07/05/2014 The Wales Report

Tonight on the Wales Report: Are victims of domestic violence in

Wales being deprived of justice because of changes to legal aid?

In a digital age, is our education failing to equip children with the

vital skills they need? And why are thousands of people

suffering from dementia fighting for the right diagnosis? Stay with us

for the Wales Report. Good evening, welcome to the Wales

Report. Our chance to look at the issues making an impact on lives in

Wales and question some of those making the decisions. On tonight's

programme: We start with the tens of thousands of people who are victims

of domestic abuse every year in Wales. But a Welsh charity is

warning that their plight could be made worse following changes to the

legal aid system by the UK Government. Welsh Women's Aid is

concerned many victims are now unable to access legal support as a

result of government reforms and, as The Wales Report has discovered,

many solicitors now don't even offer legal aid services. Mariclare Carey

Jones reports now on how this is leaving some victims in vulnerable

situations without access to the justice system.

It is the one place people should feel safe, their own homes. But more

than 50,000 women experience domestic abuse every year in Wales.

For one woman from Carmarthenshire who wants to remain anonymous, that

took the form of verbal and physical abuse I had 21-year-old son. He

wanted money from us and we said no. He got aggressive and he

pensioned me four times in the side of my head. She wants to take out a

non-molestation order to stop person coming near her or her family but

she can't afford the legal fees. Because of changes made to the legal

aid system she is finding it virtually impossible to access

financial help to pay for a solicitor. We have been able to

access legal aid in the past but now the changes have come in and we

haven't been able to access legal aid. We actually are in danger of

other lives. Do you think you have been done by the system? We do feel

we have been let down. There is no protection there for us. Financial

cuts were made to the legal aid system and for victims of domestic

violence evidence criteria was brought in. As a result, victims may

now have to see their GP to ask for a letter saying they have received

treatment following an attack. They may have to go to the police to

obtain proof that has been an injunction against Derek -- alleged

abuser. Victims, even though they may be vulnerable state, now have to

prove they have a case before they can even qualify for legal aid. The

aim of making changes the legal aid system was to reduce the annual

justice bill in Wales and in England by ?350 million. The government

promised victims of domestic abuse they were still have access to

funds. We have been given figures by the charity Welsh women's aid which

shows half of the women they serve eight have been unable to access

help in the family courts since the changes have been made last April.

It is a scary situation because to put a woman of accessing this help

and advice is a really serious issue for her safety. Seven women a year

die as a result of domestic abuse. It is life or death. According to

the charity, victims are finding it hard because getting copies of the

information they need can be difficult, time-consuming and

costly. Their survey of more than 100 women shows two thirds of

victims don't have the right evidence and of those, nearly 80%

don't know who to speak to to get it. Because of the nature of

domestic abuse in tears women were reports for various reasons, for

safety. That made it difficult for many women to prove. I you OK to

talk now? As a result of campaigning by groups like Women's Aid, some

changes were introduced the legislation last month. The

government has widened the types of evidence that are admissible. There

are claims they don't go far enough. The system still needs

clarification. It is such a complicated situation, there are so

many factors involved, it is different for everyone. It is

something we don't want to overcomplicate. We needed as good as

we can so people can be safe. Obtaining evidence isn't the only

barrier to financial support. Even if victims do qualify for legal aid

they often have trouble finding a solicitor offering it. That is

because the fees. It is have been cut in the justice reforms so many

firms no longer want to take these cases as they can make more money

doing private work. The Wales reporter contacted 20 solicitors

firms from across Wales to see if they offered legal aid and a quarter

of them told as they used to but stopped when the changes came in

because they brought in to much bureaucracy for too little money. As

a result we are told more victims are being forced to stand up in

court to represent themselves. A stressful situation for people

already feeling vulnerable. For a woman to represent herself in court

that may mean she's coming face-to-face with her user. He might

cross examiner. It is a renewed suffering for her to have to go

through that course of control and emotional abuse again. That is a

real concern for Elfyn Llwyd who sits on the Justice Committee at

Westminster. He is one of several members have been raising concerns

with the government since the changes to legal aid were still in

the planning stages. People who are experts in the field told this time

and time again when we were looking at the pre-legislative scrutiny

stage of the bill this would happen. It is now happening, we need to

address it and report the government to get them to look at it swiftly

and properly. It is feared that unless that happens, more women in

Wales will be left isolated and in danger. We are very vulnerable. It

is a basic human rights that we should be protected in our own home.

Mariclare Carey Jones reporting there. We asked Shailesh Vara, the

UK Government minister responsible for legal aid, to appear but he

declined. But the Ministry of Justice did tell us they've: they

went on to say if that is evidence that people are suffering from

domestic violence and not getting legal aid, they want to know about

it. That is the statements. Joining me now is Sian James, Labour MP for

Swansea East and former director of Welsh Women's Aid. Can we establish

one principle in terms of financing. Should legally be immune from

spending cuts? I don't think anything should be immune from

spending cuts. We have to look at costs, that is good housekeeping. We

looked at this issue when we were in government, the Labour government,

but I think when we have issues of safety and your piece to camera did

show issues to women but I am concerned about the issues of

children's safety as well. We will come onto those issues let me deal

quickly with the finance, do you think this ?2 billion bill for legal

aid, which currently exists, is an acceptable one. If it needs to come

down we can discuss where those cuts should be. A ?2 billion bill which

is very high should that be affected? I am glad I am not the

person less to decide on that. We need to make savings. If that is an

issue of peoples personal safety and security, I think we have to look --

think twice whether that is the place where we need to save money.

That is not dodging the issue. No life is worth risking any amount of

money for. Unfortunately, seven women a year do die and in the

circumstances where they are in an abusive relationship and they don't

get the support and help they need. What price can be put on that? When

you look at the new system and the charm that fact women have two give

certain elements of proof, referral from social services, they have

added to the list in the past month because they realised some of the

criteria was not sufficient. Ultimately, it is right that women

of whoever that is affected should have to provide proof of it or do

you think in some cases the proof isn't able to be offered? What used

to be in the past, 20 solicitor,, you got advice and the solicitor

informed you what evidence you needed. He collated that information

for you. That is part of the service you were accessing. Now, if you

can't access that solicitor not just because of cost, the figures show

that about 33% of women have two travel between five to 15 miles away

to find a solicitor that is offering legal aid. In Swansea East, my

constituency, we don't have one solicitor that offers that service

within my constituency. People love to travel into the next

constituency. -- people have two travel. What if you were actually in

Pembrokeshire or Carmarthenshire or mid Wales ) is a bigger challenge.

What would you like to see happening? We know that lots of

barristers and lawyers have been very unhappy with the cuts to legal

aid and they have been staging industrial action which is something

we have not been happening in that form before. What would you like to

be seen happening now? What we do know is it is not working. What we

need to be thinking about is that if a woman and her children need help,

need support and needs access services that will help ensure their

safety and the safety of their children, you shouldn't be recruited

that precluded because you can't afford them or access them. -- you

shouldn't be precluded because you can't afford them or access them. I

will be campaigning. It is a matter for the future Labour government to

look at. It is something I have been engaged in very heavily with the

current government. Ever carry on making representations on this

because I see the difference it is making to families in my

constituents, the lack of access, the expense of trying to axe is the

services and the danger, the knock-on effect it has on women and

children where these matters are resolved. Thanks for coming in

again. The extent to which our lives now

depend on technology and digital skills is increasingly clear. There

are countless government initiatives to boost digital skills and to

encourage innovation. But is our education system doing its bit? Are

schools equipping pupils with the skills they need to succeed in a

digital world? Dr Tom Crick, a leading computer scientist from

Cardiff Metropolitan University, believes children in Wales aren't

learning the specialist IT skills needed to thrive in this sector or

being taught how to utilise ground-breaking technology that's

being made right here in Wales. It is a great success story in

Wales. It is great to say made in Wales. You need to learn how to do

stuff with it so if you put it in the hands of a child, you can open

your eyes into a computing entails and the possibilities of things you

can do with programming and creativity and the broader ecosystem

of Electronics and making devices do interesting things. Learning how to

programme should be viewed as modern literacy. The future economy of

Wales is based on having the skills, workforce to attract the high-value

industry. My concern from an educational perspective for Wales is

perhaps we have missed a trick on little bit. There has been an

accepted the ICT curriculum has not been fit for purpose for what we

need now. We need to focus on things like programming, developing skills

from early age, as well as aspects of competition of thinking and

science. If this is in bedded in at primary school age, you do

programming along with mathematics and the sciences, as you start to

get through the key stages and when you start secondary it'll be normal.

We have seen significant reform and change in England and Scotland and

we know England has a new computing subject which is going to replace

ICT. We are in the curriculum review of Wales. We're not going to have

any significant change until September 2015. If we don't have a

reform of the curriculum now and changing the broader perception of

computing and technology and how important it is across all economic

sectors, this could be a big problem for the future of Wales. That was

Doctor Tom Crick there. Well, joining me now is David Jones,

founder of software development company TigerBay and a member of the

Welsh Government's information technology panel.

When you look at the complex area that you work in and the complicated

range of skills and talents needed to feed this injury -- institution

of yours, are they any good place in Wales? The fundamental issue is the

pace of change and the type of things we are doing now we were not

doing five years ago. A few days ago Wales was able to attract a

significantly better investor from the US. 150 jobs, ?40,000 the

average salary. That industry did not exist a few years ago. What we

must see from the perspective of the industry is greater peace of

development from the education system. We also need volume but also

pace. We are struggling to see that. I will come to pace in a moment and

sugar content because it is not just the speed of what is being offered

and developed, the content is important as well. We heard it was

not fit for purpose, let us start with the content, what is it not

delivering, what are schools and colleges not delivering in terms of

knowledge? These skills that we have looked at, it has been shown that in

Wales we need an additional 3000 skilled programmers each year at

least for the next three years and then it will continue to grow. There

is currently a big shortfall based on the growth we expect to see. That

falls into two different areas. Many people will work on my industry and

it will be programmers and we have to have better people coming out of

university able to be programmers but we also need to see and Tom

refers to it, greater digital literacy in areas outside of this

industry. How young an age should that begin at? And the Rhondda

Valley, they are teaching a new programme line which called Scratch

for very young children. What we need children to understand is that

the complex machinery surrounding all of us and our working lives can

be controlled. It is that complexity that goes to the heart of

computing. U2 is not too young to begin doing these things. Across

Wales and A year to, how common is that? -- year two.

It is patchy at the moment. Given that Michael Gove has

announced in England he is pushing forward with changes to the ICT

curriculum, those changes are coming, they have been mapped out,

we are not in that position in Wales, why are slower? I think that

the view of the government is that they want to take more time. Tom

Crick has written a very good piece of work with colleagues that is

available publicly but at the moment the government is reviewing that. It

is easy if you are Michael Gove to assume that the problem is almost

finished now. But I think Churchill said it is not the end, it is the

beginning, and I think that Michael Gove will find that come September

not all of the schools will be ready yet. He has sent a message out to

industry, however. That message is very clear. You have said that not

every school will be ready, but they are more advanced than we are here

and I am wondering if you think there will be any suggestion that

the Welsh Government is dragging its feet or other reasons, valid reasons

for taking our time? It will be shown to be valid if we can build

more sustainable machines that can take into consideration this deal is

that we are talking about. Michael Gault initially talked about

complacency and in Tom's report he talks about things that must move

faster and that the concern of industry, unless move quickly you

are destroyed and we want to see more of that coming out of the

education system. Thank you for joining us, David.

More than 45,000 people across Wales are grappling with the challenge of

living with dementia. But as many as two thirds of dementia sufferers are

also fighting to be officially diagnosed. Wales has the worst rates

of diagnosis compared to England and Northern Ireland, meaning many

sufferers are unable to access treatment and support when they need

it most. In a moment we'll discuss what is being done to tackle this,

but first, one couple share their first-hand experience of dementia

and the consequences of waiting for a diagnosis.

We have been living under this code for around ten years, I suppose, it

was my wife who called me ten years ago that she was not feeling very

well and she may have had a small stroke. It was three years later

before we had the final diagnosis that she had an unusual feeling of

Alzheimer's. Her site has gone. She has no spatial awareness at all and

her hands cannot grip anything. Food becomes a problem. She has lost the

ability to read and write. She has not left with very much, I am

afraid. Meanwhile, the memory, well stated that the -- whilst that did

not seem too bad to begin with, she has began to deteriorate. It is sad

to see the way that she is totally dependent on me and the carers who

looked after her. She has a shadow of her former sense. You see

glimpses of the old iron but they are getting less and less. You do

not know what is coming from day to day and that is what makes it

difficult for families, not just for me but for the children,

grandchildren and all of her friends.

That was the experience of Alan and Anne Cummings of Cardiff. The chair

of the Welsh Assembly's cross-party group Eluned Parrott joins me along

with Professor Antony Bayer. Can I begin by asking you about the rates

of diagnoses. What is your view on that and why is it happening? In

many parts of Wales only around one third of people with dementia are

receiving a diagnosis at all let alone barely enough for them to be

able to plan and manage the care of themselves in a positive and

proactive environment. We must think about how have the Northern Ireland

Assembly government been able to transform their diagnosis rates and

get up to 69% diagnosis as opposed to 69% undiagnosed. Do you know why

that is the case? They put together a strategy to target belly diagnosis

so they watch the stigma surrounding dementia because obviously it is a

very frightening diagnosis to have, but we need people to feel that it

is something they can speak to their doctor about because it is something

that they want to discuss with family and friends.

What is your view about that, Professor Antony Bayer, and the

benefits of it? One of the problems is that there is a general view that

the diagnosis is not always worth making because you cannot do much

about it, we must firstly challenge that because the diagnosis can be

made and then there are lots of positive things that can be done. In

most cases the condition Redditch United but that would not mean that

you cannot manage it well and it is certainly managing the condition

over the years that helps not just the person with dementia but makes

life easier for the family who have the burden of caring. What is the

incentive for someone to come forward, for example, the relative

with problems as they take the clear view that no matter what people's

good intentions and they even get sympathy or care, actually it is a

journey that they know well end in something very, very sad. They do

not want to go there and told they have to. Planning ahead puts you in

charge if you know what the cause of the problem is and it means that you

know the right way to actually address particular problems and you

can actually heard of many problems through planning. It gives you

access to drugs treatment which are not true that this but can help

major symptoms of many cases of dementia. It can help slow the

progression of dementia. There is a long list of positive benefits from

every diagnosis. What would you like to see the Welsh Government do as a

matter of urgency when you see the kind of projected growth rate and

people suffering from various forms of dementia, what could the Welsh

Government do that it is not doing at the moment within the financial

constraints that exists? I want to see that strategic approach to

diagnosis, a focused effort to get the diagnosis rate up here in Wales.

We know that in Cardiff, half of those with a dimension have been

able to get a cis. We have to look at capacity on memory clinics but

also the communication effort to get people to engage with their GP and

discussed this matter. You mentioned Cardiff, but there are other health

boards that are not doing as well. That is correct, some areas only

have one third of diagnosis rates. That means they are far too many

people living without the knowledge and support and the treatment that

they need to help manage their condition positively. We have to

face it, we have to help people and I think that is one of the most

important challenges. What would you like to government to do? I would

like them to give it a higher profile, there is a resource

implication because if we are seeing that we need to diagnose many

thousands of people who presently do not know what the cause of their

problems is, someone is going to have to do that and pay for that, so

there is a resource implication. On the other thing is that the

diagnosis should lead to something, so just making it and raising this

is the sticks, rubber-stamping someone with the correct label and

leaving them to it is a completely pointless exercise. Finally, the

viewers won't want to ask this question in terms of silence. What

is the latest advice in terms of lifestyle things you should consider

that will lessen your risk of developing dementia. Also as this

getting to the stage where we may have potential cures and the future?

Wales can be proud that it is leading the research and

2-dimensional, it has world-renowned experts North Wales and Bangor and

the south of Cardiff. Many of the things that we are familiar with in

terms of reducing heart disease and stroke disease, it can reduce the

risk of dementia, so what is good for the heart is good for the brain

and perhaps things like stopping smoking, more exercise, alcohol in

moderation, a healthy diet, all those things have been shown by

research in Wales to actually reduce the risk of dimensional. -- the

mention. -- dementia. That is the kind of things we can do to stop

developing a rest of the illness. Thank you both for joining me.

That's it for tonight's programme. We'll be back next week with a

special debate ahead of the European elections. In the meantime, you can

get in touch with us: Email us at: [email protected] and you can

also join in the debate on twitter: @TheWalesReport.

Thanks for watching. Good night. Nos da.