28/10/2015 The Wales Report

Many thousands will be affected by the end of the

Child Support Agency, but will those most in need be the biggest losers?

The tax credit shambles - after this week's defeat in the House of Lords,

how will the chancellor manage to lessen the impact on families?

And is the Welsh Government doing as much as it can to boost employment

Good evening and welcome to The Wales Report.

For the past 20 years, many thousands of single-parent

households in Wales have depended on the help of the Child Support

The agency is now being replaced with the Child Maintenance Service,

It operates with a different set of rules for new claimants.

The focus is on encouraging parents to settle

things amicably without outside involvement and for many there would

There are fears already that the changes will discourage the poorest

single parents from applying, as Felicity Evans explains.

For more than 20 years, the Child Support Agency has been making all

be wrong headlines. Successive other months have tried and failed to make

it work. Many single parents and their ex-partners have found the

system inefficient, inaccurate and unjust. Jane has been struggling

with the CSA 's 44-macro years her ex-husband has exploited loopholes

and has often failed to pay maintenance for their two children.

The whole process is appalling. At 1.I was ?1800 in arrears with my

rent. I was receiving solicitors letters and I have had to borrow

money from family. It is embarrassing. I don't want to place

the children in the riddle. I told them very little. Children in

single-parent families are almost twice as likely to live in poverty

as they in two-parent households. It is important that the nonresident

parents pay their fair share. The UK Government says that by 2018 the CSA

will cease to exist. The question is will things get better for estranged

couples and their children. This is how it will work. Anyone currently

receiving payments from the CSA will have their case close. They will

have to start again in the new system by ringing a helpline. They

will be in college to reach a new arrangement, but if they can't, they

will be charged to use the new service. Nearly a third of potential

applicants that they would be put off of applying because of the fee,

but the government believes that many will change their mind. But

gingerbread, a charity that campaign to single-parent families, are

concerned. It will be a stretch for single parent families, especially

with a welfare cuts and tax credit cuts. Money is tight for a lot of

families. We are not totally convinced that many he would have

applied are making their own arrangements, but if they are and

they are satisfied that is fine. We are worried that people will be put

off by the fee. But for Jane the emotional upheaval of having her

existing case closed in going back to square one is a horrible

prospect. After a very long four-year period of fighting the

CSA, how it has affected my mental health, it has put pressure on my

family. I feel aggrieved that after four years my case will be closed

down. It is disheartening and I really don't know if I have the

capacity of the fight in me any more to continue assuming this. But the

concerns don't end there. Even if you pay the CMS to come up with a

payment schedule, it will not enforce the payments unless you

asked them to, and then there will be more fees. This is for bad

payers. It is wrong that the receiving parent will lose 4% of

maintenance because the paying parent is a bad payer. It is an

unfair price that the children are having to pay. Is this a

money-saving exercise for the government? Yes. The civil service

have been open to the Public Accounts Committee about the fact

that in some ways it is a win win for them. If charges put off people

applying to the new system, they save money because it means fewer

staff and it is cheaper to run. At the same time, they have got fees

and they are banking on getting money over the next few years from

the fees and quite frankly, we have been told that they could not run

the system if they don't get the fees. The danger is that they are

just looking at the bottom line and they are not looking at what is

going to happen to children. Our fear is that a lot of parents will

come under strong pressure to make their own arrangements. Those will

fail, they will not be encouraged to think about maintenance. There is no

promotion of the new statutory service and more and more Georgian

will grow up without getting that parental support which can make a

difference. The cost savings over the next ten years will reap over

1000 ?600 million, but the setup costs are over 400 million. We did

ask for an interview with the secretary of state or a minister,

but they said no. In a statement they said that children benefit when

their parents work together to support them and it makes sense that

we encourage families to come to their own financial arrangements.

In the week that the proposed cuts to tax credits and the impact on

poor working families have dominated debate at Westminster, the UK

Government's forms of child maintenance have received little

attention. But as let's start dropping onto the dorm outs of

single-parent families in Wales, those who support them feared the

new plans may failed the most vulnerable. I have seen families in

tears over the Eurocrat ik nightmare they have been going through and I

am not confident that that bureaucratic nightmare will not

exist with the new system. Because the CSA is being closed down

gradually, it will take time to find out how much take up there will be

of the new system. But after four years of struggling through the old

one, how much faith does Jane have in the new one? I don't know how the

CMS will improve this situation for parents like myself. The whole

system is placing the onus on the parent with care to chase the

ex-partner for payment. This is about parents refusing to pay for

their children and that is why the CSA has been here, but they have

failed and I can't see any difference whatsoever with the CMS.

Remember, you can join in the discussion online.

I'm joined now by the family law specialist Lorraine Watts,

an associate with the Wendy Hopkins Family Law Practice in Cardiff.

Thank you for joining us. Our people like to be concerned and even

pessimistic about the changes? If you are a new claimants, you are OK.

Things are improving. It is taking a shorter amount of time. The fact

that the new system means they go straight to revenues and customs for

information makes things better. It is people who are dealing with the

CSA and you need to reapply who will have the rough end of the stick.

Important to clarify because a lot of people will not lead the system

in detail. When you talk about the case being closed and having to

reapply, does that mean if you have dealt with the CSA for many years

and you have an arrangement in place, that comes to an end and you

have to start a new one? That is what they are saying. They will

receive letters saying their case is closed and they need to reapply.

Surely that will cause chaos? For some people, like the lady in your

video clip, they have them through the mill. Even if the new system is

better, the thought of it puts people off, even though in reality

it might be better. We mentioned earlier that people have too pay a

fee to access this new system. It is around ?20, which for lots of people

watching may not sound very much, but what impact will it have? If you

are on a low income, ?20 is a lock. For those people they don't know how

long the process will take, what the outcome will be and how long it will

take to recoup that ?20 because if the paying parent has a low income

as well, it could take weeks. There is the cost of getting into the

system and then there is potentially the problem is someone not

cooperating. How about new system help you? Will it be more effective

than the Child Support Agency which is disappearing? I think the

enforcement will be the same. There is only so much they can do. They

already collect payment at source, it will show in your payslip. It

might encourage people to pay directly. The fact there will be a

fee of 20% added on top if you don't pay usually the mother directly. It

is a shame that there will be a 4% deduction to the recipients's money

as well. Could it not be argued that that 4% deduction will have a

negative impact on the child? It will be in a the child there is no

good for it, apart from someone going through the system just to

cross the other person 20%. That is not my experience. People just want

to receive their money every month on time and get on with their lives.

Thank you for talking to us. So this was the week,

if George Osborne's enemies are to be believed, when the Chancellor's

confident march towards Number Ten The House of Lords decided

the Chancellor's plans to cut tax credits needed serious revision,

and it inflicted a very damaging But the Chancellor

wasn't slow to respond. He railed

against the unelected nature of the Upper House, not that there's any

plan in sight to change that, and promised to look again at ways of

lessening the impact of the cuts. Unelected Labour peers have voted

down this bill. That raises constitutional issues that we will

deal with. We will continue to reform tax credits and save the

money necessary for Britain to live within its within its means.

The Conservative voice at Westminster.

But the Conservative voice here in Wales was striking a rather

different note, urging caution and a more moderate approach.

What we need to do is make sure we leave no one behind. The plans for

next April could do that. I believe that modifications are needed and

the Chancellor is in listening mode. And what do the chancellor's

Westminster colleagues make of it? With me is the Conservative MP David

Davies, chair of the Lots of people are saying we are in

some kind of constitutional crisis, but surely the House of Lords is

just doing its job? There job is to ask government to look again, but

not to throw out any measures, or financial measures. That has been

the convention for at least a hundred years. They have overstepped

the mark by doing this and they have to remember that members of

Parliament have won elections. Members of the house of lords have

not. The will of elected politicians has to be the one that prevails. But

they haven't thrown anything out. They have asked for a pause and for

some things to be looked at again. They have delayed it in such a way

to make it difficult to implement it in its original format. There was

concern over how tax credit reductions were being brought in,

albeit that they were being brought in with an increase in with an

increasing threshold for paying tax. However, unelected members of the

House of Lords have decided they are being to start blowing out bits of

government legislation they do not like. I have just been speaking to a

senior Conservative member of the House of Lords and he said the

reality is that Labour and Liberal Democrat members in particular are

angry that they lost the election. They don't see why they lost it so

badly and they are going to use the in-built majority in the House of

Lords to throw out anything they can.

Could it be they think the measure is unfair to people on low incomes

who are asked to show a burden that is not acceptable? We are going back

to the issue of tax credits. I think it was absolutely clear George

Osborne was going to come up with a transitional arrangement in the

Autumn Statement. What form should that take? What plans should come in

for people in your constituency? What is your message to them? I am a

humble backbencher and select committee chair, I do not sit in the

Treasury select cannot say what form it would take. It was an open secret

there would be a transitional arrangement brought in by the Autumn

Statement. We all know that. The Government are doing is right. We

are elected on balance the books come cannot have benefits ready out

of control. It is very well to well to Labour to say they are against it

but they also say they want to try and balance the books, maybe, I hope

you'll be asking them how they would balance the books. What services

they would cut? They are not in Government, you are in Government.

Yes, we have a duty to try and balance the books. We believe it is

wrong to spend more money than we can make. It is a projected surplus

of ?7 billion by the end of the Parliament. This measure is to save

?4 billion. You don't need to take this tax credit cut measure in order

to still have a surplus in your budget. What is it about? By the end

of the Parliament, the keywords, and we were aiming to do it early for

that we have not yet so -- succeeded at the gods -- size for borrowing

too much then the Kadcyla 's for not spending enough. We are going about

this in a sensible and reasonable fashion. And then they criticise

others. The destination we are seeking is why I support but there

were concerns, of course, that perhaps some B would lose out too

much too quickly. All of us are members and we are also elected,

including George Osborne. You are being clear, you say you also shared

his concerns? I had concerns, but all of us who are elected members of

Parliament will be in touch with our constituents all the time come

including everyone in number 11, including George Osborne. We are all

it can to me that -- and have to face are elected every five year is

and we are always listening and willing to make changes. Do you

think Mr Osborne has mishandled this? Lots of people are saying he

has handled this rather badly. What is your perspective? I think he has

handled it perfectly well. He, like all other MPs, noses comport -- it

is important that we treat everyone fairly. We asked Google for their

support and that is not the case rabbit of the House of Lords, who do

not face election, there are 850 of them. Smack for members of the house

of lords. Using their in-built majority for the Labour Party to

throw out legislation in a completely unfair fashion. It will

have to be addressed. It will either be addressed through major reform or

three huge increase in the number of Conservative members of lords being

appointed or some people are saying that we have a Welsh Assembly that

does not have a second Chamber or a Scottish parliament that does not

have a second Chamber and a brother Larry 's assembly, what is the point

of these people in your carry on like that? Ayew advocating abolition

of the eyes of lords? No, I say to the question that people are asking

and I hear it floated in the key rings. What is their purpose? In the

tea rooms. I know there are answers, I am a huge supporter of the jitters

quote the smack of the status quo. But it is upsetting and undermining

the status quo the weather behaving. To an B blues job is to oversee

things and ask to make minor amendments docking of legislation

makes me question never stop that always respected the democratic

mandate of the House of Commons that has allowed bills to pass, even with

an in-built majority from another political party that has not agreed

with the bill being passed. That has been the case for the last century

and that ended this week. Thank you. Wales has three of the 10 least

wealthy parts of the United Kingdom according to the first-ever

prosperity index published by the Legatum Institute, a public policy

think tank which measured average income per person

along with how happy people felt. The methodology has been questioned

by some Welsh Labour MPs. People living

in Anglesey have the lowest incomes while the Gwent valleys and

South West Wales are also near And wait for it -

Wales is also the least happy of the Little wonder the Wales TUC is

calling on the Welsh Government to do more to boost employment in areas

outside the cities, where private They say that new European rules

allow ministers to be more focused in the way they award contracts,

and they say the South Wales Dr Jean Jenkins from

Cardiff Business School has been to When you come to a valleys town, the

sense of people's identity and relationship to their community is

palpable. In the past, this has been portrayed as a feeling, an

unwillingness to step outside the community and look for work. People

need to get on their bikes, said Norman Tebbit, a sentiment echoed in

comments made more recently by Iain Duncan Smith. Go to Cardiff, that is

where the workers. The reality is that workers from the South Wales

valleys to travel outside their locality to work. But travelling any

distance to work is only viable if the work is reliable, hours are

predictable, rates of pay are good at transport is accessible. Look at

disadvantaged workers in the valleys communities and listen to the

practical difficulties that they face. These conditions clearly do

not apply to the sort of lower wage in unpredictable work they are most

likely to be offered in the low skilled Labour market.

The reverend Jeff only knows too well how difficult life can be for

his parishioners here when they don't have reliable work. There is

still an element of hope, an element of purpose. But there is also a

thorough dejection on occasions when we have seen initiative after

initiative that seems to have failed. The latest thing is if you

want a job, the Jobcentre will say you are prepared to travel at least

90 minutes each way to work. That is nonsense if you have children in

school, if you need to go for job interviews, that needs to be worked

in. People need quality jobs that will pay and feed a family at a

reasonable level and are not an hour or an hour and a half away. We have

relied on the private sector to remedy the situation for decades. It

has failed. The market will not address the employment problems of

the valley communities and while regeneration projects like this one

in bank Square are welcome, this alone will not be enough. So, what

is to be done? New powers over public the Kirmond were granted to

the Welsh Government in August of this year. -- public procurement.

This offers the option to bring better, secure jobs said

disadvantaged workers by reserve in public contracts for organisations

with this mission at their heart. In recent decades, private sector

employment has increasingly offered unpredictable work at low pay. Which

is no basis for life planning or even a sound basis of hope. In the

interests of the entire Welsh economy, it is surely time to change

the direction of travel for the valleys communities.

I'm joined now by Shelim Hussain - founder and director

of Cwmbran-based Euro Foods - and Alex Bevan from the Wales TUC.

Was that overly depressing? I found it a bit depressing. I have a

business in Newport for the last 24 years and now I can offer me,

watching this was very depressing. I don't think it is that bad. That is

the crucial part. What is it about the environment you are conducting

business in at the moment that you think is actually rather good? What

you need for a thriving economy like the valleys is businesses going,

private businesses going and making it happen. Every time I speak to any

ministers or anybody from the Government, I say, we don't need

hand-outs or grants, we need infrastructure. You make

infrastructure and give us the ability to do business and business

will thrive. Business goes all over the world looking for places to do

business with a can have a reliable and skilled Labour. Crucial point

about infrastructure. When we talk about infrastructure, we think of

not just the way people communicate with the way people travel. What is

your perspective on what Shirley was just saying that we concentrate on

hand-outs too much? Firstly, I think the change in the struggles to home

campaign, pushing for that in how we use that and new powers is different

to pushing for a new scheme. Different to what might be called a

hand-out or grant. It will take his -- should begin to be seen to

producing better employments of poverty and disadvantage is a temper

situation for people. If we can direct more public investment into

directly hitting the problems were those people who are disadvantaged,

young adults with qualifications, people with disabilities, that is a

better foundation for what happens the next stage for the valleys

economy. How confident are you the Welsh Government has the drive and

political will to use these powers in a way that will bring results

fairly swiftly? We think there are significant opportunities to do

something quickly on this. We met with the Welsh Government, freshman

try finance minister last week. They will establish a task force to look

at how they can make the best use of these new powers. What we have said

with that is we need pilot projects to test the concept and show can

work because we have shown a coherent and practical plan in this

work was done we have something to identify areas of funding by the

European structural funds, infrastructure budget and big pot of

procurement spend. We have said there are three areas of spending

that will happen anyway, this is committed spending, not new. This is

spending that will happen anyway, let's use it tackle the problem is

all in one place. When you talk much infrastructure, think about your

business. We want to know how you operate as a business, what is the

infrastructure spending that would make a measurable difference to the

way you conduct business? The roads and highways communications fully

staffed get to work, railways, proper bus links, sometimes it takes

longer to get some of the valley towns and go to London. That is

really frustrating. I again say that Government can put money into the

valleys and has tried to do it in the past, it has not worked. The

solution is the private sector. Make the infrastructure, deliver the

structure, and you can give business tax breaks. If a business goes to

the Vale, why should they play ?300 rates on units? To make ?300,000

rates. They will take a bite of unemployed and those people will

take -- pay taxes, the environment business friendly fist of people

will watch and say, hang on, there were problems with the private firms

being notoriously reluctant to go there. They are happy to go to

Cardiff or Newport, they're not been happy to go into the valley areas,

that is the problem. I want to send products to Birmingham. If I want to

do that, go to the Vale Comey to come to Cardiff and then go to

Birmingham. It is a 4 are journey. Give a road link since the valleys

and you will see these towns thrive. Final point, when you look

at the range of infrastructure that is needed, you have mentioned the

fact that there are spending options that were not there before. How soon

can we see a place like Eval Vale benefiting? Infrastructure takes

time. We support the development of much better infrastructure for many

of the same reasons. People are able to access better work and able to

live in the communities that they call home. In the central valleys it

is home visit and 40,000 people. One fifth of the Welsh population. -- to

640 people as. What has changed in the meantime is the world economy

for well that the impact directly on that. With globalisation and

deindustrialisation, recession and austerity, or they have wreaked

havoc in the Labour market in these areas. Infrastructure on its own

will be too late and too little. We need the investment and we want it

and we want good pay and good jobs. While you are there, we can do this

now, start to use secure employment as a foundation for the rest of the

regeneration. Support people with individual schemes that are

existing, with those schemes be better if the person had a good

employment relationship as a foundation for what happens next and

hopefully that changes the reputation for investment as well

for the valley communities. Thank you.

That's it for tonight - we'll be back next week.

And remember you can get in touch by email - the address is

Diolch am eich cwmni, nos da, good night.