18/05/2016 The Wales Report


18/05/2016

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A special edition of The Wales Report tonight -

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from Wales to Westminster and beyond.

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Here in London, the Queen opened a new session

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of Parliament against the ever-present backdrop

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And I am here at the Senedd, where Carwyn Jones was elected as the new

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First Minister amidst some robust, some might say unparliamentary,

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exchanges. Good evening ? welcome

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to The Wales Report. It's been a busy day in Cardiff Bay

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and here at Westminster, where the new session of Parliament

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was opened by the Queen, who set out the Conservative plans

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for the year ahead ? including that elusive Wales Bill,

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defining new powers We'll have more on that

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in a short while. And don't forget,

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you can join tonight s conversation on social media -

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the hashtag is thewalesreport. That Wales Bill will be a prime

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focus for the Senedd and the First Minister,

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so let s join Felicity Evans in Cardiff, where things

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have certainly moved Yes, stalemate are resolved. Carwyn

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Jones was selected, as expected, as the new First Minister but it was

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clear from today's statements that the chamber could be a bearpit for

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the new administration. Despite the deal we have heard so

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much about, Leanne Wood was not taking a particularly consensual

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approach. I am not sorry about what happened last week and I will do it

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again, if I have to make Labour realise they are running a minority

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Government. What we saw last week from that party was arrogance. It

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was complacency and what we saw was a sense of entitlement on display.

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After that, Ukip's Neil Hamilton ramped up the language several

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notches with comments that shocked some AMs. So I am afraid that these

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two ladies have just made themselves political concubines in car when --

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Carwyn Jones' harem. And what a gruesome prospect that must be.

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Let's ask ourselves what reward they have obtained for this inauspicious

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position. After a challenging first day in the Chair last week, it is

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clear the new presiding Officer Ellen Jones has the work -- her work

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cut out for her. So after the exchange of the chamber, how are

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Plaid and Labour likely to get on in this Assembly? Leanne Wood joins me

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now. Today, you and Kirsty Williams were referred to by Neil Hamilton,

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the Ukip leader, as concubines in Carwyn Jones' harem. What you make

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of that sort of language being used in the chamber? There were a number

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of sexist exchanges this afternoon, I think I counted four references to

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sexual references. We are not used to that kind of debate here in the

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National Assembly so I guess having Ukip is going to take a bit of

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getting used to, but I don't think we should be that surprised, given

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whether politics come from. Should the presiding officer have stepped

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in it? Do you regard it as unparliamentary language? I would

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like to look at the record and consider what was said and I am

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certainly planning to speak to the new presiding officer because whilst

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we saw some sex which language today -- sexist language today, what next?

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Racist language, homophobic language which where is the line going to be

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drawn? Some pretty robust language within the normal sphere of

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political dialogue from you today, calling Labour bullies, arrogant,

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complacent. Was that a smoke screen to disguise the fact that you don't

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have a very big prize to show for this week's delay in confirming

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Carwyn Jones is First Minister? This time last week, the First Minister

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could have been elected and opposed unemployed come route could have won

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nothing -- and Plaid Cymru would have won nothing, but five out of

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our key pledges, nine key pledges, I would say in one vote in one

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afternoon here, five Camry has managed to win more for the Welsh

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people than the Conservatives managed to win an entire term last

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time. With respect, you have agreed to agree on the think you had pretty

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much agreed on. That is not a great victory. That is not true, there was

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a lot of debate in the last election about the new drugs and treatments

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are. You both wanted one, they were in both manifestos, more GPs, more

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apprenticeships in the manifestos. Can I pin you down on the new drugs

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and treatment fund? Labour's proposal was not to end the postcode

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lottery, to continue with the exception allergy causes, whereby

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people would lose out on a new drug or treatment if someone in the

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vicinity have had that already. What has been agreed today is to end the

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postcode lottery and that is something the campaigners were

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calling for. We have also managed to get our national infrastructure

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commission in their hand that provides a vehicle for some of our

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other key priority is not, like the Bangor medical school. -- other key

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priorities. You also talked about the M4, what you described is unfair

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voting, the schools register, you listed the things you failed to

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achieve. The new minority Government will need another party to work with

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them to get the rest of their programme through every budget. They

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can either deal with the Ukip and the Tories, and after the smears

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that came out toward Plaid last week for just voting with those two

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parties, I would find it very difficult to see how the First

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Minister could go to those two. So why not hold out for one of the big

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prizes, for one of the things you said today you hadn't managed to get

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out of Labour? That the say about the M4, we prefer the blue route...

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But you haven't got it, after this week. I can tell you now, we will

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not agree a budget with Labour if there is any money allocated to the

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Blackwood of the M4. We have got power beyond today. What we did

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today was one of the vote to allow Labour's nomination for First

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Minister to go through. Our hands are not tied in any other way but we

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have managed to win some serious concessions. These concessions have

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been won for people, it is not about ministerial cars and salaries for

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politicians, they are games for the people of Wales. We will talk about

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how the mechanisms will work in a second but can I make sure I

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understand what you are saying about the conditionality of your support

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for the future budget for some are you saying unless the Labour party

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above the black route and go for the blue Ridge, they will not get Plaid

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Cymru support for the budget? I have said that all along, Plaid Cymru

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will not support any budget that has provision for the black route. We

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think it is expenditure, it is not acceptable and is confined to one

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part of Wales when the infrastructure investment is

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required throughout the country. So that is the totemic issue for you

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heading to the budget, the M4? We have plenty of totemic issues, a la

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manifesto includes 180 policies. Year you are not holding out for

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them all to approve the budget? We will have priorities and the M4 is

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just one contentious issue, we will have others. But you have raised

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this as the next hostage, really, haven't you? For this next minority

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Government, the passing of the budget. We stood for election on a

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manifesto of transport and change... What other key issues ahead of the

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budget? You will have to wait and see for the budget negotiations for

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that but we can see our priorities and what we oppose from this

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Government and we don't intended to change our position. So explain the

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election issue, there are representatives of Plaid Cymru,

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civil servants, but no agreement has to be reached. What is the point?

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The point is that Plaid Cymru will have an early opportunity to input

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into the Welsh Government's programme of legislation and budget

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if we so choose. And they can decide to disregard you under this

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agreement? If they decide to disregard what it is we want, they

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have to deal with another party to get their budget. So why do you need

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a liaison committee? When we have entered into budget negotiations in

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the past, the process is quite late in the day, the decisions that are

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made tend to be around ticket price items, without looking at the budget

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across all departments. This will give us the opportunity to look at

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the budget as a whole and we will be in a position to decide whether or

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not we want to allow Labour to... The liaison committee sounds like a

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fig leaf. What is the purpose? You don't have to agree anything, you

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could withhold support without a liaison committee, why have it? You

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are right. This is something that allows Plaid Cymru to get closer to

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the process, if that is what we want to do. I am determined to use the

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budgetary process and any other vehicle we can, including liaison

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committees, to get as many Plaid Cymru proposals through as possible.

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We promised to be the change Wales needs at the last election and if we

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get our programme through, Wales will see big changes as a part of

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Plaid Cymru's actions. Leanne Wood, thank you for joining

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us. This fifth Assembly isn't just different because of the presence of

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Ukip and the change in arithmetic, there is a substantial intake of new

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a.m. S. Jeremy Menez is the new a.m. For Neath, welcome to the programme

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and congratulations on your election. Today in the chamber, a

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couple of female a.m. S were referred to as concubines. What did

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you think of that language? I thought it was shocking and horrible

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for all the females in the chamber but also horrible for anybody who

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thinks that of its cares about the language in public office in Wales

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and I hope we don't hear any more of it. Some pretty robust language all

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round. Leanne Wood accusing your party of smearing, of bullying, of

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arrogance and complacency, this after week in you failed to get the

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First Minister selected. It has been a pretty humbling start, hasn't it,

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for your party? I think it has been clear from the start that although

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we were the largest party, with 29 seats and in that sense, we have the

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first opportunity to form a Government, obviously because we

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don't have a majority, we can only govern in consultation with the

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other parties. That has been clear from the start, in fact, and

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actually, what I was pleased about today is that we have got to a point

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where the Assembly has nominated Carwyn Jones as the First Minister.

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We have had a period of obviously intensive discussions between the

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Labour Party and Plaid Cymru and during those discussions, a number

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of areas of common ground have been identified and that is obviously

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very positive going forward. It will have to go on like that. You heard

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Leanne Wood say today that she was expecting concessions from Labour at

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every turn and the next hurdle would be the budget and that is the

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position your party is in as a minority Government, isn't it? What

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has been agreed as part of the deal between the two parties is the

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establishment of three liaison committees between the Government

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and Plaid Cymru as the principal opposition party, which will be

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staffed by civil servants and I think the objective of those must be

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to ensure those points of friction, if you like, are kept to a minimum,

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by having a dialogue around key pieces of legislation. It remains to

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be seen how that is going to work when you are a minority and you have

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a new, muscular opposition, effectively saying you want us to

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support your budget, you have to back down on the black route for the

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new M4, for example. You think there will be an appetite for that within

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the Labour group? It is to be seen how it plays out in the future, but

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I think what the agreement, for my money at least, has established as a

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basis on which it benefits all parties to have greater transparency

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and scrutiny of legislative powers and so I think that will be a

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benefit. You are just going to get kicked around, aren't you? We have

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seen that this week, and it is going to continue. I don't think that'll

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happen. We have an agreement where we are happy that the manifesto

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priorities we set out, read childcare, infrastructure, GPs and

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so on, all those things are things that have been identified in the as

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areas of priority. They are the low hanging fruit, the think you have

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common ground on. Coming up to the budget of the things you won't have

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common ground on, the really difficult things Angie will have to

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give some major concessions. The point of having a finance liaison

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committee for example is to make the process as soon smooth as possible

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and there has been a recognition from the start that as a Government

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with 29 seats, it doesn't give us a majority to govern and as we did in

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the last Assembly, successfully, Carwyn Jones and the Cabinet were

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able to negotiate with other parties to ensure we got programmes through.

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That happened very successfully. It was a much easier environment.

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For a minority Labour Government to navigate. Clearly from the first

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week it is clear this won won't be. The mathematics were different, but

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you heard Carwyn make it clear today that although we have 29 seats, we

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understand that we need to govern in discussion with other parties. Thank

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you very much. That was Felicity Evans with

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the latest from the Senedd there. So here at Westminster today,

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the Queen has been listing the Government's legislative

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programme for the coming term. Among the things discussed

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were prison reform, that is one of the main headlines,

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a list of some 21 measures in the Queen's Speech,

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and a mention too of that So with that in mind,

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I'm going to introduce the Wales Office Minister,

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the Conservative MP Guto Bebb. Well, I think the bill is almost

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ready to be introduced in Parliament but obviously I think

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there is a respect agenda between Westminster and Cardiff,

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and therefore it's imperative that we see the nature and the form

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of the Government in Cardiff before But I would be very confident over

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the bill being introduced Well, that's good, that

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gives us a good sense. And how confident are you that some

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of the very big concerns raised by Carwyn Jones and others

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in Cardiff will have been addressed Well, I think there has been a very

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long listening process, It didn't meet with universal

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acclaim, it is fair to say, but we did produce the bill in order

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to allow pre-legislative scrutiny, which happened,

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the Welsh Select Committee reported, various stakeholders in Wales

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indicated what they were happy with and what they

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were unhappy with. So I think a lot of the concerns

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which have been raised will be addressed, but they do need to be

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addressed on a cross-governmental basis, we need to have

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buy-in to the Wales Bill from the Welsh Government

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and therefore any delay that we now have is basically waiting

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for the new Welsh Government to indicate whether they are happy

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with the concessions and the changes But just to underline,

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that talk of the necessity test, There are some reservations

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which have been maintained but that is in relation to,

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for example, no change in the legislation in relation

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to what constitutes a murder in the United Kingdom,

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which most people would understand, Reflecting on the process itself

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and where you've got to today, are there things that should have

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been done differently? Because lots of people are saying

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that initial first offering that you brought up was clearly not

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acceptable and clearly Well, I find that criticism very odd

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because I would argue that the Wales Office did exactly

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what we should be doing in Parliament, which is to bring

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forward a proposal for discussion, Indeed, in addition to being

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a Wales Office minister, I've spent about a third of my time

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in the whip's office and many in the whip's office would argue

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that we need to do more of bringing forward proposed legislation,

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so there is an opportunity for Parliament and the wider

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population to just offer their views as to whether the legislation

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is making sense or not. So I know there have been

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criticisms of the legislation as proposed last autumn,

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but I would argue that the opportunity to comment on that

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legislation was a strength and the fact that the Wales Office

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paused and was quite happy to go back to the drawing board to make

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sure we reflected some of the concerns raised,

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that should be a positive, Well, that's a positive, Minister,

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but you know as well as I do that there was some surprise

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in the Wales Office that the opposition to that bill

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was as acute as it was. I think when you develop

:17:25.:17:28.

your own legislation, obviously there is a degree

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of ownership and no one likes to see their own work

:17:31.:17:33.

criticised in any way, But I think the previous Secretary

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of State was very open that the criticism in relation

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to the necessity test, for example, And rather than carry on with a bill

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that was getting no support from the Assembly, for example,

:17:42.:17:46.

I think the decision to pause was reflective of the feedback

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received and I think it shows a mature view of how we work

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through the issues and the challenges that

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devolution brings us. The quick point I wanted to raise

:17:56.:18:01.

from today's Queen's Speech, because there is a very significant

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element of prison reform and in North Wales, of course,

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in Wrexham, one of the most modern prisons in the world

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is about to be opened. Why isn't Wrexham then on the list

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of the six prisons that are going to get this new experiment,

:18:13.:18:15.

giving governors much more autonomy? Well, I think the reason

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for that is that Wrexham is already building up on best practice already

:18:19.:18:20.

within the prison sector. I think everybody acknowledges

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that there is a need to look again at the way in which we are reforming

:18:24.:18:26.

and helping people to reform The broader context

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of the Queen's Speech, I don't think anyone will deny

:18:30.:18:48.

that we have a big European context, This week, we have had

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Lord Heseltine making a very, very strong attack on Boris Johnson,

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just again underlining the depth of the divisions

:18:56.:18:57.

in your party as you approach it. You have got five

:18:58.:19:00.

weeks of this to come. How concerned are you that the party

:19:01.:19:02.

is actually tearing Well, I think tearing ourselves

:19:03.:19:04.

apart might be slightly overstating it, but it is undoubtedly

:19:05.:19:08.

an uncomfortable period The Conservative Party

:19:09.:19:10.

is neutral on this issue, I'm bound to wonder as well,

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Minister, you know, how possible When you look at the kind

:19:14.:19:23.

of antipathy that is evident now in this debate, how much

:19:24.:19:27.

of a problem is it going to be for people to come together

:19:28.:19:30.

after this campaign? Well, I think first of all,

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all colleagues need to reflect upon their use of language,

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because I think that is unfortunate. We do need to make sure that we show

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respect to each other's arguments. There are people on both sides

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of this argument who are very strong in their views but they are doing it

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with a degree of respect towards each other,

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and we will have a huge job in putting the party back together

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after this referendum. But I don't think that's beyond any

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of the realms of possibility. I think we have a very strong view

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that the Conservative Party has a further four years

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in Government and when this referendum is done and dusted,

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it is imperative that we move on, as this Queen's Speech has shown,

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quite clearly, with a positive So I would say to everybody,

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you know, calm down We have our views but

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they should be expressed Minister, we will talk again,

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I hope, during the campaign. So after all the events

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of the past few weeks, we now have a new government

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in Cardiff Bay, a first minister elected and

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the political focus is fully engaged on the EU referendum

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in five weeks time. Here on the Wales Report,

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we ll spend the next few weeks looking at some

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of the main factors ? with a series of special

:20:29.:20:31.

reports and interviews. And tonight we ll start

:20:32.:20:33.

with agriculture, because the farming industry is not only

:20:34.:20:36.

important to Wales it s also been heavily dependent

:20:37.:20:39.

on EU subsidies under the Common Agricultural

:20:40.:20:42.

Policy or CAP, which eats up an enormous 39%

:20:43.:20:45.

of the current EU budget. Felicity Evans has been to meet

:20:46.:20:47.

two farmers on opposing This year's lambing season was as

:20:48.:20:59.

ever a busy time for Welsh hill farmers. Brian has been farming for

:21:00.:21:07.

most of his life and he has received EU subsidies for most of the the

:21:08.:21:12.

time. Sheep and cattle are the most common type of farming in Wales and

:21:13.:21:18.

most get that support. Many worry if Britain leaves the EU that support

:21:19.:21:24.

would be lost. But leave campaigners say the UK Government would replace

:21:25.:21:29.

the subsidies. But the uncertainty worries Brian. He said it would be

:21:30.:21:33.

hard to stay in business without them. Not unless the price of the

:21:34.:21:37.

products we are selling would have to double to be able to sort of

:21:38.:21:44.

factor in the cost of producing it. I mean we are told that if we are

:21:45.:21:51.

exit that we will have a support. But what? Nobody's telling us what.

:21:52.:21:56.

There is money set aside for it, but what? We don't know. But some

:21:57.:22:02.

sectors of the industry don't receive any subsidies, poultry and

:22:03.:22:07.

pig farming for example. There are not many pig farmers in Wales, but

:22:08.:22:12.

Ken is one. He thinks British farmers would be better offoutside

:22:13.:22:18.

the EU and those who receive subsidy would learn to survive without it.

:22:19.:22:25.

Like he has to. As a pig producer we get no support, not that we are

:22:26.:22:30.

looking for support. What about your colleagues who say you may not get

:22:31.:22:35.

subsidies, but we do and they are important and they come from the EU.

:22:36.:22:42.

If nay lose their subsidies they will re-evaluate and a year or 18

:22:43.:22:47.

months they then will move forward. Wales two farming unions have in

:22:48.:22:51.

favour of Britain remaining in the EU. That is not just about

:22:52.:22:56.

subsidies, but the single market, the core principle of the freedom of

:22:57.:23:00.

movement of goods and services, this is the idea that Welsh producers

:23:01.:23:04.

have unfetterred access to consumers on the continent. But some say the

:23:05.:23:09.

single market is far from a level playing field. We are breeding

:23:10.:23:19.

ourselves and we keep them in straw that is comfortable and keep it as

:23:20.:23:26.

natural as can. Ken has concern about welfare standards in other EU

:23:27.:23:33.

states. Not only do standards here be higher, but he thinks the EU

:23:34.:23:40.

standards are not enforced, making it harder for him to compete with

:23:41.:23:45.

European farmers. So Ken wants out of single market so that the UK

:23:46.:23:49.

government can have more control over the sort of pork products being

:23:50.:23:55.

import. The standards in Europe basically is that mainly they

:23:56.:23:59.

packing as much as they can into a unit. So that the growing pigs have

:24:00.:24:04.

less movement. They don't have straw. So they're on concrete. It is

:24:05.:24:10.

bad for their joints and it is not comfortable. It is like us sleeping

:24:11.:24:16.

on a concrete floor. So obviously, with, they do that just to keep

:24:17.:24:21.

labour costs down and pipe food in and I think that there should be

:24:22.:24:26.

more regulation to come in. More control. And specially the welfare

:24:27.:24:35.

standard. Ken doesn't export any of his pork. He competes for British

:24:36.:24:39.

customers. But his business is different. He exports his lamb to

:24:40.:24:45.

the EU. He says the single market is vital. Some who support a British

:24:46.:24:51.

exit argue we could leave the EU and still negotiate continued access to

:24:52.:24:55.

the single market. But Brian doesn't like the uncertainty. Well the key

:24:56.:25:03.

reasons is we have got 500 million consumers of our produce in Europe

:25:04.:25:11.

and 80 to 90% of lamb I'm producing go to Europe, the market place. It

:25:12.:25:17.

is on your doorstep. It is something that I feel is critical in

:25:18.:25:23.

agriculture in Wales. If there was facts and guarantees on the table

:25:24.:25:29.

signed deals to say our market is still there, and we know what we are

:25:30.:25:35.

doing, where we are going, maybe I would consider a few different

:25:36.:25:39.

avenues. But none of that is in place. And I think it is ludicrous

:25:40.:25:48.

to exit the EU when we don't know what we will have. For Brian the

:25:49.:25:53.

single market means an open door to 27 other countries. But for Ken, it

:25:54.:25:58.

means competition from those other countries here at home. For farmers,

:25:59.:26:04.

what they're selling and where they're selling it may well dictate

:26:05.:26:06.

their views on EU membership. I'm joined now by the Conservative

:26:07.:26:10.

MP David Davies on behalf of Vote David, was that a fair summary of

:26:11.:26:27.

the debate about the EU in the context of farming in Wales?

:26:28.:26:31.

Couldn't give ten out of ten to that one. It is all well to concentrate

:26:32.:26:36.

on subsidies, but there are a lot of sheep and lamb and cattle farmers

:26:37.:26:41.

who want to come out of the EU. And everyone's confident that even if we

:26:42.:26:46.

come out, some form of subsidy will continue at the same level as it is

:26:47.:26:50.

now, because we would have more money and could double the subsidies

:26:51.:26:54.

if we came out. Other nobody is suggesting that. The Prime Minister

:26:55.:26:59.

said he would guarantee the subsidies. You could have spoken to

:27:00.:27:07.

a sheep or cattle farmer and I put you in touch with plenty. The point

:27:08.:27:15.

it is not one thing, subs idies have been a focal point of the debate for

:27:16.:27:20.

many years. What did you think of the cases there? What was

:27:21.:27:25.

interesting was what Brian said about the uncertainty. I must take

:27:26.:27:31.

issue that you say there would be certainty that the subsidy would

:27:32.:27:34.

continue. That is where the leap into the dark is occurring. There is

:27:35.:27:38.

no guarantee whatsoever that these subsidies would continue and we are

:27:39.:27:42.

looking at a situation and both of the farming unions in Wales are

:27:43.:27:47.

saying this, you look back over the last 20 years, 40 years, we have got

:27:48.:27:53.

Governments have been in favour of reducing the Common Agricultural

:27:54.:27:56.

Policy budget. Would they continue subs dips at the same level and also

:27:57.:28:02.

at liberalising food imports. This faith here if the farming industry

:28:03.:28:08.

were to find itself in a situation where Britain leaves Europe, there

:28:09.:28:12.

is real uncertainty as to whether they would be support and 80% of

:28:13.:28:21.

farmers in Wales, the majority are sheep and cattle farmers and are

:28:22.:28:28.

dependent on the CAP. The figures are interesting in 2015 UK farmers

:28:29.:28:35.

received over euro 3 billion in direct support, in Wales I have a

:28:36.:28:45.

figure for the single payment scheme in 2013 ?250 million. Those are big

:28:46.:28:50.

sums and in a context where we have a Government with big financial

:28:51.:28:54.

challenges, surely no one is in position to give guarantees that

:28:55.:29:00.

subsidies would continue. No one can guarantee they can continue when the

:29:01.:29:05.

next round of CAP comes around. But they have existed for decades. They

:29:06.:29:10.

existed for decades before we came into the EU, since the Second World

:29:11.:29:14.

War there have been subsidies. Perhaps we should be talking to

:29:15.:29:18.

other sheep and cattle farmers who have different opinions on this. But

:29:19.:29:22.

the other important was about the free market. Actually it is not a

:29:23.:29:29.

case of some Brexit people suggest we would get a free trade agreement.

:29:30.:29:34.

Everyone is certain we would, because it is more in the interests

:29:35.:29:38.

of the EU to have that agreement than for us to have it with them.

:29:39.:29:42.

The problem is the uncertainty isn't there. It is not a case of people

:29:43.:29:46.

saying, other certain that would be the case, when people who would be

:29:47.:29:50.

in a position to offer the deal are saying, oh, hang on, you know, there

:29:51.:29:56.

could be consequences. Are the French Government to say to French

:29:57.:30:00.

wine makers and say you're out of work and can't export to the UK or

:30:01.:30:06.

the Danish say that to pig producers and others say that to their beef

:30:07.:30:12.

producers. We are spending three times as much on food imports from

:30:13.:30:17.

the EU as we export. The funny thing is it would be in interests of

:30:18.:30:22.

farmers if there was no agreement. On the point of exports, 90% of beef

:30:23.:30:30.

and lamb export from Wales goes to EU. The NFU has been looking at the

:30:31.:30:39.

nature of trade agreements and Breck sit have been talking about the free

:30:40.:30:45.

trade agreement. There is only effective when they have that 100%

:30:46.:30:52.

payment. When that is reduced, they lose between 8,000 and 20,000 pounds

:30:53.:30:57.

a year. That is not necessarily as good as it seems unless we have the

:30:58.:31:03.

subsidies in place. The concept about uncertainty, because there

:31:04.:31:07.

will be farmers watching and I thought the point made about having

:31:08.:31:13.

facts and certainty is something we will hear more about, hopefully we

:31:14.:31:18.

as media and journalists can provide some facts. The uncertainty, what

:31:19.:31:23.

you're asking is for some farmers to take a leap in the dark and take a

:31:24.:31:28.

step towards an uncertain future. What would you say? No, it is pure

:31:29.:31:35.

common-sense that it is in the interest of everyone to have a free

:31:36.:31:40.

trade agreement. We don't need a free trade agreement to trade. We

:31:41.:31:44.

are doing more trade with America, but we don't have a free trade

:31:45.:31:51.

agreement. It is a conceit to suggest that politicians, the MPs

:31:52.:31:54.

are responsible for all the trade between countries. We are not

:31:55.:31:57.

responsible. People get together and buy and sell things all the time. We

:31:58.:32:01.

sometimes make it easier. But we should have a free trade agreement

:32:02.:32:04.

with Europe. Everyone agrees that and it that it would be possible,

:32:05.:32:12.

including people like Lord Kerr, the former UK ambassador to the EU. They

:32:13.:32:16.

say it is straight forward to do that. The problem is you were part

:32:17.:32:21.

of what they call project fear, you are simply there to say it is going

:32:22.:32:26.

to be terribly dangerous and uncertain you shouldn't consider

:32:27.:32:29.

this step. It is all to do with trying to give people cause for

:32:30.:32:34.

concern. The reality is there is uncertainty and that it will be a

:32:35.:32:38.

political decision that would resolve whatever situation we arrive

:32:39.:32:41.

in, following the referendum. You have got to look then, make a

:32:42.:32:46.

serious disigs and think -- decision and think is there a political

:32:47.:32:52.

decision in terms of agriculture that result in farmers increase Ogg

:32:53.:32:58.

decreasing their income. We will see that replaced by this Government,

:32:59.:33:01.

the Tory Government, I don't believe that? David Cameron has made it

:33:02.:33:07.

clear we would be and the real uncertainty is what will happen if

:33:08.:33:11.

we continue in the EU and no guarantee of subsidies and that we

:33:12.:33:15.

will increase trade, our trade with the EU is diminishing. We will be

:33:16.:33:18.

back I guarantee that. Of course course We'll of course be coming

:33:19.:33:29.

back to the forthcoming EU referendum over

:33:30.:33:31.

the coming weeks with a series of special reports

:33:32.:33:33.

and interviews and there will be a special debate

:33:34.:33:35.

in the week before the vote. If you'd like to get in touch

:33:36.:33:38.

with us about that or anything else, email us

:33:39.:33:41.

at [email protected], or follow us on social media ?

:33:42.:33:42.

we re @TheWalesReport. We'll be back next week,

:33:43.:33:44.

thanks for watching.

:33:45.:33:47.

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