11/05/2016 The Wales Report


11/05/2016

Felicity Evans presents a special programme from the Welsh Assembly as the new AMs meet for their first full session in the Senedd.


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Transcript


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Unprecedented scenes at the Senedd. There is deadlock over who will be

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the new First Minister. Nobody seems to want to back down. The only thing

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that has been resolved is who will be the group leader of Ukip, it will

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be Neil Hamilton. We will hear from them. Stay tuned to The Wales

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Report. Good evening. Welcome to The Wales

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Report. What a date has been here at the Senedd. After last week's

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assembly elections, labour was the largest single party, everyone

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assumed that Carwyn Jones was a shoo-in for the post of First

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Minister. They were wrong. We would like to join in on this

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conversation. Here is the hashtag. Today has been full of surprises. We

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got all the drama would centre around the election of the Presiding

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Officer and Deputy Presiding Officer. Elin Jones and Ann Jones

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Gorelick -- elected with relative little fuss. There were reports that

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a Leanne Wood would challenge Labour's Carwyn Jones for the

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position of First Minister, that was what happened in the end. The Tories

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and Ukip supported her, leaving the two candidates deadlocked at 29

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votes each. And what was by anyone's reckoning a challenge for the new

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Presiding Officer, Elin Jones was left but with no choice to adjourn

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proceedings. Well, Johnny May now, Labour's Aled Davies, Darren Millar

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from the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru's Simon Thomas. Simon Thomas,

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Labour was the largest party in last week's election. Why did Plaid Cymru

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nominate a Leanne Wood? The largest party but not commanding

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the majority. We believe that Leanne Wood was the best candidate for

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First Minister. It is important both for the assembly as a parliament and

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for politics in Wales that there is a genuine challenge to Labour's

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assumption of going into a minority government. Carwyn Jones says he

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wants to form a minority administration, they could do that

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also. It is a legitimate thing. We can challenge him. We have the

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support of other parties in the assembly. In that sense, we have

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wider cross party support. But the support of the parties you

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got ready to Tories and Ukip. The parties which Leanne Wood that

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falters only I during the election campaign about and told them that in

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no circumstances would she do deals with them.

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There is no deal, this is about the election of the First Minister and

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it is heavily entitled for those parties and they can justify it for

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themselves as to why they wanted a challenge in the assembly and to

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ensure that there was a proper election and challenge in the

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assembly. This is pure theatre, they were not

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expecting downward to get elected and then have to abide to be in the

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hands of two parties she promised not to work with? This is poor

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theatre, is it? Now it is not. This is about the

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assembly making its choice for the election of First Minister. The

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people of Wales want a good First Minister.

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Was Leanne Wood breaking Hogwarts to the voters to be First Minister?

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It is a real attempt to be First Minister.

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She wants to be any hands of Ukip and the Tories?

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The first thing is to get the confidence of the old assembly. It

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is important that today we noticed that Leanne Wood did not get a

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majority vote, we except that. But the Labour Party must accept they

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did not get the majority vote for the assembly. All parties must go

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away and think about how they can elect a government that can, and the

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wider support within the assembly. Aled Davies, Labour did not work

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hard enough to get through this vote, did they?

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Many people will be incredulous at what we have just heard. Plaid Cymru

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voters were told that they would never come to any sort of deal with

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the Conservative Party Aubert Ukip. That is what they were told.

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But what about how the Labour Party have approached this?

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On the very first opportunity in this new December, Plaid Cymru have

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looked the voters in the eye and broken their word. That is something

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that is a fundamental breach of trust in our democracy.

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Why did you not work harder to support the first Mr's election

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today? I think Carwyn Jones has a clear

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mandate to be First Minister. He does not have a clear mandate

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committee is the largest party but he does not have a clear mandate.

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No party has more than half of the seats that Welsh Labour have. We

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have a clear mandate to govern, but how we govern it a different matter

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and I except that you have to govern differently as a minority than you

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would do with a majority. We accept and understand that. However, we

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have a clear mandate to be in government and to lead government.

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If the other parties you want to ignore what the people of Wales said

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last week, put aside the promises they made...

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In the first test of that, you have failed to do it by even securing

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support for the First Minister and get him through.

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We spoke to Plaid Cymru, they were not interested. Kirsty Williams

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voted according to her principles. She said before the election last

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week, we will not vote with Ukip and the Conservatives. She kept to her

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principles. Plaid Cymru went against their principles. The electorate can

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look at that. The Welsh Labour Party is committed to working and to win

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the referendum on Europe in a few weeks' time to ensure...

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That is a completely different story. You do not have a government

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jet, maybe you should focus on that first.

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To focus on the future of the steel industry, a jobs plan, to ensure

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that we have employment in Wales, to focus on our communities.

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You will not do any of that if you are not in government. Darren

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Millar, why did you throw your bottom with Plaid Cymru? You are not

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natural bedfellows, are you? The Labour Party does not have any

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divine right to rule in Wales. It walks around with its chest out,

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particularly the First Minister, trying to suggest that it has a

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mandate to be able to govern Wales for the next five years and clearly

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it does not. Today we have shown that it cannot take the Senate for

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granted. This is about bringing them down a

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peg or two? Not really. We have always said that

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we believe Wales would be better off with an alternative to a labour

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government. We are prepared to work with whoever else we need to work

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with to make that happen. What do you want in Plaid Cymru to

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end this deadlock? What can Labour offer you?

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Firstly, they have not offered us anything. Neither have the other

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parties. We told the Labour Party yesterday that we would nominate

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Leanne Wood for First Minister. It was Carwyn Jones decision to go

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ahead today. He did not get the support... We will not be having

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negotiations in public. But we will be open to speak with other parties

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in that sense and he will understand what other parties think...

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Agreement on what? Help? We can not do it publicly, because

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when we do have those discussions, you will understand what is

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happening. Darren Millar's point is very important. Labour did not get

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that vote. Any government which is elected by this assembly, it will

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have to be a minority government reliant upon reaching out to other

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parties. We except that at Plaid Cymru. The Labour Party has not

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accepted that. I said that in answer to your first

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question. What they bought today does it gives

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some breathing space for people to deflect on where things are at. It

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lets them think about a strategy for getting a government together. All

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parties must consider their approach to these things. At the end of the

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day, the Labour Party got it hopelessly wrong assuming that

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Carwyn Jones would be able to walk into the job of First Minister and

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from the government. It is incumbent upon all parties to reflect at where

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they are and as I have said, we will look at how some sort of arrangement

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can be ironed out so that we can have an alternative to what has been

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a pure River Clyst -- administration for the last five years.

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Alun Davies, it is a different environment for the Labour Party

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this time around, that much is clear today. What are you prepared to

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offer to get one of these other parties on side so that you can

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actually form a government? I am not in a position to make those

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offers on this programme this evening. I would expect all

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politicians of all political parties to deliver on the promises they made

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to the electorate last week. One week ago people voted to elect a new

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government in Wales. In my constituency and in many others,

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Plaid Cymru made it clear they would not under any circumstances do a

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deal with the Conservatives. On the first opportunity they have, they

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have broken that promise. You are fighting an old war. What do

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you want to do? What I want to do is to do what we

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were elected to do. To protect the steel industry. We will protect the

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jobs of people. Not if you are not in government.

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That is what people elected Labour government to do.

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But they have not elected a Labour government.

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We have a clear mandate to govern. If people want to reject that, that

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is their right. I would be delighted to face the electorate again on this

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matter and ask if they would vote for me who kept my word. Or vote for

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Plaid Cymru who broke their work at the first opportunity they had.

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There has not been a deal between Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives.

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But there would have to be if you would indefinitely support Leanne

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Wood as First Minister. We have had a vote, there has been a

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logjam, both sides are at loggerheads and that gives some

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breathing space for everyone to reflect upon the positions and icy

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weather there is an opportunity of a different sort of government in

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Wales, what I believe is needed. What is your response to the point

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made by Aled Davies that there are serious issues facing Wales and that

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which ever way it works, it is the will of the electorate that some

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sort of government is formed and that these sort of delays, whilst

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they might be entertaining for people with political interest like

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myself who came there to watch today, it is all theatre and that

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what we need is a government who can get on with substance. You have to

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read that, what you say to -- Alun Davies.

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It is not all theatre. We have UK Government trying to sort out the

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steel prices and working hard. Oliver parties are working with the

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UK Government to get the best outcome for the people who are

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having their jobs under threat to the various Tata Steel sites. We

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continue to do that regardless of how politics to form a government.

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Briefly, Simon Thomas, 28 days to elect a First Minister, will it take

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that long can be resolved it next week?

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I am sure we can resolve it quickly. week?

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There is still a First Minister but it needs other parties to speak to

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each it needs other parties to speak to

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grace to have those it needs other parties to speak to

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the proper recognition that this is a new parliament with the proper

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challenge to the Labour Party. This is pure theatre and those

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people did not vote for those things.

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Thank you all for joining me. The one opposition am who did

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support Carwyn Jones for the post of First Minister was Kirsty Williams.

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She is the sole Lib Dem in the chamber and she joins me now.

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Welcome to the programme and thank you for joining us. What is your

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view as to what happened in their today?

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I think it is not the finest today?

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for the assembly. This is a very serious issue in forming a

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government to take Wales forward. We have the steel industry that is

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under threat at the moment, we have immense pressure in our National

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Health Service. There are many Health Service. There are many

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things that the people of Wales meet the government to do to get

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things that the people of Wales meet carry out. I was not sent here to

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support a rag coalition, including Ukip. That is not my politics. I do

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not want that Ukip. That is not my politics. I do

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what happens here in Wales and therefore, I voted for what I

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what happens here in Wales and proposition of a government. I do

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not Plaid said they did not do a deal,

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they simply put Leanne Wood up as a candidate. Do you see a way of

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resolving this? I have the utmost respect for Leanne Wood and she

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personally had an amazing result in winning the Rhondda seat, but the

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reality is with the number of seats that Plaid has got, they cannot be a

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government that Plaid has got, they cannot be a

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believe that Leanne Wood thinks that either. They can only be a

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government if that includes working with the Conservatives and Ukip.

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Throughout this campaign Leanne said she was not prepared to do that, so

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I am not sure what today has been about. What I do

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I am not sure what today has been party is the Labour Party. I wish

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I am not sure what today has been was different, but it is not and we

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had to create a government to take Wales forward over the next 5 years.

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Did you do a deal with Labour to give them your vote?

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Did you do a deal with Labour to done a deal with the Labour Party.

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My decision today was based on the reality of the election result and

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My decision today was based on the will not do a

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My decision today was based on the said, a ragbag coalition that

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My decision today was based on the influence to Ukip. It is not

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politics and I will not do it. I understand that, but just to

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clarify, we should not be expecting to see you in the Cabinet, assuming

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we get a cabinet. I met with Carwyn Jones and Leanne Wood and Andrew

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Davies. But no, the basis of my vote was not based on that. The drama was

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around Ukip and its new leader. Neil was not based on that. The drama was

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Hamilton was elected. It was a big disappointment for Nathan Gill, who

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only last week led disappointment for Nathan Gill, who

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greatest ever electoral success. Jonny May now is the new Ukip

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greatest ever electoral success. Neil Hamilton. Thank you for joining

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us. Would now be an appropriate time for you to pay tribute to Nathan

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Gill to leading for you to pay tribute to Nathan

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electoral success? Nathan Gill remains the leader of Ukip in Wales.

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Nothing has changed there. We have just formed a group under the

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Assembly rules and elected a leader. It is horses for courses. I am not

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Assembly rules and elected a leader. challenging Nathan Ford

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Assembly rules and elected a leader. people put a lot of

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Assembly rules and elected a leader. the campaign and we scored a

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stunning success. That is its own reward. He might feel a little

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rueful of the reward he has had. Some people think it is a bizarre

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way to reward the successor. David Rowlands compared it to be sacking

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at Leicester of Ron Young. These analogies are not helpful. I ran an

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election campaign for Ukip myself, I ran the European campaign, and what

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is relevant for the campaign trail is not necessarily relevant indeed

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dogfight of an Assembly chamber, such as we have here. I have been a

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long-time member of Parliament, a cabinet minister, a member of the EU

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Council. I have a depth and range of experience no 1 else has. I don't

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know why in individual cases people voted for me. Things must be

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uppermost in their -- uppermost in their mind. You came out of a group

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meeting today. How would you describe it? We were consensual and

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United. There will be no problem going forward. No factions? Nathan

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Gill is happy with you? You will have two asking that. I would be

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surprised if he is completely happy with me, but of course he is

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disappointed. I understand that. I have experienced the hurly-burly of

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political life in a way that few others have in the cause of my

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lifetime. You have to get on with it and make the best of it. Lick your

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wounds and fight another day. The Ukip UK leader Nigel Farage has

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described what happened to Nathan Gill as unjust and criticise those

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who voted for you and you for putting your name forward,

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demonstrating ingratitude. Nigel has said many disobliging things about

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me. Do you have respect for Nigel Farage as the leader of Ukip? Let us

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give him his due. We would not be having a referendum on the EU if it

:18:35.:18:40.

was not for him and the driving force that he provided to make out

:18:41.:18:46.

of nothing a fully fledged political party which in Wales holds the

:18:47.:18:49.

balance of power in this building. Ukip is Ed Balls to be reckoned with

:18:50.:18:56.

in the country as a whole. Yes, I take my hat off to Nigel Farage in

:18:57.:19:00.

that respect. I have had many disagreements and run-ins with him,

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but so did I with John Major when I was a minister in his government,

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and I was a member of the Thatcher government and people have issues

:19:11.:19:14.

with her. But we were part of a winning machine under the Tories. So

:19:15.:19:27.

no and other split? That is the force antithesis. So you are both on

:19:28.:19:35.

the same page? You described shaking each other warmly. I do have a sense

:19:36.:19:42.

of humour that not everyone appreciates. It was in response to a

:19:43.:19:46.

provocative question from a journalist. Mr Farage tried to stop

:19:47.:19:55.

your nomination. Yes, he did. And Nathan Gill has been usurped by you?

:19:56.:20:06.

He has not. It would be a natural conclusion that the man who led his

:20:07.:20:11.

party to victory would be the leader. He has been the 1 in the

:20:12.:20:20.

debate, not you Mr Hamilton. Bless it are those who expect nothing, as

:20:21.:20:27.

the saying goes. Will you be an asset to the party? We will see in

:20:28.:20:33.

due course. I think I will be. I have been a government whip, I know

:20:34.:20:40.

the way in which deals are done in a parliament where there is no overall

:20:41.:20:44.

control. There will be a lot of negotiation. But you are tainted by

:20:45.:20:52.

cash for questions. This is 20, 30 years old. It is ancient history.

:20:53.:20:57.

Serious allegations which you put before a libel jury and they found

:20:58.:21:03.

against you. We have just fought an election. I was voted as the leader

:21:04.:21:11.

candidate. I was then elected by the electorate in mid- wells to be the

:21:12.:21:16.

Assembly member. I have now been elected by the majority of

:21:17.:21:18.

colleagues in this place to be their leader. You said your previous

:21:19.:21:26.

Parliamentary experience... Can I just finish this point. I went

:21:27.:21:34.

through a 2-year top Inland Revenue investigation of my financial

:21:35.:21:38.

affairs over 10 separate tax years as a result of the patch your

:21:39.:21:46.

questions. The Inland Revenue's top forensic accountants were involved.

:21:47.:21:54.

I emerged from that with the Inland Revenue concluding there had not

:21:55.:21:58.

been illicit payments to me in any shape or form. Those allegations are

:21:59.:22:03.

baseless. They are now ancient history. They were discussed in

:22:04.:22:08.

court and the jury found against you. You ended up bankrupt. You

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refer to your previous experience is putting you in good stead for this

:22:15.:22:18.

role and your previous experience led to your disgrace. Well, I have

:22:19.:22:27.

been retraced by this election. You have been all fighting like cats in

:22:28.:22:36.

the sack through this campaign. You said we would make life interesting.

:22:37.:22:41.

You certainly did, and that is the basis of this question. Will it

:22:42.:22:45.

continue to be interesting, or will you bring coherence? It's not about

:22:46.:22:55.

that, there is a natural cohesion. We are a form bands, which is the

:22:56.:23:00.

nature of the institution and we will get on together very well. We

:23:01.:23:05.

will have disagreements from time to time and when you are fighting

:23:06.:23:12.

against others for a position, that tends to leave a few scratches and

:23:13.:23:16.

scars. But I have been through this many times in the last 30 years in

:23:17.:23:21.

Parliament and in politics generally and I can assure you there is much,

:23:22.:23:25.

much more that unites us than divides us. After June 23, what is

:23:26.:23:34.

Ukip for? If we as a nation vote to leave the unit, there will 1st of

:23:35.:23:37.

all B overriding need to keep the government honest on delivering what

:23:38.:23:44.

the people want. But you would have achieved jaw goal. The British

:23:45.:23:51.

people would have agreed with you. Your fox would be shot. No, the fact

:23:52.:23:59.

we vote to leave does not mean the government will deliver on the deal.

:24:00.:24:03.

There has been many referenda held in Europe where people thought that

:24:04.:24:10.

the Brussels bureaucrats came to the wrong answer and those people were

:24:11.:24:13.

obliged to vote again and produce the right answer. There will be a

:24:14.:24:19.

cosmetic deal that the political elite will pull together to convince

:24:20.:24:24.

people that all the things that were wrong have been made right and it

:24:25.:24:29.

will be a lie. If there is a Remain votes, your primary reason for

:24:30.:24:34.

existence for have been rejected. No. We won't ignore the referendum

:24:35.:24:40.

result, but we said we will carry on the fight, in the same way that the

:24:41.:24:45.

Scottish National Party are doing in Scotland. Will all continue to be

:24:46.:24:50.

about Europe? You have no intention of bringing a policy platform in

:24:51.:24:54.

Wales and establish Ukip as an integral part of the evolution? It

:24:55.:25:00.

will all be about Europe? You may not have had the chance to read the

:25:01.:25:06.

manifesto we stood on June the election. I will give 1 to you after

:25:07.:25:13.

this interview. You did not mention apprenticeships... The whole 20

:25:14.:25:19.

default areas of policy, we put forward a full range of policies

:25:20.:25:25.

which were different from the other parties and... So what is the 1

:25:26.:25:28.

thing you would like to achieve from your manifesto in the cause of this

:25:29.:25:32.

new Assembly. How should we judge you in terms of your performance

:25:33.:25:38.

here as you can leader in the next 5 years? What will be the thing? There

:25:39.:25:43.

is not 1 individual thing, there are lots of things. I would like to

:25:44.:25:47.

introduce democracy in a way that the whole service is run. It is

:25:48.:25:53.

failing in many ways and it is wrong. The way we treat cancer

:25:54.:25:57.

patients is appalling in comparison to England. We would like to

:25:58.:26:03.

introduce democracy by having elected representatives on health

:26:04.:26:08.

boards. We would like to scrap the tolls on the Severn Bridge. Can you

:26:09.:26:14.

commit to 1 of those and said this will be the thing. This is the Tete

:26:15.:26:20.

mik issue other than Europe, as Ukip in the Welsh Assembly. I don't know

:26:21.:26:24.

what we can achieve in 5 years because we are only 7 out of 60

:26:25.:26:29.

members. We will do their best we can. Not the balance of power then?

:26:30.:26:35.

Certainly be well. You can't have it both ways. Maybe you will be

:26:36.:26:40.

influential and tell us what you will achieve, or you won't. No.

:26:41.:26:46.

Because we do have the scope to hold the balance of power, we will be

:26:47.:26:50.

able to trade our votes for some of the things which are in our

:26:51.:26:54.

manifesto. I can't tell you what they are because I don't know what

:26:55.:26:59.

will be possible in individual circumstances. I have lived through

:27:00.:27:02.

a period when a government did not have a majority and individual

:27:03.:27:11.

members of Parliament help the government to ransom. -- held the

:27:12.:27:15.

government to ransom. I can assure you I will drive a hard bargain in

:27:16.:27:21.

the interest of the people of Wales. Mr Hamilton, thank you very much.

:27:22.:27:28.

Well, what a couple of days it has been. I am now joined by elliptical

:27:29.:27:42.

commentators. -- political commentators. Laura, what you think

:27:43.:27:51.

of this? In some respects, it paves the way for what will be an

:27:52.:27:57.

incredibly different Assembly. Whatever the outcome is over the

:27:58.:28:00.

issue of the First Minister, we knew that this will

:28:01.:28:09.

Do you get a sense that perhaps the labour group has not be adjusted to

:28:10.:28:16.

that new environment? I am not sure about that. I got a

:28:17.:28:20.

sense today that before we got to the vote as to who should be First

:28:21.:28:23.

Minister, the fact that the Labour Party give three votes to that

:28:24.:28:30.

extent on the Presiding Officer candidate was radically different to

:28:31.:28:32.

what I have seen happening in the past. I whipped -- I would have gone

:28:33.:28:40.

with 2003. I thought that the Labour Party would have looked at it in a

:28:41.:28:43.

more open-minded way. I understand that they tried to talk to a certain

:28:44.:28:48.

extent to the Lib Dems and to Plaid Cymru and trying to make some sort

:28:49.:28:52.

of arrangement to indicate there was a difference of tone. Unfortunately,

:28:53.:28:58.

that cheap date is still casting a shadow.

:28:59.:29:02.

Really? Do you think that the opposition parties would

:29:03.:29:02.

Really? Do you think that the that today was the day that they

:29:03.:29:06.

would give the bigger party a bloody nose?

:29:07.:29:09.

would give the bigger party a bloody I think that Darren is

:29:10.:29:10.

would give the bigger party a bloody that it says more about Plaid

:29:11.:29:14.

would give the bigger party a bloody than it says about the Labour Party.

:29:15.:29:14.

This is a different Plaid Cymru than it says about the Labour Party.

:29:15.:29:17.

group, one that this appears party, in this case Labour. I think

:29:18.:29:22.

also, there party, in this case Labour. I think

:29:23.:29:37.

Aside from the Rhondda, it was poor for Plaid Cymru. So they need to do

:29:38.:29:42.

something to project Leanne Wood and the party back onto the agenda. This

:29:43.:29:44.

is a really bold the party back onto the agenda. This

:29:45.:29:48.

well misfire, but they had to do something.

:29:49.:29:51.

well misfire, but they had to do That is now the question. If they

:29:52.:29:53.

have engineered this, how do they then climbed down from it, as that

:29:54.:29:57.

they want to, of course, but it has to be resolved somehow?

:29:58.:30:02.

There must be a resolution and if not, the assembly will be dissolved

:30:03.:30:06.

on the 5th of June. There must be some resolution between now and

:30:07.:30:10.

then. I think that maybe if we had had another session immediately

:30:11.:30:14.

afterwards, Plaid Cymru could've said, we have made our point, you

:30:15.:30:17.

can't govern as she used to, we will said, we have made our point, you

:30:18.:30:21.

step away from it. The problem now is that there looks to be another

:30:22.:30:26.

week for B have a cleaner recession. That will

:30:27.:30:30.

week for B have a cleaner recession. negotiations. The Labour Party is

:30:31.:30:31.

playing that negotiations. The Labour Party is

:30:32.:30:37.

aspect that will have the biggest aspect on

:30:38.:30:41.

aspect that will have the biggest Europe. Because actually, that date

:30:42.:30:43.

is getting Europe. Because actually, that date

:30:44.:30:46.

losing another week of campaigning and are

:30:47.:30:50.

losing another week of campaigning had a massive falling

:30:51.:30:55.

could perpetuate for PBX or four weeks, really

:30:56.:30:55.

could perpetuate for PBX or four for another

:30:56.:31:03.

could perpetuate for PBX or four there will say there is requirements

:31:04.:31:05.

and standing orders for this but I am not sure why. If Plaid Cymru's

:31:06.:31:09.

tactics were to really flex am not sure why. If Plaid Cymru's

:31:10.:31:12.

muscles, as it did very effectively, then it would have anticipated the

:31:13.:31:15.

meeting would be adjourned then it would have anticipated the

:31:16.:31:17.

short meeting of time then it would have anticipated the

:31:18.:31:20.

reconvened. No one is clear why we are waiting such a long time, it is

:31:21.:31:26.

to know when's benefit. No one can work out why it took half

:31:27.:31:29.

an hour to count 60 votes, it seems to take a long time, everything, and

:31:30.:31:33.

this please! What are your thoughts as the others

:31:34.:31:36.

will likely be resolved and the timetable for doing so? I do not

:31:37.:31:39.

think I have the stamina for another election?

:31:40.:31:43.

I do not think we are taught me about another election. You are

:31:44.:31:47.

correct, that we do not have a First Minister within 28 days of the

:31:48.:31:51.

election, there will be another election, but nobody has an appetite

:31:52.:31:55.

for that, including all of the political parties, never mind the

:31:56.:31:58.

public. I think it will be resolved but the proof of the pudding, Billy,

:31:59.:32:02.

and how it is resolved and how Plaid Cymru come out of this any stronger

:32:03.:32:06.

position than they went into it today, and how we will respond in

:32:07.:32:09.

terms of its culture of operations subsequently.

:32:10.:32:13.

The problem is that the Conservatives and Ukip seemingly are

:32:14.:32:18.

just going to back Leanne Wood for the hell of it. It might act to be

:32:19.:32:22.

Plaid Cymru that has to shift, it is probably easier for them in some

:32:23.:32:26.

ways but it is not an easy step. Plaid Cymru have got a fair bit out

:32:27.:32:31.

of today but it is an extremely high risk strategy and one we will be

:32:32.:32:35.

giving a vote on the Labour Party leaflet and lecture placards for a

:32:36.:32:39.

long time to come. Darren Anderton Laura, thank you

:32:40.:32:43.

very much indeed. This story will go on and on and there is the small

:32:44.:32:46.

matter of an EU referendum campaign to talk about. We will address those

:32:47.:32:52.

in next week's programme. -- Darren. If you would like to give us your

:32:53.:32:58.

opinions, please do, the hashtag is on screen now. Good night.

:32:59.:33:06.

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