01/06/2016 The Wales Report


01/06/2016

Felicity Evans looks at what is next for the steel industry in Wales and speaks to the first minister. Ahead of the EU referendum, there is a look at the debate over immigration.


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Transcript


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As Welsh steelworkers wait for news from both Tata

:00:00.:00:07.

and the UK government, we ask, where next

:00:08.:00:08.

With less than a month to go until the referendum on the the UK's

:00:09.:00:22.

How much of a factor is immigration playing in the debate?

:00:23.:00:25.

When it comes to using numbers in political campaigning,

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Good evening and welcome to The Wales Report.

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Remember, you can join tonight's conversation on social media.

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We start tonight with the latest on the steel industry in Wales.

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After a meeting last week in Mumbai, Tata's continuing the process

:00:50.:00:52.

of selling its UK operations, including Port Talbot.

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The UK government's put forward proposals to change the pension

:00:57.:00:58.

system in order to allow the company to fill the deficit in its scheme.

:00:59.:01:07.

Here's our business correspondent, Brian Meechan.

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The uncertainty continues over what is next for the loss-making Port

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Talbot site and others around the country. The future of Tata's plans

:01:23.:01:29.

including here at Port Talbot is being decided that is as ours away

:01:30.:01:34.

behind closed doors in Greybull Capital. Negotiations are ongoing

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between the company, UK and Welsh men's and the bidders trying to

:01:39.:01:43.

overtake these operations. The outcome will have a huge operation

:01:44.:01:46.

on the workers here and their families and the entire community

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surrounding it. This local bar is backing Tata workers with especially

:01:52.:01:58.

broad ale. As part of the UK's government efforts to protect the

:01:59.:02:02.

industry, it is proposing changes to the pension system to allow the

:02:03.:02:07.

company to reduce its deficit which is currently ?500 million. The UK

:02:08.:02:11.

government's plans would see the huge Tata pension scheme from ?15

:02:12.:02:17.

billion, the ?12.5 billion. Either way, no company that buys it will be

:02:18.:02:22.

likely to take over that liability. That means it is essentially a

:02:23.:02:27.

negotiation between the government and Tata about how to resolve the

:02:28.:02:31.

pension deficit and at the moment, it is the workers and pensioners in

:02:32.:02:35.

that scheme who have to pick up the bill. We knew they were always going

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to come back for pensioners, either Tata or any potential new owners,

:02:42.:02:46.

they would always attack pensions again. Pensions experts have

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estimated with limited information available, the people who have

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already retired will lose an average around 25% of their pension whether

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they go into the new government scheme or the pension protection

:02:59.:03:04.

fund. It is bullying tactics. It is a question of, if you do not play by

:03:05.:03:11.

my rules, I am taking it away. I think it is absolutely disgraceful

:03:12.:03:15.

that they should look at the pensions and penalised retired

:03:16.:03:22.

steelworkers. The UK government has said that this plan they are putting

:03:23.:03:27.

forward for pensions will only be felt Tata and will not have a wide

:03:28.:03:33.

impact the pension schemes and other people paying into pension schemes.

:03:34.:03:37.

Do you believe that? I do not believe that for one instance. That

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is the first stage of the government meddling in other private pension

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schemes. How can they justify letting Tata get away get away with

:03:48.:03:53.

taking money out of our pension pots when at the current time they are

:03:54.:03:56.

telling everybody to take pensions out? It just does not make any sense

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to me. Rumours have been going around about Tata and whether it is

:04:02.:04:05.

going to rethink and reconsider its decision to sell. What do people

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think about that, about Tata staying? I feel bitter about it, to

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be honest. I am lucky, I still have a job. But I know a lot of men and

:04:17.:04:22.

women that have not got jobs any more, they have been cast out of the

:04:23.:04:25.

business, surplus to requirements. And I feel bitter for them. And

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also, for those left behind. We have gone through the mill as well. With

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all this, things that have been happening. Politicians have been

:04:39.:04:41.

supportive of the proposed changes to the pension scheme. I trust the

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view of the trustees on this, but it looks like they have got quite an

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innovative solution. They will reindex from the Retail Price Index

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to the Consumer Price Index, which helps to pay down the liabilities.

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And it secures a sustainable future for the fund. It seems Tata and

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politicians have some convincing to do if these workers are anything to

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go by. Pension rights have been hard gained and many will want to ensure

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they are not easily lost. I'm joined now by the First

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Minister, Carwyn Jones, who was That was for the Tata board meeting.

:05:14.:05:23.

Welcome. What is your reaction to the suggestion about reindexing the

:05:24.:05:29.

Tata pension scheme? Do you support that idea? I would not be supportive

:05:30.:05:33.

of scene cuts the benefits to those retired or paying in at the moment.

:05:34.:05:37.

That needs to be examined carefully and you can see from the reaction of

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the three men in the film that it is a natural reaction, people saying,

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why should we have our benefits cut? I would not be supportive of it

:05:48.:05:51.

going into the government's tech show and fund which was designed to

:05:52.:05:55.

deal with those companies going bust. That is not the case for Tata.

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It is for the trustees to work through a solution to this to make

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sure we do not see a cut in benefits. We do know that no buyer

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will come forward if the pension scheme is there and they have to

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take it over so it does need government intervention that we have

:06:12.:06:14.

to make sure it does not penalised pensioners and those already in the

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scheme. Is there a third option is available or have you been waiting

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for other proposals to be made by the trustees? When British Coal was

:06:25.:06:27.

privatised, the deal was done with the British Coal pension scheme so

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it would be more attractive for privatisation. The government made a

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deal and that scheme is doing well and the UK government is doing

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better at that scheme that it should be. So that our presidents and it

:06:39.:06:43.

just needs to have innovative thinking. Concern about the current

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proposal is it, the slippery slope and could apply to firms other than

:06:48.:06:51.

Tata if they get into pension deficit. And the other is a

:06:52.:06:55.

financial analyses we had analysing the figures suggests there is not

:06:56.:07:00.

much to Prince in terms of how workers come out of it between the

:07:01.:07:05.

reindexing and the pension funds -- much difference. If the fund went

:07:06.:07:09.

into the pension protection fund, a queue of businesses would say, we

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will have the same, thank you very much, you have done it for Tata.

:07:14.:07:17.

They have to look at Tata separately but there are different ways of

:07:18.:07:21.

analysing what is proposed but it is for the trustees to decide how best

:07:22.:07:24.

to take the pension scheme forward to protect those who are part of the

:07:25.:07:29.

scheme. How urgent is it they come up with a third plan on the

:07:30.:07:33.

pensions? Tata has talked about wanting to complete a sales process

:07:34.:07:37.

by the end the month. It is crucial, nobody is going to with steel

:07:38.:07:42.

breaking unless the pension fund changes. I understand the gap in the

:07:43.:07:46.

funding which is not unusual in funds like this, it has reduced over

:07:47.:07:50.

the years anyway and this is not a scheme that is about to collapse.

:07:51.:07:55.

But that does need to be dealt with in order for there to be a

:07:56.:08:00.

successful change. You are saying no to the pension protection fund, at

:08:01.:08:04.

Eurosceptical desk article on the real index in and you would like to

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see a third plan? I would like a situation where people do not see a

:08:10.:08:12.

huge loss benefits I think pension protection is wrong and there are a

:08:13.:08:17.

number of hazards for the UK government on that. I look for a

:08:18.:08:20.

solution to protect the integrity of the scheme that does not see

:08:21.:08:25.

enormous cuts on those involved. Trustees have said there will be

:08:26.:08:28.

cuts involved but they think the reindexing is the most likely option

:08:29.:08:33.

and if they stick with that, can they convince you? Let's see it, we

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have not seen the figures and the detail and until we see that, it is

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difficult to give an opinion. In principle, you have heard what I

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have said about what should be done with the pension scheme. What about

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the report that Tata might be reconsidering the sale process given

:08:50.:08:53.

the improving market conditions, what the jewel reaction to that be?

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It is not a question of who runs the steel industry but the commitment

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they showed -- what would your reaction to that be? Some workers

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will say that how can we be sure that Tata will have that commitment

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when they have already said they want to sell and Tata will have the

:09:11.:09:15.

response to that. We would not want Tata to continue and the pension

:09:16.:09:19.

issue to be dealt with and three years down the line the threat

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remains. I heard that the loss in Port Talbot in steel was down by two

:09:25.:09:30.

thirds and there is talk of steel making breaking even in the very

:09:31.:09:34.

near future which is very helpful. Funny, it is about having somebody

:09:35.:09:37.

to put in the investment and who is committed to the future of steel in

:09:38.:09:43.

Wales. You think Tata is not given what has happened? They would have

:09:44.:09:47.

to convince people. Tata is a company with a good reputation and

:09:48.:09:50.

that means something to them. They are not a here today and gone

:09:51.:09:56.

tomorrow company, to be fair. Having said they want to sell, if they then

:09:57.:10:01.

want to stay, obviously they will have to convince the workers at the

:10:02.:10:05.

Welsh plans that that is a long-term commitment and they will have two

:10:06.:10:09.

give guarantees in my view to make sure that is the case. We do not

:10:10.:10:13.

want them to stay for now and then look at it in three years' time,

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that does not give the certainty that workers need. You in Greybull

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Capital last week for the board meeting that for the board meeting,

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who did you talk to and what came out of that -- you were in Mumbai.

:10:26.:10:33.

They said that the position at the moment is to sell. But in the

:10:34.:10:36.

future, the position may change. That is what they said. But they

:10:37.:10:40.

said that is the position at the moment and they have been given the

:10:41.:10:44.

challenge of finding a seller and that is what they are working on.

:10:45.:10:49.

Whether the upturn in steel prices has an influence on their thinking,

:10:50.:10:56.

we will remain to see. What is important is if we were in a

:10:57.:11:00.

situation where there were no bidders, nobody wanted to run the

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industry, that would be difficult. The seven bidders have said they

:11:04.:11:09.

want to look at the bidders in some detail and that is to be welcomed.

:11:10.:11:14.

And they sticking to the deadline as you understand it of completing the

:11:15.:11:18.

process by the end of June? As time ticks on and they do not publish a

:11:19.:11:23.

short list or name a preferred bidder, it is a tight deadline

:11:24.:11:26.

already. No timescale was indicated to me at the meetings. I think the

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timescale hopefully has extended. Tata is not losing the money that

:11:32.:11:35.

they were. Yes, they are losing money, but it is not as bad as it

:11:36.:11:39.

was and that might mean the timescale is extended. In some ways,

:11:40.:11:43.

that is good and it gives time for a proper solution to be found, but it

:11:44.:11:47.

still creates that uncertainty for the workers at Port Talbot and the

:11:48.:11:52.

other locations. And we need to say, there is a deal on the table, and

:11:53.:11:59.

that is crucial to all workers. You have spoken to workers at Port

:12:00.:12:04.

Talbot. And we heard some of the men saying the uncertainty is terrible

:12:05.:12:08.

to difficult -- is terrible to live with for those working and for those

:12:09.:12:12.

who have pensions. It is not recent. We have seen lay-offs in the past

:12:13.:12:16.

and people had been concerned for a while. I would say to people in Port

:12:17.:12:20.

Talbot and I live down the road, we are fighting hard to make sure the

:12:21.:12:25.

industry has a future. Carwyn Jones, thank you very much.

:12:26.:12:27.

Immigration is one of the big issues in the run-up to this month's

:12:28.:12:30.

referendum on whether Britain should remain in or leave

:12:31.:12:33.

The most recent official figures put net EU migration to the UK -

:12:34.:12:37.

that's the difference between the numbers of people coming

:12:38.:12:39.

This week, on The Wales Report, we're going look at

:12:40.:12:43.

what the issue means for us here in Wales.

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I've been to Merthyr to see if the town's past

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It might be hard to believe now, but this site was once home to the

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world's biggest ironworks. 250 years ago, the ironworks were at the

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cutting edge of technology. If village that consisted of sheep

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tracks and a couple of thousand residents became a magnet for

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immigrants. At first, they came from other parts of Wales and England and

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then from Ireland. When the first census was done in 1801, suddenly

:13:24.:13:28.

people discovered that Merthyr, the parish, was the largest in Wales.

:13:29.:13:37.

7700 people. They were astonished. But it kept on growing. By the

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1880s, Cole was King and the burgeoning economy attracted a

:13:43.:13:48.

second wave of migration to Merthyr. The Jewish refugees came here,

:13:49.:13:52.

Italians came here, they are not refugees but economic migrants.

:13:53.:13:55.

Spanish people came here because the works is importing iron or so

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Spaniards came over with the iron will. So Merthyr is the most

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cosmopolitan town in Wales apart from Cardiff and Swansea, the

:14:08.:14:11.

seaports. The boom years of Merthyr have long gone and the unemployment

:14:12.:14:15.

rate is consistently above the wealth -- the Welsh average, but

:14:16.:14:19.

people from other EU country still come here to work. Freedom of

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movement is a key principle of the EU, the freedom of movement of

:14:24.:14:28.

people, goods and services and capital. Creating a single market

:14:29.:14:32.

with no barriers to travel, trade or investment. But it is the free

:14:33.:14:36.

movement of people principle that concerns a lot of people worried

:14:37.:14:40.

about levels of EU immigration into Wales and the rest of the UK because

:14:41.:14:45.

all you need to work here is an EU passport.

:14:46.:14:54.

Home country of Holland, he worked in IT but the pay was not good. --

:14:55.:15:05.

in Max's home country of Paul and. He says educating and training good

:15:06.:15:10.

workers is expensive to the taxpayer in the country they drawn up. But

:15:11.:15:15.

Britain is getting the benefit of his training without having to pay

:15:16.:15:20.

for it. From my perspective, I strongly believe that the British

:15:21.:15:26.

economy is gaining a lot because they don't... It is people who are

:15:27.:15:34.

paying taxes straightaway and expanding the economy. Today, local

:15:35.:15:38.

factories like that behind me continue to attract workers from

:15:39.:15:43.

other EU member states. Around 2% of the population of Merthyr are EU

:15:44.:15:49.

nationals, below the UK national average of 5%. Some research

:15:50.:15:58.

suggests there is a small impact on jobs and wages and it is most likely

:15:59.:16:03.

to affect lower skilled workers, the sort of people who might be

:16:04.:16:09.

competing for jobs in Merthyr's meat factory. This woman has concerns

:16:10.:16:16.

over the impact of EU immigration on the town. There is not enough jobs

:16:17.:16:21.

and houses in Merthyr for the people who have lived here all their life.

:16:22.:16:28.

There are very low income families. These people are coming, these

:16:29.:16:32.

immigrants, and are prepared practically to work for nothing.

:16:33.:16:36.

Leave campaigners say that leaving the EU is the only way for Britain

:16:37.:16:40.

to get back control of its borders and tackle problems caused by

:16:41.:16:45.

immigration. For Remain campaigners, it is not so simple. They say of

:16:46.:16:50.

Britain wants continued access to the single market, freedom of

:16:51.:16:54.

movement is something the country may have to accept.

:16:55.:16:57.

Joining me now on behalf of VoteLeave is Ross England.

:16:58.:17:05.

How important is the immigration issue to the EU debate? An important

:17:06.:17:13.

part of the jigs and one which must be taken seriously. Those of us who

:17:14.:17:17.

want to remain in the EU believe we should be discussing this topic and

:17:18.:17:22.

stressing how important immigration is to Britain. 60% of the EU

:17:23.:17:28.

immigrants into Britain come with a degree. That brings a great deal of

:17:29.:17:33.

skills, particularly to our universities, to our NHS and it

:17:34.:17:40.

enriches our economy as a whole. That does not detract from the fact

:17:41.:17:46.

that of course there are difficulties in certain areas. Your

:17:47.:17:52.

film shot Merthyr, which has a very low rate of immigration. But there

:17:53.:17:57.

are higher rates in for example the London area. To what extent, bass

:17:58.:18:02.

England, do you believe some of the problems caused by immigration in

:18:03.:18:07.

areas where lots of people are moving in and possibly putting

:18:08.:18:10.

strain on resources such as the NHS and schools, to what extent you

:18:11.:18:14.

think that feeds into the fault Leave argument? I think it is clear

:18:15.:18:22.

that leaving the European Union would address those issues. We don't

:18:23.:18:29.

have control over our borders. The UK Government does not have control

:18:30.:18:32.

over who comes into the UK from Europe. Virtually every country in

:18:33.:18:39.

the world controls its own border. The issues you're talking about in

:18:40.:18:43.

terms of the price of labour being pushed down is an inevitable factor

:18:44.:18:49.

when you have a country that is open to a labour market in which there

:18:50.:18:54.

are hundreds of millions of people willing to work for less than the

:18:55.:18:59.

people in that country. It is an uncontroversial thing to say that

:19:00.:19:03.

having free movement of people across the EU pushes deep cost of

:19:04.:19:11.

labour down. Doesn't it depend on whether Britain wants to negotiate a

:19:12.:19:16.

place in the single market? Norway and Iceland are not in the EU but

:19:17.:19:20.

are in the single market so they have to accept freedom of movement.

:19:21.:19:26.

The UK would have its own deal with the European Union. Norway has a

:19:27.:19:34.

unique deal. The UK would be able to negotiate a deal with the EU over

:19:35.:19:39.

which we had very low tariff trade and at the same time we can can --

:19:40.:19:47.

we can control our own borders. Immigration is a complex issue.

:19:48.:19:52.

You're talking about the price of labour being pushed down, so people

:19:53.:19:57.

having less in their pay packets if the are low skilled. At the same

:19:58.:20:03.

time, some immigrants coming in and contributing hugely through their

:20:04.:20:06.

expertise and skills. That can be addressed by a British government

:20:07.:20:11.

which has control over its immigration policy. It is up to the

:20:12.:20:15.

British government to decide once it has the power to decide. What's not

:20:16.:20:21.

to like about having control over Borders? This is a totally spurious

:20:22.:20:28.

argument. Australia has control over its own borders. Today, the Leave

:20:29.:20:36.

campaigners are advocating a points -based system. Australia has twice

:20:37.:20:41.

the number of immigrants that we have. It chooses how many people to

:20:42.:20:50.

let him. The point is you have to have immigration in the modern world

:20:51.:20:54.

in order to invigorate your economy. We work in an international economy.

:20:55.:21:03.

Companies do business abroad. They have headquarters in one country,

:21:04.:21:08.

other plants in other countries. There is bound to be a great deal of

:21:09.:21:15.

immigration. And it is a sign of a successful economy. Why do people

:21:16.:21:20.

want to come to Britain? Because we are doing well. The danger is of

:21:21.:21:23.

course that the people in favour of leaving the EU will get their wish,

:21:24.:21:32.

which will of course cause such a big economic shock that we will have

:21:33.:21:38.

a very per economy and you will get fewer people wanting to come because

:21:39.:21:43.

we are not offering the jobs people come for. Now that is an extreme

:21:44.:21:49.

scenario. At the point is, and Ross says we will do our own deal with

:21:50.:21:54.

Europe, we would do our own deal with Europe, but Europe as a rule

:21:55.:22:00.

for everyone which relates to free movement of people. Among other

:22:01.:22:05.

things. As you said in the film. And therefore that is what is there a

:22:06.:22:11.

choir of Norway and of Iceland. If you want access to that economy,

:22:12.:22:15.

double cushion our economy as a whole, then you need to have free

:22:16.:22:22.

movement of people. Your response to that, that it is spurious to argue

:22:23.:22:26.

that Britain could somehow be the only country to negotiate single

:22:27.:22:30.

market access and not have to negotiate free movement of people.

:22:31.:22:36.

If it wanted to negotiate full single market access, Britain would

:22:37.:22:45.

be in a good position to do that. Britain is the fifth biggest economy

:22:46.:22:48.

in the world. One of the most powerful countries on earth. It is a

:22:49.:22:52.

great shame that British politicians seem to want to talk us down and

:22:53.:22:58.

talked only potential of an independent Britain to throw our

:22:59.:23:07.

weight a bit on the world stage. Thank you for joining as.

:23:08.:23:10.

With the Assembly election over and the EU referendum fast

:23:11.:23:13.

approaching, we are all used to hearing politicians using numbers

:23:14.:23:15.

and stats to back up their arguments.

:23:16.:23:17.

Throughout the campaign, we've been bombarded with conflicting claims

:23:18.:23:20.

about the costs and the benefits of membership from both sides.

:23:21.:23:23.

But do you ever have the sneaking suspicion that politicians might not

:23:24.:23:26.

Will Moy, of fact checkers Full Fact, is here to explain how

:23:27.:23:30.

to demystify the numbers and give us some advice on how we can debunk

:23:31.:23:33.

45. 70,000 jobs will be lost. A lot of people are treated by the feeling

:23:34.:23:53.

you cannot trust what you hear from the people in power. That is not

:23:54.:23:57.

always true. It is hard to know which bits you can trust on which

:23:58.:24:01.

you cannot. As a voter, you can't take anyone's word for anything as

:24:02.:24:08.

totally at face value. There are not many claims you couldn't look at and

:24:09.:24:11.

say that is exactly what is going on. The question is, what do you do

:24:12.:24:16.

next? Ask yourself three questions. Where does it come from? Is there

:24:17.:24:23.

any reason to think this is independent, credible, impartial?

:24:24.:24:29.

Secondly, what are the actually measuring? It has been simplified,

:24:30.:24:33.

it is a head like no. What is underneath and is going on in the

:24:34.:24:41.

real world. Finally, just because something is going on in the real

:24:42.:24:45.

world, the economy is getting bigger or smaller, that doesn't mean that

:24:46.:24:49.

is what it is going to do in your own life or for your family. Two

:24:50.:24:59.

months after the referendum, we have well funded campaigns and people are

:25:00.:25:04.

wary. It is a problem for the campaigns and the voters. People

:25:05.:25:08.

understand there is often more to the story than what they're getting

:25:09.:25:12.

from the campaigns which are trying to persuade them. People don't know

:25:13.:25:21.

what to do next. This is a referendum about what the world will

:25:22.:25:25.

be like in 30 years' time and it is up to you to make a best guess.

:25:26.:25:28.

I'm joined now by Dr Matt Wall, from Swansea University.

:25:29.:25:33.

Welcome to the programme. Politics is about persuasion. I guess we

:25:34.:25:39.

shouldn't be surprised that the politicians want to pick the fact

:25:40.:25:44.

and figures that best support their argument? Absolutely. You'd be

:25:45.:25:47.

surprised if they did anything different. I think the art of the

:25:48.:25:53.

campaign is to pick the best possible fact that cannot be

:25:54.:25:59.

revealed as an outright lie. We have seen that on both sides. These are

:26:00.:26:12.

favourable interpretations of the numbers. How much it costs us to be

:26:13.:26:17.

in the EU and how much it might cost to leave. Both of them we should be

:26:18.:26:22.

sceptical about, you suggest? How does one cultivate an air of

:26:23.:26:25.

scepticism about these things without being cynical? Good

:26:26.:26:31.

question. It is difficult. The video we just watched talks about the

:26:32.:26:39.

source of information. You should be sceptical about things coming from a

:26:40.:26:45.

campaign than something coming from an independent source like the ONS.

:26:46.:26:52.

Immigration figures are based on observation. Economic observations

:26:53.:27:04.

are based on projections. -- economic figures. The further we get

:27:05.:27:16.

into the future, the more difficult the prediction becomes. While there

:27:17.:27:20.

is a relative economic consensus about the short-term effects of a

:27:21.:27:25.

British exit which would generally seem to be negative, 1520 years'

:27:26.:27:31.

time, nobody can really see what effect would be. There has been

:27:32.:27:37.

scepticism about statistics for a long time. On the other hand, we

:27:38.:27:43.

know that statistics is an important way of us learning about the world

:27:44.:27:50.

and improving the world. Florence Nightingale did it. And

:27:51.:27:52.

mathematician and statistician who used these that sticks to marshal

:27:53.:27:57.

the powers that be to implement the policies that saved hundreds of

:27:58.:28:05.

flights. To be responsible with numbers, how much irresponsibility

:28:06.:28:09.

is there on those making these arguments not to dissolution are, do

:28:10.:28:14.

you think? That is an interesting question. I think people are

:28:15.:28:19.

responsible for themselves, for the information they concern. I think

:28:20.:28:23.

disillusioning the voters with stretching the truth, I don't know

:28:24.:28:31.

that is necessarily something... Campaigns must persuade voters and

:28:32.:28:36.

they will take the figures that suits them. In Britain we have a

:28:37.:28:41.

range of independent bodies to give us relatively reliable statistics on

:28:42.:28:46.

things like rove and immigration. I think it is important. The biggest

:28:47.:28:50.

distinction I would make is between projections and distinctions. If you

:28:51.:28:58.

look at independent versus campaign based sources, that will help your

:28:59.:29:04.

sought the chaff from the wheat. Is there a figure you have come across

:29:05.:29:08.

in your career that has stuck with you or has changed your 99% of all

:29:09.:29:15.

statistics are made up on the spot. That is one of my favourites. --

:29:16.:29:26.

your worldview? 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

:29:27.:29:30.

That is one of my favourites. Thank you.

:29:31.:29:32.

We will be holding a special debate the week before the EU referendum.

:29:33.:29:37.

If you'd like to get in touch with us about that

:29:38.:29:39.

or anything else, email us at [email protected]

:29:40.:29:42.

On The Wales Report with Felicity Evans, she looks at what is next for the steel industry in Wales and speaks to the first minister.

And with less than a month to go until the EU referendum, there is a look at the debate over immigration.


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