08/03/2017 The Wales Report

Tonight on The Wales Report, we are at Westminster for a special

Tonight on The Wales Report, we are programme on today's

at Westminster for a special programme on today's Budget. Who are

the winners and losers, and what does

the winners and losers, and what the winners and losers, and what

does Brexit mean for the Chancellor's plans? Stay with us for

a special edition Chancellor's plans? Stay with us for

a special edition of The Wales Report.

What does the Budget mean to us in Wales? An extra ?200

What does the Budget mean to us in Wales? An extra ?200 million over

four years. No detail on a city deal for Swansea. And controversially,

the increase in national insurance contributions for self-employed

people. I am joined by a panel of parliamentarians here in the

people. I am joined by a panel of parliamentarians here in the studio.

You can have your say. With me tonight is Guto Bebb,

Wales Office Minister Jo Stevens, the Labour MP

for Cardiff Central. For the Liberal Democrats,

Baroness Jenny Randerson. And we have Hywel Williams,

Plaid Cymru MP for Arfon. Many thanks to you all

for being here this evening. I'm going to start, Guto, with you.

There are clear indications I'm going to start, Guto, with you.

There are clear indications that the Conservative party has broken a

clear manifesto promise in this national insurance policy - true or

false? You national insurance policy - true or

false? You like national insurance policy - true or

false? You like it is fair to say that the manifesto did say clearly

there would not that the manifesto did say clearly

there would not be an increase in national insurance contributions, so

the change to class for is a manifesto breach. In the context of

someone who has been self-employed for 16 years, the real unfairness

for the self-employed was the way they were

for the self-employed was the way they were treated when it came to

their pensions. they were treated when it came to

their pensions. If you were self-employed before we brought in

the single tier state pension, you would

the single tier state pension, you the single tier state pension, you

would get a pension that was about ?40 a week less than you

would get a pension that was about ?40 a week less than you would if

you are an employee paying class one national insurance. That has been

dealt with national insurance. That has been

dealt with and we get the same pension when we retire. There is an

argument in favour of saying the benefits are recolonised, that there

should be more even payments. Class four will go up to 10%,

should be more even payments. Class four will go up to 10%, which is

should be more even payments. Class four will go up to 10%, which is

still less than what the employee pay, but it is going up to

still less than what the employee pay, but it is going up to reflect

the fact that the pension contribution is significantly more.

It won't be very welcome, and it should be highlighted that no one

earning less than ?16,000 will pay a penny more. In order to pay more

tax, someone self-employed must be earning over ?31,000. Not perfect,

but I understand the rationale. You have provided a lot of context,

which is useful for the discussion, You have provided a lot of context,

which is useful for the discussion, but if I can condense it, in a way

you might not like, it is a broken promise but it is worth it in the

cause of fairness? The changes we have made in terms of pensions are

cause of fairness? The changes we have made in terms of pensions are

more significant than the cost of this change. Denying that the

manifesto in 2015 said no increases in national insurance? No, I'm not

denying it. The benefits for the self-employed and the employed are

different, and the Chancellor announced we would look at that to

equalise those announced we would look at that to

equalise those benefits. Jo, Labour's position is what? Are you

saying, we understand fairness argument, that this had to be dealt

with and argument, that this had to be dealt

with and that therefore this move argument, that this had to be dealt

with and that therefore this move is wise one? We understand it was

with and that therefore this move is wise one? We understand it was a

broken promise. wise one? We understand it was a

broken promise. If there was going to be a rise, it could have been

targeted at the highest earners, instead of which, it has been aimed

at the lowest earning self-employed instead of which, it has been aimed

at the lowest earning self-employed people. What we saw from the

Chancellor was people. What we saw from the

Chancellor was a big post about a reduction in unemployment, but 80%

of that production are people who have gone into self-employment

because they can get a job. And the average

because they can get a job. And the because they can get a job. And the

average earnings for someone who is self-employed is ?11,000 a year, so

this is another hit on the least self-employed is ?11,000 a year, so

this is another hit on the least wealthy, the poorest, who are really

trying hard. Taxi drivers, hairdressers, builders, people the

Tories say they are supposed to stand up for. There has been a lot

of talk about encouraging people to start businesses and to be

entrepreneurial start businesses and to be

entrepreneurial and all the rest, and the self-employed ethos is part

of that. What message does this give? Absolutely, it is an important

issue. The ?11,000 average, they won't pay a penny more, because no

one earning under ?16,000 will pay a won't pay a penny more, because no

one earning under ?16,000 will pay a penny more.

one earning under ?16,000 will pay a penny more. In relation but like

someone and ?5,000 would be paying class two, and we are saving them a

a year. This is fair. Those earning over 45,000, that 2% rate is exactly

the same as for those in employment. We have a tiered way of paying

the same as for those in employment. We have a tiered way of paying

National Insurance. We have a tiered way of paying

National Insurance. A view from Jenny and Hywel - do you accept

National Insurance. A view from Jenny and Hywel - do you accept the

rationale? He seems to be saying that we are increasing national

insurance buzz it doesn't matter because we

insurance buzz it doesn't matter because we have -- but it doesn't

matter because we have -- but it doesn't

matter because we have these measures in place. People earning

over 16,000, it clearly does matter. So much of the Welsh economy is in

the self-employed sector, with single people or perhaps

partnerships, very small businesses, so I would say that if there is

going to be a hit, it will hit us hard. Would you vote against the? We

will have to see when we hard. Would you vote against the? We

will have to see when we discuss it in the debate.

will have to see when we discuss it in the debate. What would persuade

you to vote against this? National insurance is regressive and has been

seen in the past as job destroying. insurance is regressive and has been

seen in the past as job destroying. If you are going to go

seen in the past as job destroying. If you are going to go over the

16,000 harrier to be paying If you are going to go over the

16,000 harrier to be paying more, there are lots of reasons to oppose

it. Lots of conditions there are lots of reasons to oppose

it. Lots of conditions and qualifications,

it. Lots of conditions and it. Lots of conditions and

qualifications, Jenny, as we have heard. Basically, is this a policy

you can upload or not as heard. Basically, is this a policy

you can upload or not as Lib Dems? It is not. The Tories

you can upload or not as Lib Dems? It is not. The Tories have sold

you can upload or not as Lib Dems? It is not. The Tories have sold

themselves traditionally as the party of small business, and here

they are breaking a fundamental promise to

they are breaking a fundamental promise to small business

they are breaking a fundamental promise to small business people. It

is worse than that - they are doing it at a time when we are desperate

to encourage people to be as entrepreneurial as possible, to

encourage people to go out entrepreneurial as possible, to

encourage people to go out and earn a decent

encourage people to go out and earn a decent living because of the

impact that Brexit is going to have a decent living because of the

impact that Brexit is going to have on the

impact that Brexit is going to have on the Welsh economy. We have got to

use every tool in our on the Welsh economy. We have got to

use every tool in our tool box in order to try and withstand the shock

use every tool in our tool box in order to try and withstand the shock

that that order to try and withstand the shock

that that will bring to our economy. You make that point clear. We have a

range of views. One of the announcement today, and the few

mentions of Wales announcement today, and the few

mentions of Wales in the speech, the ?200 million of extra money. Jo, for

people watching, where will this money go? I listened to the whole

speech, I was in the chamber money go? I listened to the whole

speech, I was in the chamber for it, and I started out thinking it was

thin and disappointing, and I and I started out thinking it was

thin and disappointing, and I certainly wasn't

thin and disappointing, and I certainly wasn't disappointed. There

was very little in this Budget for Wales today. Some of that

was very little in this Budget for Wales today. Some of that money had

already been announced previously, and we have seen a Budget for the

Welsh Government cut in real terms and we have seen a Budget for the

Welsh Government cut in real terms since 2010 by 8%. This is

Welsh Government cut in real terms since 2010 by 8%. This is a drop in

the ocean and is not very since 2010 by 8%. This is a drop in

the ocean and is not very much to do since 2010 by 8%. This is a drop in

the ocean and is not very much to do anything with. The Welsh Government

will make up its mind about how to deal the capital part and how

will make up its mind about how to deal the capital part and how to

deal with the revenue part, but it is not much to play with. You are

clear on the is not much to play with. You are

clear on the amount and what is not much to play with. You are

clear on the amount and what you think of it, but again, where is the

priority to use this money, in your view? The Welsh Government may look

at business rates again. They previously put ?20 million in to

an additional scheme help small businesses, and there was

an additional scheme to help with business rate relief. They may look

at that, but the pressures on public services in Wales because of that

real terms Budget cuts are huge. That small

real terms Budget cuts are huge. That small amount of money will have

to be spread thinly. Jenny, argue as critical as Jo of the amount and the

Welsh profile? I think it is very disappointing, all told. It is

particularly disappointing for Wales, which is one of the poorer

economies in the Wales, which is one of the poorer

economies in the UK. Taiwan to draw out of this the actual amounts of

economies in the UK. Taiwan to draw out of this the actual amounts of

money. For example, ?50 million over format years for infrastructure.

Now, that is absolute peanuts. That goes absolutely nowhere when you are

talking about repairing the A55 and improving that road, this south

wales metro, M4 relief measures. It is a minute amount of money over

format years. The amount of is a minute amount of money over

format years. The amount of money for the revenue Budget would not

make the for the revenue Budget would not

make the difference to the NHS that is needed. ?200 million over format

years, peanuts according to the Lib Dems

years, peanuts according to the Lib years, peanuts according to the Lib

Dems - your perspective? That is ?400 million to do up Buckingham

Palace, 5 billion to do up the Palace of Westminster, ?200 million

Wales. Palace of Westminster, ?200 million

Wales. We are looking at things like health and education, where

inflation is higher than the general economy and there are huge pressures

because of the nature of our population, so it isn't a lot.

because of the nature of our population, so it isn't a lot. I

welcome population, so it isn't a lot. I

welcome every extra pound. We need a good deal more. Notwithstanding your

concerns about the, where should the money be spent and what can Welsh

voters expect to see different after money be spent and what can Welsh

voters expect to see different after this money is spent? I have no idea.

The butter will have to be fed the spread very thinly indeed. There are

pressures on health. Social care is another, but this money won't go

pressures on health. Social care is another, but this money won't go

very far. another, but this money won't go

very far. There is money for a somethings, Guto, where should this

be spent? You highlighted that this is the last spring Budget, and the

reason is we will have an Autumn Statement in future. The Chancellor

is clear that the two things should be

is clear that the two things should is clear that the two things should

be merged into one, so there is ?700 million of extra capital spending

announced in December for the Welsh Government. I'm sure they wouldn't

refer to that is peanuts. We now have another ?200 million coming in

in terms of revenue spending, so in have another ?200 million coming in

in terms of revenue spending, so in less than

in terms of revenue spending, so in less than four months, the Welsh

Government Budget has been increased by almost ?1

Government Budget has been increased by almost ?1 billion. A fiscal

framework for Wales is something that was never delivered by Labour

when they were in power. ?700 million from the Autumn Statement,

200 million today, it is good news. As

200 million today, it is good news. 200 million today, it is good news.

As to where it should be spent, the vast majority of the 200 million is

As to where it should be spent, the vast majority of the 200 million is

the result vast majority of the 200 million is

the result of a change to business rates in England. I would ask the

Welsh assembly Government to prioritise those two areas. There

are businesses in my constituency who would be glad of the support

are businesses in my constituency who would be glad of the support

that can come their way. In the who would be glad of the support

that can come their way. In the same way,

that can come their way. In the same that can come their way. In the same

way, there we know there are issues that can come their way. In the same

way, there we know there are issues with social

way, there we know there are issues with social care. Changes in England

will result in a barn at consequential

will result in a barn at will result in a barn at

consequential for Wales. The way the Barnett system works is, you have

consequential is Barnett system works is, you have

consequential is as a result of increased spending in England. This

was a fiscally neutral Budget, so the fact that Wales still gets ?200

million is still a very good deal. the fact that Wales still gets ?200

million is still a very good deal. So it is ?900 million if you take in

the previous statement. The three of you are giving us a misleading

picture? If we talk about what we didn't see today, nothing on the

Swansea tidal lagoon. There is huge cross-party support for that an

Government has sat cross-party support for that an

Government has sat on its hands and done nothing with Charles Hendry's

report. It is an opportunity for us to become world leaders in marine

technology engineering, and the Government is doing. Nothing on the

Swansea City deal. We are waiting for projects to deliver jobs and

growth, and for projects to deliver jobs and

growth, and nothing is happening. That is exactly what I wanted to

growth, and nothing is happening. That is exactly what I wanted to

raise. The city deal, the lagoon - what does the silence signify today?

raise. The city deal, the lagoon - what does the silence signify today?

Nothing, there will be a Swansea City deal. The discussions are

progressing well and it has been described as a good deal. There are

things we want to tweak, but I described as a good deal. There are

things we want to tweak, but I am confident there will be a deal. It

was never stated that the decision would be made at this Budget. I

would remind listeners that when we would be made at this Budget. I

would remind listeners that when we set out the Cardiff City deal, the

same opponents said there would not be won, and we have ended up with a

contribution from the UK Treasury be won, and we have ended up with a

contribution from the UK Treasury of one million pounds. They also said

they would underwrite the ?600 million of

they would underwrite the ?600 million of European funding,

they would underwrite the ?600 million of European funding, and yet

none of the million of European funding, and yet

none of the work on the Metro has commenced. We need money coming from

Westminster, additional money on top of the Welsh block grant, but we

also need of the Welsh block grant, but we

also need to see the Welsh Government starting to spend that

money. When we have a city deal for Cardiff weather over ?1 billion,

money. When we have a city deal for Cardiff weather over ?1 billion,

let's see some action. We will have a deal for West Wales as a

let's see some action. We will have a deal for West Wales as a result of

the Swansea regional deal. I am confident we will have a growth deal

in North Wales in due course as well. For people watching in Swansea

and West Wales today, and North Wales, let's take Swansea Festival,

will they get news before the end Wales, let's take Swansea Festival,

will they get news before the end of the year on that? This fiscal year

calendar year? I would be confident in this calendar year. It would be

tough to have it before in this calendar year. It would be

tough to have it before the end of match. But in the calendar year,

there will be a decision. And you are absolutely confident it will

come about? The bid we have put together has been described as

exciting, wetter than some of the deal is signed in England. There are

some issues to be tweaked and improved. It is a bottom- up deal.

We're not saying Westminster knows best. We are saying that there are

some things best. We are saying that there are

some things that are promising and we would like to look at again. I am

confident we will have a good deal for Swansea which shows that

Westminster not only delivers for the capital city

Westminster not only delivers for the capital city of Wales but for

the second city. I will come to Hywel, and the North Wales context?

The work being put in by the six authorities in North Wales is to be

applauded. The group of local authorities looking to improve

transport links with the North West of England are doing fantastic work,

so we're confident we will deliver the North Wales growth deal. Swansea

first, then the North Wales deal. the North Wales growth deal. Swansea

first, then the North Wales deal. Confidence on both, - do you share

that? We would like to see the deal being made at this time so

that? We would like to see the deal being made at this time so we would

be confident that it was going ahead being made at this time so we would

be confident that it was going ahead in Swansea. There are implications

in North Wales because there are plans for a

in North Wales because there are plans for a lagoon there as well.

One other thing about capital plans for a lagoon there as well.

One other thing about capital spending, we still don't have a

single spending, we still don't have a

single inch of electrified rail in Wales, whatever

single inch of electrified rail in Wales, whatever happens. After a

Labour Government for many years, a coalition and then a Conservative

Government... We know it's on the way but we know

it is over budget in England at this point in time. But we know it will

arrive. The work has been done on the seven tunnel. Nobody is more

frustrated than the on the fact that it is behind budget but we will have

faster trains going all the way to Swansea, and it is a commitment I

want to take that I understand the frustrations. To bring it to a close

here before we move on. On the infrastructure, looking at the

Swansea deal which Guto has been positive about, are you confident

that we will see this coming to fruition? Is it again something that

the Liberal Democrats think is a good template for economic

regeneration? I hope it comes in to fruition but we need to keep up the

pressure to make sure electrification goes beyond Cardiff

to Swansea. Because, it is absolutely essential the job is

finished. But, you know, that is just the beginning of the South

Wales valleys, we need to get the Metro going and we need the

infrastructure investment. We need to be working with UK Government to

revitalise that area. And we will need that impetus in the years to

come, because of the Brexit shock. You mentioned Brexit, I want to

pause for a second there. By the way, electrification for Swansea,

people are expecting that, it would be an even better project,

obviously! There's no need to go mad, go all the way to Carmarthen.

As Jenny mentioned, one of the surprise aspects was very few

mentions of the Brexit process. A couple of mentions from the

Chancellor at the start of the speech but it is the context for the

biggest economic debate of the moment. And the issue that comes up

most often is Welsh access, continued access, to the European

single market. Two economic experts take us through their views on the

next movements... There is no denying that the single

market is important to Wales. Something like two thirds of its

exports are EU related. But, one must not forget that although it is

important to Wales, that the rest of the world is also open to Wales.

But, as you said, at the moment two thirds of exports from Wales are

into the EU. That is not going to change overnight, just because there

might be a shiny new free trade agreement with a country like Korea

or Japan. Businesses trade with businesses. Relationships are

established over a long period of time. At the moment it is very

hassle-free and straightforward. I think it will actually deter smaller

businesses from importing or exporting, just because it is more

difficult. I think that free movement of labour

is very important and vital for British industry. And, it is too

simplistic to say that we need to have full control of immigration.

Immigration is usually a good thing. We will control immigration simply

because we need to have a kind of system that filters the right kind

of quality labour that we need, which improves our economy and

increases Value added. I do not see immigration necessarily falling, it

might even rise, who knows? What I do believe is that there will be

control. All of a sudden, those with imported

and exported from into the EU, with little paperwork, they will be faced

with quite a substantial amount. We would have to be faced with delays,

we had to be faced with warehousing, and all associated costs. It needs

to be factored in and I'm not sure, at the moment, whether the Welsh

economy is prepared for that. If you look at it dispassionately from an

economic point of view, removing ourselves from the year, from the

customs union, and freeing ourselves to enable us to trade freely with

the rest of the world, that would actually be good for Britain and

good for Wales. -- a rather intriguing game of chess

there. Let's pick up with our guests. Jo, let's pick up with

Wales's future outside of the EU. Whether or not there is some sort of

access, into the single market, on which we currently depend. Your

perspective on this, and how the government is going about it? What I

thought was most shocking about the budget today was the absence of any

reference to Brexit, it is the biggest thing that will hit our

economy in Wales and the UK, there was no mention. The budget speech

was trailed with some kind of ?60 billion reserve to protect us

through Brexit and there was no mention.

It seems if I was someone who worked at Ford, Vauxhall Airbus, and was

watching the budget speech today and was thinking about Brexit and market

access, I would be really worried, there was nothing to reassure me or

the people of Wales that the funding we get from the EU will continue

once we leave. Earlier, in this very studio, Paul Johnson of the

Institute for Fiscal Studies was here, and when I asked about it, to

said it was nonsense. There was no thing as a Brexit war chest. They

are busy dealing with the state of public finances. But the point

being, there is an issue about how much of the Brexit perspective there

was in the speech, even if it was implied? Not explicitly spelt out.

For you, Hywel, where does it position Wales? Let's have a

specific point. Some farmers will be experiencing a very difficult

position when we leave the EU, some of them will be facing paying more

national insurance. That's an obvious Brexit issue here. It is not

just industry. It is our country areas. And, the system that we have

within country areas. The farmer pays the person who runs the garage

who pays the guy who fixes things. It has profound implications. I was

surprised there was not a lot in there about Brexit. It is the

context for everything we do at the moment. There is a prison that

everything is viewed through and will be for the next two years at

least. And for years after that, as our economy adjusts -- prism. It is

a bit disingenuous of the Chancellor, not to put it centre

stage. Because, I would say that he is

bound to be setting aside money for the times to come. He would not be a

sensible Chancellor unless he was doing so. I think if he had not had

Brexit full in his view, then he would have been able to spend a

great deal more money and invest a great deal more in the economy, in

skills, the NHS... Even with a deficit at these levels? Yes, I

think he would have felt that the economy was doing well enough to

apply some stimulus. Was it a Brexit free speech? All three panellists

have already said that Brexit is the context for everything. This was a

physical lean neutral and careful budget because we are going through

the Brexit process. We talk about Brexit all the time in Westminster.

We will be having ping-pong as a result of decisions taken in the

House of Lords. It's a budget put together in a careful manner because

of Brexit but I find the idea that a country which is running a deficit,

as we still are, despite the fact we talk about austerity, we still had a

deficit, putting money aside is not realistic. We are in a position

slowly better than anticipated and better than we anticipated on the

day after Brexit. This is the context where we are working but the

fact the Chancellor did not use that magic word does not mean that the

budget today does not reflect the fact we need to be careful with

public finances. When will we get the good weather so that we can fix

the roof? I don't understand the question, the situation is the

Brexit White Paper prepared by the Labour government with the Liberal

Democrats and signed up to buy Plaid Cymru, a lot of the issues there

similar to what the government wants to achieve in Westminster as well.

We want as little friction access to the single market, and a good level

of access to the single market. We have these discussions in a Welsh

context and ultimately there was a decision made by the Welsh people.

Not a decision I subscribe to, I campaigned on the other side of the

debate but concerns have been expressed by the Welsh people and we

have responsibility to deliver Brexit in as painless a fashion as

possible and to see we can build on the opportunities that will come our

way. One of the concerns, if not the main one, was the level of

immigration. It leaves Labour where now, today? In terms of your input

into the debate has it develops? Questions around the freedom of

movement. Carwyn Jones has said that needs to be addressed. What does

that mean in terms of how you view the government's handling of the

debate. It's interesting, in the package we saw the possibility that

immigration levels might rise, and my constituency is a city centre,

Cardiff, they voted to remain. Concerns about immigration which

have been planted on to the discussion about the vote when the

views I heard in Cardiff. Looking at areas of Wales where there were

higher levels of immigration, there was not the concern, looking at

areas of Wales where there are very low levels, there's a perception it

is a problem. It's more complex than that if I may say so, my

constituency and the next along voted to remain. People could see

the point of it. We will have problems with our university, with

huge numbers of people and staff in Wales. They don't know where they

stand. So, there are huge problems. Because one of the sensitivities,

Jenny I will come to you in a second, let me pick up Guto on that

point. The status of EU nationals, there is such a big debate. I read

about a French teacher who had been living here since 1974, now facing a

very difficult situation. Is that where you thought you would be at

this point? Well, no. You have to be aware that on three separate

occasions the government offered to deal with this issue separate to the

other negotiations. People who said no European partners, which is

clear. We always get the blame from other parties, the government. But

on three separate occasions the Prime Minister made it clear she

would like to deal with the issue of EU nationals in the UK and the EU

separately from main negotiations which has been the rejected. We have

an obligation to the 3 million EU nationals in the UK, I 100% agree,

but also the nationals in the European Union. We need an

agreement. The 27 countries in the EU need to talk to the government on

this issue. It is symptomatic of the problem. We have a specific issue

where on both sides of the argument, we agree that the status of these

people must be settled. But, even on this particular one, we cannot get

agreement. This is going to show how complex the whole thing is going to

be, over the next few years. Because, absolutely every aspect of

leaving the year, that you touch, it becomes a hugely complex issue. And

I think that what people in general, and certainly I did not appreciate,

I campaigned strongly to remain. But, I don't think I realised half

of the complexity of what is faced now. And, in the immigration issue

is only one tiny aspect. Jo, what were you going to say? I was going

to say to Guto, I would want to start negotiations on a positive

footing. Make a gesture, she could do it now. It is easy to make a

gesture... But you do have a responsibility to UK nationals in

the European Union as well. And you need to be honest. The Spanish

government seriously do not want to have 800,000 pensioners from the UK

in Spain. There would be an issue in, do we pick up the medical bills,

for example? We cannot say, well, everybody can stay in the UK, until

we know what will happen to relatives of people in my

constituency. Tell that to the academic staff at Cardiff University

from the EU... But why is this government wrong? Why aren't you

complaining about the EU not making a gesture? It is a moral issue...

For the EU in exactly the same way as the UK Government. You cannot say

it is a moral failure on the heart of this government... But we are the

country that wants to leave. And therefore, we need to leave by --

lead by example. And we said firmly, can we have it separate from Brexit

negotiations quit at the offer was rejected. I take your point, Guto,

but it does not solve the problem for the people in Swansea, Newport,

everywhere else. It will solve the problems for some people but not

others. We want to solve the problem for everybody. 3 million in the UK

and 1.3 million in Europe. It would be morally wrong if we abandoned the

1.3 million citizens in Europe. You are showing by example and putting

the EU in a position where they cannot possibly treat them less than

well. You are ignoring the reality of where UK citizens are in the EU.

You need a position where the whole of the EU deal as one. There are

very few Spanish nationals in the UK. Europe has to deal with it

together and do it now. They cannot do it without... Where does it leave

the quick and easy Brexit? UK nationals living abroad in Europe,

to vote in the referendum committee would not let European nationals

living in the UK vote on the referendum but if they had been able

to, that would have had a different result. That takes us in a very

different direction. Thank you for joining us today. On budget day.

My thanks to Guto Bebb, Jo Stevens, Hywel Williams and Baroness Jenny

We'll be back next week, but in the meantime, you can get

in touch with us by email: [email protected]

From Westminster, thanks for watching.

Award-winning comedian Rhod Gilbert is back for a new series.

Please tell me you've got something else I can wear.