26/05/2013 The Wales Report


26/05/2013

The issues that matter in Wales. With a look at plans to shake-up specialist hospital care in South Wales and how thousands of homes at risk of flooding could become uninsurable.


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Warnings that some accident and emergency units will collapse

:01:18.:01:28.
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without major reorganisation. are currently running some services

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that are fragile and in danger of falling over. We need to move

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towards providing those services safely on fewer sites. No change is

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not an option. We have seen in the last year an unprecedented demand

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on frontline secondary care services, that means all hospitals

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throughout Wales. That means we are really right at breaking point.

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are not the problems is recruiting into Wales. We are on a downward

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spiral of people seeing it as more attractive because we are stretched

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and clinicians are trying to provide more care, more out-of-

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hours care, without enough people on the rota. When -- when you come

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in as an emergency you need to be seen by someone who is trained

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appropriately to deal with your condition. We know that, there are

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cases where out-of-hours patients are seen by very junior doctors who

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do what they can but here is much better provided by senior trained

:02:55.:03:05.
:03:05.:03:07.

doctors. The role of the ambulance service is absolutely critical. Not

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just in terms of access but being part of the process of care,

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getting people to the right here at the right time. If people are

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having to travel slightly further two services we want to make sure

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access is good and reliable and relatives can get there as well.

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That is a service that people can ask questions about. If you are

:03:34.:03:38.

seeking to regionalised services you have got to make sure in your

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plan you have got sufficient transport arrangements dictate that

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casualty from the point of injury to that definitive high-level

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centre. Any delay in that potentially puts those casualties

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at risk. We know that the ambulance service currently is under immense

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pressure. I will be seeking assurances that the ambulance

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service is going to have increased resources. Allied will be asking

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some very tough questions. What will this lead in terms of

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services? Will be extra travel time make a difference in terms of

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outcomes? You will want solid reassurances that at the outcome is

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going to mean better care for our patients. That is certainly

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something to think about. The voices of frontline NHS care in

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Wales. Why are we in this mess? has come on as over a period of

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time. I think also recently we have begun to think there are services

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we are providing that are not as good as they could be. We want

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people in Wales to have the very best services. When you look at the

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accident and emergency case, lots of us might be puzzled by that

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figure of increased demand. Why are we suddenly seeing much more demand

:05:14.:05:19.

for that kind of accident and emergency cover? People argue about

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what is going on. What we know for sure is that we are in an ageing

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population. It is important we do a good job for them. Some of the

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pressure we are seeing is because older people have to come into

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hospital and as you get older you need more health care services. We

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think if we reorganise on the ground we could do a better job of

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looking after people. Our people been concerned about an ambulance

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service under pressure being asked to take people into more distant

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centres where they might possibly get more specialised care at the

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end of it but if that services are already under pressure that could

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threaten lives? We have worked carefully with the ambulance

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service. I think you will have to make changes. There are three parts

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to getting someone to hospital if they need care urgently. The first

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and more important thing that happens is what the paramedic does

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to you when he comes to you on the ground. Journey times are important

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but they are not these or Lee Bain. What is just as important is what

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is waiting for you when you get to the end of that journey. If you

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have got senior people around the clock on Dec waiting to look after

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you, especially hit you have the more serious injuries, you will

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have a better outcome. You are simply more likely to live if you

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have that service provided like that. That is Flybe are so keen to

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get so much senior cover on the ground around the clock. -- why we.

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What about it being difficult to convince people that working in

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Wales is an attractive option? is a concern. We want the very best

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service and we won the very best people to come here to help us

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deliver that service. We must have a service that is organised in such

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a way that people want to come and work here. They must be sure they

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will get good training because people have a choice now and they

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might choose to go somewhere else if they think they will get more

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and better Experience, better supervised experience. We have to

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think about that when planning these changes. Just to be clear,

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the kind of reforms we are talking about will come together and be

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approved by whom? By the Welsh Government. Is that on-track or

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not? Colleagues in the local health boards will be looking to see that

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we have gone through this process properly, that things have been

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thought through, that we have consulted with people in a

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meaningful way to make sure there needs are taking into account.

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if it does not go through? We have got a window now. I do not know how

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long that when the West, it may be 10 years. Unless we make

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significant changes to the way we deliver health care I think you

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will have a less good health care system for people in Wales and I

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think that will be a shame. Thank you for coming in. Some of the

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plans under consideration are strongly opposed, in particular the

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proposal to downgrade the accident and emergency unit here. This week

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some senior Labour politicians to do the streets to join the campaign

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to keep a specialist here at the site. That is despite the fact the

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planned changes result from a process that is taking place under

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the responsibility of the Welsh Labour Government. I am joined now

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by a Labour Assembly member who is also campaigning against the

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proposed changes. What are you all posing? What we are arguing for is

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the interests of the constituencies we represent. There is a

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consultation process which has put forward a number of options. We

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want to seek an emergency service maintained in this hospital and

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except the need for clinical change but during this process we think it

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is essential we look at all the facts behind the decisions and

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recommendations. We support the option that is best suited to dead

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people of this constituency. Let me put it to you provocatively. You

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support the need for clinical change but not if it affects you

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and you're constituents? It has to be what will be in the best medical

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:10:22.:10:24.

interest of people. Look at the options been presented to you. I

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think there may be other combinations of options by

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hospitals working more closely together in the provision of

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services. One areas important. If we are to lose certain services in

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the hospital there are reasons that others could be moved out from

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Cardiff which are far more accessible to people and will also

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maintain the status of the hospital. Let's talk about the transparency

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of what is going on. This is a decision which will finally have to

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be approved by your colleagues in the Government. Our viewers right

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to be puzzled by the fact you are out protesting, campaigning

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publicly against the decision potentially which will be taken by

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your old colleagues, what are they to make of that? Ultimately it will

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have to be approved but the criteria for approval is the

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medical lead. It is important there is not a political squabble over it.

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I did do not make your representations quietly and

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privately behind the scenes rather than publicly at this stage? People

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contact you and engage with you. They want to know what your views

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are and how you are going to represent them during the

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consultation process. One of the things we are going to be doing is

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assisting people to put in consultation views. Some of those

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are different from different parts. Some parts of my constituency

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orientate more towards Cardiff already. I think the problems are

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:12:15.:12:15.

even more or so further up the road. It is in your constituents interest

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but this hospital is no longer one of these specialised units. What

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are your options then, do you still say you disagree? The first stage

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is to make sure the basis on which the options are being considered

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are based on fact. The second is the maker case as strongly as we

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can. Thirdly, if the options come out, I think if we are satisfied

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they are based on clinical need them collectively we have to accept

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them. The one thing we cannot compromise on his medical safety

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and sustainability for the future. The trouble is you have already

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publicly stated their opposition to those options. You cannot be

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telling me hear you will accept them at the end of the day. What I

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am hoping is that some of the things I am supporting and going to

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be arguing for should be incorporated within the final

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recommendations. That is my aspiration, that the arguments I

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put forward are accepted. I am prepared to compromise. I think

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there is some merit to some of the points we have started to raise. We

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may well end up with a solution that does not give you everything

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you want but maintains the Royal Glamorgan with specialist services

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and accident and emergency services for the majority of people. Have

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you discussed this with the First Minister? I have not. I do not

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think it is appropriate because of the role he plays ultimately. I

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have discussed it with in the constituency. A lot of people are

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pleased I have taken the stand I have. Thank you. Now it is almost

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one years since severe flooding hit parts of Wales. Now there are

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warnings that homes in the area could soon be uninsurable. An

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agreement between insurance providers and the UK Government

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which means everyone can access household insurance is due to end

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in July with no alternative in sight. What will that mean for

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In minutes flooding can devastate lives and wreck property. No one

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here in Wales is in any doubt of the damage that flooding can do.

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Mick and Jenny found at first hand a year ago. There town look like

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this. The summer floods left the downstairs of their house

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completely submerged. On the day of the flood there was a huge pulse of

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rain in the early hours of the morning and it came up to the arch

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of the bridge and started to back up dramatically. It came up to

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within I would say six feet in the garden with in half-an-hour. It was

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a tremendous increase. The water came in through the back

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door. It rushed in through the back door and started to rise very

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quickly. It was devastation. It looked as though someone had

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grabbed hold of the house and shaken all our contents onto the

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floor. Covered in inches of mud so everything had to be thrown away.

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It was heartbreaking to open the door and see what had happened.

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Mick and his family climbed out of the window with nothing but the

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close they were wearing. They lost nearly all their personal

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possessions. It could have been worse. Thankfully they have

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insurance so 10 months on they have rebuilt their home and moved back

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in. It really does take its toll in as much as it is a real emotional

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drain. Physically and emotionally over those months we were at our

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lowest. Generally because it was so obvious there had been a major

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traumatic event the insurance company were actually quite good in

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terms of taking on responsibility once they had agreed to take on the

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claim. The family have already taken practical steps themselves to

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guard against future flooding. Predictably their insurance premium

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has already gone up and now they fear they will not get cover at all

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the next time they have to renew their policies. That is because the

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way flood insurance is provided could soon change. At the moment

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there is an agreement between governments and the insurance

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providers, it is called the statement of principles. The

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insurers have agreed to cover buildings that are actually in a

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high risk flooding areas and in return the government in Wales,

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England, Scotland and Northern Ireland have been improving their

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flood defences, building storm drains, culverts, sea walls, to

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lessen the risk. The agreement means that all property owners have

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access to a reasonably priced flood insurance. The deal runs out at the

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end of July. The Association of British Insurers say that if no new

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settlement is reached by the deadline, from August flood

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insurance will be left to the free market. Insurers will be able to

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charge whatever they like for higher risk properties. Many are

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warning that that will leave huge numbers of homes and businesses

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unable to afford insurance. In fact, across Wales There are 200,000

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properties at risk of flooding from rivers or the sea. According to one

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flood victim Support charity, in future, under free-market

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conditions, thousands of those properties may not get insurance at

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all. What you will probably see his insurance companies pulling out of

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the market where there is any significant flood risk. What would

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that do to communities and businesses? If you cannot get

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insurance you cannot buy a house, you cannot get a mortgage.

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Communities need to wake up and smell the coffee but Government

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needs to wake up and smell the coffee. This is something they

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cannot walk away from. If they are trying to play a game of bluff with

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the insurance industry to see who blinks first then it is a disgrace

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and I say shame on them for that. Ultimately they are playing with

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people's lives and the Health and well-being of whole communities.

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Talks are ongoing but there is one main sticking point. The insurers

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for the UK government to provide some sort of support to help them

:19:01.:19:05.

cover the ever-growing cost of flooding. After all, the 2007

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floods cost insurers across the UK more than �3 billion. Everyone

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accepts that floods are becoming more frequent and extreme, which

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may explain why the UK government how worried about getting sucked

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into paying a future bill that could turn out to be enormous.

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Jonathan Evans, the Conservative MP for Cardiff North who chairs the

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all-party insurance group in Westminster says negotiations are

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at a crucial stage. If ultimately the Government said it is OK, in

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the event there was a real calamity, in the early stages of the scheme

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we will stand behind it, then the regulators would be happy and the

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cost to the customer would be a manageable cost. It is a lot of our

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old photographs of the children. this family go through their

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treasured photos that they have managed to rescue, they fear that

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if they are flooded again they will be on their own, abandoned by both

:20:07.:20:12.

the politicians and the insurance. I would like to see a way forward

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that we can continue insuring our house so we can carry on living

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here. I know we live next to a river and it is a risky place but a

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lot of people living risky places to one sort or another and to my

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mind the idea behind assurances to share that risk. Our insurance

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company have already demonstrated they do not really want us because

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of the price of the premium and it would be an easy situation for them

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to say knowing agreement that exists and they will not offer any

:20:39.:20:49.
:20:49.:20:54.

more insurance. -- and no agreement exists. Helen Callaghan reporting.

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I'm joined now from our London studio by Matt Cullen from the

:20:57.:21:00.

Association of British Insurers. Flooding is a very complex issue

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and these talks have been going on for a very long time because we are

:21:05.:21:08.

trying to solve a very difficult problem and ensure that flood

:21:08.:21:12.

insurance remains affordable to people all around the country. Some

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of these people, if Insurers were doing business as normal, there

:21:16.:21:20.

would be no business case for that to be possible so it is a difficult

:21:20.:21:24.

issue for art and the Government to overcome. What would you want the

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government to deliver as part of its contribution that they are

:21:29.:21:35.

reluctant to deliver? There is no country in the world that has a

:21:35.:21:38.

functional free market for flood insurance, which delivers

:21:38.:21:41.

affordable flood insurance without any form of government support

:21:41.:21:45.

whatsoever. We have developed a scheme that has pretty minimal

:21:45.:21:49.

government involvement but it does involve government to do two main

:21:49.:21:53.

things, firstly to legislate, to make sure that all insurers take

:21:53.:21:56.

part in the scheme, otherwise Insurers that did not take part

:21:56.:22:01.

would get an advantage. Government is fine with that part of it but

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the sticking point is that what we are doing is dealing with a very

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volatile thing in a flat day. Some years it will not cost very much at

:22:08.:22:12.

all but the years it will be extremely expensive and how you

:22:12.:22:15.

manage that volatility is a very critical issue and there is a lot

:22:15.:22:19.

of discussion about how to share at risk between government and the

:22:19.:22:24.

insurance industry. One of the options that has been canvassed is

:22:24.:22:29.

a levy on all insurance policies. Some people are mentioning a pounds

:22:29.:22:33.

per household on average. Is that figure correct and is that a

:22:34.:22:38.

principal you can justify? He yes, that figure is correct, it is from

:22:38.:22:41.

the proposal that the Association Of British Insurers as put forward

:22:41.:22:47.

and is working on closely with the Government. We think it is

:22:47.:22:50.

defensible and justifiable. We think it is justifiable for a

:22:50.:22:54.

number of reasons, firstly because actually lot of people around the

:22:54.:22:57.

country could find themselves affected by flooding, even though

:22:58.:23:02.

they might not appear to be all know that they are at a flood risk

:23:02.:23:06.

now. Lots of people flood these days for whom flood risk has never

:23:06.:23:09.

been an issue before so there are people out there who may feel that

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it is unfair for them to be supporting people at high risk but

:23:13.:23:17.

come next year or five years down the line it could very well be them.

:23:17.:23:21.

Yes, that is why debatable, because there will be millions of people

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caught in this deal if it comes about, you cannot really claim that

:23:25.:23:29.

a majority of them are potentially flood victims, can you? Know, you

:23:29.:23:33.

can't, but fundamentally that is a political decision and it is

:23:33.:23:37.

something that we have to work with government on and government need

:23:37.:23:40.

to take it the one and it is their decision whether it is right for

:23:40.:23:44.

people at row risk of flooding, some of whom may risk flooding in

:23:44.:23:47.

the future and some may not, but whether it is right for these

:23:47.:23:51.

people to subsidise or support a small collection of people, I says

:23:51.:23:57.

more, we are talking between 200,400 1,000 homes here, a lot of

:23:57.:24:00.

properties around the country, support them to make sure that they

:24:00.:24:04.

can get the support they really need when they are at their lowest

:24:04.:24:14.
:24:14.:24:16.

ebb. -- 200,000 to 400,000. If you do not get this levy, is there no

:24:16.:24:21.

deal? Without the levy you will have a situation where everybody

:24:21.:24:25.

has to pay a price that fully reflect the flood risk that they

:24:25.:24:29.

face. In other words high risk people have no mechanism for being

:24:30.:24:33.

subsidised or paying less than what they technically should be playing

:24:33.:24:39.

-- paying. That means that around 200,000 high risk homes around the

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country will probably struggle to access affordable flood insurance.

:24:42.:24:47.

That will have much broader effects than just those homes. It will

:24:47.:24:50.

affect the communities in which those homes are, the people, the

:24:50.:24:55.

services, the businesses that rely on those homes and those people, so

:24:55.:25:03.

the impact will be very significant. Right now, today, what is your hand

:25:03.:25:07.

as to the probability of a deal being struck in time? The insurance

:25:07.:25:10.

industry is determined to get a deal, we are working very hard on

:25:10.:25:15.

it and we have been for two years and we are not letting up. We think

:25:15.:25:18.

government are working just as hard and we hope and believe that

:25:18.:25:22.

government understand, as we do, that moving to a free-market is not

:25:22.:25:26.

a good solution for the country and we therefore have to get a deal in

:25:26.:25:30.

the near future. Thank you very much for joining us.

:25:30.:25:34.

It's been quite a season for rugby and, indeed, for football in Wales,

:25:34.:25:36.

with unprecedented glory and silverware for Welsh clubs. But

:25:36.:25:39.

what can we do to build on this success? We caught up with the

:25:39.:25:42.

chair of the Football Association of Wales, Jonathan Ford, in Newport

:25:42.:25:45.

where future stars of tomorrow mingle with famous faces like

:25:45.:25:47.

Marcel Desailly and Didi Hamann, training to become coaches at

:25:47.:25:57.
:25:57.:26:07.

The Welsh football has had a fantastic success this year.

:26:07.:26:12.

Cardiff finally won through to premiere Lee. Newport came back

:26:12.:26:18.

into the lead and Wrexham won the FA Trophy. Who can forget a tiny

:26:18.:26:22.

town of 1,600 people, the first time in Europe, what a fantastic

:26:22.:26:28.

success for them. They are playing in the Europa League next year.

:26:28.:26:32.

Football is big business across the world, it is a global sport. The

:26:32.:26:37.

money that comes in on a global basis, natural bases and a local

:26:37.:26:42.

basis is critically important to be spent in the right areas. --

:26:42.:26:46.

national basis. With the work we do with UEFA we can build facilities

:26:46.:26:51.

like this and continue to promote and improve football in this

:26:51.:26:55.

country and improve people's lives as a result. It has been well-

:26:55.:26:58.

documented that when clubs go through to the Premier League as

:26:58.:27:02.

Swansea did their Ahmad such benefits are we need to ensure it

:27:02.:27:05.

comes all the way through to all levels of the game, not just the

:27:05.:27:09.

top of the game. Welsh football is being much more widely recognised

:27:09.:27:17.

that. We have fantastic players at international level like Gareth

:27:17.:27:21.

Bale. What a goal! He had a fantastic season and is

:27:21.:27:25.

appropriately credited with that awards that he received. What a

:27:25.:27:29.

fantastic strike! It is important we do not end up with just a nation

:27:29.:27:33.

of spectators. We want people to be inspired to go out and play

:27:33.:27:37.

themselves. Football is a fantastic galvanise of community cohesion

:27:38.:27:41.

which is a knock-on benefit of trying to get people active and

:27:41.:27:47.

playing together. Of course There is a bigger benefit, health

:27:47.:27:50.

benefits. Football ultimately promotes an active lifestyle and if

:27:50.:27:53.

we can encourage people to lead a less sedentary lifestyle and get

:27:53.:27:57.

out there and get their boots on and kick a football around then

:27:57.:28:00.

hopefully the benefits later on as regards to Alf will improve this

:28:00.:28:05.

country no end. Welsh football is really punching above its weight. A

:28:05.:28:11.

lot of people don't recognise it as being a country leading sport but

:28:11.:28:15.

in participation terms and spectator terms it really is. We

:28:15.:28:18.

have the biggest voluntary work force of anything in Wales. Our

:28:18.:28:22.

coaching programmes are bringing a more coaches and our facility

:28:22.:28:26.

programmes are providing better facilities. Welsh football is on

:28:26.:28:29.

the up and it needs to be recognised as such. Hopefully with

:28:29.:28:32.

some of the success we will have with our national teams, it is not

:28:32.:28:37.

a matter of if but a matter of when, then people will recognise the

:28:37.:28:40.

power of the fantastic support we have and they would get on their

:28:40.:28:43.

boots and playing the pox a bit more than they are now.

:28:44.:28:47.

And hopefully that won't be the last time we see a World Cup winner

:28:47.:28:49.

wearing a Welsh shirt! That's it for this week's programme.

:28:50.:28:53.

We'll be back next week at the later time of 10:55pm. In the

:28:53.:28:56.

Featuring a look at plans to shake-up specialist hospital care in South Wales.

Plus, with no deal in sight between the UK Government and the Association of British Insurers, thousands of Welsh homes at risk of flooding could become uninsurable.


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