Browse content similar to 23/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, This Week takes an all expense spared trip to sun-drenched | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
Greece. Should we prepare to bail out the broken Greek economy? Will | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
Hutton thinks it's money well spent. The bubbles in the Greek economy | :00:29. | :00:35. | |
have gone flat. We in Britain do all we can to bring back the fizz, | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
even helping to pay the bar bill. As President Obama orders the | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
military to start to pack its bags and head home from Afghanistan, the | :00:45. | :00:54. | |
BBC's number one, John Pienaar, is Centre Court at Wimbledon. | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
OK, Cameron is on top. Britain's number one. Could he ever have | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
thought it could be this tough? With a potential washout at | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Glastonbury, we look for some musical agitaters. Stewart Lee | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
thinks it all got too corporate. Should pop and politics go hand in | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
hand? Are they as toxic a mix as Glastonbury mud? | :01:23. | :01:32. | |
I know, you wish you weren't here! Evening all. Welcome to my big, fat | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
This Week. We have been grum pier than a Greek bus driver who can no | :01:37. | :01:44. | |
longer retire on full pension at 50. Why is that, I hear you cry? He was | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
not invited to the royal wedding or Olympics. Fear not, things are | :01:47. | :01:55. | |
looking up. The first invite to pop on to our doormat was to Last | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
Nights transgender party, at Downing Street - naturally. Call me | :02:00. | :02:10. | |
gay friendly Dave was the perfect host. He joked that "Siena Millar | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
is here tonight. They have had two of the most prominent Queens in 24 | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
hours! Our next invite came from the gift which keeps on giving - | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
little Leo Blair's end of term party, all at the cost of �10 a | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
head. What's the coach fair? Don't they know you can get two bottles | :02:35. | :02:42. | |
of Blue Nun, and one night's subscription to Babe Station for | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
that? The final stiffy to arise our | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
interest, to the 40th birthday party of the Chancellor, little Boy | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
George. He themed his coming of age party. He made the inspired choice | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
of midsummer. Probably because it's in the middle of June. We party the | :03:00. | :03:10. | |
:03:10. | :03:10. | ||
night away with a motly bunchch of -- bunch of white Middle Englanders. | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
I am joined on the sofa by two of Westminster's biggest party animals. | :03:15. | :03:25. | |
:03:25. | :03:27. | ||
Call them the Anna Nicole Smith of last-night chat. They are wearing | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
their prisoner chic. Other than your two shirts what has been your | :03:33. | :03:40. | |
moment of the week? Mark Pritchard, not normally my cup of tea. He | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
introduced a motion, wanting to ban animals from circuses. He revealed | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
that this item seemed so important to the Prime Minister, that firstly | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
Mark Pritchard had been offered some kind of job that he withdraw. | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
That secondly he was threatened by Number Ten if he did not withdraw | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
his motion and was told the Prime Minister would view the matter very | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
dimly indeed. It makes you wonder what Number Ten is up to, or what | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
the Prime Minister is up to, bothering in a question as to | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
whether a backbench MP puts forward a motion, which has no effect in | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
law, about whether to ban circus animals or not. We are not at war, | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
there's not a sovereign debt crisis. Why not? I loved when he said "I | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
may be just a boy from a council estate, but I won't be intimidated | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
or threatened by the Prime Minister." He said, a council | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
estate and had some back bone and would look for some spine elsewhere. | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
I thought this was a telling remark. We had him on The Daily Politics. | :04:43. | :04:51. | |
He said it was time the Tory had more people like him and less old | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
Etonians. It was Wednesday, Prime Minister's Questions, when I saw | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
the start of the Prime Minister's U-turn when Ed Miliband asked him, | :04:59. | :05:06. | |
why are you taking the DNA of people arrested for rape off of the | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
DNA database, you would see him saying that, "we're not doing that | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
surely?" I've seen this as a car crash waiting to happen for a long | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
time. When we get to report stage, there's no date for it yet, I think | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
people will start realising this is, not only are they cutting police | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
numbers, not only are they forcing these elected commissioners on a | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
reluctant police force, they are hampering their ain't to catch | :05:40. | :05:50. | |
:05:50. | :05:53. | ||
people guilty of rape and murder. Greece... Greece! Sandy beaches, | :05:53. | :06:01. | |
turquoise sea. I can see myself there now with oust oust in one -- | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
with ouzo in one hand and olives in the other. They have the largest | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
cuts in modern history. Call me Dave isn't here, he has been in | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
Brussels. Ducking and diving. We caught up with Will Hutton, just | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
off the Eurostar, to find out why he thinks it would be bonkers not | :06:22. | :06:32. | |
:06:32. | :06:37. | ||
The remarkable St Pancras international station, just another | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
symbol of how close our relationships are with Europe. | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
Thousands of passengers go here every day to the continent. If you | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
need time -- if you think times are tough in Britain, in Greece | :06:51. | :06:58. | |
financial turmoil is raging. The Greeks are up in arms. In effect, | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
the country is broke. Without hundreds of billions from the IMF | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
and the European Union, the Government can't pay its bills. The | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
price is high. One in five Greek public sector workers are to lose | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
their jobs. Swinging tax increases and the biggest, fastest | :07:16. | :07:26. | |
:07:26. | :07:29. | ||
privatisation programme ever. Euro- skepics from Boris Johnson, to Jack | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
Straw are united. What's going on in Europe is for them and their ill | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
conceived euro, we'll stay well out of. David Cameron talks about | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
dealing with a crisis that could overwhelm all of us, not a penny or | :07:46. | :07:55. | |
a creative lead is in offer from The bubble may have bust in the | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
Greek economy, but the idea what's going on there doesn't affect us is | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
just bonkers. We can't put to one side what's happening in Greece. | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
Sooner or later it will affect us. Our banks have lent the best part | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
of a trillion euro to European banks and companies. If Greece is | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
for toss re-pay debts on a scale larger than what Germany was asked | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
to do after repaying after World War I, I have no doubt Greece will | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
default on its debts. Ireland, Portugal and Spain could follow | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
suit. The euro would collapse. We'd be in the middle of a financial | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
disaster. So what to do? Britain needs to | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
stand up for Europe and for Greece. David Cameron, instead of appeasing | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
his Euro-sceptic backbenchers needs to publicly assure the Europeans in | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
the eurozone that Britain will do everything in its power to help. | :08:58. | :09:07. | |
That means putting our hand in our pockets. | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
Will Hutton must be the cheapest champagne in Britain if.... That's | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
where I am going next time. He was in the railway station in St | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
Pancras. Here he is. Welcome back. Let me start with the stripy | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
brothers here. Is Will right? Should the European Union, | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
including the United Kingdom, do everything to keep Greece afloat | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
and in the euro? Will is absolutely right that the Prime Minister | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
should not say he's not going to have anything to do with this. It | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
made me very unhappy when he said that. Will is right, that this | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
crisis is all-embracing of incredible importance and will | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
sweep us all away unless we handle it correctly. If problem is, I | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
don't think the European Union is about rescuing Greece. It is about | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
rescuing the euro. The United Kingdom doesn't have much of an | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
interest in rescuing the euro in the sense of preserving the euro | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
with all the member countries who are presently in it as members in | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
the future. It may be much more sensible to let Greece go. They are | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
not willing to contemplate that. Should we be willing to give money | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
to Greece? We will have to participate in one of the | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
mechanisms. That is the IMF? That happens. Should we, as Will's | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
implication, pony up alon with the -- along with the rest of the | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
eurozone to help? I think we should say we wish to participate in the | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
leadership of the problem. It will probably cost us money. Yes. Where | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
are you? We should either donate a penny or some bright ideas. I agree | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
with the bright ideas. Ed Balls made the point about us being in | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
the position, because our banks are not as exposed as German and French | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
banks, we could be the broker here. We're not part of the euro. Where | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
is Gordon Brown when you need him? He would be in with ideas about how | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
to solve this. Another package will not solve this. Another package, | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
another austerity package will not solve this. There needs to be | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
another bail out? We are spectators at this kind of unbelievable event. | :11:22. | :11:31. | |
Greece is being asked by the IMF and the European Union between | :11:31. | :11:40. | |
2012-2015, to pay nearly as much in that period as the Germans were in | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
reparation payments after World War I. At the same time, their economy | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
will be three more years of decline. They will not do it. It is mission | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
impossible. We are spectators, watching a mission impossible | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
unfolding, which we are going to be hurt by as the consequences of this | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
escape being made... I get that. You say we should throw money in | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
there. We should be part of the next bail out. Are you saying | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
however much it will cost, it will be money well spent? I am saying | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
that we should attempt to shape a bail out, it shares the pain out | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
more eke Qatarably. The creditors to Ireland, to Portugal, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
simultaneously have to accept they will not get their money back in | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
full. They will not get it back in three, four, five years thaism will | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
get it back over 25 years -- they will get it back over 25 years. | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
That is what they will not agree to and the European Central Bank? | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
There's been an argument between the central bank and the French, in | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
which the Germans want something like this and the central bank and | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
the French oppose it. Chancellor Merkel has appealed to the BRITs to | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
come -- Brits to come to the party, put some money on the table and | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
maybe Britain and Germany could shape a better deal for Greece than | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
the one that is unfolding before our eyes. The grave danger is we | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
are going to watch Greece defaulting in a kind of Lehman | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
Brothers event. We've got, you can argue about the numbers, some say | :13:20. | :13:28. | |
700 billion euro, think it is nearer one trillion. They have | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
enormous loans out to eurozone Governments and Governments. | :13:31. | :13:38. | |
companies. Is Will right, that if it goes | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
pear-shaped in Greece, there's an automatic contagion to Portugal - | :13:45. | :13:54. | |
Yes. It is by far the biggest threat to the British economy and | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
the world economy that is present at the moment. He isn't saying that | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
there is a bail out, he's saying that the people and the private | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
sector have to now participate. precisely. The imaging, as it were, | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
Euro-sceptic position is that unless there's holes are plucked | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
now, all that is going to happen is that five years down the line the | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
burden passed to tax payers is going to be even greater. Unless we | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
get the private sector to participate in the pain, it's all | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
going to be mounting upon the taxpayer. Are we right to think | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
this is another Lehman Brothers? In many ways, we didn't see it coming. | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
This, by virtue of the fact that we are all talking about this, we see | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
it coming? We do, but it doesn't make it any less profound in terms | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
of its effects. In terms of the tour in Parliament about how we can | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
just wash our hands of it, we are not in the euro, it is their | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
problem, it is our problem as well. There are two fans of money, the | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
mechanism and the facility. We are part of one and not part of the | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
other. We didn't put anything into the original bail out. I can | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
understand elected politician saying, look, we are not going to | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
ban taxpayers' money into it. It doesn't mean to say we are not in | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
the game of showing some leadership. When I originally heard what you're | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
going to say, I thought you were going to say that there has to be a | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
lot more money given to Greece, an even bigger bail out and less | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
emphasis on austerity. What you are really talking about is a default, | :15:23. | :15:33. | |
by any other name? And talking about an orderly, organised bail-in. | :15:33. | :15:39. | |
Organised by the IMF, everybody is guide to the part of it, the bond | :15:39. | :15:49. | |
holders take their coat. It's not a default if the country which is... | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
If the country that withholds the obligation says, fine, I'm going to | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
carry on paying vet. The trouble is, what may happen is that they might | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
default and not pay anything to anybody. If we are going to get the | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
right answer we have to be not frightened by particular words. | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
People keep saying, we can't have a default, it's a bad thing, but it | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
might be worse... Most analysts in the city grave. Other people are | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
saying that Greece can't leave the euro. That bad, but it might not be | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
as bad as the alternative. Greece, it's going to be really | :16:26. | :16:33. | |
hard. Leaving the euro could itself precipitate the collapse of the | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
Greek banking system. It's a Shangri-La world going on. The ECB | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
and the French, and, so far, the German's official line, they don't | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
want to go through the route that we are suggesting, default. They | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
say even if you spread out the credit, it's a credit event and | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
counts as a default. The people of Rhys will determine this. Not a | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
single civil servant has lost their job yet. Not a single public asset | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
has been privatised. I put it to you, it will not happen. I was | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
hearing the other day they have an incredible situation where a | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
pharmacy get guarantees 35% profits. Paying your taxes is a kind of | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
voluntary procedure over in Greece. There is not an easy option. There | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
should be a substantive conversation between the Europeans, | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
the Americans, the whole of the G7, even the big countries. The IMF | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
warned last week that there could be a second financial crisis. It | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
will start here. The Prime Minister of Britain should not be talking | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
about red tape in Brussels this weekend. It's madness. Could the | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
Prime Minister series to carry his party at the put British taxpayer | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
money behind a quick bail out? in isolation. If the Prime Minister | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
seems a position of leadership, I think almost anything is possible. | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
We will have to leave it there, fascinating subject. What do you | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
think will have to happen? I think what will happen is that we will | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
buy two or three months of time. Ultimately, the Greek positional | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
breakdown, the opposition are behind the package, Greece will | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
actually default within the eurozone. I think the Irish and | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
Portuguese will follow suit, there will be substantive write-offs. | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
They knew I into territory that none of us can predict. I agree, it | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
will be fascinating. Now, it is late, but we are ready to pile | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
through to 6am. That is when the last dregs of Olympic tickets go on | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
sale. It is Michael's last chance to get a front row seat at the | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
Greco-Roman wrestling. For those of you with less primeval tastes, we | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
will soon be joined by one of Britain's Ms sophisticated stand-up | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
comedians, Stewart Lee. He's wondering why the music scene has | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
lost its sense of political mischief. For those of you who | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
share Mr Portillo's love of the bear-pit, there is always the | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
dealers comments page. Or you can join the baying mob, as always, on | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
Twitter. It's an edged tonight that Ed | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
Miliband wants to change the way that beta selects its Shadow | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
Cabinet to a system of one man, one vote. To be precise, the one man is | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
his vote. At the moment, Labour MPs choose who is in the Crazy Gang. He | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
thinks it should be up to him alone. I bet the current Shadow Cabinet | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
and over the moon with that overwhelming show of confidence. It | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
looks like the lobbying of Diane Abbott has finally paid off. | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
Fortunately, there are still places left where competition is cherished. | :19:41. | :19:51. | |
:19:51. | :19:56. | ||
Like Wimbledon, where we sent to Tracey. How are you? I'm ready. | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
You've got to get ready, cut the unforced errors down. Lots of | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
movement with your feet, you got to be aggressive, finish the point of | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
at the net and get tough. A big match... Big-match! Keep the feet | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
moving. Stand on the back. Remember, first we need to take this press | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
off. I got to take this off? Yes, I hear that David Cameron is a good | :20:18. | :20:26. | |
player, you've got to play well # If somebody is going to make it, | :20:26. | :20:36. | |
:20:36. | :20:42. | ||
Just like Cameron. Smooth, graceful, born to be at the top, no wonder | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
half the country can't stand him. But it was so much easier on the | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
way up. Criticising the Labour Rousell on the other side of the | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
net. Now every game is harder than the last one, like dropping the | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
idea of half of your sentence if you are a criminal and plead guilty | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
early on. Deon Strong is about being compared to admit you didn't | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
get everything right the first time. -- being strong. That is exactly | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
what we are doing with this. I think that's the right process to | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
follow. That's the style. Even if you miss a point, make it look like | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
it's all part of a plan. I've done many baulks in my time. They should | :21:20. | :21:27. | |
be done with purpose and panache when you have to do them. -- many | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
U-turn in my time. I actually don't think this is a U-turn tour. Look | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
at Ken Clarke, catgut strings, wooden racket, plays his own game, | :21:38. | :21:48. | |
:21:48. | :21:58. | ||
never learned any different. You've One thing I have learned, it's a | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
team game. OK, I like being in the spotlight, admittedly. But why | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
can't my team just do their job and make me look good? Cameron must | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
feel that way about the generals complaining about the men and | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
resources they have to do the job in Libya. Now Obama says he wants | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
30,000 out by next year. The generals are going to be saying, | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Prime Minister, do things at your own pace. There are moments when I | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
wake up and read the newspapers and think, tell you what, you do the | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
fighting, I'll do the talking. that a stumble? A mistake? Just a | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
bit too cocky. Miliband is trying to make him pay. Let me say this to | :22:36. | :22:44. | |
him and Olsson Senate seat -- in all sincerity. When our military | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
chiefs raised concerns and raised legitimate concerns about the | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
conduct of about operations, surely it's not the right thing to say to | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
say you did the fighting, I'll do the talking? In retrospect, Mr | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
Speaker, wasn't that very crass and high-handed? Second service. | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
only point I have tried to make in recent days is that I think when | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
you at war, and we are in both Afghanistan and Libya, I think it's | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
very important, whether you are a political or military leader, to | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
think very carefully about what you are about to save. Still, it looks | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
as if Ed Miliband has learned that you trick shots. Maybe there is | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
time for him to turn this thing around. But all of these Labour | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
players have the same problem. When it comes to strike action, they got | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
to choose their words carefully, especially with all of these | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
strikes coming up over pension reform. The trade unions must not | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
walk into the trap of giving George Osborne the confrontation he wants | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
to divert attention from a failure call it -- a quality -- failing | :23:47. | :23:57. | |
:23:57. | :24:02. | ||
Yes, there he is. John Pienaar is coming out on to Centre Court. Just | :24:02. | :24:12. | |
:24:12. | :24:23. | ||
John Pienaar, what a rally. Michael, Mr Obama's speech, he clearly can't | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
wait to get out of Afghanistan quickly enough. What do you make of | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
it? I think the Taliban will understand that perfectly clearly. | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
They will just be hanging around until American forces have gone. | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
It's quite interesting that he now defines the mission as being what | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
it was originally, a very long time ago, simply to deny it as a safe | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
haven for Al-Qaeda. You know, the American public will believe that | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
is given greater force by the fact Osama Bin Laden has been told. It's | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
a great pity, I think, that we departed so far from that objective | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
of denying Al-Qaeda a base in Afghanistan. Of course, any broader | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
objective now looks rather absurd. Because Al-Qaeda is now well | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
established in other countries. Shall we open a book on how long | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
President Karzai will last in Kabul after the allied forces have gone? | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
A week, 10 days, a month? I think the outlook for Afghanistan is | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
pretty grim. Especially if you are a woman. Between now and 2005, | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
there will be some political process. I wouldn't rule out of aka | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
oh you don't think it's a foregone conclusion? I wouldn't rule out | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
that a coalition could emerge between tribesmen, Taliban and | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
Hamid Karzai. The American electoral process is taking a big | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
role. Is it for re-election in 2012. As in this country, the war is | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
unpopular. It would be popular in this country if Mr Cameron could | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
speed up withdrawal as well? I wish Obama was doing it for security | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
reasons. I suspect it's about the politics. He's going against the | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
advice of General Petraeus, against the advice of his own retiring | :26:03. | :26:10. | |
Defence Secretary. And joint chief of staff? Yeah. Cameron, I'm really | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
worried about setting a date. Michael has lots of experience as | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
Defence Secretary. When I was in Afghanistan as Home Secretary, the | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
importance to morale of the troops of not signalling when this is | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
going to come to one end, I think it is really important. I think the | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
chairman of the Defence Select Committee, James Arbuthnot, is | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
absolutely right to worry about this. Both in America and the UK, | :26:38. | :26:45. | |
it's not doing a great deal of good for our troops' morale, or for the | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
issues they have secured, the gains they have made. I just think it's | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
about politics, not about security. We heard William Hague talking this | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
morning, we will be there until 2015, then afterwards but not as a | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
fighting capacity. Can we be blunt? The Americans set the pace on the | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
disengagement. If the Americans are going, we have to go, they provide | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
their whole infrastructure which all forces operate on there? We are | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
in there because the United States I in there, we will be out of there | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
because they are getting out of there. We will get out as quickly | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
as them question that we are an entirely junior partner, and Thai | :27:25. | :27:35. | |
:27:35. | :27:38. | ||
elite -- and entirely secondary We were fighting in two theatres at | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
the same time, at the same time as cutting the defence budget. | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
struck by Mr Obama talking about the cost in terms of lives and in | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
many of this twice as long as the Second World War operation. It's | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
worth just thinking about that. He said it was time for nation- | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
building at home. You are bound to be saying that when you are coming | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
up for re-election and you have to 9.5% unemployment. I wonder if | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
there is a danger at some stage if Libya will become that for others, | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
at some stage we will think the cost is too much and it will be | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
time for nation-building at home? We saw the cost revealed this week. | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
It is much more than was predicted. I still support... I supported | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
resolution 1973. I am becoming more and more concerned that this is | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
about us supporting the weaker side in a civil war, rather than | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
supporting a popular uprising. The longer it goes on... You are | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
getting nervous? I am, quite frankly. I've always wondered, is | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
it a civil war popular uprising? It looks more like the former than the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
actor -- latter. As former defence secretary, you had to deal with the | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
top brass. Let me ask you two questions. Are the top brass are | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
more outspoken than ever before? In recent times, recent memory, in our | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
military? And was Mr Cameron right to a kind of slap them down? And I | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
put that in quotes. Yes, they are more outspoken, no, he was wrong to | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
slap them down. Nothing made me more annoyed than when the military | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
spoke out of turn, and they did occasionally. What I then did was I | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
summoned them for what was known as an interview without coffee. | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
show you were really, really angry question are privately, they would | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
come in and I would say, look, we are working together. We have made | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
our decisions jointly, we have some difficulties making the decisions. | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
We have made the decisions together and I don't expect you to speak out | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
of line. Because of their sense of honour, they found this terribly | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
embarrassing when they were caught out against the Secretary of State. | :29:53. | :30:01. | |
But I think they have to be done in The phrase, I'll to the talking, | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
they should to the fighting - was a mistake? I am afraid so. Kenneth | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
Clarke - we saw there on our film. You are a former Home Secretary, | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
you know what it's like. He's the Justice Secretary. He has a big | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
part of the responsibility as you have before it was split. Did you | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
see that U-turn coming? Did you understand that was what was going | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
to happen? Yes. I think this is different n the sense that Cameron | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
had a perfectly good afternoon. I didn't agree with it. He had a | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
perfectly good argument about putting more resources into | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
rehabilitation, et cetera. There's a �130 billion hole in his funding. | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
This was obviously thought through. This is a case where he just seemed | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
to be frightened of the tabloids. Frightened of the reaction. It | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
wasn't a case where he thought this is a genuine mistake. He'd... This | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
is the problem here, with that and the NHS. You cannot convince me | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
that the Prime Minister wasn't absolutely clear and supportive of | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
his Secretary of State going down that road. Now he's just pulled the | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
rug from under them. The problem is these U-turns don't solve the | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
problem. Having done a U-turn on the NHS, it has not solved the | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
problem. There's a �20 billion hole. In this case there's a �120 billion | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
black hole. These looming public sector strikes - do you agree with | :31:29. | :31:34. | |
Ed Balls that they are walking into a Government-laid trap? I think | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
they might be premature. My understanding is the negotiations, | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
they are putting a lot of effort into those negoshtkwraigss. No-one | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
from Will Hutton -- negotiations, no-one from Hutton to others are | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
not saying it is not serious. You have to be careful about the timing | :31:53. | :32:02. | |
of these disputes. They are well led by Brendan Barber. You are an | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
old union leader. Should Labour show more solidarity with the | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
unions in this? It is difficult, particularly when there is strike | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
action and people's services are being affected. I'm with the unions | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
on this. There is a good argument that we've done enough in terms of | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
pensions to reduce it as a proportion of GDP. Need to do more. | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
A 3% increase in contributions, which is a 50% in real terms, | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
increase in country buegs, means people will leave pension | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
schemes.Ly be the welfare bill which will have to step in. | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
Eventually the taxpayer will have to step in. Should Mr E Miliband be | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
allowed to appoint his own Shadow Cabinet? Absolutely. Are you with | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
him on that? Should have done it 15 years ago. You are not that happy! | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
Happy now. You know what people say? This week is the new | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
rock'n'roll. It wasn't always the case, you know. Michael and I have | :32:57. | :33:04. | |
paid our dues. For years we toured the nation in a battered touring | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
band, playing clubs to a handful of fans. It is a desire to make a | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
difference in our lives. Without a tail drooping anywhere in sight, | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
how times have changed! We used to do it just for kicks. Since the BBC | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
signed us ut, it's got so corporate, man. We decided to recreate some | :33:29. | :33:39. | |
:33:39. | :33:44. | ||
magic and put political music in As the mainstream hits the main | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
stage at Glastonbury, has modern music lost its political edge? | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
And the good old days the Sex Pistols, the Clash and Jam used | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
music as a tool for anti- establishment protest. At fst | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
values, they were a place -- at festivals, they were a place to | :34:06. | :34:14. | |
break free. As for fertility rights, naked dancing and the drug-taking. | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
As Michael Evis calls for the festival to re-claim its radical | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
roots, is the time changing or is the future of political music just | :34:24. | :34:32. | |
stuck in the mud? Well, am I glad I'm not there. Mr | :34:32. | :34:39. | |
Lee, thank you for joining us. This chap Michael Evis, who is Mr | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
Glastonbury in a way. He said this Glastonbury will be more political | :34:43. | :34:50. | |
- there's not much evidence, is there? The thing about Glastonbury, | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
it is such a Masai event, kit be all things to all people -- it can | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
be all things to all people. Everything to the right of the main | :34:58. | :35:05. | |
stage, there's young head onist dancing to fast music. To the left | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
there's fringe theatre and political debates, like the House | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
of Commons. I think you can make of it what you will. It is difficult | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
for it to be politicised in the way that festivals were in the 1970s | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
and 1980s. The kind of people who made them political do not exist | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
any more. They were put together and staff and patronised by hippies | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
and the peace convoy types who have been legislated out of existence. | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
Now when you look at that news footage of people wandering into | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
Glastonbury, they are Hunter, designer wellies. The amazing thing, | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
it has gone full circle. There'll be a protest, as I understand it, | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
this year. It will be a protest against Bono and U2 for not paying | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
enough taxes in Ireland T protest will come from the fans, not the | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
bands. That is absolutely brilian. One of the great things is -- | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
brilliant. One of the great things is unexpected things do happen. | :36:06. | :36:14. | |
Also, U2 are really good at working out what will be attention-grabbing. | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
Using Bono as a focus for tax evasion, given how many people do | :36:18. | :36:25. | |
it and given how corporations do it, is a hilarious thing to do. You are | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
an old rocker. I was a mod, not a rocker! | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
You're a rocker. Has music become less political? I don't think so. | :36:35. | :36:43. | |
There's a band called Everything, Everything; an album called Come | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
alive Diana. Our Diana? It's social observation. The worst political | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
songs are the ones that are, are the ones with politics written on | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
them, like the protest songs from the 60s. Elvis Costello's Ship | :36:59. | :37:07. | |
Building is where it is more subtle. I wonder whether the political | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
music owes its again sis to more austere times, divided times like | :37:13. | :37:21. | |
the 60s and the 707s? I think it does. It -- 70s. I think it does. | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
There are the opportunities for the cross-platforms. The Clash, their | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
thing was they wouldn't go on Top of the Pops T70 things was about | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
not selling out. Now bands think, how do we get on Top of the Pops, | :37:36. | :37:45. | |
how do we get stuff on a -- an advert? You are a major expert on | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
this - what is your view? We have at least ten seconds! My view is it | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
is puzzling that youth is so unpolitical at the moment. When you | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
think about all the provocations. You were mentioning more | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
ideologically divided times. There have been rarely more times than | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
now as in the United States. We fought wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
Libya. Yet nothing has happened N the 60s, the music and the feeling | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
of young people went hand in hand. In the United States in the 1960s, | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
students actually died in demonstrations. They were gunned | :38:22. | :38:30. | |
down. There was a big thing happening. There is no sign of life | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
in youth, politically speaking at all. When you talk about political | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
music, it's a one-party state. It's left-wing, political protest. Music | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
today is really corporate - it's business. They don't kind of go too | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
well together? It is still interesting. Political music used | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
to be of the left. It is strange now that because we have youthful | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
politicianen the right, they try to claim it and yet a lot of the bands | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
that David Cameron says he loves are forced to issue an official | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
statement saying they hope he stops listening to them. When David | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
Cameron tried to get photographed outside a Salford's lad's club, | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
Hazel Blears put the lain into action to make sure there was no | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
way he could stand outside it without there being a placard. It | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
is a weird thing. Shall we be honest - the sad truth is | :39:24. | :39:31. | |
Glastonbury is part of the summer season. It supthere with Ascot, | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
Wimbledon.... If people object to it, what is difference to ten years | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
ago is there are a vast majority of festivals. All over the countries, | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
there are different ones. Unlike Ascot they don't fight each other | :39:47. | :39:55. | |
with champagne bottles! Where does Wagner fit into this? | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
You are not referring to the one who died in the 180s? Not the one | :40:01. | :40:09. | |
that -- 1870s? Not that one. If you want to hear about political music | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
I will tell you about him. We have run out of time. We have a quiz. | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
You know we are all tennis-mad on This Week, we know the names of two | :40:20. | :40:27. | |
or three of the top players. That is that guy Borg somebody and | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
McEnroe, and Connors - we know them all. We think of not spending two | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
whole weeks every year for indulging our passion for all | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
things Wimbledon. How better than to get things flowing than a tennis | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
political quiz, with world number one Austin. Oh, yes, Tracey, first | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
question? When David Cameron challenged | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
British number one, Andy Murray to a tennis match, where did they | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
play? A, at Wimbledon? B, Queen's Club. C, Downing Street state | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
dining room? Answer? | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
Queen's Club. Let's get the right answer. The answer is, C, in the | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
Downing Street state dining, room, complete with chandelier. See how | :41:16. | :41:24. | |
useless they are. Another question. A City bankers paid �160,000 to | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
play tennis at Chequers with which politician? A, Winston Churchill. B | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
Margaret Thatcher or C Tony Blair? Tony Blair. | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
I think they have got this one. Give us the answer. The answer is, | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
of course, Tony Blair, at a charity auction in 2004. That was easy. | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
Let's see if we have the third question. When David Cameron played | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
Nick Clegg at tennis, David Cameron won. What did Cameron claim was the | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
reason for his victory? A, he was more wielly? B, a better cheat than | :42:01. | :42:07. | |
Nick Clegg? C, his racket was much bigger than Nick Clegg's? | :42:07. | :42:17. | |
Come on? A, wielly. The answer is? The answer is, A, he was more wiley | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
than Nick Clegg, as Nic is finding out to his cost in Government. | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
There you go. Better than usual. Thank you for | :42:24. | :42:31. | |
being with us. Thanks for having us. That's your lot for tonight. With | :42:31. | :42:38. | |
Glastonbury upon us, sit back and watch as the funkiest diva struts | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
her stuff. The biggest soul sister on planet Parliament didn't | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
disappoint. No, I am not talking about Beyonce. I don't know what | :42:46. | :42:53. | |
she is! I'm talking about Betty Boothroyd, when she took centre | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
stage to tear a strip. You could hear the Deputy Prime Minister | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
weeping all the way from his Downing Street broom cupboard. | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
Night, night, night, don't let the former Speaker of the House bite. | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
Our fatal flaw is we are not directly accountable to the British | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
people. That's absolutely true. Nor is the monarchy. Nor is the | :43:16. | :43:20. |