30/06/2011 This Week


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30/06/2011

A political review of the week presented by Andrew Neil, with Michael Portillo and guests.


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Tonight, we're building up to the big heavy weight title fight. Who

:00:21.:00:26.

will come out on top? The unions take on the Government

:00:26.:00:31.

over pensions. In the red corner - author and

:00:31.:00:34.

agitater Michael Rosen. Government and the public sector

:00:34.:00:41.

are squaring up for a fight and this is just round one. Brawling in

:00:41.:00:47.

the streets of at thens, but is there a winner?

:00:47.:00:55.

Adam Boulton shows us some moves. The Chinese General once said

:00:55.:01:05.
:01:05.:01:08.

"strategy without politics is the As both David Haye and Andy Murray

:01:08.:01:13.

get ready for the showdowns, what makes a real winner? Talent or

:01:14.:01:17.

self-believe? Jazzie B will be dancing like a butterfly.

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Appearing on this Week does wonders for my self-esteem.

:01:25.:01:34.

Ding-ding. Round one! Welcome to This Week. For those who

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can just about remember why we went to war in North Africa, a critical

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milestone has been reached. Arrest warrants from the International

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Criminal Courts and a threat to deploy Prince Harry's chopper in

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the nightclubs of Benghazi, last Monday marked the 100th day of

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NATO's military campaign to prevent Colonel Gaddafi attending the 2012

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Olympics. Although unseating the dictator has proved shifter than

:02:04.:02:08.

shifting tickets to handball events, let's not forget what we have

:02:08.:02:12.

achieved so far. Without the no-fly zone there's the chance we would

:02:12.:02:21.

have to see Colonel Gaddafi pitch his Bedouin tent on Centre Court

:02:21.:02:31.
:02:31.:02:31.

this week. Boy George Osborne, Merv the

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Governor King. It's not as though Europe is facing a crisis the size

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of Lembit Opik's asteroid. When Andy Murray is in sight of a

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Wimbledon final - C'mon Tim!. Oh, that's the other guy! Speaking of

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those who can take a day off work without anybody noticing in the

:02:54.:02:59.

slightest I am joined by two sickie-throwers, the Wayne and

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Waynetta Slob of late night political chat. I speak of Michael

:03:04.:03:09.

Portillo and stie Stewart, yet another flash -- Gisela Stewart,

:03:09.:03:19.
:03:19.:03:22.

yet another fashion clash. One has got a purple top and black bottom.

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Christine Lagard was appointed the head of the IMF. A decision I think

:03:26.:03:36.

will be disastrous for the world. Her first comment on being elected

:03:36.:03:41.

was about Greece. It was the comment made by someone who is a

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founding mother of this euro currency mess we are in. As far as

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the IMF is concerned, saving the euro or saving Greek membership is

:03:52.:03:57.

not the priority. The IMF's priority so to do the best deal to

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make sure we don't get global meltdown. If that means the Greek

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and the Irish leaving, so be it. I think she is the wrong choice. I am

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very sorry that George Osborne welcomed her to the job. I am

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fascinated by that moment. The consensus is she will be great.

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That is well done. You have given us food for thought. Good! Do you

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know what she used to be? What she used to be! She used to be a

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synchronised swimmer. I am glad it was not a quiz question. We have

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that coming up. Your moment, Gisela? The continued failure by

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the Prime Minister to keep Mrs Bowen better. This is the wife of

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the Conservative backbencher. showed Cameron's ability to really

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respond to humour and to be fair him together with Natasha chair the

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backbench committee which had its first year. I was sceptical to

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begin with. They have made an extraordinary success of that

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committee. I am prepared to give him a lot of credit. He brought

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humour to the House. Also allowed the backbenchers, as part of his

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work, to be much more forceful than they have been hither to. The House

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:05:30.:05:31.

of Commons operates with catch faces in the -- catchphrases in the

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House of Commons. David Aimish used to say "the people in bas dil son."

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And every time he said "Basildon" people used to cheer. Do not adjust

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your set. That is the colour they are wearing! Nothing wrong with

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that. Now, imagine a workplace riddled

:05:59.:06:05.

with sexual frustration, raging hormones. Stop laughing. Where

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people draw Willies in tip pex. It's not the This Cap week office.

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Michael was in tears when he saw what Gisela had done to his justice

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Bieber pencil case. He does have one! I am talking about schools. I

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am working in conditions for immense rebellions. Teachers went

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on strike, closing thousands of schools across England and Wales.

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Former laurri yet and occasional teacher, Michael Rosen, he went on

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:06:50.:06:55.

the picket line. My parents were both teachers, so I

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grew up with an enormous amount of respect and admiration for the

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profession. I go into schools and colleges all the time, including

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this one, so I see how difficult it is, the job that teachers do and

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how valuable that is. Teachers develop young people. They

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give them the skills they will need if they are going to go to work and

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that we need for the economy. They help create tolerance, socially-

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minded people, again that will lead in a future society. That is what

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:07:37.:07:40.

we owe to teachers. This Government's attack on

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teachers' pensions is part of a broader, full-frontal assault on

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the public sector. This Government thinks that private equals good,

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:07:58.:07:58.

They think if they can portray the teachers as greedy with their gold

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plated pensions, they can drive a wedge between the public sector

:08:02.:08:12.
:08:12.:08:15.

workers and the rest of the public. But the private sector can't

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replace the public sector. Chart ty, no good for delivering a universal

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free education service. What they deliver is something piecemeal,

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which ends up excluding people. We need a secure, well-paid public

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sector. I don't know if these strikes will work. I certainly hope

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so. I hope that everyone will support the public sector unions

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and what they're doing today. It would be great if the Labour Party

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leadership would support these strieblgs. I am not holding --

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strike. I am not holding my breath on that one. It is time we valued

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the public sector and stood up to the Government when they attack it.

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Michael Rosen, straight from that picket line in north-east London

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now joins us in our own revolting Westminster studio. Good evening.

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Are you saying that there is no problem whatsoever with public

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sector pensions? I think really it is actually Lord Hutton who

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suggested there wasn't much problem with it. He would like to import,

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he suggested it was a good idea importing a certain amount of

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private pensions into the matter. It was his words who said it was

:09:30.:09:33.

affordable. Its is his graph that caused the problem. He said they

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were unfair? He said that it is affordable. If they are affordable

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they are affordable. I will come on, the Government may have taken a

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wrong turn on this issue of affordable because of that very

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graph. I have interviewed Government ministers this week and

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cannot get an answer out of them on that at all. Maybe they didn't read

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it. You are not saying politicians sign things that they have not read,

:09:57.:10:02.

other than their expenses! On the fairness issue, is it fair to ask

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the general taxpayer to subsidise, through their taxes, more generous

:10:09.:10:12.

pensions in the public sector than they on average enjoy themselves

:10:13.:10:18.

a way it's the wrong way to frame it, isn't it? What is the general

:10:18.:10:23.

taxpayer doing? They subsidise the rich and super rich with their

:10:23.:10:31.

subsidies for their own pensions. Yes, if you take someone like Mr

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Fred Goodwin, with his �700,000 pension a year, as he saupbltered

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away he was getting tax relief on that. The general public don't like

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that either. The average public pension is higher than the average

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private sector pension. Outside of local Government they are not self-

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financing. The general taxpayer is paying for these pensions. That's

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an argument for the private sector workers to have fought harder to

:11:03.:11:06.

defend their pensions. This is one of the richest countries in the

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world. The issue is the distribution of money, it's the

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distribution of money, not whether one group is subsidising another

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group of workers. We have tax avoidance. There is massive wealth

:11:20.:11:25.

in this country. That is where we should be looking. Mr Brown took

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�100 million out of private sector pensions, that is why they are

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worse than public sector pensions. It is not something I would have

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supported. I am not here to defend the Labour Party, as you may have

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noticed. Let's see if Michael will defend the Conservatives. The

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Government did have that change tack, the unaffordable claim, we

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all produce this graph from the Hutton Report showing as a

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percentage of GDP, the cost of public sector pensions declined

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over time. It peaked last year at just under 2%. They are saying it

:12:03.:12:07.

is untenable, rather than unaffordable. It was a mistake to

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say unaffordable? It was the wrong line. I think the line, any way,

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that resonates more, is that it is unfair. We've seen today members of

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the public interviewed. They have said I have gone through it with my

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private sector pension, I don't see why public sector pensions should

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be so generous. The National Audit Office. That is why the graph is

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going down. They approved it. have been changes, perfectly true.

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They have taken a hit. In terms of the comparison, there is still a

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big gap. One is the gap in the extension of provision. The second

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is the extent of the coverage. gap is widening. If you have taken

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the big hit, you are in the private sector. That is not an argument

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that the public sector ought to as well. This is the so-called race to

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a bottom. You have the idea that we are a rich country and if our

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public spending goes on we will get richer. We are not as rich as we

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used to be. If the.... Sixth richest in the world. We were

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fourth. That is my point. We are going down the scale. If we keep

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increasing public sending or not dealing the problems we will go

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down the scale further. If it is re-phrased as "unfair" rather than

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"unaffordable," does that make it a more compelling argument. It is a

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more compelling argument that we need change. You cannot deny the

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fact that we all need to work longer. We need to move to averages

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in terms of pensions rather than:.: So you say, in a school that what

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we want is 66 year olds, 67 year olds, 68 year olds. I with us in a

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school yesterday. I did two-and-a- half hours in a school. I was

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shattered. I am 65. If you say teachers could be 66 and 67. I have

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young children. I don't want them taught by shattered teachers.

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Someone has to generate the wealth to fund our pensions. We have to

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look at how to make it a fairer system. I don't think it is fair.

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It is not right to, have as your starting point to have a strike and

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:14:32.:14:34.

a walkout. I don't think that was This Michael first, has David

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Cameron got the stomach to fight the unions? I think he has and

:14:38.:14:41.

particularly they have begun so badly. They began with a strike at

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the wrong time. They have only probably got a fifth of the civil

:14:47.:14:52.

servants out on strike today or maybe fewer. So it's begun badly.

:14:52.:14:57.

It is quite an interesting tragedy. Both sides have made drastic

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mistakes. The Government has made the wrong argument. The Chief

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Secretary of the Treasury provoked the unions and now the unions have

:15:05.:15:15.
:15:15.:15:22.

gone off half-cock. I interviewed the Prime Minister - and although

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he talks about negotiations going on, they aren't prepared to do this.

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Are the unions up for a strike? not that near to the unions to know.

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You were on the picket line, though? On the ground, people are

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very angry. This is an unfair society that coming out of this

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crisis, the economic crisis, the rich are in fact doing very well.

:15:49.:15:55.

They are recouping their losses. They are being asked to - they are

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asked to make the sacrifices where the super-rich are doing very well.

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There is a question of how you respond to that anger and you put

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it right. The unions are probably walking into a trap here by evoking

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all kinds of images of the '80s, the battle... Neither of you

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support the unions. Hold on. are not exactly doing it from a

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point of view of supporting them. Ed Miliband has not been vocal...

:16:25.:16:29.

No, no, we can go back to the miners' strike. The Labour Party

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leadership didn't support the miners. It's a completely different

:16:37.:16:43.

argument. Depends which aspect of the world... Michael... A massive

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amount of wealth is made in this country and poverty, nothing has

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changed. We are in the process of putting legislation through where

:16:51.:16:58.

we take child benefit away from anyone who earns over �40,000.

:16:58.:17:04.

Quite frankly, to call out teachers and lose a day at school and stop

:17:04.:17:08.

people, single parents going to work because we are angry was not

:17:08.:17:14.

the right... It was too early. is their livelihoods over the whole

:17:14.:17:18.

of their lifetimes. All right. You have both made your cases very

:17:18.:17:27.

clearly for our viewers to decide. Viewers in a sense - public opinion

:17:27.:17:30.

has a big impact on strikes. Where do you think public opinion is now?

:17:30.:17:36.

I am assuming this will not be resolved by the autumn and it will

:17:36.:17:45.

kick-off again in a bigger fashion. Where will it be in the autumn?

:17:45.:17:55.
:17:55.:17:57.

depends to what extent the union leaders decide to say where we

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stand. These people at the other end of society are making millions

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of money and they are not greedy. They are supposed to have the

:18:07.:18:10.

incentives. People need incentives to go into a classroom and teach.

:18:10.:18:13.

They need to know that their life is secure and that when they work

:18:13.:18:16.

at the end of 40 years work they will get a decent pension.

:18:17.:18:23.

Otherwise we will lose them. We will have worst teachers. Thank you

:18:23.:18:29.

very much. Now, a great spiritual leader once

:18:29.:18:32.

observed, "You yourself - as much as anybody in the entire universe -

:18:32.:18:38.

deserve your love and affection." Although it sounds like something

:18:38.:18:41.

Michael said during his power- hungry personality cult phase, it

:18:41.:18:47.

is in fact one of the sayings of the Buddha! So, in the spirit of

:18:47.:18:50.

Zen, for which we are known, stick around because British soul master

:18:50.:18:53.

Jazzie B will be joining us to talk about the power of self-esteem and

:18:53.:18:59.

the dangers of self-love. And after former BBC Chairman Michael Grade

:18:59.:19:02.

claimed making a complaint to the BBC was a "grisly and 'hopeless"

:19:02.:19:05.

business we'd like to point him in the direction of our own puddle of

:19:05.:19:08.

filth, otherwise known as the Viewers' Comments section on our

:19:08.:19:14.

interweb page. Or - just like the Pope - you can sign up and follow

:19:14.:19:19.

us in the twittersphere. "A disgrace", "unhelpful and ill-

:19:19.:19:26.

informed", "he should be ashamed of himself." No, not another selection

:19:26.:19:29.

of your comments - that's how the head of one teaching union, Mary

:19:29.:19:34.

Bousted, described Ed Miliband today. And she's not the only one

:19:34.:19:39.

getting shirty this week. On his visit to the UK the Chinese

:19:39.:19:42.

President ticked off Sky's Adam Boulton for daring to ask a

:19:42.:19:47.

question about human rights! So we asked the man himself for his

:19:47.:19:50.

round-up of the week at Westminster - Adam Boulton that is, not Wen

:19:50.:20:00.
:20:00.:20:35.

Hello, I'm in training. I may be one of two journalists permitted to

:20:35.:20:38.

question the Chinese Prime Minister this week, but it would seem I have

:20:38.:20:45.

still got a lot to learn. Do you accept as is often argued here if

:20:45.:20:49.

China is the continue its impressive economic progress it

:20:49.:20:55.

will have to make progress on both human rights and democracy?

:20:56.:21:01.

TRANSLATION: Your question struck me that you may have not made very

:21:01.:21:11.
:21:11.:21:11.

I was only trying to be polite. Perhaps 5,000 years of Chinese

:21:11.:21:17.

culture have got something to teach us. After all, it was the Chinese

:21:17.:21:23.

military scholar who said "strategy without tactics are the slow route

:21:23.:21:27.

to victory, tactics without strategy are the noise of defeat".

:21:27.:21:36.

Come to think of it, that sounds like Westminster in a typical week!

:21:36.:21:40.

At least I gave David Cameron something to chuckle about in a

:21:40.:21:44.

difficult week. The Tories like to consider themselves party of Queen,

:21:44.:21:50.

country and the forces. This week, military top brass were demoted

:21:50.:21:58.

from the top table while the real fighting was on the streets.

:21:58.:22:02.

those considering strike action at a time when discussions are ongoing,

:22:02.:22:08.

I would say to you these strikes are wrong for you, for the people

:22:08.:22:16.

you serve, for the good of the country. Men's natures are alike,

:22:16.:22:21.

it is their habits that cast them far apart. Take public sector

:22:21.:22:26.

strikes, easy for Conservatives to condemn, Liberal Democrats to lie

:22:26.:22:30.

low, but tricky for union-backed Labour. I don't think political

:22:30.:22:35.

leaders in opposition or in Government should applaud strikes

:22:35.:22:45.
:22:45.:22:46.

or condemn strikes. He who is ignorant both of himself and his

:22:46.:22:52.

enemy is truly in peril so the Labour Leader took a different line.

:22:52.:22:55.

I do think the strikes are a mistake. They shouldn't be going

:22:55.:22:58.

ahead because they will inconvenience parents and children.

:22:58.:23:02.

Public sector pensions do need to be reformed. The Government has got

:23:02.:23:05.

to take its share of responsibility because they have gone about these

:23:05.:23:10.

negotiations in quite a provocative way. My message to both sides is

:23:10.:23:20.
:23:20.:23:23.

get round the negotiating table. Miliband switched to another

:23:23.:23:27.

subject - NHS reform. The whole country will have heard that he has

:23:27.:23:31.

admitted they are spending �852 million on making people redundant

:23:31.:23:37.

and he can't promise they want be rehired to do their old jobs.

:23:37.:23:42.

who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words

:23:42.:23:50.

good. David Cameron struck back on strikes. What the whole country

:23:50.:23:54.

will have noticed is that a time when people are worried about

:23:54.:23:58.

strikes, he can't ask about strikes because he's in the pocket of the

:23:58.:24:08.
:24:08.:24:22.

unions. The master also said he who will not economise must agonise.

:24:22.:24:31.

Greece voted through its austerity package. Saving the euro was

:24:31.:24:36.

priority number one for the new IMF chief. Yet another French person.

:24:36.:24:40.

David Cameron stuck the to his guns, no more British cash for Greece and

:24:40.:24:49.

certainly not for the EU budget. Mrs Bone wanted to know whether if

:24:49.:24:54.

a bail-out came before 2013, despite qualifying majority voting,

:24:54.:24:58.

Britain would vote no in any case. I know that she would be very happy

:24:58.:25:01.

if the Prime Minister give that undertaking and it would be helpful

:25:01.:25:07.

for the Bone household if he could. I do feel now that a very big part

:25:07.:25:17.
:25:17.:25:19.

of my life is trying to give pleasure to Mrs Bone! LAUGHTER

:25:19.:25:29.
:25:29.:25:31.

feel on this occasion I can only go so far. There was bad news on the

:25:31.:25:34.

home front for the party of law- and-order. Burglaries and robberies

:25:34.:25:40.

are up in the recession according to latest statistics. Old master

:25:40.:25:48.

Ken Clarke reached for his art of war who said, "He who is pruden and

:25:48.:25:53.

waits for an enemy who is not will be victorious" - or to put it

:25:53.:25:58.

another way, bash a burglar. can hit the borrowing lar with the

:25:58.:26:02.

poker if he is in the house and you -- burglar with the poker if he is

:26:03.:26:11.

in the house and you will have a reasonable defence if you do so.

:26:11.:26:15.

For me, annoying the Prime Minister of China, seems easier than getting

:26:15.:26:23.

a visa to visit the middle kingdom. Then forget injuries but always

:26:24.:26:33.
:26:34.:26:45.

Thank you. You wouldn't want to hit him with a poker. Greece, we saw it

:26:45.:26:50.

unfold in Parliament and on the streets. What did you make of it

:26:50.:26:56.

all? As I said last week, we are heading for disaster, I fear. This

:26:56.:26:59.

is a huge threat to the British economy, a huge threat to the world

:26:59.:27:05.

economy. There is no medium or long-term plan. There simply is

:27:05.:27:10.

another buy-out for a brief period of time. What the Greeks are being

:27:10.:27:14.

asked to do is unaffordable. I can't see how they can survive.

:27:14.:27:19.

This will lead to some meltdown. What we have done, not we, but what

:27:19.:27:24.

the European Union has done this week is simply buy time? It hasn't

:27:24.:27:28.

in any way resolved what's happened? It is worse than that.

:27:28.:27:34.

Worse? It's thrown good money after bad and it's in a state of complete

:27:34.:27:37.

denial and the responsible thing would be for the Commission to sit

:27:37.:27:41.

down and draw up plans for a legal framework which would allow a

:27:41.:27:46.

country, whether it is Greece or otherwise, to leave the euro so you

:27:46.:27:50.

can resolve it. The Maastricht Treaty never made any provision for

:27:50.:27:58.

a country to leave the eurozone? was seen as the project, it will

:27:58.:28:02.

only advance if nobody is allowed to leave the European Union or the

:28:02.:28:09.

eurozone. We have a political aspiration that is deaf and blind

:28:09.:28:14.

to reality. Who will pay the price? The poor people on the streets will

:28:14.:28:17.

find their savings are worth nothing. What I would say is (a)

:28:17.:28:21.

I'm staggered that both the House of Commons and the government is

:28:21.:28:25.

not much firmer to demand that we draw up plans. I'm staggered that

:28:25.:28:30.

the Prime Minister did not respond when I raised with him Article

:28:30.:28:32.

Provisions which would allow the European Union to impose currency

:28:32.:28:37.

restrictions in the case of an emergency. I just find it

:28:37.:28:41.

unbelievable that across Europe everybody keeps pretending that if

:28:41.:28:45.

only they cut their taxes and public spending, it will be all

:28:45.:28:52.

right. It won't. You are German in origin. It is said that the average

:28:52.:28:56.

German is now up to here with the thought of a further bail-out to

:28:56.:28:59.

Greece or Portugal or Ireland or Spain. Is that right? What do you

:28:59.:29:03.

think of the modern euro country? Not only are they up to here with

:29:03.:29:10.

that notion, but also in the past, Germany used to be able to purchase

:29:10.:29:15.

agreement. They aren't sufficiently successful that they could afford

:29:15.:29:21.

to do this. There is a lack of political will. As I look at it, I

:29:21.:29:27.

have been following this closely, everybody knows that this extra

:29:27.:29:32.

money isn't going to help the situation because there's a senior

:29:32.:29:37.

banker, he said to me today that Greece is insolvent. Yes. Yet, the

:29:37.:29:41.

price Greece is being asked to pay will never be carried out. As I

:29:41.:29:47.

understand it, a board of non- Greeks has been created to sell off

:29:47.:29:55.

50 billion euros worth of Greek assets. Greece's airports and

:29:55.:30:02.

buildings. That is not going to work? When I was arguing 15 years

:30:02.:30:10.

ago with Ken Clarke that there were issues of sovereignty, he laughed.

:30:10.:30:17.

It is clear there are issues of sovereignty. It is a battle state.

:30:17.:30:23.

The money which we are pumping is going in to save the euro. Greece

:30:23.:30:28.

is indeed insolvent. The European leaders want to save the euro

:30:28.:30:32.

project at all cost. The British Government is concerned only to

:30:32.:30:35.

make the childish point that we are not going to pay anything for the

:30:35.:30:39.

bail-out. The serious point is that this thing is a phenomenal threat

:30:39.:30:49.
:30:49.:30:50.

It would mean David Cameron should consider taking a position, perhaps

:30:50.:30:55.

the IMF and American health as well to try and -- help as well, to try

:30:55.:30:59.

and knock heads together. I would not bother with the IMF now. It is

:30:59.:31:04.

led by Christine Lagarde. I forgot about the new line of the IMF, you

:31:04.:31:11.

only told me a few moments ago. IMF going into Greece, what its

:31:11.:31:17.

traditional package is countries in trouble, you increase taxes, cut

:31:17.:31:22.

public sending -- spending and devalue currency. The IMF in terms

:31:22.:31:26.

of its normal roles, knows that this package will not work because

:31:27.:31:31.

the third element is not there for Greece. We will keep an eye on this

:31:31.:31:39.

as the weeks go by. It is a long way to go yet. It's staggering the

:31:39.:31:42.

House of Commons is not discussing this. The leader of the House of

:31:42.:31:48.

Commons says debate on Europe are backbench business. It didn't come

:31:48.:31:52.

up at Prime Minister's Questions. Speaking of PMQs, the Ed Miliband

:31:52.:31:56.

tactic now, which he did for a third week in a row of picking a

:31:56.:31:59.

specific detail. He thinks the Prime Minister is weak on detail,

:31:59.:32:02.

so he goes for a detail hoping to catch the Prime Minister out.

:32:02.:32:05.

Actually, sometimes he does. Sometimes it is clear the Prime

:32:06.:32:10.

Minister is not across these details. I suggest to you though

:32:10.:32:14.

that there may be diminishing returns to this, that most think

:32:14.:32:17.

the Prime Minister cannot be expected to know everything and

:32:17.:32:21.

there's a kind of Oxford debating union trick about this, which

:32:21.:32:26.

people won't like. The week before last, it was a detail on a point

:32:26.:32:32.

that was highly political. It was a political issue and Cameron, who

:32:32.:32:35.

usually does not look at his notes started to flick through them and

:32:35.:32:41.

showed a weakness. It only works as a detail in relation to something

:32:41.:32:46.

big. This week it did not work. The world around us is in a state of

:32:46.:32:53.

collapse. There are strikes, the economic crisis. He was going on

:32:53.:32:58.

about the NHS. It seemed irrelevant. As a Government you don't want to

:32:58.:33:03.

get a reputation of ministers not knowing the details. And over this

:33:03.:33:08.

pension thing, ministers have looked like they don't know the

:33:08.:33:13.

basic argument. Mr Maude on the Today Programme.... Painful... I

:33:13.:33:18.

think we should pass over it. loved it. It was great! I would

:33:18.:33:23.

like to re-play it a couple of times! You can do that on the BBC

:33:23.:33:26.

iPlayer. The Speaker gave the Prime Minister a bit of stick today. In

:33:26.:33:32.

fact he gave it to him yesterday, gave it twice to him, but what does

:33:32.:33:39.

the Commons think of the Speaker Bercow now? In general? To be

:33:39.:33:42.

absolutely honest, I think in terms of statement, if you are there, you

:33:43.:33:47.

know you're going to get called, it's much more predictable. He has

:33:47.:33:50.

done what he said he would set out to do and make sure the

:33:50.:33:57.

backbenchers get more of a voice. I think the new intake... He's had

:33:57.:34:01.

more support than not? When push comes down to shove he comes down

:34:01.:34:09.

on the side of the backbenchers. Questions about Ken Clarke, fellow

:34:09.:34:16.

Cambridge graduate as well. Is it wise for politicians to say, it's

:34:16.:34:23.

all right for a burglar to whack -- it's all right to whack a burglar

:34:23.:34:29.

with a poker. Also, who, here's the big political question of the week,

:34:29.:34:39.
:34:39.:34:39.

who has a poker in 2011? That's a very good point. Who has Hush

:34:39.:34:46.

Puppies in 2011. They go together. I had my head many my hands.

:34:46.:34:50.

Firstly, the point you made, it's not for Government ministers to say

:34:50.:34:53.

hitting someone with a poker who has come through your front door is

:34:53.:34:58.

the correct thing to do. It must be so far from what Ken Clarke

:34:58.:35:02.

believes and thinks. He must think it is a piece of nonsense. Poor Ken,

:35:02.:35:07.

he is standing on his head twice a week, it's not a comfortable

:35:07.:35:15.

position. I go to bed with a poker in one hand, hush huppis on the end

:35:15.:35:22.

of the bed. -- hush puppies on the end of the

:35:22.:35:27.

bed. If you like what you see in the political mirror, there are few

:35:27.:35:33.

better places to pollish it than in the This Week sofa, or as Diane

:35:33.:35:38.

Abbott thinks, the political Siberia, otherwise known as the

:35:38.:35:41.

shadow public health team. It made us think about the importance of

:35:41.:35:45.

assessing one's talents and thoughts. After we picked ourselves

:35:45.:35:50.

up from our fit of despair, we decided to put self-esteem in this

:35:50.:36:00.
:36:00.:36:02.

I'm the real champion. There'll never be one like me. I will prove

:36:02.:36:09.

I'm the greatest. I'm going to eat raw meat. I'm going to get ready.

:36:09.:36:13.

You could never accuse heavy weight boxers of lacking in self-esteem.

:36:13.:36:18.

As David Haye prepares for the biggest fight of his life, he knows

:36:18.:36:22.

that humility is rarely regarded in -- rewarded in the ring. I cannot

:36:22.:36:27.

wait to get in there and do what I've got to do. Andy Murray claims

:36:27.:36:33.

the harder he works, the luckier he gets and believes he has what it

:36:33.:36:42.

takes to reach a Wimbledon final. Just to understand... Jamie Oliver

:36:42.:36:47.

asked a group of failing students to be taken on. Too little, or

:36:47.:36:52.

centre stage. For me, the discipline, it was easy. Just how

:36:52.:36:57.

important is a healthy assessment of your own abilities and talents?

:36:57.:37:02.

Can it spur you on to success, and help fulfil your dreams, or blind

:37:02.:37:09.

you to your faults and fill an overinflated ego?

:37:09.:37:13.

Sorry about that so late at night - it has probably frightened you.

:37:13.:37:17.

Come out from behind the sofa. It is all right. We won't bite. Jazzie

:37:17.:37:23.

B, welcome. When you started out, were you aware of the talents you

:37:23.:37:27.

thought you had and the faults you thought you had? I think when I

:37:27.:37:33.

started out I was very fortunate because of my parents instilled so

:37:33.:37:39.

much in regards to my confidence, et cetera, et cetera. Then I had a

:37:39.:37:44.

fantastic time at school. I had some great teachers, who also

:37:44.:37:48.

encouraged that. So, some might say I might be slightly overconfident

:37:48.:37:54.

in certain areas, where that could be a help as well as a hinder repbs.

:37:54.:37:59.

You probably need that in your business. The background of parents

:37:59.:38:03.

and teachers gave you a healthy sense of self-esteem. I would like

:38:03.:38:09.

to believe so. Not an overblown one? Come from a large family, you

:38:09.:38:14.

get put in your place, you know often enough. That also helps.

:38:14.:38:19.

have to eat quickly. You have to eat quickly. Who wears the right

:38:19.:38:24.

sized shoes, et cetera, et cetera. All those things helped in regards

:38:24.:38:27.

to my personal confidence. There are often, I have met a lot of

:38:27.:38:34.

people from various walks, who seem to be over confident and sometimes

:38:34.:38:40.

that may be over-compensating for their insecurities. When you dealt

:38:40.:38:47.

with kids in Jamie Oliver's dream school, you were a teacher along

:38:47.:38:53.

with others, Alister Campbell. David Starky. They have all been on

:38:53.:38:56.

this programme, which is why they have self-esteem. Tell me, these

:38:56.:39:00.

kids, because there were some difficult ones, did they suffer

:39:00.:39:06.

from a lack or in some cases too much self-esteem that wasn't

:39:06.:39:10.

justified? Some of them, the majority of them who, which I think

:39:10.:39:16.

most people who saw the programme would know, those who, yes, had too

:39:16.:39:21.

much and maybe believed that the world owed them something, and for

:39:21.:39:26.

my measure I believe a lot of that is because of the lack of self-

:39:26.:39:31.

esteem. So, often enough the bravado they come up and I'm this

:39:31.:39:35.

and I'm that, and maybe attacking you before you've actually finished

:39:35.:39:41.

the sentence, shows a level of insecurity. Yes. I see in a sense

:39:41.:39:45.

it's the lack of self-esteem that makes them give the impression they

:39:45.:39:50.

are full of self-esteem. Absolutely. That can be a very, very dangerous

:39:50.:39:55.

combination. How would you describe your self-esteem, Michael? I would

:39:55.:39:59.

describe it as Jazzie B did. It was my parents, it was my school that

:39:59.:40:03.

gave me that confidence. I remember a time when I didn't have so much

:40:03.:40:07.

confidence. I was in a house surrounded by books, but for

:40:07.:40:11.

instance I didn't know at one time I would go to university. I didn't

:40:11.:40:15.

know I would go to Cambridge. I have been surprised at every move

:40:15.:40:19.

along the way. I observed that a big difference between people who

:40:19.:40:24.

succeed and people who don't is not necessarily a gap between the gap

:40:24.:40:28.

between the successful and the lack of talent of the unsuccessful. The

:40:28.:40:33.

striking thing is self-esteem of the security and the lack of self-

:40:33.:40:38.

esteem of the less successful. That is a big factor. People who do well,

:40:38.:40:42.

a lot of them go around pinching themselves every day. When I was in

:40:42.:40:49.

Cabinet I used to pinch myself. Am I really....? Is this really many?

:40:49.:40:55.

Is that me? You think, "What am I doing here?" Would you like to

:40:55.:41:01.

complete this hat trick of people who have self-esteem? It does start

:41:01.:41:05.

at home in the sense that you grow up and there's a safe environment

:41:05.:41:12.

in that sense. The other thing is learning from mistakes, from

:41:12.:41:18.

reallyence to recover. That is bgs realistic about yourself. I

:41:18.:41:24.

benefited greatly, it is incredibly liberating. Half the rules you

:41:24.:41:28.

break because you don't know they are there. The other half you break

:41:28.:41:35.

and get away with it. It is changing your background sometimes

:41:35.:41:41.

is also good. Do you think it is a problem for boys more than girls?

:41:41.:41:48.

What I am worried about is boys between 11hf17.

:41:48.:41:55.

It's a mix of the two. What is per pech waited in the media for girls.

:41:55.:42:00.

It is dangerous. Having two children myself who are, one is a

:42:00.:42:03.

right teenager as it were and one is moving on. It's interesting to

:42:03.:42:11.

see that, plus come from a large family, I've a snapshot or even a

:42:11.:42:16.

bird's eye view of the differences of the males and females. Going

:42:16.:42:19.

through interesting times right now, as well as living with technology,

:42:19.:42:25.

et cetera, et cetera. There's always that, a huge element of

:42:25.:42:29.

doubt, and then a huge one of self- belief. It's trying to get that

:42:29.:42:36.

right, that you know, the guys I think, I'll stick my neck out and

:42:36.:42:41.

say, yeah, they probably suffer a lot more, as well as that idea of

:42:41.:42:49.

who is the alpha male? Particularly with the schooling systems. Then,

:42:49.:42:55.

we're looking at society now, where a lot of boys are failing in

:42:55.:43:01.

various aspects of that as well. Interesting times. It is a problem

:43:01.:43:07.

for both of them. What are you up to? I'm about to join Jamie Oliver

:43:07.:43:13.

on the Big Festival tomorrow on Clapham common. I'm looking forward

:43:13.:43:20.

to that. Soul to Soul has been back on tour. We have been touring since

:43:20.:43:24.

March. Onwards and upwards. With a healthy self-east steam following

:43:24.:43:30.

you. Jazzie B, thank you for coming in tonight. Staying up until this

:43:30.:43:35.

unGodly hour! It's a perfect time for me. That's your lot for tonight.

:43:35.:43:40.

We leave you with a thought. The Chinese Prime Minister visited the

:43:40.:43:46.

UK this week, he confirmed the loan of two giant pandas to Edinburgh

:43:46.:43:52.

Zoo. Yes, the so-called panda diplomacy. The practise of shipping

:43:52.:44:00.