03/11/2011 This Week

Tonight, This Week remembers Sir Jimmy Saville and asks for his help.

Dear Jim, please, please, please, help us fix Greece and the eurozone

crisis. Journalists and commentator Mary-

Ann see Sieghart gets her wish to take part in a Greek tragedy.

eurozone is facing its worst crisis in its history. At least since last

week. Now then, now then guys and gals,

this is from Lambeth Palace: Please ask God to make the protesters go

away. From Rome, 6 1 and a half. Diane Louise Jordan thinks she can

help. Whilst the church can't wish the protesters away, it needs to

reach out and stand up for what it really believes in. Goodness

gracious, as it happens, what made Jimmy Saville make people's dreams

come true and what made three Pakistani cricketers throw their

dreams away. We look at motivation, the Strictly phenomenon Nancy

Dell'Olio. I'm really looking forward to coming on to This Week,

especially to dance my tango with Andrew. How's about that then?!

Evening, all. Welcome to This Week, the show which knows as much about

Party Politics as Pippa Middleton does about party planning, which

fortunately for us sets the bar comfortably low. Unlike her, we

don't have to write a book about it. Even we couldn't miss the launch of

the coalition's eye-catching, much- anticipated growth strategy, or to

give it its official title, the high-viz jacket strategy. There

comes a time in every faultering Government with the economy tanking

and the price of fizzy German wine rocketing when Cabinet members are

suddenly spotted in a procession of day glow work wear outfits and

goofy safety glasses designed to give the impression that they

really do know what they're doing. First up This Week was Boy George

in the luminous pink health and safety anorak. Who gave a less than

convincing emprition that he understood what that nice working

class chap from Network Rail told him about this latest engineering

thingy. Then Nick Clegg popped up at Sheffield Forge Masters

Steelworks looking like Eddie the Eagle to announce a �36 million

loan to the company just 16 months after the coalition cancelled an

�80 million loan to the very same company.

But, 16 months ago, Mr Clegg's constituents quite liked him. Yes,

nothing makes a politician happier than using our money to buy them

votes. Speaking of bare faced cheek, I'm joined by two of Westminster's

most shameless self-publicists. Think of them as the Katie Price

and Peter Andre of late-night political chat and you can decide

which is which. I speak of course of Michael Portillo and Alastair

Campbell. Good Evening, gentlemen. Hello, an true. Michael, your

moment? I'm very interested in the way national sovereignty is being

eroded. There was the spectacle of Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy

berating the Greek Prime Minister for having the cheek to consider

that he should ask his people what they thought of the deal. But also,

I'm very interested, it's clear that Merkel and Sarkozy have been

making telephone calls to other politicians in Greece. I was very

struck that at dawn this morning, suddenly the Greek Finance Minister

comes out and announces that he's against the referendum which made

the referendum collapse. It just makes you wonder whether these

people inside Greece now, their strings with being pulled by the

elite in Brussels or, as they are this week, in Cannes.

By the Presidents and the Chancellor? You may say that.

Suppose it's better than invading telephone calls. Alastair, your

moment? It was going to be about the Greek crisis until I went to

the green room and Nancy jumped all over me. So that's now my moment of

the week. Glad you've got over it It was lovely but my moment of the

week was actually watching the arrivals at the G20 today and

hearing them being described as the 20 most powerful leaders in the

world at a time when they looked and seemed to feel absolutely

powerless. The sight of Barack Obama and the Chinese Prime

Minister and all these guys actually really, really caring

about what was happening within the Greek political system and you just

had a sense of this crisis kind of lurching out of control and no

sense of where the control is going to come from. They've essentially

wasted their carbon footprint. We'll talk more about that. Because

regular viewers know that here on This Week, we've been very

concerned about the welfare of Tristram and Arabella and all their

chums hanging out at St Paul's. Oh yar. We are thrilled the

authorities said they can keep their tents up until the New Year.

All very cosy there now the old druid of Canterbury reaches them

every night. We've asked Songs of Praise host Diane Louise Jordan to

head down to St Paul's and give us Well, it's not been a great week

for the Church of England. The protesters camped here at St Paul's

have grabbed the headlines and the agenda. But the question is, have

they thrown, not just this cathedral, but the entire Anglican

Church into chaos? As a Christian, I'm deeply

disappointed that the cathedral initially behaved like a self-

interested dinosaur whose first reaction was to bolt its doors and

consult its lawyers. From a PR perspective, it's not

been great. It would seem that the cathedral's been much more

concerned about how much it's losing in the gift shop than at the

very least engaging with the world The ka had to ral could have

avoided all this criticism heaped on it instead if it flung open its

doors and connected with the protestors and listened to their

concerns whrrbgs that be about unfairness, bankers' bonuses or

city greed. Personally, I have a hunch that Jesus would have been

found right here in this camp and not behind the locked doors of the

cathedral. I'm relieved that the church has finally this week become

involved in the discussion. But I question the wisdom of advising on

specific policy like the Robin Hood tax, rather than engaging in the

wider debate on how we love our neighbour.

The church has an opportunity of a generation. The world financial

crisis has shown that capitalism has inherit flaws. Without doubt,

there's a huge gap between the rich and the poor. So, rather than naval

gazing, the church should come out beyond the church buildings, beyond

its congregation and concern itself with the issues that affect us all,

issues like poverty, unemployment, insecurity and fear.

So, has what's happened over the last couple of weeks dented the

church's credibility to such a degree that there's no way back?

From now on, will the church be seen as a greedy old relic from the

past? No. I actually believe that this is a beautiful opportunity for

the church to truly represent everything Jesus championed, to be

right at the centre of a radical, Diane Louise Jordan joins us at our

campsite in London. Very posh campsite. Because we are very posh,

as you can tell. You can actually spend the night here. Still trying

to work out which is Katie and Peter. We'll get our own back,

don't worry. If, as you said in your film, you

really think Jesus would be inside the tent, how did the church manage

to get it so wrong? I don't know. I think sometimes when you're having

a building with all the sort of responsibilities and all that sort

of stuff, I think you can sort of get so involved with how that runs

that you sort of just miss your footing on what's actually

happening right under your nose. I don't really think the guys at the

cathedral had any sort of sinister agenda or anything like that.

just seemed out of your depth? I just think they literally weren't

looking where they were supposed to be. My sadness is that they didn't

sort of, you know, focus on what was really happening sooner.

issues that have caused this campsite and others in other cities

around the world to spring up, although the campsite's not been

there for very long, the issues causing it have been around for a

while. Exactly. Particularly after the financial crash of 2008. So why

did it take two weeks for the bant to say anything? -- Archbishop of

Canterbury? I think a lot of Christians are sitting there

feeling the same why. You know, this is an area really where the

church should be leading the way really. This is the mandate to help

the broken hearted and the disenfranchised and the widow and

all that sort of stuff. So I think that the guys at the cathedral

really just didn't respond. refer to Rowan Williams, he did an

article in the FT yesterday about the Tobin tax, he's been saying

that for some time. I think the reason why this story's taken off

in the way that it had is because it's one of those situations where

a big organisation didn't kind of know what its instincts were.

That's why it was brilliant, that banner,, what would Jesus do, in

the film. They didn't know what their instincts were to be to

project the Majesty of the great building and it's linked with the

City, which I'm not criticising them for this, but they get a lot

of money to keep the whole thing going, or were they instincts to go

out to people who were saying the sort of things... There was another

institution though found to be out of its depth in the immediate

aftermath of Princess Diana's death and that was Buckingham Palace and

the Royal Family. You were involved, Alastair, in trying to get that

institution on the right track post-the car crash. What would you

have advised the church if they asked you? To have gone straight

out and engaged with them and appealed to them to actually help

them organise the protest in a way that could have kept the church

open. It was shutting the church I think that sort of... That drew

everybody's attention. The other concern is that you have compared

the church to another institution and my frustration, and I wonder if

that's the same with a lot of other Christians is, why is the church an

institution, that's not what it's supposed to be. It's because it's

not an institution that it's found it difficult to handle this. As a

Christian, your response should be, you should be free enough so that

your response can be there's an issue, there are people that have a

need. You can't all have the same response. Within St Paul's itself

and then the Archbishop of Canterbury, they didn't have the

same response because they didn't know what their instincts with.

Let me bring Michael in. He's being uncharacteristically patient.

of all, I see this a as supreme example of the horrible health and

safety culture. It's not been wound back. It's a brave person who, when

advised by a lawyer says there's a health and safety issue, says I'm

going to take my chances. If you do that and something happens, you are

in trouble. The other thung is, it's all very well to say the

church has some sympathy with what the protesters are saying, I can

understand them too. But what is the connection between having a

problem with big bank bonuses or whatever and putting your tents all

over a public facility? I mean, where is the right of the public to

enjoy the amenity space? Why is it that any minority, however small,

can put up its tents anywhere it wishes in Britain and spoil the

amenity? Diane? I don't know about these guys putting up tents there,

but I think the underlying thing is, one of the beautiful things about

this country is that we have the freedom to express our concerns

about whatever it is. We have the freedom to protest. ALL SPEAK AT

ONCE You don't need the freedom to put

up tents. Perhaps. It's a form of protest. I don't particularly want

to hear the views of organisation or groups that I disagree with like

the BNP or whatever, but they have the freedom to protest in the way

Because they have moved to St Paul's, the issue has become about

the Church. The other issues have gone on to the back-burner.

thing that I am more interested in - we can go down the road about

whether they should be camping or not, and there were some

disgruntled people today who did not want them there - but the point

I am concerned about, from the Christian point of view, is how do

we, as Christians, respond to this global discontent. It is not just

the guys outside St Paul's Cathedral. Around the world there

is a growing feeling, and people are not necessarily articulating it

in a coherent way, but they feel disenfranchised. How is the Church

going to respond to that? I think that is a good. But I do not think

the Church is obliged, nor the British public, to indulge this

invasion of the public space and this ruining of a public amenity.

You famously said that politicians do not do God. Should priests not

do politics? Because of what you have just said, I think it is very

hard for them to stay out of politics, because you are talking

about deeply political issues. The that is why I think one of the bad

consequences of what has happened is that the issues the protesters

were trying to raise have not had the ventilation through what has

been going on with the church that they hoped. Whereas in the States

where they are "occupying Wall Street" the focus has been on the

bankers. Within this whole debate this week, apart from Bob Diamond

making an order speech tonight, we have heard nothing from the bankers.

We have heard about Rowan Williams, the Bishop of London, etc, so some

of the issues that you are hoping to highlight actually in a strange

way been allowed to escape. They are issues of principle, and from a

Christian perspective there are strong Christian issues as well,

but does that really mean the Church of England should have as

its official policy support for a Tobin Tax? Is that really what the

Church should be arguing for? said in my piece, I am not sure it

is the Church's position to start advising on these specific policies.

I think we are going down a dangerous path if we do that. I do

not know. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. People

say church figures have to give leadership, but when they make a

specific proposal, commentary on a proposal, they are criticised for

entering politics. It is not their job to produce the policies. They

can have a view on something that is around. I thought Rowan

Williams... I do not want to comment on what Rowan Williams said.

I think perhaps you are right. But the frustration for me years, -- it

is that there was this argument, not to do specifically with the

church, but we, as a body of Christians, have not dealt with

this in the way that is representative, I think, of how

Jesus leads. I think for us there is a great opportunity where we

could actually come out and behave in a way that follows those

principles, and we are not doing that. One result of this is more

less the canonisation of these protesters. It irritates me to hear

the BBC interviewing them, calling them by their first names, because

they have somehow been elevated to this sacred status because now the

church is reaching out to them. is interesting that has happened.

thank you for being with us. Like a prostrate eurozone lead on the

phone to China's Sovereign Wealth Funds - it is happening - we are

not too proud to beg. So please don't go anywhere, because

otherwise you will miss Nancy Dell'Olio trying to figure out what

her motivation is. If that is not enough reason to stay tuned, think

of the joy and the pain, especially the pain, that you can have on our

Internet site. Or you can follow last on Twitter and poke fun at us

on the face book. Economic crises are not a disaster for everyone.

Greek bonds are worthless but ancient Greek mythology has never

been more popular, certainly with political journalists searching for

a metaphor. We have dusted down our copies of the Iliad and paraded are

long forgotten knowledge of the Trojan War, in a vain attempt to

shed light on the tragedy that is modern-day Greece. Who better to

turn to them the woman with the Midas touch, the Independent's Mary

Ann Sieghart, with a Greek chorus, It is a tragedy of plate throwing,

kebab showering proportions. It makes Sophocles and Euripides look

like drama queens. The ancient Greeks believed that if you tried

to imitate the goods you would be struck down. Angela Merkel and

Nicolas Sarkozy, who had been displaying the hubris of here and

there Zeus, found themselves tumbling down the slopes of Mount

Olympus this week. On Tuesday, Greece dared to challenge the Euro

gods when the Prime Minister, George Papandreou, announced he was

going to hold a referendum on the bail out plan. He did not even

warned his own Finance Minister, let alone Angela Merkel and Sarkozy.

Who would have thought it, from the people who invented democracy? The

markets tumbled before you could say taramasalata. We invented

catastrophe,... Now George Papandreou faces resignation, there

may be a government of national unity and there is unlikely to be a

referendum. Even so, beware of Greeks bearing euros, because there

is a fair chance they will turn back into the worthless drachma. As

the G20 leaders arrived in France, Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy

summoned George Papandreou for an emergency summit in Cannes. Yes, he

can. No, he can't. They had to ask him what he thought he was doing,

and to tell him he was not going to get his big fat Greek bail out

unless he ignored his voters. TRANSLATION: We wish to continue

building Europe and the euro without Greek friends. We have done

everything we could to achieve that but there are certain number of

rules that are the bedrock of the solidarity pact and it is up to the

Greeks now to decide whether they wish to continue on this road

together with us, or not. Meanwhile, we in Britain are either left

waiting uselessly while the drama unfolds, or thrilled that we are

outside the eurozone. Depending on whether you are Nick Clegg or David

Cameron. George Osborne can lecture all he likes, but he does sound

like one of those men jabbering to himself on the bus. No one in the

eurozone is listening. It is up to the Greek people and the Greek

political system to decide how they make their decisions but it is

important for the eurozone to implement the package they agreed

last week. That is what I said was crucial at the time and it is what

they said was crucial at the time. We need to get on with it sooner

rather than later. The eurozone crisis is handy for the Tories

because they can blame our lack of growth on the Greeks who have been

living beyond their means. What's a Grecian urn? More than his

government can afford to pay him! There is a global storm in the

economy today and it is in our interest to help others come from

that global storm but we also have to keep the British economy safe.

We will not do that if we add to our deficit and debt and put

interest rates at risk. First he blamed the Labour Government, then

Europe, yesterday he was blaming his Cabinet colleagues for the lack

of growth in our economy. The truth about this Prime Minister is that

when things go wrong, it is never anything to do with him. Funny, we

remember Gordon Brown doing the same when his financial crisis hit.

The Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, his Labour's Cassandre. He thinks

he has perfected his own flat lining gesture. For David Cameron,

who cannot bear Ed Balls, he had another go at him yesterday.

can go on making questionable salutes, but it is time to take a

Primark. In Greece, the cartoonists are mocking Angela Merkel as a not

see. Lot of the inventors of the euro had in mind. But in Greece,

public servants can still retire in their fifties whereas in Britain

they will have to work until they are 65. Will I still work hard when

I am 64? The unions are going to go on strike but they will not get

sympathy from those in the private sector who have always retired

later and usually on less money. is not fair! In the City,

protesters have been saying the same thing but after three

resignations from St Paul's, the cathedral has repented over

evicting them. Meanwhile, the Oracle of Swansea, a high priest of

in decision finally came out to say that maybe capitalism was not such

a great thing after all. But he certainly took his time. Judging

the right time to say something is always difficult and I may or may

not have got it right but this is what I would like to say now.

a bit hit-and-miss, Archbishop. Take a tip from Zeus, a good bolt

of thunder and a whole lot of rain is the best way to get yourself

heard. Thunderbolt and lightning, very, very frightening.

Joining our own little Greek chorus in the studio, Louise Cooper of

PGCE. Welcome to This Week. Michael, chaos and confusion in Athens has

had a huge ripple effect at the G20 in Cannes. Whatever happens in

Greece, chaos and confusion will remain for the foreseeable future.

Yes, but we're getting somewhere, getting to the point of considering

which country will leave the euro. I regard that as a step forward

because this will not be fixed by one trillion euros. It will not be

fixed by fiscal union. There were not the political union. The

Germans were not agree to transfer indefinite amounts of money for all

time. The only way it can be solved is by fewer countries in the euro.

At last we are taking tentative steps towards that. So it does not

stop with Greece? I imagine it would not stop with Greece. We all

know that quite a large number of countries in the euro are not

really capable of being in the euro. But the idea that countries should

leave the euro has been regarded as unthinkable. Luckily it is now

being thought about. I think British Government policy is in a

very funny place, because British Government policy is that the euro

should succeed. It cannot succeed because it has the wrong members.

British policy is that there should be fiscal union. The last thing in

the British national interest is a fiscal union dominated by Germany.

At the moment we are speaking out of the back of our heads. Louise,

how would the markets react and what do the markets think about

Greece leaving the eurozone? In a sense they are unhappy with the way

things are at the moment, but the possibility of contagion if Greece

leaves fairly terrifies them. Angela Merkel and Sarkozy should

have done his deal with the Greece problem 18 months ago, thrown a lot

of money at it, if they want to keep the euro, and contained it.

That clearly has not happened. Even now they are trying to do it on the

cheap. The bail out package last week, it is not a package because

we have not got detail, and it is done consistently on the cheap. Not

enough money is put on the table. What we have is contagion. We have

Italian government finding it difficult to fund their large

deficit. We have Italian bond yields at 6.3%, four of a creeping

up, despite the fact that the ECB is buying an awful lot of Italian

debt. This is the big fear. It is not Greece, but a Missy default of

Greece could do the lot of damage to the European economy and the

European banking industry. -- messy. The scary thing is contagion to

other places. I suspect if you were talking to George Papandreou, you

would be telling him the game is up. The only thing to say about that is

that he is a survivor. He probably has had it, to be frank. Conversely,

the gambit he made on the referendum, and Angela Merkel and

Sarkozy forcing him, basically telling him that if they didn't get

it through, they were out of the euro, that has put the point that

Michael has made on the table. Until then, they would not say it

in those terms, but it is now out there. I think that could become a

problem. It may be that they will not have the referendum, they get a

government of national unity and get the bail out package through

but I suspect it will not be enough and we will be back here again. I

was at some of the summits when the whole euro thing came into being.

Michael is right, it has been a political project all the way

through. There are countries in the euro, and the Germans know this, he

should never have been in the euro. They probably thought at the time,

some of them, this will end where we are now. Whether that means one

country will go out and then you have contagion and you go to a

smaller eurozone, do not know, but if that happens, it is not as

straightforward and painless as Can we park this idea of a

Government of national unity in Greece? I know that's the way

they're going to do it, that's the plan overnight, Mr Papandreou will

probably step down and they'll try to get another Government in. There

was talk about bringing back a former governor of the Bank of

Greece. Greek politics are more polarised than American politics

today. But he does seem to have moved the opposition on to his

territory. Not later tonight? it's changed. That's the problem.

Harold Wilson said a week was a long time, a an hour is in Greek

politics. The Greek economy is going to implode sooner or later

because there's no possibility that the Greek economy can recover under

the package that's been served up to it. The Greeks know that. That's

why you mentioned a referendum, that's why they're talking about

having a general election because they know they cannot do this, they

cannot possibly come round. Everyone pretends this has been

arrange ford the good of the Greeks, but it's to try and save the euro

and it won't succeed in saving Greece or the euro. Can the Greeks

have a real default, not the organised voluntary hair cut

they're supposed to be forced to be having? Can they have a proper

default? The New York Times had figures this week, it said it would

run a budget surplus next year because all the money's going on

interest, so could they do a real default and stay in the euro? Or

does a real default automatically mean you have got to leave? I think

it means you have to leave. You know, the problem with Greece is

all the solutions they're currently putting on the stable don't deal

with the underlying problem which is that they have too much debt.

They need to sell stuff, they need to sell something, whatever it is

that they can on with selling, they should do it and make reforms to

the economy. But that's not what is happening, the privatisation

programme is not happening and the reforms are not happening. All the

extra stuff Kerr concentrating on doesn't deal with the structural

problems with the Greek economy which is imploding. The Greek

economy's contracted 11% in two years. 15% in three years. Apart

from selling islands, they could sell exports and tourism if they

weren't stuck inside the euro. on holiday there.

Will Greece stay in or not? Alastair? If I was putting my life

on it, I would say they won't. are not asking for your life?

had to put a euro on it, I would put it on Greece not being in the

euro. OK. Absolutely. My money's in the same place. I'm with the boys.

Three that go?! You mentioned earlier that you've done a number

of G20s. What must the Obamas and the Chinese President and the

Indian Prime Minister, what must they think? There was no point in

being in Cannes today? There is a point. I agree with Michael. You

sense that things are moving. The point of them being there is to

apply, and there will be a lot of pressure being applied and Obama is

doing a bit publicly, but the other message coming out of Cannes is the

shifting of power from west to east. That is the other big thing

happening in the economy. You don't need a G20 summit to know that.

what these guys are meant to do at the big events is to shape a future.

That may be that out of a crisis b sometimes you can do that. The

other amazing thing is that at the last euro crisis summit where this

bail out deal was agreed, nobody thought, it seems to many, to

grille down on Papandreou as to how he was going to do this so that

when he announced the referendum, that's what sparked the present

crisis, nobody had a clue it was coming. That is because despite all

the talk of European unity, there's the most fantastic different of

political cultures among Europe and no apparent empathy or sympathy for

the conditions that exist in different countries. For example,

one culture is the German culture that you mustn't interfere with the

ECB or have a currency that is deboar ched and you mustn't have

bail outs. When they served up this package to Greece, they obviously

didn't give a fig as to how it would be done. No. Such a desire to

get something that sort of says we've solved this problem, move on

to the next thing that I think too often they turned a blind eye to

the detail. The top man of the ECB years ago was a political fix,

Chirac was saying he couldn't do it for eight years and the next guy

had to be French. This was meant to be an independent institution.

Brussels summit didn't come up with anything, it came up with 106

billion for capitalisation of banks, at some stage finding money from

somewhere, clearly not enough money, it needs to be double, triple gosh

knows what. It came up with a lever aaged ESF, how would that be done,

does it need to be financial engineering and we had the hair cut

that lots of banks don't want to participate in. It was a deal that

was rubbish. Sorry, it was rubbish. What shall we be looking out for in

the weeks ahead? Let's assume this thing continues to rumble on and is

not solved this side of Christmas? I think a lot of it is not solvable,

to be honest. I'm quite surprised how patient financial markets are

willing to be. We've talked many times about credit markets, the

fact that the banking industry can probably survive to tend of the

year, but then come next year it has to start funding itself,

massive funding. Banks are hugely leveraged. We've seen the boss on

the BNP today saying I will be deleveraging my balance sheet and

taking assets off. Which means they won't have a base to lend? Joy they

won't be lending and the fear of a credit crunch come the beginning of

2012 will have devastating effects on the ordinary people and the

economic forecasts which are already coming down, is what we

need to worry about, the credit crunch that will happen in 2012 if

European politicians don't get organised. I hear the sound of

razor blades being pulled out in the drawing rooms of Britain.

Louise Cooper, thank you very much. We perked up this week with some

good news for the economy - not the 0.5% growth figuresry put some led

in Boy George's pencil - talk about poverty of low expectations. No, no,

the news of the average 49% pay increases for the UK's business. It

means they must obviously, in a marked economy, there must have

been a 49% increase in share prices and in turnover employment profits.

Obviously. That's what follows isn't it? Who knew the economy was

doing so nicely hey fellas. One business person was asked if he'd

do his job for half of his multi- million pay packet. His answer left

us none the wiser which gave us every reason to put motivation in

What could possibly motivate an Italian property lawyer with an

undoubted love to have limelight to enter a ballroom dancing

competition on live national TV? What will you miss most about

Strictly? Let me think about it. I will miss many moments, of course.

Or make three Pakistani cricketers throw away their talent and their

reputations. And their freedom. After being found guilty of match

fixing and bribe taking. The wages of top business leaders

appearing to defy gravity in the face of our economic woes, is there

only money that motivates the masters of the universe?

Perhaps we could all take a moment to remember the life and work of a

TV legend whose marathon charity work puts us all to shame. A couple

of weeks to spend doing nothing so I thought I would spend 'em running

and getting some fresh air between Land's End and London. For ever

asked the question, now then, now then, now then, what would Sir

Jimmy do? We are joined by Strictly Nancy. Good Evening.

Good Evening to you. Tell us, what motivated you to do Strictly? Was

it the dancing, the entertainment or the money? Money?! Will we see

money?! Oh, I think you received quite a lot of money? Well... No,

well I think the thing is definitely. Well one thing

definitely, my number one motivation is what I wanted

probably the viewers to see that I can be quite funny, I have a good

sense of humour and I can laugh about myself. I think that I

deliver this. Maybe in ways you never thought. Absolutely. My

friends, people that know me, they know that I'm quite funny. Do you

know, Alastair? Yes, I know that, I know you're funny. Do you know

that? I do know that. What motivates you

more generally and gets you out of bed in the morning? To make a

difference. That sounds like a politician? Well, I mean, my

background comes from that and it goes quite well why we are here on

this programme. To make a difference. This is the reason why,

in one way, I don't know why, I became a so-called celebrity in

this country or famous, that was not my choice, I came here now ten

years ago. I came brought up in a football world. I've been the first

one declared to be the First Lady of English football. I don't know

what that means, I don't know if you had one before that. I tried to

make sense for why to be the papers never stop talking about me,

everything I to create a news. what motivates you? Motivated me.

And has it changed? Of course it changed. Always. You haven't always

been around saying, I'm here to make a difference? Well, make a

difference and at the same time... Well, OK, is this the beginning,

since I remember in my early days at university, probably flirting

make a difference. Flirting? Flirting make a difference.

flirt, big flirt. How do you know about it? I'm not doing too well.

What motivates you two bruisers? come here at this time of night. It

was the fact that I knew Nancy was going to be on. Right answer.

motivates you? To be stimulated, to be busy. To be challenged. Making a

difference is a fair enough motivation. I think being... I've

got an absolute terror of boredom, so I have to keep myself engaged.

So you have to be the perpetual motion machine? A little bit.

Having lots of different things around me to stimulate me. What

motivated you to go into politics and if you say to make a difference,

I might strangle you on live television? I think it was the most

fascinating thing I could do. I was right. Power? It's so dif fuse in

politics, you spend all your time arguing with people, I never felt

like power, but I did feel that we were painting on a hugely broad

canvas. That I found really stimulating. You and power, it's an

attractive thing to have? I was very close to power.

influenced? Yes, but funnily enough I don't miss that. I'm still very

interested in it. I said earlier the guys being described as the

most 20 powerful people in the world and they are not, nor do I

agree with it. You are never quite as powerful as you feel or as you

are being described as in the media. Do you think that money's become

the all conquering motivation now? Particularly for young people?

Unnorth Natalie, yes, especially in a society we live in today --

unfortunately, yes. We see young people trying to find the short cut

to become quite easily famous and rich. That is quite scary. People

want to be you, they want to be a celebrity? Well, they want to be me,

they'll be good trying to be me, but I have to know what this

comfort means to people. It's good to be you? It's not easy to be me.

It's easy, Alastair? I don't know. I'm glad you brought him in. If

only because you embarrassed him. Let's be honest, Nancy, you've

always liked being notorious and in the papers. Yes, but I never like

it. Remember when Nancy strode up Downing Street in a red trouser

suit? We can remember that. Alastair that, was... Sorry, we've

run out of time. That image of the red trouser suit. That's your lot

for tonight, folks! But not for us. You can carry on talking, because

Annabel's pipped the Ministry of Sound to the best club in London

gong at the Michael Winner Dinner Awards this week and we all wanted

to win one of those. With Strictly Nancy gagging for a rumba with

Alastair b and Michael promising to show us his Robbie Savage hip

thrust - yes, I want to see that too - we are all on a collision

course with the dance floor. We leave you with a sign of things to

come. With Europe a busted flush the sight of President Sarkozy left