08/12/2011 This Week


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS


08/12/2011

A political review of the week presented by Andrew Neil, with Michael Portillo and guests.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 08/12/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

As the winter weather begins to bite, This Week marks the end of

:00:12.:00:21.

David Attenborough's epic series Arctic conditions blowing across

:00:21.:00:25.

the eurozone. Is David Cameron about to be frozen out of Europe's

:00:25.:00:28.

future? Tory activist and blogger Tim Montgomerie gives the PM the

:00:28.:00:37.

cold shoulder. As well as fighting for Britain's place in Europe,

:00:38.:00:41.

David Cameron also has to deal with the icy relations with his own

:00:41.:00:45.

party. A festive scene in far-away lands

:00:45.:00:48.

but is Germany willing to play the role of Father Christmas?

:00:48.:00:51.

Journalist and commentator, Anne McElvoy, goes back in time to look

:00:51.:01:01.
:01:01.:01:01.

for some answers. Britain and Europe need some festive cheer, but

:01:01.:01:06.

can Angela and Nicholas serve it up. And a spectacular light show in the

:01:07.:01:10.

Arctic skies but are the Olympic fireworks really worth the extra

:01:10.:01:12.

millions? One of Newham's most chilled residents, comedian Andi

:01:12.:01:20.

Osho, is getting hot under the collar. While the finishing touches

:01:20.:01:24.

are being put on the Olympic stadium, I am worried about the

:01:24.:01:29.

legacy that will be left behind for local people. This is the political

:01:29.:01:39.
:01:39.:01:40.

Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week. And a special welcome to pro-

:01:40.:01:44.

Europeans in the Tory Party, fans of Tony Blair in the Labour Party

:01:44.:01:47.

and, come the next election, Members of Parliament from the

:01:47.:01:53.

Liberal Democrats. Endangered species, one and all, the likes of

:01:54.:02:00.

which we may never see again. But when it comes to those on the verge

:02:00.:02:04.

of extinction maybe we've turned a corner. Because this week

:02:04.:02:07.

Westminster's very own panda, Ed Miliband, was joined by two more

:02:07.:02:10.

doe-eyed creatures, raised, like him, in a Marxist one-party state

:02:10.:02:13.

after the Chinese finally stepped in to help the floundering eurozone,

:02:13.:02:15.

not with their foreign exchange reserves but with their panda-

:02:15.:02:23.

exchange reserves. Just what the British economy needs, two more

:02:23.:02:25.

unemployed layabouts sponging off the state, desperately trying to

:02:25.:02:29.

get knocked up in a sordid attempt to keep a taxpayer-funded roof over

:02:29.:02:36.

their heads. But I suppose that means they'll feel pretty much at

:02:36.:02:41.

home in Scotland. Speaking of those who are a burden on society, I'm

:02:41.:02:44.

joined on the sofa tonight by two of politics most recalcitrant NEETS,

:02:44.:02:47.

neither of whom is in education, employment or training, the Wayne

:02:47.:02:54.

and Waynetta Slob of late night political chat. I speak, of course,

:02:54.:02:57.

of Michael Portillo and, currently trending as "Blairite on the left",

:02:57.:03:07.
:03:07.:03:10.

Jacqui Smith. Michael, your moment. In this

:03:10.:03:14.

matter of the euro, I have to hand it to the Mayor of London, Boris

:03:14.:03:17.

Johnson, who came up with a good phrase he borrowed from someone

:03:17.:03:22.

else. He said in this matter of the euro, the Europeans are saving the

:03:22.:03:28.

cancer and not saving the patient. And the analogy is right. What is

:03:28.:03:31.

killing Europe is the euro, and what the European leaders are doing

:03:31.:03:35.

is rushing to save the euro, the cancer, while the patient goes on

:03:35.:03:39.

dying. Even the British Government is in favour of saving the cancer

:03:39.:03:45.

rather than the patient. It must be a good phrase if you are praising

:03:45.:03:50.

something Boris Johnson said. You've got it! I will mark that in

:03:50.:03:57.

mind never happened before file. Jacqui. Yesterday was the final

:03:57.:04:03.

episode of the Frozen Planet. What was interesting was David

:04:03.:04:07.

Attenborough, father of the nation, taking the opportunity to remind

:04:07.:04:10.

everybody about the dangers of climate change, suggesting that the

:04:10.:04:14.

Arctic that they have been exploring for the last seven weeks,

:04:14.:04:18.

the ice may be gone by 2020. Stark contrast to the emphasis that has

:04:18.:04:22.

been placed on what is happening in South Africa in Durban at the

:04:22.:04:25.

moment, where the whole issue has very much gone off the political

:04:25.:04:30.

agenda, even from a Prime Minister who told us if we bloated -- voted

:04:30.:04:34.

blue we would get green. We will not be much in that again tonight

:04:34.:04:38.

because it is not on our agenda, so you make a good point.

:04:38.:04:41.

Now, call-me-Dave has today hot- footed it over to Brussels again,

:04:41.:04:44.

back into the warm, familiar, comforting bosom of Angela Merkel.

:04:44.:04:47.

But here at home, euro-sceptic Tory MPs, or illegitimate children as we

:04:47.:04:51.

will soon start calling them, have begged him not to surrender to her

:04:51.:04:54.

fulsome charms, or the eurozone's attempt to form an ever closer

:04:54.:04:59.

union. Whether he manages to resist and show some bulldog spirit,

:04:59.:05:03.

remains to be seen. So we've asked, Conservative journalist and blogger

:05:03.:05:13.
:05:13.:05:31.

Tim Montgomerie for his take of the Just like me, David Cameron might

:05:31.:05:36.

be getting the Belgian beer in tonight. In Brussels, he will be

:05:36.:05:41.

ordering food. But by Kieran Britain, left behind him, the huge

:05:41.:05:45.

issue of Europe, an unexploded bomb at the heart of the Conservative

:05:45.:05:49.

Party. -- but back here in Britain. It is the issue that will not go

:05:50.:05:59.
:06:00.:06:05.

away, and that taking is getting Thank you. The majority of the

:06:05.:06:09.

Conservative Party now think it is time to defuse the bomb. The Euro-

:06:09.:06:13.

sceptics are often dismissed as the frothing at the mouth, swivel-eyed,

:06:13.:06:18.

blazers and ties Brigade. But they feel they were vindicated about the

:06:18.:06:21.

euro and that their voice deserves to be heard. They feel David

:06:22.:06:31.

Cameron ignores them at his peril. Some people take a superficial look

:06:31.:06:34.

at opinion polls and say the issue of Europe does not matter. David

:06:34.:06:38.

Cameron cannot be someone who will make that mistake. In 1992 he stood

:06:38.:06:43.

alongside Norman Lamont when Britain crashed out of the exchange

:06:43.:06:46.

rate mechanism and the Conservative Party's reputation for economic

:06:46.:06:49.

competence was ruined for regeneration. He knows that the

:06:49.:06:59.
:06:59.:07:15.

The eurozone crisis should be a blaring signal to EU leaders to

:07:15.:07:21.

change course. Thank you. But actually they are doubling down on

:07:21.:07:26.

the same old failed model. Most Tory members do not think economic

:07:26.:07:30.

recovery will start until the European economies to leave the

:07:30.:07:38.

euro straitjacket. Of course, a break-up will be painful but

:07:38.:07:43.

essential surgery always is. In terms of his career, David Cameron

:07:43.:07:47.

will obviously survive this episode. The economic crisis is so grave

:07:48.:07:52.

that not enough Tory MPs will want to rock the boat. But he will be

:07:52.:07:56.

undermined by the fact that at Europe's maximum moment of weakness

:07:56.:08:01.

he gave up all of his cards before he even got to the negotiating

:08:01.:08:08.

table. If he fails to flex his muscles in Brussels, the ticking

:08:08.:08:15.

from that bomb is only going to get louder and louder.

:08:15.:08:25.
:08:25.:08:26.

Tim Montgomery joins us. Welcome. Michael, he says an unexploded bomb

:08:26.:08:30.

at the heart of the Tory party. Do you agree? Absolutely. It has been

:08:30.:08:35.

lying there for about 40 years. Europe is a curse for the Tory

:08:35.:08:39.

party which threatens to destroy it. Actually, it has already destroyed

:08:39.:08:44.

Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, John Major, and there is no reason to

:08:44.:08:48.

think it will not destroy David Cameron. That is absolutely

:08:48.:08:54.

possible. I think the only way in which he can be saved is that this

:08:54.:08:57.

summit is about something even more important than Britain's

:08:57.:09:01.

relationship with Europe. It is about whether the euro survives. My

:09:01.:09:05.

bet is that the euro is not going to survive and that as it crashes

:09:05.:09:10.

we will be rescued from this problem about having to negotiate a

:09:10.:09:13.

new treaty with the Europeans. That is not to say that this problem is

:09:13.:09:18.

not very deep. It is very deep and David Cameron is in a real bind, a

:09:18.:09:23.

real crisis. What would you say to David Cameron if he was here and he

:09:23.:09:27.

said, I am a Euro-sceptic like you and I want to repatriate powers but

:09:27.:09:32.

the crisis at the moment is about the eurozone. If the eurozone goes

:09:32.:09:35.

belly-up it will drag down the British economy into a deep

:09:35.:09:40.

recession, maybe even a depression, so I need to help to sort that out

:09:40.:09:45.

first. If he was doing that, I would applaud him and most

:09:45.:09:48.

conservative members would. I agree with what Michael was saying and

:09:48.:09:53.

what Boris Johnson said earlier this week. The eurozone and its

:09:53.:09:57.

one-size-fits-all interest rate is the problem. The debt, the lack of

:09:57.:10:00.

competitiveness of economies like Greece and Spain within the

:10:00.:10:04.

eurozone. We all know it would be incredibly difficult if the euro

:10:04.:10:08.

breaks up, but as I said in the film, it is like essential surgery,

:10:08.:10:13.

it is painful, but once it is done we can begin to recover. If that is

:10:14.:10:18.

the case and that is what a lot of Conservatives think, Jacqui, it is

:10:18.:10:21.

a difficult line for the Prime Minister to walk as Prime Minister

:10:21.:10:24.

of the country on the one hand and leader of the Conservatives on the

:10:24.:10:31.

other. He has got himself into this situation. Leaving aside what the

:10:31.:10:34.

long-term strategic Right Thing For Europe is, six years ago he won his

:10:34.:10:37.

place as leader of the Conservative Party by a winning over the right

:10:37.:10:41.

by moving away from the Conservative group within Europe.

:10:41.:10:45.

That is the reason why he was not in Marseilles with Merkel and

:10:45.:10:50.

Sarkozy today, or before the summit. And just a few weeks ago, when

:10:50.:10:54.

facing a rebellion, there were nudges and winks, don't rebel

:10:54.:10:58.

because it is OK, we are going to repatriate and there will be a

:10:58.:11:02.

referendum at some point. That makes it very difficult, if you are

:11:02.:11:04.

saying one thing to your backbenchers and you need to do

:11:04.:11:07.

another thing within Europe to achieve your strategic ends, you

:11:07.:11:11.

have brought the problem upon yourself. I agree with that. When

:11:11.:11:16.

he was facing that rebellion of the 81 as it turned out and he was

:11:16.:11:20.

trying to defuse it, he did say, when the opportunity came to

:11:20.:11:23.

renegotiate Britain's relationship with Europe, another treaty, he

:11:23.:11:27.

would take it and look for fundamental reform. And now, of

:11:28.:11:32.

course, the opportunity has come so soon and he is saying it is too

:11:32.:11:37.

difficult. That is part of the reason he has got into this pickle.

:11:37.:11:41.

To be fair to him, all Conservative prime ministers find themselves in

:11:41.:11:44.

this position, even Margaret Thatcher. They have obligations,

:11:44.:11:48.

they are sucked into difficulties in Europe which mean they lose

:11:48.:11:52.

their perspective of what they owe to their party. Margaret Thatcher

:11:53.:11:56.

signed the Single European Act. I think one of the reasons that she

:11:56.:12:01.

became so vehemently anti- European, why she made those great speeches

:12:01.:12:05.

at the end, why she was brought down, was that she deeply regretted

:12:05.:12:08.

signing the Single European Act. Let's not pretend David Cameron is

:12:08.:12:12.

the first Tory Prime Minister to find itself in his position. What

:12:12.:12:16.

is it about the Tories who are now saying that the eurozone itself is

:12:16.:12:21.

a problem and cannot be fixed, cannot be put right, because the

:12:21.:12:24.

British Labour Party does not think that, the British Liberal Democrats

:12:24.:12:28.

do not think it, the French socialists do not think it, the

:12:28.:12:31.

German Social Democrats do not think it, the German Christian

:12:31.:12:35.

Democrats don't think it, the Spanish Christian Democrats don't...

:12:35.:12:39.

How long do I have to go on? What is so different about British

:12:39.:12:46.

Tories? I think it is the British people. One of the things we know

:12:46.:12:50.

is that if there is a referendum, which David Cameron wishes to avoid,

:12:50.:12:53.

whatever the question may be, the answer from the British people will

:12:53.:12:57.

be No. The British people's heart is not in the European project,

:12:57.:13:02.

period. I am not talking about the euro, but the European project. It

:13:02.:13:07.

is to do with being an island, to do with our different experience in

:13:07.:13:10.

World War II, to do with understanding that a club is a

:13:10.:13:13.

thing whose rules do not change, whereas the Europeans are in a

:13:13.:13:17.

process whose rules change all the time. We are fundamentally unsuited

:13:17.:13:22.

to this project, as a people. you agree with that in any way,

:13:22.:13:27.

Jacqui, it is hard for a Labour leader to be seen to be pro Europe

:13:27.:13:32.

and get much traction. Which is why, what you have seen interestingly in

:13:32.:13:36.

recent weeks from Douglas Alexander is a more pragmatic approach to

:13:36.:13:42.

Europe, the argument that some of the things we have used in the past

:13:42.:13:45.

to justify and to try to win support are not sufficient, and we

:13:45.:13:49.

need to develop a new argument, a positive argument for why we need

:13:49.:13:53.

to be engaged in Europe. But nevertheless, not going in a gung-

:13:53.:13:59.

ho way, trying to defend the status quo. It was part of the Blairite

:13:59.:14:02.

project to be pro-Europe, given Michael Foot's attitude and the

:14:02.:14:07.

attitude of the hard left. The ambition was to be the height of

:14:07.:14:11.

maternity at one stage. There are still strong arguments for why we

:14:11.:14:16.

would want to be part of Europe. But it does not make you a

:14:16.:14:20.

moderniser. We do not think of ourselves in those stark ways.

:14:20.:14:27.

There are more fundamental arguments. Tim, you say that

:14:27.:14:32.

Cameron will ignore the sceptics at his peril. What does that mean? How

:14:32.:14:36.

much damage are they prepared to do to him? They have not got an

:14:36.:14:40.

alternative. They have not got taking over the water, unless you

:14:40.:14:44.

count Boris Johnson. That has been David Cameron's advantage for a

:14:44.:14:49.

long time, there is no obvious successor. This is not about a Tory

:14:49.:14:55.

leadership race. So why does he ignore them at his peril? I think

:14:55.:14:59.

the issue goes back to what Jacqui was talking about, what is the

:14:59.:15:03.

moderniser position? The moderniser position is to record -- recognise

:15:03.:15:07.

that the European model is the out of date thing. This economic model

:15:07.:15:12.

that is about big welfare states, lots of regulation, high taxes,

:15:12.:15:17.

agricultural subsidies, protectionism. As long as we

:15:17.:15:19.

changed to that as a country we do not solve our fundamental economic

:15:19.:15:24.

problems. I think Cameron's failure to articulate a big vision for a

:15:24.:15:28.

new Europe is the reason why people are not willing to follow him.

:15:28.:15:32.

me explain something that Euro- sceptics psychology which I think I

:15:32.:15:37.

understand. The British sovereignty issue matters more to Euro-sceptics

:15:37.:15:41.

than the result of the next election, than the fortunes of the

:15:41.:15:45.

Prime Minister, than their own seat. It matters more than anything.

:15:45.:15:48.

is like Ireland to the Liberal Party at the end of the 19th

:15:48.:15:56.

century, or like free trade used to be to the Tories. We would be in

:15:56.:16:00.

the euro if it were not for one person, Gordon Brown, not a member

:16:00.:16:08.

of the Conservative Party. I wonder whether this upsurge of attacks on

:16:08.:16:11.

Cameron because of the euro and the eurozone actually goes deeper than

:16:11.:16:15.

that. There is a big chunk of the Tory party who blame him for not

:16:15.:16:20.

winning an overall majority in the election, they hate him -- they

:16:20.:16:23.

hate the idea, they think he likes the Lib Dems more than his own

:16:23.:16:26.

people, they do not think he manages the party very well and

:16:26.:16:31.

there are host of other reasons, too. There is a Tory class war that

:16:31.:16:36.

could come into it. These are the unspoken parts that add an edge to

:16:36.:16:45.

But I think I do agree. Tim is better placed to answer that.

:16:45.:16:49.

Nonetheless, all those things added together do not matter a jot

:16:49.:16:53.

compared with the European question. It burns so deeply in people's

:16:53.:16:58.

souls. It is getting pretty nasty when the Conservative Prime

:16:58.:17:05.

Minister is now compared by his own side to Neville Chamberlain. I am a

:17:05.:17:08.

deep Euro-sceptic, and it would be great if we could talk about Europe

:17:08.:17:12.

and Germany without resorting to World War II imagery. Germany is a

:17:12.:17:16.

great modern country now. They may not have the right answers on

:17:16.:17:22.

Europe, but can we get rid of that? Do you agree with the proposition I

:17:23.:17:27.

made that it goes deeper than Europe? Absolutely. It is something

:17:27.:17:31.

I have written in this week's spectator. It is about losing the

:17:31.:17:36.

election and not using the crisis we have to reform the tax system,

:17:36.:17:40.

and it is about a once in a generation opportunity to change

:17:40.:17:45.

our relationship with Europe, and not taking it.

:17:45.:17:54.

Now, it is late. Babestation late, if you know what I mean. But don't

:17:55.:17:58.

change the channel yet, because coming up, comedienne and actress

:17:58.:18:01.

Andi Osho will be telling us why not everyone in east London is

:18:01.:18:07.

looking forward to the coxless fours in 2012. The those of you who

:18:07.:18:13.

claim to never watch the show, remember, you can post your

:18:13.:18:17.

comments on our into Web page or follow us on the Facebook or

:18:17.:18:20.

Twooter. With Christmas approaching, our

:18:20.:18:24.

thoughts naturally turn to where we will also spend Christmas Day

:18:24.:18:31.

together. Michael's house is to posh. Jacqui Smith's bedroom is too

:18:31.:18:35.

small and could not be regarded as a principal residence. So we will

:18:35.:18:40.

probably do what we always do and go to die and's house, where the

:18:40.:18:45.

only Christmas spirit is Caribbean rum. Here is a Dickens inspired

:18:45.:18:55.
:18:55.:19:09.

Christmas round-up of the political Christmas is coming, and the keys

:19:09.:19:13.

and a few bankers are getting fat. Elsewhere, it is thin gruel. The

:19:14.:19:17.

Eurozone and economy are up the spout and the gap between the haves

:19:17.:19:21.

and have-nots is getting wider. It is a kind of scenario that will

:19:21.:19:26.

have motivated Charles Dickens. The author of A Christmas Carol would

:19:26.:19:29.

have understood the idea of an austerity Christmas. Even David

:19:29.:19:33.

Cameron, asked about his mutual friends, said that this year, he

:19:33.:19:38.

would be making it a quiet one. the Prime Minister tell us if he

:19:38.:19:41.

will be having his usual Christmas bash with Rebekah Brooks and Jeremy

:19:41.:19:50.

Clarkson? If so, will they be talking about just how out of touch

:19:50.:19:57.

they are with British public opinion? I seem to remember the

:19:57.:20:06.

annual sleepover was with the former Labour prime minister. I

:20:06.:20:16.
:20:16.:20:17.

will be having a quiet family Christmas.

:20:17.:20:21.

It is not quite back to the Dickensian workhouse or the

:20:21.:20:25.

betters' prison where Mr de it languished, but there are over 2.5

:20:25.:20:30.

million unemployed, and the work programme, the government's

:20:30.:20:34.

equivalent of the Poor Laws, is grinding slowly. The Labour's Ed

:20:34.:20:38.

Balls, it was a sign that hard times would be made worse by the

:20:38.:20:43.

coalition Scrooges. With growth undershooting expectations in

:20:43.:20:48.

October, with borrowing set to be higher than he planned, with even

:20:48.:20:55.

the IMF calling for a change of course, why is the Chancellor

:20:55.:21:00.

ploughing on? There is not one single credible mainstream party in

:21:00.:21:05.

Europe that is advocating the position he advocates. We have done

:21:05.:21:10.

research and come across the workers' struggle party in France,

:21:10.:21:15.

and the Communist parties of Spain, Switzerland, Finland, Romania and

:21:15.:21:23.

Moldova. Those are his new fellow- travellers. If he had his Communist

:21:23.:21:26.

manifesto, it would be workers of the Labour Party, unite. We have

:21:26.:21:34.

nothing to lose except our Shadow Chancellor. But the real ghosts

:21:34.:21:38.

stalking the feast our European ones. David Cameron created greater

:21:38.:21:42.

expectations of repatriating powers from the EU to Britain, and a lot

:21:42.:21:46.

of his backbenchers will not let him forget that. The new closeness

:21:46.:21:49.

of the fiscal union between France and Germany is also worrying to

:21:49.:21:54.

Britain. And there is another ghost of Tory leaders past swinging her

:21:54.:21:59.

handbag. Six weeks ago, he was promising his backbenchers a hand

:21:59.:22:04.

bagging for Europe. Now he is just reduced to hand-wringing. That is

:22:04.:22:11.

the reality of this Prime Minister. The problem for Britain is that at

:22:11.:22:17.

the most important European summit for a generation, that matters

:22:17.:22:20.

hugely for families and businesses in the country, the Prime Minister

:22:20.:22:25.

rose simply left on the sidelines. Even the best of joke on handbags

:22:25.:22:31.

will not save his leadership. course, as well as being an author,

:22:31.:22:35.

dickens was a journalist. So what would the great chronicler of human

:22:35.:22:39.

absurdity have made of the latest inquiries into the hacking scandal?

:22:39.:22:43.

Parliament heard from four gentlemen who do seem to lead

:22:43.:22:49.

active lives. There is arguing, and when that fails, there is violence,

:22:49.:22:55.

which I have tried. I have been arrested twice and had my car

:22:56.:23:00.

Stanley knife Dover every surface in retribution. Poor Hugh, it is so

:23:00.:23:05.

hard being famous, and even harder if like Max Mosley, you think it

:23:05.:23:09.

takes more than two to tango. Breach of privacy can never be put

:23:09.:23:13.

right. In my case, the News Of The World had been forced to print on

:23:13.:23:19.

their front page "this was actually a private Georgi". That would not

:23:19.:23:25.

have helped me much. No, it wouldn't. But you could go for a

:23:25.:23:28.

striking metaphor, though perhaps not the one that Zac Goldsmith

:23:28.:23:33.

chose. If the only way business can stay afloat is by engaging in a

:23:33.:23:36.

more unethical behaviour, but business should change its model or

:23:36.:23:39.

go out of business. No police said Auschwitz should have been kept

:23:39.:23:45.

open because it created jobs. Dickens would have recognised the

:23:45.:23:48.

anger and frustration being played out on the streets of Moscow this

:23:48.:23:55.

week. Vladimir Putin stands accused of rigging the elections. When I

:23:56.:24:00.

covered Russia in the early '90s, there were still hopes of an open

:24:00.:24:04.

society and a real democracy. Mr Putin has decided not to bother

:24:04.:24:09.

with that. Russia, with this government and these leaders and

:24:09.:24:13.

these cheats and thieves, has no future. It is not as if all is

:24:13.:24:17.

quiet on the Western Front. This week, a new report showed that a

:24:17.:24:21.

lot of people blame the police for the summer riots. As Fagin might

:24:21.:24:25.

have put it, it is a shame when it was as getting the way of an honest

:24:25.:24:29.

bit of looting. The shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper said her

:24:29.:24:33.

party would hold its own investigation under Lord Stevens,

:24:33.:24:36.

the former Met chief, who was worried about disorder breaking out

:24:36.:24:46.
:24:46.:24:51.

again on the streets, a bit like this, perhaps. Can you move away?

:24:51.:24:57.

Look, will you move away? Oh, no! It is Ed Balls again. Well, here is

:24:57.:25:00.

looking forward to an austerity Christmas with none of the

:25:00.:25:03.

trimmings and a very small turkey for a nation of cracked its. God

:25:03.:25:12.

bless us, everyone. Is that it? ho ho, Merry Christmas to one and

:25:12.:25:19.

all. The Economist's and McElvoy in the

:25:19.:25:23.

Museum of London. We have done the Tories in Europe,

:25:23.:25:27.

now Europe. Is Sarkozy right when he says "never has the risk of the

:25:27.:25:33.

euro exploding been so great"? That's right, it is more than it

:25:33.:25:37.

was yesterday and that was more than the day before. But it is a

:25:37.:25:42.

high chance. Getting away from the British problem with the summit, I

:25:42.:25:46.

do not think there is any chance of this summit serving up something

:25:46.:25:50.

which will convince markets. If we go back to the point Tim

:25:50.:25:54.

Montgomerie and I have made, it There is a pretence now by the

:25:54.:25:57.

Germans that this is created by profligate countries like Spain and

:25:57.:26:03.

Italy. Actually, there deficit positions are better than Britain's

:26:03.:26:07.

it is created by the impossibility of these countries to prosper when

:26:07.:26:11.

they have an exchange rate which is effectively determined by how well

:26:11.:26:15.

the German economy does. There's nothing you can do with political

:26:15.:26:21.

arrangements or even with bags of German money to solve that.

:26:21.:26:24.

wonder why they are bothering and why they don't just go to dinner

:26:24.:26:29.

and enjoy themselves. Brussels has some nice restaurants. As I

:26:29.:26:32.

understood it, the purpose of trying to get a fiscal union off

:26:33.:26:37.

the ground, the ECB would then come in and become a lender of last

:26:37.:26:41.

resort and start to spread money around and buy Italian bonds that

:26:41.:26:45.

nobody wants. But the head of the ECB said this afternoon, I am not

:26:46.:26:54.

doing that. That's right, the deal was, the 17 of us have managed to

:26:54.:27:00.

come to an agreement on a closer fiscal union. And therefore, the

:27:00.:27:06.

monetary element from the ECB is put into place. But you are right.

:27:06.:27:12.

This afternoon, despite interest rates going down, he seems to have

:27:12.:27:18.

backed off or refuse to accept the requirements to ensure that that

:27:18.:27:22.

sort of borrowing is available and that the Europe-wide ECB approach

:27:22.:27:29.

is available. That is the reason why, the most recent thing I saw in

:27:29.:27:34.

terms of what was happening in Brussels was, it did not look

:27:34.:27:37.

likely that there would be any agreement either by 17 or 27

:27:37.:27:43.

nations. The Germans it said no to a bigger bail-out fund. My moment

:27:43.:27:46.

of the week might have been the threat by Standard & Poor's, the

:27:46.:27:53.

credit rating agency, to downgrade Germany. There is a 50% chance of

:27:53.:27:57.

them downgrading Germany below triple-A status. That says that the

:27:57.:28:00.

markets realise that even Germany does not have the money to rescue

:28:00.:28:04.

this thing. In the process, Germany will go from being the most

:28:05.:28:07.

creditworthy country to being less creditworthy because it is bearing

:28:07.:28:11.

the debts of other countries. is some suggestion of difficulties

:28:12.:28:18.

in German banks as well. That might be why the ECB had to step in last

:28:18.:28:23.

week. We do not cover these things in the media very well. We are more

:28:23.:28:27.

into the stock markets and so on, but in the past six months, it has

:28:27.:28:32.

become twice as expensive as it was to insure German debt. That is the

:28:32.:28:37.

market saying it is even whisky to hold German debt. You don't think

:28:37.:28:42.

that the 17th, or even the core of the 17, could do some deal to keep

:28:42.:28:48.

the show on the road? They seem to be aiming at some kind of eye and

:28:48.:28:51.

fiscal discipline which would make sure people do not run deficits and

:28:51.:28:55.

they will be punished by having their boats taken away within the

:28:55.:29:00.

Eurozone if they make a mess of their fiscal position. But the

:29:00.:29:05.

deficits are not the crux of the problem. Spain has a better deficit

:29:05.:29:11.

than we do. But it is paying 7% to borrow money. And we are paying 2%.

:29:11.:29:16.

The difference is that we are free to devalue and change our interest

:29:16.:29:22.

rates. We are free to print money. The Spanish, Italians and the Irish

:29:22.:29:27.

and so on are not free to do those things. Why? Because they are in

:29:27.:29:33.

the euro. Jacqui Smith, I wonder if sooner rather than later, we will

:29:33.:29:37.

need to have a referendum on this subject. Let's get it resolved one

:29:37.:29:42.

way or the other. Let's get Britain to make up its mind. Are we part of

:29:42.:29:46.

the European project, and if we are, let's be wholehearted. And if we

:29:46.:29:51.

are not, let's get out? There is a short term and a long-term issue

:29:51.:29:55.

here. There is what is or is not possible to be done over this

:29:55.:30:02.

weekend in order to either safe but or in my view maintain the euro,

:30:02.:30:08.

and there is a long-term question about articulating, whether it is

:30:08.:30:12.

David Cameron or the Labour opposition, articulating our view

:30:12.:30:16.

of the significance of the European Union now. It seems to me that it

:30:16.:30:19.

has to be based firstly on the benefits that come from being able

:30:19.:30:24.

to trade with 500 million people rather than a 60 million, and it

:30:24.:30:29.

comes at a point when we should be more worried about Beijing than

:30:29.:30:35.

being in a large negotiating group. But wouldn't it be worth having the

:30:35.:30:40.

debate and then the vote, for people like you to put your case

:30:40.:30:45.

and others to put theirs, and let's get it out of our system? In a way,

:30:45.:30:55.

For some of the reasons Michael was talking about earlier, I am not

:30:55.:31:00.

even convinced that if we had a referendum it would get it out of

:31:00.:31:06.

people's system. We had won over proportional representation and it

:31:06.:31:10.

kill that for the foreseeable future. This is a more fundamental

:31:11.:31:16.

issue. Let me come to this report on the summer of riots, where a lot

:31:16.:31:23.

of the rioters, surprise, surprise, blamed the police. There was a

:31:23.:31:27.

lovely bit on that comedy website where it said, police caused riots,

:31:27.:31:34.

when they eventually turned up. It is hard not to react like that.

:31:34.:31:36.

Harriet Harman did an interesting piece in the Guardian when she said

:31:36.:31:40.

she had done research in her constituency where she found that

:31:40.:31:44.

the people who did not riot disliked the police as much as the

:31:44.:31:49.

people who did riot. So there is an issue about the police and their

:31:49.:31:53.

engagement with communities, and particularly the way in which they

:31:53.:31:57.

go about stopping and searching people. But it is preposterous, in

:31:57.:32:02.

my view, to use as an excuse the fact of the way in which the police

:32:02.:32:05.

behave towards you to justify what happened in the riots. There might

:32:05.:32:10.

be a small element at the beginning that related to people's concern in

:32:10.:32:14.

Tottenham, that particular issue. But I do not believe that as it

:32:14.:32:18.

carried on that that was the cause. The one thing that the report has

:32:18.:32:23.

done is to get us talking about the riots again. That was quite a

:32:23.:32:27.

seminal moment in our country's history - shocking, appalling, and

:32:27.:32:32.

a key breaking out in major city centres. It seemed it would be a

:32:32.:32:37.

watershed. Politicians would do something, would have new attitudes.

:32:37.:32:42.

-- there was anarchy breaking out in major city centres. I think it

:32:42.:32:46.

is partly because of what we understand as the causes. We do not

:32:46.:32:49.

think this was caused by the economic downturn. We do not think

:32:49.:32:53.

it was caused by a huge social undercurrents. We think it was

:32:53.:32:57.

caused mainly by a few greedy people who were very opportunistic

:32:57.:33:03.

and turned to lawlessness. So if it is not a deep reason, it does not

:33:03.:33:07.

need a deep response, is your argument. I think if the policing

:33:07.:33:10.

response had been more appropriate, most of that would not have

:33:10.:33:13.

happened. I think the question is whether the police response next

:33:13.:33:18.

time will be better. As a former Home Secretary, you have the final

:33:18.:33:22.

word. It is wrong that the commission that has been set up is

:33:22.:33:27.

about the riots. It is more than that. It is about how we police in

:33:27.:33:29.

a time of austerity, the restructuring that is going on and

:33:29.:33:34.

how we hold the police to account. It is a -- it is a good piece of

:33:34.:33:40.

work, I think. Now, at This Week we pride ourselves on knowing the

:33:40.:33:43.

price of everything and the value of nothing. So when Defence

:33:43.:33:45.

Secretary Philip Hammond today announced that our military

:33:45.:33:48.

pyrotechnics in Libya cost the taxpayer �67 million we thought

:33:48.:33:51.

that sounded like a bargain. Because only two days previously,

:33:51.:33:54.

the Prime Minister signed off an extra �41 million for the 2012

:33:54.:33:57.

Olympics fireworks display, instantly doubling the costs to �81

:33:57.:34:02.

million! We could have bombed Syria for six months with that kind of

:34:02.:34:06.

money. So we asked comedian, actress, and east London resident,

:34:06.:34:16.
:34:16.:34:25.

Andi Osho, to put the cost of the Austerity Britain does not mean

:34:25.:34:29.

much when it comes to the Olympics. This week, David Cameron signed off

:34:29.:34:34.

an extra �41 million on the opening and closing ceremonies, doubling

:34:34.:34:37.

the costs. And the number of security guards has been

:34:38.:34:41.

underestimated, again doubling the costs. The Government spending

:34:41.:34:45.

watchdog has said there is a real risk that the �9.3 billion budget

:34:45.:34:54.

will not be enough. As someone who has lived in Newham pretty much my

:34:54.:34:57.

whole life, it has left me wondering how exactly is the

:34:57.:35:00.

Olympics going to benefit the poorest people living in the shadow

:35:00.:35:04.

of the stadium, and what is the legacy that will be left behind to

:35:04.:35:12.

benefit the community? While nearly �10 billion is being ploughed into

:35:12.:35:16.

this place, local sports facilities are being closed. I wrote to the

:35:16.:35:22.

local council, to Boris Johnson and Lord Sebastian Coe about it. Lord

:35:22.:35:26.

Coe told me it was simply outside of his control. I find that very

:35:26.:35:30.

difficult to believe. Being a local resident, we were told we would get

:35:30.:35:33.

preferential allocation when it came to tickets. This simply did

:35:33.:35:39.

not happen. I did not get any and I do not know any locals who did.

:35:40.:35:45.

This is really galling. The idea that the Olympic Games is an event

:35:45.:35:49.

for the people is a nice ideal. But you have to remember that the IOC

:35:49.:35:54.

is a private entity. The Olympic Games, a global circus there may

:35:54.:35:59.

well pass the people of East London by. And whilst the prospect of the

:35:59.:36:04.

2012 Games is an exciting one, for me, unlike a this Brownie, it has

:36:04.:36:14.
:36:14.:36:18.

So, Andi comes from that cafe in London to our little cafe here in

:36:18.:36:24.

Westminster. Welcome. Thank you. Let me ask U2 first, are you

:36:24.:36:29.

broadly enthusiastic or supportive of the Olympics, Michael? Broadly,

:36:29.:36:37.

know. Absolutely, yes. Do you have to do that? Is this a double act

:36:37.:36:43.

you have worked out? We just tossed a coin. Next week you will be like,

:36:43.:36:48.

I hate the Olympics. Tune in next weekend you will see that. Some

:36:48.:36:52.

might say you were guilty of seeing the glass half full, that we will

:36:52.:36:56.

get new sports facilities in the area, eventually open to the public,

:36:56.:37:00.

there is a new shopping centre, there will be social housing.

:37:00.:37:04.

Indeed, it is part of a process in which the whole city is being

:37:04.:37:08.

dragged East. It cannot go any more West, and that will reinvigorate

:37:08.:37:14.

the East End. Yes. I don't know about glass half full or half empty,

:37:14.:37:19.

but it would be nice to even have a glass at the moment. It is pretty

:37:19.:37:23.

empty at the moment. I guess as a local resident, I want to feel a

:37:23.:37:28.

sense of exactly what the legacy is going to be. Because it seems like

:37:28.:37:31.

the bar is getting lower and lower in terms of what they are promising.

:37:31.:37:36.

You think that the promises are getting less and less. As the

:37:36.:37:42.

budget goes up, the promises are going down. Maybe more doable. In

:37:42.:37:46.

terms of social housing and things like that, also a local sports

:37:47.:37:50.

facilities. There is a leisure centre near where I live that the

:37:50.:37:54.

council are going to close, while �10 million is being spent up the

:37:54.:37:58.

road on an Olympic site that we cannot use until 2014. And then the

:37:59.:38:04.

ticket thing. Do not start me on the ticket thing. No, let me start

:38:04.:38:08.

you. Well, I think there is something a little bit dodgy about

:38:08.:38:13.

the fact that we have this unholy union with Visa, which means people

:38:13.:38:18.

with Mastercard can go for tickets. People are spending �30,000 and

:38:18.:38:21.

getting loads of tickets. And they told us we would get preferential

:38:21.:38:28.

treatment. Have you got any tickets? I have. That is probably

:38:28.:38:33.

because you do not live in Newham. Second time round, I was there at

:38:33.:38:37.

6am and I got tickets for the hockey and the table tennis. One of

:38:37.:38:43.

the reasons I got them, which is one of the reasons I am so

:38:43.:38:47.

enthusiastic... She paid cash! dad and my mother-in-law went to

:38:47.:38:51.

the Olympics in London last time it was here and I am taking them next

:38:51.:38:56.

summer again. It is that national pride and the sense of something

:38:56.:38:59.

that may have remembered ever since they went up that I think we need.

:38:59.:39:04.

Why did you have to get up so early to get tickets a table tennis?

:39:04.:39:08.

missed out the first time round. You have a second chance. Boris

:39:08.:39:14.

Johnson has another name for it. I am sure you have got no tickets,

:39:14.:39:20.

Michael. No, but that is because I did not apply. I cannot complain.

:39:20.:39:24.

I'm told that if you do not apply, you do not get tickets. It is very

:39:24.:39:30.

difficult if you do not apply. take the point about some things

:39:30.:39:32.

closing and in these huge investments, you always wonder, if

:39:32.:39:35.

we can afford this, why can't we save the little thing round the

:39:35.:39:43.

corner. But it does mean more investment in the East End. And

:39:43.:39:48.

surely there will be a ripple effect. I came to London in 1971,

:39:48.:39:53.

and the difference from the East End... The Isle of Dogs, it was

:39:53.:39:57.

derelict. The difference now is astronomical. And this will

:39:57.:40:02.

continue the process. Definitely. There is a massive change that has

:40:02.:40:06.

happened in the East End. But I am not sure exactly how it affects the

:40:07.:40:10.

people that live there who are already there. Is it about bringing

:40:10.:40:14.

wealth into the area, or about raising the standard of living for

:40:14.:40:19.

the people already there? Despite the fact that you have Canary Wharf,

:40:19.:40:23.

the east London boroughs are still some of the most deprived areas in

:40:23.:40:27.

the country. We hear a lot about the North-South divide, but some of

:40:27.:40:35.

the poorest parts of Britain are in East London. �9.3 billion, as we

:40:35.:40:39.

begin the last decade. All of it concentrated on one small part of

:40:39.:40:45.

Britain, and doubts about what the real impact will be. Is this really

:40:45.:40:49.

money well spent? I have told you what I think one of the benefits is,

:40:49.:40:53.

the sense of national pride. There were two other reasons we went for

:40:53.:40:59.

the Olympics. I am quite proud without spending 9.3 billion.

:40:59.:41:05.

would be proud if we spend it on regenerating the area. But that was

:41:05.:41:10.

one of the other reasons for getting the Olympics. In six years,

:41:10.:41:14.

there has been the regeneration that would have taken 60 years.

:41:14.:41:18.

Where I have sympathy is that the other reason, of course, was to

:41:18.:41:22.

develop sport among young people, to leave the real legacy of kids

:41:22.:41:26.

feeling inspired by the Olympics. Given some of the decisions this

:41:26.:41:30.

Government has taken, removing some of the support available to schools

:41:30.:41:33.

for sport, some of the things you were talking about with local

:41:33.:41:36.

leisure centres, I am not convinced that will be delivered and that

:41:36.:41:41.

will be a real shame. I wonder about the sports legacy. Some of

:41:41.:41:45.

the money they paid for it came from the lottery, which was already

:41:45.:41:51.

funding sports facility -- facilities. It was getting straight

:41:51.:41:56.

to local level. And also this thing of local facilities closing and the

:41:56.:42:00.

Olympics being there, and we are told that local people are going to

:42:00.:42:05.

be able to use the Olympic facilities, but not until 2014. In

:42:05.:42:10.

the meantime, what? We are allowed to use Wimbledon, are we? And

:42:11.:42:16.

Wembley? I would not count on that. I wonder, on the night, when it

:42:16.:42:19.

begins and the eyes of the world will be not just on London but on

:42:19.:42:24.

your part of London, there won't be a little bit of pride going through

:42:24.:42:31.

the veins? Definitely. I am really happy we won the Olympic bid. I was

:42:31.:42:34.

there in Trafalgar Square and I am glad we got this event. However,

:42:34.:42:38.

huge promises were made about a legacy and I just want those

:42:38.:42:42.

promises to be kept. I think that is fair enough. Thank you for being

:42:42.:42:46.

with us. That's your lot for tonight folks.

:42:46.:42:49.

It's our Christmas show next week and we'll be joined by a special

:42:49.:42:53.

guest, actor David Morrissey. Oh, and Diane will be back, but you

:42:53.:42:57.

can't have everything, I suppose. We leave you with news that the

:42:57.:43:01.

music for the 2012 opening ceremony will be overseen by the techno rave

:43:01.:43:03.

outfit Underworld, who famously provided the soundtrack to

:43:03.:43:06.