08/12/2011 This Week

As the winter weather begins to bite, This Week marks the end of

David Attenborough's epic series Arctic conditions blowing across

the eurozone. Is David Cameron about to be frozen out of Europe's

future? Tory activist and blogger Tim Montgomerie gives the PM the

cold shoulder. As well as fighting for Britain's place in Europe,

David Cameron also has to deal with the icy relations with his own

party. A festive scene in far-away lands

but is Germany willing to play the role of Father Christmas?

Journalist and commentator, Anne McElvoy, goes back in time to look

for some answers. Britain and Europe need some festive cheer, but

can Angela and Nicholas serve it up. And a spectacular light show in the

Arctic skies but are the Olympic fireworks really worth the extra

millions? One of Newham's most chilled residents, comedian Andi

Osho, is getting hot under the collar. While the finishing touches

are being put on the Olympic stadium, I am worried about the

legacy that will be left behind for local people. This is the political

Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week. And a special welcome to pro-

Europeans in the Tory Party, fans of Tony Blair in the Labour Party

and, come the next election, Members of Parliament from the

Liberal Democrats. Endangered species, one and all, the likes of

which we may never see again. But when it comes to those on the verge

of extinction maybe we've turned a corner. Because this week

Westminster's very own panda, Ed Miliband, was joined by two more

doe-eyed creatures, raised, like him, in a Marxist one-party state

after the Chinese finally stepped in to help the floundering eurozone,

not with their foreign exchange reserves but with their panda-

exchange reserves. Just what the British economy needs, two more

unemployed layabouts sponging off the state, desperately trying to

get knocked up in a sordid attempt to keep a taxpayer-funded roof over

their heads. But I suppose that means they'll feel pretty much at

home in Scotland. Speaking of those who are a burden on society, I'm

joined on the sofa tonight by two of politics most recalcitrant NEETS,

neither of whom is in education, employment or training, the Wayne

and Waynetta Slob of late night political chat. I speak, of course,

of Michael Portillo and, currently trending as "Blairite on the left",

Jacqui Smith. Michael, your moment. In this

matter of the euro, I have to hand it to the Mayor of London, Boris

Johnson, who came up with a good phrase he borrowed from someone

else. He said in this matter of the euro, the Europeans are saving the

cancer and not saving the patient. And the analogy is right. What is

killing Europe is the euro, and what the European leaders are doing

is rushing to save the euro, the cancer, while the patient goes on

dying. Even the British Government is in favour of saving the cancer

rather than the patient. It must be a good phrase if you are praising

something Boris Johnson said. You've got it! I will mark that in

mind never happened before file. Jacqui. Yesterday was the final

episode of the Frozen Planet. What was interesting was David

Attenborough, father of the nation, taking the opportunity to remind

everybody about the dangers of climate change, suggesting that the

Arctic that they have been exploring for the last seven weeks,

the ice may be gone by 2020. Stark contrast to the emphasis that has

been placed on what is happening in South Africa in Durban at the

moment, where the whole issue has very much gone off the political

agenda, even from a Prime Minister who told us if we bloated -- voted

blue we would get green. We will not be much in that again tonight

because it is not on our agenda, so you make a good point.

Now, call-me-Dave has today hot- footed it over to Brussels again,

back into the warm, familiar, comforting bosom of Angela Merkel.

But here at home, euro-sceptic Tory MPs, or illegitimate children as we

will soon start calling them, have begged him not to surrender to her

fulsome charms, or the eurozone's attempt to form an ever closer

union. Whether he manages to resist and show some bulldog spirit,

remains to be seen. So we've asked, Conservative journalist and blogger

Tim Montgomerie for his take of the Just like me, David Cameron might

be getting the Belgian beer in tonight. In Brussels, he will be

ordering food. But by Kieran Britain, left behind him, the huge

issue of Europe, an unexploded bomb at the heart of the Conservative

Party. -- but back here in Britain. It is the issue that will not go

away, and that taking is getting Thank you. The majority of the

Conservative Party now think it is time to defuse the bomb. The Euro-

sceptics are often dismissed as the frothing at the mouth, swivel-eyed,

blazers and ties Brigade. But they feel they were vindicated about the

euro and that their voice deserves to be heard. They feel David

Cameron ignores them at his peril. Some people take a superficial look

at opinion polls and say the issue of Europe does not matter. David

Cameron cannot be someone who will make that mistake. In 1992 he stood

alongside Norman Lamont when Britain crashed out of the exchange

rate mechanism and the Conservative Party's reputation for economic

competence was ruined for regeneration. He knows that the

The eurozone crisis should be a blaring signal to EU leaders to

change course. Thank you. But actually they are doubling down on

the same old failed model. Most Tory members do not think economic

recovery will start until the European economies to leave the

euro straitjacket. Of course, a break-up will be painful but

essential surgery always is. In terms of his career, David Cameron

will obviously survive this episode. The economic crisis is so grave

that not enough Tory MPs will want to rock the boat. But he will be

undermined by the fact that at Europe's maximum moment of weakness

he gave up all of his cards before he even got to the negotiating

table. If he fails to flex his muscles in Brussels, the ticking

from that bomb is only going to get louder and louder.

Tim Montgomery joins us. Welcome. Michael, he says an unexploded bomb

at the heart of the Tory party. Do you agree? Absolutely. It has been

lying there for about 40 years. Europe is a curse for the Tory

party which threatens to destroy it. Actually, it has already destroyed

Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, John Major, and there is no reason to

think it will not destroy David Cameron. That is absolutely

possible. I think the only way in which he can be saved is that this

summit is about something even more important than Britain's

relationship with Europe. It is about whether the euro survives. My

bet is that the euro is not going to survive and that as it crashes

we will be rescued from this problem about having to negotiate a

new treaty with the Europeans. That is not to say that this problem is

not very deep. It is very deep and David Cameron is in a real bind, a

real crisis. What would you say to David Cameron if he was here and he

said, I am a Euro-sceptic like you and I want to repatriate powers but

the crisis at the moment is about the eurozone. If the eurozone goes

belly-up it will drag down the British economy into a deep

recession, maybe even a depression, so I need to help to sort that out

first. If he was doing that, I would applaud him and most

conservative members would. I agree with what Michael was saying and

what Boris Johnson said earlier this week. The eurozone and its

one-size-fits-all interest rate is the problem. The debt, the lack of

competitiveness of economies like Greece and Spain within the

eurozone. We all know it would be incredibly difficult if the euro

breaks up, but as I said in the film, it is like essential surgery,

it is painful, but once it is done we can begin to recover. If that is

the case and that is what a lot of Conservatives think, Jacqui, it is

a difficult line for the Prime Minister to walk as Prime Minister

of the country on the one hand and leader of the Conservatives on the

other. He has got himself into this situation. Leaving aside what the

long-term strategic Right Thing For Europe is, six years ago he won his

place as leader of the Conservative Party by a winning over the right

by moving away from the Conservative group within Europe.

That is the reason why he was not in Marseilles with Merkel and

Sarkozy today, or before the summit. And just a few weeks ago, when

facing a rebellion, there were nudges and winks, don't rebel

because it is OK, we are going to repatriate and there will be a

referendum at some point. That makes it very difficult, if you are

saying one thing to your backbenchers and you need to do

another thing within Europe to achieve your strategic ends, you

have brought the problem upon yourself. I agree with that. When

he was facing that rebellion of the 81 as it turned out and he was

trying to defuse it, he did say, when the opportunity came to

renegotiate Britain's relationship with Europe, another treaty, he

would take it and look for fundamental reform. And now, of

course, the opportunity has come so soon and he is saying it is too

difficult. That is part of the reason he has got into this pickle.

To be fair to him, all Conservative prime ministers find themselves in

this position, even Margaret Thatcher. They have obligations,

they are sucked into difficulties in Europe which mean they lose

their perspective of what they owe to their party. Margaret Thatcher

signed the Single European Act. I think one of the reasons that she

became so vehemently anti- European, why she made those great speeches

at the end, why she was brought down, was that she deeply regretted

signing the Single European Act. Let's not pretend David Cameron is

the first Tory Prime Minister to find itself in his position. What

is it about the Tories who are now saying that the eurozone itself is

a problem and cannot be fixed, cannot be put right, because the

British Labour Party does not think that, the British Liberal Democrats

do not think it, the French socialists do not think it, the

German Social Democrats do not think it, the German Christian

Democrats don't think it, the Spanish Christian Democrats don't...

How long do I have to go on? What is so different about British

Tories? I think it is the British people. One of the things we know

is that if there is a referendum, which David Cameron wishes to avoid,

whatever the question may be, the answer from the British people will

be No. The British people's heart is not in the European project,

period. I am not talking about the euro, but the European project. It

is to do with being an island, to do with our different experience in

World War II, to do with understanding that a club is a

thing whose rules do not change, whereas the Europeans are in a

process whose rules change all the time. We are fundamentally unsuited

to this project, as a people. you agree with that in any way,

Jacqui, it is hard for a Labour leader to be seen to be pro Europe

and get much traction. Which is why, what you have seen interestingly in

recent weeks from Douglas Alexander is a more pragmatic approach to

Europe, the argument that some of the things we have used in the past

to justify and to try to win support are not sufficient, and we

need to develop a new argument, a positive argument for why we need

to be engaged in Europe. But nevertheless, not going in a gung-

ho way, trying to defend the status quo. It was part of the Blairite

project to be pro-Europe, given Michael Foot's attitude and the

attitude of the hard left. The ambition was to be the height of

maternity at one stage. There are still strong arguments for why we

would want to be part of Europe. But it does not make you a

moderniser. We do not think of ourselves in those stark ways.

There are more fundamental arguments. Tim, you say that

Cameron will ignore the sceptics at his peril. What does that mean? How

much damage are they prepared to do to him? They have not got an

alternative. They have not got taking over the water, unless you

count Boris Johnson. That has been David Cameron's advantage for a

long time, there is no obvious successor. This is not about a Tory

leadership race. So why does he ignore them at his peril? I think

the issue goes back to what Jacqui was talking about, what is the

moderniser position? The moderniser position is to record -- recognise

that the European model is the out of date thing. This economic model

that is about big welfare states, lots of regulation, high taxes,

agricultural subsidies, protectionism. As long as we

changed to that as a country we do not solve our fundamental economic

problems. I think Cameron's failure to articulate a big vision for a

new Europe is the reason why people are not willing to follow him.

me explain something that Euro- sceptics psychology which I think I

understand. The British sovereignty issue matters more to Euro-sceptics

than the result of the next election, than the fortunes of the

Prime Minister, than their own seat. It matters more than anything.

is like Ireland to the Liberal Party at the end of the 19th

century, or like free trade used to be to the Tories. We would be in

the euro if it were not for one person, Gordon Brown, not a member

of the Conservative Party. I wonder whether this upsurge of attacks on

Cameron because of the euro and the eurozone actually goes deeper than

that. There is a big chunk of the Tory party who blame him for not

winning an overall majority in the election, they hate him -- they

hate the idea, they think he likes the Lib Dems more than his own

people, they do not think he manages the party very well and

there are host of other reasons, too. There is a Tory class war that

could come into it. These are the unspoken parts that add an edge to

But I think I do agree. Tim is better placed to answer that.

Nonetheless, all those things added together do not matter a jot

compared with the European question. It burns so deeply in people's

souls. It is getting pretty nasty when the Conservative Prime

Minister is now compared by his own side to Neville Chamberlain. I am a

deep Euro-sceptic, and it would be great if we could talk about Europe

and Germany without resorting to World War II imagery. Germany is a

great modern country now. They may not have the right answers on

Europe, but can we get rid of that? Do you agree with the proposition I

made that it goes deeper than Europe? Absolutely. It is something

I have written in this week's spectator. It is about losing the

election and not using the crisis we have to reform the tax system,

and it is about a once in a generation opportunity to change

our relationship with Europe, and not taking it.

Now, it is late. Babestation late, if you know what I mean. But don't

change the channel yet, because coming up, comedienne and actress

Andi Osho will be telling us why not everyone in east London is

looking forward to the coxless fours in 2012. The those of you who

claim to never watch the show, remember, you can post your

comments on our into Web page or follow us on the Facebook or

Twooter. With Christmas approaching, our

thoughts naturally turn to where we will also spend Christmas Day

together. Michael's house is to posh. Jacqui Smith's bedroom is too

small and could not be regarded as a principal residence. So we will

probably do what we always do and go to die and's house, where the

only Christmas spirit is Caribbean rum. Here is a Dickens inspired

Christmas round-up of the political Christmas is coming, and the keys

and a few bankers are getting fat. Elsewhere, it is thin gruel. The

Eurozone and economy are up the spout and the gap between the haves

and have-nots is getting wider. It is a kind of scenario that will

have motivated Charles Dickens. The author of A Christmas Carol would

have understood the idea of an austerity Christmas. Even David

Cameron, asked about his mutual friends, said that this year, he

would be making it a quiet one. the Prime Minister tell us if he

will be having his usual Christmas bash with Rebekah Brooks and Jeremy

Clarkson? If so, will they be talking about just how out of touch

they are with British public opinion? I seem to remember the

annual sleepover was with the former Labour prime minister. I

will be having a quiet family Christmas.

It is not quite back to the Dickensian workhouse or the

betters' prison where Mr de it languished, but there are over 2.5

million unemployed, and the work programme, the government's

equivalent of the Poor Laws, is grinding slowly. The Labour's Ed

Balls, it was a sign that hard times would be made worse by the

coalition Scrooges. With growth undershooting expectations in

October, with borrowing set to be higher than he planned, with even

the IMF calling for a change of course, why is the Chancellor

ploughing on? There is not one single credible mainstream party in

Europe that is advocating the position he advocates. We have done

research and come across the workers' struggle party in France,

and the Communist parties of Spain, Switzerland, Finland, Romania and

Moldova. Those are his new fellow- travellers. If he had his Communist

manifesto, it would be workers of the Labour Party, unite. We have

nothing to lose except our Shadow Chancellor. But the real ghosts

stalking the feast our European ones. David Cameron created greater

expectations of repatriating powers from the EU to Britain, and a lot

of his backbenchers will not let him forget that. The new closeness

of the fiscal union between France and Germany is also worrying to

Britain. And there is another ghost of Tory leaders past swinging her

handbag. Six weeks ago, he was promising his backbenchers a hand

bagging for Europe. Now he is just reduced to hand-wringing. That is

the reality of this Prime Minister. The problem for Britain is that at

the most important European summit for a generation, that matters

hugely for families and businesses in the country, the Prime Minister

rose simply left on the sidelines. Even the best of joke on handbags

will not save his leadership. course, as well as being an author,

dickens was a journalist. So what would the great chronicler of human

absurdity have made of the latest inquiries into the hacking scandal?

Parliament heard from four gentlemen who do seem to lead

active lives. There is arguing, and when that fails, there is violence,

which I have tried. I have been arrested twice and had my car

Stanley knife Dover every surface in retribution. Poor Hugh, it is so

hard being famous, and even harder if like Max Mosley, you think it

takes more than two to tango. Breach of privacy can never be put

right. In my case, the News Of The World had been forced to print on

their front page "this was actually a private Georgi". That would not

have helped me much. No, it wouldn't. But you could go for a

striking metaphor, though perhaps not the one that Zac Goldsmith

chose. If the only way business can stay afloat is by engaging in a

more unethical behaviour, but business should change its model or

go out of business. No police said Auschwitz should have been kept

open because it created jobs. Dickens would have recognised the

anger and frustration being played out on the streets of Moscow this

week. Vladimir Putin stands accused of rigging the elections. When I

covered Russia in the early '90s, there were still hopes of an open

society and a real democracy. Mr Putin has decided not to bother

with that. Russia, with this government and these leaders and

these cheats and thieves, has no future. It is not as if all is

quiet on the Western Front. This week, a new report showed that a

lot of people blame the police for the summer riots. As Fagin might

have put it, it is a shame when it was as getting the way of an honest

bit of looting. The shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper said her

party would hold its own investigation under Lord Stevens,

the former Met chief, who was worried about disorder breaking out

again on the streets, a bit like this, perhaps. Can you move away?

Look, will you move away? Oh, no! It is Ed Balls again. Well, here is

looking forward to an austerity Christmas with none of the

trimmings and a very small turkey for a nation of cracked its. God

bless us, everyone. Is that it? ho ho, Merry Christmas to one and

all. The Economist's and McElvoy in the

Museum of London. We have done the Tories in Europe,

now Europe. Is Sarkozy right when he says "never has the risk of the

euro exploding been so great"? That's right, it is more than it

was yesterday and that was more than the day before. But it is a

high chance. Getting away from the British problem with the summit, I

do not think there is any chance of this summit serving up something

which will convince markets. If we go back to the point Tim

Montgomerie and I have made, it There is a pretence now by the

Germans that this is created by profligate countries like Spain and

Italy. Actually, there deficit positions are better than Britain's

it is created by the impossibility of these countries to prosper when

they have an exchange rate which is effectively determined by how well

the German economy does. There's nothing you can do with political

arrangements or even with bags of German money to solve that.

wonder why they are bothering and why they don't just go to dinner

and enjoy themselves. Brussels has some nice restaurants. As I

understood it, the purpose of trying to get a fiscal union off

the ground, the ECB would then come in and become a lender of last

resort and start to spread money around and buy Italian bonds that

nobody wants. But the head of the ECB said this afternoon, I am not

doing that. That's right, the deal was, the 17 of us have managed to

come to an agreement on a closer fiscal union. And therefore, the

monetary element from the ECB is put into place. But you are right.

This afternoon, despite interest rates going down, he seems to have

backed off or refuse to accept the requirements to ensure that that

sort of borrowing is available and that the Europe-wide ECB approach

is available. That is the reason why, the most recent thing I saw in

terms of what was happening in Brussels was, it did not look

likely that there would be any agreement either by 17 or 27

nations. The Germans it said no to a bigger bail-out fund. My moment

of the week might have been the threat by Standard & Poor's, the

credit rating agency, to downgrade Germany. There is a 50% chance of

them downgrading Germany below triple-A status. That says that the

markets realise that even Germany does not have the money to rescue

this thing. In the process, Germany will go from being the most

creditworthy country to being less creditworthy because it is bearing

the debts of other countries. is some suggestion of difficulties

in German banks as well. That might be why the ECB had to step in last

week. We do not cover these things in the media very well. We are more

into the stock markets and so on, but in the past six months, it has

become twice as expensive as it was to insure German debt. That is the

market saying it is even whisky to hold German debt. You don't think

that the 17th, or even the core of the 17, could do some deal to keep

the show on the road? They seem to be aiming at some kind of eye and

fiscal discipline which would make sure people do not run deficits and

they will be punished by having their boats taken away within the

Eurozone if they make a mess of their fiscal position. But the

deficits are not the crux of the problem. Spain has a better deficit

than we do. But it is paying 7% to borrow money. And we are paying 2%.

The difference is that we are free to devalue and change our interest

rates. We are free to print money. The Spanish, Italians and the Irish

and so on are not free to do those things. Why? Because they are in

the euro. Jacqui Smith, I wonder if sooner rather than later, we will

need to have a referendum on this subject. Let's get it resolved one

way or the other. Let's get Britain to make up its mind. Are we part of

the European project, and if we are, let's be wholehearted. And if we

are not, let's get out? There is a short term and a long-term issue

here. There is what is or is not possible to be done over this

weekend in order to either safe but or in my view maintain the euro,

and there is a long-term question about articulating, whether it is

David Cameron or the Labour opposition, articulating our view

of the significance of the European Union now. It seems to me that it

has to be based firstly on the benefits that come from being able

to trade with 500 million people rather than a 60 million, and it

comes at a point when we should be more worried about Beijing than

being in a large negotiating group. But wouldn't it be worth having the

debate and then the vote, for people like you to put your case

and others to put theirs, and let's get it out of our system? In a way,

For some of the reasons Michael was talking about earlier, I am not

even convinced that if we had a referendum it would get it out of

people's system. We had won over proportional representation and it

kill that for the foreseeable future. This is a more fundamental

issue. Let me come to this report on the summer of riots, where a lot

of the rioters, surprise, surprise, blamed the police. There was a

lovely bit on that comedy website where it said, police caused riots,

when they eventually turned up. It is hard not to react like that.

Harriet Harman did an interesting piece in the Guardian when she said

she had done research in her constituency where she found that

the people who did not riot disliked the police as much as the

people who did riot. So there is an issue about the police and their

engagement with communities, and particularly the way in which they

go about stopping and searching people. But it is preposterous, in

my view, to use as an excuse the fact of the way in which the police

behave towards you to justify what happened in the riots. There might

be a small element at the beginning that related to people's concern in

Tottenham, that particular issue. But I do not believe that as it

carried on that that was the cause. The one thing that the report has

done is to get us talking about the riots again. That was quite a

seminal moment in our country's history - shocking, appalling, and

a key breaking out in major city centres. It seemed it would be a

watershed. Politicians would do something, would have new attitudes.

-- there was anarchy breaking out in major city centres. I think it

is partly because of what we understand as the causes. We do not

think this was caused by the economic downturn. We do not think

it was caused by a huge social undercurrents. We think it was

caused mainly by a few greedy people who were very opportunistic

and turned to lawlessness. So if it is not a deep reason, it does not

need a deep response, is your argument. I think if the policing

response had been more appropriate, most of that would not have

happened. I think the question is whether the police response next

time will be better. As a former Home Secretary, you have the final

word. It is wrong that the commission that has been set up is

about the riots. It is more than that. It is about how we police in

a time of austerity, the restructuring that is going on and

how we hold the police to account. It is a -- it is a good piece of

work, I think. Now, at This Week we pride ourselves on knowing the

price of everything and the value of nothing. So when Defence

Secretary Philip Hammond today announced that our military

pyrotechnics in Libya cost the taxpayer �67 million we thought

that sounded like a bargain. Because only two days previously,

the Prime Minister signed off an extra �41 million for the 2012

Olympics fireworks display, instantly doubling the costs to �81

million! We could have bombed Syria for six months with that kind of

money. So we asked comedian, actress, and east London resident,

Andi Osho, to put the cost of the Austerity Britain does not mean

much when it comes to the Olympics. This week, David Cameron signed off

an extra �41 million on the opening and closing ceremonies, doubling

the costs. And the number of security guards has been

underestimated, again doubling the costs. The Government spending

watchdog has said there is a real risk that the �9.3 billion budget

will not be enough. As someone who has lived in Newham pretty much my

whole life, it has left me wondering how exactly is the

Olympics going to benefit the poorest people living in the shadow

of the stadium, and what is the legacy that will be left behind to

benefit the community? While nearly �10 billion is being ploughed into

this place, local sports facilities are being closed. I wrote to the

local council, to Boris Johnson and Lord Sebastian Coe about it. Lord

Coe told me it was simply outside of his control. I find that very

difficult to believe. Being a local resident, we were told we would get

preferential allocation when it came to tickets. This simply did

not happen. I did not get any and I do not know any locals who did.

This is really galling. The idea that the Olympic Games is an event

for the people is a nice ideal. But you have to remember that the IOC

is a private entity. The Olympic Games, a global circus there may

well pass the people of East London by. And whilst the prospect of the

2012 Games is an exciting one, for me, unlike a this Brownie, it has

So, Andi comes from that cafe in London to our little cafe here in

Westminster. Welcome. Thank you. Let me ask U2 first, are you

broadly enthusiastic or supportive of the Olympics, Michael? Broadly,

know. Absolutely, yes. Do you have to do that? Is this a double act

you have worked out? We just tossed a coin. Next week you will be like,

I hate the Olympics. Tune in next weekend you will see that. Some

might say you were guilty of seeing the glass half full, that we will

get new sports facilities in the area, eventually open to the public,

there is a new shopping centre, there will be social housing.

Indeed, it is part of a process in which the whole city is being

dragged East. It cannot go any more West, and that will reinvigorate

the East End. Yes. I don't know about glass half full or half empty,

but it would be nice to even have a glass at the moment. It is pretty

empty at the moment. I guess as a local resident, I want to feel a

sense of exactly what the legacy is going to be. Because it seems like

the bar is getting lower and lower in terms of what they are promising.

You think that the promises are getting less and less. As the

budget goes up, the promises are going down. Maybe more doable. In

terms of social housing and things like that, also a local sports

facilities. There is a leisure centre near where I live that the

council are going to close, while �10 million is being spent up the

road on an Olympic site that we cannot use until 2014. And then the

ticket thing. Do not start me on the ticket thing. No, let me start

you. Well, I think there is something a little bit dodgy about

the fact that we have this unholy union with Visa, which means people

with Mastercard can go for tickets. People are spending �30,000 and

getting loads of tickets. And they told us we would get preferential

treatment. Have you got any tickets? I have. That is probably

because you do not live in Newham. Second time round, I was there at

6am and I got tickets for the hockey and the table tennis. One of

the reasons I got them, which is one of the reasons I am so

enthusiastic... She paid cash! dad and my mother-in-law went to

the Olympics in London last time it was here and I am taking them next

summer again. It is that national pride and the sense of something

that may have remembered ever since they went up that I think we need.

Why did you have to get up so early to get tickets a table tennis?

missed out the first time round. You have a second chance. Boris

Johnson has another name for it. I am sure you have got no tickets,

Michael. No, but that is because I did not apply. I cannot complain.

I'm told that if you do not apply, you do not get tickets. It is very

difficult if you do not apply. take the point about some things

closing and in these huge investments, you always wonder, if

we can afford this, why can't we save the little thing round the

corner. But it does mean more investment in the East End. And

surely there will be a ripple effect. I came to London in 1971,

and the difference from the East End... The Isle of Dogs, it was

derelict. The difference now is astronomical. And this will

continue the process. Definitely. There is a massive change that has

happened in the East End. But I am not sure exactly how it affects the

people that live there who are already there. Is it about bringing

wealth into the area, or about raising the standard of living for

the people already there? Despite the fact that you have Canary Wharf,

the east London boroughs are still some of the most deprived areas in

the country. We hear a lot about the North-South divide, but some of

the poorest parts of Britain are in East London. �9.3 billion, as we

begin the last decade. All of it concentrated on one small part of

Britain, and doubts about what the real impact will be. Is this really

money well spent? I have told you what I think one of the benefits is,

the sense of national pride. There were two other reasons we went for

the Olympics. I am quite proud without spending 9.3 billion.

would be proud if we spend it on regenerating the area. But that was

one of the other reasons for getting the Olympics. In six years,

there has been the regeneration that would have taken 60 years.

Where I have sympathy is that the other reason, of course, was to

develop sport among young people, to leave the real legacy of kids

feeling inspired by the Olympics. Given some of the decisions this

Government has taken, removing some of the support available to schools

for sport, some of the things you were talking about with local

leisure centres, I am not convinced that will be delivered and that

will be a real shame. I wonder about the sports legacy. Some of

the money they paid for it came from the lottery, which was already

funding sports facility -- facilities. It was getting straight

to local level. And also this thing of local facilities closing and the

Olympics being there, and we are told that local people are going to

be able to use the Olympic facilities, but not until 2014. In

the meantime, what? We are allowed to use Wimbledon, are we? And

Wembley? I would not count on that. I wonder, on the night, when it

begins and the eyes of the world will be not just on London but on

your part of London, there won't be a little bit of pride going through

the veins? Definitely. I am really happy we won the Olympic bid. I was

there in Trafalgar Square and I am glad we got this event. However,

huge promises were made about a legacy and I just want those

promises to be kept. I think that is fair enough. Thank you for being

with us. That's your lot for tonight folks.

It's our Christmas show next week and we'll be joined by a special

guest, actor David Morrissey. Oh, and Diane will be back, but you

can't have everything, I suppose. We leave you with news that the

music for the 2012 opening ceremony will be overseen by the techno rave

outfit Underworld, who famously provided the soundtrack to