Browse content similar to 24/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, as the sun finally comes out, This Week takes a sunny stroll | :00:09. | :00:16. | |
around the Westminster garden. As the IMF struggles to spot green | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
shoots of recovery, things aren't looking too rosy for the UK economy. | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
But if jobs don't grow on trees, would employers be tempted to hire | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
more if they could fire more? Britain's top advertising executive, | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
Sir Martin Sorrell, wants to prune the red tape. We want to see more | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
flexibility in the UK market. It is an example we see all around the | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
world. It means faster growth and more jobs for the UK. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
With Greece continuing to wilt under the harsh glare of the | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
bailout conditions, will the country be forced to uproot itself | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
from the eurozone? The Guardian's Nick Watt is sewing | :00:54. | :01:01. | |
the political seeds. Some people, including our Prime Minister, | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
believe the grass is always greener in an English country garden. But | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
the deputy groundsman differed and said, "Don't be beastly to the | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
Europeans." And it's not all rosy in the | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
welfare garden, as the Government considers cutting benefits to | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
addicts. Is the stick really better than the carrot? | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
Tabloid favourite and former addict Kerry Katona speaks from experience. | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
Nobody could help me other than myself and that is what I did when | :01:34. | :01:43. | |
I hit rock bottom. Here comes the sun. | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
Here comes the This Week, I say. It's all right, doo doo doo doo doo | :01:47. | :01:56. | |
:01:57. | :02:03. | ||
It's hot. Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week, | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
a political Shangri-La deep in the heart of Westminster-on-Thames, | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
just up the river from Staines. Boyakasha!! | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
Although it seems we have some rather laid-back competition these | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
days, specifically from the coalition chillax zone, previously | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
known as Number 10 Downing Street. For those who can't be bothered | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
keeping up with such things, let me enlighten you. According to a new | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
book, when it comes to the work- life balance issue, our Prime | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
Minister isn't just "very relaxed" about it, he's "positively | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
horizontal" which means he's at least got something in common with | :02:30. | :02:40. | |
:02:40. | :02:43. | ||
the economy the rest of us live in. But at least we can all rest easy | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
in our bean bags, safe in the knowledge that the ship of state is | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
in the capable hands of the idle rich. | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
Yes, at Call-me-DVD-Dave's gaffe it's weekend karaoke, snooker, | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
tennis against a machine known as "the Clegger" all rounded-off with | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
a decent Sunday lunch with three or four glasses of the old Blue Nun | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
special cuvee, the PM's very own "chillaxative" so to speak. | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
What need is there of red boxes when you're close to finishing | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
level four of Fruit Ninja on your iPad? | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
Speaking of those who avoid heavy lifting at all costs, I'm joined on | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
the sofa tonight by two of Westminster's most proficient | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
muttering idiots. The Ed Balls and Lucille Ball of | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
late-night political chat. I speak, of course, of | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
#manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson. And #sadmanonatrain Michael "choo | :03:24. | :03:34. | |
:03:34. | :03:41. | ||
choo" Portillo. Your moment of the week? Mr aL-Megrahi died this week. | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
He was released by a United Kingdom Government that wanted to count out | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
to Colonel Gaddafi and by a Scottish Government that thought he | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
had been wrongly convicted. He may indeed have been wrongly convicted. | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
It is not for politicians to decide to let people out... And there was | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
an appeal pending? There was an appeal pending. The idea that he | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
was being let out on humanitarian grounds was absurd. You can't let | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
out people because they might die - we are all dying! You are a cheery | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
lad tonight(!) Has the heat gone to the brain? It was a sorry day for | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
British politics. Politicians tried to convince us to give up our civil | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
liberties to fight terrorism. When we get a convicted terrorist behind | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
bars we let him go. Alan, your moment? It is today's net migration | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
statistics. 166,000 and 2 52,000. 166,000 was the net migration | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
figures in the last year of the Labour Government. That open-door | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
policy that we are supposed to have had. It come down from the previous | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
two years. 2 52,000 is the latest statistic. That is the net figure? | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
The problem for David Cameron - I'm not criticising him for the figures | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
- but he said he would bring that down to the tens of thousands and | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
it's mission impossible for him. There is one in Number Ten ought to | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
be thinking about how to get out of this. It is going to get worse. | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
have had the Minister on the Daily Politics the several times. He | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
always says, "Oh no, we will still do it." We will have him on again. | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
I doubt it very much. Now would you believe it, there's | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
been a bit of name-calling in Westminster this week! Adrian | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
Beecroft, the man tasked with overhauling Britain's employment | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
laws, was accused by Vince the Cable of coming up with a "bonkers" | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
proposal to make firing employees much easier, whilst Sir Adrian | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
retorted that the Business Secretary was nothing more than "a | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
socialist." What a ridiculous suggestion. Vince | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
used to be a Glasgow Labour councillor. | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
Oh. I see what he means. Anyway, there's only one way to settle | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
this: Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! But before things get too messy, | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
we've asked mad-man ad-man, Martin Sorrell, to give us his take of the | :06:04. | :06:14. | |
:06:14. | :06:31. | ||
I'm CEO of WPPP. We have 158,000 in 108 countries. The real challenge | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
around growth and obviously jobs because with growth comes jobs. The | :06:35. | :06:44. | |
Government has to put together a comprehensive and co-hee sieve plan | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
-- cohesive plan. How is the Beecroft plan affecting | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
flexibility? If it is easy to reduce it, it is easier to increase | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
it. We get greater flexibility as a result. So people will put it | :07:00. | :07:07. | |
crudely saying it enables people to fire more easily and the more | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
positive side of it would be it will enable people to high more -- | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
hire more more easily. It is an attempt to get more jobs and growth, | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
which is the central issue the Government faces. The economy in | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
the world that was easiest to do that in was the United States. | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
There you have much more flexibility in hiring and firing, | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
in hiring and reducing labour forces. As a result, we can | :07:38. | :07:45. | |
literally turn on a sixpence to do that. The American attitude to | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
labour flexibility is much more constructed. One thing I would say | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
that we have been affected by is the so-called TUPE legislation. | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
That means that if we win a piece of business, the Agency that loses | :07:58. | :08:08. | |
:08:08. | :08:09. | ||
it, where people in that agency have been 24/7 or soley employed on | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
that account, they have employment rights to transfer with the | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
business to us as the winning agency. If we lost the piece of | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
business, the winning agency would have to take those people on from | :08:20. | :08:27. | |
our agency. That is inherently a little bit strange. On balance, I | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
think Beecroft was in the right direction. What he was doing was | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
trying to seek greater mobility, particularly - and this is very | :08:34. | :08:44. | |
:08:44. | :08:53. | ||
important - for smaller companies. Martin Sorrell. What an intro. | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
glad you didn't cut your wrists listening to them! Are you saying | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
if it was easier to fire people you would hire more people? If there | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
was more flexibility in the market, the answer is yes. I think we saw | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
that in America post-Lehman, particularly in the first, the | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
second half of 2009. We didn't react as quickly as possibly we | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
should have done to the first half of 2009 and the tough economic | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
conditions. In America, the attitude obviously - look, from an | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
ethical point of view, one doesn't like unemployment and the | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
adjustment. The Americans, there was a film starring George Clooney | :09:33. | :09:40. | |
which tried to describe what it is like in America. There's the same | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
psychological impact and emotional impact. The Americans get over it | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
much more quickly. Mobility is built into the structure of the | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
economy, less homeownership, and they move much more flexibly. | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
Literally, I said on the film, they can turn on a sixpence. Within six | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
months, we were fully adjusted in the United States. It is still | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
taking us three to four years on time to adjust in the European | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
economy. Are the people that you employ here in Britain, that you | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
would like to fire, but can't? is less so to be fair a British | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
issue. It is more a French, Italian and Spanish issue. Let me give you | :10:22. | :10:30. | |
an example. In France one of our CFOs stole 25,000 euros from us. We | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
took - he admitted the crime. He hired a lawyer after he had been | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
dismissed, took us to court and won in court. You can't run - the judge | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
said it wasn't a bad crime. We asked the judge what constitutes a | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
good crime, or a bad crime? So three years after a lot of struggle | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
in the courts we won on appeal. That labour market inflexibility is | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
a serious issue. We in the West have to understand there has been a | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
shift in the balance of power economically. We have to decide | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
whether that is something we are willing to tolerate or not. If we | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
are not prepared to tolerate it, we have to change the structure to | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
make it easier for companies to adjust their structure. One final | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
point: If the British economy is flat, there are parts of it that | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
are growing and parts that are declining. We have to get into the | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
habit of trying to shift resources, whether it be labour or capital or | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
whatever, into those parts that are growing. The final, final point is | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
that small, what Beecroft was on about, if you read the report - and | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
I have read sections of it - was about helping small companies. They | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
are the engines of growth. It is not so much the big companies. The | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
SMEs are the companies that you have to stimulate to grow. They | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
wanted to get rid of the red tape. There is a crisis of social | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
democracy across Europe when it comes to unemployment? We have 16 | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
million people unemployed in the eurozone. Young people can't get | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
jobs. 52% unemployed, 18-year-olds in Spain. We treat labour, | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
particularly in Europe, as highly- regulated and highly-taxed, so | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
people don't get jobs? We are different to the rest of Europe. | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
I'm with Comrade Cable on this. When I was doing Vince's job, when | :12:16. | :12:23. | |
I was doing his job, I met people like Martin. I spent half my time | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
with businesses telling me to deregulate and half my time with | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
businesses telling me to regulate because they felt there was a | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
competitive advantage. On this particular issue, you are right, | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
unemployment is a big issue. The thought that after all that we have | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
been through with the banking crisis, the problem in our economy, | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
which is a lack of demand, that the answer is to fire at will. First of | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
all, I want to know why a venture capitalist, who is a major donor to | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
the Conservative Party is drawing up their policys? It is like us | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
asking Bob Crow to do a report for us on the railways! That is bizarre. | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
Secondly, if Cameron has decided to bury this, he is right. What | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
Cameron and Osborne were trying to do - they were the ones who | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
proposed every worker had the right to request flexible working. We had | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
introduced it for parents of children up to age six and disabled | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
children up to 18. I remember an article by George Osborne, "We are | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
now the progressive party." It militated against that. Cable's | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
right. I have not met a single - I have met business people like | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
Martin, who is a great advert for British business, saying we need a | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
flexible labour market - and we do. The Beecroft proposal - this is the | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
big issue. The Beecroft proposal to fire anyone, which he himself says | :13:45. | :13:54. | |
could mean some employers firing What would do you about the TUPE | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
stuff? It's different stuff. You say about advertising. It's part of | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
the Beecroft... TUPE was introduced specifically to prebgt those groups | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
of workers like cleaners in organisations who were farmed out | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
to a private company. These are the most defenceless vulnerable workers | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
in the market. You get some kind of protection. Let me bring Michael in. | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
I agreed with Martin who I thought made his case in a very moderate | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
way. He didn't advocate the firing at will. But a couple of things | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
that he did raise, I think it is extraordinary that these preserve | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
rights apply in the case of the advertising agencies, that seems | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
bizarre. You quoted a French case about Tribunals but the British | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
cases of Tribunals seem to be absolutely bad enough, which is | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
that an employee who has been dismissed can tie up the employer | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
in years of litigation with immense legal costs, unbelievably | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
disproportionate settlements at the end and it seems that there is an | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
area where you might say look, if you are going to get rid of an | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
employee it's going to cost you some money, but at least you get a | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
guarantee if you are you are willing to pay that it doesn't take | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
to you a Tribunal and that gets tieed up with lawyers for years. | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
What is wrong with no-fault dismissal. It's too crude and it's | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
too heartless. What change would you make? I think the changes that | :15:15. | :15:24. | |
I make is, I probably at the end of the day in terms of of retkupbdancy | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
payments be less fixed, liberal and give as a result more flexibility | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
in the structure. The problem is this, if you are thinking about the | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
allocation of resources between say western Europe, the United States, | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
Asia, Latin America, you are naturally drawn to those higher | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
tkproet -- growth where ares where the risk-reward ratio is more | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
balanced. I can't find a client that it really wants to increase | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
their capacity in western Europe. UK is slightly different, I take | :15:57. | :16:06. | |
Alan's point. It is more flexible. Our labour taxes are not nearly as | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
high. When we - we pay 1.2 billion dollars a year in social taxes, 800 | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
million by the company. That's still low by French and German | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
standards. The highest per head is France, actually at 45,000. The low | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
ses China at 4,000 which gives you an idea of where it's going to go. | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
It's going to even out over time. The UK is better, you are right, | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
the consultation processes put a rigidity in the process that makes | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
it difficult and you are naturally concerned about the risks and the | :16:38. | :16:44. | |
risks of incrossing capacity. I can't find a CEO or CMO who doesn't | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
want to expand on the other hand in Asia and Latin America and the | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
phaoes. If we want to stimulate growth we have to change the | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
mindset a bit. Coming back, one of the things you didn't include in | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
the film, I was asked what is the one thing the government can do? | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
It's scandalous, youth unemployment is scandalous because if the | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
general rate in unemployment is 8- 9%, it's double in terms of youth. | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
What we have to do is steupl lit - I was -- stimulate. We should | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
subsidise youth employment. National insurance... That's what I | :17:17. | :17:24. | |
mentioned. That's what Lagarde was suggesting. It may be right, it may | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
be wrong to make the supply of labour more efficient, the real | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
reason this economy is not grow something nothing to do with supply, | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
there's no demand. That's the real problem. Not Beecroft. That's the | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
real problem. I entirely agree. However, within whatever situation | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
you have got employers are going to be more or less willing to take | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
people on and I perfectly understand that you would be | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
frightened of taking people on if you thought that if toud let them | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
go in six months, let's say a year, they were going to tie you | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
newspaper a a Tribunal. That's where I agree with Vince Cable. He | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
said that what we need is a plan. What we got from the coalition | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
government is addressing the rate of increase in spending but we | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
haven't got a consistent plan that lifts people's eyes and Hearts and | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
eyes to the horizon, rather than looking at their boots. We need a | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
plan. We haven't got it. Thank you very much. | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
It's late in the day. Michael and Alan may be our own double dip | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
recession but this is no time for faint Hearts or plan Bs. We are | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
sticking with plan A and discussing addiction with Kerry Katona. For | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
those of whou can't get enough of This Week you can get your fix on | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
the Twitter or the interweb and new at a new rip-off price the brand | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
new the Fleecebook. Olympic fever is owe pigsly here -- | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
officially here. The flame has been touring all over British soil this | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
week and the time has come to throw all the rules about BBC | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
impartiality to the wind and make it career on this show we are | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
backing Spain for gold. Have you been messing around with the - have | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
you changed the autocue! Never mind, I apologise. We called in our own | :19:13. | :19:20. | |
own sporting hero. The Surrey under-16 egg and spoon champion of | :19:20. | :19:30. | |
:19:30. | :19:30. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 40 seconds | :19:30. | :20:10. | |
1983, tpheubg Watt for his roundup You know, it's quite an effort | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
keeping alive the flame. It feels sometimes like you are going around | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
in circles. David Cameron felt a bit like that this week when he | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
went to three sum mitts in just one week. We need decisive plans to | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
help get the European economies moving. If we are not going to keep | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
coming back to meetings like this we need to deal with longer term | :20:35. | :20:43. | |
issues at the heart of running a skaesful -- successful single | :20:43. | :20:51. | |
currency. His deputy, Nick Clegg, who keeps alive the flame of | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
European Union sympathied with those leaders when he said we are | :20:55. | :21:02. | |
all in it together and we all have to help the euro. No one should | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
labour under the false hope that somehow Greece leaving the eurozone | :21:09. | :21:19. | |
:21:19. | :21:30. | ||
can provide instant relief to the Now that the torch has arrived, the | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
eyes of the world oren Britain. Yes, the IMF pitched up in town this | :21:34. | :21:43. | |
week for our annual economic health check. When I think back myself of | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
May 2010 when the UK deficit was at 11% and I try to imagine what the | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
situation would be like today if no such fiscal consolidation programme | :21:53. | :22:02. | |
had been decided. I shiver. George glowed when Christine gave him that | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
vote of confidence. But Ed Balls said that the Queen of the IMF had | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
awarded the Chancellor a wooden spoon after warning that Britain | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
may have to draw up a plan B involving tax cuts to revive the | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
economy. We have a recession made in Downing | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
Street, the IMF has been saying for months it's not working, change | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
course. Now is the time to change course. | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
Since packing away his Bullingdon tales, David Cameron has thought of | :22:28. | :22:35. | |
himself as a gentleman prime Minister who relaxes by beating the | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
skaf clegger-tennis machine and playing the odd game of Fruit Ninja | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
on his iPad. But he broke a Cardinal rule this week. He allowed | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
a swot from a minor Oxford college to get under his skin. If we | :22:52. | :23:02. | |
:23:02. | :23:03. | ||
listened to the muttering idiot sitting opposite me... The prime | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
Minister will please wrau the word "it kwrot" -- idiot. In fact, there | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
was a grating prime Minister's questions all round. | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
Can the prime Minister tell us what impression he thinks it gives about | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
his government that he commissions advice from a multimillionaire who | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
recommends making it easier to sack people on low pay, at the same time | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
as giving people like him tens of thousands of pounds in a | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
millionaires tax cut? I tell whau we would do on this side of the | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
House. We commission a report, we accept the bits we agree with, | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
reject the bits we don't agree with. He takes instructions from his | :23:44. | :23:54. | |
:23:54. | :24:02. | ||
trade union pay Masters and cannot Yes, there was some extraordinary | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
competitors on the track, people we hadn't heard of until a few weeks | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
ago and one goody-two-shoes who thought the Olympics would be yet | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
another step on his glorious ride to the top. Yes, our Olympics | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
Minister Jeremy Hunt probably watched with care aeuz his former | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
special advisor Adam Smith gave evidence to the Leveson Inquiry. Up | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
too was the supersmooth Fred Michel, the lobbyist whose e-mails with | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
Adam Smith proved perhaps a little too cosy. Is this the case, you | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
believe that actually this is a communication with the Secretary of | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
State through the mouth of Mr Smith? I believe that whatever Mr | :24:45. | :24:55. | |
:24:55. | :24:56. | ||
Smith tells me represents the view of the Secretary of State, yeah. | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
Yes, the end is nearly in sight, yes! Thank you, thank you. | :25:01. | :25:09. | |
Congratulations. What a great win. Oh, no! | :25:09. | :25:19. | |
:25:19. | :25:25. | ||
The flame's got out. Quick! And a big thanks for Nick's fellow | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
owe Olympicens. We are joined by pheur and tka Green -- pheur and | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
tka Green. -- Miranda. It's a terrible background horror. Alexis | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
Tsipras should be a natural for your sofa with his no tie approach | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
to showing that he is a new breed of politician who is not going to | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
take lessons from the rest of Europe on how Greece should run | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
itself. It's very worrying. Then you can do without the money. | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
It's a relent last backdrop and the failure to resolve it one way or | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
the other is a drag on every economy in the continent and even | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
Mr Obama is worried that it's a drag on the ufrplt S economy. | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
not just the same. Things are getting worse all the time. Thure | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
is falling now, mark he is are -- markets are being hit across Europe. | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
The likelihood of Greece going out increases every day. The fear of a | :26:18. | :26:26. | |
run on the banks is onmipresent and everybody is talking nonsense and | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
double Dutch. Christine Lagarde is kind of saying on the one hand it's | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
very good that we embarked on the austerity programme. On the other | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
hand we have to do something about growth. The prime Minister who | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
believes in austerity is advocating growth for everybody else. He is | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
telling the Germans they should be issuing euro bonds. That is a load | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
of nonsense, that really is... never going to happen. That's the | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
way to perdition in a hurry. It is getting worse, the nations of | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
Europe are deeply divided and lots of them are saying different things | :26:57. | :27:04. | |
on different days of the week. Mrs Merkel bluffing when it comes | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
to Greek exit or do you think the Germans are prepared to let them | :27:07. | :27:17. | |
go? What's going on is a bit of, sort of prop prop -- propoganda - I | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
watched Michael's programme do you want the euro or the drachma, it | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
didn't whether they were unemployed or millionaires, they wanted the | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
euro. There is a bit of positioning. They had this conference in the | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
week, do you remember, European Union Ministers, about contingency | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
plans for gross coming out of -- Greece coming out of the euro. A | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
lot of that is about getting the message to the Greek people... | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
use an overused word this week it would be bonkers not to have | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
contingency plans. I would have think would you have been so public | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
about announcing you are preparing contingency plans unless you wanted | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
to get a message across. Germans are at the end of their | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
tether. They've had it with Greece. When Mr Clegg says no rarbgsal | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
person -- rational person can want Greece to leave, what does he mean? | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
Is he saying you are bonkers if you want Greece to leave? Whether | :28:12. | :28:22. | |
:28:22. | :28:22. | ||
Greece should leave or stay is a fine judgment and neither argument | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
for or against is bonkers. I think what he was trying to do was a | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
Christine Lagarde, you know, you played the clip of her saying she | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
shivers if she thinks what would have happened out an austerity | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
programme. What Clegg was trying to say was anyone who thinks for their | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
own political reasons and because of their own political | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
preoccupations the demise of the sure a good thing that they should | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
cheer... It was Greece, Greece can leave the euro and the euro can | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
survive. Sure. That's a different issue. Sure, but what he was trying | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
to say was that, as Michael pointed out, this toelt disaster on our -- | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
total disaster with our largest trading partner is really, really | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
bad for the UK economy. It's quite right that people have been | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
pointing out today that problems in our own construction sector, as you | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
have been saying, a lot to do with demand here, but nevertheless, | :29:09. | :29:18. | |
these cataclysmic events will have If you have the Prime Minister | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
saying it is time the eurozone should make up or break up, when | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
you have Mr Clegg saying no rational personal can talk about | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
break-up, I would call that friction? I don't think that is | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
right. The entire coalition is in favour of the euro surviving with | :29:39. | :29:49. | |
all its members. I find that a curious position. You think Mr | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
Cameron still thinks that all the stops should be pulled out to keep | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
Greece in the eurozone? That is not what he says. That is what he is | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
saying. When did he say that? said they have to make up or break- | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
up. That is a description of the situation. You disagree with that. | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
That is what he is saying. If one member falls out the eurozone, | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
there is a break in the eurozone. It is the exposure of UK banks to | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
Greece. Yeah. UK banks are not exposed to Greece, they are not. It | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
is a small amount, about six billion. Very small. They are much | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
more exposed to Spain. I understand people being frightened about | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
Greece coming out. If people in Portugal and Greece start demanding | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
they take their money out of the banks, we will be in terrible | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
trouble. It seems to me the Greeks have a much better chance of being | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
out and the euro has a better chance of the Greeks being out. If | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
only we could get ourselfs from here to there. Nobody know what is | :30:53. | :31:01. | |
the knock on cost also be in terms of GDP hit. The country that has a | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
lot to worry about is France. It's got huge exposure to the Club Med | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
companies. Let's move back to the domestic front and Leveson. How | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
damaging is it for the Prime Minister that he removes Vince | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
Cable from the BSkyB process because he's clearly biased against | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
the takeover and replaces him with Mr Hunt who is clearly biased in | :31:27. | :31:34. | |
favour of the takeover? It is pretty bad. I think this constant | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
drip-drip from Leveson is very serious in terms of not just the | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
Prime Minister's judgment, but also there is this question of character | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
which is fundamental in politics. I think those who dismiss this whole | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
Leveson Inquiry as a SW1 Westminster story are missing the | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
point. A lot of people say to me, it is you, you are obsessed with it. | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
Of course. There is a recession on. I don't dismiss it. I don't think | :32:01. | :32:11. | |
:32:11. | :32:12. | ||
this is a killer fact. I think any minister is entitled to express his | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
opinion whilst he is in Cabinet. Once Jeremy Hunt had been appointed | :32:17. | :32:25. | |
after he had expressed that opinion, did he behave in a quasi-judicial | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
way? The special adviser didn't. That is the difficulty. The special | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
adviser was not acting in that way. It is inconceivable that a special | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
adviser, who is appointed almost as your friend - they are... Your | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
extra limb. Your special adviser can be doing all of that without | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
you being aware of it? Smith seems to have got away quite lightly | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
today. He is back on tomorrow. there is a second stage of it. This | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
is where Hunt... It is drip-drip rather than the killer facts so far. | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
Will Mr Hunt survive, "yes" or "no"? He will have to be moved from | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
his present position because Leveson will report and he can't | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
report to him. Will he? He should not survive. Cameron should be more | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
ruthless with his friends. No, he won't survive. Sorry Mr Hunt. Mr | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
Cameron's temper. Downing Street says it shows he is human. Does it? | :33:21. | :33:27. | |
Is it a problem? I think it's unwise of him to let go like that. | :33:27. | :33:37. | |
:33:37. | :33:37. | ||
I think he has a bit of a flair for emanyty, particularly at PMQs -- | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
emnity, particularly at PMQs. Look at the way he insulted Nadine Doris. | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
She is a particular issue. We can't see it when we do PMQs live every | :33:51. | :34:01. | |
Wednesday. I am told that Ed Balls is a constant niggle? For Blair, | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
Blair had John Bercow. On the frontbench, they are always there | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
to try and put you off. They are always doing things like that. | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
Perhaps this passes as light- hearted wit, but it doesn't come | :34:15. | :34:25. | |
:34:25. | :34:26. | ||
over well to the public. David Cameron's lack of statesmanship in | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
those circumstances doesn't go down well with the public. He has a | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
talent for scorn. The benches behind him love it. All right. | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
Let's go on to the real question of the week. Is it true you have | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
ambitions to be London Mayor? You don't? No. But don't rule | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
anything out. My allegiance is to Hull. You will - you have to stand | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
down as MP before the next election to run for Mayor? I would think so. | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
You thinking about it? No. I thought about it last time. I had | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
just been elected. We told you there had been a Johnson running? | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
You did. You are tempted? No, you don't rule anything out. I don't | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
know what the situation will be in 2016. You heard it here first. | :35:14. | :35:24. | |
:35:24. | :35:33. | ||
LAUGHTER Very interesting. Now, we know how hard it is to kick | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
a bad habit here on This Week. Whether it's jacking-up on Alan | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
Johnson, or mainlining Michael Portillo, our conversational drugs | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
of choice are not big, or clever. But with the Work and Pensions | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
Secretary giving Jobcentres the power to cut welfare benefits to | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
alcoholics and drug addicts in the hope they'll enroll on treatment | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
programmes, we have to wonder who's been smoking the whacky-backy and | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
whether we need to stage an intervention on Iain Duncan Smith's | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
behalf? That's why we've decided to put addiction in this week's | :35:55. | :36:05. | |
:36:05. | :36:05. | ||
Spotlight. The Festival season is about to | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
kick-off and figures show party people are turning to austerity | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
drugs such as horse tranquillisers to make the muddy fields more | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
manageable. Politicians have been gathering advice from former users | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
on how best to tackle Britain's addiction problem. For me what's | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
more significant is the way that we socially regard the condition of | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
addiction. It is something that I consider to be an illness and | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
therefore more a health matter than a criminal or judicial matter. | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
how can Government convince alcoholics and drug addicts finally | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
to kick the habit? Iain Duncan Smith thinks the welfare system | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
could play a role and taking away benefits may do the trick. Is it | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
realistic to think that those with the dependency problem will respond | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
to the stick rather than the carrot? | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
The doctor said to me, for depression go to the gym, exercise. | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
My exercise was a few lines of cocaine and a kebab! I wonder if | :37:09. | :37:17. | |
Kerrie has her doubts. Kerrie joins us now. Welcome. | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
you. Tell me, when it comes, given what you have been through, when it | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
comes to drugs, alcohol, and so on, do you ever get the impression that | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
politicians don't have a clue? feel from my personal experience | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
that politicians in a certain way look down at addiction and | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
alcoholism. It's something they kind of want to hide or brush under | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
the carpet rather thanksgiving out a helping hand. No-one wants to | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
deal with the fact that people have problems. And what do you think is | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
the best strategy? Is it carrot or stick? I definitely think you need | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
to give them a helping hand. I don't think by telling them - you | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
can't receive your benefits, it is either your benefits or drugs. That | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
won't work. Addiction is an addiction. People don't wake up | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
going, "Today, I want to be a drug addict." These things happen for a | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
reason. There is a story behind it. I think it should be encouraged by | :38:16. | :38:23. | |
helping them and encouraging them to go to rehab, and working away at | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
how to get them off the addiction. These people who take drugs, as I | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
did, I had low self-esteem, I was in four walls, cocaine was my only | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
friend. I was embarrassed by being on drugs. I had no-one else to turn | :38:40. | :38:48. | |
to. Cocaine was my only friend. think saying if you carry on like | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
this, we will take away your benefits, that would encourage you | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
to get treatment? I think, if someone said that to me and I was | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
in a situation of going through bankruptcy, I had four kids to feed | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
as well, being dictated to like that, as addiction, it can't be | :39:06. | :39:13. | |
right, OK, I will stop. If that was the case, everyone would stop. This | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
can encourage crime. Some parents have got nothing, they have | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
children to feed - prostitution, theft. It can go crazy. You can see | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
why people get upset, you are getting welfare benefits, the rest | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
the tax papers are paying and a lot of it goes on drugs. I don't quite | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
see withdrawing these benefits means you are waking up to your | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
circumstances? Kerrie wants the Government to offer help. -- Kerry | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
wants the Government to offer help. If people are refusing the basic | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
things to help themselves, why should we go on subsidising them? | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
What is the treatment you will be offering them? The treatments that | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
are available that the Government does offer. It says here is | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
rehabilitation, here are courses. If you refuse to take them, we | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
won't go on paying your benefit. This point about if they don't get | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
the benefit, they will go stealing. I don't think benefits we paid, | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
they won't pay for your cocaine habit. I understand all that. There | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
is a story... Benefits are not designed to pay for the cocaine | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
habit either. I know. A lot of the people on benefits, it is not they | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
have decided to be an addict, they are under pressure because of loss | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
of jobs... This is adding more pressure to go on the treatment. | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
These arguments seem to go round in circles through the generations | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
when it comes to a political response to drug addiction and | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
treatment. I wouldn't discount anything Iain Duncan Smith said out | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
of hand. I think he genuinely cares... He thinks about these | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
things. He does. My experience was, the most effective scheme I saw for | :40:56. | :41:03. | |
drug addicts - it is a different issue about alcoholism - was we | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
started to prescribe, the Government gave them heroin, | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
reduced the amounts - they had to agree to come on this programme - | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
reduced the amounts gradually, encompass that with a lot of help | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
and support, had an employer at the end of it that would give them a | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
job and it had amazing results. A bad headline, Government | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
prescribing drugs, but it has to have that all-round approach. | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
Michael's - it is crude to say that you just take the benefit away. The | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
next step is what? The next step is they could be in prison. They will | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
get more drugs than ever in prison! And they are probably cheaper. Did | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
it take a while for your treatment to work? What treatment did work? | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
spent - I must have spent �100,000 going to rehab, or doing a course. | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
These were private clinics which most people wouldn't have the money | :42:02. | :42:10. | |
for? That didn't work. I went to the Priory, to Arizona, I came out | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
a stone heavier with prescription medication, which was masking my | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
problem. The only thing that worked for me was I went to bootcamp in | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
2010 which was military-based exercise for six hours a day, | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
eating healthily for two weeks and I was in bankruptcy, I was getting | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
divorced, I lost my house, I had a cocaine addiction, I was drinking, | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
I almost lost my four children. Those two weeks of pure exercise | :42:38. | :42:48. | |
:42:48. | :42:48. | ||
for me with blood, sweat and tears, at the end of them two weeks, the | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
endorphines was the first natural high I... Is everything good now? | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
have to get up and do the school run! You don't have to deal with | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
these two every week. I'm glad I'm going. Thank you for being with us. | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
That's your lot for tonight, folks. But not for us because it's Social | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
Mobility Night at Annabel's and Nick Clegg's demonstrated his | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
noblesse oblige, by sticking us all on the paying guest-list. Kerry's | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
agreed to be Michael's plus-one and Michael's agreed to let the | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
bouncers frisk him - twice. But we leave tonight with a man | :43:22. | :43:25. |