10/01/2013 This Week


10/01/2013

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The stars are are out. Join us for Political Stargazing Live.

:00:19.:00:22.

On planet Westminster, the Prime Minister and his deputy return to

:00:22.:00:28.

work. The Daly Mail's, Quentin Letts, studies a galaxy of

:00:28.:00:33.

coalition claims. Earth to coalition. The Government

:00:33.:00:37.

is in mid-term and it is time to apply the rocket boosters. We will

:00:37.:00:42.

be calling them direct from our stewed studio. Join us later for

:00:43.:00:46.

the great link up! The Government is worrying about

:00:46.:00:53.

the cost of benefits and feeling the -- filling the deficit black

:00:53.:01:01.

hole. Janet Street Porter has gone into orbit.

:01:01.:01:11.

As the PM accuses UKIP members of being space objects, we look at the

:01:11.:01:14.

creatures from the political universe.

:01:14.:01:19.

Well, Andrew don't hop into your space suit too quickly. You are so

:01:19.:01:28.

normal, you are almost a freak! Look up in the sky, we can see

:01:28.:01:34.

Uranus. Oh, evening all. We can to This

:01:34.:01:42.

Week. Our first offering of the New Year and as I fight back the non-

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existent tears, I I can't believe I am saying these words - this is our

:01:47.:01:51.

tenth anniversary show. The clue is in the balloon. Yes, our tenth

:01:51.:02:01.

anniversary show. Filling the cultural void between David Bowie

:02:01.:02:04.

albums. Baffling to anyone who pays the licence fee, which includes

:02:05.:02:14.
:02:15.:02:20.

some of you watching, it is a decade since the yen the Yentobs

:02:20.:02:27.

decided that it was bliss. With the name of This Week, the product of

:02:27.:02:30.

multiple focus groups and away weeks in the Maldives. So fuelled

:02:30.:02:39.

by a diet of of cheap German wine and and cheap shot at our political

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masters, it wasn't long before we were ignored by viewers the length

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and breadth of the nation and the lack of luxuriesries like a descent

:02:52.:03:00.

set, a descent presenter, we managed to funnel enough money to

:03:00.:03:10.
:03:10.:03:10.

where it really mattered, Diane Abbott's private school fees. I am

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joined on the stained ten-year-old sofa by two men who do what it says

:03:15.:03:25.
:03:25.:03:26.

on the tin! Think of them as the Heinz tomato soup. I speak of

:03:26.:03:36.
:03:36.:03:43.

hashtag man on the left and sad man That's the programme budget gone in

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one blast! Michael, your moment of the week? Mr Barroso, a what is one

:03:52.:03:57.

of two men who claim to be president of Europe. He claimed the

:03:57.:04:03.

your owe is now safe. -- euro is safe. It is unwise of politicians

:04:03.:04:06.

to predict what will happen to currencies because markets have a

:04:06.:04:10.

way of undoing their best intentions, but I thought it would

:04:10.:04:14.

be of a consolation to know that the euro is out of the woods for

:04:14.:04:18.

those 27% of Greeks who are now unemployed. Greece today over took

:04:18.:04:23.

Spain in the number of unemployed, 56% of their youth are unemployed,

:04:23.:04:31.

15% of the youth in Spain are unemployed, but it is good to know

:04:31.:04:39.

that for the idealist that the European currency is safe.

:04:39.:04:46.

Your moment of the week? My moment of the week is a footballer playing

:04:46.:04:50.

for AC Milan in a friendly. A big section of the crowd were hurling

:04:50.:04:54.

racial abuse at him. Nice people. He kicked the ball into the crowd.

:04:54.:04:58.

Took his shirt off and walked off the pitch. That happened a couple

:04:58.:05:02.

of times before. What was unique, the rest of the team followed him

:05:02.:05:10.

and half the stadium applauded them off. It was, I think think, a great

:05:10.:05:19.

moment, Seb Sepp Blatter said, "You shouldn't runaway. What that player

:05:20.:05:24.

has done is more than Sepp Blatter has done in a hole career.

:05:24.:05:28.

It was interesting that the crowd applauded. And the team walked.

:05:28.:05:33.

And the team walked with them. was only a friendly.

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Now, the coalition says cutting the deficit means hard choices and

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tough decisions including cutting the benefits to the needyest and I

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say quite right, there are more important things to spend our tax

:05:45.:05:52.

money, take example the railways minister, Simon Burns. He is

:05:52.:05:57.

responsible support above inflation price rises. He commutes from his

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home in Essex using his chauffeur driven car an an rather than using

:06:05.:06:12.

the cramp trains and it only costs �85,000 a year. It does make it

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harder to convince well off pensioners for example, of which

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there are many these days, to give up their benefits benefits without

:06:20.:06:26.

a fight at the next election. We asked Janet Street Porter to give

:06:26.:06:36.
:06:36.:06:45.

us her bus pass, but she gave us I am a pensioner and a working one

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at that. For a long with millions of over 60s like me up and down the

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country, I am enjoying the benefits of old age. A pension, winter fuel

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allowance, a Freedom Pass for the buses and trains and most of all,

:07:01.:07:11.
:07:11.:07:13.

my senior rail card and so I bloody well should.

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I have worked hard all my life. I am a striver. Not a shirker. So why

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shouldn't I enjoy a fuel State funded benefits in the autumn of my

:07:23.:07:28.

years? After all, I've paid for them. Now in the week when the

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Government decided to scrap child benefit for the richest 15% in the

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country, it seems they might have pensioners in their sights next. It

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is said that after the next election, they are talking of

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taking away some of our benefits. The Government seem to be listening

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to critics who think that wealthy pensioners should give up some of

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the benefits and even possible bli be means-tested, well you do so at

:07:58.:08:08.
:08:08.:08:10.

Politicians so far have shied away from targeting older people and

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with very good reason. We are, the most politically engaged group. We

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are the people that put them in power in the first place. It seems

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to me pathetically unfair to take away our meagre few benefits. We

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have got no guarantee that they will be put to any good use. They

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will just disappear into that big black hole that is called our

:08:29.:08:39.
:08:39.:08:41.

deficit. Now, Mr Cameron is only one way

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that you can persuade me and millions of people like me to give

:08:45.:08:53.

up this and that is to ring-fence, to completely ring-fence any money

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that you save by taking away our benefits and give that money

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directly to worthy causes like more apprenticeships for school leavers.

:09:02.:09:06.

What most people want are practical policies that will make a real

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difference. They are not interested in which party is in or which party

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is out. They want a fair Government. One that comes up with policies

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that will help us all, not just to score political points.

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But the best thing that politicians could do, you want my honest

:09:26.:09:36.
:09:36.:09:39.

opinion, leave us pensioners and Janet Street Porter from Waterloo

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Station to our little station on the the other side of the river in

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Westminster. Welcome to This Week. Michael and Alan, let's get

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straight to basics, should the pensioner benefits be protected?

:09:54.:09:57.

think the Government would be ill adviced to change it. I don't think

:09:57.:10:01.

it is morally justified to give money to pensioners who don't need

:10:01.:10:05.

it, but it is complicated to means- test things. It would be

:10:05.:10:08.

misunderstood and lots of pensioners would think they will be

:10:08.:10:14.

affected and and it will cause le sentiment and -- resentment and it

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won't be spent any better anywhere. Alan? I always saw the child

:10:21.:10:24.

benefit change as perhaps leading to a change elsewhere which is why

:10:24.:10:28.

I was worried about it. I will give you a suggestion for what we should

:10:29.:10:31.

do because another generation are going to retire later. They are

:10:31.:10:37.

going to get their State pension later and yet, still, when you hit

:10:37.:10:41.

the magic age of 65, you stop paying national insurance. Now if

:10:42.:10:46.

pensioners are going to work longer, there is an argument they should

:10:46.:10:48.

continue to pay national insurance and that might abcontribution,

:10:48.:10:52.

rather than attacking universal benefits.

:10:52.:10:58.

You think they should stay? Yes. This is good, the three of you

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saying the same thing. I am going to have to fight hard. I don't mind

:11:03.:11:09.

giving up some of my perks. I don't mind if politicians good afternoon

:11:10.:11:13.

guarantee that the money will be ring-fenced and go to deserving

:11:13.:11:18.

causes and not swallowed up. We can say we would be prepared to pay

:11:18.:11:23.

higher tax and higher VAT. Let's stick with the principle. Nour you

:11:23.:11:26.

are a wealthy -- now, you are a wealthy striver. These are tough

:11:26.:11:30.

times. And people on lower incomes than yours are hurting. Isn't it

:11:30.:11:34.

lewdious that the State should be using tax money to give awe free

:11:34.:11:40.

bus pass or winter fuel allowance? If you take away our winter fuel

:11:40.:11:43.

allowance that's going to be over 1% of the total welfare budget. It

:11:43.:11:48.

is a drop in the ocean. Look at, why is it that pensioners have

:11:48.:11:53.

become a big problem? The P word, isn't it? Pensioners are a problem.

:11:53.:11:57.

We sit in care homes. We use up the National Health Service, but look

:11:57.:12:02.

at it another away. If you are a politician, you can't afford to

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lose pensioners. We are the only people that vote for you of the the

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political parties have not managed to attract younger voters or

:12:10.:12:12.

middle-aged voters. Sure, but that's politicians

:12:12.:12:17.

running in fear of a powerful lobby which the Americans call the Great

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Pan that. -- Great panther. You could do any of these and it

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wouldn't make a difference to the quality of your life? What about

:12:27.:12:32.

Iain Duncan Smith saying... don't need a winter fuel allowance?

:12:32.:12:38.

Talk about pensioners overall. Why should I be means-tested? Means-

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testing is impossible to implement and will cost more than it would

:12:41.:12:49.

raise. Why don't you you consider that pensioners are an asset. They

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are an asset. They are not using the police force or breaking the

:12:52.:12:56.

law. They are not committing crimes. Why is it demonising a pensioner,

:12:56.:13:00.

to say that a wealthy person like yourself does not need the winter

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fuel allowance? I have paid more than my fair share of tax. I am not

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like the captains of industry moving my tax affairs overseas. My

:13:09.:13:13.

tax affairs are transparent and so I would believe are 99% of the

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pensioners in this country. They feel they have spent their life

:13:17.:13:21.

since leaving school, working, paying tax, paying national

:13:21.:13:26.

insurance, and we've paid in. And for for Iain Duncan Smith to say

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yesterday that pensioners in the future need to have more savings.

:13:29.:13:39.
:13:39.:13:41.

We are the only people saving. We It's clear that David Cameron isn't

:13:41.:13:46.

going to do anything about it this side of the election. Do you think

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he'll be under pressure to do something about it the other side

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of the election? Isn't this going to be an issue? The crucial time is

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the election itself. Until now, all leaders have always said these

:14:02.:14:06.

things are entirely off limits that they'll not be touched. The great

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danger is if David Cameron decides to say no, this time I'm not giving

:14:11.:14:17.

that guarantee... Which was bounced into by Gordon Brown in the TV

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debate wasn't he? Then Labour will run stories that if the benefits

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are not guaranteeed that could mean that nearly everybody will lose

:14:24.:14:27.

their winter fuel allowance and that nearly everybody will lose

:14:27.:14:31.

their free bus pass. This will enable the Labour Party to run the

:14:31.:14:35.

most momentous... Would you exploit it? There's no chance Labour would

:14:35.:14:39.

want to go down this road as well? Is Labour comfortable with someone

:14:39.:14:44.

who lives in Marbella getting a winter fuel allowance? It's not

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only pensioners who've been attacked this week, it's child

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benefit that's been taken away, it's children. I'm still attached

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to the principle for some of the reasons Michael mentioned. Taking

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that away will lead to an horrendous mess in terms of how you

:15:00.:15:04.

can late that now. I come back to the pensioners. But what is the

:15:04.:15:08.

fuel allowance there for? It's because the state pension was very

:15:08.:15:14.

low, it's a tax-free lump sum and people now are equating their state

:15:14.:15:18.

pension entitlement as their weekly payment, plus their winter fuel

:15:18.:15:22.

allowance. It's impossible now to separate the two and until you get

:15:22.:15:26.

to a situation, as you will eventually because of changes being

:15:26.:15:31.

made now, occupational pensions now, replace a big chunk of what was

:15:31.:15:37.

previously expected from benefits et cetera, I think a politician

:15:37.:15:40.

changing it would be doing something perilous to their future.

:15:40.:15:44.

Many of these things were introduced as short-term political

:15:44.:15:51.

gimmicks, the fuel allowance was once �50 then �100 now �200.

:15:52.:15:57.

Pensioners' Christmas bonus? �10. And free TV licences. All were

:15:57.:16:03.

introduced I think, or most, by Gordon Brown. Ted Heath did the

:16:03.:16:09.

Christmas bonus. Yes. Gordon Brown as Chancellor or Prime Minister.

:16:09.:16:14.

was to tackle pensioner poverty. to buy votes. Once you have given

:16:14.:16:19.

something out, why take it back? Give than pensioners are loyal

:16:19.:16:26.

voters, I think... A very ungrateful lot. I speak for

:16:26.:16:30.

millions of pensioners who've seen their savings diminish in value and

:16:30.:16:34.

you are saying, save more and by the way after the next election, we

:16:34.:16:37.

might take away the fuel allowance. There's nothing principle about

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this. The politicians are just frightened of the grai vote. Older

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folk vote, they are organised, they've got time on their hands to

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do it. It would be politically disastrous to remove these things

:16:52.:16:56.

entirely for more pensioners. one's suggesting that. No, no, but

:16:56.:16:59.

give than... Are you saying that's how it will be presentd? Give than

:16:59.:17:04.

we accept that, is it worth the Haas toll remove it from very few

:17:04.:17:09.

people which will cost a lot of money and which will risk giving

:17:09.:17:12.

many more pensioners the impression that they are going to lose out, it

:17:12.:17:17.

might be the reality. I would say it's a no-brainer, don't touch it.

:17:17.:17:21.

While we are in the midst of cynicism, there were 2.6 million

:17:21.:17:25.

pensioners living in abject poverty, women who didn't qualify for the

:17:25.:17:34.

state pension. We are talking about how it was originated. The reason

:17:34.:17:38.

why more pensioners go out to work isn't because they are babyboomers

:17:38.:17:43.

and like socialising, it's because financially they have to. We have

:17:43.:17:46.

two categories of people who're working against their will, that's

:17:46.:17:50.

mothers with very young children and pensioners over 65 who'd rather

:17:51.:17:55.

be retiring. They're both doing it because they can't exist on the

:17:55.:18:00.

money that's available. Janet's also introduced an interesting

:18:00.:18:03.

point which is that you reach a point in life where you have paid

:18:04.:18:07.

in and you don't accept means testing because you believe that at

:18:07.:18:13.

some point in your life, you want some pay back. They call old people

:18:13.:18:17.

living treasures in certain places, in this country we are a big

:18:17.:18:19.

problem. Do you think you have intimidated them into doing what

:18:19.:18:24.

you don't want them to do? If I was running Britain, I would look after

:18:24.:18:29.

the national asset, pensioners, at the moment they are demonised.

:18:29.:18:34.

tonight. Thank you for being our first guest of the New Year on our

:18:34.:18:42.

tenth anniversary programme. It's late, very late and Janet's got to

:18:42.:18:46.

catch her night bus back to bingo night at the club. She's always

:18:46.:18:52.

there! For those outside her media circus, stick with us, because

:18:52.:18:57.

waiting in the wings, Amy Le may here to talk about the joys of

:18:57.:19:00.

being different. Since most viewers are weird, you have probably

:19:00.:19:06.

clocked that already. Don't forget, you can express your love for the

:19:06.:19:09.

programme and for Janet in particular on the Twitter,

:19:09.:19:13.

Fleecebook and the interweb. To be a successful politician, you would

:19:13.:19:17.

need to be sauck Cescful communicator, something which

:19:17.:19:23.

passed Michael and Alan by -- successful. Old Cleggover is not

:19:23.:19:27.

content with being the Deputy Prime Minister, he's hosting his own

:19:27.:19:34.

radio phone-in show. I wonder if we could be Deputy Prime Minister for

:19:34.:19:39.

an hour. Not to be outdown by professional cross dressing, we

:19:39.:19:44.

called Quentin Letts for his youndup of the political week --

:19:44.:19:54.
:19:54.:20:05.

round-up of the political week. Good evening, Britain. Alan

:20:05.:20:09.

partridge couldn't be here so you have got me instead to present your

:20:09.:20:15.

phone-in show. The host, with the most.

:20:15.:20:22.

It's late, you're tired but don't get to bed, because it's time for

:20:22.:20:32.
:20:32.:20:33.

call Quentin! Right, time to flip some vinyl pancakes. Hello, we are

:20:33.:20:37.

going to start with a couple who've been in a relationship for some

:20:37.:20:41.

time. This week they've chose tonne renew their vows, a very touching

:20:41.:20:47.

story. One of them is on the line now. Is that Dave from Westminster?

:20:47.:20:53.

Good afternoon. Very nice of you to join us Mr Cameron, do you have Mr

:20:53.:20:57.

Clegg with you? Tell us about your situation. It's a Ron sale deal,

:20:57.:21:03.

does what it says on the tin. We said we'd come together, form a

:21:03.:21:06.

Government, tackle the problems and get on with it in a mature,

:21:06.:21:11.

sensible way. Done as a PR stunt perhaps but tell me, Mr Clegg,

:21:11.:21:17.

would you describe it similarly as a Ronseal deal You could call it

:21:18.:21:22.

the unvarnished truth - I thought it was all right! You are still

:21:22.:21:27.

laughing at each other's jokes, you are in it for the long haul then

:21:27.:21:37.
:21:37.:21:38.

are committed to doing what we have said, doing what it says on the tin.

:21:38.:21:42.

Behind every marriage there can be another story, did Dave and Nick

:21:42.:21:46.

tell us everything? What is the detail behind the detail? We are

:21:46.:21:49.

getting a call here from Ed from Primrose Hill North London. Welcome

:21:49.:21:54.

to the show. What is your point? Can the Prime Minister tell us why

:21:54.:21:59.

on Monday when he published the mid term review, he failed to publish

:21:59.:22:05.

his audit of coalition broken promises? We'll be publishing

:22:05.:22:10.

absolutely every single audit of every single promise, all 399

:22:10.:22:17.

pledges set out in the mid term review. The advisor said they

:22:17.:22:23.

shouldn't publish it because it had problematic area, it would lead to

:22:23.:22:28.

unfavourable copy and lead to unbroken pledges. Not his greatest

:22:29.:22:33.

performance. We'll fade him out. What was that man next to him,

:22:33.:22:40.

Balls, he'll have to go! Another call. Thomas Galloway, Dunlop but

:22:40.:22:45.

rue, Galbraith. I understand we can call you Tom, is that right? Dave

:22:45.:22:50.

from Westminster earlier loves coalitions. What do you make of

:22:50.:22:57.

them? All of us would rather be in a single party Government this was

:22:57.:23:02.

an experiment though in 2010. Some of it has been messy and difficult.

:23:02.:23:06.

But largely it's produce what had we wanted it to do. That that's why

:23:06.:23:12.

you resigned this week. He's gone. It's an Englanding batting collapse

:23:12.:23:19.

with the Lords all gone. You are listening to Call Quentin, the show

:23:19.:23:22.

that matters. Please, please, call, we've got to fill the air time

:23:22.:23:28.

somehow. On to the issue that can decide the next general election.

:23:28.:23:33.

Workers versus shirkers. Ian from Chingford, you are on the line.

:23:33.:23:37.

They spent taxpayers' money like drunks on a Friday night. They are

:23:37.:23:43.

spend more, tax more, borrow more and let the next generation pick up

:23:43.:23:46.

the bill. This bill creates a heck of a mess and asks Britain's

:23:46.:23:53.

working familys to clear it up. a call from somebody we haven't

:23:53.:24:00.

heard from for a very long time. Dave in Primrose Hill as well, how

:24:00.:24:04.

about that! Good to have you back, what do you have to say for

:24:04.:24:09.

yourself? This ransid Bill is not about affordability. It's not. It

:24:09.:24:14.

wreaks of the politics of dividing rhines. They all want a say on this.

:24:14.:24:17.

Caroline from Brighton? A mean and miserable piece of legislation from

:24:17.:24:21.

a mean and miserable Government. shall be voting against the second

:24:21.:24:24.

reading of the Bill today with a heavy heart. That will be a topic

:24:24.:24:32.

we hear more from in the run of this show. Another topic - Europe -

:24:32.:24:38.

Mr Barack Obama from Washington. How's Tyne & Wear? Sorry, it's not

:24:38.:24:43.

Tyne & Wear, it's Washington DC, district of Colombia. How di, how

:24:43.:24:49.

can we help you, what do you think about Europe? We think it's in our

:24:49.:24:55.

interests to see a strong British voice within the EU. This is a

:24:55.:25:00.

response from Dave in SW1, saying that the US wants an outward

:25:00.:25:06.

looking EU with Britain in it and so do we? Speak for yourself, mate!

:25:06.:25:13.

We are nearing the end of the show and I've got a call myself to make.

:25:13.:25:18.

Hello, Nick, good to talk to you. I know I make it look easy but take

:25:18.:25:24.

advice from a phone-in professional like me. What's that, serious calls

:25:24.:25:28.

to make?! Cheeky monkey. Are you a man of the people and have you ever

:25:28.:25:32.

worn a onesy? From your constituency, have you ever ever

:25:32.:25:37.

worn a onesy? I was give an big green onesy in Sheffield which I

:25:37.:25:43.

have kept in its packaging, so I haven't worn it yet but I've got

:25:43.:25:47.

one. That's your lot, folks, it's been a toasty pledge but it's over.

:25:47.:25:52.

To my colleagues in that inferior medium television. Andrew, over to

:25:52.:26:00.

you. Quentin Letts. We are joined by

:26:00.:26:05.

Miranda Green, as we always are at this time. Tell me, Mr Clegg, Mr

:26:05.:26:08.

Cameron, said they were committed to the coalition lasting the full

:26:08.:26:12.

five years. Should we take it for granted that the parties won't go

:26:12.:26:17.

their separate ways some time in 2014? It's a good question isn't it.

:26:17.:26:24.

Five years seemed like a very long time when they negotiated this

:26:24.:26:30.

coalition in 2010. The election has been feeling imminent for quite a

:26:30.:26:34.

while now. It's going to be very difficult,

:26:34.:26:38.

this task, for the second half of the Parliament, to keep the

:26:38.:26:42.

coalition ship on track without fracturing. There is a bit of

:26:42.:26:46.

fracturing on both sides now. It had been worse on the Tory sides, a

:26:46.:26:49.

bit of Liberal Democrat fracturing as well. On the welfare reforms?

:26:49.:26:53.

Which is significant actually. things are still dire for the

:26:53.:26:55.

Liberal Democrats in 2014 and if they have a very bad European

:26:55.:27:00.

election, which is perfectly on the cards, the Tories could have a bad

:27:00.:27:04.

one too, surely there will be irresistible pressure maybe A on

:27:04.:27:07.

the leadership and B, to put some distance between them and the

:27:07.:27:12.

Tories by getting out of Government? I don't think that the

:27:12.:27:17.

European elections will be seen as any sort of make or break test.

:27:17.:27:21.

Even if you come fifth? Well, you know, the UKIP factor is bad for

:27:21.:27:24.

all the established parties, it's not particularly a message to the

:27:24.:27:27.

Liberal Democrats, you know, with the Greens we have seen this

:27:27.:27:31.

European election thing happen before, but I think that the point

:27:31.:27:36.

behind your question is a good one. The pressure is going to increase

:27:36.:27:40.

and obviously one thing they were doing this week is quite rightly

:27:40.:27:44.

saying these are the big challenges facing Britain, we have made a

:27:44.:27:48.

start on these big projects that will take a long time. That has its

:27:48.:27:52.

own challenge because it means you have to talk about projects that

:27:52.:27:56.

last longer than two-and-a-half years sowhat does that mean nor the

:27:56.:28:01.

coalition project. Do you think the coalition will go all the way to

:28:01.:28:05.

2015? I do, partly because they've Leggetted for it an they have to

:28:05.:28:07.

continue the austerity programme for the longest period of time to

:28:07.:28:11.

have the best chance of proving the success, partly because they enjoy

:28:11.:28:15.

being in office and they might as well stay there for as long as they

:28:15.:28:19.

possibly can, but for all of those reasons, they'll go the distance.

:28:19.:28:23.

Because they've Leggetted for it, doesn't mean they can stick

:28:23.:28:26.

together. You could see a situation where the Liberal Democrats

:28:26.:28:31.

withdraw from coalition in 2014, maybe the autumn around the time of

:28:31.:28:35.

the Party Conference which could be rough. But that doesn't provoke an

:28:35.:28:40.

election, the Torys are a minority through to 2015? That is the likely

:28:40.:28:46.

scenario, Andrew. They've Leggetted for a five-year Parliament. Without

:28:46.:28:52.

much debate. Five years, rather than four. So the only way that can

:28:52.:28:55.

change is if something like 80 Liberal Democrats vote with us,

:28:55.:29:00.

that won't happen. They won't go anywhere near the electorate any

:29:00.:29:03.

time before 2015 so I think perhaps withdraw to a confidence and supply

:29:03.:29:08.

arrangement, maybe for the last year, interesting question for me

:29:08.:29:12.

is whether Clegg goes. You couldn't have that under Nick Clegg I don't

:29:12.:29:17.

think, a partial withdrawal. think if that happens it would be a

:29:17.:29:20.

new leader? I don't think that will happen myself but if it were, you

:29:20.:29:27.

couldn't have it happen under Nick Clegg. There is Mr Cable waiting in

:29:28.:29:37.

David Miliband, is he preparing for entry into front-line politics?

:29:37.:29:41.

David just wanted to speak. He wanted to speak in that debate. Now,

:29:41.:29:46.

there is has been speculation... What do you think? He is too big a

:29:46.:29:51.

talent, I think, to stay on the backbenches, but this is a very

:29:51.:29:56.

personal thing. David talks about the Kremlinology. If he came into

:29:57.:30:01.

the Shadow Cabinet, everyone judging everything by how his

:30:01.:30:08.

brother reacts and David's point is it would be bad for the party. He

:30:08.:30:11.

is itching to do something rather than sit on the backbenches.

:30:11.:30:21.

It struck me how uncomfortable international international front

:30:21.:30:28.

front benchers look on the backbenches. He looked

:30:28.:30:31.

uncomfortable, he was feeling nervous about the situation. Should

:30:32.:30:40.

we rule out entirely? Durel durel entirely durel David Miliband as

:30:40.:30:45.

Shadow Chancellor? That's unlikely, but I think we are going to go into

:30:45.:30:49.

the next election with Ed Balls as Shadow Chancellor. There maybe a

:30:49.:30:53.

return to the frontbench, but in what position that would be, I

:30:53.:30:59.

don't know. Even his intervention posed a major

:30:59.:31:05.

challenge to the existing frontbench. He talked about

:31:05.:31:09.

priorities within a reduced ability of the Government to spend and

:31:09.:31:13.

that's a much... He tackled the Clegg point. The Clegg point was

:31:13.:31:18.

how else are you going to pay for this.

:31:19.:31:25.

Mr E Miliband wants to run against a bit of what Labour did last time.

:31:25.:31:30.

He wants to distance himself from some of the things the last Labour

:31:30.:31:33.

Government did that. It is difficult to do that with Mr Balls

:31:33.:31:37.

as his Shadow Chancellor? Ed was a member of the Government as well.

:31:37.:31:41.

If you bring David in, he was a member of the Government as well.

:31:41.:31:47.

He is more prepared to distance himself? This st what you get -- is

:31:47.:31:51.

this is what you get if you are you are looking for re-elected after

:31:51.:31:57.

four years. If you are trying to get after being rejected by the

:31:57.:32:00.

electorate, you are almost bound to face that problem and that's why it

:32:00.:32:05.

is a bigger challenge for Ed and why he is doing so well when you

:32:05.:32:09.

compare him to other leaders of the opposition in that first period

:32:09.:32:11.

after an election defeat. Ed Miliband suffered at the

:32:11.:32:18.

beginning from the idea that he finished off his brother.

:32:18.:32:21.

But to have a number of brothers as Leader of the Opposition and Shadow

:32:21.:32:29.

Chancellor, that goes down badly with the public. He did Latin for a

:32:29.:32:33.

year! Well, I slept under one of those.

:32:33.:32:37.

The English has been a problem, but the Latin stuck!

:32:37.:32:44.

The resignation of Lord Strathclyde and Lord Marilyn, not household

:32:44.:32:47.

names, but the timing was significant, wasn't it? It was

:32:47.:32:52.

incredible. It was designed to cause damage? It is peculiar. I

:32:52.:32:55.

don't equate the two resignations. Strathclyde is the sort of person

:32:55.:32:59.

you miss. The House of Lords needs such careful management. Even

:32:59.:33:04.

without a coalition, even with just one party because Lords are very

:33:04.:33:07.

independent people and lots of them are clever and lots of them have

:33:07.:33:13.

ideas and lots of experience and so you can only cajole them or you can

:33:13.:33:18.

reason with them, you can make them feel guilty that they are they are

:33:18.:33:21.

voting against the Government because you are such a good guy.

:33:21.:33:26.

And people liked him? Strathclyde had those qualities. People didn't

:33:26.:33:30.

like to let him down. He said the coalition had broken

:33:30.:33:33.

down in the Lords already? Well, there has been a lot of rebellions

:33:33.:33:37.

in the Lords before now and I imagine they will go on, but losing

:33:37.:33:43.

one minister, losing two ministers, it doesn't really say a lot again

:33:43.:33:47.

about David Cameron's ability to run his own team. Again on time, we

:33:47.:33:52.

had the State Department coming out saying they want Britain to stay in

:33:52.:33:55.

Europe and effectively saying don't have a referendum. Nothing new

:33:55.:34:01.

about that. That's always been the State Department policy, but timing

:34:01.:34:06.

was interesting. James James Forsyth says Mr Cameron isn't going

:34:06.:34:12.

to say anything to satisfy the real Euro-sceptics and this could now,

:34:12.:34:16.

there is the potential for this to lead to the greatest split in the

:34:16.:34:19.

Tories since the corn laws. Discuss? Well, it is the great eggs

:34:19.:34:25.

split in the cories -- the greastest split in the Tories since

:34:25.:34:29.

the corn laws this. Is a long continuing problem in the Tory

:34:29.:34:33.

Party. As far as the American intervention is concerned, I am not

:34:33.:34:36.

sure myself that it was calculated or planned in the way their

:34:36.:34:40.

implying, but I do think that the Americans actually do not have a

:34:40.:34:43.

strong understanding of the European issue. They don't have a

:34:43.:34:45.

strong understanding of Britain's position on Europe and I am not

:34:45.:34:50.

sure that they understand their own interests. One only has to

:34:50.:34:54.

speculate where America would have stood over Iraq and Afghanistan if

:34:54.:34:58.

there was a single European foreign policy because a single European

:34:58.:35:02.

foreign policy would not have authorised Britain to join in the

:35:02.:35:03.

endeavours alongside American forces.

:35:03.:35:07.

We have to leave it. We will be talking about Europe, Alan. Hold

:35:07.:35:12.

what you have got to say for future weeks. Miran darks thanks -- --

:35:12.:35:21.

Miranda, thank you for being wuss. Wearing a gold me dollian and -- me

:35:21.:35:30.

dal -- medallion and driving a bright sports car is a sign of a

:35:30.:35:40.

crisis. Maybe nijal If UKIP is joining the mainstream, does that

:35:40.:35:43.

mean Britain is becoming a less colourful place? That's why we have

:35:43.:35:49.

decided to embrace those who plough a lonely Pharaoh and put odd people

:35:49.:35:59.
:35:59.:36:03.

From Albert Einstein to a Czech presidential candidate. Everyone

:36:03.:36:08.

knows an eccentric character. With their poll rating soaring, it looks

:36:08.:36:12.

like UKIP can no longer be dismissed as the odd balls of

:36:12.:36:17.

British poll politics. Unless, you are the Prime Minister, of course.

:36:17.:36:24.

Do you regret using fruit cake and and closet race racist for terms

:36:24.:36:27.

for UKIP. There are Odd people.

:36:27.:36:31.

Their leader seems keen on his party's outsider image.

:36:32.:36:37.

I mean compared to Cameron, Miliband and Clegg, I spent 20

:36:37.:36:40.

years having a job which of course, none of those guys have.

:36:40.:36:45.

Who is to say cap call me Dave isn't weird? He does let his wife

:36:45.:36:50.

dress him. Others like the Mayor of London are just accepted for their

:36:50.:37:00.
:37:00.:37:01.

quirky ways. Even Middle England companies like Waitrose are busy

:37:01.:37:06.

bracing eccentricity, parting company with Delia and employing

:37:06.:37:11.

Heston. Even a man who made a career out of being a rockstar from

:37:11.:37:14.

outer space has fallen back to earth!

:37:14.:37:18.

So where are we now? Well, Mr Cameron, if the polls are to be

:37:18.:37:28.
:37:28.:37:33.

believed, the space oddities from We are joined by Amy. Do you think

:37:33.:37:37.

odd and eccentric is a good or a bad thing? Well, maybe you should

:37:37.:37:42.

tell me, Andrew. But I think actually the UKIP situation is

:37:42.:37:48.

really interesting because David Cameron's comment, you know,

:37:48.:37:52.

basically there are a lot of UKIP members and supporters that are ex-

:37:52.:37:58.

Tories. So effectively, he is calling his own people, "odd and

:37:58.:38:02.

weird." By saying that people are odd or strange or weird, you have

:38:02.:38:06.

to look at opposite of that and that means that there is some sense

:38:06.:38:10.

of what is normal and I don't really believe that. Would you

:38:10.:38:17.

describe yourself as eccentric? I don't think that one can describe

:38:17.:38:21.

one's self as eccentric, it is for someone else to decide really.

:38:21.:38:26.

Do you think the Brits are more open to oddness than the Americans?

:38:26.:38:33.

Mm, well I think eccentricity is a British trait. Wouldn't you agree?

:38:33.:38:40.

I think that... London is a place where it thrives. That's maybe

:38:40.:38:45.

perhaps why I feel so add home here. You know, sure, there are eccentric

:38:45.:38:52.

Americans, but I think you can go to any major European country and

:38:52.:38:55.

any European city and walk down the street and people look boring and

:38:55.:39:03.

then you come to London and it is a feast for the eyes. It is more part

:39:03.:39:08.

of our culture and we like it more? Absolutely.

:39:08.:39:13.

There is a case for more eccentric politicians. We are an age of

:39:13.:39:23.
:39:23.:39:27.

boiler plate politicians? Absolutely. Jacob Ree s Mogg should

:39:27.:39:33.

be from a bygone age. He is stylish and he is different and he does not

:39:33.:39:39.

fit any template. One of the things you hear is when an outstanding

:39:39.:39:43.

member of the House of Commons dies, you will hear people say, "He was

:39:44.:39:49.

the last great character. He was the great eccentric." People think

:39:49.:39:57.

that politicians have become very very homeo genius indeed. And what

:39:57.:40:02.

we are seeing is, you know, that that Boris who cultivates

:40:02.:40:08.

eccentricity is doing well. We saw George Galloway who was on a

:40:08.:40:15.

reality show lapping up cream as a pussycat is elected with a by-

:40:15.:40:20.

election landslide and it looks as if the exsen eccentrics are doing

:40:20.:40:23.

very well. Galloway is a real character.

:40:23.:40:33.
:40:33.:40:36.

Farrage is a real character. I agree with the point, Nigel

:40:36.:40:46.
:40:46.:40:47.

Farrage looks likes a Conservative Conservative cira 1974 in Gerrard's

:40:47.:40:50.

Cross, he doesn't look eccentric, out of time maybe.

:40:50.:40:55.

I think it is insulting to eccentrics to link them with UKIP

:40:55.:41:00.

supporters. I mean, in my opinion UKIP supporters are vile, they are

:41:00.:41:04.

not eccentric. Sticking to the issue of

:41:04.:41:10.

eccentricity. Could we do with more eccentric politicians? No, actually.

:41:10.:41:14.

I don't think so. I actually prefer my politicians to be able to do

:41:14.:41:18.

their job. I am not bothered whether they are wearing a funny

:41:19.:41:23.

tweed coat or bizarrely covered braces. They just need to do the

:41:23.:41:27.

job properly. You were close to Sarah and Gordon

:41:27.:41:33.

Brown. A lot of people thought that Gordon Brown was an odd character

:41:33.:41:38.

character? No, I think he is wonderful.

:41:38.:41:44.

Did you have your hen party in ten Downing Street? Yes, I did.

:41:44.:41:52.

Did Gordon turn up? Yes, of course, he was there. No, we cancelled the

:41:52.:41:56.

stripper and had gord Gordon instead.

:41:56.:41:59.

You could do with more characters on the Labour side.

:41:59.:42:03.

If you look at Parliament it doesn't look as if there is anyone

:42:03.:42:11.

eccentric there. Or even characters P Jacob Ree is a

:42:11.:42:15.

character. You don't need men wearing anything other than dark

:42:15.:42:20.

blue or grey suits. There is no different styles that you see. You

:42:20.:42:27.

don't get people there who are kind of like Grace and Perry coming into

:42:27.:42:35.

Parliament who would I would -- who I would call a real eccentric.

:42:35.:42:41.

Let's put things in prospective here about eccentricity. Amy, thank

:42:41.:42:45.

you. That's your lot. It is our tenth

:42:45.:42:53.

anniversary party in Annabel's tonight. Diane has been there since

:42:53.:43:02.

she clocked off work at 3pm. She has already downed three bottles of

:43:02.:43:07.

of Blue Nun. Here are some highlights. The the mistake known

:43:07.:43:13.

to everyone as the Amarillo mental breakdown. Somewhere in this clip,

:43:13.:43:20.

the serious now political editor of Newsnight is playing the six foot

:43:20.:43:27.

chicken! It was the role of her life. There could be an Oscar in it.

:43:27.:43:35.

Nightie-night. Don't let this week bite. Poppers. Oh yes!

:43:35.:43:45.
:43:45.:43:49.

# We are on the way to election Sunday

:43:49.:43:59.
:43:59.:44:04.

# Dreaming dreams # Sha-la

:44:04.:44:11.

Hsha-la # La # Mark Mardell and Portillo

:44:11.:44:18.

# The rars is on for Number Ten # Will Michael, Tony end up PM?

:44:18.:44:28.
:44:28.:44:29.

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