Browse content similar to 25/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Tonight, join This Week for a political marathon. As the final | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
stragglers cross the Westminster finishing line, we bring up the | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
rear. Defeating terrorism may be a marathon rather than a sprint, but | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
are we ignoring the long-distance dangers? Author and former Islamist | :00:28. | :00:37. | |
Maajid Nawaz thinks we're not keeping up with the radicals. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
question is, what is it about certain young Muslim men, born and | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
raised in their own societies, that makes them want to block their | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
fellow citizens? I will try to tell you why. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
The Chancellor just manages to avoid running into a triple dip | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
recession, but it's not exactly a personal best for the British | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
economy. At least broadcaster Matthew Wright has something left | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
in his tank. A positive result of sorts for the Chancellor, but there | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
is still a long road ahead. And as the London Marathon shows | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
all that is good about Britain, are we too ready to believe our | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
mythical track record? German comedy ambassador, Henning Wehn, | :01:18. | :01:28. | |
:01:28. | :01:31. | ||
puts our performance in perspective. Now, let's debunk stereotypes, but | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
not before I have had a sip of my favourite tipple. | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
On your marks, get set... Hang on, where's the Blue Nun water station? | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week. And welcome to what future | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
historians will surely call the Boy George boom. All 0.3% of it! Strong | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
stuff, indeed. Provided, of course, it's not revised downwards. His | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
mother must be very proud. Yet, who are we to talk down Britain, I hear | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
you cry, to sneer at a growth rate weaker than a bottle of Blue Nun- | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
Lite, when evidence of a booming nation firing on one cylinder lies | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
all around us, whether it be the boom in food banks, the boom in | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
measles, or the boom in Abu Qatada's legal aid bill, which must | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
have financed many a villa on Tuscan hilltops? Yes, it may not be | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
the stimulus package we'd hoped for, but economic beggars often can't be | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
choosers. And if encouraging figures released this week are to | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
be believed, the Boy George boom has even reached the economic | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
wastelands of the West Midlands, where a frankly terrifying | :02:37. | :02:47. | |
:02:47. | :02:47. | ||
statistic reveals that 20% of homes are now in possession of a hot tub. | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
As macro-economists the world over are often heard to say, who needs a | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
thriving manufacturing base when you can have a back rub and a | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
bubble bath in your own back garden? Speaking of suburban | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
swingers, happy to throw their conversational car keys into the | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
This Week fruit bowl, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two men who | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
police often find hiding on Justin Bieber's tour bus, the stun gun and | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
stunned silence of late night political chat. I speak, of course, | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson. And #sadmanonatrain Michael "choo | :03:17. | :03:27. | |
:03:27. | :03:32. | ||
choo" Portillo. Michael, your moment of the week? Wander | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
Murdoch's was sent to prison apparently for trying to get her | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
father out of a residential care home where she thought he was being | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
mistreated. In any case, she was imprisoned by something called the | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Court of Protection, without ever appearing in court and having her | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
chance to argue her case. So it came as a surprise to her to say | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
the least that she was carted off to jail, where she also says she | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
was attacked by other inmates. The point is that I thought it was | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
fundamental that everyone had his or her day in court. Remember, Abu | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
Qatada has had about 20. It is a remarkable story when you think it | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
is happening in Britain, too. Office of National Statistics | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
analysed the censors. You need to get out more often! For the first | :04:20. | :04:27. | |
time in a century home ownership has gone down. There are all sorts | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
of reasons behind that. Higher house prices, falling wages. But it | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
may be something significant. It maybe that the British people are | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
starting to fall out of love with home-ownership and are more | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
inclined to rent. Maybe they just cannot get a mortgage! But if those | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
things are happening it may mean there is a cultural shift as well, | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
forced by circumstances. White Iain Macleod in will be turning in his | :04:54. | :05:04. | |
:05:04. | :05:07. | ||
I am here to teach. White Now, it was a cloudy Monday ten | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
days ago when two young ethnic Chechens planted home-made bombs in | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
the middle of cheering crowds of people. Three died, and over 260 | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
were injured at the finish line of the Boston marathon. There followed | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
a manhunt, not out of place in a TV thriller, for the men whose grainy | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
images had been caught on CCTV. At the Old Bailey today, three British | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
men, including an ex-police community support officer and a | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
Muslim convert, were jailed for preparing acts of terrorism. So | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
just how safe are we, and what does the future hold? We turned to | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
former Islamist, Maajid Nawaz, now an author who campaigns against | :05:45. | :05:55. | |
:05:55. | :06:12. | ||
radical Islam. This is his Take of They were shocking images, young | :06:12. | :06:20. | |
men in Boston carrying backpacks into their own society but decided | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
to maim and kill fellow citizens. Those images reminded us of what | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
happened here on 7/7 at Russell Square and other places in London | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
where equally integrated citizens decided to turn their backs on | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
society. The question is what would have motivated these young men. I | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
know because I spent 13 years inside an Islamist organisation and | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
was imprisoned as a political prisoner in Egypt for attempting to | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
overthrow the Egyptian government. I joined this group at 16 in Essex, | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
having been born and raised there. There is no one identifiable cause | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
for why these brothers turned against their own country, but | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
there are a combination of factors. Being first generation Chechnyans, | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
although they were in America, they suffered from an acute identity | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
crisis and had to decide whether they belonged to their country of | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
heritage or their adopted country. They chose to become Chechnyan. | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
Having settled the identity question, the older brother decided | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
to travel to his country of origin. It was there that he probably met | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
charismatic recruiters, some of whom he watched online, and decided | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
to shift once more from becoming Chechnyan to becoming a member of | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
the global Islamist community. From that point, his struggle and fight | :07:40. | :07:50. | |
:07:50. | :07:52. | ||
became international, and his target became international. When | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
America killed Osama Bin Laden they thought they had dealt with Al- | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
Qaeda but what happened was that the nature of the beast changed. | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
Al-Qaeda went from a global terrorist organisation to a global | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
jihadist insurgency. That means Al- Qaeda has become a brand, | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
sufficient to inspire young men in Boston in the US, and here, to | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
associate with the brand and commit acts of terror without the need for | :08:18. | :08:26. | |
direct operational command. I do not want to be alarmist and I | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
say this with caution, but this is not the last time we will see such | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
acts of terror on our streets in the capitals of Western countries. | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
Battles and conflicts around the world will continue to divide the | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
Al-Qaeda brand with the perfect tool an excuse for recruitment. And | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
Syria has become the new battleground. According to counter- | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
terrorism experts, some 500 young Muslim men from across Europe and | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
from the UK have travelled to Syria to join their new battle and | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
partake in what they perceive as a global warming between Islam and | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
the West. Nobody has said it yet, but I will, Syria is looking | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
increasingly like the new Afghanistan. If so, it will not be | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
long until we see the blog back right here on our streets. -- the | :09:18. | :09:27. | |
From the mean streets of Grimsby to our studio. Welcome to the | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
programme. You finished by saying that we are going to see the | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
effects on our streets. Why are you sure? I am not sure, but I am | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
fearful, because our counter- terrorism experts have estimated | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
that 100 Britons have travelled to Syria to join the so-called jihad. | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
On top of that, some of them have died in the cause, meaning they are | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
prepared to risk their lives. And some of them have targeted British | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
journalists. In one case a British journalist was held hostage by | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
people who had south London accents. I know that because I met a | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
journalist when he returned. And I interviewed him, and he confirmed | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
that he was held by people that spoke like us, and they shot at him | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
and wounded him when he attempted to escape. That means that we | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
should be fearful. There are people in Syria right now who have come | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
from this country and are prepared to target fellow-citizens. You say | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
that Syria is the new Afghanistan but we are not in Syria and we are | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
not on the opposite side, as we were in Afghanistan. In a sense, we | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
are on the same side. Both the jihadists and the British | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
government want to see the end of Bashar Al-Assad. That logic would | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
also apply to Chechnya. If somebody had been radicalised in the north | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
Caucasus, you would think they would attack Russia, not America or | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
Britain. But what happens is that when somebody becomes indoctrinated | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
by the global jihadist ideology, the goal becomes global and the | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
target becomes global. Any target is fair game? Not just any target | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
but strategic targets, and Britain and America are strategic targets. | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
Do you agree? Absolutely and completely. The fear is very real. | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
On the other hand, you have to say that so far the security forces in | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
the United States and in European countries have done pretty well. | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
Quite a lot of plots have been foiled. One came to the Old Bailey | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
today and was resolved with prison sentences. And there have been many | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
more serious ones. And the fact that young men are travelling to | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
Syria, Afghanistan or Pakistan at least gives something that the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
authorities can trace, because they can follow the movements and see | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
who they are in contact with. The numbers might be large, and some of | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
the people are being radicalised, but they may not be making these | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
trips abroad, making them more difficult to follow. As the saying | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
goes, you only have to be unlucky ones, and I suspect we will be | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
unlucky again. For the moment, all praise to the security forces who | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
have done an extremely good job in making sure we have not had deaths | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
here since 7/7. Alan Johnson, you were a former Home Secretary, so | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
you have had to deal with the intelligence assessments. Do you | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
agree that the terrorist threat is getting more serious? Yes. I would | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
question the point that the Americans believed that once they | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
had dealt with Osama Bin Laden or that the problem of Al-Qaeda was | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
over. When I was Home Secretary, the Quilliam Foundation and you and | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
your colleague were becoming of great interest to the Americans | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
because 9/11, the Americans thought it was an outside force attacking | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
America. They did not believe they had a problem with Americans being | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
radicalised. They were suddenly becoming interested in that when I | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
was Home Secretary, and were very keen to talk to the Quilliam | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
Foundation, who have done such good work there. The question about | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
Syria is what to do about it, because some people take that | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
analysis and say that Syria has started as a nationalist movement, | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
and because they were not getting anywhere, because no other | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
countries were intervening, the jihadists moved in. If that is an | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
argument to say that we should intervene in Syria, I do not agree. | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
If it is an argument to say that we should be aware of what Syria is | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
doing, I hate to politicise the point of the Government, we hear | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
today, are dropping the Communications Data Bill. Michael | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
just talked about tracking where people are travelling, and this is | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
not the time to be complacent about the terror threat. It has been | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
called a snooper's charter. I saw it, and so does the Intelligence | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
and Security Committee, as a major problem. We always had the ability | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
with telephone calls and letters, because they were owned by the | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
state. With the explosion of new methods of communication, they do | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
not know, to the extent that they should, who is communicating with | :14:03. | :14:13. | |
:14:13. | :14:19. | ||
$:/STARTFEED. How do we view Al- Qaeda now, I viewed it as like a | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
McDonald's, so many different parts to it where they take the name Al- | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
Qaeda but it's a brand name, rather than a centralised organisation | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
now? That's why I used the word global Jihadist insurgent because | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
it's become a brand, the central command have weakened. I | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
respectfully believe that what happens with the Americans after | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
the killing of Bin Laden they felt the ideaology wouldn't have spread | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
further. What we saw instead was the opposite. Al-Qaeda proper came | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
to power in north Mali, they took over cities in south Yemen. | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
Franchises joined them from Somalia and nienl ya, Shabab -- Nige that. | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
Aye surprised the world by the assassination in Libya. Then we | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
remember the attack at the gas plant in Nigeria. The idealogy of | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Jihadism has spread laterally and you no longer need directional | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
command. So there is no central command and control now, like there | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
was for 9/11 It's an inspiration. It finds itself in those parts of | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
the world which are already pretty troubled like the Horn of Africa? | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
When the troops withdraw, I think we'll witness a Taliban insurgent. | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
The concern I have, although the command structure's weakened, the | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
ideal of the idealogy has gained ground. It leads to the question - | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
what is to be done? Indeed, what is to be done. I think recognising | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
this as a debate means the solution doesn't lie in what Obama has been | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
doing so far which is increasing what they call surgical drone | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
strikes, because if you recognise the tart isn't the men but the | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
ideas, the more men you take out with the collateral damage, you are | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
giving strength to the ideas themselves that this is indeed | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
somehow a war against Islam and Muslims. You agree with the Yemeni | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
artist who testified before congress then? I think it was | :16:21. | :16:29. | |
agreed that drone strikes are a counterproductive measure. Do you | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
agree with that, Michael? It's become, by default, the main weapon | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
of terrorism of the Obama administration? It has because it | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
means Obama doesn't have to go to war so he doesn't have the | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
political problems. It's a hard one because the drones are effective | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
militarily. More or less whatever the West does, there is a narrative | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
which is that the West is involved in an anti-Islamic campaign. By the | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
way, if you are minded that way, you can put together a lot of | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
different things and say western troops went into Iraq, Afghanistan, | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
Libya, you know, it does add up to something in the end, doesn't it? | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
If it's more decentralised, more small groups, lack of command and | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
control at the centre, any attack is horrific, but the scale of | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
Boston wasn't on the scale of 9/11 or even 7/7. Perhaps they don't | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
have the same ability as before? Their operational ability has been | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
affected because they are being relentlessly targeted. What I'm | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
more concerned about is their ability to high jieck uprisings and | :17:36. | :17:43. | |
innuens the agenda in the Middle East -- hijack uprisings and | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
influence the agenda in the Middle East. We need to think about how we | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
make the idealogy of Jihadism as unpopular as communism. We have to | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
ask David Cameron about the generational struggle with these | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
ideas and we are not going to see results in the next year or two. | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
When you are faced with something like Syria, to finish on this, we | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
have heard reports tonight British, European and American intelligence | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
suggesting that chemical weapons may be used by the regime, but we | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
are between a rock and a hard place because we would like to see the | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
end of Mr Assad, but we don't want an Al-Qaeda-backed Government to | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
take over. What do we do? We who controls the narrative controls the | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
agenda. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't with Syria | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
because somebody else is controlling the nah ti. We need to | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
seize back the initiative and the narrative -- narrative. What would | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
that mean? With Syria, I wouldn't say currently the solution is | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
occupational invasion, but it would mean basically gaining the | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
attention and popularising what we are doing for the democratic | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
opposition and providing further support to them. Very interesting. | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
Thank you very much. It's late, even babe station is | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
winding down for the night and you have probably had enough of us | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
already. Alan's laughing! We have one regular viewer whose loyalty | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
cannot be questioned. Evening! Say hello to the wife. Glad you are | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
hear, I don't know what we'd do without you these Thursday nights. | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
If it's good enough for you and Mr Qatada, it's good enough for us. | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
Waiting with perfect timing, the German comedy here to talk about | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
the national myths, French for moths, that bind us all together. | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
For those of you who believe any old nonsense, which is most of our | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
viewers, head over to the Twitter and Fleecebook and if you are | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
behind the times, don't get the good old interweb. It's no secret | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
we like to flog a dead horse after we have drugged it of course, that | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
seems to be the fashion, so with the economy barely spluttering into | :19:57. | :20:05. | |
light, we sent our work experience slaves to find a story. No storm | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
clouds gathering, not even a poorly organised pee up in a brewery, so | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
we are left with no choice. We asked Matthew right to drive on to | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
his vintage bike and rev the throttle slightly in a desperate | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
attempt to demonstrate underpowered economic growth and give us his | :20:24. | :20:34. | |
:20:34. | :20:52. | ||
This is my absolute pride and joy. A panther 600cc. I know she's got a | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
few miles on the clock but she's 61, for heavens' sake. I'll tell you | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
this, there's nothing like riding a British vintage motorcycle on a | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
warm summer's day. When it comes to her handling, she | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
certainly demonstrates more finesse than George Osborne, though of | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
course he's in charge of driving our economy. GDP figures out | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
earlier showed a 0.3% rate of growth which means the country has | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
avoided a stomach-lurching triple dip recession. This is more | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
politically than economically significant. It gives George a good | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
news story and adds to his narrative that the economy is | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
slowly spluttering into life. would say there are encouraging | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
signs, we have the deficit down by a third, over a million new jobs | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
have been created in the private sector, we are making progress but | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
I've never pretended that this is going to be a quick process. | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
I've got something in my eye! Talking of which, the Archbishop of | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
Canterbury proved to be a major irritant for the Chancellor earlier | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
this week. Was he saying that only an act of God can save the economy? | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
I would argue that what we are in at the moment is not a recession | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
but essentially some kind of depression. It therefore takes | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
something very, very major to get us out of it in the same way as it | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
took something very major to get us into it. Any ideas, George? | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
Anything? Time for a pit stop! George made a quick stop himself | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
this week after travelling north to continue the Government's fight | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
against Scottish independence, announcing that if Scotland does | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
vote to go it alone, they can't bank on hanging on to this. The | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
usual, please, love... If we had a eurozone-style currency | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
arrangement, that would beg all sorts of questions about economic | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
risks, about why a foreign Government, which is what the rest | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
of the UK would have become, would want to enter into this arrangement, | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
why it would want to tie itself to the economic policies of the | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
Scottish Government. So frankly it's unlikely that the arrangement | :23:01. | :23:08. | |
could be agreed with the rest of the UK or would work. | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
Nice one. Thank you. With every opinion poll showing Scotland won't | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
vote for independence, you have to ask yourself, doesn't George have | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
anything better to do with his time than to wind up our friends in the | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
north. Oi, where's my cherry? Lovely. No wonder Alex Salmond | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
didn't seem bothered. Whatever the Chancellor of the Exchequer says | :23:27. | :23:34. | |
now, it's condition for his anxiety for people voting independence. | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
What happens is economic, rather than political interest prevailing. | :23:38. | :23:48. | |
:23:48. | :23:52. | ||
We say what's best for Scotland and Touch wood. I've always been a very | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
safe and lucky rider so I've never seen the inside of A&E, which is | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
probably just as well if you were to believe Ed Miliband. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
There is a crisis in A&E and it's no surprise he's cut the number of | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
nurses, his NHS helpline is in crisis and he's wasting billions of | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
pounds on a top down reorganisation that he promised wouldn't happen. | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
The facts speak for themselves. The NHS is not safe in his hands. | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
get your nicker bocker glories in a twist, Ed. The PM was having none | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
of it. Let me give him some simple facts about what's happened in the | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
NHS under this Government. 6,000 more doctors under this Government. | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
7,000 fewer managers under this Government. A million more treated | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
in A&E, half a million more day cases, mixed sex wards, commonplace | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
under Labour, virtually abolished under this Government. Infection | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
rates in the NHS at record low levels. Thank you very much, love. | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
Lovely. Oi, get off my bike! My brother always trying to nick my | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
seat. Feuding brothers, eh. Forget about | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
the Milibands, there's been another fraternal tra that playing out in | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
town after Boris's younger brother was appointed to head up Number | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
Ten's policy unit. The appointment is supposed to help the public | :25:18. | :25:28. | |
:25:28. | :25:31. | ||
connect with the people. Abu Qatada has rode back into town. | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
Theresa May, like countless Home Secretaries before her, has been | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
trying to deport him to Jordan, but the court told her that her latest | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
bid failed. Theresa May wasted no time donning her leathers, revving | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
up the engine and giving it her all, announcing a new legal commitment | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
with Jordan. I believe the treaty we have agreed with Jordan once | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
ratified by both Members of Parliament will finally make | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
possible the deportation of Abu Qatada. I have warned the House | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
before, even when the treaty is fully ratified, it will not mean | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
Abu Qatada will be on a mane to Jordan within days. It's like | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
ground hog day all over again. The public doesn't understand why the | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
Government went send him on the first plane out of here, but then | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
they see the sinister shadow cast by the European court. | :26:19. | :26:29. | |
:26:29. | :26:38. | ||
I've got an idea. I'll take him on Matthew Wright at the Ace Cafe. | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
Gillian tell joins us in our little cafe in Westminster. The Chancellor | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
claims the growth figures show that the "Economy is beginning to heal" | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
-- Gillian Tett. Is he right? probably not falling off a cliff, | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
but there are signs of stablisation in places. I think you would give a | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
chance for a B to B minus in terms of how the economy is performing. | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
The saving grace is that most of Europe probably has a C minus, if | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
not a D plus right now. Terrible figures coming out of Europe? | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
Record unemployment in Spain and France, I mean astonishingly high | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
levels of social pain over there. The newspapers pundits obsess about, | :27:24. | :27:33. | |
is it up 0.3% or down 0.3%. Of course, the fact is the economy's | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
largely flatlining, but it was symbolically important for the | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
Government? It was. As were the borrowing figures where it shaded | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
the right way, just. It doesn't alter the fact that, apart from | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
Italy, out of G7 countries, where we have got the worst performance | :27:47. | :27:56. | |
for getting back to our pre- recession level. We are 2.6% lower. | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
Germany, Canada and the US are back where they were. The Chancellor | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
would say that's because we had the biggest financial services industry | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
as a proportion pof our GDP and we therefore took the biggest hit. | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
That would be a fair point if it wasn't for the boom bust that | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
George gave us in 2010. It was nothing to do with the banking | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
crisis, nothing to do with the fact that we had the biggest financial | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
services in the world, it was to do with the previous Government. I | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
think he said we are now out of danger zone in 2010. It's obvious | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
we weren't out of the danger zone. I don't know if you had a short | :28:35. | :28:45. | |
:28:45. | :28:45. | ||
hand when you were a rookie journalist. You go up and down and | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
across, in Pitman and it's a good way of capturing what is going on, | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
because it flatlines. Britain was massively overleveraged with too | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
much debt. Unfortunately, it's going to have to work through the | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
debt and the chance of anything other than a lot of sluggish | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
performances for quite a while is low. How important are the lack of | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
growth figures? Are the voters taking note of this? Are the people | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
taking note of this, or are they more concerned that living | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
standards are still squeezed? I would have thought the more | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
significantly electoral figure is that the earning figures in March | :29:25. | :29:35. | |
:29:35. | :29:41. | ||
showed a 0% rise on February of The markets are taking note. The | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
crucial battle for the Government is continuing to finance a new debt | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
at around 2%, as opposed to 5%, as the Italians and Spanish are paying. | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
That is because the Bank of England is buying most of it. We can print | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
money and devalue our currency, terrific flexibility. To emphasise | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
the point about Spain, more than 6 million unemployed, a country | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
smaller than ours. That figure was terrifying because it reminded me | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
of my history at university, 6 million unemployed when Hitler came | :30:14. | :30:23. | |
to power in Germany. It is quite astounding. Mr Miliband is not | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
without his problems as well. It is interesting that Labour is still in | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
some difficulties even though hardly any economic indicators are | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
going the right way for the Government. What did you make of | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
Unite's Len McCluskey's attack? had my own and spat with him a few | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
weeks ago. Renaissance, it is good for Ed Miliband, because part of | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
the portrayal of Ed Miliband as the only one, that he was the prisoner | :30:54. | :31:04. | |
:31:04. | :31:04. | ||
of Len McCluskey and Unite. So is it a set-up? I do not think so. | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
Coming up to local government elections, it is an extraordinary | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
intervention to attack two people, Douglas Alexander and Jim Murphy, | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
both loyal colleagues who have not done anything that I have seen to | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
stir up disunity. Has Alex Salmond got himself into a bit of a mess by | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
saying Scotland will become an independent country but it will | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
retain Monetary Union with the rest of the UK, in the sense that what | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
the eurozone shows is that monetary union without fiscal or political | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
union does not work? It is an argument that is moving away from | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
him. It would normally be an argument of obscurity that the | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
public will not understand, but at the moment they will be able to. | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
George Osborne is playing a political game, but it is a | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
political game with a common sense. Underneath it. If we imagine the | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
Scottish government pursuing the policy is the SNP favour, high | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
public spending, high taxation, high levels of deficit, it is | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
difficult to see how that can exist within a single currency which is | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
shared with the UK, where the UK is pursuing different fiscal policies. | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
I could not agree more. If I was Alex Salmond, the last thing I | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
would want to start talking about is a virtual currency union, given | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
what is happening in Europe. It will be hard to pull that off. | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
may be blowing up in his face, but he is saying, we can have | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
independence and not much would change. We will still have the | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
Queen, armed services and we will still be in Europe, but we will not | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
have the Euro. The original policy was independence within Europe with | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
the euro. A few years ago Alex Salmond was sniffy about sterling. | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
He used to say the Bank of England was only concerned about the South | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
of England. I thought the message was excellent but I worry about the | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
messenger. Danny Alexander was there, but maybe he was the one to | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
convey the message, given the way that George Osborne's personality | :33:12. | :33:19. | |
goes down. There are more pandas in Edinburgh Sudan there are MPs in | :33:19. | :33:28. | |
Scotland. -- in Edinburgh Zoo. big story of the day, Boris | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
Johnson's brother in Number 10. Not many people have heard of Joe | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
Johnson but he was your colleague at the Financial Times. We have a | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
rich dynasty of Johnson's having gone through our ranks. He is a man | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
of brilliant brains and equally strong self-confidence and opinions. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
I look forward to seeing how he will get on with his colleagues at | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
Number 10. I think it is encouraging that those close to | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
David Cameron, people that say that David Cameron is surrounded by old | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
Loughtonians, don't you think this appointment proves it? Hold on, he | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
went to Eton and then Oxford. Oh, and he was in the Bullingdon club, | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
too. That is good. Somebody needs to get a grip of the machine, | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
Number 10. If Joe Johnson ran the Lexa Kong, he has the right | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
intellectual calibre. Let's hope he has the right skills. I was the | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
head of that as well and it is a nightmare job, trying to organise a | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
group of self-confident and cocky people in getting them to agree on | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
something. If he could do that at the Financial Times, Number 10 | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
should be a walk in the park. Abu Qatada saga continues. It was | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
around when you were Home Secretary. It could be that the deal with | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
Jordan is again changer. Can we also agree that the idea of Britain | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
doing a temporary exit, getting rid of him and coming back in, | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
squadrons of pigs would be flying? It would be illegal. We did it | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
during the Northern Ireland troubles, to get internment without | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
trial, because there was a national issue. Article 15 of the convention | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
allows you to do this where there is a strict necessity. To try to do | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
it, and to then breach the UN convention on torture, which is | :35:25. | :35:32. | |
very important, it would be illegal, so it is a non starter. That | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
Government is not brave enough to leave the European Convention on | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
Human Rights even temporarily. I think it was shut up. We have run | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
out of time. Good to see you again. Now, there are many myths | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
associated with a show like This Week, the origins of which are lost | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
in the mists of BBC time. But there are some things even we wouldn't | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
dare lie to you about. For example, Molly the dog really does live with | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
me. Alan "AJ" Johnson really does choose his own shirts. And Michael | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
Portillo really does warm up before every show with 500 naked star | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
jumps, whilst shouting "Who da man? You da man!" into his dressing room | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
mirror. Cross my heart. But not everyone is so truthful, so we've | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
decided to test the theory, and put national myths in this week's | :36:22. | :36:32. | |
:36:32. | :36:41. | ||
Saint George's dragon slaying myth appeared the least ridiculous part | :36:41. | :36:48. | |
of the day. England's other less saintly George chose the same day | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
to warm the Scots that if the myth says they like to hang onto their | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
pennies, they should think twice about giving up their pounds. So, | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
are these national myths essential, binding us together as a society, | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
just as a currency does economically? Does it matter if the | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
American Dream is sometimes more than fiction? If the Germans | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
actually have a sense of humour? Maybe French men are rubbish in bed. | :37:18. | :37:25. | |
At least we know where the truth ends and the myth begins. As anyone | :37:25. | :37:34. | |
who has witnessed us at Annabel's can surely attest. | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
We are joined by Henning Wehn. Is it not the case that some national | :37:42. | :37:49. | |
myths are true? Take German football teams this week. Amazing, | :37:49. | :37:59. | |
:37:59. | :38:00. | ||
efficient game winners. Amazing. The Polish striker scored four | :38:00. | :38:07. | |
goals. Amazing! It is very good because Germany were not doing very | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
well in football. We have not won a major tournament for 17 years. We | :38:12. | :38:21. | |
have not been to a final for 36 months. They play a very efficient | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
kind of football. At the moment, they have not won anything for many | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
years. At the moment, you are watching and you think, are they | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
really the teams from the bond as leader? It looks good if you are | :38:36. | :38:46. | |
:38:46. | :38:47. | ||
watching England. Or Scotland. Scotland still play football? Some | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
of your material is based on myths about Germans and the British. But | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
are they true, or do you dwell on them to get a laugh? Truth is just | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
repetition of lies, isn't it? If you say it over and over again, | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
finally people will believe it. was a famous German who said that. | :39:09. | :39:19. | |
:39:19. | :39:23. | ||
Who are you talking about? I think There is always a grain of truth in | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
them, I think. But over time it becomes exaggerated and gets a life | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
of its own. Like Germans not having a sense of humour, for example. | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
What was a myth about Britain that you hold and turned out not to be | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
true when you came? I did not really have an idea of what Britain | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
was like. My whole idea of Britain was essentially based on TV adverts. | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
I expected everyone to live in castles and go fox-hunting. | :39:58. | :40:08. | |
what is your point? That is only the Cabinet. Someone said David | :40:08. | :40:15. | |
Cameron thought Downton Abbey was reality TV. Our national myths used | :40:15. | :40:22. | |
for? I would suggest the American national myth of the American Dream, | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
anybody can get on, particularly for an immigrant nation, that is a | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
narrative for immigrants, isn't it? That is the best example. Quite a | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
lot of British myths are unhelpful. One British myth is that we have | :40:36. | :40:44. | |
not been invaded since the 1066. Actually, we were invaded in 1216 | :40:44. | :40:52. | |
and 1688. In 1688 we were conquered by a Dutchman. But I think the idea | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
that we have not been invaded since the 1066 informs much of our view | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
of the world, and it happens not to be true. So national myths can be | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
dangerous or misleading? Yes, the myth that Conservatives can always | :41:07. | :41:15. | |
run the economy well... I am glad you are not being party-political. | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
I used to think German-trained ran on time, but they discovered they | :41:19. | :41:29. | |
:41:29. | :41:29. | ||
do not. -- German trains. That started with reunification in 1990. | :41:29. | :41:36. | |
Until then, spot-on. We liked nothing better than telling stories | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
about other nationalities. The oldest Hackney joke about the | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
Germans from the Brits is about the bath towels by the swimming pool, | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
there from 6am in the morning. What do the Germans think when they hear | :41:52. | :41:59. | |
this trotted out again and again? They do not really here it. It is a | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
very insular rumour in the UK about foreigners. It is the Brits talking | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
to themselves and no one gets it. What is the biggest myth that | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
Germans have about the Brits? tricky. There are not many myths or | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
stereotypes about Britain, because of the class divide. On the one | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
hand you have the idea of everyone living in a castle. Then you go on | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
holiday to Spain and you see the Brits holidaying abroad. Those two | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
stereotypes, you cannot get them into one. That is a result, because | :42:33. | :42:41. | |
of the class divide. You do not want those who go to Spain going to | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
Germany. Know, you do not want them. What is the biggest myth about | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
Britain? The -- probably that we are self-effacing, whereas really | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
we are quite immodest and proud of what we do. I think the invasion | :42:59. | :43:08. | |
one. The biggest myth about Britain? The idea of tolerance. | :43:08. | :43:14. | |
think that is a myth? What is tolerance? Essentially, something | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
you really dislike. I do not think you should be allowed to say that! | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
Thank you very much. That's it for tonight, but not for | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
us, because we're off to Annabel's to confirm our total lack of | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
preparations for next week's potentially disastrous live | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
audience show. Michael and Alan will finally come face-to-face with | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
their stalking public. Their stalking public will finally come | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
face to face with their satin shirts. And Molly the dog will no | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
doubt cock a leg on a fuse box and throw us all off air. But we leave | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
you tonight with public enemy number one, a highly dangerous | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
individual who must be enjoying sending the Home Secretary, Theresa | :43:53. | :43:57. |