02/05/2013 This Week

I think we have hit the big time now. They live audience. The bright

lights of London. Celebrities. I even think the paparazzi is chasing

We are here, sir. Where are we? Shepherd's Bush, west London, not

somewhere I usually come after dark. Shepherd's Bush! You would have

thought we could afford something posher than that. Question Time got

St Paul's a couple of weeks ago. Give us a smile. �20 for you, but

Morley is free. Any chance of her From the heart of West London,

broadcasting around the world, sort of, it's This Week, with Andrew

Tonight, Michael "choo choo" Portillo. Alan "AJ" Johnson. Man of

the moment, Nigel Farage, and his pint of beer. Stand-up comedian and

former prison officer Ava Vidal. One-woman show-off Christine

Hamilton. And your host, cub reporter and Paisley boy, Andrew

Evenin' all. Welcome to a very special This Week. A one-off, never

to be repeated, potentially disastrous, career-threatening car

crash of a show. With, for the very first time, a semi-comatose, over-

the-limit, care-in-the-community audience of seriously tragic This

Week fans. The Blue Nun is flowing, as are Michael's bowels. But the

rest of us are far too excited to be nervous, because, helping us

stagger through the next 45 minutes, I'm joined tonight by my very own

personal harpist, the fabulous # You are my new boys

# My new fellows # Don't know how we are going to

Blaise # I know we are done with

yesterday's # Because you are my new boy is

# So let's just wait and see how it goes. #

More from Lucinda later. She follows me everywhere, you know.

Now, tonight's experiment in meltdown TV is only happening

because of our unrivalled "commitment to public service", to

quote Tory MP Jesse Norman, who was trying to explain why there were so

many Old Etonians in the Government. Well, same here. Yes, we use the

very same meritocratic recruitment agency as Downing Street. As a

result, our entire production team is staffed exclusively by selfless

old Etonians. Old Etonians chosen purely on the basis of ability,

plus, of course, the right sort of accent and breeding, who think

nothing of the glittering prizes and social status they could have

had if they'd been selfish enough to become teachers, nurses, social

workers or care assistants, choosing instead a more humble path

of self-sacrifice, devoting their working lives to the poor and the

wretched, which is the typical This Week viewer, in a desperate hope

that they may one day convince the Cheeky Girls to make a film for us

about the internal contradictions at the heart of the Bank of

England's quantitative easing policy. Oh, yes! That, for This

Week old Etonians, is indeed the promised land. Speaking of those

who will do anything to avoid getting a proper job, I'm joined on

the sofa tonight by two men who we've enticed down from the fourth

plinth in Trafalgar Square. The rockin' red rooster and giant blue

cockerel of late night political chat. I speak, of course, of

#manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson, and #sadmanonatrain Michael "choo

And not forgetting the real star of You're moment of the week?

President Obama has said to Congress that Guantanamo Bay should

be closed. Now, he had actually promised to close it within one

year of coming to office, three years ago. It is the most

horrendous problem for the Americans because they now have 166

guys there who, even if they were not radical when they went in there,

are now completely radicalised. Supposedly 100 are on hunger strike

and some of them will die. This is the most horrible advertisement for

the United States, which prides itself on justice and due process.

It is going to be very difficult to bring prosecutions against them. If

you release any of them, having been radicalised by 10 years in

Guantanamo, you will have a problem. So your prediction is that they

will not get out under his term? Exactly. But he will blame Congress.

Which he is doing already. Alan, your moment of the week.

Afghans work as interpreters for the British army in Afghanistan.

They assist the army and the army could not do its job without them.

When they leave, they will be sitting targets. The United Nations

say that last year, the Taliban assassinated 700 Afghans for

conspiring, in their terms, with the government. This government is

apparently faffing around as to whether to give those of them that

want asylum asylum. It is a real no-brainer. They have a moral

obligation to these people and they should give them asylum. Of course.

Interesting. Now, this week the Government

opened a new front in the war on those it deems living the high life

at the expense of hard-pressed, law-abiding taxpayers, announcing

strict new rules on access to gym equipment, daytime television,

which is a real threat to the Daily Politics, and a much longer working

day. Fortunately for Michael Portillo, if not for Chris Huhne,

the new rules only apply to prisoners. So as long as he stays

one step ahead of plod, he's free to carry on with his profligate

ways as usual. But those already doing porridge are not getting off

so lightly. And so we turned to stand-up comedian and former prison

officer Ava Vidal. This is her take Anyone who thinks prison is a

holiday camp clearly has not spent any time in a prison. I have. I

spent five years behind these walls at Pentonville's men prison in

north London, working as a prison officer. I have also been to

Butlins, so I understand how the comparison could be drawn, but

believe me, it is ridiculous. Politicians of all parties just do

The punishment when you break the law and a sentence is loss of

liberty. Prisons are rough places. The first few months of working in

one, you are ill all the time because you come into contact with

germs he never even knew existed. In the winter it is too cold, in

the summer it is too hot, and it seems fights break out every 30

minutes. Prisoners are full of anger, energy, pent up frustration.

How do the Government think restricting Jim access is going to

help at all. Chris Grayling announced this week that convicted

mail Print -- prisoners would have to wear uniform for the first two

weeks of their sentence. You might as well put a target sign on the

back of their trousers. When first time offenders come into prison

they are often terrified. I have seen grown men break down and cried.

In a prison like this, with different category is of inmates,

that idea is not only pointless but downright dangerous. There seems to

be a view held by readers of a certain newspaper that British

prisons are full of child rapists watching satellite TV. During that

time that I worked here, hardly any inmates got to watch TV at all,

which is a shame for this week's viewing figures. For the sake of

everyone in prison, prisons should be allowed to maintain their

dignity. If you start treating a human being like an animal, you

cannot be surprised if they start acting like one.

From Pentonville prison to our little prison. Ava Vidal are,

Now, isn't prison meant to be not a very nice place, to deter people

from ending up there? It isn't a very nice place. Losing your

liberty is supposed to be the punishment. Do you think that the

way that you see it is what would suit a prison officer, rather than

what does not suit a prisoner? The idea of prisoners not to make life

easy for prison officers. It is not. Obviously, that has to be taken

into consideration. If you are going to make a place dangerous for

you to work in, why would anyone want that? Is there a shortage of

prison officers? Well, there is, and a lot of people are leaving the

job quite early. I was speaking to someone who was working at Wormwood

Scrubs and left after three months. People leave after a few months and

do not want to work in the job. Alan, his prison a tough, horrible

environment? I think it is and the purpose of prisoners to make sure

people do not reoffend. If this contributes to that, it is fine.

Chris Grayling has form on this. And on the same day that it was

announced that 10,000 people who had committed serious violent

offences were not prosecuted, or even cautioned. They were given

community services. Five years ago that figure was 800. On the one

hand, the Government is saying, we are getting tough on crime. On the

other hand, for people who have committed those serious violent

offences, they can watch all the TV they want because they will be

nowhere near a prison. If the purpose is that people do not

reoffend, it is clearly not working. For adult male prisoners the

reoffending rate is 52% and for young offenders it is 78%. Michael,

is the Government right to make prison seem tougher? I am

suspicious of what the Government has said in the last few days,

again because of the timing. I think the public is pretty shocked

at what is being made available in prison. I had no idea prisoners

were not wearing prison uniform. I cannot see any reason for prisoners

not to wear prison uniform. I think a lot of the things around

television are there for the convenience of prison officers.

Because, of course, people who are very bored, like boards children,

are much more difficult to control than people who can lose their

minds watching television all day. I agree that prison is a pretty

nasty place anyway, because the people in prison make it very nasty

for each other, both prisoners and prison officers. But I do think the

public at some level feel duped. I think what they must feel duped

about is not the television but the sentences. It is the idea that your

sentenced to 10 years but you end up serving three-and-a-half. I know

that is done for reasons of prison control, to give people an

incentive to behave well, but the $:/STARTFEED. When you say they are

given ten and do five, they should do the other five. What the

Government wants to implement won't be good for anyone. Are you saying

Sky TV is Draconian? Sky TV is being watched by prisoners all over

the place is the way it's being portrayed. That's not true. If the

Government hadn't privatised prisons, there wouldn't be sky TV.

Should prisoners wear uniforms? there's something about this being

put into a category. Ava will understand this more. It's about

red tape because there are different categories of prisoner.

What Chris Grayling is saying is that for the first two years, they

should wear a uniform. Does that suggest for the first two years

they don't and when they move on to another level in prison they

should? I thought for the first two weeks it was new prisoners.

Thirlwall behaved they can come out of uniform and wear their own

clothes. They are encouraged not to wear their own clothes so they

don't set their own clothes on fire because they often set the other

clothes on fire. The time when suicide risk is the first two weeks.

Why do you need to do that? There are induction wings for new

prisoners anyway so why highlight them to the rest of the prison

population and put them at risk? Give me one major change you would

make to prison policy that would make prisons a better place, and by

that I mean not just a place of punishment but a place of

rehabilitation? Work and Ken Clarke's rehabilitation revolution

was about bringing work into prison so prisoners weren't doing nothing

all day and work would be heart of the rehabilitation so they could

have a skill and something to do. It must be aimed at stopping

reoffending. Literacy and having rewards and punishments for

progress and failures. What happened to the Ken Clarke

rehabilitation programme? It all goes round in circles. Chris

Grayling came in! It goes round in circles, doesn't it. A few years

ago we had the policy of trying to reduce the prison population. Now

we seem to have population -- populations increasing. It goes

round and nothing seems to change very much. When you were or if you

were Home Secretary what change would you make? It seems like we

are moving to an American-type system with longer sentences and

big companies are having contracts with prisoners. If you are a big

company and there's one that had a contract with Pentonville which --

when I worked there which I can't name, they were giving them jobs

and they are paying them �3 a week for it. It seems to me that they

are moving towards this like slave system like in the US. What's

tougher, being a standup comedian or being a prison officer? Both

very similar! Ava Vida!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Now, it's late, it's late, it's so

late even babe station are running a test card.

But it's a very interesting test card. Anyway, let me dangle some

even more tempting treats before you. Coming up soon, the man

dragging the Tory party to the right, Nigel Farage, he'll be here

soon and a woman dragging us into the past and talking nostalgia,

Nigel's very own fairy godmother, Christine Hamilton. She'll be

popping in for a chat too. If for some reason you can't wipe away any

of the thoughts from tonight's show from your memory, relive the horror

of it on the Twitter, the Fleecebook oh yeah and the old

relic of the Blair Brown days, the long forgotten interweb.

Lucinda, help us out, please, give us at least something to remember

you by? # Time won't wait for you to hold

# I say time won't wait for you... CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Now, today, the polls opened and the people have spoken. We are not

quite sure what they've said yet, because most votes won't be dounted

until tomorrow. If -- counted until tomorrow.

Nigel Farage's populist insurgent appears to be spooking all the main

parties. Even normally unflappable Ken Clarke was moved to call them

clowns. Clowns! How could he?! Since he was wearing a baggy brown

roll-neck sweater and looked like he was auditioning to be the new

Captain Birds Eye, it kind of detracted from what he was saying

so we send the Independent's Mary- Anne Seaghart into the political

circus to find out what is happening in the political week.

Roll up, roll up, it's the greatest show on earth. Not long left. Grab

your seats while you can. Politicians have been touring the

country this week trying to drum up support for their acts but it's

been a spectacular campaign and when we wake up tomorrow, we may

find not enough of us have voted. UKIP have joined the circus and

veteran Tory MP Ken Clarke was keen to slap a red nose on them. Very

tempting to vote for a bunch of clowns or indignant people who

promise somehow they'll allow you to take revenge on the people that

caused it. You should vote for people who you think will be

sensible county councillors. Trouble is, once you start

insulting UKIP, their voters feel they are being insulted too. And

they are just the sort of people the Tories need to win back. So

this week, David Cameron decided to ignore his rivals all together. He

couldn't even bring himself to mention their name in interviews.

My view is this election is about who you want to run your county

council and if you want to keep the council tax down, if you want good

services, sensible decision-making, vote Conservative. I'm a

participant in this election for the Conservatives. I'm going to

talk about them, rather than anybody else. The Tory leader

strategy is to try to win back UKIP voters by hinting on legislation

for an EU referendum and also to talk about freezing council tax

which is not a bad ploy when cost- of-living is high in voters' minds.

But he's hardly been setting the shires alight, or indeed making

them laugh the way Nigel Farage does. The truth is, these elections

aren't hugely important to the Tories because we are still in the

mid term of a Parliament. Some mutinous Tory MPs are seeing them

as a gauge of how well Cameron is doing, so if he loses many hundreds

of seats tonight, he's going to have to watch his back.

It's a tough job being party leader and Ed Miliband really needs to

work on his political muscle. He gave a very weak radio interview

this week which didn't exactly portray him as a man to lift the

economy out of its woes. People are asking us this very important

question about the country which is, are our problems so deep that

nobody can make a difference to them - my emphatic answer is yes.

Ouch, I winced when I heard that. A slip of the tongue it may have been,

but the problem for Ed is that, if he has strong convictions, he's not

showing it. If he thinks that higher borrowing now will lead to

lower borrowing later, why not just say so? He's got another problem

too. He staked a lot on this One Nation Labour business, meaning

he's really got to win seats in the south today. He's made a rod for

his own back -- made a rod for his own back.

Bringing up the rear and struggling to hold on to third place in the

polls are the Liberal Democrats. The trouble is that they are no

longer the party that people want to pin their protest vote on.

That's now UKIP and Clegg won't get the votes back while he's still in

Government. His only hope is to try to attract

new supporters who used to think a Liberal Democrat vote was a wasted

vote. He's not ruling out any future coalition with Labour, but

it's tricky trying to ride two horses at once. The if the public

say the only way in which this country can be governed in a

sensible, centre ground stable way would be a coalition of a different

combination now but still involving the Liberal Democrats, I would,

just as last time, do duty to the country.

It hasn't been stupendous applause and stars and spanningles for UKIP

this week because they have been under more scrutiny and the

spotlight revealed some nutty candidates and even more nutty

policies. Still, Nigel Farage himself is likeable and fupy and

popular and people reckon there's not much downside to voting UKIP as

a protest vote today. Probably the same will happen at the euro

elections, but that doesn't mean a big show at the general election

because the stakes will be higher there. Still, I bet Nigel Farage

will be celebrating his performance in a pub tonight. What about the

other three party leaders? They'll probably be sitting looking sadly

at the empty beer glasses and asking themselves what's he got

that I haven't?! Joining our little circus here in

Shepherds Bush, we have the Liberal Democrats' Miranda Green and Nigel

Farage. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

So, Nigel, how well have you done think very well. I think we'll

probably, in the seats we've stood in, get... We know you don't like

to be without a pint. Oh, gosh, thanks! Down in one, down in one...

Not tonight. He's got a long night ahead of him. I'm not going to show

off. I think where we've stood Well get 15-20% of the vote, we'll win

dozens of county council seats. The most significant result tonight for

UKIP will be one that the Westminster bubble commentators

don't want to recognise because the narrative is... Talking about us?

Very much so. Oh, yes. Yes. Bring it on. I'll give you a bubble.

Where's Molly? The story is that UKIP take Tory votes, that UKIP

voters are all retired half colonels living on Salisbury plain.

What's wrong with that?! We have got some! What will happen tonight

in South Shields is even more significant than the county council

elections where UKIP, having never stood in the Parliamentary seat

before, in a seat that's been safe Labour for 100 years, there's never

been a challenge to Labour there, I'm going to predict now that we'll

get 25% of the vote, maybe a little more, from a complete standing

start and most of the voters will be old Labour voters. So the idea

that UKIP is going to damage the Tories' prospects at the next

election isn't necessarily right. I think, I don't know whether Michael

agrees with this, but our effect is more psychological than it is

arithmetical. What do you think about that? I largely agree. UKIP

will take votes from Tories, Liberal Democrats and Labour,

probably more from Conservatives than the other two, but I think

Nigel is right to to make that point.

The Tories, yes, it's having a psychological impact. David Cameron

was elected as Conservative Party leader because he said that the

party should be moved to the centre ground, that was absolutely firmly

where he stood and there's no doubt that UKIP's recent performance has

led him to adjust that strategy and there's been some movement to the

right. Are you saying he's got a strategy? I mean he's all over the

place? One week they are closet racists, next week don't talk about

them, the next week later they are calling the clowns. That's a

strategy? If there's been movement to the right, it's the wrong

strategy. I think David Cameron believes in his heart and has said

until recently that the Conservative Party will only win by

addressing the centre ground. is Euro-Scepticism right-wing? I

don't understand this. After all, it was the Labour Party up until

the mid 80s... It's not the Euro- Scepticism that bothers me at all.

You are a Euro-sceptic? I am profoundly and I don't think it's

right-wing, it's more what's been going on around immigration which I

think... That's European Union now too. Well, some of it is. Bulgaria

and Romania. We have been saying with a million young unemployed in

Britain, should we be opening the doors unconditionally to two poor

countrys with a population of 30 million next year. Is that right-

wing? I'm a Euro-sceptic but happen to believe that a lot of

immigration is going to be absolutely fundamentally important

to this country because I think the population... That's not the point

is it? It is A point. It's unconditional open door immigration.

That's why old Labour's voting for us because they are the people who

can't get jobs and those that have jobs have seen wages driven down

over the course of the last few years to extraordinary degree.

Miranda? OK, but it's not an unalloyed good for you that it's

old Labour that you are attracting and in the same way, it's nostalgic

Conservatives that you are attracting which is not good.

Bulgarians and Romanians are the future. This is very interesting

because obviously what we have got at the moment is an electorate

that's undecided, as you were discussing on the Daily Politics

this week, if it was an election today Labour would probably win but

who knows in 2015. Even if Liberal Democrat numbers are reduced, if

the electorate does not give the Conservative Party or the Labour

Party an overall majority, we might still be into a coalition situation.

That will be the reality. Then we'll be still talking about how to

make Britain fit for a massive global competition and those

preoccupations exI'm afraid, that Nigel is identifying in large

swathes of the electorate are not ones to solve this problem of the

future. What is happening, Alan? We have a coalition Government in

which unemployment's rising again, living standards are squeezed, as

never been, inflation still high, deficits reductions stalled, almost

no growth in the economy at all? Because we are coming up to an

election and it is not Ed Miliband was my finest hour... We lost an

election three years ago. Nobody won it, and we lost it. You cannot

go back to the electorate and say, you got it wrong last time. We have

to change. It is very difficult to change that around in a five-year

period. I think Ed Miliband is doing OK on that. I do not treat

the polls with enormous respect, but I think he is doing very well,

given that usually when Labour is voted out of power, 1979, we tell

ourselves to pieces. There is a good deal of unity. Excuse me! A

good deal of unity? Have you read Tony Blair's article in the New

Statesman, at the scene of Peter Mandelson has been saying. These

are not members of parliament. terms of what is happening in the

Tory party, where there is a real hostility towards Cameron... We

will see what happens about Europe. I think because he was worried

about Nigel, he has given a hint when he will carry a bill in this

Parliament for a referendum that will not happen for five years.

do not believe him, do we? That is to placate the backbenchers.

Lib Dems will not let him bring forward a bill for a referendum.

Quite rightly so. This is terribly dangerous because we have a

situation in which there is no money so nobody can make promises

to the electorate about what they will spend on and what their

spending priorities are. You get a lot of gesture politics and

posturing. Mythe -- my fear is that this referendum posturing because

of the Tory party fear of UKIP is going to get the country in a real

fix. I wanted to pick up on the point in the report. If the

coalition has decided, which it pretty much has, not to fight the

next election as a coalition, there will be no defence of what the two

parties in government have done over the last five years. All of

this horror we have been through for five years, the absolutely

magnificent resilience the parties have shown in putting through the

austerity programme, Earth no one will be there to defend it because

both parties will be attacking each other. It is self evident that if

either party wants to be in government next time, they should

fight as a coalition defending their record. That is not going to

happen. That way lies disaster. For Allen to say, when the Tories did

not win the last election and they only had 37%, for him to save five

years is a short time to turn things around, it is an absolute

open goal. In electoral history, it is difficult. Once the electorate

have said something... They certainly did not vote for us.

Lib Dems and Conservatives are not going to fight the election

together. Absolutely, but it is really, really important, almost

the only thing Nick Clegg and his troops can say about the next

election is, look what we provided in this five-year period, the

benefits of coalition. Also for the Lib Dems, because they are so in

favour of electoral reform, they have to defend the coalition. So

the Lib Dems, even if the Tory party is not, will be defending the

coalition programme, because that is their mission. Actually, much of

the electorate are cheesed off with three parties, with three party

leaders and three frontbenchers who have all been to top schools, top

universities, gone to research officers, never done a day's work

in their lives. Where you like UKIP or not, we are connecting with

ordinary, decent people, and it may be very different in 2015 to

anything we have seen before. are connecting because Mr Cameron

followed your advice in rebranding the Tory party and in the process

created a huge political space for UKIP to occupy. How do you deal

with that? By not being concerned about it. That will work! It will

work. And the European elections, that won't matter? Not at all. Who

gives a stuff about European elections? You just lost them! When

they take a way votes from Conservatives, who are a couple of

1000 boats ahead of Labour, some Lib Dem votes go to Labour, a lot

of Tory votes go to him and you lose all of these seats, it won't

matter? We started by saying UKIP would take votes from all parties

and I agree with that. I am talking about strategy. I am talking about

how you get 42% of the vote, which you need to form a majority

government if you are the Conservative Party. There is no

doubt, it is by focusing on the centre ground. If UKIP take 3% or

4%, which is all I think they will take, it is nothing compared with

the 10 to 15% which is at play in the centre ground. The things have

changed in British politics. Please, have Kenneth Clarke on the front

bench. He put us up 2% this week. I am advising him to speak at an

annual conference. He has done us a massive favour. Five or 10 years

ago there were green politicians sitting there with a smug look on

their face that you have to Dave. It turns back between now and the

general election. Can I be the peacemaker? No, stir it up.

Nigel should be pleased because people are taking UKIP seriously to

the extent that they are examining their policies. This is why I agree

with Michael. Nigel said being against immigration is not right

wing, but it is when your policy is to have no immigration for five

years and then have a ridiculous cap. That is very right wing. Lots

of right-wingers have argued that over the years. That scrutiny, end

of the smoking ban, get rid of anything to do with trying to

tackle climate change, all of that, at a general election, will mean we

will not have to worry too much. Let's presume that you have done it

would -- done well in South Shields and done well in the local

elections, giving new momentum, someone in Downing Street said to

me that you were going to come first in the European elections

next year. Do you agree? We have every chance of winning the

European elections next year because we are the only party

saying Britain should be a self- governing nation, a friendly with

Europe but governing our own country. That is supported by a

majority of the population, so, yes. What is your personal ambition?

have none. Don't be ridiculous! You're a politician. I do not feel

I am a politician. I spent 20 years in business. I got in Dalton

politics because they all think we should be governed from somewhere

else and I think we should govern ourselves. We are living in a

modern, global economy and we need to be able to engage with it and we

cannot do it being run by Brussels. A politician without ambition! I

might have to go and lie down. Thank you.

Now, it's easy for us to get sentimental about the past here on

This Week, for those free-wheelin' days, before everything got so

serious. Before Molly the dog refused to share a dressing room

with Alan, Alan refused to share his shirts with Michael, and

Michael refused to share any information about exactly what he

gets up to on the 12.09 milk train for Auchenshuggle. What happens in

Crewe stays in Crewe, eh, Michael! So that's why we've decided to hark

back to a more innocent time and put nostalgia in this week's

The good old days. Were they? Our very own Cockney street urchin Alan

Johnson has published a childhood memoir. But don't expect a rose-

tinted reflection. It is a tale of growing up the hard way in the Bad

Land slums of post-war London. Gangs, racism, brutal poverty. It

is a wonder he turned out such a cheeky chappie. So, are we right to

hark back to the past? Is the rise of UKIP a political pranked for a

lost world of blazers, ties and gin-and-tonic at the golf club,

when an honest chap could go to a strip club with his head held high?

A BBC drama tells a starker tale of rural poverty during the Great War,

proving Downton Abbey's nostalgic airs and graces are not the only

foreign country where they do things differently. And, as we

reached the ripe old age of 10, we hark back to a simpler age, when

Blue Nun was affordable and Michael's shirts were bearable. Of

course, some things are best left Christine, his nostalgia good or

bad? Nostalgia is wonderful. When you get to my age you have to save

it. When you get to our age. Thank you. I will not embarrass you by

saying where we met, but we met in 1969-1970. And you were standing

against mine now has done for a particular post. Could we go back

to nostalgia? Although I was going out with my husband, I voted for

you because I thought he was too right wing. You were right, he was

too right wing. Tell me, is there a bit of nostalgia used as political

propaganda. You are a big supporter of UKIP. There is nostalgia for a

bygone Britain in UKIP, isn't there? Absolutely not. UKIP is the

future, not the past. It is not about what Britain used to be but

about what Britain can be again. I could not agree with you less.

Unlike when you voted for me. Decades ago! Alan, you brought out

your memoirs. People can sometimes be nostalgic for the 1950s. Any

time we feel that, we should read your book. Absolutely. Published on

May 9th, incidentally, and in all good bookshops. Part of what I was

trying to portray was this idea that the 1950s was an age of

peaceful innocence and nothing could be further from the truth.

Very brutal days, very brutal in terms of the West Indian community

that came into Notting Hill, the race riots. I was brought up in

Notting Hill, and it was not a salubrious place to be. We did not

see anything of Hugh Grant. So it is not nostalgia. It is a potent

political force, and I think, despite Christine's charming

denials, I think UKIP, the age when you can go back to the time of

smoking in pubs, back to the time when we did not have large levels

of immigration, it is a policy based to a great extent on harking

for a past that might never have been. Your train journeys are quite

nostalgic, aren't they? Absolutely. And also never-ending. We hope not.

I make my living partly out of nostalgia. People do love to hark

back. This country has an enormous number of heritage lines, vastly

more than any other country, and people spend their weekends

reviving locomotives and going out and taking journeys on steam trains.

They love it. It is undoubtedly true that as we get older,

inevitably you get more nostalgic. Of course, because there is far

less ahead of you. Nostalgia is the bigger part of your life than the

future at our age. I would not want to live now without things like the

mobile phone and the internet, but I am honestly very glad that my

childhood was without all of that stuff. Kids nowadays, they can look

back and there is an entire record, every second of their life, on the

mobile phone... If we want to look at pictures of our childhood, we

have to go through yellowing pictures. I cherish them. Even

though you had a tough upbringing, as you were writing the book and it

brought back memories, I bet there was a tinge of nostalgia. Of course.

Nostalgia in the sense of remembering events and wanting to...

I lived close to Crystal Palace. I would love to go back to the 1920s

and see the Crystal Palace before it burned down. That kind of

nostalgia is natural. You did not burn it down? It was not me. It is

the only thing that keeps you sane, the fact that you think you lived

in the best time. Otherwise your life is wrecked. Christine Hamilton.

That's your lot for tonight folks. But not for us, because we're

ditching our audience, before they storm the stage for autographs from

Alan and kisses from Michael, and heading straight on over to the

aftershow at Annabel's. And we need to get a move on. The clock on

Charles Clarke's mini cab is ticking over already, and you know

how grumpy he gets if you keep him waiting. So we leave you tonight

with music and pictures to delight. Nighty-night. Don't let Lucinda

# Saved me, save me # Why are you moaning all the time?

# Because I'm not the one to pick up the pieces in your life

# Easy, take it easy # I'm not the cause of your