Browse content similar to 13/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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As spring sunshine finally makes an appearance, we try to look Tributes | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
have been pouring in after the sad and untimely death of union leader | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
Bob Crow, so what will his legacy be? Journalist and left wing | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
activist Owen Jones thinks the future for the trade union movement | :00:27. | :00:36. | |
is bright. Bob Crowe got a lot of stick for taking holidays in the | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
sun, but he wanted to make sure it wasn't just sunshine for the rich. | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
Ed Miliband hopes the sun is shining on his chances of re-election after | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
he rules out holding an automatic EU referendum. But will the voters warm | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
to his policy on Europe? The Spectator's Isabel Hardman basks in | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
the Westminster sunshine. When the sun is out, there is nothing quite | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
like messing about on the river. But back in Westminster, is Ed | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
Miliband's Europe Holocene or let's see? | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
And here comes the Sol, as we shine a light on some inconvenient truths. | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
Former footballer Sol Campbell refuses to live under a cloud. | :01:13. | :01:21. | |
Believe it or not, this is not a real field. I am not supposed to | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
tell you that. Bring me sunshine, bring me | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
laughter, bring me This Week. Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week, a | :01:27. | :01:43. | |
week when Nick Clegg, in a fit of patriotic twaddle, listed | :01:44. | :01:44. | |
flip-flops, originating in ancient Egypy circa 4000 BC, among those | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
things that made him proud to be British. Flip-flops! Who would have | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
thunk it, for a Lib Dem? What happened to sandals? But after the | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
party's flip-flops on tuition fees, deficit cutting and VAT increases, | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
not to mention a referendum on Europe, flip-flops are the Lib Dem | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
footwear of choice these days. No doubt compulsory beard shaving and | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
bacon and eggs for breakfast instead of muesli can't be far behind. It | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
was also the week when our self-styled ethical bank, the Co-op, | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
revealed that despite record ?2 billion losses and 5,000 job cuts, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
it had agreed to pay its new boss ?3.6 million, which rather took him | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
out of ethics and propelled him into greedy, money-grabbing, fat cat | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
country. The embarrassed bank then took a leaf out of Cleggover's | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
proud-to-be-British playbook, and flip-flopped by accepting his | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
resignation. The new boss will be paid in Co-op stamps, won't enjoy a | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
divi but will be entitled to a free pair of flip-flops every second | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
year, courtesy of the Lib Dems, who pointedly didn't name the Co-op as | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
one of their favourite things. Bet they would've done before it gave | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
ethics a bad name. And, no, the Reverend Flowers can't apply for his | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
old job back. Speaking of those who couldn't tell their flips from their | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
flops, even though they've had more than their fair share of the latter, | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two men who have both been invited | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
to spend the weekend with Vince Cable and his wife, and couldn't | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
think of anything worse. Think of the them as the George Osborne and | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
Mrs George Osborne of late night political chat. I speak, of course, | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson and #sadmanonatrain Michael | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
"Chatanooga" Portillo. Michael, your moment of the week? Well, our Prime | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
Minister has been in Israel where he made a good speech which was quite | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
well received. But he felt obliged to urge the Israelis to make a peace | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
settlement with their Arab neighbours, the Palestinians, and | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
this is obviously completely out of the question. Mr Netanyahu is not | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
interested in the two state solution, not even interested in | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
stopping building settlements on Arab territory, disputed territory. | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
Mahmoud Abbas does not represent the sort of leader you could do a deal | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
with anyway. I think for the Prime Minister to go there and urge a | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
peace process is at best platitudinous and at worst a sign of | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
a country that still thinks of itself as being a great power. We | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
have to get used to the idea that we are not a great power and weak do | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
not have to go around the world is telling everyone what they should be | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
doing. The public sector review bodies made their recommendation | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
today, 1%. I think there has been an extraordinary acceptance among | :04:36. | :04:36. | |
public sector workers over the last few dear Asch macro years that in | :04:37. | :04:45. | |
the age of austerity things have to be reined in. But Jeremy Hunt has | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
said he will not implement it for a whole group of workers on | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
increments. I think this is a huge mistake. Increments are what | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
management want because instead of getting straight onto maximum pay, | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
you get there gradually over time. To say these people cannot have | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
their 1% increase because they will get an incremental increase is to | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
send the message that these increments, that actually work more | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
for management and the tax payer than for the workers, are something | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
trade unions will be wanting to get rid of. I think it is a big mistake. | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
And for the cost of it, given so many managers have been re-recruited | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
having been given big pay-outs to leave the NHS, it will cause a huge | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
stink for a little amount of money. I have some quick moments that add | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
up to something important. The Kremlin has closed all non-Vladimir | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
Putin media, or taken it over. There is only one message coming out now, | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
and that is that the Ukraine has been taken over by fascist | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
revolutionaries and Russian speakers are now in jeopardy. And the Russian | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
army has begun new manoeuvres on the Russian border. When you add up all | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
of that, this crisis is not over yet. | :05:58. | :05:59. | |
Many kind words were said this week about union leader Bob Crow, who | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
suddenly passed away at the age of only 52. They weren't words he often | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
heard when he was alive, especially when his militancy led to London | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
commuters or the country's rail travellers being inconvenienced by | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
industrial disruption. But there was general agreement that he was good | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
for his members, securing them pay and conditions others could only | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
dream of. So when public sector workers continue to face a real | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
terms cut in their wages, should hard-working people who want to get | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
on, get on and join a union? We turned to journalist and left wing | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
activist Owen Jones. This is his take of the week. | :06:32. | :06:54. | |
The news about trade union leader Bob Crow this week shows that it | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
takes a death for the establishment to say anything kind about the | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
unions. Such is his legacy that people have been coming into this | :07:05. | :07:12. | |
shop and asking for a Bob Crow cap. But Bob Crow's legacy went further | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
than pushing up the sales of these. He was a man who took on the | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
politics of envy. The media used to tell low paid workers, you are | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
getting paid poverty workers but look how much the RMT workers are | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
getting and they have the cheek to go on strike. His message was | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
simple. You should be dragged up to our level, he told them, not asked | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
down to yours. A race to the top, not a race to the bottom. The unions | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
are Britain's biggest democratic movement, representing over 6 | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
million workers from supermarket checkout workers to rubbish bin | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
collectors, call centre workers to teachers, pillars of any decent | :07:51. | :07:59. | |
society. Unions founded the Labour Party to | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
give workers a political voice, but now even the party leaders seem | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
often embarrassed about being linked to them. The Tories meanwhile are | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
bankrolled by hedge fund managers, bankers, legal loan sharks. But the | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
media barely even blinks. We need trade unions more than ever. We are | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
living through the longest fall in workers' wages since Queen Victoria | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
sat on the throne. We live in a country where most people in poverty | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
are in work, and we have an army of zero hours contract workers. Here is | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
how we can remember Bob Crow. First, join a union. Secondly, the unions | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
can learn from his determination and courage. Bob Crow was demonised in | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
large part because he won. But he showed that other workers, with a | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
bit of backbone, can win as well. I will doff my cap to that. | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
And from Laird London Hatter's Emporium in Covent Garden to our own | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
little mad hatter's emporium here in the heart of Westminster, Owen Jones | :09:06. | :09:17. | |
comes cap in hand. Well come back. Ouch! Michael, do the unions, as we | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
have known them, have much of a role in the 21st-century? No, they do | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
not. I thought that peace was amusingly contrary. He talked about | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
representing 6 million people, but they used to represent 11 million | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
people. 13 million, thank you. There has been a massive decline because | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
people have been disillusioned by trade unions. They have done | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
enormous amounts of damage. It is interesting that you talk about the | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
way in which the living conditions of RMT members have been improved. | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
This was true of the miners in the 1970s. The miners were the | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
aristocracy, getting vast amounts of money. What was the result of that? | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
A policy by the employers and the government to close the coalmines, | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
so there are none left. The same is happening in the London Underground. | :10:10. | :10:11. | |
Because they are paid so much there is a policy of closing ticket | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
offices, and going to unmanned trains. These victories that are | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
claimed, where workers get lots of money, they are temporary victories. | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
The real problem with trade unions is that they are interested in their | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
members, not wider society. So the interests of the members, as Bob | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
Crow saw it, could lead to a strike to close down the underground | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
system, could do great damage to the economy, could inconvenience | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
thousands of commuters, could do damage to unemployed people, because | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
trade unions are only interested in people who are employed, because | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
they pay subs. Firstly, ticket office collectors are not | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
represented by the RMT. But the point is that if we look at workers | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
across the country at the moment, we live in a country where most people | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
in poverty are in work. They get up in the morning, they struggle, and | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
they earn their poverty. We have millions of workers choosing between | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
heating their homes and feeding their kids. We have a situation with | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
zero hours contracts which is like a return to the Victorian era, where | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
dockers would march to the yard and stick up their hand hoping to get | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
work. These days, workers get a text message at 6am telling them if they | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
have any hours on that day. What Bob Crow's model was, it was quite | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
specific to the London Underground, you are right. It is harder often to | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
unionise other workplaces. The reason we have had this decline in | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
trade unions is not disillusionment. The polls show that those out of | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
unions often have a favourable view of trade unions. It is the do with | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
the disappearance of traditional industries, with communities based | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
around steelworks, factories, mines, a shift to a different form of | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
economy. For example, today, as many people work in call centres as used | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
to work in the mines. Retail is the second biggest employer in the | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
country. Because there is such a big turnover in workers, it is often | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
hard to unionise. What trade unions need to do, and I am not someone to | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
defend the status quo, despite the odds against trades unions, is to | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
adapt to the conditions, find new ways of organising, not just in the | :12:23. | :12:24. | |
workplace but also in the wider community. Might I ask a question? | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
Do you not see any connection between the fact that the industries | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
that were heavily unionised, where there were many members, have been | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
closed down, and the fact that they were unionised? Do you not see the | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
connection, for example in the mining industry? I think that is a | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
revisionist view of what happened in the mines, to be frank. We saw a | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
range of industries which disappeared in the 80s. If we want | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
to go over what your government did, we can look at the way the pound was | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
increased, to make imports competitive. Should the unions | :12:59. | :13:07. | |
become more militant? Not necessarily. I am surprised that | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
Michael's analysis. The couple of weeks ago he was telling us one of | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
the reasons why he did not get support to get the last track of the | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
Conservative leadership was because he did not believe there needed to | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
be more union legislation. I was hoping there would be a right of | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
centre view about the importance of trade Unions, as there is | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
practically everywhere in Europe. They are an essential part of a | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
mature democracy. The militancy bit, think about Bob Crow, whose | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
membership did increase. The railways are growing, and more | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
people are using railways, and it was unionised. The thing about Bob | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
Crow, he was a negotiator. He did not believe that the purpose of | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
trade unions was to be used as cannon fodder in a class war. He | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
believed in getting a good deal for his members. Militancy is often | :13:58. | :14:05. | |
described as having a strike ballot. Michael's government introduced laws | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
that actually trade union negotiators have used rather well. | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
You need a ballot now before a strike. I do not disagree with that. | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
But the fact that you do that shows that the membership actually feel | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
strongly about this issue, and gives the negotiator, Bob Crow and many | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
others around the country, a great deal of power. Most of them don't | :14:25. | :14:33. | |
vote. Can I respond to that? Let's change the law. You don't deny that | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
most of them don't vote. I am going to come up with a solution, which is | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
workplace -based balloting. You will not get large numbers of people | :14:47. | :14:48. | |
voting when you rely on people having to send back a letter to | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
vote. It is quite a simple change to the law and I don't know why the | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
government don't do it. Surely militancy only works when, like Bob | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
Crow, you control a public sector monopoly and can hold the people to | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
ransom. Most unions don't have that power. Honestly, the way you speak | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
about unions! I don't accept the words you are using, militancy, | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
holding people to ransom. Obviously it is easier in certain sectors to | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
win games and concessions. Nonetheless, if I think of other | :15:21. | :15:29. | |
examples, electricity went on strike last year against powerful BT, they | :15:30. | :15:31. | |
didn't have a monopoly. But they won. You have picked the one public | :15:32. | :15:39. | |
private sector strike where they won. They really won at Grangemouth, | :15:40. | :15:50. | |
didn't they? The electricians are not militants, for a start. The RMT | :15:51. | :16:05. | |
was. It does not work forever either. The point Michael made is | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
that miners tried to hold his Government to ran some. They were | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
equal in who they held to ran some. Look at that - they don't exist any | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
more. You are blaming the miners for a concerted attempt to take on a | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
mining industry... I think you will find it was an attempt by Scargill | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
to take on Thatcher's Government. They took on the Labour Government | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
too Do you want me to answer? Carry on! What happened in that particular | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
case, in the miner's dispute, is in 1974 they helped to take done | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
Heath's Government. It was admitted that closure | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
programme went too far. He hated Heath more than the miners. | :16:59. | :17:06. | |
Bob Crow was famous for his militancy. That is why he did so | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
well for the workers. Do He was no or more less militant... There were | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
a lot more strikes in his region. You were right on the first one - | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
there were a lot of ballots. How many led to a strike? That | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
strengthened his hand in negotiation. Did you agree with | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
Owen, that many of the Labour leaders today seem embarrassed to be | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
linked to the unions? I am not embarrassed by the trade unions. He | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
did not have you in mind! You said yourself, to quote you, | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
sometimes they are treated like an embarrassing relative... That was of | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
Monks. That can sometimes be the case. I accept that. The link is not | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
the unions writing out a shopping list, giving it to a Labour | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
Government, saying carry that out I doesn't work like that. What strike | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
can you imagine the Labour leadership supporting? No many. What | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
strikes would I suppose? Quite a few. One point you have to address. | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
It came out and that is that real wages have now been in decline in | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
this country for over ten years. Wages now account for a smaller | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
percentage of GDP than almost at any time since records began. Profits | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
account for a bigger percentage at any time. With the not - it could be | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
done in Owen's way or another way. Is there not a need for a | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
rebalancing to see pay beginning to rise again for average and | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
below-average workers? I am very unhappy about growing inequality in | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
society. I fear if what happens is some trade unions manage to get more | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
for their members, what that will mean is fewer will be ememployed. -- | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
employed. Their interest is in the membership. They are not concerned | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
about unemployed people. That is not true. . Throughout the north. This | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
happened under new Labour and this Government. People were forced into | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
in-work benefits. They were forced to take on, depend on cheap credit. | :19:24. | :19:31. | |
It sucked demand out of the economy. Let's have strong trade unions to | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
secure good pay rises for all workers. Like Norway, like Finland - | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
more equal. Be in the EU and have labour, you | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
are bound to have wages in this country... It has not happened in | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
other countries. It does coincide with the period we've been in a | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
Labour Party. I like interruptions. It's late. It | :20:01. | :20:09. | |
is Nigel Farage-late! I know what I mean. If you believe the rumours, | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
vigorously denied by all parties involved - the BBC lawyers have told | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
me to underline! Stick with us all the same, waiting is footballer Sol | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
Campbell, here to talk. He will talk about the inconvenient truths we | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
would rather not face up to. Speaking of which, though we love to | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
admit it, most of the viewers can not string a sentence together. | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
And of course, if you don't have access to the internet, just pick up | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
a pen and write tows. We promise to keep everything 100% confidential. | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
Even if your handwriting is not readable. We do love a letter. We | :20:52. | :21:01. | |
read something this week that alarmed us - a Great White shark is | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
heading right to the UK. So we sent Isabel Hardman down to the Thames to | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
keep a look-out. Here is a round-up of the week. | :21:11. | :21:29. | |
Britain is on shark-alert. A Great White, called Lydia, is crossing the | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
Atlantic. Some think she could head for these shores. At least in this | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
place, she'll be in good company. I am going to need a bigger boat! | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
Look, there's a man-eater! The Great White! It's there! | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
Oh, don't listen to him! Some people think that dear old Liz is on her | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
way to the Mediterranean. Soil spoits! It would not be surprising. | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
European waters are dangerous if you are a British politician. Yesterday, | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
Ed Miliband cautiously dipped his toes in the water, but decided no t | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
to take the plunge. The next Labour Government will legislate for a new | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
lock. Not simply a new referendum on any treaty change, transferring | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
transfer of powers, because there have been too many referenda like | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
that in other countries which have been ignored. | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
Ed's supporters are claiming this is a brilliant bit of fly fishing, | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
neither in or out of the water. This is what the Tories call a fudge. The | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
PM, who was out of the country this week, on a visit to Israel, is by | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
all accounts happy to put some clear blue water tweern the two parties | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
and keep the snappers at bay. There'll not be a referendum. The | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
only way to get an in/out referendum and reform in Europe - the only way | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
to get that is to have the Conservatives in Government. Still, | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
Dave shouldn't be too pleased, because Ed Miliband clearly figures | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
that the promise of a referendum will not play very big at the next | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
general election and he can win without one. But one man who was all | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
smiles this week was the Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg. When | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
Dave is away, he gets the swimming pool to himself. He was so happy, he | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
couldn't help just telling us about everything that he loves. I love | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
Britain. I love it for all its | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
contradictions. I love the telephone - the steam engine - the jet engine | :23:41. | :23:50. | |
- the World Wide Web, theatre. I shipping forecast. T-shirt and | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
flip-flops, even when it is cold. Football fans obsessed with the | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
Premier League. A cup of tea. Nick Clegg says he's going to go on and | :24:03. | :24:11. | |
on and on. The predators are circling the Westminster goldfish | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
bowl, seeing what will happen after 2015. Danny Alexander and Cable are | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
not ready to bite. She does not want him to get mauled | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
like Nick. Who incidentally, she says she is quite a fan of. | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
But even that didn't get Clegg down because next, he got to play the | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
boss at PMQs. He and Harman traded insults about | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
hospital closures, until both sides realised an old fashioned feeding | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
frenzy would be more fun. On this side of the House we are trying to | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
sort out the mess they created F they will not take any | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
responsibility or express any apology, why should we take any of | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
the questions seriously at all? With his broken promises and prosuring, | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
doesn't he realise that he might love Britain, but Britain does not | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
love him back. The bottom of the ocean for that gag, Harriet Harman! | :25:15. | :25:24. | |
# Sail away # Sail away | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
# Sail At the end of the day, it is tough | :25:28. | :25:35. | |
making a living from the bottom of the ocean. Ask Alex Salmond. This | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
week there was a rise in Scotland's spending deficit, not helped by | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
falling North Sea revenues. This week saw the return of a big fish, | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
who swam silently into the referendum debate. We have the "yes" | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
camp, the "no" camp and the Gordon Brown campaign. | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
Yes - he still cannot share the shallows with anyone else. | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
If there is a partnership between the nations of the United Kingdom in | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
the future, then we have to find a way of working together again. | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
We cannot have this permanent standoff between a Scottish | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
Government and the rest of the UK. A permanent standoff! What was he | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
thinking? Number 11. Still waters run deep, you know! There she is, | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
the Great White. The shark! Where? I've got a big one here! Oh! It is a | :26:27. | :26:51. | |
bit of a tidleer, actually. -- tidler, perhaps we didn't need a | :26:52. | :26:59. | |
bigger boat, after all! Miranda joins us. Who writeds this drive | :27:00. | :27:09. | |
have for him? There -- who drives this for him? There is an urge by | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
many on the left of politics to say why should the right own patriotism? | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
You end up with these slightly contrived, lyrical... Slightly! Love | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
letters to the nation. One of the reason is you make a fool of | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
yourself when youtry it. It happens -- when you try it. It happened at a | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
Spring Conference in York. Why doesn't somebody take him aside and | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
say, don't say this - you'll look stupid? The thing is, when you work | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
for a political leader, my feeling is you probably do need somebody in | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
the room - which used to be my role when I worked for Paddy Ashdown - | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
with their head in their hands, predicting disaster at every turn. | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
Would you have taken it from his hand and ripped it out? I would have | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
taken out flip-flops and any reference to footwear! | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
On his performance on PMQs, there seems to be a real sense of | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
animosity between Mr Clegg and the Labour backbenchers - is that right? | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
I think it is. All the way along, during this coalition between the | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
Tories and the Lib Demes, there's been a slightly weird, romantic | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
background narrative that the Lib Demes would find it easier being in | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
Government with the Labour Party. The bad blood between Labour and the | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
Lib Demes is quite serious, I think, from time to time. There's no love | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
lost. Certainly they seem to be enjoying having a go at each other. | :28:54. | :29:02. | |
It is what happens locally. It is the focus leaflets going through the | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
door that are just outrageous. It is far more outrageous than | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
anything the Labour Party would produce. So, you have these battles | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
for local of elections and then you come into Parliament. If you take | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
free school meals. Hull, in my constituency, introduced free school | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
meals ten years ago. First place to do it anywhere in the country. The | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
administration changed to Lib Demes - they got rid of it. Now they are | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
saying the best thing in the world is free school meals. Are you | :29:37. | :29:46. | |
expecting consistency? Exactly! If there is animosity, there is an | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
issue in which you could not get a slip of paper between you and that | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
is Labour has the same policy on the European referendum as the Lib | :29:55. | :29:56. | |
Demes. It is very similar. I am very | :29:57. | :30:09. | |
pleased about that. When Cameron made that speech 13 months ago, I | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
thought that was a misjudgement from a Prime Minister who had been pushed | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
by backbenchers. Only a while before he voted against a proposition | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
saying we needed an in-out referendum now. What Ed Miliband has | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
done, quite elegantly, is to make absolutely clear that actually it is | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
unlikely to the extent of being totally improbable that there will | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
be an in-out referendum. But that does not mean we are against | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
referendums. We had one for Scottish Parliament, Welsh devolution, London | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
mayor, a referendum on the European Community, the common market, in | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
1975. So it made sense to say, unless there is a change, and in | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
that case it won't be about the actual detail of the change, it will | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
be an in-out referendum. In effect, that is what it would be. Is it an | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
elegant change in labour policy? Yes. I can't imagine why it took 13 | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
months. I can't imagine why anybody in the Labour Party would argue for | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
Labour Party to promise an in-out referendum in 2017. Ed Miliband does | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
not believe in leaving the European Union. Why would he risked his | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
premiership to have a referendum he does not believe in? The only reason | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
the question of 2017 has come up is because, as Allen has said, 13 | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
months ago, the Prime Minister thought it was a way to buy off the | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
backbenchers. So this is a solution to a Conservative Party problem with | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
backbenchers, and with UKIP. But those are not problems that Labour | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
has. I can't imagine why people like Ed Balls ever thought it was a good | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
idea. I can't understand why does a treaty change have two trigger an | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
in-out referendum? Why doesn't a treaty change, which is shorthand | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
for saying that some more powers would be moved from the UK to | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
Brussels, why don't you just have a referendum on the treaty change? | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
Because there is this feeling that several decades have passed since | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
the nation got the chance to approve the relationship. If you can improve | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
the relationship in Britain's favour, you should settle the matter | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
once and for all. To have a referendum on the detail... I take | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
your point but if you went to the British public and said we have a | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
referendum and we want to focus on these clauses in the Treaty of Rome | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
that have changed, in effect it would be about in or out of the | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
European Union. You might as well admit that, yes. I don't see that. | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
Many other countries have had referendums on treaties and the | :32:50. | :32:51. | |
result has been that if they voted the wrong way from the European | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
Union's point of view, they were made to vote again until they got it | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
right. Supposing you do not like the treaty change? Supposing you do not | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
like the powers that a future government has agreed will be moved | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
to Brussels but you don't want to leave the European Union? How do you | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
vote? That is an interesting point. That is why business has welcomed | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
the Labour change of position on the referendum. How do you vote? What | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
choice are you giving me then? Do you have three questions on the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
paper? You are into the Scottish debate about the questions. You are | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
right, the position is illogical. I worry that whatever referendum we | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
have we will have a yes vote. David Cameron believes he can persuade the | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
British people to vote yes and I think he is right. I think the | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
British are too scared to leave. But they yes vote would then be regarded | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
as an affirmation by the British people of their European destiny. | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
That is a disaster. We are in a perfect position at the moment, in | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
the European but semidetached members, not in the euro zone where | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
the disasters are happening. We do not need to change this. But if we | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
have an affirmation that our future is a European destiny, then the | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
whole thing about joining the euro will come back. I thought of the | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
answer. There would not be a treaty change about unanimity. There cannot | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
be. The British government would have to agree, which is why Ed | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
Miliband will not have a referendum, because they cannot agree to a | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
treaty change that will allow more powerful Brussels. Psion ACPO the | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
government would be recommending yes. I thought your point was what | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
happens if there is a treaty change that we do not disagree with. How do | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
you vote if you don't like the treaty change but you don't want to | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
leave? Doesn't this work to the advantage of the Tories, because | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
whenever you say to Nigel Farage, if you vote UKIP and don't get the | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
Tories, you won't get a referendum. He has always said that Ed Miliband | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
will come out for a referendum, too. That has shot his Fox now. The | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
Tories can now say, if you want an in-out referendum, there is only one | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
party. They could do that. One of their most important supporters, | :35:14. | :35:15. | |
Lord Ashcroft, was warning them today not to fall into the trap that | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
Labour has set. What you don't want to do is what David Cameron famously | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
called banging on about Europe. Nobody in the Tory party ever | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
listens to Lord Ashcroft. Well, possibly they should. That may well | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
be true. If the other parties have it settled in a way that... In the | :35:38. | :35:45. | |
end, are there many votes to be had by saying, as the Tories will, we | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
will give you an in-out referendum? I think not enough. Firstly, it is | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
not top of most people's agenda. Secondly, you have to believe two | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
things. Not only that the Tory party as the any party to vote for for | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
this, but that they will win an overall majority and be in a | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
position to implement it. That is a big thing to believe before | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
breakfast. Now, not many people know this, but | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
our self-styled Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, is actually | :36:15. | :36:16. | |
mixed race, half British, half Dutch. Earlier this week, he listed | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
what makes him proud to be half British. The NHS, the BBC, natch, | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
the shipping forecast, cups of tea, Prince George, flag-waving, and | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
queueing. Next week he's promised to reveal what makes him proud to be | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
half Dutch. So, being a Liberal Democrat, expect clogs, cannabis | :36:33. | :36:34. | |
cafes, the colour orange, Amsterdam's red light district and | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
incredibly cheap university tuition fees that are now attracting British | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
students in record numbers. On second thoughts, maybe he should | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
keep that last one to himself, which is why we've decided to put | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
inconvenient truths in this week's Spotlight. | :36:51. | :37:09. | |
Freshfaced Immigration Minister James Brokenshire thought he was off | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
to a good start by highlighting the inconvenient truth that drives the | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
need for cheap immigrant labour. For too long, the benefits of | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
immigration went to employers who wanted an easy supply of cheap | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
labour, or to the wealthy metropolitan elite who wanted cheap | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
trades men and services. It turned out the wealthy metropolitan elite | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
he criticised included many members of the Cabinet, and even the Prime | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
Minister and his wife. So what are the big truths that get little | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
discussion? Sol Campbell has been tackling the inconvenient truth of | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
racism in football, revealing the abuse he received from supporters, | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
and how attitudes to race possibly hindered his career. I think if I | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
was white, definitely my chances of being captain would have been | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
enhanced. The Metropolitan Police are dealing with harsh accusations, | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
too, following the shocking findings in the Ellison Review. Is the | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
inconvenient truth that those in most need of policing are the police | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
themselves, or are we being unfair? John Humphrys might say so. The BBC | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
likes to be seen as a beacon of impartiality but he claimed this | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
week that for many years the corporation had a broadly liberal | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
bias. Whether in politics, journalism or sport, there are | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
always unspoken issues. Is it because these things are not worthy | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
of discussion, or can we simply not handle the truth? Sol Campbell joins | :38:39. | :38:49. | |
us. Welcome to the programme. Is it an inconvenient truth that football | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
is riddled with racism and homophobia? I think we have come a | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
long way, especially with the racial side. Many clubs are doing | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
fantastic. The FA and the Premier League are doing some stellar staff. | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
I think we have come along way. Better than in your day. For sure. | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
My book reflects what happens to me and what I had to go through. The | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
homophobia aside, generally, has further to go. I don't think we are | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
completely ready for that. They say may be the clubs are ready but on | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
the terraces, I don't think we are ready for that. But, you know, I | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
think it is a work in progress. Is there not still a tendency by | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
football authorities to shove this under the carpet? Not just British | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
football authorities, but sometimes international ones, to. When it | :39:42. | :39:49. | |
comes to the racial side, yes, they have not find some clubs and players | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
enough. Yes, you can say is weeping it under the carpet, a slap on the | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
wrist with petty fines. That side has to change. If you want to really | :39:58. | :40:06. | |
make a stand, I think fines, but also taking points off. Once the | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
points start coming off, maybe internationally or at club level, | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
people start to wake up. It hits the pocket. Also, you want your team or | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
country to qualify. Has the culture in the locker room changed among the | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
players? I think it has, yes. People have to understand. Sometimes people | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
might say stuff in corners, and maybe a couple of players are not | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
involved in that. But that will always go on. I think that goes on | :40:39. | :40:47. | |
in most industries. For stating what many people agree is the obvious, | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
you have come in for a bit of abuse. Doesn't that suggest there is still | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
something wrong? There is something wrong. I am reflecting on what has | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
happened to me. There is maybe an undercurrent, maybe subconsciously | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
sometimes, they do not actually know they are doing it. For instance, you | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
have the FA, who had a football commission recently put together. | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
The first committee, the BBC came to me and said, what is wrong with | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
this? The first thing which was staring at me was that there were no | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
women and no one of Black origin. The BBC asked me to say something | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
about it and I did. It got changed promptly, but for me, the train has | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
gone and you are left at the platform. They rectified it, but it | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
is almost a token thing. It is never the first thing. If you wanted to | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
make a big statement, you would have said, let's get an ex-Black | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
footballer who has done well and put him first, or a woman. And build | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
from there. Do you think, the line was always that it was bad but it is | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
getting better and there is some way to go? It was terrible and it is | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
getting better. In football, as in so many other spheres of life, you | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
get a change on the shop floor, at the coal face, and it takes a long | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
time to up to the top. There are now 25%, a quarter of football league | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
players in all four divisions who are black. But there is one black | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
manager. It takes a long time for that to change around. That is your | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
point, I guess, in terms of captain, manager positions, | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
positions of leadership. Sometimes the diversity is elsewhere and it | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
does not filter through. That has been true of American football as | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
well, where there was a lack of black quarterbacks. Now we see that | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
if you have a black quarterback you can win the Super Bowl, but it took | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
a big push, and a lot of people arguing to make it happen. You are | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
not a football fan but you have something to say. The subject is | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
inconvenient truths. I am reflecting that a few weeks ago we were | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
debating whether we should be boycotting Sochi, because the | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
Russians supposedly had a law which discouraged teaching homosexuality | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
in schools. Had we been staging the World Cup, I wonder if the Russians | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
might have said, giving your record of homophobia in football, is this | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
somewhere we ought to boycott? I think some humility because of | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
inconvenient truths would be right and fitting. You cannot compare our | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
records to the current situation in Russia on homophobia. It is almost a | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
state policy there. I still think we ought to be very modest about it, | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
partly because it persists in football, in the Church of England, | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
and partly because the changes in this country have been very recent. | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
If you were now in contention for the England captaincy, do you think | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
you would be more likely to get it now? Having spoken out, probably | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
not. I mean, do you think things have changed enough rest and Mark I | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
hope so. If someone like me comes around, my stature, record and | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
quality performances year after year, in my mid 20s, hopefully the | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
FA would look upon, maybe sometimes the nation would look upon and the | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
media would get behind someone like that. Good luck with the book. | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
That's your lot for tonight, but not for us, because it's Wealthy | :44:24. | :44:25. | |
Metropolitan Elite night at Lou Lou's, which means the Lithuanian | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
baby-sitters of Cabinet ministers will be stuck at home with little | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
Jemima and Peregrine while they get to dance round their red boxes until | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
the wee small hours. But we leave you tonight with the gathering | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
political storm. As UKIP secure their position in the polls, the | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
party now faces the kind of scrutiny other major parties take for | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
granted. Nigel dismisses many of the accusations levelled at him and the | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
party, but things just got a lot more political for the anti-politics | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
party. Nighty-night. Don't let the clear and outright denial of any | :44:57. | :44:58. | |
wrongdoing bite. | :44:59. | :45:01. |