01/05/2014 This Week

Tonight on This Week, as TV classic Dad's Army is being remade for the

big screen, we parade a Westminster Dad's Army on our very small screen.

The three main party leaders are under threat, not from Nazis, but

from Nigel and his UKIP army. Doing her bit for This Week's Home

Guard, former Tory and now UKIP foot soldier Christine Hamilton. Nigel's

army is on the march, and the enemy, they don't like it up them.

As former army officer and Tory MP Patrick Mercer resigns after being

found guilty of a cash for questions scandal, some are accusing General

Farage of cowardice for not fighting the by-election. Sergeant Maguire

and his men assess the week's political skirmishes. Colonel

Mercer's desertion has left captain Cameron fighting on the home front

as well as in Europe. But the boys from Westminster on CR here. Don't

panic. We are doomed. Captain Mainwaring and his men were

used to feeling like fools but when does a defeat turn into a

humiliation? Cricket legend Henry Blofeld, is giving the orders. I am

afraid, Andrew, we are doomed. Yes, doomed.

Don't panic, Mr Portillo. You stupid boy.

Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week, and for viewers lacking in

spirituality, if not spirits, welcome to a Christian country. For,

lo, that is what our godly Prime Minister, Call-Me-Dave, believes we

are, and the evidence for which is all around us. Yes, church

attendance may be bombing but Christian charity is booming, with a

growing number of the population congregating at church-run food

banks, where folks drop on their knees and pray for spaghetti hoops

to deliver them from their temptation. The feeding of the 5000

has become the feeding of the 913,000 in the past 12 months alone.

Hallelujah, praise the tinned goods! And if this wasn't enough to confirm

your faith, who can doubt that He has now come amongst us, once again

to show us the error of our heathen ways, to lead us out of European

darkness and deliver us from the evil Van Rumpy-Pumpy of Brussels, a

man who can walk on water and then change it into beer for his devoted

disciples. The way, the truth, and the life. No-one comes to an EU

referendum except through Him. Yes, it's Nigel Farage, Superstar, walks

like a woman and he wears a bra. Actually, I made that bit up, but it

won't matter. Nothing sticks to him. Speaking of those with a political

Messiah complex, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two know-it-alls

whom no-one can understand. Think of them as the Marlon Brando and

Jamaica Inn of late night political mumbling. I speak, of course, of

#sadmanonatrain, Michael Portillo, and back by absolutely no public

demand whatsoever, #baffled, Diane Aboott.

Good evening to you both. Good evening, Andrew. Your moment of the

week. It has been said the arrest of Gerry Adams is a matter of dark

policing. I think it is unlikely to be that. I think it is a symptom of

an unresolved issue. Since the time of the Good Friday agreement

onwards, we have never really dealt with what we are going to do about

cases, things that happened a very long time ago, which have not yet

been brought to justice. And it really creates a huge dilemma. On

the one hand you can understand that in the horrific case of the crime,

the murder of Jean McConville, the family is keen to have truth and

justice, on the other hand, if justice brings into its ambit some

of the leading figures of the peace process, it may threaten the peace

process itself. And so it appears that at some level, at some point,

we may have to decide that what we want is certainly the truth but not

necessarily justice. Interesting. It is a huge development and as yet, a

lot still to go. Diane. I was interested into Riz a's statement on

stop and search. You contributed in Parliament. She had a big fight with

Number Ten. It was stopped and searched that caused the 1981

Brixton riot. It is a question of long-standing concern. If you are

black in certain parts of London you are 39 times more likely to be

stopped, and you only get 9% of arrests from these, mostly for small

quantities of cannabis. Did you think you would be listening to a

Tory Home Secretary saying this? Never, and I think she should get

some credit for it. Now, what do you do with a party

called UKIP? Labour and the Tories tried to ignore it. But its poll

ratings still rise. Nick Clegg challenged its leader to TV debates,

which gave it another boost in the polls. The media go into full-on

attack mode, as only the British media know how, bigging up some

obscure UKIP candidate's absurd views on Lenny Henry and leading a

national newscast on some nutty donor's views on women wearing

trousers, and UKIP moves 11 points ahead of Labour and 20 ahead the

Tories in polls for the Euro elections. Undaunted by this track

record of abject failure, the media and the other parties are now

claiming Nigel Farage is a big feartie for refusing to stand in a

by-election that only they were demanding he fight. Further proof

that he's a scaredy custard is the fact that hasn't entered the

Eurovision Song Contest or applied for the vacant position of Man

United manager. So what makes UKIP the Teflon Party? We turned to a

noted Faragista, who knows the man and the party, and asked her to

explain the appeal. Here's Christine Hamilton, with her take of the week.

Hello, I'm Christine Hamilton and I've been with UKIP for 12 years.

This week, the game changed. Having ignored, laughed and insulted us,

the liberal, Labour, Conservatives, have woken up to the threat we pose

and have launched a full frontal assault. We have had endless attacks

on UKIP leaders, members and supporters, but kippers are made of

stern stuff. We can take it. In fact, it makes us stronger. The more

mud they chucked at us, the higher our membership rises, and our

opinion poll ratings. These smears will continue to backfire. They just

put us into the spotlight. Some Lib Dem peer said UKIP were the BNP in

blazers. What rubbish. UKIP does not do discrimination on sex, race or

creed. Simple. UKIP today mirrors the peasant revolt of 1381. More,

ordinary people are rising up against the political elite. Voters

are fed up with Cameron, Miliband, Nick Clegg and the whole out of

touch arrogant Westminster bubble. There is a fast-growing grassroots

party attracting people who have never been involved in politics

before. UKIP is bound to have a few nutters and fruitcakes, and a dodgy

donor said yesterday that women should not wear trousers. Mommsen is

on stilts. The fact is that UKIP is full of strong, determined women in

key roles, and they are there on merit, unlike some of the other

parties. People are flocking to UKIP in droves because they like what

they see and they believe what we stand for. Nigel's army is on the

march, and the political elite do not know how to stop us.

And from her boudoir in Battersea to our own little boudoir over the

river in the heart of Westminster, Christine joins us now. Diane, we

have seen the media, we have seen the three mainstream Westminster

parties to a full frontal assault on Nigel Farage and UKIP, and it

doesn't stick. Why? Because, although I think it is a little

disingenuous of Christine to say that it does not do prejudice, the

polls show that the strongest issue for UKIP is immigration. The truth

is that there is a populist argument against the current Westminster

consensus on Europe. I am pro-European and the end of the day.

But it cause I spent the 1990s examining the workings of economic

monetary union, I drew the conclusion that it was a project of

European elites, and that hasn't changed. What has happened to Greece

has made everything worse. So there is a populist feeling about Europe

which the Westminster elite have not properly reflected. But you are

probably talking to the wrong person. I wanted Ed Miliband to come

out for a referendum ahead of David Cameron and he would not do it. Have

you seen Michael Portillo's face? No, I am dazzled by his white shirt.

I thought your answer when quite a long way from the question. Oh, you

noticed that, too! I was struck that you were saying that it's a populist

movement but it seems to be endorsed by your own intellectual enquiries

into the subject. In other words, the populist movement is right. I am

a sceptic. But is the media using the wrong tactics with UKIP? Every

time you attacked them, they rise in the polls. I think they are. The

understanding was a few months ago that the Tory press would let UKIP

have it with both barrels with every scandal they could drag up. They

have implemented that and it has not worked. That is worse than that

because the way the Conservatives have chosen to deal with UKIP is by

trying to out trump them on immigration and concern about the

European Union. That is a strategy which is bound to fail, because if

you say we are very concerned about immigration, or that you are doing

is saying Nigel Farage is on the right subject. But since the

Conservative leadership is not willing to leave the European Union,

Nigel Farage can always say the solution is to leave the European

Union. So you endorse his argument but you can't go as far as he goes

in his solution. There are a lot of closet UKIP supporters in the Tory

party. Not so close it. And a lot of them, if enough other factors, would

happily cross the floor. You said you were pro-European. So am I. I am

massively pro-Europe and in favour of immigration, but against the EU

and against uncontrolled, unfettered immigration. I love Europe, it is a

wonderful place, but I just don't want to be under the rule of Europe,

governed by Europe. I want to be governed by people I can vote for an

vote in and out, not by unelected bureaucrats. That is where we

differ. You are going into these elections with a head of steam

behind you. Don't forget, the polls go like that. I know you want to

manage expectations, unlike several people in UKIP who do not seem to

know that game. Supposing you do really well? What happens next? The

expectation is that we will win the European elections. Of course we

want to manage expectations. We might not. We are obviously going to

do well and we will have more MEPs. People criticise UKIP MEPs because

they don't turn up to this or that. UKIP MEPs want to be out of Europe.

They are being elected to something that they want to abolish. So they

will spend their time working towards that. But what happens next,

with that big UKIP vote, in the 2015 General Election, you deliver that

to the Labour Party. I don't believe that is true. Many who vote UKIP

will return to tribal loyalties next year, of course. I was in Bath with

Nigel Farage on Tuesday and somebody stopped me industry and said, I am a

lifelong Labour supporter. I am a shop steward all my life. I am

voting for you in Europe. But it is the Tory vote you will hurt in 2015.

You would be lucky to win one or two seats at the next general election.

You could deliver the election to Mr Miliband. Is that the plan? Is it

your hope that in opposition the Tories would go very UKIP and

actually UKIP could move in with the extreme sceptical Tory party? You

are making the assumption that UKIP is just a bunch of disenchanted

Conservatives, which is so not the case. A large number, to give an

example, a large number of UKIP votes come from the Labour Party,

and from people who have never voted before, or have not voted for ages.

But address the point. The votes will come disproportionately from

the Conservatives and is likely that will deliver the election to the

Labour Party. The most important thing to me is the long-term,

getting out of the EU. You asked me a question, let me finish. In the

meantime, if that means we have Ed Miliband as prime minister after

whatever date it is in June next year, so be it. Because I want the

long-term solution for this country, which is to get out of the

EU, because I can only see disaster if we continue within it. I thought

it was Mr Cameron offering the referendum. UKIP is not here to prop

up Mr Cameron in government. The Tories are dividing the UKIP vote.

Cameron has lost so much Conservative support it is actually

nothing to do with what Nigel Farage has done. It is to do with what

Cameron has done and has not done. If we have a short term Labour

government, or a coalition with Labour as the dominant party, for

me, so be it. Can I deal with the question you asked Christine? The

first thing, when Conservatives going to opposition to do with the

hope of the right that they will elect a leader who is on the

mentally Eurosceptical. That is one is in David Cameron was elected but

that leader always disappoints, and always becomes wedded to EU

membership. The second thing is that one cannot assume the Tories will

bounce back with whatever sort of leader. If they don't win the next

election, they will soon be in a position where they have not won an

election for 30 years. The last election the Conservatives won was

in 1992. I think that is without precedent. Even in the middle of the

19th century, the Conservative Party did not go 30 years without winning

an election. Is UKIP a racist party? I wouldn't

call it a racist party. I would call it the British equivalent of the Tea

Party. The American Tea Party. You will force the leadership of the

Tory party to pay too much attention to you, to move too far to the right

and make themselves unelectable nationally. I don't think UKIP can

be held responsible responsible for what the leadership of the

Conservative Party does. We used to be a pressure group, 20 years ago,

we are a mainstream political party. That cannot be denied. We are a

political party in our own right. We are not just a pressure group. We

are standing on our own platform. We are going for what we want. What the

Tory party does and what it responds is up to the Tory party. You say one

or two people speak out. There is something every week with someone

from UKIP with something embarrassing to say? We are

acquiring members at the rate of knots. There will be nutters, loops

and unpleasant people. We have had examples of that. The media is

amassing so much attention on these new members, etc of UKIP. If the

same attention was applied to all the other parties, you would find

there are racists in every party, come on, you know that. You know

that. UKIP is not a racist party. Nigel Farage right not to fight

Newark? Yes. I think it was a very, very... It would have been a

tremendous risk. On the other hand, had he pulled it off, that would

have answered the question that Christine was struggling with a

moment ago - what happens next after the European elections? If he had

won that by-election, the Conservative Party would be

absolutely quivering. He has no connection whatsoever with that part

of the world. You know the reasons. I know, Roy Jenkins won Glasgow. In

1982. Even more extraordinary. There are strong local candidates. They

are choosing over this weekend. It's Tuesday night the candidate will be

announced. If he ends up as the only UKIP MP after the next election,

what have you achieved? Well, first of all, we will have presumably

achieved a great deal in the European parliament's. We have - we

are forcing the agenda. Making the pace. What will you achieved? No

more - 100% than we achieved now. No more than Caroline Lucas and the

Greens. It depends how you use it. Look at the waves Nigel Farage has

made in the European parliament. He will make waves in Westminster. It

might not necessarily be Nigel. There could be a by-elections

somewhere else that somebody else stands for. They will have achieved

not having a referendum on the European question in this country.

We will see. Christine Hamilton. Thank you. Now it's late, beyond

Paxo's bedtime late. 'Hush, little Jeremy, don't say a word, papa's

gonna buy you a mockingbird.' We understand why you want to get to

bed early, like most former Newsnight viewers. But we on This

Week are made of sterner late-night stuff. We're powering through with

damn good reason because, waiting in the wings, cricket commentating

legend Henry Blofeld is here. Ready to face Diane's bouncers, and

Michael's googlies. I hope you're wearing a box. Don't forget, if the

mere mention of Michael's left-arm action has already turned your

stomach, don't forget to tell us how upset you are on the Twitter, the

Fleecebook and the Interweb. We'll be ignoring all your comments as per

usual. We're not going to apologise for it, we've gone a bit Dad's Army

crazy tonight. We're just so excited by the news that a film version of

Dad's Army is to be remade starring Bill Nighy and Toby Jones after

nearly 40 years! Besides, we love a good comeback on this programme, as

you can see. Two for the price of one. With the euro election campaign

hotting up this week, we recruited the Mirror's Kevin Maguire and his

crack unit, the Westminster-on-Sea Home Guard, for their roundup of the

week. # Who do you think you are kidding

Mr Hitler # If you think we're on-the-run... #

A couple of weeks away MPs are back at parliament. After Easter the

battle for Europe is hotting up. It's time for every man to do his

duty. Come on, left right, left right. Look lively. Hurry in place,

please. Maguire, take a roll call with you. Or rap Pienaar. Private

Watt. Yes. Private Grieve. We seem to have a few men missing in action.

It must be the high-speed trains. Attendance in Captain Cameron's army

isn't great when Colonel Mercer retired again. I believe when I've

got something wrong, you have to fess up and get on with it. No point

of trying to avoid it. What has happened has happened. I'm ashamed

of it. Now, look, we are facing pretty stiff competition from

Captain Farage and his platoon, I want Westminster-on-sea to win. It

will be tin helmets on for the European election and we will try

and finish them off after that. Look at Newark. This man, Farage, he has

no stomach for a fight. If I said yes to Newark all anybody would talk

to me about the next three weeks would be Newark, the by-election,

who I was up against. It would have been a massive distraction for

something I have been planning and getting ready for the last three

years. The war will be better on the home front. The economy grew by a

whole 0.8% in the first quarter. Lieutenant Osborne put out the

bunting. The numbers show that Britain is coming back. We can't

take that for granted. We have to work through our long-term economic

plan. Of course, families are still feeling the affect of the great

recession. We do now see, in place, the foundations for a broad-based

recovery. Will battles at home have much impact on the European front?

Captain Miliband and his Labour troop think they found a path to

victory through rent controls. Will they be a barrage or pot-shot?

Generation rent is a generation left ignored and insecure for too long.

Not under a Labour government. Coming, sir. Captain Clegg has the

guts to take on Captain or Colonel Farage. The Deputy Prime Minister

won plaudits in his own party about saying nice things about the EU in a

European parliamentary election much he took a beating in the TV debates.

Trouble will break out if the Lib Dem troops are wiped out in three

weeks' time. Word is that Le will be on manoeuvres. Salmond started his

European campaign this week much he wants his own army am he will want

his own country next. Have you seen the polls? They need to come up with

a better theme than "we're all doomed." At Prime Minister's

Questions Ed Miliband accused David Cameron of being in the pocket of

the bankers over the Royal Mail sale. Get back in here. Coming, sir.

The more we know about this privatisation the bigger the fiasco

it is. A national asset sold at a knock down price. A sweetheart deal

for the City. The Government totally bungled the sale. Every about this

privatisation stinks. Captain Cameron didn't like that uncle

Kevin. You stupid boy. Six questions and not a mention of GDP. Not a

mention of what happened while we were away in terms of employment

figures. Not a mention of the fact the deficit is getting better.

Still, despite all the recent ferocity, the euro front is really a

phoney war. The really nasty fight starts next year for May 2015. Come

on lads, let's go over the top. # Who do you think you are kidding

Mr Voter # If you think we're on-the-run... #

Miranda joins us. Labour, Tories, Lib Dems are hoping this UKIP euro

election will be a flash in the pan. Let's look at the potential fallout

if they do well. Miranda, if the Lib Dems are wiped out at the euro

elections, they have 12 MEPs, they lose them all, does Nick Clegg face

a leadership crisis this summer? I don't think so. But there are a lot

of mutterings about the approach to this set of European elections.

Usually, the Liberal Democrat party, the most pro-European party in the

political spectrum in the UK, tries desperately to avoid the subject of

Europe when fighting the European elections. This changes it. They

fight it on bread-and-butter issues like the economy. They are part of

an a Government doing well in rebuilding the economy. Because of

the UKIP issue, Nick Clegg came out fighting and take the fight to

Farage and talk about the European Union. That is a huge electoral

experiment. Without success? Yes. A huge electoral experiment. He might

be able to get away with it by having a discussion about the way

the election was fought and the decision to take on Farage. Then it

is not an issue about him. It's about this huge (inaudible) that

British politics is going through because of UKIP. Would you run out

Convince Cable going on summer manoeuvres? There will be

manoeuvres, I think. Whether they will be taken seriously or not is

another matter. If the Tories come a poor third, if they do, does the

parliamentary party go into headless chicken mode? They will be very,

very upset. The thing that worries me much more than the European

elections is the Scottish referendum. Because, you know, there

are, in a way, no consequences from the European elections. I mean, it

doesn't actually matter to any of us how many MEPs there are of various

parties. It's all a question of morale and all that sort of thing.

If the thing in Scotland goes wrong, everything changes the next morning.

Badly for Mr Cameron? Much worse than the euro elections? Yes.

Catastrophic for a Conservative Prime Minister to lose the union

would be disastrous. It's the Conservative and Unionist Party.

Catastrophic for us we lose over 40 votes in parliament and possibly

could not win a general election again. If Labour comes a poor

second, which again the polls suggest it will, of course we don't

know until it happens, but for the sake of my question, if it does, do

Mr Miliband have to reconsider his opposition to a referendum? You

might think so. I have been a pro-referendum person. I wasn't

thinking so, I was asking you! No, he won't actually. You don't think

he will? No, Ed Miliband himself is a committed pro-European. I can say

that with confidence. We know it will be bad for the Lib Dems. We

don't know how bad. We talked about the Tories. Fallout and collateral

damage for the Tories. For the main opposition party to come a poor

second is not good. We don't believe that the 2015 general election will

be fought on Europe. That's the strength of our position. So I think

we will go forward much as we are. On the other hand, you have

consistently said on this programme that Europe isn't the main theme for

UKIP, it's immigration. There is no reason why the 2015 election should

not be fought on immigration. It would be suicide for a progressive

party to out do UKIP on race and immigration. Yvette Cooper was

trying to sound tough on immigration? Is My over own view is

there are no votes for Labour in moving right on immigration. You

can't out do UKIP? You can't out do UKIP or the Tories either. The

argument about Labour applies, admittedly more weakly, it applies

to the Conservatives too. You cannot outtrump UKIP, why do it. There is

the big UKIP issue which will go forward to the 2015 election, which

is this anti-politics feeling. Which is going to be a huge problem for

all the established parties. And, my feeling is that Labour, at the

moment, are paying a slight game with trying to harness

disgruntlement, very much in their own way, not in a UKIP way, with

this critique of, you know, inequality etc. How you translate

into a serious programme as a government in waiting next year I

think is a big challenge for Ed Miliband. Let us park the impact of

a Scottish referendum for a moment. We will come back to that in the

weeks ahead. Sure. Is it possible for the Tories, they do very badly

in the euro elections, let us say for the sake of argument, they can

continue, is a strong economy enough to keep them in power then?

Who knows? David Cameron has made his position more difficult by

making an extraordinary announcement, which is that he would

not serve as the leader of a coalition government that did not

agree to a referendum. There is a fairly narrow set of results in

which the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats might again be in

coalition, but it is a possibility. For someone who presumably wants to

be Prime Minister and keep his party in power to start ruling out

circumstances in which he would share power with others... To put it

at its most gentle, it is not a foregone conclusion that there will

be an enormous swing to the Conservatives. But again, that is

the influence of UKIP, when he says that. It has distorted all thinking.

To go back to the point we raised with Christine Hamilton earlier,

supposing UKIP at the next general election only get three percentage

points of the vote, or something like that, but supposing two of

those come from the Conservatives. Last time, the Conservatives got 37

percentage points. An overall majority might need 40 percentage

points. It is absolutely critical that these quite small parcels of

votes that UKIP may be taking, it is critical where they came from in the

first place, from the Tories, or from Labour and the Liberal

Democrats. If the Tories shake off the Euro elections and the economy

is recovering, and will recover all the way through to the election,

that is the issue that matters, they will say. Is Mr Miliband's continued

emphasis on the cost-of-living crisis enough as a Labour repast,

or, as some people on the Labour side say, he needs to change his

chin? I think we want to think that cost of the Bill Trump and improving

economy. -- it will trump an improving economy. It is possible

that the Conservatives will be looking at a vote free recovery.

that the Conservatives will be does Mr Miliband have to change the

message? does Mr Miliband have to change the

person. In my view... That was inscrutable! This analysis about

inequality being the big issue facing the nation and much of the

developed world. Obviously, Ed Miliband is onto something. There

are important books being written about it and published every week at

the moment. But having a good academic analysis which resonates

with people is not enough. You need a programme. That is why they

brought in David Axelrod. He used inequality and the position of the

super wealthy to rubbish Mitch Romney. They want to play a ruthless

came about that because they no one of the weaknesses of the Tory part

of the coalition is that people do not think they know how ordinary

people live. Which is why Royal Mail privatisation was the issue he went

on at by ministers questions. Very quickly, is this Cyril Smith story

on at by ministers questions. Very causing the Lib Dems problems? I

think at the moment it is so historical that it is not really

being seen as the same set of problems they have dealt with

recently in that awful area of sexual harassment. But they could do

without it. Certainly. But it really is a long time ago. This problem

will Leticia 's, local MPs, who are unchallengeable even by party

leaders, it is an issue for any party, I think. OK, we will leave it

there. Now, throughout history humiliation

has often been used as a punishment. Whether it's wearing a dunce's cap,

working on a chain gang or facing rotten tomatoes in the town square

stocks, those deemed to have transgressed have been made to

display their shame for all to see. You may think we live in more

enlightened times, but you only have to watch a random selection of

Michael Portillo's Greatest Train Journeys, or Diane Abbott's

short-lived career as junior shadow health minister, to realise forcing

someone to degrade themselves in public is still an especially cruel

punishment. That's why we've decided to reopen old wounds and put

humiliation in this week's Spotlight.

The sound of silence turned into the sound of sirens for musician Paul

Simon this week. His marriage had troubled waters after a blazing row

with his wife landed them a charge of disorderly conduct and a

humiliating court appearance. We had an argument, and it is very typical

of us. Neither one of us has any fear. Humiliation comes in many

forms. Just ask Wirral Cricket club. Sports fans were stumped when it

emerged they had been bowled out for just three runs. Nigel Farage's

decision not to stand in the Newark by-election was about avoiding a

humiliating defeat. I will not be parachuted into a constituency have

never visited. The outgoing MP, Patrick Mercer, took public disgrace

on the chin after he was forced to resign following another cash for

questions scandal. Max Clifford had nothing to say to the media after he

became the first person convicted under Operation Yewtree. He was

found guilty of indecent assaults on women and girls, deservedly shifting

the humiliation away from the victims and onto Max Clifford

himself. Shame, ignore me, and Millie eight, we know about that on

this week, but how do you recover? Or are some defeats so humiliating

there is just no coming back? There is no coming back! Henry blow fell,

welcome to this week. For years, you followed the English cricket team so

you know about defeat and humiliation. What is the difference?

Defeat is something that happens. You lose and it has been a splendid

game and no one worries very much. You go to Australia and lose five

test matches. It is all right being beaten, but we were not competitive.

That was a total humiliation everything went wrong. I arrived for

the third test match in Perth and I only saw the England side for ten

minutes to realise that in the dressing room the whole thing had

fallen apart. It was sad to see. I have just come back from Australia,

and you are right, they can't help us forget how much of a humiliation

it was. Were you good at playing their bouncers? I reminded them how

many medals we got in the Olympics and that shut them up. Defeat, you

can bounce back from but humiliation is more difficult. When you are

humiliated in the way that we were, and if a side is humiliated, they

have to go back to the drawing board. This decision to sack Kevin

Pietersen, which was not what everyone would have done, but I

think everyone near to the side realised this was the best and right

decision. Lots of people further away will doubt it but I do everyone

near to the side realised this was the best and right decision. Lots of

people further away will doubt it but IDSA that always happens when

this sort of thing has to be done. But his influence was not good.

Humiliation is all the more bitter, I would suggest, when it was not

that long ago that we were thrashing the Aussies. If we had been losing

again and again overall these years you would think that is what

happens. Equally, we must remember that in about four years the circle

will go half round again. I am sure this will happen. The talent is

always there. It is a cyclical thing. We will find young players.

It will take a bit of time. Alastair Cook is not the most scintillating

of captaincy. He is very defensive. I think that is a problem. There is

no one else, which is why they have decided to stay with him. He and

Kevin Pietersen were not really communicating. If you are building a

young side and your main player is at loggerheads with the captain... I

am interested in what you say about the dressing room. It seems that

unlike simple defeat, humiliation means you begin to fall apart. That

was exactly what was happening in Australia. The coach was not talking

to his leading batsmen. Alastair Cook was not talking to him by the

end. What Kevin Pietersen did, at Headingley in 2012 when South Africa

were playing England, Kevin Pietersen tweeted the South African

dressing room saying that Andrew Strauss, who he changed next to in

the pavilion, was a fallen man. He then tweeted the fast bowlers

telling them how to get Andrew Strauss out. There is a word for

that, it really is treacherous. Humiliation is the stuff of

politics, isn't it? You have not spoken about the positive side of

humiliation, which is that this is the president to renewal and

rebuilding. Actually, you did in a way. I want to endorse that. Is this

your own personal story? Yes, this is an autobiographical point but I

can extend it more broadly. Someone like John Profumo. I don't know how

many viewers remember, but the Profumo scandal was the greatest

into ritual humiliation, and yet he spent the rest of his life gradually

rebuilding. -- individual humiliation. But humiliation is not

always a precursors to renewal. I was thinking about Suez, where Eden

was humiliated and it was the end of a political -- particular phase of

imperialism. I was also thinking about the general election that

Edward Heath called, asking the British electorate who rules

Britain. The electorate voted him out. I have to say how wonderful it

is to hear Henry in real life. You are very kind. In any west Indian

household in the cricket season, his voice will always be in the

background. In 1981, Ian Botham was captain of England and we played

Australia and lost the first test at Trent Bridge. He made two ducks at

Lord's and resign before he was sacked. Michael Brearley captained

the side in the next test at Leeds. Botham was playing and England

looked as though they would be beaten by an innings and 20. Both

made 149 not out and Australia had to get 129 and lost by 18 runs. So

you had both coming back from the elation and Australia suffering a

dramatic humiliation in the same game. -- Ian Botham. That is the joy

of cricket. You have a book out. I have, called squeezing the Orange,

which some people think if a self-indulgent title. Michael will

like it. My philosophy in life is that I regard every day, truthfully,

as an orange, and I think as much juice has to be squeezed out as

possible. When you have got through that, you go to bed and sleep and

you get another one the next day. We have squeezed out all of the time we

have left on that existential point. That's your lot for tonight, folks,

but not for us, because it's Jeremy Paxman's leaving do at Lou Lou's

tonight, and we'll be asking the DJ to play the same broken record 14

times in a row and expect a standing ovation. But we leave you tonight

with something that isn't going anywhere fast, a Westminster beef

that continues to rumble and the parliamentary equivalent of a

drive-by shooting. It's not exactly Biggie and Tupac but you take what

you can get in politics. Nighty-night, don't let Big John

bite. him, Mr Speaker. Order. I haven't

finished. In the sponsored to that question,

the Prime Minister has finished, and he can take it from me that he has

finished. -- in response to that question.

# Everybody knew that you didn't give any lip to big John

# Big bad John. # Ted, I... I'm not interested in

coming to see Lady Gaga, sir. Part of the Big Bumper Comedy

50th Birthday Weekend.