12/06/2014 This Week


12/06/2014

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Tonight, This Week goes back to school.

:00:00.:00:09.

The children at Westminster have been misbehaving - Theresa May

:00:10.:00:11.

and Michael Gove not snogging but fighting behind the bike sheds.

:00:12.:00:16.

But with schools accused of not doing enough to tackle extremism,

:00:17.:00:18.

how best do we educate children in a multicultural society?

:00:19.:00:24.

Journalist and author Safraz Mansoor is wearing his old school tie.

:00:25.:00:31.

I think education is about reading, writing and arithmetic. Let's keep

:00:32.:00:38.

religion out of it. is wearing his old school tie.

:00:39.:00:42.

religion out of it. Head boy David Cameron and Home

:00:43.:00:43.

Secretary Theresa May are Head boy David Cameron and Home

:00:44.:00:46.

pressure over the passport backlog. But can they stop

:00:47.:00:48.

the problem becoming a crisis? The Sun's Jane Moore is

:00:49.:00:49.

on a school day out. If Theresa May wants to be head girl

:00:50.:00:57.

of the Tory party, she has to hope the passport problem does not result

:00:58.:01:00.

in her being suspended from classes. on a school day out.

:01:01.:01:03.

the passport problem does not result in her being suspended from classes.

:01:04.:01:06.

Wimbledon champion Andy Murray has caused a stir by choosing, shock,

:01:07.:01:08.

horror, a "girl" to be his new coach,

:01:09.:01:11.

but will she be judged fairly? Former British Tennis player

:01:12.:01:12.

Annabel Croft serves us an ace. The idea that a woman can't teach a

:01:13.:01:23.

man anything is absolutely ridiculous. Let's start with Michael

:01:24.:01:25.

and Alan's shirts. Annabel Croft serves us an ace.

:01:26.:01:28.

Make sure you behave yourselves, or me

:01:29.:01:33.

and Tucker will give you a wedgie. Evenin' all.

:01:34.:01:36.

Welcome to This Week - BBC One's late-night Trojan Horse of extreme

:01:37.:01:38.

and misguided views, where " a culture of fear and intimidation

:01:39.:01:41.

" has long taken grip, amid accusations that hardline Blue Nun

:01:42.:01:45.

drinkers have infiltrated the studio in a clearly forlorn

:01:46.:01:47.

attempt to influence young and otherwise sober minds.

:01:48.:01:53.

It must only be a matter of time before we join

:01:54.:01:55.

the Education Department, the Home Office and Birmingham schools in the

:01:56.:01:58.

special measures sin bin, where Gove Junior and May Minor are already

:01:59.:02:01.

languishing after being summoned to the headmaster's office and told

:02:02.:02:05.

in no uncertain terms that the extreme interpretation of radical

:02:06.:02:08.

conservative ideology that has taken root in Gove Minor's brain had to be

:02:09.:02:12.

eradicated, while May Minor's ambition to be leader of the next

:02:13.:02:17.

Tory Caliphate was an ideological delusion which she alone harboured.

:02:18.:02:25.

And while these shenanigans dominated Westminster Academy,

:02:26.:02:28.

nobody noticed that the Brum kids' annual ski-trip to Chamonix had been

:02:29.:02:33.

replaced by a pilgrimage to Mecca. What a surprise!

:02:34.:02:35.

Speaking of those who've taken their eye off

:02:36.:02:39.

the ball and spend most of their time blaming each other, I'm joined

:02:40.:02:42.

on the sofa tonight by two men whose views would have been behind

:02:43.:02:45.

the times even in the Dark Ages. Think of them as the Black Knight

:02:46.:02:48.

and the Black Death of late night political chat.

:02:49.:02:50.

I speak, of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson...

:02:51.:02:54.

And #sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo.

:02:55.:03:03.

I'm not going to do moments of the week this week, I'm going to do the

:03:04.:03:09.

events in Iraq, which every hour get more serious. Michael, I suggest

:03:10.:03:12.

Iraq is in the grip more serious. Michael, I suggest

:03:13.:03:18.

war, with outsiders piling in. Reports denied of American drones in

:03:19.:03:23.

the sky. Reports of the Iranians revolutionary guard getting involved

:03:24.:03:25.

on the side of the Baghdad government. This is not going to end

:03:26.:03:31.

well. Almost certainly not. It is the latest development of 15 years

:03:32.:03:35.

of catastrophic foreign policy by the Americans and British. The

:03:36.:03:39.

foreign policy has been to remove nasty dictators from office, with no

:03:40.:03:44.

consideration as to what would follow next. So the removal of

:03:45.:03:47.

Saddam Hussein in Iraq has led to disaster. The destabilisation of

:03:48.:03:52.

Assad in Syria has led to a prolonged civil war in which the

:03:53.:03:58.

extremists are active. Libya is also largely under extremist control. And

:03:59.:04:04.

only in Egypt have things bounced back a bit because of a countercoup

:04:05.:04:07.

against the coup that we sponsored against Mubarak. When historians

:04:08.:04:13.

look at this, they will be absolutely puzzled as to how it was

:04:14.:04:17.

that the West managed to follow a foreign policy over 15 years which

:04:18.:04:24.

led to installing deadly enemies in key positions. That is part of the

:04:25.:04:30.

reason why we are where we are, but what happens next? This is not just

:04:31.:04:34.

an Iraqi problem, this is a regional problem. Throughout the Levant, from

:04:35.:04:40.

the Lebanon in the west, to the Gulf in the East, the whole region is in

:04:41.:04:47.

the reach -- in the grip of a Sunni Shia war. Yes, and there will be

:04:48.:04:54.

lots of arguments about how we got here. The point is that we are here

:04:55.:05:01.

now and what do we do? I think it is very difficult now, after

:05:02.:05:05.

Afghanistan and Iraq, and the failed a vote on Syria, for any democratic

:05:06.:05:10.

government to suggest that they need to do anything meaningful. But this

:05:11.:05:15.

is a much more profound situation. That is why the question is not what

:05:16.:05:19.

should we do now. Everybody knows that we do nothing. And the body

:05:20.:05:24.

language to Mike from President Obama gave off that message. He

:05:25.:05:29.

spent 20 minutes explaining that he was going to do nothing. When you

:05:30.:05:32.

face a crisis of this severity and you say, we will pursue all options

:05:33.:05:36.

and rule out nothing, except putting boots on the ground, it is not

:05:37.:05:41.

surprising to me that William Hague chose to spend a week with Angelina

:05:42.:05:49.

Jolie. Iraq was created by the French and the British. They drew

:05:50.:05:59.

lines in the sand. Are we not witnessing, for good or ill, the

:06:00.:06:04.

partition of Iraq? Iraq eat Kurdistan is going its own way. The

:06:05.:06:11.

East of Iraq is now in the hands of ISIS, this militant Sunni

:06:12.:06:15.

organisation. And Baghdad and the West of Iraq, the Iranians will

:06:16.:06:25.

never let us Sunnis take that. One huge mistake, forgetting about the

:06:26.:06:30.

invasion of Iraq, but actually dismantling the Armed Forces of Iraq

:06:31.:06:34.

and sending them away. The man who is leading ISIS was one of those

:06:35.:06:39.

soldiers who was sent away, with their arms. We are seeing that

:06:40.:06:42.

disastrous decision come back to bite us. They did not just get tanks

:06:43.:06:47.

when they took Mosul, not just Black Hawk helicopters, but $450 million

:06:48.:06:54.

out of the central bank, plus bullion. They are now the best

:06:55.:06:58.

financed terrorist group in the world. And the security forces

:06:59.:07:04.

dissolved quickly. And there are some terrible things happening. We

:07:05.:07:09.

will be covering this in the Sunday Politics on BBC One on Sunday

:07:10.:07:10.

morning. "Choo Choo" Portillo.

:07:11.:07:12.

Politics on BBC One on Sunday morning.

:07:13.:07:15.

Last week, we revealed to an unimpressed world that next month,

:07:16.:07:18.

on July 10th, we're taking This Week on the the high road for a special

:07:19.:07:22.

edition of the show in Scotland. We also mentioned it will be filmed

:07:23.:07:25.

before a live audience of This Week afficionados, at

:07:26.:07:29.

a high-security Edinburgh location. So, if either of our viewers

:07:30.:07:41.

in Scotland would like to attend this non-event, head to our website

:07:42.:07:46.

and fill out an application form. Next week we'll put both names

:07:47.:07:49.

in an un-Islamic tombola and pull out the unlucky winner.

:07:50.:07:56.

According to the head of school regulator Ofsted,

:07:57.:08:01.

"a culture of fear and intimidation has taken grip" in some Birmingham

:08:02.:08:03.

schools, following accusations of a hard-line Islamist influence

:08:04.:08:08.

being introduced by stealth. The make-up of many of the schools

:08:09.:08:11.

was almost entirely Muslim. But they were not faith schools,

:08:12.:08:15.

not officially at any rate. So what lessons can we learn

:08:16.:08:18.

when schools predominately serve one community?

:08:19.:08:22.

And is it best for children to be educated only with pupils

:08:23.:08:25.

from similar backgrounds? We turned to author

:08:26.:08:27.

and broadcaster Sarfraz Manzoor. This is his take of the week.

:08:28.:08:48.

It was 40 years ago this summer that I arrived in Britain from Pakistan.

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My family settled in Luton in an overwhelmingly Pakistani Muslim part

:08:57.:09:00.

of town. Pretty much everyone looked like me. My father was a

:09:01.:09:02.

working-class first-generation Pakistani, and he believed his

:09:03.:09:06.

children would go further if they knew how to interact with people who

:09:07.:09:09.

lived outside the Muslim bubble, so we moved to a very white part of

:09:10.:09:13.

town. It was the best thing that ever happened to us. Today, there

:09:14.:09:22.

are still pockets of monocultural as, not just in Luton, but also, as

:09:23.:09:27.

we have seen, in Birmingham. I don't think there is an organised Trojan

:09:28.:09:30.

Horse plot to schools with radicalism, but I worry about

:09:31.:09:35.

schools that are effectively faith schools simply because so many

:09:36.:09:39.

parents and pupils come from just one religion. Michael Gove's

:09:40.:09:49.

education reforms are all about parents will choice and school

:09:50.:09:52.

freedom, but what if some parents use that choice to push for a narrow

:09:53.:09:59.

interpretation of Islam that many, including many Muslims, disagree

:10:00.:10:03.

with? What if some parents actually want their children to be taught

:10:04.:10:07.

that white women are prostitutes and music is anti-Muslim? It is freedom,

:10:08.:10:18.

but at what price? Hello. Did you have a nice day? Shall we go to the

:10:19.:10:26.

playground? OK. Let me take your hat off. 40 years on from when I came to

:10:27.:10:35.

Britain, I am now the father of a little girl and my wife and I are

:10:36.:10:39.

thinking about how we will educate her in future. My dad raised me to

:10:40.:10:43.

believe that religion belonged in the private realm and did not need

:10:44.:10:45.

to be installed by places of learning. That is why I want my

:10:46.:10:50.

daughter to go to a school where she is surrounded by people who look

:10:51.:10:53.

like the whole of Britain. Anything else is a betrayal of my own family

:10:54.:10:57.

history, and more importantly it is letting my daughter down.

:10:58.:11:01.

And from a playground in Stoke Newington to our own little

:11:02.:11:05.

playground here in the heart of Westminster, Sarfraz joins us now.

:11:06.:11:13.

Do you think most Muslim parents want what you have described, or the

:11:14.:11:17.

kind of schools they have in Birmingham? It is hard to speak for

:11:18.:11:23.

all Muslims, but the interesting question is that this Trojan Horse

:11:24.:11:26.

episode seems to have divided and polarised opinion. The right seem to

:11:27.:11:31.

think it is about violent extremism and the left think it is about

:11:32.:11:35.

Islamophobia. I was trying to show that there will be people from a

:11:36.:11:37.

culturally Conservative background who will want those values. What do

:11:38.:11:41.

you do if the freedom we believe parents should have leads them to

:11:42.:11:44.

want things that do not help a cohesive society? It does not matter

:11:45.:11:49.

if there are not many of them, if there are, should the school be a

:11:50.:11:52.

safe place where you are protected from those extreme opinions, or

:11:53.:11:55.

should be a place where those opinions are indulged? It is not

:11:56.:12:00.

just an issue of potentially violent extremism, but there is a

:12:01.:12:06.

possibility that certain Conservative values could be in

:12:07.:12:09.

conflict with what we think of as British values, for example that you

:12:10.:12:14.

should not teach music, that girls and boys should be rigidly

:12:15.:12:19.

segregated. Whether in a faith school or a state school, that goes

:12:20.:12:23.

against the grain of what we are meant to stand for. The point is

:12:24.:12:29.

that if you are a kid, they say 98% of pupils and parents are Muslim. I

:12:30.:12:34.

would say 98% of parents are, not necessarily the kids. I think

:12:35.:12:37.

schools should be a place where you are doing things and learning things

:12:38.:12:40.

that may be the parents do not necessarily want. I come back to the

:12:41.:12:46.

question. You cannot speak for all Muslims, but where is the balance of

:12:47.:12:51.

opinion among Muslim parents? Do they want the kind of school you

:12:52.:12:55.

would want, or this school in Birmingham? They all want a good

:12:56.:12:59.

education but it is about class. If you grow up in an environment where

:13:00.:13:03.

you are not getting many influences from outside, there is more chance

:13:04.:13:06.

you will be worried about what is going on about outside. If you go to

:13:07.:13:11.

places like Bradford, Luton, Birmingham, where you have a large

:13:12.:13:14.

concentration of a certain community, there is more chance that

:13:15.:13:18.

that community will want to replicate itself. This was happening

:13:19.:13:26.

when Labour was in power. Were you aware of this as Education

:13:27.:13:31.

Secretary? Yes, indeed, I did the fastest U-turn in history. As

:13:32.:13:34.

Education Secretary, I tried to put in the education bill that had gone

:13:35.:13:38.

through the Commons and was in the Lords a clause that said all new

:13:39.:13:41.

faith schools had to take at least 20% of children from other

:13:42.:13:46.

religions, or no religion at all. It is worth saying none of the schools

:13:47.:13:49.

involved in Birmingham were faith schools. But they acted like they

:13:50.:13:56.

wanted to be. The reaction was that my feet were held to the fire. That

:13:57.:14:01.

was the reaction from our side, predominantly from the Catholic

:14:02.:14:05.

church at the time. We withdrew the amendment, but we got a voluntary

:14:06.:14:08.

agreement that it would happen anyway. Actually, what has happened,

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and I am not claiming credit, but in new faith schools it is not just 20%

:14:13.:14:19.

but something like 50% are not of that nomination or are of that

:14:20.:14:20.

nomination or are they different nomination. The problem I see is

:14:21.:14:28.

that if people want to go to their local school, and if local area

:14:29.:14:31.

around the school is predominantly Muslim you cannot tell them, you

:14:32.:14:34.

cannot go to your local school. What you have to do, and this is Michael

:14:35.:14:39.

Gove's problem, with his myriad of different systems, is that he is

:14:40.:14:43.

trying to promote individualism and uniformity at the same time. What

:14:44.:14:48.

parents need, I think, particularly in state schools, I think it is

:14:49.:14:55.

reasonable that there is the protection for parents that their

:14:56.:14:57.

children will not be in cultivated with a religion, even if they go to

:14:58.:15:04.

a faith school. We are all on the same page. The

:15:05.:15:08.

good question is, We are all on the same page. The

:15:09.:15:10.

good question where does parental choice end and where does core

:15:11.:15:14.

British values, quaranteed in schools, begin? It's a good

:15:15.:15:18.

question. I don't think it's a difficult question to answer, at

:15:19.:15:22.

least in principle. British values have to dominate. We have to provide

:15:23.:15:25.

the protection in schools that you are saying. It may be that situation

:15:26.:15:30.

doesn't obtain at the moment. It's possible to legislate that. Still to

:15:31.:15:35.

leave, you know, pretty important areas of parental freedom. I do

:15:36.:15:39.

think, we have been talking about British values in the last week,

:15:40.:15:43.

Michael Gove has, I think generally the time has come for us, the

:15:44.:15:48.

Government, the British people, to be rather more assertive. One of the

:15:49.:15:51.

areas we need to be more assertive is about what happens in schools. I

:15:52.:15:56.

think another area in which we need to be more assertive is that Sharia

:15:57.:16:01.

law, at least for some people, is becoming a second legal system

:16:02.:16:04.

alongside the British legal system. It's quite difficult for a nation

:16:05.:16:08.

state to continue to survive if you have two competing legal systems. I

:16:09.:16:14.

agree in concept. It depends on who is doing the assertion. One of the

:16:15.:16:21.

worries is that the Trojan Horse letter, which has probably turned

:16:22.:16:25.

out to be a hoax, Michael Gove, they are using that in a way to spread

:16:26.:16:33.

and expand particular ideas - The Ofsted investigation is devastating?

:16:34.:16:38.

If you have Michael Gove or David Cameron saying they want people to

:16:39.:16:41.

become more British. The people who send the message is as important as

:16:42.:16:48.

the message itself. Self. They happen to be the people in office

:16:49.:16:51.

they have responsibilities. They have authority. If you want the

:16:52.:16:55.

things that you express in your film. If you want those things, you

:16:56.:17:00.

have to have government - If they are saying they have people who are

:17:01.:17:04.

saying, hands up who believes in Christmas. Everyone says no. People

:17:05.:17:08.

saying music is anti-Muslim. What can you do by law to change that if

:17:09.:17:12.

the parents want that to be in the school? You make sure that the

:17:13.:17:17.

governors of the school and the head teachers understand - I wouldn't

:17:18.:17:21.

necessarily call them "British values" values that go wider - A

:17:22.:17:26.

danger of British values will be Big Society 2, which nobody can agree

:17:27.:17:32.

about. One of those values is tolerance. We had a curriculum a

:17:33.:17:37.

stipulation about what had to be done in schools which implied also

:17:38.:17:46.

what was not to be done in school. You can impose a curriculum on all

:17:47.:17:50.

schools whatever their status. I think you can. You can have useful

:17:51.:17:54.

additional freedoms of choice for parents without getting into this

:17:55.:17:58.

mess. You mentioned social class in this. Could it not be that for

:17:59.:18:02.

particularly in the poorer areas of our cities, like some of these

:18:03.:18:06.

schools in Birmingham, if you are a Muslim parent, you are not zealous

:18:07.:18:12.

religiously you are prepared to put up with a staunch Muslim school

:18:13.:18:16.

because at least there will be discipline and the kids, in certain

:18:17.:18:20.

subjects anyway, will be well educated and they will be better off

:18:21.:18:24.

than the stab academy three miles down the road? That is true. No

:18:25.:18:29.

parent wants their childed to go to a school that hasn't got good exam

:18:30.:18:34.

results. These schools did. There is concern and. Apprehension about the

:18:35.:18:38.

Muslim community in the mainstream media and some politicians. A lot of

:18:39.:18:42.

people in the community have fear and apprehension about wider

:18:43.:18:46.

society. These schools are a representation of the school and

:18:47.:18:49.

There has family. Been a group of people, we know the incompetence in

:18:50.:18:52.

a, who have been involved. It may not be a concerted plot, but there

:18:53.:18:56.

are a number of people who clearly want to reconfigure these schools in

:18:57.:19:00.

an Islamist direction? I don't know enough about whether - One of them

:19:01.:19:05.

wrote in the report, it was a Taliban-style report for the Muslim

:19:06.:19:09.

Council on Britain on what should happen in schools. I think the more

:19:10.:19:14.

worrying thing is that parents would want their kids to go to a school

:19:15.:19:18.

where music is considered bad and where white women are told they are

:19:19.:19:22.

prostitutes, that is more worrying for a society in trying to get kids

:19:23.:19:26.

to be quipped for the modern world. That is what is letting children

:19:27.:19:33.

down. That is extremist? Not violent That is extremism. Not the main

:19:34.:19:39.

concern. Why did Mr Blair give faith schools a new lease of life? I was

:19:40.:19:43.

Education Secretary under Mr Blair. If you are talking about Muslim

:19:44.:19:48.

schools - I don't, I mean all. There was an issue there where there was

:19:49.:19:52.

seven private Muslim schools that we brought under the state umbrella. We

:19:53.:19:56.

thought that was absolutely the right thing to do. There is a

:19:57.:19:59.

greater control in the state sector than the private-sector. The King

:20:00.:20:08.

Fad school, Arabic textbooks, described using Christian Assad

:20:09.:20:15.

monkeys and a question, was Christianity worthless. It's not an

:20:16.:20:18.

anti-faith school argument I think here. Not least at all for the point

:20:19.:20:22.

I have made. None of these schools were faith schools. Ludicrous having

:20:23.:20:30.

an argument about faith schools. Many faith schools give very good

:20:31.:20:34.

education. To move this away from the Islamic point of view for a

:20:35.:20:39.

moment. I don't think we shall ever sort out the Northern Ireland issue

:20:40.:20:41.

for as long as we have faith schools in Northern Ireland. We will have to

:20:42.:20:45.

leave it there. We are going on to a whole new subject. Thank you for

:20:46.:20:47.

being with us. It's late, but you probably can't

:20:48.:20:59.

sleep, not lying on those anti-homeless spikes, which

:21:00.:21:02.

means - thanks to the uncharitable action of some luxury flat owners -

:21:03.:21:05.

at least one member of our audience is wide-awake for once.

:21:06.:21:07.

Which can only be a good thing because, waiting

:21:08.:21:09.

in the wings, tennis commentator and former pro, Annabel Croft, is here

:21:10.:21:12.

to talk about 'gender blindness'. And

:21:13.:21:14.

for the those who may not be blind, or deaf, but are certainly dumb, you

:21:15.:21:18.

can always follow us on The Twitter, The Fleecebook, and the Interweb.

:21:19.:21:24.

Now, an Brit, a German, a Swede and a Dutchman go out

:21:25.:21:27.

in a boat. Sounds like the start

:21:28.:21:29.

of a dodgy This Week joke. But in fact it actually happened!

:21:30.:21:32.

David Cameron joined a few of his euro mates for a spot of rowing to

:21:33.:21:35.

clear their minds for the task at hand, trying to work out what to do

:21:36.:21:39.

after the dreadful euro elections. Sun Columnist Jane Moore

:21:40.:21:41.

decided to join them. Here's her round up

:21:42.:21:42.

of the political week. Cameron, get out and get your own

:21:43.:21:52.

boat. Angela Merkel might Cameron, get out and get your own

:21:53.:21:57.

to share with him, I'm not. Cameron, get out and get your own

:21:58.:22:01.

rude! Not terribly British behaviour, is it? Boris Johnson

:22:02.:22:11.

expecting a long hot summer of discontent? Well, maybe. He has

:22:12.:22:14.

decided to buy three water cannons for the Met police, a move that

:22:15.:22:20.

could make political waves as Home Secretary, Theresa May, hasn't said

:22:21.:22:23.

they can be used yet. Perhaps this is a little power game by Boris

:22:24.:22:27.

Johnson in the run-up to the election. Naughty, boy! I'm

:22:28.:22:36.

volunteering to undergo the experience that Londoners would

:22:37.:22:41.

experience in the very, very remote eventuality of our having to deploy

:22:42.:22:44.

water cannon. I have said that on the radio this morning. There seems

:22:45.:22:52.

no easy escape from it. I am going to have to do that. Oh, to be in

:22:53.:22:56.

England now that summer is here. to have to do that. Oh, to be in

:22:57.:23:01.

Mind you, it hasn't stopped most of us trying to book a foreign holiday.

:23:02.:23:08.

What do we need, suitcase, suncream, tickets, passport... Oh, hang on a

:23:09.:23:14.

minute! Since January, HMPO has been putting in place extra resources to

:23:15.:23:18.

try to make sure that people receive their new passports in good time.

:23:19.:23:22.

But as the House will know, there are still delays in the system. As

:23:23.:23:27.

the Prime Minister said yesterday - as the Prime Minister said

:23:28.:23:30.

yesterday, the number of straight-forward passport applicants

:23:31.:23:33.

who are being dealt with outside the normal three week waiting time is

:23:34.:23:38.

around 30,000. This is now a sorry shambles from a sorry department and

:23:39.:23:42.

a Home Secretary who can't even bring herself to say the word.

:23:43.:23:46.

Government incompetence means people are at risk of missing their

:23:47.:23:52.

holidays, their honey moons, their businesses, every MP, their business

:23:53.:23:58.

trips, every MP has been inundated with these case. The Home Secretary

:23:59.:24:01.

doesn't seem to know what is going on. Yes the Passport Office is said

:24:02.:24:08.

to be struggling under the weight of extra applications. Basic house

:24:09.:24:11.

keeping task which doesn't bode well for a Prime

:24:12.:24:16.

keeping task which doesn't bode well reelection. No doubt Dave will be

:24:17.:24:24.

straight on to Samcam to check the families passports are up-to-date.

:24:25.:24:28.

If you want something doing - ask a woman, that's what I say! That looks

:24:29.:24:36.

set to be the case more and more with Hillary Clinton doing her best

:24:37.:24:39.

to become the first female President of the US. Britain backing a woman

:24:40.:24:43.

as President of the European Commission and David Cameron's

:24:44.:24:47.

expected reshuffle likely to promote several women. This week the actress

:24:48.:24:53.

Angelina Jolie addressed 300 Government ministers at a global

:24:54.:24:55.

summit to try to end sexual violence. I can speak to these

:24:56.:25:01.

women. A lot of these women, it's not surprising to them, I would be

:25:02.:25:06.

sitting hearing their stories and becoming emotional with them. When

:25:07.:25:09.

they see the Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom, sit with them, a

:25:10.:25:13.

man, it means so much to them. It means even more because it is

:25:14.:25:14.

something they are not used to. Oh, suit yourself. Angela Merkel

:25:15.:25:31.

wasn't putting up with any bad behaviour on her boat. European

:25:32.:25:34.

leaders met to solve their problems after last week's euro elections

:25:35.:25:39.

left them hold under the water line. The big sticking point for change

:25:40.:25:43.

was, who should be President of the European Commission? David Cameron

:25:44.:25:46.

said that the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker might mean that

:25:47.:25:50.

Britain would leave the European Union. Captain Merkel was putting up

:25:51.:25:55.

with with no such threats. She said they were against the European

:25:56.:26:00.

spirit - whatever that means! TRANSLATION: Regarding the fact I'm

:26:01.:26:05.

supporting Jean-Claude Juncker all our decisions are made within a

:26:06.:26:09.

European spirit. We cannot just take this for granted and threats are not

:26:10.:26:15.

part of our way of doing things. Gordon Brown, remember him, the

:26:16.:26:20.

former captain of the good old ship Britannia, he went off message,

:26:21.:26:24.

rethe campaign for Scotland not to break away from the UK. Attacking

:26:25.:26:29.

David Cameron for saying that a vote for independence might result in

:26:30.:26:33.

huge job losses. Brown reckons the MP has made the debate about

:26:34.:26:38.

Scotland verses the rest of Britain. At least they know they have a bit

:26:39.:26:42.

of magic to help them with the vote now. Harry Potter author JK Rowling

:26:43.:26:56.

has doe noted ?1 million to the no campaign. Not everyone thinks it is

:26:57.:27:02.

a good idea. She is entitled to express her views. If it comes to

:27:03.:27:06.

people in the artistic community the feeling would be the substantial

:27:07.:27:10.

majority are backing the Yes cause. A muted response compared to the

:27:11.:27:17.

cyber knats who hurled online abuse at her. Proved when it comes to

:27:18.:27:21.

measured and political debate they really are all at sea. Perhaps she

:27:22.:27:30.

could just tell them to QUACK off. Is like this programme, always

:27:31.:27:36.

paddling very hard. Miranda joins us again. Alan, you have been Home

:27:37.:27:43.

Secretary. This passport crisis, They come along regularly. The

:27:44.:27:47.

surprise is this is in the Passport Office. That was a quiet back water.

:27:48.:27:52.

It was the most successful computerisation programme we ever

:27:53.:27:56.

saw under Jack Straw. The guilt has come off the Theresa May Gingerbread

:27:57.:28:01.

a bit this week. What surprises me, I know that we have a big fan

:28:02.:28:05.

sitting opposite here. What surprises me is - And here, by the

:28:06.:28:10.

way. OK. There is a mess in the Passport Office. There was a row,

:28:11.:28:15.

the row with Gove, it seems Theresa May was the biggest culprit, Michael

:28:16.:28:19.

had a lunch with the Times and said too much. We have all done that! The

:28:20.:28:27.

response was amazing. There are two dangerous people out there, one of

:28:28.:28:31.

them was lost two years ago, the other one was lost eight months ago.

:28:32.:28:35.

Both on control waters that were watered down by the Home Secretary.

:28:36.:28:39.

Previous Home Secretaries would have gone on the strength of that. It's

:28:40.:28:43.

quite strange that the big problem with Theresa May seems to be about,

:28:44.:28:47.

you know, less serious things than terrorism. What is the case for May

:28:48.:28:54.

in this? Is I think they is interesting. That is not a case. I

:28:55.:28:59.

thought her speech to the Police Federation was compelent. She did

:29:00.:29:03.

something which Cabinet ministers do rarely at the moment, speak to the

:29:04.:29:11.

public - That will not help you if you want to get abroad on your one

:29:12.:29:15.

summer holiday and you can't get a passport. I agree. I don't think

:29:16.:29:20.

this is a first rank offence for a Cabinet Minister for there to be

:29:21.:29:24.

problems at the Passport Office. It might get worse, I think this idea

:29:25.:29:29.

it is - it is open season on Theresa May because of her spat with Gove.

:29:30.:29:36.

She has had adoring press and media for years. It will take more than

:29:37.:29:43.

this for me to fall by the wayside. The Home Office is a machine whose

:29:44.:29:48.

default position is to crash. The Home Office's default position is

:29:49.:29:54.

shambles unless you control it. She must have taken her eye off the

:29:55.:29:59.

ball. The Passport Office was an office that was shambolic a few

:30:00.:30:02.

years ago. Sorted out. A magnificent success. I suspect there has been a

:30:03.:30:06.

problem with the management. The Chief Executive has been there a

:30:07.:30:10.

year. There has been a change of management am she must be blamed for

:30:11.:30:13.

taking her eye off the ball. She will get hold of it. Is she a good

:30:14.:30:19.

Home Secretary? On the whole, yes. That is why she Is she survived. A

:30:20.:30:26.

good Home Secretary. No. Yes. 2-1. I haven't got a vote. Previous Home

:30:27.:30:32.

Secretaries carry more votes. That is not proportional. Now we know the

:30:33.:30:37.

Lib Dems don't talk about it any more.

:30:38.:30:47.

blasted by water cannon to reassure Londoners it is safe. Have you

:30:48.:30:55.

applied to be the man who fires it? He has! I am not sure Boris is wrong

:30:56.:31:04.

about this. We might need water cannon at some time. Boris also said

:31:05.:31:09.

something I agree with this week, which was that he could not see the

:31:10.:31:18.

point of trying to stop the president of the European

:31:19.:31:21.

Commission, because whoever takes over the whole thing is Federalist.

:31:22.:31:24.

He said was trying to remove a gnat from the knee of a rhino standing on

:31:25.:31:29.

chest. Can we keep to the chronology. We are coming on to that

:31:30.:31:35.

in a minute. He tells the jokes ahead, and you get onto the next

:31:36.:31:38.

subject! Should we have water cannon? No, I don't think so. The

:31:39.:31:46.

police were telling me when I was Home Secretary, unanimously,

:31:47.:31:49.

everyone I asked, because it was floating around even before I came

:31:50.:31:53.

in, everyone said no, and for good reasons. Actually, it needs to be a

:31:54.:31:59.

certain type of situation, with protesters, by the way, this is

:32:00.:32:02.

about people protesting on our streets that they are thinking of

:32:03.:32:10.

using water cannon against. Hold on. That is the whole point. Police

:32:11.:32:12.

said, if it is rioters, as in 2011, That is the whole point. Police

:32:13.:32:19.

it would not work, because they were mobile, not static. It is for static

:32:20.:32:23.

demonstrations. There is something not petition about this. It would

:32:24.:32:25.

take a lot to persuade me but not petition about this. It would

:32:26.:32:33.

unanimity amongst the police. They were against it in 2011. Mr Clegg is

:32:34.:32:38.

against it, I think, but not in position to stop it. I don't think

:32:39.:32:45.

it is a good idea. Getting into an arms race with the public is not a

:32:46.:32:48.

great idea because what you are talking about is how the police

:32:49.:32:52.

control citizens when they are out of hand, not some sort of hostile

:32:53.:32:58.

attack. I think Nick Clegg is quite right to say no, actually. It is

:32:59.:33:03.

quite uncharacteristic of Boris Johnson to say yes to this. The Home

:33:04.:33:06.

Secretary has to approve it. Johnson to say yes to this. The Home

:33:07.:33:15.

and she must be livid. It is a coincidence, isn't it? Let's come on

:33:16.:33:25.

to the European Commission. Will David Cameron get his way and

:33:26.:33:28.

managed to stop, even if you think it does not matter, along with

:33:29.:33:32.

Boris, will he get his way and be able to stop him or not? It doesn't

:33:33.:33:39.

look like it. I would have thought the chances of not being able to

:33:40.:33:43.

stop it are so high that it seems unwise to have gone out

:33:44.:33:49.

stop it are so high that it seems want as president of the European

:33:50.:33:49.

Commission? They want as president of the European

:33:50.:34:02.

Nick Clegg has been very careful to back David Cameron all the way

:34:03.:34:07.

Nick Clegg has been very careful to this. What is the difference between

:34:08.:34:07.

this one and the Dutchman? He this. What is the difference between

:34:08.:34:14.

think Michael this. What is the difference between

:34:15.:34:17.

about this is how much capital David Cameron is expending on something he

:34:18.:34:22.

might not win. It is all very well saying there is this new alliance of

:34:23.:34:25.

northern countries with a different attitude to Europe, but if you can't

:34:26.:34:29.

actually fight against the great Mike of Angela Merkel, where are you

:34:30.:34:35.

going? It is only in the Westminster village that people talk of

:34:36.:34:38.

political capital for and against him. No one else has heard

:34:39.:34:42.

political capital for and against and nobody cares. Well,

:34:43.:34:44.

political capital for and against to achieve something through

:34:45.:34:45.

negotiation, or not? Someone ought to achieve something through

:34:46.:34:49.

to sit down with David Cameron and give him a session on the art of

:34:50.:34:53.

negotiation. The tragedy is that people who do not want Junker have

:34:54.:34:58.

negotiation. The tragedy is that had their job made more difficult by

:34:59.:35:00.

not just what David Cameron has done, but also because the British

:35:01.:35:02.

media jumping in as well done, but also because the British

:35:03.:35:06.

size 12 hobnailed boots, made it very difficult for the people who

:35:07.:35:12.

actually want to quietly negotiate a different person, and

:35:13.:35:14.

actually want to quietly negotiate a agreement about not wanting him,

:35:15.:35:15.

actually want to quietly negotiate a they have made it more difficult. It

:35:16.:35:22.

seems amazingly crass and clumsy. Michael, former Treasury Minister,

:35:23.:35:26.

Governor Carney, Bank of England, gave a speech tonight in which he

:35:27.:35:33.

said something rather strange for a speech at this event. He said

:35:34.:35:37.

interest rate rises "could happen sooner rather but gross sooner than

:35:38.:35:44.

the markets expect". Since the markets have been bringing forward

:35:45.:35:48.

when they expect interest rates to rise, this means it could be even

:35:49.:35:53.

sooner, meaning sometime this year. That is apparently what it would

:35:54.:35:56.

mean. I would have thought the markets would have thought whatever

:35:57.:36:00.

the economics were dictating, political reasons would tell you

:36:01.:36:02.

that the rise in interest rates would be after May 2015, after the

:36:03.:36:07.

general election. He is correcting that. I think he is not doing so

:36:08.:36:12.

because he thinks interest rates will rise before the general

:36:13.:36:15.

election, but because he hopes that making these comments will in

:36:16.:36:20.

themselves douse the housing market. I knew we would get an explanation.

:36:21.:36:22.

Miranda, thank you. Now, ITV is in trouble for paying

:36:23.:36:28.

students with less money than sense to drink up to 48 units of alcohol

:36:29.:36:31.

as part of a TV experiment. Now, we know all

:36:32.:36:34.

about getting blind drunk for light entertainment, but that's not

:36:35.:36:36.

the only blindness we suffer from. It's a wonder we can find

:36:37.:36:39.

the studio given our inability to spot a conversational blind alley,

:36:40.:36:42.

or the fact nobody takes a blind bit of notice of Alan and Michael.

:36:43.:36:50.

And don't let Miranda fool you, her effing and blinding would make

:36:51.:36:56.

a sailor blush! Fortunately, we're also blind

:36:57.:36:58.

when it comes to guests, and that's why we're putting gender

:36:59.:37:00.

blindness in this week's Spotlight. Andy Murray has a new coach, and no

:37:01.:37:20.

need for new balls. He appointed former women's tennis ace, Amer Lee

:37:21.:37:25.

Morris Mo, raising some eyebrows and even objections. But Murray does not

:37:26.:37:34.

see the big deal. It does not feel very different thing for me to do. I

:37:35.:37:39.

was not paying my mum, so this will be a bit different, because

:37:40.:37:45.

obviously I be employing her. I think it is exciting. Before

:37:46.:37:58.

Wimbledon, as players and coaches gather in Brazil, the lack of

:37:59.:38:02.

visible women in the beautiful game is striking. Hillary Clinton has

:38:03.:38:07.

never been afraid of challenging those who think it is a man's world.

:38:08.:38:13.

As her new book promotes her leadership qualities, would anyone

:38:14.:38:17.

still be surprised if America's next president was a woman? The

:38:18.:38:24.

Conservatives can already boast having had a woman leader, and if

:38:25.:38:28.

Theresa May gets her way they may yet have another. But her gender

:38:29.:38:32.

seems far less relevant than her competence. So just how gender blind

:38:33.:38:40.

are we now in sport, culture and politics? Are we coming to a time

:38:41.:38:44.

where we no longer express surprise that a woman can do a better job

:38:45.:38:52.

than a man? We are joined by Annabel Croft. Welcome to the programme. Why

:38:53.:38:56.

was it such a big deal that Andy Murray chose a woman as his new

:38:57.:39:03.

coach? Because we have not seen it before with a top player in the

:39:04.:39:07.

world. It is extremely unusual, thinking outside the box, very left

:39:08.:39:11.

field. He has always done things a bit differently. He has been very

:39:12.:39:15.

clever with whom he has chosen to coach him. It has always been a

:39:16.:39:21.

success. It was very surprising. Many people have tweeted in and said

:39:22.:39:26.

it would not be this way if it was, why are we talking about it just

:39:27.:39:30.

because she is a woman. But we were equally intrigued when he chose his

:39:31.:39:35.

previous coach, and that was very interesting when he appointed him.

:39:36.:39:39.

It is a fascinating appointment, and I am more interested in why he chose

:39:40.:39:42.

her and what he wants to get out of her. He seems the only one who does

:39:43.:39:47.

not think it is a big deal, thinks it is quite normal. His mother has

:39:48.:39:53.

been such an influence in his tennis career and was a very good coach

:39:54.:39:57.

right at the beginning. She has been instrumental in guiding his career.

:39:58.:40:00.

He has enormous respect for his mother. This is a former world

:40:01.:40:06.

number one, former Wimbledon champion, Australian open champion.

:40:07.:40:10.

But something tells me he is after something other than tactics. He is

:40:11.:40:14.

one of the best tacticians in the game. He has said himself, may more

:40:15.:40:20.

sensitivity, the emotional side of things. It is intriguing. But maybe

:40:21.:40:26.

we should not be surprised because tennis is one of the few sports

:40:27.:40:29.

where the women's side of the game is just as popular as the men's

:40:30.:40:35.

side, and just as important and gets just as much coverage. Female tennis

:40:36.:40:38.

players are incredibly fortunate because it is thought of in equal

:40:39.:40:44.

terms. They make equal prize money. There was an argument for a while.

:40:45.:40:51.

Yes, but now it has equalled. At the end of the day, these things are on

:40:52.:40:56.

a business footing. If it sustains itself through the TV coverage, TV

:40:57.:41:01.

ratings, the sponsorship, that all has to be in place. When other

:41:02.:41:06.

sports look at gender issues, that would be my argument, as long as it

:41:07.:41:10.

backs up from a business point of view, that is fine. There are other

:41:11.:41:16.

sports where we are not so gender blind. Like what? Football. England

:41:17.:41:23.

has a successful women's team, more successful than the men, and you

:41:24.:41:31.

never hear of it. Why is that? You do hear of it. It is growing. I am

:41:32.:41:40.

more aware than I was before. I can only assume that until the ratings

:41:41.:41:45.

for the coverage come up, the business side will then slotted into

:41:46.:41:50.

place. I think the women's cricket team is also more successful than

:41:51.:41:59.

the men. Are we gender blind yet? Partly. In your package, we did not

:42:00.:42:05.

mention Angela Merkel. Angela Merkel has dominated European politics for

:42:06.:42:08.

eight years and probably will throw another three or four, and this is

:42:09.:42:14.

not commented upon. We were talking about junk at a moment ago and we

:42:15.:42:18.

know that the key figure in that decision is Angela Merkel. We have

:42:19.:42:22.

not had a British female Defence Secretary Lord Chancellor. We have

:42:23.:42:28.

the first female minister in the Ministry of Defence, and that is a

:42:29.:42:34.

breakthrough. I wish we did have gender blindness. We don't. If you

:42:35.:42:38.

look at the top FTSE 100 companies that do not have a single woman on

:42:39.:42:48.

their board, it is extraordinary. I understand that Andy Murray lost

:42:49.:42:54.

today at Queens. Did you watch? I didn't. Can we blame the coach? Not

:42:55.:43:01.

just yet. It is the second match she has watched. I am sure she will have

:43:02.:43:05.

plenty to say about it but we will not blame her yet. Only if he loses

:43:06.:43:11.

Wimbledon. I think he has a good chance to retain his title.

:43:12.:43:17.

That's your lot for tonight folks. But not for us,

:43:18.:43:20.

because it's British Values night at Lou Lou's and we're off to get

:43:21.:43:24.

legless, start a fight and spill chilli sauce and kebab meat down

:43:25.:43:27.

our shirts, like all true patriots. But we leave you tonight

:43:28.:43:28.

with some studs. No, not Alan and Michael.

:43:29.:43:32.

No, we leave you with a modern-day fairytale.

:43:33.:43:35.

Forget the princess and the pea, think the homeless man

:43:36.:43:37.

and the spike. Nighty-night, don't let

:43:38.:43:40.

the fact you have a nice warm bed and a roof over your head bite.

:43:41.:44:19.

I wish that love could come into my life.

:44:20.:44:23.

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