14/01/2016 This Week


14/01/2016

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Tonight on This Week, we diagnose a medical drama.

:00:09.:00:13.

Emergency in the NHS as Junior Doctors go on strike.

:00:14.:00:17.

But who will be the biggest casualty?

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Doctor and Bake Off heartthrob Tamal Ray is playing Operation.

:00:23.:00:27.

The stakes are high, for this guy and they NHS, and that's why I

:00:28.:00:32.

support the junior doctors strike. It's not only the health

:00:33.:00:34.

of the nation the Prime Minister is worried about, but the health

:00:35.:00:37.

of his campaign to keep Sky's Adam Boulton

:00:38.:00:39.

is taking the pulse. Is David Cameron's EU prescription

:00:40.:00:52.

but for the health of the nation? -- good for the health of the nation.

:00:53.:01:00.

And mental health is back in the news this week

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as the Prime Minister claims it's a Government priority.

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Singer and former Girls Aloud band member, Nicola Roberts

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I've been taking the pulse on mental health care, and we need to put more

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signs of life into it. Are there any signs

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of life left in This Week? Welcome to This Week,

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a week in which, I kid you not, the Shadow Politburo

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reshuffle is still going on. Yes, no sooner did Comrade Jezza

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think he had all his apparatchiks in a row at last than yet another

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loyal member chose to exile themselves, leaving him

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with a fresh vacancy to fill. There are Labour MPs still sitting

:01:30.:01:32.

by their phones in the hope Jezza And others who've dared not

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answer their phones since the start of the year, for fear

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that he'd do just that. If this goes on much longer

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there are fellow travellers as-yet-unborn who could well

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feature in this reshuffle. Just as posh folk put their kids

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down for Eton the moment the little brat is born, I understand

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fashionable families in Islington are now putting forward

:01:55.:01:56.

the names of their new-born There's certainly no

:01:57.:01:59.

shortage of places. There are not one, not two,

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but three Labour MPs with the title shadow minister for

:02:05.:02:07.

women and equalities. But it turns out only one is allowed

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to attend the shadow cabinet. Some equalities ministers,

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it would seem, are more I'm joined on the sofa tonight

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by two Westminster love birds, fully engaged in

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the battle of ideas. Think of them as the Jerry Hall

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and the Rupert Murdoch I speak, of course, of #jesswecan

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Jess Phillips and #sadmanonatrain Michael, your moment of the week? A

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series of moments. I've been asking politically wise people, whether

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Britain would actually leave the EU. The vast majority of these wise men

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and women think it would not happen. The British government would not go

:02:57.:03:00.

so quietly and the European Union would certainly not go so quietly.

:03:01.:03:04.

What would happen would be what has happened in most European referendum

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is where the voters turn out happened in most European referendum

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wrong way from the establishment, there would be a further

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renegotiation and a further referendum and a chance for people

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to get it right a second time. If you accept what this is, a fairly

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common-sense point of view, I think, the only rational thing to do is

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vote to leave. Only at that point do you get a proper renegotiation and

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the possibility of proper settlement. That might explain why

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the Chancellor said on Newsnight tonight, this is the only proper

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referendum. If you believe that, you tonight, this is the only proper

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will believe anything. I am quite gullible. My moment was the release

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of the transgender report in Parliament in the week that David

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Bowie died, 30 years on from the gender politics that he took on,

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parliament finally catching up. Now, junior doctors went

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on strike this week, downing stethoscopes

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for the first time in 40 years. The dispute centres on a proposed

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new contract for medics and a further two strikes

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are planned, with the final due Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt says

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he wants a seven-day NHS. The doctors claim it's about making

:04:08.:04:12.

them work more unsafe hours The details have left many people

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more baffled than Diane Abbott after 45 minutes

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on the This Week sofa. So here to give us his diagnosis

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Great British Bake Off finalist, and junior doctor, Tamal Ray,

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with his take of the week. I can't get blood pressure

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on him, there are no SATS. He's lost loads of blood,

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we need to get an ABG. We need to bring him

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round for a scan. Time is running out

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for this guy, but It's because I love our health care

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service, that as junior doctor, The government, playing on public

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fears of understaffing, claims it wants to

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have a seven-day NHS. The NHS already offers free,

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world-class emergency care, Sure, if you want elective surgery,

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a butterfly in your stomach removed on a Sunday lunchtime,

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you might have to wait a bit. But if you have a medical

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emergency, you will always We would love to provide a seven-day

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elective service as well, but to do so would require a 40%

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increase in staffing and resources. Where is the money for that

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going to come from? Also, we are in danger

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of doctors having much more than shaky hands

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if the government succeeds in removing financial

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penalties for hospitals that force doctors

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to work unsafe rotas. These penalties are a vital

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protection against unsafe hours. Reclassifying normal working hours,

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to include 7am-10 PM on Saturday, could see us working every

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Saturday of the year. That means never getting

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a weekend to see our family We might be doctors,

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but we are just ordinary people who want the same thing

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as everybody else. Everybody has a breaking point,

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and I feel like this contract The government say this

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is all about doctors being greedy It's about protecting a national

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institution and making There has been a lot of spin,

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but I think this is all about cutting costs in the NHS

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to make it easier for private In which case, it will be

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the patients who lose out. From the operating table

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to our own little half-baked operation here in Westminster,

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Dr Tamal Ray joins us now. Welcome to the programme. What did

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the strike on Tuesday achieved? I hope it achieved getting the public

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to be exactly aware of what we are striking about. I hope it will bring

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the government to the table and bring about more meaningful

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negotiations than the one we've had up until this point. Do you think

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that would happen before the next strike which is a couple of weeks

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away? I hope so, a couple of weeks is quite a long time. I'm been told

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that progress was made in the talks over Christmas. Are the doctors

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right to strike, Jess? If I was a doctor at the moment I would

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definitely go and strike. I think the government has utterly failed in

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negotiations. They pushed for the negotiations, sat around the table,

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and Jeremy Hunt completely failed to get to a reasonable agreement with

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them. I think they are right to strike. Should it have aimed for

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what it wants to achieve in the first place? Should it be trying

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what it wants to achieve in the get more than just emergency cover

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at weekends? I think it's a total myth that the NHS doesn't operate 24

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hours per day. Both my children were born at two o'clock in the morning,

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there were doctors and nurses there. We know that, there is always

:08:06.:08:09.

emergency cover at weekends and some elective cover as well. But the

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government's aim was to have more, to make it a seven-day pearl week

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operation. It's about priorities. It will take more money if that's what

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they want to do. That's fine if that is the priority, but it will take a

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huge amount of money to cover the staffing instead of knocking junior

:08:30.:08:33.

doctors, and the nurses down the line. There are other huge problems

:08:34.:08:38.

in the NHS they are not dealing with. This election pledge...? The

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government is right and the doctors are completely wrong. You are more

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likely to die if you are admitted to emergency over the weekend and that

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is intolerable in the 21st century. Doctors ought to be more keen,

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because they have supposedly taken me Hippocratic oath. Supposedly

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their biggest concern in the world is the safety of patients. Most of

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the issues in the negotiations have been settled. It isn't the

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government the negotiating table, it's the junior doctors who have not

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shown up. There has been a pay rise in the basic pay for doctors, and

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shown up. There has been a pay rise doctors should be available seven

:09:25.:09:25.

days per week. There's nothing puzzling about this, it doesn't mean

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working Saturday over the year. Lots of people work seven days per week,

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it doesn't mean they work every Saturday or Sunday, but sensible

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arrangements are made so a plane is likely to be flown safely at the

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weekend that any other day. The current contract we have at the

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moment provides for us the current contract at the moment provides for

:09:53.:09:58.

others to allow emergency care at the weekend. You're talking about

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providing health care in elective services over the weekend. It's a

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fantastic game, and we would embrace that as a profession, but if you

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want to provide that you have to have the personnel and resources to

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do it. We need doctors, nurses, physios, all the other people as

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well. We also need social care that can discharge all these people at

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the weekend. You could have 20 doctors to every patient in a

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hospital but without... How has the striking helped to achieve this? The

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negotiation was continuing and most of the points have been settled.

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It's all good enough saying this without going into elective care. We

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have 11,000 extra deaths at the weekend. Elective care is routine

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knee operations, that will not stop people buying at the weekend. I

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understand that, but you should be standing up to the government and

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wanting to get rid of this higher chance of dying at the weekend. What

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are you basing this higher chance of dying at the weekend? The figures

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are disputed. The authors of that paper and the BMA... That's the

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11,000 figures Jeremy Hunt has been using. It's a misinterpretation of

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the figure, the statistics. The paper showed that patients admitted

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Friday to Monday, within 30 days of their stay at a slightly increased

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rate of mortality, but the authors of the paper said it would be rash

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to conclude this was because of staffing. They said it's something

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that should be looked into, but no conclusions could be made. There is

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no paper that says the lack of doctors at the weekend is a cause of

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increased mortality at the weekend. We need to do more research to look

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into this, but to base these contract reforms on a

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misinterpretation of the paper is wrong. I thought that what is

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misinterpretation of the paper is we were basing these reforms on.

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Jeremy Hunt is. When the government is trying to put patient safety

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first, how are you improving patient safety by going on strike? I want to

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ask you a question now. There is a general acceptance that if the NHS

:12:19.:12:24.

could do it, care should be seen over seven days, many services are

:12:25.:12:29.

now seamless. Going back to our guest's point, I don't see how you

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can do that, provide the same care at the weekend as you do in the

:12:34.:12:38.

week, without an increase in resources. Inevitably it would take

:12:39.:12:44.

more money. He's already having to work hard enough during the week. If

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he spread more evenly over seven days, it will hit the week. You need

:12:51.:12:55.

more doctors and more money. The government started by offering an

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11% rise in basic pay. For extra hours each day, the rate goes up for

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time and a half. On Sundays the rate goes up again. The overall page

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doesn't change. Many people watching this programme will say, I wouldn't

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mind getting time and a half at the weekend or for extra hours at the

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end of the day. I think what will happen as a result of this is that

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the junior doctors will end happen as a result of this is that

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or a set of people that were once regarded as professionals, with very

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high esteem among the public, but because they take industrial action,

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they lose their rationalism and esteem. Professionals do not go on

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strike, it defines a professional. You bulk at the idea it's about

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patient safety, but it really is. When we went on strike this week we

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still provided emergency care. Allsorts of headlines about this

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being an issue of patient safety, but the emergency care we provide is

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the same as every bank holiday. No patients

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the same as every bank holiday. No third strike you would not, are you

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more nervous about that? We would still have extra consultants being

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drafted in to provide that care. Even though junior doctors might

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provide a full walk-out, there would still be experienced clinicians

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providing that care. Do you think any patient would be at risk? I

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don't think they would be. Even with withdrawal of emergency cover?

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Withdrawal of emergency cover by junior doctors at consultants will

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still be there. I have people in my constituency

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waiting two-and-a-half years For appointments. Jeremy Hunt is the

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first person we should be taking on, not hard-working doctors in the

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hospital. We fought an election in this. They didn't mention the

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two-and-a-half year waiting list for kids trying to commit suicide. Your

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party didn't have resources for the National Health Service. They did.

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All of them did. It's talking about spreading the existing resours out

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more thinly across the week. We are already struggling to provide the

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five-day service, the full service, elected service during the week. We

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are not going to be able to provide a better service over the weekend if

:15:29.:15:32.

that service is spread more thinly. In terms of patient safety, this is

:15:33.:15:38.

not just about a contract, it's about protecting the NHS for future

:15:39.:15:40.

generations. After us, the reason why the junior doctors have received

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such unanimous support, ODPs, consultants GPs, nurses, they are

:15:48.:15:51.

all on our side in a way I've never seen before since I've been a medic

:15:52.:15:56.

and that's not been seen in decades and that's because people know they

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are next in the firing line. This contract will be rolled out in some

:15:59.:16:02.

form or another for everyone working in the NHS. It will destroy morale

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for people already working flat out to keep a system afloat. I think

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it's going to be a complete disaster. I would love if we could

:16:10.:16:13.

move forward with the Government and have some true reform of the NHS,

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but this is not the way to go about it.

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What would true reform be? We need to take this out of Party Politics.

:16:23.:16:27.

I would like to see committees from all political parties together with

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doctors and relevant workers within the NHS sit down and consider all

:16:32.:16:35.

the options. I'm not saying - we have talked about private health

:16:36.:16:41.

care having a role within the NHS - the NHS has become such a toxic

:16:42.:16:50.

issue. Any time anyone says NHS and reform in the same sentence, we are

:16:51.:16:52.

all there with our pitchforks and it's insane. We need an honest

:16:53.:16:56.

debate about this. Thank you for being part of the debate tonight.

:16:57.:16:59.

Thank you for having me. Now it's late - Ed Miliband

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thigh tattoo late - so even if your mother doesn't

:17:03.:17:04.

approve, stick with us. Because waiting in the wings,

:17:05.:17:08.

singer and campaigner, Nicola Roberts is here,

:17:09.:17:10.

to make her voice heard on the topic Despite what the BBC

:17:11.:17:14.

would like you to believe, we're still paying absolutely no

:17:15.:17:19.

attention to anything you say on The Twitter, The Fleecebook

:17:20.:17:23.

MySpace Your Space, SnapTalks, Telescope or even our

:17:24.:17:25.

former Great Leader's World Wide Web Now, we enjoy excellent industrial

:17:26.:17:28.

relations here on This Week. For instance, Jess is no trouble

:17:29.:17:32.

at all, one five minute tea break, and a bag of cheesy Quavers

:17:33.:17:36.

on expenses, and she's good-to-go. Well, for a former leading light

:17:37.:17:39.

of the Thatcherite right, he makes Green Room demands

:17:40.:17:44.

that would make a 1970s I mean exactly why is

:17:45.:17:47.

coconut-scented massage oil Anyway with workplace strife

:17:48.:17:51.

all the rage elsewhere, we decided to call up

:17:52.:17:56.

some emergency cover. Here's Sky News' Adam Boulton,

:17:57.:17:59.

with his Round-Up of It's all go here thanks to those

:18:00.:18:26.

junior doctors and their 24-hour strike. Then we've got our own

:18:27.:18:33.

winter crisis on This Week. A shortage of late-night viewers. And

:18:34.:18:38.

those we have got winding up here in the ward comatosed as a result of

:18:39.:18:41.

clunky jokes. Any signs of life, nurse? No, their signs are not

:18:42.:18:49.

looking too clever, doctor. We'd better have a look. Well, not

:18:50.:18:53.

surprisingly, many top consultants at Westminster were expecting the

:18:54.:18:57.

Leader of the Opposition to concentrate on the NHS at PMQs. But

:18:58.:19:04.

Mr Corbyn likes to surprise and instead he zeroed in on the Prime

:19:05.:19:12.

Minister's new plans to bulldoze sink estates. Come on, open up. He

:19:13.:19:19.

hasn't clearly thought this thing through very carefully because every

:19:20.:19:27.

estate that he announces he wishes to bulldoze will include tenants and

:19:28.:19:31.

people that have bought their homes under right-to-buy. Will those

:19:32.:19:36.

people, the lease holders, will they be guaranteed homes on their rebuilt

:19:37.:19:42.

estates that he's proposing to do? Look, of course, I accept this isn't

:19:43.:19:46.

as carefully thought through as his reshuffle. Hm. Well, not very smooth

:19:47.:19:52.

for Jeremy Corbyn. David Cameron walked through that one, but the

:19:53.:19:59.

Leader of the Opposition knows the Government's hardly delivered on

:20:00.:20:09.

their housing promises. How's he doing? The Prime Minister said they

:20:10.:20:14.

can campaign from within the Cabinet against the EU but only once he's

:20:15.:20:19.

reached a deal and that, of course, gives the pro-Europeans massive head

:20:20.:20:22.

starts. The position of the whole Government

:20:23.:20:26.

is that we should renegotiate, hold a referendum and that the best

:20:27.:20:30.

outcome would be to keep Britain in a reformed European Union. That is

:20:31.:20:34.

the position of the Government, so anyone sitting in this chair from my

:20:35.:20:40.

team should be making that argument. Thank you, nurse...

:20:41.:20:44.

First Cabinet Minister out of the traps was Chris Grayling. Senior job

:20:45.:20:50.

leader of the House, but sometimes know as Grey-thing to his

:20:51.:20:56.

non-admirers. He didn't burst a full blood vessel and didn't say Britain

:20:57.:21:01.

should come out come what may, but his critics still weighed in. I

:21:02.:21:05.

don't think Chris is right. I think that there are some myths pedalled

:21:06.:21:10.

in his article. It's a bit surprising he says that where we are

:21:11.:21:14.

is disastrous. # Trust me, trust me

:21:15.:21:17.

# I'm a doctor # I know, I know what I'm doing... #

:21:18.:21:34.

Well, speaking of panning, there were mixed reviews from Kong gross

:21:35.:21:40.

for President Obama's last State of the Union address. Even admitting he

:21:41.:21:46.

didn't have the unifying skills of Franklin Roosevelt, he spent an

:21:47.:21:50.

awful lot of time talking about a certain unnamed Republican candidate

:21:51.:21:57.

to come. When politicians insult Muslims, whether abroad or our

:21:58.:22:02.

fellow citizens, when a mosque is vandalised or a kid is called names,

:22:03.:22:08.

it doesn't make us safer, that's not telling it like it is. It's just

:22:09.:22:16.

wrong. It diminishes us in the eyes of the world.

:22:17.:22:28.

Obama's obviously concerned about his legally and so perhaps is David

:22:29.:22:35.

Cameron beginning to be. Problem is, both face a really chronic crisis.

:22:36.:22:42.

The situation in Syria, even his own backbenchers are worried. And there

:22:43.:22:47.

was a tetchy exchange over the Prime Minister's claim that there are

:22:48.:22:50.

70,000 moderates on the ground in Syria ready to fight IS. Some do

:22:51.:22:55.

belong to Islamist groups and some belong to relatively hard line

:22:56.:22:59.

Islamist groups. They are not all the sort of people you'd bump into

:23:00.:23:02.

at Liberal Democrat Party Conference, correct. In the Middle

:23:03.:23:05.

East, the problems of history keep on coming back to life. Nurse, try

:23:06.:23:11.

and get this lot back to bed. Lower oil prices may be good news at the

:23:12.:23:16.

pumps but they increase economic instability and then there's Iran,

:23:17.:23:21.

taking hostages again, but readmitted to the diplomatic

:23:22.:23:24.

community. # Trust me, trust me

:23:25.:23:28.

# I'm a doctor # Trust me, trust me... #

:23:29.:23:34.

Not another one... At least there was some good news this week. West

:23:35.:23:42.

Africa declared ebola free, but the European Union, the Middle East, the

:23:43.:23:46.

NHS, the housing crisis, are going to be with us for months to come, if

:23:47.:23:52.

not years. Dr Cameron is no Dr Finlay with a cure in every episode.

:23:53.:24:00.

Well, drastic times call for drastic measures. Nurse, marvellous

:24:01.:24:06.

medicine... Dr Adam Boulton on his rounds

:24:07.:24:17.

at Kingston University in London. No patients were in any way helped

:24:18.:24:20.

during the making of that film. Welcome. On Europe, the dice is cast

:24:21.:24:38.

now, the Prime Minister is going to come back with some kind of deal,

:24:39.:24:42.

he's going to back that deal, he's going to campaign to keep us in the

:24:43.:24:49.

European Union and about five or six Cabinet Ministers are going to peel

:24:50.:24:53.

off for the duration of the campaign against, that's what is going to

:24:54.:24:59.

happen, isn't it? Absolutely. And, does it matter for those who want to

:25:00.:25:03.

stay in that five or six Cabinet Ministers are going to campaign

:25:04.:25:07.

against? Is that a game-changer for the referendum? It's not a

:25:08.:25:12.

game-changer. It's obviously very useful to the leave campaign that

:25:13.:25:16.

there'll be six members of the Cabinet or thereabouts campaigning

:25:17.:25:20.

to leave. As I said on the programme last week, obviously the tactic that

:25:21.:25:25.

will be employed by the Government, as always employed in the

:25:26.:25:31.

referendums, is to try toe make the people who don't want to do what the

:25:32.:25:36.

establishment want, so if today's current Cabinet are campaigning to

:25:37.:25:39.

leave, it's harder to describe the leave campaign as a loony or a

:25:40.:25:42.

fringe campaign. Will the Shadow Cabinet be 100% for

:25:43.:25:46.

staying in? Gosh, I don't know who is in it any more, it's hard to keep

:25:47.:25:51.

up. Yes, I think the Labour Party, there's a fringe element in the

:25:52.:25:54.

Labour Party that sort of... The back benches? Yes, they tend to be

:25:55.:25:58.

on the back benches. Maybe not as vehemently as it might have been in

:25:59.:26:03.

the past but it will definitely be an in-campaign. I think it's funny

:26:04.:26:08.

the idea that Michael thinks Cabinet members in this campaign is going to

:26:09.:26:14.

sway the British public. Most people wouldn't know who they were and will

:26:15.:26:16.

base their views on either fear or the fact that you will have to queue

:26:17.:26:20.

longer at customs and won't be able to get net flix when you are in

:26:21.:26:27.

Spain. You can get it now, but you couldn't if we were not in Europe.

:26:28.:26:31.

It's a deal-breaker. How significant if there is a chunk of Conservative

:26:32.:26:35.

Cabinet Ministers joining the outs? It depends who the Conservative

:26:36.:26:42.

Cabinet Ministers are. With all due respect to Chris Grayling and

:26:43.:26:46.

Theresa Villiers, they are not big beasts and one of the problems the

:26:47.:26:53.

leave campaign has at the moment is, it doesn't have a high-profile

:26:54.:26:54.

leader. I don't know if Michael might like the job, but at the

:26:55.:27:01.

moment, David Cameron has taken the sting out of Cabinet Ministers

:27:02.:27:05.

supporting leaving Europe because it's not a martyrdom issue and there

:27:06.:27:11.

isn't a big issue there. If Theresa May were to go across, that could

:27:12.:27:15.

make a difference. No sign of that? No, and if Michael Gove may be about

:27:16.:27:20.

to go across, that might make a difference too. As with Boris

:27:21.:27:24.

Johnson. No sign of that either? No. Therefore, who is going to be the

:27:25.:27:29.

leader? Is it going to be Nigel Farage by default? We all know about

:27:30.:27:35.

Nigel Farage but he's not a senior reassuring Government figure if

:27:36.:27:38.

nothing else so that I think is what David Cameron's managed to do. What

:27:39.:27:43.

he's also done is talked up the idea of opportunism saying, well if you

:27:44.:27:46.

want to oppose Europe on principle, do it now, come out and I can

:27:47.:27:51.

respect that. If you are doing it to be opportunistic, this is what he

:27:52.:27:54.

said in his memo, I won't tolerate that. That therefore means that

:27:55.:27:59.

those people who maybe are thinking it might be unfair advantage to back

:28:00.:28:11.

a winning no-campaign, have to be pretty sure they are going to win

:28:12.:28:12.

and that's not how they feel at the moment. I don't entirely agree. They

:28:13.:28:12.

don't have the option to come out because the Prime Minister's said

:28:13.:28:15.

no-one can come out. Chris Grayling... Sorry, no-one can come

:28:16.:28:20.

out in their true colours about wanting to leave until the

:28:21.:28:23.

negotiation's been completed so. There is no reason why Michael glove

:28:24.:28:27.

or Theresa May or anyone else should declare their position. It's also

:28:28.:28:32.

about the nature of the next leadership campaign in the

:28:33.:28:35.

Conservative Party and it may be the calculation of one or two people

:28:36.:28:41.

that the next leadership campaign will have a pro-Europe candidate

:28:42.:28:44.

who'll be George Osborne and there may be an anti-Europe candidate and

:28:45.:28:49.

the anti-Europe candidate may be well placed by being an anti-Europe

:28:50.:28:53.

candidate. It's really great that the future of our nation depends on

:28:54.:28:59.

Tory membership and whether they don't like croissants... I've heard

:29:00.:29:05.

many Tories making this argument, and we know activist Tory membership

:29:06.:29:09.

seems to be about 75% against Europe. What you are hypothecating

:29:10.:29:16.

on is that the country as a whole, deciding it wants to stay in, then

:29:17.:29:20.

the Tory party saying they are going to carry on arguing about this and I

:29:21.:29:24.

don't think there's public appetite for that at all. I think probably

:29:25.:29:26.

Conservative member also say yes, now is the time to unite and

:29:27.:29:32.

therefore, where people stood in the referendum campaign assuming there's

:29:33.:29:35.

a yes vote, will be quietly forgotten. That is possible, but

:29:36.:29:38.

that is the calculation people will be making at the moment. Although

:29:39.:29:43.

what you say is possible, it ain't necessarily so. I mean, it's quite

:29:44.:29:48.

hard to imagine that when this referendum is over, the Conservative

:29:49.:29:51.

Party is simply going to say... Never mind... That's all right then.

:29:52.:29:58.

Really, don't you think people are yearning for that. They have been

:29:59.:30:00.

going on about Europe for 40 years, they are not going to stop now. Your

:30:01.:30:05.

party used to go on about Europe a lot? We go on about other stuff now!

:30:06.:30:13.

I'll come on to that in a minute. 214 out of 232. It's perfectly true

:30:14.:30:19.

the referendum is really only about the Conservative Party but I think

:30:20.:30:22.

increasingly there'll be a feeling that the thing has not been very

:30:23.:30:26.

fairly played. I think that's going to be the problem, there'll be a

:30:27.:30:31.

residue. Will it be June? I think it will be September. September. Won't

:30:32.:30:39.

be able to rush for June? If he goes to June, he'll be riding rough shot

:30:40.:30:42.

over what the Electoral Commission think. June or July interferes with

:30:43.:30:45.

school holidays starting in Scotland. Everyone always says look

:30:46.:30:50.

you can't have another summer of migration then ask people to vote on

:30:51.:30:54.

Europe. I think the two problems are that one we have migration anyway.

:30:55.:31:00.

Would another summer change it that much? And two is it going to be the

:31:01.:31:04.

same, I don't think so. Europe is behaving differently. History won't

:31:05.:31:08.

repeat itself year on year in exactly the same way. If he tries to

:31:09.:31:15.

rush it through, should Labour help him?

:31:16.:31:22.

I don't think David Cameron really cares. A lot of Tory Eurosceptics

:31:23.:31:29.

will not want to rush it through. He might need Labour votes. They could

:31:30.:31:34.

be pivotal in this. The Scottish Nationalists have said they want

:31:35.:31:37.

help to get it through. A year ago I would say I wanted as quick as

:31:38.:31:44.

possible. But September is a fair amount of time. Ken Livingstone

:31:45.:31:49.

seems to think you could have a new position on Trident within 8-10

:31:50.:31:53.

weeks. I don't know what it's got to do with Ken Livingstone. He's

:31:54.:32:01.

running the review. It's a shame. He now has a Shadow Defence Secretary

:32:02.:32:04.

who agrees with him, as well as the leader. Ken Livingstone can't change

:32:05.:32:09.

the rules of the Labour Party, and we cannot change the rules until

:32:10.:32:13.

Conference, which will not be until September. Doesn't matter what Ken

:32:14.:32:16.

Livingstone says on the news. We have the rule. What about the move

:32:17.:32:21.

to have the NEC having much more power when it comes to determining

:32:22.:32:26.

policy. It still has to go to Conference, which isn't until

:32:27.:32:30.

September. They can't just decree to have more power. It's amazing how

:32:31.:32:34.

these are crepes are not turning into Democrats, saying they want

:32:35.:32:38.

centralised power. -- it's amazing how these Democrats. I would really

:32:39.:32:46.

like to have a go at being on the panel that manages the Labour Party.

:32:47.:32:50.

Not for all the delightful reasons I'm sure many people think, but I

:32:51.:32:51.

think we need to be more I'm sure many people think, but I

:32:52.:32:56.

campaigning force and to reconnect I'm sure many people think, but I

:32:57.:32:58.

in a way where we have obviously failed to do. I think I could help

:32:59.:33:04.

them with that. What do you think about the Guardian newspaper survey

:33:05.:33:10.

which shows that the membership, as opposed to the Parliamentary party,

:33:11.:33:17.

they are increasingly as his as Tikva Mr Corbyn. No surprise that is

:33:18.:33:22.

a news story, it's obvious. The membership is for Jeremy Corbyn,

:33:23.:33:27.

there's no two ways about it. He is the leader for the foreseeable

:33:28.:33:32.

future. Definitely. What do you make of the direction of travel? I

:33:33.:33:36.

thought the Labour Party made a serious decision in September and it

:33:37.:33:40.

will be followed through. We are seeing the party reinvent itself and

:33:41.:33:43.

I think more than half the members are new members as opposed to old

:33:44.:33:49.

members, and they support Jeremy Corbyn and his particular approach,

:33:50.:33:51.

and I think it will be tested all the way through until 2020. What

:33:52.:33:56.

they do about nuclear weapons, it's like the Tories on Europe, they will

:33:57.:34:00.

have to have a free vote effectively. What Mr Corbyn will try

:34:01.:34:04.

to do with his supporters, like Ken Livingstone, he will try to get as

:34:05.:34:10.

many MPs as possible shifting to an anti-position, knowing the party is

:34:11.:34:15.

following behind. Then he is aiming for the party Conference where he

:34:16.:34:19.

wants to change the Labour Party position and go into the next

:34:20.:34:22.

election with a unilateral position. The problem is, it hasn't won in the

:34:23.:34:24.

past. We will wait and see. Adam, The problem is, it hasn't won in the

:34:25.:34:29.

thank you for being with us. Now, Jeremy Corbyn's Twitter account

:34:30.:34:31.

was 'hacked' earlier this week causing untold stress

:34:32.:34:33.

in the leader's bunker. Would the prankster choose

:34:34.:34:35.

to misrepresent the 'new politics'? Twist the leader's words,

:34:36.:34:37.

undermine his position, make a mockery of his

:34:38.:34:39.

plans for the party? In the event Jezza needn't have

:34:40.:34:41.

worried, when the hacker posted a short, but highly accurate,

:34:42.:34:44.

tweet that went like this. Proving that you don't actually need

:34:45.:34:51.

140 characters to summarise the Labour leader's current

:34:52.:34:55.

thinking on defence. But which also means

:34:56.:34:57.

there are people out there with genuine worries

:34:58.:34:59.

and that's why we've decided to get serious, and put good mental

:35:00.:35:01.

health in this week's Spotlight. # Bet that you think

:35:02.:35:08.

that you're on your own. # And you've no one's

:35:09.:35:11.

hand to hold...# She's known for speaking her mind

:35:12.:35:14.

on mental health issues, so was singer Nicola

:35:15.:35:17.

Roberts pleased by David The Prime Minister says mental

:35:18.:35:20.

health is a government priority We need to take away that shame,

:35:21.:35:28.

that embarrassment. Let people know that they

:35:29.:35:31.

are not in this alone. They say he's the first

:35:32.:35:33.

Prime Minister to raise the issue But for those who claim services

:35:34.:35:36.

have been cut while demand has soared, is it still a case

:35:37.:35:41.

of the January Blues? There might be funding

:35:42.:35:45.

for new mums and for those with eating disorders,

:35:46.:35:48.

but with suicide the top cause are the chaps getting a fair

:35:49.:35:51.

share? Thanks to a Twitter campaign,

:35:52.:35:56.

Johnny Benjamin traced the man who stopped him from jumping off

:35:57.:35:59.

a bridge, and now the pair have launched their own mental health

:36:00.:36:02.

workshops in schools. There is an online petition

:36:03.:36:09.

underway to change the national curriculum too,

:36:10.:36:10.

so when the NHS is in a funk, maybe education is

:36:11.:36:13.

the key to sound minds. For Nicola Roberts,

:36:14.:36:18.

prevention is the best cure. And when it comes to talking

:36:19.:36:21.

about psychological issues in the classrooms, it's

:36:22.:36:26.

certainly boys allowed too. But the question remains,

:36:27.:36:28.

will mental and physical health care ever be

:36:29.:36:32.

thought of equally? Nicola Roberts singing, and she

:36:33.:36:46.

joins us now. Welcome to the programme. Why has good mental

:36:47.:36:50.

health care become a personal issue for you? I have actually seen

:36:51.:36:57.

clinical depression on a first-hand basis. When I was younger, someone

:36:58.:37:02.

very close to me was suffering from it, and it's a very ugly, monstrous

:37:03.:37:07.

thing, not only for the person dealing with it, but the family

:37:08.:37:18.

witnessing it. Now I work a lot with Barnardos, and it's important for

:37:19.:37:23.

them, different things children and young people go through, they might

:37:24.:37:27.

be victims of sexual exploitation, they might come from families of

:37:28.:37:31.

substance abuse, and the children are generally in despair. I think

:37:32.:37:39.

mental health in general, it's so massive, so huge here. Everywhere. I

:37:40.:37:46.

feel like with Barnardos I would like to see within schools, they

:37:47.:37:52.

become more of a life topic, so we talk about what is a healthy

:37:53.:37:58.

relationship. We can talk about sexual exploitation and sexual

:37:59.:38:04.

education topics. We can teach people about the fact we are all

:38:05.:38:09.

wired completely different. Everybody has a different brain and

:38:10.:38:12.

we all react to different things differently. We all have different

:38:13.:38:16.

sensitivities and pain thresholds. I feel like if we were taught more

:38:17.:38:26.

about the brain. You don't think we do enough for mental health care?

:38:27.:38:32.

Not at all. What are the particular problems we are not dealing enough

:38:33.:38:37.

with? People don't understand the way they are feeling. People don't

:38:38.:38:41.

understand the way other people are feeling. I feel like if it was

:38:42.:38:46.

talked about and understood more, there would be less bullying, more

:38:47.:38:50.

understanding in the world as a whole. We would be looking at each

:38:51.:38:58.

other as human beings who are all different and not categorising

:38:59.:39:03.

people. So it's a matter, not so much of resources, but reaching out.

:39:04.:39:07.

It is resources, because the training has to be there, the

:39:08.:39:11.

funding for the training has to be there. The teachers. Jess, you have

:39:12.:39:18.

been involved in this. I have, I worked for many years with children

:39:19.:39:23.

who were sexually exploited, women who had been, and men, involved in

:39:24.:39:31.

domestic violence. The strain on the mental health service, in a

:39:32.:39:40.

five-year period at Refuge, we saw an enormous increase in people who

:39:41.:39:42.

had attempted suicide and self harmed because services were

:39:43.:39:46.

shutting. The cuts come in and the crisis comes in. All we do in this

:39:47.:39:51.

country is talk about crisis care, but we never talk about prevention,

:39:52.:39:55.

we never try to stop somebody before they accelerate to a dangerous

:39:56.:39:59.

level. It doesn't make sense, we have society moving to a pressure

:40:00.:40:05.

cooker, with social media, celebrity obsessed. I feel like the resources

:40:06.:40:13.

cooker, with social media, celebrity are getting smaller. The problem is

:40:14.:40:17.

getting bigger, it's not balanced. Our people listening to you? It's

:40:18.:40:22.

something I've only just started to talk seriously with Barnardos about.

:40:23.:40:26.

I learned from the producer outside just now that there is a petition

:40:27.:40:39.

online. Nicky Morgan repeatedly says no to PHSE being compulsory in

:40:40.:40:44.

primary and secondary school, despite evidence to the contrary. If

:40:45.:40:50.

it gets 100,000 signatures it could be debated in Parliament. I think I

:40:51.:40:55.

bring it up almost every day. Nicky Morgan is sick of me asking the

:40:56.:41:00.

question. Is the idea that mental health in schools is treated the

:41:01.:41:05.

same way as sexual health? Healthy relationships and how we deal with

:41:06.:41:08.

young children who have complex needs, substance misuse at home, the

:41:09.:41:17.

toxic trio is what it's called that schools, it's the issue. At the

:41:18.:41:19.

moment, good schools are doing brilliant work, like the two young

:41:20.:41:25.

men on the video. But you don't have to do it. Lots of schools are not

:41:26.:41:30.

well enough resourced. It has to be done. A lot of people are saying,

:41:31.:41:41.

they don't want their child is subject to such information at a

:41:42.:41:46.

young age because they feel it's not relevant to their child. But it can

:41:47.:41:47.

be happening anywhere, you don't have to be in a big city. Your

:41:48.:41:52.

15-year-old daughter will be on social media. That leaves them

:41:53.:41:59.

exposed? Yes. A quick thought from Michael? We go back to the Prime

:42:00.:42:06.

Minister who raised the subject. I think mental health is substantially

:42:07.:42:09.

under resourced, but I do not see any sign from any political party

:42:10.:42:12.

that this will change. We discussed the junior doctors earlier, talking

:42:13.:42:17.

about redistributing resources to have doctors working around the

:42:18.:42:22.

clock. Nobody is saying we will cut down on Social Security, overseas

:42:23.:42:25.

aid, education, to move money to mental health. I would say that. We

:42:26.:42:32.

continue to run the highest deficit in the European Union. It's a

:42:33.:42:38.

campaign that your front, thank you for being with us tonight.

:42:39.:42:45.

But not for us because it's flood defence night at Lou Lou's

:42:46.:42:49.

which probably means it's been cancelled.

:42:50.:42:51.

So we leave you tonight with Sir Philip Dilley,

:42:52.:42:53.

the now-former ?100,000 a year, three-day-a-week Chairman

:42:54.:42:54.

When thousands of homes were under water over Christmas,

:42:55.:42:59.

A statement was issued claiming he was at home with his family,

:43:00.:43:02.

failing to mention that the home in question was his holiday

:43:03.:43:05.

A statement was then made explaining that he had family ties to Barbados,

:43:06.:43:09.

failing to mention that his wife was actually from Jamaica,

:43:10.:43:11.

Despite walking off from his job in an almighty huff this week,

:43:12.:43:19.

we think old Phil Dilley-Dallay on the Way has been unfairly

:43:20.:43:22.

After all, as these harrowing pictures prove, the water was gently

:43:23.:43:26.

Nighty night, don't let Rihanna's beach umbrella bite.

:43:27.:43:32.

# When the sun shines, we'll shine together

:43:33.:43:35.

# Took an oath, I'mma stick it out til the end

:43:36.:43:43.

# Now that it's raining more than ever

:43:44.:43:45.

# Know that we'll still have each other

:43:46.:43:49.

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