Browse content similar to 07/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, on the This Week Wing, a former Prime Minister | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
Tony Blair says going to war in Iraq with his American mates was the most | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
agonising decision he ever made, a decision John Chilcot | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
Author Douglas Murray flies the flag for intervention. | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
One failed war does not make all wars wrong, and we've | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
But do we really want our foreign policy decided by China | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
Accusations of dirty tricks and a stitch up in the race | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
for Number Ten, an opposition leader who says he's not going anywhere. | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
No sign of the political drama abating at Westminster. | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
The Spectator's Isabel Hardman says you couldn't make it up. | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
The plots and plotting intensified in Westminster this week, | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
Comedian Omid Djalili asks, why are the masses so | :01:01. | :01:10. | |
A week in which dark, sinister forces have been at work | :01:11. | :01:41. | |
trying to undermine my bid for the Tory leadership by claiming | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
Eton, Oxford, Harvard, the Brigade of Guards, | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
Goldman Sachs, Rothschild's, long-standing presenter | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
What bit of that rather glittering track record is untrue? | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
Of course, I may have embellished a few bits here and there, | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
but who hasn't bigged up their CV when applying for the big job? | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
If anything, I've rather understated my achievements, | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
since I make no mention of my stint as chief cook and bottle washer | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
for Her Majesty at Balmoral, or part-time Dauphin | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
You may have seen me on the eponymous series | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
To question my credentials is unworthy even of a backstabbing | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
Aberdonian fishmonger's son, and we know how low they can go. | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
Speaking of Andrea Leadsom's time as Governor of the Bank of England, | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two bloody difficult men who just | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
Think of them as the Big Lie and Porky Pie of late-night | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
I speak, of course, of the #lammynator David Lammy, | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
#sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo and the only one you really | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
care about, #mollythedog, with her little stepsister | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
Your moment of the week? Well, today when it emerged that the next Prime | :03:02. | :03:26. | |
Minister of the United Kingdom will be a woman. It takes you back more | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
than 40 years, when the Conservative Party first chose a woman as a | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
leader, an awfully long time ago. I would just like David to reflect | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
that for all the women only short lists in the Labour Party, all the | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
Blair babes, the Labour Party has never come close to producing a | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
woman leader, and the Conservative Party is about to produce its second | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
woman leader. It's interesting that it's not all about interfering with | :03:55. | :03:56. | |
the process, it's sometimes just about what pops through a party. | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
Don't rise to the bait because I will come back to it later. Give me | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
your moment. It has been a tough week, so I think the moment is out | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
of politics. It's got to be the football. It's the week of | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
underdogs. Iceland, arriving back home to that fantastic Viking | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
charmed, and Wales not quite doing it but the atmosphere in Cardiff, | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
unbelievable. That's my moment. Now, after seven years of waiting, | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
yesterday saw the publication of the Chilcot report into the Iraq | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
War. Far from the whitewash | :04:30. | :04:31. | |
it was expected to be, the report gave a damning account | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
of how then-Prime Minister Tony Blair took Britain | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
into a "disastrous and unnecessary" war, for which post-conflict | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
planning was wholly inadequate. Chilcot's role was not | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
to make a pronouncement on the legality of the invasion, | :04:44. | :04:45. | |
but the 2.6 million-page document leaves the door open | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
for the families of soldiers who died in the campaign | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
to bring a challenge. But do the failings of Iraq mean | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
we should kiss goodbye to the possibility of unilateral | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
action in the future? And who should have to sign off | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
on Britain going to war? Here's Douglas Murray | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
with his take of the week, The Chilcot report has | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
delivered a damning verdict But it will have done nothing | :05:08. | :05:28. | |
to change people's minds. If you thought that Tony Blair | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
was a liar and a war criminal And if you didn't think that, | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
then you still don't. In any case, one failed war does not | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
make all wars wrong. We have a tendency | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
to remember only those We rightly talk about the mess | :05:50. | :05:51. | |
that's been created in Iraq and in Libya, but very rarely talk | :05:52. | :06:02. | |
about those interventions that Sierra Leone, for instance, | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
or Kosovo. It's worth remembering that polls | :06:08. | :06:16. | |
showed public support for Tony Blair in 2003, | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
and although the usual suspects are talking | :06:19. | :06:20. | |
about this as an illegal war, the Chilcot Inquiry does not | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
come to that conclusion. In any case, whatever your views | :06:25. | :06:34. | |
on Iraq, why should the Russians and the Chinese have the ability | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
to veto UK decision-making Russia and countries | :06:38. | :06:39. | |
in the Middle East won't shy away Do we really want to clear the stage | :06:40. | :06:49. | |
and allow them to set the agenda? In all the recriminations | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
and rightful regret over Iraq, it is worth remembering that | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
Britain isn't the worst war It is an outrage that people | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
who have been apologists for the worst regimes in the world | :07:01. | :07:10. | |
are currently trying to portray Yes, I'm thinking of Jeremy Corbyn | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
and his cronies, and their And just when we need a strong | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
Labour Party, the result The Corbynistas need to go, | :07:20. | :07:31. | |
but Chilcot has just pulled out everything from under the Blairite | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
wing of the party. Instead of endlessly rowing | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
about 2003, we need to decide what we're going to learn from it, | :07:43. | :07:44. | |
and also to realise what a disaster it is that our foreign policy, | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
as well as our politics as a whole, And from Bunker 51 paintball | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
in Greenwich to our own little underground shelter on This Week, | :07:54. | :08:09. | |
Douglas Murray joins us now. Michael, was the Chilcot report | :08:10. | :08:23. | |
worth waiting for? I don't think it told us anything we did not know 13 | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
years ago, certainly nine years ago when it was set up. It is welcome | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
that it does not pull its punches but I think everything was on the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
table along time ago. Was it more robust, even more damning you | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
expected? I was pleased it was not a whitewash. It was a serious piece of | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
work. His language was very British but very clear and incisive. And | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
clearly, it's a very, very sad week for British foreign policy. Is at | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
the final nail in Tony Blair's reputation? History will judge Tony | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
Blair on a whole raft of things, but clearly, the chaos that is Iraq now, | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
on any analysis, the lack of planning and the sectarian violence | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
that we have in that country and in the region, as a consequence, must | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
mean that it was a catastrophe, in that sense. It gives no comfort, | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
Douglas, to those who think he is a war criminal. No, those people are | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
trying to do as much as they can with what they have got but I think | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
they will be disappointed in that regard. The people who want Tony | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
Blair to be tried, they will keep going. One of the saddest things | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
about the press conference that he did was that one could not help | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
thinking this was a man who knew he was going to have at least civil | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
actions and others coming against improbably for the rest of his life. | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
George Galloway on the Daily Politics today said he thought the | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
war criminal route could not be pursued now but they were going to | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
pursue misconduct in public office, also a criminal offence. Could that | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
be a runner? It could be. All of these things will be tried. As it | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
was with Henry Kissinger and others, there will be endless attempts. I | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
think Tony Blair knows that. It is said that Iraq will make it much | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
harder to mount military intervention, but since then we have | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
intervened in Libya and our planes are over the skies of Iraq and | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
Syria. Doing very, very limited operations in the latter case you | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
give. Maybe that's right. It might be right, it might be a consequence. | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
As a country, we have to think seriously about whether it is | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
appropriate that somebody in Tony Blair's position, or David Cameron's | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
position, should have hanging over them in perpetuity the idea of | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
endless legal cases against them. I dislike it when that happens to | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
members of the Armed Forces, and I think it basically makes our | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
politics and foreign policy pretty inoperable. Of course, you stay | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
within the bounds of the law. The bounds of the law on many of these | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
things are clear. But the idea that any British Prime Minister could | :11:15. | :11:22. | |
constantly fear every branch of international law, is something that | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
will simply mean that politicians who believe in the status quo and | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
never doing anything are the only politicians we will ever get. Iraq | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
clearly changes the mood for intervention but does not rule it | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
out entirely. We have been -- intervened since Iraq. I think it | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
changes are very much on both sides of the Atlantic. One of the legacies | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
from David Cameron is the idea that we now need a parliamentary vote | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
before we take military action, which, I'm afraid, people listening | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
will think I am being undemocratic, but I think that is inoperable. If | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
all of our potential enemies believe a Prime Minister has to toil day and | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
night to put together a coalition in the House of Commons to support | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
military action, we have no deterrent effect whatsoever. David. | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
I have voted against all the literary action since Iraq. I felt | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
so let down by an intelligence service that was not properly | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
scrutinised at the time. And I think it is not that you cannot intervene. | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
It is the terms. The second thing is, when you intervene you have to | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
be prepared to be there for the long term. There is this sense that you | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
can quickly drop a few bombs and leave. It takes money, lots of | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
money. Look at what happened in Germany after the Second World War, | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
a whole Marshall plan, therefore the long term. I don't see any of that | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
in the international context. We were not prepared to commit, for the | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
part of Iraq we were responsible for, the greater Basra area, we were | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
not prepared to commit either the men or the material for it. And I | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
think there is something shameful about getting involved in a | :13:10. | :13:11. | |
situation we are not ready to see through. We have discovered recently | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
that the government did not even plan for Brexit, so it is not | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
surprising that the government had not planned for post operation in | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
Iraq. I want to pick up on something David said about intelligence. I | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
must correct you a bit on that. To pretend we were sent the let down by | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
our intelligence services is in part to misunderstand what Chilcot says. | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
Chilcot says, and we are still absorbing it, a long report, that | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
there was clearly, people in your party at the time, like Jack Straw, | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
were clearly reaching for intelligence to justify conclusions | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
they wanted to come to. Intelligence is never a straightforward business. | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
Nobody ever says, this is a slam dunk. It is always a process of | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
adding up a set of things that are themselves half and quarter truths | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
and trying to stick them together into a picture which may reflect | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
reality. There is a clear sign from the Chilcot report that Jack Straw | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
and others were going to the intelligence community to get | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
information they wanted from them. I think it is quite wrong to blame the | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
intelligence community for that failure. That was a political | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
failure. But they did allow politicians to talk about the | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
intelligence in ways that could not be justified by the intelligence | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
they had given. The broader point is that if you look back in the lead | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
up, the years up to Iraq, we were probably too keen to intervene as a | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
British government into many areas. We started a big intervention in | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
Afghanistan but had not finished in Iraq. It was probably the climax of | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
that. There is or has the danger that the pendulum goes the other | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
way, David, and we are now too reluctant to intervene when we | :14:58. | :14:58. | |
should. We intervened in Sierra Leone and | :14:59. | :15:08. | |
Bosnia, we were in Afghanistan and we were seriously stretched. Some of | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
the complaints about weaponry and equipment are unforgivable. The | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
pendulum has swung to a place where in the US and the UK it is fine to | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
drop bombs from aerial bombardment and drones but you will not commit | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
troops on the ground. There is a question about whether you do that | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
if you need to intervene. There has to be a serious plan, you have to do | :15:36. | :15:44. | |
it for a long time. We interviewed, or intervened, in Iraq, we occupied, | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
it is a mess, and Libya is a mess, we did not intervene in Syria or | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
occupy, it is a mess, so where is the lesson? The lesson is that you | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
can only intervene if you have the resources, and I take up what David | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
and Douglas have said, you need to be willing to intervene for the | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
long-term. It is like imperialism. We used to go into places with a | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
view to being there 20, 30, 40 years, people making their careers | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
there. We have lost that mentality. It is an extraordinary revolt | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
against our history. We do is to take a superior view, the Americans | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
were anti imperialist because they did not understand what it meant, | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
and we had a history of it, and we achieved some benign results along | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
the way. What Iraq needed was a thorough commitment. Do we have any | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
idea what Jeremy Corbyn's policy is? Theresa May's? No, and in both | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
parties they are shying away from this. They regard foreign policy as | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
being a quagmire which is best not to get involved in. The problem is | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
that events make things happen, and Iraq happened because of 9/11. | :17:12. | :17:21. | |
Washington decided they had the capability to go after another | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
American enemy, and they decided it was Saddam Hussein. We don't know if | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
a Paris like attack happened in London what our interventionist | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
foreign policy would be, who is planning it, who would do something. | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
It is not a coincidence that the most interventionist leader in | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
Europe these days is from what I want. He has the lowest ratings of | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
any French president in 50 years. There are a lot of reasons for that. | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
So if you too have "an entrenched need to gossip, particularly | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
when Blue Nun is taken, as it all too often seemed | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
to be", then pour yourself another three fingers. | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
Because waiting in the wings, comedian Omid Djalili is here | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
to talk about his new Iraq War documentary We Are Many, | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
And remember, we're still ignoring you all on the Twitter, | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
and Gordon Brown's International Superhighway. | :18:21. | :18:29. | |
Now, we take our duties of impartiality seriously | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
What other programme would allow shirts like this on air? | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
But it turns out we've been getting it all wrong! | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
Yes, apparently, the BBC's been too impartial over its reporting of | :18:42. | :18:49. | |
So now that we can say what we like, the first thing I'd like to point | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
out is that there's absolutely nothing like the cool, | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
refreshing taste of sweet sparkling German wine. | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
Talking of fizz, we sent the Spectator's Isabel Hardman down | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
to Wimbledon for her roundup of the week and a well-deserved | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
Yes, definitely hard at work in the lobby. | :19:11. | :19:26. | |
No, no-one has resigned yet, but I will keep you updated if | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
Sometimes you just have to get out of the Westminster bubble. | :19:31. | :19:49. | |
These days, politics is an awful lot like tennis. | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
You never quite know who's going to turn up on court. | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
Top seeds have crashed out, the bookies are scrabbling to find | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
new odds, and on Monday it was the turn of wild card | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
Nigel Farage to throw down his racket again. | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
During the referendum campaign I said I want my country back. | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
What I'm saying today is I want my life back, | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
Farage's resignation did surprise many political pundits, | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
mainly because he actually seems determined to stick to it, | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
The Ukip star player may have been the first to drop out this week | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
Over on Centre Court, the play was about | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
Against the odds, Theresa May is now the number-one seed | :20:33. | :20:41. | |
But as a Remainer, her road to the title is hardly a safe | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
So she and her supporters have decided to take | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
As part of the negotiation we will to look at this question | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
of people who are here in the UK from the EU, and I want to ensure | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
that we are able to not just guarantee the position for those | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
people but guarantee the position for British citizens | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
who are in other member states in other countries in | :21:06. | :21:07. | |
But some, like the unseeded Andrea Leadsom, saw this | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
I commit today to guaranteeing the rights of our EU friends | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
who have already come here to live and work. | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
It was a good return, but there are still questions | :21:26. | :21:27. | |
And just how united are the Leave side anyway? | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
The mixed doubles are fighting to be number-two seed and even get | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
The result of round one was pretty much as expected, | :21:35. | :21:43. | |
although it eliminated not just one but two contestants. | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
I will be lending my wholehearted support to Theresa May. | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
Rumours started to fly of dirty tricks. | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
Perhaps some of Michael Gove's supporters were trying to convince | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
those who backed Mrs May to lend him their support in order | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
to get him onto the ballot and keep Andrea Leadsom, | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
who might prove more popular with Conservative activists | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
We scarcely had a breather before it was on to the semifinals. | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
We always knew that Theresa May was going to make it all the way | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
But who was she going to end up playing? | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
Therefore, Michael Gove, having the lowest number of votes, | :22:26. | :22:34. | |
Whoever the next Prime Minister of this country will be, | :22:35. | :22:42. | |
it will be a female Prime Minister, and a female Prime Minister who has | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
formidable skills, and I know whichever one of the two wins, | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
Politics was on the verge of returning to business as usual, | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
but on Wednesday that long-awaited Chilcot report was published, | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
to remind us, if the referendum hadn't already, that politics | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
Sir John was deeply critical of the case that had been | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
We have concluded that the UK chose to join the invasion of Iraq before | :23:06. | :23:15. | |
the peaceful options for disarmament had been exhausted. | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
Military action at that time was not a last resort. | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
The debate in the Commons seemed measured, muted even. | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
MPs did not really want to shout all round, but instead talked | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
about the lessons governments needed to learn to stop something | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
But for many, especially the families, there was only one | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
I express more sorrow, regret and apology then you may ever | :23:39. | :23:49. | |
There were no lies, there was no deceit, | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
there was no deception, but there was a decision. | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
A decision to remove Saddam and a decision to be with America. | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
Tony Blair seems genuinely tormented by the aftermath of the Iraq War. | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
In hoarse tones, at his two-hour press conference after the report | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
was published, he pleaded with those listening to believe | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
It's almost as though Sir John's criticisms | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
of Tony Blair's Government, or his failure to stand up | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
to George Bush on important points, was less important than that people | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
believe the former Prime Minister had acted in good faith. | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
Jeremy Corbyn later apologised for Labour's role in the Iraq War. | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
He went much further in a speech outside of Parliament | :24:36. | :24:37. | |
and in his response to David Cameron in the Commons. | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
So I now apologise sincerely on behalf of my party | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
for the disastrous decision to go to war in Iraq. | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
The apology is owed first to all the people of Iraq, | :24:49. | :24:50. | |
hundreds of thousands of lives lost, and the country is still living | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
with the devastating consequences of war and the forces it unleashed. | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
At the end of the week, where does this leave | :25:04. | :25:05. | |
Well, Jeremy Corbyn is definitely still hanging | :25:06. | :25:07. | |
Well, some of them are getting rather nervous, but others | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
are arguing, "We just need to hold firm until Corbyn crumbles." | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
But currently, no play is scheduled for this court. | :25:16. | :25:23. | |
So perhaps after this week, politics will settle down a bit. | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
What this country needs is something to cheer it up, | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
Theresa May against Andrea Leadsom, is that a choice of which the Tories | :25:30. | :25:58. | |
can be proud? Andrea Leadsom is so untested, it would be a tremendous | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
risk, especially in the present circumstances. I voted for Brexit, | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
but I don't hold back from saying that we are in a perilous situation. | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
I would want to see the person of the greatest possible experience, | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
who had been tested and most exposed over a long period of time in that | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
role. The election when it goes to the grassroots will be between | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
Tories who take Michael's view, somebody with experience, Theresa | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
May, but on the other hand most voters voted for Brexit, they will | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
want somebody who was a Leaver. Absolutely. It will be fascinating | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
and nail-biting, because it is about who is the next Prime Minister, a | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
serious job interview. Ken Clarke did Theresa May a huge service this | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
week, being overheard describing her as a difficult woman is bubbly | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
boosting her chances massively, comparing her to Margaret Thatcher, | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
and saying out she is very good, pointing out she is the only grown | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
up in the room, and we have a massive national crisis now, how do | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
we deal with Brexit, who do we appoint as negotiators, to have a | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
colleague point out that you are capable and difficult is a huge | :27:23. | :27:31. | |
boost. The danger, was it not a major mistake to imply that EU | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
citizens already in this country could be a bargaining chip, when | :27:35. | :27:44. | |
even the most rabid of Leavers said, no, of course everybody who is | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
already here can stay? Within 24 hours Theresa May made to U-turns, | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
she rephrased tobogganing counterpoint, and she reneges on the | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
position taken previously about withdrawing from the European Court | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
of Human Rights. She had a pretty difficult period, and Andrea Leadsom | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
has had a difficult period in the debate about her CV. Just at the | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
moment neither one is looking especially shiny. It is causing a | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
lot of concern among EU citizens in this country. That is not fair. | :28:19. | :28:27. | |
Everybody involved in this said that whoever is he stays, even if the | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
Europeans are nasty to us, and identical they will be, but we look | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
after the people who are already here. If she wanted to make it about | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
that, she could not get it through the Commons. It is extraordinarily | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
unlikely he would enter into a decision's situation that was | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
retrospective. That is not how you behave. People have been worried | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
enough to leave. The problem is creating a climate. People get up | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
and think it is not safe anymore and leave. The insecurity for expat | :29:03. | :29:11. | |
Brits abroad and for domestic... It is awful, not knowing your future. | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
No planning and plans being made... We are all agreed. That all Molly is | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
from France, she is from Romania, they are worried now. | :29:25. | :29:32. | |
Have we seen the last of Nigel Farage? I doubt it. I am sure he | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
will be back in some form. Let me say a word about him. Because of the | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
catastrophic blunder committed by David Cameron, Nigel Farage deserves | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
a place in history. He was the man who spooked the Prime Minister. He | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
had a party with zero seats, now one seat, and he spooked the Prime | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
Minister into holding a referendum which the Prime Minister lost. He is | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
responsible for this country leaving the European Union. You are right, | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
but we should not celebrate it. A few years ago, Nigel Farage was the | :30:12. | :30:22. | |
complete bogeyman of British politics. We have now had a week of | :30:23. | :30:31. | |
the most awful xenophobic racism, terrible hate crimes, and I have to | :30:32. | :30:39. | |
say there is a great danger... Where is the evidence of this? The police | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
have been very careful to say there has been an increase in the | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
reporting of these crimes. On the streets of London I have seen and | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
heard things I have never seen and heard before. The danger is when | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
mainstream politicians line up with the hard right, this is what | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
happens. I hope we have seen the back of him. He has been a pollutant | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
to our politics. Ukip might now be a bigger threat to you in the north | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
than it is to the Tories in the South. Why would people keep on | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
voting Ukip? The motivation of people in the North feeling | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
abandoned by the other parties is strong. And they have lost the habit | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
of voting Labour. I think Ukip could clean up in some of those Labour | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
seats. We should not overdo it. We had a general election not long ago | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
and everybody said they would clean up. They did not. They never clean | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
up in general elections. Never. They might do if your party does not get | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
its act together. Over 80% of the PLP have no confidence in Jeremy | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
Corbyn but they have yet to mount a leadership challenge. It is a farce. | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
It is, I am afraid. It is an internet sign war that we should not | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
be having at a time when we should be focusing on the major debate, | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
which is Europe. Certainly, this has dragged on now for... That is just | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
sloganising. The Labour Party cannot get rid of its leader when you have | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
the present electoral system. And you can't get rid of the electoral | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
system unless the Labour Party splits and the moderate form a new | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
party. I am deeply worried that we actually have three parties. We have | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
a northern party that would like to be far harder line on immigration, a | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
London Liberal left party, led by Jeremy, and a centre party, maybe | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
Chuka Umunna is the leader, that could probably join with the Tories. | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
Which one are you in? I am not joining any tribes. That is why I | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
have focused on the main thing, Brexit. You want us to rerun the | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
referendum because you did not get your results. I have simply pointed | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
out that round about 37% of the country voted for this. The economy | :33:00. | :33:08. | |
is going south. 52% voted to come out. On the 70% turnout, if you | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
combine those that stayed at home and those that voted to stay, it is | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
about that is percent. If you go along with that argument, Ukip will | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
sweep you in the north. They will wipe you out if you count like that. | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
There is a reason why, when making becomes the Jewish law change, you | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
have a two thirds majority. Why did you not do that. The? This was not | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
my referendum, it was David Cameron's. When Scotland voted for | :33:39. | :33:46. | |
its own parliament it did not have a two thirds majority. Cameron | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
introduced this referendum. We had a referendum on Europe. The irony is | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
that those who want Brexit once sovereignty back, but why do we | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
believe in a sovereign parliament? Good luck on that. Nigel Farage | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
could well come back if Labour take that line. We have run out of time, | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
Miranda. Oui sad. Nice to see you. Now, it's no secret that most | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
of our BBC colleagues would like to see the back of us, | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
to be replaced with something far They claim my appeal is far too | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
narrow, that David Lammy isn't up to the job, | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
and that Michael Portillo's dress And whilst they may have a point | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
about Michael, we don't rely on the approval of Dimbleby, | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
Humphries and Marr for our leadership position in BBC current | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
affairs, because our mandate comes And you can't argue with last | :34:34. | :34:35. | |
week's record 1.3 million And that's why we're putting "people | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
power" in this week's Spotlight. If there are 500,000 on that march, | :34:40. | :34:48. | |
that is still less than the number of deaths Saddam has | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
been responsible for. Marching in their millions, | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
they failed to stop But did these protesters still send | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
a signal that politics was entering a new era when ordinary folks | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
demanded their voices to be heard? That's a question asked | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
by documentary We Are Many, exec produced by | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
comedian Omid Djalili. It claims the global anti-war | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
protest mobilised millions and forced people power | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
to be taken seriously. If you keep coming back, at some | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
point you will make the change. Much easier these days, | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
thanks, of course, to the Twitter Only nine months ago I was very | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
honoured to be elected leader I am carrying on with | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
that responsibility. People power can certainly | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
influence Labour politics. Jeremy Corbyn insists the support | :35:49. | :35:50. | |
of party members gives him the mandate to remain as leader, | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
even if his parliamentary colleagues A giant democratic experiment | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
in which over 17 million Brits decided we should | :35:57. | :36:06. | |
leave the European Union. It seems you can't ignore | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
the will of the people. So are politicians finally starting | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
to learn that? Olic Lily joins us. Most people know | :36:15. | :36:31. | |
you as a comedian. -- on the Ed Joe Lily. Omid Djalili. I came across a | :36:32. | :36:51. | |
kick-start on Twitter and it was an old school friend who was a | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
director. I got on board and we have been on this amazing journey for the | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
last five years putting this film together and promoting it, and it | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
has been a tremendous eye-opener. I love the way you are talking about | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
people power, trying to crowbar things like Brexit into it. That is | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
just a split, not people power. That is just 52% versus 48%. You are also | :37:13. | :37:20. | |
trying to bring in Jeremy Corbyn, and that narrative is basically | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
people saying he has to leave, and the silent majority not protesting | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
to keep him in. So when people march on the streets it is people power, | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
but when they vote at the ballot box, that is not people power? I | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
thought our film was about people power, but that particular | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
demonstration, a global demonstration... It is interesting, | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
we had John Prescott who saw the movie. I had done a TV commercial | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
with him so we were friendly. He said, I have seen the film. He said, | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
bearing in mind we were in the Cabinet deciding on these things and | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
we knew there was a demonstration of a million people but we had no idea | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
of the scale. 800 cities globally, 30 million people. He said, things | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
might have been different. But even that did not stop the war. So our | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
film is talking about this whole paradigms, where we have to look at | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
the relationship between the individual, community, which is | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
humanity, and institutions. If 30 million people protest now against | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
something and they are ignored, basically we are ignoring the second | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
superpower, global public opinion. I am completely mystified by this. 1 | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
million people marched in Britain, if that is what it was. It was a | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
small minority of the British people. At the time, opinion polls | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
showed the British people were in favour of the Iraq war. At the | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
subsequent election, Tony Blair was returned with a handsome majority. | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
What is your point? 1.5 million people is not an expression of | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
people power, but a demonstration by a very small minority. It is a large | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
demonstration. It was a minority that failed because they had no | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
plan. Like we were saying with Brexit, we voted for it but there is | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
no plan. Why should a minority succeed? I am not saying they should | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
succeed. You say it failed, but why should it succeed? It failed because | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
the war took place. I call that failure, don't you? The point of the | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
film is to show the legacy of that, because it inspired the Arab Spring. | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
For many people, they were proved right. At the end of the day, yes. | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
Those who marched were not normal lefties and students but Middle | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
England, Middle Scotland, Middle Wales, the general populace saying, | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
we don't want to see war. When you say they marched, that is an | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
exaggeration. It was a warm afternoon and people took a stroll | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
in the park. They did not make any self-sacrifice, did not do anything | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
that demanded great effort, did not put themselves in peril or danger, | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
they did not lie down in front of tanks. They took a stroll in the | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
park on Sunday afternoon. For many people it was more than that. Let me | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
bring in David. Given that many conclude that the march was | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
vindicated, they were right and the government was wrong, even so, is | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
the number of people marching the right way to determine policy? | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
Because I could show you pictures of massive crowds outside Buckingham | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
Palace when Chamberlain came back from Munich with peace in our time, | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
and everybody was in favour of it on the streets. That turned out not to | :40:45. | :40:52. | |
be right. I remember my friends marching and saying, we marched and | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
no one listened. I took them back to civil rights and reminded them that | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
the listening does not necessarily come instantaneously. And it is the | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
case that this week largely those that were marching against the Iraq | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
war have been vindicated. I might say also on Saturday there were | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
50,000 people marching because of wrecks it, and communicating their | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
deep concern. How many of them do you think had voted? I wish many of | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
them have marched before. Many of them had never been on a march | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
before, were not terribly political, just deeply concerned. Where does | :41:35. | :41:43. | |
this go, from the lesson of 2003? I understand what Michael Portillo was | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
saying, that they did not achieve anything, but there is a voice of | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
people... White macro it laid down a marker. At the end of the day, we | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
look at the Chilcot report and that says we need to take greater care | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
with war. That is the biggest oxymoron, a caring war. People were | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
saying, we do not want war. There was a tremendous outpouring of | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
empathy. We knew the people of Iraq would suffer. People were saying, we | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
do not want people suffering, killed. The human body is one. When | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
you stub your toe, the furthest apart from your brain, you want the | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
pain to go away. Those demonstrations were saying, we will | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
starve our toe, and then the whole of the body was affected. Now we are | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
in a much worse situation. You have done this documentary and you are | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
still on tour. After being really serious, I am going back to the | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
Edinburgh Festival and a massive tour. Good to see you, and good luck | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
with the documentary. Thank you. That's your lot for tonight, | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
folks, but not for us, because it's Deficit Reduction Night | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
at Lou Lou's and we're off to dance on the grave of the Government's | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
quietly-shelved key economic policy. But we leave you tonight | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
with a ridiculous display of people power when this morning almost two | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
dozen Andrea Leadsom ultras marched on Westminster, | :43:02. | :43:03. | |
calling for the former Governor of the Bank of England to be | :43:04. | :43:05. | |
made Prime Minister. According to the Met, | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
"organisers of public processions are required by law to notify police | :43:09. | :43:10. | |
at least six days before the event occurs of the date, time, | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
proposed route and name I'm not sure Andrea's | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
law-breaking campaign manager, MP Tim Loughton, did any of this, | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
so I'm sure Officer Dibble will be Nighty night, don't let Andrea's | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
fantastic CV bite. # And the world can't | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
erase his fantasies # All your dreams will | :43:31. | :43:44. | |
come true right away # Our voices will ring | :43:45. | :44:07. | |
forever as one...# | :44:08. | :44:14. |