29/09/2016 This Week

Welcome to tonight's This Week's Match Of The Day.

This evening, highlights from the much anticipated

New York derby clash, Clinton verus Trump.

US financial guru Alvin Hall commentates on a scrappy fight

America's fascination with wealthy businessmen and its curious

tolerance of bigotry and racism could mean back of the net for

Trump. In Liverpool Jeremy Corbyn

wins a decisive victory, The Mirror's Kevin Maguire

was on the touchline. It was all meant to be about Labour

Unity in Liverpool this week but the party still has a lot of different

teams. Come on! And as England manager Big Sam

Allardyce gets shown the red card, we ask undercover reporter

Donal McIntryre, This is incoherent rambling

disguised as a serious political chat.

behind the attempted coup against President Erdogan in Turkey

and the folks behind the attempted coup against

I ask because both coups were so spectacularly botched

that I'm suspicious they are one and the same.

I mean, you don't come across incompetence

Unless you're at Channel 4 and pay a shed load of dosh for Bake Off

without first ensuring that the talent is coming with it.

There are remarkable similarities between those who were rounded up

in Istanbul and those who rushed to Liverpool Lime Street Station

yesterday to skedaddle out of town before Jezza had even got

Maybe they feared the Labour leader would do some

Of course, with Labour knocking lumps out of itself,

the sensible Tory strategy would be to stay schtum.

But when it comes to Europe they just can't help themselves,

and started arguing about how Theresa May disappeared

But let me ask you another question, have you ever seen her reflection

Speaking of those who no longer cast a political shadow over anything,

by #fourpercent Liz "I'm putting a brave face on it" Kendall.

And by #sadmanonatrain Michael Portillo.

Your moment of the week? The speech by Tom Watson to the Labour Party

Conference, in which he dared to praise the achievements of the Blair

and Brown governments. I may not agree entirely with the list of

achievements he set out, but speaking as a Tory, it felt in those

days as though Labour was the natural party of government. I was

part of a team trying to lay a glove on the Labour Party when it was in

government and we could find no way while Blair was there, although more

when Brown came in. It established this in Von Ruben lit. To reflect

that it has gone from being virtually the natural party of

government to its present state in such a short period of time.

Politics is a wonderful thing. Tom Watson got a standing ovation in the

middle of his speech and at the end. But then they cheered Jeremy Corbyn

to the rafters, too, which leads me to think they were not the same

people. I have questioned Liz on this outside the studio and she will

tell you in due course. Your moment of the week? The presidential

debate, watched by 84 million people. Just in America alone, and

that does not include the millions who watched it on streaming

services. So I think more than the Super Bowl. Hillary Clinton did a

great job. She was relaxed, confident, feisty, which I always

like to see in a woman politician. The big question is, will it change

anybody's mind, and whether people who are undecided were even

watching. I think it will still be a close race. That is a question we

will investigate. Now empty promises, vast wealth

and a nail biting finish. Sounds like the Radio Times listing

for This Week. But of course, I refer to

the American presidential election. Following The Donald vs

the better half of Billary big debate earlier this week,

the polls are now neck and neck. And the mud slinging continues,

with Hill accusing Trump of living in his own reality and Trump

shooting back that Hillary is But what has The Donald's popularity

revealed about America? And is Hillary a better

choice for president? Many here are puzzled that someone

with no political experience and it'll policy can give an experienced

politician such a run for her money. So what has Trump's challenge

revealed about America? Here's Alvin Hall with

his take of the week. You would have to have been hidden

down a pitch and putt whole not to have noticed that Donald Trump seems

on the verge of scoring a double eagle, the keys to the White House.

And if he does, it will be the result of a combination of America's

fascination with wealthy maverick businessmen, and racism that puts

him there. Millions of Americans are seeing their jobs moved overseas,

outsourced, effected by mergers, acquisitions and takeovers by

private equity firms. Trump cashes in on their anger, their fear, their

sense of powerlessness, by giving them someone to blame. And that

someone is not the bankers or the businessmen. Understandably,

middle-class Americans want their children to be successful. They may

even become bankers one day. Trump, however, gives them convenient

scapegoats for their fears. He blames Hispanics, especially

Mexicans. He blames Muslims. And he blames blacks. He once these groups

to feel the full force of the electoral five iron. Trump's slogan,

make America a great again, is really coded language. No one ever

thought there would be a black President of the United States of

America, and in many ways his campaign is a reaction against that

reality. Its language and its tone has unleashed the secret of America,

the breadth and the depth of racism. I think it's time that someone calls

four for what is coming down the fairway. Many Americans dislike

Hillary because, although she is intelligent, she has been hugely

ambitious. And they believe that she stayed in her marriage to Bill

Clinton in a packed for fame and fortune. We need someone like

Hillary, who will take the time to refine her drive in ways that will

benefit the nation. It may look like Hillary is about to bogey, but here

is hoping she is savvy and will maintain her lead.

And from Plonk crazy golf in Dalston to our own collection of plonkers

here in Westminster, Alvin Hall joins me now.

We sent you there just so I could say that, and it worked! The people

backing Trump, saying they will vote for him, they are certainly angry

and disillusioned, and they are overwhelmingly white. But what is

the evidence they are a cyst? Well, you listen to Trump's language, and

how it is this old school language of racism. Who is to blame? Blacks

in the inner-city, Mexicans coming and taking our jobs. That is

old-fashioned Southern Democratic racism. You think the people voting

for him are racist? I think the people voting for him have these

feelings inside of them. The irony is that the election of Obama was

supposed to introduce a post-racial America. Instead, it has infused --

into juice a more racial America. A lot of working-class whites think

they have had a raw deal. They see Mrs Clinton as the epitome of the

establishment. To some extent, Trump is a protest vote against

everything. It is a scream. Yes, and embracing an American concept very

popular in business called disruption. You want to come up with

a new technology to disrupt the way these old people do business. Trump

in a way represents that disruption, especially to young white males in

those fields. Why is Mrs Clinton is so unpopular even among women and

even among left-leaning youngsters? First, when she came onto the scene

as the first lady, she was overly aggressive and many people thought

she wanted to make it a co-presidency. Many people did not

like that. Then, when Bill had his indiscretion, she forgave him and

stayed with him. And often went for the women who had been having

affairs with him. Exactly. And people felt she should have left

him. And now you have the issues surrounding her inappropriate

behaviour, or her judgment, with the e-mails. These things add up to a

singular doubt. We learned tonight the FBI will release more e-mails.

Isn't the danger for Mrs Clinton, she is favourite to win at the

moment, not by much, but she is favourite. Isn't the danger for her

that Mr Trump galvanises his base, they come out because they are fired

up perhaps for the reasons that you say, but she does not inspire hers,

and he wins on differential turnout? Absolutely. He has a man from Fox

News, the lady running his campaign now, all these people advising him.

So he is gradually focusing himself. He only has to be focused for a

little news conference to convince people he is reasonable. And that

will make more and more people who are on the fence vote for him and

bring out more of the voters. Michael, you spent a lot of time in

America this summer on your trains and other things. Is the Trump base

motivated by racism? You mean the people voting for him. I think some

are and some are not. What struck me was people I knew who are

Republicans who have convinced themselves that Trump has changed.

That he has become presidential, has put aside the nonsense from before.

He did not do that in the debate. Apart from his new voters, those who

have not voted Republican before, the traditional Republican voter is

now kidding himself and herself that Trump has become presidential. He

clearly has not changed but they are convincing themselves of that. The

other thing that struck me is that many Americans are deeply depressed.

It is a horrible choice for them. Many people dislike Hillary Clinton

enormously. It is hard to appreciate that in the UK. Neither one of them

has a thing to say about ISIS, Syria, or race relations, except in

the rather negative way that you have mentioned. You thought that Mrs

Clinton got the better of Mr Trump and that was the consensus view

according to the polls. But not by a huge amount. As we saw after the

Democratic convention, the bounce in her polls can evaporate quickly. She

has a struggle on her hands. She does. I think it would be a mistake

to somehow write off all the people supporting Trump as idiots or

racist. There may some, but I think there are two things going on. Yes,

there are economic issues, people feeling left out and left behind,

and you rightly raised that. But I think there is also a real sense of

available in elite. We hear the talk here in the UK. A Liberal elite

somehow sneering at the culture of people backing Trump. This has been

building for years and years. It has now exploded, and people want to

break the system. You are right, Trump gets his base out. The

challenge for Hillary years, can she do the same. That is why I thought

the debate was good for her, it will have given her people confidence.

But she is not seen as the change candidate, which is amazing because

she would be the first woman President. She would be pretty much

continuity on policy. That's right, so she has to show why she is

different. She has to inspire particularly women and young women

to support her. There is what is a double judgment here. She was too

ambitious. One minute she's criticised for smiling and then not.

Men have double standards when it comes to women politicians and we

need to recognise that. Is policy playing any role in this election?

It is surprising how little it is playing, because of how emotional

America is. Hillary clearly recognises that Donald Trump is

appealing to this in motion in people. How do you take a situation

where he is talking to the emotions of people? They are ignoring truth

in fact. They want to feel good, to see someone who represents what they

feel they want to happen in America. His slogan is, make America a great

again. At the moment Russia is blowing people to pieces in Syria

and the United States is doing nothing about it. Trump has nothing

to say about how he is going to make America great again because he's in

bed with Putin, and she has nothing to say about it because she espoused

the policy which led to this disaster. The latest New York Times

projections suggested the Republicans have a 59% chance of

holding onto the Senate I think they will. They will certainly hold onto

the house. There is a prospect that Mrs Clinton wins the White House but

she is up against a Republican Congress and she is a one term

President. Very much a possibility. She will

encounter exactly the same resistance that Barack Obama felt

when he came to office and they will not compromise with her. They will

not do anything to make her life easier. It will just be a repeat of

the last four years. A lot of people think that. I think at least if

Donald Trump comes in this will not be the case. It will be a different

story. We have no idea, both of you, if it is Mr Trump. If against the

odds he is in the White House, we have no idea what he'll do on

domestic or foreign policy? I do think that Michael is right to say

here about the risks Putin poses for international security. His

bro-mance with Putin undermining of Nato, also on the economy, his

protectionist policies. The world economy is still fragile. Sure. He

dragged Hillary Clinton with him on that. She described the

transatlantic partnership as the gold standard of free trade deals.

He forced her in the end to come out against it because in Pennsylvania,

Michigan, Ohio, the states she has to win or he has to win to be

president. It plays. You said against the odds. I understand

Hillary is ahead in the polls at the moment. I'm not sure it will be

against the odds. We are seeing a phenomenon here in Trump. It's

similar to movements we have seen in Europe, including Brexit and

pollsters under estimated those movements. I understand that. We

have no idea what he's going to do on domestic or foreign... We have

run out of time. Mrs Clinton at the moment is clearly the favourite. But

we live in the age when the unexpected happens. Absolutely.

Let's wait and see. Maybe I'll be your next door neighbour. You're

always welcome. Thank you. Since I moved in the neighbourhood has gone

down a bit. Thank you. But don't despair Owen,

if you're twiddling your thumbs hitting the Blue Nun,

there's a big job to fill Yes, big Sam's been stung

and he was stung bad. Which is why waiting in the wings

is undercover hack, Donal McIntyre, here to see if he can pull one over

on our Liz and Michael. And if that's not enough,

you can get hold of us on the intergalactic websphere,

on face off and on tweetdeck. Now spare a thought

for the Mirror's Kevin Maguire whose presence at the Labour conference

this week turned him into an on-tap agony aunt for Labour moderates -

with too much time on their hands. The night are drawing in and there

is a nip in the air. Politicians and pundits are looking forward to the

most important event of the autumn calendar. No, not the party

conferences! October fest. Yep. It's that time of year when a

political journalist can put on suede pants and eat a sauceage based

meal on camera and be taken seriously. I will have another. It's

about people coming together. That was the hope of Labour at its annual

conference this week. The leader Jeremy Corbyn was re-elected with a

large majority and all the talk was of unity and putting the band back

together. Not that type of band! Buoyed by Jeremy Corbyn's increase

mandate, his political ally and bandmate, Shadow Chancellor they

served up socialist fair. When we win the next election, we will write

into law a real living wage. APPLAUSE We'll charge a new living

review body with the charge of setting it at a level of living a

decent life. Independent forecasts suggest this will be over ?10 an

hour. Keen to show that Labour's under new management, the "S" word

was used more than be once - socialism. It's a society that's

radically transformed. Radically fairer, more equal, more democratic.

Yes, based upon a prosperous economy, that's economically and

environmentally sustainable. Where that prosperity is shared by all.

That's our vision to rebuild and transform Britain. In this party you

no longer have to whisper its name. It's called socialism. They weren't

all singing from the same menu when the Defence Secretary, Clive Lewis,

exploded over Team Corbyn messing with his pro Trident renewal speech

moments before he was due on stage. As you know, I'm sceptical about

Trident renewal, as are many here in this room today.

APPLAUSE But I'm clear that our party has a policy for Trident

renewal. But I also want to be clear that our party's policy is also that

we all share the ambition of a nuclear-free world. Despite all the

plea ares for everybody in Labour to eat and drink together, you still

heard thinly veiled threats to deselect MPs opposed to Corbyn. So I

ask all of you not to be debilitated by the media and those within our

own ranks who seek to undermine your confidence in the fight that lies

ahead. So I say, I say, Conference, to the merchants of doom, in the

words of shake peer's Henry VV. If you have no it stomach for this

fight, depart the Corbyn won the battlefield. Big job but his rivals

beat him over how Scotland and Wales will be represented on the party's

governing National Executive Committee, so the leader isn't in

full control. In a barnstorming speech, Corbyn's deputy, Tom Watson,

called time on Labour trashing the Blair and Brown years. I don't know

why we've been focussing on what was wrong with the Blair and Brown

governments for the last six years. APPLAUSE With you trashing our

record is not the way to enhance our brand. We won't win elections like

that. We need to win elections. Nor did Watson miss a beat dealing with

a heckler who shouted, "Chilcot" Jeremy, I don't think she got the

unity memo! CHEERING AND

APPLAUSE Corbyn's reinvigorated and enjoyed

the Labour conference fanfare for his 21st century socialism. A Labour

Government will not offer false promises on immigration, as the

Tories have done. We will not sow division by fanning the flames of

fear. We will tackle the real issues of immigration instead. Whatever the

eventualal outcomes of Brexit negotiations and make the changes

that are needed. Corbyn used the threat of an early general election

to persuade rebel MPs to rejoin his Labour band. So today we put

ourselves on notice. Labour is preparing for a general election in

2017. APPLAUSE And, we hope and expect all

our members to support our campaign. We will be ready for the challenge

whenever it comes. CHEERING AND

APPLAUSE I'm not expecting to see

international Trade Secretary Liam Fox in a German beer keller any time

soon after the speech he gave on Europe. Protectionism never helps

anybody at all. As we move into our post-Brexit arena, we want it to be

as free and as open as possible and don't just look at it from the UK

perspective, the European Union has a massive surplus in goods with the

UK. Who does it harm more if we end up in a new tariff environment? Does

it harm more those who sell more to the UK or the UK? Labour's in a

better position at the end of the week than it was at the beginning,

but the party is still very divided with a long march ahead if it's to

win a general election. Some of the rebels are returning to Corbyn's

band and, I suppose, if you can't beat them, you might as well join

them! And many thanks to London's

Bierschenke Bierkeller and their resident band,

The Bavarian Strollers, Liz, how big a mistake was it to

launch this failed coup? You have left Mr Corbyn stronger than ever?

Well, obviously it wasn't successful. Stating the obvious.

Really? , so it was a mistake? People felt very, really concerned

about what had happened over the referendum and that that was such a

tragedy for the party and the country that that was the right time

to do it, but... Even though you knew you were going to lose? Well, I

think... You were never not going to lose? I agree with that, but I think

Owen thought he had a chance of winning. That he could persuade

people who had initially backed Jeremy that he wasn't cutting the

mustard. That's not what the result... Do you accept that Mr

Corbyn has now earned the right to lead Labour into the next election,

even if it's 2020? Probably, yes. You know, he's got this mandate, but

the big challenge for him and this I think is the challenge for any party

conference, the party conference to go well. There was a lot of support

in the hall. The real question is - can he convince the public, not just

the people in the conference hall? You think he's got... He has a

mountain to climb there. But he said that himself, he had a mountain to

climb. In your view, is it true, as I was told by several of Mr Corbyn's

supporters in Liverpool, other than Trident Labour is pretty united on

policy? Owen supported many of the policies Jeremy put forward and said

he would be, you know, a more effective leader apart from the

issue on Trident. My view is, we lost the election in 2015, as in

2010 because people didn't trust us on the economy. Yeah. If they think

that we are simply going to tax and borrow more and more, that isn't

going to address the problem. You are not happy at the prospect of

borrowing billions more, a Mrs McDonnell is saying? I think that

the public will rightly want to know what impact will that have? Where

will you get the money from? What level of taxation do you want? This

is the underlying problem we have as a party. People know we support

investment in our public services and struck they don't trust us with

our taxes and think we will harm business. That is what we have to

deal with urgently because it's why we lost the last two elections and I

think we've got to do far more to convince people. Can you hold all

these Labour areas, particularly in the north, that voted Brexit, with

no controls on immigration as your policy... This is the big question

and debate we are having in the party now. There are different views

about this. Many of my colleagues understandably deeply worried that

their constituents voted out because of immigration predominantly. At the

same time knowing if we are out of the single market that could put our

manufacturing jobs at risk. That is the issue we are struggling with. My

own view is, can you not deal with those two issues separately and that

we should not give up on our membership of the single market. We

had a warning from Nissan today on top of a warning from Toyota that

the jobs our constituents rely on will be put at risk. If you are a

member of the single market as opposed to having access, as a

member you fall under the European Court of Justice. You are subject to

free movement. That is what people voted against? I'm not so sure that

other European countries aren't starting to look seriously at the

issue of freedom of movement. Look, I note the Italian Prime Minister

said if you want to be in the single market you have to have free

movement. Under these headlines many politicians are deeply concerned

about the impact of... Elections in Germany and France? I would not rule

out the possibility of making progress there. Michael, if you were

a Labour centrist and looked at the Labour Party now, what would you do?

Well, I'm not in the that position, so I speak without authority. I

think I would try and form a new party. I think between now and the

next election Jeremy Corbyn will try and wipe out all moderates who are

Labour MPs. Get them deselected. So these people have no future beyond

the next four years. In the next four years they have a lot of power.

They are 80% of the Labour Party. They are members of parliament at

the moment. They have a public platform and they have authority.

What they don't have is the name of the Labour Party. They don't have

access to the union funds they might have access to donor's funds. You

know, in the light of the failed coup I think that's what they have

to do. Otherwise, you know, it's over at least for a generation

because these people won't be in parliament. I don't know how you

would get it back. To go back to the first question you asked Liz about

the failed coup. What has happened twice is that the moderates have

under estimated Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn. First they nominated him.

You thought there would be a coup and he would be unnerved and gave

up, but he didn't. No I think people thought that enough of our members

were angry about what had happened over Brexit and thought that he

hadn't provided the leadership. That hasn't happened. Let me say this on

the idea there would be a separate party, which I don't agrow with.

First, you don't give up and quit on something just because it's tough.

You don't give up on a proud history of a party just because of what has

happened over the last couple of years. Secondly, Labour has always

had this challenge of holding our more traditional socially small

conservative constituents and liberal Metropolitan cities. A that

hases always been tough. We can only win by keeping it together. There

won't be a split. I hear no talk of a split. It wouldn't be right

electorally, but also we think - why should we quit our party? The civil

war could go on. There is a battle for control of the NEC, the

membership continues to change. Not that is helpful to you. The boundary

changes will give huge Combe for deselection of sitting MPs should

that be the mood of the constituency. Mr Corbyn said the new

people he would put into the Shia he Shadow Cabinet would be his people.

It's notture party. -- not your party. The majority had supported...

They are a declining percentage, they are yesterday. The new members

are tomorrow? It still remains our party. To be honest, I'm less

concerned with talk about what is happening on the NEC or who are the

heroes or not I'm concerned about talking to the public. We have spent

a year talking to ourselves. We need to convince the public on our

economy and have something to say on Brexit. Should Theresa May call an

election? No, I think she would think it

flashy to do it, opportunistic. It is the sort of politics she

despises. She is the anti-Cameron Prime Minister. So only if there

were an overwhelming public sentiment that she was in an

illegitimate position because she had not been elected, and there is

no sense of that at the moment. But to opportunistically go for an

election would be against her character. That is my sense, too. We

shall see. Now, Michael only agreed

to sashay his way back onto our sofa this week after one of our producers

promised to serve him Liz told him it's rage among

ex-footballers and we all know choo choo's desperate

to develop a common touch. Hidden camera footage also

shows him accepting a free Chipping Sodbury to Clapham Common

annual season ticket. Yes, it's not cheap

to bribe our Michael. That's why we've put 'stings'

in this week's Spotlight. It was an error in judgment on my

behalf and I paid the consequences. Error of judgment, or contempt for

the rules? Whatever your view, Sam Allardyce lost the England job this

week after being the subject of a Telegraph sting into alleged

corruption in football. I think the whole football world will be

laughing at England. It's a pretty embarrassing situation. It isn't the

first time the FA has been left red-faced by hacks in disguise. Sven

Goran Eriksson, one of big Sam's predecessors was stung by the man

people call the fake sheikh. But even the so-called King of the sting

is in court this week, accused of tampering with evidence in a case

against a former pop star. Labour Party boy Keith Vaz, who got badly

stung over the summer, seemed to keep a relatively low profile at

conference this week. He even cancelled his diversity night, which

he had run for almost two decades. Despite doing nothing illegal, his

confidence seemed shocked. Donal MacIntyre, seasoned investigative

journalist and criminologist knows a thing or two about going undercover,

so are all the sting is justified, or are they just prurient invasions

of privacy? Welcome to the programme. Do you

need good grounds for suspicion before it is right to mount a sting?

I think so. I think it depends on the ground rules and who you are

doing it for. For broadcasters the ground rules are strict. You can't

go on a fishing expedition. I remember we went into one care home

in advance of a care home investigation. Somebody went in

undercover, a colleague of mine, three weeks, reported the concerns,

said they were valid, and only then did I go undercover with a camera.

So there are various stages. The essence, for any of our lives, that

invasion of privacy is a huge hurdle to overcome. The question is, does

the evidence justified the means? You have two reach the threshold. It

has to be that invasion of privacy, it has to be overweight by

substantial public interest. So if you suspect somebody is corrupt and

you have good grounds for thinking that is the case, then you can set

up a sting, but it would be wrong to take cash and go flashing around to

see who takes it? That would be entrapment, and the phrase was an

easy and lazy defence, and a lot of people jump onto it in the football

world. People say it was entrapment. I think it is all about the ground

rules. The only people who know the ground rules are in fact the

Telegraph. But you have no doubt that with the expert PR machine

surrounding everybody in football, an expert litigators and lawyers who

will have worked for broadcasters defending broadcasters against those

trying to sue them and also working on behalf of the FA, for example,

and on behalf of Sam Allardyce. They know the rules and they know they

will have gone through substantively cool hoops before this was

published. So when you embark on this sort of operation, you have

given the target and your suspicions and maybe even some evidence. You

have a reasonable idea that the sting will work? You never quite

know. But the ground rules you put in place, lots of plans to ensure it

would work. It is a long sting. Some of them may take months, six months.

I was undercover in Nottingham 20 years ago and it was nine months

undercover for world in action before I mentioned drugs to my

target. I had been in the field for so long that they knew an undercover

officer would have blown it and asked questions in advance of that.

So we outstayed their welcome of even an undercover officer. In this

case, it is quite clear. The sting is most effective when it takes

place abroad, because naturally when you are abroad, first of all you are

geographically removed from the UK island where you are under scrutiny

every day as football managers and players would expect. Also, on

holiday, you let your guard down. If you add some alcohol and sunshine,

it feels a bit loose. He felt he was in a safe place. And of course he

wasn't. Good journalism, Michael? Obviously, I am worried because a

sting effectively involves lying, or tending to be somebody in something

that you are not. But with the sort of safeguards described, and if you

are pursuing corruption and certainly crime, the discovery of

corruption and crime are in the public interest. I still have many

doubts about things which make the public being in the public interest.

The people who most complain, when we did care home investigations and

found abuse of the elderly, the people who were most concerned about

the invasion of privacy of those who were actually hurt and injured were

the relatives of those, because they realised, OK, Johnny here has been

hurt. He is going to have to come back home now. So it is complex. The

key thing is invasion of privacy is a huge hurdle. You need a big public

interest to justify it. Are you comfortable with this kind of

journalism? I am a strong supporter of our free press and what you have

described for broadcasters, there are a lot of rules in place. I think

sometimes, as Michael says, you are not 100% convinced it is for

anything corrupt or illegal. It is just to reveal something about a

person's private life that I have no interest in whatsoever. But some of

the most important stories, you are talking about care homes, and the

BBC did some work looking into the care of people with learning

difficulties, that absolutely blew open a national scandal which I

think still has not been addressed, or people being put away in

long-stay homes. You are right that sometimes families will get worried,

feeling guilty that they have put the person there. But actually that

is in the public interest. People are being harmed and it is taxpayers

money being spent. If we expose some wrongdoing, clearly in Sam

Allardyce's case, his face was shown. In a care home, there is a

level of judgment we use. Do we show the face? We do it according to the

level of responsibility. I can't read you do over other people's

rules, but the broadcasters I have worked with, ITV and BBC, not only

are they tight. Not saying that I have not made mistakes, but there

are pretty tight safety nets. But things go wrong? Yes. But they never

see the light of day. I would imagine 30% of undercover

investigations might fall by the wayside because they do not get the

evidence sufficient for broadcast. There may be a level of personal

risk for the journalist involved. That is not always the case but

sometimes there is. Sometimes we overplay the risks to undercover

journalists. But you have done some pretty risky things to get the

story. Very good to see you. Thank you for being with us.

That's your lot for tonight folks, but not for us

because its renationalise the railways night at Lou Lous

Although, even he's not quite sure how anyone will pay for it or,

But there will be British Rail sandwiches on the menu. Those ones

that curl up at the edges. Nighty night, don't let

Jeremy Corbyn bite. # Though Coward 's flinch and

traitors fear # We'll keep the red flag flying

# # I believe that I'm on the right

track # Yes, I do

# Oh, baby # I'm on the right track.