02/03/2017 This Week


02/03/2017

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Firstly, I have to alert all our loyal followers

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and supporters that the soft coup is under way.

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It's planned, co-ordinated and fully resourced.

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It's being perpetrated by an alliance between the dark

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elements of the This Week sofas and the BBC Yentob empire,

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both intent on destroying me and all that I stand for.

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The Police Inspectorate reported that budgets have been cut, with

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some forces struggling to provide even a six services. An official NHS

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watchdog warned that the health service was standing on a burning

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platform with four out of five hospitals needing to improve basic

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patient safety, and the Independent and to chew for fiscal studies

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predicted planned cuts to welfare would drive 1 million children into

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poverty by 2020. So I don't know why you are so surprised that Labour is

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between 14 points and six team points ahead in the polls. With that

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sort of record, why would you not expect the Tories to be trailing

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badly. Simple. I'm sorry, what's that? The Tories are 16 points aired

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in the polls. I just don't believe that. It's the sort of fake news

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that gives journalism a bad name. Next you will be telling me the

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Tories won the Copeland by-election. And joining me, hiding in plain

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sight is the conspirator-in-chief, the Colour Of Shirt Trojan horse

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of late night political chat, Michael #ChooChooseYourFriends

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Portillo and with him, restoring the balance

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for good in this studio Liz Your moment of the week. I spent

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today trying to figure out how what Jeff Sessions said to Congress about

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not having had contact with the Russians could be anything other

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than lying. Despite my best efforts, I failed. It clearly was a lie, and

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the administration has already lost one senior official, the national

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security adviser, on contacts with the Russians. I do not see how they

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can avoid losing a second, the Attorney General. This issue about

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what the Russians were up to during the American election, and what the

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Republicans were up to with the Russians during the general election

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seems to be not going away. Did you see the Attorney General's press

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conference? I did. Then you will see why he in trouble. Your moment? John

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Major's Brexit speech. I remember when he beat Neil Kinnock, I

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remember ranting at the news. My boyfriend listened patiently for a

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while and then said, either shut up, or do something about it. That was

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when I joined the Labour Party. If you had told me 25 years later that

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I would agree with almost every word of a speech by John Major, I would

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have laughed. You are talking about his best friend, John Major. Not so

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much has changed for me in 25 years. He did tell us that he won

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Maastricht game, set and match. He did well with Maastricht. He was

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asked to do a couple of things needed them well. It what happened

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after that. Now, we received a mislabelled

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parcel this week. On the off chance it

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contained Blue Nun I'm afraid our production

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team opened it. To their great disappointment,

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it was a set of Russian dolls. First out, the biggest,

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Vladimir Putin. Next popped Donald Trump,

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then Mike Flynn, then Jeff Sessions. Oddly, the last one was just a small

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yellow bottle, probably Blue Nun, Anyways, we've forwarded

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it on to its original destination, a certain Boris

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at The Secret Entrance, So just to be on the safe side,

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we sent American Diplomat turned journalist, James Rubin

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to the This Week nuclear bunker Long before President Trump took

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office it felt like world events War raging in country

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after country in the Middle East. And countries in the heart

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of Europe being invaded, China laying claim to critical sea

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lanes in the South China Sea, with US patrols then sent

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to challenge Beijing. He says he wants good

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relations with Moscow. The problem is, somehow he can't

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find the words to criticise Russia's But he does have the time

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to bad-mouth the trade policies and defence alliances that have

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served us so well, that have given us peace and prosperity in Europe

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and Asia for 70 years now. That's why he sponsors extremists

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for elections here in Europe, The White House should be

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stopping him, not creating a crisis of confidence that will only end

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up helping him. After eight years of overreach under

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President Bush and the war in Iraq, the pendulum swung back the other

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way, and America retrenched What we need is a steady hand

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somewhere in the middle. 50 billion more for defence

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is not the answer. We need a new President to inspire,

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to restore confidence, Working together, America and Europe

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still have the power If only our leaders

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would have the will. Thanks to bunker 51 in Greenwich

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for releasing Jamie Rubin. Welcome back. You said that the

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White House should be stopping Putin, but stopping him from what

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and how? Well, first of all, it wouldn't be beyond the capabilities

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of the United States to have counteracted all of this

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interference in the US election, in the French election now, in the

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German election. We keep hearing about Russian efforts to damage our

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democratic system. It wouldn't be impossible for the United States to

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have responded stronger to Ukraine in the past. And I certainly don't

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think we should ignore the fact that Russia has invaded another country.

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The thing about Trump, all of this, I don't know what really happened

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but I cannot figure out why he can't criticise this invasion of another

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country. You don't have to be for sanctions to criticise it. But why

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can't he do that? Wasn't it Obama's job to stop Russian interference in

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the election? He was the President. I would agree that it is now

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apparent that President Obama and his team should have been tough on

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the Russians. Every time they interfered, there was no response.

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So it is not Donald Trump's fault. It is his fault for not recognising

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this is a problem. It is his fault for not telling us we need to gather

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together and working unity. The reason the United States and the

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West succeeded in all those years is when we were together and United and

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agreed on the problem. Right now, Germany, Britain, France, they don't

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agree with the United States on Vladimir Putin. Nobody can figure

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out why Mr Trump is so calm about Putin's activities. What's wrong

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with trying to reset relations with Russia? I don't think there would be

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anything particularly wrong about that. I want to go back over where

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we have been. Crimea was invaded by Russia when Obama was President, and

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Putin predicted there would be no reaction from Obama, and he was dead

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right. I think the invasion of Crimea was largely provoked by

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European Union Foreign Minister is interfering in Ukraine, which

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presented either a threat or an excuse to Russia. The fact is that

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since President Trump has become President, nothing has happened.

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There may be an absence of language you would have welcomed but nothing

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has happened except that he has declared he will increase defence

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spending, and has told his European Union and Nato partners quite

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rightly that they should increase their defence spending because they

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are freeloading on the United States in Europe. That message has been

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delivered more strongly by Trump than it was by Obama. If one is

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going to talk about what the President has said, it is true there

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may have been an absence of Cold War rhetoric... It is not Cold War

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rhetoric. But it is also true that he has done two things to the

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disadvantage of Russia. Michael, I hope your comfort level with Donald

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Trump sustains itself throughout these years. You dismiss as Cold War

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rhetoric the idea that the President of the United States should declare,

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with vigour and determination, that a country in Europe should not

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invade its neighbour and annex a portion of it. That is still going

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on right now, Michael. It is not something that happened years ago.

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There is a war in Ukraine. What can America do about it? He can declare

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it as a problem. The fact that he can't criticise the Russian invasion

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of Ukraine is what is troubling me. What you have said is fine, but to

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dismiss that as Cold War rhetoric I do not understand. Lives, what is

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your take? Coming back to your question of what is wrong with it,

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if you take Trump at his word about what he wants to achieve, in many

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cases, Russia wants the opposite. Trump says he wants to defeat

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so-called Islamic State. In Syria, Russia has actually not been

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fighting Islamic State, but fighting the rebels against Assad. Trump

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wants to contain China. Russia is too weak politically, economically,

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militarily, to do that, actually wants to boost trade with China

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because of its struggling economy. Another objective might be to

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confront Iran. And again, all the evidence is that Russia is working

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with Iran in the Middle East. Russia's primary objective is to

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divide and undermine the confidence of the West, and ultimately that

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will be bad for Trump. So the truth is, his strategic objectives, even

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as he set them, will not be achieved by cosying up to Putin. Mr Trump

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thinks that Russia is largely Europe's problem, a regional issue.

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He sees China as the threat to US interests. He thinks that Europe

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should sort out Russia. It is their problem. I don't know that he has

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made that judgment but I would disagree on these grounds. Russia's

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behaviour in the last few years is a problem for the world. When a great

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power decides to throw away 50 years of policy and invade their neighbour

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and annex a piece of it, whether you think Crimea should be Russian or

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not, the last great power to do that, we all know, was Germany. So

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it's a problem. Maybe not the end of the world, but to not identify it as

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a problem, that is where my problem is. He thinks it is Europe's

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problem. It is the world's problem. It is a basic rule of international

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relations. If you don't except that, we have big problems. Then you go to

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Syria and Iran, and if it had not been to Russia working with Iran,

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the Assad regime would never be where it is today. That is bad for

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the world, to stand by and watch Syria do what it did. And for the

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United States to seed the Middle East to the Russians, we will be

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sorry one day. It is not a regional problem. When Russia interferes with

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elections. None of this happened on Trump's watch. It is happening

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today. Interference in Germany and France is happening today. Russian

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policy in Syria is happening today. Russian planes are interfering with

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Nato officials across northern Europe today. We might have an

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incident in the Balkans tomorrow. To dismiss this as ancient history is

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not serious. I'm not dismissing it. President

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Obama's only just left office, remember, he can come here and, you

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know, via us, elected President Trump. You are talking about me. You

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haven't been listening. I have. You declared me the man who was Obama's

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supporter. I said in the piece, and I hope you were paying attention, I

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said that George Bush overreached through the invasion of Iraq and

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then I said that President Obama underreached and retrenched in the

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United States and that what we need is somewhere in the middle so please

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don't dismiss me as an Obama lover who's suddenly criticising Trump.

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Listen to what I said on the tape, I think Donald Trump is bad for us

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because we need somebody in the middle, we don't want overreach, we

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don't want underreach, we should just be the leader that the world

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needs right now. I have a feeling that Trump may turn out to be

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exactly what you desire: I hope so. Which is something in the middle and

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certainly the two things he already said, the extra spending and telling

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NATO to gets its act together, would push us in that direction. It's

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saying it's time Europe paid more for its defence. They say, you can't

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expect the US to pay more for the European children than the Europeans

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do. I've been a strong supporter of NATO paying what they said they'd

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pay. Misses May said it will be 2024. She runs a massive budget

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surplus. If you make a commitment as part of NATO or any organisation,

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you should meet it. What I don't think will make the world safer is

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to kind of engage in what, as has been announced in some unnecessary

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and frankly dangerous nuclear arms race - in cutting funding for the

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State Department and foreign aid, I don't think he could be reducing

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America's influence in the world and making states less safe. It raises

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big questions for the UK because we used to be a leader in Europe and a

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bridge between Britain and Europe. Now we are neither. The Europeans

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will need us more than ever now. They will on the defence side. Let

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me say this. You know, our objectives are also different. This

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is actually a point John Major made in his speech. We want to contain

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Russia and engage China and Trump wants to, you know, engage Russia

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and engage China. We have very different objectives on trade,

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refugees and we have a different view about protectionism. I think

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this is going to put us in an extremely difficult position if

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Theresa May believes that having a much, much closer relationship with

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Trump is going to be the solution to all of our problems. Trump wants to

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take a tougher line with China, that's clear. That means he can't be

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seen to be too soft on Russia because Beijing will see that as a

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sign of weakness? Look, what you say on its surface is fair enough. The

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problem is, Donald Trump doesn't know what he thinks. One day he was

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making a phone call to the President of Taiwan, saying I reject the one

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China policy that's been the basis since Richard Nixon and Henry

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Kissinger started relations with China and the Chinese said, oh, if

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that's really your position, we don't want to talk to you. So Donald

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Trump capitulated and he agreed to the one China policy before the

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President of China would even get on the phone with him. This is amateur

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hour in the extreme. You can find all the silver linings you want but

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when an amateur takes over in the Whitehouse when leadership is so

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important after eight years of going one way and eight years of going the

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other way, it's a real danger for the world. Amateur hour at the

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Whitehouse is what I'm worried about. Thank you.

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Now it's late, clay pigeon shooting with Francois Hollande late,

:18:48.:18:49.

but worry not, this program spends half its time misfiring and look

:18:50.:18:53.

Cause for celebration, so waiting in the wings is the don

:18:54.:19:06.

of dancing DJs David Rodigan is here to put codes

:19:07.:19:09.

So save your Facebullets, stand down the twitter tanks,

:19:10.:19:12.

If we'd never the Oscars wasn't a tedious lovy fest and reinvented

:19:13.:19:31.

itself as the funniest show on earth, we'd have been off to

:19:32.:19:35.

Hollywood in a shot. Here is Kevin Maguire with his award-winning

:19:36.:19:36.

political round-up of the week. Now, the entire This Week team have

:19:37.:19:58.

been casting their votes It all started when I offered odds

:19:59.:20:04.

on the Labour winning in Copeland. Now I'm in serious trouble

:20:05.:20:26.

and unless I get the money back, This Week's production values

:20:27.:20:30.

will be rubbish. The political week started

:20:31.:20:32.

with a row over changes The Prime Minister's policy adviser,

:20:33.:20:36.

George Freeman, defended withholding assistance for people with mental

:20:37.:20:41.

health issues, arguing Benefits have been given to people

:20:42.:20:46.

who take pills at home, We want to make sure we get

:20:47.:20:51.

the money to the really Things are going from bad

:20:52.:20:55.

to worse with Labour. With odds this long,

:20:56.:21:02.

perhaps it's worth a punt on Corbyn Then again, with Labour

:21:03.:21:05.

imploding, who could hold Coming up on the inside,

:21:06.:21:14.

it's Aaron Banks Moneybags. Arron Banks Moneybags is gaining

:21:15.:21:22.

on Quisling Carswell. But out of retirement, we've not

:21:23.:21:24.

heard the last of Nigel Farage, Quisling Carswell has

:21:25.:21:28.

bitten Nigel Farage. And crossing the line,

:21:29.:21:31.

the entire Ukip Derby is riderless. Jockeying for position among Ukip's

:21:32.:21:38.

senior figures has left the party in disarray,

:21:39.:21:44.

with donor Arron Banks this week threatening to stand

:21:45.:21:48.

against its only MP, And there were claims Carswell tried

:21:49.:21:50.

to block a knighthood And unlike Sir Philip Green, Nige

:21:51.:21:54.

can't afford 363 million to get one. So, Mr Farage pretty much

:21:55.:22:00.

thinks Carswell should He tried to undermine

:22:01.:22:07.

everything we've stood for for a very long time,

:22:08.:22:13.

in terms of policy, Do you think you

:22:14.:22:16.

deserve a knighthood? The Tories are romping home

:22:17.:22:19.

and Mrs May's got tight reins But some of the Conservatives

:22:20.:22:39.

are a bit skittish about Brexit. Eight months ago, a majority

:22:40.:22:44.

of voters opted to leave I believed then, as I do now,

:22:45.:22:49.

that was an historic mistake. A hard Brexit, which is

:22:50.:22:56.

where we appear to be But the Foreign Secretary

:22:57.:22:59.

was having none of it. Sometimes I get a bit impatient

:23:00.:23:10.

when I hear people droning and moaning about the state

:23:11.:23:14.

of the world, and I hear them warn that the sky's

:23:15.:23:18.

about fall on our heads, or not inconsiderably likely

:23:19.:23:21.

to fall on our heads. The odds are lengthening

:23:22.:23:24.

considerably on an easy ride for the Brexit Bill,

:23:25.:23:30.

after the Lords this week in the committee stage passed

:23:31.:23:35.

a significant amendment protecting These people need to know now,

:23:36.:23:37.

not in two years' time, They simply can't put

:23:38.:23:46.

their lives on hold. Just as Brexit means Brexit, legally

:23:47.:23:51.

resident means legally resident. And were I in that position,

:23:52.:23:54.

I would be much more concerned to have a statutory right,

:23:55.:23:59.

than a political assurance. I borrowed a fiver off Michael,

:24:00.:24:03.

and when he wanted it back after ten seconds,

:24:04.:24:19.

he set the bailiffs on me. I just need one high stakes

:24:20.:24:23.

win to turn it round. Talking of high stakes,

:24:24.:24:29.

people in Northern Ireland went to the polls today to elect

:24:30.:24:36.

a new power-sharing executive, but tensions between the DUP

:24:37.:24:39.

and Sinn Fein mean forming that executive might be difficult,

:24:40.:24:41.

raising the possibility The Labour leader went

:24:42.:24:43.

on benefit cuts at PMQs Even up against jokes

:24:44.:25:04.

as bad as this. Withdraw this deep decision,

:25:05.:25:10.

this nasty decision, accept the court's judgment,

:25:11.:25:12.

and support those going through a very difficult

:25:13.:25:14.

time in their lives. After the result in Copeland last

:25:15.:25:18.

week, the honourable member for Lancaster and Fleetwood summed

:25:19.:25:28.

up the by-election result by saying it was an incredible result

:25:29.:25:32.

for the Labour Party. You know, I think that word actually

:25:33.:25:34.

describes the right honourable This is the EU's

:25:35.:25:37.

headquarters in London. They've got loads of money

:25:38.:25:46.

and experience dealing Ich bin ein desperado

:25:47.:25:49.

from This Week. They've sold it to

:25:50.:25:56.

the Tories already. I'm off to busk

:25:57.:26:05.

outside of Annabel's. They're not going to let him into

:26:06.:26:12.

Annabel's. And with us, a man who like everyone

:26:13.:26:31.

else who ends up on the This Week sofa, realises his career

:26:32.:26:35.

is done and dusted. Former SNP supremo in

:26:36.:26:37.

Chief, Alex Salmond. Liz, does the House of Lords vote

:26:38.:26:48.

matter? I hope it does. I hope it persuades some Conservative MPs to

:26:49.:26:51.

change their mind and back that amendment. I think it is the right

:26:52.:26:58.

thing to do for people who came here believing their future would be

:26:59.:27:02.

secure. It's actually right for our economy at the moment because we

:27:03.:27:08.

need EU citizens doing those jobs. I think it's also, if we did it, it

:27:09.:27:12.

would be a signal of goodwill in terms of the negotiations with the

:27:13.:27:15.

rest of Europe. Given all that, Labour's going to throw in the towel

:27:16.:27:19.

after one round of Ping-Pong, aren't they? Well, we accept the result of

:27:20.:27:22.

the referendum. I wish it was something otherwise but it is the

:27:23.:27:27.

referendum, it happened and I believe when we have referendums, we

:27:28.:27:30.

accept the result. The House of Lords vote then probably won't

:27:31.:27:35.

matter will it? Not if Labour raise the white flag on it. It's the

:27:36.:27:39.

weakest point of the Bill because there probably is a natural majority

:27:40.:27:44.

even in the Commons who if left to their own devices would choose that

:27:45.:27:50.

amendment. Of course, the point you make about resolve, if a Government

:27:51.:27:56.

is going to back down, they have to believe the opposition are going to

:27:57.:27:58.

take the matter all the way. And they don't. And therefore that is a

:27:59.:28:03.

big weakness. Nor do I accept, people say oh well that's the result

:28:04.:28:08.

of the referendum and it didn't on the ballot paper say European

:28:09.:28:11.

citizens low pressure their rights jeopardised, it didn't say we are

:28:12.:28:15.

coming out the single market. It's a perfectly legitimate case for

:28:16.:28:17.

putting the heat on the Government far, far more than the opposition is

:28:18.:28:22.

doing. The House of Lords is full of people who want a soft Brexit,

:28:23.:28:27.

rather than a hard Brexit. If you give away an important point before

:28:28.:28:30.

we have had a negotiation, it follows that the Brexit will be

:28:31.:28:34.

harder than it otherwise would be? It doesn't follow at all. I think it

:28:35.:28:40.

does. I agree about the gesture of goodwill. At the end of the day,

:28:41.:28:43.

everybody believes that the rights of European citizens in the UK and

:28:44.:28:48.

the rights of UK citizens in the European Union will not be

:28:49.:28:51.

jeopardised and will be protected. Therefore this is a kind of falses a

:28:52.:28:56.

Margaret Beckett of negotiations -- false aspect of negotiations. Then

:28:57.:29:00.

don't interfere with the Bill. Except of course that... It's very

:29:01.:29:04.

well for you to sit on the sofa and say that but for people who're at

:29:05.:29:07.

the hot end of this, you know, who've had their position described

:29:08.:29:10.

as a bargaining chip, my constituents do not see this as...

:29:11.:29:16.

Well, as Norman Tebbit said, you are worrying about people living in

:29:17.:29:19.

Britain without worrying about the British people. Actually, the more

:29:20.:29:23.

important amendment is about trying to get Parliament to have a

:29:24.:29:26.

meaningful vote on the final relationship. That's such humbug.

:29:27.:29:32.

It's not. How... That is the way that we I think do keep the pressure

:29:33.:29:36.

up on Theresa May not to have a hard Brexit. It also I think would

:29:37.:29:41.

strengthen her hand with the E usmt - I know you disagree - she would be

:29:42.:29:45.

able to say to them, the House won't support it if you give it a bad

:29:46.:29:50.

deal. That's what's so important about it. -- the EU. We spend years

:29:51.:29:55.

negotiating. At the end we get the best possible deal and it's brought

:29:56.:30:00.

back to Britain and Parliament says oh no, that's not good enough. The

:30:01.:30:04.

European Union will say, sorry, we didn't realise that the House of

:30:05.:30:09.

Commons wouldn't agree. MEPs can do much more to scrutinise what the

:30:10.:30:13.

Commission does. We are about to have many more powers by leaving the

:30:14.:30:16.

European Union. I would have thought you would have wanted British MPs to

:30:17.:30:22.

have the same power as MPs. Enough of Europe. Let's move on.

:30:23.:30:30.

Why isn't Nicola Sturgeon as keen as you tap a second independence

:30:31.:30:39.

referendum. I am sure there is no difference between us on that.

:30:40.:30:43.

Nicola is going about things the right way. She has offered

:30:44.:30:47.

compromise proposals which have been knocked down one by one. The last

:30:48.:30:51.

one is the proposal to keep Scotland in the single market even if the

:30:52.:30:56.

rest of the UK goes out, an argument which has been described as possible

:30:57.:31:00.

by a Cabinet minister. That is the one that the UK Government have

:31:01.:31:05.

still to respond to. If they do not respond in the way that she would

:31:06.:31:10.

like, will there be a second referendum? The criteria is to put

:31:11.:31:16.

it in as part of the negotiating position. My understanding is that

:31:17.:31:20.

they will not go that route. Forgive her if she waits for the decision. I

:31:21.:31:26.

was struck by a quote from a Downing Street source in the Times which

:31:27.:31:31.

said, we might have three constitutional crises together,

:31:32.:31:34.

Brexit, is Scottish referendum and direct rule in Northern Ireland. It

:31:35.:31:38.

was said as if these things were coming as an act of God. They are

:31:39.:31:43.

within the ability of Downing Street to have them altogether or not. But

:31:44.:31:49.

I asked if, in your view, there would be a second independence

:31:50.:31:54.

referendum. If the government sweeps aside the compromise proposal from

:31:55.:31:58.

Nicola Sturgeon, if they are not interested in the view of the

:31:59.:32:02.

Scottish parliament, jobs, security in the marketplace, then in Nicola

:32:03.:32:07.

Sturgeon's bone words, a referendum becomes very likely. But she is not

:32:08.:32:12.

going to call for a second referendum unless she thinks she can

:32:13.:32:16.

win. There is evidence that there is more support for that now than there

:32:17.:32:20.

was previously. That is a real political problem. Two thirds of

:32:21.:32:26.

people do not want a second referendum. That is not true either.

:32:27.:32:35.

Two thirds of people do not want a second referendum and it looks like

:32:36.:32:38.

it would be the same result, and that is a real problem for the SNP.

:32:39.:32:44.

There have been 18 polls since the Brexit vote. 17 out of 18 have shown

:32:45.:32:49.

support for independence on a binary choice higher than it was in

:32:50.:32:56.

September 2000 and 14. They still show a minority, though. Not all of

:32:57.:33:02.

them. But on a poll of polls it would still be... About 47, 40 8%.

:33:03.:33:11.

The last one was 49%. I recall the independence referendum was 28% for

:33:12.:33:16.

a yes vote back in 2012. If I was prepared to do it at 28%, I do not

:33:17.:33:25.

think Nicola Sturgeon would mind at 47%. But she has always contended

:33:26.:33:28.

there would only be a second referendum if it was the clear will

:33:29.:33:32.

of the Scottish people and the polls do not show that. The manifesto

:33:33.:33:39.

commitment from last year when she was elected with 47% of the vote was

:33:40.:33:44.

that the Scottish parliament should have the right to hold a referendum

:33:45.:33:47.

if Scotland is faced with being dragged out of Europe against the

:33:48.:33:52.

will of the Scottish people. That is a clear mandate. I interviewed her

:33:53.:33:57.

and she said we will have won if the Scottish people want one. The only

:33:58.:34:01.

way to judge that is from the polls, which are quite clear that they do

:34:02.:34:10.

not want one. I think if we gained as much ground as we did in the last

:34:11.:34:15.

referendum... I am talking about having a referendum. Nicola has

:34:16.:34:21.

described the chances of another referendum in the event of that

:34:22.:34:24.

compromise proposal not being accepted or included in the UK

:34:25.:34:29.

negotiating position as very likely. With respect to the Westminster

:34:30.:34:34.

observers, you would be very foolish to underrate the resolve of Nicola

:34:35.:34:40.

Sturgeon. Are you up for a second referendum? I find it extraordinary

:34:41.:34:43.

that the UK Government has managed to put itself in a position where

:34:44.:34:48.

apparently the SNP can call a referendum whenever it feels the

:34:49.:34:51.

opinion polls are drifting in its direction. The incompetence involved

:34:52.:34:57.

in the UK legislation that enabled the first referendum is

:34:58.:35:00.

extraordinary. Alex said, when the first referendum result was

:35:01.:35:05.

concluded, that it was settled for a generation, and many people would

:35:06.:35:09.

feel cheated that the SNP view is that whenever opinion polls swing in

:35:10.:35:11.

their direction they would like another referendum. You do not

:35:12.:35:18.

dispute the event from the SNP manifesto, that the Scottish

:35:19.:35:22.

Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum. It is clear

:35:23.:35:27.

enough. It is clear but we are not bound to agree with it. You said at

:35:28.:35:33.

the time that it was settled for a generation. Yes, but that was last

:35:34.:35:39.

year. Yes, and now you are saying something else. Last year in the

:35:40.:35:42.

manifesto for the Scottish elections, Nicola Sturgeon put

:35:43.:35:48.

forward that proposition. You have kicked yourself ever since you said

:35:49.:35:54.

it was settled for a generation. You made one mistake when you said it

:35:55.:35:58.

was for a generation and another when you left the leadership. I have

:35:59.:36:04.

made many mistakes. What if the Westminster government says, if you

:36:05.:36:07.

want a second referendum, you should have one, but you can't have one

:36:08.:36:14.

until the Brexit deal is done, until the Scottish people know what the

:36:15.:36:18.

choice is, Britain out of the EU on these terms, or independence? On a

:36:19.:36:24.

clear manifesto commitment, if there is a majority in the Scottish

:36:25.:36:28.

Parliament, my view is that the boat sailed when David Cameron first

:36:29.:36:32.

resisted the idea of a Scottish referendum. You have a referendum

:36:33.:36:39.

before we knew the terms of Brexit? The soonest we go have a referendum

:36:40.:36:45.

is next autumn. The shape of the Brexit deal will be done. Not the

:36:46.:36:52.

way that Europe operates. It would be the prospect of a certain

:36:53.:36:56.

European future against the uncertainty of Brexit, which seems

:36:57.:37:00.

an appealing prospect on which to hold a referendum. John McDonnell

:37:01.:37:10.

thinks there is a soft coup under way against the late -- Labour

:37:11.:37:15.

leadership, so he's inviting Peter Mandelson ran for tea, a euphemism

:37:16.:37:19.

for breaking his legs. Here, a cup of tea means just that, and to keep

:37:20.:37:25.

this well oiled machine running cast and crew have to abide by civilised

:37:26.:37:30.

norms. No kneeling on the sofas, no knee capping and no Pete Doherty.

:37:31.:37:34.

That is why we are putting codes of conduct in the spotlight.

:37:35.:37:41.

Parliament is a place where politicians fight.

:37:42.:37:45.

I think that word actually describes the right honourable

:37:46.:37:48.

But do codes of conduct keep scraps good, clean fun?

:37:49.:37:59.

Not for Labour's Mary Creagh on Tuesday.

:38:00.:38:01.

I would urge her not to be hysterical about

:38:02.:38:03.

I expect that sort of language from the sketch writers

:38:04.:38:08.

of the Daily Mail, not from the Chancellor

:38:09.:38:10.

What are the rules when it comes to clashes between

:38:11.:38:17.

Nigel Farage gave Ukip's sole MP, Douglas Carswell,

:38:18.:38:21.

I dislike him because he damaged me, Ukip and the Leave campaign.

:38:22.:38:26.

I've been campaigning to get rid of him for a very long time.

:38:27.:38:30.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump continued to tear up

:38:31.:38:40.

the civilised rules of engagement between politicians and press.

:38:41.:38:45.

They say that we can't criticise their dishonest coverage

:38:46.:38:48.

You know, they always bring up "the first amendment".

:38:49.:38:53.

But the Donald upheld a collegiate code when he called for politicians

:38:54.:38:56.

to set aside their differences for the sake of the nation during

:38:57.:39:00.

Democrats and Republicans should get together and unite

:39:01.:39:06.

As did parliamentarians and journalists, for charity,

:39:07.:39:11.

# Sound boy, Rodigan no inna no fuss and fight.#

:39:12.:39:24.

Clashes are reggae DJ David Rodigan's bread-and-butter.

:39:25.:39:26.

So are codes of conduct essential to keeping competition fun

:39:27.:39:31.

Welcome to the prop -- programme. You specialise in sound clash. Does

:39:32.:39:56.

it have a code of conduct? Definitely, stretching back over 60

:39:57.:40:01.

years. Jamaicans love contest. In the late 50s and rolling into the

:40:02.:40:07.

1960s, enormous mobile discos would travel around entertaining local

:40:08.:40:11.

communities. They were powered and driven by acetate switch were

:40:12.:40:17.

exclusive recordings. Then they started importing records from

:40:18.:40:20.

America and then making their own records. And the essence of this

:40:21.:40:24.

culture is that ultimately boils down to contest, who can draw the

:40:25.:40:29.

biggest crowd. The quality of the sound system and teams of sound

:40:30.:40:33.

system players, at least half a dozen, they'll have a job to do. In

:40:34.:40:38.

later years, that lead to actual clashing. Thousands would turn up

:40:39.:40:45.

for these. They have them in New York, Jamaica, Japan. It is a

:40:46.:40:47.

worldwide phenomenon, incredibly popular. To watch an Italian sound

:40:48.:40:53.

system crashing against German sound systems is something to behold. They

:40:54.:40:59.

are that obsessed with the culture. And they follow a code of conduct.

:41:00.:41:05.

The rules are clear. You have to have a spokesperson for your sound

:41:06.:41:08.

system. They are called a Mike person. And they have too referred

:41:09.:41:13.

to the track that has just been played. If you go to the grand

:41:14.:41:21.

finale, the one for one, there is an elimination process with six or

:41:22.:41:24.

eight sound systems and you are left with two. It lasts for five hours

:41:25.:41:30.

and you are left with two, a play-off. They played the best of

:41:31.:41:33.

ten and every recording has to be unique and have then a minute. So

:41:34.:41:40.

all of this has been customised. If your competitor plays a song by

:41:41.:41:45.

Johnny Osborne, your speech has to connect to that track, the rhythm

:41:46.:41:50.

track, or something that would lead you and your team to playing a

:41:51.:41:53.

better Johnny Osborne, or a reaction to that Johnny Osborne. The speech

:41:54.:41:58.

is all-important and it can sometimes get a bigger forward, a

:41:59.:42:02.

Jamaican expression for a response from the crowd, than the record. The

:42:03.:42:07.

speaker is very important. Listening to you, if this has rules of

:42:08.:42:14.

conduct, which seems like a clash without rules, it seems that

:42:15.:42:17.

everything needs rules of conduct in some way, to work. Of course. That

:42:18.:42:25.

is how it works best. It is when people break the rules of conduct

:42:26.:42:28.

and punch below the belt and make unnecessary comments because they

:42:29.:42:32.

are lost for words and do not know what to say in connection to the

:42:33.:42:36.

music... What draws people to the clash is how exclusive the music is.

:42:37.:42:43.

Is the arbiter of the crowd? Absolutely. Thousands of die-hard

:42:44.:42:47.

fans will stand in Brooklyn from 9pm until 4am. They will not like it if

:42:48.:42:56.

you break the rules. They do not like it. Sometimes the race card is

:42:57.:43:01.

used, personal comments are made, and the crowd react accordingly. You

:43:02.:43:09.

love it, don't you? We should go on a trip to see one. It is phenomenal.

:43:10.:43:15.

I got into it with a fellow broadcaster. I worked for the BBC on

:43:16.:43:19.

Sunday evenings and years ago I started working with a colleague in

:43:20.:43:24.

Jamaica and we did a radio clash. Where can we see you next? In a

:43:25.:43:31.

field somewhere this summer. I did not want to bring them in because

:43:32.:43:34.

they did not know what you were talking about, and they were

:43:35.:43:37.

learning something, which is always useful.

:43:38.:43:40.

Now, that's your lot for tonight bruvs, but not for dis crew.

:43:41.:43:43.

We be reppin hard at ma girl LouLou's crib innit.

:43:44.:43:46.

I have strictly no idea what I'm saying.

:43:47.:43:52.

For those of you who can't hack the pace of an all-

:43:53.:43:54.

nighter, we leave you with the settling sounds of Melania Trump

:43:55.:43:59.

reading to children at a New York Hospital.

:44:00.:44:06.

Nighty night, don't let Dr Seuss, or for that matter,

:44:07.:44:09.

I came here to encourage everyone to read and to

:44:10.:44:27.

just think about the books and what you want to achieve in life.

:44:28.:44:37.

You can steer yourself any directions you choose.

:44:38.:45:00.

You're too smart to go down any too so good street.

:45:01.:45:06.

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