Is Saudi Arabia a Dangerous Ally? This Week's World

Welcome to This Week's World - tasked with turning your gentle

Saturday teatime into a meaty doorstopper sandwich

We'll be looking at the parrot who could be a vital witness

to murder, the footballing nations you'll never find in the Euros and -

in the week ABBA reformed - we've been to Sweden.

This week we turn the spotlight on Saudi Arabia - do we like doing

How comfortable are we having them as allies?

From increased executions, to a tanking economy under

a new King, it's been a remarkable year in Saudi Arabia.

We report from there and ask if we can believe

Plus, how does Kim Jong Un of North Korea get the money

We meet the foreign businessmen who keep him

Before that, what other stories have made the week and here are ours.

On show five of This Week's World, it's time for a week in numbers.

14,000 - that's the sum of mourners at Mumammad Ali's

20 minutes of action - that's how the father of this

Stamford student referred to his son's criminal behaviour

after he was convicted of rape - cue global outrage with both

When the sentencing came out, people lost faith

6-5 - the penalty score that held Abkhazia as victors

in the unrecognised States of the World World Cup.

Forget the Euros - these are the ones that really count.

40,000 - the number of people London's first naked restaurant

Diners are told to liberate themselves by leaving

Five - the number of times a Michigan man was shot,

The witness, his pet parrot, Budd, who can't stop

Now, the family want the parrot on the witness stand.

Our panelists today are Emma Barnet, she's been tech and women's editor

at the Daily Telegraph and will soon be hosting a daily daytime

With her, the journalist and acclaimed author, Tahmima Anam.

Talk us through the burn of the week. Bernie Saunders is dropping

out of the Democratic presidential nomination. Hillary has declared

herself and has been declared the nominee. I don't think he's

burnt-out. I was a huge Bernie supporter. He made a huge impact on

American politics. It was great to have a conversation that was so

Anthony-Trum also he was from outside the establishment.

Anti--Hillary in parts? Was. It I think that now is the time for

people to rally behind Hillary. This is a moment for women. Even if she

doesn't want to do that. Part of being the first woman to go for this

office is that you have to own that, but, at the same time, be like I'm

the candidate, never mind my gender shechl can't sort of win, I feel.

People are writing saying - how can she be one of the people wearing a

$112,000 jacket. When she looks like rushish they say we can't voter. Her

is gender is often against her. She went on TV to show her warm side

with pre-planned photos of her grandchild. She used to sing to her

own daughter. Ittic aches you want to be sick. I don't know how you

feel about. It I don't need my politicians to be warm and look

good, I need them to be good at politics. She is read as being a

product of the political machinery for better or worse. She is really

going to have to address that to bale Donald Trump. Centre stage it's

interesting to see what in Turkey Erdogan is doing now, the fanfare of

who he is? Absolutely. Everyone is trying promote himself as a

pan-Islamic leader. You note he was supposed to speak at Muhammad Ali's

funeral but has been uninvited, partly due to the sexist comments he

made last week. A woman being uncomplete if she chooses to work

without having children. I'm incomplete. The whitewash? The

writer of the Gladiator film wants to make a film about Rumi. He

claimed he would last to cast, Leonard owe Dee cap Rio. People are

outraged about this. Un-Persian characters you can imagine? Because

they're white. One is Iron Man. People are outraged about this. It's

typical Hollywood whitewashing. This isn't just a story that he has

written a fictional story. It's a historical figure, a poet revered

throughout history and all over the world. He is known to be like the

most popular poet in the United States. To really - he claims he

wants to do this to change sterotypes about Muslims. To do this

by casting two white actors as the main characters seems pointless. If

he was seeking the publicity he has probably got it now. Emma, holiday

snap of the There are three week. Guys they put online they had got

misguided in their trip on a boat. Had ended up in Syria. They took

some photos in front of graffitied walls. Media outlets fell for it

saying it was the big boat trip that went wrong. They were drunk, having

a laugh. Came out on Facebook it was a prank. At a time not to be

joyless, good for them, they made the headlines for the wrong reasons.

When we are dealing with an unusual amount of displaced people from

those parts of the world that are suffering immensely, it wasn't the

coolest prank. So many people have died trying to get here. To imagine

one would fall asleep and wake up in Syria is ridiculous. Stranger things

have happened on the internet. I suppose so. Thank you.

Facing allegations this week it bullied and blackmailed the UN

until it was removed from a Human Rights blacklist.

But it's also a country in the midst of massive political

A country made rich on oil may now have to rethink its future

And, it's a country fighting an illegal war in Yemen.

Just over a year ago, a new King was crowned.

Have a look at what happened inside Saudi since.

The economy has tanked, shown in falling government

And, at the same time, the numbers of people thought to be

executed in the Kingdom has risen dramatically.

We dedicate much of this edition of This Week's World to exploring

Saudi and its relations with the West.

The Deputy Crown Prince has laid out his vision of economic reforms,

but political repression is on the up.

Saudi journalist, Safaa Al Ahmed, looks at what the government

It's a lesson you learn quickly in Saudi Arabia.

To be publicly critical of the Saudi government can land

In the past year, the government has become even more oppressive.

Taha has represented some of the most high-profile

Most notably, Nimr al-Nimr, who was executed on 2nd

Nimr's nephew, Ali, was arrested when he was 17 years

Since the beginning of 2016 there were the executions of 47

people and all of these cases I could guarantee are,

Regardless if these people have done something wrong or not.

Abdulaziz represented some of the most iconic Saudi

The message, at least to me, is clear is -

regardless of where you come from in Saudi Arabia

and what is your background, what is your ideology

and if you are from the majority or the minority, if you oppose

the government you might face this end.

Many of the 47 cases were held in what is called

The job for this Specialised Criminal Court is to make anyone

If the Minister of Interior himself has been sent to this

Specialised Criminal Court, he will be found guilty.

One of those found guilty by the court and executed was a minor.

It is a clear violation of Saudi Arabia's obligations

Not only minors are put in jail, even the elderly have

Sulaimanl-Rashoodi was a judge for two decades, was sentenced to 15

years in prison for the crime of breaking allegiance

His lawyer, Abdulaziz, has also paid a high price.

Two days after the government sent two of my clients to prison,

So I had to decide between prison and exile.

I believed that I will be more useful in exile than in prison,

Abdulaziz and Taha are among many who ended up taking the path

of exile rather than be silenced in Saudi jails.

It's not just human rights inside the country.

This week the UN included Saudi on its list of government forces

blacklisted for causing the death of children in Yemen and then

appeared to row back under pressure, the suspicion is, from Saudi

Meanwhie, public outrage towards the country and its human

rights stance is growing and governments around the world

I went to Sweden - which embraces a self-styled

feminist foreign policy - and spoke to Foreign Secretary

and former EU Commissioner, Margot Wallstom

slapped down by Riyadh last year after referring to Saudi

I was not the only one who criticised the flogging of a

blogger. I think that it has to be seen in the context of a long

history, also the previous Swedish government had with Saudi Arabia

over weapons exports. I think that gave us a particular role. So, of

course, that criticism, I think, also hurt them more and was felt the

more. So they took their Ambassador home and also I had been invited to

give a speech in Cairo, then Saudi Arabia did not want me to give my

speech there. It turned into a spat. They know very well what we think

about democracy and human rights. But we also need to have diplomatic

and political and economic ties because we believe in free trade and

open economic contact also between our countries. In terms of the sale

of arms from Sweden to Saudi Arabia, are you happy to see that continue?

We are now introducing also a much stricter regulation and laws on

trading with weapons so there will be criteria of democracy in our

legislation. This will also mean that we have new, sort of,

restrictions or new requirements for entering into trade deals alsos with

countries that might have a problem living up to the democratic

criteria. I think the world needs to - especially the European Union, has

to come back to the fact that we are a value based union. That this is

where it has always started. We believe in human rights and

democracy. I think this is the problem that today this has been

pushed aside. I think that the national interests and the economic

interests tend to take over. ?900 million worth of trade between

Saudi and Sweden, does that strike you as the right number? No, we

believe in free trade, we believe in economic contacts that are good. So

I think Swedish companies know they can invest in Saudi Arabia and I

believe it's good to have trade. So if people said a year ago here was

this strong voice criticising human rights is, cutting short the arms

deal at the time, and really making Saudi Arabia know how you felt about

it. A year later it seems to be non-lysed. They know where we stand.

-- normalised. They know very well what we think. It feels like you are

growing back and you are worried about trade. No, not at all. I was

not worried about it at the time either. We have always had a trade

with Saudi Arabia, but the military agreement was finished. That is also

a sign, and they know we will have a much stricter recommendation when it

comes to trading with countries that are not democracies. You have

famously implemented in this country a feminist foreign policy. What does

that mean to you, and how does it change how you make decisions? It

means we define it as a security issue. I think it's everywhere. It's

a welcome policy. It's not that difficult, because if you put those

lenses on, you will see the world from a women's perspective. You will

see there is still so much discrimination and violence against

women everywhere. And we have to change that.

The falling price of oil and massive government expenditure is making

Saudi redesign its entire economy before crisis sets in.

Oil accounts for 70% of government revenue.

If prices don't recover, the IMF is predicting the country

This week the Saudi Cabinet formally ratified Vision 2030 -

the Deputy Crown Prince's vision for the country's post-oil plan.

Safa has worked extensively in the region and Yemen.

I mentioned the political and economic plan they called vision

2030, is there reason to feel optimistic worried about Saudi

Arabia now? Sadly and very pessimistic about what is lacking in

vision 2030. Before it came out a lot of people were looking forward

to the vision, but the focus was purely economical with a bit of

social reform. The challenge economic elite inside the country,

the rate of unemployment, these have been going on for several years. --

the challenge economic way. The challenge over the last year has

been the war with Yemen and we do not know when that will end. There

are no rights in Saudi Arabia to criticise the war or question

whether we should even be in the war, how much money is being spent

on the war. Both the economic and political questions inside the

country and externally are quite important at the moment.

Fahad Nazer was at the Saudi Embassy in Washington

Lets start with those allegations of bullying, threats, pressure and even

blackmail against the UN after it placed Saudi on its human rights

blacklist for violations in Yemen. Your thoughts. I think it's

understandable that the Saudi Coral objected to a century being lumped

in in the same list with the Huthis, who it's well documented for many

years have used Child soldiers, targeting schools and hospitals and

other civilian targets. Allegations from the UN of pressure, bribery and

blackmail, even me mention of a fat wa against the UN. From the

perspective of Saudi Arabia, they feel the criticism that has been

levelled against them by the international community has been

unfair and one-sided. The reality was that Yemen was in fact slowly

but surely heading towards yet another Civil War. As the Saudis

have maintained, I think they make a compelling case that they went to

war in Yemen out of necessity. It was not a war of choice, they had to

make a militant organisations. The international community frankly did

not show any interest in getting involved in Yemen, so the Saudis

took this as a last resort. Reports found 32 air strikes in Yemen

violated international humanitarian law. 361 civilian kills, 127 of them

were children. I think the Saudis act knowledge that some mistakes

have been made, but the argument that the Saudis are targeting

civilian centres of population as a matter of policy is not accurate.

Keep in mind this is a ten member coalition that has the support of

both the United States and United Kingdom. The problem is, when the

world looks at what is happening in Saudi and hears stories of how the

government in the country has become more oppressive and how the

countries accused of using choosing XI lover prison, it doesn't sound

like a country trying to reform right now. -- choosing exile over

prison. The council was initially composed of 60 members, it now has

150 members including 30 women. They have also created a human rights

commission. More needs to be done, but I think they have made a

concerted and sincere effort to push these reforms forward. So how do you

explain the execution of dissident minors or the imprisonment of an

elderly judge? There is the focus on a handful of high-profile cases. It

gives a somewhat extorted view of what's going on in Saudi Arabia.

It's a country of 30 million people. It's a little disheartening to hear

some of the reporting in the West. I wouldn't put Saudi Arabia in the

same light as North Korea or Syria or Iran, to be honest. In terms of

trade, you heard Sweden considering its future in terms of arms deals

with Saudi. If Britain or America or Sweden stopped selling arms to

Saudi, what difference would it make? I don't think any of the

countries you mention have any intention of doing so. The Obama

administration has pushed through almost 100 and million dollars worth

of weapons deals over the last few years. There is also a lot of

military cooperation between Saudi Arabia and the United States and the

UK and other countries. I think these relations are long-standing

and I think mutually beneficial. You heard the point there that sometimes

the West highlights these incidents on a few high-profile cases and

there are 30 million people in the country. Do you want to respond? I

think choosing these high profile cases is symbolic, and it's a

message to the inside that if you do and continue to publicly dissent

against the government, this can happen to you as well. Regardless of

how the West covers it or not, that's irrelevant to me, it's the

message internally. This is the method you use to silence people.

There is no system where people can directly impact government policy.

Essentially no democracy? Would you like to have the last word? I think

with the council, in many ways it does not get enough credit. Over the

years, not only has its membership increased, but it has become more

representative, it represents every region of the country. I think there

are more and more avenues open for people to have a say in the

decision-making process. Now, it's time for Think Again -

our regular strand of George Bush famously

called Africa a country. Meet the blogger in Botswana who,

weirdly, thinks he might have I'm hoping that you know that

it's not just one giant Africa is 54 separate countries

and over 1 billion people. But, historically it's

not been that unified. For example, not many people

in my country of Botswana know what's happening

in Guinea or Morocco or... Last century, black intellectuals

like Ghana's independence leader Kwame Nkrumah, founded

Pan-Africanism, a desire It kind of ended up just

being a bunch of leaders high-fiving It didn't really mean much

for ordinary Africans. Now though, we are seeing

a new wave of Pan-Africanism. The Internet now has given Africans

a tool to unite in ways From the comfort of our own

countries, we can now support South African students

fighting for cheaper fees, Zimbabwe women marching

to Parliament, and we can also support Angolan journalists who just

want to do their job. We can swap ideas, and my dream

is that young Africans can begin to rescue each other and,

ultimately, to rescue ourselves. Now, how does North

Korea make its money? The country is under heavy economic

sanctions aimed at its nuclear programme, but in fact, its leader,

32-year-old Kim Jong-un, has found various still legal

ways of trading with The US Treasury is so worried

about this trade that it has just decided to increase penalties

on all banks that do any But a small group of Western

businessmen are quite happy to carry on trading with Pyongyang -

unconcerned by the ethics. We focused on building

relationships. People who've taken part

in our workshops have set up, Actually doing business

in North Korea is quite tricky. You have to make sure you're not

violating UN sanctions. If you're from a country like the US

or Australia, you have to make sure you're not violating

your own country's sanctions. So, for the vast majority of Western

business people, you look at all those things

and you think - well, not now. People are afraid of doing

business with North Korea. But, in reality, sanctions do not

hamper most of our business. I think before walking into any

country and doing business, you need to know a little

bit about the history, In North Korea, technically,

everything is state-owned. So there's no legal room

for somebody to own But under Kim Jong-un they've

experimented with having more companies run not on a state plan,

but along what we think When you read about Pyongyang

nowadays, some people are referring to Manhattan, and they

call it Pyonghattan. I've been working with the DPRK

for almost 18 years. It's still necessarily, often,

to go in and meet face-to-face One of the main challenges

with North Korea, the companies in general are not on the Internet,

and you need somebody to invite There's a lot of limitations

on telephones, so once Emails can be difficult and we don't

get responses for a long time. Investment has helped the standard

of living for people living in the major cities,

as development in any country would generally start,

but there's also some trickle down Officially, according

to the embargo, we are not allowed But, in reality, you can find

champagne very easily. So if the elite wants to buy

champagne, they can do it. They are not suffering,

but the workers are suffering because they have no jobs

and otherwise, without an embargo, Overall, for a country

like North Korea, that is relatively isolated, the more bridges you have,

the more connections and links you have to

the outside world, the better. You would go to stores maybe 10

years ago and you would have maybe one variety

of some kind of soft drink. Now you go to the department

stores and it's filled. Everyone in Pyongyang seems

to have a mobile phone. Much more cars, much more

restaurants. This is a coffee shop,

a joint venture with They are selling coffees

which I never dreamed, Joining me now is Victor Cha,

former member of the White House Originally from South Korea he was

the top adviser on North Korea to President Bush Bush. You will

remember what he thought. States like these constitute an access of

evil. From 2003 he represented the US as part of the six-party

negotiations which ultimately failed to stop Pyongyang developing nuclear

weapons. North Korea has carried out four nuclear tests. It's also

developed long-range missiles capable of hitting the US. In March

the leader Kim Jong-un reabged to further UN sanctions by publicly

organised Ordering his nuclear weapons to be ready for use at any

time. We have spoken to these private individuals, businessmen,

doing trade with North Korea. As long as the companies that we're

talking about are not front companies for the revenues from

which are used to finance proliferation or human rights'

abuses, then they're not technically in violation of sanctions or US law

for that matter. But in North Korea the problem is you never know for

sure as the piece said, everything in some way is owned by the state.

You're just never sure what's behind the front door. Sglp this week we

have seen the US Treasury name North Korea as a prime money laundering

concern and try and shut down any American bank that is part of that

chain. Is that a solution that's going to work? It's certainly a very

decisive and significant measure. Where the impact will be, will be

third countries. The Chinese, the Russians, others that do have some

business with North Korea and that do face the threat of coming under

Treasury sanctions or being excluded from the US financial system.

Historically we've looked at North Korea's missile test as a joke, they

don't have the range, they don't quite have the expertise. Do you

sense a lot of worry is for nothing? I'm much more worried today than I

was five or seven years ago. I think that's generally the view in the

expert community now, both in terms of their nuclear weapons be

programmes and the ability to put a nuclear weapon a ballistic missile.

These are things that are coming very much within North Korea's focus

and they are amassing a significant arsenal. China is key to all of

this. Should China be putting more pressure on North Korea to drop its

nuclear deterrent? Is it in that country's interest? It's certainly

China's obligation and responsibility to play a large role

in trying to convince North Korea to give up their nuclear weapons

programme. Certainly they worry about the collapse of the regime

that will send refugees across the border. The problem with China has

always been - are they willing to squeeze North Korea harder and for

longer periods of time? That has not been the case in the past. Would you

like to see that regime collapse? Certainly this is not a regime that

makes sense in the 21st Century. In the end, I think regimes like this

eventually collapse of their own weight. It's certainly not the

policy of any country to date to try to purposefully collapse North

Korea. You know, everybody kind of sits around and waits and watches

and tries to defend themself against all the negative (inaudible) of the

regime. Would you accept sanctions haven't worked? In the last few

weeks Donald Trump said he would talk to Kim Jong-un that has to be

right at this point, hasn't it? The problem is not talking with him, the

problem now is that they do not want to give up their nuclear weapons

programme. The Obama administration has tried. They have reached

agreements with Iran, with Cuba, with we are ma. The one outstanding

case is North Korea. It's not because we don't want to talk to

them. The problem is, they don't want to talk to us. They don't want

to talk to the world right now, including China. Thank you very

much. Next week - five days ahead

of the EU referendum - we ask what difference a Brexit

would make to the rest of the EU. Margot Wallstrom,

Sweden's Foreign Secretary, told me it would trigger

the break-up of the entire union. It will either mean that the UK

actually leaves and that will be the start of a two-year negotiation.

That might affect the other EU member states as well. Saying, well,

if they can have - if they can leave, maybe we should also have

referendas or maybe we should also leave. Maybe it's better that we

leave. Or, if they stay, it will - it might also lead to other

countries saying - well they negotiated. They asked and demanded

to have a special treatment, why shouldn't we? I think it will break

up the - so it will be bad either way, but of course we are hoping

that they will say. If the UK leaves, do you think it could start

to, what, trigger the break-up? I think it will definitely have such

an effect. That's the risk of it. That's a risk. Yeah, absolutely.

There will be loads who disagree with her.