12/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

Murdered by her step-brother who acted out sick fantasies

after watching online pornography - Becky Watts was just 16 when she

was killed by the man she grew up with.

I just couldn't accept it. He seemed fine, loving.

The devastation and the heartbreak is indescribable. I do

not have the vocabulary to describe the feeling.

Watch the full interview in the next few minutes.

Plus, a warning that mental health patients could be put

at risk because NHS Trusts in England are cutting costs and

We'll speak to an NHS trust before 10.

And, forget the red carpet, award ceremonies and film premiers;

George Clooney is in Edinburgh opening a cafe for homeless people.

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"I loved him like he was my own son; now I hate him".

The words of Becky Watts' father w is having to deal with the murder

of his 16-year-old daughter and the knowledge that her killer

28-year-old Nathan Matthews was found guilty of murdering her during

His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter

In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed

it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister.

He said he just wanted to scare her as he was upset with

He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up.

We're going to play you the beginning

of that disturbing police interview now; it lasts just over one minute.

Nathan, can you give us your full name?

Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this

It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts.

Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone.

HE SOBS I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan,

but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things

So perhaps if I could pull out some things from

what you have told us and ask you to expand on it, tell us a bit more.

I came up with the idea to scare her cos, like, to try and basically make

more appreciative of life, so she'd be more appreciative

for other people, she'd be like, grateful that she wasn't harmed or

Later when he appeared in court, Matthews admitted watching

pornography every day; he had multiple explicit images stored

on his computer including a video about the rape of a teenage girl.

Matthews' and his girlfriend's interest in sexual violence was not

limited to looking on the internet, it spilled over into real life even

In court, it emerged the pair swapped messages about

sexual kidnappings and saved pages on their mobile phones of girls

Becky Watt's father Darren and her step-mother, who is Nathan

Matthews mother, Anje Galsworthy have been speaking exclusively to

It seems so quiet without her here now.

If you've got a child like Becky, you're just used to noise.

And then when it is not there, you really notice it.

They were like brother and sister and they acted like it as well.

We was a little family unit, weren't we?

We were a little dysfunctional because we were all

from a different parent and partners and all that sort of thing.

We was quite a strong little unit, which is why it is such a

But together they raised Becky from the age of three.

Nathan lived nearby with his granny, but spent most weekends with them.

He was pretty good with her, to be honest.

He used to take round all the adventure playgrounds

for the smaller kids, with all the pits and stuff like that.

And ironically her first clear word, and she didn't speak until she was

It's really hot anyway because of the microwave.

13 years later, Nathan, her stepbrother,

Tell us about what it was like when she went missing?

I never believed, not in the early stages,

The anxiety of thinking that she was out there

Your imagination absolutely running riot with horrible things that could

I was determined I was going to get her back.

Becks, if you can see this, get in contact.

And if anyone out there knows summat, just tell us.

If you've got her, then put her somewhere we can find her.

It's like ripping your heart out and stamping all over it.

It was a darkness that just wouldn't leave the house, wasn't it?

I couldn't put my worst enemy through it.

Six days after Becky went missing, Darren and Angie were moved out

of their home as forensic teams moved in.

We were in a bed and breakfast out on the A38...

And Nathan and Shauna had been arrested.

And body parts had been found at the address.

We just wanted to die. Our whole family, everything we knew,

And then when they told you what had happened?

I sat on the bed rocking violently backwards and forwards.

The police weren't sure if I would do any harm to Angie. But obviously

I'd just been told my daughter had been murdered and butchered.

Her body parts found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed.

Yeah, well, your son, my daughter, aren't it?

A loving son, I would have described him as.

He has always been open and honest with me.

Nathan's girlfriend, Shauna Hoare, came into the family six years ago.

She always put yourself across as being very timid and mousy.

She always used to get her own way though.

To be honest, I didn't like first of all.

I couldn't put my finger on it, but there was something off about her.

I sort of became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit.

And even loved her like a daughter, didn't I, in the end.

Two years earlier at Nathan was best man, Becky and Shauna were

bridesmaids, a united family, as Darren and Angie got married.

They say, forever, despite this incredible strain.

My love for her is immense, it really is.

I've lost a couple of members of the family because I won't turn on her.

If this doesn't break us up, then nothing is going to.

Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom.

I have put her bedroom back together now, so it is all I would was.

It wasn't always as tidy as this, I can assure you.

But, erm, yeah, this is how she likes it.

I don't really want to leave here because...

This is the only has she ever lived in.

It has now been nine months since Becky died.

I miss everything, even the arguments.

Ten o'clock every night I expect that door to come

and her to come through it - "Oh, cook us some tea, Dad."

Every night I still listen out for it.

We'll speak to Becky's uncle and a criminal psychologist later. Poor

Becky didn't deserve this, nor did her family, those wicket people

deserve to be put to death, from one texter. All evil is developed from

childhood, nobody is born with it, we are born with a clean slate, all

behaviour is learned, from another viewer. . Nurse Pauline Cafferkey's

made a full recovery from ebola. We'll bring you the latest on her

condition. The King's Fund health think-tank

has warned patients are being put at risk through cost-cutting in NHS

Trusts. The fund says 40% of Mental Health Trusts face budget cuts so

are reducing staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing

cheaper, untested self-help services.

The Indian Prime Minister will touchdown this morning for a

three-day visit to Britain. It's the first visit of an Indian Prime

Minister in almost a decade. During his stay, Mr Mohdi will have lunch

with the Queen and discuss business links with David Cameron.

African and EU leaders will sign a deal today designed to reduce the

number of migrants making ware way to Europe, a fund.3 will be

established to improve conditions in the African countries that many

young people are leaving. Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to

a special unit at the Royal free in London last month after falling ill

with ebola for a second time. She's been transferred to a hospital in

Glasgow to continue her recovery. Fifa has released the names of the

five candidates who'll compete to replace Sepp Blatter as President of

world football's governing body. A Ctial figure and one-time race

favourite, my shell Platini did not make the list -- Michel Platini.

Apple have apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave

their High Point shopping centre in Melbourne. A staff member can be

heard saying "security are concerned that the boys would shoplift".

There's been outcry. We are worried you might steal something. Why? The

boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it simply racism. The

manager has said sorry to the boys and head teacher. One has accepted

it and said, we are chilling, no need to take it further.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh

and a change of tone from Russia regarding the doping allegations.

Yes, for the first time since the World Anti-Doping Agency made its

damning report into alleged widespread cheats and corruption in

cheating, Vladimir Putin has spoken and ordered a full investigation own

the claims saying the battle must be open against those accused of taking

part in a systematic doping programme. It is, as was say, a

change of tune, he's asked his Sports Minister to pay the issue the

greatest possible attention after he pointed the finger at the UK

anti-doping programme calling it even worse, so there's work to be

done there. The same is true of English rugby as well. Stuart

Lancaster stepped down as Head Coach following the poor World Cup showing

and now the search is on for a replacement, just about everyone's

having their say on who they think that person should be and whether

they should be English or not. It seems likely England will have a

first foreign Head Coach. In the sport in this country, the first

English Head Coach. We'll take a look at that and we have an June

date on Fifa and an amazing story in basketball too. All that after ten.

NHS trusts in England are being accused of putting mental health

patients at risk because of measures to cut costs.

Our health correspondent Nick Triggle can tell us more.

The report today from whom, and what does it say?

It is from the Kings fund, and the first thing to say is how common

mental health problems. One in four of us will suffer and mental health

condition, from depression and anxiety to more serious conditions

like schizophrenia. That is what the report said it is so important is

the NHS gets care right. But it seems it is not, the report says

there is widespread evidence of poor care and they are linking this to

cuts in services. More than four in ten trusts have seen their income

drop in the past year and have responded by moving to more unproven

treatments, cheaper ones including merging specialist teams into

generic ones in the community and increasingly relying on volunteers

and support staff instead of doctors and nurses. Meanwhile the number of

hospital beds has dropped. The report acknowledges this is part of

a wider NHS drive to move NHS care out of hospitals and into the

community but they say the mental health it is happening to quickly

and on two grand a scale. What do the Government say?

The Government says it is investing in mental health, the overall budget

increased last year to ?11.7 billion, about a 10th of the overall

NHS spend but it seems not all of it is getting through to the mental

health trusts. There could be a number of reasons for that, the

private and voluntary sector also get involved in providing services

in mental health, but it may also be the case that, with money so tight

in the mental health service, bosses are using mental health funds to

plug gaps elsewhere. Now the Government has said they want to

stop that, they want to see parity of esteem between mental and

physical health, which essentially means treating them the same, and to

ensure that happens they are introducing waiting time targets so

that people who need access to talking therapies should be seen

within 18 weeks, and for those experiencing their first episode of

psychosis they should get help within two weeks, which mirrors what

has been in place for years in terms of hip and the replacements and

cancer care. OK, thank you very much.

"Kate" says the NHS dealt with her dad badly on a couple

of occasions when he was self-harming and feeling suicidal.

"Kate" isn't her real name as she's asked to remain anonymous.

She's been speaking to our health correspondent Sophie Hutchinson.

The reality was, they just couldn't find in a bed.

They were doing everything they could but they had to just keep

So we had to, as far as possible, look

On the Friday we were told, "If you need help out of hours,

I know we shouldn't be living you at 5pm this Friday because of the

That night he was very difficult and then it reached a stage where

And when the ambulance came out we were taken to a cafe,

which was meant to be a place where people could, out of hours, go to

But we are talking about a man who was acutely suicidal,

in an ambulance, to the extent that the ambulance staff didn't feel it

was safe or appropriate to take him into the cafe while there wasn't

So my husband and my mum and my dad were outside this cafe at

11 o'clock at night in this ambulance, waiting to see if

somebody could come out and see dad.

Then after 50 minutes there was still nobody to talk to him,

and so the ambulance crew made the decision, "Right, we're going back

Which is not helpful for anybody involved.

It's very difficult for A staff to manage somebody so acutely ill.

And all the services knew that was not where my dad needed to be,

Let's talk to Kerry, who's experienced psychosis and says her

And Claire Murdoch, who's the chief executive of the Central

and North West London NHS Trust, and also chairs the Cavendish Square

Group which represents London's ten NHS mental health trusts.

Welcome to both of you. Kerry, you went to A to try to get yourself

admit it. What happened? At a few years ago after some difficult

things in my life I became really seriously ill, I was frightened,

very miserable, very confused and hearing voices. I knew that I was

just getting worse and worse, and there came a point when I didn't

feel I could keep myself faked so I ended up going to A and saying, I

can't keep myself safe, please can I be in hospital? Bessette, you can't,

there are no beds, and I got home. Two days later, I tried to set

myself on fire. Luckily it didn't work, but I was sectioned, said

hospital against my will, but a game I had to wait about nine hours in

A and there were no NHS beds in the north-east of England at the

time at all, so I was sent to a private hospital some distance away

from where I lived, and that was frightening and confusing because my

friends and family couldn't come and visit me as easily. Even since that

have happened, there have been more bed closures. Since that time there

have been 32 bed closures in my local area. Claire Murdoch, this

story is an illustration of some of the things that this independent

report is suggesting today. Do you recognise a pitch it is painting?

First of all I would like to say I really recognise -- really welcomed

the report because we all recognise the immense pressure services are

under. When that pressure manifests so that decisions over whether to

add amid someone or not when there is a bed available are compromised,

then things are very, very wrong. We should not be waiting until we have

two sections one, detain them against their will, when a few days

earlier they were happy to come and ask for help. A whole different

experience could have followed. There is a lot in the report that I

do recognise, and I guess the key thing I would like to say is, whilst

it is not all about money, some of our poorer funded services deliver

brilliant care, it is this patchwork of service delivery, the postcode

lottery, the variation. Isn't that decision down to the local NHS

Trust, in effect? What the Government is saying, tell me if you

buy what they say, we are distributing the money to the NHS

trusts, if they are not pushing that into the right areas, how can that

be the Government's bowled? Two things, one, yes, there is some

extra money available this year the Mental Health Services targeted

against certain services, but that is against a backdrop of year the

Mental Health Services targeted against certain services, but that

is against a backdrop to let against a real pressure against core

services over recent years. Second, the money does not come directly to

trust, it goes through several hands before it reaches trusts. Some

commissioners, the hand it goes through, have passed on the money in

total. Many have passed some of the money on. Some commissioners have

said they have got such pressures elsewhere, that big old ones will be

acute hospitals, A departments, the general culprits that we always

come second best to, some areas have said some of that money has to be

siphoned off to support bigger pressures elsewhere. We would say in

the Cavendish Square Group it is unacceptable. I have heard through

my collaborative networks nationally that there are some areas, some

trusts, that have not seen any of that money. What impact will that

have on people like Kerry? If I can come back to that point, I have been

doing a lot of campaigning about bed cuts and so forth in the last few

years. I have talked to everyone from the Deputy Prime Minister, and

no one seems to take responsibility for saying, this is how the money

should be spent. The Government announces these grand initiatives

but then the money goes through allsorts of acronyms, like Monitor,

the CCG 's... The Clinical Commissioning Groups. Their argument

is that local commissioning groups are much better placed to make

decisions about where the money should be spent locally? Except that

local commissioning groups are largely made of GPs, and mental

health groups have found they do not feel they have the expertise to do

that commissioning. The other thing I would say is that obviously

services are best locally commissioned with local providers,

service users, the public, and, in a sense, everybody would support that,

but there has to be some national standards and principles which no

service is free to deviate from, so whether that is access to bed in a

crisis, waiting times, access to psychosis services if you are young

and it is your first episode, so on, so Bob, there has to be some

principles and bottom lines. That is why the Government would say they

have introduced waiting targets, those are the principles and the

bottom lines. I agree with what you are saying about the waiting times

targets being a good idea, although there is not enough money to

implement what they need because services have been cut so

desperately badly in the last few years. Since 2012 we have lost about

40% of mental health beds. Waiting times, what sort of services do you

get when you get there, that will be a big problem as well. I'm

incredibly lucky because I had really good support with early

intervention and psychosis service, and it turned my life around. Now I

am in employment, getting married, things are at awful lot better. But

over about half the country those sorts of services have been cut to

ribbons. It doesn't even make economic sense, because they save

?15 for every ?1 spent, so it shouldn't be a decision that, do we

have these or not? Of course there should be excellent early

intervention services in every area. It saves lives and it changes

lives. This report today, is it a warning to politicians or local

commissioning groups, or individual NHS trusts? I think it is a warning

to individual NHS trusts to take responsibility for the changes they

are making, to make sure they really understand how they are affecting

people's lives. Stories like Kerry's motivate is incredibly and

we do believe our services change lives and save money. I think one I

regret about this report is that it really only largely points at

trusts, and of course actually there has been a 40% cut in most local

authority spending in recent years, and we heard earlier this week there

will be even greater cuts to come. Some of those services are a vital

component of keeping people well and helping us into been better in

relapse. We all have contracts that are year-to-year, I signed my

contract for this year in October when the year began in April,

because we could not agree what the funding would be. We need longer

term contracts, transparency of decision-making, consensus about the

impact there will be. I would like to say one other thing, many of the

new wings being implement it, recovery focused approach, it means

looking at the person's assets, trying to equip service users

together with them to better understand the power play of their

illness and how to look after themselves better, how to articulate

what works for them. That has an evidence base and it does, in all

other aspects of health care, the more we understand our health, the

more, if we have an illness, we understand what our choices are, the

better the outcome is. But what you cannot do is replace evidence -based

treatment with more self-care or peer support. It is both, it is a

rich mix of support needed to keep people well, get them back to help,

get them enjoying life, make them productive members of society. One

last point, the average acute hospital, if it invested more in

mental health for people who have complex physical conditions, could

save, we believe, up to ?25 million per year. So it is a saving as well

as the humane thing to do. Central Government is cutting the money and

then the local groups, like the CCGs... The Government said that

health service funding has been ring fenced and they have provided a

little bit more for Mental Health Services, but they have also asked

the NHS to make efficiency savings. That is not true, they stopped doing

the survey looking at how much money was being spent on Mental Health

Services a year or two ago, so now we actually don't know any more what

is being spent. Central Government are putting the money, local

commissioning groups and so on are having to make the cuts but they are

not responsible for having not enough money to spend in the first

place. No-one is taking responsibility, and meanwhile my

friends keep dying because they need services that are not there. These

are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people and they should not be

happening. Thank you very much both before coming on the programme.

The Minister responsible for mental health, Alistair Burt told us:

Still to come, one of the relatives of one of the victims of the Alps

plane crash says they still need questions answered.

We can talk now to Courtney Vicar, Becky Watts best friend. Thank you

so much for talking to us at this really, really difficult time, we

appreciate your time this morning. I wonder if you can tell us and the

audience a little bit about Becky, what was she like?

She was really into her music and into her fashion. She really liked

clothes, bought new clothes all the time and she really liked doing her

make-up and stuff and her hair was her most important thing really, her

hair. She also loved her dog as well. What kind of a friend was she

to you? Oh, she was my, obviously my best friend, she would be there for

me when I needed it. If I was sad I knew I could call her and she'd come

to mine or I would go to hers if I was feeling sad and the same went

for her. I think you last saw her a few days before her death and spoke

to her the night before? It was in the day before. I spoke to her on

the phone and she was really happy. I was texting her the night before,

like, and she was just happy and just her normal self-. Self-. Did

she talk to you about Nathan Matthews, what did she say to you

about her step brother? That she was kind of scared of him and that he

made some comments about killing her in the past, like quite a lot and I

think the last of the comments was last year, like at the end of last

year, so it was quite recent in respect of February, it was quite

recent then. How did you react when she revealed that to you? My opinion

of him kind of changed. At first I thought he was just a bit weird but

I didn't think he was a bit like evil or anything, but when she told

me he was saying these things, it made me scared for her. It just

didn't sit right with me what she was saying and how she felt about

it. She's not usually scared of much. To say she was scared of him,

I was like, whoa, it must be a serious fear.

Was she afraid to talk to other people about how she felt about him?

I think that she felt like people either wouldn't believe her or that

they would go overboard a bit and get angry with him and she really

didn't want to cause trouble. I think that is why she didn't say

anything to anybody. Did you ant to say anything or tell

others? It was really her choice, I didn't want to say something because

I didn't want her to get annoyed at me if I said something and she was

like "why did you say that? ! " It was for her to say, it was one of

those things where it's not my place to say it. Were you able to console

her or support her? Well, I assumed, and we both agreed

that because he's got a kid, it probably isn't anything serious. I

never thought in a million years that would happen and I thought

because he had a kid that he might have valued like his time with a kid

a bit more than to do something like this.

Courtney, thank you so much for talking to us this morning, I real

hi appreciate your time, thank you. That's OK. Courtney Bicker, Becky

Watts' best friends. Some comments from you: Rob says, absolutely

heart-breaking account earlier on your programme from the parents of

Becky watts. Paul says, heartbreaking, I don't understand

the world and Lawrence says, God rest Becky and help ease the pain of

the parents. There's been a bit of grumbling about the Chancellor

George Osborne's spending cuts from his own MPs. Little did he expect

the Prime Minister to be one of them Norman Smith is with

us now. Not usual for a Prime Minister to

write to his county council to protest at plans for roughly around

?50 million worth of cuts. The cuts will mean, it's thought, maybe cuts

to bus services, possibly cuts to day care centres for the eldererly,

possibly cuts to library services. So Mr Cameron's penned a letter to

his council to say, hang on a second, what are you doing, let's

take a lack at some of what he says. He says, I was disappointed at the

long list of suggestions to make significant cuts to frontline

services. Then he goes on, sort of urging them not to go down this

road, saying: I hope the county will move cautiously in setting out its

budget plans. And, as a sort of final, I don't

know whether it's meant to be helpful or put the squeeze a bit on

the council, he says; I would be happy to initiate further dialogue

with asth advisers in the Number 10 policy unit. That prompted a reply

from the council leader, which I've got here, a six-page reply. He's

gone through all Mr Cameron's complaints point-by-point trying to

rebut them but starts with a zinger when he says, to the council leader,

to D Cameron, "I along with many councillors worked hard to assist

you in achieving a Conservative majority. " That is his opening

line. He says "I cannot accept your description of a drop in funding of

?72 million as a slight fall" he signs off "I hope that clarifies our

position". So I take it he's not hugely amused by the PM's

intervention. When asked about relations between the two last week

he was saying, no, we get on timeth fine. Have alike at this. It's like

all relationships. Sometimes off bits of tension, it's always going

to be difficult at some stage, yesterday I was at Number 10 and we

had a civil conversation. There's a good relationship there, but like

all relationships, sometimes a bit of tension.

Not surprisingly, Vic, as you can imagine, MPs are all saying, hang on

a second, this is hypocrisy, it's David Cameron's Government who're

imposing this cut, it's a bit rich for him to be complaining. That's

been the line being pushed by the Labour Party. This was one of the

spokesman this morning. Council leaders are finding health cuts. It

seems extraordinary the Prime Minister didn't appreciate the scale

of the cuts that hit his own council. When you move into the

Metropolitan areas, the City and northern councils, because of the

way the funding formula works, they are happy to find even deeper cuts.

This has gone in another direction all together. Labour maybe are

trying to milk it. They have write tonne the Cabinet Secretary to

complain about Mr Cameron's behaviour and how they say it's a

breach of rules around the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Their

argument being that by inviting the council boss into Number 10 to have

a chat with the Number Ten policy union, Mr Cameron is blurring the

lines between his Prime Ministerial powers and his job as a local MP. I

wonder if he'll have to extend that invitation to all council leaders

then to discuss how cuts may be rolled out? I think the short answer

is no, but what I think about this is, it's kind of a double edged

sword to have the PM in your constituency because at one level

it's great. If you are lobbying for something and want it done, you can

get the PM on your side, that is a huge boost to your prospects of

convincing the Treasury to stump up the cash. However, if the PM is not

happy about what you are doing, it's a major pain in thederier because

you have the Downing Street machine saying, just think twice about that,

so I guess it's a double edged sword having Mr Cameron as one of your

constituents. Thank you very much.

He's one of the most famous men on the planet, but this morning George

Clooney will swap the film set for a cafe for homeless people in Glasgow.

Here is Carol. I haven't seen you since your Strictly journey was

brought to a close. How was it? Brilliant. Such good fun. To start

with I found it hard then grew to love it. I think I went as far as I

could but do it, it's amazing! Was there anything you learnt about

yourself that you didn't know before you went through all of that? Yes, I

am brave than I thought I was. Really, that's fantastic! Took me so

out of my comfort zone, every single Saturday I was dying of nerves but

you had to go for it, push yourself in there and get on with it, there

was no choice. Week one I did get stage fright, I was overwhelmed by

it and if I could have run away from that dance floor, I would have been

in the next taxi, but you had to stay and go through with it. You

could have done a runner, that would have been a story! Was it a bird,

was it a plane, no it was corkwood. How is it looking weather-wise?

It's a bit lively today for some. We have got Storm Abigail approaching.

Tonight is when we'll feel the effects of it in north and west

Scotland where we could have gusts of up to 90mph. They could lead to

travel disrun Australian and power cuts. Abigail is a deep area of low

pressure. Look at the isobars, man! Even I know that's windy. I am so

impressed but you are absolutely right.

In England an Wales, it's going to be windy tonight and also first

thing tomorrow. This little front here is going to cross to bring some

rain again tonight and tomorrow morning. But the main thrust of the

action is going to be across the north and west of Scotland where we

have the tightest squeeze. That is where we'll have the gusts later

this evening and tonight over 80 or 90mph. A lot to get in, so I'll

carry on but it's great to see you. So good to have you back on our

programme, never mind Strictly! See you later.

En Today we have a quiet start to the day. There is some fog around

which will lift. We have got some spots of rain coming in across from

southern counties in across the south-west and Wales. Through the

morning, the rain will gather across Northern Ireland, some will be heavy

and the wind will strengthen. You can see the arrows are on, looking

at gusts in the west of about 50-55mph. Push across central and

eastern parts, the wind will be starting to pick up but it will be

largely dry for much of the day. Looking at variable amounts of

cloud, bright and sunny spells as well but patchy rain coming in

across the south coast. We'll see some of that getting into Wales. We

saw the wind arrows across the Irish Sea, close to the Irish Sea or areas

adjacent will mean gusts of up to 55mph. The rain advances in Northern

Ireland. Showers and winds inland of 15mph, maybe a little more. The wind

will be the main feature, particularly through the evening and

tonight. The main areas to have the strong gusts are Northern Isles and

the Outer Hebrides. The Met Office has issued amber weather warnings

which means be prepared, it could lead to some disruption. We'll see

some snow on the mountain tops, lying at about 400 metres at lower

levels. Do remember, as we head on through

to tomorrow, this colder air pushes across the whole of the UK, so

tomorrow you'll notice a real difference in the feel of the

weather. It will feel much colder. Tomorrow too still a windy start to

the day. The winds only very slowly abating. There'll be a lot of

showers around, some will be heavy and thundery with some hail thrown

in there for good measure and temperature-wise, we are looking at

values between about six and 12. When you add on the elements, it

will feel much colder, one in Aberdeen is how it will feel. More

like eight in London. So a cold feel. That's not unusual

for this stage in November but it's a real change compared to what we

have been used to. From Friday into Saturday, we have got the remnants

of Hurricane Kate coming our way. Over the weekend, we could see

exceptional amounts of rainfall, particular aacross north-west

England and north-west Wales and I'll keep you posted about that

tomorrow. Hello, it's Thursday,

it's just after 10am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to

the programme if you've just joined Murdered by her step-brother who

acted out sick fantasies after watching online pornography - Becky

Watts was just 16 when she was killed by the man she grew up with.

One of her best friends tells us she It didn't sit right with me what she

said about how she felt about him. She was scared and she's not usually

scared of much. To say she was scared of him, I was like, it must

be a serious fear. Also coming up: We'll be discussing

the best ways to cope with the menopause as a new

report says women and doctors have "lost confidence"

in hormone replacement therapy. George Clooney is in Edinburgh

opening a cafe for homeless people and we'll be live there later on.

Standards of care for patients with mental illness in England could be

at risk from cost-cutting, according to a report from

The King's Fund is warning that 40% of mental health trusts are

facing budget cuts, so are reducing staff and hospital beds.

It also claims that many are introducing cheaper,

No-one is really taking responsibility, and meanwhile my

friends keep dying because they need services that are not there, and

these are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people, and they

should not be happening. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi

will touch down this morning It's the first visit of an Indian

Prime Minister in almost a decade. Later he will make an address in

parliament and there will be a fly-past from the red arrows. But he

is a controversial figure, accused by opponents of having an

authoritarian agenda. African and EU leaders will sign

a deal today that's designed to reduce the number of migrants making

their way to Europe. In the past hour, they have approved

a fund of ?1.3 billion to try to stop young people from leaving.

A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has

been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation.

Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the

Royal Free in London last month after falling

She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue

Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will

compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president

Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did

not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included.

Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave

Footage of the incident in Melbourne

sparked a social media outcry.

A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that

We're worried about your present in our store, we are worried you might

steal something. Why would we steal something?! End of discussion...

The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'.

The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher.

One of the boys involved has accepted the apology.

Let's catch up with all the sport now -

Russian President Vladimir Putin says the country must carry out

its own inquiry into the World Anti-Doping Agency's allegations of

Speaking for the first time since the publication of Wada's

strong condemnation, Vladimir Putin ordered co-operation with the

TRANSLATION: It is necessary to hold our own internal investigation and

provide maximum open, and I would like to stress this, open

professional cooperation with international anti-doping agencies.

I agree this is not only a Russian problem but if our foreign

colleagues have questions about them, they have to be answered, too,

and that has to be done in open, professional and conscientious

cooperation with our colleagues. After Stuart Lancaster stepped

down as the head coach of England's Rugby Union side, all thoughts have

immediately been directed towards his successor and the person who'll

ultimately be responsible for breathing new life into a team

which did nothing but disappoint Our rugby reporter Chris

Jones joins me now. A difficult time for England and

Stuart Lancaster but who are the candidates to replace him?

Two things that are no object are a nationality and money. The RFU and

chief executive Ian Ritchie have made it clear they will scour the

world for a global big hitter, someone steeped in international

rugby experience. It is unlikely it will be an Englishman because the

directors of rugby at the premiership clubs do not have that

international experience, so we are looking at names like Jake White,

who won the 2007 World Cup in South Africa. He would rip the RFU's arm

off if they offered the job. Eddie Jones did wonders with Japan at the

recent World Cup, he has huge experience going back to his with

Australia. Michael Jack has transformed Australian rugby over

the last year, but could he be prised away from that job and back

to the Northern is the? Wayne Smith has huge backing but has confirmed

to the BBC he wants to take a sabbatical, could the RFU changed

his mind or bring him in further down the line? Joe Schmidt, Warren

Gatland, a huge number of candidates because the RFU have said no money

and nationality is an object for this, which means on one hand

everyone is a candidate, and on the other hand no-one is because the

best, big hitting names are in jobs at the moment.

Sir Clive Woodward, the World Cup would encourage, thinks the RFU and

all of rugby needs a structural change. Is this about more than the

coach? It is a good point, he is pointing

the finger at the RFU chief executive Ian. He was about who

appointed Ian Lancaster in the first place, he gave him increased power

was over the English game, a new contract grew to 2019 and beyond,

and now Ritchie is the man to lead the recruitment process all over

again, so apply the Woodward saying that why should he get another

chance? He says there should be a bigger between the Chief Executive

and head coach, a performance director, someone for the head coach

to lean on and confide in. We should have a caveat saying that Sir Clive

Woodward feels he is the man for the job since he is using his Daily Mail

column as a way of putting in his job application. It does not mean

they are not valid points, but the RFU would argue that the head coach

needs to have total authority and should not have the answer to

anyone. It will be fascinating to see how things go over the next few

weeks. OK, thanks for joining us.

Now to a truly inspiring story - Serbian basketball player

Natasha Kovacevic has returned to the professional game two years

after losing her leg in a car accident.

Kovacevic was seen as one of her country's most promising

players when the accident happened in September 2013.

Now, with the aid of prosthesis, she is believed to be the first

disabled European basketball player to play in a professional team.

She scored five points for her new side Red Star Belgrade last night.

That is all the sport for now, I will have a recap of the headlines

at about 10:30am. Hello, thank you

for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme

if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News

Channel until 11am this morning. Your contributions to this programme

and your expertise really is key. We will talk about hormone

replacement therapy later, so if you have experienced that, maybe do did

not take it because of the associated cancer risks, which is

why it is in the news again today, then let me know.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you

are via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria,

and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app

by going to 'add topics' and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.

We've been talking this morning about the murder of Becky Watts

and what motivated her stepbrother and his girlfriend to kill

Becky's best friend has told us that the teenager was scared of

Nathan Matthews, but she didn't want to tell anyone about her fears.

Yesterday, Matthews was found guilty of murdering Becky Watts during

His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter

In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed

it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister.

He said he just wanted to scare her, as he was upset with how she was

He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up.

We're going to play you the beginning of that disturbing

Nathan, can you give us your full name?

Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this

It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts.

Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone.

I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan,

but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things

Later, when he appeared in court, it came out that he had been watching

pornography. Becky Watts' father and Nathan Bodman, perhaps been speaking

to the BBC. We could not take it in, we could

not believe it. Body parts had been found at the address. We just wanted

to die. Our whole family, everything we knew had been ripped away from

us. And when they told you what had happened? I was sitting on the bed,

rocking violently backwards and forwards, screaming that I wanted to

kill him. The police were not sure if I would do any harm to Angie, but

they don't know how strong our relationship is. I had just been

told that might daughter had been murdered, butchered. Her body parts

found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed. I was just devastated.

Anje just went into shock. You could see it. I just couldn't accept it.

Your son, my daughter, wasn't it? Tell us about Nathan? A loving son,

I would have described him as. He has never lie to me. Always been

open and honest with me. I love to Mikey was my own son. Don't now, I

hate him. -- I loved him like he was my own son. Nathan's girlfriend

Shauna Hoare came to the family six years ago. She always put us up

across as timid and Mel C. She always used to get her own way,

though. I didn't like, personally. Couldn't put my finger on it but

there was something off about her, never really believed in Herbert

became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit, even loved her

like a daughter, didn't I, in the end? Two years earlier Nathan was

best man, Becky and Sean were bridesmaids, a united family as

Darren and Angie got married. They say the rubble, despite this

incredible strain. My love for her is immense, it really is,

unwavering. I have lost a couple of them as a family because I won't

turn on her. I her, never. If this doesn't break is up, nothing will --

I won't desert her, never. Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom. I

have put her bedroom back of it was. It was never usually as tidy as

this, I assure you, but this is how she likes it. I don't really want to

leave here, because Becky lived here. This is the only how she ever

lived in. It has now been nine months since Becky died. I just miss

her, I was she was still here. I live everything, even the

arguments. Yes. 10pm every night I expect the door to go, how to come

through, cook us some tea, dad! But it never does. Every night I still

look out, I listen out for her. It's ridiculous, she has been gone months

now. And yet I still listen out for it.

Let's talk about Doctor John Ed Barlow, a criminologist at

Birmingham University, and in a moment we will speak to Liz

Longhurst whose daughter, Jane, was murdered by a man obsessed with

violent pornography. He was jailed for life in 2004. Doctor Bala, how

would you describe the relationship as you know it between Shauna Hoare

and Nathan Matthews? When we have come offending partnerships or

relationships like Sean and Nathan, it is often the case that people

draw upon notions such as evil or what is known as a map and a shared

by two, but the relationship between Shauna and Nathan was more

complicated. Shauna suggested during the testimony and trial that she

experienced violence and control at the hands of make them throughout

the relationship and talked extensively about this during the

trial. Whilst this shouldn't be used as a technique to diminish her

responsibility or to remove her sense of choice, to gain a more

nuanced understanding of her co-offending relationship and her

personal relationship with Nathan, we need to look at the whole

relationship and how that may have influenced her decision to offend.

She may have claimed those things during the trial but the police said

yesterday she was calculate it, she was cold-blooded?

Undoubtedly in these cases it's very difficult to say what is and what

isn't the truth. Within this type of relationship, particularly if

characterised by violence and control throughout the whole

relationship, that needs to be the focus, rather than explicitly

focussing on her role in the offending, it's also what led to

that. In these co-offending relationships where there is

violence or control, that should be considered as a potential

influencing factor. You will know that Becky watts' father suggested

that Hoares and Matthews could have been the next Rose and Fred West

west, what do you think about that? There is a tendency within these

co-offending offences to draw upon coexisting examples such as Rose and

Fred West west or Myra Hindley and on Brady. These went on for a time

though, and I would argue that these were not

though, and I would argue that these were not criminal master minds It

was more a case of power and control, particularly on the part of

Nathan. OK, I'll come back to you in a moment, I want to talk to Liz

Longhurst whose daughter was murdered by a man obsessed with

online pornography. I wonder if you believe your daughter's death was

preventible? Well, I think it probably was knowing what we know

now but I think then I didn't. Graham Coutts was such a... He was

extremely mazible. Fortunately I'm glad to say I never met him or his

partner. His partner was expecting their twins so it's horrible,

complete hi horrible. And you discovered later that he was

obsessed with violent pornography, he had been viewing it online. Do

you think that is relevant? Absolutely it is. At that time, one

of Reading's MPs, Martin Salter, he took the lead on this and used me as

a kind of figurehead - I don't think I had very much to do with the

formation of the law - but I absolutely agreed with it that it

should go ahead. Of course, it did, but the trouble is, the law's not

that been used, that particular law, very much. A law that bans the

ownership of extreme pornography? Indeed. But hasn't been used? It has

but hardly at all. I think I can only think of probably a handful of

occasions when it's been used. Do you think that search engines should

take responsibility for trying to block that kind of material? Well, I

certainly think they should but I don't think they do. I don't know

what you think, Victoria. Well, they don't at the moment and always push

back on that one and there's the argument about the global scale of

it, how could you possibly kind of police that or enforce it. I think

the thing is, we are all very sociable creatures aren't we, and so

therefore we tend to sort of be friends with people who think as we

do and I think that they should just take far more responsibility than

they do. And Dr Barlow, as a criminologist,

can I ask you about your views, the evidence that you've looked at, of

the link between viewing violent pornography and then actually

carrying that out in reality? Yes, with these kind of things,

particularly thinking about violent pornography, whilst this would have

been an influencing factor, it's very, very difficult to make a

causing effect of relationships. In the case of Nathan, I believe it was

much more about him wanting power and control, both within the context

of offending but also within other relationships in his life as well. I

think that perhaps came hand in hand with the sexual fantasy that would

have come from the violent pornography. Do you mean power and

control over Becky watts in particular or anybody whom he

happened to alight upon? I think particularly with Becky. He talked

in detail during the trial but also before in the text message exchanges

we saw about his hate for Becky and that he obviously investigate

envious and jealous of Becky, particularly with her relationship

with other members of the family. It was power over Becky but also about

other relationships generally within her family as well. In terms of your

experience as a criminologist, where does this case fit, if I can put it

like that? Actually, this kind of case is very rare. This is what

criminologists called siblicide, where the perpetrator is the step or

full brother or sister of the victim. This is very rare in

reality, particularly on this level, this horrific and heinous crime that

was committed within the context of Becky watts. So actually, even

though Becky was in many ways the typical victim as a young female,

the kind of crime that Nathan committed and the murder, the extent

of the murder he committed, was much more common of an intimate partner

relationship, rather than a sibling relationship. Thank you both very

much for coming on the programme. Very nice to meet you.

Nice to have met you and thank you. Let's talk about the migrant crisis.

Still to come before 11; African and EU leaders have signed a deal

designed to reduce the number of migrants making their way to Europe.

?1.3 billion will be used to improve conditions in the African countries

Our correspondent Gavin Lee is in Malta where the leaders are meeting.

What have they been discussing this morning and what have they decided?

Huge meeting, Victoria, 60 world leaders, 25 from Europe, 35 from

Africa, the European leaders here at the Mediterranean conference centre

in this scenic resort in the capital here. They are lined up one by one

to sign a piece of paper which is effectively the centrepiece of this

summit, a fund for African Nations of money, significant amount from

the European Commission, ?1.8 billion euros. Jean-Claude Juncker

asked in the past few days European nations to pledge what they could in

return for African countries trying to stem the flow of their citizens

facing the journey of land and sea, risking their lives to get to

Europe. We have had today an announcement from 25 European

countries, including Britain 3 million euros offered. It's reached

half the target, some decided, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia, not to get

involved at all, they were distrustful of where the money may

go, but it's interesting from the point of view of the money being

raised, there is a belief that Africa can actually do something

about it collectively. I should give you a sense of what's being asked in

return from African Nations. This is the second day of talks and there is

a big emphasis from African countries, forgot just to talk hard

cash but also to increase legal migration routes. I was talking to

Senegalese governments in the past two days and they have said what

about trading deals, education, chances for students, nurses,

trained researchers. So that will be part of negotiations and, think

about it as well, it's pretty specific, we are talking about the

African part of this problem with migration for Europe, the idea of a

much bigger flow from Turkey into Greece, that is for another date I'm

told by the European Council. It's specific small steps at a time. Do

you have a bit more detail, Gavin, on what this massive amount of money

will be spent on? I mean it's got to be jobs in the end, hasn't it, if

most people in parts of Africa are moving across the continent towards

the continent of Europe for work? Yes. Let me give you an example of

Britain's contribution. They have put 3 million euros to the trust

fund, just over ?2 billion, a separate donation of ?25 million of

taxpayers' money for Ethiopia. They have had a huge surge of migration

people leaving in the country from just under 400,000 to just under a

million this year to try to increase developments there. Money to the

whole region. So Mali and certainly around the West of Africa as well,

having humanitarian projects to help immediate aid relief. For Somalia

too there is a big jobs prospect. David Cameron says it will create

9,000 jobs so it's sporadic siphoned off areas. You have got to the core

of this though, there are a lot of leaders. This summit have pledged a

minimum amount and they have matched what other leaders have done, they

won't go further until they can see proof of the money being spent and

we see the return rate of the asylum seekers as economic migrants,

something like 40% of those immigrants have been returned, no

more than that, that rate's got to increase before other nations decide

to pledge any more money. Thank you very much very much Gavin.

Coming up, we are going to see George Clooney prepare to make

sandwiches at a cafe in Scotland. Breaking news to bring you from our

health editor, hue PIP who says the number of patients stuck in hospital

beds in England because their discharge was delayed was at a

record high in September -- hue PIP. -- Hugh Pym.

Pressure on social services because of falling budgets has been blamed

by many for the increase in the number of patients delayed from

being discharged. Now, the Indian Prime Minister, that

Rennes diploma Modi has arrived in Britain for a three-day visit

expected to secure trade deals worth billions -- Narendra mow di.

Christian Fraser, what is he going to do? Out comes the red carpet

again, we have had Xi Jin ping and the fastest growing economy's Prime

Minister, so strategicically important to British Trade

Industry. There is a feeling when you read the newspapers that there

is unrequited love there, that's the headline in the Financial Times, the

idea that Britain is down on bended knee with the flowers for India, yet

India in return's been this aloof lover. Narendra mow di's taken 18

months to come here, he's been to 27 countries before Britain. The

Government can point to the obstacle of the general election but there is

a feeling that there is untapped potential in this relationship. The

red carpet being rolled out yet again. Not a full state visit but

you will recognise there are many similarities to the XI Jin Ping

visit. He'll lunch with the Queen tomorrow, they'll go via the statute

of Gandhi on the way to a speech to a joint session of the House and,

according to Keith Vaz today, it's the first time an Indian Prime

Minister's addressed the Parliament. So a landmark event in that sense.

Tomorrow, I suppose the most important point of the visit for Mr

Mow di, that is this huge political rally that they are going to have at

Wembley. Around 70,000 Indians bust in from all around the country to

mark the final day of Divali, the Indian Festival of Light -- Modi.

Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Still to come

before 11, claims that women and doctors have lost confidence in HRT

as a possible treatment for the men pause because of the associated

cancer risk. We'll talk about that, I have some messages from you as

well who've been taking HRT. Also, the father of one of the British

victims of the Germanwings plane crash caused by Andreas Lubitz

deliberately crashed the plane into the Alps, the families still need

answers. African and EU leaders have approved

and signed off on a ?1.3 billion fund to reduce the migrants heading

to Europe as a result of a special migration summit being held in Malta

which continues today. Despite the fund, the President of the EU

commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said he wants to see member states

making further contributions. Indian's Prime Minister, Narendra

mow dibegins a three-day visit today, the first visit of an Indian

PM in almost a decade. He'll make an address in Parliament later and

there'll be a fly-past by the Red Arrows. He's accused by some of

having an authoritarian agenda. Mental care patients could be at

risk of cost cutting according to an influential think-tank. The King's

Fund warns 40% of Health Trusts are facing budget cuts so are reducing

staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing cheaper,

untested self-help services. No-one's really taking

responsibility and meanwhile my friends keep dying because they need

services that aren't there, and these are avoidable, preventible

deaths of young people and this should not be happening.

A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has

been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation.

Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the

Royal Free in London last month after falling

She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue

Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will

compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president

Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did

not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included.

Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave

Footage of the incident in Melbourne sparked a social media outcry.

A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that

We're worried about your presence in our store, we're worried you

The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'.

The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher.

One of the boys involved has accepted the apology.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.

Hello again, the main headlines in sport this morning.

The Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered

a full investigation into claims of 'state-sponsored doping.'

It's after a World Anti-Doping Agency report recommended the

country be banned from athletics.

After Stuart Lancaster parted ways with England yesterday the search is

on for a new head coach, but will the RFU have to look

Lewis Hamilton will take part in this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix

He's also revealed he had a road accident in Monaco earlier

And Chelsea's women face a difficult task to reach the quarterfinals

They lost the home leg of their last 16 tie against Wolfsburg 2-1.

They will need a great result in the the return leg next week.

That's all the sport for this morning, I'll have all the latest

I'm back tomorrow Victoria, see you then.

Let's talk about the Nursie contracted a bowler working in

Sierra Leone. She fell seriously ill again last month and has now been

released from an isolation ward at the Royal Free Hospital, having been

flown back to Glasgow to continue her recovery. In October, Pauline

Cafferkey's condition was described as critical. Let's talk to Jane

Draper, our health correspondent. Great news? A true, having Ebola not

once but twice, being critically ill from it not once but twice, there

were serious fears for her life and survival when she was said to be

critically ill at the Royal free last month. When she was readmitted

over a month ago it caused shock around the world, what did it mean

for other Ebola survivors? We knew that the virus could hang on in

bombardment of the body, but to make someone this ill again caused

serious concerns, so it is great news that she is on the mend and

back in Glasgow. Can I ask how they treat the virus?

This time she was treated with an experimental anti-viral drug, a

relatively new drug involving a drip once a day that she was given an

infusion with, and it seemed to do the trick. But it is such a new area

of science, there have been four cases now at the Royal Free, twice

in bold thing Pauline, and each time all four patients, each four

incidents used different treatments. It appears to have worked but we

don't know if that was the drugs they were given all the body getting

better, there is a lot we don't know about this virus.

And I suppose we don't know if this is the final recovery or if she

could regress? They don't know that either, resume of the?

They are as confident as they can be, otherwise they would not have

released from the specialist unit and the plastic tent in which she

was being treated, so they are answered and there is no risk to the

public. The biggest risk was always to Pauline herself rather than

anyone else. But, yes, there are still uncertain questions more

generally about the science of this virus, we are still learning.

Thank you, Jane. When co-pilot Andreas Lubitz

deliberately took control of his plane and plunged it

in a mountainside in the French Alps earlier this year,

he killed all 150 people on board. The family and friends of the

victims have spent the last eight months trying to come to terms with

what happened but they're also still searching for answers about how this

tragedy could have happened. The view so many visitors have

adored. Now the scene

of Europe's latest tragedy. This is where flight number 9525

crashed into France's Southern Alps this morning,

with 150 people on board. A passenger aircraft reduced to

debris the size of small cars. All around are the jagged edges

and rugged peaks of the mountains, which are accessible, of course,

only from the air. That's making the recovery

and salvage operation after So many faces, so many lives,

and a single question: Why did Andreas Lubitz, entrusted to

fly these people safely, appear to We found medical records indicating

an existing illness and treatment. Torn-up sick notes,

including one from the day That supports the theory that

the deceased hid his illness What do we know about

Andreas Lubitz? The 27-year-old qualified

as a pilot in 2013. When he took off on Tuesday he had

630 hours of flight experience. There is speculation

about a six-month break he took But as far

as Lufthansa are concerned, Perhaps one of today's most

distressing reports comes from the German tabloid newspaper, Bild,

which claims it has got hold of a leaked copy of the cockpit voice

recording made on flight 9525. On it, it's claimed you can hear

the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, who's accused of deliberately

having brought down the plane, chatting with his senior college,

the pilot, before they take off. The pilot complains he's not had

a chance to use the toilet. Once they are in the air,

the co-pilot urges him The pilot does so, and then,

according to Bild, can be heard knocking on the door,

increasingly desperately, Passengers can be heard screaming

as the pilot shouts, It is yet another chilling detail

to come out of this disaster. New evidence that the co-pilot

practised his fatal dive that killed It happened on a flight from Germany

to Spain earlier the same day. On board that flight were

three British victims. One of them was 28-year-old

Paul Bramley. Let's talk to Paul's father, Phil,

in his first national TV interview. Thank you very much for coming on

the programme. Tell us about your son. He liked his football, very

affectionate, lovely lad. He used to play football where we live, here's

a Manchester United fan. It is difficult to speak about him because

it is still very raw. He travelled, spoke many languages? Yes, I was

thinking about that this morning, four languages, I don't know where

he got it from! It must have been his mother! He had an Estonian

girlfriend, so that helped him. He lived with us in Portugal, had a

place in Majorca, so he spoke Spanish. Pretty good with his

languages. He loved to travel. I think that's what led him, he was

training to be a hotel manager, in hospitality. Everything was in front

of them, at fantastic life. I think the plan was that you were going to

build a hotel for him because you are in the trade, and he would run

it for you? He had worked with us, he was a great lad to work with, you

never had to tell him off, always on time. He was great to work with, and

that is where we saw his future. He liked people, he wanted to be in

hotel management. I build hotels and renovate them, so that was as far as

we had got. In terms of the company, Lufthansa, who ran

Germanwings, what answers do you need from them still? The big one,

for us, is the mental health, we want transparency and the truth of

what I understand of the facts from the French prosecutors will stop a

few weeks before the flight, he was still seeing seven doctors. This is

the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. He had seen several doctors from 2009

onwards, I still cannot understand how somebody is allowed to be in a

cockpit on his own with those sorts of issues that they knew about, so

we want transparency on that side of it.

You will know that German state prosecutor said that they found

evidence that Lubitz had hidden this unspecified medical condition. If

someone hide that, I wonder if you can legislate for that? We thought

about it, him hiding stuff, but we are talking about a five-year

period. The health checks that should have been done, that were

done, how did he sit through those? How did he continue to be able... He

had been suspended, how can you get back on and fly again? It is a long

period of time, 51 different doctors. What about his friends,

relatives, who else is going through this? Right up to a couple of weeks

before, where are the safeguards, what are they doing to allow

somebody back into the cockpit? You have got a duty of care. It is

ridiculous, there has got to be some checks. Do you feel you have been

treated decently by the company? No, it is almost run by solicitors, the

stuff going on now. They are arrogant, inhumane. How they are

having to deal with things, the information coming back, obviously

they have got their defences up. We want justice for all of the

families, all of the people. We want the information, we don't want it to

happen again. There are other issues, I want a proper memorial at

the crash site. There is one already, we turned up this year for

Paul's birthday to the crash site and these seven big concrete bunkers

have turned up, full of the body parts. I don't like that. There are

quite a lot of things we would like to see happening, and bit more

dignified than concrete bunkers and a small plaque. I would like to see

them mentioned by name. I know you travelled up that mountain on

Paul's birthday. Why was that important to you? I felt it was

obviously where it happened, where he left his body, so I wanted to...

Are you OK? Yes. I wanted to go up there and sit and just be a bit

closer, I suppose. Is it difficult, that one. -- a bit difficult. It is

about four hours, you are not supposed to go up there because they

are still flying in a doubt, it has been six months, they are still

sanitising the area, helicopters around all the time, so I got up

early, managed to get up there in four hours, as high as I could to

the rock face. It gives you a bit of comfort, it is a lovely place, very

pretty place. You have got to remember there are only about 150

French people living in that area as well and it has affected them

enormously. Something should be done a bit more properly for them as

well, it would help and be fantastic for us. Dignified. Something should

be done. Whose responsibility is it, do you think, to make the decision

about an appropriate and dignified memorial? I think the families, we

are all the same, we all feel the same, we want something that

remembers our children a bit more than what there is. It has been left

up to the French, I think, and I think they feel affronted by a tall

as well. It is disgraceful, what has happened. They have had to look

after it all and do it all. I think if that would be good. You used the

word inhumane to the company have treated, that is how you feel you

have been treated by the company? Yes, it is almost like cut-price

airlines, I don't think it is compatible, we are all to blame in

some respects for this sort of culture of cheap flights. It is not

compatible with safety, in my view, anyway. If it -- that is a bigger

story. In terms of the way they have treated you? They took a step back,

left it to the solicitors, accountants, everything else, arms

length. It weeks to get a response that Paul was on the flight. Nobody

has ever wrong and apologised -- ever called and apologised. I

suppose they are frightened of the repercussions and everything else,

but the humane side, if you were the CEO you would get straight on the

phone and wring every family, every person. But you are probably right

that they perhaps think if they apologise it is at a meeting some

sort of liability at this point? We are beyond that, the liability is in

place, they have a duty of care and they have failed. It is almost a

given where the fault lies. Lubitz, the state he was in and everything

else. An airline is there to prevent those sorts of things happening. You

cannot put somebody in charge of a plane who has got that history.

I've got a statement from Germanwings, you will have heard

this before. We we share in the sadness, shock and incomprehension

of the family and friends". It's short? Yes, so ring us up, you know,

speak to us directly. Carol would appreciate so much more. We have a

life sentence. That paragraph is shameful really. It's corporate

talk, it's, you know, these are real people and real families and, you

know, I would imagine they'll think that provided their share price

isn't affected and all the other things, that this will go away in no

time and we don't want this to be Just one of those that's happened.

There was the Russian one, the Malaysian one, this one could have

been prevented, this was different, something could have been done more

than what was done. I know it's been really difficult

for you to talk about this, but you have done it amazingly well, thank

you very much, we really appreciate your time, thank you. Thank you.

Before the end of the programme, we are going to talk about HRT and the

associated cancer risks and, a report out today which suggests that

HRT can do a lot of good for women going through the menopause. More on

that in the next few minutes. George Clooney has just opened a cafe for

homeless people in Edinburgh. Our correspondent Kevin is there. This

is a tiny back street. It's a busy street here in Edinburgh but it's a

pedestrianised area. There was quite a crowd here, gathered from early on

this morning, and when George Clooney arrived, he got out,

unexpectedly at the beginning of the crowd, and worked his way all across

them, speaking to people, shaking hands. A lot of people taking

selfies, a lot of people just enjoying the moment of seeing this

Hollywood film star in this small back street in Edinburgh. He was

here, as you say, to see this social project where people come in, they

buy themselves a coffee then they can leave money to buy a coffee for

homeless or disadvantaged people. But just before he went in, I was

lucky enough to get a quick word with him.

What do you think of what they do there? It's pretty amazing, I'm

going to see it, haven't seen it up close yet. Why are you supporting

this charity? It's a great idea. The idea that we can participate in

people's problems is important. You must be used to a crowd like that in

Scotland, we are not, what do you think of it? It's not bad because

they are standing out in the cold. They are going to Sir John Stevens

you a sandwich. What kind of a sandwich do you like? I gotta see

what they got. They tell me stew is on the menu, what do you think of

that? They got what? Stew. I'm good with stew. How do you feel about

being in Scotland... How do you feel about this company making a social

difference whereas Starbucks don't pay any tax. I don't know about

Starbucks but I know about this company which is pretty great. Are

you going to buy a loyalty card? Yes, I am. How much are you going to

put on it? I don't know yet, I'll have a look. Don't push. You hand's

freezing. There he was, Josh George Clooney,

he's gone now but a few people who came to see him are still here. Why

did you come here? I love him. He's so handsome. I was working and

somebody came and said, George Clooney is in castle Street and I

said, oh, my God, I ran here, came here, took a picture of him, tried

to make a selfie but couldn't. You were not quite chasing after car but

you managed to speak to him? Yes, and touch him. Absolutely worth the

wait, two hours, well worth it. The person that he really came to see

was the cofounder of the cafe, so how did this all come about? We knew

George was a committed humanitarian, he has a charity in Sudan so we

reached out to him and said we'd fund-raise for his charity and asked

him to visit our Social Bite cafe, a social enterprise where we feed

through meals that our customers prepay for for the local homeless

community and we employ a quarter of the workforce from the homeless

community so very excited that he came. What did he eat or drink? It

was unbelievable, we have had the global media today so for our small

Scottish cafes, the profile is amazing, raises the concept of

social enterprise, homelessness. He was incredibly charming, met all the

staff, did selfies, we gave the opportunity for a couple of guys to

tell their story a bit. We let him sample some of the food and I think

he's donated ?1,000 by all accounts to prepay meals for homeless people

and he handed over a ?5 note as well. He worked the crowd when he

was here as well, a true pro? An absolute pro, never quite seen

anything like it, incredibly charismatic, stopped, shook hands,

got photos with almost anyone that he could so unbelievable. Quite a

day for Edinburgh, thank you very much, Josh. Quite a day for

Edinburgh, it's not every day that an international film star, one of

the most famous that there is comes to a little back street like this.

It's believed HRT use has dropped dramatically since a couple of

studies linked it to an increased risk of cancer a few years ago. A

report says specialist services should be in place for women under

the age of 40 who begin premature menopause. Melanie Davies is a

consultant gainologist at London University Hospital and has worked

on the guidelines and three women, Nia, Fisher Subarta. What is if

menopause? When a woman's periods stop, stop producing the female

hormone which is oestrogen. The similar Poms? About eight out of ten

get symptoms, a quarter quite severely. It's typically hot

flushes, night sweats, often muscle and joint pain, mood changes,

particularly low mood and frequently sexual difficulties, sometimes those

are physical to do with vaginal dryness and sometimes psychological

with loss of interest. So HRT can help, what are the risks associated

with taking it though in terms of cancer specifically? I should say

the guideline tries to look at all approaches, not just at HRT. That is

the most effective treatment for the symptoms though. The concern has

been mainly over cancer risk and in particular the risk of breast

cancer. We have reexamined all of the evidence and we are really

focussing on women who are around the age of 50 going to their doctor

with symptoms. For them, over the next five to ten years, there is a

risk of breast cancer, it's about 22 in 1,000, to give you some numbers,

and that would increase to about five per 1000. So HRT would be

responsible for? An extra five cases of breast cancer. Up from the 22

expected in a thousand women over five years? Between five and ten.

Let me ask all three of you, some of you have taken HRT, some not, what

do you think of the risks and how it affects your choices? I refused to

take it. Because of the cancer risk? Precisely because of the cancer

risk. Even though it's so small? Indeed but I already have existed

illnesses so I'm putting in a far more amount of chemicals inside my

body than necessary or required, so I turn to alternative they aries

using herbal medicine. That was far more beneficial. Nia, what about

you? I was diagnosed with menopause when I was 35 so the pros I thought

far outweighed the cons as far as oestrogen that my body wasn't

producing naturally any more. I think it's great that the guidelines

that it mentions women under the age of 40 because there is a definite

lack of support up until now. Hopefully that will change.

Anxietyian, yours was a surgical menopause after a hysterectomy? Yes,

total hysterectomy including both ovaries. Your decision about it was

what? Initially it was that I chose not to take it and that was

essentially due to a lack of information. My information was

based on the way that some HRT is produced which is conjugated equine

oestrogen andethically I could not take that. What was that thing

about... Conjugated equine oestrogen. Is that horse urine, is

that true that it contains that? That is the original HRT and the

most widely used. The modern ones are not animal derivatives and they

are more close to the human body. The GPs are saying effectively what?

Have an individual discussion with the women that come to seek your

advice. GPs would do that anyway without guidelines... That's not

true, sorry, that's just not true. OK, go on, tell me! It's up to each

and every individual woman now to make sure they have access to the

right information. In this day and age of the Internet and everything

else, there are still so many women who do not have the information they

require and the GP is the last person possibly that you would get

any information from. All you have to do is ask? Part of the

difficulty, Victoria, is that many women feel very, very close by the

time they make that appointment and go for that appointment. When

they're turned away or given antidepressants or told, do you know

actually it's just a phase of life, you'll have to get on with it, no.

You want to come in Nia? When I was diagnosed, I was in a state of shock

and lost all my confidence. Even the thought of picking up the phone and

making a GP appointment was almost too overwhelming and I did but once

I was in the room, you need somebody to give you the information and to

take the reins because sometimes you are just not in a place where you

feel you can do that. You were in a state of shock because A you were

young and B it's going to affect your fertility? I'm infertile, yes.

What help did you get then? I didn't get any help as far as the emotional

side of it at all, no offer of counselling or pointed in any

direction at all. It was all about HRT and the physical side of it. But

that's only a fraction of what you are actually going through. That is

really interesting, you would agree it's a fraction of what is going on

up here as well? I initially chose not to take the HRT because my

information wasn't complete. Eventually, I got to such a low

place in my life, I wasn't functioning at all, and I went back,

actually I was taken back to my GP by my wonderful husband and I sat

down and when we sat down she said to me, you don't have to have that

equine oestrogen, you can have bio-identical oestrogen, but I

didn't know that. That hadn't been, at no point mentioned. After my

hysterectomy, I'd managed to come out of the hospital within two days,

that was my choice, I wanted to be out, I left with absolutely no

information. All right. I have learnt a lot,

thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the programme all of you.

On the programme tomorrow, we'll look at the Russian doping scandal

which has rocked athletics. Thank you very much for your company today

and messages. Back tomorrow at 9. 15, have a good day.

Join us on BBC One for a truly epic night of entertainment,

featuring your favourite stars and shows.