12/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire

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The father of a British man killed in the Germanwings plane crash says the suicidal co-pilot should have been grounded. Plus guidelines for treating the symptoms of the menopause.

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Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,


Murdered by her step-brother who acted out sick fantasies


after watching online pornography - Becky Watts was just 16 when she


was killed by the man she grew up with.


I just couldn't accept it. He seemed fine, loving.


The devastation and the heartbreak is indescribable. I do


not have the vocabulary to describe the feeling.


Watch the full interview in the next few minutes.


Plus, a warning that mental health patients could be put


at risk because NHS Trusts in England are cutting costs and


We'll speak to an NHS trust before 10.


And, forget the red carpet, award ceremonies and film premiers;


George Clooney is in Edinburgh opening a cafe for homeless people.


Hello and welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News


Throughout the morning we'll keep you across the latest breaking


A little later we'll hear claims that women and doctors have lost


confidence in hormone replacement therapy or HRT as a possible


treatment for the menopause because of the associated cancer risks.


If you're on HRT or don't take it because


Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.


And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you


are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria


and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,


by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire.


"I loved him like he was my own son; now I hate him".


The words of Becky Watts' father w is having to deal with the murder


of his 16-year-old daughter and the knowledge that her killer


28-year-old Nathan Matthews was found guilty of murdering her during


His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter


In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed


it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister.


He said he just wanted to scare her as he was upset with


He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up.


We're going to play you the beginning


of that disturbing police interview now; it lasts just over one minute.


Nathan, can you give us your full name?


Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this


It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts.


Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone.


HE SOBS I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan,


but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things


So perhaps if I could pull out some things from


what you have told us and ask you to expand on it, tell us a bit more.


I came up with the idea to scare her cos, like, to try and basically make


more appreciative of life, so she'd be more appreciative


for other people, she'd be like, grateful that she wasn't harmed or


Later when he appeared in court, Matthews admitted watching


pornography every day; he had multiple explicit images stored


on his computer including a video about the rape of a teenage girl.


Matthews' and his girlfriend's interest in sexual violence was not


limited to looking on the internet, it spilled over into real life even


In court, it emerged the pair swapped messages about


sexual kidnappings and saved pages on their mobile phones of girls


Becky Watt's father Darren and her step-mother, who is Nathan


Matthews mother, Anje Galsworthy have been speaking exclusively to


It seems so quiet without her here now.


If you've got a child like Becky, you're just used to noise.


And then when it is not there, you really notice it.


They were like brother and sister and they acted like it as well.


We was a little family unit, weren't we?


We were a little dysfunctional because we were all


from a different parent and partners and all that sort of thing.


We was quite a strong little unit, which is why it is such a


But together they raised Becky from the age of three.


Nathan lived nearby with his granny, but spent most weekends with them.


He was pretty good with her, to be honest.


He used to take round all the adventure playgrounds


for the smaller kids, with all the pits and stuff like that.


And ironically her first clear word, and she didn't speak until she was


It's really hot anyway because of the microwave.


13 years later, Nathan, her stepbrother,


Tell us about what it was like when she went missing?


I never believed, not in the early stages,


The anxiety of thinking that she was out there


Your imagination absolutely running riot with horrible things that could


I was determined I was going to get her back.


Becks, if you can see this, get in contact.


And if anyone out there knows summat, just tell us.


If you've got her, then put her somewhere we can find her.


It's like ripping your heart out and stamping all over it.


It was a darkness that just wouldn't leave the house, wasn't it?


I couldn't put my worst enemy through it.


Six days after Becky went missing, Darren and Angie were moved out


of their home as forensic teams moved in.


We were in a bed and breakfast out on the A38...


And Nathan and Shauna had been arrested.


And body parts had been found at the address.


We just wanted to die. Our whole family, everything we knew,


And then when they told you what had happened?


I sat on the bed rocking violently backwards and forwards.


The police weren't sure if I would do any harm to Angie. But obviously


I'd just been told my daughter had been murdered and butchered.


Her body parts found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed.


Yeah, well, your son, my daughter, aren't it?


A loving son, I would have described him as.


He has always been open and honest with me.


Nathan's girlfriend, Shauna Hoare, came into the family six years ago.


She always put yourself across as being very timid and mousy.


She always used to get her own way though.


To be honest, I didn't like first of all.


I couldn't put my finger on it, but there was something off about her.


I sort of became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit.


And even loved her like a daughter, didn't I, in the end.


Two years earlier at Nathan was best man, Becky and Shauna were


bridesmaids, a united family, as Darren and Angie got married.


They say, forever, despite this incredible strain.


My love for her is immense, it really is.


I've lost a couple of members of the family because I won't turn on her.


If this doesn't break us up, then nothing is going to.


Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom.


I have put her bedroom back together now, so it is all I would was.


It wasn't always as tidy as this, I can assure you.


But, erm, yeah, this is how she likes it.


I don't really want to leave here because...


This is the only has she ever lived in.


It has now been nine months since Becky died.


I miss everything, even the arguments.


Ten o'clock every night I expect that door to come


and her to come through it - "Oh, cook us some tea, Dad."


Every night I still listen out for it.


We'll speak to Becky's uncle and a criminal psychologist later. Poor


Becky didn't deserve this, nor did her family, those wicket people


deserve to be put to death, from one texter. All evil is developed from


childhood, nobody is born with it, we are born with a clean slate, all


behaviour is learned, from another viewer. . Nurse Pauline Cafferkey's


made a full recovery from ebola. We'll bring you the latest on her


condition. The King's Fund health think-tank


has warned patients are being put at risk through cost-cutting in NHS


Trusts. The fund says 40% of Mental Health Trusts face budget cuts so


are reducing staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing


cheaper, untested self-help services.


The Indian Prime Minister will touchdown this morning for a


three-day visit to Britain. It's the first visit of an Indian Prime


Minister in almost a decade. During his stay, Mr Mohdi will have lunch


with the Queen and discuss business links with David Cameron.


African and EU leaders will sign a deal today designed to reduce the


number of migrants making ware way to Europe, a fund.3 will be


established to improve conditions in the African countries that many


young people are leaving. Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to


a special unit at the Royal free in London last month after falling ill


with ebola for a second time. She's been transferred to a hospital in


Glasgow to continue her recovery. Fifa has released the names of the


five candidates who'll compete to replace Sepp Blatter as President of


world football's governing body. A Ctial figure and one-time race


favourite, my shell Platini did not make the list -- Michel Platini.


Apple have apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave


their High Point shopping centre in Melbourne. A staff member can be


heard saying "security are concerned that the boys would shoplift".


There's been outcry. We are worried you might steal something. Why? The


boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it simply racism. The


manager has said sorry to the boys and head teacher. One has accepted


it and said, we are chilling, no need to take it further.


Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh


and a change of tone from Russia regarding the doping allegations.


Yes, for the first time since the World Anti-Doping Agency made its


damning report into alleged widespread cheats and corruption in


cheating, Vladimir Putin has spoken and ordered a full investigation own


the claims saying the battle must be open against those accused of taking


part in a systematic doping programme. It is, as was say, a


change of tune, he's asked his Sports Minister to pay the issue the


greatest possible attention after he pointed the finger at the UK


anti-doping programme calling it even worse, so there's work to be


done there. The same is true of English rugby as well. Stuart


Lancaster stepped down as Head Coach following the poor World Cup showing


and now the search is on for a replacement, just about everyone's


having their say on who they think that person should be and whether


they should be English or not. It seems likely England will have a


first foreign Head Coach. In the sport in this country, the first


English Head Coach. We'll take a look at that and we have an June


date on Fifa and an amazing story in basketball too. All that after ten.


NHS trusts in England are being accused of putting mental health


patients at risk because of measures to cut costs.


Our health correspondent Nick Triggle can tell us more.


The report today from whom, and what does it say?


It is from the Kings fund, and the first thing to say is how common


mental health problems. One in four of us will suffer and mental health


condition, from depression and anxiety to more serious conditions


like schizophrenia. That is what the report said it is so important is


the NHS gets care right. But it seems it is not, the report says


there is widespread evidence of poor care and they are linking this to


cuts in services. More than four in ten trusts have seen their income


drop in the past year and have responded by moving to more unproven


treatments, cheaper ones including merging specialist teams into


generic ones in the community and increasingly relying on volunteers


and support staff instead of doctors and nurses. Meanwhile the number of


hospital beds has dropped. The report acknowledges this is part of


a wider NHS drive to move NHS care out of hospitals and into the


community but they say the mental health it is happening to quickly


and on two grand a scale. What do the Government say?


The Government says it is investing in mental health, the overall budget


increased last year to ?11.7 billion, about a 10th of the overall


NHS spend but it seems not all of it is getting through to the mental


health trusts. There could be a number of reasons for that, the


private and voluntary sector also get involved in providing services


in mental health, but it may also be the case that, with money so tight


in the mental health service, bosses are using mental health funds to


plug gaps elsewhere. Now the Government has said they want to


stop that, they want to see parity of esteem between mental and


physical health, which essentially means treating them the same, and to


ensure that happens they are introducing waiting time targets so


that people who need access to talking therapies should be seen


within 18 weeks, and for those experiencing their first episode of


psychosis they should get help within two weeks, which mirrors what


has been in place for years in terms of hip and the replacements and


cancer care. OK, thank you very much.


"Kate" says the NHS dealt with her dad badly on a couple


of occasions when he was self-harming and feeling suicidal.


"Kate" isn't her real name as she's asked to remain anonymous.


She's been speaking to our health correspondent Sophie Hutchinson.


The reality was, they just couldn't find in a bed.


They were doing everything they could but they had to just keep


So we had to, as far as possible, look


On the Friday we were told, "If you need help out of hours,


I know we shouldn't be living you at 5pm this Friday because of the


That night he was very difficult and then it reached a stage where


And when the ambulance came out we were taken to a cafe,


which was meant to be a place where people could, out of hours, go to


But we are talking about a man who was acutely suicidal,


in an ambulance, to the extent that the ambulance staff didn't feel it


was safe or appropriate to take him into the cafe while there wasn't


So my husband and my mum and my dad were outside this cafe at


11 o'clock at night in this ambulance, waiting to see if


somebody could come out and see dad.


Then after 50 minutes there was still nobody to talk to him,


and so the ambulance crew made the decision, "Right, we're going back


Which is not helpful for anybody involved.


It's very difficult for A staff to manage somebody so acutely ill.


And all the services knew that was not where my dad needed to be,


Let's talk to Kerry, who's experienced psychosis and says her


And Claire Murdoch, who's the chief executive of the Central


and North West London NHS Trust, and also chairs the Cavendish Square


Group which represents London's ten NHS mental health trusts.


Welcome to both of you. Kerry, you went to A to try to get yourself


admit it. What happened? At a few years ago after some difficult


things in my life I became really seriously ill, I was frightened,


very miserable, very confused and hearing voices. I knew that I was


just getting worse and worse, and there came a point when I didn't


feel I could keep myself faked so I ended up going to A and saying, I


can't keep myself safe, please can I be in hospital? Bessette, you can't,


there are no beds, and I got home. Two days later, I tried to set


myself on fire. Luckily it didn't work, but I was sectioned, said


hospital against my will, but a game I had to wait about nine hours in


A and there were no NHS beds in the north-east of England at the


time at all, so I was sent to a private hospital some distance away


from where I lived, and that was frightening and confusing because my


friends and family couldn't come and visit me as easily. Even since that


have happened, there have been more bed closures. Since that time there


have been 32 bed closures in my local area. Claire Murdoch, this


story is an illustration of some of the things that this independent


report is suggesting today. Do you recognise a pitch it is painting?


First of all I would like to say I really recognise -- really welcomed


the report because we all recognise the immense pressure services are


under. When that pressure manifests so that decisions over whether to


add amid someone or not when there is a bed available are compromised,


then things are very, very wrong. We should not be waiting until we have


two sections one, detain them against their will, when a few days


earlier they were happy to come and ask for help. A whole different


experience could have followed. There is a lot in the report that I


do recognise, and I guess the key thing I would like to say is, whilst


it is not all about money, some of our poorer funded services deliver


brilliant care, it is this patchwork of service delivery, the postcode


lottery, the variation. Isn't that decision down to the local NHS


Trust, in effect? What the Government is saying, tell me if you


buy what they say, we are distributing the money to the NHS


trusts, if they are not pushing that into the right areas, how can that


be the Government's bowled? Two things, one, yes, there is some


extra money available this year the Mental Health Services targeted


against certain services, but that is against a backdrop of year the


Mental Health Services targeted against certain services, but that


is against a backdrop to let against a real pressure against core


services over recent years. Second, the money does not come directly to


trust, it goes through several hands before it reaches trusts. Some


commissioners, the hand it goes through, have passed on the money in


total. Many have passed some of the money on. Some commissioners have


said they have got such pressures elsewhere, that big old ones will be


acute hospitals, A departments, the general culprits that we always


come second best to, some areas have said some of that money has to be


siphoned off to support bigger pressures elsewhere. We would say in


the Cavendish Square Group it is unacceptable. I have heard through


my collaborative networks nationally that there are some areas, some


trusts, that have not seen any of that money. What impact will that


have on people like Kerry? If I can come back to that point, I have been


doing a lot of campaigning about bed cuts and so forth in the last few


years. I have talked to everyone from the Deputy Prime Minister, and


no one seems to take responsibility for saying, this is how the money


should be spent. The Government announces these grand initiatives


but then the money goes through allsorts of acronyms, like Monitor,


the CCG 's... The Clinical Commissioning Groups. Their argument


is that local commissioning groups are much better placed to make


decisions about where the money should be spent locally? Except that


local commissioning groups are largely made of GPs, and mental


health groups have found they do not feel they have the expertise to do


that commissioning. The other thing I would say is that obviously


services are best locally commissioned with local providers,


service users, the public, and, in a sense, everybody would support that,


but there has to be some national standards and principles which no


service is free to deviate from, so whether that is access to bed in a


crisis, waiting times, access to psychosis services if you are young


and it is your first episode, so on, so Bob, there has to be some


principles and bottom lines. That is why the Government would say they


have introduced waiting targets, those are the principles and the


bottom lines. I agree with what you are saying about the waiting times


targets being a good idea, although there is not enough money to


implement what they need because services have been cut so


desperately badly in the last few years. Since 2012 we have lost about


40% of mental health beds. Waiting times, what sort of services do you


get when you get there, that will be a big problem as well. I'm


incredibly lucky because I had really good support with early


intervention and psychosis service, and it turned my life around. Now I


am in employment, getting married, things are at awful lot better. But


over about half the country those sorts of services have been cut to


ribbons. It doesn't even make economic sense, because they save


?15 for every ?1 spent, so it shouldn't be a decision that, do we


have these or not? Of course there should be excellent early


intervention services in every area. It saves lives and it changes


lives. This report today, is it a warning to politicians or local


commissioning groups, or individual NHS trusts? I think it is a warning


to individual NHS trusts to take responsibility for the changes they


are making, to make sure they really understand how they are affecting


people's lives. Stories like Kerry's motivate is incredibly and


we do believe our services change lives and save money. I think one I


regret about this report is that it really only largely points at


trusts, and of course actually there has been a 40% cut in most local


authority spending in recent years, and we heard earlier this week there


will be even greater cuts to come. Some of those services are a vital


component of keeping people well and helping us into been better in


relapse. We all have contracts that are year-to-year, I signed my


contract for this year in October when the year began in April,


because we could not agree what the funding would be. We need longer


term contracts, transparency of decision-making, consensus about the


impact there will be. I would like to say one other thing, many of the


new wings being implement it, recovery focused approach, it means


looking at the person's assets, trying to equip service users


together with them to better understand the power play of their


illness and how to look after themselves better, how to articulate


what works for them. That has an evidence base and it does, in all


other aspects of health care, the more we understand our health, the


more, if we have an illness, we understand what our choices are, the


better the outcome is. But what you cannot do is replace evidence -based


treatment with more self-care or peer support. It is both, it is a


rich mix of support needed to keep people well, get them back to help,


get them enjoying life, make them productive members of society. One


last point, the average acute hospital, if it invested more in


mental health for people who have complex physical conditions, could


save, we believe, up to ?25 million per year. So it is a saving as well


as the humane thing to do. Central Government is cutting the money and


then the local groups, like the CCGs... The Government said that


health service funding has been ring fenced and they have provided a


little bit more for Mental Health Services, but they have also asked


the NHS to make efficiency savings. That is not true, they stopped doing


the survey looking at how much money was being spent on Mental Health


Services a year or two ago, so now we actually don't know any more what


is being spent. Central Government are putting the money, local


commissioning groups and so on are having to make the cuts but they are


not responsible for having not enough money to spend in the first


place. No-one is taking responsibility, and meanwhile my


friends keep dying because they need services that are not there. These


are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people and they should not be


happening. Thank you very much both before coming on the programme.


The Minister responsible for mental health, Alistair Burt told us:


Still to come, one of the relatives of one of the victims of the Alps


plane crash says they still need questions answered.


We can talk now to Courtney Vicar, Becky Watts best friend. Thank you


so much for talking to us at this really, really difficult time, we


appreciate your time this morning. I wonder if you can tell us and the


audience a little bit about Becky, what was she like?


She was really into her music and into her fashion. She really liked


clothes, bought new clothes all the time and she really liked doing her


make-up and stuff and her hair was her most important thing really, her


hair. She also loved her dog as well. What kind of a friend was she


to you? Oh, she was my, obviously my best friend, she would be there for


me when I needed it. If I was sad I knew I could call her and she'd come


to mine or I would go to hers if I was feeling sad and the same went


for her. I think you last saw her a few days before her death and spoke


to her the night before? It was in the day before. I spoke to her on


the phone and she was really happy. I was texting her the night before,


like, and she was just happy and just her normal self-. Self-. Did


she talk to you about Nathan Matthews, what did she say to you


about her step brother? That she was kind of scared of him and that he


made some comments about killing her in the past, like quite a lot and I


think the last of the comments was last year, like at the end of last


year, so it was quite recent in respect of February, it was quite


recent then. How did you react when she revealed that to you? My opinion


of him kind of changed. At first I thought he was just a bit weird but


I didn't think he was a bit like evil or anything, but when she told


me he was saying these things, it made me scared for her. It just


didn't sit right with me what she was saying and how she felt about


it. She's not usually scared of much. To say she was scared of him,


I was like, whoa, it must be a serious fear.


Was she afraid to talk to other people about how she felt about him?


I think that she felt like people either wouldn't believe her or that


they would go overboard a bit and get angry with him and she really


didn't want to cause trouble. I think that is why she didn't say


anything to anybody. Did you ant to say anything or tell


others? It was really her choice, I didn't want to say something because


I didn't want her to get annoyed at me if I said something and she was


like "why did you say that? ! " It was for her to say, it was one of


those things where it's not my place to say it. Were you able to console


her or support her? Well, I assumed, and we both agreed


that because he's got a kid, it probably isn't anything serious. I


never thought in a million years that would happen and I thought


because he had a kid that he might have valued like his time with a kid


a bit more than to do something like this.


Courtney, thank you so much for talking to us this morning, I real


hi appreciate your time, thank you. That's OK. Courtney Bicker, Becky


Watts' best friends. Some comments from you: Rob says, absolutely


heart-breaking account earlier on your programme from the parents of


Becky watts. Paul says, heartbreaking, I don't understand


the world and Lawrence says, God rest Becky and help ease the pain of


the parents. There's been a bit of grumbling about the Chancellor


George Osborne's spending cuts from his own MPs. Little did he expect


the Prime Minister to be one of them Norman Smith is with


us now. Not usual for a Prime Minister to


write to his county council to protest at plans for roughly around


?50 million worth of cuts. The cuts will mean, it's thought, maybe cuts


to bus services, possibly cuts to day care centres for the eldererly,


possibly cuts to library services. So Mr Cameron's penned a letter to


his council to say, hang on a second, what are you doing, let's


take a lack at some of what he says. He says, I was disappointed at the


long list of suggestions to make significant cuts to frontline


services. Then he goes on, sort of urging them not to go down this


road, saying: I hope the county will move cautiously in setting out its


budget plans. And, as a sort of final, I don't


know whether it's meant to be helpful or put the squeeze a bit on


the council, he says; I would be happy to initiate further dialogue


with asth advisers in the Number 10 policy unit. That prompted a reply


from the council leader, which I've got here, a six-page reply. He's


gone through all Mr Cameron's complaints point-by-point trying to


rebut them but starts with a zinger when he says, to the council leader,


to D Cameron, "I along with many councillors worked hard to assist


you in achieving a Conservative majority. " That is his opening


line. He says "I cannot accept your description of a drop in funding of


?72 million as a slight fall" he signs off "I hope that clarifies our


position". So I take it he's not hugely amused by the PM's


intervention. When asked about relations between the two last week


he was saying, no, we get on timeth fine. Have alike at this. It's like


all relationships. Sometimes off bits of tension, it's always going


to be difficult at some stage, yesterday I was at Number 10 and we


had a civil conversation. There's a good relationship there, but like


all relationships, sometimes a bit of tension.


Not surprisingly, Vic, as you can imagine, MPs are all saying, hang on


a second, this is hypocrisy, it's David Cameron's Government who're


imposing this cut, it's a bit rich for him to be complaining. That's


been the line being pushed by the Labour Party. This was one of the


spokesman this morning. Council leaders are finding health cuts. It


seems extraordinary the Prime Minister didn't appreciate the scale


of the cuts that hit his own council. When you move into the


Metropolitan areas, the City and northern councils, because of the


way the funding formula works, they are happy to find even deeper cuts.


This has gone in another direction all together. Labour maybe are


trying to milk it. They have write tonne the Cabinet Secretary to


complain about Mr Cameron's behaviour and how they say it's a


breach of rules around the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Their


argument being that by inviting the council boss into Number 10 to have


a chat with the Number Ten policy union, Mr Cameron is blurring the


lines between his Prime Ministerial powers and his job as a local MP. I


wonder if he'll have to extend that invitation to all council leaders


then to discuss how cuts may be rolled out? I think the short answer


is no, but what I think about this is, it's kind of a double edged


sword to have the PM in your constituency because at one level


it's great. If you are lobbying for something and want it done, you can


get the PM on your side, that is a huge boost to your prospects of


convincing the Treasury to stump up the cash. However, if the PM is not


happy about what you are doing, it's a major pain in thederier because


you have the Downing Street machine saying, just think twice about that,


so I guess it's a double edged sword having Mr Cameron as one of your


constituents. Thank you very much.


He's one of the most famous men on the planet, but this morning George


Clooney will swap the film set for a cafe for homeless people in Glasgow.


Here is Carol. I haven't seen you since your Strictly journey was


brought to a close. How was it? Brilliant. Such good fun. To start


with I found it hard then grew to love it. I think I went as far as I


could but do it, it's amazing! Was there anything you learnt about


yourself that you didn't know before you went through all of that? Yes, I


am brave than I thought I was. Really, that's fantastic! Took me so


out of my comfort zone, every single Saturday I was dying of nerves but


you had to go for it, push yourself in there and get on with it, there


was no choice. Week one I did get stage fright, I was overwhelmed by


it and if I could have run away from that dance floor, I would have been


in the next taxi, but you had to stay and go through with it. You


could have done a runner, that would have been a story! Was it a bird,


was it a plane, no it was corkwood. How is it looking weather-wise?


It's a bit lively today for some. We have got Storm Abigail approaching.


Tonight is when we'll feel the effects of it in north and west


Scotland where we could have gusts of up to 90mph. They could lead to


travel disrun Australian and power cuts. Abigail is a deep area of low


pressure. Look at the isobars, man! Even I know that's windy. I am so


impressed but you are absolutely right.


In England an Wales, it's going to be windy tonight and also first


thing tomorrow. This little front here is going to cross to bring some


rain again tonight and tomorrow morning. But the main thrust of the


action is going to be across the north and west of Scotland where we


have the tightest squeeze. That is where we'll have the gusts later


this evening and tonight over 80 or 90mph. A lot to get in, so I'll


carry on but it's great to see you. So good to have you back on our


programme, never mind Strictly! See you later.


En Today we have a quiet start to the day. There is some fog around


which will lift. We have got some spots of rain coming in across from


southern counties in across the south-west and Wales. Through the


morning, the rain will gather across Northern Ireland, some will be heavy


and the wind will strengthen. You can see the arrows are on, looking


at gusts in the west of about 50-55mph. Push across central and


eastern parts, the wind will be starting to pick up but it will be


largely dry for much of the day. Looking at variable amounts of


cloud, bright and sunny spells as well but patchy rain coming in


across the south coast. We'll see some of that getting into Wales. We


saw the wind arrows across the Irish Sea, close to the Irish Sea or areas


adjacent will mean gusts of up to 55mph. The rain advances in Northern


Ireland. Showers and winds inland of 15mph, maybe a little more. The wind


will be the main feature, particularly through the evening and


tonight. The main areas to have the strong gusts are Northern Isles and


the Outer Hebrides. The Met Office has issued amber weather warnings


which means be prepared, it could lead to some disruption. We'll see


some snow on the mountain tops, lying at about 400 metres at lower


levels. Do remember, as we head on through


to tomorrow, this colder air pushes across the whole of the UK, so


tomorrow you'll notice a real difference in the feel of the


weather. It will feel much colder. Tomorrow too still a windy start to


the day. The winds only very slowly abating. There'll be a lot of


showers around, some will be heavy and thundery with some hail thrown


in there for good measure and temperature-wise, we are looking at


values between about six and 12. When you add on the elements, it


will feel much colder, one in Aberdeen is how it will feel. More


like eight in London. So a cold feel. That's not unusual


for this stage in November but it's a real change compared to what we


have been used to. From Friday into Saturday, we have got the remnants


of Hurricane Kate coming our way. Over the weekend, we could see


exceptional amounts of rainfall, particular aacross north-west


England and north-west Wales and I'll keep you posted about that


tomorrow. Hello, it's Thursday,


it's just after 10am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to


the programme if you've just joined Murdered by her step-brother who


acted out sick fantasies after watching online pornography - Becky


Watts was just 16 when she was killed by the man she grew up with.


One of her best friends tells us she It didn't sit right with me what she


said about how she felt about him. She was scared and she's not usually


scared of much. To say she was scared of him, I was like, it must


be a serious fear. Also coming up: We'll be discussing


the best ways to cope with the menopause as a new


report says women and doctors have "lost confidence"


in hormone replacement therapy. George Clooney is in Edinburgh


opening a cafe for homeless people and we'll be live there later on.


Standards of care for patients with mental illness in England could be


at risk from cost-cutting, according to a report from


The King's Fund is warning that 40% of mental health trusts are


facing budget cuts, so are reducing staff and hospital beds.


It also claims that many are introducing cheaper,


No-one is really taking responsibility, and meanwhile my


friends keep dying because they need services that are not there, and


these are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people, and they


should not be happening. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi


will touch down this morning It's the first visit of an Indian


Prime Minister in almost a decade. Later he will make an address in


parliament and there will be a fly-past from the red arrows. But he


is a controversial figure, accused by opponents of having an


authoritarian agenda. African and EU leaders will sign


a deal today that's designed to reduce the number of migrants making


their way to Europe. In the past hour, they have approved


a fund of ?1.3 billion to try to stop young people from leaving.


A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has


been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation.


Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the


Royal Free in London last month after falling


She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue


Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will


compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president


Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did


not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included.


Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave


Footage of the incident in Melbourne


sparked a social media outcry.


A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that


We're worried about your present in our store, we are worried you might


steal something. Why would we steal something?! End of discussion...


The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'.


The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher.


One of the boys involved has accepted the apology.


Let's catch up with all the sport now -


Russian President Vladimir Putin says the country must carry out


its own inquiry into the World Anti-Doping Agency's allegations of


Speaking for the first time since the publication of Wada's


strong condemnation, Vladimir Putin ordered co-operation with the


TRANSLATION: It is necessary to hold our own internal investigation and


provide maximum open, and I would like to stress this, open


professional cooperation with international anti-doping agencies.


I agree this is not only a Russian problem but if our foreign


colleagues have questions about them, they have to be answered, too,


and that has to be done in open, professional and conscientious


cooperation with our colleagues. After Stuart Lancaster stepped


down as the head coach of England's Rugby Union side, all thoughts have


immediately been directed towards his successor and the person who'll


ultimately be responsible for breathing new life into a team


which did nothing but disappoint Our rugby reporter Chris


Jones joins me now. A difficult time for England and


Stuart Lancaster but who are the candidates to replace him?


Two things that are no object are a nationality and money. The RFU and


chief executive Ian Ritchie have made it clear they will scour the


world for a global big hitter, someone steeped in international


rugby experience. It is unlikely it will be an Englishman because the


directors of rugby at the premiership clubs do not have that


international experience, so we are looking at names like Jake White,


who won the 2007 World Cup in South Africa. He would rip the RFU's arm


off if they offered the job. Eddie Jones did wonders with Japan at the


recent World Cup, he has huge experience going back to his with


Australia. Michael Jack has transformed Australian rugby over


the last year, but could he be prised away from that job and back


to the Northern is the? Wayne Smith has huge backing but has confirmed


to the BBC he wants to take a sabbatical, could the RFU changed


his mind or bring him in further down the line? Joe Schmidt, Warren


Gatland, a huge number of candidates because the RFU have said no money


and nationality is an object for this, which means on one hand


everyone is a candidate, and on the other hand no-one is because the


best, big hitting names are in jobs at the moment.


Sir Clive Woodward, the World Cup would encourage, thinks the RFU and


all of rugby needs a structural change. Is this about more than the


coach? It is a good point, he is pointing


the finger at the RFU chief executive Ian. He was about who


appointed Ian Lancaster in the first place, he gave him increased power


was over the English game, a new contract grew to 2019 and beyond,


and now Ritchie is the man to lead the recruitment process all over


again, so apply the Woodward saying that why should he get another


chance? He says there should be a bigger between the Chief Executive


and head coach, a performance director, someone for the head coach


to lean on and confide in. We should have a caveat saying that Sir Clive


Woodward feels he is the man for the job since he is using his Daily Mail


column as a way of putting in his job application. It does not mean


they are not valid points, but the RFU would argue that the head coach


needs to have total authority and should not have the answer to


anyone. It will be fascinating to see how things go over the next few


weeks. OK, thanks for joining us.


Now to a truly inspiring story - Serbian basketball player


Natasha Kovacevic has returned to the professional game two years


after losing her leg in a car accident.


Kovacevic was seen as one of her country's most promising


players when the accident happened in September 2013.


Now, with the aid of prosthesis, she is believed to be the first


disabled European basketball player to play in a professional team.


She scored five points for her new side Red Star Belgrade last night.


That is all the sport for now, I will have a recap of the headlines


at about 10:30am. Hello, thank you


for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme


if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News


Channel until 11am this morning. Your contributions to this programme


and your expertise really is key. We will talk about hormone


replacement therapy later, so if you have experienced that, maybe do did


not take it because of the associated cancer risks, which is


why it is in the news again today, then let me know.


And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you


are via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria,


and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app


by going to 'add topics' and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.


We've been talking this morning about the murder of Becky Watts


and what motivated her stepbrother and his girlfriend to kill


Becky's best friend has told us that the teenager was scared of


Nathan Matthews, but she didn't want to tell anyone about her fears.


Yesterday, Matthews was found guilty of murdering Becky Watts during


His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter


In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed


it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister.


He said he just wanted to scare her, as he was upset with how she was


He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up.


We're going to play you the beginning of that disturbing


Nathan, can you give us your full name?


Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this


It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts.


Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone.


I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan,


but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things


Later, when he appeared in court, it came out that he had been watching


pornography. Becky Watts' father and Nathan Bodman, perhaps been speaking


to the BBC. We could not take it in, we could


not believe it. Body parts had been found at the address. We just wanted


to die. Our whole family, everything we knew had been ripped away from


us. And when they told you what had happened? I was sitting on the bed,


rocking violently backwards and forwards, screaming that I wanted to


kill him. The police were not sure if I would do any harm to Angie, but


they don't know how strong our relationship is. I had just been


told that might daughter had been murdered, butchered. Her body parts


found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed. I was just devastated.


Anje just went into shock. You could see it. I just couldn't accept it.


Your son, my daughter, wasn't it? Tell us about Nathan? A loving son,


I would have described him as. He has never lie to me. Always been


open and honest with me. I love to Mikey was my own son. Don't now, I


hate him. -- I loved him like he was my own son. Nathan's girlfriend


Shauna Hoare came to the family six years ago. She always put us up


across as timid and Mel C. She always used to get her own way,


though. I didn't like, personally. Couldn't put my finger on it but


there was something off about her, never really believed in Herbert


became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit, even loved her


like a daughter, didn't I, in the end? Two years earlier Nathan was


best man, Becky and Sean were bridesmaids, a united family as


Darren and Angie got married. They say the rubble, despite this


incredible strain. My love for her is immense, it really is,


unwavering. I have lost a couple of them as a family because I won't


turn on her. I her, never. If this doesn't break is up, nothing will --


I won't desert her, never. Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom. I


have put her bedroom back of it was. It was never usually as tidy as


this, I assure you, but this is how she likes it. I don't really want to


leave here, because Becky lived here. This is the only how she ever


lived in. It has now been nine months since Becky died. I just miss


her, I was she was still here. I live everything, even the


arguments. Yes. 10pm every night I expect the door to go, how to come


through, cook us some tea, dad! But it never does. Every night I still


look out, I listen out for her. It's ridiculous, she has been gone months


now. And yet I still listen out for it.


Let's talk about Doctor John Ed Barlow, a criminologist at


Birmingham University, and in a moment we will speak to Liz


Longhurst whose daughter, Jane, was murdered by a man obsessed with


violent pornography. He was jailed for life in 2004. Doctor Bala, how


would you describe the relationship as you know it between Shauna Hoare


and Nathan Matthews? When we have come offending partnerships or


relationships like Sean and Nathan, it is often the case that people


draw upon notions such as evil or what is known as a map and a shared


by two, but the relationship between Shauna and Nathan was more


complicated. Shauna suggested during the testimony and trial that she


experienced violence and control at the hands of make them throughout


the relationship and talked extensively about this during the


trial. Whilst this shouldn't be used as a technique to diminish her


responsibility or to remove her sense of choice, to gain a more


nuanced understanding of her co-offending relationship and her


personal relationship with Nathan, we need to look at the whole


relationship and how that may have influenced her decision to offend.


She may have claimed those things during the trial but the police said


yesterday she was calculate it, she was cold-blooded?


Undoubtedly in these cases it's very difficult to say what is and what


isn't the truth. Within this type of relationship, particularly if


characterised by violence and control throughout the whole


relationship, that needs to be the focus, rather than explicitly


focussing on her role in the offending, it's also what led to


that. In these co-offending relationships where there is


violence or control, that should be considered as a potential


influencing factor. You will know that Becky watts' father suggested


that Hoares and Matthews could have been the next Rose and Fred West


west, what do you think about that? There is a tendency within these


co-offending offences to draw upon coexisting examples such as Rose and


Fred West west or Myra Hindley and on Brady. These went on for a time


though, and I would argue that these were not


though, and I would argue that these were not criminal master minds It


was more a case of power and control, particularly on the part of


Nathan. OK, I'll come back to you in a moment, I want to talk to Liz


Longhurst whose daughter was murdered by a man obsessed with


online pornography. I wonder if you believe your daughter's death was


preventible? Well, I think it probably was knowing what we know


now but I think then I didn't. Graham Coutts was such a... He was


extremely mazible. Fortunately I'm glad to say I never met him or his


partner. His partner was expecting their twins so it's horrible,


complete hi horrible. And you discovered later that he was


obsessed with violent pornography, he had been viewing it online. Do


you think that is relevant? Absolutely it is. At that time, one


of Reading's MPs, Martin Salter, he took the lead on this and used me as


a kind of figurehead - I don't think I had very much to do with the


formation of the law - but I absolutely agreed with it that it


should go ahead. Of course, it did, but the trouble is, the law's not


that been used, that particular law, very much. A law that bans the


ownership of extreme pornography? Indeed. But hasn't been used? It has


but hardly at all. I think I can only think of probably a handful of


occasions when it's been used. Do you think that search engines should


take responsibility for trying to block that kind of material? Well, I


certainly think they should but I don't think they do. I don't know


what you think, Victoria. Well, they don't at the moment and always push


back on that one and there's the argument about the global scale of


it, how could you possibly kind of police that or enforce it. I think


the thing is, we are all very sociable creatures aren't we, and so


therefore we tend to sort of be friends with people who think as we


do and I think that they should just take far more responsibility than


they do. And Dr Barlow, as a criminologist,


can I ask you about your views, the evidence that you've looked at, of


the link between viewing violent pornography and then actually


carrying that out in reality? Yes, with these kind of things,


particularly thinking about violent pornography, whilst this would have


been an influencing factor, it's very, very difficult to make a


causing effect of relationships. In the case of Nathan, I believe it was


much more about him wanting power and control, both within the context


of offending but also within other relationships in his life as well. I


think that perhaps came hand in hand with the sexual fantasy that would


have come from the violent pornography. Do you mean power and


control over Becky watts in particular or anybody whom he


happened to alight upon? I think particularly with Becky. He talked


in detail during the trial but also before in the text message exchanges


we saw about his hate for Becky and that he obviously investigate


envious and jealous of Becky, particularly with her relationship


with other members of the family. It was power over Becky but also about


other relationships generally within her family as well. In terms of your


experience as a criminologist, where does this case fit, if I can put it


like that? Actually, this kind of case is very rare. This is what


criminologists called siblicide, where the perpetrator is the step or


full brother or sister of the victim. This is very rare in


reality, particularly on this level, this horrific and heinous crime that


was committed within the context of Becky watts. So actually, even


though Becky was in many ways the typical victim as a young female,


the kind of crime that Nathan committed and the murder, the extent


of the murder he committed, was much more common of an intimate partner


relationship, rather than a sibling relationship. Thank you both very


much for coming on the programme. Very nice to meet you.


Nice to have met you and thank you. Let's talk about the migrant crisis.


Still to come before 11; African and EU leaders have signed a deal


designed to reduce the number of migrants making their way to Europe.


?1.3 billion will be used to improve conditions in the African countries


Our correspondent Gavin Lee is in Malta where the leaders are meeting.


What have they been discussing this morning and what have they decided?


Huge meeting, Victoria, 60 world leaders, 25 from Europe, 35 from


Africa, the European leaders here at the Mediterranean conference centre


in this scenic resort in the capital here. They are lined up one by one


to sign a piece of paper which is effectively the centrepiece of this


summit, a fund for African Nations of money, significant amount from


the European Commission, ?1.8 billion euros. Jean-Claude Juncker


asked in the past few days European nations to pledge what they could in


return for African countries trying to stem the flow of their citizens


facing the journey of land and sea, risking their lives to get to


Europe. We have had today an announcement from 25 European


countries, including Britain 3 million euros offered. It's reached


half the target, some decided, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia, not to get


involved at all, they were distrustful of where the money may


go, but it's interesting from the point of view of the money being


raised, there is a belief that Africa can actually do something


about it collectively. I should give you a sense of what's being asked in


return from African Nations. This is the second day of talks and there is


a big emphasis from African countries, forgot just to talk hard


cash but also to increase legal migration routes. I was talking to


Senegalese governments in the past two days and they have said what


about trading deals, education, chances for students, nurses,


trained researchers. So that will be part of negotiations and, think


about it as well, it's pretty specific, we are talking about the


African part of this problem with migration for Europe, the idea of a


much bigger flow from Turkey into Greece, that is for another date I'm


told by the European Council. It's specific small steps at a time. Do


you have a bit more detail, Gavin, on what this massive amount of money


will be spent on? I mean it's got to be jobs in the end, hasn't it, if


most people in parts of Africa are moving across the continent towards


the continent of Europe for work? Yes. Let me give you an example of


Britain's contribution. They have put 3 million euros to the trust


fund, just over ?2 billion, a separate donation of ?25 million of


taxpayers' money for Ethiopia. They have had a huge surge of migration


people leaving in the country from just under 400,000 to just under a


million this year to try to increase developments there. Money to the


whole region. So Mali and certainly around the West of Africa as well,


having humanitarian projects to help immediate aid relief. For Somalia


too there is a big jobs prospect. David Cameron says it will create


9,000 jobs so it's sporadic siphoned off areas. You have got to the core


of this though, there are a lot of leaders. This summit have pledged a


minimum amount and they have matched what other leaders have done, they


won't go further until they can see proof of the money being spent and


we see the return rate of the asylum seekers as economic migrants,


something like 40% of those immigrants have been returned, no


more than that, that rate's got to increase before other nations decide


to pledge any more money. Thank you very much very much Gavin.


Coming up, we are going to see George Clooney prepare to make


sandwiches at a cafe in Scotland. Breaking news to bring you from our


health editor, hue PIP who says the number of patients stuck in hospital


beds in England because their discharge was delayed was at a


record high in September -- hue PIP. -- Hugh Pym.


Pressure on social services because of falling budgets has been blamed


by many for the increase in the number of patients delayed from


being discharged. Now, the Indian Prime Minister, that


Rennes diploma Modi has arrived in Britain for a three-day visit


expected to secure trade deals worth billions -- Narendra mow di.


Christian Fraser, what is he going to do? Out comes the red carpet


again, we have had Xi Jin ping and the fastest growing economy's Prime


Minister, so strategicically important to British Trade


Industry. There is a feeling when you read the newspapers that there


is unrequited love there, that's the headline in the Financial Times, the


idea that Britain is down on bended knee with the flowers for India, yet


India in return's been this aloof lover. Narendra mow di's taken 18


months to come here, he's been to 27 countries before Britain. The


Government can point to the obstacle of the general election but there is


a feeling that there is untapped potential in this relationship. The


red carpet being rolled out yet again. Not a full state visit but


you will recognise there are many similarities to the XI Jin Ping


visit. He'll lunch with the Queen tomorrow, they'll go via the statute


of Gandhi on the way to a speech to a joint session of the House and,


according to Keith Vaz today, it's the first time an Indian Prime


Minister's addressed the Parliament. So a landmark event in that sense.


Tomorrow, I suppose the most important point of the visit for Mr


Mow di, that is this huge political rally that they are going to have at


Wembley. Around 70,000 Indians bust in from all around the country to


mark the final day of Divali, the Indian Festival of Light -- Modi.


Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Still to come


before 11, claims that women and doctors have lost confidence in HRT


as a possible treatment for the men pause because of the associated


cancer risk. We'll talk about that, I have some messages from you as


well who've been taking HRT. Also, the father of one of the British


victims of the Germanwings plane crash caused by Andreas Lubitz


deliberately crashed the plane into the Alps, the families still need


answers. African and EU leaders have approved


and signed off on a ?1.3 billion fund to reduce the migrants heading


to Europe as a result of a special migration summit being held in Malta


which continues today. Despite the fund, the President of the EU


commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said he wants to see member states


making further contributions. Indian's Prime Minister, Narendra


mow dibegins a three-day visit today, the first visit of an Indian


PM in almost a decade. He'll make an address in Parliament later and


there'll be a fly-past by the Red Arrows. He's accused by some of


having an authoritarian agenda. Mental care patients could be at


risk of cost cutting according to an influential think-tank. The King's


Fund warns 40% of Health Trusts are facing budget cuts so are reducing


staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing cheaper,


untested self-help services. No-one's really taking


responsibility and meanwhile my friends keep dying because they need


services that aren't there, and these are avoidable, preventible


deaths of young people and this should not be happening.


A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has


been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation.


Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the


Royal Free in London last month after falling


She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue


Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will


compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president


Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did


not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included.


Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave


Footage of the incident in Melbourne sparked a social media outcry.


A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that


We're worried about your presence in our store, we're worried you


The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'.


The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher.


One of the boys involved has accepted the apology.


Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.


Hello again, the main headlines in sport this morning.


The Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered


a full investigation into claims of 'state-sponsored doping.'


It's after a World Anti-Doping Agency report recommended the


country be banned from athletics.


After Stuart Lancaster parted ways with England yesterday the search is


on for a new head coach, but will the RFU have to look


Lewis Hamilton will take part in this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix


He's also revealed he had a road accident in Monaco earlier


And Chelsea's women face a difficult task to reach the quarterfinals


They lost the home leg of their last 16 tie against Wolfsburg 2-1.


They will need a great result in the the return leg next week.


That's all the sport for this morning, I'll have all the latest


I'm back tomorrow Victoria, see you then.


Let's talk about the Nursie contracted a bowler working in


Sierra Leone. She fell seriously ill again last month and has now been


released from an isolation ward at the Royal Free Hospital, having been


flown back to Glasgow to continue her recovery. In October, Pauline


Cafferkey's condition was described as critical. Let's talk to Jane


Draper, our health correspondent. Great news? A true, having Ebola not


once but twice, being critically ill from it not once but twice, there


were serious fears for her life and survival when she was said to be


critically ill at the Royal free last month. When she was readmitted


over a month ago it caused shock around the world, what did it mean


for other Ebola survivors? We knew that the virus could hang on in


bombardment of the body, but to make someone this ill again caused


serious concerns, so it is great news that she is on the mend and


back in Glasgow. Can I ask how they treat the virus?


This time she was treated with an experimental anti-viral drug, a


relatively new drug involving a drip once a day that she was given an


infusion with, and it seemed to do the trick. But it is such a new area


of science, there have been four cases now at the Royal Free, twice


in bold thing Pauline, and each time all four patients, each four


incidents used different treatments. It appears to have worked but we


don't know if that was the drugs they were given all the body getting


better, there is a lot we don't know about this virus.


And I suppose we don't know if this is the final recovery or if she


could regress? They don't know that either, resume of the?


They are as confident as they can be, otherwise they would not have


released from the specialist unit and the plastic tent in which she


was being treated, so they are answered and there is no risk to the


public. The biggest risk was always to Pauline herself rather than


anyone else. But, yes, there are still uncertain questions more


generally about the science of this virus, we are still learning.


Thank you, Jane. When co-pilot Andreas Lubitz


deliberately took control of his plane and plunged it


in a mountainside in the French Alps earlier this year,


he killed all 150 people on board. The family and friends of the


victims have spent the last eight months trying to come to terms with


what happened but they're also still searching for answers about how this


tragedy could have happened. The view so many visitors have


adored. Now the scene


of Europe's latest tragedy. This is where flight number 9525


crashed into France's Southern Alps this morning,


with 150 people on board. A passenger aircraft reduced to


debris the size of small cars. All around are the jagged edges


and rugged peaks of the mountains, which are accessible, of course,


only from the air. That's making the recovery


and salvage operation after So many faces, so many lives,


and a single question: Why did Andreas Lubitz, entrusted to


fly these people safely, appear to We found medical records indicating


an existing illness and treatment. Torn-up sick notes,


including one from the day That supports the theory that


the deceased hid his illness What do we know about


Andreas Lubitz? The 27-year-old qualified


as a pilot in 2013. When he took off on Tuesday he had


630 hours of flight experience. There is speculation


about a six-month break he took But as far


as Lufthansa are concerned, Perhaps one of today's most


distressing reports comes from the German tabloid newspaper, Bild,


which claims it has got hold of a leaked copy of the cockpit voice


recording made on flight 9525. On it, it's claimed you can hear


the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, who's accused of deliberately


having brought down the plane, chatting with his senior college,


the pilot, before they take off. The pilot complains he's not had


a chance to use the toilet. Once they are in the air,


the co-pilot urges him The pilot does so, and then,


according to Bild, can be heard knocking on the door,


increasingly desperately, Passengers can be heard screaming


as the pilot shouts, It is yet another chilling detail


to come out of this disaster. New evidence that the co-pilot


practised his fatal dive that killed It happened on a flight from Germany


to Spain earlier the same day. On board that flight were


three British victims. One of them was 28-year-old


Paul Bramley. Let's talk to Paul's father, Phil,


in his first national TV interview. Thank you very much for coming on


the programme. Tell us about your son. He liked his football, very


affectionate, lovely lad. He used to play football where we live, here's


a Manchester United fan. It is difficult to speak about him because


it is still very raw. He travelled, spoke many languages? Yes, I was


thinking about that this morning, four languages, I don't know where


he got it from! It must have been his mother! He had an Estonian


girlfriend, so that helped him. He lived with us in Portugal, had a


place in Majorca, so he spoke Spanish. Pretty good with his


languages. He loved to travel. I think that's what led him, he was


training to be a hotel manager, in hospitality. Everything was in front


of them, at fantastic life. I think the plan was that you were going to


build a hotel for him because you are in the trade, and he would run


it for you? He had worked with us, he was a great lad to work with, you


never had to tell him off, always on time. He was great to work with, and


that is where we saw his future. He liked people, he wanted to be in


hotel management. I build hotels and renovate them, so that was as far as


we had got. In terms of the company, Lufthansa, who ran


Germanwings, what answers do you need from them still? The big one,


for us, is the mental health, we want transparency and the truth of


what I understand of the facts from the French prosecutors will stop a


few weeks before the flight, he was still seeing seven doctors. This is


the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. He had seen several doctors from 2009


onwards, I still cannot understand how somebody is allowed to be in a


cockpit on his own with those sorts of issues that they knew about, so


we want transparency on that side of it.


You will know that German state prosecutor said that they found


evidence that Lubitz had hidden this unspecified medical condition. If


someone hide that, I wonder if you can legislate for that? We thought


about it, him hiding stuff, but we are talking about a five-year


period. The health checks that should have been done, that were


done, how did he sit through those? How did he continue to be able... He


had been suspended, how can you get back on and fly again? It is a long


period of time, 51 different doctors. What about his friends,


relatives, who else is going through this? Right up to a couple of weeks


before, where are the safeguards, what are they doing to allow


somebody back into the cockpit? You have got a duty of care. It is


ridiculous, there has got to be some checks. Do you feel you have been


treated decently by the company? No, it is almost run by solicitors, the


stuff going on now. They are arrogant, inhumane. How they are


having to deal with things, the information coming back, obviously


they have got their defences up. We want justice for all of the


families, all of the people. We want the information, we don't want it to


happen again. There are other issues, I want a proper memorial at


the crash site. There is one already, we turned up this year for


Paul's birthday to the crash site and these seven big concrete bunkers


have turned up, full of the body parts. I don't like that. There are


quite a lot of things we would like to see happening, and bit more


dignified than concrete bunkers and a small plaque. I would like to see


them mentioned by name. I know you travelled up that mountain on


Paul's birthday. Why was that important to you? I felt it was


obviously where it happened, where he left his body, so I wanted to...


Are you OK? Yes. I wanted to go up there and sit and just be a bit


closer, I suppose. Is it difficult, that one. -- a bit difficult. It is


about four hours, you are not supposed to go up there because they


are still flying in a doubt, it has been six months, they are still


sanitising the area, helicopters around all the time, so I got up


early, managed to get up there in four hours, as high as I could to


the rock face. It gives you a bit of comfort, it is a lovely place, very


pretty place. You have got to remember there are only about 150


French people living in that area as well and it has affected them


enormously. Something should be done a bit more properly for them as


well, it would help and be fantastic for us. Dignified. Something should


be done. Whose responsibility is it, do you think, to make the decision


about an appropriate and dignified memorial? I think the families, we


are all the same, we all feel the same, we want something that


remembers our children a bit more than what there is. It has been left


up to the French, I think, and I think they feel affronted by a tall


as well. It is disgraceful, what has happened. They have had to look


after it all and do it all. I think if that would be good. You used the


word inhumane to the company have treated, that is how you feel you


have been treated by the company? Yes, it is almost like cut-price


airlines, I don't think it is compatible, we are all to blame in


some respects for this sort of culture of cheap flights. It is not


compatible with safety, in my view, anyway. If it -- that is a bigger


story. In terms of the way they have treated you? They took a step back,


left it to the solicitors, accountants, everything else, arms


length. It weeks to get a response that Paul was on the flight. Nobody


has ever wrong and apologised -- ever called and apologised. I


suppose they are frightened of the repercussions and everything else,


but the humane side, if you were the CEO you would get straight on the


phone and wring every family, every person. But you are probably right


that they perhaps think if they apologise it is at a meeting some


sort of liability at this point? We are beyond that, the liability is in


place, they have a duty of care and they have failed. It is almost a


given where the fault lies. Lubitz, the state he was in and everything


else. An airline is there to prevent those sorts of things happening. You


cannot put somebody in charge of a plane who has got that history.


I've got a statement from Germanwings, you will have heard


this before. We we share in the sadness, shock and incomprehension


of the family and friends". It's short? Yes, so ring us up, you know,


speak to us directly. Carol would appreciate so much more. We have a


life sentence. That paragraph is shameful really. It's corporate


talk, it's, you know, these are real people and real families and, you


know, I would imagine they'll think that provided their share price


isn't affected and all the other things, that this will go away in no


time and we don't want this to be Just one of those that's happened.


There was the Russian one, the Malaysian one, this one could have


been prevented, this was different, something could have been done more


than what was done. I know it's been really difficult


for you to talk about this, but you have done it amazingly well, thank


you very much, we really appreciate your time, thank you. Thank you.


Before the end of the programme, we are going to talk about HRT and the


associated cancer risks and, a report out today which suggests that


HRT can do a lot of good for women going through the menopause. More on


that in the next few minutes. George Clooney has just opened a cafe for


homeless people in Edinburgh. Our correspondent Kevin is there. This


is a tiny back street. It's a busy street here in Edinburgh but it's a


pedestrianised area. There was quite a crowd here, gathered from early on


this morning, and when George Clooney arrived, he got out,


unexpectedly at the beginning of the crowd, and worked his way all across


them, speaking to people, shaking hands. A lot of people taking


selfies, a lot of people just enjoying the moment of seeing this


Hollywood film star in this small back street in Edinburgh. He was


here, as you say, to see this social project where people come in, they


buy themselves a coffee then they can leave money to buy a coffee for


homeless or disadvantaged people. But just before he went in, I was


lucky enough to get a quick word with him.


What do you think of what they do there? It's pretty amazing, I'm


going to see it, haven't seen it up close yet. Why are you supporting


this charity? It's a great idea. The idea that we can participate in


people's problems is important. You must be used to a crowd like that in


Scotland, we are not, what do you think of it? It's not bad because


they are standing out in the cold. They are going to Sir John Stevens


you a sandwich. What kind of a sandwich do you like? I gotta see


what they got. They tell me stew is on the menu, what do you think of


that? They got what? Stew. I'm good with stew. How do you feel about


being in Scotland... How do you feel about this company making a social


difference whereas Starbucks don't pay any tax. I don't know about


Starbucks but I know about this company which is pretty great. Are


you going to buy a loyalty card? Yes, I am. How much are you going to


put on it? I don't know yet, I'll have a look. Don't push. You hand's


freezing. There he was, Josh George Clooney,


he's gone now but a few people who came to see him are still here. Why


did you come here? I love him. He's so handsome. I was working and


somebody came and said, George Clooney is in castle Street and I


said, oh, my God, I ran here, came here, took a picture of him, tried


to make a selfie but couldn't. You were not quite chasing after car but


you managed to speak to him? Yes, and touch him. Absolutely worth the


wait, two hours, well worth it. The person that he really came to see


was the cofounder of the cafe, so how did this all come about? We knew


George was a committed humanitarian, he has a charity in Sudan so we


reached out to him and said we'd fund-raise for his charity and asked


him to visit our Social Bite cafe, a social enterprise where we feed


through meals that our customers prepay for for the local homeless


community and we employ a quarter of the workforce from the homeless


community so very excited that he came. What did he eat or drink? It


was unbelievable, we have had the global media today so for our small


Scottish cafes, the profile is amazing, raises the concept of


social enterprise, homelessness. He was incredibly charming, met all the


staff, did selfies, we gave the opportunity for a couple of guys to


tell their story a bit. We let him sample some of the food and I think


he's donated ?1,000 by all accounts to prepay meals for homeless people


and he handed over a ?5 note as well. He worked the crowd when he


was here as well, a true pro? An absolute pro, never quite seen


anything like it, incredibly charismatic, stopped, shook hands,


got photos with almost anyone that he could so unbelievable. Quite a


day for Edinburgh, thank you very much, Josh. Quite a day for


Edinburgh, it's not every day that an international film star, one of


the most famous that there is comes to a little back street like this.


It's believed HRT use has dropped dramatically since a couple of


studies linked it to an increased risk of cancer a few years ago. A


report says specialist services should be in place for women under


the age of 40 who begin premature menopause. Melanie Davies is a


consultant gainologist at London University Hospital and has worked


on the guidelines and three women, Nia, Fisher Subarta. What is if


menopause? When a woman's periods stop, stop producing the female


hormone which is oestrogen. The similar Poms? About eight out of ten


get symptoms, a quarter quite severely. It's typically hot


flushes, night sweats, often muscle and joint pain, mood changes,


particularly low mood and frequently sexual difficulties, sometimes those


are physical to do with vaginal dryness and sometimes psychological


with loss of interest. So HRT can help, what are the risks associated


with taking it though in terms of cancer specifically? I should say


the guideline tries to look at all approaches, not just at HRT. That is


the most effective treatment for the symptoms though. The concern has


been mainly over cancer risk and in particular the risk of breast


cancer. We have reexamined all of the evidence and we are really


focussing on women who are around the age of 50 going to their doctor


with symptoms. For them, over the next five to ten years, there is a


risk of breast cancer, it's about 22 in 1,000, to give you some numbers,


and that would increase to about five per 1000. So HRT would be


responsible for? An extra five cases of breast cancer. Up from the 22


expected in a thousand women over five years? Between five and ten.


Let me ask all three of you, some of you have taken HRT, some not, what


do you think of the risks and how it affects your choices? I refused to


take it. Because of the cancer risk? Precisely because of the cancer


risk. Even though it's so small? Indeed but I already have existed


illnesses so I'm putting in a far more amount of chemicals inside my


body than necessary or required, so I turn to alternative they aries


using herbal medicine. That was far more beneficial. Nia, what about


you? I was diagnosed with menopause when I was 35 so the pros I thought


far outweighed the cons as far as oestrogen that my body wasn't


producing naturally any more. I think it's great that the guidelines


that it mentions women under the age of 40 because there is a definite


lack of support up until now. Hopefully that will change.


Anxietyian, yours was a surgical menopause after a hysterectomy? Yes,


total hysterectomy including both ovaries. Your decision about it was


what? Initially it was that I chose not to take it and that was


essentially due to a lack of information. My information was


based on the way that some HRT is produced which is conjugated equine


oestrogen andethically I could not take that. What was that thing


about... Conjugated equine oestrogen. Is that horse urine, is


that true that it contains that? That is the original HRT and the


most widely used. The modern ones are not animal derivatives and they


are more close to the human body. The GPs are saying effectively what?


Have an individual discussion with the women that come to seek your


advice. GPs would do that anyway without guidelines... That's not


true, sorry, that's just not true. OK, go on, tell me! It's up to each


and every individual woman now to make sure they have access to the


right information. In this day and age of the Internet and everything


else, there are still so many women who do not have the information they


require and the GP is the last person possibly that you would get


any information from. All you have to do is ask? Part of the


difficulty, Victoria, is that many women feel very, very close by the


time they make that appointment and go for that appointment. When


they're turned away or given antidepressants or told, do you know


actually it's just a phase of life, you'll have to get on with it, no.


You want to come in Nia? When I was diagnosed, I was in a state of shock


and lost all my confidence. Even the thought of picking up the phone and


making a GP appointment was almost too overwhelming and I did but once


I was in the room, you need somebody to give you the information and to


take the reins because sometimes you are just not in a place where you


feel you can do that. You were in a state of shock because A you were


young and B it's going to affect your fertility? I'm infertile, yes.


What help did you get then? I didn't get any help as far as the emotional


side of it at all, no offer of counselling or pointed in any


direction at all. It was all about HRT and the physical side of it. But


that's only a fraction of what you are actually going through. That is


really interesting, you would agree it's a fraction of what is going on


up here as well? I initially chose not to take the HRT because my


information wasn't complete. Eventually, I got to such a low


place in my life, I wasn't functioning at all, and I went back,


actually I was taken back to my GP by my wonderful husband and I sat


down and when we sat down she said to me, you don't have to have that


equine oestrogen, you can have bio-identical oestrogen, but I


didn't know that. That hadn't been, at no point mentioned. After my


hysterectomy, I'd managed to come out of the hospital within two days,


that was my choice, I wanted to be out, I left with absolutely no


information. All right. I have learnt a lot,


thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the programme all of you.


On the programme tomorrow, we'll look at the Russian doping scandal


which has rocked athletics. Thank you very much for your company today


and messages. Back tomorrow at 9. 15, have a good day.


Join us on BBC One for a truly epic night of entertainment,


featuring your favourite stars and shows.


Phil Bramley, the father of a British man killed in the Germanwings plane crash in March, tells Victoria Derbyshire the suicidal co-pilot should have been grounded.

A close friend of Becky Watts has said the teenager was 'scared' of her stepbrother Nathan Matthews, who has been convicted of her murder.

And studio guests discuss new guidelines for treating the symptoms of the menopause.