03/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


03/02/2016

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Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria,

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David Cameron tries to persuade his own MPs to back a deal he hopes

:00:12.:00:16.

will keep Britain in the European Union.

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One senior minister has described it as a mess.

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The Prime Minister says it will deliver "substantial change",

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I think strong, determined, patient negotiation has achieved

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But is it a good enough outcome for voters.

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We'll ask our studio audience here if they think David Cameron has

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got a good deal - and we want you to take part in our discussion

:00:42.:00:45.

The US records its first case of the Zika virus in someone

:00:46.:00:53.

But what's it like to live with the condition

:00:54.:00:58.

We talk to one mum whose son was born with microcephaly.

:00:59.:01:06.

Plus, why one leading gay rights campaigner now supports

:01:07.:01:10.

the Northern Irish bakers who refused to make a cake

:01:11.:01:14.

Welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC

:01:15.:01:29.

We'll keep you across the latest breaking and developing stories.

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You can watch the programme online wherever you are -

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via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

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We're joined this morning by our political guru Norman Smith

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and a studio audience to discuss if the prime minister David Cameron

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has got a good enough deal over re-negotiating the Uk's membership

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We want to hear from you - details on how to get in touch

:01:55.:02:00.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

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And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

:02:06.:02:07.

you are - via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:02:08.:02:10.

In Parliament later today, the Prime Minister will try

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to persuade MPs to back the draft settlement unveiled yesterday

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on Britain's relationship with the European Union.

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A senior minister has described the proposals as "a mess",

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but David Cameron says they deliver the changes he promised.

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By the end of next year we'll be asked to vote on whether or not

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the UK should stay or leave the EU - probably in the summer.

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Mr Cameron says the reforms were enough for him

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But many in the Conservative party - and elsewhere - disagree.

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It all boils down to whether there's been progress in four key areas.

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whether parliament will have the power to block EU laws

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Second, accepting that the pound sits alongside

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Third - a commitment to boost Europe's

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competitiveness by cutting back on bureaucracy and regulations.

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And finally - restricting benefits for European migrants.

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Lots of reaction coming out of Europe this morning.

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Within the last half hour we've heard from the Netherlands.

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They currently hold the rotating presidency of the European council -

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they say a proposal to help Britain to remain in the EU is likely to be

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And Commission President Jean Claude-Juncker has told

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the European Parliament that the proposal on reforming

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Britain's relationship with the EU must be supported.

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There's a debate going on right now we'll bring

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We're joined by our studio audience - and our political guru

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What are the key elements of this deal? Immigration was the big win

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which David Cameron wanted and he thinks he has kind of got it with

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the idea of the emergency brake. Like many of the reforms he has got,

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it is a half win, half loss, he has an agreement, to have this four-year

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ban on EU migrants, claiming in work benefits, but we do not know when

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this will come into force and we do not know who will decide it and how

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long it will last, and it seems that migrants will gradually be able to

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claim benefits, they will be phased in. It is a messy victory the David

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Cameron. The other thing he wanted was the idea the red card to stop

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the EU bossing around national parliaments with the legislation

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they did not want. He has a kind of red card. When you look at the

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detail, you can only use it in very limited circumstances, it is not for

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all new laws, just a small number, and you have to get 16 of the 28

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parliaments to agree, that is a hugely high threshold. David Cameron

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has got some games, regarding immigration and the red card, but he

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is a long way off getting what he wanted in its entirety -- gains.

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What about the economy? He wanted to protect countries like Britain being

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pushed around by countries in the single currency, and he has an

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agreement that if we are unhappy we can say to everyone

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agreement that if we are unhappy we not acceptable, we don't like this,

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so we can talk about it. He can't actually say we are not putting up

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with it, but he can initiate, sage and at the European Council and is

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the -- you can initiate a conversation at the European

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Council, and so he can raise his concerns, but he cannot stop the

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single currency from doing things to us which we don't want.

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Competitiveness? This was the shortest section in the legalistic

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document, and there were many fine words about stripping back

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regulation and getting rid of bureaucracy, but who is going to

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disagree? On that, David Cameron has got an acknowledgement that Europe

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must do better in terms of trying to be more competitive and reaching out

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and being more economically liberal but has anything changed? Not

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really, it is just fine words. And sovereignty? He wanted an end to the

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move towards ever closer union. What the paper says, ever closer union,

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one of the principles of the EU, the paper says, ever closer union,

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integration, we will not become the paper says, ever closer union,

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United States of Europe. In time they will spell that out in a future

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treaty, they have said, and so they will spell that out in a future

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Cameron has an assurance, nothing to panic

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Cameron has an assurance, nothing to a legal document to

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Cameron has an assurance, nothing to Britain, you are out of it, we

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Cameron has an assurance, nothing to have to wait and see and hopefully

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we will get a treaty in time, but quite when, we don't know. OK, those

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are the bones of the deal. We have a studio audience. As this led any of

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you to change your perspective on the way you would vote in a

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referendum? -- has. Absolutely not. LAUGHTER

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David Cameron has taken the worst of both worlds, the economic policies

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of the European Union, which I disagree with, they can be very

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exploitative. He wants to keep some rid of the more positive stuff like

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the human rights and the environmental legislation, so I feel

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this is a step backwards environmental legislation, so I feel

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the global perspective on the European Union. You want out?

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Certainly. European Union. You want out?

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pro-Europe. What do you think of the renegotiation? It is to satisfy his

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backbenchers and to try to give the party together, rather than making

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demands that will amount to a party together, rather than making

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things that he was party together, rather than making

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really apply for a four-year period and what he is focusing on, migrant

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benefits, that is an issue which is sparsely overstated in the media and

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in the mind of the public. -- parsley. It is more politics than

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trying to get a proper agreement -- fastly. You don't think people out

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there are that bothered? With fastly. You don't think people out

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work benefits, migrants, it is only 5%, European migrants, claiming out

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of work benefits, but the public perception is far greater than that.

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of work benefits, but the public That is a headline grabber which can

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be used on behalf of the leave campaign rather than based in fact.

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Is that a key issue? I must agree with this, there is a general

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perception that migrants, EU migrants take out more than they

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contribute and that is actually not the case. There is evidence from the

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UCL published in 2014 which states there is a net contribution of ?20

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billion, that means that not only do they cover what they take out on

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welfare, they also contribute to the budget. You came here from Poland in

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2004? You are well informed on this issue and feel strongly about it.

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You want the UK to stay in the EU? I do. The debate is based on emotional

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arguments, rather than hard fact and hard analysis of the actual numbers.

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I think this is what the debate should really concentrate on, and

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move away from the emotional aspects. Peter, you would like out.

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What I wanted to say, most people, most people bleed migration is a

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good thing, but the problem at the moment is the uncontrolled speed at

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which we have got migration -- most people believe. We have no control

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with our borders. This is a good country, but the resources in

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schools and in hospitals, and in businesses, the impact of the EU, I

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don't think we have anything in the negotiation which will reduce the

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burden of bureaucracy on businesses. Those are my reasons and I did not

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see anything in this renegotiation which will change. Could there have

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been anything which would have changed your perspective? Were you

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waiting to see what came out? The things that were asked for not

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ambitious enough, in my opinion, they were not repatriating

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sovereignty or repatriating the controls on migration that I wanted.

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To be honest, he did not get much because he did not ask for very

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much, that is what I feel. I would add, the European Union was based on

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certain principles, as Donald Tusk said, there are certain lines which

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cannot be crossed because that would mean moving away from the principles

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on which the EU was built. Freedom of movement was one of those

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principles. That needs to be taken into account, as well as the fact

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that Britain is only one of 28 members and it is not a stronger

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member, it is an equal member of the European Union. The voice of the

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other 27 member states needs to be taken into account. Going forward,

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does it shift the balance in the relationship? The deal that was done

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yesterday? Yes. Not really, it is a compromise, everything is a

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compromise, you have got to compromise with 27 other countries,

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you're never going to get what you want. My sense is, this document is

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not going to make much difference to the way anyone votes, including in

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Parliament. I was tramping around talking to people and I did not find

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a single MP who said, now I'm going to do this or now I'm going to do

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that, they had already made up their minds. It seems to be, this is a

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document which focuses on detailed areas, but at the end of the day, I

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suspect most people will go into the referendum and it will be gut

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instinct what feel in their bones. Actually, I feel European or,

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actually, I'm fed up with being bossed around by Europe, they cannot

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get a grip with migration, I think it will be that kind of gut instinct

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which will shape how people vote. What ever David Cameron did get,

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that will not make a blind bit of difference. You are undecided, Mal?

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What happened yesterday has not changed my mind. I'm relieved to

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hear you say that! I'm Australian, I've lived in the UK, 12 years, and

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I see the benefits of the EU, my heart says stay in because of the

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commercial and travel opportunities. My head says, wait a moment, it is

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to do with the elephant in the room, ever closer union. You have just

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said that they say there's nothing to worry about, but I don't know

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whether we trust the EU. Ireland and France and the Netherlands voted

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against a treaty, but the EU carried on as if nothing had happened. It is

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a trading pact, which can get close, or is it the United States of

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Europe. I would be in favour of one of those but not the other. One

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thing we can say, the challenge facing those that would like to pull

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out of Europe, there is maybe a higher bar than those who want to

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stay in, because instinctively people stick with what they know. If

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you are going to give Vince people you want to get out, you have got to

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make a much bigger and better I'd meant -- if you are going to

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convince people. Those that want to get out have got to change the way

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that people think. If you are sitting on the fence, you might hang

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on to the fence, I would say. You do want to get out, Emmett? The

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renegotiation, basically this is just a fudge, if you look at the

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demands on David Cameron, that he has secured, the red card idea, that

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is effectively just received. He says if many people vote for one way

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of doing things, we will get our way -- that is effectively just

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democracy. You do not need to call it a red card. And then we have got

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the action on curbing benefits, and I think, it is not just about

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benefits, people actually want to see action on numbers, as well.

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Where he has not said anything about that, people have noticed that that

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part is missing. So, I don't see that he has done much which will

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change people's minds. Martin, you want to stay in, I spoke

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to a panel of people the other day and the thing that was striking,

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there was more of a sense among ordinary people in Europe, a sense

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of pride of being part of the EU which does not seem to be prevalent

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in this country. Do you feel pride? What makes you want to stay in? I do

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feel pride in an identity as a Brit and also as a European. It is a key

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part of your identity? I do and think it is at the heart of what

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David Cameron has been doing in the last few days which is to try to

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strike this line between the practical case for remaining in

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Europe and keeping low barriers to trade and immigration, being a

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really great thing that we have benefited from as a country for

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hundreds of years, not just recently. At the same time, we do

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have a slightly protectionist natural fear of people coming and

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taking our jobs. It was to that fear, as expressed by Ukip during

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the election, that David Cameron is speaking, and he is trying to tread

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this line between appearing tough and saying we are going to get our

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way whilst acknowledging, in reality, we do have a net gain, not

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just in the contribution that immigration makes but in the

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contribution that lower trade barriers undoubtably make to British

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businesses. We have to retain that but also acknowledge that people are

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nervous about what happened in other countries. We can't deny that the

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world is moving to ever closer union so to pick out phrases and make them

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emotive and say it is a bad thing to move to that, trade

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emotive and say it is a bad thing to coming down. With China,

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Asia-Pacific, it is an coming down. With China,

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in the world so to make them emotive issues I think is more about

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appearances in politics. issues I think is more about

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face a difficulty here. I wonder if we are not prisoners of our history,

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the story of our island nation gives it a different perspective to the

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rest of Europe and it makes is harder for us to be reconciled to be

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part of this bigger continent. It does if we forget our history. If

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you look to the Middle Ages is exporting unspun will to Europe, and

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making the move to say, we would like some European immigration so we

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can bring skilled spinners to the UK and build a massive extra of

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industry here, if you forget that, you can say, we are worried about

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being an island nation. But this story of a maritime nation, it is

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very emotional, but I went a small business, none of us can really sail

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a boat! But we can all trade internationally and we see that when

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the trade with European countries we can do so quickly and easily, to

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bring their expertise here and build better businesses here than we would

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bring their expertise here and build when we trade for the US, for

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example, when when we trade for the US, for

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hard-headed elements or is there a gut feeling about feeling European

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hard-headed elements or is there a and pride within that? To a

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hard-headed elements or is there a it is hard-hitting to the fact of

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the matter but I think a it is hard-hitting to the fact of

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to national borders is getting quite outdated. With the kind of threats

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that we face, not only humanitarian but in a climate nature, I don't

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think you can act unilaterally any more to deal with the things we are

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facing. By having this body that is committed to looking outward and

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working within its member states committed to looking outward and

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well as externally, that is a very positive thing. Do you feel

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passionate about this? Does it feel like the right thing for politicians

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to be talking about like the right thing for politicians

:19:26.:19:28.

probably until June when like the right thing for politicians

:19:29.:19:32.

referendum is expected? I think so and for lots of reasons. We talk

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about ever closer union, I don't think that is an emotive issue, it

:19:38.:19:41.

is an important philosophical one and everything hangs on it for me.

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We talk about sovereignty of nations, one of the things that

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makes Europe very strong in my view is unity with diversity. It is the

:19:50.:19:54.

diversity of Europe that makes it attractive for people to live and

:19:55.:20:01.

work here, but if we do stamp on that uniformity with that unified

:20:02.:20:04.

state, I think that would destroy one of the great strengths. We saw

:20:05.:20:08.

that with the Euro crisis, cultural differences to attitudes in

:20:09.:20:14.

taxation. June 23? It is looking that way, presumably mystic Cameron

:20:15.:20:23.

will get a deal -- Mr Cameron. A lot more discussion like this to come,

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thank you for joining us. We would love to get your thoughts on this

:20:27.:20:30.

and we will talk through some of your views are little later. Coming

:20:31.:20:33.

up... We hear from a gay rights campaigner

:20:34.:20:34.

who's changed his mind and is now supporting the Northern Irish bakers

:20:35.:20:37.

who refused to make a cake And what's it like living

:20:38.:20:42.

with the condition linked We talk to one mum whose son

:20:43.:20:44.

was born with microcephaly. that he hopes will keep Britain

:20:45.:20:54.

in the European Union. The Prime Minister will field

:20:55.:21:03.

questions in the Commons about the draft deal paving the way

:21:04.:21:05.

for the UK's EU in-out referendum. Health officials are trying

:21:06.:21:08.

to confirm if an American with the Zika virus contracted it

:21:09.:21:11.

through sexual contact. It's concerning scientists

:21:12.:21:15.

as the disease - linked to birth defects - is usually

:21:16.:21:17.

transmitted by mosquitoes. The discovery of a man's body

:21:18.:21:22.

on a cliff edge in Anglesey is being linked to a triple murder

:21:23.:21:24.

investigation near Leeds. The bodies of a woman and two

:21:25.:21:28.

children were found at a house These pictures from China show

:21:29.:21:31.

a backlog of 50,000 rail passengers - stranded in the south

:21:32.:21:41.

of the country. The authorities have been laying

:21:42.:21:44.

on extra trains to try It's been caused by bad weather

:21:45.:21:47.

that's hampering the country's busiest travel period -

:21:48.:21:51.

the Chinese New Year getaway. Let's catch up with all the sport

:21:52.:21:59.

now with John and there was a contender for goal

:22:00.:22:02.

of the season last night. Absolutely, and incredible goal from

:22:03.:22:10.

Jamie Vardy. We have been talking about him all season and we are

:22:11.:22:16.

again. Leicester City's remarkable run in the Premier League continues.

:22:17.:22:21.

His goal was well worth watching and we will have that in a little while.

:22:22.:22:26.

They beat Liverpool and maintain their lead at the top of the table.

:22:27.:22:33.

People were predicting that their run would come to an end but even

:22:34.:22:36.

the biggest doubters are predicting they could go on to win the title.

:22:37.:22:40.

We'll be looking ahead to the start of England's One day series

:22:41.:22:42.

with South Africa in the cricket - hoping to repeat their Test success.

:22:43.:22:46.

After a great week for British tennis at the Australian Open,

:22:47.:22:49.

news on an emerging star who's set to become the youngest british

:22:50.:22:52.

And in an ultimate test of man versus machine, find out

:22:53.:22:59.

what happens when a rugby team test their strength against

:23:00.:23:02.

Bakers who refused to make a cake with the slogan "Support gay

:23:03.:23:14.

marriage" should not have been found guilty of discrimination -

:23:15.:23:17.

that's according to a leading gay rights campaigner who initially

:23:18.:23:20.

Ashers Baking Company in Belfast is appealing against a ruling

:23:21.:23:26.

that it breached discrimination laws.

:23:27.:23:27.

But the campaigner Peter Tatchell says he now feels bound to defend

:23:28.:23:30.

the company despite initially criticising them.

:23:31.:23:33.

We'll speak to him in a moment, but first let's go live to Belfast

:23:34.:23:36.

There was a judgment against them last year but they are appealing.

:23:37.:23:49.

Bring us up-to-date with what this case centres on. This was an order

:23:50.:23:57.

for a cake for that is expansive day which led to a claim of

:23:58.:24:00.

dissemination and damages of ?500 being awarded to the customer who

:24:01.:24:05.

was refused the cake -- discrimination. The legal battle is

:24:06.:24:13.

continuing. The customer went to a branch of Ashers Baking Company here

:24:14.:24:16.

in Belfast and asked for a cake to be decorated with a picture of the

:24:17.:24:22.

Sesame Street characters Bert and Ernie and a slogan in support of

:24:23.:24:27.

same-sex marriage. They refused that and the company said they did that

:24:28.:24:33.

because it breached the religious beliefs, the deep Christian beliefs,

:24:34.:24:36.

of the owners of the company and they said they did not feel they

:24:37.:24:42.

could fulfil the order. Same-sex marriage is still a contentious

:24:43.:24:47.

issue here because it has never been introduced here and he has been

:24:48.:24:51.

blocked at Stormont by the DUP who are against the introduction of it.

:24:52.:24:55.

We have this battle that has attracted a lot of headlines but the

:24:56.:25:00.

family who own Ashers Baking Company decided they felt, after careful

:25:01.:25:06.

consideration as they called it, they had to go ahead and appeal. A

:25:07.:25:12.

short time ago, Daniel MacArthur gave his reasons for taking this

:25:13.:25:13.

appeal. We're looking forward to having this

:25:14.:25:16.

opportunity to have our case heard by the Lord Chief Justice

:25:17.:25:19.

because we believe the County Court As I said, many times before,

:25:20.:25:21.

we do not discriminate We took issue with the message

:25:22.:25:26.

on the cake and not the customer. As a family, we believe we should

:25:27.:25:34.

retain the right to decline business that would force us to promote

:25:35.:25:38.

a cause with which we disagree. As Christians we can't simply switch

:25:39.:25:44.

off our faith when we enter To be a Christian at all

:25:45.:25:47.

is to strive to live for Christ in every corner of our lives

:25:48.:25:53.

and we served Mr Lee The customer in this case, Gareth

:25:54.:26:07.

Lee, took the case against Ashers with support of the equality

:26:08.:26:11.

commission of Northern Ireland and they were also here inside the

:26:12.:26:16.

courtroom waiting for this hearing. They say they are concerned about

:26:17.:26:21.

some of the ways this has been presented but it has been presented

:26:22.:26:26.

by some as a battle between religious freedom and the right to

:26:27.:26:29.

minorities. The equality commission say they hope the judgment will be

:26:30.:26:32.

held up because they say they are concerned what it would mean for

:26:33.:26:37.

minorities in terms of receiving services from all sorts of companies

:26:38.:26:43.

if it was successful. Thank you. We can't talk now to Peter Tatchell.

:26:44.:26:47.

You supported the customers initially but now the bakery. What

:26:48.:26:53.

happened? Initially I did support the legal action on two grounds. I

:26:54.:26:59.

think they had engaged in false and misleading advertising. Their

:27:00.:27:02.

adverts said they would be willing to bake a cake according to the

:27:03.:27:06.

customer's own design but when Gareth Lee presented his they said

:27:07.:27:11.

no. That was a breach of their promise. Secondly I was really

:27:12.:27:16.

concerned that if Ashers were allowed to get away with it it would

:27:17.:27:20.

open the door to a wider discrimination against other people

:27:21.:27:24.

and communities. On reflection, and it has been a very hard wrestle with

:27:25.:27:28.

my conscience, I feel that, much as I disagree with Ashers over their

:27:29.:27:35.

political views about opposing gay marriage and opposing equal rights

:27:36.:27:41.

for gay people, I think we have took her on the side of freedom of

:27:42.:27:50.

conscience, expression and religion -- err. I am saddened that, as

:27:51.:27:55.

Christians, they support a homophobic position, or a position

:27:56.:27:59.

that many people will see as homophobic because Jesus Christ

:28:00.:28:04.

never condemned homosexuality, there is nothing where he has spoken

:28:05.:28:07.

against same-sex relationships and on top of that, we know that

:28:08.:28:11.

discrimination is not a Christian value. Where does your argument take

:28:12.:28:17.

you? In defending freedom of conscience, expression and religion,

:28:18.:28:22.

does it take you down the path of being on the site of anyone who

:28:23.:28:24.

discriminate against anybody else on those grounds? This case is not

:28:25.:28:31.

about discrimination against people. The message? Yes, for example,

:28:32.:28:40.

Christian run bed and breakfast establishments and Christian civil

:28:41.:28:42.

registrars who have refused to serve gay people are utterly and totally

:28:43.:28:48.

wrong, that is discrimination against people which is unlawful,

:28:49.:28:53.

and rightly so. This case is about discrimination against an idea,

:28:54.:28:55.

namely support for same-sex marriage. That is a very fine line.

:28:56.:29:02.

It is a difficult one. I'm worried that if the verdict stood against

:29:03.:29:08.

Ashers, would this mean that a Muslim printer would have to rubbish

:29:09.:29:15.

the cartoons of Muhammad or a Jewish publisher, would they have to print

:29:16.:29:18.

a book by a Holocaust denier? publisher, would they have to print

:29:19.:29:25.

on the issue of ideas, it can lead you into murky areas where

:29:26.:29:30.

businesses could be forced to publish and facilitate ideas they

:29:31.:29:34.

fundamentally disagree with. Could similar claims not be made on the

:29:35.:29:37.

flip side in terms of how the judgment might be seen and taken if

:29:38.:29:40.

they were to win? That is right, if they win, there's

:29:41.:29:49.

a fear this could open the to wider discrimination, but I think this

:29:50.:29:53.

will be about the issue of ideas and not about discrimination against

:29:54.:29:56.

people, that is an important distinction. I'm not saying that in

:29:57.:30:02.

any circumstances any business should have a right to discriminate

:30:03.:30:05.

against people, it is just about whether they should have a right to

:30:06.:30:07.

discriminate against ideas that whether they should have a right to

:30:08.:30:14.

object to. In making the judgment last year, the judge concluded that

:30:15.:30:18.

facilitate any lawful message, even facilitate any lawful message, even

:30:19.:30:26.

objection to it. Doesn't that cover the areas that you might be

:30:27.:30:28.

concerned about, in that if the message worth inciting violence or

:30:29.:30:32.

hatred, message worth inciting violence or

:30:33.:30:38.

covered by the law? -- worth. There are many bigoted things which are

:30:39.:30:43.

lawful, many people hold quite reprehensible views, but they are

:30:44.:30:50.

not unlawful, but according to this original judgments against Ashers,

:30:51.:30:56.

potentially people that hold lawful but bigoted opinions would be in a

:30:57.:31:02.

position where they could demand that printers and publishers, cake

:31:03.:31:09.

makers, should be required to help facilitate the promotion of these

:31:10.:31:12.

bigoted ideas that they hold, and that is a worrying trend or

:31:13.:31:19.

possibility. We have to accept that in a free society people will hold

:31:20.:31:22.

views that we might in a free society people will hold

:31:23.:31:34.

say that they must be compiled to facilitate ideas which they

:31:35.:31:38.

say that they must be compiled to to -- Compal. -- compelled. You said

:31:39.:31:40.

there was in -- to -- Compal. -- compelled. You said

:31:41.:31:46.

your part, to -- Compal. -- compelled. You said

:31:47.:31:50.

conclusion, after years of fighting for the rights of minorities, how

:31:51.:31:52.

much for the rights of minorities, how

:31:53.:31:54.

the arguments that this centres on? for the rights of minorities, how

:31:55.:32:01.

This is a unique and complex case, it is not about discrimination

:32:02.:32:05.

against people, which is unlawful and rightly so. It is about whether

:32:06.:32:11.

a service provider should be able to refuse to provide a message or an

:32:12.:32:19.

idea that they conscientiously object to and I accept that this is

:32:20.:32:24.

a minefield area. It is not clear-cut. My passion for human

:32:25.:32:31.

rights means that I have two balance the rights of gay people and other

:32:32.:32:37.

minorities against freedom of expression, and my inclination is to

:32:38.:32:42.

go on the side of freedom, even though I fundamentally disagree with

:32:43.:32:46.

go on the side of freedom, even what Ashers stand for, they do not

:32:47.:32:48.

believe that gay people are entitled to equal rights and they think that

:32:49.:32:52.

distillation against gay people is a good thing and I'm shocked they

:32:53.:32:55.

think that, but at the end of the day, they have a right to hold that

:32:56.:33:01.

view -- they think discrimination against gay people is a good thing.

:33:02.:33:05.

Peter, thanks Who are the winners and losers

:33:06.:33:08.

under the Government's Health officials in the US say that

:33:09.:33:12.

a person who contracted the Zika virus, despite not having visited

:33:13.:33:19.

countries affected by the outbreak, probably caught it through sexual

:33:20.:33:22.

contact with their partner. If it's confirmed, it would be

:33:23.:33:25.

the first case in the US of someone infected by the virus without it

:33:26.:33:28.

being transmitted by a mosquito. The news comes as Brazilian health

:33:29.:33:32.

officials say that more than 4000 babies have been born

:33:33.:33:35.

with abnormally small The condition, known

:33:36.:33:37.

as microcephaly, is believed to be Microcephaly is a rare

:33:38.:33:41.

neurological condition. What does it mean for those

:33:42.:33:46.

babies as they grow up? Jayne Freeman's son Robin was born

:33:47.:33:50.

18 years ago with microcephaly. When did you first realise that

:33:51.:34:05.

there was an issue with Robin's development? When he was born he was

:34:06.:34:12.

small and he seemed pretty normal, in development, but as he got older

:34:13.:34:19.

he did not get the milestones we expected and all the other children

:34:20.:34:27.

were passing him by and he stayed. He did not regress and he did not go

:34:28.:34:32.

any further, it was as if his brain stopped and we did not understand

:34:33.:34:36.

why. He was diagnosed with microcephaly and I then understood

:34:37.:34:39.

that his brain had stopped growing so he could not develop further.

:34:40.:34:44.

Microcephaly is in the news because of the link with the Zika virus, do

:34:45.:34:48.

you know why Robin has microcephaly? No, we don't. I had difficulties in

:34:49.:34:55.

my pregnancy and I had a couple of blood transfusions during the

:34:56.:35:00.

Caesarean, but I have no idea why he has got it. Robin, what is the

:35:01.:35:10.

impact on you? The main thing is academically, because of my

:35:11.:35:14.

microcephaly I had dyslexia might as well, and I'm very clumsy, and very

:35:15.:35:20.

forgetful. -- dyslexia as well. I get constant headaches. Everyday,

:35:21.:35:28.

just a headache. Do you take certain medication? Anything else apart from

:35:29.:35:36.

normal headache pills? No, there's nothing I can do to get rid of it,

:35:37.:35:40.

it is always going to be there and I have got used to it. Do you feel

:35:41.:35:45.

that this is something that people are aware of around you? Do you make

:35:46.:35:51.

people aware? Or do you try to get on as normal? I just tried to get

:35:52.:35:58.

on, it is there, it is something I have to do -- I just try. Whether

:35:59.:36:05.

difficulties for you when he was growing up -- word their

:36:06.:36:14.

difficulties. Yes, when he was first diagnose, I went and googled it, it

:36:15.:36:20.

was the worse case and arias, life limiting, and we were shocked and

:36:21.:36:24.

upset -- it was the worst case scenario. But now we have other

:36:25.:36:29.

parents with us and we are supporting each other. We have seen

:36:30.:36:34.

each other's children for the beautiful children they are and we

:36:35.:36:40.

are glad in a way that microcephaly is in the headlines, but this is a

:36:41.:36:43.

double edged sword, we are also getting this information. --

:36:44.:36:51.

misinformation. And we also get roles. What has been going on with

:36:52.:36:59.

trolls? People have been posting nasty pictures to our website, which

:37:00.:37:03.

they have mopped up, comments saying that your children have got a

:37:04.:37:06.

disease and you should put them down. -- mopped. Unfortunately,

:37:07.:37:13.

yesterday and the day before, one of the people in our group had her

:37:14.:37:17.

pictures stolen and they have been put on an anti-vaccine website

:37:18.:37:25.

saying this is what happens if you do not vaccinate your babies. What

:37:26.:37:31.

do you think of that, Robin? People are ignorant and they need to

:37:32.:37:34.

understand that microcephaly, you are not going to catch it.

:37:35.:37:39.

Basically, you are born with it, it will be there. You can't walk up to

:37:40.:37:44.

someone and automatically get microcephaly. People need to know

:37:45.:37:47.

this. Thanks for joining us. It's now emerging that telling

:37:48.:37:56.

people to avoid travelling to regions affected by the Zika

:37:57.:37:59.

virus may not be enough As I mentioned earlier,

:38:00.:38:01.

US health officials believe someone in Texas may have been infected

:38:02.:38:08.

simply by having sexual contact with a partner who had just come

:38:09.:38:11.

back from Venezuela. Our health correspondent

:38:12.:38:13.

James Gallagher is here. This would be the first case? The

:38:14.:38:23.

first case in this outbreak, but there have been reported cases in

:38:24.:38:26.

the past, but this seems to be something which is very rare. We

:38:27.:38:32.

have only really seen the Zika infections where the mosquito is and

:38:33.:38:36.

it has not spread outside of those regions, but this is something which

:38:37.:38:39.

health officials are trying to get to the bottom of. How common is

:38:40.:38:44.

this, how long after the infection can a person continued to spread the

:38:45.:38:50.

virus? These are big questions which have not been answered. It will take

:38:51.:38:54.

time to find out answers like this, but what is the best guidance?

:38:55.:39:01.

Someone from Public Health England spoke about this and said at the

:39:02.:39:05.

moment the best advice is to say 28 days with precautions. They said use

:39:06.:39:12.

a, done for the month after you get back from an infected country, if

:39:13.:39:16.

you did not even any symptoms at all, but six months if you developed

:39:17.:39:26.

a fever -- use a, done for the month after you get back. This takes it

:39:27.:39:34.

back from the parameters of a particular country. Yes, it brings

:39:35.:39:41.

into question the possibilities of transmission, it into northern

:39:42.:39:44.

Europe, where the mosquitoes do not exist at the moment. There is the

:39:45.:39:48.

potential for spread into other countries, but we do not know how

:39:49.:39:52.

easily it can spread. We know you can recover very quickly from a Zika

:39:53.:39:57.

virus infection, but how long you remain infectious for is a big

:39:58.:40:00.

question. In this very short period of time, that will not be a problem

:40:01.:40:05.

for other countries, the virus will not be able to spread very quickly.

:40:06.:40:14.

How easily could it spread? These questions that need answering, but

:40:15.:40:19.

we don't have them. That is intimate contact, but what about lesser

:40:20.:40:23.

contact Weston not are the questions over whether it could be an airborne

:40:24.:40:30.

virus? -- what about lesser contact? There has been nothing about this.

:40:31.:40:34.

Nothing like measles, no suggestion of that, with Zika, and in the

:40:35.:40:40.

overwhelming majority of cases it needs a mosquito to bite one of us

:40:41.:40:45.

and then by the other to spread the virus itself, sexual transmission

:40:46.:40:49.

seems to be very rare, there has been no suggestion of breathing and

:40:50.:40:54.

sneezing, an airborne type of transmission. Thanks for joining us.

:40:55.:41:00.

Many people getting in touch regarding the EU proposals. Not many

:41:01.:41:07.

of you seem to be convinced by the proposals. Rob says, David Cameron

:41:08.:41:10.

has delivered what he proposals. Rob says, David Cameron

:41:11.:41:14.

achieve, totally unconvincing, and who decided what he would and

:41:15.:41:22.

written up -- who decided what he would demand? Graham says David

:41:23.:41:27.

Cameron has achieved nothing, the reality is that Europe has not

:41:28.:41:30.

agreed to a single one of his dumb arms on the basis of this agreement,

:41:31.:41:37.

-- has not agreed to a single one of his demands, and on the basis of the

:41:38.:41:40.

agreement the only logical conclusion is to leave. Keep your

:41:41.:41:43.

thoughts coming in. Madonna goes to court today

:41:44.:41:45.

in an attempt for force ex-husband Guy Ritchie to return

:41:46.:41:50.

their son, Rocco, to the US. I was looking at the cloud

:41:51.:42:04.

formations yesterday after our chat. I did not spot the beautiful ones

:42:05.:42:10.

that you were showing us. It has been very interesting, we

:42:11.:42:12.

that you were showing us. It has such a variety of weather, and the

:42:13.:42:17.

reason is, we have a weather front, coming south, and this weather front

:42:18.:42:18.

has produced rain, sleet and coming south, and this weather front

:42:19.:42:24.

it is continuing to weaken, and behind it we are dragging in colder

:42:25.:42:28.

air and clearer skies. I thought you might like to see pictures that

:42:29.:42:30.

people have sent. We might like to see pictures that

:42:31.:42:36.

Scotland. The weather front has cleared Scotland, this is in the

:42:37.:42:42.

Outer Hebrides, a lovely clear sky, but a very cold start. This picture

:42:43.:42:47.

was taken in Northern Ireland. The weather front had gone. The

:42:48.:42:54.

beautiful sunrise is gorgeous. As the weather front went south, this

:42:55.:42:57.

is a picture from Derbyshire, we had snow here. Quite high levels,

:42:58.:43:04.

admittedly. Staffordshire, a similar story, the weather front slowly

:43:05.:43:07.

moving south, and quite misty conditions. We had every kind of

:43:08.:43:15.

whether going. Ahead of it all, in Wales, it was a cold start and

:43:16.:43:20.

frosty, and we are starting to see some snow, and further south in

:43:21.:43:25.

frosty, and we are starting to see Surrey, it was a beautiful start to

:43:26.:43:27.

the day, but now we have cloud spilling down. As the weather front

:43:28.:43:33.

bumps into the milder air, temperatures are now rising and it

:43:34.:43:38.

will just be rain or patchy rain. The colder air behind it. Do you

:43:39.:43:42.

like it when it is cold at this time of year? I do, as long as it is nice

:43:43.:43:49.

and bright. I agree. Keep the seasons as they are. It is cold

:43:50.:43:54.

today, but through the rest of the week, we have the milder air once

:43:55.:43:59.

again. I won't complain about that. We are back in blue once again. The

:44:00.:44:04.

weather is all over the place. It keeps us on our toes. Thank you.

:44:05.:44:11.

Today the band of rain will move to the south, taking the cloud with it,

:44:12.:44:17.

still gusting winds, it has to be said. They will ease through the

:44:18.:44:23.

rest of the day. There is a mixture of sunny spells and showers behind

:44:24.:44:28.

it, the showers will be scattered. Some will be in Northern Ireland,

:44:29.:44:30.

but equally some sunshine, and Some will be in Northern Ireland,

:44:31.:44:35.

across the North, northern Scotland, in the hills there will be a wintry

:44:36.:44:37.

mixture, but at lower levels we are mixture, but at lower levels we are

:44:38.:44:40.

looking at sunny skies and nowhere near as windy as it has been. It

:44:41.:44:45.

will not feel as cold as a result, and the

:44:46.:44:46.

will not feel as cold as a result, Northern England, heading to the

:44:47.:44:48.

Midlands. Northern England, heading to the

:44:49.:44:52.

over parts of East Anglia, Essex and Northern England, heading to the

:44:53.:44:58.

Kent, there might be some showers in they will be few and far between.

:44:59.:45:03.

The same for South West England and Wales. Most of us will miss the

:45:04.:45:08.

showers, and there will also be sunshine. Overnight, showers ahead

:45:09.:45:14.

of the weather front, it brings in the rain, bumping into the cold air,

:45:15.:45:19.

there will be hills snow from that. Behind that, things begin to improve

:45:20.:45:23.

in terms of the temperatures. Cold in the north-east. Milder conditions

:45:24.:45:31.

come in, but right behind the front, temperatures in the south-west, way

:45:32.:45:35.

up on what we have seen this morning, very different feel to the

:45:36.:45:40.

day. The rain moves into the North Sea, replaced by another band coming

:45:41.:45:45.

from the West. There will be cloud around Samarra, the heaviest rain

:45:46.:45:49.

will be in the north, it will be patchy as we move around England and

:45:50.:45:54.

Wales -- around tomorrow. Temperatures in double figures,

:45:55.:45:59.

apart from North East Scotland. On Friday, bright skies to start in the

:46:00.:46:03.

ease, but there will be cloud as we are pumping up south-westerly winds.

:46:04.:46:09.

That is the milder air and the temperatures would get into double

:46:10.:46:14.

figures. There will be some murky weather at the coast, but the other

:46:15.:46:17.

thing we have is an Atlantic front and that will produce rain. It is

:46:18.:46:23.

not moving quickly, the rain will be heavy and persistent, and behind

:46:24.:46:25.

that the temperatures will start to dip. As we head into the weekend, it

:46:26.:46:31.

takes some time before the front clears away from the south is,

:46:32.:46:35.

probably Saturday morning, and then we have more pressure and more

:46:36.:46:39.

France coming in for the weekend. It will be wet and windy at times this

:46:40.:46:41.

weekend. -- fronts. Hello it's Wednesday,

:46:42.:46:45.

it's ten o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria, welcome

:46:46.:46:47.

to the programme if you've Will the rest of Europe get behind

:46:48.:46:49.

David Cameron's package of reforms We'll be hearing from politicians

:46:50.:46:56.

being asked to back the deal and we've been hearing

:46:57.:47:00.

what voters here think. We see that when we trade with

:47:01.:47:10.

European countries we are able to do so quickly and easily to bring their

:47:11.:47:14.

local expertise here to London to build better businesses. The problem

:47:15.:47:19.

we have at the moment is the uncontrolled speed at which we have

:47:20.:47:22.

migration and we have no control on our borders.

:47:23.:47:23.

This hit-and-run driver was caught on camera accelerating

:47:24.:47:25.

The video clearly shows the car number plate -

:47:26.:47:30.

so why can't the culprit be prosecuted?

:47:31.:47:32.

Madonna is in court to try and force her son to come home

:47:33.:47:37.

to New York but with 15-year-old Rocco wanting to stay put in London

:47:38.:47:40.

with Guy Ritchie, will she get her way?

:47:41.:47:51.

David Cameron will answer questions in the Commons on the deal he's

:47:52.:47:57.

negotiated on Britain's EU membership.

:47:58.:47:59.

Details of the draft offer are also being debated

:48:00.:48:01.

The President of the European Commission says

:48:02.:48:05.

the proposal is a fair settlement for Britain.

:48:06.:48:11.

The settlement that has been proposed is fair for the UK and fair

:48:12.:48:18.

for the other 27 member states. It is also fair for the European

:48:19.:48:21.

Parliament. Health officials are trying

:48:22.:48:22.

to confirm if an American with the Zika virus contracted it

:48:23.:48:25.

through sexual contact. It is thought a patient in the state

:48:26.:48:39.

of Texas became infected through sexual contact with a partner who

:48:40.:48:40.

had been to Venezuela. The discovery of a man's body

:48:41.:48:42.

on a cliff edge in Anglesey is being linked to a triple murder

:48:43.:48:45.

investigation near Leeds. The bodies of a woman and two

:48:46.:48:47.

children were found at a house The internet company, Yahoo,

:48:48.:48:50.

is to cut its global workforce by 15 percent - about 1700

:48:51.:48:54.

people - after reporting a quarterly loss

:48:55.:48:56.

of almost ?3 billion. The company is losing online

:48:57.:48:58.

advertising to the likes of Google These pictures from China show

:48:59.:49:01.

a backlog of 50,000 rail passengers stranded in the south

:49:02.:49:09.

of the country. The authorities have been laying

:49:10.:49:13.

on extra trains to try It's been caused by bad weather

:49:14.:49:15.

that's hampering the country's busiest travel period -

:49:16.:49:20.

the Chinese New Year getaway. Let's catch up with

:49:21.:49:23.

all the sport now. Let's join John who can tell us

:49:24.:49:26.

about a rather special It was and we can show it to you it

:49:27.:49:37.

is turning into a remarkable story, Leicester City's season is becoming

:49:38.:49:42.

the stuff of Hollywood and Jamie Vardy is threatening to achieve what

:49:43.:49:47.

nobody thought possible at the start of this campaign. His two goals last

:49:48.:49:51.

night, one of which was a stunning volley in aid to Noh victory over

:49:52.:49:55.

Liverpool, sees Leicester maintained their lead at the top of the league

:49:56.:50:03.

-- 2-0 victory. This was his first goal, worthy of a look. A stunning

:50:04.:50:09.

volley from 30 yards out. A great goal. He is now the top scorer in

:50:10.:50:15.

the league on 18 goals and it is efforts like that that have taken

:50:16.:50:19.

Leicester to the top of the table. He was signed for just ?1 million

:50:20.:50:21.

from non-league Fleetwood He was signed for just ?1 million

:50:22.:50:26.

and he is now in line for a place He was signed for just ?1 million

:50:27.:50:29.

Roy Hodgson's England squad at the European Championship. You can see

:50:30.:50:34.

how pleased he was. This is what he and his manager thought about it. It

:50:35.:50:40.

was unbelievable how Riyad Mahrez crowned with the long ball Vardy and

:50:41.:50:46.

Vardy at the time to look at the keeper out of the goal and score a

:50:47.:50:50.

fantastic goal. I was looking all game and he was quite far off his

:50:51.:50:54.

line so when he's played it through and it's bounced quite high, I've

:50:55.:50:57.

took my chance and luckily it's gone over the top of him. It was not the

:50:58.:51:03.

only Premier League game last night. We will have reaction on all of

:51:04.:51:07.

those matches on the BBC sport website. After the test victory

:51:08.:51:11.

against South Africa England will focus on the shorter format of the

:51:12.:51:15.

game, letting in the T20 World Cup in India next month. Their one-day

:51:16.:51:19.

series gets underway today in Bloemfontein. They will see if Jason

:51:20.:51:23.

Roy is fit enough to open the batting before naming their team.

:51:24.:51:27.

Eoin Morgan is keen to stress how far the team have progressed since

:51:28.:51:29.

the World Cup last year when they failed to get out of their group. I

:51:30.:51:34.

think it is a bit scary to think, where we are at the moment, we have

:51:35.:51:39.

come up against three very different sides, two World Cup finalists and

:51:40.:51:45.

Pakistan away and two of the three series we have won. South Africa

:51:46.:51:48.

will pose a very difficult challenge in their own backyard but our

:51:49.:51:52.

objective is for the tour are to learn as much as we can and continue

:51:53.:51:58.

to do so as we have in the past eight months. It was a great week at

:51:59.:52:01.

the Australian open for British tennis, Jamie Murray took the

:52:02.:52:05.

doubles title, Gordon Reid the wheelchair title. Britain die in the

:52:06.:52:12.

Fed cup competition this year and Katie Swann will become the youngest

:52:13.:52:16.

player in the petition at the age of just 16. She replaces Johanna Konta

:52:17.:52:22.

who has withdrawn through illness. They begin their group games in the

:52:23.:52:29.

competition tomorrow. And we love a sporting match up, pushing ourselves

:52:30.:52:33.

to the limit of enjoyment and a true test of power and strength and we

:52:34.:52:36.

might have stumbled across the perfect challenge of man against

:52:37.:52:41.

machine. This is Bath Rugby who packed down to take on a Formula 1

:52:42.:52:45.

car at their training base. It does not sound like a fair contest.

:52:46.:52:52.

Daniel Ricciardo's Red Bull car can reach 200 mph but it looks like they

:52:53.:52:55.

are holding their own which is quite impressive but I think they might

:52:56.:53:01.

need some new tires on the car! As we mentioned, Gordon Reid, we will

:53:02.:53:06.

be speaking to him at about 10:30am on the programme.

:53:07.:53:16.

Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme

:53:17.:53:18.

if you've just joined us, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC

:53:19.:53:21.

News Channel until 11am this morning.

:53:22.:53:23.

So, David Cameron will brief Parliament today on proposals

:53:24.:53:25.

to alter the terms of Britian's membership of the European Union -

:53:26.:53:28.

but are his proposals enough for you?

:53:29.:53:29.

The majority of you are not convinced. Doug has said that he is

:53:30.:53:41.

pro-Europe but will be voting to leave the EU on the single issue of

:53:42.:53:47.

immigration. I believe in some immigration of people with skills

:53:48.:53:50.

and knowledge that will benefit the country but I don't believe in mass

:53:51.:53:55.

immigration of Russ has said, Cameron appears to have a stay of

:53:56.:53:58.

execution but we are still not in control of our borders. Richard says

:53:59.:54:01.

that Texts will be charged

:54:02.:54:08.

at the standard network rate. Wherever you are you can

:54:09.:54:11.

watch our programme online, via the bbc news app

:54:12.:54:13.

or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria. for an in-out referendum,

:54:14.:54:29.

probably in the summer. about the draft deal

:54:30.:54:34.

later and members of the European Parliament

:54:35.:54:36.

are also debating the plans. European Commission President

:54:37.:54:39.

Jean-Claude Juncker says the package of measures is fair for Britain

:54:40.:54:41.

and the other 27 members of the EU. I've always said I wanted

:54:42.:54:48.

the UK to remain a member of the European Union

:54:49.:54:50.

on the basis of a fair deal. The settlement that has been

:54:51.:54:55.

proposed is fair for the UK fair and fair for the other

:54:56.:55:00.

27 member states. It is also fair for

:55:01.:55:03.

the European Parliament. The European Parliament has

:55:04.:55:07.

a key say in the process, I would add to this

:55:08.:55:09.

that the European Union was based there are certain lines that can't

:55:10.:55:48.

be crossed because that would mean And freedom of movement was one

:55:49.:55:53.

of those principles. And it needs to be

:55:54.:55:58.

taken into account. I am an Australian who lived

:55:59.:56:02.

in Denmark for ten years and the UK I see all of the benefits of the EU

:56:03.:56:05.

and my heart says stay in. Because there are travel

:56:06.:56:10.

opportunities and commercial opportunities and technology

:56:11.:56:11.

collaboration to solve big problems. And it's all to do with the elephant

:56:12.:56:13.

in the room which is still that But what do politicians from other

:56:14.:56:18.

countries in the European Union think of the draft

:56:19.:56:22.

deal on the table? About the agreement I could say

:56:23.:56:27.

confused from a legal base I welcome it and I am

:56:28.:56:40.

ready to accept it. I hope we are going to use this

:56:41.:56:59.

opportunity to make Europe stronger, more united and more able to meet

:57:00.:57:02.

the challenges of today rather We support demands of Great Britain

:57:03.:57:05.

sovereignty but we are very confused and very critical about cutting

:57:06.:57:18.

of social benefits. I am very optimistic

:57:19.:57:25.

about the ongoing negotiations, I would like to see the UK remaining

:57:26.:57:28.

a member the EU. Well, this letter is not surprising

:57:29.:57:35.

and is not going in the right direction but after all

:57:36.:57:38.

the United Kingdom has to vote on whether or not its citizens think

:57:39.:57:41.

that they are better MEPs will air their views

:57:42.:57:43.

on migration and the UK's upcoming in-or-out EU referendum

:57:44.:58:00.

in a three hour debate ahead of the European Council summit

:58:01.:58:02.

on 18th and 19th February. Joining us from Strasbourg

:58:03.:58:10.

is Ska Keller, an MEP What do you think about the

:58:11.:58:23.

renegotiation? I think what has been the outcome of the deal and not

:58:24.:58:27.

surprising, as was mentioned earlier, Cameron has his victory, we

:58:28.:58:34.

are not necessarily happy about all the things proposed but this is not

:58:35.:58:40.

what the referendum is about. The UK will decide whether to stay in the

:58:41.:58:45.

European Union or not and that is on many more issues. It is the whole

:58:46.:58:49.

question of whether we can face the challenges of our times and future

:58:50.:58:54.

times when we are all together or the UK all on its own and from my

:58:55.:59:00.

perspective, being on the side of those who might be left alone, I

:59:01.:59:04.

would be very excited if the UK left. You said there were elements

:59:05.:59:07.

you were unhappy about, what in particular? One might have to look

:59:08.:59:17.

at whether this is actually a benefit for the citizens of the

:59:18.:59:21.

European union which includes the citizens of the UK as well. One of

:59:22.:59:27.

the main promises was also more subsidiarity, bringing power to

:59:28.:59:34.

people, as it should be but still the European Parliament, for

:59:35.:59:39.

example, where all citizens are represented including the UK, does

:59:40.:59:43.

not have hardly any say about the proposals put on the table. At the

:59:44.:59:48.

referendum is not about the letter between Cameron and Donald Tusk, it

:59:49.:59:54.

is not about the fundamental question about whether UK citizens

:59:55.:59:59.

want to engage in changing the EU in a better way and whether they think

:00:00.:00:03.

they are better off within the EU and of course it is up to UK

:00:04.:00:07.

citizens to decide that but from our point of view, it would be or I

:00:08.:00:14.

would be grateful if the UK decided to stay with us and help us change

:00:15.:00:19.

the European Union together because there is so much the UK has brought

:00:20.:00:24.

to the EU and all of us together, culturally and politically dumb even

:00:25.:00:27.

the language. It would be very sad if they left.

:00:28.:00:31.

He said you would prefer the UK to stay and to help change the European

:00:32.:00:40.

Union together -- you said. Do you think there are areas which need to

:00:41.:00:45.

be reformed? The reforms that we need in the European Union is to

:00:46.:00:53.

make it more democratic and to have people and what they want moderately

:00:54.:00:57.

reflected at the European level, we have European citizens initiative --

:00:58.:01:02.

and what they want more reflected. We also need to get national

:01:03.:01:08.

parliaments more on-board and to encourage citizens involvement and

:01:09.:01:11.

we need to make sure that the European Union is of benefit to its

:01:12.:01:18.

citizens, and that social issues are a crucial part, and also

:01:19.:01:21.

environmental standards, consumer protection, these things which make

:01:22.:01:25.

the single market possible in the first place. They need to be

:01:26.:01:29.

strengthened and we need to make sure that we are fit to face the

:01:30.:01:34.

challenges we are having, for example, the refugee crisis which we

:01:35.:01:37.

have at the moment, we can only handle that at the European Union

:01:38.:01:44.

level. Single member states have trouble facing this challenge, but

:01:45.:01:47.

it would be much easier if we were all in this together. What is your

:01:48.:01:55.

view on the renegotiation? You are an MEP. For us in Estonia it is

:01:56.:02:03.

important that the United Kingdom stays in the European Union, because

:02:04.:02:09.

if you look at the moment, all the critical situation in the European

:02:10.:02:16.

Union, it is important that the UK stays in the EU. What concerns the

:02:17.:02:22.

negotiations, of course all member states should be ready to assist the

:02:23.:02:30.

UK to find a new balance so the majority of UK citizens will feel

:02:31.:02:37.

also good in the future as members of the European Union. Do you think

:02:38.:02:43.

what has been agreed in the renegotiation will change much? I'm

:02:44.:02:52.

quite convinced that the outcome of talks will also change some issues

:02:53.:02:57.

in the European Union. It is only the beginning of talks and the

:02:58.:03:03.

European Union plays its role here. But the concerns, what the UK has,

:03:04.:03:10.

it is also a concern for other member states, so I'm quite sure

:03:11.:03:19.

that the outcome of the talks will make changes for the European Union.

:03:20.:03:28.

What are the areas that other countries are concerned about? One

:03:29.:03:36.

of the issues is the role of member states, including parliaments of

:03:37.:03:43.

member states, it is one of the issues where I feel there is need

:03:44.:03:49.

for some changes. But of course, also issues which at the moment is

:03:50.:03:58.

very actual in the UK, the social reforms and social reforms are also

:03:59.:04:02.

what concern immigrant workers. It looks like it is not only the issue

:04:03.:04:08.

for the United Kingdom, but also for some other countries. MEP for

:04:09.:04:16.

Estonia, thanks for joining us. Keep on getting in touch, let us know

:04:17.:04:17.

what you think about the deal. We'll be finding out why this hit

:04:18.:04:19.

and run driver who was caught accelerating into a cyclist

:04:20.:04:26.

can't be prosecuted. One of the government's

:04:27.:04:29.

main welfare reforms - the introduction

:04:30.:04:31.

of Universal Credit - will, on average, leave

:04:32.:04:32.

working families worse off, according to the Institute

:04:33.:04:34.

for Fiscal Studies. But their analysis suggests that it

:04:35.:04:39.

will encourage some people to find Universal Credit is being introduced

:04:40.:04:42.

to simplify the benefits system - by merging things like tax credits,

:04:43.:04:48.

housing benefits and job-seekers The IFS research suggests

:04:49.:04:50.

the changes will see Around 2.1 million working

:04:51.:04:57.

households will lose out But on the flip side 1.8 million

:04:58.:05:03.

working households will gain Of those out of work,

:05:04.:05:09.

1.1 million will lose out, But some unemployed people

:05:10.:05:16.

will gain from the changes, with 500,000 households gaining

:05:17.:05:24.

an average of ?1,000 a year. Those relatively likely to gain

:05:25.:05:29.

include low-earning households in rented accommodation and

:05:30.:05:33.

one-earner couples with children. Lone parents with a job,

:05:34.:05:38.

those with assets or unearned income, and two-earner couples

:05:39.:05:41.

are more likely to lose. Well, here to explain

:05:42.:05:43.

is Andrew Hood from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, along

:05:44.:05:49.

with Kathleen Kerridge, a mum whose husband works full-time

:05:50.:05:52.

- they receive a combination of tax Janette Davey, who

:05:53.:05:55.

receives some benefits. She's a single mum who works

:05:56.:06:05.

part-time as a secondary school teacher and runs two

:06:06.:06:07.

start-up businesses. And Mark Garnier, the Conservative

:06:08.:06:09.

MP who sits on the House of Commons' What are the changes first of all?

:06:10.:06:22.

It is about simple occasion. The structure of universal credit is

:06:23.:06:24.

quite simple, each family has the amount they can earn before the

:06:25.:06:27.

benefit will start to be withdrawn, that varies by family type, and

:06:28.:06:33.

beyond that the benefit is withdrawn at 65p for every additional pound of

:06:34.:06:37.

earnings. This is also about saving money. When it is fully in place it

:06:38.:06:44.

will reduce benefit spending by ?2.7 billion a year and that is on top of

:06:45.:06:47.

the other cuts, like the four-year freeze to most benefit rates. We

:06:48.:06:54.

have spoken about the winners and losers, can you tell us more about

:06:55.:07:01.

who will be hit the most? One of the groups hit hardest by universal

:07:02.:07:04.

credit in its current form, working lone parents, on average those

:07:05.:07:10.

receiving benefits, that will be replaced by universal credit, they

:07:11.:07:14.

will be ?1000 a year worse off, and that is because the government has

:07:15.:07:18.

repeatedly cut how much you can earn if you are a lone parent before

:07:19.:07:21.

universal credit will start to be withdrawn and that is why they lose.

:07:22.:07:26.

On the other hand, if you look at one earner couples with

:07:27.:07:33.

On the other hand, if you look at year. Under the current system they

:07:34.:07:45.

On the other hand, if you look at people losing, working lone

:07:46.:07:50.

On the other hand, if you look at and two earner couples, how

:07:51.:07:53.

On the other hand, if you look at that fit together? Universal credit

:07:54.:07:56.

does not do much in terms of the incentive to work at the moment, but

:07:57.:07:59.

it reduces the number of people who have very weak incentives. There are

:08:00.:08:05.

600,000 people who if they earn an extra pounds they lose more than 90p

:08:06.:08:08.

of that in tax and withdrawn benefit. Under universal credit that

:08:09.:08:14.

is not possible, everyone will keep 23p of every pound they earn.

:08:15.:08:21.

Kathleen, you are part of a couple, your husband earns an URA stay at

:08:22.:08:31.

home mother. I'm a writer. -- and you are a stay at home mother. How

:08:32.:08:36.

are you likely to be affected? It looks like we will be one of the

:08:37.:08:40.

families that gain on paper, but in reality, with this government so

:08:41.:08:45.

far, everything they have said we have learned to take with a pinch of

:08:46.:08:48.

salt, the instability and fee is always hanging over you, what is

:08:49.:08:54.

going to come next? -- fear. You should be ?500 a year better off. I

:08:55.:09:00.

should be. If it turns out like that, that makes a big difference to

:09:01.:09:05.

you? Yes, it will. Every penny makes a big difference to me and thousands

:09:06.:09:09.

of families like mine. Where you work hard and you are scrimping and

:09:10.:09:14.

saving and paying high rents and taxes and everything else, so every

:09:15.:09:17.

penny you gain helps. Janette, URA single working man, you

:09:18.:09:34.

should the ?1000 worse off according to predictions -- you should be.

:09:35.:09:39.

That is not encouraging, considering how hard many single parents work,

:09:40.:09:45.

in fact all parents work very hard, and so to hear that we will be worse

:09:46.:09:50.

off is not exactly an incentive. To hear that you are probably better

:09:51.:09:54.

off not to work, although obviously what the report does not mention is

:09:55.:09:58.

that there will be conditions, so you have to work a minimum amount of

:09:59.:10:03.

hours anyway. You have not got an option really of not working,

:10:04.:10:07.

because then you will be sanctioned. You are in a lose lose situation, I

:10:08.:10:11.

feel, unless you are earning a huge amount of money. Mark Carney A, Tory

:10:12.:10:17.

MP, why should a single working mother like be worse off? It is

:10:18.:10:23.

important to take the universal credit in the context of the wider

:10:24.:10:27.

things that the government is doing. Taxes are actually coming down,

:10:28.:10:30.

despite what Kathleen said, for single mothers and single parents,

:10:31.:10:34.

we are introducing free childcare, a number of things we are trying to do

:10:35.:10:37.

for people who are self-employed, as well. We are trying to help them set

:10:38.:10:42.

up their businesses and we are also bringing in a national minimum

:10:43.:10:45.

living wage which will increase the rate at which people work over and

:10:46.:10:50.

above the inflationary rises in the living wage. There are a raft of

:10:51.:10:55.

things we are doing which need to be taken into context with what is

:10:56.:10:57.

being done with universal credit and it will be interesting to hear

:10:58.:11:04.

whether Andrew has done this on the universal credit in isolation or

:11:05.:11:07.

whether they are taking into account the wider effects of the other help

:11:08.:11:10.

that the government is trying to give. Bear in mind, we have created

:11:11.:11:16.

far more jobs in the economy but 2.7 million new jobs, and on top of

:11:17.:11:20.

that, we are finding that the problem we have the economy, we have

:11:21.:11:24.

too few skills for the jobs which are available. We are trying to help

:11:25.:11:30.

people to get into those skilled jobs by having 3000 more

:11:31.:11:34.

apprenticeships. Andrew, what is your answer? Mark is right, for the

:11:35.:11:43.

report the focus was looking at the impact of universal credit itself,

:11:44.:11:46.

but previous work on the ISS has said things like the living wage

:11:47.:11:50.

will not compensate low income families for the impact of other

:11:51.:11:54.

benefit cuts -- previous work from the ISS. The OBR thinks that the

:11:55.:12:00.

national living wage might increase earnings by about ?4 billion, but

:12:01.:12:06.

the government is as it is planning a ?12 billion cut to benefits so low

:12:07.:12:10.

income families will be worse off. It is not clear-cut say that someone

:12:11.:12:14.

like Janette will be worse off, though? She will get help with

:12:15.:12:20.

childcare. On average, working lone parents will be ?1000 worse off in a

:12:21.:12:25.

world with universal credit than without, but other changes might

:12:26.:12:32.

boost or reduce incomes of people like Janette, and the other thing to

:12:33.:12:36.

say, we are not taking into account other benefit cuts. We have a

:12:37.:12:41.

statement from the Department for Work and Pensions. It says:

:12:42.:13:09.

Mark, that is the point you were making an Andrew has responded to

:13:10.:13:19.

that. -- am. If there are working people out there who feel they are

:13:20.:13:22.

being left worse off as a result of changes that are being made to the

:13:23.:13:28.

tax credits or anything else, that potentially sends a message to them

:13:29.:13:32.

that when they hear the government say they are all about supporting

:13:33.:13:36.

people who are doing the right thing, they might feel that is a

:13:37.:13:40.

sham? That is a reasonable comment to make, but having said that, it is

:13:41.:13:46.

worth going back to the beginning of the process, of the in work tax

:13:47.:13:52.

credits and the various benefits, and erase as an extent you have got

:13:53.:13:55.

to go back to when William Beveridge wrote his report -- actually to an

:13:56.:14:03.

extent. Way back when. Part of that, as a society we feel we need to help

:14:04.:14:06.

those people who are struggling for one reason or another and everyone

:14:07.:14:10.

would agree with that. When Beveridge introduced the proposals

:14:11.:14:13.

for the welfare state he made it clear that the welfare state was not

:14:14.:14:17.

about providing a alternative to hard work. What has happened, over

:14:18.:14:25.

60 years since then, the benefits that have been paid out have

:14:26.:14:29.

increased in real terms by about 50%, and we have got to this

:14:30.:14:33.

situation where it becomes very difficult to move from being out of

:14:34.:14:41.

work into work, and you actually, as the IFS report says, and they are a

:14:42.:14:44.

very intelligent group, but this report highlights the fact that for

:14:45.:14:49.

each extra pound you earn you only see 10p of that, and so we have got

:14:50.:14:52.

ourselves fundamentally into a very peculiar place. People are relying

:14:53.:14:59.

increasingly on benefits. I do accept that with all of these

:15:00.:15:05.

changes, inevitably it will be a very unfortunate situation where

:15:06.:15:08.

some people will be slightly worse off than others and others will

:15:09.:15:14.

benefit, but we are trying to move to a very fundamental change from a

:15:15.:15:18.

system which fundamentally is broken and fundamentally is costing a huge

:15:19.:15:21.

amount of money, and fundamentally is this incentivising many people to

:15:22.:15:27.

work into a system where it will work better for everybody out there.

:15:28.:15:31.

Ultimately people are better when they are in work, they are healthier

:15:32.:15:34.

and happier and they feel they are contributing to society, but people

:15:35.:15:38.

who are unemployed and who can't find work and who are struggling

:15:39.:15:41.

they tend to have mental health issues, tend to be depressed, ten to

:15:42.:15:45.

feel they are not part of society around them, and this is part of a

:15:46.:15:50.

much bigger picture we are trying to achieve as this government, to make

:15:51.:15:53.

people feel worthwhile and take control of their lives, rather than

:15:54.:15:55.

being clients of the state. And a final question on Europe. You

:15:56.:16:07.

did warn last year before the EU referendum that the prospect of it

:16:08.:16:12.

was hitting investment. Art you glad we are almost there? -- are you. I

:16:13.:16:19.

am, the sooner we get to the other side of this the better. I was

:16:20.:16:23.

looking at some numbers this morning to do with household vulnerability

:16:24.:16:29.

and households are still very vulnerable as a result of the credit

:16:30.:16:34.

bubble before the 2008 financial crisis. Households are going to be

:16:35.:16:41.

the losers if we get this experiment with politics wrong. I think leaving

:16:42.:16:47.

the EU is an experiment in politics. It potentially increases the risk to

:16:48.:16:50.

household far too much. Businesses need surety, they need to know what

:16:51.:16:54.

the relationship will be between Britain and Europe. If we vote to

:16:55.:17:02.

come out and we have a two-year protracted process of extricating

:17:03.:17:05.

ourselves from Europe, businesses will be reluctant to invest, that

:17:06.:17:10.

will hit households. I'm keen that we vote to stay in. Do you think the

:17:11.:17:15.

renegotiation was a success? I think so in general it is always going to

:17:16.:17:22.

be difficult and we have to get this through the EU meeting at the back

:17:23.:17:27.

end of the month. There are 28 nations which have to agree on this.

:17:28.:17:31.

It was interesting hearing the piece before this about whether or not

:17:32.:17:37.

European MEPs are happy or not about it. The more that are happy about

:17:38.:17:41.

it, the more I'm slightly suspicious, but there seem to be few

:17:42.:17:45.

who think it is going too far and that is kind of what I want to hear.

:17:46.:17:49.

Clearly David Cameron has triggered the agreement of all 28 member

:17:50.:17:53.

states but it's probably as good as he can get. The other important

:17:54.:17:58.

point, people don't necessarily understand our relationship with

:17:59.:18:02.

Europe. Listening to members of your audience, we do have secured borders

:18:03.:18:06.

because we are not in the Schengen zone, we are going to be able to

:18:07.:18:10.

control immigration, we don't have mass immigration and it is worth

:18:11.:18:14.

bearing in mind that immigration benefits our economy. Net migration

:18:15.:18:17.

is obviously a long way above what the government said they would do.

:18:18.:18:23.

We are out of time for now but no doubt we can talk more about those

:18:24.:18:25.

issues another This footage clearly shows a hit

:18:26.:18:38.

and run driver speeding We'll be asking why the culprit

:18:39.:18:43.

can't be prosecuted. And Madonna goes to court today

:18:44.:18:47.

in an attempt for force ex-husband Guy Ritchie to return

:18:48.:18:49.

their son, Rocco, to the US. David Cameron is to try to persuade

:18:50.:18:52.

MPs to back a deal he hopes will keep Britain in

:18:53.:19:04.

the European Union. The deal is being debated now

:19:05.:19:06.

in the European parliament. The President of the European

:19:07.:19:09.

Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, says the proposals

:19:10.:19:11.

are good for all sides. The settlement that has been

:19:12.:19:14.

proposed is fair for the UK and fair It is also fair for

:19:15.:19:17.

the European Parliament. Health officials in the US

:19:18.:19:26.

are investigating a case of a Zika virus infection contracted

:19:27.:19:30.

from another person, It's thought a patient in the state

:19:31.:19:32.

of Texas became infected The discovery of a man's body

:19:33.:19:40.

on a cliff edge in Anglesey is being linked to a triple murder

:19:41.:19:45.

investigation near Leeds. The bodies of a woman and two

:19:46.:19:47.

children were found at a house And if you thought your commute

:19:48.:19:50.

was bad then take a look at these pictures from China,

:19:51.:19:56.

showing a backlog of 50,000 rail passengers stranded

:19:57.:19:58.

in the south of the country. The authorities have been laying

:19:59.:20:01.

on extra trains to try It's been caused by bad weather

:20:02.:20:03.

that's hampering the country's busiest travel period -

:20:04.:20:08.

the Chinese New Year getaway. Let's catch up with

:20:09.:20:14.

all the sport now. And a grand slam winner with you? I

:20:15.:20:27.

have esteemed company with me, old and read, who won the men's

:20:28.:20:31.

wheelchair title in the Australian Open last week in a great week for

:20:32.:20:40.

British tennis -- Gordon Reid. You got your hands on the title to win

:20:41.:20:47.

the men's singles wheelchair title. What a crazy few days it has been

:20:48.:20:52.

for you, you must be delighted? I'm really happy with the results out

:20:53.:20:58.

there, it was a great tournament for me and the aftermath has been pretty

:20:59.:21:04.

crazy. And your name alongside the likes of Jamie Murray, Andy Murray

:21:05.:21:07.

made it to the final, you are putting your sport on the map with

:21:08.:21:12.

your achievements. The fact that so many people are mentioning my name

:21:13.:21:16.

and wheelchair tennis in the same breath and alongside Jamie and Andy

:21:17.:21:20.

and able-bodied tennis that is a real honour for me and it is

:21:21.:21:25.

fantastic for the exposure of the sport. And there was a massive push

:21:26.:21:31.

after London 2012 with the Paralympics, with yourself and jaw

:21:32.:21:35.

Dan White leave doing a great deal for the sport, it is pushing it into

:21:36.:21:37.

the amazing -- Joe Dunne I can definitely see how the media

:21:38.:21:48.

and public have changed the perception of the sport and there is

:21:49.:21:51.

a lot more interest and more people are wanting to watch us and support

:21:52.:21:55.

us. It is definitely going in the right direction and with Rio this

:21:56.:22:01.

year there will be more and more interest and hopefully it keeps

:22:02.:22:06.

going. Let's talk about Rio because you have a busy summer with the

:22:07.:22:12.

Paralympics and at Wimbledon as well, for the first time they will

:22:13.:22:17.

be holding men's singles wheelchair tennis for the first time so I

:22:18.:22:22.

exceptionally busy period for you? It will be a very busy summer but

:22:23.:22:28.

really exciting times for the sport and for myself and the other

:22:29.:22:30.

athletes who will be competing at Wimbledon for the first time in

:22:31.:22:35.

singles which is huge for the sport. It will be nice to play in front of

:22:36.:22:38.

the home crowds. And part of the Aral Olympics GB team --

:22:39.:22:50.

Paralympics. How tough will it be playing singles on the grass? You

:22:51.:22:53.

have so much more ground to cover than with doubles? Obviously you

:22:54.:23:00.

have a part in helping you in doubles so singles is a bit tougher

:23:01.:23:05.

on the body and adding to that, playing on grass is tougher on the

:23:06.:23:09.

upper body and the arms so it takes a bit more energy to get around the

:23:10.:23:15.

court. It will be a different challenge but it is fun to play on

:23:16.:23:19.

grass, I have enjoyed playing doubles there for the last few years

:23:20.:23:23.

and it will be a nice challenge and a good opportunity. And having been

:23:24.:23:28.

out in Melbourne, that's not at the top of your mind about a lot going

:23:29.:23:35.

on in Rio at the moment with the Zika virus and delays in venue, has

:23:36.:23:41.

that even crossed your mind? Is it something you are thinking about?

:23:42.:23:46.

Not really, I haven't really been thinking about it with all the stuff

:23:47.:23:51.

going on. It has been mentioned and I am sure we will get advice before

:23:52.:23:56.

we go there, but as long as we take the right precautions, everything

:23:57.:24:00.

will be fine and we can focus on our performances. And still revelling in

:24:01.:24:05.

your success at the moment? Yes, just enjoy it while it lasts. Thank

:24:06.:24:10.

you for coming in this morning. Thing is crossed, plenty to look

:24:11.:24:14.

forward to from Gordon with Wimbledon and rear.

:24:15.:24:17.

Now, we want to show you some shocking video of the moment

:24:18.:24:21.

a cyclist was left for dead after being hit by a car

:24:22.:24:24.

The car you can see follows the cyclist from a distance around

:24:25.:24:33.

a roundabout before suddenly accelerating

:24:34.:24:34.

Police say there's not enough evidence to prosecute anyone

:24:35.:24:38.

because they can't prove who was driving.

:24:39.:24:41.

I'm joined by our correspondent Frankie McCamley.

:24:42.:24:48.

Extraordinary that a collision is caught on camera, worn by the

:24:49.:24:55.

cyclist. Talk us through what it shows and the issue. It is quite a

:24:56.:25:02.

shocking video and it has had nearly 40,000 views online having been

:25:03.:25:07.

posted by the cyclist, Reginald Scott. You can see that the cyclist

:25:08.:25:15.

is coming off this roundabout in Nottingham, he is followed by a

:25:16.:25:21.

silver Volvo coming up behind him. It is quite a distance and it

:25:22.:25:24.

suddenly accelerate and shunts the bicycle and you can see the cyclist

:25:25.:25:31.

falling to the ground and you can hear the cyclist groaning, in a lot

:25:32.:25:36.

of pain. Reginald Scott, the cyclist, said it took him four

:25:37.:25:41.

months to recover from this. He had severe back injuries and internal

:25:42.:25:47.

haemorrhaging. You can clearly see the registration plate of the

:25:48.:25:51.

vehicle so police could track it down. They said it belonged to a

:25:52.:25:55.

higher company pulls that they said it was sub leased to a number of

:25:56.:26:06.

companies -- a hire company. They tracked down a man and his wife,

:26:07.:26:10.

they spoke to them but neither admits to driving the vehicle at the

:26:11.:26:14.

time. They say they can not prosecute those people because it

:26:15.:26:17.

would be a miscarriage of justice and there is not enough evidence on

:26:18.:26:21.

this video alone to prove who was in the vehicle so they can't say it was

:26:22.:26:28.

one or the other. The man who was the lead driver, they have been able

:26:29.:26:33.

to fine him ?150 and put six points on his licence for not reporting the

:26:34.:26:37.

incident occurs he was in charge of the vehicle, and for not providing

:26:38.:26:43.

private giggles -- because he was in charge of the vehicle and for not

:26:44.:26:50.

providing driver details. This was a statement from Nottinghamshire

:26:51.:26:51.

Police. They say that without any more

:26:52.:27:03.

evidence, there is nothing more they can do. The cyclist felt the need to

:27:04.:27:08.

post this video online because he feels he has been let down by the

:27:09.:27:10.

authorities. Thank you. If you thought peak hour

:27:11.:27:16.

at Waterloo or Euston was bad - spare a thought for these rail

:27:17.:27:18.

passengers in China. A staggering 50,000 of them

:27:19.:27:21.

have been left stranded Bad weather is hampering

:27:22.:27:23.

the country's busiest travel period Extra trains are being put

:27:24.:27:26.

on to try to clear the backlog. Our Correspondent John Sudworth

:27:27.:27:31.

is at Guangzhou Station As you say, the miseries

:27:32.:27:33.

of the travelling public anywhere else probably pale into

:27:34.:27:39.

insignificance compared to this. This is the time of year that

:27:40.:27:43.

hundreds of millions of Chinese passengers take to the network,

:27:44.:27:47.

heading home for Chinese New Year. Many of them facing journeys

:27:48.:27:52.

of 18 hours, 24 hours. Pretty miserable at the best

:27:53.:28:00.

of times but their woes have been compounded this year by that bad

:28:01.:28:03.

weather which has caused a snarl up At the peak 100,000 passengers

:28:04.:28:07.

were stranded here, packed shoulder to shoulder

:28:08.:28:14.

on the concourse behind me. Many of them migrant workers heading

:28:15.:28:16.

home for their only They won't have seen friends,

:28:17.:28:18.

families, children even, since this time last year,

:28:19.:28:21.

so pretty frustrating. The authorities

:28:22.:28:23.

are doing two things. They have drafted in 1000 extra

:28:24.:28:29.

police officers to add to the 3,000 already on duty at the station

:28:30.:28:32.

to deal with any public order They are also bringing in about 20

:28:33.:28:35.

extra trains over the last 24 hours. The queues are starting to move

:28:36.:28:43.

and people are starting to clear. That backlog is disappearing,

:28:44.:28:50.

albeit slowly. With a bit of luck most of these

:28:51.:28:53.

people should be back home for Chinese New Year,

:28:54.:28:56.

New Year's Eve, on Sunday evening. Many of them reconnecting for that

:28:57.:29:00.

well earned break with families and friends, enjoying

:29:01.:29:04.

the Chinese Christmas dumplings, we hope, in the safety

:29:05.:29:05.

of their own homes. Madonna goes to court today

:29:06.:29:11.

in an attempt for force ex-husband Guy Ritchie to return

:29:12.:29:14.

their son, Rocco, to the US despite him saying he wants to stay

:29:15.:29:16.

with his dad in England. A US judge has already ruled Rocco

:29:17.:29:19.

must return to live with his mum - but for the time being he's

:29:20.:29:23.

refusing to leave his dad. Today a final decision should be

:29:24.:29:26.

made on where Rocco can live. Let's talk now to showbiz

:29:27.:29:31.

journalist Louisa Gannon, and Marilyn Stowe,

:29:32.:29:33.

Senior Partner at Stowe Family Law. Louise, it is painful to be going to

:29:34.:29:47.

a custody battle, it is being played out so publicly. That will make it

:29:48.:29:52.

even harder for them. How has it come to this? They got divorced

:29:53.:29:59.

years ago. Yes, they did. It has come to this at the moment, it

:30:00.:30:04.

happened around Christmas, he came over to spend time with his dad, and

:30:05.:30:08.

she wanted him back home for Christmas. He did not come and she

:30:09.:30:13.

got a Manhattan judge to issue an order saying he had to come back,

:30:14.:30:19.

but he didn't. Then the situation went into an impact when he was not

:30:20.:30:24.

coming home, school is starting. -- went into an impasse. I've

:30:25.:30:30.

interviewed Madonna and she's very bothered about their education, but

:30:31.:30:37.

he was not coming, she flew to London the beginning of this week to

:30:38.:30:40.

try and sort it out but it has not been sorted out and now she is gone

:30:41.:30:46.

back to court again. We see her as a global icon, but this is about her

:30:47.:30:50.

as a mother. Yes, she is totally domestic. She has been putting

:30:51.:30:55.

things out on social media. Giving an insight into how she's feeling.

:30:56.:31:01.

She has been giving an insight into how she's feeling, but I think the

:31:02.:31:04.

greatest insight she has been giving into how she is feeding is the way

:31:05.:31:09.

she is behaving. This is Madonna, she is a control freak, always on

:31:10.:31:13.

time for everything -- she is feeling. She has been turning up

:31:14.:31:20.

late for concerts, she has said things during the show which is not

:31:21.:31:23.

like her, swearing and talking about the situation. I feel very sorry for

:31:24.:31:29.

her, because you can see she is going through a complete red down

:31:30.:31:35.

over this. -- break down. I've spoken to her about her children and

:31:36.:31:39.

how she feels about being a mother so many times, and I know we think

:31:40.:31:44.

of her as Madonna, the superstar, but she is really concerned to be a

:31:45.:31:53.

good mother. How hands-on is she? The parents are living in different

:31:54.:31:54.

countries. She does The parents are living in different

:31:55.:32:00.

them to the office with her, and I was have a different opinion --

:32:01.:32:06.

joke. What she is concerned about, and this is a woman who lost her own

:32:07.:32:09.

mother at the age of five, she is concerned about bringing them up as

:32:10.:32:11.

good human beings. concerned about bringing them up as

:32:12.:32:16.

about discipline and school and education and good manners, and she

:32:17.:32:20.

has told me things by, she is bad cop and she admits it. -- told me

:32:21.:32:28.

things like. When she was married to Guy, anything on the floor would go

:32:29.:32:31.

into a bin bag and it would be dumped or they would have to do good

:32:32.:32:35.

deeds to get their clothes back. That is a

:32:36.:32:42.

deeds to get their clothes back. She said Guy is the one who would

:32:43.:32:44.

come up with sweets, but she had banned sweets. She is as hands-on as

:32:45.:32:50.

she can be doing the job she does, but she would like her kids with

:32:51.:32:54.

her. In terms of where they have been growing up, here or there? When

:32:55.:33:00.

she was with Guy, over here, but since then they have been in America

:33:01.:33:07.

with her, with free rein to come. Rocco has been at school in the

:33:08.:33:14.

states? Yes. Marilyn can give us the legal perspective on this, is the

:33:15.:33:19.

Lord Carey cut on this? Rocco is 15. -- is the law clear-cut on this? The

:33:20.:33:26.

law will look at jurisdiction, where should the case be heard? New York,

:33:27.:33:32.

where the judge made the order for the return or should be made in this

:33:33.:33:36.

country? If she is trying to enforce that under the Hague Convention, I

:33:37.:33:44.

think it will boil down to an issue of habitual residence, where does

:33:45.:33:50.

this boy think he is residing? I think he will apply for his own

:33:51.:33:54.

lawyers to represent him, and I think he will put his point of view.

:33:55.:33:59.

I would be very interested in hearing about how the focus is on

:34:00.:34:04.

Madonna. In England the focus is on the child, the welfare of the child.

:34:05.:34:09.

That is paramount. The check list that the court will apply is all

:34:10.:34:14.

about what are the needs of the child and the needs of the parents

:34:15.:34:19.

to meet those needs. There are many things the court will take into

:34:20.:34:22.

account, the emotional issues and education, and so forth. The court

:34:23.:34:27.

can say, actually, on balance, he should go back to the United States.

:34:28.:34:34.

But how on earth do you send a 15-year-old child back to the United

:34:35.:34:37.

States kicking and screaming when he doesn't want to go? My own view,

:34:38.:34:44.

this is a case for stepping back, parenting, allowing him space,

:34:45.:34:50.

recognising his age and actually he would like to be with his dad for a

:34:51.:34:56.

bit, letting him do it. Taking somebody to court at the age of 15,

:34:57.:35:00.

having it all over the American press and the British press, in my

:35:01.:35:04.

view that is not the way to go and parent a 15-year-old child. Custody

:35:05.:35:09.

across two countries must be problematic because the child will

:35:10.:35:16.

have ties in one country more than another. In the end, how do judges

:35:17.:35:23.

decide what is in the best interest of that child when they are of the

:35:24.:35:30.

age where they have strong views? Under the Hague Convention, it

:35:31.:35:33.

finishes when the child is 16, which will be in August. The convention

:35:34.:35:39.

will not apply anyway at that point. Custody does not apply in this

:35:40.:35:44.

country, we long since abolished the custody concept and what we have now

:35:45.:35:48.

is a child arrangement's programme. Where should the child live and how

:35:49.:35:52.

long with each parent and what sort of contact should he have with each?

:35:53.:35:57.

My view is, in a case like this, it is easily solvable. This child has a

:35:58.:36:03.

aeroplane is at his disposal he is the best possible education, he has

:36:04.:36:08.

great assets -- it is not about what a parent wants -- this child has a

:36:09.:36:15.

aeroplane is at his disposal. It is about what a 50 new old boy once. --

:36:16.:36:22.

it is about what a 15-year-old boy wants. You say it is easily

:36:23.:36:27.

solvable, but what about the parents? They have got to start

:36:28.:36:31.

thinking about the needs of the child, rather than their own needs,

:36:32.:36:34.

but of course it is upsetting and distressing. Transnational cases are

:36:35.:36:39.

sometimes the hardest that any judge has to decide, because children and

:36:40.:36:42.

parents are thousands of miles away from each other. But it has got to

:36:43.:36:47.

be done, and parents have got to pull together and get a grip and

:36:48.:36:51.

realise that this is an older child with his own views and his own

:36:52.:36:55.

requirements and his own needs, and I gave you, step back. She's not

:36:56.:37:01.

going to lose in -- and take a view. The way to losing is to try and

:37:02.:37:06.

force her views onto that child. In English law we look at the welfare

:37:07.:37:11.

of the child, the holistic overall view, what is best for the child?

:37:12.:37:16.

Louise, what is the situation with other kids? This is the only child

:37:17.:37:21.

they have got together, and I completely agree, in one way,

:37:22.:37:27.

Madonna has got to lose the battle to win the war, because ultimately

:37:28.:37:33.

she does not want to lose her child, she does not want this to be the

:37:34.:37:39.

pattern of their relationship. It has been paying for what he has put

:37:40.:37:45.

on social media. -- painful. She feels mother knows best and she does

:37:46.:37:50.

not want her child to be turning into some showbiz brat, she has been

:37:51.:37:55.

very careful to keep them tightly on a leash when she is with them and

:37:56.:38:00.

she fears that will happen if they are away from her. We will see how

:38:01.:38:05.

it unfolds. Louise and Marilyn, thanks for joining us.

:38:06.:38:08.

Actress Halle Berry has described the current storm over racial

:38:09.:38:10.

diversity in Hollywood as "heartbreaking".

:38:11.:38:11.

She remains the only black woman to receive an Oscar

:38:12.:38:14.

for Best Actress, for her role in Monster's Ball back in 2002.

:38:15.:38:17.

The row was sparked because not a single black, Asian or Hispanic

:38:18.:38:20.

performer has been put forward for a Best Actor,

:38:21.:38:23.

Actress, Supporting Actor or Supporting Actress Academy Award

:38:24.:38:24.

Ms Berry told a conference in Los Angeles she never imagined

:38:25.:38:32.

the door would remain shut to others following her.

:38:33.:38:38.

That win almost 15 years ago was iconic.

:38:39.:38:43.

It was important to me but I had the knowing in the moment

:38:44.:38:46.

When I said the door tonight has been opened,

:38:47.:38:54.

I believed that with every bone in my body, that this

:38:55.:38:56.

was going to incite change because this door, this barrier

:38:57.:38:59.

And to sit here almost 15 years later, knowing that another woman

:39:00.:39:06.

of colour has not walked through that door is heartbreaking.

:39:07.:39:09.

Because I thought that moment was bigger than me and it's

:39:10.:39:16.

heartbreaking to start to think that maybe it wasn't bigger than me.

:39:17.:39:19.

I only have my take and my take is that it's really

:39:20.:39:28.

And as film-makers and actors we have a responsibility

:39:29.:39:33.

The films I think that are coming out of Hollywood are not truthful

:39:34.:39:41.

and the reason they are not truthful these days is because they are not

:39:42.:39:46.

really depicting the importance and the involvement

:39:47.:39:49.

and the participation of people of colour in our American culture.

:39:50.:39:54.

Our cities are filled with black and brown people and many times,

:39:55.:39:59.

unfortunately, we see films that are set in Chicago,

:40:00.:40:03.

New York, Atlanta, big metropolitan cities,

:40:04.:40:07.

and they are void of people of colour, really.

:40:08.:40:09.

Or they are the people passing in the background that

:40:10.:40:12.

I feel like when we really live up to our responsibility in Hollywood

:40:13.:40:19.

and challenge ourselves to be truthful and tell the truth

:40:20.:40:22.

with our storytelling, then people of colour will be

:40:23.:40:26.

there in a real competitive way and it won't be about inclusion

:40:27.:40:29.

or diversity because if we are telling the truth,

:40:30.:40:32.

that inclusion and diversity will be a by-product of the truth

:40:33.:40:35.

Next - an extraordinary video showing pedestrians

:40:36.:40:43.

in south-west London running across a level crossing,

:40:44.:40:46.

Apparently local people are fed up with waiting to cross,

:40:47.:40:52.

because the barriers often stay down until several trains have passed.

:40:53.:40:56.

One man told our colleagues at BBC Radio London that his wife

:40:57.:40:59.

had waited 45 minutes before they lifted.

:41:00.:41:02.

You won't be surprised to hear that Network Rail has described

:41:03.:41:05.

the situation as "extremely dangerous".

:41:06.:41:07.

They told us there are currently delays of up to 15 minutes

:41:08.:41:11.

at the crossing in Barnes due to engineering works further

:41:12.:41:13.

The Rio 2016 Olympics organising committee says it has seen no

:41:14.:41:19.

evidence of people cancelling travel to the Olympics in August

:41:20.:41:22.

However, the Brazilian government is recommending pregnant

:41:23.:41:28.

Here's a look at how the disease has spread so far.

:41:29.:43:38.

Thank you for your company today, and for all your messages

:43:39.:43:40.

which really do help to inform our conversations.

:43:41.:43:45.

We're back tomorrow from 915 on BBC Two,

:43:46.:43:53.

In the meantime, have a lovely afternoon.

:43:54.:43:57.

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