04/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanne Gosling,

Support for families whose babies are stillborn or die shortly death

are "not good enough" - that's the view of a Government

minister after an investigation for this programme revealed

There is a real value in bereavement suites, in bereavement midwives and

a real need for a clear bereavement pathway.

That was the Conservative MP Antoinette Sandbach.

In a special investigation for this programme she meets the people

determined to bring bereaved parents better support.

Also ahead; David Cameron pledges an extra ?1.2 billion of aid

The announcement comes as a new poll suggests attitudes in the UK

are hardening; 40% of people now say we should accept fewer refugees.

And the mum who took the Government to court and won.

Her son developed a sleep disorder from a swine flu jab,

Hello, welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC

We'll keep you across the latest breaking and developing stories.

We'll be live as world leaders gather for a donor conference

in London in an attempt to raise over ?6 billion for those affected

Some 70 leaders are expected to attend the conference,

the fourth of its kind, including UK Prime Minister David Cameron

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And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

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A Government minister has admitted to this programme that bereavement

services for families whose babies are stillborn or die shortly

It follows an investigation for us by the Conservative MP

Antoinette Sandbach who found services were "patchy" with some

You might remember that in 2009 Antoinette's son Sam died

In an emotional speech she told the House of Commons there was no

bereavement counselling available where she lived and she only got

help when a charity paid for a counsellor to visit her home.

At the moment it is up to hospital trusts to decide what kind

of bereavement support they offer parents and as Antoinette has

discovered for this programme improvements need to be made.

Antoinette's film obviously deals with an upsetting subject; it's

about 15 minutes long and, as you'll see, she comes

across people who are determined to offer excellent support

I'm Antoinette Sandbach, Conservative M. I spoke in the

Commons about the death of my son. The night my son died, I woke to

find him not breathing. I looked at a flatline in the ambulance for 20

minutes. A crash team was waiting for me but it was too late. The

consultant Ne-Yo natal doctor was calm and a reassuring presence and

the nursing staff were patient. I readily agreed to a postmortem as I

wanted to know exactly what had happened. Staff at the hospital were

wonderful, but I found myself in a plain room with questions being

asked of me. I was told that I had to wait for the police. I had left

in such a panic that I'd left my telephone behind and I couldn't

remember any telephone numbers and was there on my own. I called the

number for the charity and they organised counselling for me. That

counselling was a lifeline and I owe a huge debt of gratitude to John

from the Alder Centre at Alder Hey Hospital as there was no counselling

available in North Wales. I was overwhelmed by the response

from members of the public and I wanted to go out and see what the

issues were facing other parents in the same situation as me.

We know that bereavement services across the country are patchy and

some parents who desperately need help and support are not able to

access it. So I've come here to the Alder Centre in Liverpool at Alder

Hey Children's Hospital to see the gold standard of care that they

offer bereaved parents. Hello, how are you... Lovely to see

you. It's been far too long. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks to you!

Are you ready to show me around this wonderful facility? Yes, I am, I am.

There you go. Thank you. I think you will find that what we

have here in this part of the country is unique. We will support

any bereaved parent who can get to us here in Liverpool. There's a lot

of areas that don't have bereavement support.

A lot of parents do say that if it wasn't for counselling support, they

would feel they would have been on medication for maybe a long time.

It's my experience that I was offered medication rather than

counselling? Yes. And I felt that I was grieving, not depressed? Yes,

and that is what I tell the parents that come here, you know, and I

think any hospital should be providing a counselling service. If

it can't be provided in hospitals, certainly it should be in the local

area. Child death helpline, this is Deb...

If we are on call, our target is to be in the hospital within an hour of

being notified of the child having died. Once the family have settled,

then we'd say, when you're ready, you can go through and see your

child, your baby. This is the room they'd come to and here they can

just spend precious time with their child, it's their space to do what

they want really. We'd support them, but we'd also give them private

time. We do things like hand and footprints with them if that's what

they would like, locks of hair, we can take very special photographs

for them maybe of the baby's hand in mum's hand and dad's hand.

I found it very difficult that, not that I was being treated like a

criminal, but that there was, the fact of the criminal investigation,

I found that very difficult. I think our primary role is to be an

advocate for the person so actually we can intervene and ask the police

to pause and wait and see, mum needs some space, please give her that

space. I'm on my way to meet a mum who lost

her baby at 11 weeks and to see what her experience was of bereavement

care. The hospital were great. The day she

passed aawas amazing, they cleared the whole ward and brought a sofa in

and she was with us. She, after that, we did a footprint and cleaned

her, wrapped her in a blanket. And gave you a memory box? Yes, which

was lovely. As soon as we'd left the hospital, there was nothing there. I

rang an organisation who gave me five or six numbers of local

charities, organisations, to speak to, and I rang them. Every time, I

had to tell my story which was painful, more than painful at that

time. But I had five noes and it was horrendous and I went through the

story every time. I remember coming downstairs, telling my family and

being mortified. I was so upset because I just needed this support

very early and I was getting no, no, no, because she was too old, too

young, didn't day of the right thing, and it was just horrendous.

In terms of the difference of before you got professional counselling and

afterwards, what kind of difference did that make to you emotionally?

Well, it was huge really because Isabelle died on 3rd January, I saw

somebody I think mid toll the end of March -- middle to the end of March

and she was fantastic. In that period, I didn't know what I was

doing. I needed a guidance how to do this basically and then, as soon as

I saw her, she had almost mapped it out like a structure and said, this

is what you feel, you may not, I told her what I was feeling, she

said that's normal, that's fine, and it was like a huge relief, a huge

relief. And if only I'd had that at the beginning, it was still a

painful, painful time, but that took the burden off a little bit. Because

I could understand what I was feeling, she made me understand what

I was feeling. Isabelle was very like Mark, my

husband, features the same really and Emily was very like me. I

remember Sam had very big feet. My boy's definitely going to be in the

Welsh rugby team, I thought. It's lovely isn't it? It is lovely, all

those things are just lovely memories. They're all we have? Yes.

Minister, it's clear that those parents who arrive at hospital

following on from a sudden infant death often don't have access to a

bereavement suite. Are you looking to change that? So the problem is

that it's still not good enough. You might have some hospitals where

there is a good bereavement suite but not a full-time bereavement

nurse, where there might not be good counselling after a death. We need

to make sure we've got a really joined up pathway in all hospitals

so that we provide consistent support and help to mothers and

families for the entire duration that they require it. Whilst there

is a lot of great work going on in this country, and actually some of

the best research in the world is going on here, it's clear that there

was massive variation across the country, which meant that compared

to other countries, it's not enough. Some charities work on the

counselling because it's not available on the NHS. What are you

doing to ensure the NHS can work in partnership with the charities? I

hope very much That the ?350 million that we are giving for perinatal

health will go to make sure the services are more sustainable. We

don't want to lose the amazing work being put in by charities around the

country, because actually, it's often those mothers and families

who've had experience of still birth and Ne-Yo natal death who're best

able to help mothers and families going through that. -- neonatal.

Some hospitals can only provide the facilities with the charity money.

I've come here to see what has been achieved by parent power.

Hello, I'm Antoinette. Shall we take a seat? Have you come far? No,

fairly local. One of the hardest part was being on

the delivery suite, hearing the babies crying, hearing of the

parents celebrating. We were in amongst it, and that was painful,

knowing that we would never hear Abigail Crier, never get that

celebration, because we lost her before she had even been with us. Do

you think it is appropriate that the funding needs to come from the

charitable sector? I think it is hard for the NHS, they have got

limited budgets and are trying to stretch them through the services

they provide. Is bereavement care seen as a luxury item? I don't know,

it shouldn't be, but it seems to be. This is our delivery suite, we have

5000 birds here, and currently we have ten birthing rooms which will

be for the mothers having normal, healthy pregnancies, and just down

the corridor is our bereavement suite, which is where mothers

deliver. What difference have David and Joe and their charity, Abigail's

Footsteps,, made to this hospital? Being able to develop the

bereavement suite is undoubtedly huge, thank you very much to them.

This is for the memory box, something she can take away with

her, a baby that, when she got pregnant, she loved from the very

minute. It is the loss of a future, isn't it? Absolutely, and

registering that for her. Oh, a pink, fluffy poodle!

I have met so many amazing parents on this journey, all, like me,

trying to make a difference, and what it has shown is that there is a

real value in bereavement sweets, bereavement midwives, and a real

need for a clear bereavement pathway. It has been quite difficult

and emotional for me, this journey, but I am absolutely determined to

fight with others to make sure those improvements are made, and made for

people around the country. You can watch and share that film

online via our programme page. And if you need support

after watching Antoinette's story there are details on how

to get help there too. You can also ring the

Child Death Helpline - they offer

a freephone service. You can contact them

on 0800 282 986. Antoinette will be here later

in the programme along with a woman who has raised thousands

to build a bereavement suite Lots of you getting in touch. One

tweet, amazing insight into support for bereaved parents. John says, my

ex-wife had a stillbirth more than 40 years ago, we had nobody to help

and moved on. One e-mail, excruciating to watch the story of

Antoinette's loss, more funding in this area is vital.

A ten-year-old boy wins a payout after developing

a rare sleeping condition following a swine flu vaccination.

Josh Hadfield and his mum will be speaking to us shortly.

The BBC understands that a UN panel has found Julian Assange

is being wrongly detained at the London embassy

What does this mean now for the WikiLeaks founder?

The UK will double its funding for Syrian refugees who have fled

It is pledging an extra ?1.2 billion by 2020 to help some

of the people who have fled to neighbouring countries such

70 countries are meeting in London this morning for a conference

The energy regulator is to investigate allegations

that the charity Age UK has been selling unfavourable gas

and electricity deals to elderly people in return for money.

It concerns the energy supplier aeon, Age UK denies the claim.

A murder inquiry has been launched after a man was shot dead

during an attempted robbery at a warehouse

Police were called after receiving reports that several masked men

A man in his 50s, who was found with a gunshot wound at the scene,

The BBC understands that a UN panel investigating whether WikiLeaks

founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully detained'

at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

Mr Assange says he expects to be able to walk free

from the Ecuadorian embassy, where he's been living for three

A Government minister has told this programme that bereavement services

for families whose children are stillborn or die shortly

It follows an investigation by the Conservative MP

Antoinette Sandbach who found services were 'patchy' with some

John Watson has all the sport for us now, and news of Tyson Fury throwing

What is happening? champion of the world, Tyson Fury

has threatened to quit the sport. It came in and interview

has threatened to quit the sport. It his victory over Vladimir Critchlow.

He says he does not want his victory over Vladimir Critchlow.

hear from him later on. We will also touch on last night's

hear from him later on. We will also from the Premier League, one of

hear from him later on. We will also Newcastle, lost last night. Perhaps

that not having the immediate effect they wanted. And we will hear from

Jamie Jones-Buchanan of Leeds Rhinos, and interesting story. They

begin their title defence later tonight following the floods over

Christmas, they have not been able to train on their pitches. Not the

best preparation for them ahead of the start of the new season. All of

that to come at 10am. Thank you.

David Cameron is to double the UK's aid spending for Syrian refugees,

as more than 70 world leaders gather in London for talks

Britain is promising an extra ?1.2 billion of aid for Syrians

who have fled to neighbouring countries to escape the civil war.

The announcement comes as a new poll suggests attitudes in the UK

are hardening - two in five people here now say we should

The United Nations is attempting to raise more than ?6 billion

to help fund aid operations for the 4.6 million refugees

who have fled Syria and are in need of assistance.

With no end to the conflict in sight, Caroline Hawley looks

at the grim statistics that define the crisis.

Syria is the worst humanitarian crisis of our time. I will give you

some figures, but all this is about, actually, is people dying.

Before the war there were about 22 million people living in Syria.

About half of them, half of them, had to clear they -- flee their

homes, that is 11 million people uprooted. It really is huge, the

population of Greece, Portugal or Belgium. More than 4.5 million of

them have crossed into other countries. Next door in Lebanon,

every fifth person is a Syrian refugee. The vast majority are

fleeing not the so-called Islamic State but President Assad's regime.

Take that in. While IS get all the attention, they are not the main

humanitarian problem. In Syria it self more than 2 million children

are living under siege or in areas that aid agencies cannot reach. Some

have starved to death, some tortured to death, in all over a quarter of a

million people have been killed. Around a third of

million people have been killed. civilians. 13,000 of them were

children. The UN says it will need $8 million to spend on the

humanitarian crisis this year. Last year it got only half the money it

asked for, but even if it got everything it asks for the reality

is with the conflict carrying on many, many more Syrians are going to

be killed. We can speak now to three Syrians

living here in the UK. Haid Haid, a masters student

who moved here from Syria Fardous Bahbouh, a translator who's

been here for five years. And Reem Assal, who's going to be

attending the conference later. Haid, tell us your situation macros

you left Syria after the war broke out, went to Lebanon and have now

come here? In 2011 I started participating in demonstrations

against Assad. I had to go and serve in the army but refused to do that

so I had to macro options, go out and kill people, or to be killed, or

to leave the country, so I left the country. I stayed in Lebanon on the

four years and I'm here to be my masters now. You had a relatively

straightforward departure from the country and arrival here. When you

look at the situation now, how do you feel about others and about your

position? It is extremely difficult right now, because Turkey has closed

its border with Syria since March 2015, almost a year now. Jordan has

closed its border for more than three years now. It is extremely

difficult for any Syrian to be able to enter Lebanon since January 2015,

so what we are seeing now is that civilians who need to leave are

trapped inside Syria, so it is a completely different story. To be

able to get out of Syria, people have to be able to survive being

shot not only by Assad forces but by security forces or by immigration

officers from Turkey or Jordan or even Lebanon when they try to

smuggle in illegally to these countries. Reem, what is your story?

I was born in the UK but lived most of my life in Syria. In the

beginning of the uprising I was engaged right from the start, so on

the background of the activism I was had for questioning a couple of

times in June 2000 and 11. After that, I had to flee the country, my

family insisted upon that. I was fortunate because I'm a British

citizen so it was straightforward for me, I came back to the UK, which

is not the case for the majority of Syrians, who have to risk their

lives, throw themselves in the seed to reach outside the country. You

have got a lot of family still in Syria bowed you have been here for

five years? I have family and friends all over Syria, I was a

student in Syria, -- I was a teacher in Syria, and it is so hard to see

it, there is biting, and we are very thankful and very grateful to the

donors and Syrian friends who are gathered today in London. We need

more focus on a political solution and a real end to the war, because

we Syrians just wanted our rights, our dignity, our freedom, we were

peaceful in our demonstrations but the regime didn't like this, and

brutally killed everybody until the revolution had unfortunately become

militarily. Now, the situation is very bad and the only baby can reach

an effective political solution is through civilian protection, so be

card only hold talks if there is no real feeling of civilian protection.

That could only happen through ending the siege and through air for

besieged areas, and also through the immediate stop of indiscriminate

killing, mainly through bombardments, through Assad bombs

and the Russian bombing the Syrians. They say they are fighting Isis,

however if you look at the maps where the Russian bombs are landing,

they are landing when the opposition are, so very little of this has gone

on to Isis. And the third point is the release of the detailing is.

Many Syrians who spoke for their freedom were detained. We have

political detailing is and want to see them freed. I have two cousins

who were detained because they were distributing food through a besieged

town, and we don't know where they are. These two brave men were only

helping with distributing food, they have family, children, and we have

no idea where they are, so we need to know what is going on with the

detainees. Haid, what do you want to come out of the conference today,

there is talk about raising a huge amount of money to help those in

need of help? First full I want to thank the UK for what they did, it

is extremely helpful. But what we have been seeing here is talks on

the humanitarian level. I think what we need to do is work on two

different aspects on top of this, the first one is to work on the

protection of refugees and Syrians outside of Syria, in Lebanon I was

not able to renew my residency so I had to leave will stop many people

cannot leave Lebanon because they have nowhere else to go, they are

trapped within Lebanon, more than 800,000 Syrians don't have legal

residency, Lebanon in January 20 12th imposed new regulations and are

not allowing Syrians to do that because you have to pay around $200.

So when you talk about protection, what do you mean? A legal framework

in order to, first of all, acknowledge that they are refugees

in those countries. Until now, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey don't say

that we are refugees, they say we are guests. We need to focus on

having legal frameworks to acknowledge that we have refugees

and to acknowledge the rise and the things the refugees have to do.

Protection of civilians inside Syria is an issue. What we have been

talking about here, about the barrel bombs and indiscriminate attacks, we

have to stop this from happening, we have to guarantee that humanitarian

aid will be have to guarantee that humanitarian

besieged areas, 52 have to guarantee that humanitarian

49 are besieged by the Assad regime. We are talking about one million

people who don't have access to food. We need to do something about

it. The UN has resolutions, more than three resolutions, that give

them the justification, the legal justification in order to go

them the justification, the legal those people without even an

approval from the Syrian regime, but they are not able to do that because

they think it's risky in order to do that without the regime guaranteeing

that they'll not be attacked. So what we need here is to have food to

be airdropped to those people because they are saying it's not

possible. We have to look at other options. Let's, the UN have been

dropping assistance to besieged areas for years or to hard-to-reach

areas, so let's start doing this in order to give those people at least

the hope that international community and those countries are

willing to go and help you when there is a need for that.

At a time when every country is bombing Syria, including the UK, why

it's easy to decide to throw bombs on Syrian people when it's very hard

and reluctant to drop food? If I may, Joanne narks I would like to go

back to today's conference and to link it to the ground. Today we are

pledging funds. Actually, a colleague of mine who works on the

ground was saying yesterday that we are speaking today of improving

education, providing education to children, but actually what happens

is, a school is set up, you know, on the ground, all is good, children

start to attend. Then suddenly the school is bombed. Everything is lost

and we have to restart. So, unless we tackle the problem at the root,

even if we get all the funds that... But this is about schools in

neighbouring countries? ? No, on the ground in Syria. OK. So unless we

tackle the problem at the root, even if we get all the funds pledged,

we'll need double the amount next year because the crisis is growing.

That's one thing. Another important point that I would like to really

stress on is the importance, and I can't stress enough on the

importance, putting the Syrians at the forefront of either to find

their needs, their prytys, how the funds should be spent and in the

implementation of the projects on the ground, because no-one else

knows Syria better than Syrians -- priorities, how the funds should be

spent. In order to find peace on the ground, it has to come from Syrians

itself. The British Government believes the focus should be on

helping people in the region, rather than allowing more refugees to come

to this country, the numbers here would be 20,000 over five years. How

do you see that debate? Do you think that the British Government is right

to say that the most important thing is to give people in the region that

they don't want to leave? I think it's a double responsibility. Now

it's a reality. People are fleeing, are leaving, are throwing

themselveses in the sea you know, risking their lives. We should

tackle this problem. There is no point of just ignoring that and

pretending that, well it's not the problem, we can't help them stay in

the region because the neighbouring countries can't take endless

numbers. Like in Lebanon, there are almost, you know, now... One third.

Yes, one third of the population, so they are burdening the neighbouring

countries. One third of the total population? No, no, one third of the

Lebanese population because Lebanon has around 4 million Lebanese and

you have 1.2 or 1.3 million Syrian refugees. A third of the population

of the countries are refugees now, you see, so we need actually to work

in parallel on both helping them by stopping the root of the conflict,

that would be in my opinion the best thing to do. They'll stop fleeing

their countries. No-one wants to leave their homes, you know, they'd

rather stay if they can. My parents are still inside Syria, they don't

want to leave, although it's extremely difficult. So are my

parents. You see, that would be the ideal thing, but then, until then,

there is no point of just denying those that are willing to leave a

safe passage to reach the EU or elsewhere because it's not making

any sense. These are human beings, their lives are important as well.

Give them rights once they reach here. Thank you. We are out of time

unfortunately, but we appreciate you all coming in. Thank you very much.

Just to tell you, we are hearing, ahead of that conference, Germany's

made a new pledge of 1.2 billion euro for Syria. That will go some

way to help hitting the target that they are hoping to raise at the

conference. We'll have more coverage a little later.

Still to come today; does more need to be done to help families

The MP discovered bereavement services were patchy.

The BBC understands that a United Nations panel investigating

whether Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully

detained' at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

Mr Assange took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy more

than three and a half years ago to avoid extradition to Sweden.

An official announcement is due tomorrow.

Our correspondent Richard Lister is outside the embassy.

Explain more, Richard - why was the UN looking at this and specifically

what was it looking at, because he took the decision to walk into the

embassy there? Yes he did but the Equadorian

government gave him political asylum meaning in theory he should be able

to go to Ecuador and live there without fear of being extradited to

the US which of course is Mr Assange's greatest concern because

the FBI is looking into his release of sensitive information through his

WikiLeaks group. Now, that's the case as far as Mr Assange is

concerned, he said he should be free to go to Ecuador but the moment he

sets foot outside this embassy, he'd be arrest sod he asked the UN

working group to look into whether or not his rights have been

infringed and the BBC understands they'll say tomorrow that yes, his

rights as somebody who's been granted political asylum have been

infringed, he should be allowed to go to Ecuador. Therefore many

Assange will say to the government, you need to give me my passport,

assure me that I won't be extradited to Sweden or the US and let me go to

Ecuador. The UK is not legally bound by the decisions of this working

group and already today, the police have said if Mr Assange sets foot

outside the embassy, he will be arrested. So what will happen?

Wing we are looking at a stalemate frankly Joanna, more of the same. Mr

Assange knows he'll be arrested if he leaves this embassy where he's

been since June 2012 and the UK Government's said so far that they

have an obligation to arrest him because he's skipped his bail

conditions and also because they plan to extradite him to Sweden who

want to question him in relation to the sexual assault allegations. I

think we are looking at a stalemate unless Mr Assange says he's had

enough in there or unless the British Government decides that it

will abide by this ruling by the UN when it's made public tomorrow.

Thank you very much. With me is Vaughan Smith,

a good friend of Julian Assange, who allowed him to seek refuge

in his home in 2010. What do you think about the latest

development? Well, I hadn't heard that the decision had been in Julian

Assange's favour, I've just heard that now on your programme and I'm

absolutely thrilled if that's the case. I want to see this matter

resolved, I think we all need to see this matter resolved. It's

unacceptable to have Julian Assange sitting in this embassy in this

manner. It doesn't change anything though

does it, because it doesn't have any authority over the UK authorities? I

hope it does change something. Actually I do think it does change

something, it certainly changes something in the international

opinion about him. This is the highest authority that Julian

Assange can appeal to, you know. It's a tribunal that's effectively

determined in favour a Washington Post journalist detained in Iran,

Aung San Suu Kyi. If they cherry pick, aren't they doing what they

are accusing Julian Assange of, of ignoring situations that don't suit

us. I hope Julian Assange gets freedom. Effectively what happens if

this decision is as you have reported it, he's been reported as a

dissident and maybe we don't like them in our country, maybe we like

to see them elsewhere. But he put himself in detention in the embassy

because he wanted to avoid extradition and the prospect of

criminal proceedings? He claims asylum. He got diplomatic asylum so

he's reek newsed... But not for political reasons is it, it was

related to potential charges? No, no, no, that's the way it's been

presented but I contest that. Interestingly, the legislation that

he was extradited on has completely changed. If he was to go through it

now, he wouldn't be extradited, it's highly unlikely. How do you contest

that it wasn't to do with allegations made against him in

Sweden, rather than... Well, he has claimed that they are politically

motivated and that actually they're completely unfair. He was granted

political asylum by Ecuador and consequently now, this tribunal's

apparently found in his favour, they have looked at the facts completely

independently. We should recognise it. You can't just hark back to the

idea that we are going to cherry pick this, that it's OK for a

dissident in another country but when we've got one here and the

international tribunal determine that, that we can't recognise it, of

course we should recognise it. What sort of country are we? ! It does

look like the stalemate will continue? I hope not. That he'll

remain in that embassy? It's appalling if that's the case, I

really hope not. Surely as a country, you know, we participated

in the working group. Our country and the Swedes submitted evidence so

we have recognised the process, surely we recognise the UN, why

can't we abide by its rulings when we are accusing Julian Assange... A

quick word on him as a friend and how he is having lived in that

confinement for this time? I think his health is poor. When I last saw

him, he said it was much worse than prison because he had no access to

outside space at all. So I must say, he's quite pail and rather unhealthy

and I think he's suffered horribly -- pale. I think it's time for us to

acknowledge that we have a dissident in our country and we've got to let

him free. Vaughan Smith, thank you very much.

Let's get the latest weather update with Carol Kirkwood.

You are a long way over there. I should run over.

What is happening with the weather? The weather has been so up and down

this week. I am The weather has been so up and down

lot of it has to do with the jet stream. We talk about the jet stream

often, a ribbon of fast-moving air, 30,000 feet up in the atmosphere

roughly where planes fly and it will help you get back from America on a

plane than it helps you get there. You can see how it's undulating at

the moment. The jet stream is the boundary layer between warm and cold

air and the bigger boundary layer between warm and cold

in the temperature, the bigger the boundary layer between warm and cold

jet stream. We talked about this when we were talking about

jet stream. We talked about this that. You can see some big kinks in

that jet stream, so that shows that it is very mobile. What you find in

kinks like that, we have got low pressure

kinks like that, we have got low have been rattling across the

It also depends on the other direction

It also depends on the the wind, low pressure dominating

today, the wind coming from the wind, low pressure dominating

direction, coming straight the wind, low pressure dominating

Atlantic, from the seals, but also dragging a lot of cloud. I

Atlantic, from the seals, but also have made that simple enough!

Basically it will continue being changeable for a while? Right into

the weekend it will be changeable and into next week as well. It

causes trouble with what to wear! Today, though, it is fairly cloudy.

We have got some beautiful pictures sent in by our weather Watchers,

this is one from London earlier today, standard for what it is like

in many parts of the UK although we do have some rain around. As I was

saying to Joanna, it is mild, that milder air filtering steadily

northwards. Usurping the cold air some of us had already this morning

but not yet across Scotland and the far north of England. We had a

weather front going through, taking rain with it, milder air following

from that. A second introducing some rain as well, not particularly

heavy. Later we will see heavy rain from the Atlantic. It is also

breezy, as you can tell from the spacing on the isobars. A lot of

cloud this morning, some breaks likely, down towards Kent and the

East of Northern Ireland. Even into the afternoon you can see some

showers across Wales and south-west England, a lot of cloud around,

cloud generally across southern counties of England and into East

Anglia, the Midlands, heading into northern England as well. Also the

rain across northern England moving west to east, showers from Northern

Ireland, the best chance of a break will be in the East. This rain

moving steadily eastwards across Scotland, but look at the difference

in the temperatures between West and North East, OP two in the Northern

Isles this afternoon. Eventually the milder air will get into the

Northern Isles. Tonight, cloudy and damp, then a can hear red band of

rain across western Scotland and Northern Ireland in the shape of

another weather front, and the wind. Them. Not a particularly cold night

in prospect. That leads us into tomorrow morning, not a cold start

to the day, and once again tomorrow will start on a cloudy note with

some drizzle and some showers around. Meanwhile our band of rain

across Scotland, northern England, will also move through Northern

Ireland, heading slowly southwards. It may lead to localised flooding

across south-west Scotland, some heavy rain as well across Cumbria,

for example. Head of it, still a lot of cloud, windy wherever you are,

but still relatively mild as well. If we move to the other side of his

weather front, you can see it will still be cold enough for some snow

on the hills. Hello, I'm Joanna Gosling and this

is the Victoria Derbyshire show. Welcome to the programme

if you've just joined us. The tragedy of a stillbirth or

bereavement just after birth. Support for families whose babies

are stillborn or die shortly after birth are "not good enough" -

that's the view of a Government minister after an investigation

for this programme revealed There is a real value in the

treatment suites and bereavement midwives, and a real need for a

bereavement hatchway. -- pathway. That was the Conservative MP

Antoinette Sandbach. In a special investigation for this

programme she meets the people determined to bring bereaved

parents better support. David Cameron promises an extra ?1.2

billion of aid for Syrian refugees. The money will go towards helping

those who fled to Syria's neighbouring countries. We will be

at a conference in London into the crisis this morning where more than

70 world leaders are gathering. And the mum who took

the Government to court and won - her son developed a sleep disorder

from a swine flu jab, Germany has joined the UK in

pledging extra funding for Syrian refugees have fled the Civil War.

The UK is to double its funding for Syrian refugees who have fled

It's pledging an extra ?1.2 billion to help those in camps in Jordan,

70 countries meet in London this morning for a conference

The energy regulator is to investigate allegations

that the charity Age UK has been selling unfavourable gas

and electricity deals to elderly people in return for money.

It concerns a relationship with the energy supplier E.ON.

A murder inquiry's begun after a man was shot dead during an attempted

robbery at a Birmingham warehouse last night.

Our correspondent Peter Wilson is at the scene. What happened?

There is a murder investigation, West Midlands forensic teams have

just arrived here in the dig the area of the city. Last night at

6:40pm police were called, and they found the company director, 56 years

old, lying in the road just behind me here. He had been shot by two

masked men. Police said they don't know what type of firearm at this

stage was used, they are appealing for anyone with information to come

forward. It was at the height of the city's rush-hour, and his family

have been informed. Police liaison teams are with them and at the

moment the murder investigation is in full swing.

The BBC understands that a UN panel investigating whether WikiLeaks

founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully detained'

at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

Mr Assange says he expects to be able to walk free

from the Ecuadorian embassy, where he took refuge over three

years ago, if the news is confirmed.

A Government minister has told this programme that bereavement services,

for families whose children are stillborn or die shortly

It follows an investigation by the Conservative MP

Antoinette Sandbach, who found services were 'patchy'

with some parents unable to get help.

John Watson has all the sport for us now, and news of Tyson Fury throwing

Yes, a bit of a surprise, certainly not what we would have expected.

Three months after becoming world heavyweight boxing champion

Tyson Fury has threatened to quit the sport.

In an interview with BBC Radio 5 Live this morning he says he's

struggling to get motivated after his victory

over Vladimir Klitschko in Dusseldorf back in November.

He says he doesn't want the only reason to fight to be

about the money, and still isn't sure whether he'll fight

the Ukrainian boxer in a planned rematch in May.

I don't know what I'm going to do at the moment. I haven't even cemented

that I'm going to fight in a rematch, there is speculation about

the rematch but it is even if I want to go ahead and fight again. I could

walk away, Sail away into the sunset unbeaten, just live a normal life.

It is what I decide to do, and I haven't decided yet.

Newcastle United spent ?29 million on new players

And that's from a club third from bottom in the Premier League.

If Newcastle hoped that would lift them out of the danger zone,

they were left disappointed as they were beaten 3-0

It was a local lad who had the biggest say on the outcome,

Everton midfielder Ross Barkley scoring twice.

His second a cheeky chip from a penalty.

With a massive TV deal kicking in next season,

avoiding relegation has never been more important.

Whether Newcastle can spend their way out of trouble

Chelsea's topsy-turvy season shows signs of improvement.

Since Jose Mouinho's sacking, they've gone on a seven

Diego Costa came closest as they were held to a goalless

Second-placed Aberdeen's win over table-toppers

The goal of the game came from Jonny Hayes

with this goal from 25 yards in a 2-1 win that trims the gap

at the top of the Premiership to three points.

The Super League season begins tonight, and it's been far

from ideal preparation for champions

Leeds Rhinos, who still haven't been able to return to their training

pitches after they were flooded in December.

They begin the defence of their title later,

Despite the obvious disruption to their pre season plans,

Jamie Jones Buchanan says some good has come out of their predicament.

When you're training ground gets uprooted by a torrent of water, it

is difficult, obviously. Our full training ground has been destroyed,

we're finding alternative grounds to do our few sessions, which hasn't

been too bad. We have built a lot of bridges, got a lot of friends, no

shortage of invites, so we have used some local commercial gyms, private

James, and the best thing for me was being back in my amateur club,

getting a nostalgic feel training where it all started.

Katie Swan became Britain's youngest ever Fed Cup player at the age of 16

Hello, thank you for joining us this morning.

Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

We're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until 11am.

Your contributions are really welcome to our programme.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

Wherever you are you can watch our programme online

via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria.

A Government minister has admitted to this programme that bereavement

services for families whose babies are stillborn or die shortly

It follows an investigation for us by the Conservative MP

Antoinette Sandbach who found services were "patchy",

with some parents unable to access help.

You might remember that in 2009 Antoinette's son Sam died

In an emotional speech, she told the House of Commons

there was no bereavement counselling available where she lived

and she only got help when a charity paid for a counsellor

At the moment it is up to hospital trusts to decide what kind

of bereavement support they offer parents and,

as Antoinette has discovered for this programme,

In a moment we'll talk to Antoinette, but first

I'm Antoinette Sandbach, MP, and I spoke in the House of Commons

The night my son died I woke to find him not breathing.

Arriving at hospital looking at a flat line in the ambulance

for over 20 minutes, a crash team was waiting for me,

We will support any bereaved parents that can get to us

What we found, there are lots of areas which do not

Some parents have said if it wasn't for counselling and support,

they feel they would have been on medication for maybe a long time.

That was my experience, I was offered medication

I felt I was grieving, not depressed.

As soon as we left the hospital, there

I was so upset because I just needed the support, very early,

and I was getting no, no, no, because she was too old,

too young, did not die of the right thing.

Minister, it is clear that those parents who arrived at hospital

following on from a sudden infant death often don't have access

The problem is a smaller one than it was some years ago,

You might have some hospitals where there is a good bereavement

suite but there is not a full-time bereavement nurse,

where there might not be good counselling after the death,

so we need to make sure that we have a really joined up

so that we provide consistent support and help to mothers

It has been quite difficult and emotional for me,

this journey, but I'm absolutely determined to fight with others

to make sure that those improvements are made and made for people

You can watch and share that film online via our programme page.

And if you need support after watching Antoinette's story

there are details on how to get help there, too.

You can also ring the Child Death Helpline -

You can contact them on 0800 282 986.

And when it is with me in the studio. First, let's go to David

Cameron, talking about Syria ahead of that conference.

Maintain services and create jobs for their own people. As we all

know, the long-term solution to the crisis in Syria can only be reached

with a political transition to a new Government that meets the needs of

all its people, and we must continue to work towards that, however

difficult it may be. While we pursue a solution to this horrific

conflict, we can also take vital steps now which will make a real

difference to people's lives today and long into the future. We can

provide the help that Syrians need with pledges of aid, food and

medical supplies that will quite literally saved lives this year and

in the years ahead. We can provide refugees with the opportunities and

skills they need to make a life for themselves and their families in

their host communities, giving them a viable alternative to remain in

the region and equipping them for the date they can eventually return

home to We can support the host countries

that are showing huge generosity in providing refuge to Syrians with no

choice but to flee destruction. Before we turn to the steps we can

take together, take a moment to remind ourselves just what five

years of conflict has meant for Syria and for the millions of people

who're suffering as a result. We'll leave that conference now,

that is the opening of the international donor conference in

London, hoping to raise ?6.2 billion for those affected by the war in

Syria. We'll have more on that a little later. Let's return to our

discussion about the sort of care that is available for parents after

they lose a baby, whether it's through stillbirth or shortly after

the child was born at a very young stage in their lives.

Let's talk now to Dot Smith, head of maternity, Medway Maritime

Judith Abela, acting chief executive of the Sands charity.

Antoinette Sandbach, Conservative MP, whose son died

And Annika Dowson, whose daughter was stillborn.

Thank you all for joining us. Antoinette, just heartbreaking to

watch you talking in the Commons about what you went through. Tell us

about your experience, if you will, going back to the moment after you

discovered Sam was dead? You went to the hospital. What was it like and

what help was available for you? Well, the crash team were waiting

for me but it became apparent quite quickly that they were unable to

help and I was put in a room that I would describe as a waiting room, a

sofa and two chairs, very plain walls and left there for quite a

long time. At the hospital, I was given a leaflet from the a charity

and ultimately it was that leaflet that I contacted the charity several

days after, but I spent four-and-a-half hours in that room

and didn't really get a huge amount of support. I had to wait for the

police and it was a very difficult time. I think that's what's

motivated me to try and see what the best practise is out there so it's

been lovely to meet Dot on this journey and see how well Medway are

doing and also to go to Alder Hey who have fantastic services

available, the really kind of gold standard service that should be

available elsewhere in the country. Tell us more about what it was that

took you on that path from that intense personal grief to a

determination that nobody should have to experience the sort of thing

you had? Well, really, I got so much support through counselling. But it

took time to come? Yes and it was only because of the charity that

funded it and commissioned it from Alder Hey that I was able to access

that counselling because that support wasn't available in Wales

where I was then living. I think if you heard what Amelia was saying

about being told by various people that she wasn't suitable for support

from their charity because her circumstances weren't right,

actually what's clear is that, as the minister identified, is a clear

pathway and I'm really delighted we have the political will now from the

Department of Health to look at it and a substantial funding

commitment. That gives us a really important opportunity to get things

right. Annika, your daughter Gypsy was

stillborn in 2008. How were you treated in the hospital through that

traumatic time? The medical staff, the midwives and everything, they

were really good and very supportive, but the room that I was

actually in was at the end of a corridor of the maternity unit and

in the same corridor was the theatre. I was in the room for three

days an in those days I could hear the mums in the rooms adjacent to me

giving birth and I could hear the babies' screams which was really

hard. I know when I was in labour, I was in a lot of pain and I needed a

midwife but I could also hear a mum screaming and she needed help and

knowing that she was having a live baby, I told the midwife to go to

her and she came back half an hour later and Gypsy's head was already

coming out. I didn't feel that... I was important enough is the wrong

word but that's how I felt and that that mum needed the care. Now if the

room hadn't haven't have been there, I wouldn't have known that. Maybe

then I would have felt I was important to ask for that midwife to

help me through that pain. I've no doubt that they would have stayed,

it's just how I felt. Dot, Antoinette has already spoken of you

and the work that you do. Listening to what happened to Annika, it's

just heart-breaking hearing women who've been athletic through these

experiences. It sounds like a simple thing that could be put right, not

having the women in an environment where they can hear other women

giving birth? When I listen to the stories, it resonates with the

stories that local women tell us at Medway. We have come through a long

journey, we are still on it, we have made some mistakes but also learnt

from the feedback to get the mistakes corrected. I think that's

where we are now, in that position where our services are being

developed in response to what the women tell us, what... So you have

sound proofed the bereavement programme? Absolutely. So our women

have told us the same story as Annika's just told us. Equally ewe

had an inspection from the Care Quality Commission that criticised

the facilities in 2013 and we were really lucky that our Trust

supported us in the developments, so we refurbished our suite which is on

the delivery suite but totally sound proofed now, it enables the woman to

have that dignity and privacy in what she deserves is a really

traumatic experience. We heard from Ben Gummer that even sometimes when

the infrastructure is in place, the staff are not in place. What are the

staffing levels and do you have the resources? We have worked really

hard to look at how we can best support both the mothers going

through the experience but equally the midwives that support them on

that journey so we have been really lucky to be able to fund a

bereavement midwife who has the support of admin staff because it's

a multifaceted path way that we need to address. Her function is really

around supporting the mother, having been direct contact for her but

equally training the midwives in best to support... Could all

Merseyside wives not be trained for this... That's... If there's one in

particular covering everybody, it's obviously a limitation? That's

exactly what our approach is. We have a bereavement midwife who

facilitates the training for all our midwives in our unit so whichever

midwife is allocated to that woman, she has got an insight and

understanding how best to support the lady having her baby and that

mother in her experience going through the bereavement pathway.

Judith, your charity's fundamental in supporting hospitals in providing

what the hospitals need isn't it? Yes. Do you think that's right that

charities are stepping in? I think it's very difficult. Obviously, it's

a huge resource that's needed to be able to get the standard needed

across the country. At the moment, the charity sector is plugging a lot

of that gap. You can see the amazing work that can happen at the unit,

but it's still too inconsistent and, unless charities are there at the

moment, then nothing will happen to improve the standard of care. We are

able to start working and develop the work that we have been doing

with the Government to try to get much more funding in place and get

consistency across the country. There are simple things that can be

done to improve the care for my bereaved parent, it doesn't have to

take huge resources. What is happening on that funding? I'm

delighted that the minister has committed ?350 million to preparing

the mental health there and that kind of support will help parents

particularly on the counselling pathway following on from leaving

the hospital because it's not just what happens at the hospital, it's

the after-care following that. Is it right that charities do have to

provide the level of support they do? Charities have real specialist

expertise and I found, I mean Annika's done amazing work

fund-raising for her hospital and parents want to do something in

memory of their child and I think what's exciting about what the

Government's announcing is that they are trying to work in partnership so

that those local initiatives can really thrive and help support,

because then there's a top-down thing and it allows parents to get

involved and be part of it. I think that's important for the parents

too. In the end, there is obviously a

point where the medical staff in a hospital have to end what they do

and the parents have to move on and get help from elsewhere? How can

that be smooth? Well, that is where the value of the bereavement midwife

is, very often they'll have linked into the organisations and

communities. So it's a case of simple sign-posting then sometimes

is it? And commissioning the counselling services. That's where

there are real gaps at the moment, that there are not necessarily the

counselling services available in the community and I'm very excited

about the funding that will now mean that there's the opportunity to

commission those services. What is important for midwives to be told in

caring for a parent after they've lost a child, because obviously

anybody that goes into that profession is caring, but there'll

be a right and wrong way to handle something so sensitive? I think one

size doesn't fit all and it's understanding how you can speak to a

mother and her family and gain a really good connection and then work

with her to achieve her choices. Our midwives are trained on actually all

the services that we provide so that she can signpost the mother to the

next phase. She'll also support her in consent for a very difficult

decision on whether to do a postmortem or not, she'll then also

support the mother in caring for her baby in the first hours after

delivery and it's about actually acknowledging that this is a birth

experience, albeit very sad, this woman's going through the same

physical processes of having just had a baby and it's being able to

put that all into a very individualised package for each

woman. That's what the training does, it talks about the difficult

conversations that you have to have, it talks about the difficult ways

that you manage the whole family to support each and every individual

because they're all going through that experience with that mother, so

it's really about being very human on this life-influencing journey

that will actually resonate and have an impact going forward to the next

pregnancies. Also about giving the midwives and any health professional

coming into contact with a bereavement family being able to

communicate properly. We have done work for a long time with the

professionals and it's about the communication skills, making the

health professionals aware of the unique impact the death of a baby

can have and also helping them support that family and make

memories. It's the sign-posting to ongoing support circumstances and

the difficult conversations, so it's empowering the midwives to be able

to support the families properly. I think a lot of midwives still

haven't had access to that training. They still don't have the confidence

to be able to work with and support parents properly and, rather than be

too scared of saying the wrong thing so they don't say anything, it's

about giving them the skills and confidence to be able to go in

there, talk to the family and help them through the situation. There is

a huge anxiety about midwives getting it wrong. Thank you all very

much. Lots of people getting in touch. Tweet from Debra, so much

more needs to be done, very moving. Hugh has tweeted saying very

important piece on parental bereavement, very dignified and

eloquent. Antoinette, I knew nothing of your experience, moved by your

stoicism and inspire bid your strength. A ten-year-old has won

?120,000 in damages after a swine flu left him with -- swine flu

The main news For the this morning: problems. For the

Germany has joined the UK with a big new pledge of aid for Syrian

Britain's sending an extra ?1.2 billion for millions

of people in camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

70 countries meet in London this morning for a conference

The energy regulator is to investigate allegations

that the charity Age UK has been selling unfavourable gas

and electricity deals to elderly people in return for money.

It concerns a relationship with the energy supplier E.ON.

A murder inquiry's begun after a man was shot dead during an attempted

robbery at a Birmingham warehouse last night.

Our correspondent Peter Wilson is at the scene.

sorry, he was earlier, he is not now.

The BBC understands that a UN panel investigating whether WikiLeaks

founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully detained'

at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

Mr Assange says he expects to be able to walk free

from the Ecuadorian embassy, where he took refuge over three

years ago, if the news is confirmed.

A Government minister has told this programme that bereavement services,

for families whose children are stillborn or die shortly

It follows an investigation by the Conservative MP

Antoinette Sandbach, who found services were 'patchy'

with some parents unable to get help.

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

Tyson Fury talking about his future? Absolutely, we're not sure if it is

a threat or something he will follow through on.

Tyson Fury has threatened to quit boxing, just three months

after becoming world heavyweight champion.

After beating Wladimir Klitchko in Dusseldorf in November,

he says he might walk away from the sport and says he's

undecided about whether he'll fight Klitchko

If Newcastle hoped that spending ?29 million on new players

would lift them out of the Premier League relegation

zone, they were left disappointed as they were beaten 3-0

What a result in Scotland as second placed Aberdeen beat table toppers

The goal of the game came from Jonny Hayes,

with this goal from 25 yards in a 2-1 win that trims the gap

at the top of the Premiership to three points.

Katie Swan became Britain's youngest ever Fed Cup player at the age of 16

After coming into the team to replace your who is ill at the

moment. I'm sure Judy Murray will be delighted.

Let's go back to the Syria crisis, David Cameron has made an

impassioned plea for more funds to help those fleeing the horrific

conflict in Syria. He was speaking at a donor's conference in London

which began this morning with delegates from more than 70

countries. David Cameron said that displaced people had to be helped to

return to their homes. The UK and Germany have announced big increases

this morning in their aid the Syrians. Ben Brown is at the

conference, we can join him there now.

David Cameron in those remarks you showed a few minutes ago was saying

there was a need to give those Syrian refugees who are in the camps

in countries like Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, countries neighbouring

Syria, to give them an opportunity to make a life for themselves. The

Syrian war has been going for five years, a brutal civil war, no sign

at the moment that it is coming to an end. These people could be in

those countries for years to come and the international community in

Europe especially is trying to persuade them to stay where they are

in the region, not to join the mass flow of migrants into Europe, but

one of the ways they are thinking of doing that is to provide more jobs,

more educational opportunities for those refugees, 4.5 million refugees

in those countries, Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. It is hugely expensive

of course, $9 billion is what the international community are being

asked to come up with at this conference in London today, but

there is huge pressure on those host countries. Jordan in particular,

King Abdullah said this week in a BBC interview that, such is the

influx of Syrian refugees into his country, the country is at boiling

point and there is a dam that could burst at any time, you said, so

pressure on the international community to help those countries,

to create work for them, schools for the refugee children who are not

going to school at the moment. It is expensive and in previous years

donor's conferences like this have been asked to donate money and have

only managed to get half of what was requested. This time there is an

impetus on them to come up with the money they have been asked for.

Thank you very much. We can speak now to a Conservative

MP who sits on the Commons foreign Affairs Select Committee and have

visited camps in Iraq. Also, from Damascus, Pascal, who

works for the International committee of the Red Cross.

?1.2 billion extra for the British Government, where has that come

from? From the Department for International development, Justin

Greening was on the airwaves this morning talking about the extra

investment of at least ?1.2 billion, which takes our total investment to

?2.3 billion. It is not extra money, it is coming from the existing aid

budget? People will hear the figure and think, things are tight, where

is the money coming from? This isn't just about money, if you look at

what refugees go through, the trauma, they need shelter, security,

food, medicine, but beyond that what tends to happen, they want work,

they don't want hand-outs, they want to work, they want their children to

go to school. They begin to think about moving after losing hope, the

third year of being in a refugee camp, they think, my child cannot

get education, I need an alternative, so what this conference

is about is a new way to deliver some real opportunities and jobs,

schooling, education. One of our very good ambassadors in the leather

nun, Tom Fletcher, started an educational programme in refugee

camps. It is that sort of innovation that I think is going to make a huge

difference. David Cameron is passionate about this. He said this

morning, we have got to tackle the root cause of the problem, the

Geneva peace talks. If you cannot get peace

Geneva peace talks. If you cannot revisiting this year after

Geneva peace talks. If you cannot more and more aid money required, so

we need to tackle the root cause. You have got to give these people

hope to their communities. You said people will leave after three years,

people are already leaving, a billion came to Europe last year.

The sort of aid that is going that way to set up the assistance you are

talking about is going to take time. In that period, should the UK do

more in terms of taking in refugees whose lives are on hold, who are in

desperate situations, who are coming to Europe already or will be

thinking about it because there is no imminent sign of the relief that

you describe? We are already taking 20 thousand people from those camps

over five years, last year we took 3500 children through our normal

processing of people who require refuge. I spoke to Lord Malloch

Brown, one of the signatories of an open letter to the Government this

week saying that the figure is simply not good enough. He says it

should be more like 100,000 over five years. What is important is the

welfare of those families and children. It is best to keep them

close to their villages and have hope of return. 12 million Syrians

have been displaced, overfull and a half million in camps. How many

would you take, it won't solve the problem. You need two solutions, the

peace process, the root cause, and secondly make the camps and the job

opportunities and education them much better than it is today will

stop that way, you have a good chance of giving them at least some

hope of staying there and then returning home. In Sinjar, with the

Yazidi 's who fled from Daesh, it has been liberated, there is a

massive aid effort. Let's not outbid each other on numbers, let's do what

is right by those people. On the numbers, generous donations from the

UK as we have mentioned, also Germany offering a lot of money this

morning. The amount of money being sought is higher than the figure

that was put forward by the UN last year, 60% of that amount was not

raised last year. As the debate changed enough for countries to be

more generous this year in terms of the best way to deal with refugees

will be looked at the numbers that have come to Europe, as we

discussed? That is David Cameron's message today, to those leaders,

over 60 prime ministers, 70 countries represented, the messages,

follow us, we will share best practice with you, other countries

are doing well, Norway, Germany, Kuwait, the UN sponsoring the

conference will stop let's not allow ourselves to make pledges but then

not deliver. The money has to be delivered, the UN launches these

appeals and they only get 50% real delivery. That needs to change, the

UK has led the way and David Cameron is determined to make sure other

countries do the same. Let's bring in Pawel Krzysiek from the

international community for the Red Cross, joining us from Damascus. How

do you assess the situation in terms of the best way for the

international community to help? I think the most important issue right

now for the humanitarian agencies like the Red Cross is to access the

people in need in this country. There are still too many places and

too many people that we cannot reach with humanitarian aid. Yesterday, we

entered the besieged town in Damascus where we saw desperation.

That operation-macro also sought last month in other places in Syria,

it is the example of what is going on in this country -- the grid that

desperation I also saw last month. In terms of the fighting, the

clashes, combat between various parties and also because

humanitarian aid organisations like mine cannot access the people in

need. Have there been food drops? Should there be airdrops of food and

other aid? Airdrops is an extremely compensated operation, and, I don't

go, being in my diet, I can hardly imagine how the airdrops could be

done there. But there is a road there, which leads to the town,

roads to many other places in Syria and aid can be brought in. What we

need is the willingness of various parties to allow this aid in, and

this is what the International Red Cross is pushing for. Yesterday we

saw that it is possible but it is not enough in order for us to help

those people on a regular basis, properly, we need to access those

places regularly. When you talk about places like Madaya, people are

stuck there, unable to leave, so what is generally happening with the

refugee crisis? Are people able to leave with borders sealed? What we

have seen is not only the people beeping outside Syria, which is an

estimated over 4 million people, but many, many people are fleeing their

homes and going from one place inside Syria to another. I remember

in Aleppo, I think, in my last visit in November I met an old man living

in eastern Aleppo, in an unfinished building, no walls, no windows, the

Red Cross was working to seal this place. He told me, I lived in

eastern Aleppo, that I had to leave, I went to Raqqa, then I had to

leave, so I went to Western Aleppo, where the people were promising me

flats and, as you can see, this is the flat, no windows and no doors.

It is not only the problem of people fleeing outside but we are talking

here about more than 8 million Syrians who are displaced

internally, fleeing their homes, looking for a better life, and then

cannot find it inside Syria because the situation is so dire. Pawel

Krzysiek, thank you very much, Agro one, thank you. -- Nadhim Zahawi

thank you. A mum from Somerset has become

the first person to win compensation after her son developed

a sleeping disorder Josh Hadfield was diagnosed

with narcolepsy in 2010. His mum, Caroline, sought legal

help to prove a link between the jab After a long fight, he's now

been granted ?120,000. We can now talk to 10-year-old Josh

and his mum, Caroline, who join us from

Bristol this morning. Thank you both for joining us.

Caroline, take us back to why you got the swine flu jab done in the

first place? Initially we had it because the Government advice at the

time was that all children under the age of five were classed as at high

risk, and he was still four. We had a letter from our GP, giving us the

information that the Government had advised. I did a few weeks of

research on it to see if there was any adverse side effects, which, at

the time, there was nothing reported. Narcolepsy was not flagged

up to you at the time? You were not aware of that? Know, the only side

effects I could find were a sore arm and disliked beaver, that was all

there was. When did you realise something was wrong with Josh? Three

weeks after the vaccination he went from being a healthy, energetic

four-year-old to being one who just slept all the time. He was coming

home from school and going to bed. You would not see him until the

following day when the school was calling and saying, you have brought

him into school and he is asleep in our later, come and collect him. I

knew then something was wrong. How long did it can to find out what was

wrong? It took lots of different tests, lots of different doctors,

and we got the official written diagnosis in February 20 11.

Hi Josh, tell us what it's like having narcolepsy? It's mostly bad.

I don't like it when I have to go to sleep because I miss out on things

that I quite like. So you just get very, very tired, do you? Yes.

Caroline, once you'd found out that it was narcolepsy, what did you do

with that information? It's taken you six years to get to the point of

actually getting compensation over this? It did. Initially, when I

found out what it was, I spoke to the doctors and said, could it be be

anything to do with the vaccine and they were all like, no, no, no, no,

and my thoughts were that it was because there was nothing else that

had come into effect which could have caused the sleepiness. So I

campaigned quite a lot and spoke to various different newspapers and

tried to get the story out which we managed to do in April 2011. The

first day that came out, I had five families contact me over the next 24

hours to say, oh, my God, these symptoms are exactly the same as

what is going on with my child, no-one knows what it is, I'm now

going to take this article to the doctors and hospitals and we are

going to try and get it tested for that. So in order to win the victory

that you did and get compensation, what did you have to prove? We had

to prove that Josh was more than 60% disabled because, according to the

DWP, I'm a vaccine damage payment scheme, they have a 60% disablement

level which they initially said Josh was not severely disabled enough and

didn't reach that level. So we have very, very regular hospital

appointments in London and sleep studies and all the rest of it, so

we had to get everything done. Obviously I'd contacted a solicitor

as well who worked very, very hard for us. Reports were done. How do

you feel about the fact that you took the choice to get him

vaccinated and it's had this impact? I feel incredibly guilty about it to

be honest and I'll have to live with this for the rest of my life.

Although I was trying to protect him, but his life has now been

affectd and it's never, ever going to change. I feel guilty but the

other part of me feels very angry about the fact that we have had to

jump through so many hoops to try and get some sort of level of

compensation for something which he never asked for and the vaccine I

don't think was ever tested properly anyway.

It's very, very mixed. ?120,000 of compensation. What does that mean to

you? It all means that I can start putting a few things in place to try

and set up a bit of a secure future for Josh. At the end of the day, I

will do everything I can to support him but I'm not always going to be

around. There's going to come a time when Josh will need to fend for

himself so I need to try and put things in place for him long-term

and for his future. Thank you very much, Caroline and

Josh, Caroline said there she did not believe the vaccine was tested

adequately. The Department of Work and Pensions

initially decided against allocating compensation to Josh, a spokesman

told the programme: The energy regulator, Ofgem,

is to investigate claims about the relationship between Age

UK, and the energy company, The Sun newspaper says the charity

has been selling costly electricity and gas deals to elderly people and,

in return, receiving millions Age UK has rejected the allegations,

while Eon said its tariffs Our personal finance correspondent

Simon Gompertz is here. Tell us what is alleged to have gone

on here? The allegations in the Sun are that Age UK has brought 150,000

older people into gas and electricity contracts that are too

expensive, they are paying more than they need to. What they were was

earlier last year, they brought out a two-year fixed rate deal, so you

paid the same amount for two years to give you peace of mind, Age UK

selling it, passing people on to the big supplier Eon for a certain price

but it turned out by the end of the year that if people had been on

Eon's cheapest price that they had on offer during that year, they

would have been ?245 better off for the year. A considerable sum and not

only that, Age UK was getting paid Commission for passing people on,

that amounted to ?6 million for the year and, if you divide it by the

number of people, it's roughly ?41 per customer that they passed on to

Eon, so the claim is that people were paying too much and that Age

UK, the charity, was getting a kick back for that. Are charities able to

do that and take Commission for it? They can. Age UK sells equity

release plans where you can tap into the value of your home, insurance,

funeral plans, a lot of things that they make money from, the money is

then used in the charity's activities, all of it is diverted

there, but both Age UK and Eon have had their say about this today and

Age UK first of all says it's been working with Eon for years and says:

Eon adds that customers are not tied and can swap to a cheaper deal when

they want to, they always work to ensure the tariffs are competitively

priced. They say this type was the cheapest. They can switch without

any charge which means they can pick a tariff that best suits their

needs. Coming at a time when trust in charities has been an issue, is

this going to be looked at, just in terms of whether it's advisable for

there to be links between charities and business like this? Charities

have really been under the Spotlight, primarily for fund-raise

ing tactics using telephone cold-calling and that type of thing.

This isn't about that. The same question arises as to what we want

our charities to do when they raise funds, to we want them to be like

commercial operations? After all, when they make a kick back or a

commission from selling gas and electricity, they are sort of doing

what those price comparison when sites on the Internet do when we

want to switch suppliers because they get typically between ?30 and

?60 a time if they pass on a customer to an energy company and

that's in a sense what Age UK was doing. To we want our charities to

be doing that, making money out of insurance and gas and electricity

give than they use that money then for charitable purposes? Thank you,

Simon. We've been discussing how Syrian

refugees can be helped by the international community -

as world leaders meet in London Earlier this week -

over 100 senior figures signed a letter calling the government's

response to the refugee I've been speaking to one

of the signatories the former Foreign Office minister

Lord Malloch Brown. Suddenly this isn't a problem far

away and about humanitarian sympathy, it's an urgent political

problem close to home. So I have no doubt that more money will be raised

and I think the conference is timely and coming on the back of the

postponement of the peace negotiations for Syria. I think it's

also going to be accompanied by a recognition that this conflict's

around for a while and therefore the refugee problem is around for a

while. So you've signed a letter saying that the Government position

here and the numbers that it's accepting, 20,000 over five years,

is morally unacceptable, would you put a figure on it?

I'm not sure there is a figure per say, but when we are taking less

over five years than Canada, a country half our size is taking in

one, you've got to realise that we are, proportionately way off. The

Government's quite right to say that we can't just throw open our doors

to everybody, there has to be very clear screening of people to make

sure they are refugees, to make sure also that there are not terrorists

in their number. The public has a right to be reassured that this

problem is being well-managed, the in-flow is being managed. We have to

look to our history, enormous success in the past that we have had

with refugees who've come here, whether it was Jewish refugees or

the Second World War, whether it was other situations. Has the debate

become toxic? It has. What's needed is real

leadershire from politicians, which is a combination of respect for laws

and undertakings we have given, compared and combined with a

willingness to be tough, humane but tough in dealing with those groups

who don't qualify as refugees. Thank you for you company

this morning and for Shona got in touch on the issue

about bereavement counselling for parents after they lose a baby. She

says she lost her baby at 31 and a half weeks, this was no formal

counselling service or volunteers who'd lost a baby which she did find

helpful, it helped her a lot and Cheryl's tweeted, great to see

examples of excellent bereavement care.

We'll be back tomorrow from 9:15 on BBC Two,