04/07/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

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Former Labour leader Ed Miliband investigates the rent-to-buy market. Conservatives debate who should be their next leader. And can Wales reach the Euro 2016 final?

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Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.


Our top story today is more fallout from the EU referendum


- a close friend of Boris Johnson attacks Tory leadership


contender Michael Gove, saying he's unfit


And that's not all, is it, Norman Smith?


Tensions erupting in the Tory ranks as Theresa May's backers say she


will not guarantee EU migrants living in the UK the right to stay


here while Angela Eagle from the Labour Party says of Jeremy Corbyn


does not quit, she will stand. And after 10.30am this morning


a Cabinet minister and former Cabinet minister will exclusively


tell this programme who they're backing in the race to be


the next Prime Minister. Plus we'll hear from religious


leaders who're issuing a plea for unity following divisions we've


seen after the leave vote. Plus an exclusive report


from Ed Miliband, the former leader He's been investigating rent-to-own


companies for this programme. They should be a cap on the total


costs that rent-to-own companies can charge, be done with payday lenders


and it is worth it. That exclusive report


coming up shortly - And, as always, we're keen


to hear your experiences And as Wales fans tried to get


tickets to the semifinal after that magnificent performance against


Belgium and the rest of us try to find out if we have some well


shimmers, we will explore the psychology of the underdog side who


have done so brilliant. If you work hard enough and are not afraid to


dream and not afraid to fail... Welcome to the programme,


we're live until 11am. Throughout the programme we'll bring


you the latest breaking news We're expecting UKIP leader


Nigel Farage to give a speech setting out UKIP's role


in a post-Brexit Britain after 10am this morning -


we'll bring you some of it live. As always, we're really keen


for you to get in touch on all the stories we're talking


about this morning. Particularly if you want


to share your own experience of rent-to-own companies


- use #VictoriaLive. And if you text, you will be charged


at the standard network rate. George Osborne has pledged to slash


the amount of tax businesses pay in order to encourage


investment in the wake In a newspaper interview,


the Chancellor said cutting corporation tax was one of his five


priorities to show the UK Britain may have voted to leave


the EU, but the country is very much That is the message


the Chancellor wants to send to companies


that might now be having doubts


about investing in the UK George Osborne has told


the Financial Times he plans That is the rate at which companies


pay tax on their profits. It would drop from the current


20% to below 15%. That would make it the lowest


corporation tax rate Compare that, for example,


with 39% in the USA, It would even take it close


to the competitive 12.5% That is very different


from what Mr Osborne was suggesting There'll be a hole


in public finances. You've got Chancellors from two


different political parties saying that taxes will have to go up,


spending will have to be cut. That is the reality


of quitting the EU. That talk of imposing ?30 billion


in tax rises and spending cuts has now gone, replaced by an attempt


to woo business and keep Boris Johnson has accused


the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be


made to work in the UK's interests. In a column in The Daily Telegraph,


the former Leave campaigner says "hysteria" is sweeping parts


of the population who wanted He argues that they need


more reassurance. Our political Guru Norman Smith


is in Westminster. The Tory infighting continues. That


is a mild way of putting it! I have never seen anything like this, this


is fear and loathing on stilts. This morning we get a Boris Johnson


backlash, he wading into David Cameron for, in his view, not doing


enough to reassure people over Brexit saying they are encountering


the sort of atmosphere we saw in the aftermath of the death of Lady Diana


even more, his campaign manager, the person who was meant to be running


his leadership campaign, Ben Wallace, has launched an


extraordinary attack on Michael Gove, saying, in effect, Michael


Gove is a gossip, he's fond of a drink and he cannot be trusted. You


would not want to entrust him with the secrets of the nation. Utterly


extraordinary. At the same time as this blood over the stage, we have


serious divisions merging between the rival candidates, particularly


over that fraught issue of immigration. What has emerged is a


Theresa May, the frontrunner, is in the market to do some sort of deal


over freedom of movement which those who favoured Brexit, they thought we


had to stop this and Theresa May thinks we have to do a deal on this


so that companies can still get access to the single market and the


biggest bust up will emerge after one of her supporters, Philip


Hammond, suggested that it would be absurd to guarantee that EU migrants


currently living and working in the UK should definitely be allowed to


stay. He is putting up big question over whether EU migrants working


here, doctors, nurses, care workers, whether they will automatically have


the right to stay. That will provoke huge controversy. Already Michael


Gove's team say we will guarantee that and Yvette Cooper has written


to the Prime Minister demanding he issues a statement on this


guaranteeing the rights of EU migrants, saying this is a hugely


inflammatory intervention. We will talk to the former Labour leader Ed


Miliband about that because he has a point of view on whether EU citizens


should be guaranteed that right. I also want to ask about the current


Labour leader. The current Chancellor, remember him? The big


announcement from George Osborne, it is a tiny reminder that there is


some governing still going on despite the Conservative infighting?


That is interesting because you sense the Chancellor house to rip up


his game plan post election. You will remember that after the Tory


election victory, we were told that the aim was to get the books


balanced by the end of the Parliament, that has been torn up


and put in the den and be not find that corporation tax will have to be


racks dine to 15%. That is a massive cut the Chancellor feels that is


necessary to try to give businesses some sort of confidence and sense


that Britain is still a place where they should invest and do business.


Amid mounting concerns that many investors are thinking they will not


do anything because we have no idea what is going to happen in Britain


in terms of whether it will get access to the single market. It


underlines the really deep unease over what is going to happen to the


economy. And in terms of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn is still leader


and his former shadow business Minister, Angela Eagle, says she


will still stand against him but not yet? We are in this weird Mexican


stand-off, they are like gunslingers ready to go. There is the suggestion


this morning that the unions could intervene as try to broker some sort


of peace deal. They would go off to the bar and live happily ever after.


I cannot see that happening because Angela Eagle this morning was pretty


clear that if Jeremy Corbyn does not walk away, she will stand. Listen...


He is not properly engaged with even the Deputy Leader of the party, who


was elected with a mandate. It is time that he did so. How many


people? MPs and party members, are asking me to resolve this. And I


will have something is not done soon. Are you still prepared to run


against him? I have the support to run and resolve this and I will do


so if Jeremy does not take action soon. That is all I have to say.


Talking to the critics of Mr Corbyn, what are you doing? Willie Rennie


stand? They seem to want to wait until the Chilcott report is


published on Wednesday because that is a huge moment but after that, the


game is on. Showdown still looming in the ranks of the Labour Party.


Thank you very much. And we will talk to Ed Miliband about the


fallout from the EU vote and the current state of the Labour Party


and about rent-to-own companies. His exclusive film is coming up.


A legal challenge has been brought to ensure the government follows


lawful procedure when leaving the European Union.


A group of academics and business people is trying to force


the government to pass an Act of Parliament before it


They want assurances that Britain will not use executive powers


to start the process of leaving the EU.


Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary


The Iraqi government has declared three days of national


mourning after the weekend's deadly bomb attack.


Officials say 106 65 people were killed and more than 200 injured


after a lorry packed with excuses was blown up in a busy shopping


area. The so-called Islamic State says it


carried out the attack. Our Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen


reports from Baghdad. The bombs and the fires


consumed so many lives. It is supposed to be


a sacred and festive season, the last few days of


the holy month of Ramadan. This was the so-called


Islamic State's latest gift He says that Iraqis are like sheep


among wolves, everyone is coming We don't, we don't have any


security, any real security in Iraq. Yes, we have a lot of police,


we have a lot of army, Islamic State, Sunni extremists,


said they were targeting Shia A main reason why IS attacked


was the defeat they have just It means they have lost


a stronghold less than an hour's All the destruction and killing add


up to a clear message from the jihadists of


so-called Islamic State. That they may be defeated


on the battlefield, but they are still able to hit back


where it hurts most, by killing civilians in the heart


of this capital city, The Former Labour Leader Ed Miliband


has carried out an investigation for this programme into rent-to-own


companies, which allow shoppers to pay for items like TVs,


fridges and washing machines In many cases, Mr Miliband found


consumers can end up paying up to three times more for the product


than the original price. He also found some companies


are selling these goods to vulnerable people with learning


difficulties who may not understand Brighthouse, the biggest company,


says rent-to-own is a different proposition to other forms of retail


and they undertake extensive affordability assessments before


lending. We will have more on that investigation throughout the


programme. The father of a British boy killed


by an alligator at Disney World in Florida last month,


has said that two alligators Matt Graves, whose son, Lane,


was seized by an alligator while he was paddling in shallow


water, said he was attacked by the second animal as he tried


to save his son. Five alligators were killed


on the day after the attack Most unpaid carers are still not


receiving the support they are entitled to,


a year after new rules came into force to improve


their health and wellbeing. That's according to research


from The Carers Trust. Since last April, councils have


been required to provide assessments and support


to protect carers' wellbeing. But a review by the former


Care Minister Paul Burstow found 65% He says government, councils


and the NHS must do more I'm very frustrated that after the


first 12 months, it would appear that councils are not following the


letter of the law and they're offering a one-off payment in many


cases which is fobbing off carers. And they are certainly not doing


enough to raise the awareness of carers that this is something they


have as a right and they should be taking advantage of it because in


the end, carers are saving councils are forging. -- a fortune.


A Nasa spacecraft is about to arrive at the largest planet


in the solar system - Jupiter.


The probe was launched in 2011 and has travelled


Entering into orbit will be fraught with dangers,


but if the spacecraft succeeds, it will give us our best


That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.


The normally bring new sport right now but there has been a mix-up with


the rudder. We are looking for a sports presenter! We will talk about


Wales with some real Welsh people and people who are hoping to find


some Welsh somewhere in their heritage! First...


First this morning, an exclusive report by the former


Labour leader Ed Miliband, who investigates the rent-to-own


Rent-to-own companies allow shoppers to pay for items like TVs,


games consoles, fridges and washing machines in weekly instalments,


But consumers can end up paying up to three times more for the product


and we've discovered that some companies are selling these goods


to vulnerable people with mental health problems and learning


difficulties leading to concerns that they may not understand


The Citizens Advice Bureau tells us it receives thousands of complaints


a month about the sector and the regulator must do more


In this exclusive report, Ed Miliband tells us he wants


rent-to-own companies to be regulated like payday loan firms,


which since 2015 have had to cap the interest,


The former Labour leader has campaigned against rent-to-own


firms, and he's tried to persuade people to use credit unions instead.


against and he's tried to persuade people to use


The biggest company in the rent-to-own sector


We asked them to take part in our report -


With so much choice on the High Street, we are told


But around five million people in the UK can't get credit.


Lots of people can't borrow money to buy household goods like a TV


or cooker and I'm seeing more and more people turning


to rent-to-own shops like Perfect Home or BrightHouse,


People can get a TV on the spot and pay for it by weekly


instalments, but it can be incredibly expensive.


My constituents have told me they can end up paying


If they miss a payment or are late, the costs spiral, or worse


they lose their TV along with their money.


As leader of the Labour Party and now as a backbench MP,


I've talked about the need for firms to do right by their


BrightHouse have 300 stores across the country, often


One of them is in Doncaster, in my constituency,


and I want to find out what kind of service


I'm concerned that BrightHouse are taking advantage of people


on benefits and working on low incomes.


And in the course of our investigation I have been


that BrightHouse are selling to people with mental health


He suffers with mental health problems, severe mental


Craig is 38, and has autism and cerebral palsy.


His mum Betty says her son didn't understand the BrightHouse contract.


He'll pay but then he has got nothing for himself for food,


Just tell us a bit about what experience


Craig apparently had been in and bought this


I kept seeing it in the house and I didn't really twig.


Then I said how much are you paying for that?


How many times have I said don't touch them with a barge pole?


Do you think it would have been obvious to the BrightHouse staff


that Craig had learning difficulties?


And what was the reaction of BrightHouse when you


complained in the shop and when you wrote to them?


Well, the man in the shop said we go through this thing to make sure


Although Betty believes BrightHouse should have realised her son


was vulnerable, she does say they stopped taking payments


from Craig's account as soon as she told them about his situation


BrightHouse dispute Betty's claims that it would have been obvious that


Craig had learning difficulties as a member of staff


judged Craig to be capable of making his own decisions and had


no reason to believe he wasn't aware of what he was doing.


The Financial Conduct Authority, the body that regulates


If companies have reason to believe that the customer has


a learning disability, they must take reasonable steps


to assist the customer to make an informed decision.


If they believe the customer isn't able to understand the nature


of the agreement then the firm is to make an assessment


of whether it is appropriate to lend.


But I don't think that is clear enough and the guidelines


Paul, not his real name, is another vulnerable adult.


He has learning difficulties and mental health problems.


You've told me that you have some mental health issues and issues


like epilepsy and you describe yourself as quite vulnerable.


Do you want to tell me what you are owing


to them and what goods you've got with them?


How have you ended up with that number of items, do you think?


I think I must have started paying off one.


When you go into the BrightHouse store, what have you said to them


about your own finances and what have they said to you?


This thing is a nice thing and I say, well,


it is but I have got other things to pay.


You can have what you want out of the stores.


Does the whole situation with BrightHouse cause you anxiety?


BrightHouse denies exploiting consumers in vulnerable


circumstances or selling items to people who cannot afford them


and says they have sufficient policies and procedures


in place to prevent these practices from happening.


I think it was a ?300 laptop. We have done.


When you bought it, was that clear to you that


It's all in the small print and stuff.


What kinds of things do you buy from them?


How long have you been a customer for?


If you can't pay, they will help you to sort out your difficulties.


The weekly payments at BrightHouse might seem cheap.


But add in compulsory 5-star service, including delivery


and installation at ?55, and Service Plus, repair


or replacement of your item, which costs ?136, on top of that


interest rates of 69.9% a year and payments spread over three


years, you end up paying a grand total of ?1,092.


This is the first item I got off BrightHouse.


It has got some screws under here that have come loose.


On here there should be another screw.


BrightHouse say they carry out affordability checks to make


sure people can keep up with the weekly repayments.


Angela Jackson says BrightHouse should carry out much more


She has a fridge freezer and a TV stand and has


And how much are you paying for this in total?


Basically if the kid chips it or anything like that.


So nobody went through your finances and said is it affordable?


They just said basically that I could.


They have to know what money I had got.


They didn't go through what I have to pay out, the bill


situation and the children or anything like that.


They just said, "Right, you can have such and such."


I can have anything I want out of the shop.


"Angela, if you introduce somebody, you could get this.


We will take money off your bill, ?50."


Get my bill down a little bit because it's high,


Because it's dear and people who haven't got the money


to just go and do it, they think they can


Just a little bit more expensive and it's there.


Well, she has ended up skinting herself.


She ended up without gas and electric.


Walk on by, that is what I would say.


When I walk in, I am literally a minute.


I just give them my money, my name and address and I go before


anyone comes and badgers me to see if I want anything.


I'm interested in what it looks like on the other side


Zoe left her sales job at BrightHouse after five years


From a personal point of view, you could obviously see that


somebody couldn't afford the items that they wanted.


But if the computer allowed them to add that on to their account,


Do you think it was clear to customers that in relation


to the service agreement, they knew what they were buying?


I think because of the information that's given to a new customer


joining BrightHouse, the amount that was read out to them,


I think it was too much and they didn't quite understand


So did you have experience of selling to people


who had been sold goods and then fell behind and couldn't


People will see something for a small amount each week


and that is the figure they will look at.


In reality the amount they are paying back and the length


of time it would take to pay it back was different.


People would say maybe that is only ?5 per week, I can afford that.


Before they know it they are paying ?100 per week, they are a single


parent with children and it is unaffordable.


Morally I felt as though it was wrong.


I had a few people who were behind on things and got themselves


And did you have experience of people having goods that were faulty


I have had experience of goods going away for repair


and coming back not repaired with the same faults


still or an extra fault or broken or damaged or even lost.


Some customers would have their items sent away


for repair and they would get lost and they would have


As part of their 5-star service, BrightHouse says it offers unlimited


repairs, loan products when required and replacements.


I wanted to speak to BrightHouse, but they declined to be interviewed.


So did the Consumer Credit Trade Association and the Finance


and Leasing Association, the industry bodies


But there are those that make the case that there is a gap


in the market and Perfect Home, BrightHouse and others provide


The fundamental question is whether or not we think these


people should be able to opt into a contract where they pay more


overall, but they have the appliances tomorrow,


or whether or not they shouldn't have these


It's an injustice to tell people that because they are poor


they can't have things that in 2016 we would consider necessities.


Some of these companies are making very big profits at the expense


They're making huge profits because they are taking


We see this with credit card companies as well.


They're making marginal profits because they are loaning out


to people with average credit scores.


These rent-to-own companies are often taking on people


They don't always know if they are going to get their payments.


They are taking on a lot of risk there.


They're getting these profits because they have to ensure down


the line that they are going to get some kind of return.


But in the meantime people who wouldn't have these goods


are getting them to their homes next day delivery.


The regulator, the Financial Conduct Authority, says companies must


provide clear information to their customers and ensure fairness.


I don't believe that's happening for many people


And Citizens Advice agree that there are real problems


They would like the regulator, the FCA, to do more to make sure


We're not suggesting that the whole market should be taken off the face


We do see people in vulnerable situations pushed into further


difficulties, financial difficulty, and then of course emotional stress


and worry due to the nature of the debt that they have taken on.


People who are disabled or with health conditions,


and of course people with mental health conditions as well.


Too often we think that the hire purchase firms offer them very


little in terms of protection, don't do decent enough


affordability checks, and therefore they get themselves


From what I have seen, too often rent-to-own companies


are taking advantage of people who have nowhere else to go.


The regulator needs to stop the most vulnerable in our society


Rent-to-own companies should stop selling goods to people who just


And I think there should be a cap on the total cost that rent-to-own


We have done it with the payday lenders like Wonga


As you'd expect, we asked BrightHouse for an interview


today; they declined - and instead gave us this


statement which says, "We note that this feature


is presented by an avowed critic, who consistently


BrightHouse serves those lower-income families who are


Rent-to-own is a very different proposition


We'll talk to the former Labour leader in the next hour.


Thank you for getting in touch. David on Facebook says, we need


government to stay out of these areas, the free market will


determine the price and not politicians. Philip says, this is an


issue that needs to be looked at, well done. Alan on Facebook Daesh


why did Mr Miliband not do this when he had the chance to do so? Simon


says, Rent to Own is called free trade, improve education if people


cannot cope. Stephen says this is the first time I have looked at Ed


Miliband and thought, good man! As diverse as the treatment of


vulnerable people in the UK is a national disgrace and shames


Britain. I am fed up with the week being targeted. Douglas says on


e-mail, why are you not mentioning credit unions? Largely run by


volunteers, who provide a worthwhile service by offering affordable loans


as well as encouraging saving? And one other viewers says, Ed Miliband


has a new calling- you will next be presenting Watchdog! Please continue


to get in touch. You can contact us


in the normal ways. Still to come: Boris Johnson today


calls it "hysteria" - the state of the country amongst


some of the population With divisions across the country,


in families, in workplaces. We talk to three faith leaders


who are going to try and deliver some soothing words to bring


the country together again. And are you one of those desperately


trying to find a bit of Welsh in you ahead of Wales' semi-final


against Portugal in the Euros? We'll talk about how Wales overcame


Belgium on Friday night and talk Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom


with a summary of today's news. George Osborne has pledged to slash


the amount of tax businesses pay in order to encourage investment


in the wake of the EU In a newspaper interview,


the Chancellor said cutting corporation tax was one of his five


priorities to show the UK He also pledged to maintain


the so-called Northern Powerhouse investment project despite


the Brexit vote. Boris Johnson has accused


the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be


made to work in the UK's interests. In a column in The Daily Telegraph,


the former Leave campaigner says "hysteria" is sweeping parts


of the population who wanted He argues that they need more


reassurance. The former Shadow Business


Secretary, Angela Eagle, has said she'll step in to resolve


the leadership crisis in the Labour Party if Jeremy Corbyn


doesn't step down soon. But, speaking to reporters


outside her house this morning, she accused Mr Corbyn of not


being "properly engaged" with the party's deputy


leader, Tom Watson. He is not properly engaged with even


the Deputy Leader of the party, How many people, MPs and party


members, are asking me And I will if something


is not done soon. Are you still prepared


to run against him? I have the support to run


and resolve this and I will do so if Jeremy does not


take action soon. The Iraqi government has declared


three days of mourning after a bomb in Baghdad killed at least 106 to


five people and wounded about 130. A lorry packed with excuses was


detonated in the capital of families were shopping for the holiday


marking the end of Ramadan. So-called Islamic State says it


carried out the attack. That is the latest news, back at ten o'clock.


And we shall also bring you the support them. This e-mail is to do


with BrightHouse, the firm at Ed Miliband was investigating, I have


been using BrightHouse through number of years and have always set


my own budgets and they have always been helpful and make sure you can


afford them. I personally find them good for me, my contracts are nearly


completed. My contracts make sense and my payments are nearly competed.


Peacekeepers coming in. -- please keep those.


After the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox a week before the referendum,


MPs from all sides called for a new type of politics -


one with less anger and heat, one which tolerates a little more


These are some of the comments we've seen from politicians on social


Last week Conservative MP Nadine Dorries struggled to fight


back her tears as Boris Johnson announced he was backing out


of the Tory leadership race after Michael Gove decided


to withdraw support from Mr Johnson and put himself forward.


She is obviously very angry with Michael Gove. She says...


Michael Gove is a Game of Thrones fan.


In this stinging attack on Twitter Ben Wallace MP,


Boris Johnson's former campaign manager, compared


the Justice Secretary to the character Theon Greyjoy,


who betrayed his adopted family for personal gain and


Threatening to castrate Michael Gove. And that is obviously what


people wanted to take from that. -- what he wanted people.


Ben Wallace has also written in the Telegraph this morning saying


Mr Gove is unfit to be PM - he'd be a security risk


because he has an "emotional need to gossip".


The Conservative MP for Rossendale and Darwen Jake Berry also took


to Twitter declaring that there is a deep pit in hell


MPs of other parties have also vented their frustrations


The Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron referred to the privileged


Oxford Bullingdon Club, infamous for its wealthy members


and trashing of restaurants, when he posted this about Boris


And the Labour MP for Rhondda, Chris Bryant, said Michael Gove's


pitch was the extraordinary bundle of Uriah-Heep-style self conceit


And another Labour MP, David Lammy, had his own observations


on the turmoil in the Tory Party: Two frivolous Etonians


tear the country apart in their own personality feud


Then the winner walks away within a week.


And it's not just MPs who're being vicious.


The referendum result has obviously led to some very happy Leave voters


It's also seen the UK divided on lines of geography,


Families rowing and an increase in racist and xenophobic abuse.


Over the last few days, you may have heard a lot


about a divided Britain, a disunited kingdom, following the


results of the referendum, which showed clear divisions over the


London versus the rest of England, Scotland versus England and


Establishment versus working classes.


A lot of people kicked against the establishment in this


They feel that we only look after ourselves and now look what we


We are not looking after the interests of the nation, we are


just looking after ourselves and what our next job will be.


That one question of whether to leave or remain in the EU


has also caused deep divisions within many families.


We are being respectful of each other's opinions


but I strongly feel the best thing for us


and the younger generation is


Do you respect your mum's vote to leave first of all?


Michael Gove, the Justice Secretary, is


throwing his hat into the ring to be Tory leader.


He had been expected to


back Boris Johnson, the former Mayor of London.


Now he says his fellow Leave campaigner isn't up to the job.


This is Michael Gove plunging a dagger into the back, front, side,


He is at war with his own MPs and it is a war he means to win.


More Shadow Cabinet ministers walked out than stayed


Some say this war could break Labour for good.


I feel I have served in the best way I can and


An 11-year-old boy who found a message of hate.


This is one of the cards that Mattias found


on his way to school on


Friday, just hours after the referendum result was declared.


Graffiti on the Polish cultural centre in London is another example


of the hate many Poles predicted the referendum would bring.


Our guest says she has been abused three times


There were guys yelling abuse at me to get out of


the country from the other side of the platform.


It was a packed platform and nobody said anything.


The senior politicians in the Leave campaign now,


what are they going to do to rein this in?


So that's the division and this morning religious leaders


are joining together on this programme to call for unity


and tolerance in the wake of the EU referendum result.


We can speak now to Rabbi Danny Rich, the Chief Executive


of Liberal Judaism, Imam Qari Muhammad Asim,


who joins us from Leeds, and Dr Graham Tomlin,


who's the Bishop of Kensington in London.


I want to ask all of you individually, how do you assess the


level of division in the UK right now? There certainly is division, I


would use the language of uncertainty, there is a great eve of


uncertainty as to what the future will be like for lots of people.


Wondering what our future coming out of the European Union will be like


and for people who have come here from overseas, wondering if there is


still a place where they still feel welcome? Can they still make a home


here? There is division and uncertainty and a lot of fear. Rabbi


Rich, how do you assess this? There has always been division and the


referendum has allowed people to say things that had become unspeakable


and we are hearing reports across the country of people being abused


in the streets because they look different or appear to be European,


despite the fact they may be British, and comments like go back


home and we are out to get you, never mind the more extreme acts. It


is quite worrying and it is the task of legislators, because nobody else


seems to be able to do it, to bring the community together and remember


what we have in common and the values we need to share. How would


you assess the levels of division? I think that the post-Brexit vote has


given you find confidence to far right extremists who have always


held these years and what is different this time is up in the


past might have been attacks on particular community whereas if you


look different now, if you speak a different language or have a


different accent, you could potentially be under attack and that


is what is happening around the country. There was also division


within families and within churches, synagogues and mosques, workplaces,


schools, isn't there? There is. You can draw a line through all sorts of


communities. In my part of West London there is quite a bit of


division around this issue and it seems to me that this is precisely


the time when we need to come together to say that we are one


country, a country that has always been very welcoming to all sorts of


people from around the world, one of the wealthier and more stable


countries. That is our vocation to do that but we cannot get too hung


up about division, we must think about how to rebuild the sense of


unity and the sense that this country is a welcoming place to


live. Rabbi Rich, to pick up on that, there are many things we have


in common, despite the fact that we might have differences over how


people voted in this referendum vote? Yes, we have the thing, what


are our values? They will have to be protected. Even though some people


might attempt to punish people who they think voted the wrong way, that


is not how a value led society works, it works on protecting the


vulnerable and making people welcome, whether you are here or


might come here and reflecting on our national and international


responsible it is. We will not heal with the problem of millions of


people moving and becoming refugees of the global climate challenge, if


that is what needs to be dealt with, on our own. I think that patriotism


is laudable, selfish nationalism is not so notable. Who is responsible


for these divisions? Unfortunately, the language, rhetoric and


underpinning material used by parts of the Leave campaign has given new


found confidence to far right extremists and helps to legitimise


some of their concerns that they might have expressed in close


quarters before. Whatever happens, we are trying to rebuild Britain and


that should be built on the basis of tolerance and the values that we


always share together in this country. And initiatives like more


in common, there needs to be political stability, which is


lacking, and also civil society needs to come forward and say,


enough is enough. We need to move on. To rebuild Britain. That should


not be Do you acknowledge there was


intolerance shown to people who voted to Leave. Some have been


called racist when they are not. People have voted to leave for a


variety of reasons and not every single person who voted to leave is


a racist or bigoted, but the dominant campaign has, was


intolerant towards minority communities, intolerant towards


Muslims, intolerant towards migrants and all of that has given new-found


confidence to people who have always held these views against minorities.


I have not really seen anything from the pro-leave campaign which is


robust enough to actually calm the divisions down in our country.


Right. So therefore, you feel it falls to Faith Leaders. Is your


voice heard? Is your voice, do people listen to you? I think what's


really important is what's happening at grass-roots. One of my churches


in my area which is near the Polish centre which had graffiti plastered


over it. They got a card and the congregation to sign the card and


they will be delivering that today as a gesture of solidarity to Polish


people in that part of London. I was in a school last week, a church


school in my area which is around 83% non-white, but is a remarkable


example of racial harmony and really of very good achieving school. So it


seems to me, it is partly us saying that, if you like, as religious


leaders, but it is on the roots, encouraging people to reach out to


their neighbours and make the effort to go across the road and say, "We


value your presence here." Which is what churches and synagogues and


mosques are doing elsewhere in the country. Do you believe we still do


have a well of sievity in this country or just perhaps miss placed


it? Undoubtedly. Many of the persons who claim to be fearful of


immigrants don't have many of them in the area. And what's very


interesting is that, it is our task on a local level to make people


people feel they are not abandoned, whether they be from other


minorities, other European countries, we are trying to reassure


some of our European members that they're not unwelcomed. We just had


our by annum and a number of fement living in particular areas where


they voted Leave felt they weren't welcome. A German said, "I'm going


back." What did you say to that person? I tried to reassure them.


Even people who voted Leave, may not have voted because they hate Germans


or they don't like the German people. They voted either out of


protest or alienation about their own situation or some of them may


have voted because the EU is not a perfect institution by any means at


all. But our task locally is to build those links because that's


really where it matters and nationally to change the tone of


debate about Europe and many other matters in this society. Thank you


very much all of you. Thank you for coming on the programme. Thank you.


Some messages on social media from you. This is about the rent-to-own


sector, the rent-to-own companies, the former Labour leader, Ed


Miliband, presented a report earlier highlighting his concerns that


perhaps vulnerable people, with mental health problems, or learning


difficulties, were signing contracts for goods from rent-to-own firms


that they didn't really understand. This tweet from Dave, "Well done for


highlighting this." Julia tweets, "Well done, that was an important


subject excellently presented." Catherine texted, "It is sad that


companies shop at companies like BrightHouse. People who are poor


can't afford to save for a rainy day fund. They can't get a loan and


afford to buy new and charity shops are too expensive. John says, "I


applaud Ed Miliband for his efforts to better regulate rent-to-own


company. I question the success against companies like Wonga. How is


this a success?" Damon, "Great stuff from Ed. His argument for a cap is


compelling." Another viewer tweeted, "BrightHouse and companies like them


should have more regulation." Jessica says, "I'm 24 and I have


bipolar. Rent-to-own cost me my job and my health. My bill is ?68 per


week and no helps you if you can't afford her payments. There is a


charge per item if you're late with your weekly payment. They are


awful." More on that after 10am. BrightHouse say rent-to-own is


different to other forms of retail and they undertake extensive


affordability assessments. If you want to share the full film by Ed


Miliband, former Labour leader, you can find it on our programme page.


We will talk to him live after 10am this morning.


We'll be joined by senior Tories, one in the Cabinet,


another a former minister, who will tell us, exclusively


who they're backing as the next Conservative leader.


So Wales are now just one game away from reaching the Euro 2016 final.


The captain heads home the equaliser.


Something special is happening here tonight.


Wales are going into the semifinals.


If you work hard enough and you are not afraid to dream


I have had more failures than I have had success


We are enjoying this win and I think we deserve it.


It's 58 years since Wales last qualified for a football tournament


and on Wednesday, they face Portugal in the semi-finals.


This from a team which was ranked 112 in the world.


Manager Chris Coleman says they thrive on being the underdogs,


and as you heard him just say - they're not afraid of failure.


So how have Wales managed to do so well?


Matthew Syed is a sports journalist and author


who has spent a lot of time looking at the pyschology of sport.


Let's start with that post-match interview that Chris Coleman gave.


What did you make of it first of all? Well, I loved it. I just want


to point out I'm half Welsh! Good for you. I feel very strongly about


that at the moment. It was a really significant interview because he


said, "I've failed. I made mistakes but I've learned. Now I don't fail


failure." You look at England football team and it is almost as if


in their minds when they're playing they're thinking what if I misdirect


the pass, am I going to be the one that's scapegoated. That narrows


their creativity. They can't come up with adventurous football. It oozed


out of them. What Wales have got and Coleman described it brilliantly in


the post-match interview is they are looking at the possibilities rather


than the potential down sides. They are not afraid of doing interesting


things. Robson Karen u, can you imagine an England player doing that


in the box? Maybe in the Premier League. Maybe in the Premier League,


but not for the country, that's the thing. How do you get to a point in


your mind where you are not afraid to fail? It is easy to say, isn't


it? It is easy to say and there is a lot of evidence on this and


interesting evidence. It is to do with the way you frame failure, how


you think about it, do you see it as an indictment of who are, do you see


it as a reason to give up, do you see it as something that's


profoundly negative or a risk worth taking sth something that you could


learn from? Something that would lead to fantastic possibilities.


Just a redefinition of failure changes the interpretational


process. OK. A really good example is Beckham. He failed in a really


graphic way if you might rewining to 1998, you remember when he got sent


off. I thought somewhat unfairly, but we've understood why it


happened. The nexts season, he was vilified and turned into a dartboard


and he was booed, he had his best season ever. He won the treble for


Manchester United, he was Fifa player of the world, voted second


and I asked him how did that happen? He said, "I didn't think of that


failure as a reason to give up. I saw it as a great learning


opportunity. You don't kick out at somebody. Think of our children,


they don't like to ask questions in case they get it wrong. We're


crippled by a fear of looking less good than we want to look and that


stops us from growing and adapting and becoming the people we can


become. Pm Let's talk to some Wash fans. How


are you? Very good, thank you. You must still be on a high after Friday


night? Yeah. It has been good. Definitely. We travelled over to


legal and came back the same night, but I can't remember too much of the


journey back to be honest! Let's introduce Thomas Edwards and Cassey


Taylor. How are you? Good morning. I think Thomas and Cassey you booked a


holiday to Nice which is where you are now, thinking Wales would never


make it this far! Yeah, that's right. We booked it six


months ago not thinking that Wales would be still playing in the


tournament so now we've got to drive to Lyon on Wednesday afternoon and


try and find some match tickets hopefully. That might be tough to


get hold of a match ticket, even if you're in the area, you can unite


with other Wales fans, can't you? We thought we couldn't be so close and


not go up. That's our plan really. To get involved in the atmosphere.


Gerald and Luke, how have Wales managed to get this far? I think it


is about, probably about the system and our team spirit probably. They


played together. They worked hard for each other and yeah, they've


done really well. Thomas, what's your assessment of how they've got


this far? I think it is the passion and the work ethic and like Luke


said the team spirit of the players. I have not seen team spirit in any


other team like that ever before. You look at other teams in the


tournament, Portugal, Spain, Germany, I don't think anyone has


got the same team spirit we had. I think that's what carried us this


far. Case, what's your view? I think it is the fans. We were in the fan


zone on Friday and everyone was so excited, I never saw anything like


it. Wales won four out of five games and Portugal failed to win in 90


minutes, what do you read into that in terms of Wednesday night? Well, I


really fancy us. What we saw in the second half against Belgium was that


the Belgium team, as good as they were, were playing as individuals


and Portugal have a tendency to do the same. They are not as


disciplined and I think that will play to our strengths really. I'm


confident. OK, what about you Luke? Yeah, I feel the same. I feel Ramsay


is a big loss and Ben Davis, but Johnny Williams can come in and he


has done well and Connor is decent, if they played like they have


throughout the tournament, they'll do well. Thank you very much for


talking to us. Thomas and Cassey I hope you get tickets of the Matthew,


what are you expecting? Rnlts I think it is 50/50. For me, more than


anything else, this is a triumph of the team over the individual. It is


like the Leicester store European Commission the players weren't the


best in the world, but when you have that spirit, it is amazing what can


be achieved. They have worked for each other and they've done runs for


each other and you can see how this is creating the old cliche, the team


is more than some of the parts. Rob e-mailed, "I see people making links


to Welsh roots. I have a leak in my kitchen. I have a crush on Catherine


Jenkins, surely this counts! ". Coming up, we'll be hearing


from Nigel Farage who is giving a speech setting out what Ukip


intends to do next after He is due to speak pretty soon


actually. So we'll bring you some of that speech as soon as he begins


talking. Let's get the latest


weather update with Ben. In some parts there is fine and dry


weather to come. The further north and west you are, we will see spells


of rain at times. So let's take a look at detail and as I've mentioned


to sum things up, the further south and east you are, things look dry.


There will be sunshine in the sunshine and things will feel warm,


but further north and west, yes, we will see some brispells, but -- dry


spells. We have rain moving across into Scotland and parts of North


Wales as we go on through the day. For the far north of Scotland, it is


a mixture of sunshine and showers. To the south, a lot of dry weather,


a fair amount of cloud, but some brightness. And it will feel humid


with highs of 22 or 23 Celsius. This evening and tonight, cloudy


conditions for most. Some outbreaks of rain, but it will clear away and


the skies will start to clear by the end of the night. Cooler, fresher


conditions pushing in across the north-west, a cooler fresher day


tomorrow. Quite a breezy day. There will be a fair amount of sunshine


and showers across Scotland. Some showers could be on the heavy side


and temperatures ranging from 15 Celsius in the north to 21 Celsius


dm the south. That's all for now. Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire -


welcome to the programme. Let's go straight to Nigel Farage. I


am aware that not everybody in this country is happy, a lot of young


people happy mind up I scare stories and ivory angry and scared about the


future. It is an irony that it is the youth of the country who appear


to be worried, across the whole of the European Union it is the under


30s that are protesting on the streets against undemocratic


centralised control and, indeed, against the euro and virtually


everything that emanates from Brussels. In time, I hope that some


of these sharp divisions can be healed when people start to realise


that actually, life outside the European Union is very exciting. And


we have a much better, right future of being in charge of our own lives


and the stock markets, despite everything George Osborne told us,


have rallied strongly, the FTSE is about 14% higher bands in the


February low and there is a great number of Commonwealth countries


rushing forward in a bidding war to be the first people to sign a free


trade deal with an independent United Kingdom. What the country


needs is strongly Bishop, it needs direction, it needs not business as


usual. I'm certain of one thing - that the United Kingdom will leave


the European Union. We have won that. And in terms of Parliament and


the courts, that is a great, historic victory. What I am certain


of is what real is this government going to cut? And we need a new


Prime Minister who puts down some pretty clear red lines that were not


going to give him on issues like free movement and we need a Prime


Minister who will not sell us out to what is known as the single market


but effectively a big business protectionist cartel. We need a


vision from the new leader, a vision that shows we will engage with the


world and turn us into an enterprise economy. To do that and to achieve


that, we need a team of negotiators that include figures from across the


political spectrum which reflects that Brexit vote and, crucially, we


need some business people who know not only how the world works but


understand the importance of lobbying industry directly. We need


to be lobbying the German car industry, the French wine producers,


because next year, but France and Germany have general elections. It


is pressure on Angela Merkel, one Francois Hollande, from within those


countries, that is likely to get us the best deal. And we need to go


global and there is no reason to wait for this at all. As soon as we


get the new Prime Minister we need teams of negotiators. I am told we


don't have the skill or the confidence or the expertise, within


our own Civil Service, which I suppose is a price you pay when you


give away the ability to run your own country. That is headhunt, get


them in from Singapore and South Korea or Chile or Switzerland or any


of these countries who have managed to achieve far more in terms of


global trade deals than we have as part of the European Union. We are


not in charge of our own future. I want us to grab this opportunity


with both hands. One of the questions being asked is, what about


Ukip? What is the future after this result? We have clearly established


ourselves as a third political force in this country and this year we


need to extend that collective representation to the Welsh Assembly


and to the London Assembly. There is no doubt that without us, without


the growth in Ukip, there would not have been a referendum and there was


no doubt that when it came to the ground campaign in this referendum,


it was the People's army of Ukip who were out there delivering leaflets,


putting up the posters and doing all that work that needed desperately to


be done. And I do believe myself that it is Ukip and the Ukip


messages that inspired nonvoters to go out there and make a difference.


Without Ukip, there is no way the leave vote would have got over the


line. Ukip needs to be strong. We need to be strong and push to try to


make sure that this country gets the best possible terms. And in


electoral terms, while the party has built up a very loyal following of


people, they want to go out and vote Ukip at every given opportunity and


they see as has been the 1-party that is actually prepared to stand


up for ordinary, decent people. I feel that the deeper the crisis in


the Labour Party becomes, and there is no sign of that going away, and


the further the Parliamentary Labour Party and the Labour leadership get


away from their voters, I feel perhaps that is perhaps where our


greatest potential lies. Ukip right now is in a very solid financial


position, I do believe we need some reform of its management structures,


there is further professionalism that needs to be done, but the party


is in a pretty good place. Certainly compared to all the others. And if


we do not get, if we do not get a satisfactory Brexit deal, that,


allied to the woes of the Labour Party and that groundswell of


support that is amongst Ukip loyalists, if we don't get a good


Brexit deal that in 2020, watch this space. And the other subject of


speculation has been, what am I going to do? Well, all I can say on


this long journey is a huge thanks to everybody who has helped me, many


are in this room, and it has been a very long journey. Not at every


stage of the way an easy one. Although most of it, I have to say,


has been tremendous fun. When I think back to when I first stood for


Ukip, for anybody, in the East by-election, which took place in


1994, and I managed to scrape past screaming Lord such by a massive 164


votes, and to have gone from that to being part of a national campaign


that attracted 17.5 million votes for the Brexit, that says to me that


although it has been tough at times, it has certainly been worth it. I


came into politics from business because I believe that this nation


should be self-governing. I have never been and never wanted to be a


career politician. My aim in being in politics was to get Britain out


of the European Union, that is what we voted for in that referendum two


weeks ago and that is why I now feel that I have done my bit but I could


not possibly achieve more than we managed to get in that referendum


and so I feel it is right that I should stand aside as either of


Ukip. I will continue to support the party and support the new leader and


a double what the negotiation process in Brussels like a hawk and


perhaps comment in the European Parliament from time to time. I am


also very keen to help the independence movements springing up


in other parts of the European Union because I am certain of one thing-


we have not seen the last country that wants to leave the European


Union. It has been a huge chunk of my life doing this and it is not


easy perhaps when you feel a degree of ownership of something to let it


go. But it does come at a cost to me and perhaps to those around me.


During the referendum campaign I said I want my country back. What I


am saying today is I want my life back. And it begins right now. Thank




Nigel Farage, the former leader of Ukip, he has just said he has done


his bit, here standing down as leader, it is right to stand aside,


it sounded like it is effective from right now. And he said it is right


for a new leader to take over. I will watch like hot, he says, as the


UK gets involved in this Brexit Hoseasons and I will perhaps


comment, he says, from time to time in the European Parliament. He is


not leaving politics altogether, just as leader as -- of Ukip. He


says the main aim was to get Britain out of the EU, which he says he has


achieved and he also says if they don't get a satisfactory Brexit


deal, in 2020 watch this space. Norman Smith is at Westminster.


Nigel Farage wants his life back? He has stood down before? I think he


means at this time, it would be a bit much to quit once, go back and


then do that again. He seems to mean it. Because he believes they have


achieved their long-term ambition, what Ukip was set up for, what he


went into politics for, to get written out of the European Union.


He argues that Ukip isn't much -- is in a much better position, they


don't need to carry on, they are the third party in British politics and


let us hear what he has to say... I will not be changing my mind again,


I can promise you. You said you wanted a strong leader who could


secure a Brexit deal and a new Prime Minister, which candidate to you


feel is best for that? Is at Andrea Leadsom? I am not related to Alan


Banks! I am not in a civil partnership with him! He has


supported Ukip but many Eurosceptic causes and he is one of the great


heroes of this movement. But his picks for himself and I think we


have to have a Brexit Prime Minister. We have to have somebody


who was bold and has vision, this is a big moment in the history of this


country. There are three candidates in support of the Brexit campaign


and I am not going to down any one of them by offering their support at


this moment. But I wanted very much to be one of the three. This is not


a moment for business as usual, this is a moment for radical leadership,


for inspiration, and to take advantage of this unbelievable


global opportunity before us. But when Bennett. Are you therefore


going to lead logics? You are going to form a new party with Alan Banks


or other Eurosceptics? I've do like this chap but I get bored with these


questions. No, I have made it clear I am starting aside, I would see out


my time in the European Parliament, I will go on cold reading that group


and I will watch very carefully once Article 50 has been triggered, how


those negotiations go. And I will continue to support Ukip, a party in


a very good position, in a very sound position, one or two reforms


need making, one or two steps up, but I will go on supporting Ukip and


the leadership and let us see what happens. Honestly, if the government


does not get a good deal, if it gets in over free movement, if it


concedes over this dreadful single market, then I think Ukip's best


days have yet to come. Notwithstanding what you said about


candidates, do you see the potential for closer cooperation whenever that


goes with the Conservative Party that is led by someone that you find


acceptable overtime? Could we be moving in that direction? If there


was to be a General Election this autumn, I do not think there will


be, but if there was, my own view would be that Ukip should not be


wasting resources and talent and energy I guess people who have the


guts to stand up against their own party leaderships and fight for the


Brexit. Longer term, depending on who becomes a go, we might see a


different kind of politics and the less said the effects have been


seismic, I fully expect within the next couple of years that he will


see some different parties in British politics. You likely hood


that a wing of the Labour Party and Lib Dems get together is required


high. For all of you at Westminster, you think the last week has been


George Lucas, I expect there is more to come. -- to modules. What sort of


real do you envisage Ukip having within these negotiations? Do you


have to be part of the team? And what did you make of Philip


Hammond's few that will have to be some sort of concession free


movement? For any access to the single market?


I think it is desirable is a cross-party element to these


negotiations. Because that reflects the vote. That reflects the


cross-party nature of the Eurosceptic movement. But more


important than that is that we use people who genuinely understand how


Brussels works, and who have extensive networks and contacts.


With the German car industry, you know, with French manufacturers, or


wine producers... The idea we should approach these negotiations simply


as an elected politicians from one party meeting in corridors in


Brussels is the wrong approach. It needs more breadth, more


imagination. An absolute priority is to bring in business people. But a


desirability. And, again, a message to the country, to try and bring


people together. To make people understand this is about more than


the Conservative Party who happened to be in government, it is about our


country, choosing a new course... Look, I have no idea whether they


want ask me, or anybody else in Ukip to be a part of this. But we as a


party actually have some good knowledge how Brussels works. And we


have some pretty senior business figures amongst our supporters. As


for what deal the government cuts, Jess, I understand already we are


beginning to hear people saying that, actually, there will be


backsliding. -- yes. 17.5 million people voted very clearly for us to


be an independent nation that isn't part of the customs union called the


single market. And without the free movement of people. I suspect...


What we will do is try and keep the pressure on. But if they do give


way, then I repeat the point, that as far as Ukip is concerned, for the


2020 elections, you ain't seen nothing yet. ITV News, what will you


do next? Would you like to be part of the team that negotiates Brexit?


And, who do you think should be the next leader of Ukip, Douglas Castle


might have a good argument. That is a terribly good idea. I like that.


-- Douglas Carswell. CHUCKLES


I repeat the point that come as you know, we have the biggest allegation


of British MEPs in the European Parliament. We will necessarily be a


part of this process, whether it is formally, or informally, because


much of what is discussed will get debated and voted upon in the


European Parliament. So we will do that. If they Brexit government


wants to use Ukip foot Ukip because more, and it should think about


Labour figures, as well, that will be all for the good -- or Ukip


members. May the best man or best woman when, I say. -- win. An


interesting thing has happened since the victory. A lot of the


Conservative Party wanted Brexit have been trying to back away from


you as fast as possible. And back away from your campaign. I just


wondered how you felt about that. They say it is nothing to do with


you, nothing to do with immigration, it was about a Carswellian


sovereignty idea. Do you agree with that?


CHUCKLES As I said, I'm not a career


politician. That is how career politicians think and speak. They


think about the tribe of their party before their conscience,


constituents, or country. It is a great relief to sit here and say, I


will step aside... So what will actually happen now is in future I


will not be constrained when I answer questions like that. The real


me will now come out. CHUCKLES


They can, you know, make it up as much as they want. Look, I repeat


the point, there would not have been a referendum without Ukip, there


would not have been an effective ground game in the leave campaign


without the Ukip People's Army. Unless we take on some of those


issues that many in Westminster, or at smart dinner parties in Notting


Hill find it a bit tricky, unless we take one of those we would not have


all those nonvoters to turn out. And that is what made the difference and


got us over the line. You still have at least two years of service as an


MEP. Are you going to serve it out in full and take part in


proceedings? And during the negotiations will you try and


influence from within the parliament and the party? Yes, of course. There


will be a strong Ukip voice in that parliament during these


renegotiations. And if we see significant sliding, or weakness...


Or frankly appeasement from the British government, we will


certainly say so. Are we going to see out to mark the years? Well, I


hope the next Prime Minister is somebody who intends to roll up


their sleeves, and complete the job, well within two years, and then we


will be like the turkeys who voted for Christmas. -- otherwise we will


be like. Do you think the tone you took in the European Parliament last


week was a kid negotiating tactic which will help us get the best deal


for the UK? -- good negotiating tactic. I got up to speed after what


was, without doubt, the worst event ever in the history of the European


union project. I was so howled down, and shouted down, that twice Martin


Schulz sprang to my defence. I've never seen this happen before with


him. But it was quite extraordinary. It showed the fact that they are


simply not prepared to listen. They will continue with their political


projects, which is why it is doomed. In the face of many catcalls and a


huge amount of abuse, they got just a tiny piece of my mind back. And,


actually, how we should negotiate? Well, all I will say is that if we


start to be weak, if we start to concede in these negotiations, we


will get a rotten deal. We need a Prime Minister that recognises that,


actually, we have got the trump cards, and we have got the trump


cards because we buy a lot more from them than they do from us. The


opportunity for Brexit actually comes before the general elections


-- the German elections and the French elections. We need to stand


up for ourselves. Some of these arguments, that we cannot get access


to the single market unless we are members of that single market...


Just looking at the figures yesterday, something like nearly 1.5


euros trillion worth of goods were sold into the Eurozone last year by


countries who don't even have a trade deal. Let's recognise the


strength of our negotiating position. Andrew Sinclair, if we are


now going to hear from the real you, can I ask you, what have you made of


the various attempts to try to answer each year in the past, and


will you now bury the hatchet with Douglas Carswell? I will bury the


hatchet with anybody. Look... When you lead a political party, and I


have been doing this for quite a while, you make decisions along the


way not everybody is happy with. Your style will not suit everybody.


I have no desire to do anything other than to fully support the aims


of Ukip and the next leader. And as I work with the person making all of


the decisions, that may involve falling out with people, as well.


INAUDIBLE It may well be, get down to the


bookies, but I would not put too much on it myself. Daily Mirror,


what conversations have you had with either Andrea Leadsom or Aaron Banks


about the Tory leadership? And are you putting yourself forward to be a


member of the team negotiating Brexit in Brussels? I'm not putting


myself forward. I did spend 20 years in business. I've spent a lot of


time in Brussels. I may have something to give if they want it,


if they don't, then that is fine. As for who I am speaking to... I speak


to Aaron Banks regularly, but I repeat the point, I don't do


everything he suggests. STUDIO: Ukip are also looking for a


new leader this morning, alongside the Conservative Party, so here are


some messages. This is what you are saying about this breaking news.


Everything how UK politicians should be saying instead of infighting and


pushing personal agenda, says one person. Paul says, how long is he


resigning for this time? Audrey says Nigel Farage is shouted down for


talking about the issues which are real men this country. Love him or


hate him, he tackles subjects most people don't wish to engage with. --


which are real in this country. Nigel Sears, don't go, Nigel, we


need you! And another tweaked, this is a resignation speech, Carswell


has ousted him. -- Nigel says. No love lost between them. Carswell


Has just tweeted a smiley face, and that is all. The two are daggers


drawn. There has been a rift between them for some time. Interesting that


Nigel Farage said we are the turkeys who voted for Christmas. I wonder


if, at the end of the day, he has concluded he cannot do anything more


with Ukip. They've gone as far as they could go. They have the Brexit


referendum they wanted. Where do they go now? What is the point of


Ukip now? If there is backsliding over the negotiations he says he


will look out. Ukip will still be a force, etc. But he has been at this


for a long time. He may feel he has gone as far as he can go. But isn't


it amazing, in the wake of this EU referendum, everything has changed?


David Cameron, George Osborne, pretty much finished. Boris Johnson,


finished. Michael Gove finished. Jeremy Corbyn clinging on. One of


the key fixtures of our political landscape just seem to be


disappearing. And all because of this huge force unleashed by the EU


referendum. Nigel Farage said he would stay on as an MEP for two


years, but I suspect this time he will walk. I don't think he will


think I want to come back. I got the sense he feels he has gone now


pretty much as far as he can go. What is interesting is he is such a


divisive figure, frankly, you talk to people in the Leave campaign and


they were desperate to keep him at arm 's length. Yet in that whole


campaign he kept getting in the headlights. Think of that very


controversial post of that picture of the EU migrants queueing. Think


of his remarks about Cologne and sex attacks. He kept on dominating the


headlines. Listening to him, he basically said the referendum was


won by Ukip because they managed to get out those people who do not


traditionally vote. He said it was Ukip who got people out who


otherwise would not have turned out to this referendum. In other words,


it was Ukip's victory, and he is now bailing out.


Thank you. More reaction to come. As well as this. Who will take over the


Conservative leadership, who is heading to number ten? We will find


out who two senior Tories will be backing. And Ed Miliband has been


investigating renter on companies for this programme and we will talk


to him live in the programme and we will also get his reaction to Nigel


Farage's resignation. -- rent-to-own companies.


Nigel Farage has resigned as leader of Ukip. Speaking in London he said


Ukip is in a strong position and does not need his leadership any


more. He said there would not have been a referendum on Britain's


ownership on the EU without Ukip. He said he had now achieved his goal. I


have never been and I have never wanted to be a career politician. My


aim in being in politics was to get Britain out of the European Union.


That is what we voted for in that referendum two weeks ago. That is


why I now feel I have done my bit. That I couldn't possibly achieve


more than what we managed to get in that referendum. So I feel it is


right I should now stand aside as leader of Ukip.


George Osborne has pledged to slash the amount of tax businesses pay


in order to encourage investment in the wake


In a newspaper interview, the Chancellor said cutting


corporation tax was one of his five priorities to show the UK


He also pledged to maintain the northern powerhouse project despite


the Brexit vote. Boris Johnson has accused


the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be


made to work in the UK's interests. The former leave campaign says


hysteria is sweeping parts of the population who wanted to remain in


the EU. He argues that they need more


reassurance. The Iraqi government has declared


three days of national mourning after a bomb in the capital of


Baghdad wounded about 150 people and killed about 60. A lorry packed with


explosives was detonated in a busy shopping area. Islamic State says


they carried out the attack. Join me for BBC newsroom live at 11 o'clock.


See you then. We did miss some sports bulletins,


but Nick has stepped into the breach! I will make it up! Thanks,


Victoria, here are your sports headlines. Andy Murray will play the


Australian firebrand Nick Kyrgios in the last 16 on Centre Court today.


Murray has been playing down talk of being the favourite, after Novak


Djokovic's shock exit on Saturday. There was an epic match on court


two, Jo Wilfred Tsonga of France beating the American John Isner


19-17 in the decider. You might remember Isner beat Tsonga's


compatriot Nicolas Mahut 70-68 in a fifth set six years ago. Reigning


champion Serena Williams powered into the fourth round with a


straights sets victory over Annika Beck. Williams claimed her 300th


Grand Slam win in just 51 minutes, losing only three games along the


way. She now faces 13th seed Svetlana Kuznetsova of Russia.


Oaks Wales have been training at their camp in Brittany, ahead of


their European Championship semifinal against Portugal on


Wednesday. There are decisions to be made over who'll replace the


suspended Aaron Ramsey and Ben Davies.


And Iceland's dream run at the European Championship is over, after


hosts France beat them 5-2 in Paris to reach the semi-finals. Arsenal's


Olivier Giroud scored twice for France, who play Germany on


Thursday. And six-time champion jockey Kieran Fallon has retired


from the saddle. He's won 16 British Classic races in his career but he


had a fall on the gallops last week and trainer Michael O'Callaghan said


that at the age of 51, Fallon just doesn't bounce like he used to. I


think you should sit on the couch and just watch the racing! County


comeback tomorrow? I will be back! The start of a wonderful new


relationship, I can tell! In an exclusive report for this


programme the former Labour Leader Ed Miliband is calling


for better regulation He wants to see a cap introduced


on the amount of interest Rent-to-own companies


allow shoppers to pay for items such as TVs,


games consoles, fridges and washing machines in weekly instalments,


spread over years with interest. But consumers can end up paying up


to three times more for the product and we've discovered that some


companies are selling these goods to vulnerable people with mental


health problems and learning difficulties which has resulted


in concerns they may not understand The Citizens Advice Bureau tells us


it receives thousands of complaints a month about the sector


and the regulator must do more Ed Miliband has campaigned


against rent to own - Brighthouse is the largest


firm in the sector - and he thinks people should use


credit unions instead. Here's a short extract


of his exclusive report As leader of the Labour Party


and now as a backbench MP, I have talked about the need


for firms to do right by their BrightHouse have 300


stores across the country, One of them is in Doncaster,


in my constituency. I am concerned that BrightHouse


are taking advantage of people on benefits


and working on low incomes. In the course of our investigation


I have been really shocked to find that BrightHouse are selling


to people with mental health Paul, not his real name,


asked us to hide his identity. He has learning difficulties


and mental health problems. Do you want to tell me


what you are owing to them and what goods you have got


with them? How have you ended up with five


items, do you think? BrightHouse denies exploiting


consumers in vulnerable circumstances or selling items


to people who clearly cannot afford them and says they have sufficient


policies and procedures in place to prevent these


practices from happening. The Financial Conduct Authority,


the body that regulates the rent-to-own sector,


told us: But I don't think that's clear enough and the guidelines


need to be stricter. The weekly payments at BrightHouse


may seem cheap, but the total But add in compulsory 5-star


service, that includes delivery and installation at ?55,


and Service Plus, repair or replacement of your item,


that costs ?136, on top of that interest rates of 69.9% per year


and payments spread over three years, you end up paying


a grand total of ?1092. I wanted to speak to BrightHouse


but they declined to be interviewed. So did the Consumer Credit Trade


Association and the Finance And Leasing Association,


the industry bodies There are those who make


the case that there is a gap in the market and Perfect Home,


BrightHouse and others provide The fundamental question


is whether or not we think these people should be able to opt


into a contract where they pay more overall but they have the appliances


tomorrow, or whether or not they shouldn't have these


appliances at all. It is an injustice to tell


people at the bottom that because they are poor they can't


have things that in 2016 From what I have seen,


too often rent-to-own companies are taking advantage of people


who have nowhere else to go. The regulator needs to stop the most


vulnerable in our society Rent-to-own companies need to stop


selling goods to people I think there should be a cap


on the total cost rent-to-own It has been done with


the payday lenders like We wanted to speak to someone


from BrightHouse on the programme today but they declined -


instead they gave us "We note that this feature


is presented by an avowed critic, who consistently


misrepresents our business. BrightHouse serves those


lower-income families who are We can speak to Ed Miliband,


former leader of the Labour Party and MP for Doncaster North and also


to Ryan Bourne, who is head of public policy at the Institute


of Economic Affairs, think tank. Welcome. What is wrong with the


shops providing this service to people who cannot afford to pay for


things up front with cash or who do not qualify for a credit card?


Because the costs are exorbitant. Often three times the price on the


High Street, because they are selling without clear information to


people about what they are buying, they are selling to people who


cannot afford to buy and they are only together all sorts of things,


like 5-star service, which you have no option but to pay for, so there


is a host of things wrong with this sector. In the end, it isn't a good


deal for my constituents and from my experience, I became an avowed


critic as BrightHouse say I am. They say they carry out extensive


affordability assessments and the customer knows what they will end up


paying? I do not think that is right, we heard in the longer


version of the film on the website, Zoe from BrightHouse, she said I do


not feel proper affordability checks are being done, I felt I was selling


to people who cannot really afford to pay and we talked again to people


in the film who did not really look at all of the finances and you have


had responses already to the film of people saying, I have got into


terrible trouble. The response from somebody with bipolar disorder who


is paying ?68 every week to the rent-to-own sector, which has been


ignored for too long. The regulator needs to look at these practices and


the rules that govern that sector. Is Ed Miliband right? To be fair,


his BT was conflating two different issues, selling to people who have


mental health issues, that should be governed by regulation and it is, as


the NCA knowledge. But the other thing is, he seems to be saying,


because these products are expensive he needs some price cap and people


will not have to pay so much. The problem with these price controls


and I know he has advocated these in the past for the mental and energy


sectors, if you constrain the amount of profits that companies can make,


constrain pricing, they can provide less of it in the first place. It is


all very well saying some people pay lots of money for a washing machine,


but if the alternative is to go to an expensive launderette on a weekly


basis, then you can see why some people choose to make this decision


even though it may be expensive overall. There are do need to be


alternatives and our social enterprises selling at a fraction of


the price and some of the rent-to-own sector but I think the


customer needs protection. Like the payday lending sector, if years ago


was a real scandal and there are still problems there. The fact that


a cap has been applied as, according to Citizens Advice, reduced by 50%


the number of people coming to them saying they have problems with


payday lenders. I am not saying a price cap is a total panacea and it


solves a problem but I just do not think that interest rates of 70%


seem fair or right and I think the regulatory bills need to act. Other


countries have caps on payday loans have many more people taking loans


from very undesirable people. And if you fail to be you will get your


kneecaps knocked out. We need to be careful about the statistics on that


because the evidence from other countries is pretty clear. A lot of


these companies are actually taking quite a risk when they sell those


products, I had a look at the academic evidence on this and the


skipping rope for payments on these type of purchases is about double


the normal retail rate and the payments are uncertain, lots of


people fail to pay on time. When you take into consideration that risk,


there must be some sort of pay off. I'm not pretending these pundits are


right for everybody but this idea that you can crudely cap the costs


is a very naive way of dealing with this problem. Part of the reason


people have trouble paying this bag is because they are selling to


people who cannot afford it. It is worth pausing on this issue of


disability because thanks to your programme, we discovered in the


course of the investigation about people who are in the most


honourable circumstances being sold to. And the FCA needs to look at


practices, whether the countries are following the advice of the


regulator but those guidelines also need tightening up. If they believe


the customer is unable to understand the nature of the agreement the firm


needs to make an assessment but whether it is appropriate to lend.


You say that is not clear enough, that is clear? We have waded through


the detailed guidance and I personally think Cabinet Secretary


to me to be investigated for the way they sell to people with


vulnerabilities but I think it might be necessary for the FCA to tighten


up guidance further. I can read some comments from people watching. This


e-mail, thank you for the peace presented by Ed Miliband, hopefully


it will go some way to ending the expedition of the weaker and more


vulnerable people amongst us. Louise says, I have said from a long time


that rent-to-own companies should have something in place to protect


the most vulnerable, especially those with mental health conditions.


Mark Pfizer discussed in the amount of interest they charge. If the


government help the poorest people, perhaps by providing government


backed loans, it would do more to help the people that it is


undermining. Jason, great to see investigating rent-to-own companies


that are clearly taking advantage of some. David says I used to use it


rent-to-own company and the pressure you into adding further goods and


services with no thought for what you can afford. And Tony just


watched a segment on BrightHouse, he did a really good job, new career?


Speaking of new careers, Nigel Farage has stepped down of his party


in the last 20 minutes or so. Any reaction? It was classic Nigel


Farage. He says he was not a career politician and he stood for


Parliament. I do not like the legacy that Nigel Farage leaves because I


think it is a legacy, as we saw in the referendum campaign, of Stirling


division, I thought the poster about breaking point was disgusting.


Respect the decision that has been taken in this decision -- referendum


but I am not sorry to see him leaving the political scene. He said


the deeper the crisis in the Labour Party becomes, that is where Ukip's


potential lies. That must be really alarming? He exposed the fact that


he was willing to go in with the Tories, we always said that Ukip was


a right-wing party. But it is attracting ex-Labour party voters?


Better see what happens in the General Election. I think it is


important for us as a party and for the people on the remain silent the


argument to be clear that we accept this result and we will negotiate in


good faith for a future outside the European Union. I do not want this


referendum. There were deeper issues even than those around immigration


that have been exposed by it. But it is important that we respect the


result and I think it is important that we are clear about that. I


sympathise with the people who have gone onto the streets and petitions


around the referendum but I say to them, imagine if it was 22-48 to


remain and we had believe people on the streets, with say, we have had


this. You do not agree with Tony Blair who said let us keep the


options open? I have a slightly different view, it is important we


show that we respect the result. Last week you call for Jeremy Corbyn


to stand down along with other Labour MPs. Despite that he is still


there. Are you resigned to him saying?


Lets see what happens. People keep saying that but he is the leader. I


felt we have a system where you are elected by the supporters. Some of


the smoke signals in the last couple of days have suggested that talks of


negotiations have happened... A mediation with unions in the middle?


I'm not sure who the mediators would be. Unenviable job. Is that feasible


to you? Is that realistic? It would be much better if there was a way


Jeremy could transition out of his role, and we could have new


leadership. I think it would be much better than the party engaging in


some kind of civil war. Let's see where we get to. Let me dig


deeper... You mean after the Chilcott enquiry this week? Might


there be a way for him to go after he has criticised Tony Blair, or


called for him to be tried in... I think Jeremy has changed. In some


respects in a positive way on our stances. I understand why he wants


the legacy to be carried forward. The question to the party, the


question I wanted answered last week is who can take us forward in a


united way against a new Tory leader into the general elections. We don't


know when it will be. I think that requires new leadership, as I said


last week. Do you regret changing the rules, meaning people could sign


up for ?3? I don't. I think a political party needs as many people


as possible supporting it. Why don't you respect the mandate of those


people who voted? Because it has always been the case, even when we


introduced new rules, you are elected by a party but you need to


command the confidence of the Parliamentary party. If one fifth of


the party do not support you and trigger a new election there will be


on the ballot. 75% expressed no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. Does he


need 51 MPs to put him on a ballot paper if there is a leadership


contest? I don't know. That is a matter to be sorted out by the


National executive. It is written down in the Labour Party rule


somewhere? As I said, a matter for the national executive. Let me ask


you about Theresa May, the Home Secretary, who wants to be the next


Prime Minister. She said that for her the status of millions of EU


citizens already here in Britain, and British citizens living in EU


countries, it will be part of the Brexit negotiations. What do you


think of that? I don't agree with her. I don't agree with her on


principle because I think people came here with legitimate


expectations they would be allowed to work here. You have British


citizens living abroad. I don't agree with her in principle, but


think about the work ability of this. Are we really saying we will


start deporting people from EU countries, and repatriating people


who were living and working in other EU countries? If it isn't workable


and it isn't right in principle how can it be a negotiating chip, a


bargaining chip, in these negotiations? I think she's wrong. I


think she should reverse her position. It is so unfair to those


people who are working throughout our country and public services and


elsewhere. What message are we sending to them about their role in


our country? What message do you think? A terrible message that they


are somehow not welcome many more. And we see these reprehensible


racist attacks in our country, which I think I'm appalled so many people.


But we need to send a clear message to them that they are welcome. That


we have rules in place. And that we will respect those rules. Why do you


think Britain voted to leave? Deep reasons. It goes much deeper than


racism. Fundamentally a lot of people, including my constituency,


feel failed by politics, failed by our economy, it was not working for


them. A project fear campaign that said, think about how much you have


Toulouse from voting out, they did not feel they had much to lose,


because they felt happy with the way -- because they felt unhappy with


the way the country had been treating them. -- you have to lose.


We understand people feel disenfranchised socially and


economically. And we have to sort out the immigration issue. But there


are deeper problems round housing, jobs, wages, things people see in


their own lives. Thank you for coming on the programme. If you want


to share and his -- if you would like to see his film, you can find


it on the website. And as we've said -


BrighHouse say that Rent-to-own is a very different proposition


to other forms of retail and that they undertake extensive


affordability assessments before lending and seek to support


all those customers who find This morning to map a senior


Conservatives exclusively declare this programme who they are


supporting in the race to become the next leader of the Tory party. Let's


talk now to Liz Truss, the Environment Secretary, and was


supporting Boris Johnson. And Baroness Warsi, he is the former


party chairman. Thank you. Baroness Warsi, who will you be supporting?


Theresa May. Why? Because I think we have a number of years ahead of us


which will be serious and difficult for the country. We need a Prime


Minister who is going to be a substantial figure, somebody with


lots of experience, and a serious politician for serious times. Liz


Truss, who are you supporting? Theresa May. Why? We are in a


difficult situation as a country. The British people have spoken. I am


clear we must listen to people. Brexit must be Brexit. What we now


need is a leader to have the seriousness and the stability to get


the deal done, but also make sure that our country does well both


economically and socially in the future. We will delve a little bit


deeper in a second. This support will Theresa May means that she has


the backing of well over 100 Conservative MPs pushing her way


ahead of other candidates. She insists she won the contest, not a


coronation. I'm also joined by John Redwood who was supporting Andrea


Leadsom and Eddie Bazeley who is supporting Michael Gove. -- Ed


Vaizey. How on earth do you trust Michael Gove? I have worked with him


for many years. He has been at the centre of this government for many


years. He has been one of the people who has moved the Conservative Party


into centre ground. You have heard what he said in his speech when he


announced his leadership. It was a wide-ranging speech covering lots of


issues. This is not just about Brexit. We have to talk about what


future we want our country and a lot of issues. What ever he says, and


whatever you say as his friend for decades, Boris Johnson was also


apparently his friend. He will forever be seen as a pretty


shameless betrayal of friends. He made the right choice. It would have


been a betrayal had he swallowed it all up. Simply put Boris Johnson


forward as the candidate for Prime Minister. Boris Johnson wasn't under


anybody's orders to stand down. He could have stood. He could have had


his contest and put himself forward. What you think of his former


campaign manager saying Michael Gove is a gossip fond of a drink and


would be a security risk? -- what do you think. He has worked incredibly


hard and education. What about this? It does not ring true. You cannot


sit at centre of government and then be criticised like that. There is


much anger in Brussels at the Brexit vote. Surely need is there would be


much more inclined to give a remain, a Conservative Prime Minister, who


voted for remain, a good deal rather than somebody who has led Britain


out of the UK like somebody you are supporting, Andrea Leadsom? We saw


what happened when David Cameron tried to do his best. He got nothing


from them. Should they be hostile to her? She is the most experienced of


the five candidates when it comes to understanding Brussels. She chaired


the important study in the last parliament. All of the details about


where our relationship does not work. She is up to speed on the


detail. Experienced businesswoman and minister. She would be a tough


and experienced negotiator for Britain. I have served in 21


positions. I always found that because they felt I did not want to


deal and much of what they agreed on was disagreeable, it was much more


important to get the UK's Bottom Line in that position than if you


were a collaborator. Did you say she was much more experienced? One


European matters. She has been a middle ranking minister. She is an


important minister in the energy Department. I was clearer what I


said. On the European issues she has studied them all and all of the


other ministers in the competition haven't. But it is much more than


Brexit when you want to be Prime Minister. Mr Blair and Mr Cameron


had no ministerial experience and they became Prime Minister 's.


Andrea Leadsom has been a minister, she understands the white always,


but crucially she understands how Brussels works and what all of the


laws are we have to deal with. -- Prime Minister. She is keen on


getting our borders back, getting our money back, cutting VAT on fuel,


all of the things we promised in the campaign in a way people can trust.


Why is the hesitation about publishing her taxes? They visit,


she intends to do so. If she ends up being in the final two? Yes, and


what is wrong with that? All MDs don't have to publish them. You know


what we earn. -- MPs. She has the backing of the Ukip donor Aaron


Banks. Nigel Farage has resigned. Would she want Nigel Farage in her


Brexit negotiating team? She will form the best possible team for


Britain once she becomes Prime Minister, assuming she wins. I am


not going to advise her on that kind of thing. I think it is a red


herring by the BBC. There lots of really decent people, 70 million


people, who voted for Brexit. Bring us together don't keep to find


divisions. There is a huge amount of talent on the Brexit side of the


argument and we need to use that talent to get a really good deal for


the UK. One of the reasons this country voted to leave the EU is


they felt net migration wasn't under control. Theresa May has presided


over that. Surely that is a problem for her? People were very clear in


the referendum that they wanted to leave. But it is a problem that


reason my presided over net migration levels. I completely agree


that freedom of movement was one of the major reasons people voted to


leave. And you are backing her? That is why Theresa May is committed to


this. This must be negotiated as the key part of our Brexit. Will she


moved quickly to protect us now? Everybody here and now is welcome


but we need immediate protection so it doesn't become a problem. What


she will do is work of the negotiating position and then get on


with leaving the EU. That is what the British people have voted for. I


am feeling outnumbered. Michael Gove has made it clear that EU citizens


are welcome here. People who are living here are welcome to stay,


let's make that clear. What is important is that we are not


electing a leader on position, we are electing somebody who has to go


straight into the negotiations. It is important we have somebody who is


serious, credible, who has had years... Why does she not guarantee


the status of EU citizens living in the UK now? She is for the


foreseeable future whilst we are still members of the EU. But we


cannot guarantee that long-term position until those negotiations


take place. It would be responsible... They need


protecting... You can carry on talking, but we must go. Thank you


all of you.


Former Labour leader Ed Miliband investigates the rent-to-buy market.

Conservatives debate who should be their next leader.

And can Wales overcome the odds to reach the Euro 2016 final?