04/07/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


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04/07/2016

Former Labour leader Ed Miliband investigates the rent-to-buy market. Conservatives debate who should be their next leader. And can Wales reach the Euro 2016 final?


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Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:07.:00:08.

Our top story today is more fallout from the EU referendum

:00:09.:00:15.

- a close friend of Boris Johnson attacks Tory leadership

:00:16.:00:17.

contender Michael Gove, saying he's unfit

:00:18.:00:19.

And that's not all, is it, Norman Smith?

:00:20.:00:25.

Tensions erupting in the Tory ranks as Theresa May's backers say she

:00:26.:00:31.

will not guarantee EU migrants living in the UK the right to stay

:00:32.:00:37.

here while Angela Eagle from the Labour Party says of Jeremy Corbyn

:00:38.:00:38.

does not quit, she will stand. And after 10.30am this morning

:00:39.:00:43.

a Cabinet minister and former Cabinet minister will exclusively

:00:44.:00:45.

tell this programme who they're backing in the race to be

:00:46.:00:47.

the next Prime Minister. Plus we'll hear from religious

:00:48.:00:50.

leaders who're issuing a plea for unity following divisions we've

:00:51.:00:52.

seen after the leave vote. Plus an exclusive report

:00:53.:00:58.

from Ed Miliband, the former leader He's been investigating rent-to-own

:00:59.:01:00.

companies for this programme. They should be a cap on the total

:01:01.:01:14.

costs that rent-to-own companies can charge, be done with payday lenders

:01:15.:01:16.

and it is worth it. That exclusive report

:01:17.:01:20.

coming up shortly - And, as always, we're keen

:01:21.:01:22.

to hear your experiences And as Wales fans tried to get

:01:23.:01:34.

tickets to the semifinal after that magnificent performance against

:01:35.:01:36.

Belgium and the rest of us try to find out if we have some well

:01:37.:01:39.

shimmers, we will explore the psychology of the underdog side who

:01:40.:01:44.

have done so brilliant. If you work hard enough and are not afraid to

:01:45.:01:46.

dream and not afraid to fail... Welcome to the programme,

:01:47.:01:56.

we're live until 11am. Throughout the programme we'll bring

:01:57.:01:59.

you the latest breaking news We're expecting UKIP leader

:02:00.:02:02.

Nigel Farage to give a speech setting out UKIP's role

:02:03.:02:08.

in a post-Brexit Britain after 10am this morning -

:02:09.:02:12.

we'll bring you some of it live. As always, we're really keen

:02:13.:02:15.

for you to get in touch on all the stories we're talking

:02:16.:02:19.

about this morning. Particularly if you want

:02:20.:02:24.

to share your own experience of rent-to-own companies

:02:25.:02:26.

- use #VictoriaLive. And if you text, you will be charged

:02:27.:02:29.

at the standard network rate. George Osborne has pledged to slash

:02:30.:02:32.

the amount of tax businesses pay in order to encourage

:02:33.:02:38.

investment in the wake In a newspaper interview,

:02:39.:02:40.

the Chancellor said cutting corporation tax was one of his five

:02:41.:02:47.

priorities to show the UK Britain may have voted to leave

:02:48.:02:50.

the EU, but the country is very much That is the message

:02:51.:02:56.

the Chancellor wants to send to companies

:02:57.:03:00.

that might now be having doubts

:03:01.:03:02.

about investing in the UK George Osborne has told

:03:03.:03:05.

the Financial Times he plans That is the rate at which companies

:03:06.:03:09.

pay tax on their profits. It would drop from the current

:03:10.:03:15.

20% to below 15%. That would make it the lowest

:03:16.:03:18.

corporation tax rate Compare that, for example,

:03:19.:03:22.

with 39% in the USA, It would even take it close

:03:23.:03:30.

to the competitive 12.5% That is very different

:03:31.:03:36.

from what Mr Osborne was suggesting There'll be a hole

:03:37.:03:40.

in public finances. You've got Chancellors from two

:03:41.:03:46.

different political parties saying that taxes will have to go up,

:03:47.:03:48.

spending will have to be cut. That is the reality

:03:49.:03:51.

of quitting the EU. That talk of imposing ?30 billion

:03:52.:03:54.

in tax rises and spending cuts has now gone, replaced by an attempt

:03:55.:03:58.

to woo business and keep Boris Johnson has accused

:03:59.:04:00.

the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be

:04:01.:04:12.

made to work in the UK's interests. In a column in The Daily Telegraph,

:04:13.:04:16.

the former Leave campaigner says "hysteria" is sweeping parts

:04:17.:04:20.

of the population who wanted He argues that they need

:04:21.:04:22.

more reassurance. Our political Guru Norman Smith

:04:23.:04:35.

is in Westminster. The Tory infighting continues. That

:04:36.:04:44.

is a mild way of putting it! I have never seen anything like this, this

:04:45.:04:48.

is fear and loathing on stilts. This morning we get a Boris Johnson

:04:49.:04:55.

backlash, he wading into David Cameron for, in his view, not doing

:04:56.:05:00.

enough to reassure people over Brexit saying they are encountering

:05:01.:05:02.

the sort of atmosphere we saw in the aftermath of the death of Lady Diana

:05:03.:05:08.

even more, his campaign manager, the person who was meant to be running

:05:09.:05:14.

his leadership campaign, Ben Wallace, has launched an

:05:15.:05:16.

extraordinary attack on Michael Gove, saying, in effect, Michael

:05:17.:05:21.

Gove is a gossip, he's fond of a drink and he cannot be trusted. You

:05:22.:05:25.

would not want to entrust him with the secrets of the nation. Utterly

:05:26.:05:31.

extraordinary. At the same time as this blood over the stage, we have

:05:32.:05:35.

serious divisions merging between the rival candidates, particularly

:05:36.:05:38.

over that fraught issue of immigration. What has emerged is a

:05:39.:05:44.

Theresa May, the frontrunner, is in the market to do some sort of deal

:05:45.:05:50.

over freedom of movement which those who favoured Brexit, they thought we

:05:51.:05:55.

had to stop this and Theresa May thinks we have to do a deal on this

:05:56.:06:00.

so that companies can still get access to the single market and the

:06:01.:06:05.

biggest bust up will emerge after one of her supporters, Philip

:06:06.:06:09.

Hammond, suggested that it would be absurd to guarantee that EU migrants

:06:10.:06:14.

currently living and working in the UK should definitely be allowed to

:06:15.:06:21.

stay. He is putting up big question over whether EU migrants working

:06:22.:06:26.

here, doctors, nurses, care workers, whether they will automatically have

:06:27.:06:29.

the right to stay. That will provoke huge controversy. Already Michael

:06:30.:06:35.

Gove's team say we will guarantee that and Yvette Cooper has written

:06:36.:06:39.

to the Prime Minister demanding he issues a statement on this

:06:40.:06:42.

guaranteeing the rights of EU migrants, saying this is a hugely

:06:43.:06:48.

inflammatory intervention. We will talk to the former Labour leader Ed

:06:49.:06:51.

Miliband about that because he has a point of view on whether EU citizens

:06:52.:06:56.

should be guaranteed that right. I also want to ask about the current

:06:57.:07:00.

Labour leader. The current Chancellor, remember him? The big

:07:01.:07:05.

announcement from George Osborne, it is a tiny reminder that there is

:07:06.:07:08.

some governing still going on despite the Conservative infighting?

:07:09.:07:14.

That is interesting because you sense the Chancellor house to rip up

:07:15.:07:19.

his game plan post election. You will remember that after the Tory

:07:20.:07:22.

election victory, we were told that the aim was to get the books

:07:23.:07:26.

balanced by the end of the Parliament, that has been torn up

:07:27.:07:30.

and put in the den and be not find that corporation tax will have to be

:07:31.:07:39.

racks dine to 15%. That is a massive cut the Chancellor feels that is

:07:40.:07:42.

necessary to try to give businesses some sort of confidence and sense

:07:43.:07:46.

that Britain is still a place where they should invest and do business.

:07:47.:07:51.

Amid mounting concerns that many investors are thinking they will not

:07:52.:07:54.

do anything because we have no idea what is going to happen in Britain

:07:55.:07:58.

in terms of whether it will get access to the single market. It

:07:59.:08:02.

underlines the really deep unease over what is going to happen to the

:08:03.:08:07.

economy. And in terms of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn is still leader

:08:08.:08:11.

and his former shadow business Minister, Angela Eagle, says she

:08:12.:08:15.

will still stand against him but not yet? We are in this weird Mexican

:08:16.:08:22.

stand-off, they are like gunslingers ready to go. There is the suggestion

:08:23.:08:27.

this morning that the unions could intervene as try to broker some sort

:08:28.:08:30.

of peace deal. They would go off to the bar and live happily ever after.

:08:31.:08:36.

I cannot see that happening because Angela Eagle this morning was pretty

:08:37.:08:40.

clear that if Jeremy Corbyn does not walk away, she will stand. Listen...

:08:41.:08:48.

He is not properly engaged with even the Deputy Leader of the party, who

:08:49.:08:53.

was elected with a mandate. It is time that he did so. How many

:08:54.:09:00.

people? MPs and party members, are asking me to resolve this. And I

:09:01.:09:03.

will have something is not done soon. Are you still prepared to run

:09:04.:09:11.

against him? I have the support to run and resolve this and I will do

:09:12.:09:14.

so if Jeremy does not take action soon. That is all I have to say.

:09:15.:09:22.

Talking to the critics of Mr Corbyn, what are you doing? Willie Rennie

:09:23.:09:28.

stand? They seem to want to wait until the Chilcott report is

:09:29.:09:30.

published on Wednesday because that is a huge moment but after that, the

:09:31.:09:38.

game is on. Showdown still looming in the ranks of the Labour Party.

:09:39.:09:42.

Thank you very much. And we will talk to Ed Miliband about the

:09:43.:09:48.

fallout from the EU vote and the current state of the Labour Party

:09:49.:09:52.

and about rent-to-own companies. His exclusive film is coming up.

:09:53.:09:57.

A legal challenge has been brought to ensure the government follows

:09:58.:10:00.

lawful procedure when leaving the European Union.

:10:01.:10:02.

A group of academics and business people is trying to force

:10:03.:10:04.

the government to pass an Act of Parliament before it

:10:05.:10:07.

They want assurances that Britain will not use executive powers

:10:08.:10:13.

to start the process of leaving the EU.

:10:14.:10:17.

Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:10:18.:10:24.

The Iraqi government has declared three days of national

:10:25.:10:28.

mourning after the weekend's deadly bomb attack.

:10:29.:10:32.

Officials say 106 65 people were killed and more than 200 injured

:10:33.:10:37.

after a lorry packed with excuses was blown up in a busy shopping

:10:38.:10:39.

area. The so-called Islamic State says it

:10:40.:10:40.

carried out the attack. Our Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen

:10:41.:10:43.

reports from Baghdad. The bombs and the fires

:10:44.:10:45.

consumed so many lives. It is supposed to be

:10:46.:10:49.

a sacred and festive season, the last few days of

:10:50.:10:56.

the holy month of Ramadan. This was the so-called

:10:57.:10:58.

Islamic State's latest gift He says that Iraqis are like sheep

:10:59.:11:00.

among wolves, everyone is coming We don't, we don't have any

:11:01.:11:06.

security, any real security in Iraq. Yes, we have a lot of police,

:11:07.:11:11.

we have a lot of army, Islamic State, Sunni extremists,

:11:12.:11:18.

said they were targeting Shia A main reason why IS attacked

:11:19.:11:26.

was the defeat they have just It means they have lost

:11:27.:11:32.

a stronghold less than an hour's All the destruction and killing add

:11:33.:11:39.

up to a clear message from the jihadists of

:11:40.:11:45.

so-called Islamic State. That they may be defeated

:11:46.:11:46.

on the battlefield, but they are still able to hit back

:11:47.:11:48.

where it hurts most, by killing civilians in the heart

:11:49.:11:52.

of this capital city, The Former Labour Leader Ed Miliband

:11:53.:11:56.

has carried out an investigation for this programme into rent-to-own

:11:57.:12:08.

companies, which allow shoppers to pay for items like TVs,

:12:09.:12:12.

fridges and washing machines In many cases, Mr Miliband found

:12:13.:12:14.

consumers can end up paying up to three times more for the product

:12:15.:12:20.

than the original price. He also found some companies

:12:21.:12:23.

are selling these goods to vulnerable people with learning

:12:24.:12:27.

difficulties who may not understand Brighthouse, the biggest company,

:12:28.:12:38.

says rent-to-own is a different proposition to other forms of retail

:12:39.:12:41.

and they undertake extensive affordability assessments before

:12:42.:12:46.

lending. We will have more on that investigation throughout the

:12:47.:12:46.

programme. The father of a British boy killed

:12:47.:12:51.

by an alligator at Disney World in Florida last month,

:12:52.:12:54.

has said that two alligators Matt Graves, whose son, Lane,

:12:55.:12:56.

was seized by an alligator while he was paddling in shallow

:12:57.:13:00.

water, said he was attacked by the second animal as he tried

:13:01.:13:02.

to save his son. Five alligators were killed

:13:03.:13:05.

on the day after the attack Most unpaid carers are still not

:13:06.:13:07.

receiving the support they are entitled to,

:13:08.:13:11.

a year after new rules came into force to improve

:13:12.:13:13.

their health and wellbeing. That's according to research

:13:14.:13:16.

from The Carers Trust. Since last April, councils have

:13:17.:13:19.

been required to provide assessments and support

:13:20.:13:22.

to protect carers' wellbeing. But a review by the former

:13:23.:13:26.

Care Minister Paul Burstow found 65% He says government, councils

:13:27.:13:29.

and the NHS must do more I'm very frustrated that after the

:13:30.:13:44.

first 12 months, it would appear that councils are not following the

:13:45.:13:48.

letter of the law and they're offering a one-off payment in many

:13:49.:13:52.

cases which is fobbing off carers. And they are certainly not doing

:13:53.:13:55.

enough to raise the awareness of carers that this is something they

:13:56.:13:59.

have as a right and they should be taking advantage of it because in

:14:00.:14:02.

the end, carers are saving councils are forging. -- a fortune.

:14:03.:14:09.

A Nasa spacecraft is about to arrive at the largest planet

:14:10.:14:11.

in the solar system - Jupiter.

:14:12.:14:13.

The probe was launched in 2011 and has travelled

:14:14.:14:15.

Entering into orbit will be fraught with dangers,

:14:16.:14:18.

but if the spacecraft succeeds, it will give us our best

:14:19.:14:20.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

:14:21.:14:28.

The normally bring new sport right now but there has been a mix-up with

:14:29.:14:35.

the rudder. We are looking for a sports presenter! We will talk about

:14:36.:14:42.

Wales with some real Welsh people and people who are hoping to find

:14:43.:14:45.

some Welsh somewhere in their heritage! First...

:14:46.:14:50.

First this morning, an exclusive report by the former

:14:51.:14:55.

Labour leader Ed Miliband, who investigates the rent-to-own

:14:56.:14:57.

Rent-to-own companies allow shoppers to pay for items like TVs,

:14:58.:15:01.

games consoles, fridges and washing machines in weekly instalments,

:15:02.:15:04.

But consumers can end up paying up to three times more for the product

:15:05.:15:08.

and we've discovered that some companies are selling these goods

:15:09.:15:11.

to vulnerable people with mental health problems and learning

:15:12.:15:15.

difficulties leading to concerns that they may not understand

:15:16.:15:18.

The Citizens Advice Bureau tells us it receives thousands of complaints

:15:19.:15:26.

a month about the sector and the regulator must do more

:15:27.:15:29.

In this exclusive report, Ed Miliband tells us he wants

:15:30.:15:33.

rent-to-own companies to be regulated like payday loan firms,

:15:34.:15:36.

which since 2015 have had to cap the interest,

:15:37.:15:38.

The former Labour leader has campaigned against rent-to-own

:15:39.:15:46.

firms, and he's tried to persuade people to use credit unions instead.

:15:47.:15:49.

against and he's tried to persuade people to use

:15:50.:15:51.

The biggest company in the rent-to-own sector

:15:52.:15:55.

We asked them to take part in our report -

:15:56.:15:59.

With so much choice on the High Street, we are told

:16:00.:16:05.

But around five million people in the UK can't get credit.

:16:06.:16:13.

Lots of people can't borrow money to buy household goods like a TV

:16:14.:16:19.

or cooker and I'm seeing more and more people turning

:16:20.:16:21.

to rent-to-own shops like Perfect Home or BrightHouse,

:16:22.:16:25.

People can get a TV on the spot and pay for it by weekly

:16:26.:16:32.

instalments, but it can be incredibly expensive.

:16:33.:16:34.

My constituents have told me they can end up paying

:16:35.:16:36.

If they miss a payment or are late, the costs spiral, or worse

:16:37.:16:42.

they lose their TV along with their money.

:16:43.:16:51.

As leader of the Labour Party and now as a backbench MP,

:16:52.:16:57.

I've talked about the need for firms to do right by their

:16:58.:17:00.

BrightHouse have 300 stores across the country, often

:17:01.:17:03.

One of them is in Doncaster, in my constituency,

:17:04.:17:08.

and I want to find out what kind of service

:17:09.:17:12.

I'm concerned that BrightHouse are taking advantage of people

:17:13.:17:18.

on benefits and working on low incomes.

:17:19.:17:22.

And in the course of our investigation I have been

:17:23.:17:25.

that BrightHouse are selling to people with mental health

:17:26.:17:28.

He suffers with mental health problems, severe mental

:17:29.:17:31.

Craig is 38, and has autism and cerebral palsy.

:17:32.:17:38.

His mum Betty says her son didn't understand the BrightHouse contract.

:17:39.:17:41.

He'll pay but then he has got nothing for himself for food,

:17:42.:17:48.

Just tell us a bit about what experience

:17:49.:17:59.

Craig apparently had been in and bought this

:18:00.:18:03.

I kept seeing it in the house and I didn't really twig.

:18:04.:18:14.

Then I said how much are you paying for that?

:18:15.:18:17.

How many times have I said don't touch them with a barge pole?

:18:18.:18:31.

Do you think it would have been obvious to the BrightHouse staff

:18:32.:18:34.

that Craig had learning difficulties?

:18:35.:18:35.

And what was the reaction of BrightHouse when you

:18:36.:18:40.

complained in the shop and when you wrote to them?

:18:41.:18:46.

Well, the man in the shop said we go through this thing to make sure

:18:47.:18:50.

Although Betty believes BrightHouse should have realised her son

:18:51.:19:01.

was vulnerable, she does say they stopped taking payments

:19:02.:19:03.

from Craig's account as soon as she told them about his situation

:19:04.:19:06.

BrightHouse dispute Betty's claims that it would have been obvious that

:19:07.:19:11.

Craig had learning difficulties as a member of staff

:19:12.:19:14.

judged Craig to be capable of making his own decisions and had

:19:15.:19:17.

no reason to believe he wasn't aware of what he was doing.

:19:18.:19:22.

The Financial Conduct Authority, the body that regulates

:19:23.:19:27.

If companies have reason to believe that the customer has

:19:28.:19:32.

a learning disability, they must take reasonable steps

:19:33.:19:34.

to assist the customer to make an informed decision.

:19:35.:19:37.

If they believe the customer isn't able to understand the nature

:19:38.:19:42.

of the agreement then the firm is to make an assessment

:19:43.:19:45.

of whether it is appropriate to lend.

:19:46.:19:47.

But I don't think that is clear enough and the guidelines

:19:48.:19:50.

Paul, not his real name, is another vulnerable adult.

:19:51.:19:53.

He has learning difficulties and mental health problems.

:19:54.:20:01.

You've told me that you have some mental health issues and issues

:20:02.:20:04.

like epilepsy and you describe yourself as quite vulnerable.

:20:05.:20:06.

Do you want to tell me what you are owing

:20:07.:20:42.

to them and what goods you've got with them?

:20:43.:20:44.

How have you ended up with that number of items, do you think?

:20:45.:21:09.

I think I must have started paying off one.

:21:10.:21:12.

When you go into the BrightHouse store, what have you said to them

:21:13.:21:18.

about your own finances and what have they said to you?

:21:19.:21:21.

This thing is a nice thing and I say, well,

:21:22.:21:24.

it is but I have got other things to pay.

:21:25.:21:26.

You can have what you want out of the stores.

:21:27.:21:29.

Does the whole situation with BrightHouse cause you anxiety?

:21:30.:21:31.

BrightHouse denies exploiting consumers in vulnerable

:21:32.:21:39.

circumstances or selling items to people who cannot afford them

:21:40.:21:42.

and says they have sufficient policies and procedures

:21:43.:21:45.

in place to prevent these practices from happening.

:21:46.:21:48.

I think it was a ?300 laptop. We have done.

:21:49.:22:04.

When you bought it, was that clear to you that

:22:05.:22:16.

It's all in the small print and stuff.

:22:17.:22:20.

What kinds of things do you buy from them?

:22:21.:22:25.

How long have you been a customer for?

:22:26.:22:37.

If you can't pay, they will help you to sort out your difficulties.

:22:38.:22:53.

The weekly payments at BrightHouse might seem cheap.

:22:54.:22:57.

But add in compulsory 5-star service, including delivery

:22:58.:23:10.

and installation at ?55, and Service Plus, repair

:23:11.:23:12.

or replacement of your item, which costs ?136, on top of that

:23:13.:23:15.

interest rates of 69.9% a year and payments spread over three

:23:16.:23:21.

years, you end up paying a grand total of ?1,092.

:23:22.:23:29.

This is the first item I got off BrightHouse.

:23:30.:23:33.

It has got some screws under here that have come loose.

:23:34.:23:35.

On here there should be another screw.

:23:36.:23:40.

BrightHouse say they carry out affordability checks to make

:23:41.:23:42.

sure people can keep up with the weekly repayments.

:23:43.:23:45.

Angela Jackson says BrightHouse should carry out much more

:23:46.:23:47.

She has a fridge freezer and a TV stand and has

:23:48.:23:52.

And how much are you paying for this in total?

:23:53.:23:58.

Basically if the kid chips it or anything like that.

:23:59.:24:08.

So nobody went through your finances and said is it affordable?

:24:09.:24:11.

They just said basically that I could.

:24:12.:24:18.

They have to know what money I had got.

:24:19.:24:20.

They didn't go through what I have to pay out, the bill

:24:21.:24:23.

situation and the children or anything like that.

:24:24.:24:28.

They just said, "Right, you can have such and such."

:24:29.:24:31.

I can have anything I want out of the shop.

:24:32.:24:33.

"Angela, if you introduce somebody, you could get this.

:24:34.:24:38.

We will take money off your bill, ?50."

:24:39.:24:40.

Get my bill down a little bit because it's high,

:24:41.:24:43.

Because it's dear and people who haven't got the money

:24:44.:24:52.

to just go and do it, they think they can

:24:53.:24:54.

Just a little bit more expensive and it's there.

:24:55.:24:59.

Well, she has ended up skinting herself.

:25:00.:25:09.

She ended up without gas and electric.

:25:10.:25:11.

Walk on by, that is what I would say.

:25:12.:25:14.

When I walk in, I am literally a minute.

:25:15.:25:22.

I just give them my money, my name and address and I go before

:25:23.:25:29.

anyone comes and badgers me to see if I want anything.

:25:30.:25:34.

I'm interested in what it looks like on the other side

:25:35.:25:37.

Zoe left her sales job at BrightHouse after five years

:25:38.:25:40.

From a personal point of view, you could obviously see that

:25:41.:25:46.

somebody couldn't afford the items that they wanted.

:25:47.:25:51.

But if the computer allowed them to add that on to their account,

:25:52.:25:55.

Do you think it was clear to customers that in relation

:25:56.:25:59.

to the service agreement, they knew what they were buying?

:26:00.:26:07.

I think because of the information that's given to a new customer

:26:08.:26:10.

joining BrightHouse, the amount that was read out to them,

:26:11.:26:12.

I think it was too much and they didn't quite understand

:26:13.:26:15.

So did you have experience of selling to people

:26:16.:26:24.

who had been sold goods and then fell behind and couldn't

:26:25.:26:26.

People will see something for a small amount each week

:26:27.:26:32.

and that is the figure they will look at.

:26:33.:26:36.

In reality the amount they are paying back and the length

:26:37.:26:39.

of time it would take to pay it back was different.

:26:40.:26:42.

People would say maybe that is only ?5 per week, I can afford that.

:26:43.:26:45.

Before they know it they are paying ?100 per week, they are a single

:26:46.:26:53.

parent with children and it is unaffordable.

:26:54.:26:56.

Morally I felt as though it was wrong.

:26:57.:27:00.

I had a few people who were behind on things and got themselves

:27:01.:27:03.

And did you have experience of people having goods that were faulty

:27:04.:27:11.

I have had experience of goods going away for repair

:27:12.:27:19.

and coming back not repaired with the same faults

:27:20.:27:21.

still or an extra fault or broken or damaged or even lost.

:27:22.:27:25.

Some customers would have their items sent away

:27:26.:27:26.

for repair and they would get lost and they would have

:27:27.:27:29.

As part of their 5-star service, BrightHouse says it offers unlimited

:27:30.:27:34.

repairs, loan products when required and replacements.

:27:35.:27:42.

I wanted to speak to BrightHouse, but they declined to be interviewed.

:27:43.:27:45.

So did the Consumer Credit Trade Association and the Finance

:27:46.:27:48.

and Leasing Association, the industry bodies

:27:49.:27:50.

But there are those that make the case that there is a gap

:27:51.:27:56.

in the market and Perfect Home, BrightHouse and others provide

:27:57.:27:59.

The fundamental question is whether or not we think these

:28:00.:28:02.

people should be able to opt into a contract where they pay more

:28:03.:28:06.

overall, but they have the appliances tomorrow,

:28:07.:28:08.

or whether or not they shouldn't have these

:28:09.:28:09.

It's an injustice to tell people that because they are poor

:28:10.:28:13.

they can't have things that in 2016 we would consider necessities.

:28:14.:28:17.

Some of these companies are making very big profits at the expense

:28:18.:28:20.

They're making huge profits because they are taking

:28:21.:28:26.

We see this with credit card companies as well.

:28:27.:28:29.

They're making marginal profits because they are loaning out

:28:30.:28:32.

to people with average credit scores.

:28:33.:28:33.

These rent-to-own companies are often taking on people

:28:34.:28:35.

They don't always know if they are going to get their payments.

:28:36.:28:39.

They are taking on a lot of risk there.

:28:40.:28:42.

They're getting these profits because they have to ensure down

:28:43.:28:44.

the line that they are going to get some kind of return.

:28:45.:28:47.

But in the meantime people who wouldn't have these goods

:28:48.:28:49.

are getting them to their homes next day delivery.

:28:50.:28:54.

The regulator, the Financial Conduct Authority, says companies must

:28:55.:28:59.

provide clear information to their customers and ensure fairness.

:29:00.:29:09.

I don't believe that's happening for many people

:29:10.:29:11.

And Citizens Advice agree that there are real problems

:29:12.:29:14.

They would like the regulator, the FCA, to do more to make sure

:29:15.:29:18.

We're not suggesting that the whole market should be taken off the face

:29:19.:29:23.

We do see people in vulnerable situations pushed into further

:29:24.:29:32.

difficulties, financial difficulty, and then of course emotional stress

:29:33.:29:38.

and worry due to the nature of the debt that they have taken on.

:29:39.:29:41.

People who are disabled or with health conditions,

:29:42.:29:46.

and of course people with mental health conditions as well.

:29:47.:29:48.

Too often we think that the hire purchase firms offer them very

:29:49.:29:53.

little in terms of protection, don't do decent enough

:29:54.:29:55.

affordability checks, and therefore they get themselves

:29:56.:29:57.

From what I have seen, too often rent-to-own companies

:29:58.:30:05.

are taking advantage of people who have nowhere else to go.

:30:06.:30:07.

The regulator needs to stop the most vulnerable in our society

:30:08.:30:10.

Rent-to-own companies should stop selling goods to people who just

:30:11.:30:16.

And I think there should be a cap on the total cost that rent-to-own

:30:17.:30:21.

We have done it with the payday lenders like Wonga

:30:22.:30:27.

As you'd expect, we asked BrightHouse for an interview

:30:28.:30:33.

today; they declined - and instead gave us this

:30:34.:30:35.

statement which says, "We note that this feature

:30:36.:30:38.

is presented by an avowed critic, who consistently

:30:39.:30:40.

BrightHouse serves those lower-income families who are

:30:41.:30:45.

Rent-to-own is a very different proposition

:30:46.:31:10.

We'll talk to the former Labour leader in the next hour.

:31:11.:31:17.

Thank you for getting in touch. David on Facebook says, we need

:31:18.:31:25.

government to stay out of these areas, the free market will

:31:26.:31:27.

determine the price and not politicians. Philip says, this is an

:31:28.:31:32.

issue that needs to be looked at, well done. Alan on Facebook Daesh

:31:33.:31:38.

why did Mr Miliband not do this when he had the chance to do so? Simon

:31:39.:31:43.

says, Rent to Own is called free trade, improve education if people

:31:44.:31:47.

cannot cope. Stephen says this is the first time I have looked at Ed

:31:48.:31:52.

Miliband and thought, good man! As diverse as the treatment of

:31:53.:31:56.

vulnerable people in the UK is a national disgrace and shames

:31:57.:31:59.

Britain. I am fed up with the week being targeted. Douglas says on

:32:00.:32:04.

e-mail, why are you not mentioning credit unions? Largely run by

:32:05.:32:10.

volunteers, who provide a worthwhile service by offering affordable loans

:32:11.:32:12.

as well as encouraging saving? And one other viewers says, Ed Miliband

:32:13.:32:18.

has a new calling- you will next be presenting Watchdog! Please continue

:32:19.:32:22.

to get in touch. You can contact us

:32:23.:32:24.

in the normal ways. Still to come: Boris Johnson today

:32:25.:32:29.

calls it "hysteria" - the state of the country amongst

:32:30.:32:33.

some of the population With divisions across the country,

:32:34.:32:35.

in families, in workplaces. We talk to three faith leaders

:32:36.:32:40.

who are going to try and deliver some soothing words to bring

:32:41.:32:43.

the country together again. And are you one of those desperately

:32:44.:32:45.

trying to find a bit of Welsh in you ahead of Wales' semi-final

:32:46.:32:49.

against Portugal in the Euros? We'll talk about how Wales overcame

:32:50.:32:51.

Belgium on Friday night and talk Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

:32:52.:32:58.

with a summary of today's news. George Osborne has pledged to slash

:32:59.:33:04.

the amount of tax businesses pay in order to encourage investment

:33:05.:33:07.

in the wake of the EU In a newspaper interview,

:33:08.:33:10.

the Chancellor said cutting corporation tax was one of his five

:33:11.:33:14.

priorities to show the UK He also pledged to maintain

:33:15.:33:17.

the so-called Northern Powerhouse investment project despite

:33:18.:33:21.

the Brexit vote. Boris Johnson has accused

:33:22.:33:28.

the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be

:33:29.:33:30.

made to work in the UK's interests. In a column in The Daily Telegraph,

:33:31.:33:34.

the former Leave campaigner says "hysteria" is sweeping parts

:33:35.:33:38.

of the population who wanted He argues that they need more

:33:39.:33:40.

reassurance. The former Shadow Business

:33:41.:33:46.

Secretary, Angela Eagle, has said she'll step in to resolve

:33:47.:33:47.

the leadership crisis in the Labour Party if Jeremy Corbyn

:33:48.:33:53.

doesn't step down soon. But, speaking to reporters

:33:54.:33:56.

outside her house this morning, she accused Mr Corbyn of not

:33:57.:34:00.

being "properly engaged" with the party's deputy

:34:01.:34:02.

leader, Tom Watson. He is not properly engaged with even

:34:03.:34:10.

the Deputy Leader of the party, How many people, MPs and party

:34:11.:34:13.

members, are asking me And I will if something

:34:14.:34:22.

is not done soon. Are you still prepared

:34:23.:34:27.

to run against him? I have the support to run

:34:28.:34:33.

and resolve this and I will do so if Jeremy does not

:34:34.:34:36.

take action soon. The Iraqi government has declared

:34:37.:34:49.

three days of mourning after a bomb in Baghdad killed at least 106 to

:34:50.:34:54.

five people and wounded about 130. A lorry packed with excuses was

:34:55.:34:57.

detonated in the capital of families were shopping for the holiday

:34:58.:35:01.

marking the end of Ramadan. So-called Islamic State says it

:35:02.:35:06.

carried out the attack. That is the latest news, back at ten o'clock.

:35:07.:35:11.

And we shall also bring you the support them. This e-mail is to do

:35:12.:35:17.

with BrightHouse, the firm at Ed Miliband was investigating, I have

:35:18.:35:20.

been using BrightHouse through number of years and have always set

:35:21.:35:24.

my own budgets and they have always been helpful and make sure you can

:35:25.:35:28.

afford them. I personally find them good for me, my contracts are nearly

:35:29.:35:35.

completed. My contracts make sense and my payments are nearly competed.

:35:36.:35:42.

Peacekeepers coming in. -- please keep those.

:35:43.:35:45.

After the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox a week before the referendum,

:35:46.:35:48.

MPs from all sides called for a new type of politics -

:35:49.:35:51.

one with less anger and heat, one which tolerates a little more

:35:52.:35:54.

These are some of the comments we've seen from politicians on social

:35:55.:35:59.

Last week Conservative MP Nadine Dorries struggled to fight

:36:00.:36:11.

back her tears as Boris Johnson announced he was backing out

:36:12.:36:13.

of the Tory leadership race after Michael Gove decided

:36:14.:36:16.

to withdraw support from Mr Johnson and put himself forward.

:36:17.:36:21.

She is obviously very angry with Michael Gove. She says...

:36:22.:36:37.

Michael Gove is a Game of Thrones fan.

:36:38.:36:40.

In this stinging attack on Twitter Ben Wallace MP,

:36:41.:36:43.

Boris Johnson's former campaign manager, compared

:36:44.:36:46.

the Justice Secretary to the character Theon Greyjoy,

:36:47.:36:48.

who betrayed his adopted family for personal gain and

:36:49.:36:50.

Threatening to castrate Michael Gove. And that is obviously what

:36:51.:37:15.

people wanted to take from that. -- what he wanted people.

:37:16.:37:18.

Ben Wallace has also written in the Telegraph this morning saying

:37:19.:37:20.

Mr Gove is unfit to be PM - he'd be a security risk

:37:21.:37:24.

because he has an "emotional need to gossip".

:37:25.:37:25.

The Conservative MP for Rossendale and Darwen Jake Berry also took

:37:26.:37:28.

to Twitter declaring that there is a deep pit in hell

:37:29.:37:31.

MPs of other parties have also vented their frustrations

:37:32.:37:35.

The Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron referred to the privileged

:37:36.:37:42.

Oxford Bullingdon Club, infamous for its wealthy members

:37:43.:37:46.

and trashing of restaurants, when he posted this about Boris

:37:47.:37:48.

And the Labour MP for Rhondda, Chris Bryant, said Michael Gove's

:37:49.:38:00.

pitch was the extraordinary bundle of Uriah-Heep-style self conceit

:38:01.:38:02.

And another Labour MP, David Lammy, had his own observations

:38:03.:38:12.

on the turmoil in the Tory Party: Two frivolous Etonians

:38:13.:38:15.

tear the country apart in their own personality feud

:38:16.:38:17.

Then the winner walks away within a week.

:38:18.:38:24.

And it's not just MPs who're being vicious.

:38:25.:38:29.

The referendum result has obviously led to some very happy Leave voters

:38:30.:38:32.

It's also seen the UK divided on lines of geography,

:38:33.:38:36.

Families rowing and an increase in racist and xenophobic abuse.

:38:37.:38:41.

Over the last few days, you may have heard a lot

:38:42.:38:43.

about a divided Britain, a disunited kingdom, following the

:38:44.:38:47.

results of the referendum, which showed clear divisions over the

:38:48.:38:49.

London versus the rest of England, Scotland versus England and

:38:50.:38:53.

Establishment versus working classes.

:38:54.:38:56.

A lot of people kicked against the establishment in this

:38:57.:38:58.

They feel that we only look after ourselves and now look what we

:38:59.:39:03.

We are not looking after the interests of the nation, we are

:39:04.:39:07.

just looking after ourselves and what our next job will be.

:39:08.:39:10.

That one question of whether to leave or remain in the EU

:39:11.:39:14.

has also caused deep divisions within many families.

:39:15.:39:17.

We are being respectful of each other's opinions

:39:18.:39:19.

but I strongly feel the best thing for us

:39:20.:39:21.

and the younger generation is

:39:22.:39:23.

Do you respect your mum's vote to leave first of all?

:39:24.:39:26.

Michael Gove, the Justice Secretary, is

:39:27.:39:31.

throwing his hat into the ring to be Tory leader.

:39:32.:39:34.

He had been expected to

:39:35.:39:35.

back Boris Johnson, the former Mayor of London.

:39:36.:39:39.

Now he says his fellow Leave campaigner isn't up to the job.

:39:40.:39:42.

This is Michael Gove plunging a dagger into the back, front, side,

:39:43.:39:45.

He is at war with his own MPs and it is a war he means to win.

:39:46.:39:56.

More Shadow Cabinet ministers walked out than stayed

:39:57.:40:00.

Some say this war could break Labour for good.

:40:01.:40:05.

I feel I have served in the best way I can and

:40:06.:40:07.

An 11-year-old boy who found a message of hate.

:40:08.:40:16.

This is one of the cards that Mattias found

:40:17.:40:18.

on his way to school on

:40:19.:40:19.

Friday, just hours after the referendum result was declared.

:40:20.:40:21.

Graffiti on the Polish cultural centre in London is another example

:40:22.:40:24.

of the hate many Poles predicted the referendum would bring.

:40:25.:40:29.

Our guest says she has been abused three times

:40:30.:40:31.

There were guys yelling abuse at me to get out of

:40:32.:40:35.

the country from the other side of the platform.

:40:36.:40:39.

It was a packed platform and nobody said anything.

:40:40.:40:42.

The senior politicians in the Leave campaign now,

:40:43.:40:44.

what are they going to do to rein this in?

:40:45.:40:46.

So that's the division and this morning religious leaders

:40:47.:40:52.

are joining together on this programme to call for unity

:40:53.:40:55.

and tolerance in the wake of the EU referendum result.

:40:56.:40:58.

We can speak now to Rabbi Danny Rich, the Chief Executive

:40:59.:41:03.

of Liberal Judaism, Imam Qari Muhammad Asim,

:41:04.:41:05.

who joins us from Leeds, and Dr Graham Tomlin,

:41:06.:41:07.

who's the Bishop of Kensington in London.

:41:08.:41:14.

I want to ask all of you individually, how do you assess the

:41:15.:41:20.

level of division in the UK right now? There certainly is division, I

:41:21.:41:26.

would use the language of uncertainty, there is a great eve of

:41:27.:41:29.

uncertainty as to what the future will be like for lots of people.

:41:30.:41:33.

Wondering what our future coming out of the European Union will be like

:41:34.:41:37.

and for people who have come here from overseas, wondering if there is

:41:38.:41:40.

still a place where they still feel welcome? Can they still make a home

:41:41.:41:46.

here? There is division and uncertainty and a lot of fear. Rabbi

:41:47.:41:52.

Rich, how do you assess this? There has always been division and the

:41:53.:41:57.

referendum has allowed people to say things that had become unspeakable

:41:58.:42:04.

and we are hearing reports across the country of people being abused

:42:05.:42:08.

in the streets because they look different or appear to be European,

:42:09.:42:11.

despite the fact they may be British, and comments like go back

:42:12.:42:16.

home and we are out to get you, never mind the more extreme acts. It

:42:17.:42:20.

is quite worrying and it is the task of legislators, because nobody else

:42:21.:42:25.

seems to be able to do it, to bring the community together and remember

:42:26.:42:28.

what we have in common and the values we need to share. How would

:42:29.:42:36.

you assess the levels of division? I think that the post-Brexit vote has

:42:37.:42:40.

given you find confidence to far right extremists who have always

:42:41.:42:44.

held these years and what is different this time is up in the

:42:45.:42:48.

past might have been attacks on particular community whereas if you

:42:49.:42:53.

look different now, if you speak a different language or have a

:42:54.:42:56.

different accent, you could potentially be under attack and that

:42:57.:42:58.

is what is happening around the country. There was also division

:42:59.:43:05.

within families and within churches, synagogues and mosques, workplaces,

:43:06.:43:13.

schools, isn't there? There is. You can draw a line through all sorts of

:43:14.:43:20.

communities. In my part of West London there is quite a bit of

:43:21.:43:23.

division around this issue and it seems to me that this is precisely

:43:24.:43:26.

the time when we need to come together to say that we are one

:43:27.:43:30.

country, a country that has always been very welcoming to all sorts of

:43:31.:43:36.

people from around the world, one of the wealthier and more stable

:43:37.:43:39.

countries. That is our vocation to do that but we cannot get too hung

:43:40.:43:44.

up about division, we must think about how to rebuild the sense of

:43:45.:43:49.

unity and the sense that this country is a welcoming place to

:43:50.:43:55.

live. Rabbi Rich, to pick up on that, there are many things we have

:43:56.:43:59.

in common, despite the fact that we might have differences over how

:44:00.:44:02.

people voted in this referendum vote? Yes, we have the thing, what

:44:03.:44:09.

are our values? They will have to be protected. Even though some people

:44:10.:44:13.

might attempt to punish people who they think voted the wrong way, that

:44:14.:44:18.

is not how a value led society works, it works on protecting the

:44:19.:44:22.

vulnerable and making people welcome, whether you are here or

:44:23.:44:26.

might come here and reflecting on our national and international

:44:27.:44:28.

responsible it is. We will not heal with the problem of millions of

:44:29.:44:32.

people moving and becoming refugees of the global climate challenge, if

:44:33.:44:37.

that is what needs to be dealt with, on our own. I think that patriotism

:44:38.:44:43.

is laudable, selfish nationalism is not so notable. Who is responsible

:44:44.:44:55.

for these divisions? Unfortunately, the language, rhetoric and

:44:56.:44:57.

underpinning material used by parts of the Leave campaign has given new

:44:58.:45:04.

found confidence to far right extremists and helps to legitimise

:45:05.:45:07.

some of their concerns that they might have expressed in close

:45:08.:45:11.

quarters before. Whatever happens, we are trying to rebuild Britain and

:45:12.:45:18.

that should be built on the basis of tolerance and the values that we

:45:19.:45:20.

always share together in this country. And initiatives like more

:45:21.:45:26.

in common, there needs to be political stability, which is

:45:27.:45:30.

lacking, and also civil society needs to come forward and say,

:45:31.:45:34.

enough is enough. We need to move on. To rebuild Britain. That should

:45:35.:45:37.

not be Do you acknowledge there was

:45:38.:45:48.

intolerance shown to people who voted to Leave. Some have been

:45:49.:45:53.

called racist when they are not. People have voted to leave for a

:45:54.:45:56.

variety of reasons and not every single person who voted to leave is

:45:57.:46:03.

a racist or bigoted, but the dominant campaign has, was

:46:04.:46:07.

intolerant towards minority communities, intolerant towards

:46:08.:46:10.

Muslims, intolerant towards migrants and all of that has given new-found

:46:11.:46:16.

confidence to people who have always held these views against minorities.

:46:17.:46:23.

I have not really seen anything from the pro-leave campaign which is

:46:24.:46:26.

robust enough to actually calm the divisions down in our country.

:46:27.:46:32.

Right. So therefore, you feel it falls to Faith Leaders. Is your

:46:33.:46:37.

voice heard? Is your voice, do people listen to you? I think what's

:46:38.:46:43.

really important is what's happening at grass-roots. One of my churches

:46:44.:46:50.

in my area which is near the Polish centre which had graffiti plastered

:46:51.:46:54.

over it. They got a card and the congregation to sign the card and

:46:55.:46:57.

they will be delivering that today as a gesture of solidarity to Polish

:46:58.:47:01.

people in that part of London. I was in a school last week, a church

:47:02.:47:05.

school in my area which is around 83% non-white, but is a remarkable

:47:06.:47:11.

example of racial harmony and really of very good achieving school. So it

:47:12.:47:15.

seems to me, it is partly us saying that, if you like, as religious

:47:16.:47:20.

leaders, but it is on the roots, encouraging people to reach out to

:47:21.:47:23.

their neighbours and make the effort to go across the road and say, "We

:47:24.:47:27.

value your presence here." Which is what churches and synagogues and

:47:28.:47:31.

mosques are doing elsewhere in the country. Do you believe we still do

:47:32.:47:36.

have a well of sievity in this country or just perhaps miss placed

:47:37.:47:40.

it? Undoubtedly. Many of the persons who claim to be fearful of

:47:41.:47:43.

immigrants don't have many of them in the area. And what's very

:47:44.:47:48.

interesting is that, it is our task on a local level to make people

:47:49.:47:52.

people feel they are not abandoned, whether they be from other

:47:53.:47:55.

minorities, other European countries, we are trying to reassure

:47:56.:48:01.

some of our European members that they're not unwelcomed. We just had

:48:02.:48:11.

our by annum and a number of fement living in particular areas where

:48:12.:48:19.

they voted Leave felt they weren't welcome. A German said, "I'm going

:48:20.:48:24.

back." What did you say to that person? I tried to reassure them.

:48:25.:48:29.

Even people who voted Leave, may not have voted because they hate Germans

:48:30.:48:32.

or they don't like the German people. They voted either out of

:48:33.:48:37.

protest or alienation about their own situation or some of them may

:48:38.:48:41.

have voted because the EU is not a perfect institution by any means at

:48:42.:48:45.

all. But our task locally is to build those links because that's

:48:46.:48:48.

really where it matters and nationally to change the tone of

:48:49.:48:52.

debate about Europe and many other matters in this society. Thank you

:48:53.:48:56.

very much all of you. Thank you for coming on the programme. Thank you.

:48:57.:48:59.

Some messages on social media from you. This is about the rent-to-own

:49:00.:49:04.

sector, the rent-to-own companies, the former Labour leader, Ed

:49:05.:49:09.

Miliband, presented a report earlier highlighting his concerns that

:49:10.:49:13.

perhaps vulnerable people, with mental health problems, or learning

:49:14.:49:17.

difficulties, were signing contracts for goods from rent-to-own firms

:49:18.:49:20.

that they didn't really understand. This tweet from Dave, "Well done for

:49:21.:49:24.

highlighting this." Julia tweets, "Well done, that was an important

:49:25.:49:29.

subject excellently presented." Catherine texted, "It is sad that

:49:30.:49:36.

companies shop at companies like BrightHouse. People who are poor

:49:37.:49:39.

can't afford to save for a rainy day fund. They can't get a loan and

:49:40.:49:46.

afford to buy new and charity shops are too expensive. John says, "I

:49:47.:49:52.

applaud Ed Miliband for his efforts to better regulate rent-to-own

:49:53.:50:00.

company. I question the success against companies like Wonga. How is

:50:01.:50:07.

this a success?" Damon, "Great stuff from Ed. His argument for a cap is

:50:08.:50:18.

compelling." Another viewer tweeted, "BrightHouse and companies like them

:50:19.:50:23.

should have more regulation." Jessica says, "I'm 24 and I have

:50:24.:50:28.

bipolar. Rent-to-own cost me my job and my health. My bill is ?68 per

:50:29.:50:36.

week and no helps you if you can't afford her payments. There is a

:50:37.:50:41.

charge per item if you're late with your weekly payment. They are

:50:42.:50:47.

awful." More on that after 10am. BrightHouse say rent-to-own is

:50:48.:50:52.

different to other forms of retail and they undertake extensive

:50:53.:50:57.

affordability assessments. If you want to share the full film by Ed

:50:58.:51:02.

Miliband, former Labour leader, you can find it on our programme page.

:51:03.:51:06.

We will talk to him live after 10am this morning.

:51:07.:51:10.

We'll be joined by senior Tories, one in the Cabinet,

:51:11.:51:15.

another a former minister, who will tell us, exclusively

:51:16.:51:17.

who they're backing as the next Conservative leader.

:51:18.:51:24.

So Wales are now just one game away from reaching the Euro 2016 final.

:51:25.:51:32.

The captain heads home the equaliser.

:51:33.:51:48.

Something special is happening here tonight.

:51:49.:52:28.

Wales are going into the semifinals.

:52:29.:52:32.

If you work hard enough and you are not afraid to dream

:52:33.:52:58.

I have had more failures than I have had success

:52:59.:53:10.

We are enjoying this win and I think we deserve it.

:53:11.:53:14.

It's 58 years since Wales last qualified for a football tournament

:53:15.:53:17.

and on Wednesday, they face Portugal in the semi-finals.

:53:18.:53:19.

This from a team which was ranked 112 in the world.

:53:20.:53:22.

Manager Chris Coleman says they thrive on being the underdogs,

:53:23.:53:25.

and as you heard him just say - they're not afraid of failure.

:53:26.:53:29.

So how have Wales managed to do so well?

:53:30.:53:36.

Matthew Syed is a sports journalist and author

:53:37.:53:38.

who has spent a lot of time looking at the pyschology of sport.

:53:39.:53:41.

Let's start with that post-match interview that Chris Coleman gave.

:53:42.:53:46.

What did you make of it first of all? Well, I loved it. I just want

:53:47.:53:50.

to point out I'm half Welsh! Good for you. I feel very strongly about

:53:51.:53:56.

that at the moment. It was a really significant interview because he

:53:57.:54:00.

said, "I've failed. I made mistakes but I've learned. Now I don't fail

:54:01.:54:04.

failure." You look at England football team and it is almost as if

:54:05.:54:09.

in their minds when they're playing they're thinking what if I misdirect

:54:10.:54:14.

the pass, am I going to be the one that's scapegoated. That narrows

:54:15.:54:18.

their creativity. They can't come up with adventurous football. It oozed

:54:19.:54:23.

out of them. What Wales have got and Coleman described it brilliantly in

:54:24.:54:26.

the post-match interview is they are looking at the possibilities rather

:54:27.:54:30.

than the potential down sides. They are not afraid of doing interesting

:54:31.:54:36.

things. Robson Karen u, can you imagine an England player doing that

:54:37.:54:39.

in the box? Maybe in the Premier League. Maybe in the Premier League,

:54:40.:54:42.

but not for the country, that's the thing. How do you get to a point in

:54:43.:54:46.

your mind where you are not afraid to fail? It is easy to say, isn't

:54:47.:54:51.

it? It is easy to say and there is a lot of evidence on this and

:54:52.:54:55.

interesting evidence. It is to do with the way you frame failure, how

:54:56.:54:59.

you think about it, do you see it as an indictment of who are, do you see

:55:00.:55:03.

it as a reason to give up, do you see it as something that's

:55:04.:55:06.

profoundly negative or a risk worth taking sth something that you could

:55:07.:55:11.

learn from? Something that would lead to fantastic possibilities.

:55:12.:55:15.

Just a redefinition of failure changes the interpretational

:55:16.:55:18.

process. OK. A really good example is Beckham. He failed in a really

:55:19.:55:25.

graphic way if you might rewining to 1998, you remember when he got sent

:55:26.:55:33.

off. I thought somewhat unfairly, but we've understood why it

:55:34.:55:37.

happened. The nexts season, he was vilified and turned into a dartboard

:55:38.:55:47.

and he was booed, he had his best season ever. He won the treble for

:55:48.:55:51.

Manchester United, he was Fifa player of the world, voted second

:55:52.:55:55.

and I asked him how did that happen? He said, "I didn't think of that

:55:56.:56:00.

failure as a reason to give up. I saw it as a great learning

:56:01.:56:03.

opportunity. You don't kick out at somebody. Think of our children,

:56:04.:56:10.

they don't like to ask questions in case they get it wrong. We're

:56:11.:56:14.

crippled by a fear of looking less good than we want to look and that

:56:15.:56:17.

stops us from growing and adapting and becoming the people we can

:56:18.:56:18.

become. Pm Let's talk to some Wash fans. How

:56:19.:56:31.

are you? Very good, thank you. You must still be on a high after Friday

:56:32.:56:35.

night? Yeah. It has been good. Definitely. We travelled over to

:56:36.:56:39.

legal and came back the same night, but I can't remember too much of the

:56:40.:56:44.

journey back to be honest! Let's introduce Thomas Edwards and Cassey

:56:45.:56:51.

Taylor. How are you? Good morning. I think Thomas and Cassey you booked a

:56:52.:56:55.

holiday to Nice which is where you are now, thinking Wales would never

:56:56.:56:58.

make it this far! Yeah, that's right. We booked it six

:56:59.:57:03.

months ago not thinking that Wales would be still playing in the

:57:04.:57:07.

tournament so now we've got to drive to Lyon on Wednesday afternoon and

:57:08.:57:10.

try and find some match tickets hopefully. That might be tough to

:57:11.:57:15.

get hold of a match ticket, even if you're in the area, you can unite

:57:16.:57:19.

with other Wales fans, can't you? We thought we couldn't be so close and

:57:20.:57:22.

not go up. That's our plan really. To get involved in the atmosphere.

:57:23.:57:27.

Gerald and Luke, how have Wales managed to get this far? I think it

:57:28.:57:31.

is about, probably about the system and our team spirit probably. They

:57:32.:57:35.

played together. They worked hard for each other and yeah, they've

:57:36.:57:39.

done really well. Thomas, what's your assessment of how they've got

:57:40.:57:44.

this far? I think it is the passion and the work ethic and like Luke

:57:45.:57:48.

said the team spirit of the players. I have not seen team spirit in any

:57:49.:57:51.

other team like that ever before. You look at other teams in the

:57:52.:57:54.

tournament, Portugal, Spain, Germany, I don't think anyone has

:57:55.:57:58.

got the same team spirit we had. I think that's what carried us this

:57:59.:58:05.

far. Case, what's your view? I think it is the fans. We were in the fan

:58:06.:58:10.

zone on Friday and everyone was so excited, I never saw anything like

:58:11.:58:16.

it. Wales won four out of five games and Portugal failed to win in 90

:58:17.:58:20.

minutes, what do you read into that in terms of Wednesday night? Well, I

:58:21.:58:27.

really fancy us. What we saw in the second half against Belgium was that

:58:28.:58:30.

the Belgium team, as good as they were, were playing as individuals

:58:31.:58:34.

and Portugal have a tendency to do the same. They are not as

:58:35.:58:37.

disciplined and I think that will play to our strengths really. I'm

:58:38.:58:42.

confident. OK, what about you Luke? Yeah, I feel the same. I feel Ramsay

:58:43.:58:47.

is a big loss and Ben Davis, but Johnny Williams can come in and he

:58:48.:58:53.

has done well and Connor is decent, if they played like they have

:58:54.:58:57.

throughout the tournament, they'll do well. Thank you very much for

:58:58.:59:02.

talking to us. Thomas and Cassey I hope you get tickets of the Matthew,

:59:03.:59:05.

what are you expecting? Rnlts I think it is 50/50. For me, more than

:59:06.:59:11.

anything else, this is a triumph of the team over the individual. It is

:59:12.:59:15.

like the Leicester store European Commission the players weren't the

:59:16.:59:19.

best in the world, but when you have that spirit, it is amazing what can

:59:20.:59:23.

be achieved. They have worked for each other and they've done runs for

:59:24.:59:27.

each other and you can see how this is creating the old cliche, the team

:59:28.:59:37.

is more than some of the parts. Rob e-mailed, "I see people making links

:59:38.:59:45.

to Welsh roots. I have a leak in my kitchen. I have a crush on Catherine

:59:46.:59:49.

Jenkins, surely this counts! ". Coming up, we'll be hearing

:59:50.:59:55.

from Nigel Farage who is giving a speech setting out what Ukip

:59:56.:59:57.

intends to do next after He is due to speak pretty soon

:59:58.:00:04.

actually. So we'll bring you some of that speech as soon as he begins

:00:05.:00:06.

talking. Let's get the latest

:00:07.:00:17.

weather update with Ben. In some parts there is fine and dry

:00:18.:00:25.

weather to come. The further north and west you are, we will see spells

:00:26.:00:28.

of rain at times. So let's take a look at detail and as I've mentioned

:00:29.:00:33.

to sum things up, the further south and east you are, things look dry.

:00:34.:00:37.

There will be sunshine in the sunshine and things will feel warm,

:00:38.:00:40.

but further north and west, yes, we will see some brispells, but -- dry

:00:41.:00:48.

spells. We have rain moving across into Scotland and parts of North

:00:49.:00:52.

Wales as we go on through the day. For the far north of Scotland, it is

:00:53.:00:55.

a mixture of sunshine and showers. To the south, a lot of dry weather,

:00:56.:00:58.

a fair amount of cloud, but some brightness. And it will feel humid

:00:59.:01:04.

with highs of 22 or 23 Celsius. This evening and tonight, cloudy

:01:05.:01:07.

conditions for most. Some outbreaks of rain, but it will clear away and

:01:08.:01:10.

the skies will start to clear by the end of the night. Cooler, fresher

:01:11.:01:15.

conditions pushing in across the north-west, a cooler fresher day

:01:16.:01:18.

tomorrow. Quite a breezy day. There will be a fair amount of sunshine

:01:19.:01:20.

and showers across Scotland. Some showers could be on the heavy side

:01:21.:01:24.

and temperatures ranging from 15 Celsius in the north to 21 Celsius

:01:25.:01:25.

dm the south. That's all for now. Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire -

:01:26.:01:31.

welcome to the programme. Let's go straight to Nigel Farage. I

:01:32.:01:41.

am aware that not everybody in this country is happy, a lot of young

:01:42.:01:45.

people happy mind up I scare stories and ivory angry and scared about the

:01:46.:01:51.

future. It is an irony that it is the youth of the country who appear

:01:52.:01:56.

to be worried, across the whole of the European Union it is the under

:01:57.:02:00.

30s that are protesting on the streets against undemocratic

:02:01.:02:04.

centralised control and, indeed, against the euro and virtually

:02:05.:02:07.

everything that emanates from Brussels. In time, I hope that some

:02:08.:02:13.

of these sharp divisions can be healed when people start to realise

:02:14.:02:18.

that actually, life outside the European Union is very exciting. And

:02:19.:02:23.

we have a much better, right future of being in charge of our own lives

:02:24.:02:28.

and the stock markets, despite everything George Osborne told us,

:02:29.:02:33.

have rallied strongly, the FTSE is about 14% higher bands in the

:02:34.:02:41.

February low and there is a great number of Commonwealth countries

:02:42.:02:44.

rushing forward in a bidding war to be the first people to sign a free

:02:45.:02:47.

trade deal with an independent United Kingdom. What the country

:02:48.:02:52.

needs is strongly Bishop, it needs direction, it needs not business as

:02:53.:03:00.

usual. I'm certain of one thing - that the United Kingdom will leave

:03:01.:03:04.

the European Union. We have won that. And in terms of Parliament and

:03:05.:03:10.

the courts, that is a great, historic victory. What I am certain

:03:11.:03:17.

of is what real is this government going to cut? And we need a new

:03:18.:03:20.

Prime Minister who puts down some pretty clear red lines that were not

:03:21.:03:24.

going to give him on issues like free movement and we need a Prime

:03:25.:03:29.

Minister who will not sell us out to what is known as the single market

:03:30.:03:34.

but effectively a big business protectionist cartel. We need a

:03:35.:03:39.

vision from the new leader, a vision that shows we will engage with the

:03:40.:03:43.

world and turn us into an enterprise economy. To do that and to achieve

:03:44.:03:50.

that, we need a team of negotiators that include figures from across the

:03:51.:03:52.

political spectrum which reflects that Brexit vote and, crucially, we

:03:53.:03:58.

need some business people who know not only how the world works but

:03:59.:04:03.

understand the importance of lobbying industry directly. We need

:04:04.:04:08.

to be lobbying the German car industry, the French wine producers,

:04:09.:04:14.

because next year, but France and Germany have general elections. It

:04:15.:04:18.

is pressure on Angela Merkel, one Francois Hollande, from within those

:04:19.:04:23.

countries, that is likely to get us the best deal. And we need to go

:04:24.:04:28.

global and there is no reason to wait for this at all. As soon as we

:04:29.:04:31.

get the new Prime Minister we need teams of negotiators. I am told we

:04:32.:04:36.

don't have the skill or the confidence or the expertise, within

:04:37.:04:40.

our own Civil Service, which I suppose is a price you pay when you

:04:41.:04:43.

give away the ability to run your own country. That is headhunt, get

:04:44.:04:49.

them in from Singapore and South Korea or Chile or Switzerland or any

:04:50.:04:52.

of these countries who have managed to achieve far more in terms of

:04:53.:04:56.

global trade deals than we have as part of the European Union. We are

:04:57.:05:03.

not in charge of our own future. I want us to grab this opportunity

:05:04.:05:08.

with both hands. One of the questions being asked is, what about

:05:09.:05:15.

Ukip? What is the future after this result? We have clearly established

:05:16.:05:20.

ourselves as a third political force in this country and this year we

:05:21.:05:25.

need to extend that collective representation to the Welsh Assembly

:05:26.:05:28.

and to the London Assembly. There is no doubt that without us, without

:05:29.:05:33.

the growth in Ukip, there would not have been a referendum and there was

:05:34.:05:38.

no doubt that when it came to the ground campaign in this referendum,

:05:39.:05:44.

it was the People's army of Ukip who were out there delivering leaflets,

:05:45.:05:47.

putting up the posters and doing all that work that needed desperately to

:05:48.:05:52.

be done. And I do believe myself that it is Ukip and the Ukip

:05:53.:05:57.

messages that inspired nonvoters to go out there and make a difference.

:05:58.:06:03.

Without Ukip, there is no way the leave vote would have got over the

:06:04.:06:08.

line. Ukip needs to be strong. We need to be strong and push to try to

:06:09.:06:12.

make sure that this country gets the best possible terms. And in

:06:13.:06:18.

electoral terms, while the party has built up a very loyal following of

:06:19.:06:23.

people, they want to go out and vote Ukip at every given opportunity and

:06:24.:06:28.

they see as has been the 1-party that is actually prepared to stand

:06:29.:06:33.

up for ordinary, decent people. I feel that the deeper the crisis in

:06:34.:06:38.

the Labour Party becomes, and there is no sign of that going away, and

:06:39.:06:43.

the further the Parliamentary Labour Party and the Labour leadership get

:06:44.:06:46.

away from their voters, I feel perhaps that is perhaps where our

:06:47.:06:52.

greatest potential lies. Ukip right now is in a very solid financial

:06:53.:06:57.

position, I do believe we need some reform of its management structures,

:06:58.:07:00.

there is further professionalism that needs to be done, but the party

:07:01.:07:06.

is in a pretty good place. Certainly compared to all the others. And if

:07:07.:07:12.

we do not get, if we do not get a satisfactory Brexit deal, that,

:07:13.:07:19.

allied to the woes of the Labour Party and that groundswell of

:07:20.:07:22.

support that is amongst Ukip loyalists, if we don't get a good

:07:23.:07:27.

Brexit deal that in 2020, watch this space. And the other subject of

:07:28.:07:34.

speculation has been, what am I going to do? Well, all I can say on

:07:35.:07:38.

this long journey is a huge thanks to everybody who has helped me, many

:07:39.:07:44.

are in this room, and it has been a very long journey. Not at every

:07:45.:07:50.

stage of the way an easy one. Although most of it, I have to say,

:07:51.:07:56.

has been tremendous fun. When I think back to when I first stood for

:07:57.:08:02.

Ukip, for anybody, in the East by-election, which took place in

:08:03.:08:06.

1994, and I managed to scrape past screaming Lord such by a massive 164

:08:07.:08:12.

votes, and to have gone from that to being part of a national campaign

:08:13.:08:19.

that attracted 17.5 million votes for the Brexit, that says to me that

:08:20.:08:24.

although it has been tough at times, it has certainly been worth it. I

:08:25.:08:28.

came into politics from business because I believe that this nation

:08:29.:08:33.

should be self-governing. I have never been and never wanted to be a

:08:34.:08:39.

career politician. My aim in being in politics was to get Britain out

:08:40.:08:43.

of the European Union, that is what we voted for in that referendum two

:08:44.:08:49.

weeks ago and that is why I now feel that I have done my bit but I could

:08:50.:08:56.

not possibly achieve more than we managed to get in that referendum

:08:57.:08:59.

and so I feel it is right that I should stand aside as either of

:09:00.:09:04.

Ukip. I will continue to support the party and support the new leader and

:09:05.:09:09.

a double what the negotiation process in Brussels like a hawk and

:09:10.:09:15.

perhaps comment in the European Parliament from time to time. I am

:09:16.:09:19.

also very keen to help the independence movements springing up

:09:20.:09:23.

in other parts of the European Union because I am certain of one thing-

:09:24.:09:27.

we have not seen the last country that wants to leave the European

:09:28.:09:33.

Union. It has been a huge chunk of my life doing this and it is not

:09:34.:09:37.

easy perhaps when you feel a degree of ownership of something to let it

:09:38.:09:44.

go. But it does come at a cost to me and perhaps to those around me.

:09:45.:09:49.

During the referendum campaign I said I want my country back. What I

:09:50.:09:54.

am saying today is I want my life back. And it begins right now. Thank

:09:55.:09:57.

you! APPLAUSE

:09:58.:10:07.

Nigel Farage, the former leader of Ukip, he has just said he has done

:10:08.:10:11.

his bit, here standing down as leader, it is right to stand aside,

:10:12.:10:15.

it sounded like it is effective from right now. And he said it is right

:10:16.:10:21.

for a new leader to take over. I will watch like hot, he says, as the

:10:22.:10:27.

UK gets involved in this Brexit Hoseasons and I will perhaps

:10:28.:10:31.

comment, he says, from time to time in the European Parliament. He is

:10:32.:10:34.

not leaving politics altogether, just as leader as -- of Ukip. He

:10:35.:10:40.

says the main aim was to get Britain out of the EU, which he says he has

:10:41.:10:45.

achieved and he also says if they don't get a satisfactory Brexit

:10:46.:10:49.

deal, in 2020 watch this space. Norman Smith is at Westminster.

:10:50.:10:56.

Nigel Farage wants his life back? He has stood down before? I think he

:10:57.:11:03.

means at this time, it would be a bit much to quit once, go back and

:11:04.:11:06.

then do that again. He seems to mean it. Because he believes they have

:11:07.:11:11.

achieved their long-term ambition, what Ukip was set up for, what he

:11:12.:11:16.

went into politics for, to get written out of the European Union.

:11:17.:11:22.

He argues that Ukip isn't much -- is in a much better position, they

:11:23.:11:27.

don't need to carry on, they are the third party in British politics and

:11:28.:11:32.

let us hear what he has to say... I will not be changing my mind again,

:11:33.:11:44.

I can promise you. You said you wanted a strong leader who could

:11:45.:11:48.

secure a Brexit deal and a new Prime Minister, which candidate to you

:11:49.:11:53.

feel is best for that? Is at Andrea Leadsom? I am not related to Alan

:11:54.:11:59.

Banks! I am not in a civil partnership with him! He has

:12:00.:12:04.

supported Ukip but many Eurosceptic causes and he is one of the great

:12:05.:12:07.

heroes of this movement. But his picks for himself and I think we

:12:08.:12:12.

have to have a Brexit Prime Minister. We have to have somebody

:12:13.:12:17.

who was bold and has vision, this is a big moment in the history of this

:12:18.:12:21.

country. There are three candidates in support of the Brexit campaign

:12:22.:12:25.

and I am not going to down any one of them by offering their support at

:12:26.:12:30.

this moment. But I wanted very much to be one of the three. This is not

:12:31.:12:35.

a moment for business as usual, this is a moment for radical leadership,

:12:36.:12:40.

for inspiration, and to take advantage of this unbelievable

:12:41.:12:48.

global opportunity before us. But when Bennett. Are you therefore

:12:49.:12:54.

going to lead logics? You are going to form a new party with Alan Banks

:12:55.:13:01.

or other Eurosceptics? I've do like this chap but I get bored with these

:13:02.:13:06.

questions. No, I have made it clear I am starting aside, I would see out

:13:07.:13:12.

my time in the European Parliament, I will go on cold reading that group

:13:13.:13:17.

and I will watch very carefully once Article 50 has been triggered, how

:13:18.:13:24.

those negotiations go. And I will continue to support Ukip, a party in

:13:25.:13:29.

a very good position, in a very sound position, one or two reforms

:13:30.:13:35.

need making, one or two steps up, but I will go on supporting Ukip and

:13:36.:13:38.

the leadership and let us see what happens. Honestly, if the government

:13:39.:13:47.

does not get a good deal, if it gets in over free movement, if it

:13:48.:13:51.

concedes over this dreadful single market, then I think Ukip's best

:13:52.:13:59.

days have yet to come. Notwithstanding what you said about

:14:00.:14:07.

candidates, do you see the potential for closer cooperation whenever that

:14:08.:14:12.

goes with the Conservative Party that is led by someone that you find

:14:13.:14:16.

acceptable overtime? Could we be moving in that direction? If there

:14:17.:14:22.

was to be a General Election this autumn, I do not think there will

:14:23.:14:26.

be, but if there was, my own view would be that Ukip should not be

:14:27.:14:33.

wasting resources and talent and energy I guess people who have the

:14:34.:14:37.

guts to stand up against their own party leaderships and fight for the

:14:38.:14:41.

Brexit. Longer term, depending on who becomes a go, we might see a

:14:42.:14:46.

different kind of politics and the less said the effects have been

:14:47.:14:50.

seismic, I fully expect within the next couple of years that he will

:14:51.:14:53.

see some different parties in British politics. You likely hood

:14:54.:14:57.

that a wing of the Labour Party and Lib Dems get together is required

:14:58.:15:02.

high. For all of you at Westminster, you think the last week has been

:15:03.:15:05.

George Lucas, I expect there is more to come. -- to modules. What sort of

:15:06.:15:14.

real do you envisage Ukip having within these negotiations? Do you

:15:15.:15:18.

have to be part of the team? And what did you make of Philip

:15:19.:15:23.

Hammond's few that will have to be some sort of concession free

:15:24.:15:26.

movement? For any access to the single market?

:15:27.:15:31.

I think it is desirable is a cross-party element to these

:15:32.:15:37.

negotiations. Because that reflects the vote. That reflects the

:15:38.:15:41.

cross-party nature of the Eurosceptic movement. But more

:15:42.:15:46.

important than that is that we use people who genuinely understand how

:15:47.:15:50.

Brussels works, and who have extensive networks and contacts.

:15:51.:15:54.

With the German car industry, you know, with French manufacturers, or

:15:55.:16:00.

wine producers... The idea we should approach these negotiations simply

:16:01.:16:05.

as an elected politicians from one party meeting in corridors in

:16:06.:16:08.

Brussels is the wrong approach. It needs more breadth, more

:16:09.:16:12.

imagination. An absolute priority is to bring in business people. But a

:16:13.:16:17.

desirability. And, again, a message to the country, to try and bring

:16:18.:16:21.

people together. To make people understand this is about more than

:16:22.:16:24.

the Conservative Party who happened to be in government, it is about our

:16:25.:16:28.

country, choosing a new course... Look, I have no idea whether they

:16:29.:16:33.

want ask me, or anybody else in Ukip to be a part of this. But we as a

:16:34.:16:36.

party actually have some good knowledge how Brussels works. And we

:16:37.:16:41.

have some pretty senior business figures amongst our supporters. As

:16:42.:16:47.

for what deal the government cuts, Jess, I understand already we are

:16:48.:16:50.

beginning to hear people saying that, actually, there will be

:16:51.:16:57.

backsliding. -- yes. 17.5 million people voted very clearly for us to

:16:58.:17:00.

be an independent nation that isn't part of the customs union called the

:17:01.:17:04.

single market. And without the free movement of people. I suspect...

:17:05.:17:10.

What we will do is try and keep the pressure on. But if they do give

:17:11.:17:16.

way, then I repeat the point, that as far as Ukip is concerned, for the

:17:17.:17:20.

2020 elections, you ain't seen nothing yet. ITV News, what will you

:17:21.:17:29.

do next? Would you like to be part of the team that negotiates Brexit?

:17:30.:17:36.

And, who do you think should be the next leader of Ukip, Douglas Castle

:17:37.:17:40.

might have a good argument. That is a terribly good idea. I like that.

:17:41.:17:45.

-- Douglas Carswell. CHUCKLES

:17:46.:17:51.

I repeat the point that come as you know, we have the biggest allegation

:17:52.:17:56.

of British MEPs in the European Parliament. We will necessarily be a

:17:57.:18:02.

part of this process, whether it is formally, or informally, because

:18:03.:18:05.

much of what is discussed will get debated and voted upon in the

:18:06.:18:09.

European Parliament. So we will do that. If they Brexit government

:18:10.:18:14.

wants to use Ukip foot Ukip because more, and it should think about

:18:15.:18:16.

Labour figures, as well, that will be all for the good -- or Ukip

:18:17.:18:23.

members. May the best man or best woman when, I say. -- win. An

:18:24.:18:32.

interesting thing has happened since the victory. A lot of the

:18:33.:18:36.

Conservative Party wanted Brexit have been trying to back away from

:18:37.:18:40.

you as fast as possible. And back away from your campaign. I just

:18:41.:18:46.

wondered how you felt about that. They say it is nothing to do with

:18:47.:18:49.

you, nothing to do with immigration, it was about a Carswellian

:18:50.:18:58.

sovereignty idea. Do you agree with that?

:18:59.:19:00.

CHUCKLES As I said, I'm not a career

:19:01.:19:04.

politician. That is how career politicians think and speak. They

:19:05.:19:09.

think about the tribe of their party before their conscience,

:19:10.:19:11.

constituents, or country. It is a great relief to sit here and say, I

:19:12.:19:18.

will step aside... So what will actually happen now is in future I

:19:19.:19:22.

will not be constrained when I answer questions like that. The real

:19:23.:19:25.

me will now come out. CHUCKLES

:19:26.:19:30.

They can, you know, make it up as much as they want. Look, I repeat

:19:31.:19:34.

the point, there would not have been a referendum without Ukip, there

:19:35.:19:37.

would not have been an effective ground game in the leave campaign

:19:38.:19:42.

without the Ukip People's Army. Unless we take on some of those

:19:43.:19:46.

issues that many in Westminster, or at smart dinner parties in Notting

:19:47.:19:49.

Hill find it a bit tricky, unless we take one of those we would not have

:19:50.:19:54.

all those nonvoters to turn out. And that is what made the difference and

:19:55.:20:04.

got us over the line. You still have at least two years of service as an

:20:05.:20:10.

MEP. Are you going to serve it out in full and take part in

:20:11.:20:14.

proceedings? And during the negotiations will you try and

:20:15.:20:19.

influence from within the parliament and the party? Yes, of course. There

:20:20.:20:24.

will be a strong Ukip voice in that parliament during these

:20:25.:20:27.

renegotiations. And if we see significant sliding, or weakness...

:20:28.:20:33.

Or frankly appeasement from the British government, we will

:20:34.:20:39.

certainly say so. Are we going to see out to mark the years? Well, I

:20:40.:20:43.

hope the next Prime Minister is somebody who intends to roll up

:20:44.:20:46.

their sleeves, and complete the job, well within two years, and then we

:20:47.:20:53.

will be like the turkeys who voted for Christmas. -- otherwise we will

:20:54.:21:00.

be like. Do you think the tone you took in the European Parliament last

:21:01.:21:03.

week was a kid negotiating tactic which will help us get the best deal

:21:04.:21:07.

for the UK? -- good negotiating tactic. I got up to speed after what

:21:08.:21:16.

was, without doubt, the worst event ever in the history of the European

:21:17.:21:22.

union project. I was so howled down, and shouted down, that twice Martin

:21:23.:21:27.

Schulz sprang to my defence. I've never seen this happen before with

:21:28.:21:31.

him. But it was quite extraordinary. It showed the fact that they are

:21:32.:21:36.

simply not prepared to listen. They will continue with their political

:21:37.:21:43.

projects, which is why it is doomed. In the face of many catcalls and a

:21:44.:21:46.

huge amount of abuse, they got just a tiny piece of my mind back. And,

:21:47.:21:53.

actually, how we should negotiate? Well, all I will say is that if we

:21:54.:22:00.

start to be weak, if we start to concede in these negotiations, we

:22:01.:22:04.

will get a rotten deal. We need a Prime Minister that recognises that,

:22:05.:22:07.

actually, we have got the trump cards, and we have got the trump

:22:08.:22:11.

cards because we buy a lot more from them than they do from us. The

:22:12.:22:17.

opportunity for Brexit actually comes before the general elections

:22:18.:22:23.

-- the German elections and the French elections. We need to stand

:22:24.:22:27.

up for ourselves. Some of these arguments, that we cannot get access

:22:28.:22:31.

to the single market unless we are members of that single market...

:22:32.:22:35.

Just looking at the figures yesterday, something like nearly 1.5

:22:36.:22:41.

euros trillion worth of goods were sold into the Eurozone last year by

:22:42.:22:44.

countries who don't even have a trade deal. Let's recognise the

:22:45.:22:47.

strength of our negotiating position. Andrew Sinclair, if we are

:22:48.:22:55.

now going to hear from the real you, can I ask you, what have you made of

:22:56.:22:58.

the various attempts to try to answer each year in the past, and

:22:59.:23:01.

will you now bury the hatchet with Douglas Carswell? I will bury the

:23:02.:23:09.

hatchet with anybody. Look... When you lead a political party, and I

:23:10.:23:13.

have been doing this for quite a while, you make decisions along the

:23:14.:23:16.

way not everybody is happy with. Your style will not suit everybody.

:23:17.:23:23.

I have no desire to do anything other than to fully support the aims

:23:24.:23:28.

of Ukip and the next leader. And as I work with the person making all of

:23:29.:23:33.

the decisions, that may involve falling out with people, as well.

:23:34.:23:37.

INAUDIBLE It may well be, get down to the

:23:38.:23:41.

bookies, but I would not put too much on it myself. Daily Mirror,

:23:42.:23:46.

what conversations have you had with either Andrea Leadsom or Aaron Banks

:23:47.:23:51.

about the Tory leadership? And are you putting yourself forward to be a

:23:52.:23:54.

member of the team negotiating Brexit in Brussels? I'm not putting

:23:55.:23:59.

myself forward. I did spend 20 years in business. I've spent a lot of

:24:00.:24:02.

time in Brussels. I may have something to give if they want it,

:24:03.:24:06.

if they don't, then that is fine. As for who I am speaking to... I speak

:24:07.:24:11.

to Aaron Banks regularly, but I repeat the point, I don't do

:24:12.:24:16.

everything he suggests. STUDIO: Ukip are also looking for a

:24:17.:24:24.

new leader this morning, alongside the Conservative Party, so here are

:24:25.:24:28.

some messages. This is what you are saying about this breaking news.

:24:29.:24:34.

Everything how UK politicians should be saying instead of infighting and

:24:35.:24:39.

pushing personal agenda, says one person. Paul says, how long is he

:24:40.:24:43.

resigning for this time? Audrey says Nigel Farage is shouted down for

:24:44.:24:50.

talking about the issues which are real men this country. Love him or

:24:51.:24:54.

hate him, he tackles subjects most people don't wish to engage with. --

:24:55.:25:03.

which are real in this country. Nigel Sears, don't go, Nigel, we

:25:04.:25:08.

need you! And another tweaked, this is a resignation speech, Carswell

:25:09.:25:19.

has ousted him. -- Nigel says. No love lost between them. Carswell

:25:20.:25:25.

Has just tweeted a smiley face, and that is all. The two are daggers

:25:26.:25:32.

drawn. There has been a rift between them for some time. Interesting that

:25:33.:25:38.

Nigel Farage said we are the turkeys who voted for Christmas. I wonder

:25:39.:25:43.

if, at the end of the day, he has concluded he cannot do anything more

:25:44.:25:46.

with Ukip. They've gone as far as they could go. They have the Brexit

:25:47.:25:51.

referendum they wanted. Where do they go now? What is the point of

:25:52.:25:56.

Ukip now? If there is backsliding over the negotiations he says he

:25:57.:26:01.

will look out. Ukip will still be a force, etc. But he has been at this

:26:02.:26:06.

for a long time. He may feel he has gone as far as he can go. But isn't

:26:07.:26:11.

it amazing, in the wake of this EU referendum, everything has changed?

:26:12.:26:17.

David Cameron, George Osborne, pretty much finished. Boris Johnson,

:26:18.:26:21.

finished. Michael Gove finished. Jeremy Corbyn clinging on. One of

:26:22.:26:28.

the key fixtures of our political landscape just seem to be

:26:29.:26:31.

disappearing. And all because of this huge force unleashed by the EU

:26:32.:26:36.

referendum. Nigel Farage said he would stay on as an MEP for two

:26:37.:26:41.

years, but I suspect this time he will walk. I don't think he will

:26:42.:26:45.

think I want to come back. I got the sense he feels he has gone now

:26:46.:26:49.

pretty much as far as he can go. What is interesting is he is such a

:26:50.:26:56.

divisive figure, frankly, you talk to people in the Leave campaign and

:26:57.:26:59.

they were desperate to keep him at arm 's length. Yet in that whole

:27:00.:27:04.

campaign he kept getting in the headlights. Think of that very

:27:05.:27:07.

controversial post of that picture of the EU migrants queueing. Think

:27:08.:27:12.

of his remarks about Cologne and sex attacks. He kept on dominating the

:27:13.:27:17.

headlines. Listening to him, he basically said the referendum was

:27:18.:27:21.

won by Ukip because they managed to get out those people who do not

:27:22.:27:24.

traditionally vote. He said it was Ukip who got people out who

:27:25.:27:28.

otherwise would not have turned out to this referendum. In other words,

:27:29.:27:32.

it was Ukip's victory, and he is now bailing out.

:27:33.:27:38.

Thank you. More reaction to come. As well as this. Who will take over the

:27:39.:27:41.

Conservative leadership, who is heading to number ten? We will find

:27:42.:27:46.

out who two senior Tories will be backing. And Ed Miliband has been

:27:47.:27:51.

investigating renter on companies for this programme and we will talk

:27:52.:27:55.

to him live in the programme and we will also get his reaction to Nigel

:27:56.:28:03.

Farage's resignation. -- rent-to-own companies.

:28:04.:28:14.

Nigel Farage has resigned as leader of Ukip. Speaking in London he said

:28:15.:28:20.

Ukip is in a strong position and does not need his leadership any

:28:21.:28:23.

more. He said there would not have been a referendum on Britain's

:28:24.:28:27.

ownership on the EU without Ukip. He said he had now achieved his goal. I

:28:28.:28:32.

have never been and I have never wanted to be a career politician. My

:28:33.:28:37.

aim in being in politics was to get Britain out of the European Union.

:28:38.:28:42.

That is what we voted for in that referendum two weeks ago. That is

:28:43.:28:48.

why I now feel I have done my bit. That I couldn't possibly achieve

:28:49.:28:53.

more than what we managed to get in that referendum. So I feel it is

:28:54.:28:57.

right I should now stand aside as leader of Ukip.

:28:58.:29:01.

George Osborne has pledged to slash the amount of tax businesses pay

:29:02.:29:05.

in order to encourage investment in the wake

:29:06.:29:07.

In a newspaper interview, the Chancellor said cutting

:29:08.:29:11.

corporation tax was one of his five priorities to show the UK

:29:12.:29:13.

He also pledged to maintain the northern powerhouse project despite

:29:14.:29:23.

the Brexit vote. Boris Johnson has accused

:29:24.:29:27.

the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be

:29:28.:29:30.

made to work in the UK's interests. The former leave campaign says

:29:31.:29:36.

hysteria is sweeping parts of the population who wanted to remain in

:29:37.:29:37.

the EU. He argues that they need more

:29:38.:29:38.

reassurance. The Iraqi government has declared

:29:39.:29:47.

three days of national mourning after a bomb in the capital of

:29:48.:29:52.

Baghdad wounded about 150 people and killed about 60. A lorry packed with

:29:53.:29:57.

explosives was detonated in a busy shopping area. Islamic State says

:29:58.:30:04.

they carried out the attack. Join me for BBC newsroom live at 11 o'clock.

:30:05.:30:06.

See you then. We did miss some sports bulletins,

:30:07.:30:16.

but Nick has stepped into the breach! I will make it up! Thanks,

:30:17.:30:27.

Victoria, here are your sports headlines. Andy Murray will play the

:30:28.:30:30.

Australian firebrand Nick Kyrgios in the last 16 on Centre Court today.

:30:31.:30:32.

Murray has been playing down talk of being the favourite, after Novak

:30:33.:30:37.

Djokovic's shock exit on Saturday. There was an epic match on court

:30:38.:30:40.

two, Jo Wilfred Tsonga of France beating the American John Isner

:30:41.:30:42.

19-17 in the decider. You might remember Isner beat Tsonga's

:30:43.:30:44.

compatriot Nicolas Mahut 70-68 in a fifth set six years ago. Reigning

:30:45.:30:56.

champion Serena Williams powered into the fourth round with a

:30:57.:30:58.

straights sets victory over Annika Beck. Williams claimed her 300th

:30:59.:31:01.

Grand Slam win in just 51 minutes, losing only three games along the

:31:02.:31:03.

way. She now faces 13th seed Svetlana Kuznetsova of Russia.

:31:04.:31:14.

Oaks Wales have been training at their camp in Brittany, ahead of

:31:15.:31:17.

their European Championship semifinal against Portugal on

:31:18.:31:19.

Wednesday. There are decisions to be made over who'll replace the

:31:20.:31:21.

suspended Aaron Ramsey and Ben Davies.

:31:22.:31:26.

And Iceland's dream run at the European Championship is over, after

:31:27.:31:30.

hosts France beat them 5-2 in Paris to reach the semi-finals. Arsenal's

:31:31.:31:32.

Olivier Giroud scored twice for France, who play Germany on

:31:33.:31:43.

Thursday. And six-time champion jockey Kieran Fallon has retired

:31:44.:31:45.

from the saddle. He's won 16 British Classic races in his career but he

:31:46.:31:48.

had a fall on the gallops last week and trainer Michael O'Callaghan said

:31:49.:31:51.

that at the age of 51, Fallon just doesn't bounce like he used to. I

:31:52.:32:01.

think you should sit on the couch and just watch the racing! County

:32:02.:32:07.

comeback tomorrow? I will be back! The start of a wonderful new

:32:08.:32:09.

relationship, I can tell! In an exclusive report for this

:32:10.:32:22.

programme the former Labour Leader Ed Miliband is calling

:32:23.:32:24.

for better regulation He wants to see a cap introduced

:32:25.:32:26.

on the amount of interest Rent-to-own companies

:32:27.:32:30.

allow shoppers to pay for items such as TVs,

:32:31.:32:35.

games consoles, fridges and washing machines in weekly instalments,

:32:36.:32:37.

spread over years with interest. But consumers can end up paying up

:32:38.:32:39.

to three times more for the product and we've discovered that some

:32:40.:32:43.

companies are selling these goods to vulnerable people with mental

:32:44.:32:45.

health problems and learning difficulties which has resulted

:32:46.:32:47.

in concerns they may not understand The Citizens Advice Bureau tells us

:32:48.:32:50.

it receives thousands of complaints a month about the sector

:32:51.:32:53.

and the regulator must do more Ed Miliband has campaigned

:32:54.:32:56.

against rent to own - Brighthouse is the largest

:32:57.:33:01.

firm in the sector - and he thinks people should use

:33:02.:33:03.

credit unions instead. Here's a short extract

:33:04.:33:05.

of his exclusive report As leader of the Labour Party

:33:06.:33:07.

and now as a backbench MP, I have talked about the need

:33:08.:33:11.

for firms to do right by their BrightHouse have 300

:33:12.:33:16.

stores across the country, One of them is in Doncaster,

:33:17.:33:23.

in my constituency. I am concerned that BrightHouse

:33:24.:33:27.

are taking advantage of people on benefits

:33:28.:33:30.

and working on low incomes. In the course of our investigation

:33:31.:33:35.

I have been really shocked to find that BrightHouse are selling

:33:36.:33:38.

to people with mental health Paul, not his real name,

:33:39.:33:40.

asked us to hide his identity. He has learning difficulties

:33:41.:33:53.

and mental health problems. Do you want to tell me

:33:54.:33:56.

what you are owing to them and what goods you have got

:33:57.:34:01.

with them? How have you ended up with five

:34:02.:34:03.

items, do you think? BrightHouse denies exploiting

:34:04.:34:18.

consumers in vulnerable circumstances or selling items

:34:19.:34:29.

to people who clearly cannot afford them and says they have sufficient

:34:30.:34:43.

policies and procedures in place to prevent these

:34:44.:34:45.

practices from happening. The Financial Conduct Authority,

:34:46.:34:47.

the body that regulates the rent-to-own sector,

:34:48.:34:49.

told us: But I don't think that's clear enough and the guidelines

:34:50.:35:05.

need to be stricter. The weekly payments at BrightHouse

:35:06.:35:12.

may seem cheap, but the total But add in compulsory 5-star

:35:13.:35:15.

service, that includes delivery and installation at ?55,

:35:16.:35:27.

and Service Plus, repair or replacement of your item,

:35:28.:35:32.

that costs ?136, on top of that interest rates of 69.9% per year

:35:33.:35:37.

and payments spread over three years, you end up paying

:35:38.:35:41.

a grand total of ?1092. I wanted to speak to BrightHouse

:35:42.:35:45.

but they declined to be interviewed. So did the Consumer Credit Trade

:35:46.:35:49.

Association and the Finance And Leasing Association,

:35:50.:35:51.

the industry bodies There are those who make

:35:52.:35:56.

the case that there is a gap in the market and Perfect Home,

:35:57.:36:02.

BrightHouse and others provide The fundamental question

:36:03.:36:04.

is whether or not we think these people should be able to opt

:36:05.:36:09.

into a contract where they pay more overall but they have the appliances

:36:10.:36:12.

tomorrow, or whether or not they shouldn't have these

:36:13.:36:17.

appliances at all. It is an injustice to tell

:36:18.:36:20.

people at the bottom that because they are poor they can't

:36:21.:36:22.

have things that in 2016 From what I have seen,

:36:23.:36:25.

too often rent-to-own companies are taking advantage of people

:36:26.:36:28.

who have nowhere else to go. The regulator needs to stop the most

:36:29.:36:31.

vulnerable in our society Rent-to-own companies need to stop

:36:32.:36:33.

selling goods to people I think there should be a cap

:36:34.:36:40.

on the total cost rent-to-own It has been done with

:36:41.:36:46.

the payday lenders like We wanted to speak to someone

:36:47.:36:49.

from BrightHouse on the programme today but they declined -

:36:50.:36:55.

instead they gave us "We note that this feature

:36:56.:36:57.

is presented by an avowed critic, who consistently

:36:58.:37:01.

misrepresents our business. BrightHouse serves those

:37:02.:37:03.

lower-income families who are We can speak to Ed Miliband,

:37:04.:37:06.

former leader of the Labour Party and MP for Doncaster North and also

:37:07.:37:34.

to Ryan Bourne, who is head of public policy at the Institute

:37:35.:37:37.

of Economic Affairs, think tank. Welcome. What is wrong with the

:37:38.:37:47.

shops providing this service to people who cannot afford to pay for

:37:48.:37:51.

things up front with cash or who do not qualify for a credit card?

:37:52.:37:56.

Because the costs are exorbitant. Often three times the price on the

:37:57.:38:00.

High Street, because they are selling without clear information to

:38:01.:38:04.

people about what they are buying, they are selling to people who

:38:05.:38:08.

cannot afford to buy and they are only together all sorts of things,

:38:09.:38:11.

like 5-star service, which you have no option but to pay for, so there

:38:12.:38:16.

is a host of things wrong with this sector. In the end, it isn't a good

:38:17.:38:23.

deal for my constituents and from my experience, I became an avowed

:38:24.:38:28.

critic as BrightHouse say I am. They say they carry out extensive

:38:29.:38:33.

affordability assessments and the customer knows what they will end up

:38:34.:38:40.

paying? I do not think that is right, we heard in the longer

:38:41.:38:42.

version of the film on the website, Zoe from BrightHouse, she said I do

:38:43.:38:50.

not feel proper affordability checks are being done, I felt I was selling

:38:51.:38:54.

to people who cannot really afford to pay and we talked again to people

:38:55.:38:57.

in the film who did not really look at all of the finances and you have

:38:58.:39:02.

had responses already to the film of people saying, I have got into

:39:03.:39:06.

terrible trouble. The response from somebody with bipolar disorder who

:39:07.:39:11.

is paying ?68 every week to the rent-to-own sector, which has been

:39:12.:39:16.

ignored for too long. The regulator needs to look at these practices and

:39:17.:39:20.

the rules that govern that sector. Is Ed Miliband right? To be fair,

:39:21.:39:27.

his BT was conflating two different issues, selling to people who have

:39:28.:39:31.

mental health issues, that should be governed by regulation and it is, as

:39:32.:39:35.

the NCA knowledge. But the other thing is, he seems to be saying,

:39:36.:39:42.

because these products are expensive he needs some price cap and people

:39:43.:39:46.

will not have to pay so much. The problem with these price controls

:39:47.:39:49.

and I know he has advocated these in the past for the mental and energy

:39:50.:39:54.

sectors, if you constrain the amount of profits that companies can make,

:39:55.:39:59.

constrain pricing, they can provide less of it in the first place. It is

:40:00.:40:03.

all very well saying some people pay lots of money for a washing machine,

:40:04.:40:08.

but if the alternative is to go to an expensive launderette on a weekly

:40:09.:40:11.

basis, then you can see why some people choose to make this decision

:40:12.:40:14.

even though it may be expensive overall. There are do need to be

:40:15.:40:21.

alternatives and our social enterprises selling at a fraction of

:40:22.:40:24.

the price and some of the rent-to-own sector but I think the

:40:25.:40:27.

customer needs protection. Like the payday lending sector, if years ago

:40:28.:40:33.

was a real scandal and there are still problems there. The fact that

:40:34.:40:37.

a cap has been applied as, according to Citizens Advice, reduced by 50%

:40:38.:40:42.

the number of people coming to them saying they have problems with

:40:43.:40:46.

payday lenders. I am not saying a price cap is a total panacea and it

:40:47.:40:51.

solves a problem but I just do not think that interest rates of 70%

:40:52.:40:58.

seem fair or right and I think the regulatory bills need to act. Other

:40:59.:41:03.

countries have caps on payday loans have many more people taking loans

:41:04.:41:06.

from very undesirable people. And if you fail to be you will get your

:41:07.:41:11.

kneecaps knocked out. We need to be careful about the statistics on that

:41:12.:41:13.

because the evidence from other countries is pretty clear. A lot of

:41:14.:41:18.

these companies are actually taking quite a risk when they sell those

:41:19.:41:21.

products, I had a look at the academic evidence on this and the

:41:22.:41:25.

skipping rope for payments on these type of purchases is about double

:41:26.:41:32.

the normal retail rate and the payments are uncertain, lots of

:41:33.:41:37.

people fail to pay on time. When you take into consideration that risk,

:41:38.:41:42.

there must be some sort of pay off. I'm not pretending these pundits are

:41:43.:41:45.

right for everybody but this idea that you can crudely cap the costs

:41:46.:41:48.

is a very naive way of dealing with this problem. Part of the reason

:41:49.:41:53.

people have trouble paying this bag is because they are selling to

:41:54.:41:56.

people who cannot afford it. It is worth pausing on this issue of

:41:57.:42:01.

disability because thanks to your programme, we discovered in the

:42:02.:42:05.

course of the investigation about people who are in the most

:42:06.:42:07.

honourable circumstances being sold to. And the FCA needs to look at

:42:08.:42:15.

practices, whether the countries are following the advice of the

:42:16.:42:17.

regulator but those guidelines also need tightening up. If they believe

:42:18.:42:22.

the customer is unable to understand the nature of the agreement the firm

:42:23.:42:24.

needs to make an assessment but whether it is appropriate to lend.

:42:25.:42:29.

You say that is not clear enough, that is clear? We have waded through

:42:30.:42:35.

the detailed guidance and I personally think Cabinet Secretary

:42:36.:42:38.

to me to be investigated for the way they sell to people with

:42:39.:42:41.

vulnerabilities but I think it might be necessary for the FCA to tighten

:42:42.:42:46.

up guidance further. I can read some comments from people watching. This

:42:47.:42:51.

e-mail, thank you for the peace presented by Ed Miliband, hopefully

:42:52.:42:55.

it will go some way to ending the expedition of the weaker and more

:42:56.:42:59.

vulnerable people amongst us. Louise says, I have said from a long time

:43:00.:43:03.

that rent-to-own companies should have something in place to protect

:43:04.:43:06.

the most vulnerable, especially those with mental health conditions.

:43:07.:43:10.

Mark Pfizer discussed in the amount of interest they charge. If the

:43:11.:43:15.

government help the poorest people, perhaps by providing government

:43:16.:43:18.

backed loans, it would do more to help the people that it is

:43:19.:43:24.

undermining. Jason, great to see investigating rent-to-own companies

:43:25.:43:26.

that are clearly taking advantage of some. David says I used to use it

:43:27.:43:31.

rent-to-own company and the pressure you into adding further goods and

:43:32.:43:35.

services with no thought for what you can afford. And Tony just

:43:36.:43:40.

watched a segment on BrightHouse, he did a really good job, new career?

:43:41.:43:45.

Speaking of new careers, Nigel Farage has stepped down of his party

:43:46.:43:48.

in the last 20 minutes or so. Any reaction? It was classic Nigel

:43:49.:43:55.

Farage. He says he was not a career politician and he stood for

:43:56.:44:00.

Parliament. I do not like the legacy that Nigel Farage leaves because I

:44:01.:44:06.

think it is a legacy, as we saw in the referendum campaign, of Stirling

:44:07.:44:11.

division, I thought the poster about breaking point was disgusting.

:44:12.:44:14.

Respect the decision that has been taken in this decision -- referendum

:44:15.:44:18.

but I am not sorry to see him leaving the political scene. He said

:44:19.:44:22.

the deeper the crisis in the Labour Party becomes, that is where Ukip's

:44:23.:44:27.

potential lies. That must be really alarming? He exposed the fact that

:44:28.:44:32.

he was willing to go in with the Tories, we always said that Ukip was

:44:33.:44:36.

a right-wing party. But it is attracting ex-Labour party voters?

:44:37.:44:41.

Better see what happens in the General Election. I think it is

:44:42.:44:45.

important for us as a party and for the people on the remain silent the

:44:46.:44:48.

argument to be clear that we accept this result and we will negotiate in

:44:49.:44:53.

good faith for a future outside the European Union. I do not want this

:44:54.:45:02.

referendum. There were deeper issues even than those around immigration

:45:03.:45:04.

that have been exposed by it. But it is important that we respect the

:45:05.:45:08.

result and I think it is important that we are clear about that. I

:45:09.:45:12.

sympathise with the people who have gone onto the streets and petitions

:45:13.:45:16.

around the referendum but I say to them, imagine if it was 22-48 to

:45:17.:45:22.

remain and we had believe people on the streets, with say, we have had

:45:23.:45:27.

this. You do not agree with Tony Blair who said let us keep the

:45:28.:45:30.

options open? I have a slightly different view, it is important we

:45:31.:45:36.

show that we respect the result. Last week you call for Jeremy Corbyn

:45:37.:45:39.

to stand down along with other Labour MPs. Despite that he is still

:45:40.:45:43.

there. Are you resigned to him saying?

:45:44.:45:49.

Lets see what happens. People keep saying that but he is the leader. I

:45:50.:45:59.

felt we have a system where you are elected by the supporters. Some of

:46:00.:46:04.

the smoke signals in the last couple of days have suggested that talks of

:46:05.:46:10.

negotiations have happened... A mediation with unions in the middle?

:46:11.:46:15.

I'm not sure who the mediators would be. Unenviable job. Is that feasible

:46:16.:46:21.

to you? Is that realistic? It would be much better if there was a way

:46:22.:46:26.

Jeremy could transition out of his role, and we could have new

:46:27.:46:32.

leadership. I think it would be much better than the party engaging in

:46:33.:46:36.

some kind of civil war. Let's see where we get to. Let me dig

:46:37.:46:42.

deeper... You mean after the Chilcott enquiry this week? Might

:46:43.:46:48.

there be a way for him to go after he has criticised Tony Blair, or

:46:49.:46:53.

called for him to be tried in... I think Jeremy has changed. In some

:46:54.:46:59.

respects in a positive way on our stances. I understand why he wants

:47:00.:47:04.

the legacy to be carried forward. The question to the party, the

:47:05.:47:08.

question I wanted answered last week is who can take us forward in a

:47:09.:47:12.

united way against a new Tory leader into the general elections. We don't

:47:13.:47:18.

know when it will be. I think that requires new leadership, as I said

:47:19.:47:22.

last week. Do you regret changing the rules, meaning people could sign

:47:23.:47:27.

up for ?3? I don't. I think a political party needs as many people

:47:28.:47:31.

as possible supporting it. Why don't you respect the mandate of those

:47:32.:47:35.

people who voted? Because it has always been the case, even when we

:47:36.:47:39.

introduced new rules, you are elected by a party but you need to

:47:40.:47:43.

command the confidence of the Parliamentary party. If one fifth of

:47:44.:47:46.

the party do not support you and trigger a new election there will be

:47:47.:47:50.

on the ballot. 75% expressed no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. Does he

:47:51.:47:56.

need 51 MPs to put him on a ballot paper if there is a leadership

:47:57.:48:00.

contest? I don't know. That is a matter to be sorted out by the

:48:01.:48:05.

National executive. It is written down in the Labour Party rule

:48:06.:48:09.

somewhere? As I said, a matter for the national executive. Let me ask

:48:10.:48:14.

you about Theresa May, the Home Secretary, who wants to be the next

:48:15.:48:19.

Prime Minister. She said that for her the status of millions of EU

:48:20.:48:22.

citizens already here in Britain, and British citizens living in EU

:48:23.:48:26.

countries, it will be part of the Brexit negotiations. What do you

:48:27.:48:31.

think of that? I don't agree with her. I don't agree with her on

:48:32.:48:34.

principle because I think people came here with legitimate

:48:35.:48:37.

expectations they would be allowed to work here. You have British

:48:38.:48:41.

citizens living abroad. I don't agree with her in principle, but

:48:42.:48:45.

think about the work ability of this. Are we really saying we will

:48:46.:48:51.

start deporting people from EU countries, and repatriating people

:48:52.:48:53.

who were living and working in other EU countries? If it isn't workable

:48:54.:48:57.

and it isn't right in principle how can it be a negotiating chip, a

:48:58.:49:01.

bargaining chip, in these negotiations? I think she's wrong. I

:49:02.:49:07.

think she should reverse her position. It is so unfair to those

:49:08.:49:11.

people who are working throughout our country and public services and

:49:12.:49:15.

elsewhere. What message are we sending to them about their role in

:49:16.:49:20.

our country? What message do you think? A terrible message that they

:49:21.:49:24.

are somehow not welcome many more. And we see these reprehensible

:49:25.:49:28.

racist attacks in our country, which I think I'm appalled so many people.

:49:29.:49:31.

But we need to send a clear message to them that they are welcome. That

:49:32.:49:35.

we have rules in place. And that we will respect those rules. Why do you

:49:36.:49:40.

think Britain voted to leave? Deep reasons. It goes much deeper than

:49:41.:49:46.

racism. Fundamentally a lot of people, including my constituency,

:49:47.:49:50.

feel failed by politics, failed by our economy, it was not working for

:49:51.:49:55.

them. A project fear campaign that said, think about how much you have

:49:56.:50:00.

Toulouse from voting out, they did not feel they had much to lose,

:50:01.:50:05.

because they felt happy with the way -- because they felt unhappy with

:50:06.:50:08.

the way the country had been treating them. -- you have to lose.

:50:09.:50:14.

We understand people feel disenfranchised socially and

:50:15.:50:18.

economically. And we have to sort out the immigration issue. But there

:50:19.:50:21.

are deeper problems round housing, jobs, wages, things people see in

:50:22.:50:25.

their own lives. Thank you for coming on the programme. If you want

:50:26.:50:31.

to share and his -- if you would like to see his film, you can find

:50:32.:50:33.

it on the website. And as we've said -

:50:34.:50:36.

BrighHouse say that Rent-to-own is a very different proposition

:50:37.:50:38.

to other forms of retail and that they undertake extensive

:50:39.:50:40.

affordability assessments before lending and seek to support

:50:41.:50:42.

all those customers who find This morning to map a senior

:50:43.:50:54.

Conservatives exclusively declare this programme who they are

:50:55.:50:57.

supporting in the race to become the next leader of the Tory party. Let's

:50:58.:51:04.

talk now to Liz Truss, the Environment Secretary, and was

:51:05.:51:07.

supporting Boris Johnson. And Baroness Warsi, he is the former

:51:08.:51:12.

party chairman. Thank you. Baroness Warsi, who will you be supporting?

:51:13.:51:22.

Theresa May. Why? Because I think we have a number of years ahead of us

:51:23.:51:26.

which will be serious and difficult for the country. We need a Prime

:51:27.:51:30.

Minister who is going to be a substantial figure, somebody with

:51:31.:51:33.

lots of experience, and a serious politician for serious times. Liz

:51:34.:51:38.

Truss, who are you supporting? Theresa May. Why? We are in a

:51:39.:51:46.

difficult situation as a country. The British people have spoken. I am

:51:47.:51:49.

clear we must listen to people. Brexit must be Brexit. What we now

:51:50.:51:56.

need is a leader to have the seriousness and the stability to get

:51:57.:51:59.

the deal done, but also make sure that our country does well both

:52:00.:52:02.

economically and socially in the future. We will delve a little bit

:52:03.:52:07.

deeper in a second. This support will Theresa May means that she has

:52:08.:52:11.

the backing of well over 100 Conservative MPs pushing her way

:52:12.:52:15.

ahead of other candidates. She insists she won the contest, not a

:52:16.:52:20.

coronation. I'm also joined by John Redwood who was supporting Andrea

:52:21.:52:23.

Leadsom and Eddie Bazeley who is supporting Michael Gove. -- Ed

:52:24.:52:33.

Vaizey. How on earth do you trust Michael Gove? I have worked with him

:52:34.:52:37.

for many years. He has been at the centre of this government for many

:52:38.:52:42.

years. He has been one of the people who has moved the Conservative Party

:52:43.:52:46.

into centre ground. You have heard what he said in his speech when he

:52:47.:52:50.

announced his leadership. It was a wide-ranging speech covering lots of

:52:51.:52:52.

issues. This is not just about Brexit. We have to talk about what

:52:53.:52:58.

future we want our country and a lot of issues. What ever he says, and

:52:59.:53:02.

whatever you say as his friend for decades, Boris Johnson was also

:53:03.:53:06.

apparently his friend. He will forever be seen as a pretty

:53:07.:53:10.

shameless betrayal of friends. He made the right choice. It would have

:53:11.:53:14.

been a betrayal had he swallowed it all up. Simply put Boris Johnson

:53:15.:53:17.

forward as the candidate for Prime Minister. Boris Johnson wasn't under

:53:18.:53:23.

anybody's orders to stand down. He could have stood. He could have had

:53:24.:53:27.

his contest and put himself forward. What you think of his former

:53:28.:53:30.

campaign manager saying Michael Gove is a gossip fond of a drink and

:53:31.:53:35.

would be a security risk? -- what do you think. He has worked incredibly

:53:36.:53:42.

hard and education. What about this? It does not ring true. You cannot

:53:43.:53:47.

sit at centre of government and then be criticised like that. There is

:53:48.:53:51.

much anger in Brussels at the Brexit vote. Surely need is there would be

:53:52.:53:56.

much more inclined to give a remain, a Conservative Prime Minister, who

:53:57.:54:00.

voted for remain, a good deal rather than somebody who has led Britain

:54:01.:54:06.

out of the UK like somebody you are supporting, Andrea Leadsom? We saw

:54:07.:54:09.

what happened when David Cameron tried to do his best. He got nothing

:54:10.:54:14.

from them. Should they be hostile to her? She is the most experienced of

:54:15.:54:20.

the five candidates when it comes to understanding Brussels. She chaired

:54:21.:54:23.

the important study in the last parliament. All of the details about

:54:24.:54:26.

where our relationship does not work. She is up to speed on the

:54:27.:54:31.

detail. Experienced businesswoman and minister. She would be a tough

:54:32.:54:34.

and experienced negotiator for Britain. I have served in 21

:54:35.:54:42.

positions. I always found that because they felt I did not want to

:54:43.:54:48.

deal and much of what they agreed on was disagreeable, it was much more

:54:49.:54:51.

important to get the UK's Bottom Line in that position than if you

:54:52.:54:55.

were a collaborator. Did you say she was much more experienced? One

:54:56.:55:00.

European matters. She has been a middle ranking minister. She is an

:55:01.:55:03.

important minister in the energy Department. I was clearer what I

:55:04.:55:08.

said. On the European issues she has studied them all and all of the

:55:09.:55:10.

other ministers in the competition haven't. But it is much more than

:55:11.:55:14.

Brexit when you want to be Prime Minister. Mr Blair and Mr Cameron

:55:15.:55:18.

had no ministerial experience and they became Prime Minister 's.

:55:19.:55:25.

Andrea Leadsom has been a minister, she understands the white always,

:55:26.:55:28.

but crucially she understands how Brussels works and what all of the

:55:29.:55:33.

laws are we have to deal with. -- Prime Minister. She is keen on

:55:34.:55:36.

getting our borders back, getting our money back, cutting VAT on fuel,

:55:37.:55:40.

all of the things we promised in the campaign in a way people can trust.

:55:41.:55:45.

Why is the hesitation about publishing her taxes? They visit,

:55:46.:55:48.

she intends to do so. If she ends up being in the final two? Yes, and

:55:49.:55:53.

what is wrong with that? All MDs don't have to publish them. You know

:55:54.:56:02.

what we earn. -- MPs. She has the backing of the Ukip donor Aaron

:56:03.:56:07.

Banks. Nigel Farage has resigned. Would she want Nigel Farage in her

:56:08.:56:11.

Brexit negotiating team? She will form the best possible team for

:56:12.:56:15.

Britain once she becomes Prime Minister, assuming she wins. I am

:56:16.:56:18.

not going to advise her on that kind of thing. I think it is a red

:56:19.:56:23.

herring by the BBC. There lots of really decent people, 70 million

:56:24.:56:27.

people, who voted for Brexit. Bring us together don't keep to find

:56:28.:56:32.

divisions. There is a huge amount of talent on the Brexit side of the

:56:33.:56:35.

argument and we need to use that talent to get a really good deal for

:56:36.:56:38.

the UK. One of the reasons this country voted to leave the EU is

:56:39.:56:43.

they felt net migration wasn't under control. Theresa May has presided

:56:44.:56:46.

over that. Surely that is a problem for her? People were very clear in

:56:47.:56:52.

the referendum that they wanted to leave. But it is a problem that

:56:53.:56:56.

reason my presided over net migration levels. I completely agree

:56:57.:57:00.

that freedom of movement was one of the major reasons people voted to

:57:01.:57:04.

leave. And you are backing her? That is why Theresa May is committed to

:57:05.:57:17.

this. This must be negotiated as the key part of our Brexit. Will she

:57:18.:57:21.

moved quickly to protect us now? Everybody here and now is welcome

:57:22.:57:24.

but we need immediate protection so it doesn't become a problem. What

:57:25.:57:28.

she will do is work of the negotiating position and then get on

:57:29.:57:31.

with leaving the EU. That is what the British people have voted for. I

:57:32.:57:43.

am feeling outnumbered. Michael Gove has made it clear that EU citizens

:57:44.:57:48.

are welcome here. People who are living here are welcome to stay,

:57:49.:57:51.

let's make that clear. What is important is that we are not

:57:52.:57:57.

electing a leader on position, we are electing somebody who has to go

:57:58.:58:00.

straight into the negotiations. It is important we have somebody who is

:58:01.:58:05.

serious, credible, who has had years... Why does she not guarantee

:58:06.:58:10.

the status of EU citizens living in the UK now? She is for the

:58:11.:58:12.

foreseeable future whilst we are still members of the EU. But we

:58:13.:58:16.

cannot guarantee that long-term position until those negotiations

:58:17.:58:21.

take place. It would be responsible... They need

:58:22.:58:26.

protecting... You can carry on talking, but we must go. Thank you

:58:27.:58:28.

all of you.

:58:29.:58:33.

Former Labour leader Ed Miliband investigates the rent-to-buy market.

Conservatives debate who should be their next leader.

And can Wales overcome the odds to reach the Euro 2016 final?