Browse content similar to 04/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire. | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
Our top story today is more fallout from the EU referendum | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
- a close friend of Boris Johnson attacks Tory leadership | :00:16. | :00:17. | |
contender Michael Gove, saying he's unfit | :00:18. | :00:19. | |
And that's not all, is it, Norman Smith? | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
Tensions erupting in the Tory ranks as Theresa May's backers say she | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
will not guarantee EU migrants living in the UK the right to stay | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
here while Angela Eagle from the Labour Party says of Jeremy Corbyn | :00:38. | :00:38. | |
does not quit, she will stand. And after 10.30am this morning | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
a Cabinet minister and former Cabinet minister will exclusively | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
tell this programme who they're backing in the race to be | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
the next Prime Minister. Plus we'll hear from religious | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
leaders who're issuing a plea for unity following divisions we've | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
seen after the leave vote. Plus an exclusive report | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
from Ed Miliband, the former leader He's been investigating rent-to-own | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
companies for this programme. They should be a cap on the total | :01:01. | :01:14. | |
costs that rent-to-own companies can charge, be done with payday lenders | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
and it is worth it. That exclusive report | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
coming up shortly - And, as always, we're keen | :01:21. | :01:22. | |
to hear your experiences And as Wales fans tried to get | :01:23. | :01:34. | |
tickets to the semifinal after that magnificent performance against | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
Belgium and the rest of us try to find out if we have some well | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
shimmers, we will explore the psychology of the underdog side who | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
have done so brilliant. If you work hard enough and are not afraid to | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
dream and not afraid to fail... Welcome to the programme, | :01:47. | :01:56. | |
we're live until 11am. Throughout the programme we'll bring | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
you the latest breaking news We're expecting UKIP leader | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
Nigel Farage to give a speech setting out UKIP's role | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
in a post-Brexit Britain after 10am this morning - | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
we'll bring you some of it live. As always, we're really keen | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
for you to get in touch on all the stories we're talking | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
about this morning. Particularly if you want | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
to share your own experience of rent-to-own companies | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
- use #VictoriaLive. And if you text, you will be charged | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
at the standard network rate. George Osborne has pledged to slash | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
the amount of tax businesses pay in order to encourage | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
investment in the wake In a newspaper interview, | :02:39. | :02:40. | |
the Chancellor said cutting corporation tax was one of his five | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
priorities to show the UK Britain may have voted to leave | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
the EU, but the country is very much That is the message | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
the Chancellor wants to send to companies | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
that might now be having doubts | :03:01. | :03:02. | |
about investing in the UK George Osborne has told | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
the Financial Times he plans That is the rate at which companies | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
pay tax on their profits. It would drop from the current | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
20% to below 15%. That would make it the lowest | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
corporation tax rate Compare that, for example, | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
with 39% in the USA, It would even take it close | :03:23. | :03:30. | |
to the competitive 12.5% That is very different | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
from what Mr Osborne was suggesting There'll be a hole | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
in public finances. You've got Chancellors from two | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
different political parties saying that taxes will have to go up, | :03:47. | :03:48. | |
spending will have to be cut. That is the reality | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
of quitting the EU. That talk of imposing ?30 billion | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
in tax rises and spending cuts has now gone, replaced by an attempt | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
to woo business and keep Boris Johnson has accused | :03:59. | :04:00. | |
the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be | :04:01. | :04:12. | |
made to work in the UK's interests. In a column in The Daily Telegraph, | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
the former Leave campaigner says "hysteria" is sweeping parts | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
of the population who wanted He argues that they need | :04:21. | :04:22. | |
more reassurance. Our political Guru Norman Smith | :04:23. | :04:35. | |
is in Westminster. The Tory infighting continues. That | :04:36. | :04:44. | |
is a mild way of putting it! I have never seen anything like this, this | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
is fear and loathing on stilts. This morning we get a Boris Johnson | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
backlash, he wading into David Cameron for, in his view, not doing | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
enough to reassure people over Brexit saying they are encountering | :05:01. | :05:02. | |
the sort of atmosphere we saw in the aftermath of the death of Lady Diana | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
even more, his campaign manager, the person who was meant to be running | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
his leadership campaign, Ben Wallace, has launched an | :05:15. | :05:16. | |
extraordinary attack on Michael Gove, saying, in effect, Michael | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
Gove is a gossip, he's fond of a drink and he cannot be trusted. You | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
would not want to entrust him with the secrets of the nation. Utterly | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
extraordinary. At the same time as this blood over the stage, we have | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
serious divisions merging between the rival candidates, particularly | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
over that fraught issue of immigration. What has emerged is a | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
Theresa May, the frontrunner, is in the market to do some sort of deal | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
over freedom of movement which those who favoured Brexit, they thought we | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
had to stop this and Theresa May thinks we have to do a deal on this | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
so that companies can still get access to the single market and the | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
biggest bust up will emerge after one of her supporters, Philip | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
Hammond, suggested that it would be absurd to guarantee that EU migrants | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
currently living and working in the UK should definitely be allowed to | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
stay. He is putting up big question over whether EU migrants working | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
here, doctors, nurses, care workers, whether they will automatically have | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
the right to stay. That will provoke huge controversy. Already Michael | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Gove's team say we will guarantee that and Yvette Cooper has written | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
to the Prime Minister demanding he issues a statement on this | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
guaranteeing the rights of EU migrants, saying this is a hugely | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
inflammatory intervention. We will talk to the former Labour leader Ed | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
Miliband about that because he has a point of view on whether EU citizens | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
should be guaranteed that right. I also want to ask about the current | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
Labour leader. The current Chancellor, remember him? The big | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
announcement from George Osborne, it is a tiny reminder that there is | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
some governing still going on despite the Conservative infighting? | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
That is interesting because you sense the Chancellor house to rip up | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
his game plan post election. You will remember that after the Tory | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
election victory, we were told that the aim was to get the books | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
balanced by the end of the Parliament, that has been torn up | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
and put in the den and be not find that corporation tax will have to be | :07:31. | :07:39. | |
racks dine to 15%. That is a massive cut the Chancellor feels that is | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
necessary to try to give businesses some sort of confidence and sense | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
that Britain is still a place where they should invest and do business. | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
Amid mounting concerns that many investors are thinking they will not | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
do anything because we have no idea what is going to happen in Britain | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
in terms of whether it will get access to the single market. It | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
underlines the really deep unease over what is going to happen to the | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
economy. And in terms of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn is still leader | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
and his former shadow business Minister, Angela Eagle, says she | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
will still stand against him but not yet? We are in this weird Mexican | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
stand-off, they are like gunslingers ready to go. There is the suggestion | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
this morning that the unions could intervene as try to broker some sort | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
of peace deal. They would go off to the bar and live happily ever after. | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
I cannot see that happening because Angela Eagle this morning was pretty | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
clear that if Jeremy Corbyn does not walk away, she will stand. Listen... | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
He is not properly engaged with even the Deputy Leader of the party, who | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
was elected with a mandate. It is time that he did so. How many | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
people? MPs and party members, are asking me to resolve this. And I | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
will have something is not done soon. Are you still prepared to run | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
against him? I have the support to run and resolve this and I will do | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
so if Jeremy does not take action soon. That is all I have to say. | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
Talking to the critics of Mr Corbyn, what are you doing? Willie Rennie | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
stand? They seem to want to wait until the Chilcott report is | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
published on Wednesday because that is a huge moment but after that, the | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
game is on. Showdown still looming in the ranks of the Labour Party. | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
Thank you very much. And we will talk to Ed Miliband about the | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
fallout from the EU vote and the current state of the Labour Party | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
and about rent-to-own companies. His exclusive film is coming up. | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
A legal challenge has been brought to ensure the government follows | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
lawful procedure when leaving the European Union. | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
A group of academics and business people is trying to force | :10:03. | :10:04. | |
the government to pass an Act of Parliament before it | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
They want assurances that Britain will not use executive powers | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
to start the process of leaving the EU. | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
The Iraqi government has declared three days of national | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
mourning after the weekend's deadly bomb attack. | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
Officials say 106 65 people were killed and more than 200 injured | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
after a lorry packed with excuses was blown up in a busy shopping | :10:38. | :10:39. | |
area. The so-called Islamic State says it | :10:40. | :10:40. | |
carried out the attack. Our Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
reports from Baghdad. The bombs and the fires | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
consumed so many lives. It is supposed to be | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
a sacred and festive season, the last few days of | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
the holy month of Ramadan. This was the so-called | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
Islamic State's latest gift He says that Iraqis are like sheep | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
among wolves, everyone is coming We don't, we don't have any | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
security, any real security in Iraq. Yes, we have a lot of police, | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
we have a lot of army, Islamic State, Sunni extremists, | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
said they were targeting Shia A main reason why IS attacked | :11:19. | :11:26. | |
was the defeat they have just It means they have lost | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
a stronghold less than an hour's All the destruction and killing add | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
up to a clear message from the jihadists of | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
so-called Islamic State. That they may be defeated | :11:46. | :11:46. | |
on the battlefield, but they are still able to hit back | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
where it hurts most, by killing civilians in the heart | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
of this capital city, The Former Labour Leader Ed Miliband | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
has carried out an investigation for this programme into rent-to-own | :11:57. | :12:08. | |
companies, which allow shoppers to pay for items like TVs, | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
fridges and washing machines In many cases, Mr Miliband found | :12:13. | :12:14. | |
consumers can end up paying up to three times more for the product | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
than the original price. He also found some companies | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
are selling these goods to vulnerable people with learning | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
difficulties who may not understand Brighthouse, the biggest company, | :12:28. | :12:38. | |
says rent-to-own is a different proposition to other forms of retail | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
and they undertake extensive affordability assessments before | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
lending. We will have more on that investigation throughout the | :12:47. | :12:46. | |
programme. The father of a British boy killed | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
by an alligator at Disney World in Florida last month, | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
has said that two alligators Matt Graves, whose son, Lane, | :12:55. | :12:56. | |
was seized by an alligator while he was paddling in shallow | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
water, said he was attacked by the second animal as he tried | :13:01. | :13:02. | |
to save his son. Five alligators were killed | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
on the day after the attack Most unpaid carers are still not | :13:06. | :13:07. | |
receiving the support they are entitled to, | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
a year after new rules came into force to improve | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
their health and wellbeing. That's according to research | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
from The Carers Trust. Since last April, councils have | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
been required to provide assessments and support | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
to protect carers' wellbeing. But a review by the former | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
Care Minister Paul Burstow found 65% He says government, councils | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
and the NHS must do more I'm very frustrated that after the | :13:30. | :13:44. | |
first 12 months, it would appear that councils are not following the | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
letter of the law and they're offering a one-off payment in many | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
cases which is fobbing off carers. And they are certainly not doing | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
enough to raise the awareness of carers that this is something they | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
have as a right and they should be taking advantage of it because in | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
the end, carers are saving councils are forging. -- a fortune. | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
A Nasa spacecraft is about to arrive at the largest planet | :14:10. | :14:11. | |
in the solar system - Jupiter. | :14:12. | :14:13. | |
The probe was launched in 2011 and has travelled | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
Entering into orbit will be fraught with dangers, | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
but if the spacecraft succeeds, it will give us our best | :14:19. | :14:20. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am. | :14:21. | :14:28. | |
The normally bring new sport right now but there has been a mix-up with | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
the rudder. We are looking for a sports presenter! We will talk about | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
Wales with some real Welsh people and people who are hoping to find | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
some Welsh somewhere in their heritage! First... | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
First this morning, an exclusive report by the former | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Labour leader Ed Miliband, who investigates the rent-to-own | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
Rent-to-own companies allow shoppers to pay for items like TVs, | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
games consoles, fridges and washing machines in weekly instalments, | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
But consumers can end up paying up to three times more for the product | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
and we've discovered that some companies are selling these goods | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
to vulnerable people with mental health problems and learning | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
difficulties leading to concerns that they may not understand | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
The Citizens Advice Bureau tells us it receives thousands of complaints | :15:19. | :15:26. | |
a month about the sector and the regulator must do more | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
In this exclusive report, Ed Miliband tells us he wants | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
rent-to-own companies to be regulated like payday loan firms, | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
which since 2015 have had to cap the interest, | :15:37. | :15:38. | |
The former Labour leader has campaigned against rent-to-own | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
firms, and he's tried to persuade people to use credit unions instead. | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
against and he's tried to persuade people to use | :15:50. | :15:51. | |
The biggest company in the rent-to-own sector | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
We asked them to take part in our report - | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
With so much choice on the High Street, we are told | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
But around five million people in the UK can't get credit. | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
Lots of people can't borrow money to buy household goods like a TV | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
or cooker and I'm seeing more and more people turning | :16:20. | :16:21. | |
to rent-to-own shops like Perfect Home or BrightHouse, | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
People can get a TV on the spot and pay for it by weekly | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
instalments, but it can be incredibly expensive. | :16:33. | :16:34. | |
My constituents have told me they can end up paying | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
If they miss a payment or are late, the costs spiral, or worse | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
they lose their TV along with their money. | :16:43. | :16:51. | |
As leader of the Labour Party and now as a backbench MP, | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
I've talked about the need for firms to do right by their | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
BrightHouse have 300 stores across the country, often | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
One of them is in Doncaster, in my constituency, | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
and I want to find out what kind of service | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
I'm concerned that BrightHouse are taking advantage of people | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
on benefits and working on low incomes. | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
And in the course of our investigation I have been | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
that BrightHouse are selling to people with mental health | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
He suffers with mental health problems, severe mental | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
Craig is 38, and has autism and cerebral palsy. | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
His mum Betty says her son didn't understand the BrightHouse contract. | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
He'll pay but then he has got nothing for himself for food, | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
Just tell us a bit about what experience | :17:49. | :17:59. | |
Craig apparently had been in and bought this | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
I kept seeing it in the house and I didn't really twig. | :18:04. | :18:14. | |
Then I said how much are you paying for that? | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
How many times have I said don't touch them with a barge pole? | :18:18. | :18:31. | |
Do you think it would have been obvious to the BrightHouse staff | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
that Craig had learning difficulties? | :18:35. | :18:35. | |
And what was the reaction of BrightHouse when you | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
complained in the shop and when you wrote to them? | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
Well, the man in the shop said we go through this thing to make sure | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
Although Betty believes BrightHouse should have realised her son | :18:51. | :19:01. | |
was vulnerable, she does say they stopped taking payments | :19:02. | :19:03. | |
from Craig's account as soon as she told them about his situation | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
BrightHouse dispute Betty's claims that it would have been obvious that | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
Craig had learning difficulties as a member of staff | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
judged Craig to be capable of making his own decisions and had | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
no reason to believe he wasn't aware of what he was doing. | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
The Financial Conduct Authority, the body that regulates | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
If companies have reason to believe that the customer has | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
a learning disability, they must take reasonable steps | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
to assist the customer to make an informed decision. | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
If they believe the customer isn't able to understand the nature | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
of the agreement then the firm is to make an assessment | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
of whether it is appropriate to lend. | :19:46. | :19:47. | |
But I don't think that is clear enough and the guidelines | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
Paul, not his real name, is another vulnerable adult. | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
He has learning difficulties and mental health problems. | :19:54. | :20:01. | |
You've told me that you have some mental health issues and issues | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
like epilepsy and you describe yourself as quite vulnerable. | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
Do you want to tell me what you are owing | :20:07. | :20:42. | |
to them and what goods you've got with them? | :20:43. | :20:44. | |
How have you ended up with that number of items, do you think? | :20:45. | :21:09. | |
I think I must have started paying off one. | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
When you go into the BrightHouse store, what have you said to them | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
about your own finances and what have they said to you? | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
This thing is a nice thing and I say, well, | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
it is but I have got other things to pay. | :21:25. | :21:26. | |
You can have what you want out of the stores. | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
Does the whole situation with BrightHouse cause you anxiety? | :21:30. | :21:31. | |
BrightHouse denies exploiting consumers in vulnerable | :21:32. | :21:39. | |
circumstances or selling items to people who cannot afford them | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
and says they have sufficient policies and procedures | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
in place to prevent these practices from happening. | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
I think it was a ?300 laptop. We have done. | :21:49. | :22:04. | |
When you bought it, was that clear to you that | :22:05. | :22:16. | |
It's all in the small print and stuff. | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
What kinds of things do you buy from them? | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
How long have you been a customer for? | :22:26. | :22:37. | |
If you can't pay, they will help you to sort out your difficulties. | :22:38. | :22:53. | |
The weekly payments at BrightHouse might seem cheap. | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
But add in compulsory 5-star service, including delivery | :22:58. | :23:10. | |
and installation at ?55, and Service Plus, repair | :23:11. | :23:12. | |
or replacement of your item, which costs ?136, on top of that | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
interest rates of 69.9% a year and payments spread over three | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
years, you end up paying a grand total of ?1,092. | :23:22. | :23:29. | |
This is the first item I got off BrightHouse. | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
It has got some screws under here that have come loose. | :23:34. | :23:35. | |
On here there should be another screw. | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
BrightHouse say they carry out affordability checks to make | :23:41. | :23:42. | |
sure people can keep up with the weekly repayments. | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
Angela Jackson says BrightHouse should carry out much more | :23:46. | :23:47. | |
She has a fridge freezer and a TV stand and has | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
And how much are you paying for this in total? | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
Basically if the kid chips it or anything like that. | :23:59. | :24:08. | |
So nobody went through your finances and said is it affordable? | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
They just said basically that I could. | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
They have to know what money I had got. | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
They didn't go through what I have to pay out, the bill | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
situation and the children or anything like that. | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
They just said, "Right, you can have such and such." | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
I can have anything I want out of the shop. | :24:32. | :24:33. | |
"Angela, if you introduce somebody, you could get this. | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
We will take money off your bill, ?50." | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
Get my bill down a little bit because it's high, | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
Because it's dear and people who haven't got the money | :24:44. | :24:52. | |
to just go and do it, they think they can | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
Just a little bit more expensive and it's there. | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
Well, she has ended up skinting herself. | :25:00. | :25:09. | |
She ended up without gas and electric. | :25:10. | :25:11. | |
Walk on by, that is what I would say. | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
When I walk in, I am literally a minute. | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
I just give them my money, my name and address and I go before | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
anyone comes and badgers me to see if I want anything. | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
I'm interested in what it looks like on the other side | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
Zoe left her sales job at BrightHouse after five years | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
From a personal point of view, you could obviously see that | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
somebody couldn't afford the items that they wanted. | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
But if the computer allowed them to add that on to their account, | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
Do you think it was clear to customers that in relation | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
to the service agreement, they knew what they were buying? | :26:00. | :26:07. | |
I think because of the information that's given to a new customer | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
joining BrightHouse, the amount that was read out to them, | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
I think it was too much and they didn't quite understand | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
So did you have experience of selling to people | :26:16. | :26:24. | |
who had been sold goods and then fell behind and couldn't | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
People will see something for a small amount each week | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
and that is the figure they will look at. | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
In reality the amount they are paying back and the length | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
of time it would take to pay it back was different. | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
People would say maybe that is only ?5 per week, I can afford that. | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
Before they know it they are paying ?100 per week, they are a single | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
parent with children and it is unaffordable. | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
Morally I felt as though it was wrong. | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
I had a few people who were behind on things and got themselves | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
And did you have experience of people having goods that were faulty | :27:04. | :27:11. | |
I have had experience of goods going away for repair | :27:12. | :27:19. | |
and coming back not repaired with the same faults | :27:20. | :27:21. | |
still or an extra fault or broken or damaged or even lost. | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
Some customers would have their items sent away | :27:26. | :27:26. | |
for repair and they would get lost and they would have | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
As part of their 5-star service, BrightHouse says it offers unlimited | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
repairs, loan products when required and replacements. | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
I wanted to speak to BrightHouse, but they declined to be interviewed. | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
So did the Consumer Credit Trade Association and the Finance | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
and Leasing Association, the industry bodies | :27:49. | :27:50. | |
But there are those that make the case that there is a gap | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
in the market and Perfect Home, BrightHouse and others provide | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
The fundamental question is whether or not we think these | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
people should be able to opt into a contract where they pay more | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
overall, but they have the appliances tomorrow, | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
or whether or not they shouldn't have these | :28:09. | :28:09. | |
It's an injustice to tell people that because they are poor | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
they can't have things that in 2016 we would consider necessities. | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
Some of these companies are making very big profits at the expense | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
They're making huge profits because they are taking | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
We see this with credit card companies as well. | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
They're making marginal profits because they are loaning out | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
to people with average credit scores. | :28:33. | :28:33. | |
These rent-to-own companies are often taking on people | :28:34. | :28:35. | |
They don't always know if they are going to get their payments. | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
They are taking on a lot of risk there. | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
They're getting these profits because they have to ensure down | :28:43. | :28:44. | |
the line that they are going to get some kind of return. | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
But in the meantime people who wouldn't have these goods | :28:48. | :28:49. | |
are getting them to their homes next day delivery. | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
The regulator, the Financial Conduct Authority, says companies must | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
provide clear information to their customers and ensure fairness. | :29:00. | :29:09. | |
I don't believe that's happening for many people | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
And Citizens Advice agree that there are real problems | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
They would like the regulator, the FCA, to do more to make sure | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
We're not suggesting that the whole market should be taken off the face | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
We do see people in vulnerable situations pushed into further | :29:24. | :29:32. | |
difficulties, financial difficulty, and then of course emotional stress | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
and worry due to the nature of the debt that they have taken on. | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
People who are disabled or with health conditions, | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
and of course people with mental health conditions as well. | :29:47. | :29:48. | |
Too often we think that the hire purchase firms offer them very | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
little in terms of protection, don't do decent enough | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
affordability checks, and therefore they get themselves | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
From what I have seen, too often rent-to-own companies | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
are taking advantage of people who have nowhere else to go. | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
The regulator needs to stop the most vulnerable in our society | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
Rent-to-own companies should stop selling goods to people who just | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
And I think there should be a cap on the total cost that rent-to-own | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
We have done it with the payday lenders like Wonga | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
As you'd expect, we asked BrightHouse for an interview | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
today; they declined - and instead gave us this | :30:34. | :30:35. | |
statement which says, "We note that this feature | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
is presented by an avowed critic, who consistently | :30:39. | :30:40. | |
BrightHouse serves those lower-income families who are | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
Rent-to-own is a very different proposition | :30:46. | :31:10. | |
We'll talk to the former Labour leader in the next hour. | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
Thank you for getting in touch. David on Facebook says, we need | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
government to stay out of these areas, the free market will | :31:26. | :31:27. | |
determine the price and not politicians. Philip says, this is an | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
issue that needs to be looked at, well done. Alan on Facebook Daesh | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
why did Mr Miliband not do this when he had the chance to do so? Simon | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
says, Rent to Own is called free trade, improve education if people | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
cannot cope. Stephen says this is the first time I have looked at Ed | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
Miliband and thought, good man! As diverse as the treatment of | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
vulnerable people in the UK is a national disgrace and shames | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
Britain. I am fed up with the week being targeted. Douglas says on | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
e-mail, why are you not mentioning credit unions? Largely run by | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
volunteers, who provide a worthwhile service by offering affordable loans | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
as well as encouraging saving? And one other viewers says, Ed Miliband | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
has a new calling- you will next be presenting Watchdog! Please continue | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
to get in touch. You can contact us | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
in the normal ways. Still to come: Boris Johnson today | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
calls it "hysteria" - the state of the country amongst | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
some of the population With divisions across the country, | :32:34. | :32:35. | |
in families, in workplaces. We talk to three faith leaders | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
who are going to try and deliver some soothing words to bring | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
the country together again. And are you one of those desperately | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
trying to find a bit of Welsh in you ahead of Wales' semi-final | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
against Portugal in the Euros? We'll talk about how Wales overcame | :32:50. | :32:51. | |
Belgium on Friday night and talk Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
with a summary of today's news. George Osborne has pledged to slash | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
the amount of tax businesses pay in order to encourage investment | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
in the wake of the EU In a newspaper interview, | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
the Chancellor said cutting corporation tax was one of his five | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
priorities to show the UK He also pledged to maintain | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
the so-called Northern Powerhouse investment project despite | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
the Brexit vote. Boris Johnson has accused | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be | :33:29. | :33:30. | |
made to work in the UK's interests. In a column in The Daily Telegraph, | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
the former Leave campaigner says "hysteria" is sweeping parts | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
of the population who wanted He argues that they need more | :33:39. | :33:40. | |
reassurance. The former Shadow Business | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
Secretary, Angela Eagle, has said she'll step in to resolve | :33:47. | :33:47. | |
the leadership crisis in the Labour Party if Jeremy Corbyn | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
doesn't step down soon. But, speaking to reporters | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
outside her house this morning, she accused Mr Corbyn of not | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
being "properly engaged" with the party's deputy | :34:01. | :34:02. | |
leader, Tom Watson. He is not properly engaged with even | :34:03. | :34:10. | |
the Deputy Leader of the party, How many people, MPs and party | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
members, are asking me And I will if something | :34:14. | :34:22. | |
is not done soon. Are you still prepared | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
to run against him? I have the support to run | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
and resolve this and I will do so if Jeremy does not | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
take action soon. The Iraqi government has declared | :34:37. | :34:49. | |
three days of mourning after a bomb in Baghdad killed at least 106 to | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
five people and wounded about 130. A lorry packed with excuses was | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
detonated in the capital of families were shopping for the holiday | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
marking the end of Ramadan. So-called Islamic State says it | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
carried out the attack. That is the latest news, back at ten o'clock. | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
And we shall also bring you the support them. This e-mail is to do | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
with BrightHouse, the firm at Ed Miliband was investigating, I have | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
been using BrightHouse through number of years and have always set | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
my own budgets and they have always been helpful and make sure you can | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
afford them. I personally find them good for me, my contracts are nearly | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
completed. My contracts make sense and my payments are nearly competed. | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
Peacekeepers coming in. -- please keep those. | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
After the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox a week before the referendum, | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
MPs from all sides called for a new type of politics - | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
one with less anger and heat, one which tolerates a little more | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
These are some of the comments we've seen from politicians on social | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
Last week Conservative MP Nadine Dorries struggled to fight | :36:00. | :36:11. | |
back her tears as Boris Johnson announced he was backing out | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
of the Tory leadership race after Michael Gove decided | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
to withdraw support from Mr Johnson and put himself forward. | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
She is obviously very angry with Michael Gove. She says... | :36:22. | :36:37. | |
Michael Gove is a Game of Thrones fan. | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
In this stinging attack on Twitter Ben Wallace MP, | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
Boris Johnson's former campaign manager, compared | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
the Justice Secretary to the character Theon Greyjoy, | :36:47. | :36:48. | |
who betrayed his adopted family for personal gain and | :36:49. | :36:50. | |
Threatening to castrate Michael Gove. And that is obviously what | :36:51. | :37:15. | |
people wanted to take from that. -- what he wanted people. | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
Ben Wallace has also written in the Telegraph this morning saying | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
Mr Gove is unfit to be PM - he'd be a security risk | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
because he has an "emotional need to gossip". | :37:25. | :37:25. | |
The Conservative MP for Rossendale and Darwen Jake Berry also took | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
to Twitter declaring that there is a deep pit in hell | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
MPs of other parties have also vented their frustrations | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
The Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron referred to the privileged | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
Oxford Bullingdon Club, infamous for its wealthy members | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
and trashing of restaurants, when he posted this about Boris | :37:47. | :37:48. | |
And the Labour MP for Rhondda, Chris Bryant, said Michael Gove's | :37:49. | :38:00. | |
pitch was the extraordinary bundle of Uriah-Heep-style self conceit | :38:01. | :38:02. | |
And another Labour MP, David Lammy, had his own observations | :38:03. | :38:12. | |
on the turmoil in the Tory Party: Two frivolous Etonians | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
tear the country apart in their own personality feud | :38:16. | :38:17. | |
Then the winner walks away within a week. | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
And it's not just MPs who're being vicious. | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
The referendum result has obviously led to some very happy Leave voters | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
It's also seen the UK divided on lines of geography, | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
Families rowing and an increase in racist and xenophobic abuse. | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
Over the last few days, you may have heard a lot | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
about a divided Britain, a disunited kingdom, following the | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
results of the referendum, which showed clear divisions over the | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
London versus the rest of England, Scotland versus England and | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
Establishment versus working classes. | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
A lot of people kicked against the establishment in this | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
They feel that we only look after ourselves and now look what we | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
We are not looking after the interests of the nation, we are | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
just looking after ourselves and what our next job will be. | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
That one question of whether to leave or remain in the EU | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
has also caused deep divisions within many families. | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
We are being respectful of each other's opinions | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
but I strongly feel the best thing for us | :39:20. | :39:21. | |
and the younger generation is | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
Do you respect your mum's vote to leave first of all? | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
Michael Gove, the Justice Secretary, is | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
throwing his hat into the ring to be Tory leader. | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
He had been expected to | :39:35. | :39:35. | |
back Boris Johnson, the former Mayor of London. | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
Now he says his fellow Leave campaigner isn't up to the job. | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
This is Michael Gove plunging a dagger into the back, front, side, | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
He is at war with his own MPs and it is a war he means to win. | :39:46. | :39:56. | |
More Shadow Cabinet ministers walked out than stayed | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
Some say this war could break Labour for good. | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
I feel I have served in the best way I can and | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
An 11-year-old boy who found a message of hate. | :40:08. | :40:16. | |
This is one of the cards that Mattias found | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
on his way to school on | :40:19. | :40:19. | |
Friday, just hours after the referendum result was declared. | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
Graffiti on the Polish cultural centre in London is another example | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
of the hate many Poles predicted the referendum would bring. | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
Our guest says she has been abused three times | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
There were guys yelling abuse at me to get out of | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
the country from the other side of the platform. | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
It was a packed platform and nobody said anything. | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
The senior politicians in the Leave campaign now, | :40:43. | :40:44. | |
what are they going to do to rein this in? | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
So that's the division and this morning religious leaders | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
are joining together on this programme to call for unity | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
and tolerance in the wake of the EU referendum result. | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
We can speak now to Rabbi Danny Rich, the Chief Executive | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
of Liberal Judaism, Imam Qari Muhammad Asim, | :41:04. | :41:05. | |
who joins us from Leeds, and Dr Graham Tomlin, | :41:06. | :41:07. | |
who's the Bishop of Kensington in London. | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
I want to ask all of you individually, how do you assess the | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
level of division in the UK right now? There certainly is division, I | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
would use the language of uncertainty, there is a great eve of | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
uncertainty as to what the future will be like for lots of people. | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
Wondering what our future coming out of the European Union will be like | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
and for people who have come here from overseas, wondering if there is | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
still a place where they still feel welcome? Can they still make a home | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
here? There is division and uncertainty and a lot of fear. Rabbi | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
Rich, how do you assess this? There has always been division and the | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
referendum has allowed people to say things that had become unspeakable | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
and we are hearing reports across the country of people being abused | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
in the streets because they look different or appear to be European, | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
despite the fact they may be British, and comments like go back | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
home and we are out to get you, never mind the more extreme acts. It | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
is quite worrying and it is the task of legislators, because nobody else | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
seems to be able to do it, to bring the community together and remember | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
what we have in common and the values we need to share. How would | :42:29. | :42:36. | |
you assess the levels of division? I think that the post-Brexit vote has | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
given you find confidence to far right extremists who have always | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
held these years and what is different this time is up in the | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
past might have been attacks on particular community whereas if you | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
look different now, if you speak a different language or have a | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
different accent, you could potentially be under attack and that | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
is what is happening around the country. There was also division | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
within families and within churches, synagogues and mosques, workplaces, | :43:06. | :43:13. | |
schools, isn't there? There is. You can draw a line through all sorts of | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
communities. In my part of West London there is quite a bit of | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
division around this issue and it seems to me that this is precisely | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
the time when we need to come together to say that we are one | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
country, a country that has always been very welcoming to all sorts of | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
people from around the world, one of the wealthier and more stable | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
countries. That is our vocation to do that but we cannot get too hung | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
up about division, we must think about how to rebuild the sense of | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
unity and the sense that this country is a welcoming place to | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
live. Rabbi Rich, to pick up on that, there are many things we have | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
in common, despite the fact that we might have differences over how | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
people voted in this referendum vote? Yes, we have the thing, what | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
are our values? They will have to be protected. Even though some people | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
might attempt to punish people who they think voted the wrong way, that | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
is not how a value led society works, it works on protecting the | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
vulnerable and making people welcome, whether you are here or | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
might come here and reflecting on our national and international | :44:27. | :44:28. | |
responsible it is. We will not heal with the problem of millions of | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
people moving and becoming refugees of the global climate challenge, if | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
that is what needs to be dealt with, on our own. I think that patriotism | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
is laudable, selfish nationalism is not so notable. Who is responsible | :44:44. | :44:55. | |
for these divisions? Unfortunately, the language, rhetoric and | :44:56. | :44:57. | |
underpinning material used by parts of the Leave campaign has given new | :44:58. | :45:04. | |
found confidence to far right extremists and helps to legitimise | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
some of their concerns that they might have expressed in close | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
quarters before. Whatever happens, we are trying to rebuild Britain and | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
that should be built on the basis of tolerance and the values that we | :45:19. | :45:20. | |
always share together in this country. And initiatives like more | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
in common, there needs to be political stability, which is | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
lacking, and also civil society needs to come forward and say, | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
enough is enough. We need to move on. To rebuild Britain. That should | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
not be Do you acknowledge there was | :45:38. | :45:48. | |
intolerance shown to people who voted to Leave. Some have been | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
called racist when they are not. People have voted to leave for a | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
variety of reasons and not every single person who voted to leave is | :45:57. | :46:03. | |
a racist or bigoted, but the dominant campaign has, was | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
intolerant towards minority communities, intolerant towards | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
Muslims, intolerant towards migrants and all of that has given new-found | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
confidence to people who have always held these views against minorities. | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
I have not really seen anything from the pro-leave campaign which is | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
robust enough to actually calm the divisions down in our country. | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
Right. So therefore, you feel it falls to Faith Leaders. Is your | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
voice heard? Is your voice, do people listen to you? I think what's | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
really important is what's happening at grass-roots. One of my churches | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
in my area which is near the Polish centre which had graffiti plastered | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
over it. They got a card and the congregation to sign the card and | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
they will be delivering that today as a gesture of solidarity to Polish | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
people in that part of London. I was in a school last week, a church | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
school in my area which is around 83% non-white, but is a remarkable | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
example of racial harmony and really of very good achieving school. So it | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
seems to me, it is partly us saying that, if you like, as religious | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
leaders, but it is on the roots, encouraging people to reach out to | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
their neighbours and make the effort to go across the road and say, "We | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
value your presence here." Which is what churches and synagogues and | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
mosques are doing elsewhere in the country. Do you believe we still do | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
have a well of sievity in this country or just perhaps miss placed | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
it? Undoubtedly. Many of the persons who claim to be fearful of | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
immigrants don't have many of them in the area. And what's very | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
interesting is that, it is our task on a local level to make people | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
people feel they are not abandoned, whether they be from other | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
minorities, other European countries, we are trying to reassure | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
some of our European members that they're not unwelcomed. We just had | :48:02. | :48:11. | |
our by annum and a number of fement living in particular areas where | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
they voted Leave felt they weren't welcome. A German said, "I'm going | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
back." What did you say to that person? I tried to reassure them. | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
Even people who voted Leave, may not have voted because they hate Germans | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
or they don't like the German people. They voted either out of | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
protest or alienation about their own situation or some of them may | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
have voted because the EU is not a perfect institution by any means at | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
all. But our task locally is to build those links because that's | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
really where it matters and nationally to change the tone of | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
debate about Europe and many other matters in this society. Thank you | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
very much all of you. Thank you for coming on the programme. Thank you. | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
Some messages on social media from you. This is about the rent-to-own | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
sector, the rent-to-own companies, the former Labour leader, Ed | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
Miliband, presented a report earlier highlighting his concerns that | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
perhaps vulnerable people, with mental health problems, or learning | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
difficulties, were signing contracts for goods from rent-to-own firms | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
that they didn't really understand. This tweet from Dave, "Well done for | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
highlighting this." Julia tweets, "Well done, that was an important | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
subject excellently presented." Catherine texted, "It is sad that | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
companies shop at companies like BrightHouse. People who are poor | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
can't afford to save for a rainy day fund. They can't get a loan and | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
afford to buy new and charity shops are too expensive. John says, "I | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
applaud Ed Miliband for his efforts to better regulate rent-to-own | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
company. I question the success against companies like Wonga. How is | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
this a success?" Damon, "Great stuff from Ed. His argument for a cap is | :50:08. | :50:18. | |
compelling." Another viewer tweeted, "BrightHouse and companies like them | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
should have more regulation." Jessica says, "I'm 24 and I have | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
bipolar. Rent-to-own cost me my job and my health. My bill is ?68 per | :50:29. | :50:36. | |
week and no helps you if you can't afford her payments. There is a | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
charge per item if you're late with your weekly payment. They are | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
awful." More on that after 10am. BrightHouse say rent-to-own is | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
different to other forms of retail and they undertake extensive | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
affordability assessments. If you want to share the full film by Ed | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
Miliband, former Labour leader, you can find it on our programme page. | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
We will talk to him live after 10am this morning. | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
We'll be joined by senior Tories, one in the Cabinet, | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
another a former minister, who will tell us, exclusively | :51:16. | :51:17. | |
who they're backing as the next Conservative leader. | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
So Wales are now just one game away from reaching the Euro 2016 final. | :51:25. | :51:32. | |
The captain heads home the equaliser. | :51:33. | :51:48. | |
Something special is happening here tonight. | :51:49. | :52:28. | |
Wales are going into the semifinals. | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
If you work hard enough and you are not afraid to dream | :52:33. | :52:58. | |
I have had more failures than I have had success | :52:59. | :53:10. | |
We are enjoying this win and I think we deserve it. | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
It's 58 years since Wales last qualified for a football tournament | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
and on Wednesday, they face Portugal in the semi-finals. | :53:18. | :53:19. | |
This from a team which was ranked 112 in the world. | :53:20. | :53:22. | |
Manager Chris Coleman says they thrive on being the underdogs, | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
and as you heard him just say - they're not afraid of failure. | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
So how have Wales managed to do so well? | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
Matthew Syed is a sports journalist and author | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
who has spent a lot of time looking at the pyschology of sport. | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
Let's start with that post-match interview that Chris Coleman gave. | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
What did you make of it first of all? Well, I loved it. I just want | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
to point out I'm half Welsh! Good for you. I feel very strongly about | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
that at the moment. It was a really significant interview because he | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
said, "I've failed. I made mistakes but I've learned. Now I don't fail | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
failure." You look at England football team and it is almost as if | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
in their minds when they're playing they're thinking what if I misdirect | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
the pass, am I going to be the one that's scapegoated. That narrows | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
their creativity. They can't come up with adventurous football. It oozed | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
out of them. What Wales have got and Coleman described it brilliantly in | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
the post-match interview is they are looking at the possibilities rather | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
than the potential down sides. They are not afraid of doing interesting | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
things. Robson Karen u, can you imagine an England player doing that | :54:37. | :54:39. | |
in the box? Maybe in the Premier League. Maybe in the Premier League, | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
but not for the country, that's the thing. How do you get to a point in | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
your mind where you are not afraid to fail? It is easy to say, isn't | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
it? It is easy to say and there is a lot of evidence on this and | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
interesting evidence. It is to do with the way you frame failure, how | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
you think about it, do you see it as an indictment of who are, do you see | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
it as a reason to give up, do you see it as something that's | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
profoundly negative or a risk worth taking sth something that you could | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
learn from? Something that would lead to fantastic possibilities. | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
Just a redefinition of failure changes the interpretational | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
process. OK. A really good example is Beckham. He failed in a really | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
graphic way if you might rewining to 1998, you remember when he got sent | :55:26. | :55:33. | |
off. I thought somewhat unfairly, but we've understood why it | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
happened. The nexts season, he was vilified and turned into a dartboard | :55:38. | :55:47. | |
and he was booed, he had his best season ever. He won the treble for | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
Manchester United, he was Fifa player of the world, voted second | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
and I asked him how did that happen? He said, "I didn't think of that | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
failure as a reason to give up. I saw it as a great learning | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
opportunity. You don't kick out at somebody. Think of our children, | :56:04. | :56:10. | |
they don't like to ask questions in case they get it wrong. We're | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
crippled by a fear of looking less good than we want to look and that | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
stops us from growing and adapting and becoming the people we can | :56:18. | :56:18. | |
become. Pm Let's talk to some Wash fans. How | :56:19. | :56:31. | |
are you? Very good, thank you. You must still be on a high after Friday | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
night? Yeah. It has been good. Definitely. We travelled over to | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
legal and came back the same night, but I can't remember too much of the | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
journey back to be honest! Let's introduce Thomas Edwards and Cassey | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
Taylor. How are you? Good morning. I think Thomas and Cassey you booked a | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
holiday to Nice which is where you are now, thinking Wales would never | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
make it this far! Yeah, that's right. We booked it six | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
months ago not thinking that Wales would be still playing in the | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
tournament so now we've got to drive to Lyon on Wednesday afternoon and | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
try and find some match tickets hopefully. That might be tough to | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
get hold of a match ticket, even if you're in the area, you can unite | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
with other Wales fans, can't you? We thought we couldn't be so close and | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
not go up. That's our plan really. To get involved in the atmosphere. | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
Gerald and Luke, how have Wales managed to get this far? I think it | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
is about, probably about the system and our team spirit probably. They | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
played together. They worked hard for each other and yeah, they've | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
done really well. Thomas, what's your assessment of how they've got | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
this far? I think it is the passion and the work ethic and like Luke | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
said the team spirit of the players. I have not seen team spirit in any | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
other team like that ever before. You look at other teams in the | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
tournament, Portugal, Spain, Germany, I don't think anyone has | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
got the same team spirit we had. I think that's what carried us this | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
far. Case, what's your view? I think it is the fans. We were in the fan | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
zone on Friday and everyone was so excited, I never saw anything like | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
it. Wales won four out of five games and Portugal failed to win in 90 | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
minutes, what do you read into that in terms of Wednesday night? Well, I | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
really fancy us. What we saw in the second half against Belgium was that | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
the Belgium team, as good as they were, were playing as individuals | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
and Portugal have a tendency to do the same. They are not as | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
disciplined and I think that will play to our strengths really. I'm | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
confident. OK, what about you Luke? Yeah, I feel the same. I feel Ramsay | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
is a big loss and Ben Davis, but Johnny Williams can come in and he | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
has done well and Connor is decent, if they played like they have | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
throughout the tournament, they'll do well. Thank you very much for | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
talking to us. Thomas and Cassey I hope you get tickets of the Matthew, | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
what are you expecting? Rnlts I think it is 50/50. For me, more than | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
anything else, this is a triumph of the team over the individual. It is | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
like the Leicester store European Commission the players weren't the | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
best in the world, but when you have that spirit, it is amazing what can | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
be achieved. They have worked for each other and they've done runs for | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
each other and you can see how this is creating the old cliche, the team | :59:28. | :59:37. | |
is more than some of the parts. Rob e-mailed, "I see people making links | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
to Welsh roots. I have a leak in my kitchen. I have a crush on Catherine | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
Jenkins, surely this counts! ". Coming up, we'll be hearing | :59:50. | :59:55. | |
from Nigel Farage who is giving a speech setting out what Ukip | :59:56. | :59:57. | |
intends to do next after He is due to speak pretty soon | :59:58. | :00:04. | |
actually. So we'll bring you some of that speech as soon as he begins | :00:05. | :00:06. | |
talking. Let's get the latest | :00:07. | :00:17. | |
weather update with Ben. In some parts there is fine and dry | :00:18. | :00:25. | |
weather to come. The further north and west you are, we will see spells | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
of rain at times. So let's take a look at detail and as I've mentioned | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
to sum things up, the further south and east you are, things look dry. | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
There will be sunshine in the sunshine and things will feel warm, | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
but further north and west, yes, we will see some brispells, but -- dry | :00:41. | :00:48. | |
spells. We have rain moving across into Scotland and parts of North | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Wales as we go on through the day. For the far north of Scotland, it is | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
a mixture of sunshine and showers. To the south, a lot of dry weather, | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
a fair amount of cloud, but some brightness. And it will feel humid | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
with highs of 22 or 23 Celsius. This evening and tonight, cloudy | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
conditions for most. Some outbreaks of rain, but it will clear away and | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
the skies will start to clear by the end of the night. Cooler, fresher | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
conditions pushing in across the north-west, a cooler fresher day | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
tomorrow. Quite a breezy day. There will be a fair amount of sunshine | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
and showers across Scotland. Some showers could be on the heavy side | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
and temperatures ranging from 15 Celsius in the north to 21 Celsius | :01:25. | :01:25. | |
dm the south. That's all for now. Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire - | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
welcome to the programme. Let's go straight to Nigel Farage. I | :01:32. | :01:41. | |
am aware that not everybody in this country is happy, a lot of young | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
people happy mind up I scare stories and ivory angry and scared about the | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
future. It is an irony that it is the youth of the country who appear | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
to be worried, across the whole of the European Union it is the under | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
30s that are protesting on the streets against undemocratic | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
centralised control and, indeed, against the euro and virtually | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
everything that emanates from Brussels. In time, I hope that some | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
of these sharp divisions can be healed when people start to realise | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
that actually, life outside the European Union is very exciting. And | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
we have a much better, right future of being in charge of our own lives | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
and the stock markets, despite everything George Osborne told us, | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
have rallied strongly, the FTSE is about 14% higher bands in the | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
February low and there is a great number of Commonwealth countries | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
rushing forward in a bidding war to be the first people to sign a free | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
trade deal with an independent United Kingdom. What the country | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
needs is strongly Bishop, it needs direction, it needs not business as | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
usual. I'm certain of one thing - that the United Kingdom will leave | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
the European Union. We have won that. And in terms of Parliament and | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
the courts, that is a great, historic victory. What I am certain | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
of is what real is this government going to cut? And we need a new | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
Prime Minister who puts down some pretty clear red lines that were not | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
going to give him on issues like free movement and we need a Prime | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
Minister who will not sell us out to what is known as the single market | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
but effectively a big business protectionist cartel. We need a | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
vision from the new leader, a vision that shows we will engage with the | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
world and turn us into an enterprise economy. To do that and to achieve | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
that, we need a team of negotiators that include figures from across the | :03:51. | :03:52. | |
political spectrum which reflects that Brexit vote and, crucially, we | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
need some business people who know not only how the world works but | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
understand the importance of lobbying industry directly. We need | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
to be lobbying the German car industry, the French wine producers, | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
because next year, but France and Germany have general elections. It | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
is pressure on Angela Merkel, one Francois Hollande, from within those | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
countries, that is likely to get us the best deal. And we need to go | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
global and there is no reason to wait for this at all. As soon as we | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
get the new Prime Minister we need teams of negotiators. I am told we | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
don't have the skill or the confidence or the expertise, within | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
our own Civil Service, which I suppose is a price you pay when you | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
give away the ability to run your own country. That is headhunt, get | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
them in from Singapore and South Korea or Chile or Switzerland or any | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
of these countries who have managed to achieve far more in terms of | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
global trade deals than we have as part of the European Union. We are | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
not in charge of our own future. I want us to grab this opportunity | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
with both hands. One of the questions being asked is, what about | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
Ukip? What is the future after this result? We have clearly established | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
ourselves as a third political force in this country and this year we | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
need to extend that collective representation to the Welsh Assembly | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
and to the London Assembly. There is no doubt that without us, without | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
the growth in Ukip, there would not have been a referendum and there was | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
no doubt that when it came to the ground campaign in this referendum, | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
it was the People's army of Ukip who were out there delivering leaflets, | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
putting up the posters and doing all that work that needed desperately to | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
be done. And I do believe myself that it is Ukip and the Ukip | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
messages that inspired nonvoters to go out there and make a difference. | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
Without Ukip, there is no way the leave vote would have got over the | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
line. Ukip needs to be strong. We need to be strong and push to try to | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
make sure that this country gets the best possible terms. And in | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
electoral terms, while the party has built up a very loyal following of | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
people, they want to go out and vote Ukip at every given opportunity and | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
they see as has been the 1-party that is actually prepared to stand | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
up for ordinary, decent people. I feel that the deeper the crisis in | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
the Labour Party becomes, and there is no sign of that going away, and | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
the further the Parliamentary Labour Party and the Labour leadership get | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
away from their voters, I feel perhaps that is perhaps where our | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
greatest potential lies. Ukip right now is in a very solid financial | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
position, I do believe we need some reform of its management structures, | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
there is further professionalism that needs to be done, but the party | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
is in a pretty good place. Certainly compared to all the others. And if | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
we do not get, if we do not get a satisfactory Brexit deal, that, | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
allied to the woes of the Labour Party and that groundswell of | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
support that is amongst Ukip loyalists, if we don't get a good | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
Brexit deal that in 2020, watch this space. And the other subject of | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
speculation has been, what am I going to do? Well, all I can say on | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
this long journey is a huge thanks to everybody who has helped me, many | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
are in this room, and it has been a very long journey. Not at every | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
stage of the way an easy one. Although most of it, I have to say, | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
has been tremendous fun. When I think back to when I first stood for | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
Ukip, for anybody, in the East by-election, which took place in | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
1994, and I managed to scrape past screaming Lord such by a massive 164 | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
votes, and to have gone from that to being part of a national campaign | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
that attracted 17.5 million votes for the Brexit, that says to me that | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
although it has been tough at times, it has certainly been worth it. I | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
came into politics from business because I believe that this nation | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
should be self-governing. I have never been and never wanted to be a | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
career politician. My aim in being in politics was to get Britain out | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
of the European Union, that is what we voted for in that referendum two | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
weeks ago and that is why I now feel that I have done my bit but I could | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
not possibly achieve more than we managed to get in that referendum | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
and so I feel it is right that I should stand aside as either of | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
Ukip. I will continue to support the party and support the new leader and | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
a double what the negotiation process in Brussels like a hawk and | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
perhaps comment in the European Parliament from time to time. I am | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
also very keen to help the independence movements springing up | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
in other parts of the European Union because I am certain of one thing- | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
we have not seen the last country that wants to leave the European | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
Union. It has been a huge chunk of my life doing this and it is not | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
easy perhaps when you feel a degree of ownership of something to let it | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
go. But it does come at a cost to me and perhaps to those around me. | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
During the referendum campaign I said I want my country back. What I | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
am saying today is I want my life back. And it begins right now. Thank | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
you! APPLAUSE | :09:58. | :10:07. | |
Nigel Farage, the former leader of Ukip, he has just said he has done | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
his bit, here standing down as leader, it is right to stand aside, | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
it sounded like it is effective from right now. And he said it is right | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
for a new leader to take over. I will watch like hot, he says, as the | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
UK gets involved in this Brexit Hoseasons and I will perhaps | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
comment, he says, from time to time in the European Parliament. He is | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
not leaving politics altogether, just as leader as -- of Ukip. He | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
says the main aim was to get Britain out of the EU, which he says he has | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
achieved and he also says if they don't get a satisfactory Brexit | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
deal, in 2020 watch this space. Norman Smith is at Westminster. | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
Nigel Farage wants his life back? He has stood down before? I think he | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
means at this time, it would be a bit much to quit once, go back and | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
then do that again. He seems to mean it. Because he believes they have | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
achieved their long-term ambition, what Ukip was set up for, what he | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
went into politics for, to get written out of the European Union. | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
He argues that Ukip isn't much -- is in a much better position, they | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
don't need to carry on, they are the third party in British politics and | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
let us hear what he has to say... I will not be changing my mind again, | :11:33. | :11:44. | |
I can promise you. You said you wanted a strong leader who could | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
secure a Brexit deal and a new Prime Minister, which candidate to you | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
feel is best for that? Is at Andrea Leadsom? I am not related to Alan | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
Banks! I am not in a civil partnership with him! He has | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
supported Ukip but many Eurosceptic causes and he is one of the great | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
heroes of this movement. But his picks for himself and I think we | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
have to have a Brexit Prime Minister. We have to have somebody | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
who was bold and has vision, this is a big moment in the history of this | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
country. There are three candidates in support of the Brexit campaign | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
and I am not going to down any one of them by offering their support at | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
this moment. But I wanted very much to be one of the three. This is not | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
a moment for business as usual, this is a moment for radical leadership, | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
for inspiration, and to take advantage of this unbelievable | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
global opportunity before us. But when Bennett. Are you therefore | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
going to lead logics? You are going to form a new party with Alan Banks | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
or other Eurosceptics? I've do like this chap but I get bored with these | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
questions. No, I have made it clear I am starting aside, I would see out | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
my time in the European Parliament, I will go on cold reading that group | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
and I will watch very carefully once Article 50 has been triggered, how | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
those negotiations go. And I will continue to support Ukip, a party in | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
a very good position, in a very sound position, one or two reforms | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
need making, one or two steps up, but I will go on supporting Ukip and | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
the leadership and let us see what happens. Honestly, if the government | :13:39. | :13:47. | |
does not get a good deal, if it gets in over free movement, if it | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
concedes over this dreadful single market, then I think Ukip's best | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
days have yet to come. Notwithstanding what you said about | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
candidates, do you see the potential for closer cooperation whenever that | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
goes with the Conservative Party that is led by someone that you find | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
acceptable overtime? Could we be moving in that direction? If there | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
was to be a General Election this autumn, I do not think there will | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
be, but if there was, my own view would be that Ukip should not be | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
wasting resources and talent and energy I guess people who have the | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
guts to stand up against their own party leaderships and fight for the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
Brexit. Longer term, depending on who becomes a go, we might see a | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
different kind of politics and the less said the effects have been | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
seismic, I fully expect within the next couple of years that he will | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
see some different parties in British politics. You likely hood | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
that a wing of the Labour Party and Lib Dems get together is required | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
high. For all of you at Westminster, you think the last week has been | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
George Lucas, I expect there is more to come. -- to modules. What sort of | :15:06. | :15:14. | |
real do you envisage Ukip having within these negotiations? Do you | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
have to be part of the team? And what did you make of Philip | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
Hammond's few that will have to be some sort of concession free | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
movement? For any access to the single market? | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
I think it is desirable is a cross-party element to these | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
negotiations. Because that reflects the vote. That reflects the | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
cross-party nature of the Eurosceptic movement. But more | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
important than that is that we use people who genuinely understand how | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
Brussels works, and who have extensive networks and contacts. | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
With the German car industry, you know, with French manufacturers, or | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
wine producers... The idea we should approach these negotiations simply | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
as an elected politicians from one party meeting in corridors in | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
Brussels is the wrong approach. It needs more breadth, more | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
imagination. An absolute priority is to bring in business people. But a | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
desirability. And, again, a message to the country, to try and bring | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
people together. To make people understand this is about more than | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
the Conservative Party who happened to be in government, it is about our | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
country, choosing a new course... Look, I have no idea whether they | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
want ask me, or anybody else in Ukip to be a part of this. But we as a | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
party actually have some good knowledge how Brussels works. And we | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
have some pretty senior business figures amongst our supporters. As | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
for what deal the government cuts, Jess, I understand already we are | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
beginning to hear people saying that, actually, there will be | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
backsliding. -- yes. 17.5 million people voted very clearly for us to | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
be an independent nation that isn't part of the customs union called the | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
single market. And without the free movement of people. I suspect... | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
What we will do is try and keep the pressure on. But if they do give | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
way, then I repeat the point, that as far as Ukip is concerned, for the | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
2020 elections, you ain't seen nothing yet. ITV News, what will you | :17:21. | :17:29. | |
do next? Would you like to be part of the team that negotiates Brexit? | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
And, who do you think should be the next leader of Ukip, Douglas Castle | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
might have a good argument. That is a terribly good idea. I like that. | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
-- Douglas Carswell. CHUCKLES | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
I repeat the point that come as you know, we have the biggest allegation | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
of British MEPs in the European Parliament. We will necessarily be a | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
part of this process, whether it is formally, or informally, because | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
much of what is discussed will get debated and voted upon in the | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
European Parliament. So we will do that. If they Brexit government | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
wants to use Ukip foot Ukip because more, and it should think about | :18:15. | :18:16. | |
Labour figures, as well, that will be all for the good -- or Ukip | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
members. May the best man or best woman when, I say. -- win. An | :18:24. | :18:32. | |
interesting thing has happened since the victory. A lot of the | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
Conservative Party wanted Brexit have been trying to back away from | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
you as fast as possible. And back away from your campaign. I just | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
wondered how you felt about that. They say it is nothing to do with | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
you, nothing to do with immigration, it was about a Carswellian | :18:50. | :18:58. | |
sovereignty idea. Do you agree with that? | :18:59. | :19:00. | |
CHUCKLES As I said, I'm not a career | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
politician. That is how career politicians think and speak. They | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
think about the tribe of their party before their conscience, | :19:10. | :19:11. | |
constituents, or country. It is a great relief to sit here and say, I | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
will step aside... So what will actually happen now is in future I | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
will not be constrained when I answer questions like that. The real | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
me will now come out. CHUCKLES | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
They can, you know, make it up as much as they want. Look, I repeat | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
the point, there would not have been a referendum without Ukip, there | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
would not have been an effective ground game in the leave campaign | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
without the Ukip People's Army. Unless we take on some of those | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
issues that many in Westminster, or at smart dinner parties in Notting | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
Hill find it a bit tricky, unless we take one of those we would not have | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
all those nonvoters to turn out. And that is what made the difference and | :19:55. | :20:04. | |
got us over the line. You still have at least two years of service as an | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
MEP. Are you going to serve it out in full and take part in | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
proceedings? And during the negotiations will you try and | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
influence from within the parliament and the party? Yes, of course. There | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
will be a strong Ukip voice in that parliament during these | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
renegotiations. And if we see significant sliding, or weakness... | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
Or frankly appeasement from the British government, we will | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
certainly say so. Are we going to see out to mark the years? Well, I | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
hope the next Prime Minister is somebody who intends to roll up | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
their sleeves, and complete the job, well within two years, and then we | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
will be like the turkeys who voted for Christmas. -- otherwise we will | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
be like. Do you think the tone you took in the European Parliament last | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
week was a kid negotiating tactic which will help us get the best deal | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
for the UK? -- good negotiating tactic. I got up to speed after what | :21:08. | :21:16. | |
was, without doubt, the worst event ever in the history of the European | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
union project. I was so howled down, and shouted down, that twice Martin | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
Schulz sprang to my defence. I've never seen this happen before with | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
him. But it was quite extraordinary. It showed the fact that they are | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
simply not prepared to listen. They will continue with their political | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
projects, which is why it is doomed. In the face of many catcalls and a | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
huge amount of abuse, they got just a tiny piece of my mind back. And, | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
actually, how we should negotiate? Well, all I will say is that if we | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
start to be weak, if we start to concede in these negotiations, we | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
will get a rotten deal. We need a Prime Minister that recognises that, | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
actually, we have got the trump cards, and we have got the trump | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
cards because we buy a lot more from them than they do from us. The | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
opportunity for Brexit actually comes before the general elections | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
-- the German elections and the French elections. We need to stand | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
up for ourselves. Some of these arguments, that we cannot get access | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
to the single market unless we are members of that single market... | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
Just looking at the figures yesterday, something like nearly 1.5 | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
euros trillion worth of goods were sold into the Eurozone last year by | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
countries who don't even have a trade deal. Let's recognise the | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
strength of our negotiating position. Andrew Sinclair, if we are | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
now going to hear from the real you, can I ask you, what have you made of | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
the various attempts to try to answer each year in the past, and | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
will you now bury the hatchet with Douglas Carswell? I will bury the | :23:02. | :23:09. | |
hatchet with anybody. Look... When you lead a political party, and I | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
have been doing this for quite a while, you make decisions along the | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
way not everybody is happy with. Your style will not suit everybody. | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
I have no desire to do anything other than to fully support the aims | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
of Ukip and the next leader. And as I work with the person making all of | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
the decisions, that may involve falling out with people, as well. | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
INAUDIBLE It may well be, get down to the | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
bookies, but I would not put too much on it myself. Daily Mirror, | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
what conversations have you had with either Andrea Leadsom or Aaron Banks | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
about the Tory leadership? And are you putting yourself forward to be a | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
member of the team negotiating Brexit in Brussels? I'm not putting | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
myself forward. I did spend 20 years in business. I've spent a lot of | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
time in Brussels. I may have something to give if they want it, | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
if they don't, then that is fine. As for who I am speaking to... I speak | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
to Aaron Banks regularly, but I repeat the point, I don't do | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
everything he suggests. STUDIO: Ukip are also looking for a | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
new leader this morning, alongside the Conservative Party, so here are | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
some messages. This is what you are saying about this breaking news. | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
Everything how UK politicians should be saying instead of infighting and | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
pushing personal agenda, says one person. Paul says, how long is he | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
resigning for this time? Audrey says Nigel Farage is shouted down for | :24:44. | :24:50. | |
talking about the issues which are real men this country. Love him or | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
hate him, he tackles subjects most people don't wish to engage with. -- | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
which are real in this country. Nigel Sears, don't go, Nigel, we | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
need you! And another tweaked, this is a resignation speech, Carswell | :25:09. | :25:19. | |
has ousted him. -- Nigel says. No love lost between them. Carswell | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
Has just tweeted a smiley face, and that is all. The two are daggers | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
drawn. There has been a rift between them for some time. Interesting that | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
Nigel Farage said we are the turkeys who voted for Christmas. I wonder | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
if, at the end of the day, he has concluded he cannot do anything more | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
with Ukip. They've gone as far as they could go. They have the Brexit | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
referendum they wanted. Where do they go now? What is the point of | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
Ukip now? If there is backsliding over the negotiations he says he | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
will look out. Ukip will still be a force, etc. But he has been at this | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
for a long time. He may feel he has gone as far as he can go. But isn't | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
it amazing, in the wake of this EU referendum, everything has changed? | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
David Cameron, George Osborne, pretty much finished. Boris Johnson, | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
finished. Michael Gove finished. Jeremy Corbyn clinging on. One of | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
the key fixtures of our political landscape just seem to be | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
disappearing. And all because of this huge force unleashed by the EU | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
referendum. Nigel Farage said he would stay on as an MEP for two | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
years, but I suspect this time he will walk. I don't think he will | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
think I want to come back. I got the sense he feels he has gone now | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
pretty much as far as he can go. What is interesting is he is such a | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
divisive figure, frankly, you talk to people in the Leave campaign and | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
they were desperate to keep him at arm 's length. Yet in that whole | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
campaign he kept getting in the headlights. Think of that very | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
controversial post of that picture of the EU migrants queueing. Think | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
of his remarks about Cologne and sex attacks. He kept on dominating the | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
headlines. Listening to him, he basically said the referendum was | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
won by Ukip because they managed to get out those people who do not | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
traditionally vote. He said it was Ukip who got people out who | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
otherwise would not have turned out to this referendum. In other words, | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
it was Ukip's victory, and he is now bailing out. | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
Thank you. More reaction to come. As well as this. Who will take over the | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
Conservative leadership, who is heading to number ten? We will find | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
out who two senior Tories will be backing. And Ed Miliband has been | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
investigating renter on companies for this programme and we will talk | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
to him live in the programme and we will also get his reaction to Nigel | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
Farage's resignation. -- rent-to-own companies. | :28:04. | :28:14. | |
Nigel Farage has resigned as leader of Ukip. Speaking in London he said | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
Ukip is in a strong position and does not need his leadership any | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
more. He said there would not have been a referendum on Britain's | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
ownership on the EU without Ukip. He said he had now achieved his goal. I | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
have never been and I have never wanted to be a career politician. My | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
aim in being in politics was to get Britain out of the European Union. | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
That is what we voted for in that referendum two weeks ago. That is | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
why I now feel I have done my bit. That I couldn't possibly achieve | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
more than what we managed to get in that referendum. So I feel it is | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
right I should now stand aside as leader of Ukip. | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
George Osborne has pledged to slash the amount of tax businesses pay | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
in order to encourage investment in the wake | :29:06. | :29:07. | |
In a newspaper interview, the Chancellor said cutting | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
corporation tax was one of his five priorities to show the UK | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
He also pledged to maintain the northern powerhouse project despite | :29:14. | :29:23. | |
the Brexit vote. Boris Johnson has accused | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
the Government of failing to explain how the vote to leave the EU can be | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
made to work in the UK's interests. The former leave campaign says | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
hysteria is sweeping parts of the population who wanted to remain in | :29:37. | :29:37. | |
the EU. He argues that they need more | :29:38. | :29:38. | |
reassurance. The Iraqi government has declared | :29:39. | :29:47. | |
three days of national mourning after a bomb in the capital of | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
Baghdad wounded about 150 people and killed about 60. A lorry packed with | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
explosives was detonated in a busy shopping area. Islamic State says | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
they carried out the attack. Join me for BBC newsroom live at 11 o'clock. | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
See you then. We did miss some sports bulletins, | :30:07. | :30:16. | |
but Nick has stepped into the breach! I will make it up! Thanks, | :30:17. | :30:27. | |
Victoria, here are your sports headlines. Andy Murray will play the | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
Australian firebrand Nick Kyrgios in the last 16 on Centre Court today. | :30:31. | :30:32. | |
Murray has been playing down talk of being the favourite, after Novak | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
Djokovic's shock exit on Saturday. There was an epic match on court | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
two, Jo Wilfred Tsonga of France beating the American John Isner | :30:41. | :30:42. | |
19-17 in the decider. You might remember Isner beat Tsonga's | :30:43. | :30:44. | |
compatriot Nicolas Mahut 70-68 in a fifth set six years ago. Reigning | :30:45. | :30:56. | |
champion Serena Williams powered into the fourth round with a | :30:57. | :30:58. | |
straights sets victory over Annika Beck. Williams claimed her 300th | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
Grand Slam win in just 51 minutes, losing only three games along the | :31:02. | :31:03. | |
way. She now faces 13th seed Svetlana Kuznetsova of Russia. | :31:04. | :31:14. | |
Oaks Wales have been training at their camp in Brittany, ahead of | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
their European Championship semifinal against Portugal on | :31:18. | :31:19. | |
Wednesday. There are decisions to be made over who'll replace the | :31:20. | :31:21. | |
suspended Aaron Ramsey and Ben Davies. | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
And Iceland's dream run at the European Championship is over, after | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
hosts France beat them 5-2 in Paris to reach the semi-finals. Arsenal's | :31:31. | :31:32. | |
Olivier Giroud scored twice for France, who play Germany on | :31:33. | :31:43. | |
Thursday. And six-time champion jockey Kieran Fallon has retired | :31:44. | :31:45. | |
from the saddle. He's won 16 British Classic races in his career but he | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
had a fall on the gallops last week and trainer Michael O'Callaghan said | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
that at the age of 51, Fallon just doesn't bounce like he used to. I | :31:52. | :32:01. | |
think you should sit on the couch and just watch the racing! County | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
comeback tomorrow? I will be back! The start of a wonderful new | :32:08. | :32:09. | |
relationship, I can tell! In an exclusive report for this | :32:10. | :32:22. | |
programme the former Labour Leader Ed Miliband is calling | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
for better regulation He wants to see a cap introduced | :32:25. | :32:26. | |
on the amount of interest Rent-to-own companies | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
allow shoppers to pay for items such as TVs, | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
games consoles, fridges and washing machines in weekly instalments, | :32:36. | :32:37. | |
spread over years with interest. But consumers can end up paying up | :32:38. | :32:39. | |
to three times more for the product and we've discovered that some | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
companies are selling these goods to vulnerable people with mental | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
health problems and learning difficulties which has resulted | :32:46. | :32:47. | |
in concerns they may not understand The Citizens Advice Bureau tells us | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
it receives thousands of complaints a month about the sector | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
and the regulator must do more Ed Miliband has campaigned | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
against rent to own - Brighthouse is the largest | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
firm in the sector - and he thinks people should use | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
credit unions instead. Here's a short extract | :33:04. | :33:05. | |
of his exclusive report As leader of the Labour Party | :33:06. | :33:07. | |
and now as a backbench MP, I have talked about the need | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
for firms to do right by their BrightHouse have 300 | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
stores across the country, One of them is in Doncaster, | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
in my constituency. I am concerned that BrightHouse | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
are taking advantage of people on benefits | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
and working on low incomes. In the course of our investigation | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
I have been really shocked to find that BrightHouse are selling | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
to people with mental health Paul, not his real name, | :33:39. | :33:40. | |
asked us to hide his identity. He has learning difficulties | :33:41. | :33:53. | |
and mental health problems. Do you want to tell me | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
what you are owing to them and what goods you have got | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
with them? How have you ended up with five | :34:02. | :34:03. | |
items, do you think? BrightHouse denies exploiting | :34:04. | :34:18. | |
consumers in vulnerable circumstances or selling items | :34:19. | :34:29. | |
to people who clearly cannot afford them and says they have sufficient | :34:30. | :34:43. | |
policies and procedures in place to prevent these | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
practices from happening. The Financial Conduct Authority, | :34:46. | :34:47. | |
the body that regulates the rent-to-own sector, | :34:48. | :34:49. | |
told us: But I don't think that's clear enough and the guidelines | :34:50. | :35:05. | |
need to be stricter. The weekly payments at BrightHouse | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
may seem cheap, but the total But add in compulsory 5-star | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
service, that includes delivery and installation at ?55, | :35:16. | :35:27. | |
and Service Plus, repair or replacement of your item, | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
that costs ?136, on top of that interest rates of 69.9% per year | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
and payments spread over three years, you end up paying | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
a grand total of ?1092. I wanted to speak to BrightHouse | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
but they declined to be interviewed. So did the Consumer Credit Trade | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
Association and the Finance And Leasing Association, | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
the industry bodies There are those who make | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
the case that there is a gap in the market and Perfect Home, | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
BrightHouse and others provide The fundamental question | :36:03. | :36:04. | |
is whether or not we think these people should be able to opt | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
into a contract where they pay more overall but they have the appliances | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
tomorrow, or whether or not they shouldn't have these | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
appliances at all. It is an injustice to tell | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
people at the bottom that because they are poor they can't | :36:21. | :36:22. | |
have things that in 2016 From what I have seen, | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
too often rent-to-own companies are taking advantage of people | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
who have nowhere else to go. The regulator needs to stop the most | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
vulnerable in our society Rent-to-own companies need to stop | :36:32. | :36:33. | |
selling goods to people I think there should be a cap | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
on the total cost rent-to-own It has been done with | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
the payday lenders like We wanted to speak to someone | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
from BrightHouse on the programme today but they declined - | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
instead they gave us "We note that this feature | :36:56. | :36:57. | |
is presented by an avowed critic, who consistently | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
misrepresents our business. BrightHouse serves those | :37:02. | :37:03. | |
lower-income families who are We can speak to Ed Miliband, | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
former leader of the Labour Party and MP for Doncaster North and also | :37:07. | :37:34. | |
to Ryan Bourne, who is head of public policy at the Institute | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
of Economic Affairs, think tank. Welcome. What is wrong with the | :37:38. | :37:47. | |
shops providing this service to people who cannot afford to pay for | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
things up front with cash or who do not qualify for a credit card? | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
Because the costs are exorbitant. Often three times the price on the | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
High Street, because they are selling without clear information to | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
people about what they are buying, they are selling to people who | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
cannot afford to buy and they are only together all sorts of things, | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
like 5-star service, which you have no option but to pay for, so there | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
is a host of things wrong with this sector. In the end, it isn't a good | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
deal for my constituents and from my experience, I became an avowed | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
critic as BrightHouse say I am. They say they carry out extensive | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
affordability assessments and the customer knows what they will end up | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
paying? I do not think that is right, we heard in the longer | :38:41. | :38:42. | |
version of the film on the website, Zoe from BrightHouse, she said I do | :38:43. | :38:50. | |
not feel proper affordability checks are being done, I felt I was selling | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
to people who cannot really afford to pay and we talked again to people | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
in the film who did not really look at all of the finances and you have | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
had responses already to the film of people saying, I have got into | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
terrible trouble. The response from somebody with bipolar disorder who | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
is paying ?68 every week to the rent-to-own sector, which has been | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
ignored for too long. The regulator needs to look at these practices and | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
the rules that govern that sector. Is Ed Miliband right? To be fair, | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
his BT was conflating two different issues, selling to people who have | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
mental health issues, that should be governed by regulation and it is, as | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
the NCA knowledge. But the other thing is, he seems to be saying, | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
because these products are expensive he needs some price cap and people | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
will not have to pay so much. The problem with these price controls | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
and I know he has advocated these in the past for the mental and energy | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
sectors, if you constrain the amount of profits that companies can make, | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
constrain pricing, they can provide less of it in the first place. It is | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
all very well saying some people pay lots of money for a washing machine, | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
but if the alternative is to go to an expensive launderette on a weekly | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
basis, then you can see why some people choose to make this decision | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
even though it may be expensive overall. There are do need to be | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
alternatives and our social enterprises selling at a fraction of | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
the price and some of the rent-to-own sector but I think the | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
customer needs protection. Like the payday lending sector, if years ago | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
was a real scandal and there are still problems there. The fact that | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
a cap has been applied as, according to Citizens Advice, reduced by 50% | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
the number of people coming to them saying they have problems with | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
payday lenders. I am not saying a price cap is a total panacea and it | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
solves a problem but I just do not think that interest rates of 70% | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
seem fair or right and I think the regulatory bills need to act. Other | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
countries have caps on payday loans have many more people taking loans | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
from very undesirable people. And if you fail to be you will get your | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
kneecaps knocked out. We need to be careful about the statistics on that | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
because the evidence from other countries is pretty clear. A lot of | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
these companies are actually taking quite a risk when they sell those | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
products, I had a look at the academic evidence on this and the | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
skipping rope for payments on these type of purchases is about double | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
the normal retail rate and the payments are uncertain, lots of | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
people fail to pay on time. When you take into consideration that risk, | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
there must be some sort of pay off. I'm not pretending these pundits are | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
right for everybody but this idea that you can crudely cap the costs | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
is a very naive way of dealing with this problem. Part of the reason | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
people have trouble paying this bag is because they are selling to | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
people who cannot afford it. It is worth pausing on this issue of | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
disability because thanks to your programme, we discovered in the | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
course of the investigation about people who are in the most | :42:06. | :42:07. | |
honourable circumstances being sold to. And the FCA needs to look at | :42:08. | :42:15. | |
practices, whether the countries are following the advice of the | :42:16. | :42:17. | |
regulator but those guidelines also need tightening up. If they believe | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
the customer is unable to understand the nature of the agreement the firm | :42:23. | :42:24. | |
needs to make an assessment but whether it is appropriate to lend. | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
You say that is not clear enough, that is clear? We have waded through | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
the detailed guidance and I personally think Cabinet Secretary | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
to me to be investigated for the way they sell to people with | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
vulnerabilities but I think it might be necessary for the FCA to tighten | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
up guidance further. I can read some comments from people watching. This | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
e-mail, thank you for the peace presented by Ed Miliband, hopefully | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
it will go some way to ending the expedition of the weaker and more | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
vulnerable people amongst us. Louise says, I have said from a long time | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
that rent-to-own companies should have something in place to protect | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
the most vulnerable, especially those with mental health conditions. | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Mark Pfizer discussed in the amount of interest they charge. If the | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
government help the poorest people, perhaps by providing government | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
backed loans, it would do more to help the people that it is | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
undermining. Jason, great to see investigating rent-to-own companies | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
that are clearly taking advantage of some. David says I used to use it | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
rent-to-own company and the pressure you into adding further goods and | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
services with no thought for what you can afford. And Tony just | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
watched a segment on BrightHouse, he did a really good job, new career? | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
Speaking of new careers, Nigel Farage has stepped down of his party | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
in the last 20 minutes or so. Any reaction? It was classic Nigel | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
Farage. He says he was not a career politician and he stood for | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
Parliament. I do not like the legacy that Nigel Farage leaves because I | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
think it is a legacy, as we saw in the referendum campaign, of Stirling | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
division, I thought the poster about breaking point was disgusting. | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
Respect the decision that has been taken in this decision -- referendum | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
but I am not sorry to see him leaving the political scene. He said | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
the deeper the crisis in the Labour Party becomes, that is where Ukip's | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
potential lies. That must be really alarming? He exposed the fact that | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
he was willing to go in with the Tories, we always said that Ukip was | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
a right-wing party. But it is attracting ex-Labour party voters? | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
Better see what happens in the General Election. I think it is | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
important for us as a party and for the people on the remain silent the | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
argument to be clear that we accept this result and we will negotiate in | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
good faith for a future outside the European Union. I do not want this | :44:54. | :45:02. | |
referendum. There were deeper issues even than those around immigration | :45:03. | :45:04. | |
that have been exposed by it. But it is important that we respect the | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
result and I think it is important that we are clear about that. I | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
sympathise with the people who have gone onto the streets and petitions | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
around the referendum but I say to them, imagine if it was 22-48 to | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
remain and we had believe people on the streets, with say, we have had | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
this. You do not agree with Tony Blair who said let us keep the | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
options open? I have a slightly different view, it is important we | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
show that we respect the result. Last week you call for Jeremy Corbyn | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
to stand down along with other Labour MPs. Despite that he is still | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
there. Are you resigned to him saying? | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
Lets see what happens. People keep saying that but he is the leader. I | :45:50. | :45:59. | |
felt we have a system where you are elected by the supporters. Some of | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
the smoke signals in the last couple of days have suggested that talks of | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
negotiations have happened... A mediation with unions in the middle? | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
I'm not sure who the mediators would be. Unenviable job. Is that feasible | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
to you? Is that realistic? It would be much better if there was a way | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
Jeremy could transition out of his role, and we could have new | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
leadership. I think it would be much better than the party engaging in | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
some kind of civil war. Let's see where we get to. Let me dig | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
deeper... You mean after the Chilcott enquiry this week? Might | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
there be a way for him to go after he has criticised Tony Blair, or | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
called for him to be tried in... I think Jeremy has changed. In some | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
respects in a positive way on our stances. I understand why he wants | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
the legacy to be carried forward. The question to the party, the | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
question I wanted answered last week is who can take us forward in a | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
united way against a new Tory leader into the general elections. We don't | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
know when it will be. I think that requires new leadership, as I said | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
last week. Do you regret changing the rules, meaning people could sign | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
up for ?3? I don't. I think a political party needs as many people | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
as possible supporting it. Why don't you respect the mandate of those | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
people who voted? Because it has always been the case, even when we | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
introduced new rules, you are elected by a party but you need to | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
command the confidence of the Parliamentary party. If one fifth of | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
the party do not support you and trigger a new election there will be | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
on the ballot. 75% expressed no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. Does he | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
need 51 MPs to put him on a ballot paper if there is a leadership | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
contest? I don't know. That is a matter to be sorted out by the | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
National executive. It is written down in the Labour Party rule | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
somewhere? As I said, a matter for the national executive. Let me ask | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
you about Theresa May, the Home Secretary, who wants to be the next | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
Prime Minister. She said that for her the status of millions of EU | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
citizens already here in Britain, and British citizens living in EU | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
countries, it will be part of the Brexit negotiations. What do you | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
think of that? I don't agree with her. I don't agree with her on | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
principle because I think people came here with legitimate | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
expectations they would be allowed to work here. You have British | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
citizens living abroad. I don't agree with her in principle, but | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
think about the work ability of this. Are we really saying we will | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
start deporting people from EU countries, and repatriating people | :48:52. | :48:53. | |
who were living and working in other EU countries? If it isn't workable | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
and it isn't right in principle how can it be a negotiating chip, a | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
bargaining chip, in these negotiations? I think she's wrong. I | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
think she should reverse her position. It is so unfair to those | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
people who are working throughout our country and public services and | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
elsewhere. What message are we sending to them about their role in | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
our country? What message do you think? A terrible message that they | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
are somehow not welcome many more. And we see these reprehensible | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
racist attacks in our country, which I think I'm appalled so many people. | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
But we need to send a clear message to them that they are welcome. That | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
we have rules in place. And that we will respect those rules. Why do you | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
think Britain voted to leave? Deep reasons. It goes much deeper than | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
racism. Fundamentally a lot of people, including my constituency, | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
feel failed by politics, failed by our economy, it was not working for | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
them. A project fear campaign that said, think about how much you have | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
Toulouse from voting out, they did not feel they had much to lose, | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
because they felt happy with the way -- because they felt unhappy with | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
the way the country had been treating them. -- you have to lose. | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
We understand people feel disenfranchised socially and | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
economically. And we have to sort out the immigration issue. But there | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
are deeper problems round housing, jobs, wages, things people see in | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
their own lives. Thank you for coming on the programme. If you want | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
to share and his -- if you would like to see his film, you can find | :50:32. | :50:33. | |
it on the website. And as we've said - | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
BrighHouse say that Rent-to-own is a very different proposition | :50:37. | :50:38. | |
to other forms of retail and that they undertake extensive | :50:39. | :50:40. | |
affordability assessments before lending and seek to support | :50:41. | :50:42. | |
all those customers who find This morning to map a senior | :50:43. | :50:54. | |
Conservatives exclusively declare this programme who they are | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
supporting in the race to become the next leader of the Tory party. Let's | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
talk now to Liz Truss, the Environment Secretary, and was | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
supporting Boris Johnson. And Baroness Warsi, he is the former | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
party chairman. Thank you. Baroness Warsi, who will you be supporting? | :51:13. | :51:22. | |
Theresa May. Why? Because I think we have a number of years ahead of us | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
which will be serious and difficult for the country. We need a Prime | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
Minister who is going to be a substantial figure, somebody with | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
lots of experience, and a serious politician for serious times. Liz | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
Truss, who are you supporting? Theresa May. Why? We are in a | :51:39. | :51:46. | |
difficult situation as a country. The British people have spoken. I am | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
clear we must listen to people. Brexit must be Brexit. What we now | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
need is a leader to have the seriousness and the stability to get | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
the deal done, but also make sure that our country does well both | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
economically and socially in the future. We will delve a little bit | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
deeper in a second. This support will Theresa May means that she has | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
the backing of well over 100 Conservative MPs pushing her way | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
ahead of other candidates. She insists she won the contest, not a | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
coronation. I'm also joined by John Redwood who was supporting Andrea | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
Leadsom and Eddie Bazeley who is supporting Michael Gove. -- Ed | :52:24. | :52:33. | |
Vaizey. How on earth do you trust Michael Gove? I have worked with him | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
for many years. He has been at the centre of this government for many | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
years. He has been one of the people who has moved the Conservative Party | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
into centre ground. You have heard what he said in his speech when he | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
announced his leadership. It was a wide-ranging speech covering lots of | :52:51. | :52:52. | |
issues. This is not just about Brexit. We have to talk about what | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
future we want our country and a lot of issues. What ever he says, and | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
whatever you say as his friend for decades, Boris Johnson was also | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
apparently his friend. He will forever be seen as a pretty | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
shameless betrayal of friends. He made the right choice. It would have | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
been a betrayal had he swallowed it all up. Simply put Boris Johnson | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
forward as the candidate for Prime Minister. Boris Johnson wasn't under | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
anybody's orders to stand down. He could have stood. He could have had | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
his contest and put himself forward. What you think of his former | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
campaign manager saying Michael Gove is a gossip fond of a drink and | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
would be a security risk? -- what do you think. He has worked incredibly | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
hard and education. What about this? It does not ring true. You cannot | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
sit at centre of government and then be criticised like that. There is | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
much anger in Brussels at the Brexit vote. Surely need is there would be | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
much more inclined to give a remain, a Conservative Prime Minister, who | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
voted for remain, a good deal rather than somebody who has led Britain | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
out of the UK like somebody you are supporting, Andrea Leadsom? We saw | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
what happened when David Cameron tried to do his best. He got nothing | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
from them. Should they be hostile to her? She is the most experienced of | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
the five candidates when it comes to understanding Brussels. She chaired | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
the important study in the last parliament. All of the details about | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
where our relationship does not work. She is up to speed on the | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
detail. Experienced businesswoman and minister. She would be a tough | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
and experienced negotiator for Britain. I have served in 21 | :54:35. | :54:42. | |
positions. I always found that because they felt I did not want to | :54:43. | :54:48. | |
deal and much of what they agreed on was disagreeable, it was much more | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
important to get the UK's Bottom Line in that position than if you | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
were a collaborator. Did you say she was much more experienced? One | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
European matters. She has been a middle ranking minister. She is an | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
important minister in the energy Department. I was clearer what I | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
said. On the European issues she has studied them all and all of the | :55:09. | :55:10. | |
other ministers in the competition haven't. But it is much more than | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
Brexit when you want to be Prime Minister. Mr Blair and Mr Cameron | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
had no ministerial experience and they became Prime Minister 's. | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
Andrea Leadsom has been a minister, she understands the white always, | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
but crucially she understands how Brussels works and what all of the | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
laws are we have to deal with. -- Prime Minister. She is keen on | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
getting our borders back, getting our money back, cutting VAT on fuel, | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
all of the things we promised in the campaign in a way people can trust. | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
Why is the hesitation about publishing her taxes? They visit, | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
she intends to do so. If she ends up being in the final two? Yes, and | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
what is wrong with that? All MDs don't have to publish them. You know | :55:54. | :56:02. | |
what we earn. -- MPs. She has the backing of the Ukip donor Aaron | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
Banks. Nigel Farage has resigned. Would she want Nigel Farage in her | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
Brexit negotiating team? She will form the best possible team for | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
Britain once she becomes Prime Minister, assuming she wins. I am | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
not going to advise her on that kind of thing. I think it is a red | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
herring by the BBC. There lots of really decent people, 70 million | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
people, who voted for Brexit. Bring us together don't keep to find | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
divisions. There is a huge amount of talent on the Brexit side of the | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
argument and we need to use that talent to get a really good deal for | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
the UK. One of the reasons this country voted to leave the EU is | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
they felt net migration wasn't under control. Theresa May has presided | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
over that. Surely that is a problem for her? People were very clear in | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
the referendum that they wanted to leave. But it is a problem that | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
reason my presided over net migration levels. I completely agree | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
that freedom of movement was one of the major reasons people voted to | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
leave. And you are backing her? That is why Theresa May is committed to | :57:05. | :57:17. | |
this. This must be negotiated as the key part of our Brexit. Will she | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
moved quickly to protect us now? Everybody here and now is welcome | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
but we need immediate protection so it doesn't become a problem. What | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
she will do is work of the negotiating position and then get on | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
with leaving the EU. That is what the British people have voted for. I | :57:32. | :57:43. | |
am feeling outnumbered. Michael Gove has made it clear that EU citizens | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
are welcome here. People who are living here are welcome to stay, | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
let's make that clear. What is important is that we are not | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
electing a leader on position, we are electing somebody who has to go | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
straight into the negotiations. It is important we have somebody who is | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
serious, credible, who has had years... Why does she not guarantee | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
the status of EU citizens living in the UK now? She is for the | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
foreseeable future whilst we are still members of the EU. But we | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
cannot guarantee that long-term position until those negotiations | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
take place. It would be responsible... They need | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
protecting... You can carry on talking, but we must go. Thank you | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
all of you. | :58:29. | :58:33. |