01/09/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


01/09/2016

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Hello, it's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:00.:00:08.

"The most devastating strike in NHS history".

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That's the verdict of Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt

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as junior doctors plan a series of five-day walkouts.

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We'll be assessing the impact on patients and finding out how

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Around 100,000 operations may be cancelled, maybe a million hospital

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appointments could end up being postponed and that is going

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to cause absolute misery for many, many families up

:00:37.:00:38.

Donald Trump tells supporters he'll deport millions of illegal

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immigrants if he's elected to the White House.

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And he's as determined as ever to put up a barrier

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On day one we will begin working on an impenetrable, physical,

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tall, powerful, beautiful southern border wall.

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And we'll meet the London 2012 volunteer who's bought kit

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for hundreds of paralympians from developing countries

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after realising some were competing in running shoes that

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Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

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Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking

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Are you due to have an operation in two weeks' time during the doctors

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strike? We would like to hear from you especially.

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Use the hashtag Victoria Live and if you text, you will be charged

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Hospitals in England are making contingency plans for a series

:01:59.:02:05.

of five-day strikes announced by junior doctors.

:02:06.:02:08.

The latest wave of industrial action is due to begin on September

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Similar walkouts are planned each month for the rest of the year.

:02:11.:02:14.

The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has said he still wants to talk.

:02:15.:02:17.

This time, hospital managements have had a lot less notice they did

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when junior doctors in England last staged walk-outs in April.

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They will have to postpone thousands of routine operations and planned

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rotas to allow consultants to cover their striking junior

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The latest round of walk-outs will take place on five consecutive

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days, rather than two, which will make it the longest such

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A five-day strike will be really tough for us.

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I think it will be particularly tough for our patients

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because we would estimate at least 13,000 people across the country

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will have their procedures cancelled or rearranged.

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Strike action affecting routine care began in January this year

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but in April the 1st all-out strike by a group of doctors

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Then talks resumed and a deal was done between the BMA

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and the government, but in July, BMA members rejected

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No doctors want to take industrial action, but the silence

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from the government, the lack of a response

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and the rejection of the contract by junior doctors has meant that,

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really, we were left with no other choice today than to take

:03:26.:03:28.

So many lives are going to be disrupted.

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Around 100,000 operations might be cancelled, maybe a million

:03:37.:03:38.

hospital appointments could end up being postponed

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and that is going to cause absolute misery for many, many families up

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People will ask themselves, why the BMA, who said

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this was a good deal, good for doctors, good for patients,

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good for the NHS, are now saying it is such a bad deal

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that they want to impose the worst strike in NHS history.

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With winter approaching, NHS finances under pressure

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and patient care targets being missed, there is growing

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frustration across the service at the long-running dispute over

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a week and pay and working conditions is not resolved and more

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What chance of the dispute being sorted? There was agreement before

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and now it has fallen apart. They look as far apart as they have ever

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been and there is no prospect of any further talks. Jeremy Hunt said if

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the BMA agreed something back in May and the members have thrown it out,

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what chance of coming to any meaningful agreement with the BMA?

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The BMA's view is that that is what the members wanted, they rejected

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the contract and talks have got to get going and the government have

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got to drop the idea of imposing the contract in October. What we don't

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know is what the Prime Minister Theresa May is thinking. She might

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be saying something about that later is, and it looks as if she will have

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two express a view as to whether there is any prospect of further

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talks or she takes the view that the government has done all it can and

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this dispute just continues. Junior doctors, do they still have public

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support? The polls in this bring suggested that broadly they did,

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they had just over half the public saying that they did not object to

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the junior doctors actions, but that might change, moving to five days

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rather than two, in terms of all-out strikes in England, and that might

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put extra stress on hospitals. That might result in appointment is being

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cancelled, but we don't know and we don't know how many junior doctors

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Friel, given that 42% voted in favour of the contract, -- feel,

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given that 42% voted in favour of the contract, they don't maybe want

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to carry on with the action. Others feel it is wrong to talk about a

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seven NHS without talking about how it is being funded, and there is

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talk that that is not with irrelevant to the Eichmann, the

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seven days. What is the sticking point? -- irrelevant to the

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argument. It is about working at weekends, the BMA also says there

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are issues about how you look after the interests of women in part-time

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work, coming back into the workforce, and they feel they have

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not had enough reassurances over the seven-day NHS, but the government

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says it has made concessions already and they say it was agreed before,

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until it has now been thrown out by the members. Thanks for joining us.

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We will talk about that further later.

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And now a summary of the rest of the day's news.

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US Presidential candidate Donald Trump has insisted that

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Mexico will pay to build a border wall between the two

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countries during a major speech on immigration.

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There were expectations that Mr Trump would use the event

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to soften his stance on immigration policy.

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Instead, the Republican hopeful gave an impassioned address

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underscoring his position, as Laura Bicker reports.

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There is to be no pivot, no softening of his stance.

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Donald Trump is holding his course on immigration, starting

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with the policy that has become so popular with his voting base.

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We will build a great wall along the southern border.

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And Mexico will pay for the wall.

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As for the millions in the country illegally, Mr Trump says it is time

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for them to leave, only then can they apply to comeback.

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Illegal immigrants who have committed crimes

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I am going to create a new special deportation task force focused

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on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous criminal illegal

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immigrants in America who have evaded justice,

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just like Hillary Clinton has evaded justice.

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This was a very different tone to the one he had taken earlier

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with the Mexican president on a surprise visit.

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We didn't discuss payment of the wall.

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However, this was disputed by President Pena Nieto,

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who said on Twitter, "at the beginning of the conversation

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with Donald Trump, I made it clear Mexico would not pay for the wall".

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Just one more controversy in a campaign which has

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And Joanna will be getting reaction from Mexico to Trump's comments -

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A 23-year-old man remains in police custody over the deaths of a woman

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and young boy who were killed when a car that was being chased

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Three girls were also injured in the crash

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in Penge in south east London yesterday afternoon.

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The man is under arrest on suspicion of causing death

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Frankie McCamley is at the scene this morning.

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What is the latest? To take you back to yesterday, and you can see more

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flowers are being laid behind me. What happened yesterday, there was a

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police chasing a suspected stolen vehicle, being driven yesterday

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afternoon, and as the chase took place through this residential area,

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it mounted the pavement and came here where you can see flowers have

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been laid and hit a woman and three young children. Sadly the woman died

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and a young boy died at the scene. Three young girls were trapped by

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the car and onlookers tried to save them and tried to lift the car and

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help bring these girls to safety. They were taken dollars bottle and

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that is where they remain. -- they were taken to hospital. Police say a

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23-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of death by dangerous

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driving and because the police were involved, this was a police car

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chase, the Independent Police Complaints Commission will also be

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investigating this. Thanks for joining us.

:10:34.:10:50.

The chief executive of tech giant Apple has described as 'outrageous'

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a European ruling that the company was given illegal tax

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Tim Cook said the ruling - which says Apple must pay 13 billion

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euros in back taxes - was driven by politics.

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He told the Irish broadcaster, RTE, that Apple pays a 'reasonable

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The EU's commission overreach in this regard is unbelievable to us,

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we've never heard anything like it. It is like playing a sports game,

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winning a championship and later finding out that the goals count

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differently than you thought they did.

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People who don't own a television - but use the BBC iPlayer

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to catch up on shows - must pay for a TV

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The penalty is a fine of up to ?1000.

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Here's our Media and Arts Correspondent David Sillito.

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It is estimated that more than half a million people watch the BBC

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only on the Iplayer and until today they didn't have

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We needed it for watching or downloading any BBC programmes

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What about on a phone or something?

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From today, and anybody who watches or download any BBC TV

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content will have to pay the ?145.50 licence fee.

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The reason for the change is because the BBC says

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it was facing a ?150 million shortfall in its income

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because of the number of households that no longer have a television

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and are watching the BBC only on the Iplayer catch-up service.

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It is less than 2% of households but the government agreed to close

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what was described as a loophole in the law.

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There won't be any change for those who already pay the licence fee,

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but anyone who watches or downloads on BBC TV content onto a smartphone,

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tablet or connected television will now have to pay.

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The BBC won't say how it will enforce the new law,

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but has said it won't be monitoring private Wi-Fi networks.

:12:58.:13:03.

There's a call today to extend the programme that allows victims

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of crime to meet those who committed out the offence against them.

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A report by MPs on the Justice Committee says

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the provision of such restorative justice schemes is currently

:13:12.:13:13.

The Ministry of Justice says it will consider the report carefully.

:13:14.:13:19.

The NHS says there's shortage of organs that could save the lives

:13:20.:13:22.

Research has found that fewer than a third of Black

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and Asian families allow the organs of a relative to be used

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after they die, compared to two thirds of white families.

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More than 1,300 people died waiting for a transplant

:13:37.:13:38.

The NHS is calling for ethnic minority groups need

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People from black and Asian communities have

:13:42.:13:47.

Firstly, they are more likely to need a kidney transplant

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That is because they have a predisposition to certain diseases

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Also, they have many thousands of years of culture about death

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So, unless people from black and Asian communities

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are prepared to donate, people from their own community

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Conservationists say the outlook is bleak for African elephants

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after the first ever aerial survey showed a dramatic reduction

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The census discovered nearly a third of the continent's elephants -

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some 144,000 animals - have been killed, mostly

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by poachers, in just a seven year period.

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Researchers warn that half the elephants left in Africa

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That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 930.

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In a moment, more on Donald Trumps promise to throw thousands

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Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

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use the hashtag Victoria Live and if you text, you will be charged

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Let's get some sport with Will Perry now.

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Will, the transfer window finally closed last night with clubs

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It was quite uninspiring in terms of the deadline day, but a few deals

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have raised eyebrows. The figure had gone over ?1 billion and it finished

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at ?1.165 billion. If you are rich Chelsea supporter, I'm not sure how

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you feel about this, David Luiz, he has been re-signed from PSG, who

:15:39.:15:44.

they sold for ?50 million a couple of years ago and I'm not sure if he

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is a better player now than what he was two years ago. He is still a

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Brazilian international, is he signed as a centre back? It is not

:15:54.:16:02.

clear. Moussa Sissoko, he has gone to Tottenham, it looked like he was

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going to Everton, and they had a private jet ready for him, but he

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decided to stay in London and sign for Tottenham. Interesting

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documentary was made on Moussa Sissoko in the summer and he said

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that Arsenal were the club in his heart.

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Leicester paid a record sum for is Lance Amani. Can you imagine this a

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few years ago? Jack Wilshere playing for Bournemouth. Look at this. A

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season long loan deal. Absolute dreamland. All the deals are on the

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BBC sport website. Onto tennis now and a tough night

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for Johanna Konta at the US Open but she has made it

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through to the third round? Worrying scenes. She was in her

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second-round match, and she crouched to the floor. She was

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hyperventilating. She had blurred vision, increased heart rate as

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well. Disturbing scenes at one stage. This was against Svetlana

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Pironkova. She took a break and came back to win 6-2, 5-7, 5-2. There was

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a spike in my heart rate. I could not control my breathing, so I

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started hyperventilating and shaking. I went down on the ground

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because I was quite violently shaking. You'll good to see she is

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OK. She will play Belinda Bencic next. Kyle Edmund made it through to

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the next round. He followed up that win against Richard Gasquet. You

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will play John Isner in the last 32. -- he will play.

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And finally a good day for Tour de France winner

:18:11.:18:12.

He is aiming to be the first man to win the Tour de France and the

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welter in the first year. He leads by 54 seconds. Thank you very much,

:18:23.:18:28.

Will. The US Republican presidential

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candidate Donald Trump has said he will deport millions of illegal

:18:31.:18:34.

immigrants if he is He also told a cheering crowd

:18:35.:18:36.

in Arizona that he would build a two thousand mile wall to stop

:18:37.:18:46.

illegal immigration. His speech came just hours

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after talks in Mexico City with the Mexican President Enrique Pena

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Nieto. At a news conference afterwards,

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his tone was a little gentler than it has been so far

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during his campaign. It has been a tremendous honour and

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I call you a friend. They beat us at the border,

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people are flowing through. Drugs are coming across,

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pouring across. No one wins in either country

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when human smugglers and drug traffickers prey on innocent people,

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when cartels commit acts of violence, when illegal

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weapons and cash flow We have a tremendous deficit,

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we have a trade deficit with Mexico. When jobs leave Mexico,

:19:28.:19:34.

the US or central America and go overseas, it increases poverty

:19:35.:19:39.

and pressure on social services as well as pressures

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on cross border migration. We are going to have our borders

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are nice and strong, We recognise and respect the right

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of either country to build a physical barrier or a wall

:19:55.:20:01.

on any of its borders. We didn't discuss

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payment of the wall. In Arizona, he set out his ten point

:20:07.:20:41.

plan to tackle illegal immigration. He mentioned the wall again, but in

:20:42.:20:45.

a different tone, and he talked about who should pay for it.

:20:46.:20:47.

On day one we will begin working on an impenetrable,

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physical, tall, powerful, beautiful, southern border wall.

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We will use the best technology including

:21:00.:21:07.

above and below ground sensors, that's the tunnels.

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Towers, aerial surveillance and manpower to supplement the wall,

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find and dislocate tunnels and keep out criminal cartels

:21:26.:21:32.

and Mexico, you know that, will work with us,

:21:33.:21:34.

He went on to speak about what he thinks is wrong

:21:35.:21:46.

The fundamental problem with the immigration system

:21:47.:21:51.

in our country is that it serves the needs of wealthy donors,

:21:52.:21:58.

political activists and powerful, powerful politicians.

:21:59.:22:02.

Let me tell you who it does not serve.

:22:03.:22:18.

It does not serve you, the American people.

:22:19.:22:24.

When politicians talk about immigration reform,

:22:25.:22:28.

they usually mean the following; amnesty, open borders, lower wages.

:22:29.:22:35.

Immigration reform should mean something else entirely.

:22:36.:22:41.

It should mean improvements to our laws and policies to make

:22:42.:22:44.

In Mexico this morning is Erik Markeset, who was born

:22:45.:22:56.

in Mexico and runs his own business in Mexico City.

:22:57.:23:00.

Republican and Donald Trump supporter Alex Chalgren is in Texas

:23:01.:23:03.

for us, and Brian Bledsoe, who is also a Republican but isn't

:23:04.:23:06.

convinced Donald Trump is the right man for the top job

:23:07.:23:08.

Erik, you live in Mexico City - how are people thee feeling

:23:09.:23:22.

about Donald Trump visiting?- You've helped organise protest

:23:23.:23:24.

rallies in Mexico City - how much interest has there been?

:23:25.:23:28.

For a lot of reasons I am opposed to him. I can't figure out what he

:23:29.:23:34.

stands for, the constant flip-flopping, even on issues like

:23:35.:23:38.

Mexico, are troubling. The fact that he would bash Mexico and Mexicans

:23:39.:23:44.

and then come to Mexico seems inconsistent. If I understood what

:23:45.:23:49.

he represented, maybe I would consider it, but he is a

:23:50.:23:57.

businessman, he knows what still stability -- he knows what stability

:23:58.:24:01.

means to the business community. He struck a different tone in Mexico

:24:02.:24:07.

from the one he used later in Arizona, but obviously it is a

:24:08.:24:10.

different environment, when you're delivering a speech versus talking

:24:11.:24:15.

to somebody about something you want to achieve together. In the US, he

:24:16.:24:21.

is calling Mexicans ravers, then he is talking in Mexico about them

:24:22.:24:24.

being valuable contributors. So what is his perspective on Mexico, on

:24:25.:24:31.

trade? One minute he says he wants to eliminate NAFTA, and the other he

:24:32.:24:42.

wants to eliminate it -- he wants to reform it. I am for fair trade, and

:24:43.:24:45.

I am not sure where Donald Trump stands.

:24:46.:24:51.

Alex, you're a loyal Trump supporter - has your view changed

:24:52.:24:53.

He wants to build the wall, he wants to deport the illegal aliens in this

:24:54.:25:09.

country, and he wants... I don't see how there is a narrative change. If

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you want to make friends and influence people, is the rhetoric

:25:15.:25:18.

that he uses the right way to go about it? We're hearing that the

:25:19.:25:25.

sense in Mexico is that Mexicans are being bashed by Donald Trump and

:25:26.:25:27.

people who don't even have the chance to vote in the selection

:25:28.:25:31.

coming out against him because of it. I that is the media perpetrating

:25:32.:25:40.

him in this racist, bigoted way. The words are coming out of his mouth.

:25:41.:25:47.

He has corrected much of what he has said. He has said, I have offended

:25:48.:25:52.

people and I am sorry. He has changed his ways, and I think that

:25:53.:25:57.

needs to be brought out more. He had been meeting with the Mexican

:25:58.:26:00.

president and said, we did not discuss who pays for the wall. The

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Mexican president said, we did discuss it, and I said we will not

:26:05.:26:08.

pay for it. Is that a trustworthy thing to come out and come and say

:26:09.:26:12.

one thing when the reality seems to be different? I obviously don't know

:26:13.:26:17.

what the conversation was, because it was behind closed doors. But I am

:26:18.:26:24.

sure that whatever was discussed, it will be implemented when Mr Trump is

:26:25.:26:28.

president, whether it means Mexico will pay for the wall or it means is

:26:29.:26:35.

that there may be more fees on visas to pay for it. I don't know. Brian,

:26:36.:26:42.

you have had reservations, are you warming to Donald Trump? This speech

:26:43.:26:47.

last night was one of his best speeches. I have heard him speaking

:26:48.:26:55.

numerous times, and this is one of the best speeches. He hit on a lot

:26:56.:27:02.

of the issues that he should stay on, I think, whether it is Kate's

:27:03.:27:16.

law. It was definitely one of his best speeches. The thing about it

:27:17.:27:23.

is, he can say all of this right now, then next day he can do or say

:27:24.:27:30.

something that will contradict everything he said did last night.

:27:31.:27:37.

My reservation, my concern, is the unpredictability as far as going

:27:38.:27:41.

back and forth on different things, and just having to deal with that.

:27:42.:27:46.

Are you saying you don't trust what he is saying? He flip-flops too

:27:47.:27:53.

much, which is what Eric was saying? That is my main issue. What I say a

:27:54.:28:02.

lot is that I pray for the sick of the -- for the sake of the country

:28:03.:28:13.

about how he goes back and forth. On immigration specifically, he is

:28:14.:28:16.

clear that he wants a wall. These clear that if you have arrived in

:28:17.:28:20.

the States illegally, you have no right to be there. Where is the room

:28:21.:28:27.

for confusion? As far as immigration, that is the one issue

:28:28.:28:34.

he has built his whole campaign on. It is something I'm not so much

:28:35.:28:40.

wishy-washy on that. It is other policies that he comes out with and

:28:41.:28:47.

that he will have an flip-flopped on, say one thing and then come back

:28:48.:28:54.

and say another thing. I don't know where he stands if he keeps being

:28:55.:29:10.

consistent. He looks at the figure of 11 million illegal immigrants in

:29:11.:29:11.

the United Do you believe he can make good on

:29:12.:29:28.

the sorts of things he is offering? I believe when Donald Trump says he

:29:29.:29:32.

is going to get something done he will get it done and that is a

:29:33.:29:38.

record he has in business. He a businessman and he makes deals and

:29:39.:29:40.

he knows how to get things especially when it comes to

:29:41.:29:44.

building, when it comes to building the wall across the border and

:29:45.:29:46.

having Mexico pay for it, it will get done. Thanks for joining us.

:29:47.:29:56.

A free helpline for women who have used online abortion pills is to be

:29:57.:30:02.

launched across Ireland to help those who can't afford the trip

:30:03.:30:04.

From today, you cannot catch up with BBC programmes on your iPlayer

:30:05.:30:12.

without first buying a TV licence, but how will they know

:30:13.:30:14.

And now a summary of the rest of the day's news.

:30:15.:30:29.

Hospitals in England are making contingency plans for a series

:30:30.:30:32.

of five-day strikes announced by junior doctors.

:30:33.:30:35.

The latest wave of industrial action is due to begin

:30:36.:30:37.

on September the 12th, affecting all forms of care.

:30:38.:30:44.

Similar walkouts are planned each month for the rest of the year.

:30:45.:30:47.

The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has said he still wants to talk.

:30:48.:30:51.

So many lives will be disrupted, around 100,000 operations might be

:30:52.:30:59.

cancelled, maybe a million hospital appointments could end up being

:31:00.:31:03.

postponed, and that will cause absolute misery for many families up

:31:04.:31:07.

and down the country. People will ask themselves, why the BMA, who

:31:08.:31:12.

said this was a good deal, good for doctors and for patients and the

:31:13.:31:17.

NHS, are now saying it is such a bad deal that they want to impose the

:31:18.:31:21.

worst strike in NHS history. Causing absolute devastation for patients.

:31:22.:31:49.

The chief executive of tech giant Apple has described as 'outrageous'

:31:50.:31:51.

a European ruling that the company was given illegal tax

:31:52.:31:54.

The EU's commission overreach in this regard is unbelievable

:31:55.:31:58.

to us, we've never heard anything like it.

:31:59.:32:00.

It is like playing a sports game, winning a championship and later

:32:01.:32:03.

finding out that the goals count differently than you

:32:04.:32:05.

A 23-year-old man is still in police custody after a woman and young boy

:32:06.:32:24.

were killed when a car that was being chased

:32:25.:32:26.

Three girls were also injured in the crash

:32:27.:32:29.

in Penge in south east London yesterday afternoon.

:32:30.:32:31.

The man is under arrest on suspicion of causing death

:32:32.:32:33.

People who don't own a television - but use the BBC iPlayer

:32:34.:32:42.

to catch up on shows - must pay for a TV

:32:43.:32:45.

The penalty is a fine of up to ?1000.

:32:46.:32:53.

We will have more on this very shortly.

:32:54.:32:59.

There's a call today to extend the programme that allows victims

:33:00.:33:01.

of crime to meet those who committed out the offence against them.

:33:02.:33:04.

A report by MPs on the Justice Committee says

:33:05.:33:07.

the provision of such restorative justice schemes is currently

:33:08.:33:09.

The Ministry of Justice says it will consider the report carefully.

:33:10.:33:22.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:33:23.:33:28.

Will's back again now with the sport headlines.

:33:29.:33:38.

A massive, record braking ?1.165 billion spent

:33:39.:33:43.

One of the biggest deals on deadline day saw David Luiz return to Chelsea

:33:44.:33:54.

Tottenham managed to convince Moussa Sissoko to join them instead

:33:55.:34:04.

of Everton in the 11th hour with the French Internnational

:34:05.:34:07.

The British number one Johanna Konta collapsed on court at the US Open

:34:08.:34:18.

but she recovered to win her second round match. Kyle Edman is also into

:34:19.:34:25.

the third round. And Chris Froome moved up to second place in the

:34:26.:34:29.

overall standings in cycling's Tour of Spain. That is the headlines.

:34:30.:34:36.

Later I will be with Britain's first-ever Olympic medallist in the

:34:37.:34:37.

hammer event. There's concern for the safety

:34:38.:34:41.

of women in Northern Ireland who are choosing to terminate

:34:42.:34:43.

their pregnancies illegally using pills bought online

:34:44.:34:45.

because it is much cheaper than travelling abroad

:34:46.:34:47.

for the procedure. The British Pregnancy Advisory

:34:48.:34:49.

Service is launching a free telephone helpline because they're

:34:50.:34:51.

worried women may not seek medical It is illegal to have an abortion

:34:52.:34:53.

in Northern Ireland in most cases, apart from when the mother's life

:34:54.:34:58.

or long term health is put at risk. This puts its laws at odds

:34:59.:35:01.

with the rest of the UK, where abortions have been legal

:35:02.:35:04.

under certain conditions since 1967. Let's talk now to Goretti Horgana,

:35:05.:35:06.

a pro-choice campaigner. Maggie, who joins us on the phone

:35:07.:35:08.

and has asked to remain anonymous, is a young Northern Irish woman

:35:09.:35:12.

who broke the law by taking medically tested abortion

:35:13.:35:14.

pills she bought online. And Mara Clarke, Director

:35:15.:35:17.

of the Abortion Support Network that helps young Irish women

:35:18.:35:21.

who seek an abortion. Maggie, you are talking to us

:35:22.:35:32.

anonymously. Why have you decided to take on abortion pill? When I was

:35:33.:35:42.

22, four years ago, between my third and fourth year at university I

:35:43.:35:46.

discovered I was pregnant, and all I had to live on was my student loan,

:35:47.:35:54.

it is not back great, the summer pavement. I knew I wanted an

:35:55.:36:02.

abortion -- pavement. The only way I could get the abortion was to order

:36:03.:36:08.

pills from the internet. Giving in a country where abortion is illegal in

:36:09.:36:11.

those circumstances, how much did you think about the decision? I

:36:12.:36:20.

thought about the illegality more after I'd done it. After ordering

:36:21.:36:25.

the pills and going through the medical consultation online and

:36:26.:36:29.

waiting for them to arrive, I only worry was, I don't want to be

:36:30.:36:33.

pregnant any more. I was not worried about prison. It is more something I

:36:34.:36:43.

think about now. Will someone come for me question mark will I wake up

:36:44.:36:49.

with the police at my door? -- come for me? At the time I did not want

:36:50.:36:56.

to be pregnant and that was the only thing I thought about. How much did

:36:57.:37:02.

you think about the decision to terminate the pregnancy? I'm just

:37:03.:37:06.

wondering about the background in Northern Ireland, terminating a

:37:07.:37:11.

pregnancy is not something you were able to do openly, how much did that

:37:12.:37:16.

affect your decision-making? In a lot of ways I was lucky because I

:37:17.:37:23.

did tell everyone around me, my friends and family knew. It was not

:37:24.:37:29.

a big secret. When you do tell people they say they know someone

:37:30.:37:35.

who also had an abortion, and so on the surface it seems like a giant

:37:36.:37:39.

secret, but when you scratch it slightly everyone knows someone who

:37:40.:37:44.

has had an abortion. There are concerns about people buying the

:37:45.:37:48.

pills online, it is illegal to buy them online, as we mentioned, and

:37:49.:37:51.

also concerns about what you might be getting. Did you have any issues?

:37:52.:37:57.

After you had taken the pill. Not at all. Currently there are two

:37:58.:38:06.

organisations which provide pills, which are reputable, because I was

:38:07.:38:10.

in consultation with a doctor, they go through your medical history and

:38:11.:38:13.

they asked medical questions before you get them, and when they arrived

:38:14.:38:18.

they came with a subscription signed by a doctor which detailed exactly

:38:19.:38:24.

what they were. And the steps that you had to go through. I went

:38:25.:38:32.

through those exactly. I was quite sure that the pills I ordered were

:38:33.:38:37.

the pills I needed. You mentioned that you spoke to those around you

:38:38.:38:42.

about what you were doing. Did you feel supported? Or did you feel

:38:43.:38:50.

there was more support that you might have wanted? Today there is a

:38:51.:38:55.

helpline which has been set up for people in your position to contact.

:38:56.:39:02.

People were supportive in the way they accepted I'd made a choice but

:39:03.:39:07.

at the same time they did not know what I was going through. Most

:39:08.:39:13.

people at that stage were still travelling to have abortions,

:39:14.:39:18.

talking about taking an abortion pill was not very common. There were

:39:19.:39:25.

medical things I worried about, you bleed a lot when you take these

:39:26.:39:30.

pills and I was thinking, is that too much blood? At what stage do I

:39:31.:39:41.

go to the hospital? I'm glad the helpline is open, because to be able

:39:42.:39:45.

to phone someone and ask that question, that would have made it

:39:46.:39:51.

much easier. I know you by abortion pills for women in the same position

:39:52.:39:58.

as Maggie. Maggie said when she took it it was not very common, but how

:39:59.:40:04.

common is it now? It has become much more common over the last 4-5 years.

:40:05.:40:12.

Probably the situation now, nearly as many women who are choosing to

:40:13.:40:18.

buy the pills online as there are travelling to England for abortions.

:40:19.:40:25.

Is it the easy option now? I think it is an accessible option, everyone

:40:26.:40:31.

would prefer to have a legal abortion, but the reality is, it can

:40:32.:40:42.

cost something between 500 and ?600 to get access to illegal abortion in

:40:43.:40:46.

England, which will be the same abortion they would get by getting

:40:47.:40:51.

the pills online. And that costs may be ?70. A very big difference.

:40:52.:40:59.

There's also something which is not spoken about, additional life costs

:41:00.:41:06.

of travelling to another part of the UK, because in Northern Ireland we

:41:07.:41:10.

are part of the UK, whether we like it or not, and travelling to the UK,

:41:11.:41:15.

to another part, to obtain a medical procedure which is available

:41:16.:41:18.

everywhere else, but that means leaving your home. I live in the

:41:19.:41:23.

North West and I would have to travel 90 minutes to the airport in

:41:24.:41:29.

Belfast and get a plane from there, and it means leaving your children

:41:30.:41:32.

and maybe other caring responsibilities and your work and

:41:33.:41:38.

taking time. The law in Northern Ireland is clear regarding

:41:39.:41:43.

abortions, does the availability of these pills online and the easy

:41:44.:41:52.

access to them and the fact there is now a helpline, does that

:41:53.:41:54.

effectively demolish the laws by the back door? Yes, it does, the law has

:41:55.:42:00.

been shown, because of the technology which is available now,

:42:01.:42:04.

the technology of the pills and also the internet allowing access to

:42:05.:42:10.

those pills, it means in effect the law is being broken on a daily basis

:42:11.:42:15.

which means it should be reformed, any law that is being broken on a

:42:16.:42:18.

daily basis, clearly it is not working. There was a proposal to

:42:19.:42:27.

legalise abortion in cases of fatal fatal abnormality in the Northern

:42:28.:42:32.

Ireland assembly -- feet tall. That was defeated. This is a law which

:42:33.:42:38.

has been looked at recently. Yes, but you have got to remember, our

:42:39.:42:43.

politicians in Northern Ireland are not really elected on social issues

:42:44.:42:48.

overwhelmingly. But they do represent the will of the people?

:42:49.:42:53.

They represent the will of the people in terms of sectarian issues,

:42:54.:43:02.

but whether they are representing us in terms of abortion... This is not

:43:03.:43:08.

on the platform when they are standing? Not at all. Abortion was

:43:09.:43:14.

an issue in the recent assembly elections but it was an issue where

:43:15.:43:19.

people were saying that they wanted change, not an issue... It was not

:43:20.:43:26.

an anti-abortion push, it was very much a pro-choice push, but the

:43:27.:43:33.

politicians pretty much ignored it. You are from the abortion support

:43:34.:43:36.

network, what is your perspective? The helpline is a great thing, we

:43:37.:43:41.

know hundreds of women every year are accessing these pills online

:43:42.:43:46.

which is great and we provide financial support to the people who

:43:47.:43:51.

want to travel over. It can cost between ?400 and ?2000 to travel

:43:52.:43:56.

over depending on the state of pregnancy. A couple of things we

:43:57.:44:00.

want to make clear, these pills are very safe, the World Health

:44:01.:44:04.

Organisation has these pills on the essential medicines list, even

:44:05.:44:08.

outside of a clinical setting, and it is not just young women taking

:44:09.:44:12.

these pills, we have had calls from people ranging from 13 up to 52,

:44:13.:44:19.

everyone gets pregnant and these pills are an option for anyone who

:44:20.:44:23.

gets pregnant. Anybody who is getting them, they are breaking the

:44:24.:44:30.

law? Absolutely. There was a case where a woman from Belfast was given

:44:31.:44:34.

a suspended sentence for doing it. There's a lot to take into

:44:35.:44:38.

consideration. Making it against the law does not stop it, it is not

:44:39.:44:44.

against the law to travel, but women with this cost to travel over can

:44:45.:44:51.

travel over, but women who do not have that money, though the stories

:44:52.:44:57.

we have heard -- the stories we have heard through our helpline, before

:44:58.:45:03.

they found out about these pills, it was about drinking bleach, scoring

:45:04.:45:08.

heroine, because they thought it might trigger a miscarriage, so

:45:09.:45:11.

let's not pretend that making abortion illegal makes this utopia

:45:12.:45:16.

where a abortion doesn't happen. The fact women have the option of

:45:17.:45:21.

getting pills that the world health organisation says are safe, it says,

:45:22.:45:30.

if you take these pills, if you are scared, yes, you bleed a lot, but

:45:31.:45:37.

how much is too much? Now you can call this helpline and find out the

:45:38.:45:40.

answer to this question, but we still feel the law needs to change.

:45:41.:45:48.

Some women do not know they are pregnant until ten weeks after

:45:49.:45:52.

pregnancy. We had a woman who found out she was pregnant after 24 weeks,

:45:53.:45:56.

and she had literally minutes to make arrangements to come over here

:45:57.:46:02.

to get a procedure which cost ?1350, plus flights.

:46:03.:46:07.

Maggie, a quick thought from new - if the pill had not been available,

:46:08.:46:13.

what would you have done? If it had not been a vulnerable -- had not

:46:14.:46:22.

been available, I would be dead. I would not have known what to do.

:46:23.:46:27.

Tank of joining us. That is Maggie, who has been talking us anonymously.

:46:28.:46:34.

We invited someone from Northern Ireland's Department of Health and a

:46:35.:46:36.

partner justice onto the programme to talk about the country's laws,

:46:37.:46:38.

but neither accepted. The Department of Health did send us

:46:39.:46:41.

this statement: The Department of Health is aware of this

:46:42.:46:43.

and would remind members of the public that taking medicines

:46:44.:46:46.

obtained through unregulated sources can put their health

:46:47.:46:48.

at serious risk. Prescription-only medicines should

:46:49.:46:50.

only be taken when prescribed by an appropriate practitioner

:46:51.:46:52.

and should be obtained from a registered pharmacy

:46:53.:46:53.

or other regulated source. The boss of Apple says

:46:54.:47:00.

the European Commission's ruling that the tech company,

:47:01.:47:05.

should pay ?11 billion of back taxes to Ireland

:47:06.:47:07.

is political and unfair. We look into the row over its Irish

:47:08.:47:11.

tax status. People who don't own a television -

:47:12.:47:15.

but use the BBC iPlayer to catch up on shows -

:47:16.:47:18.

must pay for a TV Until now, only people who watched

:47:19.:47:21.

programmes as they were being broadcast needed

:47:22.:47:24.

to pay the annual fee. Viewers will be asked to confirm

:47:25.:47:26.

that they have a licence - otherwise they risk prosecution

:47:27.:47:29.

and a ?1,000 fine. Our Media and Arts Correspondent

:47:30.:47:31.

David Sillito is with me now. How is it going to be monitored? An

:47:32.:47:43.

interesting question. At the moment, until yesterday, you didn't have two

:47:44.:47:51.

get a license if you were on a catch-up service, or downloading

:47:52.:47:54.

programmes. That was considered to be a loophole, so it has come to an

:47:55.:48:01.

end. If you had been using the iPlayer as a live service, watching

:48:02.:48:06.

this life, for instance, you would have had to pay the licence fee. The

:48:07.:48:11.

question about it at the moment is, how will anyone know whether or not

:48:12.:48:16.

you're watching iPlayer? There have been all sorts of stories over the

:48:17.:48:20.

summer, for instance, talking about detector vans that might be able to

:48:21.:48:25.

sniff your Wi-Fi. There was a statement from the BBC saying, no,

:48:26.:48:30.

they are not going to be part outside of your house monitoring

:48:31.:48:33.

your Wi-Fi, but they do say, and they have issued a statement, they

:48:34.:48:38.

have methods, just as they have methods of working out whether

:48:39.:48:42.

you're watching an ordinary television, that will help work out

:48:43.:48:50.

why your watch -- whether you're watching the iPlayer. Other awful

:48:51.:48:59.

lot of people are watching iPlayer via a sky or BT service, so it is

:49:00.:49:07.

not clear how that would take place, or for legally they are actually

:49:08.:49:12.

allowed to do. TV detector vans - have never seen any evidence of

:49:13.:49:16.

exactly how they operate, and it has not come to court as far as I know.

:49:17.:49:20.

I'm sure someone will say they have found some evidence in court, but I

:49:21.:49:27.

have never heard of it. There are suspicions that there are things out

:49:28.:49:32.

there monitoring, and presumably that has an impact. The most likely

:49:33.:49:36.

method is, if you don't have a license, they know the households

:49:37.:49:38.

that don't have them, they will receive a letter, and I think that

:49:39.:49:47.

is more likely. It has changed today. If you download any BBC TV

:49:48.:49:52.

content or watch it, you will have to pay the licence fee. However, if

:49:53.:49:59.

you are only using the iPlayer radio, and no TV content, you still

:50:00.:50:04.

don't have to pay. If you are downloading third-party material,

:50:05.:50:10.

from other broadcasters, you don't have to pay. You can't say that you

:50:11.:50:17.

are watching television but not the BBC, because if you're watching a TV

:50:18.:50:21.

service on a television, you still have to pay. It is complicated. The

:50:22.:50:26.

essences, if you have a television and you watch any BBC TV content,

:50:27.:50:32.

you have to pay from now. Or if you are watching with a computer rather

:50:33.:50:34.

than a television. Renate Samson is the Chief Executive

:50:35.:50:37.

of the Big Brother Watch, an organisation that

:50:38.:50:39.

campaigns for the protection Thank you for joining us. The BBC

:50:40.:50:50.

says it won't be monitoring Wi-Fi, but what are your concerns? First, I

:50:51.:50:54.

don't have a clue what they are going to be doing to determine who

:50:55.:51:01.

is and is not watching live iPlayer on a device when they shouldn't be,

:51:02.:51:04.

and whether they have a TV licence. If this came into force today --

:51:05.:51:10.

this came into force today and none of us know what is going on of what

:51:11.:51:15.

the BBC are playing at. What could be done? That is the big question. I

:51:16.:51:21.

have no idea. Under existing law, the regulatory investigative Powers

:51:22.:51:31.

act, they can use systems to monitor people who don't pay their licence.

:51:32.:51:37.

There is a new surveillance bill being discussed now and there is no

:51:38.:51:42.

mention of the BBC in there. Law enforcement are having to be

:51:43.:51:44.

incredibly open and transparent about what they are doing. If the

:51:45.:51:50.

BBC intends to use intrusive surveillance powers to monitor our

:51:51.:51:54.

rector video online, they need to be more upfront than they are now. If

:51:55.:52:05.

it boils down to checking out which households do have a license and

:52:06.:52:08.

which don't and writing to the ones who don't ask them to explain

:52:09.:52:13.

themselves, is that OK? Of course. A letter through the door, there is

:52:14.:52:21.

nothing intrusive about that. But how are they going to know that you

:52:22.:52:26.

are the household that is worthy of the letter? 94% of people pay their

:52:27.:52:33.

licence. Will we snoop on 100% of people, 94% of whom are abiding by

:52:34.:52:38.

the law? Add don't think that is particularly proportionate, do you?

:52:39.:52:43.

-- I don't think. Thank you for joining us.

:52:44.:52:45.

The boss of Apple says it's "unfair" that the firm's been ordered

:52:46.:52:48.

to pay $11 billion in back taxes to Ireland.

:52:49.:52:51.

Tim Cook told RTE Radio he's confident the European Commission's

:52:52.:52:53.

Our business correspondent Andy Verity is here with more.

:52:54.:53:02.

What has he said, and the? The ruling says they owe $11 billion.

:53:03.:53:19.

The claim that Apple has had a special tax till, you have to be

:53:20.:53:22.

careful there, because it is not really denying that Apple has paid

:53:23.:53:31.

tiny rates of effective tax, at 0.005% according to the European

:53:32.:53:35.

Commission. He says it is unfair unprecedented and it reverses the

:53:36.:53:41.

tax law that existed in the past. Other people have criticised some of

:53:42.:53:46.

what he is saying, saying if you look at what Apple is talking about,

:53:47.:53:49.

they have set up special arrangements. They have a

:53:50.:53:54.

labyrinthine tax structure, creating all kinds of subsidiaries will stop

:53:55.:53:57.

it had to be explained by flow charts to a Senate committee, so it

:53:58.:54:03.

is not simple. The suggestion from critics is that Apple are being a

:54:04.:54:06.

bit indignant about this. Perhaps they feel entitled. If you faced a

:54:07.:54:15.

bill for 13 billion euros, you might feel indignant. But they say they

:54:16.:54:20.

have set up this structure, according to critics. Let's hear

:54:21.:54:28.

from Apple. It is maddening and disappointing. It is clear that this

:54:29.:54:35.

comes from a political place. It has no basis in fact or in law.

:54:36.:54:42.

Unfortunately, it is one of those things we have to work through. I'm

:54:43.:54:53.

sure your listeners can relate to this - when you're accused of doing

:54:54.:54:58.

something that is so foreign to your values, it brings out an outrage in

:54:59.:55:10.

new, and that is how we feel. Apple has always been about doing the

:55:11.:55:15.

right thing, never the easy thing. You know, we had a very difficult

:55:16.:55:22.

thing in the beginning of this year with fighting the US Government over

:55:23.:55:28.

the privacy and security of our customers. That wasn't easy to do,

:55:29.:55:35.

but it was the right thing to do. To your mind, has apple done anything

:55:36.:55:39.

wrong here? Does Apple have anything to apologise for? No. We haven't

:55:40.:55:45.

done anything wrong, and the Irish Government hasn't done anything

:55:46.:55:50.

wrong. That is his view, of course, but the EU commission would say

:55:51.:55:55.

there is a basis on law - it is the law on illegal state aid, and

:55:56.:55:58.

according to the commission, Apple has broken out. Quickly,

:55:59.:56:05.

manufacturing figures this morning. Yes, the absence of gloomy

:56:06.:56:09.

post-Brexit data, we have had some, but manufacturing in July was

:56:10.:56:14.

sharply down, one of the biggest dips in manufacturing output that we

:56:15.:56:17.

have seen in awhile, as measured by this index. It has bounced back, the

:56:18.:56:24.

biggest bounce in 25 years August. That suggests there is a stimulating

:56:25.:56:28.

effect on the weak pound. Because the pound is weak, people from other

:56:29.:56:33.

countries who want to buy goods in pounds are finding that it is more

:56:34.:56:36.

competitive than that maybe helping. Thank you, Andy.

:56:37.:56:45.

Hospitals in England are drawing up contingency plans for a further

:56:46.:56:53.

junior doctors' strike. Give us your views on that. Let's catch up on the

:56:54.:57:04.

latest weather. I want to take you further afield, where we have

:57:05.:57:07.

violent weather on the menu over the next few days. We are keeping an eye

:57:08.:57:21.

on this tropical storm. Colossal amounts of rain, damaging winds

:57:22.:57:27.

pushing up through is this -- pushing up through Florida. Over the

:57:28.:57:34.

next several days, major impact on the eastern seaboard. The 1st of

:57:35.:57:38.

September, mists and mellow fruitfulness. A lovely shot taken by

:57:39.:57:45.

one of our weather watchers in Somerset. Some cloud and patchy rain

:57:46.:57:51.

pushing across Northern Ireland, spreading its way east into Scotland

:57:52.:57:56.

as we go through the afternoon. A bit of a North- South split. Lots of

:57:57.:58:01.

England and Wales will have a delightful day. Here is 4pm. The

:58:02.:58:07.

temperatures are doing very well, into the low- mid 20s. It should

:58:08.:58:12.

stay fine for the cricket at Headingley. Some rain in Northern

:58:13.:58:17.

Ireland and Scotland. It will come and go, not a complete wash-out. The

:58:18.:58:21.

most persistent rain will be the further west you go in Scotland.

:58:22.:58:29.

That rain will move towards the south-east. A role reversal

:58:30.:58:34.

tomorrow. Those who have sunshine today will have cloudy skies

:58:35.:58:38.

tomorrow. Scotland and Northern Ireland, the more north-western

:58:39.:58:41.

parts of England and Wales, much brighter, with sunshine and a few

:58:42.:58:46.

showers. For the weekend, it will be mixed. Some wet weather, for sure,

:58:47.:58:51.

for just about all of us, but some sunshine as well. A complicated what

:58:52.:58:56.

the picture -- a complicated weather picture. There will be a lot of

:58:57.:59:04.

cloud and rain. It will be pretty wet on Saturday, France pushing in

:59:05.:59:07.

from the West after a dry start. Central and southern areas could see

:59:08.:59:12.

the wettest weather. Dry weather for the North. It looks as though the

:59:13.:59:16.

wettest weather will slide to the east overnight on Saturday. I am

:59:17.:59:20.

hopeful that on Sunday we could see some reasonable sunshine.

:59:21.:59:26.

Temperatures are roughly where they should be - high teens low 20s. We

:59:27.:59:36.

will keep an eye on that stop. Hello it's Thursday,

:59:37.:59:40.

it's 10 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme

:59:41.:59:42.

if you've just joined us. Strikes and more strikes -

:59:43.:59:44.

how will junior doctors' plans for a wave of five-day

:59:45.:59:48.

walkouts affect patients - Around 100,000 operations may be

:59:49.:59:50.

cancelled, maybe a million hospital appointments could end up

:59:51.:59:57.

being postponed and that is going to cause absolute misery

:59:58.:00:00.

for many, many families up We're devastated that the government

:00:01.:00:03.

hasn't listened to junior doctors, to concerns we still have,

:00:04.:00:21.

to our rejection of the contract and we've been left

:00:22.:00:23.

with no other choice. Should all victims of crime get

:00:24.:00:25.

the chance to meet the person We hear from a woman whose son James

:00:26.:00:28.

was killed 5 years ago - They will be with us together in the

:00:29.:00:32.

studio. And fury and despair over the plight

:00:33.:00:39.

of African elephants - as it's revealed poachers have

:00:40.:00:42.

killed nearly 150,000 in seven years - we find out how a team in Botswana

:00:43.:00:45.

is trying to protect them. That most amazing noise is the sound

:00:46.:00:56.

of a snoring elephant. They had to keep his trunk open throughout so he

:00:57.:01:02.

could breathe while under the influence of the drugs.

:01:03.:01:10.

Over to the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:01:11.:01:14.

Hospitals in England are making contingency plans for a series

:01:15.:01:17.

of five-day strikes announced by junior doctors.

:01:18.:01:21.

The latest wave of industrial action is due to begin

:01:22.:01:24.

on September 12th, affecting all forms of care.

:01:25.:01:27.

Similar walkouts are planned each month for the rest of the year.

:01:28.:01:30.

The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has said he still wants to talk.

:01:31.:01:35.

This time, hospital managements have had a lot less notice than they did

:01:36.:01:47.

when junior doctors in England last stage walk-outs in April.

:01:48.:01:52.

They will have to postpone thousands of routine operations and plan

:01:53.:01:55.

rotas to allow consultants to cover their striking junior

:01:56.:01:57.

The latest round of walk-outs will take place on five consecutive

:01:58.:02:01.

days, rather than two, which will make it the longest such

:02:02.:02:04.

A five-day strike will be really tough for us.

:02:05.:02:07.

I think it will be particularly tough for our patients

:02:08.:02:10.

because we would estimate at least 13,000 people across the country

:02:11.:02:13.

will have their procedures cancelled or rearranged.

:02:14.:02:16.

Strike action affecting routine care began in January this year

:02:17.:02:21.

but in April the first all-out strike by a group of doctors

:02:22.:02:24.

Then talks resumed and a deal was done between the BMA

:02:25.:02:29.

and the government, but in July, BMA members rejected

:02:30.:02:31.

No doctors want to take industrial action, but the silence

:02:32.:02:39.

from the government, the lack of a response

:02:40.:02:42.

and the rejection of the contract by junior doctors has meant that,

:02:43.:02:45.

really, we were left with no other choice today than to take

:02:46.:02:47.

So many lives are going to be disrupted.

:02:48.:02:56.

Around 100,000 operations might be cancelled, maybe a million

:02:57.:02:58.

hospital appointments could end up being postponed

:02:59.:03:00.

and that is going to cause absolute misery for many, many families up

:03:01.:03:03.

People will ask themselves why the BMA, who said

:03:04.:03:09.

this was a good deal, good for doctors, good for patients,

:03:10.:03:12.

good for the NHS, are now saying it is such a bad deal

:03:13.:03:16.

that they want to impose the worst strike in NHS history.

:03:17.:03:18.

With winter approaching, NHS finances under pressure

:03:19.:03:21.

and patient care targets being missed, there is growing

:03:22.:03:24.

frustration across the service at the long-running dispute over

:03:25.:03:30.

weekend pay and working conditions is not resolved and more

:03:31.:03:33.

The US Presidential candidate Donald Trump has insisted that

:03:34.:03:42.

Mexico will pay to build a border wall between the two countries.

:03:43.:03:58.

He set out a hard-hitting plan to curb illegal immigration.

:03:59.:04:00.

He restated plans to build a border wall with Mexico,

:04:01.:04:03.

hours after appearing to be more conciliatory in a meeting

:04:04.:04:05.

Addressing a rally in Phoenix, Arizona, the Republican candidate

:04:06.:04:08.

insisted that Mexico would pay for its construction.

:04:09.:04:10.

The chief executive of tech giant Apple has described as 'outrageous'

:04:11.:04:13.

a European ruling that the company was given illegal tax

:04:14.:04:15.

Tim Cook said the ruling - which says Apple must pay 13 billion

:04:16.:04:19.

euros in back taxes - was driven by politics.

:04:20.:04:21.

He told the Irish broadcaster, RTE, that Apple pays a 'reasonable

:04:22.:04:24.

A 23-year-old man is still in police custody after a woman and young boy

:04:25.:04:30.

were killed when a car that was being chased

:04:31.:04:32.

Three girls were also injured in the crash in Penge in south east

:04:33.:04:41.

The man is under arrest on suspicion of causing death

:04:42.:04:45.

People who don't own a television - but use the BBC iPlayer

:04:46.:04:58.

to catch up on shows - must pay for a TV

:04:59.:05:01.

Until now, only people who watched programmes

:05:02.:05:11.

as they were being broadcast needed to pay the annual fee.

:05:12.:05:14.

Now viewers will be asked to confirm that they have a licence -

:05:15.:05:17.

otherwise they risk prosecution and a ?1000 fine.

:05:18.:05:19.

There's a call today to extend the programme that allows victims

:05:20.:05:22.

of crime to meet those who committed out the offence against them.

:05:23.:05:25.

A report by MPs on the Justice Committee says

:05:26.:05:27.

the provision of such restorative justice schemes is currently

:05:28.:05:29.

The Ministry of Justice says it will consider the report carefully.

:05:30.:05:33.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:05:34.:05:37.

use the hashtag Victoria Live and if you text, you will be charged

:05:38.:05:40.

I would love to know what you think about the idea of victims of crime

:05:41.:05:46.

meeting those who have actually carried out the crime. I will be

:05:47.:05:51.

joined by one mother whose son was killed, and by the man who killed

:05:52.:05:56.

her son. They are talking about why they decided to meet up a few years

:05:57.:06:03.

after the death of James. Do stay with me for that.

:06:04.:06:06.

Will Perry has the sport now and is joined by somebody who made

:06:07.:06:09.

history in Rio a couple of weeks ago.

:06:10.:06:11.

I'm joined by someone who won a bronze medal in the hammer event for

:06:12.:06:22.

Team GB, Sophie Hitchon. The first British medal in the event and the

:06:23.:06:28.

first British medal in the field since Fatima Whitbread through the

:06:29.:06:33.

javelin in 1988. We have had some great people in the past to have

:06:34.:06:39.

been unlucky with medals, but it is great to get those records out of

:06:40.:06:48.

the box. What was it like? It was so dramatic you were in fifth place,

:06:49.:06:52.

and it was your final throw. What were you thinking? You had given up

:06:53.:07:04.

already and it was just adrenaline? I had been training very well going

:07:05.:07:07.

into it and I kind of knew that I could throw the distance and if I

:07:08.:07:13.

put my technique together I would be in with a shout of a medal. We can

:07:14.:07:19.

have a look. Incredible. It doesn't get old. Hamley times have you seen

:07:20.:07:27.

that? -- how many. Many times. It doesn't get old. Field athletes

:07:28.:07:32.

don't really come into their own until you are in your 30s, so you

:07:33.:07:36.

have miles ahead of you because you are 25. Yes, the woman who won this

:07:37.:07:44.

year is around 31, I think, so with more training in the next four

:07:45.:07:47.

years, I'm looking forward to Tokyo and maybe another Olympics after

:07:48.:07:54.

that. Why are there so few British women involved in field events?

:07:55.:08:01.

Britain is quite a bit smaller than many countries. You have had that

:08:02.:08:09.

quite a bit since you came back, and you used to be a ballet dancer and

:08:10.:08:17.

you imagine that hammer throwers are huge. Everyone is different. But I

:08:18.:08:23.

think in the next few years hopefully we can inspire a few more

:08:24.:08:27.

people to take up the hammer and even other field events. I want to

:08:28.:08:33.

have a go, I thought you were going to bring it in. What about the

:08:34.:08:43.

homecoming? You went from Rio to Poland for another event? Yes, after

:08:44.:08:49.

the competition I did not have much downtime and I was doing many

:08:50.:08:52.

different things, getting myself out there a little bit. It was great.

:08:53.:08:59.

I'm going back to Burnley next week and everyone there is so proud. I

:09:00.:09:06.

heard your dad on the radio and he said he had to watch it on the BBC

:09:07.:09:10.

sport website, watching you win the medal. Incredible. They were

:09:11.:09:15.

watching at home and they were really proud. It was great to have

:09:16.:09:22.

that support from people at home. Congratulations, and we will see you

:09:23.:09:29.

in Tokyo? Definitely. That is Sophie Hitchon with a bronze medal around

:09:30.:09:33.

her neck. I never get sick of seeing those medals.

:09:34.:09:41.

And now the seemingly never-ending dispute over junior doctors

:09:42.:09:44.

contracts rolls on. Hospitals in England are making

:09:45.:09:45.

contingency plans for a series of five-day strikes

:09:46.:09:47.

announced by junior doctors. Before we get into discussing

:09:48.:09:49.

the latest action, let's have a reminder of how

:09:50.:09:51.

we got to this point. Junior doctors have taken part

:09:52.:09:53.

in six days of strikes this year, Industrial action was put on hold

:09:54.:09:56.

in May when the two sides got back round the table

:09:57.:10:00.

at conciliation service Acas. That resulted in a new contract

:10:01.:10:03.

being agreed, which BMA leaders But when it was put to the vote,

:10:04.:10:06.

58% of medics rejected it, prompting the resignation

:10:07.:10:13.

of the BMA junior doctor leader Johann Malawana,

:10:14.:10:16.

and ministers to once again announce they would impose

:10:17.:10:18.

the new terms and conditions. The strikes will take place

:10:19.:10:24.

from 08:00 BST to 17:00 BST from 12th to 16th September,

:10:25.:10:26.

with more dates to follow. I asked the health editor how much

:10:27.:10:36.

support there is for the latest strike. Some junior doctors might

:10:37.:10:43.

feel... Given 42% voted in favour of the contract, some of them might

:10:44.:10:46.

feel by not sure if they want to carry on with this action. Equally,

:10:47.:10:50.

other junior doctors were adamant they think this government is wrong

:10:51.:10:54.

to impose a contract and wrong to talk about a seven NHS in England

:10:55.:11:00.

without showing how it can be funded and saying junior doctors work at

:11:01.:11:03.

weekends already, so that is not really relevant to the argument, the

:11:04.:11:06.

seven days. What is the sticking point? So many different issues, but

:11:07.:11:13.

on the contract is over the issue of how you when you break doctors at

:11:14.:11:18.

weekends for working at weekends and the BMA says there are issues over

:11:19.:11:23.

how you look interests of women and part-time workers coming back into

:11:24.:11:26.

the workforce, and they feel they have not had enough reassurances on

:11:27.:11:30.

the seven-day NHS. The government says it has made concessions already

:11:31.:11:34.

and this was agreed before, only to be thrown out by the members, so the

:11:35.:11:35.

dispute continues. What kind of Russia does this but on

:11:36.:11:44.

the house secretary Jeremy Hunt? -- what kind of pressure does this put

:11:45.:11:51.

on the Health Secretary. The rhetoric from the Health Secretary

:11:52.:11:56.

is unflinching and he is of the view that the Conservatives had a

:11:57.:11:59.

manifesto commitment to a seven-day NHS and they have a mandate to

:12:00.:12:03.

deliver that. In terms of the pressure he is under, what is

:12:04.:12:08.

interesting about his position, he is conscious and he is making the

:12:09.:12:12.

argument around what he sees as the divided politics of the BMA, the

:12:13.:12:18.

fact that there are a good number of junior doctors who are willing to

:12:19.:12:22.

accept the deal that was on the table, and the negotiators for the

:12:23.:12:28.

BMA made the case that this was a deal which was worth accepting and

:12:29.:12:32.

there is a potential division there which he might politically exploit.

:12:33.:12:37.

Secondly, rewind the clock, there was a change of Prime Minister, and

:12:38.:12:43.

Jeremy Hunt, it was widely thought, might not continue as the Health

:12:44.:12:47.

Secretary, and when he turned up at Downing Street to see what was going

:12:48.:12:51.

to happen to him, the Badgley normally wears under his suit which

:12:52.:12:58.

says NHS was not their -- the badge he normally wears. Some thought that

:12:59.:13:04.

might mean he would shuffle into another job, but he has carried on

:13:05.:13:09.

as the Health Secretary, and at the meeting when he was reappointed the

:13:10.:13:13.

dispute was discussed between him and the new Prime Minister Theresa

:13:14.:13:16.

May and there was a commitment that he wanted to carry on with the job

:13:17.:13:20.

and that the government would remain committed to the idea of the

:13:21.:13:23.

seven-day NHS. From that perspective he has had a turbo-charged sense of

:13:24.:13:30.

his political mission reinforced with the new Prime Minister in

:13:31.:13:34.

Dawson back, and we will hear from Theresa May in the next hour or so

:13:35.:13:39.

-- endorsing that. From that perspective politically, Jeremy Hunt

:13:40.:13:46.

will feel he was endorsed by the previous Prime Minister and now the

:13:47.:13:48.

new one, as well. Thanks for joining us. No one from the Department of

:13:49.:13:55.

Health or the BMA was able to talk to us this morning.

:13:56.:14:00.

But I'm joined by Chris Hopson from NHS Providers,

:14:01.:14:02.

We are joined by also a chief executive of national voices who

:14:03.:14:12.

works with patients to improve health care standards, Jeremy

:14:13.:14:17.

Taylor. Chris, Jeremy Hunt says 100,000 bombers will have to be

:14:18.:14:21.

cancelled, would you agree with that? -- 100,000 appointments. We

:14:22.:14:28.

have been given precious little notice of the fact that we are about

:14:29.:14:31.

to go into five days of strikes which is unprecedented in the

:14:32.:14:36.

history of the NHS and we are one have 12 days to prepare, so the

:14:37.:14:41.

people that we represent, hospital leaders, they are saying that this

:14:42.:14:45.

is a difficult situation because it is a long strike and because they

:14:46.:14:49.

have been given so little notice of the fact it was coming. How do you

:14:50.:14:55.

prepare? As as happened with previous strike days, the hospital

:14:56.:14:58.

leaders will have conversations with the junior doctors to assess how

:14:59.:15:05.

many of them will actually go out on strike and then talk to consultants

:15:06.:15:09.

and other medical staff to see how available they will be and they will

:15:10.:15:13.

try and fill as many gaps as possible, but the reality is, the

:15:14.:15:18.

last time we had three strikes, it was a two-day strike and we had

:15:19.:15:24.

100,000 cancelled operations and I think a million Dost outpatient

:15:25.:15:27.

appointments, so what we are saying, this will be very disruptive --

:15:28.:15:34.

lost. The last time I visited a hospital I was talking to a taxi

:15:35.:15:37.

driver who was taking me there and he explained he was one of those

:15:38.:15:41.

patients who in the previous strike had actually missed his operation

:15:42.:15:45.

and he was explaining the consequences that had gone through

:15:46.:15:50.

for him personally in terms of the arrangements he had put in place, a

:15:51.:15:55.

lot of time and effort, to look after dogs and the house when he was

:15:56.:16:00.

away, and he was in a huge amount of pain and he was deeply frustrated,

:16:01.:16:05.

to be frank, about the fact he was going to have to live with the pain

:16:06.:16:08.

longer because they were going on strike.

:16:09.:16:15.

You said that the strike led to a hundred operations being cancelled.

:16:16.:16:27.

Again, it is difficult to know. Because they are shorter strikes. On

:16:28.:16:31.

the other hand, we have less time to prepare. There will be a loss of --

:16:32.:16:37.

a lot of work being done in the next few days to work out what the impact

:16:38.:16:41.

will be, but particularly because it is a five-day strike and at short

:16:42.:16:45.

notice there will be a significant impact. Jeremy Chardy, what are your

:16:46.:16:50.

concerns about the impact on patients? There will be cancelled

:16:51.:17:02.

operations and missed appointments. People will suffer pain, discomfort,

:17:03.:17:08.

anxiety, worry, inconvenience. This is not a good thing for patients.

:17:09.:17:12.

Strikes are not good, and they will have an impact on patients. Chris's

:17:13.:17:19.

members did a sterling job in minimising the disruption the last

:17:20.:17:24.

time. The rest of the health care workforce rallied round. NHS

:17:25.:17:27.

managers did a fantastic job to organise services to minimise

:17:28.:17:31.

disruption, but inevitably there will be disruption and it has a bad

:17:32.:17:36.

impact on patients. If the doctors want to make a point of air strike,

:17:37.:17:41.

it needs to have an impact. It will have a bad impact on patients. We

:17:42.:17:48.

need people to get back around the table, compromise is hard but it is

:17:49.:17:53.

better than striking. We're talking about the number of operations

:17:54.:17:55.

cancelled, but what about appointments, which in many cases

:17:56.:17:59.

people will have been waiting for for a long time? I don't want to

:18:00.:18:05.

bandy around statistics, because I don't have any to ban the run. While

:18:06.:18:11.

there is uncertainty, we haven't had a five-day stoppage before. What we

:18:12.:18:17.

can be sure about is that there will be a substantial number of planned

:18:18.:18:19.

operations and appointments that will have to be postponed, so I

:18:20.:18:25.

don't have exact numbers, but we can be pretty sure that it will cause

:18:26.:18:29.

disruption. What type of care will be affected? Presumably, it comes

:18:30.:18:37.

down to who is. Write the specific specialities of medics who will be

:18:38.:18:43.

available. The hospital has three different things it does. It has

:18:44.:18:48.

accident and emergency departments, where there is a strong focus on

:18:49.:18:52.

ensuring that if there is a genuine accident or emergency, that will be

:18:53.:18:56.

looked after. In the last strike, people were at the front door to

:18:57.:19:00.

say, if you are not urgent, go to the GP, for example. Secondly, there

:19:01.:19:11.

will be a the there -- there will be elective operations that will be

:19:12.:19:15.

cancelled because there will be insufficient staff to conduct those.

:19:16.:19:20.

Hopefully be less urgent ones will be postponed. The third thing is

:19:21.:19:26.

that outpatient appointments, a follow-up appointment, for example,

:19:27.:19:30.

because there won't be enough people those will be disrupted. We will

:19:31.:19:35.

concentrate on providing the right quality of accident and emergency

:19:36.:19:38.

service, but as was discovered last time, what will be particularly hit

:19:39.:19:44.

will be elective operations, and then outpatient appointments. These

:19:45.:19:49.

elective operations get scheduled sometime in advance. When do they

:19:50.:19:52.

get slotted in once they have been cancelled? Does everybody get

:19:53.:19:57.

shunted and have to wait longer? Decisions will be made on the basis

:19:58.:20:01.

of clinical need. Effectively, if there is someone who cannot wait,

:20:02.:20:05.

they will be done as quickly as possible. If there are people for

:20:06.:20:11.

whom perhaps a four-week wait will be slightly less of an impact, they

:20:12.:20:18.

might wait longer. Again, all I am saying, Joanna, is we are talking

:20:19.:20:22.

about 1 million patients coming through our hospitals every 36

:20:23.:20:30.

hours. It is a finely honed, detailed, complex operation to get

:20:31.:20:36.

that number of people through an already overstretched health

:20:37.:20:41.

service. I cannot really tell you how much disruption it causes a

:20:42.:20:50.

whole bunch, 750,000 staff, working in those organisations to have to

:20:51.:20:54.

replan something that has been planned extremely carefully over a

:20:55.:20:58.

long period of time. It is not just the disruption to patients that is

:20:59.:21:02.

important, but also the fact that it disrupts what is already a service

:21:03.:21:07.

that is really creaking at the edges in terms of the volume. You only get

:21:08.:21:16.

that volume through by having slick processes that gets everybody where

:21:17.:21:19.

they are meant to be at the right time. Do you understand how strongly

:21:20.:21:26.

junior doctors feel? Yes, of course, but a couple of points. The

:21:27.:21:34.

Government and NHS employers have made 73 concessions over the last...

:21:35.:21:39.

They dismiss that and say it is semantics. Of course, junior doctors

:21:40.:21:45.

have a vital role to play in the NHS. They do a really important

:21:46.:21:50.

role, and any group of workers having their contracts change should

:21:51.:21:53.

have the right to negotiate those changes. We have been at this for

:21:54.:21:59.

three years, and I think as your introduction clearly pointed out,

:22:00.:22:05.

the BMA themselves agreed a contract in May, having sat down and

:22:06.:22:10.

discussed this for over two years. They said, yes, fine, this is the

:22:11.:22:15.

contract we are prepared to accept. In the end, industrial disputes have

:22:16.:22:18.

to be ended. You cannot carry on disrupting public services,

:22:19.:22:23.

particularly one as important as the NHS. Finally, it is paid for by the

:22:24.:22:30.

taxpayer and paid for by patients who are going to be seriously

:22:31.:22:36.

inconvenienced by the strike. Chris Robson and Jeremy Taylor, thank you

:22:37.:22:37.

both. How much strength does it take to

:22:38.:22:46.

meet your son's Keller. We look at the real-life impact of what is

:22:47.:22:51.

called restorative justice, with a victim and an offender.

:22:52.:22:55.

When animal lover Laura Inglis moved to a small town

:22:56.:22:57.

in southern Spain for work, she was heartbroken at the condition

:22:58.:23:00.

Unable to leave them behind, she spent her life savings

:23:01.:23:04.

to rescue 41 of the animals, shipping them from the Costa del Sol

:23:05.:23:07.

back to her mother Norma's house in Edinburgh.

:23:08.:23:09.

And this is Diablo, this means devil in Spanish.

:23:10.:23:42.

Initially when I moved to Spain I saw the condition of some

:23:43.:23:45.

of the street cats and couldn't stand by and do nothing.

:23:46.:23:49.

When you told your mum there were going to be 41 cats

:23:50.:23:52.

coming back to her house, what did she say?

:23:53.:23:54.

I think she's so pleased to have me back and she's very,

:23:55.:24:07.

very supportive, totally supportive, but I think she's always got my best

:24:08.:24:11.

She knows how much I spend on the cats and how much

:24:12.:24:17.

I've cashed in shares, I've cashed in endowments

:24:18.:24:28.

on my house but money's not important when there's more

:24:29.:24:30.

You must spend a fortune on cat food.

:24:31.:24:37.

Plus on top of that, we've got vet bills and all the deworming.

:24:38.:24:51.

We have about 25 or so in the garage.

:24:52.:24:53.

All the pillows here that are on the beds here

:24:54.:25:05.

so that they can all have them and it just keeps everything clean.

:25:06.:25:08.

I'll go through four a day, so 40 litres per day.

:25:09.:25:19.

So that's just for a day there?

:25:20.:25:25.

But yeah, yeah, there are some that I will not part with.

:25:26.:25:47.

What is it about cats that is so special that you love?

:25:48.:25:52.

They just give you so much attention, so much affection

:25:53.:25:54.

And do you mind putting your social life

:25:55.:25:59.

To be honest, some of my cats, most of my cats, they're so good company,

:26:00.:26:10.

when I'm feeling down, they cheer me up.

:26:11.:26:15.

Yes, for each and every single one of them and they're

:26:16.:26:22.

all Spanish cats - Espana.

:26:23.:26:30.

So you're confident that you know all your cats that if I said

:26:31.:26:33.

the name you could tell me what colour it says on the passport?

:26:34.:26:36.

OK so if I said Precious, what would it say

:26:37.:26:39.

Smarty's white - Smarty Pants.

:26:40.:26:48.

Yes, now we'll have to see who is present and correct.

:26:49.:27:00.

How many garage cats have we got in now then?

:27:01.:27:09.

I can still go out in the evening when I want to.

:27:10.:27:16.

Normally everything is finished by 8 o'clock in the evening.

:27:17.:27:21.

I'm going out tomorrow evening on a date.

:27:22.:27:25.

He saw me and recognised me and said, "crazy cat lady", yes.

:27:26.:27:29.

So he recognised your picture from the local paper?

:27:30.:27:32.

So you might find love because you've rescued the cats?

:27:33.:27:42.

It will be nice, he's a nice person so we'll see, yes.

:27:43.:27:53.

I feel like we should follow up on her dating prospects too!

:27:54.:28:05.

Should victims of crime have the right to contact

:28:06.:28:08.

We hear from a mother who met the man who killed her son?

:28:09.:28:13.

We follow the conservationists helping to save the African

:28:14.:28:15.

elephants as the first ever aerial survey revealed a dramatic

:28:16.:28:17.

Hospitals in England are making contingency plans for a series

:28:18.:28:31.

of five-day strikes announced by junior doctors.

:28:32.:28:34.

The latest wave of industrial action is due to begin

:28:35.:28:37.

The doctors' union, the BMA, is blaming the government's decision

:28:38.:28:44.

to impose new pay and working conditions on doctors.

:28:45.:28:46.

The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, says he still wants to talk.

:28:47.:28:51.

Chris Hopson from NHS providers told this programme it's hard to know

:28:52.:28:54.

It is difficult to know because they are shorter strike, but on the other

:28:55.:29:06.

hand, we have less time to prepare, so there will be a lot of work done

:29:07.:29:12.

over the next few days to work out what the impact will be, but

:29:13.:29:15.

particularly because it is a five-day strike, and at short

:29:16.:29:18.

notice, there are clearly will be a significant impact.

:29:19.:29:22.

The US presidential candidate, Donald Trump, has set

:29:23.:29:24.

out a hard-hitting plan to curb illegal immigration.

:29:25.:29:26.

He restated plans to build a border wall with Mexico,

:29:27.:29:28.

hours after appearing to be conciliatory in a meeting

:29:29.:29:31.

Addressing a rally in Phoenix, Arizona, the Republican candidate

:29:32.:29:34.

insisted that Mexico would pay for its construction.

:29:35.:29:38.

A 23-year-old man is still in police custody after a woman and young boy

:29:39.:29:43.

were killed when a car that was being chased

:29:44.:29:46.

Three girls were also injured in the crash in Penge in south east

:29:47.:29:51.

People who don't own a television - but use the BBC iPlayer

:29:52.:29:57.

to catch up on shows - must pay for a TV

:29:58.:29:59.

Until now, only people who watched programmes

:30:00.:30:02.

as they were being broadcast needed to pay the annual fee.

:30:03.:30:06.

Now viewers will be asked to confirm that they have a licence -

:30:07.:30:10.

otherwise they risk prosecution and a ?1000 fine.

:30:11.:30:17.

The UK manufacturing industry has swung to a 10-month high and beat

:30:18.:30:20.

expectations as it rebounded from its slump

:30:21.:30:22.

The Markit/CIPS purchasing managers' index for the sector rose to 53.3

:30:23.:30:31.

in August from July's figure of 48.3.

:30:32.:30:34.

A figure above 50 indicates the sector is expanding.

:30:35.:30:45.

But there was also evidence that the weaker pound had pushed up company's

:30:46.:30:49.

costs. That's a summary of the latest news,

:30:50.:30:53.

join me for BBC Newsroom live at 11. Many of you getting in touch

:30:54.:31:01.

regarding the doctors strike. One person on text says the doctors knew

:31:02.:31:06.

what they were signing up to when they started the job, they should

:31:07.:31:12.

stop whining. Peters says, the root of the problem is that Jeremy Hunt

:31:13.:31:15.

did not consult with the doctors before implementing his so-called

:31:16.:31:19.

reforms. Maybe if he had done so he would be much wiser. Another one

:31:20.:31:26.

says Jeremy Hunt only consults with the doctors with preprepared

:31:27.:31:31.

statements. He should be willing to be questioned face-to-face. This

:31:32.:31:36.

person says they support the junior doctors for the Mary says the junior

:31:37.:31:44.

doctors are concerned about patient care. It is not all about page, it

:31:45.:31:49.

is common sense, she says. Will Perry's back now

:31:50.:31:51.

with the sport headlines. The sports headlines

:31:52.:31:54.

this morning: A massive, record braking ?1.165 billion spent

:31:55.:31:58.

in the summer transfer window. One of the biggest deals on deadline

:31:59.:32:03.

day saw David Luiz return to Chelsea for ?34 million

:32:04.:32:06.

from Paris St Germain, 2 years Tottenham managed to convince

:32:07.:32:08.

Moussa Sissoko to join them instead of Everton in the 11th hour

:32:09.:32:16.

with the French international signing

:32:17.:32:28.

for ?30 million from newcastle. British number 1 Johanna Konta

:32:29.:32:29.

collapsed on court but recovered to win her 2nd round US Open match

:32:30.:32:31.

against Tsvetana Pironkova Kyle Edmund's also

:32:32.:32:34.

into the third round. And Chris Froome moved up to 2nd

:32:35.:32:37.

place in the overall standings Froome won yesterday's stage 11,

:32:38.:32:40.

beating Nairo Quintana Team GB's Olympians and Paralympians

:32:41.:32:44.

may get a brand new shiny kit for each set of Games -

:32:45.:32:54.

this year designed But not every athlete

:32:55.:32:56.

at Rio can count on that. Some of the athletes representing

:32:57.:33:02.

poorer countries have to provide their own -

:33:03.:33:04.

and this can even prevent Alex Mitchell was volunteering

:33:05.:33:07.

at London 2012 when he noticed athletes competing in poor quality

:33:08.:33:11.

or badly fitting shoes and clothes, He founded a charity which has now

:33:12.:33:14.

funded thousands of pounds worth of kit, and it's due to be flown out

:33:15.:33:23.

to paralympians in Rio. Some of the kit found its way to the

:33:24.:33:26.

Namibian team, as well. In a minute we can speak

:33:27.:33:32.

to Michael Hamukwaya, the athletics coach for the Namibian Paralympic

:33:33.:33:35.

team, who have received lots of kit from Alex,

:33:36.:33:37.

but first a few questions. You were volunteering at London and

:33:38.:33:45.

you spotted what? Myself and a few other volunteers spotted a couple of

:33:46.:33:52.

Ivory Coast athletes, T 45 and T 46, who did not have the correct

:33:53.:33:59.

sprinting spikes, and we thought for the cost of ?70 that was a bit

:34:00.:34:03.

ridiculous and so we went out and we bought them for them. What did they

:34:04.:34:09.

say? They were surprised, that someone wanted to give them

:34:10.:34:12.

something for free, but when they and other Paralympians found out

:34:13.:34:17.

there was a willingness to open up and ask for support and four anyway

:34:18.:34:20.

in which we could help. How many did you help? About 60 Paralympic

:34:21.:34:29.

athletes in 2012. That was coming out of your own pocket? My own

:34:30.:34:34.

pocket and donations from the public and some of the other Games makers

:34:35.:34:39.

who were the other volunteers at the time. You have now set up the

:34:40.:34:45.

charity, how much have you raised? The money we have raised is

:34:46.:34:50.

relatively small, we set up in 2013 and we went to Glasgow for the

:34:51.:34:57.

Commonwealth Games. We have raised in the region of around ?5,000 total

:34:58.:35:04.

but we have put in money myself, myself and my wife, we make sure any

:35:05.:35:08.

donations on the public go directly to the athletes we support. What

:35:09.:35:15.

made you want to support them? I'm not an athlete, although it is a

:35:16.:35:22.

worry for the Paralympic games I have got power lifter on my

:35:23.:35:34.

accreditation X --! But it seemed a bit ridiculous that a barrier to

:35:35.:35:37.

basic kit like running shoes and swimming suits and powerlifting

:35:38.:35:41.

suits, it was a barrier holding them back and we thought this was a way

:35:42.:35:45.

we could level the playing field. Michael, you coach Namibian

:35:46.:35:53.

Paralympians who have been helped by this charity, what support have you

:35:54.:35:58.

had and what difference has it made? The project that he has been running

:35:59.:36:02.

has made a difference for many, especially the Paralympic athletes.

:36:03.:36:08.

Most of our Paralympic sports is still a new thing in Africa, and the

:36:09.:36:16.

government is trying to push them. But as we say it is to a new thing

:36:17.:36:20.

which is coming up in Africa and most resources are still not really

:36:21.:36:25.

much invested in Paralympic sport. So when these guys get to the Games

:36:26.:36:31.

they don't have all the conditions, even the training, when they are

:36:32.:36:35.

doing it, they don't have these conditions, especially equipment,

:36:36.:36:41.

and with Alex's help, what he is doing, it helps us a lot, and at

:36:42.:36:50.

Namibian we have some kit, which we got from Glasgow, and when we went

:36:51.:37:00.

back, when I showed Alex some of the pictures, some of them used to run

:37:01.:37:05.

in running gear which was torn and not really very much and not very

:37:06.:37:08.

good, especially when they come to race at these high level. When they

:37:09.:37:17.

come to this highest level, they just come as they are and that is

:37:18.:37:21.

always a disadvantage. Sorry to interrupt. Do you want to talk to

:37:22.:37:27.

Alex to say thank you for the help you are outlining? Definitely. Alex,

:37:28.:37:34.

we want to say thank you for the work you are doing, I note the help

:37:35.:37:44.

you are -- I note the help you are giving to poor countries, it is

:37:45.:37:49.

great, we hope it increases to give these guys a better opportunity to

:37:50.:37:56.

compete with this equipment. It must make you proud. These are amazing

:37:57.:38:04.

athletes, like the power lifter, it is amazing how much they can bench

:38:05.:38:09.

press, and to give them a suit which costs ?70 to make, it is staggering

:38:10.:38:13.

what difference this can make to an individual. There is a great

:38:14.:38:17.

advertising campaign which is all about ability and that is what the

:38:18.:38:22.

Paralympics is all about, these are athletes who are giving it their all

:38:23.:38:25.

and pay sick kit should not be a barrier to it -- and basic kit

:38:26.:38:33.

should not be a barrier to it. To both of you, thanks for joining us.

:38:34.:38:37.

If you were a victim of crime would you be happy to meet

:38:38.:38:41.

with the person who caused the harm to you?

:38:42.:38:43.

Restorative justice brings together victims of crime

:38:44.:38:44.

with the perpetrators of the offence.

:38:45.:38:47.

Research shows it reduces reoffending by 14% and has an 85%

:38:48.:38:51.

A committee of MPs have today said this should be a right

:38:52.:38:58.

for all victims of crime, and something the government should

:38:59.:39:01.

Let's talk now to Joan Scourfield, whose son James, a 28-year-old

:39:02.:39:07.

trainee paramedic was killed in 2011 when he was assaulted

:39:08.:39:10.

Jason, who also joins us this morning, punched James once

:39:11.:39:20.

in the face which fractured his skull and caused a brain haemorrhage

:39:21.:39:23.

He was sentenced to 30 months in jail for manslaughter,

:39:24.:39:28.

The pair began the restorative justice programme not long

:39:29.:39:36.

after Jacob was released from prison.

:39:37.:39:40.

You are both with us this morning. Tell us more about your son James.

:39:41.:39:50.

What was he like? Very much a family person, always at home for parties

:39:51.:39:55.

and family events, he was very sporting and he loved adventure

:39:56.:40:00.

sports, skiing, that kind of stuff, mountain bikes. He was a paramedic

:40:01.:40:07.

as his career. He loved life, really. Your whole life changed when

:40:08.:40:15.

you got that call to say what had happened. Yes. James was alive nine

:40:16.:40:21.

days and it was a roller-coaster as to whether he would live or need

:40:22.:40:27.

rehab but what would happen, really. What happened on the night he was

:40:28.:40:35.

killed? They had been out to the cricket and they went for a few

:40:36.:40:37.

drinks afterwards, they are in Nottingham town centre and they had

:40:38.:40:44.

gathered themselves ready for a taxi home and they were chatting to

:40:45.:40:49.

another group of lads. Jacob punched him once on the chin and that was

:40:50.:40:56.

all. How did you feel about the person who had killed your son?

:40:57.:41:03.

Jacob is sitting here. At that time you could not put a face to it, what

:41:04.:41:09.

about your emotions? I wanted to know why he had done it, really.

:41:10.:41:14.

When you first saw him in court, how did you feel? I was more wound up

:41:15.:41:26.

with the sentence at that point and I thought my son's life was worth

:41:27.:41:31.

more than that. 30 months? Yes, that is not really a deterrent. You were

:41:32.:41:37.

angry? Yes, but more with the justice system than with Jacob,

:41:38.:41:43.

because that is the justice system. If someone had said you you could

:41:44.:41:46.

meet Jacob at that stage, what would you have said? We would not have

:41:47.:41:51.

done it at that stage, not at all, but later on, victim support, they

:41:52.:41:58.

were coming backwards and forwards, and we had unanswered questions, it

:41:59.:42:01.

was nothing about meeting Jacob, it was just to get the questions

:42:02.:42:05.

answered and to see what kind of character he was. Please tell you

:42:06.:42:10.

what he might have done before but they don't tell you about his

:42:11.:42:14.

character. -- the police tell you. What did you want to know? Whether

:42:15.:42:19.

it was revenge, had James talked to a girl or knocked his pint over, to

:42:20.:42:26.

find out why he had done it. You entered into the process, how did

:42:27.:42:32.

that work? You put the questions forward through a third party? We

:42:33.:42:36.

did not know anything about restorative justice and victim

:42:37.:42:40.

support said there is a system but Jacob might not agree to it. We knew

:42:41.:42:49.

it could have just been no thanks, but we had to take the chance. The

:42:50.:42:57.

restorative justice team came to us and asked the questions are what we

:42:58.:43:03.

wanted to be answered, and then they went off and went to see if Jacob

:43:04.:43:09.

could answer our questions and help us with our grieving. Jacob, when

:43:10.:43:17.

you first saw Joan and her husband David in court, how did you feel? At

:43:18.:43:28.

that time I was frustrated and angry, who felt more sorry for

:43:29.:43:35.

himself, than anybody else. I was more concerned about myself and my

:43:36.:43:42.

family, trying to come to terms with what had happened and what I'd done.

:43:43.:43:49.

What about the impact on your own life? When you had the contact after

:43:50.:43:59.

you have been sentenced from the family, how did you feel? When I was

:44:00.:44:08.

released from custody, I've said it before, others bore at risk of

:44:09.:44:12.

committing an offence -- I was more at risk of committing an offence

:44:13.:44:21.

because I had become or frustrated and I blamed myself and other people

:44:22.:44:24.

and there was no space in custody for myself to reflect on what I'd

:44:25.:44:30.

done and there was no one to challenge what I'd done and there

:44:31.:44:33.

were others who shared the same criminal values that I did, and when

:44:34.:44:37.

I came out of custody I was not in a good position and I did not have any

:44:38.:44:42.

likelihood of employment. When David and Joan came forward and asked

:44:43.:44:47.

those questions, that was a time when I really took a step back and

:44:48.:44:53.

thought, there are people in this situation that have been harmed more

:44:54.:44:57.

than I have and I had to face up to that. After some reflection I

:44:58.:45:03.

decided the least I could do was to answer their questions and try and

:45:04.:45:08.

move forward in a more positive way. And it led to the three if you

:45:09.:45:16.

coming together. What was the first meeting like?

:45:17.:45:22.

Nerve wracking for both of us. And sure it was hard for Jacob to come

:45:23.:45:28.

to me, but it was still hard for us to see Jacob. How did you feel? I

:45:29.:45:35.

had already gained a lot from the process, just through the mediation

:45:36.:45:40.

and the letters. We were corresponding for two and a half

:45:41.:45:44.

years before we got to the point where we felt comfortable to meet

:45:45.:45:48.

each other face-to-face. You said you were harder -- you were sure it

:45:49.:45:56.

was harder for Jacob. He killed your son. I know, but when you have done

:45:57.:46:00.

something, it is hard to say sorry sometimes. And hard to forgive too.

:46:01.:46:09.

Yes. Did you go to meet him feeling like you could forgive him? Although

:46:10.:46:17.

Remedy were very good, they would tell us, not just the questions, but

:46:18.:46:28.

how he felt. Everything was at our own pace. They said, you know you

:46:29.:46:36.

can drop out at any time, even on the day of meeting. They would say,

:46:37.:46:41.

Jacob is on the way but if you want to drop out, you can. I would also

:46:42.:46:46.

say that I learnt a lot more from this restorative justice process

:46:47.:46:52.

than I ever did in custody, and it was more difficult for me to walk

:46:53.:46:57.

into that room knowing they were there than spending 15 months in

:46:58.:47:04.

custody. For me, that was being able to hear first-hand how I had

:47:05.:47:10.

impacted the family, and I couldn't hide away from that any more and put

:47:11.:47:13.

it away to the back and not think about it. I was made to think about

:47:14.:47:17.

it and take responsibility for what I had done. Then you are sat looking

:47:18.:47:23.

at yourself, thinking, how can I become a better person and integrate

:47:24.:47:28.

back into society? Would you credit the fact that you came together with

:47:29.:47:33.

changing your life? This is the strange thing about it - although I

:47:34.:47:36.

went to that meeting wanting to say sorry for what I had done, and I

:47:37.:47:43.

knew that could never be enough - I also wanted to say thank you,

:47:44.:47:48.

because if they did not have the courage to come forward and put

:47:49.:47:51.

those questions to me, I would not be the person I am today. For you,

:47:52.:47:59.

Joan... We asked Jacob questions and he answered in a letter, saying he

:48:00.:48:04.

wanted to say sorry but it was not enough. We told him to try to keep

:48:05.:48:07.

out of trouble and turn his life around, and he has more than done.

:48:08.:48:13.

Credit to him. He says it is us, but... What is the relationship

:48:14.:48:21.

between the two of you now? We don't have real contact, only e-mail. Or

:48:22.:48:24.

if we are called for something like this. We're working on the One Punch

:48:25.:48:30.

campaign. When you say you have e-mail contact, is it because you

:48:31.:48:35.

want to know how he is getting on? Yes. As a mother, I was worried that

:48:36.:48:39.

once probation stopped and everything went away in terms of

:48:40.:48:45.

restorative justice, would he fall back? He has come a long way, but in

:48:46.:48:50.

the early days you don't know, do you? Do you almost feel a sense of

:48:51.:48:58.

responsibility to Joan and David? In a way, yes. We have got to a point

:48:59.:49:05.

now where we both know that what we have said we mean. I believe I have

:49:06.:49:13.

tried everything I can and I have done everything I can to try to

:49:14.:49:18.

repair some of the harm. If you hadn't gone through this, where do

:49:19.:49:22.

you think you would both be now in terms of your emotions and where

:49:23.:49:26.

your lives would be? Probably still questioning and grieving, wondering

:49:27.:49:32.

why he did it. Nobody else could really answer those questions. For

:49:33.:49:42.

me, I would probably even be in and out of custody or just still an

:49:43.:49:49.

angry young man wandering around with a load of issues he doesn't

:49:50.:49:53.

know how to resolve. Great to talk to you both. Thank you very much.

:49:54.:50:01.

Some breaking news to bring you on that crash in Penge in south London.

:50:02.:50:12.

Kyle McCall at has been named as the ten-year-old who died.

:50:13.:50:22.

It's long been suspected that Africa's elephant population has

:50:23.:50:30.

been shrinking significantly, but now a figure has been put on it.

:50:31.:50:32.

At least 144,000 - that's a third of the population -

:50:33.:50:36.

have been killed in the past decade, according to the first ever

:50:37.:50:39.

The Great Elephant Census, as it's called, took

:50:40.:50:42.

two years to complete, and covered nearly half a million

:50:43.:50:46.

kilometres of savannah in 18 countries.

:50:47.:50:49.

The people behind the census make the following prediction:

:50:50.:50:51.

At the current rate of poaching, half the elephants left in Africa

:50:52.:50:54.

Botswana is home to more than 40 percent of the continent's

:50:55.:50:59.

Our Africa correspondent, Alastair Leithead, is in Kenya.

:51:00.:51:01.

The reason we have come to the orphanage is to draw

:51:02.:51:04.

The reason we have seen this drop in elephant numbers is poaching.

:51:05.:51:14.

Half the elephants we saw here were here because their mothers

:51:15.:51:16.

were killed by poachers and they were left young.

:51:17.:51:18.

They were brought up here and reintroduced into the wild

:51:19.:51:21.

once they get to three and a half years old.

:51:22.:51:23.

We were recently in Botswana where the research into the census

:51:24.:51:26.

They have been flying across 18 African countries canting

:51:27.:51:33.

They have been flying across 18 African countries counting

:51:34.:51:38.

the elephants, and they tag elephants, they dart it,

:51:39.:51:40.

The vet, Larry Patterson, prepared the tranquilliser dart

:51:41.:51:50.

so that Elephants Without Borders could get the tracking

:51:51.:51:52.

collar onto the elephant and follow its movements.

:51:53.:51:54.

They selected a big bull who was making his way to one

:51:55.:52:03.

It is Botswana's worst drought in 30 years,

:52:04.:52:13.

countries mean that the elephants have come here, and there

:52:14.:52:17.

Knowing how many there are and where they It is really

:52:18.:52:21.

important in terms of helping to protect them.

:52:22.:52:26.

The drugs took more than ten minutes to take effect.

:52:27.:52:29.

They were worried the elephant would fall awkwardly

:52:30.:52:31.

onto a tree stump, but he fell back on his haunches.

:52:32.:52:46.

Once they were confident he was under, the team took out

:52:47.:52:49.

the collar, the elephant's new accessory for the next three

:52:50.:52:52.

years, and took it over to fasten it on.

:52:53.:52:55.

He was still a little bit awake, so they had to work quickly in order

:52:56.:53:04.

They had to keep his trunk open throughout so he could breathe

:53:05.:53:13.

while under the influence of the drugs.

:53:14.:53:14.

A weight is put under his chin to keep the GPS tracker

:53:15.:53:17.

in position on his shoulders, so that it can see the satellite.

:53:18.:53:20.

While he was under, they took the opportunity

:53:21.:53:22.

Larry thought he was probably about 50 years old.

:53:23.:53:27.

Given this year is Botswana's 50th anniversary year, the team

:53:28.:53:30.

nicknamed their latest tracked elephant the local

:53:31.:53:36.

It was a precarious operation, but it was all done pretty quickly.

:53:37.:53:53.

And then it was just a matter of injecting the antidote

:53:54.:53:55.

We watched nervously as he came to, and then got steadily back

:53:56.:54:08.

on his feet - dazed, confused, but suitably accessorised to now

:54:09.:54:12.

It's really important data they are gathering

:54:13.:54:20.

Elephants used to cross over the borders of five African

:54:21.:54:25.

countries and now they don't because they are smart

:54:26.:54:27.

enough to realise there are dangers of poaching

:54:28.:54:29.

The elephants we saw here this morning, cute as they might be,

:54:30.:54:38.

are the real way of putting into reality the situation.

:54:39.:54:42.

If poaching isn't stopped, at the current rate,

:54:43.:54:44.

in nine years, half of Africa's elephants could be gone.

:54:45.:54:48.

As we heard, Botswana is home to more than 40% of

:54:49.:54:51.

Joining us now from our Bristol studio is Garth Hovell,

:54:52.:54:59.

a safari guide who's worked in Botswana and has experience

:55:00.:55:02.

How concerned are you about the future for elephants? Yellow might

:55:03.:55:14.

very concerned. I think this survey shows as we have been lacking all

:55:15.:55:18.

along concrete evidence of what our base line is. Now that we know that,

:55:19.:55:23.

we know the urgency involved in trying to fix this problem and

:55:24.:55:28.

protect them better. What is the best way to protect them? They need

:55:29.:55:35.

space. They roam in large areas, especially during drought periods

:55:36.:55:40.

they will congregate around water, which means they will destroy the

:55:41.:55:45.

habitat they are in. The other part of that, which the censors didn't

:55:46.:55:50.

cover, is that you lose your diversity, the animals that rely on

:55:51.:55:55.

the forest that the elephants end up destroying. They need space. There

:55:56.:56:03.

are charities like Space For Giants that are trying to secure space for

:56:04.:56:13.

them. There is proposed national park that crosses the border is in

:56:14.:56:19.

the area. It will encourage elephants to leave the sanctuary of

:56:20.:56:22.

Botswana and go back into their traditional routes back into

:56:23.:56:27.

countries like Angola, Zimbabwe, those sorts of places. It is

:56:28.:56:32.

extraordinary, the rate at which they are declining. 30% of Africa's

:56:33.:56:36.

elephants have disappeared in recent years. What is being done to stop

:56:37.:56:44.

poaching? More and more, leading governments such as Botswana are

:56:45.:56:48.

starting to the ploy troops from their Armed Forces. It is not enough

:56:49.:56:56.

to just rely on national park Scouts or police officers to do this. The

:56:57.:57:00.

countries involved are trying to take this as seriously as possible.

:57:01.:57:05.

Have elephants effectively been taken for granted until Mal? These

:57:06.:57:12.

figures paint a very clear picture of something that perhaps hasn't

:57:13.:57:18.

been realised previously. I agree. Until now, the fact that there was

:57:19.:57:26.

no baseline study to read from meant that people could take their own

:57:27.:57:30.

opinions or their own numbers or estimates as gospel. I think you are

:57:31.:57:39.

right, it was the population numbers or the lack of baseline information

:57:40.:57:43.

that led to them being taken for granted. Thank you for joining us.

:57:44.:57:49.

Some comments on the discussion we had with Joan and Jacob about their

:57:50.:57:55.

meeting up after Jacob killed Joan's son David. Matthew says: It is not

:57:56.:58:02.

something everyone would take part in but those who do seem to get

:58:03.:58:06.

benefits from the process. Another comment: It shows how it can change

:58:07.:58:12.

lives for the better. Kim says: I am moved watching them talking. I only

:58:13.:58:17.

wish it had been available when I was a family counsellor. It might

:58:18.:58:20.

not work for all but there is no doubt about the positive impact it

:58:21.:58:21.

can have. I told you, I don't need any help.

:58:22.:58:22.

And I told you, you've got it.

:58:23.:58:38.

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