06/09/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Good morning. Welcome to the programme. This morning, facing up

to 99 years in an American prison and $9 million in fines, an autistic

student from Sussex accused of hacking into US government websites

and stealing personal details of hundreds of thousands of employees

tells us he fears for his life if he is extradited to the States. There

is a war on whistle-blowers and activists on going in the United

States. War is not too heavy a word. It is barely possible that Gary

Wilmot receive a trial in the United States. The pressure to agree to a

plea bargain is enormous. And Larry is facing charges in three separate

courts. It makes it almost impossible to go to trial. Will he

receive a fair trial? No. He will not receive a trial at all.

We'll bring you an exclusive interview with Lauri Love -

who finds out next week if he'll be extradited to the states.

Also on the programme, the woman vilified after the death

of Baby Peter Connolly - the ex- head of Children's Services

in the north London borough of Haringey where Peter died,

Sharon Shoesmith will tell us what lessons she believes should be

A series of JK Rowling short stories based on Hogwarts School

of Witchcraft and Wizardry have just been released -

and we've got a group of children here who are about to get stuck in.

Good morning. What do you think of it so far? It's good. It follows the

story pretty well and I cannot wait to read further. We're told that the

books will take an hour to read so we will come back to the children

throughout the programme and they will give us their verdict at the

end. Welcome to the programme,

we're live until each weekday morning until 11 on BBC 2,

the BBC News Channel and online. We'll bring you the latest breaking

news and developing stories. At around 10:30 this morning,

the radical preacher Anjem Choudary will be sentenced for

encouraging people to support He could face up

to ten years in jail. We'll bring you that sentence

as soon as it's handed down Plus, former mayor of

London Ken Livingstone tells us "nobody should care" what Keith Vaz

has or hasn't been up to with Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag VictoriaLive

and if you text, you will be charged More than 200 people have been

prosecuted under the new 'revenge porn' law, according to figures

from the Crown Prosecution Service. It became an offence to share

private sexual photographs or films of someone without their permission

in England and Wales last April. Today's report is the first time

cases of this kind of crime have The Director of Public Prosecutions

is warning they're part of a growing trend of crimes committed

through social media. Of course there was a flip side

because it means that it allows us to really trace the evidence, to

take it and use it in court. So it does also allow us to really build

strong cases. Joanna is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary The retailer Sports Direct -

that was condemned over working practices and zero hours contracts -

is to improve pay and conditions for staff at its main

distribution centre. An independent review

into its working practices found serious shortcomings -

which Sports Direct Staff at its warehouse are now to be

put on guaranteed hours The Labour MP Keith Vaz will today

be urged to stand down as chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee

- after newspaper reports Mr Vaz is due to discuss his future

with the Commons Home Affairs He's reported to be facing a vote

of no confidence. The BBC understands senior figures

on the committee are consulting Commons clerks about what powers

they have to force Mr Vaz out. A BBC investigation has found that

drugs that used to be known as legal highs

are being manufactured and imported into the UK from China

on an industrial scale. The drugs used to be available over

the counter on the high street but were banned in May

after being linked It's now feared that China

is becoming a retailer to the world for these

psychoactive substances. UK police say they're trying to stop

the shipments coming in, British Airways passengers face

delays after an technical glitch Angry travellers complained of hours

queuing at airports, and some reported they had been told

the problem was worldwide. The company's apologised

to customers, saying their IT teams A group of activists

is disrupting flights The protest, by a number

of Black Lives Matter demonstrators, The police are there trying

to defuse the situation. The Black Lives Matter movement says

it wants to highlight the UK's environmental impact

on the lives of black people, saying the 'climate crisis

is a racist crisis'. One of Britain's most notorious

radical clerics - Anjem Choudary - Choudhary, who's 49,

was convicted last month of inciting support for the terror group Islamic

State. He could face up to

10 years in prison. President Obama has cancelled

a meeting with the controversial Philippine President Rodrigo

Duterte, after he was Both presidents are among leaders

gathering for the Association of Southeast Asian

Nations summit in Laos. Rodrigo Duterte has

insulted the Pope, the UN, foreign ambassadors,

and now the President Just before flying off

to the summit, he was asked what he would say to Mr Obama's

questions about human rights abuses. I am a president of a sovereign

state, and we have long ceased I do not have any master,

except the Filipino people. Don't ask just throwaway

questions and statements. 2,500 people have been killed

in just over two months Most are said to be drug users

or dealers, but no one Many Filipinos are pleased that

something is being done about lawlessness on the streets,

but many others are horrified They want the international

community to tell Mr Duterte But the president is having

none of that. The campaign against

drugs will continue. Plenty will be killed until the last

pusher is out of the streets. Mr Obama played down the insult,

but his staff cancelled to do is to talk to their Philippine

counterparts to find out is this in fact a time when we can have some

constructive, productive Both leaders are now in Laos,

and both will attend a summit. Everyone's waiting for the next

burst of undiplomatic language. A huge forest fire which has

destroyed nearly 800 acres of land on the Costa Blanca in Spain,

has been brought under control 300 firefighters tackled the blaze

which was about 75 miles south-east More than 1,400 people

have been evacuated from their homes since Sunday evening, with those

near Javea the worst affected. The Spanish authorities say

they suspect the fire Scotland's First Minster Nicola

Sturgeon will set out her programme Ms Sturgeon has described her plans

as "ambitious", and is expected to tell the Scottish parliament

that the focus will be on improving Researchers say that taking

Vitamin D could reduce the risk of severe asthma attacks when taken

with traditional treatments. A review of nine studies found fewer

attacks needing hospital treatment in patients using the supplement,

which is not strictly a vitamin but is supposed to echo the effects

of sunlight on the skin. Here's our Health Correspondent,

Adam Brimelow. Nearly 5.5 million people

in the UK have asthma. every day, severe asthma attacks

cause on average more than 180 hospital admissions

and three deaths. In this review, researchers found

that giving vitamin D supplements alongside usual medication reduced

the risk of attacks requiring A or hospital admission from 6%

to 3% and fewer cases But there was no effect on day

to day asthma symptoms. The authors say the findings

are exciting but more Although we showed

a protective effect we were not able to identify

whether everyone benefited from vitamin D or whether it was

restricted to those with lower And for that reason,

we are now doing further research We can get vitamin D

from food such as oily fish, eggs and fortified cereals,

but for most people the bulk of it is made from the action

of sunlight on the skin. UK health officials advise people

to consider taking vitamin D supplements in autumn and winter

to protect bone and muscle health. But at much lower levels

than used in this review. The authors say people should see

a pharmacist or a GP before That's a summary of

the latest BBC News. In a few moments time we will talk

to Lauri Love, the 31-year-old student studying engineering,

accused of hacking into various US government websites, the Nasa

website, the Federal Reserve and so on. We have already got comments

from you about his case. This is an e-mail from Peter. Autism or

Asberger's did not prevent Lauri Love committing this crime. It was

not a factor. And along with threats of taking his own wife, it should be

ignored in prosecuting him. If they have any bearing, which I do not

believe they do, then it is in sentencing that these pleas should

be considered. This campaign is fatuous and misguided, and a crime

should always be prosecuted. This tweet from Andrew. Yes, he should be

prosecuted but he should be subject to UK law, end of. It would not work

the other way around, that is for sure. That is in reference to the

extradition was between the UK and the US. Another tweet, don't hack

into computers. And this from Paul: The expedition legislation is

grotesque and unfair. And we will talk to Lauri Love in the next few

minutes. Throughout the programme,

we'll talk to our group who're currently devouring

the latest series of short stories JK Rowling has released based

on Hogwarts School of They are short stories, and these

children here reckon that they might have got most of the way through by

the end of the programme. They will tell us what they are like. If you

are getting in touch, and your texting, you will be charged at the

standard network rate. Time for the sport. Andy Murray, is the favourite

to win the US open? Is looking very good. He dropped just five Games

against Grigor Dimitrov and he will now face Kei Nishikori in the next

match. His route to the final will include a Novak Djokavic. If he is

to get there, he is playing better tennis, out of themselves and Novak

Djokavic. Novak Djokavic went out early in the Olympics, and early at

Wimbledon. Murray won the Olympics and Wimbledon, so he is playing the

better tennis of the two at the moment. Djokovic might be the

favourite but you have to fancy Andy Murray to go on and win a second US

open title. A word on Serena Williams as well. She is also

through to the quarterfinals, and she has no won more matches at the

Grand Slams than any other player. 308 matches. She has surpassed the

record previously held by Roger Federer. She had already beating

Martina Navratilova's record in the women's game. It goes to show how

good Serena Williams is and her dominance of the women's game

continues. Wales, after last night, do we think they will qualify for

the next World Cup? It was going to be interesting to see how they would

play last night, following the incredible success they achieved at

the Euros, reaching the semifinals. Were they going to suffer from a

hangover? They were not last night. They beat Moldova 4-0 last night.

They were always expected to beat Moldova, with the lowly standing

they have in the Fifa rankings. This was one of Gareth Bale's two goals,

Joe Allen with one of the others. Gareth Bale is no four goals short

of the all-time goal-scoring Welsh record held by Ian Rush. And at 27,

you have to say that he will surpass that by some distance. Hugely

impressive from Wales and Gareth Bale. I think the real test will be

when they face Austria in their next match in October. A stern test. And

Rory McIlroy, winning for the first time in a while? It has been over a

year since he won a PGA title. A significant win, not only with the

Ryder Cup around the corner. But interestingly, this championship

forms part of the FedEx Cup play-offs, the second tournament out

of four. If he was to go on and top those standings, he is fourth after

this win, and if he tops the standings at the conclusion, he is

in line for a windfall of ?7 million. I am not saying that

golfers are in it for the money but that is a significant carrot on the

end of a rather expensive piece of string.

Is that it for the moment? It is, yes. Until we speak to you again in

15 minutes time. Thank you, John. Next, an autistic man accused

of hacking into US government computers tells this programme

he would consider killing himself if Lauri Love, who has

Asperger's Syndrome, is accused of stealing huge amounts

of data from US agencies including the Federal Reserve,

the Department of Defence, American authorities want

the 31-year-old to stand trial in the US over

charges of cyber-hacking. His lawyers say it could result

in a sentence of up to 99 years Lauri Love is here this morning

and in a moment we'll talk to him. But first let's take a look back

at how all this began. Three years ago, somebody posing

as a UPS courier turned up 28-year-old Lauri Love was called

downstairs to sign for the package. It was all a deception,

a police sting to catch a man now accused of hacking into the FBI,

the US central bank and America's COMPUTERISED VOICE: Greetings,

citizens of the world, It's suspected Love was part

of Anonymous, a secretive network of hackers which targets

governments and companies. They tend to happen so much

because they want to gain from their hacking, they do it

because one of their beliefs is that all corporate information should be

in the public domain, so if people are storing personal

data and private data, If they think people are behaving

badly, they want to that. Two weeks ago today,

a line was crossed. Two weeks ago today,

Aaron Swartz was killed. Love is accused of being one of four

Anonymous hackers behind Operation Last Resort,

an online protest which followed the suicide of a high-profile

internet hacktivist. With Aaron's death, we can

wait no longer. The time has come to show

the United States Department of Justice and its affiliates,

the true meaning of infiltration. As payback, it's alleged Anonymous

broke into computer systems belonging to US agencies,

including the FBI, The Americans say they have evidence

Lauri Love himself downloaded thousands of staff records,

including credit card details. He allegedly wrote to other

hackers with the message, There is no suggestion, though,

that he made money from this or that But I think it is more

the embarrassment issue, more that people want to send

a message, saying, if you try to break into our systems,

then we are going to come for you. Certainly, there is no reason why

anybody who calls themselves a hacker or even a security

researcher should be getting into things

like Nasa and the Federal Reserve. It's not the sort of thing

you should be doing. The US Army Investigation Command

said they traced some of the attacks back through an internet address

in Romania, paid for by a PayPal After his arrest, he was questioned

by Britain's National Crime Agency, but he's never been charged

in the UK and investigation Instead, he is wanted by US

authorities for accessing US There is a war on whistle-blowers

and hacktivists ongoing And I don't think war is too

heavy a word for that. Love's supporters claim

if he is extradited he could be sentenced to 99

years in a US prison. Other hackers in his position say

they have been forced into a plea deal, a reduced sentence of ten

years or more to avoid In the UK, the maximum sentence

for a computer crime like this I think it's fairly possible that

Lauri won't receive any trial The pressures to agree

to a plea-bargain are enormous anyway and Lauri is facing

charges in three separate It makes it almost

impossible to go to trial. No, he would not receive

any trial at all. Lauri Love, then, is

now fighting extradition. What a court hearing in July,

his defence team argued he suffers from depression and Asperger

syndrome, a form of autism. Lawyers for the US said

he was using that as a shield On the face of it, this case looks

similar to Gary McKinnon's, another alleged British hacker

diagnosed with Asperger's. His decade-long battle

against extradition to the US ended in 2012, when Theresa May,

then the Home Secretary, blocked the US request

on health grounds. Mr McKinnon's extradition would give

rise to such a high risk It is now judges who decide these

things, not politicians. The idea was to rebalance

and extradition deal with the United States that many

felt was unfair. The Love case is likely to be

the first real test of the new law, The judge will make her decision

public on 16th September. We can talk exclusively

to Lauri Love now. Good morning to you. Thank you for

coming on the programme. Thank you for having me. How do you respond in

broad terms to these accusations? I'm hoping if if the extradition is

refuse, there has been no evidence provided over the three years. If

the forum has changed the law, we can continue the process into a UK

court. How difficult has it been then to try and fight this when you

haven't been presented with any particular evidence against you?

Yeah, I mean, it is difficult to face very serious allegations for

three years and not have any due process, ideally in a society, if

somebody is accused of something they're charged and they can see the

evidence, they can formulate a defence and they can have their day

in court. The issue is if I were to be extradited to America, there

would be no day in court as was alluded to earlier because I had

been made an offer I couldn't refuse in terms of plea bargaining. Why do

you say a plea bargain would be coercive? The legal experts from the

United States calculated that I could be facing up to 99 years if

there are three trials and the charges are presented in a certain

way. The Department of Justice then makes an offer where they'll present

different charges and they will recommend a lower sentence. The

problem is 19 out of 20 people take this offer. I think that maybe

demonstrates there is some problems with that system. Why? Because if 19

out of 20 people never have a trial, I'm not sure if that's really due

process and I'm not sure if it is really justice. Can you get your

head around the figure of 99 years? It is quite absurd. Anymore than a

few decades, you don't see an end to it and because of the poor

conditions in US prisons with people with mental health difficulties I

would be at risk of dying in some unfortunate way.

Right. That's a serious fear for you, isn't it? Yeah. This was argued

in the extradition hearing because of depression and Asperger's and

because the US prisons, they're don't provide therapies. You are

kept in a small room by yourself. Here in the UK they would attempt to

make contact with families and support the person who is at risk.

The barrister acting for the CPS during your extradition hearing

accused you of using your disabilities as a shield, what's

your response? It is upsetting. They didn't have a better argument to

make, but it was offensive to the legal experts who are eminent in

their field and it is offensive to me that someone who faced

difficulties through to mental health for all my life and reactions

like that are part of the reason why there is such a stigma around it

that stops people getting the support they need. A viewer said,

"Put the autism, put the Asperger's to one side. Don't dot alleged crime

then." Well, again that's a matter for the court. As was mentioned in

the introduction, the reason we're having this conversation is because

there was a tragic death of a young man and he died because of that

coercive plea bargaining. If the extradition is refused it will give

people an opportunity to make progress. Let me read messages from

people watching you around the country. A viewer says, "It is so

important to understand the effect of stress on people with autism." .

Help us to keep finding the answers." Tia says, "Lauri Love

should not be extradited. It is so sad he is autistic. There is no need

for harshness." Jamie says, "I have 100% support for Lauri Love." Tony

says, "Lauri should be subject to British law. The crime was allegedly

committed in the UK and therefore, our laws should apply." I think

there is a question of sovereignty here. In the UK we have a junctional

court system and a good prison system and the US shouldn't step in

when they don't like the results. We have an extradition treaty between

the UK and the US. Lots of people complained about it. Nobody seems to

have been able to change it. It was dined by David Blunkett several

years ago. He made comments about it since. That is the way it is. Yeah,

it is. Efforts have been brought about to reform it. The US haven't

needed to bring any evidence in the extradition hearing. People would

say that's absurd that I could be taken out of that country without

anything being proven. I hope the reforms will be successful and if

the extradition is refused it might promote those causes again. Are you

a hacker? Yeah, I would describe myself as a hacker. A hacker uses

technology and takes it apart and puts it together in interesting

ways. I work as an information security consultant. I hope

companies keep their networks secure. Have you hacked illegally?

That would be a question for the court. All right. Have you ever

hacked on to the banner of Anonymous? I mean part of the idea

of Anonymous is to not be affiliated in a name sense. If anyone said they

were a member of Anonymous they missed the point.

People will read into that answer what they will. In terms of the

three years that this has been hanging over you, what impact has it

had on you? What impact has it had on your family, your parents? I

really feel for my parents who have to worry and they have the stress of

this. For myself, I have eczema and I scratch my face and it bleeds and

I will have infections and I don't get a good night's sleep often.

Stress compounds other immune system problems. So it would be nice to

have less stress, but this is an important process that may

potentially result in some good so that keeps me going.

Do you have any steer from your legal team about what the outcome of

the extradition hearing will be? We will hear next week. Presumably

you're hopeful, of course... I'm guardedly optimistic on the basis

the US didn't present a case. We had 14 expert witnesses on US prison

conditions, on mental health and on the sentencing disparity between the

UK and the US. Not very much effort was made apart from by the barrister

to cast doubt on my mental health conditions. So I would hope that the

judge has enough to make the correct decision to refuse the extradition.

This tweet from a viewer, "The extradition treaty with the US is

one-sided. Their sentencing is ridiculous, but I don't think

Asperger's is an excuse. But have a trial in England." Ian says, "If the

hacker has broken UK law, prosecute. If not, do nothing." Another viewer

says, "I don't think he should face extradition, the protection of the

various sites should be increased and if he can get in them, so can

others." ." An Aoun mus text, "Mr Love should be treated with

compassion because he is ill. He should be involved in computer

security." You are? If the networks were compromised, that's a problem

for America and it is a problem that can't be solved by putting people in

small boxes, it is an engineering problem and solved by increasing

people in computer security and this is something I'm doing, it is

helping the next generation to have the skills. Hilary tweets, "I'm

sorry, autism is no defence against wrongdoing." Bill says, "Guilty or

not, the potential sentence is enough to keep Lauri here." Thank

you for coming on the programme. Thank you.

Your views are welcome on the case of Lauri Love. If you want to

e-mail, or you can tweet. Still to come, the death of Baby P,

Peter Connelly, sparked outrage leading to the then Director

of Children's Services in Haringey, Sharon Shoesmith,

being sacked live on television. We'll talk to her later

in the programme about the lessons she thinks should be learned

from the tragedy. We'll discuss the allegations

surrounding Keith Vaz He's still fighting for his

political life. We will get the views of the former Mayor of London,

Ken Livingstone. Here's Joanne in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. More than 200 people have

been prosecuted under the new "revenge porn" law,

according to figures It became an offence to share

private sexual photographs or films of someone without their permission

in England and Wales last April. Today's report is the first time

cases of this kind of crime have The retailer, Sports Direct,

that was condemned over working practices and zero hours contracts -

is to improve pay and conditions for staff at its main

distribution centre. An independent review

into its working practices found serious shortcomings

which Sports Direct Staff at its warehouse are now to be

put on guaranteed hours The Labour MP Keith Vaz will today

be urged to stand down as chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee

- after newspaper reports with the Commons Home Affairs

Committee this afternoon. He's reported to be facing a vote

of no confidence. The BBC understands senior figures

on the committee are consulting Commons clerks about what powers

they have to force Mr Vaz out. British Airways says it's checking

in customers at Heathrow and Gatwick Airport as normal

now after an earlier However it said it could take longer

than usual and urged customers Angry travellers complained of hours

queuing at airports. A group of activists

is disrupting flights The protest, by a number

of Black Lives Matter demonstrators, The police are there trying

to defuse the situation. The Black Lives Matter movement says

it wants to highlight the UK's environmental impact

on the lives of black people, saying the 'climate crisis

is a racist crisis'. One of Britain's most notorious

radical clerics - Anjem Choudary - Choudhary, who's 49,

was convicted last month of inciting support for the terror group Islamic

State. He could face up to

10 years in prison. A British man wanted in the US

for allegedly hacking into government computers has told

this programme he fears for his life Lauri Love, who has Asperger's

syndrome, could face trials in three different states

and is accused of hacking into the FBI, the US central

bank and the country's He told the Victoria Derbyshire

programme he is worried A judge is due to announce next week

if he should be extradited. President Obama has

cancelled a meeting with his Rodrigo Duterte,

after a public insult. Mr Duterte said he would call

Mr Obama a "son of a whore", if the US President raised the issue

of the sanctioned murders of alleged That's a summary of

the latest BBC News. In a mad. Johnny says, if you do not

want to do that time, don't do the crime. It's simple. Scotland has

your back, that is from someone who does not leave their name. This

tweet, he should receive the thanks for showing the weaknesses of the US

IT systems. Mitch sends a long text. The guest who hacked into Nasa

websites is saying it is not his fault because he has mental health

issues. This seems to be the latest excuse used by people. The young man

who attempted to kill Donald Trump city should be let off because he

also has mental health issues. Both of these men are smart enough to get

past some of the harshest security measures anywhere and the carried

out their crime with planning, thought and understanding of the

environment they were getting into. Jay says, regardless of his views on

data security, this guy could US national security risk and he should

be extradited and prosecuted there. I have mental health issues and I am

sick of people using them as an excuse to get away with crime. Linda

says, he has an amazing talent and it should be used for good, not

abused and punished. Here's some sport now

with John Watson. Andy Murray's incredible run of form

continues as he reached He dropped just five games

against Grigor Dimitrov He faces Kei Nishikori next -

as he looks to win a second US Open Crown, adding

to the Olympic Gold and Wimbledon Serena Williams has now won more

grand slam matches than any other Her victory against Yaraslova

Shvedova is her 308th grand slam win moving her past

Roger Federer's record Gareth Bale is just four

goals short of Wales' In their opening match of World Cup

qualification last night he scored twice as Wales

beat Moldova 4-0. It was their first competitive match

since that incredible run And no signs of a post

Euro hangover. And Rory McIlroy won his first PGA

Tour title in over a year He came from six shots back in his

final round to win by two shots. He's now fourth in the FedEx

Cup play-offs. Were he to top that

after the remaining two tournaments, The magic isn't over for JK

Rowling - she may be done with Harry Potter,

but she isn't done with Hogwarts School

of Witchcraft and Wizardry. She is delving back

into the wizarding world for a series of short ebooks

with new and old stories about some The e-books, each about 10,000 words

long, are released today. The idea is that you should be able

to get through them in about an hour.

How much of the Harry Potter magic will they contain?

I've got a real treat for you today. You are a great wizard, Harry.

Welcome to halt warts. -- Hogwarts. With us this morning some very

excited people in the studio already Let's talk now to 7 year olds Helen,

Bea and Lottie and 14 year old Kit - all Harry Potter fans who will be

here until the end of the programme. Hello, all of you. How are you?

Thank you for coming on the programme. So first of all, how much

do you love Harry Potter? I love it a lot. I have played all the Games

and watched all the movies and read quite a few of the books. Is there a

standout film or book? They each have their own good one.

Philosophers Stone is the best for me. And deathly Hallows, part one,

that is the best movie. What about you, what do you think? I'm not

really a big fan of it but I do like it. That is interesting. Do you have

a favourite character? I have three. Harry Potter. Hermione and Ron. Do

you like Ron Weasley? Are you sure? Not that bothered. Is he a bit silly

for you? Kind of. Favourite characters? I am a big fan of

Hermione. And what about you, Helen? Hermione. Bound to be. Of the three

books released today, have you the title is handy? Do you know what it

is called? Poltergeist and something? Power, politics and pesky

poltergeists. And how is it going so far? Are you learning anything new?

I am reading an incomplete and unreliable guide to halt -- to

Hogwarts, which explores a lot of the hidden things not in the books.

The form room, this book explains what is in there and how you get in

there. How do you get into the Hufflepuff room? You go up the

stairs and then you have to get the pass code. You go down through the

kitchens, and then you have to enter a code on one of the barrels and

touch the underneath. And then you will always be asked a random

question, depending on who is entering. That is new info. In terms

of Harry Potter aficionados, that is interesting new info. There are a

lot of new things that I think Harry Potter fans will appreciate. How far

are you through the one you are reading? 38%. 16%. How are you

doing? 30%. OK. And kids, I think you might finish it before the end

of the programme. Carry on reading. We'll keep going back to Helen,

Bea, Lottie and Kit throughout the programme

as they read the books. Coming up, the death of Baby P,

who suffered dozens of injuries at the hands of his parents

while being repeatedly seen by people that

should have helped him We will hear from her on what

lessons she thinks we can learn from the little boy's death.

One of Britain's most notorious radical clerics - Anjem Choudary -

will be sentenced this morning, after he was convicted of inciting

support for the terror group Islamic State.

Counter-terror police have spent almost 20 years trying

to bring Choudary to trial, accusing him - and the proscribed

organisations which he helped run - of radicalising young men and women.

He now faces up to ten years in prison.

In a moment we'll speak to a group of people who knew him

and discuss what kind of impact his sentence could have

But first, more about who Anjem Choudary is.

Anjem Choudary, doing what he did best, preaching his own brand of

radical Islam. For two decades, the authorities have been monitoring him

but as a trained lawyer, he knew how to stay on the right side of the

law. Said to be clever, charismatic and dangerous, followers who fell

under his spell included Michael and oblige all, one of the men who

murdered Fusiliers Lee Read the in 2013. Another follower was Richard

Dart, a Muslim convert jailed for terrorism offences. That's

stepbrother has spent years studying and Jim Choudhury. He is like a

father figure to a lot of these guys. He knows what buttons to push.

He radicalised as people, indoctrinate them with extremist

ideology. Anjem Choudary has been linked to countless extremists here

and abroad but has never been charged with a serious offence until

now. In 2014, he pledged allegiance to Islamic State and invited others

to support it. One of his keenest followers was this man, who fled

from the UK whilst on bail and joined Islamic State. He is

suspected of being the new Jihadi John. The authorities had a chance

to get Anjem Choudary in the dock and charged him with the unusual

crime of inviting support for a banned group. He boasted extremist

material online and that was then available around the world. In the

light of his speeches and the people he had posted -- the material he had

posted, it was enough to convict him. Choudhury will be sentenced

today and is facing up to ten years in prison. Authorities hope that the

influential hate preacher will finally be silenced.

Let's talk now to Dal Babu, a former superintendent

with the Met Police who now advises the government on counter extremism.

Steve Gillan is from the Prison Officers Association.

And Rashad Ali is a former radical who now helps prevent young

Welcome. What drew you to the Islamist organisation you supported,

which had the same ideology as the one that Anjem Choudary led? A

number of different things. First of all, it is attractive on an

ideological level. It is offering something alternative in terms of

politics and religion and belonging. It takes the lean back ticks all of

those boxes. Growing up in the 90s, there was not a lot of debate about

whether you were Muslim or British or Asian. -- it takes all of those

boxes. It capitalises on that. You are Muslim, first and foremost, and

that is your primary identity. Coupled with what was happening

around the globe at the time, living through the atrocities in Bosnia,

the genocide that was happening in trip permits and so on, this was

happening to blonde, blue-eyed, white Muslims whose only cultural

collection with Islam was the fact that was their heritage, and showed

raised debate is about to what extent can you really be a muscle

within society. Coupled with that, the political dimension. In order to

protect Muslims, in Bosnia, Palestinian territories or cashmere,

or whether it was in Chechnya at the time, actually the singular force

that can protect Muslims was a global superpower that did not

recognise borders, like Syria or Iraq or any other border, and was

able to unify Muslims into a global caliphate. The idea of an old Muslim

empire being re-established, reasserted in the world, coupled

with religious identities and your sense of belonging. And where does

the violence coming to it? It comes into deciding how do you want to

bring this about. And perhaps that is where Anjem Choudary cumin? There

is an ideal that rejects everything Western and the idea is that the

only way you can bring it about is through violence. Anjem Choudary's

perspective was bringing it about in his version of jihad, violent acts.

Whether that was globally for him or for some of his affiliates,

terrorist acts in the UK, or now clearly associating with Islamic

State in Iraq and Syria, then it was swearing allegiance to them and

taking actions on their behalf. From a former Chief Superintendent's

view, how do you get in the way, how do you stop people being attracted

to that? Well, I think Anjem Choudary was a very, very dangerous

individual. He preyed on vulnerable individuals. He was in the

Premiership of radicalisation, so he was one of the Big Four who have now

all been put away for been kicked out of the country. He was a very,

very dangerous individual. He preyed on vulnerable individuals and he

went for the sound bite, the idea of having the Islamic flag flying over

Downing Street and I think what needed to happen was he was dealt

with, but the difficulty was that the hypocrisy, he was a nightclub

goer, he was a philanderer, he was all of these things and suddenly

found religion and the danger is with somebody like him, he preyed on

vulnerable individuals and he made an issue of ensuring he used his

legal training to stay on the right side of the law which made it

incredibly difficult for the authorities to actually prosecute

him. But during that time, he radicalised individuals and my fear

now is that we've now had the Premiership radicalisers

neutralised, the danger is now a lot of the radicalisation will be done

via Twitter and via Facebook by individuals sending messages from

Syria and Lebanon. Well, that's already being done. I wonder how

relevant Anjem Choudary has been in recent years when social media has

taken over? First of all, the organisation has been quite active

on the social media. These are groups essentially with you have

been connected to a host of different people. Twitter, 90,000

individuals accounts have been taken down. 90,000? 90,000. It is not just

Twitter, it is telegram, it is Facebook, it is the different

mediums, YouTube has been instrumental in this regard. The

battle ground for this is on the social media platforms. It is how

the counter narratives go out on Facebook and target them via Twitter

or being able to send out videos on YouTube to counter that message. You

say he has been silenced along with three other top radicalisers, if I

can put it like that, they maybe in jail for a bit. There is no silence,

the social media... You're right Victoria. There isn't any silence

and in some ways it become more sin ter because at least we knew Anjem

Choudary was out there and he was seen as a fool by 99% of the people

who dealt with him. The media should take some responsibility for giving

him airtime. He was somebody who had no credibility and yet he was

getting media time. He appeared on flagship programmes like the Today

programme and on Newsnight and he was able to espouse without being

challenged his views. I don't think that is fair that he wasn't

challenged. He was challenged. But I take your point. That's your point.

Steve, given that the recent Government announcement which is

that someone like Choudary will be locked up in a high-security prison,

isolated, so he cannot radicalise other inmates, does that make you

less concerned about where he'll be jailed? No, radicalisation is a very

complex issue in prisons. We don't agree with the Government

recommendation. Some of the other recommendations we think are very

good, but isolating individuals, it didn't work 30 years ago in the H

Blocks in Northern Ireland where loyalists and Republicans

automatically then demanded political status. They wore it as a

badge of honour and we see the same here, whether it is Choudary or

anybody else. So how would you stop somebody like him radicalising other

people in jail? It has got to be done in society first because out of

sight, out of mind, appears to be the order of the day now they're in

prison, everything is OK. Well, everything is not OK because prisons

are becoming a breeding ground. I think it has got to start in society

first. Fine, so if we accept that, what would you do in jail with

someone like Choudary to stop him influencing a load of other people?

There is lots of initiatives that can be done. One, better training

for prison officers. But first and fore most, you can't have a

situation where you've got 35% less prison officers now looking after

85,000 prisoners in our jails now. Even if you had more officers, I

don't know how you would stop Anjem Choudary radicalising other

prisoners who might be harbouring all sorts of grievances? Possibly,

Victoria, but I think prison officers are very professional

people that keep the public safe and I think they do an excellent job

with people like Choudary and others. How? By doing what? With

high-profile prisoners that have got much more proximity than what

Choudary will ever have. Go on. Just let me finish. Better training, more

resources, more dedication to prison officers by realising the

professionalisation, but this can only be done through education in

society, without demonising the Muslim faith. Let me ask you,

isolation for Choudary in jail? I'm sympathetic to the idea that we need

to separate them from the general prison population. Prison is a

captive audience and it is people who have demonstrated an inclination

towards violence and people who demonstrated a general moral

prospective which considers itself separated from society. So

therefore, they are more vulnerable. At the same time the issue here

isn't really just about isolating without putting a plan in place and

the key thing with people like Anjem Choudary and others, is being able

to engage in a deralicalisation process. A lot of the work

demonstrates that you can engage individuals no matter where they are

on that spectrum, even the hard-end, but it can be Dungiven the right

circumstances and the right people intervening. Anjem Choudary could be

de-radicalised in jail? It is necessary to make that effort. I

just think, I support Steve's position. If you have burglars you

don't isolated burglars and you don't isolate the robbers. These

people at some stage have to come into society. It is having good

training for the prison officers. A huge amount of public resources have

been reduced and that's where we need to be putting our resources in.

This is a premiership radicaliser who has been put behind bars. Let's

do what we can to ensure he doesn't damage anymore vulnerable people

because there will be more vulnerable people in an enclosed

space in prisons. Let's not forget the excellent work the imams are

doing up and down the country de-radicalising people. A couple of

comments from people listening to you. We are expecting the sentencing

this morning sometime. We will bring that to you as soon as it happens.

Kevin on Facebook says, "Crackdown? What crackdown? The man has been

allowed to preach his hate for years. I'm sure his replacements are

already in place." William e-mails to say, "If there are hundreds or

tens of thousands or more just waiting to be called into violence

then the problem is bigger than one man and he didn't create the problem

in the first place." Thank you for those. Thank you very much for

coming on the programme. Excuse the offensive language we are about to

use. but American President Barack Obama

has cancelled a meeting with the controversial President

of the Philippines who had earlier Our Asia Correspondent Karishma

Vaswani is in Laos at the summit. How did it happen? Well, the

discussion or the comments were made by the Filipino president when he

was holding a press conference in man lal ahead of his visit where he

was due to meet with the American president, Barack Obama. A reporter

asked the question, "What will you do if Barack Obama raises the issue

of drug killings with you?" 2,000 people have been killed in the

Philippines since he became president and he has been criticised

for his shoot first, ask later policy. In response to that question

the Philippine president said, "Who is Mr Obama to ask me such

questions?" And he used the offensive words. The meeting meant

to be held between the two on the sidelines of this summit here has

been cancelled, but earlier on today, we received a statement from

the Philippines delegation which said that the meeting between the

United States and the Philippines will be held at a mutually agreed

date later in the future. There was an expression of regret from the

Filipino president who said his strong comments, he regretted his

strong comments were seen as a personal attack on the American

president. Thank you very much. Meanwhile, on the campaign trail

to be the next President of the United States Hillary Clinton

suffered a coughing fit COUGHING

Every time I think about Trump I get allergic.

COUGHING She said, "Every time I think about

Donald Trump I get an allergic reaction." You couldn't really hear

it because she was coughing so much. Let's have another listen.

COUGHING Every time I think about Trump I get

allergic. LAUGHTER

She needs a hot cup of tea. Tomorrow, in London, we're holding

a big audience programme Junior doctors may not

be going on strike for But they will be going on strike

for a week in a month's time. And then again in another month

and so on. So the dispute hasn't been settled -

just postponed and tomorrow we want to try and work out how

and if it will ever be settled. You are very welcome to join us,

to take part whether you're a junior doctor, you work in the NHS,

you've been treated in hospital or are going to be affected

by the five-day strikes. If you'd like to be part

of the programme to share your views, do e-mail

[email protected] to apply. Let's get the latest weather update

with Carol Kirkwood. When I got up at 4.15am and let

Gracie out for a wee, it was so warm. You're not wrong. It has been

a warm start. Temperatures last night in Northern Ireland didn't

drop lower than 19.4 Celsius in Aldergrove. Now, the temperatures

are higher than that. But look at this beautiful picture. Weather

Watchers picture from Northern Ireland. Lovely skies there. Some

blue skies, but to show you what the temperatures are like now, it is 22

Celsius in Leconfield and 21 Celsius in Lossiemouth, Aberdeen, Newcastle,

Eastbourne Newport to name a few places and it is feeling humid. So

what we have with it is not much in the way of a breeze to turn over the

cloud that we have. It is a cloudy start, but we've got a weak weather

front straddled across parts of Northern Ireland and Southern

Scotland. Now, that's going to continue to produce rain as we go

through the course of the day. The cloud across England and Wales will

break up in places so we will see bright skies or sunshine, but the

lion's share of the sunshine today will be across north-east Scotland.

Into the afternoon, we hang on to the band of rain across Northern

Ireland. It is slipping southwards. So for the far north of Northern

Ireland, it will brighten up. Northern Ireland Scotland

particularly, the north-east, seeing the sunshine. Somewhere in

Aberdeenshire could see 25 Celsius. But for the southern uplands, there

is a lot of cloud around and patchy rain. As we come back into the rest

of England and Wales, we're looking at again, quite a bit of cloud, but

somewhere from London up towards the Wash could hit 26 Celsius today. And

drifting across southern counties again, variable amounts of cloud,

some sunny breaks and the tame too can be said for Wales. In Cardiff,

highs around the 22 Celsius mark. Heading through the evening and

overnight, this line of rain across Northern Ireland and Southern

Scotland retreats northwards and that will allow the humid air across

England and Wales to travel further north. So you will notice that

across Scotland and Northern Ireland tonight. There will be a lot of

cloud around. And patchy mist and fog as well. So that's how we start

the day tomorrow. Once again, on a cloudy note but tomorrow with drier

air being imported for the Continent, you will find it will

break up readily and we will see more sunshine. It will feel much

warmer as well in the south, but still, some of that rain playing the

Outer Hebrides. 22 Celsius the maximum temperature in Newcastle

tomorrow and up to 27 Celsius as we slip down towards the South East.

Thursday, well, we have got a weather front crossing us, it is

producing rain across Scotland and Northern Ireland and cloud across

England and Wales. That moves away and behind it, still quite bright,

some sunshine coming out and it will feel a little bit fresher. It

doesn't mean it will turn cold, but it will be fresher than we're

looking at than the next couple of days. And then as we head into

Friday, well Friday too, is looking fairly cloudy. We've got stronger

winds coming in from the west, possibly gales across north-west

Scotland and the rain also coming in from the west too.

She is a human sunbeam, I am telling you right now.

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 10am, I'm Victoria

Later on the programme, the outrage which followed the death

of Baby Peter Connolly in 2007 led to widespread condemnation

It also resulted in the sacking on live television

of Sharon Shoesmith, the ex-head of Children's Services

in the North London Borough of Haringey by the Children's

secretary at the time, Ed Balls.

I have decided to take immediate action. My first priority is to put

in place a new leadership and management team in Haringey

Children's Services to ensure that vulnerable children in the borough

are properly protected. I have directed Haringey Council today to

appoint Mr John Coughlan as director of Children's Services with

immediate effect. Haringey Council will now lose the current executor

of Children's Services, post with immediate effect.

She believes there are still lessons to be learned

On the programme today, Lauri Love, an autistic student from Suffolk

accused of hacking into government websites told this programme that

extradition to a US jail would put his life jail. Anything more than a

few decades, you see no end to it. It is difficult in US prisons for

people with mental health difficulties. Many of you getting in

touch about the interview. Clifford says, break laws and act the

righteous cyber terrorist, then take your punishment like a man and do

not cry like a child in court. Gareth says that no judge in good

conscience should allow extradition without evidence. If you want to

watch the interview again, you can. It is on our website:

And how do new Harry Potter short stories, just released,

stand up to the scrutiny of these Harry Potter fans?

They will be giving their verdict on the latest tales

from the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry

Good morning, let's get the latest BBC news so far this morning.

I love those kids curled up reading books.

A group of activists is disrupting flights at London City airport.

The protest by a number of Black Lives Matter demonstrators,

The police are there trying to defuse the situation.

The Black Lives Matter movement says it wants to highlight the UK's

environmental impact on the lives of black people,

saying the 'climate crisis is a racist crisis'.

The retailer Sports Direct that was condemned over working

practices and zero hours contracts - is to improve pay and conditions

for staff at its main distribution centre.

An independent review into its working practices found

serious shortcomings which Sports Direct

Staff at its warehouse are now to be put on guaranteed hours

The Labour MP Keith Vaz will today be urged to stand down as chairman

of the Home Affairs Select Committee after newspaper reports that he paid

Mr Vaz is due to discuss his future with the Commons Home

He's reported to be facing a vote of no confidence.

The BBC understands senior figures on the committee are consulting

Commons clerks about what powers they have to force Mr Vaz out.

One of Britain's most notorious radical clerics - Anjem Choudary -

Choudhary, 49, was convicted last month of inciting support

He could face up to ten years in prison.

A British man wanted in the US for allegedly hacking

into government computers has told this programme he fears for his life

Lauri Love, who has Asperger's syndrome, could face trials in three

different states and is accused of hacking into the FBI, the US

central bank and the country's missile defence agency.

A judge is due to announce next week if he should be extradited.

He told the Victoria Derbyshire programme he is worried

It's quite absurd. Anything more than a few decades, you see no end

to it. Because of the power conditions in US prisons, I think I

would be in danger of dying in some unfortunate way. -- because of the

poor conditions. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News, more at 10.30. This text from Richard about Lauri

Love, the 31-year-old student facing extradition to the States. I am on

the autism spectrum and I have anxiety and it depends how bad the

crime is in the USA. I always think that Americans say things and the

actions happen. I have 100% support for Lauri Love. Another tweet: I

believe that Lauri Love should be recruited by the government to

protect our cyber networks. And this tweet: The internet has no borders

and if he hacked into US systems, he should be prosecuted, regardless of

the location he was in. Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning, Andy Murray is lining up a second US

Open title after reaching the quarter finals of the last

tennis major of the year. He beat Grigor Dimitrov in straight

sets, dropping just five games. He has now reached the quarterfinals

in 22 of his last 23 Grand Slams. Next, a meeting with Kei Nishikori.

I don't think I made any mistakes in the match. I kept good concentration

throughout. It was a good match and Dimitrov played his best but I did

not give him a chance to get into the match. Meanwhile Serena Williams

has won more Grand Slam matches than any other player in history. Her

victory against Yaroslava Shvedova is 308 Grand Slam win, moving past

Roger Federer's record as she reached the quarterfinals.

In their first competitive match since they reached

the semi-finals of Euro 2016, Wales kicked off their World Cup

qualifying campaign with a 4-nil win over Moldova.

Gareth Bale was the star of the show in Cardiff,

Joe Allen then scored his first international goal, before Bale

He's now second on Wales' goalscoring list, behind Ian Rush.

A great start for Wales that pleased their manager.

I think tonight was difficult because the last time we were

together it was in front of the world, really, in a semifinal of a

tournament. And now we are starting the beginning of a campaign against

a team we are expected to beat at home. So it was a different

challenge for us. But the boys answered all the questions and like

I say, we could have scored by more than four, but three points, that is

what it is all about. The next match is going to be a sterner test,

against Austria in October. Rory McIlroy played an incredible

final round as he won the Deutche Bank Championship -

his first PGA tile He was six shots behind

But he overturned that with a superb round of 65 to finish two shots

clear on 15-under-par. It was McIlroy's first PGA Tour

title in more than a year. I am proud of myself that I was able

to keep that momentum going, to keep the same thoughts and not get

negative if I hit it bad. I tried to stay positive throughout the weekend

and as I said, it has been a great lesson this week for future

tournaments, if I do not get off to the start that I want. And that is

all the sport for now. The death of Baby P is one

of the most high profile Peter Connelly, the blue eyed,

blonde haired little boy, was found dead in his cot

in the North London borough A year later his mother

Tracy Connelly, her boyfriend Steven Barker and his brother

Jason Owen were convicted of 'causing or allowing'

Peter's death. Details of the shocking

crime emerged. injuries to his body and had been

seen more than 60 times by health workers, the police

and social workers. Two days before his death,

a children's doctor who was standing in as a locum

missed the fact that the child Yet it was only social workers

that were vilified. The case sparked outrage,

leading to the then Director of Children's Services

at Haringey, Sharon Shoesmith, being sacked live on television

by the then Children's We'll talk to Sharon Shoesmith

in a moment about a book she's written, Learning From Baby P,

on the lessons she thinks should be learned from the death

of Peter Connolly. The death in 2007 of 17-month-old

Peter Connolly, known for so long as BPP, sparked huge public outrage.

His mother, Tracey Connelly, her boyfriend and their lodger were

jailed for causing or allowing the toddler's death, but much of the

criticism was directed at social workers in the borough of Haringey

in north London were the toddler lived and was on the at risk

register. Baby Peter was found to have suffered 50 injuries and had

long been known to them. In the final eight months of his life,

social workers, police and health professionals make contact with his

family on 60 occasions. In July of 2007, less than a week before his

death, Maria Ward, a social worker, made a prearranged home visit but

missed injuries to his face and hands after he was deliberately

smeared with chocolate to hide them. Days before he died, a doctor missed

the fact that he had it broken spine. More than a million people

signed a petition demanding the sacking of social workers and

doctors who failed him. In November 2008, the children's minister, Ed

Balls, ordered an enquiry into his death and a month later, Haringey

Council's director of Children's Services, Sharon Shoesmith was

sacked from her post with immediate effect. Haringey Council will now

remove the current director of Children's Services from her post

with immediate effect. An official report in 2010 criticised social

workers and their managers, saying that they were too willing to

believe Peter's mother's claim that her son was injured accidentally.

Sharon Shoesmith later won a pay-out of ?600,000 after a wrongful

dismissal court ruled in her favour. Sharon Shoesmith, former Director

of Children's Services Good morning. Thank you for talking

to us. Straightaway, let's deal with the accusation that you are cashing

in on the death of Peter Connolly by writing this book. Well, the book is

based on my PhD, which I wrote at university, and over the years since

Peter died, any physical or financial resources I have had have

been used to raise some profile and awareness of some of the issues

around cases like his. I only this week have travelled around this

country with an organisation called I am social work, and I am joining

another organisation, social workers without borders, to try to promote

some of the work that social workers do. But are you cashing in? I am not

cashing in. The film talked about ?600,000. There was never ?600,000,

there was a fraction of that which I cannot reveal because I have signed

papers and people would be ready to tackle me. It is a fraction of that.

And it is eight years. So any resource I had is ploughed into

raising the profile about harm to children. The book, you say, is

about learning from the death of Peter Connolly and trying to

understand why politicians, and the public, reacted in the way that they

did when an number of other children, over 50 other children

died in the same year and there was not the same reaction. But you were

at the heart of it, so I wonder how the book could be seen as objective?

You are not an independent observer. No, I am not, and that is an issue

for anyone who writes a book on a difficult subject. And how you try

to deal with that is to provide the evidence. And to reference the

evidence. My book does reference quite a large amount of evidence,

some of it which came through the court process. And I am able to

stand back and criticise myself. How? With great difficulty, of

course. But with the passage of time, and I am a self reflective

person, I am able to do that. But at the heart of this, and at the heart

of some of your questions already is the sense that I am guilty. And I

think I have to tackle that one. I'm not guilty. I have only asked two

questions and I have many more. But both of them had the undercurrent

that I had done something wrong and I should be punished in some way.

You are entitled to your opinion but perhaps it is just your perception

because you are coming from that place, because that is how it has

been for you. Absolutely. That is how it has been for all of these

years. You argue strongly that in this country, when a child dies at

the hands of the mum and dad, what society does more often than not is

blamed social workers. And that is what happened, as we know, in the

case of Peter Connolly. And the argument is that it is because

society cannot cope with the fact that mums and dads killed their own

children. Tell us more about your theory. It is one of the arguments I

make in the book, that the crime of familial child homicides, often it

is a mother or father or an uncle or an aunt who is involved, it is such

repugnant crime. It is very hard for us to understand how that happen.

Most of us really cherish our children. It is very hard for that

to be understood. I think that has to be explored. In finding it hard

to handle, we tend to look elsewhere for blame, we look for another

reason. Who feel that this child? -- who failed this child. The

circumstances around Peter's death remain complex. To this date we do

not know how he died or when he died or who killed him, yet we think we

know so much about Peter. But he was denied an inquest. So we do not know

the answer to any of those questions, even today.

Why do you think again, your argument, but why do you think it is

more palatable to people to blame social workers or another agency,

but in this case social workers rather than put responsibility

squarely at the hands, in this case, of the mother, the boyfriend and the

lodger? Well, it is easier in one sense, but also when you look in

in-depth as I do in the book what happened after Peter's death and

after the public knew about Peter's death which was a year on, you have

got a real complex interaction between politicians, the media, and

the public. The public were ill informed and misled from the

start... By? By politicians and tabloid media. What were the

misleading things you say were put out? Cameron was the first thing

that kicked this off in this very negative direction. You know, a real

example of opportunism, here was an Opposition leader desperate to be

Prime Minister, had to bring The Sun tabloid newspaper on his side in

order to get votes, yeah. We know that's how it works and there is an

interaction between him and The Sun, Rebekah Brooks and that develops

into a very challenging interaction, I think, between Rebekah Brooks and

Ed Balls in the end. I cover this in the book in some detail. But what

was misleading? What did politicians and the media put out that was

misleading? The worst of what they put out was that social workers

stood by and watched the torture of Peter Connelly. That was how bad it

got. That is how desperate it became. When I use those words, you

know, I have shivers running through my body because it was so far from

the truth. And you know, if I say to you that Peter was found dead on a

Friday morning. He had spent the previous weekend with his father,

his natural father, and his maternal grandmother. On Monday, the social

worker met both the father, talking about Peter's future, the fact that

he was having this specialist medical investigation on the

Wednesday. The next day he is met in the street. The whole family is met

by a health professional who knows the family and she interacted with

them. The next day he goes to see the doctor, and your little

introduction covered that and you say it is a fact that he had a

fractured spine, but we actually don't know that. There is some

conflict between pathologists in what they think was the situation

with Peter that day. The next day, the mother is in our offices with

the police officers and they're telling her that they have no case

against her. They have no evidence against her and that they won't

press charges, the day before he died and the next day he is found

dead. It feels like it is still rankles with you, certainly having

read the book, that social workers got all the criticism when doctors,

health professionals, the police, also made numerous visits to the

little boy? Yes. It doesn't wrangle with me. I think it is something

that we have to know and understand. I have never used blame against

blame, yeah? Blame is not part of my psyche really. It is not something

that I've ever used... But you do in the book, you blame the politicians,

you blame the police for private briefing which contributes to

misleading the public? I would really contest your interpretation.

I don't blame. What you find in the book is a real emphasis on

understanding, yeah? I really set that out at the beginning. That we

need to stand back and understand what happened here. I need to

understand too, yeah? I need to accept the public's reaction because

of what they were told, what they did understand. No, I would contest

that it is blame. The serious issue here is how we responded to Peter's

death and how we tackle this kind of crime. I gave the statistics and

you've quoted them this morning, you know, there is one child every week

dies. Now, that is not general knowledge in our population. People

don't know that, yeah? We have a lot of general knowledge about lots of

other things. But not this. We don't put that kind of information out

there. And I think the serious issue and what the book is trying to say,

this is something we have to come to terms with. We have to face this one

and try to understand it and this just simply blaming social workers

isn't going to get us anywhere. In fact, it is making the situation

worse because the social work profession is just under siege all

of the time. It has become, I feel, quite fragile, quite fear of

failure. I push social workers everywhere I go to try and join a

single independent professional organisation that can support them

and protect them. But if you make such an important or a profession,

fearful, which is I think is what we've done here. They meet me and

go, "Oh my goodness, we couldn't believe what happened. We live in

horror that it will happen to us." I have contact from social workers,

only one yesterday, saying, "Please can I talk to you about what is

happening to me?" This is happening now. It is happening now. At the

same time I want to add Victoria, these professionals are out there

today and they're at this moment making decisions which are life and

death. Yeah. I think it is time we faced up to that. It is time we

understood it and it is time we got behind the social work profession. I

wonder and you may not like this question, I put this to you - I

wonder if your book is looking for conspiracy theories when none exist?

Arguing that this relationship between the politicians at the time,

The Sun newspaper, a bit of briefing from the Metropolitan Police at the

time, somehow manipulated the public into thinking that social workers

were to blame for Peter Connelly's death when they knew he died at the

hands of his mother. They knew he was on the at risk register in your

borough, they knew his death happened on your watch and

therefore, it can legitimately be argued that you should accept some

responsibility for that? Well, there are a number of issues there. If you

accept that one child a week is dying in this way, yeah and that

those children will either be on on at risk register or not, but they

will exist somewhere and be attached to some local authority or some

borough, are we going to sack a Director of Children's services

every time a child dies? No. Where will that take us? Because it is

different. Because in this case it was on your watch when the child was

subject to a child protection plan. Yes, but my point still stands, does

it not? Many children die, and I don't want to, you know, say this

lightly. It is a horrific crime. But it is happening and the point I'm

making to you is if this is how we are going to react to it, no one is

going to do this job. No one is going to be a Director of A

children's service. I was entirely responsible and accountable in that

I followed Government guidelines to look at some detail as to what the

conduct was of social workers and I have to remind you that social

workers were never struck off by their own regulator. Social workers

at the heart of this case are still social workers today. Not

practising, but they're still social workers. That gives you some idea of

what the issues were for them. But you say conspiracy theory. I took

years to come to terms with the evidence that I had obtained through

the court system, years to realise what it was and what it was saying

and the most difficult set of documents that I looked at were the

17 drafts of the Ofsted report and my analysis, which took place over

years, and I used other people to look at it and say, "Is what I have

analysed here and written actually what is there or am I being, you

know, imagining this?" It goes to the heart of your question and they

say no, it is here. The evidence is there and I make reference to it in

my book and it allowed me to say and it is an important point, that the

report that Ed Balls is referring to in your clip that was so appalling,

was actually written by Ofsted's top team. It wasn't written by the

inspectors who came to Haringey and it was written by Ofsted's top team

in conjunction with some of Ed Balls' civil servants, they were

giving steers, make sure there is a clear attribution of responsibility

because they felt they were dealing with an absolute upsurge of emotion

among the public which they were... You argued once you had been sacked

effectively that sort of closed things down. Yes, they thought that.

They began to feel that there was only one way out of this and this

was to get me to sack me and indeed, we now understand and there is

evidence in the Leveson Inquiry that Rebekah Brooks rang Ed Balls and we

are led to believe this was to say, you know, either sack Shoesmith or

we'll turn this thing on you. People lost their way. I want to read some

comments as people heard you speak this morning and most of them are

essentially, I'll read one. It is representative. This tweet from

Philips, "Sharon Shoesmith is overplaying the victim here. It is

enough." Stephen says, "When you were head of children's services,

you have to take responsibility, Sharon." Paul thinks that you are

shameless, his words. I would urge them to read the book and to read

what is set out there. OK. I respect their views. They were led in a

direction with information... They might think that's a rather

patronising view of them. They are able to make up their own minds?

Well, I think the tabloid media can be incredibly, incredibly

persuasive. And the British public can be bright and intelligent? Well,

Ireland sure there are people who would support my view as well. I

haven't come on the programme to dissuade the British public. I

respect their view actually. If what they were told was absolutely true

that social workers stood by and watched the torture of a child,

they're absolutely entitled to say everything like that to me again and

again. Sharon shoe Smith. Let me bring you this news. It is to do

with something that happened in the early hours of this morning.

Officers alerted to a number of protesters who have made their way

to London City Airport. Nine people erected a tripod and locked

themselves together on the runway. Officers negotiated with the

protesters and specialist officers arrived to unlock them. Those are

the pictures as you can see from the runway. At approximately 9.30am

officers started to arrest the protesters. Well, let's talk to one

of the people who have organised this protest and is at the scene.

Can you hear me? Hi Victoria. How are you doing? Very well, thank you.

Where are you now? I'm right beside London City Airport. Are you on the

runway or outside the perimeter? Outside the perimeter. Had you been

on the runway earlier or not? No. So what were your co protesters doing

this morning and why? So we've called for a shutdown of London City

Airport because the climate crisis is a racist crisis. Can you say that

again, please? Can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead. Shutdown London City

Airport because the climate crisis is a racist crisis. What do you

mean? Basically from Newham to New Orleans time and again we see the

environmental costs of the aviation industry hitting working class

communities of colour first and hardest. Our aviation industry is

accounting for 13% of carbon emissions in this country. People

from the UK are 28% more likely to be exposed than their white

counterparts. It is due to the inequality around the globe. That

means that we're trying to put this issue on the map. What's your

evidence that black working class people in this country are more

exposed to air pollution than white people? Well, they're more likely to

live beside airports, beside power plants because they can't afford to

live in places that aren't. Right. Forgive me, this is going to sound

facetious and some of those people get on planes to go on holiday? Of

course. This isn't about those people, those holiday-makers, it is

not about that. London City Airport is the embodiment of short haul air

travel by the wealthiest in our society. So the average wage of the

people that fly out of the airport is ?136,000 euros a year per annum

and let's compare that to the fact that 40% of the London Borough of

Newham, the residents in the London Borough of Newham is scraping by on

under ?20,000 a year. So, you know, the people that can afford to fly

out of the airport are creating our climate crisis.

And so how is this protest, people lying down on the runway, going to

change things? This country has a rich and vibrant history of

disobedience and this action has been taken out of regard for human

life. It is important for us to put on the map the inequality around the

world and the fact that black lives are more likely to suffer as a

result of the climate crisis. I think that by disrupting, we are

doing that. We are raising, people are talking about this issue. Thank

you very much for talking to us. Thank you for your time. Amena, who

is outside City Airport in London. She believes the climate crisis is a

racist crisis. Next, tabloid story about a senior politician, male

prostitutes and allegations about an offer to pay for cocaine.

Labour's Keith Vaz is an elected member of parliament who is also

chairman of a powerful parliamentary committee that scrutinises

government policy on prostitution and drugs.

Today members of that committee will be hearing from Mr Vaz

on whether he intends to resign or step aside for a bit.

The husband and father of two certainly doesn't seem shy

about what's happened - he appeared in parliament

yesterday to ask a question of the new Home Secretary.

But could or should that appearance in the Commons be one

Let's hear what the former Labour MP and London mayor

Let's talk to Norman's Notes. This meeting between the Home Affairs

Select Committee and Mr Vaz, you will give his side of the story and

then what? I think Mr Vaz is going to face enormous pressure to step

down. He will give his defence, if you like. He will argue that he has

not broken any laws, and what he does in his private life is entirely

up to him. He will also be critical of the newspaper for paying the

prostitutes for this story. But he will face demands to go and if he

doesn't go, I'm told that he will be given 24 hours to reflect on his

position. The committee will then reconvene and the expectation is

that they may then try to hold a vote of no-confidence his position.

We are in uncharted territories. Nobody has ever done this before,

holding a vote of no-confidence in a committee chairman. They are not

even sure whether it would have any authority, whether you can host a

committee chairman. But significantly, the move is now

hardening against him. I was speaking to a Labour figure on the

committee who said that Labour members are not inclined to support

it. Now that would seem to me to suggest that he's going to have an

awfully difficult job hanging on to his position. I expect that what he

will do is say, look, I am prepared to stand aside temporarily but I

suspect that will not be enough for members of the committee and I

expect that he will recognise that and stand down or he will be forced

to stand down tomorrow. Thank you very much. Let's talk to former

Labour MP and London mayor, Ken Livingstone, who joins us outside

his home in north-west London. Labour members of the Home Affairs

Select Committee are not inclined to support Keith Vaz. Do you? I think

someone's private life should be private. I remember 35 years ago in

the run-up to the GRC election, reporters came to me with evidence

that the Tory leader, my opponent, was having an affair. They got

pictures of women going in and out of the flat he was renting and I

said, I will not run with that, we're running on the issue of

cutting fares. I regret to hear that the Sunday Mirror have decided that

this is more important than the serious issues such as the economy.

He is the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee which conducts

enquiries into drugs and prostitution. He is alleged to have

offered to fund the buying of cup game and to have used a male

prostitutes. Is that not a conflict of interest? -- the buying of

cocaine. Let's see what turns out to be true. I could recount all the

stories that you will have read about me in the press that turned

out not to be true. I can't recall being at Labour Party conferences

and watching journalists going up to the hotels with prostitutes they had

picked up. All across our society, people pay for sex. I do not approve

of it and I do not do it myself but I do not think it is illegal. If it

is true, do you accept that is a conflict of interest? I don't think

the fact, if it turns to be true that he has paid for sex, I don't

think that prevents him from conducting an enquiry into

prostitution and the problems of prostitution. The of prostitution or

what happens to the poorer prostitutes, not so much their

clients. -- Barak prostitutes. Are you concerned that a colleague of

yours is allegedly exploiting young immigrant men for sex. Let's see

what turns out to be true about all of this. I have known Keith Vaz for

40 years. He has been a good campaigner on a range of issues

about social justice and in all that time, I have never recalled him

talking about sex or anything like that, or drugs. He was always

focused on what he could do to make life better for his constituents or

the wider community. If it is true, surely that would alarm you, that he

was exploiting such young men, potentially vulnerable young men for

sex? Let's see how vulnerable they are. The reality is, do you judge

someone's political career on the basis of one incident like this or

the total worth of over four decades? Everybody makes mistakes.

Some newspapers in Britain today have reported that he has visited

male prostitutes before. Let's see what turns out to be true. The fact

is, don't judge somebody on one mistake they make in their life or

even a couple of mistakes. It is the total that he has done for other

people, in his own constituency and up and down Britain. He has always

been on the side of justice and that cannot just be swept away by one

mistake. Worth repeating that they are allegations as you rightly say.

Could I ask you briefly about your own position? You are still

suspended from the Labour Party for bringing the party into disrepute

over comments he made about Hitler and Zionism. Have you had any

conversation with the party about a way back? Basically, it is no four

months since I was suspended and I am still waiting for the committee

to sit down and decide whether what I said was true or not. I think they

are putting it off because the simple fact is that I have so much

evidence that what I was saying is true. Particularly striking, if you

go to the Holocaust memorial Linda Rougemont, one of the pamphlets they

sell to tourists is about the deal that Hitler did with the Zionists in

the 1930s. I don't think anyone can accuse the Holocaust Memorial

management of being anti-Semitic. You think they are delaying it

because there is so much evidence that it is true? So much evidence.

You probably know that the board of deputies of British Jews want Labour

to expel you immediately attribute reiterated your views on Hitler and

Zionism on Vanessa Feltz' radio programme. I am not surprised,

because if you look at the evidence that the chairman of the board of

deputies gave to Keith Vaz's committee, he opened by saying that

for Ken Livingstone to have said that Hitler was a Zionist is deeply

concerning. If I had said that, I would not just have apologised, I

will just gone to my doctor to check if I was in the first stages of

dementia. To suggest that is mad. He loathed and feared Jews all his life

but he did do a deal with the movement in the 1930s and that led

to 66,000 German Jews going to what is now Israel and escaping the

Holocaust. I will read you a quote from Marie Van Dozzell, vice

president of the board of deputies. Ken Livingstone seems to want to

rewrite history to make it seem like Zionism was responsible for the

Holocaust, which is as false as it is tacitly offensive. Every day that

Labour does not expel him is a stain on the party. It is quite simple. Go

on to the websites, check. You can see the interview with Norm and

Finkelstein defending everything I said. There are dozens and dozens of

books by academics looking at the fact that Hitler signed a deal and

worked with the Zionist movement throughout the 1930s. I have not

even criticise that. The Zionist movement had to deal with the fact

that Hitler was running Germany and if they were going to save the Jews,

they would have to do some sort of deal. Are you bothered that by

repeating your views you are hurting Jewish people? I said at the time,

if anybody has been offended by what I said, I am truly sorry but I have

been struck by a number of people who come up to me on the street and

say, I am Jewish and I know that what you said is true, do not give

into this bullying. The simple fact is that, and the reason I expected

that we have waited so long for this hearing, is that the people doing

work on this now that it is true. What is sending people, apart from

anything else, is the conflating of Hitler with Zionism. I am not

conflating Hitler with Zionism. I am simply saying that he did a deal

which was signed off about three or four months after he became

Germany's Chancellor, and he stuck to that deal right up until 1940.

During that period, 66,000 German Jews were moved to Palestine. Also,

Adolf Eichmann negotiated a deal with the Zionist movements to give

them guns to use in their underground army. He passed a law

that the only two flags to be flown in Germany were the swastika and the

Star of David. It is not just a one-off thing. There was a working

relationship over the 1930s. You cannot blame the Zionists. They were

in Germany and they had a horrendous and brutal government that they had

no option but to work with. Thank you for your time this morning. Ken

Livingstone, former mayor of London and former Labour MP expressing

support for his embattled colleague, Keith Vaz, still fighting for his

political life and repeating his views that Hitler supported Zionism.

Tomorrow, in London, we're holding a big audience programme

As you know Junior doctors are not be going on strike

But they will be going on strike for a week in a month's time.

And then again in another month and so on.

just postponed, and tomorrow we want to try and work out how

You are very welcome to join us, to take part - whether you're

a junior doctor, you work in the NHS, you've been treated

in hospital or are going to be affected by the 5-day strikes.

If you'd like to be part of the programme to share

your views - do email [email protected] to apply.

And hopefully we will see you in the morning. Also tomorrow, the

Paralympics start in Rio. The build-up has been fraught with

problems. It's been dogged by controversy

so far - hardly any tickets have been sold, there have

been rows over funding, rows over the classification of how

disabled athletes are - which has led to one of Britain's

top Paralympic medal hopes - Bethany Woodward - quitting

the games and unlike the Olympics, all Russian athletes are banned over

allegations of state-run doping. With the London Paralympic Games

widely accepted as the best Paralympic Games ever,

will Rio disappoint? Or will rivalry in