15/12/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


15/12/2016

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Hello it's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:08.:00:09.

This morning - Marieke Vervoort is a gold winning

:00:10.:00:16.

Paralympian from Belgium - a country where euthanasia, the

:00:17.:00:18.

She has decided that she wants to choose when she wants to die.

:00:19.:00:24.

In a poignant film she explains why she's reached that decision.

:00:25.:00:28.

More and more bad days than good days.

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And when the time comes and I only have bad days then I

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think I have a really good reason to say, "Now it's enough".

:00:41.:00:45.

In Aleppo - there are reports that the first convoy of people

:00:46.:00:51.

being evacuated from the east, is preparing to leave but it is not

:00:52.:00:54.

clear whether the fragile ceasefire is holding to allow people

:00:55.:00:57.

We will speak to Syrians in Aleppo and relatives here who are waiting

:00:58.:01:01.

One group of orphans trapped in city, issues

:01:02.:01:07.

TRANSLATION: Please let us evacuate Aleppo.

:01:08.:01:15.

We can't go outside because of the air

:01:16.:01:17.

We would really like you to help us leave Aleppo.

:01:18.:01:21.

Also, the latest revelations about abuse in football -

:01:22.:01:27.

we've learned that QPR carried on employing youth coach

:01:28.:01:31.

Chris Gieler after carrying out an internal investigation

:01:32.:01:33.

He is now at the centre of abuse allegations at the club; we'll bring

:01:34.:01:38.

And - fake doesn't normally cut it, but what about when it comes to fur?

:01:39.:01:48.

One anti-fur campaign group says the law's being broken as traders

:01:49.:01:52.

mislead shoppers into buying real animal fur when they think

:01:53.:01:55.

Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

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What would you do if your bank kept putting money into your account that

:02:18.:02:24.

wasn't yours? Not your money. You might have heard of the Australian

:02:25.:02:28.

guy that this happened to. We will speak to him later and he will

:02:29.:02:33.

explain what he spent all the money on. Apparently, apparently he

:02:34.:02:33.

reckons he spent $2 million. Do get in touch on all the stories

:02:34.:02:36.

we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag Victoria

:02:37.:02:40.

LIVE and If you text, Preparations are under

:02:41.:02:42.

way in the Syrian city of Aleppo for the evacuation

:02:43.:02:47.

of rebel-held areas. Both opposition fighters

:02:48.:02:49.

and officials from President Assad's government have confirmed that

:02:50.:02:51.

a new agreement has been reached. There's been uncertainty over

:02:52.:02:54.

whether the evacuation would go ahead because of a breakdown

:02:55.:02:58.

of a ceasefire yesterday. A convoy of ambulances lined up

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in Aleppo this morning, Inside the eastern side of the city,

:03:01.:03:08.

an operation to move the most seriously wounded is said

:03:09.:03:15.

to have started. When the ceasefire ended yesterday,

:03:16.:03:18.

the bombardment of Eastern Aleppo resumed, with the shells raining

:03:19.:03:20.

down on a very small It's almost certainly a violation

:03:21.:03:23.

of international law and most probably war crimes that

:03:24.:03:29.

are being committed right now as we speak, because you cannot

:03:30.:03:31.

possibly distinguish 47 orphans trapped by

:03:32.:03:33.

the shelling sent this message TRANSLATION: Please let

:03:34.:03:39.

us evacuate Aleppo. We can't go outside because of

:03:40.:03:48.

the air strikes and the shelling. We would really like you to

:03:49.:03:51.

help us leave Aleppo. In the US, the White House

:03:52.:03:57.

was indignant - but powerless. We continue to be deeply concerned

:03:58.:04:02.

about the situation in Aleppo. We are seeing the same reports

:04:03.:04:06.

you are, that innocent people are being slaughtered in the streets

:04:07.:04:10.

at the hands of the Assad regime, aided and abetted

:04:11.:04:13.

by the Russians and Iranians. Those concerns will only grow

:04:14.:04:16.

with every day that civilians remain trapped under the fire

:04:17.:04:22.

of their enemies in Eastern Aleppo. Our correspondent Tomos

:04:23.:04:28.

Morgan is in Beirut. Tomos, what is the latest? The

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latest is we're waiting for evacuation to begin. Russia says

:04:43.:04:49.

that the rebel fighters will be the second lot of evacuees from the

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city. They will be escorted to Idlib province. The first to be removed

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all but the injured. The International Red Cross and the Arab

:05:00.:05:05.

red Crescent will help evacuating those injured. It is understood

:05:06.:05:11.

around 4000 rebel fighters will then be moved to Idlib province and the

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sticking point in this deal has been Iran and Syria's insistence that any

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negotiation must be in tandem with pulling out their fighters from

:05:26.:05:30.

rebel held villages in north-western Syria. Now that deal has been agreed

:05:31.:05:35.

by the rebels, that is why the deal today seems to be sticking at the

:05:36.:05:38.

moment, but it is a very fragile deal. Ceasefire coming into place in

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the early hours of the morning. As far as we know the ceasefire is

:05:44.:05:46.

still holding, because this was meant to happen 24 hours ago and we

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had people live on air trapped in Aleppo and we could clearly hear the

:05:51.:05:55.

sounds of shelling as they spoke? That is incredibly right. It has

:05:56.:06:01.

been a fragile, tents and confusing situation for those held in the last

:06:02.:06:07.

rebel enclave in the east of Aleppo. As you say, yesterday appeared as

:06:08.:06:11.

though the ceasefire was holding out and people were about to get on the

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buses, people were lined up, but nobody got on them. The ceasefire

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was broken and the fighting resumed. At three o'clock this morning it's

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understood the ceasefire came back into force. The rebels saying last

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night the deal was back in play and this morning has blah, the militia

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group, confirming pro-government forces would now adhered to the

:06:33.:06:38.

deal. And later Russia confirming the same things. Thank you for the

:06:39.:06:42.

moment, Tomos. I know you will come back if things change.

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Annita McVeigh is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:06:45.:06:46.

Good morning and thank you. Good morning everyone.

:06:47.:06:52.

The Government has been told that a post-Brexit trade deal with the EU

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could take 10 years to finalise, and still fail.

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The BBC understands the advice was given privately

:06:58.:06:59.

by Britain's Ambassador to the EU, Sir Ivan Rogers.

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Downing Street has said he was simply passing on the views

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Our Assistant Political Editor Norman Smith is in Wetminster.

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Good morning, Norman. Number ten says it doesn't recognise this

:07:14.:07:18.

advice, nonetheless, does it need to be seen to addressing the concerns

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raised by Sir Ivan? It chimes with a lot of the other mood music we are

:07:26.:07:29.

hearing from Brussels. We had the chief negotiator for the European

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Commission saying just the other day they are not even going to talk to

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us about the trade deal until we leave, so we don't get to begin

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negotiations until 2019 and there is a view some in the commission are

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trying to put some stick about. They want to make this slow, protracted

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and painful for Britain, just as a warning to other EU countries if

:07:48.:08:15.

they are thinking about going down the Brexit route. The view of

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ministers here is this is all bluff, that actually we go into these

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negotiations in a pretty strong place, because Europe needs a deal

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with us. Why? Because it is argued we are the fifth-largest economy, we

:08:23.:08:25.

have the city and if you want to play hardball we can play hardball.

:08:26.:08:27.

We could potentially reduce taxes, deregulate and make Britain a more

:08:28.:08:30.

attractive place to invest. But what it tells us is timing is becoming

:08:31.:08:33.

one of the key battle grounds in the whole Brexit debate. Norman, thank

:08:34.:08:34.

you for that. The internet giant Yahoo says it's

:08:35.:08:35.

working with police to investigate a large scale hack which may have

:08:36.:08:37.

affected one billion The company says names,

:08:38.:08:39.

phone numbers, passwords and email addresses have been stolen

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during the attack which Here's our Washington

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reporter Laura Bicker. Other companies have been hacked,

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but Yahoo could have suffered a record-breaking information breach

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- for the second time - and it's taken them over three

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years to discover it. A few months ago the company

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announced that 500 million accounts Now they say double that number

:09:01.:09:02.

could have had information stolen in another data breach dating

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back to 2013. Names, e-mail addresses,

:09:08.:09:11.

phone numbers and passwords have been accessed, but they don't think

:09:12.:09:13.

bank or payment card The company believe

:09:14.:09:15.

a state-sponsored actor is to blame, This is the latest setback

:09:16.:09:19.

for Yahoo, an internet pioneer which has fallen on hard times,

:09:20.:09:28.

and it may affect a deal with Verizon which plans to buy

:09:29.:09:31.

Yahoo for $4.8 billion. Meanwhile, account holders are being

:09:32.:09:38.

urged to reset their passwords This programme has learnt that

:09:39.:09:41.

Queen's Park Rangers did investigate the behaviour of a former youth

:09:42.:09:53.

development manager Chris Gieler, who died in 2002,

:09:54.:09:55.

was allowed to continue to work He is now at the centre of child

:09:56.:09:59.

abuse allegations at the club. We'll have more on this

:10:00.:10:05.

at ten o'clock. The NSPCC says more than seventeen

:10:06.:10:09.

hundred calls have now been made to a telephone hotline set

:10:10.:10:12.

up because of alleged The hotline, which is being funded

:10:13.:10:14.

by the Football Association, The charity says it is encouraging

:10:15.:10:20.

people who have been The higher education

:10:21.:10:26.

admissions service, UCAS, says the gap between rich and poor

:10:27.:10:32.

students winning university places Teenagers from wealthy backgrounds

:10:33.:10:34.

are almost four times more likely to apply than those who received

:10:35.:10:38.

free school meals, Parents are being urged to spot

:10:39.:10:40.

the deadly signs of sepsis, as the Government launches

:10:41.:10:49.

a national awareness campaign today. Sepsis is a rare complication

:10:50.:10:53.

of an infection that sees the body's Children under the age of four

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are particularly at risk. The Government wants parents

:10:56.:11:01.

to know the symptoms All new police officers will have

:11:02.:11:03.

to be educated to degree level in the future,

:11:04.:11:13.

under sweeping changes to the way A paid three-year "degree

:11:14.:11:15.

apprenticeship" is among three options open to people wanting

:11:16.:11:18.

to join one of the 43 forces in England and Wales,

:11:19.:11:23.

under changes unveiled It's hoped the move will

:11:24.:11:24.

help forces to address The role of the front-line police

:11:25.:11:28.

officer has changed. They have to make more difficult

:11:29.:11:34.

decisions, just look at all the child abuse inquiries

:11:35.:11:39.

that are happening now. The professional

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development and support we give people in policing

:11:42.:11:47.

has to change with it. These proposals address

:11:48.:11:50.

that issue and don't exclude the good people we want to come into

:11:51.:11:53.

policing. Scientist and Iceland are close to

:11:54.:12:06.

drilling deeper into a volcano than ever before, reaching nearly 500

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kilometres down and temperatures hitting 500 Celsius. They plan to

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tap into a reservoir and harness the energy from the site that could

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power 50,000 homes, as our science correspondent reports.

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This is one of the most volcanically active places on earth,

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but now scientists plan to harness the power of volcanoes...

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This site's been operating continuously for 24 hours a day,

:12:32.:12:40.

using this huge piece of kit, with section after section

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of high-strength steel, they're almost 5000 metres down.

:12:44.:12:51.

We have never been this deep before, we have never been into this hot

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rock formations before, so we are optimistic

:12:55.:12:56.

that this will carry us a step into the future.

:12:57.:13:03.

But a project like this isn't risk-free.

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This is what happened in 2009, during an earlier attempt

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The drill unexpectedly hit magma, and was destroyed.

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The most recent eruption here was 700 years ago...

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Geologists say we've still got a lot to learn

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There is always some risk and that has to be evaluated,

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but there is also a risk if we do not understand the volcano.

:13:29.:13:32.

In Iceland, towns are already using energy generated from volcanoes,

:13:33.:13:38.

but this new approach could create up to ten times more electricity,

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and - if it works - this technology could be adopted

:13:42.:13:45.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

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Thank you very much. At about quarter to ten this morning we will

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talk about the differences between real and fake fur and talking about

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the kind of stuff that is sold at the cheaper end of the markets, like

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the bobble hats with fur pom-poms. The claim today is some retailers,

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and I do mean at the cheaper end of the market, are misleading

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customers. How would you know the difference if the label is unclear?

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We will talk about that at about 9:45am.

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Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

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use the hashtag Victoria LIVE, and, if you text,

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you will be charged at the standard network rate.

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There was a rare header hat-trick in the Premier League last night...

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Yes, in the West Brom and Swansea game last night. Scoring a hat-trick

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not that unusual, perhaps, but West Brom striker Solomon Rondon scored

:14:50.:14:52.

all three goals with his head. That is only the second time in Premier

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League history that that has happened. That show you the goals.

:14:56.:15:06.

The first, surrounded by defenders, but showed good strength

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The second, another great leap, and well

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And for the third, the defenders still allowed him

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So three headers in just 13 minutes, and a 3-1 win for West Brom.

:15:23.:15:35.

That was one of eight Premier League games last night

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All the big names picked up wins - Manchester United beat

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Crystal Palace, Manchester City won against Watford,

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Liverpool picked up three points too.

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They're six points clear at the top after their 1-0

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And it means they'll be this year's Christmas Number Ones.

:15:58.:16:02.

It was Cesc Fabregas who scored in the first half,

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to give Chelsea their 10th straight league win.

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Trying to chase Chelsea down are Liverpool, who are up to second.

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3-0 they beat Middlesborough, with two goals from

:16:10.:16:11.

Anthony Joshua and Klitschko have held their first press conference.

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How did it go? It was very civilised,

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unlike some press conferences we see with tables and punches

:16:30.:16:32.

being thrown. Joshua says he'll become a legend

:16:33.:16:35.

by beating Wladimir Klitschko Joshua's IBF title

:16:36.:16:37.

as well as the WBA and vacant IBO Joshua's won all 18 of his pro

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fights by knockout, and hopes To do the same against the former

:16:55.:17:07.

undisputed champion. It all seems nice and friendly, doesn't it?

:17:08.:17:15.

James Anderson is that of the fifth test against India.

:17:16.:17:20.

Yes, the 5th Test begins in Chennai tomorrow and England will be

:17:21.:17:23.

without their leading wicket taker James Anderson.

:17:24.:17:27.

He had been out since August with a shoulder injury before

:17:28.:17:30.

returning to play the second Test in India.

:17:31.:17:31.

Captain Alastair Cook has described him as "body sore"

:17:32.:17:34.

Anderson has taken just four wickets in the three Tests he's played

:17:35.:17:38.

The Test itself is effectively a dead rubber - England have

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And one more line to bring you before I go.

:17:43.:17:52.

The BBC Young Sports Personality of the Year has been announced,

:17:53.:17:54.

it goes to Paralympic swimmer Ellie Robinson.

:17:55.:17:56.

The 15-year-old set a new Paralympic world record when she won gold

:17:57.:17:59.

in the S6 50m butterfly in Rio, and also took bronze

:18:00.:18:02.

She received the award on the One Show on BBC 1 last night.

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She follows illustrious footsteps - the likes of Wayne Rooney,

:18:12.:18:14.

Andy Murray and Tom Daley have all previously won the award.

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They went on to do pretty well, didn't they?

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And Sports Personality of the Year is on BBC one on Sunday evening.

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We will bring you the latest news at half past as well.

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I know it's a week or so to go until Christmas,

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I know you're rushing around trying to get things sorted,

:18:43.:18:44.

but if you can, I really would like you to pause for ten

:18:45.:18:47.

It's about a gold winning Paralympian who has

:18:48.:18:50.

Marieke Vervoort is a wheelchair sprinter and has an incurable

:18:51.:18:55.

She's from Belgium, where euthanasia is legal.

:18:56.:19:00.

She decided in 2008 to sign papers that allow her

:19:01.:19:02.

You already know it's hugely controversial subject -

:19:03.:19:10.

many people strongly oppose euthanasia and disagree

:19:11.:19:11.

The 37-year-old athlete has had this illness for 20 years.

:19:12.:19:18.

She's paralysed, suffers chronic pain and fits regularly.

:19:19.:19:23.

Her sporting achievements tell a different story -

:19:24.:19:26.

she won gold and silver at the London Olympics in 2012,

:19:27.:19:29.

and brought home a silver and bronze medal from Rio this summer.

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This film is frank, honest and very poignant.

:19:35.:19:38.

It features a moment when Marieke passes out and you might find

:19:39.:19:41.

In effect, the film shows her day to day life dealing this illness.

:19:42.:19:48.

In a special report from 5 Live Sport,

:19:49.:19:50.

Sometimes when I'm really in pain and I'm crying and I can't breathe,

:19:51.:20:03.

and when it's really scary, I scream in my room, "I want to die.

:20:04.:20:09.

I don't want to live like this any more.

:20:10.:20:12.

When she was a little girl, she was healthy.

:20:13.:20:18.

The very first impression, of course, was she was joyful.

:20:19.:20:33.

She was a young woman and she was very happy.

:20:34.:20:52.

Every time a door got closed, another door has to open.

:20:53.:20:59.

So when I entered up in a wheelchair, at the beginning

:21:00.:21:02.

That I had nothing to reach any more.

:21:03.:21:08.

And when I saw, hey, I can do this, I can do that,

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I was so proud and still when I'm telling about it, I'm shaking again

:21:23.:22:02.

Other people stop with various sports because they said,

:22:03.:22:15.

"I'm too old", or, "I don't want to do it any more."

:22:16.:22:18.

It's not for me, it's totally different.

:22:19.:22:20.

My mind says, "Yeah, go forward, you like it,

:22:21.:22:30.

Marieke is stubborn, she knows what she wants.

:22:31.:23:22.

But she also knows what she doesn't want.

:23:23.:23:26.

And living a hell is not the life Marieke wants.

:23:27.:23:28.

So I immediately had the feeling that it would be something

:23:29.:23:31.

that you can control, and if she has the control

:23:32.:23:33.

I came a lot here and we cried together a lot, a lot, a lot.

:23:34.:23:46.

Yes, we still do that when I have a difficult

:23:47.:23:53.

And sometimes I just want to talk about euthanasia.

:23:54.:23:59.

It's going to be very difficult for her.

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But I ask if she wants to stay with me.

:24:11.:24:16.

She's the best that could ever happen to me.

:24:17.:24:35.

I want her to be with me when I decide to go.

:24:36.:24:43.

And probably, maybe she is the only person who will be with me.

:24:44.:24:48.

I think my parents love me so much, but I think it's too hard for them.

:24:49.:25:05.

I know she is independent and she makes her own decisions.

:25:06.:25:08.

Afterwards we get some time to talk a little bit about it.

:25:09.:25:13.

We don't talk much about these questions.

:25:14.:25:17.

You see her situation, then when you are a realist,

:25:18.:25:25.

When she feels better with that, I can live with that.

:25:26.:25:48.

But I don't know when the moment is coming.

:25:49.:25:56.

I don't know if I speak for both of us, but I prefer a natural death.

:25:57.:26:09.

I'm afraid of the moment when it will happen.

:26:10.:26:17.

I can't imagine the confrontation at the moment.

:26:18.:26:35.

When I'm happy, she is happy as well.

:26:36.:26:51.

And she's going to sit in another part of the house that

:26:52.:26:58.

When I'm crying, she's coming to lay down with me and she is licking

:26:59.:27:09.

This morning, when the nurse came to help me to wash and dress me,

:27:10.:27:25.

When I talk about real pain, then I say that you have such a lot

:27:26.:27:34.

of pain, that you lose consciousness from pain.

:27:35.:27:40.

And the tears are rolling on your cheeks and nobody can

:27:41.:27:44.

She's not going to do anything stupid any more.

:27:45.:29:15.

I wasn't happy with the thoughts or the sayings like,

:29:16.:29:18.

Now she doesn't talk about it any more.

:29:19.:29:29.

Now it's only we know there will be a day that she will call

:29:30.:29:32.

And I can't live any more my life the way I want to live it."

:29:33.:29:48.

Sometimes it's really difficult because my good days are getting

:29:49.:30:01.

More and more bad days than good days.

:30:02.:30:10.

And when the time comes that I have only bad days,

:30:11.:30:17.

and nothing really good, I have to say, it's enough.

:30:18.:30:25.

In the beginning we knew that it was a decision for the future.

:30:26.:30:34.

Now we know that the future is coming near.

:30:35.:30:40.

When we talk about her, she doesn't know what is near.

:30:41.:30:49.

With euthanasia, I will have a soft death without pain and

:30:50.:30:55.

with the people that I want to be with me.

:30:56.:30:59.

I wrote every person who was in my heart.

:31:00.:31:13.

And I want that everybody takes a glass of Cava

:31:14.:31:21.

and that they say, "Skol! Skol!"

:31:22.:31:25.

But thanks to that disease, she was able to do things that

:31:26.:31:36.

people only can dream about, because I was mentally so strong.

:31:37.:31:58.

Not everyone will agree with her choices, and some may

:31:59.:32:03.

We will be following Marieke's journey in the new year,

:32:04.:32:09.

and hearing from people on the other side of the euthanasia debate.

:32:10.:32:12.

You can watch that film again and share it via our programme page.

:32:13.:32:15.

That film made by five live sport. You can hear more about that story

:32:16.:32:25.

in a special report on five live sport tonight at eight o'clock.

:32:26.:32:29.

The messages from you. Someone on Facebook said, I understand, I

:32:30.:32:36.

suffer from chronic pain. If it was legal in this country I would decide

:32:37.:32:39.

when to go as well. Nobody knows what it is like to have unbearable

:32:40.:32:43.

pain day after day and less they suffer as well. Taking strong

:32:44.:32:48.

painkillers for years. I want a dignified death, not out of my mind

:32:49.:32:57.

in pain. I think Marieke is lucky for the choice she has. Another

:32:58.:33:01.

says, until you experience such a pain in such a condition you cannot

:33:02.:33:07.

condemn her position. On another, we don't choose when we come into this

:33:08.:33:12.

world, we should be up to choose when we leave it. It is an

:33:13.:33:15.

individual's choice. Do keep those coming in using the information

:33:16.:33:16.

on-screen. In Aleppo, 24 hours

:33:17.:33:18.

after a ceasefire collapsed, a new one is in place -

:33:19.:33:21.

hopefully allowing civilains trapped in the war-torn

:33:22.:33:24.

city to finally escape. We'll be speak again to the two men

:33:25.:33:26.

who were live on the programme yesterday as the sound of shelling

:33:27.:33:30.

got closer. And, would you know if the pom pom

:33:31.:33:38.

on that bobble hat you're wearing On anti-fur campaign group says some

:33:39.:33:42.

retailers are misleading shoppers. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:33:43.:33:54.

with a summary of today's news. Thank you very much, Victoria. Good

:33:55.:33:59.

morning. Preparations are under way

:34:00.:34:02.

in the Syrian city of Aleppo for the evacuation of rebel-held

:34:03.:34:05.

areas, after the Syrian government and opposition fighters confirmed

:34:06.:34:07.

a deal had been reached. A line of ambulances is waiting

:34:08.:34:09.

to bring out the sick and wounded There are reports that some

:34:10.:34:12.

ambulances attempting to leave Eastern Aleppo were shot

:34:13.:34:17.

at by pro-government forces. The Government has been told that

:34:18.:34:21.

a post-Brexit trade deal with the EU could take 10 years to finalise,

:34:22.:34:24.

and still fail. The BBC understands the advice

:34:25.:34:27.

was given privately by Britain's Ambassador to the EU,

:34:28.:34:33.

Sir Ivan Rogers. Downing Street has said

:34:34.:34:34.

he was simply passing on the views The internet giant Yahoo

:34:35.:34:37.

says its working with police to investigate a large scale hack

:34:38.:34:42.

which may have affected one billion The company says names,

:34:43.:34:45.

phone numbers, passwords and email addresses were stolen

:34:46.:34:49.

during the attack which It is the second time this year

:34:50.:34:50.

the company has announced This programme has learnt that

:34:51.:34:56.

Queen's Park Rangers did investigate the behaviour of a former youth

:34:57.:35:06.

development manager Chris Gieler, who died in 2002,

:35:07.:35:08.

was allowed to continue to work He is now at the centre of child

:35:09.:35:12.

abuse allegations at the club. We'll have more on this

:35:13.:35:16.

at 10 o'clock. The higher education

:35:17.:35:22.

admissions service, UCAS, says the gap between rich and poor

:35:23.:35:23.

students winning university places Teenagers from wealthy backgrounds

:35:24.:35:26.

are almost four times more likely to apply than those who received

:35:27.:35:33.

free school meals, That is a summary of the latest BBC

:35:34.:35:47.

News, Moore at ten o'clock. And with the latest sport, Jessica.

:35:48.:35:52.

An action packed night in the Premier League. All the title

:35:53.:35:55.

chasers were in action and picked up wins but it is Chelsea who will be

:35:56.:36:01.

the Christmas number ones. Six points clear at the top of the

:36:02.:36:04.

Premier League after Cesc Fabregas gave them a 1-0 win over Sunderland.

:36:05.:36:09.

On each of the four times the blues have won the league, they've been

:36:10.:36:12.

top at Christmas, maybe the footballing gods in their favour.

:36:13.:36:16.

Solomon Rondon becomes only the second person to score a headed

:36:17.:36:19.

hat-trick in Premier League history as he helped West Brom to a 3-1 win

:36:20.:36:26.

over Swansea. A fifth test against an Sri Lanka tomorrow and England

:36:27.:36:29.

will be without their leading wicket taker James Anderson. Alastair Cook

:36:30.:36:35.

described him as body saw and not worth the risk. England have already

:36:36.:36:40.

lost the series. I will be back just after ten with more.

:36:41.:36:45.

Thank you. I was just thinking there was another story coming!

:36:46.:36:51.

This time yesterday we were hearing from Syrians trapped in Aleppo

:36:52.:36:54.

The people who live in the biggest city in the country have been under

:36:55.:36:59.

siege for months with chronic food and fuel shortages.

:37:00.:37:07.

Today ceasefire is in place appears to be holding.

:37:08.:37:10.

There are reports that a bus carrying wounded residents has now

:37:11.:37:12.

left the eastern Sukkari district, heading to a pro-Syrian

:37:13.:37:15.

In a moment we speak to the two men we spoke to live yesterday, as you

:37:16.:37:26.

could clearly hear the sound of shelling. First, this film, which

:37:27.:37:32.

begins at how life used to be in Aleppo, Syria's biggest city.

:37:33.:37:52.

The situation inside Aleppo is Doomsday.

:37:53.:39:29.

I might just die now, speaking to you.

:39:30.:39:34.

The situation, now, is getting horrifically intensified.

:39:35.:39:40.

No-one can imagine what happened inside Aleppo

:39:41.:39:43.

We really hope to have a ceasefire soon

:39:44.:39:48.

because most people now who are dying here...

:39:49.:39:55.

They are in Aleppo and they cannot leave.

:39:56.:40:01.

Really, it's catastrophe, the situation.

:40:02.:40:04.

It might be one of the worst, you know,

:40:05.:40:10.

Are you comfortable with continuing to talk to us

:40:11.:40:15.

There is nowhere else that is safe in the whole east.

:40:16.:40:27.

People are being burnt to death and suffocated to death

:40:28.:40:36.

Don't believe any more ind the United Nation.

:40:37.:40:43.

Don't believe any more in the international community.

:40:44.:40:45.

Don't think that they are not satisfied with what's going on.

:40:46.:40:54.

That we are facing one of the most difficult...

:40:55.:41:06.

Or the most serious or the most horrible

:41:07.:41:12.

There is an urgent need for humanitarian teams to be deployed

:41:13.:41:51.

and given unfettered access to Aleppo, once government forces

:41:52.:41:53.

We are beginning to learn the price of not intervening.

:41:54.:42:03.

There are other solutions, such as using unmanned drones

:42:04.:42:05.

If we do nothing, if we just stand by and watch, then

:42:06.:42:13.

thousands more people in Syria will die in agony and millions

:42:14.:42:15.

in Britain will live with the shame of our inaction.

:42:16.:42:18.

They would make every effort to shoot down a British plane.

:42:19.:42:20.

The tragedy in Aleppo did not come out of a vacuum.

:42:21.:42:31.

It was created by a vacuum, a vacuum of Western

:42:32.:42:36.

leadership, of American leadership, British leadership.

:42:37.:42:55.

Let's speak to Haid Haid who left Syria four years ago,

:42:56.:44:16.

his sister is in East Aleppo, with her husband and baby.

:44:17.:44:21.

Also joining the conversation this morning is Peter Ford,

:44:22.:44:23.

a former British Ambassador to Syria.

:44:24.:44:25.

We can talk again to Monther Etaky and Zouhir Alshimale,

:44:26.:44:27.

both of whom we spoke to on the programme yesterday.

:44:28.:44:30.

Mr Etaky is an activist against President Assad's regime,

:44:31.:44:32.

and lives with there with his wife and baby; Mr Alshimale

:44:33.:44:34.

is a freelance journalist for AL Jazeera English,

:44:35.:44:36.

Middle East Eye and the New Arab website.

:44:37.:44:42.

As we were talking to them live yesterday we could clearly hear the

:44:43.:44:48.

sound of shelling getting closer and closer to them. When are you going

:44:49.:44:56.

to be able to leave, Monther? Actually, just waiting for the

:44:57.:45:01.

evacuation now out of the city. We are, we can't evacuate with the

:45:02.:45:09.

civilians, we have to go with the rebels, all of us. We are just

:45:10.:45:12.

waiting for the evacuation. Where are you going on what will

:45:13.:45:24.

happen when you get there? I am going to the only direction which is

:45:25.:45:33.

pointed for us which is the western countryside, to Idlib. I am sure I

:45:34.:45:42.

will try to find the safest place in this dangerous country. When we

:45:43.:45:49.

spoke to you yesterday, our British audience could clearly hear the

:45:50.:45:52.

sounds of shelling getting closer to you. Are you intending to get out or

:45:53.:45:59.

are you going to stay? Of course I am going to go out of East Aleppo.

:46:00.:46:08.

The regime will take control. The rebels will evacuate the East and

:46:09.:46:14.

the regime will take control. It does not make sense to me to stay. I

:46:15.:46:29.

am just intending to go and to leave for the countryside first and had

:46:30.:46:34.

some aroused after leaving East Aleppo right now. What has the last

:46:35.:46:45.

24 hours been like for you? The last 24 hours, there have been bombs and

:46:46.:46:55.

attacks. It is continuing to happen. I got an interview with the BBC

:46:56.:47:04.

Radio. There was the sound of the bombs and the attacks on East

:47:05.:47:12.

Aleppo. They have announced that we have the ceasefire active right now.

:47:13.:47:18.

They have stopped the bombs. The attacks were still ongoing. It has

:47:19.:47:27.

not stopped totally. Until now there is no bombing in the city. One

:47:28.:47:43.

person was killed and four injured. I'm going to bring it in Haid Haid,

:47:44.:47:50.

whose sister is there. When did you last hear from her? An hour ago.

:47:51.:47:57.

They are waiting and they don't know what will happen. Everyone is

:47:58.:48:05.

basically scared for their lives. If the ceasefire does not go through,

:48:06.:48:10.

they will definitely die. There is no way out. The regime will take

:48:11.:48:14.

revenge against those people, the same way it took revenge against

:48:15.:48:19.

other people who were confirmed by the UN and different agencies. More

:48:20.:48:23.

than 80 women and children were executed immediately. That is the

:48:24.:48:30.

fate they are waiting for. When you say she is waiting, they are waiting

:48:31.:48:34.

for a bus to take them to the same place, Idlib. She does not know

:48:35.:48:41.

anything. She is just waiting. Until now they were not told when they

:48:42.:48:50.

would be evacuated or where to. Everything is still vague. This is

:48:51.:48:55.

why the uncertainty of what will happen is the most difficult thing.

:48:56.:48:58.

Especially when you have a baby and do not know what will happen. You

:48:59.:49:03.

have experience as British ambassador to Syria. How do you

:49:04.:49:09.

reflect on the last 24 hours what do you see happening next? In the last

:49:10.:49:18.

several minutes there has been propaganda. Sorry. I will instruct.

:49:19.:49:30.

Why do you describe what you have heard from two men who live in

:49:31.:49:36.

eastern let out as propaganda? I am trying to do that. I am trying to

:49:37.:49:43.

give you facts. The UN has confirmed 82 executions. This is not true. The

:49:44.:49:49.

UN said it had received claims of such executions. Look, 99% of Aleppo

:49:50.:49:58.

is already in government hands. These people we have just been

:49:59.:50:03.

hearing from claims that there was genocide going on, that there were

:50:04.:50:07.

massacres, that there was a holocaust. So, with 99% of the

:50:08.:50:15.

territory now cleared, you could expect to find mounds of corpses.

:50:16.:50:18.

You would expect to find some evidence, just one verified

:50:19.:50:24.

instance. In fact there has not been one verified instance of summary

:50:25.:50:33.

execution. In fact, the Syrian army is extremely disciplined. There has

:50:34.:50:37.

been nothing on the scale that we have been led to believe. We are

:50:38.:50:45.

being manipulated. I am sorry. The BBC for weeks has allowed itself to

:50:46.:50:51.

be manipulated. Why are the rebel fighters always airbrushed out of

:50:52.:50:56.

the picture? Why do we never see images of these savage, militia men,

:50:57.:51:02.

Islamist 's, who have been preventing Aleppo girls go to

:51:03.:51:06.

schools? They have been using school as ammunition depots. Now to respond

:51:07.:51:19.

to that. Firstly, about the executions of the people in Aleppo

:51:20.:51:24.

city. We know about the hunters are people who have forcibly disappeared

:51:25.:51:34.

into the regime territory. That is by witnesses with the families of

:51:35.:51:41.

those men who know about that. Hundreds of people, they were

:51:42.:51:53.

executed before and in other areas. What about in eastern Aleppo? In the

:51:54.:52:02.

last 24, 48 hours, there have been reports on social media mostly

:52:03.:52:05.

without images. Reports of dead bodies piling up in the streets and

:52:06.:52:16.

reports of summary executions. Firstly, these reports cannot be

:52:17.:52:19.

captured in videos or filmed by videos. No one will be there. You

:52:20.:52:28.

can talk to the families which executed in these areas, the

:52:29.:52:34.

families of the relatives of these families, they will confirm that. It

:52:35.:52:40.

would be hard to independently verified. There are not many

:52:41.:52:46.

independent journalists in their, for obvious reasons. We don't give

:52:47.:52:57.

them the benefit of the doubt. They have been talking about genocide.

:52:58.:53:01.

The track record is abysmal. The journalist who has just spoken is on

:53:02.:53:08.

the payroll of a company controlling the Al Jazeera News channel. The

:53:09.:53:20.

freelance journalist contributes to many channels. It is unacceptable

:53:21.:53:38.

for me. We have been bombed by the Russians. The militia has been

:53:39.:53:47.

attacking us. There have been no consequences. The nonsense of talks

:53:48.:54:04.

about people who have been interfering in Aleppo and the whole

:54:05.:54:14.

Syrian situation. Anyone would be macro the city would not be brought

:54:15.:54:20.

down right now. I don't know why he is claiming that and talking about

:54:21.:54:28.

propaganda. Al Jazeera and the whole media are showing there's all around

:54:29.:54:32.

the world. It is about the stories of what is happening here. Thank you

:54:33.:54:43.

very much for talking to us. Peter Ford, the former British ambassador

:54:44.:54:55.

to Syria. Thank you very much for your time. I hope your sister gets

:54:56.:54:57.

out soon. It has been a long, hot and

:54:58.:55:12.

dangerous summer in Aleppo. You can see what damage has been done.

:55:13.:55:20.

Our Middle East Editor Jeremy Bowen

:55:21.:55:21.

will be here to give his thoughts on what happens next in Syria.

:55:22.:55:25.

Is the end of the battle of Aleppo, the start of the endgame?

:55:26.:55:27.

We will certainly ask him about how it is possible to report accurately

:55:28.:55:32.

when so few Janice are in the east of Aleppo. -- journalists.

:55:33.:55:38.

If you have a question you want to ask him,

:55:39.:55:40.

do send them in now, on email [email protected],

:55:41.:55:42.

or message us on Twitter - using the hashtag VictoriaLIVE.

:55:43.:55:45.

Would you know if the pom pom on that bobble hat you're wearing

:55:46.:55:48.

Would you actually know the difference?

:55:49.:55:51.

The label inside should tell you, of course,

:55:52.:55:53.

but the anti-fur campaign group, Humane Society International, says

:55:54.:55:55.

consumers don't know that the clothes they're buying

:55:56.:55:57.

are sometimes made with real animal fur, because there are no

:55:58.:56:00.

Claire Bass is from the campaign group,

:56:01.:56:03.

and has been out on the high street to see if shoppers can

:56:04.:56:06.

They are all under ?20, they were all bought in the UK.

:56:07.:56:17.

They all say they are made of 100% acrylic, but

:56:18.:56:19.

in fact, they are made of real animal fur.

:56:20.:56:21.

So, we're going to ask some people if they can tell the

:56:22.:56:24.

difference between real and fake fur.

:56:25.:56:25.

This is an animal called a raccoon dog.

:56:26.:56:38.

What do you think this bit's made of and the

:56:39.:56:40.

This is a real fur, this is real fur and this is

:56:41.:56:48.

Does that give you all the information you need, if you wanted

:56:49.:56:51.

I have a strange feeling its fox fur, fox tail.

:56:52.:57:06.

If I told you this is actually real animal fur, would that surprise you?

:57:07.:57:09.

I thought I was joking about saying fox.

:57:10.:57:15.

I don't think they should be selling them really,

:57:16.:57:17.

Let's talk to Claire Bass, who is from Humane Society

:57:18.:57:24.

International, which is campaigning for an outright ban on all fur

:57:25.:57:27.

And Mike Moser is from the British Fur Trade

:57:28.:57:31.

Association, which represents fur brokers, dealers

:57:32.:57:32.

What is it that retailers are doing that is wrong in your view? I should

:57:33.:57:46.

start by saying the vast majority of our high street chains in the UK

:57:47.:57:50.

reflect the British public opinion, which is thoroughly opposed to the

:57:51.:57:54.

cruelty of the third trade. They have fur free policies. What we have

:57:55.:57:59.

found at the cheaper end of the market with independent stores,

:58:00.:58:04.

market shops, online marketplaces, is products like these. They contain

:58:05.:58:10.

real fur. They are all very cheap. This coat was ?30. Bobble hats ?10.

:58:11.:58:18.

Gloves for ?8. This is real fur or contains real fire? That is real

:58:19.:58:26.

fur. -- fur. The problem with these garments is they do not contain a

:58:27.:58:31.

label saying they contain real fur. In some cases the label says, 100%

:58:32.:58:37.

acrylic, which is confusing. As your footage has shown, people choose a

:58:38.:58:43.

variety of cues to choose real fur from fake fur. You try to Felix

:58:44.:58:50.

Reading you? One is baked and one is real. I asked you, which is which?

:58:51.:59:01.

-- you try to feel it, don't you? That is the real one, isn't it? I

:59:02.:59:08.

have got it the right way around! People often do not have the luxury

:59:09.:59:15.

of a side by side comparison. Why would a retailer wanted to a

:59:16.:59:18.

customer? If they make clear it was real fur they could charge more.

:59:19.:59:25.

There is a misconception that fur is this luxury item. It is more

:59:26.:59:33.

expensive than fake fur. This is a product of the awful conditions on

:59:34.:59:38.

fur farms across the world. Life is so cheap. A strip of raccoon dog

:59:39.:59:45.

like on this coat can be sold whole for as little as ?1. What kind of

:59:46.:59:51.

fur is that? I cannot say exactly but I guess it would be Fox or

:59:52.:59:58.

raccoons dog. Would you know? It is raccoon. What do you think about the

:59:59.:00:05.

fact that customers are being duped? The labels are ineffectual. The

:00:06.:00:11.

starting point is, I absolutely agree with Claire. All consumers are

:00:12.:00:16.

entitled to clear and accurate information on the products they are

:00:17.:00:19.

buying. I am incredulous that anyone would want to mislead someone.

:00:20.:00:25.

Adding fur to a garment adds luxury and value. It is not the cheap end

:00:26.:00:31.

of the market. They are not part of the mainstream fur trade. They can

:00:32.:00:36.

say that fur is produced. I disagree vehemently with what Claire was

:00:37.:00:42.

saying. The welfare standards in fur farms has improved erratically and

:00:43.:00:48.

quality comes through. Good welfare is good quality fur. Can you just

:00:49.:00:53.

find the label? You say it has fur in it. Let's check the label, which

:00:54.:01:02.

we -- will not mention that. The label says 35% cotton, 65% this

:01:03.:01:07.

goes. The lining is this goes and nothing at all about the trim. That

:01:08.:01:09.

is misleading. There is statutory and voluntary.

:01:10.:01:20.

That is misleading. There is statutory legislation regarding

:01:21.:01:25.

animal products. In actual fact, it's a new directive, but this slips

:01:26.:01:33.

through. It's to do with the weight. Whether it slips through or not,

:01:34.:01:37.

that label is misleading, yes? I think it should state it contains

:01:38.:01:43.

fur. So is misleading? It's not misleading, it's just not stating it

:01:44.:01:51.

has fur. We would take that even further and say what type of fur. We

:01:52.:01:56.

advise people to say contains fur and its mink or Fox, we're very

:01:57.:02:01.

proud of this. Your advice to the consumer? Ask the retailer, do you

:02:02.:02:05.

know where your product comes from? If they don't know I would be

:02:06.:02:11.

sceptical, I'd say come to us and we will advise a place to buy. And your

:02:12.:02:15.

advice to the consumer? If they find a product they think is breaching

:02:16.:02:19.

regulations advice trading standards. Our overarching messages,

:02:20.:02:25.

why we have this on sale in the first place when the vast majority

:02:26.:02:29.

of the British public reject the fur trade. We banned fur in 2000 and we

:02:30.:02:33.

are importing it from awful farms overseas now on we should stop that.

:02:34.:02:38.

OK, thank you both for coming on the programme. Your views are welcome.

:02:39.:02:40.

He lost his job but discovered his bank

:02:41.:02:43.

was allowing him unlimited credit by mistake.

:02:44.:02:45.

For Luke Moore it was too good an opportunity to miss as splurged

:02:46.:02:48.

We'll be talking to him live from Australia a little later.

:02:49.:02:58.

That just before 11am. The latest news and sport in a moment, but

:02:59.:03:04.

first, the weather. If you have seen some sun-dried this

:03:05.:03:13.

morning, well done, not much to go around. For most of us are really

:03:14.:03:17.

cloudy day. One of the brighter spots is Dundee, beautiful sunrise

:03:18.:03:21.

here, just about making its way through the layers of cloud in the

:03:22.:03:24.

sky. That is the theme today, most of us without lot of cloud. A few

:03:25.:03:29.

brighter moments particularly in Wales and south-west England later

:03:30.:03:33.

on. At the same time we will probably see increasing cloud

:03:34.:03:36.

bringing some rain to the north-west of England, wet in Northern Ireland,

:03:37.:03:40.

East Anglia and south-east England the crowd may break up to give some

:03:41.:03:44.

limited sunny spells. Overnight tonight, where there are gaps in the

:03:45.:03:46.

cloud it will just in. Misty over the hills,

:03:47.:03:59.

outbreaks of rain pushing across Northern Ireland at that rain very

:04:00.:04:02.

slowly on Friday will continue its journey eastwards into Scotland,

:04:03.:04:03.

where it will be heavily for Dumfries Galloway. Most of England

:04:04.:04:06.

and Wales having a dry day on Friday, with a lot of cloud but a

:04:07.:04:09.

few breaks, perhaps some of these coming into south-east England and

:04:10.:04:12.

East Anglia. On the mild side, up to 12 degrees.

:04:13.:04:19.

I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme

:04:20.:04:22.

The latest revelations about abuse in football -

:04:23.:04:26.

Queens Park Rangers continued to employ a youth development

:04:27.:04:28.

officer at the centre of abuse allegations at the club

:04:29.:04:31.

after carrying out their own investigation into his

:04:32.:04:32.

We will bring you the exclusive story.

:04:33.:04:39.

It's unclear whether a plan to evacuate Syrian rebels

:04:40.:04:42.

and their families from their last enclave in Aleppo is underway.

:04:43.:04:44.

There are reports that the first convoy was turned back

:04:45.:04:47.

We spoke to one activist in the city.

:04:48.:04:49.

We are just waiting for the evacuation out of the city. We can't

:04:50.:05:01.

evacuate with the civilians, we have to go with the rebels, all of us. We

:05:02.:05:08.

are just waiting to plan for the evacuation.

:05:09.:05:10.

And what would you do if your bank just kept on putting

:05:11.:05:13.

money in your account, despite none of it being yours?

:05:14.:05:18.

Obviously you wouldn't spend it, you would tell them and they get it out,

:05:19.:05:23.

it's not my money. We will talk to an Austalian man

:05:24.:05:25.

who lived the high life on unlimited credit for two years -

:05:26.:05:33.

until the bank put a stope to it. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom,

:05:34.:05:35.

with a summary of todays news. Ministers have been warned that

:05:36.:05:40.

a final Brexit deal may take ten years to achieve,

:05:41.:05:44.

and still ultimately fail to be ratified by all the members

:05:45.:05:46.

of the European Union. The advice was given in October

:05:47.:05:48.

by Britain's Ambassador to the EU. Downing Street said Sir Ivan Rogers

:05:49.:05:51.

was simply passing on the views Theresa May has arrived in Brussels

:05:52.:06:06.

for an EU leaders summit. Topics under discussion will include

:06:07.:06:10.

migration and defence. Mrs May won't attend tonight for a session on

:06:11.:06:15.

Brexit and said it was right ministers held such talks without

:06:16.:06:18.

her. I welcome the fact the other leaders will be meeting to discuss

:06:19.:06:25.

Brexit tonight, as we are going to invoke Article 50 by the end of

:06:26.:06:28.

March next year. It is right the other leaders prepare for those

:06:29.:06:32.

negotiations, as we have been preparing. We will be leaving the EU

:06:33.:06:36.

and we want that to be a smooth and orderly process as much as possible.

:06:37.:06:40.

It's not just in our interest but the interest of the rest of Europe

:06:41.:06:45.

as well. Latest reports from Aleppo say some ambulances have moved

:06:46.:06:48.

towards the rebel held areas of the city to carry out an evacuation of

:06:49.:06:52.

the wounded. Earlier Syrian state television said all the procedures

:06:53.:06:57.

for evacuation were ready. The convoy of ambulances have been

:06:58.:07:00.

waiting to move on to an earlier agreement on an evacuation plan

:07:01.:07:05.

broke down yesterday. An activist opposed to President Assad's regime

:07:06.:07:08.

is trapped in eastern Aleppo with his wife and baby. Actually, we're

:07:09.:07:13.

just waiting for the out of the city. We can't evacuate with the

:07:14.:07:22.

civilians, we have to go with the rebels, all of us. We are just

:07:23.:07:30.

waiting to plan for the evacuation. Where are you going to, what's going

:07:31.:07:36.

to happen to you when you get there? I'm going to the only direction for

:07:37.:07:50.

us, the Western countryside, to Idlib. I'm sure I'll try to find the

:07:51.:07:55.

safest place in this dangerous country.

:07:56.:07:57.

The internet giant, Yahoo, says its working with police

:07:58.:07:59.

to investigate a large scale hack which may have affected one billion

:08:00.:08:02.

The company says names, phone numbers, passwords and email

:08:03.:08:09.

addresses were stolen during the attack, which

:08:10.:08:11.

It is the second time this year the company has announced

:08:12.:08:15.

This programme has learnt that Queen's Park Rangers did investigate

:08:16.:08:20.

the behaviour of a former youth development manager

:08:21.:08:22.

Chris Gieler, who died in 2002, was allowed to continue to work

:08:23.:08:27.

He is now at the centre of child abuse allegations at the club.

:08:28.:08:36.

We'll have more on this in the next few minutes.

:08:37.:08:39.

The NSPCC says more than 1700 calls have now been made to a telephone

:08:40.:08:42.

hotline set up because of alleged historical abuse in football.

:08:43.:08:47.

The hotline, which is being funded by the Football Association,

:08:48.:08:49.

The charity says it is encouraging people who have been afraid

:08:50.:08:54.

The higher education admissions service, Ucas,

:08:55.:08:59.

says the gap between rich and poor students winning university places

:09:00.:09:02.

Teenagers from wealthy backgrounds are almost four times more likely

:09:03.:09:06.

to apply than those who received free school meals,

:09:07.:09:09.

All new police officers will have to be educated to degree

:09:10.:09:16.

level in the future, under sweeping changes to the way

:09:17.:09:18.

A paid three-year degree apprenticeship is among three

:09:19.:09:22.

options open to people wanting to join one of the 43 forces

:09:23.:09:25.

in England and Wales, under changes unveiled

:09:26.:09:27.

It's hoped the move will help forces to address

:09:28.:09:33.

A major incident has been declared an old in Greater Manchester, where

:09:34.:09:46.

more than 70 firefighters are tackling a huge fire at a former

:09:47.:09:50.

paper mill. Around 100 properties have been evacuated.

:09:51.:09:53.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

:09:54.:09:57.

Thank you very much. This e-mail about further, regarding your story

:09:58.:10:05.

on real fur marked as fake fur it's not just the lower end of the

:10:06.:10:09.

market, we in Jersey have a high-end type store that sell woollen hats

:10:10.:10:14.

from China with a real ball on the top with no indication. When local

:10:15.:10:18.

media approach them regarding these hats having real fur with no

:10:19.:10:22.

indication of it, the reaction was they sell well, so why remove the

:10:23.:10:27.

item? View on Facebook says it is a man wants to wear real fur it's up

:10:28.:10:32.

to them, but disgusting to pass off these items as fake fur when it is

:10:33.:10:34.

genuine. Do get in touch with us

:10:35.:10:35.

throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:10:36.:10:37.

and if you text, you will be charged Starting with football this morning.

:10:38.:10:49.

West Brom striker Solomon Rondon makes history last night. The second

:10:50.:10:58.

headed hat-trick in Premier League history.

:10:59.:11:00.

It was Duncan Ferguson for Everton in 1997,

:11:01.:11:02.

Not a bad way for him to bag his first hattrick for the club.

:11:03.:11:16.

The first one, surrounded by defenders, but showed good strength

:11:17.:11:18.

The second, another great leap, and well directed.

:11:19.:11:24.

And for the third, the defenders still allowed him

:11:25.:11:26.

So three headers in just 13 minutes, and a 3-1 win for West Brom.

:11:27.:11:32.

That was one of eight Premier League games last night all the big

:11:33.:11:38.

Manchester United beat Crystal Palace, Manchester City

:11:39.:11:40.

won against Watford, Liverpool picked up

:11:41.:11:42.

three points too, but can anyone catch Chelsea?

:11:43.:11:46.

They're 6 points clear at the top after their 1-0

:11:47.:11:48.

And it means they'll be this year's Christmas Number Ones...

:11:49.:11:53.

It was Cesc Fabregas who scored in the first half,

:11:54.:11:55.

to give Chelsea their 10th straight league win.

:11:56.:12:01.

Trying to chase Chelsea down are Liverpool, who are up to second.

:12:02.:12:04.

3-0 they beat Middlesborough, with two goals from

:12:05.:12:06.

England will be without their leading wicket

:12:07.:12:21.

He had been out since August with a shoulder injury before

:12:22.:12:24.

returning to play the second Test in India.

:12:25.:12:26.

Anderson has taken just four wickets in the three Tests he's played

:12:27.:12:29.

Alastair Cook described him as body saw and not worth the risk. And

:12:30.:12:35.

finally... The BBC Young Sports Personality

:12:36.:12:37.

of the Year has been announced, it goes to Paralympic swimmer Ellie

:12:38.:12:40.

Robinson. The 15-year-old set a new Paralympic

:12:41.:12:42.

world record when she won gold in the S6 50m butterfly in Rio,

:12:43.:12:45.

and also took bronze She received the award

:12:46.:12:47.

on the One Show on BBC 1 last night. She follows illustrious footsteps -

:12:48.:12:55.

the likes of Wayne Rooney, Andy Murray and Tom Daley have

:12:56.:13:00.

all previously won the award. And Sports Personality of the Year

:13:01.:13:04.

is on BBC One on Sunday evening. More revelations about abuse

:13:05.:13:12.

in football this morning. This programme has learned

:13:13.:13:19.

exclusively that Queen's Park Rangers did investigate

:13:20.:13:22.

the behaviour of former youth development officer,

:13:23.:13:31.

Chris Gieler, in the late 1980s. But he was allowed to continue

:13:32.:13:33.

to work with children He is now at the centre of child

:13:34.:13:35.

abuse allegations at the club. As this scandal goes on it becomes

:13:36.:13:43.

clear that this is not just about sexual abuse, this is about what

:13:44.:13:48.

clubs might have known ten or 20 years ago, what actions they might

:13:49.:13:51.

have taken back then to protect young players. Today we have more

:13:52.:13:55.

information about Chris Gieler, a former head scout at Queens Park

:13:56.:14:00.

Rangers football club. There is a photograph of him here. He is now

:14:01.:14:05.

dead, passed away in 2002 aged 56. He worked at the club right until

:14:06.:14:09.

that point. He has already been named in allegations relating to

:14:10.:14:16.

child sexual abuse at Kubiak? Yes. He was there 30 years, joined in

:14:17.:14:22.

1971. He became youth development manager. In charge of the entire

:14:23.:14:26.

youth setup at QPR. The club have already said in a statement last

:14:27.:14:31.

week they are aware of allegations involving Chris Gieler that relate

:14:32.:14:36.

to child sexual abuse back in the 1980s and nineties. And you have

:14:37.:14:40.

been speaking to former players about this? Yes, more than ten and

:14:41.:14:45.

members of staff. All at the moment want to remain anonymous, they don't

:14:46.:14:49.

want us to share their names. We spoke to one former player last week

:14:50.:14:57.

who came on the programme and talked about it, who spoke about what he

:14:58.:14:59.

thought was a sexual assault by Mr Gieler. He said he was in a changing

:15:00.:15:02.

room and Mr Gieler attempted to touch his genitals. He was 13 or 14

:15:03.:15:07.

at the time and shouted at him and pushed him away. We have spoken to

:15:08.:15:12.

many others who talks about his inappropriate behaviour. One former

:15:13.:15:15.

player turned professional said he would often see all boys likes to

:15:16.:15:17.

make sure they were developing properly and chapter boys when they

:15:18.:15:21.

were naked in the shower after a game. He went on to say this made

:15:22.:15:24.

him and other players involved feel very uncomfortable about it. Others

:15:25.:15:30.

also spoke, and this came up again and again, about gifts Mr Gieler

:15:31.:15:34.

would buy, quite expensive gifts for his preferred young footballers. We

:15:35.:15:38.

are talking about hundreds of pounds spent on sporting equipment, boots

:15:39.:15:43.

and also clothes to wear casually, subsidised holidays when that kind

:15:44.:15:47.

of thing. While some footballers spoke about how this man was quite

:15:48.:15:50.

strange concerned about him, others said he was a genuinely nice man and

:15:51.:15:54.

had players best interest at heart. There was a mix of use.

:15:55.:16:01.

We understand there was an investigation into his behaviour

:16:02.:16:12.

back into the late 80s. 1987, 1988 after a change of ownership at the

:16:13.:16:16.

club. They were questioned by senior members of staff about his

:16:17.:16:20.

behaviour. They do not know the outcome of the investigation. It has

:16:21.:16:24.

not been established whether they found abuse at the end of it at all.

:16:25.:16:29.

After this investigation, his behaviour continued the way it was

:16:30.:16:34.

before. Even if they could not find evidence of abuse, something should

:16:35.:16:40.

have been done, should have changed, so he could not act inappropriately.

:16:41.:16:45.

This player said, the club was complicit after that point and did

:16:46.:16:49.

not act on it. They should have put a safeguarding policy in place. They

:16:50.:16:55.

were his words. What does QPR say? They say it is difficult and

:16:56.:16:58.

inappropriate to comment on these claims. They do not want to get in

:16:59.:17:05.

the wake of any ongoing police or FA investigation. QPR is aware of the

:17:06.:17:09.

historical allegations and its employee relating to child abuse in

:17:10.:17:13.

football. The club takes these allegations very seriously. They

:17:14.:17:18.

said any form of abuse has no place in football or society. We have new

:17:19.:17:25.

figures out from the NSPCC showing the extent. The NSPCC setup with the

:17:26.:17:32.

football Association a new helpline three weeks ago is the civic level

:17:33.:17:36.

football. They said they have received 1700 calls. That is more

:17:37.:17:40.

than 80 calls a day. After last week, the police chief said, 83

:17:41.:17:45.

potential suspects they are looking at a 93 clubs involved you can see

:17:46.:17:50.

how widespread the scandal is becoming. A reminder that the NSPCC

:17:51.:17:55.

has that free helpline which offers advice and support.

:17:56.:17:57.

And if you've been affected by ay of the issues we've been talking

:17:58.:18:04.

about, you can find a list of helplines at the bbc action line.

:18:05.:18:07.

Next year your council tax bill will most likely rise to pay

:18:08.:18:15.

One day most of us will probably need social care.

:18:16.:18:20.

Social care means help and support for elderly people which can enable

:18:21.:18:26.

It can include anything from help getting out of bed

:18:27.:18:31.

and washing, through to care homes and drop-in centres.

:18:32.:18:36.

Social care can be provided by private carers or carers

:18:37.:18:40.

rise of up to 6%, which the government

:18:41.:18:46.

won't plug the massive funding gap that's estimated to reach

:18:47.:18:51.

Let's talk to Conservative MP Dr Sarah Wollaston MP, who is chair

:18:52.:19:00.

Lorna Wheatley and her 17-year-old daughter Lucy -

:19:01.:19:06.

Lorna's mother has sold her house to pay for care in a care home,

:19:07.:19:09.

And Ryan Godwin, who owns Holme Manor Care Home in Lancashire

:19:10.:19:15.

Councillor Graham Chapman, deputy leader

:19:16.:19:27.

of Nottingham City Council is here too.

:19:28.:19:31.

Is this the right idea from your government to allow councils in

:19:32.:19:38.

England and Wales to raise council tax and put more money into social

:19:39.:19:43.

care? It is a short-term approach was that we needed a longer term

:19:44.:19:49.

solution. I personally would like to see political parties working

:19:50.:19:52.

together to look at how we can have a solution. It is very depressing,

:19:53.:19:58.

sitting in the House of Commons and hearing this approach to something

:19:59.:20:02.

that is absolutely essential for us to sort out now. Many of us across

:20:03.:20:06.

the Commons are urging the Government and the opposition to

:20:07.:20:09.

work together. We have had commissions over the years. Loads of

:20:10.:20:16.

ideas. Whoever is in power at the time has said, we cannot possibly do

:20:17.:20:21.

that. It will mean all of us looking at how we pay for this. Frank Field

:20:22.:20:26.

has put forward some very good suggestions. He is a Labour MP about

:20:27.:20:30.

how we can use national insurance, how we can build in some

:20:31.:20:36.

intergenerational fairness about funding social care. What has been

:20:37.:20:40.

announced later today would be a short-term way of bringing in extra

:20:41.:20:43.

emergency cash. There is a crisis across social care. We know this. It

:20:44.:20:49.

means more and more people, a million people, are not having care

:20:50.:20:53.

needs met. More are ending up in expensive settings where it is not

:20:54.:20:57.

safe for them to be in our hospitals are having a huge knock-on effect on

:20:58.:21:04.

the NHS. If there is extra money we need to stabilise the system now. If

:21:05.:21:11.

councils do put up council tax it will disproportionately affect

:21:12.:21:14.

poorer people on lower incomes. The difficulty is that the areas that

:21:15.:21:18.

can raise the most money, the wealthier areas, have more people

:21:19.:21:22.

paying for themselves in any case. Those areas which of a disadvantage

:21:23.:21:26.

are less able to raise money and have more people who are not able to

:21:27.:21:31.

fund themselves. There needs to be an equalising mechanism so that we

:21:32.:21:35.

can move money around the system, so it is therefore everybody, in my

:21:36.:21:41.

view. I wonder if you can tell us about your mum and what has

:21:42.:21:48.

happened. The reason my mum is in a home now is because she had a road

:21:49.:21:56.

traffic accident some 27 years ago. Remarkably, she kept her

:21:57.:21:59.

independence until the last few years. She is an amputee and also

:22:00.:22:05.

had head injuries and various injuries throughout her body. She is

:22:06.:22:10.

now 82. She fought to stay living in hiring home for as long as she

:22:11.:22:14.

possibly could. There came a point three years ago, when she was

:22:15.:22:20.

falling several times a day was not able to manage on her own anymore.

:22:21.:22:25.

We took her to live with us. We managed for a year. I was struggling

:22:26.:22:35.

by that to keep the family... It was a very tense situation. -- by that

:22:36.:22:45.

point. The local authority put her into a care home. After she had been

:22:46.:22:50.

around about six months, we had sold mum's how's and half the value of

:22:51.:22:57.

that went to pay for her continuing care in the home. That money has now

:22:58.:23:05.

run out. That ran out in April. As the local council stepped in? I do

:23:06.:23:08.

not know that automatically is the right word. I approached them for

:23:09.:23:15.

assistance. I continued paying in the meantime. They came and did an

:23:16.:23:19.

assessment of mum and made a decision. The decision being that,

:23:20.:23:26.

in our opinion, ma'am would have to move to what they classify as extra

:23:27.:23:31.

care independent living. What does that mean? It means an independent

:23:32.:23:42.

apartment we would have to furnish. Care staff would have to come in

:23:43.:23:45.

four times a day to make mum of drink, get her up and washed. They

:23:46.:23:54.

would pay for that? They would make a contribution. She categorically

:23:55.:23:58.

does not want that. The whole idea frightens her very much. It is your

:23:59.:24:07.

grandma. What do you think the uncertainty is about and how is it

:24:08.:24:12.

affecting her and her outlook? It is very hard knowing that is my grandma

:24:13.:24:16.

who is in that position. She is not able to have independence. It upsets

:24:17.:24:27.

you, doesn't it? Yes. You own a care home business with you why. The

:24:28.:24:30.

money the council plays with you for places great you say is not enough

:24:31.:24:36.

to cover the bills. That is right. The money the council has paid over

:24:37.:24:40.

a period of years, we have seen this coming for a long time, it has

:24:41.:24:45.

gradually eroded so that the amounts paid by the council are not really

:24:46.:24:49.

relevant completely to the total costs of care. There is a shortfall

:24:50.:24:57.

in Council funding today. Does that mean you are putting money in to pay

:24:58.:25:02.

for other people in your care home, which reduces your profits. Is that

:25:03.:25:07.

what happened? Is it a lesser service? The idea it is that we

:25:08.:25:11.

offer the best standard of service that we can put that there is no

:25:12.:25:15.

such thing as a poor standard of care. The care industry has been

:25:16.:25:20.

heavily regulated. You might be aware of that. We have to provide,

:25:21.:25:26.

and indeed want to provide, are very good standard of care for people.

:25:27.:25:30.

Vulnerable adults who are living to us on a long-term basis. What we

:25:31.:25:34.

know from the Care Quality Commission as they have described

:25:35.:25:37.

social care is being at a tipping point. What is happening as a result

:25:38.:25:41.

of these pressures as they are seeing care home providers pulling

:25:42.:25:47.

out of the market. We are seeing provision for people within their

:25:48.:25:50.

own homes, people pulling out of that. In my constituency I know of

:25:51.:25:54.

one individual who was living in her own home with support but now that

:25:55.:25:59.

support is no longer available ( home, she has had to move to a

:26:00.:26:02.

residential setting where she did not want to be. This is a real

:26:03.:26:09.

concern for everybody. I am confused. Your party, one of its

:26:10.:26:14.

manifesto promises, was a cap on care costs. You would only have to

:26:15.:26:19.

contribute if you have more than ?72,000 and said of the current

:26:20.:26:24.

?23,000. They have now you turned on that. They have delayed it. When

:26:25.:26:29.

they brought in the National Living Wage which was a good thing, care

:26:30.:26:33.

staff were relatively low-paid. It was a good thing to bring it in but

:26:34.:26:37.

meant it was completely unaffordable. Local government asked

:26:38.:26:44.

the Government to delay its they could implement the living wage and

:26:45.:26:48.

postponed bringing in the cap. You say it will happen if then Chile.

:26:49.:26:53.

They have to. We legislated for it in the last Parliament. What would

:26:54.:27:00.

happen if they did not? They would have to repeal the legislation.

:27:01.:27:05.

There is no sanction if they did not follow through on the legislation.

:27:06.:27:09.

They are the Government. They can do what they want. They have said they

:27:10.:27:15.

delayed it. My view is that they went into the last election with

:27:16.:27:19.

this as a promise. It was not an issue. People thought it was done

:27:20.:27:21.

and dusted. They cannot delay it again. Do you think, another promise

:27:22.:27:29.

your government made, which was the triple lock on pensions, does it

:27:30.:27:33.

make sense to keep that in place you have people with a reasonably decent

:27:34.:27:37.

pension stuck in a hospital because there is no funding for them, to get

:27:38.:27:42.

the Mac home so they can live independently? This is something the

:27:43.:27:46.

head of the NHS was talking about when he gave evidence to the

:27:47.:27:49.

communities and local Gutmann community yesterday. There is a

:27:50.:27:52.

range of options. It is not the me to set out what that will be. We

:27:53.:27:56.

need a cross-party group of people looking at this very closely saying,

:27:57.:28:00.

what are all the options that are possible? That was one of them.

:28:01.:28:03.

Let's try to bring in the fairest mechanism. We have to make sure that

:28:04.:28:09.

older people are cared for with dignity. We have had 31% increase in

:28:10.:28:12.

the number of people who are living to 85 and over in the last decade.

:28:13.:28:16.

It is a great success but we need to make sure they are cared for with

:28:17.:28:21.

dignity when they need it. Is a council tax rise for all of us in

:28:22.:28:24.

England and Wales the right way to try to plug a bit of this shortfall?

:28:25.:28:32.

I think, saying a bit is hitting the nail on the head. It is not going

:28:33.:28:42.

to... It is only a very small part. I am going to bring in Councillor

:28:43.:28:46.

Graham Chapman on that point. I looking forward to putting up

:28:47.:28:50.

council tax bills that your council tax payers? No. It is dumping the

:28:51.:28:56.

costs on the council taxpayer. Sarah Williston was right. The poorer the

:28:57.:29:00.

area, the more it will cost them. You are putting the onus onto very

:29:01.:29:06.

poor people. What would solution be? The point I have to make if we think

:29:07.:29:11.

it will only raise about an extra million for us beyond what we are

:29:12.:29:14.

expecting. The pressures on us are 10 million. It is putting an

:29:15.:29:20.

Elastoplast over it. Then they will take off the last passed before the

:29:21.:29:23.

wound has healed. It is not the right thing to do. There are

:29:24.:29:28.

solutions. There are a range of options. They are reducing

:29:29.:29:32.

corporation tax, a very silly thing to do. I will not go into that. You

:29:33.:29:38.

do not mean reducing corporation tax, you mean reversing the cut in

:29:39.:29:42.

corporation tax, don't you? Effectively. The Government is

:29:43.:29:46.

taking a lot more in business rates that it is handing back to councils.

:29:47.:29:51.

There is a substantial amount in a pot. We'll so need to be told in

:29:52.:29:55.

getting very mature about it as a nation, you cannot have decent care

:29:56.:30:00.

and not be taxed. We should be talking about national taxation in

:30:01.:30:03.

order to be able to solve this problem. In the short term you need

:30:04.:30:07.

to look at how much the Government is retaining from business rates and

:30:08.:30:11.

it should be redistributed. The growth in business rates would cover

:30:12.:30:15.

the cost. You cannot keep putting the onus on the council taxpayer,

:30:16.:30:19.

especially in poorer areas. The other point that needs to be made is

:30:20.:30:24.

it is not just social care that is suffering, it is other services

:30:25.:30:29.

within Council, in order to pay for the gap in social care funding. A

:30:30.:30:34.

rise in council tax? You will not have a choice. Do you think that is

:30:35.:30:38.

the right way to pay for social care? We work in a dynamic

:30:39.:30:42.

environment. The problem is here and now. People need the care today the

:30:43.:30:46.

study cannot say, perhaps at some time in the future some more need

:30:47.:30:50.

care. Of course, we're all getting older. We have become older or maybe

:30:51.:30:56.

lost our health. The need is today that something needs to be done

:30:57.:31:00.

today. Certainly I think so. Thank you.

:31:01.:31:09.

We have a statement from the Communities Secretary,

:31:10.:31:17.

Sajid Javid will be live on the BBC News Channel

:31:18.:31:20.

a little later this morning, at around 11:15.

:31:21.:31:22.

you can get a statement from him then.

:31:23.:31:24.

It's been a long, hot and dangerous summer in the city of Aleppo and you

:31:25.:31:35.

can see it. Our Middle East Editor Jeremy Bowen

:31:36.:31:37.

will be here to give his thoughts Is the end of the battle of Aleppo,

:31:38.:31:40.

the start of the endgame? If you have a question

:31:41.:31:45.

you want to ask him - do send them in now -

:31:46.:31:47.

on email [email protected], or message us on twitter -

:31:48.:31:50.

using the hashtag VictoriaLIVE. And, he lost his job

:31:51.:31:52.

but discovered his bank was allowing him unlimited

:31:53.:31:54.

credit by mistake. For Luke Moore it was too good

:31:55.:31:56.

an opportunity to miss, So he spent loads and loads and

:31:57.:32:02.

loads and loads, hundreds of thousands of dollars. We are going

:32:03.:32:05.

to ask him why was he so stupid in the next half-hour.

:32:06.:32:11.

With the News here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom.

:32:12.:32:15.

Thank you, good morning. In the past few minutes the Russian news agency

:32:16.:32:22.

has said the evacuation of 5000 Syrian rebels and their family

:32:23.:32:25.

members from eastern Aleppo has begun. Latest reports say an

:32:26.:32:30.

evacuation of the wounded is also underway. Ambulances have been on

:32:31.:32:34.

stand-by since an earlier agreement on an evacuation plan broke down

:32:35.:32:36.

yesterday. Ministers have been warned that

:32:37.:32:38.

a final Brexit deal may take ten years to achieve,

:32:39.:32:41.

and still ultimately fail to be ratified by all the members

:32:42.:32:43.

of the European Union. The advice was given in October

:32:44.:32:45.

by Britain's Ambassador to the EU. Downing Street said Sir Ivan Rogers

:32:46.:32:48.

was simply passing on the views This programme has learnt that

:32:49.:32:51.

Queen's Park Rangers did investigate the behaviour of a former youth

:32:52.:32:57.

development manager Chris Gieler, who died in 2002,

:32:58.:32:59.

was allowed to continue to work He is now at the centre of child

:33:00.:33:06.

abuse allegations at the club. The internet giant Yahoo

:33:07.:33:12.

says its working with police to investigate a large scale hack

:33:13.:33:14.

which may have affected one billion The company says names,

:33:15.:33:17.

phone numbers, passwords and email addresses were stolen

:33:18.:33:20.

during the attack which It is the second time this year

:33:21.:33:22.

the company has announced A major incident has been declared

:33:23.:33:27.

in Oldham in Greater Manchester, where more than 70 firefighters

:33:28.:33:34.

are tackling a huge fire Around 100 properties

:33:35.:33:36.

have been evacuated. That's a summary of the latest news,

:33:37.:33:44.

join me for BBC Newsroom Here's the latest

:33:45.:33:47.

sport now with Jess. It was busy night in

:33:48.:33:52.

the Premier League, with all the title chasers picking

:33:53.:33:56.

up wins - Manchester United, But it's Chelsea who'll be

:33:57.:33:59.

Christmas number ones. They're six points clear

:34:00.:34:02.

at the top of the table, after Cesc Fabregas gave them a 1-0

:34:03.:34:04.

win over Sunderland. On each of the four times the Blues

:34:05.:34:09.

have won the league, Salamon Rondon becomes only

:34:10.:34:12.

the second person to score a headed hattrick in Premier League history,

:34:13.:34:22.

as he helped West Brom And the 5th Test begins in Chennai

:34:23.:34:24.

tomorrow for England's cricketers, but they'll be without their leading

:34:25.:34:28.

wicket taker James Anderson. Captain Alastair Cook has

:34:29.:34:33.

described him as "body sore" England have already

:34:34.:34:35.

lost the series. That is all the sport for now.

:34:36.:34:43.

Cheers. A post-Brexit trade deal

:34:44.:34:46.

between the UK and EU could take up to ten years to negotiate -

:34:47.:34:49.

that's according to Britain's The BBC understands Sir Ivan Rogers

:34:50.:34:54.

has warned ministers a deal might not be done

:34:55.:34:57.

until the mid-2020s, and that an agreement could ultimately be

:34:58.:35:01.

rejected by other EU member states. Let's get the latest

:35:02.:35:04.

from our political guru, I guess when people voted to leave

:35:05.:35:15.

the EU most of us thought it would be done and dusted in a few years.

:35:16.:35:20.

Not so, it seems, according to our man in Brussels, Sir Ivan Rogers,

:35:21.:35:26.

who says actually to get a final trade deal, get everything sorted

:35:27.:35:29.

out could take a decade and even then, it might not be possible. Any

:35:30.:35:33.

final arrangement would have to be signed off by all 27 other EU

:35:34.:35:39.

parliaments. It might be Mission impossible, and that is becoming a

:35:40.:35:43.

bit of a bone of contention, because listening to some of the voices in

:35:44.:35:46.

Brussels, it looks like they think this is going to take an awfully

:35:47.:35:50.

long time. We had the chief negotiator for the European

:35:51.:35:54.

Commission the other day saying we're not even going to talk to you

:35:55.:35:58.

about a trade deal until you've left in a couple of years' time. So we

:35:59.:36:02.

don't even get to start to talk about what sort of trade

:36:03.:36:06.

arrangements we might have until 2019, and there is a view that may

:36:07.:36:10.

be summit in Brussels are just trying to make this difficult for

:36:11.:36:16.

us. They're trying to put a bit of stick about. Why? Because they want

:36:17.:36:19.

to discourage other countries from going down the Brexit Road. That is

:36:20.:36:24.

one of the things they are likely to discuss this evening at the EU

:36:25.:36:28.

summit in Brussels, where they will have up to summit dimmer that

:36:29.:36:34.

Theresa May won't be invited to, because they want to club together

:36:35.:36:38.

in private to discuss tactics about how they are going to deal with us.

:36:39.:36:42.

Arriving for the summit this morning Mrs May was asked all about this,

:36:43.:36:46.

about the trade deal and about that dinner.

:36:47.:36:48.

I welcome the fact that the other leaders will be meeting

:36:49.:36:51.

to discuss Brexit tonight, as we are going to invoke Article

:36:52.:36:54.

50, trigger the negotiations, by the end of March next year.

:36:55.:36:58.

It's right that the other leaders prepare for those negotiations,

:36:59.:37:01.

We will be leaving the EU, we want that to be a smooth and orderly

:37:02.:37:06.

It's not just in our interest, it's in the interests

:37:07.:37:09.

Mrs May walking away from questions about if it would take ten years.

:37:10.:37:24.

Others have been talking about this. We heard from a government minister

:37:25.:37:30.

in the Commons who played down the idea it could take ten years. He

:37:31.:37:34.

said look at the deal between the US in Jordan, it only took four months

:37:35.:37:38.

so it doesn't have to go on for ever and a day. And there's been a bit of

:37:39.:37:44.

a blowback against Sir Ivan Rogers from Brexiteers, saying this is the

:37:45.:37:49.

guy that got it all wrong regarding David Cameron's negotiations with

:37:50.:37:51.

other EU leaders. Sir Ivan is a a professional

:37:52.:37:53.

politician and was in the Foreign Office for six years,

:37:54.:37:56.

but I do fear that he's been rather scarred by his own pessimism

:37:57.:37:59.

in relation to the renegotiation, which didn't succeed

:38:00.:38:01.

in persuading the British people to stay in the EU,

:38:02.:38:03.

and that may have But we ought to have a worst-case

:38:04.:38:05.

scenario, but the truth is, what we're going to be aiming

:38:06.:38:09.

for is the best case scenario, and that includes barrier free

:38:10.:38:12.

trade, which is good for Britain So, what does this all tell us? I

:38:13.:38:23.

think this tells us it's going to be a pretty bruising set of

:38:24.:38:26.

negotiations. What we're seeing now here is the initial manoeuvring,

:38:27.:38:31.

with the European Commission and others in Europe saying, well, this

:38:32.:38:36.

is going to be difficult, it's going to take you at least ten years on

:38:37.:38:40.

the British government saying, you know what? You need us as much as we

:38:41.:38:45.

need you, we can do this pronto, pronto. We are beginning to see each

:38:46.:38:50.

side square up to the other. Thank you very much, Norman. Let's bring

:38:51.:38:55.

you the latest from Aleppo. In the past few minutes the Russian news

:38:56.:39:01.

agency has said the evacuation of 5000 Syrian rebels and their family

:39:02.:39:08.

members from eastern Aleppo has begun. In a moment we will speak to

:39:09.:39:16.

our middle east correspondent to get his thoughts. Thank you for your

:39:17.:39:20.

question so far for him. First, this film, that begins with how life used

:39:21.:39:23.

to be in Aleppo. Syria's largest city...

:39:24.:40:03.

The situation inside Aleppo is Doomsday.

:40:04.:41:21.

I might just die now, speaking to you.

:41:22.:41:26.

The situation, now, is getting horrifically intensified.

:41:27.:41:33.

No-one can imagine what happened inside Aleppo

:41:34.:41:35.

We really hope to have a ceasefire soon

:41:36.:41:41.

because most people now who are dying here...

:41:42.:41:47.

They are in Aleppo and they cannot leave.

:41:48.:41:53.

Really, it's catastrophe, the situation.

:41:54.:41:55.

It might be one of the worst, you know,

:41:56.:42:06.

humanitarian situations in the new history.

:42:07.:42:08.

Are you comfortable with continuing to talk to us

:42:09.:42:10.

There is nowhere else that is safe in the whole east.

:42:11.:42:19.

People are being burnt to death and suffocated to death

:42:20.:42:28.

Don't believe any more in the United Nation.

:42:29.:42:35.

Don't believe any more in the international community.

:42:36.:42:39.

Don't think that they are not satisfied with what's going on.

:42:40.:42:46.

That we are facing one of the most difficult...

:42:47.:42:59.

Or the most serious or the most horrible

:43:00.:43:01.

There is an urgent need for humanitarian teams to be deployed

:43:02.:43:41.

and given unfettered access to Aleppo, once government forces

:43:42.:43:43.

We are beginning to learn the price of not intervening.

:43:44.:43:55.

There are other solutions, such as using unmanned drones

:43:56.:43:58.

If we do nothing, if we just stand by and watch, then

:43:59.:44:04.

thousands more people in Syria will die in agony and millions

:44:05.:44:07.

in Britain will live with the shame of our inaction.

:44:08.:44:09.

They would make every effort to shoot down a British plane.

:44:10.:44:12.

The tragedy in Aleppo did not come out of a vacuum.

:44:13.:44:24.

It was created by a vacuum, a vacuum of Western

:44:25.:44:27.

leadership, of American leadership, British leadership.

:44:28.:44:29.

Our Middle East Editor, Jeremy Bowen, is here.

:44:30.:46:09.

If all those people who are trapped in the east of Aleppo get out, what

:46:10.:46:17.

happens next? The plan is they will be put onto buses and be driven, the

:46:18.:46:22.

people who are there now, be driven out and driven to the area around it

:46:23.:46:31.

slip, which is not too far away, held by rebels. -- Idlib. There are

:46:32.:46:39.

precedents for this happening. Elsewhere in Syria they have done

:46:40.:46:43.

that sort of thing. While some people have disappeared along the

:46:44.:46:48.

way, they have not experienced widespread massacres or anything

:46:49.:46:52.

like that. Is this the beginning of the endgame or not? It is not the

:46:53.:46:58.

end of the war. It is a very important milestone in the war. Last

:46:59.:47:01.

year, the rebels were doing much better. There was talk they might

:47:02.:47:06.

try to encircle the regime 's side of the city. If they succeeded, they

:47:07.:47:11.

would have said it was a colossal victory. The boot is on the other

:47:12.:47:15.

foot. It is a colossal victory for the regime and for their backers.

:47:16.:47:23.

The Iranians, and anti-Western coalition as well. That means it is

:47:24.:47:28.

also a defeat for those in Saudi Arabia, the United States, other

:47:29.:47:32.

countries, who have been supporting some of the militias in eastern

:47:33.:47:37.

Aleppo. President Assad is found to you decide he doesn't want to be

:47:38.:47:42.

there. He has been written off. He has been written off so much. There

:47:43.:47:46.

were reports earlier he took refuge on a warship in the Mediterranean,

:47:47.:47:53.

it was so bad now he is doing remarkably well. The view from his

:47:54.:47:59.

palace is incredible. There are reports, not confirmed, he might

:48:00.:48:03.

even go to Aleppo to do a victory speech. It is not the end of the war

:48:04.:48:07.

but may well be the end of talk about regime change was that he will

:48:08.:48:13.

knock him off his perch? Ron asked on e-mail, can someone please

:48:14.:48:20.

explain my ordinary people in East Aleppo are killed by government

:48:21.:48:24.

forces? A number of reasons. It is a war. People get killed. There has

:48:25.:48:31.

also been a very widespread use of very powerful weapons. The Russians

:48:32.:48:36.

and the Syrians deny they target civilians. But the Russians have got

:48:37.:48:41.

weapons which can be much more accurate. The Syrians do not. They

:48:42.:48:46.

use things like barrel bombs. Assad denied that. They are indiscriminate

:48:47.:48:51.

weapons. I know when you put one of those at the back of a helicopter

:48:52.:48:55.

will kill people in the region where it explodes and it doesn't matter

:48:56.:48:58.

whether it is a four-year-old child or 23 fighter. Christopher asked,

:48:59.:49:07.

how much of the blame lies with the rebels? They could have surrendered.

:49:08.:49:21.

We use the term rebel quite loosely. There are different factions. Let's

:49:22.:49:25.

not go into the rest of Syria. Different factions within eastern

:49:26.:49:30.

Aleppo. Some have been trained and armed by Americans. Some of which

:49:31.:49:36.

are Saudis and some of which are jihadists associated with Al-Qaeda.

:49:37.:49:40.

In the last few months, there has been a lot of infighting among them.

:49:41.:49:45.

The more pro-Western ones work in the ascendancy. In recent weeks and

:49:46.:49:50.

months, the jihadists have come out on top. They have been wasting a lot

:49:51.:49:54.

of their energy on fighting each other, rather than them fighting the

:49:55.:49:59.

regime 's side. Could they have stopped? Yes, they could but they

:50:00.:50:04.

say it is a walk and we are fighting for everybody's lives. All of those

:50:05.:50:10.

factions President Assad describes as terrorists. He is very consistent

:50:11.:50:15.

with theirs. He does not say these are good rebels and these are bad

:50:16.:50:20.

rebels he says these are terrorists. The Russians were critically for

:50:21.:50:27.

him, the Russians echo that. So do a lot of Syrians. If you go on the

:50:28.:50:32.

side of the regime or among people who are near the edge, say Western

:50:33.:50:39.

Aleppo, government-held and when the city was split, they did not suffer

:50:40.:50:46.

like on the levels of East. Still they received quite considerable

:50:47.:50:51.

numbers of people being killed or injured. War is a very dirty

:50:52.:50:56.

business. War is always dirty. There are no clean wards. This is

:50:57.:51:02.

particularly MAPI. Justin says we keep hearing reports of genocide. --

:51:03.:51:17.

mucky. How do we know which reports are accurate and which are

:51:18.:51:22.

propaganda? Often I am not satisfied until I see things with my own eyes.

:51:23.:51:26.

I would be in Syria if I had these are but I do not and so I am here.

:51:27.:51:43.

-- a visa. There was a terrible massacre in Srebenica. How did we

:51:44.:51:50.

find about that? Because we found bones, etc. Now we have social

:51:51.:51:56.

media, it is different. My particular take on it is the fact

:51:57.:52:00.

that the Russians are involved in this and they want to show they can

:52:01.:52:04.

manage it. The International Red Cross are there with these convoys.

:52:05.:52:09.

The Syrian Arab red Crescent is also there. These are all witnesses. I

:52:10.:52:15.

would think if they are planning a massacre, what you don't want around

:52:16.:52:22.

our witnesses. Right. On social media from people in eastern Aleppo,

:52:23.:52:27.

they have said bodies are piling up on the streets. There are summary

:52:28.:52:31.

executions. We have not seen images of that on social media. We would

:52:32.:52:36.

not be able to independently verify that. There have been words. If

:52:37.:52:41.

people are doing a massacre, they do not like being photographed and we

:52:42.:52:45.

would not expect to see things like that. You might see dead bodies.

:52:46.:52:49.

There has been a lot of shelling. When you are in a place that has

:52:50.:52:57.

been shelved when you do not want to stick your head onto the streets and

:52:58.:52:59.

start taking pictures. It is frightening. You can see in the

:53:00.:53:02.

pictures in the background, there are loads of people who are leaving

:53:03.:53:05.

who are not fighters. This is over the last few days. Stories would

:53:06.:53:10.

emerge. Also journalists who are there. As soon as I get a Visa, we

:53:11.:53:17.

will also be over it, if we can access. That is a big question in

:53:18.:53:22.

Syria. Trying to find out what really happened. Personally, if you

:53:23.:53:26.

don't know for certain, take everything you hear on social media

:53:27.:53:30.

with a pinch of salt. You have to. People push their own view.

:53:31.:53:37.

Sometimes... The reason why there are journalists around is we try to

:53:38.:53:43.

work our way through all of this. It is difficult and it is complex.

:53:44.:53:50.

Access is everything. Information tends to emerge if things happen.

:53:51.:53:55.

You do not have a visa because President Assad does not want you to

:53:56.:54:00.

have one. It takes a while. My colleague was there. Then another

:54:01.:54:04.

application and unless they want to fast track it, and they never have,

:54:05.:54:08.

it always takes a couple of weeks. Thank you very much.

:54:09.:54:12.

What would you do if your bank started to provide

:54:13.:54:15.

Of course you would not. You would not be so stupid.

:54:16.:54:23.

That's what Luke Brett Moore from New South Wales in Australia did.

:54:24.:54:30.

After a car accident and a break up with his girlfriend,

:54:31.:54:33.

he discovered his bank weren't capping his overdraft.

:54:34.:54:35.

The spending started out small - but he ended up with over

:54:36.:54:40.

Pleasure to be here. You spent six months on remand before being tried

:54:41.:54:56.

for, what was it, theft or fraud. It was obtaining financial advantage by

:54:57.:55:01.

deception. Why did you spend it? Young and foolish, I guess. Not that

:55:02.:55:08.

young. You work in your 20s. Our brains are not fully developed until

:55:09.:55:12.

we are 25. It's sort of just happened. It was an error of

:55:13.:55:18.

judgment. I'm not sure what I find more crazy, the fact that happened

:55:19.:55:21.

to me or the media circus that surrounded it since I have been

:55:22.:55:26.

acquitted. Presumably you are saying to the bank, this credit it is crazy

:55:27.:55:34.

and insane. What are you doing? I never told the bank that. I asked

:55:35.:55:39.

them if they would lend me the money and they did. It was as simple as

:55:40.:55:44.

that really. Sort of a strange experience to go through. That is

:55:45.:55:49.

just the way it happened. What did you spend the money on? All sorts of

:55:50.:55:55.

things. I'd bought cars and went on holidays. Celebrity memorabilia and

:55:56.:56:01.

artworks. You name it, I sort of bought it pretty much. It went on

:56:02.:56:06.

for about to years. Then the police came to my house, raided me, and

:56:07.:56:11.

took everything back I ever owned. I ended up in prison for six months

:56:12.:56:17.

over it. Have you still got that stuff? No, no. Every single thing I

:56:18.:56:22.

ever owned was confiscated by the police. Right. And so you were

:56:23.:56:28.

tried. You were acquitted. How did you react to that? I was never

:56:29.:56:33.

surprised by the fact I was acquitted in the end. It was just a

:56:34.:56:37.

shame it took four years to go through from one call to the other

:56:38.:56:41.

and then the six-month jail time I did before I was eventually

:56:42.:56:46.

acquitted by the Supreme Court here in New South Wales. Why were you not

:56:47.:56:51.

surprised with the acquittal? You had spent the cash. It was not

:56:52.:56:58.

yours. Yes. It came down to a rather complicated area of law, and a law

:56:59.:57:04.

that had never been applied to anyone in Australia before. I was

:57:05.:57:07.

the first person they eventually charged with this offence. By the

:57:08.:57:11.

time it went to the Supreme Court, the judge made the decision that

:57:12.:57:15.

what I did was not a crime and there was no evidence that I had committed

:57:16.:57:24.

a crime. Wow! A lot of people were shocked by the verdict. I was not. I

:57:25.:57:33.

sort of knew the law and educated myself on it and things like that.

:57:34.:57:40.

It was unanimous decision. Three justices in the Supreme Court all

:57:41.:57:45.

ruled my conducted not amount to a criminal offence. There are enough

:57:46.:57:48.

but do you think you did something wrong? That is a matter of opinion.

:57:49.:57:52.

Some people say what I did was really horrible and I should be

:57:53.:57:57.

burned at the stake but other people pat me on the back and give me the

:57:58.:58:02.

thumbs up. Messages from all over the world saying all sorts of

:58:03.:58:05.

different things will stop I am certainly not proud of what I did.

:58:06.:58:09.

I'm not telling my story because I am proud of it. I am just telling it

:58:10.:58:13.

because it is a story that is interesting and needs to be told.

:58:14.:58:18.

Thank you for talking to us. Choose your time. Thank you.

:58:19.:58:22.

I'm starting this new job, I'm taking over a really tough school.

:58:23.:58:34.

Where is it? You're not going down south...?

:58:35.:58:37.

Huddersfield? I know. That's like the dark side of the moon.

:58:38.:58:44.

You do know that this house is haunted?

:58:45.:58:46.

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