11/01/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


11/01/2017

Victoria Derbyshire speaks to the father of Claudia Lawrence, who went missing in 2009, about why he wants a change in the law.


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Hello. It's Wednesday.

:00:07.:00:08.

It's 9am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:00:09.:00:09.

Which top British pop artist tickets are being sent directly

:00:10.:00:18.

onto resale ticketing websites at higher prices?

:00:19.:00:20.

We will exclusively reveal who it is at 9.15am.

:00:21.:00:25.

We're guided by our morality and if there is no problem doing that, why

:00:26.:00:29.

don't we know who the artists are? Also today, as President Obama

:00:30.:00:34.

makes his farewell speech to the American people yet more

:00:35.:00:37.

revelations about his successor Obama said he was leaving behind

:00:38.:00:39.

a better and stronger country but he warned there was more work

:00:40.:00:43.

to be done in tackling racism. After my election there was talk of

:00:44.:00:55.

a post-raceal America and such a vision, however well intended, was

:00:56.:00:57.

never realistic. And in an exclusive interview

:00:58.:01:00.

the mum of a little boy who died because medical staff missed key

:01:01.:01:03.

warning signs of his condition, urges other parents to listen

:01:04.:01:05.

to their instincts when they feel something is really

:01:06.:01:08.

wrong with their child. Hello and welcome to the programme,

:01:09.:01:21.

we're live until 11am. There's so much for you to get

:01:22.:01:25.

in touch with today. We are talking about sex education

:01:26.:01:31.

for children this morning, children's charity Barnardos wants

:01:32.:01:35.

to see lessons being made age Would they feel safer with

:01:36.:01:52.

compulsory sex education lessons? That's one of the suggestions from

:01:53.:01:58.

the survey by Barnardo's. Would you welcome extra help in the classroom

:01:59.:02:03.

particularly in the age of social media apps.

:02:04.:02:08.

And secondary ticketing websites, it is a huge issue for you. Our

:02:09.:02:12.

exclusive story this morning. We really want to hear what you think.

:02:13.:02:14.

Our film is coming to you at 9.15am. Do get in touch on all the stories

:02:15.:02:19.

we're talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria Live

:02:20.:02:24.

and If you text, you will be charged Our top story today,

:02:25.:02:27.

Donald Trump has dismissed as "fake news" unconfirmed reports

:02:28.:02:31.

in the American media, that Russian intelligence has

:02:32.:02:32.

gathered compromising He's scheduled to hold a rare news

:02:33.:02:34.

conference later today. From Washington, Barbara

:02:35.:02:37.

Plett Usher reports. Mr Trump posted an angry message

:02:38.:02:38.

on his Twitter account Without referring to the media

:02:39.:02:41.

reports, he tweeted, "Fake news, The unverified claims

:02:42.:02:44.

were broadcast by US networks They say Russian spy agencies have

:02:45.:02:50.

embarrassing information about the President-elect

:02:51.:02:55.

that is personally compromising and that the US intelligence

:02:56.:02:57.

services have now informed him privately about the allegations,

:02:58.:02:59.

although they've said Mr Trump had already scandalised

:03:00.:03:01.

Washington by disparaging intelligence assessments

:03:02.:03:08.

that the Kremlin ordered Russian hackers to try to tilt

:03:09.:03:10.

the presidential election He is due to hold a rare

:03:11.:03:12.

news conference today, called to address concerns

:03:13.:03:17.

about his business interests, but this topic will almost

:03:18.:03:19.

certainly dominate. Joanna is in the BBC

:03:20.:03:22.

Newsroom with a summary Barack Obama has delivered his

:03:23.:03:25.

farewell address as US President, telling the American people

:03:26.:03:35.

he believes the country is in a better, stronger place

:03:36.:03:37.

than when he was first elected In an emotional speech in Chicago,

:03:38.:03:40.

he thanked his wife Michelle, his family and staff,

:03:41.:03:44.

as our correspondent Barack Obama returned to Chicago,

:03:45.:03:46.

the place where his political career began to deliver his long

:03:47.:03:52.

planned farewell address. The president used his platform

:03:53.:03:57.

to underline what he sees If I had told you that we would win

:03:58.:03:59.

marriage equality and secure the right to health insurance

:04:00.:04:08.

for another 20 million If I told you all that,

:04:09.:04:10.

you might have said our sights Turning to his theme

:04:11.:04:19.

of what could undermine America's democracy,

:04:20.:04:31.

the nation's first black president was frank

:04:32.:04:32.

about the state of race relations. After my election, there was talk

:04:33.:04:34.

of a post-racial America. Such a vision, however well

:04:35.:04:37.

intended, was never realistic. Race remains a potent and often

:04:38.:04:43.

divisive force in our society. Paying tribute to his wife

:04:44.:04:54.

Michelle and his daughters, For those who had lined up for hours

:04:55.:04:57.

to hear him speak in person, I thought it was very uplifting

:04:58.:05:05.

and it gave us a message of hope and encouragement

:05:06.:05:09.

and it was what we needed We had a tough election and we just

:05:10.:05:11.

need to keep fighting Barack Obama's supporters

:05:12.:05:18.

were heartened by his uplifting message tonight and he leaves office

:05:19.:05:26.

with his personal But that didn't stop the American

:05:27.:05:29.

voters from choosing Donald Trump to replace him and now Barack Obama

:05:30.:05:32.

must watch as Republicans A 15-year-old girl has been

:05:33.:05:35.

charged with the murder Katie Rough died in hospital

:05:36.:05:46.

on Monday after being found with serious injuries near a playing

:05:47.:05:50.

field in the Woodthorpe area. The teenager is due to appear before

:05:51.:05:52.

magistrates' later this morning. Let's go live now to York

:05:53.:05:55.

and our correspondent Fiona Trott. What can you tell us, Fiona? That's

:05:56.:06:10.

right. As you mentioned there, this happened on Monday afternoon about

:06:11.:06:12.

an hour or so after the local schools finished. We understand that

:06:13.:06:21.

Katie Rough was found on or near a playing field. Police say a woman,

:06:22.:06:24.

they believe to be Katie's mother, was in the street, crying, calling

:06:25.:06:28.

out for help, asking people to phone for an ambulance. An ambulance had

:06:29.:06:35.

arrived. Katie Rough was taken to hospital, but died a short time

:06:36.:06:39.

later. North Yorkshire Police say overnight a 15-year-old girl was

:06:40.:06:42.

charged with Katie Rough's murder and because of her young age we're

:06:43.:06:46.

not able to name her, of course, for legal reasons. She has been charged

:06:47.:06:50.

with possessing an offensive weapon and due to appear at York

:06:51.:06:53.

Magistrates' Court in an hour's time. In the meantime, detectives

:06:54.:06:57.

are appealing for anyone who may have seen two girls in the area on

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Monday afternoon to come forward with information.

:07:04.:07:05.

Thank you, Fiona. An investigation for this programme

:07:06.:07:10.

has found that the management team for a high-profile British singer

:07:11.:07:12.

has been placing tickets for their stadium tour directly

:07:13.:07:14.

onto a resale website. The artist's management team has

:07:15.:07:18.

previously called on the Government to take stronger action

:07:19.:07:20.

against resale sites. Secondary ticketing websites

:07:21.:07:22.

are routinely used by touts to sell We'll have more on this

:07:23.:07:24.

in a few minutes' time. Senior doctors are warning that

:07:25.:07:31.

a shortage of resources may leave the NHS in England unable to cope

:07:32.:07:34.

with this winter's demand. In a letter to Theresa May,

:07:35.:07:37.

the Royal College of Physicians said the quality of patient care

:07:38.:07:40.

is under threat. Charities working with elderly

:07:41.:07:43.

and disabled people have also written to the Prime Minister

:07:44.:07:47.

calling for a long-term solution to funding

:07:48.:07:49.

for health and social care. Here's our Health

:07:50.:07:51.

Correspondent Robert Pigott. The Royal College of Physicians said

:07:52.:07:55.

ambulances queuing outside hospitals were visual testament to the crisis

:07:56.:07:58.

in the NHS. The Royal College, which represents

:07:59.:08:03.

33,000 specialist hospital doctors, said patients faced lengthening

:08:04.:08:07.

waits on lists, on trolleys, in accident and emergency

:08:08.:08:11.

departments and at home. It blamed a shortage of qualified

:08:12.:08:15.

staff, stretched too thin lead Our members fear that people's lives

:08:16.:08:26.

are at risk because they can't get round to see the patients that

:08:27.:08:30.

aren't yet in the emergency department or indeed are waiting

:08:31.:08:33.

for results to come back. Members and fellows have been

:08:34.:08:35.

writing in and our council members specifically have said to me this

:08:36.:08:38.

is the worst they have ever seen. Most urgent, said the doctors,

:08:39.:08:41.

is investment in social care to prevent medically fit patients

:08:42.:08:43.

being trapped in hospitals. In their own letter

:08:44.:08:45.

to the Prime Minister, 75 charities and individuals working

:08:46.:08:50.

in health and social care said there must be a long-term

:08:51.:08:53.

cross-party solution to what they called

:08:54.:08:54.

the crisis in funding. Led by the charity Independent Age,

:08:55.:09:00.

they said: The Department of Health

:09:01.:09:13.

said it had invested ?10 billion to develop health services

:09:14.:09:15.

and relieve pressure on hospitals. And, since last year,

:09:16.:09:17.

had recruited 3,000 extra nurses You can put your questions about the

:09:18.:09:40.

state of the NHS to our health editor, Hugh Pym. Please get in

:09:41.:09:42.

touch if you have got questions you want to put to him. Text us or send

:09:43.:09:45.

an e-mail or contact us via Twitter. A 29-year-old British

:09:46.:09:51.

woman has been killed and two others are seriously

:09:52.:09:53.

injured, after a light aircraft The plane came down on a remote

:09:54.:09:55.

beach in Central Queensland. The pilot was taken to hospital

:09:56.:10:00.

in a serious condition and a 13-year-old boy has been

:10:01.:10:02.

treated for minor injuries. A jury in the US city of Charleston

:10:03.:10:06.

has sentenced to death a white supremacist who killed

:10:07.:10:10.

nine black churchgoers. 22-year-old Dylann Roof opened fire

:10:11.:10:12.

during a bible study group. He showed no remorse,

:10:13.:10:15.

telling the court he believed he had Melvin Graham, whose sister

:10:16.:10:18.

was killed in the shooting, This is a very hollow victory

:10:19.:10:41.

because my sister is still gone. I wished that this verdict could have

:10:42.:10:45.

brought her back, but it can't, but what it can do is just send a

:10:46.:10:53.

message to those who feel the way he feels that this community will not

:10:54.:10:54.

tolerate it. There is traffic disruption after a

:10:55.:11:05.

lorry overturned on the Forth Road Bridge.

:11:06.:11:09.

It happened in gale force winds. Let's go to our correspondent who is

:11:10.:11:14.

by the Forth Bridge. Dramatic effect of the weather. Tell us more. Can

:11:15.:11:24.

you hear me? PROBLEM WITH SOUND

:11:25.:11:27.

No, I think we've lost her. We will keep you updated and we will have a

:11:28.:11:30.

weather update before 10am. And now take a look at this amazing

:11:31.:11:35.

insight into the daily Scientists fitted a camera

:11:36.:11:37.

to the neck of a female polar bear from the Southern Beaufort Sea,

:11:38.:11:41.

just north of Alaska. The footage gives a bear's-eye

:11:42.:11:43.

view of her feeding, The US Geological Survey hopes it'll

:11:44.:11:46.

help researchers better understand how the animals are coping

:11:47.:11:49.

with declining sea ice levels. That's a summary of

:11:50.:11:55.

the latest BBC News. Thank you very much. Many messages

:11:56.:12:05.

from you about the secondary ticketing websites. Paul says, "The

:12:06.:12:08.

easy answer is don't buy the tickets from the sites then the sellers and

:12:09.:12:13.

artists wouldn't profit." Richard, "Many bands do this because they

:12:14.:12:16.

don't make the money from album sales. Touring equals money."

:12:17.:12:21.

Stephen says, "Pure exploitation in my view. They are in the same

:12:22.:12:25.

category as back street loan sharks." Our exclusive film is

:12:26.:12:30.

coming up. Do get in touch with us

:12:31.:12:32.

throughout the morning. Use the hashtag Victoria Live

:12:33.:12:37.

and If you text, you will be charged Let's get some sport

:12:38.:12:40.

with Hugh Ferris. Manchester United won the first leg

:12:41.:12:43.

of their EFL Cup semi-final but the manager has had some words

:12:44.:12:46.

about what he wants from the fans. Jose Mourinho's side

:12:47.:12:57.

were 2-0 winners last night. Second-half goals from Juan Mata

:12:58.:13:00.

and Marouane Fellaini were the difference

:13:01.:13:01.

between the sides. There were some interesting comments

:13:02.:13:03.

from Mourinho after the match. He said he wants more

:13:04.:13:05.

from Manchester United fans. They play arch rivals Liverpool

:13:06.:13:07.

at Old Trafford on Sunday and Mourinho said he wants that

:13:08.:13:14.

to not be a "visit to the theatre", but instead has invited fans

:13:15.:13:20.

to "come and play with us". Now his counterpart Jurgen Klopp

:13:21.:13:28.

is known for this type of rallying call to Liverpool fans -

:13:29.:13:36.

clearly Mourinho wants a bit We've had some news

:13:37.:13:39.

today from the family These comments from his family come

:13:40.:13:41.

after he was injured again They've told the BBC that Blackwell

:13:42.:14:02.

is unable to walk and is a year away The British Boxing Board of Control

:14:03.:14:07.

will hold a hearing today into the unsanctioned sparring

:14:08.:14:11.

session, where they'll hear evidence from the boxer who took part

:14:12.:14:13.

in the session and the trainer But confirmation from

:14:14.:14:16.

Nick Blackwell's family that this We had Jodie Cunddy on the programme

:14:17.:14:20.

yesterday. There's been some criticism from one

:14:21.:14:44.

of our top Paralympians. The event is due to take

:14:45.:14:54.

place in Los Angeles The 14 time Paralympic gold

:14:55.:14:56.

medallist said the governing body the UCI had been warned that such

:14:57.:15:00.

a short notice period would mean some athletes would struggle

:15:01.:15:03.

with finances and visas. The UCI themselves have said that

:15:04.:15:05.

hosting these championships in a post-Paralympic season shows

:15:06.:15:07.

just how far the sport has come. Adele, Elton John,

:15:08.:15:18.

Coldplay and Iron Maiden. Just a few of the artists who have

:15:19.:15:32.

publically said they are anti those resale ticket websites,

:15:33.:15:35.

otherwise known as secondary It's a really profitable industry,

:15:36.:15:37.

worth billions worldwide, and it makes lots of money for touts

:15:38.:15:40.

who routinely use them to sell But in an exclusive investigation

:15:41.:15:43.

for this programme, we've found one British artist who's been putting

:15:44.:15:47.

tickets directly onto secondary ticketing websites at higher prices,

:15:48.:15:50.

for a stadium tour that Our reporter Chi Chi Izundu

:15:51.:15:53.

reveals the identity We suck in this industry

:15:54.:15:57.

at being transparent and we suck at putting back in the business

:15:58.:16:06.

that we take from. Artists are hiding the fact

:16:07.:16:09.

of these tickets and then putting them on secondary,

:16:10.:16:14.

also they just so they don't have to say that they're selling them

:16:15.:16:17.

for more than they're actually The whole thing is

:16:18.:16:19.

starting to go awry. It needs to be stopped,

:16:20.:16:24.

it needs to be stopped now. Greedy people is a

:16:25.:16:30.

fantastic expression. Arts, music and culture

:16:31.:16:46.

contribute billions to the UK And that includes getting one

:16:47.:16:48.

of these to see one of these. And getting tickets at a reasonable

:16:49.:16:53.

price these days isn't always easy. They've been around for a while -

:16:54.:16:58.

resale sites or secondary ticket websites where fans can

:16:59.:17:02.

resell a ticket. At the Q awards back in November,

:17:03.:17:09.

James Bay told the StubHub-sponsored event that secondary

:17:10.:17:12.

ticketing sites suck. Jack Garratt said at the same event

:17:13.:17:14.

that he was only interested in finding the best and cheapest way

:17:15.:17:18.

for fans to see his shows. And we actually can't

:17:19.:17:23.

repeat what Bastille said. Nowadays, a big artist can cut

:17:24.:17:28.

a deal where they get 100% of the ticket price and some

:17:29.:17:32.

of the fees added on for any gig But, if a tout resells those

:17:33.:17:35.

tickets at a higher price, then the artist doesn't get

:17:36.:17:42.

that added profit. Welcome to this special

:17:43.:17:44.

session of the... The lack of transparency

:17:45.:17:47.

about the secondary ticketing market was highlighted

:17:48.:17:50.

by a committee of MPs. Like who is selling these

:17:51.:17:54.

tickets on these sites, and exactly where and how

:17:55.:17:57.

are they getting such large volumes? At the recent Department

:17:58.:18:00.

for Culture, Media and Sport committee hearing, there

:18:01.:18:05.

was an admission from Ticketmaster that an artist is selling tickets

:18:06.:18:08.

directly on their secondary sites Can we read into that, therefore,

:18:09.:18:10.

that if we see a ticket at a considerably inflated price,

:18:11.:18:17.

that the artists have approved that? Have the artist actually allowed

:18:18.:18:26.

for, all given permission, for prices of their tickets

:18:27.:18:28.

at their revenge to be sold We do work with some

:18:29.:18:31.

artists where we offer So we asked Ticketmaster what they

:18:32.:18:34.

meant by dynamic pricing model. They effectively said that

:18:35.:18:42.

if the tickets are selling quickly, But if there isn't much

:18:43.:18:44.

interest in that gig, Which we find has a major impact

:18:45.:18:49.

in terms of the number of tickets that are then resold

:18:50.:18:53.

through the resale sites. So, normally, we would take

:18:54.:18:57.

something like 10% of the best seats And they can be purchased

:18:58.:19:00.

by the Ticketmaster main website. Another slightly

:19:01.:19:10.

confusing statement. So 10% of the best seats stay

:19:11.:19:12.

on the main Ticketmaster website. And we're actually working with one

:19:13.:19:15.

artist at the moment whereby we're actually openly,

:19:16.:19:18.

transparently listing those tickets within Get Me In and Seatwave,

:19:19.:19:22.

and saying these are official artist tickets, through there,

:19:23.:19:25.

because, in that way, you can actually affect the pricing

:19:26.:19:27.

within the resale marketplaces and capture the value

:19:28.:19:29.

from the resale sector, and that goes directly

:19:30.:19:32.

back to the industry. Ticketmaster confirmed

:19:33.:19:34.

to me that that artist Here's a ticket you can buy

:19:35.:19:43.

on Ticketmaster's website. I'm feeling flush, so let's

:19:44.:19:52.

get some good seats. These tickets are direct

:19:53.:19:55.

from the event organiser. Very similar seats, one block over

:19:56.:20:10.

from the stage at ?160 each. It's being sold for the first time

:20:11.:20:14.

on a secondary site. Ticketmaster say these platinum

:20:15.:20:20.

tickets are the best seats in the house, but confirm they come

:20:21.:20:23.

with no extra perks. But there is a ?65 difference

:20:24.:20:26.

between these two very similar seats, even though they both come

:20:27.:20:30.

directly from the event organisers. Now, Robbie and his management

:20:31.:20:34.

aren't doing anything illegal. They're not breaking

:20:35.:20:37.

any laws or any rules. But some people have said

:20:38.:20:42.

that this is just greedy. In 2015, a number of promoters

:20:43.:20:47.

and artists' managers signed an open letter to the government asking them

:20:48.:20:50.

to take a harsher stance Harvey Goldsmith, who has promoted

:20:51.:20:53.

acts like Michael Jackson And we've pointed out

:20:54.:20:57.

another signature. On this letter is IE Management,

:20:58.:21:03.

Robbie Williams' management. Warning the government

:21:04.:21:06.

to take stronger action However, would it surprise

:21:07.:21:12.

you to know that Robbie Williams is currently selling tickets

:21:13.:21:18.

directly on Get Me In and Seatwave as part of a deal with Ticketmaster,

:21:19.:21:20.

him and his management? Isn't it slightly hypocritical

:21:21.:21:24.

to sign a letter publicly saying, we want something to be done

:21:25.:21:31.

about secondary ticketing, and then go and put on tickets

:21:32.:21:33.

on a secondary platform But hopefully most of the people

:21:34.:21:36.

who have signed the petition are acting honourably and do

:21:37.:21:49.

everything that they can do to prevent tickets being sold

:21:50.:21:52.

on the secondary market. The temptation is real,

:21:53.:21:57.

according to Arctic Monkeys manager Ian McAndrew.

:21:58.:22:02.

He talks about his band's tickets, or inventory, as it's

:22:03.:22:06.

called in the industry. I have been often approached by one

:22:07.:22:07.

of the big four resale sites asking to enter into an arrangement

:22:08.:22:15.

where I give them inventory in return for participation

:22:16.:22:19.

in the resale profit. That is a proposal I've refused

:22:20.:22:21.

on a number of occasions. But I can understand how that

:22:22.:22:26.

would be a temptation to some, who want to maximise profits

:22:27.:22:30.

for a show. We also got it confirmed

:22:31.:22:33.

that the company who plays Capital's Summertime

:22:34.:22:39.

and Jingle Bells balls put tickets directly on secondary

:22:40.:22:43.

ticketing site StubHub, but said they did not

:22:44.:22:44.

increase the prices. I just think artists should answer

:22:45.:22:47.

those to the fans more. But I guess when the artists get

:22:48.:22:51.

bigger, they are more removed from their fans,

:22:52.:22:55.

so I think you can more easily We're often guided by morality

:22:56.:22:57.

and if there is no problem doing that, why don't we know

:22:58.:23:03.

who these artists are? Because they are keeping

:23:04.:23:06.

very quiet about it. Ticketmaster said they are being

:23:07.:23:08.

transparent, but it does seem you are paying more for a ticket

:23:09.:23:10.

for no real reason, when you can get And despite numerous

:23:11.:23:14.

requests for a statement, Robbie's management team,

:23:15.:23:21.

IE Music, haven't responded. The secondary ticketing industry

:23:22.:23:29.

is a very lucrative one. So you can understand why people

:23:30.:23:31.

in live entertainment aren't happy when their cut of the pie gets

:23:32.:23:39.

smaller, ie, they don't Touts have been known to target high

:23:40.:23:42.

demand events that are likely to sell out quickly and one way

:23:43.:23:49.

they do that is through sophisticated computer

:23:50.:23:52.

software known as bots. Most tickets go on general sale

:23:53.:23:56.

on a Friday, a peak time for touts. Whilst you're busy sticking

:23:57.:24:03.

in your details, touts have already nabbed all the available tickets

:24:04.:24:07.

with their powerful software Get Me In, Seatwave and StubHub have

:24:08.:24:09.

all said they are very anti the use And this programme has discovered

:24:10.:24:18.

that all those websites own Now it helps touts sell, not buy,

:24:19.:24:24.

huge amounts of tickets. And to get access, touts have

:24:25.:24:32.

to show they've shifted nearly With Ticket Utils, you don't have

:24:33.:24:34.

to sell loads to access it. StubHub's Pro site is designed

:24:35.:24:39.

specifically for the volume seller and, on both,

:24:40.:24:43.

they allow you to sell Get Me In, Seatwave and StubHub have

:24:44.:24:45.

all said they do not check exactly So, if you are anti-bots,

:24:46.:24:50.

why provide specialist software assistance for touts to sell large

:24:51.:24:57.

volumes through your platforms? It is important to make

:24:58.:25:05.

sure that ticket brokers are managing their inventory

:25:06.:25:12.

in a good way. So they are not providing software

:25:13.:25:14.

for ticket brokers to go buy tickets, they're providing software

:25:15.:25:17.

ultimately that's going to give, from their perspective,

:25:18.:25:19.

their fans a better experience Ticketmaster say this software

:25:20.:25:21.

is not available in the UK, while StubHub did not respond

:25:22.:25:30.

to our requests for a statement. The next part of our

:25:31.:25:35.

story comes from Italy. An Italian TV programme

:25:36.:25:37.

was given lots of invoices from Live Nation Italy showing

:25:38.:25:41.

it was secretly selling tens of thousands of tickets at high

:25:42.:25:51.

prices directly on Viagogo In a statement to Billboard

:25:52.:25:53.

magazine, Live Nation Italy said the allegations in the Italian

:25:54.:26:03.

programme relates to a small number of tickets for a handful

:26:04.:26:05.

of international artists. We asked Viagogo for a statement,

:26:06.:26:07.

but got no response. Meet Claudio Trotta, he's a promoter

:26:08.:26:10.

in Italy of lots of artists, It's not so easy

:26:11.:26:13.

to stop all of this. The way it should stop,

:26:14.:26:18.

by my opinion, is you clearly state by law that this type

:26:19.:26:26.

of sale is illegal. Claudio is also the reason

:26:27.:26:34.

these recent headlines rocked the music world,

:26:35.:26:37.

because he took legal action against the unauthorised sale

:26:38.:26:39.

of Bruce Springsteen tickets And, in Italy, they are moving

:26:40.:26:41.

to ban the secondary Here's the ticket you can buy

:26:42.:26:47.

on Ticketmaster's website. We showed what we found two

:26:48.:26:51.

Conservative MP Andrew Bingham, who is part of the committee looking

:26:52.:26:54.

at whether the government should If we had done this interview

:26:55.:26:56.

a couple of years ago, I would have taken a different view,

:26:57.:27:03.

because I was very supportive But I think somebody, or somehow,

:27:04.:27:06.

people have worked a way round of abusing the system and,

:27:07.:27:11.

from the film you've just shown me, it appears that the artists are now

:27:12.:27:14.

also complicit in it as well. So is it any wonder,

:27:15.:27:18.

with all this going on, why you as a fan find it really hard

:27:19.:27:20.

to get your hands on a And to watch that film again -

:27:21.:27:24.

and share it, you can head to our programme page

:27:25.:27:33.

bbc.co.uk/victoria. As you'd expect we asked,

:27:34.:27:36.

Robbie Williams' management team for an comment or interview -

:27:37.:27:38.

so far no response. But Robbie if you're

:27:39.:27:48.

watching Robbie tweet me We also asked Stubhub

:27:49.:27:50.

and Viagogo for a comment - And Ticketmaster tell us 'Platinum

:27:51.:27:54.

tickets are a very small percentage of the best seats in the house that

:27:55.:27:58.

are priced according to demand, in consultation with our clients,

:27:59.:28:01.

the event organisers'. And after ten - we'll be talking

:28:02.:28:03.

to a band member who bought tickets to his own gig back from a secondary

:28:04.:28:06.

ticketing website and re-sold Let's raise these usages, Adam Kirk

:28:07.:28:15.

on Twitter says ripping off your own fans must be the lowest of the low.

:28:16.:28:20.

Rebecca on Facebook, shocking they are pleasing those loyal to them.

:28:21.:28:23.

Too many artists and bands are guilty of this, shame on them.

:28:24.:28:30.

Beyonce tickets were on sale for up to ?900 on a sister site to

:28:31.:28:34.

Ticketmaster, so frustrating. Diane says this happened to me, tickets on

:28:35.:28:39.

sale at 9am, selling out immediately. Redirected to another

:28:40.:28:46.

site, three tickets original price, ?40, with extras, 370 quid. It was a

:28:47.:28:53.

massive mark-up. Keep those coming in. Your reaction to our revelations

:28:54.:28:57.

this morning. Still to come... President Obama has given

:28:58.:29:04.

his farewell speech, while his successor Donald Trump

:29:05.:29:06.

is facing claims that the Russians We will talk about the latest

:29:07.:29:12.

developments with a member of Trump's transition team. Also a

:29:13.:29:17.

Democrat and a leading social media guru. We will talk to a mum who lost

:29:18.:29:24.

her baby to meningitis. She is calling on parents to speak up about

:29:25.:29:27.

their instincts, when it comes to their child's health.

:29:28.:29:35.

Time for the latest headlines. A spokesman for Vladimir Putin has

:29:36.:29:43.

denied allegations that the Kremlin has collected compromising

:29:44.:29:45.

information about the President-elect Donald Trump.

:29:46.:29:48.

Unconfirmed reports have emerged in the Russian media that -- in the

:29:49.:29:57.

American media that Russian intelligence agencies have gathered

:29:58.:30:01.

information on the President-elect. Trump claims that fake news has been

:30:02.:30:03.

published. Barack Obama has delivered his

:30:04.:30:07.

farewell address as US President. In an emotional speech in Chicago,

:30:08.:30:09.

he said he believed the country was in a better, stronger place

:30:10.:30:12.

than when he was first The president admitted progress had

:30:13.:30:15.

not gone far enough, but he called on the American people

:30:16.:30:18.

to put aside their differences and I am asking you to hold fast

:30:19.:30:21.

to that faith written into our founding documents,

:30:22.:30:25.

that idea of whisper by slaves and abolitionists,

:30:26.:30:28.

that spirit sung by immigrants and homesteaders and those

:30:29.:30:31.

who marched for justice. That creed, reaffirmed by those

:30:32.:30:37.

what planted flags from foreign battlefields to the surface

:30:38.:30:39.

of the moon. A creed at the core of every

:30:40.:30:41.

American whose story A 15-year-old girl has been

:30:42.:30:44.

charged with the murder Katie Rough died in hospital

:30:45.:31:00.

on Monday after being found with serious injuries near a playing

:31:01.:31:04.

field in the Woodthorpe area. The teenager is due to appear before

:31:05.:31:10.

magistrates' later this morning. Senior doctors are warning

:31:11.:31:12.

that the crisis in the NHS and social care is putting people's

:31:13.:31:15.

lives at risk. In a letter to Theresa May,

:31:16.:31:17.

the Royal College of Physicians said a shortage of resources means

:31:18.:31:20.

the quality of patient Charities working with elderly

:31:21.:31:22.

and disabled people have also written to the Prime Minister,

:31:23.:31:28.

calling for a long-term solution to funding

:31:29.:31:31.

for health and social care. The Department of Health says it's

:31:32.:31:33.

investing ?10 billion to relieve 20 people have been

:31:34.:31:35.

rescued from the top They were trapped and helped

:31:36.:31:41.

down from the ride at Local media said there were no

:31:42.:31:45.

reports of injuries. It's thought a mechanical

:31:46.:31:49.

problem with a chain That's a summary of

:31:50.:31:51.

the latest BBC News. Manchester United have a 2-0

:31:52.:31:56.

advantage after the first leg of their EFL Cup

:31:57.:32:06.

semi-final against Hull. Goals from Juan Mata

:32:07.:32:09.

and Marouane Fellaini at Old Trafford gave

:32:10.:32:12.

United their ninth win in a row. Boxer Nick Blackwell is a year away

:32:13.:32:16.

from making a full recovery. Blackwell suffered serious

:32:17.:32:19.

head injuries in a fight with Chris Eubank Junior in March

:32:20.:32:25.

last year, but was then injured again in an unsanctioned sparring

:32:26.:32:28.

session in November. Dame Sarah Storey says athletes need

:32:29.:32:35.

to be given more notice, after the Para-track cycling world

:32:36.:32:38.

championships were organised The event is due to take

:32:39.:32:40.

place in Los Angeles British number one Johanna Konta

:32:41.:32:45.

is through to the semi-finals She beat Daria Kasatkina

:32:46.:32:53.

in straight sets. Konta will face former Wimbledon

:32:54.:32:59.

finalist Eugenie Buchard More on those stories after 10am.

:33:00.:33:01.

Good morning. President Barack Obama said goodbye

:33:02.:33:09.

to the American people last night in a dramatic reinterpretation

:33:10.:33:12.

of a presidential farewell address. He discarded the Oval Office

:33:13.:33:16.

or East Room for his last formal set of remarks choosing to travel

:33:17.:33:19.

to Chicago, the city where he declared victory in 2008

:33:20.:33:21.

and 2012, to address a sold-out During the address in Chicago,

:33:22.:33:24.

where he started his political career, Mr Obama began by saying

:33:25.:33:29.

it was the people who had made him My fellow Americans...

:33:30.:33:48.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Michelle and I have been so touched

:33:49.:33:54.

by all the well wishes that we've received over the past few weeks,

:33:55.:34:01.

but tonight, tonight it's my turn to say thanks. Whether we have seen eye

:34:02.:34:12.

to eye or really agreed at all, my conversations with you, the American

:34:13.:34:19.

people, in living rooms and in schools, at farms, on factory

:34:20.:34:27.

floors, at diners and on distant military outposts. These

:34:28.:34:31.

conversations are what have kept me honest and kept me inspired and kept

:34:32.:34:39.

me going. And every day I've learned from you. You made me a better

:34:40.:34:43.

president. And you made me a better man.

:34:44.:34:46.

As the President recalled his early political career in Chicago,

:34:47.:34:49.

he brushed aside chats of "four more years" from the crowd.

:34:50.:34:51.

And in his only reference to his successor, he promised

:34:52.:34:54.

a peaceful transition to the new administration

:34:55.:34:56.

So I first came to Chicago when I was in my early 20s and I was still

:34:57.:35:07.

trying to figure out who I was, still searching for a purpose in my

:35:08.:35:14.

life and it was the neighbourhood, not far from here where I began

:35:15.:35:18.

working with church groups in the shadows of closed steel mills. It

:35:19.:35:24.

was on these streets where I witnessed the power of faith and the

:35:25.:35:29.

quiet dignity of working people in the face of struggle and loss. Four

:35:30.:35:41.

more cheers... I can't do that. Four more years. Four more years.

:35:42.:35:49.

In ten days, the world will witness a hallmark of our democracy. Boo

:35:50.:35:59.

boo. No, no, the peaceful transfer of power from one freely elected

:36:00.:36:09.

president to the next. APPLAUSE

:36:10.:36:11.

I committed to president-elect trump that my administration would ensure

:36:12.:36:15.

the smoothest possible transition, just as President Bush, did for me.

:36:16.:36:23.

APPLAUSE Because it is up to all of us to

:36:24.:36:28.

make sure our Government can help us meet the many challenges we still

:36:29.:36:30.

face. With a call for people

:36:31.:36:32.

to continue to believe in bringing about change -

:36:33.:36:36.

and to hold on to the values My fellow Americans it has been the

:36:37.:36:49.

honour of my life to serve you. I won't stop. In fact I will be right

:36:50.:36:55.

there with you as a citizen... APPLAUSE

:36:56.:37:00.

For all my remaining days. But for now, whether you are young or

:37:01.:37:05.

whether you're young at heart, I do have one final ask of you as your

:37:06.:37:10.

president. The same thing I asked when you took a chance on me eight

:37:11.:37:17.

years ago. I'm asking you to believe, not in my ability to bring

:37:18.:37:22.

about change, but in yours. I'm asking you to hold fast to that

:37:23.:37:30.

faith written into our founding documents, that whisper by slaves

:37:31.:37:41.

into our founding documents, that idea of whisper

:37:42.:37:43.

by slaves and abolitionists, that spirit sung by immigrants

:37:44.:37:45.

and homesteaders and those who marched for justice.

:37:46.:37:47.

That creed, reaffirmed by those what planted flags from foreign

:37:48.:37:49.

battlefields to the surface of the moon.

:37:50.:37:51.

A creed at the core of every American whose story

:37:52.:37:53.

Thank you God bless you. May God continue to bless the United States

:37:54.:38:05.

of America. Thank you. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:38:06.:38:18.

Incoming President Donald Trump holds his first news conference

:38:19.:38:22.

later likely to be dominated by claims that the Russians have

:38:23.:38:28.

compromising material on him which he himself has

:38:29.:38:30.

So, how do Mr Trump and Mr Obama compare not just in policy

:38:31.:38:34.

but style, management and the use of social media?

:38:35.:38:36.

Let's talk now to a member of Donald Trump's transition team,

:38:37.:38:40.

Jan Halper-Hayes, the former chair of Democrats Abroad Margo Miller,

:38:41.:38:42.

Jan, you got Donald Trump to fill out a psychological assessment, why

:38:43.:38:57.

and what did it show? Well, as a psychologist I was bothered that the

:38:58.:39:02.

media were saying he didn't have the right temperament and temperament

:39:03.:39:06.

we're born with and personality is what is shaped with our emotional

:39:07.:39:09.

life, our values, our social environment. And so, I asked him to

:39:10.:39:17.

take the presidential temperament assessment tool that is

:39:18.:39:20.

administered, objectively by another company... Give me some questions

:39:21.:39:26.

that are on it? 41 presidents have been diagnosed by it. You know, it's

:39:27.:39:30.

more that there is a statement and then you have to choose between the

:39:31.:39:35.

words. OK. And based on that it gives you an indication. What kind

:39:36.:39:40.

of statement, can you recall? No, I can't remember. Please, Jan. I can

:39:41.:39:47.

tell you the results of it is that he fell into the same temperament as

:39:48.:39:58.

Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, JFK because they are action or rend

:39:59.:40:02.

tated and Kennedy said, "Do not ask what your country can do for you,

:40:03.:40:05.

but what you can do for your country." Reagan said Mr Gorbachev

:40:06.:40:13.

tear down the world and Trump said, "I'm going to build a wall. A big

:40:14.:40:18.

one with a nice door." How do you compare Barack Obama and Donald

:40:19.:40:21.

Trump as men first of all before we talk about policies? I look at

:40:22.:40:24.

President Obama and the role model that he has been for people in

:40:25.:40:29.

America and people around the world. The relationship between President

:40:30.:40:32.

Obama and his wife, Michelle, the way in which he raised his daughters

:40:33.:40:36.

in the White House, the fact that he is a black man as president of the

:40:37.:40:39.

United States and what that represented, that Michelle Obama is

:40:40.:40:44.

a strong women and who is always looking at the positive and the

:40:45.:40:48.

quote that will go down in history, when they go low, we go high and

:40:49.:40:51.

always looking for the best in people and really trying to empower

:40:52.:40:54.

people and you look at the campaign that started in 2007 and it was very

:40:55.:41:00.

much from the grass-roots up and the way in which the campaign used

:41:01.:41:04.

social media and about empowering as many different people and

:41:05.:41:06.

communicating with as many different segments of the population as

:41:07.:41:10.

possible. Let's have a word about policies before we talk about the

:41:11.:41:13.

social media side of things which is increasingly important. Jan, in

:41:14.:41:19.

terms of Donald Trump, and the forthcoming domestic policies, what

:41:20.:41:22.

would you pick out as being really good domestic policies for the

:41:23.:41:26.

States that he says that he's going to implement? Well, I'm hoping in

:41:27.:41:30.

the repealing of Obamacare, they keep the good aspects of it and then

:41:31.:41:35.

create a more affordable, competitive market. He said he will

:41:36.:41:38.

keep some elements of it having had a conversation with Barack Obama,

:41:39.:41:41.

Margo, what do you say about Obamacare? President Obama has said

:41:42.:41:45.

that if anything can come up with a better system and fix, that can get

:41:46.:41:49.

through Congress, he would support it. It was the best piece of

:41:50.:41:52.

legislation and the most comprehensive piece of legislation

:41:53.:41:56.

to fix a serious problem in America. There were 44 millions Americans who

:41:57.:41:59.

didn't have access to healthcare when Obama took office. It is not

:42:00.:42:03.

perfect. No major piece of legislation is perfect. There are

:42:04.:42:07.

fixes that can be put into place. Congress made that virtually

:42:08.:42:10.

impossible. Donald Trump has more likely Congress on his side. But not

:42:11.:42:14.

necessarily the American people. There are 20 million Americans who

:42:15.:42:19.

have health insurance now. There are all sorts of preexisting conditions

:42:20.:42:22.

that are covered. The insurance company has been silent because they

:42:23.:42:25.

want certainty. We have a system in place now and we don't know what

:42:26.:42:29.

it's going to be replaced with. I want to talk about the relationship

:42:30.:42:33.

with the UK as well. I mean, we're told that the British Prime Minister

:42:34.:42:36.

will be visiting Donald Trump possibly in the spring. How do you

:42:37.:42:41.

envisage this relationship between Donald Trump and Theresa May, the

:42:42.:42:46.

US, and the UK in the future? Donald Trump has shown that he's very

:42:47.:42:49.

forgiving of people that speak badly of him. Such as considering Romney

:42:50.:42:56.

for Secretary of State. People have asked me because Theresa May, you

:42:57.:43:00.

know, said perhaps some disparaging things, will that be an issue. No.

:43:01.:43:06.

When she was Home Secretary? The fact that Barack Obama sent the

:43:07.:43:10.

Winston Churchill bus back to the UK, Donald Trump has come out and

:43:11.:43:14.

asked for it to be returned. And the meeting that he had with Corker,

:43:15.:43:20.

sorry, Boris Johnson had with Senator Bob Corker that the UK will

:43:21.:43:26.

be at the front of the line for the by lateral trade agreements. How do

:43:27.:43:29.

you think the relationship will change, if you think it will between

:43:30.:43:34.

the US and the UK, Marco? It is an incredibly important relationship

:43:35.:43:37.

and I think both governments will do their best to ensure that it

:43:38.:43:40.

continues. Kerry, let's have a look at some of the tweets from both

:43:41.:43:46.

Barack Obama as president and incoming president Donald Trump.

:43:47.:43:49.

Let's look at this one from Trump. This was during the campaign, the

:43:50.:43:55.

presidential campaign. It is about Hillary Clinton:

:43:56.:44:08.

President Obama on Hillary Clinton: What do you think of those two?

:44:09.:44:17.

There is a difference between the way both Trump and Obama use social

:44:18.:44:22.

media. Obama very quickly became digitally savvy and hired a team. So

:44:23.:44:28.

his tweets are very polished, very professional, but we feel he is

:44:29.:44:33.

somewhat removed from them. Whereas trump's Twitter presence, he put out

:44:34.:44:38.

100% of his personality there and embraced the nature of Twitter. So

:44:39.:44:42.

there is a sense of authenticity, and whether or not we like the

:44:43.:44:46.

content of what he shares, we really feel like it's, the American people

:44:47.:44:49.

really feel they get to know him. Yes. Here is another one from Donald

:44:50.:44:53.

Trump. Again it is during the presidential campaign:

:44:54.:45:06.

This one from Obama when he was re-elected. It is a tweet showing a

:45:07.:45:12.

photograph of him hugging his wife. Four more years. I'm not comparing

:45:13.:45:17.

the tweets as like with like. I'm showing the difference in the way

:45:18.:45:21.

they tweet. President Obama's could have been done by his team, as you

:45:22.:45:23.

say. A very different relationship each

:45:24.:45:37.

has the press. Obama using social media as an extension of that. Trump

:45:38.:45:43.

bypassing the press to dictate the headlines himself. I must told you

:45:44.:45:47.

about the claims that the Russians have some sort salacious,

:45:48.:45:50.

compromising material on Donald Trump. Denying it on Twitter,

:45:51.:45:56.

describing it as fake news. How do you react? Buzzfeed said they have

:45:57.:46:06.

this information prior, it is unsubstantiated. The part that I do

:46:07.:46:12.

believe is where they said there was some connection, speaking to Russia,

:46:13.:46:21.

and Trump's presidential campaign. One member was fired because of his

:46:22.:46:24.

connections to the Russians and Ukrainians. That could be accurate.

:46:25.:46:30.

I find it very interesting that now it comes out that there is some

:46:31.:46:37.

disparaging and horrible things, but it had not been released before. Why

:46:38.:46:44.

not? If it is verified, and that is a big if, and it turns out to be

:46:45.:46:49.

true, we find that the nature of these revelations, a lot of

:46:50.:46:53.

speculation online, as you might imagine, will it make any difference

:46:54.:46:57.

to Donald Trump is an incoming president? It depends on what it is.

:46:58.:47:08.

We're told it is of sexual nature. The voters are over that. I am not

:47:09.:47:16.

over it. Because you are a Democrat. It is because of the respect of the

:47:17.:47:19.

office, and what we expect from the President of the United States was

:47:20.:47:29.

if these claims are verified, you are 60-year-old man from you again

:47:30.:47:34.

to have stuff you another proud of, as we have seen. We have seen it,

:47:35.:47:40.

the information was out beforehand, it got lost in the noise in the

:47:41.:47:44.

final days of the election. Why are you smiling? He did not get lost in

:47:45.:47:55.

the final days of the election. WikiLeaks have denied Russia gave

:47:56.:47:58.

them information. The American people needed to have the truth of

:47:59.:48:02.

what was going on behind the scenes in the campaign. I ask, why was it

:48:03.:48:08.

chosen to reveal the Clinton campaign information, and if they

:48:09.:48:13.

have this for so long, how come nobody brought it out with all the

:48:14.:48:20.

fake news issues? This tweet, it is fake news, a political witchhunt, in

:48:21.:48:24.

capital letters. Obviously coming from him. Trying to squash the whole

:48:25.:48:34.

thing. Because of the relationship he has built up with people on

:48:35.:48:39.

Twitter, people will believe what he shares, as opposed to the press, he

:48:40.:48:45.

has managed to distance the press to people, through this fake news

:48:46.:48:49.

story. Thank you very much all of you. You can watch Donald Trump's

:48:50.:49:01.

speech and news conference like this afternoon. Live on the BBC News

:49:02.:49:03.

Channel. Coming up, we'll be speaking

:49:04.:49:05.

to Peter Lawrence, who's daughter Claudia has been missing

:49:06.:49:08.

for eight years. He wants a change in the law,

:49:09.:49:09.

so families can look Gaynor McConnell's baby boy Cayden

:49:10.:49:12.

was born with spina bifida in 2010. At three months old,

:49:13.:49:24.

he was diagnosed with meningitis, But a few months later the illness

:49:25.:49:26.

came back, and he died. His family discovered

:49:27.:49:33.

that he could have been saved, had doctors not missed vital signs

:49:34.:49:35.

about his condition, Cambridge University Hospitals,

:49:36.:49:37.

where Cayden was treated, has accepted his care fell below

:49:38.:49:45.

the standard he was entitled to. We can talk to mum Gaynor McConnell,

:49:46.:49:50.

who is talking in an She's never spoken publicly

:49:51.:49:55.

about this before. Also alongside her is her solicitor

:49:56.:50:00.

Renu Daly from Hudgell Solicitors. Thank you for coming on the

:50:01.:50:14.

programme. Was it clear early on that something was not right when he

:50:15.:50:19.

was born? He was born with a red lump on the bottom of his back.

:50:20.:50:28.

Diagnosed with spina bifida, seeing doctors, routine checks. He had a

:50:29.:50:47.

lung puncture, in the MRI scan, you could see that at the bottom of his

:50:48.:50:53.

spine. We can show that the audience. You can see from the

:50:54.:51:01.

image. At the bottom of the back. You can see the open channel, a hole

:51:02.:51:05.

going from the bottom of the spine to the skin of his bottom. That is

:51:06.:51:11.

when alarm bells should have been ringing with somebody. When there is

:51:12.:51:17.

a tract, there is a 60% chance there will be a termite. -- dermoid. A

:51:18.:51:37.

hole where bacteria can gather. And they missed it. He recovered from

:51:38.:51:44.

meningitis. The utopian home. A normal child. -- you took him home.

:51:45.:51:57.

In November he became very poorly, meningitis the second time, to be

:51:58.:52:01.

honest, it was way too late. He had already gone to that point. He was

:52:02.:52:08.

passed, there was no helping him. Tell our audience how you discovered

:52:09.:52:13.

that vital signs had been missed from that earlier MRI scan? I was

:52:14.:52:19.

asking a lot of questions, constantly I felt I was fobbed off.

:52:20.:52:24.

I felt the only way I could get the answers I needed was through a

:52:25.:52:29.

solicitor. I went there to get the answers I needed. From there, we

:52:30.:52:35.

have the scans, we have seen it all, we notice straightaway. If we

:52:36.:52:41.

noticed, the doctors should notice. Tell us about the legal case you

:52:42.:52:44.

have brought against this particular trust. Gaynor wanted answers, to

:52:45.:52:50.

know what happened to her son. The hospital did not ask any questions

:52:51.:52:56.

she had. We investigated the treatment she had, that he had. It

:52:57.:53:03.

turned out there or failings, and Gaynor has described them perfectly.

:53:04.:53:07.

They failed to explore the tracks, and the fact there might be a

:53:08.:53:13.

dermoid. In all likelihood it was that dermoid that caused the second

:53:14.:53:17.

bout of meningitis. If that had been removed after the first episode, he

:53:18.:53:21.

would never have got the second episode, and would be alive today.

:53:22.:53:25.

The key point is that they missed the open channel on the MRI scan.

:53:26.:53:29.

Had they seen that, that would have set alarm bells ringing them that

:53:30.:53:32.

they would have done further exploratory surgery, and potentially

:53:33.:53:40.

found that dermoid Juma, which could harbour bacteria and meningitis. How

:53:41.:53:45.

many years did it take to get that answer? It is taken four years of

:53:46.:53:49.

investigation, it is the determination of Gaynor to stick

:53:50.:53:54.

with it. Many people have said, it is time to move on. Let go of your

:53:55.:53:59.

son. She has been absolutely determined from day one she wanted

:54:00.:54:04.

her answers. It was only a few weeks ago that the trust admitted

:54:05.:54:09.

liability, and that he would not have got meningitis second time

:54:10.:54:13.

around. Had it not been for their failings. It is taken that long, and

:54:14.:54:18.

that level of determination from a mum to find out what happened to her

:54:19.:54:19.

son. In a statement, a Cambridge

:54:20.:54:22.

University Hospitals "A formal apology has been made

:54:23.:54:24.

by the Trust to Cayden's family and we are working closely

:54:25.:54:32.

with the family's solicitor There was no letter directed to me

:54:33.:54:43.

or my family, they were sorry for what happened was at the bottom of

:54:44.:54:48.

the letter, not directed at me or my family, or anyone else involved. Is

:54:49.:54:55.

that something you want? Yes, of course, I think I deserve that, my

:54:56.:55:00.

family deserve that. To know that my little boy went through so much

:55:01.:55:03.

pain, so many different things he went through. He deserves the

:55:04.:55:08.

apology. It is heartbreaking, not fair what he went through. The least

:55:09.:55:14.

we deserve an apology. After four years, to finally acknowledge that

:55:15.:55:19.

the SP standard of care your little boy received was way below what he

:55:20.:55:26.

should expected, how did you react? I always knew, that was the reason I

:55:27.:55:32.

wanted to pursue it. A lot of parents are constantly being fobbed

:55:33.:55:36.

off. Getting told something, they have to take that as the final

:55:37.:55:41.

answer. No, they don't. Nobody knows their child better than the parents

:55:42.:55:46.

or carers. If you have any questions, keep pushing, keep

:55:47.:55:49.

pushing until you get the answer you want this they be afraid to keep

:55:50.:55:52.

asking. That is your message to parents. But you do keep pushing.

:55:53.:55:57.

You still did not get those answers. You have them now. Eventually I did.

:55:58.:56:02.

That is the most heartbreaking thing. It has taken going to

:56:03.:56:08.

solicitors, to get the answers I needed when they couldn't quite

:56:09.:56:11.

easily given me the answers themselves. How do you remember your

:56:12.:56:17.

little boy? He was a beautiful little boy, happy, no matter what he

:56:18.:56:22.

went through, always smiling. A typical little boy. Beautiful little

:56:23.:56:28.

boy. Thank you for talking, in your first interview. We appreciate you

:56:29.:56:34.

coming on. Thank you for your message to parents. Still to come,

:56:35.:56:40.

more on our main story about secondary ticketing. We will speak

:56:41.:56:45.

to the lead singer of a band who has actually campaigned against the

:56:46.:56:46.

practice. Let's get the latest weather

:56:47.:56:48.

update - with Carol. There certainly is a lot of weather.

:56:49.:57:01.

Very strong winds, gusting over 120 mph overnight over the Cairngorms.

:57:02.:57:06.

Even across northern Scotland we had gusts of 70 miles an hour. Looking

:57:07.:57:12.

at over 50 odd as we push over southern Scotland and northern

:57:13.:57:17.

England. Still very gusty. For the next few days, sleet and snow

:57:18.:57:20.

reintroduced into the forecast. Already happening at the moment. Icy

:57:21.:57:27.

roads, Gaels three today. If you are travelling, bear that in mind, if

:57:28.:57:32.

you are in a high sided vehicles. We also have wintry showers packing in

:57:33.:57:36.

across Scotland, not just the hills, but some getting down to lower

:57:37.:57:41.

levels. A wintry flavour across northern England and also Northern

:57:42.:57:46.

Ireland. Coupled with the wind, some treacherous conditions, blizzards

:57:47.:57:51.

across the Scottish mountains. Sunshine in between the showers and

:57:52.:57:55.

as we come further south. Maximum temperatures to date. As we go

:57:56.:57:59.

through the day they are going down. A risk of ice overnight on untreated

:58:00.:58:04.

surfaces. Heavier and more frequent showers coming across Scotland,

:58:05.:58:07.

Northern Ireland and northern England. Some across the hills of

:58:08.:58:12.

Wales. Also looking at the next system coming in from the

:58:13.:58:16.

south-west. This system will bring us some snow as it engages with the

:58:17.:58:22.

cold air, pulling in the north-westerly wind, readily turning

:58:23.:58:24.

into snow for some even at lower levels. First thing in the morning

:58:25.:58:30.

bringing a lot of rain, as it drifts from the west to the east, some of

:58:31.:58:34.

the rain being heavy, leading to surface water flooding. Hill snow

:58:35.:58:41.

across the hills of Wales. The wind changes to a north-westerly, the

:58:42.:58:45.

cold air feeding in. From Hampshire towards the watch, at all points

:58:46.:58:50.

south-east, at risk of sleet and snow. Locally two, to five

:58:51.:58:56.

centimetres. As much as ten centimetres. That area could change.

:58:57.:59:01.

Do not make this the last weather forecast you watch. In the northern

:59:02.:59:06.

half of the country, Scotland, Northern Ireland, England, a lot of

:59:07.:59:11.

wintry showers, even at lower levels, some bright spells of

:59:12.:59:15.

sunshine. The winds slowly easing, still feeling cold wherever you are.

:59:16.:59:22.

A risk of ice. Temperatures in Aberdeen, one. Manchester, three.

:59:23.:59:26.

Adding on the wind-chill, minus four, or freezing. Getting the

:59:27.:59:32.

message it is going to be cold. Thursday night, Frost. Especially

:59:33.:59:38.

ice. Travelling thirsting on Friday morning, watch out for that. We're

:59:39.:59:45.

getting this little run bringing the risk of snow down the east coast of

:59:46.:59:48.

England, possibly into the London area while that clears away. Left

:59:49.:59:54.

with a straight northerly, cold direction through Friday, likely to

:59:55.:59:57.

see wintry showers across the East Coast. That is whipping up some

:59:58.:00:03.

large waves. Also the risk of some localised coastal flooding across

:00:04.:00:06.

some areas in eastern England. More tomorrow.

:00:07.:00:18.

We'll have more on secondary ticketing websites, and we'll be

:00:19.:00:27.

talking to Josh Franceschi from the band You Me at Six,

:00:28.:00:32.

as well as the music journalist Lauren Page.

:00:33.:00:41.

We will speak to Peter Lawrence, who's daughter Claudia has been

:00:42.:00:54.

He is calling for a change in the law to allow relatives

:00:55.:00:58.

of missing people to take legal control of their affairs.

:00:59.:01:00.

The charity Banardo's is calling for the Government to introduce

:01:01.:01:02.

compulsory age appropriate sex and relationships education.

:01:03.:01:04.

We'll be speaking to an MP who campaigns on the subject.

:01:05.:01:12.

Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:01:13.:01:15.

The Kremlin has dismissed reports that it has compromising information

:01:16.:01:18.

about US President-elect Donald Trump.

:01:19.:01:21.

Unconfirmed reports have emerged in the American media that Russian

:01:22.:01:24.

intelligence agencies have damaging information about Mr Trump's

:01:25.:01:26.

In a tweet, Mr Trump denounced the reports

:01:27.:01:30.

Barack Obama has delivered his farewell address as US President.

:01:31.:01:38.

In an emotional speech in Chicago, he said he believed the country

:01:39.:01:41.

was in a better, stronger place than when he was first

:01:42.:01:43.

The President admitted progress had not gone far enough,

:01:44.:01:46.

but he called on the American people to put aside their differences and

:01:47.:01:49.

I'm asking you to hold fast to that faith written into our founding

:01:50.:02:01.

by slaves documents, that idea of whisper

:02:02.:02:04.

by slaves and abolitionists, that spirit sung by immigrants

:02:05.:02:07.

and homesteaders and those who marched for justice.

:02:08.:02:11.

That creed, reaffirmed by those what planted flags from foreign

:02:12.:02:17.

battlefields to the surface of the moon.

:02:18.:02:19.

A creed at the core of every American whose story

:02:20.:02:22.

A 15-year-old girl has been charged with the murder

:02:23.:02:32.

Katie Rough died in hospital on Monday after being found

:02:33.:02:36.

with serious injuries near a playing field in the Woodthorpe area.

:02:37.:02:39.

The teenager is due to appear before magistrates' later this morning.

:02:40.:02:44.

An investigation for this programme has found that the management team

:02:45.:02:50.

for a high-profile British singer has been placing tickets

:02:51.:02:52.

for their stadium tour directly onto a resale website.

:02:53.:02:55.

The artist's management team has previously called on the Government

:02:56.:02:58.

to take stronger action against resale sites.

:02:59.:03:01.

Secondary ticketing websites are routinely used by touts to sell

:03:02.:03:03.

We'll have more on this in a few minutes' time.

:03:04.:03:18.

20 people have been rescued from the top

:03:19.:03:19.

They were trapped and helped down from the ride at

:03:20.:03:23.

Local media said there were no reports of injuries.

:03:24.:03:27.

It's thought a mechanical problem with a chain

:03:28.:03:28.

Now take a look at this amazing insight into the daily

:03:29.:03:36.

Scientists fitted a camera to the neck of a female polar bear

:03:37.:03:40.

from the Southern Beaufort Sea, just north of Alaska.

:03:41.:03:42.

The footage gives a bear's-eye view of her feeding,

:03:43.:03:44.

The US Geological Survey hopes it'll help researchers better understand

:03:45.:03:48.

how the animals are coping with declining sea ice levels.

:03:49.:03:50.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:03:51.:03:52.

Thank you for your comments on secondary ticketing sites and our

:03:53.:04:04.

revelations about Robbie Williams' management team sending the tickets

:04:05.:04:10.

to resale sites. Steve says, "Supply and demand wins. People don't have

:04:11.:04:15.

to pay the inflated prices." Lee says, "How many fans are happy to

:04:16.:04:20.

download albums for free?" Brian says, "Where does the ticket market

:04:21.:04:25.

make it awkward for everyone? Let the main ticket sales do the

:04:26.:04:30.

selling, not the secondary sites." Ian says, "Those who pay the

:04:31.:04:36.

inflated prices have more money than sense."

:04:37.:04:38.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning.

:04:39.:04:40.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:04:41.:04:44.

Jose Mourinho has told Manchester United supporters that

:04:45.:04:47.

wants them to "come and play with us", when his side take

:04:48.:04:50.

Mourinho urged fans to not regard the match

:04:51.:04:53.

He was speaking after his side's 2-0 win in the first leg of the EFL Cup

:04:54.:04:59.

Goals from Juan Mata and Marouane Fellaini

:05:00.:05:01.

were the difference between the sides.

:05:02.:05:04.

Liverpool face Southampton in the other semi-final tonight.

:05:05.:05:08.

Jurgen Klopp was criticised for the young team he fielded

:05:09.:05:11.

in the FA Cup, but is expected to bring back his big

:05:12.:05:14.

As long as you are involved, it is the most important Cup,

:05:15.:05:22.

So that's how we see it and so, Southampton, for example,

:05:23.:05:29.

if you want to talk about intensity, they had a more intense time

:05:30.:05:32.

than we had so there is no advantage for one side.

:05:33.:05:35.

The family of boxer Nick Blackwell have told the BBC

:05:36.:05:40.

he's unable to walk and it'll be a year before

:05:41.:05:43.

Blackwell was put in an induced coma after suffering severe

:05:44.:05:47.

head injuries in a fight with Chris Eubank Junior last March.

:05:48.:05:49.

He then went on to take part in an unsanctioned sparring

:05:50.:05:52.

session in November which left him in a coma

:05:53.:05:54.

14-time Paralympic gold medallist Dame Sarah Storey says athletes

:05:55.:06:02.

deserve a lot more time to prepare for the Para-cycling Track

:06:03.:06:04.

The UCI announced yesterday the event would take place

:06:05.:06:13.

in Los Angeles from 2nd March - just seven weeks away.

:06:14.:06:15.

Storey says she's been pressing for a date to be named

:06:16.:06:18.

UCI president Brian Cookson has defended the decision saying that

:06:19.:06:22.

holding the championships for the first time in

:06:23.:06:23.

a post-Paralympic season signifies "notable progress".

:06:24.:06:28.

We're unlikely to ever see Rory McIlroy compete at the Olympics.

:06:29.:06:34.

The world number two in golf pulled out of the Rio Games,

:06:35.:06:36.

and has said he probably won't take part in Tokyo 2020 either.

:06:37.:06:39.

The fact that he could represent either Great Britain or Ireland

:06:40.:06:42.

More and more likely than not I won't be playing

:06:43.:06:54.

Just because of my personal feelings towards, not the Olympic Games,

:06:55.:06:58.

I think they are great and I think golf included in the Olympics

:06:59.:07:01.

is fantastic, but just for me, it's something I don't want to get

:07:02.:07:04.

Johanna Konta is through to the semi-finals of

:07:05.:07:08.

the Sydney International after beating Daria Kasatkina

:07:09.:07:09.

The British number one had to come from behind in the second set

:07:10.:07:13.

Konta will play former Wimbledon finalist Eugenie Buchard

:07:14.:07:17.

Dan Evans came through three sets against Marcel Granollers

:07:18.:07:22.

Joe Marlow will miss the first of England's Six Makeses matches. The

:07:23.:07:38.

prop has been ruled out in the match against France after breaking his

:07:39.:07:43.

leg before Harlequins match at Sale at the weekend.

:07:44.:07:50.

The headlines are coming up later on. For now, Victoria, it's back to

:07:51.:07:54.

you. Robbie Williams management team have

:07:55.:08:03.

yet to very respond to the fact that tickets are being sent to them to

:08:04.:08:13.

resale websites. Robbie if you're watching, get in touch with us.

:08:14.:08:21.

Our reporter Chi Chi Izundu's been looking into this one.

:08:22.:08:23.

There are more and more sites where you can get hold of a ticket

:08:24.:08:26.

for a gig or a show, but it seems it's getting more

:08:27.:08:29.

and more difficult to get one at a reasonable price.

:08:30.:08:31.

And that could be down to the proliferation of resale

:08:32.:08:34.

sites, or secondary ticketing websites where fans

:08:35.:08:35.

Have the artists actually allowed for, or given permission,

:08:36.:08:39.

for prices of their tickets at their events to be sold

:08:40.:08:41.

But it seems it's not just the fans uploading tickets on to these sites,

:08:42.:08:46.

as highlighted recently by a committee of MPs.

:08:47.:08:50.

We're actually working with one artist at the moment

:08:51.:08:56.

whereby we're openly, transparently listing

:08:57.:08:57.

those tickets within Get Me In and Seatwave,

:08:58.:08:59.

saying, these are the official artist tickets.

:09:00.:09:01.

Ticketmaster confirmed to me that that artist

:09:02.:09:05.

Here is a ticket you can buy on Ticketmaster's website.

:09:06.:09:11.

I'm feeling flush, so let's get some good seats.

:09:12.:09:13.

These tickets are direct from the event organiser,

:09:14.:09:22.

very similar seats, one block over from the stage, at ?160 each.

:09:23.:09:29.

It's being sold for the first time on a secondary site.

:09:30.:09:38.

Ticketmaster say these platinum tickets are the best seats

:09:39.:09:40.

in the house, but confirmed they come with no extra perks.

:09:41.:09:43.

But there is a ?65 difference between these two very similar

:09:44.:09:46.

seats, even though they both come directly from the event organisers.

:09:47.:09:49.

Now, Robbie and his management aren't doing anything illegal.

:09:50.:09:56.

They're not breaking any laws or any rules.

:09:57.:09:58.

But some people have said that this is just greedy.

:09:59.:10:00.

In 2015, a number of promoters and artists' managers signed an open

:10:01.:10:04.

letter to the Government asking them to take a harsher stance

:10:05.:10:06.

Harvey Goldsmith, who has promoted acts like Michael Jackson

:10:07.:10:10.

had Madonna, signed it, and we pointed out

:10:11.:10:12.

I think it is wrong, but, hopefully, most of the people who have signed

:10:13.:10:20.

the petition are acting honourably and do everything that they can do

:10:21.:10:23.

to prevent tickets being sold on the secondary market.

:10:24.:10:29.

Ticketmaster say they are being transparent, but it does seem

:10:30.:10:35.

you're paying more for a ticket for no real reason, when you can get

:10:36.:10:38.

And despite numerous requests for a statement,

:10:39.:10:41.

Robbie's management team, IE Music, haven't responded.

:10:42.:10:46.

And to watch that film in full and share it you can head to our

:10:47.:10:50.

Obviously we asked Robbie Williams' management team

:10:51.:10:54.

for an comment or interview and so far no response.

:10:55.:10:57.

We also asked Stubhub and Viagogo for a comment -

:10:58.:10:59.

And Ticketmaster tell us, "Platinum tickets are a very small

:11:00.:11:03.

percentage of the best seats in the house that are priced

:11:04.:11:05.

according to demand, in consultation with our clients,

:11:06.:11:07.

Let's talk to Josh Franceschi, lead singer from the band

:11:08.:11:13.

You Me At Six and music journalist Lauren Page.

:11:14.:11:19.

Welcome both of you. Josh, your reaction, what do you think of

:11:20.:11:25.

Robbie Williams' tickets being placed directly on to resale

:11:26.:11:30.

websites by his team? I am surprised to hear that, but you know, I feel

:11:31.:11:35.

that maybe they thought they would get away with it, but I think Robbie

:11:36.:11:38.

Williams at the level he's at doesn't need the money, he doesn't

:11:39.:11:42.

need the extra money. I'm surprised that he's going down that route, but

:11:43.:11:46.

at the same time, you know, that's their choice, but this is what this

:11:47.:11:51.

whole fight is about, if we were to eliminate the secondary websites

:11:52.:11:53.

then we wouldn't behaving this conversation anyway. When you say,

:11:54.:11:56.

they probably thought they could get away with it, they're not doing

:11:57.:12:00.

anything illegal? Nothing illegal, but you are already charging ?95 for

:12:01.:12:08.

a show as the promotional video revealed beforehand, this is only

:12:09.:12:12.

seats one block over, how can you charge an extra ?60 for that? I

:12:13.:12:17.

don't understand. How would you describe that behaviour then?

:12:18.:12:22.

Greedy. Simple as that? Simple as that, it is greedy. Your ticket is

:12:23.:12:30.

?95 and you're playing Wembley Stadium. You bought tickets back

:12:31.:12:38.

interest a secondary website and sold them yourself to the fans? The

:12:39.:12:42.

relationship between the artist and the fans need to be respected and I

:12:43.:12:45.

think it needs to be nurtured and I feel that, you know, without our

:12:46.:12:49.

fanbase I wouldn't be sitting talking to you with a number one

:12:50.:12:53.

midweek album. So, it is very important to us that our fans know

:12:54.:12:58.

we value their support. But more over than that, I think, for there

:12:59.:13:04.

to be transparency, this sort of engagement is really critical for

:13:05.:13:07.

the trust to continue to build and for everyone to move forward, you

:13:08.:13:10.

know, in a good way. Lauren, what do you think of our revelations today?

:13:11.:13:14.

I'm really surprised to be honest. I mean like Josh just said, you're

:13:15.:13:17.

Robbie Williams, you don't need the extra money. Especially, what

:13:18.:13:22.

difference is what Robbie's management doing any different to

:13:23.:13:24.

the ticket touts that are putting the tickets on other websites and

:13:25.:13:28.

charging considerably more? It can't be one rule for one and one for

:13:29.:13:32.

another. Robbie and the touts are on the same level here. Well, it is not

:13:33.:13:37.

Robbie himself, it is the team. He may have no idea what his team are

:13:38.:13:42.

doing. It would be really to go to see how he reacts. We're on air for

:13:43.:13:46.

another hour. I'd love him to get in touch and we can talk to him, but

:13:47.:13:50.

even at these higher prices, this is what a lot of our audience are

:13:51.:13:54.

saying, even at the higher prices, there is a demand, so shouldn't we

:13:55.:14:00.

leave it to the market? I guess you're always going to go and see

:14:01.:14:06.

your favourite artist fine. Sometimes I consider thinking I

:14:07.:14:10.

might have to pay a bit extra, but for the ex-at any time that this

:14:11.:14:14.

revelation that's come out today, ?60 plus for a few rows away, the

:14:15.:14:18.

marred account, they want the tickets, but is it really OK to be

:14:19.:14:22.

telling people that are true fans right, you can't go to this gig

:14:23.:14:26.

because you can't afford it, but we'll hike the prices and see if

:14:27.:14:32.

you're a proper fan or not. Artists want true fans at their gigs and

:14:33.:14:36.

this isn't right. What do you think about the principle of secondary

:14:37.:14:40.

ticket sites. Look, you are a fan, you've got a ticket, you break your

:14:41.:14:43.

leg and you can't go, here is a website to help you resell it?

:14:44.:14:48.

Whether it is maybe you're ill or broken your leg and you can't go, I

:14:49.:14:51.

understand when people need to shift their tickets and sell them on to

:14:52.:14:54.

someone else to save like a really good ticket going to waste. But I

:14:55.:14:59.

think then if people are maybe charging ?1 or ?2 to cover the

:15:00.:15:04.

postage of the ticket, maybe some insurance so it can be tracked when

:15:05.:15:07.

it is sent to them, that's OK, but the secondary sites when they are

:15:08.:15:12.

telling tickets ?50 or ?60 more, I don't agree with that. Let me read

:15:13.:15:15.

comments from people watching you talk about this. Aaron says, "Don't

:15:16.:15:21.

buy the resale tickets. If artists find themselves performing in half

:15:22.:15:26.

empty arenas, they will do something about it." Is that true? That's

:15:27.:15:34.

fair. I agree that you know really, you know, genuine artists want

:15:35.:15:39.

genuine fans at their shows. All we want when we perform is to see,

:15:40.:15:43.

we're making a positive difference to and people are enjoying

:15:44.:15:46.

themselves and they are using it as a release, it is difficult when a

:15:47.:15:50.

show is half sold or not full capacity because it is more

:15:51.:15:54.

difficult to get the atmosphere going and yeah, I agree with that

:15:55.:15:58.

statement, definitely. If the show is half sold then you have to drop,

:15:59.:16:02.

as the artist, as the artist's team, you have to drop the prices, don't

:16:03.:16:07.

you? Yeah, I mean, I guess so, but at the same time it is not fair on

:16:08.:16:17.

the people that have bought the tickets already. Robbie Williams

:16:18.:16:22.

tickets are ?95 in stadium. We're talking about Wembley Stadium and

:16:23.:16:26.

we're talking about multiple nights. I went to some Wembley Stadium shows

:16:27.:16:30.

this summer which were not sold out, or because of the secondary

:16:31.:16:33.

ticketing market we have been discussing, you know, it has been

:16:34.:16:36.

suffering because of that, it was a shame because the shows the artists

:16:37.:16:40.

were putting on were great, but when you look around, there is 30,000

:16:41.:16:43.

empty seats, it makes a difference to the evening, definitely. This

:16:44.:16:46.

comment from Matt on Facebook, "I wanted to take my wife to see Phil

:16:47.:16:50.

Collins. Tickets were gone in ten minutes. Face value for front row

:16:51.:16:55.

seats were ?150, you couldn't get a ticket on a sister site for less

:16:56.:17:01.

than ?1,000." Right, Josh, what's your plan, your solution? What would

:17:02.:17:04.

you do about the secondary ticketing sites? My solution would be for the

:17:05.:17:10.

primary websites to put their name on this and say look, you know we

:17:11.:17:15.

understand that we need to understand our market and understand

:17:16.:17:19.

the sort of ethical and moral obligations that we have towards

:17:20.:17:26.

music lovers. And I would really encourage them to

:17:27.:17:31.

not work with secondary websites especially if they own them to shut

:17:32.:17:37.

them down. It is about access. We need to make it transparent and fair

:17:38.:17:42.

playing field for everybody. We can't have that when people can sell

:17:43.:17:45.

the tickets for Phil Collins for ?1,000. That's just ridiculous. The

:17:46.:17:49.

money is not going to the artist. That's not what it is about, but it

:17:50.:17:52.

is because the money is leaving the industry and it is not being pumped

:17:53.:17:55.

back into it. What's the point really?

:17:56.:18:01.

This is due you have a solution, Lauren? -- do you have a solution?

:18:02.:18:12.

Yes, we need to get true fans of the gates, fans are desperate to see

:18:13.:18:16.

certain acts, they will go on to websites and buy the tickets. It is

:18:17.:18:20.

finding the good level between people using secondary sites, and

:18:21.:18:25.

abusing them to make a profit, and people who need to get rid of their

:18:26.:18:29.

ticket for a little bit more. To cover the cost of postage and things

:18:30.:18:36.

like that. Thank you for coming onto the programme.

:18:37.:18:42.

Your views are welcome. So many messages from you. Gareth says it is

:18:43.:18:49.

not so much the prices, but it is the autobox grabbing tickets on

:18:50.:18:55.

launch that spoiler for Joe Public. Why can't we go back to venue only

:18:56.:18:57.

selling tickets. Does sex education in

:18:58.:19:00.

schools need an overhaul? We'll be speaking to an MP

:19:01.:19:03.

who believes it should be provided Families of missing people

:19:04.:19:06.

are calling for a change in the law so that they can take charge

:19:07.:19:13.

of their loved one's affairs Hundreds of thousands of people go

:19:14.:19:16.

missing in the UK every year - many of them are found,

:19:17.:19:20.

but hundreds remain missing But have you ever thought

:19:21.:19:22.

about what happens to the life left What happens to their home,

:19:23.:19:26.

their belongings? The father of York chef

:19:27.:19:30.

Claudia Lawrence says he was astonished to find

:19:31.:19:32.

he was blocked from managing his daughter's affairs

:19:33.:19:35.

after she went missing in 2009. He's spearheading the call

:19:36.:19:43.

for a change in the law to allow a relative to be appointed legal

:19:44.:19:48.

guardian of a missing Let's talk now to Peter Lawrence,

:19:49.:19:51.

the father of Claudia Lawrence, a chef at the University of York

:19:52.:19:56.

who went missing in 2009. And Susannah Drury from

:19:57.:20:01.

the charity Missing People. Peter, how are you? Tawalo audience

:20:02.:20:21.

about the issue. Can I start off when Claudia, my daughter went

:20:22.:20:25.

missing in March 2000 nine. Literally a few weeks after she went

:20:26.:20:30.

missing, I realise there is no law in this country which allows the

:20:31.:20:35.

families of those who go missing to deal with all the things you and I

:20:36.:20:41.

do every day. Mortgages, insurance, bank accounts, direct debits.

:20:42.:20:47.

Everything else we take for granted. You cannot do, the banks, the

:20:48.:20:51.

building societies, insurance companies quite rightly say I'm

:20:52.:20:57.

sorry, you are not our customer. We cannot take instructions. They want

:20:58.:21:01.

to help, they have been supportive of this. They cannot at the moment.

:21:02.:21:07.

That is why I have been campaigning about this for a long time. In terms

:21:08.:21:14.

of the practical things you wanted to do on behalf of your daughter.

:21:15.:21:20.

She was 35 when she went missing. She had mortgage, bank accounts,

:21:21.:21:24.

car, all the bills going with an adult life. You have to do with

:21:25.:21:32.

that. Some things you can obviously cope with. I would not say deal with

:21:33.:21:39.

properly. Some things you cannot. As an example, Claudia had a savings

:21:40.:21:51.

account which matured a year after she went missing. It has been

:21:52.:21:55.

sitting there losing money because the bank cannot allow it to be

:21:56.:22:01.

reinvested in the reference in order for you to have access to areas of

:22:02.:22:09.

your daughter's life... You need this law or you could apply for a

:22:10.:22:15.

death certificate. We could, but we're not ready to do that. A lot of

:22:16.:22:21.

people are not in that position. About 2500 families who are

:22:22.:22:26.

suffering from this problem at the moment. At any one time. Give us

:22:27.:22:32.

some insight why you do not want to apply for a death certificate? And

:22:33.:22:37.

we still have hope that Claudia may be alone. That is why we don't want

:22:38.:22:42.

to go down the course at the moment. Even though it I have very much

:22:43.:22:47.

promoted the presumption of death built into legislation two or three

:22:48.:22:53.

years ago. It was not personal, it was because I am able to speak for

:22:54.:23:00.

me and talk in public, which is the my whole life really. Doing this

:23:01.:23:08.

largely for other people. Sue, how much is this an issue for those who

:23:09.:23:15.

go missing in their families? At the charity Missing People we know there

:23:16.:23:20.

are around 2500 families who can benefit from this guardianship

:23:21.:23:23.

powers, which we have been campaigning for. This law is needed

:23:24.:23:28.

so urgently, many families like Peter have been waiting many years

:23:29.:23:34.

for the right to be able to step in and look after their loved 1's

:23:35.:23:37.

property. Of course, with every month that passes, more and more

:23:38.:23:40.

families find themselves in this horrendous situation. In some cases

:23:41.:23:47.

it can be a part that goes missing, leaving behind someone with

:23:48.:23:50.

children, the arrangement weather has to be two signatures where you

:23:51.:23:56.

can access accounts. Absolutely we have worked with a woman whose

:23:57.:24:00.

husband went missing, unfortunately she described it as becoming like

:24:01.:24:07.

single-parent overnight. Still the same bills and mortgages. Because it

:24:08.:24:10.

has been organising mortgage, without his signature she was unable

:24:11.:24:15.

to change the terms and conditions of the mortgage, payments, or sell

:24:16.:24:20.

the house. Which understandably quite quickly became unaffordable.

:24:21.:24:27.

She was fortunate enough for her family to be able to step in and

:24:28.:24:32.

help her out financially. Otherwise it would have been likely she would

:24:33.:24:35.

have lost her home for her and her son. Are the family still helping

:24:36.:24:41.

her out? That is the only option for families to do. Unless, the families

:24:42.:24:48.

want to go down the line of apply to have the loved one presumed dead.

:24:49.:24:56.

When a family hopes are believed -- hopes and believes they are still

:24:57.:24:59.

alive, it is not a path they want to take. Tell us about the specifics in

:25:00.:25:03.

the change in legislation you would like to see? The idea is very

:25:04.:25:09.

similar to a power of attorney, which a lot of people would be

:25:10.:25:14.

familiar with. Once someone has been missing for 90 days, not just a

:25:15.:25:20.

short thing, someone in the family will be able to apply to a High

:25:21.:25:25.

Court judge, and say we really need to be able to look after our

:25:26.:25:30.

daughter's or husband's affairs. Please appointed me as her guardian

:25:31.:25:37.

to enable me to do that. If the judge agrees, he will issue a

:25:38.:25:41.

certificate which can be produced to the bank, building society insurance

:25:42.:25:47.

company, or anybody else involved. They will then treat you as their

:25:48.:25:52.

customer. How would a judge make that decision? What sort of

:25:53.:25:55.

documentation would you have to provide? You have to show you are a

:25:56.:26:08.

member of the family, the person has been missing for 90 days, not

:26:09.:26:12.

difficult, almost inevitably it will have been reported to the police.

:26:13.:26:17.

You don't have to show you are suitable person. Let me ask about

:26:18.:26:24.

safeguards. What kind of safeguards would there be so a judge could be

:26:25.:26:29.

sure they would be guardian was acting in the best interests of

:26:30.:26:36.

either the person giving missing or those left behind? Absolutely very

:26:37.:26:41.

important, as you point out a judge making a decision can be sure that

:26:42.:26:45.

the Guardian will act in the best interest of the missing person and

:26:46.:26:49.

the system detects the Guardian as well. There are safeguards built

:26:50.:26:54.

into the system, anybody wanting to be a Guardian will have to tell the

:26:55.:27:00.

family it is their intention. If any family members disagree they can

:27:01.:27:03.

tell the judge about their concerns. The judge will hear that, and make a

:27:04.:27:09.

decision based on that. When a Guardian is appointed, there will be

:27:10.:27:12.

oversight. There is the office of the Public Guardian. The Guardian

:27:13.:27:17.

will have to show them the decisions they have made, file their accounts,

:27:18.:27:22.

to be checked by the body. If they have concerns, they will report that

:27:23.:27:30.

facts of the court. Telus you hope your daughter is still alive for so

:27:31.:27:38.

-- tell us why you hope your daughter is still alive? It is hoped

:27:39.:27:44.

faith, it gets more difficult as time goes on. Now nearly eight

:27:45.:27:52.

years. I remember very startlingly when the first police officer in

:27:53.:27:59.

charge announced they were treating Claudia's disappearance as murder.

:28:00.:28:05.

He and I were on the same media platform, and he was saying there is

:28:06.:28:11.

no evidence that Claudia is alive. I was saying there was no evidence she

:28:12.:28:19.

is dead. Giving along parallel lines, both trying to find her and

:28:20.:28:24.

what happened. We'll was hope she is still alive, and the police are

:28:25.:28:27.

treating it as a murder enquiry. No conflict in that. The hope is still

:28:28.:28:35.

there. The Archbishop of York has been very helpful all the way

:28:36.:28:40.

through this. Just occasionally saying Peter, she is alive. The

:28:41.:28:46.

police have not been able to find out what happened to her. Do you

:28:47.:28:54.

have a theory? I have always had a theory, right from the outset.

:28:55.:28:57.

Because of how Claudia's house looked when she went into it -- when

:28:58.:29:06.

I went into it. It looked as if she put her boots on, got her rucksack,

:29:07.:29:13.

and went off to work. I think she was picked up by someone on her way

:29:14.:29:18.

to work. Very early in the morning, about 5:30 a.m.. Clearly dark.

:29:19.:29:23.

Although it is a residential district, there are areas where it

:29:24.:29:27.

is just parkland. I have a horrible feeling she was picked up and taken

:29:28.:29:34.

away. What happened after that, I don't know. I'm grateful you spoke

:29:35.:29:40.

to us today. Thank you very much Peter.

:29:41.:29:50.

We will speak to an MP he believes age-appropriate sex education should

:29:51.:29:57.

be available for children as young as five. And a group of

:29:58.:30:01.

schoolchildren, and how they would feel about that.

:30:02.:30:05.

With the News here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom.

:30:06.:30:07.

The Kremlin has dismissed reports that it has compromising information

:30:08.:30:10.

about US President-elect Donald Trump.

:30:11.:30:12.

Unconfirmed reports have emerged in the American media that Russian

:30:13.:30:14.

intelligence agencies have damaging information about Mr Trump's

:30:15.:30:16.

In a tweet, Mr Trump denounced the reports

:30:17.:30:19.

Barack Obama has delivered his farewell address as US President,

:30:20.:30:32.

telling the American people he believes the country

:30:33.:30:34.

is in a better, stronger place than when he was first elected

:30:35.:30:37.

In an emotional speech in Chicago, he thanked his wife Michelle,

:30:38.:30:40.

his family and staff, as our correspondent

:30:41.:30:42.

Barack Obama returned to Chicago, the place where his political career

:30:43.:30:51.

began to deliver his long planned farewell address.

:30:52.:30:54.

The President used his platform to underline what he sees

:30:55.:30:58.

If I had told you that we would win marriage equality and secure

:30:59.:31:04.

the right to health insurance for another 20 million

:31:05.:31:06.

If I told you all that, you might have said our sights

:31:07.:31:23.

Turning to his theme of what could undermine

:31:24.:31:29.

America's democracy, the nation's first black

:31:30.:31:36.

president was direct about the state of race relations.

:31:37.:31:38.

After my election, there was talk of a post-racial America.

:31:39.:31:41.

Such a vision, however well intended, was never realistic.

:31:42.:31:43.

Race remains a potent and often divisive force in our society.

:31:44.:31:51.

Paying tribute to his wife Michelle and his daughters,

:31:52.:31:56.

For those who had lined up for hours to hear him speak in person,

:31:57.:32:03.

I thought it was very uplifting and it gave us a message

:32:04.:32:10.

of hope and encouragement and it was what we needed

:32:11.:32:14.

We had a tough election and we just need to keep fighting

:32:15.:32:20.

Barack Obama's supporters were heartened by his uplifting

:32:21.:32:24.

message tonight and he leaves office with his personal

:32:25.:32:26.

But that didn't stop the American voters from choosing Donald Trump

:32:27.:32:31.

to replace him and now Barack Obama must watch as Republicans

:32:32.:32:33.

Robbie Williams team is placing tickets directly on to resale

:32:34.:32:54.

ticketing websites at higher prices. The artist's management team has

:32:55.:32:56.

previously called on the Government to take stronger action against

:32:57.:33:01.

resale sites. Secondary ticketing websites are routinely used by touts

:33:02.:33:09.

to sell tickets at inflated prices. The front man of a band told us that

:33:10.:33:17.

he thinks that secondary websites need to be shutdown. I would

:33:18.:33:21.

encourage them not to work with secondary websites and if they own

:33:22.:33:25.

them to shut them down. It is about cultural access. We need to make it

:33:26.:33:30.

transparent and a fair playing field for everybody. So, we can't have

:33:31.:33:33.

that when people can sell the tickets like you said for Phil

:33:34.:33:38.

Collins for ?1,000. I mean, that's just ridiculous and the money is not

:33:39.:33:42.

going to the artist and that's what it is about, the money is leaving

:33:43.:33:48.

the industry and not being pumped back into it in any capacity, what's

:33:49.:33:58.

the point really? Centre more doctors are warning that

:33:59.:34:01.

the crisis in the NHS and social care is putting people's lives at

:34:02.:34:03.

risk. In a letter to Theresa May,

:34:04.:34:08.

the Royal College of Physicians said a shortage of resources means

:34:09.:34:12.

the quality of patient Charities working with elderly

:34:13.:34:14.

and disabled people have also written to the Prime Minister -

:34:15.:34:17.

calling for a long-term solution to funding

:34:18.:34:19.

for health and social care. The Department of Health says it's

:34:20.:34:21.

investing ?10 billion to relieve At 11.30am on the BBC News Channel,

:34:22.:34:24.

you can put your questions about the state of the NHS

:34:25.:34:28.

to our Health Editor Hugh Pym. Please get in touch with us

:34:29.:34:31.

to ask those questions. You can text us or send an e-mail

:34:32.:34:33.

or contact us via Twitter Police Scotland say that

:34:34.:34:36.

a man has been charged, after a lorry was blown over

:34:37.:34:40.

on the Forth Road Bridge, There has been major traffic

:34:41.:34:43.

disruption after the HGV was blown from the northbound lane

:34:44.:34:46.

onto the southbound carriageway The bridge is not expected to reopen

:34:47.:34:48.

until lunchtime at the earliest. 20 people have been

:34:49.:34:55.

rescued from the top They were trapped and helped

:34:56.:34:57.

down from the ride at Local media said there were no

:34:58.:35:01.

reports of injuries. It's thought a mechanical

:35:02.:35:04.

problem with a chain That's a summary of the latest

:35:05.:35:06.

news, join me for BBC Before the sport, we're going to

:35:07.:35:20.

talk, oh, I'm going to tell you what we're going to talk about after the

:35:21.:35:25.

sport. We're going to talk to a group of schoolchildren, about a

:35:26.:35:29.

report from Barnardo's, they are suggesting we need compulsory sex

:35:30.:35:31.

and relationship education in schools. Because they say, it would

:35:32.:35:37.

make young teenagers feel safer. So we're going to talk to some pupils

:35:38.:35:42.

and a Labour MP who has been campaigning on this and a deputy

:35:43.:35:45.

head. It is a subject that comes up a lot. It would be really

:35:46.:35:48.

interesting to hear what your view is as a parent. Do let me know.

:35:49.:35:52.

Manchester United have a 2-0 advantage after the first

:35:53.:36:00.

leg of their EFL Cup semi-final against Hull.

:36:01.:36:01.

Goals from Juan Mata and Marouane Fellaini

:36:02.:36:03.

at Old Trafford gave United their ninth win in a row.

:36:04.:36:06.

Boxer Nick Blackwell is still a year away from making a full recovery.

:36:07.:36:09.

Blackwell suffered serious head injuries in a fight

:36:10.:36:15.

with Chris Eubank Junior in March last year,

:36:16.:36:17.

in an unsanctioned sparring session in November.

:36:18.:36:20.

Joe Marler will miss at least the first of

:36:21.:36:22.

The prop has been ruled out of England's match against France

:36:23.:36:27.

after breaking his leg in the warm-up before

:36:28.:36:30.

Harlequins' Premiership match against Sale at the weekend.

:36:31.:36:32.

British number one Johanna Konta is through to the semi-finals

:36:33.:36:34.

She beat Daria Kasatkina in straight sets.

:36:35.:36:37.

Konta will face former Wimbledon finalist Eugenie Buchard

:36:38.:36:39.

More sport on BBC News throughout the day. But from me, that's all for

:36:40.:36:52.

now. Cheers, Hugh. One mum urged parents not to be

:36:53.:37:05.

fobbed off in they are worried about the health of their children.

:37:06.:37:09.

Gaynor McConnell's baby boy Cayden was born with spina bifida in 2010.

:37:10.:37:14.

At three-months-old he was diagnosed with meningitis which he survived.

:37:15.:37:18.

A few months later the illness came back and he died.

:37:19.:37:20.

His family discovered that he could have been saved,

:37:21.:37:23.

had doctors not missed vital signs about his condition and listened

:37:24.:37:26.

At five months he got men intis and had a lumbar puncture and MRI scan

:37:27.:37:44.

where you could see the tract. The tract is an open channel at the

:37:45.:37:47.

bottom of his spine. I think we've got that to show our audience and

:37:48.:37:52.

they will be able to see, you can see from this image there, is the

:37:53.:37:57.

actual MRI scan. At the bottom of his back where the white arrow is

:37:58.:38:01.

you can see the open channel, this hole effectively which goes from the

:38:02.:38:04.

bottom of his spine to the skin of his bottom effectively. That's when

:38:05.:38:10.

alarm bells should have been ringing with somebody amongst the medical

:38:11.:38:19.

staff? There is a 60% chance that it should be looked into. That means a

:38:20.:38:23.

mass of cells where bacteria can gather? Yes, and it can cause

:38:24.:38:30.

meningitis. And other infections and it wasn't looked into. They didn't

:38:31.:38:35.

look into it. They missed it? Completely. Right. So he recovered

:38:36.:38:39.

from meningitis, didn't he? The first time. You took him home, how

:38:40.:38:44.

was he getting on? He was a normal child, normal child. Normal cold,

:38:45.:38:50.

like a normal child. Yeah, and then in November, he became very poorly.

:38:51.:38:56.

Really poorly. And then it was meningitis a second time, but to be

:38:57.:38:59.

honest, it was way too late then. Was it? It was way too late, he had

:39:00.:39:04.

gone to that point where he was passed. There was no helping him

:39:05.:39:09.

then. Tell our audience how you discovered that vital signs had been

:39:10.:39:15.

missed from that earlier MRI scan? I was asking a lot of questions and I

:39:16.:39:20.

felt constantly I was being fobbed off, constantly and I felt the only

:39:21.:39:23.

way that I could get the answers I needed was through a solicitor. So I

:39:24.:39:27.

went to the solicitors to get the answers I needed to do and from

:39:28.:39:35.

there, we knew we had the scans and we noticed straightaway and if we

:39:36.:39:38.

noticed the doctors should have noticed. Tell us about the legal

:39:39.:39:41.

case that you've brought against this particular trust? Gaynor just

:39:42.:39:46.

wanted answers to know what happened to her son because the hospital

:39:47.:39:50.

hadn't answered any of the questions that heed had and she had doubts in

:39:51.:39:54.

her mind so we investigated the treatment that she had, that he had,

:39:55.:39:59.

sorry, and it turned out that there were failings and Gaynor's described

:40:00.:40:06.

them perfectly. They failed to explore the tract. In all likelihood

:40:07.:40:12.

it was the der moud that caused the second bout of meningitis and if

:40:13.:40:16.

that was removed after Cayden's first episode of meningitis, he

:40:17.:40:19.

would never have got a second episode and he would be alive today.

:40:20.:40:23.

Oh my goodness. The key point is they missed the open channel on the

:40:24.:40:28.

MRI scan. Had they seen that, that would have set alarm bells ringing

:40:29.:40:33.

and they have done further exploratory surgery and found that

:40:34.:40:37.

der moud tumour which can harbour bacteria and cause meningitis?

:40:38.:40:44.

Absolutely right. How many years did it take for you to get that answer?

:40:45.:40:49.

It has taken four years. Gaynor has stuck with it. Many people have

:40:50.:40:53.

said, you know, Gaynor it is time to move on and let go of your son and

:40:54.:40:58.

she has been determined from day one, that she wanted answers and it

:40:59.:41:04.

is only been a few weeks ago that the trust admitted liability for the

:41:05.:41:08.

failings and he wouldn't have got meningitis a second time around had

:41:09.:41:12.

it not been for their failings and it has taken that long and that

:41:13.:41:16.

level of determination from a mum to find out what happened to her son.

:41:17.:41:25.

Let me read what they say. Cambridge University Hospitals Trust

:41:26.:41:29.

acknowledge, being at fault for your little boy's death and they say they

:41:30.:41:34.

have made a formal apology to your family? No, they haven't. There was

:41:35.:41:38.

an apology in the letter to my solicitor. There was no letter

:41:39.:41:41.

directed to me or my family. They were sorry for what happened, it was

:41:42.:41:46.

at the bottom of the letter, not directed straight at me or my family

:41:47.:41:49.

or anyone else involved. Is that something you want? Yeah, of course,

:41:50.:41:55.

of course. I think I deserve that. I think my family deserve that. To

:41:56.:41:59.

know that, my little boy went through so much pain and so many

:42:00.:42:03.

different things he went through. I think he deserves the apology, it is

:42:04.:42:07.

heartbreaking of the it is not fair what he went through and I think the

:42:08.:42:10.

least we deserve is an apology from them. And after four years, for them

:42:11.:42:16.

finally to acknowledge that yes, the standard of care that your little

:42:17.:42:23.

boy received was way below what he should have expectedment how did you

:42:24.:42:28.

react to that? I always knew. It was the reason why I wanted to pursue T

:42:29.:42:32.

a lot of parents are being fobbed off. They're getting told something

:42:33.:42:36.

and they have to take that as the final answer. No, they don't. If

:42:37.:42:41.

nobody knows their child better than their parents or their carers. If

:42:42.:42:45.

you've got any questions, keep pushing and keep pushing until you

:42:46.:42:48.

get the answer. Don't be afraid to keep asking. That's your message to

:42:49.:42:52.

parents today? Massively. Massively. You know what, you did keep pushing

:42:53.:42:55.

and you still didn't get the answers. You got them now? Yeah.

:42:56.:43:01.

Eventually I did. I think that's the most heartbreaking thing. It has

:43:02.:43:06.

taken to go to the solicitors and get the answers I needed when they

:43:07.:43:10.

could have quite easily given me the answers themselves.

:43:11.:43:13.

How do you remember your little boy? Oh, he was a beautiful little boy.

:43:14.:43:18.

He was happy. No matter what he went through, he was always smiling. He

:43:19.:43:22.

was a typical little boy. A beautiful little boy.

:43:23.:43:28.

You can see the full interview on our programme page.

:43:29.:43:32.

Sex and relationship education in schools -

:43:33.:43:34.

a controversial issue with parents and teachers - and most

:43:35.:43:38.

schools don't have to provide compulsary sex ed.

:43:39.:43:50.

In fact, 2000 was the last overhaul of the curriculum

:43:51.:43:56.

that's before social media, before smartphones and before equal

:43:57.:43:58.

Sarah Champion says younger people are more tolerant of violence. There

:43:59.:44:18.

are calls from Barnardo's for the Government to introduce age

:44:19.:44:22.

appropriate sex education. It is being debated in the Commons this

:44:23.:44:30.

week. A poll by the charity show that children want the Government to

:44:31.:44:34.

introduce compulsory education on sex and relationships and

:44:35.:44:36.

three-quarters believe they would be safer if they had classes on the

:44:37.:44:38.

subject. Let's talk now to the Labour's women

:44:39.:44:47.

and equalities spokeswoman Saah Champion, Rebecca Jennings,

:44:48.:44:49.

who runs sex education classes Mumin Hamayun, Deputy Head

:44:50.:44:51.

from Whitefield School in London who is here with some

:44:52.:44:57.

of his pupils, Erizon, Welcome all of you. It goes without

:44:58.:45:07.

saying, we're going to have a frank conversation. We will use the

:45:08.:45:11.

correct terminology. If anybody doesn't want to hear this

:45:12.:45:13.

conversation turn the sound down for the next few minutes.

:45:14.:45:22.

What kind of things do you learn? In Year 11... What age are you? 15.

:45:23.:45:33.

We have dropped down days, learning about certain myths, general... Is

:45:34.:45:43.

it possible to become pregnant through anal sex. Relationships,

:45:44.:45:51.

what are unhealthy relationships. I am 16. We don't have lessons like

:45:52.:45:58.

that anymore, we have down days. We mainly learn about when things

:45:59.:46:08.

happen, I don't know what to say. You were going to talk about nations

:46:09.:46:13.

about too much drink, you may be taken advantage of. One of our

:46:14.:46:21.

lessons, we covered, when you get intoxicated with alcohol, men can

:46:22.:46:25.

take advantage of the women. Consequences like rape, you can

:46:26.:46:32.

become pregnant. I am 14, what we currently learn about is when we can

:46:33.:46:39.

stay protected when having sex. How men should respect women, if they do

:46:40.:46:41.

not want to have sex, without consent. We learn about rape, how it

:46:42.:46:50.

is not good. So we should respect women if they don't want to have

:46:51.:46:56.

sex, we should keep the relationship balanced and equal. Boys especially,

:46:57.:47:02.

we should learn we should not take advantage of girls when they are

:47:03.:47:06.

drunk. If they say yes when they are drunk, it is classified as illegal.

:47:07.:47:13.

They are not fully functional. I am 14 coming year ten, we still have

:47:14.:47:21.

lessons, we covered things like exploitation, how it is not

:47:22.:47:25.

necessarily people trafficking people across countries, it could

:47:26.:47:30.

just be you in a relationship with your partner your partner could be

:47:31.:47:35.

exploiting new by different things, psychologically harming you, not

:47:36.:47:39.

letting you go out with friends, things like that. Learning about

:47:40.:47:46.

relationships. What would you say the split is between the sexual side

:47:47.:47:49.

of things and the relationships I've, I know they can be

:47:50.:47:54.

intertwined. Mostly about diseases, condom is, the myths of getting

:47:55.:48:07.

pregnant. All relationships? PSHE, the things we learn. Physical social

:48:08.:48:18.

health and education. Personal. We cover the social side of things, we

:48:19.:48:23.

also cover the physical sex and body parts. That is more biology and

:48:24.:48:31.

science. We get those lessons. The science curriculum will cover a lot

:48:32.:48:35.

of the biology aspects. Reproduction. PSHE is years seven,

:48:36.:48:44.

two-year ten. Those lessons are built into the curriculum. Covering

:48:45.:48:50.

age-appropriate material. That will come in in year seven, lessons on

:48:51.:48:54.

body parts, how to have healthy relationships. As they progress, by

:48:55.:49:02.

the time we get two-year ten, we're looking at questions about consent,

:49:03.:49:08.

the forms of consent. Young people are aware of the dangers, also able

:49:09.:49:11.

to make the right choices for themselves. Some people, some adults

:49:12.:49:19.

think if you teach your age group about sex and relationships, it will

:49:20.:49:22.

encourage you to have sex at an earlier age. What would you say

:49:23.:49:28.

about that? I disagree, if we're not getting the information in a

:49:29.:49:32.

controlled environment, with your friends, you will be forced to go

:49:33.:49:37.

online, there are no filters, you could come across the wrong

:49:38.:49:42.

information. That could cause you to want to do these things even more,

:49:43.:49:46.

rather than learning from a teacher and professional, taught to teach us

:49:47.:49:54.

students. Some of these are out there questions, but you were pretty

:49:55.:49:58.

honest, which is so helpful. Have you been taught how to put a condom

:49:59.:50:06.

on? No. No. Is that part of the lesson. The reason I am mentioning

:50:07.:50:12.

that. Mike got in touch, saying I would rather my kids learned sign

:50:13.:50:17.

language or first aid, then how to put a condom on? That is another

:50:18.:50:22.

discussion about the services schools her. We used to have access

:50:23.:50:27.

to nurses on a regular basis, coming into supporters, we're sharing

:50:28.:50:33.

information. Showing students the dos and don'ts. A lot to do with

:50:34.:50:40.

teacher expertise and training. You have done, but you don't do now.

:50:41.:50:48.

Sorry I interrupted, people saying having sex education leads to

:50:49.:50:51.

throwing into is an earlier age. When it should be 16. Not

:50:52.:50:57.

necessarily, it gives you the confidence, if you do want to enter

:50:58.:51:00.

a relationship with someone, at least you know the dos and don'ts.

:51:01.:51:05.

If you are in an unhealthy relationship, at least you know

:51:06.:51:10.

that. I can see the signs. It equips you, when you do get into a

:51:11.:51:13.

relationship later on in your life, you know what not to do and what to

:51:14.:51:21.

do. Let me bring in Sarah Champion, and Rebecca Jennings. You run sex

:51:22.:51:26.

education classes, and you would like basic sex education for

:51:27.:51:29.

five-year-olds. Some people would freak out. What I want is

:51:30.:51:36.

relationship education for five-year-olds. They don't need to

:51:37.:51:41.

know the biology of sex. They need to know about respecting themselves

:51:42.:51:47.

and other people. The NSPCC does a great campaign about what is in your

:51:48.:51:52.

pants is private. I have been into primary schools, where there are

:51:53.:51:57.

teachers like Rebecca, little children understand with kissing,

:51:58.:52:00.

there is appropriate kissing and inappropriate kissing. Why does a

:52:01.:52:05.

five-year-old need to know that? Sadly, because the level of child

:52:06.:52:09.

abuse going on in this country is at epidemic levels. What we ought to be

:52:10.:52:13.

doing is preventing it from happening, rather than freaking out

:52:14.:52:21.

after a child has been abused. This is another former first aid. How we

:52:22.:52:24.

protect children. Interestingly, what we find internationally and in

:52:25.:52:29.

this country, when children have good relationship education they

:52:30.:52:34.

have sex later, teenage pregnancy drops down. This is a form of

:52:35.:52:38.

protection all children need. It is about keeping children safe. In

:52:39.:52:43.

terms of a five-year-old learning about sex education, that is not the

:52:44.:52:49.

case. Saying that, young girls at the age of seven starting

:52:50.:52:53.

menstruation. Going through changes. Would you teach primary school

:52:54.:53:02.

children of that yes, in small groups. We have fun with it open and

:53:03.:53:07.

honest. Some girls aged seven starting period. Year three. I would

:53:08.:53:16.

not personally do that with a whole class. Nurture groups, girls

:53:17.:53:20.

starting periods, explaining what is happening. It is OK, a natural

:53:21.:53:25.

thing. It is very young, of course. Giving them the right information.

:53:26.:53:32.

We need to be mindful, if we don't teach the children they will find

:53:33.:53:35.

out themselves. If your child has an iPad, a smartphone they can get onto

:53:36.:53:42.

the Internet. By age 14, 95% of children have seen porn. Do you want

:53:43.:53:47.

children to understand that is a fantasy, and have a good basis. That

:53:48.:53:55.

should come from the mum and dad. I am a parent of a 12-year-old. Over

:53:56.:54:00.

Christmas, very difficult to talk to my son about sexual relationships.

:54:01.:54:04.

I'm hoping that school will pick up on that. I feel comfortable talking

:54:05.:54:09.

to my students about it. Why not two-year reign 12-year-old? The

:54:10.:54:14.

relationship is very different. I gave him a book to read. I am going

:54:15.:54:19.

to talk to them about changes. He school is doing a fantastic job. If

:54:20.:54:28.

parents are not talking to children, schools are not talking to children,

:54:29.:54:32.

this is a reality of the world young people are living in. They are

:54:33.:54:34.

learning, from each other, the Internet. There are no filters, as

:54:35.:54:43.

we said. That is a concern. It has to be like a partnership between

:54:44.:54:47.

parents and teachers and the school. On educating us about sex and

:54:48.:54:52.

relationships. Maybe from our parents we could get the fake side

:54:53.:54:56.

of things, how they have done it. Have you had conversations with your

:54:57.:55:01.

parents, how your faith influences whether you get involved in a

:55:02.:55:05.

relationship? Most definitely. What is your faith, and what your parents

:55:06.:55:12.

say? I'm a Christian, they teach me things like no sex before marriage.

:55:13.:55:16.

They also teach me about diversity, the world, different sexualities was

:55:17.:55:23.

I remember my dad and I, I could not sleep, he put on a DVD of our babies

:55:24.:55:29.

are made. We had a fun conversation with gingerbread biscuits and tomato

:55:30.:55:37.

sauce. Did it make you fall asleep? Frank and open discussions. We spend

:55:38.:55:42.

our time at home and at school. Which schools, with compulsory sex

:55:43.:55:53.

education, and which are not known why is that enough is enough? Only

:55:54.:55:57.

35% of schools where it is compulsory. State maintained

:55:58.:56:01.

schools. It may well be the rest are doing a fantastic job, but when

:56:02.:56:04.

Ofsted goes in and measures the quality of the education, a lot of

:56:05.:56:09.

schools are failing on that. The other stat two thirds of child abuse

:56:10.:56:15.

happened in the extended family. Just leaving it to the family, they

:56:16.:56:21.

may be fantastic, but it is running a risk. When I was talking to young

:56:22.:56:25.

people, they say what is good about doing it in a class environment

:56:26.:56:29.

everybody is at the same level. Myth busting amongst themselves. One of

:56:30.:56:33.

the things I'm concerned about. Giving children resources; fatty

:56:34.:56:40.

have them finding themselves. If we were having this conversation, and

:56:41.:56:43.

they did on the radio. It would have been through the prism of teenage

:56:44.:56:46.

pregnancies. It is reducing in this country. Now we're talking about

:56:47.:56:52.

keeping children safe as a reason for sex education lessons. Because

:56:53.:56:55.

of child sexual abuse, violence and relationships. Teenagers are in

:56:56.:57:01.

relationships where one of the partnerships is being violent of the

:57:02.:57:05.

other. Sometimes teenagers don't know that that is wrong. The saddest

:57:06.:57:14.

thing for me, the Barnardos survey is showing young people are crying

:57:15.:57:17.

out for this help. We have the youth Parliament, one of the things

:57:18.:57:21.

they've asking for is statutory sexual education. Young people are

:57:22.:57:25.

baking for advice and support. If you step away from that, you won't

:57:26.:57:33.

really failing them. Do you agree? Completely agree. A colleague I

:57:34.:57:36.

spoke to this morning talked about the importance of parenting classes

:57:37.:57:41.

for young people. These are the key things we are equipping young people

:57:42.:57:45.

to learn how to read and write, that is key, not necessarily the

:57:46.:57:49.

functioning reality of the world they are going to grow up in. They

:57:50.:57:53.

will be involved in relationships, but we're not having those

:57:54.:57:59.

conversations with them. It is key it is brought into the curriculum,

:58:00.:58:03.

and schools are tackling it. For any parent nervous about the kind of

:58:04.:58:06.

conversation we are having now, what would you say? Just to be open and

:58:07.:58:13.

honest. Seek advice from schools, school governors, nurses, somebody

:58:14.:58:16.

there to support the conversation. It has to be part of the whole

:58:17.:58:21.

school approach. Something embrace. That is taught in a fun way. That

:58:22.:58:27.

music means the programme is over. We have had a really good discussion

:58:28.:58:31.

I appreciate your time, thank you for coming on the programme.

:58:32.:58:34.