Browse content similar to 25/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This morning, in an exclusive interview a mum who was at high risk | :00:00. | :00:14. | |
of being murdered by her abusive ex-husband tells this programme | :00:15. | :00:16. | |
a social worker disclosed the location of her secret | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
The woman was subjected to violent revenge attacks as a result. | :00:19. | :00:27. | |
He said it was impossible to safeguard us and keep our address | :00:28. | :00:36. | |
safe and he said losing your life is not worth seeking justice and he | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
said ultimately that's going to happen. | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
We'll bring you that full interview at 9.15am. | :00:42. | :00:42. | |
Also on the programme, "I swear to tell the post truth, | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
the alternative truth and nothing like the truth" - that's how | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
satirical magazine Private Eye mocks Donald Trump's | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
Overnight there have been more clashes between Trump's spokesman | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
Look Jeff, I've asked and answered this question twice. He believes | :00:54. | :01:05. | |
what he believes based on the information he has provided. | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
REPORTER: What does that mean for democracy. If he does believe that, | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
what does it mean for democracy? I've answered your question. | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
So how will the media and Democrats carry on trying | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
And a North Korean diplomat who defected last year | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
from its London embassy claims its leader Kim Jong-un | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
would be prepared to attack Los Angeles with nuclear weapons | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
if his survival in power depended on it. | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
Kim Jong-un, I think, will press the button of this dangerous, you know, | :01:36. | :01:51. | |
the weapons when he thinks that his rule and his time is threatened. | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
As always we'll bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories | :01:57. | :02:12. | |
Later we'll be covering a story which the govt has been accused | :02:13. | :02:23. | |
Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged | :02:24. | :02:39. | |
Our top story today, President Trump says he has a "big | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
day" planned on national security today which will include | :02:44. | :02:45. | |
an announcement on building a wall on the US border with Mexico. | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
Our correspondent in Washington, David Willis, has more. | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
We're going to have our borders nice and strong. | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
It was the soundtrack to Donald Trump's unorthodox | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
campaign for president, a call to build a wall | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
along America's southern border with Mexico. | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
Now he seems set to press ahead with measures he believes are vital | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
to stemming the illegal flow of immigrants into | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
The president, on his Twitter account, said simply, | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
"Big day planned on national security tomorrow. | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
Among many other things, we will build the wall." | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
He's about to make Mexico pay for it, what's more, | :03:26. | :03:27. | |
although the Mexican government has refused to do so. | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
Later in the week, to round off a busy start to his presidency, | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
Mr Trump is expected to sign executive orders closing America's | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
borders to refugees, and limiting access to citizens | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
from seven African and Middle Eastern countries - | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
countries the administration believes export terrorism. | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
They are mainly Muslim countries, but the mantra of the Trump | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
A country that traditionally has opened its doors | :03:50. | :03:57. | |
to immigrants is about to head in the opposite direction. | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
President Trump has also re-ignited a major environmental dispute | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
He's used executive orders to sign into action moves to re-launch | :04:07. | :04:15. | |
projects to build controversial oil pipelines in North | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
Protests against the plans have already begun with demonstrations | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
The President has also reportedly banned staff at America's | :04:24. | :04:32. | |
Environmental Protection Agency from posting on social media. | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
While a series of tweets on climate change from the twitter account | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
of the Badlands National Park in South Dakota have been deleted. | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
Meanwhile, the new administration's war of words with the US media shows | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
The relationship is not getting any better? We have seen the spats | :04:45. | :05:01. | |
overnight in the White House briefing room. President Trump has | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
been accused of spending a lot of time on issues which are non core | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
issues. We had the row with the alternative facts about the size of | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
the inauguration. Now he's repeating the claims that he would have won | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
the popular vote if it wasn't for three to five million illegal votes | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
that he said were placed. The media says there is no basis for this, but | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
he said that this is a, his spokesperson says this is a belief | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
he maintains. Now, obviously Trump won with the electoral college | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
votes, but Hillary Clinton got almost three million more votes than | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
he did. Now, he is saying the reason she got the extra votes was because | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
three and five million people voted illegally. The New York Times is | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
never a friend of Donald Trump said this is a lie. He's saying this is | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
really bothering the president because he feels there is all the | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
stories that are undermining his presidency. OK, thank you. We're | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
speaking to a representative of the New York Times after 10am. Thank you | :06:01. | :06:01. | |
very much, Keith. Joanna is in the BBC | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
Newsroom with a summary MPs have increased pressure | :06:05. | :06:06. | |
on Theresa May to set out her negotiating position | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
on Brexit in a White Paper to be It follow yesterday's | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
Supreme Court judgment which ruled that the Prime Minister | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
must give parliament a vote before triggering Article 50, the formal | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
process for leaving the EU. It's thought a Brexit Bill could be | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
introduced as early as tomorrow. Here's our political | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
correspondent Tom Bateman. After the judges ruled only | :06:37. | :06:37. | |
Parliament can start Brexit, today a warning for MPs - | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
don't try to derail the plan. The Supreme Court judgement means | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
a Bill on triggering Article 50, the start of Britain's exit process, | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
must be put before MPs and Lords. The Government says legislation | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
paving the way for Brexit That'll be voted on by both | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
Houses of Parliament. Theresa May wants Article 50 | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
triggered by the end of March. Then Britain has two | :07:01. | :07:02. | |
years to leave the EU. The point of no return was passed | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
on 23rd June last year. Labour say they won't block Article | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
50, but want to amend the Bill to give MPs more control | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
of the process. If necessary, there will be | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
hand-to-hand combat on this. We need to make sure that we get | :07:20. | :07:21. | |
the best deal on behalf of the whole country and she can't say she acts | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
on behalf of the whole country. Theresa May also faces opposition | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
from some of her own MPs who want a formal exit document to be | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
debated, but for now at least, ministers believe they are on track | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
to get Brexit triggered A mother of two on the run | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
from her violent ex-husband has told this programme how a social worker | :07:39. | :07:53. | |
disclosed the location of her safe house twice, | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
leading to a vicious revenge attack Ivy, which is not her real name, | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
was considered by police to be She told Victoria she was let down | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
by nearly every agency supposed In the end police advised her | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
to drop the investigation into her ex as they couldn't | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
guarantee her safety. You can hear Victoria's interview at | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
9.15am. Grammar school headteachers | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
in England have warned that they may ask parents for hundreds of pounds | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
a year to cope with funding cuts. The Grammar School Heads Association | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
says proposed changes to school funding will see a majority | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
of them lose money. A number of Conservative MPs | :08:33. | :08:34. | |
are urging the government But the Department for Education | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
said it was ending a postcode Women who have had a third child due | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
to being raped will now have to prove what happened to avoid | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
losing money through new tax From April, tax credits will be | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
limited to a family's The Government published | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
a new so-called "rape clause" on Friday exempting women whose | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
third or subsequent child was born The move has been | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
described by campaigners The Government says it was | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
"important to have an exception Women are experiencing widespread | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
discrimination when it comes to dress codes at work, | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
according to a parliamentary report. MPs heard from hundreds of women | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
who reported that the codes They began an inquiry | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
after a receptionist was sent home A delayed upgrade to the radio | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
system, used by the emergency services in England, | :09:25. | :09:35. | |
Scotland and Wales, may end up costing taxpayers | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
?475 million a year. MPs on the Public Accounts Committee | :09:40. | :09:41. | |
say the planned new system isn't used by any other country and needs | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
to be properly tested. The service, which will use 4G | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
and EE, was supposed to be ready last year but won't be | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
available until 2019. At the moment, at the time | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
we had our hearing, there was no deal struck, | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
and there still is not with Transport for London | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
about the London Underground, and there are still question marks | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
about other undergrounds If it doesn't work underground, | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
then it's a real risk to both people and our emergency services | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
who really need to contact each other in real time in case | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
of emergencies such as 7/7. An RNLI lifeboat station | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
in Yorkshire has found itself with an unexpected new crew member - | :10:16. | :10:17. | |
a fox named Basil. Basil befriended the RNLI team | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
after becoming a regular They say he's not yet been on any | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
actual rescues but as you can see, he could well be handling | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
the station's media inquiries given his obvious fondness | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
for the TV cameras! That's a summary of | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
the latest BBC News. Do get in touch with us | :10:37. | :10:38. | |
throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE, | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
and if you text, you will be charged Let's get some sport with Reshmin | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
at the BBC Sport Centre. The British Number One is out | :10:49. | :11:00. | |
of the Australian Open. She was the only Brit | :11:01. | :11:10. | |
left in the competition, but Konta was simply outplayed | :11:11. | :11:12. | |
in her quarter final match. With the six-time | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
champion Serena Williams. Konta had been on a nine-match | :11:16. | :11:16. | |
winning streak but came up short in her first meeting | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
with the 22-time She lost it in straight | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
sets 6-2, 6-3. They were out on court | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
for just over an hour. So Williams is now on the hunt | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
for a 23rd title and what would be Tough for Konta, of course, | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
but she has plenty to be proud of. She hadn't even dropped | :11:31. | :11:38. | |
a set all tournament. Who thinks the future at Manchester | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
United looks bright? When Sir Alex Ferguson speaks, | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
the footballing world stands to attention | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
and the former manager and United legend has given | :11:52. | :11:53. | |
Jose Mourinho the thumbs up. The Portuguese has been in charge | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
at United for eight months, but the club currently trail leaders | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
Chelsea by 14 points Sir Alex though, believes his | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
old club are unlucky They haven't lost in the League | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
for three months and the key to that, thinks the Scotsman, | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
is Mourinho keeping And England's women were in action | :12:14. | :12:15. | |
in Spain last night. The Lionesses played | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
the second of their two Norway ended their ten match | :12:25. | :12:26. | |
unbeaten run on Sunday and they were held to a nil-nil draw | :12:27. | :12:36. | |
with Sweden last night in Murcia. And this is who they have | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
to thank for the scoreline - goalkeeper Siobhan Chamberlain, | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
who saved a second half penalty. The next step in England's | :12:43. | :12:44. | |
preparation for the European Championship this summer | :12:45. | :12:46. | |
is the She Believes Cup, History has been made in the snow? | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
Sweden. Yes. | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
History indeed - the first successful double | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
The Double Backflip has earned a reputation as the Holy Grail - | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
and Sweden's Daniel Bodin is the one who pulled it off. | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
He's been working on this for two years and all his hard | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
Wow, that's impressive. That's it from me. I will have more later on. | :13:17. | :13:27. | |
Good morning. Welcome to the programme. | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
A mum of two on the run from her violent ex-husband has told | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
this programme how a social worker disclosed the location | :13:34. | :13:35. | |
of her safe house - twice - leading to vicious revenge attacks | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
Ivy, which is not her real name, was considered by police to be | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
She was placed in secret, emergency accommodation with her children. | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
In our exclusive interview, she tells us she was let down | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
by nearly every agency supposed to be protecting her when she fled | :13:53. | :13:54. | |
Eventually she and her children were relocated to a different | :13:55. | :14:05. | |
part of the UK, given new identities and forced to cut off all ties | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
In the end, police advised her to drop the investigation into her ex, | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
because they couldn't guarantee her safety, | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
saying "neither her life, nor her children's lives, | :14:16. | :14:16. | |
were worth losing in the pursuit of justice". | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
This interview is the first time Ivy has ever talked publicly | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
Just to let you know, some of the details she describes | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
are distressing, so if you have children around, you may not | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
Ivy begins by describing how the physical and sexual abuse | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
perpetrated by her husband, and other men he introduced | :14:40. | :14:41. | |
It started off with sexual violence, so raping, and then progressed | :14:42. | :14:51. | |
from there to physical violence, which started out as | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
And then slowly progressed from there. | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
There were weapons involved, in terms of a knife. | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
Sticking my head under water until I was unconscious. | :15:05. | :15:13. | |
And then, later on, he involved other men, | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
which obviously included raping by other men. | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
So he allowed other men to rape you as well? | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
Do you have any idea how many times you were raped | :15:25. | :15:38. | |
It was on a weekly basis, and sometimes multiple | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
times during the week, so I have really no idea. | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
What threats did he make to you to stop you going to the police? | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
Well, once we had children, it was threats against the children, | :15:58. | :15:59. | |
where he said he would harm the children if I wasn't complicit | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
And that was particularly when he involved the other men. | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
He constantly told me that nobody would believe me. | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
And he also threatened that if I did go, that I would be the one | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
You know, when you've been told that for so many years, | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
What impact did all this have on you? | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
I now suffer with complex post-traumatic stress disorder. | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
I find it very hard to trust anybody. | :16:37. | :16:45. | |
Eventually you did go to the police after encouragement from others. | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
You spent an hour or so initially talking to an officer, | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
a police officer, describing what you had endured | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
After I had finished giving him my report, | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
he sat back in his chair and said to me very bluntly that | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
His words were, things like this don't happen in our green, | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
leafy area, and anyway, you've derived sexual gratification | :17:12. | :17:13. | |
I left feeling completely degraded and humiliated, | :17:14. | :17:29. | |
and regretted having followed the advice to go | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
Eventually, the authorities realised you were at risk | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
of very serious harm, and your children, and they moved | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
you to emergency accommodation, so-called safe accommodation. | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
But the social worker involved made a monumental error. | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
She disclosed our address to my ex-husband. | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
She claimed it was his parental right to know where his | :17:57. | :17:58. | |
And what was the result of the social worker | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
He found us at that address, and I was assaulted again by him. | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
And, astonishingly, this happened a second time with the same social | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
worker after you'd been moved again to safe accommodation. | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
Yeah, yeah, she just did exactly the same as soon as we'd been | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
She disclosed where we'd been living. | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
By that time, we'd also changed all our mobile numbers. | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
She gave him our new numbers, and for the same reasoning. | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
Even though she knew he'd carried out this revenge attack on you? | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
Yeah, she said it was his parental right to know | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
Do you know if that social worker has been disciplined or even | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
Obviously, when the case had finalised, an internal review | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
was carried out and social services acknowledged the | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
We were told we would not find out what happened | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
to the social worker, as that breached her | :19:00. | :19:01. | |
confidentiality, her privacy rights, so I don't know | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
Even though she'd breached your privacy rights? | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
I think they did give you a written apology and a small | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
amount of compensation, is that right? | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
Yes, they obviously wrote and confirmed all the failings | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
in the case, and voluntarily offered us a small financial settlement | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
as a way of acknowledging their failings in the case. | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
What do you think about what she did? | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
When you report something like this and agencies become involved, | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
You trust them to know they are doing the right thing, | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
and that they are going to be there to protect you, as the victim, | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
which is what they all advertise they are going to do. | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
And meanwhile, this is somebody we put our trust in, | :19:49. | :19:50. | |
and yet she completely breached our trust, which doesn't | :19:51. | :19:52. | |
help when you're working with other agencies, | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
because you just lose trust in everybody. | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
It's not just the social worker you lose trust in, | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
All the professionals who are working with you. | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
In the meantime, over a period of months in 2014, | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
you were dealt with by 18 different police officers. | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
Can you give us a little bit of insight into why it was so many | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
and what effect that had on your case. | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
So, when the investigation started progressing after I had | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
reported one of the rapes, that's when they discovered, | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
obviously, my husband had involved other men. | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
And unfortunately, instead of giving it to one specialised unit to take | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
management of the case and investigate it, it was given | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
to my local police station, to the original detective who had | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
And he felt it was just impossible for him. | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
He didn't have the resources to investigate all the incidents. | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
So he decided he would only investigate the incidents that had | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
occurred within the geographical area that he covered, and the rest | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
of the incidents he farmed out to all the other areas. | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
And so it ended up that there were 18 different officers | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
And in practical terms, what effect does that have on you? | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
It was horrendous, because I then had to undergo 18 | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
I had these officers constantly phoning me | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
I had asked just to have one specific person, | :21:18. | :21:26. | |
one person appointed as a specific point of contact, | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
I asked if I could have one person doing all the video interviews, | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
I couldn't cope with having to go over the story | :21:37. | :21:44. | |
as a whole, because as much as they were investigating their own | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
individual incidents, I still had to give the overall | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
picture, and having to do that 18 times was just horrendous. | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
It just became incredibly distressing. | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
And it was so overwhelming, I think, that it led to you trying | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
I ultimately ended up standing on a motorway bridge just | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
wanting to put an end to it all because I couldn't cope. | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
Four times in three months you ended up being moved, | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
and your ex-husband was still trying to find you. | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
But the police had stopped investigating him. | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
When we moved into the new area, the inspector who was in charge | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
of our safeguarding was not happy with the way in which the case was | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
being managed in the previous force with the 18 different officers. | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
He felt it was a safeguarding risk, so he had requested that the case be | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
given to one specific unit and managed that way. | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
But they refused that, and as such he put a temporary stop | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
to all the investigations, because he said it was just | :22:48. | :22:49. | |
At that point, they had asked us to change names. | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
And he just felt that information would not be safe, | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
having to disclose it to so many different police officers. | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
He said it was impossible to safeguard us and keep our address | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
safe, and he said, losing your life is not worth seeking justice. | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
And he said, ultimately, that's going to happen. | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
That was a devastating decision to have to make. | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
Guilt that it allowed my ex-husband and the other offenders to go free, | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
therefore allowing them to potentially go on | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
And guilt, I suppose, from my own perspective. | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
It felt like I was saying, it's OK that you did what you did to me. | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
No, from the day our names changed, we were not allowed to make | :23:40. | :23:49. | |
any reference at all to our previous names. | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
I think if we did that, it would just be too easy to slip up. | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
So it took quite an adjustment, a couple of weeks, for us all to get | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
The children don't like to discuss it much with their friends. | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
When they started school they just said they transferred | :24:08. | :24:09. | |
What's the impact on your children on having new identities | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
It's been incredibly difficult for them. | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
We live in an age where all children are on social media. | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
They are not allowed to have social media accounts. | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
When they are with friends at school they have to be on constant alert | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
in case somebody is taking a photo to put it on Instagram | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
Even on themselves, the youngest walked into school one day last year | :24:35. | :24:45. | |
and said they didn't want to be alive any more. | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
So one of them has been suicidal, turned to self harming. | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
Even just being able to trust a teacher, being able | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
to trust a social worker, a police officer, incredibly | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
How do you know he's still looking for you? | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
The police have got intelligence that he's still looking for us. | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
You are constantly looking over your shoulder. | :25:16. | :25:25. | |
As much as we might feel safe in our new area, | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
when you go out of that area you are constantly searching | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
the crowds, worried, is he going to be there? | :25:31. | :25:32. | |
It's constantly hanging over your head. | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
I don't think you ever really escape that. | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
What about your family, what about your friends, | :25:43. | :25:44. | |
We had to cut off all contact with them. | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
So from the day that our names were changed, | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
So no family members, no friends, and that was very difficult, | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
because we didn't get to phone them and say goodbye. | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
And we didn't get to phone and say, this is why it's happening. | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
It was just, one day you're talking to them, | :26:10. | :26:11. | |
and the next, there's no further contact ever again. | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
So they have no idea what's happened to you? | :26:15. | :26:16. | |
That you've effectively disappeared off the face of the Earth? | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
There is a chance that your ex-husband might see this interview. | :26:20. | :26:27. | |
It's always a concern, but I think you reach a point | :26:28. | :26:38. | |
where he has controlled so much of my life, and to still allow him | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
to have control over what I do in the future, | :26:43. | :26:44. | |
you get to a point where you kind of say no. | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
I'm going to take back control over my life, | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
and not allow you to dictate what I can and can't do. | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
What do you hope to achieve by telling people what | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
It's mainly in support of the campaign that | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
Voice For Victims is running, which is trying to get | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
the government to agree to a victim's law. | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
At the moment, the government are happy that there | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
And they seem to believe that's working, which it's not. | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
There are plenty of cases like mine, where victims have been | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
failed when they enter into the criminal justice system. | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
So it's trying to raise awareness, highlight the failings, | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
and try to get something concrete put down. | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
So if failings like this happen, we can legally challenge them. | :27:34. | :27:35. | |
Almost everything that could have gone wrong | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
You have been failed multiple times by the criminal justice system. | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
Yeah, there were failings across all agencies. | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
It's awful to say that somebody can't seek justice, | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
and we're not talking about 20 or 30 years ago, we are talking about now. | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
And not to be able to seek justice because the criminal justice | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
system can't protect you, or provide adequate safeguarding, | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
is not acceptable in today's day and age, and it just | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
That was Ivy speaking exclusively to us. | :28:13. | :28:24. | |
Due to her anonymity and risk to her life | :28:25. | :28:26. | |
from identifying any details, we have been unable to independently | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
Social services in Ivy's case have acknowledged that they "fell well | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
short of the expected standard", and she has received an apology | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
The British Association of Social Workers also told | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
us incidents like this "should never happen". | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
Ivy is now involved in police training programmes, | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
and later in the programme we'll hear from some people who've | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
MSAs, this is a heartbreaking story. What an amazing woman. -- Ehmer | :28:57. | :29:12. | |
says. Samantha says the story is disgusting. The authorities behind | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
it should be ashamed. Another tweet says, social workers are leaving the | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
profession in droves. This will add to it. Sally says, this is shocking. | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
I thought we had come further than this. I would be interested to hear | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
from you, if you have been in a safe location, at a safe address, and | :29:32. | :29:38. | |
inadvertently or otherwise your address has been disclosed to | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
somebody who was threatening you. Because on Twitter somebody has | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
said, this happens regularly. Do let me know if you have got personal | :29:47. | :29:48. | |
experience of this. Still to come, we've an exclusive | :29:49. | :29:49. | |
interview with a North Korean diplomat who defected last year | :29:50. | :29:51. | |
from its London embassy - he thinks its leader Kim Jong-un | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
would be prepared to attack Los Angeles with nuclear | :29:55. | :29:56. | |
weapons, if his survival And it's traditionally been thought | :29:57. | :29:58. | |
that dogs are more intelligent than cats but new research calls | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
that into question. This is very controversial research | :30:05. | :30:20. | |
and you are responding. Samantha says, everyone who owns a cat | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
already thinks they are more intelligent than dogs. I have six | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
and they are out to do the dog every time. Stewart says cats are more | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
intelligent than some people. Trevor agrees cats are some asthma more | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
intelligent. Their independence prevents us from exploiting the | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
fact. The dogs are more fun. We will talk to the researchers behind the | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
tests which suggest cats are as good as dogs when it comes to memory | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
tests. Here's Joanna in the BBC newsroom | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
with a summary of today's news. President Trump is expected to sign | :30:55. | :31:08. | |
several executive orders relating to immigration and security over the | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
next few days. It comes as senior Republicans call on Mr Trump to drop | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
his claim that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the presidential | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
election. Helping rival Hillary Clinton win the popular vote. | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
Pressure is growing on Theresa May to set out her negotiating position | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
on Brexit in a formal document known as a White Paper which would be put | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
It follow yesterday's Supreme Court judgment, | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
which ruled that the Prime Minister must give Parliament a vote before | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
triggering Article 50, the formal process for leaving the EU. | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
It's thought a Brexit Bill could be introduced as early as tomorrow. | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
Grammar school headteachers in England have warned that they may | :31:48. | :31:49. | |
ask parents for hundreds of pounds a year to cope with funding cuts. | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
The Grammar School Heads Association says proposed changes to school | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
funding will see a majority of them lose money. | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
A number of Conservative MPs are urging the Government | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
But the Department for Education says it's ending a postcode | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
Women who have a third child after being raped will now have | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
to prove what happened to avoid losing money through new tax | :32:12. | :32:13. | |
From April, tax credits will be limited to a family's | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
The Government published a new so-called "rape clause" | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
on Friday exempting women whose third or subsequent child was born | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
The move has been described by campaigners | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
The Government says it was "important to have an exception | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
Women are experiencing discrimination when it comes | :32:36. | :32:43. | |
to dress codes at work, according to a parliamentary report. | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
MPs heard from hundreds of women who reported that the codes | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
They began an inquiry after a receptionist was sent home | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
A mother of two on the run from her violent ex-husband told this | :32:53. | :33:04. | |
programme how a social worker disclosed the location of her safe | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
house twice resulting in two vicious revenge attacks. Ivy, not her real | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
name, was considered by police to be at high risk of being murdered. In | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
the end the police advised her to drop the investigation into her | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
husband as they couldn't guarantee her safety. | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
Crystal says, "I couldn't get a restraining order against my abusive | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
ex because my solicitor said it would give my husband the right to | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
see our children unsupervised." . This viewer says, "This case is a | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
disgrace." The British number one Johanna Konta | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
is out of the Australian Open, after losing her quarter final match | :33:50. | :33:58. | |
with the six-time Konta had been on a nine-match | :33:59. | :34:00. | |
winning streak, but came up short in her first meeting | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
with the 22-time She lost it in straight sets 6-2, | :34:05. | :34:05. | |
6-3 after just over Joe Root has been declared fit | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
to play in England's first Twenty20 He sat out England's five-run win | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
in the final one-day But bowler David Willey has been | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
ruled out with a shoulder injury. Sir Alex Ferguson has given | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
the Manchester United manager Despite being sixth in the table, | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
United are on a three-match unbeaten run in the League | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
and Ferguson believes that's all down to the Portuguese keeping | :34:34. | :34:35. | |
control of his emotions. England's women were held | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
to a goalless draw with Sweden last Goalkeeper Siobhan Chamberlain | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
gets the credit. Next up for Mark Sampson's team | :34:43. | :34:50. | |
is the She Believes Cup in the USA. There are growing calls | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
from MPs for the Government to publish its plan for Brexit | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
in a formal policy document. So is the Prime Minister going to | :35:01. | :35:15. | |
have to climb down? I think she may Vic, here we are the day after that | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
big Supreme Court ruling and yes, Mrs May maybe facing defeat on part | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
of her Brexit game plan. Just to be clear, what MPs are pressing for and | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
we're talking not just about opposition MPs, we're talking about | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
a handful of Conservative rebels too. They're pressing for what's | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
called a White Paper. Now, what that basically means the Government would | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
have to produce a formal document setting out what Mrs May's | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
objectives and approaches to the Brexit negotiations now. Team May | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
are saying we don't want to publish that because they think it's just a | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
sort of wheeze, it is another demand by MPs. They say first of all, MPs | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
demanded Mrs May set out her objectives and she did that in a | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
speech last week and then they wanted a vote. They're getting a | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
vote and now they're wanting a White Paper, in other words they keep | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
asking for more and more so they are saying enough is enough. And there | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
is another reason too, their fear is if Mrs May has to put down in black | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
and white her game plan then that will reveal more than she wants to | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
other EU leaders. In other words it could damage how she handle the | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
negotiations and certainly that was the view of the former Tory leader | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
Michael Howard when he was asked about the idea of a White Paper this | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
morning. The risk is they set out our | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
negotiating position and that plays into the hands of the people they're | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
negotiating with. If you set out for example your priorities, the people | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
you're negotiating with say, "Right, well, we can forget about the things | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
which you say are a lesser prior because you're not really interested | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
in them." That would be a foolish thing to do. The MPs pressing for | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
the White Paper say, "Calm down. Calm down. There is nothing | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
particularly dramatic about asking for a White Paper. Pretty much every | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
Government when they've gone into EU negotiations before over other EU | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
treaties, has always produced a White Paper so that MPs know what it | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
is the Government is trying to achieve. And so, the Shadow | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
Attorney-General, when she was asked this morning said that you know, | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
Parliament has to be kept informed about the Brexit process. | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
It's very important that Parliament is now given the role that the court | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
said they must have. Whether you voted to Remain or to Leave the | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
European Union, one thing is clear - you believe in Parliamentary | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
sovereignty because that's the over Arching principle of democracy in | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
the UK and the Government must respect that now. What happens now | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
then, Norman? Has the court judgement changed anything really? | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
Well, it's changed something quite fundamental if that there will now | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
have to be a legislation to trigger this Article 50 beginning the | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
process that takes us out of the EU and the expectation is we will get | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
that Bill tomorrow. So the Government will show us the | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
legislation which we are expecting it to be a very paired down | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
minimalist Bill, just a couple of clauses which could restrict the | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
scope for MPs to table critical amendments so it is published | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
tomorrow. MPs probably begin to debate and vote on it next week. | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
That will, I expect, go on for around a fortnight, by which time | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
the Government will hope to have got the Bill through the House of | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
Commons. There is then a sort of half term week recess so everyone | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
goes away for a week. Then, the Government will try and get it | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
through the House of Lords. Now that's the much more problematic | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
business because getting legislation through the House of Lords, I mean, | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
the House of Lords are like unruly spaniels, they pretty much do what | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
they want when it comes to legislation, they can decide what | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
amendments they want to take. They can decide how long they're going to | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
talk for. They can go on forever and a day and the crucially the | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
Government doesn't have a majority in the House of Lords so it is much | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
more vulnerable to things going pear-shaped in the House of Lords. | :39:16. | :39:16. | |
Thank you very much, Norman. We will have more on the war of | :39:17. | :39:30. | |
words developing between the American press and TV networks and | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
Donald Trump. If a woman has a third child | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
conceived after she was raped, she will have to prove she was raped in | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
order to claim tax credits for that child. The plan has been described | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
as inhumane and degrading. From this April, child tax credits will be | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
limited to family's first two children. | :39:58. | :40:06. | |
However, they say the woman will need to provide evidence | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
Let's get reaction to this from Alice Irving, who was raped | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
when she was at university and now campaigns to raise awareness. | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
She has waived her right to anonymity to talk to us this | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
morning. And also with us is Debbie Abrahams, | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
a Labour MP and the party's spokesperson on welfare | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
and benefits. Alice, what do you think of this? It | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
is appalling. I can't easily put into words how difficult it is to | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
make the decision to disclose and to describe to somebody what's happened | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
to you. I would say that many women choose never to disclose. There is a | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
huge amount of shame, guilt, you know that you're unlikely to be | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
believed and I mean, the average rape victim gets that response on a | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
daily basis. Let alone if you're somebody who is trying to claim | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
welfare and we know that these people are disbelieved as well. The | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
disclosure I made was met with a poor response including to GPs which | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
are some of the people who are being proposed to assess the credibility | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
claims. When you are making a report in a official capacity, you're not | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
just saying I was raped which is hard enough to get out, to establish | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
your credibility, you are having to give them enough detail of what | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
happened for them to believe you and to go through that process and to | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
have those pointed questions asked is to relive that trauma. I was | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
raped once. The woman that are going to be dealt with under this policy | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
often will be as you've heard from, Ivy this morning, victims of | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
systematic rape over many years and just the thought of having to be | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
forced to choose between funding for your child and reliving that | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
experience with somebody you wouldn't trust if I were in their | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
position, is just, it is disgusting frankly. Debbie, can we just talk | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
through how this might work in practical terms. After consultation | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
between the Department for Work and Pensions and HMRC, they concluded | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
last Friday that they would press ahead with, "A third party evidence | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
model offering the most promising approach." So as the woman, you | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
would have to... The burden of proof would be with you. The burden of | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
proof would be on you, either a GP or a police officer or someone else. | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
Who would then assess that That's my concern, really. Someone in the DWP, | :42:39. | :42:45. | |
in a Jobcentre or health centre? Well, precisely. We don't have the | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
details of that. We absolutely oppose this proposal which is part | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
of the work, Welfare Reform and work Act, it is punishing rape victims | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
and it is punishing their children and we see it in the context of a | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
Social Security which is punitive, it is one that's based on not | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
believing you, you have to provide the evidence and even if we compare | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
for example the work capability assessment, evidence from GPs, and | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
consultants often isn't believed. So this is again, as Alice has said, it | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
is adding to the trauma and I really have concerns in terms of the | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
competence and sensitivity in which it will be handled. As I say, we see | :43:32. | :43:40. | |
similar sort of systems with DWP, they haven't worked well. After I | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
have been here I'm going to the vigil of somebody who was fit for | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
work and died after going to the Jobcentre. I mean, this is happening | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
unfortunately too often. And this, as I say, will add to the trauma of | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
rape victims. Further punishing children who will be driven into | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
poverty with all the effects, not just while they're children, but for | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
the rest of their lives. What are you going to do about it? Well, we | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
are strongly opposing it. One of the things we have coming up is a | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
campaign around child poverty and life chances. Dan Jarvis for example | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
has a Bill around that to raise the public's awareness of what's | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
happening. So this is in the context of three out of the four million | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
children who are living in poverty are in working families so the | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
Government's mantra has been about making work pay and so on and it's | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
not happening for these children and as I say, in terms of the | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
sensitivity of what's happening around rape victims, it is beyond | :44:48. | :44:49. | |
the pail. You gave us some insight into the | :44:50. | :45:03. | |
difficulties of what had happened to you with those in authority. What | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
made you want to speak out publicly and wave your right to anonymity? I | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
think the only way this is going to change is if people make the point | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
of saying this is not being dealt with well. I was scoffed at when I | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
tried to access emergency health care. If somebody doesn't say this | :45:22. | :45:29. | |
is happening, it's going to keep happening. I'm in a position which I | :45:30. | :45:36. | |
got fantastic support. I've had access to private therapy, all the | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
support I could need to make the choice to speak out. But the point | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
is, it is a choice. If I find it too hard, I can always stop. There is no | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
support for these women. They are not going to have, there is nothing | :45:52. | :45:58. | |
to say that they will have mental health support. And they are being | :45:59. | :46:06. | |
forced, effectively, to choose between possibly child poverty for | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
their children, or to go through this trauma. This is the context of | :46:10. | :46:16. | |
the mental health crisis, not just the NHS crisis. The government has | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
decided that after two children, child tax credits will be cut off. | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
What about the principle that they are trying to find a way for women | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
to receive a child after rape to be able to get tax credits for that | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
child, Bud Pierce, they are also asking per evidence? It has to be | :46:35. | :46:42. | |
looked at in the context of the real trauma that these women have been | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
through. There is no way of describing it other than as an | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
inhumane policy. Is this really a society that we want? We certainly | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
will be campaigning with crisis macro and other organisations. -- | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
crisis. This is what is happening. This is a government policy. Can I | :47:06. | :47:13. | |
add something? Even if you can prove coercion, control, rape, you cannot | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
claim that tax credit if you are still with the perpetrator under the | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
current policy because they don't want him to bed -- benefit. The | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
story we heard from Ivy talked about how hard it is to leave someone like | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
that, and how one safe it is. Not only now is in the case that we are | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
expecting somebody who wants to access funding to help raise their | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
child to prove rape, but also to put themselves in a very dangerous | :47:38. | :47:39. | |
position of going through the process of leaving an abusive | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
partner. I have some messages from our audience saying they cannot | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
believe that this is actually going to happen. One says, hard to believe | :47:49. | :47:56. | |
women have to prove they have been raved -- raped. Glenn says, | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
unbelievable. What kind of sick individual would think that is | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
acceptable? Another says, what is to stop people just saying, I was | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
raped, to claim child tax credits? This is classic. You have two | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
categories of people who I never believed. Rape complainants and | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
welfare recipients. The system is rigged against these people. You | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
would never buy choice come forward. The broad point is the whole policy | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
itself is so questionable. If a policy requires an exception like | :48:33. | :48:34. | |
this to even slightly function potentially humanely, you have to | :48:35. | :48:43. | |
really question having this childcare. Spot-on. Another says, | :48:44. | :48:56. | |
this is victimising all over again. Absolutely. Thank you both very | :48:57. | :48:57. | |
much. Coming up, we have an exclusive | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
interview with a North Korean diplomat who defected last year | :49:01. | :49:02. | |
from its London embassy. He thinks its leader Kim Jong-un | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
would be prepared to attack Los Angeles with nuclear weapons, | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
if his survival in Chip -- Kim Jong Un, I think, will | :49:14. | :49:29. | |
press the button of this dangerous weapons when he thinks that he is | :49:30. | :49:42. | |
through and his dynasty is threatened to be collapsed, yes. He | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
would destroy Los Angeles, even though the retaliation would kill | :49:48. | :49:48. | |
him? Yes. Now, the idea that dogs are more | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
intelligent than cats has been Japanese scientists say | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
cats are as good as dogs at certain memory tests, | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
suggesting they may We can speak to Dr John Bradshaw | :50:01. | :50:02. | |
from the University Veterinary Science and presenter | :50:03. | :50:18. | |
of the television programme, And David Kornhause | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
from Kyoto University in Japan. John, hello. No, it's David. Hello. | :50:22. | :50:39. | |
Tell us a little bit about this study? Yes. Well actually, I'm not | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
the researcher, I'm the communications director for the | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
University. The research team has been working with many different | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
kinds of animals over the years, including dogs and cats. And what | :50:54. | :51:01. | |
they are especially wanting to show with this new work is that cats are | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
probably a lot more intelligent than we had imagined. There has been a | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
sense that maybe dogs, because their reactions to dog owners are more | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
obvious or Mortier, are some are more intelligent as a result. But | :51:19. | :51:25. | |
actually, when the experiments are done carefully, cats are being shown | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
to have the same kind of memory that dogs have. OK. It is quite a small | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
study. It is 49 domestic cats. Can you tell us a little bit about the | :51:38. | :51:47. | |
tests they went through? The tests themselves are in specific memory | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
related to how food is being eaten by the cats. We are just showing | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
pictures of a cat falling in a bath, which doesn't show they are | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
particularly intelligent. It is about the bowls the eight from? | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
Exactly. It was shown they were able to recall specific memories on their | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
own. Not necessarily in reaction to something else. But as a fond | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
memory. OK. And that was not expected, that was surprising? Well | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
actually, over the years, re-searchers have been finding that | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
it seems that many animals that we see in a domestic context have | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
fairly similar kinds of memory and intelligence. But the way they show | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
them and the different kinds of strengths and weaknesses they have, | :52:47. | :52:48. | |
sometimes mask their actually ability. Let me bring in Doctor John | :52:49. | :52:59. | |
Bradshaw. What do you think of this, John? I think that the idea that | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
cats are as intelligent as dogs is a perfectly sensible one. We know they | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
both have very similar brains. They are much more similar to each other | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
than they are to humans. We would expect to find similar levels of | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
intelligence. But as your previous speedo was saying, maybe they | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
demonstrated differently because of the different ways they have been | :53:23. | :53:30. | |
domesticated. OK. You observe cats. What did you discover about them? | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
Cats are very tuned into places, places where they go, places where | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
they can find things they want. This new research essentially confirms | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
that in relation to food. Cats are hunters. We have kept them as | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
hunters for most of their history while they have been domesticated. | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
It is only recently we don't like it any more. Their minds are very much | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
tuned in to find in their next meal. And in particular, where did they | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
last catch a mouse? Where did they last smell a mouse that they didn't | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
catch? That maybe the right place to go back to. That is the kind of | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
thing that has been shown in this research. What do we do with this | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
research, how should we... What do we do with it? I think we respect | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
the difference. Dogs, we don't want to say cats are brighter than dogs, | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
because they can remember which bowl used to have food in. The way dogs | :54:28. | :54:37. | |
react, particularly, is to look at their owners, keep their eye on | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
their owners all the time and react to that, whereas cats are more | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
interested in the places they are in and a bit less interested in the | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
honour. Thank you both very much. Doctor John Bradshaw. And David from | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
Kyoto University. The daughter of Michael Jackson says | :54:55. | :54:56. | |
she believes her father was murdered, and says he'd often | :54:57. | :54:58. | |
"drop hints" that people Radio 1 Newsbeat's Sinead Garvan | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
can tell us more. This is her first ever in-depth | :55:02. | :55:14. | |
interview, which she gave to Rolling Stone magazine? She did indeed. It | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
is the start of her wanting to launch a career as a model and | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
aspiring actress. The whole point of it was, I will say this once and as | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
I go about my life, the information is out there. Very revealing | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
interview, very sad, quite dark at times. The biggest allegation she | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
makes is that her dad was indeed murdered. Obviously what we know is | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
he died of cardiac arrest because of an overdose of prescription drugs. | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
And then his personal physician, Doctor Conrad Murray, served two | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
years in jail for involuntary manslaughter. What she says is that | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
it is obvious, all arrows point to the fact he was murdered. It sounds | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
like a total conspiracy theory, but what -- but real fans and everybody | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
in the family know it was a real setup. She said a lot of -ish -- | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
people had issues with Michael Jackson. She said there were times | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
when her dad would say that there were serious people out there who | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
wanted to get him. She said at one point they would kill him. She then | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
goes into how this affected her mental health. And very severely, it | :56:22. | :56:29. | |
would seem, she says she tried to kill herself three times. It is | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
about self-hatred, low self-esteem. She then ended a up in a therapeutic | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
high school for most of her education. This was a place where | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
she would have her classes but also intensive therapy to deal with | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
everything that happened. She also talked about some of the happier | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
moments of her extraordinary life with her dad, who was Michael | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
Jackson? Exactly. We get a lovely insight into him. She was | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
home-schooled with her brother, Prince. That was show she would | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
spend more time with dad. -- that was so. She said, when you are at | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
home, dad would come in the middle of class and say, no more class for | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
the rest of the day. She also talks about how he taught her how to cook. | :57:15. | :57:23. | |
His speciality was fried chicken and sweet potato pie. She now lives in | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
the studio where Michael Jackson demoed eat it. It has been turned | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
into apartments on the Michael Jackson compound. You can imagine | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
how much that would be worth if it was put up for auction. She tweeted | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
last night, after the interview was published, that she wouldn't be | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
talking about anything else. If you have questions, read it. That is her | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
basically saying, I've said it all now. She also talked about how the | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
allegations she made are being looked into. It is a complicate | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
chess puzzle. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments on save | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
address is being disclosed to the authorities, putting you at risk. I | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
will read some of those in the next hour. They are quite incredible. We | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
will bring you the latest news and sport in a moment. | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
First, the weather. Good morning. It has been a foggy start for some. In | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
fact, we still have some of that fog around. It wasn't for the absolutely | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
everywhere. Some of us got off to a fine start. Weather Watchers doing | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
is proud once again this morning. As we move into Scotland, a fine start. | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
Looking further south, it was frosty in Bristol. Not a bad start | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
nonetheless. Then we ran into the fog. We had fog this morning in | :58:51. | :58:57. | |
Surrey. We still have some fog around. Part of the Midlands, the | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
South coast, north-east England as well. A lot of that will lift | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
through the course of the morning. That is because we start pulling in | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
some cloud from the near continent, and that will lift the fog. It will | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
feel cold. As we drift towards the south-west, already we have got some | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
clear skies. It is milder. Sunshine this morning across Wales. Breezy | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
towards the West. And when the fog lifts from the Vale of York, we | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
should see some sunshine as we should across Southern part of | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
northern England. For Northern England and Scotland, Cloud. A mild | :59:33. | :59:39. | |
start. Temperatures in the north-west Highlands at the moment, | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
13 Celsius. In the north-west, severe gales. Later we will see the | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
arrival of some rain. In the south, that fog continues to lift into low | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
cloud. Feeling quite cold. I've towards the West we have got higher | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
values. It is also going to be rather windy. Through this evening | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
and overnight, not so much of a problem with fog. There will be more | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
wind around. The wind is strongest in the West. We are looking at a | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
widespread frost. Some of us will see snow flurry -- snow flurries or | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
drizzle. Watch out if you're travelling early on. As we go | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
through the course of tomorrow, again we are looking at a fine day. | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
Some snow flurries, not enough to build a snowman. Are going to be | :00:24. | :00:31. | |
subjected to a wind from France. That will have an ad -- an adverse | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
effect on the cabbages. It will feel more like minus five degrees. On | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
Friday, we still have a keen south-easterly wind. Despite the | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
temperatures, it will feel cold. Towards the West, and Atlantic | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
weather front is coming our way, that will introduce rain. It will | :00:54. | :00:54. | |
bring milder conditions. This morning, a victim | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
of domestic abuse on the run from her abusive ex-husband tells | :01:00. | :01:12. | |
this programme a social worker disclosed the location | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
of her secret safe house twice. She just did exactly the same as | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
soon as we'd been move the second time. She disclosed where we had | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
been living. By that time we had also changed all our mobile numbers. | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
She gave him our new numbers and for the same reasoning. | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
We will bring you reaction shortly. Also on the programme, | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
"I swear to tell the post truth, the alternative truth and nothing | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
like the truth" - that's how satirical magazine Private Eye | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
mocks Donald Trump's Overnight there have been more | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
clashes between Trump's spokesman Exactly what evidence? Speaker Ryan | :01:47. | :01:58. | |
said there is no evidence. The national secretaries of State say | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
they don't agree with the president's assessment. What | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
evidence do you have? The president believed that for a while and based | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
on studies and information he has. A North Korean diplomat who defected | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
claims Kim Jong-un would be prepared to attack Los Angeles | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
with nuclear weapons. We've an exclusive | :02:14. | :02:15. | |
interview with him. Kim Jong-un, I think, will press the | :02:16. | :02:29. | |
button. He would destroy Los Angeles even though the retaliation would | :02:30. | :02:30. | |
kill him? Yes. Yes. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
with a summary of today's news. President Trump says he's planning | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
what he calls a "big day" on national security, | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
including an announcement on his pledge to build a wall along | :02:44. | :02:45. | |
the US border with Mexico. He's expected to sign several | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
executive orders relating to immigration and security over | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
the next few days. It comes as senior Republicans call | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
on Mr Trump to drop his claim that millions of illegal immigrants voted | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
in the presidential election, helping rival Hillary Clinton | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
win the popular vote. MPs have increased pressure | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
on Theresa May to set out her negotiating position | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
on Brexit in a White Paper to be It follow yesterday's | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
Supreme Court judgment, which ruled that the Prime Minister | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
must give Parliament a vote before triggering Article 50, the formal | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
process for leaving the EU. It's thought legislation could be | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
introduced as early as tomorrow. At least six people have been killed | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
in a terror attack on a hotel in the capital of Somalia, | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
Mogadishu. The attackers rammed | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
the gates of the Dayah Hotel with a car full of explosives, | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
before gunmen entered the hotel The hotel is popular with Somali | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
politicians and foreign dignitaries. The terrorist group Al-Shabaab says | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
it carried out the attack. A mother of two on the run | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
from her violent ex-husband has told this programme how a social worker | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
disclosed the location of her safe house twice, resulting in two | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
vicious revenge attacks. Ivy, which is not her real name, | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
was considered by police to be She told Victoria she was let down | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
by nearly every agency supposed In the end police advised her | :04:11. | :04:19. | |
to drop the investigation into her ex-husband as they couldn't | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
guarantee her safety. This is somebody we put our trust in | :04:24. | :04:37. | |
and yet she breached our trust. It's not just the social worker you lose | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
trust in. You lose trust in everybody. All the professionals who | :04:41. | :04:42. | |
are working with you. Three bodies have been | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
discovered after a house fire The bodies of a man, | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
woman and child were found in the ruins of a farm cottage | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
following a fire which is believed A delayed upgrade to the radio | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
system, used by the emergency services in England, | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
Scotland and Wales, may end up costing taxpayers | :05:01. | :05:02. | |
?475 million a year. MPs on the Public Accounts Committee | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
say the planned new system isn't used by any other country, | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
and needs to be properly tested. The service, which will use 4G | :05:09. | :05:10. | |
and EE, was supposed to be ready last year but won't be | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
available until 2019. That's a summary of | :05:14. | :05:27. | |
the latest BBC News. Simon says, "My granddaughter was | :05:28. | :05:43. | |
abused and put into a safe house. Last week she was chased for a debt | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
which her former abuser had run up. She has two children and everything | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
is weighted towards the abuse. He seems to be untouchable and gets | :05:56. | :05:56. | |
away with everything." Do get in touch with us | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
throughout the morning. We appreciate these messages from | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
you with experience of the kind of issues that we're experiencing | :06:08. | :06:08. | |
today. The British number one Johanna Konta | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
is out of the Australian Open. She was the only Brit | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
left in the competition, but was simply outplayed | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
in her quarter final match with the six-time | :06:19. | :06:20. | |
champion Serena Williams. Konta had been on a nine-match | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
winning streak but came up short in her first meeting | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
with the 22-time She lost it in straight | :06:27. | :06:27. | |
sets 6-2, 6-3. They were on court | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
for just over an hour. So Williams is now on the hunt | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
for a 23rd title and what would be Tough for Konta of course, | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
but she has plenty to be proud of. She hadn't even dropped | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
a set all tournament. Well, I think overall she played at | :06:47. | :06:55. | |
a higher level than I did today. I think she showed why she is, | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
arguably the one of the best of all times. I think I really enjoyed my | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
time out there on court against her. I was able to, well, I hope I will | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
be able to bring a lot away from it and things that I will be able to | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
reuse and hopefully I'll get a chance to play her again in other | :07:15. | :07:16. | |
matches as well. Liverpool forward Philippe Coutinho | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
has signed a new five-year The deal is worth about ?150,000 | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
a week and makes him the highest The Brazilian international has been | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
hugely influential this season and his seven weeks on the sidelines | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
with ankle ligament damage coincided with Liverpool's worst run | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
of form this season. Manager Jurgen Klopp has described | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
his play-maker as "world class". Joe Root has been declared fit | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
to play in England's first Twenty20 He sat out England's five-run win | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
in the final one-day But bowler David Willey has been | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
ruled out with a shoulder injury. Sir Alex Ferguson says that Jose | :07:51. | :08:05. | |
Mourinho is doing a great job at Manchester United. | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
The Portuguese has been in charge at United for eight months, | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
but the club currently trail leaders Chelsea by 14 points | :08:16. | :08:17. | |
Sir Alex though, believes his old club are unlucky | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
They haven't lost in the league for three months and the key | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
to that, thinks the Scotsman, is Mourinho keeping | :08:26. | :08:26. | |
I think that Jose is finding solutions now. There was a period | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
earlier in the season when he wasn't making decisions and his emotioning | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
boiled over. He is an emotional guy and now you see him now, he's calm | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
and he's in control. That's the obvious observation I am making of | :08:44. | :08:54. | |
the team now. The team is playing with great energy, determination, | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
will to win, which I think is really important. | :08:58. | :08:59. | |
England's women played the second of their two | :09:00. | :09:01. | |
Norway ended their ten-match unbeaten on Sunday and they were | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
held to a 0-0 draw with Sweden last night in Murcia. | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
Goalkeeper, Siobhan Chamberlain, kept them in it after saving | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
The next step in England's preparation for the European | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
Championship this summer is the She Believes Cup, | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
And that's all the sport. Thank you, Victoria. | :09:23. | :09:30. | |
This morning we've bought you Ivy's story. | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
She's a mum of two who was in hiding and on the run from her violent | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
ex-husband when a social worker twice disclosed the details | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
of her safe house, leading to vicious attacks. | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
Ivy, which is not her real name, was considered by police to be | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
We have had many comments from you which suggests this is not an | :09:50. | :09:58. | |
isolated case. This e-mail says, "I was in a woman's aid refuge with my | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
two children aged five and eight. And a Family Court judge ordered the | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
refuge manager to divulge the address of the house or she, the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
manager, would be held in contempt of court. The same judge then | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
ordered that I let the children return to the home. So I felt I had | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
no choice, but to return with them. The judge was later criticised by a | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
High Court judge. This was 18 years ago. But from your story this | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
morning, there is still so much work to do to keep victims of domestic | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
violence safe." Sue e-mails to say, "I would like to say that this is | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
shocking, but unfortunately I don't think it is so unusual for agencies | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
to fail victims. I'm not sure if it's because the law is not victim | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
focussed or whether it's because of individual personalities working | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
within agencies making personal judgements instead of following | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
proper procedures and using due diligence. Shame on those who failed | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
Ivy's family in a spectacular way." This e-mailer says, "It makes my | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
blood run cold as my daughter is going through something similar. | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
Having survived two strangulation attempts and beatings and knife | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
threats and an explosion in her home and much more including harm to | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
their son and friend's two boys, she finally got him out of their rented | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
accommodation in early December." Well, social services have | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
apologised for failings in Ivy's case. We played you her full | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
interview earlier. Here is an extract. It is distressing and there | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
are some details that you might not want children to hear. | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
It started off with sexual violence, so raping, and then progressed | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
from there to physical violence, which started out as | :11:46. | :11:47. | |
And then slowly progressed from there. | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
There were weapons involved, in terms of a knife. | :11:54. | :11:55. | |
Strangling me until I was unconscious. | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
And then, later on, he involved other men, | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
which obviously included raping by other men. | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
What impact did all this have on you? | :12:06. | :12:07. | |
I now suffer with complex post-traumatic stress disorder. | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
I find it very hard to trust anybody. | :12:11. | :12:22. | |
Eventually, the authorities realised you were at risk | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
of very serious harm, and your children, and they moved | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
But the social worker involved made a monumental error. | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
She disclosed our address to my ex-husband. | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
She claimed it was his parental right to know where his | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
And what was the result of the social worker | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
He found us at that address, and I was assaulted again by him. | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
And, astonishingly, this happened a second time with the same social | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
worker after you'd been moved again to safe accommodation. | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
Yeah, yeah, she just did exactly the same as soon as we'd been | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
You were dealt with by 18 different police officers. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
The original detective who had taken over the case, | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
he decided he would only investigate the incidents that had occurred | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
within the geographical area that he covered, | :13:19. | :13:20. | |
and the rest of the incidents he farmed out to all the other areas. | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
And so it ended up that there were 18 different officers | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
I ultimately ended up standing on a motorway bridge just | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
wanting to put an end to it all because I couldn't cope. | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
Your ex-husband was still trying to find you. | :13:38. | :13:39. | |
But the police had stopped investigating him. | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
When we moved into the new area, the inspector who was in charge | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
of our safeguarding, he said it was just impossible | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
And he said, losing your life is not worth seeking justice. | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
They are not allowed to have social media accounts. | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
When they are with friends at school they have to be on constant alert | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
One of them has been suicidal, turned to self harming. | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
What do you hope to achieve by telling people what | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
At the moment, the Government are happy that there | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
And they seem to believe that's working, which it's not. | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
It's awful to say that somebody can't seek justice, | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
And Ivy's words were spoken for her then. | :14:31. | :14:39. | |
Due to her levels of anonymity and the risk to her life | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
from identifying any details, we have been unable to independently | :14:44. | :14:45. | |
Watching that with us was Claire Waxman, a victim | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
of stalking for 12 years and founder of Voice 4 Victims, which gives | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
support to victims who are going through the criminal justice system. | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
And Baroness Sal Brinton, who met Ivy as part | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
She's trying to make amendments to the Victims Code | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
in the House of Lords, to make it a statutory obligation. | :15:08. | :15:15. | |
To make sure the relevant agencies do their job. Can we just talk about | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
the social worker who twice disclosed the safe address to the | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
violent ex-husband? I cannot get into the head of that social worker. | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
You are telling me this is not an isolated case. Sadly not. Obviously, | :15:32. | :15:39. | |
Ivy's cases extreme and harrowing. But I'm hearing daily from victims | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
of all crime types who come to us, where their rights have been | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
breached, where you have multiple agencies, not just social workers, | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
people within the police, the courts, disclosing sensitive and | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
personal information that rebuilds their identity or save addresses, | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
that is quite common, sadly. In this particular case, it is so obvious | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
that if the former husband comes and beats her up because he has now got | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
her address, once, if he gets the second address, he will Dudi Sela | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
thing. The social worker, and I'm only speculating, they don't see the | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
point of view of the victim. They don't seem to get it. It is | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
entrenched within the system. It is geared towards the abuser's rides. | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
They seem to be manipulated by them. They seem to push more towards their | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
side. With the victims law we want to make the system fair for | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
everybody. Sal Brinton, what did you make of what Ivy has experienced? It | :16:51. | :16:58. | |
was extreme but not unusual. There are plenty of victims I've talked to | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
who have had some of the experiences that Ivy had. Ivy's story is | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
particularly horrific. Everything seems to have gone wrong at every | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
particular stage. But for one woman, for one thing to go wrong company as | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
bad as the incident itself that actually brought her perpetrator | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
into the criminal justice system. And that is the problem. Ministers | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
keep saying the victim 's code is fine, it is there, victims have an | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
entitlement. For example, to one police contact, one number. | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
Repeatedly it doesn't happen. The real problem is there is no duty on | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
the agencies to fulfil the victims' code. That is why we have been | :17:45. | :17:52. | |
asking for a victims' law. Of course there is a duty to safeguard | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
victims. It is their job. Some of them are. Unfortunately, it is | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
patchy. That is because there is no duty on, for example, police, to | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
provide proper training at all levels for everyone who comes into | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
contact with the victims. Because it is not law. We haven't got the | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
fundamental to right. The system is flawed and disjointed. There are | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
lots of gaps. What we are pushing for it is a case companion who would | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
bridge those gaps from agency to agency on behalf of the victim. In | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
Ivy's case that would have helped to alert the issues. Make sure there is | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
one point of contact for police interviews. There are enhanced | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
entitlements for a victim such as Ivy, a vulnerable victim of sexual | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
violence. She should have had the same sex officer, she should have | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
that one officer. They should have limited it but they failed. But that | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
is just one fairing of lots of feelings because the agencies are | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
not adhering to the code. They don't understand what is within the code. | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
That is the fundamental problem. And the notion that in the end she was | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
advised to drop the case because the detective who did care and who was | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
trying to do his job properly, couldn't guarantee that all of the | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
other officers who would be involved might inadvertently disclose her | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
location again? Absolutely. We have heard evidence from the families of | :19:19. | :19:27. | |
people who have been murdered. Alice, who was on early, would not | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
be covered by the victims' code because it excludes the Department | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
for Work and Pensions and the National health service. There are | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
holes in the victim's code. In terms of your campaign, which you have | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
been running for three years, where are you up to in terms of trying to | :19:49. | :19:57. | |
make the victims' code law? Last week we got a concession. We met | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
with the ministers. The ministers were firm. They said to us that the | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
code works. We said it didn't. You are not seeing the evidence. We are | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
giving report after report. We giving you case studies. We can't | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
show of how much this code is failing. They have made a concession | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
to a 12 month time frame where they can review the code, look at making | :20:20. | :20:27. | |
agencies accountable, so that we, the victims, will continue to hold | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
the government to account on that. We have got a statement. We asked | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
for an interview with someone from the Department of Justice and they | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
gave us a statement. They recognise more needs to be done which is why | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
they have committed to strengthening victims' rights. They will set out | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
their strategy in due course. What does that mean? Nothing at the | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
moment because that is what they have been saying for the last couple | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
of years. That is less strong than the ministers said to me in the | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
chamber last week, where she said specifically they would bring | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
forward legislation to make sure the agencies fulfilled their duties if | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
the review showed that is not happening. I will hold them to | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
account. They are not seeing this as a priority. They are being told by | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
officers that that code is working fine. We have heard all of the | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
victims' agencies of terrible failings. Putting victims at high | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
risk and creating more trauma. They need to take action now. We have to | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
keep pushing them. Thank you for coming in. Claire Waxman and | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
Baroness Sal Brinton. We will continue to follow their progress. | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
It's not even been a week since President Donald Trump's | :21:41. | :21:42. | |
inauguration, and there's a war of words developing with | :21:43. | :21:44. | |
A man at the heart of the row is President Trump's press | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
He's repeatedly accused the mainstream media of lying | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
about how many people had turned out for Friday's inauguration, | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
despite images which seemed to show otherwise. | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
This gave rise to the phrase "alternative facts", as one | :22:02. | :22:03. | |
of his colleagues, KellyAnne Conway, defended him. | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
It's a phrase we're going to be hearing a lot | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
The White House Chief of Staff, Reince Priebus, went further, | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
accusing parts of the American media of trying to "de-legitimise" | :22:16. | :22:17. | |
So will the world of alternative facts harm his presidency, | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
or will the traditional media be the losers, | :22:25. | :22:26. | |
as Trump continues his direct connection with his voters | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
Here's some of what happened in a press conference last night | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
Does the president believe that millions voted illegally in this | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
election and what evidence do you have of widespread voter fraud | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
I think he stated his concerns voter fraud and people voting illegally | :22:45. | :22:52. | |
during the campaign and he continues to maintain that belief based | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
on studies and evidence that people presented to him. | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
Speaker Ryan said there is no evidence. | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
The National Association of Secretaries of State say | :23:04. | :23:05. | |
that they don't agree with the president's assessment. | :23:06. | :23:07. | |
As I said, I think the president has believed that for | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
He again asserted that he would have won the popular vote | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
if it weren't for three to five million illegal votes. | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
Did you feel the need to correct him? | :23:20. | :23:21. | |
Does it trouble you that he continues to hold a belief like this | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
Look, I've already commented on that. | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
I have seen no evidence to that effect and I've made | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
The president of the United States is claiming that 3.5 million | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
people voted illegally, that shakes confidence | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
He needs to disclose why he believes that are. | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
It is most inappropriate thing for the president | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
Photographs of the inaugural proceedings were intentionally | :23:49. | :23:57. | |
framed in a way in one particular tweet to minimise the enormous | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
support that it gathered on the national mall. | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
We know that 420,000 people used the DC Metro Public Transit | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
yesterday which is actually compares to 317,000 that used it for | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration | :24:14. | :24:21. | |
period both in person and around the globe. | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
You're saying it is a falsehood and they're giving shaken Spicer, | :24:25. | :24:26. | |
our press secretary gave alternatives facts to that, | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
Alternative facts for the five facts he uttered. | :24:29. | :24:40. | |
Look alternative facts are not facts. | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
Chuck, do you think it's a fact or not that millions of people have | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
lost their plans or health insurance and their doctors | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
Do you think it is a fact that everything we heard from these women | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
yesterday happeneded on the watch of Barack Obama? | :24:55. | :24:56. | |
Donald Trump has been here more about eight hours. | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
Is it your intention to always tell the truth from that podium | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
and will you pledge to never glowingingly say that's not factual? | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
It is an honour to do this and yes, I believe that we have to be honest | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts. | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
Let's talk now to Thomas Friedman, New York Times columnist. | :25:19. | :25:20. | |
He says President Trump's distortion of the truth makes him | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
President Trump paid his company $94 million to run his digital campaign | :25:25. | :25:35. | |
Journalist Steve Gruber runs a Conservative talk show. | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
He's in Michigan, voted for Donald Trump and | :25:39. | :25:40. | |
he says Mr Trump will easily win a second term in 2020 | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
if the press continue to attack him unnecessarily. | :25:44. | :25:45. | |
We're also joined by Jena Friedman, a Democrat and stand-up | :25:46. | :25:47. | |
comedian who has worked on the The Daily Show. | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
Thomas Friedman, we heard Sean Spicer sing the New York Times had | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
got it wrong. How are you responding? The facts are the facts. | :25:59. | :26:07. | |
We have photos, we have the numbers. How many people turned out for | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
Obama's first inauguration, how many turned out for this. You can't say | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
the Earth revolves around the sun and you think the sun revolves | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
around the earth. Maths is maths. Two plus two never adds up to five. | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
This administration seems to have a certain proclivity for a making of | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
their own map. Eventually it will completely undermine them because | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
I've just written a new book, which is about the moment that we are in | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
right now. We are in a moment of incredible acceleration, where small | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
areas of navigation can have huge consequences. On one of the problems | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
Trump will have is, sometime in the next few months, North Korea, for | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
example, the CAA will tell the president they have developed a | :26:57. | :26:58. | |
long-range missile that can hit Los Angeles. -- the CIA. Maybe something | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
bad will go wrong. He will have to come to the American people and say, | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
look, these were the facts. And people will say, are those like the | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
fact that two plus two added up to five at the inauguration? He is | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
setting himself up to completely undermine his leadership. Steve | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
Gruber, you are shaking your head in disagreement. Let's start with this. | :27:25. | :27:33. | |
Three electoral votes to two of the Win32. Hillary Clinton's turnout for | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
his inauguration was zero. The fact that the matter is Donald Trump was | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
doing exactly what the people elected him to do, to deal with TPP, | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
the keystone pipeline, jobs and immigration. The distraction of | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
crowd size and illegal voting is all fine and well... You may be right | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
using the word distraction. But why is Sean Spicer disputing facts? I | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
was there and it looked like a million people to me. What matters | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
honestly, seriously, this is what matters in people in Michigan where | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
I am, Donald Trump will carry Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. | :28:14. | :28:24. | |
Can you imagine leaders who had endorsed Hillary Clinton are now on | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
board the Donald Trump bandwagon. If Madonna, Ashley Judd, if the media, | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
if everybody across America continue to attack Donald Trump in this way, | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
the silent majority that arose up in the middle of America, in the middle | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
class working families and home, will return Donald Trump to the | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
White House once again. I say put Michael Moore on tour. We would like | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
to see him every day and hear what he has to say. It helps Donald | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
Trump's calls every day. You not answering the question. The question | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
was, it was a lie. I think it's interesting with pundits how you | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
talk so quickly that you can kind of avoid Victoria's question. I didn't | :29:06. | :29:15. | |
avoid any questions. You chose to talk about the oil pipeline and the | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
workers. Absolutely, that is a huge issue. That is what he was elected | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
to do. Absolutely but we are talking about the facts that Sean Spicer has | :29:27. | :29:34. | |
disputed at the weekend. It was suggested they are putting forward | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
alternative facts, which we know our lives. What is your question? Why | :29:38. | :29:45. | |
are you doing that? Are you saying illegal aliens didn't vote? Of | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
course they voted. We should do an investigation of illegal voting in | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
this country. Donald Trump likes to win and run the table at everything | :29:54. | :30:04. | |
he does. Talk about alternative facts. Voter suppression where? | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
Demonstrate something. You cannot. North Carolina. Site Mac --. You | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
have no proof. That isn't the outrageous. You have no proof. Is | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
the Trump administration making claims that are false? I don't think | :30:20. | :30:27. | |
so. I was at the inauguration. It was considerably. I think all of | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
this stuff is BS. If I look at my photo, I took one of | :30:30. | :30:41. | |
the very last photos, there are no blank spots. That photo was taken an | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
hour-and-a-half before the end. I happen to agree with that. I was | :30:47. | :30:56. | |
live at the inauguration myself. Do you know what the good news is? | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
We don't have Article 50 in America and we will continue on with our | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
president Donald Trump who was elected with 57% of the electoral | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
college. What people are disputing is the fact that he is president. I | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
would like him to succeed, OK. Shut shut up for a second! I would like | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
to see him succeed because unfortunately we're all in the same | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
boat with him, but he's not going to succeed if we get into a crisis | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
where the facts are on his side, but he is so repeatedly lied that we are | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
going to not believe him when we actually need to. No one is | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
disputing his election. That's not the issue here. Clearly, you | :31:42. | :31:49. | |
supported. What does that have to do with anything? You said you'd | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
support him in a crisis. Let me bring in Brad because Brad worked... | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
My impression was that the sun was revolving around the Earth. We got | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
that point! Brad, you worked on Brand Trump. Is that the right thing | :32:09. | :32:16. | |
to do? Is it the right thing to do? There is a lot going on. I think the | :32:17. | :32:28. | |
press continues to try and push doubt and delegitimise who Donald | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
Trump is and it is important to make sure you hold the press accountable | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
and those pictures and images that were put up is false. The time | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
stamps were different. He did lose the popular vote, you guys. There is | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
still something to debate about the fact that it wasn't like a mandate. | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
He doesn't have a mandate. Just saying. As we continue to talk about | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
size, if size matters... For the Liberal Democrats is the media. If I | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
had enough money to compete against all of them as well, we probably | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
would have won the popular vote. Donald Trump has been successful for | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
18 months taking shots at the media. It worked for him. In America the | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
institutions that are least trusted or Congress and the media comes in | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
behind Congress. They are not respected and not trusted. A final | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
word from Thomas, the New York Times columnist, how are you going to play | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
this through Donald Trump's presidency? All we can do is what we | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
do and try to report the news accurately without fear or favour. | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
Do you it day in and day out and if we make mistakes, which we do, you | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
correct them. That's all you can ask of the press, but that's all you can | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
ask of a president. If people get the feeling that this is a man who | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
just makes stuff up, we will reach a crisis point where that's really | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
going to matter because we're going to do something big and hard and he | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
will need the American people to believe him. And we don't. Thank | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
you. Thank you very much all of you. Thank you for your time. Steve voted | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
for Donald Trump, Brad was working for President Trump on the | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
presidential campaign, on the Trump presidential campaign running the | :34:18. | :34:24. | |
digital side of things. Jenna who voted Democrat and Thomas, from the | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
New York Times. A young Syrian girl has written an | :34:27. | :34:43. | |
open letter to Donald Trump. She was tweeting about her life in the | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
besieged part of the city. One of her first tweets says: | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
She's in East Aleppo, and it's her last moment to either | :34:51. | :34:52. | |
live or die. She goes on to say, | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
"My dad is injured now. In another, she tells her growing | :34:57. | :34:58. | |
number of followers she's happy She shared a lot of pictures | :34:59. | :35:07. | |
of other children in Aleppo before she was evacuated in December, | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
hoping to return home one day. Bana's mother has been criticised. | :35:14. | :35:33. | |
Some Here is the little girl's letter to Mr Trump. | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
"Dear Donald Trump, my name is Bana Alabed and I am a seven | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
I lived in Syria my whole life before I left from besieged | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
I am part of the Syrian children who suffered from the Syrian war. | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
But right now, I am having a peace in my new home of Turkey. | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
In Aleppo, I was in school, but soon it was destroyed | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
I'm very sad about them and wish they were with me | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
because we would play together by right now. | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
I couldn't play in Aleppo, it was the city of death. | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
Right now in Turkey, I can go out and enjoy. | :36:13. | :36:14. | |
I can go to school although I didn't yet. | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
That is why peace is important for everyone including you. | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
However, millions of Syrian children are not like me right now | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
and suffering in different parts of Syria. | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
They're suffering because of adult people. | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
I know you will be the president of America, so can you please save | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
You must do something for the children of Syria | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
because they're like your children and deserve peace like you. | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
If you promise me you will do something for the children of Syria, | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
I'm looking forward to what you will do for the children of Syria." | :36:50. | :37:02. | |
This news just in from the Metropolitan Police. A man has been | :37:03. | :37:11. | |
arrested of suspicion of rationally aggravated malicious communications. | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
Tom Symonds is here. Fill us in. Well, we understand this is related | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
to the case of Gina Miller, the named party as the lawyers would | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
call her in the Supreme Court case relating to Brexit and now in is an | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
arrest of a 50-year-old man in Knightsbridge, related to as you say | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
the malicious communications. Malicious communications made, the | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
Met says on 6th November. That's three days after the Appeal Court | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
judgement in the Brexit case, so that's the first lower court that | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
considered this. And we understand also that it is linked to unrelated | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
comments made by the same suspect in August 2016 and also at the same | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
investigation which is a team from something called Operation Falcon | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
which specialises in tracing people online and talking to social media | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
companies that they in a similar investigation arrest add 55-year-old | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
man in Swindon in early December. Now, we know that was connected to | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
complaints made by Gina Miller. So, clearly, an investigation going on | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
into concerns about what is said about her online. Thank you. Tom | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
Symonds. A North Korean diplomat who defected | :38:21. | :38:28. | |
last year from its London embassy has told the BBC | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
he thinks its leader Kim Jong-un would be prepared to attack | :38:32. | :38:33. | |
Los Angeles with nuclear weapons, if his survival in | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
power depended on it. The high-ranking defector, | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
Thae Yong-ho, says the North Korean leader doesn't yet have | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
the capability, but is getting closer to an effective | :38:41. | :38:42. | |
nuclear arsenal. I'm sure that my relatives, | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
and my brother and sister's families by now are all sent to either remote | :38:46. | :38:57. | |
closed areas, or prison camps, you know, so that | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
really breaks my heart. If you could imagine your brother | :39:01. | :39:09. | |
shouting at you, "why Oh, that is really, you know, | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
a question which I do not like even to think about, | :39:17. | :39:35. | |
yes, but that's why I'm very much now determined to do everything | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
possible to pull down the North Korean regime, | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
to save not only my family members but the whole North Korean | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
people from slavery. Do you think you'll ever | :39:49. | :39:56. | |
see your brother again? I'm absolutely sure, | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
and this is my dream, If, when Kim Jong-un | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
gets the bomb properly, and missiles to deliver, | :40:03. | :40:12. | |
is he capable of pressing that Oh, Kim Jong-un knows quite well | :40:13. | :40:14. | |
that a nuclear weapon is the only guarantee for his rule, | :40:15. | :40:22. | |
and Kim Jong-un, I think, will press the button of this | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
dangerous, you know, the weapons, when he thinks | :40:30. | :40:43. | |
that his rule and his dynasty is threatened, you know, | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
to be collapsed. He would destroy Los | :40:50. | :41:03. | |
Angeles, even though Yes, yes, because he knew that | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
if he loses the power, then it is his last day, | :41:07. | :41:15. | |
so he may do anything, you know, even to attack | :41:16. | :41:24. | |
Los Angeles, because, you know, once the people know that | :41:25. | :41:33. | |
in any way you will be killed, That is the human | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
being's normal reaction. How do you think Kim Jong-un | :41:42. | :41:51. | |
will end his days? Is he going to die | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
peacefully in his own bed? I'm sure that the Kim Jong-un regime | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
will one day collapse That was Thae Yong-ho, | :41:57. | :42:05. | |
a North Korean diplomat who defected He said had been persuaded | :42:06. | :42:17. | |
to defect by his younger son who kept asking about the true | :42:18. | :42:27. | |
nature of life inside North Korea. So how does the secretive | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
state function? We can talk now to Jihyun Park, | :42:31. | :45:39. | |
who defected twice from North Korea. She's now living here in Britain | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
and campaigns for Human Rights She's been here watching | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
that interview with us. Good morning. You have seen what the | :45:48. | :46:00. | |
diplomat has revealed about North Korea. What do you think about what | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
he said? Firstly I would like to say to him congratulations. I totally | :46:07. | :46:22. | |
agreed with him. He said that North Korea is not a democratic country. | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
It is a slavery country. I totally agree with him. He said that he | :46:29. | :46:45. | |
watched South Korea's shows and drama and listened to South Korea | :46:46. | :46:46. | |
radio. Him and the media... Is that how you | :46:47. | :47:09. | |
would describe how you felt when you are living there, you were | :47:10. | :47:17. | |
brainwashed? Yes. I lived in North Korea. We always learned about the | :47:18. | :47:31. | |
Kim families, their histories. We always respected to him. We always | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
showed happiness to them. Even when you are experiencing salmon. You | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
witnessed members of your own family dying of starvation, but you had to | :47:43. | :47:50. | |
respect that family? Yes, I saw my family die in front of me. I just | :47:51. | :47:57. | |
hated Americans and South Korea. They did something to us. We hadn't | :47:58. | :48:06. | |
got any proof. I hated them. You eventually got out. But you ended up | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
been the victim of traffickers and were sold to someone in China. The | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
police caught you and to give back to North Korea. What was that like? | :48:16. | :48:22. | |
Many North Korean refugees escaped North Korea. In the 1990s there was | :48:23. | :48:35. | |
famine in North Korea. People only want to survive, so they escaped and | :48:36. | :48:45. | |
went to China. But the Chinese Godman never accepted the refugees. | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
The Chinese government abandoned us. -- government. I went to the Labour | :48:51. | :48:59. | |
camp for six months. What is it like working in a labour camp? When I | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
went there for the first time, we had no clothes. Are you saying you | :49:07. | :49:15. | |
were naked, or might they gave used off to where? Yes. They searched our | :49:16. | :49:29. | |
bodies. Many people hide money. You are strip-searched? Yes. They search | :49:30. | :49:48. | |
everywhere. I was very ashamed. Not only once. It happened several | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
times. After I went to the Labour camp... We hadn't got anything with | :49:56. | :50:04. | |
us. Only hands and our bare feet. What work or you do in there? Farm | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
work. -- what work were you doing there? Also, another problem is | :50:11. | :50:22. | |
there is no toilet in the Labour camp. | :50:23. | :50:37. | |
Other women worked with me. One woman was three months pregnant. The | :50:38. | :50:49. | |
North Korean government wouldn't accept this baby. | :50:50. | :51:01. | |
This man put some sand in his sock and rain to the mountain. And after, | :51:02. | :51:11. | |
she miscarried the baby. So she had to put a heavy bag on and run up and | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
down the mountain to miscarry the baby? Yes. | :51:18. | :51:33. | |
We used to run. Not what. Thank you so much for giving us and insight. I | :51:34. | :51:42. | |
know you've found some of that very difficult. I really appreciate what | :51:43. | :51:44. | |
you have told us today. Thank you. Next, plans which force women | :51:45. | :51:54. | |
to prove that a third child has been born as a result of rape, | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
in order to claim tax credits, have been described | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
as "inhumane" and "degrading". From April, Child Tax Credit will be | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
limited to a family's first two children - | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
but the government announced an exception to that for women whose | :52:12. | :52:13. | |
third or subsequent child was born However, they say the woman | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
will need to provide evidence Earlier this morning, | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
two women who have been raped, One woman who has been raped, spoke | :52:21. | :52:37. | |
earlier. They scoffed at me when I told them. | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
The first police officer I spoke to said it was sex without regrets. If | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
somebody doesn't say this is happening, it will keep happening. | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
I'm in a position which I've got fantastic support. I've had access | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
to private therapy, all the support I could possibly need to make the | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
choice to speak about this. But the point is it is a choice. If I find | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
it too hard, I can stop. If you ask me a question, I could say no. There | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
is no support for these women. There is nothing to say go through this | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
traumatising experience and we will ensure you have mental health | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
support. None of that at all. They are being forced effectively to | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
choose between possibly child poverty for their children or to go | :53:27. | :53:27. | |
through this drama. We wanted to speak to the Department | :53:28. | :53:29. | |
for Work and Pensions about this, but they turned down our request | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
for an interview, telling us it will be "delivered in the most | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
effective, compassionate way", and that they've "consulted | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
to ensure the right exceptions We can speak now to Alison Thewliss, | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
the SNP MP for Glasgow Central. She has been campaigning | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
against the so-called rape clause. Rebecca Hitchen is from | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
Rape Crisis South London. And Richard Graham is | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
Conservative MP for Gloucester and a member of the Work | :53:56. | :53:57. | |
and Pensions select committee. Mr Graham, do you back this? I think | :53:58. | :54:09. | |
the response to the consultation which I've read does allow for a | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
whole series of exceptions to the changes to child tax credit. The one | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
on people who have been raped is incredibly sensitive, | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
understandably. Members of my own family have been raped. So I know | :54:25. | :54:31. | |
this. So you do back it? I back the fact that the government is allowing | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
for rapes proved in court, but in cursive relationships in family | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
relationships as well. The difficulty is where you effectively | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
have a process to recognise where that has happened and it has less to | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
the birth of a third or subsequent child. What the government is trying | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
to do is try to find a way of doing this as sensitively as possible | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
through health care professionals, social workers or specialist | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
charities. And if there are other groups that others think could play | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
an important part in this, I think the government is still open to | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
listening. You must be talking about saving pennies, really? It's about | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
really trying to be fair to everyone, to those who are not going | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
to get tax credits if they have more than two children in the future and | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
to those paying for the system as well. So it doesn't just become an | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
easy option to say, I didn't want to have this child but my partner | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
forced me to. It's just simply a way of finding the most sensitive way of | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
recognising it. An easy option? What is the easy option? Tell me what you | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
think the easy option is? I think that is the best way for Dhekelia. | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
Otherwise you have a system where anybody might say that I was raped. | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
Do you really believe someone would say that? I don't think it is about | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
questioning people's will to do that. It is about just saying we | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
have got to have a sensitive system that is fair. Allyson Felix, is this | :56:03. | :56:11. | |
a sensitive -- sensible system? It is not sensible or fair. It is | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
traumatising women who have already gone through considerable trauma in | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
the first place. They will not be cross-examined, they will not be | :56:21. | :56:22. | |
assessed, they will simply have to bring a letter from a social worker, | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
GP or police officer? There will still have to tell that person in | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
the first place. Say you don't have a social worker, and you feel that | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
to do that would put you at risk, you will not tell a social worker | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
that your husband is raping you. Rebecca Hitchen, what is your | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
concern? I have many concerns. One of them has just been echoed. The | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
idea that women lie about rape. That is not the case. And the reality for | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
women of what this will mean is going to be incredibly difficult. | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
There will be a high risk of them being traumatised again. You | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
mentioned there will not be any assessment. From my reading their | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
Wildie. It will be that doctors or social workers have two assessed the | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
circumstances of the woman to determine whether they believe it is | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
commensurate with someone who has been raped. We have heard today | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
about personal judgments and failure of agencies that occurred time and | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
time again. That is likely to occur in these scenarios as well. What are | :57:24. | :57:33. | |
you going to do about this? The government as its -- it will, going | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
to force in April. I hope there will be an opportunity to challenge it in | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
Parliament then. The government has not done enough to speak to civil | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
service unions. To DWP staff who have to implement this, they still | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
don't know what they are expected to do as well, which is worrying if | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
you're dealing with someone sensitive circumstances. We have had | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
a number of comments from our viewers. This is appalling. I'm | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
embarrassed by this country. Whoever came up with this insensitive ruling | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
should be fired. I think that's slightly wrong. What the government | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
has done is respond to people who wrote into the government's on | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
consultation asking for ideas as to how best to implement this, | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
recognising that it was such a sensitive area, and taking it beyond | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
statutory rape and criminal cases, and recognising there are situations | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
where coerces or controlling behaviour in an intimate | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
relationship could lead to this sort of situation. I think the select | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
committee will look at this and decided we want to take further | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
evidence and look again the issue. I think it is a more sensitive | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
response than people are giving it credit for. The government are not | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
listening. They have ignored the concerns of women organisations. | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
Thank you. Thanks for coming on the programme. We are back tomorrow. Had | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
We know you understand the risks associated with your pregnancy. | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
Because I'm smaller, people think my hopes are not so great. | :59:04. | :59:07. |