26/01/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


26/01/2017

News. Victoria Derbyshire speaks to Raffaele Sollecito, who is seeking compensation after clearing his name in the Meredith Kercher murder case.


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Hello, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:00.:00:07.

As Donald Trump says he believes that torture can work to get

:00:08.:00:13.

information out of terrorism suspects, we'll be asking

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what impact his words will have across the world.

:00:16.:00:18.

We'll be speaking exclusively to Raffaele Sollecito, who,

:00:19.:00:22.

together with Amanda Knox, was wrongly imprisoned

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for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.

:00:25.:00:27.

And, the last survivor of the Dambusters raid

:00:28.:00:30.

on Germany in 1943 has never received a knighthood.

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TV presenter and RAF ambassador Carol Vorderman is leading

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About British veteran Johnny Johnson.

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Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11am this morning.

:00:54.:00:59.

All so later we are going to hear exclusive live from the NSPCC, who

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are today calling the new child protection measures in sports clubs.

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We will bring you all the details, including the extra background

:01:12.:01:13.

checks you might have to go through if you work with children. Do get in

:01:14.:01:18.

touch on that, it would be really interesting to hear your views, two

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loopholes they are calling for the Government to close immediately. I

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would be interesting to hear what it is like trying to get a background

:01:28.:01:29.

check now if you work with children. Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:30.:01:32.

we're talking about this morning - If you text, you will be charged

:01:33.:01:35.

at the standard network rate. The US President Donald Trump has

:01:36.:01:39.

said he believes that torture can work to get information out

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of suspected terrorists. But he said he would seek further

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advice before deciding whether to bring back techniques

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such as water-boarding. Speaking to the American ABC network

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in his first televised interview since becoming President,

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he also repeated his pledge to make Mexico pay for a wall along

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its border with the United States. Here's our Washington

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Correspondent, David Willis. Could America be set for a return

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to the interrogation methods of old? A draft executive order

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suggests its commander-in-chief could be preparing to return

:02:03.:02:03.

to the dark days of waterboarding, by reopening the so-called black

:02:04.:02:09.

site secret prisons operated In his first TV interview

:02:10.:02:11.

since becoming President, Donald Trump made clear

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he is considering scrapping an order by his predecessor that terrorist

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suspects be treated in accordance "Torture works",

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the President declared. When they're chopping off the heads

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of our people and other people, when they're chopping off the heads

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of people because they happen to be a Christian in the Middle East,

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when Isis is doing things that nobody has ever heard

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of since mediaeval times, would I feel strongly

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about water boarding? As far as I'm concerned,

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we have to fight fire with fire. Reports suggest Mr Trump is also due

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to announce plans to close America's borders to refugees,

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for a period at least, and implement tougher visa

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restrictions on citizens from certain predominantly Muslim

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nations with links to terrorism, In an effort to quell the influx

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of illegal immigrants from Mexico, Mr Trump has signed an executive

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order to begin work on building A multimillion dollar venture

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that he insists Mexico Ultimately it'll come out of what's

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happening with Mexico and we're going to be

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starting those negotiations soon, and we will be

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in a form reimbursed by Mexico. That has ruffled the feathers

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of America's southern neighbour. In an address to the nation,

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Mexico's president said they have no The Mexican president is due

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in Washington next week. He faces difficult discussions

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with an American counterpart clearly determined to reverse

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many of the changes brought With us now is our political

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guru Norman Smith. Theresa May has a forthcoming

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meeting with Donald Trump. What's Theresa May hoping

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to get out of the meeting? Well, she wants to make sure that we

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are in lockstep with Donald Trump, that we are like that with the new

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US president. Because while all British prime ministers go over

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there and talk about the special relationship, it seems to me Theresa

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May is going on awful lot further. She talks about how, you know, we

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have fought in wars together. But she says that Britain and America

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made the more than world, and we can read it again. She seems almost to

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be sort of harking back to an era when Britain and America were the

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two superpowers who forged the way things were done in the world. She

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says we can do that again, we have shaped institutions and values and

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we can once again adopt that leadership role. The second very

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striking thing is she seems to be pretty much budding Brexit on the

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same page as Mr Trump's election victory, saying both heart of change

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and renewal and a time when countries rediscover the sense of

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self-confidence. You get the very clear impression that she wants to

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put us as close as possible to Donald Trump. The reason for that,

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the don't have to be Einstein, is because obviously we are leaving the

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EU, and we need new relationships, and boy, oh boy, do we need that

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strong alliance with America and that trade deal. And that means

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being as close as possible to Donald Trump. Donald Trump as we heard has

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been talking about torture. What sort of reaction has there been to

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his comments? Very interesting, already there is quite a backlash

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from MPs, including from, you know, some of her own MPs, who are very

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unhappy about that. We had a senior Conservative MP saying, let me just

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get his words, he said... He urged Mrs May to tell Donald Trump that in

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no circumstances will she be allowing Britain to be dragged into

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facilitating torture. We have it we could from Sarah Wollaston, another

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leading Conservative MP. -- a tweet. She says, you cannot lead on a

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global stage by advocating torture. And one MP who sits on the

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intelligence and Security committee said, these are the people who

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monitor our intelligence agencies, he respects me this morning to say,

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this is going to cause real problems for the British intelligence

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agencies because we are not going to be able to incorporate with the

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Americans if they are using torture. -- he texted me this morning. The

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guidance that is given to our intelligence officers, let me tell

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you what it says. It says, personnel will be aware of concerns about

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torture and cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment. There is an

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absolute prohibition of torture in international law. The UK Government

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policy on such conduct is clear that Mike we do not participate in or

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condone the use of torture. In other words, British agents cannot take

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advantage of American intelligence if it is being gleaned by torture,

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and they cannot be in the same room if torture is being carried out.

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That is going to presumably be something which Mrs May is going to

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have to confront Donald Trump about. Thank you, Norman.

:07:21.:07:23.

Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

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Good morning, Victoria. The Government will publish a bill to

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enable it invoke Article 50 and trigger a process of leaving the

:07:36.:07:39.

European Union. The Brexit Secretary David Davies says the bill will be

:07:40.:07:42.

straightforward, although opposition party was will seek to make

:07:43.:07:46.

amendments. The Government was forced to draw up legislation after

:07:47.:07:48.

losing an appeal at the Supreme Court.

:07:49.:07:51.

The NSPCC is demanding that it be made illegal for sports coaches

:07:52.:07:54.

to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care.

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The charity says it's already illegal for teachers and social

:07:58.:07:59.

workers to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care.

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It also wants to tighten the rules around background checks,

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with the most stringent checks becoming compulsory for all coaches

:08:05.:08:06.

A major report into the health of children in the UK has found

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an "alarming gap" exists between the rich and poor -

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with one in five young people suffering as a result of poverty.

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The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health also suggests

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the UK is lagging behind most western European countries when it

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comes to measures such as infant mortality rates and obesity.

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Our Health Correspondent, Dominic Hughes, reports.

:08:30.:08:36.

Anxiety, depression and a need to be listened to.

:08:37.:08:41.

These are the themes of a short play on mental health, devised by school

:08:42.:08:44.

The issues they touch on reflect those in today's report

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on the health of children and young people.

:08:51.:08:53.

It paints a picture of the UK struggling to match other countries

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The evidence has been developing for some time that all is not well

:08:56.:09:04.

It's the first time we have really put together a proper picture

:09:05.:09:08.

across all four countries, and the news is not good.

:09:09.:09:10.

Some of the issues that raise concerns over the state of child

:09:11.:09:14.

health include just 34% of babies breast fed to six months,

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40% of children in England's most deprived areas are overweight

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or obese, and half of adult mental health problems start

:09:25.:09:27.

And for the drama group in Liverpool, mental health issues

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Mental illnesses are an illness of the brain, and they're as valid

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as any other illnesses to any other part of the body.

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Just because you can't see it physically, it doesn't

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Our production will mainly be to get rid of that stigma

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about mental health, and just educate the audience a bit

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The four governments of the UK are all challenged to consider

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the impact their policies will have on children.

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They've responded by restating commitments

:10:02.:10:02.

GDP figures for the UK economy are to be released

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The figures will cover the fourth quarter of 2016.

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For more on this, our Business Presenter Ben Thompson

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joins us from the Institute of Engineering and Technology -

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in sight of both Parliament and the City.

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Obviously lots of people watching these figures very closely, not

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least the Prime Minister, as she heads off to meet Donald Trump. What

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are we expecting from them? Yes, you're absolutely right, those

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figures are watched very closely indeed by both parties, by the

:10:41.:10:44.

politicians, and also by the City of London. Because it will give us an

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indication of just how quickly the UK economy is growing, and it is

:10:48.:10:51.

looking back, look back at the last quarter of last year. Of course, the

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things the economy is contending with our issues that are facing us

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in the year ahead, too. That is the uncertainty surrounding the Brexit

:11:01.:11:04.

folk. There is the rise in prices as much inflation is picking up again,

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it means we may be paying more in the shops and supermarkets. But

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things like petrol when we go out shopping. Those prices are going up.

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At the same time there has been a fall in the value of the pound,

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which means that things we have bought from overseas will also be

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more expensive. That includes products made elsewhere, and also

:11:25.:11:27.

raw materials and food that is imported from elsewhere. So, given

:11:28.:11:31.

that we are expecting the economy to have grown by about half of 1%,

:11:32.:11:38.

slightly down on the three months before that. Many people saying that

:11:39.:11:42.

is a good performance given all of that uncertainty. The big question

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as we know is what happens in the year ahead? Business is craving some

:11:47.:11:50.

sort of certainty. It's trying to find out what the Government will do

:11:51.:11:53.

as far as Brexit is concerned, when it will trigger that Article 50 to

:11:54.:11:57.

begin those so-called false proceedings. That is weighing very

:11:58.:12:01.

heavily on their mind when it comes to making decisions -- divorce

:12:02.:12:04.

proceedings. When it comes to expanding the business or taking on

:12:05.:12:11.

new staff. There is uncertainty surrounding the presidency of Donald

:12:12.:12:14.

Trump. Those figures are due out at 9:30am.

:12:15.:12:22.

The Royal Bank of Scotland will take another financial hit

:12:23.:12:24.

for mis-selling risky mortgages in America in the run-up

:12:25.:12:26.

The bank, which is more than 70% owned by the taxpayer,

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could be fined an additional ?3 billion by the US

:12:31.:12:33.

Almost half of all hospitals in England are failing to meet basic

:12:34.:12:37.

Government standards for hospital food, according to data released

:12:38.:12:39.

The Campaign for Better Hospital Food warns

:12:40.:12:42.

The Government says standards are improving.

:12:43.:12:47.

Ant and Dec won the prize for Best TV Presenter for the 16th year

:12:48.:12:51.

running at last night's National Television Awards.

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The BBC presenter Graham Norton was recognised for his services to

:12:55.:13:04.

broadcasting. Len Goodman lost out on the public's choice of best

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judge. Other winners included

:13:07.:13:07.

Mary Berry for Best Judge. The BBC's Strictly Come Dancing

:13:08.:13:09.

picked up the gong Emmerdale was voted Best Soap,

:13:10.:13:11.

and ITV's This Morning won Please welcome your

:13:12.:13:15.

host for the night! The National Television Awards bring

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out the great and the good A new category was

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introduced this year for Period Drama, won

:13:29.:13:30.

by Call the Midwife. It was up against the likes of Peaky

:13:31.:13:32.

Blinders and Poldark. Best Comedy went

:13:33.:13:37.

to Mrs Brown's Boys, that got the award

:13:38.:13:38.

for Best Talent Show. Best TV Judge went to a very

:13:39.:13:46.

surprised Mary Berry, in her final The first and foremost

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thing is to be fair, Despite our television

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viewing habits changing, the average household watches

:13:54.:13:57.

about 3.5 hours a day. Nights like these are a chance

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to celebrate the best of what's Ladies and gentlemen,

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the nation's heartthrob, Chatshow host Graham Norton

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collected the Lifetime Achievement And Ant and Dec won Best TV

:14:10.:14:14.

Presenter for the 16th year We are very lucky to have the three

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shows at the moment, and long We just want to keep

:14:21.:14:33.

making good telly. But the surprise of the night

:14:34.:14:37.

was Casualty's win for Best Drama. The Saturday night staple

:14:38.:14:41.

which turned 30 last year. It be some high profile and high

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budget smashes, including the night manager and Game of Thrones.

:14:51.:14:57.

I loved that air punch from Mary Berry!

:14:58.:15:00.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

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Congratulations to all of the winners, particularly Ant and Dec.

:15:03.:15:10.

With regards to Donald Trump's comments on torture, Robben Facebook

:15:11.:15:14.

says, Theresa May is demonstrating incompetent and a total lack of

:15:15.:15:17.

judgment by visiting the American president. Your views are welcome.

:15:18.:15:19.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:15:20.:15:21.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:15:22.:15:25.

Time for sport with Hugh Woozencroft.

:15:26.:15:27.

And Hugh, it's Throwback Thursday at the Australian Open

:15:28.:15:29.

Good morning, Victoria. It's a vintage year in tennis. 2015 has

:15:30.:15:39.

seen the rear burdens of that and Katya and Nadal, and now Venus and

:15:40.:15:44.

Serena Williams will appear opposite each other -- the re-emergence.

:15:45.:15:50.

Serena Williams won her match 6-2, 6-1. It took just 50 minutes.

:15:51.:15:56.

Against the Arms seeded Croatian. It wasn't to be again the world number

:15:57.:16:01.

two. -- the unseeded Croatian. She will be looking to win a record 23rd

:16:02.:16:07.

grand slam singles title. In the way is her old sister Venus. She won

:16:08.:16:13.

back her match in three sets -- her older sister. So, a great result for

:16:14.:16:21.

her, a brilliant result for Britain's Andy Lapthorne and his

:16:22.:16:25.

partner David whitener. They have won the final against the Paralympic

:16:26.:16:31.

champions. We are guaranteed a British winner in the men's

:16:32.:16:34.

wheelchair doubles in Melbourne. Alfie Hewett and Gordon Reid will

:16:35.:16:39.

face off with their respective partners. Roger Federer playing at

:16:40.:16:42.

the moment, just darted his semifinal against Stan Wawrinka,

:16:43.:16:45.

five or in the first set of that one.

:16:46.:16:53.

The league cup final, what is happening there? Liverpool were in

:16:54.:16:58.

such good form, but they have reached their first EFL Cup final

:16:59.:17:02.

since 1979, Southampton, after beating Liverpool 1-0 at Anfield

:17:03.:17:07.

last night, and they were one goal up from the first leg as well. Shane

:17:08.:17:18.

Long sealed their place. They will face the whole city by Manchester

:17:19.:17:32.

United. -- Hull. What about the reaction to Usain Bolt having one of

:17:33.:17:37.

his medals being taken away because of a team-mate? He will not be

:17:38.:17:42.

smiling today. And he will have to get back one of his Olympic gold

:17:43.:17:48.

medals after his team-mate Nesta Carter was disqualified over a

:17:49.:18:03.

doping incident at Beijing. Jamaica have been stripped of the gold in

:18:04.:18:09.

the four by 100 metres. He can no longer claim to hold the famous

:18:10.:18:14.

triple triple. He says he will appeal to the Court of Arbitration

:18:15.:18:19.

for Sport. And some very good news for British skiing fans, something

:18:20.:18:26.

we don't say often. Milli night and her guide won downhill gold on the

:18:27.:18:33.

opening day of the world Para Alpine Championships in Italy.

:18:34.:18:48.

Her guide shouts instructions from in front of her. He helped her to

:18:49.:18:59.

see the racing line as well. She has won 11 medals, seven of them gold,

:19:00.:19:07.

in a great 12 months. We will have more headlines that have passed.

:19:08.:19:08.

CNN. It's nearly ten years since British

:19:09.:19:12.

student Meredith Kercher was killed while studying in Italy,

:19:13.:19:15.

in what became - and has remained - one of the most notorious

:19:16.:19:18.

murder cases in the world. This morning, we can speak

:19:19.:19:21.

exclusively to Raffaele Sollecito, who together with Meredith's

:19:22.:19:23.

roommate Amanda Knox, was wrongly convicted

:19:24.:19:24.

and imprisoned for the crime. He says the ordeal

:19:25.:19:28.

has scarred his life. And with legal bills

:19:29.:19:30.

that topped ?1 million, he's now pushing for compensation

:19:31.:19:34.

from the Italian government. TRANSLATION: Both the defendants

:19:35.:20:35.

for A, B, C and D are acquitted because they have not

:20:36.:20:38.

committed the crime. I think we are still

:20:39.:21:06.

on the journey to the truth. It may be the fact that we don't

:21:07.:21:09.

ever really know what I'm a normal guy who passed

:21:10.:21:13.

through a nightmare. Now I'm different, because of

:21:14.:21:26.

the nightmare I passed through. Good morning to you. Good morning.

:21:27.:21:47.

Tell us how your life has been changed by what you experienced. I

:21:48.:21:55.

am a kind of normal person. It is a weird kind of celebrity which older

:21:56.:22:01.

people look at, especially in Italy, but it is not a good thing, because

:22:02.:22:09.

of course, I bore a burden of an image that is not who I really am.

:22:10.:22:17.

That image is what, do you think? It depends who is looking at me. In

:22:18.:22:27.

Italy, they are split between people who think that I am innocent and

:22:28.:22:34.

people who think that I am guilty. It depends on what they have as a

:22:35.:22:41.

background in their mind and they think about me something different

:22:42.:22:44.

on one side or another. Those people who think you are guilty, do you

:22:45.:22:49.

believe you will ever be able to change their minds, or have you

:22:50.:22:53.

accepted that? Each time I spoke with them, each time any person

:22:54.:23:02.

meets me and talks to me, they realise that what the media said

:23:03.:23:06.

Mears totally -- said about me is totally different from what I am, so

:23:07.:23:15.

they changed their mind each time, but as you may understand, it is not

:23:16.:23:19.

possible to reach all the people involved in this case. With the

:23:20.:23:22.

news, you can reach 5 million people. I can know a few hundred of

:23:23.:23:30.

them. Can you give our audience an insight into what it is like to be

:23:31.:23:34.

wrongly jailed for a crime that you had nothing to do with? It's really

:23:35.:23:42.

a nightmare, and it affects all of your life. It changes it. You have

:23:43.:23:51.

to face, you have to struggle for anything that you do. You have

:23:52.:23:57.

attention for everything that you do. Even a tiny false step, it's

:23:58.:24:04.

made like a huge thing. Like what? What false step of you made that has

:24:05.:24:13.

been blown up? At the beginning, you can imagine that I was bringing a

:24:14.:24:20.

pocket knife in my jeans since I was 13 years old. The police department

:24:21.:24:28.

thought that it was the murder knife, even if it was just a

:24:29.:24:36.

collection article. Even this, or the fact that I didn't ask for a

:24:37.:24:45.

lawyer during the interrogations, or even my misinterpretation of the

:24:46.:24:59.

seriousness of the case. Anything, really. Later, each thing I said,

:25:00.:25:08.

each thing I looked at the case with Amanda, whatever I did was taken as

:25:09.:25:17.

a fault, a big fall. Anything that I look at was a clue of my guilt, so

:25:18.:25:28.

it is really tragic. And do you feel under scrutiny now, as you try to

:25:29.:25:33.

rebuild your life, still? Yes, because I run my home business. I

:25:34.:25:42.

have an application to commemorate people who have been lost, for

:25:43.:25:48.

relatives who have passed away, and I got a lot of criticism on that.

:25:49.:25:55.

Also, anything like whatever I decided to do, comments on other

:25:56.:26:08.

cases on television, they ask me to be someone with an opinion because

:26:09.:26:12.

of what I passed through. I got a lot of criticism as well, so it is

:26:13.:26:20.

kind of anything I do has to be commented by anyone in a good way or

:26:21.:26:27.

in a bad way. It depends on what they really think about me. Have you

:26:28.:26:35.

accepted that you will probably for ever be associated with the death of

:26:36.:26:42.

Meredith Kercher? I hope it will not be in this way for the rest of my

:26:43.:26:50.

life. Of course, it's a big part, it's a parenthesis inside it's a

:26:51.:26:57.

really important case, and in the history of judgments, it will be an

:26:58.:27:03.

imprint for ever, but I don't think that my life is bounded by this,

:27:04.:27:11.

because it is over. There has to be an end of it. Of course, in the

:27:12.:27:20.

trials, this is the end. But in the people's mind, it has to be

:27:21.:27:25.

digestive. How have you tried to rebuild your life? Yeah, I'm trying

:27:26.:27:39.

still. I'm struggling. The greatest obstacle, I find, along my path is

:27:40.:27:50.

prejudice by people whom I don't know. This is something that I think

:27:51.:27:55.

will, step-by-step, clear up. It takes time and force and you have to

:27:56.:28:03.

have the will to do that. I cannot hide and close inside myself,

:28:04.:28:07.

because it can be worse. I was going to ask, have you ever considered

:28:08.:28:11.

moving from Italy? Lily, that is where your family, but has that been

:28:12.:28:17.

a consideration? Not so, because I have all my family, and I run a

:28:18.:28:25.

business there. I have not considered. They did something

:28:26.:28:37.

really terrible to me... They? The prosecution. There was nothing wrong

:28:38.:28:48.

I did, so there is no real reason to leave my country because of

:28:49.:28:57.

something that I didn't do. You believe that you and Amanda Knox are

:28:58.:29:05.

victims - what do you mean by that? I mean that we were appointed by the

:29:06.:29:11.

prosecution since the beginning without any real clue. They needed

:29:12.:29:14.

to close the case as soon as possible because there was the

:29:15.:29:19.

greatest attention ever from all over the world on a murder case, so

:29:20.:29:27.

they needed the guilty people soon. I remember the police department of

:29:28.:29:38.

Perugia is making a press conference, an international press

:29:39.:29:42.

conference, saying that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are guilty,

:29:43.:29:51.

and Meredith Kercher was murdered inside and orgies gone wrong. -- an

:29:52.:30:06.

or G -- orgy gone wrong. They did not want to go back and look at

:30:07.:30:14.

clues and real facts at the murder scene to follow the right theory.

:30:15.:30:21.

And that is what you mean by saying you are rape victim. How do you

:30:22.:30:28.

think of Meredith Kercher's family? I think about them, and I am really

:30:29.:30:35.

sad that they still stick about the prosecution theory, because it is

:30:36.:30:38.

completely wrong. They missed the case. They say they still have

:30:39.:30:41.

questions and that they may never know the truth. That is what the

:30:42.:30:49.

prosecution says today. It is exactly the same thing. I am sad

:30:50.:30:53.

they repeat what the prosecution says, because the real facts about

:30:54.:31:00.

this murder, I have seen the documents also you can read them and

:31:01.:31:04.

see that the reality of this case is completely different from what the

:31:05.:31:06.

prosecution wanted to make people believe.

:31:07.:31:11.

What is the nature of your friendship or otherwise with Amanda

:31:12.:31:22.

Knox now? We are friends. And, yeah, very fast friends. Sometimes we

:31:23.:31:29.

talk, but not so often. Right. Do you ever talk about the past? No.

:31:30.:31:34.

There is no reason to do that. Actually we did it for five days. It

:31:35.:31:45.

is completely meaningless to talk about it. But you had a shared

:31:46.:31:54.

experience, four years in jail, both of you, for something which you...

:31:55.:32:00.

This is something that you can use for other people who have been

:32:01.:32:09.

wrongly jailed. So I'm trying to reach associations to help wrongly

:32:10.:32:22.

imprisoned prisoners. Prisoners, all of them, and also much more people

:32:23.:32:28.

who have been jailed for a mistake. And I think that doing our

:32:29.:32:39.

imprisonment, we formed even a path, but not the same, because she was

:32:40.:32:51.

inside the female prison, I was inside the men's prison. So we

:32:52.:32:59.

completely lived in two different world's, even though these world's

:33:00.:33:05.

were parallel. On Friday, you will find out if you are to receive

:33:06.:33:09.

compensation from the Italian authorities for the wrongful

:33:10.:33:14.

imprisonment you experienced. What is the maximum that you could spec

:33:15.:33:21.

to receive? -- that you could expect. The maximum is 516,000

:33:22.:33:26.

jurors. That is what you have asked for? Yeah. -- your rose. Of course,

:33:27.:33:33.

we have all the rights to claim it. But that is not even enough to

:33:34.:33:37.

compensate what my family and me paid around these years. Because the

:33:38.:33:44.

past ten years of this ordeal, of this nightmare, in this ten years we

:33:45.:33:52.

sold even our apartments. We have still that's on it. What do your

:33:53.:33:59.

debts had up to, do you know? How much debt are you and your family

:34:00.:34:07.

in? We have still around 400,000 euros of debt. So this can just

:34:08.:34:16.

clear up our debts. And a little more. But, you know, in the end,

:34:17.:34:31.

we... This is a calculation, because this is the maximum you can ask for

:34:32.:34:38.

your wrongful imprisonment. It doesn't have nothing to do with the

:34:39.:34:44.

ordeal itself. With the ordeal? With the ordeal itself, because of

:34:45.:34:48.

course, this is calculated by the days you spent in prison. But this

:34:49.:34:54.

ordeal didn't last only for years, it lasted for ten years. I was

:34:55.:35:01.

inside this nightmare for ten years. After the decision, we have to think

:35:02.:35:12.

and manage how to make the government no that this is not just

:35:13.:35:22.

my imprisonment, this has affected all of my life, and affected even a

:35:23.:35:29.

big part of my life ten years. Is it difficult to meet new people? Or

:35:30.:35:36.

not? Yes, it's not that difficult, it's always... A kind of, they have

:35:37.:35:45.

prejudiced. They always change their mind and view me as a normal guy.

:35:46.:35:51.

But on the other side, before I come by and I speak to anybody, they feel

:35:52.:35:59.

something that is, I don't know, and or around me, which is heavy, which

:36:00.:36:05.

is something that they have to cope to, and they feel it. A couple of

:36:06.:36:12.

messages from people watching you speak this morning. Sarah says, so

:36:13.:36:18.

many lives have been ruined by this case. Roger says, the only victims,

:36:19.:36:25.

he disagrees with you, he says the only victims in this dreadful crime

:36:26.:36:30.

are Meredith Kercher and her family. There are many victims in this case.

:36:31.:36:38.

Amanda's parents, my parents, all our families, Patrice mamba's

:36:39.:36:45.

families, there are a lot of victims, actually. Meredith Kercher

:36:46.:36:49.

is the first victim. But there are many others made by the prosecution

:36:50.:36:55.

mistakes. What does your future hold? I don't know. What do you hope

:36:56.:37:06.

for? I hope to make my company began bigger. -- bigger and bigger. And to

:37:07.:37:15.

help people who have been wrongfully imprisoned. Those are the two goals.

:37:16.:37:20.

I'm following. Thank you very much for talking to us today. Thanks for

:37:21.:37:27.

your time. Thank you. We appreciate it. A couple of bits of breaking

:37:28.:37:31.

news to bring you. This is on the state of our prisons in England and

:37:32.:37:36.

Wales. New figures show that a record number of people killed

:37:37.:37:39.

themselves in prisons in England and Wales last year. The Ministry of

:37:40.:37:44.

Justice says there were 119 deaths, the highest number sets records were

:37:45.:37:50.

first compiled in 1978. The overall number of deaths in jails was also

:37:51.:37:55.

at a record 354. We will bring you more on that story and reaction in

:37:56.:38:00.

the programme this morning. And the latest figures which give us an idea

:38:01.:38:04.

about the state of the UK economy is just out. The UK economy grew by

:38:05.:38:10.

0.6% during the the fourth quarter, the last few months of 2016. That

:38:11.:38:14.

from the office of National sadistic. The British economy grew

:38:15.:38:19.

by just over 0.5% during the last few months of 2016.

:38:20.:38:22.

And we'll be live at the Science Museum in London

:38:23.:38:24.

as Tim Peak unveils the spacecraft he used on his recent mission

:38:25.:38:27.

Dambuster hero George Johnny Johnson is the last surviving Brit

:38:28.:38:31.

of the bouncing bomb raids on Hitlers dams.

:38:32.:38:33.

We speak to Carol Vorderman about why she's spearheading

:38:34.:38:35.

Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:38:36.:38:51.

Good morning. Let's begin with President Trump.

:38:52.:38:58.

The US President Donald Trump has said he believes that torture can

:38:59.:39:01.

work to get information out of suspected terrorists.

:39:02.:39:03.

But he said he would seek further advice before deciding

:39:04.:39:05.

whether to bring back techniques such as water-boarding.

:39:06.:39:07.

Speaking to the American ABC network, in his first televised

:39:08.:39:10.

interview since becoming President, he also repeated his pledge to make

:39:11.:39:12.

Mexico pay for a wall along its border with the United States.

:39:13.:39:15.

It comes as Theresa May travels to the US to become the first world

:39:16.:39:18.

The Government will publish a Bill today to enable it to invoke Article

:39:19.:39:23.

50 and trigger the process of the UK leaving the European Union.

:39:24.:39:26.

The Brexit Secretary David Davis says the Bill will be

:39:27.:39:28.

straightforward, although opposition parties will seek

:39:29.:39:30.

The Government was forced to draw up the legislation after losing

:39:31.:39:36.

The NSPCC is demanding that it be made illegal for sports coaches

:39:37.:39:42.

to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care.

:39:43.:39:45.

The charity points out that it's already illegal for teachers

:39:46.:39:48.

and social workers to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care.

:39:49.:39:52.

It also wants to tighten the rules around background checks,

:39:53.:39:56.

with the most stringent checks becoming compulsory for all coaches

:39:57.:39:59.

The Royal Bank of Scotland will take another financial hit

:40:00.:40:09.

for mis-selling risky mortgages in America in the run-up

:40:10.:40:11.

to the financial crisis of 2008. The bank, which is more than 70%

:40:12.:40:14.

owned by the taxpayer, could be fined an additional

:40:15.:40:16.

?3 billion by the US Department of Justice.

:40:17.:40:24.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:40:25.:40:26.

Hello again. It has been a big day for the Williams family. Venus and

:40:27.:40:38.

Serena making the final at the Australian open. Venus took three

:40:39.:40:42.

sets to beat a fellow American and reach her first grand slam final

:40:43.:40:47.

since Wimbledon in 2009, when she played her younger sister Serena.

:40:48.:40:52.

Serena dominated her opponent to reach a 34th major final, it took

:40:53.:40:56.

her less than an hour. Roger Federer won the first set of his semifinal

:40:57.:41:00.

against his Swiss compatriot Stan Wawrinka. He broke him in the last

:41:01.:41:05.

game of the set. So far it has gone with serve 2-2 in the second. Shane

:41:06.:41:12.

Long's goal booked them a spot in the EFL Cup final with eight 2-0 win

:41:13.:41:19.

over Liverpool. Britain's Milind night won downhill gold on the

:41:20.:41:26.

opening day of the world Paris skiing championships in Italy. She

:41:27.:41:30.

beat the five-time Paralympic champion of Slovakia. That's all the

:41:31.:41:34.

sport for now, we will be back with more just after 10am. Let's go live

:41:35.:41:41.

to the Commons now. The Brexit Secretary David Davies is outlining

:41:42.:41:45.

the Goverment's white paper, the formal policy document, to his

:41:46.:41:49.

colleagues. Taking into account the framework between the future

:41:50.:41:54.

relationship of the EU and the UK. It is therefore impossible to start

:41:55.:41:57.

negotiations unless one has an outline agreement on what that

:41:58.:42:01.

framework should be. Obviously, MPs are able to respond to what David

:42:02.:42:06.

Davies is saying. This is Peter Lilley, Conservative MP. Will we

:42:07.:42:12.

press our partners to clarify that right at the beginning of the

:42:13.:42:16.

negotiations? Well, we already have done. I am in my one meeting with,

:42:17.:42:22.

when he was talking about the sequential approach, which seems to

:42:23.:42:26.

me not practical, for me it really isn't possible to come to an outcome

:42:27.:42:30.

on either the negotiations without a clear idea of the trade aspect of

:42:31.:42:38.

the negotiations. His description is pretty accurate, and I've said in

:42:39.:42:42.

terms that we intend all of this to be concluded within the two years.

:42:43.:42:47.

Big off says it wants nothing further to do with the European

:42:48.:42:50.

Court of Justice. So the Government says. In any new free trade

:42:51.:42:58.

agreement with this 27 member states, there will have to be a

:42:59.:43:01.

legal arbitration mechanism whose rulings will be obliged to

:43:02.:43:05.

implement. If the European Court of Justice is not acceptable, what

:43:06.:43:12.

court would be? Well, it would not this is the only by a court. He is

:43:13.:43:16.

quite right, most international... LAUGHTER

:43:17.:43:21.

Listen to the answer! Most international trade agreements have

:43:22.:43:25.

an arbitration, normally preceded by mediation, which is used more often.

:43:26.:43:29.

In the case of the Canada arbitration, for example, you have

:43:30.:43:33.

got one person from each side and one neutral who are appointed by

:43:34.:43:37.

agreement, if agreement cannot be reached, it is a fallback and a

:43:38.:43:40.

simple arbitration mechanism. There is all of the difference in the

:43:41.:43:44.

world between a simple trade arbitration mechanism and a court

:43:45.:43:47.

that reaches into every nut and cranny of your society stop by David

:43:48.:43:53.

Davies, Brexit Secretary, answering a question from Hilary Benn. What is

:43:54.:43:57.

David Davis doing this morning, Norman? That was a little bit of

:43:58.:44:01.

shadow boxing. What they are all waiting for is this Bill to trigger

:44:02.:44:08.

our withdrawal from the EU, what is called the European Union

:44:09.:44:17.

notification of withdrawal bill. That's the legislation which will

:44:18.:44:20.

begin the process of us leaving the EU and being out within the next two

:44:21.:44:26.

years. MPs are kind of waiting until they see that. The expectation is

:44:27.:44:30.

that it will be a short bill, stripped down, pared back, the

:44:31.:44:34.

Government alt-right FastTrack through the Commons. Later this

:44:35.:44:38.

morning we will get an idea from the Government in which the pace it

:44:39.:44:43.

wants to move. The signs are they want that bill through the House of

:44:44.:44:47.

Commons within a fortnight. And then it goes to that place, the House of

:44:48.:44:50.

Lords, where there may be more trouble ahead. The Government has no

:44:51.:44:55.

control in the House of Lords, they do not have a majority, and appears

:44:56.:44:59.

pretty much do what they want, but most of them are opposed to Brexit.

:45:00.:45:03.

There is a potential for them to cause all sorts of difficulties. The

:45:04.:45:07.

indications are the Government have left a big fat whopping six weeks to

:45:08.:45:14.

get the Bill through the House of Lords in order to meet Mrs May's

:45:15.:45:19.

deadline of the end of March for beginning, beginning with all from

:45:20.:45:20.

the EU. Thank you very much, Norman. Coming up...

:45:21.:45:24.

We hear from the man known as "the Spielberg of video games",

:45:25.:45:26.

and get his vision of Let's go to the Science Museum

:45:27.:45:29.

in London now, where everyone's favourite astronaut -

:45:30.:45:33.

Tim Peake - is meeting fans Let's join our correspondent

:45:34.:45:35.

Rebecca Morelle. I am here at the science Museum, and

:45:36.:45:57.

here is the Soyuz capsule that took Tim Peake into space. It then safely

:45:58.:46:03.

brought him back down again. You can see from looking at it, the size of

:46:04.:46:08.

it, it is pretty small. The crew of three would have been really snug in

:46:09.:46:14.

there. Tim Peake spoke about his experience inside the Soyuz capsule

:46:15.:46:22.

a little while ago at a press conference. The first time I got to

:46:23.:46:28.

say it was -- see it was at the top of the elevator. It had 300 tonnes

:46:29.:46:31.

of rocket fuel waiting to go into orbit. That evening, there were

:46:32.:46:36.

three very excited astronauts in the capsule, but I think there were

:46:37.:46:40.

about 3000 very excited students right here at the London science

:46:41.:46:44.

Museum to witness that launch. I have subsequently been able to watch

:46:45.:46:52.

the launch party from space, and it was one of the few occasions where I

:46:53.:46:55.

wished I was on the ground because it seemed there was a good party

:46:56.:46:58.

going on back here. After that, I saw this spacecraft every day,

:46:59.:47:06.

because our docking port was right next to the cup of the window. I

:47:07.:47:15.

always took a moment to look at it, not just out of fondness for the

:47:16.:47:19.

Accra, but this thing is our lifeboat for six months, our only

:47:20.:47:25.

way of getting back to Earth safely. And the Soyuz is sat there for six

:47:26.:47:31.

months, exposed to the vacuum of space, B radiation, small meteorite,

:47:32.:47:36.

and so it is prudent to visually inspect it each day to make sure

:47:37.:47:41.

everything is OK. One of the most demanding phases for a spacecraft,

:47:42.:47:46.

it is of course, is to return the crew safely through the Earth's

:47:47.:47:50.

atmosphere. Although this module has been refurbished, I was delighted to

:47:51.:47:55.

see that it still bears the scorch marks of the 1600 Celsius punishment

:47:56.:48:03.

the spacecraft takes as it re-entered the Earth's atmosphere.

:48:04.:48:08.

And you can see the scorch marks on there. This thing went through a

:48:09.:48:13.

really turbulent ride as it re-entered. There is a select band

:48:14.:48:20.

of people who have been into space and have travelled in one of the

:48:21.:48:24.

Soyuz capsules before. I am joined by one, Helen Sharman. You went up

:48:25.:48:33.

in 1991. This must bring back some real memories. It is fabulous to see

:48:34.:48:39.

a spacecraft that has really been to space. Rarely do space astronauts

:48:40.:48:43.

get to see their own. It is often just before launch date, and then

:48:44.:48:50.

once you are in space, of course. You can see on the outside that it

:48:51.:48:54.

has really been through all that turmoil and turbulence as it comes

:48:55.:48:57.

back through the atmosphere. Very special. We have your spacesuit on

:48:58.:49:03.

display, and now they have purchased the capsule for an undisclosed

:49:04.:49:08.

amount - why is it important to get objects like this on display for the

:49:09.:49:16.

public? Why do it? It is a piece of history, but it ties us very closely

:49:17.:49:24.

to a person who sat inside it for the launch and the landing. If you

:49:25.:49:29.

imagine what has happened inside that spacecraft, how Tim must've

:49:30.:49:32.

been feeling, and looking at all the science, technology and engineering

:49:33.:49:37.

that goes into creating not just the capsule but the whole aspect of

:49:38.:49:41.

making space flight possible. It is hugely inspirational. Helen, thank

:49:42.:49:45.

you very much. The public will be able to see this soon. It forms part

:49:46.:49:54.

of the permanent collection here. The last time Tim saw this was back

:49:55.:50:04.

in Kazakhstan. It must have been quite an emotional moment for him to

:50:05.:50:07.

actually see it this morning, too. The public will get a chance to clap

:50:08.:50:12.

eyes on it later on today. Thank you, Rebecca.

:50:13.:50:18.

George Johnson - the last surviving member

:50:19.:50:20.

of the famous Dambusters Raid - was only in his early 20s

:50:21.:50:23.

when he and the rest of Bomber Command Squadron 617

:50:24.:50:25.

embarked on the perilous mission to destroy dams in Germany in 1943.

:50:26.:50:28.

His job was to aim the bouncing bombs, circling each dam

:50:29.:50:31.

in his Lancaster 10 times until certain the

:50:32.:50:33.

Every attempt to improve the aim increased the risk,

:50:34.:50:40.

and many of his friends were killed that night.

:50:41.:50:44.

Last year George - who everyone calls Johnny -

:50:45.:50:52.

was passed over for a knighthood after being nominated

:50:53.:50:54.

for his charity work and service to the country.

:50:55.:50:57.

Today his friend Carol Vorderman is going to Parliament -

:50:58.:50:59.

along with Gulf War veteran John Nicol - in a campaign to get

:51:00.:51:02.

I'm ambassador for the Royal Air Force Air Cadets.

:51:03.:51:10.

It was our 75th anniversary so we had this massive

:51:11.:51:12.

Johnny came, and the Air Cadets absolutely adore him.

:51:13.:51:17.

Everybody in the Air Force adores him.

:51:18.:51:19.

Since then, because both Johnny and I live in Bristol,

:51:20.:51:24.

we've met a few times and just had a nice time.

:51:25.:51:27.

But I had no idea that he'd been nominated, let alone...

:51:28.:51:32.

And he didn't appear on the New Year's Honours and that's when it

:51:33.:51:39.

motivated you to really power behind this petition.

:51:40.:51:43.

Together with The Sun newspaper and I.

:51:44.:51:47.

And a lot of people don't know the story of the Dambusters.

:51:48.:51:53.

I'm 56, so I was brought up in a generation where we were told

:51:54.:51:58.

stories about World War II, because many of our fathers had

:51:59.:52:00.

But what I found over the last three weeks,

:52:01.:52:08.

So it's as relevant today, after last year and all

:52:09.:52:16.

of the tumultuous things that are happening around the world,

:52:17.:52:20.

it's becoming more relevant, how we fight for peace.

:52:21.:52:25.

Tell our audience, for those who want to learn more,

:52:26.:52:28.

Dambuster Squadron, as it's known, is the 617 Squadron.

:52:29.:52:34.

And in May 1943 it was decided that we had to take the war to Hitler.

:52:35.:52:38.

So they were in Lancaster bombers which flew very low and slow.

:52:39.:52:42.

And this was a bouncing bomb, which was aimed -

:52:43.:52:49.

and designed by Barnes Wallis - so that they could destroy

:52:50.:52:55.

some of the dams, and therefore a lot of the industrial heartland

:52:56.:53:00.

when the dams burst, which were generating

:53:01.:53:02.

and making aircraft and tanks and machinery and so on,

:53:03.:53:04.

which were obviously servicing Hitler and his armies and forces.

:53:05.:53:09.

So the Dambusters raid, it was an outrageous thought,

:53:10.:53:12.

Many aircraft took off, and sadly not so many came back,

:53:13.:53:21.

and they managed to destroy three dams and damage another.

:53:22.:53:26.

Three were captured as prisoners of war.

:53:27.:53:46.

And of those 77, only 45 survived the war within Bomber Command.

:53:47.:53:49.

Bomber Command was made up of a number of squadrons,

:53:50.:53:52.

And Bomber Command was the military unit that suffered the most

:53:53.:53:55.

Because of the bombings on certain cities towards the end of the war,

:53:56.:54:06.

they were snubbed politically when the war was over.

:54:07.:54:10.

And this was felt very deeply by the veterans and their families.

:54:11.:54:16.

It was only in 2012, and I had quite a lot to do

:54:17.:54:19.

with the fundraising for the Bomber Command memorial.

:54:20.:54:21.

A memorial was erected to those people in Green Park.

:54:22.:54:27.

So Johnny has said that if he were offered a knighthood,

:54:28.:54:30.

he is a terrifically modest gentleman, that he would accept

:54:31.:54:34.

with due humility on behalf of those in 617 Squadron and for the greater

:54:35.:54:37.

What exactly are you doing today with this petition?

:54:38.:54:52.

John Nicol, who is a Gulf War veteran, and I, are starting

:54:53.:54:55.

at the Bomber Command memorial because it's significant that we do.

:54:56.:54:58.

We have this petition, another 32,000 people signed overnight.

:54:59.:55:03.

We will be handing over the petition, but also

:55:04.:55:09.

a new official nomination for an honour at 10 Downing St.

:55:10.:55:14.

We will be going from the Bomber Command memorial to 10

:55:15.:55:16.

I don't think we will be allowed in, but we are handing it over.

:55:17.:55:22.

And the petition remains open after that.

:55:23.:55:25.

Thank you very much. All the best, thank you.

:55:26.:55:33.

Next: Britain's economy grew by 0.6% in the final three months in 2016

:55:34.:55:43.

according to figures from the office of National statistics. Some

:55:44.:55:48.

economists forecast a slowdown after the June referendum. Let's speak to

:55:49.:55:58.

Andy Verity. It is the same as most of the economic news since the

:55:59.:56:02.

referendum, it is on the upsides. -- on the upside. Before the global

:56:03.:56:12.

financial crisis nine years ago, we have had slower growth and it has

:56:13.:56:17.

been more volatile, our pants down, and it was expected that the

:56:18.:56:20.

referendum would cause an economic shock that would slow us down again,

:56:21.:56:25.

but no sign of it so far. The Bank of England did various things to try

:56:26.:56:30.

and ameliorate that. I am sure the Bank of England would like us to

:56:31.:56:34.

think its actions had avoided any further slowdown, but I think it's

:56:35.:56:38.

mostly down to the consumer, really. And the consumer being willing to

:56:39.:56:44.

borrow probably unsustainable amounts to sustain spending. Most of

:56:45.:56:48.

the growth in these numbers is from the services sector. Which means

:56:49.:56:53.

what? It is having a haircut, getting on public transport,

:56:54.:56:59.

watching TV, all of those things. It is not construction or production.

:57:00.:57:06.

Think of North Sea oil etc, getting metal out of the ground. Those are

:57:07.:57:10.

relatively small part of the economy. The economy is 80% services

:57:11.:57:15.

anyway, so you want that sector to grow. The concern there has been for

:57:16.:57:19.

years is that we have balanced growth which emphasises exports and

:57:20.:57:23.

getting money into the country. Instead, we are growing on the same

:57:24.:57:28.

basis we grew before the love of financial crisis, but we're

:57:29.:57:31.

borrowing and spending. Thank you very much, Andy.

:57:32.:57:34.

We'll have reaction to Donald Trump's comments on torture -

:57:35.:57:37.

he says he believes it can work to get information out

:57:38.:57:40.

We will also have reaction to the figures released in the last

:57:41.:57:50.

half-hour showing that a record number of people killed themselves

:57:51.:57:53.

in jail in England and Wales last year. The latest news and sport in a

:57:54.:57:55.

moment, after the latest weather. We will start with our weather

:57:56.:58:05.

watcher pictures, because it is quite grey out there. This was North

:58:06.:58:11.

Yorkshire. There are a few breaks in the cloud in Cheshire. Some sunshine

:58:12.:58:21.

poking through here. The cold feel is accentuated by the wind. It is a

:58:22.:58:27.

cold, bitter wind coming in from the near continent. The cold across

:58:28.:58:31.

Europe has been well documented recently, and it is heading our way.

:58:32.:58:37.

Some places will struggle to get above freezing. The breeze has

:58:38.:58:40.

helped to lift the fog out of the way, but we have a lot of low cloud.

:58:41.:58:47.

Under the cloud, perhaps a spot or two of light rain, perhaps a flake

:58:48.:58:52.

of snow. Most places will be dry but cold, most places hovering around

:58:53.:59:00.

freezing. In the north, a few breaks in the cloud, as we have seen in

:59:01.:59:04.

Cheshire, but the best breaks have been across central and northern

:59:05.:59:08.

parts of Scotland. The eastern side sees more clout. -- more

:59:09.:59:25.

cloud. For many of us, it will feel like a subzero day. It feels like

:59:26.:59:36.

minus five Celsius, minus six Celsius across the North of England.

:59:37.:59:40.

The end of the week is windy, from the South. In the West, changes are

:59:41.:59:46.

taking place. A weather front moves in from the Atlantic, the breeze

:59:47.:59:50.

picks up, and there will be thicker cloud, outbreaks of rain in Northern

:59:51.:59:54.

Ireland, western extremities of England and Wales, and just getting

:59:55.:00:02.

into Scotland as well. Pretty chilly in the north-east, only to Celsius

:00:03.:00:11.

in Newcastle. -- two Celsius. Temperatures are up a bit. Eight

:00:12.:00:17.

Celsius is fairly typical. Saturday night into Sunday, rain moves across

:00:18.:00:21.

the southern half of the UK. There are questions about the details were

:00:22.:00:24.

Sunday. This rain could go further north or south. Not set in stone,

:00:25.:00:30.

but the temperatures relatively mild. Further north, sunshine and

:00:31.:00:35.

six Celsius. Hello, it's 10am, I'm

:00:36.:00:49.

Victoria Derbyshire. In an exclusive interview, Raffaele

:00:50.:00:56.

Sollecito, who - together with Amanda Knox - was wrongly imprisoned

:00:57.:00:59.

for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher, tells this

:01:00.:01:01.

programme he's been living in a nightmare for ten years. There are

:01:02.:01:03.

many victims in this case. Amanda's parents, my parents, all of our

:01:04.:01:08.

families. Patrick's family, Patrick himself, the lot of victims,

:01:09.:01:12.

actually. Of course, Meredith Kercher is the first victim. But

:01:13.:01:17.

there are many others made by prosecution mistakes. He has also

:01:18.:01:21.

told us he is hundreds of thousands of pounds in debt after paying legal

:01:22.:01:25.

bills. He will find out this week if he is to achieve compensation from

:01:26.:01:28.

the Italian government. And you can watch the whole

:01:29.:01:30.

of that exclusive interview Donald Trump says "torture

:01:31.:01:33.

works" with terrorists, as Theresa May prepares to fly

:01:34.:01:41.

to the US to meet him. When they are chopping off the heads

:01:42.:01:44.

of people because they happen to be When Isis is doing things that

:01:45.:01:47.

nobody has ever heard of since medieval times,

:01:48.:01:51.

would I feel strongly As far as I'm concerned,

:01:52.:01:53.

we have to fight fire with fire. We'll be speaking to Moazzam Begg,

:01:54.:01:57.

a former Guantanamo detainee who says he experienced torture

:01:58.:01:59.

at the hands of the Americans, and to a former Director

:02:00.:02:02.

of Intelligence at M16 to ask him The NSPCC tells this programme that

:02:03.:02:05.

if we are to tackle child sex abuse in sport it must be made illegal

:02:06.:02:09.

for sports coaches to have sex with We will talk to them in the next

:02:10.:02:13.

hour. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:02:14.:02:25.

with a summary of today's news. Good morning. A record number of

:02:26.:02:36.

inmates killed themselves in prisons in England and Wales last year, new

:02:37.:02:39.

figures show. The Ministry of Justice said the -- the world 119

:02:40.:02:49.

suicides. The number of self harm incidents jumped by 13% -- 23%. I am

:02:50.:02:55.

very clear that the levels of violence in our prisons are too

:02:56.:03:00.

high. The levels of self harm are too high. Since I became Justice

:03:01.:03:04.

Secretary I have focused on dealing with this problem. That is why we

:03:05.:03:09.

are investing an extra ?100 million, 2500 extra prison officers. The man

:03:10.:03:17.

acquitted of the murder of Meredith Kercher alongside Amanda Knox has

:03:18.:03:20.

told this programme that he still has more than 400,000 euros of debt

:03:21.:03:25.

following the case. He said the maximum he can claim from the

:03:26.:03:28.

Italian government following the acquittal doesn't cover the cost.

:03:29.:03:33.

This is calculated by the days you spent in prison. But this ordeal

:03:34.:03:39.

didn't last only four years, it lasted for ten years. I was inside

:03:40.:03:41.

this nightmare for ten years. GDP figures for the UK economy,

:03:42.:03:44.

which measure national output, They cover the fourth

:03:45.:03:49.

quarter of last year They're unchanged from 0.6% over

:03:50.:03:53.

the previous three months. Economists had forecast a slow-down

:03:54.:03:56.

after the Brexit referendum. but strong consumer spending in the

:03:57.:04:05.

run-up to Christmas and expansion of the hotel and restaurant industry is

:04:06.:04:07.

boosted the economy. The US President Donald Trump says

:04:08.:04:10.

he believes that torture can work to get information out

:04:11.:04:12.

of suspected terrorists. But he says he would seek further

:04:13.:04:14.

advice before deciding whether to bring back techniques

:04:15.:04:16.

such as water-boarding. Speaking to the American ABC

:04:17.:04:18.

network, Mr Trump also repeated his pledge to make Mexico

:04:19.:04:21.

pay for a wall along its border It comes as Theresa May travels

:04:22.:04:24.

to the US to become the first world The NSPCC is demanding that it be

:04:25.:04:29.

made illegal for sports coaches to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds

:04:30.:04:37.

in their care. The charity points out that it's

:04:38.:04:42.

already illegal for teachers and social workers to have sex

:04:43.:04:44.

with 16 and 17-year-olds It also wants to tighten the rules

:04:45.:04:47.

around background checks, with the most stringent checks

:04:48.:04:52.

becoming compulsory for all coaches The Government will publish a Bill

:04:53.:04:54.

today to enable it to invoke Article 50 and trigger the process of the UK

:04:55.:05:07.

leaving the European Union. The Brexit Secretary David Davis

:05:08.:05:10.

says the Bill will be straightforward, although opposition

:05:11.:05:13.

parties will seek The Government was forced to draw up

:05:14.:05:14.

the legislation after losing That's a summary of

:05:15.:05:18.

the latest BBC News. Good morning. As we said earlier, it

:05:19.:05:36.

really is throwback Thursday. Venus and Serena Williams will meet in the

:05:37.:05:40.

final of the Australian open. 35-year-old Serena powering past her

:05:41.:05:47.

opponent 6-2, 6-1 in just 15 minutes. For the unseeded Croatian,

:05:48.:05:52.

it was the first Grand Slams Sehmi the 18 years, but it wasn't to be in

:05:53.:05:57.

the world number two. She will now attempt to win a record 23rd Grand

:05:58.:06:03.

Slam singles title. The woman standing in her way is her older

:06:04.:06:08.

sister, Venus. The 13th seed won a match in 13 sets -- in three sets to

:06:09.:06:14.

win her first major match since she beat Serena in 2009. Whenever I'm

:06:15.:06:21.

playing on the court with her, I mean, I'm playing like the best

:06:22.:06:24.

competitor in the game. I don't think I'm trying to change either,

:06:25.:06:29.

you know. I can compete, you know, against any odds. I'm going to do

:06:30.:06:35.

what I can to earn it. I'm not thinking about, oh, what can I do to

:06:36.:06:40.

win, I'm thinking, oh, what can I do to earn it? That's what I can tell

:06:41.:06:46.

you right now, I'm so excited. Roger Federer has established a two set

:06:47.:06:50.

lead against his Swiss compatriot Stan Wawrinka in his semifinal. He

:06:51.:06:55.

bids to win a fifth Australian open title. Wawrinka is one in the third

:06:56.:07:00.

in that one. A great day for Britain's Andy Lapthorne and partner

:07:01.:07:04.

David Wagner. They won the final against the Paralympic champions in

:07:05.:07:09.

straight sets. That was in the men's quads. Southampton have reached the

:07:10.:07:18.

first EFL Cup final since 1979 by beating Liverpool 1-0 at Anfield

:07:19.:07:21.

last night. A goal up from the first leg, Southampton did spend much of

:07:22.:07:24.

the match defending, before Shane Long booked his side's trip to

:07:25.:07:29.

Wembley in added time. Amazingly, Southampton have reached the final

:07:30.:07:32.

without conceding a single goal in the competition. They will face

:07:33.:07:37.

either Hull city or Manchester United, who play the match tonight.

:07:38.:07:42.

United have a lead in that one. We are used to see a white crane on the

:07:43.:07:47.

face of Usain Bolt, but he definitely won't be smiling this

:07:48.:07:50.

time -- a wide grin. He was disqualified because of his

:07:51.:07:57.

team-mate's doping violation at the Beijing games. They say his

:07:58.:08:03.

team-mate tested positive in a free analysis of samples from the 2008

:08:04.:08:07.

Olympics. They made up after the relay team. As a result, Jamaica

:08:08.:08:12.

have been stripped of their gold, meaning he can no longer claim to

:08:13.:08:16.

hold that famous treble - treble. He may get a repeal because Carter will

:08:17.:08:21.

appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. The winner of the

:08:22.:08:27.

downhill gold has now withdrawn from today's super G competition. She

:08:28.:08:30.

collided heavily with the crash barriers after she crossed the

:08:31.:08:34.

finish line when she won the downhill gold on the opening day of

:08:35.:08:38.

the world Para Alpine ski championships in Italy. That's all

:08:39.:08:42.

the sport for now. We will have the headlines at 10:30am. Thanks, Hugh.

:08:43.:08:46.

Over the past few months on this programme, we've brought

:08:47.:08:48.

you exclusive testimony from former footballers who allege

:08:49.:08:50.

they were sexually abused as young players at clubs across the country.

:08:51.:08:53.

Now it's emerged that it's not illegal for sports coaches to have

:08:54.:08:56.

sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care.

:08:57.:08:58.

The NSPCC is today demanding that loophole must be closed

:08:59.:09:03.

The charity also wants to tighten the rules around background checks.

:09:04.:09:19.

Wanting the most stringent check compulsory for all coaches

:09:20.:09:21.

Jim, people will be shocked it's not illegal for sports coaches to have

:09:22.:09:27.

sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care.

:09:28.:09:29.

Let's take you through how it works in this country at the moment.

:09:30.:09:39.

But it's also illegal for someone in authority to have sex

:09:40.:09:45.

But that only applies to certain roles and professions.

:09:46.:09:50.

So for example, a teacher, social worker, someone

:09:51.:09:52.

It's not across it is only in these named professions.

:09:53.:10:01.

So it would then be illegal for a football coach to have sex,

:10:02.:10:09.

even consensual sex, with anyone under the age of 18.

:10:10.:10:11.

The NSPCC says that should also apply to other roles -

:10:12.:10:15.

And there's a second change asked for as well?

:10:16.:10:20.

So this is to do with background checks which show whether someone

:10:21.:10:25.

has a criminal record or has been banned from working with children.

:10:26.:10:28.

If you or a football club, you can have a background check. That should

:10:29.:10:37.

tell you, does this person have a criminal record? Are they barred

:10:38.:10:39.

from working with children even if they don't have a criminal record?

:10:40.:10:41.

In 2012, the Government relaxed the rule on this.

:10:42.:10:44.

So as things stand, it's now in fact against the law for a local football

:10:45.:10:48.

club to get the most stringent or enhanced check unless that coach

:10:49.:10:51.

is working on their own with kids on a regular basis.

:10:52.:10:57.

They have to be working unsupervised on a regular basis.

:10:58.:11:01.

The NSPCC now thinks the Government has gone too far.

:11:02.:11:04.

They want to look into assistant coaches and assistant managers who

:11:05.:11:10.

might not be unsupervised, but do have a lot of contact with kids.

:11:11.:11:15.

They want that loophole closed so it is compulsory for everybody.

:11:16.:11:22.

One person this morning called this "drivel that will make

:11:23.:11:28.

Their argument is that this is really tinkering around

:11:29.:11:32.

the edges, and they want a much tougher form of child protection.

:11:33.:11:34.

One idea is Mandatory Reporting, which we've spoken about

:11:35.:11:37.

The Goverment's consulting on that measure at the moment.

:11:38.:11:40.

Now, that would mean if you are working for a football

:11:41.:11:42.

club and you have a reasonable suspicion that abuse is going on,

:11:43.:11:45.

And the argument is that would change the culture

:11:46.:11:49.

It would be against the law to not report it. That is not the case in

:11:50.:12:02.

this country at the moment, whereas it is in other countries like

:12:03.:12:03.

Australia. Ian Ackley was the victim of abuse

:12:04.:12:05.

in the 80s by a football coach. He is now one of the people speaking

:12:06.:12:08.

to the FA about child safety. This takes a shift

:12:09.:12:13.

in attitude of people. You can put all the legislation

:12:14.:12:17.

in place that you want to, but unless the attitudes

:12:18.:12:23.

of people and organisations shift dramatically, we are going to be

:12:24.:12:26.

stuck with all the same barriers And what we need to do is make this

:12:27.:12:29.

effective to protect all children What does the Government say? It

:12:30.:12:43.

says it has written to all of sport's governing bodies late last

:12:44.:12:47.

year to make the child protection policies as strong as possible.

:12:48.:12:48.

Thanks, Jim. We can speak to the NSPCC's

:12:49.:12:51.

Lisa McCrindle, who wants the law to be changed,

:12:52.:12:57.

father of two sport playing kids and Chair of Culture,

:12:58.:13:02.

Media and Sport Committee Damian Collins MP, Andy Wilby,

:13:03.:13:05.

who was abused by his gym coach at 14 years old and has

:13:06.:13:10.

waived his right to anonymity, Lisa, protection in sport ends at

:13:11.:13:25.

16? What currently happens is around those individuals having

:13:26.:13:27.

relationships with 16 and 17-year-olds, what we want to make

:13:28.:13:31.

sure that is the same protections are in place are extended to those

:13:32.:13:35.

working regularly with children who are also able to establish those

:13:36.:13:38.

relationships and potentially abuse them. Because a predator working

:13:39.:13:45.

with kids, even with another adult are, can still target children?

:13:46.:13:50.

Absolutely. In relation to the 16 and 17-year-olds, extension of the

:13:51.:13:53.

existing laws we think it should be covering a wider group of people, to

:13:54.:13:58.

protect those young people developing intense relationships in

:13:59.:14:01.

sporting and training relationships, they will have intense

:14:02.:14:04.

relationships, a position of trust which can be abused. Just as weak

:14:05.:14:09.

spectators not to do that, we should be applying that two other -- just

:14:10.:14:14.

as teachers are not expected to do that. Did you know that legally

:14:15.:14:18.

sports coaches could have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in the care?

:14:19.:14:24.

Well, Victoria, I was shocked to hear that, too, because I think it

:14:25.:14:28.

is wrong. I think anybody looking at that would say that this is clearly

:14:29.:14:33.

a massive loophole that needs to be closed down. It is entirely

:14:34.:14:36.

inappropriate for coaches to have sexual contact with people as young

:14:37.:14:39.

as 16 and 17 years old. Are you going to close it down then? I will

:14:40.:14:45.

certainly raise this with the Government. I think this should be

:14:46.:14:50.

looked at, and if it acquires a change in legislation we should do

:14:51.:14:55.

that. And criminal checks, which the NSPCC is also calling for to be

:14:56.:15:00.

tightened today, before 2012-13 there was a process in which an

:15:01.:15:04.

adult who was working regularly with children in the presence of another

:15:05.:15:10.

adult could be checked. You and the Lib Dems relaxed that, you stopped

:15:11.:15:15.

that. Was that a mistake? I think we have to be careful with this.

:15:16.:15:21.

Because I see with my own children involved in grassroots sport, a lot

:15:22.:15:26.

of grassroots sport is delivered by parents, you know, working as

:15:27.:15:30.

coaches and supporting coaches. At that grassroots level, where

:15:31.:15:34.

actually the access to the children is fully supervised, often by

:15:35.:15:38.

multiple adults, in an environment like that, would it be necessary? I

:15:39.:15:42.

think that environment is very different from the sort of

:15:43.:15:45.

environment where we have had this debate and, you know, all. Or is you

:15:46.:15:49.

have had on your programme about abuse in sport, younger people who

:15:50.:15:53.

are part of formal academies and clubs. I think the coaches working

:15:54.:15:57.

in the environment like that, where unsupervised access is more likely

:15:58.:16:01.

to occur, should have those checks in place. I think we need to look

:16:02.:16:04.

very carefully at the recommendation Yannis BCC has made and say,

:16:05.:16:09.

actually, should this be a statutory requirement or an obligation that is

:16:10.:16:12.

placed on the sports and the clubs to make sure that any coach who

:16:13.:16:19.

works for them who is likely or potentially could have unsupervised

:16:20.:16:19.

access is checked in this way. Do you accept that even if there are

:16:20.:16:30.

other adults around, a predator can groom children? As I say, when you

:16:31.:16:41.

look at real grassroots sports, and my eight-year-old son plays at the

:16:42.:16:45.

local rugby club, there is a family atmosphere, lots of parents and

:16:46.:16:49.

coaches around. The reality is that a lot of grassroots sport is

:16:50.:16:56.

delivered by volunteers and parents together working on weekend

:16:57.:17:00.

mornings. That is different from a more formal coaching relationship. I

:17:01.:17:07.

understand the point you're making. It is very different. On the

:17:08.:17:16.

question of bringing in legislation across the board, it will create a

:17:17.:17:20.

huge amount of bureaucracy for community and family run clubs,

:17:21.:17:24.

whereas actually what we want to do is target a structure that is

:17:25.:17:29.

slightly further up the football pyramid, where children are more

:17:30.:17:33.

intensively involved in sport, under the supervision of coaches and away

:17:34.:17:36.

from their families. I think all the proper checks should be done in that

:17:37.:17:41.

situation. Should that be enforced by the sport or does it require an

:17:42.:17:45.

across-the-board change to legislation, is the question. Let me

:17:46.:17:51.

bring in Andy. Thank you for talking to us. You were groomed and abused

:17:52.:17:56.

by your weight training course when you were 14 and it went on for 18

:17:57.:18:00.

months. I wonder if you can tell the audience what the impact has been on

:18:01.:18:08.

your life what you went through. It has been difficult, leading me to

:18:09.:18:13.

suburb with anxiety and depression. Drug and drink problems when I was

:18:14.:18:18.

younger. And it is quite difficult. My kids are getting involved with

:18:19.:18:21.

grassroots sport now, and it's quite difficult to trust that the same

:18:22.:18:26.

thing wouldn't happen to them at some point. What do you think of

:18:27.:18:30.

what the NSPCC is calling for today, for these, as they describe them,

:18:31.:18:38.

loopholes to be closed by the Government immediately? I completely

:18:39.:18:41.

agree. Anything that can protect children from what I have been

:18:42.:18:46.

through is nothing but a good thing, and the Government should be doing

:18:47.:18:49.

everything in their power to make sure children are not abused. Do you

:18:50.:18:55.

think that enhancing the checks on those who work with children could

:18:56.:19:00.

lead to fewer volunteers coming forward to help out with their kids'

:19:01.:19:06.

sports clubs? May be in the short-term, but I see it as a minor

:19:07.:19:10.

inconvenience when it comes to make King sure -- making sure our

:19:11.:19:19.

children are safe. You heard what David said - potentially it could be

:19:20.:19:22.

too bureaucratic and could put people off volunteering. What do you

:19:23.:19:28.

say? Those volunteers are already checked. That already happens, the

:19:29.:19:34.

enhanced check. We want to make sure that the most stringent check, a

:19:35.:19:37.

check against those who are barred from working with children, is

:19:38.:19:42.

included. At the moment, the legislation prohibits that. In

:19:43.:19:48.

response, we would be concerned. Most of the cases we have heard

:19:49.:19:53.

about recently, and the calls we get on our helpline, demonstrate that

:19:54.:19:56.

abuse doesn't have to take place when you are alone. It is

:19:57.:20:00.

facilitated with the relationships that are established with the child,

:20:01.:20:05.

and also with the family and carers. Because you've established that

:20:06.:20:08.

relationship, the abuse can then take place in other settings because

:20:09.:20:13.

the trust is enabled. This won't create additional bureaucracy

:20:14.:20:16.

because those individuals were already being checked. This is an

:20:17.:20:22.

opportunity to protect our children and ensure that the most stringent

:20:23.:20:29.

checks are undertaken on adults so we're not losing opportunities to

:20:30.:20:34.

make sure we are prohibiting those who are barred from working with

:20:35.:20:40.

children. And the, trusting other adults when your kids want to get

:20:41.:20:43.

involved in sport, do you find yourself stopping them doing things

:20:44.:20:47.

because of what you experienced as a teenager? -- Andy. The majority of

:20:48.:20:58.

people are not predators, and you do have to trust these things. I would

:20:59.:21:02.

be reluctant to leave them with anybody unsupervised. Thank you for

:21:03.:21:08.

coming on the programme. Damian Collins, thank you for joining us.

:21:09.:21:13.

And Lisa McCrindle from the NSPCC. We'll see what happens and report

:21:14.:21:15.

back for our audience. A record number of inmates killed

:21:16.:21:25.

themselves in prisons in England and Wales last year. We will be to

:21:26.:21:28.

someone who knows what it is like to be suicidal in prison.

:21:29.:21:31.

Donald Trump says torture works and "we have to

:21:32.:21:33.

In his first TV interview since becoming US President,

:21:34.:21:36.

he told ABC News that he will be consulting with his Defence

:21:37.:21:39.

Secretary and CIA Director over whether they should look

:21:40.:21:41.

at using water-boarding, which simulates drowning

:21:42.:21:42.

and is currently banned in the US, and other methods.

:21:43.:21:49.

Mr President, you told me during one of the debates that you would bring

:21:50.:21:52.

Yeah. And a hell of a lot worse.

:21:53.:21:55.

When they are shooting, when they are

:21:56.:22:02.

When they are chopping off the heads of people

:22:03.:22:06.

because they happen to be a Christian in the Middle East.

:22:07.:22:09.

When Isis is doing things that nobody has

:22:10.:22:11.

ever heard of since medieval times, would I feel strongly about

:22:12.:22:14.

As far as I'm concerned, we have to fight fire

:22:15.:22:17.

Now, with that being said, I'm going with General Mattis.

:22:18.:22:21.

I'm going with my secretary, because I think Mike Pompeo is going to be

:22:22.:22:30.

phenomenal. I am going to go with what they say. I spoke as recently

:22:31.:22:36.

24 hours ago with people at the highest level intelligence and asked

:22:37.:22:39.

them the question, does it work? Does torture work? The answer was

:22:40.:22:47.

yes, absolutely. You are now the president - do you want

:22:48.:22:51.

waterboarding? I don't want anyone to have their head chopped off in

:22:52.:22:54.

the Middle East because they are Christian or Muslim or anything

:22:55.:22:58.

else. Now they chop them off, put them on camera and send them all

:22:59.:23:01.

over the world. We have that and we are not allowed to do anything. We

:23:02.:23:06.

are not playing on an even field. I will say this: I will rely on Mike

:23:07.:23:14.

Pompeo, general matters and my group. If they want to do it, I will

:23:15.:23:20.

work toward that end. I will do what you are allowed to do within the

:23:21.:23:24.

bounds of legality. Do I feel it works? Absolutely, I feel it works.

:23:25.:23:31.

I have to bring you this breaking news. The Brexit secretary, David

:23:32.:23:36.

Davis, has told the Commons in reply to a question about Donald Trump's

:23:37.:23:43.

remarks on waterboarding colon the British Government's stance is

:23:44.:23:48.

playing. We don't condone it under any circumstances whatsoever. It

:23:49.:23:50.

will be interesting to see if Theresa May brings it up with Donald

:23:51.:23:52.

Trump when she meets him. Nigel Inkster is a former

:23:53.:23:55.

Director for Operations and Intelligence at MI6,

:23:56.:23:57.

and is now Director of Transnational Threats and Political Risk

:23:58.:23:59.

at the International Institute for Strategic Studies

:24:00.:24:01.

intelligence think-tank. And joining me from Londonderry

:24:02.:24:04.

is Moazzam Begg, a British citizen who was subject to torture and sent

:24:05.:24:08.

to Guantanamo Bay prison. Moazzam Begg, can you tell our

:24:09.:24:18.

audience what waterboarding involves, please? Yes, of course.

:24:19.:24:25.

Waterboarding is a technique first used in a Spanish prison. It means

:24:26.:24:33.

water torture, and it means a person is tied down, their hands, legs,

:24:34.:24:37.

head and arms, and water is poured into their mouths and their noses,

:24:38.:24:41.

and they get the sensation of feeling like they are drowning, even

:24:42.:24:51.

though when you go swimming, you can get water in your nose, imagine that

:24:52.:24:57.

for a sustained time. That is what waterboarding is. Japanese soldiers

:24:58.:25:02.

who did this during World War II to American soldiers were prosecuted

:25:03.:25:05.

for war crimes and were executed. So it is shocking that when the Bush

:25:06.:25:10.

administration came along and called it enhanced interrogation

:25:11.:25:22.

techniques, after his advisers said that if there was no organ failure

:25:23.:25:32.

it is not torture. President Obama said that the result of that torture

:25:33.:25:37.

had unintended consequences, such as invading Iraq. Can I ask, what type

:25:38.:25:42.

of torture have you been subjected to? IMing dairy and I have been

:25:43.:25:58.

talking to men here -- I am in Londonderry. I was put in stress

:25:59.:26:05.

positions, beating and torture, and psychological torture. The result of

:26:06.:26:11.

that was what? Did you then tell your interrogators some information

:26:12.:26:16.

that until then you had kept from them? Did you tell them what they

:26:17.:26:20.

thought they wanted to hear? What was the result of the torture? The

:26:21.:26:27.

result was that I sign a confession. The BBC made a film recently about

:26:28.:26:32.

that confession. It said I was a member of Al-Qaeda. There were

:26:33.:26:39.

threats to my family. The physical torture I enjoyed and underwent, and

:26:40.:26:43.

the threat of being sent to summary trial and being executed. Let me

:26:44.:26:51.

bring in Nigel, a former employee of MI6. The belief torture works? In

:26:52.:26:56.

one sense, you can say that maybe it does. Let's take an example... Is

:26:57.:27:02.

the information you get from torture reliable? That varies. Let's take

:27:03.:27:09.

the case of Argentina during the dirty war in the 1970s. How did the

:27:10.:27:15.

Argentine military crack their opposition? They torture them and

:27:16.:27:21.

once they got all the information they could, they threw them at the

:27:22.:27:24.

back of a Hercules over the South Atlantic. They did defeat the

:27:25.:27:28.

opposition, but at an awful cost in terms of the society, which still

:27:29.:27:35.

bears the scars. To say that torture works is a bit like saying that

:27:36.:27:40.

slavery works as a model of economic production. It is not the

:27:41.:27:43.

conversation we ought to be having. What do you think Donald Trump

:27:44.:27:51.

suggesting that waterboarding, the ban on waterboarding, may be

:27:52.:27:59.

reversed? He has cunningly qualified it by saying he would support the

:28:00.:28:02.

Director of the CIA and the Defence Secretary if they asked for it. I

:28:03.:28:09.

know James Matias by reputation. He is a thoughtful, educated man who

:28:10.:28:16.

took 6000 books with him to Iraq to read. I don't know Mike Pompeo but

:28:17.:28:21.

he comes across as intelligent and accomplished. I would be surprised

:28:22.:28:25.

if in the CIA the first thing they say to the incoming directories, we

:28:26.:28:33.

need get back to waterboarding. The way to deal with this problem of

:28:34.:28:40.

Isis and Al-Qaeda is not by using this sort of technique. In the case

:28:41.:28:48.

of Cally Sheikh Mohammed... The mastermind of the 911. This is a man

:28:49.:28:55.

who had information that was not available. What you really need is

:28:56.:29:01.

good, comprehensive intelligence, good forensics, forensics that

:29:02.:29:09.

enable you to identify and prosecute the perpetrators of specific

:29:10.:29:13.

terrorist attacks, and intelligence that is pre-empted. We are not so

:29:14.:29:17.

interested in what people were doing last week. The intelligence services

:29:18.:29:21.

need to know what they will be doing next week, and the best way to do

:29:22.:29:24.

that is to get agents on the inside and get across communication leaks.

:29:25.:29:32.

Moazzam Begg, if the ban is reversed in terms of torture methods in the

:29:33.:29:37.

United States, could that backfire in terms of propaganda material for

:29:38.:29:40.

members of Isis? You like two things quickly. First, yes, because you saw

:29:41.:29:48.

that Isis dresses victims in orange suits, and there were allegations

:29:49.:29:51.

that Isis members had waterboarded some of their captives. Second,

:29:52.:29:56.

let's look at the 2003 invasion of Iraq, which was based on the torture

:29:57.:30:05.

of a man who was a CIA DK knee held in Egypt, when he give a false

:30:06.:30:09.

confession that Al-Qaeda was working with Saddam Hussein on weapons of

:30:10.:30:14.

mass destruction. Colin Powell took that information to the UN Security

:30:15.:30:17.

Council to argue for war in Iraq, and the rest is history. As a result

:30:18.:30:26.

of that, we got Isis incrementally. Thank you for your time, Moazzam

:30:27.:30:28.

Begg, and Nigel Inkster. Deaths and incidences

:30:29.:30:37.

of self-harm and assault We'll be talking to a former

:30:38.:30:44.

prisoner who was suicidal when incarcerated,

:30:45.:30:48.

and the ex-offender We hear from the man known

:30:49.:30:49.

as "the Spielberg of video games", and get his vision

:30:50.:30:54.

of the future of gaming. With the news, here's Annita

:30:55.:31:00.

in the BBC Newsroom. New figures show that a record

:31:01.:31:03.

number of inmates killed themselves in prisons in England

:31:04.:31:08.

and Wales last year. The Ministry of Justice says

:31:09.:31:10.

there were 119 suicides - the highest number since records

:31:11.:31:13.

began in 1978. The number of self-harm

:31:14.:31:16.

incidents jumped by 23%, and assaults rose by 31%

:31:17.:31:18.

on the previous year. I'm very clear that the levels of

:31:19.:31:32.

violence in our prisons are too high. The levels of self harm are

:31:33.:31:37.

too high. Since I became Justice Secretary, I focused on dealing with

:31:38.:31:43.

this problem. That's why we're investing in extra ?100 million,

:31:44.:31:46.

2500 extra prison officers across the estate.

:31:47.:31:48.

Raffaele Sollecito, who was acquitted of Meredith Kercher's

:31:49.:31:50.

murder alongside Amanda Knox, has told this programme he still has

:31:51.:31:53.

a debt of more than 400,000 euros following the case.

:31:54.:31:55.

He said the maximum he can claim from the Italian government

:31:56.:31:58.

This is calculated by the number of days you spend in prison. But this

:31:59.:32:17.

ordeal didn't last only for four years, it lasted ten years. I was

:32:18.:32:19.

inside this nightmare the ten years. GDP figures, which measure national

:32:20.:32:22.

output, show the UK economy grew by 0.6% during the fourth quarter

:32:23.:32:24.

of last year. The figure is unchanged

:32:25.:32:26.

from the previous three months. Some economists had forecast

:32:27.:32:29.

a slow-down after the Brexit referendum, but strong consumer

:32:30.:32:31.

spending in the run-up to Christmas and expansion of the hotel

:32:32.:32:33.

and restaurant industries The US President Donald Trump says

:32:34.:32:35.

he believes that torture can work to get information out

:32:36.:32:39.

of suspected terrorists. Speaking to the American ABC

:32:40.:32:41.

network, he said he would seek further advice before deciding

:32:42.:32:44.

whether to bring back techniques But I have spoken as recently as 24

:32:45.:33:02.

hours ago with people at the highest level of intelligence, and I asked

:33:03.:33:07.

them the question, does it work? Does torture work? And the answer

:33:08.:33:10.

was, yes, absolutely. The NSPCC has told this programme it

:33:11.:33:14.

wants it to be made illegal for sports coaches to have sex

:33:15.:33:20.

with 16 and 17-year-olds In an exclusive interview,

:33:21.:33:22.

the charity pointed out it was already illegal for teachers

:33:23.:33:25.

and social workers to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds

:33:26.:33:29.

in their care. It's also calling for

:33:30.:33:31.

the rules around background checks to be tightened -

:33:32.:33:33.

with the most stringent checks becoming compulsory for all coaches

:33:34.:33:35.

working with children. That's a summary of the latest news,

:33:36.:33:40.

join me for BBC Newsroom live at 11am. Here is he with the latest

:33:41.:33:47.

sport. Good morning. It has been a big day for the Williams family.

:33:48.:33:53.

Venus and Serena both made the final at the Australian open. Venus took

:33:54.:33:56.

three sets to beat the fellow American and rich her first grand

:33:57.:34:03.

slam since 2009, when she beat her younger sister Serena. She reaches

:34:04.:34:08.

her 34th major final inside one hour. Meanwhile, Roger Federer leads

:34:09.:34:15.

by 2-1 against Swiss compatriot Stan Wawrinka. Wawrinka took the third

:34:16.:34:20.

set 6-1, things may be about to turn around. A break each so far in the

:34:21.:34:25.

fourth. Southampton boss has stretched the importance of playing

:34:26.:34:32.

in Europe. And Britain's Millie Knight, who won Bown Hill Gold in

:34:33.:34:39.

the world pal back Alpine ski championships -- the world Para

:34:40.:34:43.

Alpine ski championships will not compete today after injuring her

:34:44.:34:48.

leg. That's all the sport for now, I will be back after 11am.

:34:49.:34:58.

The Brexit Secretary David Davies is publishing a Bill today which will

:34:59.:35:05.

allow the Government to invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to

:35:06.:35:13.

begin the formal process of leaving the EU. Norman Smith is at

:35:14.:35:17.

Westminster. We are beginning to get a clearer idea of what Brexit will

:35:18.:35:21.

look like. It will get published shortly. This bill will kick-start

:35:22.:35:25.

the whole process. Later this morning, the Government will tell us

:35:26.:35:28.

how quickly they want it through the Commons. And in the next few days we

:35:29.:35:33.

expect to get this white paper setting out Mrs May's approach to

:35:34.:35:38.

negotiations. A good time to step back and see Mrs May is doing in

:35:39.:35:41.

delivering Brexit. Well, this week she may have been a bit down in the

:35:42.:35:49.

dumps. Because of firstly the judges, the Supreme Court ruling

:35:50.:35:53.

saying that MPs had to have a vote before we can begin the process to

:35:54.:35:58.

leave the EU, not what Mrs May wanted. And then we have the Brexit

:35:59.:36:03.

plan. She was forced to climb down over her opposition to a white

:36:04.:36:07.

paper, the paper setting out the Goverment's formal approach to the

:36:08.:36:12.

negotiations. Lastly, Tory rebels. The signs are there maybe 12, maybe

:36:13.:36:17.

up to 20 Tory MPs who are quite happy to cause her problems over

:36:18.:36:22.

Brexit, when she has only got a majority of around 16. On the other

:36:23.:36:25.

hand, she might be feeling quite glad that things are really going

:36:26.:36:31.

rather well. Why? Well, first off, Labour is split. Labour or at sixes

:36:32.:36:35.

and sevens over Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn hasn't managed to forge a

:36:36.:36:39.

united position for his party, and his MPs haven't really been able to

:36:40.:36:43.

say whether they are going to oppose Article 50 or support it, what their

:36:44.:36:50.

stance is on immigration. That is a pretty big plus for Mrs May. Then

:36:51.:36:52.

there are fears about peers. The House of Lords could cause all sort

:36:53.:36:56.

of trouble. But you sense that members of the House of Lords or a

:36:57.:36:59.

bit frightened. They don't want to do that because it would be

:37:00.:37:04.

unelected peers in effect spinning in the face of the referendum, and

:37:05.:37:09.

what people had voted for. Lastly, there's people power. Mrs May can

:37:10.:37:13.

keep coming back and saying, well, this is what the electorate voted

:37:14.:37:17.

for in the referendum. I have a mandate for delivering Brexit. One

:37:18.:37:24.

final thought, Victoria. We focus a lot on what happens in this place,

:37:25.:37:28.

but at the end of the day, whether Brexit is a success or not may

:37:29.:37:32.

depend just as much on what happens on the other side of the channel,

:37:33.:37:36.

what sort of deal the other 27 EU countries are prepared to cut us.

:37:37.:37:38.

Thank you very much, Norman. The Ministry of Justice has

:37:39.:37:45.

released its quarterly figures on prison statistics

:37:46.:37:47.

in England in Wales. They show that 119 prisoners

:37:48.:37:49.

took their own life last There were also record numbers of

:37:50.:37:56.

self harm incidents. What are some of the initiatives that put

:37:57.:38:02.

well-being over punishment? Alongside punishment, anyway. One of

:38:03.:38:07.

the most successful schemes is the Samaritans' listeners service, where

:38:08.:38:10.

prisoners are trained to provide emotional support by becoming

:38:11.:38:13.

listeners. Many prisoners say the power of peer led initiatives is

:38:14.:38:17.

that it gives the mutual respect and a purpose to talk things through

:38:18.:38:22.

with somebody who has been through it themselves. Let's talk to Michael

:38:23.:38:26.

Owen, he is in Belfast. He went to jail in 2007 for a drug trafficking

:38:27.:38:30.

offence. He says he felt like killing himself on a number of

:38:31.:38:37.

occasions until he was able to confidentially talk to a fellow

:38:38.:38:39.

inmate through one of these peer schemes. And we have got that man

:38:40.:38:45.

here, Mick Hall, who Michael says saved his life. Mikel to Michael and

:38:46.:38:49.

many others. For years on, they still write to each other and plan

:38:50.:38:53.

to meet up for a pint. Welcome, both of you. Also with us is Frances

:38:54.:38:59.

Crook, Chief Executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform. That beget

:39:00.:39:03.

your reaction, Francis, to the figures released this morning? It's

:39:04.:39:05.

a national scandal, and we should all be shocked. The suicide rate in

:39:06.:39:12.

prisons is ten times that in the community. Prisoners so why prisons

:39:13.:39:19.

or actually killing people. That shouldn't happen in our prisons.

:39:20.:39:23.

People should at least be safe. Too many men, women and teenagers take

:39:24.:39:27.

their own lives in prisons. That somebody every three days taking

:39:28.:39:31.

their own life, mostly by hanging, not always. So something has to be

:39:32.:39:35.

done to save lives. Of course, the other side to it is that people die

:39:36.:39:39.

from so-called natural causes, where perhaps they might have survived if

:39:40.:39:43.

they had been in the community. That is somebody dying from so-called

:39:44.:39:49.

natural causes every single in prison. Michael, when you went to

:39:50.:39:53.

jail in 2007, it was the first time this has happened to you. Tell us

:39:54.:39:58.

what led to you feeling suicidal? Well, first of all it was the actual

:39:59.:40:04.

thing, you lose hope, you have this feeling of hopelessness comes across

:40:05.:40:09.

you. And then you have so many different factors to deal with in

:40:10.:40:14.

prison, the pressures are really, really, really high. I mean, as

:40:15.:40:19.

Irving James once said, people will never understand the strength and

:40:20.:40:23.

courage it takes to get through imprisonment. It could be anything

:40:24.:40:27.

that triggers this. At that time, whenever I met Nick, I had just been

:40:28.:40:31.

sentenced. My father wasn't very well. And I was in a certain bit of

:40:32.:40:37.

trouble with some of the officers on the wing. And I just had this

:40:38.:40:40.

overwhelming feeling of hopelessness. And there was no way

:40:41.:40:46.

out. And I was standing, leaning on the landing one date with sort of my

:40:47.:40:50.

head in my hands, and mix just came over and said, are you a cake, big

:40:51.:40:54.

lad? And I said, I'm not, actually. We went to had a cup of tea and we

:40:55.:40:59.

took it from that. Mix, from your point of view? Yes, when people

:41:00.:41:06.

first come to prison, it's not how you see on the telly. On the news

:41:07.:41:16.

programmes, and in dramas. And the way of dealing with things in

:41:17.:41:22.

everyday life is totally different. And you're not really taught this.

:41:23.:41:28.

They have, they have induction processes that you go through. But

:41:29.:41:35.

even that isn't real life situations. And, you know, the

:41:36.:41:38.

prison officers haven't got time to cope with what's happening to each

:41:39.:41:43.

individual prisoner outside of life. How did you help Michael? Well,

:41:44.:41:51.

talking, basically. Helping the sort of come EU no, he didn't have any

:41:52.:41:56.

specific problems, I think he had just more or less started to be a

:41:57.:42:01.

friend. I've probably got a weird sense of humour, so I might have

:42:02.:42:06.

cracked a few jokes to break the ice. He is smiling at you saying

:42:07.:42:12.

that! We just went on to become friends. There were things may be

:42:13.:42:16.

that he didn't understand about how to organise things, and papped I was

:42:17.:42:21.

able to help him with that. -- perhaps I was able to help. Michael,

:42:22.:42:25.

he says perhaps he was able to help, how would you describe it was Greg

:42:26.:42:33.

-- how would you describe it? Present-day structures you, and you

:42:34.:42:38.

lose your identity as a person, your identity as a man -- prison the

:42:39.:42:42.

structures you. I didn't know how to deal with myself, and Mikel to me do

:42:43.:42:47.

that. We started doing a writing course and working on the prison

:42:48.:42:51.

radio together. I was lucky enough whenever I ended up back in Northern

:42:52.:42:55.

Ireland I became a listener myself, I was able to pass on the knowledge

:42:56.:42:59.

on the experiences that Mike had taught me. Because I've lived

:43:00.:43:04.

through it and I'd walked the walk of these experiences, I was able to

:43:05.:43:08.

help other people. And it was so rewarding and it gave me a sense of

:43:09.:43:12.

purpose. I'd just like to take this opportunity in public just to say

:43:13.:43:15.

thanks, mate, you know, you turned my life around, you know. Cheers,

:43:16.:43:20.

mate. There's not a lot we can say about that, is the? It's real, and

:43:21.:43:31.

special, you know. This is the first time we've sort of really spoken

:43:32.:43:37.

about it. Our only conversations and our friendship doesn't really come,

:43:38.:43:43.

from my point of view, from saving lives or anything, you know, so,

:43:44.:43:47.

thanks very much for that. It's all right. Of course, there will be some

:43:48.:43:54.

people who say, if you don't want to go through the prison system then

:43:55.:43:56.

don't do that crime in the first play. -- in the first place. Why

:43:57.:44:02.

should people have sympathy for inmates who are having a bad time?

:44:03.:44:08.

We could really get into a whole different field here. The old adage

:44:09.:44:14.

of any person in prison is innocent, there is an awful lot of people in

:44:15.:44:17.

prison that shouldn't be there, which is a different conversation

:44:18.:44:21.

maybe for a different day. What do you say to that, Francis? We don't

:44:22.:44:26.

send people to die, and yet that is exactly what is happening. And there

:44:27.:44:30.

are many, many people, many thousands of people who shouldn't be

:44:31.:44:33.

imprisoned. Many people who are sent there on remand by the courts who

:44:34.:44:40.

are found not guilty war who are not given a prison sentence. We've also

:44:41.:44:46.

had sentence inflation. 20 years ago we'd send somebody to prison for

:44:47.:44:48.

eight years, now we'd send them there for 15 or 20, and there is no

:44:49.:44:52.

evidence that that makes anybody safer. It takes away hope, it means

:44:53.:44:57.

that prisons are in a terrible overcrowded state, the rotten of

:44:58.:45:01.

staff. They are rat infested, people aren't getting enough food --

:45:02.:45:08.

they're not enough staff. We inspect a miracle to happen, but they fester

:45:09.:45:13.

more crime than they solve. We are creating huge problems for ourselves

:45:14.:45:17.

and people are dying as a result. Mix, tell us about person that you

:45:18.:45:23.

helped to save, effectively, by helping them fill out a form?

:45:24.:45:30.

This was a guy about my age. I was asked to speak to him one night

:45:31.:45:41.

because he wouldn't interact with anybody, not even the staff. He

:45:42.:45:44.

wouldn't come out for meals and things like that. They asked if I

:45:45.:45:49.

would speak to him to see if I could find out what the problem was. At

:45:50.:45:55.

first, he was very aggressive, in that he didn't want to speak to me

:45:56.:46:03.

or to be -- for me to be there. The prison was in lockdown. I said, I

:46:04.:46:07.

won't be able to go anywhere for a couple of hours, so I will just sit.

:46:08.:46:12.

After a while, we started talking. He wasn't getting any visit from his

:46:13.:46:19.

family, because the system says you have to fill in a form and ask

:46:20.:46:24.

permission for a visiting order, basically an application for the

:46:25.:46:27.

family to come and visit, but the family can't say, for instance,

:46:28.:46:32.

wildlife can say to me, I want to come and visit you. I have to send

:46:33.:46:37.

her a request and she filled it in. Because he couldn't read or write,

:46:38.:46:41.

he couldn't do that, so his family couldn't come to see him, he

:46:42.:46:49.

couldn't explain why. You were in a certain amount of money each week,

:46:50.:46:53.

you are given an allowance, and you have to put this on to a canteen

:46:54.:46:58.

list, and you can put so much money on the phone so you use the paper.

:46:59.:47:02.

He didn't know how to fill the forms in, so he couldn't even phone his

:47:03.:47:08.

family and explain his situation. He couldn't bring himself to tell

:47:09.:47:13.

anybody, so... He was embarrassed, as Shane? Yes. And he didn't want

:47:14.:47:21.

people to see this weakness in him. He eventually went on to read and

:47:22.:47:38.

write. What made me feel good was when I stood up a few months later,

:47:39.:47:42.

I was teaching the sky to read and write, and I heard him do a reading

:47:43.:47:47.

in church. Gosh, you will make me cry. Blimey! What is your message to

:47:48.:48:00.

Liz Truss? I had a good meeting with the Justice secretary yesterday, and

:48:01.:48:03.

I think she has plans in place to deal with some of the problems. She

:48:04.:48:07.

is recruiting more staff... It will take time. It will. Prison officers

:48:08.:48:12.

are not paid much and they are giving very little training, and it

:48:13.:48:18.

is a profession. Immediately, we have to get prison numbers down

:48:19.:48:22.

because there are not the staff to deal with them, and you can't ask

:48:23.:48:26.

other prisoners to do this. It is not their job. It is great that

:48:27.:48:30.

there are listeners supported by the Samaritans, but it ought to be

:48:31.:48:37.

staffed. The only solution is to get the numbers down. The Howwood league

:48:38.:48:41.

has suggested simple ways we can get those numbers down and change

:48:42.:48:47.

prisons so that they can serve a real purpose. Then when you have

:48:48.:48:50.

prisoners properly trained to help other prisoners, they will have the

:48:51.:48:55.

time and support to do it. Prisons can work, but they are really not at

:48:56.:49:04.

the moment. I have this breakdown of the numbers and which prisons have

:49:05.:49:13.

the highest number of self-inflicted deaths. Woodhill jail near Milton

:49:14.:49:18.

Keynes, with seven people. And it is 18 in the last four years. And seven

:49:19.:49:23.

in one year. And it is relatively new. The Government is building lots

:49:24.:49:31.

of new prisons, but they don't themselves solve the problem. New

:49:32.:49:35.

buildings aren't the answer. It is not the buildings that are the

:49:36.:49:39.

problem, it's the overcrowding in the system. The system is in crisis

:49:40.:49:43.

because it is crumbling. Thank you very much. Thank you for talking to

:49:44.:49:53.

us, really appreciate it. Mike, it is so good to hear you and make

:49:54.:50:03.

talking to each other. -- you and Mick.

:50:04.:50:06.

Let's remind you of those figures that we broke earlier on Britain's

:50:07.:50:09.

recent economic performance - the economy grew by 0.6%

:50:10.:50:12.

in the final three months of last year and by 2% over 2016,

:50:13.:50:15.

that's according to figures just released by the Office

:50:16.:50:17.

Economists had forecast a slow-down after the Brexit referendum.

:50:18.:50:22.

In the last few minutes, the Chancellor Philip Hammond

:50:23.:50:24.

The figures today, which are very good, show the resilience of the UK

:50:25.:50:36.

economy, and they pointed a bright future we have as we go into this

:50:37.:50:41.

period of negotiation with the European Union based on the very

:50:42.:50:43.

clear agenda that the Prime Minister set out last week.

:50:44.:50:50.

Next we're talking about the man described by some as the Spielberg

:50:51.:50:53.

Hideo Kojima is the brains behind the top-selling Metal Gear series

:50:54.:50:59.

that inspired a style of game that many of today's bestselling

:51:00.:51:01.

Radio 1 Newsbeat reporter Steffan Powell has been given rare

:51:02.:51:05.

behind the scenes access to his new studio in Tokyo,

:51:06.:51:08.

where Mr Kojima is planning on changing the industry once again.

:51:09.:51:16.

Once again. He is not one to rest on his laurels, Hideo Kojima. People

:51:17.:51:22.

may be don't know who he is, but 30 years ago, games were all about

:51:23.:51:29.

fighting people, then he came along and made one about sneaking around

:51:30.:51:33.

instead. Since then, through lots of innovation and lots of ideas since,

:51:34.:51:36.

that basic principle has been replicated time and again ever

:51:37.:51:43.

since. He has won pretty much every major lifetime achievement award in

:51:44.:51:48.

gaming. When he speaks, the industry listens, so we were lucky to have a

:51:49.:51:54.

tour and him talking us through some of the significant places in his

:51:55.:51:58.

recent history. What did he say about his future, the future? Anyone

:51:59.:52:04.

who plays games, their future. If you are sat at home watching Downton

:52:05.:52:11.

Abbey, he wants to have this in place where you can stop watching

:52:12.:52:16.

and start playing it and vice versa, if you could be playing a game...

:52:17.:52:21.

Playing a Downton Abbey game? You like it is more than that, it is an

:52:22.:52:25.

experience merged into one. Instead of me explaining it, here is what

:52:26.:52:27.

the man himself said. TRANSLATION: Things such as games,

:52:28.:52:29.

music, novels and movies, and all these things will kind

:52:30.:52:31.

of mesh together into one As you can see, he is talking about

:52:32.:52:45.

the idea where things are merging together. He is working on a big

:52:46.:52:49.

secret game that we don't know much about. He is suggesting that this

:52:50.:52:54.

sort of thing will already be coming when that one is released in the

:52:55.:52:56.

next couple of years. Healy is explaining that.

:52:57.:53:00.

TRANSLATION: We want this game to be something that people can

:53:01.:53:02.

get into very easily, but after they play it

:53:03.:53:04.

for about an hour or two, they start to notice something

:53:05.:53:07.

It's something that they haven't played before.

:53:08.:53:13.

The idea is that the industry change will happen soon. You could be sat

:53:14.:53:21.

at home playing a move me -- a movie or watching a game.

:53:22.:53:24.

Elle Osili-Wood is in Brisbane and Helen Gould is in London,

:53:25.:53:27.

I'm Ellie Gould. Sorry! Where is Helen? In London! My fault. He is a

:53:28.:54:02.

rock star in the gaming world, this guy, fill us in another five. I

:54:03.:54:08.

interviewed him on stage at a big gaming event at Earls Court a few

:54:09.:54:11.

years ago and it was like Madonna had arrived. He has people there and

:54:12.:54:16.

the gamers get very excited. He really is a rock star of games.

:54:17.:54:21.

Years arguably a genius. He created one of the most popular franchises

:54:22.:54:25.

in gaming history, and one of the most innovative, Metal Gear Solid,

:54:26.:54:31.

with an amazing plot, characters and ideas. He is responsible for

:54:32.:54:37.

landmark innovations in video games. What do you want the future to hold

:54:38.:54:45.

in terms of video gaming? We're looking for games to improve. There

:54:46.:54:54.

are some fast big games at the moment that are really immersive,

:54:55.:55:03.

which focus on storytelling through music and graphics, and I think that

:55:04.:55:06.

is what will really stand out when we think of games as a medium, as an

:55:07.:55:14.

artform. It will have to be a fantastic, immersive experience.

:55:15.:55:18.

Helen, he talked about the limitations of virtual reality,

:55:19.:55:21.

didn't he? Do you agree with what he had to say? At the moment, I would

:55:22.:55:26.

say I have too, because at the minute, it is very difficult for

:55:27.:55:31.

developers to make virtual reality games that have a continuous

:55:32.:55:36.

narrative. A lot of the stuff that is out there is based on getting the

:55:37.:55:41.

player used to this strange new reality they are in and working out,

:55:42.:55:45.

my hand is here, this is what I have to do. I don't know if there has

:55:46.:55:49.

been any long immersive things in the way that L was saying. I think

:55:50.:56:05.

it would be interesting to see virtual reality go that way, but it

:56:06.:56:11.

has a long way to go. Do you agree? Yes, for me, it is a bit like a

:56:12.:56:16.

roller-coaster. It is amazing experience, a real novelty. It is

:56:17.:56:20.

great for about four minutes. After that, at the moment, you want to get

:56:21.:56:24.

off and you probably feel a bit sick. The challenge is to create

:56:25.:56:30.

something that is actually a game and not a novelty, a world you want

:56:31.:56:39.

to be in. You want to follow a story, a narrative arc. It is about

:56:40.:56:43.

the sustainability of the narrative, for sure. He has come under fire for

:56:44.:56:51.

his portrayal of women in games - do you sense he is trying to address

:56:52.:56:57.

that? I hope so. Definitely, it's fair to say that Metal Gear has lots

:56:58.:57:08.

of girls with big boots and so forth. All the big studios thought,

:57:09.:57:19.

what we need for the teenage boys is half naked women. He is a huge

:57:20.:57:24.

industry figure and there is huge excitement about his next project,

:57:25.:57:29.

so I hope he uses his platform to have an in -- a more inclusive and

:57:30.:57:36.

empowered version of women. People ask about gender issues in gaming -

:57:37.:57:40.

is it still an issue? You like it is, like an awful lot of things. It

:57:41.:57:48.

is changing, and changing because more women are making games, and

:57:49.:57:52.

because more men making games are taking the issues more seriously,

:57:53.:57:55.

and their responsibility more seriously, and hopefully we will see

:57:56.:58:02.

a shift. When? Tomorrow at about 4:30pm! Thank you.

:58:03.:58:07.

Victoria Derbyshire speaks to Raffaele Sollecito, who is seeking compensation after clearing his name in the Meredith Kercher murder case.

The NSPCC calls for a 'loophole' that allows sports coaches to legally have sex with 16- and 17-year-olds in their care to be closed.

And the 'Spielberg of Gaming', Hideo Kojima, gives a rare interview about virtual reality.