30/03/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


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30/03/2017

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Hello it's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:07.:00:09.

Taking back powers from Europe; we'll ask which European laws

:00:10.:00:13.

will the Government keep after Brexit, which ones will go,

:00:14.:00:15.

And as the insurance market, Lloyds of London, says it's setting

:00:16.:00:21.

up a base in Brussels, we'll ask if more big

:00:22.:00:24.

Also this morning, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge

:00:25.:00:28.

and Prince Harry release a series of films of celebrities

:00:29.:00:38.

Here in Westminster, we'll discuss the great repeal bill.

:00:39.:00:43.

Also this morning, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge

:00:44.:00:46.

and Prince Harry release a series of films of celebrities

:00:47.:00:50.

talking about mental health for their Heads Together campaign.

:00:51.:00:53.

If I start talking about problems, one, the people who followed me

:00:54.:00:59.

through my career, they're going to turn their backs on me because they

:01:00.:01:02.

think I'm one thing, everyone's going to think of me differently.

:01:03.:01:07.

Did that happen? No, it was the complete opposite!

:01:08.:01:08.

The campaign urges people to open up to a friend or colleague; we'll

:01:09.:01:12.

speak to people who've done exactly that.

:01:13.:01:14.

And, as new guidelines on sugar in food are published we'll talk

:01:15.:01:17.

to industry insiders about how manufacturers are juggling

:01:18.:01:19.

the pressure to make products more healthy without losing sales.

:01:20.:01:31.

Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

:01:32.:01:35.

Imagine you finally get a statue, and it looks like that!

:01:36.:01:46.

It's a new statue of Cristiano Ronaldo which has been

:01:47.:01:49.

unveiled on the Portuguese island of Madeira.

:01:50.:01:51.

He's putting a brave face on it, but if you were him,

:01:52.:01:54.

His fans on social media have been less than complimentary!

:01:55.:02:02.

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

:02:03.:02:07.

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

:02:08.:02:11.

According to the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, and Prince Harry, they

:02:12.:02:20.

believe we are at a tipping point when it comes to talking about

:02:21.:02:23.

mental health. Do you think the stigma is finally being broken down

:02:24.:02:28.

or not, let me know. We'll talk a lot about it after 9. 30.

:02:29.:02:31.

Plans to repatriate powers from the European Union will be

:02:32.:02:37.

published today in a draft of what's known as The Great Repeal Bill.

:02:38.:02:40.

Having formally triggered Brexit, ministers are promising

:02:41.:02:42.

a smooth transition, with the incorporation

:02:43.:02:46.

of thousands of pieces of EU law into UK legislation.

:02:47.:02:49.

But this morning the insurance market, Lloyds of London,

:02:50.:02:52.

said it's setting up a base in Brussels - to maintain a presence

:02:53.:02:57.

Our political correspondent, Eleanor Garnier, reports.

:02:58.:03:08.

Cometh the hour, cometh the moment, in Westminster, Belfast,

:03:09.:03:12.

Edinburgh and Cardiff - the exact moment the UK took

:03:13.:03:15.

This is an historic moment from which there is no turning back.

:03:16.:03:22.

The letter, hand-delivered by our man in Brussels, telling

:03:23.:03:25.

Written in a deliberately conciliatory tone.

:03:26.:03:31.

But a hint, too, of the steel in Mrs May's stance.

:03:32.:03:33.

No overt threat to walk away, but a serious warning,

:03:34.:03:36.

as she wrote "a failure to reach an agreement would mean our

:03:37.:03:41.

cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism

:03:42.:03:42.

We must therefore work hard to avoid that outcome."

:03:43.:03:48.

A sentence that certainly raised eyebrows, here,

:03:49.:03:52.

But despite all the difficulties, Mrs May promised our relationship

:03:53.:03:58.

with the rest of the continent will be just as good after Brexit.

:03:59.:04:05.

What we are both looking for is that comprehensive trade agreement,

:04:06.:04:09.

which gives that ability to trade freely into the European

:04:10.:04:12.

And for them, and for them to trade with us.

:04:13.:04:17.

It would be a different relationship, but I think it can

:04:18.:04:19.

have the same benefits in terms of that free access to trade.

:04:20.:04:31.

Labour insisted it would hold the government

:04:32.:04:35.

More than ever, Britain needs a government that will deliver

:04:36.:04:40.

for the whole country, not just the few.

:04:41.:04:43.

And that is the ultimate test of the Brexit deal

:04:44.:04:45.

that the Prime Minister must now secure.

:04:46.:04:47.

Two years to untangle a 40-year relationship,

:04:48.:04:52.

to unpick all the interwoven regulations and legislation.

:04:53.:04:54.

That task starts today, with more detail from the government

:04:55.:04:57.

on how it plans to bring EU powers back to Westminster.

:04:58.:04:59.

Eleanor Garnier, BBC News, Westminster.

:05:00.:05:01.

Our Political Guru Norman Smith is in Westminster.

:05:02.:05:06.

Why are Lloyds of London setting up a base in Brussels? To keep their

:05:07.:05:12.

options open like a lot of big financial institutions. They want to

:05:13.:05:16.

see how the negotiations pan out. The real concern is that the sort of

:05:17.:05:19.

deal they have at the moment where we have so-called passporting rites

:05:20.:05:23.

which basically means they can sell their services across the EU with no

:05:24.:05:27.

additional complications, administrative burdens and so on,

:05:28.:05:36.

that might go out the window and any new EU deal, for that it could mean

:05:37.:05:43.

a massive headache. So new bases are being set up in Europe in case

:05:44.:05:47.

things go spectacularly wrong. It chimes with what we know is a good

:05:48.:05:51.

deal of nervousness in the City about how all this might shape up.

:05:52.:05:58.

JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, they may possibly have to redeploy thousands

:05:59.:06:04.

of people in the EU rather than keeping them in Britain. One thing

:06:05.:06:10.

to say in the letter yesterday which Mrs May sent to the President of the

:06:11.:06:15.

European Council, Don add tusk, she specifically talks about the

:06:16.:06:17.

financial sector and what she referred to as network industries --

:06:18.:06:23.

Donald Tusk. They seem to be moving towards a special deal for the City

:06:24.:06:27.

and other key industries to make sure that they are not too damaged

:06:28.:06:31.

or hurt and there's not too much change following Brexit. And this

:06:32.:06:38.

job of importing thousands and thousands of EU laws, enshrining

:06:39.:06:41.

them in British law, that is massive isn't it? It's huge. I kind of think

:06:42.:06:47.

of it about being dropped in the Borneo jungle and having to hack

:06:48.:06:54.

your way through lots of legislative paperwork. We have got 40 years, 40

:06:55.:07:00.

years! 40 years of EU rules and regulations which we have got to

:07:01.:07:03.

translate basically into British law. I heard someone say it was

:07:04.:07:07.

something like 80,000 different pieces of legislation. That is

:07:08.:07:11.

colossal. What does that mean? There's not going to be much time

:07:12.:07:15.

for the Government to do anything else but Brexit. Interestingly, we

:07:16.:07:18.

heard from the man who was going to be in charge of procedure in the

:07:19.:07:22.

Commons, the clerk of the Commons, this morning say, this won't take

:07:23.:07:26.

two years, it could go on for a decade, in other words, for many,

:07:27.:07:30.

many years after we have even left the European Union.

:07:31.:07:44.

Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:07:45.:07:46.

A privately-owned helicopter with five people on board has

:07:47.:07:51.

The aircraft is believed to have been travelling

:07:52.:07:56.

from Milton Keynes to Dublin, via Caernarfon Bay.

:07:57.:07:58.

A land search is underway but the aerial search had to be

:07:59.:08:01.

The weather conditions have not improved and the coastguard can't

:08:02.:08:09.

continue the search until the weather does improve. The aircraft

:08:10.:08:13.

is privately owned. There were five individuals on board. It was

:08:14.:08:18.

destined to arrive in Dublin but it left Milton Keynes yesterday morning

:08:19.:08:22.

shortly before midday. It was due to stop here at can air van Airport. It

:08:23.:08:29.

did not arrive. Communications were lost. It went missing from the

:08:30.:08:37.

radar. The coastguard was alerted immediately -- Caernarfon. The

:08:38.:08:42.

operation yesterday involved two coastguard helicopters that searched

:08:43.:08:45.

across North Wales right through to Dublin via land and sea, and

:08:46.:08:49.

unfortunately, due to the weather conditions, that had to be called

:08:50.:08:53.

off late last night. Now, the search operation was continued on land by

:08:54.:08:57.

North Wales police. They've introduced Mountain Rescue Teams, to

:08:58.:09:00.

seem the land, and that is continuing this morning. We don't

:09:01.:09:06.

know a great deal about these five individuals, we know that it was a

:09:07.:09:10.

red helicopter. Members of the public have been asked to dial 999

:09:11.:09:16.

if they saw that helicopter at any point yesterday afternoon in the

:09:17.:09:20.

area. Now, the search should be continuing this morning. Time is of

:09:21.:09:24.

the essence. The coastguard will not allow that search to resume unless

:09:25.:09:28.

these weather conditions improve significantly in the next few hours.

:09:29.:09:34.

New guidelines for the amount of sugar that should be in everyday

:09:35.:09:37.

foods from breakfast cereals to chocolate bars have been

:09:38.:09:39.

The aim is to cut the amount of sugar children consume by 20%

:09:40.:09:44.

Our Health Correspondent, Jane Dreaper has the details.

:09:45.:09:56.

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry have released

:09:57.:09:58.

a series of films as part of their Heads Together campaign

:09:59.:10:01.

designed to encourage people to talk about mental health.

:10:02.:10:04.

The project aims to help end the stigma around mental health.

:10:05.:10:08.

The former England cricket captain Andrew Flintoff

:10:09.:10:10.

and the rapper Professor Green, were among the celebrities who've

:10:11.:10:12.

The hardest thing for me was initially talking. We don't talk,

:10:13.:10:21.

I'm from the north of England, a working class family, we don't talk

:10:22.:10:24.

about our feelings. It was no different for me growing up in a

:10:25.:10:28.

council estate in East London, it was not something you spoke about.

:10:29.:10:31.

And Victoria will be speaking to some of the people

:10:32.:10:33.

featured in the new campaign in a few minutes time.

:10:34.:10:38.

There's been a big increase in the number of cases of child

:10:39.:10:41.

sexual exploitation in Greater Manchester.

:10:42.:10:43.

A report by the Stockport MP, Ann Coffey, says more

:10:44.:10:46.

than 1700 children have been identified some of them victims,

:10:47.:10:49.

The figure is four times higher than when the last report

:10:50.:10:54.

A federal judge in the US state of Hawaii has extended

:10:55.:10:58.

the suspension of President Trump's travel ban for an indefinite period.

:10:59.:11:02.

It means Mr Trump will be barred from enforcing his revised ban

:11:03.:11:05.

on six mostly Muslim states while it is contested in court.

:11:06.:11:10.

Organisers of the Oscars say they will continue to work

:11:11.:11:14.

with the accountancy firm, PwC, despite the mistake which led

:11:15.:11:17.

to "La La Land" being wrongly announced as the winner

:11:18.:11:20.

of Best Picture, instead of Moonlight.

:11:21.:11:23.

This is the moment Hollywood realised someone hadn't

:11:24.:11:26.

followed the script at the ceremony last month.

:11:27.:11:29.

To make sure a similar mistake doesn't happen next year,

:11:30.:11:32.

there will be an extra accountant on hand, and electronic devices

:11:33.:11:34.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 9.30.

:11:35.:11:44.

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:11:45.:11:48.

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

:11:49.:11:52.

We'd be really interested if you could share with us the first

:11:53.:12:04.

conversation you had with us when realising you had problems. Let me

:12:05.:12:10.

know about the very first conversation you had and we'll share

:12:11.:12:13.

those with the nation this morning if that's OK with you. You don't

:12:14.:12:17.

have to give me your name if you don't want to, it's fine if you

:12:18.:12:19.

prefer to be anonymous. Sport now with Jess. Jo Pavey gets

:12:20.:12:36.

the medal she's been craving? Yes, and sadly it comes ten years after

:12:37.:12:42.

the fact. This centred around the 2007 World Championships when the

:12:43.:12:46.

distance runner finished fourth but because the Turkish athlete that

:12:47.:12:52.

finished third in the bronze position was found to have failed a

:12:53.:12:57.

drugs test in competition, retrospectively after her sample was

:12:58.:13:02.

retested, so that means Pavey has been upgraded to the bronze medal.

:13:03.:13:07.

You see her after that race, she was exhausted. She crossed the line in

:13:08.:13:12.

fourth. She was flat on her back and felt she'd let everyone down because

:13:13.:13:19.

she was out of the medals. Pavey says that athletes who're found to

:13:20.:13:21.

have doped should have all the results wiped from the records and

:13:22.:13:26.

that would be the biggest deterrent against doping. From that

:13:27.:13:31.

experience, Pavey has admitted that she changed her race tactics. What

:13:32.:13:35.

was to be the biggest result of her career she says is now bitter sweet

:13:36.:13:39.

because she missed out on her moment on the podium.

:13:40.:13:47.

Football transfer speculation around, including about Arsenal's

:13:48.:13:50.

Alexi Sanchez? Yes, interesting quotes coming from the Arsenal star

:13:51.:13:54.

who's been speaking at an event in Chile. He says he's happy in London,

:13:55.:13:58.

he hopes to finish his contract at Arsenal, but he wants to be with a

:13:59.:14:02.

team that has winning mentality. Now, if you take a lack at Arsenal's

:14:03.:14:06.

form, it's not very good at the moment. They've fallen down to sixth

:14:07.:14:11.

in the Premier League, four defeats in the last five games. Not sure

:14:12.:14:14.

that suggests they have a winning mentality at the moment, so they may

:14:15.:14:18.

well struggle to hold on to the top goal-scorer. We know Sanchez's

:14:19.:14:23.

contract negotiations are on hold until the summer. Interestingly,

:14:24.:14:26.

Arsene Wenger has a press conference this morning so we may well get an

:14:27.:14:31.

update on that or at least some reaction to what Sanchez as said.

:14:32.:14:37.

Also reaction to Arsene Wenger's future. He said he knows what he

:14:38.:14:40.

wants to do about his future, we are waiting for him to tell us what it

:14:41.:14:44.

is. An update on that later this morning. And this statue of

:14:45.:14:50.

Cristiano Ronaldo, the reaction continues to give us food for

:14:51.:14:57.

thought? It's been funny on social media. How many people get an

:14:58.:15:02.

airport named after them. But that's not what's causing the headlines,

:15:03.:15:07.

it's this statue. So this bust was made in his honour and it's supposed

:15:08.:15:10.

to look like him. I don't know what you think, but I'm not convinced it

:15:11.:15:18.

looks anything like him. We have had funny reaction from the world of

:15:19.:15:23.

social media. Presenter Dan Walker tweeted this: We've had a few other

:15:24.:15:34.

look-alikes that maybe look like the Bust. How about Mr Incredible, what

:15:35.:15:40.

do you think? Perfect! Brilliant. That's all the sport, more later.

:15:41.:15:53.

At least 20% less sugar in biscuits, chocolate bars

:15:54.:15:55.

and breakfast cereals by 2020 - that's the challenge to the food

:15:56.:15:57.

and drink industry from health officials in an attempt to reduce

:15:58.:16:00.

child obesity, which they describe as an "urgent problem".

:16:01.:16:10.

A number of food manufacturers have already pledged to cut sugar in

:16:11.:16:15.

their foods. But Public Health England

:16:16.:16:18.

say things like cakes, yogurts and even some bakery

:16:19.:16:20.

products such as croissants and croissants are just some

:16:21.:16:22.

of the products that They say sugar content

:16:23.:16:25.

can be reduced by... encouraging people to buy low-

:16:26.:16:30.

or no-sugar alternatives, or changing the recipes

:16:31.:16:33.

of products to cut down sugar. But alarmingly, even if sugar levels

:16:34.:16:36.

were reduced by a fifth, youngsters would still be exceeding

:16:37.:16:38.

the recommended daily A third of children

:16:39.:16:40.

going to secondary school The group that represents food

:16:41.:16:44.

and drink manufacturers says they are listening to calls

:16:45.:16:54.

to reduce sugar in products. We've been reducing salt -

:16:55.:16:58.

now we're focusing more on sugar. The industry understands

:16:59.:17:01.

that consumers want more options, and they

:17:02.:17:02.

are providing them. They are changing

:17:03.:17:05.

the recipe of products. It's something that's

:17:06.:17:07.

going to have to be done quite gradually, but it's something that's

:17:08.:17:09.

going to make a real Particularly for those products

:17:10.:17:11.

where it's not possible to substitute the sugar,

:17:12.:17:15.

we are going to see things get smaller, and it's right that

:17:16.:17:17.

Public Health England are out there today saying to people,

:17:18.:17:19.

you need to expect that this Obesity, childhood obesity

:17:20.:17:22.

particularly, is a really serious We've got to tackle it,

:17:23.:17:25.

and one of the consequences is that we're going to see the recipes of

:17:26.:17:29.

favourite products change gradually, and we're going to see some

:17:30.:17:32.

of our favourite products get a bit We can now speak to food sociologist

:17:33.:17:35.

and advisor at Action on Sugar Professor Jack Winkler,

:17:36.:17:42.

food consultant Jane Milton, nutritionist Azmina Govinji,

:17:43.:17:46.

and food taster Jennifer Earle. Health bosses want children

:17:47.:17:51.

to consume 20% less sugar by 2020. We eat too much? Yes. Yes. It is not

:17:52.:18:08.

going to be compulsory. That makes it better. Why? Because you don't

:18:09.:18:15.

have to go through the whole extended legal wrangle of getting

:18:16.:18:17.

everybody to agree and put it in law. What if they don't do it? They

:18:18.:18:23.

will do it, though. Manufacturers want to produce proof that people

:18:24.:18:26.

want to buy, otherwise they would go out of business. If people want food

:18:27.:18:33.

that has less sugar in it, they will find ways to do that. Do people want

:18:34.:18:40.

to have foods which are less sugary? We have brought our children up to

:18:41.:18:45.

enjoy sugary foods, so I think it is a wider issue. There is an emphasis

:18:46.:18:50.

on the manufacturer, but also, labelling, marketing, enabling

:18:51.:18:57.

parents to make healthy choices. But I think people know they should be

:18:58.:19:00.

having less sugar but it is very hard to know. There is too much

:19:01.:19:09.

information, so if we can make the manufacturers have less sugar, then

:19:10.:19:14.

at least those choices, they will automatically be reducing the sugar

:19:15.:19:17.

in their diet. A lot of companies are doing that already. I think

:19:18.:19:24.

also, you have to understand what sugar does in some things. Sugar

:19:25.:19:29.

makes chicken dishes that you make at home go brown on top, because you

:19:30.:19:34.

put a little bit of honey and the source. Or it makes risk it's --

:19:35.:19:42.

biscuits have a crisp taste. There are roles played by sugar, and we

:19:43.:19:46.

will have to decide which of those things we are prepared to have

:19:47.:19:52.

differently, and which we will have less of. Enjoy the things you love,

:19:53.:19:59.

but have less of it. Exactly, portion size is crucial. I think we

:20:00.:20:03.

need to target the appropriate foods. If we start targeting chicken

:20:04.:20:10.

in a sauce... It is pretty much as you would expect, biscuits,

:20:11.:20:15.

puddings, pastries, ice cream. One of the key points in that whole

:20:16.:20:22.

document is, they say, focus on the big seven products. If you do that,

:20:23.:20:25.

then you can have a public health impact. We know that teenagers drink

:20:26.:20:32.

around 30% of their sugar through soft strings, so that is an easy

:20:33.:20:36.

way, cut the sugar in soft drinks. I think the unintended consequence of

:20:37.:20:43.

looking too much at sugar is that we might be demonising food which is

:20:44.:20:46.

otherwise healthy. A whole-grain breakfast cereal gives you nutrients

:20:47.:20:52.

and fibre. Yes, we need to reduce the sugar in these so-called kids

:20:53.:20:56.

cereals, but let's not demonise the food. But there is sugar which has a

:20:57.:21:02.

purpose, like the Browning or the texture, but then there is sugar

:21:03.:21:06.

which is added because it is a cheap ingredient. It has been about

:21:07.:21:10.

reducing the amount of cocoa, adding more sugar, it is only being done

:21:11.:21:14.

because it is cheap, it does not make the chocolate taste any better.

:21:15.:21:18.

When you give the kids chocolate which has more cocoa than sugar,

:21:19.:21:24.

they like it just as much. But it makes the chocolate bar considerably

:21:25.:21:27.

more expensive. Of course, what they might do is just to make the

:21:28.:21:31.

chocolate bar smaller. And then buy two of them! Is such a lazy way of

:21:32.:21:42.

getting around this. It is worse than that. If you make it smaller,

:21:43.:21:48.

the big issue is that many companies have actually kept the price is the

:21:49.:21:54.

same, or even raised them. I heard a representative on the radio this

:21:55.:21:58.

morning, when asked, if you make it smaller, will the price come down?

:21:59.:22:03.

Well, no, not necessarily. It is a good way to raise prices. There is

:22:04.:22:13.

always price inflation anyway. If it is chocolate products, cocoa getting

:22:14.:22:19.

dearer, the prices will go up. But I think although a lot of people have

:22:20.:22:23.

reformulated soft drinks, people need to change their palate to want

:22:24.:22:29.

less sugar in their diet. One of the things about switching from sugar to

:22:30.:22:36.

things like maple syrup or two lower calorie versions of sugar is and

:22:37.:22:42.

sweeteners, it still makes people want sugary food. And there has to

:22:43.:22:50.

be a shift to the way we think. Coming out of the Second World War,

:22:51.:22:55.

people hadn't had that much sugar and they did not have the money to

:22:56.:22:59.

have it. We are more affluent now so we are able to have more of it. And

:23:00.:23:03.

so I think we've got to re-educate people. Honey monster puffs, they

:23:04.:23:14.

have cut the sugar by 41%. They used to be the highest sugar breakfast

:23:15.:23:21.

cereal. It used to be sugar puffs. Yes, it did. Firstly, they never

:23:22.:23:27.

said it is lower sugar, and secondly, it took them 25 years to

:23:28.:23:32.

do it. If we look at assault as the model, we have been really

:23:33.:23:35.

successful at cutting down the salt over the years, we haven't told the

:23:36.:23:39.

consumer, but the industry has been fantastic at making these changes.

:23:40.:23:42.

Bread is much less assaulted and it was ten years ago. And I believe we

:23:43.:23:47.

can do that with sugar. -- if we look at assault. It is about how

:23:48.:23:55.

practical it is, and I think this gradual change is what needs to

:23:56.:24:01.

happen. For the price benefits, we have been trained to expect the

:24:02.:24:08.

sweetness in our food. Like the salt model, if you reduce the sugar, even

:24:09.:24:14.

if it is done gradually, change into smaller portions does not change the

:24:15.:24:17.

core of the problem, that we are addicted to the taste of sugar. What

:24:18.:24:23.

do you say, Professor, to those who say that because these guidelines

:24:24.:24:27.

are voluntary for the food and drink industry, and the Government has not

:24:28.:24:30.

realised how serious the problem is, we have got the sugary drinks levy

:24:31.:24:35.

being introduced in April, that was from the child obesity plan last

:24:36.:24:40.

year? We have referred to the most successful policy in Britain since

:24:41.:24:44.

the Second World War, which was the salt. It was entirely voluntary. The

:24:45.:24:49.

reason being that they learned from the EU's experience. For decades,

:24:50.:24:55.

the European Union tried to harmonise, as they call it, food

:24:56.:24:59.

composition laws, and never got a single one done, because everybody

:25:00.:25:06.

was defending the way they did it in their country, or their brand.

:25:07.:25:13.

Voluntary guidelines, at least you can act on them quickly. And the

:25:14.:25:19.

industry does want to make food that people want to buy. So if there is

:25:20.:25:23.

demand for it, and that is what we saw with salt, people wanted that to

:25:24.:25:29.

happen just I also think traffic lighting on products, which makes it

:25:30.:25:33.

easier to see the composition, will mean that they will not be adding

:25:34.:25:37.

things which would be dapper mental, according to the traffic light

:25:38.:25:38.

signals. Thank you all of you. The mother of a man believed

:25:39.:26:11.

to have left the country after a four-year-old girl

:26:12.:26:14.

was killed by a car has pleaded Violet Grace Youens died

:26:15.:26:17.

after being struck by a stolen vehicle while walking

:26:18.:26:23.

through St Helens, Police are trying to trace 23

:26:24.:26:25.

year old Aidan McAteer, who is believed to have left

:26:26.:26:28.

the country hours after the crash. I'm joined by our

:26:29.:26:31.

correspondent Lisa Hampele. I stolen black Ford Fiesta hit

:26:32.:26:36.

four-year-old Violet as she was walking in St Helens with her

:26:37.:26:39.

grandmother. That was on Friday and she died in hospital the next stage

:26:40.:26:44.

of her grandmother is now in a stable condition in hospital,

:26:45.:26:49.

serious but stable. We know that Merseyside Police released CCTV

:26:50.:26:53.

images of two men fleeing the scene shortly afterwards. And there is an

:26:54.:26:57.

image of a man that they want to trace. What happened is that Alicia

:26:58.:27:07.

McAteer recognised her son, 23-year-old Aiden McGeady, and she

:27:08.:27:11.

recognised the picture and she now says that she wants him to come

:27:12.:27:22.

forward. What I'm feeling is dreadful. But I wake up and the

:27:23.:27:30.

first thought is that family. And Aidan coming home is not going to

:27:31.:27:35.

make it better, nothing is ever going to make it better for that

:27:36.:27:40.

family. But maybe they could get a bit of relief, knowing that the

:27:41.:27:44.

police have got him. Aidan knows how much I love him. And I know how much

:27:45.:27:54.

he loves me. We can do this together. No-one else. I will get

:27:55.:28:03.

him through this, with every last breath I've got, I will get him

:28:04.:28:13.

through it. I'm not condoning anything, but what has happened has

:28:14.:28:20.

happened, with him. And obviously, this family have got an horrific

:28:21.:28:24.

time, an horrific life... She was a little girl, and never going to get

:28:25.:28:30.

over that, ever. But if you come home, wherever he is, I will be

:28:31.:28:33.

there every step of the way with him. So that was the mother of Aidan

:28:34.:28:41.

McAteer. And this is the little girl who lost her life. What has her mum

:28:42.:28:47.

said? Well, she has posted a message on Facebook Thomas Aiken, my

:28:48.:28:52.

beautiful little girl has passed away in my arms. She says, though

:28:53.:28:56.

she is heartbroken, she is very proud because her daughter was able

:28:57.:29:00.

to donate some of her organs. There has been a court appearance, another

:29:01.:29:05.

man has appeared before Liverpool Magistrate's Court, Dean Brennan,

:29:06.:29:14.

charged with theft of a motor vehicle and assisting an offender.

:29:15.:29:17.

And also a third man was arrested on suspicion of being, carrying a

:29:18.:29:22.

stolen vehicle, but he has been released pending further enquiries.

:29:23.:29:29.

Still to come: The high profile campaign to get us talking about

:29:30.:29:34.

mental health. I came here and interviewed a person with depression

:29:35.:29:37.

and I could see the person with depression looking at me and

:29:38.:29:40.

thinking, you are way sicker than I am.

:29:41.:29:56.

Plans to repatriate over 40 years worth of powers

:29:57.:29:59.

from the European Union will start this morning with the publication

:30:00.:30:02.

The Government paper intends to convert thousands of EU

:30:03.:30:06.

House of Commons officials have described the process as one

:30:07.:30:11.

of the largest legislative projects ever undertaken in the UK.

:30:12.:30:14.

David Davis explained how it would work. What it does is, 40 years of

:30:15.:30:26.

European law, transfer that into UK law. It's not a straightforward

:30:27.:30:31.

process but it is a limited process. We have to do that in a way that

:30:32.:30:36.

works, so all the law works. That means when we start on the new trade

:30:37.:30:39.

deal, we are many the same place as every other country in Europe. After

:30:40.:30:45.

that, we'll have to do legislation on immigration, customs and other

:30:46.:30:48.

things. That will be done substantially by Parliament.

:30:49.:30:51.

There'll be a number of such laws I think. Parliament will make those

:30:52.:30:54.

decisions. This is a big transformation. We shouldn't

:30:55.:30:58.

underestimate that we've got a task to do. It's moment us to but it's

:30:59.:31:01.

not beyond us. The Insurance Market,

:31:02.:31:03.

Lloyd's of London, says it will open a new subsidiary in Brussels

:31:04.:31:06.

in early 2019 because of It's concerned that once the UK has

:31:07.:31:10.

left the EU it will lose the right to sell its products

:31:11.:31:15.

across the single market. The Chief Executive said customers

:31:16.:31:22.

shouldn't be worried about the move. Nothing to worry about. In fact it

:31:23.:31:26.

helps secure the future of Lloyds. About 5% of our business is impacted

:31:27.:31:30.

by the UK coming out of the EU and we want to be able to provide

:31:31.:31:34.

continuous coverage and continue to issue insurance policies for

:31:35.:31:38.

customers based in the EU hence the need to set up an EU subsidiary.

:31:39.:31:43.

A privately-owned helicopter with five people on board has

:31:44.:31:46.

The aircraft is believed to have been travelling

:31:47.:31:49.

from Milton Keynes to Dublin, via Caernarfon Bay.

:31:50.:31:52.

A land search is under way but the aerial search had to be

:31:53.:31:55.

Health officials have published guidelines on the limits of sugar

:31:56.:32:09.

they believe should be put on foods. It aims to cut the sugar consumed by

:32:10.:32:16.

children by 20% this decade. Children consume three times more

:32:17.:32:20.

sugar each day than they should, putting them at risk of serious

:32:21.:32:27.

illnesses. More from me at 10. Thank you very much for your messages.

:32:28.:32:32.

This tweet from Nina. When my partner showed he was

:32:33.:32:34.

non-judgmental, understanding and saw me as a person, not as my eating

:32:35.:32:40.

disorder, I was able to talk. And this from Simon, I left my mental

:32:41.:32:45.

health conversation for nearly two decades too long but when I did, my

:32:46.:32:48.

life began to improve immediately. I've got many more, keep them coming

:32:49.:32:52.

in. I'm going to read quite a lot of them in the next half hour when we

:32:53.:32:56.

talk about this. Before that, here is the sport.

:32:57.:33:00.

Arsene Wenger refused to confirm whether he'll remain as Arsenal

:33:01.:33:08.

Speaking at a press conference ahead of this weekend's match

:33:09.:33:13.

against Manchester City, Wenger said he could be at the club

:33:14.:33:15.

Britain's Jo Pavey says it's a bittersweet feeling to receive

:33:16.:33:22.

a bronze medal from the 10,000 metres world championships in Japan

:33:23.:33:25.

She's been upgraded after the athlete who took

:33:26.:33:31.

the silver medal was retrospectively disqualified for doping.

:33:32.:33:33.

Johanna Konta is into the semi finals of the Miami Open

:33:34.:33:36.

after beating Simona Halep in three sets.

:33:37.:33:39.

She'll face Venus Williams next in the last four, overnight.

:33:40.:33:42.

And Manchester City's women take a one nil aggregate lead

:33:43.:33:45.

into their Champions League quarter final second leg at home to Danish

:33:46.:33:48.

It's City's first season in the competition.

:33:49.:33:57.

How do you shatter the stigma around mental health?

:33:58.:34:06.

One way is to simply talk about it according to the Duke and Duchess

:34:07.:34:10.

of Cambridge and Prince Harry who've released a series of films as part

:34:11.:34:13.

of their Heads Together mental health campaign.

:34:14.:34:16.

We're going to talk to some of the people featured in those

:34:17.:34:22.

films in just a moment; they're here in the studio talking

:34:23.:34:27.

about the conversations they had with friends,

:34:28.:34:32.

loved ones, and relatives about their own mental health

:34:33.:34:39.

issues; but first here's one of the films commissioned

:34:40.:34:42.

by the Royals, featuring former England cricketer Andrew Flintoff

:34:43.:34:47.

I think I was born with anxiety. I was brought up by my grandmother, my

:34:48.:35:06.

mum was 16 when I was born, my mum was the first person to leave when I

:35:07.:35:11.

was a year old. I was 24 and my dad took his own life and it wasn't

:35:12.:35:15.

until years later when I did a documentary for the BBC, I had a

:35:16.:35:19.

conversation with my nan. It's weird this happened for the first time on

:35:20.:35:23.

camera, but we spoke about it properly. I broke down. I was

:35:24.:35:27.

petrified. It scared me, people are going to see me at my most

:35:28.:35:30.

vulnerable in a way that I don't often see myself. But that

:35:31.:35:33.

conversation changed everything because from that point everything

:35:34.:35:36.

was out in the open and I was able to then talk to my friends about it

:35:37.:35:40.

because my friends watched the programme. I knew that something's

:35:41.:35:46.

not right for a long time. And I ran away from it. This is not me, this

:35:47.:35:51.

is not happening. I bumbled on for a little bit. Then I started, you

:35:52.:35:55.

know, living differently. I probably started to drink too much and tried

:35:56.:36:01.

to escape how I was feeling. Then I did this documentary like you did

:36:02.:36:05.

and I spoke to Ricky Hatton about this and Neil Lennon and Graham Dot,

:36:06.:36:11.

the spooker player, I was listening to them identifying and thinking,

:36:12.:36:15.

I've been through this. Ricky Hatton, actually you've gone through

:36:16.:36:18.

this, you are one of the hardest people I know and you can talk about

:36:19.:36:23.

it. I started thinking, if I start talking about problems, one, the

:36:24.:36:26.

people who followed me through my career, they're going to turn their

:36:27.:36:29.

backs on me because they think I'm one thing, everyone's going to think

:36:30.:36:34.

differently. Did that happen? No! It was the complete opposite. It was

:36:35.:36:38.

like, people come up to me and said, wow, and then they'd start telling

:36:39.:36:45.

me about how they'd feel. I even had mates that I'd never think about. We

:36:46.:36:50.

then had different conversations. You have to be honest. Then you have

:36:51.:36:54.

a conversation with someone and you engage with what you are talking

:36:55.:36:58.

about, you do unload everything and for me it's never planned, it always

:36:59.:37:03.

just comes out at a random time but the feeling of relief afterwards...

:37:04.:37:07.

It does feel like a weight's lifted, doesn't it? Yes. But the hardest

:37:08.:37:14.

thing for me initially was the hardest thing. I don't talk, I'm

:37:15.:37:17.

from the north of England, a working class family, we don't talk about

:37:18.:37:21.

our feelings! Yes, yes, it was no different for me, a council estate

:37:22.:37:25.

in East London, I'm from, it's not something you spoke about. To me it

:37:26.:37:29.

seems a shame it's taken us all these years to be open and vocal

:37:30.:37:34.

about things. It's crazy when it opens up, it just comes from being

:37:35.:37:39.

vocal. That one time. It's made me a happier person. I have less downs

:37:40.:37:43.

and more ups with being honest about how I feel. Andrew Flintoff and

:37:44.:37:49.

Professor Green. Almost half of us have discussed

:37:50.:37:52.

mental health issues recently, and 8 out of 10 who did,

:37:53.:37:54.

thought the conversations That's according to a YouGov

:37:55.:37:57.

survey for Heads Together. Opening up to someone for the first

:37:58.:38:00.

time about a mental health issue Once that conversation

:38:01.:38:03.

starts, it could be Let's talk to six people

:38:04.:38:06.

who've taken that step. Paramedic Dan Farnworth

:38:07.:38:09.

and his colleague Rich Morton, friends Anni Ferguson

:38:10.:38:11.

and Naa-Affie Delalande-Zankor and husband and wife,

:38:12.:38:16.

Julie and Phil Eaglesham. And jst to say our conversations

:38:17.:38:19.

this morning are going to be frank open and you might find

:38:20.:38:23.

some details upsetting. Welcome all of you. Thank you so

:38:24.:38:34.

much for coming on the programme. Dan, what were the warning signs

:38:35.:38:40.

that something was wrong? For me, it was probably a six-month period of

:38:41.:38:47.

slow decline. It related to flashbacks from a traumatic incident

:38:48.:38:52.

that we attended at work which was ultimately the murder of a child

:38:53.:38:57.

which for anybody would be really difficult to contend and deal with.

:38:58.:39:02.

But for me, I was having vivid flashbacks, I was having nightmares.

:39:03.:39:05.

During the day I'd find myself sat there, the TV would be on, I would

:39:06.:39:09.

be staring at the wall, I wouldn't be talking to anybody, I'd just be

:39:10.:39:13.

thinking about what had happened. I felt myself slowly getting into a

:39:14.:39:16.

deeper and darker hole. It got to the point where I felt the world was

:39:17.:39:21.

passing by above my head. That's where you came in really and the

:39:22.:39:25.

conversation started. I knew I needed help. I was really scared of

:39:26.:39:29.

opening up and talking about mental health. I was scared that that would

:39:30.:39:33.

mean I couldn't do my job any more which is absolutely not the case. I

:39:34.:39:38.

was scared to open up to my wife, I was scared that she'd think it was a

:39:39.:39:42.

sign of weakness, you know, how can our men be like that, we are there

:39:43.:39:46.

to drive everything forward and support the family, how can I admit

:39:47.:39:50.

there was a problem. So I sent you a text didn't I mate and it developed

:39:51.:39:55.

from there. You eventually wrote a text, deleted it, wrote it again,

:39:56.:39:58.

deleted it and it was the third time I think... It was scary. Then you

:39:59.:40:02.

shoved your phone under the pillow because you didn't know what the

:40:03.:40:06.

response would be? I was scared. I was admitting for the first time to

:40:07.:40:10.

somebody that I had an issue, that I needed help. And Rich, what was your

:40:11.:40:17.

response? I'll come round, have a chat, but it was quite a big deal

:40:18.:40:21.

for me to get back to you and think about what I'm going to expect when

:40:22.:40:28.

I get there and what to say to you. So I maybe seen a difference at

:40:29.:40:33.

work, change in appearance and mood. Normally laughing and joking, but he

:40:34.:40:38.

went reclusive. I knew something was up because we'd been good friends

:40:39.:40:43.

for about six-and-a-half years. To actually go round there, I was quite

:40:44.:40:48.

anxious myself, how do I instigate this conversation. But for me it was

:40:49.:40:54.

just listen. I know that my feelings weren't, or my anxiety was nowhere

:40:55.:40:58.

near as much as Dan would be feeling at that time. What did you say to

:40:59.:41:03.

him? I opened up. It was the hardest conversation I've ever had. But as

:41:04.:41:08.

soon as Rich arrived at the door, I felt like the weight of the world

:41:09.:41:12.

was instantly lifted. The relief I already felt before I started

:41:13.:41:15.

speaking and the funny thing is, I already knew what I had to do, I

:41:16.:41:19.

just needed somebody to tell me that what I wanted to do was the right

:41:20.:41:23.

thing and to be there to support me. That was all it took. It changed

:41:24.:41:27.

everything. Honestly, it was the first day of the rest of my life

:41:28.:41:31.

talking to Rich about my problems. It's a conundrum, but when we talk

:41:32.:41:35.

about this, you know, two heads are better than one when it comes to

:41:36.:41:39.

mental health and this's absolutely the case and it's so true.

:41:40.:41:44.

Definitely. Wow. I mean, it's really powerful just hearing you two recall

:41:45.:41:48.

that time and how you say that was the kind of start of the change just

:41:49.:41:55.

taking that step. Annie, hello. Hi. You were on what should have been a

:41:56.:41:58.

really fantastic girls holiday in Barcelona. Yes. Tell me what

:41:59.:42:02.

happened on the beach? Well, Barcelona is my favourite city and

:42:03.:42:06.

we'd had such a great day, our first day there. We'd had a lot of great

:42:07.:42:10.

food and a few drinks and it was a couple of hours before the sun set

:42:11.:42:15.

so we went down to the sun loungers. All of a sudden, I just kind of

:42:16.:42:20.

crashed and I felt that familiar kind of dark cloud come over me. I

:42:21.:42:26.

was really frustrated. All our friends were having a good time and

:42:27.:42:30.

I felt like, why can't I have a good time, why is this happening again,

:42:31.:42:35.

I'd kind of run away from London so that, you know, I'd be in my

:42:36.:42:40.

favourite city and be happy. Sometimes I felt like, you know, I

:42:41.:42:44.

could lose friendships or I was behaving Strangly because I hadn't

:42:45.:42:48.

expressd to anybody about how I felt and how I saw the world a lot.

:42:49.:42:56.

That's when I decided to just go to Naaffi and have a conversation with

:42:57.:42:59.

her about how I was feeling. What did you say? I recognised the signs

:43:00.:43:04.

having been through something similar myself. I recognised she was

:43:05.:43:08.

depressed. This time she was owning it, she was the one saying, this is

:43:09.:43:12.

my last resort, I need to get this off my chest and express how I feel.

:43:13.:43:19.

So it was firstly I felt honoured that she had that trust in me to

:43:20.:43:23.

confide in me, then it was just helping and guiding her and letting

:43:24.:43:27.

her know that you weren't alone, that you've got your friends, your

:43:28.:43:31.

support network with your family or whoever. But just really to have

:43:32.:43:36.

that support and actually say to her, what you're feeling at this

:43:37.:43:43.

moment in time is yours. What was the first thing you said because

:43:44.:43:49.

people don't know how to express it sometimes. What did you actually

:43:50.:43:57.

say? I just said I wasn't having a good time, I apologised for bringing

:43:58.:44:02.

the mood down. I said, I need help, how can I not be having a good time

:44:03.:44:07.

here. Remained me Rich, of the words tonne text? Can you come round, I

:44:08.:44:14.

need a chat. Simple as that? It was so simple. Put the kettle on, I'm on

:44:15.:44:19.

my way, and the relief was unbelievable. It's just taking that

:44:20.:44:23.

step. It really was the most difficult step to take. But the best

:44:24.:44:29.

step you ever will take. OK. We are going to hear from Phil and Julie in

:44:30.:44:36.

a moment and Cooper the dog can make another appearance:th. I want you

:44:37.:44:41.

all to take a look at this film, Ruby Wax and her husband, Ed. They

:44:42.:44:47.

talk about the moment when she told him about the state of her mental

:44:48.:44:49.

health. Secondly that I have been married

:44:50.:45:15.

twice before. And thirdly, that I was mentally ill. Which one was the

:45:16.:45:22.

head bash? All three Cilic was like a concussive blow. You can imagine a

:45:23.:45:25.

grenade went off, and then it had sudden... Then I started laughing.

:45:26.:45:34.

You laughed. And then I signed the register, best wishes, Ruby wax! And

:45:35.:45:36.

then we never mentioned it again. No, not really. Did it ever scare

:45:37.:45:43.

you that I had said that? It wasn't a huge surprise. But it sort of does

:45:44.:45:52.

things like,, yeah, that might explain this or that. This was when

:45:53.:45:57.

I knew that you were the best news ever, I had to interview somebody

:45:58.:46:02.

who was mentally ill in a hospital. Everybody in the institution said,

:46:03.:46:07.

are you insane? They all cheered me as I left, and then I came here and

:46:08.:46:09.

interviewed a person with depression. And I could see the

:46:10.:46:13.

person with depression looking at me and thinking, you are away sick than

:46:14.:46:19.

I am! And then everybody clapped. Whenever you got depression, you

:46:20.:46:26.

could see there was a sort of panic because of the confusion about what

:46:27.:46:30.

was happening in your head. If you're close to somebody with

:46:31.:46:33.

depression, you've got to help them make the first move, to understand

:46:34.:46:37.

that they are sick. In your case, it is to be amongst people who suffer

:46:38.:46:40.

the same thing, so they can compare notes and talk to each other and

:46:41.:46:44.

support each other. I have seen you talk to other people who have

:46:45.:46:48.

depression, it is kind of like a unique club. I'm only relieved,

:46:49.:46:52.

really, when I'm with other people that have mental illness. If I see

:46:53.:46:57.

the eyes of another, we have this understanding, and that's the

:46:58.:47:02.

healing. Ruby wax and her husband. Phil I don't think it was your

:47:03.:47:07.

wedding day when you opened up to Julie, but tell me how can Julie

:47:08.:47:12.

first discovered you were struggling? I think it went back to

:47:13.:47:18.

when I had a moment, we were away in Jersey, it was a respite holiday

:47:19.:47:21.

with the Marines and I started to struggle with being able to get

:47:22.:47:25.

places, and my disability and being in a wheelchair and things like

:47:26.:47:28.

that. We ended up coming back and having a family holiday, and Julie

:47:29.:47:34.

did some research on how I could overdose, or what would be the best

:47:35.:47:39.

way. And stupidly I probably left it on the iPad and she found it. And

:47:40.:47:43.

from there, she never let me out of her sight for about six months! I

:47:44.:47:49.

can't imagine how you would have felt, having seen that your husband

:47:50.:47:52.

was researching ways to end his life? I was deeply saddened, I was

:47:53.:48:00.

hurt, I was angry. I thought, how could he contemplate doing something

:48:01.:48:04.

like this? Did he not think about us? But then it came back to me

:48:05.:48:10.

realising that he was just thinking about ending the pain he was in, and

:48:11.:48:18.

struggling to deal with how he was struggling with his own emotions. I

:48:19.:48:25.

was a different person, really. A completely different person for a

:48:26.:48:28.

few years, someone I did not even recognise. The things I was saying

:48:29.:48:32.

didn't make sense to anyone. Like what? I think for that six months

:48:33.:48:37.

before we actually told someone, I was trying to tell people but not

:48:38.:48:41.

knowing whether people could understand. Everything I said I

:48:42.:48:44.

understood in my head but no-one could understand a word. It wasn't

:48:45.:48:49.

the accent, it was more to do with how I was saying things! Then I

:48:50.:48:53.

became reclusive, and the more it got worse. Sitting in my seat,

:48:54.:48:58.

curtains closed, making excuses for everything, just didn't leave the

:48:59.:49:07.

house. Yes, didn't tell anyone. Julie would hurt herself lifting me

:49:08.:49:11.

up and I thought I was a burden on her and the kids, not being able to

:49:12.:49:15.

get on with their life. I thought it would be better at that stage if I

:49:16.:49:20.

wasn't around. But it's not true. She is stuck with me unfortunately

:49:21.:49:25.

now. But it was a long period that you wouldn't allow me to tell

:49:26.:49:31.

anyone. And I think that was through fear of being ashamed. Ashamed, I

:49:32.:49:35.

thought I was weak. There's that whole stigma around mental health.

:49:36.:49:39.

If that stigma wasn't there, and what this campaign is trying to do,

:49:40.:49:43.

I would not have got to that point where I tried to end my life.

:49:44.:49:48.

Thankfully we've got... Unfortunately, we've got friends and

:49:49.:49:52.

family who have suffered, and people who are not here today. It is

:49:53.:49:56.

important to me to get rid of that stigma so that I never go back there

:49:57.:50:00.

myself, but also my kids and my friends are my family. In the end, I

:50:01.:50:05.

think you posted on Facebook and you did talk to your best friend, and

:50:06.:50:09.

then you two had a conversation. Was that the order of it? Yes, I talked

:50:10.:50:17.

to my best friend at the time, I can't even remember what I said, it

:50:18.:50:22.

was just, I tried to kill myself. And I think it affected him

:50:23.:50:28.

massively. This does not affect me, it affects everybody outside of the

:50:29.:50:32.

family. The next day we told a medical team. I still think we

:50:33.:50:37.

hadn't talked about it as a Matip was still too difficult to talk to

:50:38.:50:42.

Julie about. The team recognised I think the symptoms and the warning

:50:43.:50:48.

signs. But didn't realise how bad Philip had got because he had become

:50:49.:50:52.

reclusive and wasn't talking to anyone and wasn't letting out how

:50:53.:50:59.

things truly were. People judge with their eyes, and that is how we live

:51:00.:51:03.

as a society. We can understand what we see. Because we can't see mental

:51:04.:51:07.

health, we don't know how people react to it. And that's a big fear.

:51:08.:51:14.

That it is a physical problem that we are dealing with and getting over

:51:15.:51:17.

that is very important. We have had some anime messages. I don't

:51:18.:51:22.

underestimate what it takes for you to talk about this on national

:51:23.:51:25.

television, and also what it takes for our audience to get in touch and

:51:26.:51:30.

share their experiences. John says... I had a lady who approached

:51:31.:51:34.

me as a martial arts instructor, she needed to learn to defend herself

:51:35.:51:39.

against her ex-husband who was regularly hurting her with beeping

:51:40.:51:44.

is beatings. She needed help badly. We have now been happily married for

:51:45.:51:49.

28 years. She still battles her mental health demons and life is not

:51:50.:51:53.

always easy for her but we love each other more as each day goes by. She

:51:54.:51:57.

is proof that you can improve your mental health if you take the right

:51:58.:52:03.

steps and get help. Wow! Pat says this, and this is where you may be

:52:04.:52:06.

able to help. My 20-year-old granddaughter has been suffering

:52:07.:52:09.

from depression, night terrors, suicidal thoughts and anxiety. It

:52:10.:52:15.

started when she was 17. Last year she tried to take her own life.

:52:16.:52:18.

Apparently part of her treatment is to write a blog. And this went out

:52:19.:52:23.

yesterday on her Facebook page. We has her grandparents are unsure how

:52:24.:52:27.

we can help her. Can anyone give us some guidance on doing this? We are

:52:28.:52:31.

worried and we want to be supported grandparents. What would you say? I

:52:32.:52:39.

think it's just to be open with her. There is a stigma around the old and

:52:40.:52:43.

the bold, where we don't talk about it, and it is not an actual fact

:52:44.:52:47.

that there. But the main thing is, it's not a weakness in anyone. We've

:52:48.:52:53.

always said, and the people here, dare anyone say that we are weak

:52:54.:52:57.

now, because the things we have gone through in the past, I am actually

:52:58.:53:02.

probably a stronger person now than I have ever been. So she will come

:53:03.:53:06.

out the other end a stronger and better person. So when you say to

:53:07.:53:11.

Pat, the open with her 20-year-old granddaughter, does that mean

:53:12.:53:14.

picking up the phone and texting, and saying, do you want to talk to

:53:15.:53:19.

me, I am here? Yes. I think that blog will be... There will be some

:53:20.:53:22.

hurtful things in it. Reading that is going to wound whoever loves her.

:53:23.:53:27.

So I think ultimately what they have to do is read it and not take it as

:53:28.:53:33.

a criticism, but maybe just turn around and say, OK, we have got the

:53:34.:53:36.

bigger picture here, we are beginning to understand where she's

:53:37.:53:39.

coming from, and then offer the support from there. Also, allow her

:53:40.:53:50.

to say it, because she is not internalising, so allow her to say

:53:51.:53:53.

whatever is on her mind truly you have to realise as well, you take it

:53:54.:53:57.

out on your nearest and dearest. I took it out on Julie and my kids.

:53:58.:54:02.

That was where I was safe to get angry or whatever. So if she gets

:54:03.:54:05.

angry at her, don't take it personally. It's actually a

:54:06.:54:09.

condiment because that is who you are more comfortable with. Can I

:54:10.:54:12.

asked specifically about mental health issues the team it is taboo,

:54:13.:54:18.

you don't talk about the words depression in your community? Not

:54:19.:54:24.

really. Why? It seems that mental health issues are an extreme thing.

:54:25.:54:30.

Especially coming from an African, Ghanaian community, which we both

:54:31.:54:33.

do, everybody is very supported if, if you say you're depressed or you

:54:34.:54:37.

have mental health issues, but depression is not necessarily a word

:54:38.:54:42.

or a concept that we like to use. If you were brought up here, your

:54:43.:54:48.

parents or a lot of your family struggled back home, and it kind of

:54:49.:54:53.

seems ungrateful. How can you possibly be depressed in the fifth

:54:54.:54:58.

richest economy in the world, sort of thing? Yes, what could possibly

:54:59.:55:02.

be wrong with you? And I think that is a big thing. Also, because most

:55:03.:55:07.

black people see mental health institutions through coercive means.

:55:08.:55:11.

Perhaps maybe through prison or through hospital. And because we

:55:12.:55:15.

don't go early and get help, it kind of escalates. And so, straightaway,

:55:16.:55:23.

people are sectioned and there's a high amount of the black community

:55:24.:55:30.

are sectioned. Prince Harry and the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge

:55:31.:55:34.

believe we are at a tipping point when it comes to mental health in

:55:35.:55:39.

this country - do you agree? Absolutely, we have been in a

:55:40.:55:43.

position where it has been a taboo subject for a long time. I think

:55:44.:55:48.

ourselves included, who have experienced mental health problems,

:55:49.:55:50.

can see the benefit of opening up and talking about it. I think now,

:55:51.:55:55.

the whole of society is starting to recognise the importance of it but

:55:56.:55:59.

we have got to really keep driving it and keep the conversation going

:56:00.:56:02.

and let everybody know that it is important to talk. We understand the

:56:03.:56:07.

power of that, and I think society as a whole is starting to understand

:56:08.:56:12.

that. It has been really good that the royal foundation is supporting

:56:13.:56:16.

this. Tipping point might be the accurate phrase, but there are still

:56:17.:56:20.

some people who do not understand depression, anxiety, that it is a

:56:21.:56:24.

real thing. This is from Ian, who texted. I am 35, I live in London, I

:56:25.:56:29.

have had mental health issues for 20 years. I do believe people need to

:56:30.:56:34.

open up but unfortunately the stigma still exists. I opened up to my boss

:56:35.:56:39.

and team in a recent role in the City of London. It actually made

:56:40.:56:43.

them put up barriers, it created silences. I even got the response

:56:44.:56:48.

from one colleague who said, I don't talk about emotion and things, so

:56:49.:56:54.

don't expect me to. It is fear. What should they do, find someone else to

:56:55.:56:58.

talk to? Yes. I'm on my fourth psychologist. It took the fourth

:56:59.:57:03.

one, I don't know what he done, whether it was voodoo or whatever.

:57:04.:57:08.

It is not voodoo, we know that! I don't understand it, what that

:57:09.:57:13.

talking therapy did, but it was the fourth person. And the point is,

:57:14.:57:18.

don't give up. Let me read some more messages. Darren says, I am a mental

:57:19.:57:22.

health nurse working for the NHS. Even us professionals don't talk

:57:23.:57:27.

enough. In February a beautiful colleague of mine aged 23 took her

:57:28.:57:30.

own life because of mental health problems. Even with all the experts

:57:31.:57:34.

around her every day and her friends, no-one knew the pain she

:57:35.:57:38.

was experiencing. We all need to talk more and be open and honest. It

:57:39.:57:44.

is her funeral tomorrow. I love her and I miss her dearly. Stuart says,

:57:45.:57:48.

coming to terms with anxiety and depression was not only difficult

:57:49.:57:52.

for me to understand but after a few years of feeling alone in thinking

:57:53.:57:55.

that I was weird and different, I decided to speak to my mum and close

:57:56.:57:59.

friends and they helped me in the right direction. You go through

:58:00.:58:02.

stages feeling like you are in the dark and there is no way, but

:58:03.:58:06.

suddenly, there is light and hope. Have to remember that talking helps,

:58:07.:58:10.

action to help yourself will also help you. Can you relate to that,

:58:11.:58:16.

the dark and then the light? I think we all put on some kind of disguise,

:58:17.:58:23.

a smile when people are around. For me, being in the military, I was

:58:24.:58:29.

always clean-shaven, and my beard became my disguise, so people would

:58:30.:58:33.

not recognise me and ask me how I was, so I did not have to put a

:58:34.:58:37.

smile on. I am sure people here have had that as well. The facade you put

:58:38.:58:44.

on, the act you put on, to relate to everyday life in situations. It is

:58:45.:58:48.

just that, it is a mask. It's going to crumble, you need to feel it. I

:58:49.:58:54.

think even more so in our job is in we are there to look after people.

:58:55.:58:58.

You don't want to have this facade on that you are well yourself. There

:58:59.:59:02.

is a big thing in the emergency services. The same in the NHS. You

:59:03.:59:08.

put your uniform on, it is not a cloak of armour, its not going to

:59:09.:59:11.

stop you being affected by what you're dealing with. Same for the

:59:12.:59:18.

Armed Forces. It is a taboo, that we think, this will protect us. It

:59:19.:59:22.

genuinely will not, and that's why we need to start the conversation,

:59:23.:59:27.

like Darren said, within the health care industry, we all need to start

:59:28.:59:34.

looking after ourselves, as well as others. Thank you all of you for

:59:35.:59:41.

coming in. And thanks to Cooper, we would not have known there was a dog

:59:42.:59:44.

in the studio! What a beautiful animal! Thank you for bringing him

:59:45.:59:52.

in as well. Thank you all of you. We can bring you the latest weather

:59:53.:59:53.

now. There is some good news on the

:59:54.:00:05.

weather front today, and some news that is not so great. We have some

:00:06.:00:09.

cloud and rain across western parts of the UK. But the other side of the

:00:10.:00:16.

country is warming up, so, a tale of two halves today. This is the

:00:17.:00:23.

weather front. Notice these yellow and orange colours, indicating the

:00:24.:00:26.

temperature, showing that these up and coming from the south is warm.

:00:27.:00:32.

This is the satellite picture of the cloud and rain that we have observed

:00:33.:00:36.

over the last few hours. And this is the warm air wafting up from the

:00:37.:00:41.

south. For today, we're talking about cloudy skies and some rain

:00:42.:00:47.

across western areas. Starting with Scotland, because this is where the

:00:48.:00:53.

air is a little bit fresher today. Bits of rain in Northern Ireland. It

:00:54.:00:59.

is wet across the Lake District. A bit of rain across western Wales and

:01:00.:01:02.

down into the south-west of England. A large chunk of England, the

:01:03.:01:07.

weather is not looking bad at all. Quite a big cut-off there between

:01:08.:01:15.

the warm and the cooler air. Top temperatures today I think, 22

:01:16.:01:20.

degrees, in London. A very warm day for this time of the year.

:01:21.:01:27.

him about the state of her mental health.

:01:28.:01:33.

Tonight a mild night. Into tomorrow, in the morning there'll be some

:01:34.:01:38.

cloud and rain but it tends to brighten up a little in the

:01:39.:01:43.

afternoon. I think somewhat fresher tomorrow, typically around 15, 16.

:01:44.:01:47.

Again, still a bit of cloud and rain across the north and west. Now the

:01:48.:01:51.

weekend - looking mixed, that is for sure. On Saturday it's a mixture of

:01:52.:01:58.

sunshine and April showers. We are into April. Then on Sunday, high

:01:59.:02:02.

pressure builds once again from the south. You can see it's nosing up

:02:03.:02:07.

from the south. That means the weather will dry out, there'll be

:02:08.:02:11.

light winds, more sunshine around, not sky high temperatures, but for

:02:12.:02:15.

most around 15, but just about 17 there in London. The outlook for

:02:16.:02:19.

next week is looking relatively promising. Let's get through the

:02:20.:02:24.

weekend first of all and today of course, enjoy it. Bye.

:02:25.:02:28.

Hello it's Thursday, it's 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:02:29.:02:32.

In just over an hour's time we'll find out the Government's plan

:02:33.:02:35.

to convert tens of thousands of EU rules into British law

:02:36.:02:38.

as it publishes details of the Great Repeal Bill.

:02:39.:02:41.

And we'll be looking specifically at employment law and what kind

:02:42.:02:49.

Ministers deny Theresa May's threatening to blackmail Europe by

:02:50.:02:54.

ending security cooperation unless we get a trade deal.

:02:55.:02:58.

And we'll be looking specifically at employment law and what kind

:02:59.:03:01.

of working environment we want to create in this country.

:03:02.:03:05.

We'll look into mental health, we have films on mental health and

:03:06.:03:10.

we've been hearing how important it is to tell those close to you how

:03:11.:03:16.

you feel. I I opened up. It was the hardest conversation I'd ever had

:03:17.:03:20.

but as soon as Rich arrived, I felt the weight had been instantly

:03:21.:03:24.

lifted. I kind of said, I'm not having a good time, I apologised for

:03:25.:03:29.

my behaviour because I felt like I was bringing the mood down and I

:03:30.:03:34.

just said, I need help, how can I not be having a good time here. You

:03:35.:03:43.

can get in touch and tells your own experiences this morning.

:03:44.:03:45.

If you humiliate ex-lovers with revenge porn should you go to jail?

:03:46.:03:48.

In certain circumstances yes, according to new

:03:49.:03:52.

We'll be discussing what those are and hearing from a woman

:03:53.:03:57.

who thinks her former partner's sentence didn't reflect

:03:58.:03:59.

Here is Annita with a summary of the day's news.

:04:00.:04:08.

Plans to repatriate more than forty years worth of powers

:04:09.:04:11.

from the European Union will start this morning with the publication

:04:12.:04:14.

The government paper intends to convert thousands of EU

:04:15.:04:19.

House of Commons officials have described the process as one

:04:20.:04:23.

of the largest legislative projects ever undertaken in the UK.

:04:24.:04:41.

Retired college lecturer, Neil Conway has lost his High Court bid

:04:42.:04:48.

to challenge the law on assisted dying. That just in.

:04:49.:04:51.

The Insurance Market, Lloyd's of London, says it will open

:04:52.:04:54.

a new office in Brussels in early 2019.

:04:55.:04:57.

Lloyds says it's concerned that once the UK has left the EU,

:04:58.:04:59.

it will lose the right to sell its products

:05:00.:05:02.

across the single market, but its Chief Executive said

:05:03.:05:04.

customers shouldn't be concerned about the move.

:05:05.:05:15.

Nothing to worry about. In fact it strengthens our business. We want to

:05:16.:05:21.

be able to provide continuous coverage and continue to issue

:05:22.:05:23.

insurance policies for customers based in the EU hence the need to

:05:24.:05:28.

set up a subsidiary. A helicopter has gone missing. The

:05:29.:05:41.

aerial search has been suspended due to poor wealth but the land search

:05:42.:05:45.

continues. Holly Hamilton is in Caernarfon. Weather conditions is

:05:46.:05:49.

not improved since that search was called off here late last night. We

:05:50.:05:53.

are waiting for an update on that operation to find out when it will

:05:54.:05:56.

resume on the search for that missing helicopter. We know that it

:05:57.:06:01.

left Milton Keynes shortly before midday yesterday morning. It was due

:06:02.:06:06.

to stop here in Caernarfon, it does not arrive, all contact was lost and

:06:07.:06:10.

there were no sightings so the UK coastguard was informed immediately.

:06:11.:06:15.

That search operation was launched just after 4 yesterday afternoon.

:06:16.:06:19.

That involved two coastguard helicopters that searched across

:06:20.:06:21.

North Wales right across to Dublin, but because of the poor weather and

:06:22.:06:25.

the poor visibility here, that search was called off late last

:06:26.:06:30.

night. Now, North Wales police have resumed the search today on ground,

:06:31.:06:36.

they've called in Mountain Rescue Teams across Snowdonia, they're

:06:37.:06:38.

focussing their search on that area. At the minute, we know very little

:06:39.:06:42.

about the five individuals who're on board that aircraft. We know that it

:06:43.:06:49.

was a privately-owned twin red helicopter. Members of the public

:06:50.:06:57.

have been asked to dial 999 if they saw that red helicopter yesterday

:06:58.:07:01.

afternoon. We are waiting for an update on when the search will

:07:02.:07:05.

resume. They've said they are unable to start that search again while the

:07:06.:07:10.

weather remains like this. Unless anything changes, there'll be no

:07:11.:07:12.

updates in the next while. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge

:07:13.:07:16.

and Prince Harry have released a series of films as part

:07:17.:07:18.

of their Heads Together campaign designed to encourage people to talk

:07:19.:07:22.

about mental health. The project aims to help end

:07:23.:07:24.

the stigma around mental health. The former England cricket

:07:25.:07:27.

captain Andrew Flintoff and the rapper Professor Green,

:07:28.:07:30.

were among the celebrities who've The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

:07:31.:07:33.

will hold talks today with senior executives from social media

:07:34.:07:38.

companies and internet She'll urge them to do more to help

:07:39.:07:41.

combat terrorist activity. The meeting was arranged

:07:42.:07:46.

before last week's terror That's a summary of the latest BBC

:07:47.:07:49.

News, more at 10.30. Thank you to Phillipa who texted

:07:50.:08:02.

saying, I was able and capable up until two years ago, I never felt

:08:03.:08:07.

I'd be mentally ill. I've been well supported by friends and family and

:08:08.:08:11.

the NHS. Since revealing my condition, many friends have

:08:12.:08:15.

admitted they also struggle with it. It's much more common than we think.

:08:16.:08:20.

Thank you very much. Do get in touch with us through the next hour of the

:08:21.:08:22.

programme. You don't have to use your name but

:08:23.:08:31.

I'm interesting to hear about the conversations you've had about your

:08:32.:08:34.

mental health, particularly the first conversation.

:08:35.:08:36.

We're hanging on for a decision from Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger

:08:37.:08:46.

And we're still in suspense, because Wenger refused to confirm

:08:47.:08:51.

He's been under increasing pressure in recent months,

:08:52.:08:55.

with Arsenal sitting sixth in the Premier League and four

:08:56.:08:57.

Here is what he said. I'm very clear in my mind, but anyway, I stay two

:08:58.:09:13.

months, two years, my commitment will be the same all the time. The

:09:14.:09:19.

time I've spent here is not influencing my attitude.

:09:20.:09:22.

Well our reporter David Ornstein was at that press

:09:23.:09:27.

conference and David, Wenger, seemed very relaxed.

:09:28.:09:33.

What wiz his demeanour like? He was the most comfortable in a pre-match

:09:34.:09:39.

news conference that I've seen him in quite a while. He looked

:09:40.:09:44.

refreshed after the last game, plenty of laughs. I think we know

:09:45.:09:47.

the direction in which we could be travelling here. It seems that

:09:48.:09:52.

Arsene Wenger wants to stay as Arsenal manager, the club want him

:09:53.:09:55.

to remain as Arsenal manager. We have known for a while that there's

:09:56.:09:59.

been a contract offer on the table for him, a two-year deal. That's

:10:00.:10:03.

perhaps why he mentioned two months or two years. He also said that it's

:10:04.:10:09.

not completely sorted out yet. That's why I don't think this is set

:10:10.:10:14.

in stone, it could go the other way depending on the atmosphere around

:10:15.:10:17.

the fan base and the result. They play Manchester City at the weekend

:10:18.:10:20.

and the FA Cup semi-finals towards the end of April, so it looks like

:10:21.:10:24.

Wenger is probably going to stay as Arsenal manager, sign a new deal,

:10:25.:10:31.

but that is not set in stone. It's not just speculation about his

:10:32.:10:36.

future but the future of Alexi Sanchez. He said he's happy but

:10:37.:10:40.

wants to be at a club with a winning mentality. What do you make of that?

:10:41.:10:45.

Will we see Sanchez in an Arsenal shirt next season? Wenger was asked

:10:46.:10:55.

what he made of those quotes which came from Chile where he was away.

:10:56.:11:00.

Wenger urged caution on the quotes but he said he takes them in a very

:11:01.:11:04.

positive way, tongue-in-cheek, there's only one team in London so

:11:05.:11:08.

he's happy is. I think personally he's happy here, I hope he will

:11:09.:11:12.

stay. You have to be very cautious when people give interviews in their

:11:13.:11:16.

home country. Now, he also spoke about how in the past Arsenal have

:11:17.:11:20.

had to sell some of their best players, the likes of van Persie and

:11:21.:11:24.

Fabregas, was that's not the case any more, he said, and they can keep

:11:25.:11:30.

hold of them. He reiterated that he hopes Sanchez and Ozil will sign new

:11:31.:11:34.

contracts. And the demeanour that Wenger gave off suggested he's

:11:35.:11:36.

pretty confident that both will stay. But it's a crucial two months

:11:37.:11:40.

now for Arsenal's season and you suppose that could make or break the

:11:41.:11:45.

future of both Wenger, Sanchez and Ozil. Crucial indeed. Thank you,

:11:46.:11:49.

David. More sport later. Today Prime Minister Theresa May

:11:50.:11:58.

will publish details of her plans for what's called

:11:59.:12:02.

the Great Repeal Bill although it should perhaps be called

:12:03.:12:05.

the Great Retention Bill because it's all about importing

:12:06.:12:07.

and retaining thousands and thousands of EU laws

:12:08.:12:10.

but enshrining them in British law. This process will have consequences

:12:11.:12:13.

for almost every sector of British business because it will allow

:12:14.:12:16.

the government to decide what maternity pay, holiday pay

:12:17.:12:19.

and pensions will look like. Our Political Guru Norman Smith

:12:20.:12:25.

is in Westminster. This is a huge job to download all

:12:26.:12:35.

the laws isn't it? It's massive, Vic. I mean, I can't recall anything

:12:36.:12:41.

as big as that in recent years. I mean, if you think we have been a

:12:42.:12:46.

member of the EU for over 40 years, during that time there have been

:12:47.:12:52.

thousands upon thousands, someone estimated 80,000 different EU rules,

:12:53.:12:55.

regulations, directives, all of which are now going to have to be

:12:56.:12:59.

rewritten so they apply in British law. So there's a massive

:13:00.:13:05.

undertaking and it's going to eat up a huge amount of Parliamentary time.

:13:06.:13:08.

That probably means there isn't going to be much scope for the

:13:09.:13:12.

Government to be able to do anything else because so much of its

:13:13.:13:15.

legislative energy will be devoted to this. It also leaves open the

:13:16.:13:20.

possibility that if MPs wanted to cause Mrs May grief, this Bill, as a

:13:21.:13:26.

vehicle for Brexit mutiny, it has the potential for MPs who want to

:13:27.:13:30.

cause trouble to cause trouble. Now, I don't think that's likely to

:13:31.:13:34.

happen because in the really contentious areas around say

:13:35.:13:36.

employment law or environment law, the Government already said don't

:13:37.:13:40.

worry, all that is going to go into British law exactly the same. If you

:13:41.:13:45.

listen to the man who used to be in charge of the admin of Commons

:13:46.:13:50.

business, the Clerk to the Commons, this morning he was warning that

:13:51.:13:55.

getting this done could take years after we have even left the EU. It

:13:56.:14:01.

won't just be two years. How long will it be? It could go on for a

:14:02.:14:08.

decade, the tidying up, the instant or the Brexit day arrangements have

:14:09.:14:11.

obviously got to be made because that is an unmissable deadline, but

:14:12.:14:15.

there'll be an awful lot to do after that.

:14:16.:14:20.

Interesting. What is the reaction in Europe about the idea that Mrs May

:14:21.:14:27.

is trying to potentially or suggesting linking security

:14:28.:14:30.

cooperation to a trade teal? You know, interestingly, we had that

:14:31.:14:34.

very conciliatory tone from Theresa May yesterday, the one thing that

:14:35.:14:40.

really jarred, the real snapth snag, was that linkage around security

:14:41.:14:44.

cooperation and a future Brexit trade deal. -- the real snag. The

:14:45.:14:53.

fire hose has been trying to dampen down the fact that they think this

:14:54.:15:02.

is blackmail central. If a way, when you think about it, they couldn't

:15:03.:15:08.

really do that. Could you imagine Britain not passing on information

:15:09.:15:11.

about terrorism and security threats to other EU countries, it's not

:15:12.:15:16.

really a runner. The point of it was more to sort of politely remind the

:15:17.:15:24.

rest of the EU of the benefits Britain brings to Europe. I don't

:15:25.:15:27.

think it was meant as a threat. Listening to David Davis this

:15:28.:15:31.

morning, in fact, you get the sense that they are determined, not just

:15:32.:15:34.

to maintain good relations with the rest of Europe, but to do so in

:15:35.:15:38.

order to ensure what they're hoping is going to be an incredibly

:15:39.:15:43.

generous and big deal. Have a listen to Mr Davis. The classical approach

:15:44.:15:49.

for a politician doing a negotiation is to reduce expectation. That's

:15:50.:15:53.

what people think is the sophisticated way. We are playing

:15:54.:15:57.

for the national interest here. I'm aiming as high as conceivably

:15:58.:15:59.

possible. I want the best possible benefits from the European Union,

:16:00.:16:02.

I'm not going to apologise for aiming for that. Achieving it of

:16:03.:16:05.

course is a matter of negotiation and negotiations are uncertain, but

:16:06.:16:07.

that's what we are aiming at. There will have to be big

:16:08.:16:26.

compromises and concessions. The difficulty faced by Theresa May is,

:16:27.:16:30.

she will have to bring her package back to Westminster to sell out to

:16:31.:16:33.

her backbenchers, and of course to ask other public.

:16:34.:16:44.

Some of Europe's leaders will be discussing Brexit amongst other

:16:45.:16:51.

things in Malta this morning. What kind of mood do you think they are

:16:52.:16:55.

in? I mean, there has been discussion of this potential link

:16:56.:16:59.

between security and trade, but overall, I think when they read the

:17:00.:17:04.

letter, there was the regret that we finally are leaving. And secondly, a

:17:05.:17:07.

sense of relief in many ways. The overall tone of the letter was

:17:08.:17:11.

actually pretty conciliatory, we need to work together, we need to

:17:12.:17:16.

get a deal which works for everyone. Was none of this, no deal is better

:17:17.:17:19.

than a bad deal, which we had heard from Teresa me before. What they are

:17:20.:17:24.

trying to do now is to work out exactly what their first formal

:17:25.:17:27.

response to the letter will be. Donald Tusk has said that by about

:17:28.:17:32.

this time tomorrow, he will release draft guidelines which will be

:17:33.:17:36.

debated in the other 27 Z and agreed in a month's time. Those guidelines

:17:37.:17:41.

will form the basis for the way the European Commission negotiates with

:17:42.:17:46.

the UK over the next few months. One thing we heard yesterday from Angela

:17:47.:17:49.

Merkel and I suspect she will repeat it when she speaks in the building

:17:50.:17:54.

here later today is that we do have to work on the principles of the

:17:55.:17:56.

divorce agreement first. That doesn't mean we have to cross every

:17:57.:18:12.

T and not every i. But we have to agree on that first. After that, we

:18:13.:18:16.

can then move on to talk about the things which the UK really wants to

:18:17.:18:20.

talk about, which is the future relationship, and trade and so

:18:21.:18:23.

forth. So there will be some disagreement about the structure of

:18:24.:18:29.

the talks, but I don't think it will necessarily be insurmountable.

:18:30.:18:32.

Reuters reporting, you may know about this, that Francois Hollande,

:18:33.:18:37.

outgoing French president, has found Teresa me to say pretty much what

:18:38.:18:41.

you have just said, that the talks must first be about the terms of

:18:42.:18:45.

withdrawal, dealing with citizens rights and obligations and

:18:46.:18:47.

commitments of the UK. Yeah. Everything I have heard is

:18:48.:19:07.

that people in the of EU are pretty united on this point, that this is

:19:08.:19:11.

the way they want it to be structured. In other words the

:19:12.:19:14.

commission would be pretty much forbidden to talk about trade at

:19:15.:19:18.

this stage. David Davis may say, we want to talk about trade now. But Mr

:19:19.:19:22.

Barnier will say, I've got no mandate to talk about that. We have

:19:23.:19:27.

to talk about the rights of EU citizens, and UK citizens elsewhere

:19:28.:19:31.

in the EU, the divorce bill, and possibly also the border between the

:19:32.:19:34.

Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. It is the only land border

:19:35.:19:39.

between the UK and a country which will remain in the EU. I think the

:19:40.:19:42.

European leaders are very aware of the need to address that early on.

:19:43.:19:48.

Let's talk about workers' rights, then. Much of the rights in this

:19:49.:19:55.

country are under EU law. They will be downloaded, copied and pasted,

:19:56.:19:59.

however you want to say it, into British law. Or will they? It is a

:20:00.:20:03.

concern for some people that not everything will be enshrined.

:20:04.:20:08.

We speak to Jane Malyon, a small business owner that

:20:09.:20:11.

employs five people, Schona Jolly who is a leading

:20:12.:20:13.

employment rights barrister and the TUC's employment rights

:20:14.:20:15.

Good morning, all of you. Hannah Reed, do you have any concerns?

:20:16.:20:23.

Well, the Prime Minister has made a commit and, a promised in public,

:20:24.:20:27.

that all rights from Europe will be protected and will be enshrined in

:20:28.:20:32.

UK law through the Great Repeal Bill. We will of course be getting

:20:33.:20:35.

the terms of that bill to make sure that every right is there. What

:20:36.:20:39.

we're saying to the government is, we need further assurances, that

:20:40.:20:42.

those rights will be protected for the long-term, and also that the UK

:20:43.:20:46.

doesn't fall behind the rest of our European partners. UK workers

:20:47.:20:51.

deserve the same rights as German workers, as those in France, Spain

:20:52.:20:56.

and Italy. What kind of rights are you talking about? Well, many of us

:20:57.:21:01.

probably don't realise that many of the rights we presume we have, we

:21:02.:21:05.

expect we have, come from Europe. The right to paid holidays, the

:21:06.:21:10.

right for equal treatment for agency workers, the rights for women who

:21:11.:21:15.

are pregnant to have paid time off to attend antenatal appointments,

:21:16.:21:17.

and also important and the discolouration laws, making sure

:21:18.:21:25.

that LGBT workers, black and ethnic minority workers, disabled workers,

:21:26.:21:27.

are not discrimination against in the workplace. Do you have concerns,

:21:28.:21:37.

Schona Jolly? I think there are a variety of really serious concerns.

:21:38.:21:42.

You have Theresa May saying, of course workers' rights will be

:21:43.:21:45.

protected. On the other hand, you have this great red tape challenge.

:21:46.:21:50.

And you have a lot of the reasons given by the pro-wreck camp as being

:21:51.:21:55.

directed. So you have that threat of the regulation, which we have heard

:21:56.:22:00.

reiterated by Prime Minister may herself. -- by the pro-Brexit camp.

:22:01.:22:07.

There is an inherent contrition and we have to see how they will square

:22:08.:22:10.

that circle. But there is also another concern. What we've lost, or

:22:11.:22:15.

what we will lose by the time that we Brexit, is the protection of the

:22:16.:22:24.

European institutions, the European laws, they are our floor, they are

:22:25.:22:31.

not a ceiling, they are a floor. What that means is that we will

:22:32.:22:35.

never stopped from protecting workers' rights in greater detail.

:22:36.:22:38.

But what we were stopped from was diminishing them below that floor.

:22:39.:22:43.

Now, once the Great Repeal Bill is through, once Brexit has taken

:22:44.:22:48.

place, in 2019 or whenever that is, it is likely that the Government

:22:49.:22:54.

will then have a sort of pick and mix approach to the laws that

:22:55.:22:58.

currently have been protected by Europe, that favour workers. So it's

:22:59.:23:04.

not just about what happens today in this white paper, it's not about

:23:05.:23:08.

even what happens by 2019, it is about safeguarding the future. Jane,

:23:09.:23:13.

tell us about the business that you run, Jane Malyon? I run the English

:23:14.:23:18.

cream tea company out in Essex and we send out afternoon tea hampers

:23:19.:23:21.

all over Great Britain, the sort that you would get in a London

:23:22.:23:26.

hotel, that type of afternoon tea, but we also export the delights of

:23:27.:23:30.

afternoon tea, except of course leaving out the cream and the

:23:31.:23:33.

sandwiches that would go off before it arrives in America and Australia.

:23:34.:23:38.

As an employer, in a small business, you have five members of staff, are

:23:39.:23:43.

there some EU laws that protect workers' rights that you would

:23:44.:23:47.

actually like to see junked because you regard them as bureaucratic?

:23:48.:23:54.

Yes. I can put on both hats because I am also a mother, and I have got

:23:55.:24:01.

sons out of employment, and I want them to have rights. Of course I

:24:02.:24:05.

love our employees and we want them to be well looked after. But as a

:24:06.:24:09.

micro-business, some of the laws are very own response on us and would

:24:10.:24:13.

stop us being able to expand at times. Give us an example. Well,

:24:14.:24:16.

we've just been through maternity leave with one of our lovely ladies,

:24:17.:24:21.

and so we want her to be well looked after, and of course, we did

:24:22.:24:26.

everything we could to help her with her maternity leave but she took a

:24:27.:24:30.

full year off. And for a tiny business, and at the time she was

:24:31.:24:33.

one third of our staff, we have expanded since. And so we were left

:24:34.:24:38.

floundering, not really able to replace her. You have to be careful

:24:39.:24:43.

with what you're doing. We don't want to go trick or tribunal, and we

:24:44.:24:47.

want to be fair to her and she is fantastic. But it left us limping

:24:48.:24:50.

for a year. And so the laws which could apply to larger companies who

:24:51.:24:53.

could perhaps cope much better with losing a third of their workforce

:24:54.:25:00.

surely shouldn't apply so rigorously two tiny little businesses? Let me

:25:01.:25:05.

be clear about that, are you saying that if you're a small business

:25:06.:25:09.

with, say, five members of staff, or three, as it was, women should have

:25:10.:25:15.

reduced but energy leave? No, I would like more government help for

:25:16.:25:18.

the business to support worker in that situation. OK, but you can

:25:19.:25:26.

claim back the maternity pay that you pay her? You can but it doesn't

:25:27.:25:30.

cover everything, it really doesn't. What are the other costs, then? It's

:25:31.:25:38.

covered all the basics, it certainly didn't cover her going off for

:25:39.:25:41.

medical and so on, and then the holiday leave and the bank holidays

:25:42.:25:45.

that have had to be accounted for, going forward. So it just didn't

:25:46.:25:52.

feel like we work with pro Crowe at all. I am sorry to interrupt, I am

:25:53.:25:58.

just trying to establish the facts - it didn't feel like it was quid pro

:25:59.:26:02.

quo, but was it? No, I don't believe so. Did you check the box? My

:26:03.:26:08.

husband runs that side of it, I'm sorry we have not got him sitting

:26:09.:26:12.

here to answer that. But we have really struggled with this. And do

:26:13.:26:16.

you think you would still be saying that if you had found someone to

:26:17.:26:20.

replace that woman? That wouldn't be appropriate because she is coming

:26:21.:26:23.

back to work as of next week and off we go again. I mean replaced the 12

:26:24.:26:28.

months, it is a long time to struggle on? It is and we took on

:26:29.:26:33.

various part-timers but it is never the central it takes a few weeks for

:26:34.:26:37.

them to hit the ground running and absorb what they have to do. And you

:26:38.:26:42.

might not get the same commitment from somebody who is only going to

:26:43.:26:45.

be with you for a short space of time. Hannah Reed, Schona Jolly, a

:26:46.:26:54.

reaction to that? We believe employment rights are very important

:26:55.:26:57.

for working people. People would be very hard-pressed to find anyone who

:26:58.:27:01.

voted to leave the European Union because they wanted to see fewer

:27:02.:27:05.

worker rights. We recognise that there may be a case for greater

:27:06.:27:09.

support for small businesses from the Government, for individuals who

:27:10.:27:11.

take maternity leave and who take time off. But more importantly we

:27:12.:27:15.

would argue that everybody, regardless of whether you work for a

:27:16.:27:19.

small large business, should get basic and settlements, including the

:27:20.:27:25.

ability to take maternity leave. Obviously, there are government

:27:26.:27:27.

agencies which can support small businesses to help them to recruit

:27:28.:27:31.

to cover maternity leave. I think what's very interesting about those

:27:32.:27:39.

comments are that Jane is not asking actually for maternity provisions to

:27:40.:27:42.

be reduced, she's actually asking the government help. I think that

:27:43.:27:47.

probably just makes Hannah Reed's point, that actually people are not

:27:48.:27:50.

looking for a reduction in workers' rights. And so there really does

:27:51.:27:55.

need to be commitment not just now but beyond 2019 for those rights to

:27:56.:27:58.

be protected. Thank you all. Good luck with the business. Thank you

:27:59.:28:07.

very much for all your comments about the conversations you have had

:28:08.:28:10.

about mental health and your own experiences. This e-mail from

:28:11.:28:15.

Carol... I'm almost 63 and I've had depression and anxiety for as long

:28:16.:28:18.

as I can remember. I was born in 1954, my father was a violent

:28:19.:28:23.

alcoholic. My mum also drank. They both smoked and neither of them

:28:24.:28:27.

showed us any love. I can only describe my childhood as a refuge of

:28:28.:28:31.

I'm so glad that people are bringing this situation into the present day

:28:32.:28:34.

and encouraging others to talk about it. I hope future generations will

:28:35.:28:38.

get the care and support that my family never got. Sharon says...

:28:39.:28:42.

Because of the stigma around mental health, my 15-year-old daughter

:28:43.:28:45.

tried to take her life to stop the voices in her head. I believe if

:28:46.:28:50.

mental health was talked about more in school, children like my daughter

:28:51.:28:53.

might not struggle as much and for as long. She's now diagnosed with

:28:54.:29:00.

psychosis, paranoid episodes and depression. It's going to be a long

:29:01.:29:04.

road but her mental health team are very good. Thank you very much for

:29:05.:29:08.

those. I've got so many, I will try to read as many as I can before the

:29:09.:29:13.

end of the programme. If you want to talk to somebody, if you're

:29:14.:29:16.

experiencing mental health issues, then you can get more information

:29:17.:29:19.

and support and advice from the BBC's Action line page. Still to

:29:20.:29:37.

come... The story of the leading Bitcoin developer who went to fight

:29:38.:29:42.

in Syria. And should you be jailed for revenge pornography? We will

:29:43.:29:46.

speak to one young woman who thinks her ex wasn't punished enough.

:29:47.:29:53.

Plans to repatriate more than forty years worth of powers

:29:54.:29:56.

from the European Union will start this morning with the publication

:29:57.:30:00.

The Government paper intends to convert thousands of EU

:30:01.:30:05.

House of Commons officials have described the process as one

:30:06.:30:10.

of the largest legislative projects ever undertaken in the UK.

:30:11.:30:15.

Brexit Secretary David Davis explained how it will work.

:30:16.:30:21.

What it does first off so that people understand, it takes all of

:30:22.:30:26.

the 40 years of European law up to the point when we leave and it puts

:30:27.:30:33.

it into UK law. That is not a straightforward process but it's a

:30:34.:30:38.

limited process. We do that in a way that it work, so a that all the law

:30:39.:30:41.

continues to work. That means when we start on the EU trade deal, we

:30:42.:30:45.

are in the same place as every other country in Europe. After that, we'll

:30:46.:30:50.

have to do legislation on immigration, customs and other

:30:51.:30:53.

things and that will be done substantially by Parliament, though

:30:54.:30:56.

there'll be a number of such laws I think. Parliament will make those

:30:57.:30:59.

decisions. This is a big transformation. We shouldn't

:31:00.:31:02.

underestimate that we've got a task to do. It's moment us to but it's

:31:03.:31:05.

not beyond us. The Insurance Market,

:31:06.:31:08.

Lloyd's of London, says it will open a new office in Brussels

:31:09.:31:11.

in early 2019. Lloyds says it's concerned that once

:31:12.:31:14.

the UK has left the EU, it will lose the right

:31:15.:31:17.

to sell its products A retired college lecturer

:31:18.:31:19.

who is terminally ill has lost a High Court bid to challenge

:31:20.:31:23.

the law on assisted dying. Neil Conway, who is 67 and has

:31:24.:31:26.

motor neurone disease, says the 1961 Suicide Act

:31:27.:31:29.

condemns him to an undignified Some news just in. A man has been

:31:30.:31:46.

arrested in Dudley after three members of same family were found

:31:47.:31:50.

stabbed at their home. Police were called to an address in Stourbridge

:31:51.:31:53.

where they found a man, woman and boy with serious injuries. A car

:31:54.:31:56.

stolen from outside the house was stopped by police and a man in his

:31:57.:32:01.

20s was arrested. More on that developing story as we get it. A

:32:02.:32:07.

privately owned helicopter with five people on board has disappeared over

:32:08.:32:11.

North Wales. It's believed to have been travelling from Milton Keynes

:32:12.:32:14.

to Dublin via Caernarfon bay. A land search is under way but the aerial

:32:15.:32:18.

search has been suspended due to poor wealth. Organisers of the

:32:19.:32:22.

Oscars say they'll continue to work with the accountancy firm PWC

:32:23.:32:26.

despite the mistake which led to La La Land being wrongly announced as

:32:27.:32:31.

winner of Best Picture instead of Moonlight. This is the moment

:32:32.:32:34.

Hollywood realised someone didn't follow the script last month to make

:32:35.:32:37.

sure a similar mistake doesn't happen next year there'll be an

:32:38.:32:41.

extra accountant on hand and electronic devices will be banned

:32:42.:32:43.

backstage. That's a summary of the latest

:32:44.:32:45.

news - join me for BBC We're hanging on for a decision

:32:46.:32:48.

from Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger And we're still in suspense,

:32:49.:33:00.

because Wenger refused to confirm He's been under increasing

:33:01.:33:04.

pressure in recent months, with Arsenal sitting sixth

:33:05.:33:09.

in the Premier League and four Jo Pavey says it's a bitter sweet

:33:10.:33:20.

feeling to receive a medal ten years after the race. She was upgraded

:33:21.:33:25.

after the athlete who took the silver was disqualified for doping.

:33:26.:33:30.

Johanna Konta is into the semi-finals of the him Mile Open.

:33:31.:33:35.

She'll face Venus Williams next in the last four, to be played

:33:36.:33:38.

overnight. Manchester City's women take on a 1-0 aggregate lead into

:33:39.:33:42.

the Champions League quarter-finals second leg at home to Danish side

:33:43.:33:49.

Fortuna. Best of luck to them. That's all the sport.

:33:50.:33:58.

Police can face a backlog of up to five months to analyse computers

:33:59.:34:01.

linked to suspected paedophiles, a report by an MP has found.

:34:02.:34:05.

Ann Coffey highlighted the delays as part of a study into child sexual

:34:06.:34:08.

The report found the number of "known or suspected" child sex

:34:09.:34:12.

offenders in the region had risen to 1,139, double the number

:34:13.:34:18.

Probably worth reminding our audience in terms of what you found

:34:19.:34:29.

in the report, then we can compare and contrast.

:34:30.:34:32.

What I found was that there were attitudes which blamed the children

:34:33.:34:36.

for their own sexual exploitation. Some were seen as prostitutes, some

:34:37.:34:40.

were seen as making a lifestyle choice. Of course, that created

:34:41.:34:44.

barrier, because victims, if they feel they are not going to be

:34:45.:34:48.

blamed, are not going to come forward and say they've been

:34:49.:34:54.

sexually abused. So I looked at some aspects of that report and found

:34:55.:34:59.

that there was a greater awareness and understanding of child sexual

:35:00.:35:03.

exploitation among the police, other agencies and the public. That of

:35:04.:35:08.

course has led to a higher level of reporting of child sexual offences

:35:09.:35:12.

against children which is shocking when it begins to reveal the extent

:35:13.:35:21.

of child abuse in Greater Manchester and probably they're still

:35:22.:35:24.

unreported particularly in relation to child sexual ex-employmentation

:35:25.:35:28.

of boys. But that increase in the number of people reporting is a good

:35:29.:35:32.

thing, however it has a knock-on effect for the police and the

:35:33.:35:35.

resources they can put to this crime and what has been the knock-on oaf?

:35:36.:35:46.

-- child sexual exploitation. 85% of Child Exploitation begins

:35:47.:35:54.

online. Now, it's very important to disrupt that activity quickly

:35:55.:35:58.

because the paedophiles can contact many, many, many children. So any

:35:59.:36:03.

delay in seizing their computer, examining the evidence, prosecuting

:36:04.:36:06.

them, means that other children are put in danger. So it's very, very

:36:07.:36:11.

important that the police have the resources to disrupt this activity

:36:12.:36:16.

by these paedophiles. According to your report, bliss received just

:36:17.:36:21.

over 10,000 pieces of intelligence between October 2014 and June 2016,

:36:22.:36:28.

including anonymous tip-offs in terms of child sexual exploitation.

:36:29.:36:32.

Almost half of those against girls and boys under the age of 13. If

:36:33.:36:38.

they don't have the resources to disrupt, as you put it what the

:36:39.:36:41.

paedophiles are doing, what will be the impact? Well, we really need to

:36:42.:36:46.

prevent children being sexually abused. Of course, one of the most

:36:47.:36:51.

important things to do is to give children information. So schools are

:36:52.:36:55.

very important making sure that children have the information, the

:36:56.:36:59.

knowledge, so that they understand when they are being groomed. They

:37:00.:37:04.

themselves can disrupt the activity and reports it to the police. It's

:37:05.:37:09.

important that the wider community protects children because the police

:37:10.:37:17.

can't do it alone. This is why these 10,000 pieces of intelligence are

:37:18.:37:19.

important coming from the community. It's important for the police to use

:37:20.:37:25.

what they have at their disposal to disrupt activities by people they

:37:26.:37:28.

suspect trying the groom children to sex abuse them. But the point is,

:37:29.:37:33.

from what you have discovered, any delay in examining the devices, that

:37:34.:37:39.

means that the paedophile is potentially continuing to groom and

:37:40.:37:45.

abuse other children? Of course. They'll continue to do it until

:37:46.:37:48.

they're arrested and charged and until they're put on the Sex

:37:49.:37:52.

Offenders' Register where they can be supervised and monitored. So it's

:37:53.:37:56.

critically important that the police get the resources so ensure that

:37:57.:38:01.

they can disrupt the activity of paedophiles who're trying to contact

:38:02.:38:03.

children online as quickly as possible. Of course, because there

:38:04.:38:09.

is this kind of forensic evidence available on the computer, it leads

:38:10.:38:14.

to a high number of prosecutions and convictions, meaning more children

:38:15.:38:16.

are safe. Thank you very much.

:38:17.:38:27.

Amir Taaki is a leading developer of the online currency Bitcoin.

:38:28.:38:40.

But now he's revealed to the BBC that he has

:38:41.:38:42.

been fighting in Syria, and is now under

:38:43.:38:44.

So why would a computer hacker go to war?

:38:45.:38:47.

I went there with the mindset that whatever I need to do, I'm willing

:38:48.:38:54.

But I had to learn how to fight in the war.

:38:55.:38:57.

What training did you have, and how were

:38:58.:38:59.

I had no training, and I was given a Kalashnikov and four

:39:00.:39:03.

The other foreigners, when we were on the way,

:39:04.:39:12.

Amir Taaki is known for inhabiting the darkest corners of

:39:13.:39:16.

A master of coding and a hacker, he gained fame building

:39:17.:39:21.

software to enable anonymous transactions with Bitcoin,

:39:22.:39:25.

potentially untraceable by governments and banks.

:39:26.:39:28.

Bitcoin, just like the internet and these other

:39:29.:39:31.

tools, it's one of these equalising technologies that everybody has

:39:32.:39:35.

But now, Amir Taaki has revealed that in 2015 he travelled

:39:36.:39:41.

to Syria and began fighting on the front lines

:39:42.:39:45.

What had you told your family about where you were going?

:39:46.:39:51.

I didn't tell them anything, because I didn't want

:39:52.:39:53.

them to stop me, I didn't want them to tell the police.

:39:54.:39:57.

So, why would a computer hacker go to war?

:39:58.:40:00.

The Kurdish units Amir Taaki said he fought

:40:01.:40:03.

with are recognised as the

:40:04.:40:06.

West's most important ally in the deadly ground war against IS.

:40:07.:40:09.

But the Kurds are also creating a new type

:40:10.:40:12.

They say their revolutionary ideas are creating

:40:13.:40:16.

communities much freer from state control.

:40:17.:40:18.

And this, Amir Taaki says, is what inspired him to go.

:40:19.:40:22.

There's this atmosphere in the Society of

:40:23.:40:25.

people working for something bigger than themselves.

:40:26.:40:30.

In the wake of IS terror, their vision, to live with

:40:31.:40:33.

Eventually, Amir Taaki says he left the fighting and went on to develop

:40:34.:40:37.

local projects with the Syrian Kurds.

:40:38.:40:40.

We will build facilities to process collected waste, to make

:40:41.:40:43.

low-cost, highly efficient fertiliser.

:40:44.:40:54.

Like this crowdfunding campaign which he says raised money

:40:55.:40:57.

and then built fertiliser factories to help Syrian farmers grow more

:40:58.:40:59.

They're trying to create a people's economy, by the people, for

:41:00.:41:06.

To help establish a decentralised economy, you need

:41:07.:41:10.

This place is under embargo, so there's no way to

:41:11.:41:15.

move money in and out, so we have to actually

:41:16.:41:18.

create our own Bitcoin economy here if we want to establish

:41:19.:41:21.

But keeping transactions secret has also led to

:41:22.:41:32.

warnings that Bitcoin could be used to help money-laundering and

:41:33.:41:35.

And when Amir Taaki returned to the UK, he found

:41:36.:41:39.

his activities had raised the suspicions

:41:40.:41:43.

of the authorities, which had a grave effect.

:41:44.:41:45.

They stopped the plane, and they arrested me and

:41:46.:41:50.

investigated me for one year under the terrorism act.

:41:51.:41:53.

They confiscate phones and everything, and they have

:41:54.:41:57.

an investigation against me that's open indefinitely.

:41:58.:42:02.

Some might say you've been in a war zone, picked up

:42:03.:42:05.

Isn't it right that the security services will have

:42:06.:42:10.

to take an interest in someone like you and find

:42:11.:42:13.

Sure, but there is a lot of foreigners have gone to join YPG.

:42:14.:42:19.

Amir Taaki has spent the last 12 months on police bail.

:42:20.:42:23.

You think, because of your skills as a hacker,

:42:24.:42:27.

you think the authorities are taking a greater interest in you?

:42:28.:42:32.

In the eyes of the law, have you become involved in Fort

:42:33.:42:41.

In the eyes of the law, have you become involved in what

:42:42.:42:44.

I don't support terrorism or terrorist acts.

:42:45.:42:50.

Why not just use your other skills right from the start?

:42:51.:42:55.

I went there with the idea that whatever is

:42:56.:42:57.

You contributed to violence - how do you

:42:58.:43:01.

I'm very proud of having fought against Isis.

:43:02.:43:05.

You've been warned you risk breaking counterterror laws.

:43:06.:43:08.

This could have very serious consequences for your

:43:09.:43:12.

You know, if I have to go back, I'll go back.

:43:13.:43:25.

You could work in Silicon Valley, you could have an

:43:26.:43:28.

amazing career with your skills - why not take that route?

:43:29.:43:31.

That's our objective as human beings.

:43:32.:43:36.

But along with Amir Taaki's vision of a

:43:37.:43:39.

new world, it's also clear his technology may be of use to

:43:40.:43:44.

potential extremists as well as to the communities he is trying to

:43:45.:43:47.

And Emma Vardy, who you saw in that report joins me now.

:43:48.:43:51.

How many people go to Syria to fight IS?

:43:52.:43:55.

It's just really difficult to know because some people are very public

:43:56.:44:00.

about it and others are much more under the radar. Amir says he went

:44:01.:44:07.

to fight with the YPG. Other people join other Kurdish groups called the

:44:08.:44:11.

Peshmerga. The YPG claims hundreds of volunteers have fought with them,

:44:12.:44:14.

people from all over the world. We know Canada, America and even

:44:15.:44:15.

Australia. The Kurdish group is not banned

:44:16.:44:18.

here, but that's not This is where it gets politically

:44:19.:44:27.

difficult. Although the YPG are known to have been successful in

:44:28.:44:32.

towns and villages, they've taken back IS-held territory, but the

:44:33.:44:35.

Kurds also have a deep-rooted history of conflict with Turkey.

:44:36.:44:39.

Turkey does consider the YPG a terror organisation, so for people

:44:40.:44:42.

going to join this conflict, it's difficult territory. What do the

:44:43.:44:51.

police say? They say again and again don't go to Syria and the Met Police

:44:52.:44:55.

have issued warnings saying, if you play any role, you can expect to be

:44:56.:44:58.

questioned at the very least when you come back. In a statement the

:44:59.:45:03.

police told me those who've committed criminal offences can

:45:04.:45:06.

expect to be prosecuted. However any December six on whether to

:45:07.:45:11.

prosecution will be taken by the CPS on a case by case basis -- however

:45:12.:45:17.

any decisions on whether to prosecute. It's difficult for us as

:45:18.:45:23.

journalists to independently verify a story like Amir's and with him,

:45:24.:45:26.

perhaps the Security Services aren't sure where to place him. We'll see

:45:27.:45:29.

more cases like this to come. Thank you very much.

:45:30.:45:37.

Thank you to Laura, who has e-mailed about mental health which we have

:45:38.:45:48.

been talking a lot about this morning, because of a campaign led

:45:49.:45:53.

by Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry. Laura says, I was

:45:54.:45:58.

overjoyed to hear your programme this morning. I was a full-time

:45:59.:46:03.

working single mum, earning a 6-figure salary, putting my son

:46:04.:46:06.

through private school and doing bits of charity fundraising through

:46:07.:46:10.

the marathon and things. Basically on the go, always busy and in pretty

:46:11.:46:13.

good physical shape. Over a period of around 18 months, I suddenly

:46:14.:46:18.

found myself struggling to make decisions, losing self-confidence

:46:19.:46:21.

and generally thinking I was getting dementia. I was incredibly down and

:46:22.:46:25.

had no-one to speak to. Eventually, on the last night of a holiday with

:46:26.:46:29.

my son, I couldn't sleep and I sat bolt upright all night long. When I

:46:30.:46:32.

got back from holiday I went to see my GP. And he simply suggested that

:46:33.:46:36.

my life as it was was not sustainable. I finally felt like I

:46:37.:46:42.

had permission to take my foot off the pedal. My lifestyle is very

:46:43.:46:46.

different today but I am happy and I get to spend much more time now with

:46:47.:46:50.

my ten-year-old son. My simple mission is to get women talking, and

:46:51.:46:53.

if I can prevent one woman from going through what I did, all one

:46:54.:46:57.

boss going through what my boss did, I will know I'm doing the right

:46:58.:47:00.

thing. Thank you very much for that, Laura. Next on the programme...

:47:01.:47:07.

For the victims, it's a devastating crime that has led to some people

:47:08.:47:10.

Yet revenge pornography wasn't made a crime until April 2015.

:47:11.:47:17.

It carries with it a maximum prison term of two years,

:47:18.:47:19.

but today, for the first time, guidelines have been drafted

:47:20.:47:22.

for courts dealing with those convicted of disclosing

:47:23.:47:24.

Behaviour designed to cause maximum distress -

:47:25.:47:28.

such as sending images to a victim's family who are very religious,

:47:29.:47:35.

or to their young siblings - will be dealt with in

:47:36.:47:38.

But are the sentences tough enough and will the guidelines

:47:39.:47:41.

With us now are Dr Anne Olivarius, a lawyer who represents revenge porn

:47:42.:47:46.

victims and Keeley Richards-Shaw, whose ex became the first person

:47:47.:47:50.

to be convicted of revenge pornography under the new laws.

:47:51.:47:54.

Thank you very much for talking to us. Starting with you, Keeley

:47:55.:48:00.

Richards-Shaw, you and your ex have been separated for some time, and

:48:01.:48:07.

you discovered after sometime separated, that he had photographs

:48:08.:48:10.

of you naked, how did you discover this? Well, I was made aware by his

:48:11.:48:17.

then girlfriend, who message me the pictures that he sent to her and

:48:18.:48:21.

said, you need to know what he's doing, this is it. I saw them and I

:48:22.:48:24.

did not even know that he had got these pictures. And he just wanted a

:48:25.:48:32.

reaction from the, really, because I was ignoring him, he wanted a

:48:33.:48:36.

reaction. And what did he do with the pictures, he shared them with

:48:37.:48:40.

his then girlfriend and there was one large image and then there was a

:48:41.:48:44.

laptop with about 15 other images on its. How did it make you feel?

:48:45.:48:50.

Awful. I was embarrassed, I was degraded, I didn't really know what

:48:51.:48:56.

to do. Fair enough, I know some people allow pictures to be taken in

:48:57.:48:59.

relationships, but I would not allow that and I did not even know the

:49:00.:49:02.

pictures had been taken, it was horrendous. It was part of a broader

:49:03.:49:09.

pattern I think of behaviour from him, where he was trying to get a

:49:10.:49:13.

reaction from you, or control you - what was it in the end that made you

:49:14.:49:19.

want decide to go to the police? People had been saying for a while,

:49:20.:49:23.

you need to go to the police because there was also stalking offences is

:49:24.:49:27.

there as well. He would turn up at my house, he would follow me to

:49:28.:49:30.

work. These pictures was the final thing. Even when I saw them on the

:49:31.:49:34.

screen, I still didn't really know what to do because I did not want to

:49:35.:49:38.

go to the police. And then I spoke to my mum about it, and sushi she

:49:39.:49:43.

said, no, this isn't right. I went to the police not knowing anything

:49:44.:49:47.

about the new law. So I started with stalking and then gradually got onto

:49:48.:49:50.

the photographs and that was when they told me about the new law which

:49:51.:49:54.

had come in. What sentence was he given in the end? He was given a 13

:49:55.:50:00.

week sentence suspended for 12 months, fined and community service.

:50:01.:50:06.

But also there was stalking offences in that as well. So it was a 13 week

:50:07.:50:11.

jail sentence suspended for a period of time. In other words, there was

:50:12.:50:17.

no custody. No. He also got a restraining the restraining order,

:50:18.:50:29.

which he broke and it is still to go through court. Let me bring in Dr

:50:30.:50:34.

Anne Olivarius. Can you tell our audience a little bit about the new

:50:35.:50:39.

guidelines? As I read them, only if the victim is considered vulnerable

:50:40.:50:46.

will there be a prison sentence? Of course we don't know how these will

:50:47.:50:53.

be interpreted yet. It is a very weak law, it hasn't been applied

:50:54.:51:00.

with vigour and determination. One feels almost its not taken

:51:01.:51:04.

seriously. From the judicial site, you don't know how they're going to

:51:05.:51:10.

respond until they start to actually sentence people. But certainly, it

:51:11.:51:15.

doesn't warm our hearts. Is it weak because of the way it has been

:51:16.:51:19.

drafted, or is it week because the judges are just not putting it into

:51:20.:51:25.

practice? The law itself is weak because it focuses on intent. So

:51:26.:51:32.

there are three parts of a law. If a man, because mostly it is a crime

:51:33.:51:36.

against women, 90% of the victims are women, so if a man says, I'm

:51:37.:51:42.

just going to have a good time, I'm having a good time with the lads and

:51:43.:51:45.

we're just going to to throw these pictures up, it's fine, it's not

:51:46.:51:48.

against the law. If you say, and then make some money and send these

:51:49.:51:52.

all over the internet, that's not against the law. It's only if you

:51:53.:51:56.

say, I'm intending to hurt her feelings, to degrade and humiliate

:51:57.:52:01.

her, as happened to this good woman here, then that is against the law.

:52:02.:52:04.

So it's a very narrow interpretation of the law. And it's about what he

:52:05.:52:09.

intended to do, not about her consent. Did she consent, was she

:52:10.:52:20.

even aware? So it's not about consent, or distress caused, either.

:52:21.:52:28.

Exactly, it is all about him, still. My understanding from the

:52:29.:52:31.

Exactly, it is all about him, still. My understanding from can post

:52:32.:52:34.

sexual images online and cause major distress and be spared jail. Only if

:52:35.:52:40.

the victim is considered vulnerable will there be a prison sentence.

:52:41.:52:48.

Killie, did you consider yourself vulnerable at the time when your ex

:52:49.:52:53.

went to court? At the time, I did, yeah. It got a lot of publicity as

:52:54.:53:00.

well. But whether or not you're vulnerable, people put on a good

:53:01.:53:06.

face sometimes, so no matter how they are shared, or who they are

:53:07.:53:09.

shared with, I think it should still be the same punishment, because

:53:10.:53:13.

those pictures are still being shared. I didn't know the pictured

:53:14.:53:17.

had even been taken, which makes it even worse, really. It's breaking

:53:18.:53:23.

that trust. But I think they need punishing for sharing pictures with

:53:24.:53:26.

whoever. By that, do you mean a jail sentence for every revenge

:53:27.:53:33.

pornography perpetrator? I do, yeah. It has ruined people's lives. I had

:53:34.:53:39.

the press on my doorstep, and we were trying through the campaign to

:53:40.:53:43.

keep the names of victims out of the press. But should I think there

:53:44.:53:53.

needs to be a prison sentence. As a lawyer, Dr Anne Olivarius, what do

:53:54.:53:56.

we need to improve the conviction rate, a redrafting of the law?

:53:57.:54:03.

Certainly think you need a civil law, you need to be able to go after

:54:04.:54:07.

damages, money damages, society understands that. That needs the

:54:08.:54:12.

victim to pay for that, doesn't it? No, because there are law firms like

:54:13.:54:16.

ours, we represent victims all the time. If there were damages at the

:54:17.:54:21.

end which could be collectable, that would make a big difference. The

:54:22.:54:25.

police attitude has to change. We have a very well-known case, where

:54:26.:54:30.

she was filmed being raped after she became paralytic drunk with her ex

:54:31.:54:37.

partner. He filmed her, she didn't know it, he put this up on a website

:54:38.:54:41.

and we went to the Met and said, laughing we would like to take this

:54:42.:54:44.

forward under the new law. Their response was, no. And when we

:54:45.:54:49.

queried it, they said, there was a sex toy which he had put into the

:54:50.:54:53.

picture and somehow, that was her fault. The second reason which made

:54:54.:55:00.

us realise we had no chance to have this reconsidered is that she had

:55:01.:55:04.

shaved her pubic hair, and any girl that did that, clearly had the

:55:05.:55:07.

intention to give pictures and engage in this behaviour. I cannot

:55:08.:55:16.

believe that, oh, my god. That is how we felt. There are very few

:55:17.:55:19.

prosecutions under the law. People say, not enough police services.

:55:20.:55:26.

Fine. Have the person, if found guilty, pay a fine, and let that

:55:27.:55:31.

money perhaps even go to pay for the police services to investigate

:55:32.:55:34.

further. There's no reason that the Government should have to pay for

:55:35.:55:36.

this. That the system pay for it themselves. Thank you very much.

:55:37.:55:43.

Killie, thank you very much for coming onto the programme again.

:55:44.:55:52.

Next, completely changing the tone, let's talk about this statue of

:55:53.:55:56.

Cristiano Ronaldo. It has been unveiled on the Portuguese island of

:55:57.:56:00.

Madeira. When they unveiled it, he was putting on a brave face. He did

:56:01.:56:12.

sort of laugh at it. At the moment where they pulled the Vale of the

:56:13.:56:19.

bust, he was smiling and trying to look reasonably pleased to. Loads of

:56:20.:56:25.

people on social media, as you can imagine, have been not very come

:56:26.:56:28.

from entry, questioning whether it even resembles him. So, some of you

:56:29.:56:34.

think it looks like Geoff Boycott. It is not the first time works of

:56:35.:56:37.

art have received attention for the wrong reasons. Andy Murray,

:56:38.:56:41.

immortalised as a terracotta warrior after winning a tournament in

:56:42.:56:44.

Shanghai. That looks like Geoff Hurst! In fact, all the statues look

:56:45.:56:53.

like people whose Christian name is Geoff! And we have got one to

:56:54.:56:57.

recognise the career of Newcastle United legend Anil Shearer. -- Alan

:56:58.:57:04.

Shearer. After that, Alan Shearer joked, he liked the almost 9ft tall

:57:05.:57:10.

statue because it had hair! The owner of Fulham, Mohamed Al Fayed,

:57:11.:57:16.

put up a 7ft tall statue of Michael Jackson in 2011 which was so

:57:17.:57:22.

embarrassing for Fulham fans, it is now in the National Football Museum.

:57:23.:57:27.

And who could forget the work of an amateur art restorer in a small

:57:28.:57:29.

village in Spain. The woman attempted to fix a fresco of the

:57:30.:57:35.

face of Jesus. Her work became a national joke, but had the last

:57:36.:57:39.

laugh as the village saw a huge increase in tourism. I need to read

:57:40.:57:44.

this e-mail from Dominic. I don't know if I have time it's about

:57:45.:57:53.

mental health. I found my father dead at our home after he committed

:57:54.:57:55.

suicide when I was 16. Three years later, shortly after I started

:57:56.:58:02.

university, I broke down. And then I opened the floodgates to my friends

:58:03.:58:09.

and was amazed by their reactions. I now have an incredible group of

:58:10.:58:13.

people that carry me through my toughest days. My friends from

:58:14.:58:19.

school and others. And most of them are men of we now see talking,

:58:20.:58:24.

sharing and sharing emotion as the bond that strengthens our emotion.

:58:25.:58:28.

Thank you very much, dominant. Thanks to all of you who have got in

:58:29.:58:31.

touch today. We really appreciate it.

:58:32.:58:32.

Discover the world's most fascinating hotels...

:58:33.:58:37.

..and go behind the scenes with Giles Coren...

:58:38.:58:40.