04/04/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

On the programme today, a hospital in leeds says allowing

mums and dads to do the caring for their own premature baby,

is having a dramatic and beneficial effect.

We've had exclusive access to the neo-natal unit.

It's just nice to feel like a mum instead of just somebody watched --

stood watching. I could feel her and she felt safe.

We bring you that report before 9:30.

Also on the programme - campaigners are calling

on the government to rethink cuts to payments for bereaved parents

They've been described as callous and brutal by critics.

And will the FA punish the Sunderland manager,

David Moyes, for saying this to a female reporter?

It was just getting a wee bit naughty at the end. Just watch

yourself. You still might get a slap even though you are a woman.

Hello. Welcome to the programme.

We will bring you the latest news and developing stories.

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking

about this morning - use the hashtag Victoria live.

And if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

Our top story today - Russian investigators are thought

to have identified the man suspected of killing 11 people

in the St Petersburg underground attack.

49 people were injured in the explosion between the two

underground stations yesterday afternoon.

In Russia's second city, a show of grief and solidarity.

President Vladimir Putin was in St Petersburg

Above the station where the bombed train ended its journey,

he paid his respects to those killed and injured on Monday afternoon.

From underground, images have emerged of the mangled Metro train -

doors blown out, passengers trying to escape the wreckage,

Local media are reporting that the suspect is a man

in his 20s from Central Asia but there are conflicting reports as

TRANSLATION: Law enforcement bodies and special services are working

and will do all they can in order to find out the cause

At a nearby station, a second explosive device

Security has been tightened across the country.

Officials say this was an act of terror.

Yet, at this makeshift memorial, Russians remained

TRANSLATION: I am certain that we Russians will not be divided.

At this precise moment, all people of all faiths,

all religions, and all political borders, everyone

In recent years there have been several attacks on Russia's planes,

Once again, ordinary Russians are asking how and why their loved

ones asking how and why their loved ones were killed.

Live to Moscow and our correspondent. How might President

Putin react? There is talk that the investigation, which just started,

may have some political results because it has been known for the

Russian authorities to make reaction which is not immediately connected

to fighting terror. For example, in the Bellas school siege in 2004, Mr

Putin cancelled regional elections for the governments. Analysts still

struggle to see the connection. Obviously it is still too early to

say. There are presidential elections next year. The theme of

security, according to some analysts, would be a convenient one

to play upon in preparation. Once again, none of this has happened

yet. There are no statements coming from the authorities, not even from

the investigation itself. Most of the talking is being done by

security services elsewhere. Thank you very much.

Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

A group of MPs has accused the government of making

"unsubstantiated claims" about the potential impact

of failing to reach a Brexit deal with the EU.

The Exiting the EU Committee report criticised

the Prime Minister's position that no deal was better than

a bad deal, and called on the government to carry out

But some of the committee members say the report is rushed

Theresa May responded by saying that it is in both the UK

and the EU's interest to strike a good deal.

I've been very clear that I want to get the best deal possible for the

UK from these negotiations with the European Union. I think that would

be a good deal for the EU. The EU itself has said it wants a good

future relationship with us. I was clearing the letter I sent to Donald

Tusk in triggering Article 50, that if we don't get a deal, we fall back

on WTO arrangements for trade. I don't think that is in the interest

of either side. That is why we will both be working to make sure we get

the best possible deal. Researchers say they are closer

to understanding why firefighters are at such a high risk of suffering

heart attacks.The authors of a new study say firefighters'

blood becomes sticky at high temperatures and their blood

vessels fail to relax Experienced firefighter Simon

McNally used to train new recruits. It meant several times a day he was

exposed to fires of almost 1000 Celsius. Then one day at work he had

a heart attack. I was in denial. You are hoping it is something else. You

are hoping it is not going to be as sinister as a heart attack. It came

as a bit of a shock. We keep ourselves reasonably fit in the fire

service. We have departed standard test every year. It was a bit

confusing to be faced with those symptoms. Heart attacks are the

leading cause of death for front line firefighters. Studies in

America shown almost half of all firefighters who died on Judy are

killed by heart problems. The new research carried out by Edinburgh

University monitored the heart of 19 healthy firefighters during mock

rescues. It found body temperatures rose by one Celsius and remained

high for a up to four hours afterwards. Blood pressure that's my

blood vessels failed to react -- relax and the blood became stickier,

forming potentially harmful clots. Scientists believe the reason was

the extreme physical exertion and heat. They say simple measures like

staying hydrated and breaks are vital for saving the lives of

firefighters. British scientists say they've

created a sieve capable of removing It uses a derivative of graphene,

a fine sheet of carbon The development, at the University

of Manchester, has the potential to improve access to clean drinking

water for millions of The Church of England has accused

cadbury and the National Trust of "airbrushing faith",

after it dropped the word "Easter" The Archbishop of York,

John Sentamu, described the decision as "spitting on the grave"

of John Cadbury, the The National Trust said

the accusations were nonsense. This programme has had exclusive

access to a pioneering neo-natal unit that is trying to address

the financial and emotional cost of a lengthy stay in hospital,

by putting parents in charge St James' Hospital in Leeds lets

parents decide when to give medication, and when and how

to feed their babies. They take lessons in looking

after their children Nurses at the centre say

the experiment as had a positive effect on patients

and their families. Theresa May has defended cuts

to bereaved family payments as "fairer to taxpayers",

in a week where families with a terminally ill parent

could see thousands of pounds wiped off their benefits if the parent

survives beyond the new rules Campaigners have called the move

callous and brutal. Later in this programme we will be speaking to

Allen, who is terminally ill and says the changes will cost his

family tens of thousands of pounds. Prince Harry is supporting

a bid to rid the world of landmines by 2025,

following in the footsteps of his mother Diana,

Princess of Wales. The prince will give a keynote

speech at Kensington Palace to mark More than 60 million people

are estimated to still live with the threat of unexploded

landmines. That's a summary of

the latest BBC News. We will bring you our film on a new

way of caring for premature babies in a moment. If you have a -- had a

premature baby, how do they organise things at your neonatal unit? Have

you felt shut out? Do what Shaw film.

I wonder if the FA will punish David Moyes for those sexist comments to

the female sports reporter? Good morning. That is a big question

this morning for the FA. They will write to David Moyes and ask him

exactly what he meant by what he said to Vicki Sparkes. It happened a

month ago, sorry, last month, after they match against Burnley.

Essentially Vicki Sparkes asked David Moyes if the presence of the

Sunderland owner had added to pressure around his role. It is a

question he clearly wasn't very happy about. I want to give you a

quick listen to what was her -- said afterwards. Just getting a wee bit

naughty at the end. Just watch yourself. You still might get a slap

even though you are a woman. Careful the next time you come in.

What David Moyes meant by those words, we are not sure. He says he

deeply regrets them. He is sorry about what he said. There are

questions now over whether he should stay within football. We know

football has had issues in the past around discrimination. But now David

Moyes' future is being questioned. The FA will be asking him exactly

what he meant. At the moment he will still be in the dugout for

Sunderland as they take on Leicester this evening.

It makes me wince every time I hear it. What do know about when David

Moyes apologised to the reporter? We know he did apologise. We know the

apology was accepted. We know that he did apologise and the club

apologised a day Ahmad two after that match. Yesterday, speaking to

the media, he reiterated that apology. It was in the heat of the

moment and I deeply regret the comments I made. That is certainly

not the person who I am. I accept it was a mistake. I spoke to the BBC

reporter, who accepted my apology. And hopefully we all move on. David

Moyes wants to move on but there is pressure over his role. Already by

some of the Premier League, there are real questions over whether he

should be involved as the Sunderland boss due to this issue. Some of the

reaction? Give us a flavoured? Virtually every bag page covers a

story on David Moyes and whether he should be Sunderland manager.

The reaction has been slightly mixed to be honest.

Match of the Day host Gary Lineker has called

Journalist Ian Herbert called Moyes a "misogynist

with previous" in his article for The Independent yesterday.

And although nobody has supported his comments,

I haven't seen anyone suggesting his language

There are many within football saying "It's time

to move on" and that it wouldn't be right for him to lose his job

But it does add weight to the view that there's an undercurrent

Rachel Anderson from the Women in Football group thinks Moyes

He should certainly think about his position as manager because he has a

big responsibility, not only to the football club but to football in

general. We are always being told that everybody involved in football

is an ambassador. So if he is an ambassador, that's not very good.

All I know is that he has apologised and that Vicki, to her enormous

credit, is prepared to accept that apology. Where it goes from here is

if others now want to pressurise Vicki and others feel they have to

do something about it, that to me would be a great shame. That I think

is wrong. A witchhunt and all of this sort of stuff, there is no need

for that right now. So this is being looked at slightly

different angles in terms But David Moyes the Sunderland

boss still has plenty of questions to answer -

as I say The FA will now write to Moyes to ask

for his observations on the incident - but if his job was on the line

on the pitch, it's now at risk Thank you for the moment. Your views

welcome, obviously. Much more on that story throughout the programme.

If your baby is born prematurely, as a parent you can often feel

helpless, totally reliant on the care of nurses and doctors,

fearful about the future - not to mention the financial

and emotional cost of a lengthy stay in hospital.

Now one neo-natal unit in the UK is trying to address that by putting

They decide when to give medication, and when and how

They take lessons in looking after their children

And because parents are far more involved than they were before,

nurses say the experiment in Leeds has had a dramatic effect

And it all came about because of a cost-cutting drive

Nicola Rees has had exclusive access to the unit at St James' Hospital.

It's just nice to feel like a mum instead of somebody

I could feel her, so I felt safe, and she felt safe being near to me,

There's a quiet revolution happening in Leeds.

So 36.8, that's perfect, that's in a normal range, so that's fine.

A new project which they hope could solve massive

It's not rocket science, it is such a straightforward thing

to do to allow parents to look after their babies.

Dreamt up in the 1970s in the Soviet Union, the baby units

Baby Lola is in the special care unit at St James's,

Born at just 23 weeks, with little hope.

The midwife said to me that the chances of survival was

really slim, and then during labour, one of the neonatal consultants came

He painted a really bad picture that she could have

In the intensive care unit, it was terrifying.

It's something that very few people get to see, I would imagine.

She had wires coming out of everywhere.

She did actually have a twin brother,

She's given us something positive to focus on,

I don't know how we'd have coped if it wasn't for her.

Lola would certainly have died but for modern medicine.

We've become much better at keeping premature babies alive,

but in the past that meant keeping them away from mum.

It seems hard to believe, but as recently as the 1990s,

if you wanted to see your baby outside of strict visiting

hours, these windows were as close as you could get.

Parents of premature babies were on the outside looking in.

That disconnect has lasting consequences.

The bonding process is much harder to establish,

And there is also a financial impact - with car parking,

meals and loss of earnings, an average stay in a neonatal unit

And then there's the psychological impact - parents of premature babies

are twice as likely to suffer from postnatal depression

than those who have healthy full-term pregnancies.

So this neonatal unit at Jimmy's wanted to end all that,

and they took a big risk - to start what's called

Family integrated care aims to get the parent at the very centre

of the team caring for the baby, which is really different to how

neonatal care has evolved in Western health care.

So one of the jobs that we have to do is take a temperature,

maybe every three or four hours, a simple procedure, really,

just the thermometer on the wall, then just a case of going

Parents are taught to pass nasogastric tubes

Basically, everything but the most complex medical treatments.

And do you know what you're looking for here then?

Yeah, it's got to be within a certain range,

so 36.7, that's perfect, that's in a normal

So in the past, care has very much been the nurse

leading it, so saying, "Right, it's feed time,

it's bad time," whereas now it is very much the parents that

are leading that - they will feed the baby

when the baby needs feeding, rather than when the clock

says it's feed time, and that's much better for the baby.

Katie had daughter Molly eight weeks early.

They had to get her out quite urgently and it was a little bit

of a shock, my partner wasn't really prepared.

She wasn't breathing properly to start off with,

so that is why they pretty much took her straightaway,

but when I first went to see her, she was attached to like a CPAP

machine which was helping her breathe.

While I'm here, I pretty much do everything that

a normal mum would do, just confined to a cot.

Everything from feeding to medicine, cleaning, bathing.

Do you get how much of an idea the nurses feel about handing

Has there been any resistance, or are they all pretty happy?

No, certain things, like the tube feeding,

they obviously watch over you quite a bit to start with,

Things like this temperature, it's not as vital, so they like to make

sure that they know what you're doing, they don't

And this is just one of dozens of jobs that you have

It's a total culture shift to help parents bond

with their babies earlier, get the idea is 40 years old.

Tallinn, Estonia, in the former Soviet Union.

The head of the local neonatal department had a big problem -

too many patients and not enough nurses.

Dr Adik Levin came up with a pretty basic solution.

The idea came because of the nursing crisis.

My idea was that mother must be a member of our team.

Why the healthy baby in maternity ward stay with the mother?

And why the premature baby must be separated?

It was, for me, absolutely non-logical.

But he was going against the entire Soviet medical system.

In Soviet Union it was written that mother is dangerous for the baby,

that mother can be the person who bring infection

TRANSLATION: Mother is not a bystander anymore

but has an active role in the healing process...

Giving nursing jobs to the mothers was a massive success, though.

The doctor has allowed the introduction of

While lying on mother's breast, he receives fresh breastmilk...

He'd achieved better breast-feeding rates, shorter hospital

We hope that this experience can be taken over by people

from other countries, as this kind of medicine is not

only humane but also much more inexpensive.

But it took 30 years for a hospital in Canada to cotton on -

Australia, New Zealand, and eventually Leeds.

Why on earth has it taken you so long to introduce something

that is, essentially, fundamental - parents

I think if you look back through the history of neonatal

care, I think with advances in technology, and the recognition

of the importance of infection control, that has led to the gradual

separation of the premature baby from the parents,

and things have just evolved from there.

Nursing numbers here haven't changed, but now they are mentors.

OK, so we're looking for a pH of 1-5.

Steady hands to feed it up her nose and into her stomach.

Being around it and watching it has made me more confident when I've

come to be doing it, and then they help

Certainly, there has been anxiety amongst the nursing staff.

I think it's having to let go and realise that, actually,

the parents will be perfectly safe doing it.

Instead of nurses providing the direct care, this is supporting

And, traditionally, nursing, you are the caregiver.

And be honest, were you concerned that it was a cost-cutting

measure or that there was an element of that?

No, because I think, initially, it isn't really

a cost-cutting measure, because it takes a lot more time

But could it also work for the most poorly babies?

They're rolling out the project in the intensive care unit

The stakes are higher here - it's life and death,

and parents currently have a less hands-on experience.

How involved were you able to be at the other hospital?

Not much at all to start with - you could put hands in the incubator

and just touch her on her head, but that was as far as it went.

It was nine days before she could come out and be held,

but then you've got ventilators taped to you, you're just

terrified of moving, and also terrified of holding her.

You know, what should be a really magical moment -

which it was - was also really, really scary.

But when it's safe, they do already encourage skin-to-skin

I'd been begging for days to hold her, but because of her breathing,

they delayed it and delayed it and delayed it.

When I did, they said I could hold her for about an hour,

and then I was able to cuddle her under my clothes.

I could feel her, so I felt safe, and she felt safe, being near to me,

Just really emotional, it's an emotion that you don't

She did so well that I ended up having eight hours

because her breathing got so much better.

So I got eight hours of bonding, and she got eight hours

of being very well, and she progressed so...

Do you feel better prepared now for home?

So what have we got here, have we got everything?

You've got all my medicines and everything, so don't lose them!

How much of a difference has it made, this place?

A lot, I've got a lot of thanks to give when I leave.

Nobody wants to stop it, it's definitely here to stay.

Everybody can see the benefits of it.

They're getting home sooner, the long-term development

is improving, we've got increasing breast-feeding rates.

The fact is is that families are going home more confident

and more able to care for their babies,

She was 37 weeks and five days when we came home -

they told us to expect her home on her due date, which

Without the family integrated care, we'd have been in a lot longer.

She's on oxygen still - they wouldn't have allowed us

She's still on a lot of medication that we have to give her.

I feel really confident in everything that they've told us,

I love her, she's perfect, absolutely amazing!

In the next hour we'll meet the doctor who's

pioneered this approach, and a mum who gave

A tweet which says, "Thanks for the report on premature care on your

programme. I was born 14 weeks early at St George's and my parents

received great support and care." Still to come, government

support for widowed parents We'll be finding out

what this means for people David Moyes says he regrets talking

about "slapping" a female reporter. Is his apology enough? Zblud Should

that be the end of the matter? Joanna is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary The man suspected of killing

11 people by bombing a St Petersburg train,

is a native of Kyrgyzstan who obtained Russian citizenship,

according to security services. 49 people were injured

in the explosion between two underground stations

yesterday afternoon. A group of MPs has accused

the Government of making "unsubstantiated claims"

about the potential impact of failing to reach

a Brexit deal with the EU. The Exiting the EU

Committee report criticised the Prime Minister's position that

no deal was better than a bad deal, and called

on the Government to carry out But six pro-Brexit MPs

on the committee members voted against the report,

saying it was too gloomy. Theresa May responded by saying

that it is in both the UK and the EU's interest to strike

a good deal. I'm confident that we can get a good

deal with the European Union. It will be good for them as they

acknowledged. Theresa May has defended cuts

to bereaved family payments Until now, families have received

regular payments for up to 20 years. But under the new system,

the Government will pay a larger initial lump sum,

but regular payments Campaigners have called

the move callous and brutal. Later in this programme

we will be speaking to Alan, who is terminally ill and says

the changes will cost his Prince Harry is supporting

a bid to rid the world of landmines by 2025,

following in the footsteps of his mother Diana,

Princess of Wales. The prince will give a keynote

speech at Kensington Palace to mark More than 60 million people

are estimated to still live with the threat of

unexploded landmines. North Wales Police paid a phone bill

of more than ?44,000 for a mobile which was given to a burglar on

bail. The phone was given to the offender by the police as part of a

project to reinterrogate criminals into the community. North Wales

Police says no disciplinary action has been taken against any member of

the staff, but the force has since reviewed its mobile phone policy.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

Lots of comments. The comment made by David Moyes has been blown out of

proportion. It sounded like playful banter. Norma says, what a fuss

about nothing. As a woman I fail to see how this was sexist. And I am a

Newcastle supporter! Richard says, what is happening to this country? A

light-hearted, throwaway comment blown out of proportion by the

Pointless BBC. And choke says, I didn't know we were looking for ways

to get David Moyes sacked. A brief review of his position in the league

table should be enough. I think some of those comments are

symptomatic of what we have seen. Some people saying it is time to

move on. Some people saying, should the manager of a football club

really making statements like that? There are question marks over

whether David Moyes is fit to leave -- leads Sunderland. He told a

female reporter that she might get a slap. He is likely to face an

enquiry after the FA Astros observations over the comment he

made last month. Moyes said he deeply regrets the incident. Chelsea

forward any Luco says the England manager is sending out a dangerous

message by not picking players based on form. Luco was left out of the

squad for the European Championships despite finishing top scorer in the

Premier League. The best players in the world will not be competing at

the Winter Olympics. The United States will not let players go to

the games because the owners of the clubs do not want to interrupt their

season. I am back with more just after ten.

"Callous and brutal" - is how major changes to benefits

for bereaved spouses have been described by campaigners.

From Thursday, the old widowed parent's allowance is being replaced

by a new bereavement support payment.

Instead of getting a one-off tax-free lump sum of ?2,000,

followed by ?5,852 a year before tax for up to 20 years, depending

on their child's age, bereaved parents will receive

tax-free payments of just ?9,800 in total, spread

Theresa May says the new system, which applies to new

Let's speak to Katy Maw, who was widowed 13 years ago,

when her husband died in a motorbike accident.

And Labour MP Alex Cunningham, who is Shadow Work

and Pensions Minister - Labour say they would reverse

Welcome. How did those regular payments over many years help to

support you and your one-year-old and three-year-old girl? It was a

lifeline. It meant that whatever happened to me during the day,

whether I spent all day on the kitchen floor was out trying to find

work, I had the flexibility to know I could feed my kids at the end of

the month and pay some bills. It was a total support. And after 18

months, I look back now, it is absolutely ludicrous to think that

anybody would be in a position to have got their lives together,

sorted, to be able to support their children and themselves, financially

and emotionally, without that lifeline. You have now given up

those payments because you are engaged to be married.

Congratulations. Can you imagine what it would be like for anyone

widowed after Thursday, who will get a higher lump sum to start with, but

the weekly payments of ?112. After 18 months? It is important to make

the point that that lump sum payment, which was ?2000, is to

cover funeral costs, which I believe an average is about ?4000. So we can

disregard that. That is paying for something that is in my experience,

something I didn't know I would have to pay for. You are now looking for

a monthly payment after that. I am horrified and I am terrified for

anybody faced with what I had to face. Knowing that you have a

deadline. It is a race that you are in that you don't even want to be

in, the idea that you can be in employment that is going to pay,

cover perhaps what was two incomes coming in, or even one, and be there

to take your kids to school, pick them up, be there for them during

the day, you are everything. You need that little bit of support. By

the way, you have already paid for it. My husband paid national

insurance on to and into a state pension system, and I paid my

national insurance. Why would it have to stop after 18 months? What

is your reaction to the decision to change this? I'm horrified. It shows

a complete lack of imagination and humanity on the part of the

government. I don't know the MPs who put it through, if they had at that

might have had personal experience, or if it is an easy cut to make. A

lot of people don't know it exists. You only know it exists when it

happens to you. That is why nobody has fought for it. They have that

charities, bereavement counsellors, everybody who has had experience,

and knows what it is like, telling them, this is horrific. They have

ignored it. I will come back to you in a moment. I want to bring in Alex

Cunningham, a Labour MP. You say these changes will save the Treasury

?100 million. The government says it is not an austerity measure, it is

about updating an old-fashioned system which does not reflect

people's lives today? The system may need updating but it doesn't mean

taking where this vital support. I met a young boy, an eight-year-old,

a few weeks ago, and he was campaigning for the retention of

these allowances. He was talking about the fact his mum was a

teacher, managed to get back into work after two and a half years, but

nowadays she can still get away in plenty of time to taken to school

are Pickin up. He said she can also talk to his teacher when he is

having a sad day and understand the problems he is going through. The

support is vital for teachers and widows or widowers. And anybody

receiving it at the moment will continue to receive it under the old

terms. It is from this Thursday things will change. The government

also say it is tax-free, it doesn't affect the amount received from

other benefits. So families can access wider welfare support, they

say? Let's be clear. The tax-free payment every month is probably

equivalent to the ?112 a week which is taxable, which they receive at

the moment. That is only for 18 months. If it had not been for the

select committee in the House of Commons, the government would have

cut that after 12 months. Clearly there focuses on saving money and

not on the people who need support. It is part of the government's ?12

billion savings. They have a mandate for according the welfare bill,

don't they? They certainly have a mandate. But this is about political

choices. Our political choice would be to protect the most vulnerable,

not actually take the money away. If we can afford to pay millionaires,

people who earn millions of pounds every year, if we can afford to give

them tax cuts, we cannot afford to look after people going through the

most vulnerable period in their lives. -- we can afford. Where would

you find the money from if Labour were elected? This is about

political choices. We don't think it is necessary to do this. We look at

the huge cuts being made in corporation tax. We are looking at

the cuts given to millionaires. I think there is plenty of flexibility

to find this ?100 billion a year. You are talking about corporation

tax cuts that this government has made? No, the government, two or

three years ago, cut the higher rate of tax for people over a certain

pay. They were paying 10% less tax. I think if we could reinstate that,

it would go a long way, if not more than cover the money that is needed

to ensure widows and children get the support they need. The Prime

Minister was asked about this. She is on a foreign trip. She says, we

need to ensure we have a system which is fair to people who require

this help and support, but obviously also is fair to taxpayers. I'm a

taxpayer and so was my husband. He has played into that system. I just

feel terribly sorry for people who will face this. They don't know who

they are, generally. For example, if I may, there is a friend of mine who

lost her husband to cancer last year. Within three months, she was

diagnosed as -- with breast cancer, she had a mastectomy, she has two

children. It is coming to the 18 month bracket. What would Theresa

May say to her? What she would say is, she will be all right because

she is under the old system. It is new claimants from Thursday. This is

one story. For those women pregnant when they lose their husbands... I

don't quite understand, we are still paying national insurance, we are

still having children, parents are still dying. That system hasn't

changed. Why are we being punished for that? I understand it is a

quarter of 8% of people it will affect. The most vulnerable. At the

most full verbal time when they are not employable. And if I may add,

ten years after the event of losing my husband, I'm diagnosed with

post-traumatic because I was having to deal with my children's grief and

my grief, I grieved for my husband's loss. I carried on as best I could

and I worked. But that money, I was entitled to it, but also it was a

comfort. But grief doesn't go away. 18 months is not a cut-off point

where you get over it. You never get over it. You evolve and you change

it to the person you are because it has happened. And things change. As

my children get older, they needs are different. That is why the

payment has to continue after 18 months. What has been the impact on

you? At the time your husband died, your little girls were one and

three. She wasn't even one. I hope they are all right. I hope I have

managed to show them... I have worked. But I have also been

available to them. I want them to look back and think that I did

manage as best I could and that I wasn't flaky and I wasn't all over

the place. And I showed them good values. I have worked and they have

also been there for them. The idea that after 18 months, I would have

been having to work certain hours, I could not have worked from nine to

three. I wouldn't have been around. It would've been somebody else's

responsibility. We don't live in the kinds of communities we used to live

in where we had everywhere. My mother was a 70 mile round trip

away. My brother lived on the other side of London. They are not on the

doorstep. And says, my friend's husband was told two weeks ago he

was being made redundant. A week ago he was told he was terminally ill.

His wife had brain surgery two years ago. The change to the widowed

parent allowance is indeed callous and brutal. It is completely unfair

and not reflective of the needs of families struggling to come to terms

with the most awful circumstances. This is not how a civilised society

works. I would agree with that. And this one says, dad died when I was

11. If it hadn't been for the widows pension, mum and I would have been

on the streets. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Thank

you for having me. Thank you to Alex Cunningham.

After 10am, we'll get reaction from a terminally ill man

We older children in the UK is expensive. Have a look how one

school in London is trying to get around the costs.

I probably wouldn't have childcare until they went

to a free school nursery, because I wouldn't be able to afford

Any sort of member of staff that are willing to be overseen

by parents 24/7 has got to be something special.

It's significantly cheaper, it's like only like 260 quid a month.

Otherwise, it would be at least ?1000 a month

If your child comes every day, then you have to work

It's really nice to see, we see everyone's triumphs and challenges,

and and you just realise that your chart is normal.

You see everyone at their best and everyone at their worst,

and that is actually really comforting as a parent,

that you don't normally get to see behind the scenes

You train on the job, but you have a lot to read, and then

You learn a massive amount about childcare, you immediately

learn on the spot with regards to the work you do with other

You do an activity shift with the children, where

you're expected to be with the children, interacting.

We can't have them just sitting around on their shifts and not

If they're not interested, we will take up the challenge

with them and find ways of getting them involved.

Not every person's role is exactly the same.

In the last half hour it has emerged that North Wales Police paid a phone

bill of over ?40,000 for a mobile which had been given

Our reporter Jenny Rees is in Cardiff and can tell us more.

Why? Well, it is fairly standard, it seems for this particular project

that mobile phones would be given to people. Generally it was things like

if it was a victim of domestic violence or perhaps wanting to keep

in touch with the police they would want criminals who were needing to

be reintegrated back into the community to reduce re-offending

would be given mobile phones. Normally they would be given a

pay-as-you-go, but in this case, by mistake they were given a contract

phone. The bills were being paid, but they knocked up a bill of

?44,500. Mistake was only realised in 2014. They found three people may

have had access to the phone. They don't know how ?44,500 was run up as

part of that. Two people were arrested, but they didn't have

enough evidence to press charges on them. No disciplinary action has

been taken against any members of the police force either. It has come

to light after a Freedom of Information Request went in and the

force say they have reviewed the mobile phone policy since then, and

only pay-as-you-go phone sims are given out and rules have been made

clear as to how the phones should be used. There are so many questions

that still need answering, I suspect we don't have the information yet,

it will drip out over the coming hours. Thank you very much, Jenny.

Who are you ringing to get a bill for ?44,000? Oh my goodness!

Sunderland manager David Moyes has been asked to explain himself

to the FA after he told a BBC reporter she might "get a slap".

Just getting a wee bit naughty at the end there so just watch

yourself or you still might get a slap even though you're a woman.

The reporter asked him if he felt under pressure because the owner was

in the stands and on camera he said, "No, not at all." When he thought

the camera was turned off that the following conversation ensued.

The Sunderland manager now says he "deeply regrets" the incident"

and that he's phoned the reporter Vicki Sparks to apologise.

It was in the heat of the moment and I deeply regret

It's certainly not the person who I am and I accept

I spoke to the BBC reporter who accepted my apology

Gary Lineker tweeted, "Moyes incident highlights

a tendency for some managers to treat interviewers

With me now is Martha Kelner, sports writer for the Daily Mail.

Jane Moran is a Sunderland season ticket holder.

Martha, is it a sackable offence? I'm not sure he should lose his job

over it. I think I'd like to make that clear, but it's something that

deserves talking about. He should be pushed further on it. Because even

watching it, you know, several times as I have done now, it makes me feel

uncomfortable. I think the language is a little bit sinister. I don't

think he would have treated a male reporter with the same disdain. I

think he was abusing his position as a respected manager in that powerful

interviewer, you know, interview manager situation. I think it was

inappropriate and I think it's right that he's getting asked to explain

his actions. Jane, hello. Hi Victoria. Should the FA punish him

or has he done enough? I don't think he should be punished. A lot of

Sunderland supporters, there is a great debate going on on the message

board about whether he was right or wrong, but a lot more Sunderland

fans are disappointed about his comments on the pitch than the

comments -- performance on the pitch than the comments to the reporter.

Do you think he would have said that to a male reporter? I don't think he

would have. It has been blown out of proportion and the outrage over it

is just well beyond what it deserves. But he was, there was a

veiled threat. There was a warning, don't be asking questions like that

the next time you come back? A veiled threat that she has accepted

an apology for. Sew that's all right? I'm not saying it's all

right, but the person who was supposedly offended has accepted the

apology and yet, you know, the outrage goes on. That's a really

good point, isn't it, Vicky Sparks has accepted that apology. It means

amongst other things she will be able to go to Sunderland and report

on it and ask questions of the manager? I thud you sort of answered

the question yourself there. She is in a difficult situation, I don't

want to speak for her, but her job depends on being able to go to those

post-match press conferences and have that debate with David Moyes in

the future so she is in a tricky situation. I actually feel sorry for

her that she has been caught up in this storm, but I do think it's a

good thing that we're talking about it because I think it shows the

changing of the tide with sexism in football and what's acceptable

because in the past managers have been able to get away with these

comments towards women that make them feel isolated. In a job where

they probably are only one or two women in a room full of men on a

week to week basis. It was six years ago that Sky's presenters Richard

Keys and Andy Gray made the sexist comments towards a female lines

woman and they paid for it with their jobs. It was ten years ago

that the Luton Town manager had this to say about a female assistant

referee. "She shouldn't be here, I know that sounds sexist, but I am

sexist." He was fined ?6500. The FA asked for David Moyes' observations,

but should they do anything, is his apology and an explanation enough?

The fact that we're talking about is it is enough. I think it's a warning

not only to him, that he needs to modify his behaviour, but also to

other managers who might treat female reporters like that in the

future. Damned by his own language perhaps.

You cover various different sports, a lot of athletics, have you been in

a situation where you have been treated dimply because you're a

female reporter? I think it happens less in athletics because there are

more female reporters, but in football I don't think there has

been a chief football writer, there is only one female sports editor on

Fleet Street. The Daily Mail... The Mail on Sunday. Sorry. You don't get

it as much in athletics, but in football more so. I have never had a

manager say anything to me like, "You might get a slap." I've had

managers say things like, "I'll watch my language around the lady."

It emphasises your otherness and makes you feel on edge. Yeah.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Bear with me. Sorry. Since this was

updated it takes me long tore get into this tablet would you believe?

This is about the changes to bereavement allowance which come in

on Thursday and it is an e-mail from Helen, "I lost my husband five years

ago and I do get this benefit. I feel shocked about these parents

losing this lifeline. We are hit so hard. I'm a working mum and I had

much higher childcare costs. The current benefit is taxable and what

is awful is that I have one income and therefore, one tax allowance so

I already lose so much money as well as not having my darling, husband."

I'm going to talk more about the changes to those bereavement

allowances after 10am. Your own experiences really welcome. Do get

in touch in the usual ways. You can e-mail and you can tweet using the

hashtag Victoria Live and there is whatsapp and text and the usual. Now

the weather with Carol. Some of us had a milder start and

others have had a fresher start. We're looking at bright spells,

sunshine, not just this morning, into the afternoon we'll have that

and feeling that wee bit fresh you are than yesterday. Yesterday's top

temperatures hit 18 Celsius in Cambridge and Gravesend. Today, we

might see 17 Celsius in Cardiff. Now, high pressure is firmly this

charge of our weather at the momentment we have got a weather

front citizenshipinging south producing cloud and rain and if you

notice the squeeze on the ice owe barks it will continue to increase

in strength, the wind that is, particularly so across the Northern

Isles where we are looking at gales and did severe gales. At the other

end of the country, we lose the patchy rain, it is replaced by

showers, but look how it brightens up for most with sunshine. So this

afternoon across south-west England, you can expect sunshine. A bit more

cloud as we push through south Devon and into Somerset, but through

Gloucestershire, bright spells and through much of Wales, we're looking

at sunshine with highs of ten Celsius, in Aberystwyth. For

Northern Ireland, bright spells of sunshine will be the order of the

day for you and still one or two showers flirting with the West Coast

of Scotland. Most of the showers will be across the far north,

especially the Northern Isles where it will feel cold in the wind.

Eastern Scotland seeing sunshine and as we cross northern England down to

the North Midlands and the Wash we're back into bright or sunny

skies. For East Anglia, Essex and Kent, and towards the Isle of Wight,

there is more cloud and that cloud is thick enough to be producing the

odd shower. There goes that cloud, leaving clear skies for England and

Wales, more cloud at times with showers for Scotland and Northern

Ireland. Still windy in the far north. Temperatures four to seven or

eight in towns and cities, but lower than that in the countryside.

Roughly one to three Celsius. Premium Bond areas in the

countryside will see frost under the clear skies, but under the clear

skies tomorrow, we are awe off to a sunny start. Tomorrow, there will be

some cloud dotted around, but it will still be bright. Some of us

will see sunny spells and it will be breezy. Still quite windy across the

Northern Isles. Just not as windy as it will be later today or tonight.

Temperatures eight Celsius in the north to highs of 13 or 14 Celsius

as we push down towards the south. After a killy start on Thursday,

again, we're looking at that a mixture of bright spells, sunshine,

a few showers coming in across the west and temperatures between ten

and 15 Celsius. But the weather remains settled into the weekend.

Hello, it's Tuesday, April 4. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

We've been given exclusive access to a neo-natal unit in Leeds,

with a pioneering approach to caring for premature babies.

It is such a straightforward thing to do, to allow parents

The fact is that families are going home more confident

and more able to look after their babies,

Lots of you getting in touch on this.

The government is cutting the amount of money that

One parent who previously relied on the allowance told this

programme what she thought of the new measures.

It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anybody would be in a position

to have got their lives together, sorted, to be able to support their

children and themselves, financially and emotionally, without that

lifeline. Prince Harry is following in his

mother's footsteps by campaigning We'll be asking what needs to be

done to achieve that goal. Here's Joanna with a

summary of today's news. The number of people killed

in yesterday's bomb attack on the St Petersburg

metro has risen to 14, according to Russia's Health

Ministry. The man investigators now suspect

of carrying out the attack, is a native of Kyrgyzstan

who obtained Russian citizenship. 50 people were injured

in the explosion between two underground stations yesterday

afternoon. A group of MPs are challenging the

government to prove that no deal is better than a bad deal when ridden

leaves the European Union. The Exiting the EU

Committee report criticised the Prime Minister's position that

no deal was better than a bad deal, and called

on the Government to carry out But six pro-Brexit MPs

on the committee members voted against the report,

saying it was too gloomy. Theresa May responded by saying

that it is in both the UK and the EU's interest to strike

a good deal. I have been very clear that I want

to get the best deal possible for the UK from these negotiations with

the European Union. I think that would be a good deal for the EU. The

EU themselves want that. I was clearing the letter

I sent to Donald Tusk in triggering Article 50,

that if we don't get a deal, we fall I don't think that

is in the interest That is why we will both be

working to make sure we get British scientists say they've

created a sieve capable of removing It uses a derivative of graphene,

a fine sheet of carbon The development, at the University

of Manchester, has the potential to improve access to clean drinking

water for millions of This programme has had exclusive

access to a pioneering neo-natal unit that is trying to address

the financial and emotional cost of a lengthy stay in hospital,

by putting parents in charge St James' Hospital in Leeds lets

parents decide when to give medication, and when and how

to feed their babies. They take lessons in looking

after their children Nurses at the centre say

the experiment has had a positive effect on patients

and their families. Theresa May has defended cuts

to bereaved family payments Until now, families have received

regular payments for up to 20 years. But under the new system,

the Government will pay a larger initial lump sum,

but regular payments Campaigners have called

the move callous and brutal. Later in this programme

we will be speaking to Alan, who is terminally ill and says

the changes will cost his Prince Harry is supporting

a bid to rid the world of landmines by 2025,

following in the footsteps of his mother Diana,

Princess of Wales. The prince will give a keynote

speech at Kensington Palace to mark More than 60 million people

are estimated to still live with the threat of

unexploded landmines. It's emerged that North Wales Police

has paid a phone bill of over ?44,000 for a mobile which had been

given to a burglar on bail. The phone had been given

to the offender by the police as part of a project to reintegrate

criminals into the community. North Wales Police says no

disciplinary action has been taken against any member of staff

but the force has since reviewed That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30. Latest sport. Good morning. There

are further questions for David Moyes to answer today. The Football

Association will ask Ray 's observations of an incident in which

he told a female reporters she may get a slap. Moyes will be in the

dugout this evening against Leicester but he could face

sanctions. He told media yesterday he deeply regrets his Commons, which

have stirred debate over his future. He needs to think about his position

as manager because he has a big responsibility, not only to the

football club, but football in general. We are always been told

that everybody involved in football is an ambassador. If he is an

ambassador, that is not very good. Chelsea forward any Luco has said

the England coach Mark Sampson is setting a dangerous message by not

selecting players baked on form. She was left out of the euro 2017 squad

despite ending the season as top scorer in the women's Super League.

It is more surprising given that England have failed to score in four

the last five games. Mark Simpson has publicly said he

doesn't pick on form. The other criteria is clearly based on

popularity. I think he has spoken about team dynamics and character.

The message and values the England team represents should be about hard

work, should be about putting your best foot forward every single day

to perform and get your reward is Fred. The message it is sending out

is that if you are popular with the manager, you get into the team. You

don't have to perform to get into the team. That is a dangerous

message to send out to particularly young people looking at being an

squad aspiring to be in it. The best ice hockey players in the

world will be appearing in next year's Winter Olympics. The US Ice

Hockey league will not allow players to go to the games because the

owners of the bigger clubs do not want to interrupt the season. The

International Olympic Committee have released a statement, saying they

feel sorry for the athletes, pointing out they offered the same

conditions as in the previous Olympic Games.

That won't be the end of that. Nor are today for the FA and David

Moyes. They are looking into his allegedly sexist comments to a

female you. -- reporter. Having a premature baby can leave

parents feeling shocked, confused, abandoned,

powerless and even guilty. The treadmill of daily hospital

visits can grind mums and dads down, But one neo-natal unit in Leeds

is trialling a new approach They decide when to give

medication, and when and how They take lessons in looking

after their children And because parents are far more

involved than they were before, nurses say the experiment in Leeds

has had a dramatic effect Nicola Rees has had

exclusive access to the unit We bought you her full report

earlier - here's a short extract. Baby Lola is in the special

care unit at St James's, Born at just 23 weeks,

her chances of survival were slim. During labour, one of the neonatal

consultants came to see us, he painted a really bad picture

that she could have In the intensive care

unit, it was terrifying. It's something that very few people

get to see, I would imagine. She was absolutely tiny, she had

wires coming out of everywhere. She did actually

have a twin brother, She's given us something

positive to focus on, I don't know how we'd have coped

if it wasn't for her. But as soon as she left

intensive care, mum Anna took One of the jobs we have to do

is take a temperature, maybe every three or four hours,

a simple procedure, really, just the thermometer on the wall,

then just a case of going St James's Hospital was the first

in the UK to introduce what's called Family integrated care aims to get

the parent at the very centre Parents are taught to

pass nasogastric tubes Basically, everything but the most

complex medical treatments. And do you know what

you're looking for here? Yeah, it's got to be

within a certain range. Family integrated care

was introduced in the former Then it was a solution

to a shortage of nurses. And be honest, were you concerned

that it was a cost-cutting measure or that there

was an element of that? No, because I think,

initially, it isn't really a cost-cutting measure,

because it takes a lot more time The problems of having a premature

baby are well-known - the bonding process is much harder

to establish, breast-feeding And there is also a financial

impact - with car parking, meals and loss of earnings,

an average stay in a neonatal unit And then there's the psychological

impact - parents of premature babies are twice as likely to suffer

from postnatal depression. than those who have healthy

full-term pregnancies. It's not rocket science, it's such

a straightforward thing to do, to allow parents to look

after their babies. The fact is is that families

are going home more confident and more able to care

for their babies, For Anna, it meant bringing her baby

home weeks earlier than expected. I love her, she's perfect,

absolutely amazing. Thank you for your lovely comments.

Debbie says, my daughter had twins born at 32 weeks. We looked after

them in the hospital. We fed them, we changed them, took their

temperature etc. Susan says her granddaughter was born eight weeks

early. It was about a week before my daughter got near her. Emma says she

had her son had 31 weeks. She had to be transferred to another hospital

13 miles from where she lived because there was no room in a

special baby unit. Doctors showed them what to do. When they got

transferred back to the hospital near to where they lived, there were

shown the same things. Here to tell us more

about this new approach is Dr Liz McKechnie,

consultant neo-natologist Sarah Miles, who gave birth

prematurely to twins in 2011, and felt left out

of her babies' care. Doreen Crawford, who worked

as a nurse in premature baby care for 30 years,

And Dr Karel O'Brien from It was the first western hospital

to find out about Family Integrated We can also speak to one of our

viewers, Leah. She has just run off. Her sons were born prematurely at 30

weeks in August 20 15. Look at those photographs. Absolutely lovely.

Doctor, let me begin with you. You brought this in two years ago.

You're about to bring it into the intensive care unit. We have seen in

the film a little about what this means. How different is it to how it

used to be done? I think it is formalising and giving a structured

to the way that we have cared for babies for many years. It is the

natural role of the nurse to teach the parents how to look after their

premature baby. This takes it one step further because the nurses

educate and coach the parents to becoming the primary caregiver for

their baby, so they are the core member of the team looking after

their baby. You had some experience of being left out of a loved one's

care with your own mum? I did. I had a traumatic year with my mother

being in hospital and subsequently dying, and my husband having an

accident and being in hospital. It made me see things from the other

side of the sheets and how important it is, how essential it is to have

the family on board with the patient's care. What were the

concerns from nurses initially? That we were trying to get rid of them,

that it was a cost-cutting measure. There were worried about the legal

status of their registration and things. We convinced some nurses

before we started that that wasn't the case. And others have

subsequently realised, once they have seen family integrated care,

that that is not the case. I'm going to bring in Leah now, because I

think one of her boys is needing her attention. Is that excel at --

Alexander or Zachary? This is Alexander. Tell us about the

experience you had when your twins were born prematurely? There were

born at 30 weeks, ten weeks premature, at Saint Mary -- St

Mary's Hospital in Paddington. It was spontaneous. Obviously not

planned labour that early. They were in intensive care for two days in an

incubator. Then they were downgraded to special care.

We were fortunate enough to be in the new special care uin the at St

Mary's Hospital so they had some parent bedrooms so we could live

actually in the hospital 24/7 like a little hotel. Were you involved in

caring for your boys? Yes. We were fully involved. They couldn't

breastfeed initially so they had to learn how to do that. So we were

feeding them through feeding tubes, giving medicine through the feeding

tubes as well, changing nappies, and bathing them as well. Pretty much

like you would with a newborn baby. So you were able to bond, clearly,

you were able to bond, you can see you both now. Yes. Yes, it was a

very important time actually for bonding because as another lady

mentioned before the skin to skin contact, it is really important

especially for premature babies when they can't actually breastfeed.

Initially they need to have that skin contact. OK. I'm going to do

what my other half used to when he was on a trip abroad and I would

have a young child and the child would be playing up while he'd ring

me and he would say, "I can hear you're busy." It used to wind me up!

I'm going to do the same with you. Alexander may need your attention. I

appreciate your contribution. Yes, he has had enough and I don't blame

him! Let me bring in Carol O'Brien. Yours

was the first western hospital to bring this in. Tell me how you came

across what they were doing in Estonia? We went to visit in Estonia

to see what they were doing in March 2010. That's where we got an idea of

what they were doing and the challenge was how to translate that

to a North American environment and a Canadian environment. Is it that

different? Well, it was very different at the time I would say to

what we were doing in North America where parents were still seen as

visitors and you know, could visit the NICO at visiting times and had

to ask permission from the nurse to take care of their baby and now

we've changed that par dime where parents are not seen as visitors any

longer. They have full access to their baby and the focus is on

coaching the parents to be parents and to include them as early as

possible in their baby's care. OK, I want to bring in Sarah. Sarah your

twins were premature, they were born at 28 weeks. And you did not feel

enough involved in their care. What was that like? At the beginning, it

was very difficult. Eva was transferred to a different hospital

so I had to stay in Queen Charlotte's Hospital with Charlotte

for five days before I was able to see Eva so that was very difficult.

Eva was in fare so it was two weeks before I was able to hold her. At

the beginning certainly I felt very much like a visitor and an on-looker

and I felt scared to be, I didn't want to harm my baby. I thought the

medical, they know best, I will just stand back and let everybody else

take over. I think a will the of parents feel they are not really

your babiment they belong somehow to the hospital because you're not able

to look after them. And Eva was very sick. She was in intensive care and

Charlotte in high dependency. I had the added challenge that I had them

in different rooms so I had to go between the two. It took me a long

time to bond with Eva after that two weeks of not being able to hold her.

I've since had a full term baby so I'm able to make that comparison and

one of the things which is difficult when you're in the neo-natal unit is

you have to ask permission to hold your baby. And you have to check

when it's feeding time and you have to check when care and the nurse are

good at getting the parents involved in the care and because I was there

so long and I got very involved and I asked a lot of questions and I did

get involved with their care, but at the beginning, you know, it's a very

traumatic time and you're just scared. You're looking at an

incubator, in mew case, two incubators and you're terrified.

Liz, you must have picked up on that from parents previously, mums and

dads feel like their baby belongs to the hospital because their baby is

so sick. And when a parent is scared, how do you get them involved

with their full consent? Well, I think, a lot of parents particularly

dads always are terrified to even touch their baby because they're so

tiny and so fragile and I think, it's about just gently bringing,

coaching the parents really to give them the confidence to be able to

care for their baby in the way that they should be able to. Doreen,

hello, Doreen Crawford a nurse with many years experience in premature

baby care. From a nursing union prospective, what concerns, if any,

do you have with family integrated care? I have no concerns. It is a

welcome extension to family centred care which 140 NHS Trust across

England already implement and I was very pleased to hear that Leeds were

not considering this as a cheap alternative because over 2,000 nurse

vacancies in England alone and 64% of neo-natal units don't have enough

staff for safe staffing. Right. If that's the case then, I

mean, I just wonder if there aren't enough staff for safe staffing, is

it, is it a good thing for parents to be doing it? I think parents have

got to be involved in their children's care. You're not just

having a neo-natal experience, you're having a baby for the rest of

your life. You're having a child and we all know the evidence exists that

fully informed families are better parents and it's a more secure

family unit. Sarah, sadly, one of your little

girls, Eva died after six months, she was six months old. And you felt

that you had undiagnosed post-traumatic stress, I think, when

the twins were in hospital, potentially because you felt so

helpless as a mother? I think that was definitely part of it. I think I

was in hospital for so long, 197 days before Eva came home to die and

I became very much part of that routine and I became very

institutionalised and I had some amazing neo-natal nurses help and

support me, and look after my baby. Both of them. But I would say, I

think, the family integrated care is a great initiative. I would just say

that parents need a lot of support and that's something I work with a

charity called The Smallest Things and that's something we hear from a

lot of parents who have been through neo-natal units, they don't have the

psychological support they need while on the unit to help their

babies. You're nodding in agreement there, Liz I am. It's a big problem.

Parents need a huge amount of psychological support and there is a

national standard specification for neo-natal care that says we should

have access to a psychologist, but the resources aren't there for that

and it's one of the issue that family integrated care seeks to help

really by having peer support from parents who have been through the

process before and will come back into the hospital to provide

peer-to-peer support for families. Right. On that subject, Yvonne says,

"I descended into depression after my son was born prematurely because

I could do nothing to help him and I ended up sitting in the corridor

despite the nurses' love and care. I wish this system was around, it

would have saved me three years of low self worth feelings." Beverley

says her daughter arrived six weeks early. It made such a difference.

Would you expect it to be rolled out across the country? Or in other

hospitals in England and Wales? There is a huge amount of interest

and other hospitals are beginning to roll it out which is great. We've

got national study day supported by Bliss which is another premature

baby charity. And I think that the parents will tell us that it has to

be rolled out. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Doreen. Thank

you Carol, Dr Carol O'Brien from Toronto and Sarah, and Dr Liz, thank

you very much. Gay people in Chechnya

are being rounded up and killed, according to claims

from human rights groups. We'll be speaking to people

in Russia about what life If you have just lost

a partner, the last thing But for widowed parents,

suddenly becoming the sole earner and providing for a family can add

stress to an already traumatic time. As of Thursday, the Government

is reforming the allowance it Until now, families have received

regular payments for up to 20 years. Under the new system, it will pay

a larger initial lump sum, but regular payment will stop

after 18 months. Critics describe the changes

as callous and brutal, but the Government say

the changes are fairer. We can speak now to Alan,

who has incurable cancer. Under the old system,

he says his family would have But following these changes,

which come into force on Thursday, he says they will receive

just over ?6,000. He doesn't want us to use

his surname to protect Baroness Ros Altmann,

who was a Conservative Work and Pensions Minister

until last year. Welcome both of you. Alan, thank you

so much for talking to us and the reason that you want to speak out

today, despite being very sick, is because you feel so strongly about

this issue? That's right. I made a calculation not long ago regarding

how much support would be available to my wife to help raise our young

children and under the current system, as you say, I calculated it

would have been a sum of over ?50,000 and under the new system it

would reduce to ?6,000 and I was shocked that a system of benefits

that has been in place as I understand for 70 years, since 1946,

although it has been renamed, the essence of this support is that when

somebody is widowed there is financial support available for

young children up to the age of 19 or 20. And the fact that that has

been taken away seems utterly callous and savage. Why do you think

this decision has been made? I understand that this is a policy

that was not at all mentioned in the Conservative manifesto as put

together by George Osborne, as chancellor at the time, this policy

therefore appears to have no mandate whatsoever and I can only think that

some relatively junior minister advised the Chancellor at the time

because the amount of money that I have already built up in my state

pension through national insurance contributions is approaching

?130,000 so even if the existing policy was paid out, it would only

represent half of the money that I have put in to my state pension and

of course, I won't have access to the state pension so whilst this is

continually referred to as a saving, actually it's just depriving people

of money that they have legitimately earned. I'm going to explain to our

audience on your behalf if it's all right, Alan, that the reason that

it's difficult for you to talk is because you have cancer which as I

understand it started in your tonsils before spreading to your

lungs and chest and last December you were given between one and five

months to live. That's correct. And it essentially means therefore

that if I were to have died or still do in the next cull of days my

family would benefit from the current support system. Two days

later, we lose ?50,000. What conversations have you had with your

family about this? I have explained the situation to

them. I have said in some ways it wouldn't be a bad thing if they lost

me a couple of days early, because at least there would be more

financial support available. Of course, even talking in those terms

is very upsetting. And how do they react when you say that? Well, they

are very shocked that the government, which as far as we all

understand, talks a good story about being caring and compassionate, but

in actual fact has deemed arbitrarily that the period of

bereavement which for 70 years has been set by the government as

children up to the age of 19 and 20, suddenly the whole process of

bereavement is now different for some unknown and unexplained reason.

And Theresa May, even yesterday, supported the theory, no support for

it whatsoever, that you can acceptably believe for 18 months,

and suddenly all is well. -- Grieve. I know she is not a parent as such,

and may not have some of the emotional feeling and empathy

towards children. But nevertheless, her advisers shouldn't have let her

speak out in such a simplistic way, because we have all had people,

known people who have had losses, and the losses and the pain and the

anguish don't suddenly turn off like a tap at month 18. So it was perhaps

one of the most naive things someone senior has ever said. What would be

your direct message to the Prime Minister? Look into the evidence

that is available from bereavement charity 's, from people she may even

know herself, and put a line through this erroneous myth that bereavement

starts and finishes at 18 months. Actually accept the fact that the

best practice and the wisdom has always been it goes on for a very

long time, and that we should, as a country, support widowed parents who

are working against the most terrible headwinds, to bring up

young children who have lost their parents. And we should keep the

current system in place. Particularly because, as I said

before, there is not a penny being saved. All the money is already in

the state pension pot. I and others have worked very hard to accumulate

that. I am going to read you a comment

from one of our viewers, who says, the amounts paid out to bereaved

families was a ridiculously generous amount. It's neither generous --

callous to cut that. I was that widow in my 30s with children. Well,

it's not right for me to comment on any individual. I don't know what

their situation was, and they are entitled to that opinion. I wholly

disagree with it. Chris says, in Derus Omeley people watching you

around the country, and they say they find your story utterly

heartbreaking. -- there are so many people watching you around the

country. Another example of how the Conservatives are victimising those

most in need. Rowan is horrified by the cutting benefits for bereaved

families. It is not acceptable. May I read you the official statement we

have from the Department for Work and Pensions, which explains why

they say they are doing this? We are modernising the support we offer,

replacing an outdated system that doesn't reflect people's lives

today. The new bereavement support payment is simpler, easier to

understand, tax-free and doesn't affect the amount received from

other benefits, so families can access wider welfare support. And

younger grieving spouses and civil partners without children will get

monthly support for the first time. Well... I mean, the simple fact is

that the amount of money being awarded is virtually identical when

you make the adjustment pre-and post-tax, so there is no actual new

money coming in on a weekly basis. What is happening is that the

support currently available for up to 20 years for a young child who

has lost a parent through two aged 20, is simply being cut to 18

months. And however that stressed up as simplification or streamlining,

it's just a massive Draconian, brutal, callous savage cut. It

wasn't in the manifesto. People didn't vote for it. George Osborne

randomly set this in motion in 2015 to one do support that has been in

place for UK citizens first 70 years. And it's simply disgraceful

and unacceptable. Allen, thank you so much for talking

to us. I would be grateful if you could listen to Baroness Alterman.

-- Baroness Roz Altmann. She is a Conservative peer and she was work

and pensions Minister onto last year. Good morning. Good morning.

And good morning Alan. I'm so sorry to hear of your really sad story.

Can these changes be justified in any way? Well, I must admit I very

much agree with the thrust of what Alan is saying. It is true that this

will be a simpler system and it is true that the old system was too

complicated, with three different types of benefits. You didn't really

know exactly what you were going to get. But the fact of the matter is,

in my view, that offering support for just 18 months to a widowed

parent assumes that after 18 months everything is fine. And I would

think most right-thinking people don't agree with that. And I do find

it strange that the truth here is that this is going to save ?40

million a year from 2020. That is the honest answer. This is about

saving money. And it's actually a policy that Iain Duncan Smith and

the Department for Work and Pensions devised. And I don't think that the

priorities are as I would want to see them. Indeed I was arguing for a

longer period of support than 18 months. How long were you arguing

for a? I think we need some proper research in terms of the

psychological impact of bereavement, and I don't believe we have really

delved into that at all. But what was it you suggested? I suggested

five to ten years. But we don't know. We need proper research. The

issue here though is prioritising the money to be spent on the widowed

partners without children, at the expense of widowed partners with

children, seems to me, from a social perspective, not to be what most

people would think was right and fair. Clearly in the old system, if

you had no dependent children and you were under 45, you got nothing.

And you will now get a couple of thousand pounds or a little bit

more. But under the old system there was much more and longer term

support for parents with children. Now I do agree with the government's

idea that the best route out of poverty is to get into work. And

that is another thrust behind these reforms. But I sincerely do not

believe that telling parents that their support payments are only

going to last 18 months, when there are so many circumstances in which

psychologically they will not be over the bereavement at all by then,

is not, in my view, how I would want to see a compassionate, Conservative

government running this kind of policy. And let's face it,

bereavement at a young age, indeed at any age, but particularly when

coping with bringing up younger children and trying to work in many

cases as well, but having to cut that from full-time to part-time,

can be a really distressing experience. And the society, if at

any time, surely at that time, it should surely step up and offer

proper support. Theresa May said yesterday when she was asked about

the changes coming in, it is about being fair to those who are

bereaved, it is about being fair to other taxpayers, as many of our

guests have pointed out, those dying of also been taxpayers. I want to

ask you, if you remember, on the steps of Downing Street last year,

Mrs May said, when we take the big calls, we will think not be

powerful, but of you. When we pass big laws, we will listen not to the

mighty, but to you. Do they sound like empty words when you look at

policy now? Well, I think what is suggested here is that this is not

considered a big call. And of course do those individuals to whom

bereavement happens, it is a huge call. It is such a devastating

event. And of course Alan and his family know that. They are at the

sharp end. And I do really feel that society itself, and the people of

this country, will want to step up and help widowed parents. They need

support from the national insurance system. That is what national

insurance should be therefore, in my view.

Alan, not your real name, I should have said. This is a big call for

you, I would have thought? Yeah, this is an absolutely huge call. It

is changing, obviously, my family to people who are suddenly going to be

thrown into grief for a very long period of time. And I agree with

what the baroness just said. National insurance on to work paid

in, in my case, hoping that I would be alive at aged 68, to draw my

state pension. That same money should be available to support my

family in the form of the widowed parents allowance. The money

actually would not be anywhere near as great as the amount of money that

I've already accumulated in the state pension. So there would still

be a saving. But there would still be a proper entitlement to support

at this terrible time. I want to read you some more comments if I

can. We are so grateful for your time. John says, what a lovely man

this is. So articulate, so clear about his family and how they will

be affected by his death, financially. What a world we live in

when we see everything so black and white. How dare the government put

this terrible worry and pressure on a terminally ill person? Please let

someone see sense and let him die knowing that this is resolved for

him. It's true, because at this point in one's life, you are

contemplating death. And you want to go out of this world with some

dignity, with some grace, with some peace of mind. Not full of financial

anxiety, feeling as if the government has just taken money away

from you that he had earned legitimately. Linda says, I am

heartbroken and listening to Alan's story. I am ashamed to be British.

Michael says, what a truly unique individual Alan is. The government

will be able to carry this out as there is no opposition across the

House. Craig, incredibly brave interview. Bereaved families benefit

payments being cut is the evil Cherry placed on top of a heartless

cake. Kalann says, I totally agree with Alan about cutting the benefit.

It is a callous and brutal cut by this government. It is about saving

the government money and nothing less, however they decide to

presented. It is awful and so sad. I think it's very true that we have

lost an effective Her Majesty's opposition. It is self evident. I

don't think anybody thinks that the other side of the comment, the

opposition, does anything at the moment. So I would call upon the

Lords, the second chamber, to step up now and call the government to

account, because I think they can and should mount a cross-party

initiated to stop this terrible situation.

Alan... Hello. I commit to you to try and speak to the other parties

across the House to see if there is anything we can do to extent the

period of support for widowed parents because I am really, really

upset by the way in which this is being done and the way it is being

presented because it is about saving money and it is about giving more

money to parents who are widowed, partners that are widowed without

families and it is not recognising the devastation that it can cause to

parents with young children. So I will have discussions with members

across the House of Lords in all parties and see if there is anything

we can do to encourage the Government to extent the support for

parents. Thank you. Alan thank you so much

for talking to us this morning and giving us so much of your time. We

really appreciate. A pleasure. We will follow you as you try to, as

you say, try and draw Lords together to try and stop the changes.

We have so many comments from you about what Alan was saying.

I will try and read some more before the end of the programme.

More than 100 gay men have been rounded up by authorities

in a region of Russia and subjected to torture and even murdered.

That's according to a Russian newspaper and human rights

campaigners in the country, which claim dozens of men aged

between 16 and 50 have mysteriously disappeared off the streets

in Chechnya including well-known television personalities

and religious leaders and at least three people killed.

The Chechen authorities say this report was "absolute lies

and disinformation", saying gay people do not

We can speak now to Svetlana Zakharova

from Russian LGBT Network, who is in St Petersburg.

Tanya Lokshina, who is Russia programme director

at Human Rights Watch. She's in Moscow.

Thank you very much for talking to us. Tell us, I mean, I know you have

set-up a hot line for gay people inside Chechnya. What sort of

stories are you getting? Well, we are already getting requests from

gay men who basically want to escape our who already managed to escape,

but they are afraid that they can be hunted. I can say by now for the

first two days of the hot line, we got more than ten requests for help.

What do they say is happening in Chechnya? Well... We can still hear

you. They're telling different stories. Basically that they are

terribly scared. They don't know what to do and they are even afraid

to contact us and co-operate with us because they still believe that they

can be punished. OK. Tanya, from your own experience, Russia

programme director at Human Rights Watch, what are you hearing about

what's going on in Chechnya and why? Well, the information which was

first publicised a few days ago was very similar to the information that

we have been getting from a range of trusted sources including sources in

the Chechen republic, the number of those sources and the consistency of

the store Chris that we were being told left us with no doubt that the

devastating developments are taking place. Dozens of males, are detained

in abduction-style detention centres in Chechnya on suspicion of being

gay. They are tortured, and three individuals at least died as a

result. Now, this situation is utterly devastating. Officials say

that gay people don't exist. This is ridiculous. The Kremlin press

service made a comment on the issue. Vladimir Putin's press secretary

said specifically that the Kremlin did not have any information about

the situation, but as there were media reports, law enforcement

agencies in Russia would look into the reports and run a check. Now,

this sounds like good news, right, like a signal to law enforcement

authorities that there is media reports come -- those media reports

cannot be ig in order, but what really bothered us on the other hand

is that the official said while those individuals who supposedly

suffered in the hands of law enforcement and security officials

in Chechnya should file official complaints and then law enforcement

agencies will look into the complaints. OK. Thank you. We're

going to leave it there, but thank you so much, Tanya. Tanya who is