11/04/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

It's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, welcome to the programme.

This morning - in the 70s and 80s almost EVERY haemophiliac patient

in this country was infected with HIV and hepatis, in one

Now this programme has learnt that a new support scheme for victims

and their families will leave some far worse off than others.

It was something I kept to myself, I was determined I wasn't going to

tell anyone because I had seen the stigma. I told a couple of close

brings, that was it, I didn't tell anyone else at all. Also North Korea

says it's ready for war and calls America reckless and outrageous are

sending in naval fleet into Korean waters. We hear from former insiders

as to what they think could happen next. And how's this for customer

relations? The world's leading airline, flyer friendly.

Why do airlines overbook in the 1st place? We will try and find out.

Good morning, welcome to the programme. We are alive until 11 AM,

we will bring you the breaking news and developing stories and we are

keen to hear from you. We will talk to former executioner who will save

why he is opposed to the death penalty, that as new figures show

the number of times it's used around the world is actually falling. And

you may be surprised that the country for the most executions are

still carried out, we will bring you the news after 10 AM. If you are

getting in touch, you can do so on the usual ways...

Just trying to tell you our programme has been nominated for a

BAFTA for our coverage of the foot dollars abuse story back in

November. The competition is very tough! -- footballers.

More than 900 adult social care workers a day left their job

Around 60% of those who quit left the adult social care

Care providers say that growing staff shortages mean vulnerable

people are receiving poorer levels of care, and the UK

Care Association claims the system is "close to collapse".

The government says an extra two billion pounds is being

The start of the morning shift at St Cecilia's nursing

It is a mid-sized 42-bed home and it is full.

The residents' conditions range from dementia sufferers to stroke

survivors and those needing end of life care.

It is a constant battle for health care assistants to meet

There should also be two nurses on shift today

I think the hardest thing is keeping the consistency because it does

If you are having a great turnover of staff, it doesn't

1.3 million people work in adult social care in England,

but last year, more than 900 day left their jobs.

Of those, 60% left social care completely.

You're not falling, you're all right.

It is high pressure, demanding and stressful work

and most care workers are paid just above the minimum wage.

You can't always get to everyone on time and it is quite upsetting

and disheartening when you find out that people earn more just stacking

shelves and you are looking after people and caring for them 24

Overnight, only two carers are on shift and tonight an agency

The Government recently committed to spending an extra ?2 billion

on the social care system and allowing local authorities

to raise council tax bills in order to fund social care services.

But with the number of 75-year-olds set to double in the next 20 years,

will there be enough staff to care for those most in need?

There is a 2nd social care story in the news today, our correspondent is

with us now. This is a report which analysed

figures from the Care Quality Commission and they say living an

unsatisfactory care homes is a grim reality but too many people. They

say a 3rd of people in the North West are inadequate or require

improvement. In certain areas such as Stockport and Salford, 2/3 of

people in care homes fall into that category. -- 2/3 of care homes. In

Manchester it is half. It doesn't quite fall into a north-south

divide, Kensington and Chelsea also have 50% of their care homes deemed

unsatisfactory according to the independent... 50%? OK. The reason

behind this, what's being done? It ties into the story you've been

running, they are saying a lack of funding, problems in recruiting

staff as we've seen, 900 social care workers putting every single day

which is quite shocking and there is inadequate support for care homes,

good care homes in K-12 with the people who are in them, the

families, the local community and their staff and they say if there

isn't a framework to help care homes do that that is where it. 4. Labour

says it is the government's fault, they are putting pressure on local

authorities in areas in the North of England and that's why they are

falling down, but in the budget last month the Chancellor Philip Hammond

pledged an extra two billion pounds for social care in England.

Charities and local authorities say that's a stopgap, a long-term

solution is needed and that is what they are calling for any forthcoming

Green paper. Let's bring you the rest of the news.

Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

Theresa May and Donald Trump have agreed there's "a window

of opportunity" to persuade Russia to abandon its support for

The US Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, will travel

to Moscow later today to meet with his Russian counterpart.

Before that foreign ministers from the G7 group of nations

will continue to meet in Italy to try to agree a co-ordinated

An eight-year-old child and his teacher have been

killed after a shooting at a school in California.

The gunman went into the school in San Bernardino yesterday

and opened fire in his estranged wife's classroom,

A second pupil is in a critical condition after being shot

by the man, who police say had a criminal history,

including domestic violence and weapons charges.

The victims of a scandal in which the NHS used contaminated

blood products to treat thousands of patients in the 70s and 80s say

a new government support scheme is "shameful".

Under the scheme, the widow of an HIV positive haemophiliac

in England could receive tens of thousands of pounds a year

less than someone living in Wales or Scotland.

The NHS infected thousands of people - many of them haemophiliacs -

with HIV and hepatitis - in one of the worst scandals

A camp housing fifteen hundred migrants in northern France has been

At least ten people have been injured at the camp,

near the port of Dunkirk, which was home to

The blaze was started after a fight between residents,

Numbers staying at the camp have grown since the closure of the much

larger 'Jungle' camp near Calais last year.

China is believed to have executed more people in 2016

than all other nations combined, according to Amnesty International

- as death penalties in the world decreased overall.

The number of executions around the world fell by more than a third,

largely driven by fewer deaths recorded in Iran and Pakistan.

But the group has sharply criticised China for continuing

The US was removed from the top five for the first time since 2006.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

Today we are discussing this PR triumph... The world's leading

airline, flyer friendly. My god... My god... What are you

doing? No... Carefully planned, coordinated and synchronised... Oh,

my god, look at what you are doing to him! My God! Performing together

with a single united bus. You have busted his lip! My God, look at what

you are doing to him! Good work, guys, good work. That's what makes

the world's leading airline, flyer friendly... I have to go home, I

have to go home, I have to go home... United Airlines are

partially apologised, the apology has been criticised, the CEO of

United Airlines acknowledged to employees that the company could

learn lessons from the incident. We'll talk to a PR expert about how

it's possible to get it so unbelievably wrong and if that will

have any long-term impact on the airline.

Let's get some sport. Olly Foster is with us this morning.

Arsenal have that horrible sinking feeling again. A couple of the

players went to the fans and apologise last night. A couple of

people in the office keeping a low profile! Biggest league defeat of

the season, losing 3- 0 to Crystal Palace, here's a couple of the

goals, really good things from Crystal Palace at the other end of

the Townsend. -- the table. Andros Townsend, and Yohan Cabaye, what a

performance. They also scored a late penalty, Arsenal fans vocal,

chanting that the players are not fit to where the shirt, and Crystal

Palace while bath-macro fans having a lot of fun. They were chanting for

the manager to stay. Palace now 6 points clear of relegation is, 5

wins out of 6, Sam Allardyce never relegated with any club, Assen

Wenger has never finished outside the top four with the Gunners.

Member some weeks ago he said he decided about his future, still

keeping it to himself although he says that uncertainty about his

future, his contract is up at the end of the season, isn't affecting

his players. -- Arsene Wenger. I am in a difficult position, the game

tonight doesn't help. Do you think it would have the situation but you

think it would help if you came out and said what that decision is? Yes,

I faced that in every press Conference at the moment and tonight

I am not in the mood to speak about that. When do you think you will let

the fans know? At the moment, I think I paid more respect to the

fact that we had a disappointing result and focus on that, not find

excuses that are not excuses, but nope what counts is how we perform

on the pitch. John Southall with the questions, another difficult

interview for Arsene Wenger, 8 games left for the club to try and turn

things around. Those fans who are already pretty angry with the

manager or even angrier. Yes the ones at Selhurst Park but social

media got very swearing last night, a generation of fans who have never

known anything but Arsenal with Arsene Wenger, over 20 years. Ian

Wright helped Arsene Wenger win his 1st trophy of the club years ago and

he got some stick on social media. Most pertinently he put this tweet

about... A lively Monday Night Football on 5

live, here is Chris Sutton and his take on the Gunners and he echoes

that sentiment that Arsene Wenger has lost the dressing room. This is

a manager who manage the invincible is and is managing the invisibles

now. You know... There are ways to lose a football match. He's not

getting the best out of the players, he has to go, he has to go and they

have to get someone else in. Could someone go in and do a better job?

Absolutely. They aren't listening. That is what usually does for

managers, not fans getting angry it's when the players stop playing

for the manager and that is what the owner is going to be looking at, to

see if they are not listening to Arsene Wenger any more. We will see

if his Arsenal team are more visible next week, Middlesbrough await next

Monday night. Let's talk about Andy Murray who is back on Court at

least. A real worry, about a month ago people of a tournament in

America, the hard court season, with a slight tear in his elbow, thought

he was going to miss the start of the clay-court season but he

honoured a promise to Roger Federer at to play in a charity match last

night in Zurich. All furry light-hearted, Murray was losing, he

lost the match in straight sets and gave the ball boy a couple of serve

sex commission mark on match point down. Perhaps a bad idea. He lost

the match with a double fault but good to see him back out and get 3 a

match and he might get through the Monte Carlo Masters in the

clay-court season which would be great news. Thank you so much. More

from the sports desk throughout the morning.

In the 70s and 80s, thousands of haemophiliacs were treated

with blood products that were contaminated.

At just one school for disabled pupils in Hampshire dozens of young

men were subsequently infected with HIV and hepatitis.

72 of those boys, some as young as eight-years-old,

Now the victims of the scandal and their families tell this

programme a new support scheme planned by the Government

could leave many struggling to pay mortgages and bills.

Under the scheme the widow of an HIV positive haemophiliac in England

could receive tens of thousands of pounds a year less than someone

Haemophilia is a genetic disorder which prevents

You might only need treatment during operations and things

like that, or it can be severe where you have to have injections

In what is said to be the biggest medical disaster

since the health service was set up, more than 1000 people

with haemophilia have been infected with Aids antibodies.

In the 70s and 80s, thousands were treated

Almost every British haemophiliac was infected with hepatitis or HIV.

Many did not live long enough to be saved by modern drugs.

In my school year, for example, I think I'm the only one left now.

I am not the same person. I will never be the same person.

I always say, and I firmly believe this, they gave him

Aids, they locked him up and watched him die.

30 years later, survivors and relatives of the dead

Families are worried that a new support scheme,

years in the making, could in fact leave many

This programme has seen documents showing the Government has again

ruled out a public inquiry into one of the worst treatment scandals

The school is just up here on the left, just past

Lee is 48 years old and a severe haemophiliac.

This is the first time he has ever spoken on camera.

Even today, some of his close family don't know he has been

He describes himself as one of the lucky ones.

Of the 1,200 British haemophiliacs infected with both HIV and hepatitis

I went to a normal school up to the age of 11 and then at that

time the local education authority, they felt it would be better

if I was sent to a boarding school for physically handicapped people -

Lee was just one of a large number of young haemophiliacs sent

The school had a special unit to treat the condition.

72 of those boys have now died after being given a new drug meant

I was called over to the haemophilia centre and told that I had been

infected with HIV and they didn't know how long I would actually

have left because there was no known cure.

Do you remember what your reaction was when they told you?

It was kind of shock, obviously, just like somebody

Because we knew that a batch of treatment was infected,

a large number of haemophiliacs at the school were all

In my school year, for example, I think I'm the only one left now.

Many in the years above and below me, also many of those

It is devastating for the community and particularly for that school.

Did you feel that you could tell other people about it at the time?

No, it was something I kept to myself.

I was determined that I was not going to tell anybody

I told a couple of close friends, that was it.

I kept it to myself. I didn't tell anybody else at all.

Lee says he doesn't blame the school or the staff

He left and went on to have a career in management.

But by the late 90s, he was suffering from

He needed a liver transplant and then spent months in hospital

being treated for lymphoma, a blood cancer, caused by the other

We need to know why it happened because...

The more we see, the more it seems something could have

I think you need those answers to understand fully

why our lives have taken the course they have.

Life for severe haemophiliacs like Lee was never easy,

but by the start of the 1970s, there was hope.

A new drug called Factor VIII restored the ability

Britain relied on imports from America and there prisoners

and drug addicts were being paid to donate blood

Scientists at the National Center for Disease Control in Atlanta today

released the results of a study which shows that the lifestyle

of some male homosexuals has triggered an epidemic of a rare

By 1982, concern was growing over the mysterious new disease

linked to the collapse of the immune system.

It's definitely transmissible. Just how, I don't know.

The effects on families like this has been devastating.

Women carry the faulty gene, but it is almost always the male

Five brothers in this family were all haemophiliac.

Four were infected with contaminated blood, three have now died.

Tony was just 14 years old when his dad, Barry, succumbed to Aids.

In 2010, he finally got hold of his father's old medical records.

This is the first time he is making them public.

Through the early 1980s, your father appears to be

The hospital treatment became more regular.

My father was constantly asking about his prognosis.

He was very worried because he was dying of Aids,

something that he should never have been exposed to.

I only found this out one I was 37 years old,

The records show Barry was a mild haemophiliac whose symptoms

He might not have needed the new Factor VIII drug

As a result, he was infected with hepatitis B, then

Entries in the log show doctors were aware he might

have the virus two years before he was finally told.

My parents split up when I was a baby.

Things started to get bad within our family group

I couldn't go home, so social services were contacted

I was 13 years old, I think, when I was placed in care.

Tony was sent to live in children's home as his father's

His dad was in hospital in the summer of 1986 when Tony went

He had started to lose weight by then, he was really skinny.

I do remember my dad asking me for some of my ice cream

and I handed it to him at which point one of the nurses

intervened and said, you can't give him that.

He had blisters in his mouth. They were bleeding.

So obviously, I couldn't share an ice cream with my dad

Looking back on it now, at the time, I didn't think too much into it,

but looking back over it, I was disgusted.

I did have physical contact with my dad.

I could give him a hug. I said goodbye.

Barry's death in 1986 split the family apart.

Tony went back into care, his twin brother, David,

went to the separate care home in north London.

The whole family were only reunited 24 years later.

2nd August 2010, that was the first time all our

They destroyed my dad with these viruses and then

Since Barry's death, two of his brothers,

both infected haemophiliacs, have also died.

Vincent from an Aids related illness.

Dave from a brain haemorrhage linked to hepatitis C.

The family, like others, say a full public inquiry is long overdue.

The treatment shouldn't kill you, should it?

The cafe he used to use, I went in there with him one day

How important is it for you now as a family, this talk of public

inquiries and getting answers about what caused this

and what happened, do you need those answers as a family?

I can't move on. I wish I could move on.

Unless it is brought out and we get to the bottom

of what happened, why it happened, who is going to take responsibility

for it happening, how do we know this won't happen again?

The UK has dealt with this differently from other countries.

In France, a former prime minister was charged with manslaughter

Here, there have been two limited investigations,

but neither have the powers of a full public inquiry.

Families still want to know why we imported Factor VIII from abroad

rather than producing it ourselves and why the drug continued to be

used even after it was clear there might be a risk

In 2015, David Cameron did something no Prime Minister had done before.

I would like to say sorry on behalf of the Government for something that

No amount of money can ever fully make up for what did happen,

but it is vital we move as soon as possible to improve the way

payments are made to those affected by this blood.

But even after that apology, there was still the question

of compensation or financial support for the victims and their families.

Again, 30 years later, that is not something that has ever

Bob was admitted to hospital on 17th February this year.

26 years ago, Sue and Bob were part of a landmark BBC

I'm sure nobody wanted this to happen.

Having said that, at least it has taught me that it

There isn't a lot I can do without making myself breathless

Bob, a haemophiliac infected in the 80s, passed away just

As a family, as a couple, as individuals, everything we had

planned for just went out the window.

The life I thought I would be living today is very far removed

We would have retired round about the same time,

and we would have been able to relax and enjoy ourselves a bit and enjoy

the children, and he would have enjoyed his grandchildren.

Sue has spent the last 25 years as a campaigner,

pushing the Government to explain what happened to her husband

She was unimpressed with the then-Prime Minister's

If I got David Cameron here now, I would say,

What specifically are you talking about?"

I don't believe he would have the faintest idea,

We have been doing this year in, year out, and there will be people

listening to this programme who will say, "They have been

banging on about an apology for nearly 30 years,

they have got one, and they are still moaning."

But an apology is only worth giving and worth taking

One major concern is a new financial support scheme for victims

The Government says that since that speech in 2015 it has doubled

the amount it is spending, but we have seen documents showing

under new plans the worst affected will get thousands less

Many could even see payments fall as more people qualify.

Our analysis shows the planned scheme in England and Northern

Ireland would pay out inevitably less than in Scotland and Wales.

The widow of an HIV-positive haemophiliac in Scotland,

for example, will receive more than ?27,000 every year.

In England, just one single one-off payment of ?10,000.

They are payments that people rely on to pay mortgages, rent,

feed their families, and if that sounds dramatic,

I don't make an apology, because it is true.

Bob could have been sitting next to someone at clinic and both

of them had treatment from the same batch, both infected on the same

day, with the same viruses, and yet because his friend moved

to Scotland and Bob stayed in England, you get this huge

Last month, the influential Haemophilia Society called

for a full public inquiry into the scandal, joining

For the moment, that is something the Government in Westminster says

is unnecessary and could delay those support payments.

What makes you now still want to question it,

The more we have found out, the more there is to question.

The deeper in we get, we think, what is really behind this?

People must have seen what was going on, they must have

seen that people were watching the haemophiliacs develop Aids.

Thank you for your comments. A viewer on Facebook says my father

died through contaminated blood products and we are still fighting

for justice. Jackie says the victims of contaminated land...

Later in the programme we'll speak to one politician who's calling

A life extending breast cancer drug that is deemed too expensive

in England is being made available on the NHS in Scotland.

We'll be getting reaction from patients and campaigners.

More people were put to death in China last year than in the whole

of the rest of the world - that's according to a new report -

We'll talk to a former executioner who tells us why he no longer

believes in the death penalty. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. More than 900 adult social care

workers a day quit their job in England last year,

according to new figures. Of these, 60% left

the profession entirely. Care providers say that growing

staff shortages mean vulnerable people are receiving poorer levels

of care, and the UK Care Association claims the system

is "close to collapse". The Government says an extra

?2 billion is being A 30 9 -year-old accused of killing

4 people in an attack in stock has accepted his detention. -- 39

-year-old. Theresa May and Donald Trump have

agreed there's "a window of opportunity" to persuade Russia

to abandon its support for The US Secretary of State,

Rex Tillerson, will travel to Moscow later today to meet

with his Russian counterpart. Before that foreign ministers

from the G7 group of nations will continue to meet in Italy

to try to agree a co-ordinated An eight-year-old child

and his teacher have been killed after a shooting

at a school in California. The gunman went into the school

in San Bernardino yesterday and opened fire in his estranged

wife's classroom, A second pupil is in a critical

condition after being shot by the man, who police say had

a criminal history, including domestic violence

and weapons charges. The victims of a scandal

in which the NHS used contaminated blood products to treat thousands

of patients in the 70s and 80s say a new government support

scheme is "shameful". Under the scheme, the widow

of an HIV positive haemophiliac in England could receive tens

of thousands of pounds a year less than someone living

in Wales or Scotland. The NHS infected thousands of

people, many of them haemophiliacs with HIV and hepatitis in one

of the worst scandals A camp housing 1,500 migrants

in northern France has been At least ten people have been

injured at the camp, near the port of Dunkirk,

which was home to The blaze was started

after a fight between residents, Numbers staying at the camp have

grown since the closure of the much larger Jungle camp

near Calais last year. That's a summary of

the latest BBC News. Back to give Victoria. Inflation

figures are just out, in March, the rate was 2 points 3%, those figures

in from the Office of National Statistics, the same as it was in

February, consumer prices inflation, unchanged from the reading in

February. The headline this morning, Arsenal

still 7 points off the top four, suffering their biggest defeat of

the season, 3- 0 to Crystal Palace. Arsene Wenger says uncertainty over

his future isn't affecting players but former player Ian Wright says he

has lost the dressing room. Claudio Ranieri says he never lost the

dressing room at Leicester and speaking publicly about his sacking

the 1st time he told Sky Sports there wasn't a revolt but someone

else behind-the-scenes might have been working against him. After

time-out with an elbow injury Andy Murray appeared on Court playing

against Roger Federer and says he might be fit for the start of the

clay-court season in Monte Carlo next week. Those are the headlines,

I'll be back in about 30 minutes. A life extending breast cancer drug

rejected as too expensive for England and Wales is going to be

made available for The drug Kadcyla can help those

with incurable breast cancer, known as HER-2, live a little

longer, but it's really And that means NICE,

the body responsible for deciding which treatments are cost

effective for the NHS, has decided it should

no longer be available to NHS patients in England and Wales

from June this year. It's an issue we investigated

earlier this year. The amount of good quality time and

the amount of time my family expected to have of me has been cut

down. It's incredibly unfair, when you are told you have cancer at this

young age, you think why me, why have I been singled out to get this

bad luck? And to be told that a drug is taken away from you could extend

your life, it's unfair... A decision by a consultancy means

the drug could be available in Scotland but not in England and

Wales. campaigned for Kadcyla

to be made available. Alison Tait is a breast cancer

patient in Edinburgh who has campaigned for Kadcyla

to be made available. Janine Brook is a breast cancer

patient in Nottingham who says Kadcyla gave her years

of extra quality life. In the studio Fiona Hazell,

director of policy and engagement Allassani had been campaigning for

this, how do you feel. Really delighted for the and about the

outcome. -- Alison. We've been able to influence them to give a positive

result for women in Scotland and hopefully pave the way for something

firmer -- similar for women in the rest of the UK. The drug is

expensive, do you think this is a valid way of spending taxpayers

money? I have to say yes, of course, it's like extending for myself, I

think you would get a really great answer to that if you asked my

daughter or my parents. It absolutely is, the women that I know

who suffer from the same type of cancer that I have seen to be fairly

young, they have young families, it's not so much about me but it's

about my family and children and by Terence and absolutely, we need to

give them that quality of life for them and for me, it's not just about

myself. I am going to bring in Fiona, let's look at how it's being

made available in Scotland but not England and Wales. The Scottish

medicines Consortium say and I quote... We were able to accept it

on resubmission because the company offered an improved patient access

scheme, a confidential discount that improves the cost effectiveness of a

medicine. We don't know the cause but they've agreed but that is

obviously key, isn't it? Absolutely. It's great news for women like

Alison in Scotland who suffer from this type of breast cancer, there

aren't many options for them, we understand the Company has offered

significant discounts to make it happen and I think it's important to

emphasise that the FMC has listened to the voices of patients and their

friends that signed a petition and have listened to the clinicians that

want to make the drug available because it's effective. -- SMC. It

gives women like Alison many more months and in some cases years with

their families and as Alison says, the drug which is targeting the

breast cancer that Alison has, tends to affect younger women who have

families and so this is an important drug for them and it offers limited

options. The same deal that has been struck between the company and

Scotland could be struck between the company and the NHS. I must

emphasise some of the reporting today says Kadcyla is not available

in England but it is, nice are currently reviewing and appraising

whether it should continue to be available. The recommendation from

the draft consultation is that it should be withdrawn. The current

recommendation is that unless a deal can be done that is what will happen

however we know that both nice and comfy working hard to come a deal,

we would urge them to work hard and follow the example of the targeted

in Scotland and give women in England and Wales and Northern

Ireland the opportunity to access this drug, it's really important for

women with breast cancer. Jenin, good morning. I gather it's your

40th birthday today. Happy birthday. Thank you and this is a year that I

never thought I would see. Thanks to Kadcyla, I am here today. How does

that feel? Amazing. If you asked me several years ago if I would make it

to my 40th I would probably say no but the cause of the amount of drugs

that I have had, I have benefited from several drugs, 1 taken off the

cancer drug front and Kadcyla I had an drugs trial and I was on this for

over two years and the important thing for me, and many other women,

is that without these drugs, you wouldn't get so long, years, and you

wouldn't be eligible for drugs trials. It's not just about Kadcyla

giving us years or months, it's about what's next, getting there and

being there for your family and friends and still surviving. It's

actually living with breast cancer and not dying from it that

important. You believe Kadcyla has given you at least 2 1/2 years extra

of your life. The average is 9 months but it's important to know

there are women like you who are living for years with that.

Absolutely, it is. I know quite a pew people who successfully been on

this drug for years, and were not talking months, we are talking years

of good quality life and I have carried on working, raising my

children, I'm going to see important milestones, my eldest daughter go to

secondary school and Timmy, I still feel well today and this is

important, I'm not dying with secondary breast cancer, I'm alive,

living, I have reached 40 and I am determined I am going to reach 45.

Do you think the decision in Scotland will influence or the deal

that's been struck in Scotland will influence what could happen in

England? I really hope it will. They've only got to look at people

like me and other people, to see that it's worth the money, it's not

just keeping people here 4 months, it's years. I don't believe you can

actually put a price on this at all and I really hope this will pave the

way to routinely keep Kadcyla on the NHS in England and Wales. It has to,

so many people can benefit from this drug and I feel so passionately

about this drug, they need to listen and know that it's not about these

months and I hope I'll still be alive in 10 years time because of

Kadcyla and the years it's given me, to fill that gap to get me onto

other drugs and the scientists are working so hard to bring out other

targeted drugs that we need to be here to see these drugs get licensed

and moving forward. Nice say they would like to be able to support the

routine use of Kadcyla on the NHS and we are open to an approach from

the company about how they can make this happen, they've been in touch

with us and we are arranging a further meeting with them during the

consultation period. Alison, doctors I think it can't give you an exact

prognosis but what does the decision in Scotland mean for your future

treatment? For me it gives me a great deal of hope and positive

outlook for my future at the moment, I am on a different treatment, when

that starts to control my disease, the spread the continuation, Kadcyla

is potentially a drug that be offered to me. This gives me a

massive amount of hope, a bit like your last speaker, it's not just

another 5 years down the line but it could be 10 years, that means I

could see my daughter's 21st, see her get married, the options for me

are massive. It's not just about those months, as your last speaker

said it's everything else that comes along with that, the future of other

treatments, the testing I could get involved in, trials, developing more

and more options to help people survive with this and see it as a

critical illness rather than a terminal disease. Thank you Alison

in Edinburgh, Janine Brooke in Nottingham and Fiona. Thank you all.

Coming up, the parents of a desperately ill eight-month-old

baby will find out today if he will be taken off life support

or allowed to travel to America for experimental treatment.

We'll speak to one mother who had to make a similar heartbreaking

decision. North Korea has warned

that it is ready for war. Its foreign ministry has issued

a statement calling America "reckless" and "outrageous"

for sending a naval It comes amid growing

international concerns over In a moment we'll speak

to a North Korean defector, But first, let's take a look

at what we know about the country. We can now speak to Ji Hyun Park

who is in Salford. She's a North Korean defector

now living in the UK. Jean H Lee is a global

fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center

for Scholars in America. She spent three years

in the North Korean capital, Pyongyang, as bureau chief

for the Associated Press, and joins Jean H Lee, North Korea says it will

defend itself by powerful force of arms. What do you think that means?

The arrival of the strike group to Korean waters gives the North

Koreans the excuse to defend themselves. They will use this as an

opportunity to test another nuclear device or perhaps test another

ballistic missile. It is possible that they won't, but what they do is

this rhetoric to sort of bring the people together and give them

something to unite around and you know the threat of an outside force

or outsider is always something that will bring people together and the

North Koreans will use this to their advantage. Should the West take the

rhetoric seriously? We do see this rhetoric this time of year, every

year, this year in particular because it's the 105th anniversary

of the founder of the birth of the founder of North Korea so they have

additional reason to try to rally the people together. You know, one

of the things that we're really concerned about those of us watching

North Korea is the pace of the development of ballistic and nuclear

missiles. We haven't seen this pace under previous leaders. Every time

they test launch a missile or an engine they are testing and

improving that technology and it gets them closer to being able to

put a hydrogen nuclear bomb on a missile that's designed to strike

the United States. You know, news inside north cordeeia

is tightly controlled. There is one state media broadcasts propaganda,

will the people of North Korea were aware of these movements by the US

naval fleet? Can you explain again? I can't hear you properly. Do you

think the people inside North Korea will be aware that the US naval

fleet has moved into the Korean peninsula? Yes, inside North Korea,

North Korea always brain washes and America is the enemy country and the

North Korean Government brain washes the North Korean defectors. How

seriously do you think we should take North Korea's statement that it

will defend itself by, "Powerful force of arms"? When I lived within

North Korea, I believed that North Korea is a strong country in our

world and why we get nuclear wepons and the missiles, but now days I

understand it is totally wrong because it is not only America and

South Korea problem, it is a world problem. Jean, in terms of North

Korea's nuclear programme, we have seen obviously the testing of

various weapons, but how advanced is it? North Korea has made these

nuclear devices small enough and in the last test they say they had

standardised the militarisation of these nuclear bombs which means they

may have made a number of them and they may have a number of nuclear

bombs at their disposal to continue testing. So aside from the threat of

proliferation, not to mention a nuclear attack I would wonder about

the issue of nuclear safety and security. This is a country that

kicked out international inspectors years ago so there is nobody really

safeguarding this. Nobody in the international world really

safeguarding and make sure that this highly dangerous nuclear material is

being kept safe. I just wanted to go back, these nuclear weapons are

something the regime wants their people to be proud of. This is a

small, poor country and these nuclear weapons are command the

world's attention of the it is happening right now and this is

something that they can really parade to their people and tell

their people to be proud of. So, at a time when they didn't have enough

to eat, they have power shortages, this is something that they can ral

yu around and so for us to understand how much of a part it

plays in their propaganda and sort of instilling a sense of pride in

the people and that tells us how unwilling they are going to be to

give that up. You said it was brain washing. So people have no choice,

but to be proud of the nuclear developments in North Korea, is that

right? Yes. When I lived within North Korea

I lectured about the nuclear weapons. We learned about that and

the Government taught us why we get the nuclear weapons, but at that

time, I didn't understand that this was, the nuclear weapons were

dangerous. But now a days I learned that this one is not only South

Korea and America problems, so many North Korean people, they still

believe about that because they don't, they never heard about the

outside news and because in North Korea it is only one channel TV and

the one newspaper and on the news it is always about the propaganda

issues and they never write about why we don't use the nuclear

weapons. Yes, so many people they still don't know that yet. Thank you

very much, both of you. Thank you. Thank you for your comments about

our first report this morning, the fact that thousands of haemophiliacs

and others actually who were contaminated with dirty blood when

they were treated on the NHS 30 years ago are waiting for justice.

Ronan says, "My family have been torn apart by this. We lost mum in

November 2015. We can't move on and we do want justice." I will read

some more in the next hour in the programme when we talk about it

further. Let's get the latest

weather update with Phil. Good morning to you. A rather mixed

bag of weather across the British Isles. It is difficult to know what

face to put on for you really. Wet and windy in the north. Elsewhere,

it is really a decent spring day. If you can get yourself far away from

the front, the weather looks like that. Closer to those weather

fronts, fArn faring well, if you were further north and west again,

it will be one of those days. The weather front not moving very fast

into the middle part of the afternoon of the it is not all doom

and gloom. The southern counties of England and Wales faring nicely. I'm

sure somewhere in the South East could be looking at 15, 16 Celsius

and possibly 17 Celsius. Not too much in the way of breeze. Generally

speaking, as you drift your way towards the weather fronts the cloud

increases for the north of England and southern parts of Scotland. Even

here, there will be brightness. That will be in short supply as you can

imagine with the wet and windy combination dominating the scene

north of the great glen and through the Western Isles and maybe the

Northern Isles will buck up as the day goes on. Through the evening and

overnight, we will keep the area of low pressure close by to the north

of Scotland. Notice the number of isobars the wind a feature in the

north of Scotland throughout the course of the night. During

Wednesday, that weather front has the good grace to move further south

weakening all the while. Gardeners if you need rain in the southern

counties, this is not the feature for you. A fresher feel and

brightness and sunny spells and showers. A word to the wise for

gardeners, it could be a chilly night, Wednesday night into

Thursday. That's the towns and cities. Cooler in the countryside.

Thursday is a mixture again of a fair amount of dry weather around,

but no doubt about it, again it's the north western quarter of the

British Isles that gets the real peppering of showers if not longer

spells of rain. I've changed the day into Good Friday the we are moving

towards the weekend. So no heatwave, but the temperatures not too bad for

the time of year. And then into Saturday, we've got that area of low

pressure still close by to the northern parts of Scotland. Isobars

tightly packed there. So breezy fair, the wind in from the wes and

north-west and looking across the piste, it is a day of showers, if

not the odd longer spell of rain with sunshine in short supply. So

the Easter weekend, oh dear, it doesn't start very well, does it? If

you hang on in there to Easter day, it is looking to be a drier,

brighter affair across many parts of the British Isles. Whether we keep

it going until Monday, you have to wait and see.

It's one of the most serious NHS scandals.

Haemophiliacs are suffering from hepatitis and HIV

because they were treated with contaminated blood

This programme has learned that a new support scheme will leave some

worse off than others. We need to know why this has happened, how did

this happen? The more we see, the more we think something could have

been done about it, we need those answers.

China executed more people than the rest of the world put

together last year - according to a human rights group -

we hear from a man who used to administer the death penalty

before deciding to campaign against it.

I have been trying to take a life under very narrow circumstances so

taking someone's life was not a foreign notion to me. But I do not

believe in taking anyone's life under any circumstance when there

are reasonable alternatives. United Airlines has just gone

through one PR battle over how it We'll be asking how the company can

recover its reputation and speaking to a former airline boss

about the rise in companies The main suspect in last week's

Stockholm lorry attack has admitted Four people died in the attack,

and 15 were injured, when a lorry ploughed

into a crowded shopping street. The lawyer for Rakhmat Akilov,

a 39-year-old Uzbek, told a court hearing in Stockholm

that his client 'confesses to a terrorist crime

and accepts his detention.' More than 900 adult social care

workers a day quit their job in England last year,

according to new figures. Of these, 60% left

the profession entirely. Care providers say that growing

staff shortages mean vulnerable people are receiving poorer levels

of care, and the UK Care Association claims the system

is "close to collapse". The government says an extra

two billion pounds is being The UK inflation rate has remained

stable partly thanks to the fall in the pound and the Brexit Ford which

has raised import prices. -- Brexit fold.

Theresa May and Donald Trump have agreed there's "a window

of opportunity" to persuade Russia to abandon its support for

The US Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, will travel

to Moscow later today to meet with his Russian counterpart.

Before that foreign ministers from the G7 group of nations

will continue to meet in Italy to try to agree a co-ordinated

An 8-year-old child and his teacher have been killed after a shooting

The gunman went into the school in San Bernardino yesterday

and opened fire in his estranged wife's classroom,

A second pupil is in a critical condition after being shot

by the man, who police say had a criminal history,

including domestic violence and weapons charges.

A camp housing fifteen hundred migrants in northern France has been

At least 10 people have been injured at the camp,

near the port of Dunkirk, which was home to

The blaze was started after a fight between residents,

Numbers staying at the camp have grown since the closure of the much

larger 'Jungle' camp near Calais last year.

The victims of a scandal in which the NHS used contaminated blood

products to treat patients in the 70s and 80s the government support

scheme is shameful. Under the scheme the widow of an HIV-positive

haemophiliac in England could receive tens of thousands of pounds

a year 1 living in Wales or Scotland. The NHS treated in the

Philly is with blood contaminated with HIV and hepatitis. Gavin on

Facebook says I'm David Dunn, infected with hepatitis C, I am aged

36 and there is no justice and we want a full public inquiry. -- I am

a victim. If you are getting in touch, you are welcome. These are

the ways to get in touch, you can see them at the bottom of your

screen. Here is Ollie with the sport. Ian Wright says Arsen Wenger

has lost the dressing room, The Gunners slumping to their biggest

league defeat of the season losing 3- 0 at Crystal Palace, remaining 7

points off the top four. -- Arsene Wenger. He still won't reveal what

decision he has made about his future but says the uncertainty

isn't a fact the players. I face that in every press Conference,

tonight I am not in the mood to speak about that. When do you think

you will... I think at the moment, I paid more respect to the fact that

it is a disappointing result and focus on that and not find as well

excuses but I am not excusing... Claudio Ranieri said he never lost

the dressing room at Leicester and the rumoured players revolt wasn't

to blame for his sacking. Speaking publicly put the 1st time about his

dismissal in February the Italian says someone might have been working

behind-the-scenes to push him out but not the players. They delivered

the Premier League title just 9 months earlier. Finally it was only

a charity match but there was a welcome return for Andy Murray last

night. The world number 1 who missed the past month with an elbow injury

was playing in Zurich against Roger Federer, he lost the match, it was

all very light-hearted, but he's announced he could be said for the

start of the clay-court season which is next week in Monte Carlo! That is

all for now. I will be back later. 6 minutes past 10, good morning.

Thousands of people infected with HIV and hepatitis as a result of NHS

treatment in the 1970s and 80s. Dozens of pupils were infected at a

school in Hampshire, treated with dirty blood, 72 of them have since

died, their families still seeking decades later a public inquiry into

the scandal, how it happened and why. Now victims tell this programme

a new support scheme planned by the government could leave many

struggling to pay mortgages and bills. Under the scheme the widow of

an HIV-positive in the Philly act in England could receive tens of

thousands of pounds a year less and someone living in Wales or Scotland.

Our reporter Jim Reid has spoken to 3 people affected by the scandal, we

brought you the full film earlier but here's a short extract. Just

appear on the left... Carry on. Lee is 48 and a haemophiliac, a

condition which means blood doesn't clot properly. This is his 1st TV

interview, some of his close family don't know he's been HIV-positive

since childhood. I went to a normal school at the age of 11, they

thought it would be better if I was sent to boarding school for

physically handicapped people. It's a college based in Hampshire. He was

1 of a large number of young haemophiliacs sent here in the early

80s, 72 of those boys have now died after being given a new drug meant

to improve their lives. There is no suggestion the school was to blame

for what happened. I was told I'd been infected with HIV and they

didn't know how long I would have left because there was no known

cure. You were 16, 17 at the time? Do you remember your reaction? It

was kind of shock, obviously, Dykes and being told they had cancer,

that's what it felt like me. At the start of the 1970s there was hope

haemophiliacs, a drug called factor 8 but there was a major problem,

Britain on imports from America and their prisoners were paid to donate

blood, this just as the HIV virus started to take hold. The effect on

families like this has been devastating. Haemophilia is a

genetic condition, women carried the faulty gene but it's almost always

the male side that is affected. Tony was just 14 when his dad Barry, a

haemophiliac, died from aids. Things started to get bad within the family

group Custer was unwell. I couldn't go home so social services were

contacted and I was placed in care. I was 13 years old when I was placed

in care, they destroyed my dad with this virus and they watched Stanley

crumble. A major concern now is a new financial support scheme for big

arms and their families, the government says it is doubling the

amount it spending since 2015 but you've seen documents showing under

new plans the worst affected will get thousands of pounds less than

1st promised, any could see payments falling. 26 years ago Sue and Bob

were part of a landmark BBC documentary about HIV. As a family,

a couple, individuals, it meant everything we planned for went out

the window. Sue has spent the last 25 years as a campaigner, pushing

the government to explain what happened to her husband and others

like him. The more we found out, the deeper in we get, we think, my God,

what is really behind this? They must have seen that they were

watching haemophiliacs develop aids but why didn't anyone stop it? We

ask the Department of Health for an interview but they said no. We can

speak to two survivors of the blood contamination scandal, Mark who is

talking to us from his bed and Andy, both infected with HIV when treated

as children for their haemophilia, and eat when he was 5, Mark when he

was 7. Baroness Meacher is here as well. Calling for a public inquiry.

Thank you also much for talking to us. Mark, it you are in bed as a

direct result of the effect of HIV, is that correct? Yes and no, it's

the haemophilia impacted by the HIV. Explain to our audience what it's

like 4 years, living with this? It's like you are constantly walking

around with somebody pointing a loaded gun to your head under this

dark cloud. Because, why? Because of the stories that were coming out of

the United States as well as here in the UK and peoples homes being

attacked, you lived in constant fear. When we were told, the doctors

discussed HIV with my parents, because I was too young, they

basically said to them in so many words, don't tell anybody that

doesn't need to know. Because we can't guarantee your safety. Because

of the stigma surrounding HIV? Yes, in the early days of the aids

crisis, we are talking, broad panic, I didn't know if I was going to be

able to go to school, my parents had to meet with the headmaster and some

of the School trustees. To even allow me to continue schooling. What

is the issue today for you, now? The issue is we've never been told why

or how this happened. And if I could take 1 moment, I was born in 1969

but in 1958, Doctor Garrett Alan warned about the use of mass food

blood products and he turned the phrase the prison effect because

they were using what he deemed as skid Row donors. There are was

warnings 11 years before I was born, many, many years before I even came

to get factor a treatment there have been deaths within haemophilia, they

knew the treatment was potentially fatal because of hepatitis viruses,

hepatitis B was already being flagged up by other programmes and

haemophiliacs had died before again, I got the treatment. But they still

went ahead and used it and... You need to know why? Yes. We are

potentially looking at now, over 2000 haemophiliacs die, almost the

equivalent of 5 jumbo jets. If 1 jumbo jet crashed today they would

be an investigation of the finest detail to make sure it never happens

again. But with the haemophiliac community Experian much like with

the contempt they have always shown for us, well, because they are all

dead, they are haemophiliacs, they are expensive and I quote... We are

cheaper than chimpanzees to experiment on. If I may, we have got

visitors from many people affected and I want to read some if I may be

for hearing from Andy and Baroness Meacher. Nigel posted, I have severe

haemophilia V and I was infected with hepatitis C when I was 14, I'm

52 and I want to know who allowed me to be infected by contaminated

blood, I want to know by the government says there is no need for

a public inquiry, I need to know the truth. Ross and says... I have a

severe bleeding disorder and I was infected with hepatitis C multiple

times as a child, I was 19, now I'm 43 but my life has been devastated

by the treatment. I have health issues that I cannot overcome and

mentally I've been traumatised time and time again, not just by the

virus itself but by the lack of respect shown by the government over

the years. When will this disaster be properly investigated? Andy on

Facebook, I am 1 of the original haemophiliacs infected with HIV and

hepatitis C and I can't even begin to explain how it grew and my life,

having aids in 1984 pretty well finished any possibility of a normal

life. Andy, you contracted hepatitis C and HIV after receiving

contaminated blood for haemophilia. Through an intravenous injection

administered at home. What has it been like living with both those

conditions for all this time? Shane you were a boy? Indeed, 1st of all

because of the nature of haemophilia and the way that treatment was

pulled it would have been several injections over a period of time and

I would have been exposed to both of the viruses, each time I had a

treatment. 3 or 4 times a week. So it could have been my mother that

gave that to me and you can imagine how that might make a parent feel or

it could have been myself when I was at the age of 5, I was trained to

give myself intravenous injections so I may have infected myself

multiple times. I didn't find out about my Internet until I was 13, my

parents told me, they didn't find out until 2 or 3 years after the

doctors knew I was infected. That information was kept from them. But

during the time I didn't know, I was visiting the Children's Hospital in

Birmingham. And a lot of other people, haemophiliacs, were coming

alongside me and 1 by 1, they were not coming any more. And I found out

that was because 1 by 1, they were dying. And they were dying of aids.

And we are talking children from 3 until 16. All of them dying of aids.

We heard Mark say he wants to know how and why this happened. What do

you know about why it happened? We know that the United States was

using blood plasma that came from Skid Row donors. People who would

have lied and were in need of money and would have lied on their forms

to say they were clean of these infections and risky practises. We

know that plasma was anonymised when the United States found this was

going on. It was routed through Canada and exported across the

world, not just to the UK, but all around the world. And that's why

there are so many, this scandal is a worldwide scandal. It was coming

from those donors, despite warnings as Mark has already said, decades

previously and in the run-up to these infections. Despite those

warnings, it was continued to be used and for whatever reason, people

were not told the true risks of it. If it is a worldwide scandal, which

it is, why are people not shouting about this? I think it's because in

some countries it has been shouted about. I think in your report there,

it was shown that one of the ex-Prime Ministers in France was

held up on a count of manslaughter because of it. In Japan there was an

inquiry and leaders forced it apologise to haemophiliacs there.

But in this country, it has been swept under the carpet over and over

again and because we're dying, at a rate at the moment of something like

one a month, as opposed to in a large group all at one time, it can

be brushed aside. It's not seen as the massive, massive scandal that it

actually is. Baroness What would you like Theresa

May's Government to do? It is essential at this point, I think,

that she asks for a public inquiry. It has never happened overall these

years, while these people have been dying, month by month, and people

have been so badly recognise come penced. They have never been

compensated and the sort of money that they receive leaves them at the

poverty level and the new scheme that the Government is now bringing

in reduces people's income, people with HIV for example, they have been

receiving ?19,000 to ?25,000 a year depending on the family size and

they're going down now to ?155 UN, can you imagine what that means to

people who are very sick, who have had a lifetime of misery and

ill-health? Then to be told, sorry, we're going to reduce your income.

In Scotland people will be receiving ?37,000 a year. How is it this

country, well off, rich country, can be so cruel to some very sick people

who are only sick because of errors made by the NHS and Government? The

Department of Health says this was an unprecedented tragedy. We're

continuing to work closely with those affected to make sure the

right support is in police for them. We have more than doubled our annual

spend on payments to people affected since 2015.

Committing an additional ?125 million as well as providing an

annual payment to all infected individuals. We are consulting on

new measures? That assessment of money doesn't take account at all as

I understand of it the mac far land Trust moneys. We have to look at

what is happening to the individuals. People are going to be

very, very much worse off, not a bit worse off, OK, they may get some

discretionary payments on top of the ?15,500, for example, but we know

what happens when governments have discretionary payments and the

budget is tight. The fact is those discretionary payments don't come

through. The Government have cancelled the promise of additional

money from 2018. Just cancelled it. What are they going to do about the

discretionary payments? We have got to have in my view, a public inquiry

that gets underneath what exactly happened, how could doctors continue

feeding this contaminated blood into sick people when they already knew

that people were becoming extremely ill with HIV and hepatitis C,

apparently because of the blood they had been given and so on and then it

goes on from there, governments not being completely honest about what

happened and giving guidance saying it is OK, this is risk-free and so

on. The saga has continued. Yes, for decades. Trisha on Facebook says, "I

lost my dad in 1998 through going contaminated with hoich and help tie

sis C. He was only 55. He found out his infected status through a

letter. A disgraceful way to be informed. There does need to be a

public inquiry. "Stacey says, "My husband is a co infected and was

told at the age of 18, that he would die. He's 47 now and each year he is

suffering." Abbey says, "I find it totally disgusting. So many people's

lives have been destroyed by this mistake by the NHS. An organisation

we're supposed to rely on and we haven't had a public inquiry 30

years later." We will see what happens and continue to report on

this. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mark, thank you for coming on

the programme. You're welcome. Still to come, a report from Amnesty

says the number of executions around We'll be speaking to someone

who administered the death penalty before turning

into a campaigner against it. The parents of a very sick baby boy

will find out later today whether a judge has decided

if the child's life support machine Eight-month-old Charlie Gard suffers

from an extremely rare muscle wasting condition

and severe brain damage. His family want to take him

to a hospital in America and have raised more than ?1.2 million

to cover the costs. But doctors say further treatment

is not in his best interest. The fact that they can't reach

agreement is why the case A judge will announce his decision

at 2pm this afternoon. We spoke to Charlie Gard's

mum and dad last month. He can do slight movements. He can

move his mouth and his hands and his fingers and eyes. He can't open them

fully, but he can still open his eyes and see us and he responds to

us. We don't feel he's in pain at all. We wouldn't say he's suffering,

you know. He's obviously not got the same life of another seven-month-old

baby, but you know we deserve, what we're asking for is something that

can make him betterment if we were going to court to either end care or

to leave him how he is, you know, we know that's not a life for the

long-term, but it's having something out there which can, you know,

improve him and give him a better quality of life and hopefully make

him better is the reason why we're still sitting here fighting now.

Halfs that like when you found out there was a really big fundamental

difference of opinion, Chris? Well, it's difficult. We feel like we've

been fighting for a long time. It seems like we've been fighting since

the day we found out Charlie was ill, you know. But at the end of the

day, we just want him to be begin the chance because you're never

going to find treatments or cures for these things. If you never try

anything, you know. These aren't, what we're asking to give him are

not poisons, they are naturally occurring compounds that me and you

can produce and unfortunately, he is deficient in them and he can't

produce them himself. So you know, there is no real known side-effects

to these medications. So I kind of think the whole time has been why

not try? We can talk now to Niki Cunningham

whose son Harry was born in 2012. He was starved of oxygen

and was left severely brain damaged. She had to make a decision

to turn her son's life support She is a member of the Institute of

Medical Ethics' Research Committee and is a lecturer in child law

at the University of Winchester. Nikki, tell us a bill bit about your

baby boy Harry and the condition he was in? So, Harry had a very normal

pregnancy. Everything was fine up until the point of delivery. Whilst

I was labouring, he suffered quite a heavy bleed and at the time they

thought that was my blood. Things sort of delayed and when he was

born, by Caesarean section he was really grey and lifeless and had

been starved of oxygen for so long that basically his brain had started

to shutdown and along with a number of his organs as well. So he was

taken off to the neo-natal unit to try and try any kind of treatment

that was available to see if there was anything they could do to

reverse the sort of brain damage that had happened.

How did you reach the decision to switch his life support off? Well,

so, in the 26 hours that he was alive, the doctors had tried so many

different things. They had been calling up different universities,

speaking to other specialists in this field and when they realise

that had actually everything wa they were trying was not improving his

condition at all, and all of the tests were coming back and showing

that actually instead of seeing improvements things were declining,

it sort of became apparent that there wasn't going to be any sort of

life expectancy for Harry and that if he was to carry on living then he

would literally just being sustained as he was and you know he was unable

to, he had cerebral palsy, he was blind, he was deaf, he was never

going to be able to eat or swallow his own fluids. He was never going

to be able to breathe by himself. The prognosis was very grim and when

my husband and I spoke about what we should do for Harry, we both agreed

that if the doctors came to us and said you know, "It's time to start

make ago decision about what you want to do" Then we would know that

was the time to start doing the right thing and the most loving and

caring thing for Harry and not for us. We wanted for him to be

comfortable and to feel love at all times and to be in control of his

passing rather than have him die on the equipment away from his parents.

We really wanted for him to, you know, have that moment of love and

we were able to let him die in my arms whilst giving him a cuddle so

that he was never, you know, left alone to die. That he would be, you

know, with his family and surrounded with love.

Incredibly difficult and heartbreaking decision. Let me bring

Emma Nottingham in. Charlie Gard's parents want to keep him alive. The

doctors say it is not in his best interests to go for further

treatment in the States. How on earth does a judge make this

decision. That What judge has to do a really, really difficult job here.

So what he has got to do is really try and remove himself from any of

the emotive angles of the case and look at all of the circumstances

that are before him. So he will look at the arguments that are being made

both by the medical professionals and by Charlie's parents and he will

then have to weigh up what he thinks is in Charlie's best interests which

is really, really difficult to do because there is an element of

subjectivity with that. What is in one child's best interests is not

necessarily going to be the same as what would be in another child's

best interests. So the judge is going to have to make that decision

because the doctors and the parents have not been able to come to an

agreement here. If the judge's decision goes against

Charlie's parents wishes, could they appeal? Potentially they could

appeal. I think that that's probably unlikely in this situation. However,

there is the potential that they could appeal the decision.

Charlie's parents have effectively pleaded with the judge to, "Give him

a chance." That is, you know, we're all human beings, even judges,

that's really hard when he has got to remain as objective as possible

and look at the evidence. It's unbelievably difficult. As a

judge he is going to have to act in a professional capacity but the

unique angle of this case and the tragedy that might be inevitable,

depending on his decision, is a real responsibility and the fact that

it's taken out of Charlie's parents hands and it's even out of the hands

of the medical professionals, it's in the hands of the judge, it's a

tough job he has to do. Nikki, who did you turn to for advice? We

listened to Harry's doctors actually because they had tried so many

different things and they explained to us that Harry's quality of life

wasn't going to be, he wasn't going to live a normal life at all and we

wanted for him surrounded with love and all of those things. Sorry, my

dog had -- my daughter has just come to join us. We wanted to make sure

that Harry was always going to be, have his best interests and we, the

doctors, they were the ones that you best, we really did go with their

opinion on that. And with July to introduce your daughter to us? This

is Florence, Florence is our baby that came after Harry, she's wary

special, and she understands all of Harry's story, she knows that this

is important. Thank you very much Florence and Nikki for coming on the

programme. We appreciated. Goodbye! Emma, thank you so much.

The human rights group, Amnesty International,

says there has been a sharp drop in the use of the death

BUT they estimate more people were put to death in China last year

than in the whole of the rest of the world.

It's an estimate because China classifies it as a state secret

For the first time America has fallen below the top 5 list

of countries which carry out the most executions BUT the state

of Arkansas is about to execute 7 people over the next 11 days before

a controversial drug goes out of date at the end of this month.

This next film looks at the number and methods

of executions around the world - you may not want young

Earlier we spoke to Frank Thompson a former

executioner from Oregon in the United States.

He told us what his job used to involve.

Immediately before the actual execution you have a team of

personnel who goad to the execution room and notify the individual that

it's time, sometimes no more than just that it said. Its time. -- who

go to. You escort the individual into the room, with them on the

Gurney and you have in most instances, what you call a tie-down

team that secures the individual to the Gurney to make them, for all

practical purposes, in mobile but you don't want to hurt anyone. Sorry

to interrupt, can I ask you what a Gurney is? It's like a hospital bed,

I guess that's the best I can describe. And execution Gurney... A

hospital bed with platforms extending on either side of the bed,

but the arms can't rest on and be secured by straps, it's not always a

Gurney. For many, many years there are weren't Gurney is but you have

modern contraptions, construction is now, that it's like a bed, and

adjustable bed, the industry is still referred to often times as the

Gurney. Once the inmate is tied down, what happens? You have a team

of individuals who are in most instances, trained to insert the

intravenous into a viable vein, in many instances both veins, in the

event that 1 of the things does not work well. And the officiating

warden, superintendent, after all the arrangements have been made,

after the inmate has been secured down and after the needles having

placed into the veins, a signal is given for the execution to begin.

And the lethal fluids begin flowing into the person whose demise is a

part of the protocol. You have done this twice. Yes. Can you tell us how

on each occasion the inmate to be had, reacted, in the minutes and

seconds counting down to their death? It sounds sort of insensitive

and cold-blooded, I guess. To describe the two that I witnessed as

being either book. And in large parts, the experiences I had, I had

two individuals who volunteered their execution and by volunteering,

I mean, these two individuals had gotten tired, weary of life on death

row and they asked to be executed. So there were not a lot of the amp

attentions and lashing and clawing as many people sometimes expect.

These were very corporative individuals who were almost just

short of very tranquil. And the two executions I was a part of, not

speaking of the emotion and pressures that might have been

involved, they went according to plan. In both. What is your few,

now, of what you did then? I supported the death penalty for

many, many years, in fact, I was asked as a part of my being

qualified to take the position as superintendent, whether or not I

could conduct an execution and am a product of civil rights days back in

the deep South, when civil rights workers were being murdered for

demonstrating to get their constitutional rights to attend

public facilities or get their voting rights. And there were people

in my community, these civil rights workers were murdered and there were

people in my community who felt that the perpetrators against these civil

rights workers deserved a just, social sanction. The murderers were

gruesome, as a child, as a young person, 13, 14, 15, I began

nurturing the idea that some fire on the continuum of justice, maybe the

death penalty had a place. As I became older and moved into law

enforcement, I accepted it, tolerated it, realising that it had

significant flaws as many other of the institutions of our country had

flaws but hopefully over time it would keep working at it, we would

get it right or get it to be, you know, a more just says. So I

never... Sorry to interrupt. What was it about the fact that you

witnessed two of these executions, you oversold, but contributed to you

changing your view on the death penalty? It wasn't by seeing the

executions itself that changed me. When I started, when I was in

Arkansas, there was an execution of a guy by the name of Ricky Ray

Rector who was mentally, severely mentally deficient. And is

internationally known about his execution. Governor Bill Clinton

came back to Arkansas to oversee the execution. While he was being

executed they could hear him complaining about them not being

able to find his fame, witnesses could hear him moaning, they could

hear him assisting them in finding the vein. This was so traumatic to 1

star person, that staff person resigned after that execution. I was

a warden in Arkansas when that happened, when I came to Oregon

which had not had an execution in 32 years, I had this vividly in my

mind, this happened in 1992. And when I was asked to conduct the 1st

execution in 1996, I had this gruesome incident from Arkansas in

the back of my mind. And my staff, I was really concerned about my staff.

And I realised, that I was training decent men and women into the act of

taking the life of a human being in the name of a public policy that

could not be shown to work. I had been trained to take a life under

very narrow circumstances. So taking someone's life was not a foreign

notion to me. But I do not believe in taking anyone's life under any

circumstance when there are reasonable alternatives and the

reasonable alternative is life without the possibility of parole.

Frank Thompson who used to carry out, excuse me, executions in the

United States. Let's talk to our next guest.

Kate Allen, director of Amnesty International,

who has released today's figures is with me.

How do you know who is in the top 5 and it comes to executions,

particularly when the country at the top, China, is so secret. China is

particularly secretive and any information about the use of the

death penalty in China is a state secret. But we monitor what is

happening, we are entered with people within China. There is a long

history of the use of the death penalty, so we are confident to say

that in China we are talking about thousands of people who are

executed. In 1 year? In 1 year. They are in the thousands, any for up to

10,000 in a year. And then the other four countries... What is due

monitor to get the figures? There are still use paper and media

coverage, there are organisations that we are in touch with, there is

a way of monitoring and understanding some of those numbers,

but to really be accurate about them, we would need the Chinese

authorities to stop treating this like a state secret and be open and

accountable for the numbers they are executing. Do you know some of the

reasons behind the thousands of executions? There are over 40

different crimes that attract the death penalty, the obvious ones, but

also, corruption, use of drugs, drug-related offences, a range of

issues that can attract the death penalty, an extraordinary array of

ways in which you can be sentenced to death. Also in the top 5, Iran,

Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, no longer at the United States in those

top few countries. You don't accept this but what can you do to try to

either reduce the numbers are persuaded country to change their

mind on this issue? We have persuaded countries to change their

mind, friendly started campaigning about the death penalty in the 70s

there were 16 countries come today it's 104. I feel and we all feel at

Amnesty International that progress is too slow but it's absolutely

progress and we are moving in that direction, if you take the 5

countries you mentioned, they are responsible for 90% of the

executions that take place in the world and we will continue to

campaign to see the end of the death penalty. It's good to see the United

States out of those 5, there were 20 executions last year in the States

but some of that is about the inability to access the lethal drugs

that they used to kill people with. So there's been a kind of chipping

away at the ways in which the death penalty is implemented. Let me ask

you finally about what is about to happen in Arkansas in the United

States. Over a period of 11 days, 8 executions are scheduled, in order

it would seem, not to waste a particular drug that will expire at

the end of April. Yes. Executions are being organised because of the

sell by date of the lethal injection that will be used. It's being -- and

it is shocking. Some people in Arkansas who will be, may well be

executed, were sentenced to death 20- 30 years ago, some are now

severely mentally ill, paranoid schizophrenic, other issues, it's

appalling to see this and we are campaigning hard to see whether we

can stop those executions. So what you see, there have been the use of

lethal injections where it has taken people two hours or more to die and

that's where we have been moving to stop the use of lethal injections

and why Arkansas is, it seems, determined to implement these

executions before that sell by date expires. Thank you.

Next this morning, further allegations of abuse carried out

by a leading barrister who ran Christian summer camps

John Smyth is accused of carrying out a series of brutal assaults

It's a story first broken by Channel 4 News, but now the BBC

has now been told that Smyth also recruited one of his victims

and asked him to administer further beating to his friends.

That pupil is now the head teacher of a prep school in Buckinghamshire.

This report from Fiona Lamdin contains some graphic content.

I think I was probably beaten about 3,000 times,

It was only when he hit me that I suddenly realised the full

22 young men brainwashed and then beaten in what

victims now describe as a religious cult.

John Smyth, a leading QC, infiltrated Britain's oldest

school, persuading teenage boys that his violent

I am John Smyth, the director of the Justice Alliance.

Andy was only 14, a pupil at Winchester College in 1975, when the

He remembers going back to John Smyth's former home.

In twos or threes, best friends, we would

go out to his house, we would have a proper Sunday roast,

we would play silly games in the garden.

The school food then was absolutely shocking, so this was like a home

In some ways it was more of a home away from home, we

were quite detached from our parents, they were not able to see

Less than two years later, he was accepting regular and violent

So John Smyth had every single bandage, dressing,

iodine, everything that had been invented, but even though

he had all that equipment, I call it paraphernalia, we were

Even with these dressings on, wearing these adult nappies.

John smyth was like a father figure to me.

If you had asked me at the time, I would have said I loved him like I

He made me a godfather to one of his children.

He brought me into his family in that way.

Why would I hit back against someone who has made me a

Who I already think of as a father figure?

And now do you think it was part of his plan?

Definitely. Wouldn't you?

As the years went by, these schoolboys became young men.

They moved on to university, but the beatings continued.

Now too physical for one man on his own, Smyth needed to recruit

a right-hand man from within the group.

He asked Simon Doggett, one of his victims, to start beating

One of their victims didn't want to speak on

camera but told us his story for the first time.

John Smyth beat me first, appallingly, with his usual

force, and then Simon Doggett took over while he watched.

I recall the brutality of his beating.

There was no discussion, no emotion, just a fit

Then it was over, the dressings were applied, we drove back

to Cambridge, me sitting on a rubber ring.

Simon came around and checked dressings,

The BBC has been handed nine hours of recordings left

unheard for 20 years, which revealed the full

On one occasion a victim was subjected to

800 lashes, which lasted over 12 hours.

I cannot remember, but it went on all day.

A decade after the beatings finished, three victims

In the afternoon I was asleep, then it started again.

John Smyth beat me for maybe 50 strokes, and

then he would be exhausted, and at that point Simon Doggett beat me

Andy remembers every last detail of the shed.

The strokes he gave me were probably the equivalent

I think even then, I sensed it was not my friend beating

me, that it was actually John Smyth beating me,

using my friend to carry out his abuse.

Simon Doggett is the headmaster of Caldicott Prep School in Bucks.

He has been in charge for nearly 20 years.

He has told us he is now critically ill and is unable to respond.

There is no suggestion that he has ever harmed any of his pupils.

But Simon Doggett was not the only one John Smyth tried to recruit.

He tried to persuade me to beat other people.

He was asking lots of people to beat other people.

He said, "Andy, this is talking about steps, going

from 30 beatings to 50 to 100, the next step is, you need

When John got tired, he motioned for Simon to come in, and

Simon came in without missing a beat.

Police tell us they are investigating, but John Smyth is

still a free man, living in South Africa, and Simon Doggett a

headmaster, now critically ill, yet to give an account of his past.

You can see more on that story on the Six O'Clock News

Now when it comes to customer relations this is clearly

A warning, you may find images of the way this United Airlines

The world's leading airline. Flyer friendly.

SCREAMING Every thought...

SCREAMING Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh

no! Every movement. Oh my god, what are

you doing? No!

Carefully planned, co-ordinated and synchronised. Oh my god, look at

what you're doing to him. Oh my god. Performing together with a single

united purpose. No, this is wrong. Look at what you're doing to him. Oh

my god. Oh my god. Good work. Way to go.

That's what makes the world's leading airline flyer-friendly.

I have to go home. I have to go home.

United Airlines has now apologised after that passenger was clearly

hurt while being dragged screaming from his seat on a flight from

This passenger on the flight spoke to the BBC on the

The guy that came from, I don't know who he was,

some airport authority of some sort, was very was calm about it.

Wasn't rude. Wasn't even forceful.

I think it was almost kind he was just there

to intimidate and say "Look, you need to come off",

There was another officer that came on and then another man who that

you have seen in the video, the one with the hat and the jeans,