25/05/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

Police investigating the Manchester Arena bomb attack

have stopped sharing information with US officials after leaks

UK investigators were outraged when photos appearing to show debris

from the attack appeared in the latest edition

How will this impact the investigation and wider

intelligence sharing between the UK and US?

And as more victims of the attack are named the mother

of Olivia Cambpell gave an emotional speech at a vigil in Bury.

Please stay together, don't let this beat any of us.

Please, don't let my daughter be a victim.

The Home Secretary has said that the Prevent anti-terror

programme needs boosting following the bombing,

which was carried out by a young British man.

But the strategy has been the subject of fierce criticism

from those who say it creates a them and us divide between Muslims

We talk to people on both sides of the debate.

The bombing has caused upset right across the country,

but how do those who have to investigate it and deal

Chief Superintendent John Sutherland spent years on the front line

of policing and will be talking about the toll dealing

Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.00 this morning.

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning,

General election campaigning resumes today and Ukip will be launching

their manifesto. We will be looking at that later in the programme.

BBC News has been told that the police have stopped sharing

information about the Manchester bombing with officials

in the United States, following a series of leaks thought

to have come from the American intelligence community.

Last night, the New York Times published photographs apparently

showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to conceal it.

Our correspondent Catrina Renton is in Manchester for us.

This is a significant developments, what can you tell us? We understand

Greater Manchester Police are furious about those photographs that

have been published apparently of the debris. The American media, the

name of Salman Abedi was leaked to the American media just 24 hours

after the attack and that irritated the investigation here also. But

this publication of the photographs, sensitive and confidential

information relates of course to the investigation, has led to them

ceasing sharing information from here with the Americans. Greater

Manchester Police have said they hope to resume the normal

intelligence relationship soon. But this is an extraordinary and

unprecedented move to stop the two-way relationship between America

and the UK. Apparently it has caused disbelief and astonishment across

the British government. Theresa May is expected to raise this with

Donald Trump later today at the Nato meeting in Brussels. There's is a

very fast-moving investigation. Eight people now in custody in

relation with this investigation. Nine arrests have been made, eight

in the Greater Manchester area, one in Warwickshire. One of those

arrested yesterday evening, a woman, has now been released. But eight

people remain in custody. There have been a series of raids and

controlled explosions to try to home in on this network to which Salman

Abedi appears to have been connected. His older brother is

still in custody. Also, the more leads this investigation gets, the

more work it creates for police officers here. So this is an

expanding investigation at the moment, rather than it appearing to

be more focused. Much more work for police officers and they will be

feeling absolute frustration at the leaking of those very sensitive

pictures that show the debris of the attack. Or are reported to show the

debris after the attack. Another thing of course, at 11 o'clock, a

minute's silence will be observed and we expect the Chief Constable of

Greater Manchester Police to come here to mark that, to show

solidarity with the people of Manchester. Thank you very much. We

will of course have coverage of the one minute's silence live at 11

o'clock. Now time for a summary

from the BBC Newsroom. Theresa May is to raise concerns

with Donald Trump after evidence from the Manchester Arena bombing

was apparently leaked to US media. UK officials were "furious"

when photos appearing to show debris from the attack appeared

in the New York Times. The Prime Minister is expected

to raise the issue of the leak with the US president when they meet

at a Nato summit later. Two more men have been

arrested in connection One was detained following searches

of an address in the Withington area of the city, while another

was arrested in a part of Greater Manchester

that was not disclosed. The new arrests bring

the total number of people The suspect's older brother is among

those in custody in Manchester. Two other members of his family have

have been detained in Libya. Monday's terror attack claim 22

victims. So far, 16 have been identified but police say they know

the names of all those killed. The latest are 17-year-old Chloe

Rutherford and her boyfriend Liam Curry, aged 19, both from South

Shields. Lisa Lees and Alison Howe had

gone to collect their In Royton in Oldham,

devastated friends have She was just the best

one out of us all. She was very selfless,

did everything for us. Everyone in Royton who knows

us, knows all of us. The loss of Alison,

without a shadow of the doubt, Since Monday's attack,

more names and photographs of the victims have been released,

heartbreaking stories of lives lost. Kelly Brewster was 32

and from Sheffield. She died shielding and saving her

11-year-old niece from the blast. Saffie Roussos was eight, quiet,

unassuming, with a creative flair according to her head teacher

at Tarleton Community Primary Saffie comes from a close,

loving family, and we can only He's seen here speaking

to the BBC in 2015. He was described as wonderful,

iconic and beautiful. His brother said his

family was heartbroken. Georgina Callander had been a fan

of Ariana Grande for years, She was 18 and studying

health and social care, planning a career committed

to helping others. John Atkinson from Bury

was 28, and also studied Friends described him

as one in a million, Michelle Kiss was married

with three young children. In a statement, her family said

they were devastated. They said they hoped to draw

from the courage and strength she showed in her life to get

through this extremely As a family, we're united,

we're standing strong. I ask her friends, strangers,

relatives, to do the same. Please, don't let my

daughter be a victim. Just some of the innocent lives,

cruelly ended so suddenly. Withers is on North of England

reporter, Fiona Trott. You are at one of the hospitals treating those

who were injured. Bring us up-to-date on how those people are

doing? We know 64 people are still being treated in hospital. 20 are in

a critical condition. Nine people are being treated at Manchester

Royal Infirmary. But we know that 12 casualties, under the age of 16 at

Manchester Children's Hospital Maxtor. As we heard from Tim,

families have been confirmed that more people have died in the

attacks. 17 have now been named, Chloe Rutherford who was 17 and her

boyfriend Liam Curry and 19 from South Shields. An inseparable young

couple. Their family launched a social media campaign to help find

them. They wanted to be together for ever and now they are, their family

said. Eileen McLeod, from Scotland. The family is devastated and words

cannot express how they feel. We have learned about more parents who

lost their lives who were waiting for their children after the

concert. One of them was on duty female police officer. She has not

yet been named and her husband is critically ill and their two

children are also injured. We are due to get an update from the trust

later this morning. Fiona Trott, thank you very much.

Ariana Grande's concerts at London's O2 Arena on Thursday

and Friday have been cancelled following the Manchester

A statement said the US singer's Dangerous Woman tour would be

It added that Grande, 23, wanted to pay "proper

"Our way of life has once again been threatened

Manchester United have dedicated their victory in last night's Europa

League final to the victims of the attack. Thousands of fans travelled

to Stockholm to watch the match, which was an emotional affair, on

and off the pitch. This is what's happened,

over there, we've come and given this performance,

this is for Manchester. Everybody in Manchester,

this is for us. It was very emotional because of

what happened in Manchester. It was showing people how

we are still united. A very emotional night,

to be honest with you. It shows that we can come together

as a city and a nation and show our spirit,

that we'll not be beaten like that. In other news, the Ukip

leader, Paul Nuttall, will unveil his party's manifesto

today, marking a return to campaigning

for the general election. Mr Nuttall said further delay

would let the terrorists win. He said Ukip will, in his words,

'identify the problem' in communities in a way that other

parties are unwilling to do. All the other parties

are resuming their national campaigns tomorrow -

but some local activities such as delivering leaflets

will begin again today. With us now is our Assistant

Political Editor Norman Smith What do expect from Ukip today. It

is a big day to pull fairly serious nosedive. Paul Nuttall will try to

answer questions by setting out the post Brexit agenda. He will try to

present Ukip as a proud, patriotically, willing to confront

issues he says of the parties will not face up to. Around immigration

and integration. We know on the integration agenda date are

suggesting policies like banning the burqa, ending the role of sharia

courts, putting a halt to further Islamic State schools being built.

And on immigration, a tougher line, suggesting there should be zero net

immigration into this country and a complete ban on all non-skills,

unskilled workers coming in. The question is, whether any of that

will be sufficient to win back those voters who appeared to be deserting

the party in droves, because they seem to be banking now on Theresa

May to deliver Brexit. Norman, thank you.

Researchers have warned that Conservative plans to offer every

primary school child in England a free breakfast could cost three

times more than the ?60 million the party has estimated.

Independent experts from Education Datalab say the Tory

figure is based on a scheme with a low take-up rate,

where food was donated and no staffing costs were included.

The Conservatives are standing by their estimate.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

In a moment we will be finding out more about the decision

by Greater Manchester Police to stop sharing intelligence with US

officials and what the likely impact of that decision will be.

It is unprecedented, so we will be talking much more about that.

First let's get some sport with Holly Hamilton.

Holly, an emotional night for Manchester United

but they still managed to win the Europa League.

It was always going to be an emotional event, given what happened

this week. The players walked onto the pitch with black bands. And

minute's silence in the ground. Then Paul Pogba scored in the 18th

minute. And then this... You can see what this means to the players and

the Jose Mourinho. It makes them the most decorated club in Europe and

Jose Mourinho made a managerial history. You could see him running

onto the pitch and celebrating. Afterwards he said the team had been

deeply affected by the events in Manchester this week. We just come

to do our job. We had the happiness we should bring with us. When you go

to these big matches, you go proud. We didn't, we just come to do our

job. The boys were fantastic because they block, they put a wall in front

of their eyes and they stay isolated from everything and we focused on

the match. Which we played really well. This puts Manchester United

back where they want to be, back in the Champions League. But perhaps

last night was not just about football, of course. How weather

fans reacting? You could tell the fans were subdued at the beginning

of the night. They weren't sure whether or not they were supposed to

be cheering and celebrating. Obviously given the events this

week. We have the Ajax fans who were singing. Manchester United fans

sitting down, not sure what they were supposed to be doing. It was

only when the match began and the players arrived and the minute's

silence the place but the fans started to come alive. The banner

branded with those words, Manchester, a city United, summed up

how those fans are feeling. It brought everyone together. Those

were incredible scenes and then a tweet from Manchester City,

obviously coming from Manchester, you will know people are in two

camps, and this was a night when both teams came together, which was

summarised by that tweet last night. This is a situation where football

can bring people together. That banner that was in the crowd last

night really summed up how people felt. There was just a perfect

example of a city, and how football really can bring people together in

a situation like this. Thank you very much, Holly.

Police investigating the Manchester Arena bomb attack

have stopped sharing information with US officials, after leaks

UK investigators were outraged when photos appearing to show debris

from the attack appeared in the latest edition

Our security correspondent Frank Gardner's here,

also Lee Doddridge, former officer at the National Counter Terrorism

And we are joined by Ben Owen, a former MI5 officer in Manchester.

Frank, is this completely unprecedented? No, it's not. The US

beltway around Washington is notoriously leaky, and likewise in

New York. It is always far easier to get wood should be closely held

sometimes almost classified information out of the US than it is

out of the UK, so the security is much better actually in London, in

Whitehall. And it's frustrating, because as a journalist, I will have

editors and the past saying why aren't you getting this stuff?

Because the US is leaky. In this particular case this is actually

really dangerous. This is an ongoing operation. Let's not beat around the

bush, they are hunting for a bomb factory, for a guy who has possibly

produced more devices like the one that was used in Manchester. They

are in a race against time to find that. The last thing they want is

the namely doubt so that people can be warned -- is the name leaked out

so that people can be warned and possibly scape. Now the whole

methodology has been laid out there and it is incredibly this respectful

to the families of the victims. Lee Doddridge, what impact did you think

this leak will have? For one, it is an unwanted distraction from the

enquiry. We need to be focused on who produced the result of their is

any more out there. We don't want the distraction of having these

issues with our American counterparts. When we share

intelligence through the five eyes network, we are the originators and

owners of that intelligence and it is their to help them, not for them

to abuse and disseminate from there. As Frank quite rightly said, it is a

very leaky system in America and I think it is the right decision to

stop any sharing of intelligence. Ben Owen, who gets to make the call

on what intelligence is shared, because it sounds like this decision

has come directly from Greater Manchester Police? You might think a

decision would be made at a higher level. It is eyes looked at on a

case-by-case basis, but if the intelligence is key to an

investigation -- it has always looked on, that keeps citizens of

the five eyes community and are sometimes wider safe, that

information will be shared. I can think in 2006, the airline plot,

operation overt, which was the investigation into trying to thwart

the net of East London networking blowing up aircraft. This was a

British investigation. We were sharing lots and lots of key

information with the American intelligence agencies. They wanted

to finish this investigation, arrest everyone, because it was over US

airspace where the attack was planned for. The British

intelligence services to not want to, they wanted to insure we rounded

everyone up, make sure we did not miss any individual in this key

network, which could have been broader. They took it upon

themselves to arrest them overseas, which forced the British law

enforcement services into arresting this network early, the risk being

that we didn't identify every key individual. Lee Doddridge, what

would the USB of sharing the information of what has been

happening in Manchester with the US security services? That is a very

good question because there is obviously pertinent parts of the

investigation they would want to share. If we are trying to establish

if there is a wider network, by sharing certain parts of

information, it may well link into what the US authorities already

have. When we look at all makers, when they put devices together, it

is almost like they leave their own individual fingerprint on it, they

all have their own quirky ways of designing and using certain

materials. So by sharing the intelligence they may well feedback

to us and say we have found a similar device, baby at another

crime scene in Syria, so we share that. It widens and greatly enhances

our chance of finding more information. Frank. Donald Trump is

in Brussels, we can see pictures of him attending a Nato meeting today.

The government has made clear, Theresa May will be having a

conversation with Donald Trump. The indications are that this leak

hasn't come from the White House, though, it has come from US

intelligence sources. That's correct, the White House is

effectively travelling with Donald Trump, they are with him, in a

suitcase, as it were. This has come from the enormous

multibillion-dollar US intelligence community, and they have 16

different agencies. Homeland security, DIA, CIA, FBI, you name

it. It could be any one of those agencies that has leaked this. You

said they are leaky, why, what with the incentive be in leaking these?

These are powers, they have pals in the media, there is something called

the Bay -- the beltway that goes around Washington, people come out

and have dinner with each other and they are not as cautious as

officials are in the UK. There is a whole community of part-time spooks

or intelligence people in the States who are on contract to perhaps

finish their careers but stay on on contract, and they talk to

journalists more than people do over here. The reason quite apart from

the present moment that this particular manhunt, bomb hunt, the

reason why this is really kind of risky is that this is going down a

slippery slope. Because if Greater Manchester Police is understandably

saying we don't trust you any more, because we give you intelligence and

you go and splash it all over the media, then the US is quite likely

to do the same, or they could do the same. And Britain needs American

intelligence, not on this particular investigation but the next one

coming down the line. To be fair, has it happened in the other

direction, has there been a leak here? Yes, there have been. Whether

US intelligence communities expressed their extreme displeasure

that something has got out into the media that they have shared. Like I

remember what it was but there was something a few years back. So it

works both ways. Remember, US intelligence gathering capacity is

many times bigger than any other country in the world, including the

UK. The NSA for a start, national security agency, has petabytes of

capability to hoover up stuff that Britain couldn't match. Ben Owen, so

how to fix this issue of leaky nurse, because it is clearly

critical it is fixed. Yes, it is critical, as is the threat state at

the moment. We really need to go back to the drawing board with this,

this is happening all too often. As Frank says, it works both ways as

well, so we both need to get better at this. What we can't continue

doing with the threat we all face today, at UK and US and broader, we

cannot continue doing this. This information was critical to keep

sensitive, in the network investigation to identify key

individuals. It cannot continue. We need to go back to the drawing board

and have some very frank conversations across the pond, and

try and get this fixed as soon as possible. Lee Doddridge, what do you

think the wider impact of all this could be? I think it could be very

wired, if we don't get a hold on the situation quite quickly. As everyone

has said, we need a review on how we share the intelligence, but also how

we secure the intelligence once it has been shared. For a number of

years it has taken on trust as well, but we do have caveats, and we need

to go back to the drawing board, and look at how we can move forward from

this. And we will have other investigations, unfortunately that

is just the case. We need to make sure that when we do share

intelligence, we have to keep doing that, that there are more controls

around it. Ben, earlier in the week, we heard initially actually from

France about some of the Abedi movements, the revelation that he

had been travelling to Syria. That is an indication of where and how

the intelligence sharing is valuable and the impact it can have.

Absolutely correct. The intelligence sharing that the US and the UK have

is crucial, we can't cut it off, that would be devastating for the

UK, for our interests. We have to keep that flow of intelligence

going. It is absolutely key. Syria, Libya and elsewhere, a lot of the

volume of that will come from CIA and NSA. So we need to keep this

going. We need to be honest with ourselves, and agree and accept that

the continuation of intelligence sharing has to continue. But as Lee

said, we need to progress -- look at how we share that information and

secure it when it is shared. That is the key, not the broader

intelligence sharing scenario. For now, Greater Manchester Police

saying they won't share, how do you envisage that proceeding from here?

Will all the information just be kept within the force? I think that

maybe today the way Manchester police want to move forward, but I

think also then the wider agencies, intelligence services within the UK,

will probably assist Greater Manchester, physically hold too much

back it could hinder the enquiry itself. So maybe the snap decision

to do that, but we need to look at it and need to get these channels

open as soon as possible because there may well be a piece of

intelligence that the US has too unable that we have everyone here in

the UK accounted for. Credit already have damaged the investigation? I

don't want to speculate at the moment. We won't know until the

enquiry moves forward. Thank you very much, Lee Doddridge, Ben Owen

and Frank Gardner in the studio, and we will be talking to you again

Frank, about Abedi and his background. A lot more information

coming on about him and his wider contacts. Also coming up, we will be

examining the government's Prevent anti-terrorism programme yet again

under scrutiny. Is it working, does it need beefing up or do we need a

drastic rethink? Let us the thoughts on that. Also a big night for the

club at an even bigger nights of the city. That is what's David Beckham

had to say about Manchester United's victory in the route the league last

night. We will talk to one fan who was there.

Now to Anita for a summary from the BBC Newsroom.

BBC News has been told that the UK has stopped sharing information with

the United States. Last night the New York Times published photographs

apparently showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to

conceal it. Greater Manchester Police hope to resume normal

intelligence sharing relationship soon.

Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump after the evidence

from the Manchester bombing was leaked to the US media. President

Trump is in Nato today where he has been meeting Donald Tusk. The Prime

Minister is expected to raise the issue with him at the summit later.

Meanwhile... Two more men have been

arrested in connection One was detained following searches

of an address in the Withington area of the city, while another

was arrested in a part of Greater Manchester

that was not disclosed. The new arrests bring

the total number of people The suspect's older brother is among

those in custody in Manchester. Two other members of his family have

have been detained in Libya. Ariana Grande's concerts

at London's O2 Arena on Thursday and Friday have been cancelled

following the Manchester A statement said the US singer's

Dangerous Woman tour would be It added that Grande

wanted to pay "proper "Our way of life has once

again been threatened Manchester United have

dedicated their victory in last night's Europa League final

to the victims of the Thousands of fans travelled

to Stockholm to watch the match, which was an emotional affair,

on and off the pitch. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.00 Now let's join Holly for the sport.

Manchester United beat Ajax 2-0 to win the final of the Europa League.

It was enough Jose Mourinho's side as they ensure their qualification

for the Champions League. Manchester was a city United last night. Fans

came together to offer support for the families who lost loved ones in

the atrocity at the Manchester Arena on Monday evening. England's

cricketers have begun their preparation for the ICC Trophy with

victory over South Africa at Headingley in the first of 31-day

matches. Jenson Button says he is the luckiest guy to be back in

Formula 1 for the Monaco Grand Prix. The former world champion replaces

Fernando Alonso at McLaren whilst the Spaniard races the Indy 500. I

will have more at ten o'clock. We've been learning more

about the bomber Salman Abedi. It's known he was born

here in Manchester to Libyan parents who came to Britain as refugees

from the regime of Colonel Gaddafi. Abedi was for a time a student

at the University of Salford. It's also known that he'd travelled

to Libya and returned a few His father and a younger brother

have now been detained in Libya. Speaking just before

he was detained, Salman Abeidi's father Ramadan gave an interview

in Libya defending Our security correspondent

Frank Gardner is here now. Let's pick up on that point, his

father and younger brother arrested in Libya, what can you tell us about

the arrest? That was Ramadan Abedi, the father of Salman Abedi, and he

is in typical denial. We saw that from the father of the Nice truck

driver who mowed down people in France last year. No parent wants to

admit their son is a mass murderer, but that is the situation here.

Salman Abedi is a mass murderer. Was, he is dead. That is his father,

saying no, he didn't do it, this is the security services persecuting

the Libyan community in Manchester. He has been arrested by a

counterterrorist unit of a militia in Libya that is part of the UN

recognised government. Libya is a mess and it hasn't got one sovereign

government in charge of the country. It is a lot of different fiefdoms

who don't recognise each other. The place is awash with weapons,

explosives and ammunition. It is a basket case, unfortunately. It is

sad because it should be a success story. There is a big expat Libyan

community who has grown up in Manchester. Someone to fight in

Libya in 2011, not exactly with the blessing of the British government,

but they didn't object because they were overthrowing Colonel Gaddafi.

Most of them came back and nothing happened. But a small number did go

to Syria and there is a recruiter allegedly linked to this family who

was involved with sending Libyan Mancunians to Syria. What is

emerging about the network potentially around Salman Abedi?

They are using the word network. I think it is too grand a word. It may

only be won or two people. But early on in the investigation, they

reached the conclusion that the sophistication of the device meant

it could not have just been done by one person. Whoever did this new

about chemical compounds, how did they acquired the materials without

raising suspicion? What are we in the media didn't know, but I imagine

the forensic people, at the government laboratories, will

probably know whether this explosive is locally sourced, home-made, some

kind of organic phosphate or military grade explosive that has

come from overseas or stolen from a military barracks in somewhere like

Libya. We don't know yet. Thank you very much. I just want to say the

18th victim has been named. It is Wendy who was 50. The latest name we

have been told is Wendy Fawell. Well, since it was revealed that

Monday night's attacker - Salman Abedi - was born and bred

in Manchester, it's raised familiar questions about home-grown terrorism

and what can be done to stop it. The government's existing

strategy called Prevent - which aims to stop vulnerable people

from being radicalised - We'll be discussing this in a moment

but first our report Catrin Nye can remind us

what the prevent strategy is. Well, the strategy is one part of

the government counterterrorism strategy. After the London bombings,

there was extra funding, tens of millions of pounds over a number of

years. This is the home of this definition, to stop people becoming

terrorists or supporting terrorism. It is a pre-emptive part of the

counterterrorism strategy, trying to stop people causing harm before they

have done it. That why it is difficult to measure. It helps

explain why it can be controversial. In practice, what does it involve?

There are lots of parts of Prevent. Some things are like workshops in

schools, going and talking to children about extremism, extremist

groups and teaching them critical thinking skills, so teaching them

how to cope if they are confronted with those extremist ideas. I have a

video which shows a Prevent session in a school in Leicester. This was

filmed before what happened in Manchester.

We have tried every other way. This is important, 44 civilians. I was

frightened that if I continued with this particular group, I would be

raising a monster. They see themselves as part of an army. It

just so happened that extreme group targeted them just at the right

moment in their life and they left. It can happen to anybody. At the

more severe end, you have channel, 121 mentoring. Perhaps they have

joined a group, or thinking of travelling to Syria. Also, in 2015,

it became a statutory duty for schools and other places where young

people are educated to prevent people from being drawn into

terrorism, Prevent became a duty. Why is it so controversial? Prevent

has been controversial since the very start. One of the reasons is,

it has been accused of being a spying programme. Some teachers have

complained, because they have to keep an eye on the views of their

pupils, students, that means they are doing the work of the security

services. Also it can limit free speech. Some academic teachers again

at other people argue in a place like a school or university, young

people should be able to say things that are controversial and they

should be able to criticise the government and foreign policy

without worrying they might be reported to Prevent. The other

criticism is about stigmatising communities. A lot of the effort and

money behind Prevent is directed at the Muslim community and that has

been accused of stigmatising Muslims and also alienating people. What our

politicians saying? We do have an election coming up and the parties

don't agree. Labour want to review Prevent, whether it is effective or

alienating people. The Conservatives have said they want to uplift

Prevent, put more money into it because they argue it is working.

OK, thank you very much. Lots to talk about.

Well, we can now speak to Hifsa Iqbal in Stoke.

Hifsa works for the Prevent programme, going into colleges

and universities around the West Midlands.

Khalid Mahmood joins us from Birmingham, where he's been

an MP for many years and is standing again for the Labour Party.

Zubeda Limbada is the director of Connect Futures, that's

an independent think tank which works alongside police

forces and communities to tackle radicalisation,

she joins us via webcam from Birmingham.

And in the studio we have Miqdaad Versi from the Muslim

Thank you for joining us. You believe Prevent is flawed, why is

that? I think the views of many people in broader society have

demonstrated they have serious concerns about Prevent. We have

talked about there being serious and long lasting damage to young

children as a result of Prevent, a view shared by the Conservative

Party. There is a broad understanding that when it comes to

young children in school, the way many of them feel stigmatised,

particularly Muslim students, not being able to do what they will

normally do, their parents are telling them not to say certain

things in school. It stigmatising them from a young age and treats

them as a potential security threat. You are saying some people could be

radicalised as a result of Prevent? The junk committee for human rights

has said it risks being counter-productive. Do you think it

is counter-productive? I think there is a risk of it, no one can know for

sure. Nobody wants to create unnecessary damage. What matters is

that people do feel alienated. There are many different people across

different societies, different human rights groups, who are concerned. We

need engagement from the government in Muslim communities, rather than

talking at them, but talking to them. You do go into schools and

colleges, what is your view when you hear this being said that it is

counter-productive, potentially? Good morning. I work specifically

with colleges and universities in the West Midlands region. As your

reporter said initially, Prevent is about safeguarding, it is about

protecting young people who are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons

and could potentially be radicalised and taken down the route of

supporting terrorism or committing terrorist atrocities themselves. I

am concerned about what your guest says because my experience working

in colleges and universities is different. Some of the reports that

have come out in relation to Prevent and how people feel, some of the

cases that have been quoted have had nothing to do with Prevent. They

have been specific issues around safeguarding.

Sorry to interrupt that I want to get down to the nitty-gritty of what

you do and whether you have come across people who have changed their

views, who were potentially going down one path and you have seen a

change of perspective as a result of the common sessions you have been

having? The common sessions I have specifically within the colleges and

universities tend to be on the whole with staff. It is about having an

understanding, sorry my earpiece is falling out, about having an

understanding of what these vulnerabilities are. It is not my

job to go into the colleges all universities to sport or pick up

these vulnerabilities, because I don't know the young people, I don't

know the situation, or where necessarily these individuals are

coming from. My job is specifically about explaining vulnerabilities and

how the universities and colleges need to understand those

vulnerabilities and then support the individuals. You work alongside

police forces and communities to tackle radicalisation, what do you

believe is the best way? I think we have to take a middle ground

approach. McDowell has rightly expressed concerns, but that same

time as an organisation we took a protracted approach, we have been

working with both students and staff in schools about how we strengthen

critical thinking, how we get young people to engage around topics of

extremism and radicalisation, giving them practical skills. Who do they

talk to in schools, do they talk to their teachers, how do they address

online radicalisation, so I think with Prevent we need to take that

middle ground of understanding where kids concerns are. We have to

understand why people in the Muslim community are feeling concerned but

at the same time when we go into schools and communities, we know

that there is a problem of far right radicalisation. We know that the

narratives of each side, Islamist and far right groups, feed into one

another. People want the practical aspects and politicians need to

engage effectively because I do think that although the Prevent

strategy has been in place and since 2007, the grassroots engagement,

both needing gauging with as well. So when we go into schools,

assemblies are really important as a way of communicating, and we provide

that training. Khaled Mahmud, you are a politician, there are divided

views among politicians about whether Prevent needs to be

completely rethought or whether new resources need to go into it. Do you

believe that terror attacks have been prevented as a result of

Prevent, people have stopped going down a particular path because of

the intervention of Prevent. There are certain groups in Birmingham who

have said they have been able to pull people back from taking a much

more radical route by the support given to them through the prevent

programme they have run. So there is evidence -based issues in Birmingham

that have managed to do that. I think the real issue here is

twofold, it and education, where at the moment we have a duty in terms

of child protection. If it is child abuse or a CSE case going on, then

the colleges, universities and the schools are perfectly legitimate to

look at that. If the same thing applies to somebody being

radicalised, then people are saying no, they shouldn't be doing that.

This is a bit of a red herring here. This is a purely child protection

issue and in that respect I don't think it should be a problem. Where

the issue also lies about the general community-based Prevent.

There are issues I said all along we need to address. But the Muslim

council of Britain needs to come out and say if they are unhappy with

this, what will we do? We need people to come out and say if they

are not happy with these sort of issues, let's change this and do

something about it. There are changes that need to be made to

Prevent but at the same time this is the process we have got. If we don't

engage with it there are summiteers who can do things that we don't

like. If you don't like what is happening at the moment, come

forward and say to the politicians, say to us, there are issues we want

to engage in, I think at the moment Prevent deals with much smaller

organisations, what we need to do is engage with the mainstream of the

Muslim community to deal with that. I think there should be helpline set

up both in the way that young people need to approach and have access to

those people, a helpline. Something we have in Birmingham with the

Muslims in the UK network. That headline which is about domestic

violence and other issues that they want to discuss with people, a lot

of issues of radicalisation comes through that as well. One thing

feeds into another. I want to pick up on all those points with you but

I just want to pause for a moment from this conversation just to bring

the very sad news that another victim of the Manchester bombing has

just been named. It is a Cheshire police officer, Helene MacGyver. Her

family have her family have said she would want

us to carry on regardless and not be frightened. A brief statement has

been put out saying that Elaine was a much loved daughter, sister and

colleague. She was everyone's friend, thoughtful beyond belief

with an effervescent and outgoing personality. She would have been

devastated by the injuries sustained by her partner, Paul. Elaine loved

life and had a major love of music. Despite what has happened to her she

would want us all to carry on regardless and not be frightened.

Instead she regularly barged us all to rise up against it. We know she

will live in our hearts forever. So Elaine McIver has been named in the

past few moments, the 19th victim to be named of the Manchester attack.

Just a few moments ago, we also brought you the details of the 18th

victim to be named today. Wendy Fall from Otley. She is 50 and was name

just a few moments ago. I think we can now bring you a picture of

Elaine McIver. There she is. Cheshire police officer, killed in

the Manchester bombing. Her family have said despite what has happened

to her, she would want us all to carry on regardless and not be

frightened by fear tactics. Instead she regularly urged us all to rise

up against it. We will miss her beyond belief, but she will live in

our hearts forever. So, 19 victims of the attacks have been name, the

absolute priority has been for the police and those around them

supporting them. Let me come back to you, Khalid Mahmud, you are talking

about the responsibility of communities. It is often said it is

not policing that defeat terrorism, it is communities. When we look at

what happened here, and we now know that Salman Abedi was actually

reported. A hotline was called to say that there were concerns around

his behaviour. He had said he was supportive of terrorism, he didn't

see anything wrong with being a suicide bomber. That was exactly the

right thing. Yes, first of all, my condolences to Elaine and my -- to

Elaine and her family. They have been significant security failures

in relation to this particular individual and all of those need to

be looked at. That needs to be addressed as well very strongly once

an investigation is out of the way and we ask real questions as to why

that was allowed to happen and why those issues have not been picked up

about the security forces. So that is a real issue. But what we'll so

have to look at clearly going forward is what role all of us

plays, the community plays, and you have had Europe or the early-onset

thing about the victimisation of the Muslim community. -- you have had

your reporter saying about the issue of the victimisation of the Muslim

community. There are a small number of people who are being radicalised

to the degree that they are prepared to take other people's lives. In my

constituency, sorry, in Birmingham, we looked at that area where there

were Afro-Caribbean riots from 1985 onwards. We did not stigmatise them,

with the Port of them, to the point now when the last time these issues

-- we supported them. Those are the things we can change. What you have

to do is acknowledge there is an issue, the community has to deal

with it and then move forward. Without doing that you can't move

forward. Mick Dowd, what is the most positive way of moving forward? One

of the biggest things is about engagement. We need to have cross

community engagement on this issue. At the moment, David Anderson, one

of the most senior people on this topic on me was talking about how it

is extraordinary that the government is not doing more organisation with

the Muslim councillor Britain. He found it quite unusual. I think that

is really what we need now, we need to get trust. Throughout the

Prevent? It is an independent review, if certain things are going

well, the Muslim community should see we are going well, and they are

likely to buy into it if they have confidence and there is an

independent scrutiny of this and their views are being heard and

understood. I think it is all about trust here. We all want to keep

ourselves safe and secure. That works two ways, the trust has to be

both sides and they need to work with each other to do that, not

finger-pointing age side. And you can see when the government

introduces legislation, we put forward a response to that with

ideas of how to move forward. We reached at quite extensively on a

range of different topics. We raised a number of concerns. All of those

things, we are truly are in gauging as much as possible. Thank you all.

Manchester United have dedicated last night's Europa League victory

to the victims of Monday's attack in the city.

The club beat Ajax 2-0 in Stockholm, and afterwards tweeted a photo

of a banner reading: "Manchester - A City United."

Players and fans observed a minutes silence at the start of the match

in tribute to those who killed -- with both teams also

Thousands of supporters travelled to Sweden to watch the match --

After the game former United player David Beckham tweeted this.

Thousands of supporters travelled to Sweden to watch the match but let's

first here's some reaction from former United player, Phil Neville.

I think the emotion in the stadium was fantastic. We are all

emotionally drained. Our thoughts are still with those people who lost

their lives, that is to our hearts and prayers are with the night but

it has been a wonderful night for Manchester United. I think tonight

is a night that will mean so much, and for Manchester United, we have

seen real Northern Soul tonight. STUDIO:

Let's talk now to Jo, a Man Utd fan who was at last

Thank you for joining us, what was the atmosphere like for you? The

atmosphere was absolutely incredible last night. As people have said, a

really bittersweet night in Stockholm. The atmosphere throughout

the day was amazing the fans were united in their solidarity with us,

in what they were saying about the atrocity on Monday night in

Manchester. A couple even said we hope United win. Within the stadium

it was incredible. It is a football match, clearly it has a residence

for many beyond football. Going to a football match immediately after

what happened, how did you feel about that? Being honest with you, I

found it very difficult. I felt like everybody from this city and more

widely, very emotional after what happened. I was still awake and up

when the news broke late on Monday night. I didn't really sleep, and

then I was finding myself getting up at five o'clock in the morning to

pack and come to Stockholm, and I did think twice about coming and I

knew that the atmosphere would be very difficult. But equally, the

coming together has meant something, and the bonding of all of the fans

over what has happened. Thank you for joining us, Jo.

All the latest reaction and news coming up of you in just a few

moments, but now the weather with Simon.

We have had the warmest day of the year so far yesterday, 26.6 the

green Celsius was recorded yesterday. Today will be even

warmer, if not hotter across many parts of the UK. Many of us woke up

to some sunshine just like this in Milton Keynes. But it is not

everywhere. We have some fog around the Irish Sea coasts. Parts of

Northern Ireland, South and West Scotland. Here in Welshpool, the

sheep enjoying that fog of the moment but the fault will gradually

clear away. We are looking at some sunshine -- the fog will gradually

clear away. It will be very warm if not hot as we go through the

afternoon. A bit of cloud will develop here and there. Also that

fog gradually clearing. Much more sunshine across Scotland compared

yesterday. This is where we might see some of the highest temperatures

today. 28 or 29 Celsius. Even the central belt, temperatures widely

into the mid-20s. Sunshine from Northern Ireland, eventually in the

Isle of Man and elsewhere we will see some fair weather cloud building

up. Look at those temperatures, 25 to 28 Celsius across the south-east

of England during this afternoon. It is worth bearing in mind that the UV

levels are high, if not very high, across parts of the South West

during this afternoon, so factor that in a few are out and about. For

the rest of this evening, little change, there will be some clear

skies taking us into Friday morning. It will be another warm and humid

night, temperatures now lower really than about 14, 16, 17 Celsius into

Friday morning. So a very warm start the day and actually on Friday it

will be a hot day compared to today. More sunshine. Not much in a way of

fog tomorrow, so we get away with a sunny start around the Irish Sea

coasts but those temperatures really starting to build up tomorrow. 28,

29, perhaps touching 30 in western Scotland. Elsewhere as well, the

temperatures in the mid to high 20s. As they go into Saturday, a hot and

humid start, look at this weather front coming in from the West. As it

hits that hot air, we are going to seize and heavy showers, some

thunderstorms as well. Those thunderstorms working their way

further north and east. Still quite hot in central and eastern areas,

25, 28, but fresher as though showers pushed through. Going into

Sunday and bank Oliver, hot and humid to start. There will be a

thundery breakdown on Saturday. Fresher conditions will follow.

Hello it's 10 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling.

Two more victims have been named this morning, a Elaine McIver, an

off-duty police officer and 50-year-old Wendy Fawell from Otley.

You saw the best of Greater Manchester yesterday. I was in the

hospitals last night and I was hearing stories about porters,

cleaners, nurses, surgeons came in to help out. The public where

bringing in food and the public did pull together and we should take a

great deal of pride in that. We will speak to a woman who started

a fundraising campaign and a nurse who helped the victims in the middle

of the night. Chief Superintendent John Sutherland has spent years in

front-line policing and he will talk about coping with the after effect.

After a pause in political campaigning following the bomb

attack on Monday, Ukip are launching their manifesto

Our political guru Norman Smith will be live from the launch for us.

Here is Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

BBC News has been told that the police have stopped sharing

information about the Manchester bombing with officials

in the United States, following a series of leaks thought

to have come from the American intelligence community.

Last night, the New York Times published photographs apparently

showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to conceal it.

Our correspondent Catrina Renton is in Manchester for us.

The UK and the US often share intelligence on these kind of

matters. To have stopped doing this is significant and shows just how

angry British officials are. Officers say they hope to resume

normal intelligence religion ship soon. Let me give you the latest on

the investigation. Eight men now are in custody in relation to the

attack. This is a fast moving investigation with new lines of

investigation coming forward. Officers have a lot of work to do to

focus in on that network that Salman Abedi is believed to have been in.

And of course the minute's silence due to be observed at 11 o'clock,

with chief comes to Ian Hopkins leading the tribute to the people of

Manchester here. Thank you very much.

Two more who died in the attack have been named. Elaine McIver, who was a

police officer in the Cheshire police force, was killed in the

bombing and 50-year-old Wendy Fawell also died in the attack.

Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump after evidence

from the Manchester Arena bombing was apparently leaked to US media.

President Trump is in Brussels today, ahead of a NATO summit,

where he's been meeting European Council leader Donald Tusk.

The prime minister is expected to raise the issue of the leak

There is a lot of anger in the UK about this leaking of intelligence.

Yes there is, it is something Theresa May will be expressing the

Donald Trump we understand when they meet at Nato headquarters this

afternoon. The name of the suicide bomber was released. The pictures

from the attack scene were released, all from American sources,

information that had come from UK police. We know that UK police in

Manchester say they are not sharing any more information. That is not

something that has come from the government itself, and the wider

intelligence sharing doesn't seem to be affected. But the concern is this

could be having an impact, the leaks could well be having an impact,

particularly on the police investigation in Manchester, efforts

to investigate the wider network and prevent any other possible plots

that might be under way. So that is something Theresa May will raise

with Donald Trump. At the same time, she and he, I'm sure, will be

joining this call for Nato as a whole to join the anti-ISAs

coalition, and that is something we should see Nato leaders together

sign up to this afternoon, the organisation joining in the

anti-ISAs efforts. Not in any way in any sort of combat efforts in Syria

but providing support, logistics, training to Iraqi forces, that sort

of thing. Damien Grammaticas in Brussels.

Two more men have been arrested in connection

One was detained following searches of an address in the Withington area

of the city, while another was arrested in a part

of Greater Manchester that was not disclosed.

The new arrests bring the total number of people

The suspect's older brother is among those in custody in Manchester.

Two other members of his family have have been detained in Libya.

Ariana Grande's concerts at London's O2 Arena on Thursday

and Friday have been cancelled following the Manchester

A statement said the US singer's Dangerous Woman tour would be

It added that Grande, 23, wanted to pay "proper

"Our way of life has once again been threatened

Manchester United have dedicated their victory in last

night's Europa League final to the victims of

Thousands of fans travelled to Stockholm to watch the match,

which was a highly emotional affair on and off the pitch.

Migration to Britain fell significantly last

Net long-term international migration to the UK was estimated

to be 248,000 in 2016, a fall of 84,000 compared to 2015.

The office for National statistics said the change was driven by both a

rise in the number of people leaving the country, mainly EU citizens, and

a fall in the number of people arriving in Britain. Despite the

fall, net migration is still more than double the government as Matt

Targett. Just want to bring you this, some of

your comments on Prevent. Lynn says having been a teacher in education

and having to implement the strategy, this needs to come mainly

from the Muslim community as they need to take much

also if radicalised people go out to the likes of Syria and Libya, their

British passports should be removed to prevent re-entry into this

country. Refugees and immigrants should also be thoroughly vetted

when entering the country. Rory on Facebook says Prevent is pathetic.

If we really want to help prevent terrorism, let's than the burqa and

face veils. Extreme socio economic conditions are what drive people to

extremism, we need a fairer society to deal with it.

A victory for Manchester United who are this morning celebrating a 2-0

victory over Ajax in the Europa League last night. There was a

minute's silence just before that game started, as a mark of respect

for those who lost their lives in the attack. Paul Pogba gave United

the lead within the first 20 minutes. Henrik Mkhitaryan added the

second after the break. It means that United qualify for next

season's Champions League. Jose Mourinho pay tribute to his players

for the way they handled at under such difficult circumstances. We

just came to do our job, we came without the happiness that we should

bring with us, because when you come for these big matches, you go have

become you go proud. And we didn't. We just came to do our job. And the

boys were fantastic, because they blocked, they put a wall in front of

their eyes, and they stayed isolated from everything, and they focused on

the football match, which I think we played really, really well. The

cricket now. beat South Africa by 72 runs in the

first one-day international at Headingley. They are ranked number

one in one-day cricket but could not stop England reaching a total of

331-64 stop Captain Eoin Morgan scored a century. South Africa

started surely in reply but then collapsed and they were all out for

just 267. Chris Woakes picked up four wickets. The series continues

in Southampton on Saturday. A pretty good day at the office for us.

Playing against an extremely strong South Africa team, putting in an

all-round performance that I thought was brilliant. Trying to do the

basics well. First practice is well underway at the Monaco Grand Prix.

The 2009 world champion Jenson Button says he feels no pressure,

ahead of his one-off return to Formula 1. Button retired at the end

of last season but is racing for McLaren in place of Fernando Alonso.

If you can come back for one race, Monaco is the race. I am very

excited, to drive a new car because it is very different to what I have

been driving, but also to race in Monaco, the most prestigious Grand

Prix and the most glamorous as well. The Frenchman Pierre Rowland ended a

two-year wait for victory by winning the 17th stage of the Giro d'Italia.

It was the 30-year-old's first triumph. His team's first grand tour

stage for two years. The race leader Tom Dumoulin and retains a 31 second

overall lead. Written's Adam Yates was 30th and is 11 overall -- Great

Britain's Adam Yates. I will have more in the next hour.

Ukip leader Paul Nuttall will unveil his party's manifesto. This is

further delay will let the terrorists win. We will go live to

Paul Nuttall, where he will be outlining the manifesto. Norman

Smith, there had been a pause in the campaigning, will there be a change

in tone when it resumes today, resuming with the Ukip manifesto? I

think they're almost certainly will be, maybe a bit more subdued, but

this is a big moment for Ukip because they have been on a bit of a

nosedive really since the Brexit result, since the departure of Nigel

Farage, since the repeatedly to ship tussles, the organisational chaos,

the hammering they took in the local elections. Remember, they lost every

single sitting councillor, just one Ukip candidate won his seat, so they

really are taking a pummelling at the moment, and the hope is that

this manifesto can just somehow give them a little bit of a lift. The

difficulty of course obviously as they have lost their main purpose,

their main aim, mainly Brexit. We have all voted for Brexit seven no

longer the great reason for them. So they have to sketch out a different

sort of agenda. I think probably Mr Nuttall is starting so let's have a

listen. Friends, due to a cruel and evil act of terrorism, in

Manchester, on Monday night I also want to make it clear that the vast

majority of the Muslim population of this country are peaceful people,

and a great asset to our society. The fact that this Islamist

terrorist targeted a concert, which was primarily attended by children

and teenagers, simply proves that there is no depths to which these

evil and warped individuals will stoop. When I was elected leader of

Ukip six months ago, I was clear right away that the threat posed to

our country by Islamic fundamentalism was one of the major

issues I and indeed all politicians would face in the coming years. I

also identified the need to take a far more muscular approach to social

integration and against segregation as a key policy area. I also made it

clear that extra investment in the security of our country was a top

priority, both in terms of our police and our Armed Forces. Today's

Ukip manifesto underlined all three of those priorities. Security in the

form of provision for 20,000 extra police officers. 20,000 extra

troops. 7000 extra prison officers and 4000 extra border guards. It was

quite right that campaigning in this election is ceased to 24 hours

yesterday but I believe it is the right decision to launch our

manifesto today. It is the duty of democratic politics to confront the

most serious issues of our time, and a general election campaign is the

most appropriate moment for those issues to be debated. It is also our

chance to send a message to those who hate our way of life, our values

and democracy. The message is clear, you will not win. If hissing

sympathy with those killed and maimed in Manchester is important,

but it is not enough to light candles or signal our upset on

social media. When you are a leader of a political party, you have the

duty to set out how you would protect the people of your country

from the threat to the entire way of life. There is no magic formula to

turning back the tide of Islamic fundamentalism. Action needs to be

taken across many policy areas, and it will take time to make

significant progress. But be in no doubt, the problem will not be

solved if politicians are too cowardly to confront or even

identify where the problem lies. Moreover, without the political will

to take difficult decisions, challenge communities, and most

importantly secure our borders, things are only going to get worse.

I was criticised by certain sections of the media for calling radical

Islam a cancer in our society, following the Westminster attack. I

make no apologies for saying this, and I will repeated today: it is a

cancer that needs to be cut out. It is the role of Ukip in our national

political life to challenge the cosy establishment consensus whenever it

is failing the British public. We did that on immigration control, we

did that on Brexit, and now we will do it by tackling issues surrounding

integration. These are issues that the other political parties would

rather brushed under the carpet, and the Westminster chatterati would

rather ignore, simply because it makes them uncomfortable. The Prime

Minister has during her time in office presided over cuts to our

police service and reductions in our Armed Forces are too. She has put

pressure on the police to lower the number of stops and searches they

carry out. And no progress whatever was made reducing the level of

immigration in order to give social cohesion and a chance to advance.

This despite Mrs May's pledge to bring net migration down to the tens

of thousands, and indeed this morning it was announced that we

have added a city the size of Hull to our population in the last year.

It is also a dereliction of duty to allow jihadis to re-enter this

country, including it seems Monday night's terrorist. I want to make it

clear that I believe anyone who leaves this country to fight for

Islamic State should forfeit their passport, their citizenship, and

never be allowed to return. APPLAUSE More police, more soldiers, more

prison officers, and more border guards are essential. There are many

other things in our manifesto today, including something that all of the

other political parties would love to be able to offer but cannot. That

is 11 billion a year spending increase for the NHS and adult

social care by the end of the next Parliament. That increase matches

the reduction we are pledged to make in foreign aid spending.

All of our key Public Services came together to help the victims of the

terror atrocity in Manchester. The police, the ambulance service, Fire

and Rescue and all of the hospitals which are treating the injured. The

response, just serves to emphasise how people who work in our Public

Services are so vital to our society and its civilised values. It is time

to start investing in them again. There is of course also a major

section in the manifesto about Brexit. And we set out how we will

keep the Government honest to its stated claim of taking Britain out

of the European Union. We have laid out six key Brexit tests that we

feel need to be met to ensure that we get the kind of Brexit that

people voted for last year. Ukip is the country's insurance policy, and

if the Government begin to backslide during these negotiations, then it

must know that Ukip will be there. We will also be the party that

stands up for gender equality. Freedom of expression and equality

before the law. And make sure that these values are applied in every

community within our country. No doubt we will suffer insults from

the politically correct brigade for doing so. But that will not deter

us. They will be the same people who called us racist for simply arguing

for lower immigration. And just as we were proved right about the

strains of excesses of the immigration and the strains it was

placing on British communities, and we were right about the way Brussels

had hollowed out our democracy, so we'll be proven right again about

Britain's integration emergency. It's seldom easy being a Ukiper.

Joining and establishment party would offer a far easier route to

preferment. But this party is all about believing in our country and

putting it first. It is not the British way to turn a blind eye to

evil in our midst. It is not good enough to light candles and proclaim

that extremists will not beat us. Action is required on multiple

fronts and I am proud Ukip is setting out its patriotic agenda for

defending our country and our way of life. And now, I am equally proud to

hand over to my deputy chairman, Suzanne Evans, who will take you

through some of the specific proposals within our 2017 manifesto.

Thank you. STUDIO: The Ukip leader Paul Nuttall

outlining what he says is Ukip's patriotic agenda for this country in

the aftermath of the Manchester bombings. Let's go to Norman Smith,

our political guru, who was listening to what he said.

How do you see how Ukip is trying to position itself here?

Really interesting. They are making integration the crux of their whole

manifesto, saying the mainstream parties have basically been too

cowardly to quote Paul Nuttall, to confront the issue, Ukip's role said

Mr Nuttall was to cut out the cancer of Islamic fundamentalism. We didn't

get any detail. One idea floated was to take passports away, not allowing

people back into the country, the suggestion of border guards, prison

officers, police officers, not clear how that will be funded, but Mr

Nuttall seems to be trying to move Ukip into different terrain away

from the focus on Brexit, away from the focus on imfrustration and on to

this issue of integration, a highly, highly charged issue, particularly

in the wake of the Manchester attacks. Paul Nuttall saying it's

not good enough any longer just to express horror and outrage, to have

vigils, to light candles, more has to be done. So they are trying to

position themselves, I suppose, as the party that will take steps to

tackle Islamic fundamentalism. What the steps are, we don't yet know.

Thank you very much, Norman. Coming up, we'll be speaking to some

of the heroes of the Manchester attack, the people who helped to

shine some light in the city's darkest hour. We'll talk to a former

top policeman about the effect of 25 years in frontline policing on his

health and his life and how he feels now about Manchester.

We'll talk to him about the pressures frontline officers dealing

with the aftermath will be feeling right now. Let's catch up with the

news with an neat that in the newsroom. -- Annita.

BBC News has been told that the police have stopped sharing

information about the Manchester bombing with officials

in the United States, following a series of leaks thought

to have come from the American intelligence community.

Last night, the New York Times published photographs apparently

showing fragments from the bomb and a backpack used to conceal it.

Elaine McI've who was a police officer with the Cheshire force was

killed in the bombing, as well as 50-year-old Wendy Fawell from Ottley

who also died in the attack. Theresa May is to raise concerns

with Donald Trump after evidence from the Manchester Arena bombing

was apparently leaked to US media. President Trump is in Brussels

today, ahead of a NATO summit, where he's been meeting

European Council leader Donald Tusk. The prime minister is expected

to raise the issue of the leak Two more men have been

arrested in connection One was detained following searches

of an address in the Withington area of the city, while another

was arrested in a part of Greater Manchester

that was not disclosed. The new arrests bring

the total number of people The suspect's older brother is among

those in custody in Manchester. Two other members of his family have

have been detained in Libya. Migration to Britain

fell significantly last Net long-term international

migration to the UK was estimated to be 248,000 in 2016,

a fall of 84,000 compared to 2015. The office for National

statistics said the change rise in the number of people

leaving the country, mainly EU citizens,

and a fall in the number of people

arriving in Britain. Despite the fall, net

migration is still more than double the government

target level. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News; more at 10.30. A victory for Manchester United who

are this morning celebrating a 2-0 victory over Ajax in

the Europa League last night. There was a minute's

silence just before that game started, as a mark

of respect for those Paul Pogba gave United

the lead within the first 20 Henrik Mkhitaryan added

the second after the break. It means that United

qualify for next Jose Mourinho pay

tribute to his players for the way they handled at under

such difficult circumstances. Jenson Button says he's the luckiest

guy ever to be back in Formula One for the Monaco Grand Prix. The

former world champion has been out in practise this morning and

replaces Fernando Alonso in McLaren whilst the Spaniard races the Indie

500. More coming up later. We can join Jane Hill in Manchester

this morning. She's with some of those heroes of Manchester. Amidst

very poignant scenes there Jane of the floral tributes in Manchester.

Which just keep growing, Joanna. Good morning from St Anne's square

which I'm sure anyone who's been following anything that's happened

here in Manchester is now aware, St Annes Square very much the focus and

people honestly arriving all the time here. I have seen so many

people in the last couple of hours come here to lay flowers, to leave

tributes, to read the many, many messages that are here.

People are laying flowers, people of all ages, all colours, representing

the real demographic here of Manchester. Let's talk to three

people with strong ties to the city who're very actively involved in

everything that is going on here in the wake of the attack at the

Manchester Arena. Welcome to Syma Iqbal, a GP here in Manchester, you

have worked here for over 12 years I think as a GP. Samantha Barber, born

and bred Manchester, you run your own tattoo business and I know

you're setting up a fund-raising initiative that's going to take

place this weekend to accept some of those who've been affected, I'll ask

you about that in a momenten and Mollie Rylance, another local. I'll

start with you Molly because you were actually at the gig on Monday

night. Yes. We got out and it was like a minute after it, it all just

blew up. I grabbed my friend and the main thought was to run and get out

as soon as we could. Yes, it was madness, terrifying. How have you

and your friend reflected on that since then and the fact that

mercifully you are here with us you're fine, but what have you been

saying to each other? We have been each other's support, if we are

having a down time, we'll speak to each other about the experience and

how it's changed us for the better, to kind of grab life by the horns

and do what we can when we can. Syma, you are a GP, I'm curious what

people have been saying to you because you are still working and

have come out to speak to us. What are some of your patients been

saying? I was just going to add to that to say if you have been

affected by that, go to your GP, we are here to help. On Tuesday morning

when I went into work, it was quite normal, very busy in the morning, a

sombre quiet atmosphere and patients don't normally talk about news

events, but on that morning, patients were coming in and

commenting and saying how tragic it was and how upset they were about

what had happened. That's a first for us really. And your husband, I

should add, is a surgeon. He is, yes. And he went in overnight? He

did. Like other doctors, colleagues, on the Monday night we were

following the events as they were happened. I was at Victoria train

station at 10, I dropped a friend off, by the time I got home and

looked at my phone, I was reading the stories about the attack, it was

almost surreal. So you missed it by half an hour? Yes, I had the

thoughts of, what if I stayed with my friend if I chatted a bit longer,

could I have helped other victims. All sorts goes through your head. I

followed social media. My husband went in, as did his colleagues at

3am, I saw him 12 hours later, he was very quiet and you know, being

doctors and medics, you are trained to deal with difficult situations

but when it's on such a large scale and when the victims are children,

and being parents as well, it's very difficult, you know, to come to

terms with that. You have two small children yourself? Yes, two boys. Do

they ask you questions? Yes. On the Tuesday morning I felt like I should

say something to my ten-year-old because going to school I didn't

want him to not know anything but it's such a difficult strange

conversation to have you know. At work I'll talk about breaking bad

diagnosese but at home to say to him, I said there are good people

and bad people in this world and a very bad person has, you know, set

up a bomb. We have been to the arena many times so he knew where I was

talking about and children at school might be talking about it but

Manchester, you know people in Manchester are strong and we'll bet

through this -- get through this. At school they played clips from

Newsround to help the children and had a discussion about it in class.

I've asked him again this morning to probe to see how he's doing and he

seems to be doing well. He is still a bit young to tons full scape of

what happened. The resilience and coming together of the community on

Monday evening, sometimes people say what are the Muslims doing, we are

doing what everyone else is doing, we were there on Monday, ferrying

people in taxis, opening doors, providing food and water. We are

Manchester, I'm a proud Mancunian and it's such a diverse resilient

city and we have been here before after the IRA incident and we have

rebuilt ourselves and we can do it again definitely.

Samantha, what you are going to be organising this weekend is part of

that. You are going to raise money through your profession as a tattoo

artist. Explain what you are going to do? I have reached out to a few

others, to raise money for the Manchester charity. We are going to

sign money straight over to help the victim's families. And people

assuming they want to and they are brave enough, I'm sure they can

donate ?50 anyway, but you can give the tattoo for that and you and your

colleagues will, engrave, it's not the right word but will tattoo the

B, lots of people have drawn a B on it and it's a real symbol of Bs from

people in Manchester? A lot of people are using it through a symbol

of strength and we have got a lot of family members of some of the

victims coming forward who want it as a memorial tattoo now and

paramedics and health workers who've been on scene who were there in the

aftermath who also want to come together and get their too too done.

And Molly you've just had it done so it's all covered up, you have to

allow it time to heel but it's on your leg. Did you have any doubts

about that, why did you want to get that done? No doubts. I wanted it

to, not to remember what happened but to remember how resilient we are

as a community and how everybody stood together and said that it's

not going to break us. So for you it's a positive thing. Someone might

wanting might think they would worry a few years down the line you might

have more negative contagions? No, not at all -- connotations. No, not

at all, I'll think about the positive things. And Syma, that

phrase can be a cliche, "everybody coming together" but you are saying

from your experience and your husband's, that it's genuine, it's

continuing to happen? It is, you know. The interfaith vigils.

Actions, it's not just a cliche but it's actions of people that have

shown that we have come together as a community and we'll grieve

together but rebuild the city together as well.

Really good to talk to you, thank you so much for coming particularly

because I know you have got to go back to work so really great for you

to talk to us and Samantha and Molly, thank you very much indeed,

thanks so much for being with us. Joanna, much more from here

throughout the day. Of course, we are leading up to the nationwide two

minutes' silence at 11 o'clock to remember the scores and scores of

people affected here in Manchester by what happened on Monday night.

For now, back to you, Joanna. Thank you very much. As we see the

floral tributes, we can tell you, 19 victims have now been named. Amongst

them a police officer, an inseparable young couple, a true

gentleman, a bubbly receptionist, the woman who died shielding her

niece from the blast, the Polish couple who died picking up their

daughters. Tributes continue to be paid to those killed at the

Manchester Arena. The mum of Olivia Campbell, one of the victims named

so far, described as a precious gorgeous girl spoke at a vigil in

Bury, thanking the community for trying to find her daughter and she

urged them not to let the attack beat them. This is what she said.

From myself, Olivia's dad and step children who aren't here. Thank you,

thank you for giving support, this is such a hard time for us. I had to

come. I didn't know what to do. I don't know where to be. I don't know

what to do. I just knew. Something told me I had to come and be here. I

can see Olivia's friends there. As a family, we are united, we are

standing strong. I ask her friends, strangers, relative, to do the same.

Please stay together, don't let this beat any of us, please. Don't let my

daughter be a victim. Well said... That's the mum of Olivia Campbell

talking last night. In a moment we'll speak to a former frontline

police officer about the impact on those who're dealing with the

aftermath of the attack. Just under 1,000 servicemen and women have been

deployed as part of Operation Tempera, the Government's plan to

put soldiers on the streets to support police with the security

threat raised to critical. The Home Secretary has said that 3,800 extra

troops are available to patrol the streets. They're providing

much-needed support to police but it's an extraordinary measure. It

was last used more than a decade ago, raising questions about what

more the police need in the fight against terror. We can talk to Chris

Hobbs, a former Detective Sergeant in the Metropolitan Police Special

Branch for Counter-Terrorism and Emily Winter, a Counter-Terrorism

research fellow at a ethink-tank and Tim Cross, a former senior commander

in the British army. Thank you for joining us. Chris Hobbs, what do the

police need in terms of resources? No doubt it's been a difficult few

years for the police. They've lost 21,000 officers, 26,000 support

staff and policing has suffered. Armed police dropped by 130 1300

during this period, they are now being brought up to speed. Certain

things are improving and there's huge concern. One of the concerns is

it's not just armed police or counterterrorist officers, it's

about police being in the community. These communities, for example, that

may produce Jihadists and terrorist groups, at the moment community

policing is suffering as a result of Government cuts. We then move on to

intelligence. Intelligence from is incredible. You need to be police

out there and need a good intelligence flow. That's suffered

incredibly since 2010. That's something that needs to be put right

urgently. Emily, do you think the reduction in police numbers has had

an impact? Yes. I mean I think the point raised about community

policing in particular when we look at it from countering violent

extremism perspective, or look at it from that point of view, it's trying

to have sources that are trusted within the communes which often is

fulfilled by the community policing mechanisms. When we talk about CVE

generally globally, we emphasise the significance of community policing,

so hearing there is been a degrease in that particular area is obviously

a concern. Tim Cross, the army are now going out on the streets to

bolster the police. Is that as much about reassurance as actually

protection? Yes, it's certainly a part of that. I would say first of

all the army being deployed falls under the umbrella of the military

assistance to the civil power. There's another sort of military

assistance to the civil authority which covers things like

foot-and-mouth and floods and so on. The civil power is rarely used, it's

basically what we used for Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s in

particular. It's very unusual and it's really I suppose a mixture of

reassurance, but also deterrents to put off any subsequent bomber who

may decide or may have thought they would like to have a crack at

something. But there is a danger of course that the soldiers themselves

can become targets and I'm not really convinced how the British

public feel having soldiers on the street. Historically, Britain's

never played this idea of a third force or using its military like

many other nations do and I personally believe that's right. I

am sure the Government took this decision reluctantly, not sure how

long it will two on for, I suspect not for too long and it's unusual,

not used for at least a decade. Yes, Chris, I think they were last

applied at 2007 when there was a threat to planes at Heathrow. The it

was 2003 actually, and I was there. There is no resentment from the

police with the army being there. At times there was a fear that you

could get a missile shooting down a plane, that is why they were there.

It was very incongruous seeing tanks patrolling around. It is a good

relationship between the police and the military, but I think certainly

in terms of this particular scenario that we have at the moment, really

the soldiers are incredibly professional, we have the best Armed

Forces in the world, but really they should be police out there. We

should have sufficient policing resources. At this moment in time,

we shouldn't really need to deploy the Army. As just suggested,

especially if they are patrolling alone, they could be put in some

very difficult situations, if someone as we have seen, someone

waving a knife around, soldiers, no police, how does he react? It

doesn't have the same weaponry, the resources that a police officer can:

com he has verbal resources, CS gas, a Taser. Just getting some breaking

news, the police and the army responding to a call at a college in

Trafford, several roads are closed, if you know the local area,

Mancunian way, Lynn B Street and Jackson Street. Officers are in

attendance and the situation is being assessed. The police say that

the Army is on its way to a college in the Trafford area and Greater

Manchester, obviously we don't know any further details about what

exactly this call is focused on, why they are responding. But police and

army heading to the scene. Chris Como what do you make of the extra

dimension of the Army being involved in this operation? It could be

something to do with a device, perhaps, so you might have for

example bomb disposal unit. Generally speaking, you would have

to say most scenarios that would occur with someone who is armed, and

active shooter, the Blues normally are well-trained enough to respond

to it so it will be very interesting to see what part the Army plays when

we eventually know what is going on. Amelie, how do you see the Simao

says we are currently seeing between the two forces? Yes, from what I had

originally understood, the need to have the Army involved to a limited

degree was to protect certain parts of the country. Obviously it links

back to the concerned that maybe there are not enough police on the

streets. But reports of potentially the Army to be engaged in saturation

on the streets is quite unusual. Tim, part of your career was spent

in Northern Ireland. At a practical level, what is it like when the army

working alongside the police? It is a very strong relationship. I

commanded a bomb relationship in the 70s. In those days, we were very

firmly under the command of the police. We were there supporting

them, not the other way round. The Gold Command headquarters running

all of this will be commanded by senior officers, with military

assisting alongside. What Chris is putting his finger on and you are

gathering around as the rules of engagement for the Army, which is a

very important part of this. Obviously, the military generally

speaking art preparing for high-intensity war fighting

operations but we do a lot of training for peace operations,

noncombative training and so on. Most of our soldiers today will have

had relatively little experience of that because over the last ten to 15

years clearly most of our boys and girls have been out in Iraq and

Afghanistan. Northern Ireland is a long time ago. There will not be

many people around who have served in that environment. The soldiers

will be delighted to be involved in this. Like everybody else, to put it

politely, they are pretty angry about what this guy has done and the

potential for further devastation from suicide bombers and so on. So

they will be delighted to be involved but they are very firmly

under the command of the police, they enjoy working with the police,

very strong relationships with them, but the issue of the roles of

engagement, who commands on a particular incident, how people

react to that, which is why, going back to the earlier point, generally

speaking the military will be used to guard the key points, in order to

release the police so they can go and deal with the sorts of

incidents. I suspect the military are responding to what you have just

been responding is perhaps bomb disposal teams, although the police

have very capable team is now, or maybe some special forces who are

there to help support the armed police. MLE, the Army are drafted in

because of the threat level being raised to critical, how will that be

assessed -- Emily. I think we will have to see what happens over the

next few days with this ongoing operation, which clearly is still

being carried out. Even this morning they said and other controlled

explosion had taken place within the Manchester area. I think we will

have to see how that unfolds. I mean, more broadly, moving forwards,

the concern is to be able to resume business as normal, and to restore

confidence among people, that obviously their security is as