The Big Debate Victoria Derbyshire

Good morning and welcome to Dunstable in Bedfordshire.

With just over a week to go till a general election,

we're here to look at some of the key issues that may influence

I'm very worried about security in the country and I don't trust any of

the parties to deal with it. Hello, I am Nasir and I'm concerned about

the state of NHS funding. I am Helena from Luton, I am fed up with

the immature backstabbing between parties. It is undermining your

credibility, please get on with your jobs. I am Mark from Luton, I am

worried about affordable housing for local people.

I'm not happy with the choices we have for next Prime Minister.

Theresa May is not prepared to stand on a platform and take questions

from her peers and the audience, then she doesn't deserve our votes.

I am voting SNP. And of course you can get

in touch wherever you are - You can email [email protected],

text 61124, hashtag victorialive on Twitter, or search

Victoria Derbyshire on Facebook. We're live until 11am this morning

with an audience of 120 people, and live on stage

at the Grove Theatre. Here to tell our assembled

group of politicians exactly what they think

about key issues like the NHS, Brexit, the economy,

housing and security. There is so much to talk about this

morning, not enough time so let's crack on with the news.

Police say they've arrested a 23-year-old man in the seaside

town of Shoreham-by-Sea near Brighton in connection

with last week's Manchester terror attack.

It brings the total of people arrested over the attack to 16,

I've just finished work, on my way home, getting ready to go to

my girlfriend's house, and there are police outside my door.

Do you know why the police are there?

I was reading something I've seen online on the way home and I was

Meanwhile, the security service MI5 is to hold an inquiry into how it

dealt with information from the public

Authorities were warned about Salman Abedi's extremist views

on at least three occasions, but failed to stop him murdering

Customers of British Airways have expressed frustration over a lack of

information. I think one of the main

frustrations certainly yesterday when people

were wondering how do we get back home,

was the fact that the advice coming from British Airways for people

who were overseas just simply wasn't working and it wasn't helping

you re-book flights back to the UK. British Airways were saying

they were going to run a near normal service from Heathrow and Gatwick

yesterday, one of the major frustrations for people I've been

speaking to here was the fact that there was no mention

really of all those thousands of people

who were More than 200 drivers a day have

been caught using their mobile phones in the month after the law

was changed to bring According to figures obtained

by the Press Association, that's the equivalent of one offence

every seven minutes. The penalty for using a phone

while driving doubled to ?200 New drivers now face

losing their licence altogether. Japan has lodged a protest

after North Korea fired a missile The Scud missile,

which was launched from North Korea's eastern coast,

travelled around 280 miles before crashing into the sea

near the Japanese mainland. It's the third apparently successful

missile test by the military Police in County Down sale Lone

gunmen was responsible for shooting a man dead in front of his son in

Bangor. He was approached in the car park of a Sainsbury's supermarket

and shot several times. Officers have called it a cold-blooded

murder. France's new president,

Emmanuel Macron, will hold talks with his Russian counterparty

Vladimir Putin later in their first meeting since Macron

was elected earlier this month. It could prove awkward

for the two leaders - during the French campaign,

Mr Putin hosted Mr Macron's Russia has also been accused

of launching cyber attacks against the Macron campaign in a bid

to undermine it. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30am. Fernando Alonso made his publicised

debut in the Indy 500 race but engine failure meant he had to pull

out with 21 laps to go. The talking point of this race will be this,

Howard and Dixon colliding with each other at 178 mph. A lucky escape for

both drivers as they were able to get out of their cars after this. In

fact Dixon said after those who will be back racing very soon. Not too

bad, my ankle is beaten up, I might have a small fracture there but

hopefully on the mend and back in the car next week. It is very

slippery, probably picked up some debris. I was hoping he would stay

high but as he collected the wall the car came down and had nowhere to

go. In tennis, Aljaz Bedene gets under

way in the French Open first Yesterday, a big moment

for Dan Evans, who made his debut in the tournament -

it ended in defeat, though, Clay is not Evans' favourite

surface, and it showed, as the British number four lost

by three sets to one. This could prove to be

the shock of the tournament - the top seed in the women's draw,

Angelique Kerber, She was beaten in straight sets

by Ekaterina Makerova. It's billed as the most lucrative

match in world football, and it's estimated that

at least ?170 million awaits the winner of today's

Championship play-off final between Huddersfield

Town and Reading. One of those two clubs will join

Newcastle and Brighton in promotion Sometimes the feeling, if you are

not over support, everybody in Britain, maybe in Europe, supports

Huddersfield town and likes to bring this fairy tale to happy and so it

looks like the second fairy tale in British football in a row after

Leicester last season, and this is what we are feeling. We are feeling

that we get back from a lot of people all over Britain. We need to

think about what we need to do now to win that game. That's what we

will be facing. We are not going to be thinking about what it does to

the club if we win, there is also a chance of losing.

That's the sport - now back to Victoria in Dunstable.

Good morning and welcome back to Bedfordshire.

On the agenda today - security, the NHS, Brexit,

housing and whatever else our audience of 120

It was 41 days ago that Theresa May surprised most of us by announcing

a snap general election, campaigning for which was suspended last

week after Manchester's devastating terror attack

Since then security has dominated the agenda with Labour

and the Conservatives both promising to bolster

In the light of what happened in Manchester a week ago, is anybody

going to change their vote? My name is Charlie, I am from Luton, I run a

small business. I have lived in England for 30 years and the last

election I voted Conservative. Following the Manchester bombing and

the subsequent talks between the parties, I am looking at I don't

want to carry on with the policy bombing Middle Eastern countries and

them trying to defend themselves with security services here. It is

plainly not working and Jeremy Corbyn is starting to cut free with

me that there could be another way and I'm interested in what Labour

say on this. Anybody else who is changing the vote as a result of the

events last week? No, I'm not changing my vote but I want to

contribute to the debate on terrorism and security. Can I ask

what you were planning to vote? I will vote Labour. And how do you

think the parties have responded? What is your view of the way the

parties have responded since the events last Monday? They have

responded expectedly, everyone has come out and condemned it. But my

regret is a Muslim and as a British citizen is that the policies in this

area of our community life have not been working. The evidence is there

in one form or another in the shape of Manchester and in the shape of

other arrests and prosecutions which are being taken against people who

are involved in terrorism. What is the one thing you would want to see

changed? What I would like to see is that a medium to long-term project

of integration for Muslim community is promoted, and that would be done

through talking to imams, community activists, and directly with Muslim

communities. Making it known to them that their voices are very weak in

condemning extremism. They need to be more strong, obvious and clear.

Thank you, lady over here. After Manchester, I have bought tickets

for Robbie Williams concert for my son and my reaction was instantly to

tell him not to go. The youngsters have the attitude that we are not

going to be stopped by these people, but security needs to be looked

into. We need more police officers as a first-line back on the streets

and in strategic places we need armed officers, not just a bobby on

the beat. Have you changed the way you will vote as a result? No, I was

heading toward Labour and after what I have heard in the last week it

will probably still be Labour. I have been a campaigner for democracy

in Luton for the last three and a half years, in discrimination in

different areas. I would still vote Conservative and wouldn't change my

mind because I think Theresa May would stand up for us and if she

gets a good vote she would come out the next day and let Europe go to

hell. That's clear, thank you. I am Derek, on the basis of at least

10,000 new police officers Jeremy Corbyn has promised, but where is

this money coming from? Diane Abbott coming out with figures all over the

place. It is good money but I think it will change with her hairstyle.

That is a reference to an interview Diane Abbott gave yesterday when she

spoke about her hairstyle. Let me bring in some politicians who are

here today. Dominic Raab, your Home Secretary suggested this country

would face a greater risk to security of this country were Prime

Minister, do you agree with her? Yes, that's true. We have increased

counterterrorism police, we are bringing in 2000 more into

intelligence agencies and we have spoken about more vigorous policing

in the online space and prosecuting UK jihadis who go into the

battlefield abroad. I do think leadership matters and I will put it

as candid as I can. I don't think you can compare the leadership

Theresa May offers with Jeremy Corbyn, who has had a political

lifetime of sporting the IRA. In 2009 he described Hamas and

Hezbollah members as his friends. I don't think the guy that wants to

befriend the terrorists is the right guy to defend us against the

terrorists. You could hear the groans from the audience. My name is

Terry and I am from Luton. I want to challenge you straightaway. If it

hadn't been for Jeremy Corbyn talking about Northern Ireland,

talking with the IRA back in the day, there would be no peace

process. He opened the door, and by the way Margaret Thatcher was doing

back door deals. Anyway, what really annoys me about Conservatives and

your Tory media, the day after Manchester it was there. Jeremy

Corbyn has got blood on his hands. You want to talk about that, Theresa

May is selling weapons to the Saudis who are dropping them on kids in

Yemen. If Jeremy Corbyn has blood on his hands, Theresa May is bathing in

blood. Theresa May was leading the Home

Office when she cut 20,000 police officers and 1300 armed officers and

26,000 support staff in community support officers. Dominik, has that

had an impact on Officers' ability to build trust within communities

and therefore intelligence gatherer at local level? In terms of ordinary

crime... No, I am asking specifically about intelligence

gathering. In terms of counterterrorism police... I am not

asking about counterterrorism police, I am asking about the 20,000

fewer police officers and the 26,000 fewer support staff. Do you think

that has had an impact on building trust within communities? Yes or no?

I don't think that is a simple question of pouring in more

resources. No, it is about cutting resources. Victoria, you have

interrupted me. Because you are not answering the question. Let me try

and answer it. We have invested more in counterterrorism police. Are you

saying that those cuts have not had no impact? Please answer the

question. We would all like more police on the street, but I have

pointed to ordinary crime because with respect, finite resources can

be focused to get better outcomes in terms of cutting crime and

terrorism. But you also need leadership. It is all very well this

gentleman said Jeremy Corbyn was somehow John the Baptist, leading us

to peace in Northern Ireland. But the reality is, just last Friday, he

couldn't be honest about meeting convicted IRA members. And by

Sunday, we knew he had. I don't think that is the kind of straight

talking politician we need to lead us and I don't think someone that is

so keen to get close with convicted terrorists or Hezbollah and Hamas

members is the right person to protect this country from terrorism.

Emily Thornberry for Labour, Jeremy Corbyn has expressed support for

what people describe as Britain's enemies, revert to Hamas as friends,

associated with Gerry Adams within weeks of the Brighton bombing. That

is a problem for Labour, isn't it? Jeremy's approach is a clear one,

which is that we need to talk to people when we can in order to find

common ground and find a way forward. But do you accept that his

past associations mean he has a problem when it comes to national

security? I think that for fair-minded people, that is not

true. People know he was representing a community that had a

high proportion of Irish people. In the 1980s, something had to be done

and he was involved in trying to bring people to the table. So was

the Conservative government, but they were doing it secretly. He was

doing it openly. And we got the Good Friday agreement. We can't deal with

Daesh, because they are a death cult. There is no negotiation with

guys like that. But where you can find common purpose, work with

people. And when people point out that Jeremy Corbyn and your Shadow

Home Secretary Diane Abbott have both voted against or not turned up

for every vote that has ever been since 2001 when it comes to

anti-terror legislation, why should people trust your party? Diane was

saying yesterday that a lot of these votes were the ones where

Conservatives voted the same way as Jeremy and Diane in any event. But

why should people trust Labour on national security? Because the

approach that Labour takes is to look at legislation that works.

Let's look at legislation that doesn't divide communities, but

brings them together. If there are things the security services need by

way of legislation, we should give it to them. But we don't just do

things for the sake of being seen to do things. I voted against 90 days

where people were to be arrested on the basis of no evidence and been

held for three months. I later voted against 42 days. I am proud of that

because that would have divided our communities and was not going to

help with fighting terrorism. Tina from Milton Keynes. Is now not the

time for all our parties to come together and have a cross-party

coalition so that we cancel got -- we cancel the security? We have lost

and had people murdered in our country this week. Innocent

children's futures have been wiped out. Why can't the parties come

together and form a strong strategy to move forward and be tough on

terrorism? I am Azeez from London. This is a question for MLA. I hear

what you are saying in terms of Jeremy Corbyn's approach being to

talk to people, but how would that conversation go? The terrorists you

are talking about, they are not forthcoming people that you sit down

at a table and have a conversation and a cup of tea with. They are

dangerous. They are a detriment to the world. So how do you expect that

conversation to go when you talk to them? I agree with you. That was the

point was trying to make, which is that there are some people you can

talk to. So we had to find a way through with Northern Ireland. The

problem with Islamic State or Daesh or whatever it is called is that all

they want to do is attack our way of life. You don't talk to people who

simply say, if girls wear miniskirts, we are going to blow

them up. There is no talking to people like that. So it depends who

you talk to. When people try to drag us back to the 1980s and said it was

wrong for Jeremy Corbyn to speak to the Irish, that is an entirely

different situation. People are playing party political games with

this. Would you support a party that advocated talking to Isis?

Absolutely not. They are not to be spoken to. Do you think they will be

defeated militarily in the end? That is very hard to say. I don't think

they will be defeated militarily, but I don't think talking to them is

the solution. I am Roger, the Remainer from the West Midlands.

Jeremy Corbyn has always been an ally of terrorists. All he is doing

at the moment is trying to keep a lid on it. If I remember correctly,

he brought Gerry Adams to the Houses of Parliament within a short while

after the Brighton bombing. He is trying to keep a lid on what he

really believes. The other point is, I don't think the UK should ever go

into another conflict with just the US as a partner. Which is the party

you support to better protect this country? In a nutshell, none of

them! Let me bring in the Liberal Democrats. Let me answer that. I

think it is really unfair to try to paint Jeremy Corbyn somebody who

doesn't love this country as much as anyone else, who doesn't want to

keep this country safe. I did not say he didn't love this country.

Where it has been possible to talk to people, that is what you do. In

relation to IS of course we cannot defeat this death cult militarily.

We have to make sure we do not allow people to become marginalised. Those

who are becoming extreme, we need to bring in a strategy that keeps us

safe. Lord Newby, your party when government with the Conservatives

when you allowed those cuts to police numbers to go ahead. How DUP?

The big cuts in police numbers have happened very recently. Know, since

2010, when you were in government. We had to make reductions across the

board in 2010 because we inherited an absolute financial crisis. The

question is what we do now about it. In your manifesto, you say you would

reduce state surveillance powers and scrap the government's counter

radicalisation programme. How would that help people? Well, the Prevent

programme is not totally successful because it is a top-down programme.

Would we be better protected without it? Well, you would replace it with

something else. The thing you need to replace it with, you need more

community engagement and you need to invest more in community policing.

The chief Inspector of Constabulary said the community policing model is

now under threat. That is the easiest way to protect our

community. Let's hear from the SNP and then Ukip. I think we should

stop impugning one another's motives in this debate. It leaves an

extraordinarily bad taste. We are in the immediate aftermath of this

terrorist atrocity that has destroyed so many families' lives,

and we are all horrified by it. And all of our political leaders are

determined to stop terrorism. So it is in bad taste for Dominic to use

this the way he is. This is an old electoral trick. We have seen it in

the United States. The Tories do it at times of crisis that somehow, a

Conservative government is going to keep us safe and government of

another he will leave all exposed. It is nonsense. Where are all

patriots. I don't doubt that Jeremy Corbyn has a set of values in his

own mind which are honourable. Than leave it at that. I don't think I

will leave it at that, and I will tell you why. In ten days' time, we

will take a decision on who is going to lead this country and it is not

just the cosying up to some of these unsavoury groups,... You have said

that several times now. It is also the fact that he is talking about

disarming the police. What?! Wet. What do you mean, he has talked

about disarming the police? He has said he's not sure about drone

strikes with civilian casualties. Jeremy Corbyn may be a decent guy,

but he is not the strong leader we need. I am going to bring in Suzanne

Evans from Ukip. Your manifesto launched last week. You said Theresa

May must bear some responsibility for what happened in Manchester. Do

you stand by that? Yes. The gentleman at the top of this

programme said if it comes to a choice between Theresa May Jeremy

Corbyn and keeping the country safe, both fail their records. As you said

at the beginning yourself, Victoria, under Theresa May's rule as Home

Secretary, there were deep cuts to the police force and I think

community policing is very important for stop it is our community police

officers who have their ear to the ground and build relationships with

local communities and can spot discrepancies. Your policy of

wanting to ban the burqa, does that help better protect people? Not per

se. But that is about integration. The trouble with this debate is that

politicians are trying to put forward simplistic solutions. This

is something we have to tackle at numerous levels. We have to tackle

it from a security perspective. We have to make sure we keep our people

say. That is the first job of government. We have to tackle it in

terms of integrating communities better stop I am pleased to hear you

say that there are some elements of the Muslim community that do need to

work harder at that. We need to look at immigration because under a

Labour government, we opened the borders to people... But the bomb

last week was British. His parents were refugees. So we should have

known that their offspring would? His parents have radicalised him. My

point is that there are numerous levels on which we need to attack

this. I agree with what a lot of people have said here. Politicians

try to find simplistic solutions, but integration is a significant

one. You have just said integration is important and I agree with that,

but the notion of telling people what to wear, when to wear it and

how to wear it is ridiculous. If you want to talk about integration, talk

about the success and failure of the Prevent strategy. If these two are

failing, how would you change it effectively? Telling a person what

to wear isn't going to make a difference. I am not going to tell

nuns they can't walk about in black and white habits.

You are very strong woman and I'm sure in any other circumstance you

would stand up... I am here speaking out, do not judge me on whether I am

Muslim or not. You cannot doubt that whether to cover yourself from head

to foot in black, and to be told to do that, that isn't anything but

emancipation to women. There are many women out there who choose to

do that. Where are you on the balaclava ban? This is what happens

in politics, this is why we have a problem in politics because you try

to make a serious point... It is not serious. In our communities we are

being abused in a way that a white, middle-class woman like me... There

is nothing that divides communities more than the oppression of women.

Let me remind our audience of our guests.

Emily Thornberry is Labour's spokesperson on foreign affairs.

Dick Newby is the leader of the Liberal Democrat group

John Nicolson s the SNP's spokesperson on culture,

Suzanne Evans is the Deputy Chair of Ukip.

I am a postgraduate student. I want to pick up on what Susanna said. I

am a British Muslim. The attacks recently I condemn 100%, I don't

think there is anyone in the room that disagrees with that. What I

would say is that I integrate fully in this community. I integrate into

the way of life in the UK, I... And what I find quite distressing is how

yet again from you, Susanna, you say the burqa is something that is

mandatory, you have to wear it. No, I realise it is not. The Muslim

women I have spoken to, I don't think choice is as black and white

as they make out. I have many relatives who choose to wear the

headscarf through their own choice. Suzanne Evans, Muslim woman have

said to you, I am being made to wear this? Yes, and I have spoken to

Muslim women who wear it in certain circumstances, because they feel

that if they don't when there are Muslim men around they will be

viewed as somehow easy. If I'm going to cover myself up because I don't

want to be looked at by men, who has the problem there? Me or the men?

Just to say, by the way, that our audience here in Dunstable

is balanced to represent the number of people who voted for each party

in previous general elections as well as some undecided voters.

The Conservatives were accused of a U-turn on social care last week

after Theresa May said under her plans there would now be a cap on

how much people contributed to their own care costs. The change from the

original policy published in the manifesto four days before. The NHS

and social care is one of the issues people most care about ahead of the

general election and political parties know that, all promising

varying degrees of extra funding. We will introduce the first

new mental health bill for 30 years to put parity of esteem at the heart

of treatment and end the stigma Our health service is actually

being dismantled by stealth. Over the past seven years,

our national health service has been The Liberal Democrats will put 1p

on income tax to raise 30 billion over a parliament to invest

in our national health and social care service so you get

the treatment you deserve So we have a commitment

that by the end of this Scottish Parliament,

the budget will be ?2 billion higher than it is today,

more than inflation. Money not just for hospitals

but for primary care, mental health services and community

services as well. We will have a clear commitment

to slash a foreign aid budget that is costing the British taxpayer

in the region of ?30 million And we will redirect the money saved

and plough it into our NHS. Plaid Cymru wants guaranteed

extra funding for the NHS We've already secured an additional

?20 million for mental health services here,

but that is only the beginning. It simply can't be right that big

business is making money out of that mess, so as well as putting

more finance into the is really clear that we would take

the private sector out of the NHS. Who do you trust most when it comes

to the NHS? Which party do you trust to better protect your parents and

grandparents? Good morning. Scott, I work for a national charity. I want

to talk about dementia. 850,000 people in the UK currently have a

diagnosis of dementia but only two thirds of those actually get any

support because one third are undiagnosed. It costs the UK economy

?26.3 billion per year in dementia. What I want to know is actually what

are you going to do for those people and how are you going to make it

fair and sustainable funded system rather than just causing attacks on

people who have a long-term condition which affects the whole

life? People as young as 30 are getting dementia. Frankly, I am glad

Theresa May did a U-turn but it's time you scrapped that policy

altogether, went back to the drawing board, talking to people who

understand it rather than in your own fancy world picking figures out

of the air which you think works. Talk to people on the ground. We

will get responses from our politicians once we have taken a

snapshot from our voters. My name is Lauren, I live in Dunstable. I think

the Tory proposed policy is fair. Both my parents recently had to go

into a care home and they are having to sell the house. They probably

would have preferred to stay at home but could not have afforded to do

that with the current policy as it stands because the level of care

they require wouldn't be covered by the savings. So I think the policy

is fair, with the protected ?100,000 I cannot see what is unfair and I

would like to see what the Labour Party are going to do? We will ask

them in a moment. There will be a cap now. Theresa May said there will

be an absolute limit on the care costs people would pay, do you agree

with that? I would like to know what that is, but I agree on the fact

there will be a discussion on it. Would you like to know before the

election what the cap is? I would like to know but it won't change my

vote. I would like to talk about social care. We have worked all our

lives to buy our house and educate our children. We don't think the

current policy that the Conservatives have put forward in

the manifesto is fair, and the cap I would like to see considered to be a

percentage cap rather than just a cap somewhere along the line. I do

wonder how on earth the care companies, the caregivers, are going

to afford to provide the care if you don't pay your fee from your house

sale when you die. Were you worried about potentially after your death,

your house being taken from you? No, I don't mind paying for my care. I

have worked all my life, but I do think the way they have put forward

this proposal has been ill thought out. Good morning. I am Denise from

Milton Keynes, a retired public sector worker currently working with

a health charity and a carer for two of my adult children who have mental

and physical health problems. I continue to struggle to find

appropriate and timely care. This complete nonsense by the

Conservative Party that parity of esteem, extra funding for mental

health, it is not ring fenced so the clinical commission groups are using

it wherever. And how can you blame them when the funding has been

drastically cut? As a carer I am supposed to have an assessment, the

staff have been cut four to one so I have a just wait before I can even

get an assessment. In this area we are part of a sustainable scheme

which is nationwide. Milton Keynes is being linked with Luton and

Dunstable and Bedford. Make no mistake it is for cuts. In our

region maternity and A is up for grabs. What that means is your loved

one will have a half-hour ambulance journey to the nearest A, that's

once the ambulance finally gets there. Thank you. Good morning. I

have lived in England for 22 years, I run a care home in Luton looking

after people with learning difficulties. My question is to the

Labour... Prospective... We know what you mean. I know what the

Conservatives have done since 2010, they have cut local funding to local

authorities. I look after clients and we are expected to, with the

living wage that came in, we are supposed to pay staff but the

funding for looking after the service users has not been

increased. The central government has cut the funding, and I want a

note from the other parties what they are proposing to make sure that

the funding is provided and where they will get the money from. Let's

ask them. In terms of NHS and social care, Emily Thornberry, you are in

total promising the most over the next five years, but in your

manifesto you actually say short-term funding solutions for

social care will not address the fundamental long-term challenges of

our ageing demographic. Then you propose a short-term funding

solution. Let's take it step-by-step. Without a doubt,

obviously our country... Our populations are changing. We are

living longer and there needs to be proper thought put into what our

long-term solutions will be in relation to social care,

particularly for the elderly. It's not right for a political party to

call a snap election and then have a snap solution to social care which

is pulled out of a hat by Theresa May and a couple of her advisers in

Number Ten. Those who supported her plans at she was trying to come up

with something sustainable instead of, as somebody suggested here,

getting money from the magic monetary. I was a shadow social care

minister and I remember after the election in 2010 going into Number

Ten and we were supposed to be doing cross-party talks and we were

serious about trying to come together as two political parties to

find a solution and we got nothing but the runaround from the Tories.

In the end they pulled out of those negotiations. The important thing is

that for every pound spent in social care you save ten in terms of the

NHS. We cannot have elderly people going into A in crisis because

they have fallen over and there is not somebody looking after them, and

then for them not to be able to go home because there are some support

in their homes. Lord Newby, you cut money from social care, how has that

contributed to the crisis we see today? I think the question we see

today... This is the second time you have asked me a question about what

happened when we were in coalition. I'm asking how much it has

contributed to the crisis today. Undoubtedly the cuts in social care

which we started have contributed to the problems we face today is the

question is what we do about it. We have said we need to port a very

specific tax proposal that funds social care and health, and that's

why we are saying there should be a penny on income tax so that you can

ring fenced money going into health and social care that is sustainable

in the short term - the next Parliament - but thereafter you have

dedicated social care tax. Everybody pays in, everybody benefits. Loudly,

yes or no, Lib Dems are proposing 1p on income tax, is that something you

would support? There were more yeses than noes. You certainly cannot have

a solution without money, there may be other things you need to do but

we need the money as well. Dominic Raab, what did you think of Theresa

May's capitulation on the social care plan published in the manifesto

and then she changed it a few days later? I wouldn't have characterised

it as capitulation. How would you describe it? I do take the point the

gentleman made about Alzheimer's and dementia. It is a massive burning

social issue and what we have tried to do is grapple with the issue on

three principles. If you can afford to contribute to your own care, that

is important, but you will never on those assets or income come down

below a level that you cannot give ?100,000 to your family, and a

second safeguard is a cap on cost. We have said we will consult on

that. Someone always pays for this. When people say the state should

step in, it is taxpayers who will receive an increase in income tax. I

respect the fact that the Liberal Democrats are trying to do that. But

we are the only ones who have set out a financially solvent way of

dealing with this. And Emily has spent her whole response to the

gentleman's question not setting out what Labour's position is. That is

why we get the brickbats on this. We have a costed manifesto. You have no

costings in your manifesto. Where is the ?8 billion that you claim you

will put into the National Health Service? Less just deal with what

the IFS have said. Where will the ?8 billion come from for the NHS? We

will have real term increases each year, rising to 8 billion in the

last year. Wherefrom? Things like means testing the winter fuel

payment... Where... We have set out a range of tough decisions. That is

why we get stick about this. So the winter fuel allowance will pay for

the 8 billion? You don't go into a Budget and hypothecated saving to

the amount they goes in. But that is what you expect the other parties to

do. I would expect that overall, you have a sensible package with public

finances, you are trying to ease the burden on families. So some savings

from the winter fuel payments. We would not be subsidising free school

lunches for well off parents. We would rather the money went into the

NHS. What about free school breakfasts? Does that add up to 8

billion? You have to look at the savings in the round. We mentioned

the IFS, the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies. They have

suggested that your plans to raise ?49 billion in taxes, you have

miscalculated. Having worked it all out, they think it will be 41

billion. So there was a big shortfall there. So when you promise

people tens of billions for the NHS and social care, you will not be

able to raise that money. We have said to the IFS that they are being

pessimistic about this. We think our measures will work and we are happy

to talk to them about it. Within our manifesto, there is room for us

having underestimated the amount that we might raise in taxation. We

are happy to engage with them. And we would like the Office for Budget

Responsibility, a government body, and we said this about our previous

manifesto as well. There will always be fights about this. Let the OBR

look at our manifesto. They have what you don't like what they came

up with, so you dismiss it. , Well, the office of budget responsibility

is given this as its job and we are happy to engage with them, but let

them look at both manifestos. John Nicolson, nurses in Scotland have

had a cap on their pay since 2008. Help is devolved. Why haven't you

removed that cap by now and given them a pay rise? The Scottish

Government has met the independent pay review bodies' recommendations.

So they don't deserve a pay rise? They absolutely deserve a pay rise.

So is that going to be in your manifesto? Let's see what is in the

manifestos. As you know, MPs get into trouble if they leaked bits of

the manifesto in advance. But nurses in Scotland get paid more than

nurses in England. A nurse in Scotland told Nicola Sturgeon last

week that she had to use food banks. Is that acceptable? Well... Of

course nurses shouldn't go to food banks. That goes without saying. I

don't know the details of that knows's case, so it is difficult to

comment. But I felt we left that discussions without understanding

from Dominic what the cap was going to be for people suffering from

dementia. He said he would consult about the dementia tax, but I don't

know what that means. For a lot of people who are scared about their

assets and their future, they want facts when they enter the general

election. These guys say they will negotiate a good Brexit deal for us,

and they can't even give a simple answer to a simple question. We can.

We said we want to consult what the cap should be. We want to listen to

the experts in the field. After you have stopped listening? Why don't

you do a bit of listening? The question is about the balance

between what the taxpayer pays, which means taxes going up, or what

individuals contribute. And that is a very sensitive issue. These are

the principles. We have put more detail into our planned on any of

the others have done. OK, I am going to hear from some more voters. I am

a carer from West London and I think people should know what it is like.

There are 6.5 million of us caring, unpaid. 800,000 of us get care's

allowance. I care for my two adult children who have complete medical

needs. I care 168 hours a week, through the night. I have two to

three hours of broken sleep a night. That means I am earning 37p an hour.

I have been in a four year war with social services. I have just had my

assessment. They have got a incorrect four times and they are

going to give me three hours were spiked a week, for which they tell

me I can go to the cinema -- and ah about three hours of respite. So if

I leave, get the bus to Richmond, what do I do, watch the adverts and

then come home and do another half-hour handover? Is there a party

that you think is going to help you and your family when it comes to

this issue? Definitely Labour. And are you happy with where they say

they are going to get the money from in order to pay the NHS? At least

they are looking at carer's allowance and want to raise it to

bring us up to an implement benefit. At the moment, we are paid less. --

unemployment benefit. I am Andy from Dunstable. I am here with my wife. I

have been with my wife 17 years and she suffers mental health problems.

17 years ago, everything was working out all right. The hospitals dealt

with it well. We had good staff. Now, it has deteriorated so much

that the police have to arrest someone to take them to hospital.

There is no way she can walk in and get help. We have to get the police

round and get her committed to get help. That is shocking. I would pay

more money to see that she gets looked after. Suzanne Evans from

Ukip, you too are saying you would put more money into the NHS and

social care, 11 billion by 2020, to be paid for how? Well, the money is

there. Ukip has a 35 billion spending pot. Where have you got

that from? We have that with output to get single penny on taxes. We

scrap HS2, this viciously expensive vanity project. We will use the

money we get when we leave the European Union in two years' time,

with a bit of luck. We are going to cut the foreign aid budget so we are

paying on a par with the United States of America, 0.2% instead of

0.7%. That is ?11 billion that could help fund the NHS and social care.

We have heard the stories around this room today of how desperate it

is. Dementia was the first thing we talked about. We will have a

national dementia plan which is desperately needed to get the

expertise together. We will fund that the tune of ?400 million a

year, so we get research and treatment on the best funding.

Mental health - the woman behind me talked about how the mental health

funding is not ringfenced. That is wrong. Clinical commissioning groups

are using it to backfill cuts to other services. We have to invest

more in mental health and give it the parity it deserves. Hello, I am

Fiona from Aberdeen. I am a disability activist. You are all

talking about numbers and money, and there is a notion of suffering under

that. -- there is an ocean of suffering. Figures have been

released saying that in 2015 alone in England and Wales alone, there

were 30,000 excess deaths caused by cuts to health and social care. Tens

of thousands of disabled and sick people are dying every year. There

have been hundreds of suicides. I spent 48 hours after the last

general election tried to talk people out of killing themselves.

And I didn't always succeed. People are dying here, and nobody cares. I

have friends who have been helping resettle disabled people in Scotland

because at the very least, we have a Scottish parliament which is trying

its best with limited funds to protect people against the worst of

these cuts. People have been fleeing England for their lives. We have an

NHS that is stretched, but it works. But with the work capability

assessment, Napier university just released evidence about how it

causes almost universal public meltdown. It kills people. I have

friends who were institutionalised after going through it. It is an act

of violence and we are dying. This election is life or death for us.

Anybody who votes for the Conservative Party, who are going to

keep going with these cuts, they are complicit in those deaths. Let the

Conservatives' Dominic Raab respond. There are plenty of heart wringing

stories here and nobody could be anything other than moved by them.

Could you turn around? She is literally behind you. We have put

more doctors and nurses into the NHS. We have got a renewed focus on

mental health and trying to make sure we take the pressure off big

hospitals in the manifesto. But the raw truth is that the money has to

come from somewhere. I can think of lots of things I would like to avoid

making difficult decisions on in lots of areas like the health

service or schools and put more money in. But unless you have a

strong economy creating the revenue, it is just a childish wish list. We

are doing our best to get the balance right between responsible

public finances... So you choose to sacrifice tens of thousands of

disabled people for the sake of that? This is the sixth richest

country in the world. It is a choice that people make in Scotland. We

have a limited block grant and they still managed to create a health

service which functions. They still create a care service which

functions. You are choosing to sacrifice us. Why won't you scrap

HS2 and give 5 billion to the NHS instead? It is not something anyone

wants. It will only help you get to Leeds ten minutes quicker. It is

very simple. And you give away money in foreign aid. Absolutely. Labour

and the Lib Dems are complicit in that as well. The woman from

Scotland raises an important point about disability. As an MP, you are

often the last port of call for people to talk to you about their

problems. I had a woman who came to see me who was living with dwarfism,

and she had been assessed with zero disability points. They were taking

away her car. She said, I can't get my lead from the subway car to the

platform. I can't climb the escalator because I can't reach the

handrail. If they take my car away, they will force me out of the

workplace and I will be on benefits. That is the reality of the way some

of these disability cuts are biting. It is immensely cruel.

We are rich country. It is a question of what are our priorities.

It seems to me we need to be able to raise more taxation from the richest

who have done very well over the last few years, and what we are

asking for in the Labour Party is those with the biggest shoulders to

pay some more. We can still raise corporation tax and be the lowest

rate of corporation tax in the G7, we can raise money and look after

the most vulnerable. What kind of society are we that doesn't do that?

Some messages from people watching around the UK... Allen on Twitter

says my brother is disabled, he's terrified of further benefit cuts

and the dementia tax. He's not terrified of the IRA. Ian says why

should people be paying taxes for the whole of their life when in

later life they need to sell the house for care? The Conservatives

are the only party worth voting for, Labour under Jeremy Corbyn is

failing to hold voters and going downhill fast. One more, social care

isn't just about an ageing population says James on Twitter,

it's also about giving people with disabilities independence and

self-respect. Keep them coming in. In the next hour we will talk about

Brexit, the economy, immigration and housing. Get in touch in the usual

way. Now, the weather. I will bring you the latest on the bank holiday

forecast shortly but first some cracking shots. These are some of

the spectacular scenes we saw across parts of south-east England. Massive

storms moved up through northern France overnight and pushed into the

North Sea. We saw close to 120,000 lightning strikes in the space of 12

hours from 6pm last night to 6am this morning. Here's those storms as

they worked across the Channel. Many across the south saw a welcome drink

of rain before the show was moved off. The best of the sunshine in

East Anglia and the south-east, most fairly cloudy. We got outbreaks of

rain at the moment, northern England into Northern Ireland, southern and

western Scotland. These areas wettest throughout bank holiday

Monday. But we will season breaks in the low cloud across parts of

Sunderland and into the Moray Firth. If you get them, a bit of sunshine,

up to maybe 18 degrees. Foremost across the eastern coast, cool and

cloudy. Rain across northern England and northern Wales, but in the

afternoon some of the showers could become heavy and thundery. We could

see the cloud breaks lift the temperatures, 23 or 24, and across

East Anglia we could see some storms to finish the day. Tonight, drier

and quite. Still see some rain and drizzle mainly to the north of

Scotland. It should not be a chilly start tomorrow morning, 10-13. There

is a change on the way into Tuesday with rain across Northern Ireland

through the breakfast period, that then works across parts of Scotland

through the morning and early afternoon. A rumble of thunder here,

the same too over northern England. Across the south-west much cloudier

and brighter. Cooler elsewhere but it will feel very pleasant enough

sunshine. As we go into Wednesday, a ridge of high pressure building so

if you are in the half term break at the moment there is some good news,

Wednesday and Thursday looking dry. Not quite as hot as the weekend but

the sunshine overhead not as strong as it was.

It's Monday, it's 10 o'clock - I'm Victoria Derbyshire and we're

The head of the general election in ten days' time, you have been

telling us who you trust most when it comes to national security.

I don't think the guy that whats to cosy up with the terrorists

if the guy to defence us against the terrorists.

What really annoys me about the Tories and the Tory media,

the day after Manchester, it was there, Corbyn has

Ukip once more integration and a ban on the burqa. To cover your face and

to be told to do that, that is anything but emancipation for

women... If you are told to that I agree with you but many women out

there choose to do that. The NHS and social care is an issue you have

been saying will affect how you vote on June the 8th. I am glad Theresa

May did a U-turn, but it's time you scrapped that policy altogether,

went back to the drawing board and started again, talking to people who

understand it. I think the policy is fair, protecting ?100,000 I cannot

see what is unfair and I would like to see what the Labour Party would

do. Throw magic beans at the problem, I don't know. We are the

only ones who have set out a credible financially solvent way of

dealing with this issue. Emily has spent her whole response to the

gentleman's question not setting out Labour's position. We have costed

manifesto... Emily... You have no costings in your manifesto

whatsoever. Where is the ?8 billion you claim you will put into the NHS

going to come from? You haven't even tried. We will talk about Brexit and

housing with our audience and politicians, and you can get in

touch this morning. Here are the details.

We do need to know why you are Mr Dunstable. Isn't it obvious? What

was that? I missed that. Two years ago I went up for Mr Bedfordshire, I

got a call and applied, I have done charity stuff in the local area and

I won it so I am now up for Mr England. Whoa! We have never had a

Mr Dunstable on the programme and we are very happy. We will talk more

about general election issues in the next hour, before that a summary of

the news with Joanna. Thank you.

The security service MI5 is to hold an inquiry into how it dealt

with information from the public concerning the bomber.

Authorities were warned about Salman Abedi's extremist views

on at least three occasions but failed to stop him

Police say they've arrested a 23-year-old man in the seaside

town of Shoreham-by-Sea near Brighton in connection

with last week's Manchester terror attack.

It brings the total of people arrested over the attack to 16,

A police guard remains in place at the address.

Officers are also searching properties

British Airways says it promises to run a full long-haul schedule

at Heathrow today although some short haul services

The company is facing paying out millions of pounds in compensation

after the failure of its computer systems led to widespread

disruption over the weekend, with over 1,000 flights cancelled.

Customers have expressed frustration over a lack of information.

More than 200 drivers a day have been caught using their mobile

phones in the month after the law was changed to bring

According to figures obtained by the Press Association,

that's the equivalent of one offence every seven minutes.

The penalty for using a phone while driving doubled to ?200

New drivers now face losing their licence altogether.

Police in County Down say a lone gunman was responsible for shooting

a man dead in front of his young son in Bangor.

The 35-year-old father was approached in the car park

of a Sainsbury's supermarket and shot several times

Officers have called it a cold-blooded murder.

Japan has lodged a protest after North Korea fired a missile

The Scud missile, which was launched from

North Korea's eastern coast, travelled around 280 miles before

crashing into the sea near the Japanese mainland.

Steven Finn, Toby Roland Jones and Liam Dawson come into the side,

with England already having wrapped up the series win.

To tennis and Britain's Aljaz Bedene is under way in the first

He's up against American Ryan Harrison.

Huddersfield are looking for promotion to the Premier League, and

much worth ?170 million to the winner. And a spectacular crash at

the annual Indy 500 race in the US. Dixon elided with Howard at 178 mph.

Luckily both drivers walked away with Dixon suffering a slight ankle

injury. That's all Good morning, and welcome back to

Dunstable. This morning we have talked about security, the NHS and

social care. It is almost a year since the UK voted to leave the EU,

setting off a chain of events which have led to this general election,

and talk about Brexit dominated the early part of the campaign.

We will leave the European Union, and take control of our money,

take control of our borders, take control of our laws.

Only Labour will negotiate a deal that preserves jobs,

access the single market, and preserves rights and access,

not plunge our country into a race to the bottom.

In June last year, we voted for a departure, but we did not

So I want you to have your choice over your future.

My message to people in Scotland, whether you voted remain

or to leave, is to vote SNP to strengthen our hand to get a deal

that does not sacrifice Scottish jobs and the economy.

Ukip goes into this snap election determined to hold the government's

We will act as the government's backbone in these negotiations.

We are pledging to put Wales at the heart of the negotiations

to leave the European Union, so that the final deal reflects

Our election manifesto will not only include a ratification referendum,

but it will make very clear that one of the options on the ballot paper

is precisely the option to remain in the EU,

Is it? Let's hear from the voters today. Good morning. Hello, I am

Wendy from Milton Keynes. We will be voting Ukip. I do feel that because

there are 1 million people more immigration coming into the country

every three to four years, the population growing so fast, they

keep pushing the pension age up for everyone, and they keep saying it's

because people are living longer but in actual fact I think the real

reason is because of the out-of-control immigration into the

country. Does Wendy have a point? Not to me she doesn't. The day after

the Brexit vote I felt like I had been punched in the gut and 11

months later I feel exactly the same. I am an immigrant, I have been

living here for 27 years. Since then I have been told to go back to

Dublin, I have been told you are not the kind of immigrant we want to get

rid of. I'm not sure which was worse to be frank. I'm told I'm not

committed enough to this country because I haven't taken British

citizenship despite the fact I employed people. Wendy, is it all

right if Liz stays in the UK? Of course, we want immigration but we

need to keep control of it because, you know, we just... The country

will run out of money in the end and we won't be able to... I'm doing my

best to pay my taxes, Wendy, and I'm employing people who do that too.

Brexit is happening whether you like it or not, Liz. I hope not, but I

will vote Lib Dem. If the people who voted Brexit think they are so

right, I don't understand why they are so scared of having a vote on

the terms. Let's have a show of hands. Do you want a referendum on

the final Brexit deal? Again, this is totally unscientific, but that is

a majority. I know you are not all Lib Dem voters in this room. The

audience is balanced, but that is interesting. Somebody said yes? You

want a final say on the bike to deal? -- on the Brexit deal. Yes.

That is the job of the politicians, but it should be backed by the

people. And the vast majority of people should support it. Who

doesn't want another vote? Yes. I campaigned for Brexit and I did so

quite successfully in Stoke-on-Trent. I am a lawyer. The

idea of Jeremy Corbyn negotiating a Brexit or engaging in Brexit fills

people with terror. I think Theresa May is the right person to negotiate

a Brexit. Also, she is the right person to say she has the courage to

walk away. If you look at the Labour Party manifesto, they say they won't

leave unless they got a good deal. That is giving in your best car

before you have played it. After we saw the change of heart over her

holding a general election, the change of heart over raising

insurance for seven point people and the change of care over social

policy that if Theresa May is leading the Brexit negotiations, if

she comes under a bit of pressure, she might fold? I think Theresa

May's primary concern, like the majority of the Conservative Party,

is to do the right thing. Sometimes you have to test policies, but if

you're wrong, it's important to have the courage to say so. And trim it.

Not necessarily a U-turn. I am Jeff from Bedford. I have voted

Conservative all my adult life and this is the first time I can't do

it. Why? I can't stand Theresa May as a person. There is something

about her I don't like. My question to the Conservative gentleman is,

after calling the snap general election after we have started

Brexit negotiations, realising that you can't get a good deal, have you

called this snap general election and have you created a manifesto

that is marginalising the people who would normally win your election to

purposely lose this election so that you hand over Brexit to the Labour

Party, who then have to deal with it? It is all too superficial. In

terms of conspiracy theories, that is one mother! But in a few years'

time, Labour will not have a good deal and the Tories will come back.

Let me introduce the politicians. The audience is balanced to

represent a fair proportion of people voting for each party as well

as some undecided voters. Also with us is Dominic Raab, former justice

minister for the Conservatives, Emily Thornberry for Labour on

foreign affairs, Dick Newby, leader of the Liberal Democrat group in the

House of Lords, Don Mickelson is the SNP spokesperson on culture, media

and sport. Suzanne Evans is the deputy chair of Ukip and Will Moy is

from Full Fact. Which is an independent fact checking charity.

It is our job to pay attention to what everyone is saying and tweet

when we have checked the facts. The Brexit Bill, there are all sorts of

figures that Britain will apparently have to pay when it comes to leaving

the European Union. What kind of figure might we be looking at? The

figures we have heard have ranged from 20 billion to ?100 billion.

They are all back of the envelope calculations at the moment. They

would be worked out in a political negotiation between us and the rest

of the EU. The logic underneath it is that the EU is committed to

paying for things which the UK also signed up for when we were members.

The argument is about how much of that is now our responsibility. The

UK Government seems to expect that we are probably in for some of it,

but how much is a political fight. Dick Newby for the Lib Dems, where

would you find the money to pay our Brexit liabilities? Well, Brexit

costs the country. We will be poorer as a country if we leave and if we

left without a deal, it would be catastrophic for some sectors of our

economy. So in this part of the world, Peugeot has a big plant. If

we found ourselves without a deal and with tariffs on all the goods

going back and forward making those vehicles, the impact would be

disastrous. How would you pay our Brexit liabilities? Well, the Brexit

liabilities, compared to the overall costs of Brexit, are relatively

small part. But where would you get the money from? As we have

discussed, we believe the chance of getting a deal which is better than

our current position is as near zero as makes no difference. Therefore,

the people should decide. You are not going to answer the question. If

we get no deal, we revert to trading on World Trade Organisation terms.

And if there are tariffs, that is a windfall to the Treasury of ?12

billion. We would be quids in. You're assuming the economy would

collapse. Even the Financial Times this week has had to report that

investment into the UK has not fallen as a result of Brexit. This

scaremongering must stop. People voted for Brexit and it is time the

Lib Dems got behind it. It would mean a ?12 billion windfall to the

Treasury. It could be 50 or 60 billion or 100 billion. Dominic

Raab, where will the government get the money? If this was a legal

liability, we would pay as we are a law-abiding nation. Theresa May says

in her manifesto that the government would make a reasonable contribution

and come to a fair settlement. This is an open political posturing

exercised by the EU. Of course, there are mutual areas where we

might want to contribute because their mutual interests. For example,

in terms of dealing with the migrant crisis in the Mediterranean, or

making sure we contribute to important law enforcement issues.

But the bottom line is, someone said these Brexit negotiations will be

crucial. They will affect how much revenue we have to put into public

services and in just ten days' time, we have the choice between two

people who will ultimately lead those negotiations. Imagine that

negotiating room in Brussels. Jean-Claude Juncker, Angela Merkel

are the, some tough cookies. Who do you want going in there to leave

these negotiations, which are going to be tough, and take Britain

forward? Donald Trump, somebody said! We can't hear you if you are

not on the microphone. My name is Shahid Khan. I work for a global

insurance company with offices across the continent, so I have some

understanding of the implications of the UK leaving the EU. Dominic, as

to your point about Theresa May, didn't Jean-Claude Juncker call her

deluded not long ago? Let's not go down that path. He made all sorts of

unsavoury remarks. And she said, I am not going to be bullied, and he

apologised for those remarks. That is what you get with a tough leader.

Sir, which party do you trust? I would prefer to have Keir Starmer

leading the negotiations. He is the Labour shadow Brexit negotiator. Let

me hear from Emily Thornberry. What is Labour's Brexit policy? Our

policy is that we want to have the same economic benefits outside the

European Union as we had within the European Union. We are leaving and

we need to remain close. We have two priorities. The first priority of

any government is the safety of its citizens, and the second is the

economy. We are talking about people's living standards and jobs.

Never devoted to be poorer and never devoted to lose their job, whether

they voted to leave or remain. Those are our priorities. There is a lot

of personal nonsense coming out of Dominic here, but you said it

yourself that Theresa May has shown the Europeans that if you put

pressure on her, she was way. But Jeremy Corbyn, whatever people say

about him, they know he is a principled man. When he says he will

do something, he will do it. Where would you get the money? It depends

on the liabilities. We own a lot of infrastructure within the European

Union, so we could set that off. The gentleman behind, you run a

business. As a small business owner who sells within the Common Market,

I must face the fact that the Conservatives' hard Brexit tariffs

will make me uncompetitive and destroy my life's work creating

employment and a growing business for a vote for Labour, on the other

hand, with their request to pay a bit more tax, will mean that my

effective total tax rate will go up to 90%, hardly an incentive to work

16 hours a day with no holidays. From my despair, it was suggested to

me that I transfer my business onto the continent, where my customers

will still see us as competitive and I will pay a lot less tax. Can the

politicians suggested reason why as a sane person, I should not follow

my advice and transfer my business to the continent? Is this serious?

Absolutely. I am now in the final stages. I have already become

nonresident. As far as I am concerned, this will destroy my

life's work, so I have no choice. How do you feel about leaving the

UK? I have worked abroad many times. So with the deepest despair, because

I am English and I want to be here, but I can't survive. John Nicolson

from the SNP, having heard Michael's story, his plight, what would you

say? I have spent a bit of time in Germany recently because I sit on

the House of Commons select committee and reordering the Brexit

report. The thing that senior German politicians say consistently is how

chaotic the Conservative government ministers here are in terms of

preparation. David Davis turned up to a House of Commons select

committee and said he hadn't priced the cost of leaving for the UK. So I

think we will get a very tough Brexit deal which will be terrible

for the UK. And the reason Theresa May is holding this election now is

because she wants a silenced opposition because she knows that

when we know the details of Brexit, people are going to be furious. Let

me have a quick word about immigration. Suzanne Evans, Ukip

want to bring down net migration to zero over the next few years. When

one person leaves, you will let one person in? That is not how it works.

It is about balanced migration. It is about giving our country than to

recover and our public services time to recover. Over a five-year period,

we were hammered approximately the same number of people leaving the

country, between 250000 and 300,000 a year, and the same coming in. So

we will still invite to Britain up to 300,000 people a year. And we

will choose the brightest and the best and the people with the skills

we need and the people who contribute to the economy and can

look after themselves. It is the kind of thing that Labour politician

Frank Field has been talking about for years. But if Britain needs

surgeons... Then we will bring insurgents. -- we will bring in the

surgeons. So you will not have to allow someone to leave before you

bring in foreign surgeons? What about fruit pickers? What about bar

staff? These are jobs that British people can do. At the moment, there

are not doing them because they are being undercut in terms of wages.

That is nonsense. This country needs immigration. Particularly in

Scotland, we have a population that has always welcomed immigrants. One

of the advantages of Brexit for Scotland would be that we could set

our own immigration policy. Let me ask. Dick Newby from the Lib Dems

and Emily Thornberry from Labour, the latest net migration figures are

240 8000. Is that about the right level for you? I don't think the

target is the point. The point is what the economy needs, and the

economy needs doctors, nurses, people working in the horticultural

sector. So it could be more or less than that depending on the economy.

Emily Thornberry of Labour, 248,000, is that the right level for you? I

think the country is fed up with politicians putting forward

arbitrary targets and then failing to reach them. They are fed up with

being lied to about this. We are leaving the European Union. We will

need fair rules and managed migration. We have to balance the

needs of our economy with the needs of our communities. Of course we

need to have immigration. Of course we need to have fair rules.

Dominic Raab, which Europeans are you going to turn away to bring down

the migration to tens of thousands? No single nation. In the last year

we have seen migration come down by 25%, we are starting to get a grip

on it but Brexit creates the right opportunity for controlled

migration. There is a huge area between open-door immigration which

we had under the Labour Party, and closed door migration. Stop that,

I'm not going to let you make things up. We need flexible, sensible visa

arrangements so we get the workers we need. What we are not going to

bring in is wholesale, cheap labour. That is the balance. What doesn't

make sense to some people is that you've always been able to control

immigration from outside the European Union but that's not down

to the tens of thousands either. Maybe you cannot do it? We have

already got in the last year alone net migration down by 25%. We are

introducing stricter access to housing and the NHS. Brexit creates

a huge opportunity, not just because of the volume coming from the EU but

also because of the rules. Let me bring you Will Moy from Full Fact.

Picking up the point Wendy made about the pension age. People who

immigrate tend to be young so they are probably not the ones

responsible for why the pension age is going up. You often get

immigrants coming in after they have received their education, working

and then going home as it were to be older. And much less likely to apply

for benefits than people born in this country. This is where it gets

more complicated. There have been lots of studies and there is no

simple answer to that, it is hard to measure. Most say the overall impact

on finances is small, probably around a penny in the pound, and

it's good for the economy, we probably end up with slightly more

money than the Government spends. I am a GP. Your biggest risk is not

immigration it is actually emigration, doctors and nurses are

leaving the UK to go to other countries. I am from west London.

Picking up on one of Dominic Raab's points, the opportunity for visas

also allows for the opportunity to control people coming in and out.

Also safeguarding people as a mechanism for exploitation, because

I see myself in London walking around, I often wonder if there are

quite a few people who are falling through the gaps of society. I think

that is something opening up the debate and it's a worthwhile point.

Gentleman over here. My name is Taylor and I'm a student at

Edinburgh. The Lib Dems want to have another referendum on the EU but I

think we should have another referendum on independence because

Scotland has obviously decided it wants to go down a different path to

the rest of the UK and I think it is our democratic right that we have

that choice to make a decision whether we choose to go down the

anti-immigration isolationist past or open ourselves up to the world

because they are our closest friends and we need to work with them to

create peace and prosperity in this world. Thank you. Let's talk more

broadly about the economy in the UK. I am a British Palestinian, a

small-business owner in Luton. I want to take up the the Tories have

been using the things about Brexit and just isolating it from

everything else in the economy. The real fact is when you vote in this

election and you are thinking about Brexit, you have to relate it to how

this country will be. Do we want our NHS funded? Do we want schools to

teach our children? Do we want a system where we are going downhill?

In the 1920s, Roosevelt introduced a new deal. They didn't have money

because they were in a worse state than our country in the 20s, but

they invested and the Tories are going on a downward spiral. So would

you be happy to see for example Labour are promising to borrow ?250

billion over a decade to invest in infrastructure, you would be happy

to see that added to the borrowing because you think it is a price

worth paying? The price you pay for growth in the economy is having

better wages, better investment, having the money to finance schools.

Emily, how much would the economy grow if you invested 250 billion

pounds over a decade? That is hypothetical, I cannot tell you, but

I can tell you austerity is not working. Did you just... 250 billion

plucked out of the air? We have to have another way. Whites 250

billion? There must have been some kind of modelling. Of course, we

looked at where we need to invest in particular, and we said we would

have a fiscal rule book looked at by the Office for Budget Responsibility

and make sure when we are investing in the economy that is resulting in

growth so that we could cut back on our debt. And over the period of

parliament we would start cutting back on the deficit too. In the end

there has to be another way than this. We cannot just carry on with

this decline. Thank you. Dominic Raab, what is the current national

debt? I tend to think in terms of the deficit. Off the top of my head

I'm not sure. It is 1.7 trillion. What was it when the Conservatives

came to power in 2010? I don't know. It was 1 trillion. Are you shocked

that after seven years of the Conservative government you have

added ?700 billion to the country's debt plan? Luck can I answer your

question or are you just going to carry me? Until you control the

deficit you will not get the debt coming down. We understand that. I'm

not sure everyone knows how this works. You may. We have got the

deficit down. Three million new jobs created since 2010, and income

equality is lower than it was in 2010 so all of this pessimism about

going to help in a handcart... We have had an uptake in inflation but

the Bank of England expect it to come down next year so we have made

huge progress. The deficit will be paid off by next year, did you say?

No, I said debt starts to come down from this year, from next year. No,

it is projected to go up. The deficit has come down 252 billion.

We inherited the worst budget deficit. Do not go backwards at this

election. Go forwards. That's nonsense. That's very childish.

Excuse me. The last administration, the last Labour Administration,

wasn't it the Chancellor left a note on the table saying "No money left"?

We have got to have somebody who knows how to balance the

cheque-books and also I get it, we have got to have investments, we

have also got to know where we are spending money that will make us

money at not just spend it without having any return. Good morning. We

cannot hear you if you don't have a microphone. I am Marion, I'm

retired, I am chief childminder to the family. I want to say, if things

are improving so much under the Tories, why are so many people using

food banks? APPLAUSE Do you want to respond to that? Like you said about

food banks, also like you said, you are the main child carer, this is

what people have to do. If it weren't for our parents, like my

children's grandparents, we wouldn't be surviving. If it wasn't for their

help, you know, you look after your kids' kids, so you are, you know...

This is... Some people think life is really tough under the

Conservatives. In terms of the food bank issue, I have studied the data

and the typical user of a food bank is someone who has a cash flow

problem, not languishing in poverty. That is what the Trussell Trust

says. The Trussell Trust would be outraged by you saying that. A lot

of people are feeling the pinch so we have taken 4 million of the

lowest paid out of income tax altogether. We have introduced the

national living wage, and we are trying to make sure we have got the

economy that creates the jobs and wages and make sure people keep more

of the money. You are telling the country on this programme that the

Trussell Trust, who deal with poverty, told you personally that

the problem with food banks wasn't people on the bread line but people

having cash flow problems? I'm dying to hear from them when they hear you

have said that. They keep data that they update quarterly and annual

leave on the reason people are coming to the food banks and that is

what I am siting. Enough! People are using food banks because their

salaries haven't increased. People are not able to save any money,

people are in crisis. People who are on low wages and benefits, having to

use food banks, do you think anybody in this country should have to use a

food bank? We are the sixth richest country in the world, it is a

disgrace anybody has to go to a food bank and use it there trying to

convince people why people are having to use them. I can hear Emily

Thornberry agreeing with the lady who has spoken now, but the IFS have

pointed out that if Labour were to win 40% of households would suffer a

significant cut to the income because of a cut on benefits you

would not reverse. Those people who are in work and getting benefits as

well will get a pay rise. We have got ?2 billion each year over the

five-year period. Are you lifting the freeze...? I am trying to answer

you, Victoria. Are you going to reverse the Conservative cuts? We

have money set aside to reform the benefits system and make sure we

stop cuts like we have talked about specifically, the bedroom tax, the

benefits cup, and the reason we have set this money aside this because we

need to look again at the benefits system and the unfairness that we

have heard spoken about today. Nurses should not be going to food

banks, people should not need to rely on food banks. We are one of

the richest economies in the world, this is not right. Will Moy from

Full Fact, what about the figures of people using food banks and the

potential relation to those on benefits and who have been

sanctioned? It is very hard to say in broad terms exactly why people

are using food banks, obviously it's because they need food at the

simplest level. There are about 1.2 incidents of people using them this

year. In areas where benefit sanctions go up, food bank use goes

up, when benefit sanctions go down food bank use goes down. That's not

to say it is all about benefit sanctions. We do have good evidence

that is part of the picture. The IFS when it looked at the facts Labour

would still mean the poorest 30% of households would suffer a

significant hit to their incomes, they sent with the benefits freeze,

cuts to child credits, 3 million working families will be ?2500 a

year worse off. How is that helping beat just about managing? We have

had to make difficult decisions but you have got to take into account

the dynamic affect on the economy of making sure you are firing on all

cylinders, creating jobs, improving productivity, and then letting

people keep more of their own money either through the national living

wage or the extension of the income tax personal allowance. We have seen

huge progress since 2010 but I don't pretend there aren't difficult

decisions. If you go to this childish wish list Jeremy Corbyn has

put out which is not funded, we will go back to the parent state of the

public finances in 2010, even worse. Is there anybody here who is not

going to vote in the general election in ten days' time? A

gentleman here. Not many. Hi, good morning. Can I speak? All of this

comes down to money. We are squandering our money by giving it

to foreign aid and Nasa. Are you going to vote? I don't know whether

I am going to vote, because it seems to me that no matter what party is

in government, they are squandering money left, right and centre. They

always have done. We are the only party going into this election that

work at the foreign aid budget and promise not to put a single penny on

that. The gentleman here is going to explain why he is not going to vote.

This is what I'm talking about. It seems like no one here is

encouraging me to trust what they are saying. All of you are bringing

up some valid points, I guess, but from my perspective, it's all about

who I think I can trust with the country. If I'm honest, Jeremy

Corbyn seems like a nice guy with some good things he wants to put in

place. And other parties have good things to put in place. But whether

it will really affect me personally, I don't know. I am not convinced by

anyone. And overhear? If you haven't got a microphone, don't interrupt. I

was originally thinking of possibly lending my vote to Theresa May this

time because of Brexit, but unfortunately because of the social

care things and her small coterie of people around her who brought out

this manifesto, I am so disillusioned now that I may decide

to vote for none of the above. Ladies and gentlemen, can I

introduce you to Helen Pankhurst, the great granddaughter of Emmeline

Pankhurst? As you know, she's the granddaughter of Sylvia Pankhurst,

leading light of the British suffragette movement. Hello,

everybody, thank you for being here and thank you for this discussion.

These are such difficult issues and so emotive, but I think the is not

to not vote, for all the reasons that I represent and with that

positive response you had, which is an epitome of why we need to value

how difficult it has been to get here. We are holding that baton at

the moment and we need to hand it onto the next generation. We can't

just say it too complicated. As individuals right now, it is a bit

like being in a jigsaw puzzle where everything has been strewn out there

and we are individual bits of that puzzle. We either don't form a

collective, we don't form part of the democracy, or our little colour,

our little values all slot in. And maybe we don't like the overall

picture, but our little voice in there is there. It's counted, it's

measured. So please, for the sake of the past, for the sake of the

present, for the sake of the future generations and for being part of

that collective, at one moment when we are asked to really be part of

our democracy, vote. I personally feel like either way,

it's a the dice. -- it is a roll of the dice. It is particularly

important that young people should vote. One of the great things about

the independence referendum that we had in Scotland was that whatever

side you went for in the end, we got a huge amount of voter registration.

Young people are motivated like never before. In my constituency,

91% of people voted. That is democracy in action. How does Andrea

respond to Helen Pankhurst? Firstly, where I am in harbour none with a

Conservative MP, it is difficult if you want to vote elsewhere -- I am

in Harpenden. In the referendum, your vote counted for something. I

hope one day, I can vote for a government of unity. I don't know

how bad things will get, but everybody has good points and I

would like to be able to vote for a government where we can really make

a change and really tackle problems. Can I respond to that? I think that

firstly, the points that have come out here about there being too much

point-scoring and not enough collaboration. ? Megabus is exactly

what I am trying to say. That is exactly what these parties need to

listen to. Down the line, these decisions affect all of us and I

think Parliament is at its strongest and most effective when we talk

across our geographical and political differences. I also think

it is the people who are least empowered who are least likely to

vote, and I think that perpetuate a cycle that is problematic. If you

feel passionately that your vote doesn't count, then look at things

like the Greens not losing their deposit. Gender issues, making sure

we have gender representation, making sure we do things other than

the one collective moment. Even having your voice at events like

this is powerful. Please, please vote. OK. We haven't got long left.

We are going to talk about housing in the minutes we have left.

The cost of buying a house in the UK has never been higher -

and so many of you feel priced out of the market.

It's estimated we need to build an extra 300,000 homes each

year in England alone to satisfy demand.

So what are the parties promising to do about it?

All the parties are promising to build more houses, as parties do

before a general election. But the Conservatives and Labour have failed

to meet their own targets in the past once they got into power. Some

quick views about housing around the room? I am Rosanna Campbell from

Edinburgh. I am 18 and housing means a lot to me. I became homeless when

I was 16, due to difficult circumstances. I found it really

difficult to get a house. I am now 18 and I have still not got my

permanent house, but I will get it this year. But I have witnessed

friends of mine who were younger than me and have not had any to

stay. They have been on the street. They have not got anyone to look

after them. What I want to ask you guys is, as a party, do you think

that is fair? Would you allow your children to be on the street and not

have anybody to support them? Let me get a snapshot. Go for it. Like I

said about affordable housing, a lot of it seems to be for investors

bringing in people. In Luton, we sold off a building to Milton Keynes

for their homeless. We are still got the same housing problem, so the

numbers don't come down there. Also, building on green land is an issue.

Let me hear from the guy behind you. I am a student in London and the

problem is with landlords. I feel they are buying more and more

properties and becoming richer and richer at our expense. It is making

it so hard for any student to ever be able to buy a house. It is a huge

issue. I see figure saying you will be 40 before you own a house. I am

20 now. That is double my age and I am worried about coming out of uni

with huge debt. What will I be able to do? Let's hear what politicians

are promising when it comes to building more houses. 30 seconds

each, Dick Newby of the Lib Dems. For young people, there are a number

of things that need to be done to make sure they are not homeless in

the way that Roseanne says. We need to restore housing benefit for 18 to

21-year-olds. And the state needs to give a loan to young people to have

a deposit for their first flat. Ukip say 100,000 new homes a year but

only for younger people? Young people need to be ever to get on the

housing ladder. Up to the age of 40, you are fine. You have 20 years. We

can provide up to 100,000 new homes a year that will cost less than

?100,000. There will be affordable. They are modular homes and they can

be built quickly on brown field sites where it is clear to

infrastructure, and we can also take the ?1 billion we will get back from

the European regional development fund to create factories to train

people to build these homes where the jobs are needed and then build

them where homes are needed. Emily Thornberry, Labour say 1 million

homes over the next five years. 2 million homes were built under 13

years of Labour. What will be different this time thes we mean

this. We have a manifesto that has been costed and we mean to build 1

million homes over five years, with 100,000 of those being affordable

homes to buy or rent. We have listened to the younger generation.

We are going to do something about rent controls so that people are not

exploited, and we will help young people coming out of university

because we see no reason why they should be up to their eyeballs in

debt. They should have a chance to set up their own families and not

have to wait until they are 40. If you are renting until you are 40,

when were you set up a family home? We have built thousands of

affordable homes since 2010. We want to build another 400000 by 20 20. We

want to support the councils and housing associations to build more

homes both for rent... You have no figures. Anyone can look at our

plant in the detail online. My parents were our first generation to

own a house. They only rented before that. I know how important this is.

One of the great tragedies was the right to buy scheme and what

happened to the cash. Both Labour, sadly, and the Conservatives failed

to invest that money and that was an enormous missed opportunity. It has

created the tragedy we now see, with people like this guy unable to buy

his own home. We need more social housing. Will Moy from full facts,

do you know how many houses we need to build per year to keep up with

demand? The best estimate we have is between 240000 and 250,000 a year. I

am so sorry, we haven't got any more time. Daniel on Twitter says the

Conservatives and Ukip will deliver the Brexit that was promised. We

will be completely out of the EU. Labour want half in, half out.

Barbara on Facebook says yes, the public should get a vote on the

final Brexit deal. Never trust a Conservative. They will make sure

their millionaire chums will be all right before the public. Graham on

Twitter says Labour left us skint seven years ago and with their

policies, they left the Conservatives to pick up the pieces.

Expect the same again. Another on Twitter says Labour care about the

many, while the Tories care about the rich and big business. Ladies

and gentlemen, thank you very much. Give yourselves a round of applause.

Thank you for your time. We are back tomorrow. Do join us then.