31/05/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

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Hello, it's Wednesday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,


A breast surgeon accused of playing God and carrying out unnecessary


operations on patients is due to be sentenced at Nottingham Crown Court


this morning. Paterson exploited me


as a person for his own ends. There were hundreds of female


victims. We'll be hearing from some


of his other victims later. Also on the programme -


the latest in our election On the picket line with banners,


it's just not me, sorry! . And Wiltshire Police say they're


hunting a "dangerous" prisoner - believed to be armed with a razor


blade - who escaped from hospital Welcome to the programme,


we're live until 11am. Any minute now Labour leader


Jeremy Corbyn is due to give a speech in London focussing


on the NHS and education - And a little later in the programme


we'll talk about a rise in bullying for online gamers -


if you've got expereince do get in touch - use the hashtag


#VictoriaLive and if you text, you will be charged


at the standard network rate. Our top story today,


police say a "dangerous" prisoner, believed to be armed with a razor


blade, is on the run after escaping Michal Kisiel, who's 30,


had been taken to hospital in Salisbury with a head injury


before fleeing from guards Police are warning the public


not to approach him. Greg Dawson is here


with more details. What happened? Last night Michal


Kisiel was found in his cell at HMP Erlestoke prison. They decided he


needed hospital treatment so he was taken to a hospital in Salisbury.


Police say they believe he overpowered two prison guards and he


escaped with a razor blade. They are concerned he is dangerous and they


are warning the public to stay away from him. If they see him to call


999. We have a fuse still images, they say he's around five or six


with noticeable tattoos on his neck. He was wearing grey tracksuit


bottoms, a blue T-shirt and trainers. The most noticeable thing


is he had a head injury. Police say he is not local to the area, he


doesn't have any money or a phone, so there is a possibility he will be


spotted by members of the public. Why was he in prison? He was


sentenced last year after he held a mother and teenage daughter at


knife-point in their own home and threatened them. He was sentenced to


five years at HMP Erlestoke. Police are concerned he might encounter a


member of the public so if anyone does see him, dial 999 and don't


approach in. Thank you. Now the rest of the morning's news. A huge car


bomb in Coble has killed at least 80 people and killed 350. It happened


in the diplomatic quarter of the city -- Kabul. Our correspondent is


at the scene and sent this report. This is the scene of today's attack


here in Kabul the Afghan capital. Police have cordoned off this area.


Nobody is allowed to go further than this. But, as you can hear,


ambulances and police troops are arriving to the scene, some are


leaving the scene. They are taking some injured people. SIRENS. You can


see this vehicle has taken people who are hurt. It is a chaotic scene.


It was a massive, massive blast. People tell me they haven't seen


anything like this in many years. As you can see, all the windows and


some doors are shattered. Nobody has yet taken responsibility for the


attack. But in spite of several demands from the international


community, the insurgents and the Taliban have not said yes to stop


violence in the holy month of Ramadan.


A 30-year old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder,


after the bodies of a woman and two children were discovered


The discovery was made by officers investigating reports of a fuel leak


Police say they're not looking for anyone else.


The NHS could have to raise an extra half a billion pounds a year,


if British pensioners living in other EU countries have to return


That's the warning from a health charity this morning.


The Nuffield Trust says the cost of treating them on home soil rather


than abroad could be almost a billion pounds, as


For many British pensioners it is the appeal of retirement


in the sunshine that attracts them to move to countries


But having the same health care rights as the locals


It's part of a reciprocal scheme which the UK pays around


That covers nearly 200,000 British expatriates living


But it's a deal potentially under threat when Brexit happens,


People, if they had to return from countries where they live


in the EU to here, retired people, could cost the NHS more money.


Beyond that we probably would need more hospital beds and more nurses


to give those people the standards of care they require.


Unless a deal is struck the trust says pensioners


If they will return to Britain for treatment it could cost


Last year, spending on the NHS in England was around ?102 billion.


The Nuffield trust estimates the NHS would need around 1600 more doctors,


nurses, and other workers to provide this care.


In response, the Conservative Party say protecting the rights of UK


nationals in the EU is one of their priorities


But the Liberal Democrats say this report is evidence that


Theresa May's extreme version of Brexit will be a disaster


for the NHS, putting huge pressure on hospitals.


Labour are yet to comment but have previously accused the Conservatives


For the first time, a British police force is to recruit people directly


to become detectives - without them having to first work


The Metropolitan Police hopes the scheme will fill some of the 600


detective vacancies in the force, and attract people with different


skills and backgrounds who might not otherwise want to join.


Abuse and bullying in the online gaming world is a growing problem


according to new research from anti-bullying


Of the 2,500 young gamers they surveyed, half had been


Here's our technology correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones.


For 16-year-old Bailey, video games have been a big part


of his life and were once an escape when he was getting


He enjoys pitting his skills against other players online,


but what he doesn't like is the abuse he sometimes


He first experienced bullying in games when he was ten and it's


If I'm playing a game and I score a goal, I've literally been


If you're being bullied at home, you come home and play your computer


and you are just getting more abuse thrown at you.


It's just going to put you off doing anything social.


The charity Ditch The Label surveyed 2,500 young gamers.


57% said they had been subjected to hate speech in an online game.


47% had received threats and 40% had had unwanted sexual contact.


What's changed over the last decade is that more and more games


are played online and that means young gamers are encountering


anonymous people from around the world and chatting with them.


That can of course, be very positive, but it also lays them open


for the kind of dangers we've seen elsewhere in the online world.


The anti-bullying charity worked with the online game


Habbo Hotel to research young gamers' experiences.


I think what's so shocking is the fact that it's


We had gamers telling us this was just part


Bailey says he has now learned not to let abuse get to him,


but he wants the games companies to do more to watch over


what happens online and to act to stop the bullies.


And we'll have more on that story later in this programme


when Victoria will speak to some young gamers who have


been at the receiving end of bullying online.


Olivia Newton-John has revealed she has breast cancer again,


25 years after recovering from her original diagnosis.


The Grease star has postponed her upcoming tour dates


after discovering that the disease has spread to her spine.


The singer and actress is undergoing treatment,


and expects to return to the stage later this year.


That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9:30.


Thank you for your messages already about bullying while gaming. This


e-mail says "I've been an avid gamer for years, bullying and harassment


is ever present. Where young children are playing 18 rated games,


ultimately resulting in them being exposed to the behaviour when


competition causes friction. However, the simple solution is to


join a different game session where it may be friendly, or to block


horrible people". "My 16-year-old brother is autistic and is often


bullied online for his speech impediment". And this tweet, "The


gaming community should be a place of togetherness, people who bully


others online should be ashamed, it is deplorable". We are waiting for


Jeremy Corbyn to attend an event where he will refer to the party's


promises on the NHS and education. You can see he's being introduced,


it looks like he's being introduced. You'll be there any second so we


will bring you some of his speech live.


Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -


use the hashtag #VictoriaLive and if you text, you will be charged


Let's get some sport now with Holly Hamilton,


and it seems football's best-kept secret will finally


We are just waiting for this to be rubber-stamped by the board today.


As we were talking about yesterday it might not be a popular decision


with some fans. He's faced so much criticism over the past season, a


season that saw Arsenal fail to make the top four in 20 years. But


remember they did beat Chelsea on Saturday to win the FA Cup.


Now, here is Jeremy Corbyn. Our NHS, our children's schools is anything


but strong and stable. Over the last seven years they've starved public


services who rely on those resources because the Conservatives have


chosen at every turn tax giveaways for the few over public services for


the many. Patients are suffering ever longer waits and crowded wards.


Those who need care are left without it. A and maternity units are


threatened with closure. Children are crammed into overcrowded and


crumbling classrooms. Schools are sending home begging letters to the


parents. It has is to change. Together, we have the power to make


it change on the 8th of June. Labour will invest in our people's schools


and hospitals. We will cut school class sizes not cut schools. Take 1


million people of the National Health Service waiting lists, not


add millions more. Ensure that people get the care that they


deserve, and guarantee the dedicated staff a pay rise. Another five years


of the Conservatives would be disastrous for our public services.


If they carry on as they are now, then by 2022, there could be 5.5


million people on the NHS England waiting list. 1.5 million older


people with an met care needs. 650,000 people crammed into primary


classes of over 30. Families left almost ?450 worse off her child as


the result of the Tories' plan to scrap free school meals to 1.7


million of our children. That's the Conservative vision for Britain.


Don't take my word for it. Last week, the IFF is made clear the


Conservative manifesto promises no new money to the National Health


Service, and a real terms cut in pupil funding for school. That


vision doesn't have to become a reality. On the 8th of June, there's


only one party that will improve our public services for the many, not


the few. That is the Labour Party. We can do better than this. Labour


will build an NHS and social care system for the many. We'll invest 37


billion into our NHS, and take 1 million people off the waiting list


by 2022. We'll invest 8 billion in social care over the next five years


and lay the foundations for a National Care Service to integrate


health and social care. Labour will build a national education service


and invest in our children's futures. We will cap class sizes at


34 five, six and seven-year-olds. Labour will provide free school


meals to all primary school children. The Conservative Party


will Take That away and replace it with a thimble full of rice crispies


for each child. In the fifth Richards country of the world it's


not acceptable to leave people languishing in A departments on


trolleys in hospital corridors without care at all.


We believe that those who can afford it should pay just a little bit more


to fund care, dignity and opportunity for all. It now gives me


great pleasure to introduce our Health Secretary, John Ashworth, to


take you through the details of our concerns over the National Health


Service. We will leave Jeremy Corbyn there, leader of the Labour Party,


reiterating his party's promises ahead of the general election. Cut


class sizes, from school meals for primary school children, take a


million people of NHS waiting lists, and the paper that he will reverse


cuts in corporation tax, and tax what Labour says will only be the


top 5% of earners. More reaction to come later on. Next this morning,


part two of our new series, election Blind dates.


Every day this week, we'll be bringing you a blind date


over lunch between two people with very different views -


will they come to blows or walk away friends?


Up today are Georgia Toffolo, better known as "Toff"


from the Channel Four TV series Made in Chelsea, and anti-austerity


One lives a champagne lifestyle, the other was once on the breadline.


So this is how they got on - and there is the occasional strong


There's an election on and people are talking politics.


So, what happens when you send two people with opposing


I'm, like, oh my God, this has been so long.


You see people that are sat there that can go and work


and choose not to, they choose to go and sign on, it angers me.


When people stand at the dispatch box and tell me there's


more money in education, I look around and I


Because it's not in my children's school.


How would I describe myself politically?


I'm Jack Munro, and I'm a food writer


And when I went back to work I couldn't work


I ended up in quite a shoddy personal situation.


It's something that never leaves you.


Not eating for three days in a row so you can feed your child,


or sitting opposite him, hoping he leaves some of his dinner


We've been texting my friend about fox hunting.


He's, like, belting, belting, marvellous.


It's the number one issue facing Britain apart from inheritance tax.


I'm best known for being on a TV programme called Made In Chelsea.


I'm very lucky, I went to a nice school and I live


But I'm not, I don't know, I'm not stuck up.


But when people do think of me, and also my name,


my nickname is Toff, which is, like, a joke


So people have so many, you know, thoughts about me before


I'm a member of the Conservative Party,


and I have been for about eight years now.


I can't comprehend why anyone my age would support a Labour Party.


I'm trying to remember what I'm like on a date.


I'm, like, oh my God, it's been so long, literally.


Yeah, good, fine, quite nervous, but hungry.


First things first, right, so, on the political spectrum


So, centre, left-wing, right-wing, I'm about here.


OK, so we're equally divergent from the centre.


Yeah, not horribly right wing, but definitely not centre.


OK, fine, we've established where we are.


I'm awkwardly wriggling out of my coat for a second.


I truly believe we should remain in the European Union.


And I got to a point where the weight of the decision


literally felt like it was entirely mine, so I thought, you know what,


I'm just going to leave it to people who are either more qualified


to make the decision, or think they're more qualified,


to do it, and I'll just go with the will of


Oh my goodness, but I think we're so lucky to have


Referendums are, like, political engagement at their highest.


I really regret it, I voted to remain, I wish that I'd have...


Enough other people voted to leave that you've got what you wanted.


I think it's a really positive thing for our country that we're leaving.


Every time I go eat something, or make a point at the same time,


I can imagine that our views on social


I think what the Conservatives have done in the past seven years,


with scaling back welfare payments, is overwhelmingly positive.


And their support has been cut left, right, and centre.


I've got friends who are in bed 23 hours a day, cannot


look after themselves, and have to rely on two separate


care appointments where someone turns up for ten minutes


Imagine being locked in your bedroom for 22 hours a day.


I completely understand, but this is where I think


No, that's the result of Conservative cuts.


There's only a certain amount of welfare that they


I watch television programmes and you see people that are sat


there who, you know, are clever, you know,


I think with any system, every system is open to abuse.


Until I was actually in that situation myself,


physically freezing, starving, heating turned off,


not eating for three days in a row, trying to top myself and my bathroom


because I didn't want to carry on, basically.


Yet, but does not and you also that some of the funding that could have


gone to you when you were really in need was going to people


I think less than 1% of benefit payments are fraudulent.


I'd have brought it, but I didn't think...


Yeah, but you're not going to own up to being a benefits cheat, are you?


Why watch benefit cheats, if you think that's the right term


for them, carefully, and not people who are avoiding large amounts


of tax, scribbling their money in the Cayman Islands?


I agree, but I think all of it needs to be watched.


It's not just, like, a one issue kind of thing.


I think a flat rate of tax is a lot better.


And you work really hard for what you earn.


If you tip over a tax bracket, it's as though the government


Do you think we all just need a certain amount to live on,


I think in this country, right, if you work hard


You don't agree that in the UK right now if you work your EXPLETIVE off


No, I know loads of people who work their EXPLETIVE off,


cleaning shops, cleaning trains, driving trains.


I also know people who've got their jobs through family connections,


you basically swan around drinking in private members


It's not a stereotype, I know these people.


And you think, why should the health care assistant


wipe their EXPLETIVE on 11 grand a year, and the guy


who was basically born into the banking role the earning


who was basically born into the banking role be earning


I don't think hard work and income are equivalent in this country.


And if I see, you know, when I look at my accounts,


if I think, oh gosh, if I earn more next month


I'm going to have pay even more to the taxman, it angers me.


Do you ever turn jobs down just because you don't


Of course not, but it doesn't make me think, oh, God,


I think we do all need a certain amount to live on.


And if you learn more you should contribute.


You see, that's where our political ideologies are so different.


So, tell me, what are your views on fox hunting?


I think if somebody came up with it now as a sport, and went, I know,


we're going to get a pack of dogs to chase an animal through


the woods, they'd be, you know, they'd be tried and sent


These foxes need to be culled anyway.


Because they're out of control in the countryside.


Come on, people like fox hunting because it's a chance to put


all the gear on and get on your horse and have a good


It's a great, old, British tradition.


But there are a lot of great old British...


Slavery was a great, old British tradition.


I just think that it's disingenuous to suggest that people are partaking


in fox hunting to help the farmers out.


But do you agree that, you know, in the democracy that we live in,


Theresa May is not wrong for putting it to the House of Commons?


You know, it's a free vote, all the MPs can vote on it.


People who vote on it, and I'd like to think


So, I read somewhere this morning the Lib Dems,


They were, like, sorry, that was mean.


But, they were talking about legalising cannabis.


For me, you know, smoking cannabis is an addiction.


It is definitely true that it does cause mental problems if you smoke


So, for me, I think I'd find it deeply distressing


I don't know, because, cards on the table, I'm


Yeah, stone cold sober, I was drinking a bottle


But I could go into my local corner shop and buy a bottle of whiskey


and the guy behind the counter would joke about how much I drank,


I think I would have done myself a lot less damage if I could have


Than downing a bottle of whiskey to go to bed.


You know, drugs are drugs for a reason.


I know, I'm not saying I have a spliff in the evening,


but I think I would've done myself a lot less damage.


What's your views, then, you said on security,


surveillance, the fact that, apparently, the government can hack


into our mobiles at any time, how do you feel about that?


If it's helping to keep us safe, I think, go ahead.


I don't think I'd want Theresa May looking through my selfies.


I don't think I'd want Diane Abbott being head of MI5, but, you know,


Quick, let's find something else we agree on.


I was mortified, the first time I saw the picture of her,


have you seen her Russell and Bromley shoes...


I nearly wore them today, actually, but they didn't go with my trousers.


I love that, you and Theresa May have got the same shoes.


Oh, my God, it's worse than that, we've got about four or five


I know it's awful for me to say that, but, it's a shame


that he is the leader of the Labour Party.


I think he was a very good campaigner.


It's great for me, as a Tory, I'm loving it, they're


getting away with murder, but, you know, in the Commons,


the standing party that's in power must be scrutinised and questioned.


And I worry Jeremy Corbyn isn't doing that.


I think my vote for Labour is for good Labour MPs who deserve this.


Have you got any other political heroes, historically?


I know, I was looking at your badge, and I thought, rude,


It's such a shame that I wasn't around then.


See, I take the opposite view of that.


I skipped school on the day of her funeral so that I could go.


Yeah, I went, yeah, amazing, amazing lady.


I'm what's known as non-binary transgender.


I was born a woman, and I'm a female, but I went through a phase


of taking testosterone to basically make myself more masculine.


I'm in a really girly phase at the moment,


so it's really hard to, kind of, like, explain.


It really is day to day, how you feel?


It's been a bit of an odd one when, like, with people and dating


because they've started dating, like, a really feminine version


of me, and then I wander downstairs one morning with,


like, a chest binder on, and, like, a suit and a waistcoat and a tie.


Oh, by the way, sometimes I like to dress up as a man.


Yeah, yeah, it's fine, it's, like, nine quid, it's fine.


And you're not horribly left wing, and I'm not horribly right-wing.


But, where we at now, have I moved you along a bit?


I've shuffled a bit more to the centre.


And actually, I must say, I hate to admit it, maybe


you have a little bit, because you said a few


things and I thought, wow, I've never thought of that.


If we go out again, we might end up somewhere in the centre.


Go and see my friends, and they'll be, you've changed.


Yeah, they'll be, like, what happened to you?


I feel like I'm sending a personal hero of yours.


If you could just put your arms over each other.


I didn't know what to expect, because I was, like,


super, super nervous, and, yeah, I had a nice time.


You said a few things that I'm a kind of, hit home a bit,


because I hadn't given some of the things you brought


So, it's quite thought-provoking for me.


Because I think often you can be quite ignorant,


politically, I think, and I think I'm guilty of that.


I've got friends were quite conservative,


They are, like, my Nan and her friends, something like,


So, it was quite nice for me to meet a young person


When I think about, I don't know, kind of, benefits, I think,


bearing in mind what you said, that's really stuck in my head.


Do you think you're going to come out hunting


I'm not sure I'm ready to go out on horseback.


And then go right some awful piece for the Guardian about how terrible


I like that, though, I like that about you.


You'll never find me on one of those.


See, I was going to say, I would take you to volunteer


at a food bank, but now you said a march, I'm going to


paint you a placard, and we can go out writing.


No, over the picket line, with banners, that's just not me.


Do you think, would you go for lunch again?


It is, will have a Made In Chelsea, lefty spin off, or something?


And they are friends, extraordinary! This USA's "Election blind dates is


genius is great. A viewer says "She is showing herself up here". Another


viewers a survey agree with Jack Munro. Another viewer says I pay


around 30 K and still play a lot of tax and National Insurance. I don't


think hard work and income are equivalent in this country. Nurses


would agree. Your posh guest is so far aloof of reality, this is


embarrassing. Another viewer says, much more enlightening breakfast


conversation than yesterday with Nigel Farage. That posh girl needs a


dose of real life. And tomorrow, strip club owner


Peter Stringfellow has lunch with TV historian and vocal feminist


Mary Beard...here's a sneak Later in the week we'll bring


you dates between Labour MP Jess Phillips and Conservative MP


John Whittingdale and Gina Miller who led the Brexit court case


against the govt and Godfrey Bloom Still to come, Ian Paterson -


the breast surgeon who carried out multiple unnecessary operations -


is due to be sentenced today. We'll be talking to some


of his victims in a moment. And we'll be discussing the reported


rise in abuse and bullying in online A huge car bomb in the Afghan


capital Kabul has killed at least 80 The huge explosion happened


in the diplomatic quarter of the city near the German embassy


during morning rush hour. Last month, the Taliban announced


the start of a major spring offensive, saying their main focus


would be foreign forces. Police say a dangerous prisoner


believed to be armed with a razor blade is on the run after escaping


offices in Wiltshire. Michal Kisiel, 30, had been taken to hospital in


Salisbury with a head injury before overpowering prison guards. Police


are warning the public not to approach him.


A 30-year old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder,


after the bodies of a woman and two children were discovered


The discovery was made by officers investigating reports of a fuel leak


Police say they're not looking for anyone else.


That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10:00.


We now know he is staying and the decision has been getting a mixed


response. We'll be getting reaction from Arsenal fans ahead of an


official announcement confirming at least two more years of Arsene


Wenger. And how's this for a welcome? The British and Irish Lions


have arrived in Auckland for their tour of New Zealand, receiving a


traditional Maori welcome. Their first four matches this Saturday.


And, he needs their help, Jack Nicklaus has been speaking out about


Tiger Woods after the former world number one was arrested on a charge


of driving under the influence on Monday. And it was a good start Andy


Murray at the French Open yesterday, he faces world number 50 in the


second round at Roland Garros tomorrow. Thank you for joining us.


A breast surgeon - accused of playing God and carrying


out unnecessary operations on patients - is due to be sentenced


at Nottingham Crown Court today, for intentionally wounding nine


Lawyers say it's possible that hundreds of Ian Paterson's patients


could have undergone surgery for no medical reason.


Some victims are calling for him to be given the maximum punishment -


Over a hundred more women have come forward since April to say he may


have exaggerated or invented cancer risks in them.


We can talk now to three of those women affected,


Bethan Waite and Lynn Rollinson, who're outside the Crown Court


in Nottingham, waiting for that sentencing,


Sarah Jane Downing is in Birmingham this morning, all three women


And in the studio is solicitor, Tom Jones, from Thompson's,


the firm who represent the majority of Paterson's victims.


Jane, Paterson has been found guilty of 17 counts of wounding with


intent. What would be an appropriate sentence for this man? Victoria,


it's so difficult. I don't know how we could ever really measure what he


did to so many people. And it quite that to a sentence. I think it has


to be the maximum but I'm not even sure if that's enough, to be honest.


He performed an unnecessary lumpectomy or new, wider you think


he did that? I don't know. He knew how terrified I was of the idea of


surgery, he knew how I absolutely didn't want to have an operation,


and then he spent a lot of time convincing me and terrifying so


that, well, I agreed, against my better judgment. He said that if I


left it much longer the lump was growing really rapidly. It would be


a huge problem. And it would be so much worse to fix and reconstruct if


it was about to get much bigger. So, have it done quickly and have a


smaller operation, all white and have something much worse. So I felt


the only option was to go for the smaller one. Of course. How


difficult has it been to try and rationalise the fact you had been


put through surgery for no reason? I can't rationalise it. It's too much


to be able to process. I've been distracting myself by thinking about


the campaign and starting the support group, and trying to do


something adjacent, rather than actually address it because I don't


know how to address it. Tom James, you represent many of his victims.


What do you want to see, what do they want to see when it comes to


sentencing today? I think in terms of sentencing it's part of the


closure process for those who have had their lives devastated by this


man. It's important he is punished in a way that is appropriately


dramatic. It isn't a light sentence, that's absolutely right, because


hundreds of women and men have been affected by his absolute callousness


against them. It is quite unfathomable what he did. What's


your view about why he did it? It's difficult to gauge. I wonder whether


it was money, he was being paid for these operations privately. Whether


it was him being in charge, he was apparently charming but bullying. I


think there's a whole host of factors, but whatever it was, he got


away with it for a very long period of time. Your firm is launching a


campaign called patients before profits, because you claim through


this case there is a divide between how NHS patients are treated and


private patients are treated. There is a very clear divide. The NHS in


these cases, they basically put their hands up, said there was a


mistake and suspended him as soon as there were suspicions. They have


paid compensation where it is appropriate and those cases are now


closed. The private health provider, Spire, simply hasn't done that. We


are now in a situation where they say that they rented him a room and


have no responsibility and they are not going to pay. We have a


situation in which the -- they advertised as being available, they


promoted him, the after-care was carried out on those premises and


yet they are saying they will not pay out for those people butchered


by him. What levels of compensation had been paid out by the NHS? It


varies depending on how the women were dealt with. It may be a futile


and, it can be potentially tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands.


There are women who have died as a result of his failures. The scandal


is huge. The issue has to be that the private health care sector has


to have the same responsibilities and deal with patients in the same


way as the NHS. It is true to say that you've had another 100 patients


come forward since his trial began in April. That's right. A lot of


people wouldn't necessarily have realised, you are treated by a


doctor, you wouldn't necessarily have thought it was him. Then you


see his face and you think, he did me. That's why we have people coming


forward even today as a result of this. Sarah Jane, I've spoken to a


number of patients previously who said they would like to see a public


enquiry into how this happened, how it was allowed to go on for so long


and affect so many women and men. Would you like to see that?


Absolutely. I think it really is necessary to know just exactly who


did what and why they turned a blind eye for so long. I think people were


probably colluding because they were making a lot of profit. But profit


was going to Spire health care. We want to know exactly what was done


and how and why. We know some people's bills were padded with


things they didn't have a have. There is a lot there to be looked


at, I think. How do you feel today as you awake this sentence? Very,


very emotionally on edge, very stressed. It's so difficult to know


what's going to happen. I'm deeply worried that it won't be anywhere


near enough. I deeply worried everyone will be really upset. It's


difficult today. I understand. Thank you for talking to us. Thank you


very much, Sarah Jane Downing and Tom Jones from Thompsons. That


sentencing is at Nottingham Crown Court today and we will bring it to


you and BBC News as soon as it happens.


Caroline Lucas is next to go for a drive with me in my white van. Hear


her talk about drugs, tears and bath before 10:30am. I suppose the Green


Party and the broader Green movement, I think we haven't done


nearly as well as we needed to do. That is that about 10:15am. Every


Wednesday we are looking at how the election is playing out on twitter.


Every Wednesday up until the election, we're looking at how


it's playing out on Twitter, with data crunchers from think tank,


Demos, who've been analysing millions of tweets since


Let's talk now to our two chaps from Demos - Josh Smith -


he's the techy one - and Carl Miller - he'll look


beneath the data to tell us what it all means.


We have been interested in opening up the Democratic Abeid, letting


people contact politicians who want to represent them. Then we found


there is 1400 candidates we have been following on twitter since the


campaign started. From conservatives, labour, Lib Dems,


Ukip and the SNP. We have been looking at the way they have been


tweeting and engaging people, but this potential for people to contact


candidates and say I am not sure about this policy, I thought you


were really good. To actually talk to people it only works if it is a


two-way street. What we are looking at is the candidates from those


parties who have been the best at replying to people on the platform,


who have got back to people's concerns, and we have a top five of


the top candidate from each party who was replying the most. Let's


have a look. So Richard Gadsden is the top reply,


the number one on the list. That's right, Richard Gadsden, the most


prolific reply of all, a Liberal Democrat candidate in Manchester. It


was that perhaps one of the reasons he replies so much is that he uses


Twitter to talk to his mates. He is outspoken isn't he? Very. We looked


at his tweets, if we have a second general election this year, I


getting I can stand, will have some sort of a breakdown. This was 11


hours ago, this is a tired candidate, is it not? I need a


break. I have no clue about anything any more. Exactly, this is Twitter


showing as the man behind the candidate, someone who has ran


ragged on the campaign trail, is exhausted, nervous, fighting for


history of being a politician. It is really showing us something you just


wouldn't see in the airbrushed PR releases of the past. And it has


definitely not gone through Lib Dem HQ Kamui thing. These are the best


at replying on Twitter. Dr Teck Khong from Ukip is interesting. He


is a recent defector from the Conservatives. You can see him


laying into his former party. What is interesting about the way he


engages with people, the replies here sending on twitter, is very


much toeing the party line. He sees it as a platform to get the hashtags


wants to get out there, to use the official party hashtags, and a lot


of his replies are just people saying thank you for the follow,


please vote for me. So much more formal. Much less personal. Carl,


Will Quince is the top Tory twitter. He does get into arguments on big


issues. Will Quince, our top Tory reply. But what really Bill -- Will


Quince has been engaging in the rough-and-tumble world of digital


politics, a world that is in the sense of poorer and more immediate.


It only takes a second to send a tweet. Candidates perhaps tired like


Richard Gadsden can also sometimes lose their temper and get stuck into


the issues and debates with candidates and members of the


public, many of whom disagree with them from all over the country.


Next, Jess Phillips from Labour, tell us about her. We have talked a


bit about disagreements, one of the interesting things about social


media com you get trolled. Especially if you are a public


figure. People occasionally lay into you. Jess Phillips is interesting


because she responds to those attacks, she tells people to get


back under your rock, she is very verbose. We looked at the tweets she


was sending that aren't retweets, and seven Dibusz under the tweets


she sent herself are actually replies to people. We will see some


hopefully. What does this tell us about her? That she is not afraid on


social media to show us a side of what her personality is. Looking


through her Twitter feed get an idea of what she might be like as a


person and that is another really interesting thing that people


haven't necessarily been able to do. Let's have a look. Hi Jess, are you


able to do anything to project this? OK, you can see her personality


coming through, clearly they have not been through Labour HQ. Full VSM


PE, John Nicolson is the most engaged. He is interesting because


he is the link between social and mainstream media. He often replies


to shows that cover politics. He is a candidate chipping in. This is a


tweet from your show itself on Monday.


This is representing how social and mainstream media is mixing in


strange and sometimes mysterious ways to both come together to


produce the kind of public debate we are having in the country. So which


candidates exist in a social media desert? We looked at people who are


tweeting a lot but never replying, never using this ability to directly


reach out to people and to respond to things. We had our top guns,


these are the five worst candidates. So I think the big difference


between the top and bottom five is the top five early understand


something about five don't, that social media is a new kind of two


-ish treat, a place to listen and a place to talk, as well as a place to


broadcast. That is probably a good thing. We did research back in 2015


in the height of the last election in the UK. We did a poll of social


media users and we found that over 70% of them thought the Democratic


debate was being in some way improved by what was happening on


social media, they could understand the candidates on the issues and


then you better what the party stood for. About half of social media


expected and wanted their candidates to be on social media. Replying to


candidates and engaging with constituents. That is the big


question between the bottom five. Why does it matter if they are all


not putting all our war on replying? As Carl said, they are potentially


missing an opportunity to engage with people straight into the own


timelines to respond to issues being raised. It is about whether politics


is a conversation or a pin board. Is it about politician shouting out and


trying to frame issues as they want or is this a channel that can be


used to wield power better too, for politicians to be a bit too listen


more easily and readily to people all over the UK and respond to the


issues and concerns we have got? That is the heart of what we are


trying to talk about today. You have talked about the abuse some


politicians get. A Jeremy Corbyn tweet last night didn't go down too


well with plenty of Conservatives. Yes, the reaction to this tweet


perhaps explains why people are reticent to put themselves out there


on social media, especially if you are in a position like Jeremy


Corbyn. Here we have a tweet. The response to this has been really


interesting, in that people have replied saying, surely we don't need


Jeremy Corbyn in order to further these people's, to unlock these


people's talents? So the potential for putting that message out there


and it being just laid upon and kind of attack is always there. It is


quite a dangerous potentially environment for especially


politicians. OK, we are going to show James cleverly's response and


some other responses. James cleverly is a Conservative candidate and what


he has done is effectively taken photographs of many other black


Asian and minority ethnic candidates and said for example here a


Conservative MP and a conservative assembly member waiting for our


potential to be unlocked by Jeremy Corbyn. All of these are obviously


sarcastic. Shaun Bailey, another candidate potentially. Said Kemal,


leader of the Conservatives reformist group. And so it goes on.


Gentlemen, thank you very much. You are


Jeremy Corbyn has been claiming the future of the NHS and England's


schools are at stake in this election. Let's talk to Norman


Smith. Mr Corbyn actually looking pretty relaxed this morning as he


was setting up what he claims are the risks patients and the elderly


will face from another five years of Conservative government. They have


produced this dossier here which they think details the fact that


something like 1.5 million people will be waiting for care if the


Tories win, and there will be 1.8 million people more waiting for


hospital treatments, and something like 650,000 schoolchildren in


classes over 30 or so. Labour by contrast, he says, would plough 37


billion into the NHS, 8 billion into social care, and really you sense it


is trying to crank this election back on the Mr Corbyn's favoured


territory, which of course is public services. Labour will invest in our


people, schools and hospitals. We will cut school class sizes, not


schools. Take a million people off the National Health Service waiting


list, not add millions more. Ensure that people get the care they


deserve, and guarantee the dedicated staff a pay rise. Another five years


of the Conservatives would be disastrous for our public services.


If they carry on, as they are now, then by 2022 there could be 5.5


million people on the NHS England waiting lists. 1.5 million older


people with unmet care needs. 650,000 people crammed into primary


school classes of over 30. Families left almost ?450 worse off per child


as a result of the Tories's plan to scrap free school meals to 1.7


million of our children. One of the tricks in an election is to talk


about what you want to talk about but not necessarily what the media


want you to talk about. I guess a lot of us this morning wanted to


press Mr Corbyn about that leak of the discussion paper, which was put


for Mr Corbyn, setting out some proposals on immigration, and one of


them was this idea of allowing unskilled workers in from outside


the EU. Now that is currently blocked, the so-called Tier three


access is blocked, but this is cash and paper was apparently put before


Mr Corbyn. Team Corbyn say it is not part of their policy but they


wouldn't really engage with what were their policies this afternoon.


In contrast, Theresa May, of course, when she was pressed about this


leaked document was more than happy to talk about it. Just listen. From


day one as Prime Minister, I'd been clear that I want to ensure we are


supporting and looking after British people, and if we look at people who


are living in the European Union, I'm clear that I want to see an


agreement where their rights are protected. Of course it's reciprocal


for EU citizens living here in the UK. That's why it's so important. We


haven't just given those rights to EU citizens here in the UK, we are


looking after UK citizens living in the European Union. I want to see


reciprocal arrangements so we can look after them. As British Prime


Minister I have a care for British people living in the EU. It is a


funny thing, we are now immigration is a massive issue but trying to get


detailed answers from either of the main parties about what they will


draft a freedom of movement has ended is proving a hopeless cause.


But I want to be seen to spell out the details, even though it is such


a huge election issue. Now the latest weather. I know you


are fascinated by my domestic heating arrangements, I am in limbo


at the moment, what's going on? Keep your heating off just now because


temperatures are rising. These are the current temperatures we have.


Look at that already, in London it is 17. Temperatures set to rise over


the next few days and we will see a fair bit of sunshine. This Weather


Watchers picture is from King frankly. -- Kings Langley. The


forecast for today is a bit of a mixture. Mostly dry with one or two


showers and some sunny spells. This morning we have just that, a real


variety of weather. In the south we've got this cloud and also some


sea fog in the English Channel and the Irish Sea. We've got the cloud


melting away across Northern Ireland and Scotland. A fair bit of sunshine


here as we go through the course of the day. If you are out of the


breeze it will feel quite pleasant. We'll see some brighter breaks in


the cloud and we will see showers from mid Wales down towards South


Kent. Some of that sea fog that is in the Irish Sea may lap onshore in


the far south-west of Scotland. It will not make a lots of inland


penetration. Still some cloud around with the odd shower. Sunny spells


across south-west England. Temperatures are beginning to climb


into the high teens. As we drift through Gloucestershire, if you


showers in the Midlands towards Kent. It will be cloudy at times but


will break and we will see some sunny spells or at worst, some


sunshine. Highs of 23-25. Somewhere like Glasgow could hit 19-20.


Through this evening and overnight will see cloud across Scotland,


northern England, Northern Ireland. It won't be such a chilly start to


the day. Fog in the English Channel moving in sure. Fog patches forming.


Then another weather front coming in from the West. That will drift


slowly south east accompanied by gusty winds. The heaviest rain will


be on the hills. At lower levels it's more likely to be drizzly in


nature but the cloud will build ahead of it. For England and Wales


we are at sunny skies and dry conditions. Temperatures tomorrow


could hit 26 in the south-east but we have fresher conditions coming


into the Northwest. Ahead of it quite a muggy feel and with so much


energy in the atmosphere we could see one or two thunderstorms


developing. Especially in the south-east and East Anglia. Behind


that, back to bright spells, sunshine and showers.


Hello, it's 10:00am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.


Ian Paterson - the breast surgeon who carried out multiple


unnecessary operations - will be sentenced later today.


He knew how terrified I was of the idea of surgery. He knew how I


absolutely didn't want to have an operation. Then he spent a lot of


time convincing me and terrifying me, so that I agreed, against my


better judgment. A new report finds that half of all online gamers are


believed. -- bullied. Well be talking to a victim


of online gaming abuse in a moment. We'll hear from Caroline


Lucas just after 10:30. What do you think sets you apart


from other middle-class, privately educated MPs in their 50s? LAUGHTER


That's a very good question! We will hear from Caroline Lucas at around


10:15am. Good morning. Now the latest news with Joanna.


A huge car bomb in the Afghan capital Kabul has killed at least 80


The huge explosion happened in the diplomatic quarter


of the city near the French embassy during morning rush hour.


It's unclear who carried out the attack.


In a statement, the Taliban denied involvement.


People tell me they haven't seen anything like this in many years.


As you can see, all the windows and some doors are shattered.


Nobody has yet taken responsibility for the attack.


But in spite of several demands from the international community,


the insurgents and the Taliban have not said "yes" to stop violence


Police say a "dangerous" prisoner, believed to be armed with a razor


blade, is on the run after escaping officers in Wiltshire.


Michael Kisiel, who's 30, had been taken to hospital


in Salisbury with a head injury before overpowering prison


Police are warning the public not to approach him.


Tens of thousands of expat pensioners may return to the UK


to use the NHS after Brexit - unless a deal can be done to let


them keep receiving care abroad, a health charity has warned.


The Nuffield Trust estimates the cost of treating them on home


soil, rather than abroad - could double to ?1 billion pounds.


At the moment, the UK gives around 500 million a year to EU


countries that care for Brits who have retired overseas.


That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10:30.


We will be talking about bullying and a report that suggests more than


half of online gamers are bullied. It's unbelievable.


Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -


use the hashtag #VictoriaLive and if you text, you will be charged


Good morning. We are still waiting for this to be rubber-stamped by the


board today. We heard yesterday that Arsene Wenger will be staying put as


manager of Arsenal for another two years. He's received a lot of


criticism throughout the season, so what do fans make of the decision?


Let's speak to an Arsenal supporter and vlogger. What was your initial


reaction when you heard yesterday? Not a surprise. I think it's been


the worst kept secret that he was going to sign a new deal. Not a


surprise, just wondering to myself why it's taken so long and has been


so drawn out, for them to announce it now. Not a surprise. We had seen


the banners, we've heard all the criticism. I think even Arsene


Wenger himself had been quite surprised by how much criticism it's


received -- he has received throughout the season. Did he


deserve it? INAUDIBLE The performances this season in the


Premier League and in the Champions League were, to be quite frank, very


poor. In the Premier League we lost nine games, we finished way off


Chelsea, and out of the top four, didn't make the Champions League. In


the Champions League itself, we suffered two humiliating defeats to


Bayern Munich 5-1. The team we were told we were moving to the Emirates


Stadium to become the new Bayern Munich. We realised how far away and


how far off we were. I think, compounded on that, the fact there


was no announcement, nothing was said, every time the club was asked


about what was happening, so I think people who wanted him out so it has


an opportunity to really do a lot of protests and lots of banners, and


trying to put as much pressure on as possible to try and get him to


leave. I think the indecisiveness and performances have all led to the


criticisms and have made it worse. Those fans aren't going anywhere,


there is still a level of anger, they aren't going to change their


minds, are they? Results change minds. Even at the weekend, the


victory over Chelsea in the FA Cup, I wouldn't say it's changed people's


minds. But it makes people feel a bit better about the club. There


were fans who were very pleased with the performance, not just the fact


we beat Chelsea but the manner of how we did it. If the season gets


underway and we are putting in good performances and playing good


football, you know, the fans will warm to that. However, the problem


is is that those fans won't go away. If on the other hand you have three


bad performances and bad losses, the banners and things like that might


come back out again. But, for me, is the big fear for next season. Thank


you. The British and Irish Lions squad have arrived in New Zealand


for their tour which takes in three Test matches. The first matches this


Saturday. How is this for a welcome? The Lions were treated to a


traditional Maori welcome at Auckland airport. The squad


responded by singing a Welsh hymn. Apparently they were practising for


weeks! That's all the sport for now, the latest in the next half an hour.


Thank you for your many, many comments about election on blind


dates. Broadly speaking most of you absolutely love it. "That Was so


good, we have totally different political views and we have been


friends for over 20 years". "Big Up for showing people can calmly and


politely debate with the other side". "Exceptional Blind dates


today, a stroke of genius". "This Is genius, opposing views being shown


respectfully and light-heartedly". "I Quite enjoyed this edition of


election blind dates, that is how to do civil political discussion". "


Brave to do the programme and you fought the blue corner well". "This


Is winding me up, I don't need this so early in the morning! " "It Shows


we have more in common than divides us, please keep this going after the


election!" OK, we'll try! Almost three quarters of young


people say they've been trolled while playing an online game and one


in two say they've either been bullied, sent hate messages


or threats by other online gamers. The figures have been described


as "shocking" by anti bullying charity Ditch The Label,


here's our reporter Chi Chi Izhundu. Young people are being bullied


online and it is in a place where they should be having fun


and engaging in different conversations with people


from all around the world. To explain exactly how


and what it is, let's leave Broadcasting House


for just a minute. Here we are on the edge


of our virtual city. It is places like this that exist


on online video games. In gaming, other users


can access this space, but it is also the place


where bullying and abuse can happen. This abuse is coming from another


gamer, and they can be absolutely Because they are hiding behind


the screen, they can say Luckily, here in my virtual world,


I can get rid of them. But for a lot of people,


that is just not possible. A new report shows the scale


of bullying young people face when it comes to online gaming


and how widespread it is. The charity Ditch The Label spoke


to 2,500 people aged between 12 and 26 and found they were regularly


subjected to hate The report also found the problem


is exacerbated because a lot of the virtual games are based


on high levels of They also found that seven out


of ten young people say online-gaming bullying is an issue


that needs to be taken more seriously, and they want


more human moderators. The charity's aim is to bring


the gaming community together to stop malicious trolling


and bullying online. Let's talk to Daniel Moran,


who's 16 and received homophobic Zane Morris, a gamer who has


received racial abuse. Liam Hackett, CEO of charity Ditch


the Label who published this report. Also Aofie Wilson, a gaming


journalist for Eurogamer. Thank you for coming on the


programme. Tell us about the kind of abuse you've received. I'm 23 now


but this happened when I was 15, 16, that age range. I was playing online


competitively. Great environment to meet new people, have conversations.


But in one particular case I started to receive racial slurs. I had my


social media in my description. They didn't really bother me as such.


Then I started to receive torrents of e-mail saying that my account had


been reported for spam and for abuse and eventually my account got close


down and there was nothing I could do about it. Now, as someone who has


been a game of all my life, this obviously annoyed me but I had other


options, I could go out and play with my band, be with friends, there


were so many other opportunities. I worry for my nieces and nephews now,


the roles have switched, they are now whether you're watching the


cultural differences, gaming has exploded. Nowadays there is a lot


more casual gamers, people who wouldn't normally get involved and


now they are. I just really hope that the internet can stay safe with


them as well because they are the most impressionable, the people that


take the swear words and the racial slurs they hear on their headsets


and go forth and said. As adults we are less at risk but it is a worry.


Leon, as Zane says, it has exploded, so in that sense it is a microcosm


representative society. The more some people get involved, the more


abuse there will be, do we have to accept it? No. We see bullying as a


societal behaviour, it is a behaviour. We know that they usually


are experiencing stressful and traumatic experiences. In this


research we found that one in five had admitted to bullying somebody in


the game, and we had a lot of kids telling us that if they were being


bullying Orton pollute themselves or they were going something -- they


were being bullied themselves. We absolutely should not accept this.


This is a cultural thing. Gamers were telling us that this is normal


behaviour, they would go into games at expect to be treated this way.


Look at uniting this way. The unfortunate thing of this research


is that it is completely unsurprising to be. Yes, a lot of


people will look at this and say it is not bullying, it is just the way


it is. I think it is a cultural issue in gaming. Unfortunately it is


a very vocal minority, the majority of experience in my gaming has been


overwhelmingly positive but there is more we can do to make sure young


people especially aren't being desensitised to this kind of


language. It has very real impacts, kids were telling us it was making


them feel depressed, giving them anxiety, and we never people who are


being bullied off-line are more likely to play games to escape it,


and then if they are being abused on that as well it amplifies the


impact. Can I ask you what you think of this research from Liam's charity


that people who are doing the bullying online are often not always


being bullied themselves, do you buy that? I do. I haven't necessarily


thought about it with such depth as I am now, but me personally, I grew


up with my mum working long hours. For myself, gaming as an escape, not


escaping bullying but it was a way I could entertain myself and to myself


engaged for those hours. I also know I had friends who went through


similar things but they were not being bullied. We have grown out of


it. But without doubt sometimes you don't have anywhere else to put it.


These people don't have anywhere else to go out. There is definitely


a worry online. From my experience, a fairly visible person within the


gaming industry and my pocket of the gaming industry, so I find that the


challenging and engaging these people often you will find that they


don't really think that far ahead. And if they see their words are


having an impact, actually they will think more about it. What abuse have


you experienced doing your job? Explain your job. Iamb eight games


journalist but I am also quite visible on YouTube and I write a lot


of articles about gaming, hopefully celebrating games for the most part.


But people think that gamers look a certain way, I'm very aware I don't


fit that mould. As a woman, sometimes people think that you


don't quite belong there. So you get some misogynistic abuse but I


personally find it quite easy to let that slide. But I am very aware that


I want to make it clear to young women that they don't have to pick


it up with that. My best tools for dealing with trawls is humour for


one, but also disinterest will completely disarmed them as well. So


don't respond? Don't respond, or if they know they are getting the year


that is a win in their book. If I am ever playing over and watch and I


say, "No one cares, broken". That will shut them up. Here is a tweet,


anyone who has played Fifa online has been abused by some uppity


American five-year road. With all due respect, it is not news. That


someone who thinks it happening. This one says I am amused by the


lack of comments from the gaming companies who irresponsibly design


systems to allow online communication to take place during


gaming with zero monitoring. We are getting better at that actually. I


mentioned Over watch, an online game I play a lot, and Blizzard have done


a lot to tackle negative communities and environment springing up. That


is one way to curb IM better venue, the competitiveness that comes out,


but also they added a tool not long back that turned a derogatory


message into something completely different. Which people can find


ways around that but it means they are taking a stance on that


language. It is such an interesting discussion because of course the


games titles are a huge stakeholder in this and they have a jerky of


care to their users but what we are looking at is how users are -- a


duty of care. But if you say children who play 18 rated games, it


is their parents's responsibility on whether there child can handle


certain types of content and bullying. And that most online games


are competitive in nature. When that is the environment, there will be


trash talk. On that topic, there has technically been a huge shift in


gaming culture towards competitive gaming. There was a lot more focus


on cooperative gameplay, which I have a lot of memories playing with


my brother. The whole split screen side of thing is gone, everyone


against each other. Now you have almost a football type mob behaviour


where you have the key stars saying swear words. Tribal behaviour, in a


way. This e-mail from Brian says Victoria, I have a 13-year-old son,


an online gamer, a Facebook user, I have a feeling he is experiencing


some kind of bullying and peer pressure but he puts on a front that


everything is OK. I wish he would talk about it and not get angry or


keep it in. I dislike this new technology generation, it is


changing society. I always say it is so important for parents and


guardians to have fully open and honest relations with their


children. But this online life is very real. It is important to talk


about are just as you would off-line, talk about it around the


dinner table, ask what they are doing online, what they enjoy about


the internet but also we have the largest online support hub for


anyone experiencing bullying. They can speak to one of our mentors


anonymously and get advice and support. That is a resource for


anyone impacted by these issues. There are games getting better at


providing resources. Life is strange, when it dealt with stories


of suicide and bullying, at the end of the game it actually provided


websites the kids to check out. So I think games are aware now of the


reach they have, and also the difficulty is that a lot of their


players have. Though Di Stefano list rent in the message of telling kids


that if they are being bullied it is because the person they are


bullying, their dad could be beating up their mum, then and could have


passed away come you don't know what is going on in that young person's


life. The result is a root cause. I am not sure there is always a root


cause. No we have the data that says it is. OK. Some of it is so casual


though, that they don't even seem to know they are doing it. These nice


middle-class kids with nothing to complain about being vile online. It


is the anonymity that allows people to say anything they like. You get


some taunts meant in jest. I am not saying people who are doing that I


going through something difficult by people who are obsessively


perpetrating these behaviours, to the extent where it is unhealthy,


there is a lazy root cause. Thank you very much for a really


interesting discussion, let's hope it -- there was always a root cause.


Wiltshire Police say they are looking for a dangerous prisoner


believed to be armed with a razor blades. Let's talk to our


correspondent, Andy Moore. The latest information is that the


police perhaps think this was preplanned? We have just had an


updated press release from the police, and they are saying this may


have been preplanned, and he may have had assistance. So the more we


hear about this, the more serious the case becomes. We heard last


night he had escaped from hospital about 7pm last night. At the time,


we were told that he had given his guards the slip. Now we have heard


in fact that he overpowered his guards. Two guards was it? I am not


sure, but he overpowered his guards and made his escape. He was taken to


hospital for a head wound sustained somehow or other in his cell. So


there is now the possibility that the head wound was deliberately


inflicted in some way so he could get the hospital, and then perhaps


with some sort of assistance escape. We are now hearing more about his


background. The police and the Ministry of Justice won't comment at


all on his background. But in fact he was jailed for five years last


year in Luton for a terrible attack on a mother and her daughter. He


actually tied up both victims for eight hours, and he threatened to


kill the mother, holding a large knife to her throat. And we now know


that he has a blade of some sort with him as he is on the loose, and


police say he is dangerous, and there is a very large operation


underway to find him. We have been showing images of him but give us


the description and what the advice to members of the public is if they


think they spot. He is white, five tall with blonde hair, originally


from Poland. Of medium build with very distinctive tattoos on his


neck. He was wearing grey tracksuit items and the black T-shirt with


blue trainers. He didn't have any idea on him or any money, but if he


has assistance of course, that may not be such a big problem. The


advice from the police is not to approach, just call immediately.


Thank you very much. Next to Kabul, let's get the latest on that car


bomb that has exploded in the diplomatic quarter, killing at least


80 people and wounding 300 others. Our correspondence from the BBC


Afghan service, tell us what you know at this stage. The latest is


that we now no that about 80 people have been killed and 350 are


injured. Four of our staff have also had minor injuries, and


unfortunately we lost one of our support staff, who was a driver. Oh


my goodness, I didn't realise that, as well. What do we know about who


might be behind this car bomb? The Afghan president, he has been asking


that in the month of Ramadan there should not be explosions, let's stop


violence but nobody responded to that, insurgent group. This


particular attack will be difficult for the insurgents to take


responsibility because of the level of civilian casualties. This is


normally the case when civilian casualties are high. Insurgent


groups don't take responsibility for it. If it is the security forces


casualties are high, then the response is instant. Apart from


spreading terror, what is it that the insurgents want, ultimately? At


the end of 2017, they announce that this year at least, the Taliban at


least, announced they will be targeting foreign troops and


pressurising the Afghan government. So I guess it is that operation,


that think they are carrying on. They want foreign soldiers out of


the country? That's right, and we see evidence from that at the start


of this year, we have had one incident like this almost every


month. Thank you very much, thank you. It is half past ten, let's


bring you the latest news. A huge car bomb in Kabul has


happened in the diplomatic quarter of the city near the French Embassy


in morning rush-hour. It's unclear who carried out the attack. In a


statement, the Taliban in tick-macro denied involvement. Police say a


prisoner on the run may have had assistance in a preplanned escape.


Michal Kiesel had been taken to hospital before overpowering prison


guards yesterday evening. Police are warning the public not to approach.


Tens of thousands of pensioners in the EU may return to the UK to use


the NHS after Brexit, unless a deal can be done to let keep receiving


care abroad. The Nuffield Trust estimates the cost of treating them


on home soil could double to ?1 billion. At the moment the UK gives


around ?500 million a year to EU countries that care for British


pensioners. A 30-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder


after the bodies of a woman and two children were discovered in a flat


in Liverpool. The discovery was made by officers investigating reports of


a fuel leak in Toxteth. Police say they aren't looking for anyone else.


That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC Newsroom


Good morning. We now know he's staying put, a decision that has


divided opinion among Arsenal fans. We are expecting an official


announcement from the club in the next half an hour confirming that


Arsene Wenger will remain at Arsenal for another two years. How's this


for a welcome? The British and Irish Lions have arrived in Auckland,


receiving a traditional Maori welcome. They will play three tests


against the all Blacks, their first four matches on Saturday. He needs


our help, Jack Nicklaus has spoken out about his friend Tiger Woods


after the former world number one was arrested on a charge of driving


under the influence on Monday. It's been a good start for Andy Murray at


the French Open, he faces world number 50 Martin Klizan in the


second round at Roland Garros tomorrow. I'll have all that and


more in the next half an hour. This morning the joint leader


of the Green Party tells this programme she'll cry if the Greens


only return one MP after next In a wide ranging interview


Caroline Lucas also tells us why she believes some drugs should be


legalised and prostitution She joined me in an electric


white van for part of our van share series -


with different politicians from some In this interview -


which was recorded before the manchester terror attacks -


she also says talks should happen with so-called Islamic State,


but she's not naive enough to think IS will send a representative


to any talks. Let's start by talking


about your manifesto. You want to scrap


university tuition fees. And you want to write off


all existing student debt. We think it is wrong that young


people get saddled with this huge amount of debt as they are starting


in their working lives, and also that we think education


should be a public good, Our guarantee about tuition fees


would cost between 8 billion, according to the IFS,


or 11 billion, according to other aspirational estimates


that have been done. We would not be spending money,


for example, on Trident nuclear weapons, HS2,


the Hinckley nuclear-power station. We would say that people


with the broadest shoulders Why do you want to use the taxes


from low-income families to pay the tuition fees of wealthy


students, and ultimately to pay off We would not be addressing


our tax rises to people We have policies like the universal


basic income that would help people on the lowest incomes


and on no income. We say that we want a country


where we can afford good public services for everybody,


and those are the political We the fifth-biggest


economy in the world, and so it is up to us how


we make those choices. You are happy to pay the tuition


fees of wealthier students If they are wealthy, they will pay


more into the tax system ultimately. Yes, because they will pay


more ultimately through You want to give a citizens'


income to everybody. I am not sure you


are calling it that. We need to have a debate


about the future of work. That would be a payment


you would want to pay to everybody, including Premier League


footballers, property For people earning more,


like your football players, But there will be some people


who think that is just bonkers, because that will cost,


if it is 80 quid a week, You would also not be paying


lots of the benefits. It would not be on top


of existing benefits. You scrap existing benefits, 160


billion, it is still 140 billion, It will be a pilot, and combined


with more-progressive taxation. As a result, those people who do not


need it will pay more anyway, It guarantees basic


security to people. People might think this is not


the right answer, and that is fine, but at least the question


is being asked by us, how is it that in the fifth-richest


country in the world we have a situation where 4 million


kids are living in poverty, where people are dependent on food


banks, nurses, because they cannot have enough money to


put food on the table? In that context, it is right


to ask the questions. One challenge is


protecting the planet. You have failed to get people


talking about the environment. Nobody is talking about the green


agenda in this election. I suppose the Green


movement has not done I don't think the fault


is entirely ours. We launched an environment


manifesto ten days ago, and although we had some journalists


there and TV cameras, none of it cut through,


you would not have seen it on your TV screens,


so it is an enormous challenge. It feels as if the whole political


debate now is being so stifled We are not going to be


the next Government, I hope we will have some more Green


MPs who will put pressure on the next Government,


but what we can do is broaden the terms of the debate,


having the debate about how we cope with a future where fewer people


are going to be having the kind of nine-to-five secure jobs


that they might have expected Do you accept that voters do


like to know how things are going to be costed and need


a credible answer? Voters will be pleased


to know that somebody is thinking about the future,


about what the world of work Why do you think the loudest


anti-Brexit parties are plummeting I don't think it is as a result


of saying that we believe the people should have the final say


on the referendum. I do not think we are saying,


"Don't get on with it," but when you come back with a final


deal, does that go to Parliament It was the people that


started off the debate, and given the magnitude


of the decision that we are taking, given the fact that so much


of what we were promised has proved not to be the case, ?350 million


to the NHS, Turkey joining, the fact we are supposed


to the keeping the same economic arrangements now as we had


when we were part of the EU, all of that has


unravelled spectacularly. If people voted no to that final


deal, Britain would stay in the EU? Would you set a limit for the number


of immigrants allowed into Britain? We are standing up for free


movement, we would not The economy sets how


many people come here, and we think it is the most-precious


gift that people can work and retire and study and live and love


and learn in 27 other member states. It is amazing, and I feel so sad


that my kids now will not have the benefits that


I did from that. Should people who support so-called


Islamic State or become a member of Al-Qaeda,


should they be prosecuted? Previously you have


said they should not. Natalie once misspoke


on a BBC politics programme, but the Green Party is clear,


any kind of involvement in any kind of violence like that is utterly


a criminal offence and should be Talking is normally what gets


solutions, as it was in Ireland. It is hard to think


who your interlocutor is. So, yes to talks, but not to be


naive that IS will nominate You are happy for Green candidates


to stand aside in some seats if it is going to split the vote


and therefore potentially allow Is that not skewing


democracy somewhat? Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and no


party are coming together to say, come on, let's try to just be a bit


more savvy about this voting system, which we know is on course to be


handing, if the polls are right, How can we ensure that


different voices are heard, how can we put aside narrow tribal


interests just for once? It is a difficult thing


to ask parties to do, but there was a huge appetite for it


at a local level, including at It was not reciprocated


at a national level, but I still feel it was the right


thing to do. On your website you say


you are not a typical MP. What do you think sets you apart


from other middle-class, I think it is a combination


of being prepared to think the unthinkable as part


of the Green Party, I think it is willing to put your body


where your mouth is, the preparedness to take non-violent


direct action when other That sense of being prepared


to stand up for what you believe in without compromising


is relatively rare. We want an evidence-based drugs


policy, and what we have under this Government and the successive ones


has been an evidence-free policy. There is such an


ideological reaction. Even if it were the case to be


proven that a different policy could keep far more people safe


from drugs, it's not What we are saying is,


let's start with cannabis, let's start by making that


available, if you are over 18 The parents I have spoken


to in Brighton support this issue. It is one I have stood up


for in Brighton very strongly. They will be pleased that once


they are 18 their children can turn around to their parents and say,


"Look, it is regulated now, Many people under 18 are already


getting hold of those drugs, becoming addicted,


and because we have a criminal-justice system that treats


addiction as a criminal offence rather than as a health


problem, there is no way We believe, again,


a decriminalisation, both of the buyer of sex


and of the seller, is a way Would you describe


yourself as a feminist? Are you pleased we have a second


female Prime Minister? Only because I hate her policies,


but of course we need whoever is doing the policies,


I would rather more women Your most-expensive purchase,


not including a car or a home? I think I cried last week, just out


of exhaustion and frustration. If you only return one MP again


this time, yourself... I want Molly to be elected


in Bristol West, I want Vix Lowthion It would be brilliant,


and it would not just be tears because I am sad,


I would be heartbroken that we have not managed to get people


like them into Parliament, How much is the PiP disability


benefit? Hole I can't remember now. Is it ?80 from something like that?


It is about ?65. To be honest, that is a nice way of catching me out,


but the most important thing is to make sure that people with


disabilities are looked after. The most embarrassing thing you have


done when you were drunk? It is not necessarily when I am drunk, but I


figured people's names and faces. Do you sing in the shower,


and if so, what? I assume it is a shower


rather than a bath? We like our occasional


baths as well! My favourite singer


is Regina Spektor, I would try to sing some of her songs,


she is wonderful. I don't know her, can


you sing to me a little bit? I so wish I had my son's Keita with


me, and then she may have had to sing, although I cannot play it.


And more van share with other politicians to come


The Metropolitan Police is going to recruit people directly


as detectives without them spending time in uniform.


We can speak now to Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary,


Zoe Billingham, and Leroy Logan who is a former Metropolitan Police


Superintendent and retired after 30 years' service


How bad is the shortage of detectives? Very bad. We put in our


most recent report there is a national crisis in the shortage of


detectives and we have called on forces to take all sorts of


innovative action, like the Met are doing, to make sure that skilled


people are investigating very serious crimes. OK, but you are now


going to have people with skills in other areas but not policing.


Someone who has never arrested someone, someone who has never


sought a crime, going straight in as a detective? What you wouldn't


believe that the moment is that we have people who have no detective


experience at all who are police officers investigating rapes and


even in one incident a homicide. What we want to be happening is a


proper training course for people necessarily coming in from outside


of policing if that is what the Met thinks is important, they get the


appropriate training, they learn how to investigate a crime, they used


their forensic intelligence well and they bring offenders to justice.


That is preferable to forces using a patchwork approach and not having


the right skilled people investigating very, very serious


crimes against people. OK, Leroy Logan, what do you think about this?


There are certain things you can't learn from a book or online. There


are certain skills that you develop through on-site learning. Sorry to


interrupt, Zoe Billingham says there are people investigating crimes as


serious as murder and rape because of the shortage. It is because there


is a shortage, and I think it is really near-sighted that they


haven't understood when you have a high caseload of officers, and the


fact that they are leaving in their droves, and it is so difficult to


get into the tech -- the detective system that it has left a crisis. It


feeds into the narrative that it is just one crisis after another.


People are sensing they are not getting the service they deserve.


OK, why couldn't a graduate with a degree in, I don't know, English


literature take a course to learn some of the skills to become a


detective, and then go on to become a successful detective? I'm not


saying that they can't do it, the only thing is the time between them


being a graduate - I was a graduate when I joined the net but there were


certain skills are developed, interacting with the public, knowing


when someone is lying to you, getting an understanding of how you


map out the process of investigation. That doesn't come


just online or through a website. So I believe there is going to be a bit


of a risk when it comes to this transition to them being effective


detectives. Briefly, Zoe Billingham, what about those skills you pick up


that Leroy Logan has just talked about? These folks are not going to


be thrown in at the deep end, they will be recruited, they will have


the right skills, they will go through intensive training, they


will work alongside other very senior detectives for a period of


time working on perhaps less complex crimes to start with and then


working at the more conflicts crime areas. If they have the right skills


and qualities in order to be to do so. The public must be kept safe, at


the end of the day, and this training needs to be intensive and


conference. They have to be properly supervised, that is key. If they are


not, and not the current situation where you have a higher ratio of


constables, Detective constables and detective sergeants. They won't have


the intrusive supervision to ensure it is not just a rubber stamp, go


on, move on, they actually have the skills that they speak about. Will


they be properly supervised? Absolutely, supervised all the way


through their training and for many years into their qualifications as


well. Does that reassure you, briefly? The jury's out. Thank you


both of you. Tens of thousands of expat


pensioners may return to the UK to use the NHS after Brexit,


unless a deal can be done to let them keep receiving care abroad,


a think tank has warned. The Nuffield Trust estimates


the cost of treating them on home soil, rather than abroad,


could double to ?1 billion. Currently, the UK gives around


?500 million a year to EU countries that care for Brits


who have retired abroad. Jean Moore originally


from the West Midlands is one of the 190,000 pensioners living


in the EU. I spoke to her in Spain a short


time ago about the care I get excellent care here,


and I am frightened. I didn't vote for Brexit,


because I couldn't vote. And I'm frightened if I come back


now, or when Brexit occurs, My arthritis has flared up


really badly lately, and the hospital were worried,


so they are going to start me on a new treatment,


but they have to get permission I feel if I come back to the UK,


I will not get this treatment. I'm 74 on June 10th, and if I have


a seizure, I can't walk. My sons in England


are worried about me. Fortunately, for me,


I have a wonderful carer in my husband, who is 83 in August,


and he helps me an awful lot. So the reason we're talking


to you today, obviously, is because this report from a think


tank suggesting that people like yourself might have to come


back to the UK to use the NHS after Brexit, unless a deal can be


done that allows you to continue receiving your care abroad,


in Spain where you are right now. How hopeful are you that that sort


of deal can be done? Well, I always look on the bright


side and think, well, Britain will come through for us,


because there's a lot of people in Spain who work in the UK,


a lot of Spanish people. They will want their treatment


the same, so if the UK and Spain reciprocate one another,


we'll get on well. But if they go for a hard Brexit,


and they refuse this NHS thing, I'm done for, I might as well go


and get the funeral plan out Oh, Jean, you don't


mean that, do you? I tell you what it is,


I can't tell you how painful this It's like a silent disease,


you look really healthy, but it's a crippling disease


on the joints, and I'm just frightened that


if I go back to the UK, Well, that was Jean, God bless her,


her husband is her carer. He is 83. With me is Mark Dayan,


who carried out the research, he's from the health charity


the Nuffield Trust. Hello to you, Mark. So how real is


this possibility that somebody like gene might have to come back to the


UK for treatment? I hope a deal can be done, but we are some how going


into the unknown with this. There are some countries outside the EU


that have set up a reciprocal arrangement with the UK, Australia


is one. When you consider how many countries there are across the EU to


come to some sort of arrangement with. Yes, exactly, how many


countries, and also a reciprocal arrangements are foreigners who are


living here. Although relatively few EU migrants refuse to retire to


Britain for reasons of cost and perhaps the weather, but certainly


we would want that to be seen as a priority in Brexit negotiations. I


think that is one of a range of issues where the NHS will be


affected by Brexit, and what we want to see is it remaining at the centre


of the government's minds as they come to these difficult


negotiations. If a deal is reached, how much of an impact will it have


on the NHS? There are a number of things that might be tricky for the


NHS. Firstly, you would have these pensioners potentially having to


return to Britain to get the care they need. That will cost a bit of


extra money. Perhaps more importantly, added pressure on beds


and nurses which are very stretch at the moment, it has been very


inconvenient for pensioners like gene who probably like living where


they are, and getting the care they do. Then there is the impact on


staffing. At the moment the NHS is quite reliant on migrants from the


EU to fill but unfortunately due to bad planning has become a big gap


particularly around nursing. Lastly there is the market for medicine. At


the moment the NHS really benefits from being able to buy medicine from


across the EU, because it is all under the same pricing scheme.


Right, and in terms of the nursing shortage, what is the situation


right now? We already have a shortage of tens of thousands of


nurses. An analysis by the Department of Health which was


leaked show they think that could widen to as much as 20 to 50,000


more unfilled posts by 2025, if all nursing migration was cut off after


Brexit, which I don't think we want to see. And that is unlikely to see,


because pretty much all the parties have said whether they want to bring


net migration down or not, most of them have said it depends on the


needs of the economy. So if we need nurses, you would like to think we


would encourage nurses from abroad if we haven't got them here. That's


what we are saying, and we are encouraged by the both main parties


showing signs they have heard that concern. What I would say is in the


past when there was a crackdown from migration from outside the EU, that


really did push down the numbers, and the salaries weren't quite high


enough to meet some of the standards. I am in Carriage Gate


will be addressed but it is quite a real concern. Thank you very much.


-- I am encouraged that it will be addressed. Thank you for your many


comments on election blind dates. Mark on Facebook says I love these


election dates, listening to normal people having sensible, constructive


political discourse. What I love most is that the participants are


actively listening to each other and having a normal conversation. Our


political class should take note. John on Facebook, as an interesting


follow-up, the right wing young lady should go on a life swap with a


carer or somebody similar. Dawn on Facebook says this is the way me and


my friends are. We don't agree on


Made in Chelsea's Georgia Toffolo and austerity blogger Jack Monroe are the latest political polar opposites to take part in our Election Blind Dates.

Victoria speaks to one of the victims of breast surgeon Ian Paterson, as he is sentenced for carrying out multiple unnecessary operations.

And the Green Party's Caroline Lucas gets a lift in Victoria's white van and talks drugs, tears and prostitution.