Browse content similar to 15/06/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock. | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme. | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
The blackened shell that is Grenfell Tower | :00:15. | :00:16. | |
is all that remains of yesterday's horror. | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
The death toll at the moment stands at 12, | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
though it's expected to rise significantly. | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
My mum, my sister, her daughters and her husband. | :00:36. | :00:37. | |
Yeah, they're all still in the building. | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
I don't know if they're out because we don't have any information. | :00:40. | :00:50. | |
So many questions continue to be asked about what caused the blaze, | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
how this could happen, what can be done to ensure it never happens | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
again. It will allow fire to spread up, and what will happen is it will | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
create a path for the fire to spread and encourage the fire to spread | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
faster and more intensely. The original architect | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
of the building tells this programme he has serious concerns | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
about the recent refurbishment. That raises real questions about the | :01:15. | :01:28. | |
fire safety checks that were in place to stop families getting hurt. | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
Also, firefighters have worked through the night to dampen ablaze, | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
although some parts of the building on the upper floors remain alight. | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
The fire Brigade say the tower block is not structurally safe for them to | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
enter in some places. Meanwhile, local people continue to offer help | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
to those left destitute and homeless, this is where the relief | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
effort is being co-ordinated, and as you can see, there are piles of | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
clothes and toys that people have donated. We have also donated some | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
money, given money to families, Darren withdrew ?1000 from his | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
account, and we have been giving families ?100 just to see them over | :02:12. | :02:12. | |
the next couple of days. Good morning from North Kensington. | :02:13. | :02:32. | |
This morning we are at the Westway sports centre on one of their | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
basketball courts. You might be able to hear the traffic, we are just | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
under the Westway, the A40, one of the main arterial routes into the | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
capital, and here on this basketball court, people have donated so much | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
for those who lost everything in the fire at Grenfell Tower. Let me show | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
you some of the things that have been donated, look at those hundreds | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
and hundreds of pairs of shoes for teenagers, for young adults. Over | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
here, you can see the toys that have been donated for children, for | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
toddlers in particular down here, and the young girls, and then over | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
here the cuddly toys, and also bags and bags of books. Now, volunteers | :03:17. | :03:24. | |
spent much of yesterday, and most of the evening actually last night, | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
working through the night, to get these donations into some kind of | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
order, and you can see they have managed to do that. Here, piles of | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
Gilles' vests, dozens of them. Next to that, girls the' shirts, boys be' | :03:38. | :03:46. | |
jackets, underwear, socks, and so it goes on. If we can just show you a | :03:47. | :03:55. | |
360 degrees... Look at this, clothing donations for fire victims. | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
360 degrees around this basketball court, you can see how much stuff, | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
and this is just one area where people have donated, just one area. | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
Right next to me is the actual sports centre which is a relief | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
centre at effectively for people evacuated not from the tower itself, | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
but from surrounding homes and lives. And they provided beds for | :04:18. | :04:26. | |
300 last night. 40-50 people stayed in the end, many of them still | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
inside, many of them completely traumatised by what they witnessed. | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
There are mental health workers inside, I am told, social workers | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
inside, trying to help people come to terms with the fact that they may | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
have lost loved ones in the tower. Everybody says they have been | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
overwhelmed by support from the people who live in North Kensington. | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
The volunteers at these relief centres are saying, thank you for | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
everything you have donated, but we do not need any more for the moment. | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
What they need of volunteers during the day, because so many people are | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
having to go to work today, having stayed off yesterday. So they are | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
asking for volunteers from 9-5. I mean, the big question, when you | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
talk to people, it is much quieter this morning, it really is, you | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
know, the people I have spoken to, they just want to know why - they | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
just want to know why, how it is that something can happen like this | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
in a tower block in 2017. I am really keen to hear from you today - | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
if you live in a high-rise block of flats, I want to know if you are | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
confident today that your agency, your association, your management | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
organisation, whoever looks after you, whether it is the council, | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
whoever, are you confident they have done all that they can to keep you | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
safe? I really want to hear from you this morning, do get in touch in the | :05:57. | :05:57. | |
usual ways, Twitter, e-mail. They include Jessica Urbano Ramirez, | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
a 12-year-old who's believed to have become separated from her family | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
when the blaze broke out. Husna Begum, who lived | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
on the 17th floor and is missing with four other | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
members of her family. 27-year-old Mariem Elgwahry, | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
a marketing manager, who is believed to have last spoken | :06:23. | :06:31. | |
to someone 66-year-old retired lorry driver | :06:32. | :06:33. | |
Tony Disson, who lived Mo Tuccu, a British national | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
from Eritrea, who was visiting friends or | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
family at the Grenfell Tower with his wife Amalahmedin | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
and three-year-old daughter Amayah. They had gone to break | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
their Ramadan fast. 24-year-old artist Khadija Saye, | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
who lived on the 20th floor. Labour MP David Lammy's wife | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
was her employer and mentor. He tweeted, "If you have any | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
information about Khadija Saye, "She is our dear friend, a beautiful | :06:58. | :06:59. | |
soul and emerging artist." Khadija's mother, Mary Mendy, | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
is also missing. The official number of | :07:09. | :07:10. | |
dead stands at 12, although the police say | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
they expect that to rise significantly during a long | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
and complex recovery operation. Firefighters are continuing to | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
tackle pockets of fire in the block. I mean, that is astonishing, over 24 | :07:21. | :07:32. | |
hours since the fire broke out, and there are still claims in that | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
building. Let me introduce you to Harris Iqbal, who is here, good | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
morning. I'm Victoria, nice to meet you. Tell our audience how you have | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
been helping. We are an international humanitarian | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
organisation that works in crisis hit countries around the world, and | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
we have been here since the onset of this emergency providing hot food, | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
hot food provisions, blankets, pillows, necessary essentials for | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
families to keep going in a very difficult time. I wonder, if you | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
would be so kind as to show some of the... I have mentioned to the | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
audience some of the things that have been donated, but if we can | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
walk down here, you can talk through. What are people saying to | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
you? The community response has been overwhelming, you can see the very | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
generous donations that have come in all sorts of forms, from clothing to | :08:33. | :08:42. | |
baby kit, nappies. You can see around you, also saw things that | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
have been distributed and provided for the families that have been | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
affected. We are currently at a stage where we are at capacity and | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
unable to accept anymore, but the response has been. Right. Why do you | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
think that is? I think the British community, that is something we are | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
exceptionally good at, at times of difficulty, times of catastrophe, | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
and this is very much a humanitarian crisis, you know, the way | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
communities pulled together is amazing, and over the last couple of | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
hours and days it has been a fine example of communities coming | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
together. There are some very traumatised people who are perhaps | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
only now absorbing the fact that they have lost a loved one in that | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
hour. Absolutely. There are a number of families who are grieving at the | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
moment, there are those who still have loved ones that are missing, | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
and others who have lost their homes, livelihoods and belongings. | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
And so it is a very distressing and upsetting time. We are providing | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
emotional support, and we will continue to do so over the next | :09:52. | :10:01. | |
couple of days. I am going to introduce Anne Johnson, good | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
morning, nice to see you. Nice to meet you too. You live around here? | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
What are you thinking about what has happened? I don't think anything for | :10:11. | :10:20. | |
what has happened, it is what I saw. It was around... Yeah, it must have | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
been around 12:45 in the morning, I heard a lot of commotion, obviously | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
it work me up, so I got up to see what was going on. And from my front | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
door, I could see the building on the top was on fire. And within half | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
an hour, but by from the top down to the bottom, and then from the top of | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
the building, it started spreading, like from the top to the end. At the | :10:49. | :10:57. | |
very top of the building, I saw around about six children all crying | :10:58. | :11:06. | |
for help. Within I would say by 1:30, from the top of the building | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
halfway down, smoke just got into the flats, everything went black, | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
and you never saw anybody again. Many people were hanging out their | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
verandas, screaming for help, waving their telephones, T-shirts, | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
anything, just to say, we are here, we need help, we need attention. By | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
around three o'clock, that whole building from the top nearly to the | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
bottom was gone and on fire. I don't know how many survivors made it, but | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
from what I saw there was not a lot that made it out. How does that | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
happen in this country, in this year? I mean, in 2017, in a modern | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
economy, the capital city? To be honest with you, I don't have an | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
answer for that, to completely honest with you. I have heard a lot | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
of stories, a fridge freezer or... I am sorry, a fridge freezer cannot | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
take a whole building down. It is no normal. Something is wrong | :12:14. | :12:22. | |
somewhere, but I cannot tell you what... No, I am just... Do you feel | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
angry? I feel angry that I saw people dying in front of my eyes, I | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
saw kids and a woman, and kids this age hanging from windows with | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
teddies. And that angered me, and nobody could help them. That really | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
angered me. Cos as a mother myself, I mean, the tears in my eyes were | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
unbelievable. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, women, children, | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
grown men, didn't even know what to do apart from hang out the windows | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
and scream and shout. And there was no help. I think there was help | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
there, but nobody could get to them, that fire was so severe, it was | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
unbelievable. We are hearing, my colleagues at the BBC are hearing | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
that the Prime Minister, Theresa May, is going to visit the area | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
today. What is your reaction to that? What is she going to do? She | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
should have done their job right in the first place and this wouldn't | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
have happened. I mean, a lot of people are saying it is from the | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
buildings, you know? But at the end of the day, the way I see it, | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
Theresa May is nothing to do with the building, but the politics never | :13:39. | :13:47. | |
gives a damn about Ladbroke growth area, do they? Wide you say that? | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
Well, if you look at what Chelsea has to offer, it has everything to | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
other, they have more in Chelsea than what we do here. Which comes | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
under the Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council. But there is a lot | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
more down in Chelsea. Why do you think that is, Anne? I don't know! | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
Maybe because it is the layers of the rich people. And here? Yes, EU | :14:15. | :14:27. | |
is -- here is is middle-class, my God, why are we getting into | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
politics? I am interested, you have lived here for a long time, you saw | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
what happened. It was very sad. Very, very sad. I don't know what | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
Theresa May is going to do, unless she has got another block of flats | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
to no make these people homeless, because we have enough in United | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
Kingdom. Thank you very much, Anne. Anne, a local resident. Paris, how | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
do you react back at the Prime Minister will be visiting today? | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
It is a distressing time for all of us, at times like this we need to | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
unite and let those affected know that we stand together and they have | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
our support. For the Prime Minister is sitting, I'm sure that will be of | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
some solace to those communities affected. It is a difficult time and | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
a very distressing time. Harrowing stories, accounts that I have heard, | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
first town. Coming together now as a British community, and provide the | :15:40. | :15:41. | |
essential aid and support that we need and befriending is absolutely | :15:42. | :15:49. | |
priceless. Thank you very much for speaking with us. | :15:50. | :16:04. | |
Dominating the skyline, this community, the black skeleton of | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
Grenfell Tower, dark, empty, firefighters have been there through | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
the night, there are still flames, we are told, on the upper stories, | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
and structurally there are parts which are unsafe for firefighters to | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
enter into, and so many questions, as you would expect, about what | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
caused the fire and why it took also quickly. Still burning over 24 hours | :16:28. | :16:29. | |
on. That building went up so fast. How? | :16:30. | :16:52. | |
Why? A lot of questions to be asked. The first of which, were there even | :16:53. | :16:54. | |
the most basic fire safety precautions. | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
All of a sudden, I heard my door, bang, bang, bang. | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
Evacuate? Evacuate. | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
Residents who survived were woken up by each other, not fire alarms. | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
Ran down the stairs, we were on the seventh, | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
as we were running down, we've gone to the fourth floor | :17:16. | :17:17. | |
But the fire alarm that was going off wouldn't | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
It weren't loud, it weren't, you know, it weren't | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
There was no fire alarm at all. No fire alarm that you could hear? | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
Another question mark hangs over evacuation procedures. | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
If I listened to the advice given to me by the fire brigade and also | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
by the TMO management team we could be dead. | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
They'd been told, in the event of a fire, to stay put. | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
This was one of my main concerns about living in a tower block. | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
On Saturday we did have the fire brigade team come around and speak | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
Check alarms to make sure they are working. | :17:51. | :18:01. | |
Just this Saturday? Just this Saturday. | :18:02. | :18:02. | |
Seriously? Yeah. | :18:03. | :18:03. | |
Yeah. And they told us the protocol | :18:04. | :18:05. | |
was to close your door because the fire door will withstand | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
the heat for a duration of time. We know that for Grenfell Tower, | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
that period of time is 30 minutes. Yet people were waiting | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
far, far longer. They were saying what? | :18:14. | :18:15. | |
Smoke. Hoping that the fire | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
brigade would get up there. Because that is what | :18:20. | :18:27. | |
they're told to isn't it? So they would have stayed in there, | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
waiting and following instructions. Nothing else you can do | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
from the 18th floor. My mum and my infant sister was, | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
they were there for five hours. Because the fire brigade | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
told them just to wait My mum was panicking, | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
I was panicking. Flats should be fire | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
resistant cells. So a fire should burn itself | :18:47. | :18:47. | |
out without spreading. Tower blocks aren't designed | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
for everyone to evacuate in one go. Which is why it's considered safer | :18:51. | :18:52. | |
to stay in your flat. The fact that on this occasion it | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
wasn't raises another big question. Why did the outside of the tower | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
block catch fire so easily? Grenfell Tower was | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
refurbished in 2016. The cladding was supplied by this | :19:02. | :19:02. | |
company, Harley Facades. You'd expect a cladding system | :19:03. | :19:10. | |
to prevent the fire spreading up You expect the cladding itself to be | :19:11. | :19:12. | |
noncombustible and you'd expect there to be fire stops, | :19:13. | :19:24. | |
fire breaks at each floor level to prevent it acting effectively | :19:25. | :19:26. | |
like a chimney and allowing the fire to spread all the way up | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
the outside of the building. One theory is the fire could have | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
spread through the cladding. over Kensington and Chelsea Tenant | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
Management Organisation Last year KCTMO put its fire safety | :19:44. | :19:52. | |
policy under review. Meanwhile residents | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
in the Grenfell Action Group warned They said a catastrophic event | :19:58. | :19:59. | |
will expose the ineptitude We can speak with our reporter, Jim | :20:00. | :20:24. | |
Reed, looking into some of the questions that need answering. Of | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
course, the first, how could this happen? Exactly, investigators are | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
going to spend months, if not longer, looking into the causes of | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
the fire. At this early stage, people are looking at the speed at | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
which the fire spread, simply should not happen in a modern tower block, | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
even one which has been refurbished, should not catch fire and should not | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
spread that quickly, that is what experts tell us. Yesterday one of | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
the original architect spoke with us. In 1974, he worked on it in the | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
late 1960s, even he described it as incomprehensible that it burned so | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
quickly, we built a concrete building and concrete simply does | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
not burn like that. What went wrong? It is not yet confirmed, a lot of | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
talk about the cladding that went on the outside of the building. Fixed | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
on about one year ago. You and the viewers at home will have seen this, | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
plastic looking substance, goes on the outside of older style blocks to | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
make it look pretty, and also for energy reasons, to make it more | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
efficient. So, potentially, that could have been partially | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
responsible. That is what some people say, the residents we were | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
speaking with, on this programme, brought it up again and again. We | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
have learned the panels fixed onto the outside were made of something | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
called ACM, that is aluminium composite material, that material | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
has been blamed for nearly a dozen high-rise flyers globally over the | :21:54. | :22:02. | |
last decade. France, Dubai, a couple of fires famously there. -- a dozen | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
high-rise fires. Regulations around those panels are quite sketchy, you | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
can have a situation where there is fire retardant material on the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
outside that protects from firebug on the inside, the bag, it is not | :22:15. | :22:25. | |
fire leading to a situation where the inside burns through but the | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
outside is not, that creates a chimney effect, that is what it | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
looked like yesterday on television and social media. That is just a | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
theory. Needs a full investigation. The worst tower block fire like this | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
was in a place called lacquer Mulhouse, south London, 2009, last | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
night we spoke with Sam Webb, the expert in the inquest into those six | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
deaths, and again, he said, this is horribly familiar, pointed to the | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
cladding, looking at the television footage and said, the could this be | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
to blame, he said this was entirely preventable. -- Lakanal House. The | :23:04. | :23:11. | |
main contract to install this was Rydon and they say they have met the | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
regulations, the subcontractor, Harley Facades, not aware of any | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
link between the cladding and the fire at this time. What about safety | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
procedures? Brought up yesterday, a couple of real concerns about the | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
alarm system fitted. A new alarm system was fitted last year under | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
the refit, but people we have spoken with say they did not hear an alarm, | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
it did not get them out of bed, they were woken up by smoke alarms in | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
neighbouring flats. The evacuation procedure, people being told through | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
notices in the building that if the fire is not directly inside your | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
flat, stay inside. That is common advice for high-rise blocks across | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
the UK at the moment. That may be looked into. A sprinkler system as | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
well, after the earlier fire in lacquer Mulhouse, it was said that | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
perhaps that should be considered to install them in new house -- old | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
houses. If it had been newer, it would have a sprinkler system. -- | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
lacquer null house. -- Lakanal House. | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
Wojciech should have been in place to make sure that a fire like this | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
did not happen? One of the things are and I certainly concur with | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
this, once they had done the major checks, they should carried out fire | :24:41. | :24:48. | |
risk assessment review. -- once they had done the major works. -- what | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
checks. Under approved document be, | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
regulation 38, all of the necessary information about what had been used | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
on the building should have been carried out, test report, whether | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
that was the correct application for the building, those questions need | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
to be answered. For a moment, assume all of that happened as it should, | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
are you then saying that the fire would not have happened or not? If | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
the cladding and what was behind the cladding had been properly fire | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
tested, and the surface spread of flames was appropriate, the fire | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
would not have spread up there. But Niall is more of an expert. The | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
exterior of the cladding has to be noncombustible, not what is behind | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
it. Under a note, and approved document, approved document be, a | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
statutory guidance to the building regulation, there is a requirement | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
for non-combustible cladding for buildings above 18 metres. -- | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
approved document B. Or, 8414... Sorry, stop doing these numbers at | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
me... I'm going down on the hierarchy, the default condition is | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
noncombustible, the next is a very strong and worthy fire, the next is | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
and assessment by a test laboratory, and the next... We do not know which | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
of these procedures was used on this blog. It may have been fully fire | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
tested. I have my doubts. -- block. We have no idea. It is difficult to | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
say. Sorry to give you all of those numbers. No, that is fine. There are | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
questions to be asked on this cladding, I saw video from a | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
passer-by which showed very rapid narrow initial fire spread, 30 | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
seconds or so to get to the top of the building, unbelievable, I have | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
never seen anything like it. What we have to remember is that each of the | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
flats is a bit like a shoe box, think about a shoe box, it should | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
have a half-hour protection around it at every angle, although shoe | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
boxes stacked on each other, if the fire is retained within that shoe | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
box for half an hour, that is more than enough time for fire brigade to | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
come to deal with the fire in the individual flat, which is where that | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
stayed put policy comes from. But it needs to be quantified, the state | :27:19. | :27:26. | |
put -- clearly everybody in this lot was affected by fire or smoke and so | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
they should have been evacuated the the stay put is clear about that. | :27:30. | :27:38. | |
Why was there that policy, that stay put policy, it is so that | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
firefighters can get up the stairs and not be impeded by people coming | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
down the stairs, is that correct? Would you want to live in a | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
high-rise block of flats where every time somebody burned their toes, | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
everybody has to evacuate, how many times a day would you be evacuating. | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
Where you have a property with a single step place -- single | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
staircase, they would be running up with all their equipment, a dry | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
riser in a high-rise block, they would set up the fire cordon one | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
level the fire, connected to the dry riser and run up. Once they run a | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
hose people coming down, once they put water in the hose, the hose will | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
go talk, any be on the stairs will be taken out. Do not want loads of | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
people coming out of the building in such a circumstance because people | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
will get injured. Thank you very much for coming down. | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
We are at the Westway sports Centre this Thursday morning, more than 24 | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
hours after the fire broke out at Grenfell Tower. It is the structure | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
that looms over this community, it dominates everything. This is the | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
day when people are perhaps absorbing properly the fact they may | :28:53. | :28:59. | |
have lost loved ones. There are desperate people still searching for | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
missing relatives. There is a condolence wall, if I can put it | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
like that, I have tweeted a photograph of that, evil writing | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
messages to those who have lost lives. The messages include love and | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
prayers. There is also some anger on that wall. Justice for ground fell | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
-- justice for Grenfell, why did this happen to happen, whoever is | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
responsible, those selfish people will pay. Those are some of the | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
sentiments. Underneath, people laying flowers as a mark of respect. | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
We are going to walk across this basketball pitch past all these | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
donations, the volunteers have said they have enough now. They perhaps | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
do not have enough volunteers to sort through all the many hundreds | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
of bags, I mean, this is stuff that has not been sorted through yet, | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
look at these bin bags full of donations - clothes, jumpers, | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
sportswear, socks, underwear, toys. Over here, thank you, Mo, bedding, | :30:08. | :30:17. | |
duvets, mattresses, and so it goes on. Now, we are going to walk | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
through and out, because outside here, this is a queue of people who | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
are signing into volunteer. There with me as we walk through. | :30:28. | :30:38. | |
Hopefully, I will be able to introduce you to some of the | :30:39. | :30:46. | |
volunteers. Bear with me, excuse me, hello. Good morning. Hello, what is | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
your name? Abraham, how are you? Nice to see you, who is this? Hi, | :30:54. | :31:01. | |
Lucy, what is your role? I came down yesterday morning, and I was based | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
here until midnight last night, and I got up this morning and wanted to | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
get involved and do whatever I could to help. So you are a volunteer, do | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
you live locally? My house is just there, so sitting at home and | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
watching the news, just felt completely wrong, it down, do | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
whatever I could, seems the right thing. Abraham, tell cum about how | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
you have been helping. I started at six o'clock yesterday morning, just | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
to volunteer, the sports centre opened their doors for us, amazing. | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
Basically, people coming out of their houses with big bags, not | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
knowing what to do. It is lovely they opened their doors, and I took | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
control, and I said, I am the co-ordinated here, hundreds of | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
lovely volunteers spend hours, hours, more than 15 hours, sorting | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
this all out. What really struck me, if you walk past all the open spaces | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
here, full of people bringing stuff. And this is being coordinated, as | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
far as I can see, not by anybody in authority, not by the council - it | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
is people like yourselves. Absolutely, hands up to the | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
community, dedicated so much of their time, donations from different | :32:26. | :32:32. | |
charities, 100% effort. I guess it is confusing for a lot of | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
authorities, because they didn't know where to go, what was the main | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
centre? We have got so many viewers getting in touch, from all over the | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
country, saying, how can we help? What would you suggest? At the | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
moment, we are so full of generous, you know, donations. I think what we | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
need at the moment is if people can find locations and help sort out | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
things, this is one of our biggest collection points, and we need | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
volunteers to help sort it out. Hopefully, the council can arrange. | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
People further afield, they can donate to all sorts of places | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
online, official fundraising campaigns for those have lost | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
everything. There are people who have managed to escape that horror | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
and have everything that they have worked for, gone. I think we don't | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
know, we don't know how much stuff there is, we don't know where it is | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
going to go. The people arriving now, people are texting, there are | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
continually questions, what can we do? I think we are going to find out | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
today, as the days and weeks unfold. It is not just yesterday, not just | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
today, there will be more to do over the coming weeks, continue fighting | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
for this. What to think about what has happened in your community? | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
Long-term or just in the last 24 hours? You tell me. What was | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
amazing, yesterday, the camaraderie and spirit that crossed languages, | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
cultures. People were working from their hearts, it is something that | :34:17. | :34:24. | |
is moving and exhilarating, in the current state of what is going on, | :34:25. | :34:32. | |
it is heart-warming. OK. If I may, Lucy, Abraham, bear with me, I am | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
just getting this statement from the Queen. The Queen has said her | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
thoughts and prayers are with those families who have lost loved ones in | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
the Grenfell Tower fire and the many people who are still critically ill | :34:45. | :34:53. | |
in hospital. Wow. It is lovely. The families that are in here are being | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
taken care of, a full team of supporters, they have everything | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
they need. The best we can do is just do what we are doing. We will | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
also reporting earlier that the Prime Minister, Theresa May, is due | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
here today. We will see what happens. I'm not sure how the public | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
will react, because there is a lot of anger, a lot of the volunteers | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
are local guys. I'm not really sure. What do you mean? It was kind of | :35:28. | :35:35. | |
heated, people were really frustrated with the situation. | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
Because it happened? The reasons why it happened, and children, you know, | :35:40. | :35:48. | |
we had young children wanting to volunteer, jumping up and down, | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
laughing and smiling, but they have friends who they have lost because | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
they went to the school across the road, they have lost friends. So | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
many people have lost friends and family, you know, we will do as much | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
as we can. We are very organised here, great team, great volunteers, | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
loads of volunteers with a structure of what were going to do for the | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
day. But if you want to volunteer, go to different areas, leisure | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
centres et cetera, go and help yourself. Thank you very much, | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
Abraham, Lucy, thank you very much, thank you. This statement from the | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
Queen, a little longer, I will read it to you. My thoughts and prayers | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
are with those families who have lost loved ones in the Grenfell | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
Tower fire, and the many people who are still critically ill in | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
hospital. Prince Philip and I would like to pay tribute to the bravery | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
of firefighters and other emergency service officers who put their lives | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
at risk to save others. It is also heartening to see the incredible | :36:58. | :36:59. | |
generosity of community volunteers rallying to help those affected by | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
this terrible event. We have also got this breaking news to bring you | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
- Labour are calling for an inquiry into fire safety in tower blocks to | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
be completed by the summer. Let's talk to assistant political editor | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
Norman Smith, Phil us in. There is mounting frustration at Westminster | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
that because Parliament is not sitting, there is no opportunity for | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
MPs to quiz ministers about fire safety, so Labour have jumped the | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
gun and said they want an inquiry to be completed by the summer, and in | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
the interim they want the recommendations of a previous | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
report, following the Lakanal House tower block tragedy in south London, | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
to be implemented immediately. Now, that would mean, for example, the | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
installation of sprinklers in at risk tower blocks. It would mean a | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
review of building regulations to include the safety of cladding, | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
which of course is at the centre of much of the concern about what has | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
happened at Grenfell Tower. It would also include updated advice to | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
residents about whether they should stay or whether they should get out | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
- that too has been central to Grenfell Tower. And there would also | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
be an instruction that there had to be a sort of box at the bottom of | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
the tower block which would give firefighters all the information | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
they needed about routes, access, lifts, stairwells and all that sort | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
of thing. So they are in effect saying we cannot afford to hang | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
around, we have to implement the 2013 recommendations which by and | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
large have either been rejected or shelved. OK. And Theresa May and | :38:45. | :38:52. | |
Jeremy Corbyn are going to come here to the scene of the tragedy today, | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
is that correct? That is right, the Prime Minister will be there ahead | :38:58. | :39:05. | |
of Jeremy Corbyn, both obviously want to show their condolences, | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
there is sadness, there horror at what happened. But there is, I have | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
to say, some pressure on the Government now to come forward with | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
more than simply expressions of condolences. There were demands | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
yesterday for a statement in Westminster, not in the Commons | :39:23. | :39:25. | |
because it is not sitting - the statement in one of the committee | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
rooms where a minister, as well as the emergency services, as well as | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
the local council, could be quizzed by MPs. Having spoken to the | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
authorities at Westminster, that does not seem to be about to happen. | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
I think there is a degree of anger that it is just not acceptable, | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
given the scale and nature of this tragedy, that there is no immediate | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
mechanism whereby MPs can, as it were, hold the Government to | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
account. Now, I'm sure ministers will they have set up the civil | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
contingencies Secretariat to pull together the different information, | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
and we had an assurance last night that any lessons to be learned would | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
be, but I have spoken to MPs saying that is not good enough, what is | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
needed is a full-blown public inquiry, not merely to establish | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
what has gone wrong, but to reassure the public and people living in the | :40:18. | :40:19. | |
thousands of tower blocks elsewhere in Britain. Yeah. I am asking people | :40:20. | :40:27. | |
who live in high-rise blocks of flats this morning, if they feel | :40:28. | :40:35. | |
confident that he was -- that whoever is looking after them, do | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
they feel safe? Let me ask you about criticism of Gavin Barwell, a former | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
Conservative MP, he lost his seat in the general election, then he was | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
made Theresa May's chief of staff, why such criticism? Criticism | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
because he was the former housing minister, and back in October last | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
year, he promised to produce a review of the building regulations, | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
and the fact is that just has not emerged, and that, I have to say, | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
follows on from the previous housing minister, Brandon Lewis, who | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
similarly was challenged to implement the lack of -- the Lakmal | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
house recommendations, and that also seems to have disappeared into the | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
long grass. At the moment, politicians are holding back because | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
it is just not appropriate in the aftermath of such a tragedy to be | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
making those very direct political accusations. But there is no doubt | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
that there are a whole load of very difficult questions waiting to be | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
answered by Gavin Barwell once this tragedy is over. | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
Agger very much, Norman Smith, apologies if you frantically called | :41:54. | :42:03. | |
me trying to work out who our next guests would be. I am here as an | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
individual Assembly Member, but that is one of my jobs. You are a local | :42:10. | :42:18. | |
councillor, is that correct? Yes. So today, what questions would you like | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
answered? Well, something the leader of the council said yesterday, the | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
leader of the Council, Kensington and Chelsea, he said that when the | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
refurbishments of the tower was finished, there would have been a | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
full inspection, which suggested to me that he has not seen any full | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
inspection, and that raises the question as to whether there was a | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
full inspection. Would-be leader of the council get to see that report? | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
-- I think if he were going to be interviewed after a horrendous fire | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
like this, I would expect him to be fully briefed, yes. Had he seen an | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
inspection, he would have seen that the only fire escape, the single | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
stairwell, was not part of the refurbishment. The lights were on | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
but not working properly, clearly not working properly yesterday. We | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
asked for that to being clued up, and they basically said we cannot do | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
that is there isn't enough money, the country, not enough money to | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
refurbish the fire escape. I think that is absolutely outrageous. What | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
would that have achieved? It would have achieved working lights, | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
possibly a fire alarm, and easier way for people to get down. If you | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
have not seen the staircase, it is really manky and nasty. It is not | :43:38. | :43:45. | |
central, it is at one side of the building, and it is the only fire | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
escape. Right, OK. Sian Berry, what about yourself? Well, following | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
previous incidents like this, the Lakanal House buyer, we came to the | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
same conclusions as the coroner, and one of the recommendations was that | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
fire risk assessments need to be published, need to be available | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
online, not just for councils that need to see them, but a residence in | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
the blocks to want to inspect the safety of their blocks, transparency | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
is a real is you. Obviously, we have talked about the recommendations to | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
change the fire regulations, and the difficulties that there are with you | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
is responsible levels. The problem we have got is that there is a | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
conflict of interest. The owners of buildings are the people responsible | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
for carrying out fire risk assessments. There is no statutory | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
process of signing things off, like they used to be. It is not the same | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
as it used to be. I understand that, that is a very fair point. Are you | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
suggesting that the landlord or management organisation in charge of | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
a block, they don't do the fire assessment themselves, they would | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
call in an expert. They are responsible for calling in an | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
expert, and when the Fire Brigades did an assessment, they found 20% | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
were not adequate, there are lots of questions about the people doing | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
them. It is a lesser regime than it used to be, and that does seem to be | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
an issue, especially when it comes to transparency and accountability | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
to the residents. One of the real things we can see out of this is | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
that the residents themselves were organised, looking at things in | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
detail, they were making recommendations, and yet they seem | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
to have been treated more or less like troublemakers, and that is | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
something we are seeing right across London - residents are not treated | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
with respect, and they are acting in the interests of their neighbours, | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
they should be more involved in the management of their blocks, they | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
should be treated better. I was going to say, the residents raised | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
questions about the fire safety ever since the power surges in 2016. They | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
asked them to pay for their own independent expert, looking at fire | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
regulations and the situation there and they were told it was not | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
necessary, that the TMO had commissioned their own expert, don't | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
worry your pretty little heads about it, go away. What have the council | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
been able to do in terms of urgency accommodation for those who were | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
evacuated, those who escaped. Those evacuated as well from surrounding | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
flats and houses. Some of those who have been evacuated went back to | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
their homes, I think they went willingly, but as far as the | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
Grenfell Tower residents are concerned, I had an e-mail this | :46:31. | :46:32. | |
morning from a family that came from the tower, in a hotel in Earls | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
Court, given no indication as whether they will stay for a second | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
night or what their future will be. Everybody in temporary accommodation | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
should be given the fullest information as to what... Is it | :46:48. | :46:49. | |
possible there is not the fullest information yet? But surely they can | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
be told if they can stay a second night because they have nowhere else | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
to go, no belongings, nothing. Why are they in the dark like that, it | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
adds to the horrendous experience they have been through. The Prime | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
Minister Theresa May has arrived, we are hearing, in the vicinity of | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
Grenfell Tower. Really. Yes. Well, she will not get a very good | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
reception from the residents, residents are getting very angry. | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
Yesterday they were traumatised and distraught, today they are | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
exceedingly angry. Is that what you are finding? Yes, the residents were | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
angry before this happened, they were warning of this, the anger out | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
there, generally, across London, across the country, from people who | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
have had similar experiences with refurbishments who still have | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
unanswered questions, is rather huge. Councils around London, that | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
run housing in London, they need to be getting the fullest possible | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
information out of people about who has cladding that might be at risk | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
and get them to do assessments of what the problems might be as soon | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
as possible. People need reassurance, they feel let down. | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
Here is a private visit from the Prime Minister. Really? She should | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
probably be protected from the residents as she was protected from | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
the electorate during the general election campaign. If she is to meet | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
residents, what will they say to her? They would be extremely | :48:12. | :48:20. | |
expletive deleted, but without the expletives deleted! They will tell | :48:21. | :48:22. | |
her about what has been going on for five years, how their concerns have | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
been sidelined, the towel refurbishment was done to them, not | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
with them, and there were so many problems that were completely | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
ignored throughout the process. -- the tower refurbishment. The | :48:35. | :48:43. | |
board... And arm's-length management organisation, TMO, used to manage | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
all the states in the Royal Borough. I raised all of these problems at | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
the board, basically, they said, you are speaking only on behalf of those | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
rabble-rousers, at Grenfell Tower, we can ignore you. How do you | :48:59. | :49:07. | |
respond? We have a slightly new board now, slightly more supportive | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
people, when I raise issues of concern to communities, they back me | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
up, but that board was not in place then. Thank you both, and give very | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
much. And thank you, Green Party chair of the London assembly housing | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
committee. Thank you for your messages from around the country, | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
this is from Twitter, your guest earlier hit the nail on the head, | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
this was a local resident. How can a fridge exploding set fire to a whole | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
block of flats? Craig on Twitter has said, what a fantastic response by | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
the people of London, after the fire. What other local authorities | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
doing? We are not hearing from them, these people need help. And this | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
from somebody who does not leave their name, regular people with | :49:58. | :49:59. | |
heartbreaking details and honest opinion, people rarely heard, honest | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
and fair reporting from you this morning. I'm really interested to | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
hear from you, if you live in a block of flats, whether you feel | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
confident, how confident you feel about whether the association, the | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
agency, the management organisation, the tenant organisation, which runs | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
your block of flats, how confident you feel in them when it comes to | :50:23. | :50:30. | |
keeping you safe? Good morning, we will bring you the latest news and | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
sport in just a moment. It is much busier now, when we arrived first | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
thing this morning, it was so quiet, I think perhaps people did not | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
realise that some of the roads had reopened, the Westway, the main | :50:46. | :50:47. | |
road, one of the main routes into the capital, is open. Latimer Road | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
tube station is open, Ladbroke Grove is open, which is Notting Hill, | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
which is where the Carnival is, which many of you will have been to. | :50:58. | :51:03. | |
And now, you can still see people arriving to volunteer, have a look | :51:04. | :51:10. | |
at these people, just signing in, volunteers, people who live locally | :51:11. | :51:13. | |
and further afield. The message has got through, I think, no more | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
donations are needed, no more donations needed. But, what they do | :51:19. | :51:25. | |
need our helpers, and these are some helpers signing in. Good morning. | :51:26. | :51:38. | |
Hello. Are you volunteering? The whole community is chipping in. They | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
are taking our telephone numbers, and when it is needed we will come | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
and help. It is good to know that they do not need help at the moment | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
because so many people are already helping out. You will come back | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
later if they need you? Yes, we live locally. We will try to help. Thank | :51:57. | :52:05. | |
you. Thank you very much. So, the extraordinary community effort, | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
another example of it there, to help the victims of the blaze. Brought | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
together, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, in a perfect | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
example of community spirit. Also, people like Adele turned up to a | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
vigil, who was apparently hugging and comforting survivors. Churches | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
and community centres have opened their doors from first light to | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
accommodate those rescued from the blazing building and those who had | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
been evacuated from surrounding homes. Let's talk now to some of | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
those people who dedicated their time and effort, time and energy, I | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
should say, to the support effort. Hello, Miranda, hello. How are you? | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
Who else have we got here. Lukman. Hello. And Younes. I'm Victoria, | :52:53. | :53:02. | |
thank you for speaking with us. Miranda, you headed to a church, you | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
are not religious but you headed to a church to help. We are at the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
Notting Hill gate Methodist Church, there was a door open, the minister | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
was there, one lady, one bag, we decided to turn it into a centre. We | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
have had donations from the children, residents have come in | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
telling us appalling stories about how they are still waiting for the | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
families. But we did have 19-year-old girl who brought us in a | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
pair of trainers, they will auction them, Nike trainers, thank you! What | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
the people say when they bring their donations. They say... Well, we do | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
not have time to chat with them, so we cannot chat with them, we have | :53:48. | :53:50. | |
had people go to the rugby club, but the situation, everybody is | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
horrified by this needless, pointless crime. You say crime? Yes, | :53:55. | :54:02. | |
I use that word with passion. You use it advisory? This is a crime, | :54:03. | :54:10. | |
needless, pointless, they have been asking for fire certificate safety | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
certificate since 2014 and they never got one. I think it is | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
shocking... We are not doing this... We should not have to be doing this! | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
Had they taken care of everybody in the borough, not just the rich | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
people...! This would not have happened. They would not have to | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
suffer as they have. I was talking to one lady just now, cuddling her, | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
she was crying, she has lost some family and some family are | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
missing... Because that is what it is about, about the residence. -- | :54:45. | :54:54. | |
residents. Miranda is very emotional, totally understandable, | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
tell us how you have been helping. Started off with somebody phoning me | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
and telling me that they have some clothes to donate, a friend of mine. | :55:04. | :55:11. | |
I live local, near the incident, I can get access to places more easily | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
than him because all the roads were blocked off. Then I decided to call | :55:15. | :55:23. | |
my friend, who had a vehicle, and basically, we formed some groups, on | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
Whats App, and on Twitter, as well. We did not expect it to be as good | :55:28. | :55:36. | |
as what it did turn out to be. Basically, people from Birmingham, | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
Luton, Brentford, Wembley, all over, Muslims, non-Muslims, all of them | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
phoning me. My phone did not stop ringing and ringing and ringing. | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
With donations. Clothing. To the point, I used my house as a drop-off | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
point as well because I live local as well. A lot of people with bands | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
were helping me, to distribute all the things everywhere. -- vans and | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
we managed to raise between five and ?8,000 as well. In one day. We did | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
as well. -- we did as well. Separately?! We | :56:13. | :56:23. | |
did as well, somebody came from North London to give us a lot of | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
money, I will not say how much, but somebody gave us a lot of cash | :56:27. | :56:35. | |
money. -- vans. And we managed to raise between ?5,000 and ?8,000. | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
Cash donations, but no more goods. Tell us what you have been doing. He | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
phoned me in the early hours of the morning, he said, I need to use your | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
car, to collect, we have clothes in Wembley. To bring it back to the | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
people that need it. In Grenfell Tower. I came in my car, collecting | :56:58. | :57:05. | |
trainers, clothes, things like that, distributing it to the people that | :57:06. | :57:14. | |
need it. I am part of a Leytonstone education trust, we are a mosque and | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
educational centre, community centre, one of the first mosques out | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
of many to respond yesterday. Within a few hours, the whole back wall was | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
packed with food items and essentials. This is not just a North | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
Kensington effort, this is London, data London, further afield do come | :57:34. | :57:41. | |
together, we will have two invade each other's body space. I am a | :57:42. | :57:48. | |
part-time imam at the mosque, and in the month of Ramadan, as Muslims, as | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
non-Muslims, as a community, coming together and giving something back. | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
We are receiving donations not just from Leytonstone and Stratford but | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
also from places like Luton, places like Ilford as well, people from all | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
over London and outside of London coming in and participating, it is a | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
community effort. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thanks for | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
talking to us, we appreciate it. Coming up to 10am, we will bring you | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
the latest news and sport in just a moment. Before that, the weather | :58:21. | :58:21. | |
forecast. Things turning a little bit fresher | :58:22. | :58:30. | |
today, warm, muggy night, pretty uncomfortable for sleeping for many | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
of us. Here is the scene taken early on by one of the weather Watchers in | :58:34. | :58:39. | |
North Wales. More sunshine later on, scattered showers, and the fresher | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
feel to the weather, particularly as we had through the afternoon. Cold | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
front moving west to east across the country, a band of cloud, really, | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
with light showers, but any showers fading away as it pushes towards the | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
south-east. Then we are left with some sunshine but also scattered | :58:59. | :59:01. | |
showers, particularly for Scotland and Northern Ireland as well. | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
Further south, plenty of sunshine, temperatures in the West 17 or 18 | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
degrees, little bit cooler than recent days, warmer than that | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
further east, where you keep the warm air for longer. One or two | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
shower was propping up through northern England but Northern | :59:20. | :59:21. | |
Ireland and Scotland will have the bulk of the showers. Some of them | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
quite heavy, could be the odd rumble of thunder, quite blustery with | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
gusty winds in and around the showers. Moving through into the | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
evening, fine end to the day for many of us, showers in the north | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
tending to ease away as we had through the overnight period, mostly | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
dry through the early hours, not quite as hot and muggy as it was | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
last night. Temperatures around 12, 13 degrees, cooler than they were | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
first thing this morning. Through the day tomorrow, a lot of dry | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
weather once again with sunshine particularly in the south and the | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
East, more clouds towards the north-west with rain across Northern | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
Ireland and into Scotland. Temperature wise, we could see 23, | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
24 degrees. Fresher than that further north. As high pressure | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
builds through the South as we had through Friday night, that will be | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
the driving force of the weather, low pressure system bringing the | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
front, fairly cloudy, breezy and damp for the north-west of Scotland, | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
but elsewhere, it is looking dry once again. Light wind and sunshine, | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
temperature likely to reach around 28 degrees during the course of | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
Saturday. Into Sunday, that heat rising even more, we could see 30 | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
degrees towards the south-east. Cooler towards the north-west, some | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
rain across the North West of Scotland. Elsewhere, looking dry. | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
Plenty more summery weather on the cards, through much of the next few | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
days, into the weekend, you can find a full tender 10-day forecast at the | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
website. -- you can find a full ten day forecast. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
Hello, it's Thursday, it's ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire. | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
Prime Minister Theresa May is meeting residents and firefighters | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
at the Grenfell Tower block now, about 150 metres or so away from | :01:09. | :01:15. | |
where we are broadcasting to you from in North Kensington. But what | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
kind of reception issues getting? They will be exceedingly expletive | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
deleted, but without the deletions, they will be telling her what has | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
been going on for the last five years, how their concerns have been | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
ignored, they have at the tower Ruth Jebet done to them, not with them, | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
and there were so many problems which were completely ignored. -- | :01:40. | :01:40. | |
tower refurbishment. Fire still blazes in some | :01:41. | :01:41. | |
parts in the charred The death toll remains at 12 | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
but that is expected to rise as dozens of people | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
are still unaccounted for. I saw around about six children all | :01:50. | :02:14. | |
crying for help, and within, I would say by 1:30, that all top of the | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
building halfway down, smoke just got into the flats, everything went | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
black. And you never saw anybody again. | :02:27. | :02:27. | |
This is the scene at Grenfell Tower now, where firefighters | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
are still trying to bring the fire under control. | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
Firefighters have been explaining the difficult circumstances | :02:39. | :02:39. | |
It is very difficult for people to comprehend, when they look at a | :02:40. | :02:51. | |
building, why we cannot just go in and see it, but due to the severity | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
of the fire and what happens in those circumstances, everything | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
inside all of those rooms, basically, ends up on the floor in | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
large amounts of volumes of stuff. Many questions continue to be asked | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
about what caused the blaze and what can be done to ensure | :03:06. | :03:07. | |
it never happens again. One problem that people we have | :03:08. | :03:21. | |
spoken to say the regulations around the panels are quite sketchy. You | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
can have a situation where there is fire retardant material on the | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
outside, but on the inside, on the back, it is not fire resistant, and | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
that can lead to a situation where the inside burns through, and people | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
say that can lead to a chimney effect. | :03:39. | :03:48. | |
Hello, good morning. Theresa May, the Prime Minister, has arrived at | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
the Grenfell Tower block in the last few minutes. We are told that she is | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
meeting residents, and she is meeting firefighters. It is a | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
private meeting, there are no media there. That is about 150 metres or | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
so from where we are in North Kensington, this is the Westway | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
sports centre, and on this basketball pitch you will see | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
hundreds and hundreds of bags and boxes and nappies and clothes that | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
people have donated over the last 24 hours or so. So much stuff has been | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
brought, as we were hearing before the news, not just by people who | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
live here but across London, Greater London and further afield. And the | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
messages, thanks so much for the things you have broad, they don't | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
need anything else at the moment. But they do need volunteers, people | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
volunteering, many of them live in a local area, they are signing a sheet | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
to say, if you need us, ring me, here is my name, here is my number. | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
The idea small group of volunteers here, would-be volunteers, is the | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
sports centre. Last night they offered 300 beds for those who have | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
been evacuated from the houses and flats around Grenfell Tower. In the | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
end, about 40-50 people stayed in that sport centre, they had beds, | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
showers, booed. We are told that some people inside are incredibly | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
traumatised by what they witnessed, and there are mental health workers | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
and social workers who are on hand to talk to them. What is also | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
astonishing, 24 hours after that lays first began, there are still | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
parts of the building still alight. Firefighters are still there, they | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
have worked through the night again to dampen the fire at the block of | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
flats. 12 people officially dead, although that number is expected to | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
rise significantly, with many, many still missing. | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
They include Jessica Urbano Ramirez, a 12-year-old who's believed to have | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
become separated from her family when the blaze broke out. | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
Husna Begum, who lived on the 17th floor | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
and is missing with four other members of her family. | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
27-year-old Mariem Elgwahry, a marketing manager, | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
who is believed to have last spoken to someone | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
66-year-old retired lorry driver Tony Disson, | :06:08. | :06:14. | |
who lived on the 22nd floor of Grenfell Tower. | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Mo Tuccu, a British national from Eritrea, | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
who was visiting friends or family at the Grenfell Tower | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
with his wife Amalahmedin and three-year-old daughter Amayah. | :06:25. | :06:26. | |
They had gone to break their Ramadan fast. | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
24-year-old artist Khadija Saye, who lived on the 20th floor. | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
Labour MP David Lammy's wife was her employer and mentor. | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
He tweeted, "If you have any information about Khadija Saye, | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
"She is our dear friend, a beautiful soul and emerging artist." | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
Khadija's mother, Mary Mendy, is also missing. | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
Here's a reminder of the last 24 hours. | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
So mums, dads, a marketing manager, an artist, so it goes on, so many | :07:00. | :07:07. | |
people unaccounted for. As I mentioned, flames can still be seen | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
inside the tower block, here is a reminder of the last 24 hours. | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
A massive fire in a west London tower block, | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
many people are being treated for injuries. | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
Move right back, please! Thank you very much! | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
The movement of the fire across the entire building | :07:28. | :07:40. | |
didn't take more than half an hour, so I would say from 1:30am | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
until 2am was just about, by two o'clock it was all in flames. | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
Things falling out, people screaming, | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
Chucking ropes down what they'd made out of bed sheets | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
Just complete nightmare. Absolute nightmare. | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
people flashing their phone lights for help. | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
But the Fire Brigade can't get upstairs. | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
People like at their windows, "Help me, help me, help me." | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
And you could see the fire going into the house | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
and into the last room that they're in | :08:16. | :08:17. | |
and just engulfing their whole apartment. | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
because there was no other way to save them. | :08:21. | :08:31. | |
They were, from what I have heard, also people have picked | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
up their kids and thrown them out for the police to pick them up | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
because there was no other way out the building. | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
I'm very sad to confirm that there have been a number of fatalities. | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
It was like waking up in a horror film. | :08:45. | :08:46. | |
How did you get out, then, Michael? Just my wits. | :08:47. | :08:48. | |
I just, you know, I had to get her out. | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
I love them, so what was I going to do? | :08:52. | :08:53. | |
I'm not going to run on my own, so I made sure she was all right | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
with her breathing and I got down the stairs. | :08:58. | :08:59. | |
And when we got out and looked up, it was engulfed. | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
That's what I'm saying, if we was in there another five | :09:03. | :09:04. | |
minutes we wouldn't even have been able to get out. | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
With the thickness of the smoke that was coming up. | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
Seventh. Seven, yeah? | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
There's mothers that have come out and lost their children. | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
There are firefighters that have come out injured. | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
Like we don't know if there are even going to come out safe. | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
We saw lot. We saw a lot, man. | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
We saw, we saw a lot with our own eyes. | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
It's all right, you don't have to say any more. | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
You've got family who are on the 18th floor? | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
Yeah. And you spoke to them last night? | :09:42. | :09:42. | |
Yeah. And they were saying what? | :09:43. | :09:44. | |
Smoke. Can't get out because of the smoke. | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
So I suspect, I don't know what I would do if I was them, | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
Hoping that the Fire Brigade would get up there. | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
Because that's what they are told to do, isn't it? | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
They are told to stay in the flat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
So they would have stayed in there, waited and followed instructions. | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
Nothing else you can do from the 18th floor. | :10:07. | :10:08. | |
We don't know if they're alive or dead, | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
if they are in hospital or not. We have not any clue. | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
I just, I just want everything to be false and I don't want to... | :10:15. | :10:23. | |
Our focus now is search and rescue, | :10:24. | :10:25. | |
and then move to, I'm afraid, recovery. | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
And of course we've got to make sure in the meantime | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
we provide shelter to those who've had to flee their homes. | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
I've just come to offer my house, places to stay. | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
I can take about six to eight people in, for as long as they need it. | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
Just basically letting the community know to get together, | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
just to urge them to come, put their names down | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
for who can help and whatever they can offer, really. | :10:50. | :11:00. | |
WE HAVE SOME FIGURES JUST IN FROM NHS ENGLAND, AND THESE ARE to do | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
with people treated in hospitals across London. NHS England tell us | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
that King's College Hospital, they received ten patients, and six | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
remain critical. Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, they receive | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
nine patients, seven remain critical. At the Royal Three, six | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
patients, one critical. Guys and Saint Thomas, one admission, that | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
individual is not said to be in a critical condition. And that St | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
Mary's, 11 admission is, 11 patients, three of those patients | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
are critical. People who either got out themselves or were rescued from | :11:42. | :11:50. | |
Grenfell Tower. Let me introduce you now to two people, thank you very | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
much for talking to us. You have volunteered to help families in | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
particular who are searching for missing loved ones. How are you able | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
to help? I am helping by interpreting from Ethiopian | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
languages to English, and also the Eritrean community as well, to find | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
their missing loved ones. What about yourself? As the Muslim community, | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
we know that 90% of people living in the building were Islam, and most of | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
the missing people, they are families, families missing, so it is | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
a big hit for the Muslim community, but there is a whole missing from my | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
primary school, and I know another family in person, and all of that | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
missing as well, six people, three children, Mum, dad and the mother of | :12:53. | :13:02. | |
the mum, bisulphite or two girls Arabic language. When you are | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
talking about several Tom Bowker families, you are talking about | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
several generations. I know six families. Six families? We start to | :13:15. | :13:22. | |
receive the message, we have been passing messages to each other, and | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
all of that is passing between us as a community. And as you are doing | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
your translating, I mean, what sort of people are the families that you | :13:35. | :13:46. | |
are helping? I had a report of three families, all groups, and they don't | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
have any information on their whereabouts, if they are | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
hospitalised, they are not getting any information to tell us where | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
they are. And we are also looking for a five-year-old, and a | :14:01. | :14:11. | |
three-year-old girl. In terms of not getting information, so no-one | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
official, no-one in authority is talking to the families you are | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
helping? They are not giving us any information, they are not willing to | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
give information to tell us which hospital they are in, if they have | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
been admitted to any hospitals, or if they have been found, or if they | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
are alive. Is it possible they do not know themselves? There is that | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
possibility but I mean, it would be nice, you know, even no, we do not | :14:38. | :14:45. | |
know is an answer, and we haven't even got that kind of answer. The | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
families need to be told whether they do have some information or | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
whether they don't have the information. Sure, I understand, OK. | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
Thank you very much... We are angry as a community, because we think the | :15:00. | :15:08. | |
rescue teams could do more, people were stuck in the building, and I am | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
just wondering why they didn't, instead of just relying on rescue | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
from the ground. They should use something from the air, and they did | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
not. We think they could have saved a much more families. | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
The response has been from the community, rather than the local | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
council or the government, also, most people that have given aid and | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
come to give assistance are people of the community. Thank you, thank | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
you both, thank you. Introducing you now to lay the's | :15:43. | :15:54. | |
housing spokesman, John Healey. Good morning. Have you been to see the | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
block? I have not, I have been talking to firefighters who have | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
been there, and they have never seen anything like it in 30 years of | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
firefighting. It should never have happened, that is what people are | :16:13. | :16:14. | |
saying, it should never have happened. I guess the investigation | :16:15. | :16:23. | |
will tell us that, I'm very mindful, as we look at the wider concerns | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
today, many people are still missing, firefighters still trying | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
to get too many parts of the building, for the first time, | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
hundreds of people have lost everything, they are now homeless. | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
Bearing that in mind, what is also clear is that they, the residents, | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
and others, have really serious questions to put to ministers and | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
the people who run the building. What are the questions that you as a | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
politician would like to see answered, and quickly? For me, I'm | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
glad the Prime Minister is coming for herself this morning, I'm glad | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
she has announced a review, that must not be delayed, it really | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
should report before the summer. The government does not need to wait | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
before then -- until then, it can act on recommendations made by | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
coroners four years ago after the fire in Camberwell. First of all, | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
they can and should start installing sprinkler systems in some of the | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
higher risk high-rise blocks around the country, it should overhaul | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
building regulations which it promised to do four years ago, | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
finally, it really should make sure there is better clear advice and | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
information to residents in tower blocks about what to do in the awful | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
event that they are faced with fire. Theresa May is here. We are told. | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
Meeting firefighters and residents. Jeremy Corbyn is coming after that, | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
is that correct? I'm joining Jeremy Irons 11am, just after speaking with | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
you, we will speak with the firefighters, we will speak to some | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
of those who have been staffing these community rescue centres. One | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
of the things that the brand-new MP told you last night, when I spoke | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
with her, the support centres have been totally swamped with clothes, | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
blankets, food, and love, and that has been another remarkable | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
demonstration of how people pull together to help others, when the | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
very worst is faced. Why do you think the recommendations from the | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
fire in Camberwell in south London have not been implemented when that | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
fire was so many years ago? Ministers were clear at the time, | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
they rejected out of hand two recommendations, they said that they | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
would review the building regulations, which are the Bible for | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
designers, builders, those that build these buildings and do | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
refurbishments. The review has not been started. How do you know? The | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
latest Housing Minister confirmed in October they did not have a plan to | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
even start the review. It has been shelved, put on the shelf for four | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
years, it has not been started, no plan to start it, and that... That | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
is an urgent piece of work which could be done alongside getting on | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
with the business of retrofitting is the technical term, putting | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
sprinkler systems into high-rise blocks, starting with the once that | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
our highest risk, and that should be done... Should that be mandatory? It | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
should be started without delay, I have had confirmation that the calls | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
I have made and Labour has been making over the Minister to come to | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
the House of Commons this afternoon will happen. Our Parliament is | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
paralysed by the paralysis of Downing Street so cannot formally | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
meet until after the Queen's speech but a minister will come, there will | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
be a public session, he will make a statement, MPs, particularly those | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
that represent areas around here, have been working with people who | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
have been trying to deal with this terrible fire, they have a chance to | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
start asking some of the questions that people have been raising with | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
you, and raising with them. Thank you very much. John Healey, Labour's | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
housing spokesman. As you know, they were the first | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
ones in and some of the last out, praise and tributes continue to pour | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
in for the 200 firefighters who tackled and continued to tackle | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
yesterday's blaze in the most challenging circumstances. | :20:33. | :20:42. | |
Grateful Londoners cheered them in the street for their "selfless" | :20:43. | :20:44. | |
work to save men, women and children trapped as flames ripped | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
This Evening Standard photographer described the scene | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
Over the years working for the Evening Standard I have seen some | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
awful things but this has two rate as one of the worst. I felt | :20:58. | :21:07. | |
helpless. -- this has to rate as one of the worst. | :21:08. | :22:08. | |
Theresa May, the Prime Minister, has left the area around Grenfell Tower, | :22:09. | :22:16. | |
she has been here this morning, meeting residents and firefighters, | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
it was a private visit, no media was allowed. A short time ago, Dany | :22:20. | :22:31. | |
Cotton spoke to us and explain the latest. Terribly difficult inside | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
the building, difficult for people to comprehend when they look at the | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
building wife we cannot just go in, but due to the severity of the fire, | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
and what happened in those circumstances, that everything | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
inside all of those rooms basically ends up on the floor, in large | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
amounts of volume of staff, combined with the amount of water in there, | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
it becomes very difficult for officers to get in there and in | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
order to do a systematic and proper search, we need to make the building | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
safe so that officers can get in there and go through it. We are | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
aware that there are people unaccounted for, family and friends | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
are very distressed and need to know the whereabouts of loved ones. We | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
are doing everything we can to work as hard as we can with police and | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
other colleagues to make that happen. Can you tell us a little bit | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
about the immediate aftermath, when officers first arrived, what were | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
they able to do, what levels were they able to reach? Very early on in | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
the fire, my firefighters battled through intense heat, to reach some | :23:33. | :23:42. | |
of the higher floors. I spoke to a crew who had been to the 20th floor. | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
We targeted flats where we were getting calls where we knew where | :23:47. | :23:47. | |
people were. We committed crew of the crew into a | :23:48. | :24:12. | |
very dangerous and very hot situation because we had a passion | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
to do as much as we could to rescue the people in there. It was a very | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
challenging, very difficult, very traumatic event for everyone | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
involved. Have any of your officers been injured? We had minor injuries | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
yesterday, up to nine of my firefighters suffered minor burns. | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
Some heat exhaustion. I'm more concerned longer term | :24:33. | :24:48. | |
about the mental impact on a lot of people who were here, | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
because this event was unprecedented and people saw and heard | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
things on a scale they had Going forward, one of my main | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
concerns for firefighters is about mental well-being and doing trauma | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
care and counselling for them. I understand the point you made | :25:02. | :25:11. | |
about the difficult circumstances The figure of those confirmed dead, | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
the police figure, so far, 12 confirmed dead, they have warned | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
they expect that figure Unfortunately, this is the awful | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
thing for the people involved, we are unaware of how many people | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
are in the building, as you can appreciate, | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
this is a very large building with a large number | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
of people in there. Some people may have lived alone, | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
we are not sure if they are in there People who were reported missing | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
who subsequently may have been We are completely unaware | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
at the moment, we can only work with numbers | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
in the local authority and police As soon as we can, we will go | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
into the building and do the painstaking fingertip search | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
in conjunction with Had me introduce you to the general | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
secretary for the Fire Brigades union, also a firefighter for 22 | :26:05. | :26:13. | |
years, good morning, Matt Wrack, and Ronnie king, a firefighter for 40 | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
years in London, Wales, Scotland and a chief fire officer for 20 years | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
and is now a administrative secretary for the all party Fire | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
safety and rescue group. First of all, as former firefighters, can you | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
give an insight to the audience as to what it is like when you arrive | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
at the scene of a blaze like the one we saw yesterday? The first thing to | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
say, looking around the site, horrifying, we have not seen | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
anything like that, I certainly have not. I have been too many fires in | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
high-rise tower blocks but I have never seen anything like this. What | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
firefighters have been prepared for and train for is one thing but what | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
they saw here, completely different. You expect the fire to be contained | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
to the flat, the floor of origin. What we saw, as we have seen, the | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
entire building engulfed in flames, the people arriving first will have | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
been in complete shock and will not have been prepared for this, | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
absolutely staggering. Having been a fireman, and chief fire officer, I | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
have arrived at incidents were command decisions have been made and | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
it has got to a certain level of resources... In this case, I think | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
if I had arrived at that, and we got to the period where we are, where we | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
were, when perhaps the chief fire officer arrived, you would have then | :27:38. | :27:46. | |
expected a plan of attack, a strategy, and whether to concentrate | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
on water or rescue. There is a point reached where both run | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
simultaneously. Very stressful situation for everybody involved. I | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
can do nothing but praise firefighters and officers. Does it | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
surprise you, is it unusual that there are still blazes burning in | :28:11. | :28:18. | |
the centre of that block? No, clearly, what is remarkable is that | :28:19. | :28:20. | |
firefighters throughout that incident were on upper floors, | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
trying to rescue people, large numbers of people have been rescued, | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
horrendous loss of life, the work that firefighters do, rescuing large | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
numbers of people, is incredible. They are at the stage now, the final | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
stages of eliminating the last bits of fire, smoke, heat, the safety of | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
the building, the safety of the cruise becomes paramount as well. | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
There have been photographs of firefighters clearly very | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
emotionally affected by what they saw. Has that happened to you? | :28:56. | :29:03. | |
Firefighters have ways of dealing with these sorts of incidences. | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
There is a humour, a camaraderie, all of that plays a role. I suspect | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
every firefighter will have things that will stick with them for the | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
rest of their lives, incidents they have been to, particular horrors | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
they have seen. There is a greater awareness than when I was around and | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
Ronnie was around about mental health issues. There are better | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
counselling services than there was 20 years ago, or more. That is | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
something that great deal more effort needs to be put into in this | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
day and age. This stay put policy, to allow firefighters to get up | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
stairwells, so they are not impeded by people trying to get out in a | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
situation like that, does that stay put policy have to be reviewed, | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
after what happened at Grenfell Tower? It was reviewed after 2009, | :29:51. | :30:00. | |
Lakanal House, the inquest was 2013. It is a very difficult one. The | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
building, its fabric, its protection, is designed for people | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
to stay in their flats, for one hour, at least, you would expect the | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
flat not to be penetrated, you would expect the escape route of the | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
integral and people can escape safely, something obviously did not | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
their right here. Whether it was there were failings in the escape | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
route facilities, penetrations into the fire resistance... | :30:30. | :30:37. | |
There has been talk about the cladding and the effect of the | :30:38. | :30:45. | |
cladding on the building. Basically, London building acts were amended in | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
1986, and they were overtaken by the building regulations for the rest of | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
the UK - London falling in line with the rest of the UK. The outside wall | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
of a building, this building, would have hard and our's resistance under | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
the London building act. When it was replaced by the building | :31:07. | :31:08. | |
regulations, the building regulations only allow - or do allow | :31:09. | :31:17. | |
a surface which is a much weaker provision of fire resistance. In | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
fact, it is no fire as a stance on the outside. We have to revisit | :31:22. | :31:32. | |
that. Can I just interrupt? I am a layperson, I have no experience of | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
fire safety, but you are telling me that it is OK for the outside of a | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
building, the exterior of a building, to be a bit fire | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
resistant, but the whole thing doesn't have to be fire assistant, | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
is that what you are saying to me? That is right, yes. I don't | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
understand it. A building close by not to be affected by a fire in that | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
building, not for this building to be affected by a fire spreading | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
upwards and internally. So it really came out of Lakanal, but the coroner | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
ruled that was the appropriate legislation at the time, so it | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
complied. But what we have said, four years since the Lakanal House | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
fire, we have been saying successfully, successively sorry, | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
two ministers over the period of four years, to say we need to review | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
the regulations. What response have you had, if you have said it to four | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
ministers? Three ministers over four years, they say they are looking at | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
it. Fire deaths have gone down, and while there has been an opt in this | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
year, generally fire safety is a good news, but you get something | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
like this, you got a warning with Lakanal, and we have said you must | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
take steps. I mean, the coroner said we should be looking at automatic | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
fire sprinkler protection in buildings. 4000 high-rise flats in | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
the United Kingdom. 4000 tower blocks. Without sprinklers. That is | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
a scandal. If it was new, they would be installed? Yes, but the | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
regulations are for new buildings, or major refurbishments. But we need | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
to do a revisit, we have asked the ministers, they are saying, yes, we | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
are still looking at it. In fact, Gavin Barwell was about to meet the | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
all-party group. The former housing minister lost his job at the | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
election and has been made to me's chief of staff. Once the election | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
was announced, he had to say whether he was going to agree, we will now | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
revisit the regulations, that might have been what he was going to say. | :33:52. | :34:01. | |
Perhaps he will qualify that. We Avastin for an interview, so far | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
without success. Matt Wrack, you are from the Fire Brigades Union, some | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
are linking the closure of ten fire stations with the loss of 552 jobs, | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
made by the former Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, with what happened at | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
Grenfell Tower. You, however, are very cautious about making that | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
link, as I understand it. We have still got an incident going on, | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
there are still people missing, still people doing their job, and I | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
think we need to concentrate on that. I want to separate the two | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
issues at this stage, the whole thing needs to be investigated, and | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
clearly we were opposed to those reductions, we think they made | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
London is less safe. Whether it has had a direct impact on this incident | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
I cannot stay at this stage. In terms of this incident, echoing | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
Ronnie's point, the question arises, how can it even happen? We will find | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
out this was an avoidable tragedy, and that is horrifying in a wealthy | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
country, that this can happen. Why do you think we will find out it was | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
avoidable? As Ronnie has just explained, there is huge amount of | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
expertise around buildings, how they react in fires, how you can detect | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
them, and what needs to be put in place. Within the Fire Service, | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
there is a huge amount of expertise about how you deal with buyers when | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
they happen. If those are put together, we can significantly | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
reduce the risk to residents living in accommodation like that. | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
Something has gone horrifyingly wrong for us to be standing here | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
today. Our reporter spoke to the architect of Grenfell Tower, who | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
said it was in Cumbria and support to him that the fire spread in the | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
way it did. -- who said it was incomprehensible to him that the | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
fire spread in the way it did. What should the mayor do? He has said | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
that this needs to be thoroughly investigated. There is a huge amount | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
of support, fantastic community solidarity which is great to see, | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
and a whole estate has been... It is very eerie over there, the whole | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
state has been evacuated. People need immediate support, so the | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
authorities, the mayor need to do that. In terms of the incident, I | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
think this has to be very thoroughly addressed, and all interested | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
parties, including Ronnie and his colleagues, ourselves, community | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
groups, people who have lived there, have copyright to ask very | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
challenging questions about why this happened. Could it have been | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
foreseen? Could it have been prevented? Matt Wrack, general | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, and Ronnie King, chair of the | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
all-party fire and safety rescue group. Good morning, it is 10:36, I | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
mentioned those patients who are continuing to be treated in | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
hospital, many of them still in a critical condition. We can talk to | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
Tulip Mazumdar, who is outside St Mary's Hospital, what is the latest | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
from there? Well, we have been given an update from NHS England, who have | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
been letting us note the situation of the patients in the five London | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
hospitals that are still caring for patients from this dreadful buyer. | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
37 patients are still receiving hospital treatment. -- this dreadful | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
fire. 17 are still in critical care. I can give you a breakdown here | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
there are the most number of patients being treated, 11, three of | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
which are in critical care. King's College Hospital, not far from here, | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
ten patients, six of them in critical care. Chelsea and | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
Westminster is treating nine patients, seven of them are in | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
critical care. The Royal Free was looking after six patients, one of | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
them is in critical care. And guys and Saint Thomas's is looking after | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
one patient, and that patient is not in critical care. So clearly, | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
doctors and nurses, all the medics here and in those other four | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
hospitals, working very hard from overnight on Tuesday into Wednesday, | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
and all day yesterday as well as today. This has been a really | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
desperate situation for many people who have been coming and looking for | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
family. There is still a lot of confusion. The doctors here have | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
been treating patients mainly for smoke inhalation, so patients will | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
be getting oxygen, some of them, we understand, in other hospitals, are | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
being put and general anaesthetic so they can be treated as comfortably | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
as possible. But really, at this point, time is ticking now to find | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
more people. Like I said, families have been coming here desperate to | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
find out if their family members are here, desperately searching, but as | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
time goes on, it is becoming less likely that people will be coming in | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
for treatment. And I think you have managed to speak to a couple of | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
people as they have been going into the hospital. Yes, Victoria, it has | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
just been a really harrowing morning, I have to say. I mean, I | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
was here yesterday as well, and we saw families coming in, there was a | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
man just behind me at the entrance, and he was shouting, he was saying, | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
we are not getting any information, I don't know where my loved ones | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
are. Today, similar scenes, but really much more difficult, there | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
was a family that just parked up over there, we saw them leaving the | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
hospital, a woman was wailing, she was so upset. She was being | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
comforted by other family members. We heard her, before we saw her, and | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
her screams were so chilling. We went over, and we ask that they were | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
OK, how they were as a family, whether they had received any | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
information. They were asking us if we had received any information, and | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
they claim to us that they were looking for a mother, the mother's | :40:21. | :40:28. | |
name is Burkit Haftom, they were looking for her and her son, | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
12-year-old Birok Haftom, they were desperately searching for them. They | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
have gone from hospital to hospital, it seems that St Mary's were the | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
last hospital they had been to, and they were told by police, if your | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
family members are not here or at the other hospitals, if you have not | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
heard from them so far, then I am afraid you have to assume the worst, | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
that they were in that building. I saw them when they had me that | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
realisation, that they are not here, this was the last place they could | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
have been, and they are not here. The look on their faces, the other | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
devastation, they were so upset. They didn't know what to do, they | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
said to me, can you help us? Is there anything I could do, I said I | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
would say their names on BBC News, Burkit Haftom is the mother, the | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
12-year-old son is Birok Haftom. You know, everybody would be out looking | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
for them, and family are already, but as time goes on, we are now | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
several hours, you know, overnight, all of yesterday, overnight today, | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
if those family members have not turned up, the police have advised | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
that chances are they are in that building. And coming to that | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
realisation has clearly been extremely difficult for them, and | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
they are being that by their family. They drove away just without | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
knowledge that they didn't actually know where they were going what they | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
were going to do. I also managed to a lady, also a friend of that | :42:00. | :42:10. | |
family, she was here seeing her friend Helen and their 12-year-old | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
daughter, who is in intensive care. She was said to be extremely unwell, | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
and I spoke to a friend of her mother's earlier, her name is Chesmi | :42:21. | :42:33. | |
Rodrigo. She is in I -- ICU, she doesn't know not. We have just seen | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
her extended family that you have gone to see, just utterly | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
distraught. How are you? How is the community? I don't know, really, I | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
don't know what to say, you know, I am really stressed, really | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
disappointed, I couldn't believe what happened to them. I saw them | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
yesterday, so I couldn't believe, it was like a dream, you know? So I | :43:02. | :43:13. | |
really can't believe these things. We have all seen the pictures, for | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
you, this is so close to home, how were you last night? Were you able | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
to sleep? No, I couldn't sleep, actually, I have two children, so I | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
couldn't sleep, I was crying at the same time, one o'clock, so I was | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
crying, screaming, in my house, you know? Even my children, then we came | :43:35. | :43:42. | |
around at three o'clock new building, so we found Helen over | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
there around four o'clock. That is very, very upsetting. I have just | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
been looking at my timeline on Twitter, a number of you are | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
unpressed by the fact that he may, the Prime Minister, is here in a | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
private capacity. That simply means that cameras are not allowed there. | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
We are told that she has met residents and firefighters. She left | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
at about 10:20, having arrived just before ten o'clock. Caroline says, | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
the Prime Minister makes a private visit, what a joke, total lack of | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
respect for those involved. Another, this is from Nusat, disgusting that | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
the Prime Minister is visiting in private, what is the point? A number | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
of you would like to praise the firefighters, you have messaged me | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
on Twitter to say what they have done is absolutely astonishing. | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
Thank you for those, you can use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE if you want to | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
get in touch. I'm going to introduce you to a QC, Joe, nice to talk to | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
you, tell us why you are here. A lot of people are going to have | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
complicated problems to sort out, problems today, where are people | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
going to live, how are people going to survive, what about your | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
employment, your job? What is your employer going to say? What about | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
people who haven't got insurance? What about that period of time | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
before your insurers pay out? Those are all really complicated problems, | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
and there is something that lawyers - and stressful - and there is | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
something that lawyers can do to help with those problems. And then | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
tomorrow, you know, people are going to start to wonder about how they | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
put their lives back together, and there is also something, a small | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
thing, that lawyers can do to help that process. Making sure that legal | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
accountability, moral accountability rests where it should. | :45:46. | :45:47. | |
I'm going to Paul's you there, you are not an ambulance chaser... ? Me, | :45:48. | :45:58. | |
hundreds of other lawyers, at the North Kensington law centre, housing | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
lawyers, employment lawyers, personal injury lawyers, people want | :46:03. | :46:18. | |
to help. -- I'm going to pause you there. There is a role for the law, | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
people will not be able to find accountability without the help of | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
lawyers, many will want to do it for free because this... They recognise | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
this is... It is very difficult to be here and not feel very upset | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
about it all. If people would like your help, how should they get in | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
touch with you, you are from the Good Law Project and the North | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
Kensington law centre. The first thing to be done, triage, people | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
need to have their particular problems broken down for them. | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
Housing problem, employment problem, insurance issue, so far as I can see | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
at the moment, people doing that job best of all are the North Kensington | :47:03. | :47:09. | |
law centre, and I have tweeted out their contact details. After this, I | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
am going to go there and see what help they need from lawyers. Then I | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
will get in touch with all the lawyers I speak with and tell them | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
that if you want to be able to help, that is the best way. In the longer | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
term, the problems about accountability, the lessons to be | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
learned, the law has some part to play, but you have to hope that the | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
government recognises the problem, and has a public enquiry. So that | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
this never happens again. Thank you very much for joining us. | :47:42. | :47:56. | |
This place is much busier than when we first came on error, I am going | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
to take a look around, I have not done that for a while, inside the | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
basketball court, right next to the Westway Sports Centre, there were | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
hundreds of bags and now dozens of volunteers, tidying through those | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
donations. Trying to get them in some sort of order. And here, | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
volunteers arriving to either sign in or, if they have enough | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
volunteers, to leave a name and number to be contacted, tonight, | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
tomorrow, the weekend, that is where they are leaving contact details, | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
people saying, I want to help, I want to do something, call on me at | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
any point. Let me introduce you to some or residence. Emily, do come | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
in. I'm Victoria, nice to see you. And Amina, I beg your pardon, it is | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
my writing! Sorry. I'm Victoria, nice to meet you. Do come in. Lovely | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
to meet you. I have a microphone, just one between us. How are you | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
today? Upset. Yeah, upset. Not well, angry, angry. Very angry. Yeah, very | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
angry. What's happened is disgusting. It could have been | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
prevented, it could have been prevented. You know, you have got | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
all them innocent people that have died, that are seriously ill in | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
hospital, and it is a joke, it is a joke. Like I said, a lot more could | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
have been done, a lot more could have been done. What do you think | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
could have been done? The housing association, they could have done a | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
lot more. The management organisation who ran it... Yeah, to | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
be quite honest, TMO, they do not care about their tenants whatsoever. | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
I know people that are in TMO, such as my daughter, and I know this is | :50:04. | :50:11. | |
irrelevant to what has happened, but... I'm going to Paul's you, I | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
want to talk about the people of Grenfell Tower, if I may. My | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
anger... You can ask him, and then come back. We have been let down by | :50:23. | :50:31. | |
the council. The tenant management organisation, where are they? | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
Everyone is pulling together, it is the community, I have not seen | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
anyone! I have not seen any support... I live directly opposite. | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
Saw I it... I smell the fire, 12:30am, I came out, and I can | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
literally see people in the windows, banging, children screaming. I have | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
heard grown men literally on fire, banging at the windows until the | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
windows were full of smoke. Standing there, I cannot do anything. Even | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
until now, I have not seen any kind of support will stop everyone is | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
trying to get a story and understand what is going on, but people feel | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
let down. We don't seem to have that support. We don't seem to get any | :51:19. | :51:25. | |
feedback from the council, where are they? For what it's worth, for what | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
it's worth, I saw the council leader, yesterday morning, first | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
thing, I saw a clip of one of the guys who runs the particular | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
management organisation. I saw a clip of him on the news. If he came | :51:41. | :51:48. | |
here, what would you say to him? To be honest, I am a tenant, whenever | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
there is a repair, whenever there is something, it is always | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
cost-cutting, always a delay, it is hogwash, we have heard it all | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
before. Where do you go? They keep people waiting. So many families | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
have not even been told there is missing. I have family there, we | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
don't know where they are, very close friends, my wife has friends | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
there, relatives... I know one family, five kids and the mother are | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
missing. Five children! On the 22nd, 21st floor. Ten and under. My | :52:29. | :52:37. | |
daughter goes to a school down the road, Oxford Garden School... Half | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
the class...! Sermon each order not in, so money children unaccounted | :52:44. | :52:50. | |
for. -- so many children not in. It should be at schools as well. Even | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
the teachers dealing with this, massive impact, for them, for the | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
children... My daughter's best friend, we know, gone. They went in | :52:59. | :53:05. | |
together only a couple of days ago. This is sad and shocking. My anger | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
is totally different, my anger... I was here since the blaze happened, | :53:13. | :53:21. | |
and I was on... On the side of the building, I was told there was only | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
a few police officers, don't get me wrong, I don't have problems with | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
police officers, the only police officers were there, 40 minutes | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
later, came more police officers. Let me get that straight. I don't | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
know about the building, personally I don't know nobody from that block, | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
maybe a friend of a friend, I know my son's friends, they are all dead, | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
I don't have a personal contact. I don't have a problem with the | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
structure of the building, I don't know about that, but when I was | :53:54. | :53:55. | |
there yesterday, and what I have seen, I was there on the bridge, to | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
the building, I told people to jump, to get off, to put the kids throw | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
the kids, wanted to get mattresses... Police were pushing us | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
away, fathers were coming from the prayer, they had to see their | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
children and their wives on the window, hopeless, can do anything. | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
We said, it is burning on the side, just starting, get the people of | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
that side of the building. Police were saying, don't, go away, we are | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
dealing with this. They pushed us from the bridge, all the way down, | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
we ran around to the car wash, we have seen the fire, coming upwards, | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
and then gradually, going on the roof, by then, there was more time | :54:36. | :54:44. | |
that people could get off. Lease offices and parents on the | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
telephone, they have been told stay in your property. -- police | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
officers. They were told to stay in the property. It is dangerous? | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
Sorry, it was not, my iPhone does not lie about the timing. They had | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
time to escape, they were on the windows screaming and shouting, the | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
fire happened from the outside in. It did not happen from the inside | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
out, and the outside in, they have plenty of time. The firemen came two | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
hours later, could not even park their car anyway to get access | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
through, so they came all the way through, but their car there. And | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
then they took the water by the time they did that, for 20 5am, and I had | :55:26. | :55:33. | |
them recorded. Before that, 2am, we saw all the children crying, | :55:34. | :55:45. | |
shouting, screaming, because we were hopeless. Like a piece of paper, | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
when you burn it from one side to the other, that is exactly what we | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
saw happen to them full. One minute they were there, the next minute | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
they were gone. My next-door neighbour works as a fire crews man, | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
she said they have not confirmed that 50 children are dead but more | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
than 50 children are dead. More than 100 bodies are dead. Look at that | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
building, are you telling me 12 people?! The police... In the | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
beginning, I was there with the police officers, they only had one | :56:21. | :56:28. | |
staircase one! Hands shaking, one? I am not related to them, I don't know | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
them, I don't care if they are juries, Muslim, Christian, you see | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
someone burning, the first thing you want to do is to go and grab them. | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
More Muslims are feeling that this is a revenge. I'm telling you how I | :56:41. | :56:51. | |
feel. Revenge for what? London Bridge and stuff like that, they are | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
going to think this is a revenge, I am telling you how people feel. | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
People will not say what they are feeling because they are scared. I | :56:59. | :57:07. | |
don't have any relation. I cannot tell you how I feel. We have a very | :57:08. | :57:21. | |
short amount of time left. Friends missing, that is what I am bringing | :57:22. | :57:38. | |
him in. You have friends missing. How are you? I'm hoping for the | :57:39. | :57:48. | |
best. People searching. Still no trace. So much love and positivity | :57:49. | :57:58. | |
and strength... Being directed to you from around the country right | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
now. Thank you so much. And cute. Thank you for speaking with us. | :58:06. | :58:06. | |
Thank you, we appreciate it. A message from Kerrygold on | :58:07. | :58:17. | |
Facebook, as a high-rise tenant I'm deeply troubled, we do not get | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
listened to when we raise concerns. Also, the block is due to have an | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
upgrade on the outside to make it look appealing, but these flats are | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
tiny and severely overcrowded, not just with residents but with | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
possessions, because there is no storage, it is a fire risk and they | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
don't care. They only want to paper over problems with housing with | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
external makeovers. So many people have needlessly died at Grenfell | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
Tower, it is criminal. Let's bring you this police conference. Due to | :58:51. | :58:57. | |
the nature of the content in the building and | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
some areas that are | :59:01. | :59:01. |