15/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


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15/06/2017

Victoria is in west London getting analysis and reaction to the Tower block fire.


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LineFromTo

Hello, it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock.

:00:10.:00:11.

I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:00:12.:00:14.

The blackened shell that is Grenfell Tower

:00:15.:00:16.

is all that remains of yesterday's horror.

:00:17.:00:24.

The death toll at the moment stands at 12,

:00:25.:00:31.

though it's expected to rise significantly.

:00:32.:00:35.

My mum, my sister, her daughters and her husband.

:00:36.:00:37.

Yeah, they're all still in the building.

:00:38.:00:39.

I don't know if they're out because we don't have any information.

:00:40.:00:50.

So many questions continue to be asked about what caused the blaze,

:00:51.:00:56.

how this could happen, what can be done to ensure it never happens

:00:57.:01:01.

again. It will allow fire to spread up, and what will happen is it will

:01:02.:01:06.

create a path for the fire to spread and encourage the fire to spread

:01:07.:01:08.

faster and more intensely. The original architect

:01:09.:01:11.

of the building tells this programme he has serious concerns

:01:12.:01:14.

about the recent refurbishment. That raises real questions about the

:01:15.:01:28.

fire safety checks that were in place to stop families getting hurt.

:01:29.:01:33.

Also, firefighters have worked through the night to dampen ablaze,

:01:34.:01:37.

although some parts of the building on the upper floors remain alight.

:01:38.:01:42.

The fire Brigade say the tower block is not structurally safe for them to

:01:43.:01:47.

enter in some places. Meanwhile, local people continue to offer help

:01:48.:01:51.

to those left destitute and homeless, this is where the relief

:01:52.:01:55.

effort is being co-ordinated, and as you can see, there are piles of

:01:56.:02:01.

clothes and toys that people have donated. We have also donated some

:02:02.:02:07.

money, given money to families, Darren withdrew ?1000 from his

:02:08.:02:11.

account, and we have been giving families ?100 just to see them over

:02:12.:02:12.

the next couple of days. Good morning from North Kensington.

:02:13.:02:32.

This morning we are at the Westway sports centre on one of their

:02:33.:02:36.

basketball courts. You might be able to hear the traffic, we are just

:02:37.:02:40.

under the Westway, the A40, one of the main arterial routes into the

:02:41.:02:45.

capital, and here on this basketball court, people have donated so much

:02:46.:02:50.

for those who lost everything in the fire at Grenfell Tower. Let me show

:02:51.:02:53.

you some of the things that have been donated, look at those hundreds

:02:54.:03:00.

and hundreds of pairs of shoes for teenagers, for young adults. Over

:03:01.:03:05.

here, you can see the toys that have been donated for children, for

:03:06.:03:09.

toddlers in particular down here, and the young girls, and then over

:03:10.:03:16.

here the cuddly toys, and also bags and bags of books. Now, volunteers

:03:17.:03:24.

spent much of yesterday, and most of the evening actually last night,

:03:25.:03:28.

working through the night, to get these donations into some kind of

:03:29.:03:31.

order, and you can see they have managed to do that. Here, piles of

:03:32.:03:37.

Gilles' vests, dozens of them. Next to that, girls the' shirts, boys be'

:03:38.:03:46.

jackets, underwear, socks, and so it goes on. If we can just show you a

:03:47.:03:55.

360 degrees... Look at this, clothing donations for fire victims.

:03:56.:04:00.

360 degrees around this basketball court, you can see how much stuff,

:04:01.:04:04.

and this is just one area where people have donated, just one area.

:04:05.:04:09.

Right next to me is the actual sports centre which is a relief

:04:10.:04:13.

centre at effectively for people evacuated not from the tower itself,

:04:14.:04:17.

but from surrounding homes and lives. And they provided beds for

:04:18.:04:26.

300 last night. 40-50 people stayed in the end, many of them still

:04:27.:04:29.

inside, many of them completely traumatised by what they witnessed.

:04:30.:04:33.

There are mental health workers inside, I am told, social workers

:04:34.:04:37.

inside, trying to help people come to terms with the fact that they may

:04:38.:04:42.

have lost loved ones in the tower. Everybody says they have been

:04:43.:04:45.

overwhelmed by support from the people who live in North Kensington.

:04:46.:04:52.

The volunteers at these relief centres are saying, thank you for

:04:53.:04:55.

everything you have donated, but we do not need any more for the moment.

:04:56.:05:00.

What they need of volunteers during the day, because so many people are

:05:01.:05:04.

having to go to work today, having stayed off yesterday. So they are

:05:05.:05:12.

asking for volunteers from 9-5. I mean, the big question, when you

:05:13.:05:15.

talk to people, it is much quieter this morning, it really is, you

:05:16.:05:19.

know, the people I have spoken to, they just want to know why - they

:05:20.:05:27.

just want to know why, how it is that something can happen like this

:05:28.:05:32.

in a tower block in 2017. I am really keen to hear from you today -

:05:33.:05:37.

if you live in a high-rise block of flats, I want to know if you are

:05:38.:05:44.

confident today that your agency, your association, your management

:05:45.:05:46.

organisation, whoever looks after you, whether it is the council,

:05:47.:05:50.

whoever, are you confident they have done all that they can to keep you

:05:51.:05:56.

safe? I really want to hear from you this morning, do get in touch in the

:05:57.:05:57.

usual ways, Twitter, e-mail. They include Jessica Urbano Ramirez,

:05:58.:06:04.

a 12-year-old who's believed to have become separated from her family

:06:05.:06:12.

when the blaze broke out. Husna Begum, who lived

:06:13.:06:16.

on the 17th floor and is missing with four other

:06:17.:06:18.

members of her family. 27-year-old Mariem Elgwahry,

:06:19.:06:22.

a marketing manager, who is believed to have last spoken

:06:23.:06:31.

to someone 66-year-old retired lorry driver

:06:32.:06:33.

Tony Disson, who lived Mo Tuccu, a British national

:06:34.:06:38.

from Eritrea, who was visiting friends or

:06:39.:06:42.

family at the Grenfell Tower with his wife Amalahmedin

:06:43.:06:45.

and three-year-old daughter Amayah. They had gone to break

:06:46.:06:47.

their Ramadan fast. 24-year-old artist Khadija Saye,

:06:48.:06:49.

who lived on the 20th floor. Labour MP David Lammy's wife

:06:50.:06:53.

was her employer and mentor. He tweeted, "If you have any

:06:54.:06:57.

information about Khadija Saye, "She is our dear friend, a beautiful

:06:58.:06:59.

soul and emerging artist." Khadija's mother, Mary Mendy,

:07:00.:07:08.

is also missing. The official number of

:07:09.:07:10.

dead stands at 12, although the police say

:07:11.:07:16.

they expect that to rise significantly during a long

:07:17.:07:18.

and complex recovery operation. Firefighters are continuing to

:07:19.:07:20.

tackle pockets of fire in the block. I mean, that is astonishing, over 24

:07:21.:07:32.

hours since the fire broke out, and there are still claims in that

:07:33.:07:40.

building. Let me introduce you to Harris Iqbal, who is here, good

:07:41.:07:45.

morning. I'm Victoria, nice to meet you. Tell our audience how you have

:07:46.:07:52.

been helping. We are an international humanitarian

:07:53.:07:55.

organisation that works in crisis hit countries around the world, and

:07:56.:08:02.

we have been here since the onset of this emergency providing hot food,

:08:03.:08:07.

hot food provisions, blankets, pillows, necessary essentials for

:08:08.:08:10.

families to keep going in a very difficult time. I wonder, if you

:08:11.:08:15.

would be so kind as to show some of the... I have mentioned to the

:08:16.:08:18.

audience some of the things that have been donated, but if we can

:08:19.:08:23.

walk down here, you can talk through. What are people saying to

:08:24.:08:29.

you? The community response has been overwhelming, you can see the very

:08:30.:08:32.

generous donations that have come in all sorts of forms, from clothing to

:08:33.:08:42.

baby kit, nappies. You can see around you, also saw things that

:08:43.:08:46.

have been distributed and provided for the families that have been

:08:47.:08:49.

affected. We are currently at a stage where we are at capacity and

:08:50.:08:54.

unable to accept anymore, but the response has been. Right. Why do you

:08:55.:09:01.

think that is? I think the British community, that is something we are

:09:02.:09:04.

exceptionally good at, at times of difficulty, times of catastrophe,

:09:05.:09:09.

and this is very much a humanitarian crisis, you know, the way

:09:10.:09:13.

communities pulled together is amazing, and over the last couple of

:09:14.:09:19.

hours and days it has been a fine example of communities coming

:09:20.:09:23.

together. There are some very traumatised people who are perhaps

:09:24.:09:29.

only now absorbing the fact that they have lost a loved one in that

:09:30.:09:34.

hour. Absolutely. There are a number of families who are grieving at the

:09:35.:09:37.

moment, there are those who still have loved ones that are missing,

:09:38.:09:41.

and others who have lost their homes, livelihoods and belongings.

:09:42.:09:46.

And so it is a very distressing and upsetting time. We are providing

:09:47.:09:51.

emotional support, and we will continue to do so over the next

:09:52.:10:01.

couple of days. I am going to introduce Anne Johnson, good

:10:02.:10:06.

morning, nice to see you. Nice to meet you too. You live around here?

:10:07.:10:10.

What are you thinking about what has happened? I don't think anything for

:10:11.:10:20.

what has happened, it is what I saw. It was around... Yeah, it must have

:10:21.:10:25.

been around 12:45 in the morning, I heard a lot of commotion, obviously

:10:26.:10:31.

it work me up, so I got up to see what was going on. And from my front

:10:32.:10:35.

door, I could see the building on the top was on fire. And within half

:10:36.:10:42.

an hour, but by from the top down to the bottom, and then from the top of

:10:43.:10:48.

the building, it started spreading, like from the top to the end. At the

:10:49.:10:57.

very top of the building, I saw around about six children all crying

:10:58.:11:06.

for help. Within I would say by 1:30, from the top of the building

:11:07.:11:12.

halfway down, smoke just got into the flats, everything went black,

:11:13.:11:18.

and you never saw anybody again. Many people were hanging out their

:11:19.:11:25.

verandas, screaming for help, waving their telephones, T-shirts,

:11:26.:11:28.

anything, just to say, we are here, we need help, we need attention. By

:11:29.:11:34.

around three o'clock, that whole building from the top nearly to the

:11:35.:11:41.

bottom was gone and on fire. I don't know how many survivors made it, but

:11:42.:11:45.

from what I saw there was not a lot that made it out. How does that

:11:46.:11:52.

happen in this country, in this year? I mean, in 2017, in a modern

:11:53.:12:00.

economy, the capital city? To be honest with you, I don't have an

:12:01.:12:04.

answer for that, to completely honest with you. I have heard a lot

:12:05.:12:09.

of stories, a fridge freezer or... I am sorry, a fridge freezer cannot

:12:10.:12:13.

take a whole building down. It is no normal. Something is wrong

:12:14.:12:22.

somewhere, but I cannot tell you what... No, I am just... Do you feel

:12:23.:12:29.

angry? I feel angry that I saw people dying in front of my eyes, I

:12:30.:12:34.

saw kids and a woman, and kids this age hanging from windows with

:12:35.:12:40.

teddies. And that angered me, and nobody could help them. That really

:12:41.:12:46.

angered me. Cos as a mother myself, I mean, the tears in my eyes were

:12:47.:12:54.

unbelievable. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, women, children,

:12:55.:12:58.

grown men, didn't even know what to do apart from hang out the windows

:12:59.:13:04.

and scream and shout. And there was no help. I think there was help

:13:05.:13:09.

there, but nobody could get to them, that fire was so severe, it was

:13:10.:13:15.

unbelievable. We are hearing, my colleagues at the BBC are hearing

:13:16.:13:18.

that the Prime Minister, Theresa May, is going to visit the area

:13:19.:13:23.

today. What is your reaction to that? What is she going to do? She

:13:24.:13:26.

should have done their job right in the first place and this wouldn't

:13:27.:13:30.

have happened. I mean, a lot of people are saying it is from the

:13:31.:13:34.

buildings, you know? But at the end of the day, the way I see it,

:13:35.:13:38.

Theresa May is nothing to do with the building, but the politics never

:13:39.:13:47.

gives a damn about Ladbroke growth area, do they? Wide you say that?

:13:48.:13:51.

Well, if you look at what Chelsea has to offer, it has everything to

:13:52.:13:55.

other, they have more in Chelsea than what we do here. Which comes

:13:56.:14:02.

under the Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council. But there is a lot

:14:03.:14:09.

more down in Chelsea. Why do you think that is, Anne? I don't know!

:14:10.:14:14.

Maybe because it is the layers of the rich people. And here? Yes, EU

:14:15.:14:27.

is -- here is is middle-class, my God, why are we getting into

:14:28.:14:32.

politics? I am interested, you have lived here for a long time, you saw

:14:33.:14:38.

what happened. It was very sad. Very, very sad. I don't know what

:14:39.:14:44.

Theresa May is going to do, unless she has got another block of flats

:14:45.:14:51.

to no make these people homeless, because we have enough in United

:14:52.:14:57.

Kingdom. Thank you very much, Anne. Anne, a local resident. Paris, how

:14:58.:15:04.

do you react back at the Prime Minister will be visiting today?

:15:05.:15:09.

It is a distressing time for all of us, at times like this we need to

:15:10.:15:14.

unite and let those affected know that we stand together and they have

:15:15.:15:19.

our support. For the Prime Minister is sitting, I'm sure that will be of

:15:20.:15:23.

some solace to those communities affected. It is a difficult time and

:15:24.:15:33.

a very distressing time. Harrowing stories, accounts that I have heard,

:15:34.:15:39.

first town. Coming together now as a British community, and provide the

:15:40.:15:41.

essential aid and support that we need and befriending is absolutely

:15:42.:15:49.

priceless. Thank you very much for speaking with us.

:15:50.:16:04.

Dominating the skyline, this community, the black skeleton of

:16:05.:16:10.

Grenfell Tower, dark, empty, firefighters have been there through

:16:11.:16:14.

the night, there are still flames, we are told, on the upper stories,

:16:15.:16:19.

and structurally there are parts which are unsafe for firefighters to

:16:20.:16:22.

enter into, and so many questions, as you would expect, about what

:16:23.:16:27.

caused the fire and why it took also quickly. Still burning over 24 hours

:16:28.:16:29.

on. That building went up so fast. How?

:16:30.:16:52.

Why? A lot of questions to be asked. The first of which, were there even

:16:53.:16:54.

the most basic fire safety precautions.

:16:55.:16:59.

All of a sudden, I heard my door, bang, bang, bang.

:17:00.:17:02.

Evacuate? Evacuate.

:17:03.:17:04.

Residents who survived were woken up by each other, not fire alarms.

:17:05.:17:12.

Ran down the stairs, we were on the seventh,

:17:13.:17:15.

as we were running down, we've gone to the fourth floor

:17:16.:17:17.

But the fire alarm that was going off wouldn't

:17:18.:17:24.

It weren't loud, it weren't, you know, it weren't

:17:25.:17:28.

There was no fire alarm at all. No fire alarm that you could hear?

:17:29.:17:32.

Another question mark hangs over evacuation procedures.

:17:33.:17:35.

If I listened to the advice given to me by the fire brigade and also

:17:36.:17:39.

by the TMO management team we could be dead.

:17:40.:17:41.

They'd been told, in the event of a fire, to stay put.

:17:42.:17:44.

This was one of my main concerns about living in a tower block.

:17:45.:17:47.

On Saturday we did have the fire brigade team come around and speak

:17:48.:17:50.

Check alarms to make sure they are working.

:17:51.:18:01.

Just this Saturday? Just this Saturday.

:18:02.:18:02.

Seriously? Yeah.

:18:03.:18:03.

Yeah. And they told us the protocol

:18:04.:18:05.

was to close your door because the fire door will withstand

:18:06.:18:07.

the heat for a duration of time. We know that for Grenfell Tower,

:18:08.:18:10.

that period of time is 30 minutes. Yet people were waiting

:18:11.:18:13.

far, far longer. They were saying what?

:18:14.:18:15.

Smoke. Hoping that the fire

:18:16.:18:19.

brigade would get up there. Because that is what

:18:20.:18:27.

they're told to isn't it? So they would have stayed in there,

:18:28.:18:29.

waiting and following instructions. Nothing else you can do

:18:30.:18:35.

from the 18th floor. My mum and my infant sister was,

:18:36.:18:37.

they were there for five hours. Because the fire brigade

:18:38.:18:41.

told them just to wait My mum was panicking,

:18:42.:18:43.

I was panicking. Flats should be fire

:18:44.:18:46.

resistant cells. So a fire should burn itself

:18:47.:18:47.

out without spreading. Tower blocks aren't designed

:18:48.:18:50.

for everyone to evacuate in one go. Which is why it's considered safer

:18:51.:18:52.

to stay in your flat. The fact that on this occasion it

:18:53.:18:55.

wasn't raises another big question. Why did the outside of the tower

:18:56.:18:58.

block catch fire so easily? Grenfell Tower was

:18:59.:19:01.

refurbished in 2016. The cladding was supplied by this

:19:02.:19:02.

company, Harley Facades. You'd expect a cladding system

:19:03.:19:10.

to prevent the fire spreading up You expect the cladding itself to be

:19:11.:19:12.

noncombustible and you'd expect there to be fire stops,

:19:13.:19:24.

fire breaks at each floor level to prevent it acting effectively

:19:25.:19:26.

like a chimney and allowing the fire to spread all the way up

:19:27.:19:29.

the outside of the building. One theory is the fire could have

:19:30.:19:35.

spread through the cladding. over Kensington and Chelsea Tenant

:19:36.:19:43.

Management Organisation Last year KCTMO put its fire safety

:19:44.:19:52.

policy under review. Meanwhile residents

:19:53.:19:57.

in the Grenfell Action Group warned They said a catastrophic event

:19:58.:19:59.

will expose the ineptitude We can speak with our reporter, Jim

:20:00.:20:24.

Reed, looking into some of the questions that need answering. Of

:20:25.:20:30.

course, the first, how could this happen? Exactly, investigators are

:20:31.:20:35.

going to spend months, if not longer, looking into the causes of

:20:36.:20:39.

the fire. At this early stage, people are looking at the speed at

:20:40.:20:43.

which the fire spread, simply should not happen in a modern tower block,

:20:44.:20:48.

even one which has been refurbished, should not catch fire and should not

:20:49.:20:51.

spread that quickly, that is what experts tell us. Yesterday one of

:20:52.:20:55.

the original architect spoke with us. In 1974, he worked on it in the

:20:56.:21:02.

late 1960s, even he described it as incomprehensible that it burned so

:21:03.:21:06.

quickly, we built a concrete building and concrete simply does

:21:07.:21:09.

not burn like that. What went wrong? It is not yet confirmed, a lot of

:21:10.:21:14.

talk about the cladding that went on the outside of the building. Fixed

:21:15.:21:19.

on about one year ago. You and the viewers at home will have seen this,

:21:20.:21:24.

plastic looking substance, goes on the outside of older style blocks to

:21:25.:21:29.

make it look pretty, and also for energy reasons, to make it more

:21:30.:21:34.

efficient. So, potentially, that could have been partially

:21:35.:21:37.

responsible. That is what some people say, the residents we were

:21:38.:21:41.

speaking with, on this programme, brought it up again and again. We

:21:42.:21:45.

have learned the panels fixed onto the outside were made of something

:21:46.:21:51.

called ACM, that is aluminium composite material, that material

:21:52.:21:53.

has been blamed for nearly a dozen high-rise flyers globally over the

:21:54.:22:02.

last decade. France, Dubai, a couple of fires famously there. -- a dozen

:22:03.:22:06.

high-rise fires. Regulations around those panels are quite sketchy, you

:22:07.:22:10.

can have a situation where there is fire retardant material on the

:22:11.:22:14.

outside that protects from firebug on the inside, the bag, it is not

:22:15.:22:25.

fire leading to a situation where the inside burns through but the

:22:26.:22:29.

outside is not, that creates a chimney effect, that is what it

:22:30.:22:33.

looked like yesterday on television and social media. That is just a

:22:34.:22:38.

theory. Needs a full investigation. The worst tower block fire like this

:22:39.:22:42.

was in a place called lacquer Mulhouse, south London, 2009, last

:22:43.:22:49.

night we spoke with Sam Webb, the expert in the inquest into those six

:22:50.:22:53.

deaths, and again, he said, this is horribly familiar, pointed to the

:22:54.:22:58.

cladding, looking at the television footage and said, the could this be

:22:59.:23:03.

to blame, he said this was entirely preventable. -- Lakanal House. The

:23:04.:23:11.

main contract to install this was Rydon and they say they have met the

:23:12.:23:16.

regulations, the subcontractor, Harley Facades, not aware of any

:23:17.:23:20.

link between the cladding and the fire at this time. What about safety

:23:21.:23:25.

procedures? Brought up yesterday, a couple of real concerns about the

:23:26.:23:29.

alarm system fitted. A new alarm system was fitted last year under

:23:30.:23:35.

the refit, but people we have spoken with say they did not hear an alarm,

:23:36.:23:39.

it did not get them out of bed, they were woken up by smoke alarms in

:23:40.:23:44.

neighbouring flats. The evacuation procedure, people being told through

:23:45.:23:47.

notices in the building that if the fire is not directly inside your

:23:48.:23:53.

flat, stay inside. That is common advice for high-rise blocks across

:23:54.:23:56.

the UK at the moment. That may be looked into. A sprinkler system as

:23:57.:24:02.

well, after the earlier fire in lacquer Mulhouse, it was said that

:24:03.:24:06.

perhaps that should be considered to install them in new house -- old

:24:07.:24:15.

houses. If it had been newer, it would have a sprinkler system. --

:24:16.:24:21.

lacquer null house. -- Lakanal House.

:24:22.:24:26.

Wojciech should have been in place to make sure that a fire like this

:24:27.:24:33.

did not happen? One of the things are and I certainly concur with

:24:34.:24:40.

this, once they had done the major checks, they should carried out fire

:24:41.:24:48.

risk assessment review. -- once they had done the major works. -- what

:24:49.:24:52.

checks. Under approved document be,

:24:53.:24:59.

regulation 38, all of the necessary information about what had been used

:25:00.:25:05.

on the building should have been carried out, test report, whether

:25:06.:25:08.

that was the correct application for the building, those questions need

:25:09.:25:14.

to be answered. For a moment, assume all of that happened as it should,

:25:15.:25:18.

are you then saying that the fire would not have happened or not? If

:25:19.:25:24.

the cladding and what was behind the cladding had been properly fire

:25:25.:25:29.

tested, and the surface spread of flames was appropriate, the fire

:25:30.:25:37.

would not have spread up there. But Niall is more of an expert. The

:25:38.:25:42.

exterior of the cladding has to be noncombustible, not what is behind

:25:43.:25:46.

it. Under a note, and approved document, approved document be, a

:25:47.:25:51.

statutory guidance to the building regulation, there is a requirement

:25:52.:25:55.

for non-combustible cladding for buildings above 18 metres. --

:25:56.:26:04.

approved document B. Or, 8414... Sorry, stop doing these numbers at

:26:05.:26:08.

me... I'm going down on the hierarchy, the default condition is

:26:09.:26:13.

noncombustible, the next is a very strong and worthy fire, the next is

:26:14.:26:19.

and assessment by a test laboratory, and the next... We do not know which

:26:20.:26:25.

of these procedures was used on this blog. It may have been fully fire

:26:26.:26:32.

tested. I have my doubts. -- block. We have no idea. It is difficult to

:26:33.:26:36.

say. Sorry to give you all of those numbers. No, that is fine. There are

:26:37.:26:42.

questions to be asked on this cladding, I saw video from a

:26:43.:26:46.

passer-by which showed very rapid narrow initial fire spread, 30

:26:47.:26:50.

seconds or so to get to the top of the building, unbelievable, I have

:26:51.:26:55.

never seen anything like it. What we have to remember is that each of the

:26:56.:26:58.

flats is a bit like a shoe box, think about a shoe box, it should

:26:59.:27:02.

have a half-hour protection around it at every angle, although shoe

:27:03.:27:08.

boxes stacked on each other, if the fire is retained within that shoe

:27:09.:27:11.

box for half an hour, that is more than enough time for fire brigade to

:27:12.:27:14.

come to deal with the fire in the individual flat, which is where that

:27:15.:27:18.

stayed put policy comes from. But it needs to be quantified, the state

:27:19.:27:26.

put -- clearly everybody in this lot was affected by fire or smoke and so

:27:27.:27:29.

they should have been evacuated the the stay put is clear about that.

:27:30.:27:38.

Why was there that policy, that stay put policy, it is so that

:27:39.:27:42.

firefighters can get up the stairs and not be impeded by people coming

:27:43.:27:46.

down the stairs, is that correct? Would you want to live in a

:27:47.:27:49.

high-rise block of flats where every time somebody burned their toes,

:27:50.:27:54.

everybody has to evacuate, how many times a day would you be evacuating.

:27:55.:27:58.

Where you have a property with a single step place -- single

:27:59.:28:03.

staircase, they would be running up with all their equipment, a dry

:28:04.:28:07.

riser in a high-rise block, they would set up the fire cordon one

:28:08.:28:14.

level the fire, connected to the dry riser and run up. Once they run a

:28:15.:28:18.

hose people coming down, once they put water in the hose, the hose will

:28:19.:28:22.

go talk, any be on the stairs will be taken out. Do not want loads of

:28:23.:28:28.

people coming out of the building in such a circumstance because people

:28:29.:28:31.

will get injured. Thank you very much for coming down.

:28:32.:28:34.

We are at the Westway sports Centre this Thursday morning, more than 24

:28:35.:28:40.

hours after the fire broke out at Grenfell Tower. It is the structure

:28:41.:28:46.

that looms over this community, it dominates everything. This is the

:28:47.:28:52.

day when people are perhaps absorbing properly the fact they may

:28:53.:28:59.

have lost loved ones. There are desperate people still searching for

:29:00.:29:04.

missing relatives. There is a condolence wall, if I can put it

:29:05.:29:08.

like that, I have tweeted a photograph of that, evil writing

:29:09.:29:12.

messages to those who have lost lives. The messages include love and

:29:13.:29:19.

prayers. There is also some anger on that wall. Justice for ground fell

:29:20.:29:27.

-- justice for Grenfell, why did this happen to happen, whoever is

:29:28.:29:32.

responsible, those selfish people will pay. Those are some of the

:29:33.:29:36.

sentiments. Underneath, people laying flowers as a mark of respect.

:29:37.:29:43.

We are going to walk across this basketball pitch past all these

:29:44.:29:49.

donations, the volunteers have said they have enough now. They perhaps

:29:50.:29:54.

do not have enough volunteers to sort through all the many hundreds

:29:55.:29:59.

of bags, I mean, this is stuff that has not been sorted through yet,

:30:00.:30:04.

look at these bin bags full of donations - clothes, jumpers,

:30:05.:30:07.

sportswear, socks, underwear, toys. Over here, thank you, Mo, bedding,

:30:08.:30:17.

duvets, mattresses, and so it goes on. Now, we are going to walk

:30:18.:30:22.

through and out, because outside here, this is a queue of people who

:30:23.:30:27.

are signing into volunteer. There with me as we walk through.

:30:28.:30:38.

Hopefully, I will be able to introduce you to some of the

:30:39.:30:46.

volunteers. Bear with me, excuse me, hello. Good morning. Hello, what is

:30:47.:30:53.

your name? Abraham, how are you? Nice to see you, who is this? Hi,

:30:54.:31:01.

Lucy, what is your role? I came down yesterday morning, and I was based

:31:02.:31:04.

here until midnight last night, and I got up this morning and wanted to

:31:05.:31:08.

get involved and do whatever I could to help. So you are a volunteer, do

:31:09.:31:14.

you live locally? My house is just there, so sitting at home and

:31:15.:31:21.

watching the news, just felt completely wrong, it down, do

:31:22.:31:25.

whatever I could, seems the right thing. Abraham, tell cum about how

:31:26.:31:31.

you have been helping. I started at six o'clock yesterday morning, just

:31:32.:31:38.

to volunteer, the sports centre opened their doors for us, amazing.

:31:39.:31:42.

Basically, people coming out of their houses with big bags, not

:31:43.:31:49.

knowing what to do. It is lovely they opened their doors, and I took

:31:50.:31:54.

control, and I said, I am the co-ordinated here, hundreds of

:31:55.:31:58.

lovely volunteers spend hours, hours, more than 15 hours, sorting

:31:59.:32:05.

this all out. What really struck me, if you walk past all the open spaces

:32:06.:32:12.

here, full of people bringing stuff. And this is being coordinated, as

:32:13.:32:16.

far as I can see, not by anybody in authority, not by the council - it

:32:17.:32:21.

is people like yourselves. Absolutely, hands up to the

:32:22.:32:25.

community, dedicated so much of their time, donations from different

:32:26.:32:32.

charities, 100% effort. I guess it is confusing for a lot of

:32:33.:32:35.

authorities, because they didn't know where to go, what was the main

:32:36.:32:41.

centre? We have got so many viewers getting in touch, from all over the

:32:42.:32:46.

country, saying, how can we help? What would you suggest? At the

:32:47.:32:53.

moment, we are so full of generous, you know, donations. I think what we

:32:54.:32:57.

need at the moment is if people can find locations and help sort out

:32:58.:33:02.

things, this is one of our biggest collection points, and we need

:33:03.:33:08.

volunteers to help sort it out. Hopefully, the council can arrange.

:33:09.:33:14.

People further afield, they can donate to all sorts of places

:33:15.:33:16.

online, official fundraising campaigns for those have lost

:33:17.:33:21.

everything. There are people who have managed to escape that horror

:33:22.:33:25.

and have everything that they have worked for, gone. I think we don't

:33:26.:33:30.

know, we don't know how much stuff there is, we don't know where it is

:33:31.:33:36.

going to go. The people arriving now, people are texting, there are

:33:37.:33:41.

continually questions, what can we do? I think we are going to find out

:33:42.:33:47.

today, as the days and weeks unfold. It is not just yesterday, not just

:33:48.:33:51.

today, there will be more to do over the coming weeks, continue fighting

:33:52.:33:55.

for this. What to think about what has happened in your community?

:33:56.:34:02.

Long-term or just in the last 24 hours? You tell me. What was

:34:03.:34:08.

amazing, yesterday, the camaraderie and spirit that crossed languages,

:34:09.:34:16.

cultures. People were working from their hearts, it is something that

:34:17.:34:24.

is moving and exhilarating, in the current state of what is going on,

:34:25.:34:32.

it is heart-warming. OK. If I may, Lucy, Abraham, bear with me, I am

:34:33.:34:37.

just getting this statement from the Queen. The Queen has said her

:34:38.:34:40.

thoughts and prayers are with those families who have lost loved ones in

:34:41.:34:44.

the Grenfell Tower fire and the many people who are still critically ill

:34:45.:34:53.

in hospital. Wow. It is lovely. The families that are in here are being

:34:54.:34:59.

taken care of, a full team of supporters, they have everything

:35:00.:35:03.

they need. The best we can do is just do what we are doing. We will

:35:04.:35:10.

also reporting earlier that the Prime Minister, Theresa May, is due

:35:11.:35:16.

here today. We will see what happens. I'm not sure how the public

:35:17.:35:21.

will react, because there is a lot of anger, a lot of the volunteers

:35:22.:35:27.

are local guys. I'm not really sure. What do you mean? It was kind of

:35:28.:35:35.

heated, people were really frustrated with the situation.

:35:36.:35:39.

Because it happened? The reasons why it happened, and children, you know,

:35:40.:35:48.

we had young children wanting to volunteer, jumping up and down,

:35:49.:35:52.

laughing and smiling, but they have friends who they have lost because

:35:53.:35:57.

they went to the school across the road, they have lost friends. So

:35:58.:36:04.

many people have lost friends and family, you know, we will do as much

:36:05.:36:11.

as we can. We are very organised here, great team, great volunteers,

:36:12.:36:16.

loads of volunteers with a structure of what were going to do for the

:36:17.:36:19.

day. But if you want to volunteer, go to different areas, leisure

:36:20.:36:25.

centres et cetera, go and help yourself. Thank you very much,

:36:26.:36:31.

Abraham, Lucy, thank you very much, thank you. This statement from the

:36:32.:36:35.

Queen, a little longer, I will read it to you. My thoughts and prayers

:36:36.:36:40.

are with those families who have lost loved ones in the Grenfell

:36:41.:36:45.

Tower fire, and the many people who are still critically ill in

:36:46.:36:48.

hospital. Prince Philip and I would like to pay tribute to the bravery

:36:49.:36:52.

of firefighters and other emergency service officers who put their lives

:36:53.:36:57.

at risk to save others. It is also heartening to see the incredible

:36:58.:36:59.

generosity of community volunteers rallying to help those affected by

:37:00.:37:06.

this terrible event. We have also got this breaking news to bring you

:37:07.:37:10.

- Labour are calling for an inquiry into fire safety in tower blocks to

:37:11.:37:16.

be completed by the summer. Let's talk to assistant political editor

:37:17.:37:21.

Norman Smith, Phil us in. There is mounting frustration at Westminster

:37:22.:37:24.

that because Parliament is not sitting, there is no opportunity for

:37:25.:37:29.

MPs to quiz ministers about fire safety, so Labour have jumped the

:37:30.:37:33.

gun and said they want an inquiry to be completed by the summer, and in

:37:34.:37:38.

the interim they want the recommendations of a previous

:37:39.:37:43.

report, following the Lakanal House tower block tragedy in south London,

:37:44.:37:48.

to be implemented immediately. Now, that would mean, for example, the

:37:49.:37:52.

installation of sprinklers in at risk tower blocks. It would mean a

:37:53.:37:59.

review of building regulations to include the safety of cladding,

:38:00.:38:03.

which of course is at the centre of much of the concern about what has

:38:04.:38:07.

happened at Grenfell Tower. It would also include updated advice to

:38:08.:38:12.

residents about whether they should stay or whether they should get out

:38:13.:38:16.

- that too has been central to Grenfell Tower. And there would also

:38:17.:38:21.

be an instruction that there had to be a sort of box at the bottom of

:38:22.:38:27.

the tower block which would give firefighters all the information

:38:28.:38:32.

they needed about routes, access, lifts, stairwells and all that sort

:38:33.:38:35.

of thing. So they are in effect saying we cannot afford to hang

:38:36.:38:40.

around, we have to implement the 2013 recommendations which by and

:38:41.:38:44.

large have either been rejected or shelved. OK. And Theresa May and

:38:45.:38:52.

Jeremy Corbyn are going to come here to the scene of the tragedy today,

:38:53.:38:57.

is that correct? That is right, the Prime Minister will be there ahead

:38:58.:39:05.

of Jeremy Corbyn, both obviously want to show their condolences,

:39:06.:39:07.

there is sadness, there horror at what happened. But there is, I have

:39:08.:39:13.

to say, some pressure on the Government now to come forward with

:39:14.:39:18.

more than simply expressions of condolences. There were demands

:39:19.:39:22.

yesterday for a statement in Westminster, not in the Commons

:39:23.:39:25.

because it is not sitting - the statement in one of the committee

:39:26.:39:30.

rooms where a minister, as well as the emergency services, as well as

:39:31.:39:34.

the local council, could be quizzed by MPs. Having spoken to the

:39:35.:39:38.

authorities at Westminster, that does not seem to be about to happen.

:39:39.:39:43.

I think there is a degree of anger that it is just not acceptable,

:39:44.:39:47.

given the scale and nature of this tragedy, that there is no immediate

:39:48.:39:52.

mechanism whereby MPs can, as it were, hold the Government to

:39:53.:39:55.

account. Now, I'm sure ministers will they have set up the civil

:39:56.:40:00.

contingencies Secretariat to pull together the different information,

:40:01.:40:03.

and we had an assurance last night that any lessons to be learned would

:40:04.:40:07.

be, but I have spoken to MPs saying that is not good enough, what is

:40:08.:40:11.

needed is a full-blown public inquiry, not merely to establish

:40:12.:40:17.

what has gone wrong, but to reassure the public and people living in the

:40:18.:40:19.

thousands of tower blocks elsewhere in Britain. Yeah. I am asking people

:40:20.:40:27.

who live in high-rise blocks of flats this morning, if they feel

:40:28.:40:35.

confident that he was -- that whoever is looking after them, do

:40:36.:40:41.

they feel safe? Let me ask you about criticism of Gavin Barwell, a former

:40:42.:40:47.

Conservative MP, he lost his seat in the general election, then he was

:40:48.:40:50.

made Theresa May's chief of staff, why such criticism? Criticism

:40:51.:40:56.

because he was the former housing minister, and back in October last

:40:57.:41:03.

year, he promised to produce a review of the building regulations,

:41:04.:41:06.

and the fact is that just has not emerged, and that, I have to say,

:41:07.:41:12.

follows on from the previous housing minister, Brandon Lewis, who

:41:13.:41:14.

similarly was challenged to implement the lack of -- the Lakmal

:41:15.:41:21.

house recommendations, and that also seems to have disappeared into the

:41:22.:41:25.

long grass. At the moment, politicians are holding back because

:41:26.:41:28.

it is just not appropriate in the aftermath of such a tragedy to be

:41:29.:41:34.

making those very direct political accusations. But there is no doubt

:41:35.:41:41.

that there are a whole load of very difficult questions waiting to be

:41:42.:41:48.

answered by Gavin Barwell once this tragedy is over.

:41:49.:41:53.

Agger very much, Norman Smith, apologies if you frantically called

:41:54.:42:03.

me trying to work out who our next guests would be. I am here as an

:42:04.:42:09.

individual Assembly Member, but that is one of my jobs. You are a local

:42:10.:42:18.

councillor, is that correct? Yes. So today, what questions would you like

:42:19.:42:25.

answered? Well, something the leader of the council said yesterday, the

:42:26.:42:28.

leader of the Council, Kensington and Chelsea, he said that when the

:42:29.:42:33.

refurbishments of the tower was finished, there would have been a

:42:34.:42:37.

full inspection, which suggested to me that he has not seen any full

:42:38.:42:42.

inspection, and that raises the question as to whether there was a

:42:43.:42:46.

full inspection. Would-be leader of the council get to see that report?

:42:47.:42:53.

-- I think if he were going to be interviewed after a horrendous fire

:42:54.:42:56.

like this, I would expect him to be fully briefed, yes. Had he seen an

:42:57.:43:02.

inspection, he would have seen that the only fire escape, the single

:43:03.:43:06.

stairwell, was not part of the refurbishment. The lights were on

:43:07.:43:10.

but not working properly, clearly not working properly yesterday. We

:43:11.:43:14.

asked for that to being clued up, and they basically said we cannot do

:43:15.:43:20.

that is there isn't enough money, the country, not enough money to

:43:21.:43:25.

refurbish the fire escape. I think that is absolutely outrageous. What

:43:26.:43:29.

would that have achieved? It would have achieved working lights,

:43:30.:43:32.

possibly a fire alarm, and easier way for people to get down. If you

:43:33.:43:37.

have not seen the staircase, it is really manky and nasty. It is not

:43:38.:43:45.

central, it is at one side of the building, and it is the only fire

:43:46.:43:52.

escape. Right, OK. Sian Berry, what about yourself? Well, following

:43:53.:43:59.

previous incidents like this, the Lakanal House buyer, we came to the

:44:00.:44:03.

same conclusions as the coroner, and one of the recommendations was that

:44:04.:44:06.

fire risk assessments need to be published, need to be available

:44:07.:44:10.

online, not just for councils that need to see them, but a residence in

:44:11.:44:14.

the blocks to want to inspect the safety of their blocks, transparency

:44:15.:44:19.

is a real is you. Obviously, we have talked about the recommendations to

:44:20.:44:24.

change the fire regulations, and the difficulties that there are with you

:44:25.:44:27.

is responsible levels. The problem we have got is that there is a

:44:28.:44:32.

conflict of interest. The owners of buildings are the people responsible

:44:33.:44:35.

for carrying out fire risk assessments. There is no statutory

:44:36.:44:39.

process of signing things off, like they used to be. It is not the same

:44:40.:44:46.

as it used to be. I understand that, that is a very fair point. Are you

:44:47.:44:51.

suggesting that the landlord or management organisation in charge of

:44:52.:44:55.

a block, they don't do the fire assessment themselves, they would

:44:56.:45:00.

call in an expert. They are responsible for calling in an

:45:01.:45:03.

expert, and when the Fire Brigades did an assessment, they found 20%

:45:04.:45:08.

were not adequate, there are lots of questions about the people doing

:45:09.:45:12.

them. It is a lesser regime than it used to be, and that does seem to be

:45:13.:45:17.

an issue, especially when it comes to transparency and accountability

:45:18.:45:20.

to the residents. One of the real things we can see out of this is

:45:21.:45:23.

that the residents themselves were organised, looking at things in

:45:24.:45:27.

detail, they were making recommendations, and yet they seem

:45:28.:45:30.

to have been treated more or less like troublemakers, and that is

:45:31.:45:34.

something we are seeing right across London - residents are not treated

:45:35.:45:37.

with respect, and they are acting in the interests of their neighbours,

:45:38.:45:41.

they should be more involved in the management of their blocks, they

:45:42.:45:44.

should be treated better. I was going to say, the residents raised

:45:45.:45:49.

questions about the fire safety ever since the power surges in 2016. They

:45:50.:45:55.

asked them to pay for their own independent expert, looking at fire

:45:56.:45:59.

regulations and the situation there and they were told it was not

:46:00.:46:05.

necessary, that the TMO had commissioned their own expert, don't

:46:06.:46:08.

worry your pretty little heads about it, go away. What have the council

:46:09.:46:14.

been able to do in terms of urgency accommodation for those who were

:46:15.:46:18.

evacuated, those who escaped. Those evacuated as well from surrounding

:46:19.:46:22.

flats and houses. Some of those who have been evacuated went back to

:46:23.:46:26.

their homes, I think they went willingly, but as far as the

:46:27.:46:30.

Grenfell Tower residents are concerned, I had an e-mail this

:46:31.:46:32.

morning from a family that came from the tower, in a hotel in Earls

:46:33.:46:37.

Court, given no indication as whether they will stay for a second

:46:38.:46:43.

night or what their future will be. Everybody in temporary accommodation

:46:44.:46:47.

should be given the fullest information as to what... Is it

:46:48.:46:49.

possible there is not the fullest information yet? But surely they can

:46:50.:46:53.

be told if they can stay a second night because they have nowhere else

:46:54.:46:57.

to go, no belongings, nothing. Why are they in the dark like that, it

:46:58.:47:01.

adds to the horrendous experience they have been through. The Prime

:47:02.:47:06.

Minister Theresa May has arrived, we are hearing, in the vicinity of

:47:07.:47:10.

Grenfell Tower. Really. Yes. Well, she will not get a very good

:47:11.:47:14.

reception from the residents, residents are getting very angry.

:47:15.:47:18.

Yesterday they were traumatised and distraught, today they are

:47:19.:47:21.

exceedingly angry. Is that what you are finding? Yes, the residents were

:47:22.:47:25.

angry before this happened, they were warning of this, the anger out

:47:26.:47:29.

there, generally, across London, across the country, from people who

:47:30.:47:34.

have had similar experiences with refurbishments who still have

:47:35.:47:37.

unanswered questions, is rather huge. Councils around London, that

:47:38.:47:44.

run housing in London, they need to be getting the fullest possible

:47:45.:47:47.

information out of people about who has cladding that might be at risk

:47:48.:47:50.

and get them to do assessments of what the problems might be as soon

:47:51.:47:54.

as possible. People need reassurance, they feel let down.

:47:55.:47:58.

Here is a private visit from the Prime Minister. Really? She should

:47:59.:48:02.

probably be protected from the residents as she was protected from

:48:03.:48:06.

the electorate during the general election campaign. If she is to meet

:48:07.:48:11.

residents, what will they say to her? They would be extremely

:48:12.:48:20.

expletive deleted, but without the expletives deleted! They will tell

:48:21.:48:22.

her about what has been going on for five years, how their concerns have

:48:23.:48:27.

been sidelined, the towel refurbishment was done to them, not

:48:28.:48:31.

with them, and there were so many problems that were completely

:48:32.:48:34.

ignored throughout the process. -- the tower refurbishment. The

:48:35.:48:43.

board... And arm's-length management organisation, TMO, used to manage

:48:44.:48:50.

all the states in the Royal Borough. I raised all of these problems at

:48:51.:48:54.

the board, basically, they said, you are speaking only on behalf of those

:48:55.:48:58.

rabble-rousers, at Grenfell Tower, we can ignore you. How do you

:48:59.:49:07.

respond? We have a slightly new board now, slightly more supportive

:49:08.:49:11.

people, when I raise issues of concern to communities, they back me

:49:12.:49:16.

up, but that board was not in place then. Thank you both, and give very

:49:17.:49:22.

much. And thank you, Green Party chair of the London assembly housing

:49:23.:49:26.

committee. Thank you for your messages from around the country,

:49:27.:49:32.

this is from Twitter, your guest earlier hit the nail on the head,

:49:33.:49:38.

this was a local resident. How can a fridge exploding set fire to a whole

:49:39.:49:43.

block of flats? Craig on Twitter has said, what a fantastic response by

:49:44.:49:46.

the people of London, after the fire. What other local authorities

:49:47.:49:52.

doing? We are not hearing from them, these people need help. And this

:49:53.:49:57.

from somebody who does not leave their name, regular people with

:49:58.:49:59.

heartbreaking details and honest opinion, people rarely heard, honest

:50:00.:50:04.

and fair reporting from you this morning. I'm really interested to

:50:05.:50:08.

hear from you, if you live in a block of flats, whether you feel

:50:09.:50:14.

confident, how confident you feel about whether the association, the

:50:15.:50:17.

agency, the management organisation, the tenant organisation, which runs

:50:18.:50:22.

your block of flats, how confident you feel in them when it comes to

:50:23.:50:30.

keeping you safe? Good morning, we will bring you the latest news and

:50:31.:50:35.

sport in just a moment. It is much busier now, when we arrived first

:50:36.:50:41.

thing this morning, it was so quiet, I think perhaps people did not

:50:42.:50:45.

realise that some of the roads had reopened, the Westway, the main

:50:46.:50:47.

road, one of the main routes into the capital, is open. Latimer Road

:50:48.:50:52.

tube station is open, Ladbroke Grove is open, which is Notting Hill,

:50:53.:50:57.

which is where the Carnival is, which many of you will have been to.

:50:58.:51:03.

And now, you can still see people arriving to volunteer, have a look

:51:04.:51:10.

at these people, just signing in, volunteers, people who live locally

:51:11.:51:13.

and further afield. The message has got through, I think, no more

:51:14.:51:18.

donations are needed, no more donations needed. But, what they do

:51:19.:51:25.

need our helpers, and these are some helpers signing in. Good morning.

:51:26.:51:38.

Hello. Are you volunteering? The whole community is chipping in. They

:51:39.:51:42.

are taking our telephone numbers, and when it is needed we will come

:51:43.:51:47.

and help. It is good to know that they do not need help at the moment

:51:48.:51:51.

because so many people are already helping out. You will come back

:51:52.:51:56.

later if they need you? Yes, we live locally. We will try to help. Thank

:51:57.:52:05.

you. Thank you very much. So, the extraordinary community effort,

:52:06.:52:08.

another example of it there, to help the victims of the blaze. Brought

:52:09.:52:12.

together, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, in a perfect

:52:13.:52:17.

example of community spirit. Also, people like Adele turned up to a

:52:18.:52:24.

vigil, who was apparently hugging and comforting survivors. Churches

:52:25.:52:28.

and community centres have opened their doors from first light to

:52:29.:52:31.

accommodate those rescued from the blazing building and those who had

:52:32.:52:34.

been evacuated from surrounding homes. Let's talk now to some of

:52:35.:52:38.

those people who dedicated their time and effort, time and energy, I

:52:39.:52:45.

should say, to the support effort. Hello, Miranda, hello. How are you?

:52:46.:52:52.

Who else have we got here. Lukman. Hello. And Younes. I'm Victoria,

:52:53.:53:02.

thank you for speaking with us. Miranda, you headed to a church, you

:53:03.:53:06.

are not religious but you headed to a church to help. We are at the

:53:07.:53:10.

Notting Hill gate Methodist Church, there was a door open, the minister

:53:11.:53:15.

was there, one lady, one bag, we decided to turn it into a centre. We

:53:16.:53:20.

have had donations from the children, residents have come in

:53:21.:53:23.

telling us appalling stories about how they are still waiting for the

:53:24.:53:27.

families. But we did have 19-year-old girl who brought us in a

:53:28.:53:35.

pair of trainers, they will auction them, Nike trainers, thank you! What

:53:36.:53:39.

the people say when they bring their donations. They say... Well, we do

:53:40.:53:47.

not have time to chat with them, so we cannot chat with them, we have

:53:48.:53:50.

had people go to the rugby club, but the situation, everybody is

:53:51.:53:54.

horrified by this needless, pointless crime. You say crime? Yes,

:53:55.:54:02.

I use that word with passion. You use it advisory? This is a crime,

:54:03.:54:10.

needless, pointless, they have been asking for fire certificate safety

:54:11.:54:15.

certificate since 2014 and they never got one. I think it is

:54:16.:54:21.

shocking... We are not doing this... We should not have to be doing this!

:54:22.:54:26.

Had they taken care of everybody in the borough, not just the rich

:54:27.:54:31.

people...! This would not have happened. They would not have to

:54:32.:54:35.

suffer as they have. I was talking to one lady just now, cuddling her,

:54:36.:54:40.

she was crying, she has lost some family and some family are

:54:41.:54:44.

missing... Because that is what it is about, about the residence. --

:54:45.:54:54.

residents. Miranda is very emotional, totally understandable,

:54:55.:54:59.

tell us how you have been helping. Started off with somebody phoning me

:55:00.:55:03.

and telling me that they have some clothes to donate, a friend of mine.

:55:04.:55:11.

I live local, near the incident, I can get access to places more easily

:55:12.:55:14.

than him because all the roads were blocked off. Then I decided to call

:55:15.:55:23.

my friend, who had a vehicle, and basically, we formed some groups, on

:55:24.:55:27.

Whats App, and on Twitter, as well. We did not expect it to be as good

:55:28.:55:36.

as what it did turn out to be. Basically, people from Birmingham,

:55:37.:55:41.

Luton, Brentford, Wembley, all over, Muslims, non-Muslims, all of them

:55:42.:55:45.

phoning me. My phone did not stop ringing and ringing and ringing.

:55:46.:55:51.

With donations. Clothing. To the point, I used my house as a drop-off

:55:52.:55:55.

point as well because I live local as well. A lot of people with bands

:55:56.:56:01.

were helping me, to distribute all the things everywhere. -- vans and

:56:02.:56:08.

we managed to raise between five and ?8,000 as well. In one day. We did

:56:09.:56:12.

as well. -- we did as well. Separately?! We

:56:13.:56:23.

did as well, somebody came from North London to give us a lot of

:56:24.:56:26.

money, I will not say how much, but somebody gave us a lot of cash

:56:27.:56:35.

money. -- vans. And we managed to raise between ?5,000 and ?8,000.

:56:36.:56:41.

Cash donations, but no more goods. Tell us what you have been doing. He

:56:42.:56:47.

phoned me in the early hours of the morning, he said, I need to use your

:56:48.:56:52.

car, to collect, we have clothes in Wembley. To bring it back to the

:56:53.:56:57.

people that need it. In Grenfell Tower. I came in my car, collecting

:56:58.:57:05.

trainers, clothes, things like that, distributing it to the people that

:57:06.:57:14.

need it. I am part of a Leytonstone education trust, we are a mosque and

:57:15.:57:18.

educational centre, community centre, one of the first mosques out

:57:19.:57:22.

of many to respond yesterday. Within a few hours, the whole back wall was

:57:23.:57:28.

packed with food items and essentials. This is not just a North

:57:29.:57:33.

Kensington effort, this is London, data London, further afield do come

:57:34.:57:41.

together, we will have two invade each other's body space. I am a

:57:42.:57:48.

part-time imam at the mosque, and in the month of Ramadan, as Muslims, as

:57:49.:57:53.

non-Muslims, as a community, coming together and giving something back.

:57:54.:57:57.

We are receiving donations not just from Leytonstone and Stratford but

:57:58.:58:01.

also from places like Luton, places like Ilford as well, people from all

:58:02.:58:06.

over London and outside of London coming in and participating, it is a

:58:07.:58:10.

community effort. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thanks for

:58:11.:58:15.

talking to us, we appreciate it. Coming up to 10am, we will bring you

:58:16.:58:20.

the latest news and sport in just a moment. Before that, the weather

:58:21.:58:21.

forecast. Things turning a little bit fresher

:58:22.:58:30.

today, warm, muggy night, pretty uncomfortable for sleeping for many

:58:31.:58:33.

of us. Here is the scene taken early on by one of the weather Watchers in

:58:34.:58:39.

North Wales. More sunshine later on, scattered showers, and the fresher

:58:40.:58:44.

feel to the weather, particularly as we had through the afternoon. Cold

:58:45.:58:48.

front moving west to east across the country, a band of cloud, really,

:58:49.:58:53.

with light showers, but any showers fading away as it pushes towards the

:58:54.:58:58.

south-east. Then we are left with some sunshine but also scattered

:58:59.:59:01.

showers, particularly for Scotland and Northern Ireland as well.

:59:02.:59:06.

Further south, plenty of sunshine, temperatures in the West 17 or 18

:59:07.:59:10.

degrees, little bit cooler than recent days, warmer than that

:59:11.:59:14.

further east, where you keep the warm air for longer. One or two

:59:15.:59:19.

shower was propping up through northern England but Northern

:59:20.:59:21.

Ireland and Scotland will have the bulk of the showers. Some of them

:59:22.:59:24.

quite heavy, could be the odd rumble of thunder, quite blustery with

:59:25.:59:28.

gusty winds in and around the showers. Moving through into the

:59:29.:59:32.

evening, fine end to the day for many of us, showers in the north

:59:33.:59:35.

tending to ease away as we had through the overnight period, mostly

:59:36.:59:40.

dry through the early hours, not quite as hot and muggy as it was

:59:41.:59:45.

last night. Temperatures around 12, 13 degrees, cooler than they were

:59:46.:59:48.

first thing this morning. Through the day tomorrow, a lot of dry

:59:49.:59:51.

weather once again with sunshine particularly in the south and the

:59:52.:59:55.

East, more clouds towards the north-west with rain across Northern

:59:56.:59:59.

Ireland and into Scotland. Temperature wise, we could see 23,

:00:00.:00:07.

24 degrees. Fresher than that further north. As high pressure

:00:08.:00:09.

builds through the South as we had through Friday night, that will be

:00:10.:00:13.

the driving force of the weather, low pressure system bringing the

:00:14.:00:18.

front, fairly cloudy, breezy and damp for the north-west of Scotland,

:00:19.:00:21.

but elsewhere, it is looking dry once again. Light wind and sunshine,

:00:22.:00:27.

temperature likely to reach around 28 degrees during the course of

:00:28.:00:32.

Saturday. Into Sunday, that heat rising even more, we could see 30

:00:33.:00:37.

degrees towards the south-east. Cooler towards the north-west, some

:00:38.:00:40.

rain across the North West of Scotland. Elsewhere, looking dry.

:00:41.:00:45.

Plenty more summery weather on the cards, through much of the next few

:00:46.:00:50.

days, into the weekend, you can find a full tender 10-day forecast at the

:00:51.:00:56.

website. -- you can find a full ten day forecast.

:00:57.:01:00.

Hello, it's Thursday, it's ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:01:01.:01:04.

Prime Minister Theresa May is meeting residents and firefighters

:01:05.:01:08.

at the Grenfell Tower block now, about 150 metres or so away from

:01:09.:01:15.

where we are broadcasting to you from in North Kensington. But what

:01:16.:01:19.

kind of reception issues getting? They will be exceedingly expletive

:01:20.:01:25.

deleted, but without the deletions, they will be telling her what has

:01:26.:01:31.

been going on for the last five years, how their concerns have been

:01:32.:01:34.

ignored, they have at the tower Ruth Jebet done to them, not with them,

:01:35.:01:39.

and there were so many problems which were completely ignored. --

:01:40.:01:40.

tower refurbishment. Fire still blazes in some

:01:41.:01:41.

parts in the charred The death toll remains at 12

:01:42.:01:44.

but that is expected to rise as dozens of people

:01:45.:01:49.

are still unaccounted for. I saw around about six children all

:01:50.:02:14.

crying for help, and within, I would say by 1:30, that all top of the

:02:15.:02:22.

building halfway down, smoke just got into the flats, everything went

:02:23.:02:26.

black. And you never saw anybody again.

:02:27.:02:27.

This is the scene at Grenfell Tower now, where firefighters

:02:28.:02:33.

are still trying to bring the fire under control.

:02:34.:02:38.

Firefighters have been explaining the difficult circumstances

:02:39.:02:39.

It is very difficult for people to comprehend, when they look at a

:02:40.:02:51.

building, why we cannot just go in and see it, but due to the severity

:02:52.:02:55.

of the fire and what happens in those circumstances, everything

:02:56.:02:58.

inside all of those rooms, basically, ends up on the floor in

:02:59.:03:00.

large amounts of volumes of stuff. Many questions continue to be asked

:03:01.:03:05.

about what caused the blaze and what can be done to ensure

:03:06.:03:07.

it never happens again. One problem that people we have

:03:08.:03:21.

spoken to say the regulations around the panels are quite sketchy. You

:03:22.:03:25.

can have a situation where there is fire retardant material on the

:03:26.:03:30.

outside, but on the inside, on the back, it is not fire resistant, and

:03:31.:03:34.

that can lead to a situation where the inside burns through, and people

:03:35.:03:38.

say that can lead to a chimney effect.

:03:39.:03:48.

Hello, good morning. Theresa May, the Prime Minister, has arrived at

:03:49.:03:54.

the Grenfell Tower block in the last few minutes. We are told that she is

:03:55.:03:59.

meeting residents, and she is meeting firefighters. It is a

:04:00.:04:03.

private meeting, there are no media there. That is about 150 metres or

:04:04.:04:09.

so from where we are in North Kensington, this is the Westway

:04:10.:04:12.

sports centre, and on this basketball pitch you will see

:04:13.:04:16.

hundreds and hundreds of bags and boxes and nappies and clothes that

:04:17.:04:22.

people have donated over the last 24 hours or so. So much stuff has been

:04:23.:04:27.

brought, as we were hearing before the news, not just by people who

:04:28.:04:31.

live here but across London, Greater London and further afield. And the

:04:32.:04:36.

messages, thanks so much for the things you have broad, they don't

:04:37.:04:39.

need anything else at the moment. But they do need volunteers, people

:04:40.:04:44.

volunteering, many of them live in a local area, they are signing a sheet

:04:45.:04:48.

to say, if you need us, ring me, here is my name, here is my number.

:04:49.:04:53.

The idea small group of volunteers here, would-be volunteers, is the

:04:54.:04:59.

sports centre. Last night they offered 300 beds for those who have

:05:00.:05:03.

been evacuated from the houses and flats around Grenfell Tower. In the

:05:04.:05:09.

end, about 40-50 people stayed in that sport centre, they had beds,

:05:10.:05:13.

showers, booed. We are told that some people inside are incredibly

:05:14.:05:17.

traumatised by what they witnessed, and there are mental health workers

:05:18.:05:23.

and social workers who are on hand to talk to them. What is also

:05:24.:05:29.

astonishing, 24 hours after that lays first began, there are still

:05:30.:05:34.

parts of the building still alight. Firefighters are still there, they

:05:35.:05:37.

have worked through the night again to dampen the fire at the block of

:05:38.:05:43.

flats. 12 people officially dead, although that number is expected to

:05:44.:05:46.

rise significantly, with many, many still missing.

:05:47.:05:51.

They include Jessica Urbano Ramirez, a 12-year-old who's believed to have

:05:52.:05:53.

become separated from her family when the blaze broke out.

:05:54.:05:56.

Husna Begum, who lived on the 17th floor

:05:57.:05:58.

and is missing with four other members of her family.

:05:59.:06:01.

27-year-old Mariem Elgwahry, a marketing manager,

:06:02.:06:04.

who is believed to have last spoken to someone

:06:05.:06:07.

66-year-old retired lorry driver Tony Disson,

:06:08.:06:14.

who lived on the 22nd floor of Grenfell Tower.

:06:15.:06:18.

Mo Tuccu, a British national from Eritrea,

:06:19.:06:21.

who was visiting friends or family at the Grenfell Tower

:06:22.:06:24.

with his wife Amalahmedin and three-year-old daughter Amayah.

:06:25.:06:26.

They had gone to break their Ramadan fast.

:06:27.:06:31.

24-year-old artist Khadija Saye, who lived on the 20th floor.

:06:32.:06:34.

Labour MP David Lammy's wife was her employer and mentor.

:06:35.:06:38.

He tweeted, "If you have any information about Khadija Saye,

:06:39.:06:41.

"She is our dear friend, a beautiful soul and emerging artist."

:06:42.:06:47.

Khadija's mother, Mary Mendy, is also missing.

:06:48.:06:52.

Here's a reminder of the last 24 hours.

:06:53.:06:59.

So mums, dads, a marketing manager, an artist, so it goes on, so many

:07:00.:07:07.

people unaccounted for. As I mentioned, flames can still be seen

:07:08.:07:10.

inside the tower block, here is a reminder of the last 24 hours.

:07:11.:07:12.

A massive fire in a west London tower block,

:07:13.:07:17.

many people are being treated for injuries.

:07:18.:07:21.

Move right back, please! Thank you very much!

:07:22.:07:27.

The movement of the fire across the entire building

:07:28.:07:40.

didn't take more than half an hour, so I would say from 1:30am

:07:41.:07:43.

until 2am was just about, by two o'clock it was all in flames.

:07:44.:07:50.

Things falling out, people screaming,

:07:51.:07:54.

Chucking ropes down what they'd made out of bed sheets

:07:55.:07:58.

Just complete nightmare. Absolute nightmare.

:07:59.:08:03.

people flashing their phone lights for help.

:08:04.:08:07.

But the Fire Brigade can't get upstairs.

:08:08.:08:10.

People like at their windows, "Help me, help me, help me."

:08:11.:08:13.

And you could see the fire going into the house

:08:14.:08:15.

and into the last room that they're in

:08:16.:08:17.

and just engulfing their whole apartment.

:08:18.:08:20.

because there was no other way to save them.

:08:21.:08:31.

They were, from what I have heard, also people have picked

:08:32.:08:34.

up their kids and thrown them out for the police to pick them up

:08:35.:08:37.

because there was no other way out the building.

:08:38.:08:40.

I'm very sad to confirm that there have been a number of fatalities.

:08:41.:08:44.

It was like waking up in a horror film.

:08:45.:08:46.

How did you get out, then, Michael? Just my wits.

:08:47.:08:48.

I just, you know, I had to get her out.

:08:49.:08:51.

I love them, so what was I going to do?

:08:52.:08:53.

I'm not going to run on my own, so I made sure she was all right

:08:54.:08:57.

with her breathing and I got down the stairs.

:08:58.:08:59.

And when we got out and looked up, it was engulfed.

:09:00.:09:02.

That's what I'm saying, if we was in there another five

:09:03.:09:04.

minutes we wouldn't even have been able to get out.

:09:05.:09:07.

With the thickness of the smoke that was coming up.

:09:08.:09:09.

Seventh. Seven, yeah?

:09:10.:09:14.

There's mothers that have come out and lost their children.

:09:15.:09:16.

There are firefighters that have come out injured.

:09:17.:09:19.

Like we don't know if there are even going to come out safe.

:09:20.:09:22.

We saw lot. We saw a lot, man.

:09:23.:09:24.

We saw, we saw a lot with our own eyes.

:09:25.:09:27.

It's all right, you don't have to say any more.

:09:28.:09:34.

You've got family who are on the 18th floor?

:09:35.:09:41.

Yeah. And you spoke to them last night?

:09:42.:09:42.

Yeah. And they were saying what?

:09:43.:09:44.

Smoke. Can't get out because of the smoke.

:09:45.:09:47.

So I suspect, I don't know what I would do if I was them,

:09:48.:09:52.

Hoping that the Fire Brigade would get up there.

:09:53.:09:58.

Because that's what they are told to do, isn't it?

:09:59.:10:00.

They are told to stay in the flat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:10:01.:10:03.

So they would have stayed in there, waited and followed instructions.

:10:04.:10:06.

Nothing else you can do from the 18th floor.

:10:07.:10:08.

We don't know if they're alive or dead,

:10:09.:10:11.

if they are in hospital or not. We have not any clue.

:10:12.:10:14.

I just, I just want everything to be false and I don't want to...

:10:15.:10:23.

Our focus now is search and rescue,

:10:24.:10:25.

and then move to, I'm afraid, recovery.

:10:26.:10:28.

And of course we've got to make sure in the meantime

:10:29.:10:32.

we provide shelter to those who've had to flee their homes.

:10:33.:10:35.

I've just come to offer my house, places to stay.

:10:36.:10:38.

I can take about six to eight people in, for as long as they need it.

:10:39.:10:44.

Just basically letting the community know to get together,

:10:45.:10:47.

just to urge them to come, put their names down

:10:48.:10:49.

for who can help and whatever they can offer, really.

:10:50.:11:00.

WE HAVE SOME FIGURES JUST IN FROM NHS ENGLAND, AND THESE ARE to do

:11:01.:11:07.

with people treated in hospitals across London. NHS England tell us

:11:08.:11:13.

that King's College Hospital, they received ten patients, and six

:11:14.:11:17.

remain critical. Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, they receive

:11:18.:11:20.

nine patients, seven remain critical. At the Royal Three, six

:11:21.:11:25.

patients, one critical. Guys and Saint Thomas, one admission, that

:11:26.:11:30.

individual is not said to be in a critical condition. And that St

:11:31.:11:35.

Mary's, 11 admission is, 11 patients, three of those patients

:11:36.:11:41.

are critical. People who either got out themselves or were rescued from

:11:42.:11:50.

Grenfell Tower. Let me introduce you now to two people, thank you very

:11:51.:11:57.

much for talking to us. You have volunteered to help families in

:11:58.:12:02.

particular who are searching for missing loved ones. How are you able

:12:03.:12:07.

to help? I am helping by interpreting from Ethiopian

:12:08.:12:13.

languages to English, and also the Eritrean community as well, to find

:12:14.:12:18.

their missing loved ones. What about yourself? As the Muslim community,

:12:19.:12:26.

we know that 90% of people living in the building were Islam, and most of

:12:27.:12:31.

the missing people, they are families, families missing, so it is

:12:32.:12:39.

a big hit for the Muslim community, but there is a whole missing from my

:12:40.:12:48.

primary school, and I know another family in person, and all of that

:12:49.:12:52.

missing as well, six people, three children, Mum, dad and the mother of

:12:53.:13:02.

the mum, bisulphite or two girls Arabic language. When you are

:13:03.:13:09.

talking about several Tom Bowker families, you are talking about

:13:10.:13:14.

several generations. I know six families. Six families? We start to

:13:15.:13:22.

receive the message, we have been passing messages to each other, and

:13:23.:13:29.

all of that is passing between us as a community. And as you are doing

:13:30.:13:34.

your translating, I mean, what sort of people are the families that you

:13:35.:13:46.

are helping? I had a report of three families, all groups, and they don't

:13:47.:13:52.

have any information on their whereabouts, if they are

:13:53.:13:56.

hospitalised, they are not getting any information to tell us where

:13:57.:14:00.

they are. And we are also looking for a five-year-old, and a

:14:01.:14:11.

three-year-old girl. In terms of not getting information, so no-one

:14:12.:14:15.

official, no-one in authority is talking to the families you are

:14:16.:14:20.

helping? They are not giving us any information, they are not willing to

:14:21.:14:24.

give information to tell us which hospital they are in, if they have

:14:25.:14:27.

been admitted to any hospitals, or if they have been found, or if they

:14:28.:14:33.

are alive. Is it possible they do not know themselves? There is that

:14:34.:14:37.

possibility but I mean, it would be nice, you know, even no, we do not

:14:38.:14:45.

know is an answer, and we haven't even got that kind of answer. The

:14:46.:14:50.

families need to be told whether they do have some information or

:14:51.:14:53.

whether they don't have the information. Sure, I understand, OK.

:14:54.:14:59.

Thank you very much... We are angry as a community, because we think the

:15:00.:15:08.

rescue teams could do more, people were stuck in the building, and I am

:15:09.:15:14.

just wondering why they didn't, instead of just relying on rescue

:15:15.:15:20.

from the ground. They should use something from the air, and they did

:15:21.:15:23.

not. We think they could have saved a much more families.

:15:24.:15:28.

The response has been from the community, rather than the local

:15:29.:15:34.

council or the government, also, most people that have given aid and

:15:35.:15:38.

come to give assistance are people of the community. Thank you, thank

:15:39.:15:42.

you both, thank you. Introducing you now to lay the's

:15:43.:15:54.

housing spokesman, John Healey. Good morning. Have you been to see the

:15:55.:16:01.

block? I have not, I have been talking to firefighters who have

:16:02.:16:05.

been there, and they have never seen anything like it in 30 years of

:16:06.:16:12.

firefighting. It should never have happened, that is what people are

:16:13.:16:14.

saying, it should never have happened. I guess the investigation

:16:15.:16:23.

will tell us that, I'm very mindful, as we look at the wider concerns

:16:24.:16:29.

today, many people are still missing, firefighters still trying

:16:30.:16:32.

to get too many parts of the building, for the first time,

:16:33.:16:36.

hundreds of people have lost everything, they are now homeless.

:16:37.:16:40.

Bearing that in mind, what is also clear is that they, the residents,

:16:41.:16:46.

and others, have really serious questions to put to ministers and

:16:47.:16:50.

the people who run the building. What are the questions that you as a

:16:51.:16:55.

politician would like to see answered, and quickly? For me, I'm

:16:56.:16:59.

glad the Prime Minister is coming for herself this morning, I'm glad

:17:00.:17:02.

she has announced a review, that must not be delayed, it really

:17:03.:17:07.

should report before the summer. The government does not need to wait

:17:08.:17:11.

before then -- until then, it can act on recommendations made by

:17:12.:17:15.

coroners four years ago after the fire in Camberwell. First of all,

:17:16.:17:19.

they can and should start installing sprinkler systems in some of the

:17:20.:17:23.

higher risk high-rise blocks around the country, it should overhaul

:17:24.:17:27.

building regulations which it promised to do four years ago,

:17:28.:17:31.

finally, it really should make sure there is better clear advice and

:17:32.:17:34.

information to residents in tower blocks about what to do in the awful

:17:35.:17:40.

event that they are faced with fire. Theresa May is here. We are told.

:17:41.:17:47.

Meeting firefighters and residents. Jeremy Corbyn is coming after that,

:17:48.:17:52.

is that correct? I'm joining Jeremy Irons 11am, just after speaking with

:17:53.:17:58.

you, we will speak with the firefighters, we will speak to some

:17:59.:18:01.

of those who have been staffing these community rescue centres. One

:18:02.:18:05.

of the things that the brand-new MP told you last night, when I spoke

:18:06.:18:10.

with her, the support centres have been totally swamped with clothes,

:18:11.:18:16.

blankets, food, and love, and that has been another remarkable

:18:17.:18:22.

demonstration of how people pull together to help others, when the

:18:23.:18:27.

very worst is faced. Why do you think the recommendations from the

:18:28.:18:32.

fire in Camberwell in south London have not been implemented when that

:18:33.:18:37.

fire was so many years ago? Ministers were clear at the time,

:18:38.:18:42.

they rejected out of hand two recommendations, they said that they

:18:43.:18:45.

would review the building regulations, which are the Bible for

:18:46.:18:51.

designers, builders, those that build these buildings and do

:18:52.:18:55.

refurbishments. The review has not been started. How do you know? The

:18:56.:19:00.

latest Housing Minister confirmed in October they did not have a plan to

:19:01.:19:05.

even start the review. It has been shelved, put on the shelf for four

:19:06.:19:08.

years, it has not been started, no plan to start it, and that... That

:19:09.:19:14.

is an urgent piece of work which could be done alongside getting on

:19:15.:19:17.

with the business of retrofitting is the technical term, putting

:19:18.:19:21.

sprinkler systems into high-rise blocks, starting with the once that

:19:22.:19:28.

our highest risk, and that should be done... Should that be mandatory? It

:19:29.:19:33.

should be started without delay, I have had confirmation that the calls

:19:34.:19:37.

I have made and Labour has been making over the Minister to come to

:19:38.:19:41.

the House of Commons this afternoon will happen. Our Parliament is

:19:42.:19:46.

paralysed by the paralysis of Downing Street so cannot formally

:19:47.:19:50.

meet until after the Queen's speech but a minister will come, there will

:19:51.:19:54.

be a public session, he will make a statement, MPs, particularly those

:19:55.:19:59.

that represent areas around here, have been working with people who

:20:00.:20:02.

have been trying to deal with this terrible fire, they have a chance to

:20:03.:20:06.

start asking some of the questions that people have been raising with

:20:07.:20:12.

you, and raising with them. Thank you very much. John Healey, Labour's

:20:13.:20:16.

housing spokesman. As you know, they were the first

:20:17.:20:22.

ones in and some of the last out, praise and tributes continue to pour

:20:23.:20:26.

in for the 200 firefighters who tackled and continued to tackle

:20:27.:20:32.

yesterday's blaze in the most challenging circumstances.

:20:33.:20:42.

Grateful Londoners cheered them in the street for their "selfless"

:20:43.:20:44.

work to save men, women and children trapped as flames ripped

:20:45.:20:47.

This Evening Standard photographer described the scene

:20:48.:20:50.

Over the years working for the Evening Standard I have seen some

:20:51.:20:57.

awful things but this has two rate as one of the worst. I felt

:20:58.:21:07.

helpless. -- this has to rate as one of the worst.

:21:08.:22:08.

Theresa May, the Prime Minister, has left the area around Grenfell Tower,

:22:09.:22:16.

she has been here this morning, meeting residents and firefighters,

:22:17.:22:19.

it was a private visit, no media was allowed. A short time ago, Dany

:22:20.:22:31.

Cotton spoke to us and explain the latest. Terribly difficult inside

:22:32.:22:34.

the building, difficult for people to comprehend when they look at the

:22:35.:22:38.

building wife we cannot just go in, but due to the severity of the fire,

:22:39.:22:42.

and what happened in those circumstances, that everything

:22:43.:22:45.

inside all of those rooms basically ends up on the floor, in large

:22:46.:22:49.

amounts of volume of staff, combined with the amount of water in there,

:22:50.:22:53.

it becomes very difficult for officers to get in there and in

:22:54.:22:57.

order to do a systematic and proper search, we need to make the building

:22:58.:23:00.

safe so that officers can get in there and go through it. We are

:23:01.:23:02.

aware that there are people unaccounted for, family and friends

:23:03.:23:07.

are very distressed and need to know the whereabouts of loved ones. We

:23:08.:23:12.

are doing everything we can to work as hard as we can with police and

:23:13.:23:15.

other colleagues to make that happen. Can you tell us a little bit

:23:16.:23:22.

about the immediate aftermath, when officers first arrived, what were

:23:23.:23:25.

they able to do, what levels were they able to reach? Very early on in

:23:26.:23:32.

the fire, my firefighters battled through intense heat, to reach some

:23:33.:23:42.

of the higher floors. I spoke to a crew who had been to the 20th floor.

:23:43.:23:46.

We targeted flats where we were getting calls where we knew where

:23:47.:23:47.

people were. We committed crew of the crew into a

:23:48.:24:12.

very dangerous and very hot situation because we had a passion

:24:13.:24:15.

to do as much as we could to rescue the people in there. It was a very

:24:16.:24:20.

challenging, very difficult, very traumatic event for everyone

:24:21.:24:23.

involved. Have any of your officers been injured? We had minor injuries

:24:24.:24:29.

yesterday, up to nine of my firefighters suffered minor burns.

:24:30.:24:32.

Some heat exhaustion. I'm more concerned longer term

:24:33.:24:48.

about the mental impact on a lot of people who were here,

:24:49.:24:51.

because this event was unprecedented and people saw and heard

:24:52.:24:54.

things on a scale they had Going forward, one of my main

:24:55.:24:57.

concerns for firefighters is about mental well-being and doing trauma

:24:58.:25:01.

care and counselling for them. I understand the point you made

:25:02.:25:11.

about the difficult circumstances The figure of those confirmed dead,

:25:12.:25:14.

the police figure, so far, 12 confirmed dead, they have warned

:25:15.:25:17.

they expect that figure Unfortunately, this is the awful

:25:18.:25:20.

thing for the people involved, we are unaware of how many people

:25:21.:25:25.

are in the building, as you can appreciate,

:25:26.:25:27.

this is a very large building with a large number

:25:28.:25:30.

of people in there. Some people may have lived alone,

:25:31.:25:33.

we are not sure if they are in there People who were reported missing

:25:34.:25:37.

who subsequently may have been We are completely unaware

:25:38.:25:41.

at the moment, we can only work with numbers

:25:42.:25:48.

in the local authority and police As soon as we can, we will go

:25:49.:25:51.

into the building and do the painstaking fingertip search

:25:52.:25:55.

in conjunction with Had me introduce you to the general

:25:56.:26:04.

secretary for the Fire Brigades union, also a firefighter for 22

:26:05.:26:13.

years, good morning, Matt Wrack, and Ronnie king, a firefighter for 40

:26:14.:26:18.

years in London, Wales, Scotland and a chief fire officer for 20 years

:26:19.:26:20.

and is now a administrative secretary for the all party Fire

:26:21.:26:25.

safety and rescue group. First of all, as former firefighters, can you

:26:26.:26:29.

give an insight to the audience as to what it is like when you arrive

:26:30.:26:34.

at the scene of a blaze like the one we saw yesterday? The first thing to

:26:35.:26:41.

say, looking around the site, horrifying, we have not seen

:26:42.:26:43.

anything like that, I certainly have not. I have been too many fires in

:26:44.:26:48.

high-rise tower blocks but I have never seen anything like this. What

:26:49.:26:53.

firefighters have been prepared for and train for is one thing but what

:26:54.:26:57.

they saw here, completely different. You expect the fire to be contained

:26:58.:27:02.

to the flat, the floor of origin. What we saw, as we have seen, the

:27:03.:27:07.

entire building engulfed in flames, the people arriving first will have

:27:08.:27:10.

been in complete shock and will not have been prepared for this,

:27:11.:27:17.

absolutely staggering. Having been a fireman, and chief fire officer, I

:27:18.:27:24.

have arrived at incidents were command decisions have been made and

:27:25.:27:28.

it has got to a certain level of resources... In this case, I think

:27:29.:27:33.

if I had arrived at that, and we got to the period where we are, where we

:27:34.:27:37.

were, when perhaps the chief fire officer arrived, you would have then

:27:38.:27:46.

expected a plan of attack, a strategy, and whether to concentrate

:27:47.:27:51.

on water or rescue. There is a point reached where both run

:27:52.:27:58.

simultaneously. Very stressful situation for everybody involved. I

:27:59.:28:03.

can do nothing but praise firefighters and officers. Does it

:28:04.:28:10.

surprise you, is it unusual that there are still blazes burning in

:28:11.:28:18.

the centre of that block? No, clearly, what is remarkable is that

:28:19.:28:20.

firefighters throughout that incident were on upper floors,

:28:21.:28:24.

trying to rescue people, large numbers of people have been rescued,

:28:25.:28:30.

horrendous loss of life, the work that firefighters do, rescuing large

:28:31.:28:36.

numbers of people, is incredible. They are at the stage now, the final

:28:37.:28:41.

stages of eliminating the last bits of fire, smoke, heat, the safety of

:28:42.:28:45.

the building, the safety of the cruise becomes paramount as well.

:28:46.:28:51.

There have been photographs of firefighters clearly very

:28:52.:28:55.

emotionally affected by what they saw. Has that happened to you?

:28:56.:29:03.

Firefighters have ways of dealing with these sorts of incidences.

:29:04.:29:08.

There is a humour, a camaraderie, all of that plays a role. I suspect

:29:09.:29:13.

every firefighter will have things that will stick with them for the

:29:14.:29:16.

rest of their lives, incidents they have been to, particular horrors

:29:17.:29:20.

they have seen. There is a greater awareness than when I was around and

:29:21.:29:24.

Ronnie was around about mental health issues. There are better

:29:25.:29:27.

counselling services than there was 20 years ago, or more. That is

:29:28.:29:32.

something that great deal more effort needs to be put into in this

:29:33.:29:39.

day and age. This stay put policy, to allow firefighters to get up

:29:40.:29:43.

stairwells, so they are not impeded by people trying to get out in a

:29:44.:29:47.

situation like that, does that stay put policy have to be reviewed,

:29:48.:29:50.

after what happened at Grenfell Tower? It was reviewed after 2009,

:29:51.:30:00.

Lakanal House, the inquest was 2013. It is a very difficult one. The

:30:01.:30:06.

building, its fabric, its protection, is designed for people

:30:07.:30:10.

to stay in their flats, for one hour, at least, you would expect the

:30:11.:30:16.

flat not to be penetrated, you would expect the escape route of the

:30:17.:30:20.

integral and people can escape safely, something obviously did not

:30:21.:30:26.

their right here. Whether it was there were failings in the escape

:30:27.:30:29.

route facilities, penetrations into the fire resistance...

:30:30.:30:37.

There has been talk about the cladding and the effect of the

:30:38.:30:45.

cladding on the building. Basically, London building acts were amended in

:30:46.:30:50.

1986, and they were overtaken by the building regulations for the rest of

:30:51.:30:54.

the UK - London falling in line with the rest of the UK. The outside wall

:30:55.:31:01.

of a building, this building, would have hard and our's resistance under

:31:02.:31:06.

the London building act. When it was replaced by the building

:31:07.:31:08.

regulations, the building regulations only allow - or do allow

:31:09.:31:17.

a surface which is a much weaker provision of fire resistance. In

:31:18.:31:21.

fact, it is no fire as a stance on the outside. We have to revisit

:31:22.:31:32.

that. Can I just interrupt? I am a layperson, I have no experience of

:31:33.:31:36.

fire safety, but you are telling me that it is OK for the outside of a

:31:37.:31:41.

building, the exterior of a building, to be a bit fire

:31:42.:31:45.

resistant, but the whole thing doesn't have to be fire assistant,

:31:46.:31:49.

is that what you are saying to me? That is right, yes. I don't

:31:50.:31:54.

understand it. A building close by not to be affected by a fire in that

:31:55.:31:59.

building, not for this building to be affected by a fire spreading

:32:00.:32:05.

upwards and internally. So it really came out of Lakanal, but the coroner

:32:06.:32:12.

ruled that was the appropriate legislation at the time, so it

:32:13.:32:17.

complied. But what we have said, four years since the Lakanal House

:32:18.:32:23.

fire, we have been saying successfully, successively sorry,

:32:24.:32:29.

two ministers over the period of four years, to say we need to review

:32:30.:32:34.

the regulations. What response have you had, if you have said it to four

:32:35.:32:40.

ministers? Three ministers over four years, they say they are looking at

:32:41.:32:45.

it. Fire deaths have gone down, and while there has been an opt in this

:32:46.:32:49.

year, generally fire safety is a good news, but you get something

:32:50.:32:54.

like this, you got a warning with Lakanal, and we have said you must

:32:55.:32:58.

take steps. I mean, the coroner said we should be looking at automatic

:32:59.:33:02.

fire sprinkler protection in buildings. 4000 high-rise flats in

:33:03.:33:08.

the United Kingdom. 4000 tower blocks. Without sprinklers. That is

:33:09.:33:15.

a scandal. If it was new, they would be installed? Yes, but the

:33:16.:33:21.

regulations are for new buildings, or major refurbishments. But we need

:33:22.:33:26.

to do a revisit, we have asked the ministers, they are saying, yes, we

:33:27.:33:31.

are still looking at it. In fact, Gavin Barwell was about to meet the

:33:32.:33:35.

all-party group. The former housing minister lost his job at the

:33:36.:33:40.

election and has been made to me's chief of staff. Once the election

:33:41.:33:46.

was announced, he had to say whether he was going to agree, we will now

:33:47.:33:51.

revisit the regulations, that might have been what he was going to say.

:33:52.:34:01.

Perhaps he will qualify that. We Avastin for an interview, so far

:34:02.:34:06.

without success. Matt Wrack, you are from the Fire Brigades Union, some

:34:07.:34:09.

are linking the closure of ten fire stations with the loss of 552 jobs,

:34:10.:34:14.

made by the former Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, with what happened at

:34:15.:34:18.

Grenfell Tower. You, however, are very cautious about making that

:34:19.:34:25.

link, as I understand it. We have still got an incident going on,

:34:26.:34:28.

there are still people missing, still people doing their job, and I

:34:29.:34:32.

think we need to concentrate on that. I want to separate the two

:34:33.:34:36.

issues at this stage, the whole thing needs to be investigated, and

:34:37.:34:41.

clearly we were opposed to those reductions, we think they made

:34:42.:34:44.

London is less safe. Whether it has had a direct impact on this incident

:34:45.:34:50.

I cannot stay at this stage. In terms of this incident, echoing

:34:51.:34:55.

Ronnie's point, the question arises, how can it even happen? We will find

:34:56.:34:59.

out this was an avoidable tragedy, and that is horrifying in a wealthy

:35:00.:35:04.

country, that this can happen. Why do you think we will find out it was

:35:05.:35:10.

avoidable? As Ronnie has just explained, there is huge amount of

:35:11.:35:14.

expertise around buildings, how they react in fires, how you can detect

:35:15.:35:19.

them, and what needs to be put in place. Within the Fire Service,

:35:20.:35:23.

there is a huge amount of expertise about how you deal with buyers when

:35:24.:35:28.

they happen. If those are put together, we can significantly

:35:29.:35:31.

reduce the risk to residents living in accommodation like that.

:35:32.:35:38.

Something has gone horrifyingly wrong for us to be standing here

:35:39.:35:42.

today. Our reporter spoke to the architect of Grenfell Tower, who

:35:43.:35:47.

said it was in Cumbria and support to him that the fire spread in the

:35:48.:35:53.

way it did. -- who said it was incomprehensible to him that the

:35:54.:35:58.

fire spread in the way it did. What should the mayor do? He has said

:35:59.:36:02.

that this needs to be thoroughly investigated. There is a huge amount

:36:03.:36:06.

of support, fantastic community solidarity which is great to see,

:36:07.:36:11.

and a whole estate has been... It is very eerie over there, the whole

:36:12.:36:17.

state has been evacuated. People need immediate support, so the

:36:18.:36:20.

authorities, the mayor need to do that. In terms of the incident, I

:36:21.:36:27.

think this has to be very thoroughly addressed, and all interested

:36:28.:36:34.

parties, including Ronnie and his colleagues, ourselves, community

:36:35.:36:38.

groups, people who have lived there, have copyright to ask very

:36:39.:36:40.

challenging questions about why this happened. Could it have been

:36:41.:36:47.

foreseen? Could it have been prevented? Matt Wrack, general

:36:48.:36:50.

secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, and Ronnie King, chair of the

:36:51.:36:55.

all-party fire and safety rescue group. Good morning, it is 10:36, I

:36:56.:37:02.

mentioned those patients who are continuing to be treated in

:37:03.:37:07.

hospital, many of them still in a critical condition. We can talk to

:37:08.:37:11.

Tulip Mazumdar, who is outside St Mary's Hospital, what is the latest

:37:12.:37:17.

from there? Well, we have been given an update from NHS England, who have

:37:18.:37:22.

been letting us note the situation of the patients in the five London

:37:23.:37:28.

hospitals that are still caring for patients from this dreadful buyer.

:37:29.:37:32.

37 patients are still receiving hospital treatment. -- this dreadful

:37:33.:37:39.

fire. 17 are still in critical care. I can give you a breakdown here

:37:40.:37:43.

there are the most number of patients being treated, 11, three of

:37:44.:37:48.

which are in critical care. King's College Hospital, not far from here,

:37:49.:37:53.

ten patients, six of them in critical care. Chelsea and

:37:54.:37:57.

Westminster is treating nine patients, seven of them are in

:37:58.:38:01.

critical care. The Royal Free was looking after six patients, one of

:38:02.:38:06.

them is in critical care. And guys and Saint Thomas's is looking after

:38:07.:38:10.

one patient, and that patient is not in critical care. So clearly,

:38:11.:38:16.

doctors and nurses, all the medics here and in those other four

:38:17.:38:20.

hospitals, working very hard from overnight on Tuesday into Wednesday,

:38:21.:38:24.

and all day yesterday as well as today. This has been a really

:38:25.:38:29.

desperate situation for many people who have been coming and looking for

:38:30.:38:36.

family. There is still a lot of confusion. The doctors here have

:38:37.:38:39.

been treating patients mainly for smoke inhalation, so patients will

:38:40.:38:45.

be getting oxygen, some of them, we understand, in other hospitals, are

:38:46.:38:51.

being put and general anaesthetic so they can be treated as comfortably

:38:52.:38:57.

as possible. But really, at this point, time is ticking now to find

:38:58.:39:02.

more people. Like I said, families have been coming here desperate to

:39:03.:39:06.

find out if their family members are here, desperately searching, but as

:39:07.:39:10.

time goes on, it is becoming less likely that people will be coming in

:39:11.:39:16.

for treatment. And I think you have managed to speak to a couple of

:39:17.:39:19.

people as they have been going into the hospital. Yes, Victoria, it has

:39:20.:39:26.

just been a really harrowing morning, I have to say. I mean, I

:39:27.:39:30.

was here yesterday as well, and we saw families coming in, there was a

:39:31.:39:34.

man just behind me at the entrance, and he was shouting, he was saying,

:39:35.:39:40.

we are not getting any information, I don't know where my loved ones

:39:41.:39:46.

are. Today, similar scenes, but really much more difficult, there

:39:47.:39:50.

was a family that just parked up over there, we saw them leaving the

:39:51.:39:56.

hospital, a woman was wailing, she was so upset. She was being

:39:57.:40:01.

comforted by other family members. We heard her, before we saw her, and

:40:02.:40:06.

her screams were so chilling. We went over, and we ask that they were

:40:07.:40:13.

OK, how they were as a family, whether they had received any

:40:14.:40:16.

information. They were asking us if we had received any information, and

:40:17.:40:20.

they claim to us that they were looking for a mother, the mother's

:40:21.:40:28.

name is Burkit Haftom, they were looking for her and her son,

:40:29.:40:35.

12-year-old Birok Haftom, they were desperately searching for them. They

:40:36.:40:39.

have gone from hospital to hospital, it seems that St Mary's were the

:40:40.:40:43.

last hospital they had been to, and they were told by police, if your

:40:44.:40:47.

family members are not here or at the other hospitals, if you have not

:40:48.:40:51.

heard from them so far, then I am afraid you have to assume the worst,

:40:52.:40:55.

that they were in that building. I saw them when they had me that

:40:56.:41:00.

realisation, that they are not here, this was the last place they could

:41:01.:41:05.

have been, and they are not here. The look on their faces, the other

:41:06.:41:10.

devastation, they were so upset. They didn't know what to do, they

:41:11.:41:14.

said to me, can you help us? Is there anything I could do, I said I

:41:15.:41:21.

would say their names on BBC News, Burkit Haftom is the mother, the

:41:22.:41:25.

12-year-old son is Birok Haftom. You know, everybody would be out looking

:41:26.:41:33.

for them, and family are already, but as time goes on, we are now

:41:34.:41:38.

several hours, you know, overnight, all of yesterday, overnight today,

:41:39.:41:41.

if those family members have not turned up, the police have advised

:41:42.:41:44.

that chances are they are in that building. And coming to that

:41:45.:41:48.

realisation has clearly been extremely difficult for them, and

:41:49.:41:52.

they are being that by their family. They drove away just without

:41:53.:41:55.

knowledge that they didn't actually know where they were going what they

:41:56.:41:59.

were going to do. I also managed to a lady, also a friend of that

:42:00.:42:10.

family, she was here seeing her friend Helen and their 12-year-old

:42:11.:42:15.

daughter, who is in intensive care. She was said to be extremely unwell,

:42:16.:42:20.

and I spoke to a friend of her mother's earlier, her name is Chesmi

:42:21.:42:33.

Rodrigo. She is in I -- ICU, she doesn't know not. We have just seen

:42:34.:42:37.

her extended family that you have gone to see, just utterly

:42:38.:42:43.

distraught. How are you? How is the community? I don't know, really, I

:42:44.:42:49.

don't know what to say, you know, I am really stressed, really

:42:50.:42:55.

disappointed, I couldn't believe what happened to them. I saw them

:42:56.:43:01.

yesterday, so I couldn't believe, it was like a dream, you know? So I

:43:02.:43:13.

really can't believe these things. We have all seen the pictures, for

:43:14.:43:17.

you, this is so close to home, how were you last night? Were you able

:43:18.:43:24.

to sleep? No, I couldn't sleep, actually, I have two children, so I

:43:25.:43:30.

couldn't sleep, I was crying at the same time, one o'clock, so I was

:43:31.:43:34.

crying, screaming, in my house, you know? Even my children, then we came

:43:35.:43:42.

around at three o'clock new building, so we found Helen over

:43:43.:43:49.

there around four o'clock. That is very, very upsetting. I have just

:43:50.:43:52.

been looking at my timeline on Twitter, a number of you are

:43:53.:43:59.

unpressed by the fact that he may, the Prime Minister, is here in a

:44:00.:44:03.

private capacity. That simply means that cameras are not allowed there.

:44:04.:44:08.

We are told that she has met residents and firefighters. She left

:44:09.:44:14.

at about 10:20, having arrived just before ten o'clock. Caroline says,

:44:15.:44:17.

the Prime Minister makes a private visit, what a joke, total lack of

:44:18.:44:24.

respect for those involved. Another, this is from Nusat, disgusting that

:44:25.:44:29.

the Prime Minister is visiting in private, what is the point? A number

:44:30.:44:35.

of you would like to praise the firefighters, you have messaged me

:44:36.:44:41.

on Twitter to say what they have done is absolutely astonishing.

:44:42.:44:46.

Thank you for those, you can use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE if you want to

:44:47.:44:50.

get in touch. I'm going to introduce you to a QC, Joe, nice to talk to

:44:51.:44:58.

you, tell us why you are here. A lot of people are going to have

:44:59.:45:02.

complicated problems to sort out, problems today, where are people

:45:03.:45:05.

going to live, how are people going to survive, what about your

:45:06.:45:11.

employment, your job? What is your employer going to say? What about

:45:12.:45:14.

people who haven't got insurance? What about that period of time

:45:15.:45:19.

before your insurers pay out? Those are all really complicated problems,

:45:20.:45:24.

and there is something that lawyers - and stressful - and there is

:45:25.:45:27.

something that lawyers can do to help with those problems. And then

:45:28.:45:31.

tomorrow, you know, people are going to start to wonder about how they

:45:32.:45:36.

put their lives back together, and there is also something, a small

:45:37.:45:40.

thing, that lawyers can do to help that process. Making sure that legal

:45:41.:45:45.

accountability, moral accountability rests where it should.

:45:46.:45:47.

I'm going to Paul's you there, you are not an ambulance chaser... ? Me,

:45:48.:45:58.

hundreds of other lawyers, at the North Kensington law centre, housing

:45:59.:46:02.

lawyers, employment lawyers, personal injury lawyers, people want

:46:03.:46:18.

to help. -- I'm going to pause you there. There is a role for the law,

:46:19.:46:22.

people will not be able to find accountability without the help of

:46:23.:46:25.

lawyers, many will want to do it for free because this... They recognise

:46:26.:46:31.

this is... It is very difficult to be here and not feel very upset

:46:32.:46:36.

about it all. If people would like your help, how should they get in

:46:37.:46:42.

touch with you, you are from the Good Law Project and the North

:46:43.:46:45.

Kensington law centre. The first thing to be done, triage, people

:46:46.:46:52.

need to have their particular problems broken down for them.

:46:53.:46:58.

Housing problem, employment problem, insurance issue, so far as I can see

:46:59.:47:02.

at the moment, people doing that job best of all are the North Kensington

:47:03.:47:09.

law centre, and I have tweeted out their contact details. After this, I

:47:10.:47:15.

am going to go there and see what help they need from lawyers. Then I

:47:16.:47:18.

will get in touch with all the lawyers I speak with and tell them

:47:19.:47:23.

that if you want to be able to help, that is the best way. In the longer

:47:24.:47:27.

term, the problems about accountability, the lessons to be

:47:28.:47:32.

learned, the law has some part to play, but you have to hope that the

:47:33.:47:37.

government recognises the problem, and has a public enquiry. So that

:47:38.:47:41.

this never happens again. Thank you very much for joining us.

:47:42.:47:56.

This place is much busier than when we first came on error, I am going

:47:57.:48:01.

to take a look around, I have not done that for a while, inside the

:48:02.:48:07.

basketball court, right next to the Westway Sports Centre, there were

:48:08.:48:14.

hundreds of bags and now dozens of volunteers, tidying through those

:48:15.:48:19.

donations. Trying to get them in some sort of order. And here,

:48:20.:48:27.

volunteers arriving to either sign in or, if they have enough

:48:28.:48:34.

volunteers, to leave a name and number to be contacted, tonight,

:48:35.:48:38.

tomorrow, the weekend, that is where they are leaving contact details,

:48:39.:48:41.

people saying, I want to help, I want to do something, call on me at

:48:42.:48:47.

any point. Let me introduce you to some or residence. Emily, do come

:48:48.:48:54.

in. I'm Victoria, nice to see you. And Amina, I beg your pardon, it is

:48:55.:49:01.

my writing! Sorry. I'm Victoria, nice to meet you. Do come in. Lovely

:49:02.:49:09.

to meet you. I have a microphone, just one between us. How are you

:49:10.:49:16.

today? Upset. Yeah, upset. Not well, angry, angry. Very angry. Yeah, very

:49:17.:49:23.

angry. What's happened is disgusting. It could have been

:49:24.:49:25.

prevented, it could have been prevented. You know, you have got

:49:26.:49:31.

all them innocent people that have died, that are seriously ill in

:49:32.:49:37.

hospital, and it is a joke, it is a joke. Like I said, a lot more could

:49:38.:49:41.

have been done, a lot more could have been done. What do you think

:49:42.:49:47.

could have been done? The housing association, they could have done a

:49:48.:49:51.

lot more. The management organisation who ran it... Yeah, to

:49:52.:49:58.

be quite honest, TMO, they do not care about their tenants whatsoever.

:49:59.:50:03.

I know people that are in TMO, such as my daughter, and I know this is

:50:04.:50:11.

irrelevant to what has happened, but... I'm going to Paul's you, I

:50:12.:50:15.

want to talk about the people of Grenfell Tower, if I may. My

:50:16.:50:22.

anger... You can ask him, and then come back. We have been let down by

:50:23.:50:31.

the council. The tenant management organisation, where are they?

:50:32.:50:34.

Everyone is pulling together, it is the community, I have not seen

:50:35.:50:39.

anyone! I have not seen any support... I live directly opposite.

:50:40.:50:45.

Saw I it... I smell the fire, 12:30am, I came out, and I can

:50:46.:50:52.

literally see people in the windows, banging, children screaming. I have

:50:53.:50:59.

heard grown men literally on fire, banging at the windows until the

:51:00.:51:04.

windows were full of smoke. Standing there, I cannot do anything. Even

:51:05.:51:08.

until now, I have not seen any kind of support will stop everyone is

:51:09.:51:15.

trying to get a story and understand what is going on, but people feel

:51:16.:51:18.

let down. We don't seem to have that support. We don't seem to get any

:51:19.:51:25.

feedback from the council, where are they? For what it's worth, for what

:51:26.:51:33.

it's worth, I saw the council leader, yesterday morning, first

:51:34.:51:37.

thing, I saw a clip of one of the guys who runs the particular

:51:38.:51:40.

management organisation. I saw a clip of him on the news. If he came

:51:41.:51:48.

here, what would you say to him? To be honest, I am a tenant, whenever

:51:49.:51:56.

there is a repair, whenever there is something, it is always

:51:57.:52:00.

cost-cutting, always a delay, it is hogwash, we have heard it all

:52:01.:52:05.

before. Where do you go? They keep people waiting. So many families

:52:06.:52:11.

have not even been told there is missing. I have family there, we

:52:12.:52:15.

don't know where they are, very close friends, my wife has friends

:52:16.:52:22.

there, relatives... I know one family, five kids and the mother are

:52:23.:52:28.

missing. Five children! On the 22nd, 21st floor. Ten and under. My

:52:29.:52:37.

daughter goes to a school down the road, Oxford Garden School... Half

:52:38.:52:43.

the class...! Sermon each order not in, so money children unaccounted

:52:44.:52:50.

for. -- so many children not in. It should be at schools as well. Even

:52:51.:52:54.

the teachers dealing with this, massive impact, for them, for the

:52:55.:52:58.

children... My daughter's best friend, we know, gone. They went in

:52:59.:53:05.

together only a couple of days ago. This is sad and shocking. My anger

:53:06.:53:12.

is totally different, my anger... I was here since the blaze happened,

:53:13.:53:21.

and I was on... On the side of the building, I was told there was only

:53:22.:53:26.

a few police officers, don't get me wrong, I don't have problems with

:53:27.:53:29.

police officers, the only police officers were there, 40 minutes

:53:30.:53:34.

later, came more police officers. Let me get that straight. I don't

:53:35.:53:40.

know about the building, personally I don't know nobody from that block,

:53:41.:53:45.

maybe a friend of a friend, I know my son's friends, they are all dead,

:53:46.:53:50.

I don't have a personal contact. I don't have a problem with the

:53:51.:53:53.

structure of the building, I don't know about that, but when I was

:53:54.:53:55.

there yesterday, and what I have seen, I was there on the bridge, to

:53:56.:54:00.

the building, I told people to jump, to get off, to put the kids throw

:54:01.:54:05.

the kids, wanted to get mattresses... Police were pushing us

:54:06.:54:10.

away, fathers were coming from the prayer, they had to see their

:54:11.:54:13.

children and their wives on the window, hopeless, can do anything.

:54:14.:54:17.

We said, it is burning on the side, just starting, get the people of

:54:18.:54:21.

that side of the building. Police were saying, don't, go away, we are

:54:22.:54:27.

dealing with this. They pushed us from the bridge, all the way down,

:54:28.:54:31.

we ran around to the car wash, we have seen the fire, coming upwards,

:54:32.:54:35.

and then gradually, going on the roof, by then, there was more time

:54:36.:54:44.

that people could get off. Lease offices and parents on the

:54:45.:54:48.

telephone, they have been told stay in your property. -- police

:54:49.:54:51.

officers. They were told to stay in the property. It is dangerous?

:54:52.:54:57.

Sorry, it was not, my iPhone does not lie about the timing. They had

:54:58.:55:01.

time to escape, they were on the windows screaming and shouting, the

:55:02.:55:06.

fire happened from the outside in. It did not happen from the inside

:55:07.:55:10.

out, and the outside in, they have plenty of time. The firemen came two

:55:11.:55:15.

hours later, could not even park their car anyway to get access

:55:16.:55:20.

through, so they came all the way through, but their car there. And

:55:21.:55:25.

then they took the water by the time they did that, for 20 5am, and I had

:55:26.:55:33.

them recorded. Before that, 2am, we saw all the children crying,

:55:34.:55:45.

shouting, screaming, because we were hopeless. Like a piece of paper,

:55:46.:55:51.

when you burn it from one side to the other, that is exactly what we

:55:52.:55:54.

saw happen to them full. One minute they were there, the next minute

:55:55.:55:59.

they were gone. My next-door neighbour works as a fire crews man,

:56:00.:56:05.

she said they have not confirmed that 50 children are dead but more

:56:06.:56:09.

than 50 children are dead. More than 100 bodies are dead. Look at that

:56:10.:56:15.

building, are you telling me 12 people?! The police... In the

:56:16.:56:20.

beginning, I was there with the police officers, they only had one

:56:21.:56:28.

staircase one! Hands shaking, one? I am not related to them, I don't know

:56:29.:56:32.

them, I don't care if they are juries, Muslim, Christian, you see

:56:33.:56:36.

someone burning, the first thing you want to do is to go and grab them.

:56:37.:56:40.

More Muslims are feeling that this is a revenge. I'm telling you how I

:56:41.:56:51.

feel. Revenge for what? London Bridge and stuff like that, they are

:56:52.:56:54.

going to think this is a revenge, I am telling you how people feel.

:56:55.:56:58.

People will not say what they are feeling because they are scared. I

:56:59.:57:07.

don't have any relation. I cannot tell you how I feel. We have a very

:57:08.:57:21.

short amount of time left. Friends missing, that is what I am bringing

:57:22.:57:38.

him in. You have friends missing. How are you? I'm hoping for the

:57:39.:57:48.

best. People searching. Still no trace. So much love and positivity

:57:49.:57:58.

and strength... Being directed to you from around the country right

:57:59.:58:05.

now. Thank you so much. And cute. Thank you for speaking with us.

:58:06.:58:06.

Thank you, we appreciate it. A message from Kerrygold on

:58:07.:58:17.

Facebook, as a high-rise tenant I'm deeply troubled, we do not get

:58:18.:58:21.

listened to when we raise concerns. Also, the block is due to have an

:58:22.:58:26.

upgrade on the outside to make it look appealing, but these flats are

:58:27.:58:30.

tiny and severely overcrowded, not just with residents but with

:58:31.:58:35.

possessions, because there is no storage, it is a fire risk and they

:58:36.:58:39.

don't care. They only want to paper over problems with housing with

:58:40.:58:45.

external makeovers. So many people have needlessly died at Grenfell

:58:46.:58:50.

Tower, it is criminal. Let's bring you this police conference. Due to

:58:51.:58:57.

the nature of the content in the building and

:58:58.:59:00.

some areas that are

:59:01.:59:01.