26/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Our top story today: Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party,

the DUP, say they're close to reaching a deal with

the Conservatives to keep Theresa May in power.

Also on the programme: Every single tower block that's had its external

cladding tested so far has failed fire safety tests.

The key priority for us has got to be to keep people safe and that is

why we are making sure this process works as quickly as possible. That

was the housing minister. Labour's Shadow Chancellor John

McDonnell says victims of the Grenfell Tower fire

were murdered by political Also on the programme: Two months

after we revealed 800 women were suing the NHS for debilitating

pain caused by vaginal mesh implants, surgeons tell us that NHS

England is using mesh to repair hernias which also leaves many

patients in chronic pain. It is as if I have been stabbed with

something hot. I don't want to eat. I don't want to venture out too far.

It started out being agony, absolutely fire burning agony.

We'll bring you that exclusive story in about 15 minutes.

A blue shark terrified holiday makers when it appeared in shallow

waters off the coast of Majorca surrounded by swimmers.

We'll hear from some of those in the water at the time.

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

Our top story today: The Democratic Unionist leader,

Arlene Foster, has said she believes her party

is close to securing a deal with Downing Street which would see

the DUP agree to support the minority Conservative government.

She's due to hold talks with Theresa May in London this morning.

Our political correspondent Iain Watson is in Westminster.

What do we know? We know that the mood music is very soothing for

Theresa May this morning. Arlene Foster has been writing in the

Belfast Telegraph, mentioning how influential her party is. Ten MPs

from Northern Ireland. She is saying that she can reach a deal that will

work for both sides of the community and she is close to concluding an

appropriate arrangement, as she calls it, with Theresa May. All of

that tends to suggest that we might get that deal signed this morning.

We are expecting about an hour of talks with the Prime Minister in

Downing Street. This is crucial for Theresa May for a very simple

reason. She lost her overall majority, but also here in

Westminster on Wednesday there will be a vote on the Queen's Speech, the

legislative programme for the next two years. She will want the deal

sealed with the DUP before that to make sure it goes through. They are

likely to back the Budget as well. But this will be limited deal,

confidence and supply deal. A lot of the individual votes on individual

pieces of legislation will have to be negotiated with the DUP line by

line. It will get Theresa May out of a big hole but she will still be

scrabbling around to try to get majority support over the next few

years. The other issue is how much it will cost the government. Some of

the demands from the DUP our investment in public services in

Northern Ireland and also for a lower level of corporation tax. If

they get that, it could open up demand from other parts of the UK,

the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly, for similar

treatment. Will we get to know how much it will cost the electorate? I

think we will find out in due course. It will not be there in

black and white. What both Arlene Foster and Theresa May have said is

that this deal will be transparent and it will be published. It will be

down to us to work out what the cost of the commitments are likely to be.

The government have also got to make it clear whether the money that goes

to Northern Ireland, however much it is in the end, and there have been

various estimates ranging from ?750 million up to ?2 billion, is whether

there will be the existing formula used to distribute that money,

meaning Scotland and Wales would gain, but in a government even more,

and if that is not the case we are probably going to see pressure on

Theresa May's government and opposition leaders will accuse her

of trying to buy support at a difficult time. She will probably

feel that she has very little choice. If she wants two years of

legislation and Brexit to go through in Parliament. Thank you.

Joanna Gosling is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

Every single tower block which has had its cladding tested

since the Grenfell disaster has failed fire safety inspections.

60 high rises in 25 areas of England have been examined so far.

Local councils are being urged to send samples in more

The number of buildings that have now failed fire safety checks

following the Grenfell Tower disaster stands at 60 in England

Of those examined so far, every single sample has failed.

It was concerns over external cladding combined with issues

surrounding fire doors, gas pipes and insulation

which triggered the mass evacuation of four tower blocks in Camden.

Where we have residents, we are making sure we continue

Just keep having the conversation again and again, keeping people

awake, making sure there are people on the block.

The Fire Service says it is not safe to stay and they need to go.

And in Scotland Holyrood will carry out its own

investigation into the safety of high-rise tower blocks.

It is thought up to 600 buildings in total are to be tested in England

with councils being told to prioritise the ones

But just how long this process will take is still not clear.

Theresa May is due to chair a meeting of the Grenfell Tower

Recovery Task Force later today where she will be updated

on the recovery effort that could take many weeks if not months.

More inquests are also expected to be opened and adjourned this

afternoon into the deaths of the victims.

Theresa May will set out more details today of how the government

plans to treat more than 3 million EU citizens living in

Last week, the Prime Minister outlined proposals to offer EU

nationals settled status, which would give those who have

spent five years in the UK equal rights on healthcare,

education and benefits, but only if British people living

in the European Union were given similar entitlements.

Six police officers were injured last night during a protest in East

London about the death of a man last week, six days after he'd

Bricks were thrown and bins set on fire

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has said

a post-mortem examination on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed

that, contrary to some claims, he had no spinal injuries caused

Surgeons have told this programme that NHS England

hernias which leaves many patients in chronic pain.

NHS England said mesh implants had been successfully used to treat

The material is its recommended method for treating the condition.

It is used on tens of thousands of patients every year.

The use of mesh involves pushing bulging tissue back into the abdomen

and covering it with the material, and can be delivered via open

The doctors' union, the British Medical Association,

will claim today that years of underinvestment have left

the NHS failing too many people, too often.

The head of the BMA, Mark Porter, will accuse ministers of failing

to spend as much on the health service as other European

The UK's economic growth will remain anaemic

until the end of the decade, according to the British

The group of business leaders says it doesn't expect growth to be more

than 1.5% by 2020 and that inflation may end up

Our business correspondent Joe Lynam reports.

Despite some predictions, Britain's economy grew robustly

immediately after the referendum last year, but

it has slowed down a lot this year, and now it is the weakest in Europe.

The British Chambers of Commerce, representing thousands of small and

medium-sized companies, says their GDP will remain anaemic

It says growth this year will be 1.5% but dip to 1.3% next year

before rising slightly back to 1.5% in 2019.

It expects inflation to peak at 3.4% this year, and hold back

But it thinks growth in exports and the

construction sector will be higher this year than previously thought.

The biggest changes to our forecast revolve around the economy, we think

growth will remain flat over the next three years and around

inflation, which is going to spike higher before we see some relief.

Exports will do well this year, but less well in years to come.

So we do face a situation where our growth

is pretty anaemic, not as good as it could be,

and certainly is not as

good as other countries around the world.

The BCC has urged the government to spend more on infrastructure,

especially broadband and mobile phone connectivity, and described

the British road network is heavilyas heavily congested.

Seven people have been hospitalised after taking

a "particularly potent" form of the drug, MDMA.

Police said the drugs are known locally as "magic" or "pink

A 26-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of supplying

Class A drugs and remains in custody for questioning.

A beach in Majorca was closed yesterday after a blue shark sent

The shark - thought to be about eight foot long -

was spotted near swimmers close to Magaluf.

Photos appear to show the shark swimming towards a group of people.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

Lots of messages about her knee replacements. I have a constant

burning pain and I can't have pressure on my stomach, worse than

having a Caesarean section. And Pete is 49. He had the operation when he

was 34. His problems in that area have affected his bowel severely. He

is still having extensive tests next goes back to see the bowel surgeon

in the middle of July. Our exclusive film on the way that measures being

used to repair hernias is on in the next few minutes. Please get in

touch, especially if you have had and her -- have had a hernia

operation using mesh. Please get in touch. Now the sport. A very public

falling out between two Formula One world champions.

It was the day the 2017 Formula One season turned nasty.

Lewis Hamilton describing his rival for the title, Sebastian Vettel,

a disgrace after they collided at the Azerbaijan Grand

Red Bull's Daniel Ricciardo won in Baku

but that was far from the post-race talking point.

It was the acrimony between Hamilton and Vettel,

It was the acrimony the result of a coming

Blame was attached to Ferrari driver Vettel, who was given a 10-second

But Hamilton was later forced into an unscheduled pit-stop,

ending his hopes of finishing ahead of Vettel who extended his

lead in the drivers' championship to 14 points.

Victoria, still plenty of work for Hamilton to do

And what about the two drivers? Sebastian Vettel was found guilty of

dangerous driving but he thought Lewis Hamilton was deliberately

slowing down or brake testing him. Lewis Hamilton denied that and was

ready to pursue the matter further with his main challenger for the

title. Well, if he wants to prove that he is a man, we should do it

out of the car, face to face. Driving dangerously in anyway can

put drivers at risk. Lots of people were going slow, going fast and it

could have been much worse. Imagine all the young kids watching Formula

One today and see that kind of behaviour from a world champion, you

know? Not the best examples set by either driver after that incident

but I would imagine that the intensifying of the rivalry between

the two protagonists will do Formula One no harm. And much happier scenes

from the world of tennis? Yes, away from squabbling racing car drivers,

story that epitomises the feel-good factor that sport can so often

provide. You may remember that Petra Kvitova was stabbed in the hand by

an intruder at her home. Just six months later, and in just a second

tournament since what looked to be a career ending injury, she capped a

remarkable comeback by winning in Birmingham. Patrick Kvitova, as you

can understand, was absolutely thrilled by the success will stop

she described her victory over Ashley Bhatia something very

special, like a dream or fairy tale. She might be a good bet for

Wimbledon now. I will be back with more at 9:30am including verbal

jousting between the coaches of the Lions and the All Blacks. Thank you.

Two months ago this programme exposed the scandal surrounding

We revealed that hundreds of women who have experienced severe

discomfort since undergoing the surgery including

inability to walk unaided, work or have sex, are currently

After our report aired, many of you got in touch to say

similar surgical synthetic mesh is also causing you chronic pain,

but this time after it was used to treat hernias.

Surgeons have told us NHS England is using mesh too often to treat

hernias and want other techniques to be considered, but NHS England

say it is its recommended method and the most widely used technique.

Our reporter Anna Collinson has this exclusive investigation.

I really just want this material out of my

body now, and I will fight to until end to make that happen.

Doctors say one in ten of us will develop a hernia.

It doesn't matter how old you are, what sex you are, or how

You can be a rapper, like Professor Green.

When a patient comes to see me and says, "I

think I've got a hernia," what they're describing

is a bulge, classically in the groin.

And what that bulge is is a protrusion or pushing out of

The best way to actually fix the hernia is surgery.

Nowadays what we use is a material which is

synthetic, called Prolene, in the form of a mesh.

NHS England says a mesh repair is its recommended

method when treating a hernia, and it's the most

It can be done in two ways - open surgery, where

the surgeon makes one cut into the groin, or keyhole

surgery, where a camera and surgical instruments are inserted through

several holes close to the belly button.

The surgeon then pushes any bulging tissue back into the abdomen

As you can see, it's very pliable, it's very easy to lie flat

Also you can see it's very, very thin, and quite soft.

Collagen, tissue and sometimes even nerves

The once-weak spot strengthens as the body grows into it,

but it also makes the mesh difficult and sometimes dangerous to remove.

The NHS carried out more than 60,000 groin hernia repairs in England

What happens if something goes wrong?

Helen Ablett had a groin hernia repair in 1998.

She was told if she ignored it it could get bigger,

and she also risked having a strangulated hernia,

A few years ago, Helen started feeling pain and has spent most

It wasn't until she saw our recent reports on the scandal surrounding

vaginal mesh implants that something clicked.

I went to see my GP after I had my hysterectomy and I said that

He looked at me square in the face and said, "Claire,

we've had you out on an operating table, there is nothing

And I phoned my husband and I said...

"I can't live any more, I can't go through all this."

I actually do think, I remember leaving the doctors,

The same material, the same lack of acceptance

Helen's had colonoscopies and countless scans,

Her GP's called her pain a conundrum, but she and her husband

It feels like something is either moving or loose

inside me and is pulling, when I stand and when I walk,

is pulling on it, and whether it's moved or it's attached itself,

I can feel, it feels like a foreign body inside me.

It was just right in my groin, right down the back of my thigh

Helen sent us an e-mail telling us her story,

We've heard from lots of people who've had hernia mesh operations

They came from across the UK, varied in age and gender,

They say they were never warned about the risks of chronic pain.

They claim they've been in pain for years and some

They say they've had many scans and tests,

They also claim GPs mainly only offer pain relief,

And doctors have apparently repeatedly told them

Hernias are extremely common, and so is the hernia mesh technique.

Clinical studies suggest around 10% to 15% of groin hernia patients

will experience chronic pain as a result of the repair,

One major study claims it could be as high as 50%.

Supporters, though, say it's a strong repair, infection is rare,

and it's quick and easy for surgeons to learn and replicate.

It may not be just the mesh that's causing the problem, but the fact

that they've had an open surgery and there's a lot of scar tissue

around these nerves that have caused the pain.

It is true it could be the mesh, I'm in no doubt that that may be

Absolutely, we don't know, and I don't think anybody,

hand on heart, can say whether it's in fact the mesh or not the mesh.

I used to play all sorts of sports, from racquet sports,

tennis, squash, badminton, I used to play football,

used to do quite a lot of gym work, circuits.

There was a point where I was training for a marathon.

It's quite frustrating to be sat here.

This is a chair, isn't it, I suppose, for me now.

Martin Kinsey had a groin hernia mesh repair in 1999

For a long time he was fine, but then he started

The 39-year-old says he now feels like he is 90.

It is seriously painful, it's as if I've been

My worst day is getting up and feeling twice my age and not

being able to put my underwear and socks on, and having to spend

I've had that many tests throughout the last six years,

they've ruled out pretty much everything that this could possibly

be, other than pursuing the mesh complications.

There is a Canadian hospital which is world famous - well,

The Shouldice Hernia Centre says it has nearly a 100% success rate,

and one of its surgeons has told this programme they only use mesh

Instead, they prefer a different technique.

The Shouldice hernia repair uses the abdominal wall, which is split

Once the surgeon has placed a bulge of tissue or bowel back

inside the patient's body, they will then overlap

and secure each layer, like buttoning a coat.

Its supporters say it naturally strengthens the abdominal wall,

but NHS England says this style of repair has been hard

The one thing they all seem to agree on is the Shouldice

The problem is, you have to be very skilled to do it.

Sue and Peter Jones have been married for nearly four decades.

They are part of an ever-shrinking group of surgeons who can do

The pair retired last summer, but spent much of their careers removing

Time and time again they met people from across the UK who had not been

warned about the risk of life-altering and long-lasting pain.

Patients that have come to us with chronic pain, said they've got

friends at work with the same problem.

One guy, as so many do, ended up in a pain clinic and said

on his first visit the waiting room at the pain clinic was full

of patients exclusively who'd had operations to repair their groin

At least half of all patients who have a mesh repair

will have a smooth recovery and never have any problems.

But in our view the risks of a poor outcome are so bad that I wouldn't

The Shouldice technique relies on a surgeon's skill,

which companies can't really make money from.

They can, however, make money from selling mesh.

Peter and Sue are convinced that is why the synthetic material dominates

The couple want NHS England to teach more surgeons the mesh-free method

The NHS being strapped for cash, that's another indication to do

Some surgeons say that the Shouldice technique is too difficult

But once you've learned it, it's like riding a bike.

Do you think the NHS does too many hernia mesh repairs?

If enough people got together and said, "We are suffering in this

pain and we were not told about it," that could seriously put a dent

on the operation of a mesh repair for groin hernia.

The Shouldice technique doesn't hold all the answers, either.

For starters, it can only be used on a hernia which is in the groin.

Chances are, the mesh that was used for your hernia

Some surgeons say it's very light and flexible and durable.

Leila Hackett was told she had an umbilical hernia in 2013,

six months after she gave birth to her daughter.

Surgeons placed a large piece of mesh near her belly

I could feel the whole thing, I could feel exactly where it was.

It was across there and it just, it started out being agony,

Obviously it didn't carry on being like that, but it

Leila told her GP about the pain many times, but was told

While studies show around one in ten groin hernia patients

will experience chronic pain following a repair, surgeons say

more research is needed for less common types.

There is, though, plenty of anecdotal evidence

It was like somebody scratching you from inside all the time.

All the time, not being able to get clear of this horrible feeling.

Eventually I ended up being ambulanced to A

because the pain got so agonising I was just screaming on all fours.

Leila's bowl had twisted after the mesh became stuck

Surgeons spent four hours picking the material out.

And he said, "Well, it turns out you didn't have a hernia,

you just had this separation of muscles, so we haven't had

And I can tell you now, I knew there wasn't a mesh

before they told me that, because I could just tell,

Many surgeons would argue that there's no scientific evidence

They're not going to achieve any scientific evidence about this

unless they take those of us who've had these operations seriously,

Because at the moment, they're not, they're pooh-poohing people,

and of course there's no evidence if you don't look for it!

Neither Leila, Helen or Martin have a record of which company

Martin has even paid to view his medical records

I've spoken to some surgeons who've told me that the hernia industry

is dominated by companies who produce mesh, and the reason

What do you think about that? Is that true?

Well, as a surgeon, I don't get involved in financial gain

My purpose is to do the best thing for every patient.

Now, of course, the companies that produce meshes are businesses,

and they're in the business of trying to make money.

However, a lot of these companies that produce meshes are competing

with each other to try and produce meshes that are better and better,

because they know that we have very good principles and we will not use

I encourage patients to persist and say, "I'd

like to see a specialist, I'd like some treatment,"

and treatment is out there, there are specialists who will see

these patients, be very considerate, patient,

Although at least one in ten groin hernia mesh repair patients

will experience chronic pain, NHS England have told this programme

the technique has been undertaken extensively and successfully

for several decades and no significant level

The Royal College of Surgeons says while any poor outcomes

are regrettable, mesh implants are the most effective way

In a statement they say the risk of infection is rare,

but they do not reference the risk of chronic pain.

For years, Martin has been suffering.

He was unaware there were people across the country who have similar

stories to him, and that one even lived nearby.

I've had an operation really I didn't need, and, you know,

Everything, pretty much by the sounds of things, that you've had.

I've had an ultrasound as well, they've tested my kidneys, my liver.

I've been tested for Crohn's, lupus, coeliac...

I naively assumed, when I first realised what it was,

Yes, it's several operations, apparently.

Supporters of mesh say it's improving all the time

and the synthetic material is here to stay.

But some surgeons claim hernias need to be taken more seriously.

They want a mesh-free repair to be widely available on the NHS,

and they want dedicated teams of surgeons to do the operations

In America, there are currently thousands of hernia mesh

It's thought it won't be long before something similar happens here.

But, for Helen, just knowing she's no longer

on her own is enough comfort for now.

Yes, meeting you has been a complete revelation.

It's helped confirm everything that I knew

I will fight tooth-and-nail to get what I'm entitled to.

I can't remove it, they've got to take it out.

He says that the mesh itself is infected and they will have to

remove it. It has been a nightmare. Jan said she had a hernia repair

semis ago and has had serious bowel problems but you never connected the

two until today. And Alex has said that he has been suffering chronic

pain for seven years since so-called hernia repair and the surgeons are

just passing him to each other. Steve says: I had mesh put in for a

double hernia in October and I have had nothing but pain in my

right-sided since. I am still going to hospital now. Bill and a few

others have said they had hernia mesh repair years ago and have touch

wood not had any problems. After ten o'clock we will hear from surgeons

who support the use of mesh. If you want to watch our original

film on vaginal mesh you can find it on our programme page:

bbc.co.uk/victoria. We talk to one resident who has been

ordered by her counsel to leave her flat in north London after it failed

fire safety tests, but she is refusing to do so. And the man who

was sexually assaulted as a 14-year-old boy by two former BBC

Radio London tells us he has spoken out to try and encourage other

victims to come forward. -- two former BBC radio presenters. Now a

new summary. The Democratic Unionist leader,

Arlene Foster, has said she believes her party

is close to securing a deal with Downing Street,

which would see the DUP agree to support the minority

Conservative government. She's due to hold talks with

Theresa May in London this morning. Theresa May is seeking the backing

of the DUP's ten MPs after losing her majority

in the general election. Every one of the 60 tower blocks

which have had their cladding tested since the Grenfell disaster has

failed fire safety inspections. There are still more than 500 other

buildings nationwide Meanwhile, Labour's John McDonnell

has told an audience at a Glastonbury Festival event that

victims of the Grenfell Tower fire were murdered by

political decisions, blaming what he called the decision

to view housing as only Six police officers were injured

last night during a protest in East London about the death of a man last

week, six days after he'd Bricks were thrown

and bins set on fire The Independent Police

Complaints Commission has said a post-mortem examination

on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed that, contrary to some claims,

he had no spinal injuries caused Surgeons have told this

programme that NHS England hernias which leaves many patients

in chronic pain. NHS England said mesh implants had

been successfully used to treat The material is its recommended

method for treating the condition. It is used on tens of thousands

of patients every year. The use of mesh involves pushing

bulging tissue back into the abdomen and covering it with the material,

and can be delivered via open That is a summary of the latest

news. More at ten o'clock. Now the sport.

Lewis Hamilton has described his rival for the Formula One title,

Sebastian Vettel, as a disgrace after a collision between them

Vettel was punished for the incident but still finished ahead

of Hamilton, who he thought was to blame, and Vettel is 14 points clear

Acrimony too in New Zealand between Warren Gatland,

the Lions coach, and his opposite number

with the All Blacks, Steve Hansen.

Gatland claimed the home side deliberately targeted scrum-half

Conor Murray during the 1st test defeat.

Petra Kvitova looks to be in with a chance

title, despite suffering a career threatening injury six months ago.

She won just her seocnd tournament back -

Kvitova was hurt in a knife attack by an intruder

England have won their T20 series against South Africa.

It was winner takes all in Cardiff with England victorious by 19 runs

Dawid Malan was the hero on debut, scoring 78.

I have more on that in half an hour. Thank you.

Every single tower block that has been tested

since the fire at Grenfell Tower has failed fire safety tests.

But the total number that need to be tested because they have

external cladding is 600 and although the government says

100 could be tested every day, nearly two weeks after the fire

Testing a cladding system to see how it would perform in a real fire.

A scaled-down version of this test is

now being carried out on hundreds of cladding panels taken

The results so far have not been encouraging.

Of 60 samples tested, all 60 have failed,

although the government says the most suspect panels are likely

In total, there are plans to test up to 600

buildings in England over the next week.

Not all of the high rises affected so far have been named, but

we know they include towers in London, Plymouth, Manchester and

I am having a pop at you, in a funny kind of way.

What do they want me to do with my dog?

In Camden in North London, hundreds of

residents have been told they have to move out.

It is creating chaos and pandemonium.

We've all been happy living there for years, there

was a fire in the tower block a few years ago,

and the building did what

The Chalcot estate there was refurbished by the same

firm, Rydon, that carried out work on the Grenfell Tower last

More test results will come through over the coming days, though

questions about why panels the government says were unsafe were

wrapped around so many high rises, in some

cases for years, without the

In Camden alone it's left around 3000 residents without a home

after four tower blocks were evacuated by the council on Friday.

Some are staying with friends and relatives or in a hotel

while others are put up in emergency rescue centres.

us not to identify her because she fears making things

Also joining us is Labour MP and secretary of

on fire safety Jim Fitzpatrick who will hold a debate later today

And Luke Stubbs, the deputy leader of Portsmouth Council,

His borough has seen 272 flats affected

Linda, why aren't you leaving? I think this was a knee jerk reaction

by the council. It is way over the top. Suddenly they decide we are not

in a safe environment, which is crazy. We had a fire in 2012, after

the refurbishments, and the fire was contained. A horde had lived there

and the place. A blog with newspapers and it went up like a

bomb. -- somebody who awarded being lived there and the place was full

of newspapers. I actually am happy because the playground is quiet for

once! Are you saying that you are going to stay there come what May?

At some point with you move out for a bit while they get rid of the

cladding and make it safer? I will have to move at some point because

they have taken away the fob keys that they have put signs up on the

doors of people who are still in the flats to say that it is occupied and

this is how many people are here and so on. At some point I think I will

possibly be forced. But at the moment I don't wish to go. It is

total disruption of everybody's lives. And a single person like me,

they expect me to stay in a large hall with hundreds of people,

screaming kids, the lights on all night. There is no way that I will

get peace and quiet. It is impossible. I am no expert in

dealing with large groups of people moving in and out of properties but

what I would say is that the council could have dealt with this much

better. They could have done one block at the time and meantime, the

other blocks, that are apparently at risk of fire, at the moment they

have got fire wardens crawling all over the shop. They won't let us in

without a fire warden opening the door. And they have stopped people

coming into the block. Though a lot of people have got to go to other

accommodation, which is not very good. I fear now that I will not be

allowed into my block tonight. The key fob stage work. Have you been

told how long it will take to make the block safe? I haven't been told

anything. They could provide a fire blanket for each flat. Each flat has

got a fire alarm anyway. There are so many questions to be asked. We

had booked an interview with the housing minister but he told us this

morning that he couldn't do it. Jim Fitzpatrick, chair of the all-party

group on fire safety, with a debate later today. What tests is the

cladding being subjected to? Do you know? Not exactly. We are hoping

that the government might volunteer that information later. The tests

are set by the building research Establishment, and they are well

documented. Clearly they know what standards the fire resistance should

be at the cladding is failing that. Do you take from this that it was

unsafe when the cladding was put up or at the time it was put up it was

deemed safe? I don't know the answer to that. It is a question that has

got to be asked of the contractors, the building managers, the

inspectors, the person who signed it off, the council, and ultimately

back to government about what specification under the building

regulations is laid down as appropriate for these buildings.

These are questions which nobody has, as far as I can make out,

nobody has got the answer to so far. Luke from Portsmouth Council, 242

flats in your council area have been affected but not evacuated. What is

going on? We have worked with the fire brigade on this and we have

taken advice from them. We have been advised that the building is safe to

occupy so it will remain in use. We have already started removing some

of the cladding. We have taken it down from the bottom three floors of

one building. We are discussing with contract is about what the

opportunities are forgetting the rest of it down. To be clear, the

cladding is coming down but you have taken the decision that the people

who live there should remain in their homes? That is correct. The

advice that we have got is that the building is safe. But the cladding

is coming down? We are doing it as a precaution. Is the cladding safe or

not? The cladding is potentially a problem which is why we are moving

it but there are big differences between our buildings and Grenfell.

It is noticeable that London police have been saying that the

installation might be a bigger problem than the cladding in that

instance. Understood. John Fitzpatrick, John McDonnell said

yesterday that victims of the Grenfell Tower fire work murdered by

political decisions. Do you agree with him? I don't think that is an

appropriate comment. We have a public inquiry coming up. Why? We

have not got the answers about what exactly happened at Grenfell and

what caused it. That is what the public inquiry will be trying to

establish. It is very much a matter in the public interest to identify

as quickly as possible what went wrong and that is why we need to

know when the inquiry will be and who will chair it. And when we will

get finding for public safety. They are genuine public safety questions

that need to be answered and jumping to conclusions and pointing the

finger of blame at this point I think is somewhat premature. But

these are very serious issues and we do need answers. Should he withdraw

that comment? I am not one to tell John McDonnell what he should and

shouldn't say. Listening to the counsellor from Portsmouth, there

are many more aspects to these high-rise buildings other than the

cladding. As he says, the insulation. The fire specification

for the front doors. Compartmentalise Asian. The advice

given in terms of simple things like moving cars out of the car park, no

barbecues on balconies, making sure the fire alarm systems are working

in each flat. Different blocks have different levels of resilience and

it is down to the local authority and the local fire brigade to decide

whether buildings are safe to operate or not. The vast majority at

this point in time seemed to be saying don't panic, things are safe

in these buildings, but some of the buildings might be more compromised

than others. Linda, what do you think of John

McDonnell's comments that people were murdered by political

decisions? It's ridiculous to say that because if he casts his mind

back he will probably remember that it was Nick Raynsford and the Labour

Government who brought in the initiative for decent homes project.

He said over years. He said over years. So they shouldn't be blaming

Theresa May and her Government now and also because it's a Labour

council that allowed all these refurbishments to happen and as part

of the TA, for years and years and years, we went through snagging

listsmed we went through all the flats. We checked all the work that

the PFI were doing and we presented the snagging repairs that had to be

done and weren't done properly and they ignored usment and they signed

off the works without checking it properly. If they had done that then

we wouldn't be in the situation and that's why I and a lot of residents

are angry with Camden and with the past Labour Government. Don't blame

Theresa May now. This was a Labour initiative and it was an EU

directive to reduce greenhouse gases and reduce the amount of heating

lost by flats and houses all over the country as well as improve the

boilers. Jim Fitzpatrick how would you respond to what Linda said? The

public inquiry does need to identify exactly what happened and track back

what mistakes may have been made which is why I'm not entering the

blame game because it is a complex question. The most important thing

is making sure that in the wake of Grenfell people are we have now and

we can use the public inquiry. Pointing the finger of blame at this

point in time and looking at simple solutions is the wrong approach. We

need to make sure that people are protected in their homes now and we

need to work out what happened in Grenfell properly. Thank you very

much. Thank you very much. That debate is

in Parliament tonight. What happened to Edir Frederico Da

Costa, a young black man who died just days after he was stopped

by police in east London. His relatives allege he was beaten

by officers. Protests over his death

got ugly last night - six police officers were injured

and four people arrested. We'll be talking to someone

who was there yesterday. Some breaking news. The confidence

and supply deal between the Conservatives and the Democratic

Unionist Party is expected to be announced in the next couple of

hours. Theresa May will meet Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP at

Downing Street in about 40 minutes time.

We can talk to Conservative MP John Redwood and

I would like you to explain what confidence and supply means to our

audience, please? Well, it means that the coalition partner will

support us to get a Budget through so we can pay all the bills legally

and public expenditure can carry on and where Jeremy Corbyn to table a

motion of no confidence in the Government then they would support

us in seeing that off. The Government will have a majority for

the big votes in the House of Commons and they will want to

support us on Brexit, but it is not a full coalition agreement. So they

will not be ministers and influence Conservative policy, we will have

our separate identities on other issues. Will this deal make you the

nasty party again? No, of course not! As I just explained on a range

of issues particularly the social issues which people have in mind the

Conservative Party will still have its own views and won't change its

approach and there won't be a coalition deal on that kind of thing

to change policy. Will we find out how much it will cost? Will the

electorate find out how much the deal will cost? Of course, I suspect

there will be a package of extra economic support for Northern

Ireland and it will be reported to Parliament and we will need

Parliamentary approval in the usual way, but clearly, there will be

enough votes for that because the DUP are bound to vote for that and

the Conservatives will as well. Justified how, to prop up Theresa

May? No, it is nothing to do with propping up Theresa May. It is about

having stable Government... It is a lot to do with propping up Theresa

May as Prime Minister? No, it's about having stable Government for

the country when the country has chosen to give no party an overall

majority. I don't think the country wants us to go off and have another

election, they will say you have had two elections and a referendum, get

on and do some governing and make the best of the situation we've

created. That's a fair challenge and the independent justification for

some capital expenditure in Northern Ireland is after the troubles, and

given the fact that their economy is not as strong and as wealthy as say

the London and south-eastern economy, it is reasonable to give

them extra capital. Has John Redwood got a point point. People don't want

an election so this is the way forward? Well, the issue that wasn't

touched on in that conversation that you had with John is the Northern

Ireland Peace Process. It is clearly in the Northern Ireland agreement

that the British Government has to hold the ring. It has to be the

neutral party between the nationalist side and the unionist

side. Now... Is this not the right way forward? The wrong way forward.

By entering into a confidence and supply arrangement you have removed

the neutrality of the Government. What's better? Theresa May should

have tried to govern as a minority on a minority basis. I think by

going into this formal agreement with the DUP, you are in serious

danger of wrecking the Northern Ireland Peace Process and people's

lives are at stake here. I know people are talking about Westminster

and playing politics, but the Northern Ireland Peace Process is

one of the great achievements of recent times and I think it is now

in serious risk of being dislodged by this confidence in supply motion.

How do you respond? I don't think that's true. The Government wouldn't

do anything to jeopardise the talks that are continuing between the

different parties in Northern Ireland. The very act of having

this... Would you like me to answer? You know. The idea is that the

Government will still be a strong advocate of the parties in Northern

Ireland, talking through the issues they have got with each other so

that we can restore devolved Government in Northern Ireland. That

will remain the Government policy just as it was before suggestion of

this agreement and no Northern Ireland Secretary, I think in any

Government, would jeopardise that for the sake of some deal on some

vote going on in the House of Commons. It's not true. I just think

we have to look at the facts and where it clearly states that the

neutrality of the British Government is fundamental to the peace process

that neutrality is now blown out of the water. Arlene Foster is the most

powerful politician in the United Kingdom. And she, it is her, yes or

no, that will now dictate what this Government is doing. So, I think

that really we have been sold down the river. I think it would have

been far more sensible for Theresa May to just govern on a minority

basis, but it's a sign of the total way in which she has been

discredited and weakened by the general election. She is clinging on

to power by her fingertips. The man in charge of Brexit negotiations,

David Davis, said he can't be certain that Britain will secure a

daesmt are you shocked by that? No, that's right. We have always made it

very clear that we think we will get a deal and we think we can get a

good deal for them and for us because we actually have the same

interests although they keep that well concealed a lot of the time.

But we've also said you have to be able to walk away. You don't have a

negotiation if you're prepared to walk away. If all they do is come up

with big bills and impediments to our trade we would be better off not

having a deal. What is your own view, Mr Redwood about the status of

EU citizens and their rights in the future and who should be the sort of

arbiter of that? Should it be the European Court of Justice for

example? Well, once we're an independent country again then our

citizens should be under the control of the European Courts for the

issues arising where they're living in the European country, European

Union country and their citizens living in the UK should be under the

UK courts. That's what normally happens when you have independent

countries. I don't see why the EU finds that a difficult concept to

understand because they don't put the ECJ over citizens in America, of

course, they don't. Does that sound sensible? What we are seeing is the

fragile coalition on Europe in the Conservative Party is falling apart.

You have seen Philip Hammond making it clear that he wants to see a

softer version of Brexit and we assume that would mean some

jurisdiction for the European Court of Justice. So, I'm afraid that what

we have is very mixed messages coming from the Government at the

moment and so that's weak. And then on top of that, you've got the DUP

propping them. And a red line for the DUP is the softest possible

border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which means

really staying in the customs union which flies directly in the face of

John's position and many of his hardcore Brexiteers in the

Conservative Party. So it is chaos. Ates real mess. We couldn't possibly

be in a weaker position going into the most important negotiations in

post-war British history. Just one lie after lie. Mr Hammond support

the position that Mrs May set out on the ECJ and their role over where

people live. Stephen stood on a manifesto from the Labour Party

which said they would be leaving the single market and the customs union.

He may have disassociated himself with it, but the Labour Party

manifesto was that, for the good reason that the official Labour

position and the official Conservative position is we want to

have lots of trade arrangements that improve our trade with the rest of

the world and you cannot do that if you're in the customs union or the

single market. We don't need these lies from Labour. It is in

contradiction of the DUP's position. On the single market, I mean I agree

there is a debate going across Parliament on this and we're seeing

a lot of the more pragmatic sensible wing of the Conservative Party

coming to a position... Talk about your own party. There is a debate

within the Labour Party, I recognise that. My position is that this is

all about a transitional deal. There is no way that we're going to get

the details of the divorce from the EU done by March 2019. The

transition deal is there therefore pivotal in the negotiations. It

should be based on us moving into the European Economic Area. Do you

worry about a transitional deal or do you think we need that or do you

want the Brexit deal to be done in this two years? I don't think there

is any need to have a transitional deal if the EU gets on with it. At

the moment they don't seem to have a great sense of speed and typically

in EU negotiations which I used to do a lot of when I was minister,

they would leave everything to the last minute so we may be leaving

this until 2019, but it is in their interests to sort out the air routes

and the customs basis and those kind of things that you need once we're

independent and they know the deadline is March 2019 and it looks

like they want to leave it to nearer 2019. Get on with it so we can have

a friendly agreement sooner. It's not going to happen because Theresa

May called this general election to get a landslide to get a mandate for

her type of Brexit. That's not happening. We're becoming a laughing

stock in the European Union. All the cards are in their hands. You have

to have a transitional arrangement. So actually, I think we've got to

get real on this. A transition deal as Philip Hammond said is absolutely

critical. The transition deal should be based on us going into the

European Economic Area buys us time to negotiate the rest. We trade on

WTO trade with the rest of the world and we make a profit on that trade

whereas we're in deficit with the EU. What's wrong with the WTO basis

if they can't come up with anything better? It is in their interest to

come up with something better. Thank you very much. Thank you.

The latest news and sport in a moment. First, the weather.

These are our Weather Watcher pictures. This was sent in by Craig.

Blue skies across many other parts of the country. This sent in by Ash

and that's of Swansea. If you are just stepping out, it's not

particularly cold. In London, the current temperature is 18 Celsius.

As it is in Plymouth, Cardiff, looking at 17 Celsius, Birmingham 15

Celsius, Birmingham and Edinburgh both 13als and the temperature

continuing to rise. Temperatures today peaking probably in the

mid-20s in London. So what we have is low pressure drifting in from the

south-west. Later on, that will introduce some rain to Northern

Ireland initially, but high pressure is firmly in charge of our weather

for much of the day, for most of the UK which means a lot of settled

conditions, not much of a breeze and just one or two showers, not much

more than that, but it also does mean that the UV levels are high or

very high across many parts of the UK. Something to bear in mind if

you're out and about. And the pollen levels across England and Wales are

high. So, the forecast today, shows a lot of dry weather. Variable

amounts of cloud. Just the odd shower. Especially across northern

parts of Scotland and through the day as our low pressure comes in

from the south-west, the cloud in the west will build, turning the

sunshine hazier and introducing some more rain into Northern Ireland by

the time we get to the late afternoon period. Now as we head on

through the evening and overnight, some of this rain will be heavy and

persistent as it moves across Northern Ireland, into Scotland and

northern England and Wales, the heaviest looks like it will be

across Cumbria and Dumfries and Galloway.

And then that all extends north-east wards. You can see this long

trailing front and then we have got another area of low pressure coming

in tomorrow coming up from the near Continent. That will introduce

thundery downpours. We start off with the rain pushing out of

Northern Ireland, in across the rest of Scotland and northern England and

Wales and then our second band of thundery showers comes up from the

south. It won't be range all the time. There will be dry spells in

between, but we are looking at highs of 21 Celsius and still feeling

sticky in London. Perhaps the driest conditions will be in Northern

Ireland where we are looking at a mixture of bright spells, sunshine

and showers. Tuesday, and into Wednesday, all this rain gathers as

it continues to journey northwards across much of England and Wales and

it will continue fringing into Scotland and Northern Ireland as we

head during the course of Wednesday. The confidence and supply deal

between the DUP and the Conservative government is expected to be

announced in the next couple of hours.

Also on the programme: Every single tower block that's had its external

cladding tested so far has failed fire safety tests.

The key priority for us has got to be to keep

people safe and that is

why we are making sure this process works as quickly as possible.

Two months after we revealed 800 women were suing the NHS

for debilitating pain casued by vaginal mesh implants,

surgeons tell us that NHS England is using mesh to repair hernias

which also leaves many patients in chronic pain.

It is as though I have been stabbed with something hot. I don't want to

be eat and I don't want to venture out too far. It started out as fiery

burning agony. And after being sexually abused

by two former BBC radio presenters, A victim speaks out. People seem to

have a different attitude to man. Breaking news, Charles and Camilla

will visit Manchester Arena today to talk to staff who were first on the

scene of the bombing several weeks ago. We can talk to our reporter

Sarah Smith now. What do you know? This is about them going to meet the

first responders, the people on the scene in the moments and then the

hours after the incident unfolded. We have heard a bit about what they

will be doing today. They will be at the arena itself and meeting venue's

and security staff, and the medical teams who were there before anyone

else there. We sometimes forget them when we think about the emergency

services. They will be meeting British Transport Police, Greater

Manchester Police, the ambulance and Fire Services. And then they are off

to Manchester Town Hall. They are taking part in a Round Table

discussion with community leaders and young people to talk about the

impact it has had on them. And we saw the way the city seemed to come

together in the days and weeks following the attack. They will be

meeting medical staff from the eight hospitals involved in treating

patients. Thank you. Now the rest of the news with Joanna. The BBC has

been told the confidence and supply deal between the minority

Conservative government and the Democratic Unionists is expected to

be announced in the next couple of hours. The DUP leader Arlene Foster

is due to hold talks with the Prime Minister in Downing Street this

morning. Theresa May is seeking the backing of the DUP's ten MPs after

losing her majority in the general election.

Every single tower block which has had its cladding tested

since the Grenfell disaster has failed fire safety inspections.

There are still more than 500 other buildings nationwide that need to be

checked. Meanwhile John McDonnell has told an audience at Glastonbury

that victims of the Grenfell Tower fire were murdered by political

decisions, blaming the decision to view housing has only for financial

speculation. Six police officers were injured

last night during a protest in East London about the death of a man last

week, six days after he'd Bricks were thrown

and bins set on fire The Independent Police

Complaints Commission has said a post-mortem examination

on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed that, contrary to some claims,

he had no spinal injuries caused Surgeons have told this

programme that NHS England hernias which leaves many patients

in chronic pain. NHS England said mesh implants had

been successfully used to treat The material is its recommended

method for treating the condition. It is used on tens of thousands

of patients every year. The use of mesh involves pushing

bulging tissue back into the abdomen and covering it with the material,

and it can be delivered via open The doctors' union,

the British Medical Association, will claim today that years

of underinvestment have left the NHS failing too

many people, too often. The head of the BMA, Mark Porter,

will accuse ministers of failing to spend as much on the health

service as other European A beach in Majorca was closed

yesterday after a blue shark sent The shark - thought to be

about eight foot long - was spotted near swimmers

close to Magaluf. Photos appear to show the shark

swimming towards a group of people. That is a summary of the latest BBC

News. More at 10:30am. Thank you. This message from Elizabeth in

Derbyshire. She said she had a hernia repair

operation and her body seems to reject the match and the sharp edges

could be seen and felt just by looking at my abdomen. I had two

further operations to remove it. After the last one he said he still

couldn't get it all out. For years I have had discomfort because of the

remaining mesh. We will talk more about that in a moment. But first

the sport. Lewis Hamilton described rival

Sebastian Vettel's driving disgusting after the two clashed

in an incident packed The race included three safety cars

and lots of crashes. It was won by Red Bull's

Daniel Ricciardo. This

is the incident everyone is talking for hitting Hamilton's Mercedes

as they prepared for a re-start. Hamilton was ahead with 19 laps

to go, but his head rest came loose. He ended up fifth, behind Vettel

who's extended his championship lead If you want to prove that he is a

man, I think you should do it out of the car, face-to-face. Driving

dangerously weight in any way can put another driver at risk. It could

have been a lot worse. Imagine all the young kids watching Formula One

today and seeing that kind of behaviour from a world champion.

It's a big week for the British and Irish Lions.

They face the Hurricanes tomorrow before the must-win second test

Lions coach Warren Gatland criticised their opponents' tactics

after the first test defeat but All Blacks coach

Steve Hansen hit back live on New Zealand radio.

Predictable comments from Warren Gatland, isn't it? To say two weeks

ago we cheated and now this. It is disappointing because he is saying

we are going out to deliberately injure somebody and that is not the

case. We have never been like that and as a New Zealander I expect him

to know that it is not about intentionally trying to hurt

anybody. It is about playing hard and fair.

Petra Kvitova looks well prepared to challenge

for a third Wimbledon title, winning just her second

tournament since a career threatening hand injury.

Kvitova won the Aegon Classic in Birmingham

beating Australia's Ashleigh Barty in the final.

It's only six months since she was hurt in a knife attack

Wimbledon qualifying begins at Roehampton later,

and it features Marcus Willis who made such an impact at last

He faces the world number 146 Andrej Martin of Slovakia

Meanwhile there are four Brits in action at Eastbourne.

Kyle Edmund opens proceedings on Centre Court against USA's

Donald Young with British Number Two Heather Watson following later

in her match against Dominika Cibulkova.

She'll be followed by Cameron Norrie whilst wildcard Naomi Broady plays

And how about this from Jordan Spieth?

The world number six won his 10th PGA title in some style.

went down to a play-off at the Travelers Championship

champion, chipping in from the bunker to seal the title.

At 23, he's now the second youngest player after Tiger Woods to reach

Classy way to do it. That is all the sport for now. Thank you. Welcome to

the programme. It is nearly 10:10am. Surgeons have told this programme

that NHS England is using mesh to repair hernias which leaves many

patients in chronic pain. The concerns come after

we exclusively revealed in April that more than 800 women are taking

legal action against the NHS over One woman told us she was left

screaming on all fours NHS England say mesh implants had

been successfully used to treat Our reporter Anna Collinson

has been investigating. We brught you her full report

earlier and here's a short extract. The NHS carried out more than 60,000

groin repairs in England between 2000 and 2016. But what happens if

something goes wrong? Alan Abed had a groin hernia repair in 1998. A few

years ago she started feeling pain and has spent most of this year off

work sick. It feels like something is loose inside me and it is pulling

when I walk. Whether it has moved or it has detached itself, I can feel

it. It feels like a foreign body inside me. We have heard from a lot

of people who have had hernia mesh operations and now live with chronic

pain. They come from across the UK and they vary in age and gender but

some similarities are striking. They say they were never warned about the

risks of chronic pain. They claim they have been in pain for years and

some have problems walking. They say they have had many scans and tests

which have all come back clear. They also claimed that GPs mainly only

offer pain relief and some suggested psychiatric help. Doctors have

apparently repeatedly told them that mesh is not the cause. Martin had a

groin hernia mesh repair in 1999 after a bike accident. For a long

time he was fine but then he started getting abdominal pains. It is as if

I have been stabbed with something hot. I don't want to eat. I don't

want to venture out too far. My worst day is getting up and feeling

twice my age and not being able to put my own underwear and socks on.

Although at least one in ten groin hernia mesh patients will experience

chronic pain, NHS England have told this programme that the technique

has been undertaken extensively and successfully for several decades and

note significant level of concern has been raised. -- no significant

level. For years Martin has been suffering and he was not aware that

there are people across the country who had similar stories to him and

one even lived nearby. Hello. I am Helen. Nice to meet you. Take a

seat. I have had an operation that I didn't need. And six years worth of

investigation. Meeting new has been a complete revelation. It has helped

confirm everything that I knew inside but was beginning to doubt. I

will fight tooth and nail to get what I am entitled to. They have

done this to me. I can't remove it. They have got to take it out. We

began investigating hernia mesh is after so many of you contacted us to

tell us about your problem after our exclusive film on vagina or mesh.

My reality was fine for the first three years but then I began to have

what felt like very intense period pains that would go on for days and

weeks. I was referred back to my gynaecologist who said it must be

your womb. I had a full abdominal hysterectomy to try and rectify my

pain. And of course I still had it. So I lost my womb for no reason when

I was 39. What did you think it was them? I went to see my GP after my

hysterectomy and I said I was still in pain. He looked me square in the

face and he said we have had you on the operating table, there is

nothing there to see. You are depressed. Wow. How did that make

you feel? I got back in my car and I phoned my husband and I said I can't

live any more. I can't go through this. I am believing the doctors. I

think it is in my head. I didn't know where else to turn. Did you

have suicidal thoughts, can I ask? You did. Yes. I planned it. I mapped

it out. That was our film from a couple of months ago. If you have a

story you want us to look at, please email us. NHS England seems

disinterested in collecting follow on data about mesh implants and some

doctors are come pounding the problem by ignoring undiagnosed

internal pains. Raymond says, "I had this operation nearly three years

ago and it brought so much pain and misery to my life. Total denial from

the GP and the hospital doctors about mesh problems and I'm still in

pain." David says, "I had a groin hernia repair with mesh ten years

ago and I have had pain ever since. It feels like broken glass slash

barbed wire in my groin." John says, "I have a an operation since 2015

and I have been in pain, but the consultant said there was nothing

with the operation." Let's talk to Jackie Bullock who had

an incisional hernia Stratton Richey, had a groin hernia

repair a year earlier, but last year Kath Sansom is from the Sling

the Mesh Campaign. Krishna Moorthy is Chief of Surgery

and Consultant Surgeon at the British Hernia Centre

which pioneered the use With us a general surgeon who

carries out around four to six hernia repairs with mesh every week

for an NHS hospital in Leeds. Thank you very much for coming on the

programme. Nice to see you all. Jackie, tell us what your life was

like before your hernia operation? I had mine to repair the hernias that

had come through the operation. I used to enjoy fitness, looking after

my horse and doing everything normally people would do and now I

can't do any of that. I would love to go back to the gym to be able to

get back on my horse, to be able to muck out and to do normal things, go

shopping... Why can't you do those things anymore? It feels like there

is a piece of barbed wire pulling at you. When I go to stand up, it feels

like my inside are being ripped apart. I struggle to bend down. I

can't walk for periods of time. I struggle to walk upstairs because it

pulls on your stomach and you have to lift your legs to do it. It

leaves you in a mess. What about yourself? What was it like before

you had the mesh removed? Exactly the same. I was off work for six

months. It was very, very difficult. I came out of hospital and the pain

was phenomenal. I went back to the sujon and he said the mesh repair is

fine, just man up. So after a year, 18 months I went to a different

surgeon and he discussed the Shouldice method. It is a low grade

method and it is getting better every day. When I woke up from

surgery number two, that evening I walked to the pub. Surgery number

one, I couldn't get off the couch for six months. A big difference on

that. The mesh itself, I understand was in a perfect position, but

during the surgery, a stitch had been put around a nerve and pulled

it up. So it was being pulled all the time. No matter how much

physiotherapy and swimming walking, it was therefore going to release

that pain. Do you blame the mesh or that stitch put in by that surgeon

at that time? It is going to be part of it because the mesh I could feel

it, it was a solid mass. You could fill it digging in. If it was done

without the damage to the nerve, it maybe a different outcome. Because

there was a hole in the bowel and if you don't repair it, the bowel will

pop thrau and you will get a strange lated hernia. Was it that damage to

the nerve or not, who knows? We know the NHS England say this is the

recommended practise for hernia repair. You regularly carry out

these repairs using mesh. When you hear patients, not your patients,

describe the debilitating pain that they have been in, that they are in,

what do you think? With most operations, even hernia surgery

needs to be delivered by Specialists who are, you know, treat hernia

surgery as experts and you know, like any other operations, if it is

delivered by specialists the outcomes are very good. The British

hernia centre has been doing this for 25 years now and treated

thousands of patients with this technique with excellent outcomes

and the other thing is... Do you accept that, you two, do you think

we were the unlucky ones? I had it done privately by a specialist

surgeon in a specialist hospital. That's all he does. Whether it was

an error or the mesh and Jackie will be different. Mine was on the NHS.

I'm sure there are people out there who had successful hernia repairs

done using mesh, but there is a lot of us who haven't and that's, we

need help. Yes. The other issue is also about informed consent, you

know, patients need to be informed that there is this incident of

chronic groin pain and you know in my practise that's the one thing we

talk about a lot during the outpatient consultation is this

condition of chronic groin pain and how if it happens, in large number

of patients, it's a niggling pain. They come back and see me because

they want to be reassured because it is nothing more serious. Why is that

there? Because of the mesh? Because of the scar tissue? There are lots

of reasons. One of the reasons is probably because that area is very

rich in nerves and if a nerve gets trapped then you get neuro pattic

pain and that's probably one of the commonest causes for post hernia

groin pain. Before I bring in a surgeon, Kath some of the things we

are hearing today, sound very familiar to me, when we talked about

vaginal mesh implants a few weeks ago. If I can take you back to the

surgeon's skill. A lot of surgeons will aif you have a good surgeon,

you can have a good surgeon and still have a bad outcome with

chronic pain because the problem with the mesh implant, it is not

inert. What that means is, once that mesh is inserted, it can change.

Now, it can shrink and twist and degrade. So no amount of good

surgery can compensate for the fact that you're putting something into a

body. That's why we are getting scratching pains and you can get

allergic reactions. It is similar to the vaginal mesh implants. Do you

accept that? The actual, the nature of the mesh, what it is made of, can

be the problem once it's inserted whether for vaginal mesh implants or

a hernia repair? The cause of pain is multi- Victoria as my colleague

just said. It is a neuro pathic pain. With hernia repairs, open

operations, it is nerves in the groin can get injured whilst making

the incision, these nerves can also be irritated by the mesh. A good way

around this is increasingly being practised is to do the groin hernia

operations by different route and not fixing the mesh as one of your

interviewees pointed out. The pain is related to a nerve being trapped

by a stitch or a staple that's been used to fix the mesh. So putting the

mesh in without fixation and using a lightweight mesh. So that the

problems of the mesh itself are not protruding and poking and so on are

minimised. Stratton is here and would like a quick word with you.

It's right when you are doing any surgery, you will cause damage.

There will be post-operative repair. I went back after six months and I

was told to man up. There was no offer of a scan to see if there was

any damage in there. It was just said the mesh is fine. Go away and

get on with it. Which wasn't possible. The pain was still too

much. So, the follow-up is potentially not as good as perhaps

it should be. The surgery I'm sure done well, but the follow up and

we're talking about this earlier, of how you deal with the patient

post-operative, as well as preoperative and you talked about

telling us how much it could cause pain. When you go to see the doctor,

it's not a language you know and the doctor will give us all this

information and come flooding like a pebble on the beach and it is a lot

for a patient who has no medical knowledge to understand what does

chronic pain really mean. Yeah, I will get on with that, I will take

Nurofen and that may not be enough and if there is damage, Nurofen or

any other open yet is not going to help. I completely agree with you

and follow-up is paramount and it's also very important and I firmly

enshrine that in my practise is to counsel people about the pros and

cons about hernia operations and to emphasise chronic pain. Kath would

like to come in on this point. This point is so key about follow-up. You

are talking about follow-up, but in the real world, when anybody goes

back after they have a mesh implant operation. You get a quick

consultation, the surgeon doesn't take that much notice because they

think it will settle down awe feel you need to go away because you're

not taken seriously. Not only are you in pain, but that's compounded

by the fact that you are not really taken seriously. I don't believe

there is proper auditing of how a patient is after their mesh

operation. That goes for the first consultation a year down the line,

however long down the line I don't think patients feel in the real

world that they can keep going back to a surgeon because you are made

feel like you are annoying or man up or in the women's mesh you're made

to feel like you a menopausal silly woman. Go away. There is different

types of pain. When I woke up from the shouldice operation, it was a

different pain. Comments. "My wife had a hernia operation and she has

suffered chronic pain, she can not walk more than a few steps because

the pain is too intense and she is using a wheelchair. It is that bad

she says she doesn't want to be here anymore. The surgeon that performed

the repair refused to help and said mesh wasn't the problem." What

should, what is your advice as a surgeon? What should that patient

and husband do? What should they do? That patient should be managed by a

multidisciplinary team. What should they do now? They should go back and

see the surgeon, go back to the hospital. How make them listen? The

experience from so many people is, the first thing the surgeon says is,

"It can't possibly be the mesh." Well, one of the things is to make a

multidisciplinary approach. It is usually surgeons working with

radiologists and working with pain clinics. The surgeons aren't

offering scans. Pain clinics are nonexistent. They are denying the

level of pain. That's a really massive issue here. They are denying

the level of pain and they are denying the mesh has anything to do

with the pain. Therefore, you are made to feel go away or a nuisance

or going a bit mad. It is so very cruel. It is like any surgery.

Informed consent is so important. I don't want to go over old ground.

This person should go back to the surgeon and beg them to listen and

then say, "Please let me have a second opinion." Is that sensible.

Yes. I think it should be pointed out that serious pain after a hernia

repair operations is a well established and well documented

problem. I'm getting messages, sorry to interrupt, from people who had

this years ago, this operation. Here is another one, "Wow, this is how I

have been feeling for the past ten years. I have had all the

investigations and still been fobbed off. I have had two hernia repairs

and I have been left incapacitated. Your programme has given me comfort

in that I'm not alone." Kevin broub says, "I have had a mesh repair. I

had really intense burning in my groin like a blow torch. I wasn't

being listened. They implied it was all in my head." Julie says, "I had

a hernia mesh op in 2014, I am on medication for nerve pain. I find it

difficult to sit down and nauseous when I lie down. I thought I was the

only one in this situation until now." It is worth pointing out that

lots of people had exactly this and they have had really good outcomes.

Plenty of people e-mailing. So we need to make that point. Let me tell

you that a spokesperson for the Royal College of Surgeons says that

mesh implants are the most effective way to deal with a hernia.

The use of a mesh also ensures patients recover quickly and this

from NHS England, mesh repair is the recommended method of groin hernia

repair and it is the most widely used technique. With shouldice I

have movement in that area. It is an effective treatment option. It fixes

T but what nobody talks about is the quality of life after wafrds. There

is the vagina mesh implants, the risk is up to 42% of. That's a high

figure, but they conclude by saying, "This is an effective treatment

option." We are talking about the quality of life that goes alongside

it. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Thank you. Thank

you. I appreciate your time. A deal between the DUP

and the Conservatives is expected to be announced

within the next hour. The DUP leader, Arlene Foster,

is about to arrive at Downing Street It would see the party's 10 MPs

supporting her minority Conservative government on what's called

a confidence and supply basis. Our political correspondent

Chris Mason is here. Good morning. It is just worth

explaining what the confidence and supply deal means in practical

terms. Yes. What it means is something very different from our

only other recent experience of a major party failing to secure a

majority which was the coalition deal that we saw in 2010. The book

was written after that deal was signed called Five Days In May. By

Mike at a nation we are into 18 days in June and still no deal. -- by my

calculation. The Liberal Democrat and the Conservatives came into

government gather and sat around the Cabinet table together and it was

formal and it was signed on the dotted line and we all remember that

moment of lovey-dovey in the rose garden. It has taken much longer to

come to that arrangement this time, and secondly that arrangement...

Just keeping an eye on those gates to see if there is any movement.

Arlene Foster not quite ready to roll in as the leader of the DUP.

This confidence and supply agreement is a looser arrangement. In essence

it means that the DUP will agree to back the Conservatives on the very

big boats, votes of confidence and supply. That means money. Budget.

That is the essence of the deal that we expect to be formally announced

in the next couple of hours. The crucial bit will be how much detail

we get about what the DUP has managed to secure a return and how

willing they are to support the Conservative day in and day out as

well as just those big votes. What kind of things might Arlene Foster

have been negotiating to get for Northern Ireland in the last couple

of weeks? I suspect we can probably surmise that in one word which is

unfortunate. I am going to try to keep talking until she arrives! The

word is money. That is reasonable. If you are the biggest party in

Northern Ireland you would want to say to your voters that you are

getting something for this deal with the Conservatives. There has been

quite a lot of expectation among the Democratic Unionists, who are very

skilled negotiators because of the nature of Northern Ireland politics

and power sharing, which involves a lot of negotiation. Money for

Northern Ireland will be central. The tricky thing from the

perspective of the Conservatives in doing that, you would perfectly

understand why there would be clamouring from Wales and Scotland

saying, hang on, if you are shovelling dot in the direction of

Belfast, what about us? -- shovelling dosh. It is a fine

balance that Theresa May has got to strike, not overreaching what would

be seen to be acceptable in the rest of the UK. However without the

support of the DUP, she is a minority government and incredibly

vulnerable to losing votes in the House of Commons. To go back to your

earlier question about the difference between this deal and the

15 years ago, even if the DUP are willing to back the Conservatives on

big votes of confidence and supply, unlike with the Liberal Democrats

and the Conservatives, there was an expectation once that deal was

signed that there was a decent majority for the coalition, and

therefore it was unlikely to lose Commons votes, even with a

confidence and supply deal, there will still be pretty much every

week, sometimes more often than every week, nervous moments for the

Conservatives wear a big vote comes up, even a small boat, and they are

thinking where are the DUP? Are they even in Westminster? Can they rely

on them? The Chief Whip for the Conservatives, the guy in charge of

discipline and making sure that Conservative MPs vote in the way

Theresa May hopes, we saw him going into Downing Street and he has one

heck of a job coming up. Strictly on the Brexit votes as the Brexit

negotiations happen over the next couple of years. Can I just ask you

about the peace process? The Good Friday Agreement suggested that the

British government had to be neutral between nationalists and Democratic

Unionists, and many critics of this deal between the DUP and the Tories

say the government is no longer neutral. It cannot be an impartial

voice when it comes to negotiating in Northern Ireland because it is

now on the side of the DUP. Yes, that is a really tricky area

diplomatically for the Conservatives to tread. Yes, the Good Friday

Agreement obliges both the British government and the Irish government

to be neutral, impartial, in its outlook on politics in Northern

Ireland and the different political parties in Northern Ireland. We have

already seen expressions of reservation articulated by some on

the other side of the political divide in Northern Ireland from Sinn

Fein and also from the nationalist SDLP, who have said hang on. If you

are going to remain impartial, how can you be certain that is the case.

How can we be certain? If you are propped up in Westminster by the

DUP? James Brokenshire has done his best to make the argument that the

Conservatives will remain impartial in their dealings with northern

Irish specifics, but they will have this arrangement with the DUP at

Westminster. But there are sceptics who say that is turning a pretty

clear line into something that looks rather fuzzy and vague. And we have

seen others involved in the whole process of arranging the Good Friday

Agreement expressing their reservations about what it might

mean for the stability of northern Irish politics. This would be a big

deal whoever had won the general election, even if the party hat won

clearly with an overall majority. Politics in Northern Ireland is very

much in flux at the moment as we wait to see if there can be some

kind of deal to restart power-sharing, restart the Assembly

at Stormont. That old thing unravelling back at the beginning of

the year, if you remember, with the row over the renewable heating

scheme and the collapse of the local power-sharing arrangement there.

Elections in March and still no resolution to that. As you can tell,

I am waffling! We still haven't seen Arlene Foster and the gates are

closed. No sign of her. Diddy Factor, you have not been waffling

but you have been looking to your left a lot. -- to be fair. Don't

worry, we will see her because she will be right behind you but we do

appreciate your efforts! The gates are closed so it is not imminent

unfortunately. The minute we stop talking, she will roll up. And we

will be back with you as soon as that happens. Now the headlines with

Joanna. And we are prime to go back to Downing Street as soon as.

Every one of the 60 tower blocks which have had their cladding tested

since the Grenfell disaster has failed fire safety inspections.

There are still more than 500 other buildings nationwide

Meanwhile, Labour's John McDonnell has told an audience

at a Glastonbury Festival event that victims of the Grenfell Tower

fire were murdered by political decisions

blaming what he called the decision to view housing as only

Six police officers were injured last night during a protest in East

London about the death of a man last week, six days after he'd

Bricks were thrown and bins set on fire

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has said

a post-mortem examination on Edir Frederico Da Costa showed

that, contrary to some claims, he had no spinal injuries caused

And now back to Chris! As predicted, here they come. The leading lights

of the Democratic Unionist Party are heading up the street. I will get

out of the shot and we will shout questions in their direction. Deal

or no deal? Have you got one now? Why has it taken so long? Deal or no

deal, Mrs Foster? How much money have you held out for? What price

for DUP support? Is this the moment of you signing on the dotted line?

Deal or no deal? There you go. One of those classic absurd journalistic

moments where we shout questions, some more intelligent than others

and some rather inane, and we predictably get no answer whatsoever

but plenty of smiles on the steps of Downing Street. We think we will get

the details of the deal next half an hour or so but they were ten minutes

late so I am giving up on time predictions this morning. Fine.

Thank you. As soon as Theresa May and Arlene Foster of the DUP come

out of the front door, as they will at some point and say something

about whether there has been deal or no deal, then you will see it live

on the BBC News Channel. Next on the programme: A man who was sexually

assaulted as a 14-year-old boy by two former BBC radio presenters

tells us he is speaking out to help other victims come forward. Husband

and wife Tony and Julie Wadsworth were found guilty of encouraging six

boys between the ages of 11 and 15 to take part in sexual activity in

the 1990s. The couple presented on BBC Radio London WN and radio

Leicester. Our next guest has arrived. She is sitting opposite to

me and she is the first female county commissioner for

Leicestershire Scouts. Can I first apologise? She was a very naughty

Cub Scout, my Mrs. One of the victims has waived his right to

anonymity. You might find this upsetting. You may not want young

children to hear this. Darren Cunningham was 14 when the abuse

began. I googled the names of the people I had seen on the TV and I

had seen the pictures and it was them, the same couple. I went home

and I told my wife that they had been on the news. I said I don't

know whether to telephone the police because they have been charged with

offences in 1996. What happened to us was in 1992. I was wondering what

happened in four years in between? Did they stop? For a couple of years

I toyed with the idea of telling the police because I was getting married

in a month. My wife said do you want to bring this up four weeks before

the wedding? I gave it a few days and decided to call the police. I

dialled 101 and I spoke to someone on the phone and they got the CID

officer in charge of the case to ring me back. He asked me to come in

for an interview. I went in and gave a statement about what happened to

us. I think at the forefront of your mind you had not only what happened

to you but the fact that you have got an 11-year-old stepson. They

said the youngest victim was 11. I lived at my stepson, who is 11 soon,

and they are tiny. When it happened to us we were 14. Although it was