27/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

It's Tuesday, it's nine o'clock - I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

This morning: In an exclusive interview, the mother of murdered

soldier Lee Rigby tells this programme the Ministry of Defence

have failed to support her family and how recent terror attacks

I was so heartbroken, especially it being his anniversary and it being

children. There are so many parents who are left without their children

and will be feeling how we feel. We will be speaking live to Lyn

Rigby and Lee's sister. How is it possible that no one yet

knows whether the cladding used on Grenfell Towler was legal or not? It

is happening now. It is not happening enough -- quickly enough.

The testing is going on. We will try and find out.

And the legend that is Ronnie O'Sullivan. COMMENTATOR: I don't

believe this. APPLAUSE

What a fantastic maximum break! He will talk to us about his career,

politics, the novel he has written and anything else you fancy talking

to him about. If you have a question, get in touch.

Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news

And, as always, really keen to hear from you.

A little later in the programme we'll hear from a Sikh couple say

they were told they couldn't adopt a white child because

It's legal for adoption agencies to give preference to parents

from the same ethnic group - but government guidelines say

different racial backgrounds should not prevent a couple from adopting.

Really keen to hear your experience of inter racial

adoption this morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE,

and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

Hello and welcome to the programme. We're live until 11am.

Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news

The White House has accused the Syrian Government of preparing

for a chemical weapons attack - similar to one in April,

That attack led to an American missile strike

The US State Department said President Assad and his military

would 'pay a heavy price' if chemical weapons were used again.

Back in April, 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles were fired from two US navy

They were being targeted at a Syrian airbase that in western Homs

province that America said had launched a deadly

Several Syrian soldiers are thought to have died

at the airbase and President Assad denied any involvement.

It was the first direct US military action against forces commanded

Tonight, I ordered a targeted military strike on the airfield

in Syria from where the chemical attack was launched.

It was these images that provoked President Trump to act,

demonstrating a break in his foreign policy.

Previously, his administration had said it had little interest

But the use of a nerve agent believed to be

sarin or a substance like it, changed everything.

Over 80 people are thought to have died in the attack,

many of them children, in the rebel-held town

Now the White House has issued a statement, warning President Assad

that he and his military will pay a heavy price if they launch

Given President Trump's previous action, there is little doubt

more reaction to come on that story later in the programme.

Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

It's emerged that 700,000 medical documents, including

test results for cancer, were put in storage instead

A report by the National Audit Office says that more than 1,700 NHS

patients may have been harmed by the administrative blunder.

For every bit of correspondence, they were looking through it to see

They're letting the patient know and getting experts to look at it.

1700-odd cases they have identified potential harm.

For those cases, they are looking into it more deeply to find out

if there has been actual harm caused by the delay.

Downing Street and the Democratic Unionists have said their deal

to secure support for Theresa May's minority Conservative government

makes the restoration of power sharing in Northern Ireland more

The Prime Minister has been accused by Sinn Fein of jeopardising

the Good Friday peace agreement by promising the DUP

?1 billion of extra funding for Northern Ireland.

A deal to revive power sharing at the Stormont Assembly has

The mother of murdered soldier Lee Rigby has told this programme

the Ministry of Defence has failed to support her family.

Lyn Rigby says only her son's next of kin - his partner -

received help, and "the main charities didn't want to know".

Lee Rigby was killed outside Woolwich Barracks

in south-east London in May 2013, by Michael Adebolajo

She said the recent attacks in London and Manchester had

"brought everything back", but she had received no

contact from the MOD to check that they were OK.

A former senior intelligence adviser to the Government has warned

that MI5's estimate that there are 23,500 people

in the UK with links to violent extremism is just "the tip

Colonel Richard Kemp has told the BBC that -

despite warnings - the UK had failed to deal adequately

with the now-banned extremist network, Al-Muhajiroun.

The amount of public money the Queen receives to carry out her work

as Head of State is to increase next year by around eight

It will help to pay for repairs costing ?369 million being carried

out at Buckingham Palace over the next decade.

Our royal correspondent Nicholas Witchell reports.

Buckingham Palace announced last November that it

was setting in motion a huge refurbishment programme.

It will cost some ?369 million over ten years, and among other things,

it will replace wiring, pipework and boilers,

which in some cases haven't been touched for more

According to the Palace, they pose a potentially catastrophic

Now the Palace has given more details about how

Next year, the sovereign grant, the money the Palace receives

to fund the official duties of the Queen and to run

Buckingham Palace, will rise by just over 8% to ?82 million.

The refurbishment work on the Palace hasn't started yet.

Officials say they're still at the planning stage,

though it's hoped some preparatory work will begin later this summer.

The purpose, say officials, is to secure the future

of what they describe as a cherished national asset.

Critics say it's a waste of public money at a time of austerity.

One republican group claims royal funding will have risen

Every sample tested after the Grenfell Towler fire has failed.

Concerns over external cladding combined with issues surrounding

fire doors, gas pipes and insulation triggered the evacuation of five

tower blocks in candid in North London. We need to take a look

nationally at our building regulations and fire safety

measures. We have seen across the country people failing these tests

and we have to swiftly -- we acted swiftly in Camden. I have residents

who need somewhere to sleep tonight and I am trying to make sure they

are safe and secure. 50 years ago today, the world's

first cash machine was installed outside a branch of Barclays

in Enfield, London. Now there are 70-thousand in the UK,

and three million worldwide. The traditional 'hole

in the wall' has come a long way in half a century,

as Simon Gompertz reports. The first money from

a hole in the wall. You put in a voucher and a code

and you got ten ?1 notes. Reg Varney, a TV celebrity

of the time, had a go Less a cash machine

than a mini bank. On these ones, you can even

open a bank account. Signing your name, it

will take my photo as well just This one shows you if someone's

looking over your shoulder to steal your pin code,

reassurance you might want if they close your branch

to replace it with a machine. We're moving towards

a no bank branch era. We used to have about 20,000

bank branches in the UK Smart ATMs, as we're calling them,

in the future will provide 99% of all the services that people can

get from bank branches today. That is not a world everyone

will welcome but the technology unleashed back in the '60s

is still transforming the way The moment a 14-year-old girl

was caught after falling off a theme park ride in the US has been

captured on camera. Matthew Howard Senior

was at the Six Flags theme park in New York State with his daughter,

when he joined the The girl suffered no

serious injuries. The ride has been closed while

investigations are carried out. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30am. Ronnie O'Sullivan is here, and we

will be talking to him at around 9:30am. Are you happy to talk about

anything? Yes. I already have questions coming in. One viewer

says, when is he getting married? We haven't set a date yet. We're both

pretty happy with how things are. Sometime soon. Talk to you later.

Very much looking forward to that. If you have a question, send a

message. Sport now, and John is here. The grass court warm up

tournament for Wimbledon is under way, and there is a big-name

featuring this week at Eastbourne. Surprisingly, Novak Djokovic, who

doesn't usually play a grass court tournament and is doing so for the

first time in seven years. It shows how far he has fallen. He is world

number four. He plays at Eastbourne today and he is one of -- he is the

only top 15 player who is playing there at the moment. He is a big

draw. He is desperate to find form. He held all four majors as he headed

into Wimbledon last year, and this year he holds none. He has split

with his coaching team. His new Spanish coach is something of a

guru. Andy Murray is working with... It will be interesting to see how he

gets on. John McEnroe says that the amount of time that they spent

together is not long enough to have the desired effect. We will see when

Wimbledon starts next week. What about John McEnroe's comments

about Serena Williams? Interesting - he was asked whether

or not she would go down as one of the all-time greats, if not the

greatest player, irrelevant of gender, in tennis. In response, he

said that were Serena Williams to be playing on the men's tour, she would

be ranked just out the tops just might just -- just outside the top

700. She has 23 grand slam titles to her name, 35 years old, a couple of

months away from giving birth. Interesting that he would choose to

say this when she is not playing at the moment. In response, Serena

Williams said: A strong response from Serena

Williams. As well as being very polite. When

we get back to the football season, there could be some changes coming

in regarding safe standing, couldn't the?

Yes, Shrewsbury Town are seeking to become the first all-seater club to

apply for safe standing. They want a space where around 400 spectators

will be able to stand safely. Remember, standing was abolished

back in 1990 following the Hillsborough disaster, but there

have been moves afoot and Premier league clubs have asked about safe

standing. Celtic have done it and have safe standing for over 2000

supporters. A deal has been struck to try to try this out. Not only

does it improve the atmosphere, as more people are encouraged to sing

and get behind the team, but I think it is a safer environment. Our

safety officer has been to Celtic to see how it works and was very

pleased with how it works. I think it is only a matter of time before

more clubs get into the safe standing. Ryan Caldwell there. The

club should find out in the coming weeks whether that has been granted.

More from John throughout the morning.

In an exclusive interview the mother of murdered soldier Lee Rigby tells

this programme the Ministry of Defence have failed

Lyn Rigby says only her son's next of kin - his partner -

received help, and "the main charities didn't want to know".

She says the recent terror attacks in London and Manchester have

"brought everything back" of the horror of her son's murder.

The Manchester attack, in which 22 people were killed

by a suicide bomber, happened on the fourth anniversary

Lee, a soldier, had been walking near to his barracks in South London

when he was brutally attacked and murdered by two extremists.

It was an attack that shocked the nation.

After the death of their son, Lyn and Ian, Lee's step-father set

They're now in the process of renovating a house

on the grounds of a country estate in Staffordshire which will be

a retreat for the families of soldiers who are killed

We'll be hearing from Lyn in a moment,

but first our reporter Dan Clark-Neal went and had

You've got the sound of water, you know,

On 22nd May, 2013, a British soldier was attacked

and killed by extremists on the streets of London.

His name was Lee Rigby. He was 25.

Four years on, Lee Rigby's mum Lynn runs a charity set up

The Lee Rigby Foundation has been given this house on the grounds

Lee Rigby House will provide an escape for families whose loved

ones have been killed while serving their country.

Lynn says she wants to offer more support for the families of bereaved

soldiers because of the lack of support on offer for her own

We have a few of the veterans working on it at the minute.

Military veterans and friends have been giving up their spare time

So how much of a help have the veterans been?

They're just trying to give something back I think.

Lee Rigby House will have the space for two families to stay at the same

time and there are plans to open another house for veterans too.

What would it have meant for you to have had

somewhere like this to come after what happened with Lee?

It would have meant the world really.

We had so much press, media, you know, outside the door

We couldn't grieve together as a family.

None of the charities really wanted to get involved with us and get us

away to somewhere quiet where we can grieve as a family together.

There's a lot of parents and siblings out there that

are going through the same as us that are struggling.

We are all ex-vets and we were in the exact same battalion as Lee.

I'm in the Regimental Association and that's how it all came about.

They were asking would anyone like to volunteer and I thought,

why not, because it's a brotherhood at the end of the day and we decided

yes, I'll try and do what I can when I can.

How would you describe Lyn as a person and her

She's fantastic. The way she's coped.

When we first started it seemed like nothing was getting done

but she just thought, I think it will get there,

The bereaved families will also have full use

Lee wouldn't want me to sit at home, you know, crying gets

Lee wouldn't want me to sit at home, you know, crying getting

He always said he wanted to be famous.

I'll be so proud and I hope Lee will be proud up

I'm sure he will be Lyn, I really am.

You all right? What are you thinking?

It's just losing Lee, isn't it, you know.

I think the reality sets in that he's not actually

going to come back, you know, we're doing this for Lee

to help the vulnerable and those who need it.

Because we miss him so much every single day.

On the fourth anniversary of Lee's death, terror struck again.

This time it was Manchester where Lyn and her family live.

We'd been to the grave, set balloons off, we went for a meal

and we sat at home and were having a drink to celebrate Lee's life.

My daughter Courtney came and told us that there'd been a bombing

in Manchester and I just fell on to the settee.

Especially it being on Lee's anniversary and it being children,

you know, there is so mnay parents that are left now

without their children and are feeling how

we feel and having to go through what we have been through.

All I can do is send our sincere condolences to all the families

and all the victims and hope they have a speedy recovery.

I can't wait to get the house open now.

I want to get them families in here and feel how I feel

Once it's open and I can actually see people using

the Lee Rigby House, you know, that will be my dream,

Lyn Rigby is here with one of Lee's sister's, 16-year-old Courtney,

Good morning to you both. I will read this straightaway. This is from

Julie who was watching the film. "It is fabulous that the Lee Rigby

retreat is happening. What a fantastic memorial to him." So there

is real support out there which is amazing. I think many people will be

surprised to hear you say you don't feel you have had the support from

the Ministry of Defence? No, we never got the support. We were

classed as a non dependant family of Lee's so we weren't classed as Lee's

family. The next of kin get looked after. They get the support and

everything else. There is not only us there, there is a lot of military

bereaved families and the siblings, you know that don't receive the

help. What kind of support might you have been expecting? Well, you know,

I mean, it's just, make a phone call, making sure we're OK, you

know, counselling side of it, we never got the counselling, we got

that from actually Victim Support. And as like you say with the

bombings and everything and you know, the terror attacks that have

gone on, it's horrific and it just brings it all back, you know. So as

the mum and as the minister of Lee Rigby, none of you were offered

counselling via the Ministry of Defence? No. No. It was all done

through Victim Support. What do you think of that? I think it's pretty

disgusting. I mean there is a lot of mums and dads and the siblings that

are still out there, that have lost loved ones in Iraq, or Afghanistan

that still don't get the support and they still don't get counselling. I

mean we were lucky in a way because we did get a little bit of support

up to Lee's funeral. From the MoD? Yeah, but after the funeral, you

know, we got nothing. No phone calls after that. And how Courtney? OK.

OK. Yeah. I know when the Manchester terrorist attack happened, that was

on the fourth anniversary of Lee's killing. That had a real impact on

you all, didn't it? With me, it brought us straight back down to the

first day Lee had died. Did it? It's just all the horrific circumstances,

you know, it was children at the end of the day. The target was on

children. I've lost my child. So my heart just went out to all the other

parents and you know looking for their children and partners and it

was horrific, you know, it was a callus attack. People may not have

realised it was something like 12 or 13 hours before you realised that

your son was the victim of that... Yes, there is mums out there

appealing after the bombings for, you know, help finding their

children. Hoping that they were safe and we were in that situation as

well where it was 12 hours after Lee had been murdered before we even

found out it was actually Lee. Even though we knew deep down it was Lee,

you know, to be actually told and have that knock on the door that it

was Lee, you know, we just... It was horrific. I know you've made contact

and actually with one of the mums who lost a daughter, haven't you?

Charlotte Campbell who lost her daughter, Olivia in the Manchester

attack and in fact you were at her funeral? Yeah, we got, when I saw

Charlotte on TV, you know, pleading to help find her, daughter, my heart

just went for her. I could understand the situation she was in

then, you know, to when we was with Lee, you know, having to wait and it

was 12, 13 hours afterwards before she found out, you know that Olivia

had actually passed away and been killed and my heart just melted for

her. I just wanted to give her a hug just to say, "I'm here for you. I

know what you're going through." People don't know what you're going

through unless they have been through the same, you know. So on a

mutual friend knew Charlotte and Paul and I asked them to contact

them and we went up and met them. I took them some flowers and some

gifts for the children, well, they are not children, they are adults,

you know, just something to show that we know and the girls bought

something for their children and then she inviteds to the funeral. It

was heartbreaking to see another mother going through, you know, what

you're going through, having to lose a child. What did you think Courtney

when you heard about the Manchester attack? Because you might have been

at the arena. You were been there to gigs. A lot of those children were

at their first concert and knowing that 22 came out and it was their

last concert, it's terrible because I have left so many times without a

worry and they tried doing the same and it didn't happen. What impact

has that had on you in recent weeks? It has made me a lot more aware of

things and made me more wroried about going out and doing things

than I would have been because now I know there is the threat and it

could happen to anyone because that's what happened there.

Have you been able to have some counselling? I had it after Lee died

because I struggled with my anger a lot and I needed help with it

because I couldn't cope with it, but after that, I felt like after the

counselling she had given me ways that I could handle it myself so I

didn't necessarily need it anymore because even after those attacks I

knew how to handle it because she helped me with it. What about

financial support, again from the Ministry of Defence since Lee's

murder? We don't get any financial support from them and the MoD or

anybody. All we live on is my husband's wages which is not a lot,

you know, we still have to pay bills, but as I said again, the next

of kin gets the support, you know. I asked for a T-shirt and I never got

one because I wasn't next of kin. One of his T-shirts? Out of his

barracks, out of the room. No, we don't get any support. We do

struggle from day-to-day, you know, to food in the kids mouths, you

know, Ian is not on a great amount of money. That's your partner and

Lee's step dad? Yes. No, we don't get no support at all. We struggle

from day it day, don't we? Sometimes I won't eat, and I make sure that

the girls, and Ian eat, you know. People just don't realise, people

think because Lee was murdered, you know, we're millionaires and we have

got thousands in the bank and we've not got a penny. We're overdrawn

like everybody else, you know, we eat from day-to-day what we can.

It's a long, hard struggle and this is where I think they're letting us

down, you know, because we have to try and carry on with our lives and

it's struggling through it as well. And sometimes you just, you have the

beans on toast because there is not much else? The beans or toast or the

sandwiches for Sunday dinner the it is whatever we can get in, isn't it,

and what's left. Because Ian is on a monthly pay. He has been off the

last three weeks because of the Manchester bombings, it took its

toll on me again and on Ian, you know. Really? His health

deteriorated a bit so the doctor signed him off. He is on monthly pay

and he only got half his wage which went straight out on bills because

you still have to pay your rent. You have got to keep a roof over your

head, you know and at the end of the day you have got to borrow off

family to survive. Did you get a call from the MoD on

the, after the Manchester attacks which was the fourth anniversary of

Lee? No, we have had nothing. We really do think we would get a phone

call just to make sure that we were OK, you know, but no, we had no

contact with the MoD really for well, since after the funeral. Only

if we have ever phoned them for anything which is not very often.

I have a statement from the MoD. A spokesman said: We do our best to

support the families who have lost loved ones, offering guidance on

accessing help, as well as a range of support from individual

regiments, including financial aid. Our thoughts remain with the family

and friends of drummer Lee Rigby. We had an Army liaison officer for

three months after Lee died, but after the funeral, we have had no

support since. We don't get any financial support from anybody. What

do you think about that? I think they should support everyone instead

of just focusing on the next of kin. There are other people, not just the

family. We are still here and we were with him for all his life, so

to be left like we never knew him and weren't related... It's

heartbreaking. To be classed... To be told directly that we are not

lead's family... All the parents want is the respect that they were

our sons and daughters who have been lost. We have a lady, Carol Jones,

who has been fighting for The Victoria Cross, which the next of

kin get when they lose their partners in circumstances. Yet

again, the parents don't. And they don't cost much to make, it's

pennies, but why not give respect to the parents as well and offer us

something? We get a scroll with Lee's name on, that's all. A lot of

people will be taken aback. You may have seen reports that one of the

men responsible for your son's murder is now considered to be one

of the most dangerous men in a British jail and is said to be

radicalising inmates at Frankland prison in Durham. Prison staff say

they lack the resources to adequately monitor the situation.

What do you think of that? Not only has he already caused pain to

people, but now that he has been put away for it and didn't get it the

way he wanted it, he is trying to cause further pain to more people in

the country. It's not right. Let me read to messages from people

watching. Dan says, well done to Lee Rigby's family for setting up a

place for veterans and families to visit. Gone but not forgotten. RIP,

brother. Another viewer says, Lee Rigby will never be forgotten. Roger

Watts says: My 30-year-old son took his own life. Everyone must let

parents talk, cry and even scream about the loss of their child. If

the MoD gave Mrs Rigby Little help, that is unforgivable. Elliott says:

Very true that veterans are left by the wayside a lot, ending up

homeless and unable to maintain family and personal life. Another

says, someone start a fund for Lee Rigby's mum and family. She has had

no support. Simon says, how can the families of heroes be treated so

shabbily? I can assure you that this nation supports you. Lee Rigby will

never be forgotten. We have seen the film of the house, the retreat, that

you are offering for the relatives of those who lose someone serving

for their country. But I think you have bigger ambitions than that?

Mainly, the houses for the bereaved parents and siblings, because people

don't involve the siblings. -- the house is for. We have had veterans

down there because we want them involved, we want them to design it

how they want it laying out, and then the project is a massive one,

which again, is on the estate. The building has been empty for 12

years. The outside is fine, but the inside... We need their help. There

was a message went out this weekend and it went viral, and we have been

inundated with calls. It has been overwhelming and we can't thank

people enough. People to offer their support to help us do and finished

this for Lee as a legacy... We will get back to them all. We have had

over 4000 messages. We do thank them, but we do need their help.

Keep coming forward to help us get this going. And obviously, online

donations. If they go to the Lee Rigby Foundation, there is a donate

button there. We run on donated funds. I am quite excited. I am just

waiting for it to get opened now. And that will be a remarkable

achievement. Testament to you as a family, you know. A lasting legacy.

Thank you very much, both of you. Almost two weeks

on from the devastating fire at Grenfell Tower, how is it

possible that still no-one knows whether or not the cladding used

on the block is illegal or not? And we'll talk to snooker legend

Ronnie O'Sullivan about his career, politics and anything else

you want to talk about - if you've got a question for him -

do get in touch in the usual ways ? e-mail [email protected]

or text 61124. Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. The White House has accused the

Syrian Government are preparing for a chemical weapons attack similar to

one in April in which dozens of people died. That attack led to an

American missile strike against a Syrian air base. The State

Department said President Assad and his military would pay a heavy price

if chemical weapons were used again. It's emerged that 700,000 medical

documents, including test results for cancer,

were put in storage instead A report by the National Audit

Office says that more than 1,700 NHS patients may have been harmed

by the administrative blunder. Downing Street and the Democratic

Unionists have said their deal to secure support for Theresa May's

minority Conservative government makes the restoration of power

sharing in Northern Ireland more The Prime Minister has been accused

by Sinn Fein of jeopardising the Good Friday peace agreement

by promising the DUP ?1 billion of extra funding

for Northern Ireland. A deal to revive power sharing

at the Stormont Assembly has The mother of murdered soldier

Lee Rigby has told this programme the Ministry of Defence has failed

to support her family. Lyn Rigby says only her son's next

of kin - his partner - received help, and "the main

charities didn't want to know". Lee Rigby was killed

outside Woolwich Barracks in south-east London in May 2013,

by Michael Adebolajo She said the recent attacks

in London and Manchester had "brought everything back",

but she had received no contact from the MOD

to check that they were OK. I think it is pretty disgusting.

There are a lot of mums, dads and siblings out there to have lost

loved ones in Iraq or Afghanistan who still don't get the support, and

they still don't get counselling. We were lucky, in a way, because we got

a little support up to lead's funeral. After the funeral, we got

nothing. -- Lee's funeral. The moment a 14-year-old girl

was caught after falling off a theme park ride in the US has been

captured on camera. Matthew Howard Senior

was at the Six Flags theme park in New York State with his daughter,

when he joined the The girl suffered no

serious injuries. The ride has been closed while

investigations are carried out. Moore at ten o'clock. I cannot

believe that footage. Thank God she is all right! John is back and he

has the sport. The British and Irish lions continue their campaign. The

lions got a 23-14 lead. The warm up for Wimbledon continues

at Eastbourne today. Johanna Konta is in action. The former world

number one Novak Djokovic is also in action as he looks to try to build

form ahead of the third major of the year.

England's women's cricketers play Pakistan in the women's World Cup

today. They are strong favourites after winning their one-day series

last summer. And Shrewsbury Town have applied to

become the first English club to have safe standing at their stadium.

They intend to have it before the end of the upcoming season. That is

all for now. Back to you, Victoria. Next, an interview with one

of the greatest snooker COMMENTATOR: The Rocket, Ronnie

O'Sullivan! When he gets his cue out of the

case... He just made it look so easy, and

that is what the greats do. This speed was phenomenal. What a

fantastic maximum break that is! Ronnie O'Sullivan is delighted, and

the crowd is delighted. What did you make of your own performance? You

seemed to take a while to get going. You are laughing at yourself there.

It is crazy. What is going on? Sometimes, when you come off a

match, your emotions are high, and I am not the best at not saying what I

feel. You get letters in the post, which is infuriating, because it can

distract you from the tournament. I thought, rather than getting into

any more trouble, I might as well just cut the answer is down to one

word answers. I thought I was doing all right, then I got another letter

saying they would find me for using monosyllabic answers. -- they would

impose a fine on me. I just need some media training, I think! I will

just bring this political news to the audience, and I know you're

interested in politics. It is from Nicola Sturgeon, the first Minister

of Scotland, who says colon I will be seeking the agreement of the

Scottish Parliament to make a statement today on the way forward

for Scotland after the general election. That will no doubt be

about a second independence referendum for Scotland. To repeat,

Nicola Sturgeon has said in the last couple of minutes, I will seek the

agreement of the Scottish Parliament to make a statement later today on

the way forward for Scotland after the general election.

We will talk about the general election a bit later, that's all

right. Let's talk about your fantastic career, which is amazing.

Five world Championships. Others have won more, but everybody says

you are the best, the way you play, the flare the style, all the rest,

and you feel like you are playing more now than ever, is that right?

Yeah, I have always enjoyed playing, but I have always had a love- hate

relationship with the game. In the last five or six years I have

addressed the mental side rather than the playing side, and I think I

am able to handle the pressure better. A lot of the big

tournaments, it is pressure that can make you cave in sometimes. I am

better at handling that and my game is coming out more. I love playing

more than I have ever done, really. So, tell our audience a bit more

about how you are handling the pressure better, what sort of

techniques, what help, what insight. Is it growing up? Definitely not

that, because I was 35. I know what you are saying, but I think a lot of

it was stage fright with me. I would get so nervous before giving out, or

in the build-up to a big tournament, my behaviour would start changing

just because I was scared, basically. With the help of Steve

Peters, I have learned not to panic. He is a legendary psychiatrist who

has helped all sorts of sports people and has been on this

programme. He has allowed me to be in the right frame of mind to allow

my ability to come out. I think learning not to panic, even if it is

going really bad. Just not to be stuck in the moment and sometimes

look outside yourself. You can think, I am just having a bad day.

It is part of being a human being. I couldn't accept being a human I

wanted to be perfect all the time. Unfortunately, that can weigh you

down sometimes. We have been playing some of your

amazing snooker. Five minutes and how long? Five minutes 20. That was

in 1997. That was the first one. Do you think anyone will come close to

beating that? Probably not. But that's not one of the records I'm

more proud of really because it is just one frame and a lot of the

reasons why it was so quick was because I was so nervous and I tried

to get it over and done with quickly. Now I am a much more

confident player and I take my time more and I'm able to enjoy the

process. I have had better 147s, but not as quick. Everybody goes on

about the five minutes and 20 because it's so fast, but as a

professional, I have made a lot better 70 breaks really. There is a

question about the money. Players used to get 147 K for that break.

Now the prize is on average I think ?5,000. Yes. As you know you have

been criticised for not capitalising on the breaks and not trying to

score the maximum break because the same money isn't on offer? Yeah, I

mean, at the end of the day, I just kind of, it was, that's my little

mischievous side coming out in me. Some people protest by saying the

prize money should be higher. I thought I'd have a laugh and make a

146 instead of a 147. If they want a 147 they have got to up the prize

money to what it used. I'm having a laugh and the authorities look it

serious and I like to lighten things up. A viewer says, "Please can him

why he missed a maximum break. Why not give the money to charity?" I

did. You have missed a few that you could have got the money for? I have

had a couple of 146s, one of them, I could have got a 147, but I went for

the highest break prize. At the time when you're out there playing you're

not really thinking about charities and stuff, you're out there doing

your job and having fun. You get lost in the moment. On second

thoughts that would have been a good idea. Next time I get one, I will

have to give it all to charity. How important do you think it is for

somebody like you, high-profile, in the public eye, very successful to

talk about your mental health? Yeah, I think it's, I mean, I never looked

at it like that years ago. I wasn't very good at hiding being down. I

show it more than others. For me, it was easier to talk about it because

I felt it was written over my face, but there is a lot of people coming

out and speaking about it and I think it's good because a problem

shared is a problem halved and you're not on your own and I think

that sometimes when you do feel like you're on your own I can isolate

yourself. Just encouraging people to not be ashamed about it really. Was

Steve Peters able to help you manage the depression as well? In a way. I

always, I still maintain it that I had snooker depression. What does

that mean? If I didn't play good, it affected my well-being. So even

after a game I'd come off and I would be thinking about the game

rather than just relaxing and enjoying my time of a. It was just

consuming me night and day. I would wake up and think, "Am I going to

play well today?" That put me in a bad frame of mind. I have a lot less

bad days on the table so I'm happier. So, you know, I mean,

everybody knows what it is that is bugging them and I always knew it

was that, but everybody used to think I was going off me head and I

probably ain't, I probably do have an up and down type of behaviour,

but it's probably no worse than most of the general public really.

Is it true that in 2016, the World Snooker Championships, you smashed

up that dressing room? LAUGHTER

No, I didn't intentionally smash it up. I mean, not many people know,

but I was suffering, I had a massive workload, probably too much, I

worked myself to the bone and again, the pressure of the tournament was a

lot and straight after that match, I don't know if I mention it had to

anyone, but I was driven straight down to London. I was in a hospital

for four or five days because I was physically exhausted and on a low.

Was it a breakdown? I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think it was and they

kind of helped me out. I a few days in there and medication to try and

just get me going and it was touch and go whether I was going to play

in the second round match. One of the doctors said, "Try and take this

medication just to slow your mind down." It worked and I came out

there Friday. So it was nothing to do with anything else other than I

was feeling like, like you say, a breakdown. Right. But I do love a

breakdown. It is what spurs me on. What do you mean you love a

breakdown? I'm so used to dragging myself up from a low, I've done it

all my life. Right. I kind of sometimes I know that once I get to

the bottom I will fly up again. Right. A lot less so over the last

six years because I balanced it that out. That's the ideal of ups and

downs? I have been so low and I know I can come out of it so I don't

worry so much, but sometimes I feel yeah, it is like a chance to respond

in a way. It has always been the way with me. I don't worry about it

probably the way most people would. Did you take it out on the dressing

room because you were in the breakdown? I smshd my cue on the

walls. Is that needed repairing. My mate took it down to John Paris and

I said I couldn't go through with the whole, I think it was more

pressure as well. If it was an exhibition I would be been fine, but

the World Championships is so intense and I just felt like I

wasn't in a good place, you know. And that was it really. So, I have

been in worse places though. Have you? Yeah. Yeah. That was mild.

Well, that's interesting. You have got the experience and you know. You

have clearly, you wear your heart on your sleeve. You made that clear.

You're sort of comfortable with that. There are so many people who

are in the world of sport and other fields who will never say anything

controversial or you know or they have gone through the media training

because they don't want to have a bad headline. Why does that sort of

stuff not bother you? What being... Normal, honest, open, wearing your

heart on your sleeve? I don't think I'm actually hurting anybody. I

haven't really said anything bad. I mean, I don't think, I don't know,

some of the things I say I don't think are that bad. I think some

people are too precious about what you say and how it affects the sport

and this and that. I just think, I don't know, it is just heat of the

moment stuff. What about your criticism of the way snooker is run?

Is that heat of the moment? Do you believe the rules are too

prohibitive, restrictive? I probably came along at a time when snooker at

its prime and the 80s and 90s were the prime. Once the snooker

sponsorship went snooker never got back to where it was. I was spoilt

at how it was run and the money is not there that used to be in snooker

and they are doing their best, but in the back of your mind you can't

help but crave the days of when snooker was in its high and I'd love

to see it back there. And sometimes, you know, when you criticise an

event or a tournament, there is stuff they put in the player's

contract because they don't want people to know about that kind of

stuff. You feel like you can't say what you want to say, so you have to

kind of, it is a fine line, but if it got too bad then I probably would

just walk away and find something else to do because I don't really

need the aggravation, I love playing and I'm sure I'd find another place

to play snooker because I'm not bothered about winning anymore

turnments, I just enjoying playing. When you say if things got too bad

and I'd walk away. Give me a scenario. If I was forced into

saying stuff and having to toe the line too much, I would think, there

is not a long lasting relationship with me because I'm probably going

it to fall short so I'd probably have to find somewhere elsewhere I

could play and I just play for the fun of it and as long as there is a

few tournaments to motivate me to practise, that's enough for me. How

long will you go on playing for? Sometimes I think 50 would be a nice

number. How old are you now? 41. So another nine years. I hate to put

numbers and times on how long I'm going to play, but I think when I'm

50, you know, it's a nice number to maybe think about doing something

else. A viewer says, "Does he hope that

Ronnie junior will pick up the snooker cue?" I hope not. I don't

want him to play snooker. They make their own choices, I would rather he

play golf, tennis. Why? I think it is an outdoor sport. It is more

healthier. I think being in snooker halls can be a little bit, it's not

good for the skin tone! LAUGHTER

Rob, "Who would have been the best out of Ronnie, Hendry Davis?" John

Higgins or Alex. I think it is Alex. Hendry and followed by John Higgins.

If they were to have a match, it would be a flick of a coin. Hendry

was more aggressive, but I'd give them a good run for their money. How

many cues do you think you've used throughout your career? I probably

used about five accuse in my whole career. One cue I had more about 12

years, I think. So I have had a few since then. Martin, "Away from

snooker is there anything Ronnie wishes he could excel at but hasn't

or can't?" Not really. Everything, I always believe you can't be

brilliant at lots of things, you know, my focus has been on snooker.

I got into a run 13 or 14 years ago and I tried to get to county level.

I came short with that. I'm happy with what I've done and I am a

realist as well. So writing books, how does that fit into your life and

what motivates you? This is a novel. There are bits clearly based on your

life? Most of it is based on my life and the beauty being doing an AOB

and a novel I could play around with it a bit more. I've had great fun

doing that and you know obviously that's something I can do, you know,

it's just drawing on past experiences and stuff like that. So

yeah, out of all the things that I've done away from snooker doing

the books has been the best thing I've ever done. Really? Yeah. Yeah,

absolutely. I much prefer being away from the camera than in front of it.

So this is, you know, I'm able to just get a bit of solitude and do

some writing and share it with some friends and kind of do a bit of

research and stuff like that and that's something that I enjoy, you

know, so, you know, it has been great fun and I've loved doing it

and it's yeah, yeah it has been good.

Any plans to turn into a film, someone is asking? The rights of my

film have already been bought so that's out of my hands now. But

possibly if there is like a six book series on this and there is the

appetite from people and a lot of people have already read it said

they have loved it and there is another one coming out in November

called Double-kiss. There is a continuation of the we want to do a

series of books. I have had so much fun, I said let's keep it going, and

keep it open-ended, the story doesn't have to end. As long as

Frankie is around, there is always a story. There is always trouble. The

idea was to keep going with it, and I've had fun and I loved every

minute of it. Good. Let me read you this message from Alice Wright, "It

is so helpful to me when celebs like Ronnie talk about mental health. It

definitely makes me feel less alone. You are a star, Ronnie." John on

e-mail, "Thank you for being such a breath of fresh air to the sport and

carry on doing what you do." You joined the Labour Party this year

and backed Jeremy Corbyn. What did you think about the election result?

Yeah, I thought, it didn't go the way the Tories thought it would go.

Jeremy did a fantastic campaign. I am no professional on politics. I am

aware of what's going on around me though and how things affect people

and I just think at least there is a contest now. At least there is an

alternative for people and he tapped into the younger voter and I just

think he brought everything alive again, you know. Why do you think so

many people wrote him off including people in his own party? Because we

live in this thing like you have to have this, present yourself in a

certain way and this and that and I just think sometimes it is more

important you know the substance, what's the substance behind that

person? With the election campaign, people got to see that he was a real

decent, honourable and meant what he said sort of person and I think a

lot of people, you know, bought into that and they thought, you know

what, I can relate to him. He's talking to me, whereas some of these

other politicians they avoid the question and hide behind stuff like

Theresa May not wanting to do the debates. That shut her off from a

lot of people. He just kind of got a massive surge of people supporting

him really. A lot of people that probably wouldn't normally have

supported him, did support him, because they felt he was talking to

them. I know you've talked been Twitter

about the Grenfell Tower fire and the fact that clearly people need

answers. Yeah, I just, and at the ebbed of the day, you know, when you

have time to think, no one should really, you know, blaming someone

for a situation like this. It's really hard. I mean everyone is

getting on Theresa May's back. I mean, you know, we all feel awful

the stories we heard and when I said, it was one of the most

horrible things that I have ever seen in my life, the stories that

you hear from the families, what it must have been like for them to be

in there and to be hearing it on TV, it really was, it was awful. The

most awful stories and you know and I just think that sometimes, you

know, this should be a lesson to never let this happen again, you

know, and you know, it was just sort of like, whether it was the cladding

or not, but for the sake of whatever it was, the money difference, you

know to put a price on people's lives like that, you shouldn't

really. Lives matter and I just think it was a sad, sad, really

horrible thing to happen. Thank you for joining us. Ronnie's

book, Framed, is out now. Now, the weather.

Quite a wet day in prospect ahead. This picture from Fraser Brown looks

quite ominous. The rain is already here, steadily pouring over the last

few hours, progressing towards the north-east, so a lot of surface

water and spray on the roads if you are heading out. Through the cause

of the day, the rain will continue to get into the North of Scotland.

In northern England, it will get lighter, more patchy, and for

Northern Ireland, back into sunshine and showers, though some of the

showers will be heavy and thundery. Meanwhile, more rain coming across

the English Channel, through Southern California, into East

Anglia, the Midlands, and some of that will be thundery this

afternoon. In the South West, a weather front is producing showery

rain. In Wales, rain on the coast and dry inland. In Northern Ireland,

sunshine and showers, most of the thundery showers in the West. In

north-west Scotland, the rain pushes through, and the rain continues to

edge up towards the Northern Isles. The East coast of Scotland and the

North East coast of England will have showers. It will feel pretty

chilly for June. Temperatures around 14 Celsius. Overnight, the bands of

rain will merge, so it will be our wet night for England, Wales and

eventually Northern Ireland, and a few showers across the far north of

Scotland. Temperatures still in double figures in towns and cities.

Tomorrow, both areas of low pressure will merge, so we're looking at rain

again. Everything rotates around low pressure in an anticlockwise

direction, so the rain comes in a circular form, to put it crudely.

For England and Wales, the wind around that low pressure as well

will make it feel cold on the East Coast. For Scotland, something

brighter. There will be some sunshine come through. For the

Southeast, again, we could see dry weather, but temperatures down, and

a bit disappointing for this stage in June. On Thursday, low pressure

still dominates, so the rain will move right the way around it. Some

dry interludes, high temperatures of 21 Celsius. And then the rain starts

to pull away to the Southeast, high-pressure building behind, and

things will settle down for a time at least.

It's Tuesday, it's 10 o clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

The mother of murdered solider Lee Rigby tells us how the family

She says the Ministry of Defence has failed to support them-

both emotionally and financially in the aftermath of his death.

We were classed as a non-dependent family, so we were not classed as

Lee's family. There is not just us, there are a lot of other military

bereaved families and siblings that don't receive help.

You can see the full interview on our programme page.

We'll be looking at the cost of a "strong and stable

government" now that the deal between the Conservative party

And a Sikh couple tell us they were refused the right to adopt a child

because of their cultural heritage. First, the latest news with Joanna.

The White House has accused the Syrian Government of preparing for

a chemical weapons attack similar to one in April in which dozens of

That attack led to an American missile strike against a

The State Department said President Assad and

his military would pay a heavy price if chemical weapons were used again.

It's emerged that 700,000 medical documents, including

test results for cancer, were put in storage instead

A report by the National Audit Office says that more than 1,700 NHS

patients may have been harmed by the administrative blunder.

Downing Street and the Democratic Unionists have said their deal

to secure support for Theresa May's minority Conservative government

makes the restoration of power sharing in Northern Ireland more

The Prime Minister has been accused by Sinn Fein of jeopardising

the Good Friday peace agreement by promising the DUP

?1 billion of extra funding for Northern Ireland.

A deal to revive power sharing at the Stormont Assembly has

The mother of murdered soldier Lee Rigby has told this programme

the Ministry of Defence has failed to support her family.

Lyn Rigby says only her son's next of kin - his partner -

received help, and "the main charities didn't want to know".

Lee Rigby was killed outside Woolwich Barracks

in south-east London in May 2013, by Michael Adebolajo

She said the recent attacks in London and Manchester had

"brought everything back", but she had received no

contact from the MOD to check that they were OK.

There are a lot of mums, dads and siblings out there to have lost

loved ones in Iraq or Afghanistan who still don't get the support, and

We were lucky, in a way, because we got

a little support up to Lee's funeral.

The Queen is to receive an eight percent increase

It will rise to ?82 million from the next financial year.

The money will help pay for repairs at Buckingham Palace,

The moment a 14-year-old girl was caught after falling off a theme

park ride in the US has been captured on camera.

Matthew Howard Senior was at the Six Flags theme park

in New York State with his daughter, when he joined the

The girl suffered no serious injuries.

The ride has been closed while investigations are carried out.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30.

Just in, the number of fires in high-rise tower blocks in England

fell to its lowest level for at least seven years in the 12 months

to April. Home Office figures show there were 714 fires in

purpose-built blocks of ten stories or more, compared with over 1200

fires in 2009 - ten. The figures do not include the Grenfell Tower fire.

Tomorrow, we will dedicate the whole programme to Grenfell Tower, two

weeks on from the tragedy. We will be back in Kensington talking to

survivors and others. Do join us tomorrow for that.

Sport now, and John is back. The British and Irish lions are

playing Hurricanes in New Zealand. Warren Gatland 's side are looking

for a morale boosting win for the two Tests to come. Tommy Seymour got

the first try of the game. Hurricanes answered back. They had a

23-7 lead. Seymour claimed his second try of the match to become

the top scorer on the tour so far, with three to his neck. It is 31-17

to the lions currently, with less than 17 minutes remaining.

Johanna Konta is in action at Eastbourne today. She is the only

British woman to reach the main draw, which means she will be

shouldering British upset this year's tournament. Coverage starts

on BBC Two at 1pm today. Novak Djokovic is in action there

too. He has done a warm up tournament on grass for the first

time in seven years, desperately seeking form. The three-time

Wimbledon champion has slipped to number four in the world. He is

hoping to kick-start his grass court surroundings with new coach Andre

Agassi by his side. I am excited to be in a new place and I don't get to

do that often. We have pretty much the same schedule every single year,

over and over again, so it is great to visit new places, and it is a

small town, but everybody is excited to come out on the courts and

support the tennis players. The biggest name to feature there.

Serena Williams has responded to John McEnroe's claims that she

wouldn't be good enough to beat the men's player ranked 700th in the

world. He was asked if she could be considered the greatest ever player,

regardless of gender, and he said he felt she would not fare well on the

men's tour. The champion has responded, saying:

Quite a strong response to his comments.

After a shock defeat to India in the first match, inward's cricketers

face Pakistan in the women's World Cup. England are strong favourites

after comfortably beating Pakistan in a one-day series here last

summer. And New Zealand have won the 35th

America's Cup. Four years ago, USA, led by Sir Ben Ainslie, staged a

huge comeback to win. New Zealand made it look easy. Nice weather, as

you can see. Not so much here today. More cats and dogs in Salford than

Catamarans today. What price a strong

and stable government? The bill for ensuring that

Theresa May can rely on the 10 votes of Northern Ireland's DUP

is a billion pounds - that's over ?500 for each citizen

of Northern Ireland...or one hundred million pounds for each

of the ten MPs' votes. That's the economics

but what about the political price of spending a sum that could have

paid for, say, a 2% pay Something Theresa May made

clear wasn't possible Remember when she spoke to that

nurse on question Time and said there was no magic money tree?

In return for DUP support, the government has found that magic

money tree and promised to spend around a billion pounds extra

on projects in Northern Ireland, upgrading roads, installing

broadband, tackling deprivation and giving extra cash

But many want to know, if the money can be found

for buying votes in N Ireland, why can't it be found elsewhere?

Let's speak now to SNP MP Kirsty Blackman,

The SNP described it as a grubby, shameless deal...

Rebecca Webster who is a student nurse, nurses haven't had

And Elliott, who doesn't want us to use his surname,

who has mental health issues, and says he's been

Steve Rotheram, metro mayor of the Liverpool City Region,

he says if money can be found for N Ireland it should go

Downing Street said diary commitments prevented any ministers

joining our discussion, so instead they put up

Good morning to all of you and thank you for talking to us. Where did

Theresa May find that magic money tree, then? The amount of money

associated with the confidence and supply arrangement with the DUP will

come from the same place that all public expenditure comes from - from

taxation. Of course, at the last general election we had a hung

parliament, and when you have that, you come to agreements with other

political parties, and there are policy implications of that.

Obviously, the MPs from Northern Ireland wanted to see expenditure in

Northern Ireland increase, to go on things like infrastructure, schools,

health, etc. How is it justified to find ?1 billion to keep Theresa May

in power but no money for example, to give nurses pay rise? Nurses have

had a pay rise. There has been pay freeze for years. There has been a

cap, and I know that has put financial pressure on a lot of

public service professionals, but the amount of expenditure that has

been going into the NHS from the Government is still at a record high

and has been increasing, and will continue to increase throughout this

Parliament. I think it is understandable that when you enter a

hung parliament negotiation, the parties you are negotiating with,

you know, fight their corner for their part of the country. That's

understandable and acceptable, and natural by-product of a hung

parliament. Not necessarily. You could have run the country as a

minority Government and you didn't have to spend ?1 billion in order to

keep Mrs May in power. What is best for the UK are particularly as we go

through the Brexit negotiations, is to have a Government which has that

ability to govern properly, that is not on a knife edge on every vote,

and actually, if we get the Brexit negotiations right, that ?1 billion

of expenditure will be more than repaid by the increased economic

activity, the increased tax take. You've worked that out, have you? We

had a frankly chaotic -- if we had a frankly chaotic situation of a

Labour led Government, I think the economy would suffer, and the damage

to the UK economy would eclipse that ?1 billion of extra expenditure

going into Northern Ireland. Will the DUP only get the money if a

Northern Ireland power-sharing deal goes ahead?

The DUP are not getting the money. Northern Ireland is getting the

money. Will Northern Ireland only get the money if a Northern Ireland

power sharing deal goes ahead? My understanding is the money is

committed to, but we want the Northern Ireland Executive to choose

how to spend the money and the best thing. Sure. Sure. So you're saying

they will get the money even if there is no power sharing deal

between the parties in Northern Ireland? My understanding and I

haven't seen the full details, I have seen the public document that

was released is that the money is for the Northern Ireland Executive

to spend and the best way for that to happen is for all the political

parties in Northern Ireland to get back to Stormont and take over

devolved Government because what we want here in Westminster is for the

Northern Ireland Executive to run those devolved issues in Northern

Ireland. That's our desire. That's what we're ailing for. OK. OK, but

you are not clear on that so that does need clarification. Let me

bring in our other guests who have questions for you. We have an SNP MP

and the metro Mayor of Liverpool and Rebecca Webster and Elliot who has

mental health issues and has been affected by austerity. Who would

like to talk to James first as a representative of the Conservative

Government? You say it is best for the UK going into Brexit

negotiations. I don't that I that Brexit is not what just makes the UK

and as a student nurse working within the NHS at the momentks there

are other priorities. How can you say that allocating, should this ?1

billion not be distributed according to the issues of the UK and other

areas. The NHS isn't just suffering in Northern Ireland, it is suffering

across the UK. It was called a hult crisis during winter. So how can we

justify putting it in one place when it is needed throughout the whole of

the United Kingdom? I'm glad you brought that up because actually,

NHS expenditure right across the UK has been increasing and is going to

continue to increase. That was a commitment that the Government made

and abshutly will honour and you also say about targeting areas of

need. Without a shadow of a daushghts Northern Ireland has

suffered enormously over previous decades. It has significant pockets

of deprivation. It has significant areas of need and so, I completely

understand the DUP wanting to see an enhanced level of public expenditure

in Northern Ireland because Northern Ireland does have enhanced needs and

so, I think it is entirely reasonable and practical for the

Government to do that. You are saying that the money is being put

there, oufr I can tell you I'm working on the wards and I'm working

with the community and I am working with nurses who have been in the job

for 30 years and they are saying they're doing more with less. If

you're saying the money is there, why can't I see it? Why am I seeing

the revolving doors of mental health patients being brought in and then

sent home without the tools or the resources to keep in their

community. I need to see it. It's not working. Whatever is happening

at the moment is not working. Well, I mean, unfortunately, I can't

comment on the circumstances of the wards that you work on, but I know

the NHS is under pressure. We have a growing population. We have an

ageing population. The Government has recognised that and that's why

it committed to an on going increase in NHS expenditure to try and meet

those increased demands. I know that you know, at the front line in the

wards, in the hospitals, public service professionals are under

pressure. We can completely recognise that and that's why that

extra expenditure is going into the NHS.

Let me bring in Steve Rotherham. Do talk to Mr Cleverley. I think James

has drawn the short straw really and it is hardly the most sophisticated

argument, is it, to say that we have come up with a formula for Northern

Ireland and basically that's to buy off ten votes. Let's face the fact

that, and not kid ourselves that the whole deal with the DUP is to try

and dig the Government out of a very deep hole and out of doohdoo and I

wonder if James regrets the statements that were made before the

general election given the state of his party currently. What statement,

Steve? Well, such as a coalition of chaos for instance, James, isn't

that exactly what you're creating now with this shoddy and grubby deal

with the DUP? No, I think the point we made about the chaotic nature of

a Jeremy Corbyn-led coalition is justified. So, for Jeremy Corbyn to

even attempt to form a Government, he would need to create some kind of

rainbow coalition which would numerically have to include the DUP

as well. It is legitimate to say that trying to bind together... You

knew the outcome of the general election, did you? You already did

the maths on what was going to be, this coalition, post general

election that Jeremy Corbyn was going to enter into? I hope if

that's the case that you had a bet on it because you would be a very,

very rich man. Irony is lost on you. You said before about infrastructure

and investment for Northern Ireland. It's exactly what John McDonnell has

been asking for for years with the Tory Government. So are you saying

that Tory investment in Northern Ireland is good, but Labour

investment in the rest of the UK would have been bad for the economy?

No, what we said is Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell's maths didn't

even start to add up. Where did you get the ?1 million from? The level

of expenditure that was embedded in the Labour manifesto was just

completely uncredible. It was incredible. It was... They don't

like your manifesto. Can I answer the question? It was at levels that

would be unsustainable. In terms of infrastructure the Conservative

Government has committed to significant ats of infrastructure in

the north of England and in the north-west of England. We have been

committed to major infrastructure projects like HS2 which will bind

fantastic cities like your own with the other major cities around the

UK, share that prosperity. So I'm very proud of the commitment that

the Government has made to infrastructure, expenditure around

the UK, but we also recognise that Northern Ireland has, because of its

history, because of the history of the troubles, it had a unique

history which has held it back economically for a very long time

and I completely understand the DUP wanting to see plans put in place

that will help lift the Northern Irish economy. Well, let's bring in

Kirsty who is an SNP MP. Do talk to James Cleverley, Kirsty. I don't

understand how the Government can justify this deal. It's ?1 billion

for Northern Ireland. It's investment in things like health and

education which the Government decide is necessary in Northern

Ireland, but not anywhere else in the UK and we are not seeing the

same amount of money going into health and education services

elsewhere in the UK. Our manifesto that we stewed on had an increase

for the NHS in England because we wanted to see the NHS in England get

more money and we want to see that come to Wales, Northern Ireland and

Scotland. How can the Tories justify giving this extra money to Northern

Ireland and excluding the rest of the parts of the UK that are in need

of this cash? Well, Kirsty, I'm surprised to hear you say that. You

know, as well as I do, that Government expenditure per capita in

Scotland is higher than it is in England and I think it is a bit

unfair that begrudge a higher per capita expenditure in Northern

Ireland. We recognise... James, it is already significantly higher in

Northern Ireland than it is in Scotland. So, you know, you need to

be careful with this argument. In Scotland, it's significantly higher

than it is in England and we recognise that devolved governments

and certain parts of the country have greater need than others and

public expenditure is counterbalanced to take that into

consideration. But, you know, you know, that health and education is a

devolved issue in Scotland and if the SNP Government in Holyrood wants

to see more money in those areas of public ex-opinioned ture, they can

raise taxes. They have the power to do that and spend money on what we

both know to be health and education outcomes are lower than in England.

Do you think it is justifiable for a Westminster Government to give money

to the Northern Ireland Executive to spend on health and education, but

you wouldn't do so for Scotland. Why is it a different case? We already

do so in Scotland. You are not giving ?2.9 billion for Scotland to

spend on health and education? Expenditure in Scotland, just like

in the rest of the UK... Is lower than per head than in Northern

Ireland. There are different levels, the Government spends money in

different levels across across the United Kingdom UK and Northern

Ireland per head of population receives more than Scotland, but

Scotland receives more than England. That's the way it is and actually,

as a Unionist party, as a Government for the whole of the UK, we feel it

is entirely appropriate to distribute money from some of the

wealthier parts of the UK to some of the parts of the UK who need a boost

to build their economy and public services.

If you want to speak to your Government, if you're talking about

an area of the country that needs some additional help, well, we can

very easily help our area by for instance some of the infrastructure

projects that we have online, HS 3, as it was called, Northern

powerhouse rail or Crossrail for the north, the Government should start

that as soon as possible and if we start from Liverpool and work

towards Manchester we can link the whole northern corridor, but you

can't say that president Government specifically looks at areas with

deprivation and helps them areas out. We have had ?1.5 billion cut

from the six districts in the Liverpool City region, ?1.5 billion

and you have just given ?1 billion to Northern Ireland. How is that

justifiable? The Government invested a huge amount in Northern powerhouse

projects. I mean your own city has seen a transformation... Yeah,

that's because we have got a good council and we have had a Labour

Government and European funding in the past that has helped us to pick

ourselves up by our own boot straps. I am going to bring in Elliot if I

may. Elliot has been very patient. I live in Liverpool currently. I moved

from the south up to Liverpool for university and to see a Conservative

MP stand there and have the audacity to say that you have put money into

Liverpool. Liverpool is a world-class city. It is nothing to

do with you and everything to do with European finances and projects.

That city was built from ruins. If we're being honest, Liverpool was in

ruins especially after the end of the Thatcher Government. Margaret

Thatcher wanted to leave the city to decline. She wanted to leave that

city to the point where it was in such position that was

uninhabitable. Do not dare stand on national TV and praise yourself for

that city because you have nothing, nothing, to be proud of in that

city. Let me make my second point, the deprivation in Ireland has not

happened overnight. Ireland has not collapsed. Northern Ireland has not

become deprived overnight. It has been deprived for the entire time

you have been in Government. So why is it suddenly now when Theresa May

wants to cling on to power, ins your interests, why after seven years of

power are you so interested in injecting ?1 billion of public

money, it is not Conservative money, it is public money that could be

distributed to mental health nurses, to schools, to public second fors,

but no, because you want to cling to power, because you have got a woman

who does not understand the electorate and does not the

understand the message she has been given by the public, she has bribed

the Northern Irish Assembly with ?1 billion to keep her in power,

justify that now for me now, please. You mentioned mental health

services. Northern Ireland still has the... What I've asked you to do is

justify... I'm answering your questions. You're deflecting to

other points. It is a simple question. Justify in simple terms

why you think after seven years in Government, after seven years of

austerity, now is the time to give Northern Ireland and nobody else in

the country, ?1 billion at a point where your Government, by your own d

by your own making is in crisis? Justify that now without saying

Tories sound bites, lay it out in simple lay man terms, please.

Because it is an affront. The Government has increased spending

right across the country including Scotland, Wales, England, Government

expenditure has increased. We have been increasing expenditure in

Northern Ireland. And Northern Ireland has some of the most

significant issues because of it's history. You mentioned mental health

services, it has the highest suicide rate per capita in the whole of the

k and it's appropriate that we recognise the unique circumstances

of Northern Ireland. We are in a coalition, not a coalition, we are

in a hung parliament situation that means we have to negotiate with

other parties and that means the policies that the Government put

forward get adapted and amended in negotiation with those parties.

That's what happens in hung parliament situations. That's what

we've done. That is all very admirable, but if

you had won the election in turn round and said, Northern Ireland

needs investment immediately because it is terrible, but that is not what

has happened. It just wouldn't be happening because it wouldn't be

your priority. Your priority is clinging to power to the detriment

of the country. You are an affront to this country. Let him respond.

Our priority is doing what is right that the UK, and I have absolutely

no doubt that a Government led by Jeremy Corbyn would have been a

catastrophe for this country. And that is why we have entered into an

agreement with another political party in the UK to form a stable

Government. That is what happens when you have a hung parliament

situation. Those negotiations have meant that in addition to the

additional spending that we are putting into health and public

services around the rest of the UK, we are also putting additional

spending into Northern Ireland, above that which was already planned

for, of course, but that is a by-product of a hung parliament

agreement. OK, thank you, all of you, very much. Thank you to James

cleverly, who gave up his time at the last minute to talk on behalf of

the Conservative Government. We appreciate your time, all of you.

The now notorious cladding on the outside of Grenfell tower

is widely believed to have been partly responsible for the rapid

But almost two weeks on, no one knows whether it complied

with building safety regulations or not.

Was the cladding legal or wasn't it - and are people living in tower

75 high rise buildings, in 26 local authority areas in England,

have now failed fire safety tests ordered after Grenfell.

Of those examined - so far - every single sample has failed.

Urgent fire testing is continuing on buildings.

Our reporter Jim Reed has been looking into this.

Are the cladding panels illegal or not, Jim? It is really frustrating

for everyone, but we still cannot answer that question. We put in

calls left right and centre yesterday. The Government cannot

answer either. The Housing minister was asked repeatedly whether the

cladding panels, the stuff on the outside of Grenfell Tower, was it

illegal? Repeatedly asked but could not answer, saying it was

noncompliant with building regulations. What does that mean?

The regulations are so one clear. Someone described them as about as

clear as mud, so it depends how you interpret the language in the

regulations. One person says one thing, another person says another.

Another thing is that the police have said they are considering

criminal charges in this case. There is a long-standing arrangement in

British politics that politicians do not like to interfere or influence a

police investigation, so as soon as the police said that, it made it

quite difficult for the Government to come out on television and say,

yes, this was definitely illegal. OK, so what would a case come down

to? Who could potentially be prosecuted? It is complicated. The

cladding was attached by a contractor, who then gave the work

to a subcontractor. There is a whole chain of people. At the same time,

it was signed off by the council. Lawyers we spoke to yesterday say

that signing off in that way is key. Key, as in, liability. Potentially.

There was another case in 2009 the Lakanal House, and in that case,

Southwark Council were fined for signing off something they should

not have done. That was part of the case against them. In this case, we

do not know yet who was responsible, and the investigation is ongoing,

but that is one route that prosecutors could potentially take.

There is also the option of corporate manslaughter, quite a new

law, only brought in in 2008, and there could be an unlimited fine for

any of the organisation is involved. -- organisations involved. They

would have to prove that senior managers in organisations were aware

of what was going on, so it is harder to get to that stage of

proof. In terms of the testing of cladding, what is the latest? 75

buildings in 26 council areas across England, every single sample sent in

so far, coming back unsafe. The big question is, what are they testing

for? We asked the Government again and again yesterday and didn't get a

response. We think they are testing the combustibility of the panels.

People in the industry say that is one way of looking at it, but to get

an idea of how safe the outside of the building is, you need to look at

everything - the installation, Windows, the way it is fixed. This

could be confusing because the test does not get at the overall level of

fire safety, so how worthwhile visit? Thank you for the moment,

Jim. Arnold Tarling is a chartered

surveyor and a fire safety expert. Evildoer quick swap with Jim. Good

morning. Good morning. Are you shocked that we do not have clarity

yet on whether the cladding was illegal or not on Grenfell Tower?

No, because the building regulations are such a complete and utter

tangle, it's incredibly confusing. It's convoluted. You go from close

to clause, and based on my reading and that of many other people, those

panels do comply. Really? Yes. You cannot possibly get 75 blocks with

75 test all failing if people knew what the building regulations were

meant to say, if they were meant to be fire resistant. That is very

interesting. Do you happen to know who wrote the building regulations

part B was Max the GLC and other advisers, but that was before my

time. Civil servants and experts? Yes. And when were they brought in?

The first set was in 2000. In 2006, it is word for word the same. There

were revisions in 2010 and 2013, none of which dealt with sorting out

the mess on external cladding. OK, so is your understanding that people

have been interpreting it in any way they want, effectively, so that you

think the cladding is complied, legal, safe, but others might

interpret it different make when they look at -- differently when

they look at the regulations? If they interpret it differently, I

would like to show -- I would like them to show me how. Some people are

claiming that the external cladding was actually installation. It isn't.

Who was claiming that? I have seen that coming up from Government, that

two sheets of metal with a polyethylene call was the

installation, and it isn't. If you go to a building research

Establishment document, they will refer -- they are referred to as

experts by the Government, it is good building guide number 31, all

about external cladding and insulation for buildings. They

clearly differentiates the installation which is stuck to the

building, saying there is often an air gap, and down the outside, you

have the cladding. They differentiate installation from

cladding, so it is Humpty Dumpty interpretation to say that this

metal cladding is now insulation, it is what I say it is, because I think

it is. It is crazy. OK, thank you very much.

Tomorrow, we will be dedicating the programme to Grenfell Tower, two

weeks on from the tragedy, speaking to local residents and survivors. Do

join us at 9am on BBC Two, the BBC News Channel and online.

The level of homophobic bullying in Britain's secondary schools has

fallen by a third in a decade, according to a study

The study, commissioned by the gay rights charity Stonewall,

says the use of insulting language is less frequent and schools

are more likely to prevent attacks on gay pupils.

But the report says 45% of gay pupils still face bullying.

We can speak now to David Braniff-Herbert,

who was bullied at school over his sexuality, he's now a LGBT

activist and to Jake Jones, a secondary school PE teacher

in East London who can tell us how his school is tackling

Welcome to both of you. Thank you for talking to us. David, hello.

Bullying started to you when you went to secondary school when you're

about 13, 14 years of age. Tell our audience about that. It was a

terrifying experience for me, School. It started with

name-calling, and I think it is because I wasn't the sort of usual

masculine type. I think my voice was different. As soon as they picked up

on that, they homed in on it and did that continually. It started with

name-calling, but it continually escalated. And the impact on you? I

mean, I think I was about 14 when my hair started to fall out. And the

stress was getting to me so substantially that I started to

consider self harm, started to have thoughts about killing myself. And

that was a really tough time. My mother could see that there was

something going on, and she took me to the doctor, and the doctor

diagnosed me with depression. I was given antidepressants. So, it was a

really tough time, walking round the school was pretty tough, terrifying.

Let me bring in J, a PE teacher. -- Jake. You teach pupils in years

7-11. What do you cover in lessons that may have contributed to the

drop in the rate of bullying of LGBT students? In terms of the classes,

there is huge scope for a lot of content that could be covered. My

school has a cutback pride youth network, and this is a group of

young people -- my school has a Pride youth network. We will talk

about LGBT history at assembly, we will talk about issues around

homophobic and transfer big bullying, and it is just about

having role models outside of school. When you have young people

who identify as LGBT, they can kind of see that there are aspirations

and ever is somewhere for them to go. There is some great

organisations out there, and I think in terms of resource, there was a

plethora, and it is about showing other schools and teachers where to

go. I have been lucky enough to be privy to this information through

the work I have done in the LGBT community, so there are great

organisations such as Diversity Role models, who will bring in people

from the community, people who will do training, Pride youth networks,

and Mermaid, a charity for trans-youth and their families. I

think it is definitely going in the right direction. We are going in the

right direction, but there are practical policies that will move us

in the right direction, such as gender neutral toilets, cubicles in

changing rooms. The classes bring up quite a lot of different issues for

pupils in that remit, and there is definitely work to be done, but it

is not all bad. There is some great stuff going on out there. And we

have definitely had some positive experience here at my school. Thank

you, Jake. And thank you, David, for coming on the programme.

?46,000 for a two-day train journey for Prince Charles.

?1.2 million to replace doors at the orangery at Windsor Castle.

?1.5 million spending on food and drink hospitality in the Queen's

households, the latest royal accounts make

They show that the Queen is to receive an 8% increase

in her income from public funds after the Crown Estate posted

Robert Haigh is director of the consultancy

Brand Finance who, for the last four years have been valuing

Is that right, Robert? Yes. What do you think of the Royal household

expenditure? If you look at it in the context of expenditure that

would be happening in a political context, the numbers are not that

high. Obviously, very different - one lot is elected, one lot

definitely not. But if you look at the value the Queen can deliver for

the country, it is certainly justified. We calculated that the

monarchy makes a net contribution to the UK annually of over ?1.1

billion. It is value for money. That's interesting. How have you

worked out that net contribution? We look at the value from uplift to

tourism through the additional appeal of having the monarchy, to

heritage sites and international tourism. We also look at the

equivalent value of the PR generated by the Royal family, which may sound

spurious, but it is genuinely beneficial to the UK to have that

additional focus on the country through the activities of the

younger royals and the Queen herself. The next point, you know,

would we not still have that net contribution without the personnel,

if we just add Buckingham Palace, if we just at Windsor Castle? Would we

not still have that uplift? There is certainly value in the assets

themselves. There is a big heritage tourism industry in France, for

example. But there is no doubt that the reality of having a living

monarchy increases the appeal, and just the fact that the are these

living characters the international media can focus on makes that appeal

much more significant for the tourism market. Thank you very much.

A Sikh couple say they were told they couldn't adopt a white child

The couple told an adoption agency they were happy to take a child

from any ethnic background, but say they were advised instead

It's legal for adoption agencies to give preference to parents

from the same ethnic group, but Government guidelines say

different racial backgrounds should not prevent a couple from adopting.

Let's talk to the couple, Reena and Sandeep Mander,

from their home in Maidenhead and with us in the studio

is their solicitor, Georgina Calvert-Lee.

Hello all of you. Let me talk to you both about your