29/06/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock.

A retired judge - Sir Martin Moore-Bick -

will lead the inquiry into the Grenfell Tower disaster.

We'll ask if his appointment will lead to survivors getting

the answers they need about the tragedy.

There are moves already being made. The public enquiry has already

started, but we haven't been given the opportunity to come together as

one. We need and demand to be part of every single decision made in

that public enquiry. We will bring you some facts about the man who

will lead the investigation, and why he is described by one newspaper

today as controversial. The parents of a man who became

known as jihadi Jack talk about their efforts to bring him home from

Syria. I remember screaming in screaming at him on the phone, how

could he be so stupid? The line went dead and he did not contact us

again. Not for another three weeks. We will have an interview with the

parents about the last time they spoke to their son. Will the

Government stand firm on its spending plans when their

legislative programme is debated in the Commons again today?

We are live until 11, as we are each weekday morning. The question today:

Is it time to relax their pay cap on firefighters, teachers, nurses and

everyone else who works in the public sector? If you're affected by

the pay cap which was debated in the Commons last night, and there was a

movement to try to get that lifted but it was defeated, if you want to

see that happen, do let me know how you think it should be paid for.

It is expected that the retired appeal court judge, Sir Martin Moore

Bick, will be appointed to lead the public enquiry into the Grenfell

Tower fire. The Government says it is determined

to get to the truth of what happened at Grenfell Tower, and this

is the man set to be given that task - a retired Court of Appeal judge,

Sir Martin Moore-Bick. He specialised in commercial law

in a career spanning With the clamour for answers,

he will be expected to produce his The police say they may not be able

to confirm how many people died until the end of the

year at the earliest. They estimate so far

that the death toll stands at 80, but stress that is not

the final picture. Some victims may

never be identified. As the investigation continues,

the National Housing Federation is calling on the Government

to stop its testing of cladding, and instead focus on removing it

to make people safe. Having had 120 different tests,

from different samples, from different buildings,

in different parts of the country, I think we can now say that

according to the tests that the Government is carrying out,

this cladding is not We don't need to test

any more of it. Today, another victim of the fire

will be laid to rest, His family say they are devastated,

and will miss him terribly. The sad reality is there will be

many funerals to follow. Let's talk to our legal eagle, Clive

Coleman. Tell us more about this retired judge. He has a kind of

classic CV of a successful court of appeal judge. He was called to the

bar in 1986, served as a deputy High Court judge, and was then a High

Court judge, serving mainly in the commercial Court, dealing with

technical, engineering type evidence, in many cases, which of

course is a qualification for Grenfell. He retired last year, and

for the last two years, he was vice president of the Court of Appeal's

civil division. He is married with children. He is an establishment

figure, and his brother is a retired general. Why is he described as

controversial by the papers today? He left the Court of Appeal last

year, after serving 11 years or so. This morning, in the papers, one of

his decisions has been picked up, and it is a case in 2014 where he

oversaw a case and ruled that a London tenant, a woman who lived in

Westminster, a single mother with five children, and she was re-housed

some 50 miles away by Westminster Council, in Bletchley, near Milton

Keynes. She disputed that decision, said it was unlawful, took a

judicial review will stop when it got to the Court of Appeal, he had

to scrutinise whether decision taken by the Council... And councils are

allowed to rehouse people out of area in certain circumstances. He

decided it was not unlawful. Some people are nodding at that as

perhaps a perceived bias against vulnerable families. Everyone I have

spoken to has said, look at his entire career. This was one decision

and he was applying the law. After the case, the solicitor said, the

judgment could have dire consequences for vulnerable families

across the country. He said, it gives the green light for councils

to engage in social cleansing of the poor on a mass scale. When you have

comments like that, you could see why some people would think that is

a controversial judge for this enquiry. What about the terms of

reference, who decides that? That will be decided by the Government.

Let me say why I think they have picked this particular judge. First,

he has been in the commercial court. As a barrister, he was involved in

shipping cases and would have had to deal with complex engineering

matters - why a ship sank, for instance. You need are judge you can

get their head around the technical details. You also need a judge who

is going to be good in communicating with the families, empathetic.

Heather Hallett got a lot of plaudits for the way she handled the

77 case -- the 7/7 case. A friend of Martin Moore Bic has said that he

can be persuaded and can change his position.

Annita McVeigh is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

There'll be another big test for Theresa May in the Commons today

as she faces a key vote on the Queen's Speech.

With the support of the Democratic Unionists,

the Government is expected to pass its plans for the next

Parliament, after narrowly surviving a vote last night on changes

Our Political Correspondent Leila Nathoo has the details.

The first vote of this parliament on a Labour amendment

to the Queen's Speech proposing to end the cap on public sector pay

This was the first test of Theresa May's deal with the DUP,

made to boost the numbers on her side in the Commons.

with the Conservatives to help see off the opposition's challenge.

Today ahead of the final vote on the Queen's Speech which sets out

the government's policy programme, Labour will try their luck again.

We're putting forward fundamentally what was in the manifesto

in the election, a Brexit which guarantees trade relations

with Europe, a government that ends the public sector pay gap

-- with Europe, a government that ends the public sector pay cap

and a government that invests in the educational future

of all our children, from nursery through to university.

Labour thinks it's on the front foot with its calls to end austerity.

Many Conservatives admit the cuts didn't go down well on the doorstep

But after signals from senior Cabinet members and Downing Street

sources that the pay cap would be reviewed,

there was not yet any change in policy.

We will not make our decision on public sector pay

until the Pay Review Body has reported.

And we will listen to what they say, and we will listen to what people

in this House have said before making a final decision.

Theresa May is expected to win the vote on the Queen's Speech today

with the support of the DUP and her backbenchers

But her majority is slim, her authority is still fragile.

Police in Australia have charged one of the most senior

Roman Catholic Cardinals, George Pell, with sexually

Cardinal Pell is in charge of the Vatican's finances

and is considered to rank third in the hierarchy of the church.

He is accused of multiple offences dating back to the 1970s-

I am looking forward finally to having my day in court. I am

innocent of these charges. They are false. The whole idea of sexual

abuse is abhorrent to me. Talks over resuming power-sharing

Stormont have stalled with only eight hours to go until the

deadline. Northern Ireland faces the prospect of direct rule from London

if an agreement cannot be reached. Culture and media secretary Karen

Bradley will make an announcement today about whether 20th Century

Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch, is allowed to take over sky. It would

give Mr Murdoch total control of the broadcaster of which he already owns

39%. Opponents say that any deal will give him too much power over

the UK media. A mother has described the distress

of discovering her baby son had been The woman, from Nottingham,

said she has been trying for four years to get the authorities to take

action, after she opened her son's The boy was circumcised in 2013

when he was apparently staying Three people have now been arrested

on suspicion of grievous The National Crime Agency says it's

increasingly concerned about the influence criminals

from the Balkans - particularly violent

gangs from Albania - have over the UK drug

trafficking market. It says corrupt workers at ports

and airports make it easier Here's our Home Affairs

Correspondent, Danny Shaw. To get in touch with this today.

Details on screen. Now, let's get some sport. The big news from New

Zealand in the last few hours is that Warren Gatland has named his

lions team for the second Test. You wait four years for a lions tour

and you just hope it won't be an anti-climax, but it may be going

that way this time around. The pressure is building for Warren

Gatland and his players, stuck between a rock and a hard place at

the moment. We knew it would be tough against world champions New

Zealand. They go into the second test in Wellington knowing that

anything other than victory means they cannot win the series. Warren

Gatland has made several changes, Sam Warburton replacing Peter

O'Mahoney in the back row. George Cruise drops out of the match day

squad altogether. Courtney Lawes will Beer substitute. Ben Te'o moves

to the bench. Owen Farrell is given a start at inside centre, meaning

Jonny Sexton will take up that pivotal spot. Warren Gatland gave

his views on that Farrell and Sexton combination. They haven't started

together but they have had quite a bit of time together. It has given

us two ballplayers, two kicking options on the right foot. We also

have left foot options. We are happy with the mix. That partnership could

be key to the lions unlocking success this weekend. Is not their

side. The only time they have lost the opening test in comeback to win

was in was in Australia in 1989. According to the incoming chair of

UK sport, there are huge concerns about the welfare of athletes.

Tell us more. Dame Katherine Grainger, Olympic gold medallist,

will be the new chair of UK Sport from July. She has given her first

interview and says she has huge concerns over athlete welfare, and

given the recent bullying accusations in several sports, she

feels there is a real need for improvement. She has little

experience in sports administration, so it was a surprise appointment at

a critical time. Despite her amazing achievements, in her interview with

our sports editor, she says she's very serious about this new role.

There I huge concerns about welfare, without a doubt. I think we have to

address it. Everyone is under pressure, so athletes want to

deliver, coaches want to get results, performance directors,

chief executives. There is a situation of, how good can we be and

how many medals can we deliver? And the future of our sport is dependent

on this. Sports are complaining about the funding they have been

receiving, and she says there will be a tough financial future ahead,

which will be a challenge for all disciplines going forward. A bit of

that expectation for Tokyo and beyond may have to be curtailed a

little bit. Thank you. More throughout the morning.

Labour will ask MPs to support elements of its general election

manifesto today aimed at increasing public spending.

They're doing it by putting forward what's called an amendment

to the government's programme for the next few years known

It will get voted down though because even Conservative

politicians who support an easing of austerity won't bring

down their own government by voting against the Queen's Speech.

A previous Labour amendment, on lifting the public sector

pay cap, was defeated in the Commons last night.

But some senior Conservatives appear to have signalled that,

after seven years, austerity could be coming to an end.

A quick reminder of the last Chancellor,

George Osborne, last year spelling out his approach

to the public finances in the years he was in charge of the purse

This is the first time this government has announced the

And that is why the government is asking the

public sector to accept a two-year pay freeze.

There are big underlying problems we have to fix in our

More repairs, more cuts, more difficult decisions.

So we may need to undertake further reductions

in spending because this country can only afford what it can afford.

Now contrast that with senior Conservative MPs

and cabinet ministers who - in a series of interviews

yesterday - left no doubt as to the Government's new approach.

We've had to take some tough decisions and in the wake

of the general election, we're going to have

to think through what we do come the next budget.

I think in due course, not immediately but in due course,

we will need to consider the question of the

This is obviously something we have to consider,

not just for the Army but right across the public sector as a whole.

Our political guru Norman Smith is in Westminster.

Is this the end of austerity, Norman? It may not be the end of

austerity, but I think we are seeing a fundamental change now in the wake

of the election, although the government will probably win

tonight's Queen's speech debate, and they won the vote last night on the

paid cap, things have changed pretty fundamentally. What is striking when

you listened it for example to yesterday's debate was the number of

Conservative MPs getting up and basically saying this pay cap is

unfair, it demoralises staff in the NHS, makes it harder to retain and

recruit staff. There is a broader sense among the Tories that they

cannot carry on with it. We have had pay freezes for seven years now. If

you think back to Margaret Thatcher when she was Prime Minister she

attempted austerity about two or three years and we have now had

seven years. This has never been done before. When you listen to

George Osborne, under his plans we would be carrying on with austerity

potentially for another seven years up to the middle 2020s. There is

just a recognition that the great British public are weary, they are

tired and do not have the stomach for going on with this. And also the

sense that the easier cuts in public services have been made. You are now

having to make very difficult decisions about how you save money

in schools and hospitals, and that austerity, which originally might

have been confined to the public sector, or people on benefits, now

pretty much every section of society is feeling the squeeze. So I think

we will see in the Autumn Statement the foot taken off the gas of the

paid cap and you may see further retreats in other areas of austerity

too. Austerity is not over but there is no doubt that Hammond the

Chancellor will take his foot off the gas.

Diane has tweeted I am an NHS band to work and I get ?8 42 per hour and

I'm the victim of many assaults at work. Imagine how I feel when MPs

cheer at keeping the cap while giving the DUP ?1 billion and the

Queen and 8% rise. Matt Jones on Facebook: it is

rubbish police and teachers are poorly paid. The nonteaching head of

my local comprehensive gets ?145,000 a year. Sarah James is a council

employee and had her pay frozen for the last seven years. Tony Babb runs

his own recruitment company and is concerned about the potential end of

austerity. Thorrun Govind is a community pharmacist and says she is

happy to pay more in tax. In Great Yarmouth is Matt Smith, a former

Ukip councillor who runs his own small business and wants more or

continuing austerity. Welcome. A quick answer from all of you, Sarah,

is it time for the 1% pay cap on council employees, nurses, teachers,

soldiers, firefighters and the police to end? Yes. Yes. Of course

the pay cap shouldn't end. Absolutely. Sarah, you have had this

pay freeze for the last seven years. Why is it time for it to stop now?

Seven years we have had since 2010, a pay freeze of 0%. 2012, 1%. It's

less than inflation, 2.5% on average per year so we are actually having a

pay cut. It is getting to the point that it's not right that our nurses

and public sector staff I having to rely on food parcels and the lady

who tweeted in who said you are getting MPs getting their own pay

rises, the Queen getting a pay rise, public sector workers are the

backbone of society. Theresa May standing on the door of No 10 saying

we value their service, especially in the last few weeks, they do a

great job, but that doesn't put food in people's stomachs, doesn't put

clothes on people's backs and is about time we get decent pay for a

decent job. Matt Smith, you have clearly said

no, it's not time to end the pay freeze. Sarah James is a council

employee, tell her why it isn't the right time. The problem is what you

are looking at which is that if you spend more than you earn eventually

you will go broke so we have not seen austerity in this country. We

have seen a minor reduction of the deficit, the debt is not going down,

there are so many more important things that we need to pay for. Like

what? The Institute for Fiscal Studies said public sector workers

earn more than their counterparts in the private sector. We have

executives on more pay than the Prime Minister, locally in Norfolk

recently we had an executive get a ?250,000 payoff, that is where we

should be cutting. I don't think public sector pay will rise because

people in the private sector are not seeing it, certainly not in Great

Yarmouth where I am. Like Matt, Tony, you run your own private

company, you say the public sector pay freeze should be relaxed. Why?

It's a difficult situation we find ourselves in, I'm not wanting to

massively sit on the fence but there has to be something done, enough is

enough and we have seen that from the general election. People in the

public sector, ... I agree there are inefficiencies in the public sector

and the easiest thing to say is freeze the lowest paid workers'

increases is simplistic and unfair. That said, I need an answer as to

where it comes from because I don't want to plunge back into the

economic dark ages. So you do not want more borrowing to fund this

which the Institute for Fiscal Studies said if it was relaxed would

cost over ?4 billion extra per year by 2019. That means raising taxes. I

see no other real way of doing it. Is that a great idea in itself? Do

we want to see small and medium businesses crushed and leaving the

country? With Brexit on everyone's mind and high owners and business

owners leaving the country because it's not economically viable for

them to stay, that has a knock-on effect as well. You said

emphatically you would like to see the paid cap relaxed. Tell us about

your relationship with the Conservative Party and how it has

changed because of austerity, use a. Yes, I was a Conservative voter, but

unfortunately I feel as a community pharmacist that the Conservatives

were not looking after the public. We have had the nurse who spoke to

Theresa May during the campaign, and Theresa May said there is no magic

money tree. Well, the Conservative logo is a money tree and it has gone

straight to the DUP and I'm absolutely appalled at how there has

been cuts in the funding to community pharmacy and the NHS, and

it's all trickling down to affect the workers. Let me pause you there,

Thorrun. As you the Conservative logo is a magic money tree and has

gone to the DUP. Matt Smith in Great Yarmouth raised his eyebrows and

shook his head in disagreement. Talk to Thorrun about that. You are

suspending disbelief at the moment. We have not reduced the debt, we

have not worked out what we are going to do in the future. Veneto

Thorrun's point was if ?1 billion can be traced, whether it's from

borrowing or not... The truth is you don't have the money for either of

those things. We can't just keep spending money willy-nilly,

eventually it will run out, we are increasing the debt. Remember in

2010, the secretary to the Treasury said we have run out of money. It

has been seven years since then, we still don't have any money and we

have not paid off the debt will stop what will happen? Many politicians

are saying we have to take serious action. We have not seen austerity.

Let me point something out here. With ?1 spent in community pharmacy

we save the NHS between ?21 and ?26. Sometimes you have to spend a little

money to spend a lot of money. That's just in one instance. I can't

say I know your job inside out, I really don't but there is so much

spending going on in government and we don't know where it is going. It

is being spent on expenses, so much spent on MP expenses, MP pay rises,

not to the people helping to make a difference in this country, the

firefighters who ran into the Grenfell fire, we must respect these

people and make sure they are looked after. 600 odd MPs getting a pay

rise is in no way equivalent to the amount of money would cost to give a

pay rise to every single firefighter, nurse, health worker,

anything, you name it. What about the people who work in the private

sector that might work in Boots, or in a shop somewhere else, they are

not seen their wages go up particularly because inflation is

going up so much. I just think fundamentally we need to think about

the people who are looking after the vulnerable in this country. Nurses

should not be going to food banks. Nurses should not be walking into a

pharmacy... That is a lie, somebody sipping champagne in New York is not

the sort of woman who needs to user feedback. Let me bring Sarah back in

who is a council employee. Have to ask the question, where the money

comes from. There are all sorts of choice is the government could make

raising income tax, National Insurance, raising VAT, although

Theresa May promised before the election she would not raise the 80

but I do not know where they stand now. They have a deal with the DUP.

It could be reducing the foreign a budget. It could be not spending

money on a chest to. They're all sorts of things. Could be borrowing.

-- HS2. Where would you like the money to come from to fund a pay

rise for public sector workers? It must be costed. There are luxuries

that for me is frivolous spending. We don't need it. If you lived in

Manchester or Birmingham, you could say we need that, it is economically

important. That is why we select our MPs to sit in Parliament to make

those decisions on our behalf. I work with people coming in asking

for help with their rent and council tax costs, so I totally disagree

with what Matt said about people not relying on food banks and not

relying on local welfare provision. I see it day in and day out. I

didn't say generally ordinary people, the nurse didn't need that.

In terms of that I see it on a daily basis. I'm passionate that we need a

pay rise. It is good for the economy. More money in, spending

more money, will lower the benefit bill because people will not have to

rely on benefits to have housing costs pay for a council tax paid

for. That is why I'm passionate about getting the pay rise in place.

Public sector workers are the backbone of this country. So small

businesses. You run and so does Matt. You touched on earlier that if

taxes were raised that could act as a brake on economic growth. Is that

a worry for you, particularly with Brexit negotiations? We have never

had a more divisive time Van recently in terms of every decision

as a yen and Yang to it. What has happened over the last seven years

is a strengthening in the British economy. We have moved forward in

terms of jobs and unemployment, moved forward in terms of growth

generally over that period. To jeopardise that is a dangerous

affair. Businesses do feel the pinch with this sort of thing and we've

got to be careful to stimulate growth. A couple more e-mails

watching you talk about this around the country.

Antonia says I am a nurse working in the NHS for the last 13 years and I

am disillusioned with the government. I foolishly voted for

Theresa May in June. I could kick myself, I struggle every month as my

salary shrinks year-on-year. It makes a difference to my salary

which is eaten up with more National Insurance, tax and pension. I have

signed up with a nursing baby Dummett agency to top of my wages

paying an extra ?10 and now more than I received with the NHS. Paul

says I believe the good way to put money into the health service would

be to charge ?10 for a doctor's visit. I have to pay to see the

dentist and optician. Would it be fair to visit the doctor and paid?

Thank you for one of those? Thank you for joining us. I appreciate

your time. Your views are welcome, particularly if you work in the

public sector, or not. What you think about whether, as Norman was

saying, there are moves within government to perhaps relax it when

it comes to the autumn Budget Statement? Still to come: we will

hear from the parents of the 21-year-old man who became known as

jihadis jack after travelling to Syria, about the last time they

spoke to their son and their efforts to get him back to the UK. And we

have the latest developments as the government is to rule this morning

on whether to give the green light to Rupert Murdoch's proposed

takeover of Sky. A retired Court of Appeal judge has

been appointed to lead the enquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire. Police

say that at least 80 people are now known to have died, but the final

death toll will not be known until at least the end of the year.

Theresa May will face a major test of whether she has enough authority

to stay in power as MPs vote on the Queen's Speech later today.

With the support of the Democratic Unionists the government is expected

to pass its plans for the next Parliament, after narrowly surviving

a vote last night on changes to public sector pay.

Jeremy Corbyn is calling on MPs to support his plans

Police in Australia have charged one of the most senior

Roman Catholic Cardinals, George Pell, with sexually

Cardinal Pell is in charge of the Vatican's finances

and is considered to rank third in the hierarchy of the church.

He is accused of multiple offences dating back

to the 1970s - charges he's strenuously denied.

Talks over resuming power-sharing at Stormont remain stalled ,

with only hours to go until the deadline.

If no deal is reached to restore the devolved government

by four this afternoon, Northern Ireland faces the prospect

The Culture and Media Secretary, Karen Bradley, will announce today

whether 21st Century Fox, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch,

The deal, which has been cleared by European Commisision

competition authorities, would give Mr Murdoch total control

of the broadcaster - he already owns 39% of the company.

Opponents say any deal will give him too much power in the UK media.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

Hugh's back now with the sports headlines.

Warren Gatland has made some tough calls in terms of the line-up for

the starting 15 against New Zealand. Campbell -- Sam Warburton comes into

the pack. Owen Farrell will start at inside centre, and Jonny Sexton has

been named as fly-half. Jade Jones remains on course to

complete a career grand slam of major tae kwon do titles as she

reached the semifinals in South Korea. She is guaranteed at least a

world bronze. Dame Katherine Grainger is the incoming chair of UK

Sport, and she says she has concerns about the welfare of athletes given

the number of sport bodies facing bullying accusations.

That's all for now. We'll be back just after 10am.

A 21-year-old man from Oxford, who travelled to the so-called

Islamic State-controlled area of Syria in 2014, says he's now

being held by Kurdish forces fighting the group.

Jack Letts, dubbed "Jihadi Jack", is suspected of going to Syria

to fight for so-called Islamic State - he claims he is opposed

His parents - who have pleaded not guilty to charges of funding

terrorism after being accused of sending cash to their son -

are calling on the British authorities to do "whatever

We spoke to Sally and John Letts recently and they told me

about the last time they spoke to Jack Letts.

Up until that point, we'd been having reasonably

About every other day, we were speaking to him

And then, as of last Thursday, all contact stopped.

So we're not, we don't know what's going on now.

Erm, he's in protective custody in, erm, the Kurdish controlled

So, he's been able to tell us where he is and who he is with,

And, erm, we've been trying to contact the Foreign Office

to help us, you know, get him out, really.

Protective custody, does that mean jail?

He's been, he was being held in a prison but he said he hadn't

actually been arrested and they were doing it to protect

This is this group of fighters who oppose Isis,

They had told him they were very impressed that he had,

one, managed to escape, that they had looked

into him and they were going to take good care of him.

They said he could stay in the Kurdish region but that,

I mean, Isis is still operating in the area and presumably others.

So, but where he actually is right now, since we haven't heard in two

So that is what is worrying us hugely.

When you were having those long phone conversations from this,

from wherever he is in northern Syria, what was he saying to you?

Erm, he was, he was wondering what was going to happen to him next

because it was very difficult for him to escape from where he was.

He was in a very dangerous part of Syria.

And we thought that now he had finally made it out

of Isis-controlled territory that that would be it, that he would be

Erm, and we have been told by the British authorities that

as soon as he makes it out of Isis controlled territory,

But, erm, no help has been forthcoming so far,

even though we've known where he is since, well,

You will know that your son told Channel 4 News he opposes

Well, you know, he definitely is Muslim.

And he, I think he was taken by, as many were that went out,

by the idea of creating this utopian Muslim society.

I do think he probably believed that and probably still believes that.

There's a big difference from being Muslim, as everybody knows,

and being an extremist, violent, who wants to impose it.

He said he didn't agree with a lot of what Islamic State follow.

Well, I think it would be great to have him back here to answer

I think he should be sitting here and talking

I can't account for all of Jack's movements for three years.

I mean, we had no idea he was going there,

I mean, I made a lot of stupid mistakes when I was 18.

It is kind of like a rather extensive gap year.

When he went out there initially, it was all about Assad.

It was, it was, a part of the uprising against Assad,

you know, the civil war then, it was part of the Arab Spring.

Jack went out to the region in May 2014.

Yeah, and before he went, he was very upset about

I mean, it was known at 11,000 people had been

We never for a minute thought that he would go

We tried to get him out with official permission.

I fully understand how difficult it is for the police in this

I want to walk the streets safely when my relatives

I've been here for a long, long time.

You know, we all want to walk the streets safely.

But he has questions to answer, that's absolutely fine.

If he's back, we've always said, you know, hand yourself over

to the British once you get out and I'd be the first

But, you know, you are, I thought, innocent until proven guilty.

And, and, I think if he is questioned, he can

talk about it but how would my going to find

And what he tells me I assess and I think that everything makes

sense from what he has been telling us for two and a half years.

When you got the call, I think it was you, Sally,

from Jack, saying he was in Syria, this was 2014.

What, what did you say to each other?

What was going through your head when you realised where he was?

I mean, I was screaming at him on the phone,

And then, and then the line went dead.

So, erm, and then he did not contact us again for another three weeks.

And in those three weeks, erm, we spent every single minute trying

to contact whoever we could, trying to get help.

So everybody from journalists, to charities, to Prevent,

organisations, youth workers who work with Prevent

and then we did a lot of our own reading about who,

You tried to send ?1700 or something?

Well, we tried to send money and it got blocked,

So the total sum we tried to send is that amount.

And then we were, we were actually charged with the offences.

And then you were arrested on the grounds that the money

you were transferring, trying to transfer, may have been

What happened to you both after being arrested?

Erm, there was a period before they, the CPS decided

We were refused bail at the Magistrates' Court and put

on remand for five days but that got, that got overturned on appeal.

But since the arrest, what has been the impact

Clearly, five days in jail is not what you would have

After we were arrested, the first thing was,

we had to sign in at the police station every day.

And then we had a curfew between midnight and 6am.

Every time the doorbell rings, it is the police,

It's been really difficult, very stressful.

And how has your son reacted to the...

Because of his actions, what has happened to you in the meantime?

We haven't really been able to talk too much to him about it.

I mean, we really want to see him face-to-face.

Well, when he was inside, he couldn't really speak very openly.

Yeah, we've had a little chat and I think he thinks that's

horrible, that the system should not be doing this to us.

What about what he's done and the impact it had both of you?

Yeah, it's been horrible and extremely upsetting.

Well, I think I'd like him to sit here and you can ask him that

himself but I'm sure he does to a degree.

You don't sound very convinced, if you don't mind me saying.

Well, I don't know how to answer that because I haven't had that

"Jack, do you feel really upset at what that has caused to us?"

Yeah, I think he is upset by that but he's also motivated

by his own internal things and what can I do?

He's a 21-year-old, quite confident, arrogant, you know, pig-headed lad.

And on a phone call, on a crackly line, it is really hard

to have an in-depth conversation about how upset his

How did you feel when you read the statement your son had given

where he said he hated you, his parents, for the sake of Allah,

hated you his parents, for the sake of Allah

because you are non-believers and called on you to convert to Islam?

I, I haven't tackled him directly about it.

A lot of those strange things that Jack has said in interviews

or sometimes on Facebook, sometimes, we've wondered,

is it, is he being forced to say these things?

Is he in a situation where people are overhearing

what he is saying and he has to, in order to kind of save his

life, he has to sort of say certain things?

Sometimes he would write messages that he wouldn't say out loud.

So he would say certain things out loud that sounded strange.

And I thought, he's in an Internet cafe, he's being overheard,

he's having to say these things, and then what he really thought,

he would send in a text message, during the same conversation.

A lot of the religious things he said would be said out loud.

He narrowly survived an air strike with just a scratch.

Everyone is going to die on their day, whether it

is by a drone strike, a Muslim understands that

that his life is between the hands of Allah so if they want to bomb me,

Yeah, I've heard a lot of Christians say that same message.

But what do you think about the fact he was almost killed?

We've been living with this for three years, every day.

You're waiting for a phone call saying your son's been killed.

Our home affairs correspondent has been in touch with

He reports that it appears Jack has little desire

Well, he wants to get out of where he is.

We would like him to come back to the UK but, erm,

I don't think he would be, I don't think he

I think he wants to live in an Islamic country.

He has been told where he is being held at the moment that he would be

released to the British so I think he's resigned himself to the fact

that he will come back here for questioning.

And I think ideally, that would happen.

He would be able to tell his side of the story.

He wouldn't be on the run for the rest of his life and then,

once he's cleared his name, then he can live his life

as he chooses, probably, in his mind, in an Islamic country.

In your heart of hearts, do you think you will

Well, up until then, we thought, we didn't know

The odds against him surviving were probably quite slim.

Whereas now, we think, yeah, he is alive, he has

survived, miraculously, and we will see him again.

It's pretty hard to let go of that idea but there were many times

when I reached the point where I thought, no, that's it.

And you know, he was such a funny boy and such a nice kid, really,

he would bend over backwards to help people all the time.

You must have had conversations about, what could we

Was it something to do with the way we brought him up?

For three years, you're constantly looking out,

Did I not spend enough time with him?"

I spent a lot of time with him and there was nothing there that

made me think that the media stereotype of him, you know,

And I don't believe that media stereotype.

Whatever discipline you can do, yeah, we were really strict on him.

But strict in terms of behaviour, like, respect of women,

That is how I was raised, in a very multicultural

society, where we had a lot of tolerance for people.

You know, I think the values I was raised with as a Canadian

The Queen is on our bills so I share the same British values.

And he was raised with those values and I think

Thank you both very much for talking to us.

The Foreign Office says: "The UK advises against all travel

As all UK consular services are suspended in Syria

and greatly limited in Iraq, it is extremely difficult to confirm

the whereabouts and status of British nationals in

Still to come before ten o'clock. Been credible account of the British

Transport Police offers a faced all three of the London Bridge

terrorists during their rampage and tells the BBC how the Condon printed

-- confronted them armed only with a baton.

The Government is to rule later this morning on whether to give the green

light to Rupert Murdoch's proposed takeover of Sky.

Opponents say it will give him too much power in the media.

We can speak now to Rachel Cunliffe, who is comment and features editor

at City AM, a business newspaper 'with personality' it says

on its website; and Dr Evan Harris, joint chief executive

of the campaign group Hacked Off, an organisation that campaigns

for what it calls a 'free and accountable press'.

Rachel, what's going on? This is mostly about Rupert Murdoch trying

to grow his media empire and obtain full control over Sky. This is a

little bit confusing because Rupert Murdoch owns Fox, the company tried

to take over Sky but Sky is very much associated with the murder can

buy so he is very much on both sides. Fox owns 39% over Sky at the

moment and they are trying to obtain the other 61% of shares in a deal

worth ?11.7 billion. This has made a lot of people very upset. And here

is one of them. There are rules in this country that say broadcast

media is very sensitive because it reaches into people's houses and

therefore it not only ought to be able to reality, a range of views,

they must not be political control in this country like there is in the

United States. So we need to have that plurality, but share of

ownership. Many voices, in other words. BBC, ITV and the Sky,

separate from newspapers. Which we would still have if 21st-century Fox

took over the whole of Sky. The worry is if Sky News had the same

editorial line influenced indirectly by Rupert Murdoch, the owner of the

Sun newspaper, the Sunday Times and the Times, it's too much for

somebody who gets to meet Prime Minister whenever he wants.

Newspaper circulation is falling. It is growing online. The overall share

for those newspapers are still the highest and very high. That is your

main worry? That is not the main worry. I thought you might have

started with the main worry. The order in which Rachel raised it. The

main worry is whether James Murdoch is a fit and proper person for

corporate governance. Rupert Murdoch's son? Yes, he would be the

chairman of Sky and the 100% owner of Sky because he's the chief

executive of 21st-century Fox which would be the owning, holding

companies and he would be running it. Whether it is appropriate in

terms of corporate governance for somebody like him who is alleged to

have been involved in covering up extensive criminal wrongdoing at the

News of the World. Alleged. It is alleged. Innocent until proven

otherwise. Yes, we want the truth. You may remember and your viewers

will, the Leveson Inquiry was set up to look at this, one part was going

to get the truth, had to be delayed until after criminal trials, which

is right, you do not want it public and to make those trials unfair.

This Secretary of State sitting in judgment on this bid has delayed the

second part of that inquiry and has announced an intention to stop it

looking at whether there was a cover-up and whether it was police

corruption. It is astonishing that Secretary of State would on one side

of the bid... It feels like we have had dozens of inquiries... I don't

want to go over old ground. In terms of the Culture Secretary today,

Karen Bradley, the decision she makes is whether to give the

go-ahead to Rupert Murdoch and his takeover of the whole of Sky, or to

push it on for further investigation. Things she can do if

she decides not to wave it ahead. One of them as she can move it on to

the Competition and Markets Authority which will do an in-depth

investigation over six months, really looking into in particular

the media plurality issues and whether giving too much broadcasting

and media power to one company had one family is against the public

interest. The other thing that she could do which is less extreme than

that is say, yes, but with certain caveats, and those would include

things like spinning off Sky News and making sure that that keeps its

editorial integrity, which I think is very much an issue for British

viewers who don't want to see our broadcasters going down the route of

something like Fox News, which I think is very unpopular in Britain.

What does Hacked Off want? I think it's likely if Ofcom say there are

issues that she will say I am willing to accept undertakings,

promises from the Murdochs but I don't think they are worth the

tabloid newsprint they are written on. We cannot find a single example

of the Murdochs keeping to the promises they made. They promised

that the Times editor would be independent. We know that successive

editors have been sacked. They could be sanctions in place. They do not

appear to be. Rupert Murdoch has the ability to see a Prime Minister like

Theresa May whenever he wants in secret meetings. The Fox people have

met the Chancellor or Prime Minister ten times in just a short 15 month

period, more than any other private company. People can make up their

own minds. I'm not sure that is right. Had there not been this camp

done continuous campaign of support for this government by this

newspaper who knows what the result would have been. The concern is it

must be done properly and he seemed to be done properly and we need the

truth before these people are allowed more power. Thank you for

joining us. We will get the decision today. There you are. We will bring

you the statement on the news channel and we expect at 11:30am.

The first police officer to face all three London Bridge attackers

during their rampage has been speaking out.

PC Wayne Marques describes confronting them armed only

with a baton and how he tried to leave his last messages

This guy is on the floor, pleading for his life.

The first attacker, without any mercy, stands over him

I take my baton with my right hand, I rack it, full extension,

I take a deep breath, and I charge him.

I try to take the first one out in one go.

I swung as hard as I can, everything behind it.

I'm aiming straight for his head, and I'm swinging like that,

in horizontal motion, straight for his head.

Then, while I am fighting the first one, I get a massive whack

I thought maybe it was a metal pole or bar at first.

Afterwards, I realised it was a knife that the

As soon as I get the whack on the side of my head,

my right eye goes dark, vision goes completely out of it.

And I am staring at them with one eye, the baton in my hand,

and the three of them are staring at me.

And we are in like some kind of like Mexican stand-off,

it's almost like a surreal cowboy movie, getting ready to draw.

And I'm just getting ready for them to rush me.

We were staring at each other for anywhere between ten and 30 seconds.

I couldn't tell you why we were staring at each other.

Maybe they were waiting for me to go down or to bleed out.

But all I know is I was staring at them, I was going towards them

But for some reason, they didn't come to rush me.

The officer that's holding my hand, I call his name two, three times,

and he lowers the radio and comes in close.

I remember spitting it out, so I could get my message out.

I started giving him my last messages to my family, my partner.

He's like, "No, mate, you are going to do it yourself".

I said his name one more time and said, "Listen,

just do it, just do it, just give it".

And as I was saying that, the last little bit of light went,

But I still think about the eight people that I wasn't able to help.

Had I got there sooner, I don't know.

But I would just like to think that I did what I did to keep the people

that I saw being attacked and being hurt, keep them

alive, keep them out of danger as best I could.

PC Wayne Marques. Still to come in the next hour, we

get the reaction to the expected appointment of a retired Court of

Appeal judge to leave the public inquiry into the Grenfell fire. In a

few minutes the latest news and sport but the weather is next with

Sarah Keith-Lucas. We have lots of rain in the forecast

in the next 24 hours, we can have a break from watering the garden is in

the next couple of days as things look unsettled. We have some heavy

rain across parts of Scotland. This is the scene in Kingspan in Fife

coming in from one of our weather Watchers. We have persistent rain

and this radar picture shows the rain across Scotland and northern

England. It's not raining everywhere, we have some glimmers of

sunshine breaking through the cloud in Felixstowe in Suffolk will stop

here is how it is looking there. Some blue sky, a little sunshine but

across many parts of the country it's cloudy and pretty damp. Heavy

rain across the north-east of England into south-east Scotland,

difficult driving conditions with a lot of water and spray on the roads.

That rain will edge into northern Ireland with drizzling rain for

parts of Wales and south-west England. This is 4pm, mostly July,

still through parts of the Midlands, the south-east of England and East

Anglia. 19 or 20 degrees where you see brightness breaking through the

cloud, not much brightness further north, drizzling rain continuing for

Northern England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, not just the rain causing

problems but brisk winds from the north-east. With the wind and rain

it feels cool, just 13 or 14 degrees. Moving through into the

evening and overnight we will keep the rain over parts of Scotland,

northern England, Northern Ireland, Wales and south-west and it will

ease in intensity. The rain not as heavy overnight temperatures in

Glasgow, 13 degrees, not different from the daytime maximum

temperature. Through the day tomorrow a similar day, again quite

cloudy, drizzling rain across North and western parts of the country,

the format as heavy but we could see scattered showers developing towards

the south-east and perhaps the odd rumble of thunder. It looks like an

improving picture heading towards the weekend. We will start to see

this weather front moving south-east and a rich of high-pressure moving

in behind which will quieten things down. Perhaps some rain in the far

south-east at first on Saturday and a little rain in the far north-west

but for much of the country, not a bad day, temperatures up to 23

degrees where the sunnier spells and lighter winds during the weekend

too, that theme continuing into Sunday. Another largely dry day with

high-pressure, a few showers in the north-west, feeling pleasant,

temperatures around where they should be this time of year, 23

degrees. Hello, good morning. I'm Victoria

Derbyshire. Welcome to the programme.

A retired judge, Sir Martin Moore-Bick, will lead the inquiry

We'll ask if his appointment will lead to the survivors

and residents of North Kensington getting the answers they need.

When we're talking about this public inquiry, there's

This public inquiry has already started but we haven't even been

given the opportunity to come together as one yet.

We need and demand to be part of every single decision made

We've heard exclusively from the parents of a 21-year-old -

who became known as Jihadi Jack after travelling to Syria -

about their efforts to bring him home.

We thought now he'd finally made it out of ISIS-controlled territory

You can see the full version of the interview our programme page

And a baby boy was circumcised without his mother's consent -

She spent four years trying to get the authorities to take action, and

we will bring you her story. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. A retired Court of Appeal judge is

today expected to be appointed to lead the public enquiry into the

Grenfell Tower disaster. Sir Martin Moore Bic spent more than 20 years

as a commercial judge and that the Court of Appeal until his retirement

last year. The news came after police said at least 80 people were

now believed to have died in the top... Fire, but the final death

toll is not expected to be known until the end of the year.

Theresa May will face a major test of whether she has enough authority

to stay in power as MPs vote on the Queen's Speech later today.

With the support of the Democratic Unionists,

the Government is expected to pass its plans for the next

Parliament, after narrowly surviving a vote last night on changes

Jeremy Corbyn is calling on MPs to support his plans

Police in Australia have charged one of the most senior

Roman Catholic Cardinals, George Pell, with sexually

Cardinal Pell is in charge of the Vatican's finances

and is considered to rank third in the hierarchy of the church.

He is accused of multiple offences dating back

to the 1970s - charges he's strenuously denied.

I am looking forward finally to having my day in court.

The whole idea of sexual abuse is abhorrent to me.

Talks over resuming power-sharing at Stormont remain stalled,

with only hours to go until the deadline.

If no deal is reached to restore the devolved government

by 4pm this afternoon, Northern Ireland faces the prospect

It will be announced today whether 21st in the Fox, owned by Rupert

Murdoch, can be taken -- can take over Sky. Opponents say any deal

will give him too much power in the UK media.

A mother has described the distress of finding out her baby son had been

circumcised without her consent. She has tried to get the authorities to

take action for four years. The boy was circumcised in 2013 when he was

apparently staying with his paternal grandparents. Three people have been

arrested on suspicion of grievous bodily harm with intent. More on

this story shortly. Victoria will speak to a representative from the

campaign group Men Do Complain. . I'll be back at half past ten.

Let's get more from Hugh Woozencroft now at the BBC Sport Centre.

Warren Gatland has made several changes to his team ahead of the

second Test against New Zealand in Wellington on Saturday. He knows

that anything other than a win means they won't win this series. Sam

Warburton replaces Peter O'Mahoney in the back row. George Cruise drops

out altogether. Courtney Lawes is on the bench. Owen Farrell has a start

at inside centre, linking up with Jonny Sexton, who will start at

fly-half. They haven't started together, but they have had quite a

bit of time together. Their combination against the Crusaders

was good, and they had a bit of time together last week as well. It gives

us two more kicking options on the right foot. And we have left foot

options with Jonathan Davies and Elliot Daly as well. We are happy

with the mix. Dame Katherine Grainger will

officially become the new chair of UK Sport in July, but in her first

interview, she has told the BBC she has huge concerns over athlete

welfare, given the recent bullying accusations in several sports. There

are concerns, without a doubt. I don't think anyone is pretending

that aren't. I think we have to address it. Everyone is under

pressure, so athletes want to deliver, coaches are under pressure,

performance executives and chief executives. There is a situation of,

how good can we be and how many medals can we deliver? And the

future of our sport is dependent on this.

Jade Jones is on course to win an impressive career grand slam of

titles in tae kwon do. She got into the semifinals in South Korea. That

guarantees are at least a bronze. She has never won a gold before in

the competition. Her team-mates, Bradley Sinden, is also guaranteed

at least bronze. I am buzzing with my performance. It was a real mental

battle today. I think people don't realise how hard it is, being on the

top, and then people say, you always go out in the quarters. It is hard,

being expected to be performed, and I am just happy that it shows that

when my mind is on it I can be mentally strong.

Leading jockey Michelle Payne has been banned for four weeks for

taking a banned substance. She is the only female jockey to win the

prestigious Melbourne cup, and she took a weight suppressant. She

pleaded guilty at her enquiry and said she took full responsibility

for her actions. That is all for now, more later in the hour.

A retired high court judge has been appointed to lead the inquiry

into the Grenfell Tower fire - and he's making the headlines

already because of what the Times calls his controversial record

We'll bring you some facts about him in a moment.

Yesterday in our programme back in North Kensington some

Grenfell Tower survivors and residents talked

about their faith in the forthcoming inquiry.

And what needed to be change when it came to listening to their views.

You talk about trust and trying to rebuild trust, and the importance of

that. These people wrote to the Prime Minister the day before

yesterday to ask and make requests about the public enquiry. The Prime

Minister didn't reply to that letter. The Prime Minister went to

the daily Telegraph and told them she wasn't going to uphold one of

the requests in that letter, so how can you talk about trust being

rebuilt? Were talking about written, a powerful country, here. We're

talking about the law. That has to be changed right now. Procedure has

to be changed right now. This is not going to take a few shows or

meetings, this is years of work. This is years of work. I'm told the

housing minister is here, and he has agreed to be with us today after

pressure from residents, so I know you have questions for him. Hello.

Hi, I'm Victoria. Take a seat. Thank you very much for giving us your

time. Please, stop hiding from us. It is international now. Stop

hiding. I want everything in the table, black and white. -- on the

table. There are moves already being made, public all right -- the public

enquiry has already started, and we need and demand to be part of every

single decision made in that public enquiry.

It is worth letting you know that the housing minister who was sent to

our programme after an earlier decision that no one would be

available, he spent many hours talking to residents in private

after our programme came off air. So what do we know about the retired

appeal court judge who's been chosen to lead the public inquiry

into the Grenfell disaster? Sir Martin Moore-Bick,

who's 70, was born in Wales He specialised in commercial law

before spending more than twenty years as a judge at the high court

and the court of appeal. to rehouse a single mother of five,

living with HIV and diabetes, some At the time her lawyer described

the decision as "social The ruling was later overturned

by the Supreme Court. He also ruled that a Chinese-born

man who tied up and robbed two women in their home could be deported,

even though he had Married with four children,

his brother is retired Army Who's Who lists his

interests as "early music, Clive Coleman explained the

significance of the appointment. He has a classic CV of a successful

Court of Appeal judge. He was called to the bar in 1986, served as a

deputy High Court judge and was then a High Court judge, serving mainly

in the commercial Court, meaning he dealt with technical engineering

evidence in many cases, which is a qualification for Grenfell. He was

appointed to the Court of Appeal in 2005 and retired last year. For the

last two years of that period he was vice president of the Court of

Appeal's civil division. He is married with children and is an

establishment figure, and his brother is a retired general. Why is

he described in one newspaper today as controversial? He went to the

Court of Appeal in 2005, and he left last year, so he was there for 11

years or so. This morning in the newspapers, one of his cases has

been picked up, a case in 2014 where he oversaw a ruling where a woman

who lived in Westminster, a single mother with five children, was

rehoused by the council some 50 miles away, in Bletchley near Milton

Keynes. She disputed that decision, said it was a new -- unlawful. When

it got to the Court of Appeal, he had to scrutinise whether the

decision taken by Westminster Council, and councils can rehouse

people out of area in certain circumstances, was lawful, and he

decided it was. The reason the case is being looked at is an

illustration or perhaps some controversy. Some people are nodding

at that as perhaps a perceived bias against vulnerable families.

Everyone I have spoken to has said, look at the entire career. This was

one decision where he was applying the law. After the case, the

solicitor said: The judgment could have dire consequences for

vulnerable families across the country. He said, it gives the green

light for councils to engage in social cleansing of the poor on a

mass scale. When you have comments like that, you can see why some

people would think that is a controversial judge in relation to

this particular enquiry. What about the terms of reference of the

enquiry - who decides that? It will be decided by the Government. Let me

say why I think they have picked this particular judge. First, he has

been in the commercial court. As a barrister, he was involved in

shipping cases where he would have had to deal with complex engineering

matters - wire ship sank, for instance. Although they are

different in nature, they are similar in terms of complexity, and

you need a judge you can get their head around that. You also need a

judge who will be good in communicating with the families,

empathetic. Heather Hallett got a lot of plaudits for how she handled

the 7/7 enquiry because of her emotional intelligence, if you like,

and how she dealt sensitively with the issues and the families, and you

need that as well. I have spoken to friends, lawyers who know Martin

Moore Bick, and they say he is a person of unfailing courtesy, and

one who will listen, and he will change his mind if he finds evidence

that the decision he has taken is the wrong one.

We can speak to Jo Maugham QC, a barrister and director

of the Good Law Project, who has been providing free

legal support for victims of the fire since last week.

Hello to you. Have you heard of Sir Martin Moore pick, and if you

haven't, does it matter? It doesn't matter. The Government is fishing in

a very shallow pool of candidates. They are all white and come from

privileged backgrounds. Judicial diversity is fundamentally

nonexistent, so the Government in circumstances like this has to

communicate to victims at Grenfell why it has chosen this particular

person. If you are a victim, you want to hear from the Government

what question they have asked that has Sir Martin as the answer. You

can't take too much from focusing on particular decisions that a judge

has made, looked at in isolation. We don't know about other cases where

Sir Martin may have decided and they were favourable to those who would

seek rehousing. I am distracted, there is a fire alarm. I can hear

that. Where are you? I am in a studio at Millbank. If you want to

leave, please do. I think it has stopped. On our programme yesterday,

we heard a lot about trust, this trust and a lack of faith in the

establishment, from politicians right through. Some kind of

Government statement, then, which is what you have suggested, would seem

to be the least that should be done here to explain this decision.

I think that's right. I think what people want is to be heard, your

viewers will have heard that from the clips played just before I came

on air. People will want to feel they are involved in the process. Is

there going to be discussion on the Grenfell community leaders about the

nature of reference, are the residents of Grenfell Tower, family

members of the victims of the disaster going to be consulted on

the choice of barrister who represents families and victims in

the inquiry? Is government really going to think about the

difficulties that families of Grenfell face in trusting an

establishment that we know has let them down? That is fundamentally the

problem. What you've got a hope is the government really focuses on

that. These inquiries that have the capacity to heal also have the

capacity to exacerbate harm and distrust. I desperately hope that is

not what happens here. Briefly, tell us about some of the com obviously

without giving private details, but some of the areas you are helping

local people with. The particular issue I have been focused on is

helping in particular Muslim families recover the bodies of

family members who died in the tragedy. The police have been

conducting, quite properly, a very careful and methodical exercise in

trying to establish exactly what happened. But particularly if you

are a Muslim family or a Jewish family, it's important to get the

remains backwardly. I'm not always convinced the police have been

holding those two issues in proper balance. So, certainly over the

weekend I threatened the Metropolitan Police with court

proceedings and that caused the police to release a body that they

had previously said was not available on the Monday and I am now

working with another family in relation to a very similar case. So

that threat of court proceedings led to the outcome that your family

needed? That's certainly what the family

think and for what it's worth it's what I think is well. Thank you very

much. Jo Maugham, QC, who is a barrister and director of The Good

Law Project. I think it has just been confirmed,

bear with me, I am just getting on my tablet, that Sir Martin

Moore-Bick is going to lead this public inquiry. Theresa May Justin

-- just confirmed it, it will be led by Martin Moore-Bick. Adding, we

must get to the truth of what happened, no stone will be left

unturned by this inquiry. Theresa May says we must get to the truth of

what happened, no stone will be left unturned by this inquiry Hachette

confirms the employment of the retired judge Sir Martin Moore-Bick

to lead the investigation. Mother talks of the dramatic moment

she discovered her baby son had been circumcised without her consent. We

will bring you this story. A court ruling is due

in Northern Ireland this morning Unlike the rest of the UK abortion

is illegal in almost all circumstance in Northern

Ireland. Campaigners hope the ruling will be

a step towards changing the law so women can have abortions in cases

of rape, incest or fatal What's the law in Northern

Ireland at the moment? Like you said, the law in Northern

Ireland is completely different from the rest of the UK, much stricter,

abortion is illegal in all most all circumstances the only time it is

possible this when a woman's life is at risk or there is a serious or

permanent risk to her mental or physical health. That means every

year hundreds of women travel from Northern Ireland over to other parts

of the UK to access abortion services. That costs them money,

they have to pay to travel and pay for the abortion services.

Campaigners argue that means that the very poorest women in Northern

Ireland can't get abortions. Someone women risked prosecution by taking

abortion pills. Just last week a cross-party group of MPs called on

the UK Government to allow women from Northern Ireland to access

abortion care in England and Wales. Faces an Appeal Court case, an

Appeal Court judgment that we are waiting for, and it concerns

abortions in circumstances of incest, rape and fatal foetal

abnormality, where a baby will not survive outside pregnancy. This is

an Appeal Court judgment because in 2015 the High Court ruled that

abortion laws in Northern Ireland do breach women's human rights, and the

judge said they should be allowed in the circumstances. But that was

appealed and today we are waiting for the Appeal Court judgment. I've

been in Belfast and met a woman at the centre of the case. She is

called Sarah and it was the circumstances of her pregnancy that

meant she became involved in this court case.

I'm Catrin. Nice to meet you.

It was just a few weeks after Sarah Ewart's wedding

It was all planned and she was delighted.

Everybody had talked about the 3D scans and we thought, we want to see

It was private, it wasn't at our hospital.

The sonographer had put the baby on the

screen, she had started on the feet, legs, oh, you're having a wee

girl, then she went up the body and when she got

there was nothing from above the baby's eyes, basically.

There was no skull or brain formation.

Sarah's baby had anencephaly which occurs in about six

There is no treatment and babies with it die

before they're born or shortly after birth.

The skull wasn't formed. There was nothing above that.

So the baby wasn't going to be able to survive.

As soon as it was cut from me, when the umbilical cord was cut,

that's when baby would have passed away.

When I realised the baby wasn't going to survive and how

bad the condition was, I thought that I couldn't

continue on for nine months, people asking me, when are

To not have a baby at the end of it, I just felt like I couldn't go

We didn't call it an abortion, we said we wanted a medical

And they said, sorry, we can't help you.

We were like, what do you mean you can't help?

They said, sorry, with the law here, we

You'd have to go abroad, you know, go across the water.

Unlike the rest of the UK, abortion is illegal here in

Northern Ireland in almost all circumstances.

That meant that at 21 weeks pregnant, Sarah had to travel

It's that experience that means she's

What was the experience like, making that

I should have been at home with my family around me, my friends

What do you want to see from this court case?

Well, politicians failed to help us and women like me,

so we're hoping that we'll get the help

Earlier I spoke to Grainne Teggart from Amnesty Northern Ireland,

We want the court today to find that our abortion laws in Northern

It's unfortunate and deeply regrettable,

and also unacceptable that our politicians have failed

to grapple with this issue and legislate for

much and long overdue reform of our abortion laws.

The court today, we're hoping, will agree that our laws

breach women's rights, and then we will be

calling on our government to

urgently reform our laws and bring them in line with international

But if the public really want a change in

But if the public really wanted change,

Northern Ireland politicians would have delivered that

Successive opinion polls have clearly demonstrated that

overwhelmingly the Northern Ireland public is behind reform of our

Our politicians now need to reflect their constituents'

views on this matter and bring our abortion laws

Many people who believe what you are arguing in court today

is wrong think that if the court agrees to

abortion in the particular circumstances that

then that will lead you to continue with

abortion laws further in Northern Ireland.

Abortion is a health care and human rights issue.

Our laws need to respect and promote women's

rights and also ensure that they

have timely, free, safe and legal access to abortions when

So that sounds like if you are successful today, then your campaign

to get the law changed further continues.

Amnesty is campaigning for abortion to be

Abortion is a health care and human rights issue.

It should not be dealt with through the criminal justice

system the way our laws currently are.

What is the punishment in Northern Ireland for an

Abortion in Northern Ireland is illegal in almost every

circumstance, and also carries the harshest criminal

It means that for a woman seeking an abortion in circumstances

outside of where her life or long-term physical and

mental health are at risk, it carries a sentence of life

Amnesty is working on this case today, but we're also

working with a mother who procured abortion

pills for her daughter and

of the Public Prosecution Service to challenge the decision

Grainne Teggart from Amnesty Northern Ireland. We will bring you

the decision when it comes through. I want to bring some comments on the

British Transport Police officer who confronted the terrorists at London

Bridge. David texted to say colon when you see this movie interview

with PC Wayne Marques who put his life on the line to save members of

the public, he not only deserves a pay rise but in my view should also

be awarded the Victoria Cross. Lynn says praise the public services to

the hilt but don't give them a decent pay rise after seven years?

It is beyond belief. Sonia said: so proud of this British Transport

Police officer. Does he not deserve a pay rise? Thank you for those,

keep them coming in. Still to come as the Defence

Secretary says IS could be facing the endgame in the battle for Mosul,

we will talk about what the result means for the future of what has

been called the evil death cult. We will find out what the National

crime agencies worried about the influence that island gangs from

Albania have over the UK drugs trafficking market.

It is nearly 10:30am. The latest news headlines.

A retired Court of Appeal judge is today expected to be appointed

to lead the public inquiry into the Grenfell Tower disaster.

Sir Martin Moore-Bick spent more than 20 years as a judge

of the Commercial Court and Court of Appeal until his

At least 80 people are now believed to have died in the fire,

but police say the final number of dead won't be known until the end

Theresa May will face a major test of whether she has enough authority

to stay in power as MPs vote on the Queen's speech later today. With the

support of the Democratic Unionists the government is expected to pass

its plans for the next parliament after narrowly surviving a vote last

night on changes to public sector pay. Jeremy Corbyn is calling on MPs

to support his plans for the economy and on Brexit.

Police in Australia have charged one of the most senior Roman Catholic

cardinals George Pell with sexually abusing children. Cardinal Pell is

in charge of the Vatican's finances and is considered to rank third in

the hierarchy of the Church. He is accused of multiple offences dating

back to the 1970s. Charges he strenuously denies. Talks over

resuming power-sharing at Stormont remain stalled with only hours to go

until the deadline. If no deal is reached to restore the devolved

government by 4pm this afternoon Northern Ireland faces the prospect

of direct rule from London. The National Crime Agency says it is

increasingly concerned about the influence criminals from the

Balkans, particularly violent gangs from Albania, have over the UK drug

trafficking market. In its annual assessment

on organised crime, the NCA says corrupt workers at ports

and airports make it easier It also warns about the threat

of cyber-crime from Join me for BBC Newsroom

Live at 11 o'clock. Hugh is here with the sport.

Warren Gatland has said he has had to make tough calls. They are

looking for a lifeline against New Zealand, trailing the series. Owen

Farrell starts at inside centre, meaning he will team up with Johnny

Sexton, who has been named as fly half.

Michelle Payne, the only female jockey to win the Melbourne cup, has

been banned after testing positive for a banned substance.

Jade Jones reach the world tae kwon do semifinals in Korea. That

guarantees her at least a bronze. Dame Katherine Grainger, the

incoming chair of UK Sport says she has huge concerns about athlete

welfare, given the number of sporting bodies under the cloud of

bullying allegations. That is all the sport for this morning,

Victoria. More during newsroom live after 11am.

Violent Albanian criminal gangs now have "considerable control" over

UK drug trafficking, the National Crime Agency says.

It's increasingly worried at the Albanians' high-profile

It is a group that is small in number but big an impact. We have

seen the emergence of violence, particularly around enforcing the

drug trade in this group, and hence, we have a specific response with

partners where we try the best we can to disrupt that. We have cases

going through the courts, but it was the rise in violence that caused the

most concern. Our home affairs correspondent

Danny Shaw is here. Substantial profits can still be

made by the groups who are marketing, selling and producing

drugs. What the National Crime Agency I think is concerned about is

this rise of Albanian gangsters into the scene, who are having a

significant impact on the UK market. There are not great numbers of them,

but they are having a disproportionate effect because of

the propensity to use violence, guns and knives, to exert a grip on their

part of the market. We have seen other groups as well, traditionally

Turkish and Serbian groups controlling the heroin market, and

also Lithuanian gangsters in terms of organised crime as well, but I

think it is the Albanians that the NCA wants to focus on. Are they

warning us to watch out? Who is the warning for? Or just let us know

they have a really hard job? It is part of the annual assessment of the

picture of organised crime, and it is one of the things that they are

flagging up. It is not for us to tackle Albanian gangsters, but it is

something that law enforcement should be aware of, and it tells us

about the overall picture, the fact that you have disparate groups

coming in wrestling for control of the drugs market is one of the parts

of that picture, if you like. What else does the report talk about? It

covers everything from firearms to fraud, but one thing that stands out

from me -- for me is the threat of corruption at the border by corrupt

border staff, ferry workers, people working in courier companies. If you

have people on the inside who are helping to facilitate the supply of

drugs and also people smugglers, that creates huge problems for the

authorities because it makes it easy for the gangsters to get stuff in,

and that has been flagged by the NCA in this report. Thank you very much,

Danny. A young man from Britain who

travelled to Syria in 2014 says he is being held by Syrian forces. Jack

Letts, dubbed jihadis Jack, has now left that area, he says. His

parents, who had pleaded not guilty to charges of funding terrorism

after trying to send cash to their son, have called on the British

authorities to do what they can to help. We spoke to them recently, and

they told us about the last time they spoke to their son. I was

screaming at him on the phone, how could he be so utterly stupid? The

line went dead, and then he didn't contact us again for another three

weeks. And in those three weeks, we spent every single minute trying to

contact whoever we could, trying to get help. So, everybody from

journalists to charities, to Prevent organisations, youth workers who

work with Prevent, and we did our own reading about who he could

possibly be with. At some point, you sent him money. We tried to. But it

was blocked by the police. You try to send ?1700 or something? We tried

to send money, Edgar blocked, tried again and it got blocked, so the

total sum we tried to sent was that. And then we were charged with the

offence. -- it got blocked. What happens to you both after being

arrested? There was a period before the CPS decided whether wood with --

whether we would be charged or not. We were refused bail at the

magistrates court and sent on remand for five days, but that got

overturned on appeal. Since the arrest, what has been the impact on

your lives? Clearly, five days in jail is not what you would have

wanted, necessarily. What was that like? After we were arrested, we had

to sign in at a police station every day, then we had a curfew from

midnight till 6am. Every time the doorbell rings, it is the police, a

journalist or somebody. That has been really difficult, very

stressful. And how has your son reacted too, because of his actions,

what has happened to you in the meantime? We haven't been able to

talk to him too much about that. We would need to see him face-to-face.

I think he doesn't like the idea. The idea of what? When he was inside

he could not speak openly. But he has been out for a while. I think he

thinks that horrible in the system shouldn't be doing that to us. The

system? What about what he has done and its impact on both of you? It

has been horrible. Is he sad about that? Has he shown remorse? I think

I would like him to sit here and you can ask in himself, but I'm sure he

does, to a degree. I don't know how to answer because I haven't had that

extended discussion. I think he is upset by that, but he is motivated

by his own internal things. He's a 21-year-old, you know, quite

confident, aggregate, pig-headed lad, of which there are many. And on

a phone call on a crackly line, it is difficult to have an in-depth

conversation about how upset his parents are. -- arrogant. How did

you feel when he said he hated you, his parents, for the sake of Allah,

because you were non-believers, and called on you to convert to Islam?

Yes, I thought about that. I haven't tackled him directly about it. A lot

of the strange thing is that Jack has said in interviews or sometimes

on Facebook, sometimes we have wondered, is he being forced to say

these things? Is he in a situation where people are overhearing what

he's saying and he has to, in order to kind of save his life, he has to

sort of say certain things? And you could... Sometimes he would write

messages that he wouldn't say out loud. He would say certain things

out loud that sounded strange. He is an internet cafe, being of a head,

and he has to say these things. And what he really thought he would send

in a text message during the same conversation. A lot of the religious

things he said would be said out loud. He narrowly survived an air

strike, with just a scratch. EZ, I am not scared or worried. Everyone

will die on their day. A Muslim understands that his life is between

the hands of Allah, so if they want to bomb me, they will bomb me.

Christians have said this a message. What you think about the fact he was

nearly killed? It is terrifying. You're waiting for a phone call

every day to say that your son has been killed. Our home affairs

correspondent has been in touch with your son and reports that it appears

Jack has little desire to come back to the UK. Yes. And he has said all

along that he wants to get out of where he is, we want to get into a

safe place. We would like him to come back to the UK, but I don't

think he would be happy here. I think he wants to live in an Islamic

country. He has been told where he is being held at the moment that he

would be released to the British, so I think he has resigned himself to

the fact that he will come back here for questioning. And I think ideally

that would happen, he would be able to tell his side of the story. He

wouldn't be on the run for the rest of his life. And then, once he has

cleared his name, then he can live his life as he chooses, probably in

his mind in an Islamic country. Sally and John Letts. The foreign

office says the UK advises against all travel to Syria and parts of

Iraq. So-called Islamic State,

also known as Daesh, once controlled an area of territory

as big as the United Kingdom Since their emergence in 2014,

Islamic State's brutality has outraged the world,

and concerted attempts have been made by the US, British,

Russian and Iraqi militaries amongst As a result, their territory has

shrunk dramatically. Now, three years to the day since

the 'caliphate' was first declared, one of the largest cities held

by IS - Mosul in Iraq - might be about to finally fall

to the Iraqi security forces. Although I do feel like we have been

saying that for a few weeks now. What could this mean for the future

of the so called Islamic State? Karen von Hippel is the head of the

think tank the Royal United services Institute. Patrick has written

extensively on the caliphate. And in Baghdad, we have Bruno, the UNHCR

representative in Iraq. Welcome to all of you. Why have Islamic State

been so successful, Patrick, in holding territory in recent years?

Well, they are monsters of cruelty. They are extremely fanatical, but

they are also, unfortunately, militarily pretty expert and

experienced. So, they fight very hard. And they have fought very hard

for Mosul. This siege has gone on for 254 days. And they are still

fighting there. But they will ultimately lose it. It will be a

very serious defeat for them, but it won't entirely put them out of

business. That is my next question, to you, Karen, strategically, if/

when they lose Mosul, what does that mean for them across the region?