03/07/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello - it's Monday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

Our top story today - Theresa May is under increasing

pressure to scrap the public sector pay cap, which means teachers,

nurses, fire fighters and prison officers have seen their pay capped

I think that we should listen to the pay review bodies who govern each

individual area public sector pay. Also on the programme -

survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire tell this programme

of the devastating impact it's had on their mental health,

and the lack of the support they're I feel like when you... We have to

switch the TV on, so we can see the light when you're sleeping, so you

don't have to keep thinking about that little boy who died in your

room, or his mum. Over the next couple of years we will have a major

entry programme, so we will be reaching out to absolutely everyone

in the area. Plus - we've learnt that girls

as young as nine are seeking surgery on their vagina because they

are distressed by its appearance. Some critics say it is similar to

FGM, but not everyone agrees. Female genital mutilation is clearly not a

procedure that we can support in any way, shape or form. To even use it

in the same sentence as Libya plaster surgery is not only

unhelpful, but it is unfair. -- labia plaster surgery. The law is

very clear. I see it is the same thing. We should not be mutilating

bodies for cultural reasons. Our full exclusive reporter

after half nine this morning. Hello, welcome to the programme -

we're live until 11. Throughout the morning,

the latest breaking news A little later in the

programme we'll hear from a woman called "Laura,"

who was a victim of the Rochdale paedophile and grooming ring

from the age of 13 until she was 17. She has never spoken publicly

about her story before, but tells us how she believes she's

been repeatedly let down by police. Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag Victoria Live,

and if you text, you will be charged Our top story today - the Foreign

Secretary's added his voice to the growing calls

from within the Cabinet for Theresa May to lift

the 1% cap on pay rises The limit is due to be

in place until 2020. But a Government source said

Boris Johnson "strongly" believed pay rises could be achieved

without putting undue pressure Let's speak to our poltical

guru Norman Smith. Holeable, Norman. Michael Gove said

this could be done without necessarily raising taxes, -- hello,

Norman. Boris Johnson has said something similar. How do they think

it could be done? They have not actually said how it could be done,

which I imagine is what the Chancellor is thinking. Namely, it

is all very well to call for an end to the public sector pay cap, but

how will you pay for? The Institute for Fiscal Studies said it would

cost around ?6 billion to end the pay gap, saw an awful lot of money,

but thankfully all the -- actually all the signs are it is hard to see

how the Government can stand by it. We have had six Cabinet ministers

either publicly themselves or through sources saying basically

they think the public sector pay cap should go. Downing Street meanwhile

have been sending out rather conflicting messages. They certainly

don't seem to be raining in any of these ministers, so when you put all

that together it would seem to me, if you are in a pay review body,

you're going to take the comments of the likes of Boris Johnson, Michael

Fallon and others as a green light to go above the 1% pay cap, and bear

in mind already last year when the teachers' pay review body reported,

they said there should be a significant rise above the 1%

threshold. The NHS pay review body said they didn't think the 1% cap

was sustainable, so when they hear ministers saying, you know what,

maybe public sector workers should have more, the chances are when

report this time they will be recommending increases significantly

above the 1% pay cap. Thank you very much, Norman. Much more on this to

come. Wherever you work, public sector, private sector, should the

Government gets the 1% pay cap, and if so how should any pay rises be

paid for? Where will you get the money from? You Chancellor for the

morning. Annita McVeigh is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary For the first time in nearly

a decade, more nurses and midwives are leaving the profession in the UK

than joining it. The Nursing and Midwifery Council

says working conditions, workload and poor pay are some

of the reasons given. For years, the numbers registering

to work as nurses and midwives have been going in one

direction - up. And, with increasing demands

on our health service, These latest figures showing more

staff leaving than joining should, according to the healthcare union

Unison, ring alarm bells with the Government,

and could signal a staffing crisis. Between last March and this,

the numbers on the register Over the following two months,

there was a more dramatic move, the number going down

again by more than 3000. It is only a small proportion

of the total number of nurses registered,

but it is the significance of the downward trend

which is causing concern. There is great demand for the right

standards of care to be If the numbers continue to fall,

then clearly some action needs to be In a survey of staff who had left,

for those not retiring the biggest factors were working

conditions and disillusionment with the quality of care

provided to patients. The highest proportion of leavers

were British nurses. Of EU nurses surveyed,

a third quoted Brexit In a statement, the Department

of Health said it has launched a national programme to ensure

nurses have the support they need This programme has learned girls

as young as nine are seeking surgery on their vagina

because they are distressed Doctors say they're seeing more

and more young teenagers who are very distressed with how

this part of their body looks - even though they have no

medical need for surgery. Labiaplasty is an operation

which is not recommended for those under the age of 18 because the body

has not finished developing. We shouldn't be performing

operations and surgery which is irreversible on developing

bodies for cultural reasons. The Western culture,

the current culture, is to have very small labia minora,

for them to be The regulator Ofcom this says they

are consulting at on how to make energy bills more affordable and

easier to switch for the people on lower incomes.

Police are continuing to question a man after a 16-year-old girl

was killed and six other teenagers injured when a car crashed

The man - who's in his 30s - is being questioned on suspicion

of causing death by dangerous driving after the incident

in Croydon in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Several people are feared dead after a tour bus crashed and rushed into

flames when it collided with a lorry in Bavaria in southern Germany close

to the town of Stammbach. They say 17 people are unaccounted for and

may not have made it out of the coach. A number of flights from

Gatwick Airport were redirected yesterday after reports of a drone

flying outside the airport. The flight had to circle the airport as

a precaution. Sussex Police are investigating.

The Northern Ireland Secretary, James Brokenshire, will make

a Commons statement later about talks to restore power

The latest legal deadline for the negotiations

passed on Thursday - but he allowed the talks

between the DUP and Sinn Fein to continue after the negotiating

The public enquiry into decades of historical child abuse

in Jersey will report its findings later today.

More than 600 witnesses have given evidence

about abuse in children's homes and in foster care.

Police recorded more than 500 alleged offences -

of which 315 were said to have been committed at the Haute de la

President Trump has been accused of inciting violence

against journalists, after he tweeted a spoof video

showing him assaulting a man with a CNN logo super-imposed

In the wrestling video, he's shown punching the CNN

The President regularly accuses CNN and other media

outlets of broadcasting what he calls, "fake news."

It's been retweeted more than 250,000 times.

Two people have miraculously walked away with just minor injuries -

after their supercar crashed into the side of a house

These images were taken by fire crews at the crash site

It's understood it was a McClaren sports car which ploughed into this

No one who lived in the house was injured either.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

Thank you. Bank of England workers are going to stage a four day

straight from the end of July, Justin, in a dispute over pay,

according to the union Unite. So people at the bank are to stage four

they strike from July the 31st in the dispute over pay. Olly Foster is

here for the sport. Good morning. The gates open in the

next hour or so at the Wimbledon Club. Defending champion Andy Murray

has declared himself fit. He has had this hip problem and is very short

on matches on grass in the build-up, but the number one says he should be

OK to go the distance. He is first up on Centre Court at one o'clock,

playing the world number 134 from Kazakhstan. It has been a pretty

similar story for the British number one Johanna Konta over the past

week, after that heavy fall in the Eastbourne quarterfinal. She hurt

her back but she says she has fully recovered. She is seeded sixth at

Wimbledon and is up in the number one Court against the Taiwanese

player. And the tour champion Chris Froome also went down in this nasty

pile-up yesterday. He is sixth overall as the tour heads into

France from Belgium today. The Open starts in just over 12 weeks and

Tommy Fleetwood is hitting form at the right time, the enlistment who

came fourth in the US open last month won the French Open yesterday.

This year it is at Royal Birkdale which just happens to be in Tommy

Fleetwood's hometown of Southport. I will be back with a full update at

ten o'clock but I know that you, Victoria, will be going live to

Wimbledon in the next 20 minutes or so. Yes, we will.

But this morning we'll start the programme with the latest

Nearly three weeks on and those who escaped have been telling us

about the devastating impact of the fire on their mental health

and they say they're not getting the support they need

Our reporter Chloe Tilley has been to meet one of the survivors

of the fire who doesn't feel she's received the mental

Rashida didn't want to show her face as she says some people are getting

Rashida lived on the 15th floor of the Grenfell Tower.

Her home has been destroyed, along with all of her possessions.

For now a hotel is where she is living with

The few belongings she has been donated by the community.

This is what people bring as - everything is a start from scratch.

On the night of the fire, Rashida carried her daughter in her arms,

Only when she got outside and saw the

flames engulfing the building did she understand what was happening.

Her husband Sid also escaped, but was taken to hospital.

He's spoken to our programme about his frustration and anger at

the authorities over the weight they are

treating survivors of the

They compare us to Syria or Iran or Iraq.

We're talking about a powerful country here.

For Rashida, however, she isn't angry - she is

struggling to cope with what she's experienced.

It's very exhausting and it's very sad and it's very

It's like me now - I feel like I don't have

an identity, like I'm starting again.

It's like we have to go and find out how everyday and go and see

what's going on because we don't know nothing.

No one's coming, no one's telling us anything.

The first week I couldn't sleep because every time

I moved, I saw one of the people's faces, like the kids.

It's like a movie is going in my eyes.

And is that still hard for you to sleep?

I'm talking now, the pictures coming now.

One of the ways Rashida is dealing with her

grief is to each day visit the site of the burnt

I'm struck, speaking to survivors of Grenfell Tower, with a

deep sense of mistrust, mistrust of the authorities,

of the media, lots of people saying they didn't want to

But what they did say was that they need mental

health support but don't know how to access the services - the services

are there but they have to seek them out and one

man even said he had to raise his voice to a social

worker for his fiancee to get mental health support that very day.

Rashida is one of many survivors who tells us

We brought together with Linda from the Good

Grief Trust, and Ross O'Brien who is leading the NHS mental health

response to the fire, and they talked in her hotel room.

I'm just holding on, to be strong for my daughter and my family.

I need mental help, I need medical help, I

People coming, looking to help but they

were standing there with no information, they were trying to

reach two people and I didn't know they are here for us, to help us.

This is what we've really struggled with from the start.

We had some information about people who are out

of there but not all of the information.

So we've reached out to the people we know about but people

like yourselves and a host of others that we don't have information

about, we've tried to reach out but being at the hotels, we've gone door

to door in the surrounding area of the tower, and the further

surrounding areas as well, we are working with the Red Cross and with

local volunteers from the community to cope,

we are calling all the

mobile numbers but obviously if people are being displaced...

Because we lost everything in the fire.

We had to wait for more than a week to

We've been given a temporary smartphone and it was a new number,

and we had to give that number to everyone but it wasn't easy, you

know, people coming, taking our numbers, saying

Where did you sleep in those first nights?

Your husband was in hospital and your daughter...

I was walking around for two days, and I felt, my feeling was numb.

I have a lot of friends in the area, all night and they all came

looking for me and my family, they've been crying for days.

Every time they see me they had me and cry.

You've obviously got to look after the

survivors but also the wider communities.

What we will be doing over the next months and

years is, will have a major programme, reaching out to

absolutely everyone in the area from firefighters, front

line emergency services, volunteers, community

organisations, schools, teachers, and the community themselves then

will mobilise support so that people can have ongoing treatment and

support through what will be a really tough time.

We are the main ones who went through the fire but I

think all the community will need help.

If you live near Grenfell Tower and you've been affected by the fire

The number to call for mental health support is 0800 023 4650.

We can speak now to Daniel Moylan, a Conservative councllor and former

deputy leader at Kensington and Chelsea Council,

and Richard Burgon, Labour's spokesperson on justice.

Mr Moylan, the council leader resigned for perceived failings, he

said. Are they perceived or real? There were real failings in handling

the aftermath of the fire. Whether there were failings before that in

the past is the subject of an inquiry and criminal investigations.

But there were real failings in the handling of the fire. The council

was overwhelmed. That's almost forgivable because of the scale of

the disaster, what was not forgivable was failing to regular

news that, failing to call for help and take up the offers of help and

bring people in. Why do you think Mr Paget-Brown couldn't accept that he

had failed and the council which he ran failed? I'm note going to

comment on what goes on in other people's iedth heads. You know the

man. But for the council to go forward as a body and have a if you

her, it has to start from a position of acknowledging that something has

happened for which we need to apologise. Almost more than

apologise, we have to have a new relationship with the people

affected. We need to start that very, very quickly if we are to

survive. I think commissioners coming in to run the council would

be a bad move but it may actually have to happen. I think one of the

reasons it would be a bad move is that it would remove councillors,

including Labour councillors who represent the people in North

Kensington and who've been doing work as their voice. I notice that

although Sadiq Khan has a view on this, the view of the Labour Leader

in Kensington is to give a very short lead time for the Conservative

group and the council to sort itself out. Before he calls for

commissioners, that is what he has said. I think that is the right

balance on that question. OK. The Monday after the fire, Nick

Paget-Brown offered his resignation but you and his colleagues wouldn't

accept it? I ensured... I believe the Cabinet unanimously asked him to

stay when the wider Conservative group was asked, it was not

unanimous. I wouldn't give me ascent to that. On Friday last week,

completely exasperated, I went on television and said at lunch time

that I thought he should resign and he should have resigned a week

earlier. Clearly he should have done and it would have been better all

round. What do you need to do now? You have talked about trying to

build trust with residents. What do you need to do in practical terms in

terms of helping? In practical terms, we have to show that we can

elect a leader who represents a genuine break with the past... That

wouldn't be the prior residents? Of course not, I completely understand

that. In practical terms, there's been a much better coordinated

effort since the other London local authorities and the Government came

in to put the resources behind it. You have illustrated some failings

this morning. There are still things going wrong. Mental health - can

people access the services, the services are there. Computers

churning out rent demands because nobody's thought to stop them, that

sort of thing, you know, has been addressed and needs to be addressed,

so it's by no means perfect. The key thing that needs to be done in the

first instance, but it will take some weeks I think, is to find a

permanent proper home for the people who've been displaced so that they

can move out of hotel accommodation into something like that. Their

lives need toe be rebuilt, their children need to be given help,

counselling and support. Can you tell us what sort of properties are

being looked at for that permanent accommodation? No. You don't know?

No. There is a group responsible for this. As far as I know, I do not

know what properties are being looked. A we know about the social

housing that's being got ready quickly in Kensington High Street

that's been bought at cost from the developers so that it can be got

ready very quickly, the 68 unit there is, but I don't know the other

units are. That is permanent accommodation so they can move in

and stay there? That was always going to be permanent social

housing. Fine. So people might have a wish to move after they've moved

in, they might change or whatever, I'm sure that will be dealt with

sensitively, but it was always built as permanent social housing. OK.

Richard Burgon, in terms of commissioners, it's the Labour Mayor

Sadiq Khan, suggesting it should be commissioners who run this council.

Why would that be the best idea? I think it's important as well to

listen to what local residents say about this. One of the advantages of

getting commissioners in, and it's a rarely used power, but quite

correctly a boyar that's there and it's correct that it's rarely used,

that the Government can appoint commissioners to run a council on a

day-to-day basis to make the day-to-day decisions. It's the right

thing to happen. If it happens, they have to find a way where local

residents still have their democratic representations made so

that councillors would be in a position to hold the council to

account. The Government's indicated it's not going to happen, so what is

the next best option? We need to listen to local residents. We had a

meeting in Parliament with residents including survivors. What was clear

was that they feel still that things haven't been sorted out since that

terrible fire. So all steps need to be taken. It seems to me there has

been a bit of absence of Government, or the absence of the state Noel

locally and nationally, so things haven't been sorted out, including

rehousing, benefits, the provision of... I would like to see the

provision of a social worker for every person affected. People are in

shock and trauma. As the video that we just saw, showed people need

access to mental health assistance as well. Are you shocked that that

is not happening considering what those people have experienced? It is

completely shocking. At the meeting in Parliament the other day, when I

left to vote, there was a video taken of a woman speaking and she

talked about a child having drawn a picture of the burning block with

her friends flying out of the top and there are children walking past

the remains of the building on the way to school and other residents

seeing it every day. It can't be imagined the horror that people are

still going through and people who may never be able to forget this. So

it's important that practical help is provided to them. This is really

a national disaster and the Government needs to do everything it

can in order to sort this out to support people as best as they can.

Is that a Government issue, the lack of support when it comes to mental

health and dealing with what people experienced and witnessed and

helping them through this deep, deep trauma, or is that a local council

issue? I think the important thing... I think the two things

merge for this purpose. The state has to work together. Richard paints

a picture which is a little bit blacker than it actually is, that

many of the services he calls for, there are social workers attached to

people. Many things he calls for are being provided, the question is one

of outreach and connection. But there's also the issue, and he puts

his finger on it, that it doesn't matter what material and other

support you give to the people who've had this experience, the

trauma will be with them and can't be washed away by any action that

can be taken. Of course. There'll still be suffering out there in

people's heads even if material things are addressed, for decades to

come. So we have to reek recognise that I think the Government is

doing, and the local councils working there, are putting on a

great array of services. They are perfectly aware that they are not

getting through to everybody, they are doing their best to find people,

they still don't even though exactly who was in the building, there might

be people out there who've not identified themselves, so they've

been doing their best to get out there, aware that they are not

covering all of the ground. They really are trying to address that. I

agree where Richard to the ex-than this is not going to be something

that you will ever say the Government's done this, tick,

sorted, done, there are always going to be things that could be better

and that still need to be done probably for years to come but I

think it's a little more, I think people are more aware of what

Richard said, it's a matter of working together,en couragement

rather than criticism is what people need at the moment. Thank you both

very much. Daniel Moylan Conservative councillor at

Kensington and Chelsea leader and Richard Burgon, Labour's

spokesperson on justice. Thank you. Andy Murray starts the defence

of his Wimbledon title today and says he is fit,

despite suffering We'll be live there

in just a moment. And claims that girls as young

as nine are trying to get surgery on their vagina

because they are upset Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. The Foreign Secretaried added his

voice to the growing calls from within the Cabinet for Theresa May

to lift the 1% cap on pay rises for public sector workers. The limit is

due to be in place until to 20. A Government source said Boris

Johnson's strongly believes pay rises could be achieved without

putting undue pressure on the public finances.

Figures out today show that for the first time in nearly

a decade, more nurses and midwives are leaving

the profession in the UK, than joining it.

In the year to March 2017, 20% more staff left

the register run by the Nursing and Midwifery Council

than signed up to it - with British nurses quitting

The Department of Health says there's a national programme

The Unite union says Bank of England workers are to stage a four date

strike at the end of July over pay. Up to a third of workers have

received no pay rise at all this year.

The energy regulator, Ofgem, has announced plans to limit gas

and electricity bills for more people on low incomes.

The regulator says it will be consulting on how best to protect

the most vulnerable customers from high prices, and around

2 million people could face lower bills as a result.

They've also announced plans to make switching energy suppliers easier.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

Back to you. Salary is at Wimbledon. Let's talk about Andy Murray. How

ready is he to start the defence of his title? I tell you what, if he is

half as ready as this court he will be fine. Can I go slightly off

script and see just look at the grass? It looks like velvet. Over

there, oh, you just missed it, but someone has been over there mopping

up the extra bits of grass, but this is where we will see Andy Murray at

Centre Court at one o'clock, of course the reigning Wimbledon

champion, and he is such a popular player here, of course the home

favourite, but he has been really struggling with a hip injury in the

last couple of weeks. Pulled out of two exhibition matches last week,

due to play as kind of warm up last week. Obviously some suggesting his

injury is fairly serious but we do know he has been practising on grass

all week. He just wanted to take it at his own pace. He was heading

brilliantly last week. It is just how good his movement will be around

the court with that hip injury. But the top four men's players are all

probably carrying a bit of an injury. They have been around a long

time and to play the sport at the highest level you will get hurt. And

the British women's number one Johanna Konta has had problems as

well. How is she? She had terrible time last week, playing at

Eastbourne and she had a shocking fall. You know when your legs just

go from under you? That happened to her. She took a tumble when she was

playing, I really nasty fall, and hit her head quite badly. She has

had all sorts of checks over the weekend, checked for concussion, I

believe, but in her interview yesterday she said she was feeling

fine, as well as expected, that there was no concussion, and she

said she comes into this Wimbledon feeling is that as she possibly can.

But I know she is the British number one and there is a huge and of

pressure on her and that is something she will try not to think

about, will try to block it out completely. Let's talk about former

winner Petrarch Kvitova, injured in a knife attack, but the beauty is

fancy her to pick up a third title here? Wouldn't that be just the most

amazing story. Her playing Handel was stabbed in her home in a knife

attack and the attacker stabbed her playing hand with a knife -- playing

hand was stabbed. You would think, is this woman ever going to step

onto court again, firstly because of the feeling in her hand, will she

ever recover physically? But also how do you recover mentally from

that, to have the confidence to come back and play at the highest level.

She has admitted she has some numbness still in the hand and is

hoping she will get full feeling back. She played in Birmingham a

couple of weeks ago. She won. She was fantastic. But she

says she is not even thinking about winning Wimbledon. She said she has

already won the biggest battle of this year simply by being back in

playing the sport she loves. Thank you, Sally. I think we will speak to

you every day at Wimbledon. That will be lovely. I am looking forward

to it. Good morning. It is 9:34am. Welcome to the programme.

This programme has learnt that a girl as young as nine has sought

surgery on her vagina because they are distressed

Doctors say they're seeing more and more young teenagers

who are very distressed with how this part of their body looks -

even though their body is healthy and they have no medical

Labiaplasty is an operation which is not recommended for those

under the age of 18 because the body has not finished developing.

Some medical experts are comparing the unnecessary operation on young

Our reporter Jean Mackenzie has this exclusive report -

which as you'd expect contains frank conversations

and you may not want young children to hear.

In our visual, virtual world there is an increasing pressure

But what about the parts not on show?

I guess I'd just picked up from somewhere that it wasn't neat

enough or tidy enough, and I think I wanted it to be smaller.

Doctors have told us they are seeing more

girls upset with how their genitals look.

I'm seeing young girls around 11, 12, 13, thinking there is

something wrong with their vulva, that they're the wrong

shape, the wrong size, and really expressing almost disgust.

And more often than not, they're after cosmetic

Girls will sometimes come out with comments like,

I just hate it, I just want it removed, I want it treated.

And for a girl to feel that way about any part of her body,

let alone a part that's intimate, is really upsetting.

Naomi is one of the country's leading adolescent gynaecologists.

And I've come to meet her in Bristol after hearing how concerned

she is about the number of girls seeking her help.

Over the last few years, whereas I might have seen one or two

patients every few months, I'm now seeing patients every week.

I would say typically they will be mid-adolescence, 14, 15,

The youngest girl I've seen is a girl of nine.

Almost universally the solution they are seeking

is to have an operation, to have surgery.

The surgery is called labioplasty - it's where the lips of the vagina

It can be done for cosmetic reasons, or if they're causing a woman pain.

GPs and doctors will refer a girl and say, we are worried

that the appearance looks strange, looks wrong, looks abnormal in some

way, the inner lips of the labia are too long or are pendulous

or abnormal, and so a girl will come and see me and she'll be

really worried, and her mum will probably be worried.

Then I'll offer them an examination, and 100% of the time I will find

they have perfectly normal anatomy and there's no

So how do you feel when you see these girls wanting surgery

on their genitals and you deem them to be what you call normal?

I find it very worrying that we are normalising cosmetic

surgery on the genital area for a generation.

I think when I was about like 13, 14, I started to wonder why

Anna decided when she was younger that she would have the operation

I guess I just picked up from somewhere, like, it wasn't neat

enough or tidy enough and I think I wanted it to be smaller.

Where were you getting the idea that you didn't look normal?

Sometimes people around me were watching porn and stuff,

and I just had the idea it should be symmetrical and like

I guess I just thought what everyone else looked

like because I hadn't seen any normal, everyday areas

And why did you decide that you wanted surgery?

I didn't want to be abnormal, I didn't want to look different

because I thought I looked different from other people.

I remember looking back through magazines and things

like that and I remember seeing that as one of the options and went, oh,

OK, so if there's surgery options for it clearly I'm not the only one

And it was, like, maybe it'll not be that big of a deal,

snip one side so it looks the same, symmetrical, loads of

I just wasn't seeing girls coming with these anxieties before.

She started to worry when her young patients began

Since then she's surveyed others in her trust

I think what's really distressing is the disgust.

I remember the girl pointing at her genitalia and her nose sort

of wrinkling in disgust, and saying, what's this?

As if there really doesn't seem to be a knowledge now

of what one should look like - there seems to be this very narrow

What is the perceived spectrum of normal versus the reality

That the inner lips, if you like, should be invisible,

a bit like a Barbie doll, you don't see anything.

But the reality is that there is great variation

in the size of the inner lips, that some of them quite

You feel very strongly that women and girls particularly shouldn't be

seeking the surgery and shouldn't be having it.

The labia is normal, healthy, erogenous tissue.

Why on earth should one be removing it?

The NHS says this surgery shouldn't be carried out on girls

before they turn 18, as their genitals won't

And a few years ago, they changed the rules so that GPs

could no longer refer patients who had cosmetic concerns

There had to be a physical issue that was causing

But as we've heard, that hasn't stopped

Last year more than 200 girls under the age of 18 had

Because the area hasn't finished developing.

That is akin to 156 girls under the age of 15

The NHS team who gave us that data were keen to point out

that the NHS would never operate for cosmetic reasons.

Do you think some of these surgeries that have been

I find it very hard to believe that there are 156 girls under

the age of 15 who had a medical abnormality with the labia that

I think that's extraordinary, and as a paediatric and adolescent

gynaecologists I have never seen a girl under the age

of 15 who has ever needed to have an operation on her labia.

There are medical practitioners up and down the country who must be

And I think we need to be trying to do more about it.

We know the NHS now says it won't perform this operation

Do you think girls are wising up to this, and over-promoting physical

I think there is awareness that they are more likely

to have the operation if they say that it's causing physical

discomfort, interfering with sex, interfering with sport.

They feel that will tick that box and they are more likely

But some of them are genuinely distressed.

They are so convinced there is something wrong

and they feel so embarrassed and ashamed of their appearance

So what can be done to tackle the distress that

Well, a lot can be achieved in schools by teaching girls, and boys,

And I've come to this school, which is working really hard

We've gone from Marilyn Monroe to Kim Kardashian in the past 50 years.

And the reason that that's happened is because the existence

of the fitness, fashion and beauty industries, to an extent,

rely on inventing new things for us to worry about.

New parts of our body that we are supposed to apologise for.

Because if they can keep us insecure, they

Natasha Devon goes into schools to talk to teenagers

There's a lot of young women who are going to have surgery

on their genitals because they think they are not normal.

They are normal, but pornography has created this unrealistic expectation

There are people who will try and convince you that you're not

There is a pressure, particularly on girls,

to attain perfection in all areas of their life.

They feel pressure to perform academically, to seem

like they are popular, to be sporty, and additionally

How important is it to educate girls on this stuff?

We can teach children as early as possible to question, and

have a really healthy scepticism for the world around them.

And that prepares them for what is, let's face it,

because of technology, quite an uncertain future.

So if you chase what ever is considered to be

beautiful at any one given moment in history you will be

chasing it forever, because it will always change.

It's great to see some of the work that is being done in schools

but now I really want to understand some of the pressure

How much pressure do you guys feel to look a certain way?

There is a lot of pressure, especially on social media.

It's all pictures working out or looking a certain way and you look

at yourself and go, oh, I don't look like that at all.

Boys have like a certain image of a girl

and then they think like you should have to work towards that image.

They can be whatever they want but you have to be a certain thing.

Do you worry about the images that boys

are seeing with pornography and how it's affecting what they think girls

I just think they are really unrealistic.

Everyone either has fake boobs all they have

But when a boy or someone or a couple go to have sex,

they think that their body is going to look like that.

Do you ever worry about the appearance or that part of

There's an expectation that you shouldn't have it really hairy.

There's just like an image that pubic hair is dirty.

There was like one thing and Snapchat a few weeks ago and

it was like, there's four different types of vaginas.

They were categorising it into four or five

So it was like, oh, what if it doesn't fit into that?

It's interesting because I considered

myself quite confident, and then when you think

about it, we do a lot of

The term "Designer vagina", which I hate

using, that really has put a certain stamp on this surgery.

Which in some respects is no different to breast

The majority of labioplasties are done by private cosmetic

surgeons on women once they've turned 18.

And the industry is criticised for normalising the

procedure and encouraging these insecurities.

Some of the medical practitioners we've spoken to say

that a lot of the young girls wanting this operation actually,

when they look at them, have no need for it.

There's an awful lot of that about but I have seen the patients

anywhere between 16 and 21 who have never had a boyfriend.

They've never even engaged in an intimate

relationship because they are so concerned about that.

But you rightly mention that this is a

How do you feel operating on people for

I do it because I can get people to be

It changes that outlook in life, it changes the

feelings they have about themselves, it changes their self esteem and

And I think if you can change that with something

relatively simple, like an hour-long operation, it's a worthwhile thing

There are those who vehemently disagree.

Who say the parallels between this surgery and

female genital mutilation are uncomfortable.

When we think of the horror of FGM is that comparisonfair?

The law is clear, we should not be performing operations and

surgery which is irreversible on developing bodies for cultural

The Western culture, the current culture, is to have very

small labia minora, for them to be tucked inside the outer vagina lips.

Female genital mutilation is clearly not a

procedure that we can support in any way, shape or form.

To even use it in the same sentence as labiaplasty surgery is not only

If we should not be doing labial surgery

then there needs to be a societal response and a decision made.

But before that decision, the question

that needs addressing is, why now is there such

a demand for this surgery and from such young girls?

There isn't enough education and it should

start quite young because puberty is starting

younger and younger, as to

what your body is going to look like.

And explaining to them that there is a range, like we all look

different in our faces, we look different in that part of our bodies

I've spent some time trying to talk to them

about the anatomies and we've also got pictures of women with no

medical problems and no concerns with that part of the body, and to

realise that women can be all shapes and sizes and these are all healthy

I think it goes some way towards alleviating that.

And while education is crucial, Naomi

says some of the responsibilities must live with the professionals.

I don't think it should be performed.

Certainly on girls under the age of 18.

Over the age of 18 it should be seen for what it is which a cosmetic

procedure which people may choose to buy.

For me, I stopped worrying so much about how I looked

and realised there were more versions of normality.

And are you glad you didn't get it done?

Yes, looking back now I'm really glad I didn't

Where are the mums, that's what I want to know. If you are a mum, get

in touch. Anthony f on Facebook says I don't know any teenager who isn't

happy with some part of their body but they learn to live with it. Some

should be treated by psychologists before surgery. Joe says this idea

of surgery is ridiculous and another says it should only be done if it's

an issue. Another says it's perfection being demanded. Can you

imagine being a mum taking your daughter to talk about that with a

gynaecologist, aged nine, 13, 14? NHS England told us it carries out

this type of surgery for complex clinical conditions,

but not for cosmetic reasons. It added that Clinical Commissioning

Groups would have their own policies about surgery for cosmetic reasons

that may include this procedure. Pressure continues to mount for

Theresa May to scrap the public sector pay cap. We talked about this

last week. That pressure is continuing on the Prime Minister.

Keith on text says, with NHS Trust CEOs earning ?250,000 plus bonus and

benefits and their immediate subordinates close behind, get rid

of them and give front line staff an increase and stop using agencies.

Matt on e-mail says pay cap paid for easily by scrapping HSII. A pay rise

is in the national interest, but HSII is not. This texter says, if

funding is needed for nurses, how about freezing the salaries of

senior management and consultants on salaries of ?80,000 and above. Peter

says use foreign aid and look after Britain first. When we are sorted we

can then help others. Zoren on e-mail, the 1% cap has been unfair

and the public sector's played and paid its part in helping the

country, however does the money have to be found from elsewhere? If so,

where? Labour plans to spend its way out of the financial problem and

that is wrong. This texter says, there shouldn't be any question on

how to pay for it, we are one of the richest countries, we will find the

money. Teachers have expressed serious

concerns about a law which obliges them to report students showing

signs of being radicalised. It's now been two years

since schools and colleges implemented the Prevent Duty,

a key part of the government's strategy to divert people

from violent extremism. Three Counties Radio has obtained

the first detailed report into how teachers and college

staff are adapting. It says they've responded

professionally - but there are worries

about the effect it's having Usman Azad has this

report from Luton. The year 8s at Stockwood Park

Academy in Luton are about to get How to recognise it,

how to reject it, and how to protect themselves from

those who promote it. I want to start off straightaway

with what you see on Who can raise their

hands quickly and Irfan Chishti is a

Home Office approved He travels from school to school

delivering these sessions, raising awareness of extremism

and radicalisation. And hey, that word there, who said

it over here, look at what they The government strategy to tackle

radicalisation and Identify people mainly the young

at risk of being drawn A terror organisation,

their propaganda is pretty loud And that's the kind

of message they are putting Prevent is one of his four

strands of the government's counterterrorism strategy

known as Contest. Created by the Labour government,

its remit was widened by Teachers are now on the

front line of this. Two years ago Prevent became a legal

duty for schools and colleges. They are now obliged

to show due regard to the need to prevent people

from being drawn into terrorism. This means spotting people's

vulnerability to radicalisation and referring them to

specialist support. According to the research, teachers

by and large accept the Prevent study. Staff were sceptical as to

whether the duty would identify genuine cases of young people that

have been drawn into terrorism. They felt such young people would be more

likely to be able to hide what they were doing so they didn't think the

duty itself would be necessarily able to identify those people. In

Luton, these concerns are felt across broad sections of the Muslim

community, despite more than a third of Prevent referrals nationwide

referring to far right extremism. Mr Malik believes children subject to

referrals can end up on watch lists. He also thinks it's a big ask for

teachers. The fact is, no teacher has gone into the teaching industry

with the intention of policing, because that's what Prevent is,

policing the community. Teachers are being asked to do a job which they

haven't been trained to do. The impact Prevent has on Muslim boys

and girls, is that it alienates them from the community, makes them into

a suspect community, it adds to the narrative that prevails and

encourages discrimination, hate crime and Islamophobia. From that,

that can only create more hate, more resentment and disconnect from the

wider community. I think training is a really important part of what we

do as professionals in education. Our staff are very well trained,

they're trained by the Prevent team and actually by our own staff who're

trained up to deliver the sessions. That means staff are really skilled

at spotting early signs, things that might seem reasonably

inconsequencetial but actually when they add up could be something

really major. For the Government, Prevent remains the central plank of

their antiradicalisation strategy. There hawk talk it will be

relaunched or rebranded. We have been told more likely there'll be

extra funding. I don't hang up on the word Prevent because at the

heart of this it's about safeguarding, that is the key

message for everyone. The proof is the fact that actually in many

areas, we are seeing far right sometimes outstripping referrals

from the Muslim communities because actually people are vulnerable to

being groomed no matter who they are and what their background is.

Pakistan have done well in the cricket... Back at Stockwood Park

academy, the fun assembly is being wrapped up. The school is located in

the part of town where the English Defence League was founded. So how

did the audience respond to today's session? A loft of my friends got

discrimination after a lot of the attacks and that was quite upsetting

to me. Now the fact that I know that it's, you know, that I can actually

tell these people that that is not what they stand for as people, it's

like not their values that those people are going out and showing,

it's actually quite like the opposite. It teaches us about how

the world around us works, what happens and how stupid people can be

in the sense that it shows that they think Muslims' religion, it's their

religion but the religion shows they should do the opposite of what they

do. Tremendousth the Prevent remains an issue. The Government insists

it's our best bet to keep vulnerable minds from being preyed upon.

It's estimated half of all referrals to Prevent are about under 18s

thought to account for about 2,000 young people, the youngest of which

was four. Four! We can speak now to Atiq Malik a lawyer and member of

Prevent watch. He's represented families. Also Irfan who you saw in

the film, cofounder of Me You and Imam of Salford Central Mosque. Good

morning. Mr Malik first of all, this report that we have seen suggests

there is no evidence of widespread resistance to Prevent by teachers,

yet significant concern about the stigmatisation of Muslim students.

How much is that a problem for you? a and details, what vote for the

three-year-old? -- without giving names and details. The child could

not pronounce properly what the word cucumber was and they were referred

to Prevent for that. It was a very shocking story, known as the

cucumber case, widely reported in the media. What did they think the

child was saying? They thought that the child was saying cooker bomb.

Cooker bomb? This is true? It was reported widespread in the UK and

internationally, because it caused so much shock, as do Windows the

Prevent duty start or stop. Three-year-olds, two-year-olds,

one-year-olds, how far gone as this? And whose responsibility is this,

parents, teachers? And public services are bursting at the seams,

the teachers,... And teachers are not complaining about this duty.

There is no "Widespread resistance to Prevent by teachers." It is

shocking to hear that because the National union of teachers has

repeatedly voiced concerns, asked for the scrapping of the Prevent

duty, asked for an independent review of the Prevent resume in its

entirety. Another interesting point is this. The United Nations have

also published a report which was published by the United Nations, the

human rights commission, and what that says is that the Prevent duty

is not only inherently flawed and not only does it feel to meet its

objectives, but it adds to the problem it is trying to resolve. And

it says that it actually goes against the grain of human rights

and democracy. Let's bring in Irfan on that. Goes against the grain of

democracy. How do you respond to what Mr is saying? Esau and that at

how we deal with this on the ground level with students and staff -- how

do you deal with what Mr Attiq Malik is saying? This is one flawed

response. The key issue in this whole agenda is that Prevent deals

with situations as a safeguarding issue just as it deals with any

other. We have now been working with the school and education sector for

a number of years and overwhelmingly the response as you got from that

report as well and I'm speaking to you as a practitioner the ground,

speaking to teachers, the confidence they now have because we are using

the word safeguarding. I am an ex-teacher myself and safeguarding

is bread and butter for people. People understand that if there is

harm, regardless of what type of harm, then teachers have a duty to

safeguard and to deal with that in the appropriate manner. All right.

One final point to you, Mr Malik. Ben Wallace, Security Minister, says

150 people have been dissuaded from fighting in Syria. You must welcome

that. I am glad you raise that. In actual fact Amber Rudd said it was

150 people stop from travelling to Syria, but this makes no sense. If

150 people were stopped travelling to Syria, which Amber Rudd said...

We can argue about the figures. It might be ten, might be 150, but you

must welcome the fact they have been dissuaded? That is the point. If

they have been dissuaded, that is a criminal act, preparatory acts of

terrorism. They said 150 people stopped from committing these

offences, these offences committed over the last year. Looking at the

figures, in the Hall of England over the last year only 61 people have

been convicted of terrorism -- in the entirety of England. Terrorism

in that sense includes preparing to go to another country, sending money

to somebody, going on the Internet and looking at how to make a bomb,

Sokoli 60 people in the Hall of the country last year were convicted --

Suyal is only 60 people were convicted of terrorist related acts,

where does their 150, from? Is it F, another Tory lie from the election,

what is going on? We have to leave it there. We will bring you the news

and sport a little late in a moment, but first the weather.

Thank you. Good morning. We have had a fairly decent start to July, the

weekend not so bad at all, and this weekend starts off decent. A bit of

rain expected on Tuesday but before we get that far you can see one or

two showers across England and Wales heading into this afternoon. And

outside chance perhaps of catching a shower at Wimbledon but sunny spells

across many parts. The cloud is increasing in Northern Ireland and

run this afternoon and temperatures getting into the high teens and low

20s, but that rain in Northern Ireland will move its way gradually

into southern Scotland, northern England, then patchy rain for

England and Wales as well. Elsewhere should be dry. 11-15 for

temperatures. During Tuesday it is that northern part of England and

southern Scotland, Northern Ireland, that will stay quite wet throughout

the day. The far north of Scotland is largely dry with sunny spells and

sunny spells developing for a good part of England and Wales during the

afternoon as well. Here, temperatures up to about 25 degrees,

but a bit chillier especially when you're stuck beneath that cloud and

rain at 13-14. Goodbye. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. The Foreign Secretary's

added his voice to the growing calls from within the Cabinet

for Theresa May to lift the 1% cap on pay rises

for public sector workers. The limit is due to be

in place until 2020. But a government source said

Boris Johnson "strongly" believed pay rises could be achieved

without putting undue pressure Figures out today show that

for the first time in nearly a decade, more nurses

and midwives are leaving the profession in the UK,

than joining it. In the year to March 2017,

20% more staff left the register run by the Nursing

and Midwifery Council than signed up to it -

with British nurses quitting The Department of Health says

there's a national programme The Unite union says Bank of England

workers are to stage a four-day strike from the 31st of July

in a dispute over pay. The Union said staff were angry

they have been given a below inflation pay offer for the second

year running with up to a third of workers will receive no pay

rise at all this year. President Trump has been accused

of inciting violence against journalists,

after he tweeted a spoof video showing him assaulting a man

with a CNN logo super-imposed In the wrestling video,

he's shown punching the CNN The President regularly

accuses CNN and other media outlets of broadcasting

what he calls, "fake news". It's been re-tweeted

more than 250,000 times. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30. The gates open at the All England

Club in the next half an hour. Andy Murray should also

be arriving very soon. He says he's good to go

for Wimbledon fortnight but it's looked touch and go for the past

week or so. He's been putting in extra practice

this week to try and shake off Remember, he lost in the first

round of Queens a fortnight ago and he also had to pull out

of a couple of exhibition events so he's really short

on grasscourt matches as he looks He's first up on Centre Court,

as is the tradition, and the world number 134

Alexander Bublik shouldn't cause him too many problems,

but Murray knows his preparations It's just a little bit stressful

because at this point, this period of the year, right before Slam, and

the biggest tournament for me of the year, as Brit, you want to be

preparing, out there practising, and I haven't been in that position

before really, but you just have to try to stay patient, stay calm.

Johanna Konta's fitness has also been a worry.

She had a nasty fall at Eastbourne in the qaurterfinals,

and hurt her back, that forced her to pull out

She says she is "recovering really well."

She's on Court One - against Hsieh Suwei from Taiwan.

She is seeded sixth at Wimbledon. BBC Two is a good place to start for

the coverage. Britain's Chris Froome

and Geraint Thomas had a lucky escape on the second stage

of the Tour de France. They recovered from this crash

to reach the finish in Liege. The moment was captured

by photographer Chris Auld. Despite the look of panic the riders

were not badly hurt. Reigning champion Froome

remains sixth overall. That is all the sport for now and I

will be back with your headlines in the next half an hour or so. Thank

you. And thank you although much for your comment inhabit this pay cap.

There has been pressure on various ministers to lift it -- your

comments in this morning about the pay cap. One teacher, I have not had

a pay rise since I joined the profession but in thes have had an

11% pay rise. Teaching is now unbearable and so many are leaving.

As code to pay for the increase, I don't remember the BBC asking how we

would pay for the bombs we sent to Syria recently -- when asked how we

will pay for the increase. A similar point here. The Lord's claim ?300 a

day on expenses. Public service employees deserve the same

consideration. Paul e-mails to say he agrees public sector employees

should get a pay increase. It is not only the public sector affected. I

have not had any pay rise and eight years now and have not had -- and

not the only one I know. Sick of hearing about the power public

sector workers when they have done better than me. As I say, this is

under increasing pressure to end that pay freeze. It was announced

back in 2010 and means teachers, nurses, firefighters, police and

other people working in the public sector have had their pay cap that

1%, even though inflation, the cost of living, has risen more than that.

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has become the latest senior Cabinet

minister to put pressure on the Chancellor and the Prime Minister to

end it. The Conservatives went

into the election pledging to maintain the cap until 2020,

but there are growing calls for a rethink

after the party lost its majority It comes as figures from the Nursing

and Midwifery Council show more nurses and midwives are leaving

the profession in the UK A basic salary for a new nurse in

2010 was ?21,176 per year. In 2016 that figure was ?21,692, an increase

of just over ?500. Whereas MPs' salaries were ?65,738 in 2010, and

?74,962 in 2016. An increase of almost ?9,000. Not all MPs took that

extra rise. Some donated it to charities or used it in their office

on interns and so on. Lets talk to Josie Irwin

from the Royal College of Nursing, Maria Caulfield

who is a Conservative MP and a former nurse herself,

and Alasdair Smith an economist and former member of

four pay review bodies. Welcome, love you. Josie, wire

nurses leaving? I think nurses feel they have been taken for granted for

too long -- welcome, all of you. Nurses leaving, it is not just

nurses towards the end of their career. Workload pressures are

enormously intense. Nurses are working extra hours every shift in

order just to get the work done. It is an incredibly pressured

environment. So it is just too much and that he is not worth it? It is

just too much and 50 -- 59% of our members and we know because we have

surveyed them, they feel they cannot deliver the quality of care they

want to and have been trained to deliver, so they feel really

compromised by the impact of the squeeze on their profession. And of

course some are leaving because of the economic circumstances as well.

In reality it is a complex mix of not enough money, feeling

undervalued, and just not being able to do, to provide the care they have

been trained to do. And the impact on the NHS of this? Our view is that

the NHS is at a tipping point, quite frankly, and it is not... We have

heard that before, though. This time it is really true. There are 40,000

nursing vacancies in England alone. We know that the number of nurses

coming to the UK from the EU are not coming in the numbers that they

were, for obvious reasons, because they are uncertain. There are about

35,000 nurses who work you trained who are now feeling uncertain about

their future, who will go, and that on top of the 40,000 is just not

believable really. We don't know that 35,000 will go. We don't know

that 35,000 will go but we know a fair proportion of them will go

because they feel uncertain about their future. Maria, hello. Michael

Gove, the Environment Secretary, seemed yesterday to support calls

for the cap to be lifted, and said we don't necessarily have to pay for

it by raising taxes, which means diverted money from elsewhere or

borrowing, what do you think? There are some difficult decisions to be

made. The reason why there has been a pay freeze, and I suffered that

working as a nurse during the 2010-2015 period, and it is

extremely difficult. As Josie says, most nurses work extra hours, extra

shifts, joined their hospital bank... Would you support the free

is being lifted? Absolutely. Will reject the money from? There are

difficult decisions to be made because of the interest we are

paying on deficit and if we suddenly start spending on everything we want

to, we will have to pay more in terms of interest payments as a

country, but it is about priorities. For me public sector workers have

been carrying their services, whether it is teachers, doctors,

police, for too long. OK, so would you raise taxes? Michael Gove says

not necessarily have to do that. Would you divert money from

elsewhere, replacing Trident, HS2, or would you borrow? I think it is

about priorities, and there is money in the system. But we are? For me I

think we need to look at the international aid budget. I am very

supportive of it. It was ?30 billion last year. What do you think it

should be in order to fund the lifting of the cap? It will cost

about ?6 billion and it will not all, from one budget, if we lift the

cup. For me I don't particularly want to be raising taxes because it

will be ordinary nurses, teachers, police officers paying bills. We

have done a huge amount lifting people out of tax. I think it would

be a retrograde step. So you say take some money from the

foreign aid budget. That is taking money from some of the poorest in

the world. You are a representative of the Royal College of Nursing,

would you be comfortable with that? I think Maria's explained it very

well. There are political choices to be made. Making a political choice

is always difficult. We would say that in order to deliver the health

care that patients in this country deserve, the money needs to be found

from somewhere, but that is not our decision. But would you sleep at

night if money was taken from some of the poorest people in the world

to pay for your members? There are some tough political decisions to be

made... All right. Alastair, hello. In terms of your experience of pay

review bodies, what do they look at before recommending? They look at

the kind of evidence that you've just been discussing whether in the

workforce they're looking at whether there's a problem of holding on to

the staff that they already have, when there are recruitment problems.

They get evidence from the Treasury of how much public money is

available to pay. To spend on pay. They weigh up that evidence and come

independently to a view on how much of a pay increase you will be given.

Josie said there is 40,000 vacancies in terms of nurses. So in order to

try and correct that, and it's a slow process, you can't just employ

40,000 people for tomorrow, how much would pay have to go up in order to

attract new people into nursing, or does it not work Reich that? No,

no... It does work like that but you are not going to get a straight

answer from me, not because I want to avoid it, but because that's the

job of the pay review bold write to look at that evidence and making

that judgment about what level of pay is needed to address a

recruitment problem if indeed there is one. OK. Thank you very much.

I've got a couple more comments. Bear with me. OK. A lot of people

Maria are asking, how come MPs aren't public sector workers and

haven't been subject to the pay cap? I'm not sure why that is, I would be

very supportive if they were, I didn't take the pay rise when I

first got elected, I gave it to local charities because I felt

having just come from the NHS with a pay freeze for the five years that

was there, I didn't feel it was right that I should take it when

former colleagues didn't get one. I'm not sure why that is, because I

think I personally feel that MPs should be reflecting every other

public sector worker and if they are not getting a pay rise I would be

very happy. That is a personal view rather than a party political one.

God forbid. This texter says we can't provide basic care for people

who need it in hospitals and we are told nurses cannot be paid a live

wage yet. Taxpayers more to fund the Royals and their lifestyle, can we

still afford them. Mike says, it's time to look after our own, foreign

aid needs to be slashed until we have our own problems sorted. Public

sector workers are the people the country turn to in times of disaster

and danger, NHS staff Fire Service prison officers, police all

protecting care for the public, it's time to pay them back for their

commitment and bravery. Thank you very much.

This programme has learnt that girls as young as nine are seeking

surgery on their vagina because they are distressed

Doctors say they're seeing more and more young teenagers

who are very distressed with how this part of their body looks

even though their body is healthy and they have no medical

Labiaplasty is an operation which is not recommended for those

under the age of 18 because the body has not finished developing.

Some medical experts are comparing the unnecessary operation on young

Our reporter Jean Mackenzie bought you our exclusive report earlier

in the programme; here's a short extract.

In our visual, virtual world, there is an

increasing pressure on teenagers to look the part.

I've come to meet one of the country's leading adolescent

gynaecologists, who's concerned about the number

of young girls wanting cosmetic surgery on the genitals.

Girls will sometimes come out with comments like,

I just want it removed, I want it treated.

15, 16, but I have seen girls who are younger.

The youngest girl I have seen as a girl of nine.

The surgery is called labiaplasty, it is where the

lips of the vagina are shortened and reshaped.

It can be done for cosmetic reasons or if they are

Paquita has been a GP for 30 years and has only recently

started seeing patients with these concerns.

I remember the girl pointing at her genitalia, and

her nose sort of wrinkling in disgust.

There seems to be this very narrow spectrum of what is acceptable.

That the inner lips, if you like, should

A bit like a Barbie doll, you don't see anything.

The NHS says it won't carry out this surgery

for cosmetic reasons and

that it shouldn't be performed on girls under 18.

But last year more than 150 girls and the age of 15 had

I find it very hard to believe that there

were 156 girls under the age of 15 who had a medical abnormality

with the labia that meant they needed to have surgery.

And as a paediatric and adolescent gynaecologist I have

never seen a girl under the age of 15 who has needed to have an

There is a lot of pressure, especially on

social media, it's all pictures of working out

And you look at yourself and think, oh, I don't look like that at all!

Do you ever worry about the appearance of that part of your

There was one thing on Snapchat a few weeks ago.

It was like there are four different types of vaginas and it was likes,

what if we don't fit into that. People don't know what they look

like, they are not being taught so they go online and see artificial

pictures and then they think, oh, my God, maybe I'm not quite normal.

Teaching young girls what they bodies look like is crucial. But

Naomi says some of the responsibility must lie with the

professionals. I don't think it should be performed, certainly on

the girls under 18. Over 18 it should be seen for what it is, which

is a cosmetic procedure which people may choose to buy.

NHS England says it carries out this type of surgery for complex

clinical conditions, but not for cosmetic reasons.

It adds that Clinical Commissioning Groups would have their own policies

about surgery for cosmetic reasons that may include this procedure.

Here now to discuss this is Dr Gail Busby, the Lead Pediatric

and Adolescent Gynaecologist, at Royal Manchester

Dr Janice Rymer is Vice President of the Royal College

of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and Professor Heather Willows

is a professor of medical ethics and is researching a book looking

at how young people's perceptions of themselves are changing.

A Professor where? Birmingham. Welcome all of you. This figure of

200 labia plasty on girls under 18 performed by the NHS in 2015-16 and

yet the NHS says we don't do this for cosmetic reasons. Does that make

sense to you, the two statements? No. I have to say that I have left

the service. I started the service in Manchester for paediatrics and

gynaecology in 2009 so I've seen many girls come to me aged as young

as ten through to 18 and of those girls, only one girl has ever had a

medical condition which has manifested in large labia. So are

you saying it does not sound plausible... It's highly unlikely

these girls all have medical conditions which have manifested in

large labia. How do you respond to the film? Girls are coming along for

this perceived perception that they are abnormal when they are in fact

normal. Particularly in adolescents. Is this

female genital mutilation? I think you've got to be very careful in

confusing it with FGM because if FGM is done without consent and

labiaplasty is done with consent, that can be interpreted as FGM. It's

important to remember, FGM is without consent, labiaplasty is with

consent. I think we are all completely against labiaplasty,

particularly in girls under 18. The statistics and the documentary we

saw are shocking and concerning. Professor Widows, in terms of your

research about young people's perceptions of themselves, what is

going on in Britain in 2017 if girls, presumably with a mum or dad,

are being taken to gynaecologists to say, something needs to be done

because I don't like the way my labia looks? You heard about nit the

film, girls feel they have to be normal and their idea of normal is

distorted. Where are they getting that idea from? It's the idea of a

perfect body, so over half girls aged 14-18 feel they have to be

perfect. By perfect you mean a thin, firm body, going from breasts and

also think that about their labia too. Increasingly they live online

in a visual and virtual culture. They identify with the looking self.

Despite that, you see girls with a mum or dad? I do. What kind of

conversation do you have, non-judgmental, I assume, but you

have to say, what the heck are you doing here? Well, it's a long

consultation and I think education is the basis of the consultation.

The bottom line is that an adolescent body is different from an

adult body and that goes in line with breasts, have you videos or

vaginas. -- vulvas and vaginas. The labia minora grow and it's different

in childhood as it is to adulthood. This is normal for 14, 15, that is

the message I get through. The outer lips then develop and in adulthood

they have a more balanced appearance and the minora don't look as

prominent, that is the small lips. It's about education, that actually

you are normal. Woe don't want to turn a normal structure into

abnormal by operating on it too early because then it goes on to

grow and develop and then you can get puckering, pain, the long-term

outcomes. I tell them, I don't want you to be unhappy in adulthood. Do

you think this procedure should be banned on under 18s full stop?

Absolutely. Do you? It's quite clear, yes, except for the odd one

that Dr Busby was saying for perhaps significant congenital

abnormalities, that's different but it's very, very rare so we should be

saying labiaplasty should be banned on under-18s. Do you agree? Yes. We

should think more carefully about all of the beauty practices. One of

the reasons we worry about labiaplasty is the other things like

pubic hair removal which is standard and changes how vaginas look, wee

need to think about nit the whole, as well as the separate procedure.

What is happening in labiaplasty is extreme as a broader tend trend and

we need to think about the trend. Fiona says, I hope my daughters will

be confident in how they look. Already one is tall and slender, the

other heavier. I dread them wanting to change anything. They are

healthy. It's ourself job to make parents strong, stable well adjusted

adults. Parents and children need to cooperate honestly. As a parent, you

shouldn't step away from responsibility. Chunky money Kai on

Twitter, the blame is to do with pornography and son-in-law media.

What society are we living in within a nine-year-old girl worries about

how her vagina looks and wants it changing -- social media. It's very,

very worrying. This raising of awareness will hopefully help in

terms of parents' confidence in talking to their children, would you

hope? Yes, I do. The other thing that is important is, the labia are

sensitive, there is a nerve supply. If you reduce it, you may have a

significant effect on the girl's future, sexual function and

satisfaction, we need to get that message across too. Labia are

important for good sexual function. I'm not sure how that would go down

with a 13-year-old girl. That's the thing, they can't conceptualise it,

so you are telling them something that is abstract to them. When you

say to a girl and her mum, I mean is it always mum who is come with the

girls or the dads sometimes? Mums, yes. When you say it's absolutely

normal, how do they react generally? I think by the end of the

consultation, there are often tears, but by the end of it, they

understand. They understand the reason why I've said what I've said

and I do give the example that the doctor did in the film where if

someone of your age went to a breast surgeon to require breast surgery,

you wouldn't have surgery because everyone could understand that that

is not a sensible thing to do because the breasts need to carry on

growing. The same for the labia. When you link it on to something

they understand that is more obvious, they understand it.

Interestingly of all the girls I've seen, so I always say, you know,

reassess things at 18 and if you are still unhappy, get another opinion.

Of all the girls, only one's ever come back. That again reflects

what's happened in the film, the development is complete and they

realise, hang on, I am normal. Hannah on Twitter says I had this op

as a teen, I would have mutilated myself if I hadn't had it. So more

needs to be done to promote what is healthy and what is normal. This

texter says, as a dad of three girls I found your piece on intimate

surgery for young girls disturbing. What is also disturbing and may be

contributing is the way female perfection for men has changed over

the years. Natalie says, how can you compare FGM with cosmetic surgery

which is by choice and not performed on children, I'm sure the number of

girls requiring this is minute in terms of the population. It is but

the whole point is the NHS says they are carried out for medical reasons

and the experts here believe medical reasons are so rare that it can't

amount to 200 operations in one year.

John says I've been getting concern over all forms of media on the

subject. After hearing about girls having operations on their private

parts for looks, it is outrageous. These girls have no idea how easy it

is for images to be fake, and they believe what they C. Thank you all

for coming on the programme. -- believe what they see.

Speaking out about Rotherham - we talk to one of the victims

of the abuse ring who has never spoken publicly

She says she's been failed countless times by the police.

And as Andy Murray takes to Centre Court at Wimbledon, we will be

hearing from former British Tennis stars Jo Durie and David Lloyd.

With the News here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

The Foreign Secretary's added his voice to the growing calls

from within the Cabinet for Theresa May to lift

the 1% cap on pay rises for public sector workers.

The limit is due to be in place until 2020.

But a government source said Boris Johnson "strongly" believed

pay rises could be achieved without putting undue pressure

Figures out today show that for the first time in nearly

a decade, more nurses and midwives are leaving

the profession in the UK, than joining it.

In the year to March 2017, 20% more staff left

the register run by the Nursing and Midwifery Council

than signed up to it - with British nurses quitting

The Department of Health says there's a national programme

The energy regulator, Ofgem, has announced plans to limit gas

and electricity bills for more people on low incomes.

The regulator says it will be consulting on how best to protect

the most vulnerable customers from high prices, and around

2 million people could face lower bills as a result.

They've also announced plans to make switching energy suppliers easier.

The Unite union says Bank of England workers are to stage a four-day

strike from the 31st of July in a dispute over pay.

The Union said staff were angry they have been given a below

inflation pay offer for the second year running with up to a third

of workers will receive no pay rise at all this year.

Up to 18 people are unaccounted for and feared dead after a tour bus

collided with a lorry on a moderate close to a town in Bavaria in

southern Germany. It was carrying elderly passengers and two drivers

when it crashed in a traffic jam. That's a summary of the latest

news - join me for BBC These are our headlines

this morning: The gates have opened

at the All England Club, it's the start of Wimbledon

fortnight, so those who have queued for days outside

will get their reward with a seat They are entering in a very orderly

fashion. The defending champion

Andy Murray has arrived these are the latest pictures,

he is practicing ahead of his first These are the very latest pictures

from this morning. He is practising this morning. All eyes on that left

hip, which he has been struggling with for the last couple of weeks.

The world number one, has had to pull out of a couple of exhibition

events, facing the world number 134, Alexander Bublik. Johanna Konta also

place today on Court 1. It's Stage Three of

the Tour de France today. Welshman Geraint Thomas

is still in the leaders yellow jersey despite getting caught up

in this crash yesterday. Tour Champion Chris Froome also went

down but he is sixth overall as the tour heads into

France from Belgium. The Open starts in just over two

weeks and Tommy Fleetwood is hitting The Englishman who came fourth

at the US Open last month, This year's Open is at

Royal Birkdale which is in his Some breaking cricket news in the

last couple of minutes. The South African captain Faf du Plessis will

miss the first Test against England at Lord's which starts on Thursday,

because of family reasons, Victoria. That is all your sport and I will be

back with a lot more after 11 o'clock BBC News. Thank you very

much, Olly. It is 10:37am. After years of being suppressed

by local authorities, the grooming, abuse and trafficking of young -

mostly white - girls in the town of Rochdale came

to the public attention in 2012. Gangs of men, predominantly

of Pakistani origin, preyed on vulnerable girls

by initially offering them drink, drugs and gifts, before raping

and prostituting them. A culture of victim blaming and -

some have said - an eagerness not to appear racist meant police

and social services were often unwilling to take the rumours of

widespread exploitation seriously. Greater Manchester Police later

apologised and admitted there had been a "complete lack

of understanding" of child exploitation in Rochdale

and a failure to recognise A documentary called Betrayed Girls,

which will be broadcast tonight on BBC One, claims police were told

that sexual grooming was going on in Manchester

as far back as 2003. This was systematic

organised sexual abuse. They weren't just picking one

child out of the ether. These were groups of children that

were being targeted, and it was like a production line,

you know, one and then another. So what was happening

to all these children now? Who was dealing with

this kind of crime? I was told at four o'clock

on a Friday afternoon that the police were no longer

"going to use" this girl. And with me now is Maggie Oliver,

who you saw in that clip - she is a former GMP detective

constable who was key in exposing Also with us, "Laura,"

who was a victim of the Rochdale ring from the age

of 13 until she was 17. She has never spoken publicly

about her story before. As she is a victim of abuse,

we are protecting her identity. And Jonathan Bridge,

a lawyer acting on behalf of around a dozen victims of the abuse

in Rochdale, including "Laura." As you would expect with this

subject matter, some of what we will discuss will be frank and also

graphic. Thank you, all of you, for coming on the programme.

Laura, you were barely 13 when you became a victim

Can you explain to us how it started?

Basically, I come from a large family, without a mother, just a

father. So it was basically, like, I got easily led into things, when

people were buying things and taking me out, showing me love basically.

As and when they were treating me nice, I never got that at home, so

for Christmas, I would get the ball and so on, but these people would be

buying expensive necklaces, phones, money, so it just got into that, and

I thought they were right friends, which now obviously I know that they

were not. It not only went from having money and phones, it was then

having to have sex with not one, not two, but more of their friends, and

then it became like a vicious circle of the grooming. On one occasion,

when you were 14, you were driven out to the moors on your own by a