14/08/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


14/08/2017

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 14/08/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

It's nine o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling.

:00:00.:00:11.

Urgent action is needed to deal with thousands of prisoners

:00:12.:00:21.

still serving time on indeterminate sentences where they are still

:00:22.:00:24.

inside years after the jail term they were given.

:00:25.:00:26.

I don't like getting up in the morning, because I don't know what

:00:27.:00:35.

is going to happen. There might be a phone call. A phone call to say

:00:36.:00:42.

what? That he took his own life, I think that is what is going to

:00:43.:00:44.

happen if we can't get him out. We'll hear from the families

:00:45.:00:47.

of two men who have been in prison for years longer

:00:48.:00:50.

than their original sentence. Rallies and vigils in cities

:00:51.:00:52.

across America to condemn the violence and hatred seen

:00:53.:00:55.

in Charlottesville Virgina at the weekend when white

:00:56.:01:01.

supremicists and anti-fascists The American vice president

:01:02.:01:03.

Mike Pence has condemned far right protestors

:01:04.:01:06.

over the violence. We have no tolerance for hate

:01:07.:01:10.

and violence from white These dangerous fringe groups have

:01:11.:01:12.

no place in American public life and the American public debate

:01:13.:01:22.

and we condemn them And 70 years ago 200 years

:01:23.:01:24.

of British colonial rule in India came to an end when the country

:01:25.:01:36.

was partitioned into Pakistan and India -

:01:37.:01:39.

hundreds of thousands of people were killed as violence

:01:40.:01:41.

erupted on both sides. We will talk to two families

:01:42.:01:43.

about what it meant for them Welcome to the programme,

:01:44.:01:46.

we're live until 11 this morning. Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:47.:02:00.

we're talking about today - including the news of a big increase

:02:01.:02:03.

in the number of people being arrested for being drunk

:02:04.:02:06.

at airports or on flights. If you work in the travel industry

:02:07.:02:11.

and have experienced drunk passengers or if you're a traveller

:02:12.:02:17.

with views on whether licensing laws should be changed -

:02:18.:02:20.

do get in contact. Use the hashtag Victoria Live

:02:21.:02:22.

and if you text, you will be charged The US Vice President, Mike Pence,

:02:23.:02:25.

has responded to the weekend's deadly violence at a white

:02:26.:02:30.

supremacist rally in Virginia - by saying he condemns

:02:31.:02:33.

white supremacists "in A vigil was held in Charlottesville

:02:34.:02:34.

last night to remember Heather Heyer, who was killed

:02:35.:02:41.

during the protests. 19 others were injured when a car

:02:42.:02:43.

was driven into a crowd President Trump has been criticised

:02:44.:02:46.

for failing to speak out Our Washington Correspondent Laura

:02:47.:02:51.

Bicker has this report. The candles and songs

:02:52.:02:58.

are for Heather Heyer, who died standing up

:02:59.:03:04.

for what she believed in. After a weekend of deadly

:03:05.:03:09.

violence and anger on the streets, there is now

:03:10.:03:23.

a longing to come together Heather was one of the

:03:24.:03:25.

demonstrators trying to stop white supremacists marching

:03:26.:03:29.

through Charlottesville on Saturday. She was killed when

:03:30.:03:30.

this car ploughed Her close friend now

:03:31.:03:32.

appeals for unity. I want everybody to get together

:03:33.:03:36.

and unite and spread love and spread peace and spread happiness

:03:37.:03:41.

and don't let hate live. Don't just let someone

:03:42.:03:44.

walk away freely Tell them that that's not

:03:45.:03:46.

OK, that it's not OK. One of the organisers

:03:47.:03:53.

of the Unite The Right rally And as he left,

:03:54.:03:55.

he was forced to flee. Armed police had to

:03:56.:04:04.

escort him from the city. He's condemned the

:04:05.:04:10.

violence but says he I feel like my First Amendment

:04:11.:04:11.

rights and the rights of the people at my

:04:12.:04:24.

rally were violated. But there is no sympathy here for

:04:25.:04:28.

those who brought hate to the city. Laura Bicker, BBC News,

:04:29.:04:31.

Charlottesville. Rachel Schofield is in the BBC

:04:32.:04:35.

Newsroom with a summary The chairman of the Parole Board

:04:36.:04:38.

Nick Hardwick says ministers "must act now" to address the backlog

:04:39.:04:44.

of prisoners serving The sentence, known as Imprisonment

:04:45.:04:48.

for Public Protection, or IPP, was abolished in 2012 but more

:04:49.:04:57.

than 3000 people in England and Wales are still being held

:04:58.:05:00.

with no release date. The Ministry of Justice says it's

:05:01.:05:02.

working to process these cases And we'll have more on that

:05:03.:05:05.

story in a few minutes. Arrests of passengers suspected

:05:06.:05:12.

of being drunk at UK airports and on flights have risen

:05:13.:05:14.

by 50% in the past year, according to an investigation

:05:15.:05:17.

carried out by Panorama. Critics of the airline industry say

:05:18.:05:20.

a voluntary code on alcohol sales isn't working,

:05:21.:05:23.

and want the government A spokesman for the Home Office said

:05:24.:05:25.

they will respond in due course. A man has been charged

:05:26.:05:35.

with the murder of a grandfather who was attacked as he walked his

:05:36.:05:37.

dogs in Norfolk. The body of 83-year-old

:05:38.:05:43.

Peter Wrighton was found in woodland near the village

:05:44.:05:45.

of East Harling last Saturday. Police say he had been

:05:46.:05:48.

repeatedly stabbed. Alexander Palmer, who's 23,

:05:49.:05:49.

is due in court later today. Armed officers in the UK's biggest

:05:50.:05:55.

police force are to be issued They will be attached

:05:56.:05:58.

to the caps and protective helmets of members of

:05:59.:06:02.

the Metropolitan Police's Scotland Yard has yet to decide

:06:03.:06:04.

on how to use body-worn cameras Security forces in Burkina Faso have

:06:05.:06:11.

killed two suspected jihadist gunmen after a terrorist attack

:06:12.:06:19.

in the capital. The country's communications

:06:20.:06:20.

minister says a number of hostages were trapped inside a restaurant

:06:21.:06:22.

after gunmen opened At least 18 people are believed

:06:23.:06:24.

to have been killed in the attack South Korea's President has urged

:06:25.:06:32.

both the US and North Korea to act reasonably and peacefully

:06:33.:06:42.

in the current nuclear stand off. Moon Jae-in said, "There must be no

:06:43.:06:49.

more war on the Korean Peninsula". His comments come after a week of

:06:50.:06:54.

ratcheting up of tensions by the US He's due to meet America's most

:06:55.:06:57.

senior military officer later today. Up to 140,000 vulnerable children

:06:58.:07:12.

did not receive the help they needed last year

:07:13.:07:14.

because their situation was not judged to be serious enough,

:07:15.:07:16.

according to Action for Children. The charity has found thousands

:07:17.:07:19.

of young people referred to social services did not end up getting any

:07:20.:07:21.

support before their The government says its reforms

:07:22.:07:24.

will improve the situation. Debbie has been working

:07:25.:07:27.

in children's services for 16 years and helps families with anything

:07:28.:07:30.

from behavioural problems But she says it's become harder

:07:31.:07:32.

to provide the support they need. I've got, across the sites I run,

:07:33.:07:41.

I've got just under 2,500 under fives and three

:07:42.:07:47.

members of staff, so as much as we do,

:07:48.:07:50.

there's a lot that we can't possibly do because we can't be

:07:51.:07:53.

everywhere at once. We're already aware of families

:07:54.:07:55.

that we're not picking up in the same way and it's only

:07:56.:08:01.

going to get worse from that. A freedom of information request

:08:02.:08:06.

to local authorities found that last year, 184,500 children's needs

:08:07.:08:11.

assessments were closed because they fell short

:08:12.:08:14.

of the criteria for support. The charity Action For Children

:08:15.:08:20.

says only around one in four families received early help

:08:21.:08:22.

services such as children's centres We know from too many cases

:08:23.:08:24.

that if we're not able to help children early,

:08:25.:08:32.

that there are strong likelihoods For example, in serious

:08:33.:08:34.

case reviews, 70% of the time we know that there

:08:35.:08:39.

have been early warning signs But we also know that if we give

:08:40.:08:42.

children and families the tools to help themselves much earlier,

:08:43.:08:47.

then they're much more likely not to need help

:08:48.:08:49.

later on in any case. The local government association

:08:50.:08:51.

blames government cuts But the Department

:08:52.:08:53.

for Education says it's taking action to support vulnerable

:08:54.:08:58.

children by reforming social care services and better

:08:59.:09:00.

protecting victims It says councils spent almost

:09:01.:09:02.

?8 billion last year on children's social care,

:09:03.:09:06.

but it wants to help them do more. Pakistan is celebrating the 70th

:09:07.:09:09.

anniversary of its creation There were fireworks at midnight

:09:10.:09:15.

to mark the moment of partition from India at the end

:09:16.:09:22.

of British colonial rule. The partition of British India

:09:23.:09:27.

in 1947 was marked by the largest mass migration in history,

:09:28.:09:31.

with huge bloodshed on both sides. The American space agency's Cassini

:09:32.:09:36.

probe has begun the final phase The satellite has begun a series

:09:37.:09:39.

of "ultra-close" passes through Scientists are hoping it will reveal

:09:40.:09:44.

more about the chemical make-up and internal structure

:09:45.:09:50.

of the planet. It is either Billy one of the most

:09:51.:10:02.

distinctive sounds in the world -- it is arguably one of the most.

:10:03.:10:16.

However, next Monday at midday Big Ben will chime for the final

:10:17.:10:32.

time until 2021 to allow repair work to take place on the clock

:10:33.:10:35.

The bells will still ring out on Remembrance Sunday

:10:36.:10:38.

and at New Year but will otherwise fall silent for only

:10:39.:10:41.

Experts have suggested removing soot and repairing the bell in the clock

:10:42.:10:45.

could change the frequency of the soundwaves and even

:10:46.:10:47.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 930am.

:10:48.:10:51.

Let's get some sport with Hugh Ferris.

:10:52.:10:53.

Let's start with athletics and a string of medals over

:10:54.:10:55.

the weekend saw Great Britain reach their medal target.

:10:56.:10:58.

If you had asked me on Saturday morning I would have said not

:10:59.:11:03.

particularly brilliant, but now you are asking me on Monday night I

:11:04.:11:06.

would say quite impressive. The medal target was 5-8 and so they got

:11:07.:11:12.

six in the end, and four of those came over the weekend. Five in the

:11:13.:11:17.

last 48 hours if you include Mo Farah, but the women's four by 400

:11:18.:11:24.

metres have the won a medal in each of the last five championships. And

:11:25.:11:29.

then there was a bronze for the men's Quartet. Martyn Rooney on the

:11:30.:11:39.

last leg there. The relay medals papered over the cracks, some would

:11:40.:11:44.

say, after it was a disappointing championships and till then, but

:11:45.:11:50.

they have been very much investing time and money on the relay squad

:11:51.:11:56.

and it has paid dividends. It is a very young team, as well. You have

:11:57.:12:01.

to look at many fourth-place achievements by young athletes who

:12:02.:12:07.

will use this as a jumping off point for what will come in the next three

:12:08.:12:08.

years. How did Tom Bosworth get

:12:09.:12:11.

on in the 20 kilometre walk? Many people remember him from the

:12:12.:12:18.

Victoria Derbyshire programme when he came out as being gay, a very

:12:19.:12:23.

emotional time for him a couple of years ago, and it was very emotional

:12:24.:12:25.

for him yesterday, he was disqualified while leading in the 20

:12:26.:12:34.

kilometres walk. You basically get three red cards and then you are

:12:35.:12:37.

out, and there he is, he was devastated. He had to be

:12:38.:12:43.

disqualified from the race. He was very upset afterwards. This is just

:12:44.:12:49.

the beginning. These bad days happened but they make the good day

:12:50.:12:55.

's taste really good and the support I've had from everyone, I'm sorry...

:12:56.:13:02.

I've let them down and I can get a medal, but I know I can get a medal

:13:03.:13:09.

one-day. I won't be complacent, I've got to work hard and come out and

:13:10.:13:14.

show what Eichenried do. Such a shame, but he will go on to bigger

:13:15.:13:22.

and better things few -- show what I can really do.

:13:23.:13:30.

And Usain Bolt and MO Farah said their goodbyes yesterday?

:13:31.:13:36.

Usain Bolt was given a piece of the 2012 track, the Lane in which he won

:13:37.:13:44.

the 100 metres five years ago. He has said he will now spend time

:13:45.:13:51.

having some fun. Not like he hadn't had any for the last ten years for

:13:52.:13:57.

the Mo Farah departed with strong and angry words, saying part of the

:13:58.:14:02.

media had tried to destroy his legacy, concerning his relationship

:14:03.:14:07.

with his coach Alberto Salazar, who is being investigated by the US

:14:08.:14:12.

anti-doping agency. He has not been accused of anything wrong in terms

:14:13.:14:16.

of doping, but Mo Farah was not pleased that his legacy might be

:14:17.:14:20.

tarnished. I will still keep fighting and working hard and making

:14:21.:14:25.

my country proud, and I'm proud to be British and put my GB vest on and

:14:26.:14:28.

do it for my country. You can write what you like, but at the same time,

:14:29.:14:35.

I'm a clean athlete and as long as I sleep well at night and laughing my

:14:36.:14:43.

children, showing what's right, that is what counts -- loving. He is so

:14:44.:14:58.

going to be known as Mohammed Farah now.

:14:59.:15:00.

Away from the athletics, there was an unlikely winner

:15:01.:15:02.

Yes, his name is Justin Thomas. He was known for his sartorial

:15:03.:15:13.

elegance, but he is an American. And this is one of his six birdies on

:15:14.:15:18.

his final-round 68. Trust me, that was one of his six birdies. He walks

:15:19.:15:28.

away, and then he finds that a gust of wind is on his side and in it

:15:29.:15:35.

goes. It was very dramatic, at 1.5 players shared the lead. -- at one

:15:36.:15:44.

point five players. He is one of a new group of Americans, along with

:15:45.:15:47.

the likes of Jordan Spieth, who failed to become the youngest ever

:15:48.:15:53.

player to win a golfing grand slam. They are good friends and they will

:15:54.:15:57.

be a real challenge to the likes of Rory McIlroy in the years to come,

:15:58.:16:00.

but once again a new winner of a major tournament. Watch out for

:16:01.:16:09.

Justin Thomas and his 14 seconds putt. Thanks for joining us.

:16:10.:16:14.

One person has written to us to say, why don't they close the bars at

:16:15.:16:22.

airports, it is just profits that keep them going. Each traveller

:16:23.:16:27.

could buy in airports but not be allowed to have it until they land

:16:28.:16:31.

at their destination and it would be much easier to ban it altogether,

:16:32.:16:38.

they say. Let us know what you think about thinking on planes. --

:16:39.:16:40.

drinking. 11 years ago today James Ward

:16:41.:16:46.

was given a 10 month He is still inside and still

:16:47.:16:48.

has no release date. He is serving what's

:16:49.:16:52.

known as an indeterminate sentence called an IPP -

:16:53.:16:53.

Imprisonment for Public Protection. Labour introduced them in 2003

:16:54.:16:56.

and thought they would apply to a few hundred serious violent

:16:57.:16:58.

and sexual offenders. Ken Clarke - when he was

:16:59.:17:00.

the Justice Secretary - called them a "stain"

:17:01.:17:05.

on the criminal justice Let's talk to Zoe Conway who's been

:17:06.:17:07.

investigating this for us. We will be discussing self harm

:17:08.:17:22.

within this section of the programme, so you may find that

:17:23.:17:28.

upsetting and distressing. Imprisonment for Public Protection

:17:29.:17:32.

was brought in by Labour in 2005 but abolished in 2012. It wasn't

:17:33.:17:40.

retroactive which means there are still thousands of people in prison

:17:41.:17:44.

on the sentence. At its peak there were 6000 IPP prisoners. Now there

:17:45.:17:58.

are 3300. 85% of them have already served the minimum sentence or

:17:59.:18:01.

tariff. This is what is called the punishment bit of the sentence.

:18:02.:18:06.

They've already done that bit of the sentence and yet they are still in

:18:07.:18:09.

prison. In terms of how over the tariff they are, we are looking at

:18:10.:18:16.

465 prisoners who were given two years or less, who are now serving

:18:17.:18:24.

many more years than that. 465 had served at least five years on top of

:18:25.:18:30.

that tariff. We are talking about some people who have served an

:18:31.:18:34.

extraordinary length of time. 48 prisoners have in fact served more

:18:35.:18:41.

than ten years over their minimum. They might have got in the case of

:18:42.:18:46.

James Ward, ten months. And yet 11 years later, he is still in prison.

:18:47.:18:51.

This is what is causing such concern amongst prison campaigners. This

:18:52.:18:56.

morning we heard from Nick Hardwick the chairman of the parole board and

:18:57.:19:00.

he is urging the government to act. He's been calling on them for the

:19:01.:19:05.

last year to get a grip on this. He wants to put the burden of proof on

:19:06.:19:10.

the state, on the present system, to prove that these prisoners still

:19:11.:19:17.

pose a serious risk. At the moment you get towards the end of your

:19:18.:19:21.

tariff, you have to show a parole board you are no longer a risk. Many

:19:22.:19:26.

people including Ken Clarke and Nick Hardwick, also including Michael

:19:27.:19:30.

Gove, are saying how can a prison prove they are no longer a risk? It

:19:31.:19:35.

has to be up to the state to decide that. Nick Hardwick feels the parole

:19:36.:19:40.

board has made some progress, 900 people have been released in the

:19:41.:19:46.

last year but now it's up to the government to move things along. Why

:19:47.:19:50.

is it taking so long? There are many reasons but part of the problem is

:19:51.:19:54.

because there are so many more people in prison than was ever in

:19:55.:19:58.

visit, the system can't cope. They are supposed to be able to access

:19:59.:20:03.

courses to reduce their risk, there are huge waiting lists for these

:20:04.:20:08.

courses. Then they have a parole board hearing, they have to do

:20:09.:20:13.

another course and they get stuck. Last week, I spent time with the

:20:14.:20:20.

family of James Ward who went to visit him in prison. I spent the day

:20:21.:20:25.

with them and we filmed with them. It was rather distressing because

:20:26.:20:29.

James has been self harming. This film contains some quite distressing

:20:30.:20:30.

scenes. It's been a while since

:20:31.:20:35.

we have seen him last. I don't think we have

:20:36.:20:38.

seen him this year. Bill and Christine

:20:39.:20:41.

Ward are preparing themselves to visit

:20:42.:20:43.

their son in prison. He has been locked up

:20:44.:20:45.

for the last 11 years. They don't know what to

:20:46.:20:47.

expect when they see him. I think this is the worst

:20:48.:20:51.

year I have ever done with James, because it is touch

:20:52.:20:58.

and go, kind of thing. One minute he's up,

:20:59.:21:03.

the next minute he is down. He is like us, he doesn't

:21:04.:21:07.

know where he is. When James was 17, he went to prison

:21:08.:21:17.

for a year for assault. Near the end of his

:21:18.:21:20.

sentence, he set fire For doing this, a judge

:21:21.:21:22.

gave him an IPP, or imprisonment for

:21:23.:21:26.

public protection, and said he should serve

:21:27.:21:27.

a minimum of ten months. It really does get to you,

:21:28.:21:32.

you can't sleep at night. You get up, have a cup

:21:33.:21:41.

of tea, it still I can't remember when I proper

:21:42.:21:45.

laughed, the last time I laughed. I don't know what it is

:21:46.:21:57.

like to have a good time James wanted to write to us

:21:58.:22:06.

but he is not allowed pens I was rushed to

:22:07.:22:16.

hospital last week as I feel ill treated and I'm still not

:22:17.:22:21.

getting anywhere after all these I have spoken to my sister recently

:22:22.:22:28.

and she was in tears I am trying so hard to stay

:22:29.:22:32.

as strong as possible but I couldn't promise her that I wouldn't

:22:33.:22:41.

do something stupid. He shoved a pen in his arm

:22:42.:22:51.

so he went to hospital for that, Basically James is saying that

:22:52.:22:54.

when he is crying out for help, he is not getting any

:22:55.:22:58.

and that is why we are so dedicated, you know, to getting him home

:22:59.:23:01.

because we have got 100% dedication. James is just a number to them,

:23:02.:23:04.

you know, he is family member, he is my brother, we can look

:23:05.:23:07.

after him, we can get him the right help, you know,

:23:08.:23:10.

and every day we could be with him and step-by-step

:23:11.:23:14.

we can get him there. In order to be released,

:23:15.:23:15.

IPP prisoners must prove to a parole board that they are no longer

:23:16.:23:18.

a risk to society. That might sound straightforward

:23:19.:23:20.

but many have struggled to access the programmes designed

:23:21.:23:23.

to reduce that risk. Some people watching this will say,

:23:24.:23:25.

he must have done things in prison to deserve him being kept there this

:23:26.:23:31.

long, that this 11 years has to be for reason,

:23:32.:23:34.

it has to be his fault. I can't stress enough

:23:35.:23:40.

how untrue that is. A mattress fire, you know, a piece

:23:41.:23:43.

of paper has been set on fire, James has chucked his bed

:23:44.:23:46.

about around his cell a little bit. This does not, I can't stress

:23:47.:23:49.

enough, he's not dangerous, he has never been violent in the 11

:23:50.:23:52.

years in prison. The officers said that they never

:23:53.:23:54.

feel unsafe around James. James' parole hearings have

:23:55.:24:00.

been delayed repeatedly because the prison service has

:24:01.:24:03.

failed to carry out vital His upcoming hearing in September

:24:04.:24:05.

is more than a year behind schedule. I dread getting up in the morning

:24:06.:24:13.

because I don't know what is going to be coming

:24:14.:24:16.

that they, what is going to happen. Is there going to be

:24:17.:24:19.

a knock on the door, is there going to be a phone

:24:20.:24:21.

call or whatever? Took his own life and that is

:24:22.:24:24.

what I believe he will do. If we can't get him out, I think

:24:25.:24:30.

that's what it's going to be. This is the first visit

:24:31.:24:33.

by James' family since James feels so unsafe on the main

:24:34.:24:53.

wing here at Garth Prison that he deliberately behaves badly

:24:54.:25:00.

to get himself to put The Chief Inspector of Prisons

:25:01.:25:02.

wrote a damning report It was called very unsafe

:25:03.:25:08.

and the segregation unit was said to be fellow

:25:09.:25:15.

prisoners seeking sanctuary. The living conditions were very poor

:25:16.:25:17.

and the staff overwhelmed. He is not sleeping,

:25:18.:25:25.

he has lost weight... Pippa Carruthers has

:25:26.:25:34.

been representing James She says key paperwork

:25:35.:25:35.

is still missing. So the parole board is meant to meet

:25:36.:25:41.

on the 6th of September, how optimistic are you that the board

:25:42.:25:44.

is actually going to be able to make a decision

:25:45.:25:46.

about what to do with James? We are now less than a month away

:25:47.:25:51.

from the hearing where potentially the parole board will still not

:25:52.:25:55.

have the information it needs in order to make

:25:56.:25:58.

a thorough realistic decision about whether James can be

:25:59.:26:00.

managed in the community. A further knock back,

:26:01.:26:06.

particularly in circumstances where I will have to explain to him

:26:07.:26:09.

that some of the reasons are because of things that haven't

:26:10.:26:12.

been available or done thoroughly enough or made available

:26:13.:26:14.

to the parole board will be extremely difficult for him

:26:15.:26:17.

to understand and to take. James' family may have got used

:26:18.:26:26.

to hearing about his self harming, but they are unprepared for just how

:26:27.:26:28.

ill he looked on the visit. We've got in there, James looked

:26:29.:26:40.

absolutely terrible. His skin's yellow, he has

:26:41.:26:41.

lost so much weight. And they are just

:26:42.:26:44.

leaving him there to rot. This is not just about mental

:26:45.:26:49.

illness, he cannot cope in there. He was on a wing, he thought

:26:50.:26:55.

he was doing OK, they found out he was a IPP prisoner and that makes

:26:56.:26:58.

them vulnerable and then they want him to do silly things

:26:59.:27:02.

and if he doesn't cooperate So he's had separate himself

:27:03.:27:05.

against which means causing problems, causing trouble

:27:06.:27:09.

so obviously that looks bad for the fact that he has

:27:10.:27:12.

to misbehaves to get himself in the block, to protect himself,

:27:13.:27:15.

and then because he is on constant watch because of the self harm,

:27:16.:27:18.

he's literally sat behind a cage like an animal where they walk past

:27:19.:27:21.

and point and laugh at him. Let's talk now to James

:27:22.:27:30.

Ward's sister April - Lisa Ullah, who's brother -

:27:31.:27:43.

also called James is on an IPP. He was given a 4 year

:27:44.:27:47.

sentence for robbery, Mark Day is from the

:27:48.:27:49.

Prison Reform Trust and John Podmore's

:27:50.:27:53.

a former prison governor As we saw in the film there,

:27:54.:27:59.

James is in a really bad place You feel he is in a vicious cycle.

:28:00.:28:16.

Definitely. He's lost all hope. He's got nothing left. He's drained, he

:28:17.:28:21.

can't take any more. The hardest thing to accept is that James is

:28:22.:28:25.

doing nothing wrong. He's not got a mental illness to put him in

:28:26.:28:29.

hospital, but he's self harming and they say he's got a personality

:28:30.:28:34.

disorder. Nobody seems to want to help James reform and get better. Is

:28:35.:28:40.

he getting any treatment? No. He guessed tablets for ADHD but apart

:28:41.:28:44.

from that he gets no help. He's in segregation because he says he

:28:45.:28:47.

doesn't feel safe on the wing. He gets bullied. The prisoners don't

:28:48.:28:53.

lift you up, they target the fact you are suffering and that is very

:28:54.:28:56.

disturbing. Has he had a formal assessment of his mental state? No,

:28:57.:29:00.

we are still waiting for the assessment. That is why parole has

:29:01.:29:06.

been put back. Not only do psychiatric assessment, the

:29:07.:29:09.

probation officer hasn't done any reports or care plans. They've known

:29:10.:29:13.

for nearly three years that his parole was coming up, it's a year

:29:14.:29:17.

over tariff so he should have had the parole a year ago. It's been

:29:18.:29:22.

knocked back after knock-back, there's only so many times you can

:29:23.:29:26.

play with a man's freedom. He can't cope there. Because he's not fully

:29:27.:29:32.

mentally unwell he can't be hospitalised but he's at the point

:29:33.:29:35.

where he can't cope with prison life and he's self harming because of

:29:36.:29:40.

having no hope. He's fallen through the net and how should that be

:29:41.:29:44.

allowed, that James is left to rot in prison because he doesn't fit a

:29:45.:29:49.

category? This is a man's lies, they should be doing something for him.

:29:50.:29:53.

And if they don't want to, give him back to his family and let us deal

:29:54.:29:59.

with James and his problems. I'm no specialist but surely the fact that

:30:00.:30:03.

James is getting these anxieties and problems because of prison life. I

:30:04.:30:08.

hear what you are saying about the fact he wants to be out of the, he

:30:09.:30:14.

wants to be put into isolation to get out of where he is so he behaves

:30:15.:30:18.

in a way that gets him put in there. From the perspective of the prison

:30:19.:30:22.

authorities, if he is behaving like that and he's on one of these orders

:30:23.:30:26.

that is about public protection... They are minimal crimes. James is

:30:27.:30:31.

getting three years for doing minimal crime spot parole officers

:30:32.:30:33.

need to understand the environment he's living in. He's never been

:30:34.:30:37.

violent, the prison officers have never felt unsafe around him. He's

:30:38.:30:40.

not a risk to the public. What does he do to get sent there?

:30:41.:30:51.

He basically throws things around his cell and that is against the

:30:52.:30:55.

rules and he is put in segregation, and he remains there even when he is

:30:56.:30:59.

allowed to be out, he keeps himself down there because he can't cope in

:31:00.:31:05.

the hostile environment that it is in prison. Your brother James is

:31:06.:31:16.

also in on an indeterminate term. He was sentenced to a four-year IPP in

:31:17.:31:27.

2006 and he still remains now. 12 years in April, he was alongside

:31:28.:31:33.

other co-defendants and one of those got four years and did two years and

:31:34.:31:39.

one of them got five years and did two and a half years and another one

:31:40.:31:44.

got out early release ten months down the line and the last one got a

:31:45.:31:50.

12 month supervision. Why did he get the sentence he got? He is not an

:31:51.:31:57.

angel, he had a troubled upbringing, and I'm not saying what he did was

:31:58.:32:01.

right, he should be punished but the crime should reflect the punishment.

:32:02.:32:09.

He's not a murderer or a rapist or a paedophile, he has not done anything

:32:10.:32:14.

severe to be in this position. But these people are being released

:32:15.:32:20.

before an IPP prisoner. He is not a dog. He is a family member, my

:32:21.:32:28.

brother, someone cares about him. He is not just there to be forgotten

:32:29.:32:32.

about. They are pushed further and further in the system and they are

:32:33.:32:37.

left to rot. And that is where the mental health issues become a

:32:38.:32:44.

problem. Neither of you say that they should not have been punished.

:32:45.:32:51.

James Coppinger IPP for ten months for setting fire to a mattress and

:32:52.:33:00.

that happens daily in prison stash James got an Heather Heyer.

:33:01.:33:06.

They need support, they are not animals. The same with his parole,

:33:07.:33:13.

it is not his behaviour holding him back, but the authority don't have

:33:14.:33:16.

the care plans in place for him to be released, he needs the care plans

:33:17.:33:22.

and the psychiatric report in place for him to be released. These were

:33:23.:33:28.

introduced because of public protection and he did plead guilty

:33:29.:33:38.

to a crime of STUDIO: Involving knives? -- a crime involving knives?

:33:39.:33:47.

I don't think where knives has come from, I don't know anything about

:33:48.:33:53.

that. The way you get put down the block, setting fire to the

:33:54.:33:55.

mattresses and pieces of paper, James did that, he was then released

:33:56.:34:04.

from the ABH and was given the IPP for the mattress fire, and the only

:34:05.:34:08.

thing that has occurred is for him being bullied, he can't cope and he

:34:09.:34:12.

sets fire to pieces of paper and he messes up the cell Annie refuses to

:34:13.:34:17.

come out of the cell. -- and he refuses. There are many people in

:34:18.:34:23.

prison on these. They were meant to affect a small number of people but

:34:24.:34:27.

have gone on to affect thousands of people. How come they have been used

:34:28.:34:33.

so widely? When they were introduced in 2005 there was no proper planning

:34:34.:34:39.

to resource the sentence and predict how many people would end up coming

:34:40.:34:46.

under it. What was planned for about 900 people, turned into several

:34:47.:34:52.

thousand inmates and what this meant was that there wasn't the offending

:34:53.:34:55.

behaviour programmes available in prisons. And also the parole board

:34:56.:35:01.

wasn't equipped to deal with this number of indeterminate sentences.

:35:02.:35:09.

How can you tell if someone is a threat to the public, in terms of

:35:10.:35:13.

sentencing? This is part of the problem, when the sentence was

:35:14.:35:15.

created it could be imposed on a very long list of offences either

:35:16.:35:23.

violent or sexual offences. What about this one here? James set fire

:35:24.:35:30.

to a mattress in a prison cell. Arson is one of these offences which

:35:31.:35:39.

can come under the remit of the IPP. There was a large range of offences

:35:40.:35:42.

which it could cover and also there was a mandatory element where the

:35:43.:35:46.

judge had to impose it if it had been a second offence which had been

:35:47.:35:52.

committed. All these elements came together to mean that a large number

:35:53.:35:56.

of people received the IPP far greater than had been predicted and

:35:57.:36:01.

the parole board faced rate difficulties trying to resource this

:36:02.:36:08.

-- great difficulties. A number of changes to legal judgments which

:36:09.:36:12.

further placed pressure on the caseload and it meant we had longer

:36:13.:36:16.

parole board delays and it results in the situation we have today where

:36:17.:36:21.

despite the sentence being abolished in 2012, we still have over 3000

:36:22.:36:28.

people in prison serving the IPP. John, you are a former prison

:36:29.:36:35.

governor, what of these IPPs? They are a disgrace, Ken Clarke said they

:36:36.:36:38.

are a stain on the criminal justice system and they remain so. Important

:36:39.:36:43.

point, this is the only sentence of its kind that is sentencing people

:36:44.:36:47.

to incarceration is not for what they have done, but for what they

:36:48.:36:54.

might do. The onus has been put on someone to prove they are innocent

:36:55.:36:58.

and that is wholly inappropriate. How do you prove when you are locked

:36:59.:37:04.

up 23 hours a day and in some cases in segregation, how do you prove

:37:05.:37:08.

that you are safe. The prison system should not be doing harm and with

:37:09.:37:13.

this sentence it clearly is, from the examples you are showing. Is it

:37:14.:37:18.

justified that anyone who is still in prison on one of these, bearing

:37:19.:37:23.

in mind they were scrapped from any future prisoners? They have been

:37:24.:37:29.

abolished and Nick Hardwick has given sensible proposals on how

:37:30.:37:33.

these people might be released. Certainly reversing the test whereby

:37:34.:37:41.

the prisoner proving that he or she is safe to be released, the onus

:37:42.:37:45.

should be on the state and that should be on the prison service.

:37:46.:37:52.

When David Blunkett brought these sentences in, he was relying on

:37:53.:37:59.

amongst many things offending behaviour courses and they are still

:38:00.:38:05.

around as being the universal panacea. You have spoken about the

:38:06.:38:11.

litmus test in terms of whether people are safe to be released, but

:38:12.:38:15.

as we have seen with sex offender courses, it can be unproven and it

:38:16.:38:20.

can make things worse and many of them are not suitable for many

:38:21.:38:23.

people, especially those who have got learning difficulties and mental

:38:24.:38:29.

health problems. Given that the sentence has been abolished, Ken

:38:30.:38:32.

Clarke said it is a stain on the criminal justice system, it is down

:38:33.:38:37.

to the Secretary of State for Justice to show political courage

:38:38.:38:41.

and do something about this. It is within his gift. Reference has been

:38:42.:38:48.

made to Michael Gove, he was in the process of making some of these

:38:49.:38:51.

political decisions but then he was sacked. We have had one minister

:38:52.:38:59.

after another. And we hear nothing at the moment, and it is about time

:39:00.:39:03.

that we did. Thank you all very much. We asked the Justice Secretary

:39:04.:39:09.

and the Parliamentary Undersecretary for prisons and probation to come on

:39:10.:39:15.

the programme. They said in a statement they are determined to

:39:16.:39:17.

address the challenge. Here's Rachel in the BBC Newsroom

:39:18.:39:38.

with a summary of today's news. The US Vice President, Mike Pence,

:39:39.:40:11.

has condemned far-right groups in response to the violence over

:40:12.:40:14.

the weekend in Virginia. A woman was killed and 19

:40:15.:40:18.

people were injured when a car was driven into a crowd

:40:19.:40:20.

protesting against a far-right rally Demonstrations and vigils

:40:21.:40:23.

have been held in cities The chairman of the Parole Board,

:40:24.:40:26.

Nick Hardwick says ministers "must act now" to address the backlog

:40:27.:40:30.

of prisoners serving The sentence - known as Imprisonment

:40:31.:40:32.

for Public Protection - was abolished in 2012 but more

:40:33.:40:36.

than 3,000 people in England and Wales are still being held

:40:37.:40:38.

with no release date. The Ministry of Justice says it's

:40:39.:40:41.

working to process these cases Arrests of passengers suspected

:40:42.:40:43.

of being drunk at UK airports and on flights have risen by 50%

:40:44.:40:47.

in the past year, according to an investigation

:40:48.:40:50.

carried out by Panorama. Critics of the airline industry say

:40:51.:40:51.

a voluntary code on alcohol sales isn't working,

:40:52.:40:54.

and want the government A spokesman for the Home Office said

:40:55.:40:56.

they will respond in due course. A man has been charged

:40:57.:41:00.

with the murder of a grandfather who was attacked as he walked his

:41:01.:41:02.

dogs in Norfolk. The body of 83-year-old

:41:03.:41:05.

Peter Wrighton was found in woodland near the village

:41:06.:41:07.

of East Harling last Saturday. Police say he had been

:41:08.:41:09.

repeatedly stabbed. Alexander Palmer, who's 23,

:41:10.:41:11.

is due in court later today. South Korea's President has urged

:41:12.:41:21.

both the US and North Korea to act reasonably and peacefully

:41:22.:41:24.

in the current nuclear stand off. Moon Jae-in said, "There

:41:25.:41:26.

must be no more war His comments come after a week of

:41:27.:41:29.

ratcheting up of tensions by the US His comments come as China tightened

:41:30.:41:33.

sanctions on North Korea - banning several key industrial

:41:34.:41:37.

imports from the country. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:41:38.:41:45.

News - more at 10am. The Charity Commission has

:41:46.:41:48.

issued its first-ever "official warning" to a charity over the way

:41:49.:41:50.

it spends its money. The National Hereditary Breast

:41:51.:41:56.

Cancer Helpline has been spending as little as 3%

:41:57.:42:00.

of the money you give it on raising awareness

:42:01.:42:03.

and the helpline that it runs. The rest goes on things

:42:04.:42:05.

like management costs and overheads. The trustee who set up the charity

:42:06.:42:07.

has also paid herself ?31,000, The Charity Commission

:42:08.:42:10.

is a government body which registers There are more than 167,000

:42:11.:42:14.

individual charities in England and Wales,

:42:15.:42:21.

raising around ?73 billion a year. Let's speak to the BBC Radio

:42:22.:42:27.

Manchester's Kate West, who first Kate, tell us about this

:42:28.:42:30.

breast cancer helpline. The helpline was set up in the 90s

:42:31.:42:39.

by a campaign called Wendy Watson, the first woman in the UK to have a

:42:40.:42:41.

the first woman in the UK to have a pre-emptive double must -- Max

:42:42.:42:55.

She started a helpline after becoming the first woman

:42:56.:42:57.

in the UK to have a pre-emptive double mastectomy, like the one

:42:58.:43:00.

The surgery reduces your chances of getting breast cancer.

:43:01.:43:03.

The phone line is aimed at men and women who have a faulty gene

:43:04.:43:06.

that makes them more likely to develop breast cancer.

:43:07.:43:09.

In 2012 she started a charity to raise money for her helpline

:43:10.:43:11.

and was later awarded an MBE for her work.

:43:12.:43:14.

So why has this charity been given this official warning?

:43:15.:43:17.

The Charity Commission got involved after noticing

:43:18.:43:18.

that the charity behind the helpline was in financial difficulty.

:43:19.:43:27.

When you go through their accounts, like I've done, the amounts spent

:43:28.:43:34.

year on year are as little as 6%, 3.4% and just 2.8% of its donations

:43:35.:43:37.

The average charity spends 83%, so in comparison,

:43:38.:43:40.

When the charity commission first investigated the helpline

:43:41.:43:45.

they found they were poorly managing their finances

:43:46.:43:51.

and discovered that Watson had been paying herself from the charity

:43:52.:43:56.

And then when the commission went back a few months later,

:43:57.:44:04.

the finances were still out of control and even though Wendy had

:44:05.:44:07.

resigned as a trustee, she was still being paid.

:44:08.:44:09.

So that's why this charity has become the first to ever get

:44:10.:44:12.

What has the charity said about the investigation? We asked them for a

:44:13.:44:21.

statement and we have received a statement from the lawyers

:44:22.:44:23.

representing Wendy Watson and the charity. They said the payments made

:44:24.:44:30.

to her were in error and it said she also worked full-time for the

:44:31.:44:34.

charity as a volunteer since 2012 and they did not realise the

:44:35.:44:39.

payments were inappropriate, but when they realised, she resigned.

:44:40.:44:44.

They also said although she was played for three months at the end

:44:45.:44:48.

of last year, she has otherwise work full-time on a voluntary basis.

:44:49.:44:50.

Thanks for joining us. Let's talk now to Michelle Russell

:44:51.:44:54.

from the Charity Commission It's not unusual that charities get

:44:55.:45:09.

into financial distress. That's why we took the action that we did. We

:45:10.:45:13.

had a look at the accounts and saw the warning signs. That's why we

:45:14.:45:17.

tried to help early on by going to visit the charity and setting them

:45:18.:45:21.

an action plan. What did the charity do wrong, in your eyes? There are a

:45:22.:45:26.

number of things that went wrong, and it's not unusual for charities

:45:27.:45:30.

to make mistakes. I run by volunteers doing their best for the

:45:31.:45:37.

benefit of others. But actually there are a number of issues that we

:45:38.:45:40.

saw. Their business plan didn't work, they weren't making any money

:45:41.:45:42.

from their charity shops, they had got into a model with their

:45:43.:45:47.

finances, the loans from trustees were there, and they were paying

:45:48.:45:51.

money effectively to themselves, signing off their own expenditure.

:45:52.:45:56.

There were a number of issues where they got into a bit of a mess and

:45:57.:46:01.

needed help. Why can't you be paid as a trustee? If you think about

:46:02.:46:08.

charity and why we trust the public trust charities, it is based on the

:46:09.:46:13.

premise of volunteering and helping others. Also, in the role of a

:46:14.:46:17.

trustee, whose job it is to scrutinise what's going on by the

:46:18.:46:21.

employees, if you are paid as an employee that makes your job very

:46:22.:46:25.

difficult. That's why there are rules in place that say you

:46:26.:46:29.

shouldn't get paid as a trustee or be a paid employee and a trustee,

:46:30.:46:34.

without special permission. This charity didn't do it, and after we

:46:35.:46:39.

warned them that they needed to sort it out, they still didn't take the

:46:40.:46:43.

steps they needed to. That's why we took the action of giving them an

:46:44.:46:46.

official warning. What legal powers do you have, if you feel charities

:46:47.:46:51.

aren't carrying out their work in the way they should be? We've got a

:46:52.:46:56.

range of powers. Our role is to support charities by guidance and

:46:57.:47:01.

advice at one end. At the other end of things, we can launch an

:47:02.:47:06.

investigation and take quite serious powers. What we are talking about in

:47:07.:47:11.

this case is firm but fair action in the middle of that. So we aren't up

:47:12.:47:19.

at that quite invasive and web we passed giving guidance and advice.

:47:20.:47:23.

This is a warning that you need to sort out your house. And it's the

:47:24.:47:27.

first time you've ever given an official warning, tell us more about

:47:28.:47:32.

what that does mean. This is a new power that we went to Parliament to

:47:33.:47:37.

and asked for. We could see the gap between the lower end of support and

:47:38.:47:42.

the upper end of intervention. It is a power where we can warn the

:47:43.:47:47.

charity and the trustees that there has been some breaches and they need

:47:48.:47:51.

to act to take action to stop it going forward. It's for a limited

:47:52.:47:56.

period of time, and our support is still there for them while they've

:47:57.:48:01.

got this warning. It should be reassurance to the public that the

:48:02.:48:04.

regulator is there, watching what's going on, and it won't walk away.

:48:05.:48:08.

Said the charity is still running itself, what's time frame forward?

:48:09.:48:15.

We set its deadlines for us going back to make sure those things were

:48:16.:48:20.

wrong or they've made mistakes on were sorted out. We're really

:48:21.:48:23.

pleased some new trustees stepped forward and taking up the mantle, to

:48:24.:48:29.

use their heads to scrutinise what's going on. We don't want to lose the

:48:30.:48:34.

passion and enthusiasm that people have in volunteering for charities,

:48:35.:48:38.

particularly because sometimes it's for a cause close to their heart. We

:48:39.:48:42.

don't want to lose that, but we definitely need trustees who carry

:48:43.:48:46.

out a rewarding but responsible job. Thank you.

:48:47.:48:52.

Just to re-iterate what The National Hereditary Breast

:48:53.:48:54.

Cancer Helpline told us - they say Wendy Watson paying

:48:55.:48:57.

Her solicitors told the BBC she worked full time for the charity

:48:58.:49:01.

from August 2012 until now and that she was paid

:49:02.:49:03.

for her work for one year while she was also a trustee.

:49:04.:49:06.

They say neither Ms Watson or the charity were aware that this

:49:07.:49:09.

was inappropriate and Ms Watson immediately resigned as a trustee.

:49:10.:49:11.

And they say it's a well-used helpline.

:49:12.:49:18.

Next this morning - protests and vigils in support

:49:19.:49:20.

of Charlottesville have been held in many US cities.

:49:21.:49:32.

In Seattle on Sunday, police made arrests,

:49:33.:49:35.

deployed pepper spray and confiscated weapons

:49:36.:49:37.

as anti-fascist protesters approached a pro-Trump rally.

:49:38.:49:38.

Meanwhile President Trump has been facing criticism from both

:49:39.:49:41.

Republicans and Democrats for his response to the violence

:49:42.:49:43.

in Charlottesville which saw a woman killed and 19 others injured.

:49:44.:49:45.

The White House has said that the President did condemn

:49:46.:49:48.

violence by right-wing groups, when he criticised everyone involved

:49:49.:49:50.

Here's a look back at how events unfolded in Charlottesville

:49:51.:49:57.

which led to clashes resulting in three deaths.

:49:58.:50:13.

Go home. You are not wanted in this great Commonwealth. Shame on you.

:50:14.:52:13.

Overnight, the US Vice President Mike Pence has condemned

:52:14.:52:15.

what he describes as white supremacists "in the

:52:16.:52:17.

We have no tolerance for hate and violence

:52:18.:52:20.

from white supremacists, neo-Nazis and the KKK.

:52:21.:52:27.

These dangerous fringe groups have no place in American public life

:52:28.:52:32.

and the American public debate and we condemn them

:52:33.:52:34.

Marissa Blair, a friend of heather hair who was killed when a car was

:52:35.:52:47.

driven into a crowd has been speaking to our correspondent. She

:52:48.:52:53.

understood as a white woman the privilege that she may have had and

:52:54.:52:58.

she felt sorry for it. She was sorry that we had to go, minorities have

:52:59.:53:05.

to go through what they go through, and that's why she was out here. I

:53:06.:53:12.

was with her. We came with her, me and my fiance and another friend, we

:53:13.:53:17.

met at a parking barrage and we parked our cars. We were together

:53:18.:53:22.

all day long. When it happened, Heather was standing right in front

:53:23.:53:29.

of me. What did you see? We were marching and... There was a

:53:30.:53:33.

commotion at the front of the crowd. We thought, there was a commotion

:53:34.:53:39.

and someone was scuffling. You look up and use the bodies flying. It's a

:53:40.:53:44.

split-second decision and all you can think is to move, but it's

:53:45.:53:48.

coming so fast. All I could feel was someone pushing me. Then it was

:53:49.:53:54.

chaos. It was chaos, and the only thing I could think of was checking

:53:55.:53:59.

I didn't have any broken bones. I got up and started looking for

:54:00.:54:04.

markers. I new Courtney was OK. I found Marcus. Then we started

:54:05.:54:15.

looking for Heather. We never found Heather. 32 year Heather Heyer was

:54:16.:54:21.

in Charlottesville and Virginia when a car was driven into the crowd.

:54:22.:54:28.

Next Monday at noon, the famous bongs of Big Ben

:54:29.:54:31.

will sound for the final time until 2021, as the clock tower falls

:54:32.:54:34.

silent to undergo major renovation work which will safeguard it

:54:35.:54:36.

Members of the public have been invited to gather

:54:37.:54:40.

in Parliament Square at midday on Monday the 21st of August

:54:41.:54:42.

to mark the final sounding of the famous bell until 2021.

:54:43.:54:45.

We can go now to our correspondent Leila Nathoo who is on the roof

:54:46.:54:48.

This is a fantastic view from up on the Parliamentary roof terrace. I

:54:49.:54:59.

have to say it will be a very strange thing not to have those

:55:00.:55:02.

familiar and reassuring bonds every hour. It will feel very strange

:55:03.:55:11.

indeed. The bell of Big Ben is going to be silent about these renovations

:55:12.:55:14.

to take place. Its renovations on the clock as well as the tower

:55:15.:55:18.

itself. There will be strikes for New Year's Eve and Remembrance Day.

:55:19.:55:30.

Just tell us a bit about what is wrong with the clock and why it

:55:31.:55:35.

needs such work. Its 160 years old. It needs maintenance. It's a regular

:55:36.:55:39.

maintenance and we're going to be looking at a view things we have

:55:40.:55:43.

spotted that are starting to wear. Gears and the pendulum is one of our

:55:44.:55:48.

major concerns. Is the clock going to stop working? It will. We won't

:55:49.:55:53.

stop the clock until January this year, just the bells are stopping

:55:54.:55:58.

next Monday. We will still drive at least one of the dials so there will

:55:59.:56:01.

be a dialogue with the ball. So people will still be able to set

:56:02.:56:08.

their watches by Big Ben? Yes. This is part of wider work that is taking

:56:09.:56:13.

place on the tower itself. The bells are being silenced first to protect

:56:14.:56:19.

the workers. That's correct. As the scaffolding goes up, the bells will

:56:20.:56:24.

be silenced. Give us an idea of what needs to be done, why is it so

:56:25.:56:29.

important the renovation is carried out? It needs maintenance and we're

:56:30.:56:33.

going to start at the top with the reefs which leak. Then we'll work

:56:34.:56:38.

our way down. There's various problems with stonework, the bell

:56:39.:56:43.

frame, condensation inside. We'll also provide new amenities for the

:56:44.:56:47.

clock makers. We'll install AWC and kitchen up there. We are also going

:56:48.:56:55.

to put in a lift. There are several shafts that go up and a shaft at the

:56:56.:56:59.

back into which we can fit a lift which will help us to get emergency

:57:00.:57:02.

evacuation and people up there quicker. Thank you. These

:57:03.:57:07.

renovations will start soon after the bells stop. The scaffolding has

:57:08.:57:11.

already reached a certain height. The tower in the clock will be

:57:12.:57:16.

almost entirely obscured in the weeks to come. As you said, people

:57:17.:57:20.

are being asked to come to Parliament Square next Monday at

:57:21.:57:24.

noon to mark the final bell's tolling at midday. We've had some

:57:25.:57:32.

e-mails on IPPs, those prison sentences that mean people are still

:57:33.:57:35.

in jail sometime after the sentence was served. "We Sat watching your

:57:36.:57:42.

programme about James who is still in prison, he is obviously being

:57:43.:57:47.

abused in prison and is seriously unwell. It's a disgrace he hasn't

:57:48.:57:52.

been helped and is left to rot. It's like watching a prison horror movie,

:57:53.:57:56.

get in the help he needs. This is the first time we've ever e-mailed a

:57:57.:58:01.

TV programme, we feel so frustrated about this investigation".

:58:02.:58:03.

Let's get the latest weather update with Carol.

:58:04.:58:08.

Good morning. We've had a variety of weather across the British Isles.

:58:09.:58:17.

Our Weather Watchers have sent us in some beautiful pictures. This is

:58:18.:58:21.

from Northern Ireland, it was wet overnight there. This one is from

:58:22.:58:25.

South Lanarkshire. Quite a murky start of the day with some rain. As

:58:26.:58:30.

we push into Norfolk, brighter start to the day. Some bits of blue sky

:58:31.:58:34.

coming through there. We had some heavy rain around, courtesy of this

:58:35.:58:39.

array of weather fronts, moving from west to east and drifting across the

:58:40.:58:43.

north-east as well, introducing that rain. On the radar you'll be able to

:58:44.:58:50.

see how much rain we've had as we've gone through the morning. Heavy rain

:58:51.:58:53.

in Northern Ireland and western Scotland, and we've had posters of

:58:54.:58:56.

heavy rain across parts of England and Wales. The whole lot moving

:58:57.:59:00.

eastwards, continuing to fragment. The further east you are, the

:59:01.:59:04.

brighter the skies. Just ahead of the weather front you'll notice the

:59:05.:59:08.

cloud building. Right behind the weather front more cloud around and

:59:09.:59:13.

also some coastal drizzle and drizzle on the hills as well. A new

:59:14.:59:17.

line of rain coming up. We could hit 25 degrees in parts of East Anglia

:59:18.:59:24.

and Kent. Here is the rain coming up across the Channel Islands, pouring

:59:25.:59:28.

up through central southern England. Patchy rain across south-west

:59:29.:59:34.

England and Wales. The northern England again some bright spells

:59:35.:59:37.

with showers moving towards the east. For Northern Ireland a mixture

:59:38.:59:40.

of bright spells, sunshine and showers. Some of them heavy and

:59:41.:59:45.

boundary. For Scotland the band of rain moving north-east, fragmenting.

:59:46.:59:52.

We should see highs of 20 degrees here. Down east coast, there will be

:59:53.:59:57.

spots of rain here and there. For many of us it will be dry. Through

:59:58.:00:01.

the evening and overnight, another band of rain moving in from the

:00:02.:00:06.

south-west. Some of this could be heavy and possibly thundery as well.

:00:07.:00:10.

In its wake there will be a lot of cloud and showers. It's not going to

:00:11.:00:16.

be a cold night, tomorrow morning we could see some thunderstorms coming

:00:17.:00:19.

out of the rain in the south-east. That leaves the way, as does the

:00:20.:00:25.

rain across north-east England and eastern Scotland, leaving sunshine

:00:26.:00:27.

and showers. Some of the shovels will be heavy, especially in the

:00:28.:00:31.

north. We could see that combination further south as well. Many of us

:00:32.:00:37.

will miss them all together and see some sunshine. Temperatures tomorrow

:00:38.:00:43.

could hit 26 in East Anglia and the south-east.

:00:44.:00:45.

Hello it's Monday, it's 10am, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria.

:00:46.:00:47.

Drugged, kidnapped and told she would be auctioned

:00:48.:00:49.

We talk to the agent of model Chloe Ayling,

:00:50.:00:54.

who says she was abducted in Milan and held for six days.

:00:55.:01:00.

Urgent action is called for to free thousands of prisoners

:01:01.:01:03.

who are still inside serving indeterminate "Public

:01:04.:01:04.

Protection" sentences, years after they were abolished.

:01:05.:01:08.

The families of these prisoners have told this programme

:01:09.:01:10.

they fear for the safety of their relatives still inside.

:01:11.:01:15.

He's literally lost all hope - he's got nothing left -

:01:16.:01:23.

physically and emotionally he's drained.

:01:24.:01:24.

And 70 years ago 200 years of British colonial rule in India

:01:25.:01:34.

came to an end when the country was partitioned into

:01:35.:01:36.

Pakistan and India - hundreds of thousands of people

:01:37.:01:39.

were killed as violence erupted on both sides.

:01:40.:01:45.

Here's Rachel in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:01:46.:01:48.

The US Vice President, Mike Pence, has condemned far-right groups

:01:49.:01:52.

in response to the violence over the weekend in Virginia.

:01:53.:01:55.

A woman was killed and 19 people were injured

:01:56.:01:57.

when a car was driven into a crowd protesting against a far-right rally

:01:58.:02:00.

Demonstrations and vigils have been held in cities

:02:01.:02:04.

The chairman of the Parole Board Nick Hardwick says ministers "must

:02:05.:02:14.

act now" to address the backlog of prisoners serving

:02:15.:02:16.

The sentence - known as Imprisonment for Public Protection -

:02:17.:02:27.

was abolished in 2012 but more than 3,000 people in England

:02:28.:02:29.

and Wales are still being held with no release date.

:02:30.:02:32.

The Ministry of Justice says it's working to process these cases

:02:33.:02:34.

Arrests of passengers suspected of being drunk at UK airports

:02:35.:02:42.

and on flights have risen by 50% in the past year, according

:02:43.:02:46.

to an investigation carried out by Panorama.

:02:47.:02:49.

Critics of the airline industry say a voluntary code on alcohol

:02:50.:02:53.

sales isn't working, and want the government

:02:54.:02:55.

A spokesman for the Home Office said they will respond in due course.

:02:56.:03:01.

A man has been charged with the murder of a grandfather

:03:02.:03:04.

who was attacked as he walked his dogs in Norfolk.

:03:05.:03:07.

The body of 83-year-old Peter Wrighton was found

:03:08.:03:09.

in woodland near the village of East Harling last Saturday.

:03:10.:03:12.

Police say he had been repeatedly stabbed.

:03:13.:03:18.

Alexander Palmer, who's 23, is due in court later today.

:03:19.:03:53.

Security forces in Burkina Faso have killed two suspected jihadist gunmen

:03:54.:03:56.

after a terrorist attack in the capital.

:03:57.:03:58.

The country's communications minister says

:03:59.:03:59.

a number of hostages were trapped inside a restaurant after gunmen

:04:00.:04:02.

At least 18 people are believed to have been killed

:04:03.:04:06.

in the attack and another 8 were wounded.

:04:07.:04:10.

South Korea's President has urged both the US and North Korea to act

:04:11.:04:13.

reasonably and peacefully in the current nuclear stand off.

:04:14.:04:16.

Moon Jae-in said, "There must be no more war

:04:17.:04:18.

His comments come after a week of ratcheting up of tensions by the US

:04:19.:04:22.

China has tightened sanctions on North Korea -

:04:23.:04:31.

banning several key industrial imports from the country.

:04:32.:04:35.

And it is arguably one of the most distinctive sounds in the world.

:04:36.:04:39.

However, next Monday at midday Big Ben

:04:40.:04:47.

will chime for the final time until 2021 to allow repair work

:04:48.:04:50.

to take place on the clock in Elizabeth Tower.

:04:51.:04:54.

The bells will still ring out on Remembrance Sunday

:04:55.:04:57.

and at New Year but will otherwise fall silent for only

:04:58.:05:00.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:05:01.:05:13.

Britain won five medals in just over 24 hours to meet their medal target

:05:14.:05:28.

at the World Athletics Championships.

:05:29.:05:29.

Thanks mainly to four out of four in the relays.

:05:30.:05:37.

The women's 4 by 400 metres won a silver medal on the final night

:05:38.:05:40.

The seventh medal in seven championships in this event.

:05:41.:05:44.

With the men's quartet adding a bronze a few minutes later.

:05:45.:05:47.

Prior to the weekend the team had only picked up one medal.

:05:48.:05:50.

Coming back after the Olympic Games it is hard to follow that, but I

:05:51.:05:54.

think the team did so well, if you look across the board, the top eight

:05:55.:05:57.

finishes and so Moli people finishing in fourth and we hit the

:05:58.:06:01.

medal target last night -- so many people. There will be many people

:06:02.:06:07.

here featuring on the podium in Tokyo in 2020.

:06:08.:06:21.

Manchester United's new striker got their new Premier League season

:06:22.:06:23.

Romelu Lukaku scored twice on his home debut to give his team

:06:24.:06:27.

a 4-0 win over West Ham at Old Trafford.

:06:28.:06:34.

The 75 million signing scored one in each half.

:06:35.:06:36.

Paul Pogba then rounded off the victory to put

:06:37.:06:39.

United top after the first round of fixtures.

:06:40.:06:41.

Elsewhere Spurs also won their opening game.

:06:42.:06:43.

Meanwhile the world's most expensive player also made

:06:44.:06:55.

Neymar cost Paris Saint Germain ?200 million and scored

:06:56.:07:02.

in their 3-0l league win over Guingamp.

:07:03.:07:03.

He also set up one of the other goals.

:07:04.:07:13.

Cristiano Ronaldo helped Real Madrid to beat Barcelona in the first leg

:07:14.:07:16.

But that wasn't the half of it at Camp Nou.

:07:17.:07:19.

It cost him a yellow card for removing his shirt.

:07:20.:07:24.

Then later he was booked again for diving.

:07:25.:07:26.

And it might not be the end of the trouble either as Ronaldo

:07:27.:07:32.

pushed the referee in the back before leaving the pitch.

:07:33.:07:34.

Justin Thomas has become the eighth first time winner in the last nine

:07:35.:07:44.

golf majors after his victory at the US PGA Championship

:07:45.:07:46.

At one point in the final round five players had a share

:07:47.:07:50.

of the lead but Thomas sunk this one from 40 feet to establish a two shot

:07:51.:07:54.

The American hit six birdies in his 68 on Sunday.

:07:55.:07:58.

And he'll move up to sixth in the world rankings.

:07:59.:08:00.

This tournament has a special place in my heart, and I want to win every

:08:01.:08:04.

tournament, but this is really cool for me, to be my first one, to have

:08:05.:08:08.

my dad here, and my grandfather was watching at home, I was able to talk

:08:09.:08:12.

to him and that was pretty core macro. I know what you are thinking,

:08:13.:08:21.

that trophy is absolutely massive -- that was pretty cool. Thanks for

:08:22.:08:25.

joining us. Prime Minister Theresa May returns

:08:26.:08:28.

to work after her walking holiday this week, just as two leading

:08:29.:08:31.

cabinet ministers have declared the UK will need a transition

:08:32.:08:34.

period to help businesses Liam Fox, the international trade

:08:35.:08:36.

secretary, and Philip Hammond, the chancellor, made the declaration

:08:37.:08:39.

in a joint article for the Sunday Telegraph intended

:08:40.:08:41.

to quash speculation that the cabinet is divided over

:08:42.:08:43.

how to implement Brexit and what will happen

:08:44.:08:46.

during the transitional period. The Prime Minister's summer holiday

:08:47.:08:47.

has been plagued by Tory rows over Over the next ten days,

:08:48.:08:50.

ministers will also publish papers on Britain's Brexit plans covering

:08:51.:08:57.

the Irish border, the customs union, But does this joint article show

:08:58.:08:59.

a genuine platform for progress? Joining us now, Owen Jones,

:09:00.:09:05.

a columnist for The Guardian who believes there is no unity

:09:06.:09:10.

within the Conservative Party. And Jo-Anne Nadler,

:09:11.:09:13.

a political journalist and communications consultant,

:09:14.:09:17.

who worked as a senior Conservative press officer

:09:18.:09:19.

during the John Major years. She thinks this was the right

:09:20.:09:21.

moment for Liam Fox What we are hearing from them is

:09:22.:09:37.

that there will be no staying in the customs union but there will be a

:09:38.:09:41.

transition period, is this a position that the party can get

:09:42.:09:45.

behind? I think so, they have got to get hide it. To a certain extent

:09:46.:09:50.

this is a PR move -- they have got to get behind it. We have heard so

:09:51.:09:56.

many noises off and so much squabbling that it has obscured the

:09:57.:10:01.

essential direction of travel towards leaving the single market

:10:02.:10:04.

and the customs union, it has been very important that these ministers

:10:05.:10:07.

who represent different sides of the argument come together at this

:10:08.:10:11.

point, partly to reassure their own party and also the country and

:10:12.:10:16.

business essentially, that they will work together to this end. What do

:10:17.:10:22.

you think? Is this a position that Labour can get around? No sooner had

:10:23.:10:28.

the article being published in the Daily Telegraph, a Tory minister

:10:29.:10:31.

said the pact wouldn't last and that Philip Hammond had contempt for lame

:10:32.:10:37.

Fox, the Tory party is riven with division -- Liam Fox. David Davis

:10:38.:10:43.

called Boris Johnson a failure and there were Tory MPs threatening to

:10:44.:10:48.

kick each other in various pieces of anatomy. Philip Hammond repeatedly

:10:49.:11:02.

briefed against. Anna Super -- Soubry now talking about leaving the

:11:03.:11:08.

party. It is easy for my position, someone who supports the Labour

:11:09.:11:11.

Party and it is for me to have a partisan enjoyment in the Tories

:11:12.:11:16.

ripping themselves to shreds, but Chris Patten said the disastrous

:11:17.:11:21.

decisions have left the country in a terrible mess and already because we

:11:22.:11:28.

have the referendum to Sage the internal divisions of the Tory

:11:29.:11:32.

party, and we have the snap general election to destroy the Labour

:11:33.:11:37.

Party, but these internal divisions within the Conservative Party have

:11:38.:11:40.

left this country a laughing stock in Europe and that is my fear, that

:11:41.:11:45.

we don't have a united government, we have a Prime Minister without

:11:46.:11:51.

authority and Brexit negotiations have not even begun. What you think

:11:52.:11:57.

about Soubry saying she is thinking about joining another party? That is

:11:58.:12:04.

not that surprising, there are some people in the Conservative Party who

:12:05.:12:08.

are passionately in favour of Remain and they can argue their case as

:12:09.:12:17.

they wish, but they do not represent a minority within the Conservative

:12:18.:12:20.

Party and they don't represent the majority in the party. The majority

:12:21.:12:25.

voted to leave the European Union, and an essential part of that is to

:12:26.:12:29.

leave the single market and the customs union, so that Britain can

:12:30.:12:32.

be more competitive and forge a more successful economic future for

:12:33.:12:38.

itself but also a more successful economy than we are seeing in Europe

:12:39.:12:44.

and that is the point. It would be difficult for MPs to force a

:12:45.:12:46.

position where the government doesn't come out completely when

:12:47.:12:51.

there are enough numbers of MPs who want a position where we stay in the

:12:52.:12:56.

single market and the customs union? What has happened, because of the

:12:57.:13:01.

squabbling, and some of this is over important points of policy, and some

:13:02.:13:07.

of it is personal, as Owen indicated, but we have got

:13:08.:13:09.

distracted from what the government needs to do which is make the case

:13:10.:13:17.

again, and Remainers have been effective arguing their case since

:13:18.:13:23.

the result, almost putting down the result but rich a million more

:13:24.:13:30.

people voted for. -- at which. We haven't on the Leave side being

:13:31.:13:36.

clear about the advantage and we haven't been clear about the fact

:13:37.:13:42.

that this can be a great thing for Britain. Our correspondent is

:13:43.:13:51.

joining us from Westminster, is the joint positioning going to put a lid

:13:52.:13:55.

on everything? Is this a sign of a new unity? For now, yes, this is

:13:56.:14:03.

seen as a attempt to show unity because there has been so much

:14:04.:14:06.

speculation and squabbling while Theresa May has been on holiday, and

:14:07.:14:10.

this is an attempt to bring together the two sides of the Cabinet, Liam

:14:11.:14:16.

Fox, in favour Brexit, and Philip Hammond who is in favour of a soft

:14:17.:14:19.

approach for the both of them have said that the government does not

:14:20.:14:24.

want a cliff edge when we leave the EU in 2019 and they spoke about the

:14:25.:14:29.

agreement and the need for a transitional deal but they have said

:14:30.:14:33.

it must be time limited. As to whether it will end the speculation,

:14:34.:14:36.

I think they will be some bubbling around for while but this is a

:14:37.:14:41.

moment of unity ahead of Theresa May returning from holiday this week.

:14:42.:14:44.

She has been enjoying three weeks in Italy. She is coming back sometime

:14:45.:14:52.

this week. Thank you. David Miliband has been speaking this weekend. He

:14:53.:14:57.

has said there must be a vote on a Brexit deal to allow the country to

:14:58.:15:06.

potentially reject Brexit and stay in the EU, but the Labour position

:15:07.:15:10.

is all over the place as well. The position of Labour is that they have

:15:11.:15:14.

got to find a way of clearing up the mess caused by the Conservative

:15:15.:15:18.

Party, there was a decision by David Cameron to have a referendum and

:15:19.:15:23.

they waged a disastrous campaign and they lost and now the country is in

:15:24.:15:27.

a mess. We are where we are, though. Yes, I campaigned for Remain but we

:15:28.:15:33.

lost the referendum and now it is about what kind of Brexit we have,

:15:34.:15:38.

and my fear is if you start saying at this stage that Brexit needs to

:15:39.:15:45.

be overturned, then people who voted Leave will regard this as

:15:46.:15:48.

contemptuous of their democratic position and many people who voted

:15:49.:15:53.

Remain accept the decision and want to find the best possible way, but

:15:54.:15:58.

my fear regarding David Miliband, I think it is up for grabs as to

:15:59.:16:02.

whether we stay in the single market, I would prefer that, even

:16:03.:16:05.

though there are problems because the danger is we end up with the

:16:06.:16:08.

worst of both worlds where we have do accept EU laws but we can't

:16:09.:16:13.

contribute to them, but if we crashed out of the customs union the

:16:14.:16:17.

economic damage could be considerable and hurt a lot of

:16:18.:16:24.

people. A lot of people said this on Twitter all the time, it was only

:16:25.:16:28.

advisory, the referendum, but that would cause uproar, however, to call

:16:29.:16:33.

for a second referendum at this point, before there has been a big

:16:34.:16:36.

backlash, I think many people will find that contemptuous of their

:16:37.:16:41.

democratic decision and it means those of us who want to soft Brexit

:16:42.:16:45.

will walk off the pitch and leave the hard Brexit motion to decide

:16:46.:16:55.

what kind of Brexit we have -- the hard Brexit throw.

:16:56.:16:59.

David Davis has said that the MPs are there to exercise judgment --

:17:00.:17:02.

David Miliband. He has said let's have another

:17:03.:17:17.

election now, because we didn't do too well to three months ago, it's

:17:18.:17:23.

like that. The decision was taken. The real question now is what other

:17:24.:17:28.

policies that are going to underpin the way we carry out Brexit. On that

:17:29.:17:37.

point, I think we can agree. There's been an awful lot of destruction

:17:38.:17:42.

because of, sometimes personality clashes but sometimes genuine issues

:17:43.:17:45.

over policy differences in the Conservative Party. What happened

:17:46.:17:48.

this week is these two ministers have come together to say we need to

:17:49.:17:54.

pull together and give Theresa May her head. She's coming back this

:17:55.:17:59.

week, she's going to make a big policy statement, we are going to

:18:00.:18:04.

look at various of Brexit, like how we will manage outside the customs

:18:05.:18:09.

union, what's going to happen with the border inside Ireland for

:18:10.:18:13.

instance. Those kind of policies, they need to be scrutinised. The

:18:14.:18:21.

danger with the Tory Brexit is not only are we going to crash out of

:18:22.:18:25.

the single market, but we may end up with no deal whatsoever. That's not

:18:26.:18:31.

a Tory Brexit. Your party are going to have to own this, I can assure

:18:32.:18:38.

you. We'll end up with tariffs imposed on our goods which will

:18:39.:18:41.

cause potentially enormous damage to the British economy. Wages are

:18:42.:18:44.

already falling in this country all over again. The danger is that with

:18:45.:18:49.

that sort of Brexit, it will hit the living standards of those who voted

:18:50.:18:53.

to leave incidentally and jobs. We've got this compromise position

:18:54.:18:57.

outlined this weekend, in spite of all the divisions you are talking

:18:58.:19:02.

about, is it something MPs could unite around? Frankly there is a lot

:19:03.:19:06.

of detail that could be delineated and hasn't yet been so. As a

:19:07.:19:11.

statement of we need to pull together, it is significant in that

:19:12.:19:14.

regard. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to scrutinise the

:19:15.:19:18.

detail within that. How long will this transition period B and what's

:19:19.:19:23.

at the end of the transition period? We haven't yet heard what the vision

:19:24.:19:27.

is for the end of the transition period. The Tory infighting has

:19:28.:19:34.

become before the difficulties of the negotiations have got underway.

:19:35.:19:39.

That is why the Telegraph have been briefed that this pact isn't going

:19:40.:19:44.

to last. I do think the Telegraph just invented it, give them some

:19:45.:19:49.

respect. The truth is, Philip Hammond, David Davis, Liam Fox,

:19:50.:19:53.

Theresa May, they are all fundamentally in quite different

:19:54.:19:56.

places. Philip Hammond earlier in the summer was arguing for a soft

:19:57.:20:04.

Brexit and to have... I don't think fundamentally that has happened and

:20:05.:20:09.

when Brexit negotiations happen and we start suffering genuine economic

:20:10.:20:13.

problems and turmoil and turbulence, and our position in Europe which is

:20:14.:20:18.

weak... Like vast swathes of the continent. The reason a lot of

:20:19.:20:24.

people voted to leave... EU diplomats regard our country as a

:20:25.:20:28.

bit of a laughing stock at the moment. Great to have you in, thank

:20:29.:20:29.

you. Across the UK, arrests of airline

:20:30.:20:40.

passengers suspected of being drunk have risen by 50% in the last year.

:20:41.:20:44.

Those in the industry are calling on the government to do more.

:20:45.:20:47.

The Metropolitan Police are giving head mounted cameras

:20:48.:20:48.

The cameras are being issued to all Armed Response Units to wear

:20:49.:20:53.

on their baseball caps and ballistic helmets.

:20:54.:20:54.

The Met's already rolled out over 17,000 bodycams

:20:55.:20:56.

to officers across the force, but there have been issues finding

:20:57.:20:59.

an operationally suitable camera for firearms officers.

:21:00.:21:00.

It's hoped the presence of cameras will help address concerns over

:21:01.:21:03.

the transparency of operations involving armed officers,

:21:04.:21:05.

such as the shootings of Mark Duggan and Jermaine Baker.

:21:06.:21:12.

Martin Harding is a former superintendent and firearms officer

:21:13.:21:23.

with Greater Manchester Police. Nick Howe, a former firearms

:21:24.:21:36.

commander and now a criminologist This reinforces the commitment of

:21:37.:21:46.

the police service. As a largely an armed police service, we do police

:21:47.:21:50.

with the consensus of the community and we must do everything we can to

:21:51.:21:55.

retain that consent. What is your perspective? I think Martin's view

:21:56.:22:00.

is spot on. It's all about transparency and I think police

:22:01.:22:04.

officers have got far more to gain and benefit from the transparency of

:22:05.:22:08.

evidence recorded by video cameras. Why do you think it's taken so long?

:22:09.:22:13.

We talked about technical issues but there are other operational

:22:14.:22:20.

considerations to take into account. First of all, why has it taken so

:22:21.:22:25.

long. It's only in the last 8-9 years in small pilots that body

:22:26.:22:29.

cameras have been used as a credible form of evidence gathering. It was

:22:30.:22:35.

only as far ago as 2014 that the Met started to roll it out more fully

:22:36.:22:40.

based upon the trials elsewhere in the country. It is still relatively

:22:41.:22:45.

recent technology. In terms firearms officers, the difficulty was the

:22:46.:22:52.

technology was generally worn on the upper chest and shoulder area. When

:22:53.:22:55.

firearms officers bring their firearms up to the ready, that was

:22:56.:22:59.

masking some of the imagery and the quality of what they could record at

:23:00.:23:04.

the time. As technology has moved on, it's more by stealth than

:23:05.:23:12.

revolution. These developments are incremental. They have experimented

:23:13.:23:17.

with head worn cameras which gives a far better panoramic view of what

:23:18.:23:23.

they are dealing with at the time. Martin, there is research from

:23:24.:23:28.

Cambridge University that shows officers who are wearing body

:23:29.:23:33.

cameras get 93% fewer complaints from the public. Would you expect it

:23:34.:23:40.

to be a similar result when the head cameras come in? When you're talking

:23:41.:23:44.

about firearms officers it something entirely different. The operational

:23:45.:23:50.

officers have got 93% ratings from the public. In the last year there

:23:51.:23:54.

were 16,000 deployments of armed officers to incidents, in those

:23:55.:24:02.

deployments firearms were only discharged ten times. I think

:24:03.:24:06.

firearms officers by and large have the confidence and support of the

:24:07.:24:10.

public. They are very well trained in what they do. How will they feel

:24:11.:24:16.

about having them? I think there has got to be a confidence issue with

:24:17.:24:22.

firearms officers themselves. Of all they are volunteers to carry out

:24:23.:24:25.

that role. Now they are placing themselves in a position where they

:24:26.:24:30.

are making decisions in split seconds. Those decisions can now be

:24:31.:24:34.

replayed over and over and over again in a court of law. So they

:24:35.:24:38.

need the confidence that the equipment will truly portray what

:24:39.:24:43.

took place and support their decision-making. It is possible that

:24:44.:24:49.

sometimes people might make wrong decisions but if you look at the

:24:50.:24:52.

numbers of times officers have discharged weapons, I've got

:24:53.:24:57.

confidence they do the right things. Where would the risk be in the

:24:58.:25:02.

footage not giving a clear image of what happened? The risk is that they

:25:03.:25:06.

have a split second to make a decision. At the time they make that

:25:07.:25:10.

decision, there is noise, there's confusion, there's testosterone,

:25:11.:25:15.

there is fear. They see an incident that only they might see from their

:25:16.:25:21.

position. Bear in mind there are numerous officers attending a scene.

:25:22.:25:24.

Numerous angles to view a situation. They might see something their

:25:25.:25:29.

colleagues haven't seen. When they take that decision to shoot, and

:25:30.:25:33.

it's a decision which remains purely there is, they need to be sure that

:25:34.:25:39.

when it goes to court, or they need the confidence that when it goes to

:25:40.:25:44.

court, if that decision isn't supported by the evidence, the

:25:45.:25:47.

implications are absolutely horrendous in terms of loss of

:25:48.:25:51.

liberty, loss of career, loss of life. The implications pulling the

:25:52.:25:59.

trigger massive. All the actions and decision-making will be captured on

:26:00.:26:05.

camera. Nick, how much pressure is put on firearms officers who, as you

:26:06.:26:12.

say, volunteered to be armed, how much pressure is on them when they

:26:13.:26:18.

think about the scrutiny and having to replay an event that has to

:26:19.:26:21.

happen in a split second? I think they do but they've also got to have

:26:22.:26:25.

faith and confidence in the training that they get over a period of time.

:26:26.:26:30.

It's a graduated process before they actually get to the front line in

:26:31.:26:34.

these situations. I've got a great deal of confidence in the training

:26:35.:26:38.

and support they get within the firearms community and the broader

:26:39.:26:42.

police community. Going back to one of your earlier question is,

:26:43.:26:48.

speaking to officers in recent times regarding this development, I think

:26:49.:26:52.

the concern isn't so much upon the added pressure or the transparency

:26:53.:26:58.

of evidence as it may come out on the day, but there is an underlying

:26:59.:27:01.

fear that potentially the capturing by video of police tactics somehow

:27:02.:27:07.

will enhance the challenges presented to them by the criminal

:27:08.:27:11.

community. I actually don't agree with that particular view, but there

:27:12.:27:15.

is a concern among some officers that may be the visibility of their

:27:16.:27:21.

tactics may somehow give away their operational advantage. Martin, what

:27:22.:27:27.

about the perspective of the public? Will this be a reassuring step? I

:27:28.:27:34.

think so. Every time there is a weapon discharged there are

:27:35.:27:38.

questions from all parties. From the police service, the IPCC, and the

:27:39.:27:43.

families are people who have been shot. This will go a long way to

:27:44.:27:46.

being able to answer those questions. I think in lots of cases,

:27:47.:27:50.

it will totally vindicate the decision of the officer who made the

:27:51.:27:55.

decision, and show their decision was right. Going back to the point

:27:56.:28:01.

earlier that Nick made about tactics given out in court, I think we've

:28:02.:28:06.

got a long history of being able to give sensitive evidence in court

:28:07.:28:12.

proceedings. Where tactics might be given out, I'm sure that the court

:28:13.:28:16.

will allow certain evidence to be heard in secret, so that we get best

:28:17.:28:21.

evidence, and we get to the truth of what actually took place. Thank you.

:28:22.:28:29.

Still to come. 70 years ago India was partitioned and ended British

:28:30.:28:34.

colonial rule. We are talking to families whose lives were affected

:28:35.:28:38.

and their stories of what it meant and still means for them today.

:28:39.:28:43.

We will talk to space journalist and author Sarah Cruddas. About the

:28:44.:28:53.

Cassini space probe. With the news, here's Rachel

:28:54.:28:57.

in the BBC Newsroom. The US Vice President, Mike Pence,

:28:58.:29:00.

has condemned far-right groups in response to the violence over

:29:01.:29:02.

the weekend in Virginia. A woman was killed and 19

:29:03.:29:05.

people were injured when a car was driven into a crowd

:29:06.:29:07.

protesting against a far-right rally Demonstrations and vigils

:29:08.:29:10.

have been held in cities The chairman of the Parole Board,

:29:11.:29:13.

Nick Hardwick says ministers "must act now" to address the backlog

:29:14.:29:22.

of prisoners serving The sentence - known as Imprisonment

:29:23.:29:24.

for Public Protection - was abolished in 2012 but more

:29:25.:29:33.

than 3,000 people in England and Wales are still being held

:29:34.:29:36.

with no release date. The Ministry of Justice says it's

:29:37.:29:38.

working to process these cases Arrests of passengers suspected

:29:39.:29:41.

of being drunk at UK airports and on flights have risen by 50%

:29:42.:29:48.

in the past year, according to an investigation

:29:49.:29:51.

carried out by Panorama. Critics of the airline industry say

:29:52.:29:58.

a voluntary code on alcohol sales isn't working,

:29:59.:30:00.

and want the government A spokesman for the Home Office said

:30:01.:30:02.

they will respond in due course. A man has been charged

:30:03.:30:13.

with the murder of a grandfather who was attacked as he walked his

:30:14.:30:19.

dogs in Norfolk. The body of 83-year-old

:30:20.:30:26.

Peter Wrighton was found in woodland near the village

:30:27.:30:27.

of East Harling last Saturday. Police say he had been

:30:28.:30:30.

repeatedly stabbed. Alexander Palmer, who's 23,

:30:31.:30:31.

is due in court later today. Security forces in Burkina Faso have

:30:32.:30:43.

killed two suspected jihadist gunmen after a terrorist attack

:30:44.:30:46.

in the capital. At least eighteen people

:30:47.:30:51.

are believed to have been killed in the attack and another

:30:52.:30:53.

8 were wounded. The dead and injured were from

:30:54.:30:58.

several countries. South Korea's President has urged

:30:59.:31:02.

both the US and North Korea to act reasonably and peacefully

:31:03.:31:05.

in the current nuclear stand off. Moon Jae-in said, "There

:31:06.:31:07.

must be no more war His comments come after a week of

:31:08.:31:09.

ratcheting up of tensions by the US China has tightened

:31:10.:31:16.

sanctions on North Korea - banning several key industrial

:31:17.:31:23.

imports from the country. And - It is arguably one of the most

:31:24.:31:26.

distinctive sounds in the world. However, next Monday

:31:27.:31:30.

at midday Big Ben will chime for the final time

:31:31.:31:37.

until 2021 to allow repair work to take place on the clock

:31:38.:31:39.

in Elizabeth Tower. The bells will still ring out

:31:40.:31:42.

on Remembrance Sunday and at New Year but will otherwise

:31:43.:31:44.

fall silent for only That's a summary of

:31:45.:31:46.

the latest BBC News. That's a summary of the latest news,

:31:47.:32:04.

join me for BBC Newsroom Britain won five medals in just over

:32:05.:32:07.

24 hours to meet their medal target at the World Athletics

:32:08.:32:16.

Championships. Thanks to four out

:32:17.:32:17.

of four in the relays. The women's 4 by 400

:32:18.:32:21.

metres won a silver medal. And the men won a bronze afterwards.

:32:22.:32:31.

Manchester United are top of the Premier League at a time when it

:32:32.:32:35.

doesn't really matter, but someone has to be. Romelu Lukaku scoring

:32:36.:32:41.

twice in the 4-0 victory over West Ham. Tottenham were also victorious

:32:42.:32:53.

2-0 over Newcastle. Cristiano Ronaldo scored but was sent off and

:32:54.:32:58.

could be in trouble after seemingly pushing the referee in the Spanish

:32:59.:33:02.

super cup first leg against Barcelona. And Justin Thomas claimed

:33:03.:33:07.

the US PGA trophy in America. Arrests of passengers suspected

:33:08.:33:13.

of being drunk at UK airports and on flights have risen

:33:14.:33:19.

by 50% in the past year, according to an investigation

:33:20.:33:22.

carried out by BBC Panorama. Critics of the airline industry say

:33:23.:33:24.

a voluntary code on alcohol sales isn't working,

:33:25.:33:27.

and want the government Where in the UK can you buy alcohol

:33:28.:33:28.

at 4am seven days a week? The answer is at an

:33:29.:33:37.

international airport. And it seems that it's leaving

:33:38.:33:41.

passengers and crew with a hangover. An investigation by BBC Panorama has

:33:42.:33:47.

revealed that arrests of those suspected of being drunk at UK

:33:48.:33:51.

airports and on flights have risen Half of the 4,000 cabin crew

:33:52.:33:55.

who took part in a survey carried out by Panorama and Unite,

:33:56.:34:03.

the union, said they had either experienced or witnessed verbal,

:34:04.:34:13.

physical, or sexual abuse People just see us as

:34:14.:34:15.

barmaids in the sky. They would touch your breasts, or

:34:16.:34:21.

they'd touch your bum or your legs. I mean, I've had hands

:34:22.:34:24.

going up my skirt before. Phil Ward, the managing director

:34:25.:34:27.

of low-cost airline, Jet2, has already banned alcohol sales

:34:28.:34:30.

on flights before 8am, and wants the industry

:34:31.:34:34.

to take tougher measures. Do you think airports

:34:35.:34:36.

are doing enough? I think the retailers

:34:37.:34:38.

could do more as well. Two litre steins of beer in bars,

:34:39.:34:45.

mixers and miniatures in duty-free shops, which can only be

:34:46.:34:49.

there for one reason. But the Airport Operators

:34:50.:34:51.

Association insists that their code I don't accept that the airports

:34:52.:34:54.

don't sell alcohol responsibly. The sale of alcohol

:34:55.:35:01.

per se is not a problem. It's the misuse of it and drinking

:35:02.:35:07.

to excess and then behaving badly. Earlier this year, a House of Lords

:35:08.:35:11.

committee called for airport licensing to be brought into line

:35:12.:35:14.

with pubs and bars. A government decision

:35:15.:35:18.

on whether to call time on early-morning drinking

:35:19.:35:21.

at airports is now And Panorama investigates

:35:22.:35:22.

the growing numbers of British passengers flying drunk tonight

:35:23.:35:35.

at 830pm on BBC One. 70 years ago tonight,

:35:36.:35:40.

200 years of British colonial rule in India came to an end

:35:41.:35:44.

and the country was partitioned into two independent nation states:

:35:45.:35:47.

Hindu-majority India It led to one of the largest mass

:35:48.:35:52.

migrations ever recorded with an estimated 12 million people

:35:53.:36:01.

on the move: Muslims journeyed While Hindus and Sikhs headed

:36:02.:36:04.

in the opposite direction. Communities that had co-existed

:36:05.:36:17.

for centuries succumbed Hundreds of thousands

:36:18.:36:19.

were killed, tens of thousands of women abducted -

:36:20.:36:22.

on all sides. India and Pakistan became

:36:23.:36:23.

independent at the same moment - at midnight as August 14th 1947 gave

:36:24.:36:26.

way to August 15th. Pakistan now celebrates

:36:27.:36:29.

its independence day on August 14th Former cricketer and Pakistani

:36:30.:36:31.

politician Imran Khan spoke to the BBC's Inzy Rashid -

:36:32.:36:36.

he says the situation between India and Pakistan

:36:37.:36:39.

is the "worst it's ever been". Partition was five years

:36:40.:36:46.

old when I was born so I vividly remember the trauma

:36:47.:36:49.

of the partition. Trauma suffered by the people

:36:50.:36:55.

all around us and we grew up with this hatred,

:36:56.:37:00.

there was this hatred against India. When you were playing cricket

:37:01.:37:21.

against India, what were the crowds like? The crowds were so passionate

:37:22.:37:26.

about you beating India and they forced the players to really play...

:37:27.:37:34.

It almost transcended it, as if it was no longer a cricket game, it was

:37:35.:37:37.

more than a cricket game when you played India and that was forced by

:37:38.:37:43.

the crowds. Did it ever get to a point where it turned violent? In

:37:44.:37:53.

1987 the crowds were hostile. I remember playing a Test match and it

:37:54.:37:55.

wasn't very pleasant because normally you expect rivalry and

:37:56.:38:02.

passion in the crowd but you don't expect them to be throwing stones at

:38:03.:38:08.

fielders standing on the boundary. I remember hostility and that was a

:38:09.:38:15.

surprise. Looking at the situation right now.

:38:16.:38:22.

Can you tell the people back in the UK what the situation is?

:38:23.:38:28.

The current situation is probably the worst it has been

:38:29.:38:30.

The main reason is because India has a Prime Minister who has not risen

:38:31.:38:37.

above what his communal thinking, his association with Hindu

:38:38.:38:43.

extremists, his background where this was this massacre

:38:44.:38:45.

in Gujarat of Muslims when he was the chief minister.

:38:46.:38:50.

Somehow we expected that when Narendra Modi would become

:38:51.:38:54.

the Prime Minister he would rise above this.

:38:55.:39:00.

But I have to say we are all so disappointed because Narendra Modi

:39:01.:39:04.

has not just disappointed Pakistanis, he has

:39:05.:39:05.

If we take the situation that is now then and we translate that

:39:06.:39:10.

There's British Indians and British Pakistanis

:39:11.:39:14.

who are probably hearing stories from both sides, how do you think

:39:15.:39:17.

The British Indian Pakistani society has power because they have

:39:18.:39:24.

resources, they are rich, they are influential.

:39:25.:39:32.

They are the ones that should force, especially

:39:33.:39:34.

someone like Narendra Modi, to move towards peace.

:39:35.:39:36.

But do you feel there's maybe a lack of education,

:39:37.:39:39.

a lack of understanding of exactly what the situation

:39:40.:39:41.

is like, even back to 1947, of how that developed?

:39:42.:39:47.

In the curriculum, there should be an attempt by the British

:39:48.:39:49.

authorities to make people understand what exactly

:39:50.:39:52.

And if they understand that, they will understand the genesis of this

:39:53.:40:05.

animosity between the countries. 70 years, it is a celebration, and how

:40:06.:40:09.

much of a special occasion is this? Very special occasion, and you will

:40:10.:40:13.

see that when you go out on the streets. People come out and

:40:14.:40:19.

celebrate. There is this desire in the people that they want to

:40:20.:40:26.

celebrate a Pakistan that it should have been and it hasn't been. Imran

:40:27.:40:29.

Khan, talking about partition. Many British Asians

:40:30.:40:37.

have a connection to the partition in some way -

:40:38.:40:39.

but how has it affected different generations who have lived

:40:40.:40:41.

through it firsthand, He was educated in Pakistan and says

:40:42.:40:43.

the way they were taught about partition was very different

:40:44.:40:49.

to the experiences of his grandparents who were

:40:50.:40:51.

affected directly by it. Daya Rani Chuhb, who is 88

:40:52.:40:53.

years-old, joins us from New Delhi She and her husband were forced

:40:54.:40:55.

to move from their home Also here is Sabeena Akhtar

:40:56.:41:00.

and her daughter Summayah Muhammad. Summayah recently went to India

:41:01.:41:06.

to find her great-grandmother's old home that she was forced out

:41:07.:41:08.

of during the partition. Welcome. You were 18 when the

:41:09.:41:20.

partition happened, you were engaged, what happened to you and

:41:21.:41:28.

your fiance? Good morning. When we got engaged... My husband was doing

:41:29.:41:42.

work in what is now Bangladesh, my parents were there, and there was so

:41:43.:41:46.

much tension. The whole night we couldn't sleep.

:41:47.:42:08.

We had men guarding our house to protect us and we were so worried,

:42:09.:42:20.

any time they could make riot. Normally we celebrate. But we are

:42:21.:42:35.

afraid. We were so scared. We thought people would come and take

:42:36.:42:39.

us away from our home and take our things away. We were scared, very

:42:40.:42:44.

much scared. What was it like living through that? Everything that you

:42:45.:42:55.

knew, it was turned upside down. Your life was turned upside down,

:42:56.:42:59.

what was it like? Very upsetting, we did not know where to do and where

:43:00.:43:08.

to go. One of my elder sisters was there in Bangladesh. Their brothers

:43:09.:43:17.

came over, left everything behind. You can go back. INAUDIBLE

:43:18.:43:34.

Only 100-200 people could go. Some were coming and we were so scared.

:43:35.:43:44.

So we decided to leave our house, family, everything behind, with my

:43:45.:43:54.

parents and my father stayed back. My father decided to stay in

:43:55.:44:02.

Pakistan and he gave me the name of and that I would be a Pakistan

:44:03.:44:07.

citizen. I would have a good job there. Look after my family. He

:44:08.:44:15.

stayed back. INAUDIBLE How much has this... It has totally

:44:16.:44:38.

schedule family, how much is it talked about? -- shaped your family.

:44:39.:44:47.

What I have been through and what our family has been through, it is

:44:48.:44:54.

like a dream. We still go to the old house and dream of the old house.

:44:55.:45:06.

Good house. Good job. Good family. But everything was left behind

:45:07.:45:07.

because we had no chance. I would say that it is a very

:45:08.:45:21.

intense story for all of us. I do believe that the partition shaped my

:45:22.:45:27.

parents' lives and their destiny, of course. It also shaped them as human

:45:28.:45:32.

beings. And the kind of learning that they had during that time, the

:45:33.:45:39.

kind of traits and characteristics that they were able to imbibe into

:45:40.:45:44.

their lives in that point in time had a great influence on everything

:45:45.:45:52.

later on. For instance I was born much, much later after partition,

:45:53.:45:56.

but the learnings and the teachings that my parents gained from that

:45:57.:46:00.

time, the way they were able to deal with the situation influenced them,

:46:01.:46:05.

and it has influenced all of us, me and my siblings as well. You set

:46:06.:46:15.

your daughter a challenge to go to India and learn about your

:46:16.:46:17.

grandmother, why did you want to do that and what did you find out? I

:46:18.:46:22.

thought it was really important to learn about this history. We aren't

:46:23.:46:26.

taught about it at school. If I wasn't going to teach it to my

:46:27.:46:32.

daughter, who would? Also, it's important for her personal history

:46:33.:46:36.

to know where we came from and that we have this story of this amazing

:46:37.:46:42.

woman and this journey she made. How much have been passed down through

:46:43.:46:47.

direct conversations? We had snippets of information and we have

:46:48.:46:50.

this treasure trove of her belongings which are letters and

:46:51.:46:57.

pictures, from when she got to Pakistan, including the refugee

:46:58.:47:01.

papers she filled in. We knew bits but nothing like what we discovered.

:47:02.:47:06.

We had never seen the house she left behind. She left the top production

:47:07.:47:17.

and came to Lahore in Pakistan. What did you find out in particular, what

:47:18.:47:22.

affected you when you learned about her? I learned that throughout

:47:23.:47:29.

history, loads of women's stories are forgotten. I'm really proud to

:47:30.:47:36.

have uncovered my great-grandmother's story. I think

:47:37.:47:43.

that if more people tried to learn about partition, and learn about the

:47:44.:47:51.

refugees that were made in their own country, then maybe they would be

:47:52.:47:54.

more sympathetic to the refugees coming into Europe today. Were you

:47:55.:48:00.

surprised to hear all the detail about it? How much had you been

:48:01.:48:05.

aware of before? I hadn't really been aware of that much, because I

:48:06.:48:11.

just thought that we had come from Pakistan and lived in Pakistan, but

:48:12.:48:15.

that wasn't the case. It was really surprising to find out my

:48:16.:48:20.

great-grandmother's story. Tell us more about her story, what did

:48:21.:48:28.

happen to her? She was alone in her house when she heard mobs outside.

:48:29.:48:34.

She decided to flee in the middle of the night. She was alone with about

:48:35.:48:40.

15 of her children. She had 19 children altogether but some were

:48:41.:48:44.

born after partition. She got up and she fled. She buried her wedding

:48:45.:48:49.

jewellery hoping that one day she would return to her house and her

:48:50.:48:54.

belongings. But she never did. She got on a train journey which we also

:48:55.:49:02.

took from Rampur. We went to Uttar Pradesh, where she was living in

:49:03.:49:05.

refugee camps for over a year. It had been a pretty well-to-do family,

:49:06.:49:11.

hadn't it? It was a huge contrast. My great-grandfather was quite

:49:12.:49:17.

active in the independence movement. I think you've got some stamps in

:49:18.:49:22.

your box. These are mementos you've picked up on your journey. This

:49:23.:49:28.

would have been my great-grandfather. He was part of

:49:29.:49:32.

the independence movement but sadly died... I mean, he wouldn't have

:49:33.:49:40.

been pro-partition I don't think. But he died before. She made that

:49:41.:49:44.

journey alone and they left all of that prestige and the life they were

:49:45.:49:49.

used to. As I said, they settled in camps in Lahore. Your grandparents

:49:50.:49:55.

had to move to Pakistan from India, how much were you told growing up

:49:56.:50:04.

about what happened? How much was passed on directly? I've never met

:50:05.:50:08.

my grandad but I've heard stories from a grandmother. Today, millions

:50:09.:50:15.

of people are celebrating it as an independent state, but for me, the

:50:16.:50:19.

stories which I heard from a grandmother, those horrific stories,

:50:20.:50:23.

they'll still in my head. What sort of stories? She had to migrate from

:50:24.:50:40.

India. She was very settled the. My grandfather was serving as an Army

:50:41.:50:46.

officer. Even though he was asked to help the people who migrated from

:50:47.:50:53.

India, he still couldn't help his own family. My grandmother, she had

:50:54.:50:59.

to carry two of her sons, both under the age of five, all the way from

:51:00.:51:04.

India to Pakistan. All the time she had that fear someone would attack

:51:05.:51:08.

her. All she could take with her was her jewellery. She had wrapped that

:51:09.:51:14.

around her body. It was a risky job to carry all your jewellery. Mobs

:51:15.:51:22.

were all attacking each other. It was a risky business. The stories

:51:23.:51:27.

that are told subsequently through formal education, you feel quite

:51:28.:51:31.

strongly that it's not necessarily reflective of what you have been

:51:32.:51:36.

told that first-hand. A lot of people from my generation,

:51:37.:51:40.

especially those of the British Asian origin, they aren't very clear

:51:41.:51:45.

about why partition happened. Basically Pakistan was made around

:51:46.:51:50.

the notion that religion, which in Pakistan was Islam, was the basis of

:51:51.:52:04.

nationalism. Which is not the case, the Arabs are divided into 20

:52:05.:52:10.

countries. That was wrong because before partition, from 1857 when the

:52:11.:52:14.

war of Independence was fought up until the late 40s, the Muslims,

:52:15.:52:19.

Hindus and Sikhs were united against the fight against the British Raj.

:52:20.:52:24.

Within a matter of a few months, they started fighting each other.

:52:25.:52:30.

What triggered that was the Muslim leaders, they were making Pakistan a

:52:31.:52:37.

fortress for Islam rather than for Muslims. Even today in Pakistan,

:52:38.:52:43.

which was made for Muslims which were a minority in India, the

:52:44.:52:46.

religious minorities in Pakistan are not safe today. What's the best way

:52:47.:52:54.

to teach this stuff? You will obviously got your personal stories.

:52:55.:52:58.

You've had your personal journey. I think talking about it firstly is

:52:59.:53:03.

really important. Our children need to know about their history. Hassan

:53:04.:53:08.

was saying about his education which was pretty one-sided. I'm quite

:53:09.:53:14.

sceptical of a curriculum that ignores large swathes of history,

:53:15.:53:19.

and I find it incumbent on my daughter to know what clay pots the

:53:20.:53:25.

Romans were eating out of 2000 years ago but not who was taking food off

:53:26.:53:30.

a grandmother's table 100 years ago. It's really important to teach this

:53:31.:53:34.

history and there are various organisations who have come up with

:53:35.:53:40.

syllabuses and curriculum is to teach through drama. We don't have

:53:41.:53:44.

to share all the gory details with children but they do need to know

:53:45.:53:48.

that it was the largest displacement of people in history. You said you

:53:49.:53:51.

think it's good for people to know what happened. Obviously it will

:53:52.:53:57.

have impacted on you knowing this about your family. How do you feel

:53:58.:54:02.

now you know all about what happened? Well, I feel really sad

:54:03.:54:06.

that my great-grandmother had to go through all of that to make a

:54:07.:54:11.

journey to Pakistan. When she got there, hoping that she would find a

:54:12.:54:16.

home and settle in, she was made a refugee in harrowing country, which

:54:17.:54:22.

was really shocking to find out. I think that by telling more people

:54:23.:54:27.

about it, then as I said before, they will be more sympathetic to the

:54:28.:54:32.

refugees today. Your whole life has been left pretty much in the

:54:33.:54:41.

aftermath of partition. How has it affected you throughout your life?

:54:42.:54:44.

Have you ever got beyond what you went through? It is terrible to

:54:45.:55:04.

forget. It was shocking. My parents were shifted to refugee camps. There

:55:05.:55:16.

were millions of people living there. My father got a job there. He

:55:17.:55:30.

took the job to earn money and look after the family financially. It was

:55:31.:55:47.

terrible to live there... INAUDIBLE It was terrible in winter, summer

:55:48.:55:53.

also, and the rainy days also. I have not been there because my

:55:54.:55:59.

husband told me, you will not be able to bear seeing your parent

:56:00.:56:08.

suffering so much. Those days... INAUDIBLE Thank you so much.

:56:09.:56:15.

The American Cassini space probe is beginning its final phase

:56:16.:56:17.

of its two-decade-long mission to Saturn.

:56:18.:56:25.

Scientists know they're taking a risk, buffeting means Cassini

:56:26.:56:27.

must use its thrusters to maintain control.

:56:28.:56:29.

It promises unprecedented data on the chemical

:56:30.:56:31.

composition and the internal structure of Saturn.

:56:32.:56:32.

We can now speak talk to the space journalist and author Sarah Cruddas.

:56:33.:56:44.

It feels like we are in space! What are you hoping for from this

:56:45.:56:52.

mission? It's been incredible anyhow, one of the best things to

:56:53.:56:56.

come from this mission as always with going into space isn't the

:56:57.:57:00.

science we are doing in space, but simply looking back at Earth.

:57:01.:57:05.

Cassini has spent 20 years on its journey to Saturn and took this

:57:06.:57:09.

picture of Saturn's rings and in the distance is a pale dot and that dot

:57:10.:57:16.

is ours. In terms of science it's been a game changer. Saturn is the

:57:17.:57:21.

second largest planet in our solar system but think of it as a mini

:57:22.:57:24.

solar system in its own way. We don't know quite why it has those

:57:25.:57:30.

rings. It has at least 60 moons and other means we haven't yet

:57:31.:57:34.

identified. It's a world unto itself. Since this mission launched

:57:35.:57:39.

we've discovered two of the means might even have conditions which

:57:40.:57:43.

might mean there is life within our rain solar system. It is game

:57:44.:57:47.

changing stuff. Now we are coming into the final part of the mission

:57:48.:57:50.

which is to do something that no spacecraft has done before. We

:57:51.:57:55.

assume we know so much because we'd been going into space for more than

:57:56.:57:58.

50 years but actually we know so little. We've never been this close

:57:59.:58:02.

to Saturn and its a feat of engineering to use gravity from

:58:03.:58:07.

Saturn's largest moon to slingshot the spacecraft which is 20 years

:58:08.:58:11.

old, to the cloud tops around the gas planets. Thank you.

:58:12.:58:18.

# Clap your hands, clap your hands... #

:58:19.:58:46.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS