02/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Thursday 2nd

November, it's nine o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

Theresa May loses one of her key

allies in the growing scandal

engulfing Westminster.

Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon

resigns for inappropriate sexual

behaviour leaving a key Cabinet

position unfilled and MPs

wondering who might be next.

The culture has changed

over the years.

What might have been

acceptable 15, ten years ago

is clearly not acceptable now.

One senior Conservative politician,

a woman, says it is time to clean

out the stables. Is she right?

Also this morning -

an exclusive report on how

unregulated psychotherapists

are free to practise

on vulnerable patients,

in some cases with devastating

results.

I was asked by the therapist if I

wanted to be given a bath by all

three as a way of showing

nurturing towards me.

It's beyond words.

I was in a place of terror.

We'll have the full interview just

after 9.30 this morning.

And will the Bank of England put up

interest rates later?

If they do, it will for

the first time in ten years.

Bad news for mortgage holders.

Good news for savers.

We'll assess how likely

it is to happen.

Hello.

Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11 this morning.

We're also talking about nursing

shortages this morning

as new figures show a drop-off

in the numbers of EU citizens

wanting to work here.

Let us know - if you're

an EU national working

in the health service,

or perhaps you're experiencing staff

shortages on wards where you work?

Let us know your experiences. We

have a lot of shift workers, NHS

workers who watch the programme.

Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning -

use the hashtag Victoria live

and If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Our top story today...

The Defence Secretary Sir

Michael Fallon has resigned

following accusations

of inappropropriate

sexual behaviour.

He said his conduct had fallen short

of the high standards expected -

he is the first politician to quit

following wider claims of sexual

harrassment at Westminster.

The Prime Minister must now appoint

a new Defence Secretary.

Our political correspondent

Alex Forsyth reports.

Sir Michael Fallon had a reputation

as a reliable figure in Government.

The long-serving MP had

several ministerial jobs,

before becoming defence secretary

three years ago.

But last night he resigned, saying,

at times in the past,

his conduct had fallen short.

I have behaved in the past, clearly,

in a way that has occasionally been

below the standards that we require

of the Armed Forces.

And I don't think it's right for me

to go on as defence secretary,

expecting the very highest standards

of our servicemen and women,

and fail to meet them myself.

Sir Michael had been caught up

in the claims of inappropriate

behaviour currently sweeping

Westminster.

The only public allegation was that,

15 years ago, he had repeatedly

touched the knee of a journalist,

who dismissed it as mildly amusing.

For some, his decision to go

showed there was strong

leadership in Government.

Theresa May has clearly laid the law

down, both to the party,

to Parliament, and also more

particularly to her Cabinet,

and said, these are the standards

that I simply will not accept.

If you fall below them,

with regards to this use of power

to extract from people sexual

favours, or whatever,

that is intolerable

and I won't stand for it.

But, for now, Theresa May has

a spare space around her top table.

She has lost a key ally

and must work out how

to replace him, in a Cabinet

that was already

delicately balanced.

Let's talk to Norman Smith who has

the latest for us...

How damaging is this Theresa May?

Well, it's just given rocket fuel to

the whole sexual harassment scandal

the buffeting of Westminster and a

reason they's government. Michael

Fallon was a point of stability

within a cabinet where we know that

there are big personalities with

very diverging views on Brexit. He

was a political streetfighter, had

been around the block a few times.

He was a go to person for Prime

Ministers in moments of trouble. He

added a bit of glue around Theresa

May but now, he is out of it. More

than that, he says that the reason

that he went was because of

incidents in the past where ten or

15 years ago, they may have been

viewed as banter or flotation but

now would be viewed as unacceptable.

It seems to me to be setting the bar

pretty high for other ministers

because of allegations that are to

emerge about other ministers which

could involve relatively minor

levels of sexually improper

behaviour. That too could be deemed

as an appropriate and those

ministers would also have to go. The

real danger is chunks of the

government start falling off and

more ministers have to quit if there

are more allegations and this is at

a time where we know Theresa May's

leadership is very fragile and while

the government is being battered by

the gale force winds of Brexit.

It

was Michael Fallon pushed, or did he

jump?

Well, there lies the question.

Number 10 will not engage with that.

Those close to Michael Fallon insist

that there were many new allegations

subsequent to the one that you

remember at the start of the week

where he placed his hand on the knee

of the journalist Julia Hartley

Brewer back in 2002. However, I have

to say that I've heard claims that

other women, or at least one other

woman, alerted Downing Street

yesterday to much more recent

allegations, and he was, in effect,

sacked. Downing Street said that

they do not recognise that

interpretation of events, but there

are so many allegations swirling

around here. It seems to me from

Theresa May's perspective, that she

is trying to get a grip of this and

set out her new complaints machinery

and surely, the last thing she would

have wanted is a dribble of

accusations carrying on in the media

over one of her leading

ministers.

Norman Smith, thank you.

We will get the reaction from

Conservative MP Norman for --

Michael Fabricant and leader of the

Green party Caroline Lucas soon.

Annita is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

President Trump has called

for the death penalty

for Sayfullo Saipov,

the man accused of killing eight

people in New York by driving

at them with a truck.

In a tweet, the president claimed

Saipov, who was shot and wounded

by police at the scene,

had asked to hang an Islamic State

flag in his hospital room.

The state of New York has

outlawed the death penalty,

but that can be overruled by the US

government for a federal

crime such as this.

Meanwhile, Saipov,

a 29-year-old originally

from Uzbekistan who's been living

legally in the US for seven

years, has been charged

with terrorism offences.

Law enforcement officials have

been giving reporters

more details about him.

He allegedly admitted that he was

inspired to commit the attack by the

Isis videos that he watched and had

been planning the attack for two

months.

There's been a sharp decline in the

number of nurses and midwives from

the EU wanting to work in the UK.

The nursing and midwifery Council

says comparing this year to last

there has been almost a 90% drop in

new registrations. Sophie Hutchison

reports. Around one in every 20

nurses and midwives working in the

UK was trained in the EU. Many from

Spain, Portugal, Poland and Romania

but according to new figures,

numbers are declining. The nurses

and midwives for regulator, the NMC,

said in the year to 2016, more than

10,000 UK register but this year,

that fell dramatically to around

1000 and the number of EU nurses

working here who decided to give up

their UK registration rose by 67%.

Clearly it is a worrying trend and

for those responsible for thinking

about what we need in future, the

nurses and midwives we need in

future to care for us, they will

obviously look at this and think,

what can we do to reverse that

trend? It's difficult to speculate

as to the reasons why.

The figures

point to previous evidence pointing

to a significant reduction in the

number of EU nurses keen to work in

the UK since the referendum. It has

been described as alarming, the NHS

was short of at least 40,000 nurses.

The government says that they are

ensuring the NHS have the staff they

need with a 25% increase in nurse

training places. Sophie Hutchison,

BBC News. Two soldiers have been

charged with negligence following

the deaths of three soldiers during

an SAS selection march in the Brecon

Beacons. Craig Roberts, Edward Maher

and James Dunsby were taking part in

a 16-mile recruitment exercise on

the hottest day of 2013. A coroner

ruled they died from neglect.

Interest rates could be about to

rise for the first time in ten

years. It's expected the Bank of

England will confirm the move later

today. Economists say it would mean

the cost of some mortgages would go

up, but savers should see better

returns on their money. The Bank of

England says any rise would be

'modest'. Police investigating the

Manchester Arena bombing, which

killed 22 people, have requested the

extradition to the UK of the brother

of the bomber. They've issued an

arrest warrant for Hashem Abedi,

who's currently being held in Libya.

Greater Manchester Police say

authorities there are considering

the request. Police also revealed

512 people are now known to have

been injured in the blast back in

May.

Dustin Hoffman has been accused

of sexually harassing

an intern on the set of one

of his films in 1985.

The writer Anna Graham Hunter says

the Oscar-winning actor

groped her and made inappropriate

comments to her when

she was 17 years old.

Hoffman has apologised,

and said he was sorry

if he "put her in an uncomfortable

situation", adding "it is not

reflective of who I am."

There are warnings over the way

mental health therapy is being

regulated and that it could be

putting vulnerable patients in harms

way. Currently, no statutory

regulation of counsellors or

psychotherapists exists and anyone

can legally give themselves the

title. The government is launching a

consultation on the issue and has

pledged £1.3 billion to transform

mental health services and create

21,000 new posts.

Children from Blackburn are four

times more likely to have fillings

than their counterparts

in South Gloucestershire - according

to a new report on dental health.

It found that as well as there

being a north south regional divide,

there was a consistent gap

between the dental health

of the rich and poor in England.

People from the most deprived

backgrounds were twice as likely

to be admitted to hospital

for dental work.

It's been adopted by Donald Trump

among others, and accused

of influencing elections,

but today 'fake news'

is legitimate news.

It's been named Collins' Word

of the Year, even though

it's a two-word phrase,

of course.

The term was adopted by the US

president during his election

campaign, and has seen its usage

soar by over

300% since 2016.

Other words on the list

include "Corbyn-mania",

describing fervent enthusiasm

for the leader of the Labour Party.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30.

I will be talking about therapists

later on. If you see a therapist,

how do you know that you can trust

them? What checks do you do on them?

Send us your experiences and we will

feed those experiences into the

conversation. Hugh is here with the

sport, Spurs were magnificent in the

Champions League last night, weren't

they?

Good morning, they were, if I was a

Spurs fan I would be waking up with

a sore head this morning! One of the

best results in their history,

playing real Madrid, they have won

single of the last four cups. Sergio

Ramos, Luka Modric, the list goes on

and on but Pochettino's young team

put in a near-perfect performance

last night, dominating at Wembley

for a 3-1 win inspired by England's

Dele Alli, scoring twice on the

night. His team-mate Christian

Eriksen made his team-mates

delirious! There was a late Ronaldo

consolation but it was not enough

for the Spanish giants. It's their

first win over the Spanish team in

their history. Spurs are being sent

into the knockout stages as a

result, a fantastic win for them.

Dele Alli will have to share the

headlines with Sergio Aguero of

Manchester City, he has become the

club's leading goal-scorer of all

time, after a 4-2 win over Natalie,

Italy, the 170th goal for the club.

Manager Pep Guardiola called him a

legend. They reached the last --

Liverpool are not there yet that it

rounds up a good night for British

clubs with a 3-0 win over Maribor.

And more history was made overnight

in the baseball World Series?

What a moment for the people of

Houston, you may remember the

devastation that came with Hurricane

Harvey, resulting in nearly 100

deaths but the city has found

solace. A reason to smile as their

baseball team, the Houston Astros,

won again decided to get to 4-3 over

the LA Dodgers, their first series

win. They dedicated the title to the

people of the city but George

Springer, their MVP, became the

first player to hit home runs in

four successive World Series games.

The day was made even more perfect

for one of his team-mates. Take a

look at this.

You make me the

happiest man in the world... Will

you marry me?

Oh, my God!

A touching

moments between this player

proposing to his girlfriend, Daniela

Rodriguez. Look at art rock! More

than one month's wagers on that! He

dedicated the win to those victims

of hurricane Maria, which affected

Puerto Rico.

What a way for us to start the day

here!

Thank God Daniela Rodriguez said yes

as well!

Thank you. More for the sport

throughout the morning.

We will be talking about allegations

of sexual abuse and harassment at

Westminster again... Last night the

Defence Secretary resigned. He said

his past behaviour had fallen short

of the standards expected. His

departure leaves the Prime Minister

Theresa May with a major hole in her

Cabinet and is leaving many MPs

wondering who might be next. Laura

Kuenssberg asked Sir Michael Fallon

if he was resigning now because he

was more worried there were more

allegations to emerge.

Well, the culture has

changed over the years.

What might have been acceptable 15,

ten years ago is clearly

not acceptable now.

Parliament now has to look at itself

and the Prime Minister has made very

clear that conduct needs to be

improved and we need to protect

the staff of Westminster

against any particular

allegations of harassment.

But do you feel that you yourself

have done anything wrong?

I have behaved in the past clearly

in a way that has been occasionally

below the standards that we require

of the Armed Forces and I don't

think it's right for me to go

on as Defence Secretary expecting

the very high standards

of our service men and women

and fail to meet them myself.

Do you feel you should

apologise for what happened?

I think we've all got to look

back now at the past

and there are always things

you regret, you would

have done differently.

Do you think, do you believe

that there is a widespread problem

in the culture at Westminster?

Clearly.

The Prime Minister has

made it clear now.

There are a number of

allegations swirling around.

Many of them are obviously false,

but there are some serious issues

here that staff at Westminster need

to be better protected and that

claims of harassment need to be

properly investigated.

The Prime Minister has now set that

machinery in motion and clearly that

from now on has to apply

to all of us.

The former Conservative leader Iain

Duncan Smith says the Prime Minister

has now laid down the law.

I am told

categorically that she was, how can

I put it, very clear when she's

bowed to the Cabinet about what she

plans to do and what she wants to do

and that clarity leaves various

members of the Cabinet and of the

party generally to recognise

whatever limitations there were

about their behaviour in the past

and to decide whether or not they

met the standards and clearly

Michael Fallon felt that was not the

case and he took there for a

decision to resign. But the key

element is not so much on Michael

Fallon's decision, but the reason

for that decision and the reason was

that Theresa May has made it very

clear, and I know she feels very

strongly about this, that we have to

lead in Parliament on this so others

themselves recognise they have to

behave in the House.

Theresa May

admitted she was deeply concerned by

recent reports and she has invited

Jeremy Corbyn and other party

leaders, including the Green Party's

leader Caroline Lucas, to the

meeting.

meeting.

Let's talk now to Michael Fabricant,

Conservative MP for Lichfield

who was named on a list of MPs

accusing him of inappropriate

behaviour.

When you listen to Iain Duncan Smith

there appears to be zero tolerance

for almost anything, including

putting your hand on some of's need

almost 15 years ago. Do you think

there will be other resignations?

It

is not for me to speculate.

The bar

has been set so load-bearing is

bound to be.

I guess I can say

depending on what the level of the

bar is would anyone be in that

position? I have never thought it

appropriate to put someone's hands

on their knee, it is not something I

think you should do. But precisely

where the bar has been set and

precisely where people's pasts are,

they will have to ask themselves.

Michael Fallon was a big ally of the

Prime Minister, a good friend, a

solid person around that Cabinet

table. How damaging is this for

Theresa May?

Well, it is not good,

and nor should anyone pretended to

be good, because as you quite

rightly say Michael Fallon is a

loyal Secretary of State and she

will miss him because of that and

because he was a very able Secretary

of State. No Prime Minister likes to

have a reshuffle when reshuffles

have not been planned by that Prime

Minister long in advance, but I

suspect we will get over it.

Has she

got a grip of the situation?

We will

have to see how matters proceed over

the next few weeks.

Not necessarily

yet that she has got a grip?

It is

not down to her, it is down to the

past of individual MPs and it is

also down to how seriously we are

going to take allegations on

spreadsheets which are spread on

social media and which might have no

basis in truth in some cases as we

are already finding out.

Michael

Fallon said he was resigning because

his behaviour had not reached

standards expected of him. On the

list you mention, an unverified list

of allegations against Conservative

MPs, some of whom are ministers,

some of the people on the list, what

is said about them is inaccurate and

some of them it is innocuous, you

outed yourself, what are you

supposed to have done?

I got a phone

call on Monday morning from Channel

4 and I was in a conversation with

someone at the time and I took the

phone call and I was told I was on

the list and I was incredulous. I

looked down the list of wrongdoings,

I did not have the names of MPs at

that stage and I did not recognise

anything that could have remotely

been to do with me. The following

day somebody sent me, because they

found it on twitter, the unredacted

list, and this is the problem. It

said that I had been inappropriate

with a male journalist in a taxi.

For the life of me I cannot remember

being in the back of a taxi with a

male journalist, so I guess I must

have been after 25 years of being an

MP, and what did inappropriate mean?

Had I asked him about his expenses

or have I done something far more

serious? If it was more serious, why

didn't the journalists write about

it? I had been talking to

journalists at the House of commons

who are great gossips and none of

them had heard this story before. It

is remarkable it has not come out.

How do you being about being on that

list inaccurately?

I think it is

most unfair and the thing that

concerns me, and I have long been

asking for this, a mechanism, which

protects young, vulnerable people

who work in the House of commons

because there is this imbalance of

power and you have young researchers

who are particularly vulnerable and

who do not want to make a complaint

because they are frightened of their

own careers, so we must protect

them, both men and women by the way.

You have had men come to you

complaining about being sexually

harassed.

As a whip. We also need to

set up mechanisms that protect MPs

from being accused of doing things

which have subsequently been shown

not to be true.

You have libel laws

of course.

You do, but how do you

sue social media and that is the

problem. That is why I had to out

myself because no alleged victim had

come out, so the BBC and newspapers

would not have published my name,

but I chose to do it because there

needs to be a voice saying not only

must we protect young people, we

must also protect MPs as well,

particularly from scurrilous

accusations being made by a

16-year-old in a back room on

twitter.

Thank you very much,

Michael Fabricant. Let's talk now to

Caroline Lucas, co-leader of the

Green Party. Good morning. How

should Theresa May get a grip on

this?

I think she needs to put in

place, and I am grateful she is

reaching out across the political

parties to do this together, but she

needs to put in place a transparent,

robust and crucially independent

structure whereby these kinds of

accusations are not just circulating

on spreadsheets, but there is a very

clear line of accountability, a line

where anybody who has any experience

or knows of anybody who has

experience of this, can go somewhere

and know their concerns are going to

be followed up properly, that there

will be no concern that if something

happens that will be undermining for

their career in the future. That is

unacceptable.

If an alleged victim

of sexual harassment came to you and

said, this has happened to me, what

advice would you give them now?

Now

I think we are all more aware of the

fact structures are being put in

place. Hotline was set up a couple

of years ago, frankly not many

people knew about that, that was

after the Channel 4 investigation in

2014, and things have not changed

enough. It would depend on the

situation, whether it was someone in

my party or another party. But you

have to have independent, robust

channels and if it is at the extreme

end where a crime has been

committed, they should go to the

police and go through a court case.

As well as these legal structures,

we need to change the culture as

well. One of the things that struck

me about what Michael Fallon said is

that some of this behaviour might

have been appropriate ten years ago.

Well, now it was not, it was not

appropriate ten years ago and it is

not appropriate now. I think calling

for training for MPs, which might

sound ludicrous, but that might be

necessary because professional

boundaries have not been respected.

Some mandatory boundaries to bring

all MPs up to speak about what is

acceptable levels of behaviour would

not go amiss in Parliament.

It is

interesting you think that is

required.

I wish it was not

required, but we have been here

before, we were here in 2014 with

that Channel 4 investigation and it

does not appear that behaviour has

changed all that much, so let's make

sure that MPs know what the

boundaries are. I wish it was not

necessary, but I think it is and I

think Parliament is in a particular

position, both because we should be

a beacon of best practice rather

than worse, and because of the

almost unique employment structure

here where MPs are the direct

employers of their own staff and we

should be looking at other models.

In the European Parliament it used

to be the case, I am not sure if it

still is, that any members of the

European Parliament set up

structures to be the former

employers, so there is a buffer

between the elected representative

and the people working for them so

all of the human resources capacity

was already manifested there, you

did not have to bring a complaint

about an MP to an MP.

Have you ever

been sexually harassed during your

political career?

I have not, no.

But I know plenty of people who

have.

Thank you for talking to us,

Caroline Lucas.

Thank you for talking

to us, Caroline Lucas.

Katy Balls from the Spectator

is here with me now -

for those of you that don't know

the magazine - it's

generally supportive

of the Conservative Party.

You were holding your Parliamentary

awards last night and the Prime

Minister could not be there because

of Michael Fallon's resignation at

seven o'clock. Everyone was obsessed

about that and quite rightly.

It was

interesting as the news broke at the

beginning of the wood awards that he

was stepping down. The reaction was

one of sadness but understanding why

it had come to be.

Why sadness?

Sadness at the state of politics.

Not necessarily because of him?

No.

In layman's terms how destabilising

is it for the Prime Minister to lose

somebody like Michael Fallon, a key

ally, a friend, very stable, solid

and loyal?

He was one of her most

loyal Cabinet members and she is in

shock that short supply with them

these days. Obviously this was a

resignation. It looks like it was

somewhere in the middle, but if you

look at the other people there are

people like Anna Soubry and Nicky

Morgan, former ministers, and in

terms of this one it will not cause

her as many problems as previous

ones.

Norman Smith, our Assistant

political editor was saying earlier

that the problem is because of where

the benchmark is now for a

resignation, then you could see

other chunks of the government as he

put it falling off. Is that a real

possibility?

I think there are a few

people who think there could be more

resignations. There is an argument

in the party that rather than just

replacing the Defence Secretary this

is an opportunity for Theresa May to

do much muted cabinet reshuffle and

take decisive action to clean up the

cabinet. It will be a lot more

embarrassing if you drop these

people off one by one as more

allegations come out.

Which is what

Ruth Davidson were saying, a senior

Conservative politician in Scotland,

it is time to clean up the stable.

She set it at your event.

She said

it at the event and what was

acceptable in the past is no longer

there and we have a higher benchmark

and that is important because

politicians ultimately should be

held to very high standards, they

represent the nation.

I do not know

if Ruth Davidson was suggesting that

Theresa May sex people when there

are stories about them. Is that what

she was saying?

She would not sack

them because there were allegations.

With Michael Fallon he admitted he

had done something and he said he

had behaved below the standards. I

do not think the suggestion is

anyone who is accused should go.

With this spreadsheet that has been

going around there are a lot of

things going on like consensual,

extramarital affairs to serious

allegations and it is trying to work

out what the most serious things are

and focusing, rather than becoming

the moral police.

Some comments here, if I can get

those, bear with me... John

e-mailed, please stop going on just

about the Conservatives, what about

other parties? I'm sorry about this

but I wouldn't employ anyone other

than family members. Someone else

says that many women have benefited

from working the system.

Still to come:

An exclusive report for this

programme finds that some vulnerable

patients are being seriously

traumatised by unregulated

counsellors and psychotherapists.

For the first time since 2007,

interest rates are expected to rise

For the first time since 2007,

interest rates are expected to rise.

We'll hear from

homeowners and savers.

Time for the latest news -

here's Annita.

The headlines now on BBC News.

The Defence Secretary Sir

Michael Fallon has resigned

following accusations

of inappropropriate

sexual behaviour.

He said his conduct had fallen short

of the high standards expected -

he is the first politician to quit

following wider claims of sexual

harrassment at Westminster.

The Prime Minister must now appoint

a new Defence Secretary.

I have behaved in the past in a way

that has occasionally been below the

standards we require of the Armed

Forces and I do not think it is

right for me to go on as Defence

Secretary, expecting the highest

standards of our servicemen and

women and failing to meet them

myself.

President Trump has called

for the death penalty

for Sayfullo Saipov -

the man accused of killing eight

people in New York by driving

at them with a truck.

In a tweet, the president claimed

Saipov, who was shot and wounded

by police at the scene,

had asked to hang an Islamic State

flag in his hospital room.

The state of New York has

outlawed the death penalty,

but that can be overruled by the US

government for a federal

crime such as this.

Interest rates could be

about to rise for the first

time in ten years.

It's expected the Bank of England

will confirm the move later today.

Economists say it would mean

the cost of some mortgages would go

up, but savers should see better

returns on their money.

The Bank of England says any

rise would be 'modest'.

Victoria has more on this story in a

few minutes time.

There's been a sharp decline

in the number of nurses and midwives

from the European Union wanting

to work in the UK.

The Nursing and Midwifery Council

says there was almost a 90% drop

in new registrations for EU nurses

comparing this year to last year.

The Department for Health says

a rise in training places

will compensate for the fall.

Two men have been charged

with negligence following the deaths

of three soldiers during an SAS

selection march in

the Brecon Beacons.

Craig Roberts, Edward Maher

and James Dunsby were taking part

in a 16-mile recruitment exercise

on the hottest day of 2013.

A coroner ruled they

died from neglect.

They said parts of the planning and

conduct in the march was not fit for

purpose.

That's a summary of the latest news.

Thank you. Vincent has tweeted, on

the resignation of Michael Fallon,

says, that was quick, there must be

more to this. Another says that he's

only gone to the backbench. Janine

says, below the acceptable level of

what is required by the Armed

Forces? No, by the whole of society.

It is interesting to hear your views

on what Caroline Lucas, the

co-leader of the Green Party was

saying, that there should be

mandatory training for MPs to end

the culture of sexual harassment.

Tell us your own views. Hugh is back

with the sport...

Spurs beat the 12-time

European Champions Real Madrid

for the first time in one

of the best results

in their history.

England's Dele Alli scored twice

in the 3-1 win at Wembley,

which takes Tottenham

into the knockout stages of this

season's competition.

They'll be joined

by Manchester City.

They beat Napoli 4-2 in Italy

and there was history for striker

Sergio Aguero who became

the club's record goalscorer

with his 178th goal for City.

Liverpool aren't into

the last 16 just yet.

They beat Maribor 3-0 at Anfield

to stay top of Group E.

And the Houston Astros have won

baseball's World Series

for the first time in their history,

beating the LA Dodgers 5-1 overnight

in the series decider.

They dedicated the win to those

affected by Hurricane Harvey.

That's some of the sport, I'll be

back with more just after ten

o'clock.

Thank you. It's just gone 9:30am.

The need for mental health services

has never been greater.

Talking therapists

like counsellors and

psychotherapists are

the people many of us turn

to when we're at our

lowest emotional ebb,

yet there are concerns over how

the industry is regulated.

As the government launches

its consultation paper on the issue,

our correspondent June Kelly has

been investigating what happens

when things go wrong.

So June, who are these people

who offer this sort of help

and what sort of rules

are they bound by?

First of all, they are

psychiatrists, -- there are

psychiatrists who are medically

qualified and are under the council.

If you made a complaint, they can

arrange penalties and the most

severe of which is that they are

struck off. Psychologists are also

legally regulated by the health and

care professions Council. Then you

have thousands more councillors and

psychotherapists. You could be

referred to one of those by your GP

or sometimes go privately, pay-out

of your own pocket. These people are

not subject to statutory regulation.

Many are members of organisations,

one of the largest is the British

Association for Counselling and

Psychotherapy but they are not

legally regulated. If you see a or

psychotherapist who is not on the

register but a member of one of

those organisations you have

mentioned and you want to make a

complaint about them, what happens?

You make the complaint and it is

heard by a panel. If it is upheld

they can apply penalties, they cut

through the person out of the

organisation but even if they are

thrown out they can continue to

practice as they are not breaking

the law.

Bright, so they can set up,

rebrand and carry on? Exactly. You

have spoken to one person who ended

up in an absolutely terrible state

because they were subjected to

harmful counselling.

Yes, that we

are calling this lady, Marie, and

she was subjected to sexual abuse

throughout her childhood and into

her teens. In her 40s, she went and

sought help from therapists as

people are told to do. She had three

female therapists who, in some

sessions, she saw all of them all

together which is very unorthodox.

She was traumatised by the whole

experience and it cost her more than

£30,000. Here, we have her story.

Well, I was sexually abused, quite,

you know, extensively, extreme,

from age nine through to about 18

and as a result of that I ended up

seeking therapy in my later years.

So the therapist that you saw,

when you started seeing them,

did you think, these women know

what they're doing?

Yes.

Yes.

They were saying all

the right things.

The identification of how

you feel and, you know,

because it is such a complex area.

And when did you start

to become concerned?

The sessions were, I can only

describe it as horrific.

The main therapist didn't bother

to check out any of my history,

so she knew nothing about me.

She knew nothing about the abuse

in any shape or form.

There was three of them.

There was the therapist sat

directly in front of me,

so close in my face,

and the other two at the side of me.

I wasn't allowed to cross my legs,

so every time I crossed my legs,

the therapist would knock

them back over.

This went on for about ten minutes

and then she actually got hold

of me, holding my arms,

started breathing in my face,

looking in my eyes.

She was so close, it was very,

very intimidating, body

space being invaded.

Anything to do with breathing,

I've got, you know, such a reaction

to it because it reminds me

of sexual assaults

when I was younger.

I was getting very, very

distressed and feeling

very sick, very ill,

shaking, and it's at that point

they actually brought a sick

bowl in because I was

so distressed and traumatised.

I was asked by the therapist

if I wanted to be given a bath

by all three as a way of showing

nurturing towards me.

It's beyond words.

I was in a place of terror.

But when you went back

after the first session...

Yes.

..despite what they'd done to you,

is that an indication

of how fragile you were?

That you still went back,

even though they'd done

dreadful things to you?

Yes.

I mean, you go back, you know?

It wasn't to say I wasn't

feeling alarm bells,

something's not quite right,

but I had no recollection at that

point of the severity

of what they'd actually done.

And on that point you made

complaints against all of them,

all three of them?

I did, yes.

I did e-mail one of the therapists

to establish what type of therapy,

what type of modality have you used

on me that's left me

feeling so traumatised?

I then put, through the help

of a professional therapist

and her supervisor, an e-mail

together starting to ask questions.

You know, who are

you registered with?

I actually included

all three complaints

to all three organisations,

so they were all fully

aware that all three

were being complaint against.

And what was the outcome

of those complaints?

Initially the therapist said that

I was on a vengeful rage.

They ran the hearing with four out

of five of the allegations upheld

into the next hearing.

I had to present my own case,

question the therapist.

It's a very, very intense situation.

It was heartening that I'd been

believed in its entirety.

Sadly for me, that organisation

hadn't followed it's fitness

to practise procedures

in the hearing.

Therefore the therapist appealed

and a separate hearing was held

without me there and six months

later and the suspension

was withdrawn.

So all these three women then

continue to practice?

Yes, yep.

It is appalling.

It's disgraceful.

It's...

They've caused me so much harm

and yet any sanction or any...

It just wasn't there

because the sanctions they give,

it's just like a slap on the wrist

and yet they've come along,

you know, really messed up

somebody's life and then just gone.

And you wouldn't want anybody

else to go through it?

No, absolutely not.

You know, most therapists

are ethical, but for the ones that

aren't and there's quite a few out

there, there's no deterrent.

I think it would break most

people and, you know,

they've been broken once,

that's why they're going to therapy.

It's heartbreaking to imagine

that they could end up

in a situation that just puts

further harm on to the harm they've

already had through no

fault of their own.

So, how do you know if you can trust

your therapist?

Here to discuss whether there needs

to be better regulation

of the therapy industry

is Marjorie Wallace from SANE,

Ben Bradshaw MP who sits

on the Commons Health Committee,

and Gary Fereday,

the Chief Executive

of the British Psychoanalytic

Council.

Your reaction to that story first of

all?

It's absolutely horrific,

obviously. But my reaction is, we

find that you do not have too have

such extreme damage. Therapies have

side effects, like medication. Some

of them are healing and sometimes

they can do damage, much more subtle

than that. They can divide families

and make a person turn against the

people caring for them. That is an

awful case but we come across

something that takes a longer time

to unravel. There is very little

recourse.

We will come to that, and

Ben Bradshaw, what about you?

That

interview will you did with June

Kelly earlier on and that sums up

why it is time to regulate these

areas properly. Statutory

regulation, I do not think the

current system is working. I've had

a distressing case in my own

constituency which is how I

originally got involved. The

government hates regulating and more

regulation but we have learned MPs

need regulating, the BBC needs

regulating, all big organisations

and professions need independent

regulation to be healthy.

Gary, what

is the point of your organisation,

? Hull what I have seen there is

appalling, it's incredibly

unorthodox. How do you regulate

them?

We have a public register and

maintain set standards of ethical

codes.

How many are registered with

you?

We have a niche body, there are

only about 1500 of us, we are quite

a small body.

What checks do you

make on them before they register?

Everybody has to go through one of

our trainings, which is highly

regarded. Hubei? Within the wider

mental health field, many of our

leading registers are senior

academic posts in leading

universities. It is an evidence

-based form of psychotherapy.

How

much do they pay you to be on your

register?

About £250 per year to be

on our register.

Under what

circumstances would you not renew a

registration, or would you strike

them off the register?

That case

I've just seen, without knowing all

of the details, it seems an absolute

case for striking someone off

without doubt but we can apply a

range of sanctions and, as Marjorie

was saying, some of these issues are

more subtle. Sometimes asking

someone to do more training or have

increased supervision.

How many have

you removed from your register?

In

recent years we've had two complete

removals and there are a range of

other people.

Have they rebranded

and set up again?

I'm not entirely

certain in those two cases.

They

could do, that is the point?

Absolutely, it's a real problem in

the profession.

But aren't you part

of the problem? There are so many

organisations like you where people

can pay 250 quid to be on your

register. And, you know, they could

be doing all sorts to patients.

They could be.

Are you not part of

the problem?

We are now

collaborating and trying to set some

clearer boundaries and there are

some real issues on definition on

what is psychotherapy.

What is the

point of view if someone you think

is damaging the page and come you

can clear them off your register and

they can go somewhere else and start

again?

They could do, but if we

could collaborate more closely with

other bodies and work more closely

with the government, which we have

done...

They can rebrand again

whether you collaborate or not.

They

can and we recognise that. That is

for the government to do.

You would

welcome it?

We would look at it with

real interest because it is a

complicated issue.

It does not sound

it.

The complexity is what is

counsellor and what is a

psychotherapist? There are some real

great areas. That is not to say we

are against statutory regulation,

but it needs thought and we would

welcome the opportunity to work

closer with the government to get it

right.

Marjorie, what needs to

change?

We need to have statutory

regulation, but you have got about

60,000 odd therapists and they ruled

themselves which is a problem. It is

like a random crowd with different

agendas, needs, skills and outcomes

and it is very hard to measure

success. Success could be one person

getting out of bed and going to the

shop, or a person has turned their

life over. If you are physically

ill, you can measure whether you get

better. If you are mentally

disturbed, it is hard to measure the

success, so different bodies have

different ideas of what is success

and failure. But what we ought to be

able to do is to be able to have

some way that, not the bodies

themselves, if it is one skill or

one psychodynamic, it is not them

who should be registering them, it

should be somebody else above them

monitoring what is going on.

Legislation is not necessarily a

panacea, but why do you think it

would read the sector, the industry,

of the rogue therapists?

Because of

all the arguments we have heard. To

be fair to Gary, his organisation is

a good one and they are doing what

they can, but Marjorie has

highlighted some of the challengers.

It is I diverse sector, it is huge,

there are different types of

therapies and counsellors and they

believe in different things.

Regulation would be expensive and

would cost money, statutory

regulation always costs money, but

we have learned in our country

regulation is important and you have

to pay for it if you

want the patients and the public to

have confidence that when they see

someone they will get good

treatment. If they do not there is a

proper complaints process and action

can be taken. This is a revolving

door in my own constituent's case,

this therapist was struck off and

they continued operating. At the

moment I do not think the powers are

significant enough. The government

wants to regulate less, but in this

area where people are so vulnerable

and where they see a psychotherapist

or a counsellor, they are in

particular need to have confidence

in the system they are involved in

and that it is safe.

Thank you for

coming on the programme.

Coming up.

As new figures are released

of children referred to social

services, we'll be talking to people

who've had positive

experiences of the system.

Some positive stories about social

workers.

Some positive stories

about social workers.

We've become used to cheap borrowing

and poor returns on savings.

That's because the Bank of England -

which sets interest rates -

hasn't put them up for ten years.

That's expected to change today,

with rates likely to increase

from their historic low of 0.25%.

So what does it mean?

In short, a rate rise is good

for savers, but bad for borrowers.

So if you're NOT on a fixed rate

mortgage, you might well

see your payments go up,

but if you've got savings -

expect a little bit more coming back

to you in your interest payments.

Now before we talk to our guests -

have a think back to where

you were when interest rates

last went up.

One of the first things

you'll notice about

the iPhone is its simple

design.

With us in the studio

is a Bronwyn Curtis,

an economist who can explain

what the members of the MPC will be

thinking, and via Skype let's talk

to a couple of viewers -

Carole who has savings.

Hello, how are these decisions made?

There are nine members of the

monetary policy committee and some

of them worked at the Bank of

England and some are external

members and each of them has an

individual vote. Last month they

voted 7-2 against raising rates, or

making any changes to monetary

policy. But the Bank of England

Governor, Mark Carney, has been

signalling, and other members of the

committee have been signalling that

perhaps it is time to take the foot

a little bit off the accelerator.

They are not saying they are taking

it up completely, but just to put

rates up a little bit.

What do they

take into account before making

their decision? What areas of the

economy are they looking at?

The

main thing is they have a target for

inflation, 2%. They have not met it.

It was 1% a year ago and now it is

up to 3% mostly because the pound

has dropped and the goods we are

importing like cheese or olives, I'm

much more expensive. It has risen to

3% and it is still rising. But they

look at the target over the longer

term, so that is not the big issue.

Unemployment is at a 40 year low and

they put in place an emergency rate

cut of 0.25% just after the Brexit

referendum because they were worried

that spending might collapse, people

might be so worried. That did not

happen, whether it was because of

the rate cut or it was not going to

happen anyway we are not sure. I

think they think it is time to take

a little bit of that easing, or that

acceleration of monetary policy, out

of the system. I agree.

Let me bring

in Carol. You are savoured. You

would like to see interest rates go

up I am assuming? I do not want to

put that in your mind.

Definitely

and my daughter is saving for a

house and she would like interest

rates to go up, I definitely want

them to go up.

What difference would

that make to you?

It would not make

a huge difference because I do not

think they are going up hugely, but

it would be a little bit extra on

the savings we have got. I am still

working and everything, but I also

think it would help encourage people

to save something. My other children

do not see the point in saving at

the moment because they do not get

anything on their money when they

put it away.

You may as well put it

under your pillow because rates are

so low. But as an economist, Bronwyn

Curtis, if they put the interest

rates up to 0.5%, what difference

does it make? Does that really

encourage people to save more and?

Does that slow inflation?

It sends a

message to start with. Ten years ago

when they cut rates we were facing a

situation globally of perhaps

deviation and prices falling and

recession and so on. That is not

happening. In terms of the impact,

any increase in rates have some

impact. But 90% of new mortgages are

on fixed rate and across the whole

of the housing stock, so in all of

the mortgages it is just under 60%.

It will have an effect but not that

much.

If you are on a tracker rate

or a standard variable only then

will you be affected if they go up

today?

Unless they decide it is not

just one rate hike and they might do

more in the future and there is talk

of one earlier next year. But it is

not like other cycles. The world is

not like it was before the financial

crisis. In the past they would have

put rates up several times in quick

succession to dampen inflation and

to get back to their target. No one

is expecting that this time.

So you

said you think it is time for them

to go up.

Why do you think that?

When we look at what has been

happening all the benefits of low

rates have pushed in. The economy is

OK, it is not fantastic, it is OK.

And we have seen money instead of

going into savings and such, they

have been going into houses and we

have seen money going into houses

and house prices are overvalued,

stock markets are overvalued and

savers have been putting their money

into more risky things to get the

return they want. We are at the

point where some of the negative

impact is greater than the benefits.

Taking a little bit back now is

probably the right thing to do.

Carroll, thank you very much. You

will hear the news on BBC News at

midday. If you have a mortgage,

something like 150,000 lower, if it

goes at a quarter of a percent you

will be paying between £20 and £40

extra a month. That will affect some

of you absolutely. Let me know your

views. News and sport at ten

o'clock, before that coming here is

the weather.

We have had a whole range of

temperatures this morning and we

have a weather front heading south

and under that it has been cloudy

and we have had patchy rain. As well

as that, we have also got some fog

in the forecast in Dumfries and

Galloway and in the southern

counties. It should clear in the

next hour or so. We have also had

some beautiful blue skies and a hole

in the cloud in Wales led to that.

It is sinking southwards, taking the

rain with it, and behind it are

brighter conditions. Much drier in

Northern Ireland, Scotland and

northern England. It will not feel

as warm as it did yesterday.

Meanwhile, the weather front moves

south and it will lift the fog. We

are looking at a bright afternoon

rather than a sunny one. As you head

towards the south coast, there will

be some sunny spells in the

forecast. It is the same in southern

counties generally. It will be

bright rather than sunny. This

weather front produces thicker cloud

with the odd spot of rain, but

further north the sun comes out. For

Scotland we are looking at a maximum

of eight or nine. In the North East

yesterday they reached 15. For

Northern Ireland it is brightening

up all the time, Belfast getting up

to about 11. South Wales is still

under the influence of the weather

front, but sunshine will come out in

North Wales. Overnight the weather

front moves a little bit further

north, taking some patchy rain with

it. By the end of the night we have

got the next weather front coming in

across north-west Scotland. Tomorrow

that will bring in some rain with

strengthening winds. The fog will

lift through the course of the

morning and foremost it will be a

largely dry day through daylight

hours. Later in the day we will see

more rain sweep in from the

south-west and that will move north

eastwards and join the weather front

coming south. Saturday morning will

be quite wet with this band of rain

continuing to slowly edged towards

the east. The time of this might

change, so keep in touch with the

forecast. It will also be a blustery

day with showers from the West and

that leads into Sunday. A ridge of

high pressure built in and things

will settle down and it will be a

dry end to the day.

Thank you so much, Carol.

Hello, it's Thursday 2nd

November, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon

resigns as allegations of sexual

harassment and abuse

at Westminster continue to build,

including a leaked dossier of

allegations against dozens of MPs.

Conservative MP Michael

Fabricant was among them.

They told me I was on this list. I

was incredulous. I looked over the

list of wrongdoings, I did not have

the names of the MPs at that stage,

I could not recognise anything that

could have had anything remotely to

do with me. The following day,

somebody sent me, because they found

it on Twitter which is the problem,

the unredacted list. What did it say

about me? But I had been

inappropriate with a male journalist

in a taxi. -- that I had been

inappropriate.

We'll bring you the

latest on the fallout.

Caroline Lucas says that mandatory

training should be introduced to get

rid of the culture. Your thoughts on

that welcome.

The number of EU nurses registering

to work in Britain has dropped

by almost 90% since the Brexit vote.

So what can be done to make sure

nurses aren't put off working here?

We'll speak to one nurse from Spain

who's been here for over 17 years

-

and now says his

future is uncertain.

The "black death" plague that's

killed over 100 people

and infected more than

1,000 in Madagscar -

nine countries have issued

plague warnings as fears

the disease will spread by air.

We'll speak to people there.

let's have a look at the latest

news.

Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of todays news.

The Defence Secretary Sir

Michael Fallon has resigned

following accusations

of inappropriate sexual behaviour.

He said his conduct had fallen short

of the high standards expected -

he is the first politician to quit

following wider claims of sexual

harrassment at Westminster.

Talking to this programme, the Green

party co-leader Caroline Lucas says

more drastic action is needed...

We need to change the culture. One

of the things that really struck me

about what Michael Fallon said was

that some of this behaviour might

have been appropriate ten years ago.

Well, no it wasn't. It wasn't then

and it certainly is not now. That's

why I've been calling as well for

some training for an', it sounds

ludicrous that that is necessary but

we have seen so many cases where

professional boundaries have not

been respected that some kind of

mandatory training to bring all MPs

up to speed with what is

unacceptable level of behaviour will

not go amiss in Parliament.

President Trump has called

for the death penalty

for Sayfullo Saipov -

the man accused of killing eight

people in New York by driving

at them with a truck.

In a tweet, the president claimed

Saipov, who was shot and wounded

by police at the scene,

had asked to hang an Islamic State

flag in his hospital room.

The state of New York has

outlawed the death penalty,

but that can be overruled by the US

government for a federal

crime such as this.

Meanwhile, Saipov -

a 29-year-old originally

from Uzbekistan who's been living

legally in the US for seven

years - has been charged

with terrorism offences.

Law enforcement officials have

been giving reporters

more details about him:

Saipov allegedly admitted

that he was inspired to commit

the attack by the Isis videos

he watched, and had been planning

this attack for two months.

There's been a sharp decline

in the number of nurses and midwives

from the European Union wanting

to work in the UK.

The Nursing and Midwifery Council

says there was almost a 90% drop

in new registrations for EU nurses

comparing this year to last year.

The Department for Health says

a rise in training places

will compensate for the fall.

Two men have been charged

with negligence following the deaths

of three soldiers in

the Brecon Beacons during

an SAS selection march.

Craig Roberts, Edward Maher

and James Dunsby were taking part

in a 16-mile recruitment exercise

on the hottest day of 2013.

All had suffered from hyperthermia

and a coroner ruled

they died from neglect.

Interest rates could be

about to rise for the first

time in ten years.

It's expected the Bank of England

will confirm the move later today.

Economists say it would mean

the cost of some mortgages would go

up, but savers should see better

returns on their money.

The Bank of England says any

rise would be 'modest'.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30.

A couple of comments from you on

various subjects on the programme

today. On therapists and their

regulation, Martin tweeted that as a

professional psychotherapist he's

called for statutory regulation for

over 20 years but the government

doesn't seem to want it.

Gail said today that she only found

out about nonregulation of

therapists through the programme,

and someone else said that the story

is terrifying and they look forward

to for regulation. Caroline Lucas

said that there should be mandatory

training for an' to get rid of the

sexual harassment culture at

Westminster -- training for NPs.

Someone says, if you do not know how

to conduct yourself, you should not

be in office. Someone else said that

it's a ridiculous idea but Karen

says listening to these

recommendations that MPs need

training, she believes it should be

implemented and should be part of

all company inductions in public and

private sectors. I agree that the

boundaries do need to be clearly set

out. If you are getting in touch,

send us a tweet on Twitter, use the

hashtag Victoria live.

If you text, we will have two

charge. Sorry about that. Let's have

a look at the sport...

We are reflecting on a fantastic

night for Tottenham

whose Wembley hoo-doo

is well and truly over.

They beat the Champions

League holders

Real Madrid for the first time

in their history with

a dominant 3-1 victory.

Two goals came from

England's Dele Alli,

with Christian Eriksen sealing

the win with the third.

Mauricio Pochettino's side have

now reached the last 16

with two games to spare.

Yes, of course, so happy.

Very pleased for the performance,

the performance was fantastic.

I think it's an important victory,

victory for the club,

for the fans, for the

players, for everyone.

I think, yes, so happy

after tonight.

He could barely control his

excitement there.

It was a night of history

for Manchester City's Sergio Aguero

who broke the club's goal-scoring

record to also put them

through to the knock-out stages

of the Champions League.

He scored his 178th goal for City,

in a 4-2 win at Napoli.

When one guy achieves

what he has achieved,

so it's just a big congratulations.

For all his team-mates

he played with, managers,

it's big news for him,

so he's a legend.

For the club, for the history,

and enjoy it, so everybody has to be

so proud of him.

The perfect English night in Europe

was completed by Liverpool

who were just too good for Maribor.

After a goalless first half,

Mohamad Salah opened the scoring

with a neat finish off his knee.

And Daniel Sturridge made it

3-0 right at the end

to keep Liverpool top

of their group.

Andy Murray will drop out

of the world's top ten

for the first time in three years

when the new rankings

are released next Monday.

Rafael Nadal will end the year

as world number one.

At the Paris Masters, Jack Sock

ended Kyle Edmund's season.

The British number three served

for the match twice,

but lost two tie-breaks to go down

in three sets.

Some news from Australia,

where England's cricketers

are preparing for their first

Ashes warm-up match.

Steven Finn and Moeen Ali

are injured and won't feature

in the game against the Western

Australia 11 in Perth

which starts on Saturday.

The Houston Astros have won

baseball's World Series

for the first time, beating the LA

Dodgers 5-1 in the deciding game.

Astros' George Springer was awarded

MVP after he became the first player

to hit home runs in four successive

World Series games, helping

them to a 4-3 triumph.

They said they'd won it

for the people of Houston.

Afterwards, the players dedicated