07/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


07/11/2017

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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9am,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

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Welcome to the programme.

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This morning...

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The controversial policy

of stop and search -

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is it an important measure

in tackling knife crime or does it

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just lead to alienation

of the black community?

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Your behaviour, how you work on your

bike, stay still.

I am allowed to

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film. I was given an apology for

what happened and I was invited to

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go out on patrol with their offices

to see how they use stop and search

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powers.

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Our full report in 15

minutes and really keen

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to hear your experiences too.

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What effect did it have on you?

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Plus, a woman seeking

what is thought to be the UK's first

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crowdfunded private rape prosecution

tells this programme she hopes

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to lead the way for those

let down by the courts.

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Emily Hunt has waived her right

to anonymity to talk

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to this programme.

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Her full interview before 11.

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Plus, Theresa May is currently

leading a party engulfed

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by harassment scandals,

with a Foreign Secretary who's just

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made a serious blunder

and an International Development

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Secretary who held talks in Israel

without telling anyone about them.

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We'll look at what all this

means for her leadeship.

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Hello, welcome to the programme.

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We're live until 11am this morning.

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Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning.

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Use the hashtag #Victorialive,

and if you text, you will be charged

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at the standard network rate.

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Tell us if you have been stopped and

searched by the police. What

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happened? Why were you told you were

being searched? Let me know. You can

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send me an e-mail. All of the

details on the screen. Good morning.

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Our top story today...

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Leaked documents

known as the Paradise

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Papers that have been analysed

by the BBC's Panorama programme

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and the International Consortium

of Investigative Journalists reveal

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that Apple moved its profits

to Jersey after a tax loophole

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in Ireland was closed.

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The arrangement isn't illegal

but means the technology giant saves

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billions in corporation tax.

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Apple says it remains

the world's largest taxpayer.

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The files also show Formula 1 world

champion Lewis Hamilton avoided tax

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on a luxury jet he purchased

by importing it to the Isle of Man.

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Our economics correspondent,

Andy Verity, has more.

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COMMENTATOR:

Hamilton

is world champion...

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Five years ago, Lewis Hamilton

bought his own luxury jet

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worth £16.5 million.

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It was something he'd always wanted.

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This is your plane.

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If I get a plane, I'm

going to pimp it out?

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Paint it red, yeah?

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Exactly.

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In January, 2013, the Formula 1

champion landed his new private

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plane at the Isle of Man's airport,

importing it there.

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Isle of Man customs officials

met him at 6:15am to finalise

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the paperwork and sign off on a VAT

refund of £3.3 million.

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I can't believe I have my own plane

still, after all these years.

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Under EU rules, you're only meant

to get a refund if the jet's used

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for commercial purposes,

but the documents suggest Hamilton

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was planning to spend a third

of his flying time on personal use,

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and he's not alone.

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The leaks also show the Isle of Man

paid £790 million in VAT refunds

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to jet-leasing companies.

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If they're using it for private

purposes, the fact that all this

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money is being refunded

is quite shocking.

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You should not be getting VAT back

if it's private usage

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and you're getting VAT back.

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Mr Hamilton's lawyer said

the arrangement was lawful.

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The documents also reveal how

the iPhone maker Apple used

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a British Crown dependency

to keep its tax bill down.

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We pay all the taxes we owe,

every single dollar.

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We not only comply with

the laws, but we comply

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with the spirit of the laws.

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We don't depend on tax gimmicks.

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In 2014, Ireland announced

it would ban companies

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with no tax residency.

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That meant Apple needed a tax

residency for its lucrative

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Irish subsidiaries fast,

so it sent out a questionnaire

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courting tax havens and it chose

Jersey, where its $261 billion pile

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of cash from selling phones

and iPads is now tax resident.

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Apple said the structure hadn't

lowered its taxes and it remained

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the world's largest taxpayer.

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Andy Verity, BBC News.

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In the last few minutes, a response

from the government in Jersey. They

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say, Jersey does not want abusive

tax avoidance schemes and it expects

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financial services providers to

abide by a voluntary code to say

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they will not take on this business.

We are asking for all relevant

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documents to support this action to

be investigated.

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Rebecca is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

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of the rest of the day's news.

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Good morning.

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US President Donald Trump has

been greeted with full

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ceremony in South Korea,

on the latest leg of

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his tour of East Asia.

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His 24-hour visit comes as tensions

remain high on the Korean peninsula.

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The White House says Mr Trump's trip

is intended to demonstrate American

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resolve in the face of nuclear

and missile threats

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from North Korea.

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In the last hour, he told a news

conference they were making a lot of

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progress on the issue of North

Korea.

North Korea is a worldwide

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threat that requires worldwide

action. We call on every responsible

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nation, including China and Russia,

to demand that the North Korean

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regime end its nuclear weapons and

its missile programmes and live in

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peace, as the South Korean people

know so well, it is time to act with

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urgency and with great

determination.

The husband of a

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British woman jailed in Iran has

said the Foreign Secretary, Boris

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Johnson, should correct an error he

made in talking about the case. Mr

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Johnson had told MPs Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been training

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journalists. Her husband, Richard,

says she was on holiday. The legal

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authorities in Iran have threatened

to increase the five-year sentence

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imposed on her.

Keith Doyle reports. Nazanin

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Zaghari-Ratcliffe was arrested with

her baby at Tehran airport last

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year. She was charged with trying to

overthrow the government and

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sentenced to five years in jail. She

has worked for the Thomson Reuters

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foundation and the BBC, but insisted

this trip was for her daughter to

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meet her grandparents and she denies

all the allegations against her.

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Diplomacy has not helped secure her

release and this comment by the

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Foreign Secretary last week has set

her case back, according to her

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family.

She was simply teaching

people journalism, as I understand

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it.

In the last few days, she was

brought back to court and told Mr

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Johnson's comments shed new light on

her case and proved she was not on

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holiday. It is feared Iran may now

increase her sentence.

He needs to

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make a clear statement that she was

not working training journalists.

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She was on holiday. She is innocent

of the association. We have made it

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very clear for a long time, she is

not being held because of anything

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she has done, she is not.

The

Foreign Office says Boris Johnson

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will be in touch with the Iranian

Foreign Minister to ensure his

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comments are not misrepresented.

Victoria will be talking to the

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husband of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

in the next hour.

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The Prime Minister has asked

for the ministerial code of conduct

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to be tightened after an MP

apologised for holding secret

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meetings with Israeli

officials during the summer.

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Priti Patel - the International

Development Secretary -

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apologised for not informing

the Foreign Office and suggesting

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Boris Johnson knew in

advance of the visit.

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Labour said the "shocking" admission

warranted a Cabinet Office inquiry.

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The Prime Minister is calling

for a new culture of respect

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after a string of sexual harassment

claims at Westminster.

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She's been meeting leaders from all

parties to talk about improving

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the complaints procedure.

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Theresa May's described plans

for a new grievance procedure

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for parliamentary staff

as an important step forward.

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The Government is being warned that

foodbanks could struggle to meet

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demand this winter unless urgent

action is taken to improve

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Universal Credit.

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The Trussell Trust -

which is the Uks biggest

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foodbank operator -

says areas where Universal Credit

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has been in place for six months

have seen a 30% increase in demand

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on the previous year.

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The Government says it's

misleading to link foodbank

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usage to any one issue.

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A baby Javan Gibbon has been born in

the wild, the first born to parents

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rescued from the pet trade.

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Victoria Gill reports.

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In this protected rainforest

in Indonesia, conservationists

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introduced me to a very special

family.

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These are Javan gibbons.

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They were released here by a team

who rescued them from the pet trade.

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Now they have settled

into their new home

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and have just had a baby.

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That six-month-old baby is the first

baby Javan gibbon to be born

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in the wild from rehabilitated

and rereleased parents.

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Both parents started their lives

in cages in the pet trade.

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Now they're living wild.

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There are a family.

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But some gibbons are not so lucky.

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They are still sometimes taken

from the wild and sold as pets.

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Researchers say the trade is now

happening more online,

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sometimes on social media.

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We found this video of a gibbon

for sale on Facebook.

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And British researchers

who are studying the pet trade

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showed me videos and pictures posted

by Indonesian pet shops including

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this one of a baby Javan gibbon.

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It's illegal to sell

these endangered animals.

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And gibbons are not the only

type of ape affected.

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These baby orangutans

were also rescued and are now

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being cared for at a sanctuary.

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Apes are very intelligent.

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Being taken from their family

to be someone's pet

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is frightening for them.

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He was found in Jakarta in a bus

in a postal package.

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Someone was posting her?

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Exactly, yes.

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It's horrific that

this is happening.

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When they found her,

she was traumatised.

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It was really difficult

for us to get her going.

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These youngsters are now learning

to live in the trees so they can one

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day go back to the forest.

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Facebook told us they had removed

the video we found and they said

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they wanted to help tackle

the illegal online trade

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in protected wildlife.

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Conservationists here want to fight

the trade too and they want to bring

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more of these gibbons out of cages

and back into the wild

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where they belong.

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That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30.

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Let's get some sport.

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West Ham have a new manager. Why

have they hired David Moyes? They

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are looking for a safe pair of hands

and someone they believe can turn

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around their Premier League season.

They have only won two matches, down

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in the relegation zone, and they

have said in a statement saying they

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have appointed David Moyes, they are

looking for someone with long

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Premier League experience who can

bring a steady head to the job. They

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believe David Moyes is the right man

for the job. Negotiations seem to

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have progressed pretty smoothly

yesterday after they sacked Slaven

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Bilic as their boss, so they have

got the former Everton, Manchester

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United and Sunderland man in on a

two and a half year contract with a

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break clause at the end of the

season. They will be waiting to see

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whether he can turn the season

around. It is thought he will start

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with training this afternoon and he

has already posted a video on West

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Ham's Twitter feed

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talking about how much he is looking

forward to the job.

I am really

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looking forward to meeting the

supporters, being in the stadium

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with

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them, looking forward to seeing them

get right behind the team and my

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team also.

We need the support, we

need everybody with us. It is a big

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job we have in hand now. I am sure

with everybody together, we can get

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the right results between now and

the end of the season. By the looks

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of the video, they may have had

David Moyes in the wings for some

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time before they sacked Slaven

Bilic! Slaven Bilic said he was

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expecting it, no hard feelings. His

friend Ian Wright said he was

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pleased for Slaven Bilic because

just being one game away from losing

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his job for the last however long it

has taken a toll on his mental

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health. Probably the best thing for

him.

As a friend, I know him very

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well, I am actually pleased. Pleased

for him knowing him and what he has

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been going through the last couple

of years especially, especially

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since the new stadium and everything

like that. I think for himself and

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his health, he needs a break from

it. You cannot work like that. You

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are always a couple of games from

the sack. I am just pleased now for

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his sake that he can get a break

from it and get on with it.

West Ham

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fans as well pretty pleased to see

the back Slaven Bilic. But not that

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excited about the arrival of David

Moyes. One online poll, 90% said

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they would prefer to see a much more

progressive manager but it may

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sweeten the pill for them if he

brings in Stuart Pearce as his

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number two. Very popular figure at

West Ham and among the fans as well.

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Perhaps we will see him as part of

David Moyes' team and of course, if

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David Moyes can turn the season

around, perhaps they will feel more

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positive about him.

Stuart Pearce,

he would inspire some of the

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players, I think. Again on Twitter,

loads of West Ham fans saying, how

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is David Moyes the right man when he

took down Sunderland? Other saying

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that no one could have kept

Sunderland up. Cricket, build up to

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the Ashes, tricky for the England

team, another blow?

Another big name

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out of England's ashes squad, the

seam bowler Steven Finn, a tear to

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the cartilage in his knee that he

picked up in training. Travelled out

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to Australia, got the injury, it

just seems extra cruel. He will fly

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UK in the 48 hours and he will see a

specialist to ascertain whether he

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needs an operation. They already

without Ben Stokes after the

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incident outside a Bristol

nightclub. Now Steven Finn missing

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as well. Pessimists owing England

are staring down the barrel of an

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ashes whitewash.

Thank you.

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If you're black - you're eight times

more likely to be stopped

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and searched by a police officer

than any other ethnic group.

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Although it has been used around

300,000 times across England

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and Wales in the past year,

only 17% of those lead

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to an actual arrest.

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For innocent people being stopped

in the street can be

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scary and intimidating

and for some, it can lead

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to distrust of police officers.

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The country's biggest force,

the Metropolitan Police,

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say its vital to reduce knife crime.

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21 teenagers have been

stabbed to death in london

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21 teenagers have been

stabbed to death in London

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alone so far this year.

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Our reporter Noel Phillips

was stopped and searched twice

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within a few months.

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After he complained about his

treatment the Met apologised.

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Here's a film he made about it.

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I'm sure the officer

has explained to you,

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you're being searched

because there's been

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an incident where someone has

produced a flick knife.

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A glimpse into one of

the police's most controversial

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powers, stop and search.

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I think it is down to how

you dress and your race.

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I wouldn't blanket so we are looking

to stop more black people

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or young black men.

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Your behaviour, on your bike...

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I've been stopped and searched twice

in the last few months.

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Stay still.

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We also hear claims about officers

abusing their powers.

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I've seen many police officers stop

people that I would be can consider

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to be based on their racial

prejudices because of

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the colour of their skin.

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I think it is a really useful tool

when properly targeted,

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when properly focused

when there are good grounds.

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But that's not always the case give

people like me who have been

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on the receiving end

of being stopped and searched,

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can often leave you feeling

victimised or, in some cases,

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like me who have been

on the receiving end up

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According to Home Office figures, if

you are black you are eight times

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more likely to be stopped and

searched compared to any other

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ethnic group.

I have explained it to you though.

I

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have been stopped over 125 times in

my lifetime. Ken was stopped at the

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age of 17. He is a youth mentor.

It

made me an angry man. It made me see

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the police as the enemy. I made a

mistake, but it doesn't mean that

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you young men have to make the same

mistake that I have made.

How can

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the police stop and searching?

The

way they can stop the police

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stopping us unnecessarily is by

holding them to account. Just

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because you have got stop and search

it doesn't mean you have done

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anything bad.

The police have a job

to do. There are bad guys out there?

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I accept that stop and search is one

of the tools in the armour of the

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police to be used. Since stop and

search came out of a racist law, it

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is not surprising 40 years on, we

are still getting this

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disproportionality that's still

here.

A quarter of a century ago,

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riots in Brixton led to the end of

the laws which allowed police to

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stop and arrest anyone on suspicion,

but it was widely believed it was

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used by officers to harass young

black men and opinion is divided as

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to whether much has changed since

then.

The amount of times I see

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black young guys going from school

and getting stopped and searched is

0:19:310:19:35

just frustrating.

Barry is 14 and

says his first contact with the

0:19:350:19:39

police was when he was searched on

his way home from school six months

0:19:390:19:43

ago.

I was about to go home. I was

playing with my keys. I was feeling

0:19:430:19:51

bored and I accidentally dropped my

keys near the police station and

0:19:510:19:55

then some police they came over.

They said because at the time I had

0:19:550:20:01

a bag as well. So, they said can you

0:20:010:20:14

They said because at the time I had

a bag as well. So, they said can you

0:20:140:20:14

empty your bag

0:20:140:20:24

I've been stopped and searched once

when I was 12 last year

0:20:240:20:27

I was on my way to training

and I was at the bus stop waiting

0:20:270:20:30

for my bus and two police officers

approached me and they said I match

0:20:300:20:34

the description of something

that had happened.

0:20:340:20:43

I've been stopped a lot of times

when I was young.

0:20:430:20:45

Whilst they've never been

in trouble with the police,

0:20:450:20:48

26-year-old Ahmed has.

0:20:480:20:49

He said he used to be

part of a gang.

0:20:490:20:51

Do you think you were stopped

because of the way you looked

0:20:510:20:54

or maybe because of

what you were wearing?

0:20:540:20:56

The way I looked

on what I was wearing.

0:20:560:20:58

My colour was the main

thing I got stopped for.

0:20:580:21:01

Do you think it's really

just down to that?

0:21:010:21:03

Yes.

0:21:030:21:04

Why?

0:21:040:21:05

I've been stopped over at 70 times

because of my colour.

0:21:050:21:08

Even now I do something good

for the community

0:21:080:21:10

I still get stopped.

0:21:100:21:16

Don't you accept the police

have a job to do and they have

0:21:160:21:19

to try and keep people safe?

0:21:190:21:20

Yes, they have a job

to do and I understand,

0:21:200:21:23

but there's better things to do

than search me.

0:21:230:21:25

What do you think the police can do

to make stop and search more

0:21:250:21:28

effective so people like you,

who aren't criminals,

0:21:280:21:30

who aren't doing bad things,

aren't being stopped?

0:21:300:21:32

Do their job properly.

0:21:320:21:33

Simple as that.

0:21:330:21:34

Do your job properly.

0:21:340:21:35

Know people's rights.

0:21:350:21:36

Do your job properly.

0:21:360:21:41

I also know what it feels like to be

stopped and searched.

0:21:410:21:46

In fact, the most recent is at this

very spot where I'm standing.

0:21:460:21:49

Now I remember four plain-clothed

officers approaching me.

0:21:490:21:52

It was all so sudden,

all so unexpected.

0:21:520:21:56

They asked me what I was doing.

0:21:560:21:59

I pointed in that direction and said

I was on my way home,

0:21:590:22:02

and yet I was still searched.

0:22:020:22:05

There's been drug

dealing on this estate.

0:22:050:22:09

We've seen people stop,

they run away from us.

0:22:090:22:11

We've arrested people for cannabis.

0:22:110:22:14

Your behaviour, how

you was on your bike,...

0:22:140:22:19

Sorry, I'm allowed to film.

0:22:190:22:20

Stay still.

0:22:200:22:24

At that point, the officer

took my phone and stopped me

0:22:240:22:27

recording what was happening

and I was detained and searched.

0:22:270:22:30

We're going to put some gloves on.

0:22:300:22:35

OK.

0:22:350:22:38

The Misuse of Drugs Act power

was used to search me,

0:22:380:22:40

that's despite me never having used

drugs in my entire life.

0:22:400:22:43

Can you stay still?

0:22:430:22:44

I am, I am.

0:22:440:22:47

After challenging the police

on their grounds for searching me

0:22:470:22:50

I was given an apology

for what happened and was invited

0:22:500:22:53

to go out on patrol

with their officers to see how

0:22:530:22:55

they use their stop

and search powers.

0:22:550:22:58

This month in Hackney through stop

and search, we've removed

0:22:580:23:00

eight weapons off people.

0:23:000:23:02

We've actually taken as weapons off

the street and that prevents them

0:23:020:23:05

being used in what could be murders.

0:23:050:23:07

Secondly, if people know

that the police are out there making

0:23:070:23:09

use of stop and search powers,

it acts as a deterrent

0:23:090:23:12

for people to carry weapons.

0:23:120:23:16

Within minutes we receive reports

of a man threatening to stab a woman

0:23:160:23:19

with a knife in a nearby park

in Hackney, North London.

0:23:190:23:22

Received.

0:23:220:23:24

Do we know what sort

of knife it was?

0:23:240:23:29

All we've got is this park,

so we're just going to see if anyone

0:23:290:23:34

that matches the description.

0:23:340:23:36

You're looking for a tall,

slim-build black man

0:23:360:23:38

with a salt-and-pepper moustache.

0:23:380:23:42

Would there be any doubt

in your mind if you do see this man

0:23:420:23:45

whether he needs to be

searched or not?

0:23:450:23:47

It's about having a suspicion.

0:23:470:23:49

So at the moment, with

the information that I've got,

0:23:490:23:51

if we found someone

that closely matches

0:23:510:23:53

that description, yes,

I have a suspicion he might be

0:23:530:23:55

carrying a knife.

0:23:550:23:56

Officers were unable to locate

the man who reportedly had a knife

0:23:560:23:59

but across the UK knife

crime is on the rise,

0:23:590:24:01

especially in London.

0:24:010:24:09

For all the crit sisms about stop

and search, the Met point to the

0:24:090:24:15

statistics, 150 people were stabbed

in the capital and last year that

0:24:150:24:19

figure rose to more than 1200. The

figures I know would suggest that

0:24:190:24:24

the majority of those involved in

knife

0:24:240:24:27

the majority of those involved in

knife crime are young, They are

0:24:270:24:29

almost all men.

There is a high

proportion that are black and ethnic

0:24:290:24:33

minority than not. We look at maybe

some of our activities to target

0:24:330:24:38

gang members and you look at the

make up of those gangs. That could

0:24:380:24:41

be another reason or the

demographics of any particular part

0:24:410:24:44

of London.

The person with a knife

punched the informant in the face.

0:24:440:24:50

So we are going to a call to a shop

down in the south of borrow. There

0:24:500:24:55

is a group of youths in the shop and

the shop owner asked them to move.

0:24:550:25:01

One of them pulled a knife out and

threatened him with it. It is a

0:25:010:25:06

white, 13 to 14-year-old, grey

tracksuit, President Hollande hair.

0:25:060:25:09

So we have got, I think, we have got

three units going to this call and

0:25:090:25:14

CCTV looking. The officer has

explained you are being searched

0:25:140:25:23

because someone produced a flick

knife.

Officers stop a 16-year-old

0:25:230:25:28

who matches the description. But his

15-year-old friend who, is black, is

0:25:280:25:37

being arrested.

Possession of Class

B drugs. We are searching under

0:25:370:25:44

PACE. A flick knife is a weapon, but

we found drugs on this boy. Sew has

0:25:440:25:49

been arrested. The other one hasn't

got a knife and nothing illegal. We

0:25:490:25:53

will get his details and he will be

on his way.

Now these officers are

0:25:530:25:57

keen for us to see that the Met

wants to change the public's

0:25:570:26:01

opinions about stop and search, for

decades the force faced accusations

0:26:010:26:07

of racism, but for there to be

change, there has to be trust. Do

0:26:070:26:10

you think black people have to just

accept the fact that they will be

0:26:100:26:14

stopped and searched because it's an

effective way in tackling knife and

0:26:140:26:19

violent crime?

We are not looking to

blanket search young men. We are

0:26:190:26:24

looking to search gang members and

people who matches the suspect. If

0:26:240:26:31

we see someone that matches that

description, they will be searched.

0:26:310:26:34

As was the case today. That's what

we operate on. We don't generalise

0:26:340:26:39

and we don't blank sercht people

based on their gender or age or

0:26:390:26:43

ethnicity. It is not a case that all

black men have to accept they will

0:26:430:26:48

be searched.

Adam spent time on the

Met Police. He says he witnessed

0:26:480:26:59

officers deliberately searching

young black men.

It permeates the he

0:26:590:27:03

entire police service at every

level. Ultimately, racism within the

0:27:030:27:07

Metropolitan Police is a massive

issue. That infects every, it

0:27:070:27:14

infects the police at every level.

What were some of the things you

0:27:140:27:17

saw?

I have seen many police

officers stop people that what I

0:27:170:27:20

consider would be based on their

racial prejudices because of the

0:27:200:27:24

colour of their skin and even when

we were training to be police

0:27:240:27:27

officers, I remember that we had one

particular trainer who was very open

0:27:270:27:32

in his views. His words were if we

rock up to a call when there is a

0:27:320:27:36

group of eight or nine young plaque

guys wearing hoodies, they are going

0:27:360:27:40

to get spun and turned over. My

response was why? In this scenario

0:27:400:27:46

that you've sort of concocted, there

is no other information other than

0:27:460:27:49

the fact that they are young, black

men, and that they are wearing

0:27:490:27:52

hoodies and that is the only factor

in your decision making in that they

0:27:520:27:56

are going to get searched.

Do I

believe that officers are using

0:27:560:28:02

their pour we are inappropriately?

The majority I would say are not

0:28:020:28:04

doing that. We act based on the

information we receive and the

0:28:040:28:09

individual circumstances we are

responding to.

You accept there is a

0:28:090:28:13

small number of officers who are

misusing their powers and it is as a

0:28:130:28:16

result of that, that's causing

problems between the police and

0:28:160:28:20

certain ethnic communities, isn't it

I am not saying they are misusing

0:28:200:28:23

their powers. There were complaints

that have been made that have been

0:28:230:28:26

investigated and maybe it has been

found that there weren't the grounds

0:28:260:28:29

there for the search, but we are a

massive organisation and some people

0:28:290:28:33

will make mistakes or get it wrong.

In the last year the Metropolitan

0:28:330:28:38

Police carried out nearly 136 stop

and searches. Down from 152,000 the

0:28:380:28:43

year before. The Home Office tells

us stop and search reforms are

0:28:430:28:48

working, but are all police forces

across the country using the tactic

0:28:480:28:52

fairly? Nick is a former

Leicestershire Police chief

0:28:520:28:56

inspector.

I think there are still

police officers across the country

0:28:560:29:00

who are misusing their powers, yes.

It's less than it was three or four,

0:29:000:29:08

four, five years ago. By misuse,

they haven't got the grounds to use

0:29:080:29:13

them or they are using the incorrect

power or they are using, whether it

0:29:130:29:16

is conscious or unconscious bias,

prejudice, discrimination...

Since

0:29:160:29:20

he was a teenager, Nick has been

stopped and searched more than 30

0:29:200:29:24

times whilst off duty. There will be

a lot of people watching who will

0:29:240:29:30

find it staggering that somebody

like yourself, a police inspector,

0:29:300:29:34

is being stopped and searched?

Yes.

And the interesting comparison is if

0:29:340:29:41

I talk to my former colleagues and

ask them how many times they have

0:29:410:29:45

been stopped by the police, some

have never been stopped which I

0:29:450:29:48

always find amazing because I have

been stopped since I was 17 years

0:29:480:29:51

old. So I think it is the

comparison. It's like why is it me?

0:29:510:29:55

And why is it not, you know, former

colleagues, who have a different

0:29:550:29:59

skin colour to me?

For many young

black men like me, our first

0:29:590:30:08

interactions with the police tend to

be to stop and search, which often

0:30:080:30:14

leads to no further action because

of a lack of evidence. The police

0:30:140:30:16

say they make no apology when it

comes to saving lives.

I have seen

0:30:160:30:23

numerous stabbings on the street and

someone has been walking around

0:30:230:30:28

carrying a weapon on that person for

that to happen. If we had stopped

0:30:280:30:32

and searched them before that, it

could have been avoided. This is why

0:30:320:30:37

it is incredibly important and it

does save lives.

0:30:370:30:42

The Home Office told us no one

should be stopped because of their

0:30:420:30:45

race or ethnicity. They will have to

explain disparities in the areas

0:30:450:30:54

because if it is misused, it can

damage policing. Let me read you

0:30:540:31:00

these messages. This is from someone

who has not left their name, I grew

0:31:000:31:04

up wanting to be a detective, but

being mixed race in south London, I

0:31:040:31:09

was not educated about my rights and

I was targeted by the police

0:31:090:31:14

constantly from 14. Understandably

savvy job to do, but when you are

0:31:140:31:17

stopped and searched multiple times

before you have omitted a crime, you

0:31:170:31:23

are put in a box. -- I understand

the police have a job to do. I am a

0:31:230:31:28

changed man now, after committing

crime for several years, but I whiz

0:31:280:31:33

wonder, what if I had never been

searched all of those times? -- I

0:31:330:31:37

always wonder. A metropolitan

officer says, I will not be watching

0:31:370:31:43

your programme again. Stop and

search certainly does not target

0:31:430:31:46

particular groups of people. Another

says, the conclusion of all of the

0:31:460:31:51

black men and boys on your programme

is the Met Police are racially

0:31:510:31:55

profile in black people. Another

says, stopping people based on the

0:31:550:31:59

way they walk, dress, speak and

indeed there ethnicity or skin

0:31:590:32:05

colour is not law enforcement. We

will talk to the father of a teenage

0:32:050:32:11

boy who was fatally stabbed in

London earlier this year outside his

0:32:110:32:13

school. He believes in stop and

search and says it must continue.

0:32:130:32:21

Still to come... Allegations of

harassment at Westminster continue

0:32:210:32:24

to emerge, we ask politicians

whether what is being suggested by

0:32:240:32:28

Mrs May and other party leaders is

going to be enough to tackle it. We

0:32:280:32:32

will be meeting Pride of Britain

Fundraiser of the Year Jake who lost

0:32:320:32:42

his wife to cancer and he is hoping

to realise their dream of having a

0:32:420:32:46

child through a surrogate. Time for

the latest news.

0:32:460:32:56

Leaked documents known

as the Paradise Papers reveal that

0:32:560:32:59

Apple moved its profits to Jersey

after a tax loophole

0:32:590:33:02

in Ireland was closed.

0:33:020:33:05

The arrangement isn't illegal

but means the technology giant saves

0:33:050:33:08

billions in corporation tax.

0:33:080:33:10

Apple says it remains

the world's largest taxpayer.

0:33:100:33:15

The government in Jersey says it

will be investigated.

0:33:150:33:22

The files also show Formula 1 world

champion Lewis Hamilton avoided tax

0:33:220:33:25

on a £16.5 million luxury jet

by importing it into

0:33:250:33:28

the Isle of Man in 2013.

0:33:280:33:29

His lawyers say the

process was lawful.

0:33:290:33:33

Donald Trump has been greeted with

full ceremony in South Korea on the

0:33:330:33:36

latest leg of his tour of East Asia.

His 24-hour visit comes as tensions

0:33:360:33:41

remain high on the Korean

peninsular. Speaking at a news

0:33:410:33:46

conference in Seoul, President Trump

said he believed his policies

0:33:460:33:50

towards North Korea were beginning

to have some impact and he suggested

0:33:500:33:54

the North may be persuaded to

negotiate. The husband of a British

0:33:540:33:59

woman jailed in Iran has said the

Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson,

0:33:590:34:02

should correct an error he made when

he was talking about the case. Mr

0:34:020:34:07

Johnson told MPs that Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been training

0:34:070:34:13

journalists. Her husband, Richard,

says she was on holiday. The legal

0:34:130:34:18

authorities in Iran have threatened

to increase the five-year sentence

0:34:180:34:21

imposed on her. The Prime Minister

has asked for the ministerial code

0:34:210:34:26

of conduct to be tightened after an

MP apologised for holding secret

0:34:260:34:32

meetings with Israeli officials in

the summer. Priti Patel, the

0:34:320:34:38

International Development Secretary,

apologised for not informing the

0:34:380:34:41

Foreign Office and suggesting Boris

Johnson knew in advance of the

0:34:410:34:44

visit. Labour said the shocking

admission warranted a Cabinet Office

0:34:440:34:50

inquiry. That is the summary of the

latest BBC News. Good morning.

0:34:500:34:56

Welcome to the programme. Sport

again

0:34:560:34:57

. David Moyes is the new West Ham

boss. They sacked Slaven Bilic

0:35:010:35:06

yesterday. He has signed a two and a

half year deal. His job is to keep

0:35:060:35:11

West Ham in the Premier League.

Steven Finn is that of England's

0:35:110:35:16

Ashes tour after tearing cartilage

in his knee. The first Test starts

0:35:160:35:21

on the 21st of the month. England

already without Ben Stokes. The race

0:35:210:35:27

that stops a nation, the Melbourne

cup in Australia, incredible finish

0:35:270:35:31

as the 14-1 shot overtook in the

closing sprint. The trainer of the

0:35:310:35:38

winning horse was Joseph O'Brien.

The trainer of the horse he beat to

0:35:380:35:43

the line was his father, the best in

the world. Passing from one

0:35:430:35:47

generation to the next!

0:35:470:35:51

Westminster party leaders have

agreed to introduce a new grievance

0:35:510:35:53

procedure for staff to deal

with misconduct allegations.

0:35:530:35:58

It follows a week which has seen

allegation after allegation

0:35:580:36:00

of sexual harassment and assault

for a number of MPs.

0:36:000:36:02

This wave of accusations and

investigations began last month with

0:36:070:36:12

the suspension of Labour MP Jared

O'Mara over claims he used

0:36:120:36:17

misogynistic and homophobic

comments. Four days later, the

0:36:170:36:20

international Trade Minister, Mark

Garnier, is investigated by the

0:36:200:36:24

Cabinet Office after admitting

asking his secretary to buy sex

0:36:240:36:28

toys. Then came claims in the Times

the man effectively Theresa May's

0:36:280:36:34

deputy, Damian Green, fleetingly

touched a younger woman's me and

0:36:340:36:38

sent her a suggestive text. The

Cabinet Office launches an

0:36:380:36:42

investigation. The first Secretary

of State calls the claims are untrue

0:36:420:36:46

and deeply hurtful. The Labour Party

launch an investigation after a

0:36:460:36:51

well-known activist said she had

been raped at a party event in 2011

0:36:510:36:55

and she was discouraged from

reporting the attack. A day later,

0:36:550:37:01

big-name resignation, Sir Michael

Fallon quits as Defence Secretary

0:37:010:37:03

saying his behaviour in the past may

have fallen short of standards

0:37:030:37:07

expected.

I have behaved in the past

clearly in a way that has

0:37:070:37:13

occasionally been below the

standards we require of the Armed

0:37:130:37:17

Forces. I do not think it is right

for me to go on as Defence

0:37:170:37:21

Secretary, expecting the very

highest standards of our servicemen

0:37:210:37:24

and women and failing to meet them

myself.

Last Thursday evening,

0:37:240:37:29

Labour suspended the MP Kelvin

Hopkins over allegations of

0:37:290:37:33

inappropriate conduct made by a

party activist which he

0:37:330:37:37

categorically denies. Friday, it is

the turn of another Labour MP to

0:37:370:37:42

deny allegations, Clive Lewis is

being investigated over claims he

0:37:420:37:45

groped a woman at the conference.

I

do not as a rule at Labour Party

0:37:450:37:53

conference grope people's bottoms.

It is not how I roll, not what I do.

0:37:530:38:02

Is the person mistaken? Have I given

them a hug and this has been

0:38:020:38:08

misinterpreted? I don't know. All I

know is I would not deliberately do

0:38:080:38:12

that.

Tory MP Charlie Elphicke is

suspended a day later after serious

0:38:120:38:18

allegations are referred to police.

He denies any wrongdoing. Sunday,

0:38:180:38:23

the investigation into Damian Green

widens. Pornography was found on one

0:38:230:38:27

of his parliamentary computers in

2008. He describes the claims as

0:38:270:38:32

false. Conservative MP then resigns

as government whip after being

0:38:320:38:39

accused of making an unwanted path

at a former Olympic rower and

0:38:390:38:44

Conservative activists Alex story in

2001. Three Tory MPs are referred to

0:38:440:38:53

the party's disciplinary committee

after allegations about their

0:38:530:38:55

conduct. Daniel Potter and Daniel

Kochanski deny wrongdoing. Stephen

0:38:550:39:01

Crabb admits saying some pretty

outrageous things to a woman after

0:39:010:39:05

interviewing her for a job.

Yesterday another claim, the

0:39:050:39:10

Conservative Party activist tells

this programme she was raped by

0:39:100:39:13

someone more senior in the party but

that her complaints to the House of

0:39:130:39:17

Commons authorities were completely

ignored.

I remember the attack

0:39:170:39:22

during the attack, I remember the

room disappearing around me and

0:39:220:39:28

thinking I was going to die. When he

left the next day, I was at the

0:39:280:39:33

police station within an hour.

0:39:330:39:39

We can speak now to Ian Blackford,

leader of the SNP in the House

0:39:390:39:43

of Commons in Westminster

who was at the meeting

0:39:430:39:45

yesterday, the Labour

MP, Catherine West,

0:39:450:39:53

who was elected

in 2015, and Alistair Carmichael,

0:39:530:39:55

the Liberal Democrat Chief Whip.

0:39:550:39:58

He is on his way to the Millbank

Studios. Ian Blackford, do you think

0:39:580:40:02

the outcome of the meeting was

enough?

We have agreed we will set

0:40:020:40:08

up a working group with that aim we

have a grievance procedures in place

0:40:080:40:11

by the beginning of next year, the

outline of what will be proposed has

0:40:110:40:15

to come together by the 1st of

December. I think it is important we

0:40:150:40:25

work on a cross-party basis. We

should be under no doubt what the

0:40:250:40:29

public expects, to show leadership.

How does having a grievance

0:40:290:40:35

procedure finally in place stopped

MPs behaving so appallingly?

We have

0:40:350:40:41

to set out zero tolerance of bad

behaviour, bad sexual behaviour,

0:40:410:40:44

bullion. We have to see it as a

watershed moment, leadership has to

0:40:440:40:49

be shown across the political

parties and we have to say anybody

0:40:490:40:52

behaving unacceptably, they will pay

a price, there will be consequences.

0:40:520:40:58

Anyone that comes across in

constituency offices, they will know

0:40:580:41:04

they will be protected, that they

will be encouraged to come forward

0:41:040:41:07

with any allegations of bad

behaviour and this will be taken

0:41:070:41:11

seriously. This is our one chance to

show we are serious about this, not

0:41:110:41:16

just about Parliament, it is about

behaviour right through society and

0:41:160:41:20

we have to take leadership on this

and will betide anybody that plays

0:41:200:41:23

with that. All political parties

have to accept responsibility.

Are

0:41:230:41:29

you satisfied with the grievance

procedure outcome?

We are in the

0:41:290:41:33

foothills because we have to then

have the working party looking at

0:41:330:41:36

the detail but it is fantastic to

see the party leaders around a table

0:41:360:41:42

speaking to each other face-to-face

rather than across the floor of the

0:41:420:41:46

Commons and also this is so shocking

and everybody is shocked by it,

0:41:460:41:50

right from the journalists who have

been subject to it from time to

0:41:500:41:54

time, right through to very serious

sexual assault allegations which are

0:41:540:41:58

being looked at by

0:41:580:42:09

the police.

Are you confident that

people who work on the parliamentary

0:42:100:42:12

estate, whether they be researchers,

activists, lobbyists, journalists,

0:42:120:42:14

MPs, Cabinet ministers, how may step

up and behave normally, properly,

0:42:140:42:16

and with respect?

They have to.

Are

you confident they can?

Yes. People

0:42:160:42:24

have to...

Criminal activity, they

will lose their seats. It is not

0:42:240:42:29

criminal activity, just grim

behaviour.

We must make it

0:42:290:42:33

absolutely clear society has to

change, the kind of issues that have

0:42:330:42:36

come to light not acceptable. This

is the opportunity for politicians

0:42:360:42:41

to take a lead and show there has to

be respect. One of the things that

0:42:410:42:45

has to come out of this is training,

for 4-star.

What do you mean,

0:42:450:42:52

consent classes?

-- 4-star. Consent

classes.

Do you agree?

So many

0:42:520:42:59

people come into Parliament from

many different walks of life, many

0:42:590:43:02

have never employed anybody, others

are HR managers, a huge gap between

0:43:020:43:07

some people coming in...

Wherever

you have come from into Parliament,

0:43:070:43:12

you know not to pinch someone's

backside, do you know not to send

0:43:120:43:17

them the sexually explicit text when

they have applied for a job,

0:43:170:43:21

everybody knows that.

You would have

thought so, but unfortunately, some

0:43:210:43:25

have not lived by that code.

Alistair Carmichael has just joined

0:43:250:43:28

us. The Chief Whip for the Liberal

Democrats. Good morning. Yesterday

0:43:280:43:35

your party suspended an MP and

referred allegations to the police.

0:43:350:43:39

An activist claimed Lib Dem HQ

hushed up the rape complaint made

0:43:390:43:44

against a party activist. What is

this culture of wanting to push

0:43:440:43:48

things up?

You said we had suspended

a Member of Parliament yesterday,

0:43:480:43:52

that is not it. The case you are

referring to, an allegation of a

0:43:520:43:59

rape was made and that was passed on

to the police. I do not think it is

0:43:590:44:03

fair to characterise that as some

sort of cover-up.

Right, OK. There

0:44:030:44:08

is a desire, you have to

acknowledge... As the Chief Whip,

0:44:080:44:12

there was a desire, not just the

Chief Whip of the Lib Dems, but

0:44:120:44:18

there is a desire to protect the

party rather than show duty of care

0:44:180:44:23

to individuals?

No, there is no

doubt this has been... That has

0:44:230:44:30

perhaps been the way business has

been done in the House of Commons in

0:44:300:44:33

the past and we have all in our

different parties had instances of

0:44:330:44:38

cases where it could have been done

better. I think the message that

0:44:380:44:43

came very clearly from yesterday's

meeting is that what ever has been

0:44:430:44:47

done in the past, whatever the

inadequacies of that, we have all

0:44:470:44:51

learned at different times, in my

party, very robust procedures in

0:44:510:44:54

case a couple of years ago, that the

culture has changed and people who

0:44:540:44:59

have suffered this treatment in the

past or might suffer it now, they

0:44:590:45:05

should feel able to come forward and

report it in the confidence the

0:45:050:45:09

investigation will be proper and

robust.

Does that mean you are

0:45:090:45:12

saying that you do not have

information about the misdemeanours

0:45:120:45:19

of MPs that you are keeping to

yourself in order to put pressure on

0:45:190:45:23

them at some point to vote a

particular way on an issue?

0:45:230:45:26

Blackmail?

Absolutely not. There has

been no time where I have ever used

0:45:260:45:34

information I have held about

somebody's misdemeanours in order to

0:45:340:45:37

get them to behave in a certain way.

That has not been the way we have

0:45:370:45:41

done business.

0:45:410:45:45

If somebody came to you and

suggested that someone senior in the

0:45:450:45:50

Liberal Democrats had sexually

harassed them. What would you do

0:45:500:45:53

with that information?

There is a

process to be gone through here. In

0:45:530:45:57

the Liberal Democrats we have a

pastoral care officer whose job it

0:45:570:46:01

is to take complaints like that to

deal with them, either within the

0:46:010:46:05

party or if it involves a case of

serious criminal behaviour, they

0:46:050:46:10

have to help that person make

complaint to the person.

0:46:100:46:14

-- police.

The individual should probably be

0:46:140:46:20

suspended in the meantime.

Yes. If

they are a party member, they should

0:46:200:46:29

be suspended.

There seems to be an

issue regarding alcohol according to

0:46:290:46:35

a come we spoke to who said she had

seen women plied with drink in the

0:46:350:46:40

Parliamentary bars and women were

treated as meat. Is that fair?

Well,

0:46:400:46:44

I think some of the bars should

close. We should have strangers

0:46:440:46:48

where you can invite a um can have

constituents in for a friendly pint

0:46:480:46:53

and it is well managed that bar, but

some of the others, like the sports

0:46:530:46:58

and social, why people can't go out

of Parliament and have their drink

0:46:580:47:01

out there and then it is not a

Parliamentary problem.

So just push

0:47:010:47:04

it somewhere else?

Once you are out

there, you have police. You have

0:47:040:47:08

licensing regulations and so on. At

the moment...

How many bars are

0:47:080:47:14

theren ot Parliamentary estate?

There are a number of bars. We have

0:47:140:47:16

to clean up our act.

Do you agree,

close them all, apart from one?

0:47:160:47:21

There is an issue with sports and

social. I don't like sports and

0:47:210:47:23

social. I never go there. The

atmosphere about the place is

0:47:230:47:27

something I would question.

It is

aggressive.

Sorry, it is aggressive?

0:47:270:47:31

You walk in and it feels like an old

boozer. It is not a workplace. How

0:47:310:47:36

many people is there a bar in the

BBC where your people can pop down

0:47:360:47:39

for a drink after this show, have a

drink and come back to work?

It is

0:47:390:47:45

not modern. Some of our audience say

take away the subsidy.

I don't think

0:47:450:47:53

any Parliamentarian wants to be in a

environment where it is being

0:47:530:47:59

subsidised.

Change it then. Don't

just make the point, do something.

0:47:590:48:04

That's what we did yesterday by

setting up this working group. We

0:48:040:48:08

need to move ahead quickly and we

need to make sure that we can be a

0:48:080:48:12

modern people that treats people

with respect. It has to be

0:48:120:48:17

protecting the rights of all our

members. This is the opportunity to

0:48:170:48:20

get this right and if we don't do

harks the public will judge us and

0:48:200:48:23

judge us rightly on the failure to

act in an appropriate manner. With

0:48:230:48:27

he need to make sure that people are

protected and we take a lead through

0:48:270:48:33

society.

I'm told there is a sign

outside the sports bar, what happens

0:48:330:48:40

here stays here. Violators will be

shot.

This goes back to the culture.

0:48:400:48:47

We want to have from what I can see

the party leaders sitting around the

0:48:470:48:52

table which they haven't done on

Northern Ireland or Brexit or any of

0:48:520:48:55

the other things which are

happening, they are doing it because

0:48:550:48:57

we have to take responsibility now.

And we have to change the culture.

0:48:570:48:59

OK. Thank you all. Thank you very

much. Catherine, Ian, and Allister.

0:48:590:49:10

Thank you.

0:49:100:49:13

Coming up:

0:49:130:49:14

We'll be talking to two people

who receive Universal Credit

0:49:140:49:17

as the Government is being warned

that foodbanks could struggle

0:49:170:49:19

to meet demand this winter

unless urgent action is taken.

0:49:190:49:25

A husband who lost his wife

to cancer is hoping to realise

0:49:260:49:30

their dream of having a child

through a surrogate.

0:49:300:49:33

Emmy Coates died in June, just 18

months after she'd been diagnosed

0:49:330:49:36

with thyroid cancer.

0:49:360:49:39

She was 31.

0:49:390:49:45

She'd blogged about her dream

of becoming a mum and said husband

0:49:450:49:49

Jake would be the

"best dad in the world".

0:49:490:49:51

They'd discovered

they were pregnant with a surrogate

0:49:510:49:53

just weeks before her death.

0:49:530:49:54

Together, Emmy and Jake had

raised over £140,000

0:49:540:50:00

for the Royal Marsden Hospital

in London, by cycling across Europe

0:50:000:50:09

and tonight, on ITV,

you'll be able to see Jake pick

0:50:090:50:11

up his Daily Mirror Pride

of Britain Award for

0:50:110:50:13

Fundraiser of the Year.

0:50:130:50:15

She will kill me for saying it, but

there is one nurse we named our

0:50:150:50:22

tandem after called Tara Hurly who

an angel from heaven who has given

0:50:220:50:27

me sop much strength and she gave

Emmy so many smiles and so much

0:50:270:50:33

laughter and the Royal Marsden

Hospital is the most incredible

0:50:330:50:35

place and I feel very honoured...

APPLAUSE

0:50:350:50:46

Well, fi guess they just don't make

gentlemen like you anymore. No, I

0:50:460:50:50

think they broke the mould when they

made him. I just want to

0:50:500:50:55

congratulate you because you really,

you really, really, really, deserve

0:50:550:50:59

this award.

APPLAUSE

0:50:590:51:07

Thank you, Amanda. Thank you, Joan

and congratulations once again.

0:51:070:51:15

APPLAUSE

To Emmy and Jake Coates.

0:51:150:51:29

APPLAUSE

0:51:320:51:32

And Jake joins us now.

0:51:320:51:37

How are you doing?

I was getting

emotional hearing you talk about it.

0:51:370:51:42

It is quite close sometimes.

Of

course. I'm going to ask you about

0:51:420:51:47

Emmy and tell our audience when you

first met her?

We met when we were

0:51:470:51:52

11 years old. We met 24 days to the

day we got marred kid and we went to

0:51:520:51:59

secondary school in Hereford

Cathedral.

When you were 13 you

0:51:590:52:01

said, you said that she was your

lobster. What did you mean?

That

0:52:010:52:08

refers to a wonderful Friends

episode where Phoebe remarks on Ross

0:52:080:52:13

and Rachel as being lobsters and

apparently lobsters mate for life.

0:52:130:52:17

So my point to that was that, you

know, we were always kind of meant

0:52:170:52:21

to be and we would always be

together.

0:52:210:52:25

I mean you did split up, but then

you got back together a decade

0:52:250:52:29

later. And you knew you were

planning on proposing when you

0:52:290:52:33

discovered a lump in her neck, is

that right?

Yes. So, we really

0:52:330:52:37

hadn't been back in touch very long.

We got back in touch in October

0:52:370:52:43

2015, over social media. I was in

Australia working as a doctor. I

0:52:430:52:47

came back to visit at Christmas and

she came out in the February half

0:52:470:52:51

term and over that time, I was so

certain that this was exactly what I

0:52:510:52:54

wanted and you know, I thought it

would be the best thing, that I

0:52:540:52:58

started planning the proposal,

buying the ring and I planned to

0:52:580:53:02

propose in March, in the Philippines

on holiday, a wonderful holiday, but

0:53:020:53:05

when she came out in February, I

have got this muscle in my neck

0:53:050:53:11

would you mind giving me a massage

and it was just straightaway, she

0:53:110:53:16

had these very rubbery kind of bunch

of grape limpth nodes innier neck,

0:53:160:53:22

you are taught at med school, they

are a sign of badness. It doesn't

0:53:220:53:29

mean thyroid cancer, but it often

means something nasty.

You were

0:53:290:53:37

worried straightaway. Your concerns

were right. How shocking was it for

0:53:370:53:41

you both to receive that news?

Yeah,

that was pretty awful. I sent, I

0:53:410:53:46

said go, back have a neck biopsy.

She went back and they rushed it and

0:53:460:53:51

did it within a couple of weeks. The

results came back but because I knew

0:53:510:53:57

it had spread to the limpth nodes, I

knew it was bad. I flew back the

0:53:570:54:04

moment she got the diagnosis and it

was only, it was very quick from

0:54:040:54:07

then on really. She had been waiting

a long time. She had been having

0:54:070:54:10

symptom for a long time, almost two

years, but once we got that, jumped

0:54:100:54:14

that hurdle, everything just kind of

fell like dominoes and we were

0:54:140:54:18

referred to the Royal Marsden very

quickly and I can't even begin

0:54:180:54:23

actually, it breaks my heart now

thinking about those days when she

0:54:230:54:26

was diagnosed because it was a

really tough time.

0:54:260:54:29

One of the things that stands out

and there are many about Emmy is

0:54:290:54:32

that she, it seemed like she wanted

to confront it.

Yes.

And with the

0:54:320:54:36

time that was left, get on with it

and live life?

Yeah. I think that

0:54:360:54:40

was it. I think that's the thing,

that's garnered the most support

0:54:400:54:46

from people and the public, one

thing was raising awareness of cans

0:54:460:54:50

nears young people, and raising

money for an amazing place like the

0:54:500:54:53

royal marred den, but she ended up

kind of with her blog and with her

0:54:530:55:00

outlook in life, her attitude to the

cancer, this overwhelming adversity

0:55:000:55:04

was so incredible. I think she

pulled everybody else with her,

0:55:040:55:07

along with her, she certainly pulled

me along. She gave me the confidence

0:55:070:55:11

to keep going and I think much of

the 18 months when she was ill, we

0:55:110:55:15

lived in denial because I think we

both thought she would have a lot

0:55:150:55:19

longer really. They gave her a 10%

prognosis of living five years. It

0:55:190:55:24

wasn't a question that she was going

to be that 5%, she had the gumption

0:55:240:55:31

and belief.

You did this magnificent

cycle ride to raise all this money.

0:55:310:55:35

But that, that must have been really

challenging at times particularly

0:55:350:55:39

for her, obviously?

Yeah. You

wouldn't have known it though.

0:55:390:55:42

Really.

She was so strong. She was

very gifted athlete anyway. But she,

0:55:420:55:49

I mean, on a tandem, you are quite

close to each other and she had her

0:55:490:55:53

head or face about a foot away from

my bum more about four weeks.

She

0:55:530:55:57

must have loved it.

Yeah, but you

know, we had battling winds and rain

0:55:570:56:03

the whole time and she didn't

complain once. She was amazing.

Did

0:56:030:56:10

fund-raising help both of you?

Yeah.

Undoubtedly. Over that period of

0:56:100:56:16

time we gave ourselves lots of

things to focus on. We got married.

0:56:160:56:19

It was a huge thing. Having a kind

of small steps, thinking about

0:56:190:56:23

things a few months away, maybe a

holiday or something to tick off the

0:56:230:56:27

bucket list and the fund-raising was

that. The block and the

0:56:270:56:31

fund-raising, that whole kind of

thing that grew was something that

0:56:310:56:35

really gave us both a lot of

strength and the fund raiding, when

0:56:350:56:38

you see it ticking over and so many

people also fund raiding on you are

0:56:380:56:43

behalf. This is thanks to everybody

really who has done so much for us.

0:56:430:56:47

So that gave her so much positive

energy.

0:56:470:56:52

Before Emmy died, you made this

incredible decision to try and have

0:56:520:56:57

a baby using the eggs that she had

frozen before chemotherapy had begun

0:56:570:57:02

and using a surrogate and actually

before she died, the surrogate was

0:57:020:57:06

pregnant?

Yes, that's right. So,

about two weeks before she passed

0:57:060:57:11

away, when Emmy was kind of last

fully with us, compus mentus, we had

0:57:110:57:18

a positive pregnancy test, we had

three. Liz came to our house and it

0:57:180:57:21

was a wonderful day. Emmy, we were

so rushed off our feet over the

0:57:210:57:27

previous weeks, she had nothing

left. So by the time we had the

0:57:270:57:31

pregnancy test back positive, it was

only half an hour, she was falling

0:57:310:57:34

asleep. She was fully empty. She had

nothing left. And then

0:57:340:57:39

unfortunately, I didn't see it

coming. I mean in retrospect having

0:57:390:57:42

looked at her and how frail she had

become, I should have, but she just

0:57:420:57:46

had become very, very weak and she,

it had just come after a course of

0:57:460:57:51

radiotherapy and afterwards you get

tired, but she didn't quite wake up

0:57:510:57:54

this time and then rushed her back

to hospital. There was nothing

0:57:540:57:59

acutely different, it was just

progression and we decided, I

0:57:590:58:02

decided to get her home. She wanted

to go home and I didn't want her

0:58:020:58:05

dying in hospital. So we took her

home.

It is so upsetting. But she

0:58:050:58:10

knew the surrogate was pregnant.

That's right. That was huge. That

0:58:100:58:14

was massive for her.

But sadly the

pregnancy was ectopic and the baby

0:58:140:58:20

lost, but you are going to try

again.

That's right. That was a

0:58:200:58:25

really tough time. Afterwards,

feeling numb and not knowing what

0:58:250:58:28

was going on, Liz the surrogate who

is just an angle said she had an

0:58:280:58:33

ectopic and we spent a couple of

days in hospital dealing with that,

0:58:330:58:36

but it was never a question in my

mind that I would do it again and

0:58:360:58:39

Liz as well has been amazing. She

has come forward and said, I would

0:58:390:58:42

love to do this again for you.

You told your story to the Daily

0:58:420:58:47

Mirror. I wonder what you think

about the future.

It's, I guess, so

0:58:470:58:54

uncertain. I don't want to breathe

too heavily because I so desperately

0:58:540:58:59

want this to happen. You are in the

lap of the gods as it were, if this

0:58:590:59:04

can happen, it would be the most

amazing thing. To have a little part

0:59:040:59:08

of Emmy, it would mean everything

because at times it has been really

0:59:080:59:11

dark and having something to kind of

focus on the future would be

0:59:110:59:15

massive. I know how much Emmy wanted

it and I want it for her.

Thank you

0:59:150:59:19

very much.

Thank you.

Thank you,

Jake. Thank you for coming in.

0:59:190:59:25

Well done on the award.

Thank you

very much.

0:59:250:59:31

Emmy's blog, people can go to it and

see her writing?

Absolutely. This is

0:59:310:59:36

what I want to try and do, keep the

message alive. She had a motto which

0:59:360:59:41

was smile, love and be kind. It was

really simple, but people latched on

0:59:410:59:47

to it.

Say it again.

Smile, love and

be kind. People re-evaluated their

0:59:470:59:53

own lives, not just their health,

what can they do differently, if she

0:59:530:59:57

can do it facing what she faced what

excuse do we have to worry and kind

0:59:571:00:03

of feel sorry for ourselves, you

know. It is a massive privilege to

1:00:031:00:09

be able to take that message on and

keep that message alive.

Thank you

1:00:091:00:13

very much, Jake. Thank you for

telling us about Emmy.

1:00:131:00:17

You can watch the Pride of Britain

Awards tonight at 8pm on ITV.

1:00:171:00:21

Let's get the latest weather update.

1:00:211:00:26

That has not been the way we have

done business.

1:00:261:00:30

Heavy rain this morning in

Queensbury not too far from

1:00:301:00:33

Edinburgh, it has been wet. Also

went across Cumbria, a band of rain

1:00:331:00:38

sinking south. Behind it, turning

colder. Temperatures at the moment

1:00:381:00:45

in Belfast, six. We started off with

higher values but as the cold front

1:00:451:00:49

went through, the temperature

dropped. Temperatures holding true

1:00:491:00:55

around the band of rain. Some of the

rain has been heavy, a lot of

1:00:551:01:00

surface water and spray on the

roads. The band will continue to

1:01:001:01:05

journey slowly south-east through

the day. Ahead of it, quite a lot of

1:01:051:01:11

cloud, showers, blustery. Behind it,

cloud but brightening up with

1:01:111:01:16

sunshine and showers across Scotland

and Northern Ireland. Into the

1:01:161:01:19

afternoon, we still will have the

band of rain across Yorkshire,

1:01:191:01:25

Lincolnshire, Derbyshire, the

Midlands, ahead of it, still a fair

1:01:251:01:28

bit of cloud, showers, and

temperatures still in double

1:01:281:01:31

figures. Around the band, it will be

blustery, gusty winds along the

1:01:311:01:36

south coast, and behind the band,

brighter spells, some sunshine and a

1:01:361:01:42

few showers. This afternoon across

much of Wales, showers, sunshine

1:01:421:01:46

coming out across western parts of

Wales. Northern Ireland, a lot of

1:01:461:01:51

sunshine with some showers in the

West. Some of those are likely to be

1:01:511:01:56

heavy and possibly thundery. As they

are across western parts of

1:01:561:01:59

Scotland. The rest of Scotland, dry

afternoon with lengthy sunny spells.

1:01:591:02:05

Temperature wise, in Manchester,

about 11 degrees. As the band of

1:02:051:02:13

rain goes through, we are looking at

eight this afternoon. This evening

1:02:131:02:17

and overnight, the band of rain

continues to drift south-east as a

1:02:171:02:21

weakening feature. Behind it,

clearing skies, cold night. In rural

1:02:211:02:30

areas, it will be lower, so we could

be looking at temperatures well

1:02:301:02:34

below freezing for some with a touch

of frost and patchy mist and fog.

1:02:341:02:39

Tomorrow, the remnants of today's

front slowly clearing, high pressure

1:02:391:02:43

still with us, and other weather

front coming in from the West

1:02:431:02:46

introducing wet and windy conditions

again with gales in the north-west

1:02:461:02:52

but a lot of dry and sunny weather.

In the south-east, a bit more cloud

1:02:521:02:57

and temperatures here up to 11.

1:02:571:03:07

Hello it's Tuesday, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:03:071:03:12

This morning...

1:03:121:03:13

the controversial policy

of stop and search -

1:03:131:03:15

is it an important measure

in tackling knife crime or does it

1:03:151:03:18

just lead to alienation

of the black community?

1:03:181:03:19

I've been stopped over 70 times

because of my colour.

1:03:191:03:22

Even now I do something good

for the community, I get stopped.

1:03:221:03:25

Our report in the next

hour and really keen

1:03:251:03:27

to hear your experiences too.

1:03:271:03:31

We will speak to someone who's son

was stabbed to death. Plus, a woman

1:03:311:03:38

seeking a

1:03:381:03:41

was stabbed to death. Plus, a woman

seeking a private rain prosecution

1:03:411:03:43

tells this programme she hopes to

lead the way for those let down by

1:03:431:03:46

the courts.

When I worked up, I had

never seen him before and I was on a

1:03:461:03:51

hotel bed. I woke up cold, with a

sheet on me that had a really

1:03:511:03:58

particular texture to it and I knew

it wasn't mine.

Did you have any

1:03:581:04:04

clothes on?

No, I was completely

naked. You can hear her interview

1:04:041:04:11

before 11. And foodbanks could

struggle to meet demand this winter

1:04:111:04:16

unless urgent action is taken to

improve Universal Credit. We will

1:04:161:04:19

hear from those affected.

1:04:191:04:23

The latest news now with Rebecca.

Leaked documents analysed by the

1:04:311:04:38

BBC's Panorama and the international

consortium of investigative

1:04:381:04:41

journalists reveal Apple moved

profits to Jersey after a tax

1:04:411:04:47

loophole in Ireland was close. The

arrangement isn't illegal, but it

1:04:471:04:53

means the technology giant saves

billions in corporation tax. Apple

1:04:531:04:56

says it remains the world's largest

taxpayer. The files also showed

1:04:561:05:01

Formula 1 world champion Lewis

Hamilton avoided tax on a luxury jet

1:05:011:05:05

he bought by importing it to the

Isle of Man. Our economics

1:05:051:05:12

correspondent has more.

1:05:121:05:22

COMMENTATOR:

Hamilton

is world champion...

1:05:221:05:24

Five years ago, Lewis Hamilton

bought his own luxury jet

1:05:241:05:26

worth £16.5 million.

1:05:261:05:27

It was something he'd always wanted.

1:05:271:05:28

This is your plane.

1:05:281:05:29

If I get a plane, I'm

going to pimp it out?

1:05:291:05:32

Paint it red, yeah?

1:05:321:05:33

Exactly.

1:05:331:05:34

In January, 2013, the Formula 1

champion landed his new private

1:05:341:05:37

plane at the Isle of Man's airport,

importing it there.

1:05:371:05:39

Isle of Man customs officials

met him at 6:15am to finalise

1:05:391:05:42

the paperwork and sign off on a VAT

refund of £3.3 million.

1:05:421:05:46

I can't believe I have my own plane

still, after all these years.

1:05:461:05:49

Under EU rules, you're only meant

to get a refund if the jet's used

1:05:491:05:53

for commercial purposes,

but the documents suggest Hamilton

1:05:531:05:56

was planning to spend a third

of his flying time on personal use,

1:05:561:06:00

and he's not alone.

1:06:001:06:03

The leaks also show the Isle of Man

paid £790 million in VAT refunds

1:06:031:06:07

to jet-leasing companies.

1:06:071:06:09

If they're using it for private

purposes, the fact that all this

1:06:091:06:12

money is being refunded

is quite shocking.

1:06:121:06:14

You should not be getting VAT back

if it's private usage

1:06:141:06:17

and you're getting VAT back.

1:06:171:06:20

Mr Hamilton's lawyer said

the arrangement was lawful.

1:06:201:06:23

The documents also reveal how

the iPhone maker Apple used

1:06:231:06:29

a British Crown dependency

to keep its tax bill down.

1:06:291:06:32

We pay all the taxes we owe,

every single dollar.

1:06:321:06:35

We not only comply with

the laws, but we comply

1:06:351:06:39

with the spirit of the laws.

1:06:391:06:40

We don't depend on tax gimmicks.

1:06:401:06:44

In 2014, Ireland announced

it would ban companies

1:06:441:06:46

with no tax residency.

1:06:461:06:51

That meant Apple needed a tax

residency for its lucrative

1:06:511:06:56

Irish subsidiaries fast,

so it sent out a questionnaire

1:06:561:07:03

courting tax havens and it chose

Jersey, where its $261 billion pile

1:07:031:07:08

of cash from selling phones

and iPads is now tax resident.

1:07:081:07:11

Apple said the structure hadn't

lowered its taxes and it remained

1:07:111:07:13

the world's largest taxpayer.

1:07:131:07:14

Andy Verity, BBC News.

1:07:141:07:19

The Jersey government have

responded. In a statement, they say,

1:07:191:07:24

Jersey does not want abusive tax

avoidance schemes operating in the

1:07:241:07:29

island and it expects financial

service providers to abide by a

1:07:291:07:32

voluntary code to say they will not

take on this kind of business. The

1:07:321:07:36

allegations will be investigated and

we are asking the ICI J to provide

1:07:361:07:41

relevant documents to support this

action. The husband of a British

1:07:411:07:46

Iranian woman jailed in Iran has

urged the Foreign Secretary, Boris

1:07:461:07:52

Johnson, to attract in Parliament

and error he made in talking about

1:07:521:07:54

the case. Mr Johnson told MPs

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been

1:07:541:08:00

training journalists. Her husband,

Richard, said she was on holiday.

1:08:001:08:04

The legal authorities in Iran have

threatened to increase the five-year

1:08:041:08:08

sentence imposed on her. Victoria

will be talking to Richard, the

1:08:081:08:14

husband of the British woman jailed

in Iran, at 10:25am. The Prime

1:08:141:08:19

Minister has asked for the

ministerial code of conduct to be

1:08:191:08:22

tightened after an MP apologised for

holding secret meetings with Israeli

1:08:221:08:27

officials in the summer.

1:08:271:08:37

Priti Patel - the International

Development Secretary -

1:08:381:08:40

apologised for not informing

the Foreign Office and suggesting

1:08:401:08:42

Boris Johnson knew in

advance of the visit.

1:08:421:08:44

Labour said the "shocking" admission

warranted a Cabinet Office inquiry.

1:08:441:08:46

US President Donald Trump has

been greeted with full

1:08:461:08:48

ceremony in South Korea,

on the latest leg of

1:08:481:08:50

his tour of East Asia.

1:08:501:08:52

His 24-hour visit comes as tensions

remain high on the Korean peninsula.

1:08:521:08:56

President Trump has said he is

hopeful North Korea can be persuaded

1:08:561:09:01

to enter into negotiations but he

also warned the north America was

1:09:011:09:05

prepared to use its military might

to defend itself against aggression,

1:09:051:09:10

if it had to.

North Korea is a

worldwide threat that requires

1:09:101:09:16

worldwide action. We call on every

responsible nation, including China

1:09:161:09:22

and Russia, to demand that the North

Korean regime end its nuclear

1:09:221:09:27

weapons and its missile programmes

and live in peace. As the South

1:09:271:09:33

Korean people know so well, it is

time to act with urgency and with

1:09:331:09:38

great determination.

That is a

summary of the latest BBC News. More

1:09:381:09:45

at 10:30am. An e-mail from Mark, it

is politically correct programmes

1:09:451:09:50

like yours which want everyone to

think they are a victim which has

1:09:501:09:53

directly led to an increase in knife

attacks and acid attacks. I would

1:09:531:09:58

rather my 16-year-old son be stopped

and searched every day than the --

1:09:581:10:06

and be safe. Leftist propaganda

shows like yours are making it more

1:10:061:10:11

difficult for the police. An

ex-police officer says they have had

1:10:111:10:16

16 years experience, many serious

issues with the Met Police, one of

1:10:161:10:19

which is trust. There is no trust.

Police officers do not trust other

1:10:191:10:24

police officers so how can members

of the public reasonably trust them?

1:10:241:10:28

Keep those coming in, a further

conversation about stop and search

1:10:281:10:32

after 10:30am. Send me an e-mail,

Facebook, WhatsApp, and if you are

1:10:321:10:37

texting, you will be charged. Sport.

1:10:371:10:48

David -- David Moyes is the new

manager. Stuart Pearce in line to

1:10:491:10:55

come in as his number two could

placate the fans. West Ham have

1:10:551:10:59

posted a video of David Moyes on

social media this morning saying how

1:10:591:11:02

much he is looking forward to the

job.

I'm really looking forward to

1:11:021:11:06

meeting the supporters, being in the

stadium with them, looking forward

1:11:061:11:09

to seeing them getting right behind

the team.

1:11:091:11:18

Confirmation of that, the

appointment of David Moyes this

1:11:241:11:26

morning. England's preparation for

the Ashes has not been perfect,

1:11:261:11:31

without the all-rounder Ben Stokes

after the incident outside a Bristol

1:11:311:11:35

nightclub, and Steven Finn was

brought in to replace Ben Stokes but

1:11:351:11:38

now they have lost him. He is flying

home for treatment on a knee injury.

1:11:381:11:44

The first Test starts this month and

the England coach has already

1:11:441:11:47

decided on most of the side for the

Test.

I think we are a little bit

1:11:471:11:52

like Australia, probably down to

nine of the 11, one or two spots

1:11:521:11:59

still discussing and we still have

two more games to go yet. I am sure

1:11:591:12:05

it will work itself out before the

first Test.

Finally, it is known as

1:12:051:12:10

the race that stops a nation, an

incredible finish at the Melbourne

1:12:101:12:15

Cup. An Irish one, two, three. There

was an overtaking in the closing

1:12:151:12:25

sprint. The trainer of the winning

horse was Joseph O'Brien, that

1:12:251:12:29

trainer of the horse he beat of the

line was his father, Aidan O'Brien,

1:12:291:12:32

and the best in the world. Passing

on tips over the breakfast table!

1:12:321:12:37

Thank you very much.

1:12:371:12:41

Next, the Government's flagship

benefit reform Universal Credit

1:12:411:12:43

and claims that foodbank usage has

increased drastically in areas

1:12:431:12:46

where it's been introduced.

1:12:461:12:47

The Trussell Trust,

which is the UK's biggest

1:12:471:12:49

foodbank operator, says areas

where Universal Credit

1:12:491:12:53

has been in place for six months

have seen a 30% increase in demand

1:12:531:12:56

on the previous year.

1:12:561:12:57

The Government say it's

misleading to link foodbank

1:12:571:12:59

usage to any one issue.

1:12:591:13:03

This programme has been

following Universal Credit claimants

1:13:031:13:06

and spoke recently to two

people who have experienced serious

1:13:061:13:10

financial hardship as a result

to moving on to the new benefit.

1:13:101:13:16

Last weekend, we've had no food.

1:13:161:13:19

My five-year-old's last

food was school dinners.

1:13:191:13:22

On Saturday, we were

walking down the street,

1:13:221:13:25

she was searching in bins for food

because she was starving.

1:13:251:13:30

She was, like, ripping McDonald's

bags to see if there were any chips

1:13:301:13:33

or anything on the floor.

1:13:331:13:35

It was awful.

1:13:351:13:36

Broke my heart.

1:13:361:13:37

Sunday, there was no food.

1:13:371:13:40

She was going to bed,

her stomach was rumbling.

1:13:401:13:43

"I'm hungry, I'm

hungry, I'm hungry."

1:13:431:13:44

She had no food Saturday, Sunday.

1:13:441:13:46

Went to school really,

really hungry.

1:13:461:13:47

You take her to bed

and her tummy's rumbling.

1:13:471:13:51

You're just giving her water,

but she wants food and you can't...

1:13:511:13:54

I can't go to the shop and steal.

1:13:541:13:56

It's awful.

1:13:561:13:57

And I can't keep asking

neighbours for food.

1:13:571:13:59

I shouldn't have to live like this.

1:13:591:14:01

It's awful.

1:14:011:14:05

I've never struggled

like this before in my life.

1:14:051:14:08

I've never been in this situation

where I could lose my home.

1:14:081:14:12

It's a big thing.

1:14:121:14:14

I'll die on them streets.

1:14:141:14:16

If I do get evicted,

I don't know what I'll do.

1:14:161:14:19

I don't know where to go for help.

1:14:191:14:23

The chances are 50-50,

if I'm going to be homeless or not.

1:14:231:14:26

Where do I go?

1:14:261:14:27

I don't know really.

1:14:271:14:29

I daren't think that far ahead.

1:14:291:14:36

Kids...

1:14:411:14:43

Kids shouldn't have

to go through this.

1:14:431:14:48

No one should really.

1:14:481:14:53

With us in the studio

are Alison Inglis-Jones

1:14:531:14:57

from the Trussell Trust,

Daphine Aitkens who manages

1:14:571:15:04

Hammersmisth and Fulham foodbank,

and via Skype, two claimants

1:15:041:15:08

of the new benefit -

Brendan Faulkner, in Leeds,

1:15:081:15:10

and Brian Comley, in Southampton.

1:15:101:15:11

And in a moment, we'll

speak to Edward Boyd,

1:15:111:15:14

from the Centre for Social Justice -

the think tank set up by former

1:15:141:15:17

Welfare Secretary Ian Duncan Smith

who designed Universal Credit.

1:15:171:15:20

Allison, compared to the same period

last year, across the country, you

1:15:201:15:25

say foodbank usage is up 13%, but in

areas where Universal Credit has

1:15:251:15:30

been ruled out for six months or

Moore, a 30% on average increase,

1:15:301:15:34

how do you get these fingers?

--

figures? We measured the numbers of

1:15:341:15:39

people coming to the foodbanks

before the roll-out of Universal

1:15:391:15:43

Credit and after and what we saw was

a 30% rise.

How many foodbanks do

1:15:431:15:48

you run in total?

420.

So it was a

small sample.

Representative. A wide

1:15:481:15:58

geographical groupings across the

whole of the UK.

If the figures are

1:15:581:16:02

accurate, why do you say there has

been a much bigger rise in Universal

1:16:021:16:06

Credit areas?

As a volunteer in

three foodbanks and as a trustee, we

1:16:061:16:10

recognise the drivers of people

coming, they have to bring a voucher

1:16:101:16:15

with them, and Universal Credit is

being flagged over and over again as

1:16:151:16:18

one of the reasons why people are

coming and the stories we are

1:16:181:16:22

hearing in the foodbanks.

What about

you, Daphine? Have you seen a rise?

1:16:221:16:28

What are people saying to you about

why they are coming to your

1:16:281:16:32

foodbank?

A very significant rise in

Hammersmith and Fulham. The first

1:16:321:16:36

six months of the financial year,

very nearly double the same period

1:16:361:16:40

of last. We have seen almost 97%

increase. They are coming to us

1:16:401:16:46

primarily because of universal to

credit the stories, one of those you

1:16:461:16:52

heard earlier, one of my clients. No

benefits at all.

Waiting for

1:16:521:16:58

payment?

Her daughter was looking

through bins on the street. With

1:16:581:17:03

that, there is nothing coming in,

not just benefits, your rent,

1:17:031:17:06

housing benefit.

When the Department

for Work and Pensions says the

1:17:061:17:11

reasons for foodbank use are wide

and complex and linking it to one

1:17:111:17:16

issue would be misleading, how do

you respond?

University of Oxford

1:17:161:17:20

research has pinpointed why people

are coming and that is benefit

1:17:201:17:24

sanctions and delays followed by low

income as a driver.

They say, we are

1:17:241:17:28

clear advanced payments are widely

available from the start of anyone's

1:17:281:17:32

claim and urgent cases are fast

tracked so no one should be without

1:17:321:17:36

funds.

This is what they say. The

problem with the advance payments is

1:17:361:17:40

that they have to be paid back

almost immediately, the first time

1:17:401:17:51

you get your Universal Credit

payment, 13 weeks afterwards

1:17:511:17:53

perhaps, you have to start paying

the advance back in quite

1:17:531:17:55

significant amounts and somebody who

already has accrued debt and other

1:17:551:17:57

financial issues including rent

arrears, to start paying the debt

1:17:571:18:01

back immediately on very small

amounts of money, it is crazy. I

1:18:011:18:04

have a client who I saw on Friday,

her Universal Credit payment is less

1:18:041:18:08

than her housing benefit that she

has to pay each month.

Let me bring

1:18:081:18:11

in Brian. Thank you for coming on

the programme. What led you to using

1:18:111:18:17

a foodbank?

1:18:171:18:22

Mainly in between benefits when I

had to get some food in. I was going

1:18:221:18:28

to wait six weeks, but then I forced

them to sort of think about and give

1:18:281:18:34

me advance payment on the Universal

Credit which I have got £400 which I

1:18:341:18:38

have now paid back.

Right.

And what was that period of time

1:18:381:18:41

like?

Not, I want to really -- I

wasn't really worried about things.

1:18:411:18:50

I had a foodbank that come to me

once every Friday instead of just

1:18:501:18:55

for the two weeks. You had to wait

for one. But yeah, this one was

1:18:551:19:02

every Friday so you would look

forward to Friday.

Yes, but you were

1:19:021:19:06

reliant on it effectively for a

period of time?

For a period of

1:19:061:19:09

time, yeah.

Let me bring in Edward

Boyd for the Centre for Social

1:19:091:19:16

Justice. They designed Universal

Credit. I'm really glad you're here

1:19:161:19:21

because I am desperate to ask why

design a system that makes you wait

1:19:211:19:26

six weeks for the first payment?

Thank you for having us on. The

1:19:261:19:30

thirst thing to say...

No. No, just

answer that question first of all

1:19:301:19:33

because it is the key theme that

comes up every time.

You have to

1:19:331:19:38

split it into two parts. At the

moment when you come in as a new

1:19:381:19:42

claimant, when you get paid your

money, you are not paid for the

1:19:421:19:45

first seven days, when you get your

money there is a deficit in terms of

1:19:451:19:48

the income that you get. That was

never anything we designed and there

1:19:481:19:51

is a big reason why people are

falling into debt. We are relying on

1:19:511:19:56

foodbanks is something that we are

petitioning the Government to

1:19:561:19:58

change. The idea of being paid at

the end of the month, take that at

1:19:581:20:01

the end of the month when someone is

being paid is you will mirror what

1:20:011:20:04

it is like out of work with what it

is like into work. The idea here are

1:20:041:20:10

a group of people who are vulnerable

and out of work and you need to do

1:20:101:20:15

to all you can to support them into

work.

It is still six weeks before

1:20:151:20:20

the first payment?

No, it's not.

It's paid in arrears. You take away

1:20:201:20:25

the first week, it is only five

weeks which I think they should be

1:20:251:20:28

doing and looking to do in the

Budget. The idea of paying it in

1:20:281:20:33

arrears... For most people who move

on to Universal Credit they will be

1:20:331:20:38

in work already and they will

behaving a wage that's paid at the

1:20:381:20:41

end of the month and it makes sense

to sync the two together. If you are

1:20:411:20:46

talking about people out of work and

don't have savings, they should be

1:20:461:20:51

getting a payment upfront. You get

to within two weeks, and if you

1:20:511:20:54

really need it, the first day you go

into a Jobcentre, you should be

1:20:541:20:58

getting it that day. We heard over

the conference season this year,

1:20:581:21:01

that's what has been brought in now.

So it is a really welcome change. I

1:21:011:21:04

think they had an issue with this

about three to four months ago, not

1:21:041:21:11

enough people were getting budget

advances and the work coaches on the

1:21:111:21:14

ground weren't explaining it.

It is

still a problem because you get an

1:21:141:21:18

advanced payment and of course, you

have to pay that back, of course,

1:21:181:21:21

you do. By then, you're already in

debt. So it sort of spirals. That's

1:21:211:21:25

what we're hearing from people.

The

way that this payment works is you

1:21:251:21:29

pay it over six months, it's

interest-free.

It doesn't matter.

It

1:21:291:21:34

doesn't matter that it's interest

free?

People, on paper, this sounds

1:21:341:21:40

really as though it should work. In

reality I'm saying to you, we have

1:21:401:21:45

heard so many stories from people

that it is not working. That it is

1:21:451:21:49

making their lives really hard. I

don't feel that you are

1:21:491:21:52

understanding that.

Look, we deal

with, I help set-up a foodbank and I

1:21:521:21:58

speak to people like this all the

time. Trust me we understand that

1:21:581:22:03

side of things. You cannot compare a

stwempl that's not perfect and it is

1:22:031:22:06

not perfect as it is with the one

that came before because that was

1:22:061:22:09

even worse than the system that we

have got now. This is about

1:22:091:22:13

improving something...

I wasn't

comparing it to the one before. I

1:22:131:22:16

was wondering why it wasn't better

than it is.

This is about improving

1:22:161:22:21

the way that welfare works and

trying to minimise the number of

1:22:211:22:24

people that fall through the gaps.

You look at how it is working across

1:22:241:22:28

the whole country though and the

data, whether it is from IFS or the

1:22:281:22:33

Government, shows more people are in

work and more people are staying in

1:22:331:22:36

work than ever before.

So that's a

good thing.

The fact that people are

1:22:361:22:40

having to rely on foodbanks is not

how it should be. The fact that the

1:22:401:22:44

advanced payments are not getting to

these people is doing that DWP needs

1:22:441:22:50

to look. There is more people in

work as a result.

1:22:501:22:53

Thank you very much. Thank you to

all of you, thank you for coming on

1:22:531:22:56

the programme.

1:22:561:22:58

Still to come:

1:22:581:22:59

President Trump has arrived

in South Korea, on the latest leg

1:22:591:23:02

of his tour of East Asia.

1:23:021:23:03

We'll have the latest.

1:23:031:23:06

As if Theresa May didn't have

enough to worry about,

1:23:061:23:08

she's now got another couple

of problems on her plate -

1:23:081:23:11

both of them caused

by members of her Cabinet.

1:23:111:23:13

The Development Secretary,

Priti Patel, has caused her huge

1:23:131:23:15

embarrassment by holding talks

in Israel with senior government

1:23:151:23:17

figures without even

telling the Foreign Office.

1:23:171:23:25

And the Foreign Secretary himself,

Boris Johnson, has made unguarded

1:23:251:23:28

comments about a British women who's

being held in jail in Iran that

1:23:281:23:31

might mean her being

imprisoned even longer.

1:23:311:23:33

Our political guru,

Norman Smith, is here.

1:23:331:23:37

Hi Norman.

Hi.

In normal

circumstances would these two

1:23:371:23:42

ministers have lost their jobs by

now?

I think a lot of people at

1:23:421:23:46

Westminster think yes, they would

have been sacked, but because Mrs

1:23:461:23:50

May's Cabinet is just so fragile at

the moment she can't afford to boot

1:23:501:23:53

anyone out, but it is a fairly

extraordinary set of events that has

1:23:531:23:59

now unfolding. Normally on Tuesday

there is a Cabinet. There isn't a

1:23:591:24:04

Cabinet today and frankly that's

just as well because you suspect a

1:24:041:24:06

lot of Cabinet Ministers would sort

of looking rather shame faced at the

1:24:061:24:10

mess they are in. Top of the pile,

Boris Johnson, as you say, facing

1:24:101:24:16

mounting criticism after he appears

to have worsened the plight of this

1:24:161:24:20

British Iranian woman who has

already been jailed for five years

1:24:201:24:25

by mistakenly suggesting that she

had gone to Iran to help teach

1:24:251:24:29

journalism. The Iranian authorities

have said ah-ha, she was here to

1:24:291:24:36

spread propaganda against our regime

and are threatening to double her

1:24:361:24:40

jail sentence and this all stems

from comments Mr Johnson made last

1:24:401:24:45

week at the Foreign Affairs Select

Committee. Let's listen to what he

1:24:451:24:48

said.

1:24:481:24:51

When you look at what Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe was doing, she was

1:24:511:24:57

simply teaching people journalism as

I understand it.

Her husband said

1:24:571:25:05

that's incorrect. Her employers have

said that's just wrong. So wrong we

1:25:051:25:09

have not had an apology or

clarification from Mr Johnson, but

1:25:091:25:13

he is going to phone the Iranian

Foreign Minister later this morning.

1:25:131:25:19

Elsewhere, we have Priti Patel who

is been found out being economical

1:25:191:25:25

with the actuality about going and

seeing a whole load of Israeli

1:25:251:25:29

politicians during a holiday in

Israel, not telling the Foreign

1:25:291:25:32

Secretary or anyone in government

about it and not being very clear

1:25:321:25:36

about who she was meeting including,

it seems, the Israeli Prime

1:25:361:25:40

Minister. Then, of course, at the

table, wee have Damian Green. He is

1:25:401:25:45

shame faced because he's under

investigation about the Cabinet

1:25:451:25:49

Office over improper behaviour,

alleged improper behaviour and where

1:25:491:25:53

he had pornography on his computer.

We have got the new Chief Whip,

1:25:531:25:58

Gavin Williamson who has just been

promoted and a lot of people think

1:25:581:26:03

he only has been promoted because he

is Theresa May's best buddy and

1:26:031:26:07

Andrea Leadsom is facing accusations

she was the woman who knifed Michael

1:26:071:26:12

Fallon by saying Mr Fallon had made

improper remarks to her. My thinking

1:26:121:26:16

is Theresa May is going thank god I

don't have a Cabinet today!

1:26:161:26:21

Thank you very much, Norman.

1:26:211:26:27

We can speak now to the Conservative

MP Nadhim Zahawi sits

1:26:271:26:30

on the Foreign Affairs Select

Committee.

1:26:301:26:33

We can Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe's

husband, Richard Ratcliffe.

1:26:331:26:35

And the political commentator

Daisy McAndrew is here.

1:26:351:26:40

Should Boris Johnson resign?

No, I

don't think he should resign. The

1:26:401:26:46

important thing is to focus on

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe this. Is a

1:26:461:26:50

mother, a wife who was on holiday

and has been jailed and the Iranian

1:26:501:26:56

regime a couple of weeks ago were

looking at increasing her sentence.

1:26:561:27:01

Let's not forget what this is about.

No one is forgetting the precarious

1:27:011:27:12

position that Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe finds herself in,

1:27:121:27:15

apart, it seems, the Foreign

Secretary?

Well, I don't think

1:27:151:27:19

that's right. He on that committee,

said that he would personally want

1:27:191:27:24

to visit Nazanin. He will be

redoubling his efforts when he

1:27:241:27:29

speaks to the Iranian Foreign

Minister...

He got his facts wrong

1:27:291:27:36

in a very, very, in a way that he

should not have got his facts wrong

1:27:361:27:41

because somebody's life is depending

on the kind of comments that the

1:27:411:27:44

Foreign Secretary of this country

makes.

1:27:441:27:49

Well, Nazanin's life is depending on

the behaviour of the Revolutionary

1:27:491:27:54

Guard court. The IRGC and I think

let's be careful here. We've got to

1:27:541:27:58

make sure that we get Nazanin, she

is a British citizen, and mother and

1:27:581:28:02

a wife, she was on holiday...

So if

Boris Johnson makes mistakes about

1:28:021:28:06

why she was in the country, he is

not going to be able to get her out,

1:28:061:28:10

is he?

And he is going to be on the

phone making it very clear to his

1:28:101:28:17

counterpart in Iran that his words

to the committee were wrong and he

1:28:171:28:20

will redouble his efforts to get her

out and you know...

Has he rung his

1:28:201:28:27

Iranian counterpart already?

I can't

hear you. Well, I don't know because

1:28:271:28:34

I don't speak for Boris Johnson. I'm

a member of Parliament and I'm on

1:28:341:28:38

the Foreign Affairs Select

Committee, I want him to redouble

1:28:381:28:40

his efforts. What I don't want to

happen is Emily Thornbury and the

1:28:401:28:45

Labour Party to be seen as stodgies.

Oh, come on.

This is wrong. We

1:28:451:28:50

should focus on the behaviour of the

Iranian regime and put as must

1:28:501:28:54

pressure on them as possible to get

Nazanin back home.

The way you are

1:28:541:28:58

talking, it sounds as though you

don't really think Boris Johnson has

1:28:581:29:02

done anything wrong?

That's not

true, Victoria, with all respect. I

1:29:021:29:09

opened by saying to you he clearly

made a mistake...

And how damaging

1:29:091:29:13

is that.

He wants to put it right by

speaking to his counterpart. What is

1:29:131:29:20

damaging is the behaviour of the

regime and that's what we should

1:29:201:29:24

focus on.

Thank you for talking to

us.

1:29:241:29:30

Richard Ratcliffe is here as is

Daisy McAndrew.

1:29:301:29:34

Hello. How are you?

Hi, Victoria. It

has been a tough few days.

So how

1:29:341:29:41

damaging is it what Boris Johnson

said and just to let our audience

1:29:411:29:46

know, he told a Parliamentary

Committee that your wife was in Iran

1:29:461:29:50

teaching people journalism, a

reference to her role as programme

1:29:501:29:53

co-ordinator with the Thompson

Reuters foundation, which is not

1:29:531:29:56

true. She was not teaching people

journalism and days later a court

1:29:561:30:01

hearing in Tehran cited Mr Johnson's

comments as proof she was spreading

1:30:011:30:05

propaganda.

That's right. He spoke

in the Foreign Affairs Committee and

1:30:051:30:10

he said three things. One of which

was, the MP has just said, he

1:30:101:30:16

condemned Iran for its detention of

her. I was pleased. He said she was

1:30:161:30:22

training journalism which we were

not happy with and he offered to

1:30:221:30:25

visit. It was great and we picked up

on the positives and two days later

1:30:251:30:28

she was brought in front of the most

severe of the rev lieu court judges

1:30:281:30:32

and told there were new charges of

spreading propaganda against the

1:30:321:30:36

regime.

Which could lead to her

spending more years in jail?

It

1:30:361:30:43

depends on how many years. She has

been classed as a repeat offender.

1:30:431:30:47

We will see where it goes.

What do

you want from Boris Johnson?

He made

1:30:471:30:50

a statement to Parliament and we say

things sometimes that we don't quite

1:30:501:30:54

get right and I have said them in

interviews as well, but he can in

1:30:541:30:58

Parliament correct it and I think

the important thing to, rather than

1:30:581:31:01

a private phone call to the Foreign

Minister, is in Parliament to say

1:31:011:31:05

listen, Nazanin is innocent. She is

a mother on holiday and she wasn't

1:31:051:31:09

training journalist. That's clear.

It is clear to the Iranians and it

1:31:091:31:12

can't be man. Lated in the way that

the Iranian press have been doing

1:31:121:31:16

since.

Are you comfortable to see

him stay in his job?

It is not my

1:31:161:31:22

place to say what should happen with

the Foreign Secretary and I don't...

1:31:221:31:26

Is he good enough to be Foreign

Secretary?

I have only interest in

1:31:261:31:31

one foreign policy and that is

Nazanin and I am no no judge on

1:31:311:31:34

anything else. I am glad he engaged

with Nazanin's case last week and I

1:31:341:31:38

am glad he condemned Iran. I

wouldn't want him to back away. I

1:31:381:31:44

want him to continue doing what he

can to get her home.

Daisy, what do

1:31:441:31:49

you think?

Boris buffoony is only

one element of what's going on in

1:31:491:31:54

Westminster. It is the one element

that has an impact on your family.

1:31:541:31:57

The fact that he hasn't yet publicly

changed that statement I find

1:31:571:32:02

extraordinary. Sew said I'm going to

call the Iranians, but hasn't said I

1:32:021:32:09

got it categorically wrong and she

wasn't there training journalists.

1:32:091:32:11

We know he has got a massive track

record of buffoonish comments and

1:32:111:32:17

the lack of detail, but normally in

the past it has been hanging off a

1:32:171:32:21

zip wire and it hasn't affected

anyone and it has been a laugh. This

1:32:211:32:24

is not a laugh. This issier serious

and this is one of the reasons why

1:32:241:32:29

people were worried when he got this

position because his knowledge of

1:32:291:32:32

detail or ability to remember detail

sometimes has failed him in the past

1:32:321:32:35

and is doing so again.

As Foreign

Secretary, can you be across every

1:32:351:32:43

detail?

No, but this is a huge story

that has been running for a long

1:32:431:32:50

time, an innocent woman being held

in Iran. He should have known how

1:32:501:32:53

dangerous it would be if he got it

wrong which Egypt. He is one of many

1:32:531:32:58

Cabinet ministers making a hash of

the job at the moment.

How is your

1:32:581:33:02

wife at the moment?

Very shaken on

Saturday, she had just come out of

1:33:021:33:08

the court. It is what has happened

and the previous times being back in

1:33:081:33:13

solitary. I spoke to her on Sunday

and she was calmer. It is the

1:33:131:33:18

disorientation and a fear of what

this will mean.

I promised her we

1:33:181:33:21

will keep going. Thank you very much

for coming on the programme.

1:33:211:33:25

We will talk about an exclusive

interview we will bring you now with

1:33:251:33:32

a woman seeking what is thought to

be the UK's first crowd funded

1:33:321:33:37

private rape prosecution. She tells

us she hopes to lead the way for

1:33:371:33:41

those let down by the courts. Emily

Hunt claimed she was drugged and

1:33:411:33:47

raped in 2015. Police investigated,

the CPS felt there was insufficient

1:33:471:33:49

evidence to proceed. She has hired a

barrister who believes there are

1:33:491:33:55

grounds for a criminal prosecution.

She has waived her right to

1:33:551:33:59

anonymity to talk to us this

morning. Some of the conversation is

1:33:591:34:03

of a graphic nature and you might

not want children to hear.

1:34:031:34:10

When I woke up, I had

never seen him before.

1:34:101:34:13

I was on a hotel bed.

1:34:131:34:14

Basically, I woke up cold

and with a sheet on me that had

1:34:141:34:17

a really particular texture to it.

1:34:171:34:19

I knew it wasn't mine.

1:34:191:34:20

Did you have any clothes on?

1:34:201:34:22

No, I was completely naked.

1:34:221:34:23

And I didn't know

what was happening.

1:34:231:34:27

And then I looked over my shoulder

and I saw this man sitting

1:34:271:34:31

on the hotel bed, leaning up

against the headboard,

1:34:311:34:35

flipping channels and watching TV.

1:34:351:34:37

And I'd never seen him

before in my life, ever.

1:34:371:34:42

What condition were you in?

1:34:421:34:49

I was kind of in and out

for a little while.

1:34:491:34:56

When I finally, properly, came to,

1:34:561:34:58

I pretty quickly had this light bulb

moment that I'd been drugged.

1:34:581:35:01

I'd never felt like that before.

1:35:011:35:03

I'd never lost five hours of my life

completely and totally,

1:35:031:35:07

and wound up somewhere I didn't know

how I'd got there with someone

1:35:071:35:11

I'd never seen before.

1:35:111:35:12

What condition was he in?

1:35:121:35:13

He seemed quite relaxed.

1:35:131:35:14

He was just watching TV,

kind of laughing along.

1:35:141:35:18

Was he compos mentis, sober?

1:35:181:35:20

Yes, he was.

1:35:201:35:21

He seemed sober at the time and then

I found out later that he hadn't

1:35:211:35:25

even had a drop of alcohol.

1:35:251:35:26

He was completely sober.

1:35:261:35:27

What did you say?

1:35:271:35:28

What did you do?

1:35:281:35:29

I'm a bit fuzzy on that, actually.

1:35:291:35:36

I know that I sort of leaned

over, got my things.

1:35:361:35:38

They were in a pile next

to me on the floor.

1:35:381:35:41

I gathered up my belongings

and my handbag and went

1:35:411:35:45

into the bathroom and kind of hid

for at least ten minutes.

1:35:451:35:49

I phoned a friend and said,

"There's something really

1:35:491:35:51

wrong going on here.

1:35:511:35:52

I don't feel OK.

1:35:521:35:53

I feel in a way I've never felt

before and there's this guy."

1:35:531:35:57

And my friend rang the police.

1:35:571:35:59

Yeah.

1:35:591:36:01

Do you have any memory of how

you ended up in that hotel room

1:36:011:36:05

on that Sunday afternoon?

1:36:051:36:06

No.

1:36:061:36:07

The very last thing I remember

is having lunch with my dad.

1:36:071:36:10

We were in a local restaurant

we go to quite a lot

1:36:101:36:13

and we were having lunch.

1:36:131:36:16

And then the conversation went

a bit weird, and that's

1:36:161:36:20

the last thing I remember.

1:36:201:36:25

Later, much, much later,

you learned that this man had

1:36:251:36:29

in fact had sex with you.

1:36:291:36:31

You say he raped you.

1:36:311:36:33

And your argument was that it was

rape because there was no way

1:36:331:36:37

you could have consented

because of the condition

1:36:371:36:39

you were in.

1:36:391:36:39

So, when I woke up and was obviously

upset, hid in the bathroom.

1:36:391:36:43

When I came back out, I guess

he was trying to reassure me.

1:36:431:36:46

He said that nothing had happened.

1:36:461:36:51

I didn't find out until two days

later when the police finally

1:36:511:36:57

told me that he had said there had

been sex, but in his opinion,

1:36:571:37:00

it had been consensual.

1:37:001:37:02

On the night, in the hotel room,

because the police had

1:37:021:37:05

the hotel room immediately,

they had found used condoms.

1:37:051:37:07

That was the first I'd heard of it.

1:37:071:37:09

How did you react to it?

1:37:091:37:10

I was devastated.

1:37:101:37:13

I was really hoping

that he was telling the truth.

1:37:131:37:18

I probably knew he wasn't telling

the truth but denial

1:37:181:37:22

is a really strong thing.

1:37:221:37:25

It was terrifying to know,

for certain, that I'd been raped

1:37:251:37:30

and then the police hadn't told me

for two days.

1:37:301:37:36

I had to get all my

own after-rape care.

1:37:361:37:38

I had to get the morning after pill.

1:37:381:37:40

I had to go get protection

against sexually transmitted

1:37:401:37:42

diseases because the police hadn't

done any of that for me.

1:37:421:37:49

You also learned that this man had

filmed you naked and unconscious

1:37:491:37:51

on the bed and he'd masturbated

while you slept.

1:37:511:37:54

Yeah.

1:37:541:37:55

I actually didn't learn

that for about a year.

1:37:551:37:57

The police didn't tell me

until a year after the incident.

1:37:571:38:02

How did that make you feel?

1:38:021:38:04

I had a lot of difficulty

going through all of this.

1:38:041:38:11

I felt...

1:38:111:38:14

How could I have made my appeal?

1:38:141:38:16

When the CPS decided not

to charge, I appealed.

1:38:161:38:19

I couldn't make the appeal properly

because I didn't know two

1:38:191:38:22

really important things.

1:38:221:38:27

The first being that he had had no

alcohol in his system.

1:38:271:38:31

The second being that,

when he was arrested,

1:38:311:38:33

he had Viagra in his possession.

1:38:331:38:36

I don't know about you, but I can't

really imagine that a single guy,

1:38:361:38:39

walking around and going to a pub

on a Sunday afternoon

1:38:391:38:42

on his own would need Viagra

if he had no nefarious plans.

1:38:421:38:45

And then the final one was finding

out about the video.

1:38:451:38:48

I would have pushed the CPS

to investigate that

1:38:481:38:52

further, and they did.

1:38:521:38:54

They did an appeal on it.

1:38:541:39:02

Somewhat disturbingly, it turns out

that filming me while I was naked

1:39:021:39:05

and I am told unconscious.

1:39:051:39:06

It's clear I am unconscious

and not asleep.

1:39:061:39:08

You've not seen this footage?

1:39:081:39:11

They offered, and I

politely declined.

1:39:111:39:13

I don't need to see that.

1:39:131:39:14

There are no naked

pictures of me that exist.

1:39:141:39:16

I really don't want to see that.

1:39:161:39:19

But I'm told I'm quite

obviously unconscious.

1:39:191:39:27

The Crown Prosecution Service did

review whether or not any laws

1:39:271:39:30

were broken and they say

none were broken.

1:39:301:39:32

Toxicology tests showed you had two

times over the drink-drive

1:39:321:39:34

limit of alcohol in you.

1:39:341:39:35

Yeah.

1:39:351:39:37

They came back negative for any

signs of, for example, GHB,

1:39:371:39:40

which is the date rape drug.

1:39:401:39:44

There is CCTV footage of you,

and your alleged attacker,

1:39:441:39:48

leaving a bar, kissing and holding

hands as you walked to the hotel.

1:39:481:39:51

Do you remember any of that?

1:39:511:39:52

None.

1:39:521:39:53

I don't remember anything at all.

1:39:531:39:55

It's like I said earlier,

the first time I met him

1:39:551:39:57

was when I woke up naked

next to him.

1:39:571:40:00

So, I think I was drugged.

1:40:001:40:03

There are a couple of reasons why

the toxicology report is flawed.

1:40:031:40:06

It's something I've asked both

the police and the CPS

1:40:061:40:08

to address, and they haven't.

1:40:081:40:11

It turns out the Metropolitan Police

gave the toxicology lab

1:40:111:40:14

the wrong timeline,

which is a really big deal.

1:40:141:40:16

So, my last memory is around 4pm.

1:40:161:40:18

The time they gave

to the lab is 7pm.

1:40:181:40:23

The CPS say they looked at the CCTV

footage and considered the fact

1:40:231:40:30

the toxicology tests were negative

for any drugs, other than alcohol,

1:40:301:40:32

and made the decision there wasn't

enough evidence to proceed

1:40:321:40:35

with the case.

1:40:351:40:36

The Met says they carried out

a thorough investigation

1:40:361:40:44

following your allegations,

confirming that the CPS concluded

1:40:441:40:45

there was insufficient evidence

to bring a prosecution.

1:40:451:40:47

They talk about the fact

you subsequently made a number

1:40:471:40:50

of complaints to the Met

about your investigation.

1:40:501:40:52

They were passed to the IPCC,

that is the Independent

1:40:521:40:54

Complaints Commission.

1:40:541:40:55

That was independently

reviewed and not upheld.

1:40:551:41:01

You are now crowdfunding in order

to bring a private prosecution

1:41:011:41:04

against your alleged attacker.

1:41:041:41:05

Why?

1:41:051:41:10

There's a couple of reasons.

1:41:101:41:12

Again, the first one

being that the toxicology is flawed.

1:41:121:41:14

You can't make a decision

on whether or not I'd had enough

1:41:141:41:18

alcohol for a straightforward

consent case, based

1:41:181:41:20

on flawed toxicology.

1:41:201:41:21

How will you prove it's flawed?

1:41:211:41:25

Giving the lab the correct time will

change the way they do the maths,

1:41:251:41:28

to figure out what my levels were.

1:41:281:41:30

That, in itself, should

substantially help my case.

1:41:301:41:35

The second one is that the CCTV does

show me all over him.

1:41:351:41:40

I'm told that's a really common

effect of mixing alcohol and GHB,

1:41:401:41:43

that it has an ectasy-like quality.

1:41:431:41:45

The other thing the CCTV

shows me is me literally

1:41:451:41:48

falling over on a bench,

swaying, being very,

1:41:481:41:55

very clearly intoxicated.

1:41:551:41:57

With whatever I was intoxicated on,

1:41:571:41:59

it's very clear that I am not

remotely sober, and he is.

1:41:591:42:02

The toxicology again says he hadn't

had so much as a sip of alcohol.

1:42:021:42:05

So, there is that

side of it as well.

1:42:051:42:08

How would a private prosecution

work in practical terms?

1:42:081:42:12

It's an amazing thing.

1:42:121:42:16

In the UK, we can, as individuals,

hire a barrister to bring a criminal

1:42:161:42:21

charge, which isn't something I knew

before any of this happened to me.

1:42:211:42:24

And it basically goes forward,

like any other criminal case.

1:42:241:42:30

You have to gather all the evidence,

you have to submit in the same way

1:42:301:42:34

you would with the Crown doing it.

1:42:341:42:36

In some cases, the Crown

does take it back over

1:42:361:42:39

and they take it forward.

1:42:391:42:43

But it is an amazing thing that we,

as individuals, can actually bring

1:42:431:42:46

a criminal charge in a case

where the system has let us

1:42:461:42:49

down, which can result

in a rapist going to jail.

1:42:491:42:54

You must have considered

an alternative version of events,

1:42:541:43:00

which is, you were really drunk,

and you had sex with a man

1:43:001:43:04

and woke up thinking,

"Oh, my gosh, what have I done?"

1:43:041:43:09

Even if I was not drugged,

and I do believe I was,

1:43:091:43:13

even if I was not drugged,

I would have been completely

1:43:131:43:15

incapable of giving consent,

even if it were just alcohol.

1:43:151:43:19

Alcohol is very powerful, you know?

1:43:191:43:22

There are quite a few people who had

a little bit too much

1:43:221:43:27

to drink and done something

that they regretted.

1:43:271:43:30

I don't know about you,

but if I have a little

1:43:301:43:36

bit too much to drink,

inevitably, things go a bit fuzzy

1:43:361:43:38

but I remember the most

embarrassing thing.

1:43:381:43:40

In this case, I have a complete

and total five-hour chunk

1:43:401:43:43

of my memory missing,

which is absolutely terrifying.

1:43:431:43:47

And again, even if it were just

alcohol, given the CCTV footage

1:43:471:43:50

of me unable to stand,

my arms are wrapped around him,

1:43:501:43:56

which you can interpret as flirty,

absolutely, but I'm also using him

1:43:561:43:59

to stand up.

1:43:591:44:00

There is no way I could have given

consent in a state like that,

1:44:001:44:03

even if it were just alcohol.

1:44:031:44:05

What ultimately do you want?

1:44:051:44:07

That's a big question.

1:44:071:44:11

I want a couple of things.

1:44:111:44:16

The first thing is I want rape to be

a prosecutable offence in the UK.

1:44:161:44:20

Right now, statistics show it's not.

1:44:201:44:21

Under 15% of rapes in

the UK are recorded.

1:44:211:44:24

Of that 15%, conviction

rates are abysmal.

1:44:241:44:25

They're in single digits.

1:44:251:44:27

People give up at some point

when speaking to the police.

1:44:271:44:30

The police do not pass all cases

to the CPS and the CPS does not

1:44:301:44:33

take all cases forward.

1:44:331:44:35

I recognise that their mandate

is to take forward cases

1:44:351:44:37

that they feel 100% that they could

win and they say that is part

1:44:371:44:41

of the public interest.

1:44:411:44:44

I strongly believe that if they had

redone the toxicology report

1:44:441:44:47

with the proper timeline,

that my case would be pretty much

1:44:471:44:50

100% winnable because you'd have

clear proof I couldn't consent.

1:44:501:44:54

No matter how many times

I have reminded them

1:44:541:44:57

that they still haven't redone

the numbers on the toxicology

1:44:571:44:59

report, they haven't done it,

and that, for me, is my strongest

1:44:591:45:02

bit of evidence.

1:45:021:45:04

In addition to that,

there is the CCTV of me falling over

1:45:041:45:06

and the fact he wasn't drinking.

1:45:061:45:09

What I want most is my

rapist to go to jail.

1:45:091:45:14

I'm not going to

pretend anything else.

1:45:141:45:16

The thing I want after that is for

other women in my situation who have

1:45:161:45:20

been let down to be able to have

justice against their

1:45:201:45:23

rapists and, for them,

1:45:231:45:24

to be able to go forward

and put their rapists in jail.

1:45:241:45:28

That is why with our

Go Fund Me page, we are

1:45:281:45:31

looking to raise £100,000.

1:45:311:45:36

That, as far as I'm aware,

is about as much as it will take

1:45:361:45:39

for two cases to go

forward from the start.

1:45:391:45:44

Emily Hunt in her bid to raise

£100,000 in order to fund a private

1:45:441:45:49

rape prosecution.

1:45:491:45:52

If you're black - you're eight times

more likely to be stopped

1:45:531:45:56

and searched by a police officer

than any other ethnic group.

1:45:561:45:58

Although it has been used around

300,000 times across England

1:45:581:46:01

and Wales in the past year,

only 17% of those lead

1:46:011:46:03

to an actual arrest.

1:46:031:46:04

For innocent people being stopped

in the street can be

1:46:041:46:07

scary and intimidating

and for some, it can lead

1:46:071:46:09

to distrust of police officers.

1:46:091:46:17

The country's biggest

force, the Met,

1:46:171:46:20

say its vital to reduce knife crime

- 21 teenagers have been killed

1:46:201:46:23

in london alone so far this year -

15 were stabbed to death.

1:46:231:46:26

Our reporter Noel Phillips

was stopped and searched twice

1:46:261:46:28

within a few months.

1:46:281:46:30

After he complained about his

treatment the Met apologised.

1:46:301:46:35

We bought you his full film earlier,

here's a short extract.

1:46:351:46:42

RADIO:

The person with a knife

punched the informant in the face.

1:46:421:46:45

We're going to a call to a shop

in the south of the borough.

1:46:451:46:49

We're on patrol with

the Metropolitan Police's Rapid

1:46:491:46:52

Response Unit in North London.

1:46:521:46:53

One of those has pulled a knife out,

a flick knife out, and threatened

1:46:531:46:56

a shopkeeper with it.

1:46:561:46:57

So, we've got a description.

1:46:571:46:59

It's a white, 13 to 14-year-old,

grey tracksuit with blonde hair.

1:46:591:47:03

We've been given rare access

into one of their most

1:47:031:47:05

controversial powers,

stop and search.

1:47:051:47:10

I'm sure the officer has explained

you are being searched

1:47:101:47:13

because there has been an incident

when someone produced a flick

1:47:131:47:15

knife on a shop keeper.

1:47:151:47:17

What's your first name?

1:47:171:47:18

Officers stopped a 16-year-old,

who matches the description.

1:47:181:47:19

Sorry for the inconvenience.

We'll only keep you a minute.

1:47:191:47:22

We'll just get this sorted.

1:47:221:47:23

But, his 15-year-old friend

who is black, is being arrested.

1:47:231:47:26

Space for one juvenile male, please.

1:47:261:47:29

So, basically, we're

using our powers for weapons.

1:47:291:47:33

A flick knife, obviously,

being a weapon.

1:47:331:47:37

In this case, we found drugs on this

boy, so he's been arrested.

1:47:371:47:40

The other one has nothing

illegal, so we're just

1:47:401:47:43

going to get his details.

1:47:431:47:44

He'll be on his way.

1:47:441:47:45

Mate, stop walking away.

Stop walking away.

1:47:451:47:47

Overall figures to stop and search

shows an overall reduction

1:47:471:47:49

in the powers being used.

1:47:491:47:51

But, according to Home Office

figures, if you're black,

1:47:511:47:53

you're eight times more likely to be

stop and searched compared

1:47:531:47:55

to any other ethnic group.

1:47:551:48:01

I also know what it feels like to be

stopped and searched.

1:48:011:48:05

In fact, the most recent is at this

very spot where I'm standing.

1:48:051:48:09

Now I remember four plainclothes

officers approaching me.

1:48:091:48:13

It was all so sudden,

all so unexpected.

1:48:131:48:15

They asked me what I was doing.

1:48:151:48:18

I pointed in that direction and said

I was on my way home.

1:48:181:48:21

And yet I was still searched.

1:48:211:48:24

Your behaviour...

1:48:241:48:26

How you was on your bike.

1:48:261:48:28

Your behaviour when you

were on this bike...

1:48:281:48:30

Sorry, I'm allowed to film.

1:48:301:48:33

At that point, the officer

took my phone and stopped me

1:48:331:48:37

recording what was happening

and I was detained and searched.

1:48:371:48:47

We're going to put some gloves on.

1:48:491:48:51

We're not looking to

blanket search black men.

1:48:511:48:53

We're looking to search gang

members, people that we get

1:48:531:48:55

calls for service that

describe the suspect.

1:48:551:48:57

If we see someone who matches that

description, they're

1:48:571:48:59

going to be searched.

1:48:591:49:00

Noel Phillips reporting there.

1:49:001:49:01

You can see the full version of that

report at bbc.co.uk/victoria.

1:49:011:49:04

Let's talk to Janet Hills,

Chair of the Metropolitan Black

1:49:041:49:06

Police Association who spent

24 years in the Met.

1:49:061:49:16

Gwenton Sloley who now

trains police officers

1:49:241:49:26

at the Met and other forces on how

to use their stop and search powers.

1:49:261:49:29

He is also the Director

of the charity Crying Sons.

1:49:291:49:32

And Lillian and Paul Barnes whose

son Quamari was the second teenager

1:49:321:49:35

to be stabbed to death

in London this year.

1:49:351:49:37

He died on 23rd January.

1:49:371:49:38

Quamari was stabbed to death

outside his school in Kensal Green.

1:49:381:49:41

His murderer was sentenced last week

for a minimum of 14 years.

1:49:411:49:43

Paul says if stop and search can

stop the killings then it

1:49:431:49:46

has his full support.

1:49:461:49:47

We are going to talk to a viewer who

got in touch. He is in high Wycombe.

1:49:471:49:51

Thank you for talking to us. I want

to ask all of you this one simple

1:49:511:49:55

question. Have you been stopped and

searched?

Yes.

How many times?

1:49:551:50:03

Recently, not as much as

historically.

Over your lifetime?

1:50:031:50:07

About 20 times.

Janet, have you been

stopped and searched?

Yes. I have it

1:50:071:50:13

has been in my car, but it amounts

to the same thing.

Were you a police

1:50:131:50:17

officer at the time?

Yes, I was.

Wow. Paul have you been stopped and

1:50:171:50:22

searched

Uncountable times.

Not

recently. Not in the last seven

1:50:221:50:31

years since I moved out of Croydon,

when I grew up in cou dorntion

1:50:311:50:36

countless times.

You will know that

the commissioner of the Met says

1:50:361:50:39

there is a link between stop and

search and reducing knife crime. Do

1:50:391:50:44

you Lillian and Paul, do you think

she is right?

A little bit. A little

1:50:441:50:51

bit. Personally, I think, yeah.

Stop

and search has your support?

Yeah,

1:50:511:51:00

fully. If it's going to stop all the

killings out there because it has

1:51:001:51:06

been ridiculous this year. So if

it's going to stop the killings it

1:51:061:51:10

has got my full support 101%.

What

about you, Lillian?

I'm concerned

1:51:101:51:14

about how stop and search is carried

out. So if they are going to use

1:51:141:51:21

this as a weapon towards fighting

knife crime, then it has to be done

1:51:211:51:26

reasonably and we do have to have

transparency and we do need to know

1:51:261:51:35

that the information, the statistics

on stops that they are carrying out:

1:51:351:51:38

In order to be able to hold anybody

accountable in the end?

Yes.

You

1:51:381:51:43

train Met officers. You are a former

gang member yourself. You turned

1:51:431:51:47

Home Office advisor. When can an

officer stop somebody?

It's not

1:51:471:51:52

when, it is how you do it. I myself

support stop and search, but it's

1:51:521:51:57

about how you make that person feel

when you're stopping and searching

1:51:571:52:00

them.

It is about when as well

because you have to have reasonable

1:52:001:52:04

suspicion as an officer?

Yes,

definitely. That's why we shouldn't

1:52:041:52:09

base our stuff on the intelligence

we get from the Matrix. There is a

1:52:091:52:13

lot of components from the Matrix.

What is that?

The police have a

1:52:131:52:17

database which is called the police

Matrix which tracks gang members,

1:52:171:52:21

but it doesn't track drug dealers

and other people in the community

1:52:211:52:25

that's committing crimes. So if we

are just going to look at one

1:52:251:52:29

component of the Matrix we will

continue to get it wrong. We need to

1:52:291:52:34

have the right intelligence to

target the right people that are

1:52:341:52:37

carrying knives and if we look at

the consequence of these young

1:52:371:52:41

people carrying knifes it has become

part of their uniform. A lot of

1:52:411:52:46

young people feeling pressured into

carrying knives, might welcome a

1:52:461:52:50

stop and search because it will stop

them doing the crime that they don't

1:52:501:52:53

want to do in the first place.

Some

young people might welcome the stop

1:52:531:52:58

and search if they are carrying a

knife because it will take the knife

1:52:581:53:01

from them?

Listen, I carried a

knife, yeah and I didn't want to

1:53:011:53:06

ever use a knife, does that make

sense? It was only when I was in a

1:53:061:53:10

situation that I could have used it

and I didn't use it, I gave up that

1:53:101:53:14

right. Stop and search, I'm not

against, back to how you make the

1:53:141:53:19

young people feel, when I was 13 and

14 and I committed no crime and I

1:53:191:53:23

was getting stopped and searched by

the police, it made me feel I had no

1:53:231:53:27

rights. It goes back to educating.

Tomorrow I have got a youth club and

1:53:271:53:31

I have got a person who works for

the Met coming in to discuss with

1:53:311:53:38

your people they're rights when

getting stopped and searched.

It

1:53:381:53:41

froze at the end. We got the gist of

when you said you were carrying a

1:53:411:53:46

knife. Do you agree with the

Commissioner that there is a link

1:53:461:53:49

between stop and searches, the

number of them and a reduction in

1:53:491:53:52

knife crime?

I believe that stop and

search can be used as an effective

1:53:521:53:58

tool by police officers to try and

combat knife crime. I think that is

1:53:581:54:03

key, but it's part, it should be

part of a package of measures, not

1:54:031:54:09

solely relied upon to reduce knife

crime. There are a lot of reasons

1:54:091:54:15

that will be society wise based,

peer pressures, education, what the

1:54:151:54:21

young man is talking about, which,

you know, needs to be a package of

1:54:211:54:25

measures that everyone is involved

in and multi-agency approach which

1:54:251:54:31

applies to try and reduce the amount

of knife crime there is in London.

1:54:311:54:36

I wonder if I can ask you Lillian

and Paul to explain to our audience,

1:54:361:54:41

most of whom will never have

experienced what you have this year,

1:54:411:54:44

what it is like when you lose a son

who is fatally stabbed outside his

1:54:441:54:49

school?

It's devastating. Everything

changes. Your outlook on life

1:54:491:54:57

changes. What's important changes as

well. For me, it's a daily process.

1:54:571:55:07

It's not something that you can get

over straightaway. It's not

1:55:071:55:13

something that you can even forget.

Every time you wake up, that's the

1:55:131:55:16

first thing that comes to mind.

What

about you, Paul

It's a struggle.

1:55:161:55:21

It's a struggle. Every day, it's a

struggle. You wake up every morning,

1:55:211:55:26

we have pictures of him, you know,

it has been hard. It has been hard.

1:55:261:55:32

A very hard year so far. Very hard.

What would you say to anybody

1:55:321:55:37

watching or listening on social

media later, who carries a knife?

1:55:371:55:43

What would you say to them?

I think

first of all, it's really, it's not

1:55:431:55:48

always straightforward. Someone can

carry a knife, but there is many

1:55:481:55:52

elements that lead them to take that

road in the first place and you

1:55:521:55:58

can't necessarily tell someone

something and they're going to just

1:55:581:56:00

do it, but I think education plays a

big part in that. This week, I went

1:56:001:56:08

to a mayor's summit with all heads

of education and the police as well

1:56:081:56:16

and I was quite astonished to find

out that how the safety of young

1:56:161:56:22

people is dealt with. It's not a

consistent approach throughout all

1:56:221:56:27

the different schools and I just

think that we need to get a hold of

1:56:271:56:34

things and people do need to

consider the well-being of the young

1:56:341:56:38

people and it's not just because

it's something to be ignored because

1:56:381:56:43

it's only affecting a particular

group of people.

Yes. I understand.

1:56:431:56:48

You said it's about how police

officers stop and search. How should

1:56:481:56:52

they be stopping and searching?

It's

a raising awareness of the young

1:56:521:56:56

people. Even if you don't find a

young person with a knife on the

1:56:561:57:00

occasion that you're stopping and

searching them, educate them on why

1:57:001:57:04

you're stopping and searching and

also we need to stop the cuddly

1:57:041:57:08

thing of, oh, don't carry a knife.

You need to explain what it means

1:57:081:57:11

when you carry a knife and you end

up using a knife, the ripple effect

1:57:111:57:15

that it has on the parents, and also

yourself because a lot of people are

1:57:151:57:22

walking around with a nightmare when

you are awake. Even though you might

1:57:221:57:26

have stabbed someone and got away

with it, your conscience will come

1:57:261:57:29

and deal with you in the day time.

We need to remind the young people

1:57:291:57:34

of that and the consequences of

walking around when you have

1:57:341:57:38

committed those horrific crimes.

David, an e-mail, I have to sub it.

1:57:381:57:42

"I have been a police officer for 30

years. I do not know how the police

1:57:421:57:45

would do their job and protect the

public they serve without stop and

1:57:451:57:48

search. I have recovered illegal

firearms, knives, playeded articles

1:57:481:57:52

and loads of thousands of pounds

worth of stolen goods." You are not

1:57:521:57:57

saying Janet Hills we need to stop

stop and search, you are saying what

1:57:571:58:01

briefly?

From a national BPA

prospective, we are saying we

1:58:011:58:05

support the use, the lawful use of

stop and search and again, when

1:58:051:58:10

officers using it, what reassures

people and builds trust is the fact

1:58:101:58:13

that we're asking that the body worn

cameras are worn when those

1:58:131:58:18

engagements happen so it addresses

issues if that's what is being

1:58:181:58:23

alleged.

Thank you, Paul and Janet,

thank you very much for coming on

1:58:231:58:29

the programme. Thank you for your

company. We're back tomorrow at 9am.

1:58:291:58:33

Have

1:58:331:58:33

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