Browse content similar to 07/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9am,
I'm Victoria Derbyshire. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:10 | |
Welcome to the programme. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:11 | |
This morning... | 0:00:11 | 0:00:12 | |
The controversial policy
of stop and search - | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
is it an important measure
in tackling knife crime or does it | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
just lead to alienation
of the black community? | 0:00:18 | 0:00:28 | |
Your behaviour, how you work on your
bike, stay still. I am allowed to | 0:00:28 | 0:00:37 | |
film. I was given an apology for
what happened and I was invited to | 0:00:37 | 0:00:44 | |
go out on patrol with their offices
to see how they use stop and search | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
powers. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:50 | |
Our full report in 15
minutes and really keen | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
to hear your experiences too. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
What effect did it have on you? | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
Plus, a woman seeking
what is thought to be the UK's first | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
crowdfunded private rape prosecution
tells this programme she hopes | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
to lead the way for those
let down by the courts. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:09 | |
Emily Hunt has waived her right
to anonymity to talk | 0:01:09 | 0:01:11 | |
to this programme. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:12 | |
Her full interview before 11. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
Plus, Theresa May is currently
leading a party engulfed | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
by harassment scandals,
with a Foreign Secretary who's just | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
made a serious blunder
and an International Development | 0:01:19 | 0:01:23 | |
Secretary who held talks in Israel
without telling anyone about them. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:26 | |
We'll look at what all this
means for her leadeship. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:27 | |
Hello, welcome to the programme. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
We're live until 11am this morning. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
Do get in touch on all the stories
we're talking about this morning. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:47 | |
Use the hashtag #Victorialive,
and if you text, you will be charged | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
at the standard network rate. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
Tell us if you have been stopped and
searched by the police. What | 0:01:52 | 0:01:56 | |
happened? Why were you told you were
being searched? Let me know. You can | 0:01:56 | 0:02:01 | |
send me an e-mail. All of the
details on the screen. Good morning. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:08 | |
Our top story today... | 0:02:08 | 0:02:09 | |
Leaked documents
known as the Paradise | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
Papers that have been analysed
by the BBC's Panorama programme | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
and the International Consortium
of Investigative Journalists reveal | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
that Apple moved its profits
to Jersey after a tax loophole | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
in Ireland was closed. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:23 | |
The arrangement isn't illegal
but means the technology giant saves | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
billions in corporation tax. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:27 | |
Apple says it remains
the world's largest taxpayer. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
The files also show Formula 1 world
champion Lewis Hamilton avoided tax | 0:02:30 | 0:02:36 | |
on a luxury jet he purchased
by importing it to the Isle of Man. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:39 | |
Our economics correspondent,
Andy Verity, has more. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
COMMENTATOR: Hamilton
is world champion... | 0:02:41 | 0:02:45 | |
Five years ago, Lewis Hamilton
bought his own luxury jet | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
worth £16.5 million. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:49 | |
It was something he'd always wanted. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
This is your plane. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
If I get a plane, I'm
going to pimp it out? | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
Paint it red, yeah? | 0:02:59 | 0:03:00 | |
Exactly. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:02 | |
In January, 2013, the Formula 1
champion landed his new private | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
plane at the Isle of Man's airport,
importing it there. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:09 | |
Isle of Man customs officials
met him at 6:15am to finalise | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
the paperwork and sign off on a VAT
refund of £3.3 million. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:19 | |
I can't believe I have my own plane
still, after all these years. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:24 | |
Under EU rules, you're only meant
to get a refund if the jet's used | 0:03:24 | 0:03:28 | |
for commercial purposes,
but the documents suggest Hamilton | 0:03:28 | 0:03:33 | |
was planning to spend a third
of his flying time on personal use, | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
and he's not alone. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:37 | |
The leaks also show the Isle of Man
paid £790 million in VAT refunds | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
to jet-leasing companies. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
If they're using it for private
purposes, the fact that all this | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
money is being refunded
is quite shocking. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:51 | |
You should not be getting VAT back
if it's private usage | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
and you're getting VAT back. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:54 | |
Mr Hamilton's lawyer said
the arrangement was lawful. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
The documents also reveal how
the iPhone maker Apple used | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
a British Crown dependency
to keep its tax bill down. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
We pay all the taxes we owe,
every single dollar. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:10 | |
We not only comply with
the laws, but we comply | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
with the spirit of the laws. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
We don't depend on tax gimmicks. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
In 2014, Ireland announced
it would ban companies | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
with no tax residency. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
That meant Apple needed a tax
residency for its lucrative | 0:04:22 | 0:04:27 | |
Irish subsidiaries fast,
so it sent out a questionnaire | 0:04:27 | 0:04:33 | |
courting tax havens and it chose
Jersey, where its $261 billion pile | 0:04:33 | 0:04:37 | |
of cash from selling phones
and iPads is now tax resident. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
Apple said the structure hadn't
lowered its taxes and it remained | 0:04:40 | 0:04:43 | |
the world's largest taxpayer. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:44 | |
Andy Verity, BBC News. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:52 | |
In the last few minutes, a response
from the government in Jersey. They | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
say, Jersey does not want abusive
tax avoidance schemes and it expects | 0:04:56 | 0:05:02 | |
financial services providers to
abide by a voluntary code to say | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
they will not take on this business.
We are asking for all relevant | 0:05:05 | 0:05:13 | |
documents to support this action to
be investigated. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
Rebecca is in the BBC
Newsroom with a summary | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
of the rest of the day's news. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
Good morning. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
US President Donald Trump has
been greeted with full | 0:05:25 | 0:05:27 | |
ceremony in South Korea,
on the latest leg of | 0:05:27 | 0:05:29 | |
his tour of East Asia. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:30 | |
His 24-hour visit comes as tensions
remain high on the Korean peninsula. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
The White House says Mr Trump's trip
is intended to demonstrate American | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
resolve in the face of nuclear
and missile threats | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
from North Korea. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:44 | |
In the last hour, he told a news
conference they were making a lot of | 0:05:44 | 0:05:48 | |
progress on the issue of North
Korea. North Korea is a worldwide | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
threat that requires worldwide
action. We call on every responsible | 0:05:51 | 0:05:58 | |
nation, including China and Russia,
to demand that the North Korean | 0:05:58 | 0:06:03 | |
regime end its nuclear weapons and
its missile programmes and live in | 0:06:03 | 0:06:09 | |
peace, as the South Korean people
know so well, it is time to act with | 0:06:09 | 0:06:15 | |
urgency and with great
determination. The husband of a | 0:06:15 | 0:06:21 | |
British woman jailed in Iran has
said the Foreign Secretary, Boris | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
Johnson, should correct an error he
made in talking about the case. Mr | 0:06:25 | 0:06:29 | |
Johnson had told MPs Nazanin
Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been training | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
journalists. Her husband, Richard,
says she was on holiday. The legal | 0:06:33 | 0:06:38 | |
authorities in Iran have threatened
to increase the five-year sentence | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
imposed on her.
Keith Doyle reports. Nazanin | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
Zaghari-Ratcliffe was arrested with
her baby at Tehran airport last | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
year. She was charged with trying to
overthrow the government and | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
sentenced to five years in jail. She
has worked for the Thomson Reuters | 0:06:53 | 0:06:59 | |
foundation and the BBC, but insisted
this trip was for her daughter to | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
meet her grandparents and she denies
all the allegations against her. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
Diplomacy has not helped secure her
release and this comment by the | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
Foreign Secretary last week has set
her case back, according to her | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
family. She was simply teaching
people journalism, as I understand | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
it. In the last few days, she was
brought back to court and told Mr | 0:07:19 | 0:07:25 | |
Johnson's comments shed new light on
her case and proved she was not on | 0:07:25 | 0:07:29 | |
holiday. It is feared Iran may now
increase her sentence. He needs to | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
make a clear statement that she was
not working training journalists. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:38 | |
She was on holiday. She is innocent
of the association. We have made it | 0:07:38 | 0:07:43 | |
very clear for a long time, she is
not being held because of anything | 0:07:43 | 0:07:47 | |
she has done, she is not. The
Foreign Office says Boris Johnson | 0:07:47 | 0:07:56 | |
will be in touch with the Iranian
Foreign Minister to ensure his | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
comments are not misrepresented.
Victoria will be talking to the | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
husband of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe
in the next hour. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:08 | |
The Prime Minister has asked
for the ministerial code of conduct | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
to be tightened after an MP
apologised for holding secret | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
meetings with Israeli
officials during the summer. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:21 | |
Priti Patel - the International
Development Secretary - | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
apologised for not informing
the Foreign Office and suggesting | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
Boris Johnson knew in
advance of the visit. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
Labour said the "shocking" admission
warranted a Cabinet Office inquiry. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:32 | |
The Prime Minister is calling
for a new culture of respect | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
after a string of sexual harassment
claims at Westminster. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
She's been meeting leaders from all
parties to talk about improving | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
the complaints procedure. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
Theresa May's described plans
for a new grievance procedure | 0:08:41 | 0:08:51 | |
for parliamentary staff
as an important step forward. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:59 | |
The Government is being warned that
foodbanks could struggle to meet | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
demand this winter unless urgent
action is taken to improve | 0:09:02 | 0:09:04 | |
Universal Credit. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:05 | |
The Trussell Trust -
which is the Uks biggest | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
foodbank operator -
says areas where Universal Credit | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
has been in place for six months
have seen a 30% increase in demand | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
on the previous year. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:14 | |
The Government says it's
misleading to link foodbank | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
usage to any one issue. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:25 | |
A baby Javan Gibbon has been born in
the wild, the first born to parents | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
rescued from the pet trade. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
Victoria Gill reports. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
In this protected rainforest
in Indonesia, conservationists | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
introduced me to a very special
family. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
These are Javan gibbons. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:44 | |
They were released here by a team
who rescued them from the pet trade. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:48 | |
Now they have settled
into their new home | 0:09:48 | 0:09:50 | |
and have just had a baby. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:51 | |
That six-month-old baby is the first
baby Javan gibbon to be born | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
in the wild from rehabilitated
and rereleased parents. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
Both parents started their lives
in cages in the pet trade. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
Now they're living wild. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
There are a family. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
But some gibbons are not so lucky. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
They are still sometimes taken
from the wild and sold as pets. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:16 | |
Researchers say the trade is now
happening more online, | 0:10:16 | 0:10:19 | |
sometimes on social media. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:20 | |
We found this video of a gibbon
for sale on Facebook. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
And British researchers
who are studying the pet trade | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
showed me videos and pictures posted
by Indonesian pet shops including | 0:10:26 | 0:10:32 | |
this one of a baby Javan gibbon. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
It's illegal to sell
these endangered animals. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
And gibbons are not the only
type of ape affected. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:43 | |
These baby orangutans
were also rescued and are now | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
being cared for at a sanctuary. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
Apes are very intelligent. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:49 | |
Being taken from their family
to be someone's pet | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
is frightening for them. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
He was found in Jakarta in a bus
in a postal package. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
Someone was posting her? | 0:10:57 | 0:10:58 | |
Exactly, yes. | 0:10:58 | 0:10:59 | |
It's horrific that
this is happening. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:03 | |
When they found her,
she was traumatised. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:09 | |
It was really difficult
for us to get her going. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
These youngsters are now learning
to live in the trees so they can one | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
day go back to the forest. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
Facebook told us they had removed
the video we found and they said | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
they wanted to help tackle
the illegal online trade | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
in protected wildlife. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:23 | |
Conservationists here want to fight
the trade too and they want to bring | 0:11:23 | 0:11:26 | |
more of these gibbons out of cages
and back into the wild | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
where they belong. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:36 | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC
News - more at 9.30. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
Let's get some sport. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:44 | |
West Ham have a new manager. Why
have they hired David Moyes? They | 0:11:44 | 0:11:49 | |
are looking for a safe pair of hands
and someone they believe can turn | 0:11:49 | 0:11:54 | |
around their Premier League season.
They have only won two matches, down | 0:11:54 | 0:11:58 | |
in the relegation zone, and they
have said in a statement saying they | 0:11:58 | 0:12:02 | |
have appointed David Moyes, they are
looking for someone with long | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
Premier League experience who can
bring a steady head to the job. They | 0:12:05 | 0:12:10 | |
believe David Moyes is the right man
for the job. Negotiations seem to | 0:12:10 | 0:12:15 | |
have progressed pretty smoothly
yesterday after they sacked Slaven | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
Bilic as their boss, so they have
got the former Everton, Manchester | 0:12:19 | 0:12:25 | |
United and Sunderland man in on a
two and a half year contract with a | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
break clause at the end of the
season. They will be waiting to see | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
whether he can turn the season
around. It is thought he will start | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
with training this afternoon and he
has already posted a video on West | 0:12:35 | 0:12:39 | |
Ham's Twitter feed | 0:12:39 | 0:12:40 | |
talking about how much he is looking
forward to the job. I am really | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
looking forward to meeting the
supporters, being in the stadium | 0:12:43 | 0:12:47 | |
with | 0:12:47 | 0:12:56 | |
them, looking forward to seeing them
get right behind the team and my | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
team also. We need the support, we
need everybody with us. It is a big | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
job we have in hand now. I am sure
with everybody together, we can get | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
the right results between now and
the end of the season. By the looks | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
of the video, they may have had
David Moyes in the wings for some | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
time before they sacked Slaven
Bilic! Slaven Bilic said he was | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
expecting it, no hard feelings. His
friend Ian Wright said he was | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
pleased for Slaven Bilic because
just being one game away from losing | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
his job for the last however long it
has taken a toll on his mental | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
health. Probably the best thing for
him. As a friend, I know him very | 0:13:29 | 0:13:34 | |
well, I am actually pleased. Pleased
for him knowing him and what he has | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
been going through the last couple
of years especially, especially | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
since the new stadium and everything
like that. I think for himself and | 0:13:41 | 0:13:46 | |
his health, he needs a break from
it. You cannot work like that. You | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
are always a couple of games from
the sack. I am just pleased now for | 0:13:51 | 0:13:58 | |
his sake that he can get a break
from it and get on with it. West Ham | 0:13:58 | 0:14:03 | |
fans as well pretty pleased to see
the back Slaven Bilic. But not that | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
excited about the arrival of David
Moyes. One online poll, 90% said | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
they would prefer to see a much more
progressive manager but it may | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
sweeten the pill for them if he
brings in Stuart Pearce as his | 0:14:15 | 0:14:19 | |
number two. Very popular figure at
West Ham and among the fans as well. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:23 | |
Perhaps we will see him as part of
David Moyes' team and of course, if | 0:14:23 | 0:14:29 | |
David Moyes can turn the season
around, perhaps they will feel more | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
positive about him. Stuart Pearce,
he would inspire some of the | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
players, I think. Again on Twitter,
loads of West Ham fans saying, how | 0:14:36 | 0:14:43 | |
is David Moyes the right man when he
took down Sunderland? Other saying | 0:14:43 | 0:14:47 | |
that no one could have kept
Sunderland up. Cricket, build up to | 0:14:47 | 0:14:51 | |
the Ashes, tricky for the England
team, another blow? Another big name | 0:14:51 | 0:14:57 | |
out of England's ashes squad, the
seam bowler Steven Finn, a tear to | 0:14:57 | 0:15:03 | |
the cartilage in his knee that he
picked up in training. Travelled out | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
to Australia, got the injury, it
just seems extra cruel. He will fly | 0:15:07 | 0:15:13 | |
UK in the 48 hours and he will see a
specialist to ascertain whether he | 0:15:13 | 0:15:20 | |
needs an operation. They already
without Ben Stokes after the | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
incident outside a Bristol
nightclub. Now Steven Finn missing | 0:15:23 | 0:15:29 | |
as well. Pessimists owing England
are staring down the barrel of an | 0:15:29 | 0:15:34 | |
ashes whitewash. Thank you. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:44 | |
If you're black - you're eight times
more likely to be stopped | 0:15:45 | 0:15:49 | |
and searched by a police officer
than any other ethnic group. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:55 | |
Although it has been used around
300,000 times across England | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
and Wales in the past year,
only 17% of those lead | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
to an actual arrest. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:01 | |
For innocent people being stopped
in the street can be | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
scary and intimidating
and for some, it can lead | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
to distrust of police officers. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:15 | |
The country's biggest force,
the Metropolitan Police, | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
say its vital to reduce knife crime. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
21 teenagers have been
stabbed to death in london | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
21 teenagers have been
stabbed to death in London | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
alone so far this year. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:28 | |
Our reporter Noel Phillips
was stopped and searched twice | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
within a few months. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
After he complained about his
treatment the Met apologised. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
Here's a film he made about it. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
I'm sure the officer
has explained to you, | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
you're being searched
because there's been | 0:16:39 | 0:16:40 | |
an incident where someone has
produced a flick knife. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:47 | |
A glimpse into one of
the police's most controversial | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
powers, stop and search. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
I think it is down to how
you dress and your race. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
I wouldn't blanket so we are looking
to stop more black people | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
or young black men. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:57 | |
Your behaviour, on your bike... | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
I've been stopped and searched twice
in the last few months. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
Stay still. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:10 | |
We also hear claims about officers
abusing their powers. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
I've seen many police officers stop
people that I would be can consider | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
to be based on their racial
prejudices because of | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
the colour of their skin. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:19 | |
I think it is a really useful tool
when properly targeted, | 0:17:19 | 0:17:29 | |
when properly focused
when there are good grounds. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
But that's not always the case give
people like me who have been | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
on the receiving end
of being stopped and searched, | 0:17:38 | 0:17:40 | |
can often leave you feeling
victimised or, in some cases, | 0:17:40 | 0:17:47 | |
like me who have been
on the receiving end up | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
According to Home Office figures, if
you are black you are eight times | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
more likely to be stopped and
searched compared to any other | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
ethnic group.
I have explained it to you though. I | 0:18:04 | 0:18:10 | |
have been stopped over 125 times in
my lifetime. Ken was stopped at the | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
age of 17. He is a youth mentor. It
made me an angry man. It made me see | 0:18:15 | 0:18:22 | |
the police as the enemy. I made a
mistake, but it doesn't mean that | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
you young men have to make the same
mistake that I have made. How can | 0:18:26 | 0:18:34 | |
the police stop and searching? The
way they can stop the police | 0:18:34 | 0:18:39 | |
stopping us unnecessarily is by
holding them to account. Just | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
because you have got stop and search
it doesn't mean you have done | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
anything bad. The police have a job
to do. There are bad guys out there? | 0:18:46 | 0:18:51 | |
I accept that stop and search is one
of the tools in the armour of the | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
police to be used. Since stop and
search came out of a racist law, it | 0:18:55 | 0:19:01 | |
is not surprising 40 years on, we
are still getting this | 0:19:01 | 0:19:06 | |
disproportionality that's still
here. A quarter of a century ago, | 0:19:06 | 0:19:11 | |
riots in Brixton led to the end of
the laws which allowed police to | 0:19:11 | 0:19:17 | |
stop and arrest anyone on suspicion,
but it was widely believed it was | 0:19:17 | 0:19:21 | |
used by officers to harass young
black men and opinion is divided as | 0:19:21 | 0:19:26 | |
to whether much has changed since
then. The amount of times I see | 0:19:26 | 0:19:31 | |
black young guys going from school
and getting stopped and searched is | 0:19:31 | 0:19:35 | |
just frustrating. Barry is 14 and
says his first contact with the | 0:19:35 | 0:19:39 | |
police was when he was searched on
his way home from school six months | 0:19:39 | 0:19:43 | |
ago. I was about to go home. I was
playing with my keys. I was feeling | 0:19:43 | 0:19:51 | |
bored and I accidentally dropped my
keys near the police station and | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
then some police they came over.
They said because at the time I had | 0:19:55 | 0:20:01 | |
a bag as well. So, they said can you | 0:20:01 | 0:20:14 | |
They said because at the time I had
a bag as well. So, they said can you | 0:20:14 | 0:20:14 | |
empty your bag | 0:20:14 | 0:20:24 | |
I've been stopped and searched once
when I was 12 last year | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
I was on my way to training
and I was at the bus stop waiting | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
for my bus and two police officers
approached me and they said I match | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
the description of something
that had happened. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:43 | |
I've been stopped a lot of times
when I was young. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:45 | |
Whilst they've never been
in trouble with the police, | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
26-year-old Ahmed has. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:49 | |
He said he used to be
part of a gang. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:51 | |
Do you think you were stopped
because of the way you looked | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
or maybe because of
what you were wearing? | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
The way I looked
on what I was wearing. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
My colour was the main
thing I got stopped for. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
Do you think it's really
just down to that? | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
Yes. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:04 | |
Why? | 0:21:04 | 0:21:05 | |
I've been stopped over at 70 times
because of my colour. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
Even now I do something good
for the community | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
I still get stopped. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:16 | |
Don't you accept the police
have a job to do and they have | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
to try and keep people safe? | 0:21:19 | 0:21:20 | |
Yes, they have a job
to do and I understand, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
but there's better things to do
than search me. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
What do you think the police can do
to make stop and search more | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
effective so people like you,
who aren't criminals, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
who aren't doing bad things,
aren't being stopped? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:32 | |
Do their job properly. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:33 | |
Simple as that. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:34 | |
Do your job properly. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:35 | |
Know people's rights. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:36 | |
Do your job properly. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:41 | |
I also know what it feels like to be
stopped and searched. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:46 | |
In fact, the most recent is at this
very spot where I'm standing. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
Now I remember four plain-clothed
officers approaching me. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
It was all so sudden,
all so unexpected. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
They asked me what I was doing. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
I pointed in that direction and said
I was on my way home, | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
and yet I was still searched. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
There's been drug
dealing on this estate. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:09 | |
We've seen people stop,
they run away from us. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:11 | |
We've arrested people for cannabis. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:14 | |
Your behaviour, how
you was on your bike,... | 0:22:14 | 0:22:19 | |
Sorry, I'm allowed to film. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:20 | |
Stay still. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
At that point, the officer
took my phone and stopped me | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
recording what was happening
and I was detained and searched. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:30 | |
We're going to put some gloves on. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:35 | |
OK. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
The Misuse of Drugs Act power
was used to search me, | 0:22:38 | 0:22:40 | |
that's despite me never having used
drugs in my entire life. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
Can you stay still? | 0:22:43 | 0:22:44 | |
I am, I am. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
After challenging the police
on their grounds for searching me | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
I was given an apology
for what happened and was invited | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
to go out on patrol
with their officers to see how | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
they use their stop
and search powers. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
This month in Hackney through stop
and search, we've removed | 0:22:58 | 0:23:00 | |
eight weapons off people. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:02 | |
We've actually taken as weapons off
the street and that prevents them | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
being used in what could be murders. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:07 | |
Secondly, if people know
that the police are out there making | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
use of stop and search powers,
it acts as a deterrent | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
for people to carry weapons. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
Within minutes we receive reports
of a man threatening to stab a woman | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
with a knife in a nearby park
in Hackney, North London. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
Received. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
Do we know what sort
of knife it was? | 0:23:24 | 0:23:29 | |
All we've got is this park,
so we're just going to see if anyone | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
that matches the description. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
You're looking for a tall,
slim-build black man | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
with a salt-and-pepper moustache. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
Would there be any doubt
in your mind if you do see this man | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
whether he needs to be
searched or not? | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
It's about having a suspicion. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:49 | |
So at the moment, with
the information that I've got, | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
if we found someone
that closely matches | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
that description, yes,
I have a suspicion he might be | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
carrying a knife. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:56 | |
Officers were unable to locate
the man who reportedly had a knife | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
but across the UK knife
crime is on the rise, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
especially in London. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:09 | |
For all the crit sisms about stop
and search, the Met point to the | 0:24:09 | 0:24:15 | |
statistics, 150 people were stabbed
in the capital and last year that | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
figure rose to more than 1200. The
figures I know would suggest that | 0:24:19 | 0:24:24 | |
the majority of those involved in
knife | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
the majority of those involved in
knife crime are young, They are | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
almost all men. There is a high
proportion that are black and ethnic | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
minority than not. We look at maybe
some of our activities to target | 0:24:33 | 0:24:38 | |
gang members and you look at the
make up of those gangs. That could | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
be another reason or the
demographics of any particular part | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
of London. The person with a knife
punched the informant in the face. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:50 | |
So we are going to a call to a shop
down in the south of borrow. There | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
is a group of youths in the shop and
the shop owner asked them to move. | 0:24:55 | 0:25:01 | |
One of them pulled a knife out and
threatened him with it. It is a | 0:25:01 | 0:25:06 | |
white, 13 to 14-year-old, grey
tracksuit, President Hollande hair. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
So we have got, I think, we have got
three units going to this call and | 0:25:09 | 0:25:14 | |
CCTV looking. The officer has
explained you are being searched | 0:25:14 | 0:25:23 | |
because someone produced a flick
knife. Officers stop a 16-year-old | 0:25:23 | 0:25:28 | |
who matches the description. But his
15-year-old friend who, is black, is | 0:25:28 | 0:25:37 | |
being arrested. Possession of Class
B drugs. We are searching under | 0:25:37 | 0:25:44 | |
PACE. A flick knife is a weapon, but
we found drugs on this boy. Sew has | 0:25:44 | 0:25:49 | |
been arrested. The other one hasn't
got a knife and nothing illegal. We | 0:25:49 | 0:25:53 | |
will get his details and he will be
on his way. Now these officers are | 0:25:53 | 0:25:57 | |
keen for us to see that the Met
wants to change the public's | 0:25:57 | 0:26:01 | |
opinions about stop and search, for
decades the force faced accusations | 0:26:01 | 0:26:07 | |
of racism, but for there to be
change, there has to be trust. Do | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
you think black people have to just
accept the fact that they will be | 0:26:10 | 0:26:14 | |
stopped and searched because it's an
effective way in tackling knife and | 0:26:14 | 0:26:19 | |
violent crime? We are not looking to
blanket search young men. We are | 0:26:19 | 0:26:24 | |
looking to search gang members and
people who matches the suspect. If | 0:26:24 | 0:26:31 | |
we see someone that matches that
description, they will be searched. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
As was the case today. That's what
we operate on. We don't generalise | 0:26:34 | 0:26:39 | |
and we don't blank sercht people
based on their gender or age or | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
ethnicity. It is not a case that all
black men have to accept they will | 0:26:43 | 0:26:48 | |
be searched. Adam spent time on the
Met Police. He says he witnessed | 0:26:48 | 0:26:59 | |
officers deliberately searching
young black men. It permeates the he | 0:26:59 | 0:27:03 | |
entire police service at every
level. Ultimately, racism within the | 0:27:03 | 0:27:07 | |
Metropolitan Police is a massive
issue. That infects every, it | 0:27:07 | 0:27:14 | |
infects the police at every level.
What were some of the things you | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
saw? I have seen many police
officers stop people that what I | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
consider would be based on their
racial prejudices because of the | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
colour of their skin and even when
we were training to be police | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
officers, I remember that we had one
particular trainer who was very open | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
in his views. His words were if we
rock up to a call when there is a | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
group of eight or nine young plaque
guys wearing hoodies, they are going | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
to get spun and turned over. My
response was why? In this scenario | 0:27:40 | 0:27:46 | |
that you've sort of concocted, there
is no other information other than | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
the fact that they are young, black
men, and that they are wearing | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
hoodies and that is the only factor
in your decision making in that they | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
are going to get searched. Do I
believe that officers are using | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
their pour we are inappropriately?
The majority I would say are not | 0:28:02 | 0:28:04 | |
doing that. We act based on the
information we receive and the | 0:28:04 | 0:28:09 | |
individual circumstances we are
responding to. You accept there is a | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
small number of officers who are
misusing their powers and it is as a | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
result of that, that's causing
problems between the police and | 0:28:16 | 0:28:20 | |
certain ethnic communities, isn't it
I am not saying they are misusing | 0:28:20 | 0:28:23 | |
their powers. There were complaints
that have been made that have been | 0:28:23 | 0:28:26 | |
investigated and maybe it has been
found that there weren't the grounds | 0:28:26 | 0:28:29 | |
there for the search, but we are a
massive organisation and some people | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
will make mistakes or get it wrong.
In the last year the Metropolitan | 0:28:33 | 0:28:38 | |
Police carried out nearly 136 stop
and searches. Down from 152,000 the | 0:28:38 | 0:28:43 | |
year before. The Home Office tells
us stop and search reforms are | 0:28:43 | 0:28:48 | |
working, but are all police forces
across the country using the tactic | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
fairly? Nick is a former
Leicestershire Police chief | 0:28:52 | 0:28:56 | |
inspector. I think there are still
police officers across the country | 0:28:56 | 0:29:00 | |
who are misusing their powers, yes.
It's less than it was three or four, | 0:29:00 | 0:29:08 | |
four, five years ago. By misuse,
they haven't got the grounds to use | 0:29:08 | 0:29:13 | |
them or they are using the incorrect
power or they are using, whether it | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
is conscious or unconscious bias,
prejudice, discrimination... Since | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
he was a teenager, Nick has been
stopped and searched more than 30 | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
times whilst off duty. There will be
a lot of people watching who will | 0:29:24 | 0:29:30 | |
find it staggering that somebody
like yourself, a police inspector, | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
is being stopped and searched? Yes.
And the interesting comparison is if | 0:29:34 | 0:29:41 | |
I talk to my former colleagues and
ask them how many times they have | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
been stopped by the police, some
have never been stopped which I | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
always find amazing because I have
been stopped since I was 17 years | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
old. So I think it is the
comparison. It's like why is it me? | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
And why is it not, you know, former
colleagues, who have a different | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
skin colour to me? For many young
black men like me, our first | 0:29:59 | 0:30:08 | |
interactions with the police tend to
be to stop and search, which often | 0:30:08 | 0:30:14 | |
leads to no further action because
of a lack of evidence. The police | 0:30:14 | 0:30:16 | |
say they make no apology when it
comes to saving lives. I have seen | 0:30:16 | 0:30:23 | |
numerous stabbings on the street and
someone has been walking around | 0:30:23 | 0:30:28 | |
carrying a weapon on that person for
that to happen. If we had stopped | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
and searched them before that, it
could have been avoided. This is why | 0:30:32 | 0:30:37 | |
it is incredibly important and it
does save lives. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:42 | |
The Home Office told us no one
should be stopped because of their | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
race or ethnicity. They will have to
explain disparities in the areas | 0:30:45 | 0:30:54 | |
because if it is misused, it can
damage policing. Let me read you | 0:30:54 | 0:31:00 | |
these messages. This is from someone
who has not left their name, I grew | 0:31:00 | 0:31:04 | |
up wanting to be a detective, but
being mixed race in south London, I | 0:31:04 | 0:31:09 | |
was not educated about my rights and
I was targeted by the police | 0:31:09 | 0:31:14 | |
constantly from 14. Understandably
savvy job to do, but when you are | 0:31:14 | 0:31:17 | |
stopped and searched multiple times
before you have omitted a crime, you | 0:31:17 | 0:31:23 | |
are put in a box. -- I understand
the police have a job to do. I am a | 0:31:23 | 0:31:28 | |
changed man now, after committing
crime for several years, but I whiz | 0:31:28 | 0:31:33 | |
wonder, what if I had never been
searched all of those times? -- I | 0:31:33 | 0:31:37 | |
always wonder. A metropolitan
officer says, I will not be watching | 0:31:37 | 0:31:43 | |
your programme again. Stop and
search certainly does not target | 0:31:43 | 0:31:46 | |
particular groups of people. Another
says, the conclusion of all of the | 0:31:46 | 0:31:51 | |
black men and boys on your programme
is the Met Police are racially | 0:31:51 | 0:31:55 | |
profile in black people. Another
says, stopping people based on the | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
way they walk, dress, speak and
indeed there ethnicity or skin | 0:31:59 | 0:32:05 | |
colour is not law enforcement. We
will talk to the father of a teenage | 0:32:05 | 0:32:11 | |
boy who was fatally stabbed in
London earlier this year outside his | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
school. He believes in stop and
search and says it must continue. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:21 | |
Still to come... Allegations of
harassment at Westminster continue | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
to emerge, we ask politicians
whether what is being suggested by | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
Mrs May and other party leaders is
going to be enough to tackle it. We | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
will be meeting Pride of Britain
Fundraiser of the Year Jake who lost | 0:32:32 | 0:32:42 | |
his wife to cancer and he is hoping
to realise their dream of having a | 0:32:42 | 0:32:46 | |
child through a surrogate. Time for
the latest news. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:56 | |
Leaked documents known
as the Paradise Papers reveal that | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
Apple moved its profits to Jersey
after a tax loophole | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
in Ireland was closed. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
The arrangement isn't illegal
but means the technology giant saves | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
billions in corporation tax. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
Apple says it remains
the world's largest taxpayer. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:15 | |
The government in Jersey says it
will be investigated. | 0:33:15 | 0:33:22 | |
The files also show Formula 1 world
champion Lewis Hamilton avoided tax | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
on a £16.5 million luxury jet
by importing it into | 0:33:25 | 0:33:28 | |
the Isle of Man in 2013. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:29 | |
His lawyers say the
process was lawful. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:33 | |
Donald Trump has been greeted with
full ceremony in South Korea on the | 0:33:33 | 0:33:36 | |
latest leg of his tour of East Asia.
His 24-hour visit comes as tensions | 0:33:36 | 0:33:41 | |
remain high on the Korean
peninsular. Speaking at a news | 0:33:41 | 0:33:46 | |
conference in Seoul, President Trump
said he believed his policies | 0:33:46 | 0:33:50 | |
towards North Korea were beginning
to have some impact and he suggested | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
the North may be persuaded to
negotiate. The husband of a British | 0:33:54 | 0:33:59 | |
woman jailed in Iran has said the
Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
should correct an error he made when
he was talking about the case. Mr | 0:34:02 | 0:34:07 | |
Johnson told MPs that Nazanin
Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been training | 0:34:07 | 0:34:13 | |
journalists. Her husband, Richard,
says she was on holiday. The legal | 0:34:13 | 0:34:18 | |
authorities in Iran have threatened
to increase the five-year sentence | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
imposed on her. The Prime Minister
has asked for the ministerial code | 0:34:21 | 0:34:26 | |
of conduct to be tightened after an
MP apologised for holding secret | 0:34:26 | 0:34:32 | |
meetings with Israeli officials in
the summer. Priti Patel, the | 0:34:32 | 0:34:38 | |
International Development Secretary,
apologised for not informing the | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
Foreign Office and suggesting Boris
Johnson knew in advance of the | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
visit. Labour said the shocking
admission warranted a Cabinet Office | 0:34:44 | 0:34:50 | |
inquiry. That is the summary of the
latest BBC News. Good morning. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:56 | |
Welcome to the programme. Sport
again | 0:34:56 | 0:34:57 | |
. David Moyes is the new West Ham
boss. They sacked Slaven Bilic | 0:35:01 | 0:35:06 | |
yesterday. He has signed a two and a
half year deal. His job is to keep | 0:35:06 | 0:35:11 | |
West Ham in the Premier League.
Steven Finn is that of England's | 0:35:11 | 0:35:16 | |
Ashes tour after tearing cartilage
in his knee. The first Test starts | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
on the 21st of the month. England
already without Ben Stokes. The race | 0:35:21 | 0:35:27 | |
that stops a nation, the Melbourne
cup in Australia, incredible finish | 0:35:27 | 0:35:31 | |
as the 14-1 shot overtook in the
closing sprint. The trainer of the | 0:35:31 | 0:35:38 | |
winning horse was Joseph O'Brien.
The trainer of the horse he beat to | 0:35:38 | 0:35:43 | |
the line was his father, the best in
the world. Passing from one | 0:35:43 | 0:35:47 | |
generation to the next! | 0:35:47 | 0:35:51 | |
Westminster party leaders have
agreed to introduce a new grievance | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
procedure for staff to deal
with misconduct allegations. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
It follows a week which has seen
allegation after allegation | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
of sexual harassment and assault
for a number of MPs. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
This wave of accusations and
investigations began last month with | 0:36:07 | 0:36:12 | |
the suspension of Labour MP Jared
O'Mara over claims he used | 0:36:12 | 0:36:17 | |
misogynistic and homophobic
comments. Four days later, the | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
international Trade Minister, Mark
Garnier, is investigated by the | 0:36:20 | 0:36:24 | |
Cabinet Office after admitting
asking his secretary to buy sex | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
toys. Then came claims in the Times
the man effectively Theresa May's | 0:36:28 | 0:36:34 | |
deputy, Damian Green, fleetingly
touched a younger woman's me and | 0:36:34 | 0:36:38 | |
sent her a suggestive text. The
Cabinet Office launches an | 0:36:38 | 0:36:42 | |
investigation. The first Secretary
of State calls the claims are untrue | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
and deeply hurtful. The Labour Party
launch an investigation after a | 0:36:46 | 0:36:51 | |
well-known activist said she had
been raped at a party event in 2011 | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
and she was discouraged from
reporting the attack. A day later, | 0:36:55 | 0:37:01 | |
big-name resignation, Sir Michael
Fallon quits as Defence Secretary | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
saying his behaviour in the past may
have fallen short of standards | 0:37:03 | 0:37:07 | |
expected. I have behaved in the past
clearly in a way that has | 0:37:07 | 0:37:13 | |
occasionally been below the
standards we require of the Armed | 0:37:13 | 0:37:17 | |
Forces. I do not think it is right
for me to go on as Defence | 0:37:17 | 0:37:21 | |
Secretary, expecting the very
highest standards of our servicemen | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
and women and failing to meet them
myself. Last Thursday evening, | 0:37:24 | 0:37:29 | |
Labour suspended the MP Kelvin
Hopkins over allegations of | 0:37:29 | 0:37:33 | |
inappropriate conduct made by a
party activist which he | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
categorically denies. Friday, it is
the turn of another Labour MP to | 0:37:37 | 0:37:42 | |
deny allegations, Clive Lewis is
being investigated over claims he | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
groped a woman at the conference. I
do not as a rule at Labour Party | 0:37:45 | 0:37:53 | |
conference grope people's bottoms.
It is not how I roll, not what I do. | 0:37:53 | 0:38:02 | |
Is the person mistaken? Have I given
them a hug and this has been | 0:38:02 | 0:38:08 | |
misinterpreted? I don't know. All I
know is I would not deliberately do | 0:38:08 | 0:38:12 | |
that. Tory MP Charlie Elphicke is
suspended a day later after serious | 0:38:12 | 0:38:18 | |
allegations are referred to police.
He denies any wrongdoing. Sunday, | 0:38:18 | 0:38:23 | |
the investigation into Damian Green
widens. Pornography was found on one | 0:38:23 | 0:38:27 | |
of his parliamentary computers in
2008. He describes the claims as | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
false. Conservative MP then resigns
as government whip after being | 0:38:32 | 0:38:39 | |
accused of making an unwanted path
at a former Olympic rower and | 0:38:39 | 0:38:44 | |
Conservative activists Alex story in
2001. Three Tory MPs are referred to | 0:38:44 | 0:38:53 | |
the party's disciplinary committee
after allegations about their | 0:38:53 | 0:38:55 | |
conduct. Daniel Potter and Daniel
Kochanski deny wrongdoing. Stephen | 0:38:55 | 0:39:01 | |
Crabb admits saying some pretty
outrageous things to a woman after | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
interviewing her for a job.
Yesterday another claim, the | 0:39:05 | 0:39:10 | |
Conservative Party activist tells
this programme she was raped by | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
someone more senior in the party but
that her complaints to the House of | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
Commons authorities were completely
ignored. I remember the attack | 0:39:17 | 0:39:22 | |
during the attack, I remember the
room disappearing around me and | 0:39:22 | 0:39:28 | |
thinking I was going to die. When he
left the next day, I was at the | 0:39:28 | 0:39:33 | |
police station within an hour. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:39 | |
We can speak now to Ian Blackford,
leader of the SNP in the House | 0:39:39 | 0:39:43 | |
of Commons in Westminster
who was at the meeting | 0:39:43 | 0:39:45 | |
yesterday, the Labour
MP, Catherine West, | 0:39:45 | 0:39:53 | |
who was elected
in 2015, and Alistair Carmichael, | 0:39:53 | 0:39:55 | |
the Liberal Democrat Chief Whip. | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
He is on his way to the Millbank
Studios. Ian Blackford, do you think | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
the outcome of the meeting was
enough? We have agreed we will set | 0:40:02 | 0:40:08 | |
up a working group with that aim we
have a grievance procedures in place | 0:40:08 | 0:40:11 | |
by the beginning of next year, the
outline of what will be proposed has | 0:40:11 | 0:40:15 | |
to come together by the 1st of
December. I think it is important we | 0:40:15 | 0:40:25 | |
work on a cross-party basis. We
should be under no doubt what the | 0:40:25 | 0:40:29 | |
public expects, to show leadership.
How does having a grievance | 0:40:29 | 0:40:35 | |
procedure finally in place stopped
MPs behaving so appallingly? We have | 0:40:35 | 0:40:41 | |
to set out zero tolerance of bad
behaviour, bad sexual behaviour, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:44 | |
bullion. We have to see it as a
watershed moment, leadership has to | 0:40:44 | 0:40:49 | |
be shown across the political
parties and we have to say anybody | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
behaving unacceptably, they will pay
a price, there will be consequences. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:58 | |
Anyone that comes across in
constituency offices, they will know | 0:40:58 | 0:41:04 | |
they will be protected, that they
will be encouraged to come forward | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
with any allegations of bad
behaviour and this will be taken | 0:41:07 | 0:41:11 | |
seriously. This is our one chance to
show we are serious about this, not | 0:41:11 | 0:41:16 | |
just about Parliament, it is about
behaviour right through society and | 0:41:16 | 0:41:20 | |
we have to take leadership on this
and will betide anybody that plays | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
with that. All political parties
have to accept responsibility. Are | 0:41:23 | 0:41:29 | |
you satisfied with the grievance
procedure outcome? We are in the | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
foothills because we have to then
have the working party looking at | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
the detail but it is fantastic to
see the party leaders around a table | 0:41:36 | 0:41:42 | |
speaking to each other face-to-face
rather than across the floor of the | 0:41:42 | 0:41:46 | |
Commons and also this is so shocking
and everybody is shocked by it, | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
right from the journalists who have
been subject to it from time to | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
time, right through to very serious
sexual assault allegations which are | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
being looked at by | 0:41:58 | 0:42:09 | |
the police. Are you confident that
people who work on the parliamentary | 0:42:10 | 0:42:12 | |
estate, whether they be researchers,
activists, lobbyists, journalists, | 0:42:12 | 0:42:14 | |
MPs, Cabinet ministers, how may step
up and behave normally, properly, | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
and with respect? They have to. Are
you confident they can? Yes. People | 0:42:16 | 0:42:24 | |
have to... Criminal activity, they
will lose their seats. It is not | 0:42:24 | 0:42:29 | |
criminal activity, just grim
behaviour. We must make it | 0:42:29 | 0:42:33 | |
absolutely clear society has to
change, the kind of issues that have | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
come to light not acceptable. This
is the opportunity for politicians | 0:42:36 | 0:42:41 | |
to take a lead and show there has to
be respect. One of the things that | 0:42:41 | 0:42:45 | |
has to come out of this is training,
for 4-star. What do you mean, | 0:42:45 | 0:42:52 | |
consent classes? -- 4-star. Consent
classes. Do you agree? So many | 0:42:52 | 0:42:59 | |
people come into Parliament from
many different walks of life, many | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
have never employed anybody, others
are HR managers, a huge gap between | 0:43:02 | 0:43:07 | |
some people coming in... Wherever
you have come from into Parliament, | 0:43:07 | 0:43:12 | |
you know not to pinch someone's
backside, do you know not to send | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
them the sexually explicit text when
they have applied for a job, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
everybody knows that. You would have
thought so, but unfortunately, some | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
have not lived by that code.
Alistair Carmichael has just joined | 0:43:25 | 0:43:28 | |
us. The Chief Whip for the Liberal
Democrats. Good morning. Yesterday | 0:43:28 | 0:43:35 | |
your party suspended an MP and
referred allegations to the police. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:39 | |
An activist claimed Lib Dem HQ
hushed up the rape complaint made | 0:43:39 | 0:43:44 | |
against a party activist. What is
this culture of wanting to push | 0:43:44 | 0:43:48 | |
things up? You said we had suspended
a Member of Parliament yesterday, | 0:43:48 | 0:43:52 | |
that is not it. The case you are
referring to, an allegation of a | 0:43:52 | 0:43:59 | |
rape was made and that was passed on
to the police. I do not think it is | 0:43:59 | 0:44:03 | |
fair to characterise that as some
sort of cover-up. Right, OK. There | 0:44:03 | 0:44:08 | |
is a desire, you have to
acknowledge... As the Chief Whip, | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
there was a desire, not just the
Chief Whip of the Lib Dems, but | 0:44:12 | 0:44:18 | |
there is a desire to protect the
party rather than show duty of care | 0:44:18 | 0:44:23 | |
to individuals? No, there is no
doubt this has been... That has | 0:44:23 | 0:44:30 | |
perhaps been the way business has
been done in the House of Commons in | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
the past and we have all in our
different parties had instances of | 0:44:33 | 0:44:38 | |
cases where it could have been done
better. I think the message that | 0:44:38 | 0:44:43 | |
came very clearly from yesterday's
meeting is that what ever has been | 0:44:43 | 0:44:47 | |
done in the past, whatever the
inadequacies of that, we have all | 0:44:47 | 0:44:51 | |
learned at different times, in my
party, very robust procedures in | 0:44:51 | 0:44:54 | |
case a couple of years ago, that the
culture has changed and people who | 0:44:54 | 0:44:59 | |
have suffered this treatment in the
past or might suffer it now, they | 0:44:59 | 0:45:05 | |
should feel able to come forward and
report it in the confidence the | 0:45:05 | 0:45:09 | |
investigation will be proper and
robust. Does that mean you are | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
saying that you do not have
information about the misdemeanours | 0:45:12 | 0:45:19 | |
of MPs that you are keeping to
yourself in order to put pressure on | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
them at some point to vote a
particular way on an issue? | 0:45:23 | 0:45:26 | |
Blackmail? Absolutely not. There has
been no time where I have ever used | 0:45:26 | 0:45:34 | |
information I have held about
somebody's misdemeanours in order to | 0:45:34 | 0:45:37 | |
get them to behave in a certain way.
That has not been the way we have | 0:45:37 | 0:45:41 | |
done business. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:45 | |
If somebody came to you and
suggested that someone senior in the | 0:45:45 | 0:45:50 | |
Liberal Democrats had sexually
harassed them. What would you do | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
with that information? There is a
process to be gone through here. In | 0:45:53 | 0:45:57 | |
the Liberal Democrats we have a
pastoral care officer whose job it | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
is to take complaints like that to
deal with them, either within the | 0:46:01 | 0:46:05 | |
party or if it involves a case of
serious criminal behaviour, they | 0:46:05 | 0:46:10 | |
have to help that person make
complaint to the person. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
-- police.
The individual should probably be | 0:46:14 | 0:46:20 | |
suspended in the meantime. Yes. If
they are a party member, they should | 0:46:20 | 0:46:29 | |
be suspended. There seems to be an
issue regarding alcohol according to | 0:46:29 | 0:46:35 | |
a come we spoke to who said she had
seen women plied with drink in the | 0:46:35 | 0:46:40 | |
Parliamentary bars and women were
treated as meat. Is that fair? Well, | 0:46:40 | 0:46:44 | |
I think some of the bars should
close. We should have strangers | 0:46:44 | 0:46:48 | |
where you can invite a um can have
constituents in for a friendly pint | 0:46:48 | 0:46:53 | |
and it is well managed that bar, but
some of the others, like the sports | 0:46:53 | 0:46:58 | |
and social, why people can't go out
of Parliament and have their drink | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
out there and then it is not a
Parliamentary problem. So just push | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
it somewhere else? Once you are out
there, you have police. You have | 0:47:04 | 0:47:08 | |
licensing regulations and so on. At
the moment... How many bars are | 0:47:08 | 0:47:14 | |
theren ot Parliamentary estate?
There are a number of bars. We have | 0:47:14 | 0:47:16 | |
to clean up our act. Do you agree,
close them all, apart from one? | 0:47:16 | 0:47:21 | |
There is an issue with sports and
social. I don't like sports and | 0:47:21 | 0:47:23 | |
social. I never go there. The
atmosphere about the place is | 0:47:23 | 0:47:27 | |
something I would question. It is
aggressive. Sorry, it is aggressive? | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
You walk in and it feels like an old
boozer. It is not a workplace. How | 0:47:31 | 0:47:36 | |
many people is there a bar in the
BBC where your people can pop down | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
for a drink after this show, have a
drink and come back to work? It is | 0:47:39 | 0:47:45 | |
not modern. Some of our audience say
take away the subsidy. I don't think | 0:47:45 | 0:47:53 | |
any Parliamentarian wants to be in a
environment where it is being | 0:47:53 | 0:47:59 | |
subsidised. Change it then. Don't
just make the point, do something. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:04 | |
That's what we did yesterday by
setting up this working group. We | 0:48:04 | 0:48:08 | |
need to move ahead quickly and we
need to make sure that we can be a | 0:48:08 | 0:48:12 | |
modern people that treats people
with respect. It has to be | 0:48:12 | 0:48:17 | |
protecting the rights of all our
members. This is the opportunity to | 0:48:17 | 0:48:20 | |
get this right and if we don't do
harks the public will judge us and | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
judge us rightly on the failure to
act in an appropriate manner. With | 0:48:23 | 0:48:27 | |
he need to make sure that people are
protected and we take a lead through | 0:48:27 | 0:48:33 | |
society. I'm told there is a sign
outside the sports bar, what happens | 0:48:33 | 0:48:40 | |
here stays here. Violators will be
shot. This goes back to the culture. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:47 | |
We want to have from what I can see
the party leaders sitting around the | 0:48:47 | 0:48:52 | |
table which they haven't done on
Northern Ireland or Brexit or any of | 0:48:52 | 0:48:55 | |
the other things which are
happening, they are doing it because | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
we have to take responsibility now.
And we have to change the culture. | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
OK. Thank you all. Thank you very
much. Catherine, Ian, and Allister. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:10 | |
Thank you. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:13 | |
Coming up: | 0:49:13 | 0:49:14 | |
We'll be talking to two people
who receive Universal Credit | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
as the Government is being warned
that foodbanks could struggle | 0:49:17 | 0:49:19 | |
to meet demand this winter
unless urgent action is taken. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:25 | |
A husband who lost his wife
to cancer is hoping to realise | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
their dream of having a child
through a surrogate. | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
Emmy Coates died in June, just 18
months after she'd been diagnosed | 0:49:33 | 0:49:36 | |
with thyroid cancer. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:39 | |
She was 31. | 0:49:39 | 0:49:45 | |
She'd blogged about her dream
of becoming a mum and said husband | 0:49:45 | 0:49:49 | |
Jake would be the
"best dad in the world". | 0:49:49 | 0:49:51 | |
They'd discovered
they were pregnant with a surrogate | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
just weeks before her death. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:54 | |
Together, Emmy and Jake had
raised over £140,000 | 0:49:54 | 0:50:00 | |
for the Royal Marsden Hospital
in London, by cycling across Europe | 0:50:00 | 0:50:09 | |
and tonight, on ITV,
you'll be able to see Jake pick | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
up his Daily Mirror Pride
of Britain Award for | 0:50:11 | 0:50:13 | |
Fundraiser of the Year. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:15 | |
She will kill me for saying it, but
there is one nurse we named our | 0:50:15 | 0:50:22 | |
tandem after called Tara Hurly who
an angel from heaven who has given | 0:50:22 | 0:50:27 | |
me sop much strength and she gave
Emmy so many smiles and so much | 0:50:27 | 0:50:33 | |
laughter and the Royal Marsden
Hospital is the most incredible | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
place and I feel very honoured...
APPLAUSE | 0:50:35 | 0:50:46 | |
Well, fi guess they just don't make
gentlemen like you anymore. No, I | 0:50:46 | 0:50:50 | |
think they broke the mould when they
made him. I just want to | 0:50:50 | 0:50:55 | |
congratulate you because you really,
you really, really, really, deserve | 0:50:55 | 0:50:59 | |
this award.
APPLAUSE | 0:50:59 | 0:51:07 | |
Thank you, Amanda. Thank you, Joan
and congratulations once again. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:15 | |
APPLAUSE
To Emmy and Jake Coates. | 0:51:15 | 0:51:29 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:51:32 | 0:51:32 | |
And Jake joins us now. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:37 | |
How are you doing? I was getting
emotional hearing you talk about it. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:42 | |
It is quite close sometimes. Of
course. I'm going to ask you about | 0:51:42 | 0:51:47 | |
Emmy and tell our audience when you
first met her? We met when we were | 0:51:47 | 0:51:52 | |
11 years old. We met 24 days to the
day we got marred kid and we went to | 0:51:52 | 0:51:59 | |
secondary school in Hereford
Cathedral. When you were 13 you | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
said, you said that she was your
lobster. What did you mean? That | 0:52:01 | 0:52:08 | |
refers to a wonderful Friends
episode where Phoebe remarks on Ross | 0:52:08 | 0:52:13 | |
and Rachel as being lobsters and
apparently lobsters mate for life. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:17 | |
So my point to that was that, you
know, we were always kind of meant | 0:52:17 | 0:52:21 | |
to be and we would always be
together. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
I mean you did split up, but then
you got back together a decade | 0:52:25 | 0:52:29 | |
later. And you knew you were
planning on proposing when you | 0:52:29 | 0:52:33 | |
discovered a lump in her neck, is
that right? Yes. So, we really | 0:52:33 | 0:52:37 | |
hadn't been back in touch very long.
We got back in touch in October | 0:52:37 | 0:52:43 | |
2015, over social media. I was in
Australia working as a doctor. I | 0:52:43 | 0:52:47 | |
came back to visit at Christmas and
she came out in the February half | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
term and over that time, I was so
certain that this was exactly what I | 0:52:51 | 0:52:54 | |
wanted and you know, I thought it
would be the best thing, that I | 0:52:54 | 0:52:58 | |
started planning the proposal,
buying the ring and I planned to | 0:52:58 | 0:53:02 | |
propose in March, in the Philippines
on holiday, a wonderful holiday, but | 0:53:02 | 0:53:05 | |
when she came out in February, I
have got this muscle in my neck | 0:53:05 | 0:53:11 | |
would you mind giving me a massage
and it was just straightaway, she | 0:53:11 | 0:53:16 | |
had these very rubbery kind of bunch
of grape limpth nodes innier neck, | 0:53:16 | 0:53:22 | |
you are taught at med school, they
are a sign of badness. It doesn't | 0:53:22 | 0:53:29 | |
mean thyroid cancer, but it often
means something nasty. You were | 0:53:29 | 0:53:37 | |
worried straightaway. Your concerns
were right. How shocking was it for | 0:53:37 | 0:53:41 | |
you both to receive that news? Yeah,
that was pretty awful. I sent, I | 0:53:41 | 0:53:46 | |
said go, back have a neck biopsy.
She went back and they rushed it and | 0:53:46 | 0:53:51 | |
did it within a couple of weeks. The
results came back but because I knew | 0:53:51 | 0:53:57 | |
it had spread to the limpth nodes, I
knew it was bad. I flew back the | 0:53:57 | 0:54:04 | |
moment she got the diagnosis and it
was only, it was very quick from | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
then on really. She had been waiting
a long time. She had been having | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
symptom for a long time, almost two
years, but once we got that, jumped | 0:54:10 | 0:54:14 | |
that hurdle, everything just kind of
fell like dominoes and we were | 0:54:14 | 0:54:18 | |
referred to the Royal Marsden very
quickly and I can't even begin | 0:54:18 | 0:54:23 | |
actually, it breaks my heart now
thinking about those days when she | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
was diagnosed because it was a
really tough time. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:29 | |
One of the things that stands out
and there are many about Emmy is | 0:54:29 | 0:54:32 | |
that she, it seemed like she wanted
to confront it. Yes. And with the | 0:54:32 | 0:54:36 | |
time that was left, get on with it
and live life? Yeah. I think that | 0:54:36 | 0:54:40 | |
was it. I think that's the thing,
that's garnered the most support | 0:54:40 | 0:54:46 | |
from people and the public, one
thing was raising awareness of cans | 0:54:46 | 0:54:50 | |
nears young people, and raising
money for an amazing place like the | 0:54:50 | 0:54:53 | |
royal marred den, but she ended up
kind of with her blog and with her | 0:54:53 | 0:55:00 | |
outlook in life, her attitude to the
cancer, this overwhelming adversity | 0:55:00 | 0:55:04 | |
was so incredible. I think she
pulled everybody else with her, | 0:55:04 | 0:55:07 | |
along with her, she certainly pulled
me along. She gave me the confidence | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
to keep going and I think much of
the 18 months when she was ill, we | 0:55:11 | 0:55:15 | |
lived in denial because I think we
both thought she would have a lot | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
longer really. They gave her a 10%
prognosis of living five years. It | 0:55:19 | 0:55:24 | |
wasn't a question that she was going
to be that 5%, she had the gumption | 0:55:24 | 0:55:31 | |
and belief. You did this magnificent
cycle ride to raise all this money. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
But that, that must have been really
challenging at times particularly | 0:55:35 | 0:55:39 | |
for her, obviously? Yeah. You
wouldn't have known it though. | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
Really. She was so strong. She was
very gifted athlete anyway. But she, | 0:55:42 | 0:55:49 | |
I mean, on a tandem, you are quite
close to each other and she had her | 0:55:49 | 0:55:53 | |
head or face about a foot away from
my bum more about four weeks. She | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
must have loved it. Yeah, but you
know, we had battling winds and rain | 0:55:57 | 0:56:03 | |
the whole time and she didn't
complain once. She was amazing. Did | 0:56:03 | 0:56:10 | |
fund-raising help both of you? Yeah.
Undoubtedly. Over that period of | 0:56:10 | 0:56:16 | |
time we gave ourselves lots of
things to focus on. We got married. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:19 | |
It was a huge thing. Having a kind
of small steps, thinking about | 0:56:19 | 0:56:23 | |
things a few months away, maybe a
holiday or something to tick off the | 0:56:23 | 0:56:27 | |
bucket list and the fund-raising was
that. The block and the | 0:56:27 | 0:56:31 | |
fund-raising, that whole kind of
thing that grew was something that | 0:56:31 | 0:56:35 | |
really gave us both a lot of
strength and the fund raiding, when | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
you see it ticking over and so many
people also fund raiding on you are | 0:56:38 | 0:56:43 | |
behalf. This is thanks to everybody
really who has done so much for us. | 0:56:43 | 0:56:47 | |
So that gave her so much positive
energy. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:52 | |
Before Emmy died, you made this
incredible decision to try and have | 0:56:52 | 0:56:57 | |
a baby using the eggs that she had
frozen before chemotherapy had begun | 0:56:57 | 0:57:02 | |
and using a surrogate and actually
before she died, the surrogate was | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
pregnant? Yes, that's right. So,
about two weeks before she passed | 0:57:06 | 0:57:11 | |
away, when Emmy was kind of last
fully with us, compus mentus, we had | 0:57:11 | 0:57:18 | |
a positive pregnancy test, we had
three. Liz came to our house and it | 0:57:18 | 0:57:21 | |
was a wonderful day. Emmy, we were
so rushed off our feet over the | 0:57:21 | 0:57:27 | |
previous weeks, she had nothing
left. So by the time we had the | 0:57:27 | 0:57:31 | |
pregnancy test back positive, it was
only half an hour, she was falling | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
asleep. She was fully empty. She had
nothing left. And then | 0:57:34 | 0:57:39 | |
unfortunately, I didn't see it
coming. I mean in retrospect having | 0:57:39 | 0:57:42 | |
looked at her and how frail she had
become, I should have, but she just | 0:57:42 | 0:57:46 | |
had become very, very weak and she,
it had just come after a course of | 0:57:46 | 0:57:51 | |
radiotherapy and afterwards you get
tired, but she didn't quite wake up | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
this time and then rushed her back
to hospital. There was nothing | 0:57:54 | 0:57:59 | |
acutely different, it was just
progression and we decided, I | 0:57:59 | 0:58:02 | |
decided to get her home. She wanted
to go home and I didn't want her | 0:58:02 | 0:58:05 | |
dying in hospital. So we took her
home. It is so upsetting. But she | 0:58:05 | 0:58:10 | |
knew the surrogate was pregnant.
That's right. That was huge. That | 0:58:10 | 0:58:14 | |
was massive for her. But sadly the
pregnancy was ectopic and the baby | 0:58:14 | 0:58:20 | |
lost, but you are going to try
again. That's right. That was a | 0:58:20 | 0:58:25 | |
really tough time. Afterwards,
feeling numb and not knowing what | 0:58:25 | 0:58:28 | |
was going on, Liz the surrogate who
is just an angle said she had an | 0:58:28 | 0:58:33 | |
ectopic and we spent a couple of
days in hospital dealing with that, | 0:58:33 | 0:58:36 | |
but it was never a question in my
mind that I would do it again and | 0:58:36 | 0:58:39 | |
Liz as well has been amazing. She
has come forward and said, I would | 0:58:39 | 0:58:42 | |
love to do this again for you.
You told your story to the Daily | 0:58:42 | 0:58:47 | |
Mirror. I wonder what you think
about the future. It's, I guess, so | 0:58:47 | 0:58:54 | |
uncertain. I don't want to breathe
too heavily because I so desperately | 0:58:54 | 0:58:59 | |
want this to happen. You are in the
lap of the gods as it were, if this | 0:58:59 | 0:59:04 | |
can happen, it would be the most
amazing thing. To have a little part | 0:59:04 | 0:59:08 | |
of Emmy, it would mean everything
because at times it has been really | 0:59:08 | 0:59:11 | |
dark and having something to kind of
focus on the future would be | 0:59:11 | 0:59:15 | |
massive. I know how much Emmy wanted
it and I want it for her. Thank you | 0:59:15 | 0:59:19 | |
very much. Thank you. Thank you,
Jake. Thank you for coming in. | 0:59:19 | 0:59:25 | |
Well done on the award. Thank you
very much. | 0:59:25 | 0:59:31 | |
Emmy's blog, people can go to it and
see her writing? Absolutely. This is | 0:59:31 | 0:59:36 | |
what I want to try and do, keep the
message alive. She had a motto which | 0:59:36 | 0:59:41 | |
was smile, love and be kind. It was
really simple, but people latched on | 0:59:41 | 0:59:47 | |
to it. Say it again. Smile, love and
be kind. People re-evaluated their | 0:59:47 | 0:59:53 | |
own lives, not just their health,
what can they do differently, if she | 0:59:53 | 0:59:57 | |
can do it facing what she faced what
excuse do we have to worry and kind | 0:59:57 | 1:00:03 | |
of feel sorry for ourselves, you
know. It is a massive privilege to | 1:00:03 | 1:00:09 | |
be able to take that message on and
keep that message alive. Thank you | 1:00:09 | 1:00:13 | |
very much, Jake. Thank you for
telling us about Emmy. | 1:00:13 | 1:00:17 | |
You can watch the Pride of Britain
Awards tonight at 8pm on ITV. | 1:00:17 | 1:00:21 | |
Let's get the latest weather update. | 1:00:21 | 1:00:26 | |
That has not been the way we have
done business. | 1:00:26 | 1:00:30 | |
Heavy rain this morning in
Queensbury not too far from | 1:00:30 | 1:00:33 | |
Edinburgh, it has been wet. Also
went across Cumbria, a band of rain | 1:00:33 | 1:00:38 | |
sinking south. Behind it, turning
colder. Temperatures at the moment | 1:00:38 | 1:00:45 | |
in Belfast, six. We started off with
higher values but as the cold front | 1:00:45 | 1:00:49 | |
went through, the temperature
dropped. Temperatures holding true | 1:00:49 | 1:00:55 | |
around the band of rain. Some of the
rain has been heavy, a lot of | 1:00:55 | 1:01:00 | |
surface water and spray on the
roads. The band will continue to | 1:01:00 | 1:01:05 | |
journey slowly south-east through
the day. Ahead of it, quite a lot of | 1:01:05 | 1:01:11 | |
cloud, showers, blustery. Behind it,
cloud but brightening up with | 1:01:11 | 1:01:16 | |
sunshine and showers across Scotland
and Northern Ireland. Into the | 1:01:16 | 1:01:19 | |
afternoon, we still will have the
band of rain across Yorkshire, | 1:01:19 | 1:01:25 | |
Lincolnshire, Derbyshire, the
Midlands, ahead of it, still a fair | 1:01:25 | 1:01:28 | |
bit of cloud, showers, and
temperatures still in double | 1:01:28 | 1:01:31 | |
figures. Around the band, it will be
blustery, gusty winds along the | 1:01:31 | 1:01:36 | |
south coast, and behind the band,
brighter spells, some sunshine and a | 1:01:36 | 1:01:42 | |
few showers. This afternoon across
much of Wales, showers, sunshine | 1:01:42 | 1:01:46 | |
coming out across western parts of
Wales. Northern Ireland, a lot of | 1:01:46 | 1:01:51 | |
sunshine with some showers in the
West. Some of those are likely to be | 1:01:51 | 1:01:56 | |
heavy and possibly thundery. As they
are across western parts of | 1:01:56 | 1:01:59 | |
Scotland. The rest of Scotland, dry
afternoon with lengthy sunny spells. | 1:01:59 | 1:02:05 | |
Temperature wise, in Manchester,
about 11 degrees. As the band of | 1:02:05 | 1:02:13 | |
rain goes through, we are looking at
eight this afternoon. This evening | 1:02:13 | 1:02:17 | |
and overnight, the band of rain
continues to drift south-east as a | 1:02:17 | 1:02:21 | |
weakening feature. Behind it,
clearing skies, cold night. In rural | 1:02:21 | 1:02:30 | |
areas, it will be lower, so we could
be looking at temperatures well | 1:02:30 | 1:02:34 | |
below freezing for some with a touch
of frost and patchy mist and fog. | 1:02:34 | 1:02:39 | |
Tomorrow, the remnants of today's
front slowly clearing, high pressure | 1:02:39 | 1:02:43 | |
still with us, and other weather
front coming in from the West | 1:02:43 | 1:02:46 | |
introducing wet and windy conditions
again with gales in the north-west | 1:02:46 | 1:02:52 | |
but a lot of dry and sunny weather.
In the south-east, a bit more cloud | 1:02:52 | 1:02:57 | |
and temperatures here up to 11. | 1:02:57 | 1:03:07 | |
Hello it's Tuesday, it's 10 o'clock,
I'm Victoria Derbyshire. | 1:03:07 | 1:03:12 | |
This morning... | 1:03:12 | 1:03:13 | |
the controversial policy
of stop and search - | 1:03:13 | 1:03:15 | |
is it an important measure
in tackling knife crime or does it | 1:03:15 | 1:03:18 | |
just lead to alienation
of the black community? | 1:03:18 | 1:03:19 | |
I've been stopped over 70 times
because of my colour. | 1:03:19 | 1:03:22 | |
Even now I do something good
for the community, I get stopped. | 1:03:22 | 1:03:25 | |
Our report in the next
hour and really keen | 1:03:25 | 1:03:27 | |
to hear your experiences too. | 1:03:27 | 1:03:31 | |
We will speak to someone who's son
was stabbed to death. Plus, a woman | 1:03:31 | 1:03:38 | |
seeking a | 1:03:38 | 1:03:41 | |
was stabbed to death. Plus, a woman
seeking a private rain prosecution | 1:03:41 | 1:03:43 | |
tells this programme she hopes to
lead the way for those let down by | 1:03:43 | 1:03:46 | |
the courts. When I worked up, I had
never seen him before and I was on a | 1:03:46 | 1:03:51 | |
hotel bed. I woke up cold, with a
sheet on me that had a really | 1:03:51 | 1:03:58 | |
particular texture to it and I knew
it wasn't mine. Did you have any | 1:03:58 | 1:04:04 | |
clothes on? No, I was completely
naked. You can hear her interview | 1:04:04 | 1:04:11 | |
before 11. And foodbanks could
struggle to meet demand this winter | 1:04:11 | 1:04:16 | |
unless urgent action is taken to
improve Universal Credit. We will | 1:04:16 | 1:04:19 | |
hear from those affected. | 1:04:19 | 1:04:23 | |
The latest news now with Rebecca.
Leaked documents analysed by the | 1:04:31 | 1:04:38 | |
BBC's Panorama and the international
consortium of investigative | 1:04:38 | 1:04:41 | |
journalists reveal Apple moved
profits to Jersey after a tax | 1:04:41 | 1:04:47 | |
loophole in Ireland was close. The
arrangement isn't illegal, but it | 1:04:47 | 1:04:53 | |
means the technology giant saves
billions in corporation tax. Apple | 1:04:53 | 1:04:56 | |
says it remains the world's largest
taxpayer. The files also showed | 1:04:56 | 1:05:01 | |
Formula 1 world champion Lewis
Hamilton avoided tax on a luxury jet | 1:05:01 | 1:05:05 | |
he bought by importing it to the
Isle of Man. Our economics | 1:05:05 | 1:05:12 | |
correspondent has more. | 1:05:12 | 1:05:22 | |
COMMENTATOR: Hamilton
is world champion... | 1:05:22 | 1:05:24 | |
Five years ago, Lewis Hamilton
bought his own luxury jet | 1:05:24 | 1:05:26 | |
worth £16.5 million. | 1:05:26 | 1:05:27 | |
It was something he'd always wanted. | 1:05:27 | 1:05:28 | |
This is your plane. | 1:05:28 | 1:05:29 | |
If I get a plane, I'm
going to pimp it out? | 1:05:29 | 1:05:32 | |
Paint it red, yeah? | 1:05:32 | 1:05:33 | |
Exactly. | 1:05:33 | 1:05:34 | |
In January, 2013, the Formula 1
champion landed his new private | 1:05:34 | 1:05:37 | |
plane at the Isle of Man's airport,
importing it there. | 1:05:37 | 1:05:39 | |
Isle of Man customs officials
met him at 6:15am to finalise | 1:05:39 | 1:05:42 | |
the paperwork and sign off on a VAT
refund of £3.3 million. | 1:05:42 | 1:05:46 | |
I can't believe I have my own plane
still, after all these years. | 1:05:46 | 1:05:49 | |
Under EU rules, you're only meant
to get a refund if the jet's used | 1:05:49 | 1:05:53 | |
for commercial purposes,
but the documents suggest Hamilton | 1:05:53 | 1:05:56 | |
was planning to spend a third
of his flying time on personal use, | 1:05:56 | 1:06:00 | |
and he's not alone. | 1:06:00 | 1:06:03 | |
The leaks also show the Isle of Man
paid £790 million in VAT refunds | 1:06:03 | 1:06:07 | |
to jet-leasing companies. | 1:06:07 | 1:06:09 | |
If they're using it for private
purposes, the fact that all this | 1:06:09 | 1:06:12 | |
money is being refunded
is quite shocking. | 1:06:12 | 1:06:14 | |
You should not be getting VAT back
if it's private usage | 1:06:14 | 1:06:17 | |
and you're getting VAT back. | 1:06:17 | 1:06:20 | |
Mr Hamilton's lawyer said
the arrangement was lawful. | 1:06:20 | 1:06:23 | |
The documents also reveal how
the iPhone maker Apple used | 1:06:23 | 1:06:29 | |
a British Crown dependency
to keep its tax bill down. | 1:06:29 | 1:06:32 | |
We pay all the taxes we owe,
every single dollar. | 1:06:32 | 1:06:35 | |
We not only comply with
the laws, but we comply | 1:06:35 | 1:06:39 | |
with the spirit of the laws. | 1:06:39 | 1:06:40 | |
We don't depend on tax gimmicks. | 1:06:40 | 1:06:44 | |
In 2014, Ireland announced
it would ban companies | 1:06:44 | 1:06:46 | |
with no tax residency. | 1:06:46 | 1:06:51 | |
That meant Apple needed a tax
residency for its lucrative | 1:06:51 | 1:06:56 | |
Irish subsidiaries fast,
so it sent out a questionnaire | 1:06:56 | 1:07:03 | |
courting tax havens and it chose
Jersey, where its $261 billion pile | 1:07:03 | 1:07:08 | |
of cash from selling phones
and iPads is now tax resident. | 1:07:08 | 1:07:11 | |
Apple said the structure hadn't
lowered its taxes and it remained | 1:07:11 | 1:07:13 | |
the world's largest taxpayer. | 1:07:13 | 1:07:14 | |
Andy Verity, BBC News. | 1:07:14 | 1:07:19 | |
The Jersey government have
responded. In a statement, they say, | 1:07:19 | 1:07:24 | |
Jersey does not want abusive tax
avoidance schemes operating in the | 1:07:24 | 1:07:29 | |
island and it expects financial
service providers to abide by a | 1:07:29 | 1:07:32 | |
voluntary code to say they will not
take on this kind of business. The | 1:07:32 | 1:07:36 | |
allegations will be investigated and
we are asking the ICI J to provide | 1:07:36 | 1:07:41 | |
relevant documents to support this
action. The husband of a British | 1:07:41 | 1:07:46 | |
Iranian woman jailed in Iran has
urged the Foreign Secretary, Boris | 1:07:46 | 1:07:52 | |
Johnson, to attract in Parliament
and error he made in talking about | 1:07:52 | 1:07:54 | |
the case. Mr Johnson told MPs
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been | 1:07:54 | 1:08:00 | |
training journalists. Her husband,
Richard, said she was on holiday. | 1:08:00 | 1:08:04 | |
The legal authorities in Iran have
threatened to increase the five-year | 1:08:04 | 1:08:08 | |
sentence imposed on her. Victoria
will be talking to Richard, the | 1:08:08 | 1:08:14 | |
husband of the British woman jailed
in Iran, at 10:25am. The Prime | 1:08:14 | 1:08:19 | |
Minister has asked for the
ministerial code of conduct to be | 1:08:19 | 1:08:22 | |
tightened after an MP apologised for
holding secret meetings with Israeli | 1:08:22 | 1:08:27 | |
officials in the summer. | 1:08:27 | 1:08:37 | |
Priti Patel - the International
Development Secretary - | 1:08:38 | 1:08:40 | |
apologised for not informing
the Foreign Office and suggesting | 1:08:40 | 1:08:42 | |
Boris Johnson knew in
advance of the visit. | 1:08:42 | 1:08:44 | |
Labour said the "shocking" admission
warranted a Cabinet Office inquiry. | 1:08:44 | 1:08:46 | |
US President Donald Trump has
been greeted with full | 1:08:46 | 1:08:48 | |
ceremony in South Korea,
on the latest leg of | 1:08:48 | 1:08:50 | |
his tour of East Asia. | 1:08:50 | 1:08:52 | |
His 24-hour visit comes as tensions
remain high on the Korean peninsula. | 1:08:52 | 1:08:56 | |
President Trump has said he is
hopeful North Korea can be persuaded | 1:08:56 | 1:09:01 | |
to enter into negotiations but he
also warned the north America was | 1:09:01 | 1:09:05 | |
prepared to use its military might
to defend itself against aggression, | 1:09:05 | 1:09:10 | |
if it had to. North Korea is a
worldwide threat that requires | 1:09:10 | 1:09:16 | |
worldwide action. We call on every
responsible nation, including China | 1:09:16 | 1:09:22 | |
and Russia, to demand that the North
Korean regime end its nuclear | 1:09:22 | 1:09:27 | |
weapons and its missile programmes
and live in peace. As the South | 1:09:27 | 1:09:33 | |
Korean people know so well, it is
time to act with urgency and with | 1:09:33 | 1:09:38 | |
great determination. That is a
summary of the latest BBC News. More | 1:09:38 | 1:09:45 | |
at 10:30am. An e-mail from Mark, it
is politically correct programmes | 1:09:45 | 1:09:50 | |
like yours which want everyone to
think they are a victim which has | 1:09:50 | 1:09:53 | |
directly led to an increase in knife
attacks and acid attacks. I would | 1:09:53 | 1:09:58 | |
rather my 16-year-old son be stopped
and searched every day than the -- | 1:09:58 | 1:10:06 | |
and be safe. Leftist propaganda
shows like yours are making it more | 1:10:06 | 1:10:11 | |
difficult for the police. An
ex-police officer says they have had | 1:10:11 | 1:10:16 | |
16 years experience, many serious
issues with the Met Police, one of | 1:10:16 | 1:10:19 | |
which is trust. There is no trust.
Police officers do not trust other | 1:10:19 | 1:10:24 | |
police officers so how can members
of the public reasonably trust them? | 1:10:24 | 1:10:28 | |
Keep those coming in, a further
conversation about stop and search | 1:10:28 | 1:10:32 | |
after 10:30am. Send me an e-mail,
Facebook, WhatsApp, and if you are | 1:10:32 | 1:10:37 | |
texting, you will be charged. Sport. | 1:10:37 | 1:10:48 | |
David -- David Moyes is the new
manager. Stuart Pearce in line to | 1:10:49 | 1:10:55 | |
come in as his number two could
placate the fans. West Ham have | 1:10:55 | 1:10:59 | |
posted a video of David Moyes on
social media this morning saying how | 1:10:59 | 1:11:02 | |
much he is looking forward to the
job. I'm really looking forward to | 1:11:02 | 1:11:06 | |
meeting the supporters, being in the
stadium with them, looking forward | 1:11:06 | 1:11:09 | |
to seeing them getting right behind
the team. | 1:11:09 | 1:11:18 | |
Confirmation of that, the
appointment of David Moyes this | 1:11:24 | 1:11:26 | |
morning. England's preparation for
the Ashes has not been perfect, | 1:11:26 | 1:11:31 | |
without the all-rounder Ben Stokes
after the incident outside a Bristol | 1:11:31 | 1:11:35 | |
nightclub, and Steven Finn was
brought in to replace Ben Stokes but | 1:11:35 | 1:11:38 | |
now they have lost him. He is flying
home for treatment on a knee injury. | 1:11:38 | 1:11:44 | |
The first Test starts this month and
the England coach has already | 1:11:44 | 1:11:47 | |
decided on most of the side for the
Test. I think we are a little bit | 1:11:47 | 1:11:52 | |
like Australia, probably down to
nine of the 11, one or two spots | 1:11:52 | 1:11:59 | |
still discussing and we still have
two more games to go yet. I am sure | 1:11:59 | 1:12:05 | |
it will work itself out before the
first Test. Finally, it is known as | 1:12:05 | 1:12:10 | |
the race that stops a nation, an
incredible finish at the Melbourne | 1:12:10 | 1:12:15 | |
Cup. An Irish one, two, three. There
was an overtaking in the closing | 1:12:15 | 1:12:25 | |
sprint. The trainer of the winning
horse was Joseph O'Brien, that | 1:12:25 | 1:12:29 | |
trainer of the horse he beat of the
line was his father, Aidan O'Brien, | 1:12:29 | 1:12:32 | |
and the best in the world. Passing
on tips over the breakfast table! | 1:12:32 | 1:12:37 | |
Thank you very much. | 1:12:37 | 1:12:41 | |
Next, the Government's flagship
benefit reform Universal Credit | 1:12:41 | 1:12:43 | |
and claims that foodbank usage has
increased drastically in areas | 1:12:43 | 1:12:46 | |
where it's been introduced. | 1:12:46 | 1:12:47 | |
The Trussell Trust,
which is the UK's biggest | 1:12:47 | 1:12:49 | |
foodbank operator, says areas
where Universal Credit | 1:12:49 | 1:12:53 | |
has been in place for six months
have seen a 30% increase in demand | 1:12:53 | 1:12:56 | |
on the previous year. | 1:12:56 | 1:12:57 | |
The Government say it's
misleading to link foodbank | 1:12:57 | 1:12:59 | |
usage to any one issue. | 1:12:59 | 1:13:03 | |
This programme has been
following Universal Credit claimants | 1:13:03 | 1:13:06 | |
and spoke recently to two
people who have experienced serious | 1:13:06 | 1:13:10 | |
financial hardship as a result
to moving on to the new benefit. | 1:13:10 | 1:13:16 | |
Last weekend, we've had no food. | 1:13:16 | 1:13:19 | |
My five-year-old's last
food was school dinners. | 1:13:19 | 1:13:22 | |
On Saturday, we were
walking down the street, | 1:13:22 | 1:13:25 | |
she was searching in bins for food
because she was starving. | 1:13:25 | 1:13:30 | |
She was, like, ripping McDonald's
bags to see if there were any chips | 1:13:30 | 1:13:33 | |
or anything on the floor. | 1:13:33 | 1:13:35 | |
It was awful. | 1:13:35 | 1:13:36 | |
Broke my heart. | 1:13:36 | 1:13:37 | |
Sunday, there was no food. | 1:13:37 | 1:13:40 | |
She was going to bed,
her stomach was rumbling. | 1:13:40 | 1:13:43 | |
"I'm hungry, I'm
hungry, I'm hungry." | 1:13:43 | 1:13:44 | |
She had no food Saturday, Sunday. | 1:13:44 | 1:13:46 | |
Went to school really,
really hungry. | 1:13:46 | 1:13:47 | |
You take her to bed
and her tummy's rumbling. | 1:13:47 | 1:13:51 | |
You're just giving her water,
but she wants food and you can't... | 1:13:51 | 1:13:54 | |
I can't go to the shop and steal. | 1:13:54 | 1:13:56 | |
It's awful. | 1:13:56 | 1:13:57 | |
And I can't keep asking
neighbours for food. | 1:13:57 | 1:13:59 | |
I shouldn't have to live like this. | 1:13:59 | 1:14:01 | |
It's awful. | 1:14:01 | 1:14:05 | |
I've never struggled
like this before in my life. | 1:14:05 | 1:14:08 | |
I've never been in this situation
where I could lose my home. | 1:14:08 | 1:14:12 | |
It's a big thing. | 1:14:12 | 1:14:14 | |
I'll die on them streets. | 1:14:14 | 1:14:16 | |
If I do get evicted,
I don't know what I'll do. | 1:14:16 | 1:14:19 | |
I don't know where to go for help. | 1:14:19 | 1:14:23 | |
The chances are 50-50,
if I'm going to be homeless or not. | 1:14:23 | 1:14:26 | |
Where do I go? | 1:14:26 | 1:14:27 | |
I don't know really. | 1:14:27 | 1:14:29 | |
I daren't think that far ahead. | 1:14:29 | 1:14:36 | |
Kids... | 1:14:41 | 1:14:43 | |
Kids shouldn't have
to go through this. | 1:14:43 | 1:14:48 | |
No one should really. | 1:14:48 | 1:14:53 | |
With us in the studio
are Alison Inglis-Jones | 1:14:53 | 1:14:57 | |
from the Trussell Trust,
Daphine Aitkens who manages | 1:14:57 | 1:15:04 | |
Hammersmisth and Fulham foodbank,
and via Skype, two claimants | 1:15:04 | 1:15:08 | |
of the new benefit -
Brendan Faulkner, in Leeds, | 1:15:08 | 1:15:10 | |
and Brian Comley, in Southampton. | 1:15:10 | 1:15:11 | |
And in a moment, we'll
speak to Edward Boyd, | 1:15:11 | 1:15:14 | |
from the Centre for Social Justice -
the think tank set up by former | 1:15:14 | 1:15:17 | |
Welfare Secretary Ian Duncan Smith
who designed Universal Credit. | 1:15:17 | 1:15:20 | |
Allison, compared to the same period
last year, across the country, you | 1:15:20 | 1:15:25 | |
say foodbank usage is up 13%, but in
areas where Universal Credit has | 1:15:25 | 1:15:30 | |
been ruled out for six months or
Moore, a 30% on average increase, | 1:15:30 | 1:15:34 | |
how do you get these fingers? --
figures? We measured the numbers of | 1:15:34 | 1:15:39 | |
people coming to the foodbanks
before the roll-out of Universal | 1:15:39 | 1:15:43 | |
Credit and after and what we saw was
a 30% rise. How many foodbanks do | 1:15:43 | 1:15:48 | |
you run in total? 420. So it was a
small sample. Representative. A wide | 1:15:48 | 1:15:58 | |
geographical groupings across the
whole of the UK. If the figures are | 1:15:58 | 1:16:02 | |
accurate, why do you say there has
been a much bigger rise in Universal | 1:16:02 | 1:16:06 | |
Credit areas? As a volunteer in
three foodbanks and as a trustee, we | 1:16:06 | 1:16:10 | |
recognise the drivers of people
coming, they have to bring a voucher | 1:16:10 | 1:16:15 | |
with them, and Universal Credit is
being flagged over and over again as | 1:16:15 | 1:16:18 | |
one of the reasons why people are
coming and the stories we are | 1:16:18 | 1:16:22 | |
hearing in the foodbanks. What about
you, Daphine? Have you seen a rise? | 1:16:22 | 1:16:28 | |
What are people saying to you about
why they are coming to your | 1:16:28 | 1:16:32 | |
foodbank? A very significant rise in
Hammersmith and Fulham. The first | 1:16:32 | 1:16:36 | |
six months of the financial year,
very nearly double the same period | 1:16:36 | 1:16:40 | |
of last. We have seen almost 97%
increase. They are coming to us | 1:16:40 | 1:16:46 | |
primarily because of universal to
credit the stories, one of those you | 1:16:46 | 1:16:52 | |
heard earlier, one of my clients. No
benefits at all. Waiting for | 1:16:52 | 1:16:58 | |
payment? Her daughter was looking
through bins on the street. With | 1:16:58 | 1:17:03 | |
that, there is nothing coming in,
not just benefits, your rent, | 1:17:03 | 1:17:06 | |
housing benefit. When the Department
for Work and Pensions says the | 1:17:06 | 1:17:11 | |
reasons for foodbank use are wide
and complex and linking it to one | 1:17:11 | 1:17:16 | |
issue would be misleading, how do
you respond? University of Oxford | 1:17:16 | 1:17:20 | |
research has pinpointed why people
are coming and that is benefit | 1:17:20 | 1:17:24 | |
sanctions and delays followed by low
income as a driver. They say, we are | 1:17:24 | 1:17:28 | |
clear advanced payments are widely
available from the start of anyone's | 1:17:28 | 1:17:32 | |
claim and urgent cases are fast
tracked so no one should be without | 1:17:32 | 1:17:36 | |
funds. This is what they say. The
problem with the advance payments is | 1:17:36 | 1:17:40 | |
that they have to be paid back
almost immediately, the first time | 1:17:40 | 1:17:51 | |
you get your Universal Credit
payment, 13 weeks afterwards | 1:17:51 | 1:17:53 | |
perhaps, you have to start paying
the advance back in quite | 1:17:53 | 1:17:55 | |
significant amounts and somebody who
already has accrued debt and other | 1:17:55 | 1:17:57 | |
financial issues including rent
arrears, to start paying the debt | 1:17:57 | 1:18:01 | |
back immediately on very small
amounts of money, it is crazy. I | 1:18:01 | 1:18:04 | |
have a client who I saw on Friday,
her Universal Credit payment is less | 1:18:04 | 1:18:08 | |
than her housing benefit that she
has to pay each month. Let me bring | 1:18:08 | 1:18:11 | |
in Brian. Thank you for coming on
the programme. What led you to using | 1:18:11 | 1:18:17 | |
a foodbank? | 1:18:17 | 1:18:22 | |
Mainly in between benefits when I
had to get some food in. I was going | 1:18:22 | 1:18:28 | |
to wait six weeks, but then I forced
them to sort of think about and give | 1:18:28 | 1:18:34 | |
me advance payment on the Universal
Credit which I have got £400 which I | 1:18:34 | 1:18:38 | |
have now paid back. Right.
And what was that period of time | 1:18:38 | 1:18:41 | |
like? Not, I want to really -- I
wasn't really worried about things. | 1:18:41 | 1:18:50 | |
I had a foodbank that come to me
once every Friday instead of just | 1:18:50 | 1:18:55 | |
for the two weeks. You had to wait
for one. But yeah, this one was | 1:18:55 | 1:19:02 | |
every Friday so you would look
forward to Friday. Yes, but you were | 1:19:02 | 1:19:06 | |
reliant on it effectively for a
period of time? For a period of | 1:19:06 | 1:19:09 | |
time, yeah. Let me bring in Edward
Boyd for the Centre for Social | 1:19:09 | 1:19:16 | |
Justice. They designed Universal
Credit. I'm really glad you're here | 1:19:16 | 1:19:21 | |
because I am desperate to ask why
design a system that makes you wait | 1:19:21 | 1:19:26 | |
six weeks for the first payment?
Thank you for having us on. The | 1:19:26 | 1:19:30 | |
thirst thing to say... No. No, just
answer that question first of all | 1:19:30 | 1:19:33 | |
because it is the key theme that
comes up every time. You have to | 1:19:33 | 1:19:38 | |
split it into two parts. At the
moment when you come in as a new | 1:19:38 | 1:19:42 | |
claimant, when you get paid your
money, you are not paid for the | 1:19:42 | 1:19:45 | |
first seven days, when you get your
money there is a deficit in terms of | 1:19:45 | 1:19:48 | |
the income that you get. That was
never anything we designed and there | 1:19:48 | 1:19:51 | |
is a big reason why people are
falling into debt. We are relying on | 1:19:51 | 1:19:56 | |
foodbanks is something that we are
petitioning the Government to | 1:19:56 | 1:19:58 | |
change. The idea of being paid at
the end of the month, take that at | 1:19:58 | 1:20:01 | |
the end of the month when someone is
being paid is you will mirror what | 1:20:01 | 1:20:04 | |
it is like out of work with what it
is like into work. The idea here are | 1:20:04 | 1:20:10 | |
a group of people who are vulnerable
and out of work and you need to do | 1:20:10 | 1:20:15 | |
to all you can to support them into
work. It is still six weeks before | 1:20:15 | 1:20:20 | |
the first payment? No, it's not.
It's paid in arrears. You take away | 1:20:20 | 1:20:25 | |
the first week, it is only five
weeks which I think they should be | 1:20:25 | 1:20:28 | |
doing and looking to do in the
Budget. The idea of paying it in | 1:20:28 | 1:20:33 | |
arrears... For most people who move
on to Universal Credit they will be | 1:20:33 | 1:20:38 | |
in work already and they will
behaving a wage that's paid at the | 1:20:38 | 1:20:41 | |
end of the month and it makes sense
to sync the two together. If you are | 1:20:41 | 1:20:46 | |
talking about people out of work and
don't have savings, they should be | 1:20:46 | 1:20:51 | |
getting a payment upfront. You get
to within two weeks, and if you | 1:20:51 | 1:20:54 | |
really need it, the first day you go
into a Jobcentre, you should be | 1:20:54 | 1:20:58 | |
getting it that day. We heard over
the conference season this year, | 1:20:58 | 1:21:01 | |
that's what has been brought in now.
So it is a really welcome change. I | 1:21:01 | 1:21:04 | |
think they had an issue with this
about three to four months ago, not | 1:21:04 | 1:21:11 | |
enough people were getting budget
advances and the work coaches on the | 1:21:11 | 1:21:14 | |
ground weren't explaining it. It is
still a problem because you get an | 1:21:14 | 1:21:18 | |
advanced payment and of course, you
have to pay that back, of course, | 1:21:18 | 1:21:21 | |
you do. By then, you're already in
debt. So it sort of spirals. That's | 1:21:21 | 1:21:25 | |
what we're hearing from people. The
way that this payment works is you | 1:21:25 | 1:21:29 | |
pay it over six months, it's
interest-free. It doesn't matter. It | 1:21:29 | 1:21:34 | |
doesn't matter that it's interest
free? People, on paper, this sounds | 1:21:34 | 1:21:40 | |
really as though it should work. In
reality I'm saying to you, we have | 1:21:40 | 1:21:45 | |
heard so many stories from people
that it is not working. That it is | 1:21:45 | 1:21:49 | |
making their lives really hard. I
don't feel that you are | 1:21:49 | 1:21:52 | |
understanding that. Look, we deal
with, I help set-up a foodbank and I | 1:21:52 | 1:21:58 | |
speak to people like this all the
time. Trust me we understand that | 1:21:58 | 1:22:03 | |
side of things. You cannot compare a
stwempl that's not perfect and it is | 1:22:03 | 1:22:06 | |
not perfect as it is with the one
that came before because that was | 1:22:06 | 1:22:09 | |
even worse than the system that we
have got now. This is about | 1:22:09 | 1:22:13 | |
improving something... I wasn't
comparing it to the one before. I | 1:22:13 | 1:22:16 | |
was wondering why it wasn't better
than it is. This is about improving | 1:22:16 | 1:22:21 | |
the way that welfare works and
trying to minimise the number of | 1:22:21 | 1:22:24 | |
people that fall through the gaps.
You look at how it is working across | 1:22:24 | 1:22:28 | |
the whole country though and the
data, whether it is from IFS or the | 1:22:28 | 1:22:33 | |
Government, shows more people are in
work and more people are staying in | 1:22:33 | 1:22:36 | |
work than ever before. So that's a
good thing. The fact that people are | 1:22:36 | 1:22:40 | |
having to rely on foodbanks is not
how it should be. The fact that the | 1:22:40 | 1:22:44 | |
advanced payments are not getting to
these people is doing that DWP needs | 1:22:44 | 1:22:50 | |
to look. There is more people in
work as a result. | 1:22:50 | 1:22:53 | |
Thank you very much. Thank you to
all of you, thank you for coming on | 1:22:53 | 1:22:56 | |
the programme. | 1:22:56 | 1:22:58 | |
Still to come: | 1:22:58 | 1:22:59 | |
President Trump has arrived
in South Korea, on the latest leg | 1:22:59 | 1:23:02 | |
of his tour of East Asia. | 1:23:02 | 1:23:03 | |
We'll have the latest. | 1:23:03 | 1:23:06 | |
As if Theresa May didn't have
enough to worry about, | 1:23:06 | 1:23:08 | |
she's now got another couple
of problems on her plate - | 1:23:08 | 1:23:11 | |
both of them caused
by members of her Cabinet. | 1:23:11 | 1:23:13 | |
The Development Secretary,
Priti Patel, has caused her huge | 1:23:13 | 1:23:15 | |
embarrassment by holding talks
in Israel with senior government | 1:23:15 | 1:23:17 | |
figures without even
telling the Foreign Office. | 1:23:17 | 1:23:25 | |
And the Foreign Secretary himself,
Boris Johnson, has made unguarded | 1:23:25 | 1:23:28 | |
comments about a British women who's
being held in jail in Iran that | 1:23:28 | 1:23:31 | |
might mean her being
imprisoned even longer. | 1:23:31 | 1:23:33 | |
Our political guru,
Norman Smith, is here. | 1:23:33 | 1:23:37 | |
Hi Norman. Hi. In normal
circumstances would these two | 1:23:37 | 1:23:42 | |
ministers have lost their jobs by
now? I think a lot of people at | 1:23:42 | 1:23:46 | |
Westminster think yes, they would
have been sacked, but because Mrs | 1:23:46 | 1:23:50 | |
May's Cabinet is just so fragile at
the moment she can't afford to boot | 1:23:50 | 1:23:53 | |
anyone out, but it is a fairly
extraordinary set of events that has | 1:23:53 | 1:23:59 | |
now unfolding. Normally on Tuesday
there is a Cabinet. There isn't a | 1:23:59 | 1:24:04 | |
Cabinet today and frankly that's
just as well because you suspect a | 1:24:04 | 1:24:06 | |
lot of Cabinet Ministers would sort
of looking rather shame faced at the | 1:24:06 | 1:24:10 | |
mess they are in. Top of the pile,
Boris Johnson, as you say, facing | 1:24:10 | 1:24:16 | |
mounting criticism after he appears
to have worsened the plight of this | 1:24:16 | 1:24:20 | |
British Iranian woman who has
already been jailed for five years | 1:24:20 | 1:24:25 | |
by mistakenly suggesting that she
had gone to Iran to help teach | 1:24:25 | 1:24:29 | |
journalism. The Iranian authorities
have said ah-ha, she was here to | 1:24:29 | 1:24:36 | |
spread propaganda against our regime
and are threatening to double her | 1:24:36 | 1:24:40 | |
jail sentence and this all stems
from comments Mr Johnson made last | 1:24:40 | 1:24:45 | |
week at the Foreign Affairs Select
Committee. Let's listen to what he | 1:24:45 | 1:24:48 | |
said. | 1:24:48 | 1:24:51 | |
When you look at what Nazanin
Zaghari-Ratcliffe was doing, she was | 1:24:51 | 1:24:57 | |
simply teaching people journalism as
I understand it. Her husband said | 1:24:57 | 1:25:05 | |
that's incorrect. Her employers have
said that's just wrong. So wrong we | 1:25:05 | 1:25:09 | |
have not had an apology or
clarification from Mr Johnson, but | 1:25:09 | 1:25:13 | |
he is going to phone the Iranian
Foreign Minister later this morning. | 1:25:13 | 1:25:19 | |
Elsewhere, we have Priti Patel who
is been found out being economical | 1:25:19 | 1:25:25 | |
with the actuality about going and
seeing a whole load of Israeli | 1:25:25 | 1:25:29 | |
politicians during a holiday in
Israel, not telling the Foreign | 1:25:29 | 1:25:32 | |
Secretary or anyone in government
about it and not being very clear | 1:25:32 | 1:25:36 | |
about who she was meeting including,
it seems, the Israeli Prime | 1:25:36 | 1:25:40 | |
Minister. Then, of course, at the
table, wee have Damian Green. He is | 1:25:40 | 1:25:45 | |
shame faced because he's under
investigation about the Cabinet | 1:25:45 | 1:25:49 | |
Office over improper behaviour,
alleged improper behaviour and where | 1:25:49 | 1:25:53 | |
he had pornography on his computer.
We have got the new Chief Whip, | 1:25:53 | 1:25:58 | |
Gavin Williamson who has just been
promoted and a lot of people think | 1:25:58 | 1:26:03 | |
he only has been promoted because he
is Theresa May's best buddy and | 1:26:03 | 1:26:07 | |
Andrea Leadsom is facing accusations
she was the woman who knifed Michael | 1:26:07 | 1:26:12 | |
Fallon by saying Mr Fallon had made
improper remarks to her. My thinking | 1:26:12 | 1:26:16 | |
is Theresa May is going thank god I
don't have a Cabinet today! | 1:26:16 | 1:26:21 | |
Thank you very much, Norman. | 1:26:21 | 1:26:27 | |
We can speak now to the Conservative
MP Nadhim Zahawi sits | 1:26:27 | 1:26:30 | |
on the Foreign Affairs Select
Committee. | 1:26:30 | 1:26:33 | |
We can Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe's
husband, Richard Ratcliffe. | 1:26:33 | 1:26:35 | |
And the political commentator
Daisy McAndrew is here. | 1:26:35 | 1:26:40 | |
Should Boris Johnson resign? No, I
don't think he should resign. The | 1:26:40 | 1:26:46 | |
important thing is to focus on
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe this. Is a | 1:26:46 | 1:26:50 | |
mother, a wife who was on holiday
and has been jailed and the Iranian | 1:26:50 | 1:26:56 | |
regime a couple of weeks ago were
looking at increasing her sentence. | 1:26:56 | 1:27:01 | |
Let's not forget what this is about.
No one is forgetting the precarious | 1:27:01 | 1:27:12 | |
position that Nazanin
Zaghari-Ratcliffe finds herself in, | 1:27:12 | 1:27:15 | |
apart, it seems, the Foreign
Secretary? Well, I don't think | 1:27:15 | 1:27:19 | |
that's right. He on that committee,
said that he would personally want | 1:27:19 | 1:27:24 | |
to visit Nazanin. He will be
redoubling his efforts when he | 1:27:24 | 1:27:29 | |
speaks to the Iranian Foreign
Minister... He got his facts wrong | 1:27:29 | 1:27:36 | |
in a very, very, in a way that he
should not have got his facts wrong | 1:27:36 | 1:27:41 | |
because somebody's life is depending
on the kind of comments that the | 1:27:41 | 1:27:44 | |
Foreign Secretary of this country
makes. | 1:27:44 | 1:27:49 | |
Well, Nazanin's life is depending on
the behaviour of the Revolutionary | 1:27:49 | 1:27:54 | |
Guard court. The IRGC and I think
let's be careful here. We've got to | 1:27:54 | 1:27:58 | |
make sure that we get Nazanin, she
is a British citizen, and mother and | 1:27:58 | 1:28:02 | |
a wife, she was on holiday... So if
Boris Johnson makes mistakes about | 1:28:02 | 1:28:06 | |
why she was in the country, he is
not going to be able to get her out, | 1:28:06 | 1:28:10 | |
is he? And he is going to be on the
phone making it very clear to his | 1:28:10 | 1:28:17 | |
counterpart in Iran that his words
to the committee were wrong and he | 1:28:17 | 1:28:20 | |
will redouble his efforts to get her
out and you know... Has he rung his | 1:28:20 | 1:28:27 | |
Iranian counterpart already? I can't
hear you. Well, I don't know because | 1:28:27 | 1:28:34 | |
I don't speak for Boris Johnson. I'm
a member of Parliament and I'm on | 1:28:34 | 1:28:38 | |
the Foreign Affairs Select
Committee, I want him to redouble | 1:28:38 | 1:28:40 | |
his efforts. What I don't want to
happen is Emily Thornbury and the | 1:28:40 | 1:28:45 | |
Labour Party to be seen as stodgies.
Oh, come on. This is wrong. We | 1:28:45 | 1:28:50 | |
should focus on the behaviour of the
Iranian regime and put as must | 1:28:50 | 1:28:54 | |
pressure on them as possible to get
Nazanin back home. The way you are | 1:28:54 | 1:28:58 | |
talking, it sounds as though you
don't really think Boris Johnson has | 1:28:58 | 1:29:02 | |
done anything wrong? That's not
true, Victoria, with all respect. I | 1:29:02 | 1:29:09 | |
opened by saying to you he clearly
made a mistake... And how damaging | 1:29:09 | 1:29:13 | |
is that. He wants to put it right by
speaking to his counterpart. What is | 1:29:13 | 1:29:20 | |
damaging is the behaviour of the
regime and that's what we should | 1:29:20 | 1:29:24 | |
focus on. Thank you for talking to
us. | 1:29:24 | 1:29:30 | |
Richard Ratcliffe is here as is
Daisy McAndrew. | 1:29:30 | 1:29:34 | |
Hello. How are you? Hi, Victoria. It
has been a tough few days. So how | 1:29:34 | 1:29:41 | |
damaging is it what Boris Johnson
said and just to let our audience | 1:29:41 | 1:29:46 | |
know, he told a Parliamentary
Committee that your wife was in Iran | 1:29:46 | 1:29:50 | |
teaching people journalism, a
reference to her role as programme | 1:29:50 | 1:29:53 | |
co-ordinator with the Thompson
Reuters foundation, which is not | 1:29:53 | 1:29:56 | |
true. She was not teaching people
journalism and days later a court | 1:29:56 | 1:30:01 | |
hearing in Tehran cited Mr Johnson's
comments as proof she was spreading | 1:30:01 | 1:30:05 | |
propaganda. That's right. He spoke
in the Foreign Affairs Committee and | 1:30:05 | 1:30:10 | |
he said three things. One of which
was, the MP has just said, he | 1:30:10 | 1:30:16 | |
condemned Iran for its detention of
her. I was pleased. He said she was | 1:30:16 | 1:30:22 | |
training journalism which we were
not happy with and he offered to | 1:30:22 | 1:30:25 | |
visit. It was great and we picked up
on the positives and two days later | 1:30:25 | 1:30:28 | |
she was brought in front of the most
severe of the rev lieu court judges | 1:30:28 | 1:30:32 | |
and told there were new charges of
spreading propaganda against the | 1:30:32 | 1:30:36 | |
regime. Which could lead to her
spending more years in jail? It | 1:30:36 | 1:30:43 | |
depends on how many years. She has
been classed as a repeat offender. | 1:30:43 | 1:30:47 | |
We will see where it goes. What do
you want from Boris Johnson? He made | 1:30:47 | 1:30:50 | |
a statement to Parliament and we say
things sometimes that we don't quite | 1:30:50 | 1:30:54 | |
get right and I have said them in
interviews as well, but he can in | 1:30:54 | 1:30:58 | |
Parliament correct it and I think
the important thing to, rather than | 1:30:58 | 1:31:01 | |
a private phone call to the Foreign
Minister, is in Parliament to say | 1:31:01 | 1:31:05 | |
listen, Nazanin is innocent. She is
a mother on holiday and she wasn't | 1:31:05 | 1:31:09 | |
training journalist. That's clear.
It is clear to the Iranians and it | 1:31:09 | 1:31:12 | |
can't be man. Lated in the way that
the Iranian press have been doing | 1:31:12 | 1:31:16 | |
since. Are you comfortable to see
him stay in his job? It is not my | 1:31:16 | 1:31:22 | |
place to say what should happen with
the Foreign Secretary and I don't... | 1:31:22 | 1:31:26 | |
Is he good enough to be Foreign
Secretary? I have only interest in | 1:31:26 | 1:31:31 | |
one foreign policy and that is
Nazanin and I am no no judge on | 1:31:31 | 1:31:34 | |
anything else. I am glad he engaged
with Nazanin's case last week and I | 1:31:34 | 1:31:38 | |
am glad he condemned Iran. I
wouldn't want him to back away. I | 1:31:38 | 1:31:44 | |
want him to continue doing what he
can to get her home. Daisy, what do | 1:31:44 | 1:31:49 | |
you think? Boris buffoony is only
one element of what's going on in | 1:31:49 | 1:31:54 | |
Westminster. It is the one element
that has an impact on your family. | 1:31:54 | 1:31:57 | |
The fact that he hasn't yet publicly
changed that statement I find | 1:31:57 | 1:32:02 | |
extraordinary. Sew said I'm going to
call the Iranians, but hasn't said I | 1:32:02 | 1:32:09 | |
got it categorically wrong and she
wasn't there training journalists. | 1:32:09 | 1:32:11 | |
We know he has got a massive track
record of buffoonish comments and | 1:32:11 | 1:32:17 | |
the lack of detail, but normally in
the past it has been hanging off a | 1:32:17 | 1:32:21 | |
zip wire and it hasn't affected
anyone and it has been a laugh. This | 1:32:21 | 1:32:24 | |
is not a laugh. This issier serious
and this is one of the reasons why | 1:32:24 | 1:32:29 | |
people were worried when he got this
position because his knowledge of | 1:32:29 | 1:32:32 | |
detail or ability to remember detail
sometimes has failed him in the past | 1:32:32 | 1:32:35 | |
and is doing so again. As Foreign
Secretary, can you be across every | 1:32:35 | 1:32:43 | |
detail? No, but this is a huge story
that has been running for a long | 1:32:43 | 1:32:50 | |
time, an innocent woman being held
in Iran. He should have known how | 1:32:50 | 1:32:53 | |
dangerous it would be if he got it
wrong which Egypt. He is one of many | 1:32:53 | 1:32:58 | |
Cabinet ministers making a hash of
the job at the moment. How is your | 1:32:58 | 1:33:02 | |
wife at the moment? Very shaken on
Saturday, she had just come out of | 1:33:02 | 1:33:08 | |
the court. It is what has happened
and the previous times being back in | 1:33:08 | 1:33:13 | |
solitary. I spoke to her on Sunday
and she was calmer. It is the | 1:33:13 | 1:33:18 | |
disorientation and a fear of what
this will mean. I promised her we | 1:33:18 | 1:33:21 | |
will keep going. Thank you very much
for coming on the programme. | 1:33:21 | 1:33:25 | |
We will talk about an exclusive
interview we will bring you now with | 1:33:25 | 1:33:32 | |
a woman seeking what is thought to
be the UK's first crowd funded | 1:33:32 | 1:33:37 | |
private rape prosecution. She tells
us she hopes to lead the way for | 1:33:37 | 1:33:41 | |
those let down by the courts. Emily
Hunt claimed she was drugged and | 1:33:41 | 1:33:47 | |
raped in 2015. Police investigated,
the CPS felt there was insufficient | 1:33:47 | 1:33:49 | |
evidence to proceed. She has hired a
barrister who believes there are | 1:33:49 | 1:33:55 | |
grounds for a criminal prosecution.
She has waived her right to | 1:33:55 | 1:33:59 | |
anonymity to talk to us this
morning. Some of the conversation is | 1:33:59 | 1:34:03 | |
of a graphic nature and you might
not want children to hear. | 1:34:03 | 1:34:10 | |
When I woke up, I had
never seen him before. | 1:34:10 | 1:34:13 | |
I was on a hotel bed. | 1:34:13 | 1:34:14 | |
Basically, I woke up cold
and with a sheet on me that had | 1:34:14 | 1:34:17 | |
a really particular texture to it. | 1:34:17 | 1:34:19 | |
I knew it wasn't mine. | 1:34:19 | 1:34:20 | |
Did you have any clothes on? | 1:34:20 | 1:34:22 | |
No, I was completely naked. | 1:34:22 | 1:34:23 | |
And I didn't know
what was happening. | 1:34:23 | 1:34:27 | |
And then I looked over my shoulder
and I saw this man sitting | 1:34:27 | 1:34:31 | |
on the hotel bed, leaning up
against the headboard, | 1:34:31 | 1:34:35 | |
flipping channels and watching TV. | 1:34:35 | 1:34:37 | |
And I'd never seen him
before in my life, ever. | 1:34:37 | 1:34:42 | |
What condition were you in? | 1:34:42 | 1:34:49 | |
I was kind of in and out
for a little while. | 1:34:49 | 1:34:56 | |
When I finally, properly, came to, | 1:34:56 | 1:34:58 | |
I pretty quickly had this light bulb
moment that I'd been drugged. | 1:34:58 | 1:35:01 | |
I'd never felt like that before. | 1:35:01 | 1:35:03 | |
I'd never lost five hours of my life
completely and totally, | 1:35:03 | 1:35:07 | |
and wound up somewhere I didn't know
how I'd got there with someone | 1:35:07 | 1:35:11 | |
I'd never seen before. | 1:35:11 | 1:35:12 | |
What condition was he in? | 1:35:12 | 1:35:13 | |
He seemed quite relaxed. | 1:35:13 | 1:35:14 | |
He was just watching TV,
kind of laughing along. | 1:35:14 | 1:35:18 | |
Was he compos mentis, sober? | 1:35:18 | 1:35:20 | |
Yes, he was. | 1:35:20 | 1:35:21 | |
He seemed sober at the time and then
I found out later that he hadn't | 1:35:21 | 1:35:25 | |
even had a drop of alcohol. | 1:35:25 | 1:35:26 | |
He was completely sober. | 1:35:26 | 1:35:27 | |
What did you say? | 1:35:27 | 1:35:28 | |
What did you do? | 1:35:28 | 1:35:29 | |
I'm a bit fuzzy on that, actually. | 1:35:29 | 1:35:36 | |
I know that I sort of leaned
over, got my things. | 1:35:36 | 1:35:38 | |
They were in a pile next
to me on the floor. | 1:35:38 | 1:35:41 | |
I gathered up my belongings
and my handbag and went | 1:35:41 | 1:35:45 | |
into the bathroom and kind of hid
for at least ten minutes. | 1:35:45 | 1:35:49 | |
I phoned a friend and said,
"There's something really | 1:35:49 | 1:35:51 | |
wrong going on here. | 1:35:51 | 1:35:52 | |
I don't feel OK. | 1:35:52 | 1:35:53 | |
I feel in a way I've never felt
before and there's this guy." | 1:35:53 | 1:35:57 | |
And my friend rang the police. | 1:35:57 | 1:35:59 | |
Yeah. | 1:35:59 | 1:36:01 | |
Do you have any memory of how
you ended up in that hotel room | 1:36:01 | 1:36:05 | |
on that Sunday afternoon? | 1:36:05 | 1:36:06 | |
No. | 1:36:06 | 1:36:07 | |
The very last thing I remember
is having lunch with my dad. | 1:36:07 | 1:36:10 | |
We were in a local restaurant
we go to quite a lot | 1:36:10 | 1:36:13 | |
and we were having lunch. | 1:36:13 | 1:36:16 | |
And then the conversation went
a bit weird, and that's | 1:36:16 | 1:36:20 | |
the last thing I remember. | 1:36:20 | 1:36:25 | |
Later, much, much later,
you learned that this man had | 1:36:25 | 1:36:29 | |
in fact had sex with you. | 1:36:29 | 1:36:31 | |
You say he raped you. | 1:36:31 | 1:36:33 | |
And your argument was that it was
rape because there was no way | 1:36:33 | 1:36:37 | |
you could have consented
because of the condition | 1:36:37 | 1:36:39 | |
you were in. | 1:36:39 | 1:36:39 | |
So, when I woke up and was obviously
upset, hid in the bathroom. | 1:36:39 | 1:36:43 | |
When I came back out, I guess
he was trying to reassure me. | 1:36:43 | 1:36:46 | |
He said that nothing had happened. | 1:36:46 | 1:36:51 | |
I didn't find out until two days
later when the police finally | 1:36:51 | 1:36:57 | |
told me that he had said there had
been sex, but in his opinion, | 1:36:57 | 1:37:00 | |
it had been consensual. | 1:37:00 | 1:37:02 | |
On the night, in the hotel room,
because the police had | 1:37:02 | 1:37:05 | |
the hotel room immediately,
they had found used condoms. | 1:37:05 | 1:37:07 | |
That was the first I'd heard of it. | 1:37:07 | 1:37:09 | |
How did you react to it? | 1:37:09 | 1:37:10 | |
I was devastated. | 1:37:10 | 1:37:13 | |
I was really hoping
that he was telling the truth. | 1:37:13 | 1:37:18 | |
I probably knew he wasn't telling
the truth but denial | 1:37:18 | 1:37:22 | |
is a really strong thing. | 1:37:22 | 1:37:25 | |
It was terrifying to know,
for certain, that I'd been raped | 1:37:25 | 1:37:30 | |
and then the police hadn't told me
for two days. | 1:37:30 | 1:37:36 | |
I had to get all my
own after-rape care. | 1:37:36 | 1:37:38 | |
I had to get the morning after pill. | 1:37:38 | 1:37:40 | |
I had to go get protection
against sexually transmitted | 1:37:40 | 1:37:42 | |
diseases because the police hadn't
done any of that for me. | 1:37:42 | 1:37:49 | |
You also learned that this man had
filmed you naked and unconscious | 1:37:49 | 1:37:51 | |
on the bed and he'd masturbated
while you slept. | 1:37:51 | 1:37:54 | |
Yeah. | 1:37:54 | 1:37:55 | |
I actually didn't learn
that for about a year. | 1:37:55 | 1:37:57 | |
The police didn't tell me
until a year after the incident. | 1:37:57 | 1:38:02 | |
How did that make you feel? | 1:38:02 | 1:38:04 | |
I had a lot of difficulty
going through all of this. | 1:38:04 | 1:38:11 | |
I felt... | 1:38:11 | 1:38:14 | |
How could I have made my appeal? | 1:38:14 | 1:38:16 | |
When the CPS decided not
to charge, I appealed. | 1:38:16 | 1:38:19 | |
I couldn't make the appeal properly
because I didn't know two | 1:38:19 | 1:38:22 | |
really important things. | 1:38:22 | 1:38:27 | |
The first being that he had had no
alcohol in his system. | 1:38:27 | 1:38:31 | |
The second being that,
when he was arrested, | 1:38:31 | 1:38:33 | |
he had Viagra in his possession. | 1:38:33 | 1:38:36 | |
I don't know about you, but I can't
really imagine that a single guy, | 1:38:36 | 1:38:39 | |
walking around and going to a pub
on a Sunday afternoon | 1:38:39 | 1:38:42 | |
on his own would need Viagra
if he had no nefarious plans. | 1:38:42 | 1:38:45 | |
And then the final one was finding
out about the video. | 1:38:45 | 1:38:48 | |
I would have pushed the CPS
to investigate that | 1:38:48 | 1:38:52 | |
further, and they did. | 1:38:52 | 1:38:54 | |
They did an appeal on it. | 1:38:54 | 1:39:02 | |
Somewhat disturbingly, it turns out
that filming me while I was naked | 1:39:02 | 1:39:05 | |
and I am told unconscious. | 1:39:05 | 1:39:06 | |
It's clear I am unconscious
and not asleep. | 1:39:06 | 1:39:08 | |
You've not seen this footage? | 1:39:08 | 1:39:11 | |
They offered, and I
politely declined. | 1:39:11 | 1:39:13 | |
I don't need to see that. | 1:39:13 | 1:39:14 | |
There are no naked
pictures of me that exist. | 1:39:14 | 1:39:16 | |
I really don't want to see that. | 1:39:16 | 1:39:19 | |
But I'm told I'm quite
obviously unconscious. | 1:39:19 | 1:39:27 | |
The Crown Prosecution Service did
review whether or not any laws | 1:39:27 | 1:39:30 | |
were broken and they say
none were broken. | 1:39:30 | 1:39:32 | |
Toxicology tests showed you had two
times over the drink-drive | 1:39:32 | 1:39:34 | |
limit of alcohol in you. | 1:39:34 | 1:39:35 | |
Yeah. | 1:39:35 | 1:39:37 | |
They came back negative for any
signs of, for example, GHB, | 1:39:37 | 1:39:40 | |
which is the date rape drug. | 1:39:40 | 1:39:44 | |
There is CCTV footage of you,
and your alleged attacker, | 1:39:44 | 1:39:48 | |
leaving a bar, kissing and holding
hands as you walked to the hotel. | 1:39:48 | 1:39:51 | |
Do you remember any of that? | 1:39:51 | 1:39:52 | |
None. | 1:39:52 | 1:39:53 | |
I don't remember anything at all. | 1:39:53 | 1:39:55 | |
It's like I said earlier,
the first time I met him | 1:39:55 | 1:39:57 | |
was when I woke up naked
next to him. | 1:39:57 | 1:40:00 | |
So, I think I was drugged. | 1:40:00 | 1:40:03 | |
There are a couple of reasons why
the toxicology report is flawed. | 1:40:03 | 1:40:06 | |
It's something I've asked both
the police and the CPS | 1:40:06 | 1:40:08 | |
to address, and they haven't. | 1:40:08 | 1:40:11 | |
It turns out the Metropolitan Police
gave the toxicology lab | 1:40:11 | 1:40:14 | |
the wrong timeline,
which is a really big deal. | 1:40:14 | 1:40:16 | |
So, my last memory is around 4pm. | 1:40:16 | 1:40:18 | |
The time they gave
to the lab is 7pm. | 1:40:18 | 1:40:23 | |
The CPS say they looked at the CCTV
footage and considered the fact | 1:40:23 | 1:40:30 | |
the toxicology tests were negative
for any drugs, other than alcohol, | 1:40:30 | 1:40:32 | |
and made the decision there wasn't
enough evidence to proceed | 1:40:32 | 1:40:35 | |
with the case. | 1:40:35 | 1:40:36 | |
The Met says they carried out
a thorough investigation | 1:40:36 | 1:40:44 | |
following your allegations,
confirming that the CPS concluded | 1:40:44 | 1:40:45 | |
there was insufficient evidence
to bring a prosecution. | 1:40:45 | 1:40:47 | |
They talk about the fact
you subsequently made a number | 1:40:47 | 1:40:50 | |
of complaints to the Met
about your investigation. | 1:40:50 | 1:40:52 | |
They were passed to the IPCC,
that is the Independent | 1:40:52 | 1:40:54 | |
Complaints Commission. | 1:40:54 | 1:40:55 | |
That was independently
reviewed and not upheld. | 1:40:55 | 1:41:01 | |
You are now crowdfunding in order
to bring a private prosecution | 1:41:01 | 1:41:04 | |
against your alleged attacker. | 1:41:04 | 1:41:05 | |
Why? | 1:41:05 | 1:41:10 | |
There's a couple of reasons. | 1:41:10 | 1:41:12 | |
Again, the first one
being that the toxicology is flawed. | 1:41:12 | 1:41:14 | |
You can't make a decision
on whether or not I'd had enough | 1:41:14 | 1:41:18 | |
alcohol for a straightforward
consent case, based | 1:41:18 | 1:41:20 | |
on flawed toxicology. | 1:41:20 | 1:41:21 | |
How will you prove it's flawed? | 1:41:21 | 1:41:25 | |
Giving the lab the correct time will
change the way they do the maths, | 1:41:25 | 1:41:28 | |
to figure out what my levels were. | 1:41:28 | 1:41:30 | |
That, in itself, should
substantially help my case. | 1:41:30 | 1:41:35 | |
The second one is that the CCTV does
show me all over him. | 1:41:35 | 1:41:40 | |
I'm told that's a really common
effect of mixing alcohol and GHB, | 1:41:40 | 1:41:43 | |
that it has an ectasy-like quality. | 1:41:43 | 1:41:45 | |
The other thing the CCTV
shows me is me literally | 1:41:45 | 1:41:48 | |
falling over on a bench,
swaying, being very, | 1:41:48 | 1:41:55 | |
very clearly intoxicated. | 1:41:55 | 1:41:57 | |
With whatever I was intoxicated on, | 1:41:57 | 1:41:59 | |
it's very clear that I am not
remotely sober, and he is. | 1:41:59 | 1:42:02 | |
The toxicology again says he hadn't
had so much as a sip of alcohol. | 1:42:02 | 1:42:05 | |
So, there is that
side of it as well. | 1:42:05 | 1:42:08 | |
How would a private prosecution
work in practical terms? | 1:42:08 | 1:42:12 | |
It's an amazing thing. | 1:42:12 | 1:42:16 | |
In the UK, we can, as individuals,
hire a barrister to bring a criminal | 1:42:16 | 1:42:21 | |
charge, which isn't something I knew
before any of this happened to me. | 1:42:21 | 1:42:24 | |
And it basically goes forward,
like any other criminal case. | 1:42:24 | 1:42:30 | |
You have to gather all the evidence,
you have to submit in the same way | 1:42:30 | 1:42:34 | |
you would with the Crown doing it. | 1:42:34 | 1:42:36 | |
In some cases, the Crown
does take it back over | 1:42:36 | 1:42:39 | |
and they take it forward. | 1:42:39 | 1:42:43 | |
But it is an amazing thing that we,
as individuals, can actually bring | 1:42:43 | 1:42:46 | |
a criminal charge in a case
where the system has let us | 1:42:46 | 1:42:49 | |
down, which can result
in a rapist going to jail. | 1:42:49 | 1:42:54 | |
You must have considered
an alternative version of events, | 1:42:54 | 1:43:00 | |
which is, you were really drunk,
and you had sex with a man | 1:43:00 | 1:43:04 | |
and woke up thinking,
"Oh, my gosh, what have I done?" | 1:43:04 | 1:43:09 | |
Even if I was not drugged,
and I do believe I was, | 1:43:09 | 1:43:13 | |
even if I was not drugged,
I would have been completely | 1:43:13 | 1:43:15 | |
incapable of giving consent,
even if it were just alcohol. | 1:43:15 | 1:43:19 | |
Alcohol is very powerful, you know? | 1:43:19 | 1:43:22 | |
There are quite a few people who had
a little bit too much | 1:43:22 | 1:43:27 | |
to drink and done something
that they regretted. | 1:43:27 | 1:43:30 | |
I don't know about you,
but if I have a little | 1:43:30 | 1:43:36 | |
bit too much to drink,
inevitably, things go a bit fuzzy | 1:43:36 | 1:43:38 | |
but I remember the most
embarrassing thing. | 1:43:38 | 1:43:40 | |
In this case, I have a complete
and total five-hour chunk | 1:43:40 | 1:43:43 | |
of my memory missing,
which is absolutely terrifying. | 1:43:43 | 1:43:47 | |
And again, even if it were just
alcohol, given the CCTV footage | 1:43:47 | 1:43:50 | |
of me unable to stand,
my arms are wrapped around him, | 1:43:50 | 1:43:56 | |
which you can interpret as flirty,
absolutely, but I'm also using him | 1:43:56 | 1:43:59 | |
to stand up. | 1:43:59 | 1:44:00 | |
There is no way I could have given
consent in a state like that, | 1:44:00 | 1:44:03 | |
even if it were just alcohol. | 1:44:03 | 1:44:05 | |
What ultimately do you want? | 1:44:05 | 1:44:07 | |
That's a big question. | 1:44:07 | 1:44:11 | |
I want a couple of things. | 1:44:11 | 1:44:16 | |
The first thing is I want rape to be
a prosecutable offence in the UK. | 1:44:16 | 1:44:20 | |
Right now, statistics show it's not. | 1:44:20 | 1:44:21 | |
Under 15% of rapes in
the UK are recorded. | 1:44:21 | 1:44:24 | |
Of that 15%, conviction
rates are abysmal. | 1:44:24 | 1:44:25 | |
They're in single digits. | 1:44:25 | 1:44:27 | |
People give up at some point
when speaking to the police. | 1:44:27 | 1:44:30 | |
The police do not pass all cases
to the CPS and the CPS does not | 1:44:30 | 1:44:33 | |
take all cases forward. | 1:44:33 | 1:44:35 | |
I recognise that their mandate
is to take forward cases | 1:44:35 | 1:44:37 | |
that they feel 100% that they could
win and they say that is part | 1:44:37 | 1:44:41 | |
of the public interest. | 1:44:41 | 1:44:44 | |
I strongly believe that if they had
redone the toxicology report | 1:44:44 | 1:44:47 | |
with the proper timeline,
that my case would be pretty much | 1:44:47 | 1:44:50 | |
100% winnable because you'd have
clear proof I couldn't consent. | 1:44:50 | 1:44:54 | |
No matter how many times
I have reminded them | 1:44:54 | 1:44:57 | |
that they still haven't redone
the numbers on the toxicology | 1:44:57 | 1:44:59 | |
report, they haven't done it,
and that, for me, is my strongest | 1:44:59 | 1:45:02 | |
bit of evidence. | 1:45:02 | 1:45:04 | |
In addition to that,
there is the CCTV of me falling over | 1:45:04 | 1:45:06 | |
and the fact he wasn't drinking. | 1:45:06 | 1:45:09 | |
What I want most is my
rapist to go to jail. | 1:45:09 | 1:45:14 | |
I'm not going to
pretend anything else. | 1:45:14 | 1:45:16 | |
The thing I want after that is for
other women in my situation who have | 1:45:16 | 1:45:20 | |
been let down to be able to have
justice against their | 1:45:20 | 1:45:23 | |
rapists and, for them, | 1:45:23 | 1:45:24 | |
to be able to go forward
and put their rapists in jail. | 1:45:24 | 1:45:28 | |
That is why with our
Go Fund Me page, we are | 1:45:28 | 1:45:31 | |
looking to raise £100,000. | 1:45:31 | 1:45:36 | |
That, as far as I'm aware,
is about as much as it will take | 1:45:36 | 1:45:39 | |
for two cases to go
forward from the start. | 1:45:39 | 1:45:44 | |
Emily Hunt in her bid to raise
£100,000 in order to fund a private | 1:45:44 | 1:45:49 | |
rape prosecution. | 1:45:49 | 1:45:52 | |
If you're black - you're eight times
more likely to be stopped | 1:45:53 | 1:45:56 | |
and searched by a police officer
than any other ethnic group. | 1:45:56 | 1:45:58 | |
Although it has been used around
300,000 times across England | 1:45:58 | 1:46:01 | |
and Wales in the past year,
only 17% of those lead | 1:46:01 | 1:46:03 | |
to an actual arrest. | 1:46:03 | 1:46:04 | |
For innocent people being stopped
in the street can be | 1:46:04 | 1:46:07 | |
scary and intimidating
and for some, it can lead | 1:46:07 | 1:46:09 | |
to distrust of police officers. | 1:46:09 | 1:46:17 | |
The country's biggest
force, the Met, | 1:46:17 | 1:46:20 | |
say its vital to reduce knife crime
- 21 teenagers have been killed | 1:46:20 | 1:46:23 | |
in london alone so far this year -
15 were stabbed to death. | 1:46:23 | 1:46:26 | |
Our reporter Noel Phillips
was stopped and searched twice | 1:46:26 | 1:46:28 | |
within a few months. | 1:46:28 | 1:46:30 | |
After he complained about his
treatment the Met apologised. | 1:46:30 | 1:46:35 | |
We bought you his full film earlier,
here's a short extract. | 1:46:35 | 1:46:42 | |
RADIO: The person with a knife
punched the informant in the face. | 1:46:42 | 1:46:45 | |
We're going to a call to a shop
in the south of the borough. | 1:46:45 | 1:46:49 | |
We're on patrol with
the Metropolitan Police's Rapid | 1:46:49 | 1:46:52 | |
Response Unit in North London. | 1:46:52 | 1:46:53 | |
One of those has pulled a knife out,
a flick knife out, and threatened | 1:46:53 | 1:46:56 | |
a shopkeeper with it. | 1:46:56 | 1:46:57 | |
So, we've got a description. | 1:46:57 | 1:46:59 | |
It's a white, 13 to 14-year-old,
grey tracksuit with blonde hair. | 1:46:59 | 1:47:03 | |
We've been given rare access
into one of their most | 1:47:03 | 1:47:05 | |
controversial powers,
stop and search. | 1:47:05 | 1:47:10 | |
I'm sure the officer has explained
you are being searched | 1:47:10 | 1:47:13 | |
because there has been an incident
when someone produced a flick | 1:47:13 | 1:47:15 | |
knife on a shop keeper. | 1:47:15 | 1:47:17 | |
What's your first name? | 1:47:17 | 1:47:18 | |
Officers stopped a 16-year-old,
who matches the description. | 1:47:18 | 1:47:19 | |
Sorry for the inconvenience.
We'll only keep you a minute. | 1:47:19 | 1:47:22 | |
We'll just get this sorted. | 1:47:22 | 1:47:23 | |
But, his 15-year-old friend
who is black, is being arrested. | 1:47:23 | 1:47:26 | |
Space for one juvenile male, please. | 1:47:26 | 1:47:29 | |
So, basically, we're
using our powers for weapons. | 1:47:29 | 1:47:33 | |
A flick knife, obviously,
being a weapon. | 1:47:33 | 1:47:37 | |
In this case, we found drugs on this
boy, so he's been arrested. | 1:47:37 | 1:47:40 | |
The other one has nothing
illegal, so we're just | 1:47:40 | 1:47:43 | |
going to get his details. | 1:47:43 | 1:47:44 | |
He'll be on his way. | 1:47:44 | 1:47:45 | |
Mate, stop walking away.
Stop walking away. | 1:47:45 | 1:47:47 | |
Overall figures to stop and search
shows an overall reduction | 1:47:47 | 1:47:49 | |
in the powers being used. | 1:47:49 | 1:47:51 | |
But, according to Home Office
figures, if you're black, | 1:47:51 | 1:47:53 | |
you're eight times more likely to be
stop and searched compared | 1:47:53 | 1:47:55 | |
to any other ethnic group. | 1:47:55 | 1:48:01 | |
I also know what it feels like to be
stopped and searched. | 1:48:01 | 1:48:05 | |
In fact, the most recent is at this
very spot where I'm standing. | 1:48:05 | 1:48:09 | |
Now I remember four plainclothes
officers approaching me. | 1:48:09 | 1:48:13 | |
It was all so sudden,
all so unexpected. | 1:48:13 | 1:48:15 | |
They asked me what I was doing. | 1:48:15 | 1:48:18 | |
I pointed in that direction and said
I was on my way home. | 1:48:18 | 1:48:21 | |
And yet I was still searched. | 1:48:21 | 1:48:24 | |
Your behaviour... | 1:48:24 | 1:48:26 | |
How you was on your bike. | 1:48:26 | 1:48:28 | |
Your behaviour when you
were on this bike... | 1:48:28 | 1:48:30 | |
Sorry, I'm allowed to film. | 1:48:30 | 1:48:33 | |
At that point, the officer
took my phone and stopped me | 1:48:33 | 1:48:37 | |
recording what was happening
and I was detained and searched. | 1:48:37 | 1:48:47 | |
We're going to put some gloves on. | 1:48:49 | 1:48:51 | |
We're not looking to
blanket search black men. | 1:48:51 | 1:48:53 | |
We're looking to search gang
members, people that we get | 1:48:53 | 1:48:55 | |
calls for service that
describe the suspect. | 1:48:55 | 1:48:57 | |
If we see someone who matches that
description, they're | 1:48:57 | 1:48:59 | |
going to be searched. | 1:48:59 | 1:49:00 | |
Noel Phillips reporting there. | 1:49:00 | 1:49:01 | |
You can see the full version of that
report at bbc.co.uk/victoria. | 1:49:01 | 1:49:04 | |
Let's talk to Janet Hills,
Chair of the Metropolitan Black | 1:49:04 | 1:49:06 | |
Police Association who spent
24 years in the Met. | 1:49:06 | 1:49:16 | |
Gwenton Sloley who now
trains police officers | 1:49:24 | 1:49:26 | |
at the Met and other forces on how
to use their stop and search powers. | 1:49:26 | 1:49:29 | |
He is also the Director
of the charity Crying Sons. | 1:49:29 | 1:49:32 | |
And Lillian and Paul Barnes whose
son Quamari was the second teenager | 1:49:32 | 1:49:35 | |
to be stabbed to death
in London this year. | 1:49:35 | 1:49:37 | |
He died on 23rd January. | 1:49:37 | 1:49:38 | |
Quamari was stabbed to death
outside his school in Kensal Green. | 1:49:38 | 1:49:41 | |
His murderer was sentenced last week
for a minimum of 14 years. | 1:49:41 | 1:49:43 | |
Paul says if stop and search can
stop the killings then it | 1:49:43 | 1:49:46 | |
has his full support. | 1:49:46 | 1:49:47 | |
We are going to talk to a viewer who
got in touch. He is in high Wycombe. | 1:49:47 | 1:49:51 | |
Thank you for talking to us. I want
to ask all of you this one simple | 1:49:51 | 1:49:55 | |
question. Have you been stopped and
searched? Yes. How many times? | 1:49:55 | 1:50:03 | |
Recently, not as much as
historically. Over your lifetime? | 1:50:03 | 1:50:07 | |
About 20 times. Janet, have you been
stopped and searched? Yes. I have it | 1:50:07 | 1:50:13 | |
has been in my car, but it amounts
to the same thing. Were you a police | 1:50:13 | 1:50:17 | |
officer at the time? Yes, I was.
Wow. Paul have you been stopped and | 1:50:17 | 1:50:22 | |
searched Uncountable times. Not
recently. Not in the last seven | 1:50:22 | 1:50:31 | |
years since I moved out of Croydon,
when I grew up in cou dorntion | 1:50:31 | 1:50:36 | |
countless times. You will know that
the commissioner of the Met says | 1:50:36 | 1:50:39 | |
there is a link between stop and
search and reducing knife crime. Do | 1:50:39 | 1:50:44 | |
you Lillian and Paul, do you think
she is right? A little bit. A little | 1:50:44 | 1:50:51 | |
bit. Personally, I think, yeah. Stop
and search has your support? Yeah, | 1:50:51 | 1:51:00 | |
fully. If it's going to stop all the
killings out there because it has | 1:51:00 | 1:51:06 | |
been ridiculous this year. So if
it's going to stop the killings it | 1:51:06 | 1:51:10 | |
has got my full support 101%. What
about you, Lillian? I'm concerned | 1:51:10 | 1:51:14 | |
about how stop and search is carried
out. So if they are going to use | 1:51:14 | 1:51:21 | |
this as a weapon towards fighting
knife crime, then it has to be done | 1:51:21 | 1:51:26 | |
reasonably and we do have to have
transparency and we do need to know | 1:51:26 | 1:51:35 | |
that the information, the statistics
on stops that they are carrying out: | 1:51:35 | 1:51:38 | |
In order to be able to hold anybody
accountable in the end? Yes. You | 1:51:38 | 1:51:43 | |
train Met officers. You are a former
gang member yourself. You turned | 1:51:43 | 1:51:47 | |
Home Office advisor. When can an
officer stop somebody? It's not | 1:51:47 | 1:51:52 | |
when, it is how you do it. I myself
support stop and search, but it's | 1:51:52 | 1:51:57 | |
about how you make that person feel
when you're stopping and searching | 1:51:57 | 1:52:00 | |
them. It is about when as well
because you have to have reasonable | 1:52:00 | 1:52:04 | |
suspicion as an officer? Yes,
definitely. That's why we shouldn't | 1:52:04 | 1:52:09 | |
base our stuff on the intelligence
we get from the Matrix. There is a | 1:52:09 | 1:52:13 | |
lot of components from the Matrix.
What is that? The police have a | 1:52:13 | 1:52:17 | |
database which is called the police
Matrix which tracks gang members, | 1:52:17 | 1:52:21 | |
but it doesn't track drug dealers
and other people in the community | 1:52:21 | 1:52:25 | |
that's committing crimes. So if we
are just going to look at one | 1:52:25 | 1:52:29 | |
component of the Matrix we will
continue to get it wrong. We need to | 1:52:29 | 1:52:34 | |
have the right intelligence to
target the right people that are | 1:52:34 | 1:52:37 | |
carrying knives and if we look at
the consequence of these young | 1:52:37 | 1:52:41 | |
people carrying knifes it has become
part of their uniform. A lot of | 1:52:41 | 1:52:46 | |
young people feeling pressured into
carrying knives, might welcome a | 1:52:46 | 1:52:50 | |
stop and search because it will stop
them doing the crime that they don't | 1:52:50 | 1:52:53 | |
want to do in the first place. Some
young people might welcome the stop | 1:52:53 | 1:52:58 | |
and search if they are carrying a
knife because it will take the knife | 1:52:58 | 1:53:01 | |
from them? Listen, I carried a
knife, yeah and I didn't want to | 1:53:01 | 1:53:06 | |
ever use a knife, does that make
sense? It was only when I was in a | 1:53:06 | 1:53:10 | |
situation that I could have used it
and I didn't use it, I gave up that | 1:53:10 | 1:53:14 | |
right. Stop and search, I'm not
against, back to how you make the | 1:53:14 | 1:53:19 | |
young people feel, when I was 13 and
14 and I committed no crime and I | 1:53:19 | 1:53:23 | |
was getting stopped and searched by
the police, it made me feel I had no | 1:53:23 | 1:53:27 | |
rights. It goes back to educating.
Tomorrow I have got a youth club and | 1:53:27 | 1:53:31 | |
I have got a person who works for
the Met coming in to discuss with | 1:53:31 | 1:53:38 | |
your people they're rights when
getting stopped and searched. It | 1:53:38 | 1:53:41 | |
froze at the end. We got the gist of
when you said you were carrying a | 1:53:41 | 1:53:46 | |
knife. Do you agree with the
Commissioner that there is a link | 1:53:46 | 1:53:49 | |
between stop and searches, the
number of them and a reduction in | 1:53:49 | 1:53:52 | |
knife crime? I believe that stop and
search can be used as an effective | 1:53:52 | 1:53:58 | |
tool by police officers to try and
combat knife crime. I think that is | 1:53:58 | 1:54:03 | |
key, but it's part, it should be
part of a package of measures, not | 1:54:03 | 1:54:09 | |
solely relied upon to reduce knife
crime. There are a lot of reasons | 1:54:09 | 1:54:15 | |
that will be society wise based,
peer pressures, education, what the | 1:54:15 | 1:54:21 | |
young man is talking about, which,
you know, needs to be a package of | 1:54:21 | 1:54:25 | |
measures that everyone is involved
in and multi-agency approach which | 1:54:25 | 1:54:31 | |
applies to try and reduce the amount
of knife crime there is in London. | 1:54:31 | 1:54:36 | |
I wonder if I can ask you Lillian
and Paul to explain to our audience, | 1:54:36 | 1:54:41 | |
most of whom will never have
experienced what you have this year, | 1:54:41 | 1:54:44 | |
what it is like when you lose a son
who is fatally stabbed outside his | 1:54:44 | 1:54:49 | |
school? It's devastating. Everything
changes. Your outlook on life | 1:54:49 | 1:54:57 | |
changes. What's important changes as
well. For me, it's a daily process. | 1:54:57 | 1:55:07 | |
It's not something that you can get
over straightaway. It's not | 1:55:07 | 1:55:13 | |
something that you can even forget.
Every time you wake up, that's the | 1:55:13 | 1:55:16 | |
first thing that comes to mind. What
about you, Paul It's a struggle. | 1:55:16 | 1:55:21 | |
It's a struggle. Every day, it's a
struggle. You wake up every morning, | 1:55:21 | 1:55:26 | |
we have pictures of him, you know,
it has been hard. It has been hard. | 1:55:26 | 1:55:32 | |
A very hard year so far. Very hard.
What would you say to anybody | 1:55:32 | 1:55:37 | |
watching or listening on social
media later, who carries a knife? | 1:55:37 | 1:55:43 | |
What would you say to them? I think
first of all, it's really, it's not | 1:55:43 | 1:55:48 | |
always straightforward. Someone can
carry a knife, but there is many | 1:55:48 | 1:55:52 | |
elements that lead them to take that
road in the first place and you | 1:55:52 | 1:55:58 | |
can't necessarily tell someone
something and they're going to just | 1:55:58 | 1:56:00 | |
do it, but I think education plays a
big part in that. This week, I went | 1:56:00 | 1:56:08 | |
to a mayor's summit with all heads
of education and the police as well | 1:56:08 | 1:56:16 | |
and I was quite astonished to find
out that how the safety of young | 1:56:16 | 1:56:22 | |
people is dealt with. It's not a
consistent approach throughout all | 1:56:22 | 1:56:27 | |
the different schools and I just
think that we need to get a hold of | 1:56:27 | 1:56:34 | |
things and people do need to
consider the well-being of the young | 1:56:34 | 1:56:38 | |
people and it's not just because
it's something to be ignored because | 1:56:38 | 1:56:43 | |
it's only affecting a particular
group of people. Yes. I understand. | 1:56:43 | 1:56:48 | |
You said it's about how police
officers stop and search. How should | 1:56:48 | 1:56:52 | |
they be stopping and searching? It's
a raising awareness of the young | 1:56:52 | 1:56:56 | |
people. Even if you don't find a
young person with a knife on the | 1:56:56 | 1:57:00 | |
occasion that you're stopping and
searching them, educate them on why | 1:57:00 | 1:57:04 | |
you're stopping and searching and
also we need to stop the cuddly | 1:57:04 | 1:57:08 | |
thing of, oh, don't carry a knife.
You need to explain what it means | 1:57:08 | 1:57:11 | |
when you carry a knife and you end
up using a knife, the ripple effect | 1:57:11 | 1:57:15 | |
that it has on the parents, and also
yourself because a lot of people are | 1:57:15 | 1:57:22 | |
walking around with a nightmare when
you are awake. Even though you might | 1:57:22 | 1:57:26 | |
have stabbed someone and got away
with it, your conscience will come | 1:57:26 | 1:57:29 | |
and deal with you in the day time.
We need to remind the young people | 1:57:29 | 1:57:34 | |
of that and the consequences of
walking around when you have | 1:57:34 | 1:57:38 | |
committed those horrific crimes.
David, an e-mail, I have to sub it. | 1:57:38 | 1:57:42 | |
"I have been a police officer for 30
years. I do not know how the police | 1:57:42 | 1:57:45 | |
would do their job and protect the
public they serve without stop and | 1:57:45 | 1:57:48 | |
search. I have recovered illegal
firearms, knives, playeded articles | 1:57:48 | 1:57:52 | |
and loads of thousands of pounds
worth of stolen goods." You are not | 1:57:52 | 1:57:57 | |
saying Janet Hills we need to stop
stop and search, you are saying what | 1:57:57 | 1:58:01 | |
briefly? From a national BPA
prospective, we are saying we | 1:58:01 | 1:58:05 | |
support the use, the lawful use of
stop and search and again, when | 1:58:05 | 1:58:10 | |
officers using it, what reassures
people and builds trust is the fact | 1:58:10 | 1:58:13 | |
that we're asking that the body worn
cameras are worn when those | 1:58:13 | 1:58:18 | |
engagements happen so it addresses
issues if that's what is being | 1:58:18 | 1:58:23 | |
alleged. Thank you, Paul and Janet,
thank you very much for coming on | 1:58:23 | 1:58:29 | |
the programme. Thank you for your
company. We're back tomorrow at 9am. | 1:58:29 | 1:58:33 | |
Have | 1:58:33 | 1:58:33 |