09/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Thursday,

it's 9 o'clock.

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

As Theresa May loses her second

minister in a week, her opponents

claim her government is in chaos.

Priti Patel resigned as

International Development Secretary

last night after all those

unauthorised meetings

with Israeli politicians.

The Prime Minister's colleagues say

that Mrs May has it under control.

Theresa May is in full charge

of this cabinet, and I have no doubt

at all her appointment today

will reflect the nature of that,

and we'll be able to get

on with our business.

As Theresa May works on another

reshuffle of her top team,

do you think she can withstand

this latest crisis?

Could virtual reality be used

to treat mental health conditions?

Tests are under way to see

whether VR can heal our minds

and help conquer anxieties

like fear of heights.

After that session I did go out

and put myself into some positions

where you are sort of facing

heights, and

I was really really surprised at how

differently I felt about it.

We will bring you that film at about

9:45am.

Plus, is the Government's

anti-radicalisation

programme worked?

Figures out later will show how many

far right and Islamist extremists

have been referred to the scheme.

Hello.

Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11am this morning.

If you're a Conservative voter,

are you worried about the latest

crisis to hit the Government

or are you confident Theresa May

has it under control.

What is your advice to Theresa May?

What would you suggest to her this

morning?

Also this morning, has owning

a pet changed your life?

A little later we'll be talking

to a group of people

who say their animals have made

a huge difference to them,

but we want to hear from you too -

and send us a picture!

You know I am partial to those!

Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning -

use the hashtag #VictoriaLive

and if you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Our top story today.

The Prime Minister will announce her

new International Development

Secretary today as she tries

to restore stability

to the Government after the second

resignation from her Cabinet

in a week.

Priti Patel stepped down last night

after more questions were raised

about meetings she held

during a personal trip to Israel.

Theresa May is facing calls

to replace her with someone

who backs Brexit to maintain

the delicate political

balance of the cabinet.

Our political correspondent

Alex Forsyth reports.

Arriving in London, Priti Patel

could have guessed her fate.

She had been summoned back

from Kenya by Number Ten,

an official trip to Africa cut

short.

She entered Downing Street

by the back door and left

having lost her job,

resigning after failing to disclose

details of unauthorised meetings

with Israeli politicians.

In her letter to the Prime

Minister, she said.

"I accept my actions fell below

the high standards that are expected

of a Secretary of State."

For the second time in just over

a week, Theresa May must now decide

how to fill a gap around

the top table.

Michael Fallon quit as defence

secretary last week over

his personal conduct.

This team was carefully chosen

to represent different

Tory views over Brexit,

and some are keen

that is maintained.

There is a divide between people

who want Brexit to mean

we are basically staying

within the EU.

They are essentially

the Remainers who are unchanged.

And they give a veneer of acceptance

but haven't truly accepted.

There are quite a lot of people

who were quite balanced

when they made the decision

as to which side to support,

who are now really rather

enthusiastic about Brexit

and want to get on with it properly.

Whatever the Prime Minister's

decision about who should

now sit in her Cabinet,

she will face intense

scrutiny over her choice.

Our political correspondent

Leila Nathoo is in Westminster.

How bad is this for Theresa May?

On

one hand Theresa May has managed to

stand some authority on the

situation. There were a couple of

days when it looked like Priti Patel

was going to walk away from these

claims with just a reprimand from

Downing Street. It was only after

these other allegations came to

light that she finally felt she had

to resign. In one sense Theresa May

is trying to get control of the

situation. She has the opportunity

now to make joints in the

replacement of Priti Patel, to try

and steadied the ship -- to make a

choice in the replacement of Priti

Patel. Her key ally Gavin Williamson

came into Michael Fallon's role.

There is no doubt this whole episode

gives ammunition to the opposition,

who are suggesting this looks like a

government in chaos and the wheels

are coming off this operation. We've

got two more Cabinet ministers under

pressure. Boris Johnson over

comments concerning a British

Iranian woman held in Teheran and

Damian Green who is also under

investigation over his conduct. This

is a very tricky political territory

for Theresa May and I think

reshuffles are difficult at the best

of times, let alone when this

government is so fragile.

If you are

a Conservative voter what is your

advice to Theresa May? If you vote

for other parties you are welcome to

give your advice as well.

Annita McVeigh is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

Police forces in England and Wales

are struggling to meet demand,

due to a surge in the number

of calls from members of the public.

A survey by the policing watchdog

says the service is under

"significant stress"

because of budget cuts,

although it says forces could help

by making further efficiencies.

Our home affairs correspondent

Danny Shaw reports.

If you report a crime this

is where your call is dealt with.

The control room.

It is the nerve centre

of police operations.

There are more than 8 million

999 calls every year,

with millions of others

on the non-emergency number, 101.

The inspector of constabulary says

that police are struggling to cope.

He says that problems

retaining control room staff

and an overreliance on outdated

technology are to blame.

Some requests for police

to deal with crimes,

including criminal damage

and assault, go unanswered.

In Devon and Cornwall,

many callers hang up

because they have to wait so long.

The control rooms are right at the

heart of what our police forces do.

The focus on getting that

right is really important

for chief constables,

and we encourage them

to continue with this.

The report into police

efficiency says the service

is under significant stress.

It says forces will spend 6% less

on policing in the next three years

and will lose more than 4,000

officers and staff from

the police workforce.

That is why many chief constables

say they need extra resources

to deal with the increased demand.

Mike Cunningham says it

would be a good thing

for police to have more money,

but he says the service needs

to show the benefits

extra funding will bring,

and he says there is scope

for forces to use their existing

resources more efficiently.

The First Minister of Wales,

Carwyn Jones, is to issue

a statement today amid criticism

of the way he handled

misconduct allegations

against a Welsh cabinet member,

who is believed to have

taken his own life.

The family of Carl Sargeant -

who'd been accused of

inappropriate touching -

says he was denied natural justice

because he wasn't given details

of the allegations which led

to his sacking.

Our reporter Tomos Morgan

is at the Welsh Assembly

for us this morning.

Do you have any idea what we are

expecting to hear from Carwyn Jones?

Sorry, I'm told we don't have Tomos

at the moment but will bring you

more on that story later.

British officials will travel

to Brussels for further

Brexit talks today.

It's the first set of negotiations

since EU leaders agreed to begin

preparing for discussions

about the future

relationship with Britain.

The Brexit secretary,

David Davis and the EU's chief

negotiator Michel Barnier will join

the talks tomorrow, which are likely

to centre around the UK's financial

obligations and the rights

of British people living in the EU.

US President Donald Trump has urged

Chinese leader Xi Jinping to "work

very hard" on persuading North Korea

to give up its nuclear weapons.

Discussions on how to deal

with North Korea's threats

to the region have dominated

the agenda during Mr

Trump's tour of Asia.

This morning he warned

that "time is quickly

running out" to deal

with the North Korean

nuclear threat.

The United States is committed to

the complete and permanent

denuclearisation of North Korea.

China can fix this problem easily

and quickly, and I am calling on

China and your great president to

hopefully work on it very hard. I

know one thing about your president,

if he works on it hard, it will

happen. There's no doubt about it.

Reports from Hollywood say

Kevin Spacey is to be edited out

of a new film six weeks

before its release -

following the recent

allegations of sexual assault.

Spacey, who plays Jean Paul

Getty in the thriller,

"All The Money In The World",

will be replaced by

the Oscar-winning Canadian actor,

Christopher Plummer.

The release will still go ahead

as planned on December the 22nd.

House prices are now falling in four

areas of the country,

according to the latest report

from chartered surveyors.

The Royal Institution

of Chartered Surveyors has said that

prices are declining in London,

the South East, East Anglia

and north-east England.

Across the country as a whole,

it said prices were flat.

The survey though appears

to contrast with data

from the Halifax, which said

earlier this week that house price

growth had risen to 4.5%

in the year to October.

Scientists say skin injuries -

such as cuts - heal quicker

if they happen during the day.

Researchers found that people

who suffered burns after 8pm took

an average of 28 days to get better

- compared with 17 for

the daytime injuries.

They think the human body

clock is reason why.

A self-driving shuttle bus

in Las Vegas was involved in a crash

on its first day of service.

The vehicle - which was carrying

several passengers -

collided with a lorry driving

at slow speed.

Nobody was injured in the incident

which officials say was the fault

of the lorry driver.

The shuttle is the first of its kind

to be used on public roads

in the United States.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

use the hashtag #VictoriaLive

and if you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Let's get some sport.

The Ashes are at stake for England's

women. They've been out in Australia

for a couple of weeks already.

They trail 4-2 after the one-dayers.

There are four points

for the winners of the one-day Test.

England cannot afford to lose,

because a tied series would be

the best that England

could then hope for.

Australia would retain those

precious Ashes.

Our sports correspondent

Andy Swiss is in Sydney.

Good evening and E. Has it been a

good day for England's women so far?

Yes, as you can see the floodlights

are on here. Instead of the tea

break we've just had the dinner

break. England with a bit of

rebuilding, they are currently

188-4. England won the toss, they

chose to bat. It was Australia's

bowlers but got off to the best art.

England losing the early wickets of

Lauren Winfield, outfit just four.

Australia on top in the early

stages. Then a century partnership

between Tammy Beaumont and Heather

Knight. Tammy Beaumont particularly

impressive. You can see why she was

England's player of the tournament

at the World Cup in the summer.

Beaumont was eventually out for 70.

Heather Knight followed the 62.

They've also lost Natalie Sciver 18.

England with a bit of work to do.

This is a much with so much riding

on it. If Australia wind, they will

retain the Ashes. So England need to

post a big first innings total. They

are currently 188-4.

A quick update on the England men -

their Ashes Series starts

at the end of the month.

They are in Adelaide, on the second

day of a four-day tour match.

Jake Ball went over on his ankle

and had to leave the field

and is a doubt for

the rest of the match.

Australia are 152-6,

141 runs behind England.

We've heard from Eni Aluko for the

first time since she gave that

devastating testimony about racism

within the England camp.

This was an

interview she gave to the BBC.

The FA came out of the DCMS

committee hearing very badly.

They were looking at

the circimstances around the England

coach Mark Sampson's dismissal

and how they handled it.

He lost his job for his conduct

at a previous job, but he was found

to have used racially

disciminatory language

towards Eniola Aluko and another

player.

Aluko was essentially ostracised

and she feels very let

down by some of her

team-mates at the time.

It's been very divisive

and very adversarial,

and I think the players

have been dragged into that.

But the players have their own mind

and they should be able to say,

actually, let me step back from this

and see how this may benefit.

If I have a problem,

if they have a problem,

they have a process

that is going to protect them.

Aluko was an unused substitute last

night for Chelsea as they beat

Rosengard in the first leg

of their last 16

Champions League tie.

It is the second consecutive

Thursday that the Prime Minister

wakes up needing to replace one of

her Cabinet ministers.

This comes, as we've been hearing,

after a series of unauthorised

meetings with Israeli

officials and politicians.

In a letter to Theresa May issued

after they met last night she says:

So it's left Theresa May's

government under fire

from critics and commentators.

And this is how the front pages

view her predicament this morning -

obviously with considerable

speculation about what happens next.

In a moment we'll be

discussing where the Prime

Minister goes from here.

But first, our political expert

James Landale explains how exactly

it went so badly wrong for Priti

Patel.

This story is all about a family

holiday to Israel by Priti Patel,

the International Development

Secretary, that went terribly wrong.

A holiday where the lines

between her public life

and her private life became blurred.

The correct way of doing business

within government didn't happen,

and had extraordinary consequences

for the British government.

So what happened was this.

In August, Priti Patel went

on holiday to Israel.

It was a 12, 13-day holiday.

For around two days, Priti Patel

decided to do a bit of work.

And she had a very busy

schedule packed in for her.

No fewer than 12 separate

engagements over those two days.

Now, the International Development

Secretary, Priti Patel,

has apologised after admitting

meeting the Israeli prime

minister, Binyamin Netanyahu.

It is quite extraordinary that

Priti Patel, a cabinet minister,

met Binyamin Netanyahu,

the head of the government

for another country, secretly,

without telling anybody.

Relationships between governments

are incredibly fine-tuned,

and meetings are calibrated

and they're prepared

for, and ministers know

what messages they want to get

across and what they're

going to receive.

If you have a sort of rogue elephant

storming through this process

having secret meetings,

then the potential for errors,

for mixed messages, for the Israeli

government doing one thing

and the British government doing

another thing,

or even the Israeli government

and another Government minister

deciding to do one thing

to try and influence

the British Government.

I mean, this is a really,

really complicated place to be,

and it's why, I think,

that there were so many eyes raised

when it emerged that Priti Patel had

met Binyamin Netanyahu.

Let's talk to

Henry Mance, political correspondent

for the Financial Times,

and Ian Birrell, a freelance

journalist and former speech

writer for David Cameron.

We may also be joined by Jo-Anne

Nadler, who is stuck in traffic at

the moment. The Times reporting that

an EU leader is reporting the

British Government will collapse by

the end of the year. What do you

think of that story?

It sounds

reasonable. From the other side of

the Channel, you're thinking, what

is going on? One candidate member

gone, being looked into for sexual

harassment, another one gone here.

This does not look like a government

that will be around for long. Other

symptoms have the former Chancellor

George Osborne saying in June it

would fall apart within a week.

Colin Theresa May a dead woman

walking, and she is still there.

--

he was

calling Theresa May. How

embarrassing is this for Theresa

May?

Very embarrassing. She looks

weak. We have a Foreign Minister who

may have inadvertently led to a

longer jail sentence for a British

citizen in Iran as well, and he is

still in his job despite all the

special Ops he has been engaged on

to further his own ambitions. So we

have a very weak Prime Minister,

still very divided country and

party, and I think it is very

justified for European leaders to

wonder whether this is a government

they can do business with,

particularly when it is hard to see

how they can get any form of Brexit

through.

It would be simple if

Britain offered more for the divorce

bill, then things would start

moving?

Yes, but she has a hard line

who may not accept that. She has

this terrible balancing act and she

does not have the authority or power

to get it through, and I think

European leaders are just looking at

this mess and saying, can they get

anything through? It is also

significant, we have had some German

economists advising the Government

that they should give an

extension...

Advising the German

Government? Joest, to get an

extension.

We are coming up for a

year after triggering Article 50 and

we still don't know the shape of the

arrangement.

The Germans would not

want an extension to a deadline?

There is a hard date, perhaps marks

the 30th 2019, then she has done her

job. She has fulfilled the role, and

I think she is actually in a

stronger position than perhaps she

even realises. They have decided

they are not going to try to get rid

of her, not going to try a coup,

they don't have enough rebellious

MPs in the Conservative Party.

She

is their best shot at making breaks

that happened the way they want?

Yes, so why doesn't she sure that

authority and sack people, rather

than letting them resign. And it is

clear policies on the things she

cares about, but instead we have

this bit by bit approach, and she is

making it all seem rather laborious.

I think if you are a Brexiter, you

would say, yes, she is delivering

the date, but making it look like

really hard work, not very tasty

gruel that the country has to eat

up.

Ian, it is such a the bridal

time for the Conservative Party. Are

there parallels with previous

administrations for you, not?

The

one that is being drawn is with the

John Major..., government that had

economic issues coming out of the

European monetary system, then was

beset by problems with a declining

majority and a series of scandals

after John Major's Back To Basics

speech. That was the comparison and

I wrote last week in the Guardian

that it is actual and much worse,

and don't be fooled by thinking it

is only that bad, it is much worse.

Not only other sex scandals more

profound in what is happening the

for in that it is about societal

problems and how women are treated,

but it goes much deeper in terms of

economic issues, the chaos in the

Government, and you know John Major

at least began with a majority, but

Theresa May has blundered away her

majority. Overshadowing everything

is one big issue, Brexit, and still

we have not begun to resolve how we

will get out of Europe if indeed

that is to happen.

What sort of

trouble if any good Priti Patel make

for Theresa May on the backbenches?

She spoke in her resignation letter

about speaking up for a sovereign

independent Britain.

Yes, you

mentioned the divorce bill, billions

of pounds of taxpayers' money, and

she's a big advocate for taxpayer

money on the aid budget, so she

could come around and say, I don't

quite agree with this, and she has

particular views on foreign policy.

She could just be a nuisance.

This

was the woman commissioning work on

her own department to see if money

could be given to the Israeli army,

from British taxpayers?

Yes, it was

a bit of a paradox that, a bit

strange. I think she could be very

awkward and with a working majority

of just 12 it is very problematic.

But remember the polls are still

neck and neck. The Conservatives are

not in complete freefall like they

were in the 1990s. If Theresa May

was overthrown and the new leader of

the Conservative Party decided to

have an election, there is every

possibility the Conservatives might

actually wind a majority.

I saw

someone the other day saying if you

want to know how bad it is for the

Tories, just think, if Ed Miliband

was the leader of the Labour Party

the Tories would be 15 points

behind. And everything is about

Jeremy Corbyn being leader of the

Labour Party and then being

terrified about handing power to our

left Government, bolstering their

rags of power. Priti Patel, we

should think, she was overpromoted,

a very poor aid minister, and she

does not have a huge amount of

allies. Unlike some of the Keith

Brexiteers who are very key figures

and respected on the backbenches --

unlike many of the key Brexiteers.

And asking viewers about Theresa May

this morning, how does she get a

grip?

The budget in a couple of

weeks would be a good place to start

but the problem is there is not a

lot of money around.

A lot of

unravelling after a budget usually?

You could see the last three have

gone pretty poorly. When Philip

Hammond tried to put up taxes on

some workers, there was an outcry. I

think they have to respond to the

election, saying that we feel the

NHS is Greece, housing is not there

for young people, too expensive for

everyone, and those kinds of things

about aspirations -- we feel that

the NHS is squeezed.

Again I think

they have to show they are about

something beyond meandering through

Brexit. They have to show they have

some ambition, things to say to the

public on what they are concerned

about, whether it is social care,

and embarrassing thing to bring up

for Theresa May, whether it is

housing, the health service, or

perhaps they should look beyond

that, to issues like drug reform

something, where they can reach out

to voters who are not necessarily

engaged with politics. Let's not

forget the Priti Patel resignation

probably does not impact people's

lives a jot, but there are issues

where they can reach out and grab

people, but as of yet all we see is

a government blundering from chaos

to disaster the chaos the disaster,

and that is not a good luck.

Thank

you, Ian Birrell, and Henry Mance,

thank you for coming on the

programme. We can talk to Jo-Anne

Nadler later when she makes it in.

Some police control rooms in England

and Wales are struggling to cope

with the number of calls theyr'e

getting - according

to the official police watchdog.

The report was carried out

by Her Majesty's Inspector

of Constabulary Mike Cunningham.

We're more calls to 999 and 101

which means some calls don't get a

response. That is not good. We are

looking at how police use the money

and staff that they have, how well

they understand the demand for their

services, and we found that overall

police forces are performing pretty

well in terms of efficiency, but in

this area of control rooms where the

calls coming, we found in some cases

forces are struggling. And that is

two areas, firstly the sheer volume

of calls coming in and how they

prioritise those, and secondly

around staff who work in those

control rooms, retaining them,

giving them the skills they need to

make an assessment of the calls, so

a couple of issues are going on here

that we are urging constables to

have a closer look at. White

the outcome of that, what they're

complaining about, it often goes

unresolved. That is not good?

Issues

remain unresolved is clearly is not

good and we have seen examples of

where that happens. We absolutely

accept police forces have to

prioritise, they have to see which

calls are important, which calls

need a response, which ones don't.

And, encouragingly, police forces

now are doing that, not based on the

type of crime reported, but on the

needs of the person who is calling,

so if my shed was broken in two in

the middle of the night, I'm not a

vulnerable person and might not

expect the police to attend. If my

neighbour who is elderly and lives

on their own might have their shed

broken in the middle of the night,

it might terrify them, so they might

expect reasonably for the police to

attend and give them that

reassurance, so there is much more

sophisticated prioritising going on

based on the needs of the person

making the call.

Final thought, how

much stress our police forces under,

and particularly over the next few

years in terms of budget

constraints?

Yes, we have said in

this report police forces are under

significant stress, and two things

fall out of that. Firstly, there is

clearly less money around now than

there was, and budgets have been

affected, but secondly we are urging

Chief constables to think very

differently about how they can

provide services in the future, how

they provide services to people who

are vulnerable, who need the police.

A lot of people do business now

online. How do the police forces

think about that in terms of how

people communicate with them. Lots

of things are changing in policing,

and police forces need to really

embrace that change and step up.

OK,

thank you very much, thank you, Mike

cunning ham. -- Cunningham.

Some tweets coming and about

people's pets. This one, Patch, kept

happy when she was at her worst. And

this is the most delicious dog. And

Linda says Beazer two most gorgeous

dogs, pixie is built Westie and your

Kate Cross. They are our world --

pixie is a Westie and Yorkie cross.

Still to come:

Prevent is the Government's

anti-radicalisation scheme.

But is it working?

We'll be asking people who work

on the programme and a former

far right extremist.

And we have a special report on how

virtual reality can help people

tackle a range of phobias,

as well as treating other

mental health conditions.

Time for the latest

news - here's Annita.

And

Theresa May is under pressure

to restore stability

to the Government after the second

resignation from her

Cabinet in a week.

The International Development

Secretary, Priti Patel,

stepped down last night after more

questions were raised

about her unauthorised meetings

with Israeli politicians.

Ms Patel was a prominent Brexit

supporter, and the Prime Minister

is facing calls to replace her

with someone who also

backs leaving the EU.

Police forces in England and Wales

are struggling to meet demand,

due to a surge in the number

of calls from members of the public.

A survey by the policing watchdog

says the service is under

"significant stress"

because of budget cuts,

although it says forces could help

by making further efficiencies.

The First Minister of Wales,

Carwyn Jones, is to issue

a statement today amid criticism

of the way he handled

misconduct allegations

against a Welsh cabinet member,

who is believed to have

taken his own life.

The family of Carl Sargeant -

who'd been accused of

inappropriate touching -

says he was denied natural justice

because he wasn't given details

of the allegations which led

to his sacking.

US President Donald Trump has urged

Chinese leader Xi Jinping to "work

very hard" on persuading North Korea

to give up its nuclear weapons.

Discussions on how to deal

with North Korea's threats

to the region have dominated

the agenda during Mr

Trump's tour of Asia.

This morning he warned

that "time is quickly

running out" to deal

with the North Korean

nuclear threat.

Reports from Hollywood say

Kevin Spacey is to be edited out

of a new film six weeks

before its release -

following the recent

allegations of sexual assault.

Spacey, who plays Jean Paul

Getty in the thriller,

"All The Money In The World",

will be replaced by

the Oscar-winning Canadian actor,

Christopher Plummer.

The release will still go ahead

as planned on December 22nd.

Scientists say skin injuries -

such as cuts - heal quicker

if they happen during the day.

Researchers found that people

who suffered burns after 8pm took

an average of 28 days to get better

- compared with 17 for

the daytime injuries.

They think the human body

clock is reason why.

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

Here's some sport now.

These are our headlines

this morning.

England Women are playing

the one-off test against Australia

in their Ashes Series.

They won the toss in

Sydney and chose to bat.

Heather Knight and Tammy Beaumont

scored half centuries.

England are 206-4.

Eni Aluko says she is disappointed

by the lack of support she has had

from England teamates.

The FA has apologised

to her after an inquiry found

that the former coach Mark sampson

used racially dicriminatory

language towards her.

Aluko was an unused substitute last

night, as Chelsea beat Rosengard 3-0

in the Champions' League.

Fran Kirkby scored the pick

of their goals in the first leg

of their last 16 tie.

And Northern Ireland are preparing

for the first leg of their World Cup

play-off against Switzerland.

They play at Winsdor Park

tonight before the second

leg in Basel on Sunday.

That's all your sport.

We'll learn more this morning -

very shortly - about how many

people are being referred

to the government's anti

radicalisation programme - Prevent.

I've just got the figures right now,

and it is telling me that thousands

of children and teenagers have been

flagged up to the government to's

anti-radicalisation programme. These

are official figures just in from

the Home Office. The first detailed

figures of Prevent revealed that

2127 of those referred in 2015-16

were under 15, including more than

500 girls. Another 2000 were aged

between 15-20. The first detailed

Home Office analysis of Prevent

revealed 2000 of those referred in

2015-16 were under 15, including 500

girls.

The scheme is part of

the counter-terror strategy

created by the Labour government

in 2003 to support those at risk

of joining extremist

groups including far-right

and radical islamist groups.

It tries to strengthen

relationships between the police

and other organisations,

and requires senior

community figures -

from faith leaders to teachers

to doctors - to report

any suspicions.

Those in favour say it helps

people who might be drawn

into that radicalised world -

but critics claim it creates

distrust which can leave

those who are at risk,

even more isolated.

Let's now speak to two people

who work at the more extreme end

of the Prevent strategy -

known as Channel.

Nigel Bromage is a former far right

extremist, and Rashad Ali

is a counter-extremism specialist.

Both provide support

to individuals who are seriously

at risk of radicalisation.

Just over 2000 of those referred to

Prevent were under the age of 15

including more than 500 girls in

2015-16.

Those other referrals, they

are considered to be a concern by

front line staff. The number of

people who go on to an engaged

Channel intervention is probably

around a quarter of that.

What do

you think of that number of

referrals?

I'm not sure to what

extent is that picking up all the

issues we are dealing with. We are

talking about individuals who are

expressing an interest towards

extremist ideologies which have a

tendency towards violence. Those on

the far right and Islamist side. And

to some extent what you are seeing

is some who have concerns, which the

majority of those concerns are laid

at the initial stage by saying there

is nothing here to be concerned

about, and any small number of

people who think when you break it

down its not a large problem. But it

is significant enough to understand

why it's necessary to have some type

of engagement for them.

Thank you

for the context because it is

important. How do you react the

figures?

For me it's about the more

people that are reported, the more

people we can engage with.

You see

these figures as a good thing, the

fact that so many under 15 is being

referred?

Obviously I'd like it to

be a lot less than that but for me

if there are people who need

support, then I would rather be

aware of them so we can get involved

and try and support these people.

You spent nearly 20 years as a far

right extremist, including joining

Combat 18 who are openly racist and

pro-Nazi. You groomed to join such

groups?

Very much so. I joined the

far right because I was anti-IRA and

anti-terrorist. It wasn't because I

was racist. I had black and Asian

friends, I used to listen to reggae

music.

It evolved from there?

It

evolved from there. I was groomed

through a slow process where they

listened to my home concerns, my

home issues...

Would you have

described yourself as a vulnerable

teenager?

Yes, at the time my mother

was dying of cancer. The far right

moved in, they took at a hospital,

they bought the shopping when we

needed it, it was a very gradual

process. They are very good at what

they do and we've got to try and

counter that.

Is it fair to say the

threat of radicalisation in this

country is as much about far right

extremism as Islamist extremism?

I

wouldn't say it's as much but it is

a growing problem. As more people

get angry about various issues...

Like what? What would attract you to

Combat 18 now?

People who have been

upset about things like the

Manchester bomb attack. The far

right wasted no time, they tried to

manipulate that. Thankfully the

people of Manchester sent them

packing. There was no room for

extremism at that time. But the far

right try and manipulate issues and

concerns that people have.

Your

official title is a Channel

intervention provider, what does

that mean in practical terms? Give

us an insight into how you engage

with radicalised individuals and

tried to the radical them.

There are

a number of people who are

expressing understandable sentiments

which is anger towards what is

happening in the world they see

around them. Some of them have

personal, negative experiences. Some

of them may well have a world view

which tells there is a global war

against Muslims and therefore they

are fighting at the edge of that

war. Many of these young people or

slightly older people will be taken

on board by extremist groups. Some

of them will try to go and join

Isis, some of them returned from

conflicts, some of them may have

been arrested for minor offences.

Those individuals, it's easier to

engage with them so that they can

understand their anger is normal but

also understand how they are being

manipulated by these ideas and by

these groups. And then allow them a

means by which they can reconcile

with themselves.

Do you talk to

them?

One of the ways obviously is

to be able to get them to talk and

explain their perspective, and

getting them to reflect on what they

are thinking about. Often they have

a certain set of assumptions which

are quite dangerous. Getting them to

realise their political worldview is

quite immature but also that that

emotions are in conflict with their

religious sensibilities.

As you

know, some people feel it unfairly

targets Muslims, this programme.

Here are some students we spoke to

last year.

There is a real sense of

fear and suspicion, and questioning

of where the academic freedoms come

in.

So on campuses we've got people self

censoring in classrooms.

We've got, you know,

students worried about what websites

they can go on, students worried

about what they can study, cutting

things out of their dissertations

because they're scared.

And it's really curtailing

the freedom of someone who wants

to come to university and wants

to study things, and that's

the whole point, right?

There have been occasions

where I have been sort of afraid

to put my head above the parapet

and sort of give my opinions

on certain things at the risk

of sort of being treated

as an outcast.

Or treated as you know someone

that may be suspected

of being at risk of radicalisation.

You know, I mean, when I've been

searching for certain things,

some of my friends have been saying

to me, be careful.

Use Incognito, because if

the university wonders what you're

doing, then that puts you in a very

precarious, vulnerable

position where your freedoms

may be curtailed, and,

you know, basically be

like the thought police.

Do you think there's

a sense of paranoia,

oversensitivity, on this issue?

I don't think there is

a paranoia, oversensitivity,

because I personally know of people

who have been referred to Prevent

over a simple aspect

of they were in a debate based

on theology and religion,

and this was organised by the sixth

form debating society.

And because they had

their own religious beliefs,

which I personally believe I share

similar practices of Islam to them,

and for them to be referred

to the Prevent officer,

and then get searched,

the whole house, his computer,

his phones, everything.

I don't think there

is oversensitivity.

I should be cautious, because this

has happened to my friend.

So it could happen to me.

The students I met at Brunel

were all familiar with this man's

story and used it as an example

of why they were on edge

with the Prevent strategy on campus.

Mohammed is 33.

Until last year, he was studying

a mast at Staffordshire

University in terrorism.

He was reading this book

on terrorism studies

in the campus library,

part of the course reading list,

when he was questioned

by a member of staff.

Do you support Isis?

Do you dislike homosexuality?

Do you think that the three girls

who left Bethnal Green

in order to join Isis,

what you think of this?

And the questions became

progressively intrusive.

I was reading this

very page of the book,

which is about the definition.

The staff never was concerned

after the conversation,

and under the Prevent duty wanted

to flag it up.

Security on campus were asked

for Mohammed's details.

Once he found out what was going on,

he launched his own complaint

against the university,

hired a lawyer.

Do you think that there was anything

that you said that gave the member

of staff reason for concern,

and rightly so she went

and investigated further?

No, there was no I think

or I believe, it was surely

so-and-so said or it's been said

or narrated in such-a-such a work.

So I followed the academic

code to the exact level.

But unfortunately that

did me no favours.

Mohammed's studies were put on hold

while the University

launched an investigation.

They apologised, but he's

decided not to go back.

Is that an example of the strategy

working or not working?

I don't

think any of those are examples of

the strategy at all. The first

incident weather girl is complaining

about somebody being searched and

their property being looked at has

nothing to do with Prevent. It's an

investigation that has taken place

which is a different part of the

counterterrorism strategy, so

obviously there's been some kind of

terrorism connection there. I don't

know the details but that's got

nothing to do with Prevent. The

second case with the individual, we

can't comment on the details, but

has nothing to do with a Prevent

prefer -- Prevent referral. I don't

think it's to do with the referral

process or prevention. I think a lot

of the time some of the issues that

are raised genuine issues but a lot

of the time they come into a

political context, where people have

a view regarding what Prevent is or

are part of the ideological battle.

Whether it's on the hard left or the

Islamist Wright, who see Prevent as

being curtailing their ideological

belief system.

I've got a comment

from the National police Chief's

Council, their lead for Prevent.

This is what he says about the

figures. These figures out this

morning demonstrate trust and

support in Prevent is growing. Each

of the 7631 referrals for someone

trying to guide a person they had

concerns about a way from harm and

towards the help they may have

needed. That's his very positive

spin on these figures. You can see

that some might say, hang on, this

is people overreacting.

The thing

is, the more people that are aware,

Prevent is simply about protecting

honourable adults and children. That

is the baseline. We've got to deal

with that. The more reports there is

for me, the more people it's being

helped.

Thank you very much for

coming on the programme. Still to

come, more reaction to Priti Patel's

resignation and what Theresa May

needs to do to get a grip of the

situation.

Virtual reality is capturing the

imaginations of gamers everywhere.

It transports players into worlds

that are so immersive

they seem almost real.

But its potential goes far

beyond computer games.Psychologists

and computer scientists are testing

to see whether the technology

could be used to treat mental health

conditions.They believe that

because the virtual scenarios

are so realistic, they could be used

to train and heal our minds.

With mental health services

under so much pressure,

could virtual therapy

be the solution?

We sent our reporter

Jean Mackenzie to test it out.

For some, a phobia of heights can be

an almost paralysing experience.

Simply standing too close to an edge

can create intense fear.

Floor ten.

This is a virtual reality simulator,

designed not only to induce a fear

of heights, but also

to help conquer it.

The view from here

is amazing, isn't it?

So I'm now right up at the top

of the building, and I can see

the roof just above me.

And it is very high up.

How's your anxiety now?

I still feel OK.

Quite high up to be

this close to the edge

with very little barrier.

But OK.

What I'd like you to do

is pick eight apples.

To reach them, use the platform.

You push the lever forwards,

and it will take you out.

Let's give it a go.

OK, I'm moving forward.

Very good.

Right, that's one.

I need to get eight, right?

Yeah.

Where shall I put them?

Oh, you can throw it.

Oh, OK.

That's fun.

This one's quite far away.

I've got to lean quite far

over to get this one.

I don't think I'd normally

do this in real life.

I would not have leant that far

forward if this was for real.

I can tell you that.

Take the headphones off.

So that was quite

challenging in some areas.

Now, I'm not scared

of heights myself, but you do

get a sense of feeling

like you are in this space

that is recreated quite well,

and the sense of movement, as well.

In the lift, you feel

like you're moving up.

You feel like you're moving out.

And they contribute to making

you feel a little bit uneasy,

a little bit uncertain on your feet.

But what will it evoked

in someone with a real phobia?

This is Liz.

And her fear of heights was starting

to take over her life.

Great.

Let's get started.

If I had to be in a situation

where I was confronted

with a height, I would feel

very, very tense.

Um...

Sort of jumpy.

And certain height situations

made me feel not just that

I might fall over the edge,

but that I actually might

voluntarily go over the edge,

which is a really,

really unnerving feeling.

I didn't trust myself

with heights any more.

I felt anxious as to

how I might react.

You're doing marvellously.

Would you like to try

the next floor up?

Yes.

Even though you're...

You know it's not a real world,

you do feel the symptoms

of fear that you would do,

but you're braver because you

know that you're safe.

Liz has completed this course,

and to her amazement,

it's had a powerful effect.

How did this feel, Liz,

when you were doing it

for the first time?

Oh, I was very nervous.

Um...

My hands were sweating

on a few of the occasions,

which is not normal for me.

And I felt very jumpy,

at any sort of sound change.

I mean, I could do it,

but I didn't feel very stable.

But now I feel hugely

more confident.

I thought that it had perhaps

changed, but I wasn't really sure

to what extent until I tried it,

so after that session,

I did go out and put

myself into some positions

where you are sort of facing

heights, and I was really,

really surprised at how differently

I felt about it.

So exposure therapy

is when a person is exposed

to the situation that they're

fearful of, that they

might be avoiding.

Dr Nihara Krause is a clinical

psychologist who's been treating

mental health problems for more

than 20 years.

Exposure therapy is something

that is seen as helping people learn

to manage their automatic fear

response, their physiological

response, and become

desensitised to that response.

It doesn't fill threatening,

and so I don't feel anxious.

And I feel comfortable with it.

Would you actually go as far

as to say you feel comfortable?

Yes,

I would.

Which is quite remarkable, really.

There's something beautiful about VR

in the fact that people know it's

not real and they can try things

that they've not done before,

not done for a long time,

yet mind and body does behave

as if it's in the real world.

And what they're basically doing,

like Liz, is learning a new memory,

in her instance about safety around

heights, and that memory of safety

is replacing and helping diminish

the fear memory that she had.

One in four of us will have

some sort of mental

health problem this year.

And with the number of people

seeking treatment rising,

a new approach could be needed.

Specific phobias are one

thing, but what about

anxiety or depression?

These are more complex

conditions, more nuanced.

Can a machine ever really

replace a human when it

comes to treating these?

Mel Slater certainly hopes so.

His latest programme simulates

a therapist's office,

and uses a popular psychological

technique called body swapping.

So this is a kind of

virtual self-help therapy,

where you can talk

to yourself as if you were a friend,

because we know we are better

at solving friends' problems

than we are our own problems.

So it gives you a way to get

a better perspective on your issues.

This is Emily, who has

severe social anxiety.

I have this constant voice

in my head telling me that

I'm not good enough,

and people will sort of notice

and judge me for that.

Daily interactions, like ordering

a coffee or taking a book out

of the library, I get really hot

and quite flushed and flustered.

My breathing gets quicker.

And then you're just suddenly,

everything spills over.

Can this treatment help?

To begin, Emily must explain her

problem to a virtual therapist.

I experience a lot of

anxiety at university,

especially social anxiety,

which affects me in lectures.

Now she swaps chairs

in the virtual reality,

and gets to hear her avatar

relay her problem.

I experience a lot of

anxiety at university,

especially social anxiety,

which affects me in lectures.

And going out, sporting events.

Now it's her job as the therapist

to counsel herself.

Have you thought of using

any methods to try to

calm yourself down?

Focusing on your breathing, trying

to find the cause of your anxiety

and managing your thoughts?

And she's now back in her own body,

ready to hear that advice.

Have you thought of using

any methods to try to

calm yourself down?

Focusing on your breathing, trying

to find the cause of your anxiety

and managing your thoughts?

I think it's quite difficult

when you are experiencing a moment

of heightened anxiety to remember

necessarily some of the techniques

that you've been taught.

I think knowing that it was me maybe

made it less helpful,

because it was still kind

of my voice.

But it is, I guess, reassuring,

like a bit of a self mantra,

so something that you were saying

to somebody else could

actually be useful and you

could take it on board.

Body swapping is something that can

be used again as a tool that

accompanies your treatment.

However, it assumes that a person

has first of all got the ability

to put themselves in someone else's

position, which isn't always

very easy for people.

The second assumption is that people

have the verbal ability to be able

to express something objectively,

which again for some

people isn't very easy.

So I would have concerns about

somebody doing it on their own.

So we know there's a crisis

of mental health in the UK

and other countries.

We know that people often have

to wait a long time for appointments

where issues that are fairly mild

over time can become

much, much worse.

And maybe this can be a stopgap

before they see the real therapist.

So it's very early days.

We don't really know yet.

But these are the kind of ideas

that we are investigating right now.

And you've had conventional

talking therapy.

How does this compare?

Can it compare?

Um...

I think it's difficult to compare

it, because there's somebody

physically in front of you who's

trained to offer advice.

Whereas if you're talking

to yourself, you know,

I'm not a trained mental health

professional.

I don't know maybe the best

techniques that you could use.

I'm really excited.

I think we can make a fun,

interactive and effective treatment

for people that will change how

mental health problems

are dealt with.

Some people I think are nervous,

perhaps worried about therapists

being replaced, but we don't see

it like that.

We think VR can aid therapists,

but more importantly,

aid so many more people getting

the psychological

advice that they need.

If we going to radically

increase the provision

of psychological treatments,

then we're going to need

technologies like VR.

This therapy will now be

trialled on 100 people.

The aim is to get it into clinics

and even people's homes.

My son asked me, I'd

like to go and do Go Ape.

He has mentioned it before.

I have managed to move

the conversation on,

and we've not done it.

I wouldn't even have really liked

to see him doing it.

But I thought, OK,

I've done this course.

I'm going to try it.

We did it.

And it was amazing.

You're crossing sort

of bridges where there's

great gaps in the steps,

or walking across a sort

of tightrope walk,

and I was able to look down.

It's liberating.

I feel it's given me a lot

of confidence as well, actually,

because part of this reason to do

this course as well as conquer my

fear was I feel like it's good

to show my son that a fear that

you already have, or something that

you're frightened of,

you can get over it if you really

put your mind to it.

And thank you for your e-mails on

how your pets have transformed your

lights. Christine collected her

Yorkshire Terrier Rosti --

transformed your lives. She was

rescued by the RSPCA along with 40

other yorkies and was kept in

kennels just for breeding. As you

can imagine she was traumatised and

traumatised when I took her home and

forced. When I brought her home I

was at a very low ebb, feeling life

had no purpose for me, but Rosti and

I bonded from the first moment and

we have been inseparable since. --

Rusty. I tell everyone she is a

rescue dog who actually rescued me.

Christine from the Isle of Wight,

thank you.

Let's get the latest

weather update with Carol.

Turning colder, especially this

weekend. At the moment it is chilly

for summer us, but

weekend. At the moment it is chilly

for summer us, but then for others.

14 Celsius in Yorkshire at the

moment, 12 in Cardiff and further

south into London, the temperature

no picking up, at eight. We have

this weather front which is

cascading southwards taking the

cloud and rain with it as it does so

and behind it allowing the sunshine

already in the North to spread that

bit further south. Through the

course of this morning you can see

the patchy rain and drizzle they

are, the sunshine coming out behind

it, in the North Midlands into Wales

and south-west England, but we do

have a rash of showers coming in on

a blustery wind across the North of

Scotland. Into the afternoon, we

still have the remnants of that

front across the Isle of Wight,

Southern counties, Kent, Essex,

parts of East Anglia as well and

this is Midlands. Moving north, back

into the sunny skies. A pleasant

day. The same across most of

Scotland with the exception of the

North and the north-west where we

hang on to all those showers. For

Northern Ireland for most of the day

you will have a fine day with some

sunshine, and later we will see the

cloud build in the West and for

Wales when we lose this morning's

load the sun will come out. In South

Wales and south-west England as

well, in the sunshine, 13 or 14

Celsius. Through this evening and

overnight, there goes the front,

taking the rain with it, clear skies

following behind. You can also see a

new system coming in from the West,

introducing thicker cloud, breezy

conditions and some rain. North of

that, it will be a cold night,

widespread frost in Scotland, and we

will also still have those showers,

wintry on the hills, and that holds

true tomorrow. Tomorrow will again

be a blustery day. But tomorrow the

weather front sinking south will

clear more readily from Southern

counties and the channel islands

that we are expecting today, and

there will be a lot of sunshine

around and those showers, then later

we have more rain across Northern

Ireland and into south-west England.

Into Saturday, Armistice Day, Varane

will pull away from the south and

then we're looking at today operates

bells, sunshine and showers but it

will feel much cooler -- the rain

will pull away. Standing around

outside it will feel cold. Showers

in the north, the West and east, but

in between a fair bit of sunshine.

Cheers, Carol.

Hello, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Another headache for Theresa May

as she loses her second

senior minister in a week.

So as Priti Patel resigns,

what's next for the government?

We've got a very weak Prime

Minister, are still divided

We've got a very weak Prime

Minister, are still divided country

and party, and I think it is very

justified for European leaders to

wonder whether this is a government

they can do business with.

More

reaction in the next half-hour.

Thousands of children

and teenagers have been referred

to the government's Prevent

anti-terror scheme due to fears

they were being drawn

into radicalisation,

including more than 500 girls.

If there are people who need support

I'd rather we were aware of them.

We'll talk to some of those

behind the schemes to stop

radicalisation in schools.

And fewer of us are owning pets

apparently, but we'll be talking

to a group of animal lovers

who say owning a pet has

changed their lives.

Annita McVeigh is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

Theresa May is under pressure

to restore stability

to the Government after

the second resignation

from her Cabinet in a week.

The International Development

Secretary, Priti Patel,

stepped down last night after more

questions were raised

about her unauthorised meetings

with Israeli politicians.

Ms Patel was a prominent Brexit

supporter, and the Prime Minister

is facing calls to replace her

with someone who also

backs leaving the EU.

Police forces in England and Wales

are struggling to meet demand,

due to a surge in the number

of calls from members of the public.

A survey by the policing watchdog

says the service is under

significant stress because of budget

cuts although it says forces

could help by making

further efficiencies.

Thousands of children and teenagers

have been flagged up to the

governance anti-terrorist scheme.

That included more than 500 girls.

British officials will travel

to Brussels for further

Brexit talks today.

It's the first set of negotiations

since EU leaders agreed to begin

preparing for discussions

about the future

relationship with Britain.

The Brexit secretary,

David Davis and the EU's chief

negotiator Michel Barnier will join

the talks tomorrow, which are likely

to centre around the UK's financial

obligations and the rights

of British people living in the EU.

US President Donald Trump has urged

Chinese leader Xi Jinping to work

very hard on persuading North Korea

to give up its nuclear weapons.

Discussions on how to deal

with North Korea's threats

to the region have dominated

the agenda during Mr

Trump's Asian tour.