10/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


10/11/2017

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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello, it's Friday, it's 9am.

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Welcome to the programme.

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March 29th at 11pm, 2019 -

that's the date that will fixed

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in law for Britain to leave the EU

as Theresa May warns potential

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Conservative rebels not to try

and block the process.

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Forced out of his dream job as

a police officer for being Asian -

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we talk to Mark Dias

about his pursuit of justice

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at the hands of Cleveland Police,

where he says he was systematically

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bullied and spied on.

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He has now been awarded

half-a-million pounds

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in compensation.

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Asian officers would be

subjected to fabricated

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internal investigations,

conduct investigations and criminal

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investigation by the professional

standards department.

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We will get the full story later in

the programme.

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Women may only need to have three

smear tests in their lifetime

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if they have had a vaccine

against a virus called HPV,

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which can cause the disease.

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At the moment women

are offered 12 tests -

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we will talk to a mum who has had

cervical cancer about how

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it was discovered.

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Hello, welcome to the programme -

we're live until 11am this morning.

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Lots to talk about today.

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You can get in touch

on all the stories we're talking

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about this morning -

use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE.

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If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

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Our top story today...

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Theresa May has warned pro-EU

Conservatives that she will not

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tolerate any attempts to block

the Brexit process.

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In a sign of her intent,

she's outlined plans to enshrine

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in law the exact moment that Britain

will leave the European Union -

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11pm on 29th March, 2019.

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But the man responsible for writing

the Article 50 withdrawal process -

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cross-bench peer Lord John Kerr -

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says Brexit could still be

reversed.

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Our political correspondent

Emma Vardy is in Westminster.

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What has prompted the pledge from

the Prime Minister? Call it

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theatrics, called it symbolic, this

is Theresa May publicly underlining

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her commitment to Brexit. Her

message is, we won't go against the

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democratic will of the British

people. Listen to what she says in

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her article in the Telegraph today.

She says, let no one doubt our

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determination or question our

resolve. Brexit is happening. She

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says, we will not tolerate attempts

from any quarter to use the process

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of amendments to the EU Withdrawal

Bill as a mechanism to try to block

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the democratic process. The EU

Withdrawal Bill comes back to the

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Commons to be debated by MPs next

week so it is no coincidence Theresa

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May is putting out this statement

today, but as we are hearing that

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has been a controversial problem by

Lord Coe, the man who knows the nuts

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and bolts of this clause.

Lord Coe, the author of Article 50,

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is expected to say more today.

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We could change our minds at any

stage according to an article that

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Lord Kerr has made for some time.

Later on today he will say the

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country still has a free choice

about whether to proceed. People are

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still entitled to take a different

view. Will his intervention make any

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difference? He knows the score is

better than anyone so he will add

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weight to arguments from Remainers

who say we should leave the door

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open to a second referendum to see

if we want to go ahead with Brexit

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at all. On the other hand, for those

people that voted to leave, this has

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provoked outrage for some today.

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When you make interventions like

this, you run the risk that people

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will say, you are just trying to go

against the referendum result and

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backslide on the Democratic result

of the referendum as originally

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delivered by voters.

Emma, thank you

very much indeed.

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Rachel is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

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of the rest of the day's news.

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Donald Trump has told Asia and

Pacific leaders he will no longer

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tolerate what he has called chronic

trade abuses.

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Co-operation summit.

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During a hard-hitting speech,

he said America was prepared to work

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with countries in the region,

provided they abide

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by what he called "fair

and reciprocal trade".

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From this day forward, we will

compete on a fair and equal basis.

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We are not going to let the United

States be taken advantage of any

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more. I am always going to put

America First, the same way I expect

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all of you in this room to put your

country first.

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A new study is recommending a major

change in the way women are screened

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for cervical cancer.

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It suggests those who've been

vaccinated against the HPV virus

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need only have three smear tests

during their life, rather

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than the 12 currently offered.

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Our health correspondent

Sophie Hutchinson reports.

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Cervical cancer is

a dangerous disease.

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It's also one

of the most preventable cancers,

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but there's been concern

about a steady drop in the number

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of women going for screening

in the past few years.

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Currently, women aged 25 to 49

are offered smear tests every four

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-- every three years and then every

five years from the age of 50 to 64,

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but for almost a decade girls aged

11 to 13 have been given a vaccine

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against the cancer-causing

virus HPV.

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Today's study published

in the International Journal

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of Cancer says the vaccine reduces

the chance of cancer by 70%

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and women who have had it only need

to undergo three smear tests

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during their lives,

instead of the normal 12,

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at the age of 30, 40 and 55.

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All cervical cancers are linked

to HPV infection and having

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the vaccination dramatically reduces

the chances of having the infection

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and also having cervical cancer.

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Screening looks for early changes

that could suggest cancer

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is developing and quite simply

having the vaccine means

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you are less likely to have those

changes and less likely to develop

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cancer, so you don't need

screening quite so often.

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The study comes ahead

of changes being planned

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to the screening programme

in England for 2019 and similar

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adjustment in Scotland and Wales.

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New, more advanced lab testing

is expected to be introduced,

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which could mean fewer smear tests

for all women, whether

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vaccinated or not.

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Facebook's founding president has

said he's worried about the effect

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the site is having on society.

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Sean Parker, who says he no

longer uses social media,

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said the network was built

on "exploiting a vulnerability

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in human psychology",

and he was concerned

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about what it was "doing

to children's brains".

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The actor and producer Steven Seagal

is the latest Hollywood figure to be

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accused of sexual harassment.

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The actor Portia de Rossi,

who is married to the US talk show

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host Ellen DeGeneres,

made the allegation in a tweet.

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She claims that during a film

audition Mr Seagal told her "how

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important it was to have chemistry

off-screen" before

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unzipping his trousers.

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Mr Seagal's manager told the BBC

that the actor had no comment.

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Universities are to be warned not

to use misleading language or claims

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as they try to attract students.

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With hundreds of thousands of young

people in the process

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of applying for courses,

the BBC understands the advertising

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watchdog is to tell universities

next week that they need to prove

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the accuracy of wording used

in their marketing material.

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The French President Emmanuel Macron

is making an unscheduled visit

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to Saudi Arabia to discuss

the crisis in Lebanon

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after the Prime Minister,

Saad Hariri, resigned on Saturday.

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Lebanon risks being the battleground

in the fight between the Saudis

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and Iran for regional supremacy.

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Saudi Arabia has told its citizens

to leave Lebanon immediately and not

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to travel there from any country.

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Uber is due to find out the outcome

of its appeal against a ruling

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on the employment rights

of its drivers.

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Two drivers won a landmark case

against the cab-hiring app last year

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after arguing they were employees

and entitled to the minimum wage,

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sick pay and paid holiday.

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Uber challenged the ruling,

saying it could deprive drivers

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of the "personal flexibility

they value".

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More than half of schools in England

fail to offer Computer Science GCSE,

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according to a new report

by the UK's leading science academy.

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The Royal Society is calling

for a ten-fold increase in funding

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for computing education,

which it says is patchy and fragile.

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Here's our technology

correspondent, Rory Cellan-Jones.

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What effect does a binary shift left

and a binary shift right have?

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In a classroom in Saint Albans, some

budding young computer scientists

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are deep in their GCSE course.

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This school is in a minority.

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Today's report says computer

education is fragile and patchy,

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with too few pupils given the chance

to enter the exam.

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What's more, the subject

is being largely avoided by girls.

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So what has made these

students take it up?

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Our future is very much based around

computers and technology is becoming

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a big part of society.

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I knew that it would be useful to

have, and I could get a job easily.

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Maybe in other schools it might be

viewed as slightly nerdy

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to do computer science,

but I think it is quite

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respected at this school.

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The Royal Society's report says too

many young people are missing out

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on vital digital skills.

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54% of English schools do not offer

computer science as a GCSE.

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Schools need 3500 more

computing teachers.

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Only one in five computer science

entrants are female.

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Both the teachers in this class have

degrees in computer science,

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which makes them unusual.

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The Royal Society wants a big

increase in spending

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on training new teachers.

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The computing industry says

digital skills are vital

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for the UK's future.

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If we want to remain

a developed nation,

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a nation that is innovative,

that provides products

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and services to drive us forward

in the 21st century,

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we need people with advanced

digital skills, in all

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industries and all sectors.

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The Department for Education says it

wants to ensure the future workforce

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has the skills the UK needs.

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This report says that,

without more computing

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teachers, that won't happen.

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That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30am.

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Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

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use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE.

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If you text us, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

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Let's get some sport now with Damian

Johnson. Controversy in Belfast last

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night, Northern Ireland lost that

all-important World Cup play-off

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match?

That is right, controversial and

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disappointing for Northern Ireland,

looking to reach the World Cup for

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the first time since 1986, playing

against Switzerland, the favourites

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to go through after a 1-0 victories

because the referee awarded a

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penalty for handball by Northern

Ireland's Coria them. Most people

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were convinced it struck him on the

back or at best the shoulder but the

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referee believed otherwise.

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Ricardo Rodriguez scored

from the spot cue angry protests

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from the Northern Ireland

players and supporters.

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There's been outrage

on social media.

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BBC 5Live presenter Colin Murray

said the penalty decision

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was like refereeing from the Dark

Ages.

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The Northern Ireland

manager was left furious.

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It is staggering in this day and age

when the stakes are so high at this

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level of the game that something

like that, it's obviously

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a gamechanger, but dwelling on it

isn't going to help us.

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Whether it is the worst,

whatever it is, whatever label

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you want to put on it is irrelevant.

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The most important thing

is that we use it in the right

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way and overcome it,

we channel it into the

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game on Sunday night.

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They will play their second leg on

Sunday.

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Not only England will be wearing

poppies when they take on Germany at

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Wembley tonight?

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Both sets of players

will wear black armbands

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with poppies in remembrance

of fallen servicemen and women.

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FIFA had previoiusly banned sporting

them and the home nations were fined

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for doing so in November last year.

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FIFA's argument had been

that it was a political gesture

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but have now changed the rules

and allowed the wearing of poppies

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if both teams are in agreement.

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They will also be using video

assistant referee technology.

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This is technology to

help the referee review

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incidents like goals,

red cards, penalties.

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It could have helped Northern

Ireland last night.

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Just finally from me,

the Women's Ashes test

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is finely balanced in Sydney.

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The Australians are batting

in their first innings.

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Andy Swiss is in Sydney for us.

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What's the latest, Andy?

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After a frustrating first day,

England are fighting back, Australia

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108-4 in reply to England's first

innings, they resumed the day on

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235seven, hoping to put on towards

300, they did not quite get there

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despite an entertaining Camier from

Anya Shrubsole. Australia's batters

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looked comfortable, 48 without loss

but finally an England breakthrough,

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Laura Marsh taking the wicket of

Nicole Bolton 428 but no doubting

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the star of the show for England, 18

year Soviet Kljestan making her test

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debut, two wickets for her, Beth

Mooney caught by NATS giver, then

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Alex Blackwell trapped lbw, said two

wickets for Sophie Ecclestone, just

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18 years old, on her test debut. Her

parents are here watching her, how

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proud must they be? A fourth wicket

for England in the last few wickets,

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a brilliant catch by wicketkeeper

Sarah Taylor. The floodlights are

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on, England struggled under them

last night. How will Australia fair

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in the next hour and a half or so?

It could be pivotal. Andy Swiss, how

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sports correspondent in Sydney,

thank you. That is all the sport for

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now. Damian, thank you.

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It's been another fractious

week in politics,

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with a second resignation at the top

of Theresa May's Government,

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and questions about her

future looming large.

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As Brexit talks in Brussels resume

today, the Prime Minister has said

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she will not stand for any attempt

by pro-Remain MPs to try and block

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the Brexit process and has announced

that the date that Britain

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will leave the EU -

March 29th, 2019, at 11pm -

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will be written into law.

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With me in the studio

is Conservative party activist

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Binita Mehta-Parmar,

and down the line from

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Wakefield, Samantha Harvey.

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Also joining us down

the line from his home

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in Banbury is the former

Deputy Prime Minister

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Lord Heseltine.

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Lord Heseltine first, from a strong

and stable leadership to a cabinet

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in chaos, how much authority does

Theresa May have at this moment in

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time?

She has the authority that

rests on the fact the party can't

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agree about her successor. It's

widely assumed will not fight the

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next election as leader of the Tory

party. There is a current vacuum and

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people are hoping somebody will

emerge. It's a very fragile

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situation, extremely damaging to our

ability to negotiate with the

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Europeans. And it does not do us any

good on the international stage, but

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the consequence of two things. First

of all the election result, and

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second the cloud of Brexit.

Some EU

leaders think she might not last

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until Christmas. Do you agree?

No, I

don't think her departure is

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imminent. But you can see in your

introduction the scale of the

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anxiety. There is a panic around the

legislation, enshrining in law the

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precise time we will leave the

European Union. It injects

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uncertainty at exactly the wrong

moment. What is of growing concern

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is that to give time for Brexit to

work, and fixing in law the date,

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will merely accelerate people's

decision to take investment

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elsewhere and not to make investment

here. Frankly, it's a panic measure

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reflecting the growing anxiety that

hostility to Brexit is growing, and

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in order to make sure that public

opinion doesn't get the chance to

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exert itself, they have now shoved

in this time amendment. It wasn't in

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the original bill. So it isn't

essential,...

Isn't it essential

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when their voices like yourself, do

you still think Brexit should be

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avoided?

Oh, yes, it's the biggest

disaster in peace time in my

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lifetime. It is reducing the status

of this country in a way which...

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How helpful is that for Theresa May

and the Conservative Party and the

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government? If you are already

talking about a government and

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leadership in chaos, and a sense of

panic, surely that's unhelpful.

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Well, it is unhelpful, but that's

the situation we are in. There is a

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problem, and I will accept your

point that we could all be very

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quiet and pretend all is well. But

we will not fool anybody. Europeans

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are very sophisticated people and

know exactly what's going on here.

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They read our newspapers and have

ambassadors. For the British people

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to not know the scale of the debate

that's going on and the anxieties

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that are now rife through industry,

would be a disservice. This is a

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democracy and people are entitled to

hear the arguments on both sides.

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One of the noxious features of this

date being inserted into the

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legislation is that it is being done

so there is a fixed a moment before

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people fully understand the nature

of the deal that's on offer, and

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before people see the consequences.

In other words, it's trying to choke

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off the democratic process. This is

not exactly the sort of sovereignty

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we were told we would regain.

Or

upholding a decision that was made

0:19:450:19:50

democratically. Bringing in Samantha

at this point. What's your response

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to what you have heard so far?

I

have to say that I totally disagree

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with Lord Heseltine's comments

earlier on. First of all, Theresa

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May's position is strong at the

moment. We at the grassroots of the

0:20:050:20:12

Conservative Party do support her

and I think she's doing a good job

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to negotiate the best deal for the

British people. Lord Heseltine has

0:20:150:20:20

mentioned about democracy and the

democratic process. We have gone

0:20:200:20:23

through that last year. We are

leaving the EU and we are going to

0:20:230:20:33

be able to leave the EU on the 29th

of March, 2019, at 11am. Going back

0:20:330:20:42

over the same debate will not help

us.

Are you happy with that, no

0:20:420:20:46

matter what the terms are, Deal or

no Deal, we don't know what the

0:20:460:20:51

divorce Bill will be, trade deals,

how it will affect our lives.

It's

0:20:510:20:58

not going to help us if Lord

Heseltine pontificates the party in

0:20:580:21:03

the sense that he is not helping the

cause, and we should rally behind

0:21:030:21:09

the Prime Minister at this stage to

make sure we have the upper hand

0:21:090:21:12

over EU counterparts. Why don't we

have that unanimous support for the

0:21:120:21:18

Prime Minister? The Cabinet

reshuffle is not something she has

0:21:180:21:23

planned. It has nothing to do with

the Prime Minister's leadership. Her

0:21:230:21:30

leadership can only be judged when

the time comes, when the Brexit deal

0:21:300:21:34

is on the table for the British

people.

Do you agree with that

0:21:340:21:39

point? We need to back Theresa May

and she is in a strong position?

We

0:21:390:21:45

are only five months into this

government, so we need to give the

0:21:450:21:48

government time to get on with the

job. It has been a busy week in

0:21:480:21:52

politics this week.

It's been an

exceptional week in politics, two

0:21:520:21:58

Cabinet ministers quitting.

It is an

exceptional week, it's not a normal

0:21:580:22:01

one. But we need to give the

government space to get on with

0:22:010:22:05

their work and do their job. Brexit

is a decision not made long ago. We

0:22:050:22:09

have had a general election since.

Although it was a hung parliament,

0:22:090:22:14

the Conservative Party did win the

most seats. We know there have been

0:22:140:22:18

two elections, I don't think anybody

wants any more and we need to get on

0:22:180:22:21

with the job.

You talk about getting

on with the job but the perception

0:22:210:22:26

outside the UK, to people in Europe

and the and European leaders, is

0:22:260:22:32

that there is chaos at the moment.

I

think that's unfair. There isn't a

0:22:320:22:39

crisis. They were two different

issues that cause the resignations

0:22:390:22:42

of those Cabinet ministers. In this

day and age we hold cabinet

0:22:420:22:48

ministers and politicians in general

to a very high standards, which is

0:22:480:22:51

right, and we should do that, as we

do with many people in the public

0:22:510:22:55

sphere. It's right we took those

steps. It wasn't under anybody's

0:22:550:23:00

control as such. Theresa May has

made changes today. There was a

0:23:000:23:04

piece in the Telegraph this morning

to make progress on the biggest

0:23:040:23:09

issue of our generation, Brexit, and

we need to get on with it.

You say

0:23:090:23:14

it's unfair that EU leaders

speculate Theresa May might not be

0:23:140:23:17

in power by Christmas.

I think

speculation is not necessary and is

0:23:170:23:23

not helpful. People were speculating

remain would win. People were

0:23:230:23:27

speculating Jeremy Corbyn would be

annihilated. I suspect those people

0:23:270:23:31

are the same who are predicting the

demise of Theresa May and it's not

0:23:310:23:34

helpful.

You are saying that despite

voting to remain but you back the

0:23:340:23:40

Brexit process.

I was part of the

48%, but equally there was a 52%. It

0:23:400:23:48

was a big referendum, it was not

quite. We have had a general

0:23:480:23:53

election since. I was on the losing

side of the EU referendum, but let's

0:23:530:23:57

get on with it. We need to make sure

Britain, our amazing country, has

0:23:570:24:01

the best chance of success possible,

and the way to do that is to stop

0:24:010:24:05

distractions and get on with the job

at hand. The government isn't just

0:24:050:24:09

the government of Brexit, it's a

government of Britain, and their

0:24:090:24:13

domestic issues we need to tackle as

well and I want the government to

0:24:130:24:16

have space to do that.

Lord

Heseltine, what should Theresa May

0:24:160:24:20

do next?

She has already made it

clear what she's going to do.

What

0:24:200:24:27

do you think she should do to

improve the position of the

0:24:270:24:32

Conservative Party at the moment?

The dilemma is the Tory party is

0:24:320:24:39

split from top to bottom. As are all

the other parties. As long as that

0:24:390:24:46

remains, this indecision and

indecisiveness and uncertainty will

0:24:460:24:49

hang as a cloud over the body

politics. I have to be frank, I

0:24:490:24:55

don't see an easy solution to this.

I will tell you what I think will

0:24:550:24:58

happen, which is not something

Theresa May would like, but I think

0:24:580:25:03

public opinion is shifting. Looking

at the latest polling, there is

0:25:030:25:07

already a bigger majority against

Brexit than the one they achieved in

0:25:070:25:11

the referendum. That's going to get

worse. The Labour Party will shift

0:25:110:25:16

as public opinion shifts, and the

Tory party will be left holding the

0:25:160:25:20

baby. Where I disagree with your two

very articulate ladies, is that they

0:25:200:25:26

seem to be prepared to accept any

deal, any deal, no matter how bad,

0:25:260:25:32

under the name of Brexit. I

personally am totally opposed to

0:25:320:25:36

that. I think the whole status of

this country will be diminished. I

0:25:360:25:42

think investment will decline. I

think young people will feel

0:25:420:25:47

deceived, they feel betrayed by the

older generation of Brexiteers. They

0:25:470:25:51

know that the way the world is

today, Britain has to use its

0:25:510:25:58

influence in big combinations. And

Europe is the inevitable and only

0:25:580:26:02

serious option for us.

Samantha, how

does the Conservative Party go about

0:26:020:26:09

engaging with younger voters,

especially, many of whom voted to

0:26:090:26:14

remain?

We actually think in the

North we have a lot of different

0:26:140:26:20

issues. This election in June just

gone, that didn't do as much favour

0:26:200:26:27

as we would like as a Conservative,

because we have not engaged younger

0:26:270:26:31

voters. That's the reason why we

need to work very hard from a

0:26:310:26:34

different level of education and to

make sure we engage younger voters

0:26:340:26:40

from the very beginning. We gave

them a strong conservative

0:26:400:26:45

conviction, conservative values from

a young age. I also really feel that

0:26:450:26:50

Lord Heseltine is wrong to say we

don't have an understanding, we

0:26:500:26:58

split across the party over Brexit.

That isn't the case at all. In the

0:26:580:27:03

grass roots in the north, people

like and still respect Theresa May

0:27:030:27:08

because she's the Prime Minister on

the country. She can only be judged

0:27:080:27:11

at any point on the deal is put on

the table. Locally, in the north, we

0:27:110:27:15

have a lot of issues. Conservative

parties have scrapped the house

0:27:150:27:21

letting fees and we are doing as

much as we can for the energy bill

0:27:210:27:26

to be capped. We care for the people

in the North, and their likelihood,

0:27:260:27:31

as well as the Brexit deal. In my

city of Wakefield we are not allowed

0:27:310:27:37

to have a stadium of our own for the

Super League rugby club, which is

0:27:370:27:42

what the council has promised us

over and over. These are the issues,

0:27:420:27:47

together with Brexit, Brexit isn't

the only issue we are facing in the

0:27:470:27:52

North.

Another important word, other

than Brexit, budget.

We have a

0:27:520:28:01

situation where Philip Hammond will

make the case on Wednesday.

0:28:010:28:04

Hopefully we will see more budget

towards house-building. Sajid Javid

0:28:040:28:08

has called for that recently forced

up as a young person myself, I am

0:28:080:28:12

27, and I am acutely aware we did

not win the young vote in June's

0:28:120:28:16

election. I think we need to have a

mass recalibration of conservative

0:28:160:28:21

values. We need to make the case for

our party. The Broadchurch that it

0:28:210:28:27

is, which has activists like us, and

historical figures and amazing

0:28:270:28:32

politicians within it, from the

backbenches to ministerial ranks,

0:28:320:28:37

Heidi Alan, Lord Heseltine, lots of

diverse voices within the

0:28:370:28:43

Conservative Party. I would like to

see a good vision for our country

0:28:430:28:47

beyond Brexit put forward with the

budget in place. When it comes to

0:28:470:28:52

house-building, it's such an

important point for young people

0:28:520:28:54

like myself. We want to see a

calling and support for businesses,

0:28:540:28:59

especially beyond Brexit. There are

a lot of different issues the

0:28:590:29:04

government is grappling with and we

need to give them the space to get

0:29:040:29:09

on with it.

We will leave it there.

0:29:090:29:13

Still to come...

0:29:130:29:14

Is this the end of regular

cervical screens?

0:29:140:29:16

According to a new study women may

only need three in a lifetime

0:29:160:29:19

if they have been given

the HPV vaccine.

0:29:190:29:21

We'll be discussing this research.

0:29:210:29:23

And two more high profile men have

been accused of sexual abuse.

0:29:230:29:26

We'll get the latest

from Hollywood.

0:29:260:29:29

Time for the latest

news - here's Rachel.

0:29:320:29:35

The headlines from BBC News...

0:29:350:29:38

Theresa May has warned pro-EU

Conservatives that she will not

0:29:380:29:42

tolerate any attempts to block

the Brexit process.

0:29:420:29:45

In a sign of her intent,

she's outlined plans to enshrine

0:29:450:29:49

in law the exact moment that Britain

will leave the European Union -

0:29:490:29:52

11pm on 29th March, 2019.

0:29:520:29:57

But the man responsible for writing

the Article 50 withdrawal process,

0:29:570:30:02

cross-bench peer Lord John Kerr,

says Brexit could still be reversed.

0:30:020:30:06

A new study is recommending that

women who have had the HPV vaccine

0:30:060:30:09

only need to have three smear tests

during their life, rather than

0:30:090:30:12

the 12 they're currently offered.

0:30:120:30:15

The vaccine, which helps prevent

against cervical cancer,

0:30:150:30:19

has been given to girls aged 11

to 13 since 2008.

0:30:190:30:24

The study, funded by Cancer Research

UK, comes ahead of proposed changed

0:30:240:30:27

to the NHS cervical cancer screening

programme due to come in 2019.

0:30:270:30:29

Donald Trump has told Asia

and Pacific leaders America will no

0:30:370:30:44

longer tolerate what he calls

chronic trade abuses.

0:30:440:30:45

The US President is in Vietnam

at the Asia Pacific Economic

0:30:450:30:48

Co-operation summit.

0:30:480:30:49

During a hard-hitting speech,

he said America was prepared to work

0:30:490:30:52

with countries in the region,

provided they abide

0:30:520:30:54

by what he called "fair

and reciprocal trade".

0:30:540:31:01

From this day forward, we will

compete on a fair and equal basis.

0:31:010:31:05

We are not going to let

the United States be taken

0:31:050:31:07

advantage of any more.

0:31:070:31:13

I am always going to put America

first, the same way I expect

0:31:130:31:20

all of you in this room

to put your countries first.

0:31:200:31:23

The actor and producer Steven Seagal

is the latest Hollywood figure to be

0:31:230:31:26

accused of sexual harassment.

0:31:260:31:32

The actor Portia de Rossi,

who is married to the US talk show

0:31:320:31:35

host Ellen DeGeneres,

made the allegation in a tweet.

0:31:350:31:37

She claims that during a film

audition Mr Seagal told her "how

0:31:370:31:40

important it was to have chemistry

off-screen" before

0:31:400:31:42

unzipping his trousers.

0:31:420:31:45

Mr Seagal's manager told the BBC

that the actor had no comment.

0:31:450:31:55

The French President Emmanuel Macron

is making an unscheduled visit

0:31:550:31:57

to Saudi Arabia to discuss

the crisis in Lebanon

0:31:570:32:00

after the Prime Minister,

Saad Hariri, resigned on Saturday.

0:32:000:32:04

Lebanon risks being the battleground

in the fight between the Saudis

0:32:040:32:06

and Iran for regional supremacy.

0:32:060:32:10

Saudi Arabia has told its citizens

to leave Lebanon immediately and not

0:32:100:32:13

to travel there from any country.

0:32:130:32:20

Universities are to be warned not

to use misleading language or claims

0:32:200:32:23

as they try to attract students.

0:32:230:32:24

With hundreds of thousands of young

people in the process

0:32:240:32:27

of applying for courses,

the BBC understands the advertising

0:32:270:32:30

watchdog is to tell universities

next week that they need to prove

0:32:300:32:33

the accuracy of wording used

in their marketing material.

0:32:330:32:37

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

0:32:370:32:46

Let's get some sport now with

Damien.

0:32:460:32:53

Northern Ireland face a huge task

to qualify for the World Cup

0:32:530:32:57

after a controversial 1-0 defeat

to Switzerland in their

0:32:570:33:00

play-off in Belfast.

0:33:000:33:00

Cory Evans was the victim

of what looked a cruel injustice

0:33:000:33:03

when he was adjudged to have handled

in the area and Ricardo Rodriguez

0:33:030:33:06

gave the Swiss a lead to take

into Sunday's second leg.

0:33:060:33:09

The players of both England

and Germany will wear black armbands

0:33:090:33:12

with poppies for tonight's friendly

at Wembley in remembrance of fallen

0:33:120:33:14

servicemen and women,

after Fifa agreed to change

0:33:140:33:16

to its rules.

0:33:160:33:17

England's women are trying to bowl

out the Australians on day two

0:33:170:33:20

of the one-off Ashes Test in Sydney.

0:33:200:33:22

It is a must win game for England.

0:33:220:33:24

England are currently going well.

0:33:240:33:27

The Aussies are four wickets down

in the final session of the day.

0:33:270:33:34

And former GB Olympian Jess

Varnish is suing UK Sport

0:33:340:33:36

and British Cycling.

0:33:360:33:37

A source close to the sprinter has

told BBC Sport her legal action

0:33:370:33:40

is based on claims she suffered sex

discrimination, detriment

0:33:400:33:42

for whistleblowing, victimisation

and unfair dismissal.

0:33:420:33:45

That is all the sport for now.

0:33:450:33:47

Women vaccinated against human

papilloma virus, or HPV,

0:33:470:33:52

which is thought to cause about 99%

of cervical cancers,

0:33:520:33:54

may only need three smear

tests in their lifetime,

0:33:540:33:56

a new study has suggested.

0:33:560:33:57

Since 2008, the HPV vaccine has been

offered to girls aged 11 to 13

0:33:570:34:06

and reported cases have

fallen sharply since then.

0:34:060:34:08

A team from Queen Mary

University of London

0:34:080:34:10

found that screenings at age 30,

40 and 55 would offer the same

0:34:100:34:13

benefit to these young women

as the current 12 screenings.

0:34:130:34:16

The study comes ahead of changes

being planned to the screening

0:34:160:34:19

programme in England for 2019,

and similar adjustments

0:34:190:34:21

in Scotland and Wales.

0:34:210:34:24

At the moment, labs test

for abnormalities in cells

0:34:240:34:27

taken in a smear test,

but the new tests will check

0:34:270:34:32

for the presence of HPV first,

and only check for abnormal cells

0:34:320:34:35

if the virus is found.

0:34:350:34:42

Joining us now, Mandy Parker

was diagnosed with cervical cancer

0:34:420:34:45

in 2015 after a routine smear test,

and she had to have a hysterectomy.

0:34:450:34:49

She also has two daughters,

aged 17 and 14, who both

0:34:490:34:51

had the HPV vaccine.

0:34:510:34:52

Nicola Smith is Cancer Research

UK's health expert.

0:34:520:35:00

And Professor Anne Mackie

is the Director of Screening

0:35:000:35:02

at Public Health England.

0:35:020:35:05

Welcome to the programme. Nicola,

tell us more about why this study is

0:35:050:35:11

so significant?

This was a study

funded by Cancer Research UK,

0:35:110:35:15

modelling study looking at, for

those girls who had the HBV vaccine

0:35:150:35:20

who are approaching screening age

now, what their screening programme

0:35:200:35:23

might need to look like to get the

same amount of benefit as women

0:35:230:35:27

currently get through the programme,

because they have this huge added

0:35:270:35:31

protection against cervical cancer

through the HPV vaccination they

0:35:310:35:35

have had. This modelling study took

into account different

0:35:350:35:48

factors the fact that the HPV

primary test that you mentioned will

0:35:530:35:55

be being introduced, and it

suggested that to get the same

0:35:550:35:57

amount of benefit as the current

programme, the girls who have had

0:35:570:36:00

the HPV vaccination will only need

three smears instead of the current

0:36:000:36:02

12.

Why does that matter, why three

rather than 12?

We are keen to make

0:36:020:36:05

sure women are getting the same

benefits but if they can do so with

0:36:050:36:08

fewer procedures, if they need to go

less often, that is a great thing

0:36:080:36:11

for these women.

So people are being

vaccinated but HPV, is human

0:36:110:36:13

papillomavirus, what is it?

It is a

virus linked to all cases of

0:36:130:36:18

cervical cancer. For most people you

will get infected with the virus and

0:36:180:36:22

clear it and be fine, but in some

cases the virus does persist and for

0:36:220:36:27

those people who don't clear it, it

can cause cervical cancer, so it is

0:36:270:36:32

important that we vaccinate against

it in girls now that we have the

0:36:320:36:37

opportunity to do that, but the HPV

vaccine only protect about 70% of

0:36:370:36:43

infections with HPV so that is why

it is important that these girls

0:36:430:36:46

still have some smears because there

is still a chance that they will

0:36:460:36:50

still get the other HPV types we are

not protecting against.

Mandy, you

0:36:500:36:56

were diagnosed with cervical cancer

in 2015, can you tell us what

0:36:560:36:59

happened? How did you find out?

It

was through my regular screening, I

0:36:590:37:05

had never missed one, I went in June

2015, no symptoms, went along as

0:37:050:37:10

normal and had the screening and

unfortunately they called me back

0:37:100:37:13

because there were abnormal cells

and in September 2015I had a radical

0:37:130:37:19

hysterectomy due to early-stage

cervical cancer. But it was an

0:37:190:37:22

aggressive grade so I was told that

if I had not gone for screening it

0:37:220:37:25

would be a totally different story,

I would not still be here to tell

0:37:250:37:29

the tale now.

It is so important and

it is a great thing about the new

0:37:290:37:37

HPV screening because that is what

caused my cervical cancer. In the

0:37:370:37:39

way it is down to look for you

because you were approaching a

0:37:390:37:42

screening but otherwise it would

have been another three years?

Yes,

0:37:420:37:47

another three years, and women lead

busy lives, it is important to put

0:37:470:37:50

it off but it is important that

people attend on time because they

0:37:500:37:54

can detect early changes so it was

not as bad as it could have been.

0:37:540:37:59

How like other cases were jewels in

that there were no symptoms?

I had

0:37:590:38:02

no symptoms, I just went along, I

have never had an abnormal screening

0:38:020:38:07

so I didn't think there would be

anything different in this one, I

0:38:070:38:11

didn't have any symptoms, but that

is not the case for other people,

0:38:110:38:18

other people can have symptoms, but

I didn't, but if I had missed the

0:38:180:38:21

screening it would have been worse.

How do you feel about the news

0:38:210:38:26

today...

I think it is brilliant.

You have two teenage daughters?

I

0:38:260:38:32

do, they have both been vaccinated,

I would encourage everyone to have

0:38:320:38:36

the HPV vaccine, that is what caused

my cervical cancer.

Why is it so

0:38:360:38:42

important for girls to have the HPV

vaccine?

To stop them getting

0:38:420:38:46

cervical cancer, in the end, and

that is what we want. It is really

0:38:460:38:50

exciting times for cervical cancer,

we now know what causes it, we can

0:38:500:38:55

look for it and, as you say, we are

turning the programme over so we

0:38:550:39:00

will look for that rather than

abnormal cells, which is a better,

0:39:000:39:03

simpler test and we have a real

prospect of stopping it happening in

0:39:030:39:06

the first place and how fantastic is

that?

When will it come in? This is

0:39:060:39:11

what the study has found, when could

this new screening programme kick

0:39:110:39:15

in?

I think the important thing to

say is this is a model, so what the

0:39:150:39:20

researchers have done is say, if

this happens and happened in this

0:39:200:39:23

way, then the chances are it would

be safe for women to have many, many

0:39:230:39:29

fewer screenings. What the programme

is doing at the moment is

0:39:290:39:33

concentrating on changing from the

cytology test, looking at the cells

0:39:330:39:35

under the microscope, to looking at

the emergence of the virus, and we

0:39:350:39:41

will get that into place by the end

of 2019. The other thing to say is

0:39:410:39:46

that the girls who have been

vaccinated are coming up to 21, 22,

0:39:460:39:51

and we start screening at 25, and we

know that screening is being taken

0:39:510:39:55

up by fewer women, the rate of

people taking up screening are

0:39:550:40:02

declining.

Why do you think that is?

All sorts of reasons but before I go

0:40:020:40:07

there, but I want to do is say that

I will probably be dead by the time

0:40:070:40:11

the current 25-year-old As are right

the way through the programme

0:40:110:40:15

because it does not finish until 65

so we really need to be clear that

0:40:150:40:20

for women who have not been

vaccinated it is incredibly

0:40:200:40:23

important they go and get a

screening test, which we are making

0:40:230:40:26

better.

Instead of people saying, I

only need to be screened three

0:40:260:40:30

times, the key thing is having had

that HPV vaccine at a young age. How

0:40:300:40:36

long, once you have had that,

schoolgirls have the HPV vaccine,

0:40:360:40:40

how long does it last?

That is a

good question and part of the reason

0:40:400:40:44

that what has been done is a model

because across the world we have

0:40:440:40:50

been vaccinating since 2008 or so.

The evidence is very strong that it

0:40:500:40:55

lasts a long time, but we are

continuing to gather the data to see

0:40:550:41:00

whether people remain protected.

Nicola, do you want to come in

0:41:000:41:05

before we come back to the reasons

why?

Yes, the main aim of the

0:41:050:41:09

cervical screening programme is

actually prevention rather than

0:41:090:41:13

diagnosis, although it does pick up

some cases of cervical cancer

0:41:130:41:16

actually for a lot of women who get

abnormal results those cell changes

0:41:160:41:22

are actually precancerous, things

that can be dealt with, they can be

0:41:220:41:25

removed or dealt with before it even

has a chance to develop into cancer,

0:41:250:41:30

so although Mandy's experience is

unfortunate, for a lot of women when

0:41:300:41:34

they go through the smear process it

will be fine and if those abnormal

0:41:340:41:39

cells are picked up hopefully it can

be dealt with before they turn into

0:41:390:41:43

cancer.

Can we then, in theory, get

to a stage where we really do

0:41:430:41:48

minimise cases of serious cervical

cancer? I don't want to use the word

0:41:480:41:54

eliminate, but get to that stage...

Another piece of work that Peter has

0:41:540:41:59

done is suggest that if people took

up the screening offer as the

0:41:590:42:03

programme is now, we would stop more

than 80% of cases of cervical

0:42:030:42:06

cancer. It is incredibly effective

set of things to do.

But having said

0:42:060:42:12

that, you say there are declining

numbers of women going for

0:42:120:42:15

screening? Why?

It is interesting, I

think there is a mix of reasons.

0:42:150:42:21

Apart from the obvious that it is

not necessarily, the procedure

0:42:210:42:27

itself, although it does not take

long, it might not be the most

0:42:270:42:30

comfortable thing to do for people?

Some people find it uncomfortable

0:42:300:42:33

and some people are worried they

will find it uncomfortable. People

0:42:330:42:37

lead busy lives, if you have three

jobs and four children, you have got

0:42:370:42:42

other things to worry about, it can

be difficult sometimes to get access

0:42:420:42:45

to a GP or clinic to do these

things, and some really interesting

0:42:450:42:50

work suggests that about five to 8%

of people who have not had it have

0:42:500:43:04

never heard of it, so we have got a

huge amount of work to promote it,

0:43:040:43:07

and programmes like this are very

helpful.

Just spinach, your final

0:43:070:43:09

pitch to people washing the

programme who have perhaps ignored

0:43:090:43:11

the doctors' letter and have not

been for a screening, what would you

0:43:110:43:14

say to them?

I would say it is

essential, just go, it does not

0:43:140:43:16

matter if you have missed a letter,

go and book your screening and the

0:43:160:43:19

cervical Cancer trust is there to

help anyone who is frightened about

0:43:190:43:22

going for a smear test and to help

along the procedure so I would urge

0:43:220:43:26

people to take up the invitation.

This Cancer Research UK modelling

0:43:260:43:31

study is just a modelling study. For

now, we are not going to see these

0:43:310:43:37

changes implemented, so people, take

note of the invitation when it comes

0:43:370:43:40

through the post, and watch this

space.

Get your daughters vaccinated

0:43:400:43:44

and take up the offer when it comes.

I know I said that was a final thing

0:43:440:43:48

but our boys affected by this?

Boys

certainly have HPV but my colleague

0:43:480:43:54

said that the rates of protection we

are giving, 80% of girls are not

0:43:540:44:01

going to get it, so the whole

population benefits. HPV is in a bad

0:44:010:44:05

way and there should be much less of

it right the way across the

0:44:050:44:09

population.

Thank you very much

indeed.

0:44:090:44:11

Coming up...

0:44:110:44:15

A last minute goal at

Anfield to win the title -

0:44:150:44:17

that's a cherished memory

for many Arsenal fans,

0:44:170:44:19

and it's now been made into a film.

0:44:190:44:21

We're speaking to Lee Dixon,

who was part of that winning team.

0:44:210:44:24

Another day, yet more allegations

about inappropriate sexual

0:44:240:44:26

behaviour in Hollywood.

0:44:260:44:27

The actor Steven Seagal

is the latest star to be accused

0:44:270:44:30

of sexual harrassment,

after this tweet from

0:44:300:44:32

the actress Portia de Rossi.

0:44:320:44:35

The Arrested Development actress,

who is married to US talk show

0:44:350:44:38

host Ellen DeGeneres,

claims that during a film audition

0:44:380:44:43

Mr Seagal told her "how important

it was to have chemistry off-screen"

0:44:430:44:47

before unzipping his trousers.

0:44:470:44:48

His manager told BBC News

that the actor had no comment.

0:44:480:44:58

Meanwhile Emmy Award-winning US

comedian Louis CK's movie premiere

0:45:020:45:04

has been cancelled hours before

the screening, as five women

0:45:040:45:06

accused him of sexual misconduct.

0:45:060:45:07

The BBC has contacted his

manager for a comment.

0:45:070:45:09

Let's speak to the Hollywood

reporter Gayl Murphy,

0:45:090:45:11

who's in Los Angeles.

0:45:110:45:15

Good morning. Can you tell us what

the latest allegations are?

You can

0:45:150:45:25

add Steven Seagal, and American

comedian Louis CK to the list of

0:45:250:45:30

alleged sexual allegations that

include the likes of Kevin Spacey,

0:45:300:45:34

Dustin Hoffman, Brett Ratner, Jeremy

Piven. Everyday people are waking up

0:45:340:45:45

in Hollywood and trying to find out

and figure out who is next. It's

0:45:450:45:50

surprising, when you look at the

list, people like Dustin Hoffman and

0:45:500:46:00

Jeremy Piven, these are just

allegations and we have to be clear

0:46:000:46:03

about that, but we get glimpses into

these peoples lives we did not

0:46:030:46:07

necessarily want to see. I was

talking to producer earlier about

0:46:070:46:12

how this is almost like a tsunami.

You know how you see those

0:46:120:46:18

documentaries about, how clean is

your house, and they take the

0:46:180:46:24

ultraviolet, and you think your

bedding is clean and they take the

0:46:240:46:27

ultraviolet light and all of a

sudden you think, where did all this

0:46:270:46:31

dirt come from? It's like that,

hiding in plain sight. It's just a

0:46:310:46:37

very unsettling time. It's a good

time in the fact that women now feel

0:46:370:46:42

comfortable, more comfortable,

speaking out about what happened to

0:46:420:46:48

them and their experience. The

screen actors Guild is stepping up.

0:46:480:46:52

The TV Academy is stepping up and

saying they will make themselves

0:46:520:46:58

safe places for you. If something

happens to you under the umbrella of

0:46:580:47:04

a Castlin, you can come to us, and

we will make it safe for you. One of

0:47:040:47:09

the misnomers about Hollywood is

that there is somewhere to go and

0:47:090:47:13

someone who will support you, but

that isn't true, there is no HR

0:47:130:47:16

Department. So every day it's

something else and something more

0:47:160:47:23

against what we are hearing about a

lot of these claims and allegations

0:47:230:47:27

through social media channels.

Can

you give us a sense of the mood and

0:47:270:47:35

reaction in Hollywood.

The reaction

in Hollywood is everybody's holding

0:47:350:47:41

their breath. They don't know who is

next. You think you know someone. I

0:47:410:47:51

had an experience with somebody

that's terrific, and you have

0:47:510:47:55

experienced the same person and it's

dreadful. You never really know. And

0:47:550:48:00

when you are dealing with power and

money and dealing in a business,

0:48:000:48:09

these are all wild cards and you

don't really know what's going to

0:48:090:48:11

happen. It's not even a matter of,

why don't you just tell your agent.

0:48:110:48:16

Your agent can't make that decision.

They have to push it upstairs. The

0:48:160:48:21

same thing with your manager.

You

say that, but Portia de Rossi said

0:48:210:48:27

in her tweet, her complaints about

Steven Seagal's behaviour were

0:48:270:48:30

dismissed at the time by her agent.

Isn't the onus on Hollywood agents

0:48:300:48:35

to do more to protect their clients?

It's like a supply chain. Every

0:48:350:48:42

single step along the way has to be

revisited. Typically come in a

0:48:420:48:49

corporate environment, you have an

HR department that has an entire

0:48:490:48:53

mechanism. It has a road map and has

the rules that you follow to

0:48:530:48:58

actually investigate anything to do

with sexual harassment on a job. You

0:48:580:49:06

don't have that where everybody is a

freelancer. Even if you have an

0:49:060:49:10

agent or manager, there is no

guarantee because he or she could

0:49:100:49:14

lose their job. They really just

want you to shut up and not rock the

0:49:140:49:21

boat.

Thank you for speaking to us.

You have been getting in touch on

0:49:210:49:28

the stories we have been talking

about this morning. Theresa May's

0:49:280:49:32

week and the Brexit date and time

will be enshrined in law. Sarah on

0:49:320:49:39

Facebook says Brexit should not be

politicised to gain brownie points

0:49:390:49:42

for the Conservative Party. It

should be for the good of the

0:49:420:49:45

country as a whole. It should be a

consortium from across the country

0:49:450:49:49

from businesses to education

planning the Brexit strategy. Take

0:49:490:49:53

it away from politicians who are

only self-interested. Matt on

0:49:530:49:58

Facebook says Brexit day can't come

soon enough. Let it also be

0:49:580:50:01

enshrined as a public holiday. You

have also been talking about HPV, a

0:50:010:50:08

tweet from Mike, it's fantastic

girls get free vaccinations from

0:50:080:50:12

HPV, but boys need it as well.

Speaking as a man who has had HPV

0:50:120:50:18

related oral cancer. And an e-mail

from Helen, my mother and sister

0:50:180:50:22

both had cervical cancer and I had

banal cancer, the vaccine would have

0:50:220:50:26

helped us all. Coming up on the

programme, we are expecting the

0:50:260:50:31

ruling...

0:50:310:50:35

We're expecting the ruling

in a court case about whether Uber

0:50:350:50:37

drivers should be considered

employees and all the

0:50:370:50:39

entitlements that brings.

0:50:390:50:40

We'll speak to the driver

who brought the case.

0:50:400:50:42

It was one of the most

sensational ends to a football

0:50:420:50:45

season in history.

0:50:450:50:46

Let me take you back to Anfield,

the 26th of May 1989.

0:50:460:50:51

Liverpool are three points ahead

of their title rivals Arsenal -

0:50:510:50:53

crucially, their goal difference

is one better.

0:50:530:50:56

And by a twist of fate,

the fixture list has them playing

0:50:560:50:59

each other on the final day

of the season.

0:50:590:51:02

To win the league, Arsenal

would have to not only do

0:51:020:51:06

what so many teams in the 1980s

thought was virtually unthinkable -

0:51:060:51:11

beat Liverpool at Anfield -

but they'd have to do it

0:51:110:51:13

by two clear goals.

0:51:130:51:16

So, leading 1-0, into the last

minute of the game, it looked

0:51:160:51:19

like Arsenal had just fallen short.

0:51:190:51:24

If you are a Liverpool fan you might

want to turn away for a couple of

0:51:240:51:27

minutes.

0:51:270:51:28

Then a couple of long

balls up the pitch,

0:51:280:51:30

and Arsenal's Michael Thomas found

himself with just

0:51:300:51:32

Liverpool's keeper to beat.

0:51:320:51:33

He did.

And the Gunners won the title.

0:51:330:51:35

Hairs on the back

of your neck stuff.

0:51:350:51:39

Well, they've made a film about it-

called Arsenal 89 -

0:51:390:51:41

and one of the heroes of that day

is here now.

0:51:410:51:44

But first let's take a look-

and a warning, this trailer

0:51:440:51:46

contains flashing images.

0:51:460:51:51

It's easily the best finish I have

ever seen in a football match. Ever.

0:51:510:51:58

Its 100 years since...

0:51:580:52:03

Liverpool were the team to beat.

We

didn't want to fail.

0:52:140:52:24

We have to win by two clear goals.

Seriously!

You think Liverpool are

0:52:270:52:33

going to win?

Yeah, who's going to

beat them?

LAUGHTER

0:52:330:52:40

Smith!

0:52:400:52:43

It was desire as well as technical

ability.

Success, you will do

0:52:470:52:53

anything to get it.

I can't

emphasise enough how the crowds...

0:52:530:53:06

One more goal and Arsenal will win

it.

One minute to go.

There must be

0:53:060:53:15

seconds left.

Then it goes into slow

motion.

Arsenal come streaming

0:53:150:53:22

forward in what will surely be the

last attack.

I'm looking straight

0:53:220:53:25

down the pitch and I'm thinking,

this must be my time.

What are you

0:53:250:53:31

doing? Kick it, I'm shouting.

Isn't

it lovely to have moments in your

0:53:310:53:39

life where you think, nothing can

beat that.

0:53:390:53:43

Let's talk now to former Arsenal

and England defender Lee Dixon.

0:53:430:53:49

You were just saying that watching

the trailer, you still get goose

0:53:490:53:53

bumps.

It gets me every time. I have

seen the finished version of the

0:53:530:53:57

film probably five or six times, but

even watching the trailer, I always

0:53:570:54:01

think he's going to miss, he's going

to hit the post and it's going to

0:54:010:54:06

come out and something bad is going

to happen, but it goes in every

0:54:060:54:10

time.

Take this back to that day in

1989. The anticipation of what it

0:54:100:54:17

was like to play at Anfield.

It was

an incredible season right

0:54:170:54:22

throughout, not only with what

happened at Hillsborough right in

0:54:220:54:25

the middle, which was hugely

emotional, but going to the end of

0:54:250:54:28

the season, we were top of the

league. Liverpool were this shadow

0:54:280:54:32

coming up behind us and winning

every game they played. We had a

0:54:320:54:36

wobble before the end of the season,

lost a game and drew at home. Going

0:54:360:54:42

to Anfield, I think because we

needed to win 2-0, strangely enough

0:54:420:54:47

it played in our favour. We were

quite relaxed.

Underdogs?

Yeah, it

0:54:470:54:53

is a David and Goliath thing. Deep

down we knew we could win, but in

0:54:530:54:58

our heads, certainly my head, I

thought if we get beat 4-0, nobody

0:54:580:55:03

will be surprised because Liverpool

were a juggernaut of a team who

0:55:030:55:06

could win every game they played. It

was an intimidating game but

0:55:060:55:11

strangely relaxing when we went onto

the pitch. The biggest moment was

0:55:110:55:18

handing over flowers before the

game. It was almost like handing

0:55:180:55:23

over... Hillsborough was in our

thoughts not only leading up to the

0:55:230:55:26

game but on the night as well.

Handing over the flowers was

0:55:260:55:29

symbolic for me. I was then allowed

to go back to playing football. It

0:55:290:55:34

was a big night in all ways.

I have

seen it, and you get a sense in

0:55:340:55:39

watching it, because of Hillsborough

happening, and you say yourself in

0:55:390:55:44

it, you didn't think the league

would continue that here.

I didn't,

0:55:440:55:46

and I didn't want it to. We had two

weeks where we didn't play. George

0:55:460:55:54

try to get us to come in to

training, but none of the lads were

0:55:540:55:58

interested. It was all going on in

the media as well. Why would

0:55:580:56:04

football matter, and why should it

matter? It didn't stop what you can

0:56:040:56:09

see how devastated you all were and

how devastated everyone was. -- it

0:56:090:56:13

didn't stop whites you can see how

devastated you all were...

Stop

0:56:130:56:20

. It soured

0:56:240:56:26

it's our job to go out and play

football. You can go back to this

0:56:300:56:34

now. That's how your mind has to

work. You have a game every two or

0:56:340:56:38

three days with a match coming

round. The end of the season was

0:56:380:56:42

looming. The team ethic carried us

through a lot of dark times. We knew

0:56:420:56:49

we had the league, we threw it away

and it was our turn to try to win it

0:56:490:56:53

back in that game stop

0:56:530:56:56

.

Was that the biggest game in our

store's history?

It was for me. Even

0:57:010:57:06

kids now ask what the biggest memory

was. I say Anfield in 1989, and a

0:57:060:57:12

lot of them were not even born.

I

would like to say I wasn't, but I

0:57:120:57:17

was.

It pushes it into people's

memories again. Not only Arsenal

0:57:170:57:21

fans but football fans in general.

We were originally going to call the

0:57:210:57:26

film, the goal that changed

everything. Not only did it change

0:57:260:57:30

the Arsenal history, but it dented

Liverpool as well. Also the face of

0:57:300:57:34

football. Because it was after

Hillsborough, everything changed. We

0:57:340:57:38

changed it back to 89 because it was

shorter and symbolic. It's a film

0:57:380:57:47

about football and about the story

and as well as Arsenal.

I look

0:57:470:57:53

forward to seeing it in its

entirety. We can get the weather

0:57:530:57:58

next with Nick Miller.

0:57:580:57:59

A lot of sunny weather around this

weekend, especially by Sunday, but

0:58:020:58:07

temperatures are coming down with

cold weather on the way. Looking at

0:58:070:58:10

your pictures from Friday's weather,

plenty of showers in Highland

0:58:100:58:15

Scotland but sunshine in between. A

glorious start day in Norfolk. There

0:58:150:58:20

are parts of England and Wales that

have started with rain but it has

0:58:200:58:23

cleared away south with increasing

sunshine across South Wales and

0:58:230:58:28

southern England. It still wet on

the ground but the sun has come out

0:58:280:58:32

and it will be a pleasant day. On

this north-westerly wind we will

0:58:320:58:36

have showers running into north-west

England, they'd some drifting into

0:58:360:58:40

the Midlands, maybe clip in Northern

Ireland and the north and west of

0:58:400:58:43

Scotland. A blustery start to the

day. Staying quite windy. The

0:58:430:58:49

showers might have hail and thunder.

Wintry in the hills above 300

0:58:490:58:53

metres, but lots of sunshine in

south-east Scotland. It's a fine

0:58:530:58:58

Friday on the way for many of us, if

you dodge the showers that are out

0:58:580:59:02

there. The chilly wind will be

important, especially across

0:59:020:59:08

Scotland, northern England and

Northern Ireland. Into tonight,

0:59:080:59:12

temperatures dropping quite quickly

in Scotland as the wind uses.

0:59:120:59:16

Further clear spells and showers in

the North with a touch of Frost in

0:59:160:59:19

places. We could see a spell of rain

moving through this evening into

0:59:190:59:26

Northern Ireland, England and Wales

overnight. Temperatures holding up.

0:59:260:59:29

They could be some icy patches in

northern Scotland especially on

0:59:290:59:33

untreated higher routes after some

of those showers after temperatures

0:59:330:59:36

have dipped. Sunshine in northern

England, sunshine developing in

0:59:360:59:41

Northern Ireland and perhaps the

Midlands and East Anglia later in

0:59:410:59:44

the day. Large parts staying cloudy

in central and south England. Rain

0:59:440:59:52

in the south-west of England and

South Wales. Maybe as far east as

0:59:520:59:56

Sussex. It is chilly in the

sunshine. Some rain pepping up South

0:59:561:00:04

Wales and south England, but we

think that's gone by Sunday morning.

1:00:041:00:09

A cold bush of Arctic air from the

north on Sunday with temperatures

1:00:091:00:13

dipping for all of us. There will be

a lot of dry and sunny weather on

1:00:131:00:20

Sunday. The difference being that on

the North Sea coast, northern

1:00:201:00:23

Scotland, the Irish Sea coast, you

might see showers, but many of us

1:00:231:00:27

will have a sunny day. But

temperatures will dip and it will be

1:00:271:00:30

chilly.

1:00:301:00:31

Hello, it's Friday, it's 10am.

1:00:351:00:39

I'm Tina Daheley.

1:00:391:00:41

Theresa May says she wants to put

the date and time when the UK

1:00:411:00:44

will leave the EU into law.

1:00:441:00:45

It'll be 11pm on 29th March, 2019.

1:00:451:00:47

But former Conservative Deputy Prime

Minister Lord Heseltine told this

1:00:471:00:54

programme she's introducing

uncertainty at exactly

1:00:541:00:55

the wrong time.

1:00:551:00:59

Fixing in law the date will merely

accelerate people's decision to take

1:00:591:01:04

investment elsewhere,

not to make investment here.

1:01:041:01:09

Frankly, it's a panic measure,

reflecting the growing anxiety that

1:01:091:01:12

hostility to Brexit is growing.

1:01:121:01:17

Uber drivers will find out today

the outcome of the company's appeal

1:01:171:01:20

against a ruling saying drivers

should be classed as workers,

1:01:201:01:23

rather than self-employed.

1:01:231:01:28

We'll talk to one of the drivers

who brought the original case.

1:01:281:01:31

We're up against it,

we're up against an army of lawyers

1:01:311:01:34

an army of PR consultants,

an army of lobbyists.

1:01:341:01:36

But I think we'll prevail.

1:01:361:01:40

We will bring you the ruling when it

happens.

1:01:401:01:43

Potential victims of revenge porn

are being asked to send

1:01:431:01:45

Facebook their nude photos

so the company can use technology

1:01:451:01:48

to block former partners

from posting them online.

1:01:481:01:49

It's a pilot project in Australia.

1:01:491:01:51

We'll find out more.

1:01:511:02:01

Here's Rachel in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

1:02:011:02:06

The headlines from BBC News...

1:02:061:02:09

Theresa May has warned pro-EU

Conservatives that she will not

1:02:091:02:11

tolerate any attempts to block

the Brexit process.

1:02:111:02:16

In a sign of her intent,

she's outlined plans to enshrine

1:02:161:02:18

in law the exact moment that Britain

will leave the European Union -

1:02:181:02:22

11pm on 29th March, 2019.

1:02:221:02:28

But the man responsible for writing

the Article 50 withdrawal process,

1:02:281:02:30

cross-bench peer Lord John Kerr,

says Brexit could still be reversed.

1:02:301:02:40

While we're in, we're in. While the

divorce talks proceeds, the parties

1:02:411:02:46

are still married. Reconciliation is

still possible. The article requires

1:02:461:02:51

the parties to negotiate the

arrangements for our withdrawal, but

1:02:511:02:58

we are not required to withdraw just

because Mrs May sent her letter. We

1:02:581:03:04

can change our minds at any stage

during the process.

1:03:041:03:08

A new study is recommending that

women who have had the HPV vaccine

1:03:081:03:11

only need to have three smear tests

during their life, rather than

1:03:111:03:14

the 12 they're currently offered.

1:03:141:03:17

The vaccine, which helps prevent

against cervical cancer,

1:03:171:03:22

has been given to girls aged 11

to 13 since 2008.

1:03:221:03:25

The study, funded by Cancer Research

UK, comes ahead of proposed changed

1:03:251:03:35

-- changes to the NHS cervical

cancer screening programme

1:03:361:03:38

due to come in 2019.

1:03:381:03:43

Donald Trump has told Asia

and Pacific leaders America will no

1:03:431:03:45

longer tolerate what he calls

chronic trade abuses.

1:03:451:03:48

The US President is in Vietnam

at the Asia-Pacific Economic

1:03:481:03:51

Co-operation summit.

1:03:511:03:52

During a hard-hitting speech,

he said America was prepared to work

1:03:521:03:55

with countries in the region,

provided they abide

1:03:551:03:57

by what he called "fair

and reciprocal trade".

1:03:571:04:02

The French President Emmanuel Macron

is making an unscheduled visit

1:04:021:04:05

to Saudi Arabia to discuss

the crisis in Lebanon

1:04:051:04:08

after the Prime Minister,

Saad Hariri, resigned on Saturday.

1:04:081:04:12

Lebanon risks being the battleground

in the fight between the Saudis

1:04:121:04:15

and Iran for regional supremacy.

1:04:151:04:19

Saudi Arabia has told its citizens

to leave Lebanon immediately and not

1:04:191:04:22

to travel there from any country.

1:04:221:04:26

A police force is facing

a High Court challenge today

1:04:261:04:31

over its refusal to delete

the details of a teenaged boy

1:04:311:04:33

who sent a naked picture of himself

on social media to a girl

1:04:331:04:36

at his school.

1:04:361:04:39

The boy's mother is concerned that

Greater Manchester Police may

1:04:391:04:41

release the information to potential

employers when he's older.

1:04:411:04:46

Facebook's founding president has

said he's worried about the effect

1:04:461:04:49

the site is having on society.

1:04:491:04:52

Sean Parker, who says he no

longer uses social media,

1:04:521:04:57

said the network was built

on "exploiting a vulnerability

1:04:571:04:59

in human psychology",

and he was concerned

1:04:591:05:01

about what it was "doing

to children's brains".

1:05:011:05:06

The actor and producer Steven Seagal

is the latest Hollywood figure to be

1:05:061:05:10

accused of sexual harassment.

1:05:101:05:12

The actor Portia de Rossi,

who is married to the US talk show

1:05:121:05:15

host Ellen DeGeneres,

made the allegation in a tweet.

1:05:151:05:19

She claims that during a film

audition Mr Seagal told her "how

1:05:191:05:22

important it was to have chemistry

off-screen" before

1:05:221:05:24

unzipping his trousers.

1:05:241:05:27

Mr Seagal's manager told the BBC

that the actor had no comment.

1:05:271:05:31

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30am.

1:05:311:05:38

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

1:05:381:05:41

use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE.

1:05:411:05:42

If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

1:05:421:05:45

Let's get the sport now with Damian.

1:05:451:05:53

Northern Ireland face an uphill test

to qualify for their first World Cup

1:05:531:05:57

since 1986 after a controversial

first leg play-off defeat to

1:05:571:06:01

Switzerland in Belfast. Northern

Ireland's Cory Evans was harshly

1:06:011:06:04

adjudged to have handled in the air,

the ball appeared to have struck him

1:06:041:06:08

on the bag or solder, but the

referee awarded a penalty and the

1:06:081:06:12

only goal of the game was scored

from the spot. The decision outraged

1:06:121:06:16

the Northern Ireland manager.

I thought he had given possibly an

1:06:161:06:21

offside or something, initially I

wasn't sure because, having hit Cory

1:06:211:06:25

, the ball did not go out for a

corner, you expect a corner, a

1:06:251:06:29

penalty in that situation, and to

book the player as well... I spent

1:06:291:06:35

three hours in a conference the

other week with Fifa on assisted

1:06:351:06:42

video refereeing and certainly when

you see what happened in IQ would be

1:06:421:06:45

an advocate of it.

1:06:451:06:51

Both England and Germany players

will wear black armbands

1:06:511:06:53

with poppies in remembrance

of fallen servicemen and women.

1:06:531:06:55

Fifa had previoiusly banned sporting

them and the home nations were fined

1:06:551:06:58

for doing so in November last year.

1:06:581:07:00

Fifa's argument had been

that it was a political gesture

1:07:001:07:02

but have now changed the rules

and allowed the wearing of poppies

1:07:021:07:05

if both teams are in agreement.

1:07:051:07:07

They will also be using video

assistant referee technology.

1:07:071:07:09

This is technology to

help the referee review

1:07:091:07:11

incidents like goals,

red cards, penalties.

1:07:111:07:19

It's Day Two of the one-off

Women's Ashes Test

1:07:191:07:21

match between England

and Australia in Sydney.

1:07:211:07:22

It's a must-win match for England,

because victory for Australia

1:07:221:07:25

will see them go 8-2 up

in the multi-format series,

1:07:251:07:27

and that will be enough to see

them regain the urn.

1:07:271:07:30

England's first innings came

to a close this morning for 280.

1:07:301:07:33

And the bowlers have made inroads,

with Sophie Ecclestone

1:07:331:07:35

doing the damage -

she took the wicket

1:07:351:07:37

of Beth Mooney first.

1:07:371:07:38

And then claimed the wicket

of Alex Blackwell to put

1:07:381:07:41

England in a good position.

1:07:411:07:45

They're currently 159-4.

1:07:451:07:48

Olympian Jess Varnish is suing UK

Sport and British Cycling.

1:07:481:07:51

A source close to the sprinter has

told BBC Sport her legal action

1:07:511:07:55

is based on claims she suffered sex

discrimination, detriment

1:07:551:07:58

for whistleblowing, victimisation

and unfair dismissal.

1:07:581:08:01

Varnish was dropped

from British Cycling's elite

1:08:011:08:03

programme last year,

after which former technical

1:08:031:08:05

director Shane Sutton

was found to have used sexist

1:08:051:08:07

language towards her.

1:08:071:08:12

Sutton resigned but was

later cleared of eight

1:08:121:08:15

out of nine allegations.

1:08:151:08:18

That is all the sport for now.

1:08:181:08:20

A decision in the appeal

of a landmark case is due this

1:08:201:08:23

morning which could have

implications for more

1:08:231:08:25

than a million workers.

1:08:251:08:30

The cab-hailing company Uber

appealed against a ruling that

1:08:301:08:37

says its drivers are workers

entitled to a range of benefits,

1:08:371:08:41

including paid holidays

and the national minimum wage,

1:08:411:08:42

rather than self-employed.

1:08:421:08:44

The case was originally brought

to an employment tribunal by two

1:08:441:08:46

of its drivers last year.

1:08:461:08:48

It has implications for more

than a million people employed

1:08:481:08:54

in the so-called 'gig economy'.

1:08:541:08:57

Uber maintains its drivers

are independent contractors,

1:08:571:08:59

and that the overwhelming majority

want to keep the freedom

1:08:591:09:02

of being their own boss.

1:09:021:09:03

We first broke the news of a group

of Uber drivers intention to take

1:09:031:09:06

the company to court back in 2015.

1:09:061:09:08

Here's a clip from Jim Reed's

original report, where he spoke

1:09:081:09:11

to James Farrar, one of the drivers

who brought the case,

1:09:111:09:14

and to one of Uber's bosses.

1:09:141:09:19

My average net in July

was three or five per hour,

1:09:191:09:22

well below minimum wage.

1:09:221:09:23

If you want to cover your costs

and keep the family afloat,

1:09:231:09:26

you have to work a lot of hours.

1:09:261:09:28

But at the end of the day

it is your choice?

1:09:281:09:36

You can work for someone

else, get another job?

1:09:361:09:46

Yes, it's true, but Uber has

come so aggressively

1:09:531:09:55

into the marketplace,

I think those opportunities

1:09:551:09:56

to work for other operators

are rapidly evaporating.

1:09:561:09:58

James and the other drivers involved

in the legal action say that the way

1:09:581:10:02

that Uber operates means

they are not really self-employed

1:10:021:10:04

entrepreneurs at all,

but working for the company

1:10:041:10:06

so they should get the rights

that go with that.

1:10:061:10:08

Flexibility.

1:10:081:10:09

Flexibility.

1:10:091:10:10

Flexibility.

1:10:101:10:11

Being able to log on and

log off as I please.

1:10:111:10:14

You can choose the hours.

1:10:141:10:15

It is only a small number taking

legal action and there are many

1:10:151:10:19

happy Uber drivers, as the company

points out in its marketing.

1:10:191:10:22

You can work whenever you want.

1:10:221:10:23

Money is going directly

into my account.

1:10:231:10:25

At Uber's new headquarters

in a skyscraper in London,

1:10:251:10:27

the boss says the new way of working

is all about choice.

1:10:271:10:30

Many of our drivers have moved

from traditional jobs

1:10:301:10:32

where they are required to work

prescribed shifts and a certain

1:10:321:10:34

number of hours per week.

1:10:341:10:36

It was difficult to take time off.

1:10:361:10:37

They have chosen to work with Uber

because of that flexibility.

1:10:371:10:40

The fact that you can work

literally whenever you want,

1:10:401:10:42

that is the flexibility

that the majority of Uber

1:10:421:10:44

drivers are looking for.

1:10:441:10:46

Can't you have flexibility

and have rights like holiday

1:10:461:10:48

pay and minimum wage?

1:10:481:10:50

Looking at what drivers

take home is something

1:10:501:10:52

we look at very carefully.

1:10:521:10:53

What we find is that most

of the drivers using the app take

1:10:531:10:56

home round about £15

or £16 per hour.

1:10:561:11:06

Their costs range considerably

if they rent or if they own,

1:11:071:11:11

as well as other factors.

1:11:111:11:13

The majority of them are actually

making around £10-£12 per hour.

1:11:131:11:15

Even after those costs.

1:11:151:11:16

Is there a danger here that

Uber as a company wants

1:11:161:11:19

to have its cake and eat it?

1:11:191:11:21

You want to treat these drivers

as self-employed entrepreneurs

1:11:211:11:23

but on the other hand

you want to tell them

1:11:231:11:25

exactly what to do?

1:11:251:11:26

Uber drivers are completely free

to work whenever and wherever

1:11:261:11:29

they want, so long as they live up

to the quality standards

1:11:291:11:32

on the platform.

1:11:321:11:32

Earlier I spoke to James Farrar,

the Uber driver who brought

1:11:321:11:36

the drivers' rights

case against the firm.

1:11:361:11:40

Olivia Dobbie,

a barrister and employment law

1:11:401:11:45

specialist.

1:11:451:11:53

And Emma, who drives for Uber

and thinks the drivers should not be

1:11:531:11:56

receiving employee benefits.

1:11:561:11:57

James, you won the tribunal

last year, how worried

1:11:571:11:59

are you about the outcome

of this appeal?

1:11:591:12:01

Well, I am naturally

concerned and anxious

1:12:011:12:03

to hear what happens today.

1:12:031:12:04

But in general, I am optimistic.

1:12:041:12:05

I think the law is on our side

and that justice is on our side.

1:12:051:12:09

You have to be a little bit mad

to take on a $70 billion corporation

1:12:091:12:12

and we're very lucky

to have the backing of our union,

1:12:121:12:15

the IWGP, to do that.

1:12:151:12:16

I think we're going to win,

but we are against it.

1:12:161:12:20

We're up against an army

of lawyers and PR consultants,

1:12:201:12:22

an army of lobbyists,

but I think we will prevail

1:12:221:12:24

because the law is on our side.

1:12:241:12:26

You're one of two drivers

who decided to take this

1:12:261:12:28

action in the first place,

taking on a company worth

1:12:281:12:34

more than $60 billion -

how confident were you at the time?

1:12:341:12:37

The decision to take

them on was over more

1:12:371:12:39

direct matters at hand.

1:12:391:12:40

Two things, really.

1:12:401:12:49

Earnings - if you do

the numbers for a second,

1:12:491:12:51

Uber say that the top

drivers, the top drivers,

1:12:511:12:53

and they published this,

earn £18 per hour.

1:12:531:12:55

If you break that down after

commission, it is 13.50 per hour.

1:12:551:12:58

Every hour I work, Uber earns

4.50, no matter what.

1:12:581:13:02

But, for me, that level of earnings

comes out to £650 per week.

1:13:021:13:12

I always have £400 a week to cover -

200-250 per week for the vehicle

1:13:131:13:20

and insurance, and 200-250 for fuel.

1:13:201:13:22

That leaves you earning

about £5 per hour.

1:13:221:13:24

What difference would it make

if you were considered an employee

1:13:241:13:26

instead of self-employed?

1:13:261:13:27

I am self-employed.

1:13:271:13:28

The case is not

becoming an employee.

1:13:281:13:30

It's about being a self-employed

worker with special protections.

1:13:301:13:32

To earn at least the minimum wage

and to have holiday pay.

1:13:321:13:35

That's the key

distinction, isn't it?

1:13:351:13:43

If you're an employee you get

workers' rights like sick pay,

1:13:431:13:46

holiday pay and the minimum wage.

1:13:461:13:47

Emma, I want to bring you in.

1:13:471:13:54

You're an Uber driver -

do you not want to be

1:13:541:13:57

paid minimum wage?

1:13:571:13:58

Get sick pay and holiday pay?

1:13:581:13:59

I earn more than minimum wage.

1:13:591:14:01

I do earn about £18 per hour

after they take commission.

1:14:011:14:08

It is a pot luck thing,

what jobs you get,

1:14:081:14:10

but I kind of quite like that.

1:14:101:14:12

Sometimes you get loads of little

jobs and sometimes bigger jobs.

1:14:121:14:14

I'm not really sure.

1:14:141:14:17

I agree with so much of what James

says, however I am quite happy

1:14:171:14:21

to be self-employed.

1:14:211:14:25

I pay £2 per week to have

sickness benefits with

1:14:251:14:35

a partner of Uber's, IPSE.

1:14:351:14:45

I don't know what the advantage

is with minimum wage.

1:14:491:14:52

I don't really understand,

to be honest.

1:14:521:14:58

Olivia, what could this appeal

be relevant to the gig

1:14:581:15:01

economy, not just for Uber?

1:15:011:15:02

Some confusion has come

across in this panel

1:15:021:15:04

even if I may say so.

1:15:041:15:05

It is the distinction in law

between a self-employed contractor,

1:15:051:15:08

and employee, at one end

of the spectrum, and this

1:15:081:15:10

intermediate category

of what we call a worker.

1:15:101:15:12

The Uber decision that came out last

year did not find that Uber

1:15:121:15:15

drivers are employees.

1:15:151:15:16

It was quite a striking finding.

1:15:161:15:18

It simply found that the workers

which is an intermediate category

1:15:181:15:20

which means they are entitled

to basic minimum floor

1:15:201:15:23

of employee protection rights.

1:15:231:15:23

Those rights include the right

to paid holiday, minimum rest breaks

1:15:231:15:26

and national minimum wage.

1:15:261:15:27

How is that different

to an employee?

1:15:271:15:29

An employee has a higher

level of protection.

1:15:291:15:31

Unfair dismissal, protection against

redundancy and other rights as well.

1:15:311:15:33

If I can describe it as a spectrum,

you have got a self-employed

1:15:331:15:37

contracter at one end,

entirely running their own business.

1:15:371:15:40

You have got the employees

at the other end who benefit

1:15:401:15:42

from the full protection of rights,

and workers in the middle

1:15:421:15:45

who have a sort of minimum bundle

of rights which includes minimum

1:15:451:15:48

wage and paid time off for holiday.

1:15:481:15:49

The decision last year did not mean

that Uber drivers were entitled

1:15:491:15:52

to protection for unfair dismissal

or redundancy pay.

1:15:521:15:54

It equally does not mean that Uber

can control them day-to-day.

1:15:541:15:58

As workers, they still retain a high

degree of flexibility to reject

1:15:581:16:03

work, not log on to the app

if they don't want to,

1:16:031:16:06

but, when they do, the time

that they spent at work,

1:16:061:16:11

they will be accruing pay

for holiday, which they can

1:16:111:16:13

take at a later date.

1:16:131:16:15

I think confusion has arisen

about the implication

1:16:151:16:21

of the decisions last year

and what they actually are.

1:16:211:16:23

The appeal was held at the back end

of September and the decision

1:16:231:16:26

is coming out this morning.

1:16:261:16:27

That was Uber challenging the

findings that drivers are workers.

1:16:271:16:30

Why?

1:16:301:16:31

There is a cost for Uber.

1:16:311:16:37

If they have to pay holiday pay,

that is going to increase the costs

1:16:371:16:40

of what they have to pay drivers.

1:16:401:16:44

There will be a physical cost

in monetary terms but also

1:16:441:16:47

an administrative cost trying

to work out what holiday to pay each

1:16:471:16:50

worker and then to pay that holiday.

1:16:501:16:52

There is a clear business reason why

they would not want to do that.

1:16:521:16:55

I can only think that

is the prime reason.

1:16:551:16:57

I understand that Uber has

suggested that a majority

1:16:571:17:00

if not all of their drivers get

minimum wage anyway.

1:17:001:17:02

I don't know how accurate

that is because I have

1:17:021:17:04

not looked at the data.

1:17:041:17:06

But I understand that some

people challenge that.

1:17:061:17:08

If that is the case then

additional cost is required

1:17:081:17:10

to guarantee minimum wage.

1:17:101:17:21

Which way do you think

the appeal will go?

1:17:211:17:23

I would be surprised

if Uber were successful.

1:17:231:17:25

I say that because there seems to be

a trend of cases coming

1:17:251:17:28

through at the moment with similar

scenarios where workers

1:17:281:17:34

in the gig economy, couriers,

drivers and delivery people,

1:17:341:17:37

for example, are being recognised

as having a basic minimum floor

1:17:371:17:39

of employment rights.

1:17:391:17:40

Being workers in law.

1:17:401:17:41

I would be quite surprised

if Uber succeed.

1:17:411:17:43

If they failed, what will

the implications be for other

1:17:431:17:46

workers working in the gig economy?

1:17:461:17:52

Any legal decision is

about the people that

1:17:521:17:54

brought the decision.

1:17:541:17:55

It is going to be exclusive

to the claimants in that case.

1:17:551:17:59

It will have a wider

political impact, perhaps,

1:17:591:18:02

we might get other companies

recognising that the way

1:18:021:18:05

that they run the platform

is similar to what we have in Uber

1:18:051:18:09

so they might start to choose

to give their workers,

1:18:091:18:15

identifying them as workers

and giving them employment

1:18:151:18:17

protection rights.

1:18:171:18:18

It is ultimately only about those

that brought the case

1:18:181:18:21

and the decision is

only binding on those.

1:18:211:18:23

Emma, we have some

context from Olivia.

1:18:231:18:26

If, as Olivia says, you can

still choose when you work

1:18:261:18:28

and which jobs to accept

but you also get the benefits

1:18:281:18:31

of things like sick pay

and a guarantee for your wages,

1:18:311:18:34

what is the harm in that?

1:18:341:18:38

I think I would be tied in more.

1:18:381:18:43

There are other platforms out there,

other companies that you can work

1:18:431:18:48

for where you can get some regular

routine, know what you are getting.

1:18:481:18:51

That is not what I

signed up to Uber for.

1:18:511:18:55

I understood what I was signing for.

1:18:551:18:59

It was attractive to me

because I did not know

1:18:591:19:01

where I was going when I picked

up a passenger.

1:19:011:19:06

It was quite an adventure.

1:19:061:19:10

I like people, I like driving.

1:19:101:19:11

I am not sure of the advantages.

1:19:111:19:13

I am not really understanding

what those are.

1:19:131:19:22

Even with this whole

wonderful explanation,

1:19:221:19:25

I just feel that I would be tied

in more and the impact of greater

1:19:251:19:28

administration costs

is going to, I feel,

1:19:281:19:32

come back on us, or the passengers

at some point, somehow.

1:19:321:19:35

James, can you understand

how Emma feels?

1:19:351:19:37

I can.

1:19:371:19:40

But let me tell you

a different story.

1:19:401:19:48

One of the co-claimants,

a good friend of mine,

1:19:481:19:50

involved in this case,

has a child who is very sick and is

1:19:501:19:53

in Great Ormond Street Hospital.

1:19:531:19:54

The family is almost

residential there.

1:19:541:19:55

This is during the child's illness.

1:19:551:19:57

He has to make the payments

on his vehicle every week

1:19:571:20:00

whether he is working or not.

1:20:001:20:01

For him to have paid holidays,

for him to be guaranteed the minimum

1:20:011:20:04

wage when he does work,

would mean so much for that family

1:20:041:20:07

in terms of social security

and security for that family.

1:20:071:20:09

I can understand that Emma might not

want these rights but other people

1:20:091:20:13

desperately need them.

1:20:131:20:14

What about the impact on prices?

1:20:141:20:18

When you talk about the business

model, if Uber is going to have

1:20:181:20:24

to pay more to cover those extra

things, it probably would

1:20:241:20:27

have the knock-on effect

of driving up the costs

1:20:271:20:29

and prices for customers?

1:20:291:20:33

I think that is likely.

1:20:331:20:38

I do not know how they will manage

to subsume the cost

1:20:381:20:41

in the business model.

1:20:411:20:42

It may be that they take slightly

less profit in order to cover

1:20:421:20:45

the costs themselves.

1:20:451:20:46

I anticipate there will have

to be an increase in

1:20:461:20:48

price for the customer.

1:20:481:20:52

In reality, some

analysis has been done.

1:20:521:20:57

At present fares the customer

is only paying about

1:20:571:20:59

60% of the true cost.

1:20:591:21:00

The reality is that there has been

a lot of venture capital money put

1:21:001:21:04

into this for companies like Uber

to literally acquire the market,

1:21:041:21:06

through referral bonuses and so on.

1:21:061:21:08

The fares are unrealistically

low at the moment.

1:21:081:21:16

If you are used to paying a fiver

to get from A to B they are not

1:21:161:21:21

going to want to pay more.

1:21:211:21:22

That is true.

1:21:221:21:23

The problem is that the bus

ridership is at the lowest it has

1:21:231:21:26

been in London for ten years.

1:21:261:21:27

We are pulling people off the public

transportation system.

1:21:271:21:30

Congestion is up.

1:21:301:21:31

Air quality is the worst

it has been in London.

1:21:311:21:33

We can't run a public transportation

system...

1:21:331:21:35

Do you think the public

would be willing to pay more

1:21:351:21:38

if they knew it meant

better rights for workers?

1:21:381:21:40

I am certain they would.

1:21:401:21:43

Where to begin.

1:21:431:21:46

There is a reason why

the buses are empty.

1:21:461:21:48

Woman, contrary to the aggressive

attacks by London cabs

1:21:481:21:50

at the moment against Uber,

women feel safer in Ubers.

1:21:501:21:53

Not on public transport.

1:21:531:21:57

There is no protection for some

public transport.

1:21:571:21:59

You can get assaulted

on buses and trains.

1:21:591:22:02

TfL are not addressing that.

1:22:021:22:05

That is in your opinion because we

cannot speak for all women.

1:22:051:22:08

Listening to a lot of women,

talking to a lot of women,

1:22:081:22:11

I have lots of passengers talking

to me about it.

1:22:111:22:13

I feel very strongly about it.

1:22:131:22:23

I have been supported

through all my work at Grenfell over

1:22:241:22:27

the last five and a half months.

1:22:271:22:28

I look to self-employment

and being supported by Uber

1:22:281:22:31

which they have done amazingly

as well as you telling the story,

1:22:311:22:36

I am sorry to hear about that driver

with the children in Great

1:22:361:22:39

Ormond Street Hospital.

1:22:391:22:40

We are all working

against something.

1:22:401:22:42

I haven't found fault with Uber

in the support they have given me.

1:22:421:22:45

And the car company

that I rent from.

1:22:451:22:47

Thank you very much indeed.

1:22:471:22:50

Still to come...

1:22:501:22:55

Would you send Facebook your naked

photographs if it meant they could

1:22:551:22:58

be blocked from being uploaded as

revenge pawn? We're looking at a

1:22:581:23:05

pilot in Australia.

1:23:051:23:08

He thought he was being fast-tracked

to a career as a Chief Constable,

1:23:081:23:11

but instead, Mark Dias,

an Asian officer working

1:23:111:23:13

for Cleveland Police

was systematically bullied

1:23:131:23:14

by the force.

1:23:141:23:15

This week, he was awarded

half-a-million pounds

1:23:151:23:17

in compensation, after his own

colleagues spied on him

1:23:171:23:19

and eventually tried to bring

criminal charges against him.

1:23:191:23:21

Why?

1:23:211:23:23

Because he blew the whistle

on what he believed we elements

1:23:231:23:25

of institutionalized racism

within the force.

1:23:251:23:27

Earlier I spoke to Mark

and asked him what happened

1:23:271:23:30

when he was in the force.

1:23:301:23:37

We started to see certain sets

of conduct around Asian officers,

1:23:371:23:40

specifically it was emanating

from the professional

1:23:401:23:42

standards department.

1:23:421:23:45

What was happening was if officers

complained about racial

1:23:451:23:50

discrimination, all of a sudden

fabricated investigations

1:23:501:23:52

were being made against them.

1:23:521:23:54

And we complained about that.

1:23:541:24:00

In 2010 I became the enemy, I became

the target of their venom and became

1:24:001:24:04

part of their investigation track,

and I was put under criminal

1:24:041:24:07

investigation for whistle-blowing

about institutional racism.

1:24:071:24:11

You talk about conduct,

you talk about institutional racism,

1:24:111:24:16

without using any offensive terms,

can you give me some concrete

1:24:161:24:18

examples of the type

of behaviour you witnessed?

1:24:181:24:23

Asian officers would be

subject to fabricated

1:24:231:24:29

internal investigations,

conduct investigations and criminal

1:24:291:24:33

investigations by the professional

standards department,

1:24:331:24:36

which was known by the legal

department as well.

1:24:361:24:39

Asian officers would be watched,

they would be put under

1:24:391:24:42

internal surveillance.

1:24:421:24:45

Asian officers would be given jobs

which were impossible to complete.

1:24:451:24:49

Asian officers would be placed

on one shift so that they could be

1:24:491:24:54

watched en masse, rather

than being distributed

1:24:541:24:56

across the district.

1:24:561:25:01

Those are just some examples that

come to mind of the kind of conduct

1:25:011:25:06

that we were experiencing.

1:25:061:25:11

You talk about, Mark, "they".

1:25:111:25:12

What about you?

1:25:121:25:13

I pretty much suffered as well.

1:25:131:25:17

I was given work that was impossible

to do, and impossible not just

1:25:171:25:20

because of my own reference

but because other people were

1:25:201:25:23

telling me it was impossible to do.

1:25:231:25:26

I was placed on a shift

in Middlesbrough with every

1:25:261:25:28

other Asian officer

within the response units.

1:25:281:25:31

What does that mean?

1:25:311:25:33

What did that mean?

1:25:331:25:34

Why was that significant?

1:25:341:25:38

So you had around about five Asian

officers in the Middlesbrough

1:25:381:25:40

district at one time.

1:25:401:25:42

And all of those Asian

officers were put on one

1:25:421:25:45

shift in Middlesbrough

so that they could be watched.

1:25:451:25:50

So you had a situation

where a particular shift had 25%

1:25:501:25:55

constitution of Asian officers,

and no other Asian officer

1:25:551:25:57

was on any other shift

in the Middlesbrough district

1:25:571:26:00

at that time.

1:26:001:26:01

So you're talking about and giving

us examples of how you were treated

1:26:011:26:06

by your superiors, people

in positions of power over you.

1:26:061:26:10

How were you treated

by people on your same level

1:26:101:26:12

or a level below you?

1:26:121:26:15

Oh, with the greatest level

of support, in the main.

1:26:151:26:21

People who worked with me,

people who supported me actually

1:26:211:26:25

were victimised themselves

because of their support, not only

1:26:251:26:28

for me but for other Asian officers.

1:26:281:26:31

In particular the Police Federation,

who supported us in Cleveland,

1:26:311:26:34

were all targeted for unlawful

investigations because of their

1:26:341:26:37

support for Asian officers.

1:26:371:26:39

Given what you've talked about,

the experiences you went through,

1:26:391:26:43

how you say Asian officers

were treated, why did you then

1:26:431:26:46

decide to go public?

1:26:461:26:51

In February 2012 the then-Chief

Constable Jacqui Cheer admitted

1:26:511:26:53

there was institutional racism

in Cleveland Police.

1:26:531:26:58

But in April of that year another

Chief Constable actually stated that

1:26:581:27:01

no racism existed in Cleveland

Police.

1:27:011:27:06

My challenge publicly,

I did this at that time anonymously,

1:27:061:27:08

was to say that that

statement was incorrect.

1:27:081:27:14

You were illegally monitored.

1:27:141:27:19

How did you find out -

what happened?

1:27:191:27:21

We heard that there had been

surveillance, but we had no proof.

1:27:211:27:25

So I conducted an investigation

into Cleveland Police

1:27:251:27:27

from outside the police service.

1:27:271:27:32

Hang on, you say you'd heard

there'd been surveillance.

1:27:321:27:34

That is shocking to hear.

1:27:341:27:36

So you'd heard that, what,

your phone was being tapped?

1:27:361:27:39

We'd heard that there was a lot more

surveillance than just the phone.

1:27:391:27:42

We'd heard that Asian

officers had been put under

1:27:421:27:44

intrusive surveillance.

1:27:441:27:45

Their homes, their cars

and also their telephones.

1:27:451:27:49

It turns out for me

it was just my telephone.

1:27:491:27:54

And we'd heard that information,

so we'd used that and started

1:27:541:27:57

an investigation against Cleveland

Police.

1:27:571:27:59

You...

1:27:591:28:01

I know you can't talk

about the settlement,

1:28:011:28:04

but this has been settled,

nine years after you left.

1:28:041:28:07

How has this affected

you in that time?

1:28:071:28:16

So it's five years since I left...

1:28:161:28:20

Five years since you left.

1:28:201:28:22

It's been consuming,

working and also trying to manage

1:28:221:28:28

an investigation against a police

force, developing litigation that

1:28:281:28:30

you had to be sure was going to be

successful and being able

1:28:301:28:34

to navigate all that process

whilst being excluded

1:28:341:28:35

from the police service.

1:28:351:28:38

But as well it's been very

difficult, it's been very hard,

1:28:381:28:40

but I think now we're in a position

where it was worth it

1:28:401:28:44

and we've actually got

to a point of resolution.

1:28:441:28:46

Do you think the police force has

changed in that time,

1:28:461:28:49

including Cleveland Police?

1:28:491:28:54

I don't think Cleveland Police

is an example of the police service,

1:28:541:28:59

and everywhere that I worked

within the police service

1:28:591:29:01

would say that Cleveland

Police is very unique.

1:29:011:29:03

And it has a legacy of which it has

not been able to evolve from.

1:29:031:29:08

From my view in Cleveland Police,

there is a lot of talk about change,

1:29:081:29:11

but fundamentally the wrongdoers,

those people identified

1:29:111:29:14

of wrongdoing in Cleveland Police,

have not been dealt with.

1:29:141:29:16

And that's still the same today.

1:29:161:29:24

Chief Constable Iain Spittal

says what happened to

1:29:241:29:26

you up to 2013 doesn't

reflect the positive

1:29:261:29:28

and professional organisational

behaviours of 2017.

1:29:281:29:30

He's also said that Cleveland Police

has moved forward significantly.

1:29:301:29:32

So you're saying you

disagree with that?

1:29:321:29:34

I can only talk...

1:29:341:29:38

I'm not in Cleveland Police today,

so I can talk about what I can see,

1:29:381:29:41

and I can see that those people

who have done wrong,

1:29:411:29:44

those people who should be

investigated, have not been

1:29:441:29:46

investigated or dealt with.

1:29:461:29:48

What would your message

be to them now?

1:29:481:29:53

I think those people need to be

aware that this process are dealing

1:29:531:29:57

I think those people need to be

aware that this process of dealing

1:29:571:30:00

with those wrongdoers is not over

with, and we will continue

1:30:001:30:02

until we get justice.

1:30:021:30:04

Chief Constable Iain Spittal

sent us a statement.

1:30:041:30:06

He said...

1:30:061:30:08

"The matters settled

with Mr Dias relate to things

1:30:131:30:16

which occurred up to January 2013.

1:30:161:30:17

They are not reflective

of the positive and professional

1:30:171:30:19

organisational behaviours present

in the Force today.

1:30:191:30:21

Cleveland Police has moved forwards

significantly.Along with the PCC,

1:30:211:30:23

I have led a programme of work

called Everyone Matters.

1:30:231:30:25

People tell me from within

and outside the organisation

1:30:251:30:28

that this is having a strong

and long-lasting impact.

1:30:281:30:31

Over the years that I have worked

with Cleveland Police,

1:30:311:30:35

I have seen more officers achieve

promotion and advancement

1:30:351:30:41

from under-represented groups.

1:30:411:30:43

Still to come...

1:30:471:30:48

A 14-year-old boy who sent a naked

picture of himself to a girl

1:30:481:30:51

at school has been put on a police

database for the crime

1:30:511:30:54

of making and distributing

indecent images of a child.

1:30:541:30:56

We'll look at the legal challenge

to get this record deleted.

1:30:561:31:03

Saturn and Spanghero's memoir, The

Top, is about to hit our screens, we

1:31:031:31:09

will speak to the actor playing the

lead role.

1:31:091:31:16

Time for the latest news -

here's Rachel Schofield.

1:31:161:31:18

The headlines from BBC News...

1:31:181:31:19

Theresa May has warned pro-EU

Conservatives that she will not

1:31:191:31:21

tolerate any attempts to block

the Brexit process.

1:31:211:31:23

In a sign of her intent,

she's outlined plans to enshrine

1:31:231:31:27

in law the exact moment that Britain

will leave the European Union -

1:31:271:31:30

11pm on 29th March, 2019.

1:31:301:31:35

But the man responsible for writing

the Article 50 withdrawal process,

1:31:351:31:43

cross-bench peer Lord Kerr,

says Brexit could still be reversed.

1:31:431:31:47

A new study is recommending that

women who have had the HPV vaccine

1:31:471:31:51

only need to have three smear tests

during their life, rather than

1:31:511:31:55

the 12 they're currently offered.

1:31:551:32:00

The vaccine, which helps prevent

against cervical cancer,

1:32:001:32:06

has been given to girls aged 11

to 13 since 2008.

1:32:061:32:14

The study, funded by Cancer Research

UK, comes ahead of proposed changed

1:32:141:32:17

to the NHS cervical cancer screening

programme due to come in 2019.

1:32:171:32:19

Cancer Research UK's Nicola Smith

told this programme why some

1:32:191:32:22

screening is still important.

1:32:221:32:24

The HPV vaccine only protects about

70% of infections with HBV says that

1:32:241:32:29

is why it is important that these

girls still have some smears,

1:32:291:32:32

because there is still a chance that

they will get the other HPV types we

1:32:321:32:37

are not protecting against.

1:32:371:32:39

Donald Trump has told Asia

and Pacific leaders America will no

1:32:391:32:42

longer tolerate what he calls

chronic trade abuses.

1:32:421:32:44

The US President is in Vietnam

at the Asia-Pacific Economic

1:32:441:32:46

Co-operation summit.

1:32:461:32:56

During a hard-hitting speech,

he said America was prepared to work

1:32:571:33:00

with countries in the region,

provided they abide

1:33:001:33:02

by what he called "fair

and reciprocal trade".

1:33:021:33:04

Facebook's founding president has

said he's worried about the effect

1:33:041:33:06

the site is having on society.

1:33:061:33:13

Sean Parker, who says he no

longer uses social media,

1:33:131:33:15

said the network was built

on "exploiting a vulnerability

1:33:151:33:17

in human psychology",

and he was concerned

1:33:171:33:19

about what it was "doing

to children's brains".

1:33:191:33:27

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:33:271:33:29

Let's get the sport now with Damian.

1:33:291:33:35

Northern Ireland's Cory Evans says

it was a disgrace to award a

1:33:351:33:38

handball against which led to

Northern Ireland's defeat in their

1:33:381:33:40

World Cup play-off to Switzerland.

He was adjudged to have handled in

1:33:401:33:47

the area and Ricardo Rodriguez gave

the Swiss a precious lead to take

1:33:471:33:51

into Sunday's second leg.

1:33:511:33:54

The players of both England

and Germany will wear black armbands

1:33:541:33:56

with poppies for tonight's friendly

at Wembley in remebrance of fallen

1:33:561:33:59

servicemen and women,

after Fifa agreed to change

1:33:591:34:01

to its rules.

1:34:011:34:08

England's women have taken a fifth

wicket as they try to bowl out

1:34:081:34:11

the Australians on day two

of the one-off Ashes Test in Sydney.

1:34:111:34:14

It's a must-win game for England

and they're currently going well

1:34:141:34:16

in the final session of the day.

1:34:161:34:18

And Olympian Jess Varnish is suing

UK Sport and British Cycling.

1:34:181:34:21

A source close to the sprinter has

told BBC Sport her legal action

1:34:211:34:24

is based on claims she suffered sex

discrimination, detriment

1:34:241:34:26

for whistleblowing, victimisation

and unfair dismissal.

1:34:261:34:29

That is all Gosport Borough now. --

all the sport for now.

1:34:291:34:36

When a 14-year-old boy sent

a naked picture of himself

1:34:361:34:39

to a girl at school,

he wasn't charged by

1:34:391:34:41

Greater Manchester Police,

but they put his name on the police

1:34:411:34:43

intelligence database alongside

the crime of making and distributing

1:34:431:34:46

indecent images of a child.

1:34:461:34:47

It will stay on file for 10 years

unless the High Court rules,

1:34:471:34:50

in a case being heard today,

that it should be deleted.

1:34:501:34:52

Let's get more from our home affairs

correspondent Danny Shaw.

1:34:521:34:57

Good morning to you, what more can

you tell us?

1:34:571:35:00

This is an important case that will

resonate with a lot of people who

1:35:001:35:04

have issues perhaps about their

teenagers so-called sexting people.

1:35:041:35:09

This 14-year-old boy sent this image

on Snapchat thinking it would be

1:35:091:35:13

automatically deleted, it wasn't, it

was saved by the girl he sent it to,

1:35:131:35:18

she then shared it with other

people. The police got involved,

1:35:181:35:22

they didn't charge or prosecute him

but they did put it on their

1:35:221:35:26

intelligence database and it is

recorded under a section called

1:35:261:35:29

obscene publications and it has his

name on there, and the concern of

1:35:291:35:34

the boy's mother is that, should he

go for a job for example working

1:35:341:35:37

with children as a teacher or

working with vulnerable adults, the

1:35:371:35:41

police may have to disclose that to

a future employer which could in

1:35:411:35:44

effect bar him from getting work.

She wants these details about him

1:35:441:35:50

removed from the database. Greater

Manchester Police has refused to do

1:35:501:35:54

so, our understanding is it could be

kept until he is 100 years old, not

1:35:541:35:58

just ten years but effectively in

perpetuity so she is extremely

1:35:581:36:02

concerned and is taking the case

this morning to the High Court at

1:36:021:36:06

Manchester to try and argue that

Greater Manchester Police's decision

1:36:061:36:10

needs to be reversed. Their argument

is, as far as I understand it, that

1:36:101:36:15

they are entitled to keep it on the

database and any decision they make

1:36:151:36:20

about disclosing it in the future

will be very carefully balanced

1:36:201:36:23

looking at the risks the individual

post as against the risks to him of

1:36:231:36:29

disclosure.

OK, thank you very much indeed.

1:36:291:36:32

We have some breaking news to bring

you. The taxi firm Uber has lost its

1:36:321:36:39

appeal against a ruling on the

employment rights of drivers. We

1:36:391:36:45

were speaking earlier to one of the

drivers who was involved in the

1:36:451:36:52

case, James Farra, who won his

tribunal, Uber appealed the decision

1:36:521:36:56

and we have heard that they have

lost the appeal against the ruling

1:36:561:37:02

to do with the rights of drivers. We

should be able to speak to Simon

1:37:021:37:07

Gompers at the High Court later who

will be able to tell us more about

1:37:071:37:10

what has happened and what it could

mean not only for Bluebird drivers

1:37:101:37:14

but for the gig economy in general.

-- not only for Uber drivers.

1:37:141:37:22

A new scheme to try an combat

so called revenge porn

1:37:221:37:25

is being trialled in Australia.

1:37:251:37:26

It would mean humans,

rather than computer algorithms,

1:37:261:37:28

viewing naked images that

are voluntarily sent to Facebook.

1:37:281:37:34

The photograph would then

have its "fingerprint" taken so it

1:37:341:37:37

couldn't be uploaded again

by disgruntled ex-lovers.

1:37:371:37:46

Facebook said in a statement one

of the hopes for this pilot

1:37:461:37:49

is to test an emergency option

for people to provide a photo

1:37:491:37:52

proactively to Facebook,

so it never gets shared

1:37:521:37:54

in the first place.

1:37:541:37:55

"It's a protective measure that can

help prevent a much worse

1:37:551:37:57

scenario where an image

is shared more widely.

1:37:571:37:59

We don't want Facebook to be a place

where people fear their intimate

1:37:591:38:02

images will be shared

without their consent."

1:38:021:38:09

Let's talk to Laura Higgins

who runs a helpline

1:38:091:38:11

for victims of revenge porn.

1:38:111:38:15

And also to Fevzi Turkalp,

who is a social media expert.

1:38:151:38:21

He also does weekly podcasts. Thank

you both for joining us. Laura, what

1:38:211:38:27

is your response to this pilot

scheme in Australia?

We think it is

1:38:271:38:34

a fantastic initiative, anything

that gives a bit of control back to

1:38:341:38:37

victims, where they can take

proactive measures to try and tackle

1:38:371:38:40

it, is a positive thing.

You say it

is positive but this involves people

1:38:401:38:46

who have nude photographs, if it was

you, a nude photograph, you would

1:38:461:38:50

then send it pre-emptively to

Facebook, for example, another human

1:38:501:38:54

being who you don't know would look

at the photograph and, I suppose,

1:38:541:38:58

give it a fingerprint which means

that it can't then be shared

1:38:581:39:03

publicly after that, that is my

understanding?

Yes, they already

1:39:031:39:07

have a database of hashed images

where organisations like mine have

1:39:071:39:13

supported people, we have given them

the image, said this is already

1:39:131:39:16

happening to prevent it being

reuploaded. This is just trying to

1:39:161:39:20

prevent it being uploaded in the

first place. I know people have an

1:39:201:39:24

issue about having a human involved

but there are no technical solutions

1:39:241:39:27

that can take that out, there needs

to be somebody in that position, but

1:39:271:39:33

they are specially trained, working

with our organisations to make sure

1:39:331:39:36

it is as safe as possible.

Is that

1:39:361:39:48

the best way to deal with this

problem? It is a brand-new project,

1:39:561:39:58

it has never been done before.

Certainly it puts them steps ahead

1:39:581:40:01

of other social networks are

currently don't have anything, so I

1:40:011:40:03

think anything we do as a step

forward is positive. Obviously it

1:40:031:40:05

remains to be seen how positive it

is with people in the pilot. Fevzi,

1:40:051:40:08

do you think, if this does come in,

it is likely people will take up

1:40:081:40:11

Facebook on this other?

I think some

well but I doubt very many would do

1:40:111:40:14

that because it will involve a

degree of trust, human being looking

1:40:141:40:17

at the image, you will have to trust

that no-one misbehaves and stores

1:40:171:40:19

those themselves. But even if they

do, if they do do it, there is the

1:40:191:40:22

issue of how effective this will be.

They use a lot of intelligent

1:40:221:40:25

software to scan the image and

produce a digital fingerprint of the

1:40:251:40:28

image which means nothing matching

the fingerprint should be able to be

1:40:281:40:32

uploaded but the problem with that

if there are a myriad ways of

1:40:321:40:35

altering images so that it could

trick, at the moment, even the best

1:40:351:40:41

artificial intelligence programmes.

We see examples of that with

1:40:411:40:44

YouTube, where they try to prevent

copyrighted material from being

1:40:441:40:50

uploaded and you see all sorts of

tricks on videos from YouTube to try

1:40:501:40:53

to make it look like a different

video, even though a human being

1:40:531:40:56

will see it as being the same.

So

what you are saying is people who

1:40:561:41:01

have the same photograph could tweak

it slightly and potentially would be

1:41:011:41:05

able to post the same photograph,

virtually, online anyway?

Yes, it

1:41:051:41:11

depends on how smart the artificial

intelligence software is, but at the

1:41:111:41:16

moment it is possible to call any

artificial intelligence. It makes it

1:41:161:41:19

a bit harder, but I think that,

combined with the fact that people

1:41:191:41:23

who are worried would have to have

those images in their position

1:41:231:41:27

already, which they won't always do,

and then be willing to take the risk

1:41:271:41:32

of forwarding it to Facebook and all

others on the risk that, because a

1:41:321:41:39

relationship has broken down and

they were read, so they have to

1:41:391:41:41

balance this in their mind between

sharing the image themselves and

1:41:411:41:45

hoping it does not get shared by

their ex-partner.

Laura, you run a

1:41:451:41:50

helpline for victims of revenge

porn, how big a problem is it?

Since

1:41:501:41:54

we launched we have had over 7000

calls to our helpline, it is a

1:41:541:41:59

significant issue and the threat to

post images can be just as

1:41:591:42:02

detrimental as people actually doing

it, so I think this is positive and

1:42:021:42:06

we do welcome it.

Do you think other

platforms will follow if this is

1:42:061:42:09

successful?

I would really like to

see that. This is a brand-new thing,

1:42:091:42:16

quite ground-breaking. Hopefully it

will have some effect, it will be a

1:42:161:42:20

deterrent perhaps for people and

make it harder to upload and

1:42:201:42:23

certainly we would love to see the

technology rolled out much more

1:42:231:42:27

widely.

Fevzi, do you think,

realistically, this could become one

1:42:271:42:31

of the solutions for dealing with

revenge porn?

I think it can become

1:42:311:42:36

part of the solution. Once a digital

fingerprint has been created then it

1:42:361:42:40

should be possible to share

1:42:401:42:51

that social media platform so that

an individual doesn't have to

1:42:561:42:58

register their image with multiple

organisations, perhaps a single

1:42:581:43:00

truly independent organisation

produces the hashes and provided to

1:43:001:43:02

the social media platforms would be

a better solution.

OK, thank you

1:43:021:43:04

both.

1:43:041:43:14

Joe Fox went from being homeless,

1:43:151:43:16

to a fluke meeting with American

rapper A$AP Rocky

1:43:161:43:18

while busking in London.

1:43:181:43:20

He then became Rocky's main

collaborator, featuring five times

1:43:201:43:22

on his latest number one album.

1:43:221:43:23

We caught up with him before

a "Shelter from the Storm"

1:43:231:43:26

gig for the homeless.

1:43:261:43:27

Is this coming well?

1:43:271:43:28

Working-class background, didn't

know my dad, I had one half sister,

1:43:421:43:46

single-parent family. If you are

into music and have no support from

1:43:461:43:58

your family it is hard to pay for it

all. I was in bands but it is beg,

1:43:581:44:02

steal or borrow. I am not a great

criminal so I had to Busk and sell

1:44:021:44:08

CDs and all sorts. London is crazy

expensive to live in so when I met

1:44:081:44:14

Rocky immediately let me stay in his

hotel.

1:44:141:44:29

I'd just tried to connect

with my family, and they

1:44:291:44:31

didn't want to know.

1:44:311:44:32

Yeah, I was lucky to

meet him when I did.

1:44:321:44:34

I didn't know who he was,

I knew the name A$AP.

1:44:341:44:37

I just tried to sell him

a CD, like I was doing

1:44:371:44:40

at the time, you know?

1:44:401:44:41

We went down into the studio.

1:44:411:44:43

The first song I played

it was Listen Up Katie.

1:44:431:44:45

And I played him a song called

Welcome to the Ghetto,

1:44:451:44:48

and Head Down Low and he was just

saying "Are these your songs?

1:44:481:44:51

Are these your songs?"

1:44:511:44:52

And I said, "Yeah,

these are my songs."

1:44:521:44:54

And that was it, really.

1:44:541:45:01

# I want a melody to save this soul.

1:45:011:45:05

# I want a feeling

that I used to know.

1:45:051:45:08

When I was homeless, it was...

1:45:081:45:09

I was never...

1:45:091:45:10

Never knew about places like this.

1:45:101:45:12

But I think it's amazing.

1:45:121:45:14

Sometimes I think that a performer

is only as good as his crowd.

1:45:141:45:17

Hopefully everyone will know

where I'm coming from.

1:45:171:45:19

I just want to play the songs, man.

1:45:191:45:21

I've got a really good band,

I've got an amazing team,

1:45:211:45:24

I love everyone at my label.

1:45:241:45:27

Yeah, I just want to keep

writing songs, you know?

1:45:271:45:29

Thank you.

1:45:291:45:32

APPLAUSE.

1:45:321:45:41

The judgement in the Uber

tribunal has just come in.

1:45:411:45:43

The company has lost their appeal.

1:45:431:45:47

That's against an earlier ruling

that was made last year that

1:45:471:45:51

That's against an earlier ruling

that was made last year that it

1:45:511:45:51

should treat its drivers as workers

rather than self-employed

1:45:511:45:55

independent contractors. Uber has

lost that appeal. They are expected

1:45:551:46:00

to pursue a further appeal, possibly

to the Supreme Court. We will bring

1:46:001:46:04

you more on that story when we have

it.

1:46:041:46:08

Women vaccinated against human

papilloma virus, or HPV,

1:46:081:46:14

which is thought to cause about 99%

of cervical cancers,

1:46:141:46:16

may only need three smear

tests in their lifetime,

1:46:161:46:18

a new study has suggested.

1:46:181:46:20

Since 2008, the HPV vaccine has been

offered to girls aged 11 to 13

1:46:201:46:23

and reported cases have fallen

sharply since then.

1:46:231:46:25

A team from Queen Mary University

of London found that

1:46:251:46:27

screenings at age 30,

40 and 55 would offer the same

1:46:271:46:30

benefit to these young women

as the current 12 screenings.

1:46:301:46:32

The study comes ahead of planned

changes to the screening programme

1:46:321:46:35

in England for 2019,

and similar adjustments

1:46:351:46:37

in Scotland and Wales.

1:46:371:46:47

Earlier we discussed the impact

of HPV and those new proposals.

1:46:471:46:50

Mandy Parker was diagnosed

with cervical cancer in 2015

1:46:501:46:55

after a routine smear test

and she had to have a hysterectomy.

1:46:551:46:58

She told me how she was diagnosed.

1:46:581:47:05

It was through my regular screening,

so I haven't missed one every three

1:47:051:47:09

years. I went in June of 2015. But I

had no symptoms. I went along as

1:47:091:47:15

normal, had the screening and

unfortunate they called me back

1:47:151:47:18

because I had abnormal cells. In

September of 2015I had a radical

1:47:181:47:24

hysterectomy because of early-stage

cervical cancer. I was told if I

1:47:241:47:30

hadn't gone for screening it would

be a totally different story. I am

1:47:301:47:33

here to tell the tale now and it's

so important and it's so great to

1:47:331:47:37

have the new HPV screening, because

that is Exec what caused my cervical

1:47:371:47:41

cancer.

You were approaching the

screening, and it would have been

1:47:411:47:49

another three years otherwise.

Women

lead busy lives and it's so easy to

1:47:491:47:54

put it off. It's so important to

attend on time so they can detect

1:47:541:47:58

early changes. It wasn't as bad as

it could have been.

How do you feel

1:47:581:48:03

about the news today? You have two

teenage daughters.

It's brilliant.

1:48:031:48:07

They have both been vaccinated and

it's been absolutely fine. I would

1:48:071:48:11

encourage everyone to have the HPV

vaccine. That caused my surgical

1:48:111:48:15

cancer. Along with the bank vaccine

and the new screening programme.

1:48:151:48:22

It's excellent.

It stops people

getting cervical cancer in the end,

1:48:221:48:28

that's what we want. It's really

exciting times for cervical cancer

1:48:281:48:33

because we know what causes it, we

can look for it and we are turning

1:48:331:48:36

the programme over so we can look

for that rather than abnormal cells,

1:48:361:48:40

which say better and simpler test.

When will it come in? This is what

1:48:401:48:49

the study has found. When could this

new screening programme kick in?

I

1:48:491:48:55

think the important thing to say is

that this is a model. What

1:48:551:48:58

researchers have done is that if

this happens, and it happens in this

1:48:581:49:03

way, then it would be safe for woman

to have many fewer screens. What the

1:49:031:49:08

programme is doing at the moment is

concentrate on changing from the

1:49:081:49:12

cytology test, looking at cells

under a microscope, to looking for

1:49:121:49:16

the presence of a virus. We'll get

that into place by the end of 2019.

1:49:161:49:23

The other thing to say is that the

girls who have been vaccinated are

1:49:231:49:27

coming up to 21 and 22. We start

screening at 25. We know that

1:49:271:49:33

screening is being taken up by less

women. Generally the rates of people

1:49:331:49:37

taking up screening are declining.

Why do you think that is?

All sorts

1:49:371:49:42

of reasons. Before I go there, I

want to say that I will probably be

1:49:421:49:47

dead by the time the current

25-year-olds are right the way

1:49:471:49:51

through the programme, because it

does not finish until 65. We need to

1:49:511:49:54

be clear that for women who have not

been vaccinated, it's incredibly

1:49:541:49:59

important they get their screening

test.

People need to get their three

1:49:591:50:08

screens in a lifetime. The key thing

is having the HPV vaccine at a young

1:50:081:50:12

age. How long, once you have had

that, and schoolgirls are having the

1:50:121:50:18

HPV vaccine, how long does it last?

A good question, and part of what

1:50:181:50:23

the reason of what Peter has done as

a model, we have been vaccinating,

1:50:231:50:27

and across the world we have been

vaccinating since 2008 or so. The

1:50:271:50:32

evidence is very strong that it

lasts a long time. But we are

1:50:321:50:36

continuing to gather the data to see

if people remain protected.

Nicola,

1:50:361:50:42

do you want to come in before we

come back to the reasons why?

The

1:50:421:50:48

main aim of the surgical screening

programme is prevention rather than

1:50:481:50:51

early diagnosis. It does pick up

some cases of cervical cancer, but a

1:50:511:50:55

lot of women who get abnormal

results, those cell changes are free

1:50:551:51:00

cancer risk, they can be dealt with

so it can be moved in Dublin before

1:51:001:51:07

it can have the chance to develop

into cancer. When a lot of women go

1:51:071:51:14

through the smear process, they will

be fine. Hopefully it can be dealt

1:51:141:51:17

with before it turns into cancer.

Could we in theory get to a stage

1:51:171:51:22

where you really do minimise cases

of serious cervical cancer? I don't

1:51:221:51:30

want to use the word eliminate.

If

people took the screening off or up

1:51:301:51:40

as the programme currently is now,

we would stop more than 80% of cases

1:51:401:51:45

of cervical cancer. It's an

incredibly effective set of things

1:51:451:51:48

to do.

Having said that, you say

there are declining numbers of women

1:51:481:51:53

going for screening. Why is that?

It's interesting. I think it's a mix

1:51:531:51:57

of reasons.

Apart from the obvious

that it's not necessarily the

1:51:571:52:02

procedure itself, although it

doesn't take very long, it might not

1:52:021:52:06

be the most comfortable thing to do

for people.

Some people find it

1:52:061:52:11

uncomfortable. And some people are

worried they will find it

1:52:111:52:14

uncomfortable. People lead busy

lives. If you have three jobs and

1:52:141:52:18

four children, you have other things

to worry about and it can be

1:52:181:52:21

difficult to get access to a GP or a

clinic to do these things. And some

1:52:211:52:27

really interesting work suggests

that about five to 8% of people who

1:52:271:52:32

have never had it, have never heard

of it.

1:52:321:52:36

The plot of a new BBC drama The Boy

with the Topknot is based

1:52:361:52:39

on the real life memoirs of Sathnam

Sanghera.

1:52:391:52:41

Born to traditional Sikh

parents in Wolverhampton,

1:52:411:52:43

Sathnam went on to study

at Cambridge and became

1:52:431:52:46

a successful journalist.

1:52:461:52:47

But it wasn't until his late

twenties that he learnt a painful

1:52:471:52:50

family secret about mental illness

in his family.

1:52:501:52:55

In a moment we'll be joined

by Sacha Dahwan who plays Sathnam,

1:52:551:52:58

but first let's watch a clip.

1:52:581:53:03

I went with Daddy to see his doctor

at the clinic the other day.

1:53:031:53:06

Dr Dutta?

1:53:061:53:07

Yeah.

Good man.

1:53:071:53:08

Yeah.

1:53:081:53:09

Why don't we ever talk

about Daddy's schizophrenia?

1:53:091:53:11

What's there to talk about?

1:53:111:53:18

Well, Dr Dutta mentioned aggression.

1:53:181:53:19

What are you saying?

1:53:191:53:20

When was the last time you saw

Daddy be aggressive?

1:53:201:53:22

Never, he'd have never.

1:53:221:53:23

He's the kindest, gentlest man.

1:53:231:53:26

No, I'm not saying he isn't.

He is on medication now.

1:53:261:53:28

He's been on medication

since before you were born.

1:53:281:53:31

Why are you bringing this up now?

1:53:311:53:32

Indi, I didn't know this

until two days ago.

1:53:321:53:34

Of course you knew.

I didn't.

1:53:341:53:36

You knew.

I didn't.

1:53:361:53:37

And Sacha is with us now.

1:53:371:53:39

. How did you first hear about this

role?

Every year the BBC announced

1:53:431:53:49

the projects they will do and I saw

this one. I had gone through other

1:53:491:53:54

projects and knew the ones that I

wouldn't be seen for and then I saw

1:53:541:54:03

The Boy With The Top Knot. I thought

the book was amazing and I had

1:54:031:54:08

reservations because I thought they

could tip it on its head and it

1:54:081:54:11

wouldn't be as good. I auditioned

for it, and it happened.

You almost

1:54:111:54:15

didn't audition for it.

I didn't.

The story is so personal to me as

1:54:151:54:23

well. I have always played

characters that are incredibly

1:54:231:54:26

different to me. This was so close

to home and I wasn't sure I was

1:54:261:54:31

ready enough to put that to the

forefront. But it was actually my

1:54:311:54:35

girlfriend who had a serious word

with me and said, you are turning

1:54:351:54:38

this down because you are scared of

the challenge. The challenges you

1:54:381:54:42

are scared of the most are the ones

you should do. It's the best thing I

1:54:421:54:47

have ever done.

The best thing you

have ever done?

Yeah, I'm so proud

1:54:471:54:53

of it, and I'm doing the press for

it now and realise how important it

1:54:531:54:56

is. Not the fact it is representing

us, our background, but the fact it

1:54:561:55:02

is putting mental illness at the

forefront as well. People just don't

1:55:021:55:05

talk about it.

When you say it is

closely related to elements of your

1:55:051:55:10

own life, could you give me

examples?

Not just being from an

1:55:101:55:13

Indian background, it's that at the

age of around 30 I felt very

1:55:131:55:20

disconnected from my roots. I wasn't

going home as much. I knew my

1:55:201:55:25

family, my parents, they were going

through some difficulties and I

1:55:251:55:28

chose to avoid it and run away from

it. Around the age of 30 I

1:55:281:55:35

confronted it. I just got to

communicate with my parents a bit

1:55:351:55:38

more and it was the best thing that

happened. It changed everything. It

1:55:381:55:42

freed me and made me realise, and I

love my work as an actor, but it's

1:55:421:55:48

not everything. Family is really

important, which is what this drama

1:55:481:55:52

is about.

I have seen some of this

and it's really a deeply moving

1:55:521:55:57

story. I come from a Sikh family and

it comes across as very authentic. A

1:55:571:56:02

lot of the detail is very authentic,

I could relate to it and a lot of

1:56:021:56:06

the conversations could have

happened in my household. How did

1:56:061:56:09

you feel about getting across the

authenticity. And this isn't a

1:56:091:56:15

fictional character, this is

Sathnam's life.

Exactly what you

1:56:151:56:20

said, it's not just about a generic

Indian community, it's specifically

1:56:201:56:25

Sathnam's story. I had the book and

I had Sathnam at hand and I met him

1:56:251:56:30

straightaway when I got the part. I

realised I had to be sensitive

1:56:301:56:34

because the story is still going on

for him at the moment. I met him

1:56:341:56:37

because I wanted to get his

blessing. After chatting for five

1:56:371:56:43

minutes we both realised we had so

much in common. I realise that his

1:56:431:56:48

story is so much my story, the story

I was scared of telling. He said to

1:56:481:56:53

on the part. You are playing me, but

it's all you as well. -- own the

1:56:531:57:01

part.

In particular it explores a

lot of Sathnam's mother and how she

1:57:011:57:09

deals with her husband's mental

illness.

That's a big thing. It made

1:57:091:57:14

me realise the amount of respect I

have for my parents, particularly my

1:57:141:57:18

own mum. Particularly Sathnam's mum.

I have an immense respect for her,

1:57:181:57:26

she's the most selfless woman I have

ever met. To think what she has been

1:57:261:57:31

through, you wouldn't even think it.

The fact she came over at such a

1:57:311:57:34

young age into new country and then

had to contend with her husband

1:57:341:57:40

having an illness that they both

know what it was. Just the lack of

1:57:401:57:45

communication and being able to

speak the language.

Sathnam did not

1:57:451:57:49

find out until much later on, he had

secrets he didn't tell his family

1:57:491:57:53

about. What was it like when you

finally saw the finished version?

1:57:531:57:59

Did you watch it with Sathnam's mum?

What was the reaction?

I watched it

1:57:591:58:03

with Sathnam. We were both

terrified. You never know. You do

1:58:031:58:08

the best is you do, but you don't

know until it gets to the edit what

1:58:081:58:13

it will be like. I realise that as

much as it is about a Sikh family,

1:58:131:58:18

and Sathnam's family and mental

illness, it's about any family. It

1:58:181:58:22

made me think about my own family.

It's been a pleasure to have you on.

1:58:221:58:26

The Boy With The Topknot

is on BBC2 on Monday at 9pm.

1:58:261:58:29

Thank you for your company today.

1:58:291:58:30

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