14/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


14/11/2017

An exclusive interview with an alleged rape victim who reported the attack to the Commons authorities and has waived her right to anonymity.


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Transcript


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Hello it's Tuesday, it's nine

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

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welcome to the programme.

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Our top story this morning:

it's another crucial day

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in the Brexit countdown.

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Battle lines over Brexit as Mrs May

seeks to push through crucial

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legislation to take us out of the EU

and Tory rebels are warned that if

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they oppose Mrs May they could pave

the way forward Jeremy Corbyn

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government. -- for a Jeremy Corbyn

government.

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We'll bring you all the details.

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Also on the programme -

in her first British TV interview

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we speak to a surrogate mother

from California, who gave birth

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to two babies and then found

out one of the children

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was biologically hers.

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I was already pregnant

through in vitro

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with the IVF centre,

and when

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I was about six, seven weeks

pregnant, they found another embryo.

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The doctor, they just did that.

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The embryo that they

transferred split

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into two and turned into twins.

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My body still ovulated

while already pregnant.

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And then the obvious

happened with your husband.

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Of course.

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That full interview

in around 15 minutes' time.

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And the television producer

and writer, Daisy Goodwin -

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who created the ITV drama,

"Victoria" - has claimed

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she was assaulted by a government

official during

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a visit to Number Ten.

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Hello.

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Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11am.

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We won an award last night, I hope

you don't mind me mentioning it. It

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is courtesy of the Mind mental

health charity. Thank you to Mind

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and the judges who gave us this

award. And really it's a massive

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thank you to you, people who trusted

us to come on the programme and talk

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in Frank weighs about their mental

health issues. This is for you.

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A little later we'll hear how

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councils are using bailiffs

to collect unpaid debt.

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It's been described

as "deeply troubling"

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by the money advice trust -

really keen to hear from you.

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Has a council used a bailff on you?

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Do get in touch and share your

experiences this morning -

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use the hashtag Victoria live.

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Our top story...

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MPs will begin going through a key

piece of Brexit legislation today -

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the EU Withdrawal Bill,

which will help turn

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European laws into UK ones.

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They'll be scrutinising the bill

line by line and have already

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suggested hundreds of changes,

some of them coming

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from Conservative rebels.

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Yesterday, the Brexit Secretary,

David Davis, made a surprise

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concession, promising Parliament

would get a vote on

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the final Brexit deal.

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Our political correspondent

Leila Nathoo reports.

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The Prime Minister.

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Still the one in charge, Theresa May

last night at the glittering

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Lord Mayor's Banquet in London,

a break from Brexit

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and potential trouble ahead.

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A key piece of the government's

Brexit legislation returns

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to the Commons today,

and MPs are trying

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to tinker with it.

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They are proposing hundreds

of changes to try to influence

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ministers' approach,

and so yesterday an apparent

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concession to one

of their key demands.

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I can now confirm that once we have

reached an agreement we will bring

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forward a specific piece of primary

legislation to implement

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that agreement.

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Parliament will be given time

to debate, scrutinise and vote

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on the final agreement we strike

with the European Union.

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This agreement will only hold

if parliament approves it.

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But with such a fragile majority,

just a handful of Tory backbenchers

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siding with the opposition

would lead to a government defeat.

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And those minded to rebel seem

unsatisfied with the

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take it or leave it vote

the government has offered.

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I have to say, a lot of us

were insulted by this.

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I mean, because it sounded so good

and then when you dug

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into the detail you realise this

so-called meaningful vote

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was completely meaningless.

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There will be more contentious votes

here in the coming weeks as MPs

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test the government's

fragile working majority.

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Norman Smith

is at Westminster.

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It is another big day. That

concession, which some have put in

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inverted commas from David Davis, is

it a meaningful vote in the end?

Mrs

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May's critics don't think so because

the problem is, although there will

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be a bill, it won't be like a normal

bill. Usually with bills, MPs can

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amend them, change them, they can

say to ministers you need to go away

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and think again and recast this

legislation. With this bill it is

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take it or leave it time and if they

don't like it, tough. We will leave

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the EU without any sort of deal and

that is nightmare land for many

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Remainers. However, they are under

massive, massive pressure to back

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off because some Tories are saying,

if you rebels defeat Mrs May, that

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is such a big moment that it could

possibly amount to a vote of

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confidence in the Government, that

might mean a general election, it

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could mean a Jeremy Corbyn

government. They are under colossal

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pressure to back off.

And tell us

more about Mrs May's accusations of

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Russian meddling.

Very striking

because although Mrs May said last

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night it is not a return to the Cold

War, you get a sense relations with

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Russia are in the deep freezer

big-time. Last night Mrs May accused

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Russia of annex in Crimea, the first

time she said that had happened in

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Europe since the Nazis and Second

World War. She accused them of

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fermenting conflict in the Ukraine,

engaging in cyber warfare and

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meddling in elections. Have a listen

to some of her language last night.

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It is seeking to weaponise

information, deploying its state-run

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media organisations to plant fake

stories and photoshopped images in

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an attempt to sow discord in the

west and undermine our institutions.

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So I have a very simple message for

Russia. We know what you are doing

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and you will not succeed.

Now, just

imagine that Boris Johnson has to go

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to Russia next month. How difficult

is it going to be for the Foreign

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Secretary to go there and try to

foster better relations with

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President Putin in the wake of those

attacks from Mrs May.

For now, thank

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you.

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Ben Brown is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

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of the rest of the day's news.

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Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

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committed widespread abuses

during what they call 'a campaign

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of ethnic cleansing' against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

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The organisation said

Government forces have

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committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

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detention, and arson.

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More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

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in the north of the country.

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We'll have a film including

testimony from the refugees

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just after ten o'clock.

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A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

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programme that she feels fobbed off,

despite receiving a phone call

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from the Leader of the House.

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Andrea Leadsom called Lisa Wade,

who's waived her right

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to anonymity, last night,

several months after the incident

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was first reported to her.

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Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

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because of an ongoing legal case.

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We'll hear from Lisa at 9.30am.

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The television producer

and writer, Daisy Goodwin -

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who created the ITV drama,

"Victoria" - has claimed

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she was groped by a government

official during a visit

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to Number Ten.

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She told the Radio Times the man

put his hand on her breast

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after a meeting to discuss

a proposed TV show when David

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Cameron was Prime Minister.

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She said she wasn't

traumatised, but was cross -

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adding she didn't report it

at the time.

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Downing Street said they take

all allegations very seriously

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and would look into any formal

complaint, should one be made.

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Thousands of people are spending

a second night without shelter

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in near freezing conditions

after an earthquake

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caused devastation in

parts of Iran and Iraq.

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More than 450 people were killed

and around 7,000 injured.

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Sarah Corker reports.

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This is the deadliest earthquake

in the world this year.

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The border town of Pol-e Zahab

here in western Iran

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bore the brunt of it.

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Homes were flattened in seconds,

crushing everyone inside.

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The search for survivors

has been frantic.

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But early this morning,

Iranian officials called off

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the rescue operation.

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At this local hospital,

many of the injured had

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stories of narrow escapes.

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TRANSLATION: I fell

from the balcony down.

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The earthquake was very strong.

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This mountainous area

is prone to earthquakes.

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Power cuts and landslides

have made it difficult

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for rescue teams to get in.

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The most severely hurt

have been airlifted out,

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some taken to hospital

in the Iranian capital, Tehran.

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But, overwhelmed by the sheer number

of injured, the authorities

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are appealing for people

to donate blood.

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And this is the moment this

7.3-magnitude quake hit

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in neighbouring Iraq.

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A man runs for his life

from the control room of this dam.

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Boulders were tossed

around like pebbles.

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A picture of widespread

devastation is emerging -

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hundreds dead, thousands

injured, many missing.

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Turkey has sent a convoy

of aid trucks, medication,

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tents and blankets, and many have

spent a second night outdoors,

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terrified by the after-shocks.

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So far, there have been

more than 190 of them.

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A man and woman have been arrested

on suspicion of murdering a teenager

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who has not been seen

for nearly a week.

0:11:050:11:13

19-year-old Gaia Pope, who has

severe epilepsy, was last seen

0:11:130:11:18

on the 7th November.

0:11:180:11:19

Dorset Police say a 19-year-old man

and a 71-year-old woman

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were arrested after searches took

place at two addresses in Swanage.

0:11:220:11:25

Officers say they were

both known to Gaia.

0:11:250:11:30

Head teachers representing

more than 5,000 schools

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across England have sent a joint

letter to the Chancellor,

0:11:320:11:34

Philip Hammond, warning

of inadequate funding.

0:11:340:11:36

They say they are increasingly

having to ask parents for donations.

0:11:360:11:40

The government has already promised

to move £1.3 billion

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of education funding into schools,

but

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heads say they need

another £1.7 billion

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of new money.

0:11:520:11:54

One of the victims of an acid attack

in a London nightclub has told

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the BBC that she hopes

the conviction of the man

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who assalted her will put others off

committing similar crimes.

0:12:000:12:03

Arthur Collins - the ex-boyfriend

of reality TV star Ferne McCann -

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was found guilty of throwing acid

across a crowded nightclub,

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injuring 22 people.

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He will be sentenced in December.

0:12:090:12:11

Lauren Trent told us

she still struggles with anxiety

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more than six months

after the attack.

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Being in busy places,

I'm extremely anxious.

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If I can't see the dance floor,

or if I can't see what's

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going on, or if a fight breaks out,

you know, the first thing that goes

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through my head nowadays is,

what are they going to do?

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What are they going to pull out?

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It's only up until now

that we can talk about

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things and hear how everyone went

through the trial

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and things like that.

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I think, a massive sense of relief,

but it doesn't change what

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happened whatsoever,

but I think it's more of, you know,

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OK, well, something's been done

that's setting

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the standard now for anyone,

you know, that's thinking

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about doing something like this.

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It's putting them off doing

something like that.

0:12:500:12:54

Britain's biggest supermarket -

Tesco - has been given the green

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light to buy out our biggest

food wholesaler Booker.

0:12:570:13:00

The Competition and Markets

Authority says the deal does

0:13:000:13:02

not raise competition

nor pricing concerns.

0:13:020:13:06

Booker has a retail arm -

including brands Premier,

0:13:060:13:08

Londis and Budgens -

but also makes money

0:13:080:13:10

in the catering industry.

0:13:100:13:12

Tesco said the tie up

would bring benefits

0:13:120:13:14

for small retailers,

suppliers, consumers and staff.

0:13:140:13:24

A leading debt charity says

it's deeply troubled

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by the increasing use of bailiffs

by local authorities in England

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and Wales to recover

money they are owed.

0:13:320:13:34

The Money Advice Trust found

the number of cases had risen

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by 14% over two years

to 2.3 million.

0:13:440:13:53

The Local Government Association

said bailiffs are only

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used as a last resort.

0:13:540:13:56

The largest diamond of its kind

every to be put up for auction

0:13:560:13:59

will go under the hammer

in Geneva today.

0:13:590:14:01

The 163-carat stone,

which was discovered

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in Angola last year,

is set into a necklace of almost

0:14:020:14:05

6,000 emeralds, and over

800 smaller diamonds.

0:14:050:14:07

It took ten months to cut

and is expected to fetch

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30 million dollars,

which is almost 23 million pounds.

0:14:100:14:19

That's a summary of the latest

BBC News, more at 9.30.

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We have had an e-mail from Megan

about bailiffs. Figures suggesting

0:14:230:14:28

councils are using them more and

more to collect unpaid parking

0:14:280:14:32

fines. Megan had a stressful

experience during a parking fine

0:14:320:14:37

that had been sent to a previous

address so I wasn't aware though of

0:14:370:14:42

it. I attempted to discuss this with

the council who refused and said

0:14:420:14:46

communication should be made with

the bailiffs. Having a baby and

0:14:460:14:51

being on maternity pay, I was

fearful these bullies would turn up

0:14:510:14:55

on my doorstep.

0:14:550:15:03

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning.

0:15:030:15:09

If you text, you will be charged.

0:15:090:15:11

Let's get some sport

from Catherine Downs.

0:15:110:15:13

We are going to have a World Cup

without Italy.

0:15:130:15:18

Yes, Italy will not be at the World

Cup for the first time in 60 years.

0:15:180:15:24

Four time World Cup winners and they

will not be going after they were

0:15:240:15:28

beaten by Sweden in the end. What

went wrong perhaps for Italy? The

0:15:280:15:35

coach is blamed for relying on a

group of experienced veterans, not

0:15:350:15:39

playing his young talent.

0:15:390:15:46

All kinds of despair in the Italian

Italian papers. They are calling it

0:15:460:15:52

the end of the world. The legendary

Italian goalkeeper announced his

0:15:520:15:57

retirement from football. This will

be his last game seeing his country

0:15:570:16:01

fail to make it to the World Cup in

Russia next year. Why are we making

0:16:010:16:06

a big deal of it? Well, I went to

Rome a couple of years ago after

0:16:060:16:12

Claudio Ranieri won the Premier

League with Leicester City. Everyone

0:16:120:16:15

I spoke to had heard about Claudio

Ranieri. Knew exactly everything

0:16:150:16:22

that they could about Italian

football and the division of loyalty

0:16:220:16:27

as well between Roma fans and Lazio

fans was like nothing I had seen,

0:16:270:16:35

that was just in one city in Rome

and for a nation to fail to make to

0:16:350:16:39

the World Cup next year, it will be

a national sense of despair to go

0:16:390:16:43

along with that. Let's talk about

gymnastics t Dan Keating agreed

0:16:430:16:50

there was a culture of fear at

British gymnastics. What else had he

0:16:500:16:55

had to say?

There has been a

rumbling of discontent in British

0:16:550:17:01

gymnastics, a culture of fear of

discontent amongst the elite

0:17:010:17:07

gymnastics and now Dan Keating, he

is Commonwealth champion. He has

0:17:070:17:15

agreed there is a culture of fear in

British gymnastics. He said that he

0:17:150:17:20

was repeatedly called fat in

training. He was often depressed and

0:17:200:17:23

unwilling to leave the house at some

points. He said athletes like him

0:17:230:17:28

were scared of speaking out for fear

of losing their place in the team

0:17:280:17:32

and losing the funding that comes

with that. He said when he retired

0:17:320:17:36

in January, it was a massive relief,

a weight off his shoulders, he said.

0:17:360:17:40

Talking about the fact that there is

success in British gymnastics, but

0:17:400:17:44

it comes at a cost. The Chief

Executive of British gymnastics Jane

0:17:440:17:51

Allen said, "Our safeguarding

processes are robust." They are

0:17:510:17:54

aware of the complaints. Athletes

should be encouraged to come

0:17:540:17:59

forward. But this is another British

sport, as well as British swimming,

0:17:590:18:07

British bobsleigh, British canoeing

coming under the spotlight now

0:18:070:18:11

Victoria.

There are some top

gymnasts that are yet to sign new

0:18:110:18:16

contracts?

There is a lot of tooing

and froing about the new contracts

0:18:160:18:21

that come from the governing body.

Some gymnasts we understand have not

0:18:210:18:28

yet agreed to sign their contract at

the moment. They are unhappy with

0:18:280:18:33

the clauses that stop them,

according to Dan Keating from

0:18:330:18:37

finding their own sponsors and

raising their own money from outside

0:18:370:18:40

the sport and Dan Keating says that

British gymnastics are looking to

0:18:400:18:46

control everything that athletes

like Max Whitlock, who we are seeing

0:18:460:18:49

right now, are able to earn outside

the sport. There is a meeting, we

0:18:490:18:53

understand, between the governing

body and top athletes like Max

0:18:530:18:56

Whitlock happening over the next

couple of days and they are hoping

0:18:560:18:59

to pin down the contracts and get

them signed, but at a point where

0:18:590:19:04

British gymnastics is enjoying this

success, Max Whitlock won two

0:19:040:19:09

Olympic titles in Rio and seven

medals at the Rio Games, the

0:19:090:19:14

question now for British gymnastics

as in so many British sports at the

0:19:140:19:17

moment is at what cost success?

Cheers, Catherine, thank you.

0:19:170:19:28

This morning, in her first British

TV interview we speak to a surrogate

0:19:280:19:31

mother from California,

who gave birth to two

0:19:310:19:35

babies and then found out

that one of the children

0:19:350:19:38

was biologically hers.

0:19:380:19:39

Jessica Allen became pregnant

with her own biological child whilst

0:19:390:19:42

she was carrying another baby

as a surrogate for a Chinese couple.

0:19:420:19:46

She only realised after she'd

handed over the babies

0:19:460:19:52

to their intended parents and then

she faced a lengthy custody

0:19:520:19:55

battle to get her son back.

0:19:550:19:57

Jessica and her son Malachi spoke

to us from their home in California.

0:19:570:20:00

She told me about the birth of what

everybody thought was twins.

0:20:000:20:06

It was a scheduled C-section,

my first surgery.

0:20:070:20:10

Luckily, everything went

well, there were no

0:20:100:20:12

complications or problems.

0:20:120:20:13

And I was able to...

0:20:130:20:14

BABY SHOUTS.

0:20:140:20:18

Able to heal and

everything, it was good.

0:20:180:20:20

It was a good labour.

0:20:200:20:21

Did you get to see the boys?

0:20:210:20:24

No, I did not see them.

0:20:240:20:26

How did you feel about that?

0:20:260:20:34

I was very hurt by it.

0:20:340:20:41

I was very hurt by it,

it was in my contract that I

0:20:410:20:45

was going to have an hour

visit with the babies.

0:20:450:20:49

And when I asked her

if they were going to stop by before

0:20:490:20:52

they left the hospital,

she stated probably not.

0:20:520:20:56

That instantly brought me to tears,

and you know, broke my heart.

0:20:560:21:02

You did see a photograph of the two

boys, what did they look

0:21:020:21:05

like, what did you say

when you saw that picture?

0:21:050:21:13

It was a picture of them side

by side with beanies out,

0:21:130:21:19

their faces turn towards each other

with their eyes closed.

0:21:190:21:22

So it wasn't a perfect

face shot, but it was

0:21:220:21:26

definitely obvious that

they weren't identical.

0:21:260:21:29

And I stated after looking

at the picture and I was

0:21:290:21:32

handing it back, I stated

that they looked different.

0:21:320:21:39

My caseworker, through

the agency was in the room

0:21:390:21:44

with me and she stated also

that she gave birth to identical

0:21:440:21:47

twins that didn't look identical

at birth, but

0:21:470:21:49

as they got older,

they started looking identical.

0:21:490:21:57

So I took that as maybe

that was the case of my twins also.

0:21:570:22:00

I didn't even know identical twins

could come out not identical

0:22:000:22:03

and then as getting

older, being identical.

0:22:030:22:07

So that's what she said

and that is how I took it.

0:22:070:22:11

And then you got a text

from the other mum, the

0:22:110:22:15

intended mum a month or so later

with a photograph of the boys.

0:22:150:22:18

What did she ask you?

0:22:180:22:25

She just stated that she is

getting a DNA test for

0:22:250:22:31

her embassy so she could go back

home to her country and that she is

0:22:310:22:35

also having doubts that one

doesn't belong to her.

0:22:350:22:38

She stated that she was waiting

for me to be well to let me know.

0:22:380:22:41

It was already a month later.

0:22:410:22:46

She basically was just letting me

know that she was having doubts.

0:22:460:22:52

Right, and she asked you if you'd

considered why they were

0:22:520:22:54

different, how did

you respond to that?

0:22:540:22:58

I responded with exactly what my

caseworker told me, you know,

0:22:580:23:02

they were probably just not

looking identical at birth.

0:23:020:23:06

And lso, I knew they were in

separate sacs, and you

0:23:060:23:09

know, we all know if you are

carrying twins in two different

0:23:090:23:12

sacs, they are not identical.

0:23:120:23:18

So tell our British audience

about what happened

0:23:180:23:24

eventually you found out that

Malachy

0:23:240:23:26

was in fact your son and not

from the sorrow that embryo.

0:23:260:23:27

was in fact your son and not

from the surrogate embryo.

0:23:340:23:37

After I got the text

with with the picture of the test

0:23:370:23:40

results stating that the intended

father was not his genetic father,

0:23:400:23:43

you know, I was freaking out.

0:23:430:23:46

I called my caseworker

asking her what is going on.

0:23:460:23:49

And she didn't have answers.

0:23:490:23:55

The only thing she knew

what to say was, I have two get

0:23:550:24:02

myself into the DNA lab and get

tested for my results to see if I

0:24:020:24:05

was the mother of the baby.

0:24:050:24:06

So we went and did that.

0:24:060:24:10

And about a week and a half later,

I got the test results

0:24:100:24:13

saying I am his genetic mother.

0:24:130:24:15

My caseworker immediately went

and picked him up and put him under

0:24:150:24:18

her care.

0:24:180:24:22

So you were the biological mother

of one of the babies and the

0:24:220:24:27

other mum was the biological

mother of the other baby?

0:24:270:24:29

Yes.

0:24:290:24:33

Which is absolutely extraordinary!

How does that happen?

0:24:330:24:40

Well, I was already

pregnant through in vitro

0:24:400:24:47

with the IVF centre.

0:24:470:24:50

And when I was six, seven

weeks pregnant they found

0:24:500:24:52

another embryo.

0:24:520:24:54

The doctor just stated

that the embryo be transferred was

0:24:540:24:56

split into two and

turned into twins.

0:24:560:24:58

My body still ovulated

while already pregnant.

0:24:580:25:04

And then the obvious

happened with your husband?

0:25:040:25:08

Of course!

0:25:080:25:13

So, tell us how your little boy

was eventually returned to you?

0:25:130:25:22

Well, after communicating back

and forth with the surrogate

0:25:220:25:29

agency for almost a month,

and the process of trying to find an

0:25:290:25:35

attorney, they just kept giving us

excuses as to why they weren't

0:25:350:25:40

handing him over to me

and after we finally found

0:25:400:25:42

an attorney, all it

took was an e-mail from her stating

0:25:420:25:45

that they better hand over my child

or they will create more damages

0:25:450:25:48

than what they already have.

0:25:480:25:49

So we got a phone call

and we were told we

0:25:490:25:52

could go and meet the caseworker

at Starbucks and pick up our baby.

0:25:520:25:59

So you went to the car park

of Starbucks, tell us what happened

0:25:590:26:02

and how you were feeling?

0:26:020:26:08

Are you OK, Jessica?

0:26:120:26:19

Sorry, this part just gets hard.

0:26:200:26:25

It's no problem.

0:26:250:26:29

I went and met her at

the Starbucks parking lot

0:26:290:26:32

and she was late.

0:26:320:26:36

So I was freaking out already

that this was just going

0:26:360:26:38

to be another time that I was

supposed to get him and didn't.

0:26:380:26:44

When she finally arrived, I started

walking and she grabbed him out of

0:26:440:26:47

the car in his car seat

and walked towards me.

0:26:470:26:52

We kind of met in the middle

and she just took him out of

0:26:520:26:55

his car seat...

0:26:550:26:57

It's OK, take your time.

0:26:570:27:07

And I just snatched him from her

and said, "Give me my baby".

0:27:070:27:10

And that was clearly

a very, very emotional

0:27:100:27:12

time for you?

0:27:120:27:13

Yeah.

0:27:130:27:14

What did it feel

like to hold your son?

0:27:140:27:17

I was heartbroken

because I missed two

0:27:170:27:19

months of his life because of them.

0:27:190:27:25

But I was also relieved

because it was my first time finally

0:27:250:27:30

seeing him and I knew

that he was finally in our

0:27:300:27:32

arms where he is safe

and where he belongs.

0:27:320:27:36

And when did you first hear this

word, superfertation?

0:27:360:27:43

We started finding this

word and their term

0:27:430:27:46

for it when we started

doing our research

0:27:460:27:49

if this has happened

to anyone before.

0:27:490:27:54

Obviously it has because there

is an actual term for it.

0:27:540:27:58

But it's so rare, I think there

are only like a dozen cases across

0:27:580:28:01

the world?

0:28:010:28:02

Yes.

0:28:020:28:12

It has happened and there's only

so many recorded, but

0:28:140:28:17

it has happened more

than that and I wish more

0:28:170:28:20

women would come forward,

other women that it has happened to,

0:28:200:28:24

so we know how common

it actually is.

0:28:240:28:27

How would you describe

what it means?

0:28:270:28:37

I mean it means that

when a woman is pregnant

0:28:380:28:40

she still naturally ovulate

and concedes another child.

0:28:400:28:42

You know, they are not

twins and they

0:28:420:28:44

are not even the same exact age,

but she ends up having two different

0:28:440:28:47

babies at the same time.

0:28:470:28:52

We saw Malachy at the beginning

of the interview.

0:28:520:28:57

He looks happy, he's bonnie,

he looks healthy, how is he?

0:28:570:29:02

He's a handful.

0:29:020:29:05

He's beautiful, he's hyper,

he's happy, healthy.

0:29:050:29:09

He keeps us busy and his

brothers love him.

0:29:090:29:12

Daddy and I love him.

0:29:120:29:18

We are very grateful

he is here where he belongs.

0:29:180:29:20

What do you think

your little boy will

0:29:200:29:22

make of this when he's older?

0:29:220:29:23

You've obviously got

a bit of time before you

0:29:230:29:26

think about whether you are going

to tell him everything, what do you

0:29:260:29:29

think he's going to say?

0:29:290:29:34

When the time comes,

we'll cross that bridge.

0:29:340:29:38

But I know there is going to be

a day when he's going to know his

0:29:380:29:42

life made an impact

all around the world.

0:29:420:29:47

That is certainly

true and here he is.

0:29:470:29:51

How old is he now, Jessica?

0:29:510:29:57

He's 11 months now.

0:29:570:30:00

He just turned 11 months yesterday.

0:30:000:30:02

He's absolutely adorable.

0:30:020:30:08

Astonishing to think

that this little boy has made

0:30:080:30:10

headlines around

the world, isn't it?

0:30:100:30:13

Oh yes, it's kind of...

0:30:130:30:16

Unreal.

0:30:160:30:19

It doesn't seem real,

but it's our reality

0:30:190:30:29

and it's kind

of hard to wrap our heads around it.

0:30:290:30:32

We are just taking it

one day at a time.

0:30:320:30:34

We are very grateful you have been

speaking to us and our

0:30:340:30:37

British viewers.

0:30:370:30:38

Thank you so much, Jessica.

0:30:380:30:40

Thank you Malachy.

0:30:400:30:41

Thank you.

0:30:410:30:42

BABY SNEEZES.

0:30:420:30:43

Bless you.

0:30:430:30:44

Bless you.

0:30:440:30:45

Goodbye.

0:30:450:30:46

Bye.

0:30:460:30:47

Thank you.

0:30:470:30:48

Thank you, Jessica,

what a sweetheart he is.

0:30:480:30:52

Still to come, an alleged rape

victim tells us exclusively why

0:30:520:30:56

she feels "fobbed off"

by authorities in the Commons

0:30:560:30:59

despite receiving a phone

call from the leader

0:30:590:31:01

of the House last night.

0:31:010:31:06

Plus we'll be live Myanmar

where deeply disturbing claims

0:31:060:31:10

of mass rape and other crimes

against the Rohingya

0:31:100:31:15

Muslims are being reported.

0:31:150:31:20

Time for the latest news.

0:31:200:31:31

MPs will today begin debating a key

piece of Brexit legislation -

0:31:430:31:46

the EU withdrawal bill.

0:31:460:31:47

It will help turn European laws

into UK ones but opponents including

0:31:470:31:50

Tory rebels have tabled

scores of amendments.

0:31:500:31:52

Meanwhile a Parliamentary report

is warning a failure to complete

0:31:520:31:54

the introduction of a new customs

system by the date of Brexit in 2019

0:31:540:31:58

would be "catastrophic".

0:31:580:32:08

Theresa May has launched her

strongest attack on Russia yet,

0:32:090:32:11

accusing Moscow of meddling

in elections and carrying

0:32:110:32:13

out cyber espionage.

0:32:130:32:14

Speaking at the Lord Mayor's banquet

in London, the Prime Minister said

0:32:140:32:17

Vladimir Putin's government

was trying to "undermine free

0:32:170:32:19

societies" by planting

fake information.

0:32:190:32:23

A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

0:32:230:32:25

programme that she feels

disappointed, despite

0:32:250:32:27

receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House.

0:32:270:32:29

Andrea Leadsom called Lisa Wade -

who's waived her right

0:32:290:32:32

to anonymity - last night,

several months after the incident

0:32:320:32:34

was first reported to her.

0:32:340:32:35

Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

0:32:350:32:39

because of an ongoing legal case.

0:32:390:32:40

We'll hear from Lisa shortly.

0:32:400:32:41

Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

0:32:410:32:43

committed widespread abuses

during what they call 'a campaign

0:32:430:32:46

of ethnic cleansing' against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

0:32:460:32:47

The organisation said

Government forces have

0:32:470:32:49

committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

0:32:490:32:50

detention, and arson.

0:32:500:32:51

More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

0:32:510:32:54

in the north of the country.

0:32:540:32:55

We'll have a film including

testimony from the refugees

0:32:550:32:57

just after ten o'clock.

0:32:570:32:58

That's a summary of our latest news,

back to you. On the story of

0:32:580:33:05

bailiffs, I was hounded because

council tax had lost my benefit

0:33:050:33:09

form. I don't pay it because I'm

university student but after

0:33:090:33:14

constant calls they wouldn't let it

go. I am terrified I'm going to you

0:33:140:33:23

lose everything. This e-mail from

Tyrone. ... This from the shell, my

0:33:230:33:31

sister owed her previous council

tax. Bailiffs were sent to my

0:33:310:33:39

sister, who on benefits had little

to offer. The bailiff said he needed

0:33:390:33:43

half of what was owed that day and

in panic she gave the bailiff my

0:33:430:33:51

mother's number who was 70 and has

health conditions. He pressured her

0:33:510:33:55

to pay half over the phone and told

her my sister could go to prison,

0:33:550:34:00

and she paid up. It is disgusting

behaviour. They have a job to do but

0:34:000:34:08

they have to play fair. Thank you

for those. We are going to talk

0:34:080:34:13

about bailiffs after 10:30am.

0:34:130:34:17

Breaking news now.

0:34:170:34:24

And the latest inflation

figures are out now -

0:34:240:34:26

what do they tell us?

0:34:260:34:29

It is slightly less than was

expected. The consensus among

0:34:290:34:34

economists had been to 3.1% and the

Bank of England said these figures

0:34:340:34:38

for October would be the peak of

inflation or likely to be. That's

0:34:380:34:43

what they were forecasting. The fact

the peak was slightly below what

0:34:430:34:48

some people expected means there's

less of an urgent need to make a

0:34:480:34:51

second rise in interest rates any

time soon. A few interesting

0:34:510:34:56

details, unfortunately the inflation

rate for food and nonalcoholic

0:34:560:35:02

beverages was its highest in four

years, 4.1%.

What's driving that? A

0:35:020:35:08

lot of it is to do with the fact we

import our food.

It is still

0:35:080:35:15

substantially down from where it was

a couple of years ago and it means

0:35:150:35:18

when people import they have to pay

in Euros or dollars and that

0:35:180:35:24

requires more pounds to get the same

amounts of food. You see that

0:35:240:35:29

feeding through to supermarket

shelves. There's been a theory they

0:35:290:35:33

have been protecting us to some

extent from the impact of the weaker

0:35:330:35:36

pound but they cannot do that

forever and we are seeing some of

0:35:360:35:41

that feeding through.

OK, what does

it mean for people in the run-up to

0:35:410:35:46

Christmas?

It is the same as last

month and the month before. Their

0:35:460:35:50

wages are not growing as fast as

prices are. Although credit is very

0:35:500:35:57

cheap, think about how much you

should rely on cheap credit for the

0:35:570:36:02

sustainable future. You can have a

nice Christmas now but in ten months

0:36:020:36:06

it could be harder.

Have a nice

Christmas to you as well.

Sorry!

0:36:060:36:14

It's OK, it is only your job!

0:36:140:36:23

Now, the sport. Italy will not be in

the World Cup, and the Italian press

0:36:230:36:30

have described the result as

Apocalypse.

0:36:300:36:33

Moeen Ali will play his first game

of England's Ashes tour, he has

0:36:330:36:38

recovered from a side strain and

makes the team.

0:36:380:36:45

World number one Rafael Nadal has

withdrawn from end of season tour

0:36:450:36:49

finals with a knee injury. He was

beaten last night by David Goffin.

0:36:490:36:58

And the Commonwealth champion Dan

Keatings has said there is a culture

0:36:580:37:01

of fear in British gymnastics as a

row about contracts rumbles on. He

0:37:010:37:07

said his experience in the sport

left him depressed and I will be

0:37:070:37:11

talking more about that in about

half an hour.

0:37:110:37:15

Thank you. It is 9:37am, good

morning.

0:37:150:37:19

Every European Country

is in the midst of growing

0:37:190:37:21

homelessness crisis,

with one exception - Finland.

0:37:210:37:24

There, they've almost eradicated

homelessness in the capital

0:37:240:37:26

by giving people a permanent home

as soon as they become homeless.

0:37:260:37:29

That scheme is now being

looked at in the UK,

0:37:290:37:31

and the West Midlands could be one

of the first areas to adopt it.

0:37:310:37:35

Their Mayor, Andy Street, has been

to Finland to find out more.

0:37:350:37:39

We'll hear from him shortly,

but first, let's speak

0:37:390:37:43

to Thomas Salmi, one of the homeless

people in Finland this

0:37:430:37:46

scheme has helped.

0:37:460:37:53

I was homeless three years, and I

was in the streets, like, almost two

0:37:530:37:57

winters, Alberta, cold.

0:37:570:38:07

-- out there, cold.

0:38:090:38:12

I had no place to go.

0:38:120:38:13

One year and one day

ago, I moved here.

0:38:130:38:15

If you want an apartment,

a house to live in, you

0:38:150:38:18

don't have to give anything,

like, for exchange.

0:38:180:38:20

It's your human right to live

somewhere, and then you can

0:38:200:38:22

build your life.

0:38:220:38:26

And I came here just a year

ago, and when I look

0:38:260:38:32

back to those days when

I was in the streets,

0:38:320:38:40

I kind of lost hope of anything

getting better.

0:38:400:38:43

But now, when I'm

sitting here, thinking

0:38:430:38:49

about it, I've got an apartment,

I have a job here,

0:38:490:38:54

I'm finally capable of being social

with humans.

0:38:540:39:04

I have no health

problems, but if I never

0:39:040:39:10

had that apartment, it

wouldn't be possible.

0:39:100:39:17

I tried to get an apartment

from Helsinki's renting.

0:39:170:39:23

They told me, you have

to work to rent

0:39:230:39:28

the house, but how can I work

without the house?

0:39:280:39:30

So, it's like a circle.

0:39:300:39:31

It doesn't work.

0:39:310:39:36

And when I come to

work, and I go after

0:39:360:39:39

work, I know that my

house is there for me.

0:39:390:39:48

I can sleep, I can be

there in my own peace.

0:39:480:39:51

It's like my house.

0:39:510:39:52

Nobody comes and tells me,

you have to do this.

0:39:520:39:54

You cannot drink here.

0:39:540:39:55

It's like a rule for this house.

0:39:550:39:57

I can drink if I want.

0:39:570:40:00

And I really drank a lot,

and I mean a lot, when

0:40:000:40:03

I was homeless, but now

I have a house, I have work,

0:40:030:40:06

I'm not feeling like drinking

so much any more.

0:40:060:40:11

Let's talk to Andy Street,

the West Midlands Mayor who visited

0:40:110:40:13

Helsinki and is hoping to introduce

the scheme in his area.

0:40:130:40:20

And Peter Fredriksson,

a senior advisor on housing

0:40:200:40:22

in Finland who has implemented

the Housing First scheme.

0:40:220:40:30

Andy Street, explain how it works

because it seems pretty simple.

You

0:40:300:40:34

could say that. I was lucky enough

to go to Helsinki and the simple

0:40:340:40:39

idea is that the city provides

accommodation, in shared blocks, for

0:40:390:40:45

people who have been rough sleeping,

to move into. As you heard Thomas

0:40:450:40:51

say, that means he has some work he

calls his home and can rebuild his

0:40:510:40:56

life from a place of safety.

From a

council's point of view, you have to

0:40:560:41:01

have that accommodation freely

available and that

0:41:010:41:12

might be the problem here.

The issue

is having the money to secure the

0:41:230:41:25

places in accommodation that I think

we could make available across the

0:41:250:41:28

West Midlands but actually what we

are playing for is the funding to

0:41:280:41:30

pay for it. That's why we have put

our application into government to

0:41:300:41:33

be the pilot in the UK of this

scheme.

And it will cost the West

0:41:330:41:36

Midlands £15 million, is that right?

Over three years, yes.

And would

0:41:360:41:38

that be money well spent to get

that?

Yes, because this is the pilot

0:41:380:41:43

to test this and we are saying it

would be a good investment because

0:41:430:41:46

there are many hidden costs of the

rough sleeping challenge we have.

0:41:460:41:51

Particularly the services provided

to people on the streets, they have

0:41:510:41:55

very significant costs so we can say

if we do this we help people rebuild

0:41:550:41:59

their lives as you heard on the

clip, that is a good investment.

And

0:41:590:42:05

do you know yet how many people that

might help over three years?

Yes, we

0:42:050:42:11

have looked at the number of people

who are rough sleeping on the

0:42:110:42:15

streets in the West Midlands. Last

year the number officially counted

0:42:150:42:19

was about 132 so we have said let's

look over three years at the total

0:42:190:42:23

number of people likely we will need

to accommodate and that is to meet

0:42:230:42:29

the current level.

So if you are

homeless, whether that is sleeping

0:42:290:42:34

rough or sleeping on friends' sofas

or even in temporary accommodation,

0:42:340:42:43

might you be helped?

This is for

people who are rough sleeping with

0:42:430:42:47

absolutely nowhere to go because

there are other issues that lead to

0:42:470:42:51

people, as you say, sofa surfing or

in temporary accommodation and as

0:42:510:42:57

part of our general attack on

homelessness we have to look at the

0:42:570:43:02

causes there as well but this is

about a particular tip of the

0:43:020:43:05

iceberg issue and I'm sure it's the

same in other areas of the country.

0:43:050:43:10

It is that where members of the

public say we have got to do

0:43:100:43:14

something about this, it cannot be

right.

Let me bring in Peter

0:43:140:43:20

Fredriksson, thank you for talking

to us. Your scheme has cost 240

0:43:200:43:27

million euros over eight years, how

many rough sleepers has that helped

0:43:270:43:30

in that period of time?

It has been

managed to put it down with 1500

0:43:300:43:41

long-term home rough sleepers, so it

is a reduction of 37% of the

0:43:410:43:49

situation we started in 2008. So it

has been very successful from our

0:43:490:43:58

point of view and especially the

rough sleeping has been put down by

0:43:580:44:03

half. Also you have to take account

also of the other long-term

0:44:030:44:07

homeless, the people living in

institution is without a place to go

0:44:070:44:14

for example.

And it is as

straightforward as anybody sleeping

0:44:140:44:18

on the street, you put them straight

into permanent accommodation, that

0:44:180:44:22

is it? No bed and breakfast, no

temporary hostels, it is a home for

0:44:220:44:29

them for ever?

That is the point.

Direct accesses the most important

0:44:290:44:35

thing. You have to stress, it is not

only a question of the housing here

0:44:350:44:39

because they are in real problems,

many of them, addicted people,

0:44:390:44:51

unemployed etc and untrained. We

need specialised, tailored support

0:44:510:44:57

service, intensive support for the

people who manage because otherwise

0:44:570:45:02

they are back on the street again

and it's a combination of a very

0:45:020:45:05

good support and a very good

permanent house.

So when they are in

0:45:050:45:11

that house, you do what to help

them?

It starts from housing advice,

0:45:110:45:19

how we live in this house, then we

make a very personal plan for

0:45:190:45:23

everybody, going through their

background and history and their

0:45:230:45:30

present situation, and then their

own goals. It is very important they

0:45:300:45:33

have the choice to make together

with the personal support person or

0:45:330:45:40

their personal plan. Otherwise it is

not motivated and they are not

0:45:400:45:45

engaged with it.

Have you been able

to work out, Peter, that in terms of

0:45:450:45:51

the maths and money spent whether

more would have been spent if these

0:45:510:45:55

people have been left sleeping rough

in terms of the cost to society?

0:45:550:46:06

We build units, over 20 in the

country, in the biggest cities. So

0:46:060:46:11

we took three of them for research

and it showed that the average

0:46:110:46:22

saving for one person accommodated,

if you compare it with the homeless

0:46:220:46:27

situation was 15,000 euros yearly

for one person.

OK.

15,000. It's

0:46:270:46:35

really logical because you

understand that the persons which

0:46:350:46:39

are living outside, you also use

very much of the services. We

0:46:390:46:44

compared for example the hospital

services in Helsinki, it was 16

0:46:440:46:49

times more than the average person

using hospital services.

Really

0:46:490:46:56

interesting figures. Really stark

figures as well. Are there any down

0:46:560:47:01

sides.

Yes. Absolutely. But you can

manage them and you have to develop

0:47:010:47:11

the contact and the real terms where

we are going forward and it is a

0:47:110:47:18

question that how, which kind of

population can it be extended and I

0:47:180:47:22

don't think at the moment it's very

easy and it is unnecessary to go to

0:47:220:47:31

a larger broader population than the

ones which have the complex, most

0:47:310:47:37

high need of support services.

OK.

Back in the West Midlands Andy

0:47:370:47:43

Street, what more do you think the

Government should be doing when it

0:47:430:47:46

comes to helping people who are

homeless?

Well, what we are asking

0:47:460:47:49

the Government to do is to support

this brave initiative is the first

0:47:490:47:52

thing and we are hoping for an

outcome of that shortly, but the

0:47:520:47:56

Government has said and I say this

is a cross party piece, there has

0:47:560:48:01

been the homeless reduction Act

passed before the last general

0:48:010:48:03

election which comes into force next

year and it puts more requirements

0:48:030:48:07

on local authorities to respond to

this and they have just announced

0:48:070:48:11

additional funding for local

authorities to reach it the

0:48:110:48:15

commitments under the homeless

reduction Act.

0:48:150:48:17

Thank you very much.

Andy Street, West Midlands mayor and

0:48:170:48:24

Peter Frederick son, thank you.

0:48:240:48:33

Take it or leave it, that's what the

Government's critics say they are

0:48:330:48:39

being offered when it comes to the

Brexit negotiations. Our political

0:48:390:48:44

guru Norman Smith can fill us and

tell us more. It can be quite

0:48:440:48:50

technical this stuff on a day-to-day

basis. Give us the broad outline,

0:48:500:48:55

the big picture?

The EU withdrawal

Bill is a bumper Bill, more than 60

0:48:550:49:02

pages long. It is the legislative

equivalent of the Yellow Pages. The

0:49:020:49:07

Government say it is just a bit of

technical tidying up, designed to

0:49:070:49:12

bring all the thousands of EU rules

and regulations covering well

0:49:120:49:17

everything from the water we drink,

to the power of our vacuum cleaners

0:49:170:49:23

to our workplace rights into British

law. That's what it is designed to

0:49:230:49:29

do because otherwise, the fear is we

would disappear down the legal plug

0:49:290:49:35

hole because there would be no rules

and regulations to cover vast areas

0:49:350:49:40

of our every day life. When it comes

to Brexit nothing is simple and

0:49:400:49:45

already, there have been something

like 168 pages of amendments tabled

0:49:450:49:51

to this Bill and they include things

like making sure MPs have a

0:49:510:49:58

meaningful vote before Mrs May signs

on the dotted line for any

0:49:580:50:02

agreement. Also, guaranteeing that

there is a transition period of two

0:50:020:50:08

years or more before we quit the EU

and there could be enough Tory

0:50:080:50:15

rebels working with the opposition

to inflict potentially damaging

0:50:150:50:19

defeats on Mrs May. The stakes are

frankly of a Himalayan height and

0:50:190:50:27

Mrs May has in effect accused her

opponents of using the Bill to try

0:50:270:50:34

and thwart Brexit itself. The

question is - will they be able to

0:50:340:50:39

do it? I think all we know with

absolute certainty is we are facing

0:50:390:50:47

fraught votes, late night debates,

and a right old Parliamentary

0:50:470:50:52

ding-dong dragging on for weeks.

Can

I just chat with you, Norman, about

0:50:520:50:59

what the Brexit secretary offered

yesterday? This idea that MPs will

0:50:590:51:03

get a vote on the final Brexit deal,

but then when questioned by a

0:51:030:51:09

Brexiteer, look if we vote against

it, does that mean we don't leave on

0:51:090:51:14

29th March 2019, David Davis said

yes, we're still leaving. So what on

0:51:140:51:19

planet is that a meaningful vote?

Well, the Government would say, it's

0:51:190:51:24

a meaningful vote in the sense that

there is going to be a piece of

0:51:240:51:29

government legislation to mark this

historic moment of leaving the EU.

0:51:290:51:34

MPs will be able to scrutinise it

line by line in minute detail and if

0:51:340:51:41

they don't like it, they can reject

it, here is the almighty big BUT,

0:51:410:51:48

but if they do reject it, well

tough. We're leaving anyway and that

0:51:480:51:52

is why many of Mrs May's critics say

it is in effect putting a gun to

0:51:520:51:56

their head and say, "You vote for

this or we're going to leave without

0:51:560:52:01

any deal at all." Which they view as

a nightmare scenario. That is their

0:52:010:52:05

worst option. One other thing worth

pointing out Vic is the timing of

0:52:050:52:10

this. Normally to get a Bill through

Parliament, can take months, but if

0:52:100:52:14

this gets very difficult, and the

negotiations go right down to the

0:52:140:52:19

wire of the 30th March 2019, there

will be no time to debate and vote

0:52:190:52:24

on this Bill before we leave. In

other words we could end up in a

0:52:240:52:28

situation of leaving, and then

having a debate about leaving and

0:52:280:52:32

that too Mrs May's critics are

unhappy about.

Right. OK. So what

0:52:320:52:37

can MPs do now if they are not

happy?

Well, I think the likelihood

0:52:370:52:42

we are going to face what Sir Alex

Ferguson called squeaky bum time!

0:52:420:52:47

Because it is clear that there are

probably around a dozen Tories who

0:52:470:52:53

are deeply unhappy with Mrs May's

plans and if they join with the

0:52:530:52:59

opposition parties, it's possible

that on some of the key votes, Mrs

0:52:590:53:04

May could be defeated. Now, that

raises the stakes even further

0:53:040:53:08

because some Tory MPs are saying

look, if the Government is defeated

0:53:080:53:15

on these absolutely key votes, that

amounts really to a vote of no

0:53:150:53:20

confidence in the Government because

Brexit is so central to what Mrs May

0:53:200:53:25

is trying to do. So if Tory rebels

help to defeat the Government it

0:53:250:53:29

could bring down the Government,

pave the way for a general election,

0:53:290:53:33

and who knows, possibly a Jeremy

Corbyn government. Now, in a I wa,

0:53:330:53:36

that's just sort of strong arm

tactics to try and crank up the

0:53:360:53:39

pressure on Tory rebels, but it

gives you a sense of how this could

0:53:390:53:43

escalate and as I say, just how high

the stakes are.

0:53:430:53:47

Thank you very much, Norman.

Let's talk to a Labour MP who voted

0:53:470:53:52

Remain. His name is Pat McFadden.

Would you like that scenario, the

0:53:520:53:57

defeat for Theresa May precipitating

a vote of no confidence and then a

0:53:570:54:00

general election?

I think listening

to Norman, he has got his finger on

0:54:000:54:06

the pulse probably more than any

other journalist, but you get the

0:54:060:54:09

impression that this is all a sort

of Parliamentary tussle, you know,

0:54:090:54:14

the image I had in my mind ten

people involved, it is a big bun

0:54:140:54:19

fight and actually we need to take a

step back from all of that. All of

0:54:190:54:25

that that Norman just summarised

reflects the new Parliamentary

0:54:250:54:28

arithmetic after the general

election. To me the more important

0:54:280:54:30

question is what happens to us in

the future economically when we

0:54:300:54:34

leave the EU? And what this is

really all about is Parliament

0:54:340:54:40

trying to ensure it has a meaningful

say on those big questions.

If the

0:54:400:54:46

by-product that Theresa May ends up

being defeated on various

0:54:460:54:53

amendments, and it precipitating a

general election, you would be

0:54:530:54:55

happy?

I would rather than a Labour

Government rather than a

0:54:550:54:58

Conservative Government. This is

about we were told during the

0:54:580:55:03

referendum we would be leaving the

EU to take back control to our own

0:55:030:55:07

Parliament and the Government has

been pretty reluctant to give

0:55:070:55:11

Parliament any meaningful say and

that's what...

You have got it now,

0:55:110:55:14

haven't you?

Well...

Or are you not

reassured by what David Davis said?

0:55:140:55:20

What defines a meaningful say, to me

it is the ability to say to the

0:55:200:55:24

government, we don't like everything

in this deal. We don't like the term

0:55:240:55:27

of this deal. We would like you to

try and change this part or that

0:55:270:55:30

part, so you need to have it in good

enough time to have a meaningful

0:55:300:55:35

input. If it is between here is what

we managed to negotiate, or no deal

0:55:350:55:39

at all, which we all know would be a

Dayser for our economy, that isn't

0:55:390:55:44

really a meaningful say, that is a

gun to people's heads really. So, I

0:55:440:55:49

think this issue of how Parliament

gets a meaningful say over this will

0:55:490:55:57

continue even after the Secretary of

State's announcement yesterday.

0:55:570:55:59

Right, OK. I mean, do you really see

this going to the wire?

Well...

In

0:55:590:56:05

the final days and hours up to 29th

March at 11pm?

Let's begin with what

0:56:050:56:11

the Government have said they want

to achieve. I'm on the Brexit Select

0:56:110:56:15

Committee that looks at all this

week in and week out in Parliament

0:56:150:56:19

and the Secretary of State has told

us that his ambition is to have the

0:56:190:56:25

withdrawal deal, and transitional

arrangement which is basically the

0:56:250:56:28

status quo without a say over the

rules...

You hope.

Well, that's the

0:56:280:56:32

only transition we will be offered

by the EU.

Right.

And the basically

0:56:320:56:38

the outline of the future

arrangements all wrapped up by next

0:56:380:56:41

year. That's the Government's policy

aim. So I want to see if they manage

0:56:410:56:46

to achieve all that. We went to

Brussels last week, the Brexit

0:56:460:56:50

committee and we met with the key

negotiators on the EU side and two

0:56:500:56:56

things struck me. One was I expect

the Government to offer more money

0:56:560:57:02

between now and this crunch December

meeting in a few weeks' time. I

0:57:020:57:06

think...

How much more? £20 billion

is on the table at the minute?

It is

0:57:060:57:12

hard for me to put a figure on it,

but I think if the Government wants

0:57:120:57:16

to get to the next phase which I

want to get to, they are probably

0:57:160:57:20

likely to offer more money, but

that's not actually the most

0:57:200:57:24

difficult part, even though it is a

big sum of money. The most difficult

0:57:240:57:27

part is what is our future

relationship with the EU going to

0:57:270:57:31

be? And the impression I got last

week was, that's less of a

0:57:310:57:35

negotiation and more of a pretty

simple decision for us. We can

0:57:350:57:41

either remain part of the whole

single market system with all the

0:57:410:57:44

market access that gives us or we

can be outside that and there isn't

0:57:440:57:52

really, the Government, I think, is

trying to give the impression that

0:57:520:57:56

there is a half-way house between

those two and I think we should

0:57:560:57:59

think of phase two as this, there is

might be some details to negotiate,

0:57:590:58:02

but in the main, it's not so much a

negotiation, as a choice for the

0:58:020:58:05

country.

Can I just check with you

as a Labour MP as a Remainer, once

0:58:050:58:10

we move to the transitional period,

which implies a bridge to a final

0:58:100:58:18

Brexit deal...

Yes.

Would you be

happy to remain in that transition,

0:58:180:58:23

ie with the current arrangements

we've got now?

It's the only

0:58:230:58:26

transition deal we will be offered.

No, no, I mean forever?

Oh forever.

0:58:260:58:31

Well, the disadvantage of...

No, no,

yes or no? Do you want to stay in

0:58:310:58:36

transition permanently?

No, I don't

want to stay in transition

0:58:360:58:39

permanently, because it is supposed

to be a bridge from A to B.

But as a

0:58:390:58:44

Remainor that would suit you surely?

You have got to calculate what the

0:58:440:58:47

economic damage is here. The

disadvantage of the transition over

0:58:470:58:52

the current status is we don't have

a say over the rules. And that was

0:58:520:58:57

also made clear to us when we went

last week.

But you would be in the

0:58:570:59:01

single market which you really want?

We would be in the single market

0:59:010:59:04

which is something that I think is

very important. We would still have

0:59:040:59:07

access to all the rights that that

gives us. We would still be in the

0:59:070:59:11

customs union. Basically everything

would be the same except we wouldn't

0:59:110:59:17

have a seat at the table deciding

the rules. That's the only

0:59:170:59:21

transition deal that the EU will

offer us.

OK. Thank you. Thank you

0:59:210:59:26

very much, Pat McFadden who is a

Labour MP and a Remainor. We will

0:59:260:59:30

talk to a Conservative MP obviously

in the next hour. Right, the

0:59:300:59:34

weather. Here is Lucy.

0:59:340:59:37

Good morning.

A less cool day on the way after a

0:59:380:59:42

chilly start to the week. We have

milder temperatures, but more in the

0:59:420:59:45

way of cloud. There have been some

exceptions to that though. The best

0:59:450:59:50

of the brightness certainly in the

south and the east of Scotland and a

0:59:500:59:53

few breaks in that cloud like this

photo sent in by a Weather Watcher

0:59:530:59:57

in Cheshire. Some blue skies just

poking through there. But further

0:59:571:00:01

south, this has been more the order

of the day. A little bit more in the

1:00:011:00:05

way of cloud. This photo sent in

from Twickenham in Greater London.

1:00:051:00:09

Through the day today then the best

of the brightness certainly across

1:00:091:00:12

Scotland. Just feeding into the

north-east of England and the far

1:00:121:00:16

north of Northern Ireland as well. A

scattering of heavy showers in the

1:00:161:00:23

far north that and there could be

hail in there. For much of central,

1:00:231:00:27

southern England and Wales, there

will be plenty of cloud. Mostly dry.

1:00:271:00:31

A few outbreaks of cloud and drizzle

where the cloud becomes thick enough

1:00:311:00:34

and a few breaks in the cloud here

and there. Temperatures just in the

1:00:341:00:38

double figures. Cloudy for Northern

Ireland. Any brightness in the north

1:00:381:00:43

and the clearer skies means that it

is a little bit cooler for Scotland

1:00:431:00:48

and some breeze, the wind picking up

with the fairly heavy showers.

1:00:481:00:52

Through tonight then, the showers in

the north will ease. We will hold on

1:00:521:00:56

to the clearer skies across Scotland

and into Northern Ireland and

1:00:561:01:00

northern England. Clouder in the

south with rain and drizzle. The

1:01:001:01:03

potential to see a few dense patches

of fog developing through tonight.

1:01:031:01:09

How quickly they will lift tomorrow,

a bit of uncertainty, but it looks

1:01:091:01:13

like we will still see the best of

the brightness in the north.

1:01:131:01:18

Northern Ireland into Scotland and

northern England and perhaps just

1:01:181:01:20

into the far North of Wales seeing

the brighter conditions tomorrow. It

1:01:201:01:24

will turn cloudier into the

afternoon later for north and west

1:01:241:01:28

Scotland and some rain pushing in as

well.

1:01:281:01:31

For much of central southern England

and Wales, it will be cloudy with

1:01:311:01:35

rain and drizzle. Again temperatures

in the double figures. We could see

1:01:351:01:40

a few brighter intervals developing

like we have seen today.

1:01:401:01:44

Thursday, this cold front sinks

south and east ward. Behind it, it

1:01:441:01:47

is starting to see something

brighter. Temperatures again on

1:01:471:01:52

Thursday staying in the double

figures in the south and that takes

1:01:521:01:56

us into Friday where we will see the

return to something cooler. More in

1:01:561:02:00

the way of brightness. The chance of

one or two showers in the north.

1:02:001:02:04

Turning breezier as well. And

feeling noticeably fresher.

1:02:041:02:12

Thanks, Lucy.

1:02:121:02:16

Hello it's Tuesday, it's ten

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:02:181:02:20

Our top story this morning:

it's another crucial day

1:02:201:02:22

in the Brexit countdown.

1:02:221:02:27

With this bill, it is take it or

leave it time because if they don't

1:02:271:02:33

like it, tough. We will still leave

the EU without any sort of deal and

1:02:331:02:42

that is nightmare land for

Remainers.

1:02:421:02:47

We'll bring you all the details.

1:02:471:02:48

A chef has told this programme

she was suspended from work

1:02:481:02:51

at a Premier Inn the day

after she complained

1:02:511:02:53

of sexual harassment.

1:02:531:02:54

We'll hear from woman

concerned and an employment

1:02:541:02:56

lawyer later this hour.

1:02:561:02:57

And local councils are using

to bailiffs to recover

1:02:571:02:59

money they are owed.

1:02:591:03:06

Let me know your own experiences

this morning.

1:03:061:03:15

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

1:03:151:03:18

Inflation - the rate of increase

in prices for goods and services -

1:03:181:03:21

remained unchanged at 3% in October.

1:03:211:03:22

The rate remains at a five-year high

with rising food prices offset

1:03:221:03:25

by a fall in the cost of fuel,

according to the Office

1:03:251:03:28

for National Statistics.

1:03:281:03:33

MPs will today begin debating a key

piece of Brexit legislation,

1:03:331:03:35

the EU withdrawal bill.

1:03:351:03:36

It will help turn European laws

into UK ones but opponents including

1:03:361:03:39

Tory rebels have tabled

scores of amendments.

1:03:391:03:43

Meanwhile a Parliamentary report

is warning a failure to complete

1:03:431:03:45

the introduction of a new customs

system by the date of Brexit in 2019

1:03:451:03:49

would be "catastrophic".

1:03:491:03:54

A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

1:03:541:03:57

programme that she feels

disappointed, despite

1:03:571:03:58

receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House.

1:03:581:04:01

Andrea Leadsom called Lisa Wade -

who's waived her right

1:04:011:04:04

to anonymity - last night,

several months after the incident

1:04:041:04:06

was first reported to her.

1:04:061:04:11

Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

1:04:111:04:14

because of an ongoing legal case.

1:04:141:04:19

Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

1:04:191:04:22

committed widespread abuses

during what they call 'a campaign

1:04:221:04:24

of ethnic cleansing' against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

1:04:241:04:26

The organisation said

Government forces have

1:04:261:04:28

committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

1:04:281:04:29

detention, and arson.

1:04:291:04:33

More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

1:04:331:04:35

in the north of the country.

1:04:351:04:42

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30.

1:04:421:04:47

A couple of messages about the

homeless scheme in Finland. With

1:04:471:04:52

rough sleepers they are immediately

placing them in permanent

1:04:521:04:57

accommodation, so a flat permanently

for ever. No hostels, bed and

1:04:571:05:03

breakfast, nothing like that, and

they said it is saving them money.

1:05:031:05:07

It is a big outlay but in the end it

saves money society. "Don't Think

1:05:071:05:16

this Government would do the same

here, they are callously making the

1:05:161:05:19

public worse off with Universal

Credit" says Mike. David, "It goes

1:05:191:05:28

to show a more caring socialist

outlook actually saves the Treasury

1:05:281:05:34

money in the long and helps

individuals rebuild their lives who

1:05:341:05:39

in turn provide more income to the

Treasury. Take note please,

1:05:391:05:45

government".

1:05:451:05:51

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning.

1:05:511:05:56

Now the sport. Italy have failed to

qualify for the World Cup for the

1:05:561:06:01

first time since 1958. Even the

veteran keeper was sent into the

1:06:011:06:11

attack in injury time. One newspaper

described the result as an

1:06:111:06:14

apocalypse. Others want to replace

the manager who hasn't officially

1:06:141:06:20

resigned yet.

Wales centre Jonathan Davies will

1:06:201:06:28

miss the Six Nations due to a foot

injury. He needs surgery and that

1:06:281:06:34

means his domestic season for

Scarlets may also be over. It's a

1:06:341:06:38

real blow, he was the Lions player

of the series this year. Jamie

1:06:381:06:43

Roberts has been added to the Wales

squad along with Scott Andrews as

1:06:431:06:48

cover.

Moeen Ali has recovered from side

1:06:481:06:51

strain so will play against

Australia, after getting to know

1:06:511:06:55

some of the local wildlife. Ali was

named in the team for the final warm

1:06:551:07:01

up match which starts tomorrow.

Commonwealth champion Dan Keatings

1:07:011:07:05

says there is a very real culture of

fear within British gymnastics after

1:07:051:07:09

some coaches claimed there was

appalling leadership at the

1:07:091:07:13

governing body. He said he

experienced bullying and

1:07:131:07:17

manipulation during his career as an

athlete. British gymnastics have

1:07:171:07:22

encouraged anyone with concerns to

come forward.

1:07:221:07:25

And Rafael Nadal has pulled out of

the world tour finals with a knee

1:07:251:07:30

injury after losing to David Goffin.

He is the latest player to say that

1:07:301:07:39

is it for 2017, I will be back next

year.

1:07:391:07:48

Thank you. Let's get more on our

latest story. Let's speak to a

1:07:481:08:00

Conservative MP who voted to leave

the European Union, Suella

1:08:001:08:09

Fernandes.

1:08:091:08:13

Pat McFadden, a Labour MP

who voted to Remain.

1:08:131:08:15

And the Belgian MEP

Philippe Lamberts, who is a key

1:08:151:08:17

member of the European Parliament

Brexit Steering Group.

1:08:171:08:19

How do you view this?

I find the

British government is conducting the

1:08:191:08:24

negotiation in a reckless way. The

clock is ticking. Already

1:08:241:08:31

negotiating a deal within two years

is a considerable challenge but we

1:08:311:08:36

have lost time. You might say she

delivered a grand speech in Florence

1:08:361:08:40

but we did not see any of the

intention that she declared

1:08:401:08:48

translated into proposition. It is

like delaying tactics, I don't know

1:08:481:08:52

how to call that but the things that

worry me the most is the situation

1:08:521:08:57

in Ireland. There is an inherent

contradiction by the Government

1:08:571:09:01

saying on the one hand we want to

respect the Good Friday Agreement

1:09:011:09:04

and on the other hand take the UK

out of the customs union, the single

1:09:041:09:10

market and jurisdiction of the ECJ.

That creates a border and on the

1:09:101:09:15

other hand you say you don't want a

border. That contradiction is

1:09:151:09:20

nowhere near being resolved by the

British government so we have yet to

1:09:201:09:25

see a proposal that could fly. I

don't think there is one so we need

1:09:251:09:30

to solve that contradiction. I would

say the money is the least difficult

1:09:301:09:34

of all the issues and we are inching

towards a deal on citizens rights.

1:09:341:09:41

There are number of points there.

Just briefly on the money, how much

1:09:411:09:46

is it you want?

You know what, I

don't have any clue as to the

1:09:461:09:51

amount. What I want is that the

financial obligations that have been

1:09:511:09:57

subscribed by the UK be honoured. We

don't know how much at the moment

1:09:571:10:01

because part of it is contingent. If

you provide guarantees and they are

1:10:011:10:06

not needed, the money is not needed.

Also we have to be honest, we want

1:10:061:10:11

the UK to honour its liabilities but

we have to deduct the amount of

1:10:111:10:19

assets. As long as we agree on the

baseline of the principles, I would

1:10:191:10:24

go as far as saying let the Nordic

company do the reckoning and say how

1:10:241:10:29

much is due by when.

You do have an

idea about the figure because you

1:10:291:10:35

know 20 billion is not enough, but

anyway let me bring in a

1:10:351:10:38

Conservative MP, Suella Fernandes.

Conservative government is being

1:10:381:10:46

reckless because the clock is

ticking, and two the contradiction

1:10:461:10:51

from Mrs May on the border. Start

with the reckless point, how do you

1:10:511:10:56

plead?

Not guilty. Since the

Florence speech, the negotiating

1:10:561:11:04

team have made a lot of progress on

EU citizens. We are now very close

1:11:041:11:10

to an agreement. The Prime Minister

has made it very clear.

And Philippe

1:11:101:11:18

Lamberts has acknowledged that, what

about the rest of it?

On Northern

1:11:181:11:24

Ireland I think again there has been

considerable agreement on the

1:11:241:11:27

principles, for example that we want

cooperation between the north and

1:11:271:11:32

south, that the Common travel area

should continue to operate, and the

1:11:321:11:37

principles of the Belfast agreement

remains sound. I think that's all

1:11:371:11:41

considerable progress and we need to

make sure there is that soft border

1:11:411:11:47

between Northern Ireland...

But you

cannot have that, we have just

1:11:471:11:50

heard, with all of the other things

you want.

I disagree.

It is

1:11:501:12:01

either/or.

I don't think a solution

is impossible.

1:12:011:12:11

I don't think a solution

is impossible.

1:12:111:12:17

Philippe Lamberts?

Nice words, but

everybody wants those things, the

1:12:171:12:28

problem is you cannot have the Good

Friday Agreement together with the

1:12:281:12:30

border. It is either/or. Or we have

to place the border elsewhere. Is

1:12:301:12:38

there preparedness to consider that?

I don't know but we need more than

1:12:381:12:46

words, we need concrete proposals as

to how to make this work and that

1:12:461:12:50

contradiction I believe cannot be

resolved.

Suella Fernandes?

I think

1:12:501:12:59

that is a very pessimistic view.

What is the concrete proposal?

How

1:12:591:13:07

do we do this?

It has to be the case

because our position and

1:13:071:13:15

relationship with Ireland and

Northern Ireland is very important,

1:13:151:13:17

we need to make sure that continues.

Sure, we know all of that, sorry,

1:13:171:13:25

what are the practical things that

you would implement that would make

1:13:251:13:31

that work?

It is all there. The

Common travel area sets out how this

1:13:311:13:36

works already and it's about moving

forward...

For people but not for

1:13:361:13:41

goods.

The ball is in the EU's court

to agree to those principles so we

1:13:411:13:49

can move on and get on to talking

about trade. We want a free trade

1:13:491:13:54

agreement with the EU so we can

carry on frictionless trade.

Let me

1:13:541:13:59

go back to Philippe Lamberts. On the

border, let's just have the Common

1:13:591:14:08

travel area?

Sorry but this is not

the issue, the Common travel area is

1:14:081:14:12

for people. If you are getting out

of the single market, goods will

1:14:121:14:17

need to be controlled so there will

be a physical border and you need to

1:14:171:14:22

place it somewhere, so your choice,

say where it will be placed. The

1:14:221:14:27

Good Friday Agreement says no border

between the two parts of the island,

1:14:271:14:32

period.

Suella Fernandes?

No hard

border, that is what we want to

1:14:321:14:42

agree with the EU and it is up to

the EU to come back and agree those

1:14:421:14:46

terms.

Come on! You need to control

goods, right?

We can talk about

1:14:461:14:55

trading agreement which is really

what both parties are there for.

1:14:551:14:59

Millions of people in Germany,

France and Belgium depend on British

1:14:591:15:03

custom when it comes to trading. We

are one of the biggest customers in

1:15:031:15:08

the EU and therefore I think it's a

mutually beneficial thing for both

1:15:081:15:15

parties to work positively to reach

an agreement. That's what I want,

1:15:151:15:19

having campaigned to leave the EU,

that is what Theresa May and the

1:15:191:15:24

British people want.

I think there

is a slight contradiction, by

1:15:241:15:29

wishing to a very close relationship

with the 27 member states and saying

1:15:291:15:33

we want to wave goodbye to them.

There is again a discrepancy here

1:15:331:15:38

but again I believe that to the MPs.

I feel like we may be going round in

1:15:381:15:43

circles, but thank you.

1:15:431:15:52

Did I really say the tick is

clocking? Did I really say that? You

1:15:521:15:57

know what I mean so it doesn't

really matter!

1:15:571:16:02

A chef has told this programme

she was suspended from work

1:16:031:16:05

at a Premier Inn the day

after she complained

1:16:051:16:08

of sexual harassment.

1:16:081:16:16

Martha Hammock was the only

female chef at her branch

1:16:161:16:18

of the budget hotel,

says her colleague sent her messages

1:16:181:16:20

with sexual content and innuendo.

1:16:201:16:22

Premier Inn deny that's

why she was suspended.

1:16:221:16:28

Let's talk with Martha Hammock

and also Harini Iyengar

1:16:281:16:30

who is an employment barrister.

1:16:301:16:32

Thank you very much for coming on

the programme. I wonder that Martha

1:16:321:16:38

Hammock if you could tell us the

nature of the messages that you were

1:16:381:16:42

sent.

It started off with a

conversation in a kitchen about his

1:16:421:16:51

penis and the size of it and then he

would send me a picture of a bottle

1:16:511:16:54

which was in the shape of a penis

and said this is what it looks like.

1:16:541:16:59

I just ignored it and I didn't want

to engage in and encourage that kind

1:16:591:17:04

of conversation. I also got a

whatsapp message of two scantily

1:17:041:17:11

clad women and then he asked me who

should I F first? Of these women.

1:17:111:17:20

Again I just didn't respond. That's

the type of messages I was getting

1:17:201:17:23

from him.

How did they make you feel

those messages?

It is humiliating

1:17:231:17:33

and it's shocking and the person I

am speaking about is younger than me

1:17:331:17:37

so I felt it quite disrespectful as

well.

You were the only female chef

1:17:371:17:43

working alongside five male chefs.

Generally, how was the working

1:17:431:17:46

environment?

When we're all

together, it's OK. But if you look

1:17:461:17:55

at how the shift pattern is set-up,

there is a lot of unfairness. I

1:17:551:18:01

often would work on my own and also

when I do work, I'm only given an

1:18:011:18:07

hour to prep for dinner. When it's

the men working together, it's very

1:18:071:18:11

much a friendship type thing and

they come in and they have got two

1:18:111:18:16

hours to prep. It is so unfair. I

raised those issues and I seemed to

1:18:161:18:21

be getting nowhere.

Two weeks later

you say you got a whatsapp message

1:18:211:18:25

which told you couldn't be part of

the work whatsapp group because you

1:18:251:18:29

were a woman. You say that that

whatsapp group messaging system was

1:18:291:18:37

used to send out work notices and

key info. What do you think was

1:18:371:18:45

going on?

I was discussed as a

person and they didn't want to

1:18:451:18:48

include me, but that's just me

suspecting, but it's also very

1:18:481:18:52

unprofessional. There was no reason

why I shouldn't be part of the team.

1:18:521:18:55

I am part of the team.

In the end

you filed a grievance about

1:18:551:19:01

harassment...

Yes.

And

discrimination.

Yes.

But the

1:19:011:19:07

organisation decided not to pursue

the discrimination side of things.

1:19:071:19:13

And you wrote to head office in

November, at the start of November,

1:19:131:19:17

didn't you?

I did, yes.

You raised

again because everything was

1:19:171:19:24

emerging sexual har hasment issues

from Hollywood and you thought I am

1:19:241:19:28

going to raise this? What happened

the next day.

I came in and did

1:19:281:19:32

breakfast and finished breakfast and

I was called into the office. I went

1:19:321:19:37

to the office and there was a

strange person and a team of people

1:19:371:19:41

ready to interview. I was accused of

four things. I was in the meeting

1:19:411:19:46

for five hours and at the end of the

five hours he dismissed three of the

1:19:461:19:52

things that I was supposed to have

done and suspended me and the

1:19:521:19:55

language I was suspended for my own

safety and to protect me.

You say

1:19:551:19:59

those words were actually used?

Absolutely and also, put in the

1:19:591:20:02

report. So I mean it was just, I was

so shocked. I was just so emotional.

1:20:021:20:11

Premier Inn say that that suspension

had nothing to do with your

1:20:111:20:17

reporting of the harassment, that it

was to do with conduct at work. They

1:20:171:20:21

gave examples, you left work early

one night. You failed to sign your

1:20:211:20:25

hotel keys on one occasion, sign

them in, failed to fill in a time

1:20:251:20:29

sheet one evening and they say that

they had planned to suspend you

1:20:291:20:34

before they got your complaint at

head office about harassment this

1:20:341:20:37

month. They do say they are

investigating the sexual harassment.

1:20:371:20:42

What effect is it having on you

being suspended on full pay?

I mean,

1:20:421:20:50

it's very hurtful. I feel very

alone. I feel ostracised from my

1:20:501:20:57

team. I feel like I have been told

I'm guilty even though I'm not, it's

1:20:571:21:02

not been concluded. It's just very

hurtful to me. I was employee of the

1:21:021:21:09

quarter the first time the hotel was

opened. So my performance has never

1:21:091:21:19

been in question. The thing about

pumpking in, the vast majority of

1:21:191:21:24

people don't punch in because they

don't have punch in keys.

The hotel

1:21:241:21:29

say the two things are unrelated,

that's possible?

It is possible, but

1:21:291:21:33

as an employment lawyer I would say,

based on that account of what Martha

1:21:331:21:40

is supposed to have done, it is hard

to see why you need to suspend

1:21:401:21:45

someone for that, if it is

clocking-in offences, it is hard to

1:21:451:21:49

understand why you can't investigate

that if someone is at work and if

1:21:491:21:52

someone complained to head office of

sexual harassment of this type, it

1:21:521:21:55

is an odd way of dealing with things

and just, it's, you know, without

1:21:551:22:00

knowing the other side of the story,

you can say it's not good practise

1:22:001:22:03

to upset the staff member by dealing

with the disciplinary allegation

1:22:031:22:07

before you have dealt with the prior

sexual harassment allegation.

What

1:22:071:22:12

is the law around what needs to

happen when someone reports

1:22:121:22:16

harassment at work?

Well, if you

don't deal with harassment reports

1:22:161:22:20

properly, that can be an act of sex

discrimination which is subjecting

1:22:201:22:26

sub ch someone to a detriment if

they are a woman. If it is a woman

1:22:261:22:30

complaining about sexual harassment

and it is not taken seriously that

1:22:301:22:34

can be unfavourable treatment for

her for being a woman. If there is a

1:22:341:22:38

disciplinary policy and a grievance

policy then that ought to be

1:22:381:22:41

followed and I think Premier Inn is

a big business and I am assuming

1:22:411:22:45

they have got a policy on it and the

time scales ought to be kept to and

1:22:451:22:52

if there are delays you ought to be

keeping in touch with the person

1:22:521:22:55

that complained and reassuring them

that action is being taken and their

1:22:551:22:59

concerns are being looked into.

Have

you ever come across claims that

1:22:591:23:02

somebody who has complained about

sexual harassment has subsequently

1:23:021:23:06

been suspended?

Unfortunately, yes.

I think there is some research by

1:23:061:23:12

the TUC last year showing that a lot

of women have reported to the TUC

1:23:121:23:16

when they tried to complain about

sexual harassment they have been

1:23:161:23:21

treated worse. Unfortunately

Martha's experience isn't unique,

1:23:211:23:25

but if you were advising a business

who say we are concerned about

1:23:251:23:29

disciplinary allegations and they

mention to you that that person had

1:23:291:23:33

previously complained of sexual

harassment, as a lawyer you would be

1:23:331:23:37

wanting to say think twice do you

really need to suspend this person

1:23:371:23:42

and what have you been doing about

the allegations.

Rachel on Facebook

1:23:421:23:47

says, "My daughter was sacked after

her boss sent her body photos. They

1:23:471:23:52

came to our house demanding she

deleted all evidence." Thank you

1:23:521:23:56

very much for talking to us.

1:23:561:24:01

We invited Premier Inn to come

onto the programme today,

1:24:011:24:03

but they weren't available

and instead told us,

1:24:031:24:06

"The decision to suspend Martha

is entirely unrelated

1:24:061:24:08

to the sexual harassment complaint.

1:24:081:24:10

We took the decision to suspend

Martha on full pay as part

1:24:101:24:13

of an ongoing investigation

into her own conduct at work

1:24:131:24:15

and an apparent breakdown

in the working relationship

1:24:151:24:18

between her and the company.

1:24:181:24:28

Rohingya Muslim women and have been

subjected to widespread rape as part

1:24:291:24:32

of a campaign of ethnic cleansing

by Myanmar's security forces -

1:24:321:24:35

that's what a Human Rights Watch

report will warn later this week.

1:24:351:24:38

Many women also described

witnessing the murders

1:24:381:24:41

of their young children,

spouses, and parents.

1:24:411:24:48

Rohingya Muslims make up a minority

in Myanmar, or Burma,

1:24:481:24:51

which is a predominantly

Muslim country.

1:24:511:24:52

Since unrest in the Rakhine

province where they live

1:24:521:25:01

in the north of the country,

more than 500,000 have fled

1:25:011:25:04

a military offensive.

1:25:041:25:05

Theresa May says the actions

of the military "looked

1:25:051:25:07

like ethnic cleansing".

1:25:071:25:08

Newsnight's Gabriel Gatehouse has

made a deeply disturbing film

1:25:081:25:12

on some of the testimony

of the refugees.

1:25:121:25:20

Following discussion -

will refer to extreme violence,

1:25:201:25:25

some of it sexual which you may not

want children to watch.

1:25:251:25:30

Anourha showed us where she and

others swam across the river,

1:25:491:25:51

at a point downstream

where it was narrow enough to cross.

1:25:511:25:56

From a hill on the opposite bank,

they watched the horror unfold.

1:25:561:26:06

The violence began five days before

the massacre at Tula Toli,

1:26:441:26:48

on 25th August, when

members of a Rohingya

1:26:481:26:57

militant group attacked

the number of police posts

1:26:571:26:58

inside Myanmar, killing 12.

1:26:581:27:00

In response, the Burmese military

began what they call

1:27:001:27:02

clearance operations.

1:27:021:27:03

Boats filled with refugees have

been coming ever since.

1:27:031:27:09

By late morning on 30th

August, on the river bank

1:27:091:27:11

at Tula Toli, dozens of people had

already been murdered,

1:27:111:27:14

but it wasn't over yet.

1:27:141:27:17

Some villagers had escaped

by swimming across the river,

1:27:171:27:23

but many remained behind,

especially younger women

1:27:231:27:25

who had been separated

from the rest by the soldiers.

1:27:251:27:29

Those who survived endured an ordeal

of almost unimaginable horror.

1:27:291:27:35

The Burmese government doesn't

regard the Rohingya Muslims

1:28:101:28:12

as citizens of Myanmar.

1:28:121:28:18

Stuck in the camps in Bangladesh,

without official status,

1:28:181:28:20

it will be hard for them to return

home, even if they felt

1:28:201:28:23

it was safe to do so.

1:28:231:28:33

Let's talk to Anita who has family

in roe hind ga and she fled the

1:28:331:28:39

country as a child. And Sky Wheeler

from Human Rights Watch. They have

1:28:391:28:47

been investigating rapes. Francis

from the Red Cross. Anita, we have

1:28:471:28:56

just heard some really, really

upsetting testimony from women in

1:28:561:29:03

particular who are being abused,

raped, tortured, can you tell us

1:29:031:29:07

about the current situation with

your own family?

I still have family

1:29:071:29:15

in Rakhine state. I have my aunt,

four cousins from my maternal side.

1:29:151:29:22

One of my entire family, from the

paternal side, the aunt, including

1:29:221:29:28

her children, they were trying to

flee Rakhine state. They were in the

1:29:281:29:33

boat. The boat was hit by the Navy

or the military and the entire

1:29:331:29:39

family side and the situation with

my maternal aunts and cousins is

1:29:391:29:44

that they are living under constant

fear. They are under fear that they

1:29:441:29:49

might not live in the coming hours,

coming days. The situation is so

1:29:491:29:55

dire that they even cannot go out.

If they are trying to go out, have

1:29:551:30:01

access to food, people beat them up

and they don't have proper access to

1:30:011:30:09

like food etcetera because the price

has gone also very high. So they

1:30:091:30:12

could not manage to buy even food

and if the Rakhine people are being

1:30:121:30:19

business with them, business means

buying and selling food, these are

1:30:191:30:22

the kind of people that are selling

the food are being harassed by their

1:30:221:30:26

own community. So literally people

who are staying there in, the roe

1:30:261:30:31

hind gas are being either they are

being killed or harassed or starved

1:30:311:30:36

to death.

Skye Wheeler, you have

spoken to a number of Rohingya

1:30:361:30:57

women, what did they tell you?

Two

main findings, first of all

1:30:571:31:03

widespread rape is so not just in

the massacres like the one discussed

1:31:031:31:09

earlier in this segment, but in many

different villages widespread rape

1:31:091:31:13

was used as a tool of ethnic

cleansing. It was one of the ways

1:31:131:31:18

the Burmese military forced people

to flee and have traumatised women

1:31:181:31:23

and girls so they are too afraid to

go back home. Something else we

1:31:231:31:28

found was how absolutely horrible,

brutal and humiliating the rapes

1:31:281:31:35

were. Almost all of the rape we

documented work gang rapes, often as

1:31:351:31:43

many as ten perpetrators, often

children still in the room. Many of

1:31:431:31:48

the women and girls we have spoken

to work a on their breasts, hit or

1:31:481:31:56

kicked during the rapes. They took

place as women were trying to flee

1:31:561:32:01

and in some cases women and girls

were gathered together by security

1:32:011:32:08

forces and raped in gangs. Truly

horrific and deeply traumatising and

1:32:081:32:13

painful. Not only the immediate pain

of the rape but then having to walk

1:32:131:32:19

for days on very serious genital

injuries. Then of course the

1:32:191:32:23

emotional pain. The women and girls

I interviewed were victims of ethnic

1:32:231:32:32

cleansing, not just rape. Many had

seen husbands taken away,

1:32:321:32:37

excruciating sadness and despair.

What you have described is

1:32:371:32:43

grotesque, absolutely horrific. When

you say rape is being used as a tool

1:32:431:32:48

for ethnic cleansing, what do you

mean?

Rape is terrifying, right? It

1:32:481:32:56

terrifies whole communities, it

attacks the individual but it's also

1:32:561:33:00

a way of attacking a whole community

and humiliating a whole community.

1:33:001:33:06

Rape also... It is important to

understand it doesn't just happen in

1:33:061:33:10

the moment of the rape. A woman is

raped, she is terrified and fleas,

1:33:101:33:17

others hear about it, they are

terrified and they flee. It also

1:33:171:33:23

rape as a long-term traumatising

effect, so women and girls not only

1:33:231:33:27

have been attacked but they have

been psychologically and mentally

1:33:271:33:32

traumatised. The thought of going

back is terrifying. It is a highly

1:33:321:33:38

effective way of conducting ethnic

cleansing.

Getting people out of an

1:33:381:33:43

area, yes. Francis, I wonder if you

could explain to our audience the

1:33:431:33:50

conditions in some of the refugee

camps right now.

Victoria, the

1:33:501:33:57

conditions are very harsh for these

hundreds of thousands of people who

1:33:571:34:00

have fled to Bangladesh from

Myanmar. It is one of the most

1:34:001:34:09

complex humanitarian crises we have

dealt with in recent times. People

1:34:091:34:14

are in desperate need of proper

shelter. They are living really

1:34:141:34:18

under nothing more than plastic

sheeting and bamboo in many cases.

1:34:181:34:24

We have huge challenges with

providing clean drinking water to

1:34:241:34:30

avoid the spread of disease and

sanitation facilities, you can

1:34:301:34:35

imagine, for so many people. And

also doing whatever we can to help

1:34:351:34:42

alleviate the emotional distress and

trauma that people have been going

1:34:421:34:46

through, to which your last speaker

alluded so eloquently.

Right. So you

1:34:461:34:54

have the challenge of providing

those basic essentials but trying to

1:34:541:34:58

provide some kind of help for

incredibly traumatised people.

Yes,

1:34:581:35:04

that's right. Our psychosocial

programmes are obviously, a lot of

1:35:041:35:12

them are directed towards children

who are in very large numbers and

1:35:121:35:19

need help to become children again

after all they have gone through.

1:35:191:35:24

The women obviously who have been

affected by these traumatic ordeal

1:35:241:35:29

is. But all some men, who somehow

also need to open up about the

1:35:291:35:35

experiences they have been through.

I want to ask you all if I may,

1:35:351:35:41

starting with you Anita, why you

think the international community

1:35:411:35:47

isn't doing more, why you think the

civilian leader isn't doing them

1:35:471:35:52

all, isn't doing anything.

Let me

start with Aung San Suu Kyi, she is

1:35:521:36:11

doing something but it is for

political gain. The international

1:36:111:36:15

community does not have any appetite

to help the Rohingya community, they

1:36:151:36:20

have their own interests. Everybody

wants to have a piece of cake in the

1:36:201:36:28

open Society or open democratic

country Myanmar. And also the

1:36:281:36:34

international community has not

labelled with the correct term which

1:36:341:36:42

will provide protection. Ethnic

cleansing does not bind the

1:36:421:36:51

international community to act. Even

the Security Council has failed to

1:36:511:36:54

come up with any resolution so the

best thing is to first put the

1:36:541:37:00

correct diagnosis, and that is

genocide. I say this because years

1:37:001:37:07

ago we were 3 million, and now more

than 623,000 Rohingyas have fled to

1:37:071:37:19

Bangladesh. Out of the remaining

people, 1020 are still kept in

1:37:191:37:31

camps, and there are also people

dying. There is a hybrid government,

1:37:311:37:40

including the civilian government,

Aung San Suu Kyi has been

1:37:401:37:46

responsible for the man-made tragedy

what we are facing now.

Skye Wheeler

1:37:461:37:54

from the human rights watch, why

isn't someone from outside trying to

1:37:541:37:58

intervene?

It's an amazing question,

it is unbelievable. Yesterday the

1:37:581:38:05

Burmese military put out a report in

which they said their army had not

1:38:051:38:09

raped a single woman and hadn't

killed a single civilian and that

1:38:091:38:13

the rules of engagement were

scrupulously followed. It is

1:38:131:38:18

absolutely astounding that they can

come out and say something like that

1:38:181:38:22

in the face of hundreds and hundreds

of documented stories. People

1:38:221:38:27

turning up in Bangladesh, 600,000 of

them with burns, some of them with

1:38:271:38:34

bullet wounds, rape victims. And the

army can get away with saying this

1:38:341:38:39

and the international community is

not calling them out. Clearly they

1:38:391:38:43

are not willing or able to

investigate and prosecute the crimes

1:38:431:38:48

that have happened, which we

consider to be crimes against

1:38:481:38:51

humanity. Whatever you call what has

happened, international crimes have

1:38:511:38:56

been committed. They need to be

acted upon. We need an ICC

1:38:561:39:01

investigation but even before then

we need an arms embargo on Burma and

1:39:011:39:06

we need individual sanctions to be

put in place on those most

1:39:061:39:10

responsible. They shouldn't be able

to fly and they should have their

1:39:101:39:15

assets frozen. The United Nations

Security Council have not been

1:39:151:39:19

strong enough, must be stronger.

Thank you very much, Skye Wheeler,

1:39:191:39:28

and Francis Markus who is on the

ground working in refugee camps, and

1:39:281:39:34

Anita Schug, thank you, describing

very eloquently what has happened to

1:39:341:39:41

her family in the area of Myanmar

where the Rohingyas are fleeing

1:39:411:39:49

from. A couple of comments from you,

Joe says shocking amounts of mass

1:39:491:39:55

rape of the Rohingya women. Yes,

Myanmar's military crimes are their

1:39:551:40:01

own but their arms suppliers are

also responsible. Another comment, a

1:40:011:40:09

question that needs asking, why

aren't other Muslim countries and

1:40:091:40:12

communities speaking out against the

violence and helping these poor

1:40:121:40:18

people, from Dee. Just before 11

o'clock and the trick -- tick is

1:40:181:40:35

clocking as you know.

1:40:351:40:37

Local councils are increasingly

resorting to bailiffs to recover

1:40:371:40:39

money they are owed.

1:40:391:40:40

We'll look at the numbers released

by a leading debt charity

1:40:401:40:43

and hear from a victim.

1:40:431:40:44

And the incredible story

of a British man who says he punched

1:40:441:40:47

a shark in the face after it

injured him in Australia.

1:40:471:40:50

He'll tell us the details.

1:40:501:40:52

Apologies, we are really late to the

news.

1:40:521:40:57

Here's Ben.

1:40:571:41:00

This is BBC News -

our main stories...

1:41:001:41:01

Inflation the rate of increase

in prices for goods and services

1:41:011:41:04

remained unchanged at 3% in October.

1:41:041:41:06

The rate remains at a five-year high

with rising food prices offset

1:41:061:41:08

by a fall in the cost of fuel,

according to the Office

1:41:081:41:11

for National Statistics.

1:41:111:41:12

MPs will begin debating a key piece

of Brexit legislation -

1:41:121:41:15

the EU withdrawal bill.

1:41:151:41:16

It will help turn European laws

into UK ones but opponents including

1:41:161:41:19

Tory rebels have tabled

scores of amendments.

1:41:191:41:22

Meanwhile, a Parliamentary report

is warning a failure to complete

1:41:221:41:24

the introduction of a new customs

system by the date of Brexit in 2019

1:41:241:41:28

would be "catastrophic".

1:41:281:41:33

A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

1:41:331:41:35

programme that she feels

disappointed, despite

1:41:351:41:37

receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House.

1:41:371:41:42

Last night Andrea Leadsom

called Lisa Wade -

1:41:421:41:45

who's waived her right to anonymity

- several months after the incident

1:41:451:41:48

was first reported to her.

1:41:481:41:49

Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

1:41:491:41:53

because of an ongoing legal case.

1:41:531:41:56

Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

1:41:561:42:00

committed widespread abuses

during what they call a campaign

1:42:001:42:03

of ethnic cleansing against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

1:42:031:42:06

The organisation said

Government forces have

1:42:061:42:07

committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

1:42:071:42:08

detention, and arson.

1:42:081:42:11

More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

1:42:111:42:13

in the north of the country.

1:42:131:42:16

Camps are being set up for tens

of thousands of people made homeless

1:42:161:42:19

by the powerful earthquake

which struck the mountainous border

1:42:191:42:22

region between Iran and Iraq.

1:42:221:42:24

Iran is observing a day of national

mourning for the more than 450

1:42:241:42:28

people who were killed.

1:42:281:42:30

Around 7,000 were injured.

1:42:301:42:35

A man and woman have been arrested

on suspicion of murdering a teenager

1:42:351:42:38

who has not been seen

for nearly a week.

1:42:381:42:44

19-year-old Gaia Pope, who has

severe epilepsy, was last seen

1:42:441:42:48

on the seventh of November.

1:42:481:42:49

Dorset Police say a 19-year-old man

and a 71-year-old woman

1:42:491:42:52

were arrested after searches took

place at two addresses in Swanage.

1:42:521:42:55

Officers say they were

both known to Gaia.

1:42:551:42:57

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:42:571:43:01

Here's some sport now

with Katherine Downes.

1:43:011:43:06

For the first time in 60 years Italy

will not be at the World Cup. The

1:43:061:43:12

champions lost on aggregate to

Sweden. A raft of experienced

1:43:121:43:15

players have retired following the

loss and the Italian press have

1:43:151:43:19

described the result as Apocalypse.

1:43:191:43:29

Wales centre Jonathan Davies will

miss the Six Nations due to

1:43:291:43:32

a foot injury.

1:43:321:43:33

He needs surgery and that

means his domestic season for

1:43:331:43:35

Scarlets may also be over.

1:43:351:43:37

Moeen Ali has recovered from side

strain so will play against

1:43:371:43:40

Australia, after getting to know

some of the local wildlife.

1:43:401:43:42

Ali was named in the team

for the final warm

1:43:421:43:44

up match which starts tomorrow.

1:43:441:43:46

Commonwealth champion

Dan Keatings says there

1:43:461:43:52

is a culture of

1:43:521:43:53

fear within British

gymnastics after some

1:43:531:43:54

coaches claimed there

was

1:43:541:43:55

appalling leadership

at the governing body.

1:43:551:44:05

Thank you.

1:44:111:44:12

A British doctor says he escaped

a shark by punching it in the face,

1:44:121:44:15

while he was surfing in Australia.

1:44:151:44:18

Charlie Fry, who is 25,

said the 6-foot long animal

1:44:181:44:20

"jumped out of the water and hit him

in the right shoulder".

1:44:201:44:23

He punched it while in the water -

north of Sydney - and then

1:44:231:44:27

climbed back on his board.

1:44:271:44:28

It felt like a hand grabbing me,

like shaking me and it was

1:44:281:44:31

just pure adrenalin.

1:44:311:44:32

I genuinely thought

I was going to die.

1:44:321:44:34

You are about to be

eaten alive by a shark.

1:44:341:44:40

It just went from my shoulder,

I got a big thud and then I turned

1:44:401:44:44

to the right and I saw a shark's

head come out of the water

1:44:441:44:47

with its teeth and I just

punched it in the face.

1:44:471:44:49

The mouth was in one bite

doing that up to there.

1:44:491:44:52

But in terms of the size,

I would probably put

1:44:521:44:54

it at, I don't know,

five, six foot, maybe a bit less.

1:44:541:45:04

Dude! What a dude! Charlie Fry, he

is all right, thank goodness.

1:45:061:45:20

Bailiffs were called in to collect

debts by councils in England

1:45:201:45:23

and Wales on more than two million

occasions last year,

1:45:231:45:25

a charity has discovered.

1:45:251:45:26

The Money Advice Trust

says more could be done

1:45:261:45:28

for the vulnerable in debt.

1:45:281:45:31

That speak to someone who was

confronted by bailiffs after failing

1:45:311:45:36

to pay a parking fine. Daniel,

thanks for talking to us. What

1:45:361:45:45

happened?

It was for a parking fine,

I was in a virtually empty car park.

1:45:451:45:51

I got back to my car, I thought I'm

not paying this, I have not caused a

1:45:511:45:57

hazard or interrupted anybody's

rights of access, interrupted the

1:45:571:46:04

flow of commerce and I didn't think

it was justified so I thought I

1:46:041:46:07

would see it through to the end.

Which meant what?

Eventually

1:46:071:46:13

bailiffs were knocking at my door, I

was given plenty of notice that they

1:46:131:46:18

were coming round.

Why? Because they

write to you first?

Yes, they give

1:46:181:46:26

you seven days' notice, and I just

said look I'm not playing this --

1:46:261:46:34

paying this, I don't feel it's

justified.

So they knocked at the

1:46:341:46:39

door and did you open it?

1:46:391:46:49

I said one minutes guys and I came

in the house and got my camera and

1:46:491:46:53

started filming them and that caused

an argument about filming and then I

1:46:531:46:58

told them, I says look, there is no

one making a claim against me that I

1:46:581:47:04

have caused them some sort of loss

in anyway, I'm not going to be

1:47:041:47:07

paying this and I told them about my

other experiences I have with the

1:47:071:47:12

bailiffs before when you just ignore

it or don't pay, it goes away. The

1:47:121:47:17

only thing they can really do is

clamp your car because the private

1:47:171:47:21

bailiff firms haven't go the power

to force entry.

OK. I'm going to

1:47:211:47:28

bring in Mike. Daniel says

eventually they go away. That's not

1:47:281:47:32

always the case, is it?

No, it's

not. If you owe money, they are

1:47:321:47:37

powered -- there are powers the

bailiffs have and the money research

1:47:371:47:40

trust shows that two-thirds of

councils are making more use of

1:47:401:47:43

bailiffs and generally, there is a

role for bailiffs, but I don't think

1:47:431:47:47

it is the right way with people who

are struggling.

What sort of abuses

1:47:471:47:58

are you talking about?

At Step

Change we carried out of a survey of

1:47:581:48:05

clients and one in six had received

a visit from the bailiff and about a

1:48:051:48:10

quarter had tried to settle the bill

over the phone, but the bailiff

1:48:101:48:15

insisted on visiting because the

bailiff makes money out of visiting

1:48:151:48:18

which is paid by the person in debt.

We need a change in the rules how

1:48:181:48:24

bailiffs are paid because they are

incentivised to do the wrong thing.

1:48:241:48:29

It is frightening for the kids and

embarrassing in front of your

1:48:291:48:32

neighbours so we want to see this

industry regulated. I'm never saying

1:48:321:48:36

the bailiffs are never needed, but

they should be the last resort, not

1:48:361:48:39

adds it sometimes appears with local

authorities, the people who are most

1:48:391:48:43

likely to send the bailiff round,

not the banks. It appears too many

1:48:431:48:50

are using as easy first resort.

That

must be costing them money?

No, it

1:48:501:48:54

is costing the person in debt money

because it is the people in debt who

1:48:541:48:59

have have to pay the fees for the

bailiffs so it gets added to the

1:48:591:49:02

debt. It puts them further in

difficulties.

And that's maybe one

1:49:021:49:07

explanation why the councils are

using them more?

I think banks are

1:49:071:49:12

smarter about collecting debts. They

come and talk to you and arrange an

1:49:121:49:17

affordable repayment plan and they

get more money back than local

1:49:171:49:21

authorities. The local authorities

aren't doing us council tax payers

1:49:211:49:26

any favours by using bailiffs. They

need to be much smarter about

1:49:261:49:30

helping people in the can't pay

territory.

1:49:301:49:37

We've received a statement from

the Local Government Association,

1:49:371:49:44

It says, "No council

wants to ask low income

1:49:441:49:46

people for more money.

1:49:461:49:47

However,

councils have a duty

1:49:471:49:48

to their residents to collect taxes

these fund crucial services,

1:49:481:49:50

such as caring for the elderly,

protecting vulnerable children,

1:49:501:49:53

keeping roads maintained

and collecting bins.

1:49:531:49:54

The statement went on to say

with councils facing a £5.8 billion

1:49:541:49:57

funding shortfall by 2020,

it's essential that these

1:49:571:49:59

funds are collected".

1:49:591:50:00

That's fair enough, isn't it Daniel?

I would like to make a point. I

1:50:001:50:03

think after 12 months from when the

council apply for the County Court

1:50:031:50:08

judgment, it becomes null and void

or it did when I was fighting

1:50:081:50:11

parking tickets. After 12 months it

becomes null and void and then they

1:50:111:50:15

have to apply for another one and in

my experience they have never

1:50:151:50:20

renewed the CCJ afterwards. For

parking fines it gets to £450 or

1:50:201:50:27

£500 and then they stop calling.

They make two visits face-to-face

1:50:271:50:34

visits the bailiffs. That's been my

experience.

OK.

I would urge people

1:50:341:50:39

not to follow that example. You must

not ignore the bill because it gets

1:50:391:50:44

worse and worse. Yes, we want

councils to collect the money that's

1:50:441:50:50

owing to them. You get more money

back if you negotiate and talk with

1:50:501:50:54

people. Sending the bailiffs round

does not bring in the money.

All

1:50:541:50:57

right, I will leave it there, thank

you.

1:50:571:51:01

Mike and Daniel who had a number of

parking tickets as you heard.

1:51:011:51:07

An alleged rape victim who reported

the attack to the Commons

1:51:071:51:10

authorities tells us exclusively

she feels "disappointed"

1:51:101:51:14

after receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House,

1:51:141:51:17

Andrea Leadsom, last night.

1:51:171:51:21

Lisa Wade, a Tory activist who's now

waived her right to anonymity,

1:51:211:51:24

says she only believes

she was called at all

1:51:241:51:26

as a result of us breaking

the story and that she got

1:51:261:51:29

a "politician's answers".

1:51:291:51:30

Last week we revealed the woman,

who at that stage we were calling

1:51:301:51:33

"Amanda" went to the Commons Clerk

several months ago to complain about

1:51:331:51:36

the "toxic" culture of Westminster.

1:51:361:51:38

She said she felt it contributed

to her alleged rape outside

1:51:381:51:40

of Parliament by a man who worked

for a Tory MP.

1:51:401:51:47

The clerk reported those concerns

and the attack to Andrea Leadsom,

1:51:471:51:50

who didn't contact Ms Wade

until our coverage

1:51:501:51:52

on this programme.

1:51:521:51:53

The man Lisa Wade accused of rape

strongly denied the allegation

1:51:531:51:55

and the case was eventually dropped

after a review of the evidence.

1:51:551:51:58

Here Ms Wade tells us

about the phone call

1:51:581:52:01

from Andrea Leadsom.

1:52:011:52:05

She really wanted to change things

in Westminster so that the behaviour

1:52:051:52:10

that I had witnessed could no longer

occur. She wanted to take action by

1:52:101:52:18

creating an independent grievance

body for activists and workers in

1:52:181:52:21

the future to go to. It was what I

expected her to say really. Nothing

1:52:211:52:29

more, nothing less.

What do you

think about the length of time it

1:52:291:52:33

has taken the Leader of the House of

Commons, Andrea Leadsom to contact

1:52:331:52:38

you when you initially reported this

back in August?

1:52:381:52:41

I think it was far too long, but the

Conservative Party certainly have a

1:52:411:52:46

history of taking time to act on

complaints made to them. So I wasn't

1:52:461:52:50

surprised by the amount of time that

it took, however I was disappointed

1:52:501:52:53

by it because at the time I made the

complaint I was expecting for, you

1:52:531:52:58

know, to go to a court case, to go

and see my attacker brought to

1:52:581:53:03

trial. And I would have thought that

when a case reaches that stage it

1:53:031:53:07

should be fairly obvious that the

allegation is incredibly serious and

1:53:071:53:13

that it's, you know, if it's passed

the police threshold test, that it's

1:53:131:53:17

credible. I expected her to

apologise and I appreciate that she

1:53:171:53:21

did so, but at the end of the day, I

don't know what, you know, ideally I

1:53:211:53:30

would have appreciated some

reassurance that it wouldn't happen

1:53:301:53:35

again. That women such as myself

don't ever get put in that position

1:53:351:53:40

again and I think that's always been

my objective.

How can any politician

1:53:401:53:45

make sure that that happens?

For

one, listening, these allegations,

1:53:451:53:50

it is not just me, they have been

around for years regarding staffers

1:53:501:53:54

and MPs etcetera. It's, up until,

you know, relatively recently you

1:53:541:54:00

couldn't speak out and you would get

verbally and reputationly abused for

1:54:001:54:06

doing so.

Are they listening now?

I

don't know. I don't know.

But you

1:54:061:54:11

are still not sure that they are

taking this seriously?

No. No. I

1:54:111:54:15

think in the absence of an

independent ombudsman or similar,

1:54:151:54:21

it's very difficult to sort of take

that complaint process away from the

1:54:211:54:26

individual parties and away interest

those who are concerned about

1:54:261:54:30

protecting reputations.

Do you think

you would have received a call at

1:54:301:54:35

all from Andrea Leadsom if it wasn't

for our intrir with you on this

1:54:351:54:39

programme last week?

No. No, I don't

think so. In my experience,

1:54:391:54:45

particularly with the issues that

came out in 2015, it is only when

1:54:451:54:49

the media draws attention to the

nature of the concerns and applies

1:54:491:54:53

due pressure on to them, that they

start to respond and I think that

1:54:531:54:59

response is, it's not the right kind

of response. They should be

1:54:591:55:03

responding out of a genuine concern

rather than the concern for bad

1:55:031:55:05

press.

We first reported your story last

1:55:051:55:09

week. Initially, Andrea Leadsom's

office denied they had been told

1:55:091:55:14

about your alleged rape which

happened away from the Parliamentary

1:55:141:55:18

estate. Later that day, they

admitted she had been told, but said

1:55:181:55:22

because of a police case was under

way, there was nothing they could

1:55:221:55:26

do. What do you think about the

statement changing like that?

1:55:261:55:28

Covering their backs. You know, I

think had it been necessary

1:55:281:55:34

significant evidence to, you know,

perform the FOI request to show she

1:55:341:55:41

was told. I think it was concern

that that would come out through

1:55:411:55:46

other means if it wasn't changed.

How do you think generally they've

1:55:461:55:52

handled your complaint to them?

I

respect the fact that as I say

1:55:521:56:02

politicians don't feel they are

gaining, but they have a duty to

1:56:021:56:10

take care when it involves

individuals who work within

1:56:101:56:15

Parliament and particularly in youth

groups and young people.

You don't

1:56:151:56:18

think that's happened in your case?

No.

How would you describe that?

I

1:56:181:56:23

think, you know, there have been a

number of allegations of rape and

1:56:231:56:28

serious sexual assaults in and

around Parliament. And I certainly

1:56:281:56:32

think that because my complaint and

my case didn't attract the media

1:56:321:56:39

attention in that it occurred off

the estate and it occurred in my own

1:56:391:56:43

home I think that was used an an

excuse to reject responsibility for

1:56:431:56:48

anything to do with it. And you

know, if I had of been given a

1:56:481:56:53

proper chance to explain why I

thought it was so important that

1:56:531:56:56

they knew about this and were able

to act accordingly I think they

1:56:561:57:01

would have realised, you know, it

was very much part and parcel of

1:57:011:57:05

that environment.

Daisy Goodwin

revealed that a government official

1:57:051:57:09

touched her breast when she went for

a meeting, she says, inside Number

1:57:091:57:13

Ten. How do you react to that?

I'm

not surprised.

1:57:131:57:19

I've had, you know, I have been

groped in bars in Westminster.

1:57:191:57:23

This is in Number Ten, a government

official, she says?

It's that

1:57:231:57:26

environment again. It's not the

location. It's the bubble. It's a

1:57:261:57:33

culture of permissiveness, it's just

nobody objects. Therefore, they

1:57:331:57:37

think they can get away with what

they like and it is very much women

1:57:371:57:41

are very much sort of particularly

when they're young and they're not

1:57:411:57:45

necessarily as politically savvy as

others or they're from outside, you

1:57:451:57:49

know, young students who have not

been, you know, involved in politics

1:57:491:57:53

for very long and they don't know

how things are. They don't have the

1:57:531:57:57

self-confidence to say, hang on, no,

this isn't right. And I think you

1:57:571:58:00

know they take advantage of the fact

that people are new and they are

1:58:001:58:06

not, they're scared, you know. If

somebody attacked me in Number Ten I

1:58:061:58:11

would probably do much the same as

she did. I wouldn't necessarily have

1:58:111:58:15

complained and I think, that's very

much the same in other circles as

1:58:151:58:18

well. People don't feel they can

complain because it's just

1:58:181:58:22

normalised. I'm sure the gentleman

that attacked her didn't show any

1:58:221:58:27

concern for her reaction or similar.

Lisa Wade.

1:58:271:58:32

Andrea Leadsom's office chose not to

comment on the phone call and the

1:58:321:58:36

man Lisa Wade accused denies the

allegation.

1:58:361:58:42

On the programme tomorrow -

we go behind the scenes of the type

1:58:421:58:46

of rap videos that are accused

of glorifying knife crime.

1:58:461:58:48

Thank you very much for watching

today. See you tomorrow.

1:58:481:58:52

An exclusive interview with an alleged rape victim who reported the attack to the Commons authorities and has waived her right to anonymity.

A woman who still has family in the part of Myanmar where the Rohingyas are fleeing from tells the programme about their plight.

And we hear from the British man who says he punched a shark in the face after it injured him in Australia.