14/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Tuesday, it's nine

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

Our top story this morning:

it's another crucial day

in the Brexit countdown.

Battle lines over Brexit as Mrs May

seeks to push through crucial

legislation to take us out of the EU

and Tory rebels are warned that if

they oppose Mrs May they could pave

the way forward Jeremy Corbyn

government. -- for a Jeremy Corbyn

government.

We'll bring you all the details.

Also on the programme -

in her first British TV interview

we speak to a surrogate mother

from California, who gave birth

to two babies and then found

out one of the children

was biologically hers.

I was already pregnant

through in vitro

with the IVF centre,

and when

I was about six, seven weeks

pregnant, they found another embryo.

The doctor, they just did that.

The embryo that they

transferred split

into two and turned into twins.

My body still ovulated

while already pregnant.

And then the obvious

happened with your husband.

Of course.

That full interview

in around 15 minutes' time.

And the television producer

and writer, Daisy Goodwin -

who created the ITV drama,

"Victoria" - has claimed

she was assaulted by a government

official during

a visit to Number Ten.

Hello.

Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11am.

We won an award last night, I hope

you don't mind me mentioning it. It

is courtesy of the Mind mental

health charity. Thank you to Mind

and the judges who gave us this

award. And really it's a massive

thank you to you, people who trusted

us to come on the programme and talk

in Frank weighs about their mental

health issues. This is for you.

A little later we'll hear how

councils are using bailiffs

to collect unpaid debt.

It's been described

as "deeply troubling"

by the money advice trust -

really keen to hear from you.

Has a council used a bailff on you?

Do get in touch and share your

experiences this morning -

use the hashtag Victoria live.

Our top story...

MPs will begin going through a key

piece of Brexit legislation today -

the EU Withdrawal Bill,

which will help turn

European laws into UK ones.

They'll be scrutinising the bill

line by line and have already

suggested hundreds of changes,

some of them coming

from Conservative rebels.

Yesterday, the Brexit Secretary,

David Davis, made a surprise

concession, promising Parliament

would get a vote on

the final Brexit deal.

Our political correspondent

Leila Nathoo reports.

The Prime Minister.

Still the one in charge, Theresa May

last night at the glittering

Lord Mayor's Banquet in London,

a break from Brexit

and potential trouble ahead.

A key piece of the government's

Brexit legislation returns

to the Commons today,

and MPs are trying

to tinker with it.

They are proposing hundreds

of changes to try to influence

ministers' approach,

and so yesterday an apparent

concession to one

of their key demands.

I can now confirm that once we have

reached an agreement we will bring

forward a specific piece of primary

legislation to implement

that agreement.

Parliament will be given time

to debate, scrutinise and vote

on the final agreement we strike

with the European Union.

This agreement will only hold

if parliament approves it.

But with such a fragile majority,

just a handful of Tory backbenchers

siding with the opposition

would lead to a government defeat.

And those minded to rebel seem

unsatisfied with the

take it or leave it vote

the government has offered.

I have to say, a lot of us

were insulted by this.

I mean, because it sounded so good

and then when you dug

into the detail you realise this

so-called meaningful vote

was completely meaningless.

There will be more contentious votes

here in the coming weeks as MPs

test the government's

fragile working majority.

Norman Smith

is at Westminster.

It is another big day. That

concession, which some have put in

inverted commas from David Davis, is

it a meaningful vote in the end?

Mrs

May's critics don't think so because

the problem is, although there will

be a bill, it won't be like a normal

bill. Usually with bills, MPs can

amend them, change them, they can

say to ministers you need to go away

and think again and recast this

legislation. With this bill it is

take it or leave it time and if they

don't like it, tough. We will leave

the EU without any sort of deal and

that is nightmare land for many

Remainers. However, they are under

massive, massive pressure to back

off because some Tories are saying,

if you rebels defeat Mrs May, that

is such a big moment that it could

possibly amount to a vote of

confidence in the Government, that

might mean a general election, it

could mean a Jeremy Corbyn

government. They are under colossal

pressure to back off.

And tell us

more about Mrs May's accusations of

Russian meddling.

Very striking

because although Mrs May said last

night it is not a return to the Cold

War, you get a sense relations with

Russia are in the deep freezer

big-time. Last night Mrs May accused

Russia of annex in Crimea, the first

time she said that had happened in

Europe since the Nazis and Second

World War. She accused them of

fermenting conflict in the Ukraine,

engaging in cyber warfare and

meddling in elections. Have a listen

to some of her language last night.

It is seeking to weaponise

information, deploying its state-run

media organisations to plant fake

stories and photoshopped images in

an attempt to sow discord in the

west and undermine our institutions.

So I have a very simple message for

Russia. We know what you are doing

and you will not succeed.

Now, just

imagine that Boris Johnson has to go

to Russia next month. How difficult

is it going to be for the Foreign

Secretary to go there and try to

foster better relations with

President Putin in the wake of those

attacks from Mrs May.

For now, thank

you.

Ben Brown is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

committed widespread abuses

during what they call 'a campaign

of ethnic cleansing' against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

The organisation said

Government forces have

committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

detention, and arson.

More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

in the north of the country.

We'll have a film including

testimony from the refugees

just after ten o'clock.

A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

programme that she feels fobbed off,

despite receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House.

Andrea Leadsom called Lisa Wade,

who's waived her right

to anonymity, last night,

several months after the incident

was first reported to her.

Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

because of an ongoing legal case.

We'll hear from Lisa at 9.30am.

The television producer

and writer, Daisy Goodwin -

who created the ITV drama,

"Victoria" - has claimed

she was groped by a government

official during a visit

to Number Ten.

She told the Radio Times the man

put his hand on her breast

after a meeting to discuss

a proposed TV show when David

Cameron was Prime Minister.

She said she wasn't

traumatised, but was cross -

adding she didn't report it

at the time.

Downing Street said they take

all allegations very seriously

and would look into any formal

complaint, should one be made.

Thousands of people are spending

a second night without shelter

in near freezing conditions

after an earthquake

caused devastation in

parts of Iran and Iraq.

More than 450 people were killed

and around 7,000 injured.

Sarah Corker reports.

This is the deadliest earthquake

in the world this year.

The border town of Pol-e Zahab

here in western Iran

bore the brunt of it.

Homes were flattened in seconds,

crushing everyone inside.

The search for survivors

has been frantic.

But early this morning,

Iranian officials called off

the rescue operation.

At this local hospital,

many of the injured had

stories of narrow escapes.

TRANSLATION: I fell

from the balcony down.

The earthquake was very strong.

This mountainous area

is prone to earthquakes.

Power cuts and landslides

have made it difficult

for rescue teams to get in.

The most severely hurt

have been airlifted out,

some taken to hospital

in the Iranian capital, Tehran.

But, overwhelmed by the sheer number

of injured, the authorities

are appealing for people

to donate blood.

And this is the moment this

7.3-magnitude quake hit

in neighbouring Iraq.

A man runs for his life

from the control room of this dam.

Boulders were tossed

around like pebbles.

A picture of widespread

devastation is emerging -

hundreds dead, thousands

injured, many missing.

Turkey has sent a convoy

of aid trucks, medication,

tents and blankets, and many have

spent a second night outdoors,

terrified by the after-shocks.

So far, there have been

more than 190 of them.

A man and woman have been arrested

on suspicion of murdering a teenager

who has not been seen

for nearly a week.

19-year-old Gaia Pope, who has

severe epilepsy, was last seen

on the 7th November.

Dorset Police say a 19-year-old man

and a 71-year-old woman

were arrested after searches took

place at two addresses in Swanage.

Officers say they were

both known to Gaia.

Head teachers representing

more than 5,000 schools

across England have sent a joint

letter to the Chancellor,

Philip Hammond, warning

of inadequate funding.

They say they are increasingly

having to ask parents for donations.

The government has already promised

to move £1.3 billion

of education funding into schools,

but

heads say they need

another £1.7 billion

of new money.

One of the victims of an acid attack

in a London nightclub has told

the BBC that she hopes

the conviction of the man

who assalted her will put others off

committing similar crimes.

Arthur Collins - the ex-boyfriend

of reality TV star Ferne McCann -

was found guilty of throwing acid

across a crowded nightclub,

injuring 22 people.

He will be sentenced in December.

Lauren Trent told us

she still struggles with anxiety

more than six months

after the attack.

Being in busy places,

I'm extremely anxious.

If I can't see the dance floor,

or if I can't see what's

going on, or if a fight breaks out,

you know, the first thing that goes

through my head nowadays is,

what are they going to do?

What are they going to pull out?

It's only up until now

that we can talk about

things and hear how everyone went

through the trial

and things like that.

I think, a massive sense of relief,

but it doesn't change what

happened whatsoever,

but I think it's more of, you know,

OK, well, something's been done

that's setting

the standard now for anyone,

you know, that's thinking

about doing something like this.

It's putting them off doing

something like that.

Britain's biggest supermarket -

Tesco - has been given the green

light to buy out our biggest

food wholesaler Booker.

The Competition and Markets

Authority says the deal does

not raise competition

nor pricing concerns.

Booker has a retail arm -

including brands Premier,

Londis and Budgens -

but also makes money

in the catering industry.

Tesco said the tie up

would bring benefits

for small retailers,

suppliers, consumers and staff.

A leading debt charity says

it's deeply troubled

by the increasing use of bailiffs

by local authorities in England

and Wales to recover

money they are owed.

The Money Advice Trust found

the number of cases had risen

by 14% over two years

to 2.3 million.

The Local Government Association

said bailiffs are only

used as a last resort.

The largest diamond of its kind

every to be put up for auction

will go under the hammer

in Geneva today.

The 163-carat stone,

which was discovered

in Angola last year,

is set into a necklace of almost

6,000 emeralds, and over

800 smaller diamonds.

It took ten months to cut

and is expected to fetch

30 million dollars,

which is almost 23 million pounds.

That's a summary of the latest

BBC News, more at 9.30.

We have had an e-mail from Megan

about bailiffs. Figures suggesting

councils are using them more and

more to collect unpaid parking

fines. Megan had a stressful

experience during a parking fine

that had been sent to a previous

address so I wasn't aware though of

it. I attempted to discuss this with

the council who refused and said

communication should be made with

the bailiffs. Having a baby and

being on maternity pay, I was

fearful these bullies would turn up

on my doorstep.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning.

If you text, you will be charged.

Let's get some sport

from Catherine Downs.

We are going to have a World Cup

without Italy.

Yes, Italy will not be at the World

Cup for the first time in 60 years.

Four time World Cup winners and they

will not be going after they were

beaten by Sweden in the end. What

went wrong perhaps for Italy? The

coach is blamed for relying on a

group of experienced veterans, not

playing his young talent.

All kinds of despair in the Italian

Italian papers. They are calling it

the end of the world. The legendary

Italian goalkeeper announced his

retirement from football. This will

be his last game seeing his country

fail to make it to the World Cup in

Russia next year. Why are we making

a big deal of it? Well, I went to

Rome a couple of years ago after

Claudio Ranieri won the Premier

League with Leicester City. Everyone

I spoke to had heard about Claudio

Ranieri. Knew exactly everything

that they could about Italian

football and the division of loyalty

as well between Roma fans and Lazio

fans was like nothing I had seen,

that was just in one city in Rome

and for a nation to fail to make to

the World Cup next year, it will be

a national sense of despair to go

along with that. Let's talk about

gymnastics t Dan Keating agreed

there was a culture of fear at

British gymnastics. What else had he

had to say?

There has been a

rumbling of discontent in British

gymnastics, a culture of fear of

discontent amongst the elite

gymnastics and now Dan Keating, he

is Commonwealth champion. He has

agreed there is a culture of fear in

British gymnastics. He said that he

was repeatedly called fat in

training. He was often depressed and

unwilling to leave the house at some

points. He said athletes like him

were scared of speaking out for fear

of losing their place in the team

and losing the funding that comes

with that. He said when he retired

in January, it was a massive relief,

a weight off his shoulders, he said.

Talking about the fact that there is

success in British gymnastics, but

it comes at a cost. The Chief

Executive of British gymnastics Jane

Allen said, "Our safeguarding

processes are robust." They are

aware of the complaints. Athletes

should be encouraged to come

forward. But this is another British

sport, as well as British swimming,

British bobsleigh, British canoeing

coming under the spotlight now

Victoria.

There are some top

gymnasts that are yet to sign new

contracts?

There is a lot of tooing

and froing about the new contracts

that come from the governing body.

Some gymnasts we understand have not

yet agreed to sign their contract at

the moment. They are unhappy with

the clauses that stop them,

according to Dan Keating from

finding their own sponsors and

raising their own money from outside

the sport and Dan Keating says that

British gymnastics are looking to

control everything that athletes

like Max Whitlock, who we are seeing

right now, are able to earn outside

the sport. There is a meeting, we

understand, between the governing

body and top athletes like Max

Whitlock happening over the next

couple of days and they are hoping

to pin down the contracts and get

them signed, but at a point where

British gymnastics is enjoying this

success, Max Whitlock won two

Olympic titles in Rio and seven

medals at the Rio Games, the

question now for British gymnastics

as in so many British sports at the

moment is at what cost success?

Cheers, Catherine, thank you.

This morning, in her first British

TV interview we speak to a surrogate

mother from California,

who gave birth to two

babies and then found out

that one of the children

was biologically hers.

Jessica Allen became pregnant

with her own biological child whilst

she was carrying another baby

as a surrogate for a Chinese couple.

She only realised after she'd

handed over the babies

to their intended parents and then

she faced a lengthy custody

battle to get her son back.

Jessica and her son Malachi spoke

to us from their home in California.

She told me about the birth of what

everybody thought was twins.

It was a scheduled C-section,

my first surgery.

Luckily, everything went

well, there were no

complications or problems.

And I was able to...

BABY SHOUTS.

Able to heal and

everything, it was good.

It was a good labour.

Did you get to see the boys?

No, I did not see them.

How did you feel about that?

I was very hurt by it.

I was very hurt by it,

it was in my contract that I

was going to have an hour

visit with the babies.

And when I asked her

if they were going to stop by before

they left the hospital,

she stated probably not.

That instantly brought me to tears,

and you know, broke my heart.

You did see a photograph of the two

boys, what did they look

like, what did you say

when you saw that picture?

It was a picture of them side

by side with beanies out,

their faces turn towards each other

with their eyes closed.

So it wasn't a perfect

face shot, but it was

definitely obvious that

they weren't identical.

And I stated after looking

at the picture and I was

handing it back, I stated

that they looked different.

My caseworker, through

the agency was in the room

with me and she stated also

that she gave birth to identical

twins that didn't look identical

at birth, but

as they got older,

they started looking identical.

So I took that as maybe

that was the case of my twins also.

I didn't even know identical twins

could come out not identical

and then as getting

older, being identical.

So that's what she said

and that is how I took it.

And then you got a text

from the other mum, the

intended mum a month or so later

with a photograph of the boys.

What did she ask you?

She just stated that she is

getting a DNA test for

her embassy so she could go back

home to her country and that she is

also having doubts that one

doesn't belong to her.

She stated that she was waiting

for me to be well to let me know.

It was already a month later.

She basically was just letting me

know that she was having doubts.

Right, and she asked you if you'd

considered why they were

different, how did

you respond to that?

I responded with exactly what my

caseworker told me, you know,

they were probably just not

looking identical at birth.

And lso, I knew they were in

separate sacs, and you

know, we all know if you are

carrying twins in two different

sacs, they are not identical.

So tell our British audience

about what happened

eventually you found out that

Malachy

was in fact your son and not

from the sorrow that embryo.

was in fact your son and not

from the surrogate embryo.

After I got the text

with with the picture of the test

results stating that the intended

father was not his genetic father,

you know, I was freaking out.

I called my caseworker

asking her what is going on.

And she didn't have answers.

The only thing she knew

what to say was, I have two get

myself into the DNA lab and get

tested for my results to see if I

was the mother of the baby.

So we went and did that.

And about a week and a half later,

I got the test results

saying I am his genetic mother.

My caseworker immediately went

and picked him up and put him under

her care.

So you were the biological mother

of one of the babies and the

other mum was the biological

mother of the other baby?

Yes.

Which is absolutely extraordinary!

How does that happen?

Well, I was already

pregnant through in vitro

with the IVF centre.

And when I was six, seven

weeks pregnant they found

another embryo.

The doctor just stated

that the embryo be transferred was

split into two and

turned into twins.

My body still ovulated

while already pregnant.

And then the obvious

happened with your husband?

Of course!

So, tell us how your little boy

was eventually returned to you?

Well, after communicating back

and forth with the surrogate

agency for almost a month,

and the process of trying to find an

attorney, they just kept giving us

excuses as to why they weren't

handing him over to me

and after we finally found

an attorney, all it

took was an e-mail from her stating

that they better hand over my child

or they will create more damages

than what they already have.

So we got a phone call

and we were told we

could go and meet the caseworker

at Starbucks and pick up our baby.

So you went to the car park

of Starbucks, tell us what happened

and how you were feeling?

Are you OK, Jessica?

Sorry, this part just gets hard.

It's no problem.

I went and met her at

the Starbucks parking lot

and she was late.

So I was freaking out already

that this was just going

to be another time that I was

supposed to get him and didn't.

When she finally arrived, I started

walking and she grabbed him out of

the car in his car seat

and walked towards me.

We kind of met in the middle

and she just took him out of

his car seat...

It's OK, take your time.

And I just snatched him from her

and said, "Give me my baby".

And that was clearly

a very, very emotional

time for you?

Yeah.

What did it feel

like to hold your son?

I was heartbroken

because I missed two

months of his life because of them.

But I was also relieved

because it was my first time finally

seeing him and I knew

that he was finally in our

arms where he is safe

and where he belongs.

And when did you first hear this

word, superfertation?

We started finding this

word and their term

for it when we started

doing our research

if this has happened

to anyone before.

Obviously it has because there

is an actual term for it.

But it's so rare, I think there

are only like a dozen cases across

the world?

Yes.

It has happened and there's only

so many recorded, but

it has happened more

than that and I wish more

women would come forward,

other women that it has happened to,

so we know how common

it actually is.

How would you describe

what it means?

I mean it means that

when a woman is pregnant

she still naturally ovulate

and concedes another child.

You know, they are not

twins and they

are not even the same exact age,

but she ends up having two different

babies at the same time.

We saw Malachy at the beginning

of the interview.

He looks happy, he's bonnie,

he looks healthy, how is he?

He's a handful.

He's beautiful, he's hyper,

he's happy, healthy.

He keeps us busy and his

brothers love him.

Daddy and I love him.

We are very grateful

he is here where he belongs.

What do you think

your little boy will

make of this when he's older?

You've obviously got

a bit of time before you

think about whether you are going

to tell him everything, what do you

think he's going to say?

When the time comes,

we'll cross that bridge.

But I know there is going to be

a day when he's going to know his

life made an impact

all around the world.

That is certainly

true and here he is.

How old is he now, Jessica?

He's 11 months now.

He just turned 11 months yesterday.

He's absolutely adorable.

Astonishing to think

that this little boy has made

headlines around

the world, isn't it?

Oh yes, it's kind of...

Unreal.

It doesn't seem real,

but it's our reality

and it's kind

of hard to wrap our heads around it.

We are just taking it

one day at a time.

We are very grateful you have been

speaking to us and our

British viewers.

Thank you so much, Jessica.

Thank you Malachy.

Thank you.

BABY SNEEZES.

Bless you.

Bless you.

Goodbye.

Bye.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jessica,

what a sweetheart he is.

Still to come, an alleged rape

victim tells us exclusively why

she feels "fobbed off"

by authorities in the Commons

despite receiving a phone

call from the leader

of the House last night.

Plus we'll be live Myanmar

where deeply disturbing claims

of mass rape and other crimes

against the Rohingya

Muslims are being reported.

Time for the latest news.

MPs will today begin debating a key

piece of Brexit legislation -

the EU withdrawal bill.

It will help turn European laws

into UK ones but opponents including

Tory rebels have tabled

scores of amendments.

Meanwhile a Parliamentary report

is warning a failure to complete

the introduction of a new customs

system by the date of Brexit in 2019

would be "catastrophic".

Theresa May has launched her

strongest attack on Russia yet,

accusing Moscow of meddling

in elections and carrying

out cyber espionage.

Speaking at the Lord Mayor's banquet

in London, the Prime Minister said

Vladimir Putin's government

was trying to "undermine free

societies" by planting

fake information.

A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

programme that she feels

disappointed, despite

receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House.

Andrea Leadsom called Lisa Wade -

who's waived her right

to anonymity - last night,

several months after the incident

was first reported to her.

Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

because of an ongoing legal case.

We'll hear from Lisa shortly.

Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

committed widespread abuses

during what they call 'a campaign

of ethnic cleansing' against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

The organisation said

Government forces have

committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

detention, and arson.

More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

in the north of the country.

We'll have a film including

testimony from the refugees

just after ten o'clock.

That's a summary of our latest news,

back to you. On the story of

bailiffs, I was hounded because

council tax had lost my benefit

form. I don't pay it because I'm

university student but after

constant calls they wouldn't let it

go. I am terrified I'm going to you

lose everything. This e-mail from

Tyrone. ... This from the shell, my

sister owed her previous council

tax. Bailiffs were sent to my

sister, who on benefits had little

to offer. The bailiff said he needed

half of what was owed that day and

in panic she gave the bailiff my

mother's number who was 70 and has

health conditions. He pressured her

to pay half over the phone and told

her my sister could go to prison,

and she paid up. It is disgusting

behaviour. They have a job to do but

they have to play fair. Thank you

for those. We are going to talk

about bailiffs after 10:30am.

Breaking news now.

And the latest inflation

figures are out now -

what do they tell us?

It is slightly less than was

expected. The consensus among

economists had been to 3.1% and the

Bank of England said these figures

for October would be the peak of

inflation or likely to be. That's

what they were forecasting. The fact

the peak was slightly below what

some people expected means there's

less of an urgent need to make a

second rise in interest rates any

time soon. A few interesting

details, unfortunately the inflation

rate for food and nonalcoholic

beverages was its highest in four

years, 4.1%.

What's driving that? A

lot of it is to do with the fact we

import our food.

It is still

substantially down from where it was

a couple of years ago and it means

when people import they have to pay

in Euros or dollars and that

requires more pounds to get the same

amounts of food. You see that

feeding through to supermarket

shelves. There's been a theory they

have been protecting us to some

extent from the impact of the weaker

pound but they cannot do that

forever and we are seeing some of

that feeding through.

OK, what does

it mean for people in the run-up to

Christmas?

It is the same as last

month and the month before. Their

wages are not growing as fast as

prices are. Although credit is very

cheap, think about how much you

should rely on cheap credit for the

sustainable future. You can have a

nice Christmas now but in ten months

it could be harder.

Have a nice

Christmas to you as well.

Sorry!

It's OK, it is only your job!

Now, the sport. Italy will not be in

the World Cup, and the Italian press

have described the result as

Apocalypse.

Moeen Ali will play his first game

of England's Ashes tour, he has

recovered from a side strain and

makes the team.

World number one Rafael Nadal has

withdrawn from end of season tour

finals with a knee injury. He was

beaten last night by David Goffin.

And the Commonwealth champion Dan

Keatings has said there is a culture

of fear in British gymnastics as a

row about contracts rumbles on. He

said his experience in the sport

left him depressed and I will be

talking more about that in about

half an hour.

Thank you. It is 9:37am, good

morning.

Every European Country

is in the midst of growing

homelessness crisis,

with one exception - Finland.

There, they've almost eradicated

homelessness in the capital

by giving people a permanent home

as soon as they become homeless.

That scheme is now being

looked at in the UK,

and the West Midlands could be one

of the first areas to adopt it.

Their Mayor, Andy Street, has been

to Finland to find out more.

We'll hear from him shortly,

but first, let's speak

to Thomas Salmi, one of the homeless

people in Finland this

scheme has helped.

I was homeless three years, and I

was in the streets, like, almost two

winters, Alberta, cold.

-- out there, cold.

I had no place to go.

One year and one day

ago, I moved here.

If you want an apartment,

a house to live in, you

don't have to give anything,

like, for exchange.

It's your human right to live

somewhere, and then you can

build your life.

And I came here just a year

ago, and when I look

back to those days when

I was in the streets,

I kind of lost hope of anything

getting better.

But now, when I'm

sitting here, thinking

about it, I've got an apartment,

I have a job here,

I'm finally capable of being social

with humans.

I have no health

problems, but if I never

had that apartment, it

wouldn't be possible.

I tried to get an apartment

from Helsinki's renting.

They told me, you have

to work to rent

the house, but how can I work

without the house?

So, it's like a circle.

It doesn't work.

And when I come to

work, and I go after

work, I know that my

house is there for me.

I can sleep, I can be

there in my own peace.

It's like my house.

Nobody comes and tells me,

you have to do this.

You cannot drink here.

It's like a rule for this house.

I can drink if I want.

And I really drank a lot,

and I mean a lot, when

I was homeless, but now

I have a house, I have work,

I'm not feeling like drinking

so much any more.

Let's talk to Andy Street,

the West Midlands Mayor who visited

Helsinki and is hoping to introduce

the scheme in his area.

And Peter Fredriksson,

a senior advisor on housing

in Finland who has implemented

the Housing First scheme.

Andy Street, explain how it works

because it seems pretty simple.

You

could say that. I was lucky enough

to go to Helsinki and the simple

idea is that the city provides

accommodation, in shared blocks, for

people who have been rough sleeping,

to move into. As you heard Thomas

say, that means he has some work he

calls his home and can rebuild his

life from a place of safety.

From a

council's point of view, you have to

have that accommodation freely

available and that

might be the problem here.

The issue

is having the money to secure the

places in accommodation that I think

we could make available across the

West Midlands but actually what we

are playing for is the funding to

pay for it. That's why we have put

our application into government to

be the pilot in the UK of this

scheme.

And it will cost the West

Midlands £15 million, is that right?

Over three years, yes.

And would

that be money well spent to get

that?

Yes, because this is the pilot

to test this and we are saying it

would be a good investment because

there are many hidden costs of the

rough sleeping challenge we have.

Particularly the services provided

to people on the streets, they have

very significant costs so we can say

if we do this we help people rebuild

their lives as you heard on the

clip, that is a good investment.

And

do you know yet how many people that

might help over three years?

Yes, we

have looked at the number of people

who are rough sleeping on the

streets in the West Midlands. Last

year the number officially counted

was about 132 so we have said let's

look over three years at the total

number of people likely we will need

to accommodate and that is to meet

the current level.

So if you are

homeless, whether that is sleeping

rough or sleeping on friends' sofas

or even in temporary accommodation,

might you be helped?

This is for

people who are rough sleeping with

absolutely nowhere to go because

there are other issues that lead to

people, as you say, sofa surfing or

in temporary accommodation and as

part of our general attack on

homelessness we have to look at the

causes there as well but this is

about a particular tip of the

iceberg issue and I'm sure it's the

same in other areas of the country.

It is that where members of the

public say we have got to do

something about this, it cannot be

right.

Let me bring in Peter

Fredriksson, thank you for talking

to us. Your scheme has cost 240

million euros over eight years, how

many rough sleepers has that helped

in that period of time?

It has been

managed to put it down with 1500

long-term home rough sleepers, so it

is a reduction of 37% of the

situation we started in 2008. So it

has been very successful from our

point of view and especially the

rough sleeping has been put down by

half. Also you have to take account

also of the other long-term

homeless, the people living in

institution is without a place to go

for example.

And it is as

straightforward as anybody sleeping

on the street, you put them straight

into permanent accommodation, that

is it? No bed and breakfast, no

temporary hostels, it is a home for

them for ever?

That is the point.

Direct accesses the most important

thing. You have to stress, it is not

only a question of the housing here

because they are in real problems,

many of them, addicted people,

unemployed etc and untrained. We

need specialised, tailored support

service, intensive support for the

people who manage because otherwise

they are back on the street again

and it's a combination of a very

good support and a very good

permanent house.

So when they are in

that house, you do what to help

them?

It starts from housing advice,

how we live in this house, then we

make a very personal plan for

everybody, going through their

background and history and their

present situation, and then their

own goals. It is very important they

have the choice to make together

with the personal support person or

their personal plan. Otherwise it is

not motivated and they are not

engaged with it.

Have you been able

to work out, Peter, that in terms of

the maths and money spent whether

more would have been spent if these

people have been left sleeping rough

in terms of the cost to society?

We build units, over 20 in the

country, in the biggest cities. So

we took three of them for research

and it showed that the average

saving for one person accommodated,

if you compare it with the homeless

situation was 15,000 euros yearly

for one person.

OK.

15,000. It's

really logical because you

understand that the persons which

are living outside, you also use

very much of the services. We

compared for example the hospital

services in Helsinki, it was 16

times more than the average person

using hospital services.

Really

interesting figures. Really stark

figures as well. Are there any down

sides.

Yes. Absolutely. But you can

manage them and you have to develop

the contact and the real terms where

we are going forward and it is a

question that how, which kind of

population can it be extended and I

don't think at the moment it's very

easy and it is unnecessary to go to

a larger broader population than the

ones which have the complex, most

high need of support services.

OK.

Back in the West Midlands Andy

Street, what more do you think the

Government should be doing when it

comes to helping people who are

homeless?

Well, what we are asking

the Government to do is to support

this brave initiative is the first

thing and we are hoping for an

outcome of that shortly, but the

Government has said and I say this

is a cross party piece, there has

been the homeless reduction Act

passed before the last general

election which comes into force next

year and it puts more requirements

on local authorities to respond to

this and they have just announced

additional funding for local

authorities to reach it the

commitments under the homeless

reduction Act.

Thank you very much.

Andy Street, West Midlands mayor and

Peter Frederick son, thank you.

Take it or leave it, that's what the

Government's critics say they are

being offered when it comes to the

Brexit negotiations. Our political

guru Norman Smith can fill us and

tell us more. It can be quite

technical this stuff on a day-to-day

basis. Give us the broad outline,

the big picture?

The EU withdrawal

Bill is a bumper Bill, more than 60

pages long. It is the legislative

equivalent of the Yellow Pages. The

Government say it is just a bit of

technical tidying up, designed to

bring all the thousands of EU rules

and regulations covering well

everything from the water we drink,

to the power of our vacuum cleaners

to our workplace rights into British

law. That's what it is designed to

do because otherwise, the fear is we

would disappear down the legal plug

hole because there would be no rules

and regulations to cover vast areas

of our every day life. When it comes

to Brexit nothing is simple and

already, there have been something

like 168 pages of amendments tabled

to this Bill and they include things

like making sure MPs have a

meaningful vote before Mrs May signs

on the dotted line for any

agreement. Also, guaranteeing that

there is a transition period of two

years or more before we quit the EU

and there could be enough Tory

rebels working with the opposition

to inflict potentially damaging

defeats on Mrs May. The stakes are

frankly of a Himalayan height and

Mrs May has in effect accused her

opponents of using the Bill to try

and thwart Brexit itself. The

question is - will they be able to

do it? I think all we know with

absolute certainty is we are facing

fraught votes, late night debates,

and a right old Parliamentary

ding-dong dragging on for weeks.

Can

I just chat with you, Norman, about

what the Brexit secretary offered

yesterday? This idea that MPs will

get a vote on the final Brexit deal,

but then when questioned by a

Brexiteer, look if we vote against

it, does that mean we don't leave on

29th March 2019, David Davis said

yes, we're still leaving. So what on

planet is that a meaningful vote?

Well, the Government would say, it's

a meaningful vote in the sense that

there is going to be a piece of

government legislation to mark this

historic moment of leaving the EU.

MPs will be able to scrutinise it

line by line in minute detail and if

they don't like it, they can reject

it, here is the almighty big BUT,

but if they do reject it, well

tough. We're leaving anyway and that

is why many of Mrs May's critics say

it is in effect putting a gun to

their head and say, "You vote for

this or we're going to leave without

any deal at all." Which they view as

a nightmare scenario. That is their

worst option. One other thing worth

pointing out Vic is the timing of

this. Normally to get a Bill through

Parliament, can take months, but if

this gets very difficult, and the

negotiations go right down to the

wire of the 30th March 2019, there

will be no time to debate and vote

on this Bill before we leave. In

other words we could end up in a

situation of leaving, and then

having a debate about leaving and

that too Mrs May's critics are

unhappy about.

Right. OK. So what

can MPs do now if they are not

happy?

Well, I think the likelihood

we are going to face what Sir Alex

Ferguson called squeaky bum time!

Because it is clear that there are

probably around a dozen Tories who

are deeply unhappy with Mrs May's

plans and if they join with the

opposition parties, it's possible

that on some of the key votes, Mrs

May could be defeated. Now, that

raises the stakes even further

because some Tory MPs are saying

look, if the Government is defeated

on these absolutely key votes, that

amounts really to a vote of no

confidence in the Government because

Brexit is so central to what Mrs May

is trying to do. So if Tory rebels

help to defeat the Government it

could bring down the Government,

pave the way for a general election,

and who knows, possibly a Jeremy

Corbyn government. Now, in a I wa,

that's just sort of strong arm

tactics to try and crank up the

pressure on Tory rebels, but it

gives you a sense of how this could

escalate and as I say, just how high

the stakes are.

Thank you very much, Norman.

Let's talk to a Labour MP who voted

Remain. His name is Pat McFadden.

Would you like that scenario, the

defeat for Theresa May precipitating

a vote of no confidence and then a

general election?

I think listening

to Norman, he has got his finger on

the pulse probably more than any

other journalist, but you get the

impression that this is all a sort

of Parliamentary tussle, you know,

the image I had in my mind ten

people involved, it is a big bun

fight and actually we need to take a

step back from all of that. All of

that that Norman just summarised

reflects the new Parliamentary

arithmetic after the general

election. To me the more important

question is what happens to us in

the future economically when we

leave the EU? And what this is

really all about is Parliament

trying to ensure it has a meaningful

say on those big questions.

If the

by-product that Theresa May ends up

being defeated on various

amendments, and it precipitating a

general election, you would be

happy?

I would rather than a Labour

Government rather than a

Conservative Government. This is

about we were told during the

referendum we would be leaving the

EU to take back control to our own

Parliament and the Government has

been pretty reluctant to give

Parliament any meaningful say and

that's what...

You have got it now,

haven't you?

Well...

Or are you not

reassured by what David Davis said?

What defines a meaningful say, to me

it is the ability to say to the

government, we don't like everything

in this deal. We don't like the term

of this deal. We would like you to

try and change this part or that

part, so you need to have it in good

enough time to have a meaningful

input. If it is between here is what

we managed to negotiate, or no deal

at all, which we all know would be a

Dayser for our economy, that isn't

really a meaningful say, that is a

gun to people's heads really. So, I

think this issue of how Parliament

gets a meaningful say over this will

continue even after the Secretary of

State's announcement yesterday.

Right, OK. I mean, do you really see

this going to the wire?

Well...

In

the final days and hours up to 29th

March at 11pm?

Let's begin with what

the Government have said they want

to achieve. I'm on the Brexit Select

Committee that looks at all this

week in and week out in Parliament

and the Secretary of State has told

us that his ambition is to have the

withdrawal deal, and transitional

arrangement which is basically the

status quo without a say over the

rules...

You hope.

Well, that's the

only transition we will be offered

by the EU.

Right.

And the basically

the outline of the future

arrangements all wrapped up by next

year. That's the Government's policy

aim. So I want to see if they manage

to achieve all that. We went to

Brussels last week, the Brexit

committee and we met with the key

negotiators on the EU side and two

things struck me. One was I expect

the Government to offer more money

between now and this crunch December

meeting in a few weeks' time. I

think...

How much more? £20 billion

is on the table at the minute?

It is

hard for me to put a figure on it,

but I think if the Government wants

to get to the next phase which I

want to get to, they are probably

likely to offer more money, but

that's not actually the most

difficult part, even though it is a

big sum of money. The most difficult

part is what is our future

relationship with the EU going to

be? And the impression I got last

week was, that's less of a

negotiation and more of a pretty

simple decision for us. We can

either remain part of the whole

single market system with all the

market access that gives us or we

can be outside that and there isn't

really, the Government, I think, is

trying to give the impression that

there is a half-way house between

those two and I think we should

think of phase two as this, there is

might be some details to negotiate,

but in the main, it's not so much a

negotiation, as a choice for the

country.

Can I just check with you

as a Labour MP as a Remainer, once

we move to the transitional period,

which implies a bridge to a final

Brexit deal...

Yes.

Would you be

happy to remain in that transition,

ie with the current arrangements

we've got now?

It's the only

transition deal we will be offered.

No, no, I mean forever?

Oh forever.

Well, the disadvantage of...

No, no,

yes or no? Do you want to stay in

transition permanently?

No, I don't

want to stay in transition

permanently, because it is supposed

to be a bridge from A to B.

But as a

Remainor that would suit you surely?

You have got to calculate what the

economic damage is here. The

disadvantage of the transition over

the current status is we don't have

a say over the rules. And that was

also made clear to us when we went

last week.

But you would be in the

single market which you really want?

We would be in the single market

which is something that I think is

very important. We would still have

access to all the rights that that

gives us. We would still be in the

customs union. Basically everything

would be the same except we wouldn't

have a seat at the table deciding

the rules. That's the only

transition deal that the EU will

offer us.

OK. Thank you. Thank you

very much, Pat McFadden who is a

Labour MP and a Remainor. We will

talk to a Conservative MP obviously

in the next hour. Right, the

weather. Here is Lucy.

Good morning.

A less cool day on the way after a

chilly start to the week. We have

milder temperatures, but more in the

way of cloud. There have been some

exceptions to that though. The best

of the brightness certainly in the

south and the east of Scotland and a

few breaks in that cloud like this

photo sent in by a Weather Watcher

in Cheshire. Some blue skies just

poking through there. But further

south, this has been more the order

of the day. A little bit more in the

way of cloud. This photo sent in

from Twickenham in Greater London.

Through the day today then the best

of the brightness certainly across

Scotland. Just feeding into the

north-east of England and the far

north of Northern Ireland as well. A

scattering of heavy showers in the

far north that and there could be

hail in there. For much of central,

southern England and Wales, there

will be plenty of cloud. Mostly dry.

A few outbreaks of cloud and drizzle

where the cloud becomes thick enough

and a few breaks in the cloud here

and there. Temperatures just in the

double figures. Cloudy for Northern

Ireland. Any brightness in the north

and the clearer skies means that it

is a little bit cooler for Scotland

and some breeze, the wind picking up

with the fairly heavy showers.

Through tonight then, the showers in

the north will ease. We will hold on

to the clearer skies across Scotland

and into Northern Ireland and

northern England. Clouder in the

south with rain and drizzle. The

potential to see a few dense patches

of fog developing through tonight.

How quickly they will lift tomorrow,

a bit of uncertainty, but it looks

like we will still see the best of

the brightness in the north.

Northern Ireland into Scotland and

northern England and perhaps just

into the far North of Wales seeing

the brighter conditions tomorrow. It

will turn cloudier into the

afternoon later for north and west

Scotland and some rain pushing in as

well.

For much of central southern England

and Wales, it will be cloudy with

rain and drizzle. Again temperatures

in the double figures. We could see

a few brighter intervals developing

like we have seen today.

Thursday, this cold front sinks

south and east ward. Behind it, it

is starting to see something

brighter. Temperatures again on

Thursday staying in the double

figures in the south and that takes

us into Friday where we will see the

return to something cooler. More in

the way of brightness. The chance of

one or two showers in the north.

Turning breezier as well. And

feeling noticeably fresher.

Thanks, Lucy.

Hello it's Tuesday, it's ten

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story this morning:

it's another crucial day

in the Brexit countdown.

With this bill, it is take it or

leave it time because if they don't

like it, tough. We will still leave

the EU without any sort of deal and

that is nightmare land for

Remainers.

We'll bring you all the details.

A chef has told this programme

she was suspended from work

at a Premier Inn the day

after she complained

of sexual harassment.

We'll hear from woman

concerned and an employment

lawyer later this hour.

And local councils are using

to bailiffs to recover

money they are owed.

Let me know your own experiences

this morning.

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

Inflation - the rate of increase

in prices for goods and services -

remained unchanged at 3% in October.

The rate remains at a five-year high

with rising food prices offset

by a fall in the cost of fuel,

according to the Office

for National Statistics.

MPs will today begin debating a key

piece of Brexit legislation,

the EU withdrawal bill.

It will help turn European laws

into UK ones but opponents including

Tory rebels have tabled

scores of amendments.

Meanwhile a Parliamentary report

is warning a failure to complete

the introduction of a new customs

system by the date of Brexit in 2019

would be "catastrophic".

A Tory activist who says

she was raped has told this

programme that she feels

disappointed, despite

receiving a phone call

from the Leader of the House.

Andrea Leadsom called Lisa Wade -

who's waived her right

to anonymity - last night,

several months after the incident

was first reported to her.

Ms Leadsom said she could not have

acted on the report at the time

because of an ongoing legal case.

Human Rights Watch says the Burmese

security forces have

committed widespread abuses

during what they call 'a campaign

of ethnic cleansing' against

the Rohingya Muslim population.

The organisation said

Government forces have

committed mass killings,

rape, arbitrary

detention, and arson.

More than half a million Rohingya

have fled a military offensive

in the north of the country.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30.

A couple of messages about the

homeless scheme in Finland. With

rough sleepers they are immediately

placing them in permanent

accommodation, so a flat permanently

for ever. No hostels, bed and

breakfast, nothing like that, and

they said it is saving them money.

It is a big outlay but in the end it

saves money society. "Don't Think

this Government would do the same

here, they are callously making the

public worse off with Universal

Credit" says Mike. David, "It goes

to show a more caring socialist

outlook actually saves the Treasury

money in the long and helps

individuals rebuild their lives who

in turn provide more income to the

Treasury. Take note please,

government".

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning.

Now the sport. Italy have failed to

qualify for the World Cup for the

first time since 1958. Even the

veteran keeper was sent into the

attack in injury time. One newspaper

described the result as an

apocalypse. Others want to replace

the manager who hasn't officially

resigned yet.

Wales centre Jonathan Davies will

miss the Six Nations due to a foot

injury. He needs surgery and that

means his domestic season for

Scarlets may also be over. It's a

real blow, he was the Lions player

of the series this year. Jamie

Roberts has been added to the Wales

squad along with Scott Andrews as

cover.

Moeen Ali has recovered from side

strain so will play against

Australia, after getting to know

some of the local wildlife. Ali was

named in the team for the final warm

up match which starts tomorrow.

Commonwealth champion Dan Keatings

says there is a very real culture of

fear within British gymnastics after

some coaches claimed there was

appalling leadership at the

governing body. He said he

experienced bullying and

manipulation during his career as an

athlete. British gymnastics have

encouraged anyone with concerns to

come forward.

And Rafael Nadal has pulled out of

the world tour finals with a knee

injury after losing to David Goffin.

He is the latest player to say that

is it for 2017, I will be back next

year.

Thank you. Let's get more on our

latest story. Let's speak to a

Conservative MP who voted to leave

the European Union, Suella

Fernandes.

Pat McFadden, a Labour MP

who voted to Remain.

And the Belgian MEP

Philippe Lamberts, who is a key

member of the European Parliament

Brexit Steering Group.

How do you view this?

I find the

British government is conducting the

negotiation in a reckless way. The

clock is ticking. Already

negotiating a deal within two years

is a considerable challenge but we

have lost time. You might say she

delivered a grand speech in Florence

but we did not see any of the

intention that she declared

translated into proposition. It is

like delaying tactics, I don't know

how to call that but the things that

worry me the most is the situation

in Ireland. There is an inherent

contradiction by the Government

saying on the one hand we want to

respect the Good Friday Agreement

and on the other hand take the UK

out of the customs union, the single

market and jurisdiction of the ECJ.

That creates a border and on the

other hand you say you don't want a

border. That contradiction is

nowhere near being resolved by the

British government so we have yet to

see a proposal that could fly. I

don't think there is one so we need

to solve that contradiction. I would

say the money is the least difficult

of all the issues and we are inching

towards a deal on citizens rights.

There are number of points there.

Just briefly on the money, how much

is it you want?

You know what, I

don't have any clue as to the

amount. What I want is that the

financial obligations that have been

subscribed by the UK be honoured. We

don't know how much at the moment

because part of it is contingent. If

you provide guarantees and they are

not needed, the money is not needed.

Also we have to be honest, we want

the UK to honour its liabilities but

we have to deduct the amount of

assets. As long as we agree on the

baseline of the principles, I would

go as far as saying let the Nordic

company do the reckoning and say how

much is due by when.

You do have an

idea about the figure because you

know 20 billion is not enough, but

anyway let me bring in a

Conservative MP, Suella Fernandes.

Conservative government is being

reckless because the clock is

ticking, and two the contradiction

from Mrs May on the border. Start

with the reckless point, how do you

plead?

Not guilty. Since the

Florence speech, the negotiating

team have made a lot of progress on

EU citizens. We are now very close

to an agreement. The Prime Minister

has made it very clear.

And Philippe

Lamberts has acknowledged that, what

about the rest of it?

On Northern

Ireland I think again there has been

considerable agreement on the

principles, for example that we want

cooperation between the north and

south, that the Common travel area

should continue to operate, and the

principles of the Belfast agreement

remains sound. I think that's all

considerable progress and we need to

make sure there is that soft border

between Northern Ireland...

But you

cannot have that, we have just

heard, with all of the other things

you want.

I disagree.

It is

either/or.

I don't think a solution

is impossible.

I don't think a solution

is impossible.

Philippe Lamberts?

Nice words, but

everybody wants those things, the

problem is you cannot have the Good

Friday Agreement together with the

border. It is either/or. Or we have

to place the border elsewhere. Is

there preparedness to consider that?

I don't know but we need more than

words, we need concrete proposals as

to how to make this work and that

contradiction I believe cannot be

resolved.

Suella Fernandes?

I think

that is a very pessimistic view.

What is the concrete proposal?

How

do we do this?

It has to be the case

because our position and

relationship with Ireland and

Northern Ireland is very important,

we need to make sure that continues.

Sure, we know all of that, sorry,

what are the practical things that

you would implement that would make

that work?

It is all there. The

Common travel area sets out how this

works already and it's about moving

forward...

For people but not for